001recording to order this session school committee budget and I'm present >> present. So, we have three things on our agenda for today. Uh, we're taking care of some minutes. We are going to take a look at the annual budget development calendar and uh see about revising anything that needs revising. Uh, and we'll need to come back to that with updated dates uh for the upcoming year. and then talking about rubrics for uh budget develop budget document improvement. Uh so uh before we do any of that we have public comment. Uh I don't I see anyone anyone would like to make a public comment. All right moving on. Uh so we have minutes from our three previous meetings for approval. So I will take a motion to approve the minutes. I move to approve the minutes
002from the December 9th 24 meeting, the January 8th 25 meeting, and the February 3rd 25 meeting. Sir discussion. Any comments, discussion, anything? Okay. Uh, so I will call that to a vote. I I don't think we need to do roll call because none of us are on Zoom. Okay, thank you. So, all in favor say I. >> I moving item two. Uh, so I put in the materials a copy of past year's budget development calendar. Uh hopefully everyone has had a chance to uh look it over and uh I want to just discuss it because uh we'll need to create a updated one to bring to the full committee for our September meeting and I just wanted to give some time to make any potential revisions and things like that to it. Uh so I
003will just open the floor for discussion about that. Um, so I don't know it's helpful, but I can just kind of go over some >> I guess couple days ago. Okay. So, um the first page just starts with some um relevant pictures of our students because we want to center them um in all discussions about the budget. Um and uh superintendent, it would be great if we could have some updated pictures that are approved for public use and for this year's calendar. >> How will we do that? There are certainly pictures out and about online, but we want to make sure that we're using pictures that we actually have permission to use. So, that would be very helpful. And then on the second page is a year overview calendar that just has um dates highlighted
004in different colors to correspond with the different uh kind of entities that touch the budget development. So orange is for actions by the school committee, blue is administration, school administration. Yellow is uh from the city and purple is from the state. And then that's laid out by months um going from it went from September to um this coming in August and kind of overlapping into the next fiscal year just to give a picture of how this rolls over. Uh so go into details about that because you've already read it. And then the last page is some FAQ. Um and uh the first part is about what the school community's budget uh planning policy is. So there's a copy of that up here and um then uh answers to questions about how uh people can have
005input into the budget development process at the various stages. that it includes links um here and um not just for the school committee but also for uh folks to contact uh folks at the state level who have an impact in the city level. So uh that's that that's kind of the super brief nutshell. So >> just go this is a working session. >> I want to >> um so anywhere in this process I guess because I was looking for it is like a conversation about what the actual numbers will look like. Is there a time that we can do that? you had put a folder in with our materials about like well there was Welssley all the different budgets um that were out there and I spent a lot of time looking at all of
006the different formats >> and then I I went to look at some of smaller districts because we are a small district and like so my printer was kind of giving me a hard time. So, I looked at Long Meadows um because it really spoke to me as not only an educator but a taxpayer that it was very simple and very easy to understand. And I think one of the concerns is transparency around the budget. And so we want to present something that is easy and it tells the story of what's in each school. So where in this calendar are can we do that or can we do that now? >> So part of what you're saying is the next item which would be the rubrics for the annual budget document. But but as far as
007you know the way it plugs into the calendar um I do see what you're saying about a time when the subcommittee discusses the actual numbers before they reach the other committees. Well, it's not even the numbers, but the format of the numbers because it's the format that is confusing or it was confusing even for me like like let me just give you an example. So, >> and I know it's being done because of the state. So, this isn't that this is about you do something for the state but we also need to do something for our taxpayers. So, like the they call in long meta they call it the control master is what we do. This is what we do. But underneath this for the taxpayers, it shows really nicely like one page all the
008budget. >> That's the budget document. So that really >> Yeah, I think that is a a great topic to bring up when we're talking about um how to revise the annual budget document. >> Okay. >> Um because that's that's what's here in February. uh when the superintendent's proposed budget is published and then we have our annual budget hearing and um that document is what's presented uh to the public and also um that's once the committee approves it then um that proposed budget goes off to the mayor's office. So um so I think um that is the substance of item the next item on our agenda. Okay. Um so this item is just about the annual calendar for budget development. So um what we have here are a couple of different things that are accounted for
009in the budget development calendar. Um mostly it's about the operating budget. There's a little bit about capital. So um you can see here in September u the city finance director releases forms and a calendar to departments for capital improvement. uh we in October as a committee uh will confirm capital improvement requests. Um so anytime you see CIP gets mentioned once more in your March um when the capital improvement plan is due from the mayor to the city council um where capital is mentioned but most of this is about operating and um there are just like two things that I think I'd like to see on the calendar that aren't here yet. Uh, one of them would be pre-publishing the budget. I think linking up with the city ways and means just so that they know
010what's coming and we have heads up if they're disasters that were financially heading towards. I'd like to get linking up with them a little bit more codified. And then the other thing, and this was something that occurred to me, so if it's something that no one does anywhere and is a terrible idea, shoot it down. I won't be offended. Um, we never really do like a post-mortem afteraction report of the previous budget to see how close we were to hitting it. And I think having that information would be valuable when building a new budget, if that makes sense. And it would also be helpful for answering questions from just general Greenfield public who want to know what's going on with this item, that item. 12. Are >> you talking the historical trends? Because the line
011items do show four years plus of historical line. >> Yes. I'm talking less historical than that, more of just the previous year in the greater detail. Um because I think it would be helpful for us to be able to have a clear, concise, focused narrative because I know that the spreadsheets, they have all of the information on them, but a lot of people will pick up the spreadsheet, get completely overwhelmed, and then come to us with the questions. >> So, um let's do that one. Talk about that first and then the um pre-publishing that you mentioned. So, uh, what you're suggesting is like a a I like the phrase that you used, focused narrative. So, um, like a specific narrative document that we would be asking a business manager to produce that explains how closely
012the previous year's budget worked out as planned. >> Yes, it could just be focusing on where we were above and where we were below. Um something that is coming to mind uh Andy got so many emails from me about transportation looking this year that year why these numbers were so different and there were the easy answers but I think it might be good to have a unified meeting so we've got this unified set of minutes or if people have questions they know this is when they'll get their answers so that it's not just a scattershot of emails as the subject occurs if that makes sense but I do think it's more work and not work. >> It's good. It's good. The school committee. >> Yeah. So, I think what you're asking for is a line
