001so all right we'll call this meeting order at 608. um all right so we are here to meet with Anthony um colonyo Lori Gallivan and Julie kookenberger tonight um we would be a lot everyone about 45 minutes tonight and how do we want to discuss how we're going to go about the questions there's a list of the questions from the original uh it was actually never oh from when Carrie asked the questions uh only if they are in minutes but I thought we were going to ask our questions that we didn't do but I think we sort of have wiggle room to do both um well with only especially with only five of us I mean if we each have two questions and there is a back and forth correct right yeah oh we each
002have two questions so I mean so I remember like one of the questions was about what is your experience with buying land so there was um something about what's the difference between being an interim and a full-time permanent superintendent um describe your management style yeah and uh was there something about a goal about um had you ever had to sorry assist the school committee and the superintendent search yep have you ever had and number one goal for coming it wasn't there a number one goal for being a superintendent or what number one yeah I think it was even like top I think it was a top three top three yeah yeah because I remember somebody answered uh Do no harm and the other person said keep the boat going to that one yep questions might
003be in the minutes because we for them yeah right I didn't it should be in the minutes but we don't have the minutes yet from her do we she'll have them right right so I think we have enough notes to to go um and then what order should we go my age okay I go first I don't know I might have you beat um we'll discuss that I mean so how about this I sort of I'll ask you know just for them to introduce themselves um and um maybe ask them maybe go through so I I've the three I wrote down would just be do you have any experience so how about describe your management style yeah then difference between an interim full-time and then that one about building so I can just throw that
004in there okay uh and then I can do um yeah and then we can go from there and then maybe we'll just go right down the table with uh twice yeah just like rotate to twice yeah okay on my second questions psychological man you should start off by just asking like what what is it about this particular position right yeah yeah I'm just curious yeah sure yeah right mine yeah so we're each asking two two questions is that the idea yeah I mean if you don't have a second question or a follow-up of any sort don't worry about it yeah I think huh all right we're ready I'm gonna do the pledge I did the Pledge today already did you do the pledge today already I did that's cool Doris Day Tim Conway I don't
005think it was for Doris Day and Tim Conway that the flag was at half Masters I don't know why foreign hi there how are you my mates [Music] how are you very good um thank you for coming today thanks for having me so my name is David Polito I'm the chair of the Hamilton Regional School District excuse me I'll just have everyone introduce them sure thanks as we go through so I just want to get started today you know a lot of 45 minutes so there will be some back and forth and you know just trying to get to know you sure a little bit better why don't you introduce yourself and um really explain why you you were interested in this position and while you applied to come and meet with us tonight sure
006my name is Anthony colomino I've been an educator now for 20 years I was a bit of a delayed vocation I was a newspaper reporter for becoming an educator taught fifth grade in Boston Cambridge and was a kindergarten through fifth grade principal as North as Gloucester and as South as Wellesley and so I enjoyed my time as teacher as leader for the past almost four years I've been Consulting um education Consulting leadership Consulting primarily through the lens of growth mindset the work of Dr Carol dweck her research and you know been able to travel to almost 30 States 400 000 miles worked with lots of schools and school districts you know sometimes I work with just one school sometimes I work with the entire Cincinnati public school principals all 57 of them providing professional development
007and Leadership coaching it's fascinating interesting work I get to learn a lot I get to see a lot of the country but also you know pulled back towards the idea of working in a place with people in the same place over and over again working towards a common goal I'm at my best as a consultant when I'm working with people when I'm not I'm at home I'm in front of my computer and that's not who I am so I'm really interested in the fact of coming to A A very good school district with the potential to lead and Lead it well and help it become an even better School District and that's really my drive my drive is to as a teacher as a leader to make a better tomorrow through educating children my goal
008my core of my core value my foundational core value has always been self-actualization helping children become whatever they want to become and so I'm driven by that I'm driven by the fact that it's in a desirable area place that I love uh I don't have to explain my accent here so uh you know I'm looking forward to hearing your questions and learning more about you as you learn more about me great um could you explain your management style say that again can you explain your management style um management leadership I would say when you're leading you're leading people so when you're leading people you have to get to know them learn them understand them I would say my style is to inspire to help people become what a whatever they become so what I've learned
009as a leader especially as a school leader and this would go for a superintendency as well is you're not going to have student understanding learning and growth without educator understanding learning and growth so you really have to drive your organization make it a learning organization and so one of the great things about the work I've been doing the last four years growth mindset is all about learning how do we learn what is the science the Neuroscience of learning what happens when we make mistakes what do we say what do we do how do we help each of us learn so we're not afraid because when we're afraid we don't innovate you know when we're afraid we might close our door we might not be open to what the district the whole district is doing so
010for me personally the only guarantee I ever made as a principal and I was a principal of four buildings was that I would get to know every child's name before Thanksgiving in most of my buildings were about 300 or 400. so and I always achieve that goal because when you know the students you can help the students same with my staff any building I start as a principal I gave excuse me a question here the summer before and then I made office hours and I met with every single one of my staff members so I got to learn them and to get to know them and ask them very important questions like what is something culturally that I have to pay attention to here what is something important that needs to be done if there
011are any changes what do you what do you think the change might benefit this school this District your class and you really start to form relationships that way so I'm always looking for how can I help you learn and when I'm leaving innovating thinking of ways to do it better explaining why we're doing it how is it going to happen explaining the vision why is this important the skills that will be involved the incentives what do we get out of this what do the students get out of what does the community get out of this the resources we'll use and the action plan that will that will tie it all together so it's a way of managing change it's a way of managing people and I would say as far as on both counts that
012I've been successful as a principal I think if you ask my staffs they would give you interesting answers around inspiration about their growth and about my support of them great um so you're a principle of four different buildings do you have any superintendent experience I do not have any superintendent experience I've worked with superintendents obviously um you know what do you feel the difference is between an interim and a full-time um superintendent I think there's different challenges to that and so you know when you think about a superintendent being the leader of the entire District you have to get people on board of what's happening in the district you have to learn from them what's happening in the district and you have to build some sort of consensus towards what are we going to do
013now or what are we going to continue that you've already started as an interim I think that's a little bit more challenging because people might be waiting do am I really going to be invested in this person will this person be here next year and I think as a leader that's a challenge as well because you have to show that even though it's an interim basis that you're you're here you're present you're full-time you are here every single day to help and support the learning in the school and school in the schools and the school district and the central office because you're leading all in all of those places so I think there is a bit more of a challenge there I view it as an opportunity this really is an opportunity for me else
014I wouldn't be here you know I'm in a place where I feel I've I've got to see a lot both in the schools I've LED and the places I've consulted and I can apply what I have learned in a way that would benefit this community these schools the staff and ultimately the students fantastic um in any of your experiences either as principal or as a consulted have you had any experience excuse me with uh building a new building or purchasing land I have not okay so at that point Gene okay hi how are you uh Gene Lee hi Gene um tell us a little bit more about your approach and philosophy towards developing a District budget so you know a lot of the budget is tied to salary right it depends on the districts I've
015been in it's been anywhere from 82 to 88 percent so you have a you know a smaller percentage of what are we going to do with money that we raise or how you know through taxes and through the community grants what have you what I have learned is you really have to pay attention to your values and use your budget to support those values so if we're if we're supporting you know 21st century skills if we're supporting technology whatever it might be within your budget we have to apply that in a meaningful way otherwise the values aren't as meaningful right so you look at your values what you value here as a community and it should be stated somewhere both outside and within the budget that this is why we're spending this money I mean
016obviously people's taxes are going to support the schools they need to know where their money is going and why so I believe communicating those values and communicating why we're using that money in that way it's not only important for the staff and the students and the families that send their children here but also the community at large that supports the school because not all families have kids going to school anymore so you really need to be build consensus around your whole community and especially if you're thinking about planning for school building you know if you if you have to pass another tax to support that if that has to happen it really has to be clearly communicated so when you speak to your values and that's what I've always done as a teacher and a
017leader everybody knows what your values are and then they can share in those values they can question you about those values and ask you how is that how is this budget matching our values and if we can't respond in a concrete and transparent way I think it's problematic so I'd be sure to communicate that and dig deeper into the values of the system and find out where we've been and where we need to go cancel follow-up now or join me go for it yeah no if you have something yeah sure so uh in your Consulting experience have you ever worked with a regional district that had more than one Community participating as members in that district and what was your experience in that I'm trying to think I'm trying to think um if I have
018done a regional school mostly come to mind not not Regional they tend to be I've gone from you know small rural to you know the Bronx which is the biggest one of the biggest if not the biggest public school system in the country nothing generally that I can call to mind if I think of it while I'm answering other questions I'll come back to it though is there something that you want to know about working that or is there another question behind that I'm wondering well let's go into my question actually yeah I'll let folks answer I ask the question all right thanks thanks you might uh so yeah so it's um you know because we're a regional we have two towns towns that we have to convince and they're not they have their own
019personalities and their own sort of value systems um and then their own sort of personalities so can you tell us how you have reached out to strengthen relationships and build trust for the schools with local stakeholders such as faculty families local Municipal officials including the school committee the business community and the taxpayers sure you know as a school leader is always important for me to share what was happening in school with my families all the time so that meant every school where I was a leader Weekly Newsletter here's what's happening here's what's happening in school um here's what we're doing here's something new here's something we like your participation with my staff I emailed my staff every single day every day same thing here's where I am I'm out of the office at these hours
020I always had open Office hours if they change for that day I'd let them know every Friday with my staff I'd send out a TGIF email something I noticed something we were doing something inspirational 500 to a thousand words I have staff that I led almost 15 years ago who will remark and say do you remember that TGIF you sent on this on what happened in school and some of the time now I have to think can you give me more information but people hold on to that because that's a connection that's a bill that's a building a relationship of why we're here together with community so in the Woburn schools Clapp elementary school as first principal we had um poverty rate about 50 percent and we had some struggling math students so I got
021together with the staff and said um you know these are kids that are at risk for failing the math MCAS in fourth and fifth grade third fourth and fifth grade let's think about what we can do differently how can we innovate what we can do differently Raytheon had just opened an office in Woburn so myself and some teachers got together and said let's create some Hands-On lessons we need some materials but we'd also like to bring in Engineers people who use math every day in their careers to tutor the students so I reached out to Raytheon and I said you're new to the community I'd like to invite you to the Clapp Elementary School show I want to show you our wonderful students the school our staff and this is what we like to do
022and so that started a relationship with Raytheon we started a math scholar program after school tutoring program they actually came and toured the school hierarchy of Raytheon that for that office I went to Raytheon helped recruit the engineers and I also gave them two days worth of tutor training we created the lessons and then we said P.S Raytheon we'd like to you to donate three thousand dollars so you can we can buy the materials and they said absolutely and we ran that program for two years in the first year our MCAS math scores went up 24 percent more kids proficient in moving on a warning so that was a connection with the community um you know with with school board members with Mayors I've always had I've always had good relationships um you know some
023things we've liked to have tried so you have to you have to get some input from the community you can't just go Full Speed Ahead all and I wouldn't say you can't go Full Speed Ahead most of the time you have to gauge what's happening you have to gauge the understanding you have to gauge do you think do you think this is a direction that we need to go in you know and those relationships don't always occur smoothly and I'll give you an example when I was in Waltham I just started and another principle was looking at Extended Learning time and she needed one other school and she asked around and nobody else volunteered I'm new sure why not I'll give it a try so we got into this planning and it's you know it
024was a two-year cycle at that point you planned for a year and then the second year while you're planning some more you take some votes of the staff and of the community I didn't understand that once you at that time I don't know if it's the same now once you got into that process if it if your school voted for it you had to open up open enrollment for your entire district and I didn't realize that and so the mayor was not too happy with that and so she asked me and the other principal to meet her at a Citywide PTO meeting and she killed these every month I believe at the time and the other principle happened to be sick so I kind of went by myself under the bright lights and took all
025some very difficult and challenging questions some that I did not have the answer for I was never offended by the questions even for people who were upset and I believe at that point the mayor was not very happy but I made sure I explained it in a way that I should have previously so I maintained the relationship because that's important to me because if we're going to get anything done Hamilton when I'm school I'm going to need the school board I'm going to need the community I'm going to need the business Community I'm going to need the families and the students and the staff you know for that reason if I were to be hired for this job I would do the same as I would do as a principal I'd have open Office hours
026I'd send out a survey to the staff and more so to the community at large to meet more people to get a sense of the region in the district the Nuance the challenges the opportunities so just following up on that a little bit um you know you mentioned Woburn and Waltham um experiences you had sort of reaching out with the community I'd say Hamilton one of them is probably a little bit more like Wellesley sure um in in can you sort of explain the differences that you saw between you know the Waltham in Woburn in Wellesley and sort of how you adopted there absolutely and so you know Wellesley quite frankly is a more affluent District certainly more affluent than mover and Waltham and Gloucester where I was a principal in other places the wonderful
027thing is kids are still kids and adults are still adults in all those places but in Wellesley you have very successful people some of them you know work as power Brokers in Washington high-powered attorneys doctors and they are driven and successful for a reason and they like to ask questions and maybe demand things of you or for from you and I never had any issue a challenge or problem with that because I should always be able to explain myself why we're doing it how we're doing it so I was never put off by that to be quite honest I felt wealthy quite interestingly I had the greatest parents support the quickest I felt they were just behind us behind me and what we were trying to do at the Fisk Elementary School again when you're
028tied to values so the fiscal was great Fair inclusive safe kind and encouraging we do that those values are present in everything we did curriculum instruction PTO meetings I mean I brought that out everywhere we were and we held ourselves to that as a staff and we held the community to that and the community held us to it as well so as long as you kind of know where we're coming from and why we're doing something and even if I disagree with you I can do so agree I can do but not be disagreeable you know what I mean I know exactly professional and I don't mind the questions I really don't as a principal and so at staff meetings I never minded challenging questions from my staff because I knew if one staff member
029asked me the question five or six or ten others have the same question so let's put it out for all to kind of hash through and understand and try to work on this and if I don't know the answer we'll figure out an answer together to kind of answer questions that definitely okay nice to see you again Michelle Horgan good to see you again as well an interim superintendent is here for one year but it is a very important year for us parents District stakeholders in the community could you share with us what your action plan would be for your first month and your first six months here in the district sure so as I said the first month is getting to know everyone to build relationships with everyone if you're going to do anything
030as a district on some level You're Building consensus what does it mean to be a member of the Hamilton one of them School District what does it mean to be a student what does it mean to be a staff member what does it mean to be a Community member what does it mean to be a school board member that's important work that's foundational work and through those conversations you you gather themes I always have done this so when I've done this as a principal four times people give you information and they're actually helping you build your plan because they're telling you what's important here why they're here they're telling you what they think needs to happen next so they're actually I've always felt my when I've done those interviews and how those certain how those
031surveys my staff has always helped me make because then I presented what they told me and so I would do the same here so I would have the formulation of my plan in the first month and I would have an Avenue to go for the next six months you know you just looking at at your you know your website and looking at your values and your planning it looks like the plan stopped in 2018 so you're up for a new plan what level of comfort or expectation do you have for the interim superintendent to do that certainly I can do that and craft it in a way that someone else can take over or maybe it'd be me carrying it Forward depending on how the year went so this certainly that Avenue to take in
032that first month and I would share that with the board how we're doing what I'm hearing maybe it'll match what you already know maybe it'll be something different the interesting thing is you don't know until you ask and so what what also happens is while I'm learning everybody else they're learning me right they're learning my methodology they're learning my drive my core values how they connect here and where we where I see the district going where we see the district going together because it can't just be my story it just can't be the community story you know the superintendent's hired for a reason it's our story how we're crafting that together and then sharing that out so you know I can't say what the nuts and bolts of that plan would be but I can
033tell you we would have one for sure and in terms of what do you think you would need from us as school committee members what I've learned over the years from not only my my own experience but other superintendents and other friends who are in leadership positions is the school board into a large degree the relationship the superintendent has with the school board can drive the district to have a functioning Professional School Board superintendent relationship is important to me so just be again a matter of building that relationship together and building a Direction together you know you're on this board for a reason you want to see the schools do well as a superintendent I would want the same thing so to craft that together would be important to me thank you you're welcome to
034me sure hi sir welcome nice to meet you yeah Peter you as well can you give examples of programs or educational policies to improve quality instruction that you have implemented in other school districts sure and again it's a matter of asking so in Waltham I asked through those surveys what's something we need to work on Steph said write his Workshop I said okay tell me more about that I said well during the opening school meeting last year we had about three slides on writer's workshop and then we're told we have to do this and we have no idea how to do this and we're afraid because we're being held to this accountability yet we don't know how to do it because we haven't been trained well so what I did at the time in Waltham
