001Um so we are our goals for this workshop are to kind of have a postmortem debrief about the entire um elementary school project which an hour I think is short but also um we're in the middle of two community conversations where a lot of info is being held. So I think we're going to have a lot to work with. So Dana had sent out an email asking everybody to think about what went well, what didn't go well, and what questions do we have. So I feel like a good format might be to just because we're small, just to go around and kind of talk about each question um in that order. And I'll just keep an eye on the time and just keep an eye on the focus and just interrupt if we kind of
002get off track or if we are spending too much time on a question. >> Okay. I just have a question but I don't know I because I wasn't able to attend because of the late start and it's no one's fault. Um did anyone go? What happened? Maybe like the top three highlight. >> Sure. So interestingly it was the three of us who were there. Well there's another one on the 29th of that. >> Yeah. There was so and it was I mean I don't it was extremely well attended. It was wonderful especially given that it was like an horrible icy day. Um, so I mean I don't know if is that helpful if we start with just kind of our I mean that's Do you want to share what your impressions were of the >>
003I thought the turnout was great. >> Um I thought it was everybody was really actively engaged, collaborative. I think there were a lot of good suggestions. I think it was good to hear directly from the community in that forum. I don't think that there any at least in terms of things that were said out loud. I don't think there was any big surprises, but there were portions of the workshop where people submitted ideas and other things in writing and that data is still being gathered because it'll be one more workshop. So, I'll be curious to see >> any like final reporting from Eric about like the final kind of amalgamation of all that data. Um, but I thought it was really it was really great. So I mean >> it was it was in informative
004I would say too. >> Was it like a was it like a back and forth? Was it just people talking asking? was you were in small table groups so there was a like discussion and at least I can't you it would be interesting like my table had a diversity of opinion and I don't know if yours both did also but that was helpful >> like um and I did speak to someone that I um know a little bit and she said the same thing that her table group was very diverse in their opinions and that that was I wish I could frame it exactly how she said it but she said it nicely. She sort of said, "Well, I heard some ideas that I hadn't heard before from the other side, and I think they
005heard some things from me that they hadn't heard before." She was clear that she didn't feel like anyone changed their mind, but I she felt like so I felt like that was a good feedback >> that like that was good. And I would say that was true at the table I sat at as well. Um, but it really was just information gathering. like it was just gathering of tons of information. >> Did they ask those three questions that we're asking? >> No, it was really >> it was it was more >> more specific. I mean, Eric um used this format of this >> Six hats. Yeah. >> Um cool. >> Have you heard of that before? >> Yeah. And I don't want to take too much time and we and I'm guessing the other one
006will be a similar structure. So, um, but I think it just it was a great format for a couple reasons. One, because he asked us to have conversations as a table, but also was collecting individual answers, right? >> So, it gave people a chance to have a conversation, but also give their own answers. >> That's okay. There's no problem. >> Yeah. Um, so I I'm looking forward to seeing the data, but I really liked being able to speak to people face to face and have conversations because I think that is um I don't know, just kind of the best way to hear what people are saying. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Anyone else want to add anything? >> Thank you. Of course. >> Yeah. No, I hope that I hope that the turnout on the 29th
007is as good if if not better, but I mean it really was And it was recorded. So if you want to watch it, you can. >> As is this being recorded. >> Yes. Okay. I didn't I didn't Okay. >> Um Okay. >> Watch the recording. >> So let's talk a little bit about what went well >> with the last handful of years two and a half years, three years. >> Um and I'm I mean I'm interested in everybody's feedback. Kristen, I feel like your feedback I'm interested in because for a good chunk of that time you weren't on the committee, so you were >> all of that time, >> right? So, I mean, I'm like I said, I'm interested in what everybody has to say, but not to put you on the spot. You don't
008have to answer right away. >> Okay. So, >> but you Yeah. And so, I don't actually have the questions up, but the first question I want to talk about is what went wrong. Correct. Okay. So I actually think there there's always like room for improvement, right? And things that we can do differently and do better. I think by and large I think it was a very professional process in terms of the planning. And I will say that part of what informs my opinion on this is that I did go to a number of the presentations with the designer architect team that was held like at the high school auditorium. Um there was another gathering with the mother's club. Like I felt as though at least where the ways that I'm involved in the community that
009there were sufficient opportunities to be informed and to ask questions. I know other people don't feel that way that they were not aware of all these things or they weren't, you know, done in a way where they felt welcome or whatever it might be. But at least for the parts of the community where I've been engaged, I felt like there were sufficient opportunities to be engaged in the process. And I'm a wom resident, so I wasn't as in tune with the town information that Hamilton was producing, although I was somewhat aware of it. I was more paying attention to >> Winnham >> and I think the WM finance committee did a really good job with its financial analysis. And I felt as a onem resident that we were very fortunate to have all of those
