001Good evening everyone. I call the May 19th, 2025 regular meeting of the Union County Board of Commissioners to order. At this time, I'd like to recognize Commissioner Balkam for the invocation. Thank you. If you're so inclined, I invite you to join us in prayer. Dear heavenly father, Lord, we just thank you for all your many blessings. We know that every good and perfect gift comes from you. So Lord, as we bow now, we ask for wisdom and discernment and guidance so we can be good caretakers of the blessings that we've been bestow that we've have bestowed upon us. We thank you for all your many blessings and we love you Lord and we praise you in Jesus in Jesus's name. Amen. Amen. Please stand. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America
002and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. The next item on the agenda is informal comments from the community. Okay, we had two speakers sign up online. We will begin tonight with Martha Grace Haney. She must not be here. We will move now to Kimberly Morris Morrison Hansley. Good evening. On April the 28th, I sent an email to all of you requesting an opportunity to speak with you con with a concern. Um, Miss Helms, I know you were going through a family emergency and I hope everything is okay. You were the very first person with all that you were going through to respond and it is deeply appreciated. Miss Merrill, I really appreciate you responding as well. Mr. Hams and Mr. Sides and Mr.
003Balkam, I've yet to hear from either of you. And to be honest, Gary, you were the only one I was surprised I didn't hear from. I thought I would have heard from you. But nevertheless, I come before you again. I've come before you guys a couple times concerning u my internet, which I was able to successfully gain internet without the help of Union County. Uh my other concern has been um property that is uninhabited. And I'm being very intentional in saying uninhabited because I've gotten these back and forth emails with Mr. Mr. HS and I don't think he quite understands what I've been communicating. Property that no one lives in that is run down, trashed, falling down. I've come and showed you guys pictures year after year after year. I showed you guys pictures of
004how the whole house was lined, the gables of the house was lined with buzzards. I've begged and I've pleaded and I've seen um I think it's over 317 pages of a public records request where I requested where you have taken action on properties that needed to be addressed because of the safety hazards and everything else. So, I am not asking you guys to make a decision about how people keep their yards and their houses like an HOA, but I am asking you to understand those of us who pay high property taxes year after year after year and cannot control what our neighbor does, but have some type of standard of housing for a neighbor who no longer even lives in the house. I don't think that's too much to ask. That is somebody that owns
005that property who is being very negligent and not taking any type of steps to do that. Now, you have an ordinance on file about a cars. I have a list of about 20 houses already that I will be entering in as a public record and I will also be sending I'm going to send you guys to every house that I passed or I'm driving around and finding that has cars in their yards because you do have that one and you do have a right because you are supposed to have them remove those cars from their yards. That's the action I have to take. So, if you're not going to listen to me any other way, I'm going to force you to enforce what you do already have on the books. I would appreciate any of
006you having a conversation with me and trying to understand why I should be paying my high taxes and I can't get any response from any of my county commissioners. Thank you. We had a couple of people sign up um here tonight. The first is Deb Helms. Good evening. My name is Deb Helms and I live in unincorporated Union County. And for the record, yes, I am married to Commissioner Helms, Brian, not Christina. Um, but I'm here speaking tonight, as I have multiple times before he was elected, expressing my concerns about my elected officials. I would like to express first my gratitude for the strong sweeping actions of this board in the less than three years that you've all been seated. The people of this county have made it clear that we are not in favor
007of turning our farmland into nothing but houses to accommodate the overgrowth of Charlotte. We want to maintain our rural community and simply stated our schools and roads cannot continue to support the growth that has happened over the years. I'm thankful that this board has taken action to preserve our open space and farmland. On another note, I am very displeased with the representation our county and our state has received in Raleigh. There are several state bills, mainly HB765, that aim to take away our local voices and our ability to keep Union County rural. I live in a small culde-sac development on just over an acre of land. The idea that I could build four more houses in my yard is ridiculous. The idea that my neighbors on either side of me could also build four more
008houses in their yard and the lady two houses down with four acres, half of that in a flood plane, could build 19 houses, not taking into account the flood plane portion. That is also absolutely ridiculous. The idea of this making housing more affordable just simply isn't the truth. in the general concept of supply and demand on the surface, I could see where that argument could be made. What isn't being discussed by those in support of this legislation is while if, and that's a big if, we were to somehow reduce the cost of housing, who is going to pay for the additional schools needed, Raleigh has already proven they won't adequately fund our schools. Are they going to bear the cost of building new schools? Or are they just going to pass the current proposed legislation
009to lift classroom capsize and pack more kids into already overcrowded classrooms? Who's going to pay for the additional public services needed? On the agenda tonight is a discussion about a new jail. Who's going to pay for that? With higher density housing comes a burden of higher cost of public service. Somebody has to pay for that. And it won't be the legislators in Raleigh who are making these decisions. It will be the people of this community whose voices have been silenced by that legislation. Thank you to each and every one of you for standing strong for the people of this county against the direct attacks of our state legislators. We, the people here in Union County, encourage you to continue to stand strong. Thank you. The next speaker we have is Joel D. Good evening, county
010commissioners. As you guys all know, uh my name is Joel D and I live within the village of Wesley Chapel. Um I'm speaking to you this evening because when I saw the general obligation bonds on the evening for that is for discussion and also the jail project as well at the end of this tonight's agenda. Um, I was laid with heaviness from God that uh I was supposed to pray for you all this evening with the many financial decisions that you will have to make when it comes to the bonds uh that will be discussed this evening and then also the jail project. Uh so I would encourage everyone to uh bow in prayer if you don't mind with me. Uh dear God, the creator of heaven and earth, thank you for the many gifts
011you have given us. Thank you for this world you created. Thank you for your love, your grace, and your mercy that you give to us every day. but especially when you sent Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. Thank you for Union County, this place we call home. Thank you for these commissioners whom you have instituted as Romans 13:1 tells us. Thank you for all the political leaders of this nation. And I pray that you will use them for your purposes and to glorify yourself because we are here to know you and make you known. God, I pray that you will give these commissioners, county manager Matthews, and all the members of staff divine wisdom, guidance, and discernment as they are finalizing the county budget over the next month. I pray that the
012commissioners and staff will see that the tax money is not their own. It's not the people's money, but is ultimately your money, God, because you give all these things to us, and without you, we would be a vapor or dust or ultimately we would be nothing without you, Lord. Lord, I pray that you will illuminate, expose all frivolous, wasteful, ungodly, and demonic spending in Jesus name. That you will give all these commissioners, count the county manager and staff the courage to disclose this information to the public even though it may not be fun and that they may be ridiculed. Finally, Lord, I pray that you will bring people to a saving faith in you, not only here in Union County or this country, but throughout the world. In Jesus Christ's name, I pray, the King
013of Kings and Lord of Lords. Amen. That is um it for the number of um speakers that have either signed up online or here tonight. Are there any other speakers that are here that did not get a chance to sign up? Hearing none, we will move on to the next item on our agenda, which is item 25-283, a public hearing regarding twothirds general obligation bonds. I will now open the public hearing and recognize Beverly Laws, our finance director, for comments. Thank you. Good evening, commissioners. This is the required public hearing um for the issuance of $13 million of twothirds general obligation bonds. The North Carolina general statutes requires that a public hearing is held for any general obligation bond that the county desires to issue. Um, twothirds general obligation bonds are an allowable debt financing
014method under North Carolina general statutes and the county is allowed to issue an amount based on the prior year's reduction in the general obligation bond principal debt. Um, as you are aware, during the capital planning process for the current fiscal year, the adopted projects included the need to issue $13 million in general obligation bonds to provide funding for the acquisition, renovation, and expansion of public facilities, including but not limited to the judicial center and governmental center. This need has risen to the level that it has because of the county's population. Um, we have grown tremendously since the original judicial center was built and additional space is needed for judicial staff as well as courtroom space. The debt service cost for this issuance is estimated to have a maximum debt service payment amount of $1,283,000. Um,
015debt payments will begin during fiscal year 2026 and they will end in 2046. The current Avalor tax rate is sufficient in the county's general debt fund to meet the current debt service payment obligations as well as the payments for this new issuance. Um, we plan to issue these bonds during the month of July and I will be glad to answer any questions you may have regarding this. I have um one question. So, uh, taking on this, um, this debt to do this renovation, $13 million, will that impact our credit rating, um, at any because we have so many other projects that we're trying to work on. Um, I do not anticipate that it would impact our credit rating at this time. the credit rating agencies do look at your total overall liabilities um and certain
016ratios related to that but this is such a small issuance compared to um some of the larger issuance that we may be faced with in the future. Okay. Thank you. We have met with the credit rating agencies already regarding this bond and the other general obligation bonds and we are waiting to hear back from them. Okay. Wonderful. Thank you. Are there any other questions? One quickly. Yes. What's the go interest rate? Um, last week when I looked it was four and a quarter. So 4. That's down, wasn't it? Over five. Um, we were estimating 5% to be conservative throughout our debt modeling process. Yes. Thank you. We did not have any speakers um signed up for this public hearing, but are there any speakers here tonight that did not have an opportunity to sign up
017that do wish to speak? With that, I will close the public hearing and we will move on to agenda item 25-282, the service award recognition. I would like to recognize Julie Broom, our human resources director, concerning this item. Good evening, commissioners. Uh last month, we held our service award ceremony for the second quarter. We were recognizing employees uh meeting service award milestones in April, May, and June. We had a small but mighty group. There were 17 employees that we were recognizing for this quarter. about half of those were able to join us for the ceremony. Um, specifically for the second quarter, we had nine five-year recipients. Four 10-year recipients, one 15-year recipient, two 20-year recipients, and one 25-year recipient. As always, there was a lot of camaraderie in the room. Um, a lot of accolades,
018appreciation for accomplishments. Um, great time had by all. Um, we have a short video to show you to u provide some highlights from that ceremony. And again, I would just like to extend my congratulations and thanks to those employees that have met their service award milestones for the second quarter. Thank you. [Music] welcomed all of you to our Q2 service awards ceremony. Today we are celebrating employees who are celebrating anniversaries um during the month of April, May and June. We got some 5 years, 10, 15, and then we've got some 20s. Um so congratulations to all of you. He's just a tremendous asset to our team and we we're proud to have you. Thank you. Congratulations. But you always have a good attitude no matter what we throw at you. Nicole, I appreciate you more
