001It's um, April 8th, 2026. Um, policies subcommittee meeting to order. Roll call. Mr. Dias. >> Here. Ms. Riley. Here. Ms. Stewart. Here. Salute to the flag. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting, or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unperceived by those present, and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Citizen's input, um, was told before the meeting we do not have any written input, and I do not see anyone here in the audience as a citizen. So, moving on
002to item three, discussion. 3-1, an update on the policy manual and the next steps. Um, before the meeting, um, I shared it with the administration. Hopefully I shared it with the subcommittee as well. Um, I know we had some conversation around the policy manual and getting that fully updated on the website. It's come to my attention that MASC actually offers, um, a service where they put your updated policies together, um, and they put it on their website, which could somehow we can have a conversation with IT. We can just, uh, transmit that and transmit that on our website. Something that we could consider. I thought we just sent them a link and they linked yours to that to theirs. >> Yes. And so, um, in my former district we had, it's almost like a professional
003development. They come and they work with you, yeah, and they show you the new MGL laws and they show you the new policies, and then they help you go through it, and they will update with you, and you can work back and forth with them. I did actually Jim Hardy. Um, they come in he comes in and then we he they'll send you the updated MGL and then we take it, we look it over, and then you send it back, and then they go back and forth. And they help with the IT? No. So, that that's what I So, our but I think our IT folks are working on on making this a little bit better accessible. I don't know if you've had a chance to even look at this page on our website. So,
004when you go to our website, you see a bunch of individual policies, but like the third or fourth one down is policy manual. And then you click on that and it's another 300 pages of So, our website is not organized in a fashion that makes it easy to use, um, but if you go to the that MASC site that you shared, you can see how other districts, like when you click on it, you see the sections, section A, and then you can click on each section and find a policy. You don't have to scroll >> It's a lot easier They're in the middle of working on that right now. Yes. So, IT is working on that, but they don't MASC won't do that part for you. They'll just help you with the Um, yeah, I
005mean I I think maybe, um, in the near future we can get an update on that, and then, um, I guess in just in general terms the next steps, we do have some policies, most of them were, um, referred out through the full committee um, before you arrived, um, um, deputy superintendent, and, um, so, I'm not sure if you had a chance to kind of get the the gist or the backup of what's going on here. Um, I guess this is worth just having a brief conversation on maybe some of your vision on what how you'd like to, um, proceed going forward after this meeting. If you >> If I may before you you jump in, um, one of the things that I had talked to Deb about just to help organize the policy subcommittee
006is you don't need to look at every policy every year. So, some of these though haven't been looked at in in a long time. So, a suggestion was to put them all on a spreadsheet organized by date, so that you then break them up over five years. So, let's say there are 100 policies, we break them up by five years and we start with the oldest ones first that haven't been looked at since whenever. But then we've chunked out for the year, and then when you get through the first cycle of five years, now you've looked at all of them. Now they're on a regular updated cycle. So, the first chunk of time takes a while to get through it. So, we'll be looking I know that some of these are like 2010, 2008. We
007haven't looked at them in a long time. So, that's just a way that I found easy to organize. Of course, I say that once Deb puts them all in a spreadsheet, but but once they're all in some kind of a spreadsheet by date, then then that makes it easy for us to chunk it out into And pick the ones that Yeah, so if there's 100 of them, we take 20 of them to do year one. If we get ahead of schedule, we can do more, you can do a few more, but typically there's enough in this pile. And some of them, to be honest with you, are things we could get rid of. Like as I looked through the manual, some of it's just the law. You don't have to reiterate the law in policy,
008and quite frankly, I think the more you can streamline policy for parents, the easier it is for them to find things and for things to be transparent. When you put 200 policies on a page, quite frankly, that's not transparency, cuz now parents are hunting and pecking for what they're looking like looking for, versus here are the important policies that aren't repeated somewhere else in law or whatever that they could just Google. But they are specific to Fall River and they need to know to be in the know. So, I think that's something when we go through them, I mean, I'm just ending finally a five-year cycle in my district, and what I found is we were able to reduce quite a few policies down because some of them were just literally this is the law
009on something. And I noticed some of ours are similar. So, I do think that we can organize our policies in a way that is accessible for parents, and once the website gets updated that are easy to access and find. But that's just a suggestion for how to break them up because I feel like right now we're kind of like throwing darts at some and just picking them here and there, and and there might be one something might happen in the world legislatively, cell phone policy, something that we might have to say, "Okay, we got to take this one out of order. We have to look at it today." >> That never came before policy subcommittee, by the way, but >> [laughter] >> But something like that, um, would we would pull I can give you
010an example. Our timeout policies that are new. They need to be updated because of the regulations that are coming down. So, we would pull those out of the cycle and look at those immediately. So, you don't have to like, "Oh, all we're going to do is what's on the list." If something comes up that has to be done, the superintendent, the team would bring it to us and say, "We've got to look at these. Something's going on right now. We have to address." So, I just throw that out there as a way to organize ourselves, not for any other reason. All right. No, I I fully agree with that. Um, And to comment, we do have a spreadsheet started, um, by date. Some of them I'm looking at are like '06, right? So, um, we
011just have not carved out all the ones from that large policy manual, which is 419 pages. That's what I'm saying. Nobody's going to hunt through 419 pages of policies. >> to carve out, but we can we'll continue My my one question when we're creating the the spreadsheet, are we going off the policy manual on the website? Um, so there are policies that are not in the manual, and then the ones in the manual as well. You know how there's some outside Yes. >> That that was okay. >> Both. Both, basically. I I feel like we obviously have to capture both. And they all should be in the manual, of course, and I'm sure we're going to work towards that. >> But I know, you know, to the point around you click on the manual and
012it brings you to a 420-page document PDF. Not You can't even like you have to scroll over to find everything. Madam Superintendent, do you have anything you'd like to I would just I think exactly what Anna did, um, in her in in her district as she's doing it now, we I did the same thing. You you go in, you look at the new policies, you look at the law. Allow your your school committee's association to do some of the groundwork for you and allow you do the like the grunt work, because we're not the only school district. We're what do you know, we're one of 250, you know, in in the commonwealth. And so, if we work with other school districts, you're going to see, you know, um, that the law, you know, oversees, you