010folks volunteering their time. >> Yes. >> In that way to do that because I know that committee is a big lift. Um so I felt that that was well thought out and they were very you know clear and thoughtful and clarifying where their numbers came from where there were assumptions were made and so on and so forth. So, I thought that the financial presentation was also well done because as we all know, like the town budgets include our district's budget, but also a lot of other things that the town, you know, wants to accomplish. So, I thought that was done well. I thought um the design of the school was thoughtful with the different learning neighborhoods and things like that. The elementary school that I attended was somewhat organized in that way, not as formally,
011but there were different parts of the building where you had the younger grades and the older grades. And my school was K through eight, and so the junior high was kind of in its own wing. And and I think like that to me made sense because that, you know, kind of dubtailed with the experience that I had. >> Um, and I also liked the idea of consolidating for a number of reasons. I mean, obviously financial, but also I think to make sure that all of the kids in the district are having a consistent experience, you know, and they're open to the same opportunities. Um, and I think also to kind of bring to really kind of foster community and all the kids knowing all the other kids in town that are their age, >> you
012know, because I know with my youngest kind of starting kindergarten this year, like some of his his best little buddy is at Cutler and he's at Buer and like they they're still friends. They can still see each other and things like that. But I think they're and they're also only in kindergarten. I understand like >> I have other children. Friendships change >> wildly after that time. But just in thinking like >> how nice it could be to have everybody together and for kids to have the opportunity to know more of their peers and to have a better chance of finding peers that they gel with and to give the teachers more options and creating home rooms and classes and things like that. So I did think all of that was >> were the positives. >>
013Okay. Great. >> In my own opinion. Thank you. I don't know. Excellent. >> Do anyone else want to go next? >> Sure. Um, so I'm gonna try to highlight I I agreed with a lot of what Kristen said, but I'm going to try to say things that are also different to me. Um, I when I looked at it, I thought, well, what went well? >> Um, part of it was just in terms of process that we met. In other words, we met all the um requirements, deadlines for the MSBA. like we >> the district it's a very complicated process and we were able to go through that process um effectively and I do want to reiterate I was actually on the call and it was a you know a call in which we were you
014know getting approved by the MSBA and the um one of the questioners on the voting board there spent a lot of time talking about the educational plan being one of the best that this group had ever seen. Um, and that it was highlighted by the MSBA. And I I I felt like that was really that's really a question of what did our district, the administration do well >> um to make make all those deadlines and go. So I and and to get to the point where the MSBA was >> Yeah. going to give us this much money. >> Um, so I think >> regardless of how people felt about the actual project, I just think it's important to see like our district was capable of managing something that's pretty complicated and doing it well. >>
015Um, so I thought that was something that went well. Um I um some of the things that Kristen highlighted I do did agree with. There were um I I actually think you cited it really well like that we had a lot of gatherings. We had opportunities for people to come. I attended visioning sessions and things that people were able to come. I'm really glad that they were there. I see when we get to what didn't go well, I'm going to say we see that some people didn't feel that they knew about those or they didn't participate, but they did exist and people did come and we did hear from people and that did happen. Um, I think that's important. Um, I'm so glad you said that about the Wenom Fincom because I had sort of
016I didn't have that on my list, but I have mentioned that to people several times that both FinComs actually did a really good job of explaining it and the Wenom FinCom in particular. Um there's a very very long complicated meeting in which they really explained the I really they did a tremendously good job. Um so um maybe I'll stop there but maybe I'll stop there but I um >> Yeah. >> Okay. You want to add anything? >> Yeah. I mean I don't I don't know what I would add. I really agree with the um W and fincom. I think that we did a lot of great work the quintuple boards together. Um I think that you know there was years of work um working with the towns on this project and also I was going
017to highlight the MS um the MSBA grant and what they said about it and how they said um that it was one of the best proposals they'd ever seen. Um, so in terms of what went well, I mean, if you're thinking about like the process and the vote, then I think those two things, but like the project, I was actually initially like very very initially kind of skeptical about it. And I it's interesting because I grew up in in Beverly with like giant elementary schools. >> Um, and now they're doing, you know, the middle school is um four grades, >> which I actually really agree with. But I do think like ha Eric having like an open door policy and talking to Eric and being going to the visionary sessions or learning more about um
