School Committee 12.18.25

001committee on Thursday, December 18th, 2025 at 7:01 p.m. Uh, I'd like to remind everyone that this meeting is being recorded and livereamed on HWCAM. Um, we will start off with an opportunity for citizens comments. Um, doesn't look like there's anyone on Zoom. Is that correct, Eric? >> Correct. >> Um, I'm going to guess there's no one in the room that's offering a citizen's comment. Okay. Um, seeing no people who are interested in commenting, I'm going to close citizens comments at this time. >> Closing citizens. >> All right. And they're closed on Zoom and we will move forward. >> Um, next up is a review of a portion of our school committee protocols. Uh Kristen, >> as elected members of the Hamilton Winnham Regional School Committee, we including the superintendent accept the high honor and trust

002that has been placed in us to ensure that the students of the district receive the best education possible. To that end, we hereby commit to the following and the conduct of our business. Administration will endeavor to make materials for school committee meetings available the Friday before the meeting. The school committee will recognize that some circumstances will not always make this possible. In any event, we recognize that having background materials available for school committee members is a best practice. Thank you. Uh, next up is a portion of our school committee mission statement. Jen, >> the Hamilton Winnham Regional School District Committee's mission is to ensure our schools create graduates with a passion for lifelong learning together with the critical skills needed to maximize their potential. The Hamilton Wenom Regional School Committee will lead and inspire a

003district that inspires all students to realize their fullest potential and feel a powerful sense of individual and collective belonging. Thank you. Uh next up is uh the superintendence report. Eric, >> couple of small things. I just wanted to note uh the exhibit on the agenda. We've changed around how we're doing the um recognitions for athletics rather than have a couple of kids come and a couple of coaches come. Um we're doing it a little differently. So, we gave an overview from Craig Genualdo, which is part of the um exhibits here. They're going to do uh individual recognitions on all the social media. They have the social media team at the high school now. And then um do announcements and things around the schools in the on the the TVs and TV screens. Um pretty pretty

004broad selection of uh kids here. They're they're uh really an outline of everything that happened in the fall. Sorry, I'm having a little trouble with my browser here. There we go. Uh all the things that happened in the fall and gives us an outline of who the champions were, who became uh tournament winners, who uh some of our captains were, who the special award winners, um all in this one memo. So, I wanted to just bring that to everybody's attention. Uh second thing, the the um school start time committee met again this week, third meeting, and we continue to dig into a lot of the data. We invited Craig Janualdo, the athletic director, to the meeting to get some insight from him, have some questions answered. He gave us a really uh good amount of

005data related to when things start, when things need to start, especially when kids travel. also gave us a lot of information to look at. We have another meeting that'll be after the holidays and we've invited um Melissa Emler from the community house. She'll be doing the same thing. We'll kind of do a Q&A with her, figure out uh what happens if certain shifts are made and then um we we'll continue on. Our goal is to have a report to the committee with some type of a recommendation uh in early March. So, we're hoping the first meeting in March, that is our target. So, we're we're trying to do uh at least three more meetings before we get to that point. And then the uh second order of business is the the third order business is

006the um AI group. We're going to put together a small group of people to develop a policy um in early January who will work together to use the information from DESIE as we outlined in our goal that we'll use uh the information that Desi has provided. They've done a lot more research. they put a lot more information out there now um for policy development, but also so that we can start to devise what a um test pilot would look like at certain grade levels. So, we'll kick that off in January. And then the final thing, uh Jen Clifford and I are putting together the strategic planning process, which will also kick off in January. Um that will really give us the opportunity to begin to examine everything that we've done for the past four years

007or four and a half years. Uh all the things that we've completed, the things we're working on, what we project into the future, and then really trying to build a plan that's 5 years this time instead of three. Uh so all of that work is coming at us and I just wanted to give people a heads up that it will be mostly launching right after vacation and within you know within the month of January. The strategic plan will probably take us into Aprilish maybe depending on how many meetings. We're thinking between five and six meetings of the group before we can formulate a final plan. And then um that's really it for now. Just want to give people some updates. >> Thank you. Anybody have questions for Eric? >> Thank you. >> Um Eric, I

008just want to I don't want to step on your add something to your report, but we I just discussed it earlier. I right before this meeting, I just wanted to acknowledge that um the position paper that Eric wrote regarding um the school funding that you presented to us, chapter 70 funding that you presented to us in I think November. I just wanted to put forward I just watched the Wenom select board meeting. I don't know if anyone else watched that, but they the wenom select board voted to in support to write a letter of support of that. Um, so I just wanted to acknowledge that and acknowledge the wom select board for taking the time to um study it and discuss it. And >> thank you. >> So >> we also have a letter we

009just finished generating from the superintendent round table. So it's like over 20 superintendents we built a kind of the next version of these are some deeper thoughts about it because so many districts have different pieces of the puzzle. So we just finished another document that we submitted as well. So this this some hopefully we get some movement on it. >> Yeah. Um thank you. Anybody else have anything else? No. Okay. Um next up is the consent agenda. Does anyone have any items that they would like to have held from the consent agenda? >> No. >> I move that the school committee approve the consent agenda as presented. >> Second by Kristen Non. Um all those in favor? That is unanimous of the six members present and the motion passes. All right. Um next up we

010have uh Mr. Managi, I believe, is going to give us um some information about the high school program of studies for next year. >> Thank you. And just to give a little context, um the program of studies is reviewed and approved annually by the committee. When I was the principal and Brian still continues that, they have a a group that will review it at the high school level. Uh make some adjustments, changes. Some are seasonal because some years we run some courses and some we don't. So you'll see some courses come in and some go out and I'll just leave that to Brian to explain it. Uh some of the changes and adjustments. So Brian Managi, >> good evening everyone. Uh thanks for having me here tonight. Um just wanted to maybe summarize some of

011the major changes in our program of studies for the 26 27th school year. Um like in the front here we have new courses that we're going to be offering. uh first one in the math department uh probability and game theory. Um we were looking to add another math elective and we thought that a class that focuses on critical thinking, strategic thinking, uh but also the ability to use numbers across a variety of disciplines would be a nice opportunity for kids uh especially older kids, you know, who have developed their foundational math skills to expand a little bit and see how math can be applied um in some real world contexts. So, that's one new course. Uh, another new course we're going to be offering next year is AP business uh with personal finance. And so,

012we're adding another AP course um to our roster of opportunities for students. Uh, the good thing about this is that it's a very accessible course. Um, any kid can really take it. We're going to start out by offering it to 11th and 12th graders. uh just really for scheduling purposes in year 1, also to allow the teacher some time to uh learn how to actually run kids through this course. Um and then look at adding or opening it up to 10th graders following year uh to give younger kids a chance to take AP courses. Um, also AP Business will um be offered for dual enrollment, meaning a student can pay a fee and actually receive college credit for passing the course uh from Southern New Hampshire University. And I think this is a a good

013thing because kids may or may not do well on the actual AP test connected to that course, uh, which, you know, would determine whether or not they receive college credit. But if they receive a passing grade in the course uh without having to take the AP test, they can still get college credit through Southern New Hampshire, which can be then transferred to a variety of institutions. And then the final new course uh is a semester elective uh in the science department uh microbiology. Um this is a course that I think kids have kind of been asking about for a little while. Uh we've been watching our other course signups u for some of the other semester electives in science. Um, and I'll we can talk about that a little bit, but we felt that uh

014microbiology would be a nice partner course for the biotechnology course that we already teach because they use a lot of the same equipment and materials. And uh we think, you know, it' be nice to get kids who actually took both. So, they almost get like a year-long uh experience in both uh biotechnology and the closely connected microbiology. And it's a very hands-on course which will be accessible to a lot of students. >> Yeah. Jen, >> um, at what BSL level are we running that micro course and are we set up for it? >> Uh, I'm sorry, what' you say? >> At what biosafety level are we running the microbiology course? >> The same level that we would be using it for any of the other bio courses that we have at the high school. >>

015Okay. where they they are already using uh media growing bacteria. So it's you know that's already >> which bacteria are being grown because some are biohazards and some are not. >> Yeah, we haven't ever worked with anything that's considered a biohazard. Um that's I think the advantage of working with some of the bigger vendors is that they're going to provide things that aren't going to cause problems for secondary school settings. So after new courses, we have some courses that we're just going to excise out of the program of studies. Uh the advanced algebra and trigonometry course. This was a senior year course. It just hasn't run for several years. Uh cuz kids um who don't take pre-calculus or calculus their senior year or even AP stats um have been taking uh statistics as their senior

016year course. and it's worked well for them because I think it provides them with a foundation that will be useful in whatever field that they go into. Um, and then biochemistry is the science course I was alluding to earlier that we're going to be cutting out um of the the program of studies. We just haven't had the signups for it and it's not as hands-on a course as microbiology could be. Um, biochemistry can be a tough course to run in a high school setting just because of some of the things that you're using um and the equipment that you need for it, especially if you want to do it hands-on. Um, there's some substantive course description changes uh that are outlined in the memo um especially in the math area where our foundational courses uh

017course description has been updated based on some of the instructional materials that we use um instructional strategies and alignment with standards. Um, biology has been updated, I think, to align better again with the new instructional materials that we have and the instructional approach that we're using. Um, anatomy and physiology, uh, was updated, and I can talk a little bit more about that, uh, why we're doing that, uh, updating the course description for anatomy. Um, and then there were a number of art courses where we just chose to freshen up the language in the um, course descriptions uh, to align it more with what we're doing. And the same with 10th grade wellness. Um the other changes uh that are in there that are oftent times part of the course descriptions themselves like I said earlier

018uh AP business with personal finance is another dual enrollment option on top of uh environmental science and also uh the marketing course that we have and then we're going to make our anatomy and physiology course a dual enrollment option for students. So again, if they would like to pay the fee and they pass the class, they can receive uh credit at Southern New Hampshire. And that's a another reason why we updated um our course description is to align it with what Southern New Hampshire was looking for as well. And um adding dual enrollment courses was one of our school goals for this year. Um just to give more kids the option um to get college credit um before they leave the high school and offering it outside the arena. um of taking AP tests uh

019to make room for AP business because it's a year-long course for scheduling purposes. Uh we are not going to run the marketing course that I had just talked about which is a dual enrollment option. um because we have one business teacher at the high school and if that teacher were to teach both AP business um and the marketing course, we'd start to run out of room in that teacher schedule for some of the other electives that she would be teaching. And we need her to teach those electives cuz kids need to take classes, but also they need the foundational knowledge in the business area to be able to take some of the more advanced courses. Um so we had to make room in that schedule. Um every other year um courses uh come into the

020program of studies and go out of the program of studies and social studies. Uh because this year we're going to be uh actually I should say next year we're going to be running contemporary history and current American conflicts. And to make room for that uh real history and law and society will take a break for a year. And that's we've done that for a number of years. uh because what happens if often times if you offer too many electives at once, kids sign up for all of them and then you have absolutely no idea what you're supposed to run. So by limiting the options a little bit, we get a better idea of what students actually really want to take and then we're able to schedule them into those courses. Uh another thing that we

021added to the program studies uh was a description of our grading scale and our GPA scale. Um, in some conversations with parents, they thought it would be a good idea just to have that information side by side with a course description so that way you know what you're signing up for and what the potential impact could be uh on a kid's grades and GPA. And I I do make the point in the program of studies that that should not be a reason why you take a particular course at a particular level, but it is something to keep in mind as you are uh moving through the high school. Uh and finally uh we added a description of the competency determination, the new one uh from uh from our own policy. You know, we had always

022had that in the program of studies. Uh but before it was really short and sweet where it just said you have to pass MCCAST. Uh now it's a number of pages long. Um and I would expect we'll probably be putting a new competency determination policy in there next year as well. but wanted to make sure that that information uh is available to students and parents as they start looking through picking courses. Um the good thing is is that all the courses that kids need as part of the competency determination are really required courses, so they're going to wind up taking them anyways, but just want families and students to have that information. So I believe that's all I have for you for updates to the program of studies. >> Thank you. >> Uh questions. >>

023Um two comments actually. I was reading through the one or the description and there are 12 organ systems, not 11. Um you guys say 11, but in reality there are 12. Yeah, I'm sure we could go to different places and some would say 11, some would say 12 depending upon how you categorize things, but I think that probably aligns with what Southern New Hampshire is looking for. >> And the other thing is the table of contents is all screwy. >> It's >> messed up. it. Yeah, it will be because when you update the um the text in the body of it, it just it it screws the whole table of contents up. So, that's something that, you know, once we reformat everything, get it where we want it. Yep. It'll be updated. >> Um, anybody

024else? Um, I was going to say that about the I I assume that because I had the same issue with the table of contents, but I assume that that was that it's just because it's still in a editing mode. Um, I just want to make sure I think I I think I know, but I want to make sure that the alignment of the courses that are dual enrollment, they're aligned with the Southern New Hampshire um curriculum and and um but there's no difference to a student's actual experience, whether they've paid the fee to Southern New Hampshire or whether they're correct. >> Right. There's no difference in their actual >> learning or experience. It's just whether they're going to get submission to the >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Right. Anybody have anything else?

