Board of County Commissioners | Regular Meeting | November 3, 2025

001regular meeting of the Union County Board of Commissioners to order. At this time, I would like to recognize Commissioner Vice Chair Brian Helms um for to take care of the invocation. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um actually, we have a a guest here tonight and so I would like to recognize Wesley Casayiah from ground 40. Um if you would please sir if you could offer the invocation for us. >> Absolutely. Thank you Brian. Would you guys uh join me in prayer? Holy God uh creator God we call on your name tonight in the name of Jesus the name above every name and in and in calling on you God. We just need some wisdom and some guidance to navigate through this Lord. that you might uh impress upon us your spirit, that we might make

002the right decisions, Lord, that we might agree, that the peace that would be in this room would be so peculiar and so different, Lord. That we would testify that we've been in your presence. And God, we know we need you. We are in desperate need of you. So God, I pray tonight, Lord, that you would that you would hear our prayer and that you would be with your children for the glory of your name in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. Thank you so much. If everyone would please stand for the for the pledge. >> Pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. The next item on the agenda is informal comments

003from the community. We do have a couple of people that have signed up tonight. We will recognize those speakers for informal comments. Each speaker must address the board from the lectern and begin their remarks by giving their name, stating whether they are residents of Union County, and indicating the municipality within which they reside, if any. Each speaker will have three minutes to make remarks. A tone will sound at the conclusion of the remarks. A speaker may not yield his or her time to another speaker. Speakers may not discuss matters which are the subject of public hearings and they must be courteous in their language and presentation. Restatements or repetitive comments by the same speaker whether at the same or separate meetings may be ruled out of order and terminated by the chair. Personal attacks will

004not be tolerated and speakers can leave written comments or supporting documents if any with the clerk. Okay, the first person we have is Jen Sanders. Good evening, board. Jen Sanders, um, resident of Union County, Waxaw. Good evening, commissioners. My name is Jen Sanders, and I'm here on behalf of the families, students, and educators who make Union County strong. Right now, our school system is requesting $2,000 stipen for every teacher. Let's be clear, this is not a luxury. This is a small, practical investment for people responsible for educating nearly 41,000 children every single day. Our teachers are buying their own supplies, feeding students out of their own pocket, and working hours far beyond what they're paid for. They're doing it because of their love of their community and their children. If they can keep showing up

005for Union County, the least that we can do is show up for them. The county manages over $600 million budget. If we can fund capital projects, pave roads, build facilities, support economic development, then surely we can support the educators who build the workforce whose investments depend upon us. This is not politics. This is priorities. When we invest in teachers, we invest in safe communities, stronger schools, local business growth, and the future of Union County families. So, let's be honest. When our boards fight publicly, it doesn't strengthen public trust. It weakens it. Our community expects collaboration, not conflict. Accountability, not fingerpointing, and solutions, not headlines. So, here's the ask. Fund the $2,000 stipen. Stop the turf war battles. and bring the Union County Commission and the schoolboard together with one shared focus, our children. Our county,

006other counties are stepping up. North Carolina's teachers pipeline is shrinking. We need to compete to attract and retain talent and or we'll lose it. Teachers aren't asking for bonuses because they want extra. They're asking because they need the support to keep doing the job that we rely on them to do. This stipen is not charity. It's respect, retention, and responsibility. Union County should never be place a place where teachers f feel undervalued or disposable. Let's send a message to our students, our educators, and every family who calls this place home that Union County invests in people, not buildings. Thank you. >> Thank you. The next speaker we have is um Kelly >> Cynicola. Thank you very much. Commissioners, my name is Kelly Synakola. I'm a resident of Waxaw, a parent and a proud conservative who

007believes in fiscal responsibility, family values, and the importance of strong public schools. In reviewing local and state budgets, one thing is clear. There's a serious imbalance in education funding. 84% of North Carolina's children attend public schools. Yet, an estimated $15.6 6 million in public taxes will leave Union County this year through the state vouchers program to subsidize private schools, [snorts] fueling tuition hikes, and reducing transparency. County commissioners must stand with parents and educators to demand fairness. Advocate for equitable funding and push state leaders to reform a voucher system that diverts money away from accountable public schools. To be clear, I support school choice. Families should have the freedom to choose public, private, or faith-based education. But public tax dollars must be used responsibly. Public school faces strict accountability. Many private schools receiving vouchers do not.

008That's not school choice. It's a misuse of public money. Another budget line that stands out is the economic development incentive 200 million by redirecting a portion of that towards public education. The county can ensure that our schools are adequately funded. As a county, one of our top priorities should be strengthening public education. And if it means ensuring and it and it means ensuring that teachers are paid what they deserve. Supporting public schools is not a political issue. It is a community issue and it aligns perfectly with conservative values. Investing wisely, maintaining strong institutions and protecting the next generation. [clears throat] I have met with several board of education members. They told me the truth. There's no money. And that responsibility lies with you, the commissioners, for failing to make public education the priority it should

009be. Why did you choose to fund only 1,000 of the teacher supplement instead of the 2,000 requested by the board of ed? That difference may not sound like much, but it's costing us great teachers, people leaving the counties that for counties that value and pay them more. This is unsustainable and will lead to a teacher exodus that hurts students for years to come. As a former UCPS employee, I've seen the reality in our classroom. shortages, frustration, and heartbreak. In 2023, speech therapists were given materials that still reference pay phones and telegrams. That's unacceptable. Our educators and students deserve up-to-date resources, not reminders that this county is decades behind. Other counties like Wake dedicated over 57% of their tax revenue to education. Why can't Union County do the same? I urge you, make this, make our

010schools a true priority. rebalance this budget, advocate at the state level, and fund UCPS to compensate our educators fairly, even if it requires a modest tax increase. And I'll say this plainly, if the state and the local agencies choose not to act, conservative parents like myself will hold you accountable at the ballot box. We will elect leaders who value both fiscal responsibility and the education of our children. I encourage you to share this message with our senators and North Carolina assembly because 84% of children in North Carolina attend public schools and 100% of us parents are frustrated and we're growing increasingly more frustrated. We'll hold the both the North Carolina General Assembly and this board accountable and the odds are not in your favor. We look forward to sharing that information with you tonight. Is

011this one on informal comments number two? Okay. Because it was separate from number one. Okay. Harold Schmaker. >> Haven't seen you in a long time. [laughter] >> Right. >> Welcome back to Union County. >> Thank you. It's good to see you guys. Harold Schmaker, formerly of Waxaw. Uh about two years ago, something I think was really incredible happened here in Union County. The BOC voted to ban flidation in spite of the tremendous corporate driven resistance. Kudos to the board. You guys, it was a phenomenal thing. And uh and I really think I'll think about this today. A lot of that credit goes to the people of Union County that were smart enough to get involved and elected you guys here. I think if that vote was today, I know it would be five to zero

012today. Um, so I give you guys a lot of credit, but also the people should get some credit as well. Um, if if the people don't get involved, the corporate interest win by default. Voltater said those that can be made to believe absurdities can be made to commit atrocities. The key word here is made to believe, not choose to believe. Made to believe takes u what it means is intentional manipulation. The way they make people believe is by controlling the language and having approved words to use. Fluoride and fluidation are approved, but the words industrial hazardous waste must not be spoken, especially by the media. The [clears throat] absurdity in this case is that the worst, probably the worst, most dangerous and deadly industrial hazardous waste turns into a nutrient when diluted into the public

013water supply. but only there, nowhere else. If you dump it into a lake or stream, it's deemed a disaster site. Hannah Art, a German philosopher, had a slightly different view than Voltater. She warned 70 years ago that the real danger isn't in into isn't in making people believe lies, but to make them give up on the truth. When I've spoken to other boards around here, uh that's how it seemed like the truth did not matter to them. My request to you is to raise the bar on transparency and disclose the actual product in use to the people so they are aware. Direct your water department and your board of health to issue an advisory on their websites that goes something like this. To residents with water supplied by city of Monroe and Kataba River water

014supply, the product in use is not a foodgrade product or a product designed for human consumption. It is an industrial hazardous waste byproduct diluted into the water supply untreated that contains arsenic and other contaminants. A federal judge has ruled fluidation to be an unreasonable risk to children and the national toxology program has validated studies showing impairment to the co cognitive development of children exposed to fluidation. We urge caution caution for pregnant women and young children. Uh, so no, that's really my request there is to not to give up on the truth. Protect our children over the interests of corporations because that's really what this is about is is waste disposal over the health of our kids. Thank you so much. Good to see you guys. Now it's time for consideration of the agenda and consent