013that usually would be that Andy would have your history there of the last four and then budget to actual. Unless maybe that's what you're asking. I'm not sure. >> Well, but with the explanations behind. So, it's not just here's what we budgeted, here's what we spent, and here's why. The here's why column is the question that I get asked the most. So right now this last set of warrants. So every every school spent six times the amount that was budgeted or six or four times the amount in supply money except for Newton which spent under what was budgeted supply money. And I want to know why as a as a taxpayer and as somebody who is on school committee but there's also another issue. School committee has budget fiscal policies and one of the policies
014is at the end of the school year financially if there is remaining money in the school budget it is supposed to be returned to the city every department in Greenfield it's in our policy we have not done that so it's a bone of contention with the city and it's something we need to be open about I mean if we need that money for some purpose and and good reasoning has been given. But then if you're holding on to that money and then the city says we can't come up with this amount of money, we look bad because that money is still in our budget. >> Does that make sense what I'm saying? >> Yeah. So you So you don't keep a rainy day account. >> There's a lot of rainy day accounts. Well, you just
015said we don't though. >> We're not supposed to. >> Okay. >> By our our policy, we have a budget policy. I think it's DBF that basically says if we have remaining money at the end of the year, we're supposed to turn it back to the city and that policy has not been followed. >> So, go ahead. >> I'm not opposed to talking about that, but I feel like it's getting a little bit beyond the scope of development. >> Okay. Um like that's a bigger issue that I think is a full committee issue. >> Okay. >> For discussion. Um and I want my main objective right now is to um put decide what if any revisions should be made just to the calendar and then we will come back um in a month and um make
016sure that it is all um good all set uh to bring forward to the committee. just to approve the calendar um in September. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. So, um, so I So, Ann, are you suggesting that we have a specific budget and finance meeting as as a postmortem or are would you think that should be more of a full committee agenda item? I think I would say a subcommittee item just in the interest of time and not getting bogged down with other things. >> So we could potentially add a date where there's expected to be we could add that to July 26. >> Okay. >> Since there's already a TBD budget and finance meeting um with this on it just redeveloping the annual budget develop development account. So that could be an expected
017agenda item for budget and finance in July. >> The the challenge being that we have summer pays and summer encumbrances that will end up you know we have that postmortem in July >> might be too soon. >> It might be too soon like so August late August. So the August one would be better. Good point. >> Yeah, because this is a public focused document for the public. I've been trying to think, okay, what are the questions I get asked the most and are they relevant to this? Because the other thing that I get asked about, I'm sure everyone has been, is about warrants, but I don't know how warrants would fit in the scope of the annual budget development. >> Well, Stacy had a good point. She said that um Moniku has like a subcommittee
018that just deals with warrants. I don't know if like a subcommittee from a subcommittee like that people go through the warrants. So, um maybe we need to look at what other school committees are doing who have warrants. So, >> because energy saving. >> We did do that. We had a discussion about warrants that last year. I have a whole folder in here that I can share with you. >> Yes. Um December 9th meeting will have a summary of it. >> Yeah. And Jeff, >> so we did examine there are all whole bunch of different ways that different committees handle warrants. Um and so um I did a whole bunch of research looking at how other committees do things and sort of looking at um what the prevailing approach is and things like that and we
019um the committee did decide to continue approving warrants the way that we are currently doing it. So, it's not so much the approval of warrants that I'm talking about as people get all sorts of ideas about what's in the warrants and what isn't in the warrants. And so, I I've had people who have watched the full committee meeting and they'll just hear warrants mentioned and it's sort of hard to answer those questions for people who don't have the folder of warrants right in front of them. Sorry, I'm trying to think of a way to make the warrant information accessible and transparent to the general public if that makes sense. But I mean, Andy's great with responding to our individual questions. >> I just I understand you're saying, but I'm just wondering that's more operational. This
020is budget development. >> Yeah. Just >> I'm just thinking in terms of public facing element of it, but yeah, I guess it is too far of a stretch. I'm not sure how that would get worked into the budget development calendar. >> I the this calendar is about the development of the annual operating budget and um just documenting when we um approve capital requests. So >> yeah, >> warrants I think should be discussed as a separate issue. It's a good calendar. >> Um calendar I lost. Okay. >> What we can do for the next painting if these days are it's kind of overlaid on just this year's >> Yes. >> dates, right? >> Yes. Yeah. We have not plugged in any new dates for the upcoming year. So, um, >> well, I mean, we generally held
021to this calendar pretty well this past year, so I'd say it works. >> So, in September, we anticipate that the school committee will approve the new annual budget calendar. uh have a discussion about so last year we had a discussion about community budget planning involvement and um the subcommittee worked out its its own approach to doing that which was to conduct outreach to PTO's the GHS school council and the CPAC and the LPAC um which I don't think we need to decide right now, but um I think we should plan to um have a discussion about that in September, which means it would be great if the subcommittee could have its suggestion for that before then. Uh so we can pin that for our next meeting. And the idea behind that is to align with
022our our budget development policy which is um it's specifies that we have that kind of community engagement. So there's that. And in September, the committee would also discuss um anticipated improvement requests. So, um the committee would receive information from the superintendent at that point in time about uh what is um probable >> street elevator the >> whatever fire that kind of project >> whatever is upcoming because then those uh the committee needs to come back to it and approve the capital improvement request in October. Yeah. >> So, we would have that discussion in September. Um, >> but if it's an emergency, a phone call to the mayor and it goes, she'll take it >> and she'll >> to capital planning right away. >> Like a fire panel, we're not playing. >> Um, elevators were not
023playing, >> right? >> But our elevators always break. They just do. So, I'm thinking last year we had budget and finance discuss the development of um our budget policy implementation. I'm talking about that outreach there. Yeah. >> Um in September after the September school committee meeting, but I'm kind of thinking maybe we should do that in August instead and that might consolidate meetings. How you feel about Well, my only thought there thinking about the way that it plays out because the way that we did it last year, we reached out to the PTO presidents to get on their meeting agendas. >> Um, is that August might be too early for that because the PTO's >> they won't have their first meeting until September. >> That's true. Um, I suppose in August we could plan. Okay.