035was to pull in some work with my literacy coach pulling an expert Mary Ellen Jacoby she's noted for expertise on writer's workshop and she lives in the area we asked her if she would come I had to work with the central office to develop budgets around substitute teachers because I wanted to make sure that the professional development happened right in the school with our students you get more buy-in that way and you see an expert actually working with our students who come to school every day so I got some uh I had to build some relationships there because there was some you know some fear along the lines of what we're the experts what do you mean we'll come in and do this and I said well here's what my staff is telling me here's
036why I think this is valuable here's where I think we'll go if we're able to do this and you support it you can choose not to I understand they chose to support it we developed budgets around the professional development around the substitutes the coverage and we gave every teacher in my building full-time teacher nine hours of professional development with Mary Ellen Jacoby and we crafted this plan so they got to meet with her before a lesson they got to watch her teach a lesson and then they debrief with her afterwards that's three days of doing that with her the learning just just that process of watching participating debriefing I can tell you the learning was phenomenal teachers were so invested in doing it because again working with our students getting to actually talk and question
037an expert in the field and then getting the support from myself and the literacy coach in central office and then once it was done I said all right everybody this is what I understood we learned go through this list and see if I'm correct and we went through the list and there was most agreement most of most of them then I said what can I what can we hold ourselves accountable for because now I'm going to do learning walkthroughs on a daily daily weekly basis to gauge our level of understanding and follow through and then we shorten the list right because we want we can't be held accountable to everything and then as we were doing that the interesting thing that came up I saw a lot of action on what we had done I
038saw people conferring in a better way organizing mini lessons in a much more meaningful way connecting with their students and circling back and creating many lessons off of what the students were writing and telling them during their conferring sessions so it was working but then the interesting thing that happened while you're present in your building holding people accountable they're saying things to you like wait a second I don't understand this Anthony we have to get more development on this I'm not quite sure yet and sometimes those are questions I could answer to them I could send them to another teacher or I said we need to bring some someone else back or we need to do professional development so they they kept giving me more to my plan so I could further develop them and
039as you're doing that with curriculum whatever kind of adoption you're talking about or technology that you're integrating you have to do it similarly you really need people's investment in this why it's important and then when they question you you have to be ready for that because people should have questions it shouldn't be here take this and run with it and do great like my staff had three days one day 20 minutes three slides go ahead and do this that's not fair but we do that often in education too often I noticed as a leader at the building level at central office sometimes it seems it appeared to me that they were chasing the next new shiny object and had given up on something that the staff was invest invested in and then you know what
040staff does they make decisions based upon that well is this something that's going to stick is this really important and so as a leader of the district I would do the same thing and make sure I was in buildings following up holding ourselves accountable which means holding myself accountable and holding it accountable to the taxpayers who support the budget all that has meaning for me great thank you um I guess I'll go next you've sort of answered parts of of this um already so now I'm going to try and sort of have put together a question that makes sense so coming in as a as an interim um I believe everyone in central office I think except one has been hired by the administration that's leaving now the superintendent's leaving now um and obviously in
041a situation like this would be crucial for the interim superintendent to really have a plan to retain senior staff and not only during the year that they're there but also leave them in a happy place for whoever moves into the permanent role you know whether it be the interim moving up or someone else coming in um so you know what are your thoughts around that process or how you would sort of go about it I would do similar again so the central office has been included in that meet everyone yeah okay and then the idea is how can I help you grow in this year so when I go out to an audience sometimes I'm doing a keynote address and it's only an hour I say you know what we only have an hour together
042you and me I have to form a relationship with you somehow sometimes I'm speaking to audiences over a thousand people and I say I have to be able to share what I think is important connect to what you think is important and together hopefully give you an idea a methodology an approach that's different from what you're doing now or maybe it's a reaffirmation of what you're doing same thing with central office how can I help you grow in one year's time it actually might be more accelerated for them because I would hold my again hold myself accountable on them as well because I want to see them grow in that year's time whether it's preparing them for somebody else or as you said an interim if it would be me with me I will be
043invested in the job the moment I get it and that means helping people grow because as I said at the beginning you're not going to have student growth without educated growth so if my central office isn't growing there's a chance that my principles aren't growing and department heads aren't growing and my staff isn't growing and my support staff isn't growing I want everyone to be on a path of growth and so that's important to me it's why I've been passionate about this work for 20 years in different capacities you know to to quickly go back when I first started teaching in Boston I would say to the kids on the first day to school the first day of school I would say we might have the doctor that Qs cancer in this classroom today we
044might have that we might have the nurse that treats me the mechanic that fixes my car the pilot that flies my plane playing the chef that cooks my meal or whatever you want to be so when I did that in Boston that's 100 poverty that's second language Learners different Community from here but I went and I found half of my class online a couple years ago and one of my students is a med student at Ohio State College Ohio State I mean the Ohio state right he's a med student he might be that doctor so I'm serious about that so if I'm serious about that I'm going to help and support everyone who supports the learning Community right now to purchase some land that abuts a school that so that's one of the things that
045the interim superintendent would need to either actualize or move Beyond so can you talk to us about some experience you may have with renovating or planning for a building or you know how you would go about negotiating or how you would go about prioritizing sort of a long list of projects that we have sure because our resources are not infinite correct we do not have the six stones can't just shake something and money fall out of the tree um that goes back to the values again and prioritizing to your values um you know I've had experiences in renovating the school I was in in Wellesley that's the extent of my experience but I was working pretty closely with project management around um you know everything around access handicap access you know so Ada talking about
046maximizing space and taking call a piece of a hallway here a piece of room here to maximize that making the building safer you know the and the building I was in the office was through the hallway from the front door so moving that and then talking about where do we put the teacher's room and understanding my staff whereas maybe central office and the project managers didn't understand my staff and where they wanted to locate that teacher's room I mean so there's a lot that goes into that and certainly around purchasing land you have to have the objective of why we're doing that again that's going to be at a cost and so other things are going to go by the wayside or maybe you have to raise revenue to do that so again getting back
047to that why of it it's important obviously I would rely on some expertise of people in central office for the nuts and bolts of things that I don't know and I think every leader has to do that in fact I don't think that I know that and so if I'm helping people grow they're going to help us grow together and help me do my job and do our job together so in that when you're working through Renovations and I've worked through the idea of renovation versus knocking down and building new and those kind of ideas and what what the cost is um and again when you're working with project management they have to understand the needs of the school and they're looking at their budgets and how they maximize their profits which doesn't always connect
048to what the schools need so I was very forward in my discussions with them about what I thought we needed and why and they might have come back with a dollar sign or something like that to central office and then we had to have meetings and discussions around that but if you're not tied to some sense of value then it you can just get walked on on some level I want to and walk-on isn't the right word but if you're not prepared for those difficult discussions you know I always said if I became a superintendent which I might I would ask my principals if I was hiring them tell me how you feel about conflict how do you manage conflict because it shows up in your door at your door almost every single day Wherever
049You Are and so I've become really really good at managing conflict I've learned not to take things personally I've learned to listen through the emotion to what we're really driving at what can what your concern is if you're voicing a concern so in the planning stage of processing land and setting it up so it's successful I would do that and I would do it diligently so either to prepare for the next person taking over which means I'm preparing for the schools in the district that have entrusted me to do this job to the best of my ability and it could be for my benefit too if I continue on as a superintendent so I'd be driven to do it to do it well but that's the way I've always been driven so I got one
050yeah I have two but yeah so um so you've been a building leader mostly at elementary schools yep so tell us how you would scale some of the efforts that you've spoken about at the building level to now a district yeah five schools three Elementary one middle one high over a thousand staff people yep I don't know how many conceptual office I'm embarrassed to say but how do you you know how so tell us how you would scale that and also being a superintendent I mean you're farther removed from the classroom yep right you have other administrative challenges Beyond just uh instructional um so how do you so can you describe sort of your your thoughts about how you would deal with the depth of of issues that you have to deal with as well
051as the scale of it well again I think goes back to what Michelle was saying earlier prioritize so what's important what are we talking about here is it teaching and learning is it something ancillary it's important to again Narrows those down in discussions and meetings and whatever we're talking about to get to the source all right and and then talk about it in a way that either says this is important we're going to raise this to this or we're going to say this is not as important as these things that we have prioritized and this is how we'll get to it scalability is interesting you know whoever takes a superintendent role they're not gonna usually not gonna have elementary middle and high school experience for myself from where I sit in interviews I've had I
052I get the sense that well it might be harder to go from elementary up not everybody will believe that but I think some people do you know Elementary is where you create the culture where kids love learning and so you have to work through a lot of challenges and issues from from students who sometimes will not separate from a parent to walk into the school door which is a very challenging situation that I had to do almost every single year to some level which would always end with I'm going to call you in about a half an hour and I'm going to predict that your child is going to be adjusted and having a great time in school which always did happen but that sense of assurance from people and not to judge a person
053in that moment because they're already not feeling good about themselves and their child and that can happen quite easily so even in those situations it's a matter of working through the emotion to helping people be their best and you get lots of experience in elementary school doing that because kids are trying to figure it out as they enter into schools so there's almost not been an issue at elementary school that I haven't had and I say that with some sadness to a death of a student off campus um to challenges with staff to removing staff or not rehiring staff at the Middle High School level they face them maybe in different ways maybe in different ways the beauty of the job that I've had recently is I've got to do it at all levels with
054all kinds of leaders and all kinds of staffs and when you're talking about self-actualization you can talk about that in kindergarten 7th grade and 11th grade when you talk about growth mindset what does it mean to actually grow do we have the understanding that everyone can grow their intelligence their abilities and talents I was saying this and while I was waiting to come in nobody argues with that statement but how do we do it what do we say how do we plan how do we assess how do we grade how what feedback do we give that either inspires someone to learn or turns them off to it so as a leader you've got to make an impact in your presence that lasts in your absence as a principal I had to do that I knew
055I had to do that because my teachers taught on average research will tell you teachers teach 900 hours I was only with them maybe for two of those 900s so I have better have had some sort of inspiration some sort of impact on them that lasted in my absence and I can tell you it did because they told me so and that's not always easy to share because part of being a leader is being having a heavy dose of humility I would say to my staff all the time my power is in you you teach every day my job is to set the culture to make sure it happens so that's scalable [Music] inspiration is scalable if I don't know something I'll learn it to help and support no doubt no doubt you know uh
056when I have led and it's hard for me to explain but I'll try I do something to people and for them that makes them want to show up early and stay late that that they will not back at taking the most challenging students because they know I would support them so there's that level of inspiration when I do which I think is important for any leader if you don't have that foundational piece of relationships and inspiration you know I've had this discussion several times lately in the districts I've been in culture trumps everything it just does and so culture scalable may I ask one more question building off the growth mindset building up the growth mindset could you describe for us what the teaching and learning environment might look like in our district five or
057ten years from now interesting you ask because it's changing right you get the research is out there that says you know 20 years whatever percentage of jobs 50 to 60 of the jobs haven't even been invented yet right so the idea around teaching is here's what I see I see greater personalization with some role that technology plays with this and Technology by the way is a tool it does not replace the teacher so it's a matter of helping scale that with teachers and give them the professional development to use it to create a personalized lessons you know I saw I I just saw last week the way that a teacher personalized it by using his technology starting a high school math lesson without a lecture the individual lessons were on the computer but his culture
058is set up in the room where kids help each other and he helps the kids that need the most challenge or need the most support that's a different way of thinking about education especially at middle school and high school level maybe it's happening here already quite possibly could be but I see greater personalization with the use of Technology you know critical thinking is always going to be out there because we have to have kids apply their knowledge in some meaningful way especially if there is a position that does not exist like social media manager 1986 when I graduated high school right but even like 2006 there wasn't social media media so this idea of building Knowledge and Skills that are applicable across the curriculum so growth mindset is really looking at I believe you can
059learn and if you're not learning as the teacher I have to adjust how I'm teaching to you I have to give you the skills and strategies that help you succeed which means there's more than one way to teach especially at all levels because the second kids feel like they've been given up on then they act in turn they might be disruptive in the class they might skip the class they might might say they have a stomach ache in elementary school so they don't have to go we call them frequent flyers they were in the nurse a lot right so that happens but if I believe you can grow I will never give up on you so at the Fisk Elementary School when kids said to a teacher I'm not a good writer teacher would say
060not yet because yet conveys hope yet means I am not done and by the way as a principal I learned to say that with my staff I'm not good with the English language Learners teaching them how to read not yet but I can help you what do you think you need I'll come and observe and tell you what I think but what do you think let's create a plan together so it's that idea of yet it's the idea of growth means different growth is just not getting an aim in the grade right because I got A's in classes where I did not grow so at the fiscal Elementary School growth mindset this is what we did Peter we changed what we said we changed our feedback which all of a sudden changed the instruction and
061work we gave to the students because I I can't give growth minded feedback I can't say you're applying a good effort if you're not challenged so that means I need to make the work more challenging so we started with our words and it really is true you change your words you change your mind and the kids picked up on it and they tried really really hard because they knew we were trying really hard to give them the right work and just as a quick example every reading and math lesson at Fisk Elementary mini lesson was teacher do a mini lesson then the kids could go to reteaching with the teacher typical work that they could do on their own and challenge work that they could do on their own or with the teacher depending on
062the time and we let the kids self-sort and you could end up on reteaching on Tuesday and Challenge on Thursday or vice versa so because we would change their words all of a sudden we would differentiating the work that took us months by the way we didn't do that in days and I let them work on that for months thank you you're welcome so I just want to be wrapping up yeah so I have one more I want to do so um you have not been a superintendent before and so there's going to be um a learning curve involved in that and I would be interested in knowing how you feel you would approach that and also how you would advise the school committee on matters of law particularly when we're putting together policies or
063making decisions around that and how you would go about you know not having had experience with those things necessarily how you would go about advising us and you know building your own skills so the the my first day of principal I went from teacher to principal I was hired in the middle of the summer in July I think or August and school started in September and that was a different experience getting you know making sure the supplies got where they need to make sure the class lists were all done and new kids coming in putting them on the list and so I remember quite clearly there was no assistance no school psychologist full-time so it's me the secretary of the nurse that was the office and all the kids got into class on the first
064day and I looked at the secretary and the nurse and I said now what but you learned now what right my first now I was Patrick Patrick was sent to my office my first student in kindergarten and we had this long bench that the principal for me had left it was like an eight-foot bench and Patrick was sitting on one end so I thought maybe I should sit on the other end not get too close he looked like he was upset and I looked down at him I said Patrick I already learned his name Patrick what's up what's going on and he looked at me earnestly and said Mr colonino rules rules rules no one taught me how to deal with Patrick I never learned that in a chorus but I learned to work with
065Patrick and get him to feel safe and secure at school and Patrick acted out a lot and I was with Patrick a lot and he was in kindergarten but I never disrespected Patrick I never hurt Patrick I never raised my voice to Patrick because if I was willing to help him grow and put the time in then I had to be respectful and figure it out with this teacher with his family to do it the best of my ability I can tell you I saw Patrick now Patrick is 19. graduated tech school and he works HVAC and he told me all about that because I met him recently I said you remember our time together and he smiled and he said yes all this is learning some of the you know on the job I've
066learned a lot as a leader in a school that's applicable to a District No Doubt there are things I will have to learn that I have not learned everyone who takes this job has to learn something at some point my advising to you and working with you I'm going to work closely with you because I'm going to need you in your support and things I don't know I'm going to tap the expertise of the people here and if they don't know it we're going to figure it out and find out together that's what I do so I need to find when I needed to find a expert in writer's Workshop I research experts in Writers Workshop and went through several before I landed on one that I would use similar it's applying those skills and
067strategies just like I said for students it's the same for adults it can be more challenging for adults because adults don't like to admit when they don't know something one of the things I learned as a leader which I don't think many people talk about is you have to expose your vulnerabilities this is what I'm not good at this is what I'm struggling at so when I said that to my staffs they understood that and they helped me and supported me because I helped and supported them it was cyclical the relationship symbiotic we're here to help each other so be the same here my advising of you I'll be openly communicating to you often whatever schedule we set whatever you've been used to maybe we use that maybe we set up a new schedule but