015agenda. If there are no objections, I would like to add the following item to the consent agenda. Adopt a resolution to convey an easement to the to the city of Monroe. Information about this item will be shown on the monitor. Are there any motions regarding um other requests or revisions uh to uh the consent or regular uh business agenda? Madam Chair. >> Yes. Um >> Madam Chair, I'll make the motion that we adopt uh or approve the consent agenda um as modified as well as as published. >> Very good. All of those in favor say I. >> I. [clears throat] >> We are now at the business portion of our agenda. And that will be item 25-695, the Union County Public Schools funding update. I will recognize County Manager Brian Matthews for this item. Thank

016you very much. U madame chair, members of the board, [clears throat] uh previously the board had requested that staff put together some information related to funding and and how that relates to our our partners with in education and UCPS, Union County Public Schools. So, this is meant to be sort of a refresher course on some of the information that we we have and that we use in our budgeting for uh ultimately the adoption of the county's um operating and capital funds. I'll be happy to try and answer any questions you might have. Please stop me along the way if you have questions. This is supposed to be informal. Uh and again, I will answer as much as I can. So, we got to start off sort of at the high level and kind of talk

017about, you know, first off population. What is the population for students? Um, as you can see for UCPS, and this is for all the the schools in our area, but specifically for Union County Public Schools, their um their growth in student population has been modest over the last few years. Uh, it's actually declined a little bit in 2025. um it's grown about a thousand students from 2021 to 2025. Now, what you'll also see is that some of your charter schools have grown in in student population. So, the total from 21 to 25 is about 3,000 new students uh in all of Union County. As that relates to county population, county's population has grown significantly over that same time period. We we've grown by over 20,000 in population in that same time frame. And and again,

018this is uh we are in a high growth area. If you look at the Charlotte market, this is not uncommon for us in Union County and the surrounding counties for us to be in this uh in this higher growth area. So county's population right now approximately 268 almost 270,000 in population. So, how does that relate to funding? Uh, as far as the the county goes, and if the public's not aware of it, Union County is responsible for providing some operational dollars for our education partners, Union County Public Schools being one of them. As well as capital funding, we have to provide some capital funding for them. our total general fund budget. This is what we run and operate all of our departments with the exception of enterprises. Enterprises are our water department and our solid

019waste department. They operate on on fees and rates that they collect. So minus those general fund incorporates all the other departments that we have also the funding that we give the schools. We we roughly have $215 million budget for that purpose. Um that has grown over the years. Started out at around 165 million. It's grown to 215 million. Um as a function of that um we also provide additional um support to our schools. So when I say that our budget is $215 million, what isn't necessarily reflected in the money that we give Union County Public Schools is the amount of funding that we pay for services that are directly related to schools, our uh school resource officers at the sheriff's department, our behavioral health collaborative, and some of the school nurses. All those funds come

020directly out of our general fund. They don't flow to the school system, but we still pay those funds to cover school functions. And that runs about $9.4 million this year. It was a little over 9 almost 9.2 last year. Yes, sir. >> Madam Chair. >> Yes. >> Um Brian, Ju just for clarification, when it comes to SRO's, uh can you confirm that we um that the county has provided funding for a 1:1 ratio? >> Yes, sir, we have. Now, I will not tell you that we have been able to hire a 1:1 ratio. Those are those are sometimes challenging positions to hire. So, I know the sheriff's office is working on that. We do have funding for it, but not necessarily onetoone as far as hires at this point in time. >> Yeah. And I

021know Sheriff Kathy has chimed in on that a few times when we had those discussions that obviously there's very specific training that those officers have to go through. Yes. Uh to serve as an SRO. So, it takes some time, but but as far as the funds being available for those hires, we have funded a 1 to1 ratio. is budgeted for and accounted for. Yes, sir. >> And I'll jump in and say um we did get some um emails uh when schools started um about a month or two ago. Some parents reached out to us. I believe there were three maybe four schools that did not have an SRO, but there was one nearby um like with the middle school and the high schools. >> Sure. and they had hired the SRO, but they were in

022training and would not physically be in the school until like Thanksgiving. >> Certainly. >> So, I I do remember having that conversation with Tony Underwood. Um so, that if they're not already in the school, they should be complete finished with their um SRO training, which SRO training is above and beyond the deputy training. they have to get additional training to be in a school with, you know, with children. Um, and and that was happening. Um, they had been hired. They just were not in the school yet. >> Certainly. Certainly. At the top of this, I also want to point out that we are also responsible for um debt. So, and when I say debt, I mean capital. When we when when we have to have a school is built, we're responsible providing that debt for

023that school. we don't have $150 million sitting around that we pay for a new school to be built or whatever that cost is. So, we go out and we sell bonds to pay for that over time. As you can see, um there is a lot of debt that we have for school construction. This has been a very fast growing county over the years and because of that, we've had to incur a lot of new construction, a lot of debt for that. So right now we're running about $375 million in debt for total functions and schools make up $273 million of that debt. Uh and those are payments that we have to make and and again periodically Union County Public Schools as well as some of our other partners will come to us and say we

024need a new facility and we'll have to figure out how to pay for that. So that number grows over time because we add new debt to that. So then let's talk about what is the actual amount that Union County does pay to Union County public schools out of our general fund budget. So I showed you $215 million was our budget. That's how much we have in general fund. But of that $215 million, $139 million goes towards Union County Public Schools. Um again, that is a significant chunk of funds for how we operate. Um this is uh again that's no small amount and if you will also see below that it it has shows a capital number. a capital number. It it fluctuates every year roughly 19 to 20 million. Um that's generally for um repair

025work, maybe some minor construction work. It's not usually to build a brand new building. It is some what is usually a repair type function. So overall our budget is 160 million plus when you add in the capital. Now you add the $9.4 $4 million that we spend out of our own general fund to cover those other items, school, school resource officers, collaborative health. It's almost $170 million out of our b our budget that we pay for. Um, again, that is a that is a large chunk of of how much money is in our total funds down below. >> Yes, sir. >> Can if I can stop you for one second. [clears throat] So, as far as the um the local well our operating budget versus UCPS here and what we appropriate to UCPS, what percentage

026of our operating budget would that be approximately? Do you know that number? >> I off the top of my head. I'm I don't know it >> for UCPS it'd be about 64%. >> Okay. Thank you, Clayton. >> Thank you, Clayton. So, 64%. Wow. That's I mean, again, that's a large chunk of our budget. Um what you see below is the state actually has a formula for school systems around the state and what is the minimum amount that school system that counties must fund their operating budgets for schools. Uh and there's a there's a formula it's built into the general statutes and essentially it establishes a minimum and then there's some increases that go along with that and you it yields you what that requirement is. As you can see, that number is growing every single

027year. And the number in black behind that is how much we actually give over and above the minimum requirement. Now, here's what's not clear. Every time we raise the amount that we're going to pay Union County Public Schools, that becomes the new floor, the new minimum. So, we're always chasing that number. It is always perpetually going up. It doesn't go down. And that's important because every time we go above and beyond what we're required to fund, we're guaranteeing we're going to pay that and more the next time, the next year. Um, again, that doesn't that means that education is important and we do pay a significant amount towards that. If you can look at the top, I do want to point out that you know while the percentages don't necessarily show uh you know that

028they're great numbers, but between 21 and 23 those increased anywhere from 5 to6 million. In 24 uh to 25 it went up $8 million. From 25 to 26, another $8.8 million. Significant increase in funding uh at during those time frames. That's again does not take into account the 9.4 million that might be in the sheriff's budget or our budget for those other positions that we're funding 100% from that is not being included in that they have to pay. >> That is correct. That is not that is not reflected in that number. That is reflected in our general fund budget. So what is the total budget for UCPS? Because we talk about how much we gave them. So we give them around 13 39 million. Um you know again if you look at their other funding

029sources again that makes up almost $360 million in the FY 2026 and other funding sources. The lion share of that is going to be state public funds. So those state dollars that they get um that is the largest amount. Um next to that of course is your federal grants. If you look at that line has changed significantly from 21 to now. And that's because in 21 and I'm sorry 22 and 23 you had the effects of COVID and a lot of those dollars were coming in at that time that were federal dollars that have now been pulled back and you're back to the a level that's more that will be the standard now. I don't think you're going to see them getting those federal grants in the 8060 to 8000 million range. They're going to

030stay in the $20 million range. In my opinion, you're just not going to see that kind of federal grants. Um the other thing that to to look at this is if you look below, you see the capital funds. Those capital funds, you you see they're all over the place. And they're all over the place because of the way the formula works for capital. A lot of that has to do with past projects that are still being funded. So when you when you see a number that goes from 52 million to 185 million where there's some past projects in there, there are some new bond funded projects that are added in there and that's all making it add up to 185 million. Then it drops down to 137 million because we may have paid off some

