Norton School Committee Meeting 9/24/25

001All right, folks. I have six o'clock. We're going to get started. Start with the pledge of allegiance. The flag is behind me on the other side of the room. Pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and it stands one nation indivisible. >> All right, just so everyone is aware this meeting is being recorded. Please let us know if you are recording it as well. Start with our public comment period. Anyone looking to address the meeting, please do so with your name, address, and so if anybody wants to come up and address the meeting. Seeing none, we will go to vote to approve the minutes of the September 10th open session and executive session meetings. No one had a chance to read those. >> Nope. >> Any questions, comments, edits? >> Hearing

002none, entertain a motion to approve the open session meeting minutes from September 10th. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I. >> Next, we will entertain a motion to approve executive session meeting minutes from September 10th as well. >> So moved. Second. Second. All those in favor? Hi. >> Hi. >> Next is warrants. >> I have reviewed the following school expensive payroll warrants. The school expense warrant September 10th 2025 22,18642 cents and the spare payroll warrant September 4th 2025 1,117,62753 cents. I wish to enter those into public. >> Thank you. Next, we have our wonderful student representatives, but they are ready for their update. >> Hello everyone. Um, the middle school sports teams are off to a strong start with each team already earning wins in the season. Tomorrow will be a busy day

003as we host both the boys and girls soccer teams as well as volleyball. In addition, our back to school meet the teachers night, which will take place tomorrow at the meet as well. Um, we continue to take pride in our middle school classrooms and learning spaces. Just this past week, Norton resident and business owner um Jason Massie, I believe, of J. Massiey's sign install generously donated his time and talent to install a large Norton Lancer logo on our gym wall. The logo itself was provided by our parent board and we are deeply grateful for their partnership and support. Um looking ahead, the majority of our clubs will be up and running next week. Middle school remains a busy, vibrant community where students are active and engaged both inside and outside the classroom. And from the

004yell, a tremendous start to the school year as Mr. Gagan had presented at the last meeting. The Hey Nation is in full swing. Excuse me. The hashtag Hey Nation is in full swing. Um the fourth graders transition to the school has been super smooth and successful, especially as we have maneuvered from relationship building and getting to know activities to more academic learning. Our fifth graders have been taking the mantle of role models seriously as they are showing the way to be the older ones in the school. Um this past Monday, Dr. O'Neal spent the day at the Yale for her residency. was in and out of the classrooms talking with teachers and students, seeing all the excellent learning going on, and even did a couple of good news calls of the day. Um, it was

005an unbelievable honor and treat it was for some of our students to have the superintendent of schools take a picture with them. Thank you, Dr. O'Neal. On that note, Mr. Balawa and Mr. Gagan have already completed 34 Good News calls in the past 16 days. This just shows how amazing our students are, how incredible our staff is noticing is for noticing our students and overall what a great community Hey nation is. And that's all from us. Thank you. >> Great. Thank you. Any questions for Dunes? >> Okay, move along to opening of school remarks with principal TJ Flanigan. The right is Let's do that one again. >> We didn't even let him go last, >> you know. Like I said, you know, usually the new guy, we let him that person go last. >> I

006appreciate you guys very much. Um, so first of all, TJ Flanigan, uh, new Northern High School principal. I just want to say before I start the presentation, um, I started here in July and the moment I stepped on foot on this campus in the school, I felt nothing but welcomed. Um, it has been a true privilege being the principal of this high school. Um the kids that I've met, you know, staff, um parents, community members have been just uh just so welcoming and uh accepting, willing to help. Uh I will say this, you know, I've been to many high schools and you know, I I stand out with Mr. Shaughnessy. I know Mr. Mr. Cersei's on the other entrance in the morning and I say good morning to the kids. How are you? Right? They

007don't have to reciprocate. they don't have to say respond, but all of them do and they do it um in a way that just it's genuine. And so I just I'm so proud of to be here. I'm so proud of our kids. Um and like I said, it's just a privilege to be here. So now we have our first weeks of uh celebration. Um first off, this wouldn't happen without these individuals. So I actually want to publicly acknowledge um the individuals that made the opening slow. First off is our administrative assistants Justina Kasa, uh Judy Allen and Daniel Marartian. Um people don't know the behind thescenes stuff that they do to make sure that school operates. You know, whether it's scheduling, whether it's answering, you know, phone calls, whether it's, you know, answering questions from

008parents that come in. Um they have no idea all the behind the scenes stuff. They are the brains behind the school. All right? So, I just want to give them a huge shout out. Our custodial team, I'm going to tell you, I've been in many high schools, like I said before, I've never seen this the the floor. so shiny, right? And in July, I went up the second floor and it was oppressive. It was hot, humid, and those individuals, Chris, Mark, Greg, Cheryl, they they it was like service with a smile. They never complained. They worked really hard. And so, I want to publicly commend them too for all their work. Um, our technology department, we had the privilege of uh having Prometheium boards. And you know there was a little delay and I will

009tell you our our our technology department led by Karen Winsber just really you know they were able to pivot and they did what they had to do. I mean I've never seen more responsive and uh you know in regards to you know to Nick and Paul and the staff and Karen in regards to you know I I had a question or people they they come right there. It's I mean we're talking Nick today. I call I call Nick I call Nick Maccgyver right. He is he is unbelievable. if there's like a an issue, he troubleshoots. He's there. Um, so they they they deserve a huge shout. Guidance department. I'll give a shout out to Mr. Cersei, Vinnie Cersei, and his team. Um, scheduling is tough, right? And and to be able to and you're not

010going to appease everybody, but to be able to accommodate as many kids as we can with regards to their electives, you know, they worked really, really, really hard to do that and it was seamless. um our school counseling and special ed departments, you know, they once again um just to collaborate with them in terms of the scheduling piece of it, making sure our kids who are on a 504 IP have those services in place. Um they work behind the scenes to make sure that all happens. Our AC's, our academic coordinators and teachers, we did some hiring this summer. Um and it was uh it was one of those things where I anytime I reached out to an AC and the teachers, there was no even though they're on summer vacation, there was no hesitancy. they

011came in, they were part of that interview committee and I, you know, I, like I said, being the new person here to have their support was truly, uh, I truly appreciate that. And our athletic department, Aaron Sunder is a oneperson show. Um, that guy is unbelievable. He will go and he'll line the fields. He'll do everything. He will, you know, make sure he, you know, that one of the, uh, buses is operating. Like we had a coolant leak, he was there to help and support that. People have no idea. And so he uh deserves a huge shout out in regards to what he does for our kids to uh providing that athletic atmosphere. New policies are in place. All right. So I actually walked in with some new policies and I will tell you right

012now our cell phone policy I feel like is really going is off to a good start and that's partly because a hugely big part of our staff making sure they implement it fully. Right. and our our students have, you know, I know at first it was a little bit of a, you know, but I gotta tell you like 99.5% of them are on board with this. And I'll tell you right now, just going in classrooms and and talking with staff members and even talking with students who are a little reluctant at first, they're engaged. They're there. There's no distraction, right? And so obviously our we're charged as a staff to make sure that we continue that implementation and we execute throughout the whole year and beyond. Student good standing rubric, it's great. We have kids

013talking to like Mr. Shaughnessy, our assistant principal, where am I? How am I? What in terms of my tardies, am I okay? It they're really they're being held accountable, which is great, but they're also very um responsive in terms of things like I had a kid, for example, who you he was on a sports team, and last year he had some issues with Titus. We had a long talk about it and now he's coming in. He's coming in every day. we fist bump each other and he is here because he wants to be a part of this community and he wants to you know turn a new page in terms of what happened last year happened last year this year is a new start so I gave him a lot of credit so that good

014saying rubric is is definitely in full effect and we're seeing some huge benefits to that our tenants policy um like I said there was some you know policies there in regards to truency um we are re reinforcing some uh pre-existing policies that you know are you know making sure that um you know that it's student first in regards to the importance of being in school for the entire day uh in order to participate in extracurric extracurricular activities. That's something that we really you know it's it should be student first and that's something that we are enforcing and uh you know we're we're already seeing attendance improvements from last year to this year. Lancer Limelight. So big believer in, you know, the these students that hold these positions, officer positions, captains, what have you. Um, they

015deserve all the accolades. Absolutely. But there are kids that may not have those positions that may not be acknowledged. And I know that in talking with our staff and myself included, it's the little things that matter the most. And there are kids that just come in here and they do the right thing every day. And sometimes it gets acknowledged and sometimes it doesn't. Well, this is a way for us to acknowledge that, right? I'll give a quick example. We had our Friday night football game. Okay? We had two students on their own free will decide to there was trash left in the bleachers, right? And the place was packed. On their own free will decided to then clean up the trash. No one asked, right? That is what we're talking about in terms of Lancer

016Line. You know, doing something when no one else is asking you and doing the right thing when no one else is looking. Right. And so we we started that and we're going to be acknowledging our first students coming up uh the first Friday in October. Mr. Shaughnessy is really kind of spearheading this and we're really excited about that. It's going to be one of those things where um we have students and we have staff that will nominate these individuals, right? And then we will bring these individuals down and we will tell them why they were nominated, right? So they know that they've been seen in terms of doing the right thing and doing and being kind to people. And then the best part about it is then calling their parent or guardian, right? and letting

017them know this is why they're nominated and you got a great kid and keep up the good work. All right. And then they'll be they'll be they'll be spotlighted in our my uh my monthly parents newsletter and then also with Mr. Shaughnessy students newsletter as well. Welcoming new students. So grade nine our student council did a wonderful job with our uh our August 27th orientation. It's funny when you when you I was there when you go in and you see like the the deer in the headlights and really nervous, you know, grade nine students and they're walking around. They don't know where they are. They're they gravitate to each other. They're they're trying to, you know, navigate around the building. These orientation leaders did a tremendous job led by Liza Graasso and Melissa Beck who

018are our adviserss to just kind of like ease their worries, right? And I will tell you what the coolest thing was is after it was all over, they were still in the cafeteria that we had to like kick them out, right? Because they were just talking to each other, sharing schedules, all that stuff. And it was awesome. And so that bees right there that they feel comfortable. They're walking in. So big big huge shout out to that. Meet the teacher night was this past Thursday. Um, I want to commend um, Miss Haskell and also our student council um, students who who actually came forward and helped our parents guardians navigate around the building. They were funny. They were wearing signs. We know what no one told them to do this like get directions here and

019they're walking around the hallways, right? And and they were awesome and they were there the whole entire night helping parents and guardians sort of navigate the building and that was on their own time. So, I want to huge special thank you to that. um our guidance events that are coming up. We had a very successful um senior college night, you know, to go back to Mr. Cersei and his team. They have worked really hard to provide opportunities to sort of help the you know, parents and guardians and kids go through the process of like what is next after high school, right? And so they have a a just a menu of events and we had our first one which um was on September 17th. And you know, I was talking to Mr. Cersei was the

020the biggest one that he had in terms of turnout wise, which is great. And that's kudos to, you know, us trying to help, you know, parents navigate this with the kids too as well. Um, and then this is my newsletter that I do. It's Nancy Loud and Proud. This is as creative as I get, right? Um, but this is a a monthly newsletter that I send out and it's more or less, you know, just trying to celebrate like we talked about and I'll talk about this a little bit later. You know, when I first started this job, I heard, you know, there's so many good things at Hope that happen at Norton High School and it's so true. And so I'm just trying to with other people trying to find avenues on how to really

021showcase that, right? And so this is one of the things that I'm doing and also obviously keeping the parents and guardians informed of like the everyday doings of of uh you know of Norton High School as I said before. So uh before I was on um Twitter, I'm no longer um or X. So what we've done is in terms of these avenues that I've actually started a uh a Nordon High School Lancers Instagram page and that and really the sole purpose of that is to showcase kids you know when they are competing when they are in the arts whatever they're doing like you know we had our unified basketball game the other day like just really showcasing all the great things that we've have um and so that's been a that's been great sort of

022uh I want to say bragging right about our kids and all the good things that are happening. celebrating inclusion. I'm going to tell you right now, the highlight for me was this, right? When I first started this position, all I heard about was how huge this best buddies program was, how inclusive this community is, right? And to get that, so I had it framed. It's on the front counter. To get that is a testament not to me, it's to the kids, it's to the staff that this is a priority, right? and to feel included. I was at a Best Buddies, this is the Best Buddies, our our inaugural uh Best Buddies event. All right. And you know, Mr. Portway, Mr. Jingris, they they advise this, right? And I always say it comes from the top

023down. They have graded officers, too, right? 170 quarter of Mr. 175 kids signed up for Best Buddies. 175. Largest I've ever heard, right? And these kids all play kickball, right? It was great. I had a chance to kick the ball. It was horrible. Kid threw a curveball at me. So, yeah, he kind of caught me off guard, right? But that right here is the highlight right now for me, getting that certificate. Um, I made a promise to be visible, right? And and that's something that I hold true, right? It's important. Best part of my job is seeing kids do what they love, right? But what I will say is this. This class of 2026, they're special to me because I I I started with them. But I've had conversations with the members of class of

0242026 and I will say this, they set the tone for the building, right? If it's a positive, inclusive class, everything else trickles down, right? And I will tell you, I am so proud of this class. Benson, you're a huge part of this, okay? And your officers, right? Ryan's here, I know, too, right? And you know, you guys are what sets the stage for a successful school year. So, we had an awesome senior sunrise. Here's what I'll tell you. I live in East. It was pouring. 5:00 in the morning, pouring. I got an email from Mr. Portway saying, "It's still on. It's still on." Right? I go over the Norton line and the sky stood up. I'm like, "This is special." Right? So, I get there and it is dry as can be. And what do

025you have? Hundreds of kids, like your entire class there. That is huge. They could have been like, "I'm sleeping in. It's raining." Nope. They were there and they had a ball, right? This was the start of it. Right now, we get to the senior sunset cruise. Another beautiful day. Every kid that was like intermingling with each other. That's what it's all about. It wasn't just factions of kids. They're all intermingling each other. This group right right here, like I said, the class of 2026, I'm excited. We're only in September, right? We still got many more months ahead. So, just I challenge them to continue being unified, continue being inclusive, and making sure that, you know, you set that example for everybody else. Ball sports. Um, we've have we have the girls soccer team, volleyball team,

026we have the the cross country team, we have the golf. By the way, the golf was great. I'm a golfer, so I picked up a couple tips here. That was great. Uh we have football, boys soccer, we have cheerleading. They take pride in what they do, right? And I will tell you, I'm very proud of our kids and I'm and I'm encouraging them more and more, right? To not just go to particular sporting events, to go to other events. And we've talked about this in our student assemblies, okay? And I'm not just talking about athletics. I'm talking about arts, music, when all those events come up, right? And that's where I'm going to rely on the senior class to really set that tone, right? Because they will follow. All right? Um, staff loud and proud.