013know, guides how we do it. And and whatever and I I think what, uh, Anna just said about what pertains to Fall River is what what our parents and what our community will go to first. Like what we know, what is a Fall River addendum or agenda item that I want to know about. Can I do this? Can I not do this? How does this work in our school district? That's really how I would I would put in. The [clears throat] only thing I just, um, wish that Anna and I fully agree with is using the issue and I I don't believe we'll have the issue with with with this committee. The issue in the past with using the MASC, committees in the past would just take the template language, adopt the template language without
014customizing anything. Sometimes it would just be taking the actual draft language and just placing it as policy, but if we're bringing in like the draft language and tweaking it to the best way can um, help, um, parents and and and children help us move forward, I think that's what we need to do. This is what I said. We just say that it's like everything else that we do in the school districts. We're very excited when we start, and then when you get to page 299, everybody's like, "Can somebody And and I think to to what Anna just said, let's stick with the important issues. Let's get the important policies up in front so the parents understand." I think that's what we do a lot, you know, and that's what, you know, we want to be
015a friendly enough where people can just look at our policies and "Oh, yeah, I get it now." All right, very good. So, just, just to wrap this up, and can just maybe just get an update as to where we are with the spreadsheet, and then that will help in the next next meeting in May, where we'll go from there and take it from there. All right, very good. Moving on to item 3-2. Discussion of both refer the school committee powers and duties policy and review and refer recommended changes through the job description. So, with this item here, and we I believe this is an item that we tabled from the last meeting. I don't believe we referred this one. We discussed two items. We asked the former administration at the time to reach out to
016MASC to just get some language around what we can look at with personnel at the time. There was just some discussion around um if we're evaluating the superintendent and using decisions that the superintendent makes in an evaluation purpose, um what what would the committee have purview to? And so, we just want to get some MASC guidance around that. Mr. Repucci, do you know if this if it was I'm not sure if we've gotten that yet. I don't think so. Yeah. So, if we can maybe just just just look into that. I think by the time >> it was 2022. I don't know if that much has changed, but as an example as an example was if you look down the bottom, they didn't even remove the note that literally is like you're supposed to take
017that off when when you copy it cuz this says if you're a regional, don't forget to add blah blah blah. Well, we don't need that, and that So, this was clearly like a copy-paste, which is fine because I I'm guessing 2022. I don't think the laws changed much in what our duties and powers are. So, I'm guessing MASC is going to say it's the same, but when we redo it, if we could Just edit it. get rid of that note there, and I'll just say something else, Deb, and I'm sorry. I always feel like everything I recommend is just going to make more Deb work. So, we have to find a way to take some Deb work off Deb so Deb can do some of this Deb work. But as we review these, can you
018put them into the same format? Same type and font [snorts] and titling look the same cuz they Yep. Um and just so the committee knows, like so the first page is what we actually have like that one that you have through um not that one, the other one. Like This. This. That. That's currently what we have like in Boardocs, which is actually going to be switched over to Diligent. We're working on working with Diligent to get that set up in Diligent. That other page, that's a Word document. This one here. So, I'm Which one is the one that it looks like? That is So, right now they all look like this in Boardocs. But when we >> With this whole weird thing here? That's in Boardocs, yeah. But where this here is a is right
019off MASC, so I just put both so we could compare. That's a Word document. And that way if there was any changes or anything that needed to be um made, we could just make it on that. But formatting would be one of the things that we're trying to get consistent. >> Diligent? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay, good. That's better than you having to do it. They can format right in Diligent. That will save a lot of uh Yeah, because they the first thing that they asked is that we downloaded all our policies in Word, so that way if we had to So, that when we adopt something, you we just pull it out and put a new one in. Perfect. Yeah. Question for the committee, um in terms I know that was one topic we
020were discussing like the MA the the guidance on the personnel. Second, for clarification's sake, we oversee a superintendent. We also oversee a an attorney school committee attorney. We also have an administrative assistant. Adding that into the policy, if you ask me as one member, it would just make sense for clarification's sake. Um what's the committee think on that? So, in here it states administrative assistant. So, what is the recommended addition? Where does it say administrative assistant? Right on this one. >> it right there. Administrative assistant. It's the second paragraph. Right, it says it shall not report directly to the school committee. I believe it should. If you as one member, under personnel matters, so BBA. I'm looking at this one I know I don't have BBA for some reason. I have that same one that
021Liz has. Oh, yeah, same language. Same language. Because I have Does it shall >> all these positions to report to the school committee. Administrative assistant to school committee service. They report to the school committee. Who does? The administrative assistant. and the attorney. directly to the school committee. Is that's what it says? Yes, that's what I would have the person do. Yeah, so this copy from MASC does not include administrative assistant. >> ours did, I believe here. Yes. Yeah. So, her contract does not say that she does trust. Yeah. In the job description, it has to the superintendent. Right. So, that's what I think needs to come out of this. I think we need to follow how what MASC has, which doesn't include that because typically the assistant to the school committee reports to the school
022committee. So, that that needs to be struck from this Fall River policy. And um I know it's a separate policy, which we'll be discussing next. Um the school committee attorney, should that be mentioned [clears throat] in here specifically? >> No, because these are only positions that that don't report to us other than the superintendent. These are In this one in this BBA, these are all positions that we appoint upon the recommendation of the superintendent. So, the superintendent says to us, um this is the school business administrator that I'd like to hire. We have to reasonably approve whatever the superintendent recommends unless as a committee we say, "Oh, no, that person we you know, we got a reference check from another school committee, blah blah blah. Can you please take that back?" We still don't get
023to pick who it is. The superintendent chooses who that person is. They make a recommendation. We approve or disapprove their their recommendation, but they report and they are chosen by the superintendent. That's different why it's not in here and why it's not in the MASC one is because typically the school committee secretary reports directly to the school committee as does the school committee attorney report directly to the school committee. That's why those aren't in here. These are only positions that report directly to the superintendent. So, that's why at some point somebody added administrative assistant, so that's the >> That happened when Deb came on because before Deb, prior I prior to me being hired, um it was, and then I guess it was the job it was part of the job description. It was changed