031bonds. Those projects that were in there are no longer in there. So you see that capital fluctuate significantly over time. But if you want to look at their true other funds, if you look at that top section, that's the other funds that they receive for Union County Public Schools. So, just talk about um h how that's split up. So, the as I said before, the lion share comes from the state funds. About 51% comes from their state public funds. 22% of their budget comes from us from local sources. 23% is capital. Now, we make up most of that capital. So, when it says 23%, those are most of our dollars. I'm not saying they don't get dollars from other sources. They do. But a lot of that 23% is capital that the county is funding

032for that. And then 4% are the federal grant funds. >> So, it would be fair to say that Union County tax dollars is approximately 45% of this pie chart. It's going to be well it's going to be 40% or greater because I I can't tell you exactly how much we make of the capital but we make up a large share of the capital. >> Okay. >> So local funding how is that split? Um about 57% of the local funding that we provide goes to instructional services and instructional services includes a lot of things. It's a big bucket. It's not just teacher salaries. you know, there are other functions that go into that. School nurses, um some of your um behavioral health folks or what it's a big pot, and I'll show some of those uh

033some of those positions in just a minute, but it's not just teachers. There's a lot that goes into that. And then you have your systemwide support services. And again, there's a lot that goes within that bucket as well. And so, if you look at how it's allocated, 51% of our local dollars goes towards salaries. about 15% goes I'm sorry about 19% goes towards benefits provided benefits purchase services at 20% and then supplies and material at around 10%. Madam chair >> yes >> so Brian I I think this pie chart is uh is actually a really good example. So if I'm looking at the the pie chart to the left of the slide and [clears throat] sorry our monitors aren't working here so we're going from paper. >> Okay. So, if I look at that pie

034chart to the left, my interpretation of this, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is the instructional services, the 57% on that pie chart, that represents classroom. That represents classroom instruction, classroom teachers. >> That that would be my opinion >> to the best of our knowledge. >> Yes, that would be my opinion. >> Okay. And then the 43% that would be support services. So, could could you give me an example? Well, so keep in mind that um inside instructional services also includes support services. I want to go down to where that actually is. So you see that instructional support personnel, school nurses, counselors, media coordinators, those would be included in that instructional line item. Okay. [snorts] So there there's a when I say that bucket is a big bucket, it is. It's not just teacher

035salaries. there's a lot of other stuff that that is inside of that category. Now, again, some of these positions because it's not really defined for us may very well fall into that uh systemwide support services. They may we don't have that level of detail, but what I can tell you is in instructional services, many of those other categories fall within instructional services. >> Okay. Yeah. I I I was just looking here and I mean that's an awful large percentage there, 43% versus 57. >> And so thank you for the uh the clarification. >> Yeah, it and we'll certainly be happy to try and dig into that and get you more defined detail as what makes up 43% versus 57%. I'm just giving you the big numbers right now. >> Sure. >> It's a big it

036it is a big pot. >> So >> thank you. a lot of people. >> So tax rate, there's been a lot of questions about, well, what would it take if we were to fund um the full ask that was requested by the school board? If you recall, that request was around $14.6 $6 million to fund all of their needs, which then included a $2,000 uh supplement increase as well as what they call mandatory pay mandatory increases that that come down from the state and any other program needs. They indicated that that was $14.6 million. The county actually funded $8.8 million of that ask. So they were shy around $6 million, maybe a little over $6 million. >> How did the county reach the 8.8? How did you determine that that's how much the county could

037give Union County for the operating? Because we have to remember that's only that's only part of the budget. Um we're only talking about operating, but we're also giving like 20 million for capital and then 9.4 for other support services. Um, so I think it's very important to explain how the county arrived at $8.8 million. >> So the um the the board had requested that we do a bifurcated tax rate. Um this has been a couple of years ago. It previously um we had a bifurcated tax rate that was back in 1920 21. that bifurcated tax rate did not include all of the education funding. It didn't include debt in it. Um we took a break and we basically lumped everything in one tax rate in 22 and 23 and then in 24 we said you

038know what we're going to go back to a bifurcated tax rate. The board asked for us to do that. That bifurcated tax rate includes education and education is all education. It's Union County Public Schools. the South Pedmont Community College. It's all our it's it's charter schools, all of that. Uh then there's the general fund which is the other portion to that. And when we established a tax rate specific to that, that will yield how much growth that particular um function will get based on what the new tax rate will be and the values. So that's how we yielded $8.8 million. It was the tax rate and the growth and the and the actual tax rate that created that 8.8 million over what was last year's funding. >> But now within the education funding, Union County

039Public Schools has their own tax rate. >> That is correct. So to to your point, while we have a education tax rate which is 26.43, 43 I believe that's what it is within that there is a specific rate for Union County Public Schools and I believe it's like 26.01 somewhere in that range because South Pedmont makes up a very small component of that. So the lion share the greatest amount is Union County Public Schools and it's about 26 cents maybe a little over 26 cents and that's their rate. And if you take their rate and the value change, it yielded them an additional $ 8.8 million in revenue in order for them to operate in this this current fiscal year. >> And when we had our joint meeting with Union County Public Schools and the

040Board of Education back in April, it looked like the prediction was going to be, we informed them, it looked like it was going to be about 8.6 million. That >> is correct. And by the time we got to May and June, we were able to tell them it was going to be a little bit more. We were going to be able to give them 8.8 based on their tax rate. >> That is correct. Yes, ma'am. So, we we we as we refine those numbers, we get better information. As the year goes on, we're able to grow that number just a little bit. It went from 8.6 to 8.8 as the chair pointed out. Um and we made that clear um that those were the the funds that we had available that would not require a

041tax rate change. We could we could provide that level of funding and no tax rate change for Union County Public Schools, no tax rate change on the general fund side of of the of the aisle. >> Um in order to be able to fund the full ask of 14.6, that would have required a tax rate change. Roughly one penny, one penny on your tax rate would have really been required to you to generate the additional $6 million. A penny generates about $6.1 million. We would have needed an additional penny on the tax rate on Union County Public Schools tax rate in order to be able to fund those additional dollars that were requested. [snorts] So after our joint meeting with Union County Public Schools and the board of education, they presented to us that they

042were going to need an additional 14.6 on just the operating and we informed them that their tax rate was going to yield about 8.6 and eventually 8.8. Um, were there any meetings between staff to staff to talk about the gap between the 8.8, their own tax rate, and the 14.6? >> There were and and so I I talked to the the superintendent pretty frequently. We have a a good working relationship. The staff and I met with with them several times. Who when you say staff who was in like who was in >> myself management team our finance Beverly LS our our budget Jason May and then it would be Dr. Hulahan staff usually Sauna Mclam um their facilities director Colon Moore uh there's maybe a couple other but it's typically that that level of staff

043to staff >> and what did you discuss? So, we laid it out very clearly that, you know, we were not going to be proposing a tax rate increase for operating. We were going to be proposing a tax rate increase for capital. The voters voted to approve some some bonds to build new schools and new facilities. We knew we were going to have to have a tax rate change to pay for that. So, we informed them that listen, we're going to request that, but in order to do more, it's going to take a tax rate change. myself and my staff were not necessarily advocating for a tax rate change. I did make it clear to the Dr. Hulahan that if the school board wished to have this additional fund, I thought it would be appropriate for

044them to make a request for a tax rate change to pay for this. It that's what it would require. There's no additional dollars for us to fund this without a tax rate increase. So what I recall was when you informed [snorts] our board was that Dr. Hulahan came back staff to staff and said that the school board still needed that 14.6 on the operating side >> and you recommended or informed him that the new penny rate was $6.1 million. And if he went back to his board, if they could not make do with the additional 8.8, they could get another six to get to the 14.6 with a one penny. And so, um, you informed us that of his request and the conversation staff to staff and that you instructed him to go back and

045talk to the board of education to see if they if they need if they couldn't do with the 8.8 that we could adjust their tax rate one penny to get them to the 14.6. >> So, I I I want I I don't want it to seem I I didn't instruct Dr. >> Oh, yeah. That's my word. I'm sorry. But you told him, you told him he could go back and talk to his board and that's how we could get the additional funds >> if they could if $ 8.8 million was not enough. >> Right. So, I I do want to clarify that ultimately this board has to approve a tax rate change. And and I said and I was very clear that I was not sure whether this board would support a tax rate change

046or not because that would require you to make that decision. But at a minimum, I felt like if the school board needed additional funding, it would be important for them to ask for a tax rate change on their tax rate in order to pay for this because there were no additional funds. We had no other funds other than a tax rate change to pay for this. Dr. Hulan did inform me that um he said he had conversations with with his board and that they were not comfortable with asking for a tax rate change. >> Okay. >> Again, I understand that. But ultimately, you can't fund this on the backs of general fund. >> School board has that they have their own tax rate. We made that clear. We established a bifurcated rate on purpose. If