068I certainly want to communicate things of importance to you and just everyday things that you need to hear and see about because we forget why we're here sometimes that's why she had emails every day at my staff that's why I wrote inspirational ones on Friday because sometimes the struggles and the challenges are real and we forget why we're here so when we communicate often and the lines are open we'll communicate the important and challenging things I wouldn't say more easily easily but more comfortably and that's that's a big part of the job thank you um yeah I definitely want to thank you for coming in um I'm sorry yeah so do you have any um so any questions questions for us so we sort of changed the format of how we're yeah it's okay I'll
069give you a couple quick ones all right timeline so maybe tonight yeah it's already been shaken up okay so um after we meet with the candidates tonight we're sort of going to discuss on whether or not we might be selecting someone tonight whether we want to go for a second round of interviews or um introduce new candidates that have expressed interest so um that's sort of up in the air we do have a July 1 start date that we're really trying to um to meet so it will be very rapid one way or the other okay um an overlap would be great with the current superintendent if yeah if that's possible but we are very running out of time with that very quickly sure um just a second question is anything answers to my questions
070that left you with questions that are unanswered that you like to ask me before I go found them very thorough yeah no I think we um had a pretty decent follow-up okay you explain things very well thank you okay I try you know you you would hope as a newspaper reporter you'd carry that over that skill so um I appreciate your time thank you thank you thanks for having me again it was really nice meeting you all right nice to meet you as well and I look forward to hearing as well thank you yeah of course me too I'm still alive thank you well hi um welcome to Hamilton my name is David Polito I'm the chair of the Hamilton Regional school committee um I just want to thank you for taking some time out
071to meet with us tonight excuse me um we're just sort of going to go a little round robin around the table and ask questions be about 45 minutes or so uh worth of questions at the end um if you have any questions for us feel free to ask great or if you need any sort of clarifying do you know feel free we want to make this an open open dialogue back and forth um so uh just to begin you know just uh why don't you explain a little about who you are and why you were interested in applying for this position as a term superintendent consider myself an educator first always excuse me um and about 12 years ago I was working in the city of Lynn and you know it's very different than the
072smaller suburban and Rural communities and I started to see how everything was changing and I started to see that I didn't have the opportunity to affect as many lives as I thought I was going to as a teacher in the classroom and I felt that I would have a better opportunity if I were to get into Administration to be able to reach more students and you know I really believe that I have a clear vision and that with the right team that would be able to move a district like Hamilton who's already so successful to The Next Step the next level um one of the reasons that I I think that my my experience in the districts that I've worked in between Newburyport Saugus and Winthrop are a good fit is really size wise enrollment
073number wise amount of teachers overall staff and administrators and buildings are very comparable in all three districts I mean the the level of um success that Hamilton one of them has been seeing is is you know been truly great and I know I've known Dr Harvey for the last five years I've been a member of mas and um you know they his team has done some really great work and they should be very proud of all of you should be but I feel like the work that I've done in regard to budgets in regard to finance I've you know oversee all grants with the exception of idea and the 240 under special education in all just in all districts not in Newburyport in Saugus and in Winthrop in the role that I have now uh
074I you know I've been the lead in professional development and the biggest piece with that is really getting to know what it is that the teachers need you know talking to the administrator is talking to the teachers and finding out what they need to take it to the next level I know especially in a district like this that's been so successful and I myself um I'm a I've relocated to North Shore but you know I've really fallen in love with the North Shore I've been here now for almost 25 years I moved in mid 90s and settled in Saugus in 2000. and like I said I've been a member of mas for the last five years and I've worked with the team of Administrators in the North Shore superintendent's Roundtable and the dedication and the
075amount of work and what they can get done as a group collectively for the good of all it's just really it's outstanding to me it's very impressive um I don't know you know what Dr Harvey has shared but the Mas really would love to emulate what North Shore superintendent Roundtable does with our legislative connections and breakfasts and luncheons and really digging into the work that needs to be done for all schools and um so you know I I I want my next position to be in that Community I want to be able to rely on and use that same group of cadres that I can go to now to ask any question and know that um I they understand me they know where I'm coming from they we support the same belief systems and I
076grew up in western Mass in a town very similar to animals in one of them a lot of similarities it's you know grown and changed over the years but I graduated in a class of 120 students and I I knew I had two superintendents my entire life I knew both of them they knew both of me um both of me there's only one of me but the little you and yeah the little me right so but I I know that difference you know I still I'm still connected with some of my teachers on social media they've most they've since retired but you know they stay connected with a lot of us but there's a different sense of community when you have a class that size and you know you get to know not just the
077students in your class but their parents and sometimes their grandparents who run the corner store or the gas station down the street or you know uh it's diff it's different and you can educate kids in a different manner if you're willing to be Innovative in these type of environments and I was really drawn to it and and I knew it was a tough call in the beginning of the first posting with the interim position and I'm sorry it's been so difficult on all of you but I'm really glad that I've been able to come in and talk with you so thank you for that invitation okay uh thank you can you explain um sort of talk about your management style so um for me it's all about relationships you know um I am totally collaborative
078I know I don't have all the answers I don't pretend to have all the answers I've learned to be a much better listener in the last few years I always thought I was a good listener and I figured out after the first year in the executive director position that I sat there and listened but I kind of already had my mind made up and I learned that that's not good listening you know and so you know I'm very I I need that collaborative nature I need those conversations I need those naysayers to tell me why it's not a good idea because sometimes in the excitement and the passion for something or oh my God I just saw this look so fabulous it you need to take that step back and say and listen to the
079other side that says that's not such a good idea because or we've tried that here and this is why it wasn't successful but we agree with you but maybe we need to take a different route in approaching it this time you know so I surround myself with people who want to have that dialogue you know want to have that back and forth and want to be a part of something bigger and are willing to you know dial back a little bit put it out there reach out for more you know I I'd like to say to build consensus you know that's generally the goal in any building or um any environment you can't always get there but I I've always I have always been a believer that individuals follow leaders not for the decisions they
080make but for the wise behind those decisions so if the root analysis is always that the decision is what's best for our students or it's what's best for our community they don't necessarily always agree with you but they know you're Fair they know why you're supporting something and they can usually get on board and hopefully be a part of it rather than you know just come along for the ride kind of thing and that's kind of what I learned too that if I ask enough of the questions of why sometimes I can help build that consensus because people start to realize that okay maybe I'm not looking at it from the right lens you know or maybe I can redirect Lori to look at it from a different lens kind of thing and I you
081know always encourage my administrators to use that same tool when they're talking with teachers because you know we get out of the classroom we've been out of the classroom for a while and every year something changes in education whether it's a you know it's something in regard to the students something in regard to assessment something regard to accountability but for teachers it's a different world it's a different world from when I was in the classroom I know that you know and I feel like we have to continue to be that cheerleader and bring the teachers back to that point of why you're here how can I help you I know it's not easy I know the hurdles you have to jump through can be very difficult but we're here to support you because we know
082you're here for the kids and it's just bringing everyone kind of back to that center point so I like to surround myself with people who want to have the dialogue and you know and if they don't I work really hard to get them to that point you know get them to see why it can be so advantageous for all of us so that's pretty much what my leadership style is great um can you explain your thoughts on the difference between an interim superintendent and a full-time superintendent yeah I I don't know that there's actually a difference per se but I know the reasons why you might look for an interim versus a full-time I can't say that I wouldn't if it was me that was moved forward then I would you know be in it
083for the long haul and hoping for that audition and be applying because as I said I was really drawn to the community I think part of the difference is working with you as a school committee and to know what your goals are for the year and then to weave my goals in making sure that though yours are accomplished and that at the same time I'd be setting a stage for the possibility of the future and not feeling like it's been a year that you know in a holding pattern we want to we want to allow people to continue to grow and allow people to push those envelopes so my strategy would be the same either way but I would need to know what your real goals are as a school committee in order to weave
084them together makes sense [Music] um last question from me before we move on um so you came from Saugus and I know they're building a new building there so can you describe your experience in that new building process and do you have any experience with purchasing land so um I was there I should set the stage for my time in Saugus it might help so I was in Saugus for seven years three years as a building principal in four years as an executive director in that time in Saugus I had five different superintendents six if you count the fact that our Executive Director of Finance was also put in charge for three week interim in between so the SOI was developed and written under one superintendent the education plan and the outly that the layout
085with the architects of the building was done under another superintendent then when the last superintendent came in so I had to work very hard to help kind of align all of the pieces you know the superintendent was always the one to attend the msba meetings and be a part of the actual Town building committee but I in Saugus was in charge of all of the elementary education plan as well as taking the middle school high school and special education pieces and melding it into one and producing the final education plan for the district so I I was the one that put that together and and with the help of obviously those other counterparts the Middle School principal the high school principal and the sped chill education director did their parts we sat together we worked
086together at where and how they fit and then I took the documenting created one for the process in Saugus there were a few different Parcels of land that were looked at but all were owned by the town one had a little sticky situation because it was part of um reservation so there were some questions but everything was owned by town so there wasn't really ever any procurement issues with it it was just about doing the land surveys what was going to work the best and they ended up using the fields at the actual high school and right now it's getting there you've driven by but um yeah and then eventually the the school itself will become the fields so um but you know as far as land purchases no other than homes I've owned and
087you know but uh but that does that be can I ask a question here oh yeah does that become an issue for you in a regional as far as a land well it's a very unique process obviously and um I actually think you did a fantastic job answering because it almost fits perfectly with our situation it sits where we're at yeah and I think also if I can just jump in and ask what's your experience with a capital Improvement plan so so I guess is the capital Improvement plan so I guess has always been done on the town side the school committee has worked with the administration to say these are the things we want to take and add to the capital Improvement plan but it doesn't today a separate entity within the schools so
088in Saugus there's a um schedule 19. agreement at the end which is a chargeback agreement from the town so for example plowing all those kinds of things are done by the town then it's charged back to the schools at the end however for some reason through six superintendents they've never been able to actually get an agreement on paper ahead of time so years ago I remember we were being charged five hundred thousand dollars a year in a chargeback for MBTA busing none of our students ride the MBT MBTA buses we had our own buzzing um so that was when the conversations first started about we really need to have an agreement in place now you know and it happened with the next superintendent the next and unfortunately due to that constant turnover it always got
089pushed aside but so the capital Improvement was kind of the same thing each time there was something that was too big of a ticket they also the same issue I'm not sure here but the town owns all of the school buildings do your Town's own the buildings beyond the land I believe we own the building we own the building for the middle of high school too don't we yeah we own our middle school high school the regional district owns that the elementary schools are owned by the towns and we lease them for like a dollar a year right and those leases were renewed recently but um in Hamilton at least I know they were only for 10 years which is interesting because we owe money on them to them with the msba for beyond the
090length of our lease yeah right right but yeah so that was you know that's always been something going on in Saugus as well the town owns the actual building so for example the Kelly school which is I don't have anybody's familiar so I guess it's right and kind of in the center of Saugus that was closed gosh it's probably been huh it's probably been 15 years now or something around there and it's been leased to a days daycare Early Childhood Program and so it's never had to be brought up to code because it's always been a school and at the same time there are all kinds of things that need to be done there but it falls under Capital Improvements because the town owns it but we have to list it because it's still listed
091with the schools because we don't want to where are the ones actually leasing it to yeah the daycare so that in case we ever need to take it back we could without having to meet the requirement which would be totally unfair at this point but you know that's the ways around things kind of thing but um but yeah that's that's more the point for the capital Improvement pieces we add to the towns and then it becomes more of a town meeting and income discussions with the town manager and you you know you have a town manager and a Town Administrator correct well an internship Town Administrator right now but yeah well a lot of turtles are happening right now which is interesting because right when Dr Harvey came we also had a new Town Administrator
092right right it's like can you talk about um how you would reach out to strengthen your relationships and Trust um for the schools with our local stakeholders whether it's faculty family Municipal officers us business community and the taxpayers yeah um I mean that would be part of my goals and coming in would be to establish those meetings and those relationships I would have a set series of questions that to ask each of these different groups you know I'd invite people into you know if it's a coffee for the community if it's going to uh I'm not sure which organizations but a rotary or an elsewhere Chamber of Commerce or something to uh to have those conversations because you know there can be 10 people if I were to come in to tell me oh this
093is an issue here this is an issue here but unless you really do that you know that strategic planning model of a theory in action and ask these questions get all those results break it down and say work with the administrative team to say okay so what really are the big issues that the community sees what are the issues that the teachers are saying what are the issues that the students are saying um and the parents are saying and then come back and say okay these are our clear issues as defined by the community as a whole and then you build your strategic plan around now what's our vision to fix these things you know and then from then on everything you do moving forward now has to have a has to have a piece
094of that plan so you know it has to start from that vision and that mission that starts with the core values that you decide on where you're going to go how you're going to get there what it's going to look like in each building so that the superintendent's goals are tied to it essential office is tied to do with the administrators so that everybody is working towards that same goal but everybody has to have a piece in the development or there's there's no full buy-in to where you're going you know teachers need to know I was a part of that plan I'm the one who said that these are really issues you know or this group of them said this is really an issue for us so there has to be that investment from everybody
095and and that's when you start to see that movement and then it all ties to the budget so everything that you're doing you need to be able to speak to as to okay you want that in your budget why where does it fit in your you know in this Vision that we created where does it fit and what's best for students or where does it fit and how we take the success you're having right now to that next level and you know I want teachers not I want administrators too but I want teachers to come to me and say what if you know like what if we taught this class this way what if we tried this you know we're we're at a point now where we have students in kindergarten this year that we
096have no idea what kind of world they're gonna be coming out into so we know what we want for our high school graduates we know we want them to be collaborative independent thinkers we want them to be able to make mistakes and be resilient and come back and you know not give up but we just don't have any idea what five-year-olds are going to be facing because the world is changing so rapidly you know when I was in high school like I said there was such a different connection but I know I got my first cell phone I think I was Junior in college and it was a bag phone in my car you know so it was like it was a different it was a different world and it's a different world for educators
097and I think that that's the biggest piece is continuing to tie it all together and help remind Educators how we can work together to get things accomplished and not you know it's easy to wear Against the Machine you know the change is constant kind of bad I was just at another accountability update meeting last week you know and these are the things that eat away at these T are you know are really great teachers who get so frustrated with that one more thing you know have you presented a budget to a town meeting or have you attended a town meeting or have you spoke on behalf of the schools at a town meeting I did with two superintendents I spoke at the fincom meeting just briefly in regard to curriculum instruction evaluation because at the
098time it was the new evaluation tool was being implemented and the teacher rubrics and it was driving a lot of our costs for professional development and then around MCAS time and the need for influx of Chromebooks and technology and same thing so I would speak to them about the cost driving our superintendents have always done or led the conversations and then I've had other superintendents that would prefer that we just prepare the information for them and they would do the presentation so it's always been up to them so can you tell us about your like approach and philosophy around building a budget at a district level so we we're doing something very new this year in Winthrop which is I believe is the way I would do it going forward I know everybody hates this
099world word but it's really more of a zero-based budgeting zero-based budget but it's based on the vision it's based on what I just said it's it's going out to the administrators who then go to their teachers and say because we have our strategic plan in place with all of our steps school and how they're going to attack the different pieces of it so every teacher had to say forget about you know what was in your line last year what do you need to meet these goals to run your class and meet these goals and it was the first time they were really involved at the teacher level you know and yes there's some pie in the sky you know really want this it would be fabulous if I had three more you know 3D printers
100and a laptop dedicated to each one and those kind of things but um but the reality is when they they were very practical for most most the most part being able to show and tie it to that document and why it was important to move us forward um and it allowed myself and the superintendent because this is her second year as superintendent and my first year and went through it allowed both of us to really see the budget to know where everything is versus carrying it forward you know and why does the high school have you know sixty five thousand dollars in socialized textbooks when they were purchased two years ago those kind of things those should those errors shouldn't exist if you want to have real transparency as soon as somebody sees that there's
101a line that was just carried from last year it can become a sticking point depending on their you know their lens so it was very telling and for her as a new superintendent in her second year she really Eyes Wide Open kind of thing like really now she knows exactly where everything is how to hand him literally putting it in there with the finance person we don't have a school business manager we have a school off business office manager the town used to take care of the school's finances and that became a bit of an issue last year because you need somebody in the schools watching out for the schools and you need somebody Town watching out for the town they're too the jobs are too big for one person to do and it's very
