School Committee Meeting 10/28/25

001Okay, it's October 28th. This is the Shasheen Valley Regional Vocational Technical School District School Committee. Uh, everyone on the school committee except for Miss Gillis is here and pledge of allegiance. Stacy [clears throat] to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> No one has signed up for public comment. Student representative. We have a new student representative. >> Hello. It's my pleasure to introduce McKenzie Miller. Uh McKenzie is a grade 11 metal fab student and is also part of our skills USA leadership team. So Mackenzie, I will turn it over to you and the floor is yours. >> Thank you so much, Mr. McIntosh. So like Mr. McIntosh said, I'm a junior. I'm in metal

002fabrication in joining technologies here at Shasheen. I'm in the Skills USA program and I serve as the secretary last year and currently this year. Next year I'll be running for president if possible. And I'm also running for state leader. So I will be running for the secretary position as a state officer in the Massachusetts district. And I just wanted to talk a little bit about some of the stuff that we have going on right now. So the school um Skills USA is actually working on a holiday party as we did last year. We are working with the state officers right now and we're doing a holiday party for the House of Hope in Lel. that is a domestic violence house and we provide the kids and some of the adults with the experience they might

003not be able to have elsewhere or with their families and we have Mr. Francis actually come in one of our automotive teachers as Santa on the fire truck with the Bara Police Department and we hand out presents and it's the most amazing time and I I'm so honored that I get to sit here and tell you guys all about it. It's something I'm very passionate about. As well as the toys for tots working with the Bora Police Department. Last year we collected 314 toys as a school. The teachers donate, the students donate. It's such an amazing opportunity that everyone at Shasheen can come together and just donate their time and their effort and their money to do something bigger. And I would like I would really love for the committee to become one with Skills

004USA. Not just because I'm on the team, it's because we do so many great things for the like the five sending towns that we have and especially for the state. It I just think it's we're so blessed really as a school to have such an amazing leadership team as well as um our spirit week and our prep rally. Last week we had a really good spirit week and all the kids participated. We had people come in in bald caps, wigs, tutus. Everyone was just being themselves. It was so amazing. As well as the prep rally. Um, everyone showed their school spirit. We had a bunch of our teachers dressing up in inflatable costumes and running around the field. It was amazing. Pie eating contest. We had tugof-war and it's it's amazing. the we have PSATs

005uh the PSATs tomorrow for juniors and we have we have the freshman starting their explore cycle number five and as someone who's a junior working at metal fab I get the honor to work with the freshmen and they're all they're amazing I can't ask for anything less they work as hard as they can and I think Miss Cook and Mr. Macintosh does a really good job like letting the kids know that they like Shashin is probably one of the best vocational high schools that you could go to to get the experience like this. No judgment or anything. I know I go here so I can't say [laughter and clears throat] anything about that. Um but it's it's really amazing and that's all I really have to say and I'm so honored to be here. So

006I appreciate everyone listening and I can't thank you guys enough. >> Thank you. Thank you. We're honored to have you and your enthusiasm is amazing. So, if we could start every meeting like that, that's great. [laughter] >> McKenzie, which of the f which of our towns are you from? >> I'm from Chuksberry. >> Oh, of course. [laughter] >> All right. I am going to ask my committee if they would like to take something out of order, which is the curriculum subcommittee. um particularly the MSBA now yeah the MSBA chapter 74 vocational educational out of that document and so I need to do a vote on this so can I get a motion >> make a motion that we >> take it out of order >> take it out of water >> second all those in

007favor I >> anybody opposed? Unanimous vote. Oh, I forgot to mention that these guilts came in one minute late. So, my apology my apologies without waiting that >> my apologies for my late arrival. That's okay. [laughter] >> Okay. So, this is the subcommittee report. I guess we'll start with you want to talk about the subcommittee. Um do you want to give a report first? Yeah, I mean hopefully by now you've read the minutes and you know that we met on October 7th. Um at that time we were presented from the leadership team with um three we had three agenda items. One was the MSBA educational profile questionnaire which we reviewed and we discussed and we voted to move it to this this meeting tonight. um the MSBA chapter 74 vocational education viability documentation. That was

008the second item on the agenda and we um reviewed that. The um committee members that had questions, we asked questions. Um that is where the issue or the item with the automotive came up. um auto um auto body. Um it was discussed that that was a bigger discussion and we wanted to bring it to the full committee for more discussion because um you know personally we we weren't comfortable like making a decision like that without some more information. So we um moved it bring it to tonight's conversation. Um and as a result of that, you know, we have a lot of people here tonight. Um we have a lot of people in the calf there. We've as a committee have received almost over a hundred uh emails from different stakeholders in the communities in our

009five sending towns. Um you know, people have presented a lot of argument for a lot of um support for the uh the program. Um at the time when we met on October 7th, we were told that um you know the the it was proposed due to low enrollment and um that you know that was the main reason for putting that on the um the MSBA document. Um as part of that, as you'll see on the agenda, we have some instructor testimony, um business and industry testimony, and then some more discussion hopefully. So, um, and then the last item, just so we're clear, there was another item on there regarding the master schedule. At the time, we did decide to hold off on that. Tony, um, had, you know, it was disappointing that we had to,

010but that was his recommendation was to hold off on changes to the master schedule for now. And, um, that's >> what we discussed. >> Can I just just clarify that last one? And we we're still waiting for additional information on this the uh competency determination piece. So we had asked to hold off on making a final decision that's done. >> Did it have something to do with MCCAST, too? >> Yeah. Well, that's the competency determination MCCAST. >> Oh, okay. >> Okay. So, that's pretty much where we're at. I guess I will now ask for the instructor testimony. Are they both here? [clears throat] >> Yeah, go ahead. >> I don't Yeah, that's okay. Absolutely. >> Like [laughter] I'm like I really don't know how. >> So good evening everybody. My name is Mark Dangelo. I've

011been one of the uh instructors here at Shasheen for the past six years. Uh transitioning from industry to teaching has been one of the greatest career decisions that I've made. Um I'm a product of Minute Man Tech um in Lexington from their collision pro uh collision repair program where I found my passion for the industry. Now I'm able to help kids discover their own uh discover and cultivate their own passion for this industry. It is truly rewarding experience every day. It came to a great shock to us three weeks ago uh when we discovered that the autoc collision repair program was going to be left out of a new building uh the plans for a new facility. [snorts] Um the worst day teaching here for me definitely was the day we had to inform our

012students of um the plans that were happening behind the scenes. The reactions rarely were devastating. Um the the greatest impact in closing of this program and not including it in a new building will be on the students here. These students can be themselves, learn a skill and thrive. This programs allows them to discover a passion and a craft that [snorts] they uh that's that will set themselves up for a successful career. Um, in the past six years, I've actually seen a lot of changes in our students um in their uh mentality and their um confidence over the past six years. Uh they're getting more involved with the community. They're getting more involved with the school. That was never a thing six years ago with our students. Uh they're becoming more and more they're some students

013are actually able to get on National Honor Society. The other ones are joining student council and trying to go those routes which has been a big thing. Kids coming out of this program are quickly placed in higher paying jobs [snorts] um educationally debtree. These kids have also given Shashene a great reputation in the local industry with their impressive skills and work ethic. They're they're knowledgeable and they know what they're doing when they leave here. They work hard. So closing this program would actually subst uh substantially impact the industry as well as local businesses. So the average age for an auto body uh technician now is 54 years old. Um the industry needs younger kids who are techsavvy to fill these gaps of the retiring workforce to keep to keep up with all the um changes

014in the uh technology changes in the industry. The work mentality is evolving from the from a craftsman to a high-tech um a high-tech technician as the vehicles are constantly changing. The autoc collision program prepares kids for these changes. These kids will be better at diagnosing and repairing these systems because their generation has grown up with this more advanced technology. Even through the processes um even the process of becoming more computerized, this industry will not be touched by the AI boom. No accident is the same. No car is the same. This is truly a skilled craft and a labor service that cannot be automated. Um, every in every accident is different and requires a sophisticated eye to identify these issues, develop a repair plan and execute with the greatest uh attention to ski uh detail. The

015fundamental stop in this program set these kids up for careers not only as technicians but also working in adjacent areas such as appraisers, parts and supplies, manufacturing, and even shop ownership. If you've been in an accident or needed a repair done recently, you felt some of the strain in the resources on the collision repair shops by the way of longer wait times for service. If this program is unable to provide uh local businesses with the workforce, this issue will continue to get worse. If shops aren't able to fill the positions, they will be forced to close down. Um auctions will dwindle down and costs will rise. Instead of closing the program, I would um consider I would like to consider taking a page out of Northeast and showcasing the program with the community more. Um

016and we actually have someone here tonight that's going to speak on a little bit about that. So kind of leave that to him. Um to highlight the uh technical changes, partner with local businesses to showcase all the opportunities um with the design and instruction of a new school. There is a phenomenal opportunity to design a state-of-the-art facility that would better align with the technology of today, setting students up setting future students up for greater success. Investing in this way will also attract potential uh more potential students increasing enrollment. Uh this program is vital to the students, local industry and community um for the sake of everyone in this room and in the cafeteria. So please try to keep this program alive. [clears throat] >> Thank you. My apologies for my late arrival. >> No, I

017have a question for you. How many people are in the cafeteria? Do we know >> the ballpark? >> Sorry, Mr. >> Quite a few, but I'm not sure exactly. >> There's more. Yeah, more arriving. >> Good evening. Thank you for giving us the time to speak tonight. My name is Dennis Rapuchcci, one of the other instructors in the shop. uh we find that some of things are a an incredible understanding. So in an industry evolving and advancing rapidly vehicles produced after 2010 considered technical marvels offering state-of-the-art materials used in construction and crash avoidance systems that are only dreamt of less than 20 years ago. The need for well-trained entry-level technicians is increasing faster than the blue collar industries across the across this country. The hands-on approach to repair vehicles will never change as the procedure

018variables adjust to each meat meat crash. In my nearly 25 years in the industry prior to becoming teaching, I have never experienced two identical crashes, dents, or scratches or crashes. Um, which leads me to believe there will never need there will never need an A for AI or robots do we do because like he said, hand touch and the a human eye to see everything needs to be done. Repair procedures adjust constantly to fill the needs of property need to properly restore vehicle pre-ac condition, what it looked like before the crash. Uh the misconception is that we're training the next generation of panel beaters and bondo slingers which is absolutely the myth we face today. The error the error of the body man is long gone and will never return. Teaching students principles of safety

019engineering knowledge of specialized metals used in construction and how the computerized avoidance systems work is just a tip of the iceberg in collision repair understanding. requesting purchases and scanning equipment repeatedly suggested by the adviserss in our yearly dinner to properly introduce students with the equipment they will face on co-op. All vehicles after 2010 require mandatory calibration operations which ensures the repairs are complete and customer receive a vehicle back that is now safe for the road. Well-trained students enter the workforce as respected and valued employees. Um, and I just want to notice a small fact is a few years ago we extended an invitation to a large collision repair center in Danvers. This was mentioned through the the current uh the old cluster chair I had and they asked permission to go see the vocational director.

020So I went to VOC vocational director asked if any or all school committee members, all administrators and every in guidance would be interested to tour this facility to see firsthand what is at stake daily in our industry. Meet the general manager of a Fortune 500 company's collision center and ask questions and gain insight on the inner workings of collision repair. Unfortunately, I was told nobody was interested. So, I just want to let you know that invitation still stands and we will coordinate anything and all of it if anybody's interested to visit this facility and talk to the manager of this company and just see how we do what we do and why we're passionate about teaching it. So, thank you very much for giving me the time. >> Thank you. >> Anybody have any questions?

021Uh is is there going to be other presentations because I have some question on stuff I read but >> maybe I'll wait until then because I might have questions for the instructor definitely you guys. >> Thank you. >> Can I ask a question? >> Sure. >> I will tell you auto body was the reason I got involved in tech. I took auto body at night here. >> Okay. >> And restored a Mustang. [laughter] So, uh, >> now do you guys do any type of that type of thing, >> restoration? >> No, because having a vehicle here for more than two plus years is really difficult to have students involved and excited every day. >> We do have several students who graduated and now working in uh restoration shops. >> Yes. So we have Mariam Williams

022and a couple other students who was a national participant in Skills USA twice. >> But do you do any type of that? Not maybe total restoration, but >> we will do mostly the small stuff that our body shop will do simply because a lot of people come in do not want to wait too long. I've had customers come in for a bumper, a fender, and a headlight and ask if can I wait for it, which could take a couple weeks. So, [laughter] so this will be misunderstanding. People don't understand how entailed >> or how involved what we do and it especially, you know, we have six hours a day, then the kids have their lunch break, getting them back to work after lunch and keeping things going and the flow going and every other week

023with ninth graders, which we do not allow do too much work on customer cars because they are paying customers. So we do our best to keep the flow going, but it kind of every other week it kind of ups and downs for speed and production. So restoration is something we turned away because [clears throat] nobody wants to leave their car here for two plus years. And we do have we do have a small footprint. So it's kind of tough to have something taken all apart and taking up all that space. So it is and more space is needed for that. >> A lot of this generation is not into classic muscle cars >> to restore. >> They will go by like a Honda Civic. That's what they would rather >> they're not going. >> That's

024that's that generation top. [laughter] >> Sorry. Yeah. >> so about how many cars I mean how many people do you get? Is it all a lot is it a lot of students cars that you're working on or is it all >> We we do a small amount of student stuff. It's it's probably mostly people in the community. Um I think we're generating close between seven to $9,000 a year in repairs. Um so we we have um a list of all our peer orders we do we do as much as we can by the end of the year things kind of slow down then we have coming be Thanksgiving winter break February vacation April vacation so we really have to stagger it out and most people understand it takes longer >> but not enough not enough

025people understand how long it takes >> it done anywhere else it takes a long time >> uh not really if you work in a shop where you know where they have somebody working eight hours, an actual professional, it booms a lot quicker. So having 14 to 16 year olds do it, it will take longer. Sometimes it has to be done twice, has to be redone. So yes, >> I know that auto bodies numbers have been low for a number of years and I know a couple years ago you guys got that really cool spray booth um which I would >> through a grant. Yes. Right. >> Which I would assume is a selling point. What have you guys been able to do as yourselves with school administration with your advisory committee to promote the shop?

026I mean, because yes, right now there's this actual threat, >> but attendance has been low for a long time. >> Can you share what you've been able >> The biggest things that will hold us off of using all the ninth graders and stuff do all the painting is the school requires a uh respirator questionnaire signed by their doctor to make sure they don't have asthma. If they don't return that, then they can't spray anything. So really hampered by that. We do have some fresh fresh air hoods so freshman can do their small projects, but it's a very small amount which is safer, but it is fresh air. They're wearing paint suits and gloves, so they are protected. But to have students have freshmen come in who would love to sand and paint an entire car,

027it's kind of difficult because of the chemical dangers and the requirements of the uh questionnaire signed by a doctor for them to do that. >> So do you feel we miss out on those kids because through exploratory they don't get a full experience? I think quite a few people it has been very successful at um Northeast because I know another teacher over there a good friend of mine [clears throat] and on their freshman they have them paint an entire car >> and from start to finish and they do it every every exploratory um it's been very successful for them. The kids love it >> because they get to see it from start to finish. Change the color. They get to sand it, mask it all up, tape it all up, >> clean it, paint it

028and see it at when it's finished. So it's very successful for them. >> So we are fighting trying to get through and navigate the safe issue and also working on the respirator issue of the uh the question. [clears throat] >> It's usually safe for upper classmen who have to do whatever the question is. So, at Northeast for the ninth graders, are they wearing respirator masks or >> they have they wear paint suits, they wear gloves, they have a um a respirator, but they don't have the requirement that we do for the questionnaire for the respirator. So, without that, we're kind of hesitant because a small amount, it is legal to have a student use this much paint, but have them use this much paint, it changes the the uh the needs of them in this

029building. So, >> so is that something we require specifically here or >> Yeah, this school has been and required it for several years now. Um, I have asked them to turn it home the end of June because quite quite a few students have doctor's appointments in the summertime for um where they're having their their their stuff for uh coming up for sports next year. So having somebody come to pass coming back to school and say we need this by November or you can't go on co-op or if you're upper classman we take you off co-op. Um most people have their kids go to the doctors in the summertime. Now they have to add add a second appointment which means they have to leave work. So we're trying to coordinate it so that they can get

030it done quicker so they can come back to school with it already signed [clears throat] and we can roll faster. As far as with the freshman, we're not too sure what to do with that. We're we're working with our advisers with that as well, trying to find. So, we do have the water-based paint. It is still chemicals that are dangerous. They're safer for the environment, but they're just reduced with water. So, there's still the safety of the chemicals exposed to the students. So, we do have the paint suits, we have the gloves, the the fresh air hoods. We're only allowed four at a time in the booth because, you know, there's only four hoses in there for that. Um, but we do our best with that. We still make it as exciting. Everybody has fun.

