Ways and Means Committee FY27 Budget Meeting May 11, 2026

001Uh May 11th, Ways and Means meeting. And this meeting is being recorded by the Ways and Means Committee. If any other persons present are doing the same, you must notify the chairperson at this time. Whether you're recording here in person or online. No recording. Okay. Um I'm going to do a roll call of members. Member Bottomly? >> Here. >> Member Simmons and Al? >> Here. >> Member Webb? >> Here. >> And uh Patty, I can't remember your last name and I don't have the list. Williams. >> I'm here. >> Patty, are you here? >> Member Williams. >> I feel like I'm here. >> I'm not here, so Um We have no approval of minutes at this time. If you are here for public comment, if you are online, you can put your name in the

002chat. Your name and location, please. And then I'm going to use this one. I don't have a green bag tonight. There's usually a bag here that has everything I need in it and I don't have it. So. A little funny. But if you are here for public comment, you can sign up right here. If you have a good pen. And I'm going to Yeah, I'll just give people a minute to sign up. >> You're good to go. >> Um And just for know, any citizen has 3 minutes to speak in public comment tonight. And um I'm going to just say this at every ways and means meeting until our budget is passed. I'm going to ask for um decorum and Robert's rules to be followed. I'm going to ask that there's no um disrespectful interactions,

003name-calling. If there's swearing on the floor, I will actually pause this meeting until decorum um can be continued and then we'll start again. So, I'm just going to ask for everybody to be respectful. I know there's a lot of feelings about budget at times. It's all been great this year, so let's keep it up tonight. Um okay, so would you mind reading the first the name in the chat box? Could you just read it? >> Eric >> Molly Merrett. >> Are we starting public comment now? >> We are starting public comment. >> Okay, great. Um hi, Molly Merrett. I live in Precinct 7 in Greenfield. Um I am here just as a Greenfield resident and a parent just weighing in on the FY27 budget. Um I feel really disappointed that the schools are again um

004pretty severely underfunded. Um From my understanding, they're not even level service funded to to what they would be to continue the same service from last year. Um and I'm also really upset about the rec room uh middle school rec room position being cut. Um I understand that we're here to talk about the public safety operating budget. Um Looking at the Greenfield Police Department budget to be honest, it just looks really um inflated. And some folks have been looking at it and trying to add the numbers up and a lot of the numbers really don't add up. Um There's not a lot of transparency. Um It's not really clear what certain items are for. Um $40,000 for clothing, $30,000 for trainings and meetings. Um As a resident of Greenfield, I want money going to our schools.

005I want money going to our kids. Um Providing activities extracurriculars um good programs in the schools for our kids is preventative public safety. Um it will keep folks um doing positive things, having positive things to do. And um I think we know that Greenfield actually has a pretty low crime rate. So I don't understand why our police department is so overfunded and our schools are so underfunded. Um As I said, I'm a Greenfield parent. I really would like to send my kid to GPS. Um I know a lot of parents who choose to choice their kids out of the district. And we lose so much money because of that. And I'd really like to keep my kid in Greenfield, but if I watch the schools getting underfunded year after year, that's a really tough choice

006to make. So I really hope we can reverse this trend, invest in the schools, stop giving the police everything they ask for without even understanding what they're asking for. Um I hear parents saying this year after year. So, please listen to us. Our kids are the future of Greenfield. Please listen to us. Thank you. >> Thank you. I'm going to go to in person. There is >> You want to go to the mic, Josh? >> It's just you. Welcome. If anybody changes their mind, you can put your name You can sign up right here for the public comment and just say your name and where you live. >> Yeah, of course. >> Um >> Hello everybody, in person and online. My name is E.J. O'Banker. I live in Precinct 6. >> I got it. You're

007on my counselor. >> Um I also would like to kind of echo some of the points that Molly made in her comment. Um primarily, I am here at this meeting to kind of get more information and uh contacts into uh the public safety budget as that's what we'll be discussing tonight. Um but, I want to kind of reiterate some of the points of uh where we're sort of investing our how our investment as a city reflects our priorities and values as a community um and thinking about which departments and which areas of our city are sort of asked to uh make do with less and tighten belts year after year and which departments uh seem to be able to sort of like continue as normal without being asked to make sacrifices. Um I understand it

008was a very complex and nuanced uh topic um and I have but several others have been spending the past week or so um since the mayor's budget was released and I want to thank the mayor um for all the work she put into that. Um really kind of digging in and trying to digest that document um and find some clarity about sort of where our money is going and what the biggest cost drivers are um and I just have some questions about sort of why certain decisions were made, why certain things have been prioritized over others. I know there's been lots of conversation around the rec room position. Um Molly made the point that funding schools and after school activities is a public safety uh investment. Um I know, you know, if you have a

009bunch of sort of bored middle schoolers after school, would you rather have them in a place uh supervised, uh you know, doing putting their energy to a positive direction, or would you rather have them kind of wandering around creating perhaps uh you know, minor problems that the police may have to get involved in when otherwise they may not need to. Um so, I would just like to kind of holistically say that uh our city budget should be a moral document that sort of reflects our values as a city, and I would like us to sort of think about if we have this one pot of money, um where are the investments that are going to have the most significant impact into the well-being of the people of Greenfield. >> Thank you. Is there anyone else

010in person who wants to give public comment? Now's your time. Okay. >> I can hear you really quick. Yeah. Um my name is Michelle Samuels. I'm also in Patty's part of the part of Greenfield. Um I just want to really quickly echo what a lot of other folks have said that uh where we are investing uh really shows what our priorities are as a city. I was actually really struck on my way here. Uh I on Federal Street passed um two ambulances and four police officers responding to a man sitting on a bench um who they were all talking to. Um I don't know what they were responding to in that instance, um but that felt like one of many times that I've sort of seen very large responses to uh uh folks existing in

011public in Greenfield uh maybe being a disturbance, maybe not. I don't know. Um but it does seem like we put a tremendous amount of money into policing in Greenfield. Um and then we seem to have a lot of officers with not a lot to do. Um whereas we know that the schools are underfunded. We know they continue to be underfunded. We are now talking about cutting uh a record position, which I believe the salary of the person who'd be doing that job is about a third of one police vehicle, um of which I believe it's three every year. Um just want to reiterate what a lot of other folks have said that we are really getting a sense that what we prioritize here in Greenfield is a lot of policing um and a lot of

012asking the schools to continue to tighten their belts. Thanks. >> Thank you. Anyone in person who would like to give public comment, you can just say your name and where you live. >> I'm Annie. Um I live at 23 Linden Ave. Um I don't I feel a little underprepared, so I apologize for that, but I just want to say like thank you all so much for what you're already doing. I know that this is probably very hard and like there's a lot of competing priorities. I just really want to echo I think um I am a person who's trying to make a decision about whether to become a parent and I really love living in Greenfield and I really, really want to do it here. And I'm public school educated. My mom was a public

013school teacher. I really want to be able to become a parent in Greenfield and that is what I'm here I'm here with that hope to be here with everyone trying to co-create the Greenfield that we all want to live in and I think we've heard from a lot of people that like we have this vision of what we want Greenfield to be and we have an opportunity to put the money where it needs to go so that people can do the things they need to do. We know I know because I was raised by a public school educator that they are doing absolutely everything they can with the little that they have. This is just how it is a lot of the time with public education, but to the extent that we can change that

014here even in a small way and and put a little more scrutiny. I think I was reading something recently that was like to criticize something is to love it. Like to really be critical and look critically at this document, I think it means that people here love Greenfield. And I just want us to show that love in the form of yeah, public safety that's a that looks different, right? We have lots of different models and just yeah, want to voice that and appreciate you all for what you're doing and let's make this different. Thanks. >> Anyone else in person for public comment? Can you just say your name and where you where you live? >> Um yeah, my name is Kyle Ziegel. I'm in precinct eight up on Devonshire. Um echoing what you just said,

015also under prepared, but I really just wanted to express what everybody so far else has been expressing that um it's really frustrating to see in Greenfield, a city where there is a lot of underfunded qualities of our city to see a police budget that is lacking a lot of transparency, and at least in my personal anecdotal experience see a lot of the policing in Greenfield just not really seem like it makes much sense to me. Seem like we have more positions than need be. Um all of the accurate facts to express here, but um I'm slowly learning more about like police officers who get these really robust stipends for having emotional support dogs, things like that where I'm like why are we spending tens of thousands of dollars on things like this that feel quite

016niche when we could be investing this in our public school system. And likewise to what the last person said, I grew up with a >> That's not for you. Sorry, I didn't restart. Sorry to break your train of thought. >> No, that's good. Honestly, that was a good reset for me. Um Yeah, I also I grew up my um mom was a single mother and a public school teacher, so I I take this really personally when the district that she worked in where there was just a lot of a similar situation happening. She worked in a very conservative district, um Middleton, Massachusetts, where a lot of people are very, very adamantly um supportive of pretty brutal policing policies out there. And um I just really don't want to see that happen out here. Middleton is

017this really um conservative and quite frankly really aggressive in the in the way that they express their politics bubble on the North Shore. And it seems really confusing to me when I'm out in Western Massachusetts where um people are taking care of each other quite frankly a lot better out here to see trends like that starting to happen here. So, um yeah, I'll just leave it there. I really just want to see less investment in policing and more investment in our schools. >> Anybody else in person who would like to give public comment? Okay, we're going to move to online. If there's anyone else, could you just read the next name? >> Emma Daley. >> Hi, I'm Emma Daley in Precinct 5 in Greenfield. Um going to echo a lot of things that have been

018said, but I'm concerned about the much larger increase percentage-wise to the police department in this proposed budget than to the schools, especially when this level of increase for schools is not even going to maintain a existing service levels. And knowing that so many families are using school choice to move to other schools and that that loses Greenfield money. And so we're in this perpetual cycle of the schools not being funded well enough and so families not wanting to send kids there. And so they leave and then we end up with less money in our schools because we have fewer students and then even fewer families want because the schools aren't funded well enough and we have to interrupt that in a big way if we want families to be choosing to stay in Greenfield for

019their schooling. Um like one of the other uh people who gave comment, I'm I also really really love living in Greenfield and I want to be a parent and I want to feel good about having kids here. I want this to be a community that feels like it prioritizes kids and prioritizes kids in a way that um not only keeps them safe and meets their educational needs, but you know, takes a really long-term view at at education as you know, preventative public safety, as education, as crucial and I think public education in particular is crucial for a functioning democracy. And if we don't have citizens who are well educated, then we're just making ourselves more and more vulnerable to um strong top-down power structures that don't have the kind of engagement that I think we

020really value in Greenfield and in Western Massachusetts. So I am here to also encourage relooking at this and moving more money over to the schools and to insist that if the police are going to get the levels of money that they want that the um the requests in the budget have the same level of transparency that any other city department has and that we're really able to see what that money is going to and see whether that's worth paying putting tax dollars toward or if that's something that we want them to have a big sale for. Thank you. >> Thank you. You can go to the next person online. >> John McDonald All right. Hi. Uh John McDonald, I'm in Precinct 4. Well, I'm all over the place. Uh I've listened to some great comments

021here. My my initial uh thing was going to be on the after school direct department. Um we are cutting one position. That's not one position. That is 25% of their staff. 25% Take 25% of the school, 25% of the police, 25% of the fire. That's a huge amount. That's a huge amount for the rec department. That's not one position, it's 25%. The person that does the rec uh after school program, bec- my son does go there uh because he needs some place to go after school when we're not home. We don't get home until after 4:00 and I get home closer to 5:00. Uh they've got educational things down there. Uh the kids love it down there. I could I go down there and pick up my son afternoons if my wife doesn't and they

022love it down there. They've learned stuff down there. Um they also have uh um some of the other comments. They're not wandering the streets after school at 2:10. Um I've looked at some of the other budget uh things and I know this is a hot topic and it was a controversy when it was built, but the library I didn't realize they have 12 full-time employees down there. Do we need 12 full-time employees? I'm not going after anybody else's budget, but I would rather have somebody sitting at the library waiting for a clerk than have my house on fire or need a medical service from the fire department because they've been cut 1%. I've heard comments about I've got a police background for over 30 years. I know what uniforms and training cost. Um it's not

023cheap. Some of these are contractual items. Um I don't know. But I also look at the receipts for the town. And this is very important. Uh the marijuana revenue in fiscal year 25 there was 791,000 almost $500. There's nothing listed for 26. There's nothing listed for 27. 27 I understand we don't know what that's going to be because that's all going on sales, what they sell and what their contribution to the town is going to be. 26 we should know three quarters of a year how much is in there. Um So, in 27 do we have almost $800,000 in free cash? We need to fund the after-school program. The after-school program that coordinator does other things than just babysit kids in the afternoon for 3 hours. He works in the office during the day. The

024town likes to brag about things that they're doing throughout the county. They do the winter carnival. They do the 4th of July weekend events. They do the triathlon. They run the Greenfield swimming area. Which rents out they have a lot of out of towners coming into town for all these events. Greenfield likes to brag about it. This >> John, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but you're at your time. So, if you could just wrap up your thought, I appreciate it. >> Okay. So, this coordinator this coordinator does more than just the after school program. My main concern was funding the rec department, but there's a lot of great points out there and I appreciate that. I hope that everybody can get funded with this medical with the marijuana revenue somehow. And I'll end it there.

025Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Um we'll take if there's anybody else online. >> Uh I have no one else in the audience. >> If there's anybody else online who would like to give public comment, you're welcome to put your name in the chat now. We also can take um comment through email. You're welcome to email the city council that way. But if there's nobody else there, we're going to get to our meeting. Okay. Thank you all. Um there was just a couple like housekeeping things before we move. One is um So, tonight we're going to be discussing um fire fire and police public safety dispatch as well. Um and then DPW. There's nothing to be voted on tonight. There's no recommendations. Um it's really just a discussion from the department heads. Um We

026as we move through the budget, we will continue to have these discussions. Um, and just for everyone to know any department that doesn't have um isn't like slated for a current meeting. Um, all small departments will be invited to just come and say their peace to the Ways and Means Committee. Um I think that meeting is in June, but I will tell you all at the end of the end of the meeting when that is. Um The only other thing is um Yeah, it looks like we have the mayor here and we have the finance director here if we have questions. So, we'll go from there. Uh, we have no public hearings tonight. Um, we have no motions. So, we're going to move straight to DPW first. >> Good evening. Thank you for coming. Um,

027so we can start I don't know what we have anything you want to open with or you know, you're welcome to just walk us through or we can start with questions, whichever. >> All right, you want to start with questions. >> Okay. Great. Um We had a We had a discussion last Okay. Page 120 >> 124 is where it starts. Uh first I want to thank you for I know it's like a big week or few for you all as we get the new um >> portfolios >> Yes, the new totes out. But in at like that's I think it's probably the thing I've ever been asked the most about in my four years on city council in the last like month people have been like, "When are we getting the recycling bins?" So, people

028are really excited about it. Um I think we'll just basically start at the top and we can like if anyone has a question raise raise it. We did a pretty deep dive into this one. Um But we have Uh let's see. So, we have the Main Street reconstruction project and bidding out repairs for the Mill Street Bridge is like one of the main goals for 2027. Um And then the other big thing we've heard a lot about is the upgrades um to uh waste management and uh our infrastructure our solid waste infrastructure. I'm wondering I don't have my list with me. But we have a full Trying to see if you need So, we go through administration and engineering. Did anyone have any questions about that section 411? >> Yes, I have a question. >>

029You can go, Patty. >> The coordinator stipend, could you explain what that is? >> That must be for the recycle coordinator. She She's It's Lindsay basically who's the office manager and she's also working getting us recycling grants in the background. She gets a stipend for doing that type of work. >> The grant writing? >> Yes. >> And that one's a 0.3 FTE. >> Yep. Thank you. >> It did not look like there was anything significant differences between the department budget and the FY27 budget, but as far as administration and engineering goes, was there any um any pieces that are critical that you do not have funded in that section of the budget at this moment? Okay. >> And that section cut your expenses by 9% in this area, what did you what did you cut?

030>> Must be just materials that weren't used in >> That's it. >> Yeah. Yeah, that would have been just different materials that they they didn't need. And Yeah. Yeah, because that they're pretty straightforward expenses on that cheap up there. I got >> Great. Any other questions for the admin and engineering section? I'll move us to the city yard section. That one I'm well uh I'm assuming the dash means there's no change, but I assumed that before and I and I was wrong. So, I'm going to still check. >> There's actually no change between FY26 to department to mayor. >> Okay, great. >> So >> Any questions? Um I Is it that we require drug testing or does um is that like mandated by the state? >> Mandated by the federal government. Federal government. Yes. It's

031for um the CDL >> CDL licenses and yeah. >> So >> Yeah. >> A lot of money. A lot of money. Um okay. Any other questions for city yard? >> Yes. The yard materials, what What what that is, please? >> That's for the fire um like gloves, the all those safety gear for the the employees. Um anything that the building might need for repairs. But it's mainly for like buying PPE for for the guys who work through the year. >> Okay, so it's safety materials. Yes, great. >> Yes. Yeah, everything like hats, the rain gear. >> People say. >> Yes. >> Okay, thank you. Any other questions for city yard? Okay, I'm going to move us to highway division 16422. This one uh it's a a 5% increase uh in salary and wages and a

0320% increase in expenses. >> And I think this was another one, yeah, where it was even. >> Any questions for highway division? >> What are the contracted services? >> Um services right there. >> Yeah. Really contracted services would be like any Maybe we have to bring in a guy real quick. >> Yeah, a guy from a company or line painting. >> Yeah, sort of stuff or >> situation. >> That's training like safety trainings. I can say any type of licensing training that get get the pay to get a person to get the CDL licensing. Um there are hoisting licenses training. >> And is this Did you have any um Would it Would this one of the departments that saw a a removed like a position that wasn't filled was taken away or did DPW retain

033all of the positions? >> DPW retained all the positions and and a uh couple positions were added. >> Okay. Um they have a tremendous amount of difficulty filling uh jobs. If you guys want to expand on that, you know better than I. >> Yes, it's the licensing. Trying to find people that are willing to get the licenses and um they and there's the you know how to do this type of work and and all the trainings that they go on with. >> Mhm. Do you have this department completely filled, highway division? >> Uh it was I think we're going to just about fill it. >> That's fully staffed. >> Yes. >> Yeah, and and if you notice in the uh salary budgets here um from '26 to '27, uh we built in negotiations uh for

034those folks. Um they're currently undergoing negotiations right now. We don't know exactly what that's going to be, but we have a pretty good idea what it's going to be. >> Okay. >> Yeah. It's a little bit right now, but >> Okay. Any other Oh, go ahead. >> Um Chase, we were I know there was talk of offering incentives for people that had certain training. Um is that something that has been done, do you know? >> Yeah, we tried to through the treatment plant for like water waste water licensing and and treatment licenses. It didn't work It didn't fully fully work. Yeah, but I mean the licenses are harder and harder to get. >> Yeah. >> I'm done. >> But you're covering the cost to get the licenses and still not getting people? >> Yeah. >>