019than words can say. I say it all the time, but um Union County thanks you as well. Thank you. It wasn't It was It's always a blessing to be somewhere where they let you be yourself. But he came through the door in procurement and he was ready to go. He had done his homework, had been studying. He was just eager and ready to go. And Corey is always ready to go and I appreciate it so much. While I do feel appreciated on a daily basis cuz I I do more help with all the departments, these type of things just show how much the organization appreciates their employees and it's just a reminder of the work that we do is appreciated. So this is this is great. This lady is like a little Tasmanian devil when
020it comes to work. She has an appetite like no one I've ever seen. And that's a good thing. Um does not like to have idle time, does not do well when she has idle time, much prefers to be busy. And I can only imagine u the marketer leaving at 911. And God forbid if I ever find myself in a tragedy where I need help and I call that number, I hope that you answer the phone. So, Cheryl single-handedly built a whole quality assurance and improvement program for human services. She has cultivated a highly competent team. They've achieved several quality assurance certifications and have been recognized by the state for their work. This is our facilities maintenance supervisor, technician, knowit all, do it all, uh knowledgeable, all that good stuff. I was actually um hoping this
021would be my last stop before retirement. I actually started my career in parks and recreation when I was 19 years old back on Long Island and I just came full circle and hopefully will end my career doing the same thing that I loved. It's hard to capture in just a few words the impact Miss Peggy has had over two decades of service. Anyone who's worked with her will tell you the same thing. She's the calm in the storm, which is very important. We work in child protective services. It's very stressful. She's always calm. She's the helping hand when you're lost in paperwork and she's the one who always knows the answer and we are so grateful and lucky to have you on our team and we love you so [Applause] much. I'm very proud to
022recognize Karen today for her 20 years of dedicated service, leadership, and unwavering commitment to the field of social work. I've worked really hard to balance everything. I will say that it has not been easy, but it's been worth it. It's been so worth it. Um, I'm older now and a lot of the younger population that I dealt with earlier in my career are now young adults now and it's so great to see them out in the community. And they'll tell you, if it wasn't for you, if if it wasn't for you, I don't know if my family would have made it. I'm not in this for the money. I'm I'm not, like I said, I feel it's a calling. And you just have to stay focused, stay in your truth, and just do the best
023that you can do. It is very obvious when you listen to the stories and the comments that you have. There's a lot of respect. There's a lot of appreciation and friendship for the people that you work with. And that's important because, and I say this quite often, we are a work family. We're here. We spend a lot of time with each other. It's good that we can treat each other like family. Uh sometimes we get mad at family, but that's okay. You know, we get through it. We do the things we have to do. But I'm so proud that that you guys are part of this organization. you represent us well uh and you do everything that makes this organization a great place to work. So I want to wish you a great day. I
024hope that uh the rest of your day is wonderful. Thank you so much for coming and sharing. Have a great day. [Music] Well, Oz and I really hate that we missed this one, but um congratulations to all of those employees and a big thank you for their years of service and um we look forward to seeing their their next appreciation. But thank you very much. The next item to be considered um on the agenda is uh consent. Are there any motions regarding uh requested revisions or amendments to either the consent agenda or business? Just kidding. No, we got you on there tonight. We got you, Gary. For now. For now. Okay. Yes. If there's no if there's no amendments, I'll make the motion that we adopt the consent agenda as published. Okay. All those in
025favor of the motion, say I. I. Good job. That brings us to the business portion of the agenda. And the first item up is item 25-294, a jail discussion. I would like to recognize facilities director Chris Boyd. Regarding this item, Well, thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, good evening, commissioners. Um, this item is to give the board an update uh on the uh jail study. Um, prior to that, and we have our consultants here that'll uh give you a presentation on uh where they are. Um, prior to that, I wanted I think there's some interest in talking about the jail timeline overall. So, I wanted to go through that um fairly quickly. All right. So, the uh jail timeline starts 90 to 94 uh when we got a court order. Um in ' 92, we got
026that order consent to build the new jail. It was finished in 94. Um 10 years later, the jail exceeded population for the first time at 240. Um and so uh the county decided in in August of ' 04 to uh start a selection process potentially for a jail expansion. Um in ' 05, the board approved a contract for that jail study um awarded to Little H and Carter Goel. Um and that was to include jail projections, programming and some master planning on the site. Uh in ' 06 there was an update on that jail study. Um wherein they presented a couple options, a 580 bed option and a 730 bed option. Um then in ' 06 later in ' 06 uh it's like a week later the board decided to approve uh a funding plan
027in CIP just for design. that moved over into November when the board approved a contract for schematic design and design development for that um uh just for that phase and that was a little over a million and a half dollars. Actual expenses ended up being like 1.4 a little over 1.4. Um then in ' um in March uh through August the SDDD set was complete. Um but in September that was all put on hold uh based on the financial conditions of course that was the kind of 0708 um kind of market issue and uh then there was also a decline in the jail population that was factored into that. Um then move over to 2009, the jail population once again exceeded 240. Um and so the sheriff's office did an analysis of uh the uh
028state prison space uh in Monroe. Um the thought was you could get 80 inmates at a cost of $4 million over there. Um but the sheriff's uh office decided that they probably needed more information to make a decision about that. Um so in 2010 in February um the board approved a contract amendment for Carter Global. If you remember they were awarded the design the CD SDDD uh design um and for $25,000 they were going to do an update uh to that. Then in 2010 um the board did receive an update on that jail study. Um, now that moved the bed count from the 581 from the previous study to the 504. There was no action taken by the board during that update. Chris, before you continue, before we move to the next slide, it does
029a design exist from the 1.5 million that was spent in 2006. What was there ever a design there? There is there's a um basically a DD set. Uh that's still we still own. Okay. Um it it's not necessarily a 100% um what we're going to need because it did include a sheriff's office. Okay. And we built the new sheriff's office admin facility. Okay. So it's not completely what we would need. So, a design was created with the 1.5 and I guess a revision or an update to that design by 2010. That's how I understand it. And I I of course I wasn't here in 2010, but doing the research back um there was a presentation to the board where they adjusted uh the bed count, you know, from the 581 to 504. Okay. There's some
030things to follow that that are related to it too. Mhm. Uh then uh later in October uh they that was to do a study of that um you know the uh jail the um the Monroe jail. So in October of that year in 2010, uh they approved an additional design services to revisit design based on that bed revision of $350,000. So the board did at that time direct staff to look at a 224 and 448 option um uh with no 911 center. there was there was at a time uh a plan to include 911 uh as part of that that jail uh design. Um and so at that point they decided not to include the 911 center and have those two options uh to consider. So moving over to 2011 in February um the board
031did initiate the process for finance and jail needs. So, um it wasn't real specific on what that was when we looked at the minutes. Uh and then shortly after that, 30 days later, um the board approved evaluation of a uh 3P or a P3 public private partnership that could potentially fund um the jail. Um so then in uh later in March uh well actually same meeting um little uh and h did a presentation to the board and uh it was a pretty significant phased plan um you can see those those five phases I won't go through them but basically it was uh over time building out according to that that phasing so from 2011 nothing is own record having happened with the jail. Um but then in 2019 uh there were some uh issues related
032to uh structural settlement uh at the jail. So we did engage ARP engineering to study that situation. Um their findings were that there was a 3/4 to an inch of settlement on the uh admin portion of facility. uh due to poor soil compaction, there was a solution on the table that could have uh cost anywhere from $500,000 $700,000 just for that one section. Um and it just so happened that we were in the middle of designing the new uh sheriff's office admin facility. Uh so the um the thought was that we build it and we kind of shut down that back portion until a decision on jail and how we're going to move there uh was taking place. So there was some decisions made not to do that 500 to 700,000 based on building a
033new uh admin facility. All right, moving to 2020. Um as we were working on the uh sheriff's office admin facility, we did do a master plan uh so that we could be informed to site the new building in the right place in case a new jail was ever built. So, uh that's uh that's kind of how we approached uh the master plan. Now, that master plan did include a two-phase uh plan with a initial 376 um 376 bed with a 600 bed core. Uh and then phase 2 would have been some years later at 224 beds. And you can see what the cost estimates were on uh on that uh in 2020. In 2022, we had them update the cost on that that two-phase plan. Um, so nothing happened with uh that in 2022. Um,
034then in 2024, we did include uh in the CIP um fiscal year 24 um almost $2.4 million uh to start looking at uh advanced planning for a 600 bed, 600 core uh facility. Um in that 2024 presentation we did look at a four 400 600 500 600 and a 600600 and gave you some pricing on uh uh best at the time estimates on uh building those options. All right. So then we moved to 2025. Um in February at the board retreat uh we did present a 400 800 a 600 800 um those two options to the board. Um in March uh we also talked about a 400 600 and a 500600. Um and those options were approved to move forward for uh move the jail study forward with those two options. And so that brings
035us, we're here tonight to uh give you an update uh on where where we are with the study and where the consultants are with the study. Um tonight's uh update is going to kind of focus on three areas. One is programming, which uh informs how big those two options need to be from a square foot standpoint. Uh they also include updated estimates based on that square footage. Uh and then they're going to talk about um an operational expense model for uh the two options. So you'll see staffing plan, you'll see other um operational cost, and you'll see um how those total up at those two option sizes. Thing to consider, um this is an allin. Those estimates for operational costs are allin. if uh the jail is full and it's fully operational. Um I think
036the sheriff has shared in many um discussions, presentations that uh this will be an incremental cost. You know, year one, you're not going to have to uh utilize that. But we wanted to show you what you know what it's going to be at the once it gets full and you know, you got to staff the thing fully. So, um, I'm going to turn over the presentation on the jail study update, uh, to our consultants. Got Alan Richardson with Justice Planners and Thomas Carlson Reddic with Little Architecture. So, they're give you, um, an update on where they are. But before you, unless you've got any questions for me, I do. Um, I don't suppose you're keeping a running total of all the studies over the past 10, 15 years that have been uh paid for for
037a new jail facility. Yeah, I think this timeline is the the best thing we have right now. You know, if the board wants, we can certainly get a little more, you know, technical, but this timeline is about the best we can do with um So, just add it all up. Yeah, I I yeah, just we'll have to add it up and bring in that number. I would be very curious to see that how much we've spent getting ready to get ready or get ready to stop. Yeah, I would agree. It's a lot of money that that we've invested so far. Probably. Yeah. Okay. So, commissioner. Yeah. Go ahead. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, Chris, just real quick, so if you could, well, I I don't know if I can single in on one slide here.