047you needed additional funds for that, that required a rate change for that. >> What are the pros for why a bifurcated have them having a tax rate? Why is that a good thing when we're collecting taxes? Um why is why is it good for Union County Public Schools to have a tax rate? >> Well, first off, I think number one is transparency. It shows very clearly what we fund, how much we fund for education in Union County Public Schools and all the different functions because it actually lays it out on your tax bill. It shows what our comportion is, shows what your volunteer fire department, it shows debt. So, it lays it out very clearly and what those rates are. So, I think it's transparency number one. Number two, in the past, and I've been

048with the county for about 13 years, some of the arguments that we used to have in the past, >> is that the the the schools would say that we had extra money. We just weren't telling them we had extra money to them. >> And that's because it was all one big pot. And it wasn't clear because it was one big pot. But by making it very clear, these are the funds that support education. These are the funds necessary to operate general government. There is no extra funds. This is what we use to operate and we stay within our budget on our side. And our tax rate for general fund is a lot lower than the tax rate for schools. It's around 11.2 pennies compared to 26 pennies. >> So again, we operate very lean. So

049it was meant to be very clear these buckets are separate on purpose and so I think that's the benefit. You are separating those dollars making it clear where they go. >> Well since I was on the board of education you know starting in 2014 I remember especially and I I regret that um commissioner sides couldn't be here tonight but I know you can you will remember this. They would um we would often refer to true up funds. So, let's say the county had predicted we'd have a 93% collection rate, >> but let's say we got to the end of the year and we had a 98% collection rate. >> Sure. >> That's when we on the school board were like, "Well, where's our 26 pennies on that extra 5% you collected?" >> And we still

050do that now to this day. And so, um, usually about once once a year we'd get two to four million dollars on one-time projects, um, to do in our schools, either on summer break or winter break, um, for them to do one-time projects. Yes. Um, and that would be an additional, you know, two 4 million. >> Absolutely. And just glad you point that out because we still do that and as part of our audit once our audit is complete we get that information and then of course we have those funds available to for school purposes and that number can be it can be a several million. It can be a few hundred thousand. It really depends on what did we anticipate we were going to collect? how much did we really collect and all that's

051factored into what that number is. >> Madam Chair, >> yes, >> ju just to kind of piggyback on your comments there. So, not only um not only is is that uh bifurcated budget uh something that lends itself to transparency, but you know, we were on this board when we discussed that. Um and and one of the things that that we wanted to achieve by doing that was a spirit of collaboration as well. >> Yes. Um, and the way that we always understood that is is that we win together and we lose together. >> That's a good point because if we have a down year, then we all suffer. If we have a good year, we all benefit. Now, fortunately, we had a good year last year, so I expect we'll all benefit and we'll know

052what those numbers are once the audit is complete and we can get that, you know, in front of you. But you're exactly right. we all get the good or we all get the bad. Um and and again it was also about in in as your comment of collaboration, it was making sure that um that our partners at the school understood we're not hiding any dollars from you. The this is the pot that we have to work from. And I think in the past there was some mistrust. There was this your pot's so much bigger. How can you not give us these additional funds? This is very clear where they are and where they exist. Okay. >> But the last you heard was they were they were going to make do with the 8.8 and there

053was no need for us to do the penny tax increase in order to get them the additional $6 million. That was the last you heard. >> Yeah. Our conversations with staff to staff was that, you know, this was all that that we could, you know, provide in additional um the staff, the superintendent, and his staff understood. They felt they could build a budget around that. Obviously, they wouldn't get everything they were asking for. We even talked about what kind of supplement would that potentially >> provide. Um I think a thousand was thrown out there. Um but again it was made clear this is all we have unless there's a tax rate change. >> And at the June 2nd meeting um when Union County Public Schools were here um they even said that they would graciously

054accept the 8.8 above what they had gotten the next year and they would make do. And I believe Commissioner Christina Helms and I, we had a a dialogue that, you know, if you do the $2,000 supplement, then, you know, so be it. But it you're not going to be able to do it's going to take up most of that $8.8 million. So, you might not be able to do anything else on on your request. That's correct. But if you do the $1,000 increase, then you would be able to do some of the other projects on your request. And so we left it, you know, assuming that they would at least do the 10,000. That was the June 2nd meeting. >> Yes, ma'am. I think that was one of the questions and the comments that were

055made at that meeting. And and my understanding is in order to fund, now I'm going to talk about this in just a minute. So, in order to fund the 1,000, sorry, the $2,000 supplement, it was roughly about 7.8 million almost $8 million to fund that. Now, what you'll see is that's not just teachers. Um, that's that's a lot of other staff other than just teachers. So, that money really if it was just teachers would be lower. be less than that. If you just funded a supplement for teachers only, not the other support staff, then that would be a lot less than $7.8 million. >> And the North Carolina ranking at number 37 in the state is just classroom teachers. And >> that's my understanding, >> right? And that was a big part of the discussion

056that we had at the June 2nd meeting is, you know, do the 10,00 or the 2,00 and we clarified this will just be for CL classroom teachers that have a roster take attendance and assign grades. >> Yes, >> that those are the words that I heard that came from the board at that time, the the board of commissioners. Those are the words that I heard. So, you just mentioned this and then I want to kind of talk about like where do we stand with supplements go? Um, so the the latest information we have is that there are a little over 2,438 teachers approximately in uh Union County Public Schools that would potentially receive a supplement. Um, the current average supplement in Union County is $6,341. So, I want everyone to understand that's an average. Not

057every teacher gets $6,341 in a supplement. It depends on your tenure. So, if you're a two-year teacher, you're going to get less. If you're a 20-year teacher, you're going to get probably close to what the maximum is, if not the maximum. So, there's a sliding scale and it really depends on your tenure and how long you've been a teacher as to what you get for that supplement. What we were talking about all along was an additional $1,000 or $2,000 that all teachers would would receive. That wouldn't be a sliding scale. It would be if you got 5,300, you'd now get 6,300. Or if you got 2,000, it would be 7,300. It would be no well it's a th000 on average some get 800 some it was $1,000 extra on top of what it is or

058if they did the 2,000 if the school board decided to do that it'd be 2,000 total. So sometimes there's a misunderstanding that well first off are you just giving the teachers $1,000? No. It'd be $1,000 on top of what they already receive in a supplement which is a local supplement. And I'll I'll just point out this is the information that we were provided at our joint meeting in April. This is the information that we have been provided from the North Carolina Association of County Commissioners and DPI. And so this is the number of teachers and this is the average supplement. >> That's correct. Yes. >> Okay. >> So I talked about this before at the um finance. Yes. >> Commissioner HS. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, if you can go back to the other

059slide, Brian, I just got a and maybe this is a dumb question. Why are the numbers different? So, we've got number of teaching positions here, 2458, and then teacher number >> receiving supplement of 2438. >> I honestly don't know the answer to that and I'll be happy to try. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> I don't know that there's a I can certainly try to find that out. >> Yeah. Thank you. So, um, at the finance committee meeting for the, um, for the school board when they talked about this most recently, they laid out the the plan for the the supplement increase for teachers. And you can see that there's two categories. There's instructional personnel certified, and that's really the classroom teachers. Those are the the teachers who have children that you know that they

060teach on a daily basis. And then you have your support personnel and those make up about seven categories there. And my understanding is is that those two c those two uh groups add up to about $3.8 million. So, in order to fund $1,000 of a supplement increase for all of the persons within those positions, it adds up to a little over $3.8 million. Now, to fund just the teacher portion of it, that very top category there, it's about 2.44 almost $2.5 million to fund just the teacher portion of it. So, again, you know, about $1.4 $4 million of those funds are going to cover other instructional personnel. So, just be aware of that, >> which is what they often talk about, certified staff. So, when we're talking about teacher supplement and then you hear certified

061staff, those are two very different numbers. >> It's my my understanding is you're absolutely right. They are two different categories. Even though they're certified, they're one's instructional support, >> one is instructional personnel >> in classroom teacher. >> Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Uh this is uh straight out of the county association. Um this is for 2425. We don't have the 2526 data at this point in time, but I I want to this is I think a telling statistic here >> in all of the state of North Carolina, Union County is number six in total education funding for public schools >> For K12. Yes, ma'am. So if you think about it, of all 100 counties, we are the sixth as sixth highest for providing uh funds for K through 12. Now we're the eighth largest population in