027I'm going to tell you right now, I have such a good time with this staff, right? Teaching is hard work, but you got to be able to have fun at the same time, right? And they are so dedicated, and I'm privileged to be their principal. We had these were the chaperones on our senior cruise. And then this was nice that the football team honored these staff members during halftime of last Friday's football game. and I wanted to find a funny little thing. So, looking forward to an awesome school year. Um, thank you for your time. It's been a really good start and I look forward to the rest of this school year. >> Thank you, Principal Flanigan. Anybody have any questions or anything? >> Oh, I stay here, right? Um, and so as a parent

028of a high school student, um, I have to say I'm beyond thrilled. Um, I came to the open house. You gave us an axe. That was amazing. I was like, "Hey, I actually can find where I'm going." Um, and the whole thing, like everything that you just presented is rings true. Uh, my daughter has done Unified since she was in fifth grade. Uh, so she's really excited about the Best Buddies program. She already signed up for DECA. like she has gone in all in and she is very excited about high school. She is having a great time. She settled very quickly. Um as a child that has anxiety like she's really thriving. Um and she had a tough choice to make between whether she was going to go to Southeastern or stay here in Norton.

029She chose Norton and she hasn't looked back and she's very excited. And so that's really a testament to the climate of the school. Um, so I thank everybody that, you know, encounters my daughter and you're all doing a fabulous job and you are very present. Um, which is so refreshing. So, thank you so much. >> Um, as a parent of a senior, um, it it's funny cuz she came home last week and she's like, "Yeah, I saw the saw the new principal outside. He was talking to somebody and then she's like he dead stopped his conversation to like greet a group of kids." and she's like, "I've never seen that in my four years that someone like genuinely stops a conversation to like to introduce themselves to kids." And you know, and a side note

030is, you know, I've heard from multiple different staff members, um, through through, you know, different sources that that you are doing well and you were very well received. So, uh, and it's nice to see you got your purple swag. >> But, you know, I we've heard a lot of good things. So, I I think you were the right person for for the job. And you know, we we look forward to seeing more good things from him as the year goes on. >> Anything else? >> I think just echoing Dan's words, you know, one of the big things from the entire interview process was changing the culture, you know, and uh I think we kind of hit a uh hit a jackpot here with TJ. Um you know, I think exactly what he just presented, you

031know, coming from the student mindset first is is critical to what we're trying to do in our flagship school, you know. So, I think uh kudos to you. You know, I've heard from multiple parents, multiple staff members, you know, around town of how much different the feel is in this in this building in the first three weeks of school. So, uh like I said, I think you're doing a great job so far and keep it up and I look forward to kind of keeping this rolling. Okay. >> Thanks, TJ. Thank you. Uh, next we have our student spotlight, the Newton High School staff. >> Thank you. Um, so tonight it is my honor and privilege to introduce uh two very special people. Uh, the first one is Jamie Maul who is our um, step out

032teacher here at Norton High School and the other is Ryan Tarszic. Ryan is a student in our stepout program here at Norton High. So come on up. I'm the teacher. I am Ryan from high school. Nothing. Um, so I made a quick video as a description and explanation of our step program. Um, so here it is. The SEL program is a post-graduation transition program for students aged 18 through 22. The mission of the stepout program is to provide quality educational and transitional support for students who are eligible to receive continued vocational and life skills instruction after completion of 12th grade. The stepout program focuses primarily on life skills necessary for students to transition to adult living including functional academics, self- advocacy skills, independent living skills, vocational skills, and social skills. I think the biggest areas

033of growth for the students are to empower the students to achieve independence and more self-confidence in what they do on a daily basis. While learning typically takes place in a classroom, for the students in the stepout program, learning can take place anywhere. Students may volunteer at places like Mansfield Treading or Mansville Bar Pizza, students learn on the job skills as well as soft skills such as communication, time management, and teamwork. Students enjoy bowling, shopping, getting coffee, and walking at local paths to explore the community. These are fun activities, but they provide students with the opportunity to learn social skills, budgeting, planning, and reading maps. What are some things that you've learned while being in the stepout class? >> I like to help in the community. I help at the pizza restaurant, at shredding, and at

034BSU. I learn a lot from Jamie and Debbie. Students also participate in programs with Attboro Enterprises and Bridgewater State University with other districts post-graduation programs such as Mansfield, North Attboro, Canton, and others. The goal of these programs are to develop social independence and self- advocacy skills which assists students in growing into adulthood. One of our students is uh that we work with is deaf. So what we try to do is empower her with self advocacy skills so that she can communicate her wants and needs. In this way, she'll be able to navigate her world with independence in any environment, socially as well as emotionally. In addition, we have students who are part of the Excel program at Bridgewwater State University. Students in the Excel program take one class per semester, get an internship on or

035near campus, get a peer mentor, and have weekly meetings with Excel staff to work on career and personal goals while they are in college. Students are fully immersed as college students and are able to access everything on campus from the gym to library to dining halls. Students have an ed coach from Norton who accompanies them and helps the students to build their skills and goals as they move towards adulthood. Why did you want to go to Bridgewwater State? Whoa. What skills have you learned since being in the step out class? >> What has Bridgewater done to help you reach your goals? >> It helped me to learn how to save money. So my role as a bed coach in the self program is to help the students in any way that I can. But I've

036noticed that as an ed coach um professors and peers who will come up with me first before talking with the students that I work with. My purpose is to help them advocate for themselves and it's fun to do that when the professors and peers want me to speak for them. I feel like my goal is to better understand and how to make agency with our students first and then use um to help better understand what might be going on. And the purpose of the cell program is to give them as much independentity as possible. and I'm just here to help them along the way. >> When students turn 22, some may choose to work while some go to adult programs with community- based day supports. At the end of the day, the goal of the

037stepout program is to provide students with independence, self- advocacy, and self-awareness and any other skills that they will be using in their adult life. What do you like about being in the staff program? I like I like music therapy. >> What else do you like? >> I like shredding. >> Working in the Stepout program has taught me more than I could have imagined. I have learned the importance of your words and responses, different ways and tools to encourage student engagement and self- advocacy, better communication skills, and how to grow deeper connections with students in the program. The beauty of working with students with disabilities is learning to expect the unexpected. You'll be put in social situations and interactions you simply never expected. So, it forces you to look inside to question, am I just reacting

038or am I truly responding with what is best for the student? I have learned that the best way I can support students is if I've done the work myself. This program has taught me to grow, to keep showing up even when I'm frustrated or it doesn't make sense. Trust the process because even though it's mostly in the long game you see wins, you are making a difference. This program has been a true blessing. Not only in the amazing opportunity it presents to the students for growth and success, but the gift in life it has given me to be able to say, "I get to do this. I get to be part of of their story." We all have a purpose in this world, and this program has given me the desire to lean in closely

039to the students and help foster their skills, gifts, and the places in which they can thrive in our community. my job and I don't have any questions or for me or for Ryan will be on the program or >> yes I was a former member of the step program man from 2001 2005 And it was a good experience and I've learned a lot and now look at me 20 years later I'm driving and being a happy person thanks to the step program. >> That's awesome. I don't know how this was the video is so amazing because I think it's it's so challenging to really explain how much the STEP program does and and the students that are in our program and all the things that they have available to them. And I think um Ryan

040and all of his peers in the step program did a really great job conveying what they like about the program, the things that they've learned, the benefits. Um it was like I'm a little bit speechless because it was just really really powerful. So thank you team. Thank you Ryan. >> Ryan, you played a g great game this week. I saw that was awesome. I can't wait to see next week's game too. Yeah. Anything else, guys? Thank you for your time. Thank you. >> Next, we have 2026 National Merit Scholarship Commened Students with Virginia. So, this is this is the fun part. Um, I'd like to uh outcome for Ryan Brat and Ben Yes, Kevish, please. So, I want to give you a little background here before I award their certificate and it's something that um

041they were the only two out of Norton High School that achieved this. So, this is quite an accomplishment. Okay, I'll read a little bit of the background see how everyone has some context. Um, students entered the National Merit Scholarship Program, a nationwide competition for recognition and awards conducted by the National Merit Scholarship Corporation by taking the 2024 preliminary SATs National Merit Scholarship qualifying test last October. In April, they were identified as the top 50,000 highest scorers nationwide. That is huge. And I just want to, you know, uh, we at as Norton High School, I know you're I can probably speak for your parents and guardians too as well, are so proud of you. Um, I had the privilege of of calling your parents and inviting them, and they were like over the moon, excited about

042it. And so, um, we want to publicly acknowledge and congratulate you for being a commended student for the, uh, a letter of commendation, I'm sorry, for the National Merit Scholarship Corporation. So, Ryan, there you go. Congratulations. Um, >> congratulations. >> Great job, guys. Uh, all right. Next, we have DEA field trips from the 2025 26 school year. Good evening everybody. Uh I think I know most of you. Uh my name is Rachel P. I'm the AC for business and technology and we are here tonight Mr. Fortway and myself with a couple of our DA officers to seek approval for the various trips that we have coming up this year. We have power trip in Washington DC area. Then we have our district conference, the overnight conference down in Hyannis. Then we have our state conference

043up in the seapport district in Boston. the sports and entertainment conference in Orlando, Florida, and hopefully some competitors for Atlanta, the National SDC in Atlanta. So, we have some of our officers here to give you a few details on the program. >> All right. My name is Benjamin Kevich. I'm the executive president of Norda. This year, I am very gracious to be able to talk a little bit about our success from last year as well as our vision for this year. So last year, our students were prepared for their competitions through practice role plays with our officer team where they got one-on-one feedback on how to improve their role plays and they gradually improve. We saw everyone do better over the course of this uh and the students would come down and take their own

044time uh to come down during our home room as well as uh our officers coming down to judge them every single day. Uh which is just incredible for both our students and officers. We also had officers creating 100 question practice tests to simulate the real exam that students were required to take as a part of their score for the competition and all of these students completed their exams and we saw scores gradually rise as well. Uh and a lot of these tests were kind of make or break for how students performed at the competitions and a lot of it was success because of how they did the test. We also had students writing 10 to 20 page papers um for projects that they created and it's a lot to write 10 to 20 pages especially

045the high schooler and also meeting deadlines but these students managed to make these deadlines and we had a couple of projects even qualify uh really far because of how much effort the students put into their projects. Uh so our officer team and students obviously everyone put in a lot of work and it couldn't have been done uh without any of these people stepping up. uh but it doesn't necessarily mean anything unless we had success. Uh but we had 75 members if nor last year 58 qualified to the state competition in some capacity which is a very big amount uh especially compared to years past and then 19 of those students qualified for the international competition. uh and we've had 85 and one in years past, but uh this was a huge number and a big

046accomplishment for us as a chapter and just to test into our preparation uh and how much work we put in to help these students succeed. Um and then we ultimately sent 15 students, nine competed and did very well um at the international competition. >> Um I'm Talia Gregs. I'm vice president of DECA. Um, and basically like going off of what Benny was saying, our success was like evident in the past year and we want to like just continue that. And our officers have already started in their summer, we got an email from um, Mr. Portway saying on August 1, let's get started on this plan because what we were doing is working and let's like start earlier so we can have more success. And honestly, that's already started working because last year we had 75

047members. Our goal was to increase by 30, but we now have 110 members this year. And so with that opportunity, we want to like we want to bring those members to like the higher levels. Um and bring hopefully we had what 19 last year qualify for nationals. We want to you know make that number jump even more. Um and that starts with like very beginning of the year. um reeling in the new members was very it was our first goal and we accomplished that and that was very exciting to see and that was through our hard work again. Um and our next goal is to like really explain to our new underassman what DECA is which we've always struggled with in the past because like the concept of DECA is like okay I get that

048it's a business club but what do you do? Um and so we're starting with that which um just like introducing the underassmen and new members. We actually have a meeting tomorrow. Um, it's going to be like a really fun cool way to like bring the members in and like show them what that is all about. Um, and for this coming year, we have a new training program that like our training VP um has worked really hard on um and can only be accomplished through a big leadership team, which we have grown this year to include underassmen so that when they're um juniors and seniors, they can understand like what okay, what is a leadership role? And so we're like kind of taking them under our wing. I've been personally working with our um underassman program

049and like really trying to like bring them into DECA and leadership and like empowering them to like leaders of DECA and hopefully outside the business. >> Yeah. >> Um to sum up all that, I going off Mr. Flanig's point from earlier, the class of 2026 has been pivotal in like every extracurricular that we've had here. Um but especially in DECA like since they were freshman like they hit the ground running and they've really built so much of our framework and our program throughout the years. Um and so we're really looking forward to this year together. I ran some numbers. Um so you know there's a narrative that goes like oh you go on these trips that's really fun you get out of school for a couple days right but as they talked about like the

050amount of work that these students do to be prepared to do well is insane. So for the next 7 months, our officer team um along with our members will conduct 1500 role plays and those role plays are like case studies. So they get 10 minutes, they get a snare, like a real business scenar, exam questions that will be answered and sent out to our students over that time. Um that they'll get feedback on as well. Um, and in addition students writing 10 to 20 page papers and putting together these really professional presentations. And so this program is extraordinary. Like I can't think of a better opportunity for our high school students than to learn how to tie a tie and then go sit in front of a judge who's a business professional and actually present

051to them a complete stranger what they've been working on for months. Um, and we're super grateful to our leaders who are really making this happen and stepping it up every single year. So we asked for your approval for our trips this year so we can go and compete and have another record-breaking year. And I talked to some parents the other night at meet the teachers night who were really excited about their kids joining DECA just for some of the reasons that these you know that Benny and Ty and you know what we have talked about just that it helps with job interview skills and it helps with you know just kids not being you know shy about talking to adults and you know even just going as far as to you know a good handshake