025>> Um what do you need from us this evening? >> Your blessing, I guess. >> Do you need a vote to approve or is that what you're looking for? A vote to approve? >> Yeah, I think so. I think every year we just sort of look for the school committee to say it's it's good to go. So that you to give you a little bit of an idea of where we're at. You know, right now we would like to just get this approved so that way we can uh first of all make this suitable for the public. Um but also uh start preparing powers school for scheduling. Uh believe it or not, we we already have to think about that kind of stuff for next year. uh because once we get back uh from vacation,

026you know, we're going to start talking with kids about that and we need to have all that stuff in place, which includes having all of our new courses um you know, listed out appropriately. Okay. >> Um thank you. You want me to make a motion? I move that we accept the Hamilton Regional High School program of studies for the academic year 2026 2027 as presented. >> Second by Jen Carr. Is there any further discussion, questions? All right, looks like we're ready to vote. All those in favor? That is unanimous of the six members present and the motion passes. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Okay. Um All right. Next up is an update um to our regional agreement process. As you know, we've been um meeting with um

027representatives from both uh towns to talk about the um regional agreement. and I wanted to give you an update, but we got some new information um today. I think um I'm going to turn it over to Eric for a second. The big change we got today was the state uh board of education had made changes back in September to um 6033 CMR41 which is the regulations related to regional schools and part there were some substantial changes made in those uh regulations and I just want to touch upon a couple of the highlights. Um, several of the definitions were updated. Something the difference between expansion and enlargement used to be really tricky to figure out. Are you expanding your district? Are you enlarging your district? So, they've they've now said that expansion is specific to grade

028levels. So, if you're if you're like Masco and you have just a few grade level, you don't have them all and you wanted to add more, that would be an expansion. And then enlargement is adding another municipality. So, if you said, "Okay, we want to go from two to three." um it would be an enlargement. The membership, if you will, of uh or reorganization now triggers a reorganization conference with the Department of Education before anything can be said. So, if somebody wants to come in or leave, there's a reorganization conference. And then there's also a fairly substantial report that will be now due um to examine the impacts of of uh the the change on kids. There's some approval process changes that have been um identified as streamlined. We haven't had to use them yet,

029but all regional agreements now need to be approved by the commissioner uh through the department. So, they'll they'll go and say that any amendment, if we made one amendment, we'd have to send it to the department, get that approved before it went to town meeting. So, if we said we wanted to change the regional agreement and have it on the agenda for April town meeting, we need to get it to the department now and get their blessing before it would go in front of the the voters. And then any uh reorganization, as I said, will be a long range educational plan. You literally have to map out over the next several years how any change you make that's either changes the number of grades or changes the number of municipalities. Um so that has to

030be submitted before any of those conversations even begin. And then they're talking about assessments and if your if your assessment is already outlined in your regional agreement, there's one in the law that says this is the way you would do it. Um, so you can use the alternative meth method or the one in your regional agreement. We stick to the one in the regional agreement. That's what everybody knows and loves so well. Uh, which is what we we do the three-year average uh to figure out the assessment. And then we are required to transmit our budgets once it's adopted by the committee uh within 30 days to uh it's got to be certified by the treasur and sent to the towns within 30 days. We do that every year anyway as soon as it gets

031because it still has to go to them before I think March 2nd meeting to be voted uh to be on the warrant. So, we're we're fine there. I don't not sure the change, but they they did add no later than April 30th. So, there are a number of communities that will have to back up their budget um process. And then um fiscal oversight. There are some changes to the commissioner's authority and that would have to do with um really looking at a budget failure. So if your budget failed and you went back and adjusted it and it failed again and you got to July 1st, the commissioner basically takes over the district's budget and does what they call a one 112th budget. they budget you for one month at a time until you can come

032to some resolution within the community so that they they cleaned up the how that reads and what the authority of the commissioner is. So just some changes. It's it's uh it's um not dramatic for us. It's it's pretty straightforward. But while we're in this process of reviewing the regional agreement, if we do make changes, there are a couple of new things that we didn't anticipate that we now have will have to do. >> Thank you. Yep. >> Um, does anybody have any questions? >> Oh, look at that. All kinds of questions. >> Uh, you said we had to now have reorganizations approved by the state before we do them. >> Yes. >> Um, what do you mean by reorganizations? >> So, if you said, um, all right, I'm just going to make up an example.

033Toppsfield's going to now become part of the regional district. Uh before you do that or start to make any agreements, you have to develop the long range educational plan first, submit that to the state, get approval, and then move forward with the kind of the legal part of it with voting and things like that. >> So it's adding a new town. It's not like reorganizing schools in the district. >> No, no, you can you can within the current as long as you don't change the current structure, you can do anything within within the current structure. If you change the current, if we decided elementary schools are now going to be just located at the towns and we're only going to have a regional and middle high school, we would have to we would have to

034submit that. But something like what we already have in place, we can reorganize within that. >> Okay. Thank you, Kristen. Um, I was wondering, I guess this is a two-part question, if we know how long these new rags have been under development and if there's any sort of like contextual history as to why the state may have put them forth. Like, has this been confusion or are they concerned there's going to be more regional districts and want to get ahead of some questions or, you know, things like that? >> Yeah, it's a good question. They've been doing this since uh early 2025 and they did a similar process that they do all the time where they have they put it out to the public. They got six comments in the in the out from the

035public. So, and the comments are pretty straightforward that so it was mostly they started it for clarity. There were a number of districts that were concerned about uh the possibility because of the budget issues that are occurring with either readjusting their district uh composure uh construction or looking at it from the perspective of maybe there are this is a time when communities now want to either shrink or grow regional agreements. So I think this is kind of in anticipation to that. The changes aren't dramatic if you're already an established regional. If you're not and you want to, there's a couple more steps. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> Um, I don't, uh, Eric, I don't know, but would you be willing to just send that so the whole committee has it just >> for

036some light reading? >> So, will these changes force us to actually update our regional agreement because it doesn't meet their standards? Um, I don't think so, but I'm not done going through comparing. I just got it this morning and started comparing and just wanted to give you an update of the changes. But I started doing a little bit of comparison to see if if there cuz there is a note at the end of the email they sent. You might want to check with your attorney. Uh, so I'm just doing it now just to see um if there are any impacts. It doesn't look like it. Um, but I don't know if we do make some adjustments what will happen. >> Well, that's what I was going to say. I I'm not sure exactly how you

037meant the question. I I think you you're answering like if we weren't to do anything, I don't think we would have to do anything make any changes. However, I think my our my understanding is that if we do try to change any part of the regional agreement, my understanding even before these changes was that DESIE will review the entirety of the agreement. So anything that is outdated even if we didn't >> update it that at that point we would probably be told but it would be in the context of we're trying to change some part of this agreement. That's my did that answer your question? >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. >> Um >> and I can send you the email that I got from the state today. It it's interesting this thing was approved. I

038remember going through the minutes of the meeting back in September. It was September 30th. This was approved and state finally got out got it out to the districts today. >> So >> yeah, >> surprise. >> Regional agreement is all is not a fast moving process. >> Regional agreement is slowm moving train very slow. >> Um so thank you for that. Um when we originally put this agenda item on here, we really were just going to be giving an update on our regional agreement process and where we are. and then this came in today and so it made sense to put it to update you here. Um I just wanted to give um so we have been meeting um our last meeting was on December 3rd I think. Um but I wanted to at that meeting

039um so as you know just to refresh the main focus from the point of view of the committee the main focus was two main things. One is to look at our election procedures and to align them with state law. Um or andor um which has been mentioned as a real likely possibility is that to request special legislation um in order to align us with state law. So to get us in line. Um and the other one is um the aortionment um and we've proposed um and we've talked about it here many times is moving from a three-year rolling average to a 5-year rolling average um in our portionment. So every year on October 1st we get an enrollment um and it tells us how many students are from Hamilton and how many are from Winnham.

040And um basically use that number to create percentages of the two towns. And so um the committee is looking to uh move that to a 5-year rolling average to smooth out those curves. Um so I'm here today to sort of give you some updates and get some feedback. I this is new information for all of you. So I'm not sure that we're looking for a vote. I'm sort of just looking for having some conversations. the select boards in both towns are going to have similar conversations. So one of the things that got proposed by the towns to the two towns is an interest in having a conversation about or an interest in talking about a different election uh aortionment. So aortionment of us not the aortionment of the money of us. So our so Hamilton

041Wenham is is unique and we are not the only district but we're it's pretty unusual that we are all elected at large. That's pretty unusual. Um the towns are interested in having a conversation about whether we should be three from Hamilton, three from Wenham and one person at large. Um I have I just want to make sure everyone understands what I'm what the proposal is that um that is not what we the school committee did not propose that what we proposed was um getting to make sure that our agreement was written in alignment with the way that we do things right now which would be that we everyone is elected at large in both towns that those elections are for three years and that those are held at the spring local um elections. That's what

042we were proposing. Um so I actually have a very strong opinion but I want I want to hear opinions and thoughts and again this is just a discussion. It's not the and as like I said the select boards are going to bring forth this um and also there is no way to have this conversation in executive session. Um even though it seems like it should be because we're negotiating it's sort of strategy but yeah >> and the select boards are under the same situation. >> Well I have a question. >> Yeah. So, it makes sense to make sure that there's representation from both towns on the committee because you could run into a situation where the committee is made up of residents from just one town or the other. So, that makes sense. >> In

043theory, you could >> in theory. um would it make more sense to have the structure of the committee align with the aortionment of students which I know would be not perfect year-over-year but >> so I'm going to answer that um sort of by not answering it but to say that this is coming from >> then it would change >> it would change yes >> no but what I'm saying is >> we proposed one thing >> they proposed this >> they're proposing three three and one Okay. >> so you would need to ask them that question. >> You might need to ask them that is is my is my point is that like >> yes, if you were sitting with the hat of the towns I understand where that question is coming from. >> Well, I

044guess my question too is what do other >> So, yes, >> I know we're unique in that we're very small. So typically other communities and I'm not an expert but I have like other communities often don't have anyone at large at all. they just have it >> right aortioned based you know like it you know like you would have you know three from one town four from another or um whatever >> and based on the student population >> population or whatever agreement they have but yes >> was oh sorry >> no go ahead go ahead >> whether you're coming from Hamilton or coming from Wenham this means that there will be at least three people maybe four on the board that are representing you but you didn't get to vote for them. >> Correct. >>

045That I don't like. >> Right. It's interesting. >> Exactly. Yeah. So I all other because I like I said I came in saying I have a very strong opinion. I but I want other people to >> Yeah. I I 100% agree with that. >> And also what was their rationale that >> Wenom is going to favor Wenham and Hamilton's going to favor Hamilton. I just I first of all don't understand the rationale but secondly if everyone in the towns from what I've heard and seen the signs they want the school committee to represent the people then that I believe like you just said Jen would really not represent the majority of people if I wasn't allowed to vote for three or four school committee members. Um, so I I completely agree cuz we make decisions

046for the region, for the district and not for WM schools and Hamilton schools. So that's I'm opposed to that. So >> that's true, too. Yeah. Like yes, >> I think it disenfranchises the voters to be honest. >> Yeah. I mean, well said, Julie. I have nothing to add, but I agree. >> So, do you want to go? Um, I could say that I I also agree that I think we're such a small region and I think it's better for the committee to be accountable to everyone and I also get concerned that this could create a Hamilton dynamic that is not going to be helpful in the school committee fulfilling its mission. >> Yeah, kind of an us versus them. >> I I think there's a risk of that. I'm not saying it would definitely happen,

047but I think it increases the risk of that happening. >> Yeah. So, >> and I think it's challenging because no single school serves a single community, right? And I just think it's I don't know. Yeah. I'm really I would just love to understand the rationale. It seems to add more complicated. >> I I And then I am going to because I really do have some stuff to say, but I but I am going to I guess a little bit to to be clear. I it's I'm not sure what the rationale is for a change, but to be clear, what they're proposing is not certainly not unheard of. This is it is, you know, so I just want I guess I want to give them that that like it's it's you know that that there are

048other districts that do something similar. Mhm. >> Um I have thought about this a lot and I know I I just kind of well I had mentioned it in negotiations but I but um so for me and this is what you all kind of were saying but for me having been elected by people in both communities when someone sends me an email or asks to speak with me I it doesn't matter to me whether they like I live in Hamilton but it doesn't matter to me whether they live in Hamilton or whether they live in Wenham I don't and I and while I as a human being I don't know I don't think that that would change the reality is is that one of the things is the way we are structured right now I

049am being held accountable by the people in both towns. So I >> it would not be wise for me to not pay attention to, acknowledge, listen to, respond to a wenom citizen. >> Um because I mean that's the way democracy works, right? like then you get held accountable by so for me as somebody was saying about it's creating a division where right now there isn't one. Um, so I feel one of the things I've always felt passionately about is that Hamilton is a unique community in that I think we really are one community even though we're two towns, which is a separate thought that I have about whether we should be two towns or not. But that's that is outside the four corners of this conversation. Wenwin or Hamham. >> Ham. >> You know what?