102difficult when those lines start to blur and there's some strange laws that are very strict and in in town accountants don't necessarily understand you know the department of education's laws around school Finance so this we got kind of a program and a formula from a superintendent have been doing it for a long time and started doing it with our administrators and teachers all year long so it was a very it was really amazing to watch the culmination of it because like it was hard to kind of get to where what it was going to look like at the end or how realistic it was going to be but it surprisingly was yeah well I mean I was about to ask you why what what led the the Winthrop superintendent to go to zero-based budgeting because
103it's a long process it's very unusual to be done uh you know so there's a lot of there's a lot of reasons why a lot of organizations don't do zeros so Winthrop is you know it's a great town everybody works together very very fire there's a new town manager the police jeep was the interim Town manager when she took office two years ago so they had a really you know great working relationship she was born and raised in the town so she is very familiar with the goings-on but looking at the budget she was struggling and like I said the town had been taking care of it so there was a lot of unknowns and there was a budget shortfall and we figured if there's that much of a budget shortfall it's much bigger than
104we think it is so um you know we really started kind of digging to what's the best way to handle this and you know people some superintendents cringe when we mentioned it at meetings at all but but it it's proved to be so effective and we still don't know yet you know I'm in our town our school committee has voted the budget however we have not we don't know yet what's going to happen as far as the town in fincom yet you know gone before if income but we don't know the outcome yet which is difficult you know at this time but we do know exactly where all the money is so if there are things that need to be adjusted and decisions hard decisions that need to be made it's not it's not going
105to be going to a principle and saying cut 10 percent you know it's going to be very explicitly we know this is here we know you know we'd love it but we can make the adjustments because we know it and we don't have to kind of dig around and you know and you don't want to put a printable in a position either that it makes it very difficult for them with their staff you know because then they have to go back and who you're going to tell that you're not getting the supplies you need you know so it it's it's been telling and it's been a lot of work and and more so for her in the business office manager but um but for everyone involved I think it's it's been a great process because
106I think the administrators truly have and I they know where their money is in their buildings now you know they most of them just inherited it from a former administrator one of the challenges we've had recently is um increase in our out of District placement costs I saw that through numbers and also yeah I saw you guys are the last 12 years you're up like 155 percent and you transportation is another 55 is so hmm um so what types of creative ideas might you suggest that would allow us to still meet the educational needs of students um but kind of keep within our regular budget or help us to contain some costs well I know special education is the trickiest piece of any budget and it's also the largest piece of most all budgets um
107I mean I I think the biggest piece would be sitting with the special education director understanding where the grant funding where idea and 240 is being used how much of 240 is being saved for upcoming issues what's going on with circuit breaker you know I mean the rule of thumb should be that whatever's coming in this summer is used for next school year and not to prepay tuitions I mean we everybody does it from time to time with that we do not do that right yeah right so glad to hear that so um yeah so I mean that's one of the biggest challenges is you know using those funds the right way making sure that you can um prepare and leave room because you just don't know who's moving in you know um and unfortunately
108because of no change in the Chapter 70 funding that doesn't look like there's going to be any help in the transportation costs that we're pushing for in regard to Regional Schools but I think you know looking for efficiencies is is always the job of the administrative Central team you know so it's it's got to be the special education director and the curriculum coordinator and the finance assistant superintendent of finance and superintendent to say how can we combine some of these things how can we deliver special education professional development with our regular education you know and free up some funding here to make sure that there's coverage you know are we paying close attention to how IEPs are written you know what kind of services you know what kind of services are being proposed and do
109they truly fit the buildings or do they truly fit the model that we're using and is it the same everywhere in the district you know if if IEPs are being written differently at one elementary school then another Elementary School and the transition piece isn't done correctly before the student goes to the middle school they can end up in sixth grade with Service delivery grids that don't match the scheduling time periods or or should have been updated and haven't been and you know that's all speculative I don't I have not spoken with your special education director or know any of that so but looking at those things is I think one of the most important things first and foremost is to make sure that you know any funding source that you have is has got some
110built-ins for just in case Okay jump in go ahead um interim one year as I said before it is an important year for everybody um can you give us an idea as to what you would do the first month for six months and then leading up to your transition so again I mean it would really depend on what your goals are for the year so if you have particular ones I mean I I was going to ask this after but maybe it fits here so I mean I saw that since 1516 you have a new school Improvement plan this year that was supposed to identify the steps towards building the Strategic plan but I also knew that was presented to you in January and Dr Harvey's process started soon after so I wasn't sure if
111some of that work had been done or started started but then they all went to change School sort of conference and did some work around that so they kind of were thinking of going in a different direction but they're presenting they are going to present in June the first week in June they are going to present a new strategic blueprint so I mean I think getting to understand what if this work has been done by the full staff and the teachers then it's important to move forward with it so it would be you know finding out where they are trying to you know understand where I fit in and can help the process and at the same time doing what I spoke of earlier and getting out the community and still doing this you know
112this theory of action kind of approach to you know okay this is what you feel is going on this is what some of the community feels is going on or this is what parents are saying so where are we finding the similarities where might there be differences and see how we can meld that into this process you know and so that would be throughout those first probably it would probably take at least four or five months to get in front of everyone to ask those same series of questions and get up to speed on what the plan is that they want to present to move forward with uh and at the same time it would be getting to understand more about the financials so you know I I've done some research on it I've seen
113the struggles um with the on a district tuition and the cost of how to District transportation and the fact that enrollment down 17 and so you know unfortunately at a time when healthcare costs are on the rise and you know um the cost of living adjustments and and I know what didn't make it it was the OPB monies didn't make it into your budget this year that's dangerous it's hard you know because you can't only do what you can do but it's about you know getting a really strong understanding of that and I'm sure you guys must have been like petrified when you went to this step and nobody has Regional experience and what does that mean so I mean I know there are you know differences in the financial aspect from the superintendent perspective
114though you know that that person really should continue to be the educational leader and driving that Focus forward and working with our team and using their strengths to ascertain everything that's behind the scenes and get caught up you know I don't feel that I'll have any problem in doing that at all you know I think I've had enough exposure and enough experience in all these different areas of budget and budget you know development that it'll just be about changing my context you know a little bit um but I do think that you know another big piece of that kind of transition piece will be in where we are and where you see the goals that you have so if the decision is made to move forward with the plan that's in place to lay out
115you know the goals in the benchmarks when do you want to see certain things done what kind of steps do you want to see in the process so it would kind of help us guide us through the year and then I would hope to be sitting in front of you again for another interview thank you so can I ask to you a question that you tweeted out um earlier this year how do you help others move towards your Innovations so that's part of that what if you know it we every year I participate in the women's leadership conference that Mas supports and there was just a so much energy around being Innovative leaders and what does that mean what does it look like and a lot of times you say Innovation and everybody thinks technology
116you know and and yes that has a lot to do with it nowadays but it's about just you know saying just because we've always done it this way why do we have to do it that way you know let's be creative you know and I think that a lot of that needs to come from the students you know I know I said I think my personal belief statement is I want to know why they want to come to school I want to know why they don't want to come to school and I want to be able to have those honest conversations with administrators so that they can have them with teachers to say how do we make this happen you know um and and I know that's not an issue getting kids to school here
117in Hamilton Wenham but sometimes it is yeah but but it's the why you know it's that why it's back to that why it's the same thing so uh you know I'm the high school principal and I in Winthrop talked about starting next year with a different program with our ninth graders and using Naviance more during advisory to do the surveys than it does for kids around career interests and all because you know we pay for Naviance and everybody uses it for their college work but we don't use it for that aspect you know and really let it help kids drive what it is they they find that they're good at and they really enjoy and hopefully it can help us to design Better Learning paths through High School for students with different interest levels but
118you know I said to mount to the high school principle you know I want I want to be there like I want to meet with the kids like I said my superintendents knew my name and and they knew who I was and they knew my family and and that's the part of Hamilton that really you know drew me in that having that small environment where you can know all your kids you know obviously you might stumble on names once in a while but you can you know you get a sense of what's important and I think that that's really it's a leading it's a I guess it's a leading process for me is to get back to the kids because I think that our middle or High School especially students can give us a lot
119more discussion on what we're doing right and what we're not my turn two two questions can you give examples of programs or educational policies to improve quality of instruction that you have implemented in other school in another school district so uh I've introduced a lot of new things in the two different districts over the last five years but um I think and you're talking about are you talking about a program that was struggling and we found a need for an additional or just introduction of something new uh either okay so um so for example for a program we already had in place for example we in Saugus we use the Reading Street curriculum for the K-5 elementaries and um it's a very cumbersome curriculum but it's it's strong it's a Pearson product it's one of
120the most popular in the nation uh but it was probably shouldn't say this on the microphone but it was weak in phonics so partnered with the hill project for literacy who does a lot of work with Dibbles out of Oregon University of Oregon and they created a program called Equity core reading instruction and they did weekly units that went with Reading Street and also with wonders which is they're the two biggest National programs and then we introduced this and trained all of our teachers in this program to go right along with with the program and we saw you know huge jumps in in the phonics and that was something I had to go searching for you know like okay we've already got something we've made a huge investment in it how do we fill this
121Gap that we we see we're creating you know because we it's missing can I ask a question how did you identify that the need the Gap was it a student assessment was it teacher it was mostly looking at I would say primarily looking at our own data assessments our own Dibble assessments and once they got a little bit older and got into you know the third grade MCAS one of the big things that you know we talk about on the North Shore as superintendents and assistant superintendent says we're leading the nation but only 52 percent of our students in third grade were proficient in English so what does that say so Manchester Essex is hosting this summer uh two-part Series where we're really working with the educational leaders to focus on the science behind teaching
122reading and the fear that some of these programs that we're all becoming so invested in are taking it away taking us away from that because of the differentiation which we still need and because of the leveled readers and the ell components and all that maybe we're losing a little bit of the science because I mean what does it say Massachusetts leading the nation and only 52 percent are testing proficient in third grade we should be digging a little bit deeper you know um so it was mostly data assessment and we had built in in Saugus and RTI block every day in the elementary schools so every six weeks we had saying we used the hill once we introduced equity and we use the hill we had Consultants that came in every six weeks and they
123met with the teachers grade level teams and they reassessed and progress monitor the students and then regroup the students so every six weeks you either you know stayed within the same group you might have moved up to an enrichment group you might have you know gone a little bit had a little bit of a slide and needed a little more intense tier two support so um it was really looking at the data that we had and and saying okay why are we seeing these issues you know everything else seems to be making progress we seem to be growing at the rates we'd expect except around phonemic awareness and um and you know you just have to be able to find the the strong partners that are willing to work with you and and you know
124support the teachers through the process so it wasn't just give them the equity program it was bring people in let them take you through the data what is it showing so they trained our reading specialists in the district to be able to read these dates to read to be able to lead the data groups and then they were able to step back don't know if they're still working the district at all but um but I definitely saw the the strength that it brought to that program as far as a new program we were able to secure some funds from one of our state legislators to something that was written into a Bill and it was sixty thousand dollars for robotics enrichment for the students so uh I met the gentleman who runs first robotics and
125I ended up going out to his house for the kickoff party for one other oh my God the place believable and we ended up partnering with first and they became our Fiscal Agent so we were able to transfer those funds to them so that we could use them repeatedly year after year and we started participating in the first robotics program in grades five six and seven then we expanded it and went four five six seven and eight and I'm fairly positive they're still doing it now but we never had to charge a student it was anybody who was interested you know you there was discussion in the beginning well shouldn't we be charging activities fun and I was saying well we have the money you can't charge a student to fund for something somebody else
126is going to pay for you know so so it was it was great to have them do that it was able to allow us to pay for the kids to pay for the extension of the program program later on we were able to buy 3D computers with Lea funded funds and then incorporate them into the Robotics and add the classroom at the eighth grade level and at the high school our CAD cam program added the robotics component with the 3D printers as well so it expanded what we were already doing in high school and started the program in eighth grade so that because you know Technology and Engineering as much as it was covering some of those engineering standards it wasn't really covering the technology portion you know it was doing the pulleys and levers
127and it was doing all those things to reinforce what was going on in the classroom but it didn't give us enough to really dive in and um so that was a program that you know I was really proud of and it was very exciting to see the kids go out on the weekends and compete and I know the the one of the groups fourth and fifth grade this year did really well in their competition so you know that was just fabulous and they're a great organization to partner with and they keep telling me that there are supposed to be more funds released for you know Technology Innovation and schools but I haven't seen them seen them hit the grants Pages yet but um what they've said is that first will be included in those when
128they come out from Desi so it's keeping our fingers crossed and hoping because I'd like to you know start those kind of programs I think that it's amazing when you start to see the kids and you see who are the designers who are the thinkers and who are the builders right when they find their Niche it's it's amazing to see how they work together and they just they just kind of find it you know they find their way to that and that program really allows for it so it's it's an exciting tool just asked my second question sure could you describe for us what the teaching and learning environment might look like in our district five or ten years from now moving on hoverboards or something no um I mean flying car yeah maybe they're
129building it that would be even better but uh yeah I I'd like to be able to say that there'll be you know people taking Innovative approaches and trying out-of-the-box ideas and engaging students you know I'd like to see teachers and and this may be happening more than I'm aware of already but you know more as facilitator and you know when I walk into a classroom I want to see students making meaning for themselves I want to see those ahas I want to see them make the mistake like I said and go back and try again and you know take that initiative to you know try and build that app to create you know to win a contest like those kind of things that we can we can use as triggers for kids to allow for
130more Innovation and allow them to push the boundaries a little bit outside the school walls you know you know um you know when I talk about the fact that we have no idea what kind of world these kids are going to be entering in another 11 years you know they're the ones who are going to tell us because they already know so much more than we do that's the hardest thing for most Educators and I always want to say let them teach you let them show you what you can do because you can take it so much farther you know that and a lot of teachers are great at that you know and others it's it's more just fear of what they don't know it's not that they don't want to participate they're just afraid
131of what they don't know already so it's breaking down some of those barriers and you know really trying to get teachers to be more of mentors to students I mean anything a student can pick up their phone for and ask a question for yes we still need to we need to know our standards and we need to understand our history and our Civics and we need to understand and I'm so glad they've added that back in not so sure about the whole government law but I like that it's there you know but I'm really hopeful that we're going to stay with this idea of Project based and you know my groups from our perspective were really pushing the commission or not to Institute another MCAS pencil paper computer multiple choice assessment we really want to
132see it be some type of Project based and tie it to the community so that there's more of a um not just an understanding from the students of what happens in the community but an understanding from the community that the kids know understand and care you know and the same thing with the Arts you know I love I love to see students going out into the community and just you know displaying their artwork in areas that the town is willing to um you know I where was I I was just somewhere where you know they all the electrical boxes are painted by the students at the high school you know where was it that's it but I wasn't in Salem but it was somewhere else yeah but it's that same idea you know make those
133connections you know uh we you know when you don't have the money to create some programs for kids we need to let the community help us give us that platform you know where the cost isn't going to be something that we can't handle great thank you my overtime no they're actually right on time um do you have any questions for us at this time [Music] District Improvement plan as well was there a reason for the goal around um that shared leadership approach to evaluation the the like the the second goal was about having leaders I think study and look at evaluations through a similar lens did not have like a grievance or anything like that but um this is the one at the high school in particular I think was they just felt like everybody
134should be getting evaluated the same way so in order to do that they needed to do some sort of work together to make sure that everybody you know you might come in and observe and see one thing and someone else might come in and observe and see something else and give a different evaluation based on that they wanted to make sure everybody was getting the same but there was not a grievance or there's not like um like that but that was something teachers asked for or administrators asked for I don't know so I mean I I just I found that interesting we did a lot of work on that and so I guess in Winthrop we've done some as well but it's the same thing it's bringing in someone to work with the administrators to
135you know help Define what they're seeing because the training for administrators I mean I did RBT scripted training years ago you know everybody's was different when you came up what time you came up um and it's about you know having that common language and having those goals that you put in that strategic plan this is what we're looking for you know it's okay for the principal the assistant principal and the if the special education evaluator director not director lead in the building are they administrators uh uh they are not does anybody believe they're under the teacher contract they're not under the teacher contract I believe they're but I mean as far as evaluations as anybody other than principals and assistant principals do evaluations in the schools I do believe that those those what sometimes people