052and some eye contact and body language and you know all those things. So these are really all fundamental things that DECA teaches and yeah a lot of academic skills embedded in there as well. So very worthy me. >> Um I mean going back so many years that I've been here Mr. was one of our decent I was a perfect trip when he was in high school. That's not showing how >> I've actually known Mr. Porway since preschool. So, not showing either one of our agents, by the way. Um, you know, the one thing I've always liked about DECA is, you know, there's no one student that fits the DECA mold. Like, cuz it doesn't have your typical, it's not always a business student. It's not always, you know, a straight A student or a C

053or D student. It's, you know, it's a kind of a hodgepodge of of students from various different backgrounds. Um, I was talking to a friend of mine whose daughter started and um, you know, very kind of quiet kid. I've known her her whole life, but it again doesn't fit any mold because there isn't one. And you know, kudos to you guys as the leaders that and and you guys for for your executive positions that you're constantly training that new generation, that next group, the juniors, the sophomores. So, and that's the one thing I like about DECA is the, you know, the top student seniors are training those next students because that's how the program keeps growing. Uh, and the success is has been been evident for years. Um, so for me, this is always a

054no-brainer because this is our students doing something outside of their school time that, as you mentioned, it's it takes a lot. Um, and and I'm always surprised at when we look at the numbers how those look for the like you go to school for five days a week, you got homework, and then it's like, oh, by the way, let me do on my own time, you know, a bunch of hours and help my help my classmates prepare for their um their presentation. So, um, for me, this is always a no-brainer, but, um, I don't if there's any other comments or questions. >> I just, um, wanted to say, so when I started on school committee, I was, I will be very honest, I did not understand what DECA was. Um, and then when having like

055having you guys come and ask and voting on these and like this sounds wonderful and then over the years I've really started to understand and the life skills that you are able to teach these kids and help them practice and the like it's it really is um something that you can take from here and and use in the real world. And um Benny, you mentioned that a 10 to 20 page paper is a lot for a high school student. I will say being slightly older than a high school student, a 10 to 20 page paper is a lot for anybody. So that is a true testament to very hard work that you guys putting into this and um again I would have to echo a no-brainer for me. So >> anything else >> I would

056just say same and as a business owner DEA kids are amazing because they actually will make eye contact with you. They can answer the phone which is a huge scary thing for people. Um but I I love this program. Um I'm very excited my daughter has joined uh DECA. My husband and I were talking last night cuz we're both school teachers and we're like, we don't know anything about anything other than this. And so, um, we're really excited that this is kind of offering up an experience for her outside of this small world of teaching, which is the only thing that we know. So, um, so it's just going to open up, you know, more avenues for her to figure out what she kind of, you know, maybe what she wants to do with her,

057you know, life when she grows up. So, um I mean kind of girl, but um so I'm just really excited. Uh so yeah, no brainer. >> With that, I would entertain a motion to approve the deca tricks as presented. >> So moved. Second. >> All is in favor. >> I >> Good luck. Congratulations. >> All right. Next, we have first reading policies. She just chair >> getting the steps in. >> I'm back. >> So, I'm actually uh going to have Dr. Mr. Syri join me as well because they worked with me and along with guidance from Dr. O'Neal regards to the uh compy determination policy. So, um, we're going to split up the the presentation, but I want to thank all of them for their hard work, too, as well. And we had some really

058great conversations as to kind of what that looks like for here from, you know, Norton High School, uh, in considering obviously students and, uh, regards to, you know, the, uh, we'll say, the, uh, the role that MCCAST potentially plays. Um, so, just a little overview. Um, in November of 2024, the mask for approved question two, which was uh prohibited the use of MCCAST to earn a competency determination to obtain a high school diploma, right? And so in May of 2025, uh, Jessie provides some guidance and regulations on what school districts must require for students to earn their comp determination. So really in essence, there's two buckets. I'm trying to use an analogy. All right. So, we have the compsy determination bucket that's through, you know, that we as Nordon public schools have to come up

059with. And then we also have our local requirements, right? And so, for in order for a student to earn their high school diploma, they have to fill both buckets, right? And so, we're going to talk about the first bucket, which is the competency determination. And then at the very end of the presentation, we're going to ask uh or we're going to show you our our our recommendation as to an adjustment to the local requirement too that's currently there. So first off uh we are actually um in terms of the desi guidance we are aligning our competency determination to what their suggestions are um which is a successful completion of two years of a certified English course with full credit you know obtaining full credit minimum passing grade successful completion of two years of a certified

060math course uh full credit minimum passing grade and then also a successful uh completion of at least one year five credits of a certified science course and I don't know why this is in black. But anyway, um in 2027, uh there is going to be a a history component to this. So, it's going to uh we're going to require at least one year of a certified history course for full credit, minimum passing grade. So, that's aligning the guidance. >> Quick question. >> Sure. >> Have these have these gone down because I thought wasn't it four years of English? >> That's the difference requirement. So this is exactly so this is just the um the comp determination and then the local requirement stays the same with four years of math, four years of English. The only

061adjustment will be in regards to MCCAST and the role that has in terms of uh graduation. Thank you. >> Welcome. So the certified courses that we have identified are our English one and two courses uh algebra 1 and geometry courses, bi either biology introductory physics, uh physics and chemistry courses and then like I said for the US history course too as well. This is all aligning with the DESI regulations in their recommendations. Um it says in order to maintain that student must demonstrate mastery which Dr. Arian is going to talk a little bit about uh in the next couple slides. skills, competencies and knowledge contained in the state academic standards and curriculum frameworks. >> So the competency determination if is demonstrating mastery is is really talking about the how. So what are students going to

062be asked to do in their coursework? So for ELA, it's similar to what we've done. Students are going to complete comprehensive assessments, including like a midyear, a final, or a project-based learning activity. So, one of our overarching goals for all of our ELA programs is to make sure that our students can read effectively. So, by we're going to summarize, predict, recall, synthesize, and apply information. Also, making sure that proper vocabulary is embedded. All of our ELA students will be able to write and communicate effectively using proper structure, grammar, organization, mechanics, and critical thinking. Making sure that our students also have the skills of identifying and working collectively to solve problems. And then obviously a transferable long-term skill is to make sure that we gather and evaluate uh sources and resources to make sure that we

063meet our high school rubric for academic expectations. For math we want to make sure again similar we keep the requirement about exams and then for mathematics also making sure that we understand and apply the linear and exponential relationships in real world contexts. So e whether it's algebra or geometry is a course these are mastery uh expectations that we have for all kids to make sure that we can analyze and solve algebraic equation algebraic functions and data modeling demonstrate spatial visualization geometric relationship skills. Of course, a primary purpose of math is to use deductive problem solving methods across a range of mathematical concepts and make sure that all of our students meet uh the high school's academic expectations through mathematical reasoning. For science, again, first requirement is the same. It's about assessments, mid years, and finals.

064Again, across concrete, making sure that our students can apply essential scientific concepts through hands-on experimental work and data analysis to identify and solve scientific problems. Working collaboratively and independently in a laboratory and research setting, gather and evaluate scientific information from multiple sources to support conclusions. And again, the common thread that we make sure that our students meet the high school uh expectations on scientific inquiry in our rubrics. And then finally for history, making sure that we understand all of the historical concepts from the Revolutionary War through the industrial revolution. Ensuring our students can analyze American democracy, governmental systems, westward expansion, and political party development. making sure our students can examine economic and social change sectional conflict, civil war and reconstruction. Key indicator or key competency for US history is reading and writing effectively about numerous

065historical topics. Ensuring that students are able to use the proper structures and critical thinking and analyzing historical documents to support arguments and conclusion. And lastly, it's to ensure that our students can work collaboratively and independently to evaluate information from multiple sources. So, um, when we have our own students coming in, that's that's easy for us to do, right? Because they're following our process. They're going to be we're going to be checking to make sure they're meeting our local requirements. So what this is talking about is when students essentially move in especially if they move in later in their academic careers. Um this is very similar to the honest what myself and the uh guidance department do anyways. So we have a move in student rate. We're checking to see what courses have they taken. How

066does it align with our our uh graduation requirements? Have they passed certain courses? Maybe there's a prerequisite that you know they need to take to get to the next step. So forth and so on. So, we review transcripts all the time. Typically, if they're moving in state, that's simple. It gets a little bit more complicated sometimes when it's out of state, but um you know, we we either work with the department heads, the academic coordinators, kind of figure that out. Um there may be times when we are looking at getting them placement exams or trying to figure it out that way. Uh often times, you know, I'll reach out to to the schools themselves, ask about their curriculum, get some more information. Usually give that to Dr. accommod we we go from there and it

067does have to you know again align to the state standards um and then you know there will still be state testing whether it's here or someplace else so sometimes we can use that as well so we take all of that to make sure that it meets our standards meets the state standards uh for this competency so again very similar to what we've always been doing and then um as part of the uh DESI guidance Right. So there are students who in 23 the class 23 24 um they were able to reach out to us and say okay you know I didn't pass MCAST but I think I met the competency termination. So based on that we are able to um provide them you know I do again kind of review the transcript make sure that

068it meets all the things they're supposed to do. There's that process to do that within 10 days. That's easy. Um we have that information. It doesn't take that long. Um, and then I notify uh the principal and the superintendent and say, "Yep, she or he has met all of the requirements and um you get them a final transcript. We changed the year of graduation um and give them their diploma." So that's I had to say that because that's what they told me to say. So they So there we are. I guess my my one question is if we look back say historically and not to put you on the spot but like would we have >> uh but if we say had eliminated MCCAST like 10 years ago would we still have students that could

069be on the bubble and not graduate just from their academics alone taking out MCAST >> not graduate? Yeah, like not gradually. >> Yeah, I mean there's there's >> there's always a couple. There's always a few, but I would say a lot of them may have grad. >> Not all of them. Not all. There would been some >> might have been better off without an So, we have kids every year that struggle with MCAST. >> So, this could put them in a better >> they have met those basic competencies. Yes. >> And gone beyond that. >> Yeah. So, um they kind of walked you through the the recommendations that we have and then in your packet we have two um policies for for you as a first reader. The first is IKF which is the competency

070determination. This is a brand new policy for Norton public schools. We do not have one that currently exists. Um so it's a little bit lengthy. Um it is based off of the model um policy that was developed by MASC. So the beginning is is very simple. It explains why we have it. Um it talks about the um coursework requirements from the state. Um and then it goes through the aligned courses that we have here in Nor. Um please note that where it says English language arts, I neglected to update it to English one and English two even though we had this conversation yesterday. So I have to make that change there. Um and then for all of them it talks about the fact that um it talks about successful completion uh and then the minimum

071passing grade. Um it also notes that for math um math is the only area where you don't necessarily have to be in high school to take some of that course work because we do have some eighth graders that are currently taking algebra 1. So, if they take that course at Norton Middle School, it still qualifies towards that competency determination. Um, but we we mark that there. Um, it also talks about our additional considerations for students with disabilities or English language learners. Um, and it also walks through the appeal process. >> So, this is correct. It's 2003 to 20 2004. Is it 2023? No, it's from 2003, which was the very first year that they had the graduation requirement that um touched upon MCCAST. Yes, I know it looks weird. You're like, why would why would

072we be going that far back in time? Um but part of the um regulation changes allows people that may not have graduated at that time because of the MCCAST qualifications to go back and request that their high school um audit audit their transcript. Um, so that is correct. So, um, that will be what we would do if anyone were to come forward and I believe we've had one or two people so far come forward and ask >> and that person was able to get a trade school who wasn't going to be able to invest first read. Um, this is uh IKF graduation requirements. This is the one we actually updated last spring when we had to do this under um a quick time constraint. Um and we talked about the competent discern competency determinations there.

073Um so we took out any information that had to do with competency requirements because we now have a whole a whole beautiful policy all to itself. Um and the one the other thing that we added was that um in order to graduate from Norton High School, a student must have earned at least 95 credits. That's our current policy. and it used to say and complied with all state accountability requirements. Now that those are no longer state requirements, we are saying that in order to graduate from Norton High School, you must participate in state required assessments. Um we're not saying they have to pass. We're not saying they have to get any sort of qualifying score. We're just saying they need to sit down and take the test. And ultimately, um, that's for us as a

074school district because, um, we are held accountable to number one, the scores that we get as a district, but also to the number of students that we have that actually participate. And what we saw, and we'll share with you um once our MCCAST data is unembarggoed next week, what we saw was a a huge decline in the amount number of students that participated last year. Um, and that is is really challenging for us because for um years when we do not have the minimum participation rate of 95%. Um, if you have that for more than a couple years in a row, that can impact our our our grants. It can impact um our ability to make decisions about what we teach here in Norton. Um, and it could potentially um put us in a position

075where the state is coming in and giving us more guidance than what we would like. So um we felt that this was something um that was important to us as a school community. So any questions that you have about um anything that um the team here presented tonight or the two policies themselves? >> So I mean not wanting to to look too far ahead, but has there been any any rumors or anything that says they're coming out with another type of assessment to replace MCAST? like are we going to go through all this again and there's going to be a new test or like have they even >> I would say never say never. I mean um I think I so based on federal guidelines current federal guidelines we have to assess every student at

076least in you know at least three times throughout their their career. Um that was we used to do fourth, seventh and 10th. Um that is still a federal guideline. We still have to give some sort of common assessment. Um, I think that the state of Massachusetts and the department of elementary and secondary education have to really look at the way that they're evaluating schools now. Um, our accountability ratings are handinand with MCCAST. Um, and as I mentioned to you, the um, participation rate is a challenge for us, but um, having all of those things that were high stakes previously um, tied to funding for schools and and what we're doing, it's just it's not it's not fair, >> honestly. And, you know, I sound like a a child. It's not fair. Um, but ultimately what