018the school, then I actually became like a really big proponent of it because I really understood how it would contribute to equitable educational goals for all of the elementary school kids because >> I mean honestly right now I know we're doing the best that we can but it's there's desperate things going on amongst the three elementary schools and I think the parents see it and >> um are very aware of it and I think this would have >> contributed to a more equitable um educational outcomes for students but that's the project but I think yeah I also think you know it was it's a testament to us that I think that we were we had some really good debates at the school committee around it like nobody was just kind of like this was amazing
019like right from the start like we we asked really good questions. We had really great debate. Not we were not unanimous on a lot of things. >> Um and I think that's important for democracy and for >> discussion. So I I actually do think that went well. I would love us all to be unanimous but I think it's good when we're not. You know sometimes there's >> different perspectives that can be shared. >> Yeah. For sure. >> I can I add something? >> Yeah. No, but just I I I know that I and I think other people on the committee did share when they felt like I've shared a few times about how my original vision had been for the school to be located at Iron Rail. I had said I had this vision that
020like that would >> and I think other people shared when they had something that they envisioned >> that then you know we did the work to realize that that wasn't a possibility. I I I felt like that was good like when people because it was a difficult thing. There were pros and cons to a lot of different choices. I I guess I just process-wise like I think that was good when people were able to um like people talk about the the the things that they liked about the smaller schools and then being able to say I see that there's >> that's been addressed in the design, >> right? Or Yeah. Or I'm specifically talking about the committee like people being able to say like I >> you know I see this and I've it's been
021addressed. Oh and I'm you know sad about it but moving on or whatever. I just felt like there were >> There were times like that. So, >> um, anything else? >> Oh, something I do think also went well is that we had a lot of community engagement. Um, we had a, >> you know, we very rarely have a lot of citizens comments and >> we had a lot of citizens comments and a lot of citizen participation. >> Um, so I think that's something that >> that went well or that was a good thing. >> Yeah, >> it was a good thing. I just have one thing to add. I agree with almost everything that's been said. Um, I really appreciated from a communication standpoint the website >> where if somebody submitted a question, it was
022answered and published on the website, which you know was from for some pretty lengthy reading, but you know, if you could go on there and navigate and search for something that was on your mind, the information was there. Um, I do wonder like going forward if there's a way to make it more digestible, but >> I think that was really awesome to have a way to like an easy way to submit questions and then have them published with the answer like as soon as we could. >> Okay, move on to what didn't go well or areas of opportunity for next time. >> Yeah, I think I mean I think what didn't go well didn't go well. Um, does anybody want to start with that one? >> Well, to me, I can only speak for myself.
023I mean, >> that's who you're talking for. >> It didn't pass. So, that did not go well for me. >> Yes. >> Um, or for what I think and believe and advocate for. >> Y >> um >> I think that towards the end the discussions started getting very personal. >> Um, and >> can I ask you where what discussions? like where >> well I try not to go on Facebook but um I was getting sent screenshots of things from people that were being said about me >> that were being said about other committee members um specifically in the Hamilton Facebook group and then also via email that we would receive or I would personally receive. So just kind of towards the end it started to seem very personal and almost really not productive. >> Yeah.
024Like the purpose of what we're doing is to >> students if you guys experienced that, but that was that was sort of my experience of it. >> I agree with you. >> Anything else that didn't go well in your eyes. >> I don't know. I Well, well, you know how somehow it got wrapped up with 3A, which is a totally separate issue, and we could not extricate it. >> The timing was really hard. Yeah. um that was just unfortunate and kind of beyond our control. Um I'm not sure if there's a lesson to be learned there, but >> I think that was something that was unfortunate. >> That's true. >> Okay. >> Um Okay. Um so I think a lot of things didn't go well. Mhm. >> Um, so I've really thought a lot about
025this. Um, so I don't have the answers. These are things that didn't go well. Um, but a portion of the public definitely did not feel, this is the feedback I've gotten, but a portion of the public definitely did not feel that what was being presented was true >> or real. And so if I'm saying what did we not do well is that somehow I would have liked to have been able to better communicate um that um and there's a there are numerous things in there. Some of it was around that that this was a a 3A related project. um there were just other things along the way that um so I think that's really important that a significant or a a chunk of the population did not feel that the school committee and I'm going
026to talk about the school committee I I you know maybe the administration too but we are the school committee um wasn't providing truthful information um I think we cannot have this conversation without talking about the multiple votes. >> Mhm. Um, >> yes. >> I if I I've said this in our meetings, if I could have gone back in time and if I had fully understood, I I personally would have wanted to explore the ballot vote first. And ideally, I would have wanted to have the public have a long leadup to understanding that. Mhm. >> And so to me that did not go >> well. >> Yeah. Optics are not >> that and it's it is optics but it's more than optics. It's I think I and I voted for it. I take ownership for it.