136call team chairs that's not what we call them here but I believe that person does is involved in evaluating some of the specialized so that in collaboration with them yeah so it's it's more of that work of them being able to have those conversations around you know the when teachers write their goals in the beginning of the year they need to be tied to the principal's goals for that building which are tied to the superintendent schools and that plan so that when they go in these are the focus points you know so that you're not all over the place all the time and teachers do know what to expect and there's a shared you know commitment to you know you're still covering the different standards within the rubric that you're looking at but you have
137certain points that teachers can always feel comfortable with that are going to be reported on and I think that's important to them um and the last was Alice did you start anything with Alice yes the teachers have all done the online yes so they're in the process the teachers have finished the online but we haven't done trained the trainers to do the done Hands-On training but all the teachers have been trained in the in the actionable piece I don't in the fall they did the online thing I don't think they've done that yeah I don't think so yet training of I don't think the Train the trainer thing has happened I think that was supposed to happen yeah so maybe it's this so I don't know when that would have a fall well the implementation
138of Alice is supposed to happen this then the student well he's next year was the um Community very receptive oh they're the ones that pushed it yeah biggest turnout yep ever really no yeah but in my in my short history but in my short history yes okay they were I don't know I would actually say they're a pretty small group of very vocal very vocal yeah okay good to know um with a very divided line [Music] um good spot to build consensus good area to build consensus going forward um all right I think that's all we have you know if you don't have any questions I just wanted to thank you for uh taking time out to meet us tonight yeah I I really appreciate the opportunity to be here and um you know just
139to leave you guys with I know I hope that my passion for this work really came through tonight my one of the things I wanted to add to when you asked me about leadership style and all you know and I said it's I think it's all about relationships you know I think it's about you know having the core values and treating people the way that you want to be treated and for me that's honesty integrity and respect and I've always believed in that I've always um found that to be what allows me to love what I do and you know I my references from my former um bosses are are great but you know if you had any other questions I encourage you to reach out with any teacher I've ever worked with or it's
140August or um or winter or any administrators because I do feel like that's what they'll say so I thank you so much for your time and I wish you the best of luck thank you thank you so much do you guys have any type of time frame on your process or I know that's probably quick so soon sooner or soonest right gotcha so thank you guys so much I appreciate the time thank you myself everybody just knows how to get here because you know who else who doesn't know right everyone knows well you know Glenn sent that great map and I was like trying to you know put myself in the aerial view well Glenn told us we needed a map because he's been lost multiple times yeah uh we all set what was his
141name Ethan we all set thanks bud um all right so my name is David Polito I'm the chair of the Hamilton Regional School District um just wanted to school committee sorry share of the entire District um but I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to come out and um definitely meet with us I'm going to start everything off with a few questions and then we're going to go around the table kind of in a very crazy zigzag order so basically it's we're trying to keep it really like an open dialogue back and forth and as sort of you say something that might trigger something that someone wants to ask or we've been kind of going that way so um can you just sort of introduce yourself and explain you know why you
142decided to apply to our quiet little District sure so I am currently the superintendent in Scarborough Maine and my contract is coming up at the end of the year and I decided back in November that I wanted to look for some other opportunities I really enjoyed my time working in Massachusetts and have a lot of connections through Boston College and my doctoral program my friend is a superintendent right in the next town over and so I have been looking for a district that I think it would be a good fit both for me and for the district based on my skill set and what I know that I can bring and what interests me about your district is that you're a bit small well you're about half the size of my current District so it
143feels like I'll have a chance to really get to know all the staff and students and really connect with the community which is something that's really important to me but I also see that your district is fairly High achieving and you're doing really well and I like the challenge of being in an organization that is already doing really good things and helping to really understand the system and see you know where are some of the opportunities that we could continue to improve in a lot of ways I think that when you have an underperforming District it's much easier to see that growth happen because there's such large gaps to fill in my experience in Scarborough which is also a high performing school district is that it's a little more challenging to try to you know
144make those same types of improvements or really identify what the actual problem is that we're trying to solve that will lead to scalable Improvement excuse me great can you explain your management style sure my leadership style is very much a shared leadership model I think that it's really important to be flexible and agile as a school district leader and be able to adapt based on the situation that's before you or the task that's before you there are times when as superintendent I will really really need to step up and take the lead on certain initiatives and there will there are other times where I need to be able to identify the internal talent and the capacity that we have throughout the organization and I might play more of like a fellow a follower type of
145role I also have a very sort of design thinking mindset and very much a systems thinker and so I like to have processes in place that allow us to really hone in on different aspects of the organization when we're looking at Improvement or just day-to-day operations and trying to find efficiencies and again that really takes a flexible sort of mindset so that depending upon what it is that we're focused on at that moment I might need to lead in a very different way um So currently we're looking for an interim superintendent for next year could you describe sort of our uh the differences between what you know feel a interim and a full-time superintendent um have and bring to you know your thought process coming in sure that's really one of my questions for you
146um I think it depends upon the organization sometimes you bring an interim in because you just want to maintain status quo and you want things to just sort of run on time and you know the buses to run on time and lunch to get served every day other times I think bringing in an interim has a mutual benefit for both the district and the superintendent particularly in my case because I'm not close to retirement I'm not doing this just as you know a second income or anything like that I'm looking to be able to test drive the district in the same way you would be able to test drive me and see if we do if we are a good fit both ways because I think that that's really important and I would hope that
147I would be able to really impress you during the the interim time and that this could become a more long-term opportunity excuse me um this is uh sort of a unique situation that we're looking at as a district right now do you have any experience um we're building a new building or purchasing land on behalf of a school district so I have not personally been involved with purchasing land but in my past two districts prior to Scarborough there were building projects that were going on during that time and so I got to play various roles in that so when I was in New Jersey I was a principal at the time we were building an upper elementary school and my role was really to help think about the programming and to get teacher input on
148Space design and Furniture choices and things like that Less on the actual construction part of it and then when I was in Haverhill we were building the honking middle school and again I wasn't directly involved with the project but got to really learn from my Superintendent at the time sort of how he managed the project how he kept the school committee and community in the loop and then some of the various decisions that were made great Gene want to go yeah so can you tell us about your philosophy and your approach with developing a district-wide budget sure budget is one of my favorite times of year it's really you know like eight months out of the year for us in Scarborough we're kind of we're always talking about the budget um but what I really
149like to do when it comes to developing the budget is start with Personnel looking at our human resources and each year with my leadership team currently we start with ground zero like literally putting Post-its out and saying what are the skills and attributes that we look for in every single employee and then how do we know who we want to grow and who maybe we need to let go or coach in a different direction that also helps us think about any enrollment adjustments that we might have and I do this multi-year analysis and it's a spreadsheet that is really interactive so that the principles can go right in and say okay what if I had five sections here what would that do to my average class size who's coming up from the next grade and
150so all of the principals have access to that and we use that as a tool throughout the year but it really starts with the people first because we're a people organization it it's also a good opportunity for us to reinforce our values and our purpose our mission and so we use that time again to to really look at you know are there people in our organization that need a change based on where that might be in their career phases or what we know about them our team configuration so I like to start with that with enrollment and personnel and then we really look at our level Services budget and say okay you know it sounds like we used to say if we close the doors in June and open them in August and then realize
151that we were really selling ourselves short because a lot of the work a lot of budget work happens during that level Services conversation and there's really two pieces that that we've been doing simultaneously so it's meeting one-on-one with each principal and department head to literally go line by line and look at what was approved in the prior year what have they spent to date and then what are they requesting for next year including you know the evidence that they have to support that ask um while we're also putting in new investment proposals and then we kind of have like a shark tank type of multimedia approach where each principal or department head gets to present their new investment proposals and they first they present everyone's listening they then rank those proposals so we have required
152high priority medium priority and low priority and low priority just means that it might not be something that happens in this year but we want to get it out there we want the community to know that these are this is the direction we're moving in and after each person presents all that we then re-rank them with the K-12 perspective and I think that that's really important because of course as a principal at anything you're bringing forward as a new investment or even a part as part of your level service budget you think is absolutely important and essential to improving student outcomes but we in Scarborough often have budget challenges the community only gets to vote on the school budget so they you have a lot of people voting yes or no for a lot of
153different reasons and so we do a lot of communication as well throughout the process it's really transparent as we get down to what are we going to present as the proposal and then after first reading it becomes the school board's budget really and then they're involved in the process of looking at our priorities and in some cases they want us to add things in sometimes we have to take things out and then for us ultimately it's the Town Council that approves the budget so let me ask you this then so in your Shark Tank analogy who are the charts like who you who are the people presenting too so we're presenting to ourselves as a leadership team and then um we actually two years ago created this really cool document it's like my favorite flow
154document it shows what's our level Services what is it after I told you I loved it what is it after um adjustments you know adjusting for breakage or potential retirements and things and then we start with required services and so as a taxpayer you can see the impact it has both on our gross expenditures and our net expenditures and you can see like for example we needed to add a very small amount of money this year to one of our schools because when I was doing an analysis of their discretionary spending there was a gap so they were so we're closing that Gap and it's a little bit of money but we still put it right out there as a new investment because we don't want to over generalize what level Services is and then
155we you know we talk about where are we going to draw the red line because we can't have everything we can't do it all even sometimes things that are high priority fall below the red line if you will but that has become a really great tool to help us communicate with the town counselors but then also with the board and so all of that sort of happens internally with our team but then we have we've we've learned to break it up into two days because it's a long time to sit in a lot of information for our school board but then the Leadership Council presents it to the school board um and we have a seven member board currently and we break it up so that there's a protocol that we follow we try to
156make it fun because it is a long time to sit through but they get to hear firsthand and it's not always my voice as the superintendent they hear from the team about what's in their budget and what's not in their budget and that's really language that we had refined based on some feedback from the community over the last couple of years that I've been there so that's a two-day process and we do that before the Public Presentation but this is all recorded and people are invited no one ever comes but they can if they want sometimes Town counselors will come and then together the town manager and I present our budget proposal to the Town Council and that is also a meeting in public and that's sort of like the passing of the Baton if
157you will then the school board has their first budget I do a different presentation kind of a higher level so they're hearing it in a lot of different ways and the goal is really to walk them through our budget books so that they have really deep knowledge and they can advocate for what's in the budget or what and what's not in the budget and it's it's a fun process it's an intense you know couple of weeks when we get down to putting the proposal all together one of the other things that we've really worked on is our budget book so it used to just sort of be like a line item analysis of the budget and we've tried to create more of a story so that the community can really see their return on investment
158we've added pictures of kids into the budget because when I first came there were none and we've also added some like fast facts like did you know again just trying to help people feel connected and to realize that it's not just dollars and cents that we're talking about when we're talking about the school budget um so how familiar are you with um Mass state law especially with regard to um School financing chapter 70. well even in Regional yeah District so how familiar are you and if and if you would I guess maybe what other challenges or how would you overcome those challenges of being and getting more familiar with Mass state law what's going on well I am fairly familiar with it I'm on the Massachusetts Department of Ed website often because they have really
159awesome resources and even in my work in Maine I will often go onto their website in terms of the funding I understand how the formula Works um and it's it's similar in Scarborough different language but similar idea and just to put it in perspective we have a 48 million dollar budget and we receive currently three million dollars from the state 3.3 million dollars this year which is a big uptick from last year um and I we also have in Scarborough a shifting demographic so our 85 Plus population is is growing like a rapid pace and our school age population is shrinking except that we're now seeing a lot of new families coming in in our primary grades so this is part of our challenge right is because we have a community that supports our schools
160and knows that school is import important but at the same time it falls almost solely on our taxpayers to fund public education so can I just follow up on that a little bit a little bit more because I don't know if you have in front of you but you were an assistant superintendent in Haverhill did were you involved in the budget process at all while you know in those couple years that you were there or I was actually my first year there um I spent a lot of time really trying to understand the budget we had massive funding challenges we never received a nickel over net School spending and I would say to the superintendent why can't we advocate for more why can't we go to the mayor and ask for more and then the
161second year that I was there our business manager was actually um sick and so he wasn't in often and then we ended up eventually hiring one but we went several months without a business manager and that's where I started sort of like creating this process that I currently use was in Haverhill working with our principals to to get the budget started how you have reached out to strengthen relationships and build trust for the schools with local stakeholders whether that's the faculty families local Municipal officials the school committee business Community or taxpayers sure I could kind of give you a quick example for each if you if you'd like as part of my entry plan into Scarborough I the number one thing that I was focused on was really building relationships and trying to establish trust
162and credibility because I knew that there were budget challenges and I knew that was going to be it was a big charge from the school board to really help us pass our budget on the first try because it had historically taken multiple votes for the budget to pass and so I had over 90 one-on-one interviews when I first transitioned into the district so basically door wide open anyone who wanted to meet I made myself available I also strategically reached out to the chief of police and chief of fire the town manager other key leaders in the community known leaders in the community so that I could start to establish trust in a rapport with them and I think that the relationships that I've built with them are really something that I'm proud of in my
163time in Scarborough I also had lots of coffee with our concerned taxpayers they are a very well organized very vocal group and so um Reach Out directly to them as well and had many conversations with them I even took a walk on the beach with like the lead guy who is the blog writer and um just to kind of step outside of a formal setting and try to meet him where he was and really understand his perspectives and where he was coming from and some of the things he wanted to have more information about that were frustrating him I was able to put in place quite easily one example would be my monthly enrollment reports so I do an analysis of our enrollment every month at the first school board meeting and have also made
164that work available right on our website so that if you go under the superintendents page it's right there so just trying to increase transparency when it came to staff my my goal every year and I think I would continue this goal is to have 100 School visits authentic School visits in a school year I think it's really important to be visible and for staff to see you in a lot of different formal and informal ways and I track that right outside my office so a it helps me know if I'm spending all my time at one school versus another but it also really motivates me if I'm halfway through the month and I see I've only been to like three schools that month I make it a priority to start my day at a school
165so that I can really connect with the students and the staff and that also makes it easier for you to build relationships with families because often they're in and around the schools and I make a point to attend a lot of our students events Not Just Sports but the Performing Arts and the visual arts as well um what's the breakdown of this covers discover District like how many schools how many students we have six schools we have 2 987 students I believe um we have three primary schools that are quote unquote neighborhood schools and I I say it with those air quotes because really the way our population is growing it's becoming less of a neighborhood school but there's still a lot of passion and connection to those three little schools um and then we
166have an intermediate school which is grades three four and five a middle school which is grades six through eight and then a high school that's nine through twelve regionalizational schools districts pose some challenges and um just different nuances so how would you bring yourself up to speed how you know how would you figure this out sure well one of the things I first started doing was just trying to understand what makes Hamilton and when I'm unique and what makes them similar and so I think that it's really kind of understanding what are the roots of each of those communities and what what are the values and what's what are the what is the individual identity and then how do we come together as one Regional Community when I was in New Jersey I was part
167of a Regional School District so we were a pre-k through sixth district and we sent to a Regional Middle School in high school and so it was also you know and that and my roles in that District as a teacher a principal a director of curriculum it was really getting to know my regional partners and making sure that we made time for us to come together and speak with each other regularly and we would analyze our goals and look at our student data and we even you know designed some common assessments and things like that that we could use across the board that would help the middle school and High School have a greater predictors of where students were successful and where they needed to grow and so that's kind of a different perspective because
168we were sending to the regional but I think it's it sounds really easy in theory to like oh two small communities like we'll just put them together but there's there's a bit more challenge to that as you as you all know so I think it's just taking time to really learn what makes each Community unique and then where do we have our commonalities my turn hi doctor can you give examples of programs or educational policies to improve quality of instruction that you have implemented in other school districts let me read that again no I don't know policy example I would give you is um so when I first came to Scarborough they had just adopted a transgender policy and they were the first school district in Maine to do so and so one of my
169questions was what have we done in terms of training and development of Staff Knowledge and Skills in order to implement that policy because you know adopting a policy is the easy part it's the implementation that takes work and effort and intentionality and I had learned that they really hadn't done much and so talking with students and we had a we had a GSA that kind of disbanded but then came back to was starting to come back together and there were some student leaders who were really interested and really developing that and they wanted opportunities to speak to staff and they wanted to help us learn about not just transgender students needs but really equity in general and so with that we ended up bringing it to the I ended up bringing it to the Leadership