077I, um, Casey and Brian were in the same room with me last year at a conference and I raised my hand and I said, you know, what is the department considering when it comes to um, re-evaluating accountability ratings because, you know, I'm concerned that now that it's no longer required except X, Y, and Z. And they said, oh, we don't believe it will have anything to do with participation rates. So, um, conversations with my Yeah. >> Oh, yes. Conversations with my colleagues across the district, um, across the state have been, um, very similar whether you are in a place like Norton or in a place like Weston. Um, everyone saw a sharp decline in participation and achievement as well. So, it'll be interesting to see what what comes forward. So, I would say yeah, maybe

078the states answer. >> Yeah. You know, just to add on to what Jen said, we had had this speculative conversation that they're looking for us to do the work. So, they're going to get of these applications, but they all have to be submitted by December 31st. Then, they will, in our opinion, pick the most cumbersome, burdensome, make the most one, and then send it back to us. But that's speculation on our part. >> I think you know experience. >> So when you're talking about the 95% is that for the entire district or just the sophomore class? >> Um it's 95% per person >> for each school? >> Okay. So Norman Middle School has to get their 95%. It's for every grade in every school. >> So I'm only asking because so this graduation requirement are

079we tracking the students from elementary up? So, like if >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> That's why I'm asking about like what what we're >> they would need to sit for tests in high school. >> High school, right? That's what that's what I was checking because again like >> Oh gosh. We're going with that. So, it has to be the sophomores that have to do the >> Yeah. So, when you're in high school, you have to sit for every assessment. >> That's what I was questioning. >> What's our This could be a tough one, but what's our plan to have kids sit down and test and actually care? >> I don't know. Well, it doesn't say caring all >> I don't want to offer any panaceas because we know that it's it's difficult. But to piggyback

080on what Jen said earlier, there are working groups among like district level cohorts of people. I'm trying to currently organize one with the assistant superintendent group to sit collectively and strategize and problem solve around motivation, around energy, around ways to engage kids positively to take the test. Like we we really want to as a as a collective say to the kids, it's just important you do your best. That's it. Not nothing else. So we can just as Jen alluded to earlier, make sure that we can stay above those participation thresholds because of all the other consequences that could potentially come by not being there year-over-year. Just let me just piggy back on that there's also scholarships that are still there, right? So Abigail Adams. So there's stuff you know that they there in incentive to

081do the best you can on these exams as well. the the carrot dangling still there is you do really well in your >> state schools that is all still in >> it's all still in play but yes guess what the ones that are getting the ones that are driven to do well on test because it's their own like bribe to begin with >> yes but >> you know so they they regard irregardless they're going to do that anyway so >> I think the other thing too is that we are constantly having conversations with students about the importance of things that we do here So, all of our students take STAR assessments beginning in kindergarten all the way now through grade 10. And the better we are with that data, the more valuable students will see

082it. So, like, hey, you did really well on this or we're using that to drive instruction and say to kids, hey, we noticed that you guys already have mastered this, so this year our math class is going to start here instead of there. or you know, we've noticed that this, you know, this group really could use more support with why and we're going to provide you with that. So, I think the more students see the connection between what the assessment they're doing and how it impacts what they're getting in the classroom, the hard part about MCCAST is that you don't get any of that information until the summer time, >> right? So, those students have already moved on. Um, and so I think that the department needs to do a better job of getting information

083back to schools and to students so we can share that with families. Um, I've also shared there's a new MCCAST um, parent portal coming out. They will be um, we will get letters probably next week um, if not the week after um, to share with families about their with how their child did. But then families will also um beginning in October have their own um login and see their child's historical data as well. >> I also think there's that idea of a sense of belonging and sense of pride in the high school, right? Feeling that they're connected and it means something. I think that has an imp. But if you can raise that bar by saying, "Hey, this is something you know that reflects on your high school and it reflects on how colleges will

084look at your high school down the road." Those are the kind of things, but you can't do that unless you have that sense of belonging and pride. So, I think the things we've been talking about Planning was talking about are important. >> All right. Circling back again to that 95% question that I had. So, we're talking about the high school for this graduation. That's one school of five. So again, we get that required participation for the high school. There's nothing really of an incentive for middle school and below at this moment in time. So like what happens if the other four schools are not meeting that participation requirement? Is that still having an effect and an impact upon or do they really only care mostly about the high school level? >> Oh, no. Jesse cares,

085>> right? So the so what I'm asking is if we we're putting this in and we're dangling this carrot on the high school students, how is that being an incentive for the rest of our district? >> So this and this is a policy on graduation requirements. So I think it's a probably a bigger conversation about what our expectations are. The Department of Education will tell you that they do not have an opt out policy for >> MC. And I said, "Great. Can you So what do I tell families that are now opting their they don't allow it, but there's no teeth is really what it comes down to." So it's myself and the building principal chasing these families and saying you need to sit down and and then I also um >> can we create

086>> the opt out policy is now different in terms of curriculum, >> right? which we discussed at our last meeting. So, um >> I I think you know I I know that building principles are already having these conversations with their teachers about like the message that we need to send as educators that this is important. It's, you know, while you may not see the value in value and benefit for your child as an individual, it's really important for us as a district that we are able to, you know, get this data and um, you know, take with from it what we were able to. So, um, I don't know. I mean, there are there's really not much that we can like create with teeth, but we can see what other districts are doing because this

087is not just a Norton issue. A lot of people are running this now. >> Our numbers are typically high >> for our younger school, younger kids taking this test. >> Yeah. >> And there is really no teeth we've ever had. >> Well, and so I think our issue would probably be more administrative. this is the requirement for high school where it's, you know, the bigger one if you will. So, I mean, we also might be okay to hit that 95% of threshold. >> And so, what I would say is data is still embargoed. So, I really can't talk about publicly at this moment. Um, but I think that um we're having conversations about places where we might be on the cusp um and places where we have concerns. And so, um, you know, it goes

088along with the conversations that we're having about attendance and the importance of being in school and learning. So, starting to see a condom theme. So, this is just tonight. There are no um votes that need to happen. Um, but if there's anything that you have questions about or would like us to see us update, um, please let me know. Can I ask a overarching question with the mastery list of what we kind of just saw on the presentation like who kind of came up with those >> bulleted points? >> So the guidance itself like some of the metrics are from Desi. So they gave us like a bucket of indicators. Okay. >> But the rest of it kind of comes from like our our local context practices that we've already had. So if we have

089schoolwide rubrics based upon academic competencies, they're perfectly uh eligible to go in. >> Did look was say not a committee, but was there like a committee to kind of decide these? Was it admin driven? Was it teacher driven? Was it >> I think these have these have kind of been the longstanding practices. Okay. you know, in ter in terms of like dispositions about reading and writing and assimilating knowledge and spreading knowledge across different content, it really dubtales with what's been happening at at the high school. I think my last piece because I know we talked about graduation requirements in the spring and I think I said it then as well but like I really truly believe we should be adding some type of financial literacy course at the high school that is a graduation requirement

090to take whether it's your third or fourth year at the school I think would be a great thing to look at. I also think having some type of senior project where these kids almost in a deca world type idea and and put it to the normal community doing a project that they can work at an LLB together exactly what that looks like. I have no idea. But I feel like that would be a step above that would separate Norton and it would give our kids a huge leg up because we know how DECA does great things for college applications. Having something that's Norton that's driven from that way would also be a huge uh huge application boost for our students and not even throw the college aspect of it a huge learning boost in terms

091of getting out being able to answer a phone talk to adults all that fun stuff I think would be a great thing to start looking at it >> I think and you might be doesn't the civics classes do some of those type because I know I've seen you know some things of those kiddos doing >> yeah the civics it's part of civics and I I >> that's a state that every student participated in a civics project during high school. Yeah. >> Um and this this policy allows for that flexibility, Nick. Um it does allow us to um add in any a particular program or credits that may be needed in certain areas. Um so this is not our exhaustive list of graduation requirements. This is more of the general um like our students take 125

092credits. >> We're saying they have to have at least 95. that gives us a little bit of flexibility in in certain situations. Um, and then we added the state required assessment. But, um, I think, you know, that's something that we kind of talked about when I when we met yesterday, too. Um, that can look at other things. And I think the, um, financial literacy component has a has a budgetary aspect to it because you're going to need to say, okay, if we need to get 175 kids through this class in X amount of time, what is that going to look like? Um, so things for us to consider as we're looking at our budgets moving forward and um, what courses we're offering to students as well. >> Anything else? >> Thank you all. >> Right.

093Next, we have the second reading both on JC the school attendance and J students. >> So, we looked at these for the first time at our meeting on the 10th. Um JEC there was one change made to this um right underneath where it says excuse absences on page one. Uh we moved uh the is students responsibility to obtain any makeup work from the teachers. Um that was at the bottom of the policy and we moved it up to the top so that way people wouldn't visit. Um so that is one. >> So quick question on this. >> Yes please. Maybe this is just your thought, but teachers are required to provide that, right? Excuse me. >> No, they they provide the the work and the majority of it. It's actually um of our teachers have

094everything through um Google Classroom. So, it's uh takes a little bit of that away. Yes. Excuse. Yes. Unexcused, not no. And not necessar not at the time either. So the days of you saying I'm going to Disney and my kid needs all this water. Fair enough. Yeah. >> So we've had this problem obviously hopefully with school time change eventually here. We'll get a middle school kid who's playing some type of sport leaves misses science class. Is that an excused absence? >> It's unfortunately yes. It's an excused it's it's an excused class absence. Right. Um, I actually sat down, this is super off topic, but I actually sat down recently with um, Vinnie Hayward and Aaron and we were looking at um, the bus times and the lead times and how late can they leave in

095order to not in order to make it to where they need to go by X time. Um, so that's something that we're looking at and again hopefully the time changes will help us in that regard. So should we add an excused absence is athletics. >> Um so we took out field trips >> and we because we consider all of those things to be um you're here and in school and you're present. >> Um so >> I would say that fall to me that falls kind of in that same realm of you're technically in school, you're not necessarily absent. Um, but they still the student still needs to is still responsible for getting the work from that teacher >> and and I don't know the schedules anymore, but they're not constantly missing. >> No, >> it's

096probably maybe once a week for weeks if that. >> Yes. And two games a week. >> And again, the way that both at the middle school and the high school the schedules rotate. Mhm. >> So if you have science first today, you might have Spanish first tomorrow, which means you're different, you're missing a different course >> in the afternoons as well. So depending on the sport itself, you know, some like when you get to baseball and softball season, they have multiple games per week versus football, it's just Friday nights. So >> any other questions on JC? You got to vote these separate. >> You have to vote them separately. Yes, please. >> Entertain a motion to approve policy as written. JC >> second. >> Next we have JH. >> Okay. JH. Um there are no

097updates um from the last time here. This is just looking at um our student abs absence notification program drop off prevention >> question this one >> a motion to approve J. All those in favor. >> Thank you. >> Next we have >> All right. Uh so tonight I am here to share uh my goals for the 2025 2026 school year. Um and this does require a vote. So uh there are three goals here. Uh the first is under the district improvement category. strengthen instructional practice across the district by establishing clear feedback loops from the superintendent to principles and from principles to teachers. Focus on learning targets and effective teaching strategies. Um, and so I'm not going to read all this to you. You guys are fully capable of doing that. So focusing on strengthening principal

098leadership in instruction, modeling instructional focus through classroom visits, ensuring timely and effective feedback to teachers, and then creating a feedback loop for continuous improvement. Um, and the benchmarks will be 100% of principles will receive monthly instructional leadership feedbacks. A minimum of four joint visits with each principal um throughout the year. Uh, and then we'll what we'll do is we'll share those trends with the leadership team quarterly. And then uh my part of the goal is making sure that principles are meeting timelines and providing documented feedback to teachers within five school days um of visits in at least 90% of the cases. Um this is required by our contract. So should 95% of the cases should be a low target. Let's let's see what we um second goal is around student learning um enhancing district systems

099to ensure equitable access to high quality learning opportunities um by implementing year one of the strategic plan. This is our particular focus on building those effective data systems. So um we have already um started the building high impact teaching teams uh this summer. All of our principles and central office administrators are all taking this course together with our teacher leaders um in kindergarten through grade 12. Um it's been a great learning experience together. Um also looking at using data to to drive uh continuous improvement. Um benchmarks 100% of the year one action items from our strategic plan will all be initiated by June of 26. Um and I will offer public updates at least twice during the course of the year. Um 100% of the principles will participate in at least two data focused professional

100learning sessions. We've already met that goal which is really exciting. Um and then by spring of 26 implementing a district-wide dashboard tracking at least three consistent academic indicators. So this is going to part of our big focus that we've been working on with the um RBT course and our teachers is that um developing developing consistent structures and protocols. So we all worked together that first day. Everybody was all in the same room. It was right after our welcome back day and our PD day. And now we have an elementary cohort and a secondary cohort. And we've done one full day session since school began. We have another one at the end of this month, beginning of October. Um, and we know that this is going to look different at the elementary level than it does

101in at the middle school and high school. So, doing those divisions of cohorts and having them plan together has been really valuable so far. And then finally, the third goal is around improving visibility and strengthening connections between the superintendent's office and students, staff, families, and the community by clearly communicating how district initiative support improved student learning. Um, so strengthening communication on our learning initiatives, really talking about the how and why, uh, building family and community partnerships and closing the feedback loop. Um, really sharing back how the imp the input from our staff, students, and community are shaping what we're doing. Um, and I kind of modeled this for our staff on the first day of school and said, "Hey, last year, last year you guys all provided me with feedback on, you know, how I

102was doing. this is what I've taken from that and this is how I develop my goals for this year. Um, so publishing at least one district communication per month that's focused on our instructional priorities and student learning, holding at least three family and community engagement sessions throughout the course of the year. Um, and then highlighting at least two examples during the year where stakeholder input directly influenced our decisions or initiatives. So, I'm happy to answer any questions. Uh, and this does require a vote from the committee as well. questions. I think I think first off, since I've been on school committee, this is the most inclusive goal setting I've seen from any superintendent. Uh, one, you can clearly see throughout it, it is all student focused. One, that's always good. But two, it took in

