Greenfield City Council Special Meeting - January 25, 2023

001[Music] good evening um I'd like to call to order the Greenfield city council special meeting on January 25th at 6 00 pm at the John zhan Community Center and Via Zoom this meeting is being recorded by the city council and gctv17 if any other person's present are doing the same you must notify the chairperson at this time and John John is yep okay so I have three of you thank you for that in accordance with mgl30a no person cell address a meeting of the public without permission of the chair and All Shall at the request of the chair be silent no person shall disrupt the proceedings of a meeting of a public body if after clear worrying from the chair a person continues to disrupt the proceedings the chair May order the person to withdraw

002from the meeting and if the person does not withdraw the chair authorizes a constable or other officer to remove the person from the meeting clerk Scott roll call please counselor golub here president Gwen here counseling disorder here councilor bottomly here councilor Bullock here councilor Gilmore here councilor Lapinski here councilor Mayo here councilor Healy here councilor Elmer here councilor 4G here Vice councilor Ricketts present counselor Toronto here president Gwen you have a quorum thank you item number three can we have a motion to suspend the rules so moved Ricketts motion's been made in second to suspend the rules of procedure to uh disposition of business all in favor oh okay uh it is the chair's obligation to ask for debate prior to calling for a vote on something like that I object to this motion because

003we have not yet heard from the public so I would entertain this motion afterwards and I'd like to move to table this motion but no nobody else here wants to hear from the public so is there any other discussion on this motion no see none all those in favor aye aye any any opposed I'm opposed any abstentions thank you we'll suspend the rules procedure councilor Gilmore could you read item number four on the agenda please yes um working Section with the executive chief of police and finance director By Invitation uh strategic planning to address the proposed elimination of the third shift from 11 PM to 7 A.M of the Greenfield Police Department with an alternative plan to be introduced sorry alternative plans to be introduced thank you um I appreciate you just reading that as

004it's not really emotion but it's what we're doing here this evening I'd also just like to make a few comments before we start I'd like to just first of all thank all of you that have reached out to this Council this week we had feedback from many people via many sources whether they were calling us or emailing us and I want you to know this Council I can't speak for everyone as an individual but the many that I have talked to all have been trying to respond and take your information and we appreciate the community coming together and working on this I'd like to set the tone for this evening a little bit of cooperation you know this isn't a senate hearing I'd like to avoid you know emotion and accusation and really focus on

005information and resolve we've got to move this forward and that's what I'd like to accomplish tonight so I I just want everyone to pull for the same thing which is to to move us forward and let the citizens that have been getting in touch with us and those that are concerned as much as we are know that we're working on this so I thank you all for that um I'd like to start with um inviting the mayor and then anyone else that you'd like to invite to the table with you to come up and then we'll start by you kind of updating us from where we are from when we were here in the past getting here all right hello there we go we would have um Diana Schindler Finance director here to speak of

006about the finance piece that we've presented to you and any questions you may have and um police chief Haig is here to speak to you about any operational issues or questions that you may have with regard to the plan that we are ready to put forward to resolve the midnight shift issue and then Chief of Staff Danny Letourneau here is here primarily to talk about staffing issues or from the perspective of uh you know her knowledge of this issue because she's been with us as we work through this marriage if you could slide that a Little Closer Closer okay I'm not sure thank you we can all hear all right oh that's better it's much better thank you uh so I'd like to start out tonight with thank yous so basically thank you to all

007the counselors for being here as of Monday we weren't sure because of the weather how how we were going to pull this together so thank you all of you for being here and thank you for those of you who are on counselors who were on on Zoom I want to thank president Gwen and vice president Chris forgey as well for working with Chief Hague and myself and Chief of Staff Danny Letourneau uh and the and director Chandler to find a way forward and and they did that in the early morning Thursday morning when we met and a special shout out to clerk Scott and director Warner uh Kathy can because as you know there's all kinds of rules around special meetings and how they get posted and so forth and this was one that came

008up pretty quickly so clerk Scott uh Kathy came to the city hall in the snowstorm on Monday to help us ensure that this meeting would be held properly and that you would receive all of the information that we had for you in a timely manner director Warner out of concern because he'd been up all night anyway so what's a few more hours director Warner out of concern for Kathy's safety uh drove her around to each of your houses to hand deliver your packets as required and I don't know if you know that or not maybe some of you were there and saw them but that is what happened on Monday afternoon when we finally assembled everything so that's basically what we do we rise to the occasion in City Hall and really around the city

009and lastly I I want to give a thank you to the women and men of the Greenfield Police Department and chief Hague for continuing to work under very tough circumstances and for not giving up on finding a solution it's never easy counselors as you witnessed last week to deliver bad news especially when it concerns the safety of the people of Greenfield which we all care about and but that's exactly what Chief Hague and I had to do a week ago with the news of the pending end of the third shift or the midnight shift or the overnight shift or one of its many names but the chief and I both of us want you to know that we heard you we heard you last week your concerns or our concerns your frustrations are our frustrations

010and again we heard you so as the chief and I left the meeting I instructed him to come up with a a plan to resolve this problem if such a plan could exist because as I think was indicated they're not always that easy to come up with for a variety of reasons contractual and otherwise uh but if if we could come up with another alternative I wanted him to work very hard on that he assured me he would and then he proceeded to work for the remainder of Wednesday and into the better part of the very early morning hours on Thursday with his Union Representatives of the superior and Patrol units to find a solution and that solution is the plan that we're presenting to you and the people of Greenfield and our neighbors in

011our surrounding communities tonight given that this couldn't happen without the consideration uh and the cooperation of our police officers I want to acknowledge again that it is a testament to the respect that they have for chief Hague that we've been able to come up with this plan for the work that they all do in the community on a daily basis and for the people that they are charged with protecting and um So the plan full Staffing for the bulk of the overnight shift will begin March 1st and let me repeat that again full Staffing for the bulk of the overnight shift will begin March 1st 2023. and remain in place temporarily through June 30th of 2023. mayor let's try to figure out excuse me what this is doorbell so I think and I don't see

012doordash delivering us dinner tonight so I apologize we'll keep going we're not sure where that tone is coming from the agreement struck with the police collecting bargaining units changes Staffing for patrol sergeants and Patrol officers to two 10-hour shifts four days on four days off the first shift will operate from 7 A.M to 5 PM the second shift will operate from 5 PM to 3 A.M from 3 A.M to 7 A.M there will be no coverage by the Greenfield Police Department we have notified the state police to cover 8 A.M I'm sorry 3 A.M to 7 A.M as needed those are those hours are generally um slower or have fewer calls with the understanding that this is a temporary fix for the time period that I mentioned which is March 1st to June 30th the

013Greenfield officers have agreed to waive certain union rights around overtime and and staff and shift bidding officers on the first and second shift will receive three hundred dollars per week per officer from March 1 to June 30th for the inconvenience of the change in work hours this will save significantly on overtime which we can't really afford at this point with our budget anyway and will allow us to fill those hours of the overnight shift so basically all but the four hours from three to seven are going to be covered as opposed to no hours which was the situation last week let's be clear about that agreement on the 300 per week that that cost does not include Chief Hague or deputy chief Gordon they are administrators and they do not answer calls except an extreme

014emergencies with the cops Grant we will be able to bring on two new officers in the early spring and a third officer in June additionally I have committed arpa money to assist with some of the costs of providing this coverage so in closing we look forward to continuing to work with you to come up with a budget for the next fiscal year that restores the normal operations of the Greenfield Police Department and the protection of the citizens that we all serve and as I mentioned in the beginning director Schindler our finance director is here to answer and I know you have your materials that you received the other day to answer your questions on the finance piece and um Chief Hague is certainly here to answer any of your questions on the operational piece and

015I don't know president Gwen how do you wish to proceed we're going to open it shortly to questions I just want to ask a couple of things just to kind of summarize what you just said there will be no change to what we're presently doing until March 1st March 1st we're staying intact all shifts through March 1st and then March 1st to June 30th three to seven in this plan would be covered on an as needed basis by the state police um because our present police force has made some arrangements in order to cover the shifts which you identified with the chief at the last meeting as the most concerning in that third shift which are uh the times when the bars are letting out and all of that which will have our own in-house

016coverage yes and that's that's right through the time we take a look at the budget I would ask counselors um if you have direct questions for anti any of the entities whether it's Financial or Staffing I have asked all of them uh to accompany the mayor here tonight so we don't have to have a pause and trying to figure it out I also invited um the public safety commission here this evening as our guest and we have two members of Public Safety commission here with us tonight um which I thought would be important if we have questions uh that go in that direction I also put an invitation out to the sheriff's department and I haven't seen Sheriff Donald but I did invite him because he is part of the community and I wanted that

017kind of encompassing nature so those are the people that are available which are I can answer the question about the sheriff sure he and I have taught um I don't know how we actually ended up with his day today but he was due to be at a sheriff's meeting I think in Framingham and he said he would try his best to get here but given the weather he may or may not be able to be here thank you mayor we do have communications from him though if any questions should arrive perfect um and I wanted to make sure that we had as many of the people that we were directing questions to in the past all assembled here for us tonight so we could get those questions directly if we needed so I will open

018the floor to counselors that have questions about the plan that was put in front of us tonight and see if we can answer some of the things that you've heard throughout the week and and move this forward counselor I I'm gonna hear your request counselor Gwen to keep this um really respectful and so this is a question that I have received from and that I'm sure all of us have received from many constituents and I'll try to ask it with complete respect and kindness and that is I am really glad that you're coming to us with a plan tonight and I don't understand why this plan was come to on Thursday morning as opposed to before you came to us on Wednesday night you said that after the meeting you instructed Chief Hague to come

019up with a plan and you had to figure it out and so you did on Thursday morning or at least a a better plan than what you came to us on Wednesday night and I was exhausted after that meeting and I'm sure that a lot of the people here were too and I don't know that that was necessary and I'm confused about why why we why why you came to us without this plan on Wednesday night um you said you had to deliver bad news and clearly you didn't have to deliver this bad news you didn't have to come to us with that plan so just why did that have to happen or why did it happen I appreciate that question and I may not be the only one to answer it um this issue

020has been weighing on the police department and myself and others who have been involved in them from both from a financial standpoint director Schindler and Finance director former Finance director Liz Gilman and um chief of staff for all those months and I think we tried to convey to you that we looked at a lot of different options and we have to always consider that we are not making any of these decisions in a vacuum we have to consult the people that are actually going to be out on the shifts doing the work we did not have full financial information I think as we progress through this so it didn't appear that we had a way to fund us going forward without eventually running running out of money it was going to require some cooperation I

021know that there are people out there who have all kinds of different ways that maybe this could have worked but they're not the people that work in the police department they are not the people that are charged with making those decisions it is the chief and his people that he works with and the deputy chief who are charged with making those decisions so um you know sometimes I don't know if you're a football fan or not I don't know how many of you are but sometimes you get to a point and you realize as I said we heard you we heard your concerns they were our concerns too but every now and then you have to come up with a Hail Mary and maybe that Hail Mary works um I asked the chief to do