062the state, but we're providing the sixth largest. And keep in mind, who are the top what we're talking about? Wake, Meckllinburgg, Durham, Guilford all have populations well in excess of 400,000 up to a million people. Our population is 268,000 and we're sixth in the state for total funding. >> And it's not including that 9.4 for being one to one in SRO and the psychologist and the social workers. So that 9.4 is not even factored into this ranking. No ma'am. So we'd probably be higher than number six in the state. >> We be the the difference between six and five is pretty significant. We we we'd have to jump a lot. That's fair. That's fair. But we would definitely hold on to number six pretty easily. >> Uh what you also see is what is our

063rank on what's called ADM. I believe that's average. Yeah. I say per per pupil or they call it membership. >> Um we're 22nd. And again, you think, well, gosh knows, we're number six for total educa, total funding. Why are we number 22? And and honestly, a lot of it just has to do with all the other things that are funded within the school system. It's just you look at all of that plus the number of students and it that's why we add up to number 22. I don't have the formula for how they calculate it. Uh it's an again I wish we were a lot higher based on the amount of money that we actually give for funding for schools. U but this is the this is the nature of what we have. >> So

064[sighs] and and we've sent some questions to UCPS and I'm not sure that we got those answers back for tonight's meeting. But one of the thoughts that I had when I saw that our students were number 22 in the state per pupil was um could it be that Union County Public Schools based on their enrollment each year gets an aotment. They get an aotment for teachers, principles, assistant principles there, you know, they get money for the superintendent. Um, but there are a lot of positions like for assistant principles that maybe the state doesn't fund, but Union County funds them 100%. So there's a lot of employees on the payroll at Union County Public Schools that they feel phil philosophically feel like, you know, in order to be a good school system, we feel like we

065need these assistant principles or whatever the position is. Certainly. >> And so we have chosen to pay for those 100% out of tax dollars, out of our local tax dollars. >> Yes. Well, our our budget, you're absolutely right. So, our the the funding that we give to um to Union County um public schools, if you saw that number of, you know, it's 51% or whatever that goes to salaries. Salaries isn't just supplements. >> It's because we do fund some the salary of some positions that are in the school system much like we do for the judicial where we fund some assistant DAs. we fund. They're still considered state employees, but our dollars really go to pay that paycheck. >> So when the state has an increase on, you know, whether it's healthc care or cola

066or whatever, >> you have to fill that, >> then we have to do that increase for the positions that we said we would fund for the schools. >> That is correct. And again, that's that man that's some part of that mandatory increases that we now have to fund because those benefits have increased. we now have to make up for those benefits that that come with that. >> Okay. >> So, that is very possible how that number is is just fluctuates. >> And then of course there's the number that fluctuates out there that that's out there about well we're we're 37th when it comes to teacher supplements. >> And again, as you can see, well, we're number six in total funding for Union County Public P public school. when the county sends the money, we're we're

067number six in the state. >> Number six in the state, but we're number 37 when it comes to teacher supplements. And really what that boils down to is we don't always control where those dollars go. Those funds we give to the school system. They make the decision on how to allocate those funds. We don't necessarily get in the weeds and say you have to give it for this or you have to give it for that. Now, we have conversations with staff about what are the programs they want to fund. >> Well, by state law, we're prohibited from voting on their line items. >> I will defer to our attorney on that one. >> I believe it's North Carolina General Statute 115C-433b. >> That's correct. [laughter] >> Okay. So bottom line here is is is you

068know when it comes down to the budget you know we fund a a pot >> and essentially that pot is then divvied up and it goes towards a lot of different things when schools go programs it goes to some salaries it goes to supplements there's a lot of use that goes into that and so I I think it is very important to know that we do take for take very seriously our role role in funding public education K through 12 for our Union County, >> which is why 49% of our local tax dollars go to Union County Public Schools. >> Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. Um this is just a a showing you back in unfortunately this is for uh 2023. I don't I don't have it for any for um today, >> but just looking at

069where we compare as far as supplements go. Um, you know, there was a time where we were 22nd back in 2122. Uh, then we got to 32nd in 2023. We dropped as far as that goes with supplement goes. And that really is compared to what is everybody else doing with supplements around the state. >> Well, and I'd like to touch on that because during COVID, um, the general assembly changed the formula is my understanding. And so, um, some of the counties that could not, um, provide a great supplement, the state pitched in to help those counties raise their supplement and they did not help counties like Union County. So, it was like we were almost penalized by this formula because we were in a position to fund our our teacher supplements. And then there's some

070counties that couldn't and so the state pitched in and jacked their teacher supplement up which made ours go down. >> Yes, ma'am. You you're absolutely right. The and and there is a um formula for how the state will fund supplements that come on from state dollars. >> Um you will see that what is reported here on this particular one is local dollars from Union County. So that five that is of course not this year. But the $6,341 that that is the current supplement that's local dollars. That's that's not a that's not a state supplement. The state does offer that for some school districts. I don't know that Union County receives any of that of Union County Public Schools, but they there is a formula where some uh schools and some their teachers can qualify for

071that. Um, that's kind of a segue for me to point out that really, if you look at it, this is local dollars that we're going to make up for teacher salaries. This is my opinion, but my opinion is who is responsible teacher teacher salaries is the general assembly. That's really who should be paying teacher salaries. We all pay taxes. Our taxes all go towards teacher salaries. But here, our local folks are having to pay additional taxes in order to make sure teachers are funded appropriately. I'm gonna say that that's really who we should be talking to is why isn't our general assembly funding teachers at the level that they should be funding them across this country? The local levels are continuing to be squeezed over and over and over again to pay more tax dollars

072to fund teachers when really that's a statewide function. I'm not saying that that's going to change, but that's just my opinion. >> And year overyear, we've always given more to the to Union County Public Schools than the formula even mandated. And over the past couple of years, it's been an additional 8 to9 million that we didn't necessarily have to give except for the fact we gave them a tax rate a few years ago. And in the event there were addition there was a higher collection rate, then they would be able to do more projects during the summer and winter breaks. >> Right. And and as you >> with onetime money, >> that's what I was going to point out. That's one-time money. So, the reoccurring dollars we give them, that's every year. That's built into

073a reoccurring tax rate. Those those trueup funds are one-time funds. They're not necessarily going to come the year after that or the next year, but they are available, say if you got a construction project or if you you need to buy a new band uniform, something. There's it's available for those kinds of one-time purchases. >> And and the county has fully funded that. I remember when we added that um on capital when I was still on the board of education uh for the band uniforms, you know, for one school to rotate through, you know, and do that, you know, pick have a school each year and do that. Um in addition to middle school sports, you know, that was added in the budget. So, um, so Jason K, I think, um, I I just want

074to clarify there was a statement that the board of county commissioners did not vote for or fund the $2,000 supplement increase. I just want to get advice from council. Is this board allowed to vote on a 1,000 or a 2,000 or a $5,000 supplement increase? >> The state statutes on this issue indicate that you can vote down to the spec specificity level of the function budget code. The function budget code for this type of allocation is significantly broader than just teacher supplement. It applies to uh regular instructional services, which is is quite a broad category. I'm not a school budget person. Um but uh it's quite a bit broader than that. That's a specific as you can get by state statute. >> So down to that line item >> function actually not even line item.

075>> Yeah. Yeah. down to this line item by general statute. We can't vote on that. [snorts] That that's up to the board of education to vote on that after they get the money that we funded them. >> That is correct. They have the responsibility and the authority under state statute to allocate that into more minute pockets of budget monies. We have to keep it at a fairly high level. And I would add that's not just in Union County, that's throughout the state. uh you'll find a lot of school of government materials for example on this exact subject. There have been times uh where folks have tried to do that and there have been court uh issues elsewhere in the state on here in Union County. >> Are there any other questions or comments from um

076commissioners? >> I have one. Commissioner Helms. >> Um, Manager Matthews, earlier this year, the county went through each department, and I apologize. I can't remember the the terminology, but Doge, each department, >> we're still working on >> I and I understand that. Um, has that been offered to Union County? Because sometimes we come kind of complacent even, you know, because the same eyes are looking at the same thing over and over again. Can we offer that to Union County Public Schools? >> We can absolutely offer it. We have not offered it. No. >> Can we offer it to all the departments that would like to have it? Can we make that publicly known that if they would like to have it, >> we would more than welcome? >> I think director of strategy and innovation

077would say that we are we are getting outside of our comfort zone mainly because they're not a department. They're their own separate entity, right? and and that is that you're now that doesn't mean that we can't certainly offer assistance and offer our help. I don't want anyone in here to think that Union County Public Schools doesn't have the expertise no I'm not mentioning that at all. >> They absolutely have the expertise to do this on their own and and I don't want it but if if if they want assistance with with us, we're happy to offer our help uh in any way we can. As I've said before, the staff and I uh we have a good relationship with Dr. Hullean and his staff. We do work very well together. We're very open and transparent