031So the freshman go home with two projects. They airbrush a license plate and then they we have a cybert truck pieces. They bend it all together. They welded on one of the welders we got a few years ago or really nice resistance fault welder and they will paint that as well. They get to take those two projects home. Um and we have been doing which we are doing again which is project explore and we're going to go back into the summer stuff as well. I've had so many students in the last eight years coming in as freshmen saying, "Oh, I remember coming through here for the summer. I still have my license plate that's hanging on my wall at home." So, they are enjoying that. It's just trying to pump that up as far as

032a bigger project. They won't be take if they paint a car, they won't take it home, but that's something they're always going to remember. And then we also have a painted hood where they do their own paint designs where they they hand paint everything. And then we're trying to take pictures like that and putting on the Instagram page. we have for the shop. So, trying to keep everybody excited, show more. Um, and when students leave, we do the survey every week. Usually the biggest problem and uh complaint they have is there's no way to sit for break. We had milk grades. It didn't end well. So, um, yes, just two quick questions. Are we the only school that has this restrade requirement? Are there others? >> I'm not too sure about that. I'll have to

033reach out. I know people at Lintech and, uh, NOVA, I will reach out. I know somebody in Whittier. I can reach out and see what their requirements are. >> Do you know how long this has been in place? This requirement with us. >> I'm gonna say no less than six years, maybe more. >> Yeah. >> We don't know why it came in. >> No, it's it is a safety requirement and I understand that 100%. Um, but the the requirement of a doctor signature, I think it may be easier to have it done at the end of the year when they come in next following year already signed instead of trying to get a second appointment. >> That's kind of my question. When does when do the ninth graders get that? When are they getting the

034the >> So, they're given they're given that document uh the first or second week of school. It comes down from the vocational director's office or they mail it directly home. They make their appointments. The doctors sign it. It's to prove no students has asthma or issues like that. >> Make sure if they put a respirator on there and it hampers their breathing. We don't have any issues like that. >> So no, excuse me. So Northeast has that requirement or >> I do not think they do because every freshman has painted. Yeah. So they do not. So >> Mr. Tilly [clears throat] knows because he was the one who was working with Northeast as an adviser as well. >> Right. Of course. I don't >> that's okay. If the program continues on, would it be feasible

035to we know who the freshman coming in are before this to send them little letters for those who might be thinking about auto body? >> This is the first time I heard about this being a roadblock, but I can I I I know the superintendent at Northeast very well. I can call Dave tomorrow and have that conversation when we find out exactly what they've done over there. >> And again, I wasn't here when that was [clears throat] implemented. I don't know the history behind that. >> It is new to to he would know about. >> Yeah. I just like it makes more sense. I mean, yeah, if you got a if you give them to them in September, the first few classes, they're never going to get a doctor's no time. >> Especially coming into

036cold and fever season like that, getting a doc's appointment is not easy. I got two 17-year-old just turned 17 today. Getting a dog's appointments when they're sick is not easy right now. So, yes. Um, first of all, I appreciate the comments that that both you and and Mark have made. Um, I I would first uh mention that uh I don't know if any of us on the committee ever received an invitation to visit a collision repair, but that sounds much more exciting than visiting my office. So, [laughter] we would be glad to do that. Um, several of the letters that we received, I'm thinking of one from construction people and several others talked about the transferability of skills that even if kids start out here historically in the autoc collision program and they don't even

037if they don't stay with it, they wind up transferring those skills to other places which is something that the school as a general matter has been has been working on. want to ask about the reverse. Are are some of the skills that are learned in other places advanced manufacturing, metals, welding, uh robotics, materials programs, 3D printing, are those transferable into jobs in 100%. So if you look at some of the things we do in in in fixing any vehicle, we do the collision repair, fixing the dents and and painting and stuff like that. But if something is damaged deeply into it, you're going to talk about coolings with the heating and cooling, air conditioning, electrical, uh the automotive part, doing suspension work and changing like components would be a water pump or steering suspension or

038rear a rear axles are bent. So there's quite a few things. So you know we we shape things, we beautify things, but we all the aspects. So as far as like the 3D printer on the high-end stuff. So I I watch some of the custom TV shows and they're doing like $5 million cars. So they will print out their own parts like that. But that stuff is as the cost of the creating that stuff is coming down. More shops are use shop use for small stuff. But for bigger components, it's it's very it's getting more viable in the trade. and related to that for kids who are not not able to access these particular training opportunities inside a vocational school [snorts] and we are not the only vocational school that has been through this sadly

039Mark El Mark Mark D'Angelo's Alam u Minute Man did this several years ago um sorry to say >> um But for kids who aren't able to access within a vocational school setting, where are the opportunities? Has the industry developed its own training outlets to serve its own needs? There are maybe there are a few vocational colleges um where it starts around $30,000. Um the closest would probably be National Community College. >> Um and then the bigger ones would be Lincoln Techch or Wiiotech, which is Wyoming. Um, so they're not as close as they used to be, but at the cost, it's almost like a student [clears throat] loan when they're done, they have to work that off. Now, when they get out of that, they still have to buy tools. So, I was in the

040industry for close to 25 years, and I amassed tools of about $70,000 worth of tools. So, somebody can learn better here and apply that money in their first job towards build up their tools and stuff like that to help their uh skills excel. and and get polished, then it would be a lot better, I think, than spending all that money at a college and having to pay that debt before you can start buying your tools. >> Thank you. >> No problem. Yes. >> Yeah. You mentioned Northeast. Just this is not for for everybody to think about, but you mentioned Northeast. You know, we're not the first oak school to go through this, >> you know, basically MSBA project, and it's not the first boat school that offers like a auto body program. So I guess

041it's for all of us to think about like like you had mentioned Northeast like maybe other schools what they've done to kind of promote the program. >> They were on they were on the on the edge of where we are today and they they were given the time to turn it around show the interest and increase Roma and that's what we're asking for tonight. >> No, I I agree. I think that's something we maybe should look at. Like if we're not the first Vogue school, like you're starting to see like a transition to more, you know, uh more schools getting done. >> And I think if accepting that invitation for that facility to see that, >> we definitely have a couple of small brand new mini buses. We could bring everybody over to see that

042and you could ask your own questions to the manager of that place. No, like I knew Northeast had it auto, but the other I don't know which I can go and look, but I'm saying like which ones have still have it. Like you mentioned what they've done to kind of turn around. I think that's like will be an education for everybody to know that >> this is some of our struggles too. We want we want them all to survive because they're closing the other one at Essex. So when that was a brand new facility about eight years ago, around eight years ago. So it it's it's difficult for people in the industry to lose that little valve of employees to come out of. [clears throat] >> I I completely know what your reference I mean

043I'm definitely not going to be an auto body expert, but I can tell you last time my wife's car got fixed. The guy I go with is fantastic and he's probably 60 and >> yeah. So the better we can train them, the better they are. >> And he bought the business from somebody else and I don't think his kids are going into it. So, I think he's actually going to close [clears throat] the >> I actually have a former student here tonight who bought the body shop. I put him in a co-op 15 years ago. He just bought the shop. >> So, it's really nice to see [clears throat] them succeed as much like that, too. >> I [clears throat] just want to say Dennis, you and Mark are exceptional teachers and I want to

044tell you the jobs I've had you do with your kids. I'm so impressed. >> Thank you. And I love what's going on down there. So, I appreciate your talents, several jobs, and I know you tell the people up front, we know that. I taught you 30 years, I'm not taking your job. I know, Dennis. They come off the street, they think you're you're the wizard. You're looking at me. No, >> no. And you tell them up front. I can't. We can't do this. These are kids, >> right? >> When we took the in turn and I we took the Brooka Finance Committee through there. They had a lot of questions. >> A lot of these people never saw this place. First thing we said, yeah, we do a lot of work with the kids, but

045we got to be patient. >> We always tell our students after they graduate, you know, the doors always open if you want to come and talk to us about advancing to another out of the career or out of the career. And the same thing administration and school committee and guidance. The doors are always open. If you have any questions, please come down and ask us any questions. We're more than welcome. >> So, so I have a Are you done? >> Yes. >> So, so Oh, I'm sorry, Charlie. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. looking at some of the statistics he has sent out about [clears throat] the last like 10 years I think one year popped out there that was like twice the amount of kids over a lot of the other years and I'm

046[clears throat] curious do you have any idea why that might have been >> so one year we did have 12 in a waiting list years ago we had two well-trained teachers and an aid from the industry and the lead teacher at the time let him run let let us run it the way we want and we changed a little bit more exciting stuff because from the custom side too, the the ABD and it really made very exciting for these students and we had a waiting list and at the end of it he said, "Okay, you guys done? Okay, we're going back to the way it was and this is where we are." So, trying to get somebody in here to help us who can just bring it all the way around. Right now, we do

047the the collision as much as we can, which is quite a bit, but having the other custom side too as well to see this as part of it as well. I think that's part of the issue is recruitment. I mean, maybe there's less kids that are interested, but when you get it, they not getting excited. >> It was It was unfortunate. Several years ago, we were getting 15 freshmen each week. Now, they knocked it down to 12. So, we have fewer exposure to the students as well. So, that's 40 less students a year. >> Why? And why is that? >> We don't know. It wasn't our choice. >> That would make before I got here. >> Yeah, it was it was before Tony get here. >> Was it guidance or >> I we were just

048told. So, so yeah, actually I have two questions. So, I was going to ask about the teacher ratio to kids like So, are there two full-time teachers in there right now? >> There is. Yes. >> And all all the time for the program. And do you have an aid coming in also or? >> Um, so on freshman week, we're we're really nice to have we're pl we're blessed to have Mr. Sweeney come down. He's he bounces between automotive from time to time, but he's in metal fab and advanced manufacturing. He's a whiz in those things. has a lot of automotive knowledge, but they are that different. So, he can help the kids. He's picking up a lot of the projects we're doing. He's really good with that, but it comes to mixing paint, matching paint,

049um all stuff like that, it's really critical to being well trained in that. So, >> and are the kids engaged all the time on when they're in the program? >> Yes. Yes. The biggest problem is like when when when I'm in class, he's there by himself on this week >> and on that week he goes to related. When he comes back, I'm leaving. So, and the freshman and the juniors, we're trying to keep them busy so they can be ready for co-op in April. Um, so we're just trying to keep everything going, keep the flow going and keep the excitement excitement going for the freshmen as well. So, so my second question is if you if you could dream about of course keeping this program, what would you want to see in place in order

050to make it as successful as it could be? >> Uh there's quite a few things. I mean, if we could find an easier way to get through like the the document for the respirator form, which if we could do it early in the year, like or the end of the year, so the following year, um, and see if we could do something towards a well-trained in the industry uh, in aid. So, we were most successful because if one of us in class and the other one can go this far instead of somebody go all the way. Um because if one of us is so if the eight is in the shop with the with the freshman and one of us is in the spray booth, it could take an hour and a half to paint

051the car. So to have the freshman going and the juniors at the same time, it's it's it's it's a little difficult. >> So you're talking about additional staffing to help. >> So with with the trade with a trained aid, we probably could have them go related as well, so the two instructors could be in the shop and keep the flow going because they're experienced. And and what about other resources that you would need? >> Um so the cost of everything has gone up. So if we're going to paint a car with a freshman every week, you're talking u probably about $400 to $500 per vehicle. And that's every other week. So the cost is it gets up there. >> Yeah. So we're working with our advisor, stuff like that. But the same thing, we want

052to make sure everybody's on board. We're not violating any safety things with the respirators and we want to make sure the students are safe and are allowed to do what we're asking them to do as well. >> Their safety is the most important thing for us >> question. Would you want more freshmen to explore? >> Oh, absolutely. >> And you feel like they you would be able to handle that like numbers? So from I started here in 2010 and for the first until they changed it, we had no problem with 15 freshmen ever. >> It was just handed down to us. It's like you're only going to get 12 now. It was like, okay. >> Did you have any? >> I think that was right after. So when the uh the other instructor so the

053aid left the other instructor retired and I was running it for at least a year by myself with no aid and I would get like a gym teacher to stand there and make sure the kids weren't getting hurt or stuff like that. So trying to keep things going those for that year or so was was difficult but uh the aid who can do what we do is what we really do. >> Anyone else? Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mr. I got Eric P. [clears throat] >> I think they got maybe two groups. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> Hello. Back. >> Good evening everyone. [laughter] My name is Eric Pete and I'm honored to be here representing passionate group advisory committee members and more broadly the autoc collision industry across eastern Massachusetts. I'm the

054proud owner of three thriving collision centers and we've been blessed to operate successfully for over a decade. I spent 25 years in this industry and it all started at Technic High School Plat and Milford Connecticut where I graduated in 2001. My journey began during my senior year through a co-op program and I've never looked back. I've been surrounded by brilliant, driven, and passionate people who helped me grow. Now, I'm here to pay it forward to the next generation of collision repair professionals. Although I'm new to the Shasheen Advisory Committee, I've had the privilege of serving as chair of the Northeast Metro Techch Advisory Committee for nearly eight years. Over the years, I've also proudly employed many talented tech graduates, individuals who are now building strong, meaningful careers. So, let's address the bigger picture. While current

055enrollment numbers at Shawene Tech may not fully reflect it, the autoc collision industry is not fading. It's growing and very rapidly. It's a stable, thriving, and evolving field with countless opportunities for young people to carve their own unique path. Unfortunately, many technical school programs focus on only a small slice of what this industry has to offer. As a result, students and parents often don't see the full range of career options from hands-on repair to estimating, insurance work, technology integration, management, and beyond. All of which you can see highlighted here in the many different facets that our collision industry has to offer. Through active involvement at Northeast, we have seen how engaged advisory committees can transform programs into dynamic realorld training grounds. We've done this through hands-on demonstrations, open houses, and direct conversations with parents, helping

056them understand how promising and resilient this career path can be. And here at Shawing, something powerful has already happened, has gotten all of our attention. In just over a couple weeks time, a small yet diverse group of passionate people from across the industry have rallied together. They've raised awareness and stood up for the importance of preserving and strengthening the collision program here at Shashi. This model has worked before. At Northeast, the program was on the brink of being cut. But because the advisory committee stepped up, offered knowledge and support, and partnered with the school, the program was not only saved, it was set on a path to thrive. And advisory committees can't do it alone. For these programs to grow and attract students, schools must listen, collaborate, and provide the support instructors need to make

057these programs shine. The transformation doesn't happen overnight, but it can't happen if the at all the program disappears. So, I ask everyone, why not try harder? Why not be the school that championed a resilient, future ready career path? One that gives students the skills and stability to thrive no matter where the economy shifts. This is an industry that has weathered every storm. It offers students a pathway to success, security, and most importantly, pride in their craft. With that, Patrick Tully, who is one of our counterparts, he'll share some vital data and statistics that have underscore why this program is not just worth keeping, but worth investing in for many years to come. Thank you. >> Public speaking is not my strong suit. I'll tell you that right now. So, I apologize. It's actually funny that

058um Adult Ed Auto Body is what you brought you here 15 years ago. I taught adult um collision repair and refinishing at Northeast. That's [clears throat and snorts] what brings me here now. Like I said, my name is Patrick Tully. I'm the owner of Factory Collision Center in Middleton, Massachusetts. I'm a proud member of the advisory board here at Shasheen and at Northeast Metro Tech. I've worked alongside with many talented graduates from here at Shasheen and as well at Northeast. I've seen firsthand the difference that this program can make, not just our students, but the entire industry. Um, our last advisor meeting, we were told the collision program is being phased out due to low numbers. I understand that's a tough choice to be made and those need to be made sometimes. But I'm here

059to say clearly say this program is far too valuable to lose. Collision repair is a 72 billion a year industry in the US and it is continuing to grow. [snorts] More than 6 million vehicles are in an accident every single year logged through the insurance community in America. 70% of those logged in are paid through from through insurance companies, which makes it a stable and recession proof company uh job. Uh in the Middle Sack County alone, there's 334 registered collision repair facilities. Although there's more than 300,000 technicians in the US, the opportunities go far between far beyond turning wrenches. Uh this field leads to careers in estimating paintings, uh supply chain, manufacturing, and insurance. This isn't just a trade. It's a gateway to a long life, long-term [snorts] life rewarding of careers. We've seen program

060turnarounds like this a few years ago. Northeast, as you know, face similar uh enrollment challenges. By opening the doors through open houses, tech nights, field trips, and bringing in industrial professionals into the classroom, we helped rebuild that program. Students came back. Energy came back. The future came back. We can do the same here. This is urgent. The average collision repair technician in the US is 45 years old. In my shop alone, it is 58 years old. My youngest tech under 62 years old is 44 years old. That should tell us something. This industry is aging and we need our next generation. Not in five years, not tomorrow. You're not not yet. We need it today. [laughter] uh this industry, this isn't the industry it was decades ago. Uh people are working on electrical electric vehicles

061and driver assistant programs. This is cutting edge computer technology. We need bright driven students that can thrive in this environment. We need programs like Shasheen Cami to get that there for them to start. As a board member, I need this program. As a business owner, I depend on it. Someone who believes in the future of this trade, I'm asking that you help us fight for it. Uh whether the students here know it or not, they deserve the opportunity as well to continue with this program. >> That's all I got. Any questions? >> You did such a great job public speaking. >> Yeah. No, really better [laughter] questions. >> One of you actually So I know as advised you all get together after the dinner and you discuss the new trends going trends and things like

062that, >> correct? So I guess my question is do you see anything on at our body auto body shop that we shouldn't be having that maybe we haven't because I know they put in their budget it goes up the chain and certain things get chopped yes for whatever reason because we can only everybody wants everything and we can't give everybody everything but is there any >> big thing that you can that stands out at you that would make the recruitment of kids >> uh your end of the field as opposed to >> Exactly. and and our main focus going to this er Eric also played an extremely uh important role in this. Our biggest thing is just moving forward onto the positive. When we were at the tech night, unfortunately you got bombarded a few

063times. It it was very passionate. We're very passionate about it. We're all very involved in this. U like I said, I've had a lot of students come from this program. Um I'm not saying how things went here in the past. I'm looking towards the future and I'm going to tell you how things have gone at Northeast. Um, when I was opening my shop, uh, Eric's shop was beginning to start to thrive and the things he brought in, I actually implemented in mine and has helped me as well. A lot of it is scanning vehicles. Um, insurance, what is insurance? Basically, it's it's passing the buck off to see who's liable for something. At the end of the day, that's what it is. We scan every single car that comes into the building. You need proper

064scanning equipment and calibration equipment. So, when the car comes in, you can teach a student how to plug a car in. Right now, I have it to the point in my shop, I have such advanced technology, I can have someone that cleans the cars able to actually just plug it in, students, uh, co-op kids, plug it in, scan it, and print us the report. They hand the report to the next person. We're able to read and diagnose what is going on with the vehicle. This is all new stuff. Um, even when I worked as a flat rate technician 12 years ago, we weren't doing this. uh in cars today they're required 2015 and above vehicles 75% of them that earn a an accident require ads calibration this is all new um bringing the program into

065the modern century of how we do work now is very important it's not like uh Mr. Poochie said just panel beating and sanding bondo and painting cars on the floor. It's a lot different. Technology is driving this industry right now. Right now, there's only 5% of the cars on the road that are electric, which it seems a lot more, but that's the area we live in, and that is continuing to grow daily, no matter what anyone tells you. Um, my shop alone, I don't I don't have the proper training for full lines of electric vehicles. We're working on that. It's hard to keep up. It's expensive to keep up, and I understand that. Everything has to go through grants and you have to really push for it. Um, as the advisory board, we do our

066best. I know that there's been multiple um, field trips to Eric shops. I've had a couple at my shop. U, we've brought other people into the shop to show the different avenues of what we can do. Um, going back to what you said about restoration work. I I completely understand why and that's where the first thing we saw when we went into the shop. You have to get restoration out of collision because it is totally different. I own a restoration shop, so I sound like a terrible hypocrite saying that. I own a restoration shop as well. That's an avenue you can take from learning auto body. I also do a lot of work for sign art out of um well, no, he actually just moved to the new shop that we buy kitties there. Sorry.