050Hamilton wenham. Everyone says it anyway. Let's see. >> Um but anyway, um >> the other thing it kind of >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Kind of seems almost like an electoral college. Like if we're going to make the board representative, we should make it representative based on population, >> right? Because otherwise you have like three or four people from Winnham representing onethird of Hamilton Wenham and all the people coming from Hamilton representing twothirds of the people in the district. >> Well and that's what we have now. I mean in other words it shifts here but it's a but in other words right now we do we have more Wenham people. Right. So um right >> I'm Wen. Dave Frankle, >> right? But the fact that we all have to sit here and say I don't

051even know who's from when is like >> that's what that's the point that I'm trying to make is that we don't >> it's so anyway I >> I don't see a benefit to structuring it that way >> and it's interesting to me that they are looking at the one at large which is interesting because I think that's your point like it isn't >> it balances out the population and balances maybe a little bit arguably like >> right like that that that you're guaranteeing being there's representation and then it's potential that either town could have um the majority. Um so >> oh sorry question when we have our next quintuple board meeting is this part of that meeting or is that meeting solely just on the the budget >> really budget? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >>

052Budget. >> Okay. >> Um so I I'm going to just say we don't need to talk about this forever. I'm looking I was looking for feedback for when I go in to that meeting looking for feedback to say >> we don't like it >> that in general that the the >> no thank you >> the committee sees value in the at large positions >> all of us being elected at large thank you um does anybody have anything else >> thanks for the update >> um the other part I just wanted to mention is that in general for a long time now we've been talking about this aortionment moving from the three-year to the 5-year rolling average and in general the feedback we've gotten almost just I mean universally is that is it generally a good

053idea there's some concern about how you get there like what the first you know like what the first couple years look like how it gets there transition but in general people are um I just want to express that there's some concern and I I I think we're all aware that there's a buzz in the community around being a concerned about what we're doing with the regional agreement and that there is some concern that because this part of it the aortionment part that I'm talking about now about moving that because it is to do with money and it is a financial part and it might have some impacts in the first couple years that there might be community resistance because it might not be fully appreciated and understood. in the community. So, the towns were just

054expressing some concern about bringing forward anything that's going to have any kind of a financial impact. Um, so I just want to make you aware of that and sort of I mean our intent is that was what we put forward. I think we're going to continue to put that forward that that's what we want. But I just wanted to share that the towns kind of are acknowledging some concern about bringing forth. >> That's more about accuracy, not >> I think the concern is about getting it passed that >> Oh, no. I know. But like fin the financial piece is about financial accuracy, not about taking more money, right? It's not about taking more money, but it would change like the, you know, it would >> who pay who pays, >> right? And and >> I

055see what you're saying. Yes. >> It smooths out the shift. >> Yeah. >> Um but it is a financial proposal like it is, you know, it is it possible or legal to have like a transition period in the agreement? And I say this just because I draft this with bylaws sometimes where it's like if a board is moving from no term limits, no staggered terms to staggered terms, you can have a period where you're like for 2 or 3 years sort of neither set of rules apply because we're in this transition zone where we're slowly morphing. I don't know all the details, but I know that our current agreement definitely has transition language from things that have been like it's they're still in there and it needs to be removed, but transition language when they

056move from one >> thing to another, it'll say for year one, this will happen. Year two, this will happen. Yeah. And then after that, this is the way it'll. So, I would say yes, there are ways to have transition language >> to just like make instead of it like a sort of the graph being aggressive one way or another in year one, just smooth it out over a couple fiscal years. So, I think that's something that could be discussed and negotiated, but >> um >> yeah, >> that is what we put forward to have it go in over a 2-year period. So, the first year would be a fouryear calculation, then the next year would be the full file. >> Yep. >> Just to smooth it a little bit more. >> Yep. >> Um All

057right. Does anybody have any other questions about that or Right. I'll continue to update you. Our next meeting is January 7th. I'll continue to update as we go. All right. So, weirdly, I will you will see the irony in these next two things. This is as near as I can figure the only time that we ever vote based on what town you're living in. And I I was like, I can't believe this is when this fell that we're going to have it back to back. But um so every uh three years the so Essex Tech School Committee um has representatives from both Hamilton and Wenham and the way that um and I want to just have shout out to Roger Smearage for helping me navigate this three years ago and then doing a wonderful job

058by sending me our email chain from 3 years ago so that we didn't have to recreate it. I was very grateful for that. Um but basically the way that this um works is that the moderator of each town makes a recommendation for a citizen from that town to serve on the um Essex Tech school committee. and then we the school committee um vote to approve that recommendation. Okay. Um you'll see that there are two here. The first one is um uh from uh John BO from Wam and the second is William Lennon um from Hamilton. and both are currently serving those. So, both are um currently on the Essex School Committee and both have letters, you can see they're from Essex Northshore saying that they are, you know, um in good standing and valuable to

059the team. >> All right, >> we need a motion. >> Yeah, why don't we start with a motion and then people can ask questions because it is all right. You live in Wam, correct? What? >> You live in one of them? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, make this motion. >> I can't make the Hamilton one. >> I don't think so. Go ahead. >> No, you can't. >> That's weird. Vote. Okay. Sorry. Vote. I move that we vote to reappoint John Buco to the Essex Northshore Agricultural and Technical School District. >> Second. >> All right. So, that has been motioned and seconded. And this is a vote only of the Wenom. >> Can I amend Can I amend that? >> Yeah. just to say to the um school committee, the Essex Northshore Agricultural and Technical School

060District School Committee. >> I just don't know if it makes sense. >> All good with that amendment. >> Yes. >> Okay. Friendly amendment by yourself. >> Okay. Um uh All right. So, anybody have any questions? All right. So, just Wenom. All those in favor? That is unanimous of the three WM school committee members and the motion passes. Okay. Um Megan, we don't want to do the honors. Whoops. I move that we vote to reappoint William Lannon III to the Essex Northshore Agricultural and Technical Institutes School Committee. >> Second by Amy Kberger. Anybody have any questions or further discussion? >> I do have a question. Yep. >> So, this is not a letter >> from the town moderator, >> but we can appoint Eric. >> So, we didn't get a formal letter from the town moderator.

061We did get an email. I just didn't think it would be appropriate to post an email on the >> Oh, I see. Okay. >> So, I do have an email in hand that his he has recommended Mr. Lannon to the committee. >> Great. Thank you. >> Bill Bowler has sent just sent an email instead of a formal letter. >> Got it. >> All right. Any other questions? All right. Looks like we're ready to vote. Uh only Hamilton people. All those in favor. And that is unanimous of the three members present. And the motion passes. >> Congratulations to you both >> and thank you for doing these. >> Yes. Um >> that's a big school for many. >> It is. Um next up and and thank you to both of them for their service. Like definitely

062>> that is thank you for doing that work. It's important. >> Um so uh we have a school committee conflict. If you will pull up your calendars >> to uh April 16th. Um, so we are scheduled for a school committee meeting on April 16th. It is now election day in town. And I have been informed by the town clerk that that is not acceptable. We can't have a meeting on election day. >> I see. I learned that the hard way several years ago. Um, so >> can't have it the next week. >> So what I would like to propose? no is to look at either the two days before either the 14th or the 15th which are not our regular Thursday um but would allow us to have that meeting before the election um >>

063okay great >> so I don't know whether anyone has thoughts on either the 14th or the 15th >> I teach Wednesday nights so there's no way for me >> so Wednesday night is not great for you what do people think about the 14th >> I can do either right now I could do 14 or 15th. So, >> feels really far away. >> I can do the 14th or 15th. >> Eric, 14th is okay. >> Why don't we do the 14th? >> Either one. Y >> 14th. >> All right. Um, I would entertain a motion about the 14th if somebody has one. >> I move that we move the school committee meeting scheduled for April 16th, 2026 to Tuesday, April 14th, 2026. >> Second. Second by Amy Kberger. Um, any discussion? All right. All those in

064favor? That is unanimous of the six members present and the motion passes. Thank you. >> Okay. Okay. Uh, next to Eric is the NEC annual report. >> Thank you. This is something we do annually. The um annual report is a requirement to be shared with districts. In the usually in the fall um late fall is when they usually finish it up. So because I am a board member um and we are a paying paid member of the NEC uh we are asked to present the annual report to the committee for um the public to know that it's a available and and and out there and just also because we are members of the uh NEC group that it's a nice way to see where what programs they have what some of the things that they

065they to um highlight for kids. And you can see here there's a list of all the schools that are involved in the consortium. Each of the superintendents in most of the surrounding schools are part of the consortium and on the board. There's over 20 of us on the board. And then um they have a number of schools that are uh within their program that house different levels of needs. So there are kids that are medically fragile for instance. So kids that we would not be able to keep in our school districts because we just don't have the the logistics, the staffing and things like that. So um this program at at uh the consortium really helps us to find places for kids who re need more than we can give them within our classrooms. And

066it could be emotional, behavioral, combination of both. could be medical um really uh kids that that have very specific needs. So this is uh a good opportunity for all the communities to as members have a place to send kids. It's it's full in some time of the year and other times it's not. So it's it's depending on what's available for space. But because we are members and we have we we have there are more spaces available for member schools and it's a reduced tuition for member schools as well depending on the the program kids go into. Um so this is a a good option. I just felt it was good to to show the um the annual report just to make sure that everybody had a chance to see it publicly and if there were

067any questions on it I will do my best to answer it. the the the program is looking now, just so people are aware, they host the recovery high school, which is uh for it was created years ago uh to help with kids who are really having problems with drug and alcohol addiction in the high school level who weren't making it at their home high schools. Uh this program has kind of shrunk down over the years because there are more needs within the more more needs being met within the school districts now. So they're looking to rebrand it, if you will, and recreate uh the services that will be available. There are still uh lots of needs out there for for kids, especially at the high school level. And uh they're just that's one of the

068projects that we're working on as a board to try to figure out how to rebrand that put them in a different space and um try to serve more more kids and and again all all of the tuitions kind of drive the the health of the of the consortium over over time. So certainly answer any questions or just want everybody to be able to see it. Um just a question on the cost effectiveness which is on page 22. It lists the NEC prices and those are highlighted in blue. Are the ones listed below also NEC schools or are they part of a different program comparison? >> The NEC comparisons uh schools are in blue >> the teal if you will and these are other schools and what their tuitions they're charging. >> Okay. >> Making sure

069I was understanding. Yep. You you have it dead on. Yep. NEC is in the bluish teal. I think might be green. >> Mhm. >> Um but it's in it's uh colorized so that you could see the difference. Just just a comparison. They do save us money. Uh we are also working with them on you may remember from late last year we working on a transportation program with them. So we're doing uh transportation consolidation by working with 10 other districts. We're trying to say, okay, if we're driving a child from Hamilton to a particular program, uh, we might be able to pick up a child from Ipsswitch on the way and save and split the cost in half. Um, so NEC has been working with that with us on that as well to try to save

070some transportation costs on the auto district transportation. We won't be able to know until a full year goes through how much how much that actually saved us. But it's it seems to be based on the combinations that they can do with kids. So instead of having a single kid being driven by a single driver, you can now have two, three, and even four in a van going to the same location, saving each of the districts a percentage of of the overall cost. And some of these drives are $300 a day. So, it's get it gets pricey really quickly. >> Other questions? >> All right. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um, next up, uh, is some budget. >> Everybody's favorite. Okay. Eric, >> did Janelle print these for David? These all