078about what we can do, what we can't do. Uh and then from there, ultimately budgets have to be adopted. Board of Education has to give their request. You have to decide what it is that you can fund. Uh and in the end of the day, that's the best we can do. Well, [clears throat] and and let me say this, and the reason I mention this is because I was asked multiple times if the county was going to do this just in general, and if we were going to offer that services to other departments, if you will. Um, so I just wanted to get it on record that we will offer this. If they chose to take us up, that's fine. If they don't, that's fine. But it was offered. >> Yes. >> Please and thank

079you. >> Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Any other questions for me? >> Yes, sir. Um, manager Matthew, the teacher assistants, were they included in the bonus round? >> It is my understanding they were not. >> Was there any reason given for that? >> I'm not aware of of how that the the the categories were selected. >> Okay. You know, I think they're very important in the classroom to people I know who are teacher assistants are typically moms of of children in the schools and are very invested and and put forth the full effort. It's troublesome to me that they would not be included in the bonus round. >> Sure. And when I was on the board, teacher assistants were identified as so important that we offered a pipeline for them to go get their teacher certification

080through like Wingut University or whatever so that they could work towards having their own classroom one day. Um, so that that was a conversation we we had a lot about the importance because a lot of teacher assistants may have gotten that calling later in life and they really wanted to be in a classroom and, you know, help kids with their reading or their math and um but just didn't get that degree in college or didn't go to college. Any other Okay, Commissioner Helms. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, Brian, just some comments, no real questions for you. I I appreciate the information that you shared. >> Yes, sir. >> You know, I I think this is where we are. Um, and I think that this issue that we're experiencing between our board, board of education,

081UCPS, there's probably one word that defines a lot of it, and I would I would say that word is misleading. And [clears throat] I think there's been numerous problems that have brought us to where we are currently. U the first problem I think is the emission of key facts. I mean we've discussed this before that um there were obviously emails sent to teachers um from some you from from some UC uh PS staff and those emails were misleading. Those emails um misrepresented uh this board's support of our public school system and it told teachers halftruths. Uh the message that was heard was that our board didn't fund a $2,000 supplement increase, but it failed to mention our support of at least a $1,000 supplement increase that we did fund from the taxpayers of Union County.

082Problem number two, and this is a big issue for me, and and that is who is set to receive the supplement increase. So, the funds have been released. So, we adopted our budget, second June meeting. The funds have have been turned over to UCPS at this point. And we saw tonight that we have at least we think uh about 2458 59 20 2500 teachers >> approximately in the school district and I think that the the problem was that our board and and I don't I'm not speaking for our board but it's my understanding that our board was under the impression from UCPS that the goal was to pay classroom teachers Now, this was discussed in our June meeting, uh, June 2nd when we conducted the public hearing. Um, Reverend Benson was here, Shauna was here,

083and so our interpretation was that these funds were going to classroom teachers who are in the classroom working with the kids, doing grades, report cards, you know, the whole nine yards. And you know, just doing some simple math, my my kids would probably say the math ain't mathing because I mean, we look at this and we say, "Okay, well, if we're going to offer a $1,000 supplement increase and we have roughly, you know, $2500 teachers and that's 2.5 million." Again, simple math. And under simple math, again, if you offer a $2,000 supplement increase, then well, you double that. So you're looking at just south of 5 million. And you know, so the county we we've we were afforded uh the opportunity to provide an additional 8.8 million over um last year's operating budget. And my

084my question is well maybe I do have a question. I I would question this that you know the 14.6 six that was asked. I realize that there's probably some state things and there are some requirements. >> Sure. >> But I look at this and I think, okay, well, you know, if if if truly, you know, paying those teachers is our goal here, then we've afforded that opportunity. Maybe I'm looking at it too simply. But then I watched the October finance committee meeting and it was discussed in there that of course these funds are not going to just classroom teachers that it's going to be awarded to and you showed this slide up there earlier but classroom teachers, master teachers, school nurses, school counselors, media coordinators, psychologists, social workers, curriculum facilitators, EC specialized services. And listen,

085I understand I understand that we've got important folks that work for UCPS, but again, the goal as presented to our board was classroom teachers. And I share Commissioner Balkam's concern about the TAs because I'm I'm looking at this and I'm like, okay, well, I thought maybe we discussed it, but I don't see pen to paper here. And the TAs are the backbone of our elementary schools and they're among the lowest paid. That's true. Um, so I I I think that, you know, we have to take a hard look at that. But problem number three, um, and this is something that has bugged me since this whole discussion began. And that is who promised UCPS staff $2,000 supplement increase. That's what I want to know. I want to know who made the promise because I think

086the interpretation from our staff and our teachers is that this promise was made or it was even a state mandate which is not true. This is something that our boards had discussed, you know, for a local supplement increase is something that we were trying to get to. It's something that we were trying to, you know, do for our teachers because we realize that they're important. And, you know, again, this is just me. I've always believed that your word is your bond. If you make the promise, you write the check. And so, >> yeah, who made the promise? So, you know, again, we as boards, we engage in multiple conversations during budget discussions. Um, we had our joint meeting April 2nd. Um, you know, we were very transparent in the fact that we have 8.8 million

087to provide >> above or correct above uh last year's operating budget. >> Yes. Um, this year was no different. There's always heavy communications and uh throughout the process I feel like our board was very forthcoming, you know, about the funds that we have. And again, this is not a state mandate. This is local funding worked into our budget because we are hearing from our board of education. We are hearing that, hey, you know what? We need more for teacher retention. That that's a problem. Okay, teacher retention. And listen, we went through something kind of similar with our county staff not too long ago with comp with comp studies. So, I've been scratching my head because I wanted to know, well, you know, who made this promise and you know, I I thought that this was

088kind of telling is I saw this uh this post dated May 13th from Dr. Hulahan um where he posted on X or Twitter uh where he shared a WSOC um article, but he captioned it with the following and it says Union County School Board approves, key words approve, $141 million budget with boost for teachers. I think that this statement is misleading and I think it's misleading to the general public because [snorts] as I understand it and please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, um the board of education adopts their budget and they obviously have a request for local dollars. >> Sure. and we coordinate and we collaborate with the board of education as partners and but that is a part of the budget that this board adopts. >> Yes sir. So

089every year the school boards are required across the state to submit their budgets to the county for funding. So the the school board obviously they don't generate their own revenue. They get it from other sources. So, in order for them to adopt an official budget, they have to know what their revenue sources are going to be. And they don't know that until you adopt your budget or approve your budget. That gives them their funding. That's local sources. Now, they get state sources, federal sources, and those have their own, you know, timing issues. But you're absolutely right. Those that the decision for what's funded comes from another entity. And and I only bring this up because I think that there's a general misunderstanding, you know, amongst the public that, you know, they adopted this, they approved

090it, so it must be true, but there's more to it than that. >> Right. There's another entity that has to be involved in that. >> Correct. And to be fair, um, you know, they they vote on their budget. That's a recommended uh or requested budget, you know. Um, and so again, it takes more collaboration than just one board working in singularity. >> Yes, sir. >> And I'm glad that you brought up the uh the sources. So, problem number four, I look at this and I say I think that another issue is funding. So, you know, UCPS, they have a budget that's accumulated from three sources. And we talked a little bit about that. Um, obviously state dollars, they get a little bit of federal dollars and then they get local dollars from Union County. And

091we saw, you know, the budget numbers. So UCPS has a total budget. If you look at FY25, I think it was 628 or 29. And they're they're looking at 611 I think this year. And this is this is just estimation to the best of of our knowledge. Correct. >> That's this is what was the information we had available from Union County Public Schools. So if you see 611 and that's capital, understand that has capital in it as well. >> Total budget. Absolutely. Yep. So we're counting in capital and operating. >> Um but in contrast, you know, I think that it's important for everyone to understand that the county has well we build our budget from really a singular source even though it's three buckets. So we have utilities and we have sales tax and we

092have property tax and that is the lion share of what constitutes a county budget. >> Yes. >> But ultimately that comes back to the resident. It goes back to you know the regular old taxpayer or the guy that's on water and sewer. >> Sure. So, um I think a key point uh that was brought up tonight is that um you know that um that pie chart there that shows that um you know where you've got 57% you know instruction and then 43% for support staff. I mean that's that's getting close to a 1:1 ratio. I mean we're starting to to get into that middle ground. And I want to be clear, you know, this year especially this this county has faced a lot of challenges. We faced challenges with the reassessment process that was required

093by state law, by the way, >> state mandate. >> Yeah. And um and you know, the the home values were determined by state formulas and things like that. And but the point of it is is that that process was largely out of this board's control. >> Yes. >> What was within our control was tax rates. And so in the middle of all that, we've got um you know, a school bond that this board pushed through that that we approved to put on the ballot. Okay? So we put that out there. We took a vote to put that out on the ballot. And you know, that school bond uh would essentially finish up the Forest Hills cluster and it would also allot money for design work at Parkwood. >> And to be clear, the voters approved