103a lot of what we talked about at the strategic planning meetings and put it actual goals on paper that make sense for what we were trying to do as a community. Um, it has measurable goals. The benchmarks are great. This was I feel like this was like the best thing I've I've read um since being on school committee. So, Jen, that's a huge huge preview there. Um, one comment is on benchmarks. It says 100% of sorry, goal one, uh, 100% of principles receive monthly instructional feedback. >> Is that written? Is it verbal? I mean, I can give someone feedback in a in a hallway like how do we I guess kind of what is your thinking just there? >> Well, this is going to be new for us this year. So, it might start with

104um collaborative conversations when we're doing these um these walks and these visits and sharing with them, hey, I noticed that or I really like the way that you um and then I think it will probably become a little bit more formalized as the year as the year progresses. um especially when we take a look at those joint visits and the way that we're visiting classrooms together and we're sharing what we see and sharing um what we like and what we're what what concerns we have. I think that would probably um be a little bit more formalized in in terms of you know we met earlier this week. These are the things that we talked about. This is what we're going to be looking for the next time. Um that's how I see it going and

105and to be honest, Nick, um it's going to be new for us. So, we'll see what works and what doesn't. I >> I would just say, you know, you know, we we have a saying at work, especially from the safety department, if you don't write it down to so I mean, so I would because I'm a man. So, and I think, you know, to me, and not that our principles would do this well, but I just don't want it to be a situation, yeah, we never talk. So that way these and it doesn't have to be anything formal or go into their file and just say hey you know even just like a little review of what you did when you met with them just like a little one page like to me I just

106I come from the documentation world so I would say probably formalize it but it's again it's up to you. >> Any other questions comments? I just agree with that straight love the normal goals. Thank you. >> All right. With that, I will entertain a motion to approve the superintendent goals as presented. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next, we have the Northern Middle School project. >> All right. Well, everyone's here tonight. Um, bring our our presenters over. Um, we have a couple different things for you. Um, number one, Christina is going to share the slides that they are going to share with you tonight. Um, and I apologize we had them for you earlier, but then we had a couple tweaks that we made this afternoon. So,

107this is the updated um, and I also shared with you um, a couple um, things that we pulled together in the last few hours um, in terms of a timeline. And then I also included a memo um 2006 that I thought you have to put in valuable. Mhm. Yes. So, I just want to introduce um James who is our OPM and >> Jay from Tai and Bond. Um so, I will really turn it over to them. Uh they know that we have a lot of questions for them tonight. Um and we're hoping for some clarity. So, um, thank you guys so much for coming out. We greatly appreciate it. >> Thank you. Thank you guys for having us. You know, given the time and, uh, we we'll try to make it brief. Um, we actually,

108you know, we have a slide deck. You guys see it there. Um, it answers we we try to anticipate, but it's mostly hopefully backup. Trying to think like, you know, got town meeting coming on October 20. you know, whatever questions, whatever answers we're trying to provide you for that time so that so we can you can confidently you got to confidently um advocate for the project or or or not. So, um that's what we're here for tonight. >> Yeah. And I think the presentation we put together, it's not that many slides, but it kind of talks to like the condition of the roof, kind of how the process we go through, you know, and what the restoration process looks like and the investigative process they go through. And then the last slide is all the

109dollars and cents. So we can if you want to go through all the slides, we can step through them and give you that information. We can go to the slide at the end and start talking about the dollars and cents and double back on the other slides. We're open to however you folks want to proceed. I think for me personally and I think we discussed this a little bit last week and you know we're talking about a to me it's a significant but I guess and I haven't gone all the way but what does a replacement versus a restoration look like costwise cuz my concern is you know this building is 25 some odd years old >> 27 years old >> and you know it seems to have issues for you know, so I guess

110like I just don't want to go, you know, half in because we're trying to save a little money versus go full in maybe for a little bit more. So, do we have those numbers what that looks like? >> Yeah. Look in restoration versus replacement. >> Yeah. And and again, we're at the schematic design phase. So, we're really early in the process with numbers editing. Okay. but using numbers from another school that we're working on right now in the city of Gardner that's kind of a comparable school that's doing a full replacement and taking the cost estimate information that we had and kind of taking out the restoration cost plugging in full replacement costs for the portion of the roof that we get changed to full restoration is about 2.1 million added to go to full

111restor or full replacement instead of restoration. Can you just so everyone can understand exactly what we're talking about? What does a restoration mean and what does a replacement mean in terms of two two separate things? One, what does it actually two what does it look like from a construction standpoint of how long what is this going to take? Are we going to be all come from the front and being like, oh, we don't have a roof on the side. >> Yeah, I to answer that last question. That's one of the benefits of going on a resolution versus replacement because the process is faster, you know, so you can shorten your construction schedule. There's a better chance they come, you know, mid August, you're in a good spot versus being pushing into September. You want to

112back up a couple slides of slides that talks about going right this one right here. So the the big difference on the restoration is the first thing they do and we did this already some consulting company they do a vint red scan of the whole roof to look for areas they do it at night to look for areas of wet insulation. I should go back to one more slide that so all the red areas are the places where they found wet insulation. So those areas all have to be completely removed cut out completely removed down to the decking. check the decking. The decking's bad, you have to replace the decking. And then they put, you know, a full new EPM roof back up to the surface in those spots. And those account for about 10%,

113right? >> 9.4% of the roof area. The rest of the roof area, that's EPDM. Now, remember the these areas here, metal, all this front is all metal. That's full replacement. That's not restoration. So, we're just talking about the EPDM portions, the remainder of the roof. for the restoration. They come in, they pressure wash it, they check all of the the leaks and things. They patch all the visible holes that they they can see in the EPDM. And then flip one more slide. They come in with it's a three-part process. They put down a base layer, like a fluid base layer. There's like a geoteexile scrim that goes in there, and then they put another top coat over the top of that. And that is goes all over the roof. if you have changing slopes or

114anything um up the curbs. The HVAC equipment's removed, the the restoration goes up the curbs. Um and then that's your final roof surface. So the existing EPDM remains and they put this threepart, you know, coating system over the top of it. So that's the the process. It's a 20 20 They offer 20-year warranty claim. It's good for 25 years. They come out and inspect it at no cost yearly, you know, to check with any if there's any issues. Trying to think what I like I said, metal roof areas are all full replacement with brand new metal roof. >> So, so a replace uh replacement at that little graph in the bottom corner. You're telling me that last 20 years? >> 20 years. Yep. One year. Well, they they give you a 20-year warrant up to

115a 20-year warranty on it. >> That's right. They say that it that it lasts. >> They claim a minimum of 25. >> Okay. So, in 25 years, we're going to be sitting here in that time probably asking for 25 million from the tech base. >> Not sure how how you get 25. >> Well, I mean 12 million to make. So, but now it's costing us. I'm not used to 10 million to do the roof. >> The warranty is 20. They cla they claim it lasts at least 25, right? I don't at the end of 25 years. just to completely fail. Probably not. I don't think >> so. Residential and I know residential roof is very different, but you're getting at least 30 to 35 guaranteed warranty on those. >> We get that. Yep. >> But

116you're also not replacing it at year 36 potentially. >> You're getting 50 60 take care of a full full replacement. And we would have to if we went full replacement, you have in the in the documents you're you can either get a 20, 25 or 30 year warranty. >> Obviously, it's more expensive. So, they're only offering a you can get up to a 30-year warranty on a on a full replacement. >> I guess my my concern here is we've had an issue with this type of roof for 27 years. Why are we going to put the exact same damn thing down on the same roof that we've had the same issues with? >> Well, I don't I guess I wouldn't say it's the exact same thing. I think the restoration is a different material, but

117even if we go with replacement, you probably still be looking at a DPDM. you could potentially go with like a PVC or a TPO, but I think you, you know, you probably still lean EPDM even if we go to a full replacement. If you >> I don't think it's so much the the EPDM material that is giving the problems. You know, maybe it was workmanship when it went in originally, maintenance, you know, the whole host of different reasons. There's a ton of equipment up there that's been worked on and replaced over the years that could, you know, cause problems and leaks. And I don't think it's it's an EPM material because that's used, you know, worldwide for all over the place. >> So, I guess, you know, one of the questions kind of piggybacked on

118Nick, like even a full replacement for, you know, $2 million more, we still have all the weird angles and all that we'd have to contend with to replace. Like, we can't completely just take the roof off this building, redesign the whole thing. >> No. Okay. >> No. And that's part of There's 21 different what people have been up there. There's 21 different roof sections and there's so many ladders up and down all over the place. So, that's a factor that makes it a little more expensive roof to replace just given the >> geometry of it. >> Part of that 2 million also is when when when we're replacing this when we're only putting the restoration, we can leave it as it is at its current height. And all we're doing is we're adding an inch

119layer on top of it. That's what this layer is doing. If we went full replacement, we're now having to meet today's code. And so now we're going to have to have a little bit higher insulation, a little higher stuff, which means now you're impacting all of the edges. Um, you have on the interior of the building on the inside. Um, let's say this is the roof and then this is like where a window is right now. Well, we need to raise the roof up. we're losing, you know, more and more that we can we may even have to if we do roof replacement, we may even have to raise the window up in that case. Um, so there's it's it's >> so that's part of the two part of the $2 million addit. >> Yes.

120>> Is when you do a full replacement, right, you've got to meet the new stretch energy code. So you're increasing insulation, which is push pushing your your roof closer to your flashing and you want to maintain a minimum of 8 in. you'd really like to have 12 in from your like all your through wall flashing. So now to move your through wall flashing up, you have to start taking out brick masonry because all that flashing is through wall and brick masonry on the building and potentially think around the ratunda area there was some really low windows that >> exactly that's so so that all added insulation the added demolition cost because you know you're removing 90% of another 90% of the roof area. So, you've got to remove and dispose of all the insulation and

121existing materials and then just things like >> and let's just say >> part of that 2.1 million >> uh it was Garland that that looked at it. >> Garland. Yeah. The restoration >> Garland the roof manufacturer looked at it and you know they're they're the ones who have to warranty this thing. So, they're the one came out and said, "Okay, is this roof a good candidate? Is this something that we can warranty for the next 20 30 years?" and they their report is in the in the submission. >> But um uh you know so it is a good candidate for this so that we don't have to do it the other way which we already know with the known issues you know having to raise up windows and and do all this brick through wall

122flashing and raise up the edges of the and and creasing the trim on the on the edge flashings you know. So, >> so is this a restoration of just those areas in red that we saw, but it's the whole >> title? >> Yeah. >> When insulation typically loses its property to insulate. So, that's why we that's why we always the the the um standard practice is to remove that down to deck and put new insulation in it. >> We cover it over with EPDM and then put down this whole. By the way, this is a monolithic coating. Now, this is versus EPDM. It's um heat welded. So there, you know, sections that are heat welded and well, how well does the guy heat weld that? This is literally one monolithic pore. It's a liquid pour

123that's getting put on and then >> um cure. >> Yeah. Seems Yeah. All the red areas would come out and and I think they cut it back a minimum of 12 in beyond, you know, where they find it insulation. And then they check the roof deck and if the roof deck is rotted because it's been wet, that gets replaced before they come through. So, what about, you know, obviously, you know, one of the things we're struggling with is the high cost, but what type of, a lack of a better term, guarantee that this doesn't skyrocket if they find rotten decking or anything like that? Like, is that all all those contingencies built into this? >> Yeah, that would be taken care of as part of the contingency. So, that's a good segue to go to

124the to the end here. What we tried to do here is is recent I'll say recent as people know the accelerated repair program went on pause for a few years. So the top two schools um are two of the latest schools that we did you know the Herbert Clark school in Loc and then um John had the wear on school. So we tried to show here is there's the year this is the size of the schools. This is what the schematic design construction cost was which would correlate with the 8.6 6 million we have for this. So, we're talking apples to apples. This is what the actual construction cost bids came in at. >> And I did, we had another school that we did back in 2021. And when I looked at the three of

125them, when we looked at schematic design cost versus actual cost when we final construction documents, the big costs were about 70% of the schematic design cost because you got to remember we're schematic design now the carrying design contingency all kinds of contingency because we've only done schematic design, conceptual design. There's still, you know, we're 20% of the way there. We need to do another 80% of design to get to construction document. So as you go to 60% your design contingency and the other contingencies will come down. Um so we would expect you know we would expect to see bit cost hopefully you know we 70% of where we are with schematic design costs right now. So that's a good segway of why aren't we showing 70%. Uh this is an MSBA process. This is a

126project and this is not public procurement certainly not uh private residential. Um we got a prevailing wage sl here too. Um but the MSBA they we follow their process in order to get it's the MSBA is a reimbursement program for lack of better words. You know you're um Norton has a 55% reimbursement rate. So um we expect to get you know the the 55% of whatever numbers we're showing um before contingency. Contingency is a separate animal. Um, so but the way the process works is they ask for this number and this scope to uh be presented to them at the schematic design level, not at 100% CDs like we're probably used to. So we still have 3 and 1/2 months of design to and and contingencies to boot to cover those. benefit is also well

127we have the MSVA locked in and agreeing to this this number at this time. So when the costs come in low, we're as they historically have, you know, we're guaranteed. What we're doing is we're also we're trying to fend off against if the number's higher. If we go in with a lower number, well, anything over the number that the MS you agreed with the MSBA, that's 100% on you guys. So if the bid comes in over 200,000 more, that's 200,000. You you don't get the 55% back on that. So >> So if you try to cut it too close and you do run into a situation where you're finding anywhere you slice it, every project has some change orders on it. When you find those things, if it pushes you what you agreed to at

128the beginning with MSBA, they don't reimburse you on that cost. So the trick is to be high enough when you're setting your, you know, initial budget that you don't get caught on on the backside. >> And budget is the key word here. This is this 9.9 this 8.6 is not your final cost. This is your budget. This is what you're bringing. This is primary purpose right now is to greet with the MSBA. This is what they're they're start our starting point that they're um that they're they're going to honor and meet us with, you know, costs up to that point. um we have now like I said the 60% uh you there will be an estimate at the 60% CDs. there'll be a month and a half from now we're going to estimate the project

