001um I started with and I want to start with because just kind of talking about starts with uh it kind yeah it kind of starts we kind of start um very often with this idea of what we call the ABC of behavior that there's something that's called an antecedent um antecedants are the things that are happening around us that we are experiencing through our site our hearing our smell whatever um and then because those things are happening around us we then react to them and our reactions are our be are the behavior and then however we react whatever that behavior is there are consequences um consequences are often the term consequences often associated with like negative or punishment but really consequences are just any outcome from the behavior um so right now an antecedent for
002most of you is I'm talking and showing slides um some of you are listening some of you maybe looking at the slides and that's why you're choosing to behave and then the consequences are you're just maybe learning some new information or maybe getting a refresher of information is that kind of how that works but one of the things that's important for us to really understand is that it it's really not a direct path from the antecedent to the behavior because what happens in between we experience something and we behave is that our brain does some work um and our what our brain really does is is it tells us how we should feel about the about the things in our around us and what kinds of thoughts we should have and then based on those
003feelings and thoughts we choose a behavior in response and all of that happens in our brain but then all of this pattern in terms of antecedence and the behavior and the consequences all happen in our different school-based environments um so I just before I even go any further and try and talk about where all the different committees kind of fit into this diagram does anybody have any questions or or need any anything explained a little bit differently so that we all have a clear understanding of this basic model okay good we're good okay yeah we're good okay thank you um so um the first committee I mentioned was the assistant principal PLC so what you can see is their work is kind of laying on top of this model starting with a behavior happens and
004then there are consequences um and they're really focusing this year um in terms of this inter interrelated work on um designing and enhancing um what's currently referred to as a discipline Matrix for the for the district to kind of get an idea of giving guidance on um like when certain unexpected behaviors happen how should we respond if we do have to like when do we just call a parent when do we do a suspension when do we do restorative practice all those kinds of things are part of that Matrix and the assistant principles are working on on designing and enhancing that practice so that we can have consistency on that end of this districtwide the next committee um right is that um Equity Justice and advocacy work um and it really focuses a lot more
005on the front end of this in terms of establishing environments that are very thoughtful in terms of of of our equity and how we're making sure we're treating kids fairly making sure we're building environments where kids feel um safe um and um and supported um and that work is predominantly being done through ongoing work with District leadership in what they call Deep equity in terms of its study and then also through the youth Equity stewardship or yes programs that are happening at our schools this year with uh different grade levels of students at different campuses then there's the behavior and support committee work which kind of overlays on both of that it's really going to be focusing on um how are we prevent preventatively um supporting Behavior so that unexpected behaviors are less likely to
006happen how are we when we do get to the consequence side how do we make sure those consequences are about teaching and reteaching of skills and how and addressing skill deficits both in terms of social skills emotional regulation skills um is so that perhaps we can teach and make sure everybody our students have the skills that they need in order to maybe have different types of feelings and thoughts when different antecedence happen so they make different types of Behavioral choices the last committee then is this committee and it kind of lives around all of that um while the three the AP PLC this the um Equity Justice and advocacy committee and the behavior and support committee are kind of doing their work in hopes to be able to start implementing things pretty soon um this
007of course we're now looking at board policy and what will happen as we go on is that in information from those three committees about what where they're going will kind of feed into some of our discussion and then as we start coming closer to recommendations and certainly when we get to recommendations what we're thinking and what we're recommending will then go back and inform some of the um practices that they're putting into place so anybody have any questions about the four committees or how they kind of fit together yeah um so and if you explained it and I just didn't please feel free to explain it again wh which one of uh which one of these committees is responsible for in some part uh for equal maybe equal as not Equitable uh implementation of uh
008of uh of processes either interventions or Consequences for from site to site so it's all three of them in their areas so um when the aps are working on the discipline Matrix it it's the intent of that is so that when we're dealing with the consequences of the punishment types of pieces that there's equity in terms of how those are happening across the district for the other two committees um their work is also about all all the work is really about making sure that we're building towards that um um consistency from sight to site um so that you know if any student moves from one school in our district to another school in our district they have a certain expectation of you know of what's going to be expected of them and if they were
009to you know violate the the school rules in any way what they can expect would happen in terms of processing that and and addressing that so yeah a followup question and it's if the proper person ask or if anybody in here is can answer this do do do you feel like that is successful and the reason I asked that question is because I I've gotten feedback too and I've heard feedback from different sources over the year and my understanding is that is an issue that there is not consistent implementation um when you go from school to school and if if I'm wrong that's please tell me I'm wrong but I've I've heard from you're right definitely people are watching um and they're reaching out and um and I'm I'm trying to filter it in a
010way that is a little bit more presentable um but there's a lot of frustration um and uh and it's not from one particular site there's there are some hotpots where I hear more than others um but the the anecdotal it's not statistical it's not it's not conclusive the anecdotal evidence that I get is that um there are some serious problems so if I if I could take that one James just because um you know this is something we've been working on and the reason for the multi-layered Committees is kind of us trying to get our hands around that exact thing but what I'd like to preface it with is one of the things that I learned over the course of the last week or was perhaps reminded of is that very often um two or