035Oh. >> You cover all of it? >> What's that? >> You cover all of it? >> Yeah. And and I want to say marijuana use is strictly a federal or under DOT. Is that >> Exactly. >> Is that accurate? >> It's one of them that have >> No, uh for DOT for um a uh CDL license, yeah. So >> It's legal for mass, but you can't have it for the CDL. Same thing for CDL license. >> Okay, any other question for Highway Division? We'll move this to the Traffic Division. This one we saw 16% increase in salary and wages. Is that a new position? >> It's a newly created position, yes. Within last year, two. >> What does Robert the way do? >> He makes all the signs in town. He changes them out when

036they're knocked down or or destroyed. >> Painting. >> Collects meters. >> Yeah, collects all the meters. >> Collects meters. He asks. >> He asks, yeah. Works with all of kiosk companies. >> He collects the money out of the meters. >> Yes, correct. Yep. >> Any other questions for Traffic Division? >> Hey. And you do first item on the second section here. Traffic marking something something. >> Contracted services. >> Yeah, what is that? >> Well, the contracted line painting. All the main streets. >> Yeah, say it again. >> It's all the contracted like the double lines in the middle of the road. For all the streets in town. >> The line painting. >> Yeah, edge lines or for anything else. >> It cover the cost of the materials? >> No, they have actual company come in

037and paint. We don't have that kind of >> Oh, I see. >> We don't have the equipment to cut to paint lines like in the middle of the road or the edge lines. You know >> Also, >> it's a contracted service. >> Yeah. >> Okay, any other for traffic division? Um, bus to service division. You know that that's on is a big one. Um increase hours of 9% increase uh 9% increase overall or over salary and wages 5% overall. Any questions for this one? And my question for this one was is this one fully staffed? >> No, this is the one where we're struggling. Yeah, we're missing two. Well, actually we have none. >> Yeah, right now we're down two. >> Okay. Any questions for service division? >> Sorry, just to remind you guys do

038servicing for all the vehicles in the city? >> Yes. >> For all departments? >> We're trying. >> Yeah, we're trying. >> Yeah. >> This huge. >> Yes. >> What would you need to keep more people in the positions? >> Um Well, we're hoping through negotiations we're going to we've come up with a contract that might be uh with wages that might bring people in, but this seems to be another area where there's less and less people that are doing the mechanic field. So, that's another thing right now. And it's it requires a bunch of licensing, too. Um, we're looking for the CDL to um ASC certifications for the actual repairing of the vehicles, hoisters licenses. Uh cuz you have to move all the vehicles around to test them. Uh state inspections, we do all the

039state inspections for all the city vehicles. It It just for some reason it it seems like it's a field that doesn't have a there's a um group of people that once had like doing that that more. >> And and if don't get me if I'm wrong, just let me know what you guys are looking for kind of a jack-of-all-trades. Working on a diesel and then a Chevy Blazer, you know. >> Mhm. And all I worry is the the snow equipment to the >> I know this isn't answering the jack-of-all-trades thing, but is there ability to work with Lake Region Tech to get extra hands in some ways? >> Yeah, we've been looking into that. Um the the only other issue with that is when um at certain ages like under 18, they're very limited on

040what they can and can't do. And >> Is there a way to make like a pipeline that you can keep going? >> Yeah, we're trying. >> Yeah, let us know if we can help us. >> Sure. Sure. >> Meeting. >> Okay, anything else in the service division? Going to go to the landfill. The one was even across. Um not a big one. Any questions for the landfill? Great. Waste collection. Is this one filled? Sorry, it's 131. >> We have an operable one. So, there's but there you go. There's your short one. >> Yeah, we're all in and out. >> Oh, you have an all for now. Okay. >> And also we're we're we're bringing we're trying to bring in three people in as um uh Mr. Turner. The iron lung project. Yeah. We get them

041in that field and and work them into the licensing. So we've actually we've had some pretty good luck lately. We've actually had one person move out of the this into a higher level position and and I guess it's at the tech level two. And and seems to be flourishing in that, so we are having some better success now. >> Great. Any other questions for waste collection? >> Yeah. >> I do. So 6.5 FTEs in that department? You're correct. >> Yes. >> And the total salaries? $166,134. >> That's right. >> What's the average? I understand it's contractual, but what's the average? >> Well, 66,000 or 466,000. >> What's the average? >> Wait, like that salary for a yearly salary? But hold on. I'm doing the math real quick here. >> Like in the 60s. >> About

04271,000. >> 71,000? >> Yeah. And still have trouble filling in. >> Do we know what the starting pay is? >> Uh it's about 50 or 49,000 or so. The two at the bottom there, those uh operators um they're the they're kind of the our starting salary base right there. So you know, with overtime and things like that, you're talking around 50, 51,000 to start out with. >> Does CTW overall have competitive wages for the valley? >> We're trying to get there. >> No, we're lower. We did a comparison of this. We're significantly lower than surrounding towns. And like one of the big things that's difficult about these type of roles is that like a labor in the laborers union can like scale their pay so much quicker with much better benefits than a labor working

043for a city can. So it's just not comparable. Actually. >> Is there anything that we can do about that? >> Well, they would pay people more, which we can't really do. >> So it's a teamster It's a teamster shop, right? >> Uh it's USPS ECU. >> Yes, like >> It's not teamsters anymore. >> Yeah. Oh, okay. >> They were and then they switched. >> SEIU >> It's United Public Service Employees Union. Employees Union. >> Okay, anything else for waste collection? Transfer station. I had a question about um like the contracted services for like for swim area, public parks, land and buildings. Um are these realistic numbers? Oh, sorry. I'm in parks that I moved to parks division. I got forward to the transfer station. It's so little. Back to transfer station. Any questions before we

044Okay, great. We'll go to parks division. Um which I didn't look at it. This one. What was and one about? So this one we saw an increase of 13% overall. But, yeah, this was That was my question was like, for parks division, are these numbers realistic? Like, swim area contracted services, 1,500, but are you doing all the ground like all the grounds maintenance on the rec fields over there or like on the the trails, the Well, I know there's some volunteers, but other than that, like if a tree falls across the trail, are you going and cutting it? And, um But, so like, are these realistic numbers? Like, if there's a storm and seven trees go down, you're not like swim Oh, like I said, you're doing that, but like So, contracted services are something

045that's like out of our scope. >> scope. Right. >> Okay. And then, you have trees contracted separately. Okay. >> There's trees that we can't do. The actual spend in '25 was about 70,000. So, >> Okay. >> So, they're they're close. >> Any other question for parks division? This is an area that I think like when we hear public comment about quality of life in Greenfield, I just think there's like a lot of overlap with how we resource our parks division. Um and our public spaces, like how they're kept up, so. >> I should give a quick question. I am on the Sustainable Greenfield Implementation Committee. So, that's first on there. Trying to figure out how to mow less. Would that affect your budget if you mowed like once a month as opposed to how often

046you do it? >> Probably would. Yeah. >> See, later. >> Any other question for parks? Snow and ice. Our favorite one. Any question for snow and ice? >> Thank you for getting through this past winter. >> Thank you. >> Okay. And this one And this one doesn't have it, but for the last one I was thinking I was thinking this is that I think when I was looking back, like some of these where we see the larger salary increases are cuz you filled positions. Like a position that wasn't filled in 25 was then filled in 26. So, we're seeing that when we see those like 15% jumps. >> Well, I think it's worth noting, too, like when I first started 7 years ago, the DPW took a $140,000 cut off salaries during COVID because those

047were the open positions. >> Yeah. >> And they never came back. So, when we see these increases, people tend to forget the history of what's happened in the past, too. So, it's been a It's been a long catch-up game, and it's been a problem with um temporary work, I know, in parks. >> Yeah. >> And hiring people and having enough staff to actually maintain Uh so, sounds like a lot of this is getting better, which is great. We're reinvesting in the DPW. And also, the I forgot to mention earlier with the transfer station, it's really important that we have a good workplace. And then we try to improve those for all of our employees. I mean, we're really lucky here in this building. Um but we need to try to do that and keep an

048eye on it everywhere, schools, DPW. Because I think that can definitely affect our recruitment of employees, too, and equipment, which you guys know all too well. >> Okay, street cleaning, one simple just one. Any questions there? Trash disposal, 470. Cemetery, 120. >> I have one quick question before we go back to street cleaning. That's all contracted. Did we used to ever do it, or is it too expensive to do it in >> I think back in my starting in '89, it was us. It was a street sweeper here, but it's long gone. >> How often does it happen? >> Sorry? >> How often does it happen? >> Okay. >> Yeah, unless uh >> They come once a year, and then there's a couple times they come in the spring they come, and then they come

049a couple times after, like to clean up for parades and do the main routes and stuff like that. But they only do one main. >> Okay. Anything else for street cleaning? Trash disposal, sorry. Those are fine. I believe that is your entire budget session. Let me make sure. Wait, where are the materials for this cemetery? >> Flags. When they put the flags up during the holidays and things like that. >> Are there any materials we need to buy? Any kind of upkeep? >> Okay. Anything else for this section? Any last questions for each P T W? Speak now or forever hold your peace. Until we get to the main city council meeting. >> Are there revolving accounts or enterprise funds? >> Oh, yeah. Hold on, the mayor has Oh, is that what you were going

050to say? >> Yeah, just wanted to make sure you knew they had >> 160 >> 165 >> Sewer enterprise is 166 and water is 151. So, let's do sewer enterprise first. >> Sewer and water You're all the way in the back. >> Here we go. 166 >> Six >> Sewer rates, everybody's favorite topic. >> Before we get into that >> Could you tell us what the dewatering project was? >> The dewatering project was for a sludge press at the treatment plant. We have been shipping the waste out as liquid. Now we can ship it out as a solid cake, which now sounds really exciting and fun. >> We've talked about this a lot. >> It works out better for us and it means cheaper to transport and dispose of. >> What's our work for this

051and should be good. >> Large press does sound cool, but I want to see the process. I don't want to smell it. Okay, so this like in 2026 we're going to see a sewer rate increase? Is that true? >> Yes. >> Yeah, we're we're going to continue. There was several years where we haven't received an increase. DOR is saying, well, you're you're having trouble matching your expenses to your revenues. Um, so they're saying that we need to increase our rates in order to meet that our revenue our expense expectations for the year. Um, so it they'll continue to go up. >> Do we have a um, percentage that we know yet of what the increase will be? >> Um, we can the sewer and water department can go up up to 10% without having to

052go to city council. Um, so it would be below that's 10%. >> Okay, so it's significant though. >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. So we have like 3.6 million in from revenue from sewer rates and then two what is the other revenue from? That's 200,000. >> Other revenue. That's what we're bringing in for like the septic ditch. >> Yeah, that's the septic fee. So what that is is when people, you know, your RV shows up and you pay a fee to get rid of your your waste. >> Septic tank. >> Yeah, septic tank pump outs, that type of stuff. >> No. No, no. >> What's happening? >> People can come in and dispose of it at the plant. They pay to get rid of that. >> I'm not sure. >> And we treat it and

053but it's mainly like >> us uh septic companies >> Yeah, pumping out >> tanks >> septic tanks and bring them into the plant for processing. >> Yeah, okay. And the dewatering goes there as well. >> Oh, yes. >> Okay. Okay, we have sewer administration and engineering and sewer service division. Any questions here? >> Great. This is all broken out so you can see what's paid what's paid for from the sewer fund. >> Mhm. >> And we're still This is sort of tangential but we're we didn't talk about this, I forgot, in the when we were talking about capital, we're still under the DP consent order for um I&I and so that's still Oops. Several years ahead, right? I mean, we still have a a long way to go to fix the wet storm water sewer

054system. >> Is there an estimated cost for that? >> In total? >> Yeah. Over the over the span of like 15 years. >> Uh millions, probably. I'm not sure the exact number. >> Okay. >> I do have it somewhere but I I know. It's too big. >> Yeah, probably. >> And, okay. Okay, any other questions for sewer enterprise? To water enterprise. Which is it? Is the 10% increase for sewer and water, or is it each? >> Each, 10 10 each. >> Is it um do we anticipate that we'll be on the higher end of those increases or the lower end of those increases? >> We want to keep it as low as possible in order Our our goal is to make the DOR happy. Um so, as little as we can do to make the

055DOR happy is what we're planning. >> You said this is the sewer, that's the 10% growth. >> Yes. >> Do you know off the top of your head like what is the percentage that our our expenses are growing compared to our revenue, like >> It's the just a ballpark guess right now, um and with this new contract, so we're probably looking at between 12 and 15% increases. Um so, you know, in order to cuz we have to come out with a rate then 6 months later that rate needs to be implemented. >> Yeah. >> So, we're usually lagging behind anyway. >> Okay. >> Um so, if we get away with um banking some money and then saying to the DOR well, if we can get away with with maybe a 5% rate on each, then

056that's what we'll do. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Yeah. That's a bigger increase than I thought you were going to say. Just the Well, just the 12 to 15 is a bigger increase than that than I thought you said. Okay, any other questions for water? And if I'm close to this, this is just briefing Sexton is just briefing out what fees are paid for by these enterprise accounts. Okay, anything about water we should under water enterprise that we should know? Just that we might see an increase. Okay. I'm curious under that interest water it it lists the loan and the year of the loan but I didn't see that under sewer debt. Oh, no, it is there. So, I see the year. The hard part with this is we never know it's hard to like

057how many millions are out there or when they might end. Uh I don't know if that is that been included when we talked about our general debt. Um we've talked about like there's just so much debt out there when we could possibly build something again or spend large capital projects or projects. >> When I first came here finding out the total debt picture was quite a challenge cuz it's never been in actual kind of one place where you can take a look at it. Uh we have it in one place now and yes, I I agree it probably should be included somewhere in the budget to to see the entire debt picture that the city is is looking at. >> Is that something you could post on the website? >> Yeah, yeah, I I can

058pull that out and post it or distribute it to everyone. Yes. >> Yeah, I think it would maybe be helpful. Right now as it is we have one meeting left where we don't have anything scheduled. Um so, as much as I was like, "We'll cancel it if we don't have anything to add to it." But, it might be helpful before we get to the full council vote. I like cuz to look at this and and like we're paying zero on a 2019 loan and zero on a 2009 loan, zero on a 204 like a 2009 loan, that's such old debt and we're paying nothing on it. Um so it would just be helpful if you want to do like you don't have to create anything crazy but if you want to give us like a

059quick and dirty debt overview of the city that would >> That would be a very good idea. >> Great. I can um I'll make sure we send you the date but it's it's it's far away it's not till June. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And thank you and the finance department because I know it's been difficult. Really difficult. saved the city quite a bit already and it and uh I mean I really appreciate the attention to detail that the department has has gone to. That's >> Okay, if there is no more questions for DPW, I believe that is their entire budget. And we will move to um public safety. >> Yes. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Oh yeah, no problem. >> So I'm good. >> Who do we have first? If

060um So fire starts We start from 105. We want to do Do you guys um I don't care who goes first. Do you guys want to decide who rock paper scissors for who goes first? Whoever has the pressing Okay. Great, fire it's you. >> Okay, Dreama. >> You don't need me. Sir? >> So, as Deputy McIver hands out some light reading for you all. >> Thank you. >> I'll introduce myself. My name is Bob Strand and I am the fire chief and emergency management director for the city of Greenville. Uh the gentleman who's handing out the literature is Deputy McIver and the gentleman to my right is Captain Campbell who this is the sworn administrative staff minus our fire prevention officer. Um Uh and so thank you for inviting us to talk about next year's

061budget. Welcome to the firehouse. We're happy to have you here. I'm happy that this room is getting used for the public meetings like this. Um and just want to do a little overview about the fire department. Uh this year's budget, we submitted the budget with our request and you'll see that in the spreadsheet that we gave you, the large piece of paper. With the requests, um uh compared to last year's fiscal year budget uh and then what was given to us from the city and was finally decided on and a basic overview of it is uh this is a very tough year. I know it's not just the fire department that's having a tough year with the budget, but it is a very difficult year, but we are going to do the best that we

062can um with the money that has been authorized or hopefully will be authorized for the department. The budget reflects a two and a half position reduction in the fire department. They the two positions, one position we put on an eighth firefighter on one of the shifts to overcome some of the um large amount of IOD claims IOD firefighters we had off. We anticipated that that probably wasn't going to get through the budget. So it's really one and a half positions that is a reduction. One position will be not filled through attrition. The other one is a part-time clerical person in our fire prevention bureau that was 20 hours a week that has been eliminated and that workload we will be shifting throughout the department to make up the 20 hours a week for that position.