038Uh, there's a lot of information obviously. Um, I think obviously that everybody can discern that this is something that's been going on for quite some time. My question though is is this is that um historically the original plans for the new jail facility um that would have included the new administrative office and that would have also included the 911 center in the early versions of the jail. Is that am I understanding that correctly? Yeah, I think in programming uh and the SDDD there was consideration of both of those uh being a part of the program, but quickly the 911 centers pulled out and not a part of that equation, but the admin facility remained um and it remains in that DD set that um we talked about earlier. And I realize that this might have
039been before your time there, but any idea why the 911 center was pulled out of that project scope or why we separated up those three projects, the administrative building, the 911 center, and then now the jail. Yep. I'd have to say it's before my time and I'm I wasn't a part of those conversations, so I'd hate to guess. Okay, fair enough. Thank you, sir. Okay, so I'll turn it over to our consultants. Oh yeah. All right. may go first. Good evening. Thanks for your time uh and attention as we walk through the next steps uh of this jail study. Uh as has been presented so far, uh we were tasked with coming up with a square footage program for a 400 bed facility with a 600 bed core and a 500 bed facility. also with
040a 600 bed core. We met with the sheriff and jail staff back in early spring. so far as uh operations uh and in various operational components that should be a part of the jail. We we took that information went back and and basically applied square footage to every office, every sale, every janitor's closet to go uh in the facility uh to come up with with uh with a couple of different space programs which are which this table represents. the total square footage uh total building growth square footage all in uh for two options and what the difference between the two are is broken down into 14 14 different component areas from the lobby to visitation to booking to housing. You can see all the the various components that are there. Uh the only difference in
041square footage is in a housing support and in a housing um numbers for the two options for a 600 bed core. Your visitation area, your health services, your food service is pretty much going to be unchanged. It's going to be the same. So you build that core in and then when the time comes if the time comes to add an additional 100 beds to take it from 400 to 500 then that's uh that's already there to support that. So your your difference of just over 30,600 square ft comes from the additional housing space and housing support space for the 500 bed jail option. Can I ask a question please? You certainly can. Um uh code 400 administration, right? We have an administration building, do we not? What What is this for? This is for the
042jail commander, for their staff, for all the administrative functions for the jail operations. And and that's not done. Th this this was put together as if we were going to have a totally new replacement jail facility. Uh if decisions are made, if options are made to to keep part of what you have uh demolish some, add on to to what you have, this would be an an all-in replacement uh type facility. In in other words, it should not grow beyond what we have here presented. And can you expand on the difference between housing support and housing? Well, I mean, housing is obviously the beds, but what is housing support? Housing support are areas such as uh a classroom, some program spaces, counseling spaces, video court appearance. Uh to to make this facility uh as efficient
043as possible, we wanted to limit inmate movement within the facility as much as possible. So, whatever services are going to be offered, the more we can take to the housing unit or close to the housing unit, we're going to minimize that internal movement uh of inmates to keep from having to move them and transport them all throughout the facility. Yes, ma'am. Any other questions on this at this point? Okay. Okay. So, now I get to talk about cost. And there's uh multiple um things we're going to talk about in regard to cost. One is the construction cost. Then there'll be the soft costs. And then there's things like escalation. And then we're getting into operations cost for direct cost for staff as well as what it costs to operate a building. So the the 400
044um bed, 600 core, you can see here is about 180,000 square feet. And uh based on recent construction costs for these types of facilities, we're looking at about 115 thou 115 million for a project of this size. Typical soft costs for buildings, and most of you have done buildings before, they typically are around 20%, but with recent jails that we've we've done, we're seeing that in about 15%. And those cost soft costs are, you know, fees, surveys, geotech, all sorts of other factors, equipment, furniture, etc. Um escalation is a little unpredictable as you all know, right? But we're looking at 3% for for two years. So that that leads us um to the total that you see you see here. The 180,000 square feet came from Allen's program, right? You had some questions about that.
045We haven't designed anything yet, right? So, we know when we design a building, we're going to look at maximizing the efficiency the best we can, but you don't want to tell you that, oh, we can do it for this much square footage until you start designing it. But our goal is to make it more efficient and and not we would not be exceeding that. The um the next one is the 500 bed um 500 beds with a 600 core. And same thing, we're looking at construction costs the same per square foot. You're looking at soft cost the same percentage and your escalation. Um so you see the differences um between between those two. Um I think the cost per square foot uh that you see is 640. That's based on a ver a project that
046was bid um about about 6 months ago. Um so it's in line with you know but there's different ways that these kinds of facilities can be built. So once we get into design we can look at different efficiencies and find ways to to maximize your dollars. So, the next thing we want to talk about is staff. We we're not going to get into cost yet, but let let Alan talk to you a little bit about the staffing needs for a facility like this. Just before we get into the particulars of the staffing, uh this is going to be very similar to the square footage numbers that uh that we just talked about. Uh while I Wiggy were able to meet with the sheriff and and the sheriff's staff several months ago on the initial planning
047of the operations, this is a our our best estimate at this point in time of the square footage that would be required for the facilities. Uh the sheriff has not had input uh I don't know if he's been able to review it but has not had input on those spaces on those square footages so far nor has he had any input or his staff on these staffing numbers. Uh if you should elect to move forward uh with the project. The square footage numbers are going to be refined obviously at each step of the way as the progress um uh moves forward. The same with the staffing numbers. This is this is my first cut at staffing a building that doesn't exist. Uh and the staffing should also be reviewed at every key step and milestone
048uh uh along the way throughout the process. We've got staffing numbers for a 400 bed facility and a 500 bed uh facility. Just with the square footage, uh the everything that you see above detention deputy doesn't change with with the two options. The number of administrative staff, the number of supervisory staff would remain the remain the same administrative positions at all. the detention deputies would increase by approximately 23 staff uh FTEES full-time equivalents uh by adding the additional 100 beds going to a 4 going to a 500 bed option from a 400 bed option. Uh one thing that this does include is uh an estimated relief factor for staffing. Let me explain what that is. uh for a typical 9 toive office job, if you call in sick one day, your work is going to
049be waiting for you tomorrow whenever you whenever you feel better and come back in. You can't do that with a housing unit uh full of inmates. Uh you can't just shut that down for the day. So, someone has to be there and and cover that. And ideally, you don't want that always be overtime uh staff because then you're going to have overtime. you're going to you get to the point where you have uh forced uh uh or mandatory uh overtime as well. And so we factor in relief for those times where you're on vacation or you're out sick or FMLA or jury duty or or or what have you. My understanding they don't currently have a relief factor built in to staffing. I stand to be corrected, but I I don't believe that uh that
050they do. Uh, I went with a conservative factor based on numerous staffing projects that that I have have worked on before. Um, again, should you elect to move forward uh with this project, this is something that should be revisited at every major step along the way and to have an accurate relief factor calculated uh to be able to apply and updated as you go along throughout this this process. Make sense? Awesome. Now TCR is going to talk about money again. Okay. So, uh, one of the biggest expenses for a facility like this is your staff, right? And you have a current facility of about 73 71 73 staff and direct expenses are 7.3 million. If we're looking at Allen's numbers that he just shared with you, um you'd be looking at about 12.9 for the
051400 and 15.2 for the for the 500. Now, as Chris said earlier, that might not be day one. You know, that might be you ultimately the build when you get to 400 or 500. And um so if you look at um those numbers, you know, they they correlate more or less uh dollar amount per per staff. Uh these do not have any escalation at this point. You know, you you all control kind of basically what folks are paid, but just wanted to make sure that you're aware that this does not have any escalation. So then there's um operational costs and we've been given by you all um data on what it costs to operate your facility and operating means you know it's the maintaining the facility it's food it's medical it's outsourcing things etc and
052currently you know your expenses for operating are 5.8 8. And if we look at that based on the square footage of your existing facility or at $84 per square foot, how does that measure against other facilities? It seems like it's in line. Could we be more efficient than that? Perhaps, but until we design, it's hard to say. So, if you extrapolate the 84 times the um square footage of the new facilities, you can see those um estimated operational expenses for the 400 as well as the 500. Um so that gives you a sense of um the staff expenses as well as the operational expenses for the facility. But it's also important then to look at you know um the total. So if you look at the total for the 400 um you're looking at staff
053at 129 and the operating 15. So a total of 28 and this and then for the 500 your your staff's 15 and you're operating 17 for a total of 32. So that's a lot of numbers thrown at you. We know it's a it's a it's a lot of costs. We think it's our responsibility to you to you at this stage to just be as direct as we can so you understand uh what these facilities cost to build and to run and to operate and um we're if if it moves to the next stage we'll do everything we can to to tighten these numbers. I think that's the last slide. Yes, it is. So probably have lots of questions. Commissioner Helms and then we'll go commissioner sites. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um I've got just a