011more things can be true at the same time even if it seems like they can't be true so you know my answer to the portion of like has there been Equity across the board of what consequences are for you know different types of things that happen at sites I think it is simultaneously true that there is more Equity than is perceived and yet there's not perfect equity and so the the and actually feel free to jump in Brian and Adriana because you've been part of the AP group and so what's happened over the last couple of years is um Dr dupin's been working with the aps to try to create more standardized practices and to really create a strong integration of restorative practices and you know one of the things that sometimes gets confused is
012people think oh well this person had a restoration but they also had you know a disciplinary consequence well the two aren't mutually exclusive sometimes certain things carry a disciplinary consequence but there still needs to be a restoration to the school community and sometimes the restoration to the school Community is adequate in and of itself because of the nature of whatever the situation was um I think one of the reasons that there is this anecdotal sense of a lack of equity is very often all of the details of a circumstance can't be shared due to privacy you know rules and responsibilities around things like you know furpa and Hippa and all of those types of things so there are times where two situations very much look the same and I'll give you a quick example without
013using any names um in a very brief period of time we had two completely different BB gun incidents but the in one of those incidents there it was a broken BB gun that never left a backpack and was never brandished and in another incident there W was a functional BB gun and the handling and things that happened with that Babb gun were different right so you might say these happened at two different sites and two different sites handled the circumstance differently but in fact what happened is there were two similar stories at two different sites that had two very different specific set of circumstances and those specific set of circumstances carried different levels of weight as to what the potential consequences of those circumstances were so in an anecdotal at an anecdotal level someone might
014say oh well we had these two and at this site they overreacted and did this and at this other site you know there was there was Zero consequences in those circumstances as well sometimes the nature of the student themselves makes a difference what's the age of the student is it a special education student is there you know a difference in cognitive capability to understand what is happening so a whole weird situation itself is under the as well right right and we've had we've gotten the opportunity to have some wonderful conversations about that so but there's now yeah exactly so um yeah yeah exactly so um so there you know and that's probably not the world's best example it's one that came to mind pretty quick but I've I have had the opportunity in the district
015to listen to people talk about well this happened here and that happened there where I've had a deeper knowledge of what the two incidents were and could tell that those folks were overreacting to the differentiation because it was really not the way they perceived it but also be in a position to not be able to correct them because the things that I knew I knew by nature of my role and I'm not allowed to divulge them to other people so um so that's that's why the two things can be true at the same time I think sometimes people have a false sense that things are inequitable but I will also say and I think I think Brian and Adriana would agree with me we have not had a perfect system we've been moving towards Improvement
016but there really hasn't been sort of a a set of uniformity to anyone satisfaction and that's one of the reasons that the assistant principal PL plc has taken on this concept of building a matrix to try to create you know at least a tool set to be able to create greater U standardization and a way for you know different people to know what's going on because the other thing that sometimes happens is things don't always happen on the day that the that the assistant principal is well and on site right sometimes they're not there and someone else is stepping in so having those tool sets helps it be more functional for the right things to happen when things sometimes go wrong um and then that's also part of the reason for the desire for the
017behavior and support committee because as we're seeing increases and challenges and based on the model that Allen showed us one of the things that we know is we very often are running a foul of a lack of executive function skills and one of the things we're really observing in the district right now um is we've had elevated student mishaps due to lack of executive function we're actually starting to see a lot more of that with adults right now as well and so you know one of my suppositions is I think I don't think there's a lot of coincidence in that I think one of the reasons we've seing these increases with students is because students really only are able to build their skill sets based on what's modeled for them and so one of the
018hopes from this team is to try to find some ways to help support students with the those skill sets so that way we can help them have those and Allan described this very eloquently you know even in the consequence often that retach component of how do we help students have the base skills they need to avoid getting into this circumstance again is really the critical component because most people don't wake up in the morning and say I'm going to go to school and I'm going to create this situation you know typically it's more along the lines of the model of what Allan showed where there's an environment of circumstances and I would say things like aces are also incedent so now I'm using jargon so I'll correct myself so um and someone will have to
019help me with the acronym yes thank you adverse childhood experiences and the concept of this is you know as we go through childhood you know for for some children they have some pretty severe experiences a child and those traumas stay with them and they impact how they will behave under a certain set of antecedents that is different than a child who maybe did not have those adverse childhood experiences and then even beyond that when we talk about some of our students with very specific needs um one of the things I learned a long time ago doing Safety Committee work in another life um autistic students when the fire alarm goes off they don't line up orderly and go out to the field they find something to hide underne to get away from the sound right
020so if you build a model for clearing a room that has autistic students in it you're likely to not have a successful model and so you know and it's just one example of where a behavior might be different because you know a child is somehow neurologically different and so we need to factor all of that into these behaviors and supports as well so that's really why this work is so important so we're really trying to get to how do we standardize things things better but even by standardizing them better there will at the surface level appear to be differences and those differences depending upon you know people's perception of them you know we make up our own myths right like when we don't know you know why the rain falls from the sky we you
021know there's you know there was a fight in the sky and someone's crying right or whatever as opposed to clouds and whatnot when we don't know why there appears to be a difference between what happened at Brian's school and what happened at Adriana school we make our own suppositions but what we don't have is all that background information about what were all of these other components of antecedence that led to despite it sounding like there were similar events than being sufficiently different that the consequences are different go ahead I'm sorry um I was to Echo what you're I think that um a lot of it is behind the scenes like the coming together and the having common ities uh somebody who was once on the AP text thread um they are constantly working through talking