022that to go for that Hail Mary if there was such a thing because he had to go he had to work it out as I plainly think you see here with the people who actually are going to be on the sh on the street doing the work and that is what he did and I don't think it was an easy task to do it took a while to get there so that's that's my answer that is the truthful answer I don't think that we without understanding without knowing on Wednesday night of last week whether or not there would be uniform agreement on any one plan other than the ones that we had already looked at and discussed with officers so we did go back to the drawing table I think that that is to be

023commended not not that I'm looking for accolades I didn't mean it that way I just meant it was commit I I want to as I said before commend the chief for not and the police department for not giving up and for going back to the drawing bar yeah one second could Danny continue yeah I think she might have wanted to just add to that I just wanted to give a little context to the conversations for the fall and then what happened last week um when this when we first discussed this as being the necessary option um the overnight the 11 to 7 shift being eliminated I remember I think I sat in the mayor's office and I think I actually used the word this sucks you know I mean I live here as well um

024and we use that kind of language in the confines I probably said something different actually um and and I'm not no joke I'm not joking about that we do and the other thing is last week sound it did in fact honestly feel like the only possibility at that time I do not believe as the person who did sit in as the mayor's representative on most of the negotiations with the unions of all unions not just the police Union I don't know that we would have been able to strike such an agreement with them before last Wednesday I mean honestly I'm going a little off script here and I don't know that everybody kind of heard the dire push back and need until last week I mean we really did hear what the Uproar about that

025last week and to be quite Frank the new plan that's coming forward also kind of sucks it still is bad news right so it's not great um I work with Staffing for all departments and so to speak generally in the city we don't have the luxury that some private companies and even some well-funded non-profits have to do things like hire people while someone's still there and have overlap and Staffing and training we have shortages and Staffing and have to cancel things close offices to the public here and there people get coveted and we have to close whole offices all the time and I have to help the department heads Shuffle and figure out what's the best way and which is the least hard option and so this is not a unique this is just a

026much higher Stakes example because it is the police it is Public Safety and the police are in the Limelight right now but we work with you know there's a crisis a month in terms of Staffing because of short staff low budgets and illnesses all year so I just wanted to put that as the kind of overarching theme we've got some follow-up to that I just want to give like a third party perspective because unlike normal when I find out things all there vice president 4G and I were involved in that Thursday morning meeting with the chief with the mayor with Chief of Staff Letourneau with the finance director they called they said there was a possible plan that was put together and would I come I invited vice president forgi to come with me and

027you have no reason to believe me you have no reason to believe anyone here but I will tell you it is my true belief that the chief at that morning and and he looked like uh he had just walked out the building the night before he looked he had that same he had that same look and he said I heard that you know the 12 of you I heard I heard that Council and I heard what was going on and I think the answer to all of this is for whatever reason when we all voiced opinions we got everyone on the same page in a very odd way the chief went to work on this maybe it was late maybe it should have happened before but it happened the union stepped up and came in

028and talked at that moment and then the mayor and the chief worked together and they had something fairly quickly to present but I truly believe that when we were here Wednesday night that wasn't the plan and um I too wish it happened earlier but for that reason I do think they heard us and it was a it was a good moment for this Council because I even said at that table that there was a point of of light from all 12 of you every one of you made a comment or a statement that night that was not uh based on emotion it was it was concerned that we fixed this and I think it went right to work and I would say you know I I didn't go home with the chief but he said

029he stayed up all night working on that and then he met with the state police that morning and he met with the Union that morning and I have no reason to doubt that because there was a plan so that kind of gives you what I saw and you can take it from there did you have a follow-up question and then I'm going to just one follow-up around so this is on behalf of I've been on Council since June and this is the week where I've been kind of surprised at how few emails I could actually get as a counselor um and this is the week that I've gotten more emails than any other time and so I feel like I have to make a request on behalf of my constituents and on the behalf of

030your constituents which is we might have difference of differences of opinions about things but I do believe that you have that I believe that you all are very intelligent people and that sounds I don't mean that I mean that a really out of respect um I've given all the time between the cuts and last Wednesday I do believe that the the response could have been anticipated that that our constituents concern could have been anticipated and that a lot of Consulting could have happened a lot of information the full you said the full financial information I believe I could be wrong but I wholeheartedly believe that you had the capacity to figure that out before scaring the public in the way that happened and I guess my request is that you anticipate that your actions really

031you're the you're the mayor and the chief of police and that they they really had an impact on our constituents which is why this room is full again and to to please think about it before you come to us with such an announcement next time um and come with the full financial information [Applause] we're going to hear from councilor Mayo Doug can you hear us I can thank you uh thank you president um I too uh read a lot of uh emails um it wasn't as many emails as I've received uh about certain topics but uh quite a few emails uh from across the the Gambit of uh uh Justin or from my precinct to other precincts to people just who are concerned that went to meetings and and uh attended online and they were

032very supportive of the city council and how we um uh how we responded and how we dealt with things and and uh they felt um that we were rated we were right in right in step with with many of their issues and um I just want to say that um that uh we hear that I too would like uh uh a workable solution but it's too bad that it came at the at the bit on the backs of unions even though they may have agreed but they you know I wasn't present there at the meeting uh uh that uh police chief Hague was there uh I don't know how much pressure was put on them to to come up with a deal uh if they offered that was that was very kind of them but

033uh having been a union president before I I find this kind of uh pressuring uh uh very disconcerting because who knows what happens next month there could be another budget or or something could fall through the thing and we'd have to go back to other unions and ask for a concession but uh so I I don't believe that that was a very good strategy I think that money is in the budget is this being hidden and um uh where in this is in this temporary measure is Justice and accountability that's what I want to know and that's what the members of of the people who responded uh were calling for it too uh is they were still saying that there was not enough accountability and Justice being heard uh by uh certainly from the council

034but not uh from the administration and certainly from police chief hey there was no apology there was no there was not even a mention of the court case so my question is again where is accountability and Justice in this in this temporary measure thank you thanks councilor Mayo I'm going to um I want to answer another question before you get to that piece because there was a piece of information in there that I think is important um he posed a question about the unions um I'd like an explanation to how the union process happened and chief hey explained that to us on the morning of and if someone could just bring that up I think that's a piece that is important I can start and then if the chief thinks he needs to elaborate he

035can the chief the reunions were here I mean you guys saw there were a number of police officers uniformed officers dispatch almost entirety of dispatch who wasn't working they were here they saw the meeting and so they were on board to also discuss and have um conversations about how to fix this these people care about the community as well and you guys will notice that evens that even still you know coming up with the final workable plan you know we signed this was all signed today so you guys have that paper in front of you now um so I don't believe I think it was a mutually came uh agreed upon plan Chief anything to add to that or all right um thank you I just want to make sure that we're there um counselor

036de sorger it's counselor disorder and then Lapinski and then we'll she's writing them down if you have a piece to any of this that doesn't want to wait for some reason just get my attention counselor disorder um I first wanted to say I've talked with some police during the week and I just wanted to shout a thank you also Jenny can you just pull that a little closer I wanted to make a shout out also to the men and women in our police force who have been working short and extra hours and um that they've once again stepped up and decided that they would you know you talk to the union represents they were going to help out they put their lives on the line for our safety all the time and I'm grateful and

037I just wanted to start by saying that um I I feel like right now we're in a better place than we were last week about I think that we're still in a place that we shouldn't be in and I I actually have to set the record straight on a couple of things in my opinion I heard at the beginning of this about the information that we received and I'd like to be very clear that I have not received information that I asked for um and I I actually had a talk with Diana Schindler today about this um I I had a really tough week I didn't sleep the first two nights after this really for three hours I think some of you know this I've talked to many of you on the phone I've been

038on the phone for hours with people who were afraid and I reached out to some of what I thought was one of those people in the wrong to see how I could help um but the worst phone call that I had was from the mother of a firefighter and she was concerned about the scene being cleared in that domestic violence or a violent situation that that's usually cleared so that EMS or AMR can go in and take care of folks and that was the one phone call that I actually had to get off the phone because I could feel my um voice was starting to crack and I thought well get off the phone quick so we ended that and I reached out to the fire chief to ask for the policy on that I

039put it in writing as I have done for three and a half years I was told to write to the clerk and to Tammy and used to be Geneva announced a Quinn and I write the council president and the council vice president and the person I'm asking the questions of and I asked my question in 18 hours later I have an answer back from the fire chief this is what's happened to me I just have to say this I want to move forward but I have to be very clear I ask for information that I never receive I asked for information I won't belabor the point but I asked for information on how big the sally port was going to be and how big the one was that we had I never even got a

040reply but on a happy note I'm sticking to the point here this is very very important when I didn't get that I went up to the police department and a wonderful police officer came out to help me I had had help from friend of mine Bob who builds houses and he told me how to eyeball a place he told me that telephone poles are 40 feet high and showed me how long my house were so I could estimate the answer because I'm not given it and I am now the chair of ways and means this is not acceptable and it's not a way to do business if any of you want my emails I'm not Mrs foia I'm happy to send them to you um so I I just have to go on when do

041we ask for that information I have all the dates no when did you ask for that that particular information yeah I have them all right here I can read them if you'd like because it's so lovely I would love to read how kindly I write I I just I'd love to read one but I'm not going to because that was March 15th another one was May 3rd I say things like you're so good I know you're so busy thank you in advance and I I don't get the answer and today because we're coming to this is Public Safety is on the line Public Safety is on the line that was my whole life's work and I actually couldn't believe last week I thought am I from another planet I did scheduling this was my job

042and I heard one person left in July another one October 7th I had to go look through the paper I asked exactly the dates and I told it was some improper form that whatever that I didn't maybe there's some new way that we're going to ask for information the financial part of this is very important and I actually as you know Diana I do understand it on the munis paper that we got we have encumbrances of salaries I wanted to know I wanted to know who left when because it appeared to me that we encumbered salaries of folks that weren't there so being an intelligent person I asked for information that I didn't receive and that I never received I would like to point out that Lieutenant Dodge sent me something on the grant when

043I when I didn't get information after 10 days so I I just I have to say that I want to also say that I had a lot of people that came to me that they are thrilled because I told people when I heard I thought I think an announcement should have been made the day after for all the people having anxiety attacks um for any person at home that didn't know this I knew the day after and I think that the entire city should have known the day after that we have a plan that it's not going to be all night my little grandson that I picked up today I'm telling him about it he said well that's a bad idea Grammy he said then the robbery should all come at three and I thought

044right right Jackson he just turned 12. and and I I'm really convinced that he's not going to grow up to be a robber but if he was he'd know when to come here at 3am so um I simply asked for information and and it doesn't help right now to beat people up I get that but the truth needs to be told you told people on the radio I heard I heard you during this week you said on the radio mayor you got the Grant in December and I have a piece of paper in my hand just a moment with a signature on it November 16th um 12 16 pm and I thought we were looking it doesn't really matter that's not the point the point is to tell the truth that's what I learned at

045home to tell the truth and to be part of a team I need to be part of the team I will help you it was snowing out today no matter what I had today I would have been here I answered every call every single call and I'm still here to help and I have a suggestion at the end of a couple of things first the charter says um in section five seven that you could make a provision to you could have made a provision to submit a supplemental budget I was expecting that it didn't that just let me finish I was expecting that it failed to come through which scared people and by failing to do that we aren't keeping people safe I would like to also because I did scheduling I'd like to also