054couple of questions and if um if we can go back to square footage. Um we've got some numbers in this presentation that kind of compare uh current, you know, conditions or or well current expenses, I I should say. But if we can go back to square footage here, I'm just curious with the proposed um scope here of the 400 bed 600 core and then also the 500 bed and 600 core, you know, we're looking at 180,000 square ft and then 211,000 square feet respectively. Yeah. Uh what is the current size of our facility now today? About 69,000 square feet. The best 69,000 for 200 and 60 something. Okay, so I mean conservatively let's just say 65. Um and then if we can go to the cost analysis for operational operational cost analysis. It's probably more
055like an estimate, you know, at this point. I believe you guys are got a moving target here. This one here, the the Yeah, that one. Yeah. Yep. So, um, yes, this one here. So, currently with, uh, with our current situation and based off the information in this slide here, we're getting that, uh,5,800,345 based off of operating food, medical, and outsourced housing. Is am I understanding that information correctly? So, this does not take into consideration things like uh, utilities. It doesn't take into consideration like janitorial or janitorial or custodial services, grounds, landscaping, security, um I don't know, um HVAC maintenance, um you know, fire extinguishers. I I'm just saying it doesn't take into account all of the operating costs that we probably have currently. And then certainly what we would well expect to see a significant
056increase in the future. Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong. I have colleagues with Oh, I I can I can share if you if you see the operating line under direct uh current direct operating cost, that's where utilities, landscaping, HVAC maintenance, all those things are included in that one generic line. Yeah. Okay. So, that number does include that. It does. Okay. I I just wanted to Yeah, there might be a few little things, Chris, that were mentioned that might not be, but I think for the more or less they they're in there. Okay. I think that's important to point out because, you know, based off of what we're seeing here, I think it can easily be be misinterpreted that some of those things are not factored into that cost. Um, now the estimates here that we're
057looking at, would that assume the same factors or the same criteria then or what what are we basing the 15,120,000 and then I mean can you can you expand a little bit further? I want to see if this is a apples to apples comparison. That's what I'm looking at. Yeah, I mean it it's really looking at how you're operating now and assuming that it might operate similarly. Until we design it, it's hard to know. Um, so could we design a more efficient building for example, HVAC? Yes, of course. You know, so maybe that number can come down, you know, relative to what you currently operating. Um, when it comes to food and medical, I got to believe that seems to me that that would be similar. I mean, I can't imagine that would change a
058lot. Contract. Yeah. Uh, depends on your contract. Yeah. When it comes to the outsourced housing, that's a That's a tricky one because uh hopefully there isn't any outsource housing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think that answers my questions. Um again, I'm trying to make sure that we're looking at things and being equal with what we factor in our current expenses versus what the projected expense would be in the future. I think it's a great question. It's, you know, uh again, we're in the programming stage, you know, a very high level. Sure. We did check with some of our other cons uh clients to see what their operating costs are, Brian, and um see are we in the same ballpark and checking with them. Yes, we are. What we're seeing operating costs of what you all have
059and what we're projecting are in line with what what they're doing. One last question. Um the uh cost per square foot. Yeah, I believe that I can't remember who said it, but I believe someone said that was based off of a of a more recent jail project. Yeah. Yeah. Um I'm not asking for specifics, but but does the uh the size the scale of the locality or the municipality that did that is that similar in comparison to Union County? Yeah. Yeah, it's a little bit smaller, but yeah. Was that located within the state of North Carolina? It's in South Carolina. South Carolina. Okay. See you draw from the same market I think contractor-wise I think Brian so it'd be a similar market uh similar subs but one of the things that's interesting in jails I
060don't want to get into the weeds too much is that the biggest part of it are the unit you know the units the cells right so what do you choose how do you choose to build them are they steel are they pre-cast or they concrete blocks so there's a lot of different ways that can be done and that drives the cost so we'd have to work with you in terms determine what's the best path forward. Well, I I can tell you that at least for my opinion on the matter, we're not building a fivestar resort. Oh, absolutely not. So, none of them are fivestar. Yeah. So, um Yeah. As uncomfortable as possible. Do you take into account how many beds are per sale when you're making these estimates? Yes. How many beds are per sale?
061Yeah. What Alan talked to. Yeah. We we were directed to do uh plan for double occupancy. So it's two beds per sale. Right. Uh Commissioner Sods, uh a couple questions and I'm going to digress on you a little bit in a little bit slightly different. Uh what would be the design timeline from the word go to actually have a design and get ready to bid, build at risk, whatever. Let's ask the architect. who will be designing typ typically Gary you know there's a lot of steps there's schematic design we want to review it with you we want to get an estimate you get a contractor on board right and then we go into design development schematic say three months DD design development three months then you got to you got to ask you got to
062get an update right on the cost then you go to construction documents let's say it's like four four months right you then you got to get get a permit. There's back and forth on that. You got to get the final estimate and then you got to bid it. So all told, you're looking at a year typically from from go one year until you're ready to start construction. And that would be aggressive, frankly, of a project of this magnitude. But that gives you a ballpark. And I know it's going to vary according to which size we go with number of beds. Yeah. But let's say start at the bottom 400. How long are you looking at construction time? Three, four years. Frank, I think we two. Yeah, we're think two. So I think conservatively be, you
063know, three years. Three years. Yeah, conservative. I would imagine. Is that going to change much if you jump up to 500? I wouldn't think so. Okay. Not significantly. Okay. So, three years to build. Can I and if you don't have this with you, I certainly understand um because I don't have it with me. If if you started your design and it's taken you a year and then three years to build based on your population projections that you'd offered previously, how many beds would fill the place day one? Would would 400 fill the place day one when it opened? or how let me ask a different how many would you need day one based on that timeline that you'd be you'd be at capacity again um four years from now in essence right four years from
064now if you can hum and and dance for for a minute he has it I know it's just under one of those tabs I wish I could fill time with something now, but I Yeah, me too. You have another question. I was trying to I was trying to think of another question, but I was going to ask Go ahead, please. While they while you work on that and Chris, you may want to um chime in on this. But because of the question that was asked earlier, over the past 10 years, board after board after board has done a jail study. It would appear that $4.5 million, if not more, has been spent on engineering and um jail design studies. Is your design starting from scratch like or or were you part of the design process,
065you know, 10 years ago? Is there any consideration for the $4.5 million that Union County has already spent on design or are we starting over? So, basically, are we using anything any pieces from what we've already paid for? It's probably going to be hard to do. My My thoughts on it are is it's going to be very difficult to use any of the information any design work that's happened so far because they especially the last the ' 07 uh DD set was included sheriff's office and it just is going to be difficult I think to utilize that. Now some of the because little was a part of that team you know I think that there may be some benefits to maybe the sale design those kind of things but there's been even changes in in
066technology and design of sales you know what kind of sales we're going to use so all those questions have to be answered if we land on typical standard traditional sales then maybe we can utilize Hey Chris I don't mean to interrupt Um the live stream is having a hard time picking up sound. So if you all would be able to talk into the microphone just so people watching at home can hear. And I I'm going to um jump in. So, the board of education, Union County Public Schools, 15 years ago or whatever it was 20 years ago, they knew they were looking at doing a transportation facility um because uh their bus fleet, you know, there were so many people coming in, the population, the student population was just doubling and um you know, increased
067significantly over a decade. So when you when the number of students are quadrupling almost every other year, um they had spent allocated money and designed a transportation facility, but they had to put it on hold because they had to build Stallings Elementary. They needed another elementary school. They couldn't spend it on a on a bus transportation. they had to immediately start building elementary schools and we wound up with, you know, um, Weddington, Marvin, Cuthbertson, Stallings in the Porter Ridge area. Um, and then, you know, years and years went by. So, you know, they probably I can't remember the numbers. I'm going to make them up. So let's say their buses went from like needing a 100 buses to run per day to now they had a fleet of over 400 buses. So they knew they
068needed an adequate, you know, bus garage to take care of the fleet of buses. Um, one that could take care of a 100 buses certainly couldn't take care of the 450 they now had. But so when when they were ready to do that, that design was there and all they had to do was take that design that had been put on hold and tweak it and update it and bring everything to code and what they wanted to do, you know, 10 or 15 years later and and they went and now they have a new transportation facility on gold mine. So that that's what I have in the background when I'm asking you. We've spent four and a half to five million dollars of taxpayer money on a design of a new jail. And that's that's
