Planning Board Meeting: May 5, 2026

001Welcome to the uh planning board meeting of u um May 5th, 2026. Uh first order of business is the uh minutes of the last meeting. >> No, first we're going to do reorganization. >> Reorgan. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, let's >> So, sorry. Yeah. He told me I was gonna um I need a nomination for chairperson which um >> make a nomination. >> Second Joe show. Uh roll call vote. Caljone. Hi. My nini. >> I >> Maras, you can vote for yourself. >> Please. >> Hi. >> White. >> Hi. >> And Wilson's not here. All right. Now, now you're allowed to do the rest of it. >> Okay. >> Because now you're chair. >> All right. >> That's quick. Um so the first order of business is the meeting uh minutes. We're going to

002do the rest. >> Yeah. Nomination for vice chairperson. >> Okay. Make a nomination for uh Chris. >> Second. Um Martha and roll call. Caljone. >> Hi. >> My nini. I >> Maras. >> Hi, >> and White. >> I >> um nominations for secretary, town planner. >> Yeah, yeah, I nominate the town planner. >> I'll second that. >> I don't know if you can, Joe. >> No, >> your chair. >> Okay, I will anyways, but >> Joe Cal, >> please. >> Excellent. Roll call. Caljone. Hi >> mini. >> Hi >> Maras. >> Hi >> White. >> Hi. >> Uh and then we're going to do school building committee rep. >> Keep going, Joe. >> I nominate Joe Calajone. >> I'll second that. >> I can't. >> Sorry. >> No, it's me. He's He's on as a

003planning board member. I'm on as a as I mean he's on as the school committee member. I'm on as the planning board member. My you need you need to second it. >> Second. >> Thank you. >> No problem. Roll call. Caljone. >> Hi. >> Mini. >> Hi. >> Maras. >> Hi. >> White. >> Hi. >> Do we have to do we should do the votes too? No. Liz. We have to do the vote to allow the uh the town planet to sign or no. Can he is he able to sign plans? Yeah, he's still >> Yeah, we usually do that at this meeting. >> Okay. >> Um, so >> make a motion that we allow the town planner to uh uh sign plans approved by the uh board. You can look back on the last

004one and see how that is. >> Yep. >> Correctly spelled out. Something like that. >> All right. So, second >> Martha. Roll call. Calone. Hi >> Mini. >> Hi >> Maras. >> Hi >> White. >> Hi. >> Unanimous. Uh what was the other one? You said you wanted to do school building and um >> I don't know if we need to do uh >> the rep >> the the uh Yeah, the rep for the uh >> MPC thing. >> The Yeah, the what's it? Uh >> regional uh >> regional planning commission rep. >> Let's just do it. regional plan rep. >> That's been me. Matt's been attending. I was attend. I used to uh dial in, but Matt's actually been doing it. So, it it >> anybody can do it. Certainly, I'll continue to do

005it if that's the pleasure of the board, but it isn't that big of a hoe anymore now that Matt's on and attending those. Larry had stopped pretty much stopped doing them. So, I was trying to make sure just to find out if there were any uh grants and stuff available, but Matt's doing that now. So, I will continue if the board wants to wants to do it that way. Although I can't I'm not nominating myself. >> I nominate Joe Caljone to be the planning board's representative to MEPC, the regional planning agency. >> Maybe you second. >> Second. Yes. Uh roll call vote. Uh Caljone. >> Hi. >> Mini. >> Hi. >> Maras. >> Hi. >> White. >> Hi. >> All right. Uh now you can go over to the meeting minutes. Mr. Chairman, I think.

006>> All right. >> Good job, everyone. >> What's the pleasure to vote on the minutes? >> Make a motion. Can we uh accept the meeting minutes uh as presented for the April 21st meeting? Second. >> Um so and there's no further >> any further discussion. Yeah, usually >> I mean actually actually you don't it's a it's somewhat procedural in the >> um >> somebody says something >> calony >> I whether you whether you >> any good >> discussion or not >> I >> Maras >> I Okay. >> So, we got on the agenda, we've got um uh 81P, we got uh 40 Fortune Boulevard. Anybody here representing? >> Yes, sir. >> Please go ahead. >> Mr. Chairman, members of the board, it's pleasure to be before you. My name is Rob Kappic. um council to

007the land owner and as you mentioned this is a request to endorse a plan approval not required under the subdivision control law. I know the town planner uh has given you a letter and also I think a kod plan. Um I took the liberty of putting my third grade school skills to work uh so you could more clearly see uh on this plan which is a copy of the ANR plan. What's shown in outlined in orange and green is the parcel that's divided into obviously the two separate parcels. one in orange, one in green. The uh parcel in, by the way, this uh property is near the intersection of Fortune Boulevard and Cedar Street. I suspect you're all well aware of it. It's the site of the uh Rose store and um this plan shows

008the parcel in green that conforms to the minimum dimensional requirements uh applicable dimensioning dimensional requirements of the IB district. The parcel in orange obviously does not, but uh we've labeled that not a building lot and um therefore most planning boards uh would endorse a plan that shows a lot that doesn't conform to zoning provided it has that sort of a notation. I think the plan is entitled to endorsement. So we respectfully ask that you do so. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Do you want me to read it or do you want >> Yes. Could we read the letter from uh ma'am? >> Uh creation of a new lot known as parcel A consisting of 51,722 square ft to be considered not a building lot from the parent lot known at as the Lowe's property.

009All that is done here is creating a new 18 foot property line that is in unison with the property lines for Mattress Firm and Sinesta Select in order to create a separate in order to separate this parcel from the Lowe's parcel. The 81P properly references all deeds and easements shown on the plan. Uh Matt recommends endorsement of the 81P as shown on the plans dated April 28th, 20 26. I almost it's 2016 approval or endorsement. Yeah, I think he ref he referenced that because I asked him a question about it being part of an approved site plan and wanted to make sure that there were references to any easements or whatever that was on that section because I didn't want to run into an issue downstream. So, as long as he's looked at that and

010said that that was taken care of, I >> Yeah. So, he he did go over um with me the drainage um to make sure. So there's no there's no drainage that goes down the through the there's no drainage pipes that go through that piece that um that they're cutting off >> um on the Sinesta mattress firm side um and then the easement that but there is drainage on the driveway side and it and the easement is properly shown. The other one I was worried about to a certain extent, but I don't think it happens in this one. But I didn't want to get into the same situation we got into on um the old stop and shop site with uh the 99 when we when we separated that they actually had in their thing that

01199 had the right to two entrances on the prop to enter to to their property. By doing that, that effectively eliminated our our ability when they came back to redevelop that. Getting rid of one of those entrances on on 16, which whether that was right or wrong should not be their decision. It should be our decision and it shouldn't be something that sets in someone else's deed that they can't control. But yet, that's what we were stuck with. And I wanted to make sure that there was not that type of situation here, but being where it is, I don't think we have that situation. So, I was more worried about the dra any drainage type situation. So, with that being said and you looking at that, I uh >> I could add that um >>