024that um the um superintendent of schools would be doing the evaluation and everything. >> That's what it says in the book. In consultation with the school committee. I think just with the job description, that's something we should look at at the full committee level. Um one before I think I understand where the subcommittee wants to go. Just one question on the school nurse position, and I don't need an answer right now, but um ESY is then the school year. If there's um a nursing position that opens up in the summer, is that a separate position, nursing position? Those are usually just temporary hourly jobs. You don't hire someone like who's also your ESY person, like works year round, right? You don't hire for ESY. >> You hire them. They're part of our ESY hiring. So,
025that could be anybody. It doesn't even have Sometimes the nurses in your district don't want to work ESY, and you have to just hire someone for ESY. Yeah, our nurses typically do apply, and again >> That's good. you know. Yeah. So, an ESY nurse position, that wouldn't be something we would approve separately as a committee. >> Yeah, no. Okay. No, those are part-time temporary jobs. That's not a So, um >> even a I always thought this was a weird piece of the law that school committees would approve school nurses. It's odd. Yeah. But it's the law, so. So, I'll entertain a motion to refer this policy to the full committee with the change that we strike out >> wants to say match the MASC one. That's the only difference. >> that matches the MASC policies.
026Can I also add that we review at a cuz I don't think we should do it here, we should do it at the full committee, that we review the job description and the contract. Well, is the contract up? Like we're not going to review it mid-contract. When is the end of your contract, Deb? Do you know? I'm sorry, you're in the room. That's why we're asking you. Do you know when your end date is? Well, I mean my contract expired last year, so Oh, excellent. [laughter] So, yeah, we should probably put that on an agenda to look at. Well, thank you for showing up to work today, and >> [laughter] >> appreciate you. Yeah. When you When we redo this one, can you take this note off here, please? Thank you. So, I'm referred to
027the full committee that matches MASC policy, and we also review the administrative assistant, the job description, and the contract. Do we need to look at the job description? Are you worried about something in there? No, it's just I think that's part of it. It says it right in the job description, well I got you. Okay, so we got to clean it as one should, Deb. Okay. Motion so made. Is there a second? Second. Okay. you. All those in favor say I. I. All those opposed, motion passes. Okay. 3-3 is a discussion and a vote to refer school committee policy BDG and all legal contracts and tablements with attorneys of law to review and refer recommended changes to all the job descriptions. So, put my backup for this here. Just few things I just want to
028point out in this policy. So, I think the wording itself should be revamped. The city solicitor is corporation counsel and we have an attorney to the school committee. So, the wording around there is something we should look at. Um there's language in here which states that um the school committee the attorney shall report to all meetings upon request. Is that regular meetings? Is that subcommittee meetings? I requested attorney's thought to be here just to back up his um legal opinions that he gave us today. Um I'm not sure I don't believe he was able to make it. However, I think that's something just just to point out there. Um And this policy also states that legal advice on behalf of the school system will be made by the committee. I don't think that's something that
029we even we even do. I I mean most legal advice we receive isn't by vote of the committee currently. So, either we have to talk about enforcement. Which one are you talking about? The 1 2 3 fourth paragraph. The new policy here says many types of legal assistance are routine and do not require specific That's the last paragraph on this one. So, they're a little um they kind of contradict contradict each other a bit. Um and then there's a discussion what it what amounts to routine legal services. Um before we get into that, I I think we all know that um outside legal there's um a lot of different departments that use outside legal for different reasons um and for many valid purposes as well. I I did invite as chair of the subcommittee all
030the departments that are um that use outside legal to explain their procedures so the subcommittee could be informed and um Miss Oberchain um was took the step accepted the invitation was here today just to explain um how um her department uses outside legal. So, typically um the special education department uses um Attorney Joyce's office for student specific um situations related to IEP process, procedures, faith, all those, you know, um regulations. The protocol within my department is that the anyone at a school level does not the attorneys without consultation from a supervisor and the supervisor informs me. Most of the time the communication is either myself or Mr. Sullivan, our chief compliance officer, with a supervisor or if it's not directly at the same time with the supervisor, we are always kept in the loop. So,
031there aren't situations that come up with students related to special education that I am not aware of that Mr. Joyce's office is handling. What I will say is that we have a lot of um uh legal services in Fall River that work with our families. Sometimes they directly reach out to uh Attorney Joyce's office because they know that he's our attorney. But on more than one occasion uh Michael Joyce or another attorney in his firm will send it to me and say, "Lori, you know, this is we received this from this counsel. Do you want us involved?" And most of the time we don't need them involved. Um again, we utilize Michael Joyce and his colleagues because they are very knowledgeable of the due process piece, the faith piece, and they help us to come
032to some resolutions without having to go to um the BSEA to get things resolved. So, in my department the protocol is no one on a school base at a school base level is making that call without consultation from the supervisor, the supervisor to me. Once it's all approved, a team chair might send um Attorney Joyce an email about the scheduling of the meeting, right? They schedule the meetings, but it's never to seek legal advice. Right, but even if like they send something they review it, they're um they're billing by it by the hour for every action they take. They could be thinking about something and and billing you something. Um they do take they do charge us to review a file. If we send them a file, it it I mean our special education files
033some of them are very thick um and very, you know, cumbersome. So, yes. But the other piece that Attorney Joyce's office does for us, which again is just the way Fall River has always done it here, what I'm told. Let me know if Mr. Repucci has something different. Title nine, we use Attorney Joyce's office a lot for title nine um situations. And then discipline, bullying, those types of um more difficult that that fall under Dr. Bronhard, those are the ones that again she um And Dr. Bronhard would have her own budget for those or that or that that I don't know I did not see that. That was one of my questions. So, in our budget didn't look as if it was broken out in any way, but typically you would see a breakout. So,
034If I can interject, I apologize. I did um see it in the budget. I I I did ask for this meeting I did in many weeks in advance ask for that specific information. So, maybe we can follow back up and get the from the business office get the the um breakdown. I didn't see it. You asked [clears throat] for a breakdown, but there wasn't a lot in the budget. It was not broken down by line item is is what kind of what I'm getting after, which is what typically does happen in the budget is we would see, for example, in the budget line item there are typically I think only three legal line items. You would see um general legal, you would see special education legal, and you would see negotiations {slash} litigations sometimes. So,