063In our operating budget we'll go by line by line item, but a basic overview on that is a lot of stuff was moved around into either other accounts or other departments entirely. So we'll go over that, but you'll see that there's quite a bit of dramatic reduction in that as well. Um but we'll explain what that means and what that's going to have for an impact within the fire department. Let me give you a little idea of what we do at the firehouse. Today alone the fire department has responded on 13 calls. Starting off this morning with a full cardiac arrest where uh, efforts by the public safety from the dispatchers all the way down to the uh, ambulance, the police department, and the fire department were successfully um, resuscitated an individual in town uh,

064that was in a full cardiac arrest. That was followed by multiple other calls including a overdose where the person was not breathing. Emergency services responded to the scene. Police were the first on uh, on site and delivered Narcan followed closely by um, uh, AMR and our ambulance uh, and the outcome of that patient was that successfully uh, started that patient breathing again and transported to the hospital. Uh, so today was a very busy day but that is a typical day uh, for your public safety agencies within within Greenfield. We've had some notable events lately. Um, next week one of my shifts from a call a couple weeks ago is being honored by the hospital for the successful resuscitation of uh, uh, uh, person that was in full cardiac arrest uh, and is now home with

065his family um, because of successful uh, CPR and resuscitation efforts by the fire department and the police department and other agencies that were involved. Uh, a week ago we had a small child uh, that was in a full arrest. Crews arrived on scene to find the the child in in a very dire um, predicament. Crews again, police, fire, ambulance worked on the child um, very quickly and was able to resuscitate the child and transport it to the hospital. Um, there are countless amount of those uh, success stories. Um, that was not common when I was a firefighter. Um, and to hear it every day and the professionalism that you do have from your public safety agencies from police dispatch and your fire department and your ambulance um is a testament to the team that we

066have uh in public safety in in in Greenfield and I couldn't be prouder of what we are able to do for the citizens of this town. Uh uh about a month uh three weeks ago uh we had a very significant fire in town um that most people unless you were stuck in traffic don't know about. Uh it is my hopes that at the um at the city council meeting I can do a a quick uh update and briefing on on what that fire but basically we had a uh um a brush fire that was extended over a mile in the city limits in a very populated area. We had 13 acres of fire of uncontrolled fire. Um the on-duty staff happened to be full um uh fully staffed that that day. They immediately responded to

067the area of the Buckley Nursing Home where fire was starting to lick the back of the nursing home uh and was able to contain that part of the fire. Mutual Aid was called in. other fire trucks other fire assets responded to the city to assist us and we ended up having 14 acres. Four acres of that was on the highway where it reached the highway and actually crossed the highway and got into the medium and burned up a a section of the medium where 91 because of safety issues had to be shut down um in both directions. Uh um Fires like this we see in the north end of town at an acre or two. Uh this is a career fire for me to have a fire of that magnitude that threatened that many structures

068in a very populated neighborhood. Uh and if it wasn't for the staff that we had on duty as well as all the off-duty firefighters that came in and mutual aid companies that responded to our aid it could have been it could have been a very major event for the for the city of Greenfield. And again, everybody did a great job. We basically took that fire and divided into four different operational components. One of my captains ran the highway, one of my other captains ran the area by the nursing home, mutual aid company ran the area by the corporate center, and one of the Deerfield Chiefs coordinated efforts at the self storage area. So, it was a It was a little hectic and and all together the fire was out in less than 2 hours. So,

069pretty proud of the effort of the fire departments that that did that, but I wanted just highlight a little bit about what we do on a daily basis at the fire fire department. We're going to get into the budget, but there's some questions that come up every year that I'm going to answer right off the get-go. So, one of them being is mutual aid. We respond out of town a lot on mutual aid. We respond out of town, we respond one piece of equipment at a time. We gave 39 mutual aid assistance last year, which sounds like a a very large number. Taking the brush fire aside, outside of that last year, we received 51 companies into the city of Greenfield to assist us when we have a fire. So, we and I say this

070every year, but I think it's important to to reiterate it. We receive a lot more mutual aid than we give out. As a matter of fact, I told you today was a busy day. At one time during a very busy stretch, we had three mutual aid ambulances assisting the ambulances from AMR and Greenfield Fire. We simply just can't keep up on the call volume. So, just want to jump in. 51 requests for mutual aid came into the city, and when we request mutual aid, a fair amount of the time, that's a minimum of six other departments responding from out of town agencies. So, it's 51 * 6 at that minimum. Uh that we're actually getting back in. So, it's kind of six-fold if you look at those numbers in comparison. >> So, I want to

071highlight one other thing that we talked about every year at Ways and Means, and that is is the response model that we have within the city of Greenfield. The higher acuity of the call changes the level of response that you get to a call. So, if a call comes in as as somebody not breathing or an overdose, that is everybody goes. Right? And it seems like a lot of resources when you look at it. But if if they get there and somebody is in full cardiac arrest, I want you to think about TV shows like ER, and when they say in the in the ER code blue, and you have a respiratory therapist, and you have a cardiologist, and you have multiple nurses, and multiple doctors, and and they fill up this little room with

072people to save a life, we do the same thing out in the field, but we do it in a bathroom, in a living room, in a in a bedroom, and it's all hands. So, you could see a fire truck, two ambulances, uh three, four police officers. Everybody has a part within the chain of survival for the patient that we're going to. 911 receives a call, they dispatch the appropriate resources. Usually, it's a police officer that shows up first. They start the cardiac arrest efforts. They have defibs. They can start defib on on a patient. Our fire department responds with an engine company for manpower and the ambulance for advanced care items that we carry, and then the paramedic will show up with drugs and and and other things to revive the patient. It is a

073choreo choreo choreographed effort and it's amazing to see your responders when when something like this happens. And and it's not uncommon for you to see 10 responders working on one patient, but everybody has a job to do. And and and like high quality CPR, uh when you're doing chest compressions, 2 minutes and you're done, right? Could you keep going doing CPR at that point? Yeah, you could, but high quality CPR they have proven that for you to maintain the pace and the depth of compressions, it's it's a workout. And so, when somebody's running the show and swapping out the people to make sure that nobody's doing it more than 2 minutes and the drugs are being administered and the oxygen is being taken care of and airway's put in and the furniture's being moved and

074the backboard's being brought in. All this stuff is happening while this call is going on and it takes a lot of people to do it. I just talked about the two calls today that are a prime example why that successful just today. So, it's important that people understand that, you know, when you see a bunch of responders and it looks like that it's a waste of resources, everybody has a job to do. And sometimes it looks like they're standing around, and they may be because they may have swapped out or but everybody has a job to do and everybody comes to the table to get it done and and we've been successful uh and there are people alive today because of the efforts of your public safety. So, I just wanted to I just wanted

075to highlight that a little bit before we get into our our budget. >> Thank you. >> So, uh salaries are are self-explanatory. Again, we we have uh we are losing a firefighter through attrition. It's our hopes that that will be gained back. Another firefighter is also being removed from the payroll and put onto the ambulance revenue account. The ambulance revenue account we'll talk about in a little bit, but that ambulance when we transport a patient, we bill for that patient, it goes into the ambulance revenue account. That ambulance revenue account is now paying for three firefighters. Yes. >> Um I think there might be a mistake on your salaries. >> Mhm. >> So lieutenant EMT the last one before regular firefighter >> Yep. >> I think is at a wrong pay grade or it should

076be switched with the firefighter EMT at 85,000. >> Yeah. >> That That 85,000 number is what belongs in that. >> Yeah, so those should just be switched. >> Yes. Okay. >> Yep. >> And then the regular firefighter, I couldn't figure out what step that person was on. >> Uh that I believe is actually that 74074 number. >> Okay, cool. >> Uh they are not an EMT, so you'll notice the the next highest EMT that's sort of the pay difference. >> So the last EMT lieutenant EMT should be at 85 and then the firefighter should be at 74. >> If you look at the sheet >> It's okay. >> It's I flip-flopped them. >> I got you. Okay, cool. >> Just making sure. >> Okay. >> And so for the 2.5 positions, it's one person lose

077lost through attrition, one person is just it's moving to the revenue account. >> No. In addition to the firefighter being removed from from department and put into the revenue account. We are losing one firefighter through attrition and a part-time clerical person. >> It's the fire prevention side. >> Fire prevention. >> So, overall you're losing 1.5 positions. >> Yes, out of current staff. >> Can you I this may be in your presentation, so I'm sorry if I'm jumping forward, but um in the past I can't remember how many years ago it was, but you talked to us a little bit about a study that was done an audit that was done of the fire department like maybe 20 years ago in staffing. Do you have any of those details off the top of your head in

078terms of like how our staffing compares to what we should be? >> I do and it's in your budget overview. >> Take it up take it away. >> So, your budget overview if you flip through it um the the the first page I want you to go to is page four and that's basically our organizational structure which shows how the chain of uh command is within the department and what we what ideally uh we have strived to get to uh which includes uh our day staff um uh and I can go over the roles and responsibilities if you need me to uh and then it goes down to the four shifts uh each shift has a captain that runs the shift and a lieutenant that um is the second in charge. He's in charge when

079the captain is not working which is a cost-saving measure cuz if it wasn't for the lieutenant, we would have to fill with a captain and then the the firefighters the five firefighters. So, next year's uh department overview is basically going to be the same with the exception of one of the groups instead of five firefighters, there'll be four fire firefighters. Okay. Any questions about that? The next one is our cost to >> Sorry, I did have a question about that. So, for one shift in a 24-hour period, there would be four firefighters on. And then unless you need then like do you have a backup staff that you call in if >> We do. >> Yeah, great question. And I and I appreciate that. So, out of the shifts that we have, we have vacation,

080we have sick leave, we have IOD, we have other leaves. So, it's on on paper we have seven firefighters on a shift and and every once in a while we get lucky and have those seven firefighters on a shift. What we do do is work to a minimum of five on a shift, which gets a three on the first two engine and two on the second piece, the second piece being an ambulance. The ladder truck, the the the engine comp another engine company, the brush company, what what whatever we need that those two firefighters do that. Obviously, when we have seven, then we can staff more. We can staff a second ambulance. We can, you know, it it gives us more flexibility. But really, especially IOD has been very detrimental to us maintaining that seven

081number. So, it doesn't happen a lot. Now, the city through the mayor and through the finance have made a huge change that's going to impact police and fire and that is changing the coverage for our IOD insurance, which actually covers firefighters or police officers if they get injured on the duty, that there's money brought back into the department to offset the cost of the overtime to replace that. That is huge. I can't understate that enough. It was removed probably 15 years ago. And it was put back in. It makes financial sense. It saves considerable amount of money and I applaud >> This is what we heard about last We talked about this in our last meeting. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so does that mean that you will no longer have to like pay out

082a salary every time you have someone IOD and then >> No, what it does is when we lose somebody in IOD and they're out, the city pays for that salary and has to maintain that salary. What doesn't happen is that that body, that position on the floor, doesn't get filled or if we drop below our minimum, the position's filled with overtime. This will help offset that a little. >> Okay. >> Um it it it's going to have a huge impact um on our overall operating budget and and I can't thank the mayor and the finance director enough for for really being aggressive and and and getting that back for police and fire. Call statistics, um I always like talking about this. I'm the old guy in the department. When I first fire started on the

083fire department and I was a young firefighter, we're doing 800 calls with the same staff that we have now. We are going to be just shy of 3,400 calls of service. Um a typical call for us for service runs between a half hour to any anywhere between a half hour and and an hour and a half is a typical call. Just to give you an idea. 1,769 of those calls are overlapping, which means that if we're on a one call, means another call came in and we have to handle, you know, multiple calls at a time. Times like today where we have three mutual aid companies coming in to assist us for the ambulance, we just can't keep up. There's just not enough resources. We augment that by calling firefighters back in on heavy use

084time or if they're going to be tied in tied up, but a lot of times it's it's relying on our mutual aid partners. >> What is like the best practice number of people for your department? >> That is a >> If you had all the money in the world, what would >> That is a great question and I and and and and it's it's a great question because I can tell you what it is, but I can also tell you that the city of Greenfield being the financial situation that it is, even if it had a major influx of money, will probably never get to that point. But, ideally, there are standards that we follow. A typical single story ranch building for a reported building fire is 11 firefighters. Finding within 4 minutes. Um we

085augment that by having our neighbors and Turner start automatically with us, plus we do recall that starts firefighters right away, so we try to meet that standard the best we can through the means that we have. For a cardiac arrest from just the fire side, it's a minimum of six people. Um so, ideally, um Well, let me let me go to what the study said, right? Cuz we we paid a lot of money back in 2006 for this study and we were doing 1,000 calls at that time. The study said we should have a minimum of eight firefighters on duty. On duty. Not not No, we have five. >> Yeah. >> Um so, um that's what it said. I am a realist and and know that the chances of us doing that are are slim.

086Now, there are avenues where we can increase our staffing down the road if we were to get more involved with the ALS advanced life support for the city and and and expanded our ambulance program, we'd obviously have to have add paramedics to the number, but but right now, you know, our our goal has been for the last decade is to get us back to seven on a shift. Our goal right now is to maintain that. Right? And that's the You get everybody, the mayor and you, you all have hard choices that you have to make, right? And and unfortunately, like this year is one of the years that we're not laying a firefighter off. We're just not being able to fill it. Um Um it's painful. But we'll get through it and we'll figure out

087a way to manage it and and we will work closely to try to restore that position before we even talk about you know, what the future's going to look like. >> So that's the answer. >> So, wages and overtime are described there. You can see one of the things workload has increased. Here's where that staffing recommendation is. Eight uh minimum of eight working were made about 1,600 calls. The department now handles 3,500 calls. Uh and there has been not a a significant increase in um staffing. Um again, like I need to be clear that the city is working very closely to try to um address areas that that uh that have an impact on the overall staffing. One of them being is the IOD insurance. Like I keep saying that. When I say it's a

088big deal, it's a big deal. So So there's there's that information um >> Sorry, can I ask one question? How long has the position that's um been that's unfilled right now that's being eliminated been unfilled? >> So it has been filled, but it was filled with a long-term two There's two members that were long-term IOD that have been retired within the year. So we're actually down the two positions now. So it's been a while. >> So um like the 2020 six budget actuals would reflect like that position was technically filled but >> paid for you. >> It was paid for it. Okay. >> Yeah, and they were on the book. It's just, you know, unfortunately, there's aspects of this job that that are very, you know, are are dangerous. >> So we're not like what

089I'm worried about and I've been watching a little bit the um Amherst Fire Department City Council um conversations around this because of the big fire that happened there. Um Like I'm worried about when we start to tip the scale of having reduced staffing increases the overtime more than it would cause more than it would cost to staff a role. But because we have the these two that were that were that are now being retired, like that shouldn't happen for this year. >> So But we consistently the last four years we've used about the same amount of overtime. But I left it at 220,000. >> Okay. >> Um because it has been right around 220,000 the last four years. >> Okay. >> Which is a a lot less than a lot of our counterparts. >> Yeah.

090>> Uh around half of our overtime. We are very We are careful the way that we spend our overtime. But the the end of the day we are very manpower driven department. And so we augment um staff that we have when we have a larger event. Um it is our goal to always have an engine company available. Um that is not always a realistic um but at least something available within a 10 or 15 minutes. >> And this doesn't include this number does not include like basically 30,000 with the benefits package or you know, so we're looking at you to really only look at if you cut um overtime down it's like really shut up. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. >> So, processing all that. >> So, overtime for us equates to staffing. >>

091Yeah. >> Okay? It's about what the city wants for available resources to respond on calls. And often time that is through overtime. Okay? Now, we hopefully we, you know, with the changes in the IOD insurance, we should be able to maintain the overtime budget that we have, but even with the $220,000 we've had we've got over every year. I mean So. >> Okay. Do you anticipate more than what you've been dealing with like brush >> fires in the future? Great question. So, I think the volume that we're seeing um and the rapid spread of fires in the wildland um is a real is definitely changed. Do I anticipate an increase in it? I think we average the same amount every year. This particular fire that I talked about was like the temperature was the right

092temperature, the humidity was the right >> storage >> right the the the vegetation was at that stage where it's drying up, but it's not green and it's just like a little window there uh during our brush season during the spring and it just happened to be a windy day, low humidity high temperatures, a lot of fuel, a lot of fuel. What I mean by fuel is all the ground clutter from from many storms where the trees have fallen down over the years and they rot out and that provides fuel for a fire like that. And it just it it was amazing to see the fire growth that day. >> Mhm. Um I guess I have a question for Sorry, do you want to keep going? I guess this question is for the mayor is um

093Is there areas in public safety um specifically where if the um unrestricted general government aid comes through you would prioritize funding first? >> In the whole budget? >> Or just for public safety? >> Yes. I would I would definitely prioritize uh a firefighter in South Windsor. I would put them both back on. They would be the first two positions that I would fill. >> You know, staffing and and having the the firefighters whether there's studies or not like the reality is is that the pie is so big right for the city. Uh and I know that the mayor and I had many um agonizing conversations like uh um having to reduce this position was not easy. It was not easy for me and was not especially not easy for the mayor. But we didn't lay

094off a position. >> Right. >> We will work closely and diligently to try to get that position back. Um when I was preparing this budget um I was actually um anticipating we were going to lay off more people. Um and we didn't come to that and that is the from the hard work of our our finance director and the mayor working collaboratively with us. Am I happy with some of the cuts that have happened? Nobody's happy. But I've been doing this a long time and understand we're all we're all in this, right? We're all in this and and and and there's some stuff that we have to do. The the mayor's office, the city has always has been very good to the fire department. And so when I talk about and advocate for my department,

095I don't want to be misconstrued in anything else other than that. Is to advocate for the department. But I'm also a realist and under and understand exactly where the city is financially. I've been doing this a long time. I've been with the department a long time. And I've seen this multiple times. So, yes, going down a firefighter is is it's going to hurt. But we're going to get through it. >> Are there grant funding opportunities? >> Great question. I love the questions. The answer is yes. And we've been successful on that the grants. The problem with the grants is that you apply for the grants and they cover the firefighter salary for the first year. And the next year they cover 75% and the next year they cover 50 50. Yeah. I'm just throwing out

096numbers. But by the end of the grant, you now are responsible for all those firefighters. Um that's good and if the times improve, not so good if the times don't improve. >> It's something to say, man. >> And we found we actually found that that was going to be cost prohibitive to actually go that route. >> And who would write these grants? Like if you're if you don't have an admin assistant anymore, >> We have an admin assistant for the fire department. We don't have one for the fire prevention bureau. The grants are written in cooperation with economic development. We have a grant writer, um, and uh, usually the two gentlemen working closely together would be the ones that would apply for grants. >> Okay. >> Uh, SAFER grant is the grant program specifically that

097covers staffing. Uh, it's administered through Homeland Security under FEMA. And, um, the last time we evaluated that grant in order to be more competitive with it, we would have to be closer to certain staffing benchmarks, which ideally we would want to be at, but in order to get to that number, we would have to hire way more staff than the city could afford to fund at the end of the grant. So, that's we we've applied for for less and said that we'll get close to that that number that they're looking for, um, but that sets us back in the level of competitiveness against other communities that are ultimately successful. >> Like the chief was talking about earlier, they want us to have 12 within the first, uh, 10 minutes of personnel showing up to a

098a structure fire. Um, and that's essentially that's essentially more than doubling our current staffing. >> Now, we can make some of that up with some of the staff that are right here that work during the day, um, and we can augment some of those numbers to to get us closer, but in order to be very it's a super competitive grant. Um, so in order to be successful in that grant program, we we can try, but it is very hard to >> Thank you for explaining that. >> So, the next item we'll talk a little bit about, uh, is overtime. It's always a difficult item to talk about, uh, because it's so fluid. Uh, we make adjustments all the time to the way that we operate. We try to see, you know, maybe there's a different

099strategy to it that could reduce the overtime. The mayor and I have had multiple conversations about that and we have looked at that and really have determined that we are where we you know where where we should be with the overtime and I and I I'm appreciative of you know maintaining that because at the end of the day that's how we staff our trucks. So um Is there any other items under uh the wages and section of the budget? Happy to address it. If not, we'll move on to the operating side. >> Well, I said way way because way back when the idea was that if we hired the extra position that that would cut back on overtime and it didn't end up working that way. So I mean I just have concerns about that.