012if I may. >> Thank you. >> Hard to believe it's been four decades since we >> I was wonder I was wondering if it was the same Robbie Kappic to tell you the God's honest >> workers many years ago and Helon and I suspected that that would be a concern. In any event, um the both of the when I say both of the lots in in pink is the lot that's being subdivided and then in yellow is the adjoining law. They're both subject to something called the declaration of easements, covenants, conditions, and restrictions that was recorded in 2004. And I can go through it if you want suffice in a nutshell the cross easements assuring that each party has the right to to use common utilities and the obligation to maintain them and those utilities

013include uh drain. >> Okay. >> Would that but this is going to be a separate lot right? >> Yes that's right. Uh most likely to be combined with the adjoining quy place to lot. Um but no amount of and by the way the the um document of its terms runs with the land. So no amount of dividing the property can make it go away. The obligation the underlying obligation remains in perpetuity. In fact >> I second Martha's motion >> through all that. >> I'm glad Martha. >> All right. Any uh any further discussion on this? >> Okay. >> Uh Caljone. >> Hi. >> Um my nini >> hi >> Maras. >> Hi >> White. >> Hi. >> We're all set. >> Great. Do I pick that up tomorrow? >> Uh yes, because I have no

014idea where it is. >> No problem. Thank you. >> All right, folks. Thanks a lot. Have a great night. >> You too. >> Seems good seeing you again. >> Okay. The uh next order of business, we have a u a site plan application uh continues from 42126 at 225 West Street. >> Yeah. Um, >> sorry. Can we show Ted and Sophus here too, please? >> No, we're not going to be able to do that. >> Yeah, it should show up on the screen. I Yeah, I'm going to get it on screen. >> Okay, perfect. >> The overall layout didn't change from last time, too. If you have still have the >> Probably not. That's fine. pay whatever he gives me. You can leave it on that one. That'd be fine. Uh, good evening. My name's

015uh, Peter Lavoy. I work with DNL Design Group. Um I was here in front of you probably I don't know a month and a half ago maybe more than that. It's been a while. Um so since the last meeting uh we've done a number of things. Um first we did get we did submit the plans to the Milford sewer department and we got uh sewer approval from them uh at their last meeting which was I think it was last week on the 28th. Um second thing is uh we met with the fire chief in the water department out at the site. Uh uh fire chief had some concerns regarding um a hydrant location access. Um so we do have uh there are two hydrants that are offsite. The first hydrant is up here. It's roughly

016200 ft from the building. And then the other hydrant is over here on this corner. And we're basically 275 ft from the building. He he was fine with access coming through this parking lot here and using those two hydrants to service the building uh because there is no water on West Street. Um so we did take care of all his concerns regarding access and water. So, we did do a we've met twice at the site cuz there was a plan from the water department that showed a water line going through and then there was a line that came to the property line but that there was there's no such stub at the property line cuz if there was we would have we would have added we would have um we would have connected to it

017but the water department had we couldn't find any water stuff that was out there. So then we also did some soil testing. As you can see within the underground basin, we did three test pits that confirmed my design. Um I did resubmit the design, but um Liz hasn't had a chance to to review it. We are still in front of conservation as well, so we still have to resolve their concerns. Um and then let's see. So, I did update my drainage analysis like Liz had asked. I didn't include a small section of grass strip that runs along here because this parking lot has a a patuminous BM. So, everything with above the parking lot would stay in the existing drainage with on the above development. But this grass strip from the back of the curb

018to my property, I didn't account for it on the original design, but I adjusted that and I accounted for that. We are not increasing any runoff, just the radiate um to the wetland over here. We're basically decreasing uh the runoff towards this wetland. So hopefully that'll resolve the issue down on 140 because most of the site goes this way towards that island. Um and now we're going to intercept it and bring it to this underground mason in this location which will um detain it and mitigate it. And then the other interest point was the property line. We're not increasing any runoff because we're collecting everything. This has a burmous berm. We have catch basins here and here and also up here. The roof goes into this um rain garden slash little detention pond and then

019goes out that way. So that'll recharge the roof. This will also get recharged there. Um >> where's the overflow go that Peter >> for this? It goes it goes over here and then just goes down. It's just a emergency overflow that goes down into the existing basin that this development uh discharges into right now. They have an easement for a basin basically in this location here. So that'll just come down and go down to there. Um but we're not increasing any actually decreasing it. Decreasing green volume um to the two interest points. >> So that's infiltration basin not a correct >> not just attention. Okay. Yeah. No, it's interesting. >> I thought so. I just >> Yeah. I mean, the material material was a lot better, too, than what we thought. Both Liz and I

020were very surprised that we didn't hit any ground water like 8 ft and it was really good. Good material. >> I hit ground water on this lower one, but that was it. But it was like 76 in. So um material was good. It was like a sandy a loomy sand. Um, and then the last thing, um, we did have the attorney look at the access easement through here. Um, I did have a letter, uh, from I got a letter late from him today regarding that this this easement. Um, that easement does exist. Um, it's on the plan. It's on the deed. Um, so the intent of the easement was for access in utilities and we're basically using that access in utility easement. Um, we just can't increase it, which we're not going to. We're not

021going to disturb the existing easement there. Um, that was the only I think that was the question from from from the owner of this at 215. That's what I think that um they had a question about. I'm sorry changing it. I don't know. >> Okay. Actually, we are the owner of that building and actually our main sort of thing. So there's a parking lot in the upper parking lot obviously and one in lower and this is primarily for the sake of like elderly and you know patients that you know so what is going to you know when you say eastman is that going to go through our parking lot. >> So it it basically runs from the entrance here and goes over this access all the way to this location. >> So that's this is

022I presume if this is route 140 here. Is that route 140? That's one for you. >> Okay. This is our So this is our entrance to our village. We go through our parking lot. >> Correct. >> So we need heavy equipment to go through. >> No heavy equipment. This the this this facility is for um like plumbers, electricians. That's what I was told. There'll be no outside storage of heavy equipment at all. Even in the special permit that the ZBA gave us, we there is no outside storage. >> So this is our parking lot, right? Are you going to take part of this parking? >> We're not taking >> just using the park. >> We're using it for access. That's it. >> It's a driveway. >> For a driveway. >> Okay. And where is your

023then the truck and the rest of the stuff is going to go through that building. Then say that again. So you know the stuff which is going to go through this sort of part going to go through. >> Is it going to come in here? >> No, it's not. >> Did you notice you bought it? >> Yes. Yes. We have right to access. >> But you're going to take some of our parking. >> We're not taking any of your parking. We're using it as tax through it. >> That's it. >> Just driving through it. >> Just driving just driving through. That's it. >> Having said that, >> so that driving through is still being >> We're not taking it though. So, so the question is this this use that's going to be here is going

024to be basically be off. I the way I'm looking at it, this is a medical building. So, they open at 8. They probably close at 5. Am I right or wrong? >> About 6, seven. >> Right. So, these are going to be carpenters, electricians, plumbers. So they'll come before, like at 6, they'll drive their vans in, pick up their equipment that's inside, and then leave because if if I was a plumber or electrician, I would want to be at the site at 8:00. So when this building opens for for people to come in, they'll there should be nobody here. And there won't I wouldn't think once these plumbers, electricians leave for the day, they're not coming back until typically. Yeah. I mean, there may be some >> That's an assumption. I know because they're going