046suggest and I think it is absolutely fabulous again this is nothing to our Police Department nothing but praise goes to the department because they're helping us um and and they're working short and they're going to work longer hours however I did scheduling and I I think with you just I was delighted to hear it was four four on four off that's what it looks like four on four off but if you had 12 hours you could cover um the shifts with that it'd be hard doing four twelves I've done them um you could cover with 24 people you could cover the entire shift you know the not have a break at 3am um the scheduling pattern is used for many police and fire departments it's a better way to use staff it's better for morale

047you could have one you'd have one person in charge and um there's only one shift change instead of two so you're actually gonna have two so there's less hold over it would be reduced so that was a just a thought because many of the people that I talked to and there are people that I represent were afraid of the three to seven period I will continue despite getting no information I will continue to come here and try to work with you but I have to be clear about what happened and what I still don't know and Diana if you would like to answer all of the questions that I put into writing I would like to hear that now let's um let's back up for one second we'll try to disseminate some of these questions

048but first I want to answer to the questions because I have was involved in those it was interesting that councilor disorder brought up the request for information because Chief of uh staff Letourneau and I and the finance director talked about this because I saw it as as an issue that we wanted to tweak early on only because [Music] I want to make sure you're getting the information because several of you have come to me um I I could talk to counselor Bullock this week I I talked to councilor to sorga this weekend they were saying they were asking for information and they weren't they hadn't received it or it was so I asked two things I asked our Clerk and I asked um the chief of staff what is the policy where is the policy

049we had a policy on how to ask for information so and that's been around for years and it was intended so we all don't ask the same question multiple times where is this information stored how does it work and and that happened this week and my whole incentive that was two parts one was so we all don't ask for the same information that once it's asked once we can get an answer and then get it out to all of you and second of all I want a logging system in our clerk's office that says counselor Bullock asked for the financial parts of the Grant on this date and they were received on this date and Kathy said Dan that's going to be a ton of work and I said yeah probably so um and that's

050really was my answer she'll tell you that was um and the reason is we won't have that where counselor disorder says I asked for 10 things and I I only heard from two so be known that it's interesting that before you brought this up and even you brought this up to me today but they will both tell you I talked about this last Thursday and it was because councilor bottomley had asked for information and Council you know there were people asking for information so rest assured that I'm trying to get the solve of that in cooperation with a chief of staff Letourneau and our own clerk so we can log the requests and then get the information and then disseminate the information to everybody so so that piece is happening and the second part that

051you said and I'm gonna turn it over to the people that know more about this when you were you mentioned that you were when councilor 4G and I met on Thursday you wish everyone had known on Thursday and the problem was on Thursday it was an idea and if you notice you're a person that loves dates and and and specifics the memorandum of understanding what the union was only signed today so anything that would have been spoken before they signed this would have really been an idea not a plan and when it was presented to us it was presented as an idea so I would have been more afraid of saying this is what we're going to do and then have it come back and say just kidding um so I do appreciate the fact

052that we're going to have this meeting and I was going to have this meeting no matter what we there was three reasons we were going to bump this meeting this week we didn't have the information yet it was going to snow and I'm like oh no no we're having this meeting because people thought February 1st was the day and that is really not unfair because that's next Wednesday so I just want to say that a lot of it was an idea not a plan and then they had to put those details together to get us the plan maybe they knew the Monday and not Wednesday I you know that part I don't know except I looked at the memorandum of understanding with the unions and that was dated today so if they didn't sign this

053we wouldn't have a plan so I'm not sure when this came to be I'm gonna turn this back over to Chief of Staff Letourneau who had some answers to some of those questions and then I think there was an operational question or two in there too but I'll I'll just let that proceed and if the chief feels that there's something he should answer and counselor disorder if there's clarification on any of those questions just make sure that we get them because that's what we're here for I am mindful that there are other counselors and I assure you probably are too that have issues questions they want to bring forward so we'll try to be brief I'm trying to remember which operational question I was going to answer uh answering of information maybe Gathering which Dan

054did talk about yes we were trying to put so one of the things that I did starting in 2020 when I first came into this job and you can ask department heads what a pain I was about it was to try and operationalize um and create Sops checklists tracking systems I was I wanted to get a CRM system for the mayor's office for constituent correspondence um these are all software and or Personnel things that most of which haven't happened yet but we're doing the best we can um this is gonna it's I I don't want this to sound like an excuse I understand what you mean counselor disorder I want with my voicemail at this moment is full my email if you don't get me and I don't see it in probably six to nine

055hours it goes to the second page um that's just me you know so the department heads we are doing the best we can in coming up with this system that we had sort of verbally talked about in 2020 and started at first where it all comes to the clerk's office would help us be accountable that this wasn't answered and that wasn't answered I know there was a point I think maybe a year or two ago where we had some counselors we put them we directed them to put certain larger requests into next request and that felt I think to some counselors like oh you're pushing me off I love next requests I love next requests because it sends me reminders it has a deadline and it has emails not because I want it to necessarily

056be I don't think that counselors should have to go through the same thing I know you guys are City councilors but like we are human beings who are doing the best we can in a city that only really got into the 21st century of Technology during covid so I apologize that you don't get the answers you want in the time you want we are trying very hard and we are actively now working on that um on top of working with all the other things that we have to work on getting the information to the counselors we we're trying with respect to the grant I've signed a lot of papers with that Grant starting back in the summer time when I authorized them to go forward with the application and while we may have received stuff

057in October and November we did not receive the official notification uh until December so it was December 16th and the reason why it's post-dated is the most ridiculous question a ridiculous story you guys would ever want to hear so half of you will not believe me but because of the way that the Federal grant Works they notified the financial contact person on that Grant and the notifications of the financial contact on that Grant came in the form of an email that asked the person to log in to a portal to see whether we received the grant or not the person listed on there was a Treasurer collector who probably did not know that we had that the police department had applied for the grant there are a flurry of emails that I was bcc'd and

058cc'd on where people were looking for some link because we had heard that we may have received this Grant and then by the time we realize that the link was in the wrong inbox it was December 16th that is the honest to God true story counselor disorder just follow up on that because I know there's a piece of that I'm going to let this go because I want my fellow counselors that we've all grown very closely this was a plot from movie people would not believe it and they would send us back to the drawing board it is honest it's not true it's I believe I truly you know me I'm the kind of person that says if you do the best you can that's good enough because that's all we're asked of that's that's

059all of you whatever system you think of I think of it I was from the time I was little like just do your best but two things number one I have that in front of me just just for anybody that wants to see it it's signed by both people on November 16th okay and secondly I was in a meeting I I was in a meeting with you on the fifth asking for things that I I just didn't get it it's the only it doesn't happen town wide every other department that I ask for information from I can get it and now it will just go on we have to move forward straight on this okay that's all over now councilor Lapinski um so uh I have two very brief comments and I have a couple

060questions about this first comment is uh if you provide us with full information up front you'll get a lot less requests for information and that might reduce your workload now I don't mean that in in a in a personal way this could apply to anyone but I can't help but notice there's a flaw in the logic there um and with regard to counselor disorders a statement that she picked up every call she didn't pick up mine but it wasn't important so that's okay uh here's here's the thing this uh this plan I think it's a decent plan uh it very well might be the best we can do it certainly could have been proposed thought of evaluated agreed to six months ago um actually before I get into the question I have about the specific

061language here where did we get the money to continue full coverage until March it's it's going to be overtime budget so it'll be burning through the overtime budget yes my question is last week we couldn't afford that now we can where did the new money come from for this it's not I I mean maybe do you understand why there you go sure so um as as the staff has been leaving through attrition as has been noted we re-assess the encumbrances that are in the that are in the budget as uh counselor disorder mentioned um and so each time um that's been freeing up a little bit of money because the folks that are leaving are a little bit higher paid than some folks we expect to come in so that's where we feel like there'll

062be some money available for overtime but it's still the the budget itself has paid out substantial BuyBacks that at the end of the year we expect we will move off to compensated absences but right now the budget is still very much um it it to me it feels very precarious like we we need to we understand that we need to add staff but to do it within the confines of the the money that we have now I feel would be a little bit Reckless I am concerned that the February 1st deadline was artificially imposed to create more urgency in in the context of last week's meeting my question with regard to this is um this States and uh I am not the best mathematical person ever so I might just have this wrong but I

063don't think so four days on four days off how many hours a week is that it doesn't seem like it adds up to 40. I heard the chief say some weeks it does something I'm sorry actually you misspoke it's four days on and two days off so if you if you lay isn't it that way no that's not what this is oh I'm sorry the news this says starting March Okay so so you are right so four days on is 40 hours and then they go on four days off the scheduling is done that way so we can have the same Staffing during those time frames yeah for the first 10 and the second ten it's the way it works we're not going to stagger people that way so there's four groups to cover four

064days on four days off twice days twice Eaves twice or whatever you want to call it till 3am you are correct some weeks there's 40 some weeks there aren't 40. currently it's the same situation we work four days on two days off some weeks you have full 40 some weeks you don't it's just the way it rotates they're not not everybody some people are still on a 5-2 schedule there's still some Administration that are on five two schedules there's still some detectives that are on 5-2 schedules not a lot of them but this allows us to staff where we can allow for a day off per shift because again we have that unfunded liability of vacation time that we need to pay at some point whether it's giving them time off so there there are

065accruals come down or we don't give anybody time off and we're gonna have to come up with all and I I know uh Diana has these numbers because we've gone through them multiple times a substantial amount of money that we're gonna have to pay people that we can't give time off to that's just contractual so that's how this schedule works the unions have we have talked about this schedule to be honest with you for years because some people really like it I don't like it because it leaves gaps it's just a fact it leaves gaps you need actually two more sets of four people to cover those gaps to have that schedule to continuously go if if you wanted to stick with tens again I don't like it I don't like the twelves because you're

066going to burn people out and you're also going to burn through overtime because now you are talking about a substantial amount of overtime to do 48 hours and then still on those other off weeks you're still going to be over 40 hours so I just I don't like that idea because we don't have the money we don't have the bodies we're going to burn people out yeah okay so just on the four and four that's why it is that way yes so I was asking a more specific question which has to do with the idea that I understand a full-time job to be 40 hours a week um and it looks to me like part of the deal here is that you're we're going to be paying the full-time salaries for less than full-time hours

067and the second part of this question um is that this says any time this is the last sentence on the page quote any time worked outside of an employee's regular 10 hour a day work schedule will be considered overtime but they haven't even gotten to 40 hours yet some of those weeks so how can you pay someone overtime when they have worked less than 40 hours police and fire are different that's all I can tell you it's not it's it's mastering a lot I I can't get into that right now I don't have it sitting in front of me that's just the way it works and it's contractual again they're waiving that right typically it's eight hours anything over the eight hours they're getting overtime regardless of regardless how many hours do they work prior

068if an eight-hour day and we hold somebody for two hours they get two hours of overtime eight hour period it's I'm answering your question so this now they're giving up their right to the eight hour bid their 10 hour bid anything over that 10 hours of the assigned shift yes that would be overtime right but that would mean that they'd be getting overtime for hours that fall within the 40-hour work week okay so nobody else in society gets that that is a privilege that you are granting could to Greenfield City police officers it's just not true councilor I'm sorry counselor 4G I'm just going to jump to council 4G for a second I'm I'm going to go to Bullock and Gilmore but Council Ford did you have a statement on that piece I I see