067Um I [clears throat] I do a lot of body work and paint for him. He has his own full-time bodywork and paint guy working on his signs. When he gets overwhelmed, he sends me stuff. Restoration is an avenue that leaves from auto body. Um more collision repair than anything. And besides, it's just it spreads off a little bit everywhere. There's other avenues that kids can go. By closing this one gateway, that whole web really just collapses. >> And that web is very much present here in the very different avenues that you can go. Whether it's at the top of the chain being a collision shop owner, which anybody who's passionate about it definitely strives for. Within the shop, you have an estimator, somebody who is assisting in the damage appraisals of these cars that come

068in. They play a very, very pivotal role in what's taking place. Alongside them, you have a blueprinter, which is the liaison between the estimator and the technician to help them visually understand what it is they need to do to this car. Making communication as simple as possible to eliminate any errors, but just making the whole process that much easier. You have your technicians, which again, all the salary arranges are on here. Your technicians, your insurance aspects, which can branch off into a bunch of different directions. Your finished technicians is the painter, manufacturer reps. These are people who work for various supply companies that come in. They present all the different tools, technology, supplies, different things that the shops need to thrive. Same thing with the supply company rep as well as the tech rep, all

069kind of tied in. Um, and then people within depart from. And these are just a small handful of the things that play a very key role in the shops. >> And we ran out of room. >> I want to go back to something you just said when it comes down to funding. A lot of advisory committees are willing to supplement and inject their own funds to make these programs work because these programs play such a pivotal role in success of our shops. You know, when Pat was talking about the role we played with Northeast, something as simple as estimating. We donated three laptops and three workstations to the department to allow students to be able to do mobile estimating which is something which is very prominent within the field for them to be hands-on on

070the car. They're working with fellow students disassembling it identifying the damage on a car looking within the database understanding what they're seeing on the car versus what's in there and then preparing these damage estimates has helped them to understand just one other small fraction of what this industry has to offer. So when it comes down to the funding aspect, with strong advisory committee involvement, shops are willing to supplement this and provide funding wherever they can to help the program stay stronger. >> Am I allowed to make a comment even though I've just registered as [laughter] >> earned it? >> I think some of you guys have gotten emails and outreach over the last >> couple blame raiser for that. Um, [laughter] I I think the industry at large didn't realize the enrollment issue. When we

071go to an advisory committee, it's at night. We don't see the enrollment. We don't talk about it. We talk about technicians. We talk about industry. We talk about these topics. We don't see how many kids are in the classroom. And it's not top of mind to us in the industry. So, not something we're asking about, not something we do. So, the way I look at this and observe it as a communication issue. Had we known, I think we would have jumped on this years ago and louder. And I wish our efforts weren't to the emails. they were to the kids. But you have our attention now. >> That's why I said in just a little under two weeks time, the amount of attention this topic has kind of garnished is is monumental, especially for our

072industry where it's a very small group of people that again the key word here is passion. We all very passionately care about what we do. And if there was any prior awareness of this, we would have jumped on this bandwagon much sooner and provided whatever tools and support were needed to help really boost the enrollment numbers. And if there's consideration for keeping the program in place, you will see these efforts come in just as strongly as you did over the past nearly two weeks. >> Just um two quick things. There's a remarkable disconnect between the level of enthusiasm and emails and all that we've gotten which we really appreciate. It's it's been very interesting and the fact that the reality is a lot of us around the table here have been at graduation I think

073as recently as two years ago handing out two diplomas to kids in this shop. And so there and I all of the points have been made about the aging workforce and the fact that there are important jobs and good jobs and tech more technologically advanced. All of that is is wellreceived and yet somehow it isn't getting on to the next generation. I'm not even sure if it's getting on and I I don't know the answer to this but whether it's getting on to the next generation within your field. We It's not unusual if you're around Sheen or any comparable school to find people who are second and third fourth generation carpenters and electricians and plumbers. It it gets carried on. I don't know within your field if that is happening or not because I have

074seen I'll tell you why it's days of the old >> like I said >> the other school programs have booming you know >> well the booming programs we talking about in the past and I know one thing when I was graduating high school I went to New England Tech and Rhode Island after high school I graduated high um auto body at the time being truthfully honest with everyone there's nothing to hide here auto body everyone associates it with the guy sanding a guy painting next to him that's smoking a cigarette the dirty dingy disgusting area I'm going to be the elephant in the room and say that's what people associate. It's not how it is anymore. And education is key with that. Bringing the parents and showing the parents what we actually do on a

075daily basis whether it's at our shops or in the room over here. Um truthfully in the whole field has grown in so many different ways that the two people that run my office, the girl who runs my complete office, they're both females. They're able to they're strong. They're passionate. They're able to control the room and control everything in the situation. A lot of people think that it's just a bunch of guys in a room that are just goofing around and it's disgusting. I'm just being honest because that's what I grew up with. The same perception. You walk by a body shop, it's it's uneducated, it's dirty, and the environment's terrible. Uh it it's education showing what we actually do. We're using computers. Uh the amount of body filler is down 75% compared to it was

07610 years ago. In 10 years, people are not just spreading fixing. So people know body filler is what's used to fix a ding at that. We're replacing panels now. We're using them properly. We're wearing protective gear. Uh the chemicals, yes, most of them, some of them are still dangerous. Uh that's why the school is so adamant on and I understand the fresh air systems. Any decent shop offers that to their painters. Um masks, gloves, at the end of the day, it's no different. If anything, it's healthier than some of the working on a septic system, being in a welding room, working in some machine facilities, working on some robots. It's healthier than that. Just being honest. Whether you're in an office at a body shop or you're even all the way down to the paint

077line, which I I did for 14 years, >> we have open house next week. If you're >> just found out about recruiting, I infer, but uh >> and everyone's not there, so I got elected just like tonight. So, I'll see [laughter] you there. >> Two things. Um, first is a question and a comment. My contacts aren't what they should be. What's the pay scale for the collision industry? >> It's a wide range. It's a very wide range. >> If you were to compare it too to some of the other locations, I think that there's a misnomer. There's actually a really large robust opportunity for salaries starting probably about 75,000 on the starting range going up to 250. Um, you know, if you're a painter, you can definitely make well over six figures. If you're a

078manager, you can make over six figures. If you're an industry supply rep, tech rep, a lot of those come with uh company cars, phones, expense account, um like clothing allowance. There's a lot of perks. Most of the businesses in our industry offer full benefits. Um, there's a lot of private equity being invested into Collision. So, there's a lot of really formal like almost Home Depot style, like very formal businesses that offer kind of a robust compensation package. Um, and insurance too, a lot of those professions, you have a car and office and laptop and a cell phone and things like that. So, there's some perks even beyond the salary, but not hard to get to six figures quickly in a career. >> Thank you. And I did want to let you guys know that the

079email list that was out on social media is not accurate. Uh, it's missing two people and had two people's knowledge is wrong. So, >> hopefully we'll take care of it >> going forward. And we've been for we've been sharing it among ourselves. [laughter] >> We've been sharing it among ourselves. >> We only have like 10 days to put it together in our defense. >> I completely understand. just you know >> so somebody had brought up the topic of continuing education within our industry uh as far as like different vessels for where you can go. So our governing body for what we do, so automotive has ASC, we have IICAR, which is the inter-industry conference on autoc collision repair. And for shops like myself, we are OEM certified. So we're certified by a handful of different

080mainstream manufacturers. In order for us to maintain these certifications, we have to maintain a certain level of training and education through our governing body. And every individual in the shop that holds what we call RO rep has to maintain a certain level of training throughout the year. All of which I supply free of charge to all of my technicians because for us it's it's a selling factor. We have these OEM certifications. We're backed by numerous manufacturers. Honda, Acura, Subaru, McLaren, Ford. We've invested a great deal of time and money into having these certifications because of the pride and we take what we do. And so when it comes down to continuing education, we want our technicians to equally take in that pride. Not just technicians, everybody within the shop, whether it's the estimators, the managers,

081technicians, and we provide them this so that they can see what's current, what's new, and what they have to stay up on in order for us to stay current and ahead of the curve of what's coming down the pipeline on industry. And as far as all the things that have been spoken, whether it's ADS, which is advanced driver assist systems, various computer systems, there are so many different avenues for training that we need to maintain just to make sure that we're putting out a safe product to all of our customers. But most mainstream shops that have a passion and they care, they're providing this education free of charge to their students and they're doing so with a lot of pride. The other thing too, I don't know if any research was done as far as

082the pay scale in the auto [snorts] collision world. One major issue we run into constantly is that we have done what is like peace work. It's by the hour. Uh so you can get paid $21 an hour, but you can still log over 100 hours a week. that runs into a major tie up that I've seen like walking into the lint uh they had a sign up start off at uh carpentry you start at 60,000 electricians 100,000 and at the bottom they had bodyman 36,000 because they took the average flat rate hour they did it by 40 hours because you could only work 40 hours a week although doing peace work you can log in 140 150 200 hours a hour 200 hours a lot of statistic people and they they don't look at that.

083They just look at the actual dollar number per hour. And that hurts our industry as well because students walk in and they look at it and go, "Why am I going to go here and do this for 12, 20, $15 an hour when they're making $50 an hour?" They don't [clears throat] realize that they're logging three, four times the amount of hours that you get paid. It depends on how you perform and you have to perform well. >> Can you explain the piece work? Is it absolutely like >> Yep. No piece of the car. >> No. Oh, so like let's say a car comes into one of our shops and uh I'll make it very small. It has a [clears throat] small dent on the side of the car. The dent is three hours. One

084of my best technicians, I guarantee could have that dent repaired and ready for paint within one hour. So while that takes him six hours >> or one hour, he gets paid the three hours. So if you can work efficient and and not have any issues because if he doesn't, it looks terrible. Now it's on me as the business owner to pay him again or it's on him to redo the entire job. and we're only going to pay that three hours. Whether he spends six, 10, nine, 15 hours, it doesn't matter. We get paid the three. So, you have to be efficient. You have to be skilled. And if you are efficient and skilled, like I said, my best guy, he can fix that dent in one hour. Everybody >> gets paid the three. >> He

085gets paid the three. So, that's how it works. So, it's one loo pull around um overtime and and things of that nature. But, uh just speaking of experience, as a flat rate painter, which I was 14 years, I average 164 hours a week. And when I went to close on my house and I was lost my house because they said, "No, you only make this amount per hour. You can't work 160 hours a week." No, you saw my pay sales. That's not how this works. And I've realized that more and more going down the statistics and working on this. That a lot of the schools are putting out numbers that show students what they can make and they're just going to that hourly number, which 18, 20, $25 an hour. They're not telling how many

086hours they can log. Okay. >> If they're efficient, >> which is all historical data. >> Yeah. which just when I was putting some of this together and I was adding up and counting every single body shop, their safety's guidelines, everything I found, one of the things I came across, not to go off on spiel, was that the average technician makes $22 an hour. I'm like, "No, no, no. It's a flat rate. It's flat rate. They call it peace work." >> So, Patty, I actually have a question about curriculum. So who designs the curriculum for [clears throat] a particular program like the auto collision and repair within the school? Is that >> the state frameworks for every one of the programs? So D de but I believe yours follows ICAR if I'm >> so you're include

087so what's included into the curriculum today in these programs is some of the the latest work that's coming out. Okay. >> Great. states share curriculums as far as you know within New England. >> I would think so. >> I asked that question because I have a fellow graduate from the tech school I graduated in who's worked at two different tech schools in Connecticut. Both of which have had the highest enrollment numbers of any program within the school because of the curriculum models they're following >> and they're putting real world modern technologies in the shop. Uh real world applications students are going to do when they go off the field. It's not just collisional care. It [snorts] goes off to detailing. It goes off to other cosmetic aspects what we do. All of which we at

088Northeast have brought in different uh seminars and uh programs to show them okay listen this is not just auto body where these branches go off. This is another facet that ties in that you can also pursue. >> So the desi's curriculum then is up to date in terms of all this. Okay just check just check. >> Yes. >> So as a student obviously um I went through auto body and I felt like a 2-year-old looking at bubbles for the first time. It was just there was something there. There was something. Oh my god, it was like sprinkles. I loved it. Do you guys think like looking at the open house on the 5th, there's a better way or more optimal way to showcase that the most important parts or the most wellrounded parts of the

089auto body curriculum here in our program? >> Yes. Yeah. >> And I say that and I can't give you a specific example right now, but I can say with the group of people that have rallied in this past two weeks, we can 100% bring something into that open house that'll be visually appealing and give them a good idea on the various aspects of what they present. >> Yeah. Showing the technology side of it is going to be a huge selling factor. >> Do boards like as a student, do boards like that like information? How would you best receive information? >> Me personally, I like reading. I know most kids don't, but >> [laughter] >> when you see the colors and the it draws your attention to it. So something like that is I think it's

090really nice. >> There's a few more pages of this of more information [laughter] to see that. >> So just a few days [cough] [clears throat] just like this >> simple and colorful. Oh the signs that we have right now I've worked with my shop and my teachers and my adviserss. The signs that we have, they're like seven foot signs that just have a bunch of colors [snorts] with polka dots and it's just visually appealing. Kids aren't kids and parents especially aren't just looking at numbers. Like they want to see what they can do. They want to go home and tell like their husband of life like, "Hey, this is what our kid's going to do when he grows up." Like, it's going to be it's going to be amazing. So something like this, I think

091it's really important for the kids to see right up front in their face. They have so much. >> Yeah, I think you touched upon I think it's like an exposure like example like some people reach out if we had like always had other trades like carpentry or plumbing or electrical like you know we had a short town and there was like a shed that had to get redone and those are the big ones. So that's huge exposure in the community. So those are always like people I talk to like you said it's you know so I think it is probably some type of disconnect with you know people like you said especially in communities because like the the people reaching out to get projects done and you know that's the thing that they're looking to

092get done and that's why a lot of those other programs you know are always strong as far as like that because I think they get that exposure. So I think there is some disconnect as far as like I think as far as like getting the word out and that. I think that would be if you're seeing that success at Northeast, I think that's that's a huge thing that hoping we'll look at. >> When it comes to community exposure, too, again, it just takes a collaborative mindsets with these things we play to garnish that exposure. You know, one of our shops in Saigress, we've had uh numerous car shows throughout the time that we've been opened and every year it just grows and grows and grows with the level of exposure social media and in which

093one we had over 250 cars there and just to see if people wanted to come see what we did. They're welcome into the shop. They're welcome to see the different vehicles we've worked on. And it really gained a lot of perspective and exposure. >> Yeah. My father worked at um Nashville High North when they opened that program, the auto tech, and they started a car show program there just spitballing. One of the things we've talked about to get exposure people in uh just just the web that you know, Eric has alone. If we were able to and allowed to have a student driven car show here, I I can almost guarantee if the weather's good, a few hundred cars right off the bat. And that gets students talking. That gets kids interested. They get to

094come in. They get to see finished product. They get to see some gorgeous cars. It gets them excited about something between the flyers talking about it. Students do judging. It really helps. And it also helps raise money. We talked about how much it costs to paint a car. That That's a real world number. It's It's not cheap the material. um as advisers and working with the teachers, if we're able to raise that money ourselves, that takes it off of the school um for the products to put on these cars. And I I can almost guarantee we get to do that. >> Sure. You all sit down. >> Thank you everyone. Um, before we jump into this, this has been shared with all the committee members, but I know we have we have 45 [clears throat]

095or 50 people in the cafeteria. Um, and again, I know uh there was a couple questions from the committee before this as well. So, I do want to go through what we've pulled together on our end. Um, I do want to start by saying as a superintendent at a vocational school, the last thing I want to be doing is sitting here talking to people about what programs we want to close. Um, again, in a in a perfect world, we'd never find ourselves here. We'd never we'd never have to have this conversation, but as we went through this MSBA process, um, we've talked a lot about this. There's been multiple years of us working towards getting to this point. Uh this is something that MSBA requires and as we get deeper into this process, uh MSBA

096is going to take a closer look at this and again if if we decide to um support this, broker something, we are going to have to document to MSBA that we have made some legitimate changes and that they've had a legitimate impact on this or MSBA won't move our project forward. Um, so the other piece that I do want to acknowledge, um, that I think has got lost in some of this conversation, there was a lot of time, energy, um, and resources put into this by the leadership team. Um, those of you that have looked at the timeline, I mean, we kicked off August 19th. Um, we did an in-depth analysis uh from student interest to workforce trends to future openings for 24 different programs uh before this final document was compiled. So, I do

097want to go on the record and thank um Jess Cook, our principal, Danica Johnston, our academic director, and Mike Hurley, our vocational director. Um, they did a ton of work between the end of August and the end of September to pull all of this stuff together. Um, the first thing I I I want to acknowledge is um we did not see any issues with industry demand and I know um I've seen some of the social media stuff. I've had some things shared with me. I've seen some of the emails that have been passed around. Um that was never our contention. We understand we realized that when we dug into this, we looked at the mass hire data. There is absolutely a need for this industry. Um we understand that we get that. Um, but then

098we also kind of had to take a look at as a school, what can we support from a staffing standpoint? Because if we want to add two more programs, that's more staff members, that's more materials, it's more contracted services, it's more technology, it's all of those things. So, we are trying to be um good fiscal stewards of the money that we're that's in our operating budget plus what we're going to potentially ask for as part of a building project. So um we absolutely agree with that. Uh I don't think anybody from our team thought that there was any issue with the industry demand around this. Um one of the things that we heard early on was uh studenttoteer ratios. So we did do a dive here. I think we looked at 11 other schools. Um

099and again this does not include paras and and you know we heard we heard from the auto the autoc collision instructors earlier. We do have somebody that's down there helping out with exploratory. I know some of the other schools I know Whittier has a PAR. I'm not sure about some of the other ones. Um we are significantly below. We have 14 students in that program this year between grades 10, 11, and 12. Um so we have a 7 to one student toteer ratio at this point. Um the next closest one I could find was Franklin County. And Franklin County just added a third teacher this year and has plans to ramp up their enrollment over the next couple years as they kind of grow into having a third instructor. Um, but you can see there's

100some numbers here. I mean, Asabet Valley is as high as 25 uh students per instructor. Um, you know, and again, some of those fall in that 13 or 14 students per instructor range. And again, as we reached out, I heard Monty Techch had a very successful program. I've heard Upper Cape Tech is a very successful program. Um, Northeast has has kind of revitalized or regrown their program as well. So, there are some models out there that that have worked. Um, in going through this, we also took a look. I asked our admissions team to give us to give me to give the school committee some comparisons. Um, you know, what is going on here? What have we seen? What are the trends? So, we went back five years. So, the class of 2029 would be

101this year's freshman. Um, and then you, you know, we again, we kind of work our way back. Um, we did add an extra year here because we do have freshmen, um, that have already indicated their application choices. So, when we look across this, you know, AutoColision has 10, a dozen, sometimes, you know, sometimes less, sometimes more students, which is in line with some of our other programs. and they randomly chose to include auto technology, health assisting and plumbing. Um, so we are seeing when students apply interest in the auto collision program. That's something that we were able to document. We were able to pull out of the information that we reviewed as prior to this. Next thing we looked at was students going through there. And again, Mr. Ruchi had shared earlier that that number

102has been cut down in recent years. Um, like you said, that was that was before I got here. But in looking at this, we have usually somewhere between 160 and 200 students that explore autocolision. So again, it's not probably the uh most popular one. You know, we look at some of the numbers for the other programs, it's closer to 280 uh the 260 range depending upon which year it is here or there. But there are definitely kids that are opting to go through that program. They're applying here saying they're interested in it. They're going through, they're exploring it, they're looking at that, they're considering all their options. They're looking at at that as one of their uh potential career choices. When we get the final selection numbers, and I did this as an average over

103the last five years because uh it was it got a little got a little busy when I tried to put all the numbers in the chart. Um at the end of exploratory the average of first choices choice number one 1.4 for the last 5 years. Now again how's that compare to others? You can look across that chart. Auto tech is 16.2 health assisting 18.2 and plumbing is 33.6. Um again continue down with the numbers. Yeah, there's it ticks up for second choices, ticks up again for third choices. But I think if we look at the total number of stu the average number of students placed in those programs, five students, that's right in line with what we're seeing this year. We have 14 kids across three grade levels. That's that's very similar to the numbers