027This was very important project that I really believe would have been a benefit to our town and I wanted to make sure that it had every opportunity and it's real that people had to vote many times and that it was divisive >> and that didn't go well. So I think >> agree >> we need to take ownership of that. >> Y >> um and I'm going to stop but I have a lot of what didn't go well. I my dream in building a new school. I have a lot of dreams about education and what's right for students. Um but we all many of us I don't think Christian was on the committee but when we talked about the um athletic fields opening >> the feeling that I got at that meeting at that opening when
028we were there with like the whole community and everyone was there was a sense of community pride and that's really what I hoped to achieve with this school and the level of division that was ended up being in our community did not serve that goal. And so that's something that didn't so well. >> I agree. >> I'm getting emotional, so I'm going to stop. >> Do you have thoughts about what didn't? >> Um, so because I was not on the committee through all this time, I have maybe more of a different view. also kind of like >> now I see things a little bit more kind of from both sides because I feel as though I'm >> have a much deeper understanding of the budgetary challenges and the facilities challenges. Um, so I think obviously
029when you have a bad outcome like this kind of whatever it is, I think the problem is ultimately like with the process and the communication about the process and I think for me I think there was not a good understanding not necessarily because of the fault of the school committed of who gets to decide things and Mhm. >> So I think the fact that the idea of consolidation and the place of consolidation was essentially decided by a committee >> even though that committee was appointed through public process even though the public could weigh in on that committee and was invited to do so even though there were opportunities to weigh in. I think that was kind of a major stumbling block for a lot of people. Um, I've lived in town pretty much my whole
030life, but I would not say that I'm a quote necessarily a towny because my parents did not grow up here, but I've lived here my whole life. Um, and I think, you know, if the consolidated school had been maybe presented for the Winthrop site, it might have happened because I just feel like there was maybe more of like a energy around the community wanting a school there >> because they didn't want another use there. and maybe not at the Cutler site and maybe I wasn't I wasn't really aware of this but maybe even the current of Butters Cutler aren't so thrilled that there's a school there currently like of the current size so the idea of a bigger school >> is maybe even less attractive you know so and I think kind of understanding like
031that there is this school building committee that's deciding these things and when it comes to the time of the vote it's partially because of the way our government our local government is structured It was an up or down vote on the appropriation. It wasn't like you could say, >> "Well, I approve this if it costs this. My first choice is this, but I'd be okay with a second choice of this." When it you have an up and down vote, >> three options. >> Yeah. There's not like an opportunity for like ranked choice voting or >> alternatives. It's kind of like the committee produces this as the as the yes or the no and then the public has to vote. And I think that's very hard and I'm very sympathetic to the people that had to
032walk that path now as we've been talking about our budget, >> right? >> Because in a lot of ways we're trying to kind of guess, you know, what are the most important things for the district's budget to prioritize >> how much expense budget is too much >> when you like it triggers an override. It triggers too large of an override. And also I think um just the cost of facilities maintenance and improvements given the legal requirements of those to have a designer to have these things to have prevailing wage and all this and that makes that so expensive. So even on a year-over-year bud basis I think the district's budget >> is probably likely underfunded to achieve what we're trying to do presently. And I'm sure that is a very difficult or unwelcome or even
033unbelievable message for some people that our district budget is what, you know, $42 million. How can that be too small, >> right? >> You know, and I think as you kind of get into the detail of it and you see like this is what we're paying for. This is what their salaries are. This is the benefits. I mean, I don't think people are getting wealthy by and large, teaching and public education, you know, and just how much is really left over to make the kinds of improvements that the public wants. Um, unfortunately, it does burden the real est tax real estate tax base because that's >> that is our central stream of revenue. >> Right. Can I can I I'm just I'm sorry, but I want to add I had a a you know a
034meeting with a citizen who said to me >> um you know the way that taxes are it's I'm going to try to that it's um you know because I always think about like that you know you have excellent schools and you that increases your property value, >> right? >> And that's true and it is really true. I went and did some research after I spoke with this citizen who was like, you know, my house would be worth more in Beverly. And I was like, really? Cuz I always think that's but one of the things that I really did do some research on and it is true like our tax rates are impacting house values like that >> People are deciding not to move here because and I really did some research and that hasn't been
035true in the past and it is more. So it's important on a number of my whole point is just that t it's not just it's the tax rate is we need to think about it >> in a big picture kind of way because it is true that your home value is increased by having excellent >> public education and it's also true that your home value is impacted by your tax rate >> right >> also >> that these things are >> and I think that's a part that I've learned through this process that I wasn't >> because I don't think that was the conventional wisdom several years ago >> it wasn't And now that is >> Yeah. >> So, I've learned something. I'm sorry that I stepped on weight for um >> No, I think that's
036true. And I do think that these things are all connected. Um >> in terms of other things that didn't go well, I think Well, I have kind of two more things to say, I guess, and they're somewhat both related. I think, you know, sharing information in this current moment, regardless of who you are and what you're trying to share or what your business or organization is, is very hard. I think we have never had access to more information and it has never been more difficult to find what you're looking for. >> Um, >> to find what's accurate. >> Yeah. And I and I think that the all the information was there in terms of the school district website, the town websites, but I think that and and there could be emails, there could have been