069you coming out of your chair so I I am coming out of my chair thank you um I think that you need to look at other operations that are around the clock that that have Manning round the clock to understand that kind of a shift and if you are um you working a day shift and a night shift I'm going to use an example don't know if it's the way it is now but it was back then um fire department it was 10 hours on during the day and 14 hours on during the night now that means that their staff they're in the station they're ready to go do they get a call every night they may not they may get 10 calls but you have to have the Manpower there and you have to

070pay them in an eight-week cycle those 24 hours work themselves off I mean they work themselves down to a 40-hour week because people need time off there's also not the overtime the weekends and stuff like that there's also the higher in the shift but the normal work schedule was 10 hours on 14 off in an eight week cycle it comes out to everybody's working a 40-hour week yeah I mean the easy question is that there are some Industries where the day um is where your overtime kicks in and some were the week so in 1998 I worked at the Kane's Pickle Factory in Deerfield do you guys remember that place and I worked there for a summer we were offered we got overtime daily if we stayed past 7.5 hours a day and so you

071were there was a lot of times we could volunteer for that overtime it didn't matter if I didn't work 40 hours a week um and I did volunteer for that overtime and then I also offered the voluntary layoff because I did not like working in the factory oh okay but my point overall I am not saying that officers should not be paid overtime if they work more than their shift in a day I would want them to because otherwise they're going to show up to my house grumpy which they have not done and I don't want grumpy guys with guns at my house ever my point is that while that makes sense on a day-to-day on a week to week on a year to year from the taxpayers perspective the taxpayer wants to get the

07240 hours for that full-time salary so day to day yes but if I think this works out to about 38 hours a week so those other two hours are already being paid out to the police officers even though they're not expected to work them and even though they will get overtime if they do so that is a concern of the taxpayer even if it is policy it doesn't make it good policy I'm done with my questions for now councilor Bullock hmm yeah um so I have a couple specific questions and uh I had made a promise to be home at 8 pm for bedtime and that does not seem like it's happening tonight um stop telling stories we might get there yeah so um my first question is I'm wondering how much is the arpa

073funding that you're committing to the police department moving forward you know that's a certainly a legitimate question I think that number is a little fluid right now we are talking about a hundred and fifty two thousand I'm looking at this hundred and fifty two thousand hundred and yeah 151 too okay give or take now it has to do with the grant is important hiring those people and getting them on as soon as possible is important so it's it's a little fluid as to what at what point we may need to tap into arpa so but I so when I when I what I have committed is to use arpa funds I haven't committed to an exact number because like a lot of this and I think that's what's hard for folks to get a handle

074on is we don't always know the exact number we pay bills every week we pay bills every month the encumbrance is move like this throughout so we have to decide that at this point this is the number we want so that's why I'm not going to say it's exactly that or if it may be a little bit more okay and so that arpa funding that you're willing to commit um is that to cover the portion the quarter of the grant that we need or will we need to commit an extra pot of funding through like a fiscal order or something other some other Avenue or is the arpa going to cover that Grant I'm going to let uh we've discussed this and again it's not as clear-cut an answer but I think Diana can probably

075help help with it and then I'll add whatever I need to so that is the second part of the worksheet that I'd provided the all the way to the right hand side is the proposed amount for the um the proposal we're talking about until the end of the year with the additional Staffing that we currently have and then the bottom piece is the proposed Grant if there were to be if we were to move forward with the grant then we I would anticipate paid about seventy Thousand Seven ninety by the end of the fiscal year that we would have incurred in expenses and that is a very again fluid number because a lot of it is based on whether the folks have a degree whether they um you know what type of overtime I've included

076some over time so we can be realistic about that but that again is not an exact number whether um and then also I did include because the grant allows us to bill for The Fringe as well so I did an estimate based on our current benefit plans if somebody were to take our highest benefits you know what the possible Fringe might be so we would be able to submit for a 75 reimbursement 75 reimbursement of about the same amount that we would potentially be sure in the police budget some of that is for Fringe as I noted for health insurance but we don't anticipate having a deficit at this time in health insurance again that that's a moving Target because we're hiring people every day but we don't at this time so so again at

077the at the end of the day we're just going to have some potential gaps or deficits that we have to fill in this the 70 000 would be part of the way we would fill that okay so just to just to make sure I'm understanding correctly so there's and I understand these numbers are somewhat fluid there will be the 151 ish thousand dollars from arpa funding give or take ish um and then there will potentially be another 70 to 90 000 is it the 70 for the reimbursement and then the nine or then the 22 for The Fringe well the 70 would be what we would expect for the reimbursement from the grant 75 of the full amount of salaries in Fringe okay so then there would potentially be another 70-ish thousand dollars that we

078have to find no that's coming from the grant so what I'm saying is you wouldn't you wouldn't need any other money in the police department but okay the 151 is all we would need for 2023. yes okay as far as you know right now if things were to to move forward the way we're we're presenting them okay again there's there's overtime there's always you know there's as everyone is alluded to you can't control call volume you know there's other factors at play yep um so I am really trying to keep this in a like looking forward place and I'm I'm aware that we're getting into budget season for 2024. um very much so and uh I think all of us through the media through these meetings have rehashed how we have come to where we

079are currently today um and what I am requesting is that um there is two big pieces of work that have sort of been asked to be moved forward um that potentially don't have price tags attached to them um and in terms of Next Step as next steps as we moved it move into budget season I think as a city councilor as someone who in this past two weeks has received many of these emails um and many of them have been different than the emails I've received since May right they say please don't let this happen that we don't have overnight an overnight force and we need accountability and police reform within our city right so there's a lot of people in our community that are holding both things right now um and I so what

080I'm asking is moving forward um as we get into this budget season that in in good conscience we are able to move two specific things forward I have a much longer list that I'll send you guys but for the sake of this meeting I have two two requests one is that um there's a public safety commission overhaul uh that there is a written complaints review process that's clear and public and that we have no vacancies as long as we have applicants um and the other is an idea that sort of was hatched from uh councilor 4G and I having a conversation today that there's or this week they've all Blended together that there's coordination um between the DV task force and the public safety commission to push for collaboration and a coordinated review of background

081checks and investigation of allegations of Violence by officers in the Greenfield Police Department and the second is specific to the cops Grant I'll email you these so you know don't feel like you have to take notes um the second is in reference to the cops grant that there is a thorough review of hiring policies and practices by an outside entity uh before we make these hires and that background checks uh that there's thorough background checks and that there's consultation for a Dei process to hiring uh within with before we hire for the for this grant um and so that might have a price tag but I think it was a hundred thousand dollars I think it might have been so there's a third bullet that I won't read tonight that's relating to that but um

082those are the two requests as we move into the next budget season that those are actual bodies of work that could be easily moved forward um and be a start to some of the things that I think the community's asking for the last question I have is it looked like with these timings there was a potential to hire starting in March is that because we have applicants in the pipeline just real quick we have two uh individuals who had gone through our training as Reserve officers and what specials we'll call them because we're not Civil Service anymore uh they're certified we actually checked this week between post and the Bridge Academy that neither one of them would actually have to go away to a full-time Academy because that's obviously a cost a big time cost

083so we do have two currently uh that are residents of the county um that we've talked to because we've trained them I can't guarantee you right now that they're going to say yes because we I don't want to promise them anything but we do have two potential that would be TurnKey because we've already trained them they've already been with us for I don't a couple years anyway as part time one is a full-time police officer in another Community don't want to name it just in case they don't want to lose them and then the other one works for the Franklin County Sheriff's Department so we do collaborate with them as well so okay great I would ask that those two individuals or however many in the pipeline go through this process the the process that

084um I've named and I will send you all those those two things plus a few more um if you also want to uh if you want to email uh Lieutenant Dodge yep um and he'll send you who we use currently for the outside vetting process for hiring because we do use an outside application uh program so he can send that to you great counselor Gilmore yeah I want to go back to the hours because I don't think I understand um how this is written out in this agreement but this averages to be 35 hours a week and the narrative that we've been getting for the last year has been that they're overworked and then it references on those second page in the first paragraph that they're going to get an extra six hundred dollars per

085pay period as compensation for the inconvenience and I'm wondering if we can afford to if they're working 35 hours a week and getting an extra six hundred dollars per pay period I'm really questioning what kind of hours are they working currently when we're being told that they're burning through overtime I really want to know what the CR what the what's the normal state if this is what you know and I gotta say like the fastest impact bargaining in the history of ever totally you better believe it so that's a two-week pay period first just to make sure that's clear um and it is thirty dollars per hour for the additional hours the way it was explained to me which is less than many of the officers make more than some of them make but they've

086all agreed to it that's the simple answer from the non-police officer sitting here um so the normal schedule for patrol is four on two off four days on eight hour shift two days off four days on two days off so you rotated um Administration is still five and two normal hours whatever that might be start to finish that's their normal shift it takes six officers to cover Patrol officers to cover a four and two schedule for the eight days yes when I was in the military oh I'm saying that's what we wear currently and then we're going to this so that we can have the same amount of officers to respond to calls on those two 10-hour periods so we can still Grant the time off that right now if we Grant time off it's

087overtime just it's just overtime we're sick we're currently five bodies short the six is leaving in February so that's why we're going to burn through our overtime to keep the shifts filled on midnights we'll hold people over we'll do overtime if we can't have somebody volunteer for overtime we'll hold them we'll force them but that's going to be overtime to get us through February that's why we're not starting this till March 1st well so I think where I'm confused is I worked four on two off when I was in the military I'm going to tell you they're getting more days off if that's what you're asking you are absolutely right they're giving up their union rights to provide extra hours of coverage every day on a temporary basis until we can get through budget season

088in hopes that we don't have to do this if we can come to hopefully some agreement through budget season if we can get the Grant application done and that going that's three officers right there um if we bring back a fourth officer maybe we can fill with overtime again and get back to a midnight shift and not the schedule but you are 100 right there making more money for the the giving up of their union rights and yes we did this exceptionally quick right no I I understand but I'm missing something here because right now you're talking about their four on two off the agreement says four on four off so more time off but they're getting the 600 every two weeks type it I don't understand how this results in having more coverage it

089sounds like it's less coverage they're working 10 hours four tens not for eight hours four on two off with only eight hours or eight hour shifts they're going forward four days on four days off everybody's doing ten hour shifts there'll be 20 hours of coverage I'm not trying to interrupt I think I understand now the four on two off was an eight-hour shift correct so they were in 36 hours there were three shifts of four on two off okay and they rotate and again it's contractual it's negotiated we actually years ago got more more hours they were working a five day on three day off schedule when I first got here I don't think anyone should be aware you know I'm just saying if you do the math we actually added a lot of days

090back in so it doesn't work out like a normal work week like Norm like regular civilian people it's not per week because of the the on off thing I had the same exact problem as you're having right now right so yeah round and round and round when I did four on two off I mean I was doing 12 hour shifts so like I know that's not something you can sustain for you know a 20-year career I get that there's a reason I'm out now but I'm really I'm bothered by this because I feel like when the way this was presented to us before is that they're all working overtime we don't have enough coverage and I'm I'm assuming that that means that they're working these like 50 hours 60 hours and I was feeling really