170Council first and we closed read the policy and part of what the policy asked for was a a safety plan to be created for any student who identified whether it be as transgender or genderqueer or any non-conforming really and so I when when we talked about it as a leadership team it was kind of the questions were well what are the right questions to ask and you could tell there was a lot of uncertainty just around um you know people not wanting to offend a student or a family um and so we brought together our social workers some students some school leaders and some District leaders and created an equity Improvement Network and then went through an actual problem solving analysis using like the plan do study act Improvement model to really say how do
171we know we're solving the right problem and so three different groups read the policy and then worked individually to like work through a driver diagram and say well what is the real kind of you could think like five wise well why well why but why so we thought we came into the room to create a template for this safety plan but what we ended up leaving that one meeting was we don't just need a template for a safety plan for this student group we need all of our staff and students to feel safe often included which was a part of their long-range Vision initially and so from there it ended up turning into a student group a student Equity Improvement group that they developed a website they created trainings for leadership that then they would
172be willing to come into their buildings and train staff and so some of them were you know just as simple as like What's the vocabulary and students LED these trainings which I think was the best part about it because they're ready to have the conversations and they weren't nervous about having the conversations they were eager and excited to be the teachers in this case another module was about microaggressions another one was about race another was about gender identity and they also on their website that they created created a social justice Library as well so they had age-appropriate books that addressed different social issues and different types of equity topics thank you could you describe for us what the teaching and learning environment might look like in our district five or ten years from now it's
173a fun one to think about so we're going into the fourth Industrial Revolution or we're in the fourth Industrial Revolution right I can't quite imagine exactly what it'll look like but I know that one thing Public Schools need to do is be able to improve at a different pace than we've currently been used to improving and I think that starts with teacher training but also with mindset so how are we going to think about what teaching and learning is and this would be one of the things I would be listening to learn about as I transition into the district is kind of where are we now in terms of our practices and our beliefs around what is best practice in education because we're going to have to start there right but I think that we're
174going to see more and more students wanting flexibility in their schedule we're going to see more and more students and families demanding relevance they want to they're going to want to have a purpose behind what they do and we've been saying this for decades but I think the rubber is really going to hit the road so how that saying goes because families are going to demand it and so now is the time to get into the 21st century before it's over kind of a thing so we have to really be able to think about that and really understand what drives today's learner because it's you know we're in it we're in a whole different kind of era if you will and there's this whole thing e-games do you guys know about e-games or Esports yes
175have you been hearing about your sports do you guys have any of that going on we do not have an Esports team it's fascinating I'm just I'm just learning about it but I have read that there are high schools that have these like Esports teams that oh yeah absolutely and they're saying like if you you know you want your kids to get scholarships like Esports is the is the path and it's not just sitting around playing video games it's much more intense than that in a good way um the schools will be presenting to us a new strategic blueprint at our next in June school committee meeting okay great um as an interim superintendent how would you Embrace that or how would you um acknowledge Embrace or sure um well I'll give you the example
176of when I came to Scarborough they had they didn't have quite yet Define a defined mission statement they had what they were calling their um student-centered vision and so for the first year it was really talking to people like who knew it existed were we actually using it was it driving our decision making and what I learned was that the people who helped create it had a lot of ownership of it and felt very connected to it and it really embodied their daily work but for the majority of our teachers they didn't even know that it existed and so when I think about strategic plans I think about a table and you have to have these four legs right no one likes to sit at a wobbly table and so we I use this analogy
177right from the beginning with my leadership team during our first Retreat over the summer and just basically said so what where's our mission where's that leg where's our vision where are our values what are our values and then what are our goals and what we found was that we sort of had pieces but the table was super wobbly and so we really rebranded what already existed because when I looked at this you student-centered Vision it really it really was their long-range vision for continuous Improvement or I'm sorry it really was their their core values because it started with we believe and it said the students will the teachers will the parents will all through the community and the the long-range Vision was more of the the Strategic actions that they had listed in a whole
178separate document so we kept that their same good work there was no we just named it and kind of organized it in a way and literally on a whiteboard one day you know stuck the things up on the wall we know we need a Mission Vision but like what kind of where are these pieces and then we together worked on Crafting a mission statement and wordsmithing that for days as you do with one of those mission statements but if that works already been done and there's a I'm assuming there will be a high level of investment in that work and it will bring Clarity to you know where the organization is going it's my job to really understand that and assimilate to that work that's been done we've had some difficulty in the last couple
179of years with some increased cost in our special education is particularly out of District placements so what types of creative ideas might you suggest to help us meet the educational needs of those students who are needing to be outplaced so I think I would first need to understand who are we serving really well within our school system I mean the goal is obviously to keep all of our students in their home schools and in our district but there are times when we just might not have the proper programming so I would really want to study that and understand who's going out and who's staying in and sometimes it's just really giving your special ed director the permission to to think more creatively outside of the box and or to have access to resources to build
180programming within the district our group rule of thumb in Scarborough Israeli once a student becomes sort of two adults to one student is when we start to say is this the right placement or if there are extreme safety concerns that are beyond our ability to manage within the school day but it most of the time it's much more cost effective to build the program in your District particularly if you know you have a pipeline of kids coming in with the with similar needs and demands and then of course it requires training and staff need to have the Knowledge and Skills to feel confident to support our students with the most intense needs whether they're behavioral social emotional or academic can I ask have you experienced that bringing a program creating a program to bring a
181student back in um yes definitely so um I'm just thinking recently well one of the things that we did was create a program and our K2 schools and then knowing that we were going to have to then as those students aged up into the Wentworth School this year we just added another program at the Wentworth school that didn't exist there before and so I'm not directly doing that work as superintendent but definitely talking with my director of special services and the assistant director about that and that's part of our budget process really is looking at that forecast and who do we know is coming in and what do we know their needs will be and we're in the same boat really we do a great job I think when I we have about six kids
182out of District total out of you know our nearly 3 000 students and half of them currently are students who Moved In from another state in the middle of their academic career so our students who grow up with us if you will we've really been able to adapt and in some cases they might go out for a year or two and then we're able to bring them back that happened this year for two students but we're always saying how do we bring him back that's always the goal right always the goal he's probably going to call question um so in the first round of us um looking at who we wanted to invite your name was mentioned but then not ultimately considered because there was Google because there was controversy so is there anything you
183want to say about controversy and how you handle it sure um so that was probably one of the hardest times in my life I would say and it's not all been easy for me personally or professionally but I from the very beginning what I had said to my board and what I said to my leadership team and to my central office staff was there's three things we're going to do every day we're going to be positive we're going to be professional and we're going to be student centered and for some of my board members who so at the time that all of that really happened and so just to kind of bring it back when I was hired in 2016 is very clear that one of the priorities was to change start times a very
184experienced Superintendent at bus was at Boston College teaching our cohort and he was like oh no this is a landmine he's like stop the class everybody help Julie create a plan for this and it was literally I hadn't even started the job yet um so I knew that was going to be a challenge going in um and but again I also understand the research and I knew the why behind it and I wanted to work really hard for the school board to make that happen for our kids because I do believe it is what was best for our kids so we were already in the midst of that right and there was groups that had organized on social media and around the community to compromise Scarborough school start times that was already going on also
185when I came we were at implementation point for proficiency-based diplomas and in November as I'm listening and learning about where we are and where we need to go the high school principal said we're not doing it we're not going to be ready and I was like well the law says we have to be ready so let's take a step back and think about how do we need to get ready and I would say one of the things that we put a committee together and we spent several days working on through a process that was led by our director of curriculum and a consultant one of the things we did that was I would say as a mistake was try to adjust the grading and Reporting scale before the prerequisite work had been done around just
186what are our beliefs about grading and Reporting generally what our beliefs about learning generally and so I think that was just the timing of getting there at implementation so those two very passionate controversial things were already going on really from the minute I was hired and for years before that one of my should have brought it my favorite document is something from our local paper it was like an insert and it was written in 2014 but you would have thought it was written like right yesterday because it was they were talking about the same things but somehow everyone seemed to be surprised and then during that so during that really big intensive work the high school principal also resigned really unexpectedly and um I will say that I learned a ton from that experience but
187you know people would say to me all the time like how do you even walk through the door like how and I would say there's 2987 reasons why and I wasn't saying that to be like as a cliche I really that's really what got me up every day to come to work and that was through people picketing out front of town hall I mean there were people collecting signatures because during that time also three school board members were recalled and I think that's what made it really hard I as as a superintendent you need a board that supports you you need a school committee that supports you we have to be able to have really Frank conversations you have to be able to give me really critical feedback and I have to be able to
188accept that and adjust and then you know I didn't know that you could recall school board members so but even with that you know we knew and and to hear these three women who were recalled from the school board they would say like no we will go through this process rather than compromise on start times because that's how passionately we believe about um believe in this work and what we're doing and the same thing you know with the high school principal they were like we will go through this process which was horrible for them and their families um because we so believe in the work that we're doing and so that gave me a lot of conviction as well to know that they were willing to um really sacrifice a lot for that work but
189I I think it's just you know tougher than I look and I would just come back to the work that we do and why we do it the reason why I started as an educator it's the reason why I want to continue to do this work and it's also I mean to to problem solve at that level I find it really motivating and inspiring too it's amazing thank you thank you for your honest sure excuse me uh the last question I had um was really just sort of coming in as an interim and really your thoughts on you know how to in time to transition like this you really rely on the existing senior staff to try and and have a it to really help you along you know what would you do or what
190are your thoughts on retaining senior staff and sort of keeping them inspired even if you know you're only here for a year sure um well I think it's really important that they feel valued you know I can't come in being the one all-knowing they're the experts this is their District they've been working on this strategic plan so I really need to become a student of them and also you know really understanding who's connected to who and you know who goes to who for advice I mean in organizations we have this like formal hierarchy right but then there's what really happens and who people really go to and that's a passion of mine to really just kind of study relationships in that way and I think it's really important to do that during the entry process
191um in Scarborough they actually had a failed search and are now bringing in an interim and I'm trying to empower my central office leadership team and my Leadership Council which is all the principles included to say you guys are good like you have a plan you know where you're going um this person is going to come in and support that work in trying to reassure them that you don't have to take sharp turns you don't need me to create the transition plan like you are the transition plan um and so I think that that's you know seeing it kind of on the other side I'm going to have a lot of empathy and compassion for understanding what that feels like for them but then also knowing my job is to come here and help them
192do their work it's not to you know yes it's to run the district technically but I can't do it by myself and so I need to really lean on them and let them be the leads in a lot of ways wait that's all I have does anyone else have any do you have any questions for us at this time or sure um so my one question is why interim what made you decide to go with an interim instead of posting for a full-time position I don't want time so I think timing timing yeah yeah yep I also think that we I know personally I didn't want to give the impression to the community that I wasn't interested in there feedback and involvement in the the timing you know is a real place key in that
193like okay well you know you trusted us to enough to elect us right as a board that we could take care of this interim and then you know going forward let's do this process right really get feedback from teachers community members and and every you know all stakeholders as we really just extend the full search yeah I just think that's important especially in a community like this where everyone is very really involved it sounds a lot very similar like the Scarborough type Community where I wanted to make sure that everybody felt that their voice was going to be heard and but this just needed to happen very quickly right right I think that's really smart and then you'll have Community forums and do like some sort of community survey and things like that right great
194so my next question is what are you can actually ask you that question but some of the ones we asked before is what experience have you had in guiding uh a school committee in a search for a superintendent so it sounds to me like you have some of that experience right now it's very relevant at the moment so um because we'll need some guidance around that and But ultimately maybe not as much guidance if you you have provided if you decide that you wanted to be a candidate then you know we would need your counsel but you know try and keep it distance so that it was fair sure for everyone involved yeah so I mean what I did with my current School Board chair was we met back in November when I made my
195announcement that I wasn't going to be seeking an extension or a renewal of any kind from this board I showed her examples from other districts I showed her some that are very transparent with the process and see I also had all of the information from when I applied for from Scarborough before because they did do much of what you're thinking of Dave and when I applied for the job they had all the the survey information was out there I knew what was said at the community forums I watched previous meetings and I was saying to her that that's also like anyone who's worth their salt is going to do these things coming in so having I encourage them to have all of that done up front that's not what they chose to do but that
196was my guidance for them and then I showed them some districts that you know the timeline is right out there everyone knows exactly what's going to happen when and others there's one community in Maine where the school they did not have any outside support and it was really vague and you didn't really know kind of where they were in the process and they had posted in December like really early on so I showed her sort of these are your kind of extremes if you will and then they did decide to use them the Local School Board Association to guide them but they then sort of picked a la carte different pieces and so even now in the budget process I encourage them to budget a bit more so that they can do this search more
197extensively and reminding them that you're going to want to start this earlier next time around so that you do have access to more candidates and can go back out if you if you don't find a candidate in the first round but then also so just little things like I would remind them that every one of you are meetings in public is an audition for your next superintendent and so thinking about the way as they were coming together as a really novice board the way that they were going to treat each other and treat administrators and talk about different aspects of our work in public because goes both ways right so and I like doing that kind of stuff because I'm a systems thinker and I think whenever you have a good process it's you're going
198to get a better outcome so I'm sorry I interrupted your question but yeah that's okay all right we're getting right to work here um one of the other questions I had is just what what would be some of your expectations in the first 30 days 60 days 90 days of this interim position man that's a great question um well I do think the thing in about the first 30 days is you know we'll be closing up the boat summer and you know you know so I don't think that we've actually thought about it ourselves but you know I would see that you know there'd probably be a lot of you talking with a lot of individual people and then compiling some sort of Rapport at the end of the summer letting us know like these
199are the things that I learned and this is how they fit in with the plans that I as I understand them and then conferring and we would then move forward to starting our budget process not sure right away um yeah I mean I I really think that's a good good assumption I mean I I would think that we you know is smoother transition we can come in to try and keep everything sort of um yeah afloat a very good word um would be the immediate you know um concern and then again I like the idea of sort of taking the summer to figure out everything and then sort of reporting back and what you need you know from us and obviously we'll be even though we don't really meet regularly in the summer we don't
200be available okay um you know at that capacity but um you know I like that idea again we I guess that's something we really hadn't thought of as we've been delving into this so quickly and um potentially hiring an assistant in your office she's retiring and um yeah which is actually really so people are going together and so you know if we if that job isn't posted and hired before someone would start that's going to be an initial sort of thing to do yeah because you really can't move along if you don't have some sort of administrative support who even just knows what where the phone list is so that you can make little institutional knowledge is good yeah so I would have want to meet with her or him before they retire right that
201would be tough on the list a lot of institutional I just happen to have this in the car because my daughter likes to look at it this was actually it's not a good copy of it but I this is the entry plan that I created to kind of share out at my initial conversations with folks um and so I would want to do something similar to this that would really map out so the community would have clear expectations of like what is this person doing for a year are they just you know sitting around collecting a paycheck are they actually going to work right and so we together could develop something similar but I found this to be a great tool a great takeaway after I would meet folks it has my picture in it
202too then they would be able to reference it and um in the summer they have they had like the Summer Fest and we had never had a table at it before but I set up a table and now we do it each year we gave away some Scarborough swag and then I also had these available so now when we have new administrators like last summer we had two new principals they they're there to do like meet and greets with folks so I think that that would be something that would really help me kind of start to understand the landscape but then also communicate what our expectations are right do you mind if we we can I'm a little embarrassed missed it because we had our big 375th anniversary last year and the principal here was
203new and all of a sudden he's like putting together a float for a parade he's like wow this is a great summer thing and we're like just this summer all right and then and then I like so another way to think about the interim is almost like a consultant to come in and sort of just assess and make recommendations based on what you think best next steps are um so obviously that wasn't my the context of my report but I did report out at a public meeting a school board meeting my findings from the entry process great do you have any other questions for us um I think the the general just like what's the timeline is a question and What Makes You Most excited about the future for your District I'm actually so this