037links, there could have been all these things and all of that did happen. But I think people have become very accustomed to having information like spoonfed to them >> and to find the most like frictionless path to information. So I think that if it requires like mining a website, >> a minority of people are going to do that >> to go onto a website and find the information and read it and think about it and understanding. And I think >> it's really easy for no matter what you're doing >> to like post on social media, post in a fa Facebook group, try to Google it and you could be getting >> 100% accurate, thorough information back or it could be completely wrong. Like regardless of what your question is, Yeah, that's true. >> Um, and
038so I think that the frictionless nature of the access to information that people will seek just as a society right now is something that we have to really be thinking about and making it >> as easy as possible for people to find accurate information. And I don't know how we do that. I could brainstorm ideas or suggestions or whatever. My concern is is that real communications at a professional consistent level just require a level of resources that the district and the two towns don't have. Exactly. Because I would lump the towns in with this as well. And so I don't know if there's a way for more collaborative shared resources to enhance existing communication functions or what needs to happen. Um, but I think that that is something just as a society we need to
039get to the other side of. And I think it's just being writ small >> with our local municipal kind of spending decisions, information sharing decisions because I think just because you weren't aware of something to the last minute doesn't mean that it was done underhanded. >> Right. Right. >> You know, and so I think that that's a real real problem. Um, and I I do think too, like as a longtime resident, I was very disappointed to see kind of some of the lack of civility that emerged during the process. And there's always been moments of that, but it reached a new, >> I guess, low >> um during this. And I think again, we're functioning as part of a larger social context where people are very afraid. >> Things are changing in society in a
040number of ways at the same time. So, I do think that these things can all feed on each other, but I was very surprised by the level of negativity. Um, and I think a lot of people took that away from this because I think even yesterday at the community conversation, there was an opportunity people had to kind of weigh in on >> the word, the emotional word that they felt conceptual, like captured the process for them. And those words were overwhelmingly negative words. >> Overwhelmingly. Yeah. And I thought that was that to me is also like a failure of this whole thing that that people walked are walking away with it >> with that level of upset. Now granted, there was 50 people there. Not all 7,000 residents of Hamilton went them, but I think
041it was a pretty good >> group, right? And and you're right, those words were very overwhelmingly negative. >> Overwhelmingly negative. Just want to interject quickly about the negative words. I sat and kind of collected the words and felt like they could apply to anybody involved with the project. No matter which, >> right, that >> you voted yes or no. Like we all kind of felt the same, which >> right both both voting >> groups produced negative words about the process. >> Did they though? Well, yes. So just >> from the at the meeting that we at the at the workshop so >> towards like frustrated >> oh well disappointed >> disappointed contentious >> so >> and those were from >> everybody's frustrated >> like it didn't you weren't able to determine >> right right >>
042if someone said frustrated you weren't able to determine whether they voted yes or no on the school it it was >> and I do think that that is an area that we could build on where you know if we're recognizing that everybody Everybody is frustrated. That kind of gives everybody equal ground a little bit, you know, like I'm putting >> like how can we make this less frustrating. >> Yeah. But also like we're all frustrated. You're frustrated. I'm frustrated. You know, we all are sharing one feeling about it. So >> anyway, I didn't mean to do what you're talking about, but I just wanted to add that I thought that was kind of interesting. >> Yeah, it was a like a it made an impression and I think >> I was going to say one
043thing and it just like kind of flew out of my brain. Oh, the other thing that I'm merging that too is like the number of people that felt that they weren't listened to. >> Um, and so I think that's important too because I think I think people need to feel listened to even and understand that there's a nuance between being listened to and people doing what you're saying. >> Exactly. Yes. And so I think that was kind of a breakdown of this process as well because just because people were saying they didn't want certain things to happen or they did want certain things to happen and those things didn't happen, it doesn't mean >> therefore >> you didn't listen to me. So I think in building into this process a way that everybody really does
044feel heard >> is >> but understanding >> that they might not prevail >> not prevail. >> You know that everyone will be heard as part of this process but no one person or group is going to get everything that it wants and yes advocate your what you do want. self-reflective on that, >> right? We the school committee >> did not get what the school committee wanted. And that doesn't mean we weren't >> heard, right? Like that's hard to accept, but it's like that >> it's a good example of >> it's hard that like that like that >> that like people said this is not what we want. >> Right. Right. And so that's >> and I do I do think that both sides felt disenfranchised because now I'm thinking I I really do think that
045the voting was a huge huge problem. Um and something that we have to think about if this ever comes back around. Um but that first vote, wasn't it supposed to be here? And then there was too many people that was a bummer in Womber. Yeah. And I know that there were a lot of people that wanted to vote yes that got babysitters and were waiting in the morning. Hundreds hundreds of people outside >> they couldn't vote >> and yet hundreds outside >> and and I will say that's all true and I want to say it didn't pass in Hamilton >> right anyway but well I'm just thinking like I think there's all around people felt disenfranchised >> right no I'm just saying like >> the process like you were saying the process is just as
046much a part of this >> as the project >> I think the process is essential to an outcome that everybody body can live with. >> I think it really is. I think that's because at least people will then say like, well, I had the opportunity to be informed. I was listened to. Now it's time for the decision-making body. I'll say that because there are so many levels of decision-m bodies here that are connected that roll up into those final town meeting warrants. And I mean, I'm kind of like a history nerd, so I love town meeting and I love that like we all get to go and we all get to vote and like if we could wear like pilgrim outfits, I'd be for it. Like I just think it's great in so many ways.