025to forget something. They could get it late. >> It's not that there's it's not that there's not going to be any traffic through there during the day, but it will be it will there will be a limited amount of traffic during the day. That's just the nature of of this type of business. >> So, I mean again, if this is turning to a way basically there are parking lots here, correct? Correct. So there's nobody living in it. >> No scene. >> No, they're just we're just it's just the driveway. The drive everything is staying the same. >> So you came back. >> We just have a right to drive a vehicle and up to our site. That's it. >> We're not we're not changing the pavement. We're not changing your parking lot. >> They're not

026going to be parking in your parking lot. >> I understand that. I understand that. The problem with that is again a lot of early a lot of sort of sick people and you know with in spite of all these promises they're going to come at 5:00 6:00 there's nobody there's not a police there say look don't come at 9 or 10 or 11 or something they they have the legal right to believe that I I I I think that will come up as a a review because as I've read read these deeds these are easements for uh sewer utility access in There are statements in there that if you want to work on those, you have to do it on weekends and holidays. So to sort of extend that to a full easement, that is

027to say access to 225 west, that is not stated in any of the deeds that are registered at the county county deeds. So you would think something that is definitive to say you have access to 225 that would be spelled out in great detail but that is not the case. It keeps referring to the sewer drainage and utilities all of which we would agree to. That's an easement. The building needs their sewage. They need their utilities. But that did not convey and I think it's a a loose interpretation to say this this means you you have the right of way to do anything you want. That is not the way that thing reads and I've gone over it. I'm not a real estate attorney. You've got to give it to your attorney. We I guarantee

028you there will be a discussion about that uh clause because there it is ambiguous. Uh you know I read a lot. I I think I can understand the words and uh it it's uh it's not clear. >> Was there was there any discussion with the Asylum Street property owners to see if cuz that parking lot that's right there um is hardly used at all. But that the grade is the grade is much I mean it's there's a retaining wall >> the grade there's a retaining wall along the you know along the edge of the property line over here. So I mean it's kind of >> No, I'm I climbed down it. >> Yeah. No, I get it. But no, I mean we had our attorney look at it. Um, and I'll I'll I'll give you

029the letter and he references the the deed and >> can you give us the letter, his letter, and also the the actual wording of the >> copy of the document, >> but I I can tell you right now it may come down to it may come down to you and you having a lawyer. We're not lawyers either. No, nor and and so we can look at it and we can make judgments, but um it may come down to in this particular case uh a legal interpretation outside of this board. But uh u so the other thing is that I mean this is our parking lot. We just spent $130,000 last two years to resurface it and you're going to have all sorts of stuff going through that. Who's going to pay for like you know

030even in the unlikely thing a guy's going to drive through that? that is going to be obviously you know damaged substantially faster than you know some sort of you know patients cars going through that and that's going to be an ongoing things so going to really actually you know something happens to the parking lot how you guys going to be responsible I'd say no >> I know that I mean they're not going to be driving equipment like >> doesn't matter it doesn't matter you if if you walk on it it's not your parking lot we have built it we have spent 130,000 just last two years to basically you make it, you know, appropriate for the patient. You guys going to drive through it all day, >> 7 days a week. >> So that's not

031going to be same parking lot that is going it's not going to stand, you know, he equipment and all that. It's going to be degraded and unless there's in a way that you guys absolutely be responsible going forward should that unlikely thing happen that you're going to be responsible for absolutely maintaining that parking lot, you know, taking care of the snow plow, everything. We surely have no right, you know, to do it. We could have a parking lot that we take care of. We have paid for that's got to be that's got to be what whatever is in the easement to be totally honest. Whatever they whatever the right that was granted in how that was monetarily compensated has to be in there. I I mean to at it at its simplest they have the

032right to do it and there's absolutely no monetary thing and it's it's you that has to fix it or whatever if that's what it says or there could be other things. But >> that we don't know. In the in these say it should be maintained of such what it say exact should like you know I think constructed repaired maintained so that is exactly the deed so that means that I mean they couldn't you know it's just >> well and whatever that is that would that would have obviously that that carries through without this it's part of your deed and it's in there but I again we can find out what it said we can we can certainly look at it for our interpretation but at the end of the day it's legal. It It could

033come down to a legal argument that's beyond this board. We can we can approve the plan subject to us thinking that there is a legal access, but you certainly have every right to to take that easement to court as to what it actually grants or doesn't grant. >> Exactly. I think that sort of that driveway going up is a very narrow one. Again, I don't know what's >> we had them look at and that was one of the reasons why we had them look at the turning radius certainly for the fire department to make sure that they could get up there and stuff and the chief was comfortable that that was okay. And the other thing was that again as as Peter has indicated there what what the intended use is is for no more

034than uh you know step vans in vehicles like that to be using it. So it's not the the expectation is that there's no long trailers, no longer vehicles going up there because we were worried about trying to make that turn. Um you know we understand that that's a tight turn and trying to and trying to come around from that turn. So they did they did look at that for us in in uh you know obviously there is going to be a few more cars turning in there but I it it it isn't a use it isn't a use that produces a lot of traffic. It's not like you have people coming there or not. It's businesses running out of there. So yeah they might come back in the middle of the day or not but

035they're not in and out and there's not people coming up there to do that. So in that sense it is a low a low volume usage. I must admit I am concerned about that. Those guys are usually in a hurry at noon time with our elderly patients on walkers going through. Uh in addition, that is quite a pitch coming off of 140. Uh if you do happen to have a trailer with you, uh God love you because it's going to be difficult to to make that turn, you know, as you give it up. And I think uh Mr. Mini pointed that out. I saw the video of the last one. Uh so uh that that could be a challenge uh there and good things could get stuck as long as there if there's that that

036lane is just about two parking spots wide and so you have two cars you got you know it better be the Indy500 drivers to to get to to go back and forth. There's not a lot of wiggle room there and we'll have cars parked some of which won't you know be quite as far in as they probably should you know because they were conservative and I see I see uh you know the potential of problems. I worry about liability and insurance issues. Uh uh I you know I have never encountered a place where the sort of the owners of a certain lot have eased the travel to another business and by the way a non essentially a non-conforming business to this neighborhood uh uh for this kind of thing. This is it's quite remarkable. Uh

037we would be expected to provide the insurance provide the property to get that easement. I it's it's it baffles me and I think and we're going to we'll we'll have that discussion I'm sure about the easement itself, but it would strike me as uh uh something that really needed to be spelled out. I'm sure the original thing felt there would probably be just another medical building and that would be that. This is this is far outside that this is >> I mean the use is allowed through a special permit and we did get a special permit through the Milford CPA. So, >> right. and not >> well and and and that's why it it may and again I haven't seen the easement so I'm not even going to offer my opinion which doesn't matter for

038much anyways again because I'm not I'm not a lawyer but um you know it could easily come down to that legal thing it based on what the town can regulate and stuff it it's allowed in the town based on the process that they've gone through they've told us that there's an easement there we'll ask and take a look at it as to what that was originally granted or not. There may be some legal stuff that's well beyond us that you guys will need to to take a look at or not and uh and go with it from there. You know, based on what we we've been what we know and what's on there and what the town can control it, you know, there's very limited that that we can do or not do. in, you