100>> And I'll tell you why it didn't work that way. The two firefighters have been out for over a year long-term injury. I have a third one that's out on long-term um he's on a long-term injury leave. Um and you know it for whatever reason we had this we've had these problems with with you know these catastrophic medical diagnosis and it just happened that if that was all whole and those injuries weren't there, I think we would have done that. But there's no way to predict that. And so like overtime is kind of almost like an I don't want to call it an insurance, but it's one of those items that you know if it's not there, it's not funded and I have an injury. You know, I'll go back to the fire we had

101in the wintertime at School Street. You know, we almost lost a whole group of firefighters for injuries on that. Now, thank God we still had a pretty significant injury that was out for a couple months. That's what the overtime helps us make sure that we're filling our shifts appropriately. So, it's it's it's hard and it's you know, we we go out of town where we're calling firefighters to to staff the firehouse. Um we go on on on calls that are going to tie us up for a long period of time, we call firefighters back to the staff staff the firehouse. We tweak with that number all the time because we have what's appropriate and then what we can afford. And balancing that is is is you know, it's a constant moving target. >> I do

102wonder if there is uh especially in budget years like this where we are so tight, if it makes sense for like the way that the state is doing it right now where they're doing like a preemptive budget and then halfway through she'll release another like if you have a catastrophic year like this where you have three people out on injury, is it more prudent for us halfway through the year to fund a position than it is to keep running on overtime? >> So, so with the guidance of the mayor we did that and that was that eight position that I talked about which we didn't have budget, but it offset >> the overtime >> most of the overtime that could have occurred on top of what we already had. >> Yeah. >> Um yeah, it's

103it's like I said, it's a constant moving target and it is it is so challenging to predict. Uh and when you think you have it down, a variable gets thrown at you that you just didn't see coming. >> Yeah, I think it might be useful for us as we as a means for this year to do like a a review. Like in the second quarter. You like you know, like have department heads come and >> Like where are we at? >> How are we doing? Yeah. >> Yes. So So overtime is a challenge for us. In your packet is an overtime report. It spells out every dime that we spend in overtime and how we spend it and where it's gone through in the last year and it's it's a real goods uh resource to

104look at what the taxpayers' money is being used for overtime. >> Thank you. That's very helpful. >> So big changes with the with uh um the operating budget, we as a department eliminated and combined some line items. I'm sorry. >> Um can you just talk a little bit about the job description of the clerical position that was cut? >> So uh the clerical position that was cut was a new position that was added a couple years ago. Um our fire prevention bureau has one um captain uh that runs it. Uh and he is responsible for all the code enforcement, plan reviews, um everything else that um that is required for the fire prevention bureau. It is a daunting job. It is very hard job. And the fire the people that served within those jobs um

105quite frankly don't like being in the job because of the volume of work. They're never catching up. They're always behind and it's very overwhelming. Part of that job is to make phone calls and to send out letters and stuff like this. That clerical job offset that amount of work so the inspector can could focus on inspections. Um that position was like I said it was new. It was it was was a godsend for us. Um but with the staff that I have in front of you, with a clerical help that I have, with some small changes that we're going to make, we are going to we are going to adjust uh and get the job done. >> It's really going to affect like building a new building and >> So if you look up on

106the screen behind you or in the packet on this or the page after the call statistics, we did 741 inspections in 2025. Uh that was with one inspector. Uh so you're looking at a minimum of two inspections a day. Some of those are like you just said new construction that require Uh these are just the the system inspections where that may require an inspection but now multiple follow-ups like the projects that require ongoing uh progress inspections uh may still be flagged under one inspection. Uh a lot of what that is is anytime food vendors come in, food trucks, those all have to be inspected each time they're set up. You have you have plans review. That's not even included in this this screen where before you even do the inspection, we have to ensure that

107code is enforced. So everything's laid out on the blueprints the proper way meeting the fire code. We work hand in hand with the building department, constantly in touch with them uh comparing things back and forth. So there's hours and hours and hours that aren't even included with just leading up to these inspections, scheduling, invoicing, uh the permits that come after the inspection, mailing those out. Any of the the constant emails, the public records requests for any of tank removals, things that have required previous uh um permits or inspections that now they want to close out their permit. Now it needs a follow-up document submitted. So there's there's countless things that that are are done in the fire prevention uh bureau and having that assistance. She took a lot of that weight off of off of

108that captain. So with that said, we're shifting things around like the fire prevention officer is going to have office hours that he didn't have before, which means that he won't be out in the field doing inspections. Captain Kimball is is a um certified inspector as well. He's going to be taking up some of the inspection load on that um um some of the paperwork will be handled >> But so hold on, I have a question about that. So like that means if you're one of the five on duty, >> It is not. Our day staff is still coming >> You're not. Okay, that's separate. >> With that said, the caveat to that is Captain Kimball is also available to cover shifts if the shift is short. So yes, he could be on shift. >> Okay.

109>> And to do supplement the crew for larger like we had a couple overdoses today and I still went on those with the assistant with the like the chief was explaining on the manpower needed or that sorry, the personnel needed for those calls. Um so I still supplement all incidents. When the mutual aid ambulances were coming in, if Northfield came in for one of those, the 15-minute ambulance response, I went and filled the ambulance was able to come and drove provided that first response until the ambulance could get there. So I do supplement the shift with their strength. >> So so I mean it's not uncommon that you know, Captain Kimball commands one of the fire engines or the second ambulance. And so it's we do what we have to do. >> Yeah. I have

110a question for you, Mayor. How did you decide to cut the clerical position? It it like she was really doing some heavy lifting. >> And there was not one decision that I made that was easy. And there was not enough money to go around. Um I did some, you know, all of the comparisons of other budgets. Um and I know that they that is every position was needed. We need I I put the seventh person on a shift. I would like to have that like yesterday. Um but when you're like a million dollars short, you can't make that up in toner. And so, um you as we're going along, they they cut to the senior center was we are way underfunded on seniors compared to other municipalities our size. And um we we could use

111that position. I'm hoping maybe there's some money in the fire prevention evolving for a few hours. Somebody could fill in. Um that was something I've asked if anybody had evolvings that we were using. >> And I think, you know, that you know, difficult decisions had to be made um and you know, the priority was made to make sure that we have firefighters that are able to respond. Um I don't envy um the mayor's position. Um uh we you know, we try to work very closely on on the reductions that needed to happen. Um but at the end of the day, there's only so much money to go around and uh you know, you will have to adjust and you know, and I certainly don't have harbor any ill feelings because of it. Um it's just

112unfortunately, it's where And in the same boat. >> So, ordinary, like I was saying, we moved some stuff around. We combined a couple accounts like office supplies and office equipment we put into one account, so it may look like some of it's zeroed out, but just pay attention to our spreadsheet where where it says it was removed, it was removed at the request of the fire department. >> Okay? Really important to to say that. Areas that have seen big reductions is building grounds and maintenance. Um The reason for that is a lot of that has been shifted to central maintenance. Um It does mean that there are some shortcomings that are going to be with that. We have a piece of equipment here that will not have the annual service for it. Um It's a

113choice that we have to make, but um Um It's new to the firehouse, so we shouldn't have an issue. So. >> What is it? >> That's the station alert system. The automated voice that you hear while you're having a meeting when the bell goes out and it turns all the lights on. There's a There's a system that drives that. There's an annual fee for that. Where I'm going to go. We're not paying it this year with the idea that it's brand new. And probably doesn't need to have the the the So. So, that's been eliminated. Our repair of vehicles hasn't been changed. The annual testing hasn't been changed. The cost of that has gone up. Software maintenance, that is a 30-something thousand dollar line item that was removed last year. It is now in the

114ambulance revenue account and that is all the computer program it's a basically one big computer program that runs everything for the fire department. So it is listed as being cut. However, it has been moved. There are a couple programs that we are eliminating to save money. One of them being is our policy manual. Um we pay a subscriber for that. We will now be eliminating that program and we will be going back to try to manage it in house. There were some advantages to it, but it's an expense that we we can't we can't have right now. Um schooling um >> and training >> Question yep on this page first about I saw your health and wellness budget was reduced and I was looking on the open finance and it seems like you'll use it

115a lot. Could you say more about what you're using it for and >> Yeah. >> what's being cut this year? >> Yeah. So um we had to we when we do promotions we hire a third party promotion company to come in to do the the bulk lion's share of the testing and the assessment center. That per exam is about ten thousand dollars an exam. I don't have any place in the last few years to put that in my budget so it fell under that category today. We are working closely with the union to come up with alternatives than hiring a third party vendor. That that does that. So the majority of that is the reduction of that ten thousand dollars. The rest of the the health and wellness part of the program we purchase drinking

116water with that and there's some other purchases that we we we get out of that as well. Um detergent for the for the laundry room um comes out of that, so. >> That's a Uh a Peloton somewhere? >> Yep. >> You're You're getting that this year? You have that in your paying subscription? >> I'll have to double-check, but I believe we cut that. Yeah, we cut that We cut that subscription. >> So, what that >> That was part of uh what they were outfitting the fitness center. So, this is our first station that we've ever had a designated fitness center to keep the health and wellness of the firefighters. Uh with that, one of the the things uh that's most utilized in that room was a Peloton, and uh at the time the department had

117paid the $46 monthly fee to keep that operational. Um that was one of the items that will be cut. So, >> It was one of the It It helped out, you know, we we encourage our firefighters to stay physically fit. And that was just a program to help them with that, but obviously we looked really hard at every dime, and where we had to make reductions, we made reductions. >> I have one more question on this page. Sorry. The dues and membership for the deputy chief, um what are those two, and how do they help, and what are they for? >> Uh so, dues and membership falls under one category. We did highlight that there was an addition. Um there's a chief couple chiefs organization that we pay the dues for the deputy. The dues

118have always been there. Uh the professional organizations um there's fire chiefs organizations that I belong to that are invaluable. Uh we get a lot of information, and we share a lot of information with fellow fire chiefs. So, that's where the dues and memberships come from. >> Specifically, the International Association of Fire Chiefs and the Fire Chiefs Association of Massachusetts. Those are the two that I'm eligible to join. The other ones uh remain unchanged. >> Uh could you give some more concrete examples of how they're invaluable and helpful, I guess, to you guys? >> Yeah. Yeah, so the the Chiefs is specifically the the ones that I belong to, the Chiefs of organization multiple levels keeps you updated on on changing laws, advocating for changing laws, um networking with the with the fire chiefs, uh anything

119that may affect us as a region is dealt with regionally. Uh, it's really invaluable to be a part of it. Um, one of them's the Franklin County Fire Chiefs. We work so closely in Franklin County that that the Chiefs meetings that's where all the big decisions are made globally for the county. Um, and it just it wouldn't happen without these organizations, so. >> What are the dues covering? Like, why couldn't the fire chiefs just meet without a membership? >> The dues cover uh the organization costs to run the organization. Uh, and a lot of times um the dues are augmented for special trainings. Um, comes out of dues, some specialized equipment that one department wouldn't buy, but we would buy as a >> all together. >> Right. So, and we're not talking big money from

120our organization. You're talking like a host tester, that's like $3,000. You know, fit tester that the fire chiefs organization just Fit tester is a way we check our masks. Um, you have to be by OSHA you have to have a certification that you've been fit tested. One department burden to have that is is challenging. Fire organization, you know, is able to buy that for the whole county. >> Are there any of these memberships required for you to be a part of? >> No. They're I will tell you they are invaluable to be >> Totally. >> Yeah. For for the city, it's not specifically the fire chief. I'm the representative for the city of Greenfield. It's important for the city to have that ability to have that no no different than than any other, you know,

121I know the the the town council has the ability to go to conferences and and talk with other town councilors. Like that interaction is important. >> The International Association of Fire Chiefs has regional divisions and the New England division of the International Fire Chiefs actually used a portion of their funds that are gathered by membership dues to hire a grant writer and that organization was successful at uh not the safer grant, but it was a Actually, I think it fell under safer. For new hires, a retention program, recruitment and a portion of new firefighter gear costs and membership communities are eligible to apply for part of that funding. So, it's still competitive for us to apply for those funds. Um but because of their basically their buying power, they were able to be successful I

122think the grant total was somewhere around $5 million. So, we are able to leverage that membership to be eligible to try to get a part of that. So, there is some give and take. >> The fire chief's organization have a collective purchasing program that can save money on purchasing through through a basically a group program to do and it all has administrative fees that go along with that and that's what the dues will for. It does not pay for any specific increase in anybody's salary or anything of that nature. >> Can I take it the meetings are local and not in Las Vegas? >> They are local. So, Western Mass votes around all of Western Mass once a month. Franklin County Chiefs go all around Franklin County. Um, yeah, they're local. Yeah. >> Thank you.

123>> There's um there's several that are done online. >> International mostly meet. >> Something. >> They have legislative branches, too. So, when uh you have large pushes from uh large money sources trying to reduce restrictions in building code or fire code, that could potentially have public health risks. A lot of these associations are where the legislators can go and and speak towards the safety of the community, too. All right. >> Very important. Mhm. >> Um computer equipment you'll see that that got that was zeroed out. Um Fernando and his department has has assumed the responsibility for that. Uh training in fire academy was zeroed out. Um Uh when we have a new recruit, there was a stipend that that the recruit got for an inconvenience fee uh to go to the academy because it it

124adds so much more time to their uh day. That was put in when the fire academy was installed. Fire academy is now in Springfield, so that was eliminated. Um The other part of that was we hire uh outside um groups to come in and do training here, or we'll occasionally send uh a firefighter to a high-end training that they wouldn't be able to get. Um one of them being last year, we sent two firefighters to a cutting class, which was cutting um cutting and welding um for like metal and somebody's entrapped in metal and stuff like that. >> Structural collapse where we can't give that indication, but we could send a firefighter to to do that. >> Fortunately, he's budgeted. >> We're not going to be able to do that. So >> to do any

125continuing education each year? >> We are for So there's two two levels. To maintain our certification for our EMT, there's all kinds of training that you have to do to impact the ISO rating, which is your insurance rating for every house, every business in town. There's a matrix that they use. Part of that matrix is our training, what we do in-house, what we do outside, and it's all calculated into the overall ISO rating for the city. It has been a category that that has needed improvement over the years. >> Is there more funding to do that or >> Everything needs more funding to do that. >> Is there another thing that would need improvement besides that or whatever? >> No, we work on it closely. So we just have to adjust and we'll have to

126be creative and and figure out different ways. Um >> So meaning is a very very important part of this department? >> And providing the opportunity for training. Now I will say a lot of the classes, the basic like fire investigation and and Um inspector and other classes are usually free from the fire cap. >> Does it still cost us to send the firefighters? >> That's why we have a training overtime budget, but most of that is is free. So saying that, you know, I don't want people to think that we're not going to be able to send our firefighters to training. We'll send them to Mass Massachusetts Firefighting Academy training if we can get them in there. There are some higher level more in you know, high end classes that we're just going to take

127a break on. >> Okay, I'm going to move us to ambulance revenue just um I was trying to keep the meeting in 3 hours and we still have another thing. No, no, it's not not your your fault. You're actually right on time. It's his fault, so blame him. >> Before we go on to that, I do have this one other document. It's just a fun fun little read. You have it. We did this for the community uh academy. >> Oh, thank you. >> And then basically tells you all the responsibilities that your fire department has and what they do. >> But you um email all of this to the council email just so we can make sure that it gets online. Yeah. >> So, amazing. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you so much.

128>> Like I said, we we had done that for the citizen academy, so >> No, I need to see this one. >> Oh, yeah. Thank you. >> We have to present the budget three different times, so having a document is helpful when we do. You're the you know, we have to go through public safety, makes a recommendation, goes to the mayor, presentation to the mayor. Then it goes to you folks. Yeah, so >> And a number of times since I've been on council you all have had had to do this like overtime explanation account. >> Yeah, and we appreciate it. >> It's always a category that needs explanation. >> Yeah. Which I just think it is very helpful to have a narrative alongside of a budget. >> Totally. >> Yeah. So, the ambulance revenue account

129uh currently there's the last time I checked was about $660,000 in the ambulance revenue account. Next year's budget, we are taking um >> 562920 >> 562 928 out of that budget. Um I say this with a warning. Um and that is, you know, we obviously the city every department's got to do what it's got to do to get through these hard times. This is not sustainable um for future years coming out of this revenue account. So, um the amount that we're tapping in this revenue account maybe this fiscal year coming up, but future fiscal years I think it's going to be challenging to me. >> There's uh three pages on the back side of your budget that will go over the negative that talk about the annual revenue account and why. >> And there's still

130money going that's being taken out. >> So, the the ambulance revenue account, the majority of the money is being spent on the salaries for three firefighters because it's a revolving account. We not only have to assume the responsibilities of the salary of the firefighters, we also have to assume these fringe benefits and everything else that goes along with that position. So, everything that you would everything that you would see in our operating plus things that you don't see like fringe benefits is all coming out of the ambulance account. Anything that's associated with the ambulance, we try to take out of the ambulance account. >> So, are you spending it all on the down? >> Yeah. >> Are we >> Well, wait a minute. Wait. Wait. Wait. >> That's I'm not sure about that statement cuz

131I'm also not sure about that this the statement that says will require shifting staffing back. Because I would like to know what the balance of that is at the end of the year. It doesn't close to the general fund. So, any unspent money will stay in that fund, correct? >> There's 600 and 67,000 that's in there for the last decade of revenue receipts. Now, we've taken a lot of money out of that account. But, we bring in less than 400,000 a year into that account. We're spending 619,000 out of that account. I mean, I'm sorry. >> I I see too. >> I looked at the wrong line. We're spending 500,000 out of that account. >> So, for this coming fiscal year, we will overspend what we'll take in for receipts, which will be the first

132time since this account has been created. >> Yeah, does the do the does the revenue increase each year that you bring in? >> Yes. As we do more The main source of revenue for the ambulance revenue account is ambulance transport. So, we bill every time that an ambulance transports patient. The more transports we do, the more revenue, theoretically. >> With our call as our call volume increases, there's the potential for that. >> There is the potential for me sitting here next year and saying that it's not going to cover the three positions. It might. Right? It might. But, the projections that we have don't say that. But, understand we have to get through these budget times, these difficult budget times. It's very hard. >> No, it's hard. And I do I feel like I have

133to say it because I've been through these enough times now that it makes us all feel horrible. We hear what you need, how awful it is because you your department does a fantastic job. I mean, I voted for every single fire appropriation in 7 years. But, I still I just have to point out that the firefighters that we have here are paid very well. And we are in a brand new building. This community has dug pretty deep to pay for. And we've also tried to keep the equipment up. So, I just want to make sure for the public that's out there that's listening, it's not all doom and gloom. We have a lot of firefighters, they're paid well so we can attract people to our department. Uh and it's not perfect. And and it actually

134sucks that that we're losing one because I've heard you for years advocate getting another position, which we find today. Uh but it's just it's so difficult in the there's some departments that don't have that benefit. Their their positions aren't paid in a competitive way that they can get people. So, I just want to make sure that it's out there and I I I hope you feel that the city and the city council are supporting the fire department in general. >> Councilor, if I've given any indication to the contrary to that, I apologize. I think I've been pretty clear about saying that, you know, um we will do whatever we can working closely with the mayor's office, with city council. And I I I don't think I've mentioned or I've tried not to portray doom and

135gloom. My job as the fire chief is to present you with what I see for an anticipation for the needs of the fire department and the future ramifications of budget decisions. I'm not saying I'm against it. I'm not saying that it's wrong. I'm trying to say that my analysis as the fire chief, there are concerns going forward. I'm not trying to paint doom and gloom. I'm just trying to say that, you know, there could be some challenges that we need to be aware of going into next year. That's all. >> I do >> If I if I have given that impression, I apologize. >> I do think that there's um there's a concern when we're overspending expenses are are greater than our revenue. That is like budgeting 101. Um I also do just want to