091bad because I know like medical workers often do have to do that and now I'm looking at this going yeah what crisis I was talking about so some were and this will alleviate that they won't be doing that which is safer for the community but the other part and this is I think we we brushed on it before and it's something that gets forgotten in these particular contracts and in many of the contracts in the city with the unions if you don't take your vacation time you get paid your vacation time okay and so we want them to have the rest days I see you're shaking your head I get it I don't I don't have that in my contract but you get there's a certain point where it triggers and they actually get the

092money and we don't have the money to pay out the vacation they're not taking so this will ensure both are taking the vacation so we're not ended up at the end of the year with a bunch of payouts and also they get rest and we get coverage all about those couple of hours is that accurate that's accurate right here fantastic councilor Gilmore is that answered your question yeah it answers my question I don't know that IT addresses my concern uh no doubt I'm not even going to Dutch you on that one no doubt at all counselor Toronto point of order can we get a fourth microphone because I I find it difficult to and a chair receive that why don't we take counselor Elmer's microphone no council Elmer is not going to miss it yeah

093laughs you okay with that counselor sing it and she felt stuff let her know if you want to move up to the table by all means um I'm just looking over what I had written because some have already been some have already been asked um their so is there going to be any type of I guess this is elaborating on on someone else's question uh I think Jenny's question about um clearing the area for fire support things like that um is there going to be any any part of this plan that could cover those kind of emergency but non-life-threatening kind of things um I.E I don't know we had some water main breaks last year obviously police were showing up to those probably first in some response by getting a call from somebody and then

094you know then obviously DPW gets involved and things like that or if there's um lines down I know that sometimes you have to have somebody show up for that kind of thing is there any kind of uh Staffing idea that could do that because I know you had said before that you know the reason why you don't want to send you know only two people on a shift is for their safety for responding to calls like domestic violence calls or you know confrontations but as far as um I don't know even having one or two folks around for for something like that the easy answer is if we're there we have a duty to act yeah uh period it doesn't matter if if uh it's a line down or a domestic so if someone's there

095we have to do it um the state police are going to um be that that primary from three to seven we've had multiple conversations despite what the recorder said um that we had talks uh before the meetings we had talks after the meetings I had a talk today I have a 10 o'clock meeting tomorrow um while there is no there is no such thing right now as a formal request I'm not putting anything in writing they are the the primary they have to by law but we are speaking with them to say during those hours if you happen to have some more people that would be great and this is the time to ask them with with um their structure but that doesn't mean that I have any control over the state police right but

096they are aware of everything that's going on here they're probably they've been watching these meetings someone from has been sitting on Zoom watching these this meeting last meeting and again we're talking again tomorrow at 10 o'clock in the morning we are hoping that this is a very temporary situation if we can get more bodies in our building um I'm hoping we can at some point have a different plan before the 30th of June yeah to answer your question oh that was allowed Mike I'm sorry I wanted to answer the question about emergencies or unforeseen things you said like wires down things like that those are already things that when they happen if we have to call in extra people then it hits overtime that could still happen those are also things that have always been

097unforeseen in budgets and we just have to deal with it when it happens okay you know if we need to if we if we need to we're going to hold people's we're not going to just you know 3 A.M if there's a emergency happening we're not going home we're going to still be there to finish it out of course um after three o'clock if it you know the details Simon say that was brought up last week most of the people you see out there on the details that are out there aren't actual police officers they're tired or they work for other agencies we'll still have the ability for that that's a different program that's a different situation a lot of lines and trees down now and I'm sure the fire chiefs here can can answer

098it a lot of them we can't even get to to be honest with you you know a storm we we don't have that ability but if we have something which we've had where we've had the flooding and everything else we'll bring people in on overtime I'm not guaranteeing how much we have we're not just going to ignore it I mean if we're going to have certain situations because again we're still on call for detective work too right you know people pass away unfortunately at the early hours of the morning um we State Police aren't going to handle those things for us so we're still going to be handling those things and do I want them going by themselves at that hour in the morning depending on what it is absolutely not so we'll probably be

099calling in our own people for overtime this is not a fix-all elimination of all overtime also if we need to call people in early for that four hour block we have the ability to do that more Monday through Friday because of administrative people the supervisors Union is part of this as well and they're giving up basically working out a grade right so they're going to be answering calls as well so if we have to call in people we will do that and we will hold them over and if there's an emergencies we will do that and if the state police comment and it's something that they need assistance with because they're it's going to be tied up and they're going to have to take off then we're going to have to figure out calling in

100somebody on overtime right those are things we're going to have to figure out they're not going to be gone away it's just primary coverage and Patrol from those hours as it stands primary won't be it won't be there the state police will be primary but if we have to come in we will we're not going to ignore things I think I mean I appreciate the answer and I think that that's a more clear representation of what what can happen during the times we don't have a shift rather than the idea of it being you know blanketly you're not going to have anybody there and and nobody's going to respond to anything unless it's life or death because I was kind of what we were given before so I'm glad that that's a better Council Toronto

101that that's the question of the night so far that that Gap that you just identified and the chief gave us the answer we've been looking for for you know since I sat with him a week ago and it was exactly that I I finally heard what I wanted to hear if there was an emergency our people would not just go home you asked that question I think that question alone shows that we're not going to have if there's a true emergency in our community overtime is still available and the detective part that the chief just explained right if you know if someone passes away at four in the morning it's going to be our detective that that goes there and and and and that'll just happen so thank you for asking that and chief thanks

102for that explanation because I think that's one of the questions I was most concerned about right um so I I don't want to like bring up bad feelings or anything as well but I do know that in the past I'd made some comments that um weren't that great about I don't know kind of playing dirty pool and uh while I appreciate the football analogy of a Hail Mary I have another one and that's called the ball is dropped um on the planning and I want that to be clear that because I don't think it really was and I don't think it was reported that way that though we made the cuts in May as others have have echoed there's been eight months since that happened we've heard crickets other than a possibility of the report

103we received in the late spring early summer about what potential things could happen so that means there was already the idea that this could happen and and I've heard answers like well we didn't know necessarily how much money it was going to be or how much we would have left well that's what accounting is for um you don't you if you know what your budget is and you don't have to wait for a quarterly reporter or a buy you know a half year report especially if you already know you're gonna you're you're gonna be lower than what you thought that should been to me that would have been like first and foremost on my on my whiteboard of what I got to deal with and while I'm I'm happy that some solution has been reached

104and obviously I think it should be expected that there would be skepticism from the public about how quickly that happened and it's great that negotiations happen I know that they take a long time a lot a lot of time with the unions but if if nothing else I would hope that this would be a lesson about foresight in any situation um when you're dealt when you're dealt what I'm sure that you feel is a raw deal um schools have been cut before dpw's been cut before I'm sure the fire department's probably been cut before and the things that get done to accommodate that to make it work have been I'm sure that it sucks for them too you know and it's there's never easy answers but those are the things that have to be dealt

105with throughout and and as I said last week it it unfortunately felt like another political move to to rehash tossing us under the bus for for making that cut because there was no solution at the time there was no Financial order brought up at the time there was nothing other than to report hey remember that thing you guys did eight months ago well now now everybody's gonna be pissed off about it and you know I just I hope that moving forward we don't have to have something like this happen again regardless of where the cut is what department it's for um what the motivation is it's just there are things that that might not go the way that's proposed or the way that you want it to and I think it's just a more um

106adult way frankly to deal with it is well pull up your bootstraps you know and and make something work um but sorry tangent um so the other question I had was um where the so last week when we were talking about the hiring it was like there's no pool of applicants out there there's nobody out there that was that was the response I got with asking that question was there was nobody out there that wasn't um that wasn't at all what I said we as of last week we didn't have an answer from post or Bridge we got those yesterday sitting in my office that's when I made the phone calls okay we also had one of the two that wasn't even considering taking a job because of what's going on understandably enough they have

107a full-time job somewhere else conversations have happened since Monday right so so I guess my question would be if this is how how would the I guess that I I think it's a little bit frustrating because how it's done we hey can we just um there's no pressure there's a bunch of people out there that have all kinds of stuff to say he's lying do a good job Dan I am here in my job there there is no precedent and there is no past history of allowing public comment at a special meeting ever of this Council of order something hasn't been done before I didn't doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do it I'm gonna and gone I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to refrain [Applause] e I'm I'm gonna ask yes let's

108cut I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to stop yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to stop and I appreciate that thank you I'm I'm gonna ask you to stop thank you counselor Toronto I actually think I know what you're talking about with last week with the Staffing question um it was it was a little unclear and and the chief was using the term like we don't have the bodies is that what you mean like we don't have the Staffing we don't have the bodies I asked the question if you were to have a million dollars right now would you be able to staff and you said I don't there's nobody out there it would take a it was like this long time it was going to take to whether or not it would even

109be staffed before the end of the year I'm not sure I'm I'm I'm asking you to stop or I'm going to ask to have you removed thanks um I believe I referenced that we had a couple part-time special type of they weren't interested I have to be honest they weren't interested prior to this the the talks have happened I and again I'm like I said earlier I'm not guaranteeing they're going to say yes I have two people that fit qualifications that we've that we've trained now again I we've had preliminary talks that this grant might be here I have no guarantee from them but I also don't have a guarantee that I have the grant so I haven't said to them you have a job offer no I am hopeful that the conversations that have

110happened that both would want to come here I can't guarantee that but we do have two viable train people but but again I haven't I don't have any positions for them yet and I haven't made any job offer yet we would still be putting out onto our application site for to fill those those spots because again we may not have those two they may not say yes and I can't guarantee you that if we have somebody that is completely never worked in law enforcement before we are looking at a year between training I mean they'd have to go to an academy six month Academy I don't know when they're running we probably wouldn't do what we do in the past because there is no Reserve Academy anymore for for certain levels I think we're in

111year three now or year two where if you didn't bridge in year one you're now not eligible if you didn't go through bridge in year two you're not going to be eligible bridge two ends this year so we're going into Bridge three if we don't have somebody that's viable to work right now technically we can't put them on full time without either Bridge certification or an academy so we could work them on a part-time but they wouldn't fulfill the grant position or a full-time position with us by by definition anymore due to police reform that's all that's all I mean by it's not tomorrow unless we have three people that are Academy trained ready to ready to go that'd be great so it it sounds like there was already this this um combination of as

112you were saying having been on the Reserve officer trained by us right and then having their special officers we don't have reserves anymore we're not Civil Service okay but they they had come on they had been trained they've gone through our fto program okay so that that is is this by some sort of waiver that this is happening or is that or is this a normal process that should have been allowed all along and this came with police reform in the Bridge Academy where they where they took trainings uh from other so that you have a Reserve Academy you used to have to go regardless if you had the Reserve Academy you had to go to the full-time Academy right what they did was is they said if you have X amount of hours working

113in a law enforcement capacity that you could petition to have those hours qualify you for at least the hours of worked then you need to be Firearms trained CPR all the all the major categories legal all of that as well and if you could if you complete all that then you can get a waiver to say you don't need to go to a full-time Academy and that's what that's what's called The Bridge Academy okay um when the police reform came in they did it by alphabet and so a through h needed to be bridged in year one they had to start the bridge process and be complete in year one and then H through I think it's p I'm not sure and then all the way through the end of the alphabet near three okay