094that bond. So, it went out for for vote and the will of the people is is that they give us a thumbs up >> and if we had not supported that, it would not have gone on the ballot. So, this board supported that when the schools asked for it and we allowed it to be put on the ballot. >> Yeah. But what folks might not remember in all of that was that the initial projections of the cost and now granted there there were a couple of bonds okay this is not just UCPS but SPCC was on there too >> but the initial projections for that was 5.15 cents over revenue neutral tax rate. >> Yes sir. >> So that was our best estimation at that point in time. And uh and I would credit, you

095know, you and your staff uh because staff here at the county work diligently to reduce that bond's impact on the tax rate >> to 1.82 >> 1.82 >> cents over revenue neutral. So we went from 5.15 to 1.82 and you showed the the value of a penny up there earlier. So the value of a penny is just north of 6 million. >> Yes, sir. So you can do the math and you know judging by just simple math here what we did is we cut essentially 18 to 20 million somewhere in that range. >> Now I I know that you know the >> the value of penny changed >> but the point of it is is that we made as much difference in that tax rate as what we possibly could. >> Yes sir. And at

096this point, any, and I stressed this, any additional operating funding, any funding like that is going to increase the tax burden on the county taxpayers even further. And if we were to fund if we were fund another six million, then that's one penny. >> That's another penny that everybody that pays taxes in this county is going to have to pay. [snorts] So, at some point it becomes counterproductive to tax the residents and when I say the residents, it also includes the teachers, all right, that live in this county. >> Sure. >> More than what the supplement increase is going to provide. And again, I understand that that's going to be different for everybody because it depends on your home value. But um the difference of a,000 or $2,000 in my opinion is within the control

097of UCPS because going back to my statement earlier, who writes the checks? UCPS writes the checks. The difference that we're talking about tonight [snorts] represents one half of a percent. Not even a full percent, one half approximately. and and that's compared to their total operating budget. And I think this whole this whole thing kind of begs the question is do your priorities line up with your budget? And what I mean by that is is if we are currently number six in overall funding operational and capital and um I've I think we've got what 115 school districts. >> Yes. >> So 115 school districts in the state, >> but we're 37th in teacher pay. And if if teacher pay is our top priority, which is what we heard, we've heard this time and time again >>

098and we agree >> and we also agree to that. Correct. So we are in the same boat here. Okay. But if teacher pay is our top priority and the county can trim what we trimmed out of our budget, I think the UCPS is incumbent upon them to find 2 and a half to three million. All right. especially when their budget is roughly the same size as ours. >> So, we're already meeting them halfway. And you know, I I went back to Dr. Hulahan's Twitter and ex account um and I found this on October 11th and I and listen, I want to I want to be clear. I couldn't agree more with Dr. Hulahan, our superintendent, when he said on October 11th, he said, "In life and leadership, I have learned a lot. One key lesson

099is one key lesson. If it's important, you'll find a way to make it happen. No excuses. Again, I agree completely. The truth of the whole thing though is is this is that UCPS receives um funds from local government, but that's the taxpayer. That's you, the taxpayer. And they receive funds in a big bucket of money. And in my opinion, the 8.8 that we provided, you know, could is it's at their discretion to provide a 1,000 or $2,000 increase for the 2458 teachers that we have. UCPS is in control of that. Again, they write the check. The pie is only so big. Okay. The pie that we have to work with is only so large. And there's only a couple of ways to make that pie bigger. >> Yes, sir. So, we either increase the taxes

100or we cut the budget. My challenge to UCPS is, have you cut the budget? Have we cut? Have you looked for those opportunities? All right. One penny on the tax rate. That's on top of municipal taxes that you might pay. That depends on your assessed value of your home. And that is for every taxpayer in the county. I I'm not going to vote to support additional tax increases at this point in time. I think we've been through enough already and we have to live within our means. All right. UC UCPS has to live within their means, too. The county has to live within ours. The schools have to live within theirs. Thank you, >> Commissioner Balkam. Commissioner Helms. I just want to say that when we had this conversation June 2nd when the board of

101education chair and the CFO, I fully believed on June 2nd that they would do the 1,000 or the 2,000 supplement increase for under 2500 teachers, classroom teachers. And if you go back and look at the video, we we talked about what, you know, classroom teacher. Yes. Classroom teacher. Yes. and for and had had the $1,000 supplement increase been done when the state passed the mini budget the end of July and we just assume they they did the supplement increase that would have moved Union C Union County Public School teachers from number 37 to number 17 or if they had done the $2,000 increase which would have been like $4.8 $8 million or let's just say $5 million, it would have moved us to number 11 in the state and they would have had $3.8 million

102remaining after after doing that. And so, you know, when the teachers started sending us screenshots of the Q&A of what was floating around the schools, the emails, minutes, um, teacher comments, principal comments, um, things that the principles were going into staff meetings and saying, um, it that was October 2nd and it completely blindsided me because I didn't know the teachers had not gotten their supplement increase from June 2nd to October 2nd. I didn't know it didn't happen, but that's the nature of board to board. Um, you know, we we funded, you know, for them to make the decision which one to do and we thought that it was going to be done. So when we when teachers started sending us information on October 2nd, didn't know it hadn't been done. And so I immediately reached

103out to the superintendent. He said he would have that information corrected. Um I reached out to three different board members, didn't hear back. Um and you know, and it just went from there. So, um, you know, it was important for this board, for me, you know, for every all five of us to know the supplement didn't happen after the mini budget was build the end of July. They and Dr. Hulahan didn't know when it would happen because they wanted to wait on a state budget, but this was a county supplement that we assumed was going to the teachers to go from number 37 to maybe number 17 or number 11. And you know, I'm very thankful that teachers and staff feel comfortable letting us know what what's being said in these meetings because we had

104no idea that it didn't happen. We we thought that when we voted on this budget in June that it happened. So as as um so I'll just end there. I I definitely thought we were going to make progress by going to number 17 or number 11. I'm sad it didn't happen. I hope that it happens um in November and I hope that it gets retro um back to July. And again, that would have left almost $4 million remaining from the additional 8.8. And if there was additional collection rate, they would be getting that too >> on their tax rate. >> Yeah. Um but at the end of the day um we offered a way for them to get to the 14.6 and it was sent back to us. They didn't want to do that. So

105um we thought we were being good stewards. We thought we were being good partners. Um no one reached out to me and said um that they had a problem with the 8.8. Um I never got a phone call. I don't know if anyone else got a phone call that they needed additional money. Um that, you know, the 8.8 wasn't going to work. They demanded the 14.6. But staff to staff clearly had these conversations. Um so I want the county manager, but I'm going to go to Jason K. Um, so the bo the board of education chair indicated one that they wanted us to put this on the agenda. So we have um we also reached out to see if we could have a meeting chair to chair and vice chair and vice chair and that

106hasn't been able to happen. That didn't happen either. Um, if e if we wanted to do a tax increase, one penny to give them the 14.6, would we be able to do that in October or or would we be able to do that in November or December by state law? Would we be able to increase taxes to get them to the 14.6? I think there there's a lot that went into that question, but the the basic part that I'm focusing on is can we midbudget cycle engage in an effort to increase taxes in order to increase the amount provided to UCPS? Uh and I think my basic answer is I would like to research that. My uh initial thought is that there are some statutes at work regarding budgets that generally you cannot do that

107but I would uh ask for some time to uh research that a little bit more thoroughly uh in order to answer that question accurately >> because before that answer it was shared with us that we couldn't do an increase midstream. I'm no attorney, but I will tell you from the manager's perspective, it has always been under the the guise that you cannot raise the tax rate midyear. Now, our attorney may find some language in the general statutes that allows it. I'm not an attorney. I'm just telling you from the manager's perspective, we have always operated under once you have a tax rate, it is the tax rate for that year. >> Yeah. And and I will add that the inverse of that, the ability to decrease a school's budget midyear is uh not permitted by

108statute, okay? Unless there is a general decrease of the overall county budget in which uh the local school system has to participate because you have some sort of revenue issue that's countywide. Um but that does not necessarily speak to the the question of the opposite. Can you increase by raising taxes? Again, I'm I'm I'm doubtful on that, but uh without having an opportunity to research that a little bit further, I don't want to be definitive. >> Okay. >> Are there any additional questions? And if there's additional information that the board would like from UCPs because obviously we're giving you the information we have available and UCPS did respond to our request. They they gave us um a lot of information. I followed up with some additional questions that I have. They have not had a