071the exhibits for tonight? >> Yeah, those. >> Okay, I might take >> I might cuz it's like for my course. No, help yourself. Absolutely. >> No, it's t also sit here. I'll just move. >> Oh, no. It's >> fine. I'll move it. It's okay. I don't know what that is. I know. First day I taught was like that. >> Yeah, bro. >> It's good. >> Still won't come up though. >> Oh, I want more pictures. >> They'll want to see the baby. Okay. Thank you for letting me speak tonight. Obviously, we are here to review our changes to the FY27 uh budget recommendation. On November 20th, you saw our preliminary budget. For this one, we're calling it our updated preliminary budget. Uh before we go through the exhibit though, I'd like to uh just briefly

072go over the exhibits. Hopefully, I can get it on this screen. Coming over. Yes. I can't see it on mine. So, the exhibits tonight I wanted to go over because I know it's a lot of information and a lot of them look the same. So, I just wanted to give you a little bit more of an explanation other than just the word exhibit. On the agenda, um so when I look at it, it's really broken up into two different sections. Uh you have your first section, uh which let me try to expand this Uh so the first section is really where I compare our preliminary budget which you saw on November 20th to our updated budget that you see tonight. So the first exhibit is the detail by school in by Desi category of the

073changes to our gross expenditures. So, in there you'll see a change of roughly $430,000. Uh, that's the detail of all the changes again from what I presented tonight to what we uh presented on November to what we're seeing tonight. Uh, the second exhibit is just the summary of all those changes. So, instead of it broken out by Desi uh by school by Desi category, it's all just lumped into one slide on one chart. Uh, so you can see the summary of it all. Uh the second section I tried to break it out uh from everything that has changed from our FY26 final final approved budget, the budget we're in now, uh to our updated budget, updated preliminary budget that you're going to see tonight. Uh so the third exhibit is the full detail again by

074school by Desi category that'll break out the whole uh $2 million gross increase year-over-year instead of the reduction of 430 uh on the first exhibit. The fourth exhibit is the complete account detail of all of the changes from our FY26 final approved budget to tonight's update. uh that has the complete list of approximately 500 accounts and how you come up with the assessment and all of our revenues. Uh and finally, the fifth exhibit is again a summary of all of those all of those changes from our FY26 final approved budget to tonight's updated budget. Uh so the reason I did this is really twofold. I know it's a lot of information and a lot of these presentations look the same. So I just wanted to point out that a lot of them are different. You

075really need to look at the title of the slide. Uh look at the title of all the charts and make sure you're comparing the same numbers. Sometimes you hear me talk about gross numbers. Sometimes you hear me talk about net numbers. What are our assessments? All those numbers are different and depending on which one you're talking about, you're taking in or ex uh adding in different numbers. So you really have to pay attention uh to the titles and what we're what number we're actually focusing on. And the second reason is I get a lot of questions about the budget and I realize that people are joining us at different times. So some people have been paying attention since November 20th. They spent a lot of time over the past month uh looking over our budget

076and recognizing what our growth is and where our reductions are. So they don't necessarily uh want to go through all that data again. So I just have the summary section and what has changed which is that top section. But then we have other people that are just joining us today and they don't really necessarily care about where we were a month ago. They just want to know where we are today. So I try to give it in two different formats. Uh those people who are just joining us and those people uh who just want to who have been with us and just want to know about the changes from uh the last presentation. So like my prior presentations, I'm not going to go in depth on the detail. I hope everyone got a chance to

077review uh the detailed presentation. I'm really just going to go into the summary uh and discuss the major differences uh between what we presented on November 20th uh and what's being updated to for today. So, in my mind, there's three major changes uh that take that we need to take into consideration for our updated preliminary budget. That's the uh recommended reduction in staffing that we'll go over in shortly. uh the changes to our capital stabilization transfer amount and our salary scale advancement. Um just to start with an easy one, our salary scale advancement, which is the second one off to the left. For salary scale advancement, uh just to give a brief introduction to it, I'm sure you're very familiar with it. Uh teachers have the chance to submit for salary scale advancements, meaning they

078move along the salary schedule and advance their degree. With that comes additional uh salary compensation. So the deadline to submit for salary scale advancement is December 1st. So when we prevent presented to you on November 20th, we really didn't know any of those numbers. Uh we didn't gain all of them until December 1st. In total we had 35 teachers submit for salary scale advancement. Out of those 35, 11 of them already submitted last year but have not yet met the qualifications to advance. There's two deadlines for salary scale advancement. The first one is the first day of school. The second one is the midway point of the school, roughly January 30th. So 11 of those individuals who submitted this year also submitted last year but didn't meet those qualifications on the first day of school.

079However, there's still an opportunity for them to meet it by January 30th. Because there's still an opportunity to meet it, I've already incorporated those additional salaries in the first iteration of the budget you saw. So, those 11 people are already accounted for. Out of those 11 people, six of them resubmitted for next year. So, they did it last year, they did it next year. Uh those six people, no matter what, will carry forward to the budget. the whole time. The other five people, if they do not meet the qualifications by the second uh deadline, January 30th, they will be removed from the budget after that and reduce it after January 30th. It won't be a large amount if all five of them don't meet it. It would probably be approximately $10,000. That would reduce the

080number, but we won't know that till February 1st or January 31st. Out of the other 24 people that uh remain, the total cost for their salary scale advancement added up to just under $100,000. So it was around $96,000. Uh that got added in to our budget that we presented to you last week. Just so you guys make the connection, when somebody sit uh requests a salary scale advancement and they move along, obviously they now have a larger salary. if they were to receive a step increment after that the dollar value now grows because every step every column your salary is growing. So if we have someone submit for a salary scale advancement if it happens their step increment increases and their cola increases. So not only did their salary scale advancement change but it also

081changed their step increment and their cola. So both of those numbers here uh have changed. The main one is the step increment. The reason we do not see the cola going up and I don't know if this works uh is on the negative side is related to the reductions we had. Uh I'll get to those in a moment but because we had some recommended redu reduction in staffing that also reduces our cola year-over-year. The net result of the salary scale advancement people advancing and the reductions going down the cola was a negative. Both of those numbers combined is a negative. That's why it's not on the other side. Nonetheless, it went up around uh just under $100,000. This is uh in similarity to last year. Last year's number, I believe, was 103,000. So, it's in

082line with what we saw last year. Uh outside of everything else, that is our biggest increase when you compare our uh preliminary budget to tonight's updated budget. Does anyone have any questions about that? No. Okay. So, the next biggest item or the biggest item is our capital stabilization fund transfer. Uh, if you remember, our original preliminary budget had a transfer request of approximately $100,000. For our updated preliminary budget, we in theory removed that $100,000 transfer and dedicated the remaining of it to offset END. So END last week I submitted to the state for certification. When I originally developed the preliminary budget, I knew the number I was putting in was a little bit low. I'm always conservative in my revenues, especially during the preliminary phase and we as we advance through the budget process, we

083refine those and get a little uh more detailed. So I knew it was going to be low. I thought it was going to be low around 150 to 200,000 uh based on our prior year unspent on incumbrances. Uh nonetheless, it was it has not been certified, but the number I submitted was about $250,000 higher uh than our preliminary estimate. So, we dedicated those additional $250,000 uh to direct END offset by expenses and categorize it as our capital stabilization transfer. So, even though you see here tonight there is an increase of $216,000 for capital stabilization, we are recommending that that be directly funded through an END offset. So, that does not increase our town assessments. It actually reduced our overall town assessments by roughly $53,000. Uh so the end result tonight uh we're able to reduce

084our overall net assessment by $600,000 while at the same time contributing $316 to our capital stabilization fund for FY27. I know that's a little confusing. the detailed presentation. I tried to do a stepbystep process so you could see what numbers change there and how I came up with them. I can take any questions about it or just go on to my next items. I do know it was a little confusing. Um I kind of hit you on those. So again, even though here we are showing a total um net uh total gross expense change of 423,000 because our revenues increased by approximately 250,000. That again that net assessment to the town is a reduction of just under $700,000 compared to our original preliminary budget. Uh moving on to our reductions. Uh for the moment I'm

085going to come back to the recommended staff reductions and just go over a few of the other items and then end with the staffing. So for our Essex County retirement appropriation, uh during our preliminary budget, I set our percentage increase exactly equal to what we received in 26. Our increase for FY26 was 10.98%. So for our FY27 preliminary, I set it exactly equal to that, 10.98%. Uh Essex County Retirement is not legally obligated to give us our appropriation number until the first week in December. We've received that number uh and it is a reduction of approximately $93,000. Uh so that's good. Our Essex accounting appropriation uh is not decreasing this year, but it's decreasing compared to our preliminary estimate. Uh that saved us again almost $93,000. Um, the next item and the next few items

086I'm going to discuss, uh, after last after last school committee meeting, uh, Eric and I left with some direction from you guys. We weren't entirely clear on where we wanted to go, but we knew, um, you wanted a lower number. So, the first thing we did was try to avoid staffing. Obviously, that's the last place we want to go. Uh so we really tried to focus on things that don't have direct instructional contact with children. Um and obviously avoid any new additions that we might have asked for in 27. The only new addition we asked for in 27 was the44 um elementary special education coordinator. We have a late retirement and the idea here was to get somebody in on day one so they can get familiar with the students uh and we can get

087a highly qualified candidate. If you wait till halfway through the year to hire someone, you might not get the most qualified candidate. So we had a request to bring somebody in day one. Um as we are going through reductions and looking at where we might be able to reduce expenses uh that is one area we focused on uh that is an additional not to say an additional full staff member it is only a point44 but is an additional member that we don't have today. Uh so we again we didn't want to eliminate a position that exists today before we pos uh eliminated a position that does not exist today. Does that make sense? So that's where we went first. uh that was approximately 57,000. Um from there I received uh four notices for retirement again

088based on our teachers collective bargaining agreement. They have a deadline of December 1st to notify us for retirements. We received four retirement notifications. Out of those four, one of them is a highly specialized position that we did not reduce the salary for. The remaining three we did uh because we confidently feel like those other three positions we can hire somebody at a lower salary uh than the retiring individual. So those three salaries that are incorporated here uh lowered the budget by approximately uh $54,000. From there we really struggled on where to go from there. Um, one of the things we looked at, I'm sorry it's not showing up on my screen, um, is athletic user fees. So, for athletic user fees, our preliminary budget, uh, incorporated a split between the student and the district of

08955% to 45%. So, the district contributes 55% of the athletic user fee and the student 45%. Um, part of our reduction process, we are moving that down 5% so it's an even 50/50 split. Uh that result of the 5% reduction lowered our budget by $32,000. This lowers the district budget, but I really want to point out it also lowers families budget. So now instead of the district paying part of that fee, this is going directly to parents directly to athletes to now cover that additional um $32,000. Um because we have lower retirements this year, we were able to lower our sick day buyback. Uh teachers only receive sick day buyback when they go to retire. Last year, I believe we had seven eligible teachers for sick day buyback. This year we only have four. So

090we were able to reduce our overall uh sick day buyback pool by approximately $22,000. Um the next few items revolved around uh late buses. So, right now we have two late buses at the secondary level. Uh, one services the town of Wenham, one services the town of Hamilton. Each one of those buses cost roughly $33,000 a year. Um, so we've recommended to reduce that down to one and have one late bus service both communities. Um, being fully transparent, one thing that will cause is obviously a longer bus ride. uh you now have one bus that's going to travel around the majority of both communities um which will result in a longer um time. But again, we are trying to stay away from direct instruction uh before we eliminate everything. Uh most of these other items

091here are self-explanatory. Uh it's wait room leadership uh and reductions to professional development. Again, trying to stay away from the classroom. If you look at that list, it really didn't get us very far. That's only about $200,000 outside of staff that we were able to focus in on. The only other place to go, as you saw in our presentation, is staffing. It represents almost 60% of our overall budget. Um so right now to get to uh what we thought your recommendation was last week uh we've incorporated about seven FTEES as a reduction for FY27. Uh if you look at the detailed presentation uh we try to spread it across the entire district. uh at the moment and this might change before the final. Uh we are estimating uh three uh a total of five at

092the secondary level and two at the elementary level. Uh I'm using an average salary of about $60,000. So, how I came up with that is I took all of our non-p profofessional status teachers and came up with an average cost for their salaries and use that as our baseline for what our FTE uh what our overall salary reductions would be. As we work through this process and we identify actual positions, which we have not entirely done, we have um ideas where the positions might be, but we have not identified actual positions at the moment. Once we do that, that number may change once we get into actual salary figures uh and see where those individuals actually are on the salary schedule. But at the moment, we're anticipating again a reduction overall of 7.44 FTEES. If