114so if you were in the end of the alphabet you had three years to before you had to complete it okay and I believe we're entering year three July 1. Okay so it's like going away in the future in theory if every as soon as we get through the whole alphabet right now there shouldn't be any more Bridge right and then the new series would be going to the full-time Police Academy all the time all the time that's they just we there's a new police academy opened up in Holyoke they're going to try to run more classes because that was the issue because we couldn't run enough classes to get people certified I mean sure could be hires somebody they're hiring 20 and they're taking up 20 seats and a 40 person class right so

115Springfield in Worcester are the only two around here that run their own own academies for their own officers everybody else shares okay so that's okay it's helpful to know why what what again when what the difference is you know it it's almost that old saying like where there's a will there's a way like there there were options out there you know um and again it's it's not it's not for the sake of stirring up anything again it's it's more to I don't know use that as a lesson of um a foresight um and and and along with the presentation of information is um like I said when we left last week it sounded like it didn't matter if we gave if we had a financial order to give you half a million dollars you wouldn't

116have been able to do anything and there were no options and and that that's what I meant by the like Doom and Gloom that I was talking about and so this is a lot more constructive to get real answers rather than um yeah president yes I don't want to interrupt counselor terenzo if he's done yeah if I may um respond briefly to the dropped ball comment um back in the spring I believe it was deputy chief Gordon then acting chief when he came before the council he mentioned different options that could occur down the road but that we also planned to fully staffed the department for as long as we could with the money that we had that was the plan presented knowing that we had attrition coming down the pike to some degree that

117would help us extend that time frame so that is the plan that was put into place rightly or wrongly at the time but it did serve the purpose of getting us through the spring the summer and the early fall to the point that we're at now we would not have come to you with a financial order much before now as it is uh it's just generally not done until we know I mean that Financial order for a supplemental budget might not just include the police department it might include other departments uh at this point in time but it would not have come in in September or October it probably wouldn't have come even until probably about right now in the meantime we have the Grant and um while I appreciate your concerns meanwhile we also

118had the grant which looks like a very promising way to begin to restore the police Staffing in a way that it's paid for under the Grant and not through the general fund or through the Opera you know asking you for more money uh we're not saying that we won't come to you uh before too long with a supplemental request but what we're saying is this is the plan that we have in place that we believe we can afford in a variety of ways so I guess the bottom line is at the end of the day uh your 11 to 7 shift is primarily fully staffed all but four hours and I think the chief gave you the ins and outs of how those four hours would get handled so just just wanting to make sure

119that that was clear councilor 4G is next okay I came here this evening hoping that well expecting actually that we would be sitting here discussing the plan um and I do have questions specific to that I understand everybody's frustration at this point I will ask my questions about the plan first and then I would appreciate an opportunity to speak after my questions if that's okay with everybody my question is to the Chief and I'd really like to understand a little bit more why three to seven a.m cannot be funded or cannot be covered thank you to do that it would have been 12-hour shifts which was not part of the negotiations unfortunately the unions both worked with me very voluntarily I didn't twist any arms this was the best plan that all of us could

120come up with for that time frame I don't think the 12s would have flown I gotta be honest with you I don't think they would have I think this was financially and schedule wise the best plan we could come up with um prior to this as you heard last week and I understand frustrating I'm not I'm not here to defend anything like that but um they were on board with the other plan as well so this was something we went back to immediately I started uh texting uh my folks uh sitting behind the mirror as soon as I went back to my seat um I'll be honest with you I got inspired by I'll give councilor lapianski my inspiration because when I heard the 1.5 million dollar number going out for the teachers to say

121hey just come to us with money we'll we'll do it I was like well I'm gonna try to figure something out then um so so I I went I went back and and again I'm not I made an offer to these groups to say can we sit down and talk and figure something out and I went back to work and I was texting at the wee hours of the morning and I just that was what we came to an agreement with with the unions um I don't know how to staff that with overtime for 4-Hour blocks I I don't think it would happen I don't I don't think I'm gonna have it now we're still going to have overtime gaps again I I'm more than willing to bring people in if we have emergencies for

122that but this was an agreement made yes very quickly but I don't think it would have happened if last week didn't happen and I'm sorry for that but but I don't think that would have happened and to have two groups um come to me with ideas as well as me going to them with ideas and and coming to this for for what we feel is the best we can offer right now that's all I can say about that schedule thank you um a couple of follow-ups on that if I may um I have to say that personally I'm not really happy with that three to seven Gap I'm really not interested in having the State Police in Greenfield um I want to know how fluid this plan is I.E example um if we start to

123run this and this is really unacceptable it's not working out are we back to the drawing board on all of it on part of it I guess I want to know how fluid it is and what options are out there for this plan if it does not work oh well I'm certainly not going to try to make the same mistakes twice so the uh the conversations are have already started on how it would look if we could potentially have additional bodies on quicker rather than later what would it look if we manipulate some positions around on shorter terms because as we close you know if we get a couple more in and we start closing closer to that June 30th deadline we know that maybe the budget is potentially you know through the budget season

124it's looking better if we come back to you in two months because we have people in place and maybe it's going to cost some more overtime to fill those gaps that's why we left it very open-ended in that agreement that it's not a it's a June 30th deadline as far as temporary but if we can fix this before that we want to fix it before that again it's getting people here that are ready to roll to work and I think we can start readdressing that I'm willing and and so are some of the officers in positions that we could shift around temporarily to do that if we have additional bodies to make it happen but we'll also probably have to come back to you for some additional funding now whether or not that's in arpa

125money that we're not going to use because we can get rid of that this this deal that's in place um that's possible too um but I'm going to continue talking about all this now in hopes that as things change and if the grant gets accepted you know next month whenever it's whenever it goes before you then I'll have a better idea if I can make offers to certain people I mean I we're not inclined to just offer the the people the jobs that are here I hate to say that we have to put it out you know we want to see what candidates that are out there that apply and there's no offense to the folks that are with me but they're not they're not full-time Greenfield officers they're they're specials just like you know

126specials we've had before that have worked out great years ago when we went out of civil service for them um but I think we need to put it out to see what applicant pool that we have I'm hopeful that we we have some good applicants to come in um but I think the quicker we get people in the faster this plan goes away and I think we need to start talking about that now and how it's going to look and when we're going to when we're going to do that as we get bodies in the building I wonder if you would consider um if this is a thought thinking off the top of my head I wonder if you would consider having one Greenfield police officer on duty three to seven whoever that person is

127via an overtime piece to be in the station and the reason that I ask that is that we have other emergency services that have to roll and there is lag time when you're doing callbacks into the into the station um I'm concerned about those others actually I know that in your uh previous presentation you said the lobby would be open for DB victims um and uh would be opened up for DB victims or if you want to trap a baby off I'm thinking of the dispatchers that are in-house without anybody else being there I'm also thinking of our other Emergency Services you know a car accident a house fire but what if you have a uh shots fired or uh somebody responding to a mental health crisis or a DV issue without a quick response

128time so I wonder if there's any possibility that that peace could be filled in with someone so that there is law enforcement present a local law enforcement piece and you don't have to answer me this is just this is just a thought that I have it would make me feel personally it would make me feel much better to know that our employees that are also working those shifts as well have coverage and back up from the PD we have been talking about that okay we actually talked about that when we were talking about this original plan that we didn't like um there's some challenges but I will bring this back and again we'll be continuing to to talk so I I understand because I I don't like the idea of dispatchers being in our building

129uh without somebody to call in an emergency I talked to Chief Strahan about this as well um as far as you know the potential of what we would ask from them so yes these conversations are happening and they will continue and I appreciate bringing that up because it's very true thank you my final piece actually I have to say that this is my perspective um we had a jury verdict that was handed down at the same time that that verdict was handed down we were in the process of putting together a 23 budget and adjust by the the draw of the cards that just happened to be the police department that evening I think the council and the citizens in Greenfield quite honestly were very upset with the mayor for not taking immediate action to

130solve the problem with Chief Higg and I mean this all respectfully this is my view this is my view on everything and as a result of that the council took action in regard to the funding and we did cut the budget or defund that's another uh adjective that could be used at this particular time the police department budget right now uh I feel very strongly that the council needs to as much as they possibly can rise to the occasion and take the lead on putting these pieces together and filling the gaps that exist right now um what has happened to us as a result of the budget cuts is that we are down six people that is what has happened to us budget cuts or attrition we're down if that was the intention of sweeping

131out the police department and getting new blood in there I think that has been or will we will be on the road to doing that so I don't think we should sit back and think that it's a them against us who's right and who's wrong put emotions aside at this point and move forward so this is where the council finds itself now we have a crisis we have to solve this problem a plan has come forward I think it's a good start I wish it had happened earlier I really do I heard counselors talk about the charter and bringing forward supplemental budgets and I think that there was a real uh drop of the ball lack of communication not getting the job done that we needed to get to to get to quite a while

132ago if we're going to make this work and I believe we can make this work it's really got to be more than a matter of money and more than a matter of funding councilor Bullock mentioned that there are some things we'd like to see happen I think they're within our reach I think that we have Public Safety commission that's coming back on board I think that meetings where we overlap and communicate those are the ways we solve our problems I also think that we do have policies and procedures in place right now uh within all the Departments and within the city of Greenfield they may not be working well maybe it's incumbent upon us to figure out what we'd like to see happen as part of police reform and work toward that funding as Marianne

133Bullock was mentioning before it's a hard journey it's been terrible it's it and it has been heartbreaking but I do think we have to put aside the emotional piece at this point get the safety of the citizens put first and foremost hold your nose if you have to tighten your belt if you have to whatever it is that you need to do do it we're the ones that can make it happen at this point and it goes back to money and as Council appianski once said at one of our meetings we have the money the money can be given or the money can be withheld and that's really the source of this Council money policy procedures we can ask for that and we could ask for everybody's cooperation to get it done but we got

134to get it done that was the purpose of this meeting was to listen to this plan coming forward um and like I said I think it's a good start but I think there are pieces that we have to work on and we don't have the luxury of time and we don't have the luxury of personal feelings we just need to get the job done thank you very much councilor Ricketts thank you I'll try to keep this brief because I want Council Bullock to keep a promise and get home by eight o'clock so first of all I like everything that you just said counselor Forge I think it's important I do want to thank the public safety commission for being here so you see what's going to be happening in your future and the questions and

135things that will be coming toward you so I'm there I'm I'm here for your support 100 and I agree you know this is checks and balances government and so for us to sit here and just keep going over and over the same old thing we're not getting anywhere with that we really do have to move forward so thank you for the plan I'm glad that it's starting very selfishly I'm glad that it's starting right now because winter Carnival's before us and we have every town in this County comes to Greenfield for winter carnival for the ice sculptures for the beacon field for everything that's going on it's important that we have our police impact and jpeg when you said no you brought this forward and you're sorry about the way that happened thank you very