104we've seen historically and consistently across the program. If we look at program enrollment um again this these are last year's numbers for 2025 we do have 14 as I said last year there was 19 students in autoc collision um year before that was 16 then it was 12 10 and 12 when you compare that to the um comparison programs there you can see that there's there's a big difference um in 2024 we had 68 students automotive at 59 and health assisting at 77 in plumbing. Um so and then also the school enrollment grades 10 through 12 is that bottom number. So out of 966 kids 19 of them were enrolled in autoc collision. Um so the these are patterns, these are trends. This is what we looked at. We did a dive on all of

105our all of our technical programs and looked at all of this stuff as part of our MSBA uh review. Um, we've heard a lot about supporting local businesses and co-op placement and how those students are essential to building a workforce. 2025, we have five kids out, four students, and then two, two, and two. Um, again, if you look at the other programs, there's obviously um more students participating. We're putting more students to work in those particular career areas. Again, this is another thing that we looked at across trends and numbers and enrollment. Um, the last piece that we looked at, so anywhere from 12 to 18 months after graduation, we are required by the state to do uh graduate uh follow-up surveys. Um, and again, that information is um collected. It it we also have

106to report it as part of our Perkins um filing with the federal government and everything as well. it is a little behind because again they wait 12 to 18 months to do the survey then they collect all the data then they release it. So the most recent um information that's in the system is the class of 2022. So we are a couple years behind but again looking at this um in 2022 we had 317 graduates from Shajene um and as Mr. O'Donnell had indicated earlier, two of those happen to be from auto collision. Um, you can see the numbers as you go across. In 2017, you know, there was 10. That was the big group out of out of that program. So, we've had 26 students graduate from autoc collision in the last five years

107as compared to 101 from auto tech, 123 from health, and 90 from plumbing. Yes, Mr. Fury. Yeah. Can you go back a slide from that? >> Yeah. >> Sorry. >> Okay. So, these are the kids out in co-op, right? You're saying, so I use five in college. What's the percentages there? Because obviously there's a lot less kids. >> So, I'm looking at that as if they had more kids. They don't they would they have a good chance of getting jobs? >> Yeah. I understand just am I reading it right or am I? So, it's it's you know, it's only five, but it's good high percentage of the >> trade is 75% of the program, >> right? So, so you know that and the only other question I have on this like health assistance I can

108see the other two that kind of throws off from like the traditional like why didn't you like if you're going to do health why didn't you use maybe culinary or business tech what made you go with helpless >> I told the admissions people to pick three if those are the three they picked >> so you're blaming >> I'm not I'm not blaming any I just said they asked me the same thing they're like which three should we try >> and why that answer for that >> no pick Those are the two, you know, known programs. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Could you just explain the row that says 74? Are you about to >> I was I was going to touch base on that. So, as part of this grad follow-up survey, um there's things

109we have to we have to report. Is is the student going on to college? Um is it consider considered a a positive placement under Perkins? Perkins has much wider latitude as to what they consider a positive placement. Essentially, if a kid leaves here and goes to work full-time or goes to school, it's considered positive under Perkins. Chapter 74 is stricter. So those ones that say 74 next to them, in order to be considered a positive placement under chapter 74, the student has to be employed in a directly related position within the field or attending post-secary education that directly ties to that career area. So when we look at we had two students graduate in that particular area, none of them were actually working in something directly related to auto body or going to school for

110it. Um you look at 2021, we had five graduates, three of them were working in that trade or going to school for something like that. Again, you can see as you go across. So again, um looking over the last five years, we've had 15 students that are considered a positive placement under chapter 74. Now again, this is one snapshot in time. This is again the 12 to 18month window. Um there are kids that could have gone to work in that career field after that that survey window. There's kids that could have left that career field right after the survey window. Um but that's really the only data point that we have that captures something after the students graduate. >> Yeah. The survey. Did everybody respond to the survey? No. That's what I thought. Okay. >>

111If if we get 70 or 75% we're doing well. >> Um, next slide. Um, I I did, again, this is kind of what led us to this conversation here tonight. I believe um in looking at the 2025 school year. Uh, we're going to spend $257,930 on that program. Uh, again, salaries, tools, contracted services, etc. um 14 students. Now again, we will probably have more ninth graders in there. We won't know how many ninth graders are in the program till after exploratory ends. But for the you know, for the for the sake of argument and you take that dollar figure, you divide by 14. Um that works out to just over $18,400 per student. That is just for the shop piece of this. That doesn't include transportation. It doesn't include academic teachers. um it doesn't include

112anything besides the vocational part of the education for these students. Now um there was some questions from some committee members. What is this impact or what does this look like if we move forward with this in a building project? Um I reached out to superintendent from Northeast, superintendent from Tri County. I got estimates that in today's prices in 2025, it's it's between $850 and $1,000 per square foot to build a new school. Um, Northeast told me that it it's actually probably a little bit higher than that, but again, that's what their kind of basis is for planning these projects and what MSBA has been telling them. So, if you look up the recommended square footage per student under the state chapter 74 guidelines, it's 275 square feet per student in the shop area. That doesn't

113include locker rooms. It doesn't include storage. It doesn't include a tool crib. It doesn't include any of that stuff. So again, calculations are based on 6,600 square f feet. That would have 12 students in each grade level. Um again, if we're looking at increasing the capacity of this program, you want to go 15 and 15 for a total of 30 kids. That number is obviously going to climb. Um, based on that square footage, depending on which end of that per square foot range you go on, we're looking at $5,610,000 to 600 6,600,000 just wall, ceiling, floors. Um, that doesn't include equipment. So, again, the spray booth that we just spent half a million dollars on, um, we may be able to move into a new building. I we'd have to do some feasibility around that.

114doesn't include frame machine, lifts, um any of that other stuff. So th those costs are in addition to that. So again, as we move forward with this MSBA project, I think we've all had conversations about the level of scrutiny we're going to get and the justifications we're going to be asked for from our sending communities. So if the committee desires to to move forward with this and keep this program, that's fine. Um we want everybody to be informed about what that looks like, what those potential costs could be. Um, and again, I I will say this again, um, and I'm not trying to sherk responsibility. This is absolutely the committee's decision as to where you want to go. I look at my role and the role of the leadership team to gather the information, to

115share it with everybody, and say, "This is what we found. Here's the numbers. Here's the data. Let's ask questions about it. Let's look at it, and then let's make an informed decision." Um, one thing I did hear about, um, through social media, some of the news outlets, um, was the time frame on this. Um, and I just, I just want to say, um, we were working under a very tight time constraint. But if you go right down through this, so August 1st, our eligibility window opened. August 19th was our kickoff meeting with MSBA. By September 30th, um the draft documents have been completed by the leadership team. Again, we I talked about that a little bit earlier. That was a lot of time and energy that went into that. October 2nd, we met with the

116autoc collision instructors and the department chair to tell them what we had found and what the recommendation in the report was going to be. That was, I believe, a Thursday. Uh the following Tuesday, um the curriculum subcommittee reviewed um and decided to move this to the full committee. Um on the 9th we met with the two instructors and the department chair again to again keep them informed, let them know what was going on um what what had been recommended and what was going to happen. Uh on the 16th uh myself and the and the vocational director met with the advisory committee um and again talked about tonight's meeting um what was going to happen, what they could do, how to advocate for the program. We went through all of those things. Obviously tonight, um the

117committee needs to review and vote upon this and this has to be in by Thursday. Um we have a lot of really tight turnaround times with MSBA. I think it's actually a test. They want to see if we can complete this stuff within the window that they give us. It's it's kind of almost a um an entrance exam, if you will, um to see if as a district we can get this stuff done and submit it to them uh within the time windows that they give us. Um the last thing, oh no, next to the last two more. Oh, Terry, did you have a question? You go with that. >> The other piece that I did want to address is um again and and we we heard it again tonight and and u I get

118it. um advisory board meetings don't necessarily always focus on enrollment numbers and other things like that. But we did go back um you can see back even in 2018 there was recommendations to hold a career field a career fair have guest speakers come in do all of these things. We have probably seven or eight years of recommendations at advisory committee meetings about things to do to address some of the enrollment issues, some of the um outward facing perception of this career area to inform parents about it, to inform kids about it. Um again um some stuff was implemented, some stuff might not have been implemented. Um but again, you know, there's multiple recommendations here. Um I also um met with our previous vocational director. He was in last week for something else and we had

119a conversation. He shared with me that he annually sat down with the instructors in the program and talked about their enrollment numbers, talked about strategies to improve those things. So as a district, we have been looking at this. We have been having those conversations. It hasn't translated to more kids. um you know that that doesn't mean that that's not going to be the case moving forward, but there is quite a history of us trying to do things um to bring attention to this and and try to try to make things better. Um I believe the last slide I have is one of the other things that I read in the press was that the district has has has had a lack of support for this program. Um you go back to 2019, you can see

120we bought a we bought a welding table for the program. We bought a spot welder. Uh we upgraded all the lighting in the shop area. Um in 2022, all new textbooks were purchased to align this with the IICAR curriculum that our industry representative discussed earlier. Um we bought a virtual spray painting simulator and those of you that have been here for open house may have seen that. It's it's actually like a VR goggle and you actually get the paint and it tells you if you did a good job or if if you should find another career. Um, in 2023, you know, the new the new spray booth installation was complete. It was about $450,000. That was that was a sizable investment. And yes, some of it was grant money. Um, actually, Mr. Rapuchcci and I

121um went to the grant award at at Minute Man, I believe might have been one of the first things I did once I started here as new superintendent. Um, and then again, you know, we've we've heard the advocation for uh somebody that may have a little bit more autoc collision background, but we have had a pair of professional down there since December of 2023 um supporting with the nth grade piece of that on most exploratory weeks. So, Misine's mostly an MSBA question. Okay. So I'm assuming that MSBA wants to see that you have a plan for to be blunt under producing programs and but is what we put in this document the word of God. In other words, if we decide, you know, that we need to say [snorts] we'll cut the program to move

122the whole project forward, but meanwhile, because let's be realistic, we're not getting any money and we're not building a school for years. I mean, we're probably five years away. >> So, we say this is going to be our recommendation. Meanwhile, the great people behind us rally. They come to open house. They help us get more experienced professionals. They put in some of their own money and they're able to turn the program around. Fully believe you can. I mean, you guys are all invested. You You put them You put the time, the effort, the money in, you turn the program around. Can we then and meanwhile we're moving forward and we get accepted by MSBA. Can we at that point say, "Look, we fixed auto body. Look at the improvements that we've made. Look at the

123enrollment numbers, look at the post-graduate data, etc. the co-op numbers, etc. We want to recon, we want to reconsider closing that program. Is that those of you who have done MSPA programs before, is that an option? >> So, I did some research around that. Um and yes, so at the end of feasibility when you get to preferred schematic design, everything has to be finalized, but there is an opportunity. There's a there's a small window in there. So it's it's not like we're going to have six or eight months to talk about this, but there is a window in there at the end of feasibility when they start to do um they'll give us three or four here's three or four renovation options. Here's three or four renovation expansion options. here's three or four new building

124options and at that point the building committee will have to go through those and decide what's the best path before that decision is made before those final options are presented there is an opportunity to make some adjustments to think again if we miss something on an academic programming side or we realize oh crap we need 10 science labs instead of eight science labs um there is a little window in there for that >> and ballpark when is that end of feasibility is that a year from now is that two just now >> I believe that's usually about 18 months. >> Yeah. >> I don't have I think July 27 >> July of 27 is what they're targeting. >> I think it's July. >> Can I just mention something because you said there is a small

125window and you might bit and you can make changes. That's a huge change. >> Yep. >> So now you're talking about a feasibility feasibility study that said, "Okay, this is what we say it's going to cost." Now you're saying, "Well, no, we want to put auto body back in." They're gonna have to change their numbers. >> Or what if we went the other way? >> We'd have to put it We'd have to do it at the end of feasibility before they go. >> Put it in there. >> Yeah. >> Why don't I say why what if we did the other? We said we want to leave it in, >> right? But and and in our in our documentation of why are you leaving in a program that has 15 students in it, [clears throat] our

126wording would be we have gotten a commitment from the people behind us. >> You I mean I say you run the risk of when you're meeting with MSBA's board has to approve to move everything forward at every step in this. Now if we have a place at the table and we have time to explain that, that's one conversation. Um, the other thing that could happen is the board could review that and say, "We don't agree with your plan. Um, you're out." >> Okay. >> That's they literally say, "You're come back to us." >> I don't know. >> I've never I've never done Well, again, maybe that is a little harsh, but at some point in time, whether you like it or not, they're the ones that control the cookie pot. >> Yeah. >> Um, if

127Tony, have you ever seen or heard of them denying any of the people who have gone forward for these things? Uh around enrollment numbers I have um I know Northeast originally had a plan I want to say to build a building for like750ish something like that. >> Yeah, we this we went through this because like I said I've been on the committee in Northeast for over 10 years. Basically we were given 18 months to turn the program around and it was kind of not so much written in stone to be honest with you whether the program would stay or go. It's a lot harder to add the program back to the school than to take it away. Um, one way to design it is the way that it is put into the program is you

128take two of your larger programs, put them on the opposite sides of it, put auto body, which I I would rather change it to collision repair because just auto >> story. Put it put it in the middle and if the numbers don't work out your two larger ones, you just dissolve that and then they get the square footage on the two other because what you're going to have to do is if you take us out and then go put us back in. Now you have to go to plumbing, carpentry, and say you're losing this amount of square footage and we have to try to figure out like building a house where we're going to put an extra bedroom. That's basically what you run into. And now you have not just us up here. You have

129a plumbing committee down there or you know I don't have any emails you want. That's up to you, but you're going to have a lot more committees pushing back for more room. It's it's a lot easier to to take it away than to add it in the end. >> Again, just for full disclosure, when I met with the advisory committee, I said we get we get two ends of the spectrum here. we have%, you know, the committee can come back and say, you know, >> we're moving forward this, you know, this is this is what we want to do. Full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes kind of mentality or I mean the other end of it could be, hey, let's talk about, you know, is this is this viable long term? And I I think

130I told you I think we're probably going to end up somewhere in the middle is my my estimation as far as like said they're going to say oh no >> I've done some research have a conversation emails with you and and other people and um and I was thinking if from listening to everything probably better leave it in and then take it out later. And I think going forward from talking to other people if like down the road in a year or so two years maybe two freshman cycles um that if the numbers aren't up MSBA instead of just saying if you're out I think they would just say listen you got to cut that program. I don't think we lose the whole thing because of it but I you know you never know 100%.

131>> You can't be sure. I do have another question though from looking at the different data and the way you put the new shops together the new 20 >> you merge several of them >> we'll merge one >> you only >> and that's because I have this talk in my head I took the pathway programming maybe I read it wrong but I did this and I took it from what which one I'm sure I get the right one may go on a long time. Um, >> is this the one? >> Is this the uh No, not sure. Educational I do have. Okay. So in the educational profile page 13 I tried to on 12 I tried to compare what was in this document for Jesse on page 12 chapter 7 space with this other document

132the pathway program enrollment data >> yeah there's 20 programs there and the way I was reading what is on page 12 you merge business tech maybe they're already together and I just don't know you don't realize it >> business tech hospitality. I got culinary arts with no culinary arts. >> So, >> business tech >> the list I have >> with marketing. Business tech and marketing. >> Yes, those have always been combined. >> And hospitality and >> have always been combined. >> Okay. Then you got electronics and engineering tech combined. Okay. Because because I'm showing set, they're different. >> They're on two different lines. Why are they on two different lines on this? I don't know. >> That's I think the way Cool. >> I think it's the way they reported. >> So that's what got

133me all confused. So you're saying you're only merging the one. >> Yeah. All right. >> And as as Taran had brought up, um so the state has changed the framework that there was a there was a standalone design and visual communications. It was a standalone graphics about I want to say a year ago now. Uh Department of Ed made the made the executive decision to merge those two together. So it's now graphic communications and visual design. So again, as we look at building out a new space, um and and that was also another program that we met with all the instructors and said, "Hey, um you know, you're you all know that this change had happened. We're looking at moving into a new building. What makes sense? How do we bring these two programs together?"

134But also, you know, kind of maintain they're they're kind of unique. Yeah. Our DVC kids are are typically more artistic. um you know, a lot of them going on to art school, you know, want to do more of the design, um the visual arts piece of it, if you will, and a lot of our graphic students are more on the production side, like how do you take those designs and make posters and banners and t-shirts and and apparel and stuff like that. So, um we've already started to have that conversation as well. Um the reason that I don't even know it's conceivable to could you put auto collision >> is that even conceivable? I don't >> I did ask that >> that's another question. Merge them together like you're merging others. Is it >> I

135don't >> I mean the feedback we heard from the advisory committee was >> know better than me. >> Two very distinct programs. >> I know they're definitely you know it's totally different but we had enough space different teachers. I that's just like I'm just thinking of different ideas. That was one of them, >> you know, trying to figure out different options, >> you know, and I'd like everybody to realize that we were actually when it came to us, we didn't know this was happening until the seventh or you know, we had no idea this was happening. We didn't because we're not involved with his team. you know, we're his we're his monthly team, but we're not involved. [laughter] We're his daily team. >> We're not supposed to be >> and we're not supposed to be,

136right? So, and actually when I heard it, I I am on the curriculum subcommittee, but unfortunately, I couldn't make that meeting. So, he was explaining to me and I will tell you I am not for it. I mean, I am not I do not want to take it away. I don't want to take anything away from students and you look at the numbers and all right. So there's five. So what are those five going to do? You know, I mean, and then you hope you can build it up. I mean, I I'm hoping it can be built up. And I, you know, I said that to you. I said, well, what are their ideas? Can we build it up? You know, but if you look at when he was saying, you know, that well, they

137did try things. I'm reading the notice of low enrollment. It doesn't look like they ever tried anything. I mean, it said they it was pack minutes mentioned low enrollment issues. No suggestion. And that's written a few times, >> but I think May 2023 there were some suggestions that were followed and then the next year the enrollment went up, >> right? But then the next year went down, >> right? And it said they they never figured out how to sustain that >> leadership ever come down to the advisory meeting and verbally speaks to the committee because I think we have committee members downstairs that are saying they weren't aware >> that I don't know. >> So I I think from an advisory committee we were like what did I'm sorry. >> Looking at the graduate followup,

138>> um I'm not known for my math skills off top my head, sorry. Um [laughter] but the percentages aren't terrible for auto attack, autocolision versus some of the other shops. Um so the kids who are going into it, you know, seem to be sticking with it similar to the other shops. I am wondering the current proposal is expand four shops, add two shops, combine two shops and eliminate one. Is it all or nothing that what we have to put on this form? Because I would like the idea that we've heard of keep it in with marching orders to the shop to the advisory committee. I look I I checked September 25 to March 2027 is 19 months. So you have 19 months to turn things around. That's like somebody said two freshman cycles. We're happy