069why I'm asking, you know, is there anything there that But you're saying we can't use anything that that $5 million is is just gone. Yeah, maybe I can defer to Little because they did the DD design um and whether it's something Yeah, defer to Little because of um their involvement in the uh DD design. Um so I don't know if you've got anything to share on whether there's any usefulness to the design as it stands. I I think it's a good question and you know, Kelly, Frank, and myself were not involved with that. We do have the documents. We will look at that and we will evaluate it to make sure that we can use anything that's in that that can that can benefit you and benefit the timeline and obviously maximize dollars. I do
070know though codes requirements for these types of facilities are very complex. They change a lot. So I don't want to say yes, we'll just use it and when you when we really can't. So I promised you Melissa that we will look at the documents we have and see if this there's something useful uh as we move forward. The other thing is as Allen said, we're going with all double cells, right? And I don't think in the original jail that we were doing that. So you know it's it's you know we want to do what's right for you all. We want to design an efficient facility. And so it might not be even the right fit. You might not say, "No, that's not the jail we want that's going to serve us." So, and and I'm
071just looking for the answer to be honest with you. I'm not trying to back you in a corner and say, "Hey, go find that design and is there anything we can use?" The it was a truly a simple question. Yeah. Does that design exist? Do we even know where it is? Y and is there anything that can be salvaged out of the four and a half to 5 million that we've invested? And if the answer's no, then we start from scrap. Very good. We start with a blank piece of paper. I'll just chime in real quick on that. Um the jail code for new construction for jails has recently changed within about the past four or five years. So the standards that you know little uh may have designed to back then, you know, they
072have changed and there are some new requirements that do have to be taken into account. So, and I would assume the same would go with a with a bus that transports, you know, hundreds of kids every day. I would assume there's safety, you know, things there, too. But, you know, having that experience where the bus transportation facility was put on hold because we had to build new schools for this growing population. Um, just want to know if there was anything out there because I'm sure they had codes as well. Yes. Um, you mentioned that codes were recently updated in the last four plus years. How often are codes updated? And if we start on this now, will what we already have in place be obsolete and changes and/or additions need to be made for the
073uh jail code? the state of North Carolina uh does not do updates on their jail code um very often. I think the uh last time they did a revision prior to this one was like 15 20 years prior to that. So um they are you know thankfully fairly steady and then of course you know with the you know state building code, plumbing code, mechanical um they all make adjustments from you know from time to time and I'd say I don't know what do you think TCR maybe every 3 yearsish you know the state adopts the a newer code. So and all buildings are going to have to comply with that not just jails. So I think Allan has numbers to go back that question. I was just going to say this is taking too long
074but say the bell. Uh before we jump all the way back there, uh I will say I don't know how long ago that design was made, but since COVID since since 2020, uh the typical profile of of the inmate population has changed uh quite a bit uh not just in Union, but but across the country. Uh you're no longer housing your low-level non-violent misdemean uh folks here. And so the folks that are in jail typically are folks that need to be in jail. So, uh, the the the custody level, the security level needs have have changed since probably um those those initial designs or previous designs uh that we're talking about. Going back to your school bus uh analogy, um you talked about the student population increasing uh as much as they have. uh the
075general population of Union County is projected to increase by over 60% uh in the next 25 years. uh using that as as one of many factors uh in in our inmate population and bedsp space projections. Now sir getting back uh to your question five years from now in 2030 we have projected an average daily population of 349 inmates with 435 beds required to be able to house those folks in in five years. And as you may recall, our 25-year projection was for a total bed space in need of 822. And so that that's a pretty big discrepancy looking five years out uh four to five years out uh now as to what those those needs may be. And bearing in mind any financing vehicle are going to be 20-year bonds in all likelihood. Yeah. That's
076all we Commissioner Helms. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um Chris, this is probably a question for you, uh because it goes back to the timeline that you shared with us. Um one of the things that that you had mentioned was that in 2019 we had a study performed by ARP Engineering. Um, so if I understood correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, because that's why I'm asking the question, um, we never really enacted the 500,000 or $700,000 fix for that because that was a part of the administrative building. I want to clarify. That's right. It was part of that that building that was seeing the settlement is was part of administration. So that's not a part of the jail. That's part of the administration. Yeah. The sheriff's office administration, not jail administration. Okay. All right.
077Um, so I do have a question regarding the old jail though and that's in our previous discussion regarding scope, size, assessment, needs, all that stuff. Um, one of the things that we had asked about and if we need to if you guys need to get back to me on this is fine. But with the existing jail that we have now, the current facility, um, one of the things that we discussed was whether or not that facility could be used for anything. I mean, storage, whatever it might be, but is there any potential uses for that that facility moving forward because the what we're discussing here would be a complete and total replacement. So, has staff gotten any kind of updates on that? any any idea about any potential uses for that building in the future?
078Yeah, we don't have any updates. Um, we can certainly focus on that and bring that to the board at another date. Um, there are, look, there are a lot of potential uses to your point storage. Um, it can be overflow. You know, the issues I think become you still have to maintain and operate it if you're going to use it. And so you and when you're looking at the cost to operate, it stacks on top of each other. If you build a completely new jail and you utilize the existing jail for other purposes, not to say that's not the best approach. I mean, it could be a great approach for utilizing the resources that's there. Um, I think there will be the housing piece will be limited to housing, you know. Um, it's kind of
079like this building. We do use the old sales to store things in. Uh it's not a not the greatest situation, but you know, it at the time it was good for us. Um so yeah, I think we can certainly come back to you with a more detailed list of what potentially uh those spaces could be used for. Now, its location is going to uh dictate that it's mostly going to be secure type of use, not you know, general county use, you know, coming in and and using those things because it's still in the general vicinity of any new jail that we build is going to be in the same vicinity. Okay. And and that's fair. I mean, you know, by all means, please bring us back some information on that because, I mean, again, this
080is assuming, you know, a completely new build and if there's some potential use for that facility even in a limited capacity, I'd like to have information on that. And then the other aspect of that is on the flip side, if there is not, um, obviously this right here is the cost, you know, we're talking about rough estimates, capital, and operating expense right here for a brand new facility. What's the cost to the taxpayer about tearing down the old one? Uh, well, that is, I think, included in Well, it was included in previous estimates. I don't know if it's included in these estimates. Um, it's around I think it's $800,000 knock it down is what I recall from previous estimates. Well, and I would imagine that there's things that, you know, are in the current facility
081that you can't just throw in a dumpster. you know, you're gonna have to find ways to to dispose of, you know, certain things. Well, there's a lot of steel, so there will be a lot of people interested in and salvage. It is a salvage operation. Sure. Okay. Um Yeah. if we can get some numbers on that as well because I think that um that we need to prepare for both both scenarios, you know, so we need to know what we're up against. You know, if this proposal does not include demolition, then you know, by all means, we we need some info on that and then again options for for use of that if anything salvageable. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Sods. I want to make sure I'm clear on the term core. I when
082you build a jail with a 600 bed core, a core is not expandable in itself. You would have to build another structure like an annex. Is that correct? Yeah, I'm going to defer that to the designers. I'm not a designer myself, so I'm going to defer that. I I'll I'll take a stab at that and I'm hoping I'm understanding your question right. So when we design for a 600 core Yes. there's space in the building um in medical right to add laundry etc to be able to expand that um if beds are added in the future. So say that if you have 400 beds initially and you want to add 200 more beds. So you build it at 600 core that core would be able to accommodate those 200 beds without having to build anything
083new. Right now if you want to go beyond that. Yeah. That gets a little tricky. So what as designers what we'd have to do is think about okay where are those core elements? How do you ex how would they expand? Where is it on the site? Can it be expanded without interrupting security and safety and all those factors? Um but the core is also all all those things that are nonsell related. Um so the space is there and and it and it can be expanded as the beds increase. So in taking in that I'm going to say maybe but very expensive very difficult. So when you decide the decision is made on what core size of course separate from beds but core size. Yeah, you better be darn sure that's what you're going to need
084for the next 20, 25, what, however years you want this thing to last because then you're doubling down or significantly making changes or like I said adding an annex. Yeah. Uh entirely another structure. So you need to be as as uh precise as you can precise or go with what you can as far as the core knowing that uh it's this is pretty much what you've got for a good while. Yeah, that so that's fair to say. Yeah. All right. Okay. And I think our approach to take it a step further is to make sure that we design it so they can be adapted as things arise. Right. So to minimize disruption, I I mean what do you mean adapted? You mean add beds, correct? You want to be able to add beds easily. Yeah.