136much for the apology it meant a lot it really meant a lot and I just want to say that whatever I'm willing to sit down with anyone any bodies so that we just keep going and we keep compromising and working this out I don't care how fast this happened I think I'm just happy it did happen we're very lucky to have the offices that we have and how devoted they are I do have one question some people have recently retired and I wondered if they could come back on the forest I'm not naming names but there's one I do not want to come back at all but can they come back and help because they're fully trained and it's out of my purview and I'm not going to say yes or no about anything but

137I just wanted to bring that up if it's a possibility we have two possibilities so it's been broached okay and just be very careful can I say that with you understanding um but but the simple answer is unfortunately when they retire now I'm not saying that this isn't the case for for a couple you may have they have to still maintain their their certification it's not as easy as just being trained okay um that's that's kind of what happens these days as soon as you go away but uh we have kicked around a couple of different things um and uh we will continue to do it may be different for police than other people but as you have seen we have had a Finance director former Finance director Liz Gilman with us on this ride

138since she retired there's a certain number of hours that they can work legally as I say it may be different for Public Safety people and I didn't really ask that question to the chief but you know it's a possibility it's always a possibility to bring back good people good good people yes okay and it's very important but again thank you and I'm cutting this short because this is only supposed to be about the proposal you brought today and I'm thank you for this I thank you for all this information I hope that we can move forward and I look forward for the next couple months of whatever you're going to bring forward to us we have a big budget season ahead of us just in general and I know how tight money is but there's

139lots going on in our downtown everything is starting to happen for the good and so we really do need the police so thank you for whatever you can do to keep everything going thank you councilor Healey actually a lot of the stuff I wanted to touch on was touched on by councilor 4G and councilor Ricketts but um I will leave it off with I just want to thank our officers I think um coming up with this agreement in short time after being dragged through the mud really shows their commitment and dedication to the city and I want them to know we appreciate them thank you thank you um is there any counselor that has not spoken this evening that would like to speak before I um allow follow-ups counselor bottomly yeah I just want to

140hit on a couple points um our primary role is oversight and my experience in the three years that I've been here is that the department heads are incredible they provide us with extreme amounts of information everyone can attest to that who listens to director Warner and all the information for DPW we usually get this weeks if not months in advance we get this several meetings in advance and Ways and Means and city council there were comments made about the police cuts that we made caused this problem I don't believe that but you know what whether it's councilor 4G and I differing in our opinion we have no way to check it because we weren't given any information uh especially the encumbrance numbers we actually don't know how those that that's uh 1.2 million we don't

141know how that's determined we have no way to determine it because no one has shown us any documents no one has talked to us we don't know how many positions there have they included the positions that have left the new positions there are line items like Communications parking dispatch that can transfer between the department we don't have any of that information of what's left to determine if it was indeed our cut or if there's room somewhere else now I trust you that you have looked at this but our role is oversight so that means we have to look at the numbers and we decide because we're a check on the executive branch and as far as being a check I just have to say there is no excuse for two weeks notice there's no excuse

142for that we all know that government works slowly we have plenty of times to review things every other department has given us reams of information to review and yet we get like a teeny little blurb we get something out of the night of I know it's a crisis but I believe we we need to do better going forward and that's what I worry about because we're talking about rehashing the past because we have budget season coming I don't want another stunt another scare tactic coming at us and I want the information that we can look at if you're telling us the truth it's going to be awesome because we'll agree it'll make it a lot easier um and I just one last thing there's also a big cloud still hanging over us and and that's

143the chief's post certification I don't know if you've heard anything on that that's hanging over all of us [Applause] is that a question the post is that is that a question uh no any other counselors that have not spoken foreign all right there were there was who does counselor alvare yes I would like Marianne to get to go home too so I'll keep it short I just I appreciate that we're in such a better place today than we were a week ago and I want to thank everybody who did the work to get us here thank you I I am going to um continue the the questioning but by policy we have to take a five minute break right now um if if any counselor feels like they have to leave at this point in

144time and wants to join us remotely we can but we are going to take a five-minute recess and we will return in five minutes do you know [Music] foreign all of the counselors have spoken to this we have not heard um we've heard from all the department heads which I asked to be here this evening um and we have our Public Safety commission present also um if any counselors had anything along those lines I will open the floor going forward to additional questions please what I'd like to do is ask questions that we can get answers to tonight and then ask questions that need follow-up but in a way that we can get them to direct their return I'm a chief of staff Letourneau or uh Finance director you know that's what that's what we

145need councilor Gilmore I have a question that I know can't be answered tonight so I'm gonna but I want to verify because you just outlined a new procedure so we're going to send the question to you and then counts uh copy and uh vice president 4G in case you get hit by a bus or something and then you're going to track it for it how you want me to do this tomorrow you are gonna just do everything you're gonna send you have a question to a director or a yeah you you can ask a question on the floor if you'd like but all I'm saying is at this point in time copy uh the council uh President and Vice President the Clerk and the department head and the chief of staff to make sure that

146she's aware and we're aware of the request so it can be tracked to make sure that nothing is falling through and um councilor Bullock uh and I had a conversation moment ago about a a piece of Google software that she has that she can track that memo that goes to Kathy and that will be once again that's what working together is about so thank you counselor so that's that would be the procedure at this point not not much different than we done have done in the past and a counselor disorder has been doing since I sat next to her um in copying multiple people I just want I want if if Danny knows it happened I want to know we know it happened and then I want to answer as to why we're not receiving

147it or where we're missing it if it falls through that's the only reason for that um we have some people that had additional questions um counselor Mayo did did you have a follow-up question no I'll forward that question and in in to expedite things thank you councilor Mayo uh councilor Lapinski did you have a follow-up question well I I guess I first have to ask uh why did the chief bail on us we had more questions for him does anybody know where he went I was actually also going to leave at eight when we set up this meeting and we've we're all having a conversation during the break and I told him to go and I decided to say so I told him he could go okay I thought yeah um I'm gonna I have

148a couple of questions for uh Danny and the mayor but I have a question for you president Gwen um I I'm imagining our questions are going to wrap up fairly soon we don't have anything else on the agenda correct um would you be opposed to allowing public comment at the end so those who want to leave can leave and those who want to hear from the public and stay yeah it's it wasn't listed in the agenda I'm I'm not prepared to change the agenda for a special meeting okay so let it be noted that the chair does not want to hear from the public even if he does not have to stay for it um mayor I guess I really have one question remaining because my other questions were for the chief and I no

149longer ask him those questions um in in this meeting of course I can ask him the questions um you you recognize that the makeup of this council is such that there's a decent chance there will be another budget cut this year so it won't be a surprise this time if it happens it might not happen I can't tell you who's going to vote for what um I'm dying to know what the chief said I gave him an idea for but anyway uh have you started planning in advance for that potential in a way that could avoid this kind of situation let's call it I am currently working on both the operating budget and we're at the stage where I each department had is coming before me to give me their budgets and their justification for

150it I'm also working on the capital budget so yes that process has begun yes I am um meeting with department heads and I have met with the chief and he is bringing forward a budget that fully staffs the department understanding that we have now had contractual agreements that are going to cause that budget to increase to to a certain extent the way the budget process works is I all departments including my own get guidelines from the finance director because Liz started that process our guidelines have come from her um when all the bud budgets have they've all been entered into munis but there are some changes that occur as a result of the conversations that I have with each department head if you want me to continue to answer this question and you're listening I'll

151be happy to continue so what happens is eventually we have a directive from the finance director that says okay all budgets are in all meetings have been held it's time to roll the budget so to speak in other words that is to lock it in with any changes that you've made in the interim at a certain point in time so that we can begin the process of bringing the budget forward so I can't anticipate any better than that what this Council will do but I think we've and certainly vice president 4G spoke to it very eloquently this evening and I appreciate that is um you know we we have come before we're forward to you with with a plan uh it is dependent on uh the potential for additional financing but we think we can

152do it it will carry us through to June 30th we should have a budget by July 1 and I think I ended my conversation my comments to you this evening that we will be looking forward to working with you to um come back to to achieve a budget for the police department in particular that uh fully staffs the police department I know that councilor Bullock wants to send us some information and until I see it I won't know if it's additional money or uh or if it's a little bit uh more General than that and then we have to think about the fact that we can't exceed the Levee ceiling without going to a two and a half override so that is a discussion that we tend to have ahead of time so that we

153can present you with a balanced budget that prevents us from having to go to an override unless there's some extraordinary reason why we have to end the citizens of Greenfield may feel like funding Public Safety funding the schools may may require that but but what we try to do as a good financial management position is um come to you with a balanced budget that may have already been cut from last year's police budget I had cut a hundred and thirty thousand dollars from it by the time I'd come to you so um that's all I can say yes we're planning in advance but I won't know until we come to the meeting in May what what might be happening so we're going to do our best to bring you a balanced budget overall with the

154increases that are required in each department and primarily most of them are contractual or the result of increased prices specifically sort of my question was no that is ultimately what you're saying correct no you are not making an alternate plan that is not what I said at all so you did say you cannot anticipate what we'll do and it seems as though you are just going to present the number that you want without having an alternative backup plan if we were to make the same kind of cut again um I did have uh one other question for the chief I'm just going to briefly make it in the form of a statement which is that I noticed a big difference in his demeanor between that last week and this week what I wanted to ask

155him was what caused the change uh Danny you know the answer to that I think it was vice president forging in his conversation and hearing from the public and hearing from you guys but it he's a human being and I think that really hearing from people and hearing from councilor 4G and hearing somebody he's worked with when she was the mayor and and previously sure well I mean I'm speaking for him and he's not here but I know I I was in some of these conversations I would agree with that I have not made myself known to be a fan of the chief but I do appreciate that shift it's at least a step in the right direction even if I'm of the opinion that he's probably not capable of redeeming himself in the eyes

156of the public at this point I think people on the council and others in the community who have met with him personally one-on-one on this issue and others know him to be the person that you saw here this evening but he does operate as Danny says as a human being under a great deal of stress and has had to handle you know the issues of his police department but yes I think you saw what I know to be um Chief Strahan I mean I'm sorry Chief Hank having worked with he and chief stray and several others very closely during the early days of the pandemic so I think what you see is generally somebody who cares very much about the community and wants to be cooperative but also cares very much about the work that

157his people do and the rules under which they have to work thank you um I have a couple questions um before we go to I didn't ask any questions really it made a couple of statements um I have one question that um one of the counselors and I I'm sorry I don't remember which one of you was but um brought up last week and when you asked about a public safety commission and then we were told that they hadn't met in a long period of time and then during the week um it was addressed again to me when why aren't we having a public safety commission according to Charter whose duty is it to call a public safety commission is it the public safety commission that calls the public safety commission or is it the

158mayor that calls the public safety commission or is it some other oversight I'm missing well you are asking a an interesting and multi-layered question because we have now just this week I mean I received it over the weekend had another resignation so right now we have a public safety Commission of three I have communicated with them that they do need to meet very soon to reorganize um so and I am receiving applications for additional or letters of Interest I guess is the way it is uh for addition people who are stepping up specifically for the public safety Commission um so um I I feel like somewhere between next month and maybe March there will be a full five member Public Safety commission But to answer your question um I think at this point I've expect