035those are three typical cost centers that are in the chart of accounts for legal services. I noticed in our budget I didn't see that. I I don't know why they don't break it out that way. It seems to be kind of in all different places, something that you might want to take a look at. >> meeting I'm actually meeting um with Kevin tomorrow. Okay. I believe it's tomorrow for an hour and then on Friday again. And that's one of the things that, you know, I I I saw it myself and we talked about it. I actually had a cabinet meeting today um and I brought that up to um Kevin about you can't put it in a, you know, not a bucket. It's got to be it's got to be in a line item so
036that we actually know where it's coming from so that when we do the end of the year audit we actually comes from the right place at the right time so that each one of our departments knows how much they're going down and the superintendent, of course, on negotiations, litigation, um general. Mhm. You know, and there usually are two uh there's usually the school committee's attorney, which is would be the the attorney I would call if I had a question cuz it we sometimes forget that they they really represent the school committee when we're working with them cuz we work so closely with the superintendent. Then we usually always we try to defer to student issues and special education law with a different law firm. That's why we do that. Now, you can um uh uh
037from the school committee's purview you could probably at some some district or some law firms will say a retainer for the year. Some will offer uh the first 15-minute phone call is free and then anything after 15 minutes they charge by. Um some will say all telephone calls are free. You know, so um it's your parameters. I don't know when the last time I saw that you asked for contracts and I think what we got was like a personnel contract, but typically what I'm used to is we would go out to bid. So, we would bid for those parameters that Liz has mentioned. We would say, "We would like a school committee attorney who would attend meetings." Like they would ask for an So, like I don't have someone who has a contract for X
038number of dollars. I was going to ask I was just actually going to ask you right now, do you use an outside firm or do you have a person for an attorney? So, we have a firm for an attorney. Our our attorney happens to also specialize in special ed. So, we have one firm who does everything for us, but that's not typical. Like when I was in Massachusetts I had two. Someone did special ed, someone did school committee. Yeah, it's it's often times they specialize in one or the other. But typically a school committee attorney is like an hourly rate. So, we don't need someone full time or even half time. We need someone for meetings and then when the school committee has a question or the superintendent has a question for us about policy
039or a hire or something. And so then they would bill us at the rate we've agreed to in our contract. That I think would save a tremendous amount of money because when you just pay someone a salary and we talked about this for HR as an option because you you seem to have a lot of investigations here for HR that it almost would make sense to hire our own attorney to do that and let the school committee attorney be the person who just does our meetings, answers the questions about school committee and superintendent. That would be a lot more cost-effective than hiring someone. >> thinking I was I was really thinking the same thing coming into here and maybe we should um look at a firm to handle multiple different items and and before um
040Miss La Colt >> there that does everything. No, but I mean if it's one or two like you said. I before Miss La Colt joined I know we um discussed placing um having the district have their own attorney as well to help your office out. If um I I I think this is within the scope to ask about it. The um line item that we placed for HR looking to hire maybe an attorney for that or So the it's currently in investigations, right? Is that what it looks like? >> Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean We have a um tomorrow a meeting with interim HR interim HR. Uh this person does have their JD. I'll assume that this person wants to be an interim. I am speaking >> [laughter] >> to that tomorrow. >> have
041to keep hunting for someone in mind that will >> gives me it gives us some time to >> Yeah. That's good. Um I think that um Brian has met with her or Brian has met with the person. The person will come to me tomorrow. I've asked to meet with her. >> Awesome. And then I will probably um move to recommend to appoint and then or I will appoint and then uh we'll go from there and then um Now as I knew that this was going to come up in these meetings going forward so now I can hear it and I can talk to the Superintendent Smith and let her know the thoughts of and uh that what the committee would like so that I can go in that direction and say this is what they
042are looking for. Can we post it and go in that direction as you just said. Looking for. That could be one of the what you want. >> a cost savings as well. We have an attorney attorney inside that can help your office out with those questions. And maybe it can hit take some of the not not necessarily special ed but it could take some of the maybe title nine or things off off of those books. That'll be extreme a great cost savings to the district. So I think it's >> uh records >> public records requests. Or requests for redacting. One thing Michael Joyce does Michael Joyce's office does they break down. Like you can see if it's uh redaction of records, if it's a student with special education, if it's title nine. I do think
043if we're going to change kind of the protocol of that too. I approve at least I initial the invoice for Michael Joyce. Not just for special ed at all. Oh yeah, that should be broken out by >> So I love because I don't know >> Yeah. Yeah, because I see I go through all of the special ed ones but there's other things on there and it will say superintendent, assistant superintendent. >> So those folks should be initialing those because you know and and I mean let's face it our attorneys are the people we probably trust the most. So you're really just checking to make sure did we do this this month or this is special ed but this is really assistant su just But again, since we don't have broken out line items it probably
044doesn't matter right now but if we break out the line items the way they're supposed to you wouldn't charge anything but special ed to the special ed line so that you would only be signing off on those and checking to make sure yep, this is all the special ed stuff that goes to the special ed line. Everything else would be the superintendent's office going okay, this is normal stuff this goes on our bill and then this is negotiations this goes in this. So those cost centers are really how we should be reporting out so that's probably just something we have to fix and then who signs off goes to whoever is responsible for that line item. So I guess the next question if we um And it it sounds like whatever we do if we
045hypothetically as a committee choose to hire a law firm that not this policy isn't here but future policy we would need a negotiator. Would um do law firms usually handle negotiations they work on? >> I mean the school committee attorney typically does is the person who does negotiations but negotiations isn't typically every year at least it's not every union every year. So again, that's a different line item. So we would look and say okay, next year we have the teachers. We know that's going to take a lot of hours in that budget line item we need to put more money because we know we have teacher nego on a year we would where we might have a couple of small unions we might say okay, we don't have to put it. It's really about how
046much we're budgeting in those line items. Not necessarily who does what. It's making sure that we have enough of the funding so that I think this policy is probably fine as is. It'll be when we go out to bid or post for a new attorney but this doesn't say anything I don't think that contradicts what what we just talked about. I think some of the language should be updated in terms of we don't have a city solicitor. Um it like that's the first line it says that may use service provided by city solicitor. School committee may seek advice >> of the of the city attorney? Corporation counsel. >> So that just has to change to corporation counsel. Is it city corporation counsel? It's just corporation counsel. Corporation counsel we see That's just the next page.