039know, I I think you're right. In a certain sense, there hasn't been too many of these where we've had easements through other properties to gain access to a property. And I would say there was none. I there may be one around somewhere, so I wouldn't go I wouldn't go as far as none, but but they are somewhat limited. >> Um >> Well, yeah, >> it clearly shows that it's for access because you're coming over here. There's really no utilities in this easement at all. You know, >> that's not true. the sewer lines. >> They have the sewer is along the along the bottom here and the sewer is through here. >> Yeah, >> those are the two sewers. There's no sewer. >> We can Yeah. I mean, I I I it's probably I don't think

040it's worth arguing that point in this thing without without having the document in front of us or or and again, it may be beyond us. I'd like like to see that. I'd like to get town council's at least opinion to use him. Again, it's not it's not up to him in a certain sense either, but just to get his idea of what he thinks it it reads legally uh would be good before I I mean, I I think we're going to need to do that anyways. I I don't think we can approve it until you've had a chance to look at the drainage, Liz. >> Correct. >> Um I mean, we can at least get rid of the other issues that we had. I think those have been answered. Um but uh you you need

041to look at the drainage to make sure that that was um acceptable and and and okay and then take a look at that easement and get town council's opinion and then go from there. But it it may be a situation where we say based on what the town can approve or not approve, we we say yes. But certainly there may be legal issues well beyond what the town can can govern. I would expect that town council's um >> opinion is going to be along the lines of it's what what they've provided suffices for what we need to approve >> and it's >> you know that and that that's the end of it. >> Yeah. And that's fine. I mean I understand that and that's why I said I he's obviously can't give a professional opinion

042of it. He's not representative to either party. So I'm not trying to put him in that situation. >> That was my point. >> No, I understand that. Um, >> Mr. Chair, if I could. >> Yes. >> It it it occurred to me and I just um suggested to my fellow board member that you >> you might want to talk to your insurer, your property insurer. >> Yeah. >> About this. >> Yes. I mean, we we are certainly attuned to that. Uh, you know, I mean, I'm my perspective may be a little different. I just in terms of I think the one thing the planning board has a a responsibility for is you know sort of community use and how things fit into their community and as we know west street has turned into the medical

043mecca of Milford and it's been very uh helpful to Milford. We're really have contributed to the health and well-being of this community. So we had, you know, from the Kennedy Center down by 140 with a hospital as a urgent care through Dana Farber, Riverside and our complex with the behind us having our neurologists and physical therapists and to our dentists and in our building is aiology. They can't even hear those trucks going up and down. Uh, you know, so you know, I think those are considerations that a planning board should think of. What kind of community are do we have? do do we fit our uh plans to work with our community? And I think that's you know I mean I live here I've lived here since early 80s so I have 40 years in

044this community and I've always seen that. I think the way we've laid things out we have a commercial district uh to our east and a medical district to our west has been very very positive to the town. Unfortunately, just just so you're aware that that that happened organically, the fact that you're there and the other medicals are there, the town, we don't have a medical district in the town. They're all in the same district. And that in that usage that that they're applying for is allowed in that district. So, the town at this point can't say you can't go there because it's not allowed. And that's that's where we are right now. Certainly the planning board can't the if if there was if there was going to be an argument for that it would have

045been at CDA. >> Yes. >> Right. Which which we weren't informed of but uh uh so we did not receive notice. So that was a difficult thing but we didn't have the 21 days I looked at because we weren't in fact I apologize to this board for not showing up previously. The first time I heard about this project including the sale was from the conservation commission. >> And you guys are the property owners? Yeah, >> ZBA should have they been notified. >> Not should have notified them. You You were required to get noticed at that ZBA meeting. >> Yeah. Well, uh >> they can look at it because because what they do is they submit uh >> they submit notific they submit a >> I guarantee >> return receipt. >> Well, I Right. So, we

046that's something worth checking with the legal department. Um you guys can check with our legal department um tomorrow and just because they're the ones that would have sent out the notice. Um and >> that's a critical point. If if you didn't get notice there's an issue. >> We had never heard of any communication sent out the notice. >> No heard from ZBA. >> We did a certified >> Oh, you you give the addresses and yeah, >> we gave that to the ZBA. I >> it's something >> it's some it's something worth looking into. I mean that >> I'll I'll try to remember to myself but um but certainly that's something you should do. >> That changed. That's what happens after 30 years. >> How about u how about storm water? Has a permit been uh

047issued? >> No. So, I haven't reviewed um he made some changes to the uh storm water >> um based on >> the soil testing and I what there was some comments and I'm I yeah and I made some comments. So, um and he got them to me last week, but I haven't had a chance to look at them. Okay. So, that's one of the things that um Okay. I'll >> cut through. >> Okay. >> They did submit a fee and everything. They did they submitted everything they were supposed to. I just haven't had a chance to review it. >> Okay. Any additional uh questions? >> No. I mean, I'm I'm good with it. I I like I said, whether we >> we're continuing, right? Yeah, we're going to have to continue it on because like

048I said, I want L to take a look at the drainage from our end and and and for the level of detail that we can look at it, >> what the easement looks like and stuff. Uh at least have that in our file and the letter from from the lawyer so that we have all those things in our file. >> Okay. >> Um >> I can send it to you tomorrow. >> I mean, I don't have any other just just for Peter's sake. As far as I'm concerned, I don't have any other issues other than those that we just brought up. everything else they've seem to address what you know based on our first meeting and in this meeting they've they've um they've addressed everything. It's just that we haven't had a chance at least

049had a chance to review that but there was nothing new or nothing else. >> Okay. Babe, do you have any questions or comments? >> Uh no. I did talk to the sewer department and they have they're okay but they have to take out two permits. One for Milford and one for Hopeedale. We are working with hotel. So >> um move to continue. How long do we need next meeting? The 19th. May 19th. >> Move to continue to May 19th. >> I should be fine with that. Yeah. >> Conservation. >> When is the next? >> Uh the following week. >> Okay. >> So the 20 something. >> Do you want to do it after? So, >> oh yeah, actually that's probably a good idea. >> Um, so do it. So, do the first >> and say

050instead >> first meeting in >> June, which is the second >> move to continue to June 2nd. >> Second. >> Okay. Any further discussion? I just thought, oh, you're going to use the example of straight up and let him calm through. I think that bees you can do that not do that because they going to obviously demolish the pocket. But I think that's probably the simplest way they have to sum up sort of in addition to insurance. >> One one thing just I just thought of uh with with the fire department. Um is there is because it's that different of an elevation. Did they indicate anything in terms of them being able obviously they can get the fire hy they can get to the fire hydrant but how do they get the hose down to

051the down to the lower site? When I talked to him, he said he would go from the one that was on the abuing property to the >> Well, I think there is a section over here where there is no wall. So, he can >> He can walk down as long as we keep it open on >> It's not great, but it's >> but he can. >> Well, I'm asking that question only because do we want to show something that's graded off that he can make, you know, make sure that there's available access for him so he can actually get >> I'm certain he would love that. I can I can add I can get the toebo there and show me the toe. >> I'm I'm just I'm I'm thinking to myself, okay, do I actually

052expect the fireman to jump 6 ft down to get, you know, over the wall to pick up the hose on the other side? There should be a way down to access it if we're if that's where the fire hydrant that he's going to be using actually is. >> I can add that because we we can't really change the grade on on that property line, but we can change, you know what I mean? We can change the grade on our side. >> Yeah. So if we have to add Phil, we could add Phil to the wall >> like ramp it down. >> Ramp it down to some extent. I mean, obviously this is the fire department coming down. This is an ADA accessible, but I just want to make sure it's cleared and you know, we