024Yeah. What do we want to try to do here? >> So in August, we could actually communicate with principles to get it in their newsletters. >> True. >> That in the September at their September meeting or something like that. >> I mean, >> if you want to advertise it earlier, I think that's a good thing. >> Okay. >> Well, the thing is we can't say we'll be there for their September meetings because they set their September meetings, not us, >> right? Or when can we come? I think it's more to consolidate meetings. In August, we'll decide, okay, I will be the one emailing this, this, and this PTO to ask, you know, September, October, November, which meeting we slot into best. And >> yeah, I think November is like the the sweet spot >> because
025that's when um department heads are putting together what their requests will be to the executive leadership team. And um I think that's the ideal time for them to be hearing from their parents. And >> there's a group though that we didn't hear from that in the history of Greenfield always was heard from. And I know um Superintendent Pat said in her history, no, but before her history, we the school committee used to meet with principles. Each principal used to come into a room with school committee members and say this is what I need. This is what I would really want. Like if if I wanted a um a second guidance counselor, but I knew we couldn't afford it. All of that was presented to the school committee members making the budget so that they knew
026upfront where principles, you know, this is what we're being told. this is our bottom line, this is our basic, but they also got to hear um the other pieces. So they actually knew like um give you an example like so if a position was cut at Newton because another school needed something that was more critical so that they knew those committee members knew about those swaps that were happening in the district. I mean Amy Petty sat through those meetings. Um so she's the last one I couldn't think of I like sat with. >> So what you're asking for somewhere on here is say subcommittee or full committee meets with principal. >> No subcommittee. >> So sub one or two it was one or two school committee members. It wasn't the whole >> So just looking
027at how that relates to the calendar. Um around December, the executive leadership team discusses budget requests with department headsets. I'm assuming that's not going to change. >> So in other words, there's not our committee. It's a different subcommittee that's meeting. >> Well, it's not a subcommittee. The executive leadership team is the superintendent, the assistant superintendent, the business. I and I understand what Mel's saying, but I've never seen principles my time go to the school committee. I don't want to say that it's a waste of your time. I'm not trying to imply that, but that's operational for any says. And >> and as we collectively come forward with a budget to you, right? Um if we're short or something like that and the district believes, hey, we really need that counselor, but we can't afford it,
028then we may ask you for that. >> Yeah. But I kind of see the principles went to you. >> They present >> presented. You know what I'm saying? Presented to you almost kind of like saying, "Well, what I don't agree with what the superintendent is presenting, so I'm pitching my own thing right now." >> No, it wasn't like that. >> Okay, that's what >> I know. I know exactly what you're saying, but it wasn't like that. It was a case of there was a sense that no because we would have never done that. But it was more of a case of the committee would get one number and needed the details of why this was being asked for. The superintendent maybe had some of the information, but the information was more real coming from a
029principal. like I need a bus monitor because I have this happening. So, it was more those kind of conversations. It was not trying to push for something that >> for their individual school. I'm thinking districtwide, right? When we present to you >> Exactly. >> We're taking into account everybody's needs. Yes. Somebody may feel sad that they're losing like teacher counselor, bus monitor, >> but overall we have to do what's right for the district. So we present that final one >> and if they're advocating for each other at that after that point >> now we're >> so back >> this person >> this is touching on a more like existential question about the role of school so and it's one of the trickiest sort of things to figure out I think um on the ground when
030school committees are doing their thing um because the committee is not supposed to be involved in day-to-day operations. Uh the committee is supposed to be operating at a level of governance. That's the bird's eye view. Um and if the if committee the committee is getting involved in the um school administration's deliberations um with their principles, their department heads, things like that. that's it's definitely operational um I think as opposed to governance. So um I mean a member could float to the whole committee a suggestion about by requesting agenda item through the chair um about whether uh you know for example a committee member or subcommittee member should be appointed to attend the executive leader leadership team meetings with department heads like that, but um I don't think I don't know that we could do that
031here. We have in the past though I can think of one instance in particular where uh Dr. barge presented a budget that ultimately the budget finance subcommittee voted in was the uh elementary school music position that they directed administration to put in that music position. So there is that give and take. I think I would you know along with what like Roland is saying is like that you know and it's I'm going to say in that sense it worked as far as I'm going on my strict interpretation of you know the program base management of building administrator brings their budget to the superintendent superintendent reviews has the discussion as we have and then we bring it forward to the subcommittee. subcommittee has the discussion and subcommittee brings it forward to the full committee and we
032have in the past at the subcommittee you know I think of that in particular where subcommittee directed the superintendent we'd like you you know we are telling you in a sense to add that elementary school music position we actually had one discussion one time about not being able to do strings for kids and then it was ultimately told >> to uh reinstate the budget for the strengths for kids so you know I think I say process works. I think if anything hearing what it is that the subcom is talking about is it just ensuring that whenever there is a discussion at the administrative executive team level that member Goodwin is saying that if by chance and you know so we're not going to have a fourth grade teacher that that is brought forward so that
033the committee is made aware that this was a decision that was made so that there is a reduction of a teacher because that position is being traded off or something else. >> It's the communication of that that's really important. It's a small town. >> so I guess what I'm saying is I think we can get to >> to where I'm Yes, >> I agree. >> through the I would agree if we were going to cut anything I think we would see it. I would assume that it would come to >> we just presented when I just came from Mson. We had many cuts and similarly what you mentioned they mentioned no we really want to keep the arts and music program right so that's a priority right so you you send that to I hear
034that >> I get it okay that's a priority y okay we see what we can do around that right then we present to you >> we collapse some classes there I can show you we we just laid out here's what we saved right we cut a teacher and when I say cut some of it was with um retirements things like that but you know what I mean right the teacher Okay, this we save $65,000 here. We're cutting this, you know, that type of stuff. So, you'll you'll get that. I would assume to say that the likelihood to that that would be basic cuts. The school committee um did create a way of approaching this from a governance standpoint um last year by establishing uh committee approved budget priorities >> um in a one-page document that
035for the superintendent to then use in um hashing out those finite details. Um and that's in here. So, in December at the December school committee meeting, the full committee would be discussing budget priorities. The subcommittee would be um providing information to the full committee based on our outreach um efforts and what we've heard from people. And of course, the committee hears directly from constituents as well. Um, and then the Okay, I was just checking to see if we had a second date for that. It's just that one. So, in December, the committee um would discuss and approve budget priorities to direct the superintendent to um structure the budget in certain in certain ways. But I don't know if that's is that specific enough to address what you're saying. I think when I just think there's
036so been so many things that have come up that we didn't know about. And that's that's the the key is good communication. not to be hit on the street by some parent who says there's 26 kids in a kindergarten class. I mean, not to know what is going on um so that we can talk to that and support what's going on um instead of saying, you know, just call the superintendent which is what we all have done. Um so I think trying to effectively know um when staffing because staffing is hard in Greenfield. We're always looking for people. We never have enough people. It's hard. And so our our parents get stuck um trying to deal with something and they don't know who to talk to. And they usually do come to school committee members
037and we're directed not to have a conversation and tell them to talk to the superintendent. But that makes those people mad because they're, you know, getting to information. Um, you know, just to even know that they're they're working on it, you know, um, is sort of a good thing to say. Um, and I was always like texting Darren, you know, this is happening or whatever. Um, but I think staffing is hard. Um, and especially when you have to hire 19 people in the summer and you can't find 19 people in the summer. We even had open positions all year long. Um, and so I think the communication around that is is big and I don't know if that should just become a agenda item maybe on the subcommittee staffing updates for budget and finance because
038I mean that really does impact our budget. Um >> I think that might be a full committee monthly rather than subcommittee update. >> Whichever >> is the part of superintendent's report. >> It's like where are we? Like I recruited a math teacher yesterday in 99 restaurant. >> I am always trying to recruit. He told me he was a math major working on his masters and I said you didn't think about teaching. I was really like in the restaurant doing that. So, >> so I'm wondering, so we have this TPD budget and finance meeting that's in here in January. Um, and it has two main purposes. One is to receive an update about the budget development from the superintendent. >> Okay. So, I'm wondering if we can work your suggestion into that agenda item where um