093you include the44, I'm just talking about the seven FTEEs, it's a reduction of just uh under 420,000. Uh again, all of these additions and reductions combined, although our gross number is only dropping by 423, our overall net assessment is dropping about 690,000. Um that is where we sit for our um updated preliminary budget. Uh tonight, we're really g to gather what you guys think about this and kind of what direction we want to go from here. our next meeting you will be voting on the tenative budget. Uh after that there is only I believe one other meeting before the final budget. So it would be um greatly appreciated to gather your thoughts on what we have here tonight for our reductions and what path forward you would like us to take and I can answer

094any questions. >> Um thank you. Um, yeah, I was gonna say let's start if people are okay. Let's start with questions first and then it sounds like questions and then you want opinions, right? You want both, but let's do questions first. >> Um, >> I forgot my question. Never mind. >> Okay. My question is, I mean, in capital Finance, you showed us what that reduction would mean to the towns to the percentage. Is that in one of the exhibits that I've missed? Um, >> yes. >> I have copies right there. >> Okay. Cuz that's something I just think the towns would be interested in. Yeah, it's >> I got >> And it was it was 9 something >> 9.81 and 7.9 uh 9 >> 9.87. I think >> it is in the exhibit number four,

095I believe. I >> 7.98. >> Okay. Because I think you when we were talking in the school committee meeting last week, we were um trying to keep the assessments under double digits for the towns. >> Yes, this accomplished that. >> Okay. >> Uh it's Wenom and they are sitting at about 9.97 I believe for their overall operating. >> I see. >> When you factor in both their operating debt, I believe it's 9.8. >> So 9.87. Yeah, >> I remember my question. >> Yeah. >> Um, so what's the effect of losing seven teachers on class sizes? >> Do we know? >> It's a great question. I don't think it would affect class sizes. >> Okay. >> You know, we can't assume they're all teaching positions because there are so many different positions within the district. just

096even within the the union contract, nurses, counselors, direct uh some of our uh staff that's not directly working with kids in classrooms. >> Mhm. >> So there's there's a wide span. So we're dependent where we could we talked about restructuring some of the things where, you know, we we've kind of morphed our MTSS program as we've moved along and gotten better and gotten more efficient. So there's probably room in there somewhere, but it would it would not like if you look at Buer, I take an example, you would not lose a classroom teacher in Buer. >> We try to we're trying to look at it from the perspective of preserving what's in what's going on directly with students face to face dayto-day. >> Thank you. >> Other questions? Then we're going to move on to

097thoughts and opinions. Yeah. Go ahead. >> I just have one more or one question. Do we have any updated information from the towns as to where they are in their budget process? Is their number shake out? >> We do. Um >> yeah. >> So if you remember last week I presented a number uh I think it was a million reduction for WEM. That's what they were requesting. um which would equal a two million $3 million overall reduction because it's two to one. Um Wenham has uh looked at it. They've made some reductions. Uh we showed them this as well yesterday and I think they've kind of gotten to the point where they're going to probably need an override no matter what. That's the feeling I got from yesterday's meeting. although not finalized. Nobody's budgets are

098finalized, so I don't want to raise any flags too early, but that's the the feeling I got. Hamilton, we did not have the town manager or our select board member in the meeting, but the sense we got is they're not they're not 100% sure. They the number that we originally got was to reduce 1.4 million, and they felt like they could manage that. So, from the original budget presentation, um I still think we're in that range, that one 1.5 million range to keep them from any sort of an override. But they have also uh announced, you know, new receipts, if you will, from the >> um Gordon Conwell deal that was just completed that put immediately put $100,000 in into their coffers. is it's supposed to be I think over time $500,000 total plus the

099increased revenues from taxation. So the there there may be an opportunity there, but I don't think they've ironed that all the way out. >> Mhm. >> I know um Joe was unable to be at the meeting yesterday, but my last conversation with with him was last Friday. So it's I just don't think they're there yet. They do. They're both targeting mid January to have their final numbers, which gives us, you know, it's it's good and bad where we're we're sitting on kind of still guessing, but I I still think the the magic number is going to be 1.5 on the Hamilton side, which would reflect to a third, you know, half of that to be the wom reduction. So, I don't know that this would do it for either town. Thank you. >> Anybody else

100have questions? >> Feel like I am. >> Okay. How about feedback? >> I mean, this hurts. Like, I wish we could fund everything, but we also don't want the state to take over and give us a one-mon budget at a time if it doesn't pass. >> Well, thank you. >> Other people I mean, I just have to reiterate that once again, the um neediest students or um people that need the most services, it seems like are going to, you know, get the short end of the stick with the late bus elimination, increasing the athletic user fees. Um, it just seems like I just wanted to highlight that, but I don't I don't personally see where we can go because obviously if the late bus elimination means a staff member stays, I mean, then what are

101you going to do? So, I don't like the seven FTEEs. I mean, I wish that I wish that that actually would entirely go away, but I'm just not sure how we can show the towns that were cutting the budget in good faith, but explain budget cuts mean actual people losing their jobs and actual services being disrupted because I don't I don't know. I know that people in theory understand that, but I don't know if they really do see the effect of these of these budget cuts. So, I don't know. >> Can I just throw one caveat in there for those seven FTEEs? Don't forget we use a round number um of 50,000. It's it's roughly 60, but we have to subtract for uh unemployment. So, because we have to pay that out, so it's less

102than 60. So, we use that as a round number. And when you look at that round number, if you had a singleton position, and I I'm not going to I'm not going to use anybody's position cuz people will freak out, but if you had a person who has the only person that does this job in the district, and they were the person being reduced, generally they're probably paid in the 80 $90,000 range, maybe $100,000 range. So that would be a higher cut reducing the number of FTEEs that way. You know what I mean? Because remember the FTE is a planned around $60,000 each for those those seven FTEEs. So it it's it depends on where the cut comes from, the reduction comes from. It doesn't >> it's not necessarily like it's exactly >> $48,000. Thank

103you. I took my glasses off. $418,000. um because it could be dependent on the positions that are reduced, removed. >> Okay. >> It could be less. >> Um I want to speak to sim something similar to what Julia said. Um the I've thought a lot about the late bus and the athlet athletic user fees. Um, I come down a little bit differently in that I really feel okay about the late bus. I feel like I'm okay. I would not be okay with eliminating the late bus altogether because I think it speaks that it the kids who need it the most need it the most and it needs to be there and I think it's important and I'm okay with it being one bus for the two towns and it taking a little bit longer. Like

104that feels okay to me. Oh, but I also sorry I didn't I didn't want to mean to insinuate first of all that the leus >> is not for everybody. No, it is for everybody. >> Yeah, but then now I don't want that to come across. >> Um but you know for people whose parents work in >> Right. No, no, no. I'm a I'm actually agreeing with you that like >> I just I feel like I insinuated that and I didn't need to. >> Um so I feel comfortable with the and like it's okay for us to have differences. I feel comfortable with the late bus to cutting it down to one. I do want to speak to the athletic user fees. It is as as Vinnie noted, it is a small, you know, relative to

105the whole amount here is not a ton of money, but I am not comfortable changing. I feel like it's going back on a promise. I feel like we have tried and stated that a goal is to continue to try to reduce the amount that families have to pay. I don't think I think there should be no user fees at all. I think it's kids should be able to participate in sports in the musical in whatever all this we talk in this district we talk about the you know the second day of school this after school all and it and it's real that being said I'm okay with keeping our athletic user fees where it is with holding steady but I'm not okay putting more of the weight back to the parents. I So even though

106it's not a big chunk, it doesn't that's my feedback on that. Um like everyone else, I think everyone feels the same way about staff reductions. Of course, you know, of course it's not what anyone wants, but I think this is what at least for me when we were saying this is what we want to see. We want to understand how to reduce this budget in a meaningful way so that we can show the taxpayers that we are doing that. This is somewhat what I expected and I feel I think it's the right thing to do. I that's not an easy thing to say, but that's what I'm saying. Um, that's my feedback. Other people, >> I just wanted to say I appreciate this breakdown and like the level of detail that you gave us about

107how you found all these categories or all these lines. Um, and just to agree like the seven FTE is it bothers me. you know, it's hard to think about people losing their job, people losing um certain parts of their day. And it's hard to because I don't I don't want to know exactly like what positions they are, but it's hard to say, you know, I'm sure every single one of those positions are important. So, it's hard to say like whether I guess it doesn't matter which positions they are. So it I just want to acknowledge that it's really difficult and I feel so you were talking about the athletic user fees and last meeting I said something about like it wasn't about the user fees it was about um I think the retirement um paying

108the retirement thank you where we were you know we had made strides like since the time I've been here those were two things that we had made strides on so it kind of hurts to slide backwards I would I would rather see a slide back in athletic user fees than, you know, if that saves one more person's job personally, but I definitely understand what you're saying about how like that's such an important thing and we made a big leap there. So, this was not helpful at all what I said, but I just wanted to acknowledge all of that. Mhm. >> I I have a question. Um kind of relating to our conversation earlier about the regional agreement and its approval processes and the change in the funding formula. Am I correct in understanding that there's

109not going to be any change in the aortionment formula for this budget cycle? >> That's correct. >> Correct. Yes. Okay. So, it would be for next year. Correct. Okay. >> At the earliest >> or even a future year. >> Okay. Yeah. So, not for this year. Okay. >> Anybody else? To Vinnie's point, this is kind of our >> this is your moment. Recommend changes. Um, >> normally we do not >> um change much after the tenative. Obviously, you can change whatever you want all the way up until the final. Um but it only it does only gives you one opportunity to see your change after the tenative. Um so now would kind of be the time if you feel like this is the number you almost want to move forward with uh to town meeting

110or can I just add add something? >> Sorry I just I I think it's important to add something from yesterday's five chairs meeting. um the conversation we had where we were talking about override uh in both scenarios. I think it was Ben Thyman that made the comment like, you know, the one thing he was concerned about is that everybody's quote doing their part to reduce the amount of override if that were the case. And I think that's an important thing for us to remember. You know, it's it's uh if this goes to the towns for an override, it's four votes. Um if it fails, then what happens? Then we go back. We have 30 days to go back and review the budget, make changes or not. You don't necessarily have to. There's nothing that says

111you have to make any changes, but you do have to go back and quote review it and then uh within a 45day window from that fi second final vote, you need to uh bring it back to the towns for another vote. So timing is very tight. If if it gets to that point in the conversation, I just worry about is this enough to say, hey, we are doing our part, if you will, because I think no matter what in Winnham, I think they're going to end up in an override situation. I cannot nail down Hamilton yet, but you know, I'm I'm not I'm not I'm guessing if we're here, we we probably are in both communities, but I just want people to be aware of the process. I'm not sure everybody understands what the process

112is. When will we know that? Because I mean that's kind of what we were talking about like if we can get out of override territory that would be wonderful but without that information >> how are we supposed to make a decision? >> Right. And I think it's really challen especially we're talking about potentially I mean it feels like everybody said this we've we've looked at everything we can except for now additional >> staff cuts and that's a very difficult decision to make if we don't even we're not even operating with both sides of the information that's really difficult decision to make at this point I feel like >> yeah it's >> frustrating it's frustrating because We you know I I do I the last meeting what it seemed like was if we didn't cut a

113million for Wenham and maybe 2 million for Hamilton no matter what we would go and override right so that's that was the information we were operating from and now it sounds like it's actually completely different but so I'm I guess like I'm I'm as I said last time and I've said in capital finance and I've said or I'm okay with pushing for an override it because we can't cut $3 million from this budget. Um but if it's something where we cut $45,000 more, I mean that's really important information to have. So I know I know it's not either of your fault, but I feel like that to me would be >> right if we're that if we're that close. Are we close? Are we are we off? >> I don't like think we know. I

114mean, I think >> I mean, I don't and it's nerve-wracking because I don't want to speak for the towns and we don't know, but it I mean, it was even in the paper. I mean, it Wenom is looking likely at an override that >> you know, regardless. Um, but I think your point is a good one. It would be good to know if it was a razor thin thing like, oh, >> or is it like a million dollars more, >> right? But if it's like if you cut $20,000 more then Hamilton doesn't need an override that might be good information for us you know but I think we're not going to know that >> right the overall question >> right so I guess the question here is to to that like to acknowledge that this