053don't have overgrowth and stuff like that that he's got a permanent way to get down. >> Yeah. Okay, >> that's a good idea. >> Sorry, just on a practical standpoint. So, um, this parking lot belongs to us and these vehicles are going to go through and they're going to get an accident or hit somebody or something is our parking lot. And the people going to sue us, you know, and where do this gentleman sent? >> That that that's part of whatever your easement. I mean, an easement is is they I have no idea what happened previously or not, but effectively an easement was granted to that back parking. As part of that, to grant that easement, there should have been a monet I would have assumed there was some monetary value. And I don't know,

054Dr. Paulie, whether it was or wasn't. I'm just saying normally what happens is both parties have some monetary thing which should have encounter and they're going to be taking vehicles there. Whether it did or didn't, I don't know, but it becomes more of a legal issue than a planning board issue. It it's something that we that we can't deal with. But yes, it's it's a true life thing of what happens if there's an accident. Yeah. You're going to get sued because it's your property. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Okay, I think that's I'm reasonably sure that in that easement system, it has to be constructed by whoever is going to use it to be constructed, maintained, and taken care of and the work to be done on Saturdays and Sundays. It did not say that you're

055going to give him a cake to eat it ready and they're going to go back and forth and use it and and basically be not liable for anything. That's not real life. Okay. >> Okay. >> Uh, Cal Jojon. >> Hi, >> Mini. >> Hi, >> Maras. >> Hi. >> White. >> Hi. >> Thank you. >> So, it'll be continued to the first meeting in June. >> It'll also give you a chance to talk to your lawyer, to your insurance, and >> and see where you sit on that. Like I said, it it may not be a decision that this board can um can adjudicate certainly. So it may be outside of this area, but at least you'll be better prepared. >> And critically, we need the to follow up on whether these gentlemen property owners

056here were properly notified of this. >> Well, even if I guess if they >> if they weren't, I think >> well, it's I don't know how that I'm not sure if it affects this board's >> Yeah, I'd say the special permit's not valid. they wereified. >> It depends on if the >> I don't I I'm not a lawyer. >> Yeah, that that that becomes I have no idea. >> I don't know that I've ever >> Do you want to leave me your email and when Peter gets me the um email from his lawyer, I can forward it over to you. >> I don't think it's notific. >> Thank you, Peter. There's multiple owners for that property. All of that it's on. >> Did someone else see it? Did someone stupidly did somebody in the office

057just happen to sign off on it, not give it to anybody? I don't know. Depends on what actually came back to legal up, you know. >> Okay. >> It wasn't legal. That's a different story. >> Point of order. >> Why don't we uh >> email it to you? >> Yeah. They You don't have to stop doing what you're doing. And I have your card. >> Oh, you do? >> Yes. >> That's right. I gave it to you. >> Excellent. Thank you. This is actually I found this at you better. This is right here says these install, construct, use, maintain. >> Yeah, it'll be interesting. I I I don't, you know, again, I'm not a lawyer and stuff. Uh so it'll be interesting to see what they come back with. I don't I'd have to read

058through the whole thing, but that's fine. >> Yep. Thank you so much. >> Yep. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Have a good night. >> Bye, Dr. >> Next order of business number four. Uh an amendment to uh the site plan application continues from 42126 31 Beaver Street, Slick City. >> How you doing? You're not from you're for >> Chris obviously. Um so what I will tell you about 31 Beaver is that um they did pull a building permit for the repair of the wall, but they did but they did so with the original design that was submitted to this board. So, it was not an evaluation or new repair or anything. Um, I talked to John Ericson and uh he agreed that he would not be issuing a occupancy

059permit until not only um was the wall repair complete, but also an entire um site as built was completed and reviewed by me. Um, so that's where he stands on at least this particular um site. I just wanted to let you guys know that. >> Okay. >> Um, I'll >> effectively then he this site does not have I'm not I'm not going to back down from my saying I need I need something from somebody. So he doesn't have an approved site plan right now to put in >> propane tanks. I I would I would I would agree, but I just I just wanted to let you know his his position on that. Um >> his being Eric >> Ericson. um if that to for whatever comfort that gave you guys um on approving the propane

060separately from worrying about I mean honestly I don't even like the I don't even like the entrance the way it is right now. It's you have like one and a half to one slope on both sides. Uh and it and it's high like it's not it from from my perspective as an engineer that's not stable. >> It's not what? >> It's not stable. >> It's not a it's not an entrance. I'm going to tell you, I felt uncomfortable driving my pickup through there because I know that I know that there's no engineer that has said, "Hey, yeah, this is fine exactly how it is until it gets fixed." >> Right now, I don't know that this board can do anything. I'm not even sure that John can do anything. >> Um, >> so you are

061>> until such time as they want to occupy it. I don't know that there >> exactly >> right. Okay. >> And that that we can. But at the end of the day, as far as I'm concerned, what I'm worried about is I don't want I don't want them to fix it. John saying, "Oh, yeah, it looks okay." And we never gotten anything from an engineer that says, "Yes, in fact, I'm putting my stamp on it saying it's okay." That's That's what >> So he would So it it falls under control construction. So he is going to have to get John will have to get a stamp. Um will have to get a construction control document. um as part of the asbuilt you know the site part of that sometimes gets lost in those things but

062I in this particular case I don't think it will >> um but I you know >> question >> you can just tell me to shut up my go ahead Mr. mind any >> I would like to see part of the motion is that if you feel that you need a struct uh structural or geo that the owner pay you be able to pick it and the owner pay for the cost of the structural or the uh go >> the peer review >> if you we already actually I in the last last time it was as part of the new site plan >> for the propane >> propane tank cuz that's all we had. We had already approved this prior babe. So all we had was they came in asking to put propane tanks in. We

063found out that the wall the wall had collapsed. As part of that, we asked him to submit to us in order to get the propane approved to submit to us a letter from a from a registered geotech to say that the wall when it when it's here here's the repair procedure and yes, I'm stamping this repair procedure is this is what this is what we need done. So that's that's where we are right now as far as this board has any control over. >> So So you're saying continue it until we get >> Yeah. Yeah. Until we get that document. >> Until we get a document there. >> Yeah. I don't see any reason to change anything that we've done. That's what we said. >> Whether they whether John's issued it, I don't know what

064he's issu I guess he he could issue it on the old one, but we in fact have something in front of us that says they need to do more. >> Yeah. I don't know that he can require them to do to to do a repair piece like from a building permit perspective. I don't know that he has the ability to do that. But certainly you you have the ability to say that you >> Yeah. When it when it Yeah. When it comes back in the end and it's all done and we don't have a piece of paper, we could say, "No, you're not at opening it. You don't have an approved site plan to do it." >> Okay. Well, right. You know, I didn't >> part of the uh part of the building of the

065wall in the build putting the propane tank is the tank the truck has to come and deliver it and he has to go through the walls to the collapse that might collapse and that's a safety factor with the propane >> especially with the propane. Right. >> Absolutely. >> There's multiple safety factors with it as to what anybody may or may not do. I'm just saying it I think what he's saying is we have a little bit of a leg to stand on why we're not approving the propane. >> Oh yeah. Wow. >> Because I the other thing the the reason I ended up having such a lengthy conversation with John Ericson about it was I found out that they're installing the slides inside the building right now. >> Yeah, that's what I heard. >> Installing