039the superintendent provides more of a detailed breakdown of um the requests that you've received and how those how you've worked those out with your principles and department heads. I mean we have heard >> um those kind of details before but if it were more codified in the agenda >> then um maybe that >> would help >> because then then we'd be getting we would be getting our community input based on this subcommittee's outreach um and we would be also getting information from staff while still sticking to the committ policy um which is that staff do not communicate directly with the school committee. They communicate through the superintendent. So we can ask the superintendent to provide a more detailed breakdown of what staff are asking for >> at that January uh yeah at the January meeting
040and it would be the end of January because the second item there is a discussion of the governor's budget which doesn't get released until >> Okay, let me Just get that. So to recap the things that we're suggesting um we're suggesting moving the developing the implementation of the uh the community budget planning involvement from September to August. August also doing a little bit of the afteraction for why there were places with the previous year's budget where they were lower or higher and also codifying as agenda item for the January budget and finance meeting having the superintendent give a an update from what the building heads from that meeting in December were asking for. Are those the changes that we've proposed so far? >> Okay. I didn't miss any. >> It's perfect. Okay. Okay. >> So,
041are we talking this August as well? Like, will we >> Yes. >> Okay. >> We'll do that. I mean, if everybody agrees, we'll do that this year even though it's not on the calendar. >> Um, but then it will be on the calendar for the following year so that these things are being built in as like annual recurring. We're refining the subcommittee's approach, you know, as we go on. >> Andy, is that something that's possible to do by August? >> As far as the >> looking at the budget like in talking about the postmort Yeah, the postmortem >> it' be late August, you know, because the last of the payrolls, >> I mean, we have the Okay. It's just a matter of sometimes the the things that flush out um both salary and nonoperating. Um
042you know, we might end up doing an encumbrance for $10,000 and it only came in at nine grand. So, >> okay. >> Was that flushing it out? I mean, >> is that too tight of a timeline? because really I just think we need to I'm just trying to make sure we do our meeting and have this our final final proposed calendar ready to go sometime before the September school committee and in time for it to be included in the materials. So we could put that >> I guess as far as I'm sort of seeing this postmortem somewhat I don't think that should hold up budget count. I think that that postmortem is informational so that we can show you things. I mean, it was one of the things where, you know, I do it as
043a matter of routine anyways where I'm running and looking and seeing just like never was saying and I looked at back historically the vacancy savings that this district has had based on the in addition to them not being able to find people but the number of comingings and goings that have occurred during >> um has been I mean it's been bad since postco COVID for everywhere, but for some reason it seems to be much more uh active here where I think last year when last time when I checked it was like there was $300,000 in vacancy savings in FY24. I mean that's that's a lot, you know. And in FY25 when I checked it, you know, I want to say it was April, we were at $500,000 the vacancy savings. I mean, so that's that's
044a huge problem that you know. >> So do you see that in the other districts? >> Yep. >> Not to the level, but absolutely. It's a thing where and again that's why school committes administrations are are offered that flexibility to you know do with those vacancy savings use I mean one of the examples we have a vacancy savings because we couldn't find whether the OTP speech you know psychologist then Mr. messing ends up contracting out. >> So, so we'll end up showing it will show the vacancy savings in that line, but then his contracted services line might be over, but you know, that's the the trade savings in your sublines. >> Correct. Right. >> Correct. >> So, long answer. It might be I think it's doable whether or not it'll be tied up neatly as
045far as, you know, finishing up on at 525. um you know maybe September would be even early September. Uh it's more just I want to say give the time because we have to do our final reconciliation with the town so that I can start doing reporting to the state. Um but I don't think that that should hold up the budget calendar discussion. >> I just don't have two weeks. So >> I mean unless if we do it in August I just going to say I would not want to you know I say it's going to be one of those close enough for government type of things because of the fact that you know we'll have there's a possibility depending on when this meeting is is held that there will still be a crude payroll that
046hasn't necessarily been charged because the last of the summer pays will be the last week in August. So August would be a broadstrokes overview as opposed to the finite it is over. This is concrete. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Well, you know what? If it something gets bumped from one one, you know, box to the next on here in practice, I think that's okay because the goal of this calendar is to like give people an idea of how things play out, you know? So it doesn't need to be 100% on point. Uh okay. All right. So October the committee is approving capital improvement like I said receiving an update on enrollment. um asking the full committee to approve our final plan for outreach. >> But if we're talking about our plan in August, then
047we can ask them to approve in September. And that way, if one of the PTO's can't do November, but has an early October PTO meeting, it would work. >> Yeah. So, I would say bump the approved DVD implementation to uh September. Okay. Since we're kicking the development to August. >> Yes, that makes sense. And I that's great that we can move it up. I think it was just like slightly delayed last year because this was all inventing the wheel, you know. >> Okay. November um is when we were aiming to do all that outreach last year. Um and and so that's what's on here for committee actions. At that point in time, the superintendent is calling for requests from department heads. Um okay. And then December, the committee decides uh and approves budget priorities. Um
048whilst the uh executive leadership team is discussing budget requests with their department heads, we already said we're going to include a specific more specific breakdown of that in the superintendent's update to this subcommittee in January. Um for the budget development update, we're going to talk about the governor's budget in this subcommittee at that time. And then February the committee receives the superintendent's presentation of the proposed budget which we are going to talk about next. Um, okay. Okay. I think we need to revise that slightly there. In February, I think we actually need to put this item, the discussion of any feedback about the FY27. out budget development within the subcommittee up to the January meeting. >> So it's the discussion of feedback on the budget proposal. So would that mean we would receive the budget
049proposal in January also? No, I we can't ask the superintendent to essentially publish the budget before the B budget gets published. That's what we can do is ask the superintendent to provide um what they're anticipating >> in the budget and make suggestions. Um that being said, this subcommittee can make suggestions, but we can't make decisions for the full committee, you know. So it's uh advisory capacity and then the full committee needs to make decisions about what to approve. >> So I guess it's as written it's discussion of feedback on the budget proposal. Doesn't say who the feedback is from but because it follows the item about the school committee receiving the presentation of the proposed budget >> and just with the passive voice there it's tripping me up of whose feedback. Yeah, when I read
050when I read that it was bringing the feedback from all those committees to that meeting like the PTO's and I mean I read it that way. So I just >> yeah that it wasn't worded very well because >> so I don't know if >> by that point we've already done that in December. >> Okay. of just reading it as presented. It looks like school committee receives the presentation probably discusses it and then the TBD would be budget and finance discussing the feedback from that school committee meeting to figure out okay what kind of adjustments need to be done. That is my reading of it as presented. My only hesitation with that is the this subcommittee can't decide on what adjustments should be made because that's a full committee decision. >> Just feedback then just feedback.
051>> So it's not need to talk about it but >> non voting. Okay. I'm gonna reward that one. So it's not more. Okay. All right. So that will stay but it needs better wording to touch the screen. Okay. Yay. Technology. I learned that from a child. >> Um still there. Okay, >> we need to get a mouse jiggler out. >> Okay, so that'll stay there. It'll just get rewarded better. >> Um, >> okay. >> Sounds good. >> Then there's the annual uh budget hearing. Then um the school committee approval of the budget, a backup date. The reason there's a backup date is because the committee has to approve the budget for closed budget by a certain date in order to meet the city charter deadlines. um by when for when we have to provide this
052has to be provided to the mayor's office in order for the mayor to be able to provide >> uh her proposed budget by a certain date and what have you. So um just in case something were to happen and scuttle that planned meeting um for huge blizzard >> we would have a backup rate. Do you in that March one just generally obviously you're the second Wednesday right of the month didn't know if you moved your regular school committee meeting to the first on that to tie together no stand alone >> okay and then the school committee uh doesn't really have budgeted actions in the next couple of months because at that from that point it goes into other people's hands you know um the mayor of the city council and then stuff happens at the
053state level and that's all that is laid out in here so that people can see what's happening over there but um we that's not do and then um and then in June I mean this got put in here but we get budget updates every month anyway and Maybe we should take that out because >> that's the regular meeting. >> It's part of the regular meeting to have a budget update generally speaking and what we were already discussing in terms of a budget update above a >> well the budget updates you get monthly are for the current year. I think I'm reading this >> budget updates regarding the proposed >> correct. So I think that's in there because uh the committee may need to discuss >> any subtractions or additions. >> Yes. >> But I think
054that's based on full committee rather than subcommittee. >> It's under Yeah. >> Yeah. So uh depending on what shakes out on the city side and from the state then we may need to make adjustments and at that point in the year that is why we would make cuts. >> So I guess that will stay. >> I mean this is a good calendar in the sense that you're ahead of the ball game and and I saw you say in June there, right? Well, I'll tell you some bigger cities. >> Oh, they're not doing their final approval until June. >> Correct. Literally mid June is when they're voting on their budgets. >> South didn't want to have a town meeting on Mother's Day years to fight for our budget. >> As a principal, I had to fight.