159I have expressed to uh Rick Clark Fred Clark and um The Davids David lenoy and David moscaratolo that I would like for them to meet if nothing more than to reorganize and choose at least a chair and a vice chair so that then there will be some leadership and and do they work as an independent body where they can call their own meetings they don't need permission to meet they oh absolutely not you know the normal process if I call if I recall correctly um is that they met on the fourth Wednesday of mem of everyone of every month maybe the third Wednesday there is it and they're all it's not in the charter that they shall meet uh the third Wednesday of every month but they agree on that and this typically has to

160do with what each member's schedules are like some people have commitments on Wednesday evenings so they work that out so this may be it may be different going forward and and I appreciate that I just monthly as a general rule unless they don't have any reason to meet we were um we had a very uh great presentation when we um spoke to [Music] um David lanoy when he asked to be considered for that and I think you know would respond to that that it was it was thorough and it was his uh information on the subjects that this community is broaching right now um is so in depth and so Superior to just about anyone I've spoken to on a lot of the concerns we have that we just need to we need to tap

161into these these gentlemen that we that we are here and get them they're wanting to come to work for us we just got to get them on the job we got to get these you know we some of you are not happy with our current um way that we have a public safety commission but right now that's what the charter says that's what we're doing that's what you filled and then we're trying to fill it back up we just need to implement what we have right now because we we've got some some really good people that we need to to step forward now you had a competent very competent chair of the Public Safety Committee in Butch Hawkins but for reasons actually associated with the charter he had to step down at that point that

162left the vice chair and the rest of the committee uh to have meetings and I don't recall if they've had any since then I think maybe one or at least one but um I think I'm asking you to give us a moment nobody wants to have that Public Safety Committee together than I do so just remember that when I bring those uh appointments before you and I I think I'll certainly have one for February and most likely another one in March gentlemen you're both here tonight you sat through the meeting would you like to take a minute and and talk to the counselors or uh you know add anything to tonight's discussion I'm not I don't mean to put either one of you on the spot but you are my guests and I want to

163make sure that I recognize that you were here and you both are our new members of that um group and I want to say uh David do you want you just have to use the microphone I'm sorry yeah hi oh yeah sorry that's the wild mic um my name is David moscar atolo and first I want to say that I apologize that I couldn't have been here during the review process I had some family personal issues that I've been dealing with as far as a caretaker and um but I would like to say that we have called a meeting for when an organizational meeting I believe it's this Wednesday um for for a walk to to start the organizational process um you're late for this Wednesday you mean next Wednesday yes next one next Wednesday

164yes next Wednesday I apologize 48 Hours yes and the agenda will be put and the agenda will be posted um for that meeting um but what I wanted to say because some of you know me um and some of you don't know me um but I I've been studying quite a lot and what I wanted to say is I can't speak for the rest of the commission but I can speak for myself and when I've looked at the responsibilities and I've been listening to everything that's been going on the last six or so months um some of my priorities um being on this commission and I wrote them down are um to review the process for appointments and promotions is it working is it not working I think that's really important so for you the

165written complaint process I think that's really important so we could gain trust in the community is the written process now working and not working I don't know the answers to these questions I haven't seen the processes review the discipline process is that working or not working um and you know talking about a vision for the Fire and Police Department do we have a vision and does the vision include the employees of the Departments Does it include the public and it doesn't include the administration these are just my thoughts they're not the commission's thoughts um and you know I want to understand the regional policing policy a lot more I think that's important and also I want to learn from the past events good bad or ugly I think we need to look at them and

166we need to talk about them and we need to move forward so these are my personal thoughts being on the commission so again I apologize for not being here during the course of the interviews um but I do you have my personal views on lots of things like we all do um but I take this position very seriously and um I appreciate the support and I appreciate Consular Ricketts for saying that she because of my past history she has trust in me and that I won't let any Rock be unturned and I will ask the hard questions I've asked the hard questions on the fire station building committee and I will continue to ask the hard questions for the Greenfield residents and I'm looking forward to next Wednesday's meeting where we we reorganize so thank

167you for your time thank you commissioner and and just be it known that um it's not necessarily policy that people come to ano and make any presentation so your absence was not any any reflection on your your desire to be part of that commission and and my board with telling you that um commissioner uh lenoy would you like to seeing we open the microphone would you like to say a word thank you Mr President um I want to Echo what my colleague said about taking seriously what the charter says and uh I may be a little long in the tooth as I said when I addressed you previously or when I thank you for your unanimous vote um I participated in that Charter and the public safety commission was born of the necessity for professional

168objective oversight of two most of the most important elements of the governance of a community police and fire um and I don't want to reiterate what I've done because you all know what I hope to be able to do is provide information to you in real time that's fact-based with history um in my current capacities I've written extensive analyzes of the police Reform Bill evidence-based policing budgeting and so it is incumbent upon us as a community as I've heard tonight and I've talked to many of you individually for us to work together and the way that we do that is to be able to provide you with information not so you'll think a certain way or vote a certain way um provide you with information provide you with back background and I hope to be

169able to do that and I'm willing to do that at any juncture at any time at any place we're in an unfortunate situation where I I don't recall Public Safety meetings happening during this period of difficulty in this community that's when they should have happened the most so I've been sworn and I learned that we can call our own meetings and so I took took the ball by the horns on that and I'm working with David and commissioner Clark to make that happen so we'll have a reorganizational meeting hopefully this coming Wednesday and then we'll go to work to be in compliance with the charter I know there was discussion about the budget tonight and department heads going before the mayor with respect to the fire and police they go before the mayor and the

170commission and so we'll be directly involved in that and I know everybody wants to go home um it's it's a pleasure to serve with you it's a pleasure to serve our community I am hopeful that we can engage in dispassionate productive conversations about what we need to do to provide good governance and confidence in what every citizen has the right to expect local government is where the rubber hits the road so I look forward to being with you on those things and respectfully agreeing to disagree from time to time with civil Civility and forbearance and mutual respect thank you councilor Bullock uh I'm gonna motion to adjourn so can Catherine go first I I we oh sorry I read I read the order wrong no that's right um I wait I don't want a stifle

171debate but I also am just we were here to discuss this plan and we have veered which I appreciate these conversations need to happen and we also have a public safety commission meeting we now go to on Wednesday we have a city council meeting that will allow public comment that coming up in two weeks um councilor Bullock thank you for that statement what I will do is I'll entertain questions on this plan um an undebatable motion it has nothing no no motion yet right I actually didn't make a full motion I was more just sharing she made a statement that's why I'm sorry counselor healing um so I'll I'll request that and and if we could everyone's gotten a chance to speak once and if we can ask a question about the plan and then

172we can uh follow on the next one because if someone makes the motion to adjourn once I've recognized them then we're going to follow a procedure um councilor Golem I will keep this under one minute it is adjacent to the plan um and where I will try to make I'll I will keep this as quickly as short as I can I I am very aware that we're about to go into budget season and that's why I'm making this this comment I hear I thank you counselor 4G for naming the jury verdict and I hear the desire to move forward I also have the desire to move forward but I think it's very important that the issues that what happened last May the issues that led to the budget cuts haven't yet been addressed and I'm

173sitting here with my heart racing worried about the next four months and the with a lot of concern um about what's what's to come uh we can't just move forward without change and so this is not a question to be addressed right now because we all need to go home but the question is what are you doing to address the systemic racism in our police department and the fact that we continue to have a police chief who was found liable for racial discrimination animus and retaliation if we don't address this in the next four months I'm very concerned about what is going to happen in in May and it feels very important to say right now because the plan has is in response to the cuts that happened last May and yeah something's going to

174need to happen in order to not have a repeat um we could ask questions about the plan before us counselor forgey my question was not about the plan before us okay is is it a question comment um Council bodily sorry mine is a comment too so I don't know if yeah and I'll go first with my comments does anyone have any questions about this plan about the plan that was put in front of us today does anyone have any questions to the Commissioners that just spoke to you because they're here for us I had a question for director um uh for yeah for um Chief of Staff thank you I need Marianne with me at all times um uh we Chief of Staff will turn out we this has to do with this plan kind

175of um hiring process which we spoke on before I had asked you a question quickly like what are we going to do differently this time than we did last time when we're bringing people on to fill these spots so that question to me is important what you know and it kind of goes with counselor golb's question is what are we going to do different this time in our hiring process that we did last if we've been following procedure and it and it might with a new safety commission um a public safety commission there might be a stronger piece but what is that so I'm sorry that I was sitting I'm exhausted I'm not trying oh that's right we're about attitude we're about wrapped up but I I just I had started this question and I

176think it Bears interesting so I have an answer as well so I'll let Danny yeah so um starting in around 2019 and 2020 a number of changes were made to the hiring process and some of the really Progressive and interesting things that have been talked about we got out of civil service we went to this outside organization for hiring um started using the application process that's different um a different way of doing the interviews that all started and that's been happening so this is probably not a satisfactory answer but I think without saying names we all know what we're talking about with certain individuals if you look and look at hiring dates and dates when people started we have started doing that back the city we being the city I mean we as individuals here

177weren't here then but so I think some of that has been happening and I know that um you know the mayor has some more information on this about other ways to keep going forward and including the public safety commission more differently so the answer is what are we going to do differently well probably not I mean we are learning and changing now but we have already started doing things differently um both before the May verdict and as a result of the filing of the lawsuit several years prior to that and then the mayor has more to add I asked that very question of the chi of the police chief so I'm sorry he isn't here this evening because he could give you chapter and verse which I am I don't want to interrupt you but

178maybe that could be my fault when I originally set up the the plan for tonight I thought we were going to go into the financial piece after the initial thought and I had told him that he didn't have to stay through the financial piece that I thought it would be fine so it could have been me kind of stepping on you for a change again he was texting that oh no I thought they were talking about finances yeah and that's what he said to me but that aside I asked that very question to him primarily around the promotional process because that is really what we're talking about and he he has come I wouldn't say completely revamped it but he has a new way of handling the promotion process so I'm sorry that he um

179isn't here to at least give you that information and I suspect if the commission the public safety commission wanted to hear about that at some point in the near future he would be more than happy to answer that question for them and thereby for the community but I do know that he has talked about how it will be different going forward and I or it urged him actually in May to begin to think about that so he has now I have to add just a little bit and this is probably more in the last week since last week's meeting that I know that this group of people who've been sitting up here we are committed to saying like I'm not going to say we've done X Y and Z and that's all we're doing I

180think we've all committed to saying we're going to keep learning and keep changing and relating and be willing to adjust and adapt based on the community that was like the takeaway a huge takeaway that you know Woulda Coulda Shoulda maybe it should have happened in May or June or July but it didn't and it happened like I said I'm exhausted because all week we've been we've all been talking about this and it's good because now it's like a um a willingness to be open to changing and adapting and pivoting when we need to so that's kind of the answer thank you um I councilor Healy did you have anything counselor bottomly was a question quick question I don't know if this relates to the plan but you're talking about being open to new ways would

181you be open to Bringing Daniel yalevich back on the Human Rights Commission that is not a subject for this meeting tonight that's not an answer Council Bullock I'd like to make a motion to adjourn second motion's been made and seconded any discussion not debatable all those in favor any opposed any abstentions seeing none the meeting is adjourned at 8 45 PM I'd like to thank all of you for a productive meeting and I thank you for being here this evening [Music]