066the what? >> The slides inside of Slick City. Mhm. >> So, you know, they're they're somebody thinks they're opening soon. >> Yeah. Yeah. I would I would I would reach out to the owner to make sure they're aware that this board has no intention to open it until we get that documentation. >> Okay. >> To allow opening. And and you know, if it looks that way, then then I certainly have no qualm to send to the um to the building inspector that he should not he he is not allowed to issue an occupancy permit until they have an appropriate plan, a a completed plan. You know, if there's if there's propane tanks on that site and they're using them, he can't he can't open that site. And we we can send a letter from here

067saying you're opening something that doesn't have an approved site plan. >> And I'll talk to I'll I'll talk to Mark Nelson, too, cuz he won't he won't issue his >> Well, he won't issue his permit for the propanes either. >> Yeah. >> If if he knows that we >> Right. Yeah. That Yeah, it would be good to talk to Mark about it, too, because that that's probably the first one where they'll get some push back that might force them. >> He'll definitely push back. >> Yeah. >> Yep. So as far I I I think we just continue it seeing how nothing new came in. >> Is that a motion? >> Make it one. >> When when do we think this should get continued too? >> I mean I I would just do it to the

068next meeting. >> To the next meeting and see see what we get for updated. >> Exactly. >> Second. >> Okay. Any further discussion? Calone. >> Hi. >> My nini, >> You're on mute, babe. We didn't hear you. Here you go. >> Oh, yeah. Could you repeat the motion? I just could I can't hear. >> It was just a just to continue it, babe. They're under right now. What we had left it as is they need to provide a documentation from a a geotech to provide the repair procedure for the wall in order to get approval for this for the uh propane tanks. >> So this is just to continue it >> and and when you guys probably won't vote on it and by probably I mean you won't vote to approve it until you get

069something on the wall. >> Right. I'm sorry, mayor, before we take a vote. Um, in the scheme of things, it's probably >> Okay, I vote I then >> in the scheme of things, it's probably quite minor, but I wonder how big this maple tree is that's being moved. I mean, it's >> it's not an existing maple tree. It's a >> Yeah, I think it is. >> No, it was planting. >> I assure you it's not. >> Okay. That entire site is I thought they were digging 10t. Okay. >> Thank you. I >> Maras. >> I jumped the gun. I >> Okay, the next order of business is the uh storm water permit at 50 Maple Street. That's Maddock Milit Solar Parking, >> May 19th. Oh, yes. Sorry. No problem. >> I have too many uh

070too many rolls tonight. Take away. I just checked a little bit. Um, thank you members of the board. My name is Christopher. I'm a project engineer for Park Corporation. I'm presenting this project on behalf of Massachusetts Department of Corrections. It's a part of our storm water management permit. Uh, goal of this project is a new 170 space parking lot, solar array, and associated site improvements with the parking lot, including walkways and the associated storm water system. Um, storm water management system has designed in accordance with the master water handbook and local storm water bylaw. Um, prepared system is designed to reduce peak flows for all storm events analyzed and treat TSS and total phosphorus load the matter practical right here. Uh, please note that as a stateowned parcel, this project is exempt from site plan

071review but has applied for a storm water management permit at the request of the town. Um, please note that three waiverss have been requested by this submission. uh the snow permit filing fee, a submission of the draft slip and a small um change in the TSS requirement from 95 to 85%. Um I have discussed all of these previously with the town engineer. Um all of these have been noted as acceptable. Um the last one being assuming total phosphorus loading has been met. Um to run through the storm water real quick. Um I have initially in blue shown here the storm water collection system from the parking lot. Um a series of catch basins and drainage lines that ultimately grow to a flared end section at the infiltration basin. Um storm water initially goes into the

072sediment for bay on site um and is infiltrated in the actual infiltration basin itself. Um, in large storm events, we do have an elder control structure installed as well that will take large storm flows along this purple line down to a drainage manhole and ultimately to an existing catch basin on site. Um, that catch basin in turn deposits storm water from the site over to the stream basically run a year off page that runs through the center of the parcel. Um, there's also been a very deep flow um associated with the basin that in very long storm events. So, just for the hundred-year storm in this case, um there would be an amount of storm water that would flow over land in this case and also ultimately run to the same unnamed stream out to

073the west of the parcel. Um, of note for this, um, this storm water system has been designed for everything shown on the page included all impervious area. This does include the storage building, 10,000t storage building in this location. Um, that is to be constructed at a future date. However, the system has been sized with that in mind. The intent would be that if and when it is eventually built, we would just be stuck in available. Um yeah, thank you for your consideration for this. Happy to answer any questions. >> So, um I reviewed the drainage and I'm um happy with everything. Um we had had some conversations as he mentioned. Um my only concern um that I had was on the hundred for the hundred-year storm where it would potentially go out um the weir

074um area. Um now I wish I had printed it out but I think you said five >> uh a little more than 5 cfs. So it would end up being about half the storm flow goes the control structure from the 100redyear storm and then for about 2 hours you would probably see a degree of storm flow out that >> yeah so 5 CF 5 CFS is I I my concern was not you can have the the flow go out there. Um, I just wasn't sure if we should have the rip wrap um, extend out to the edge of pave so that you're But I think 5 CFS is especially that's it's like 10 ft wide. So, it's not I guess that was my only that was my only potential consideration that I would think of

075for a change. And I'm >> running it all the way down to Maple Street. >> Yeah, I don't I don't know that it's necessary, but >> I'm just thinking in 100 years storm up there that that that's going to be I mean it's just it's just going to be joining flow coming down Maple Street. I would I would imagine. >> That's actually a very good point. >> In the 100redyear storm, one would presume most times drainage utilities are designed with a 25-year storm in mind. As far as capacity goes, one would imagine the year storm Maple Street as a whole is >> what's the slope from where you show it at the end to to uh to Maple Street? Do you know >> from here to here? That is probably about another 3 to 4

076ft of drop. And then it's a little steeper than Maple Street itself. So I think you'd be potentially seeing erosive conditions for let's call it maybe an hour and a half for like I said the 100red-year storm. So, I think it's a legitimate concern to bring up, but ultimately one that is obviously far. >> I mean, to to be honest, if if you're bringing in rip wrap to run a little more rip wrap down a little closer to Maple Street, even if you showed it another 10, 15 feet, what's it going to cost you? It's not going to cost you anything anyway. So, I mean, I don't think it's the end of the world to put it in. Just Just show it and put it in. >> It's not a It's not a big thing.

077But no, I don't I don't think it's going to do much. But at least it'll get it away from from your what you showed is the is the slope that you're building up along there. So it gets you past that back into, >> you know, back into existing grade, whatever it is. >> The river wrap does get over the slope itself. So it would be on view. >> Yeah. But you do you do have some fresh grade lines just past it. And so that's a and that's a good point like the grass >> the grass beyond there is likely going to be more. So you're going to be disturbing that to a certain extent. >> Whatever extend it at least extend it another 10 that last grade would be perfectly amendable to that. >> Um

078relatively minor cost as far as I know. I don't screw about it. Um, so we um I'm not even sure that we needed him to request a fee um waving, but he did cuz I think we put it in the regulation something, >> but >> I'm not sure if we did with the state or not. >> Either way, um I think it makes sense for us to for the board to wave it. Um the waving of the draft SWIP, they still have to to complete a SWIP as part of the project >> is certainly a requirement of the contractor regardless. We have no overre is certainly required as part of this job. >> Um it and um typically >> why don't you explain to people what SWIP is? >> Uh storm water pollution prevention plan.