055>> Yeah. >> Police cruiser versus reading teacher. We got both. But >> yeah, >> it was a good fight. >> So those two are just going to stay there. Only it's going to say budget update and approve any necessary amendment. Okay. And then and then we're back to now. So we would be discussing the revising of the next annual budget calendar and off we go. Um all right, cool. Any final thoughts on what's here? >> Looks good. Okay. So, the only thing that really then needs to um be done in terms of footwork is getting dates certain things. So, that means >> we'll do that. >> Okay. >> You know, I'll overlay the calendar basically and follow this template here. >> Okay. >> Because what I probably would guess that this might have been done
056from Becky or somebody like that. >> I do. Oh, you did the whole Oh, I didn't know you were giving it to us to >> I'm sure Becky has much better technological skills because it involves a lot of a little bit of putting that together using word because I don't >> Yes. So if you just look at the school calendar, >> so the only thing we don't have on that calendar, but we did do last year was the February meeting um calling, you know, and inviting the ways and means uh chair to the meeting and the city council vice president. And is that something that we want to do annually? having that meeting where we invite them and have that collaboration. And if we want to do that annually, is that something we want on
057the budget calendar or just more of a standing? Yeah, we know it's going to happen. We just don't know when yet. >> I had thought of Sorry, go ahead. I think was that just it was put on the calendar because I felt like it was put on the calendar because we were struggling. But why not just wait and see? I mean, >> well, can't you add to the >> generally for more collaboration and to be on the same page sooner trying to head off uh conflict and misunderstandings. So my thought on that is um twofold. One, we did do that um and it was at the request of the chair and so at the chair's request I reached out to city council president and and worked that up that we would do that. And um
058I think that um that was like one of several different ways I think that the committee has made efforts at that kind of increased >> collaboration or communication and I don't feel that it worked very well frankly um like I don't know that that had any positive impact whatsoever on how things played out. >> We leave it in the air and call an audible closer to time. >> Yeah. And also I think the full committee as kind of um this is something that the full committee is sort of talking about grappling with trying you know will be deciding how to deal with but >> but we don't need it on this document. >> Gotcha. I'm not sure that the full committee would decide that we should do that every so >> okay I think we're
059going to do such a good job we're not we're going to have so much money that we're not really talking about print it somewhere right >> you guys will send all our requests about pirate >> all right so any other um revisions that you think need to go into this >> I think it's beautiful I love the color coding really do. >> All right. And then um and then there's just the last page which is the FAQ. >> Yeah, that boiler plate FAQ doesn't change. >> I think we should leave the copy of the budget development policy in there because it's just a pain in the butt for people to have to go >> and click through everything, >> navigate to the policy manual, >> look through the thing to find the right answer. I
060think we should just keep that copy in there. Uh but it does link directly to the policy manual if people really want to dig into the fiscal management section, you know. >> Yeah, the FAQ is fine because I have not had other questions on the budget calendar development timeline asked me that are not answered there. >> That are not answered there. Okay. All right. Um so this part is good as is then. >> Y >> All right. Cool. Um, we're not voting on anything today because we're just going to um >> refresh, >> revise this and come back and give it our >> got our tweets. We'll update the numbers for the pictures and >> so um I just have one question in terms of followup from this. Um, I'm happy to do it in
061terms of actually um making the new document with dates supplied from the superintendent and what have you, but I'm not going to. My term ends in December. So, I'm just wondering if someone else would like to try their hand at doing that. >> It's not me because I will not >> passing it on. Yeah, I think either of us would be happy more >> I'm more techy so I could do it. >> I think techie is definitely a good quality to have when >> mess up the case >> revising >> pretty. >> Okay, I will send you the original. I apologize that it is a word doc. >> Okay, >> that is fine. a terrible way of bringing a time with so many different programs that >> okay I'm sure you will do it much
062better and with less frustration >> okay cool all right any further discussion about that >> all right cool so next and last thing is a review and discussion of rubrics for annual budget documents >> this is >> okay >> so I just want to give the little preamble and and we can dive in. Um so we have discussed the committee at large has discussed quite a bit the need to improve the um annual budget information that is present. Well, we need to improve our our budget information generally, but specifically the annual um budget proposal that's provided. Um and we did briefly discussed um coming back to this at our last meeting because I had attended a workshop through MASC um about the ASBO meritorious budget award and so I wanted to talk about that and
063then um that's not necessarily the only rubric you could go by um either. So, uh, I thought we should just talk about what all the potential options are and, um, yeah, that's that's the gist. Okay. So, so I want to thank you, you know, just for sending all that. It was good reading all the different models. Um, so you know, and I just kept going with that and looking at different things. And so I tried to send it to you, but my printer and Long Meadows site. Um, so I looked at a Long Meadow one because it was more our size because a lot of the ones that seem to win awards had really large districts. Um, which meant they probably had one person who was just probably devoted to that because they had the
064money to do that. And because we're small and so and I kind of like Long Meadows because it's sort of the top part is what we currently do which they can talk can call the control master and then underneath is the detail and I think we have the detail but we've never added it to our budget. So, it actually lists each school. Like it doesn't put a teacher's name, but it actually says like I'm just going to pass this around so you can see it. If you look at one school, you'll see you really know when you read that what it costs like for the electricity or the heat. Um, and I think as a taxpayer, I mean, we all know, um, Greenfield is the third highest in the great state of Massachusetts tax- wise.