139to, you know, let us know how we can help. You put in your time, you put in your money, we put in our time. You know, we'll work together. I'm not we're not abandoning you to this. But like this gentleman said, have a plan for if we are not able to turn it around. the space will be absorbed by these other two spaces because easier to reassle to add. I like that idea and I realize that's not what's in the original proposal. So, can we break up the proposal? And so, we are also subject to MSA MSBA's enrollment projection. That meeting hasn't take place and I was told it wouldn't take place till January. So, this is what we this is this is our this is our leadership team. This is our administration and and

140staff looking at this and saying these are the things we recommend. MSBA could take a hatchet to that thing in January and say your new building is going to be 1100 kids [clears throat] >> and then that whole list is out the window. >> Um because then you know we're not we're not expanding anything. We're not adding new programs. Um you know we we may be looking at reducing the enrollment in what we already have. Um I don't foresee that happening. I do know Northeast, like I said, Northeast experience was when they did their original viability document, I think it was, I want to say 1,750, 18800 kid target, and I think the new school's,400, I believe, >> did get cut down and that's that's initially what made me speak up is my fear is

141if the school already is cutting down on programs, there's no way in heck that they're going to be adding one or bringing one back in just because their numbers went up. That's why it's it's vital if this gets chopped tonight, no matter how good we get the program to go, it's going to be next to impossible to add and it's just a square footage. I mean, going back to the numbers, the kids that graduate, if it shows how many are still in the program after they graduated, like we said, this is a whole web. So, if someone left here and went to work for sign company painting signs, are you still in collision pit? No, I'm at a sign company. You're a zero. You're not there. That's one thing that hurts our numbers, but um

142not to go off subject of the question, but yeah, it's the square footage. It it hurts. Um our our shop at Northeast is is going to be about half to twothirds the size of what it is now and shrinking going from two booths to one. It it's going to hurt. Uh what we need to do things like what what Rachel mentioned when I shop was utilizing every square footage because as you showed, you pay for the square footage of each thing. Um that's why one of the my understandings u what worked with the teachers was when they installed the cross strap paint booth that they did they did that specifically with a dry system everything to be transported in case there is a new school u because that $450,000 if you to a modern day

143one compared to what it cost to go into a school you're probably looking at $600,000 to install a lesser booth than that in today's numbers but to move one over it still meets all indust all the standards that you need to especially with the fire suppression system that's in that and the fresh air systems that uh you guys added when you put it in. So that that's one thing that's helped save quite a bit there. Um but yeah, like I said, the square footage is it's a bit of a killer. Um but if the numbers stay a little bit strong, you still have enough room for the kids that are in there. >> Yeah. So we we may be back having a conversation about prioritizing, >> you know, do we actually expand programs? Do we

144add programs? Um what does that look like? How long have these guys or maybe they can answer how long have they been our adviserss for this program? >> How long have you guys been advisers for this? >> Uh going to actual meetings being truthful that the last one was one of my first uh between opening my shop. I have four kids that post multiple things when I'm in the northeast and I was helping at Essex. Uh Essex watching that program open and then close was like devastating. I don't know if any of you ever saw that. That is that was one of the most gorgeous body shops. if you could speak poetically about a body shop I've ever seen in my life. And walking in and seeing no students in a closing was just eye

145opening. Uh but I I've been working with the teachers since my shop opened for six years now. Uh staying in constant contact. Like like I said, it's crazy seeing the numbers that low because I feel like I must have had more than half your students on co-op. >> Yeah, he has. I had several students. I've had four or five students since I opened. >> CJ downstairs has been on for at least five or more years, right? Yeah, we have several here tonight. Um, it does come down to availability of running late and not many getting out of work to come here. >> Um, so, you know, having timeline to get here running a shop is more difficult, but several advisers are actually in if they're still here in the cafeteria >> wittier since 2015 and

146Lawrence and >> I think my concern is just having that support. That's >> I know all of us are committed. I I've been very active with for over a decade at this point and happy to commit to this school as well. I I wish I had known. I I really do. If I had known that we all feel like >> I think I think one of the charts Tony put up was pretty glaring like you had like 25 like with C. So there's clearly some type of disconnect. >> Disconnect. I don't think that >> I think I think everybody needs to understand was not to Tony touched on it. I mean from even though the K through 12 school like you're on if you're an MSBA it's a dime like you're basically like like I

147agree with Patty I don't I'm not agreeing with cutting any programs and there something you can do to to expand and say like you said at Northeast there's a way to do it but you also have to factor in the MSBA piece which like to your point you you propose something and if you do have that they could chop it basically. So it's basically [cough] that's [clears throat] for people to realize that you're you're basically because you're conceding like if the school's 400 million they reimburse at 50%. You're basically beholdened to their the way they do. So that's another piece that's, you know, a difficult thing that people if people do say we'll do our best to advocate and and grow and all that, you're still at the mercy of whatever the state dictates like

148you're on their their timeline or their their dime. >> You brought back and you show us the shot. >> Everyone everyone in the whole school. It's crazy because you know what everyone everyone pays for taxes. There's more people each year. there's more people in the consensus and we're shrinking the school. Kind of mind-blowing to me. I understand it's a a dollar and cents, you know, figure, especially for a technical school with so many towns involved. But you have more students that are going to be applying than ever and we're making it smaller than it was. It's that's a different discussion, I guess, though, because that goes across the board for all these programs. It's going to look great on paper saying we have this many kids waiting to get in the program. Well, yeah, because

149you let in half the kids you did last year. It's it kind of hurts all around. You know, I find it very interesting [clears throat] that they would cut because we they've been telling us, you know, we've got to accept more students. You got to do this. We got to do something in Massachusetts. And it's like, [snorts] >> okay. >> I mean, the perfect example is is the new building in Minute Man. And I mean, >> and they had outgrown it before the before the facility was finished. >> I mean, it's it's crazy. It's like do you really support technical education or not? And if you do, we either need newer schools. I mean, not not only our schools, then we need extra schools >> throughout the state. >> And I say for Burlington, it's

150above Bedford, but this was the first year we actually had a weight list. I told a selectman well two selectmen in Burlington basically select people sorry uh but basically that the weight is because it's to you need a a more uh bigger school and then the part of the problem is this lottery puts another stress on basically the state has been >> like basically these guys have been put pressure for even that not to change topics but that's another you know >> other agenda >> another agenda but that's another stressor to basically deal with it's just is is dealing with that whole thing. >> That's not one we can do anything about. We need to make a decision tonight. >> Um, now that we have the data that we've or we've been reminded of the

151data, the numbers have been there and we've all experienced it and maybe we should have been more aware of it. a lot of people should admit, but the reality is now in terms of both the accuracy and the integrity of what we're submitting to the MSBA, it would seem to me at least um disingenuous for us to send send them a document and say, "Yeah, we just want to continue all the programs we have because everything's fine." Everything is not fine with respect to this specific program. the kid the kids have and their families to some extent have voted with their feet. Now perhaps they were ill-informed or inadequately informed or all of these things are are possible but I so I think going to make a distinction between trying to save the program which

152would be wonderful and I do think that there's some flexibility in the schematic design phase that's a matter of playing with some uh some numbers on a on a keyboard at the designer's office um to move things around. Now, let's remember it's all a zero- sum game because there's certain number of kids that they're going to go for. And if another 20 kids a year go over to auto body, which might be wonderful, that means probably five of them aren't going to electrical and five of them aren't going to carpentry and find out it's a zero- sum game. And I don't know which way the kids are going to go. But I think for us to submit something to MSBA and say, "Oh, yeah, we plan on keeping everything, even the programs that have been

153on a steady decline and that our students don't appear to be choosing would be the wrong choice. Um, I think the integ, you know, it's taken us a long time to even get here with the MSBA process. I think we need to show them where we're at right now, which is if we had to build the build a new building today or a renovated building, this is probably this would be the choices we would make if unless the committee feels, oh no, we would just choose to keep everything the way and I don't think we can say that with in good faith right now. So I I would personally prefer to see us make that known to MSBA, but I like many of the people here would I'll be glad to be working towards an

154upswing in that program and have the the situation to go back to the MSBA and say we need to make an adjustment. We already know on for our particular school project that we're going to be facing issues about what MSBA will pay for and what they won't pay for. It's in the wonderful set of documents that Jess and her team put together. Um that one of the things we'd like to do is keep the pool. We're going to say that most likely, but we know MSBA is not going to pay for it. And if MSBA said, "Boy, you guys, you know, we said at the last minute or in the the um FA the schematic design phase, we'd like to add back in autocolision." They might say, "All right, you can have it. We won't

155pay for it." But if uh you guys can collect the hat and put in four, five, six million dollar. I mean, I'm not being facitious. That's the way MSBA is. They can they will be flexible up to a point and then there's a point at which they say we're not paying we will pay for this under these circumstances and I feel fairly confident if we show once they see these numbers they're going to say why are you ignoring that reality? So, you think that they'll just say, "Forget you." They won't come back and say this is a problem and then we could possibly take it up at that point. >> They they might. They might. I guess uh Stacy, one of the things I'm thinking is, you know, to to sort of honor the work

156that our the administrative folks have put it together that says we've looked at all of our programs and if we have to make some decisions and and I think we one thing we need I think Tony alluded to this but maybe needs to be clear. We have a commitment to all of the kids that are in that program right now. >> [clears throat] >> Kids will go into that expo in that exploratory in for the for the B they are for the most of this year. >> If if there is a decision to disband that program, any student that's currently enrolled in it has the legal right to complete the program because we've started exploratory this year and we've had kids go through there. Any student that chooses that program at the end of this

157exploratory also has the right to finish that program. So, I mean, you're looking at again, let's say six kids, 10 kids pick it this year. We'd have 10 sophomores next year. We would do away with explo. Again, this is all theoretical. Please don't I don't want to get crucified saying that this is our plan. Um, if if that is a decision that the committee makes, then the class of 2030, which will be next year's freshman, would not have that as an exploratory option. And then that program would slowly as each grade level graduated out that program would slowly work students out of it. And then um the class of 2029 would be the last group of students to graduate from that program. Um people have pointed out, some of you have been around, some of

158you have heard this former Superintendent [clears throat] Lions did something very similar back in 2010, 2011 with the diesel program. Um >> different problem. Okay. It was my understanding at the time that that also wasn't a popular suggestion, but um that allowed us to build that health wing which has opened up, you know, three programs and allow allowed more enrollment in in health, dental, and medical assisting. >> Problem with that is the kids that we graduated could not work >> in a diesel shop because they were too young. >> Okay. Okay. >> But again, there is a history of that. I mean, and they did the same thing. and they slowly phased the program. >> And that's what I was going to say. I have only done this once and there was a real good

159reason for that. Yes. >> I understand what you're saying, Brian, but I'm not saying to keep everything the way it is, but just add it. Show that we know there's low numbers. I We're showing you the data that we know it's low, but we're hoping that it comes up and like it says at the end of the day and if it if say they decide at the end that yeah, you just you got to get rid of the By the time a new school is built, whoever's in there from that day is still going to be in this building. So, it isn't like they we're going to be on I don't believe we'll be on the hook for the to have kids going into the new building if we know in a year and a

160half that it's going to be a >> again my suggestion to this if if this is what the committee decides the direction they decide they want to go. I wouldn't I wouldn't go two years. I think we really need to take a look at the we have another 10 exploratory rotation cycles this current school year in the end of March the first part of April students will select the final programs I think that's the time to have the follow-up conversation to this and again if you know all the all these great people step forward and we can revitalize that and you know and student interest steps up I mean I'm I'm going to call out the elephant in the room it's student enrollment that is the issue with this program. It's not job opportunities. It's

161not industry openings. It's we just don't have kids that are interested in it. I think if you go two years, you're going to be too far into the MSBA project. I think it's going to be too disruptive to try to change a proposal. And again, I think that's also going to bring the eye of MSBA down on us. And I think that they there's probably going to be a lack of flexibility from them. >> Well, it could be that I I would agree with that. But at the end of it, we have to put this in in the next two days. Yep. >> Right. So whether we decide or we only have the one cycle or two, we we'll know more after later on >> if we could extend it to two years or not.

162But I think what the way I'm looking at it and what you wrote was to, you know, put it in there and even like I said with the real things and you know what I want to say because one you mentioned was you your leadership team had a very short window to put this all together and I know I'm more than appreciated of of all the stuff between the chapter 74 viability study and the other study here that um so I don't want to hope they don't take a slight we at me. I can't speak for everybody else who's just like ignoring all their work and and I know how much they put into it. There's a lot of other stuff that's involved in it. So, I'm just saying for myself, I hope if we

163decide to vote today, I personally still appreciate everything and it's nothing. >> I also want to echo that I fully appreciate the amount of work that Tony and Jess and Mike have done in that. I don't want any of you to think that our opinion has anything to do with [clears throat] your confidence that you're we fully understand how you got where you got 12. >> Again, thinking we have two staff members and potentially an aid that's assigned in there as needed. Um 12 kids per grade level. >> I was going to say by by guidelines they're saying 15 to one. I I think that's a little high, but that's just me. in the application to the MSBA, are are you actually having to put numbers down for the various different programs? >> Yeah. Oh,

164this is all spelled out in here. It's on it's if you go to that chapter 74 viability document, >> um it's it's spelled out. Um >> I got it on page two. >> Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm in the wrong one. I'm in the plan here. >> Oh, I see it. Yeah, I'm sorry. We have to list our current enrollment. We have to propose capacity. Uh and then there's a total I mean so our our proposal at this point is 167 seats. Um and again I you know like I had said we got a meet with MSBA in January that number could be significantly reduced based on what they look at and what what what their enrollment projections are >> and if you look at that document so you have auto collision has 15 verbiage which

165you'd get rid of right existing program and put >> I don't know make a number up for the total there because in culinary arts you get 22 and you brought it up to 60. >> Mhm. >> So, you [snorts] certainly could do 15 to 30. >> Yep. >> I mean, we could do 36. I mean, if you want to do 12 per grade level, that's 36 kids. >> But that that's going to that's going to now raise our total to 1645ish 1650 range. >> We can put again I I'm I'm here to facilitate the conversation. Um, Stouty and I had already had a conversation, you know, again, tomorrow morning, we need to add that back in. Um, we will go through and update those two lists and that document will be submitted appropriately. Um, but

1666 months, nine months from now, we may be having a different conversation when we have our enrollment meeting with MSBA. Uh, those all those numbers could go out the window. >> Yeah, they could shatter. You basically you you're saying basically like one of the biggest things for is basically enrollment pressure but basically you say to grow that you need a bigger school but basically when they come in you're on their dime you guys submit something and they just blow it out of the water. And you used Minutemen as an example. Was it like 1,200? How many people how many they had before? And I think it was like 15 towns now. >> 12,300 I think. And I think they're down to seven to 800. >> And they had towns drop out like >> Oh, yeah.

167They did. >> Several towns dropped out. >> And this whole thing is predicated on and again I I had shared it with the chair of our building committee. Um, we had to do a whole we we we had to give like 10 years of enrollment numbers by community, who who applied, who got accepted, who actually enrolled, and then MSBA also goes back on their end and they have a whole database where they'll look at how many kindergarteners are there in our five-cing communities, and they'll project that out and they'll look at how many building permits were pulled, how much, you know, they they'll go through this whole thing, and that is legitimately what drives a lot of those conversations. They don't care that we say we've got 200 we we potentially have 200 kids on

168a wait list. They're going to say, "Well, by our projections 15 years from 15 years from now, the population of school age kids is going to be down 20%. We're going to reduce your number by 20%." End of conversation, >> right? That's a big projection. They'll work all that off from the census because how many one year olds? Okay. And so in 14 years is going to be all these one year olds are going to be of age and assuming they I'm sure they have a formula for how many going to move out of town, how many going to move into town. >> And in our case we have two high schools in every town. So you know we don't know how they predict that the 10,000 kindergarteners in 15 years how many of them

169are going to go to sash and how many of them are going to go to their Yeah. You guys got all these high schoolers. I think they do it. Yes, they do. >> They have a way to figure it out. We don't know what it is. >> The numbers and that's why >> they count. They know from >> Yeah. >> age one all the way up project for how long? But like as you also like you mentioned even if we had not enrollment but if we had people applying say but 2,000 say we can show we get 2,000 kids they could still turn around and say no we're only going to give you a school for thousand. >> Well we don't know what they're going to do. So I think we have to move on

170>> right we don't know. >> All right. So okay so do I have a motion or what do I have? [snorts] I'll make a motion that we go with these two studies but add auto collision to it just all the data that's needed to add to keep collision >> keep the auto collision >> to keep auto collision to no to add to what is we've got in the packet we would have to add auto [laughter] >> I'll second that profile in the 74 >> to add it to that second >> I'll second that motion I just want to I want to make a statement Tony want to thank Your team did an incredible job >> and I've been thinking about it from your side of the table. It's a very difficult thing. >> Absolutely. >>

171I don't want to see people lose jobs. I don't want to see a program being closed. I read those emails. Passionate people. I taught here 30 years. I love this school. It's my whole life. I do not want to see something die. I want to see us how we can bring this back to life. I've had conversation with Dennis and Mark. I know. I know. We got to get What are we going to do? We got to recruit them. Get them out there. I I It's hard. I know. I know. If we go to the state, they're going to say, I know we have that conversation. Excuse me. Go to the state, they're going to say, why is why is this still open? Well, if we have a plan, maybe we could say that. That's

172my feeling. Thank you. >> Can I ask you a question? And I'm not trying to modify anybody's motion. But are we going to put a time frame on this? >> Yeah. >> Are we just going to say that, you know, are we going to find ourselves here in another five years or another 10 years? >> What do you mean by a time frame? >> Like a year? We had talked about you had suggested earlier two two exploratory rotations I I threw out in the conversation. I think we need to look at it at the end of exploratory this year. >> Are we attaching something to that or >> my question is why would you have to attach it if MSB we don't know when as MSBA >> you're just saying that he wants to bring

173this conversation. >> It's a tight window here. >> Can we look at what >> I thought you meant put something in the proposal to them saying we'll know more. That's not what you mean. I'm I'm I'm saying as a I mean we we have this in front of us as a body. What is the body's position on this? Are we are we now just saying >> you know full speed ahead we're going to autoc collision's going to be here until MSBA tells us we can't have it in a new building or are we going to look at this again at the end of this? Are we going to have that conversation and say what's improved between you know with with the input and the um influence of our adviserss. So I guess I'm trying to

174understand. So what you're you're proposing is that when we put if we put it if it vote goes to keep it >> we're going to put it in here but also within this document these documents we're going to tell them we're not >> that's why separate since it's not should be a separate motion. >> If we have if we have a separate meeting you guys are going to get anotherundred emails we're going to have another 50 people in the cafeteria two other emails. >> I know we need two people's emails. So >> I don't have a problem with [laughter] that. >> It's okay. >> Just as one. I I understand what you're saying. I agree with that. >> I can agree with that as long as it's not like I'm just concerned if you put

175that in the >> I don't sorry I don't want to put it in the MSP. I don't think that's as a body this group should should say you guys have till the end of this exploratory rotation. We expect to see 10 first choices. We expect you to get six first choices. >> But I think that's a separate motion. I think it is too because yeah otherwise go into fine. >> So let's move with this and then we can discuss because I have some other questions to say >> but I think it's also dependent on it' be helpful to know what other schools like be referenced northeast. It would be helpful to know because it's like a rock and a hard place book. It's like you're basically saying, okay, you're eliminating a program, you could potentially