204is a tedious process and I'm I don't want to say I don't enjoy I'm not enjoying the process it's just um very tedious and tricky but I do as much as I really enjoy in respect Dr Harvey who's leaving now I do see this is a wonderful opportunity I think Dr Harvey is leaving this District in a tremendously great place and he's really set up the foundation for real educational growth within our district we are already a very high functioning District but there's always room for improvement and I think that you know looking at the positive side of this situation is the fact that bringing in some you know New Blood it didn't don't get me wrong I would have loved for him to stay and continue you know to see where he took the
205district in the future but it does give that opportunity of having you know someone come in and really help us figure out what the future of this Ali have for students within the district myself the youngest being in second grade so it's going to be a very important you know I have a lot of buy-in yeah you know um with the where this district is going so I think it's a really exciting opportunity um you know for that as far as timeline obviously um Dr Harvey's leaving you know basically his last day it will be like June 14th um so it's very rapid after you leave tonight after we're done with you tonight we're sort of going to discuss what our next steps are going to be um because we're sort of trying to figure
206this out on the Fly no matter what it is going to be very rapid okay um it's just I can't tell you if it's going to be tonight if it's going to be Tuesday so if it's going to be you know two weeks from now but it you know it's going to happen that fast okay so very fast good is there anything else that anyone wants to add I mean I love talking about stuff like that I'll go all night yeah I just I just think the timing is great with the new strategic blueprint being presented you talked about the fourth Industrial Revolution change School Michelle mentioned that earlier there's just a lot happening so it's exciting things and I'm I'm almost out of here after 19 years so as a parent so it's still
207here but almost out of here so I mean that's a graduate I you know from 90 25 years ago I still want to see you graduated from the district yes oh that's great and then you have four kids in District yes do you all have children in the district we are a very unique board in that we all have children in the district yeah it's great yeah yeah good all right annual taxpayers and we're all alone and we're all taxpayers yeah we should work on that exemption thank you very much so many emails for that um [Laughter] what grades Sixth and eighth and but half a year at the high school at multiple long-term Subs awesome that's also unique to have Educators on the board well there's quite a few of us who have taught
208or are you teaching so good we can speak we can get all jargony with each other thank you so much foreign which now what the heck do we do so actually no I don't but they should be um well should we discuss like what we liked and disliked about or about each of the candles separately so I don't know that we did so should we ask Glenn yeah what should we do Glenn you know we're on television so all the comments you make Republican on the record and you want to be very careful about uh confusing your opinion for fact about anybody right so for example the case I often give is when someone says well I like candidate a because she was good on curriculum candidate B wasn't as strong in budget as I
209might have liked and then the next thing you know candidate B is labeled can't do budgets for the rest of her life so um it's helpful to talk about the things that you liked anything that you thought was a strength or something that you thought was less of a strength it's okay to talk about that but just remember that your comments May attach to the individuals as fact even if it's simply opinion but you're certainly free to talk about them it's a public meeting and they know what's in public and they know their episodic public figures for the purpose of your search I I think also we want to keep in mind that even though we interviewed three tonight um we should look at we should be including Susan kriska in Susan doctor my thoughts
210and you know in our thought process here um I'm gonna go I'm going to sort of come out and say the easiest thing I could say is that I there I don't think I'd be comfortable making a decision tonight um I think I from the four that we've interviewed at this point or even if you want to include all seven you know I think that I have two that I like in particular that have very good strengths strengths but they're also very different strikes and you know knowing that giving that I I could be I don't want to say suede but I could be convinced that either would make a great um interim and possibly long term to be quite honest Superintendent at the same time I also do wonder if we are content with
211stopping the list here and or continuing with our you know diligence because I do know um of a couple of other people that have expressed interest as part of this plan B process so that's sort of where my thought process is right now and you know I'm just curious to sort of think where everybody else is at the same time I came prepared tonight to make a decision and and I well I'm not certain who I would pick I'm certain that there was a candidate tonight that will would be successful here I think we saw good candidates and I do feel that there is a candidate and I'm not sure which one it is but I'm sure there is a candidate in tonight's pool that would be successful here I don't know how other people
212feel about that though I'd hate to um delay the process if there are two great candidates other candidates out there I wish that they had come forward sooner we have had a long process I just feel that if we put it off another day it's going to be another week and then we're getting closer to July 1st and we're going to be a ship without a captain so I I definitely understand that point too the thought of trying to schedule more interviews right right and I I agree that we've got we have two strong candidates here tonight um I think we had three great candidates I think we had two that fit our district yeah yes correct thank you yes that's correct the four Great candidates right correct yes yeah we do um and also
213the other two that you have in mind there's the opportunity of the permanent correct position too that's true yeah but I mean I I agree with I agree with both Michelle's um you know I don't I I don't the the idea of extending the search scares me honestly knowing that Dr Harvey's only here until June 14th right I mean we're on May 15th it's only a month away so can I ask a hard question yeah do you feel that we've done an adequate enough search at this time that you're comfortable with every everybody that's come in that's a good question yes yes yes yes yes for where we are right now yes not where we're going to be a year from now but right now yes no I I mean and I just want to
214sort of make sure that we're we're thinking in that process I I do and you know like I said I um you know Glenn has let me know of a couple other people that have expressed interest and you know they would also be good candidates but you know they weren't for whatever reason they weren't involved in the first part and you know um you know so like I've had this internal conflict you know like I'm like all right well if there's going to be a superstar here and there were two superstars tonight I felt yeah and you know what would I do with that you know in that case um but I I do think that we we have been thorough enough in that in that sense I mean at the on the other end
215of the spectrum we could keep interviewing for three months and still probably come up with a couple new candidates every month that should be here Italy sitting for the interviews the other I guess hard question I have is do we feel comfortable enough with only five of us sitting in this room to make that conversation to make this decision I don't love it yeah I mean it's tough but I also I also think that you know it's unfortunate and like life does happen and the two people who aren't here it's unfortunate um [Music] yeah no I I appreciate that I I know if I wasn't here I might be upset upset that I wasn't here but I knew I wasn't here right and that that was either a choice or a circumstance that wasn't unchangeable
216right so so at this point I think we should follow Jean's plan and talk about the kids yeah no I mean that's really what I was going to say yeah um sorry do we go about this just sort of let's say pick the top two again or do we want to talk about all four let's see sort of try and narrow it down it's an honest question maybe we could go around sort of say who are the top two picks and see if there's consensus yeah maybe the ease yeah more efficient way may not necessarily be but I don't know if I have my top two yet so um so I'm going to put four so that would be I'm gonna put s for Susan a for Anthony Lori L for Lori and Jay yeah
217I don't mind starting I would say Lori and Julie I would say Anthony Colonial and Dr cookenberger um I would be willing to give two votes to Dr kukenberger but if we're gonna split them I'm gonna go with Miss gal yeah Miss Galvin and Dr cookenberger I'm gonna go with um Miss Gallivan and bring back in Dr kotzko my one is Dr gallavin I don't know I'm torn you're torn between uh kookenberger and Cusco all right what's that I give them both a half okay do you feel comfortable with that well sometimes the decision you should make a decision so can you can you guys talk about why you would want to see Dr koska again I in my I thought her her bandwidth was much uh broader than um than any other than the
218other two I thought she had much more experience she brought a I guess just more experience and she understood the budget pretty well if I can remember from her interview with us she had leadership skills budget skills longevity in the district she showed a huge commitment to Weymouth those are probably my top three I was going to say the same thing Dr Cusco was to me very well-rounded on instructional as well as non-instructional aspects of managing a district um yeah I thought that was really a strong Plus I definitely like what um uh Dr kookenberger had to say in an interview though I mean as a little concern initially because she didn't really have as much experience in Massachusetts but um I think her answers were really strong and I think her perspective um I
219don't say that it was refreshing but it's it's very interesting to hear honestly the women speak versus the men definitely in their approach and I I have to say honestly I like the fact that we have three very strong women as candidates in this pool yeah I I felt like um one of the same thing like the ladies in Maine like it you know um but then I felt like talking to her her doctoral program and was it in Boston you know that she had this experience in Haverhill and it sounded like she had a lot of responsibility for finance put on her there unexpectedly I liked how she talked about developing this budgets whatever it is spreadsheet program that really is transparent for the principals to work with um it sounded to me like
220she could pull together a budget that really um was collaborative amongst the leadership team and then could be spoken out and it also sounded to me like she was training her board to be the advocates for that more than just her so I really liked that about her approach and until I saw her I felt like um Miss Galvin or galavan like she had some great experience um I thought you know that was fantastic but I just felt like um Dr cookenberger was like her demeanor was gonna be something that would work well with our towns and I felt like it was you know and she also reminds me of someone in town so I think I was kind of like thinking wow that's just like someone who would live here you know I I
221felt it's funny because I actually have very very similar thoughts to you I thought that in listening to Dr kukenberger speak of her District even though it was in Maine and it wasn't Regional it seemed like she faced a lot of the same things you would face in this town surprisingly um you know which is definitely something to consider um and then you know my thought process on on Lori Galvin was that she is familiar with the Massachusetts system and you know even though you know Saugus and Winthrop are very or different districts than here you know if we're looking for a quicker transition that would probably be an easier transition yeah just from that you know Mass law municipality standpoint but at the same time you know Dr kruegerberger did work in Haverhill which
222is we all know what a difficult District that can be so she has that experience as an assistant superintendent there and just because I know I've looked into the program that that Boston College program is actually meets weekly with superintendents in advanced um faculty from throughout the Boston area on a weekly they meet every Friday so even though she was from Maine and there's probably a few that were from scattered the problem solving they were doing week two week was sort of you know would have been very much involved in you know Mass education so you know I mean it's tough but I mean I think as far as you know it he superintendent demeanor in a tough Enviro any you know tough environment for our own unique tough environment she seemed to sort of
223have that you know and I like what she says like you know tougher that I look you need that around here yeah yeah um again voice support for Anthony colonio I do believe he's very well-rounded I as an educator myself I like that he's rounded in that he's looking to create you know he's a culture Setter he's looking to I like his idea about a future Innovative learning environment um I like the fact that he puts he kept putting students first kept talking about students first making the individual connections what's best for the students he did that more than the other candidates I loved his passion his sincerity his honest answers I thought he had a very wise approach to his management style his relationship building um and you know the the he emphasized the
224constant strong communication with the school committee and the other stakeholders but again as I in the in with the learning hopefully into a new Revolution a new you know it's getting out of this 100 year old model of Education of everything taught in isolation you know subjects taught in isolation um I I like the idea of a future Innovative learning environment my one concern with him is that he has no experience at a assistant or a superintendent level nothing above a principle so I did appreciate his passion and his child-centered philosophy but his budget questions fell a little short especially with Gene Nast pretty direct questions and they did fall a little short I mean they were they were great out there but they weren't the nitty-gritty I think that we need moving forward yeah
225I like the fact that he tied it to the values though the process should be the process of the budget should be tied to the values of the community and then you work with the community to um Focus that budget on our values Michelle what was the count so um about I haven't yeah so it was uh four for Lori um three and a half for Julie one for Anthony and then one and a half for Dr kutzka um anybody change their data I'm not sure may have I'm going to turn my half into a full vote for a cooking Burger though that'll be four and four that'd be four and four so that doesn't make any easier so maybe somebody thinks that you said earlier Gene that was really when we were really narrowing
226them down is we should think about what we need this person to do and who best fits that right you were amazing yeah it was so wise that we remembered it it was so good it was so tired so now we don't really and I think that you know Dr kukenberger kind of asked us that like what do you want us to do me to do so what do we want them to do no harm well yeah is one thing yeah because I thought about that question I didn't really want to sort of derail the thing but you know for me there's two Glide paths right there's the day-to-day that needs to happen right which is you know the central the central leadership team needs to continually meet and meet the goals the the building
227principles still need to get their support uh you know we need to build start building a budget in October even earlier than that um you know so there's that normal Glide path that has to happen on a regular course no matter what happens but then you know we've always been talking at least in the three or two three and a half years I've been on this thing of you know these major big things we have you know the capital plan that still needs to be built we have long metal up on the table we have you know turf field as part of the thing we have all these other larger goals that need to happen so they're they're you know so the thing is like you gotta there's no great way to approach this because
228you need either a technician who can do the day-to-day or you need a real sort of like yeah like a real sort of Earth Mover kind of person because I see the difference the difference in these two candidates one of the two differences yeah you hit it exactly yeah I mean and I don't know what I don't know what you know everybody's gonna all of us are going to have different levels of of how we weigh those things right right so I don't know I mean this is a really it's a challenge it would be challenging even if we're looking for a permanent superintendent right because you because the likelihood of finding somebody who could be the sort of day-to-day tactician and then the long-term strategic person you know people will have their strengths in
229in one or the other and it's very hard to find someone who can do both so if if um and be careful what I say in thinking that our thought process would be uh Lori Gallivan being that day-to-day technician in Julie krukenberger being more of the grander um superintendent you know thought process you know it's then I think the one way we could sort of bring it down which I mean in my head my is the waters are so muddy in my head right now where I thought I was coming with something clear is we're looking for keep the keep the gears spinning for a year coming in here but now it's like okay well what if it is an audition for a year for long term and right so but at the same time
230I could also break these down in both I can give you probably five examples for each on why they make good long-term Subs yeah so and I think that's where we are now because neither one of these candidates is actually looking to be an interim they're both looking to be a superintendent right and so we're in a situation where we are looking at this is an audition we're all four right all four are looking uh all four all four all four are looking for um so we're not in the position where we're hiring someone who's experienced who's here to sort of Management Consultant us for a year where we are kind of looking for someone that we hope is going to impress us and the community and the staff to the point where we can
231just say to the community let's have a meeting and talk about what our needs are and does this person need it yeah I agree now we have to figure out which one that is right I if I agree with that though okay I just I feel like we set out to hire an interim superintendent and I don't think it would be fair to the public to say if this person works out well in December if we're Head Over Heels I don't think it's or even let's say September I don't think it's fair to pull back from the public and say listen we're all set with this person if you go out to the public you ask the public what do we need yep they give you a description and then we say does this person
232meet that need and the public says yes I still have a problem with that though because we I think we need to engage we need to bring someone on the search committee we need to have a teacher it's not fair for us to hire a leader of the district and not have a teacher in it and input in a parent input even if we do even if we do um a survey or whatever what they need what our needs are I think we need to have somebody sit down one to one for any it could be one of the two people you know whomever we pick tonight and maybe we call back another person next year to include them I just I just feel I I think we should be looking at the interim and
233not think of this person as you can have in the back of your head but I don't think it should be the person you know that we're going to hang our hat on for beyond the year in excuse me if I sort of made the impression that I was saying that they would be that I'm saying I could see both of them of course of course yes I just want to make sure I was yes yes you know that is obviously with all of the support and feedback from you know the community community mm-hmm but you know either way ultimately we need to we need to make sure that we set this person up for Success correct right right so that's again like we need to try to be as clear and articulate about what
234we want to do as a committee how we represent the you know our constituents you know the kids this is the parents the staff uh we need to give this person um you know Clear Directions goals the freedom to execute right um one thing I uh when Dr cucumberger was talking about the controversy that she's gone through this year that um she was just talking about like the support of her board was really important and um you know and then when it happened it sounds like those people actually were recalled and like there was people replaced so it sounds like so then she had to like sort of develop a new board culture with that and I thought that might be a good experience for us to have someone who has experience around that kind
235of thing um you know so I thought that was one thing that she spoke of that the other ones didn't um I mean the interesting thing about Dr kukenberger is that she has been a super right I love this too right right you know between Lori and Julie she has them in oh okay I'm sorry she does but her experience is not as great as Laurie Gallivan in terms of years and um and and if you you look at where she was um Dr kukenberger um you know New Jersey as a building principal Haverhill for a year and a half two years Scarborough for two and a half years you look at Laurie Gallivan we're talking you know Lynn Newburyport but long periods of state that she's again entrenched in the community I would think
236if you're there at some place for five six seven eight years you have the support of your staff I'm not I don't know the support that Dr kookenberger has in Maine I don't because I haven't seen anything but I just I'm concerned about that pattern of two years two years two years as opposed to longevity in a certain place and that could be a negative too being in one place for longer than so many years but I'm just that jumping around raises alarms for me so but I could be it just could be old school where you know um her doctorates pretty new and she was you know um not as steeped in her career um but then making the jump from director of community the curriculum to instruction in New Jersey after the district
237leadership I mean after the building level leadership she then assisted superintendent of Haverhill for a few years and then moving to superintendent it wasn't ver they were vertical jumps they weren't poor I mean yeah I mean there's honestly something to be said about being the person completely accountable you know in the person in the role being accountable I mean I just know like you know every time I get promoted to something it's like you know now there's more accountabilities yeah sometimes sometimes they come into the work and thinking like why can't I just be a line staff person you know I'll work in the mail room it says there's something to be said about someone about ish even but I totally agree with Lori and Julie to be my top we're eventually Julie to be