085And if the building needs to expand, you want to make sure you design it so it could expand easily. The core could be expanded. Some parts of it, some So now you're telling me it's a maybe. It's very difficult to do and it's unusual. It's highly unlikely that that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking what I'm trying to figure get a handle on is first of all how long do we want this thing to last right hopefully at least until it's paid for right and maybe long exceeds you know 50 year say 50 year jail so you better be using good projections on the size of your core right project outs for those x number of years because you are obviously designing it to add beds yeah Um, but that core better be what you
086want it to be for a good long while. Yeah. Fair. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Are there any other questions? Yep. Commissioner Balkam, I'm not really sure um who I should direct this question to, but just just challenging the number just a little bit on the staffing cost of 15.2 2 million on the 500600 and the operational cost of 17.725 on the 500600. We we currently our jail currently now is rated at 240. Is that correct? 264 264. Um, I would like to know what our current staffing and operational cost is because if the numbers, if you take the number to cross the board, we should be a little bit north of 13 million. If those numbers cross over and are accurate, 13.1 I think is what we Yeah. 13.1, sir. 13.1. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very
087much. Yeah, I'll just clarify that I think the jail's rated at 240. It's got 264 beds in it. Is that That's right. But the state says it's capacity is 240. That's a very good point that you brought up that I I missed. Just because you build a jail to 400 beds doesn't mean you can have 400 inmates in there, right? Maybe the sheriff's department. Yeah, excellent point. Uh, typically when uh when a jail is 80 to 85% of capacity, operationally speaking, you're full. Uh, analogy that I often use, if you have 100 inmates in 100 beds, somebody's going to be sleeping on the floor while there are unused beds in other areas. You cannot house males and females together, special needs in general population, minimum and maximum. You got to keep gang members apart. You've
088got uh people that are co-defendants. You have to separate. So, there are a lot of extenduating circumstances. You can't just have one guy to a bed. Correct. Okay. And so, for a 400 bed facility, once you hit 80 to 85% of that number, operationally, you're you're considered full. So, that's another consideration that is just as important as your core size. Agreed. And that is why u to your previous question a little while ago looking four or five years out with with our projections we're showing that in five years in 2030 your average daily population will be 349 total beds needed for those 349 or 435 for that very reason for peaking for classification. Sometimes you have to take a unit down and and offline for for maintenance and repair painting. Uh if you don't door
089locks door locks if you don't have that swing space it's it's very difficult to accomplish. So using those factors yes if we built the jail to whatever core but only 400 beds we would be over capacity day one. That's probably using these projections. We built using these projections. Yes. We built a new jail and we're overflowed already. Entirely likely. Yes. Okay. Madam Chair, Commissioner Helms. Thank you. Uh I think it's also fair to say the projections can change and there's variables that can change uh projections and you know I think that there's a number of things that could factor in where uh maybe that's not the case and you know we've already gone over we've already gone over numbers. We've already, you know, talked about this. You guys have came in here and and, you
090know, I think we can agree to disagree because I'm inclined to think that, you know, your original projection there of 822 beds, I believe it was, right, is not something that Union County needs. And so, you know, do we need a new jail? Yeah, probably. So, you know, do we need one of that kind of scope? No, I don't think so. And I understand what Commissioner SC is getting at, but you know, again, variables go both ways, okay? And so we're seeing we're seeing growth projections and we're seeing, you know, all sorts of different um different things there that factor into this, but you know, it's a there's two sides of the coin. There are and and projections can change. You're absolutely right. And that's why our alternate projection uh was not 822. It was
091over 1,200. which I would argue is still too high. I I would hope that you could keep the numbers below. But we won't know until that year gets here who's right or who's wrong. That's why it's a projection. You use a projection. You folks use your knowledge, your training, your expertise, your experience and say using all the variables we have, all the information we have, this is what we project. It is based upon the information we have today and we don't know what the legislature is going to do next year, 10 years from now based upon the information and the knowledge that we have today and the data because we got an awful lot of data from the jail from from local law enforcement. Unfortunately, we couldn't get the courts uh information on that. It's
092the statistically speaking, it's the the best projections we have with the data that's available today. Best to do with what you got. Sure. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much. We appreciate all of your help and your numbers, everything that you've given to us. Thank you for your time. Next on the agenda is item 25-307. I want to recognize Commissioner Gary Sides um to speak about the visit he had to the Cabaris County Jail. As this item was requested by Mr. Sides, I will recognize him for this item. And I'm going to be very brief because frankly from the information I've gathered here tonight and before, I don't think it's going to work for us the way they did it. And I'll tell you why. They got a 20-year head start
093on us in uh early 2000. About the time we were getting sued, Cabaris County moved forward. They were in the same deal, over capacity, crumbling infrastructure, and they built a 96 bed uh annex property as their first phase to try and alleviate to alleviate their overcrowding. If you ever been in downtown Concord, it's right there. Um then they came back and in 2011 opened a 550 bed actual replacement jail. Now an annex of 96 beds for us financially looking at the numbers makes no sense. Uh if you recall last meeting we uh were forced to cancel the contra construction contract to fix locks on cell doors. And then what was it a couple days later that story about the New Orleans jailbreak due partially due to broken door locks came out and I'm holy cow
094this is karma. Anyway, I'm going to switch gears a little bit from my my tour but I want to thank all the folks at the Cabaris County Sheriff's Office, Captain Wallace. They have an excellent operation. I'm going to uh if you recall back we were entertaining and working on a contract to utilize their uh space they have in their annex by having our detention officers take our detainees up there supervise them and then um you know they they would come back. Well, that's not feasible because we're short-handed and you can't have our people running up and down the road. So, I would like to propose something else and ask the sheriff if sheriff you want to come forward um uh any of your folks. What I'd like to do is to reopen those negotiations with
095a slight twist. What I would like to do is to enter into a contract in terms agreeable to both of course to basically contract with Cabaris County to provide detention officer services specifically for our detainees. So they hire, they train detention officers. They're employees of Cabaris County. We would of course pay for the in the contract would pay for the the salary, the taxes, the benefits just like we would for our own employees, but they are Cabaris County employees at the Cabaris County detention facility specifically to supervise our detainees. This is the fastest way I can think of to generate capacity at our existing jail. first of all for the repairs that are badly needed, locks, etc. But just over give give our detention officers some elbow room. So, uh it would have to be
096it should be a very multi-year contract, four to five years because you're looking at the um construction time if we did anything anyway is going to be in that time frame. And at least uh you know baseline it could it could go anywhere but we could start with a baseline. How fast could you get your supervisory and your detention officers hired and trained so we could ship at least one block of 50 prisoners up there so that we can do the repairs on our jail that are badly needed and continue that contract until we have a new replacement whatever you want to call it facility in place. I think that is frankly the only option. Uh because we cannot sustain a situation where we have a jail with all kinds of cracks running down the
097walls, broken door locks. It is not a safe environment for our staff as well as well as under capacity. I when our officers when when our deputies pick up somebody, somebody has to go out the back door on the street because we don't have the capacity. We have a full-time assistant DA who's trying to figure out how to make room at the existing jail. Now, to me, that's the antithesis of public safety. So, I'd like to see I if if the sheriff would have an interest in talking with his counterparts up there and Sheriff Shaw and see if there might be some kind of arrangements that could bring back to the board for consideration and what funding we would be required and it would be a moving part because they might they might have detention
098officers that they decide to promote out of the contract program, make him an SRO, a sergeant, what have you, and then they would backfill with someone else, but we would be basically contracting with Cabaris County Sheriff's Office for detention uh uh detention space. They have the space, we have the need for space. It's a win-win situation for both. And we of course would still be responsible for medical costs for the prisoners. We would have to pay their room and board that we had talked about previously. I think this is worth exploration. I'd like to if the sheriff have an interest in talking to um Sheriff Shaw and see what uh we might be able to work about back for consideration for this board and what funding would be required. Do you have any thoughts on
099that, Sheriff? Well, I would say this. You'd have to get the sheriff's buy in from Cabaris County. Then he's going to have to get the county commissioner's buy in from Cabaris County. I don't know how that works. I don't know their commissioners, but uh uh it's all negotiation and I'm just not sure what progress we can make without if you want to start, we can start that process. Well, if you don't think it's worth your while, I mean, I I can't think I think I can't think of anything else to create capacity in a short enough time frame frame to address some of these immediate needs in our crumbling building. Well, I agree with you there. It's a I I can't think of anything either. And uh but to do that you've got to have
100buy in from the whole county in Cabaris County or the commissioners and the sheriff. And I'm not sure I thinking about it while I'm standing here and he's somewhat like we are. They pay more money. They hire people at a higher price than we do. They have to get them hired, trained, and put in place. So, that's months down the road. So, I'm not sure how quick, even if we signed a contract tonight, that that could happen. We would obviously have to make it a no- lose situation for them. They're not going to pay just to help us out. They're not going to do that. But if they've got an I'm just and I'm just thinking out loud if they've got a partially or totally empty annex um everybody wins. Yeah, they you're absolutely right.
101They may say no thanks. You you figure I just I don't have an answer for you. Until we talk to them, we don't even know if it's I don't know if it's feasible. Yeah. And let me jump in here. Thank you both. Um, I don't know if Patrick can help me with this or if the county manager can help me with this, but I'm trying to recall the the letter or the statement we received from Cabaris County. Were they having hiring issues that they did not feel that they could um man or supervise our inmates anymore when, you know, when it came to us that that we could no longer send 10 inmates to to Cabaris County? We're still sending 12. I mean 12 up to 12. I think after 10 or 12. So I'm
102trying to recall what that letter from them was. Was it that they didn't have staff that could do it or they were having hiring issues or what what was the situation? So So my recollection is that that was related to our request to try to send a block or more of inmates, which is roughly 45 to 50 inmates. And at that point in time, and sheriff can correct me, they did not have the staffing level to take on that additional 45 and they had concerns about going out and trying to hire when really there wasn't any kind of commitment for that. And that was my recollection of the concern that they I think you're right. Uh that that's not got anything to do with the ones we're sending up there now. Uh there that's available
103now and we're we send we've got inmates there now. Okay. And we're still um contracted for 12. I mean, is it 10? 10, I believe. 10. Okay. It is 10. Okay. So, that that is still happening. It was it was just the request to send a block. That's correct. That's right. We were trying to do the the renovations for the the locks and the painting and the other things, and we can't do that in the facility without moving those inmates out. Okay. I think they would supply a supervisor, but we was going to have to send our officers up there back and forth, inmates, transport, all the things that go with it. Okay. No, you can't do that. I think I think you said the key there would have to be a longer term commitment.