176grow, which is I'm like I get rid with Patty, eliminate a program, but it's it's a two-day decision basically when you're on that. So, it's it's kind of like I >> So, based on my conversation with the Northeast Superintendent, they had originally taken autocolision out of their MSBA plan. Now, I don't know when it was added back in, but it may again, it may have been another conversation like this where they said, "Hey, we're going to give you a year to straighten this out." Y >> um it may have been a little further in the process after they looked at the numbers. Um I didn't I didn't ask him all the specifics around that. >> No, that's what I'm saying. It's it's is asking people not saying you I'm just saying generally it's hard to

177make a decision. I know we have to make one, but it's also going to be helpful if we leave it in to Charlie's point, but it's also we're not going to tell the MSBA that, but basically it's also going to be helpful if we have that plan within a year, but it's also going to be helpful to know to talk to other schools because we're not the only voke school in the last. So we have that data to know what they've done like you talk to Northeast, you talk to some of these other schools to find out what they do because just to say that we don't have that and we have other peer schools that have done this. So I think reaching out to those schools and having a plan. So yeah, I don't

178think leaving it in or take putting that in as a as a footnote. Yeah, you don't want to footnote that, but I think if you say within a year, but we got to say with the support of this side and also you have peer schools out there to find out that have gone through this process. I think we need to reach out to a lot of those schools to figure out what they've done to use that in a strategy to figure out because this side can only do one side. So I think that's to to vote how you want but I think that to agree with you have to have some type of plan knowing with it within a year. Well, and again looking fur and again I maybe it is a separate motion but

179looking further down the road if we can say to MSBA we you know the advisory committee came in we gave them you know that school year here's all the here's the changes we saw they got 10 kids they did this that you know whatever it is that's a different conversation if we just say to MSBA well we told them that you know we'd move forward with this and then if we have to take it out we might take it out >> I'm also trying to set us up for success here now hopefully this all of these things fall into place. This is this is a non-starter. We move on from this. The program is makes a a fabulous recovery. We have a whole bunch of students that are interested in it. >> But I also

180want to make sure that those pieces are in place because >> if if it's two years from now and we're having this same conversation, we're not going to have a justification to MSBA about what we did and the time frames that we assigned to it and and what what we did to be accountable. And I think it's going to be a different conversation. So, so can I just I know we're still in a motion and all, but question for advisory. Do we have a commitment from the advisory group that you're able to help this year? >> Yeah, >> 100%. Okay. Short time. We can do it. >> Short time. Yeah, we can do it. >> Okay. Thank you, Brian. >> Um clarifying question. Were we not in in an MSBA process, >> would we even

181be having this discussion or would we be having it with a little less pressure because we have a fail? We have a shop whose enrollment is is sliding and and and quite frankly that's going to raise some difficulty. There's still some issues that need to be addressed about why that's been happening. Um but would we be having this conversation if we weren't in an MSBA process? Not right now. >> But I will say we do have a new director of vocational and technical programs. Um, and Mr. Hurley and I have already had some conversations about having some type of tool every year to kind of look at programs and enrollment and and what's going on in them so that we could have more of a s a systemic approach to this in the future. Um,

182so that adviserss aren't surprised, parents aren't surprised. Um, and again what that looks like, it's going to take us some time to develop something like that and bring that online, but um, you know, potentially in a year or two, that's something that we could be um, we could be utilizing to share that information on a regular basis, which I think is a good thing for us. >> We do. I mean, we have other shops that are underenrolled >> that, you know, not the only one. >> Okay, let's get the vote. Yes. All those in favor of leaving auto collision in >> putting it in there. >> Putting it in. >> All those in favor say I. >> I opposed. >> No. [snorts] >> All right. And I'd like to make a motion that All right.

183Can I Can I stop it before you? >> Of course. >> I'm [clears throat] looking at this and I don't see it the way he sees this at all. All right. [laughter] Sorry. um you can come back to us at any time and say gee I you know I've looked at the numbers again and this I don't think we need to [snorts] give him you know to say okay if it's not done in a year then we want it back you know we want this issue back I'm not in agreement with that because maybe it'll take them two years you know I mean you know let's say next year they get instead of three they got four okay it's an improvement but is an improvement ran up. So, we'll wait another year. I really don't

184want to put a time limit on that. If he wants to come back in a year or two years and say it again, that's up to you. >> Can I You can have a different opinion. >> No, no, no. You want to go first? We do. I was going to suggest I won't make it a formal motion, but how about then we make a motion to the shop as a group to please come back [snorts] in 6 months, four months, January, February, March, you know, something with an update. Not you have a deadline, not you have to get your numbers up to a certain um number by a certain time, but you know like we want to hear in March what you you know what you did and then we'll see in April how the

185numbers played out. You know they can come back and they say we did ABC and then >> the exploratory >> exploratory we can then have the exploratory information. So then we have data from both sides kind of and we look at it again. It's not a deadline per se. It's not if you don't come up with seven kids, we're closing you tomorrow. It's but we want a report in the spring in the early spring of what you you know what what was what worked out. What were you able to do? How was it responded to? >> And I I I will respectfully disagree with Patt. I do I do think we need some hard and fast deadlines around this. Um, the other thing is I think we're you're you're you're postponing kind of an inevitable

186conversation because if we get to April and if there's six kids or there's 10 kids, um, we're going to have, you know, we're going to have the same thing. We're going to we're going to have 50 people here. We're going to have 100 plus emails. We're going to have all of these things. So, I mean, I think this is my opinion, and again, I I serve all of you. Um, and whatever your decision is, I I will absolutely abide by and implement with fidelity. Um, [clears throat] I think having those guidelines from this body is helpful because now people know here's the goal. Here's where I have to get because um, you know, what what Miss Muse thinks is is improvement versus what I think is improvement versus what Charlie thinks is improvement. Everybody's going

187to have a different opinion. And I think it would behoove this group to say here's your target. This is what we want to see in April at the end of exploratory. Um so that they're informed, the advisory committee's informed. Everybody has the information that they need to to proceed forward and know where know where they're going. >> Okay. Can I let me give you another scenario because obviously these are all public meetings. So the MSBA will be aware of what happened here. All right. possibly, you know, I mean, if it was on the news, it was on this, it was right. But if we just leave it and not say, okay, you have to make an improvement by 10 people in a year, and it doesn't happen. Well, then you get the MSBA and said,

188well, it didn't happen. You know, I I I don't like that type of thing to >> But but I think that's the reality, Patty. Like that's what Brian said. It's like they I I not for eliminating program, but you got to live in reality. The fact that basically if they're funding whatever the funding rate is, you're dealing with their like Tony hit the nail on the head. Like you could basically go and say I want to keep you know and they could blow that right out of the water and then sorry [laughter] >> more work. >> I'm also Oh, I'm sorry. >> There are 13 items on the cover [laughter] 920. May I respectfully suggest that we further discuss and have a potential motion on guidelines, deadlines, etc. for the shop at the next meeting.

189>> Okay. >> Because we all have very valid opinions. >> The World Series ended at 250. >> I'm sorry. Yes. >> Just to follow up on I believe really strong back >> strongly in the power of recruitment. Um, and that's why I'm very pleased that Bedford, which only has six kids in the current fresh and graduating class, has 21 kids in class. >> But it's because people made an effort to take a town where people weren't showing any enough interest in vocational and did it. And it took a few but quite frankly it if if necessity is the mother of invention as the great auto body shop uh owner Benjamin Franklin once said [snorts] that if you would if there is no guidelines if there's no time we will wind up with the same situation

190a few months from now and Patty with I respect what you're saying but they sort of like well we'll just sort of see two three years maybe it'll be the same maybe it'll be no that's not going get us anywhere. All those wonderful folks have done incredible work in the last few weeks. People who have never thought about the school are approaching some of us in places. So, good thumbs up on the effort you've made. >> Um, >> I mean, even you mentioned your hair salon. I was in a hair salon today. I got asked about auto body shop. I don't know why, but I did. So, again, good work getting the word out. But if this is not in a in a identifiable time frame, >> but I think I think like six months

191is not long enough. >> I'm just saying we have this whole conversation next month >> because I do not want to be hit till midnight. >> I agree about trying to give them a >> I'm with my dad, >> right? A fighting chance. >> We talked about you've only been getting 13. You used to get 15. Can we bring that up for the rest of the year? I don't know how >> kids have to choose it. >> That's the first hurdle. >> No, for the explorers. For the rest of the explore. I'm sorry. >> Kids have to choose to go into the exploratory. They only do 14 out of 20. We don't make them go through every shop. >> No, no, no. So, I thought >> the schedule's already made. >> That's what I mean.

192So, you can't >> I mean, we can go back and look. I I don't have the data in front of me. My guess is that I I mean, I don't know. >> You don't think there are more than 20? >> Things have changed since my kids came to the school, but they were such a shock they didn't want to go to. >> Yeah. >> So, they didn't. >> So, so that's my point. I'm 52. If you ask me to pick 14 shops here, I tell you, you're out of your mind. I can probably four or five. >> If you got a kid picking all his hands on stuff, >> like all the traditional auto body exploratory as as a student. Yes. >> You got automotive, auto body, metal, fab, machine shop. I can go right

193around all, you know, carpentry, electrical, HBAC, measurement. You got kids there and they want to go into collision but use because they want kids to explore other aven see what other stuff is like that's non-traditional. Some of them kids are they going to be going to one of the medical things and they don't want nothing to do with it. They would prefer to be going to auto body that's not going to auto body. >> That's a logistical thing that I don't want to commit to because that that's also a scheduling issue. Now, that's why I asked the whole freshman class. >> Like I said, to give them a fighting chance, they've been they've lost >> about 40 kids the last few years. >> We have 10 rotations left, >> right? >> What's a reasonable is

194is is one kid from each rotation recruited in an unreasonable expectation. >> Is it six kids out of 10 rotations? >> I go to auto body. >> No, but only only kids that have picked auto body will go through there. We don't force kids to take I mean they have to pick 14, [snorts] >> right? >> So it may be their 13th choice. It may be their 12th choice, but there's also some kids in there that was their first choice or their second choice. I mean >> I know but >> we have 353 52 freshmen. I mean [clears throat] >> All right. >> I'm just trying to talk about it. We all agree to recruit. >> Your your recommendation to as chair is not to put a timeline >> deadline, >> right? Not right now

195because he kept making it shorter and I >> can we can we take this up next time next meeting please? Thank you for that. >> Thank you. >> I do want uh Pat, while you're thinking of it, are we going to vote on the uh through through Gwen? Are we going to vote on the educational profile? Any questions on that? >> The educational profile had to be changed as well. So >> we again the motion needs to be ch >> I would amend the I would amend the motion to say that that need that both of those documents need to be updated to include >> we already voted. >> I make a motion that we accept. >> Well, you voted you voted on the chapter 74 one to include that. Yes. So if you're if

196the discussion is now the educational profile, the motion needs to include the same changes that were in the other document. >> I make a motion that we take the educational profile, make the appropriate changes to reinstate autocolision and vote and accept it the rest of it as is with only the autocolision changes. >> Second. >> I did it. [snorts] Okay, >> you did. >> All those in favor? I >> I >> Okay. >> Yes. I was just going to say, yeah, McKenzie, you do not have to stay. >> No, you don't have to stay. >> I don't get the vote either. So, you don't have to stay or you don't have to stay. As long as you want. >> I know. It's the longest we've ever had. Student rep. I want to stay. You're going

197to learn someday. Someday you'll become a school president. As soon as you want and have to go home to bed. >> How do you get home? [laughter] >> I think we just break your sign for the longest. >> I want it. >> Yours looks different than all the rest of us. 30 years old. That's why. >> Yeah. Are we going back to >> Yes, we're going back to >> Thank you very much. Have a great day. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Hey, you guys are on the clock. >> Don't know what the clock length is, but you're on the clock. Thank you. >> Thank you everyone. >> 2002 >> 200 Mr. >> I did have Mr. [laughter] >> I did. >> Okay. >> Not not auto collision though. >> Oh, thank

198you everybody. >> Thank you. Have a good time. >> Have a great night. >> Hello everybody. Um, so Tony asked me to just come and give an update on the 2025 accountability data for our school. Um, I have a folder with just a couple color printouts um, in case you want to look more closely at some things on the slides here. >> And so um, as I'm sure everyone is aware um, from year to year, the largest factor in determining our accountability rating um, is student performance on MCCAST. And because um I want to do right by our staff here and the great work that they do, I want to first give some context before we dig into those MCCAST numbers. Um the first is we know that this ballot vote happened and it's no

199longer a graduation requirement. And I found this map of Eastern Massachusetts interesting. showing dark green are communities and I circled uh our five communities are uh communities that had high levels of yes um for getting rid of the MCCAST down to the blue which was communities that voted no. So, I was talking to some administrators a few weeks ago from other schools and they were saying, you know, if you look at your sending towns, um, if students come from places where the parents were against MCCAST counting, um, there's a correlation with the students, you know, maybe not taking the exam as serious. And so, we haven't like run data on that, but I think it's interesting to note, you know, many of our communities were in the higher percentages in wanting MCCAST to no longer

200count. So, I think that context is important. Um the second piece and I I have to give credit to Mr. McGrath who you'll be hearing from shortly because he did this analysis for us but Desi gives us um suggested time in taking the MCCAST. So they recommend that students spend four and four to four and a half hours on ELA, 3 to four hours on math and three hours on science. And what Mr. McGrath did here is he took the time students spent on each test. So um in each set of uh of the bars the it goes ELA then math then science and it's the amount of time that they spent and so you can see students who spent more time this is the exceeding expectations and then the average time for students for

201not meeting were very low. So the suggested time for ELA 4 to four and a half hours average time for students who didn't do well 2 hours and 20 minutes. Um, even looking on some of the times for some of the students who didn't pass um, on a 34 question test, they spent 17 minutes. You can't even read all the questions in that amount of time. And I'm sharing this with you because nothing has changed with our staff and the level of fidelity with which they approach preparing students for the exams. What has changed is that the students know it doesn't count and they'll tell us that. Um, and so I just ask that you keep that in mind as you look at the data. So when you go on and all this is from

202Desessie's website on their site on there are two things that they break down for us. The first is our um progress toward improving targets. And so that's where in every accountability indicator they give us a goal or a target to reach and we're assessed not necessarily on the performance but on our movement toward that target. And so we received 36% um which has been labeled as moderate progress on this scale down below at the bottom. We typically are used to being in the meeting or exceeding substantial progress range. Um moderate progress um is still in the not requiring assistance from the state. There were more schools that fell into these buckets than in the past. We're not the only school where students didn't put the same level of effort into the MCAST. And then in

203terms of our accountability percentile, um 69 was our number for that. Essentially, we're performing better than 69% of schools in the Commonwealth on accountability indicators. So these are the indicators that they um that they assess us on. So they break it down into achievement, growth, high school completion, proficiency toward EL proficiency, and additional indicators. And within each they have some uh buckets within that. For instance, under achievement, we have ELA, math, and science achievement on the MCAST. And I'm not going to read each one for you all. There is a copy of this in your folder. And on this side, it shows us the weight. So, achievement is 47.5% of how they determine our rating. Um, growth is 22.5, high school completion 20, and additional indicators are 10. And then you can earn anywhere from

204zero to four points. um on these depending on your performance and so you will see for achievement for MCPASS we didn't hit our target so we did not earn points in those areas um what's really impressive I think is more important and we always beat our sending districts on this is we did get three out of four points in growth for both ELA and math the achievement is just saying you know compared to last year's score average score amongst your students did you progress forward forward. It's not comparing the same cohort. Growth is looking at the eighth grade scores of our students to 10th grade. And so what we do know is students who came here exhibited growth on the MCCAST. Um we always do really well on high school completion. We got 11 out

205of 12 points in that area. Um we don't have an large enough cohort to get rated on progress toward uh EL proficiency, which is why this one is blank. Um and then the additional indicators chronic absenteem chronic absenteeism and advanced homework completion um three out of four and two out of four. And so I know that this is um a lot for anyone who's new to seeing it. And I just wanted to break down an example from each of these big buckets to show you a little more in depth about um what we look at when we're looking at our accountability data. So as we said under achievement, that's the blue area. we have um how students did on each of the three exams. So you have a packet that includes this type of breakdown

206for every single indicator. Um I just brought up the ELA one as an example. So when I was talking about targets, our average score for all students in 2024 was 506.4. Desi set a target for us for this year of 507.9. uh for the 2025 and our student average was 502.2 and so because we had a decline we didn't we received zero points there and we saw a decline across the board and for reasons I've already shared we weren't shocked by that but it's not like the average score dropped to 440 overall it's a drop overall of 4.2 too. And then what they do, and you'll see in the full packet for each of these, math, science, growth, etc., they break down the different student groups. And that's important to us when we look at

207this data um because we know where to target for interventions. Just as an example, in our 2023 data, we saw across almost all of the indicators that our lowincome group of students had declined. So we made a number of changes with how we um put reports out to staff uh how we structure our interventions to target that group and they are no longer showing decline um in multiple categories. They have improved so this is what's important for us there. Similarly um so I used ELA again the next bucket is growth. So although on the achievement it showed us as a decline um because of our level of growth here they tell us we had typical growth high for students overall our lowest performing students exceeded typical growth our students with disabilities had high growth I

208won't read them all but you can see for that um so it's the same test ELA the last slide was just showing what the achievement what the scores were but this is the one showing the growth. In the next bucket for um for high school completion, the example I just put up is our four-year graduation rate. So in 2023, these are a year behind. So that's why it's 23 and 20 25. [clears throat] Um we had a 99.3% four-year grad rate. Um in 2024, 98.2 two, even though we dropped from year to year, because we do so well, the target from the state was 95. So, we still got full points there uh because we're doing so well. And the last example I'll give from the final um grouping is on chronic absenteeism. This is

209something that we've really been targeting um in the past few years. We've seen improvements in. And similarly, [clears throat] it's set up the same as the last few, but you can compare 24 to 25, see what our target is and how we did for each student group. So that's a lot of charts to look at. So Desessie doesn't produce this, but every year I make this chart is a cheat sheet. So basically all of those indicators are listed here. The student groups along the top, and then you can quickly see where we did well and where we need to target for improvement. Again, we know about the MCCAST achievement. Um, that is those are the areas where we didn't get points. Look at all the green though under the growth. We did really well there.