047That's a I have one question. Right there. So is this the MASC the MASC model policy? This one has a lot of differences versus that. It's interesting. Yeah, I mean I think it's a same No, I yeah, I mean Although because that's what they were saying even on this other one it said may. You know what I'm saying? What we were talking about before. Just because there was a couple Maybe we should just adopt the model policy. There is a model policy as well for the MASC >> This this is the most updated. It says 2022. Again, get rid of the note down the bottom before we adopt it. But I think this is the one we should adopt the updated one. >> Yes, true. Um Should we also recommend to the full committee that
048we go out to bid for >> idea. Is that Is there a contract that's up? >> There either yes, there is a contract and it should be in the back up. >> Okay. Uh at least I see a job description. >> Oh, maybe it's not in the back up. I believe attorney Assad's You just only asked for the HR job description. Attorneys I did ask for in the past. Attorney Assad's um contract is up this upcoming year this June. In June, I believe. Okay. So that's something we could go out to bid for. Okay. So um I'll It would we use a job this so we have a job description. Typically when you go out to bid it's not a job description. You just go out to bid saying we're looking for an attorney who
049can be the school committee attorney, do negotiations and arbitrations. Yeah, and then we would say, you know, I mean you don't have to go with lowest bid for an attorney. You can interview and choose legal as one of those exempt things but this would we would get some bids from some from whoever was interested. Could be attorney Assad, whoever it would be and then we would review the bids and then make a recommendation from the bids. I just don't think we need someone on a salary who's got here regular time. I I think we need someone for meetings and for I agree. It sounds like right now Michael Joyce is handling most of the other things so Yeah, yeah. So just feels like we have a little bit too much crossover. No, I agree. Yeah,
050I think I think the administration is going to look into this thoroughly the issue of um splitting up the money and we'll we'll get something settled on that. Maybe we can get something hopefully before we pass the budget we can break down the budget line items a little better. And all of our bargaining units are on the same schedule. Um so >> So does that mean that you have a couple of off years? We start in the fall again cuz it took us a while. So I believe it's I believe it starts in October. I believe >> Okay, that's on your Please fix that. Let's stagger them. But it's all yeah, I believe it's all the same time. 2027. I will I'll make a motion that we refer to the full committee we adopt the
051model policy um and that we recommend that we go out to bid for Well, that doesn't Remember it's only April, right? So what's the timeline for for bids here? Do we know what that is? I do not know. Do Do we I I'm just wondering if if this is a little bit of homework for the deputy to figure out what the process is to go out to bid before >> [clears throat] >> I mean it could be ready for the next meeting cuz our next meeting is not till May, right? >> Yes, correct. I mean if we we can if the the administration is already we can recommend it. >> make a placeholder as a recommendation to go out to bid and then see how long it takes to bid here. I feel like there's
052a lot of bidding rules here. I'll look. Please. So I'll make So um make that motion we um approve the model policy and we um recommend that we go out to bid as a placeholder subject to the administration looking into the issue. Motion is so made. Is there a second? Second. All those in favor say I. I. All those opposed. Um just quickly on this if And again, this I guess could be for the full committee. This hasn't been adopted since 2010. If we ended up if we end up keeping a personal individual I was 10 years old when this was >> for a new one. Maybe we can find an updated bid document from another district we could Oh yeah. If And again, maybe we'll have a firm. >> Yeah, yeah. Um Okay. Also
053so 3-3 moving on to The AA. 3-4 discussion votes to refer evaluation of school committee operational procedure policy BAA. And when I took a look at this, um, I personally think we should keep it as is. I think we should have policies in place where we review our operational structures every years and have certain goals to improve. Um This might That's just my opinion as one member, but I think we should save that. I know you've only been on a year and a half, but does the school committee have a self-evaluation tool? We I'm not that I'm aware of now. Is there a historical self-evaluation tool for the school committee? Cuz this says we're going to set goals and evaluate ourselves. But it doesn't look like we have a tool to evaluate ourselves on annual
054basis. We don't have value. This is about us evaluating ourselves. So, do you Do you want to keep this on our next agenda and I can bring you some samples and maybe we can look at them and recommend one to the full committee? Sure. And you think, um, you think it would be within your purview as the evaluation If you want to refer it to evaluation subcommittee, I can have that committee work on an self-eval for the school committee. Sure. I think that I think that would be appropriate. So, um I'll make a motion we we refer the policies to full committee as is and we request the evaluation subcommittee, um, review certain, um, rubrics for the school committee. >> Sounds good. Motion so made. Second. >> [clears throat] >> Second. All those in favor,
055say I. I. All those opposed. Okay. Um, 3-5 is a discussion and vote to refer new school committee member orientation policy. I don't know if this is something that should be a separate policy or if this is something that should be within here. Um My thoughts were and and the new superintendent, um, Miss um Superintendent Smith mentioned this in her opening remarks that we need, um retreats, we need professional development as a committee. So, maybe expanding this to include, um, some sort of, um, I know I believe we approved the training budget as well. Maybe some language in here around, um, trainings, yearly trainings for members of the committee, for the chair. I think would be appropriate either in this or as a separate, um um, policy. That's my opinion. [snorts] But I think the
056policy here is fine. It's just really expanding it. Whatever the committee's thoughts are to that. I mean, I don't think it's I think we Did we already talk about a policy where we put in that we had to do training or did we just vote on that? >> just voted on it. For all of us to go over it. This would be helpful, I would say, if they were live links. So, as a new member, it would have been nice to go to this policy and just click on, "Oh, let me look at the policy manual. Oh, let me review the open meeting laws." So, rather than say a copy of and W you having to send us a copy of things, if these were live links, you could get rid of copy and just