115is significant from >> the preliminary budget and the most significant part of what is occurring here is that you know it has a 7ft FTE staff reduction on it and that that's real like that like that. But I think what Eric was talking about about the towns sort of saying that in order to in order to present an override that the idea is that the towns will need to see that like they're having to make difficult decisions that we are also having to make difficult decisions that >> um so I don't know what that number is like whether they feel they're going to feel like seven FTEEs is sufficient. But I I think it's meaningful. I also think I mean overall our enrollment if I recall correctly our enrollment increased by 37 students. So to

116say we have an increase in enrollment of 37 students and a 7 FTE reduction in staff to me says to the towns >> right that's worth >> that like this is significant that we are making sacrifices. I mean that's >> yeah and those definitely things you want to highlight along the way when as we continue these conversations. Oh, I mean that's significant. >> I think I think I mean the conversation that we've had with the towns and the numbers they come forward with I think you're you're probably leaning into override on both sides. But but Wena made it very clear that they're they're looking they they're looking at override. I think no matter even if we came down to a million cut a million or a million and a half I think they're still in

117that position. Hamilton not so sure. Mhm. >> If we cut a million and a half, would that put Hamilton under an override? Possibly. I just don't know the final of their revenue situation because they do have monies coming in from Gordon Conwell. They also have revenues coming in from the shift of the 911 to centralize it. >> So, >> um, so I to be clear, you all have free will. You can do whatever you want. But I guess I'd be interested in hearing if someone is if anyone is feeling like absolutely yes, this should be or absolutely I guess absolutely no. This is not what I want at all. I think it would be important information to provide that to Vinnie so that or if you're looking at this and saying this isn't anywhere near

118enough cuts. you need to cut more. I like I think that that's and again it's your choice whether to speak or not. I'm just sort of encouraging you. >> All right. >> But like if you're feeling like that, I'm thinking that would be helpful to the administration to know. >> I mean, I'll be honest. I have concerns about this. It is a 9.9% increase to Winnham. Do you anticipate that will pass? >> I think it's going to be a tough cell. >> If this is what we tough cell, >> I think from both Eric and I, we would really need your help to get out into the community and spread the word about the budget >> and >> cuz this will be difficult. >> Yes. And >> both sides. I mean, I think Hamilton Hamilton

119if we we stay here at this point, it'll be difficult. It'll >> y >> it'll be a it'll be a it'll be a lot of work ahead of all of us to to be able to make sure people understand the impacts. But I I you know Vinnie and I have talked a lot about this. We don't think this is enough. When you start saying okay what what kind of work did the towns do to reduce their budgets? What kind of work did the school district do to to reduce their budgets? I think because they perceive us as such a big chunk of their budget. >> This is this would probably be to them like okay well we thought but it's not. >> We are a big chunk of their budget. I mean that's and and

120>> big chunk of >> while I think >> right and while I think we and the elected officials in the town do understand that these percentages you know every I think we all understand about the END and what happened last year and why these percentages look the way they do it's really hard to communicate about yeah why um so if you if we're looking for more I'm assuming the only place is more staff I mean you aren't presenting any other >> that was my question >> yeah I mean we don't know we we could get revenues I mean we generally get small amounts like Medicare is one of the but it's not a lot of money >> right >> and across the district I think we have $80,000 in Medicare their revenues approximately. So it's

121not like a huge number. We we just estimate based on the year previous. Uh so numbers will change into January, but not dramatically. >> So how many to Jen's point, how is the next staff cut, the one that causes our class sizes to change? >> It depends where you where you cut from. It it honestly depends on where you cut from. If you look at it's going to impact kids >> because you're looking at supports, not necessarily a classroom teacher, but it could be some support personnel. It could be some programmatic personnel. Um, so it's hard to say. It's really when we looked at it from this perspective, and again I said it last meeting, I don't want to rattle the staff, but they're rattled. They they know they see this is coming. Um, so

122we're trying to be delicate about making any grand announcements anywhere, but we we would again try to stay away from classrooms. We really think the district and the people who move here for the schools >> enjoy the smaller class sizes. You know, they they'll be a dramatic shift in some class sizes. I mean, we we took um out of those seven, three of those are to lean towards the high school because >> we know there's a little bit of room there in their class sizes. When you look at their overall, go back to the enrollment reports and start to look at the enrollment reports. What does that look like? But if you go 10, 12, 14, you're going to get into places that affect kids pretty pretty quickly. I guess I have I have a

123question for my fellow Wenommites. This is the most we've ever split between Hamilton and Wen in a meeting ever in my existence. Um, what percentage do you think would be palatable >> other than zero? >> Well, I think there are so many different constituencies, right? I mean, there are people that probably wish they could pay everything the district needs, and they just don't have the household budget to do it. There are seniors who are on a fixed income and can't want to stay in the community and can't downsize in the community and want to are not against the school, but can't pay more, you know. And then I also think that um there are other families that would be willing to pay a lot more that they think of it as a good value for

124what they're getting for their their taxes. I mean I wish that we had other levers at our disposal like you know real estate circuit breaker provisions and things like that that exist in other municipalities that we don't have at least not yet in Winnham. Um, you know, and I think that this is just a hard economic environment. You know, Beverly's looking at a deficit. I've seen in the news like Lynfield, Stonem. I mean, this is a this isn't just a Hamilton wenham problem right now. I think between inflation, chapter 70, Proposition 2 and a half, I mean, you have all of these intersecting challenges, right? At the same time, um, I I don't know. I mean, I think that there's a definitely a group of people that have lived in Wenom for a long time

125and remember years of successive overrides and all these issues and I I think the challenge in this moment will be to evaluate this on its merits >> and not like well this happened before and you know I think sometimes it can be really hard in when maybe in Hamilton but I don't know I'm more of a when person I guess to leave the past in the past, you know, to really say like, yes, maybe 20 years ago there were problems in the district or we did have many years of successive overrides, but the this year this is for a different reason, >> you know. So, >> yeah, you saying you remember the successive >> override? Yes. >> So, I So, I think there's, for lack of a better term, some like um muscle memory resistance

126against override because Oh, that's happening again. And I think yes, the override is happening again, but not for the same reasons that it happened before. >> So, >> and that'll be hard. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Just so people are aware, Winnham, sorry, Winnham actually gave us >> an approximate number. They were trying to get their increase at around 4% and ours at about 4.1%. That was what our conversation was regarding like okay what's the number we we didn't get that same number from >> Hamilton but Wenham was you know they were hoping >> 4% 4% they could probably keep it under >> but that's a $600,000 increase which is >> you know again cutting a million2 out of just the wom side which would reflect right >> huge Right. >> Um Vinnie, I don't know

127maybe you know I don't know if you I don't know how to frame the question. Let me take a moment think. Um, no, I think what Kristen said is important about just thinking about it is a really diverse number of reasons that people could have for being either for or against. It's very important to remember that that there's not just one reason, >> right? >> And that's and I think that everything you said applies to both towns. There's nothing Right. Right. >> Yeah. Um, Jen, >> what would happen if we just didn't replace the You said there were three teachers retiring. >> We just didn't hire somebody new. >> I don't think that's feasible. In some of them, you have like a third grade teacher where there's already a bubble at the school. It would

128>> make your class size enormous for that one instance. I'd have to look at what the other ones are. >> Third grade is a good example. sort of look at it from the >> we're building the teacher retires in. Now, if you say, "All right, we're not going to add that. You're down one quote third grade." Those kids need to go somewhere. They can't necessarily be split up >> in that building. They might have to go to another building, >> which would be weird to say, okay, we're going to take >> one class of third graders and spread them out in Buer and Cutler. So, that's what we were talking about. I think in capital we might have talked about that like what does that restructuring look like when you put grade levels in each

129building like K prekk here 1 two three at at Cutler four five at winter I'm just this is just random numbers but something like that allows you more flexibility but you're still going to bump your class sizes up because we do have bubbles in many of our >> so we have seven and we have some pretty pretty good you know numbers in some of our classes that you'll be looking at going from an average of 19 to an average of 23 or four at your elementary level. >> I was just thinking if we did have to replace staff, the people who are retiring are obviously at the higher end of the scale. >> Correct. >> So if we didn't replace those three, we're saving more money than if we got rid of three towards the

130bottom. Yeah, but we look at it like you there's a number in there. There's a savings number of 54, 377, which is basically taking those top salaries of if I'm retiring at 90, we say to the principles, you got to bring somebody in below masters 5 is generally the target we give them. >> So that's what we come up with that 54,377 number. Yeah. >> Um, sometimes we have to be careful with that because a specialty position like a a school psychologist, >> they're super educated. So, they come in high on the salary scale automatic and you have those a problem. So, it really depends on who's >> who's not coming back and who's going who's retire, you know, if somebody's retiring as their their classroom teacher and they're at the top scale, we're pretty

131good there. It just it really depends. SLP or or hard to hire positions like a physics teacher, you got to keep your doors wide open because, you know, currently in the state, physics is a great example. There's not enough physics teachers for the high schools in the state. >> So, we're fortunate to have one and those those are things you want to hold on to, you know. So, this this is I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to phrase this question accurately, but if I'm looking at the top top top line of everything, our operating overview, the the change year-over-year is 5.93%. >> Correct. That's gross, >> right? Yep. >> Gross. >> Yeah. No, I know. So, I mean, I know it gets like I want to sort of think about I'm trying

132to think about a way to think about the E and D and the way that this is really more about messaging, I guess, like that like the increase. I don't know. I I don't that's more of a messaging question. My other sort of kind of question is I I guess yeah I on I wish we had sort of more another step in between because on some level yeah I'd like to see what it looks like to try to pair this down maybe a little bit more. At the same time, I'm hesitant to say go and do that because the next thing we're seeing is a tenative budget that we're going to vote on. Um, but I I I guess I'm torn because I agree that I from a town perspective, it's it's you know, especially

133when you're in that 9 8 9.9% increase, which again is really because part of it, a major part of it is because of what we adjusted last year, But I don't know. I guess I'm torn because in some ways I see that that making some deeper cuts, showing a good faith effort to the towns, showing the people that we are really tightening our belts and really making some difficult decisions to lower those percentages. I seems like the right thing to do. At the same time, I'm sort of scared about any override. I'm fearful that any override might not pass. And it like I don't know that reducing that percentage, you know, a small like I don't know that that's going to get us where we need. I don't like in other words otherwise I don't

134know what the magic number is but I I sort of think that there's the biggest hurdle is people being willing to vote for an override and then the secondary hurdle is how big is that override like I I'm >> with that >> right >> so yeah I think we should try to make it as as low as we can and I guess I would like to see what that looks like to be lower than this but I don't think it's reasonable to try to par like I don't know. I guess >> we're also going to be trying to get the roof through too. >> I know. >> Yeah, >> I know. >> That's 5.8 million. >> Yep. >> And I do think for people that are hoping that there would be some sort of, for

135lack of a better term, progress on like school renovations and things like that. I mean that hasn't even really beyond the community conversations that are in the works really is not even on the radar for this budget cycle. >> No. >> You know um when we have a tenative budget just as a new person I just want to make sure I understand. So the we vote to approve a tenative budget at our next meeting. >> Yes. >> And then that goes to the towns. >> Yes. The tenative number goes to the towns, but >> you can still adjust. >> We don't, right? They go That's very >> We send it to We send the number to them. >> Yep. >> At least notifying them that kind of this is the number that we're generally going

136to be in by our final budget. But there is still then we meet with the town with >> that quintuple board meeting >> on January 20th, I think. >> Yeah. And then you vote the final I think at the meeting after that. >> So are we not likely to have a full picture of the town budgets until that quintuple board meeting as well? I mean are we all sort of triangulating around each other like like if Wenom cuts its municipal budget? Are they concerned we raise our budget? You know, are we all sort of trying to kind of balance like all the competing needs of everything, you know? So yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, we we had conversations just the with the town manager, town administrator, their business managers about trash, >> right? >> How

137they're moving money around to cover the huge increase in trash, their trash expenses. Um, which is seems to be a big a bigger number in Winnham. It's it's sounds quite pricey in Wenham, but the um insurance is the other thing. We usually see the towns go up almost double what ours is. They're at the like 18, 19, 20% increases. So, they're trying health insurance. >> Their health insurance. Yeah. So, they're trying smaller numbers of people, but still >> it's a big jump on on your budget. And I think that's part of the the conversation where the three entities are trying to find that balance like what's the dance you do to make the pieces fit. I think Wenham has conceded that it's not going to work this year because you know that they're they're in