022about like well what did you give for this situation yeah but this they'll like say and well here's a mitigating Factor here's an aggravating factor and so those conversations that they're having is almost like a slow burn process to like a really strong commonality and how we respond to discipline um and they do take into count so what you see on the outside of what their AP work is is like this kid got suspended and this kid got a sort of conversation at a lunch detention but um what we aren't all privy to is the conversation that the schools are having together and that has dramatically increased in the time that I've been I was an assistant principal for four years but from my first year to now way more communication with the team I
023think and what I can say it is at least daily if not more that something is being brought to the team to say hey so this is what's going on um and without sharing like identifying details we get what are the circumstances and then we talk through and sometimes we don't have initially the same reaction and then when we propose different reactions then we talk through okay but now let's let's figure out where we should land and so the AP team has been doing a lot of that I think part of the work of the PLC let me brief that I know the purpose of the work of the PLC is because we're doing all of this but it's not visible yeah right and so we're coming up with something that is visible that is
024easy to understand and I will tell you that is the hardest part of what we're trying to accomplish with it is to take something as complex as multiple conversations weighing the mitigating factors so the pieces that make this hey there like there's some understanding of why this Behavior occurred and there were other circumstances in play the aggravating factor is like hey so this behavior is a little bit more concerning or alarming because of this this and this right trying to find a way to lay that all out in a format that is still useful is what we're working through right now as the AP committee the AP PLC and that's what we're working on but that idea and going back to what Jay said that idea that the appearance of inequity will be there is
025likely going to anecdotally continue our our goal is to put on paper kind of the processes that we're following so that everybody can understand it with that one but anecdotally because there is so much information we get from the interview that even the teacher in the room who first reported the behavior isn't aware of we talk with the student we find out what those feelings and thoughts were that aren't readily visible and that plays a large factor into what's happening that plays a large factor into where do we go from here because ultimately and Allan's talked about it and Jay's talked about it the goal with pursuing a consequence where we are imposing a consequence on the student is to provide them with the skill set so that the next time they're faced with a
026similar set of events we don't see this unexpected behavior that ultimately is going to cause harm either to the child who's showing the behavior or to other children around or other people around we're trying to kind of get through all of those pieces and I think the only other thing um is that it's so easy for us to or I will speak for myself it's easy for me to often see where the problems are and not to notice when the like sailing is smooth and so I think that there's a lot of stuff that we've are doing now that like we weren't doing a year ago that a bunch of schools are are all doing together um but we take for granted that it's there because it is working the easiest one for me is
027like Community circles we've been talking about Community circles for several years at some schools but it's just the past year two years that like all schools have been doing community circles so I I okay I um I I think like the the teacher side has probably focused a lot more on the A and the B and not really uh so much on the C because they rely on leaders to fulfill the C part and often times it becomes situations where your options are some variation on suspension or in school suspension once it reaches that level right the the A and the B part I think where the the teacher teacher comes into play is so I'll give you an example there was a teacher that was saying you know I've reached out to my principal
028to ask for S support and help and I feel like my teach I feel like my supervisor is only concerned about whether or not I have an objective and success criteria posted I guess that's a thing now in the district um and that they the conversations are really focused on that and not so much on support on the different options that a kid could have and the different things that are available in the toolbox to be able to say how you know what can we do with this kid and in some cases their extreme situations described as extreme anecdote take it for what it is is that they're they they're like you know I'm bombarded with all this paperwork and stuff that I have to go and do before and all the burden is on
029that so the only consistent process that I'm aware of is mtss that we all use throughout the district and within that process they're like well I don't know if I should even bother with that because nothing's going to happen anyway and that's not happening everywhere but it is happening at certain schools according to them um and I just I I wonder about that is that uh is that a team based thing is that a policy based thing is that a process side because the flip side of that is that you have people that are set up like they'll say well this is this teacher is really really good this teacher does a really really good job and uh you walk into their room you're a part of their room and you see in their room
030and it's it's they're quiet but they're quiet for a reason and it's usually because they're afraid because that teacher has a real Stern hand and stuff anecdotal stuff all that St but I just feel like there's the the the difficulty here is and going back to what he was talking about is it is there a district wise consistent form of like this process or is it individualized based on the situation and can they both exist simultaneously I don't know I I'm just asking the question if I'm understanding kind of the Synergy of the different committee how we're working together there were a few things to unpack in the concerns that you had there um and and kind of sticking with the ones pertinent to the direction we're moving in with the policies there's a lot
031about controlling the environment that everything is happening in that's going to control the antecedants to our behaviors right there's a lot about setting up a healthy environment and that is a lot of the work around Equity Justice and advocacy right that's part of the other Behavior committee I don't remember what was called I AP behavior and support behavior and support committee so they're focusing on that they're also looking at how do we help students to process the feelings and thoughts when we are in a situation that something is happening right and so yeah we have District work coming alongside there some of the policy work that we do can inform what that is one of our questions is does this match who we are right and so that can inform it I'm going to be
032honest the assistant principal side that's mostly focused on what's Happening after the behaviors as well it should be it's going to have some impact on some of that when you have students who are repeatedly showing different unexpected behaviors um and that's going to come into play because ultimately the purpose of like I said earlier imposing that con has to be how do we provide the student with the capability of not showing the unexpected Behavior given the same scenario in the future right and so to answer your question James I think for the parts of the concern that are specifically focused on managing behaviors and different things like that in the district the four committees that are working right now are going to take steps towards making sure it feels more consistent in it looks more