065people really kind of want to know that you know even the schools are suffering from eversource bills and um you know the phone bill in one of those schools is really high. So you know as a taxpayer you know or even as a school committee member I would asking why is the telephone bill so big in this one school? I mean you kind of see all of it. Um and I think we have that we've just never we've sort of presented to the top part which is called the control master. Um, so this is an old Long Meadow one that just really kind of gave the detail which I think we want to look at. Even as a school committee member, I'd like to see that detail. I mean, we're facing some hard decisions with
066declining enrollments and um underperforming and trying to get our schools performing and trying to bring parents back. Um, and so it's it's a time to ask and look at these things. I think the detail there as a taxpayer makes me happy. Um, I know, you know, that, you know, when I pay my taxes, more than half of it goes to the schools. So, and it's August 1st. I'm going to go write a huge check and it makes me happy, but I also need to know that that money is being used, you know, so that format made me happy as a reader and it just um >> Can I Sure. Can I ask so that I understand um because to me this looks a lot like what we already see. The front half does >> the
067front half does but we don't get the detail of the >> so is it this like high school teacher English teacher math teacher music that you that you >> and Andy produces a a format that is by the state where it's all clumped together and that pulls it apart. So it's all clumped together in that first part that Long Meadow has, which is probably what they sent to the state. >> Well, any >> So I think it's the detail we're always missing. So, you know, I wanted to know how many first grade teachers we we had. Um, and I couldn't figure that out. Um, so because it was just all clumped together. >> Well, I think the clumping is There there's the question of audience of who is this for? Because if you were doing
068a budget just for me, you would put it in Excel and I would be happy as a clam. Whereas other people um definitely if they just see a spreadsheet there, they don't want and they need that narrative. Like I think that the cover sheets that we've been getting for our monthly meetings have been really helpful uh just you know in terms of presentation and it's like on one hand you don't want to be too redundant but on the other hand in some places redundancy really can clarify like if we we if you go through the budget you can count up and figure out the FTEES but something I get asked getting the FTE from a building by building basis just >> that's okay So, we're used to looking at that. >> So, I I actually
069showed that to somebody who has nothing to do with the schools and I said, "Do can you understand this?" I was like, "I'm kind of that." I think that's what we need sort of in Greenfield is people are asking to be able to know. >> I'm sorry. I am the angry taxpayer. I want to know what I'm paying for. Um, there's been a lot of stuff go that has gone on in Greenfield. We've done a lot of construction. We have a lot of bills, but we want to know what we're paying for. There is a group that is all about transparency, and I'm I'm with them because it feels like we just get more taxes and, you know, the number one thing I want my tax money to pay for is go to schools. And
070I think that's true for a lot of taxpayers. So, transparency, and to me, that gave transparency. You know, I've never seen like the heating bills and the water bills and the and I think that's sort of it shows like how many teachers are getting longevity in each school. So, you kind of know like, well, there's older teachers here that have been here for a while. I mean, if we saw that all of our schools don't have longevity because nobody's staying. I mean, it gives you some going back >> detail the heat and stuff like that that and the electric that Yeah. that because we we can tell people that yes, we have older buildings and older buildings have high maintenance, >> but if we have something hard to point to, they might accept it more.
071>> That specific example though, those are all paid by the city. They're in the city, >> right? >> So, I we don't present that, >> but we could get that. >> Uh when what they provide to me isn't broken out by school. >> Okay, we can ask for that. I mean, that's just one example, but it's I always say it's taxpayer friendly or >> Well, I know because one of the things that kind of bit us this last year was uh the way that over in the superintendent's office, various people were lumped together as central services when really it was just because of their office location being there, which made it look like we had this massive office of paper pushers when these people had the office there but were actually this school this school
072this school never >> Right. I know what you're saying. >> Yeah. >> They're probably district-wide personnel. >> Exactly. That that keeps being I mean it's been remodeled in our budget so many different times. Like >> one year all the district-wide people included all the nurses and all the ELLL teachers. It it and then they got think of them then. >> Right. That's what you're saying, right? >> It then it it shifted into a different model. So, it's been really kind of a confusing as somebody who reads budgets. >> Um >> well, and then when you change the model from one year to the next, it means the spreadsheet won't read cleanly. And >> so, I did go back historically. We consolidated the instruction and instructional lines. Yeah. >> I went back through and moved them
073all >> into one. So that comparative data was there and able to be done. >> Okay. >> so like all the ELLL teachers and the special I got put back in. >> Well, ELLL was its own cost center anyway. So that was >> we just left that as >> you know because we had I mean if you remember like I'm thinking specifically there was a math and science academy. So they got moved to the middle school. >> So we moved that just consolidated those into because we get cited every year from auditors about our chart of accounts not being aligned with the state. So >> that was our attempt. So if you remember when I did that workshop for the full school committee on a budget development I walked through and talked about the fact
074that we have to consolidate these lines. So which is what we did >> right? But the state isn't our taxpayers, which is and I totally agree. I know you have to do that for the state, but then there it's almost like you have different audiences. I mean, because at this point, I don't the state is like, how do I say it? Um, shoving local control down our throats. Um, and I think what you do for the state, you have to do for the state. But we also need to consider the fact that the taxpayers are a little tired of paying the taxes they're paying. I mean because it may get down to the point where you know if we had to go out and get a vote to for the school budget taxpayers right now.
075I mean just the fact that our water bills went up and our sewer bills went up has caused um and that again the state says we have to do that because of an audit. That's, you know, >> I think it's a I don't know. It's a little hard to have a crystal ball about how things would play out in a referendum. My personal thought is that the school budget would pass hands down in a referendum in Greenfield every time because Greenfield supports education and we have a monument to that in our public library. So, um I I sort of don't these spreadsheets could be laid out however like I don't have a >> personally I don't have a horse in that race sort of I don't care. Um my what I would like to see
076is something that's more accessible than spread sheet um information and um that goes to um like Wley had a good beginning but then it went to spreadsheets. >> Well, I mean you have to have spreadsheets. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist or we shouldn't present them. I just >> I know back before I was on this committee um I had some friends and the way that I would help them with it is I would just use either Microsoft Word or Excel and take the raw data to make it into a pie chart. I mean and that was all it took for because there are some people they'll see the numbers their eyes would glaze over but if it's in a more graphic representation I don't get it. >> Well it kind of goes to the
077um the MBA rubric. So wrong. >> Okay. So I'm not saying that we have to do this. I just want to look at the rubric for the >> the ASBO which is association of school business officials for folks who don't know me budget. >> Okay. Um this they this lays out a whole um organized set of criteria by which a school can improve their budget. Go ahead. um and it's spelled out in this nice um kind of delineated checklist. And um the reason that I included the sample budget books and things like that that were included or because those are ones that have won this award, >> right? >> So, and there it's not easy to do this. This would this would be say the committee decided it wanted to chase after this award which
078I think would be lovely because that would probably be confidence inspiring um in our budget um this would be a multi-year project to achieve >> but any attempt you make to um hit some of these >> categories >> yes I think would produce a substantive improvement and one of the I think one of the main ideas um in the MBA is that you present information in multiple ways because people perceive and understand information in multiple ways. Um it's not wholly unlike differentiating instruction in the classroom, right? So, um I would like to see things that are laid out. Um Andy sent this, this is self Hadley. um they include a lot of graphics where um you if you if this looks overwhelming to you on a whole page, you can look at this and a