057say, you know, click here for our school committee policy manual. Click here for the open meeting law. And then a new member could just take this and and look it up themselves versus I know we got all of this, but we got it from you. You emailed it to to us, but rather than you having to do that every time there's new members, you could just send them this and they could click on the links themselves and get all of that. I'm just I'm just thinking that's a time saver that you don't have to do all that and then members can just be referred to this. Um Now, I I guess I'll say this is speaking as I may be you all can comment on this. The second part of this policy talks about the
058chair and or superintendent shall also clarify policy around visit all this information. I don't know if that happened. Didn't happen for me. Say it again. So, the chair The chair and or superintendent shall also clarify policy arranging visits, um, to schools, um, requesting information regarding school district operations, responding to community requests, uh, handling confidential information. Um, maybe we should just keep it as is and I'm I'm just hopeful just be followed going forward is I guess it's more I say keep it as is. Yeah, but I think it would be helpful if that happens. Correct. Um, is there any model policy that we have or just is I I think this was reviewed in 20 Yeah, this one's 2022. Yeah, both of them. Is this Is this this policy we currently have? It's the same
059though. That That's the >> There's this one from 2017, but it looks the same. Yeah. It's pretty It's pretty much Yeah, it's pretty much the same. Yeah. >> All right. So, if it's tweaks in language, I'll make a motion we refer the model policy for BIA. >> With live links. With live links. With live links. Motion so made. Second. Second. All those in favor, say I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes. All right. So, 3-6 is, um, school committee officers policy. Going to just, um state my my frustration, to be honest, that we receive, um, policy We receive, um legal opinions the day of a meeting, which are requested by our attorney weeks on end. And going back to our previous policy, we can request corporation counsel's opinion or our city solicitor says, but that's
060that's the corporation counsel. I'm annoyed as one member. We have corporation counsel come at random to meetings which he is not invited to. If we're going to use corporation counsel, it should be invited by the committee. It shouldn't be one member of the committee inviting the corporation counsel to come and give whatever opinion they want. I think there needs to be policy I think the policies in place state that the previous policy that we followed. So, that just needs to be, um reinforced. I think just going through this, I don't know if the committee sub members of the committee had time to review the opinions. If we wanted even take like a brief 5-minute recess just for everyone to review, that's fine with me. Whatever we want to do. I think it I think we'll
061take a brief 5-minute recess. We're going to take a brief 5-minute recess. Okay, thank you. We had time to review the, um, proposed policies, um, recommendations by attorney Sud. This is for Which one do we have first? >> BDB. BDB. Um I I as one member, um, just have further questions on that and hopefully we can get answers through our attorney. So, I'll make a motion the table BDB. Second. BDB. All those in favor, say I. I. All those opposed. Um Next item is school committee member authority policy. Um, this came before the committee before. It was came before the sub committee. We referred it to the full committee and we just referred referred it back to us. Um, I think there were just some minor touch-ups. I I think everything in the in this
062opinion, um, matches. So, I'll make a motion we refer BBAA to the full committee with the, um, opinions of, um, that were provided here. So, Deb, for your purposes, cross out the two top red things with we we're not going to do those. But we can keep the other edits according to the legal opinion. So, the two top ones go, the bottom ones go. So, I'll second that motion. The second one was to retain the will be settled. I don't know if that matters, but the >> thought you said that one was not was a no. Is that a yes we could keep that? Yeah, it says, um, the proposal was to delete it. The opinion was retain the current language. Then we can keep that. So, keep that. Yes, I'm adopt I'm adopt whatever
063Basically, I was saying whatever was proposed to be changed, we Yes, the legal language and whatever you said we could we could keep, we'll keep. Perfect. Thank you. All those in favor, I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes. All right. Next item is a discussion and vote to refer fraternization policy and staff to student conduct policy. Um, had a brief email with the new deputy superintendent before. Um, if you have anything you would like to I don't know, maybe I had I talked to um Is there anything, um, that the administration might have on this? Go for it. Go for it. Um I agree with you. That there should be no fraternization with a student and a staff member. Um Like I looked over this policy from MASC. I looked over some of the the
064other policies from other districts. And some of the I thought it was clear. I mean Is there I thought it was very clear. I I I I was hoping that it was a fraternization which was based on staff and student. I wasn't sure if you were moving towards I guess I believe there was a referral This this wasn't one that was from myself or from any one member. I believe this was um a few members not even on this committee that would like to see both um leave it to the sub committee where they would like to go. Me as one member personally, I believe there should be a both a I mean different language, of course, one for specified for students and staff and one for staff to staff. I would say in my
065position that if you are uh somebody's director or principal and you're an evaluator that's it would be unprofessional conduct. You can't evaluate somebody that you're having a relationship with or in the same building. We find like in large districts there are sometimes that are people that are married. >> Mhm. That you know, one teaches in one building, one teaches in another, maybe one's a principal in one building, one's so that but needs to be very clear of how that works. Um that would if you want to spell something like that out, I think that that can be spelled out that you you can't be a spouse in the same building. Um you know, we do Some in in that in that regard, I think if that's what you're looking for, I don't want to get
066so specific. I don't think you don't want to I you don't want to box yourself in. But it's very difficult to be in the same building, I think. And I do think um it's and it's happened that you're that uh a principal is evaluating and that's something that we can't have. I I I guess I would I would ask um and I and I agree with you. We don't want to we don't want to um prohibit staff from doing absolutely We we don't want to we don't want to exchange staff. I I don't think that's the goal of the committee and I don't think that's the goal of it. But um I guess in terms of um an evaluator evaluating someone more than just being a spouse. There's any sort of um Yeah, this is