129again and we're going to you know presumably it will drop and then we have another two months of design and so in midFebruary is when we're going to go out hit the street and get real bids public bids you know low bidder there's nothing there's nothing that's m the way Massachusetts works it's low bid you don't get the job unless you're low bid so um >> so do we so I know we have this number for the MSBA and so on and so forth is there any way the two of you could project and project is a a nice word for guests. Um, what do you think in your professional opinions this final bid might look like? I know it's the whole, you know, the lowest bid, but like what do you think like we're

130at nine some odd million. Do you think it's like 7 million might be the final cost? Is there any way to even think about that? >> I think I'd take that 8.6 and I take 70% of it. But then you'd have to add that's just construction cost. Then you'd have to add in like the design the soft cost >> but that is only 10% of the cost. So 90% is still unknown of this you know >> ask if you did the math7. >> Yeah. >> So I could give you that kind of estimate of it but you wouldn't want to you know sign on the dotted line. >> Exactly. >> No >> because you don't know what change material cost >> labor shortage. It was it was a few years ago with the whole you

131couldn't get insulation for any roofs. >> Yeah. >> You know, material short, all the boats were stuck out. All kinds of things can pop up. They can affect and screw up the project. >> Well, MSBA covered a restoration and a >> or a replacement that we we can and they'll do 50%. >> I don't know if we can pick, but the be >> I would say yes. >> Okay, we can pick yes. who had that option. But again, now we're talking you want to pay. We're pushed for time right now. That's what we're getting at. We've already subdation is the restoration. We haven't said we want we want to do the restoration. I I think >> No, I think we have to the MSBA told them we want to do the restoration. Well, I mean,

132because it's 2.1 cheaper and it meets all of the goals of the of the of the roof, you know. But I wonder like I think the the answer to the question is they'll fund either one of them. >> That's right. >> Right. If you So I think if you were to say, you know what, we don't want to do the restoration. We want to do the full we want to move forward with the full replacement. It may get into some of the things we were talking about this afternoon with MSBA like a delay or or a waiver for because we would have to go back and revise the documents to show full replacement versus >> I mean I think just to be completely honest with you I don't I think a delay is inevitable. Like

133I don't think this project's going through anytime soon for to get this thing done for next summer. Like I just feel like that's kind of where we're at. However, you never know with the people voting. But to me, it's almost worth exploring the idea if you're telling me that number could come in and what the numbers up top of those three other schools came in at. I mean, 7.5 million to 4 million. That's a significant amount of difference that yes, it's adding 2.1 million. However, if we get some experts to know, hey, this would actually be the way to go and replace this whole thing, rip everything out rather than just going over it, you might get a little bit more buy in to be like, hey, this is going to get done and done

134right. We're not just, I hate to say this, putting a band-aid on something that we know is already had a problem. >> Were those replacement areas, the examples you have above, >> were those full roof replacements? Correct. >> They Okay. They weren't restorations. They were >> and to be you know the MSBA only recently they did not allow restorations before this. The MSBA did not. It was not an option. >> They finally woke up and said, "Hey, this is a good thing and we'll be backing." >> Yeah. This is the first year that we've been involved with the program. MSBA said as part of the schematic design, you have to consider restoration and full replacement. >> And to be clear, you know, this is not the first year that it hasn't been done that it's

135been done. No, restoration's been done for 15 20 years. >> Just not on an MSBA project. That wasn't part of their program. So you obviously seem very familiar with MSBA. >> Yes. >> Is there a potential >> that MSBA can do this waves or not? Like would the hypothetically let's just say we did this in over three phases over three years. Not that I want to go down that road, but again thinking of options here of what could happen. Could we do next summer? It's going to cost us 2 million to get on the major red areas where we have internal leaking into cafeterias into gymnasiums. That's phase one. Phase two would be summer of 27 again hypothetically here we hit the next secondary problems phase three this one >> y >> will MSBA like

136they'll build bill break those cost up over a threeyear project >> so we asked that question today >> okay >> um and so >> yes but >> um so what what what we would need to do is we would need to go back to the MSBA and change the scope of our project so we would say we're only going to do the metal roof component. Now, we would need to get a we would need to change that with them, make sure that we were all set and move forward. Then you would need to reapply through the process. Um the next opportunity for you to reapply would be 2027 because they're only going to do the um accelerated repair for windows, doors, and roofs every other year. So then we would go out and say, "Okay,

137now we want to do the EDM, >> whatever." Um, and so then you would do that part separately. I don't, again, not a roofer, and I'll defer to the gentleman here, but I would imagine that if it's the monolithic pore, you probably would not be able to pour certain areas like you you pro I mean, as again, there's 21 different sections of roof. So, you might say, "Hey, we're going to do these 15 this year. We're going to do these, you know, whatever." Um, but it would involve you would need to be accepted into the program multiple times in order to get them to >> do the reimbursement. >> Percentage rate could potentially change each time. >> Correct. >> Will it ever go up? Like hypothetically, if we were like, "Hey, this is a real

138emergency problem here with with these big leagues that we do have." Yep. >> Would them would they come back and say, "Hey, we'll give you 80% for that." That is a problem. It's not that they work. >> It's a set rate for everyone involved in the program in each year. So, every single school that's involved in this 2024 class is the 55.6. >> So, they don't they don't triage? >> No, no, they don't triage. And it's really based on your community and town's economic they have all these factors. So, um basically between 30 and 80%. So if you're going to want to name names, if you're Newton or something like that, you're 30%. If you're somewhere H oil, Lawrence, Fall River, you New Bedford, they're 80%. So you guys are right in the middle. So

139you know, they they have it where it's pretty much equality or whatever. So >> So I wouldn't and I wouldn't think in would change that community wouldn't change that much to affect. So I guess you know the if we do the multiple year that would also if it's every other year so you're talking you know this could be potentially a fiveyear project you'd have to redo this schematic design every time >> which would be an added cost every time >> after that materials go up. >> That's exactly >> it's Yes. We're using a 5%. Oh, sorry. >> And we're chancing even them accepting. >> Agree. And I was on that call. I didn't get the warm and fuzzies from them about like, >> "Oh, yeah. It's just not a problem. You can do that." Like,

140it did not seem like they were very open to >> that. Yeah. Well, actually, partial roof replacement projects for under the accelerated repair, but it started that way like the SOI that went in the school said, "Hey, we've we redid this part of the roof 5 years ago. Now, we want to do this 50,000 square foot piece, >> you know, when it start." So, I think that's the process you would be starting to project. >> If you can imagine, you know, you're having a contractor come in and, you know, um, mobilize and demobilize and mobilize and demo. There's costs associated with that. This project uh the warehouse I noticed there's this is this was done over two summers. This was this had the unfortunate um you know they they submitted and said the roof was

14120 years old and and then when they went when they went and checked the documents like well only a only um two/3 of it was 20 years old and the the other third was like 18 or whatever it just didn't fit. And so the MSBA said well we'll reimburse you on the 2/3 but not the oneird. Guess which side leaked? The one-/3. And so the town, well, they had to get that done. But and they had this large number. They had, you know, this large number. It was like 8.6 total project budget. And they were concerned. And so, you know, presenting that and so they did split it up, but it was now they had, you know, it was over two summers. And so, while yes, it's cheaper here, they were still spending more cuz,

142you know, they had them come in do one/ird one summer. He had the OPM and the designer there for one summer. They had him there another year, us being there for another year. That's additional cost. And then he had the, you know, the contractor coming back. Thank goodness we had the same contractor. He won the low bid twice. You know, he he that was we got lucky there. >> I still don't know how you got that big price. >> Yeah, I know. Yeah. >> But in in terms of that big price, someone pointed to that as a one thing to note where didn't have metal. the thing here that we got we got the metal full replacement on the metal roof which is roof didn't have as many sections didn't have the rotunda you know

143>> what is the um warranty cost on the replacement warranty timeline for the metal itself >> because we're saying 20 year for a restoration >> I would say on the yeah I don't know the exact answer it's at least 25 years it could be higher >> it's usually longer than than roof than rubber >> so we have two warranties on just the different sections. >> Yeah, you probably >> I was going to say and the metal is our biggest problem, >> right? >> And that was the thing that they solved. I mean, I think you guys looked at this. Matt did um just >> the way those the way it was installed, the joints, you know, while they've come up with better systems now, like a triple joining or something. I I can't describe it

144fully, but what you're getting put back is not the same metal roof. It's >> how you attach your snow guards and things like that. penetration system. >> Can we go to the moisture survey? >> Y >> Okay, guys. >> As we go back to that short, you know, if we think about splitting this project up like which I mean, it sounds like that's probably not the most feasible option. They'll spread it out. But looking at this like we don't really have like an extensive problem there. It looks like there's multip like if we do section one it only helps a little bit like it doesn't have like a larger city. >> You got problems all over the place and this doesn't include like the ones your survey wasn't done on the obviously it was just

145on the EPDM areas. >> So that you know so it doesn't show the leaks in the >> So that's why you're not seeing the leaks in the cafeteria that exist. Thank you >> because I'm like why? Yeah, that makes sense. >> Yeah. Real quick, if we can explain it, it really is they call infrared, but um it's the the heat >> you're not heat. >> And so you can see the bright red spots. They they come in right at night. So like the temperature changes different. >> You can't get that with the metal. So the so the gray is the metal roof. Correct. All this in the front. The white is wondering why we were not seeing the leak. >> So Jen, to your point, the metal roof is giving us more problems. Yeah. Yeah.

146>> What's the What's the solar pan? >> When did those go on? >> Wait here. >> They weren't around the building was 1998. >> 98. >> Yeah. And it's been recommended that there moved. Correct. >> Correct. >> Thank you. So I guess you know another kind of major question here we talked we learned this last week the company that did this roof is no longer and was no longer in business shortly after they did this roof are these companies or these materials like they've been around they're hopefully going to be around like not that danger again that >> you know your shoving company >> is going out of business after they do this. Yeah, that's a great question. And the way the mark the way the industry works is that you have um a roofing

147manufacturer, the Garland, the Chemco, a Carile, uh John's Mansville, they're the ones who are actually warrant warrantying it for the long haul. they're warranting their materials and the and the craftsmanship. The installer guy who went out of business, um he has usually we typically require a 2-year workmanship warranty um that we that he's on the hook for, but that's kind of like um in addition to the >> within those two years, if you find these or like flashing, right, they have to come back. >> So, you are covered for those 30 years by the manufacturer by in this case it would be Garmin. >> Yeah. Um and they'll call you call them up. They'll call up whoever is there. >> Well, it could be your because >> that's true and three options. I think >>

148fire. >> Hi. Okay. So, I got this packet from our last meeting. I don't know if you have this because I have several questions off this. >> She created it. >> This is the >> from August 28, 2025. >> Yeah, that's our schematic design. Okay. Well, we we can speak to it. Yeah. >> Okay. So, um my first question is um so again it's specific to certain pages. So, uh 1.7 at the beginning um is the HVAC assessment of the equipment summary. >> Yep. >> Um and you had listed here what was considered poor, fair, good. Um and then on um and then later on it was discussed about replacing um five of them. It was suggested of of the ones that were listed here. So, but it didn't. Yeah. Okay. Um 1-17. It says

149they sell five new exhaust fans and equipment carbs. So, which five? The ones that were rated as poor. >> The oldest ones. Which which five were you looking at? >> I'd have to I'd have to look at it and and look at the plan to check the numbers. But in general, I would say the ones that have either failed and weren't working or poor condition. >> Okay. So, not based off of H. So probably I wouldn't say based off of age. I think it was ones that weren't working or were in poor condition for >> So because the ones that were mostly rated as poor, they're dated 2022. So now that means that we're sitting on these 1997 ones that >> No, that's that's not accurate because Wade and I had this conversation as well.

150>> Um and I don't want to give exact. So I said the same thing to Wade. I'm like if they we just replace these in 2022, why in the world are they being rated for? >> Yes. Um, and my understanding, and wait, please jump in if I'm wrong, the something itself was replaced, but there is still a component of it or it was um, do you remember what I'm talking about? >> I see it. >> Shaking. >> Yeah. Um, because it was it was HVAC something from 1997 and I was like, okay, well, if that one's fine, but the 2022 one is not, I had significant concerns about that. This one's been trade, >> correct? any exhaust fan. I don't think they that >> so I think that's maybe what the conversation was the unit

151itself was replaced but the exhaust van connected to it was still from 1997. Does that >> correct? We've upgraded our controls over there on all units but train but not exhaust. >> Okay. So the exhaust are considered still 97. Yeah. So that 2022 is not accurate. >> Okay. And I could I could get you know as part of this process our mechanical engineers come out and visit the site and go through the evaluation of all that. So I can get you further information on that too if you have questions that I can't answer. >> Yeah. Great. Thank you. Um so then my next question was um there was testing done um regarding the air flow and the air quality. So but then it states on-7 rebalancing system to match pre-existing air flows. But um if

152the air flow was rated and considered as poor, why would we want to restore? We want to balance. >> I think they would they you go you check the units, they check the air flow, they check what the original air flow is supposed to be like based on the design of the unit. Yeah. >> That gets recorded. The units get taken off. When all the units go back on as part of a project, the mechanical contractor has to go back and balance. >> Okay. and the balance will occur. That's just they're going to go back to the poor quality that was >> No, that's the intent is that when they go back up, the whole system is rebalanced. >> Okay. >> Um and then page three of appendix A um 1.1 the assumptions. Um we

153have a confirmation on those assumptions. So the report was prepared under the following assumptions. If any of these assumptions are inaccurate, JSCE should be notified so that the report can be updated to reflect actual conditions. So is that confirmation >> which part of the JSC which part of the is that still the mechanical? >> So it's >> this is part of the code >> report. Mhm. >> Uh outstanding code violations on file with the city of Norton inspectional services. Um, accessibility complaints, construction costs not exceed. I can say that one is correct. >> Okay. >> Um, so I can verify looking at them. I would say that that those assumptions are still correct, but I could verify. >> Yeah, you could verify those. >> And I would like to maybe reiterate, especially with something like

154that, that is a schematic design. Again, we're not 100% CD. these things would be um fleshed out as we continue on. So >> and then >> it is expected you know to be at this level those level of assumptions >> and then on page five appendix A says level one alterations required to maintain the level of safety provided by the existing conditions. Will this if we decided to go with the overlay restoration >> Yep. Is it does it fall under that level one? Um >> yes, level one restoration. Yep. Okay. >> Um also on five under 5.1, re-roofing the installation of a new roof covering over an existing roof covering is permitted and they should occur. So yeah, we anticipate. >> Okay. I I I think I that question I was going to say actually