079lot of people will go aha okay now I am seeing exactly how much of the school budget is going into administration and it's this little sliver and then this is how much is going into instruction and that's what where I want my dollars to go, right? That's what most people would probably say. Um, and uh, they could probably clarify student services, I think, because not everyone knows what that means. Um, but I just >> Yes, that's a student massage room service, >> right? >> So, I just think it's helpful to provide a multi- um, sort of format >> presentation of information, if that makes sense. >> I agree. It is technically redundant, but it's redundant in a way that makes it accessible to multiple audiences. Because I know the city council, some members on it,
080they complain year after year about our budget book. I think we might need to just point blank ask, okay, what are you not seeing that you need to see? >> I think we've done that and haven't really gotten a clear answer. I think when someone is confused, sometimes they don't really know what it is that they're looking for. They just know what's in front of them isn't working for them. Oh, don't worry. Um, so I kind of want to All right. How would you summarize the ideas we just talked about? We're looking at the format design of our budget. >> Yeah, we're talking about two different things. One of them is how line items are laid out in the overall summary spreadsheet. >> I think what Mel was asking for was a deeper breakdown. >>
081Correct. um the content. >> So Mel was asking for uh more trees while you were asking for the forest >> with pictures. >> Can you just do everything I need? >> How's your magic wand working these days? >> Sorry. >> Okay. Uh so we're doing a lot of talking but we are not the people who create these documents and I really want to know um because we can't give orders that can't be followed. That's madness. >> Share what you did >> maybe. >> Yeah it was it wasn't as it was small town so about half the size. >> Okay. So it's not like you're being told to kids in that sense but similar had calendars and we met throughout the the winter. I was just I would say just January to June there and did
082it was more more spreadsheet type based in that scenario. But we did lay things out like you saying like okay we're cutting this teacher like I think >> okay >> add right minus this minus that or >> okay you want us to >> paid more attention to the music program okay >> give and take there that so it was it was more mathematical >> okay >> I would say they were dealing with smaller numbers >> so you just don't want to >> and we did we did do the charts when I say charts not sorry not not a pie chart um more charts for each individual school. So that would lay out okay here's how many with attendance in there too. So okay um you know Corey Hill has you know this grade this grade
083this grade here we go and there's three first grades here's the average size is 21 or something like that. Okay, if you want us if we have to go down to two >> right now instead of like three at 60 or 63 now you're going to have two jokingly at 30 which you almost can't have right at 31. So we >> like that that's focused okay who is being served >> so I really like that. Yeah. >> And that helped us decide on other things like school choice as well too. Who to accept for when I say not not the individuals, I'm sorry, not who to accept, but how many to offer, how many seats to offer >> for school choice, which um we just had some applica an application. I was looking at our
084school choice seats here >> is it's very limiting. >> Wow. It's kind of crazy that our enrollment is down and yet we're very limited on these choice seats available. >> Very I I'm going to I propose with Becky put that on our next meeting for August to discuss with you if I could have some leeway into >> seeing if there are spots in accepting others because you are already an accepting committee and city. So we we can make tweaks to where if we have seats as well too, but literally I think eight spot eight spots, nine spots is >> which doesn't make sense if we're constantly talking about our enrollment being down. >> Yeah. And I don't know the background. So I'm going to do that. I that just hit my desk literally Thursday. I'm
085thinking wait a minute we can't we only take in this many but we send out this many and if we want to draw in from other places >> and you know I would imagine at times we have seats >> an excellent idea for the August. So I did pencil that in on the agenda >> for the whole sorry for the sorry money. >> so so I apologize one more time. We will get you that because that I I wouldn't see that as kind of standard. Okay. >> You know we are small enough with our schools to show you >> here's what we got to have for teachers. Here's our breakdown at this school and here's what our enrollment looks like. Right? It's always I guess but you're pretty good when you get to the upper
086grade. Well, after kindergarten I say you're pretty good. Kindergarten you don't know who's going to walk in the door. I'm sure we'll get a handful through the next month of August as well too. But after that you kind of know who's going and who's coming and the registar here for the town census that type of scenario >> even start doing that for enrollment projections for kindergarten as well. I think in the past we've typically had an enrollment update in October from superintendent >> and that's when the state so it would be after >> yeah we'll give you that but this would be when you're prepping the budget to say >> okay we expect >> we had three teachers last year in this grade in first grade but the numbers are down so we're going to
087drop to two but that group of three is going to grow up to the next grade we're going to have to move that teacher up there that >> used to do multi Right. >> Because of the numbers. So like you might have a two, three or one, two based on >> odd numbers. >> Yeah. >> All right. So my question is if there is this deeper breakdown on a spreadsheet document like this, does that necessitate creating two different documents in order to have one that aligns with state requirements? the one that is >> providing it. >> It seems like there are two different ends. One ends wants to be very deep in the weeds, but then the other like you'll hear people in town say that they want the school budget to focus on the
088kids and not administration this that. And if you were to page through the long budget and add up numbers, you'll see how much is actually going to the kids and to people who are directly in contact with them. But a lot of the time people they don't have enough time to go through the whole thing. And so if we had, you know, just a shorter thing we could point directly to like that pie chart, I think that could be helpful. But it's, you know, it's two different ends. And well, I think the detail is what creates the overarching, >> you know. I mean, it's just um I mean, that is something I even thought about, you know, it's the detail participles live at. I mean, and that's sort of the piece of it. I mean,
089I don't know. I mean it >> so >> you have to have the pieces to get the the total one. >> So consider because we do not deal with the state auditors or any of that stuff. I my question is for the business manager >> personnel is something that's different because that's you know as far as sort of what I have to report to the state I actually don't report personnel that is through uh the power school registar you know or maybe even know the sepeki or other stuff but everything is export like from unice I can export it all into excel manipulated. So, you know, to do summary like taking that line item budget that we have, you know, that you know, it is broken out by cost. So, you know, I know it's
090a lot of numbers there, but you can actually what what is our green what has been historically spent at Greenfield Middle School? It is presented there. What is historically spent at each of the schools is presented there. Districtwide presented there. Transportation is presented there. So, the cost center detail is there. then just summarize it to some whether or not you know do we have a discussion or do you let us take a stab at it to see you know is this level of summary I've seen log meadows you know we long meadow is not different than what it is obviously that we do do >> right >> you know the FTEES as far as personnel goes this was admittedly you know Karen embedded those in her powerpoint so we have that information you know so
091it's a matter of you know I mean I even offered on you know that the Excel spreadsheet that said I can add an FTE column there and we just put an FTE there and stuff like that and she wanted to do it through the PowerPoint. It still gave the same information because then it we also have the cost associated on each of those PowerPoint slides. So is it there? Then as far as putting together a document, you know, it it could get too busy, but there's nothing saying that we can't have a separate sheet to say that there are 12 regular ed teachers at Newton school and then another sheet of that breakdown of each of the schools to say three of them are first graders, you know, so on so forth. >> I wasn't
092sure if that was one of yours when I downloaded it, >> but I mean, >> yeah. >> So removable, I guess, is what I'm saying. It's just a matter of the we we get into I want to say the how I don't think we and I'm just speaking for me from doing it from other ways like are we going to end up you know analyzing this and and you know well I want to present it this way I want to present that and then we're we're going to lose sight of what it is that we're trying to do you know so it's like we could end up debating this to death as to what what is it that we feel Joe and Jane Q public out there is going to be happy with as we