047But I also think like all the things that make it great, there are also so many problematic things because you have to be there in person. Like yes, there is a bill pending to allow voting remotely and all these different things. >> I mean, for people with disabilities and people that can't attend, it's >> disenfranchised. Exactly. And so that's the reason why it's like there are downsides to this format and in the 21st century I think people expect that technology should eradicate those downsides but I think the legislation hasn't caught up with that and I think you know the government wants to make sure that the right people you know people are authorized to vote like there's all these things that I think can be overcome but like we're not there right now right so
048you have this town meeting process which historically very very very few people participate in >> that was I I mean, >> so I don't really necessarily fault the town government for thinking that the the gym and the overflow spaces that were set up would be enough, you know, and then we did move it to Gordon College >> and the turnout was way lower, >> but to your point, it may not have ultimately been material because of >> Right. There were I mean there were 400 people at Hamilton that had never been to a town meeting before. That was the clicker question. >> Yeah. was like, "Have you ever been to town meeting before?" >> Right. I know. >> And I mean that's in and I maybe that should go under what's good >> that people
049were engaged >> that people were like people came and now they've been to town meeting. They know that I mean like >> Yeah. >> Well, that's kind of what I have under my what didn't go well is engagement. So, >> and everyone sort of touched on this already, so I don't spend a ton of time on it because we have about 20 minutes left, a little less than 20. But I not everyone was engaged in all of the information. And even yesterday when people were talking about, you know, ideas for ways to engage the community that happened, but not everyone knew about it. And I felt like we did a good job of getting the word out, sending out postcards, sending out emails, and still not everyone knew. So, I'm I'm kind of wrecking my
050brain about like how do we what are some creative ways that we can get the word out, get people involved in town meeting, you know, just in anything having to do with government because I agree our form of government is very interesting and it's a gift, right, for people to be able to be involved in that way. Um, so, so that was my big thing for me like what didn't go well. Not everyone was engaged in all the information. We had short form videos. We had long, you know, answers on the website. We had lots of discussions and meetings. The whole MSBA process is all outlined on the site, but again, it's really, really long and really, you know, there's a lot to it. So, um, that was the piece for me. And then just
051to reframe or restate the lots of misinformation and not no not everyone feeling like there was a central hub for getting the correct information even though I feel like we had that. Well, I think it was just required too much effort to get >> and and I've said to many people I' I've said to many people in conversations like I myself don't follow and watch every single like I'm not watching every planning board meeting, every, >> you know, zoning board, every select board meeting, every I'm not like, you know, times two towns like there it's not reasonable to ask citizens right >> to watch, you know, dozens of meetings every month so that they can get informed. That's not >> reasonable. It's difficult to get information. I I'm I would be curious because I the
052newspaper came in about a year ago, I think. >> Oh, if we had it. >> I'm curious about what that would have been like because >> the turnup for the community conversations was good because of that. >> Maybe. I mean, one of the things I think that's good about a newspaper that you don't it just appears is that even if you don't read it, the headline is going to land on your kitchen counter and you're not going to have the experience, which I think a lot of people had that like that all of the sudden they were voting on a school that they didn't know that that was happening. I think if you had had that newspaper for the whole time, you would have at least seen like you week after week there would be
053a >> um you know I um before we had the newspaper there would be it would be mindboggling to me that I'd be like and I would sometimes ask Eric like like there's no press so like this huge thing is going on and no one is contacting me, no one is contacting Eric. That's not true anymore. >> Yeah. Like now somebody is contacting and saying, >> "Yeah, >> you do you have a comment or whatever." >> Well, maybe for the 29th we need to ask people in attendance, how did you hear about this? >> Yeah. >> Right. >> What's like an entry poll? >> Is it the postcard? Is it the paper? Was it Facebook friend, word of mouth, whatever >> just to kind of see like what's I mean because I used to do
054that with programming always have a mandatory question. How did you hear about this program? so I knew like >> what was working you know um to do try to do more of it or improve other things you know >> so that might be helpful and I think you're right I think the paper generally would have been an asset >> to the process >> you know I think I don't know that for sure right >> I I just know that like week after week you would get a paper and it would have a headline and even if you didn't read the article the headline would have said like you know visioning senses on new elementary school and they it would start to sink in like this is happening and if you were interested in that then
055you might >> then you read more >> read more and if you weren't interested in that which is okay you don't have to be interested in every single thing but it's okay but at least it would be a little bit on your radar like oh yeah that's out there that's happening >> um >> so we have about 15 minutes left and our last question is what questions do you have but we can also keep discussing because I feel like we're >> I The only other thing that I would say about this process is I think that the that there were a lot of people that wanted to know the real cost of renovating. >> And I think that the construction professional consultant person, can't remember his name, I can see his face, but he had
056like white hair and like glasses and stuff. who he was basically like well we looked at this during the process like you know based upon kind of the back of the envelope calculations it's going to be you know was tens of millions of dollars for the three schools versus like 40 million of town money and with the MSBA match for the consolidated school and I really got the feeling that that was not sufficient for a lot of people. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Um I mean even like over Christmas I was talking to a relative who lives in town. I was like, "Well, there really should be an up like a like a a study of all the buildings and what they need." And I was sort of like >> that was done, you know?