033consistent and it is more consistent right now there are places where we are very consistent where it maybe doesn't feel that way or look that way um prime example is the applc work doesn't always look that way or feel that way we are getting more and more consistent with it because we talk all the time um if I ever walk away and can't look at that chat for an hour I come back to anywhere from five to 30 messages of people going back and forth and getting information and not all of them are about Behavior some of it is about stuff like evaluation some of it is about stuff like sports and different things like that but there's a lot going on that I think we need to show what that is and that's part
034of what the Committees are working on this year is to show what it is that is already getting more consistent and then to continue to work towards that consistency I think ultimately what we're doing here with the policies is going to have to drive some of that consistency in other places agreed yeah because ultimately I know when we as the AP team are sitting down to look at different things the first place we go to is okay what does our policy say about this because if our policy has something in it that talks about this that's our first resource that's our first thing that we have to make sure anything we do is aligning with that and so if there are concerns in terms of kind of globally how things are being handled the policies
035and the wording in the policy is going to be one of the key components to look at to make sure we are moving forward um could you describe you said that they're more and more consistent this year the Committees could you describe some of the successes that you feel consistency has been we are working towards that consistency so we are working to become more consistent and more visibly consistent that's the purpose the in what are told the behavior in support committee has representatives from multiple areas within the district with the intention of making sure we're becoming more consistent with it the equity Justice and advocacy working group they are working on do we have consistent programs in place to create the environments where students need to learn are we giving students consistent skills coping skills
036is what we call them right um to process the feelings that are coming up in a way that's going to prevent a behavior that's potentially harmful right so there are places where we are working to become more consistent already what the Committees are doing in this is one making it more visible making sure that we are sharing the information hopefully and then two continuing that work of okay so if we've got this piece down what is the next piece of that and that's where we're going to be working okay I I'm sorry if i b i it's not my intention to bog down it's just I for me with with this I I I I agree with the communication part I think communication is important um especially when you're talking with because n other people
037just want to know and sometimes you're right you can't tell them I get that but um uh I I think it would be helpful in when going across these policies and however this goes however this gets communicated is that um that I'm able or that we're able to go and go back to people and say Hey you know this is the consistent parts that are happening um I I know a big thing was training um that people just feel like they lack a lot of training and how to deal deal with situations and the other piece was options right there is a feeling among some that their option is find a way to deal with this kid either on your own or among your team they'll just go and move that kid from Team to
038team I can't take him anymore can't deal with it you take him for a little while tag you're it because if they send them to the front office they get sent back right and that's the perception I know that's one piece of the pie and I know but that's that's the perception that goes along with it right so they they feel like there's if you're not going to suspend this kid if you're not going to in school suspend this kid what what is happening you know what what is going on and um I I think that that's an important part of the work that in my opinion is not consistent across I think it depends on the effectiveness of the teams at each school um and um it it's something that that if there is
039consistency to be found I think that's the place in my opinion because right now there are there are sites from my perspective that are doing really really well and I'm not saying they're they they don't have problems there are problems there are things that are going on um and I don't know maybe it's the resources that they have at their disposal that aren't available at other sites I'm not sure um but there is a perception that a few sites are not there yet yeah and one thing I just wanted something you said triggered a thought for me too James like um you mentioned in one of the examples like somebody said hey I'm having all these behavior problems can you help me and the feedback they got was are you implementing these instructional strategies right
040and the two really aren't um separate because uh one of the things that we're learning is we always used to worry about engaging kids we don't have to worry about it every child is engaged the question is what are they engaged in or by so if you if you don't have you know posted objectives and success criteria the child doesn't know what they're supposed to be doing I know when I was a kid when I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing that's when I got in trouble right because I'm I'm off task it's the same thing like with um one of my favorite tool sets that we don't that we sadly don't have everywhere is a tool set called audio enhancement where you sort of got the speaker system and the teacher
041as a mic and they don't have to yell they can talk in a nice even tone like this and everyone can hear and the reason I love that tool set is it's one of the few technologies that there is a ton of research that it says it improves behavioral outcomes for kids which subsequently improve learning outcomes for kids because there's less disruption in the classroom and the reason for it is super logical because if I'm the kid sitting in the third or fourth row of the classroom and I can't hear the teacher clearly I can't hear instr instruction I don't know what's going on I'm going to find something else for myself to do by virtue of finding something else for myself to do I'm likely to create a problem in that classroom but if
042I can clearly hear instruction and what's going on the likelihood that I'm going to be engaged in what the classroom's trying to do is much higher and so so that's I it it worries me sometimes when I hear people say well the feedback I got was to improve instruction well maybe that's not the total answer and that's not fair and that person needs more support than that and I find that completely valid but to throw that out with well that's not going to help me at all I don't think is valid either because you know in reality if kids are having an amazing learning experience the likelihood that they're going to be disengaged and and embarking on poor behaviors is less I also get that it's extremely difficult that create that perfect learning wonderful learning