136say that I think that although like our retention seems okay in Greenfield, when we did do an analysis, maybe it was 2 years ago now, our salaries are lower than other places. And so while we don't have we don't seem to have a retention problem here though. Like it seems like uh we hire people and they stay. >> We've lost We've lost firefighters to other departments. >> Uh-huh. >> But yes, and and you have to understand it's not just salary that keeps firefighters. >> Mhm. >> Okay? Um we as a department are very grateful for the city um investment into into the department. But we also have worked very closely to make sure that when we're asking for things like a new ladder truck, we're trying to save as much money as we can. And

137the ladder truck's a prime example of that. The ladder we replaced was another $400,000 more than the ladder that we have. And we had to make some hard choices to present that when it went through when it went to the mayor and it went to city council. So we're we're well aware of that. But I would not be doing my job if I wasn't presenting things that I see that could be challenges for the department. >> Um I I do appreciate though just this us heating that for next year. And though if I'm remembering correctly, too, the ladder truck was an issue with that. I can't remember the acronym, but like the thing that cost everybody else in the cities and insurance to go up. Is that correct? >> Yep. >> So, like that is

138a cost that either way the tax bill payer was going to experience whether it was through insurance or through purchasing. Um I is what else comes out of the revolving account ambulance revolving account? >> Everything that's listed there. So, training overtime specifically for EMT. Remember I told you that there are requirements for training. There's a minimum of 20 hours a year of training that the firefighters need to go through to maintain the certificate. So, that's paid for out of that. Uh overtime specifically geared toward the ambulance comes out of that. Recall primary transport. That is a contractual issue. That's our last estimate on that. Uh and then holiday incentive and clothing are contractual obligations that fall usually under the ordinary budget, but because we're assuming those responsibilities for those three firefighters, that comes out of

139this account including the the clothing allowance um that's listed there. You'll see the software reporting program. The entire reporting program is now coming out of this account and that's listed there. Health insurance fringe benefits of $47,000. No department really sees that. That's a a line that's really kept someplace out in the budget, but because it's required to be paid out of this, it comes out of that line item. So, that's where you see the fringe benefits. Um billing services. Uh this has gone up quite a bit. Billing services are when we do a transport, we send it out for billing. They only bill us on what they collect. There's a certain percentage. If that money goes up, it means we're doing a heck of a lot more transports. So, that's why you'll see the increase

140in that. Vehicle maintenance, self-explanatory for the ambulance. Intercept fees, we run a basic BLS service. Sometimes when we go to transport a patient, they are a high acuity call and we need some assistance from an ALS level based off a protocol. That's usually South County or Northfield that comes in. They charge us when they come in. So, that's what that fee is for. Medical supplies, self-explanatory. Medical supplies is all medical supplies for the for the fire department. It used to be shared, it's now all coming out of that account. EMS training, um that pays a a vendor to come in and and and keep us up-to-date on the required trainings. It does not cover the cost of the firefighters to go to that training. EMS lease equipment, right now that's paying for our monitor, an

141annual fee for our monitor, and then the ambulance lease is self-explanatory. >> Do we So, we lease one ambulance and one fire truck? >> That's correct. >> How much is an ambulance? >> Close to a half a million. >> Okay. >> An engine right now, a standard engine is about 1.2. A ladder truck is 2 million. >> And is that what we lease, a standard engine? >> Yes. Which we bought I think it was about 600 or 700,000 when we bought it. We bought the same truck right now would be about a 1.3 million-dollar purchase. >> So you see that you have dues and memberships on both the regular and then also the revolving or there's just split tick for the three >> No, dues and membership under fire prevention is because the fire prevention

142officer is a member of the fire prevention organization for Massachusetts. Again, valuable. They that organization works together um on um enforcement issues and and things like that. >> So fire inspectors, so um there's myself and Captain Cooley, we have continuing education. Uh it's on a 3-year basis, but you're required to have uh continuing education credits each year and part of that is going to those state meetings and those fire prevention association meetings and there's a fee for each class to get those credits. >> So that was the fire prevention account um and that's all um that's all efforts to for the fire prevention bureau. There's also a lease that comes out of that. That 32,000's paying for two vehicles. >> And I didn't like it's >> She's here with the deputy chief. >> We're allowed

143to pay for salaries per DOR out of revolving, but it's not like it's not like encouraged, right? >> Encouraged. >> Or sorry, I I said revolving out of revenue accounts. >> Yeah, um however, this one is a recurring every single year, so it's not as frowned upon as others. >> Okay, any other questions for ambulance revenue? >> When I said the vehicles that are coming out of I was talking about prevention, not the vehicles. >> Yeah, I know. I caught I caught that. I just wanted to make sure before Um and then that was next thing was any questions for fire prevention revenue. And those two um those two vehicles we you said we leased them and what what are those vehicles what type of vehicles? >> So uh those leases are not like standard

144leases for uh as as civilian lease. Yeah. These are lease to own so that it's usually just the it's more like a financing but it's at a a municipal term. >> Okay. >> So that's actually the chief corrected uh and it's actually three vehicles right now. >> Okay. >> And that would be the the three newest administrative vehicles. So that'd be the chief and the deputy's vehicles as well as we purchased a used uh electric pickup truck and that's uh the one I'm currently assigned. So those three vehicles are out of that lease line. >> Is that an own plug-in? I was like I didn't know that they had a an electric one. >> We do. Yeah. >> Um >> We uh the the administrative vehicles for the last 30 years have come out of

145this account. It has not been a capital purchase. >> Yeah. So those ones are like a lease to own but the ambulance and the fire are like a >> lease to own. >> Those are lease to own, too. Okay, great. >> Thank you. >> When we did the fire truck the the lease uh percentage was actually cheaper than buying it. >> Uh-huh. >> So that's why the procedure was made back then. We can do that. >> Okay. Any other questions or comment for fire? >> I'm struck by how much the billing services are. Just just a just remarkable. $35,000. >> Yeah, you know that's actually a good number because the higher that goes, it means the more revenue we're bringing in. >> Right. Yeah. >> When we looked at billing services, the billing company that

146we went with had some of the better returns in our area. And also the lowest billing fees. >> Remember, we don't we don't get billed unless they collect. So, that's >> We're ultimately responsible to pay them. >> Sure. >> But that's why it's budgeted. >> But that's an actual that it looks like it's a high number, but the higher that goes, it means more revenue the more revenue that's coming into that account. >> Great. Thank you all. >> Thank you. >> for your time and this presentation. Very thorough. >> I will send the document over. >> Thank you so much. Um I do want to give an opportunity for a break. Um so, we will um come back at 8:00 on the dot, which is like about 7 minutes. I think this this one. This

147is like the most staff. You feel like we took we took >> It's too big a department. >> Just schools and a couple of little things. But in this Yeah, I don't think I'll ever I know. Oh, well, okay. This opportunity like this year >> No, you You're still thinking that >> I just don't think >> I think that's There we go. >> How are you guys doing everyone sick? >> Yeah, I think >> Yeah, we need a new computer. >> Yeah, oh yeah. >> It's just like >> Yeah. >> I hear you going to buy it. Thank you. >> How are you? >> Good to see you. >> I'll see you at 6. >> Welcome. >> What's up? >> Right now I'm good, right? >> Very >> period of time. >> Happy to be

148honest. >> It's okay. He's happy for them to be >> Those of you that missed the first two things >> Yeah, for sure. Yeah. All right. >> I'm good. >> Can't see my fingers. >> I'm burning the midnight oil here. >> I can do it. >> I can hear you. >> And what is it? >> You got a favor right now? >> Don't worry about >> Right? >> I just spent a little bit of time in the warm shower. >> Smart. >> Say there. >> She has two packages. >> Oh, wow. >> That little fight. >> Yes. >> Um >> I would >> Take my time. >> Setting up the zoom >> I should have I went up there. >> But we were going to >> Okay, I'm going to bring us back. >> Page

149105. >> What you want to start with is 101. >> Um Which one is where you think? >> Uh dispatch you know for party 111 113 >> Sure, let's start there. This pencil? Um there's this discrepancy in the total. Um >> Well, this is 101. >> All right, I will let's start with um 213 dispatch. I'll do this network problem. And um one page 111. Hi. >> Hi. How are you? >> Good, how are you? >> So, we invited Cindy. Um Cindy Hunter is the manager of the dispatch center, dispatch center supervisor. >> Hi, Cindy. >> Millie outshined us good today with his presentation and handouts. Um anything you need, however, we can help provide to you. Nice to be in this house, so um I'm not sure I'm I'm still a rookie at this

150process, so I'll take questions or what would you like me to do? >> Um >> Would you like my presentation? >> If you have a presentation for dispatch, for dispatch we'd take that first and >> I can do that and I can that. Also, Cindy can add her two cents to that. Dispatch, as most know, is a 24/7 operation that serves all of the city Ringfield, police, fire, primarily, but they also start with the medical calls, off-duty hours for DPW. They will be a dispatcher for them. Um they take Cindy probably has better numbers than me, but they take literally hundreds of thousands of calls a year into the dispatch center. You heard the numbers from fire. Add another 40,000 for police, and that's what they're sending us on. Um and them range from, you

151know, premise checks to uh sadly, homicides. So, they're 40,000 plus. I think we were 42, 43. >> And that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what dispatch deals with. So, they actually have our dispatch is unique in that it's the city's dispatch, so they will deal with walk-ins, anybody who comes in and out, or someone coming to pick up correspondence, they will deal with them, they will get that correspondence to them. Uh but they answer the business lines, they answer the 911 calls. Again, hundreds of thousands of calls. Um and it's 24/7, and there's at least two dispatchers per shift to handle that many calls. So, Cindy can add to that. Thanks. >> Um we do we do staff, like he said, at least two dispatchers shift. Fortunately, we were very

152very fortunate that we now have our we call our vacation relief spot filled. Um prior to that, it's only been filled for about two weeks. We have finally finished training for two new dispatchers. Um but so we've had that position filled for about two weeks prior to that. Essentially, any day off for a dispatcher requires overtime if we don't have that position filled. Unlike the police and fire department, where they may have the extra staffing to give a day off. Um so, I think one of the important things to take into consideration is how much overtime that's going to save financially, but also uh wear and tear on our dispatchers and their mental health and the stress that they go through, especially with forced overtime. Um we've been very fortunate that we do have dispatchers

153who like to work overtime, but forced overtime is never fun and it takes away from their families and special occasions and so forth. So, are you >> Are you saying that nobody's getting days off or like everyone's working >> No. So, no. I'm What I'm saying is that any day off requires somebody to work overtime because there is no extra person to to fill it. >> like regular weekends. >> Uh so, so our dispatchers work a schedule of 5-2 and 5-3. So, five on, two off, five on, three off. >> Okay. >> Um now, with the vacation relief spot, what that person what that person normally will be doing is filling long-term vacations, long-term absences. Uh they can fill an occasional day off with There are parameters I have to follow. I have to give

154them a certain amount of notice before I change their schedule. Uh but that person will fill a lot of those shifts that would have then gone to overtime prior to that. So, I think in the long term, it's going to be very financially beneficial. >> And And the point of that is like to to reference police, there may be shifts where we have five people on. So, if someone asks for a day off, generally, we can grant that without invoking overtime. Unlike dispatch, which requires those two to be in there. So, there's never a time when three are scheduled. Cindy, as an NR employee or actually a salaried employee, covers a a of those shifts so as to not cost overtime. So, we stay within our budget on That was the deal we kind of

155made up in the beginning is and she's she's sitting the desk quite a bit, probably more than we would like, you know, cuz she has her administrative duties. >> I can say I think in the last few months especially cuz we we had someone who was out for a bit of an absence and then we had two people that were training. Uh I was doing in excess of probably a 80 to 90 hours at least on the desk a month. Sometimes more. Um and that's and I don't as he said it I'm salary so I don't I don't uh acquire overtime. So, this I either just work hours that I'm not being paid for or I do it in place of my normal my normal rotation. >> Keep your skills up. >> That's >> Thank

156you for your service. Am I seeing that the same amount is budgeted for for overtime than last year even though there is a um probability that that it >> Well, we we try we try to plan for things that may happen. I think that that was the thinking in the chief for the chief when he put that number on there. >> Yeah, uh the reason why that is that way is because this year it was 45,000 and we are drastically over on that. So, in an attempt to forecast the upcoming year, we increased our request to 60. So, although we're taking every step we can to mitigate the overtime and Cindy's certainly covering a lot of shifts to mitigate the overtime, it is absolutely overtime heavy because any time off request is overtime. So, uh

157they all get the the contractually accumulated sick time, vacation time, comp time, and and all the stuff that you know, every other employee accrues. So, overtime is a is a big expenditure, but it is monitored and reduced quite well through uh um Cindy's efforts, but also we have per diems that can can come in and cover some shifts that we like to keep rotating through. Um they have to work quite a bit in order to stay on top of their game, otherwise it's actually cumbersome and and a problem for us. Um but we also apply for and every year we get the training grant, so the training pays for all of their 40-hour in-service each year, so that's 40,000 Well, probably about 20 20-ish thousand that the city doesn't have to pay. >> I hear

158that for the training grant that we are forgiving each year. >> And then we get the 120 plus um support incentive grant. Yeah. >> Um we do have currently five per diems on our roster and they are they all have been very dedicated. Uh one girl was working uh in our lowest point when we had our two trainees, uh she was working probably 30 hours a week plus in addition to her full-time job. Um that's sometimes that's the struggle we run into is that they all do have full-time jobs and we have a couple of our college students, uh but they've definitely given us a lot of hours, which ultimately would have gone to overtime. So, they do save us a lot. >> But it says you're at 77,000 for overtime right now and you're

159hoping that 50,000 will cover with the new um emergency person. >> Yeah, um you know, I think fire sort of alluded to the fact that if they're fully staffed, the likelihood of that overtime going down is increases. So, if we can stay fully staffed, we'll have less overtime. That hasn't been the case. We've had quite a bit of turnover, more than we would like in the dispatch center. So, um we're hoping that that doesn't happen. We're hoping that we can finally get to a point where it's calm and and we can maintain for some longevity. Um, but in going through, if you want me to just go through the lines, I mean, most of these are contractual based on uh time on. So, the dispatch supervisor is is contractual. Um, there's eight dispatchers that are

160at top step. There is one that's at C step and one at B step. Um, the C step one is the one that was cut next year. So, the anticipated dispatcher was dropped. So, um you can see how the requested 51865 was zeroed out by that. >> Can I Sorry, can I ask a question about that? Can someone um I'm not familiar with how the steps work for this union. So, can someone come in at a higher step if they're a new employee based on >> Yep. >> Um, so, we our two new trainees, our newest two dispatchers, one actually had prior experience. Uh she had the certifications that we require. Uh so, we didn't have to spend that money to take to send her to those those classes. Um, if you come in uh

161with experience, we do give you the um the steps. So, if you come in with 2 years experience, we give you step two. We give you up to step two. So, if you're someone with experience, you you would get to a higher step. >> Okay. >> And then this is a contractual. So, it's they're paid commensurate with experience. >> Right. Thank you. That's helpful. >> It has to be the state certified thing. >> Yeah. >> It's going to be the same story for the police side when we get there, too. >> It's the same >> Okay. >> Um, shift diff contractual. And obviously forecasted based on previous years. Holiday pay, same thing. Incentive pay, we only have one who receives it based on contract. Um I believe that was something that was negotiated out of

162their contract and there was a uh sort of a grandfather clause in there to give to that person with an incentive pay. Clothing allowance is contractual. Equipment replace You're You're going to see the increases here. Um and these were discussions that I've been having for the last several years. Um and made the requests and and hopefully pass them this year is that the dispatch center is in the same building as the police department, but it is in fact it's entire It's its own operation. And like I said, and I'm this isn't minimizing anybody, but they dispatch for other departments as much if not more than they do for the police department. But the police department picks up the tab for every bit of resources that the dispatch center uses. Uh and and we're not we're

163not necessarily complaining about that, but we need to be more clear on where the money is going. So if if it looks like I'm asking for $30,000 for supplies, 10 of that goes to dispatch, you should know that. So they go through the same thing if not more of what we go through in terms of paper, toner cartridges, maintenance of those things. Um and again, like I said, it's it's the dispatchers that are are passing that stuff out through the windows, right? So um they go through those things. Toner cartridges are absolutely horrendously expensive these days. Uh and and it's not getting cheaper. So we're having to prepare for those things. Um so what I had been requesting for quite some time, we finally um so far got it to that point is we need

164dispatch to be funded for those things, for those office supplies, for those equipment replacements. There's I I I know how many of you have actually come in and toured through there. There's a lot of equipment that goes into a dispatch center. A lot of high-tech equipment. I'm happy to say that um the deputy chief and I went in and actually tore the old place down on our off time and remodeled that dispatch center. So, we we actually brag that come up and take a look cuz it is it is a beautiful facility right now. So, we saved on our own over six figures to the city last year last year or year before because we would come in and we got dumpsters, we got it it out, we were sheetrocking, I was framing walls, I

165was we were doing all this stuff. Um but again, it's not just police this and that's a common misconception that dispatch is just for policing. It's not. It's for the city. They dispatch for all emergency operations for the city including DPW on on their off hours. So, um they need the supplies and I know that looked like a spike in our request for dispatch, but it's stuff that they need. >> Yeah, that all makes sense to me. I have more question on the difference between uniforms and clothing. >> So, uniforms um I think the uniform >> So, the >> replacements is what we will pay for. So, when when a new dispatcher is hired, we have to sort of front them a uniform, right? Because they don't yet qualify under contract to get a clothing

166allowance. >> So, currently we currently we buy two uniform shirts and a pair of pants. >> So, we need a little bit of money to buy their startup uniforms and then once they once they finished a year, then it goes to the uniform expect they get the clothing allowance stuff. >> Can you explain how the clothing allowance works? >> It's contractual every year. I don't know what you what do you >> Uh it's it's $400 per dispatcher is what they negotiated with the city. Um and they uh they have to put in a request for what they're buying whether it's we have a we have a a uniform policy so they have to adhere to that. Um if the if the the purchase is made through we have a department Amazon account that we can

167access. The deputy actually has to approve purchases, so we're watching what they're buying to make sure it's that it adheres to the uniform policy. >> But that we we recently recently came up with an agreement. This was actually in conversations with the mayor, myself, and the admin staff. This is just payout money. So, if if dispatchers, police, same way, if they don't use their clothing allowance by the end of the fiscal year, it gets returned to the city. So, and that that could potentially be quite a bit returned. We have to sort of honor the contractual obligation ahead of time, right? So, her Sydney's employees need to have that $400,000 I'm sorry, $400 accounted for. Uh but at the end of that fiscal year, that could very well return if they don't spend it. Yeah.