238my second top where I think it's hard weighing all the pros and cons I I think this is the one that have sort of iffy about saying is that right now uh Julie kookenberger is looking for a position for when she gives up her position in July and Laurie Gallivan has been entrenched in districts for a long time would you know she be willing to obviously she's here so she's willing to you know make that jump for uh you know interim one-year contract you know and be unsure at that point so again I'm just throwing it out there right right or does it show or does it show confidence in herself that she's willing to take this leap and say all right give me a you know but I still keep coming back to I
239like I think we need to be more Innovative in our district in our education um set a different culture a growth mindset um and the fact that that Anthony Colin you know you know is principal level that doesn't disturb me because that's that was a classic track to superintendent positions already and it means he understands their roles then he understands the needs of the students and he's connected to the students the the thing about Anthony is and I'd open this in a negative light is he he was very much a um consulted in the way he spoke um especially with you know my familiarity of um the growth mindset sort of brand and branding he he definitely hit a lot of those keywords he actually put keywords buzzwords in my notes he was very good
240about hitting all of those um but we all do that and right but I mean to the point where it almost felt like I was back in a lecture um and while that was fantastic in I mean if I was looking at a billing level leader right now I think he would be very much in the mix but um you know I I'm not I'm sort of beyond that in that sense and it's not because of anything against him I think he was fantastic and I'd actually love for him to come and speak to her I felt that way too I was like he do some really great great stuff here but you know it's we're here to make hard choices right now you know and and it's it's not saying that he's not fantastic
241it's just there are tough decisions to be made in you know he doesn't make my cut so but you know in fact you um well Michelle what you were just saying about he would be great for professional development think of that in the long term someone like that on the long term helping our teachers create Innovative curriculum and and helping our students have a growth mindset because we are really training students we're teaching them for a world that doesn't exist yet and teaching them to be critical thinkers and have a growth mindset to me is the future of Education Glenn do you have any suggestions on path forward like how to well approach I wasn't here for the for the earlier interviews but did the subject of the interim status versus the potential for longer
242status come up with either of the candidates so basically all three of them said that they understood that it was an interim role okay but we're all also looking at it as a you know as a trial period to you know look for the longer I just wanted yeah right okay I wanted to make sure that if you contacted one of them to say we'd like to negotiate an interim contract with you that they wouldn't say wait a minute what's this interim stuff right no okay they all asked um so yeah here's the easy part you know like so do you have any advice for us now analysis well you know as as my financial advisor friends will readily admit in private even those in the know don't know right so it's always that's reassuring
243it's always a bit of a risk however both of the candidates that you're talking about have well first of all uh Lori has the support of her superintendent who has known her for some time and feels confident in her abilities uh Julie did have a successful experience in Scarborough with the exception of running a foul of the fans of the former high school principal they both predict to be proficient superintendents at least you're in the enviable position of not being able to make a bad choice correct which is a lot better than some districts find themselves at this time is reassuring [Laughter] and and I will tell you that during an interim superintendency everybody in the district is on their best behavior right so everyone wants the year to go well because no one wants
244the next superintendent or the interim who becomes permanent to say you know you were a difficult person you didn't perform well you were undermining my work or I want them to say you were great and we enjoyed working with you and you did a fantastic job so I would suggest to you whatever you do you move forward in confidence and uh make a decision I don't envy the position that you're in so it would be uh would not be appropriate to tell you I don't I don't even know what I'd do if I were in your position because I don't know your District as well as you do but I would say that you're in a position now to give yourself some stability for the next 12 months or longer well you decide what you
245wanted to do next I would suggest that you might want to if you do appoint an interim superintendent tonight whenever that you reassess things in six months and then make a decision about how you wish to proceed because six months from now you will be uh close to the end of the year and you'll still have time if you wish to organize a search and do one the other thing you need to think about is the candidates who might be out looking who'd be candidates in your search process six nine months from now other people that you've talked to other than new candidates who might emerge but the and and six to nine months we'll give uh things an opportunity to settle down in the court of public opinion as well and I'm sure the
246community will move forward if you act with confidence and the next superintendent uh bring Superior interpersonal skills to the position and moves forward with you it's wise advice if Julie kickenberger is is uh in the process of interviewing interviewing for with other districts I'm not aware of I wasn't sure if I should ask or not because I'm not aware of anything at this moment I I know the only real interim super in vacant superintendent vacancy uh that is opened is Salem because they're superintendent is is leaving and I have no idea what they're up to you know what will be fascinating is that Julie mentioned she has a daughter maybe it's very fascinating to have the daughter in the district with her as the interim superintendent well I mean she didn't say I looked it
247up Scarborough is like an hour and a half from here so it's not unreasonable to expect that she would commute right right I mean the principle where I was commutes that far that's true that's true so it's not and it's not a hard commute it's not like she's commuting into Boston I mean she's coming here like you know what I mean that's one thing you can take without uh without traffic right you can totally handle that that's not and you can anticipate what the traffic is going to be every day it's going to be kind of the same so get a self-driving car but yeah and I I think both of them would be good friends for each other you know I do I think they would both really get along and could really build
248each other up so could they be a superintendent it would be great if they both end up being superintendents near Ryan or in this you know so I have to take a poll of the two between the five of us there is there's an alternate strategy which is that you do an oral ballot and you I'm just throwing this out this is the way uh cities that elect Mayors from amongst the city council the process is you go around the room name your candidate at the end the chair says does anybody wish to change their vote and if anybody has a majority then you entertain a motion to to begin contract negotiations that's the oral ballot method Robert's Rules provides for that way nobody has to vote no can I just bring one more top
249or point out one more thing just looking at the references um Laurie Gallivan it's all um superintendent people that have worked with her in a in the school in the day-to-day setting you've got a person one was an interim superintendent of Saugus um assistant principal um or I'm sorry I don't wish this person was from superintendent of schools of I can't say um actually Masco and the last one and the last one she's a superintendent of the Winthrop schools which I think speaks volumes um I wish there was a teacher in here um Julie kuckenberg she has one of her professors at BC a town manager and School Board chair people and a former superintendent um I don't know um I take it I didn't convince anyone to change their vote to co Anthony Colonial
250you did not even though you spoke very eloquently of him but about Innovation I'm passionate about culture critical thinking Innovative learning environments critical thinking so I just think that so it's clear he's not going to go forward right co-workers correct should I I mean I I guess I would throw myself those are the three chair people that were recalled they're strong my other favorite would be Dr cookenberger um I don't know if you heard that I'm sorry no I was just saying since it's clear I don't think Anthony colonino is going to move forward my other favorite was Dr kukenberger so I could I could enthusiastically throw my support behind her as well I I wish I had asked her this question um it may not have been Fair because it is it was posted
251in the Bangor she had um a vote of something like 800 or 80 to one against her the teachers in her Scarborough in the district as the superintendent voting for what what did you just say in favor of her though like a no confidence exactly and no confidence vote they took a no confidence yeah they did did it you understand that votes of no confidence are the latest strategy that the unions are using to intimidate superintendents okay and say you know give us what we want okay well we take a vote of no confidence and humiliate you in public and that sticks to you and it's a tactic okay thank you for vote of no confidence in my judgment is more often a badge of honor than a discrediting credential interesting because we're seeing it
252we're seeing it happen okay thank you thank you I'm glad I mentioned that to her and was it still linked to the fact she was trying to do late starts and was that rubbing parents and teachers the wrong way see that rubbing teacher oh yeah I was going to say if you try it if you if we said right now that we're gonna change the uh flip the start times next year you better believe I'm gonna get a whole bunch of high schools teachers say well the science behind it is the contract he did it which I didn't inherit those problems correct she did inherit those problems when she came on board usually usually it's related to a collective bargaining agreement that's not getting negotiated the termination of a popular individual uh uh or uh
253trying to do something policy wise that um distresses the the bargaining units okay so we see votes of no confidence often in the superintendent occasionally in the school committee on one occasion the superintendent and his secretary the custodian was very upset wanting to know why he was left out yeah okay so it's it's it's a tactic all right thank you for letting me know that um just sort of touch back on the list of references comments to sort of try and do our diligence a little um the idea that there's such a varied amount of stakeholders involved in Dr hookenberg's [Music] letters of reference weighs heavily in me and I think one thing that Peter would probably like is the fact that her dissertation chair did write a letter which I would hope he would
254um but but at the same time just um would go to show that you know innovative education model they have uh again the chair of the board um the superintendent retired superintendent of schools you know the associate professor from BC excuse me actually Dave and a bunch of board members actually listed on the additional references and then the town manager right so I mean that's something that we're definitely looking for is someone that can they can work with all of these people um you know and then but then at the same time you know Lori having all these superintendents that speak highly of her as she's been in the field for so long is also a testament to um her professionalism and her participation in the North Shore superintendents Roundtable which you know Dr Harvey
255has attended so they know some similar concept I don't want to say it out loud what was he sort of part of the crew that started the original Round Table it had been on and off but yeah they've built it up I think we let my halo decide and we go home I recommended a coin yeah I I you know like like I said at the very beginning of this it's it's a tough decision I think both of these candidates are exemplary and I could see both of them coming in and doing great work for us um immediately again I think there are sort of two different mindsets so we're between Gallivan and Dr cooken correct right is it Dr Gallivan yeah okay that's right um so is it right now so what's so it's
256is Dr kusca I take it out of the running as well so we're down to two do we want to have another Voice vote of support I mean is everyone sort of comfortable like and I could really go I could we can't go wrong with either choice can't we well I mean another way to think about it is if we're if we're all saying that we can't go wrong with either these candidates the weather we the way another way to think about it which I'm not necessarily saying that we should do it this way but uh if you think about it as it was not to qualify everything um what are we afraid of then right I'm Not Afraid nope okay I can vote right let's let's do an open ballot then and then but
257it's not binding is it are we gonna do it alphabetically or are we gonna do it how are we gonna do it well so is it binding well I guess at the end I think we well at the end then you make a motion you know is it ready for a motion yeah yeah I mean we could just take a straw poll just sort of say I think that's what that's what it is yeah so I'll start uh Dr kukenberger um I'm gonna go with Dr cookenberger I think I'm gonna go with Dr kukenberger Miss Gallivan I'll go with uh Dr kinkenberger to where I really wish we had the other two here right I mean just a couple more if it was unanimous it would be easier but um I was just saying I
258wish the other two were here as well because if it was unanimous it would be Mr chairman you you've taken an oral ballot so the members have some sense of understanding where people are everyone has had an opportunity to speak on behalf of the candidate they support now you can entertain a motion and the committee can take advantage of the opportunity to vote unanimously or vote however you choose to vote that's the the that's the beauty of the oral ballot nobody has to vote no unless they want to right and and I I don't hope this happens but I think we also would feel comfortable that if we make an offer more unable to settle on a contract that we are pleased with two candidates here correct yeah and your emotions should be to appoint
259person X effective date y subject to the successful negotiation of a mutually agreeable contract of employment uh signed by the Supreme committee or its designee and person a that way if you're unable to negotiate a contract quickly then you simply say okay no thank you and you go to plan C which may be your other alternate candidate and what's the other option we wait to have another school committee meeting to have the full vote of the school the school well I mean that's what I was that's what I was just going to bring up are we comfortable right now voting with five you know or can we they're both families the other option would be sticking it in a very busy agenda on Wednesday for they're both fantastic candidates so I don't think Stacy or
260Kerry would object to either one do you know when you'll have seven people available to you when is it Wednesday so it should be wet next Wednesday but that's like a lifetime away in some ways yeah and not fair to these candidates right who are trying to kind of I mean it is that it isn't I mean let's I mean we're doing what's right for us did you say the 22nd yeah Wednesday next week next Wednesday I think we should I I would be I'd be hesitant to sort of wait to hear from Stacy and Carrie as much as I think yeah the time is right it wouldn't change the vote either if they like if they yeah we have four yeah one person yeah their input might sway people but you know okay so
261at least they had a chance do you wanna who's assistant secretary who's assistant secretary I am sure if you want to make the motion yes so we're making a motion to accept the the oral Vote or point I think we're making a motion to a point contingent on a successful negotiation of employment contract correct now I just I also want to point out to you that the law recognizes no distinction between a temporary superintendent an interim superintendent an Acting Superintendent or a superintendent so what you're agreeing to do is to negotiate a one-year contract yeah with uh okay and and they all know what that is does it matter what she's make either one of making now in in our decision making yeah or making I was trying our salary a salary will be we'll
262be okay we'll talk about that she's uh I'm writing it up she's drafting it I'm trying to figure out so we're making a motion um to make an appointment to negotiate a one-year superintendent the the language the the standard language is is that you appoint whoever you're appointing as superintendent of the Hamilton Wenham Public Schools effective whatever the date is like overlap with the current Supreme Court you mean July 1st 2000 so my first 2019. subject to the successful negotiation of a mutually agreeable contract of employment signed by the school committee or its designee and the superintendent designate that's that's the template language that we recommend mutual agreement of employment between Hamilton Wenham school committee and or its designee oh yeah between the school committee and so and so signed by the school committee or
263its destiny thinking about the start date for the to figure every two weeks would be approximately six thousand dollars what oh if you were thinking we're thinking about driving because your fiscally our fiscal year begins July one right so we want overlap so I'll be saying that we actually want wow right and do we if we want that the question is do we have the money to pay that's and that's what I'm asking like can we pay to people in the same fiscal year when it hasn't been budgeted right especially where that last forecast was yeah they come in on that box I know but but does it matter I have no idea no that the professional development money is it I'm sorry marbleheads spent their money and you can fiscal years you can set
264an earlier start date if you wanted to and just negotiate a uh retroactive usually when there's a transition sometimes the start date is July 1st yeah but the mutually agreeable contract of employment says you'll be half time for the month of June yeah so you could start on June 1st if you wanted to uh because until you negotiate an agreement you don't have anything although I don't know that she'd be available right that's what I was just thinking too but I mean this is part of the the pressure we have the language yeah you know that allows you to negotiate her to start yeah just however soon as possible Right yeah and this is a time when people need to act with Authority and confidence and extended discussions about minutia sometimes undermine the contract itself
265I'm not saying anything I'm not even on the negotiating group I'm not looking at anybody I'm just saying a guest star we let's push it to June and then try and negotiate from there can you have two superintendents appointed at the same time no yeah so there's the kicker so she would be appointed officially as of July 1st but we can negotiate to hire her at any point correct if you can actually Implement a Consulting agreement yeah right okay yeah there you go so it would be July 1st then okay I make a motion that we appoint Dr Julie kukenberger as superintendent of the Hamilton Wenham Regional School District starting July 1st 2019 subject to a successful mutual agreement of employment between Hamilton mutually agreeable Employment contract contract agreement between Hamilton Regional School District signed
266by the school committee or its designee and and superintendent designated and the superintendent designated second so we discuss it some more it's still early um all those a favor that's unanimous fantastic excellent I just want to say excellent work we have Glenn call her well usually the chair links yeah also thank all the candidates because they were oh it was this was this was torturous because they were all fantastic do we want to adjourn into executive sessions to talk about um at least a strategy or yeah I think so so where was The Learning on that um it's not a bad plan yeah is this on the air are we live we are the number we should be giving out no [Laughter] call her given Lindsey Graham's phone number so should we call her first
267or should we adjourn into executive session first do you see if she's willing to accept right still be driving still to be driving I mean you could even go to some place where yeah I will I just wanna yeah I mean if she's not too far away and she wants to come back she could also come back sometimes they look close what do you say when it was a beautiful Town come on Wyndham is a beautiful town so is Hamilton she's all right she is what oh fun thoughts we have not seen that which is our kids okay so I believe it's Carrie and David and Michelle Horrigan that are are negotiating group s I'm sorry that would be good because our superintendent's contract is very short and kind of strange and we obviously want
268to start with a contract that we're putting forward so that yeah model contract that we would suggest you never ever sign okay thank you but I do recommend that you be in touch with your and I'll tell you why because the superintendent's model contract has a provision that says the school committee will report to the superintendent any complaints brought to your attention now that's pretty hard to fulfill especially if parents want to come to you in confidence because they elected you and they have an unrestricted constitutional right to talk to you anytime they want petition your government for redress grievances that's you you're the government for schools so sometimes if things don't go well the superintendent says well you violated my contract so you're going to have to pay me out there were complaints and
269you never reported them to me so I'm just suggesting you want to use our model contract that that weighs heavily on the rights of the school committee as opposed to which might limit the rights of the school committee some superintendents want to make sure that you uh don't meet without their approval of the meeting time that you don't create subcommittees or hold subcommittee meetings without the approval of the superintendent or that you see some of your Authority or delegate more of your authority to the superintendent for example the state's Board of Elementary and secondary education has delegated a lot of its authority to the commissioner okay and we all know how wonderful that's been [Music] although we're very optimistic that the new commissioner is uh is demonstrating at least a strong measure of of respect
270for the work going on in districts and the work of school committees so you will um you're going to forward your model contract to Dave you know um do you have internet access machine yeah I could go to my office computer from here pull those documents down and get them that includes comparable salary information as well oh that's helpful which I which you can share with them okay okay thank you so um [Music] just got off the phone with Dr kukaberger and she's very excited to accept our offer I told her I'd know a little bit more for her after we met tonight about getting together um in you know discussing her contract and the possibility of coming in for a few days in June as well so um I guess at that point I've
271moved to adjourn to Executive session for purpose number two to Kentucky to conduct strategies session conduct a strategy session in preparation for negotiation with non-union Personnel or contract negotiations with known your personnel interim superintendent I'm sorry that reads a little funny um we need a roll call vote Peter are we not coming back into the session not to return to open session I'll second it Peter yes yes so David yes Michelle yes yes great great work everybody