043environment when you have some students that are problematic for you and you're feeling like nobody's helping me deal with these students so again one of those circumstances where where both things can be true at the same time yeah and I don't I don't I don't want to come off as being um like attacking because I can tell you that there's just as many comments and feedbacks that I got from people that are upset about and anecdotal upset about teachers right they they feel like there are some teachers that shouldn't be in the classroom they just should they're they're ineffective to the point of like they'll they'll yell at kids they I've heard things about people teachers cursing I mean it's it's a big deal right so I'm not saying it's a leadership issue I'm saying
044the consistency where you have that you know that you have you can't like I always my question was you know you can't you can't teach somebody to be nice right but you can give people strategies and have expect and saying you know what you're going to be this person this is the expectation I have and the the teachers their attitude is like this person makes me look bad right because then other people they think oh well the whole the whole team is like that you know and it's just it's a bad situation right so I I'm sorry that that's my piece I just didn't want I felt like I was like oh leadership leadership no that's not in you weren't doing that you probably were seeing me being like okay okay but you weren that
045was we processing you I just think that like the the policies and stuff and I and I and I I hope I'm not taking us off into a left turn here but the I I think that's why it's that the lenses that we talked about I think that the the consistency is is is Paramount in my opinion well and I think when we get back to the work too we had mentioned we would talk about like what questions or what feedback might we want to get from other people but we can kind of like focus in because they're going to hear this meeting and they're going to have thoughts right and so we can kind of all gather that together so I think that we're gonna we're going to get that feedback and so it's
046great that you're sharing it but once we like kind of get into it I think we'll have like more actionable things to respond I think one of the other things to keep in mind is the consistency comes from the implementation of the policy the policy in itself what we write should be internally consistent if it's not internally consistent we've got a lot more problems anyways so as we're going through this we want to remember that we want to build something that is easy to to one easy to understand where we're going with but also building something with the thought process that we need somebody to be able to consistently um and so with that I'd like to start looking at jic um here's the great part we talked about the four lenses we want to
047look through we didn't talk about how we could actually track recommendations um so I have it pulled up in a Google doc right now um what I can do is airPlay it onto the screens and then if there are edits we want to make I can remember how to turn on tracking edits and go from there yes you have jic is what you have right jic okay yes um while you're doing that can I ask what was what was the guidance from the governing board on ji and jir that's coming hav had a meeting yet oh gotcha and then also Hilda and I had a conversation but maybe my brain's not working correctly we landed on the same page about that so we don't actually need to go back to the yeah say it's not
048I figured we weren't doing that today anyway in this meeting so I didn't need to like go all into that Megan can you tell me how to spell your last name I got the BR and then I didn't know what letter came next and there were too many people popping up I couldn't see your name um all right so I've shared that let pop up there let's play the game where it's way too small for anybody to read right now and you can tell I opened a new window for this because there are only three tabs at the top so with this one our four questions are what are the statutory requirements I'm writing and talking and I never do that well I apologize what are the statutory requirements and I'm blinking on the rest
049of them does anybody remember them are we align with our vision thank you um feedback loop of other things that's going on and is there something we can do is there something there we go is there something that we can do can I see that oh I just it what are the statutory requirements how does this align with who we are what are we missing and how does this work in practice I don't know yeah um I like your avatar Megan did you um share it with me I did not apologize would you like sure what is yours it's just Catherine I it's our first initial our last name right yes K Gibson m i could even remember what it was thank you uh s St a UT statute stat oh yeah so it would
050still be UT or1 give me just a second that's a pretty neat right what are we missing and then how does this work in practice and how does this work in practice so with that in mind starting with jic this first paragraph where it says the Stu or superintendent will establish regulations governing the conduct of students in school traveling to and from school at school functions or affecting the school order in establishing these regulations the superintendent May consult with student or staff committees in addition to compliance with regulations established by the superintendent students are expected to obey all rules and regulations adopted by the governing board and to obey any order given by a member of The Faculty or staff relating to school activities it's a lot of words yeah any thoughts on on the
051like so kind of looking through it de any order given by a member of yeah I think we are words SMI thing because that's what it's going to to like change the cultural implications of some of these policies and then don't finish your conversation I'm I just want to make sure they or at least that was my intention situation what do we want to do we can go a through K first we can do the paragraphs ask question as my question is what in this particular policy is actually statuto required to be in the to be in policy because before we worry about word smithing or what do we want to change and I agree I there's a lot of word smithing I'd like to see happen based on the philosophy talk about this whole
052this whole section is is a little awkward to me but yeah but it starts to me like what in here is actually St I know there's a couple places where ref first the statute and there certainly references to statute but what if this is actually required to be part um I think the first part uh is a way the first two sentences are like a way to kind of lay the foundation for the delegation of the superintendent Authority here and so that's kind of necessary um and then it also those specific things that the superintendent can do are certainly laid out in statute as far as as it come as far as the last two or the LA I guess that's one long sentence at the end um that I think was a freestyle as
053far as I could find when I was looking through the statutes in this particular uh policy there's nothing about obeying orders and rules the only thing that statute talks about obeying is a lawful like order or request to leave campus when somebody's trying to trespass somebody but other than that there's no language like this in a statute anywhere so I think that last very long sentence can be modified a lot and it just refers to an expectation yes so it it really doesn't have any functional use because it's just an expectation yeah so I would say we definitely need the first two sentences to stay in their meaning yeah maybe you could like maybe we could go through this and highlight things that are areas for change and then come back to them as through