155section for sure. Yeah, that's been answered >> there and looked at those and thought, "Yeah, we need all those for the for the regroofing if we want to do the restoration." >> Um, do we have a concern in terms of current air quality and safety in the building regarding any mold that could potentially be in there due to all of this leakage and retention of this water in the insulation? Don't know if I can answer that question. It's outside the purview. >> That's outside. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Thanks. We have no car issues over there at the moment. Um job tape there. I did order some air quality mode tests that that we done over there this week. >> Results back on those next week. Great. We usually rotate and try to get a school

156in here. We pick five six locations. Um just just Okay. So those are done last week. >> Great. Thank you so much. Um and then I I think my last thing was just which this is very up in the air because we're talking about potential different projects and and ideas. It's it's you know the we know how these projects go. Um once we finally have settled on something and we are given a timeline, what kind of guarantee do you offer regarding staying within within that timeline or deviating off of that timeline? Especially because it's a functioning school and a working you know environment like so if you're saying yes we will have part A of this project done by um because in here the timeline the the the timeline in here which I know is

157just um theoretical said that you know you have X Y and Z done by 8:31 like you guaranteeing that is that maybe like how solid are your timelines when you do create them? I would say like on the design side of things, what we control, those are are pretty solid. You know, we usually have enough time in the in the schedule to hit our design, you know, and when we want to get out to bid and get contractor bids and things barring any crazy situation in terms of the actual construction, you know, the there's a schedule that's given to the contractor that the contractor bids on that he has to meet and the contract will include liquidated damages. >> Yeah. you know, if they don't meet that schedule, I'd be lying if I stood here

158and said like every single project we've done, these these summer slammers are perfect on August 31st. >> There have been some where find like an unforeseen condition or something changes and it delays the the project and so you can't liquidated damages built into >> there is liquidated damages. You know, it's as the OPM it's it's typically my job to manage the schedule and you know I've been doing 30 of these accelerated repairs. I'm very familiar as you've been doing probably as many. >> Yeah. >> These we we know the summer, you know, it's 44 working days. So, we're we're very >> Yeah. >> We're on top of it. And uh >> the trick is staying on it because on a lot of schools I've worked on the contractor ends up having to work at night

159and double shifts and work weekend to try to >> We pull all the levers. Yeah. Exactly. You do. So, we we know that school is not moving. It's September. It's a day after Labor Day and teachers come back the week before and so um you know this is a roof but >> I guess that's the other question I was kind of thinking about is as we as these timelines are in place like we know like teachers are here a week before not necessarily students but is this work like are we at a point in the work schedule like you know August 31st where we could still have the building occupied and they could still be working like it's not like a safety issue or anything like that. >> Yes, there's usually an overlap with the

160with Exactly. Especially with the the MSBA program, if you remember, it's it's not just roofs, it's also doors and windows. It used to be >> we had one of those a few years back. >> Exactly. So, you know, certainly you can imagine windows would be far more invasive if teacher was trying to set up her classroom and working in the windows. Yeah. That just doesn't doesn't fly. being on the roof, you know, that's that's quite separated, you know, and considering that this is a roof restoration, you're not dealing with what we call rip and replace that you're not going all the way down to the deck, getting up all that insulation, >> um, and and putting it back down. So, um, it should be far less, you know, noise, you know, the the >> a

161lot less lifting materials on and off the roof. I think where we where they where some of them have run over for whatever reason, you know, thankfully a lot of times the main roofing is done and they're just working on like edge metal and edge trim and things and we can kind of move them around to different areas to stay on people's way. >> Another thing to to think about is, you know, this, like I said, this was 1998. That was 27 years ago. 28 years ago. >> 27 years ago. >> Thank you. Um, whereas we normally deal with schools built in the 70s, built in the 50s. So, you know, so insulation from 30 years ago on this roof is really not that bad and it should be meeting the stand the energy code

162standards far closer than a school from the '7s. So, that's why we're that's another factor why we're leaning towards restoration being a good option because insulation up there. I mean, yes, the wet stuff is good, but you know, 10% while you saw a lot of red, it really was only 10%. Why would you if you're doing resment, you're pulling up all of that insulation, you know, putting it all that that takes time on my 44 days that I only got. Um, so anyway, >> you actually got to my next question. So, we have 7,132 ft, which is 9.4% of the roof areas were identified to have wet insulation present. Next bullet point. Industry standard is maximum 25 wet to qualify for restoration. So why I mean that's that's almost you know call it 15%. I

163know we have problems here but like why why are we qualifying for restoration? >> I think the way that's read is 25 maximum. So we're under that threshold. Like if you had a school that was 30% wet that would not it wouldn't be worth it at that point. They said take the whole pick the whole thing off. >> And that also doesn't is that percentage that doesn't include the metal >> right? does not include the >> right. So it could be like is that does that metal get put into the assessment once it starts to start pulling up? >> No, because we're considering we're the metal is going to be full replacement, >> right? Okay. This is just for the because the restoration can only happen on >> um and then the the one other

164little piece was and I again I think Christine confirms this for me but I just want to put out there anyway the contingency in here is awfully close based on the percentage of cost of the building to the cost of the replacement minus not including the asbestous assessment which obviously that that that 200,000 should get rolled into with that 500 correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, it's a it's a slightly higher contingency. It's it's a little bit better than what the original schematics is. Great. >> All right. That was it. I'm done. Thank you. >> Any other questions, comments? >> Oh, I saw you still. I just didn't want to cut you off before you got to the end. >> I just We thought this was telling. I mean, you know, we've all had well

165had the pleasure of having our rules done in Massachusetts. Prevailing wage is the requirement. They they we have to meet the union standards. That's basically what it comes to. And uh and so that's that's the follows. And that's that's a high cost. So just try not to if you're talking to your neighbors, you know, I just got my roof done for X. Well, it's not a public job that's getting done. Um and I think one final thing here since we're since we're here the MSPing process. So here was that 9.4 again this is I'm exclude already told you a little bit about excluding contingency. This is basically what they're agreeing to in terms of cost. That's what I'm trying to say. This is now we're getting into the MSB and what they're willing to reimburse.

166Um this is almost I don't want to say guaranteed but almost guaranteed. And so they're saying estimated max 5.2 is what they're so town share. You subtract the two. That's what it would be. Um then they have this whole block down here because they treat the contingency use separate. Why? Because you can have you can have an owner that goes spend heavy bill. Hey, let me let me let me fix the building while we're here and and owner changes and and the MSB won't participate because that's beyond the scope that they agreed to way back in September. um you know and so but if there wasn't if there was an unforeseen condition they would participate in that. So I just I leave this I advise my clients you know don't look at this you know

167it's a little bit of a higher number but don't expect it and again these numbers these are maximums we you know this is as if you spend out every dollar on the project we magically you know all of our contracts equal 9.4 they would share 5.2 too. Coming in at seven, this is going to drop too, but so is also your town share as well. Any questions on that? >> We'll caveat that with unless the owner decides they want to add a whole bunch of things >> because we have that where it's like, hey, you know what? They look at these bathrooms. >> Yeah. And that's >> so in your expert opinion if you say it's 70% that town share >> is probably more around 3 million than it is 4.2 I can't do the

168math, but that >> you're saying if the >> Yeah. I mean, yeah. >> Well, we can't guarantee that. We can't, you know what I mean? That's where it's >> based on experience with previous projects that I looked at. >> And based on experience, we've never been Yeah. Yeah. that high of this number. This number is again, it's not the construction cost. just it's the budget number we're agreeing with the MSBA on and then we're and then then it goes to the market then it goes to Capeway whoever you know the roofers >> now do you see like obviously you know it's just about the end of September this goes out to bid probably February do you anticipate marketable changing costs those four months >> not not that we've seen it's a great question um had

169you asked that new co we we were pat I was calling up the insulation manufacturer myself and just can you guarantee us we're going to get this this summer um but no we haven't had that in a while we're pretty stable in terms of materials >> unless something goes completely sideways >> the administration or something >> all these tariffs I don't think I don't think we've seen it have a dramatic effect on it on on our costs if they are that they're built into the cost estimate you know our cost estimators on top of that stuff so um But uh you had another question. Um >> I think tariffs aren't built into it just to make sure that >> No, no, no. >> I think there's a caveat at the end says it doesn't or

170one of the first sheets it says it doesn't include impact pay because they can't because they can't. >> No, that's what I'm saying. I'm just saying we haven't seen >> it's built into I would >> the biders cost. >> Yeah. But I would say it's built into the contingency that they've cared, right? >> You know what I mean? Even though they're saying that it's not in the Okay, lost my train of thoughts. >> Sorry. >> Anything else? >> Thank you for your time. >> If you have any other questions, I think you can reach out to John and pass them along. >> Like I said, you'll get that. I will look Yeah. the assumptions. Um, >> no. I think that maybe the other thing that was important with the MSBA call today is we talked

171about the solar component. Um, so MSBA requires all projects that come through now to have a solar ready component of the area. So, um, the gym roof is already solar ready. So what we did is we confirm with them that as long it is at we update anything that's there if you had to like make sure like replace a switch or you know cap things off that would still be considered solar ready and it would be a minimal cost to us over and above anything that we might need to do versus needing to create a new solar ready space. Um we do not have to do that which is actually a huge win. >> That's for us. It was it was a great win for us. >> It was a great win for us. how

172we were a little bit. >> Even if the solar system doesn't work, >> we it's removing the panels. >> Yes. But >> just means the thing is >> 10, 15, 30. >> So, you know, 25 years from now, if somebody else decides they want to put um solar panels on the on the middle school roof because they haven't heard from us what a bad idea it was initially, then >> they could potentially do that. >> And I'll be counting on those of you who are still around to remind them. Thanks to your dear feather in your I mean the the car canopies both at the high school and at the middle school the the solar canopies I mean you're not against solar it's just uh yeah roof >> exactly >> where they leak and it's

173not just you I'm sorry it was like in the space of you know like like a week after these conversations I had another district asking me that put a we built a brand new elementary school in 2015 it had code requires it to be solar ready for new construction. So now they're forcing it the MSBA is asking um these renovation projects to have it. All right. But yeah, and so they installed like 2 years later the the panels and and so that was 2016 and 20 2025 they're calling me like hey you haven't filed the warranty or you know or the and so because they're leaking out the solar panels that they installed. So it's not just you. >> Thank you. Yep. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. >> So, we have a placeholder warrant um

174for town meeting on 20th um which includes you know the 9.9 which was the really top um budget. Um, and so what would need to happen is honestly my recommendation would be that we make a little bit more of a presentation to the community. Um, talk through the issues that we have at Norton Middle School, talk through the cost we can run through. Um, while yes, we're showing you this 9.9 number. This is what the town share would be on that number. And again, have not gone on to bid. Hopefully, it would be lower. Um, and then you would move forward from there. If the committee feels like we aren't ready to do that in October, then we would have a conversation about it. We would go to the MSBA and ask for an extension.

175Um the other thing I shared with you guys tonight is a little bit more of a detailed timeline. Um we found this week um two massive massive boxes in a closet um that were just titled Norton Middle School roof leaks. um and spent some time going through those and and trying to put together >> damaged. >> They were actually only one box was a little bit water damaged. Um >> and so we tried spent a lot of time going through those and trying to put together a little bit more of a comprehensive timeline for you. So, um, school opened door its doors on, uh, September 9th of 1998, and by January, we already had, um, consistent communication between Norton Public Schools, the GC, and the roofing company. Um, they began an an investigation in uh,

176February of 99 as to why the leaks were taking place. Um and then in the spring of 99 um there was a meeting to discuss discuss corrective work. And what was um what was found was that um the flashing that was installed um and that the the the masonry work around the the um key entry points was not done to code spec not done to specifications set out in the design plan. And so that began in April of 1989. >> So yeah, sorry. 99. Thank you. >> Say that. >> 1999. Um and so while um you know the building had not even been open really for for 6 months when we were already having these issues. So, I I think going through all of this work and Wade and Christine and I sat and we

177looked at a lot of documents. Um the sheer amount of communication between the schools um the you know the general contractor, the um Firestone who was the um manufacturer of of the roof, the roofer themselves. um the amount of lawsuits and legal um cases that were um also a part of it. Um there was, you know, between the general contractor and the roofers, between the general contractor um and the uh masons. It was it was really um very weedy and trying to kind of get um a good understanding of exactly what happened. Um, so this is gives you a little bit more information. Um, February of 21, basically Firestone communicate communicated to to Norton that the warranty would not be in place until they got their remaining payment from the general contractor. General contractor was

178holding back funds because of the leaks. Um, and then right underneath that says 2011, but that should say um 21 um 2001. Um there was at that point work had been done but it still wasn't done correctly and so um you know all of these things that were really really challenging. Um, in October of 2006, there was um, a consultant came out and take a look at all the repairs that were done. And there was a recommendation to put forward a warrant in the town meeting to um, get design services to study and prep a bid for repairs. Um, we went through the RFP process in January of 27. I found um Oldtown meeting warrant from uh February of 2007 with that um allocated $24,000 for engineering and design of Norton Middle School roof. I

179can't find any documentation as to what actually occurred with that. Um it does look like there was some water um waterproofing that was done um by CH Chapman waterproofing in the spring of ' 07. Um, and then literally from 2001 to 2013, there are probably anywhere between 8 to um maybe 6 to 12 communications between Norton Public Schools and Firestone, the brand manufacturer, every single year looking to use the warranty that we had to come out for roof repair. So, it has been one giant mess from day one. Um, I also noted, you know, just money that we put towards roofing repairs just in these last couple years. Um, 2017 we did a big um, you know, patch to the metal portion of the cafeteria roof so that way um, we could stop those leaks.