067not our So if you if did you have a chance to read this advisory? So this came from the previous This one right here. Yeah, and I I I agree with you. There are professional standards and I think what this committee previously was looking for was to codify in some kind of formal policy. Like this is the this is what's acceptable and this is what's not. I think some of this goes a little too far. >> what I was afraid of. >> Yeah, some of it because I mean I was the principal of Talbot many moons ago but we were still a young teacher. >> And we had I think three couples that got teachers who got engaged and were married and are still married today. You know, I I don't think that's a bad
068thing and I think it happens naturally in a workplace but we don't want are some of the things that that Liz was just talking about. We don't want a principal having a relationship with a teacher. That person has power over that person. They evaluate them. They're in a position of control. That's not appropriate behavior. So perhaps you and the superintendent could take a shot at creating a policy that addresses what we're worried about which is we want to see professional conduct. Supervisors should not engage in those kind of um relationships or initiate or or I don't know. Whatever you think might be a but it seems like the old committee was very worried about this and I'm guessing from the read is there must have been circumstances under which this >> I didn't want to
069get really the conversation. I almost felt it was directed towards a situation that probably >> Let's be a little bit more specific. >> more than just a situation but I I think um this is just to add. I think and I believe the committee was [snorts] primarily focused on staff to student um which I think um should go much further than staff to staff. I think um something we should also consider if we're drafting a policy is I think there's more multiple ways you can have influence over someone. If you're if a certain department has like um a party, what are the gifts? I mean there's um laws on the books around gift giving. You can't give a gift over $50. Um Yeah, things things like that. I think we could I think could be
070addressed in some way or another um but again, without having to go into too much detail. >> That should be an ethics that's a policy. That's an ethics policy. And that's actually the law. That's the >> We all have to take the training and we all have to sign off on that. We've taken the training and it that speaks to >> like receiving a gift. >> Yeah, so it looks like Liz, we need um we've got a bunch of policies here. We've got a dentistry arm. We've got Manchester. We've got a bunch. Can you work to craft one on the student and then a an adult one also? If we could have those two >> Sure. drafts for our next policy rather than us trying to make we don't have time to write one right
071now about from these samples. But if you could put one together for us um I think that would be really helpful. Yeah, I think that to your point everyone's point that these are our students. We have to remember that. >> And I think that Anna would say that she probably does it in her district and I'm I'm sure that the superintendent will do it in our district that when we address staff at the beginning of the school year, middle of the school year, 67 times during the school year that you know, we always say you know, you don't get your cell phone out, you don't do this, you don't call a student at their home or or text a student or you don't give those sort of things. I think those things need to be
072spelled out in today's day and age. Agreed. Um we don't need to box people in. Um but we try I mean look at all the the apps that we provide for our teachers so that they can um communicate with their classes or a coach. >> Mhm. The new app >> is the appropriate way for staff to communicate with >> That's right. And I say the same thing and and I'm sure that especially in the city because a lot of parents we are their advocates so they want to talk to that teacher especially um soon as they have an IEP. We still have to use the appropriate Student information system has an email system that some staff use. You know, having a child in the district, I know that different teachers use different modes. Some use
073Parent Square, some do it right through the um student information system. Those yeah, those are those are the appropriate ways but perhaps that could be spelled out in writing so when someone doesn't do it, we have a policy that >> Right. in place. >> Right. And I as you know, you don't want to box people in but I think in today's day and age it and we would say I know that Anna would say this too. It's more to protect your staff. We want to protect the student. We want to protect the parent but we also want to protect the staff. Because there will be teachers or there will be people that will not teachers. There will be a parent or grandparent who finds uh your email might be on a Facebook page and they
074find your Facebook page, your email is there and then they email you and say oh my daughter's in your third period class. Is there any way you can call me at this number? And they private message you. That comes up a lot and we have to just make sure that we're very >> Oh, of course. I don't think we want to like No, but no no no, but that's we need to spell that out at times for everybody so we to protect everyone. >> Everyone. Um when you get to the Just so you Just so you're aware, I don't mean to interrupt. We did the committee did recently pass a social media policy. >> That addresses some of those things. >> it does. But if you're going to do it, it should be very thorough
075in that one. This the the staff conduct again, we don't want I with staff other staff. I think that to Anna's point uh when we talk about a subordinate that's that's the level that I'm seeing and I I agree your point of in a workplace you're going to you know, you're working with somebody or down the hall and then you're having lunch and then >> [laughter] >> after school and then the next day it's what you want to do that. And it happens that you know, you you have I hire kids. I guess I'm old now. But you know, you bring a 22-year-old teacher graduating from UMass or wherever and they're young and there's other young teachers there, you know, so but there has to be a time and place. Of course. And we don't
076want to box people in but we do want to make sure appropriate conduct. Right. Fraternization happens after hours. >> That's right. Not during school hours. You can date the teacher across the hall but not during the school day. Dates are after hours. So that's the kind So it doesn't it doesn't feel like this is a policy language. It's more of a narrative of what we want to see happen. So if you could put together some policy. >> I want to say something but I'm not sure if I can say it. I want to tell you what I think but I don't want to say just very clear. This is how what we're going to do A B C and D. Yep. Perfect. >> No, I'm very hopeful we'll have some good policies going forward. Yeah,