168And that just started in this last contract. >> Number of FTEs for Is it 10 total? And then there's a then but there's per diem. >> So, we have uh 10 full-time dispatchers and then then myself, so 11 a supervisor plus 10 and then we have five per diems right now. >> Okay. >> In FY 26, 11 was approved. We're dropping to 10 going into FY 27. >> Okay. 11 FTEs and then supervisor. >> No, it was it was 10 10 plus Sydney. So, 11 FTEs total for dispatch. But going into FY 27, we're budgeting for 10. >> Okay. >> The one was cut. But not a not an actual person at this point, just a position. >> It's an open position. >> They're very very you know, particular about she did she doesn't want

169to see layoffs. So, we're we're sort of working through attrition here. If this individual is not here yet, we're just going to work it that way. So, um position was eliminated by attrition, I would say. >> Okay, great. Any other questions for dispatch? >> Mr. Bottom, anything? >> All right, let's move past to parking. Thank you so much for coming. I think it was really helpful to have you here. >> Thank you so much. >> Um, okay. Page 113, parking enforcement. >> I wish Judy was here. She's actually in charge of parking right now. Not a lot of big changes on this. We have two part-time parking enforcement people. Um, their salary is what they negotiated. Um, the parking meters contract, that's a that's a um I believe that's what we pay for service contract.

170Um, parking tickets, we have to buy them. In order for them to write them, we got to have the tickets for them to write them on. And meters and materials, so we take into account previous years and expenses, and that's just I don't think much changed if anything on that. I think we dropped a a couple bucks on it. So, um it's just the stuff they need to to write their tickets and I know that Judy just worked to replace all of the handheld machines that actually write the tickets. >> Do we make all this money back and where? >> Yeah. >> There's an enterprise fund, which we should just look at right now while we're looking at this. Um, this one. I don't Oh. >> An enterprise fund? >> I think it's an enterprise

171fund. >> Yeah. >> No, there used to be enterprise funds. >> But that's a revenue >> Water and sewer. Water and sewer. >> Um, there's not No, there's ordinance enforcement, but that's not under there. That's under the clerk's office for revolving accounts. >> Right. So, that money collected from parking >> Does that go in Yeah, where What does that go into? >> and you asked something about marijuana. We have to tally all the revenues that come in. >> Yeah. >> And somebody asked it. Um All the revenues that come in are reported on the revenue sheet that we went over last week. It's in the the general revenue account. And it's very general of revenue. They're like four of them. I don't know dollars. Um, that you know Catherine divides that out. It's a specific

172item like rules. >> Oh, yeah. Parking meter receipts. >> Uh, pay as Yeah, pay as you >> Uh, building permits for etc., etc., but it does not have a special account like a revolving account or enterprise fund. It goes in It is labeled. And actually, you asked the question last week. We both got sick right after that. >> I know. I was going home. >> No, I do not have the answer on the breakdown on the parking. So, as you were starting to look at that, I thought, "Oh, yeah." I was under the covers. So, I have to give me to find that out later. >> Yeah, cool. >> They're They come. >> But for >> know that the revenues that I'm looking at in the last five years are down from last year. That's

173why we decreased on the estimate that went into the um overall budget. We decreased that from 350 to 2. >> Yeah, which last year was 350. >> Yep. >> And so So Does that include the 81 for the um expenses? Or that's So we're making we're making >> We're making more than we we put into this this year's out, you know, salary. >> So last last year we made 250 in parking. That >> Yeah. >> That Well, 250 in parking meter receipts. >> Parking meter receipts. >> Is the estimate. >> Right. >> Um for this year. >> Okay. That we're >> Right. >> But it's actually more than that. What we put into the put into balance the budget was $250,000. The receipts will be higher than that. And I can get you >> have

174that number? >> I don't. I I didn't do that. Yes. >> Oh, so for 25 was 350 the actual receipts or was that what was put into balance the budget? >> That's what's put into balance the budget. That's not the actual receipt. >> Okay. And then where does the remainder go? >> The remainder go into the general fund. But it's it you know, it's put into the general fund. We have to break all of that out at the end of the year, but we have to measure each thing before each thing line by line of what it is. And doing the operating at the end of this Is that done for 25? >> I'm sorry. >> All the revenue done for 25 should be in. >> Okay. All right. Are any of these the actual

175receipts? Like in the estimated receipts or are they just like estimates? >> The At the end of every year you have to break it down actual, like the actual number for what it was. >> Yeah. >> But when you go to do the budget for fiscal year 27, you make an estimate of what all the receipts will be. And you've done up the last two years on the estimates, the overall estimates. >> But above the local estimated receipts, those are actuals for 24 and 25. >> What page are you >> Sorry, page 27. From page 27 in the estimated if that whole section is estimated receipts, but if you look above these lines Sorry, these lines don't have line numbers, which is brutal for me. But um third from the bottom is local estimated receipts.

176Above that you have like the cherry sheets, the the MSBA, the sewer enterprise, the water enterprise. Everything for 2024 and 25 is actual. And then the local estimated are the estimated, but this when you make right what I think what the mayor is saying is when you make the budget book, it's all an estimate for 26 because we haven't closed the books yet. We'll vote to close the books I don't remember when we do that. Or we'll like approve >> We'll tell tell you what the number is. >> Yeah. And I It's like the August meeting. >> They they take a look at it and say that's not okay. >> Yeah. So are we not able to put the actuals for 24 and 25 if we have those numbers? >> If can do have those

177numbers um but when we look at this it's these are receipts reserved so this is reserved revenue to go to head go and offset the budget so that's just like the we we take in more money but that's the only bit that we use to to offset the budget. >> Okay, parking. So um 250 is the estimated revenue for this year. Any other questions for parking? Eat them up there. All right, let's move to the police operating budget. >> So just a little background that Debbie keeps handing out I've been sort of compiling a list of accomplishments and things of that nature since taking over and see in February of 2024 um that I believe are just worth mentioning to the public. Um and and I think it gives a little overview about where we're

178going, what our mindset is, the direction we're looking to go in so um we reduced top heaviness by dropping lieutenant's position and adding a patrol officer position. You'll notice in the budget right now that that patrol officer position that I'm speaking about was actually dropped going to FY27 but we can talk about that more. Uh reorganized management to run more efficiently a continuing and evolving effort. Um there was a lot of things both physically and procedurally that we changed in house. Something as simple as moving offices to the right locations to assigning um essentially round pegs round holes which we've reaped the benefits of. Um again, as I had mentioned, we took over and completed the massive dispatch renovation project, saving the city over $100,000. For those who weren't aware, um I think we were

179planning on spending probably about 225 to 250,000 dollars on redoing the dispatch center. The lowest bid came in at about 475. Um so the mayor, this was when we were both very new, she sort of like, "Do you want me to try to find that money?" I said, "Absolutely not. That's That's ludicrous at that that much money." That to me so it just seemed like they were trying to take advantage of a city. So, um we sat on it for a minute and then I asked her permission, "I need you give me permission, I'm going to go in here and start gutting this thing." So, we did that and I'm glad we did. Um and we're again, we're proud of it. Uh I could not thank our central maintenance team more. Um they were they

180lived in there um probably more than we did while it was redone. Um our IT department, also a bunch of superstars, they helped move us in uh to the dispatch center or dispatch into our roll call and then back. It's not an easy process and and everybody came together every time to make that happen. So, um we had a drainage project and replaced a department shed along the back hill. That drainage project, yet another problem. Um they pulled up the the lines to the generator during that and that was also fun. Um while doing this, we renovated the meeting room, uh which is our roll call room, at virtually no cost. We used some of the materials left over from dispatch and we went to work on that. Uh we created and presented a responsible

181budget for FY 25. We did the same in FY 26. Um and we're we're tracking well um despite numerous challenges with that, not the least of which was uh buybacks for retiring employees, which we had plenty. Uh we secured We're in the process of renovating our This was all that I'm kicking off downtown substation. That's obviously now completed. Initiated for the first time a civilian liaison to the police department to bridge gaps between citizens and members of our department. We initiated a business district officer position to work with the civilian liaison, business owners, citizens, etc. We plan to add a second business district officer when staffing permits. That would have been that position. Um Counselor Brown did make that request the other day and and the answer to her question is is that position supposed

182to be earmarked for our second downtown business district? That is what that position would have been. Um we do however we're lucky enough to have Sheriff Streeter. Um she has one of her sergeants walking the beat with us downtown. So um Jake McCauley. So Jake McCauley and for those who haven't met her Zoe, um they they spend a lot of time in and out of businesses and working downtown. So we do have two down there. We did want a second from Greenfield. Um we developed and expanded upon the community impact unit. We really that's a that's the the um that's all of us really but it's the ones who run down to who you know as Bicycle Bob. I don't know if those who have heard he gives a lot of resources that we help

183um provide many things to the unhoused community in Greenfield regularly. So um we initiated the replacement of much needed patrol cars. That's still very much in need. Um we've been consolidating our fleet of unmarked cars by trading two, three, etc. for one better condition vehicle for detectives. We'll continue continue to do so as the unmarked fleet continues to age. The plan is to reduce our fleet to the most efficient level as possible. So so um the public can be aware that money the the way we did that was we took again two or three used cruisers or unmarked, traded them towards used unmarked. And they were just newer, less used unmarked. That money came from LET funds, so not out of taxpayer. So, all those replacements, we managed to replace our unmarked fleet, which is

184much needed um at no expense to the taxpayer. So, and they're They're They're cars that are probably 3 years old, 4 years old with maybe 30 to 40,000 miles on them. Uh and those are used by our detectives uh and special unit stuff. So, they're outfitted with detective-like equipment in them. Um Let's see. Took giant steps to enhance our overall reputation. We're working to reestablish trust and respect between us and the community by being present, introducing ourselves in person to you. I know for for any who notice uh the deputy chief and I at the very least try to be at every council meeting and as many other meetings as we can possibly make it to. Um we're asking the same of our staff. Everybody is asked to get out of their cars and interact

185with people rather than just driving by. So, we're we will continue to work on that. Grants allowed us to obtain and install additional traffic control radar signs and monitoring equipment. More grants recently received to do the same. We continue to aggressively seek out grants. Um in fact, we had a conversation today between myself, the deputy chief, and our lieutenants about potential upcoming grants. We try to snag as many of those as we possibly can. So, um Continue to use the cops grant. Um I'm I'm I'm certain you guys are familiar with the cops grant. The cops grant was a grant I wrote a little over 3 years ago, and we um I'm proud to say we were only one of two municipalities at that time that were awarded that grant for $375,000. That $375,000 went

186towards three police officers. Uh like many grants, you had a sort of a taper off grant. So, you start out the the bigger burden is on the feds paying for those three, uh but by the end of 3 years, the bigger burden's on us. And then year four, which is what we're coming into, is 100% on us. That's the deal. So, they gave us $375,000, which which sustained a large portion of three officer salaries. So, I believe I got one more uh request that I can make from that grant, and it's all paid. So, we've exhausted that funds. >> Is there a sustaining any sustaining grants from DOJ for that? >> I keep looking for those. One caveat with the cops grant is you can't get one when you have one. >> Right. Okay. >>

187So, um I will more aggressively be looking through that again once this one is expired. So, once we sign off it, I think the next quarter will be the end of that, and then I'll be looking for that again. So, >> This one is one that's concerning to me just because um like when we were voting on this, we still had ARPA dollars and things like that that was more unrestricted, and we don't have that anymore, and so um I'm just I'm concerned about and I was concerned about then and I abstained from this vote. >> That's to get the grant? >> Yes, because I didn't feel like it was responsible for us in the financial situation we were in to increase funding, um which we would have to adopt uh or pay back. >>

188Yeah. >> So, it's there's some concern there. >> Yeah. And I know we're contractually obligated to keep them on for the next 2 years, I think. Um but I guess my question is the fire chief also spoke about a grant similar to this, and they decided to not go with it. I'm curious, like if we didn't get these three positions, would we be not in line with like practice of having enough people or >> So again, what what we operate on is we have um up coming into this year, we have a total of what we call 35 sworn. That's going down to 34 sworn. What 34 does is it allows us to have basically four officers and a supervisor per shift. That's the extent of it based on their four-on-two-off schedule. So these three,

189the three that are covered by the grant, based on the way things have worked out, are very high up now in the seniority chain. There's little to no risk of losing them to that grant, right? Then you're not going to lose them. They have got to have a dozen people under them. >> So we lose patrol officers. We lose people. >> them, it won't be them. Yeah. We lose them. So the one that again, the one that's being cut, the FTE that's being cut is a non-existent person at this point. We haven't We had two hired that we were planning on sending to an academy. Both of them didn't make it for one reason or another. One chose not to, one didn't make it. And that wasn't because of us, that was because they failed

190the standards required to get into the academy or chose not to go. Um that put us very much behind because I'm trying to hire officers today. We don't dictate when the academy start. That's all on the state. So now, what we're trying to do because of the way POST requires us to do things, they can't be nobody can be an officer until you complete a full-time 800 hour Academy. Used to be able to do part-timers. Part-timers could be I think it was I when I went through it was like a 120 hour Academy and then you could cover shifts. If you're hired within a year, the municipality must send you to the full-time Academy. Now it's just full-time Academy. What happens with that is we don't know the people who are applying. You don't know.

191Back in the day, you could sort of vet out your candidates by having them work and you could tell how they would work out there whether or not there was a good fit. To hire them straight from a list doesn't help us at anything. So what we're doing is we hired two ahead of time. They don't have arrest powers, but we can certainly pre-load some training into them and we can certainly get a feel for whether or not they want to do it and they can get a feel for whether or not they want to do it. And like I said, in this particular case, as sad as it is, the plan we used worked. Because once they go off to an Academy, that's full-time pay for someone not here and that's 6 months. 6

192months of full-time pay and benefits for someone we don't get any benefit from. So it worked out as we had hoped. They vetted out. One didn't want to do it but because they didn't, we didn't waste 6 months Academy on that person or spend 6 months on Academy, then they work for 2 months and realize I don't want to do it and we just put all that money into them. Um and then the other one again, we didn't waste any money because they just didn't pass tests. So um we saved a lot. So we spent a lot to get them because that's the way life is now. The gear is expensive, but we didn't spend 6 months paying paying paying them and then >> I guess I have a question with I mean adding three

193full-time positions is a lot for any department and were you understaffed when you put the grant in and so now you're appropriately staffed? >> Yes. Yep. We're not fully staffed, but we're not in dire straits either. At that point in time we're in a far worse situation. So, the rules of the grant were it it you you could call layoff employees back. Um or you could add. So, it was a community policing grant was the gist of it. You could hire for community policing related purposes. Um so, we were short that many. So, those three qualified. In fact, the the two most senior are sort of static. So, the third one is the third name assigned to that because two others didn't make it. They left on their own or whatever. So, uh it's a

194third name. He's actually a transfer that we took from Hammers PD. He had about 10 years on. He's now a detective for us. So, it's been an absolute win for us. Better officers. >> So, somebody goes to the academy the 6 months full-time pay full benefits. Isn't there a quid pro quo involved? And there isn't? >> Well, we've tried this for years. We tried it Now, sometimes back in the day it was instituted like you must pay back and then >> Well, you're you commit for x amount of time to the department. >> Get the money. You know, go after him. You can't. So, bottom line is it's a great plan, but you there's nothing you can get back from them. We also tried an alternative of we're only going to pay academy recruit 90%

195right? So, we're saving 10% and that was found to be a violation of contract. Federal labor laws, state labor laws, they were very clear you can't do that. And like I said, procedurally, realistically speaking, if I went through an academy and 2 months later I didn't want to do this job you want your money back? I don't have it. I'm not working. I stopped working. So, I'll get it to you when I can. It's It's not a reasonable thought. So, uh will some pay it back? Maybe. But, most of them just walk off into the sunset and leave us hanging. >> So, sorry. I have a question. Am I misunderstanding that the three officers that we hired with the COPS grant are not three like entry-level? They're We ended up hiring like a 10-year veteran.

196>> Yes. >> And >> One 10-year veteran. >> Two were brand new. So, we sent them through the academy. >> And the other two were brand new. And are those two still with us? >> Yes. >> And those two are still with us. Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. And the other ones were entry-level. >> I feel like the other ones were hired. >> Yeah, the two before the last one were Well, actually not One wasn't quite entry-level cuz he had worked for Northampton for a little while. He went through their training program, didn't make it through their training program. We gave him a shot. He didn't make it through our training. So, um and then the one that came from Amherst, yeah, he had close to 10 years, I think. >> Yeah, 14. >> Yeah.