104We don't we just don't need the space until we get our fixes made and then we're coming on home. It's going to be until we have a long-term answer ready to go online. And plus for Cabaris County, this might be uh employee pool for you. You might find some star detention officers you turn into sergeants. Um get them out on patrol, what have you. We just lost three to them. Three patrol officers. Can we contract them back? I wish we could. Three experienced road officers. I for your opinion if you you feel it is worth the exploring. Uh if you you don't I certainly understand this is you it's not going to hurt us to call it ain't going to hurt me to call Shaw Shaw. I'll be glad to do that if if you
105think it's worth your while. I don't know whether it is or not to be honest with you. You don't know till you ask. Right. But but I don't have a problem calling him. I I talked to him all the time but I had talked to him recently. But um glad to do that. We're 18 down now, by the way. Is that 18 detention officers? No, that's road officers and and detention officers. 18 total. Mhm. Do you know the split? How many roads versus how many detention officers? I don't I didn't ask that. I just asked how many we had down because I knew somebody's going to ask tonight. And when you say down, you mean vacancies. Vacancies. So, what's the hiring pool for? I mean, what's what's the time fra frame to be being able
106to fill five, 10, 15? Well, you might want to wait till you get through this next one on there. Okay. So, we're sort of shut down now. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Sheriff K. All right. Yes, Commissioner HS. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, Sheriff, I'm sorry to bring you back. I just didn't want you to get too far just in case you want to chime in on what I'm what I'm going to ask. So, um, listen, I I commend Commissioner Size for for trying to think of of creative solutions. My only concern is is that yeah, I wonder if this is like like long-term cost for a short-term solution, you know, if we are able to work something out because and and listen, maybe I'm wrong, but and you can probably speak to this better than
107anybody, but you know, if you if you bring in like let's say the Cabaras had to hire, you know, detention officers to, you know, cover uh the inmates that were sending their way, I wouldn't imagine that you would make a hire on like a temporary type basis. No, you won't, you know, or even like a two-year basis. I would imagine that it takes significant training there for CEOs and and and you know, just deputies in general. But I I would think that that's a that's a a big initial investment that of course the county, our county would would probably have to cover. But I just don't know if you know if they would be and and you never it never hurts to ask. I I understand that. But I don't mind. But I I would
108if I was in their situation, I think I would have consider considerable reservation in taking on that staff only to potentially let them go, you know, a year down the road. So, well, I I I totally agree with what you're saying. And I think the key the the only the best hook for this for Cabaris is it's not a short-term deal because we're already seeing here if we started tomorrow to build our own facility, we're looking at four to five years. So, we got to have these people somewhere for four to five years. So, it's not a one-year commitment. It is a significant multi-year commitment. So, um, I I wouldn't do it for a year either. I mean, I wouldn't if I was going in to be hired, I wouldn't do it for knowing it
109was only going to be for a year. I'd look for a a a real job of long term. I'd come down here to Union County, of course. That's right. But, you know, and that that's all part of it. Okay. How long would a commitment have to be to make it worth your while? You know, each individual have to decide that. Yeah. Thank you. Um, we're going to end that one and we're going to move on to the next business item 25-297, the budget amendment for the Union County Sheriff's Office. I want to recognize County Manager Brian Matthews for this item. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So this item um the board had asked previously for some additional information. Um this is related to a number of of issues related to um salaries um overtime
110pay um payouts for individuals who have have left employment whether they're retired or whatever as well as incentive payments. Um and so it's not just an overtime issue. I want to make that clear. Um I I think that there may have been a misunderstanding previously that this was all intertwined around o overtime and that that's not really the case. There are a number of items where the sheriff's office has no control over and and it's not necessarily budgeted within their budget. One of those is the item where we do the payouts for those employees that are leaving employment. The last few years that number has continued to grow significantly. and this fiscal year it's going to be over $300,000. That was not budgeted in the sheriff's budget. Um what is not also budgeted in the
111sheriff's budget are incentive payments that we pay for our um our deputies and our employees with sheriff's office that you know they get to a certain point where they maybe they're a master deputy or whatever the the the category is they get some additional incentive bonus for that. those were not budgeted within the sheriff's budget. Um that's $50 $60,000. Um and then there's also the cost of the realized cost of our holiday pay. While it was the right thing to do to certainly cover that holiday pay for our our our um employees, the real cost of that is starting to come to roost. We did we made an estimate, but our estimates were low. And so we're seeing that cost higher than what we anticipated. That was not budgeted for necessarily in the sheriff's budget,
112that additional cost. Another thing that was not budgeted for is uh the sheriff's overtime budget, while it has grown as far as usage goes, the amount that that we allocate for it has not grown in the last five years. and the cost of a per hour or or the wage has not been factored into that. So, while it stayed roughly around $400,000 over the last few years, um the cost of paying for an hour and a half overtime is greater than what it was four years ago. So, those are all things kind of combined led to where we are today, which we have a deficit in the sheriff's budget that covers um salaries, benefits, and what the sheriff was talking about is he's on a freeze right now. He can't hire anyone until we make
113the the board makes a decision to put some funds back into his account. So, what you have before you are sort of two items. one is a ratification of a decision you already made um to add $150,000 back to the budget for the sheriff's office. Um you know, after looking at that, we felt that it it just needed to be officially ratified because the language was a little wonky when we did it last time because it was on the fly. And then you have an additional budget amendment and CPO for $636,267 which will make up the difference. and and we believe carry the sheriff's office until the end of the fiscal year. So you add that 150 plus the um plus the 636267 and you get a total of 786,267 uh dollars. We anticipate that
114that will be enough to cover the sheriff's office until the upcoming fiscal year, end of the fiscal year. Knowing what we know now, we are going to factor into the budget those items that previously were not put in the sheriff's budget because again that's that was not any of his doing. So we're going to put that stuff in his budget so that we can number one track it. Number two, it's there. We know it's there and we can plan for it and we can adapt for it. Um but I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. That that is the action that's in front of the board at this at this point. Commissioner Sods, where's the money coming from in capital? What are we not doing in order to transfer these funds renovation budgets
115that are appropriated? Can you come up to Beverly? So, if you recall in the capital budgeting process, the buckets that Chris refers to, um, this is the sheriff's office portion of the repair and renovation buckets, um, that has been appropriated for the past couple years annually to pull from those pools for any repair and renovations they may need at their facility. So, so it may not be a specific project. It may be just a a pool of funds that are available. Now, I'm not saying there isn't a specific project that might get put um delayed, but it's not necessarily a specific project. Well, let's hope that project doesn't happen in an emergency basis. Um I got to say I got I got two issues with this, not this specifically, but the bigger picture. First of
116all, I'm concerned that a $900,000 hole in a budget shows up the first meeting in May on a consent agenda. Why hasn't been that this trend been tracked along the year? Why didn't we know about this at half a million? Why didn't we know about it at a quarter of a million? And all of a sudden, I got to tell you, at this time of the year, at the end of the fiscal year, I expect to be hip deep in new budget. I'm going to need some handholding. This is my first time around. And coming around and filling holes in the current fiscal year just in my mind is not responsible. Now, we we should if you're telling me we didn't see this coming, I I have a hard time with that because you can
117you can see trends. It doesn't just pop up overnight. Issue number two, and this is also a budget issue moving forward. We have got to address this retention issue. We can't train these good people, get them out on the street, and and then they get stolen by somebody else because we're not at market rate on paying these people, and we got to start all over again. We we can't afford to have uh holes in in our public safety uh personnel. I mean, you I don't have to tell you all what's going on around here. We have gangs going through you. You got fentanyl being sold. We keeping our schools safe. We cannot afford to let up at all on on the valuable staff that we have here to keep us safe. So, that's got to
118be addressed. And I mean in this budget. And if we have I I I'm talking about if we've got to pay more, we got to figure some other angle. We need to do it and do it now because this is a personnel drain that we cannot afford. As the sheriff said, these folks don't grow on trees. They've got to be trained. They got to be experienced. They got to be equipped. And we can't afford to keep losing them. And as far as I'm concerned, I'll speak for myself, but public safety is a number one priority for me. And whatever we got to do, we need to do it. And if that means coming off, you know, uh compensation needs to be enhanced, bonuses, I you you all tell me what'll work, what you want to
119do, but it's it needs to be done. This needs to be addressed. We cannot afford to keep losing this valuable personnel. H um Beverly, you said this money's uh the close to $800,000 is coming out of the sheriff's office bucket. How much is remaining in the sheriff's office bucket, if you will? I'm sorry I don't have that data with me tonight, but we can provide it for you at a later time, please. Yes, Commissioner Helms. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, so, so look, I I share some of Commissioner Sai's concerns and and I think that's one of the reasons why, you know, we uh we I probably got the motion a little, you know, wonky the last time we discussed this, but um but I I do think that there's obviously a need to be
120more proactive um rather than being reactive. And uh and I was pleased to see that uh the staff is developing some strategies there to make sure that uh that we are properly planning, you know, for these types of things in the future. Um so so I I want to be clear, you know, with everyone out there that uh that we are trying to write that ship and be proactive with our budgeting for things like this so that we don't have this this same situation occur. Um I mean, obviously the county doesn't have an endless supply of fund balance. um we don't have an endless supply of, you know, buckets of of money there for capital needs that we can we can use for for these things. So, I think that, you know, proper planning, proper
121budgeting is is certainly in in order and and that's the best practice. It really is. Um we need to know, you know, what we're up against so that we can better plan in the future. So, I just want to say, you know, although this has been a little eye openening, you know, for us as board members, um I do want to at least commend staff for uh trying to write that ship and and being proactive for the next fiscal year. Okay. I just want to verify with Jason K. Is this action written the way you want it um given? because that's all I've got to go with. Um my understanding is that this is the recommended action that is being requested and if this is the goal that they intend to accomplish, it is written
122to accomplish that goal. Okay. Let me know if I miss anything. I want to make a motion to approve capital project ordinances 347D and 367 C. And secondly to approve budget amend amendment number 34. Okay. See a lot of heads nodding. So any questions? Okay. All those in favor say I. I. Very good. Next on the agenda is item 25-36 county funded lobbyist discussion. As this item was re requested by commissioner sides, I want to recognize him now for this item. I'll make this even quicker. I'll make a motion that we forget about having a lobbyist and save the 60 grand. Are there any questions, comments, discussion about whether we have someone in Raleigh to keep us updated or not? If if I could just provide a little context for where the RFP is, it