109chance to get those um those questions answered yet, I don't think. Um but if there's additional questions, please let me know. I'll be happy to get those and and work with their staff to to get that information for you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> The next item on business is item 25-684, the state budget update. Um, I will recognize county manager Brian Matthews and have a seat. You've been standing for a long time. >> So, on this particular one, we have provided um some information to you. It's at your seat. It honestly what we would ask is that you look over that um you come back with us any additional questions you may have and we'll be happy to answer those for you. Don't really have a presentation. is really just

110looking for if you have any additional questions or any input you want to give us related to this information. >> I really appreciate this information um because we at our last meeting we did ask you um to to outline for this board to understand what was past the end of July. So thank you very much for providing this board um a state update. Yes ma'am. The next item of business is item 25-681, appointments to boards and committees. There is one vacancy to fill on the Union County Juvenile Crime Prevention Council, the Chief of Police position. I will now entertain a motion for a nomination to this committee. >> Madame Chair, >> yes. I'd like to make a motion that we nominate William Rhett Bolan for this position. >> Is that sufficient? >> Okay. There. Any

111other? All those in favor of the motion say I. >> I. >> Very good. And that brings us to the end of business. I will now recognize the county manager >> [laughter] >> um for for comments if he has anything else to say. I'm done. Yes, ma'am. [laughter] [clears throat] >> Okay, that brings us to commissioner comments and I'm going to start at this end tonight. Um Commissioner Balkam. >> Thank you, [clears throat] Madam Chair. Um, I would just want to take a second to praise our folks out at the A Center. >> I had dealings with them this past weekend or the past two months and found them to be uh exemplary. Found them to be hardworking, attentive, and aimed to please. So, I just would like to tip my hat to especially Andrew

112Balkam and Joe Lewis that just did an outstanding job. >> Yeah, they're salt of the earth people. >> Salt of the earth. Absolutely. And outside of that, I have no further comments. Just everyone, please be careful going home. >> Commissioner Helms. >> Well, first of all, I'd like to wish a very happy birthday to Commissioner Brian Helms. [laughter] >> Happy birthday. and so thankful you're here celebrating tonight. Um [laughter] um I'd like to thank staff for all their hard work that they put in to um information uh in regards to funding and schools. Um I hope this shed a lot of light to everyone out there that had uh questions and conversations in regards to funding the schools. And to reiterate uh the majority of funding or let me back that up. Um the majority

113of pay comes from the state. Um you know, teachers are a little bit of everything in a classroom. And if you've ever been in a classroom working as a teacher, you're a nurse, you're a counselor. You know, you have so many hats that you wear. And I want to make sure that it's known that we wholeheartedly support our teachers and staff. I I hope there's no question out there that we don't. Um we provide as much as we possibly can um on the backs of our taxpaying citizens. Um, I think we had great conversations tonight about how funding and supplements were given. Um, I hope that the next meeting in November for the BOE, I hope they um pass the $1,000 um to the certified staff um and retroactive activate it to July. But I'd

114also um challenge them to give the additional thousand dollars to classroom teachers, not certified staff, but to classroom teachers. Um because and I'm not saying that the other support staff is not as valuable. Um but they they have a lot of grunt work. And again, if you've ever sat in a classroom, you know how exhausting it is to be a teacher. And um you know our staff UCPS does a great job in education. Um I hope that we can continue great collaborate collaboration between the boards. I think there was a breakdown somewhere in the communication and I hope that um chairman mention and vice chair Helms will be able to meet with um Chair Merrill and Vice Chair Helms soon so we can start work ironing out some of these issues and make sure we're

115still on good foot with one another. And that's all I have to offer. Thank you, >> Commissioner Brian Helms. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um that was a whole lot of helms. Um [laughter] there was >> but uh uh but yeah I mean listen u there has to be dialogue. Okay there there has to be some dialogue. Um and uh and I think that uh uh we had some good dialogue here. I'm optimistic that uh that we can also find some collaboration there with board of education and UCPS. Um thankful to our staff who worked uh very diligently trying to uh put together some numbers for us to look at tonight. Um it doesn't [clears throat] go uh unnoticed the effort that is put in uh by all of our staff here. Appreciate our speakers.

116Um certainly good to see uh Harold out here with us again this evening. It's been a while. So uh so uh yeah, glad to see you back. Um, and certainly appreciate everyone that uh that took the time to come to our meeting tonight. So, just want to say thank you and uh yeah, drive drive safe. >> Happy birthday, Commissioner Brian Helms. >> I hope um we can get you home um soon enough to maybe maybe you won't get to celebrate with the kiddos, but maybe um you and Mrs. towns can celebrate um your birthday a little bit um tonight when the kids have been tucked away. [snorts] >> Well, you know, I've got a very expensive birthday cake that I need to eat. So, >> yeah, I have one of those, too. [laughter] >> Um

117so, happy birthday. Um very happy that you were able to be here tonight. Very sad that Commissioner Sides could not be here tonight. We wish he and Myra well. Logan, we um send you our biggest hugs and prayers. We miss you not being here. Um, Commissioner Sides and I had a really great um, robust conversation about the teacher supplement and um, you know, what our intentions were um, in June um, assuming that the teachers had gotten a teacher supplement increase. Um, prior to running for the board of education in 2014, I had volunteered um, at Fairview Elementary for nine years in the classroom and um, I can't remember it was between the two children. I think I had worked with 20 plus teachers over the years and um, and it does become home. you know,

118my family's six hours away and um Fairview Elementary was my home and then Porter Ridge Middle and Piedmont Middle and um Piedmont High School. you know, you just fall in love um with these people that are giving so much to our young people on top of being such a great school district um that serves our young people so well to either be career, military, or college ready. Um you know the past few weeks has um you know personally broken my heart and my spirit um with uh the personal attacks and um because you know I have I have poured you know instead of going back into the workplace I volunteered for free in our schools for nine years and then eight years on the board of education and now three years here. And when you

119look at the presentation tonight, you can see year over year over year, especially um since Brian and I have been here, they went from having an additional $5 million to an additional eight or $9 million. Um it's something that you know we we have been very vocal about our support for um the superintendent, the board of education. Um so I I don't know where the breakdown happened. Um, uh, I hope I hope we can repair it and fix it because, you know, Brian and I spoke last week and we were like, well, let's reach out and see if the four of us can sit down before tonight and kind of come to an understanding and that didn't happen. Um, but I I hope that'll happen uh soon and I do hope that um, you know,

120with an additional $ 8.8 $8 million. If you have $2,438 teachers, a $1,000 increase, that again would take us from number 37 to number 17 would be about $2.5 million for classroom teachers. And if they decide to do the $2,000 increase, that um would be about $4.9 million. Um I don't think anyone on this board and that would take them from 37 to number 11. Um but again from this board as far as what we fund K12 education this board is number six in the state and that has not been acknowledged. And that slide is in the same slide deck as the slide that says that teacher supplements are number 37. The slide says we're number six on how much funding this county provides to K12 education. So, I just want to thank this board

121um for being so strong with the attacks and um everything over the last uh three weeks. I want to thank um Beverly and our finance department because every time there was an accusation, they were able to um track down as much information as possible. Um Patrick Clayton, Brian Matthews, um I know Jason helped a lot on this. He was here earlier. he had to leave. But uh we are very grateful um for the support and the information you supplied us and the public tonight on how well we we do care about our all of our schools. Um we we have never heard from anyone that our students were number 22. And when I started tracking down their information on where they got number 37 from, it broke my heart that it's never been mentioned that

122our students are ranked number 22 in per pupil funding. So, um, I look forward to having that conversation to figure out how we can increase and work with Union County Public Schools to, um, in to improve where our per pupil funding is landing and have a better understanding about why they're not at number six or number 17 or number 11. Um, so I I do look forward to that. Um, every single one of us love love love our schools and have from day one have been committed um to supporting education. Last but not least, I want to um say an enormous thank you to Liz Cooper. She has been through through a lot with um all of the UCPS um interviews um with their board chair out doing face-toface interviews and then all of the

123news outlets reaching out to her and to me and to Brian for a rebuttal and a state and um a statement. And that beautiful Liz Cube, I mean, she we got that letter from Jim from Reverend Jimmy Benson at 5:58 on a Friday night when she had family that had come into town and were staying at her home. And she did not skip a beat with calling me. And we we worked from like 6:00 at night to 10:45 to provide all of the media outlet that UCPS had sent that letter to that we didn't know anything about after hours on a Friday night and she left her family so that we could get a statement out for the 11:00 news. So, Liz Cooper, I don't know where you are tonight, but um the next time

124we see you, we're all going to hug you. [laughter] But, um huge huge thank you to our staff and to Liz um for everything that she does for us and our board and the county. Um with that, if there are no other comments, I will make a motion to adjourn. All those in favor say I. I