210We continue with our four-year grad and our extended engagement rate. Um, students who take five years to graduate. We're exceeding the target across the board. Annual dropout rate is doing well. Um, but when I look at this, what I see is in addition to continuing to look at MCCAST, we have to [clears throat] continue to target chronic absenteeism. We saw a decline with our students with disabilities and Hispanic and Latino students. So, when we look at attendance data, we're breaking it down by these student groups. Um, and in advance coursework completion, we saw a decline in high need students. High needs is a combination of um low-income students, students with disabilities um and English learners. It's an equation that the department used to uses to figure that out. And so we use this map year

211to year to figure out what we're going to target for improvement. And I'm going to bring you to my last slide because I know you have been here very long. Um so very quickly, what are we doing to drive improvement? Well, the first thing I'll say is we don't just stop and say that's good enough. We're continuing to do things that we know work. high quality instruction, analyzing student performance and adjusting appropriately, having intervention meetings at mid end of quarter with all administrators and counselors. We have a weekly student attendance meeting because we've really been uh targeting chronic absenteeism. Uh we're continuing to try to get that early college designation. That's how we can get those advanced coursework numbers to go up. Um and continue to use our multi-tered system of supports. We're also reviewing

212and updating or adapting um curriculum for core content areas. We're looking at our co course offerings and course sequence. As uh as you know, this is our first year running biology just in grade nine so that students won't take all three MCCAST exams 10th grade year. So, we're hoping that'll show a positive change. Um we're making adjustments to our MCCAST remediation program. Relooking how we do MCCAST testing days. those early release days or not. I'm those uh like where the I don't know how intimately you're aware of MCCAST days, but we had like seniors and study hall and it we need it to be like a regular school day. So, we're working on that. We have a new attendance tracking and notification system. Um and we have a lot of collaboration going on as we're

213working on anticipated changes to the competency determination. We're about to implement uh within the next month attendance makeup days for the first time and we have our guidance staff working on career planning and other updates to guidance curriculum. And above all else, we have committed staff who want to build relationships with students. We know that students do well when they want to be there and they feel known. And so I tried to do that as quick as possible. I know you've been here for a long time, but do you have any questions for me about 2025 accountability data? >> I hope it is. >> Yeah. >> Yes. We knew that there was going to be an issue when MCCAST became >> now I in play and I I saw that I voted no but the

214average person said yeah why not we [clears throat] know a lot of students who just come in and leave it stinks. >> Yeah >> and I don't know what you know >> and and >> I know and I knew what I've discussed and I've discussed with you and Danica Desessie says okay new set of rules coming down the road. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And when I looked at our setting sounds accountability data, um, three of them received between only zero and three points on MCCAST. So, it was pretty consistent with our ascending town and it was our three larger towns as well. So, it's definitely not just us, >> right? >> Yeah. So, so first of all, thank you, Jess. Ton of stuff. >> Um, this slide right here, we don't have a copy of

215>> Oh, um, I can give >> Can you give me I would love to see it. >> Absolutely. Great. Thanks. Can you give us that first slide that showed percentage of how the vote went? >> Yeah, I can give you all that. Absolutely. I'll just share with Nicole and she'll get out. >> Thank you. >> Have a nice day. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Mr. McMahon, sorry [laughter] you had to wait till >> Normally, you would have been home by now. >> His children have been in bed for hours. That's right. >> M. McGrath, you look good. >> Thank you very much. [laughter] >> So, thank you everybody for having me. I'm going to try to go as fast as Miss Cook. Feel free to interrupt with questions as they come up. Um, so

216first I thought I'd introduce myself and just talk about like the who am I. So, um, I am a Bedford a current Bedford resident. I grew up in town. I graduated from Bedford High. I um moved after college to Wilmington. So I was still in the district, just in a different part of the district. Um moved back to Bedford in 2022. Um I'm not an alumni, but I am a father of two, one of whom is a Shashi daycare alumni. So [laughter] the other one is in the pipeline. Um I was in the math department for 14 years, and I spent seven of those years as a department chair. Um I thought at the end I would mention this. So, as part of our uh summer experience with the admin team and also as part

217of opening days, Miss Cook put together like it was a communication activity and basically what it was is an inventory of paired statements. So, two statements that you would read and individually decide which one of them sort of you you related to more. So, after you did the entire inventory at the end, you would just you would go through like a scoring guide that would allow you to fill your answers into buckets to figure out what kind of communication style you have. So, as you can see up there, there's action, idea, people, and process. And we took it two different times, and I forgot what I did the first time, but consistently within a point or two, I was process first, and then very close behind I was people. Um, and I think that it

218sort of speaks to like when I talk about what I've done so far, what I plan to do, and ongoing, that a lot of the things are driven kind of by the process and the people. So, not just the what are we going to do, the why are we going to do it, but the how. So I sort of and it might be my math background. It's all about okay that's the answer but how do we arrive there? So a lot of the the things that sort of we've started this year with are around the process and then getting people the staff members to buy into it because a lot of the changes that we've implemented so far I have to thank the staff um all along with the administration and their support of me

219in a new space in a new role. The staff members here have been great about like buying into what it is that I'm trying to sell. Um and hopefully it's going really well and you'll see in future slides kind of what that looks like. But it was all about sort of the process and then the people. So what's been done so far? Um the first thing was as I onboarded as a new person and I was trying to get an idea of of where everything was. I came from a math department background where we had a file sharing system um for curriculum and lesson plans and that sort of thing. But as I come to find out, all of the different academic areas sort of had their own system. And it just seems sort of

220silly that like as a district, we didn't have like a centralized location for pretty much everything. So what we did is create a Microsoft Teams um that because we're Microsoft school, it made a lot of sense to be able to to build it in that way. And it's permissions protected. As a math department member, I we had an instance where somebody accidentally deleted something that they thought was theirs and it was somebody else's folder and then it took all sorts of edtech work to be able to recover it. So, we made sure that it's password protected so that um all of the staff members can view other folders, which I think is helpful. They can go in there, they can steal ideas and that sort of thing, but they don't um alter or you know,

221delete something that is somebody else's. Um it's a shared space for common resources. In the spirit of trying to get people to collaborate, to share um and to pull ideas and resources, we try to make it that uh lesson plans, mentor plans, emergency sub plans, curriculum, and course resources. So this was something that to be completely honest with you, I thought it's a good place for us to just collect everything we already have. Little did I know that what was going to turn into is people then saying, "Hey, I was thinking I could add that to that because that might benefit somebody else." So it grew legs very rapidly, which I was very excited about because um it took on a leg of its own. Um within those particular department folders, there's an example from

222the math department, their course resource curriculum. So all of the folders are sort of structured the same way. Um we put a management plan template for some of the new teachers. We hope that this will be a place that if somebody is onboarded, you we have a number of new staff this year and the previous year a bunch of new staff that they would be able to come in here and be able to look at examples from other people, steal ideas and basically have an easier time transitioning into Shashene. So I can remember a number of years ago, 15 years ago that is that when I first started, I was kind of just scrambling to figure out like what what is it supposed to look like and and what what is my management plan supposed

223to look like and how am I going to set up my categories and percentages and all that stuff. So um we we hope that this will be a place that they can go to inside each one of the school year folders. So 2025 26 school year and this is in the science department is just a teacher folder so all those teachers can view each others but they only have the edit editing privileges of their own to protect their their things. Um but we can share ideas this way and then that's where they'll put their lesson plans, management plans, uh sub plans etc. So that existed on the academic side and I think part of the role um in in me joining here and this being new to the building was try to create consistency across

224both sides. So the vocational programs is the very same setup. Um they have twi slightly different structure to it but all of the clusters have a folder same thing password protected permissions for shared space safety tests go in here learning guides and projects curriculum and course resources. Now this was a bigger shift. um academics sort of already kind of had a a similar setup. They just had to migrate everything here. For the vocational side, there were conversations where I talked to a shop teacher and they like, "Oh, I think it's like on my desktop somewhere." And I was like, "That's not saved anywhere like really safe, but this computer like blew up today. You lose all that stuff." So, we worked hard on migrating things that were there. Um other people had mentioned that the

225person who used to have that document, I think they retired. So, we were like looking trying to track things and again as Mr. was new and I was new. We were trying to get our feet, you know, on the ground about what it is that we have and where is it. And so that was really the driving force behind creating this and then we thought it would be good for it to be consistent on both sides. As an example, your construction cluster inside the plumbing folder is curriculum. Um, and I thank those guys. They did an unbelievable job. Again, this grew legs. I asked them for some very bare bones things. And if anybody knows the instructors down there, they were very eager to give me even more than I'd ever asked. So everything from

226not just the curriculum that they use with the students, but then the shop projects like the specific documents for every project. So I'm not a plumber and I don't have the expertise, but I could go down there and open up that folder and then I could start distributing those handouts and try to make it run the best that I could. So there's like the entire playbook to the plumbing shop was added in the beginning part of the school year. So again, very excited to see that this took uh like sort of on a life of its own. The next major shift was uh the grade book for exploratory. So, for those of you who have had students come through here, you may remember that when your student went through exploratory, at the end of the

227week, they got one numerical grade that made up their entire experience in that shop. Now, because they got one numerical grade, if at the end of the explore cycle, if a student, you know, potentially wanted a shop and didn't get in, then the questions were, okay, well, I, you know, I know my son or daughter school got an 87, but what what made up that grade? And that usually required from as I understand it called to the vocational director who then goes talks with the shop teacher who then gets like the paper copy or the Excel spreadsheet and then reports back to the parent and there's like a lot of middlemen involved in that process and because we have Aspen and academics was using it like with full fidelity and putting every homework quiz tests

228etc. Thought it made a lot of sense to be able to get the exploratory experience captured in a more complete way. So, in an effort to make it more visible to parents and families and students and also to make it more transparent, every shop was able to provide me with the categories and the percentages they wanted to use that factor into the exploratory grade. And then I was able to build out their grade book for them. Um, part of the plan here is I built cycles one through 13. So, cycle 14 is not built yet. And that was done on purpose because later in the school year, I'd like to have them practice with me copying and pasting cycle 13 into 14 to start to build some of the skills around how to use Aspen

229because I think one of the major hurdles early on was they tried to do this in the past but without a great deal of support and then if they didn't feel like they had a good handle on it, they were like, "It's much easier just to keep it on paper somewhere or to put it in Excel or someplace I'm comfortable with u because I'll keep record of it but I just don't have necessarily the understanding or the, you know, capacity to keep up with So, we just posted um cycle 4 just ended by this Friday. Um we've been following up every week after the cycle ends. We ask them to post their grades for the previous cycle. Um but people have been great. Some of them have already posted it the Friday the cycle ends.

230But there's transparency so that parents and uh students can log in and see exactly what it was that either helped their grade or hurt it. So there was a common thread throughout all the shops between like employability skills as you can see if screenshot at the top safety and behavior participation and then some sort of test or quiz assessment that way and then projects depending on the type of shop. So although they are slightly different and they vary there is a common thread that ties all of the exploratory experiences together. So this is brand new and again this is why I had to thank the staff because without their investment in the idea and will being willing to try it never would have gotten off the ground. So it was an idea that they took

231and ran with and so for that I'm very thankful for them u MCCAST [snorts] data. So, um, Miss Cook already kind of went through this whole thing, but what ends up happening when the state releases the initial, uh, MCCAST information, it's a humongous spreadsheet, and it's got a lot of extra things in there that don't necessarily pertain to like the teaching and learning and the improvement of that. So, I clean that up. I use Aspen to merge in the teacher of record from the previous year and the course they were in and because we have levels, the level of the course that it was. um and then do cohort analysis so we can look at like how the honor students performed on particular questions and then level two and then level three, four, five, etc.

232depending on the subject and then go into department meetings and meet with the teachers and then provide them with the the data so that they can use it to inform their practice and to um ultimately improve the teaching and learning across the school. So that conversation obviously didn't go quite as well as it has in years past because of the vote and because of the lack of um effort not across the board but in some spaces. Uh but English for example was very excited that they got to hold the the essays. So the state releases the written essays that their students, you know, the actual documents, it's a couple hundred pages of PDFs, but then they're excited to see that while this student may not have tried, this other one wrote like a beautiful five

233paragraph essay and it was like all the fruits of their labor there. So those conversations are they definitely have some positive parts to it. Although this year was not um our best overall score ongoing work. Um so I am visiting shops and classroom spaces. One of my favorite things about this job is being able to go out and see the teachers do their thing. Um, I've learned a lot because I've spent time in the vocational setting and as an academic teacher in the past, I just didn't have time to do that and there was no opportunity really. um just because of the schedule, but I've been able to get in there and sort of see what exploratory looks like in action, see what upper classman shops look like, stop by related classes, and then obviously

234I know the math department really well, so I haven't visited them, but I've been out to the other academic areas because what lab science looks like versus an English class that's doing uh reading, you know, dissecting a a poem that's totally different than what I'm used to. Um I am attending bi-weekly director and chairs meetings. So Mr. and his vocational chairs, Miss Johnson and her academic chairs. Um, I attend both of those meetings, which I think is really important because for years they both exist separately, but there's no common thread between. So, I get to sit on them one, take the ideas, the discussion there, go attend the other one, and then be able to say like, okay, well, it sounds like they're doing something similar or maybe it's completely different. And then we have

235to kind of get together on the same page and make sure everybody is consistent. Um, I'm collaborating with Miss Johnson on the following things. Um we're developing some and implementing some common assessments for data collection. So as Miss Cook mentioned like the new CD and the possibility of end of course assessments in the meantime doing some data collection on quarterly exams just to see kind of where we're at as a benchmark. Um we're going to continue that uh consistency building process and and obviously as we prepare for a new master schedule whenever that happens that's going to shift teaching and learning you know curriculum instruction assessment are all going to change in some way. Then I'm collaborating with Mr. pigeon on the MCCAST playing logistics and the upcoming class of 2030s freshman placement testing when

236that happens and then with Mr. Hurley trying to build on the success we've had with Aspen gradebook and then we're updating related scopes and sequences as well as the shop ones. So kind of getting to touch on all of the different places and also work with all the different administrators. I didn't mention here but with Mr. Albert um special ed working with PAR professionals and sort of providing a template for maybe next year how to make it so that we can train them on how they can engage with a teacher that they're paired with a little bit more efficiently. Um and then with Mr. Carlson with the guidance front um the John and Abigail Adam scholarship for our seniors now that um that information is coming out. And then I said longer term goals here.

237Um the first one is just peer observations. This is an idea from one of the shop teachers. They said, "I love going out and whenever they have a chance like for 15 minutes I get to see another shop's um exploratory and I stole ideas in that 15 minutes like oh they do something really cool. I want to try that with my freshman." And I think getting teachers out of their spaces to go see other teachers is a massively important thing because I'm seeing it for the first time now how beneficial it would have been as a math teacher to have seen everybody else once. It's a little bit difficult with the schedule to set everyone free to go see other things, but I think that's something I'd like to see done. Um, identifying professional development.

238So, um, just and I are ongoing conversations. Like the more I go into shops and classrooms, the more it's formulating like my thoughts on what might be useful, but I'm like only a couple months into that navigating the preparation for a new master schedule because again, that's going to shift the entire paradigm what we do. And then I'm continuing and I think it's the most important one to support Mr. Hurley and Miss Johnson. So like their vision of what their programs are going to be and what the people they oversee are going to do is the most important thing. I view myself as like the facilitator for that. So what I can do to help them support them to make that work. That's that's really what this is all about. So that is >> it

239for me. I tried to go fast because >> you awesome and you're just two months into a comment [laughter] comment. I want to say I'm so glad you got the position. already talked about this position about what you want to do and so um you're doing a lot looks like you hit the ground running here and so good luck and I'm glad that we've be able to throw somebody through the ranks and uh so um we're anxious to talk to you sometime down the road and see how things work out so good luck >> thank you the private effort >> yes >> say one thing >> I just I just wanted to thank all of you for adding and approving improving this position that Jeff is in. Um it has been so huge. All the

240directors have so many people who report to them and they just put out fires all day it seems like and to have someone who can just immerse themselves in the teaching and learning side. It's been a game changer. So I know that was a hard decision but it was a really great one and thank you so much. >> Thanks. >> Yes. And I will just echo Jess and I have had many conversations about this. Jeff has been a great choice. Um, I think that he has already kind of implemented with fidelity things that Jess and I had envisioned for this role. Um, and again, you know, we're only we're only a few months into this. So, I I I have great expectations from Mr. McGrath and what's what's to come. So, >> you don't have

241to stay. You have to stay. [laughter] >> We're going back here in nine hours. You should go home. >> Do you want to approve the consent? Yes, I do. >> I'll make a motion we approve the consent agenda. >> One thing about the comment is like the open meeting. If you look at Howard's most recent bill, I just want to note that like 70% of that was related to opening. So I think it's like something we need to think about about like again it's you know response like I think it's something we really need to because that's a huge amount of Tony's time and Howard's time and the the committees or the not us to you know your time you're not it's your but Howard's all spending like legal bills I think it's approve it

242but I think it's something we need to think about what to do going forward to better manage this and and deal with it. Okay. >> Do we have a I didn't hear a second. Was >> Bob. Okay. All those in favor. >> Any opposed? Unanimous vote. >> Time's about to turn off behind you. Uh >> oh, [clears throat] I got it. Um I'm gonna go super fast. All right. Uh committee update. Um I I threw this out there. We don't need to discuss this tonight, but this is something I took last year's budget timeline. Um, I plug the dates in. I know we have some of the joint committee meetings and some of the subcommittee meetings scheduled already. Um, I will share this out with people afterwards. Please take a look at it. The next

243meeting, we can have a conversation if there's if there's any time frames that people want adjusted or you think that we need more time for something, we need less time for something. Um, but we we definitely don't need to uh to to dig through that tonight. Uh October 1st enrollment numbers. Um just quickly uh Bedford up 20%. Nine students 20%. Um they they actually here our overall winner. Burlington was close behind up 19.33% 23 students. U Bill Ricka up you know up about 17. Uh we did see a decline with Tukesberry of of four students. And uh we had a we had a bubble of of a really large class um from Wilmington that I believe has now graduated and worked its way out of there. So our Wilmington numbers are down by about 32.