057And so, it was just really like again kind of a missing piece of information. And I think that >> um that wasn't enough. And I think it's really hard to explain to people why facilities work in the schools is so expensive. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> because I think it's one thing to say like, well, I just redid my kitchen last year >> and it was this and like this is ridiculous. And I think it's a totally different set of rules. >> It is. I mean, I'll just say the very first thing that I said to Eric when we started getting the the magnitude, like when I started understanding the scale that we were talking about, I was like, you know, I'm looking at the Cutler site and the Winthre site and my Iron Rail site
058and I'm imagining and I'm thinking to myself, I know what I live in Hamilton. I know what a million-dollar house looks like, right? I was like, we're not building a hundred million dollar houses. Like it's easy >> to like I think as a lay person like that's your first >> instinct is natural to sort of say this doesn't make any sense like how >> and so I it's really important like I don't it's hard to educate yourself about like this is a whole different thing than what >> Yeah. Um, I mean, maybe I'm just saying the same thing, but that literally was the first I like went into Eric and I was like, >> I am not understanding. >> I I think it's hard and I think there were a lot of like other I
059think very well-meaning like, well, this town renovated this building for this amount of money or this town renovated this school for this amount of money. Can't we do that and save all this money? >> And so, I think it was very hard to connect the dots of like, yes, they did spend that. they put that out to bid and the contract was signed in this year and the cost per square foot of commercial construction using survailing wage was X and now it's Y you know I mean I think like you had to go I think layers deeper >> to get to some of that detail and I think >> that's very hard andor maybe it was a feeling that more for lack of a better term like due diligence had to be done and really
060kind of explaining renovating is not an option because of the code triggers this and that and that you know like once you start touching this building you're now going to have to put in sprinklers you're now going to have to do this and meanwhile you can't do that over February break >> right >> so we're renting a fleet of trailers to put out here on the grass where all the kids are going to go to school for a year or two >> while we kind of do all this and so I think there are so many pieces to that that I think we're not spelled out with sufficient detail. The tricky bit of it is I think to actually get to that level of detail would be very costly. >> Exactly. >> So I don't
061know what the feeling is or the willingness is to to pay for supplemental I will say because I don't think we need to start from scratch but build on work that was done like supplemental >> design type work to get to those estimates. Right. I mean, because I think if we had a magic wand, of course, everyone would want I want that. I would want full design of what it looks like to build three new elementary school, what it looks like to build one, what it looks like to renovate all three. But >> each one of those things costs a ton of money. >> But like of I mean, you know, I right the people who said they would really have loved if we could vote, do you want this or do you want that?