138a tight situation even even before that you start to add in any increases from the school side. >> The Hamilton side has been uh a little harder to to get a look at. They told us about new revenues and things like that. Just not you know the the number that we were given that 1.4 million. That's >> right. You know that's remember was it two years ago when they said cut a million and >> oh gosh we were all standing sitting in the same meeting. So it's I'm not sure yet on Hamilton. It's it's hard to make this decision right now to say >> you know Hamilton's needs to be at this number to not to be an override. That's not and they're saying mid January >> by the time they get their numbers. That's

139what they told us yesterday. I I somewhat agree with Dana that the biggest obstacle is just the psychological idea of the override and that the actual amount of it within reason is less material because I think the amount everyone's question will be what is that for me? So, I think until you kind of know how that filters through to your individual tax bill, it's hard to make a decision on that almost, I think, if you're just a voter because it's like, well, how, >> you know, oh, if I I'm just making these numbers up cuz I have no idea what they would be, but it's like, oh, well, for another $300 a year, I could just keep all this and I would be like, sure. You know, I mean, it's really hard. >> And there's

140a big difference between it, right, being it could be 10 times that and >> Exactly. and it's like well for $3,000 a year maybe we can't do that you know so I think it's very it's a kind of a very abstract question that I think >> and that's kind of why I'm wondering and I know the town of when at least with >> the school consolidation and other things they have really tried to sort of break it down for people of like if your house is valued at this this means roughly this for your tax bill and I think that's kind of that's the question is like >> and and I do think that will would all happen but you're right it happens after >> right >> and so >> and then we have to

141sell it sell it to everybody um >> the hard thing about the the quote override number is even though you're handing say okay when I'm I think it's 1.2 >> 1.29 million is the increase they may still be able to absorb some of that money so the override's not the full 1.2 two. It's >> could be 900 or something, >> right? It just depends on where their where their cut off is for the overall, >> right? Well, I mean, that makes a lot of sense because obviously they always would anticipate some inc I mean, in other words, there's always an increase, right? It's just how much of that. So, the whole 1.2 is not >> Yeah. Well, and a lot will depend on whether the towns roll the school budget into their regular budget because

142sometimes they do and it really it can like you said reduce the percentage but if they don't we're looking at the nine >> I think they typically put it separately I think >> the last couple of years they've rolled it in at least in one of them >> because we haven't asked for overrides >> in 21 I think one had one >> you had one had one in 21 remember we were I mean, I don't I don't know how helpful we're I mean, I like if now I'm looking at the not this page, but the the um the superintendent's up updated budget recommendation combined operating and debt service town assessments both inside and outside. It's the one that's got Hamilton and then Wenom and then the total but and that was where we were just

143talking about the 1.2 to his Wam's portion and the overall combined assessment including everything and including the debt service and all that is is 8.56. And I guess I sort of feel like maybe we should Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. I guess I like I we're trying to do all these things to look at each different thing individually and maybe we should just be looking overall and saying like okay, you know, that's the combined assessment there is that it's an 8.56% increase. I don't know what the in that increase would have been if we hadn't used the END last year. But I I don't know. I >> would be about five and a half%. >> Well, and that was going to be my point is that like we did that, everybody knew we were

144doing that. Select boards, we knew that. And if we're if I want to look at it and say like, okay, we'd be at five and a half. Maybe we're hearing that they're shooting for more like four or four and a half. So maybe this needs to be a percentage point lower. I don't know if that's true. I'm just trying to like think about it in a not like oh my gosh it's 8 and a half% cuz that's we knew that it was going to be very high when we used the END. >> Seven and a half% is going to be better like in people's minds. I just >> well this is what I'm saying is that I think in the I actually think that >> we're Kristen's point there's a whole diversity of people we

145don't know everybody's going to have a different point of view but I do think that the elected officials that have been on this journey with us all along and knew what was going on with the END and understood >> might it might make a difference I think >> for them and it's important to Vinnie's point about us and other elected officials communicating to the public. Oh, that's a fair point. And actually, Dana, when you put it that way and when we use the combined number, >> I mean 8.56%, right? That's the roughly $3.3 million that's roughly the entire operational budget for Buer. And when you put it in terms like that, right? If we put it in terms like that where we're saying we want no override at all, then say goodbye to all of

146for for like just hypothetical, but that dollar amount is equivalent to >> school >> this entire school going away. And so I think when you combine it and you talk about it in those terms, to me that's >> that's kind of a scary prospect to think about if if that's what >> if taxpayers, right, some taxpayers want no override at all. That's what it would take to get there. And that's that's a really hard pill to swallow, >> right? >> I think >> but no override doesn't mean no increase. In other words, some amount of increase can be absorbed. >> But what I'm saying is like >> I hear what you're saying. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I know. I think I think like that kind of high level messaging is good cuz

147I don't feel as worried about all the elected officials knowing what's going on. I'm more worried about the casually involved voter >> who's not really paying attention until and I shouldn't say not paying attention but just is not you know able to or is not engaged in the process until to close to town meeting. I think the other piece of this is that last year we used savings to balance the budget. We don't have that savings this year. >> Correct. >> Because I think all of a sudden if you're like we need $3 million to keep Buuker open. That's I'm concerned how that will translate. >> That's right. >> Then people will be like, well, how of a sudden why are all of a sudden we're 3 million in the hole? Like here we go

148again, you know? Like so I think it has to be not too layered and nuanced but like we had savings last year, we don't have it this year. We have to have revenue, you know, and just keeping it as simple but accurate as possible. >> I think it's important to message that we used savings last year, >> right? >> Or not >> not we had it. >> We're not going to use it like that. That that's right. when you have savings, you want to use it for things that are one-time things, not for your operating budget, >> right? >> Um, so I I think this could go on forever, but I think we need to sort of give a little bit of direction and then we need to move on. I don't know. >> Well,

149you Vinnie, you and Eric were saying you think we need to cut it even more. I mean, I know you don't want to, but you're thinking from an optics perspective and from the the percentages whether it'll pass or not. >> I'm just concerned. >> And I'm concerned about that, too. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Nobody Nobody wants to cut. >> No, of course. Oh, no, no, no, no. I didn't mean that. Of course. >> To my Every percentage is about 400 something thousand. Yep. >> 430,000. >> 390. 89,000%. >> Okay. Um, so >> I have an idea, Dana. Maybe we should work backwards. Like is our goal to get it passed? That's our goal. What does that mean? And what will that take? I'm not sure is that I mean obviously what >> Yeah, but

150I'm just saying like what what are the what increases the likelihood and then maybe we can I don't know. >> Go for it. >> Well, I don't know what would increase the likelihood. >> Um other than having no override, but I don't think that's possible. >> I don't either. >> So I I think we either need to be comfortable with the fact that there might be an override or we need to say absolutely not. I that's what to me what I think the decisions are. I maybe I guess what I will say is I I I and I again this is my impression. This is just my impression. My impression when we were meeting with the uh chairs was that they wanted it to be less than this. Mhm. >> But I didn't feel, and

151I not putting words in, this is just my impression. I didn't feel like anyone was saying, you know, just like level funded from last year, cut it all. I mean, I think I think there's a real there's a there's an understanding. I mean, we've been messaging this for a year that like this was likely to under happen. So, I guess I feel like to, you know, that like maybe there's more that can be done. It can be paired down, but we're still going to have high numbers. I do think it's a good faith thing to try to pair it down. And I I'm sorry that I know you tried to get us back on track about like >> No, but you're looking at the goal. The goal is to get it passed. The goal is

152to get the support of the community. What will what will that take? >> But to get it passed based on our while still presenting something that >> oh that we're proud of and we want to fight for >> holds true to our values like I I don't >> like in other words, you know, we could present as you know 0%. >> Right. No, that's a good point. like >> something that we would be proud to fight for and tell people about and something that would not compromise >> um services >> and it would be I wish the timing were different so that we had a clearer picture of where the what the towns were having to do but that's just the way the timing works out. There's nothing >> that's always been the way and

153there's not much we can do about it. >> That part makes it really difficult. >> Yeah. Um, >> and I think too, so going back to something Eric was saying a long time ago about potential class size changing, you know, we did really weigh out the effects long term of, you know, our reputation as a district and what that could mean for enrollment, you know, 10 years from now or whatever if we end up kind of dramatically shifting the way our classes feel. So that's another thing to consider. Oh, can you speak into that? >> Sorry. >> Um, >> I don't know like the override piece. I mean, I hate to ever ask for an override, but I feel like the way things are for everybody nationally, like there's should be some understanding about why

154we would need an override just the way things is costing so much more money. And I think we would be looking at an it sounds to me like we would be looking at an override even if we hadn't had the END situation last year. It sounds like what we're saying is that even if we were at 5.5 >> at least in Winnham it looks like we would have >> I mean break it down for Hamilton but >> so you know I guess it would be. So, >> oh, I'm just clearing my >> Somebody say something and then I mean >> I think >> somebody wrap this whole thing in a nice bow. >> I don't know if I can do that. But I remember the 2021 town meeting cuz we were outside in the tent

155in Pingryfield >> and the override passed then. And I think that the feeling was that, you know, like Eric made a really compelling presentation of like, yes, we're asking you for money, but we also have made these cuts. And so I think that people, it was a credible appeal that the district had done what it could do to bring the number down and then the people said fine. So, I I think the question is, is are the changes that we've proposed to the budget enough to kind of get over that hurdle this year? And it and it sounds like it's it might not be. You know, I think from what Eric and Vinnie are saying, and I think none of us I don't want to cut anything. You know, I don't my kids are elementary

156school students at Bucher. The small class size has been great for them. Not saying that that would change iter, but just, you know, I don't know that the amount that we're reducing is going to be high enough to get over that kind of hurdle. And I don't like necessarily sort of bidding against ourselves to say, well, we've already cut this much and now we're going to go back and cut more without any further feedback from the towns. I think that's what's hard about this is that it seems like there should be a a step of a sort of a counter from them of like, well, we're here and you're still here and then it would be easier to come to the together. >> And I I I I did again I it makes me nervous.

157I don't want to put words in there. I felt like Wenom was saying we were in the like that they were seeing that we were making a good faith >> effort and that we were not it was >> they wanted to see more cuts but I didn't hear them saying like you need to >> like that that's what I felt like is they felt like this was good and >> right >> like a little bit more would that that was my interpretation, >> right, >> what they were saying. And I think again Hamilton just has they some of their people weren't there, but also like they just are not far enough along. They have a lot of new a lot of new things in Hamilton to >> calculate. >> They're trying to navigate a lot

158of things as >> some of it really good and but you know still complicated. So when we first talked and gave you very vague guidance, that number that we were talking about, Vinnie, was um we were saying sort of show us what a million dollars cut from that preliminary budget might look like. And then there was a lot of people including myself saying like I don't the million seems too much. So right now we're at what did 700 you >> 750 >> 690ish >> 690. So >> 300. >> I guess what I'm saying is like is it really I think that I I know I gave that feedback that I felt like a million is too much, but maybe we need to know what that looks like. >> I don't know if you guys know

159that off the top of your head. >> So an overall So an overall cut of a million, >> right? Like that was the upper limit of what we talked about at our last meeting. over and I know some of it goes to I understand there's some of it is revenue some of it is >> so to get another 300 we've exhausted a lot of our nonp payroll options >> yep right >> so >> it's payroll you're looking at >> so five people five more five more teachers >> from >> so five more five more FTEES >> 13 Yep you'd be at 13 probably right roughly And >> again that number dependent on >> 12 and something else is added that's not but it is it is staff >> and I know this is in the

160materials but putting but I'm not going to find it super fast but putting it in the context of the schools and the buildings I mean how many FTEEs do we roughly have >> 300 right >> approximately 300 slightly under 300 yeah >> we're cutting three basically three 3 to 4% of our staff to get that up to a million >> again with increased student population not decreased >> some of those some of those staff may be non-professional staff so then you're looking at two >> right >> and I'm just going to use an example I'm not calling anybody out but ESP position >> they don't they're making between 20 and 30 so then you might need two to make up Right. Right. It's >> generally how we look at in the budget depending on what

161positions we're looking at. >> Right. >> It could be more quote FTEES, just >> not all teaching, >> counseling, nursing positions, things like that. >> I I don't know. I'm really torn because to be honest, this is this amount of money is what I was looking for at that last meeting. That's sort of where I was landing. I and this is about 690 we said right I was looking for 700 like I so I but again I hear the concern that it's just not going to be enough from the towns I don't know >> Jen um in a perfect world Vinnie and I think this is also to Eric where do you want it to be like where would you like that final number to I mean, I can give my opinion. It would be

162non override in Hamilton, but I don't I don't like what happens to the school district after that. So, I will leave that decision to you guys. Sorry. >> No, I know. I'm just wondering like >> Yeah, I think I I said it earlier. I think you're looking at a million and a half, >> right? >> So, cutting a million and a half. >> Yeah. From the original, go back to 3.8 and some change. >> So, another $800,000 basically. >> Yep. >> And I know we're only >> And that's no I mean that's still because I'm still so we're all still so unsure about Hamilton. I'm >> Does that keep us in an override situation? Some people would argue if you're going to go for an override, go for it, you know. But >> other people,

163you know, they were pretty clear. Went was pretty clear yesterday like we need you just to do a little more work. You know, I think everybody understands it. And then it becomes messaging. What's the message? How do we message it together as the three entities, >> but it's a it is a hit for the district. >> So, what >> $1.5 million is a hit. >> Yeah. >> For the for the district that will hurt. And does that happen again potentially in the next fiscal year because you have increased salary costs and things again where you're still >> just I wouldn't be doing my job to remind you that there is still 770,000 in END that is still offsetting this budget that will still be a problem next year and the year after until >> forever.