077I'll make a motion table 3-8. Well, can we can we Can we instead of tabling, can we refer that to the superintendent and deputy to bring us a a draft policy to the next meeting? >> Right. Yeah, yeah, we we can motion we can word it that way. Make a motion to refer to the administration to come back at next meeting. Draft policy. Second. Second. All those in favor? I I. All those opposed? So I believe we are at the last item for discussion. Um 3-9 um meant for this to actually just be an update, not even a discussion vote to refer. Just a public records request and policy and um just something I know the I I think it's important that and we had the conversation before. Just trying to streamline any public records
078request. Um but again, some should may have to go through special ed, but even if it's a request for information, special ed dollars should go to helping those students. Um, I think either if we can just get an update at some point. I know a few members were curious about this. It's just um either we have an attorney, the attorney position that we recommended that can that can handle this, or maybe at that a point we had a discussion today. We have a firm, the firm can handle the request, take the um the load off of again, take again, our clerk doesn't have to focus on the records request at one, and secondly, and again, if these attorneys get billed by the hour, so if someone submits an appeal, and I know there's a few
079from including myself, just a few different appeals that were submitted to supervisor records, um, company, the um Michael Joyce has to respond. Those those are those again, that's being billed by the hour, and I don't think um >> [snorts] >> that's that's good, especially when you have someone in house that can handle that. I just just wanted really just put it on just wanted just to have a quick discussion on it as this is an update. I don't know if you have any opinion on >> on public records requests? I We actually I believe we have um a policy. I should have um We can maybe have a discussion in the future. We have um >> put our opinions kind of put our opinions on or on if there's a policy where we can address
080that. I just I'm looking for a policy that's about that. >> Section K. I believe in section There's um I mean I mean record I mean we could adopt a policy maybe um I I know there's it could be section K. I guess maybe we maybe we can come back to this um I do know there are some policies around um like you can go and like um and like look at the budget and look at certain um financial documentation. Um, I think we need to make it easier for members of the committee to request information as well. I I think with a new administration, I think we'll we'll be fine in that regard, but it's been an issue in the past. >> in times of in the past that had a FOIA request, myself,
081um, my assistant would go through meeting notes, or if there was uh you know, if it was a discipline a Sure. in that in that regard, or progressive discipline. >> Sure. And we get a request for a request for the meeting notes, we would go through, you're redacting names, you're redacting whatever it could be, something that was a private information, or something that would could distinguish you from me in in a in in a document. We would do that, and then we would um at times send it to the attorney. After we have already lined it, and after we had already did most of the redaction, so it's a very quick movement of theirs to go through. Because we know we can't you know, you're not putting out someone's name, and you're not putting If
082someone is FOIA-ing, they already know what they're looking for, and they already know the name, and they already know what's happening. They're just looking to see Yeah. you know, what are some of the things that were said in that meeting. So, we do a lot I well, I have done a lot of that. I used to do a lot of that. I don't know if they're going to do the same. We we redact, and we do it, and then we send it just to make sure it's proofed Sometimes, and sometimes it's just what you can do it yourself. You don't need to send it to an attorney. I I do a lot myself. >> I do a lot myself, and I guess that's what we look at job descriptions. That should not be on in
083Jeb's job description. You have enough with all of our stuff. But that is something that's typically sits with the superintendent's secretary, because the superintendent themselves, as you mentioned, you did it, I do it. I do it all the time. If there's something that feels like it could be legal issue, or I'm not sure about something, I will send it to an attorney, but that's like far and few between. Most of the time the public record requests my secretary does. She sends it to me for review, and then it's good to go, and it goes out. That makes it I mean, there's 10 days, so you have time if you need to, but that is not something that should be regularly going to an attorney. Again, that's costing us money every time we do that. And
084I I that's why I'm saying I I've never seen that, because we do it in the office. Okay. So, just you know, to send it out I like we we would I would say that uh Superintendent Smith, um she would want to see the request, and she would want to see the notes from the meeting if it were not her meeting. Um, just knowing her, um and being down straight to me, I think probably um knowing Anna, I would probably do the same thing the same way. Right. Let us see the the notes, or if we were in the meeting. Most of those times that you're in there. If someone's FOIA-ing on something, Probably a big enough thing that you're part of it. I would think. I can't imagine you know, I can't imagine outside.
085I really that's usually you know, either somebody thinks that there's something sideways going on, and they want to get clarification why it's going sideways, or they don't think they're getting the whole package. And you know, so All right. And hopefully [snorts] we can curb that. No, very good. I feel No, I feel very confident in that. Um Sorry, but Still scrolling to find that. It's like on page 300 KDB. >> [laughter] >> I'm only as far as F 171. I will There There are certain There's There's a few policies. There's a financial policy as well. We can I think we should come back and address it. Um Yeah, apparently when when I don't have to do this and find KDBs, then we can see what that All right. I will I'll send it to you
086after I'll I'll send it to All right, so Item four, new business. Does anyone have any new business today? Seeing none. >> But we had talked about looking at the policy, and I'm sorry, I should have emailed this to you. We just got hectic this week, but at school committee we had talked about looking at public comment policy. Yes. I don't know what number that is, but can we make sure that's on our next agenda, please? Um, seeing no further business, can I entertain a motion to adjourn? So moved. Motion so made, second. All those in favor, say I. I. Thank you, everyone. Very good meeting.