062Like yeah, me too. I would have loved to have that, but it cost >> over a million dollars to get to where we were and you can't like I don't know. So, but I do I'm so empathetic with that. >> Of course. Yeah. >> thought process because it makes sense. >> Well, it's what you would do in your like home life, right? And so I think that >> that's if that's most people's frame of reference. And so you would if I were doing this at home, I would get like three quotes and then I would make a decision, you know, and >> Right. And you might and you might have like the dream if you were doing a bathroom, you'd have like the dream bathroom, the middle one, and the like just get it done
063and like you'd like to like and then you compare and then you you'd make decisions about >> Right. And so I think everyone maybe was not sure that we were not just going for the dream bathroom with no quotes, >> right? >> Yeah, that seemed to be I think that's a really good analogy. >> Yeah. I wonder if thinking about next steps and if we're considering doing something on our own, not through MSBA, that might be a benefit where we can say here are two options like if we're kind of doing it our way. Like so much of the MSBA process dictated how everything was structured and it created some pain points for, >> you know, how people think about renovation and how people think about choice and things like that. So maybe that's a
064silver lining to having to do it on their own. >> Potentially. >> Yep. >> We have eight minutes left. Would we not say anything anybody wanted to say? >> Yeah. I mean I have I mean I think the big question you said like what are the questions? Um, I'm hoping and I think we're going to get I mean think we're getting it, but I I'm hoping we're going to get clearer on what the public um I mean, we got a vote and the public doesn't want this. >> So, I would love it if I could get clearer on what the public does want. And I'm getting mixed messages right now. >> That's good. And so I'd really love some way I mean that's it's the question was what's the question not what's the answer I
065don't have the answer my question is I would really love to know >> what if anything what the majority of the people would want whether that and I'm hearing you know there was is that a renovation of one school is it a renovation of three schools is it a renovation of two schools is Is it a new Cutler school just the Cutler size it is right now and then 10 years from now a new win school? I don't know. And I want to hear and we don't I that's my question. We don't need to answer that. I'm not I'm not trying to answer it. That's my my question is I would love to know what the public actually >> does support because when I talk to different people I hear a lot of different things.
066Well, I feel like the question is more how do we decide what the public supports because there are so many different opinions and different, >> you know, we've got a whole gamut of people and different age stages. So, like everybody wants different things. So, I don't think we'll be able to get to the point where we understand what or be able to do what everybody wants. >> I'm not I know you didn't ask. I I'm not saying because there's no way that that's life, right? There's no way to get to make everyone happy. I'm actually wanting to know what >> the majority of voters do want >> like 51%. >> Because >> I think we have to go for higher because of the >> No, I guess but what I'm saying is we know that
067the majority of the voters did not want this. >> Yeah, we know they don't what they don't want. >> So, what I want to know is like okay, like is there something that the majority Maybe that's the better question. Is there something >> that the majority would get behind or are we so divided that in fact there is no at this moment maybe there isn't because like when I talk to people who say well I voted no because I wanted to build three new schools over time. >> Yeah. That's very different than I voted no because this is breaking me on the taxes and I cannot afford to do this. Those are different. But I think that's the almost the way of solving this in a way is to say like to come at it
068through the budget side to say how much more are you willing to invest in your or pay as part of your real estate tax bill for all of the things that Hamilton Windham and the district are trying to do. I could pay 500 more a year, 100 more a year, zero more a year, 2,000 more a year. I almost think is it are we better off to understand the potential annual flow of revenue because I think that is more actually useful to the intersecting challenge of the town and the district budget because that's what we're all trying to guess at is like >> well we're we want to do these things with our budget and Hamilton and when but if we cut ours is >> the town's going to go up like you're kind of
069playing chess in three dimensions you know and so >> I almost think it would be better to ask from zero to whatever, how much more would you be willing to pay in taxes and then have some sort of priority list of like the thing that is most important to me, I'm making this up, is like I want trash pickup twice a week, right? I want >> to get improvement in our >> I want the water issues to be fixed, the with the water, whatever it is. >> I think these two issues are are different actually. >> Fully funding the pensions. I mean, there's so many things that the towns are behind on >> that it's like, how much money are you willing to invest >> in collectively advancing this mission of Hamilton Winnham forward? >>
070I think I think that's very important. I think what Dana is saying is different. I think those two things are important, >> but it's very to me from my perspective, it's very easy to be against something, >> but it's very hard to then propose a solution >> that works. on the alternate side. So, I agree. I think we definitely need to know how much people can handle financially, but we need to really know what's the direction because clearly we thought we had a great direction that we were going in >> and we were wrong. >> So, yeah. So, we'd love some It's sort of like when Vinnie and Eric present us with a budget and then none of us talk, >> right? >> Which we have to do. >> And they're like, "Uh, do you
071want to cut it? Do you love it? Do you want What do you want to do?" They need direction. Okay. They need some they need direction from us. Like are we going in the right direction? Are we going completely in the wrong direction? Because what they don't want is to present the budget to us and have it fail. Obviously. Exactly. >> So I think it's the same thing with this. >> We don't want to present another project to the public and have it fail. So what >> I would welcome everyone to tell me, you know, like in our conversations, community conversations, emails, citizen comments, um what do what are people thinking? >> Yeah. Um, and they might not have enough financial information. >> Well, that's what I think the stumbling block is. Well, how much
072does that cost >> to make that, right? So, they that's a good point. They might not have enough information. But I think maybe in a dream bathroom world, if we keep saying that, what would they want? >> Right. >> Um, I am going to be we have to go. >> So, um, >> thank you all. >> Thank you. Now I want to redesign