054or just to get our first little um I like pink okay it's my favorite color so we're going to highlight things to come back to that are not required to be in there and pink so things that are not required instead of required correct so my what my understanding though were you you were just speaking to what's required in this first paragraph then when you answering my question yes sorry you want to and then I was gonna have us go through and I thought maybe we highlight as we go which which is fine okay I just mind I just wanted to make sure that as far as the next sentence uh yeah that's pretty much uh from statute so we'll probably leave that in there as is um doesn't seem like there's anything much freestyled
055there um and then as we go on that very first um now this is where it gets weird because like this first part is like an introductory part that's kind of on its own that doesn't actually not you know it's an expectation right what is improper Behavior that's up for discussion right but now we know that we have this list of things that are statutorily improper but other than that you know we'll get into the weirdness of all this but obviously that intro line is something that can be edited if we want to add or take something out or change what the words are exactly um and then some of these in this list as we'll go through are statutorily required and some of them are Quasi and some of them aren't um the first
056one um is directly related to a criminal statute that's the next that's listed in the next one down which is uh 20 911 so any conduct intended to obstruct Destructor interfere with teaching research service administrative or disciplinary functions or any activity sponsored or approved by the board uh technically that is covered under 2911 because it's also threatening or interfering or disrupting an educational institution so it's all in one in that statute so I'm not sure why they put two subsections here but they did um but they're basically all covered under that one criminal statute which is anytime you see the 13 that's a criminal law anytime you see the 15 that's the education [Music] lawas yeah so yeah exactly and then yeah so physical abuse harm or threat any person yes uh because again that's
057going to be covered under that's the statute listed in B so yes a little redundant going on a b and c so maybe there's a way there to combine things so it's not there's not as many I don't whatever you guys decide but there is there is some differentiation because there's a difference between the threat and the conduct so yes but there're like like you were saying Katie that that could be kind of combined into a single letter where they're all interwoven yes but all the three of those are all laid out and covered in 13291 and is all considered criminal and 15 student uh 15841 is basically the statute that tells like how schools are allowed to expel or put kids in alternative education programs so yeah it's kind of like related all right
058damaged or threat of property damage to to the district regardless of the location or to property of a member of the community or a visitor let me just look really quick at 13 2911 because otherwise criminal damage by itself you can't just get with a threat so just one second yes so it's still covered under 13 2911 typically if somebody at your house is threatening to damage your property that's not going to be criminal in this sense but in because it's special to this 13 2911 threatening to damage the property is still covered under this essentially a lot of this is all the again this is still covered under 132 911 I don't there's a lot of subsections in that law yeah and I think e is as well yeah I was going to I
059was just about to say that um yeah forceful or unauthorized entry into an occup or occupation of District facilities I think there might you know be a way to have like one section that has subsections of all the things that fall under the statute and then maybe you move on to the other stuff um okay so then so maybe a through e kind of get lumped together and you could figure out how to address them all together if you want to color those blue too I guess okay um okay so F the unlawful uh you possession distribution or sale of tobacco alcohol or drugs obviously that's not just um a state thing but it's also a federal thing and so that's got to stay in there but it's not under that 13291 statute that's can
060be found in state and federal law but I think the way it's written is pretty basic so um and then those uh I if it's helpful you know um if we want things to be more accessible to people you could consider um providing a glossery or something like that as an exhibit because these things are all defined in the criminal code and so to make it especially for people who aren't familiar with the criminal code like what does possession mean um oftentimes people get possession confused with ownership and that's not true so um you know you can have joint possession you can have constructive possession um and all those things so constructive possession is like um this pen right here like you all have constructive possession of this pen right now because you could walk
061over here and pick it up if you really wanted to it's you have the ability to exercise Dominion or control over this pen because you're physically right here and you're able to do it and so if this was a bag of methamphetamines you also would have construction constructive possession because you're aware of what it is it's right here and you could exercise Dominion or control over so if you didn't call the police you would then also be in possession of the nean fetamines if it's just sitting here um and so that goes for a car um it goes for a classroom it goes for you know whatever space you're in as long as the person has like knowledge of its existence you can have possession of something if you don't know it exists that's the
062Wiig caveat but then it's also sometimes that's a sticky situation how do we prove knowledge of of the existence so these are such weird this is what I'm talking about when I say like when you have a kid in a situation where you're like the way this then gets interpreted in like the juvenile adjudication system or the adult criminal system and we're getting down to this like wild stuff that no regular person on the street is thinking about let me think about if I'm constructively possessing this bag before I hang out with you in this car or something you know so those are the kinds of things I'm saying like sometimes a glossery might be helpful here obviously distribution or sale a little more easy to Define but you know could also be helpful as
063well um for some folks um um or other illegal Contraband so that's an interesting one what do we mean by that um obviously tobacco alcohol drugs makes sense I don't know what that means it's not like it's not like there's a definition of a legal Contraband in a statute anywhere so I think you guys would have to decide what does that mean because that's a place where someone at one school and this is when we're talking about consistency can decide I think this particular item is illegal Contraband and maybe somebody else at another school thinks it isn't right right and then you could have some consistency so that's a I think that little section is a room room for change for more clarity I guess yeah but it's it's I think it's also a catch
064off with things that are not um known at the time of the implementation of the policy so the best example I could give might be like a vape pen right so that vape pen might not contain alal yeah exactly IED at the store right yeah um all right letter G conduct or speech that violates commonly AC accepted standards of the district that under circumstances has so this is basically obscenity um this is the definition of obscenity all um this is a First Amendment thing and who knows this there's no way to change this because this is just the definition of obscenity and it's Up For Debate but it's the commonly accepted standards of the district so I think that one's really hard to touch I would just leave that alone I doubt we're really cracking