164Yeah. Until we >> next year to reduce it a little bit next year and then we reduce it a little bit. it it becomes as difficult as trying to pay off your credit card with the minimum balance. You just never get there unless you take a a big chunk of it. So, >> I well I mean I I do like I I know you're looking for an answer. We're obviously not >> giving one. I for me I think people should say what you really think. I mean for me I hear what you're saying. I I heard what I think I heard when I'm saying like you're on the right track a little more and we're there. So I guess what I'd like the tenative budget to be is some cuts from this. But again, I

165just asked about what getting up to that million dollars worth looks like and it's too much. It's too much. So, >> it's all staff, >> right? So, I guess what I'm saying is like I think that we can squeeze this a little bit tighter, but I'm not So, I guess I'd expect that the tenative budget is going to be lower than the one before us, but I think we're realistically not serving the students if we don't present a budget that is meeting are the values that we stand for and if that means it goes to an override then it's up to us to ask the towns for what we think the students need what we know they need. So that's where I stand is that I think it needs to be we need to really

166be as tight as we can and it should be cut more but not you know not a lot like for me I would I mean I I hate these cuts but I would not vote against this if it was brought to a vote. Um, but I would really have concerns if it went to 13 FTE. So, I can't say if I would support it or not. I'd have to see it. I'd have to weigh everything. I'd have we'd have to get the numbers from Hamilton. Um, but that gives me serious pause. But I do want to say that the work that you did here, while really, you know, it hurts, it's really thoughtful, meaningful, intentional, and good work. And there's nothing there's no cuts that are good. But I think if we're if we're going

167to move forward in good faith, I would not vote against this. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, this feels close to like level services as we could possibly get >> seriously >> with trying to achieve some savings even though it does unfortunately result in staff reduction. And I think if we go if we're cutting 13 14 people, when does that really start to materially change the district for students? >> You know, I don't know. It's difficult. There's too many moving parts here. It the two municipalities plus us. It's too many moving parts. >> It's hard when we're such a large percentage of >> the budgets >> different >> communities. you know, it's a 2 to one. When you start looking at the levy limits, >> right? >> You know, the the levy limit went doesn't increase

168by a million dollars every year. It's less than that every single year, which makes it >> a little more complex. And then all of the sudden everything we dealt with in the last two years with inflation and trash going up and the water all the water issues that both towns are wrestling with um you know the there's nowhere to get it from when you're I think Winnham's carrying 98% of of their revenue I mean their um expenses on on 98% of their residential houses. That's that's a big percentage. I mean that that's a tough one and and Hamilton's not much different. I think they're 95 or 96% >> dependent on residential taxes which puts them in a really difficult situation and I don't see any new growth >> coming not at least from the wom

169side I maybe down the road but that's not going to impact this budget or the next budget or possibly even the next budget. So when you start to look at those increases over time in each of the communities, Hamilton generally has higher increases across their revenues and their receipts, but they're, you know, when you when you start to iron it out, where is it going? >> It's a question. So, and I know, you know, they they're they're trying to maintain what they think is important for the community as well. And I I get that I get that argument as well. So, it's where does that where's that fine line of where we all kind of meet in the middle? I don't know that it will be that easy this year. And if you get an

170override, it might be a lot easier next year, but this there's still a lot of factors you don't know about, including >> insurance and things like that, >> negotiating new contracts in the next two years, >> right? I mean, that's sort of one of those things like I don't I was I mean Kristen was referencing like whenever that was 20 years ago when it was back to back to back to back to I don't really I mean I was a voter I was a parent. I don't know. But it is now that I'm here, it is sort of like hard to understand how did that happen year after year because it it seems like this if you were to get an override, it puts you in a better position for future years, but >> right,

171>> we saw that that wasn't always true. So, I don't know. I And that's not to rehash the past, but it is right >> to sort of say, you know, >> I don't know. I wish it were more realistic to sort of say like, okay, this is the three-year plan. We need to get from spending at this level to spending at this level. There's going to be three overrides. We're going to clear the END. You know, I wish it were more possible to kind of really plan and strategize that way. And I think it's so difficult, it seems to me, even as a new member, to be proactive in that way because you have all of these other interests to balance that you >> are you're basically it feels like we are basically trying to

172>> invest in our budget, you know? It's almost like what can we get away with this year as opposed to like what do we need, you know? And I'm not saying that that means we should just, hey, go for a $3 million override, clear the three END. Like, I mean, I would love to like have one really bad year and clean it all up, but I don't think it'll pass. >> Yeah, >> that would be my wish. Like, I'd rather have one really bad year than like three years of pain. So, >> I get what you're saying, though, cuz this feels reactive and we be nice to be incremental and reactive. >> Yeah. Like what we can do in the future. Okay. >> So, I think I've heard what I needed to >> I can't

173imagine that that's true, but >> thank you. >> But thank you for saying that so kindly. >> I know. >> Um All right. >> So, we will uh be here next time with a tenative budget. Uh hopefully it'll be a little different than what you saw today. >> Okay. And I mean in the in between time, I mean, you know, if you think of something right after this, please like go directly to Eric and >> with a great idea. >> Share more thoughts. >> I'm going to start buying Powerball tickets. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Can we make like a little If I win, can I donate? >> Donate to the How does it go through the ed fund? >> Yeah, >> probably. clean. >> Um, okay. Um, thank you for all of that and

174I'm sorry that that was so long. This is a hard thing. >> It's really hard. >> Um, all right. Let's just move through here. Capital finance reports. >> So, we did meet we obviously discussed the budget. Um, but we also looked at the capital projects list and decided um not to add anything new off of the list onto this year's budget cuz we're already looking for things to cut, not things to add. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. And that's more information about things that we >> you have on that list that we're not addressing. So, thank you. uh policy. >> Uh we haven't met since we all last met. Uh but we're meeting on January 26th. Excellent. Um >> there's only one thing to >> We only have one thing on the that agenda.

175>> Okay. Um negotiations. So we had a productive uh meeting with the uh ESP um >> union. um that the goal of that meeting was to set up ground rules and set up um our initial meetings and we achieved that. >> Great. >> So um and Yep. So that was good. Um and we have some meetings, two meetings scheduled in January um to continue those negotiations. >> Did I miss anything, Kristen? >> Okay, >> I think that's it. Yeah, thank you. Um, secretary report. I think you did a nice one last time, right? Yeah. So, do you have more? >> No. Well, um, I want to celebrate capital finance. We have all our minutes in. >> Not necessarily approved all yet, but in >> budget. >> Um, so that's amazing. And then I have two

176missing minutes for policy, but I think you said that Dave Fleeter had written those or the the 2000. And I'm honestly just looking at 2004 2005. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> If we go back to 2017, we can't do it. >> So, um >> there's just two from policy. I can send those dates to you again. Negotiations, uh I don't believe have any missing from the last >> 2 years. >> Nice. and executive session and I'm 100% sure this is probably me has like have about like three or four missing. >> Okay. >> So I have to >> at the executive session do you have notes on things that are like Janelle has a draft but we have >> Yes. Julia drafting or Dana has draft. >> Okay. But because the same thing like we can't

177approve executive session minutes until we have another executive session but if but Janelle could hold them in a secret box. >> Okay. And also, I haven't updated the spreadsheet yet either. >> Are approved and held in there. >> Okay. Okay. All right. >> Yeah. So, that's so that's a good way to start the new year. >> Okay. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. I appreciate you being on top of that, Julia. >> Sure. >> Thank you. Um I don't know that. Do you have any in your inbox report? >> I have no in our inbox report. I'm very quiet. >> Um thank you for that. Um, so, uh, I was going to say a couple things in the chair, but I mindful of what time it is. Um, Eric, can you just remind us

178all of the community conversation dates? I think I have >> on my calendar. >> I just wanted to remind people. I have January 7th. >> Mhm. 10:30. >> At 10:30. And then the other one is January 29th. Is it at 7:00 or >> 7:00? we kind of went in the middle of the ground there. >> Okay. So, I just wanted to remind people about those conversations. Um, and um, I encourage obviously anyone and everyone to come, but also I encourage the committee to try to think about people that you know in the community that are thoughtful um, people with diverse opinions. like it would be really great if you could think of someone and I just as a personal note I would encourage you to think about someone that you maybe hold different views from

179but that you have good conversations with that would be a great addition to like >> so the first one's at the library but the second one's at the school right >> correct >> it's at the high school >> um right anybody else >> the mailings went out just yeah the mailing did go out. >> I got mine today. Excellent. >> Excellent. All right. >> I did not, but I >> That's why we have this live here. Do you >> I It probably makes sense to post those as public meetings only because >> Yeah. So I I think it and I can think about what the agenda should be. But I think just to be safe, we should post them as meetings so that if a quorum of the school committee shows up >> um and

180again that we would there would be no votes, no decisions made, we would work >> it mostly just be >> listening. Yeah, it's a workshop. >> Um >> but I don't think it should be I mean that's just a legal thing. It's not really build as a school committee meeting. It's just legally if we're all there participating it it needs to be posted. So, um the only other thing that I wanted to say um is that I have been trying to have conversations in the community and reflecting um particularly uh with people that have different ideas than I do. And one of the questions that um a couple of different people have asked me and it's I think it's a good question. is one that I've been reflecting on is as a school committee member

181when you're elected and you sit here, do you feel like you represent the students or do you feel like you represent the voters who elected you? And I really thought about it and I've been thinking about it a lot and I've been answering that question as you know in a kind of a nuanced way like you know I really feel like I represent the students and the students are part of the community and I wouldn't wouldn't want to represent the students out of context. I think the conversation we just had really represented that. But the reason I bring it up is because we all got this funny little MASC calendar in the mail, which is somewhat hilarious because it's a paper calendar. But in the back, it does have the MASC code of ethics, and

182I found that it was really helpful. So, I'm just going to share a little bit about it. I've read this before, but it was nice that they sent it out. Um but one of the things I thought that was helpful to answer that question like I said that I have been thinking about because I think it's a conversation in the community is that the code of ethics delineates three areas of responsibility for school for school committee members and those are community responsibility responsibility to the ad the school administration and responsibility to other committee members. But what was interesting under community which is first the listed first is responsibility to community is that the first item under responsibility community is that school committee members a school committee member in their relationship withship with their community should

183number one realize that their primary responsibility is to the children. >> So I just there's a lot more to this. It's a longer document, but I like I said, it's been something I thought about and to me that spoke to what I was trying to communicate that like it's within community and the primary responsibility is to children. >> So anyway, interesting document that you all got in the mail. >> I did receive that. >> I know, but I use this, so I actually recycled it. >> There are nice large spaces to write. I debated keeping it, but I don't use a paper calendar. >> No, no one does. >> My checks in it. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Order checks. >> Exactly. >> Anyway, that is um I think that was very funny. That is all

184I have. Um unless anyone has any questions for me. >> Um does anyone have any topics for future meetings? >> Nope. >> No. Just more budget. >> More budget all the time. >> Um, >> a motion. >> Yep. I move that we adjourn this meeting at 9:41 p.m. >> Second. >> All right. Uh, seconded by Jen Carr. All those in favor? And oh, sorry. I seconded by Kristen Nune. Excuse me. And all those in favor? Yes. And it is unanimous of the six members present. And we are ajourned.