079>> Thank you. Um so um this was submitted technically before well it was the design was submitted before so I think it's reasonable in this case um to to wave the draft SWIP. Um, and as he mentioned, uh, as Chris mentioned, the, uh, I was more concerned with the, um, with the phosphorus removal than I, than I am with the TSS removal. That's the, that's the piece of storm water that our regulations are really intending to um, target. Um, so he did meet the 90% phosphorus removal. >> 60%. >> Six, I'm sorry. Yes, 60, sorry. 60% phosphorus removal. Um Um, and he is at 80, you know, he's at 85. So he meets the Massachusetts standard for the TSS >> removal. Um, just not up to the 90%. So, I think that's a reasonable waiver

080as well considering we implemented these after his initial um >> application. >> Yeah, it's a little he he didn't apply for the storm water permit because there was no storm water permit to apply for when he first gave me the plans to review and it because it doesn't require site plan review. There was no >> submission. It's it was it's a very unusual case. >> Sounds like it. To be clear on that, the reason why we did initially submit to the town informally was because in our initial design of this this out control structure actually went to this uh manhole in the road. So we went forward the town to request informal approval because we were interacting with the public drainage system. >> The town basically came back and said we don't have sufficient data

081to allow this connection just because we don't know the upstream and downstream effects as a result. So part of the reason we ended up moving this system back into the existing infrastructure rather than trying to bridge a shorter line over to the town. >> Unfortunately, storm water rules changed between session and I review. >> Pretty slick. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Like you're the board. >> You want to do the you want to do the uh >> Oh, I forgot to share. to share the screen. >> 19. >> We don't need to continue this one now. >> No, >> I don't think so. >> I We can just We can just have them correct the uh or add the >> Okay, >> you see that babe? >> Subject to >> Sorry, I forgot to share a

082screen for you. >> Yeah, I can see it. you want to do the the waiver request separately or do them as a group or >> um I mean I'm I'm more than happy saying we uh approve the storm water permit subject to applicant submitting a revised plan showing the extension of the rip wrap and approving the three waivers as requested. >> Sounds good to me. Three waivers. >> We have a second. >> Second. >> Any further discussion? >> Babe, anything? >> No. >> Okay. >> Caljone. >> I >> uh Maras. >> Hi. >> And White. >> Hi. >> Who made that motion? >> I did. >> And Okay. Sorry. Trying to do too many things at once. You're all set. Thank you very much. >> Thank to you tomorrow, by the way. Should you be

083a to change? >> No problem. >> Thank you, Chris. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you for being our first storm water permit. >> Approval. No prize. No prizes for that. You remove the prize. Good night everybody. Good night. >> Have a good night. >> Okay, next order of business. Uh uh zoning bylaw amendments ongoing discussion. Okay. Is that this thing? >> No. If there's anything, >> I would say we should pass over that without Chris here because I think the food truck thing. >> Okay. >> Right. Right. >> The only outstanding one. Right. The others >> Yeah. The others are going to go to fall town meeting. >> Are just going to go to fall town meeting. >> Okay. Uh planning board uh rules and regulations draft. >> There's no update from town

084council uh until after town meeting, which makes sense cuz he's got other things to do. >> Okay. Any uh engine >> town engineer does not have any updates. >> Okay. Chairman updates. U none. Babe, do you have anything there? No. No, I don't. Joe. Thank you. >> He's not the chairman anymore. You are. >> Oh, yeah. >> As of today. >> Well, you know, >> you'll start getting paid soon, too, for being chairman. >> Oh, wow. Great. >> It's a big bump. >> Yeah. All right. Uh, any member updates? >> No, I got nothing. Just I guess just just for Joe >> um just for an update on the uh on the school uh that we are moving forward. uh we should be um we should be getting close to looking at I don't even

085know if I want to call them conceptual but at least uh getting close to what we may be looking at in terms of what it would generally look like in shapes in terms of buildout and where things will fit type uh situation now. So they're uh they've they've they've met with uh members of the high school uh teachers, administrators um in um try to figure out what what they're going to need. They've also they've gone a lot further with the um uh vocational elements of the school. I I think most I think you're all aware that the intent is to go to a uh a traditional high school with a vocational component in it. Some of those and I I'm doing this from memory, but I think we're looking at I think 10 different uh

086uh >> vocational >> outlets. uh four of them would be duplicates of ones that are currently available at BVT. However, those are full and there are a number of students that don't get in which BVT has indicated they do not have an issue with Milford doing that. I don't know if we have the final piece of paper in hand, but um there has been discussions with BVT and I think that's where we sit on those. The others are ones that BVT does not offer and because of the space limitations at BVT, they will not be offering going forward because they just have no place to put them. So that allows us to have other things that um the the principal and the administration feel there are students in Milford that are looking to go into

087those vocations that they're not served right now that they'll be able to to do that in Milford. >> That is fabulous. >> So really nice. Uh obviously there there is a there is going to be a significant um cost component with this. I mean in in terms of putting that in but I think we need to look at it in terms of uh providing for the the students in milit type of opportunity I think is tremendous. Yeah. >> Um and the fact that a lot of our students are not able to get into BVT just in general because they they're fully booked out in in most of the things. A lot of the what this allows to do too by doing it in this sense um is that if you if you were interested in

088just just throwing this out if you were interested in doing carpentry if you go to BVT and that's full what what happens to those students that get accepted into BVT they may not get into their first choice they may not get into their second choice they may not get into their third choice they end up going in their fourth choice they go the year then hoping that that they can then get into their first choice downstream. >> Mhm. >> Here in Milford, if we have it, because it's a because it'll be a joint school, if they don't get into their first choice, they just go back to regular high school. They'll they'll just be in their regular classes as they normally would. And there's really, you know, there isn't that that shift. So it makes

089it it makes it very convenient for them and it makes it easier for them because there will be a limit at Milford or at BBT into how many students can be in any of the uh vocational endeavors. >> Is that a a common or are we the first? >> No, we're not the first. Attelro did it. There are a few that that are now going to that for the same Adelboro Adboro is not in a vocational district my recollection and then uh so they ended up doing it as part of that. I forget whether there was another school or not that was part of it. So uh the the use of the term comprehensive high school which is what what that is um there are there are indicate there are places that have done that.

090So we're not the first but it's certainly not common. >> Yeah. Yeah. And part of the issue becomes very difficult >> if if you are part of a vocational district and you signed those documents however many years ago. It somewhat limits you as to whether you can do this or not. And we're in a some in somewhat of a unique situation because BVT is is pretty much booked out. >> They can't get any bigger. >> We have students that are not being able to go in. So BVT has said, "Yeah, go ahead and do Because in the initial documents that was signed in the 60s, it effectively says you you cannot have vocational for certain for certain things if we have it. So we're able to do that because of the situation we're in. Yeah.