244Uh overall we're up 13 students. Um again we're not back to where we were uh three or four years ago. Our goal is, you know, our goal is to try to get to that 1350ish range. 1325 1350. Um anyways, we will um we can again we can talk more about that if people have questions. Uh enrollment um we have we have had two students uh depart since I reported in September. We're down to 1292. Um I believe they were ninth graders. Um but we have we have said we had said upper class movement as well. We've had some students that had some attendance issues or or had some other things and decided uh to opt for more of an online or a virtual program um because either from a medical standpoint or or some other

245issue, they they had a hard time getting to school on a regular basis. Uh co-op update. Um again, this is this was October 15th. um 25,266 hours worked. Uh about 48% of our senior classes currently out, 125 employers, uh just over $400,000 in gross wages. Um breakdown um by program um again, I'm sorry, by town. Um you know, Bedford 2, Bill Rea 56, Burlington 10, Tukesbury 30, Wilmington 45. Uh, again, like I said, 143. That number has probably ticked up a little bit since I got those numbers from the co-op office, but um, we've been we've been operating on that that [clears throat] 15th date. So, 15th of each month, I will get those numbers and update them. I do apologize. I've been having some trouble logging in and out of this. It looks like

246I grabbed the older version of this. Um, new staff roles we talked about at the last meeting. Um, I did just want to give people a reminder um, at every meeting. Um the chapter 74 viability document and the educational profile are both due uh Thursday. Um the enrollment questionnaire has already been submitted that went in I want to say two or three weeks ago. Um that one we we kind of just took care of. They were looking for numbers and historical patterns. Um the next deadline that we have is a routine and capital maintenance plan. Um and our facilities director Bob Law and I have already started to look at that. There's a lot of questions about uh what we do, you know, who performs the maintenance in the building, how much money we have

247budgeted, what do we spend on cleaners, um you know, what's in capital, what's in our operating budget. So, we will be working through that document and that is that is something I'll I will bring forward for people to review um before it gets finalized. Um and that was it. I I did have something else on again I I apologize. Um, from the minute I walked in tonight, we've had connectivity issues and I've had to log on and off about three times so far. So, um, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. >> Subcommittee's policy. >> Hi guys. So, um I recall correctly, it's the um second the we need to vote on the admissions policy. Um at the trunk or treat, a question did come up that I followed up with and the people

248that asked the qu and I followed up with Tony. >> Um it was sort of the description about when it goes from um the weight list by town to the overall weight list. It was confusing um how that worked like would there be three number ones like a number one in Bara number one in Burlington a number one in anything and there isn't the way it's done is that you know everybody's thrown in with all their appropriate weights and numbers are picked one two three up to you know 500 and then as they're picked they're sorted by town so that the the list isn't one two three four five six it might be you know 7 20 300 you know we don't know and So each town has a list, but each town doesn't start

249with one and go to whatever the last number is. So that when April 15th comes and we merge everything together, everybody already has an original number. We don't have to pull the numbers again. Did I explain that right? >> That's correct. Y >> and the weight list is different. So the weight list the weight list will be all those numbers combined after the April 17th, I believe, is the date that's in there. >> Third, Friday in April. >> Yeah. They'll all they'll all be merged. But again, because they're pulled in a rank order, however that rank order is, we'll make that we'll make that transition. >> So you you're pulling all of them just in in ranking them once to say if you have 500 outfits >> in the very beginning >> in the very

250that's like a unique unique ID number that's assigned to them and basically you like like Taran had used the example, the first student from Bill Rick may be number 12, maybe number 73. Um and then you know and then the next one could be 200. Um and then you know we'll just we'll go we'll go through as we pull those numbers those will all be posted that will be maintained until uh April 17th and then on that date then it goes you know 12 13 14 whatever's left >> right is kind of like so like we're going to take 350 students let's say each town didn't have their quota so >> that's maintain number 400 could be one of the definite kids it doesn't mean because you're 400 you're not getting in. >> That's right.

251>> I just want to make sure people watching understand [clears throat] that. >> We're also long. We're we're looking at about 330 or 340. >> Whatever. >> We we've taken 350 to 360 the last two years. We're we're in a little bit of a pinch with the cafeteria. Um so we're we're not going to we're not going to go 350 to 360. >> My main point was if they think we're taking 330 and the their number is 400. >> Yeah. the unique identifier number doesn't mean anything because that the totally understand the 550th kid could be the first one drawn, >> right? >> And and I think what he's also trying to say is what number you are on the list isn't necessarily a deciding factor either because >> it's going to go by community.

252going to go. So everybody when they pull the numbers, you have a weight, but your town is not a factor in your weight and and you know, so that you know what your number don't panic about what your number is. Wait and see because you know it'll be done and then it be okay. Here are the first 75 bill kids from Bill Ricka and they're all getting in regardless of whether they're number two, number 300, and number 492. kids to understand. >> So, how does the waiting work? I mean, so kids are going to get >> multiple entries. >> So, okay. So, so explain >> extra ping pong ball. >> Yes. Yes. If if if we're doing the old the old bingo draw, the old Mass Millions draw. Um, essentially, >> uh, we've p we've

253picked three categories. So, any kid that completes an application gets one entry. >> Um, if they if they meet the attendance criteria, they would get two entries. if they meet the attendance and discipline criteria correct or any any combination thereof. >> Um and again >> nobody gets picked twice. >> This this is all done through the database that I mean um the company that we've that we contract with for our admission software has done this in the city of Worcester I believe five or six years. Uh Wister Tech has had a lottery for they were I think one of the first ones in the state to adopt it. Um, so they do have some, and again, that's that's a single district, so it is a little bit different, but they do have some experience with

254with running this. Um, and again, I'm sure there's going to be some growing pains. Um, this if this if this thing goes off without a hitch, I'm gonna I'm going to be shocked. And as always, you know, we re we we re-evaluate it every year and we've already said to Tony correct policyy's already said to Tony and to Andy, you know, we'd like to hear back, you know, in the spring after you do it, you know, how many hairs did you pull out of your head and how many, you know, issues were there, you know, so that we know it's not just, oh, in August, let's discuss all the problems and all the successes. We want to update, you know, sort of as we're doing it. Uh just one quick correction before this moves forward.

255On page four, um I didn't and I didn't can I didn't correct I didn't Yeah, I didn't identify this till earlier today. There's two columns of percentages. The one on the right should not be in there. That should have been removed. Um that was something that was discussed with the policy subcommittee. Um and and the policy subcommittee had recommended to stick with our historical >> community breakdown. So, um, those before we vote on that, I just wanted everybody to know that that will be coming out. Um, that shouldn't have been it shouldn't have been in the draft. It was just something that got missed in the shuffle of all the all the papers. >> We might put it back in in a year or two, but we didn't think it was a good idea to

256add it when we're already having to throw the enticing in the >> something we might revisit. >> Okay. Do I have a motion? I'll make a motion to approve the admissions policy. >> Second. >> Have a second. >> All right. Um, [clears throat] all those in favor? >> I am a conscientious objector. I am voting no because of Desessie. [laughter] >> I think all all tech school are going to say no, we're not doing it. Okay. All right. And the AI policy. >> I know Taran, you want to >> just the first read, we um Tony had spoke Tony and Tony had spoken to some other schools that had policies in place. And so this is what we came up with. >> Our director of educational technology and digital the digital learning was the one

257that did did the lion share of the work on this. Um, and I it was one it might have it I might have been you I forget there was one of the committee members that brought some stuff back from one of the national conventions as well that we kind of used as a as a starting point. >> We intentionally were somewhat vague so that not restrict things and we'll look at it every year. >> But we did kind of agree at the meeting that we needed a policy. So that's why I'm bring it to you. >> Yep. Thank you. You have any questions, comments? >> We are not in position to vote on this. If the vote will be next month, so if you do have you look at it more closely and have questions

258or concerns, >> okay, please bring them forward. >> Okay. Okay. Audit subcommittee. >> Okay. Yes. Uh the audit subcommittee might call with the budget subcommittee. uh was in the interview. I did that for a district treasure. One gentleman had we had two applicants. One gentleman had at the last minute through his name and William James Williams is was the other candidate that we interviewed. Um we all discussed it and if you want to add anything. No, I I uh we were very impressed by his credentials and it was talk of should we reopen his search and Tony told us we're not going to find anybody >> and he >> he told us so you call around and we're lucky to get somebody >> and he was very impressive too because we're just saying pick you

259know we're recommending we are recommending him for board but it isn't just because we're >> worried that there's no one else is going to be that isn't the reason why you didn't impress us. >> So, I also I I made some follow-up phone calls um the end of last week. So, I I talked to Brian Forette who is a superintendent at Triton Regional. Brian is the chair of the crust >> board collaborative. Um Brian said, you know, again, he he's only a handful of times a year that he interacts with him, but he said he's always been very professional, very prepared, um has been very responsive. I did also reach out to uh Robert Jokeella, and I'm probably butchering his last name. um and a gentleman by the name of Eric Bose. Um Robert is

260the executive director at Crest and Eric Bose is their business manager. Um and both of them had nothing but good things to say. They said even if you know even if Jim hadn't had past experience with it, uh he's very good at finding peer resources. They said anything that they've tasked him with, he has been more than up to the challenge and has stepped forward. and they were they had nothing but good things to say about him um in that role as as district as a well they don't it's not district treasurer for them but he is the treasurer for Krauss >> so this position will be [clears throat] it's a part time obviously um every week tone do we say >> yeah it's it's probably a few hours a week and again we'll there'll

261be some um >> not growing pain some planning of you know what what his role will be is is some stuff done remotely. Um, you know, there's there's some um >> there's not overlap, but there's there's some pieces of it that are being done by other members of the business the business office at this point in time that really should be under his perview. So, we will we will work through those things and figure that out. >> He's done stuff. >> Yeah. I think the other part is the guy who's like he doesn't have like the um vocational like but just you know he's not gonna like to your point you're not gonna find perfect but the guy does have a pretty impressive background in you know public sector he runs his own firm um

262that craft I think he's you know like one of the questions he brought up was like how you going to educate said like he's got some credit and trying to like reach out to different societies like tax collector municipal or treasurer so I think it's pretty good that way so I think it's pretty was answer all the questions I thought was a good I did actually talk to Howard about the his interpretation of law interpretation [clears throat] of law for the treasurer is that it's a requirement for legislator on MGL laws it's vague so it does say it's a requirement to have a treasurer but it doesn't simply say it's a >> it can be a board member but it's more of like best practice is to kind of have that separate role >> I'll

263make a motion we nominate We appoint Mr. Jim Williams to the position of district treasurer. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I [clears throat] think doing the background checks and your resume. Are you going to handle negotiation? >> That's what I was That was going to be my follow-up question. Um there was a salary range posted with the position. Um again, I don't Is this something the committee wants to be the signator on his contract? I mean, he's technically a a committee employee. Um, do you want do you want me to do the negotiations and then um Patty would sign off on you? You tell me. I This is This is obviously >> the salary it did. Was that based on like what was that? >> What I found from other vocational schools?

264Yeah, >> that's probably >> I'd like to get them in here as soon as possible. >> And then I can reach then I can re reach out to you and sign up. Okay, >> that'd be great. Thank you. >> Is that a year? Is it a stipen you're looking at or is like what is it like a year? >> I mean it's a it's really a yearly salary. >> Okay. >> And what will be evaluated at the end of the year? >> Yes. >> Contract [laughter] we discussed that. I want to see hey listen >> I'm hoping for the best here. >> You need some type of followup say pending like we voted them but you need some like amendment or additional >> it's pending cont. >> Pending. Okay. Got very good. Okay, new business

265rules evaluation timeline. >> Just in the essence of time, is there some stuff in here we could table? >> I was just going to move for next meeting. >> I I mean, as as much as I'd love to sit here and talk about goals and evaluation timeline, [laughter] I think that's one that could definitely November. Um I think website contact could make could make it agenda as well. um the open meeting law thing. The only thing I will say is is Miss Stouty has provided the um guidelines. Um uh there is a um expectation that that is an acknowledgement in there. Um and if you read through the book as elected officials, you're supposed to acknowledge that you've received the materials and that you're responsible for the content, blah blah blah. Um I believe we're

266looking for those back at the next meeting. Study. Yeah. Um if you want to if you want to send them back early, you're welcome to. um ma masc um last year. I know I think it was Glenn that had brought the conversation forward and wanted to know how people felt about the resolutions. Um I will defer to this group that is is way outside of my bubble. Um you know I I it was shared with people. We did print them out from the MASC site. I don't know. I read through them quick. nothing really jumped out at me as being really controversial or or provocative, but um I don't want to speak for the committee either. I mean that I think that's something we you know do do you want to take a vote to

267uh task Taran to vote to vote in a certain way on each one of those questions or do you just want to leave it to Taran's discretion as the appointed representative for the committee? >> And feel free if we go that way to reach out to me directly and give me your opinion. Okay, >> that's coming up. >> Let's do that next week with the week after. >> Yes. >> So, we're good with that. >> Um the chapter 70 funding one I do want to put in front of people. >> This is >> Yeah, we have to vote on >> resolution. >> Um on what? >> It says vote >> Potential vote. I mean, >> you basically turned it off to me. >> You want to vote on it? That again that's a to me

268that's a committee decision. >> We discussed this, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, um, we received notification from, uh, the Department of Education. Um, when the original chapter 70 numbers were released, it was it was a $75 in $75 increase per student. Um, once the budget went through the House and the Senate and got all rect uh, all rectified at the end of the summer, that number rose to $150 per student. I think we did the math on that at somewhere around 96 $97,000 increase. Um the state has sent us a letter telling us we need to take action. Uh the first option is to uh add that money to our budget, increase our FY26 budget by that exact dollar amount and then we would have to send notification to all of our sending communities. It does

269not change their assessments. So they don't have to re they don't have to reconvene and revote on it. They have 45 days um to get together, to meet, to challenge it, whatever they want to do. uh they can ignore it and after 45 days it's automatically implemented. Uh my understanding is that's what typically happens with most of these things. Option B is we can go back and we can reduce everybody's budgets based on their student enrollment and or contributions to capital or whatever it is by that dollar amount which would then keep our total budget at the same thing. Um that's a lot of extra steps. Uh and then the third option is some blend of the two. Um, again, we've talked about it in budget. The the my recommendation and I believe what the

270budget subcommittee agreed with was to go with option one. >> Um, and again, if this if this board votes for that, M. Stouty and I will work on uh letters to go out to the town managers informing them of what those [snorts] what that increase is, and you know, we'll add that dollar figure to our overall FY26 budget. >> Okay, I need a motion. Make a motion to accept option one and move forward with option one. >> Yeah. >> Chapter 770 funding. >> So this afternoon >> the first option. >> All those in favor? >> I opposed it was me. I have a second by Stacy to accept the money. Unanimous vote. [clears throat] Okay. future agenda items. We do. Yeah. Tony, do we want to talk about I know the volleyball thing we mentioned

271about you and I had a quick discussion about the MIA's philosophy on these these tournaments and I felt and we we received information from it and we talked I talked to the coach and and it wasn't it was ugly conversation but I feel so bad for the girls and I talked to you and I talked to Jess and I >> we were talking that you know they they slipped one bias here and it wasn't just us and do we want I don't know if Al has to come into the conversation about what's the future of this and how's the MIA treating these tournaments the vocational tournaments do they want them I don't know I don't you getting some feedback or something [snorts] >> yeah I mean is so is that a future agenda item >>

272yeah I was thinking conversation because I I I don't want this to happen again those poor girls >> they worked hard and were told you're not going >> maybe part of that is sort of Um thinking a little bit about the the communication piece um that you know were all the necessary parties informed of this change >> because my suspicion is that they weren't because if everybody knew maybe it wouldn't have slipped through the cracks and I'm not saying that's on us. I'm saying, >> yeah, >> we were allowed to submit the paperwork and then it was when tournament time came around, they said, "Oh, yeah, by the way, you didn't turn this in on the time in the time frame that we wanted it." Which to me sucks. So, >> school was afraid we

273were going to beat them. I guess >> Miss Huberty and I were were having a conversation earlier. Um I I this the superintendent from South Eastern and I were back and forth over a bunch of stuff um the end of last week and um again um Southeastern has a field hockey team. There is one team that is eligible for the state vocational tournament for field hockey in Massachusetts this year. So by default they are state vocational champions because >> they're the only ones that filled out the paperwork correctly and submitted it. [snorts] >> What are you going to do that? So again, that I know there's a lot of stuff around that and I I I did send out something last Friday. It did kind of fall through the cracks. Um parents weren't notified. It

274was actually the student athletes that were notified and and rightfully so. Some parents were upset by that. Um you know, I went back, Jess wasn't aware of that. So we made sure we closed that loop on Friday and sent something out to all the parents and student all the parents and guardians to say and I apologized. I'm like, you know, it I didn't realize that the notification wasn't sent out through the coach or through the athletic director, whoever it was. So, >> I don't know. >> Was there any feedback from the um parents being interviewed by the news? >> I haven't heard anything about that. >> Yeah, >> not yet. No, >> it was on a couple of news channels, but >> I know I know the superintendent from from um Southeastern was in the

275press over the weekend, and again, her and I have had multiple conversations. I've talked to the superintendent from Monty Tech. Um there's again there was eight of us I believe all total. >> You weren't alone. >> I just think it was a lousy job of communication and I don't know if the MIA really I mean as you said I don't know if the MIA is like why >> I asked a few more questions today. >> My understand so this was a new process this year talk about this. >> Oh [laughter] I just want to Yeah. I'm sorry. I just was, you know, I listen to I listen to the coach and the team and >> remember what you learned today and tell us next month. >> I would like to pick up this conversation a

276little bit. >> Thanks. Sorry. >> All right. Kent, what was it that you wanted? >> Oh, yes. For so I talked to Tony about um might have been misation, but with to authorize Tony to go and look at firms to do an internal audit to basically get some costs and come back. I I did mention there's one firm in they did one in Burlington. I think we're going that rabbit hole, but I'm going to try and pull a name of that. Maybe come back with some quotes. We might only get one, but that's something I think we need to look at. >> That's next. >> Can we um put reporting about the uh conference on the next agenda just so we can >> share each of us has our marching orders that we know we

277should share something. So those of you that can't go learn something. to do my homework. [laughter] >> You got to do your own homework. I got to do my homework. >> Um, I did not mention this during my update, but there is a year to date budget summary that I left at everybody's >> my apologies. Like I said, I >> was I was having presentation issues. So, >> and then just at the next meeting, can we just have an update to see if all the ML crap has all been cleared? like just to just figure out what just be done with it. >> I believe after we act this evening that is the last of the ones that we have >> and if there hasn't been ones that been responded to can we just close

278it out. >> So every everything has been again as the committee has voted on them they've all been respond this would be the only one that's on stand. >> Okay. motion for oh executive session but the language you want me to read it >> yes >> um so executive se we're going to we're going to propose that enter executive session um for purpose 2 mass general law chapter 3A section 21 A2 to conduct strategy sessions in preparation for negotiations with non-union personnel or to collect or to excuse me conduct collect the bargaining sessions or contract negotiations with non-union personnel and this is specifically in in reference to business office non-union personnel. Um we are also entering for purpose 1 MGL chapter 30A section 21A1 to discuss an open meeting law complaint dated August 29th 2025

279and filed by Sheila Fitzpatrick against the Shasheen Regional School Committee. Uh we will also be approving and potentially releasing executive session minutes. Um and the committee will return to public session for um potential vote on the um contract negotiations. >> Okay. >> So moved >> second. Yori. >> Yes. >> Miss Dora. >> Yes. >> Miss Lawson. >> Yes. >> That was on purpose. >> Oh, I did. Oh, no. You're in a different place. [laughter] I put everybody I put a list. >> You said just to vote on the >> You have to go into executives. >> You have to go. You have to vote when we come back. When we come back, >> we're going to have to come back out three or just the business. It should just be the uh >> Mr. Moffet.

280>> Yes. >> Miss Hub. >> Yes. >> Miss Gillis. >> Yes. >> And do we got everybody >> except yourself? >> And I vote yes. Okay. I need a motion. >> I move that we uh amend the current salaries of two identified uh non union personnel in the business office. retroactive to July 1st, 2025 by the amount uh recommended of $1,000 per month um until further notice of the committee. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I oppose. >> Oh, do you chair votes? I >> want abstension. One letter extension motion >> second. >> All those in favor. >> Any opposed? >> All right. I sensory [clears throat]