197>> And he's still with us. >> He's still with us. >> So, we still have two of the three? >> We got three of them. Three Yeah. Three that are covered by the grant now. They're They're with us right now. >> Okay. Okay. >> Um so, I'll just keep going on the list. Um We utilize funds from the bulletproof vest grant to offset costs of vest purchases. We We keep that going. A deputy chief maintains that. That's one that I had gotten years ago that we keep going. So, any bulletproof vest that we buy, um the feds pay us half. So, we don't the residents don't have to pay all of it. Um We continue to apply for and receive significant grant funding to assist in paying for our dispatch operation. Um one of the

198really good things that the state did uh relatively recently was they started giving additional money for agencies that have co-response programs. And I believe that was up to about 35,000 more than what we are used to seeing. So, thank thank I I I tripped over that when I'm reading cuz I had done that grant for years, and I said, "Wait a minute, what is this?" And I reached out to the top of 911. They said, "Send us your your stats." And we sent them in and we got another $35,000 for that. So, again, we're we're constantly looking for that to try to offset costs. Um we are constantly, again, another thing we're working with to attract a more diverse applicant pool, uh so as to properly represent the community we serve. This was a promise

199I made from the beginning. I still intend to work in that direction. Um we've made baby steps, uh but our mind is still focused that way. Uh we utilize work crews from the Franklin County House of Correction to freshen up many areas throughout the building at a cost of just materials, which is paint. We have Yep. >> So, uh and I think inmates from the House of Correction, they don't get a work stipend or anything? >> That's not up to us. I don't know. We just We fill in work orders and they come in and their team brings them over and we buy them snacks. We'll buy them coffees and whatever they they can have. Uh but they do a lot They've done a lot of work for us. They've painted a lot of areas

200around our building. So, it's part of their work work outside program. Um we've observed uh what we believe is steady increases in morale, security, and confidence amongst our employees. We revamp, reorganize various >> Sorry, I wanted to address that one, too. So, um I am wondering cuz I I don't want to gloss over the fact that we had major issues within our police department in the last, you know, 5 to 8 years. And um it's obviously under new leadership now, um but I do think it's really important that we have a structure way that we're understanding how culture has shift within shifted within the department. So I'm wondering if you can talk about that one that like how are you evaluating that culture and morale has shifted um because just from my initial years on

201council and the things that I heard from people within the the department from the public um we had a major culture problem and so I'd love to know that like what the actual things are being done to um implement new culture and um confidence. >> So a lot of what we do actually it starts right in the interview process and we have invited many new faces certainly a more diverse group to the panel. And we don't want to necessarily be the final decision makers as to who we're bringing into our police department. Um we've had members of public safety sit in and we welcome that very much. We've had other um general residents sit in. We've had the chief of staff Aaron Anhalt has sat in um and prior to her Danny would sit in

202on those interviews um and offer up their opinions as we do our interviews. Um I think we've gotten alone just as that alone a better product out of that. Um we're looking at it from drastically different directions and what we had previously been looking at a good candidate for. Um an example of one of the most recent was I sat in on the interview and I was amazed at how much this young man spoke of community policing. I mean to to the absolute depths of community policing. And I was I was overwhelmed. I said this is perfect. This is is what we're looking for. Um we also call it, you know, it's what we call our QA stuff. We're watching our officers work through the use of their body cams. We also spend a lot

203of time with them. We speak with them. Communication is obviously key. We don't know what's going on unless we have that. And we have to gauge a lot based on that. So, when we're watching our officer working through their body cam, we can see just how respectful they are. I have been getting this last couple weeks alone and I noted in this list is I have been getting constant praise for the patience that our officers have been exhibiting while on very critical types of calls. One of the most recent was from hospital staff actually in the crisis unit who praised our officers for deploying the de-escalation tactics that they did and successfully resolved an otherwise chaotic situation. So, I I take those things and we take those things and we meet as a command staff

204regularly and that's our gauge. And and again, we talk about the calls that our officers have been on. We take into account the praises that we receive. We also take into account very simple stuff which is noted in here. We have our special response team. Our special response team has been deployed several times for some pretty nasty things. 100% of the time we got through these calls with zero injuries. Absolutely zero injuries. So, in showing up on these calls, I know that that mine and as well as the deputy chief's first words are, take your time. Take your time. There's no rush to get through this right now for for everybody's sake. So, It It's It's arguably top to bottom. We rely on a lot of outside opinion to tell us Ooh, also asked and

205I'll and I'll continue to do so is it is not our police department, it is the city's police department. So, we're always looking we hopefully will be hiring some in the future and we need help with that. So, um I said it before very openly that if white males are trying or are the only ones recruiting, we're probably going to get white males. So, I need help. I need other people to help with the recruiting into this police department. If we're ever going to get successful in in making it more diverse, we number one we need to make people feel comfortable to come and do that job. Um it's tough. It's a it's tough. Um but we want to do it. So, we we're not going to give up on it. And again, things seem

206to be calmer, seem to be um praised for politeness quite often and and certainly praised for patience, which I think patience is probably the most important because that's what's really going to solve the problems. You need to take the time. Patience in translation for police work costs money. So, just something to keep in mind. You know, our bosses, my bosses, his bosses, I know this from 30 years ago, you better get done with that call. The only thing they cared about was you getting done with the call you're on right now. They didn't care what you did. They didn't care how you did it. They just want you to get on to the next call so that they didn't have to go on a call. So, it was hurry up. It and there was no

207compassion. There was none of that stuff. We're not asking for that now. We're asking take that extra time. We will figure the rest out. The administration will figure out how to pay for it. We need you to stay. And they're doing it. They are doing it every day. So, >> Thank you. >> Yep. Um we've revamped reorganized various reporting process to ensure uh efficiency, post compliance, FOIA compliance, etc. Um we've updated train training programs for both officers and dispatchers which are designed to maximize efficiency and effectiveness while ensuring any potential liabilities are reduced. Training is the key for us uh across the board. Um relationships between the PD and other departments are are better than I've ever seen. Uh the fire chief and I talk a lot. We talk often and and we both know

208and the deputy chief here knows what it used to be like uh on the inside and the two departments were not very friendly to toward each other. It is not that way right now. So, we have worked hard as individuals to kind of work better together. And he outlined a couple key calls that just happened as of today um whereas by virtue of how we do business, the police were there first, started stuff. Um the collaboration then ensues immediately after that and lives are saved. This is This is what's happening. He gave you a day. This is a daily thing. So, um we are working together like never before and and the community is reaping the benefits of that. Um We reduced our insurance costs by 6% due to having an active body camera program

209and because we're accredited, the max savings is 7%. Uh the deputy chief went to work on that and and ensured that. Uh we did just get re-accredited for 3 years. That's a ton of work. I was Needless to say, um I had just recently signed my first U visa. If anybody's not familiar to what a U visa is, >> I have a question about the accreditation. It's not a small bill to become accredited. So, what are we gaining from that? >> That's a good question. Uh Bragging rights? I don't know. >> How does that benefit the residents? >> Uh you know, what it what it ensures the the residents of Rio Vista that we're doing everything based on best practice. That's an absolute certainty. So, because we are audited regularly by the accreditation commission, it

210says you must do this this way. We must do it that way. And then we have to provide proofs to the administrator or the accreditation commission that we do it that way. So, what that ensures is that you can trust that what we're doing is based on current best standards, right? And that's That's everything. There's so much like one example is the generator. As as weird as this may sound, every time we go to do a even down to certification to accreditation, the generator is the first thing. We need to have an active generator and we need to have proofs that the self-tests have been performed and that the generator is working. Um but the it goes into literally how we interact with citizens, the training that we receive to react and and handle calls

211involving residents, right? So, it it's literally every single bit of what we do. Prior to us being accredited, we made our own policies and just lived by it. And we can write whatever we want for policies. I mean, with obvious limitations, but this upholds a standard of policing that we must do or we don't get re-accredited. So, uh for us we say that all the time. The individual person, yes, it's just bragging rights, but truly you're getting a a bonafide professional police department. We used to back when we were coming up through through the ranks, we would admire Amherst PD because Amherst PD was like the only PD around here that was accredited. And and everywhere you went you're like, "Well, that's Amherst. They're accredited." Well, we're that. We are that. And we can say

212that we are accredited. Everything we do is checked and rechecked to ensure we're doing it correctly. So. >> So it's not required to be accredited. >> No. >> And is that I think the fire chief was saying something about they were removing their processes to enhance this year. Is that something you considered hiring process? >> No, the accreditation the policy making. >> We do all our own policies anyways, but what we do is our policies have to then conform to their standards, right? We write them and so the way accreditation works is I believe there's maybe 700 criteria that you must meet. Um but we have thousands, right? So at minimum we must meet what accreditation says is these 700 things. But there are so many other things that we have policies and procedures and

213regulations, we have rules and regs, we have all that other stuff. But you know, other things like accreditation the accreditation has very strict standards on how we process property and evidence, right? So and they check it. So we got to have cameras on it. We got to make sure that there's the the access to that property room is limited. So we've seen across the state including our own drug labs stuff happen. Can't happen here. It would be seen. It would be we'd be able to like for example, I'm the chief, I don't have a key to it. And I don't want to. Right? Cuz we have people trained to manage a property room. They're the only ones that have access to it. The system will not allow anybody else into that room. And that's one

214of again, hundreds of criteria that we must stay within, you know, accreditation standards. >> And how sorry, how long have we been accredited for? >> I believe for on six years. Before that we had three years of what was called certification which is sort of your pre-accreditation. I think this is our second re-accreditation that we just achieved. >> Councilor web, I I believe that the accreditation the is the promotional process what the fire chief was talking about that they were going to be doing in-house due to cost. Okay. The police department does the promotional process in-house. >> with no challenge. >> That was a civil service regulation. >> Yeah. >> So, prior we when we were civil service, we had to utilize state HR, right? Now, we can we have local control over But even

215then, we have to conform to accreditation standards. There are certain things and we have to conform to charter standards and all those There's a lot of stuff we have to >> And I do think I remember when we were in the lake pre-certification process that there is something about the accreditation that does like help with our liability. And there's I I it was 5 years ago, but >> And the new post commission requirements that it's allowed. >> Right. So, there's there's like a cost benefit of it to us as well as um Yeah, I mean, I remember like it's true. They They were just writing their own policies and like how they would investigate internally was just like up to a department on their own and this process provide like provides a list and there

216was like a percentage that you had to adhere to like even to get through it. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> I'm digging 5 years back in my brain, but it was a topic of discussion when we were just like trying to get >> But it is cost saving. >> In the end, it was cost saving if I'm remembering correctly. There's like a liability element to it that the city has a much higher liability threshold if we're not accredited. >> It's just it's not something that we experience in that capacity, but what we do experience is a professional police response. That's in all capacities. All capacities, it has to be that way. Um just to carry something I just said, I just signed our first uh U visa. U visa is for um a non-resident uh

217non-citizen, non-registered citizen who has been the victim of domestic violence. And by signing that U visa, that person can be allowed to stay while they figure this stuff out. So, it's a long process. It's sad to say it, I think talking up upwards of a decade it could take for the ultimate process, but um it was interesting to see one of them come through the little city of Greenfield. So, um we merged animal control. This is with with the help of of the mayor and again Sheriff Streeter. Um it made a lot of sense for us to take uh animal control off our books and transfer that to Sheriff's Department. She's got a large uh cadre of employees in in animal control and they do a much better job. They have the facilities, they have

218everything they need, and Leslie Gucci, for those who haven't met her, is absolutely amazing. She does a great job. Um and so far, we just met uh a couple weeks ago. It's a great relationship that we have. So, glad we did that. Um the new locker project is another thing that we check off the list of completed. Um report station areas were freshened up again at at virtually no cost there. Um EV charger, happy to say, has been installed and the new EV truck, which we have labeled our rapid response unit, is is actually working and out out and about. I drove that truck last week and oh M G, that thing is amazing. It's It's something. Um there was a lot of questions when we started talking about an electric vehicle as to whether

219or not it would work for police purposes. Now, we haven't seen it in all seasons yet and we will, but um so far the report from those assigned to it are they never use more than about 20%. So, and with the charger that we have, I I'm not fearing electric vehicles at all. Seems pretty good. So, and my personal opinion is I think we need uh because the infrastructure is very expensive, I think we need a a bit of a mix, right? So, in order for us to to reasonably um operate, we need a good share of hybrids, probably internal combustion, and electric. And I think that would help us get through maintenance issues. Um >> So, rapid response unit, could you explain that? >> So, we have had over the years, hopefully honestly, hopefully

220we don't have to use it often cuz what that means is there's some serious incident taking place. But, we've had things like um >> Microburst, yeah. Thank you. Trying to think it out. Microburst work. Thank you. Trees down, lines down, stumps up, and and we're just it's straight utter chaos throughout the city. Um DPW comes out with tree closures, but we're always out there first. Same thing we're talking about with the you know the fire response thing. We're we're rolling already, right? This truck is being outfitted with things like police tape, stanchions, expandable road closed signs, all of those things to secure scenes, right? So, quickly, so that people can be safe. Um if there are down lines, we don't want you driving down that street. This truck is going to be a rapid deploy

221to that because it's a truck. It's the first truck we've had, and it's got a lot of equipment in the back. More cones than a normal car has. Again, more police tape to tape off streets if we need to. But it we're still building a list of what would make sense in this. Another important part of this rapid response truck is we had a situation sadly a couple years back where a person passed away in the driver's seat of their car on Federal Street. And we don't want people to see that. You don't want to see that, right? So a couple years back through a grant I had written, we bought what we call our scene screens. They're about 8 ft high and 16 ft long and we can configure them in a U or

222we're going to close that truck has these. So when we have, again hopefully never, but if we have a situation like that, we can sort of block that off from from view. We had another situation where a motorcycle accident on the trail basically amputated a leg. And we got to we we can't have motorists looking at that. We ended up having another accident I think during the middle of that because people are too inclined to watch and you just don't want to expose people to that. So this truck will be outfitted with all that stuff to hopefully reduce that kind of stuff. >> So it's basically responding to you know physically dangerous situations. >> It's securing scenes and securing roads. Once Yeah. >> Yeah. It's on the onset of the incident and then we wait

223for DPW or other resources to get there to to make the better plan or immediate plan I guess. >> The way it works is DPW then show up, they'll push our stuff aside and put their stuff up. >> Right. >> And then we can go back and collect our stuff and get back. But we can get there quick and hopefully save somebody. >> Thank you. >> Yep. Um the backup generator failed. We're in the process of replacing it. Joe Pug from Central Maintenance is working hard on that. That was totally that's just horrible. Um, we're happy to say um through a lengthy process we promoted our first female lieutenant. Uh, we're proud of that. She's doing an amazing job actually working on our accreditation right now. So, um, we expanded the co-response program from um,

224originally one to now three full-time clinicians. Uh, for those who haven't heard, there was a threat to funding of that this year. To the extent that it was 16 million down to four. It's back up. So, I believe back to like 70. So, we're not risking >> the state. >> Yep. Yeah, so we're it it's that's looking good. And and honestly, that's that's a program that must continue. >> Yes, it's in the it's in the Senate budget, but it's it still the needs to be voted on. I think the house budget had it much lower and the Senate budget that was just released, um, maybe it was Friday last week. >> Yeah, and then they they cut his funding probably. >> Yeah, so they it still has to be voted on. >> So, we're watching

225it closely. Uh, it's we've seen this from start through its evolutions. And I'm surprised at how it went. I really am. Um, it was accepted quickly. Quickly. And it's amazing how it went from also doing all that and rarely hearing any requests for co-responder to hearing it all day, every day. Officers want co-responders there all the time. And and again, that's their forte. It again and we send all our officers what we call CIT training, which is in this list. It's it's so that they have a somewhat of a better understanding on how to help the clinician, but they're not clinicians. This is 40 hours. It's good. I went to it. We're almost at 100% in sending our officers to the CIT training. But they're not clinicians. And these clinicians are master's degree and sometimes

226I think we had a doctor one of our clinicians. So, uh they're they're very good. They interact with us well. We work with Montague and Deerfield with our three clinicians. But we, Greenfield, offers them a place. So, we their office is in our building. Um we Again, we continue to apply for and receive grants for that co-response. Um we received numerous this last Lastly, we received numerous letters of praise from residents and other agencies who have witnessed our officers' de-escalation skills in use during crisis situations, like I had explained to you earlier. And after that, I just have a list of where I'm hoping we can continue to go. So, that was I I feel pretty good in in a couple years. We've we've accomplished a great deal. We're not done. We're far from done.

227And um with your help, and I say that very earnestly, we can continue to get this to to be what Greenfield is. So, >> Great. >> Actually, we're talking money. >> Yeah. I have uh some questions about salary and wages. Um you the mayor sent the breakdown of employees. And then I cross-referenced it with the um bargaining agreements. So, I have a couple of questions cuz it doesn't seem to add up. Um the police lieutenants, you have Emily Routh Canash and the other lieutenant both at the top step, but they're also making more than what the top step is on the agreement. The top step for the agreement is 110,385, and they're at 111,246. >> Cuz their pay will go up July 1st. >> But that's not in the agreement in the collective bargaining agreement.

228The top step for 20 That's correct. >> Oh, you have you have the top step for FY27, you're saying? It could be it could be a mathematical error. Yeah, I'm not sure why that would be higher than that. >> And then is Emily at being paid at the top step? >> They will be July 1. >> Okay. >> Both of them. Yeah. The supervisor contract just changed quite dramatically this last round where is they'll jump from start they only have three anyways like step 1 2 3 and they step almost that first year. So at the end of the year they were going to go to top step. Yeah. >> Um yeah, so that's a $1,700 discrepancy and then for the sergeants they're all listed at top step and you all have it at 97,757

229and their top step on the contract is 97,178. And that's for all six positions. >> Again, same rules apply for them. They'll all be at top step. >> Okay, this is the this is the I >> No, no, that's fine. So you're saying the contract says what? >> The contract says 97,178. >> And what do I have in ours? >> 97,757. >> Yeah. >> I'll take a look at that and see. And the same for the patrol top step officers. It's at 77,812 and it should be 77,812. >> Sorry, go on again with that one. >> The police patrol officer top step in the mayor's budget is 78,411 and on the master copy unit view whichever one it is it's um 77,812. >> Yeah, we'll have to take a look at that. >> And the

230patrol step officer first step forward um actually lower. They're at 69,902 on the mayor's, but their contract is 71,448. >> I'll take a look at that. I'm sure there was some reason. I I have a the math. >> Yeah, I think this is a time math error. >> What's that? >> at like a time >> What's time math? >> Like some when the contract did the math when the con- collective bargaining did the math, they did it at like X amount of days or X amount of weeks, and when we did it for the budget >> It's >> That could be Yeah, the 4. or the Yeah, 52 weeks 52. >> because I did the same with fire and his came right at budget with what was in line on the bargaining agreements. >> I

231think what she's saying is probably correct. I put like a a 0.3 or 0.4 after, I think, which could have made that discrepancy. So, I'll have to take a look at that. >> So, yeah, we could get a corrected version. >> That's a lot of money to be >> We can put this at the beginning of this meeting's agenda so we can just make sure it gets addressed. crazy >> Yeah. >> Can I ask a question on salary? >> Okay, any other questions on this budget? Let's see. Went through the pop screens. >> I have a question on the expenses. >> You have 6,000 for building maintenance. Should that not be in central maintenance? >> So, yeah. Um we had talked about that. I think Joe is ready to do that. So, um that's a

232conversation the mayor and I can have. Um it makes sense to me. >> Yeah. >> It's something I've been talking about with him for a while. >> And also on your open finance Joe, you're at $1,000 for building maintenance supplies, so I mean >> So, that that makes all the sense in the world to me. It's actually a request I made the mayor and Joe and I have been talking about. So, that's that's fine. >> Okay. Um we discussed schooling, academy, training, physicals. If we're not hiring new staff, do we need to keep those line items? >> Yes. The reason for that is is that's also what we take our sign-on bonus out. So, if we hire new staff, which we there's not a hiring freeze. There was a spending freeze. That was part I

233think that was part of your question. There's not a hiring Um we're dropping an FTE. But we've never been given an order that we can't hire. So, hires hirees can come in in two different methods. And so, my math when I requested a sign-on bonus to be put out because we're not getting any applicants. >> Can Sorry, can I ask a question about that? Are we uh So, the hiring bonus isn't contractual. >> No, it's we advertise a hiring bonus on our police app thing. >> But we were told recently that there So, when this came in, it was because we were having trouble hiring. But we were told just recently that we're not having trouble hiring. >> We're having a lot of trouble hiring. >> Also, it was more economical because of the cost.