091In Alborough Attboro or North Attboro, I forget which one. They were able to because they weren't part of a vocational district. So they were they were then providing they were sending their students out. If they sent them out at all, they had to they were out district effectively. It was the same as as Milford sending students to Hopedale or whatever it would be as a if it's available slot you could take it but otherwise you couldn't get in from that town. >> That's wonderful. >> So anyways, we should have an idea as to what the you know is it going to be a whole new school we build a a portion of a new building take down what's there now. Um the the fact that we're doing the comprehensive portion of it does may give

092us some flexibility in terms of building out those components and then using those as a regular portion of the school and then tearing down the rest of it and and and then having that because we probably will be in a situation where we're going to have to move students in and in and around that building at certain points in time. But we won't open up the comprehensive portion of the school till everything's all done. the the bigger one of the bigger issues uh will be at the end of the day is to what we do with the as the state likes to call it the madiatorum or otherwise known as the swimming pool. U the swimming pool is not um will not be um reimbursed. It is it's 100% on the town for whatever we

093want to do to keep the pool uh to fix it or whatever. that that that is not a reimburseable expense anymore from the state school building committee. >> What did you call it? >> Natiatorium. >> Natiatorum. >> Yes, that's that's the term if you go through the state the the school building the state school building committee. They list all the things that they won't pay for. Um >> they call it swimming pool. >> I have no idea. May maybe because there's more in it than just >> I was just going to say there's an there's an auditorium above the swimming pool and I'm guessing >> that's still >> I assume it's because yeah there's there's other things besid besides just the pool so that it became knowing knowing what towns did or didn't do trying

094to get money one way or another. you know, they may have argued the fact that, oh, the the showers that you needed to put in, you should reimburse for that, but you don't reimburse for just the swimming pool itself or whatever. So, the term nitorium effectively encompassed that whole building. Whatever is in there, the the stands, the the pool itself, the the showers, the locker rooms, and the administrative, even the administrative and officers won't be wouldn't be reimbured. Anything that you touch in that building is 100% on the town. >> Um, and there there's actually certain some things that actually become sort of penalties on it. >> Uh well, depending on how that mechanical works or not. Yeah. >> Um anyways, that that's going to become because the the committee has pretty much indicated that,

095you know, barring there not being any way the town can fund it. We want to we believe the pool serves a significant >> uh purpose for for the town benefit outside of even the students. >> Yeah. Uh, and we'd like to keep the pool. Um, the other thing that will be of issue, we we locked out in um um the uh uh daycare because that is part of the building. Now, we do get reimbured on that. However, we won't get reimbursed for central admin. Anything that we spend on central admin will be on the town's nickel. And they actually penalize you if you go through the formula because it isn't a straight okay this is central admin this is we're not paying for this. It's like how does that fit into the whole building in

096terms of a cost and stuff. You actually get penalized by having those things in there because of the way that they have to figure out what was the cost for central admin and what was the cost for the pool or things like that will actually get penalized on >> central central admin is all within that >> that front section building. Right. So >> potentially you could put that someplace else, right? And not >> Yeah, we've we've they'll see what they come back with. We've talked about, you know, does it make sense for us to and they'll look at it. Does it make sense for us to build a building on our own outside? Well, one of the things that may work out and I think they're going to take a look at it is can

097we move central admin to to Stacy as part of this because the other thing that we are looking at is moving 8th grade to the high school as part of the construction. Eighth grade will move to the high school. So, by doing that, there may be room available in Stacy that would allow for central admin to be there because we're going to have to pay for it anyways. And if we can just do some work, Stacy needs work anyways. we would be able to put some of that work in there, pay for it anyways and get it and get it done that way and then not have that in there and we don't have to worry about hey what portion of this cost actually goes to central admin which goes to the cost of the

098school. So they're they're looking at that. That's where they are right now is looking at all those options to see which one would come out the best in terms of >> um what we're uh what would benefit the town most dollar-wise. I mean the you know we we will we had a we will have significant portion that's that's reimbursed from the state but when you back out a lot of the stuff that the state doesn't doesn't pay for the numbers actually come down much more that how much the town has to pay. So, it's, you know, it's always interesting. Um, and and some of the numbers have been on on the screen, the public record, and again, I'm speaking from from memory, but, you know, you get reimbursements from the state of 65%. Oh, 65%

099state pays for 65%. Well, at the end of the day, the state ended up paying for 50%, 48%. Because when you back out all the numbers, what they don't pay for, what they don't, what they do, the total cost for the job as you wanted it and what the state paid was was a lot less than that. So we'll see where it comes out. But uh that that's where that's where we are right now at school building committee. We have another meeting tomorrow was you know we're looking we're looking to be able to go or they're looking to be able to go out at the end of the year having plans to be able to go out to the end of the year to go to effectively what would be the 30% design plans. This

100this where we are now will take us to the end of this conceptual design phase. We'll submit to the state building committee. You have to submit you effectively have to submit a plan that says how much will it cost to to effectively do nothing but do repairs. We and the state doesn't pay for any of that, but you have to give them how much is it to repair the building. Then you have to give them, you know, basic um we we put in uh when we originally applied to move seventh and eighth grade up there as well as redoing the high school. So, we have to we we've looked at sizing spacing. They've gone through the the sizing and the spacing and there really isn't a there really isn't a usage where we would move

101seventh up there. Now that we looked at the class sizes for the next 10 years, there's no reason to do that. So, but because we originally asked the state, can we look at this? The state now expects us to at least to some level look at it to then go back to the state and say, yep, we looked at it and it doesn't make sense. we we you know it would cost this much. We have to give them a number and say this makes no sense to spend that kind of money. So we we will submit plans that say this is what it's going to look like for seventh eighth in the in the four high school. >> This is what it is for ETH plus the four high school. This is what it is

102just to redo the high school all within the context of a comprehensive school. >> So that's where that committee is right now. >> Interesting. >> It's a lot going on. >> Thank you for the information. comprehensive idea is fabulous. >> Yeah, that would you know the administration in the school committee um you know come forward with that as part of this and and certainly it makes sense knowing how difficult it has been for students to get into BBT for certain areas >> and and then for not having other areas that >> either the students are not served or we're actually sending them out. I know previously, I don't know how many are now that used to go to Tri Valley >> and and stuff like that because they had certain programs and they they could

103get in there, but you know, we then have to pay the price of of doing that. So, that that cost some money there. So, this would >> take hopefully bring a lot of those students back into the district. >> Good. All right. >> Thanks, Joe. >> Did was there a re-evaluation of the um projection for the student population? No, there is none. The the student population I just the student population was was at the beginning of this and and and the state does not change that as we move forward. Those are the numbers that we will use going forward. So that was done when we first started this. So it was over a year ago that we ended up doing that. >> Right. Which our enrollment was very different then than it is now is

104my understanding. It could be, but they will that the state expects the documentation to be submitted on those numbers that they approved at that point in time. They don't even look to do anything different. >> Okay. Um >> move to adjourn. >> Our next meeting um will be May 19th. >> What's the pleasure of the board? >> Move to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor? I >> motion >> uh >> I >> yeah Caljone I >> he said I >> Yep. Maras >> I >> White >> I uh White made the motion right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. Good meeting. >> Thank you and good night. Good