065down on Free Speech here at Kon School District so most most of the complaints have been about the opposite okay okay feels like a high school thing failure to comply with the lawful directions of District officials are there on Law Enforcement Officers acting in the performance of their duties and failure to identify themselves to such officials officers were moly requested to do so that's pretty much required um it you know you could provide some clarity on what identifying yourself means like because some people do want to know like how much information am I legally required to give somebody to identify myself right um you don't actually need to give someone your social security number or your birth date even you just need to give them your name okay so that could be something where you
066can provide Clarity otherwise it's pretty well cut and dry there with the law um knowingly committing a violation of District rules and regulations proof that an alleged violator has a reasonable opportunity to become aware of such rules and regulations shall be sufficient proof that the violation was done knowingly um [Laughter] what it's one of those ignorance in the law is not yes oh okay yes um that statuto required let me just look really quick I don't think so but let me double check this might be like a district thing that was about to that like that like saying I didn't know I wasn't supposed to steal that pencil kind of thing yeah or I didn't know that this was a rule here because it wasn't a rule of my last school um yeah I think
067this one's up for some change engaging in any con uh conduct constituting I mean good luck with this one but yeah sure pretty much is the Su catch yes and then carrying or possessing a weapon this is where I think um that needs to be more specific the term weapon is not actually even a definition we use in the criminal code it's either a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument there's actually no definition of just a plain old weapon so we should probably clarify that and the the federal laws are talking about deadly weapons any this pen again my favorite thing can be a dangerous instrument um and you could you know if I stabbed you in your neck right now be an aggravated assault right so we would miss you so but I didn't
068shoot you or actually stab you with a knife so I didn't use a deadly weapon um so anyway we just want to make sure we're clarifying what we need that is a dangerous instrument yes it is a dangerous instrument depending on the use for it right well and even with a knife whether it's a dangerous instrument or a deadly weapon again the knife um has to be designed for lethal use and we get into that a lot and it doesn't even just have to do with the length but there is a big part of it the length of the blade um whether or not it's like a switch blade versus you know a fixed blade is it double-sided is it one-sided I mean I've had these arguments I hire knife experts all the time when
069I want to argue with the state about this I mean we can go to town um but there are definitions for all these things in the in the statutes that we can clarify so people are absolutely clear for the most part as clear as a statute is sorry I forget that I do something every day that other people probably don't and I know I joke about it at the board meetings but I didn't really just mean to bring up stabbing in the neck you know you know when you're just desensi to things people are like are you okay um all right moving on um in addition to the general rules set it forth above students shall Beed okay this is too much mumbo jumbo back to refusing back to yeah the refusing orders this can
070all be or changed um the next part um I think goes directly to 15841 but we can word it better in a way that doesn't sound so like or that's more easily uh like consumed I guess is what I'm trying to say uh local shall be notified regarding any specific that is a serious offense involves a deadly weap or dangerous instrument that so this goes to the mandatory reporting statute I don't even know if that's listed on here but there is a mandatory reporting statute that's separate from uh like child abuse or sexual or physical abuse manif reporting this is for schools um they're required to contact local law enforcement for these issues a anything that involves a serious offense or involves a deadly weapon dangerous instrument that could pose a threat of death or
071Serious injury um these are all things that have very specific definitions serious physical injury has a specific definition that's different than act than regular physical injury um we just talked about dly weapons of dangerous instruments also um a serious offense that's like a very specific list of offenses that's already laid out in the statute so I think there's while it's pretty clear here I think maybe there's some opportunities to provide explanation for what these things mean and then obviously that last part is you know the delegation uh thing uh you know and that's already going on I you know you want to keep policies broad obviously and so I think the type when you're doing policies is trying to figure out how do you how do you find uh wording that um is Broad enough
072to get the job done but specific enough for people to know what they're reading but also something that can maintain a certain um standard or system beyond the people who are implementing it right now or you know Crea it right now and that's kind of the hard part so and cre and help with that consistency that we talked about earlier yeah all right so now we know what parts of this need to stay and what parts we can actually look at um if we come back up to that first paragraph in addition to compliance with regulations established by the superintendent students are expected to obey all rules and regulations adopted by the governing board and to obey any order given by a member of The Faculty or staff relating to school activities can I ask
073a question yeah um just in terms of uh my own clarification on how these flow um student discipline and student or student conduct what what's exactly that does one flow into the next is like student conduct the overall and then student discipline is the I'm having trouble like figuring out student conduct is like the overarching policy that's at the beginning of this kind of series of subsections that then there are some that have you know more specific subjects that they're addressing as far as like the nuts and bolts of discipline that's more of a um because we again we don't want to get into the weeds here with what the actual daytoday like this Matrix type thing is not something that goes in policy and so this is kind of lying the scaffolding they're framing
074they're like building you know the house kind of thing right like so there's all these things that build on each other this is kind of laying like the Baseline for what needs to exist and then you know kind of the more specifics as far as discipline goes are going to be like at the next level yeah taking guidance from these policies right and in JK it kind of outlines the limits of the discipline itself so so in in jic they're saying these are the types of things that could occur that would result in discipline in JK they go immediately into um if this is going to include an out of school suspension or exposion these are the criteria that allow for that level of discipline so and it doesn't necessarily hit all of the levels
075of discipline it hits more those most extreme levels of discipline and and under what circumstances you cannot so it's sort of more of like the outer edge of it it's not like the range it's just don't do not step past this line and I think JK is where we get to the opportunity one obviously to bring our F policy into the 21st century but also um to expand you know if we have a whole like um subject area of discipline that we think is like a possibility that's a aside from an in or out of school suspension that we want to add to our District's Norms then that's where we would put it and I know we got to pay attention to time so and and and I had a hard sub so I read