180It did work for a few years and now we're we're it's starting to um, to fail again. So, um, I think you have all heard me say this before. We are paying the price of those who came before us. Um and and I have to say there is a huge amount of documentation from you know all the way back to Dr. Deora was many superintendents ago before me. Um really trying to get people hold people accountable to the work that was not done properly and and here we are all these years later. Um, >> was MSBA involved in the building of the middle school? >> Not at the time. However, they did give grants to districts that were still paying down their debt from building projects. So, we actually have um a letter that I

181found from I believe it was 2011 where we received about $9 million to help us pay off the middle school itself. So, that was something I I pulled up and was able and I found in our files um which I was surprised that I didn't recollect and again I wasn't here in 1998 when the project was happening. Um but yeah so >> I ask is and are they are they made were they made aware of the history of >> so because the project didn't go through them initially it was like our own project so >> so we can't really >> no and and it's um we held a lot of money back from the from like our retainage so we held money back and then the general contractor held money back from the subcontractors um

182and it ended up in a lawsuit. We as a town ended up paying out $60,000 in April of 2003 um to pay for the remaining work that was done through a settlement agreement. Um and so um it's not a full picture, but I think it's definitely more of a picture than I think what we've seen in the past. Um, we can't find any documentation on um the holes that were drilled into the metal roof. We can't find a work order for that. We can't we can't find anything that surrounds that or any information about that metal roof, the warranty um being voided at that time. Um, but we just found those boxes. So, it makes me wonder if there are other boxes out there that potentially may have um more information for us. It's definitely

183a good advertisement as to why going digital is is the way to go in the future. >> Plus, plus old news is that I found this when Nordon hired a consultant inspect school that was July 16th, 1998, 27 years ago. >> All right. So, we've been having this conversation for a long time. So I guess my kind of overarching question is if we go to town meeting, you know, before we decide that we can get an extension for the spring, that obviously pushes back the timeline till next summer, but I'm sure they can't get it done. >> We would be looking at summer of 27 versus summer of 26. So how does that affect the the MSBA or any of the other or is it just more will the MSBA think they would grant an

184extension if we say well we need to wait till then I'll be need to wait till spring down meeting or >> so the guidelines around securing funding is that you are supposed to have your funding set within 90 days of it being approved at their board. So, we are currently scheduled to be on their board approval for October 28th, which if we were to do the October town meeting, then that's we're good, right? Um, what we could do is we could ask for an extension. There's no guarantee they would grant it. Um, and see if they would allow us to go to May. Um, I think it might be worthwhile to perhaps see if maybe one or two people from the committee is willing to sit down with Christine and Wade and I and figure

185out what questions do we still have? What concerns are still out there and you know decide are we going to present if we are going to present how can we do it in a way where I'm presenting perhaps somebody from school committee is standing up there with me and saying these are the things that need to happen. Um this is a lot of I think I mean obviously not doing the roof isn't an option. >> I mean the the second you know letting it leak is not is not the backup choice here. Um so we need to figure out exactly what can we do as a school community. I know there was talk about um us going out to bid on our own. I think the important thing for us to know is that we

186would need to engage another contractor, go through a schematic design, have that person write up a bid for us because we couldn't use the work that was just done through the AG like Christine called the AG to figure out like could we take what has already been done? We paid for it like don't we own it? >> No, because it's goes through >> because it's there intellectual. >> Exactly. So those are some things for us to to talk about. Um we can do that here as a full group or we could you know think about it and get our thoughts together and um it's it's really up to committee. >> Um has been an assessment done of the structural integrity of the roof with all of the water damage and the leaking? Like if we

187got in theory a very heavy snowy winter like are we going to have a situation like that happened that's I forget where the school was where the whole thing went from >> well there was the Bridgewater one that happened like 10 years ago but like there was some one recently this past winter where like the whole thing collapsed like in there was a picture of it just flipped into the classroom. I'll defer to wait on that. But >> the winter we had was 2015. Then >> 2015 like 10 years ago the Bridgewater. >> Yeah, that was Yeah. Yeah. My friend school at work. Obviously >> there's no structural damage over there designing something like that. Again, it's not falling away. >> Right. And that's why I'm asking is again that was 10 years ago. So

188now this roof is 10 years older and if we got a winter like 2015 again like are we is that you know it's it's one of those things where I feel like people are going to ask like how pressing you know because we are talking a high monetary number here any basically like I feel as if it's like unless the roof's going to fall on them. We're not going to pay. So, I'm just I'm just theorizing and being realistic. >> Yeah. I I think um I I think structurally we're we're in a good place. I think um this slide here was interesting to me when we were talking through it with them earlier this afternoon. Um because I said, "Okay, like this Wayland school is half the size of us, the 44,000 square ft. I

189think we're like 78 or something like that on on this rubber EBDM roof. Sorry, I have such a mental loss at that. Um, and you look that's 2 million. That's a huge difference between 2 million and 9 million. >> It's 5 years ago. And I think that's the other concern that I have. It it's just like paving that um exit out in front of the middle school. you know, what started at, you know, $40,000 is now up to $77,000 in a short period of time. >> Yes, the market rises and falls. We know we we are all paying more for things right now. I I don't know what it's going to look like in two or three or four years. And I there's no guarantee that it's going to be less money and there and

190there's no guarantee that it's going to be more. And that's the thing that's >> I mean it's right I mean >> it's definitely going to be a long >> and and that's I mean it's such a Norton thing to do is to say hey we can't afford it right now and then we come back later and it's even more money than it was initially. >> The issue is is town meeting is only going to be able to give whatever we have. We don't have that money at town. >> Yeah. >> So the issue is is okay if we go forward with the project someone says all right I'm going to make a motion to give $4.2 2 million school to fix their roof. Where is the $4 million coming from all the departments? >> So,

191but we can vote to borrow at town meeting. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> Not necessarily. I'm not talking about like a debt exclusion, but we could vote to borrow, which I think is what I think. >> Yeah. Right. I mean, they would have to decide if we're going to borrow, but >> and like that's my thing. So, I I I don't know. I don't I the the problem is I I feel like no one really knows what could I think everyone agrees that we can't just let the roof keep leaking. >> That's not agrees. >> That's a like that is ultimately what we don't want to do. But at the same point is is the town I don't think has $4.2 million laying around that they can give to this project at the current moment.

192So therefore, in order to get any money, it's either borrowing it or through a debt exclusion. I can't find a DEX solution in a town meeting in October. >> So, I don't know what October is looking like. I just feel like I can't see I don't know. I just I just don't see it any scenario in October that the town's going to say, "Oh, okay." So, with sorry, with the MSBA extension, are we anticipating it would everything would stay the same 55% and all that? >> Yes. >> Okay. that would all stay the same as long as we got it voted in like this fiscal year. >> I don't I don't see and again you could be wrong. I just don't see the MSBA saying no >> to a roof that isn't leaking. >> No,

193I'm not saying they're going to say no. I'm just saying I don't He already said yes. So if we say, "Hey, this is what our plan's going to be." I don't see them being like, "Well, hold on. We going to give you that money, but you guys can't get your stuff together." We're >> maybe I'm wrong. I just >> unless they, you know, Well, we have six other projects coming up now. Sorry. You've had your chance. >> I don't that. >> So, um, but Justin was there as well. They were not in favor of that. So, I agree. I don't think that they were going to. Um, she was like, "You could." I mean, they're very lenient where they've helped us out with just paperwork that we were trying to work through. They're like, "Oh

194my god, it said it's due January 31st." They're like it's okay just get it to us by the following. So I do think there leniency there. I think us talking to her about the whole hesitation of the town funding the project in general is why they seem warm and fuzzy, >> right? Because what's going to stop them five six months from now, right? >> What's going to change the mind, >> right? And then when it comes to their with the town borrowing, um, as James has said to Fincom, they it would be how much we would have to pay on interest. with the Excel typically with the MSB and projects you're not just you're not going to borrow like even with the train then just borrow the 12 million they borrowed at the stages um

195because it's accelerated it's a little more difficult because he would have to borrow most of it up front so most of the money that's been burst would have to be the $4 million but we'd only have to initially pay on the interest which is where that 400,000 that you're right would be taken out of >> correct the other thing is that I am presenting this to finance committee on Monday night the 29th. >> This has been presented. >> So we may have a better understanding of where they're at and what their thought process is after Monday night which would give us a little bit more guidance if yes, we want to continue to go through with this or we want to hold and um do it in the spring. >> And then I think my

196last and final question, this all went wrong, right? No one no one on here say it's not going to go wrong next. >> No one on here is a roofing expert. I don't expect our administration who are trying to administrators who are trying to teach children be experts in putting in roofs. When this when this goes to bid we have a company come out and says we can do it for $4 million. who in this town is going to say this looks good and we're not dealing with this exact same problem the two guys >> that's why you have the OPM >> right with the exception of the fact you have the MSBA involved think that adds a little bit more clout to it that's why I asked >> but how did this all happen

197>> because we didn't have the >> because it wasn't MSBA >> it was it was independently >> and it was no one oversaw the project >> so we the town at that time hired a clerk of the works >> who was So it just sounds the clerk. >> So it was basically like an it it's it's very typical. It's basically like you're hiring your own owner's project manager. 1998 was called clerk of the works and that person oversaw all aspects of this project. And so I mean we found Wade please >> as well as your local inspectors. So to Nick Vick's point our local inspectors were on on this job as well and they they oversee that branch as well. our local building inspector signed off on a middle school one or another. But to

198your point, he's not a roofing engineer. He's not a roofing expert. So that's why you hire a clerk or your role will hire his own look. You saw these on site every day taking pictures. When we did this project as well as the JCS group, they're there every day, all day long, while the work's being done, taking pictures, reporting back to the owner what they're seeing, what's going on, reporting back to the town what's happening, what's going on. So inspectors do get all there. Yeah, they're kind of up to speed on things. So if I could just say one more thing about St. manufacturer, they they they stood by their warranty. We had them out to over 25 times that roof. They they w that roof was warranted for 15 years. They stood by that.

199The roof that was not warranted was metal roof. That's because of the work that was done before any of us got here and that's what avoiding the the metal roof working but the rubber roof itself has had plenty of work done on it and fire is just a manufacturer they recommend we had sky capeway out there we had marshals out there we had roofen out there we've had plenty of work done on that center years did take care of so don't feel like we got shafted when it came to the warranty. Our roof was taking care of the metal, >> but the the rubber roof was taken care of. It was still leaking. >> So to his point today, so our rubber roof, if any of you have been on one, it's through the years,

200every time you walk on that roof and we have to walk on this roof to change filters. We have to work work on this roof and we change motor, you you have you have people on there all day long walking over and there's rivets that eventually pop through. There's like sauce food is going to fall off that that rip the roof that you can't go back. When you have a flat roof like this, you have so much equipment behind your roof. If you do, you have to get up there to service those equipment. So every time you go out there, >> every time you stop cold, we have engineers tell us brand new, but we haven't. We have the shovels shut here on the roof. So it's leaves are not they're not they're not great

201but they serve a purpose forunately. We got I don't think we're lucky to get as many years out of school as we >> get any we've done a really good job and and since since 2015 since I've been here we've done a really good job and they made sure that people stay off the roof that that don't need to be on the roof. We're only updating when we need to be updated and and I think uh the middle school to to your quality portion when we remove the rugs that was one of the biggest things was creating a lot of those ones that certainly help a lot too. So it's just on its falls on my death again if that's the decision they make and you guys make sure and then we will not >>

202um just sorry Just another mention. So the second page of the information I share with you tonight, this is from our report in February 1999. And it talks about like the the primary reasons that we were having the leaks that we work. And it's the things that we're always talking about. It's, you know, the the metal gable roofs. It's the sloping of some areas of of the roof itself, the elevation changes. There's so many different levels of roofing over there. Um and then the last page in there, this is the report um from 2006 with the consultant came out and gave it to the superintendent at that time. Um also talks about, you know, some of the reason the flashing that wasn't installed properly, the waterproofing that was not installed continuously or properly. Um so

203theoretically, you know, getting getting this roof done, we'll be able to fix those issues at the same time. I'm going to be able again, not a roofing expert, but um >> I just can't understand how they weren't held accountable for this, how this was okay. >> Well, and boxes and boxes and boxes of documentation of the back and forth and the saying we're not going to pay for this and we're holding this money. >> Then what what's the point of the warranty? >> And it's so >> I think the primary issue that we discovered when we were kind of going through the documents, it wasn't necessarily the roof itself that was false. It was the workmanship, right, that was it was improperly installed. >> So why that wasn't why there wasn't accountability there, I just

204don't understand. >> Um any other business or issues? Any other plan? I think you really have to see what >> recommends. It's got to come down >> and we don't control the money. >> You know, there has to be solutions in place with the other boards that say if it's this, then we do this. I mean, maybe some sort of community forum presentation for this is is in order. And personally, I think that we can have them come back out on Monday night and walk through the roof, but I quite honestly feel like it's going to be better coming from us and saying like cuz I think we know the people at finance committee. I think finance committee knows us and and trusts us perhaps a little bit more than somebody coming in from the

205outside. Um, >> correct. Right. That's >> Yeah. So, I'm not Yeah. No. So, well, I'll put some slides together and I'll share it with all of you and we can talk about what else we want to include and and we'll see what they say and then we'll make our decision at that point. >> When when's that time meeting? >> Monday 7 o'clock. >> Thank you. >> Town hall. >> Well, we can only have two members. >> Well, you can't all debate. We just can't talk, right? Yeah, it's a res. >> Yep. Back in July 199. So back in July 199 before the middle school was open, it was still leaping and leaping and leaping and leaping and 27 years later it's still welcome to my life. Peter, you got to figure this out. Any other

206business to present? >> Uh I just have um it's been a little chatter I've noticed recently about negotiations. So, I just wanted to make a little blanket statement. Um, the Norton School Committee understands that our community has questions about the ongoing contract negotiations. We encourage everyone to ask questions and seek clear and accurate information regarding current negotiation sessions. The committee will always and continues to bargain in good faith with a goal of reaching a fair agreement. While differences remain, I want to assure everyone that the school committee will continue to focus on student learning and hope to have negotiations completed soon. The school committee values the commitment of our teachers and the trust of our families and we remain dedicated to working toward a resolution. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Anything else? >> Entertain a

207motion prepared. So guys, >> in favor >> I >> thank you. Have a great night.