234I believe that's It was the cost. Sending to the the academy if you it was better if you could get somebody that was already academy trained and not have to. >> So, the way I had presented originally, I've been asking for this for about a decade. I think it was going all the way back to like Mayor Martin was why are we not pushing for a sign-on bonus? Because a $10,000 sign-on bonus is is a fraction of the cost that it costs us to hire somebody, get all their gear, put them through a 6-month academy. Like I said, that's 6 months of full-time pay and benefits for someone you don't get any use out of until they're done. And then you got to put them through a 3-month field training program. So, the sign-on bonus

235comes from people that we don't have to send to an academy. So, we hire them and we can use them as cops, right? So, we're not spending 6 months salary on an officer. So, >> And when do they receive the sign-on bonus? >> In three phases. So, they'll get 2,500 upon being hired because we're not going to give it all because they could turn around and leave in 5 minutes. When they successfully complete their training, so when we sort of toggle them onto solo patrol status, they get the second disbursement of 25. And at the conclusion of a year, they get the balance. So, it's not We don't just give them a check for 10,000 coming. >> Is there a criterion in terms of how many years of experience you would require in someone you

236would bring in? >> No, it's all as it is is someone that we don't have to lose all that academy time and expense. >> So, they've been through the academy, but they haven't necessarily have any experience being a officer somewhere? >> It's They would I mean, I haven't run into that yet. I mean, there's a chance, but again, what we're saving is the 6-month academy salary and benefits, for sure. So, a $10,000 is is again only a fraction of what the city would pay to send someone to that academy. So, if they didn't, I'd be more than happy to still accept that. We'll give them then If the academy thing's done, that's 6 months loss, then we we we would with our open arms take that candidate, give them a field training program, and start

237them because we're still saving a ton of money that because they've already gone through the academy. >> And is that one career incentive? What line item is that? >> So, that's getting back to what we were asking about. The question was about academy tuition. >> academy. >> Right. So, the number I came up with wasn't completely arbitrary. Um we had asked X in previous budgets, and so I was able to use those lines to pay the sign-on bonus. So, I didn't ask for any more money. I was going to use the academy and physical money towards the sign-on bonus, which is what we've done. That's exactly right. Yep. >> Um >> So, >> I anticipate right now I'm confident enough to say that we will need to hire at least two, at least two, coming

238into fiscal year '27. We're down two right now. We're not filling one, and we have um I have it on pretty good authority that we have a retiree just about ready to collect here pretty soon. So, and again, we can't predict the future beyond that, but there's at least two. >> Do we have any other departments that have sign-on bonuses that high? >> No, we don't, but we don't have anybody else that requires the training. I mean, that was more of a financial position. >> With a with a training that is comparable in cost. >> The cost of going to the academy training and Council Williams, to answer your question, I'm sure that we haven't got anybody that finished their academy training and came immediately to Greenfield. They usually have had their um academy training

239worked somewhere. They have been through that, and then they come to us. So, they come with both that and a little experience. >> Well, well, but the concern you outlined happens quite frequently, believe it or not. Municipalities will send individuals to the academy. They get done with the academy, and they leave for the state police academy. I know that yeah. Know that happened to Amherst a few times. It hurts. It hurts. It hurts. Cuz now you're a year out. So. >> I'm surprised. >> It's hard to It's hard to regulate it. >> I'm very surprised that there isn't some kind of an agreement. So, just briefly, I worked for the Mass Nurses. And there was a training program to be an OR nurse. It cost $100,000 to create an OR nurse that level of training.

240But they had to sign an agreement that I wrote that basically said, you know, that, you know, this is what happened, but they'd have to promise like 3 years to the to that hospital because that investment was made. >> You had them. We had them, but they never held any weight. We couldn't enforce them. >> That's true. >> So, they died over the years. >> Yeah. Um I have some specific more specific line item questions. Sorry, it's better than mine. Um communications, you're using 15,000, but on your um open finance, you're only at 6,000 for the year so far. >> It's easy. Excuse me. The tuition? >> Yeah. >> The communications on the >> Um right now >> Is that you guys >> Now we're at communications, now we're at 9,000. So, what you have

241is not quite updated. >> I did this over the weekend, so. >> Yeah. So, they were updated just recently. >> Okay. The CJIS system is at UA $840. You can increase it by 5,000. >> She just took because it hasn't been paid yet. >> Okay. >> Right? So, she just they bill us that'll be coming and that just went up. So, that's why I asked for more. We have no control over that. That is literally the very That's the federal system that we use to access records. They all records, everything. So. >> Office supplies you spent money to dispatch. Now, you're getting 5,000. And last I checked on open finance here, 2,000. Can you say more how the dispatch is getting some and then you're getting the same amount? Or I guess you're getting a

242little bit less, but what does that cover for? You all the >> Right now, so the way we've had to do things is there's some things that are in the red. There's a a bunch of things that were in the red that we've had to spread out money. Like, for example, repairs and maintenance computers were $3,500 over. And that's because we send money and buy stuff for dispatch. >> Yeah. >> So, that's why. So, we broke it down. I can't give you an exact right now. This is There's some forecasting going on. What I do know is we've spent almost every penny of our office supplies money, but we're in the red in several different categories. Um like, for example, office supplies right now, we're over by $465. Um we're over in postage. We're over

243in repair and maintenance computers by $3,500. Um repair and maintenance police station, we're over by $1,600. So, those are the things where when we look deeper into what was spent, that's why they need to have their own expenses. >> Yeah. >> And then that will keep us in the black on the areas that we need to stay in the black. There's a lot of money that goes into running these places. So, it's it it stinks, but prices are exorbitant behind right now on everything you try to buy. Everything's three times what it was a year ago. So, in in an attempt to to mitigate that, I had to ask for more. Things are going to be more expensive. Do I hope at the end that those costs can be returned? Sure. But, what we have

244done, and I know since taking over as chief of us, we've come in under budget every year. We're not going to We're not going to just throw money at that. I can tell you right now. We have what we call the goalie. Financial goalie. And and we're very We're very strict about it. You know, when it came down to We received a letter of a spending freeze, I stopped our um pest control, our water, our It's We're We're going to play ball. >> You have a pest problem? >> And then we had to buy a bunch of ants. >> No, no, no. >> Oh, yes, there was. >> All over all over the city. >> Yeah. >> We made do. >> You have rats, too, did you? >> have any rats. >> Okay. As long

245as you don't have rats. >> We had a problem in the Sally Port. >> Ants are terrible. Yeah. You do have rats. >> In the Sally Port we had rats. >> Oh, just there. >> Yeah, but we had ants inside and the rats are kind of >> We had little boxes out there, too. They're very cute. >> Oh, listen. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um we're on hour four. So, I'm going to just Is there any more questions or expense? >> Can you say more about policing accessories? >> Policing accessories for us, and I explained this to the mayor, that's sort of our our last catch-all of expenses to run the police department. That's not said in in a very specific line item, right? So, stuff that we've spent money on for police accessories was

246um a part for a car that was over budget dramatically on car repair. That's why that went up so high. Um the reason why we're so over budget on cruiser repairs is because our cars the vast majority of our cars are out of warranty. That's why we're trying to update and make a new fleet here. We want to get to a point where we're operating with cars that are still covered with warranty cuz we're getting eaten alive with maintenance costs because they're not on warranty. So we've had to take from that um I mean but community events is is a big draw for that. Um when we do like the trunk or treat um we have bought a lot of like sensory type toys for neurodivergent groups that come up and and come to these

247events. Um so that is stuff like I said we're enhancing the community impact unit. We spend money to do that, right? We then go down with again to get stuff from from Bicycle Bob. We then buy additional stuff that our teams go out and hand out. So um but it's everything. Policing accessories is everything. If an officer had um something break on while they're out on patrol, we replace that. So um that's gone for uh a new printer. It's gone for maybe a a breathalyzer or portable breathalyzer. So anything to do with policing doesn't fall under a specific line item, that's sort of where we live in the police accessories category. >> And the 24,000 is a large line item to be unrestricted with that. >> So what we paid for additionally was we have

248various software that we have to pay for. Police accessories and we have we don't have any control over the prices of that. So one of them is our scheduling software. Scheduling software is about seven going up to 8,000, I think. We also have another policy software that's going to be $12,000. So those are good chunks that come out of that as well. >> That doesn't come out of your dues and membership? >> That was other stuff. We do pay other stuff out of that, too, yes. >> So, I think for there's two things here. One is I I agree with Councillor Webb, that's a significant um that's a significant line item. I'm we're like, you know, we've heard we've heard a lot from the public on the grant position. That's like half of the salary

249of that position. Um for what I would request for best practices is that we do have line items that are like really adequately uh naming what things are. So, if like if you have software, computer software, IT needs, that sort of thing, that should have a line line item, especially if they're significant. Like if you're spending $15,000 on on software. Um and similarly, I know you said that there was a line item for me for is it the repair Oh, vehicle repair and maintenance? So, >> There's also a line item for vehicle accessories, which is separate from police accessories. >> Could I just brief May I just briefly go over the repairs? >> Yeah. Um that um all through with every year year that they're in, but that one particular line item is over in

250every budget. It was fired by our DPW. Um policing ex- um policing accessories, also each um police officer I found this interesting cuz I went up to say thank you to the new police officers the other night. Each one of them goes in with them their own medical bag that they bring into the Each one of them has in their vehicles oxygen, etc. All those things are not Some of it is reusable, has to be refilled, but we'll try to give you more specifics on that later. >> And respectfully, Mayor, like that makes complete sense that where we've like we're over in all the departments for vehicle repairs. I think the difference here is that other departments don't have an extra line item that's like a catch-all. What we've been told in other departments is

251that like we'll have a financial order that comes forward if we go beyond in vehicle repairs or we go beyond in software and computers and things like that. And in this specific instance where there is pressure on us from the public to address some of the cuts that have happened in other areas, um it's hard to justify when like a line item is not very specifically designated for something that already has another line item. Um Okay, sorry. I interrupted you. I was going to ask >> No, and then the last questions I had are um meetings and seminars and dues and memberships are 30,000, which I think is more than all other departments combined. Is any Is all of that 100% necessary spending? >> Uh well, we're $13,000 over budget on it. >> But is

252it >> Right now. Is it necessary? >> Um I don't >> Ooh, I'm looking at right now what it was. So Yes. So it's it's memberships and >> It's two separate line items. Meetings and seminars Dues and memberships is totally But >> Yeah. >> That's 30,000 and I haven't seen any other department in the city get 30,000 for those. >> Yeah, that's So we ended up having to pay So what we did with meeting seminars is we paid for all of our interviews. So, both promotional and new hire interviews. We um we have individuals >> you pay for the interview? >> We So, what we we have to pay for all the material to set up the interviews. And then what we do is we actually get like coffee and donuts. It's not a lot

253of money, but we do that for the individuals who are volunteering to sit on our panels. You'll see they're small like uh see, Christmas party. We spent We had a Christmas party um where we brought our retirees back. There's conferences like Judy has to go to conferences or like for the Mass Municipal Association type stuff. You got to pay to go to them. So, memberships like that come up. um >> So, also um you know, I kind of watch both departments one alongside the other. If you look at the training and training over time, they don't have another whole education line in there. There's no backup revolving for any of these and I do actually watch to see where everybody is on their expenses through the year. um and they're right in line with where

254they are. I couldn't tell you all of this from now, but I know I look and I know you have like 30 people that you want to be going to have the extra educational meetings, etc. etc. You don't see any the training in there. So, I can get you a better break breakdown of how we have the land council board. >> I mean, I'm looking I pulled out from the open finance. We're paying We paid We paid $912 to the Fraternal Order of the Police. um $35 to the National Tactical Officers Association. $100 to the International Correspond. $239 to the County of Plymouth was called a membership. And then you have your MA Police Chiefs >> Mass Police Chiefs >> Chief, this one is the one we buy cruisers from. So we have to be

255part of that association in order to get the deal on that we buy. That's a That comes I had to I actually I asked cuz I just questioned that too like what is this thing? I mean no, but in order for us to be a part of the the state bid which saves us a ton of money and that's out your your vendors, we have to pay that. That's part of that Plymouth down And the rest of them like Board of Fire Overseers, so that's for Jeff Bankston. So we have to pay his license. Um FOP, yes, that's the Fraternal Order of Police, that's our association fees that that's not waveable. Like the fire chief said, uh the deputy chief and I are both part of IACP, which is the International Association of Chiefs of

256Police. Uh it it deserves mentioning that um when they did their annual training, which I I would say is invaluable. When they did it in Boston, we went. This year was in um Colorado, we didn't go. Right? And we also had additional Chiefs training um out east that we didn't go. It's a tight fiscal, we didn't go. So um could we? That's part of our membership. Um but it would have cost money. So we made the decision we're not spending that money right now. So um the next one is in Orlando. And and again it's great when I went to when we went to Boston there are police departments from everywhere nationally. They show up in full regalia from every country in the world. It's an amazing place to go. It's an amazing thing to

257see and and discuss policing with these individuals. And it's sort of there's more training than you can possibly attend. So it's sort of ala carte and you go to the stuff that's sort of most most attractive to you. And then of course the vendor shows, which are >> But are you paying dues on top of membership dues? >> Uh yes. Yeah. >> Okay. And you're I'm seeing 13,000 for the MA Coalition of Police Departments. I mean, 22,000 for memberships is a lot of money is what I'm saying. And I would just want to know that it's benefiting the residents as well as the >> Part of that, so $3,000 is actually what's called First Arriving. First Arriving is a software program that we pay out of that. PowerDMS, if you look in there again, that's

258a policy compliance software. So, I mean, right there there's $7,000. That's not really a good use. >> need a software like >> No, of course. I just Yeah, but if >> We Yes, but it's just >> Maryanne's actually doing a good job calling Max back in. Thank you. That was a rogue. >> I I will I will sit here and say with you that some of them are ridiculous like the the $1,500 for dues and memberships. It's >> Yeah. >> It's It's crazy, but like the fire chief and deputy chief said, there are so many things that we have access to because we maintain those memberships. We get a lot of potential training that we can send our officers to that we can get it at no cost because we pay these dues. So, and

259again, there are other factors to consider that obviously we we are trying to maintain the best standards right now, right? So, best practices. Um but I think that pales in comparison to what things we get at no cost for being part of these. I I complain about it every time we get a bill. I'm like, "You get another bill for a membership?" It It is sort of ridiculous, especially when it comes out at $1,500. Um and that's the mass chief. That's not even the IACP. >> It is I will say as like uh as a veteran now being Councilor Bottomly at this point, are the old-timers. Um One of the things we don't want, um that we've had in the past, is a department that's very insular and that doesn't um take part in best

260practices or trainings or, you know, any type of um I don't know, it's 10:00 at night, but any uh you know, any type of external uh validation of the work that they're doing and how they're doing that work. And so um The thing that's very No, totally. The thing that's very hard to figure out though is that some years ago there was a talk of like doing an audit and a study similar to how like I mean, the fire department has a 20-year-old one. Like, ideally we would update that, but we don't have $100,000 to do a updated study for police and fire to say like, what is the proper level of staffing, what is the actual level of training that we need to be like in a like providing the best level of public

261safety to the city in our current budget constraints. We could pay someone $100,000 to do that study for us. And what we we didn't do that 2 years ago. And so >> Steven Steven can attest that I we've asked it Munis isn't the finest thing to work with. And literally labeling is miserable, right? So, we've we've asked and and I would love to break this down more. I can't even I can't change what that's at all. I can't change it at all. So, we have asked and in fact, we almost overlooked the substation lease because as was last year was embedded in prisoner meals. I I can't change that, right? >> Yes, you're having allowances under magazine subscription. >> So, I would I would love to go into police accessories and break it down into

262more specifically what those are because some of them are are um services that we're paying, contract services. It's not quite a dues or membership, but we have to pay it every year and I would love to break it down and be more clear as to what it is. Like what I can tell you is it's required or we wouldn't be paying for it. It would go down. So, um we've cut out some services just simply because they cost money, one of which was flat. You know, that was going to be a $12,000 expense. I paid for it. So, we had to get rid of that. So, I think we've been being very cautious with with the taxpayers' money. Um doing as much as humanly possible not just waste money and spend money. Um we looked

263at it. We spent a lot of time looking at it and obviously we had to take the things that were currently sitting in on the radar and be like, "Well, we got to add to that." I I I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of why our cruiser maintenance is so high and a lot of it, like I said, I can't reiterate that more is we're out of warranty and we really need to get newer cars so that we when they break down, I'm going to give them to Ford, you fix it, right? So, most of our cars don't qualify for that anymore. So. >> Sorry, because it's >> No worries. I'm happy to check. Happy to answer. >> I wanted to say too, I think that's really what this interchange is really

264good and it's really helpful that there's the occasional someone going to go into the weeds and dig and you're answering the questions without being defensive and answering all the questions and that's the way that's the way it should be and it it gives us faith in the the answers we're getting. >> Yes. >> I would say if you want to hang out with your chief pal and and his um organization for how he did his budget breakdown, it was amazing. So. >> do that now. >> Yeah, sorry. He gets you got the A on presentation so far. Sorry, department head over here. He's really happy. Look at how happy he is. >> I got outshined. Thanks, guys. >> If I can't say there was one item you brought up about Plymouth County, every department uh

265that purchase vehicles has used the police department account now. So, it's not just police department in that particular small item. So. >> Thank you. I'm just like how do we get that deal? Like how do we be the Plymouth County of where we have a revenue line that comes in? >> I don't I don't know. >> Like how they get that? I mean, could you if they're if they're doing the line items for like buying vehicles, like what can Info Group do? >> Yeah, we need a new number. I don't know. A whole new >> I think what they do is they took point in being sort of on um What's the name of that? Com- Combies? Kind of thing. >> Oh, yeah. So, it's like gives you buying power. >> Exactly. So, we just

266deferred to that. Like you do it, you maintain it, and then we can access Combies to buy cars, right? So, what we usually do is there's only like two vendors primarily that we use in Mass. One's MHQ, it's now McGovern bought McGovern buying everything. So, they bought MHQ, and that's where we've been buying our cars from. >> And so, they're vetted through the state. Like Combies anything that's pre-vetted through the state, you can just go into Combies and like you don't have to put out an RFP and go through the whole thing. >> Saves our accounting department from having to deal with any of that stuff for $279 or so. >> It saves a tremendous amount of money. >> Yeah. Okay, any final questions for this evening? >> Thank you all so much. >> I

267do. Yeah, I want to thank you all for this. It was very helpful. And I think we that you you were here for the longest night, I hope, of of budget season, other than when we get to council. >> Any time you need that updated sheet, just let me know. >> Cool. Thank you so much, Jared. >> It's regular, I think it's monitored. >> You guys can't leave yet, sorry. You can leave. These guys can't leave yet. Um so, our next meeting will be Tuesday, May 19th, 2026 at 6:00 p.m. That meeting is at City Hall meeting room, second floor. Or on Zoom. Um for the public to know, in that meeting, we will be establishing a revolving fund for the health department, board of health. We will be discussing um the community preservation budget

268topics and the school budget operating budget for 2027. Uh so, also a big meeting, but hopefully not as big as this one. Um and I would take a motion to adjourn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Uh all in favor? >> Aye. >> Yay, we're done. We did it. Perfect. >> All right. I don't want to be I didn't even really