093learned from last sometimes it's nobody's ever going to be happy with how it is when we've answered so many questions and it's still nobody was happy you know so it's like one of those things where when is that we're going to do the from the school community point of view the line in the sand as far as where we're comfortable we feel that the information that we are presenting Joe and Jane public out there can feel comfortable and understand. I mean, speaking of Rome, but >> we'd be more than willing to sit down. We've done it with city councilors in the past where, you know, want to talk, let's talk about, you know, when the mayor was running for I sat down with her and Christine, you know, said, "Look, we'll go through line. I
094can tell you what it is that we pump codes and so on and so forth." So, the manipulating of the data is not a challenge. It's just a matter of I don't want to say over manipulating but it's like when does it get to a point where we are comfortable with what it is that we're presenting and or going forward with. So then we can fine-tune that information you know to make it even >> well maybe it's not even a budget need or it might be a website need. I mean because one of the things that isn't on our website and part of it is because our staff changes so much like I can remember having four third grade teachers in one year. Okay. And that it doesn't have like by school like you know
095there's five first grade teachers. There's no description of what's in the school. I mean, part of what I'm saying is there's just this bottom line number out there and nobody can put like how many first grade teachers, how many second grade teachers, what are we talking about? It's just it comes out as and that's why I liked Long Meadows because it really does. I mean, people think, oh, it's the schools, but the schools have rising heat costs. The schools have rising telephone costs. I mean, it really kind of to me was like, yes, my bills are going up and so are, you know, when I read it, I'm like, yeah, that, you know, just make it as simple as possible. >> So, I guess so, we've we've we've received it. We know how many teachers
096there are at different levels that was given to us. we've heard about um class sizes and how they would be affected by having you know different numbers of staff and >> like we receive that information and what the I think most people don't watch committee meetings they have time >> so website maybe >> I I am all for creating a budget website um but I don't want to fight this feels like already a lot to show it's just improving the annual budget >> so I kind of want I'm sorry. I don't I don't at all want to shut down a discussion about creating like a new web page. >> No, I'm just No, I'm not even thinking of a new web page. I'm just thinking of putting it on our the Greenfield Public Schools K12,
097>> you know? I mean, I it's not there. >> So, I think what I'm hearing is we already have a lot of the details. We just need a secondary document that is more visually accessible. Is that what I'm hearing? Well, not just more visually accessible, but yes, I think that is a cheap point. >> Yeah. I mean, like, you know, to manipulate the information is is not No, it's it's doable. >> So, okay. So, we basically talked about two main things. um providing deeper spreadsheet breakdown and providing multi-format information specifically in visuals. >> Perfect. >> I think those are two good goals. Um and I think we should definitely talk more in detail about that, but I want to wrap up for today because it's almost noon. Um and I think we should have some
098time to kind of percolate on that. Uh what I would like to ask folks to do is to um before we meet the next time sit with this while >> um and consider the what's laid out here because this would be I think we would be talking about creating more of a budget book. um as an annual budget document. And that's >> a bigger year than >> Yeah. >> And I like the way that this rubric lays things out because it has the same um the same breakdown um that you can see is used in the examples. um that are in the folder for what an executive summary would look like, what an organizational section would look like, what the financial section look like, etc., etc. Um and but that's a lot of time and
099um I think that >> it's also a heavy lift to put on an interim. It's well, we're not in an ideal position, frankly, to be um developing >> developing a budget book. Yes. Because uh because >> we have an interim superintendent who is wonderful, but will just be with us here. And also um the committee had attempted to um attract a staff business manager and wasn't able to do that. Um I think that the um public statements and vitriol um that occurred in various um meetings over the course of this spring certainly contributed to having multiple applicants withdraw. um nobody wants to stake their career on that and uh we need to do a much better job as a community. I'm not you know I'm not self-laming about that but uh I think I would
100just implore everyone to please um do their level best to elevate uh their discussions about the school budget so that we can uh be successful and things like that. So, so right. So, it's not an ideal situation to be trying to do. >> It's partially related to that. Something that I would hope for our August meeting as part of the subcommittee report um that we could ask them that if there's information that they are looking to see in the budget to send an email so we have that for our next discussion about it. >> Yeah. >> So that it's not just five people what we think people want. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> I think that's an send an email so we can do this rather than open session discussion on it before we have recommendations.
101as well or >> just to be clear about the we can ask for this in terms of the school committee agenda so that people can discuss their suggestions in open meeting >> but the other members of the school committee can't be discussing by email this topic. >> Oh, I wasn't saying discussing. I was more of saying like um say someone really wanted a pie chart of you know admin teachers they'd send an email saying hey this is what I'm looking for. Would that count as discussing if it's literally just giving one piece of information with no response? >> I mean I do not enforce opening law. It's not my job but I think it does. So >> it would be getting a suggestion over email. I don't know >> but that's the purpose of having
102>> it's a phone call to find out >> the agenda materials you know in advance of meetings because the expectation is that committee members are going to come prepared with what they want to say. >> Okay. Um, and we >> it's sometimes the agenda comes out so close to meeting time that it's hard to >> That's true. But this is a long project. So it's not like people has to have everything they ever want to suggest ready for that meeting. They can they can we can come back to it at a future meeting and discussing it. >> To your point, we're trying to do is get agenda out on the Friday before the meeting. That's really that would be one >> and limit um almost want to say won't but I don't want to say
103no limit the amount of things that are added on after that point >> right because I always got caught because I would read the first one and then another one would come out and then I would be like oh I missed something. Okay. So I see >> in terms of so homework um is sitting with the MBA checklist and just um spending some time considering the different elements um what you think of it um and that way we'll be able to have a little more nitty-gritty um discussion. when we come back. Uh and that involves also, you know, going through these other um sample budget books and things like that and considering what appeals, what you think, um is effective and advisable. Um and I just it would be super helpful if folks are able
104to um be specific about that. So um I am sorry for for leaving homework tasks in between meetings but I think that would be great. Um okay any other discussion for now? Um do folks have other major points that think do you think should be added to the two that we already said which are the deeper spreadsheets and the um multiformat presentation? Okay. And do folks have other um rubrics for other um criteria examples things like that that they would like to suggest going on. I think right now we've just got so many different formats thrown at us that we have to see what will work best. >> Yeah. Well, that's the trouble when you're looking at multiple different schools documents because everybody's done things differently. Each one of these documents is so long, it's
105really overwhelming. And that's kind of why I like the idea of going by a rubric. >> Um because the rubric sets your goals for you. Okay, that like we want to establish this even if it's just a key how to read >> at the beginning of the document that could help. >> Well, I also don't think it's our document. it's the superintendence document. And so I just think part of what we're saying is bringing our concerns about the look of it um for for citizens to read is important. I mean the readability of it um and you know we're just advising him like that. Um, so I don't want us to again put too much on an interim superintendent. This is a multi-year process. Um, but I think it's just a case of making it
106a better process than we've had the past. >> Okay. >> A better document. And it's always going to get better every year. >> Hopefully. >> Yeah. All right. All right. Thank you everyone. It's 12:05. So for us quits for now. All right. Uh so I would take a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> We'll call a vote. I see. All in favor? I Okay. [Music]