076theing but I just want to leave this thought because I'm guessing we're gonna have to continue some this work next time my concern with this policy as written is that it really isn't talking about student conduct it's talking about what students aren't allowed to do yes and it does not even speak at all to that superintendent um regulations are supposed to even focus on what we're expecting from students like right it's right and I and I'm concerned about that and so one of my questions is like all that ly of ABC like is that even required to be here at all yeah no I'm not and not that we necessarily need to get rid of because I know it's important information but so and then I've got some more is and I think that's where
077I was going with the idea of wanting to see if we could have like whatever that introductory thing could be of like Norms or things that aren't as like no no no no no don't do this or like we are these people right this is how we behave and treat each other yeah and I think that's why we were hoping to do j i our first because we felt that we could create some of that tone there yeah yeah understandable thanks Alan thank you all um have a great we with that you too we are coming up on the end of the scheduled time um could table this conversation until the 28th at this point we everybody has access to this document everybody can see the conversations that we've had so far you can go
078back you can elit feedback knowing now how can we combine these blue ones the pink areas are the areas that really these aren't statutory requirements we can talk through what that means and then knowing we can always look at adding additional pieces as long as the policies stay internally consistent can we comment on the document like in the document I shared it with full editing rights so everybody in here has full editing rights to it um Adam I did not share with you but we will get that part figured out so that I can share with you and you have access to it in between also Adam how are you feeling after everybody's just running their mouth all the time you have any questions or thoughts or anything no confused no what do you think
079about the conversation so far [Music] well Adam it's pretty cool to have you here yeah thank you we appreciate it man I for Adam we had a really good conversation about what these met and like talk this is if your mom did the CRI this is if you did theken down but I for for him and for meide we talk that's well I think one place Adam May really be able to help the committee is when we talk about you know that student conduct and the expectations Brian was referencing you know as an actual student you might have a good sense of what should the expectations for a student be you know and I think that would be really helpful to get your that's a great conversation to have yes is so what I'm thinking
080is if we're going to table this then next time we can come back we can talk about the highlighted parts that we want to actually tweak and change and then hopefully get into the next set of doing the same thing with that next set so that in between we can we're actually setting ourselves up to have the conversations with everybody outside this room come whatever there okay are you going to Google dock the next ones too what's the next one I will Google doc everything um so what we wanted to do was ji and J next no no I was like which is the next one but then he just said so we're good yeah now we can look at those so you said J would be the next one we all talk about ji
081and J and J ji and J because ji is the actual policy ji is the actual policy and J is the reg there you go regulation behind the policy so going into those pieces November 2th is oh yeah we yeah yeah I think it would be helpful to like put in comments and things right in the Google Doc that's really really helpful if we're all commenting on one document outside of an open meeting does that break any oh it does I'm realizing yeah so what you would need to do is sorry good good point Brian I should be more on top of things um you probably need to just have your comments ready to go so what I you to the next meting will take away everybody's editing rights does that count for editing too
082yeah because it's almost I will change it all to a viewer and then you guys can look through it do whatever and then when we come back when we're back in the room I'll reopen it for everybody to edit again that way we don't accidentally break any rules don't we already have the pdf version anyway I guess it doesn't matter just so we do have the pdf version anyways what the Google Doc version is going to give for you is we've been I've been making comments as we're talking as well as highlighting and right kind of working through that part it'd be easier to like make a copy and then put your own little personal edits anyway it's always hard to edit I have to remember not to edit this one tried to highlight a
083PDF oh my God I spent like way too much time trying to figure that out there you go in all caps what it says do not violate in a uh I changed the title to at the end it has in all caps open meeting document so that I do not accidentally edit the open meeting document and therefore violate open meeting laws after I was the one in the meeting that pointed out we need to make sure we're not doing that um got it so with that our next meeting is November 8 we had already talked about we didn't need to schedule anymore until December 14th in the future so I would like to motion this is really weird and maybe we could ask Jessica at a future date I know this is really out there
084if there was an ongoing notice of a possible meeting and that document was available to the public and listed on the website for viewing purposes but then we were the only on with adding purposes it's worth asking I think it could potentially comply with open meeting law that's definitely worth asking what are you suggesting I'm suggesting that we give the public viewing access to this document while we all have editing access and then on our website we say that there's a there's like a notification of a continuous meeting in this regard and then people can always view whatever edits have been made on this document or whatever and they can see who's the one commenting and who's all that you can do that well we don't know that's what we're going to I'm saying can
085you do that yes does it comply with open meeting law I don't know that's why I'm asking him ask the attorney you can stand on one leg too I just can't do it for that yeah I'm just trying to think of ways to make our job easier because I know the more we're able to collaborate and do work outside of this hour and a half the more we're going to accomplish it's a very efficient way to work and so it's just a question of can we find a way to get a compliant and it it could theoretically as you were describing be something as simple as saying the committee will continue its work through colle collaborative document that's available for view by the public between meetings or something like that so at this link on
086the website yeah so she says yes I'll also ask your for the language for our posting so we make sure whatever language we put in there is compliant okay that would be awesome and only because technology permits look at us in 2023 well just like we didn't it wasn't necessarily a thing where you could stream meetings years ago right yeah exactly and then they had to they had to suddenly change rules because we didn't have anything but streaming meetings certainly all right well thank you everyone again I move that we adjourn the meeting I second all in favor it is unanimous thank you thank you don't stop the meeting