123it closes tomorrow. Um, and so far we have had three firms submit. Um, we do not know specifically who yet. We won't know until everyone is able to submit. Um, but you will have that information tomorrow. So, um, obviously Commissioner Sides has recommended not going forward with that. If you do want to go forward with that, um, you just need to think about how you want to try to evaluate those. We can submit those to the whole board. The board could appoint a couple people to review those and bring back recommendations. Um, but that process does close tomorrow if you did want to continue on with it. Commissioners, oh, I'm sorry, Commissioner SC, would you like to table that until we can see who who did respond? Frankly, no. But I'll go to the pleasure
124of the group. We communicate regular with our legislative delegation. I think that's all we need. Unless staff can tell me something that a lobbyist has done to our benefit in the past, I say forget it and save them the trip. Commissioner Helms. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, listen, I for for my opinion, um, I think that we've already gotten kind of gotten knee deep into a process there where we're looking at, um, at U lobbyists that may be able to help us in Raleigh and and Lord knows, I mean, we've, uh, we've seen a lot of things coming from Raleigh um especially, you know, here lately. So, um I I don't know if if I'm in favor or or not to be honest with you, uh Commissioner Sides and and I say that simply because
125I don't know what I don't know and we haven't seen the information from uh the folks that have given us um at least, you know, something back with our uh request for proposals and and RFQS. So, I I would prefer to at least see what it is that we're working with there with what we're getting back from that process before we make any decisions. And, you know, we may look at it and we may say, you know, we don't really like it like like these options. We want to do something different. In which case, then I think, you know, what Commissioner Sides is proposing may certainly be in order. Um, but until I see what we're getting back, I'm not ready to table the entire process. You want to look at the what paperwork they
126presentation they submit or in-person presentations because if you're talking about in inerson presentations from lobbyists I think I'd rather go have a root canal without anesthesia through through the chair commission commissioner size I'm not saying that I disagree with you um but but what I am saying though is is that is it it's becoming increasingly more important and we've seen this with you know HB76 65. We've seen this with SB 382 beforehand. We're seeing it with SB 688, you know, where local government is consistently under attack. And and so although I may not be the fondest for, you know, consultants and lobbyists, um I do recognize that we have a significant need for any assistance that we can get with the state legislature. Does our county commission association not employ those kind of resources? Of
127course, we might have to pay a little extra to actually throw in get a lobbyist, but don't they advocate for counties? I mean, that's kind of what your association's for, right? We do. And we we get um we've been getting emails from the North Carolina Association of County Commissioners, and they have been actively, for example, going um opposing um 765. But um let me I I didn't mean to cut off um county manager if you want to speak real quick. I I was only going to say that that you know whether you want a lobbyist or not the the the county association is really concerned with North Carolina goals and not necessarily individual county goals. Um and I'll give you a classic example. uh when we wanted to have some legislation changed for us um
128related to, you know, our um how we were dealing with system development fees, which weren't system development fees at the time. We got special legislation for us for some of that stuff. So, that wasn't North Carolina and the county association isn't going to help you with that. That's not their role. Even if you pay them, they're not going to do it because that's not their role. Their role is as a state as a whole. So whether you want one or not, the the benefit of having a lobbyist is that they can focus on your individual county needs. And I just want to speak real quick. Um, what I remember from a few months ago is we were not getting weekly updates from from our lobbyist, but our staff was getting weekly updates that we were
129unaware of um what they were seeing and hearing um in Raleigh and our staff was aware of that um and and we we didn't know that they had it um until until we asked or brought this forward. I would like to turn it over um to Jason Kay real quick. Just in no way to truncate the debate here. Commissioner size may be just getting rolling with another dental analogy. But before before we get to that point, uh just a reminder there there is a motion on the table and it's within commissioner size discretion as to whether he wishes to withdraw that motion. I know there's a lot of discussion and and debate at the moment. I just didn't want us to lose that. I would give to the group if you want to go through
130I assume reading at least initial presentations from these folks to determine you actually want to haul in here then hey y'all need some extra reading fine by me I'll withdraw the motion we'll um withdraw and we'll um proceed with the process and um wait and see if there's going to be the three or more. It closes at 5 o'clock tomorrow. Uh 11 am. 11 am. Okay. Let's um table this commissioner sides and um let's see what we get tomorrow. That would be great. And I want to give staff an opportunity to look look those through those as well and um and then bring it to us. Sure. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. takes care of that. I will now recognize county manager Brian Matthews. I have no comments. Thank you. Okay, I'm going to
131give Commissioner Sides a little break here and we're going to start down here. Commissioner Balkam, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, but I have no comment. Okay, Commissioner Helms. Um, first of all, I'd like to thank everyone who reached out for calls, texts, prayers um during my daddy's passing. Excuse me. I apologize for not being here. Um, but since I was not here, let me go ahead and also let everyone know that I was in support of the resolution that this board passed for HB765. I think it is a grave injustice what our state is doing and I'm very disappointed in our local representatives that think this is a good idea and how incredibly tonedeaf they have been during this. Um so I I want to make sure that's out there. Um, in I can't
132remember the date, but several months ago, we asked the state legislation for additional funding for additional judges for our court systems. And I'm going to ask staff if we could reach back out to them um to see where we are in that process because I think that will help tremendously in including with the discussion that we had tonight. Um, and this week we also had um the peace officers memorial and um thankfully my family who was in law enforcement, they have all retired um made it through every incident that they encountered. And we I think I can collectively say for this board how grateful we are for um our sheriff's office and our municipalities police staff that they have and just to let you know that this board very much appreciates and supports you. Absolutely.
133And we're happy to have you back. It's not the same when you're not here. So, and but we we missed you and um but your family, your sister, your brother, your mom, everyone's in our thoughts and prayers. Okay. Okay. Um I do want to say that the um the ceremony we had last week remembering our fallen law enforcement um officers. It was extremely moving. I was um I just continue to be so proud um to live in Union County and have the men and women that wear the uniform that um go out there every day to protect our our county and our towns and um and we had an amazing um wife who who lost her husband. um she it was very moving to have her um there speaking um at such a solemn moment.
134But I just want to thank the Union County Sheriff's Office and Sheriff Kathy um for remembering um the ones that we have lost here in Union County and for um setting aside um a day to remember. And um I I think it does not go unnoticed what um what you do for us every day. I wish we could do more. We need to do more. Um I do want to recognize um we had a a really great announcement this past week. Um the superintendent of Union County Public Schools um was named um superintendent of the year for this region of North Carolina. Um I think this is his third time being nominated um statewide um for superintendent of the year and um and we wish him the very best and um this will be my
135third time saying that he is the superintendent of uh North Carolina. Um I did not realize until a week or two ago that he's been here nine years. And so um um we brought we brought Dr. Hulahan and his wife Shannon uh to Union County. they um he um is a North Carolina native and um we were excited to um for him to leave Houston and u bring his little children at the time um to Union County and he has truly um served our 53 schools well and our 42,000 students and our 5,200 employees and our amazing SRO program that we have developed that where we were not one to one and over um over his tenure we are now um we have SRO's in in every school and some of our schools have more
136than one and um and they are beloved um among these students um they are true heroes in in those schools and um but I I do want to recognize Dr. hul a hand and say congratulations and and we hope that he can go to Raleigh and bring it home, but even if he doesn't, we will still call him superintendent of the year. So, um I will pass now over to com Commissioner Helms. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um uh first of all, I want to thank all of our speakers tonight. Um obviously, you know, that engagement is very important to us. Um and uh you know it's always good to see some participation from the community. So thank you to everyone that spoke. Um couple of things here. Uh first of all, as a UCPS parent,
137I want to give a shout out to uh Mineral Springs Volunteer Fire Department. Um I happen to attend field day at a uh school within the system on Friday, and on top of it being extremely uh hot, um it was also extremely fun to be out there with the kids. And I want to thank the fire department because of course they uh they showed up as as per usual and made everybody's day a lot more fun whenever they hose down all the kids out there. Um so um aside from that um just to give a brief update, you know, we had a lot of discussion on this board last uh the last time we met on HB765. I want to inform the public that HB765 is still alive and well. So the latest revision was
138referred to the finance committee and what that means is is that uh it being in finance means that it is immune or exempt to crossover deadline rules. So that means that it can be revived at any time and can be heard and furthered by both chambers. Um, also of note here is is that current revisions, um, the latest revision does include a 275,000 population requirement. Um, in regards to density, that's important because Union County sits right now is like the eighth largest. We're sitting somewhere around 260,000, but with recent approvals and construction going on in this county, we're going to be very, very close to that number. very soon. So, um it also did not repeal SB 382 uh which included um removing the local government's ability to down zone. Um so, it also did
139not do that after we were told that it may. So, I wanted to at least uh provide that update. I want to thank uh the people for everything that you've done in contacting those at the state level. um it's really because of your efforts that we've gotten this far. So, thank you to uh to everyone that's made calls or sent emails. Um aside from that, you know, we've got Memorial Day coming up and uh I you know, I I just think I I would like to at least recognize the sacrifice of those that um that have paid that that ultimate price for our freedom. And so, you know, Memorial Day is not about having a day off. It's not about hot dogs and hamburgers, but it's recognizing that sacrifice that was made to protect what
140we hold dear. So, uh, so again, thank you all. Have a good night. Thank you, Commissioner Sods. Um, Commissioner Helms, I want to also again extend my condolences. Having lost both my parents some time ago, it is a hole that is never filled. But it is my sincere hope that there are plenty of good memories that at least help on time of reflection. I also want to again state my determination that staff working with the sheriff's department determine what we have to do to curb this attrition rate. We cannot afford to lose these good people. Now, personally, I'd like to see options. The the board, the full board or the majority of the board may not support all of them from a financial standpoint, but I think it is imperative that they be presented, discussed,
141and and studied, and for board action. And so, I I'm determined to see that happen to keep these good people. The other thing is I would also like to ask for the next agenda to include a presentation from the government efficiency department. We have um did I name that correctly? All right. I I wrote it down. You know what I mean though, right? U I I would like to have a presentation with their success stories and um in this day of Doge. I think it the people of Union County be very interested in knowing what um local efforts we're doing to make sure their tax dollars are going as far as possible. So if we could set up a presentation for our June meeting um of course all other items having place I would appreciate
142it and I wish you all a good evening. Okay. Um I will accept a motion to adjurnn. Okay. Good night everyone. Oh well. Yeah.