001We've got the minutes of the last meeting that took place on March 17th. >> Motion to approve the minutes is submitted. >> Second. >> Okay. Any discussion? >> Okay. >> Going to do a roll call since >> Yeah. How many in favor? >> I >> he's abstaining. >> Okay. >> And I >> thanks as well. >> Unanimous with they abstaining. >> Okay. As far as anyone P plans, we have none this week. Um we have u a public meeting uh to discuss the uh section 2.5 enter city uh of use schedule. >> Sir I can read the notice into the record if you'd like. >> Tuesday April 7th room 3 Milford Town Hall 52 Main Street the Milford Planning Board will at the time designated conduct public hearings regarding the following. 7:01 p.m. Public hearing
002application of the planning board to amend section 2.5 intensity of use schedule of the Milford zoning bylaws by adjusting select lot widths to match the minimum lot frontage. The full article language above items is available for public inspection at the office of planning and engineering. Town hall 52 Main Street, Milford, Mass 01757. The following times, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday from 8:00 to 4:30. Wednesday from 8 to 6:00, Friday from 8 to 11:30. Interested parties may express their views at the hearing tonight. So, we're either going to take a motion to open or the chairman is going to declare the hearing open. >> I think we should declare it open. >> Okay. >> So, what we have, sir, as you guys already know cuz since we're sponsoring this article, this is to amend the lot widths to
003to match the frontages in the RB district, which is changing to 90. R C is changing to 120, RD to 120, and the IB to 230. Those are the only changes proposed for this article. >> Okay. What's the pleasure of the board? >> Um, Mr. Chair, the town planner described explained this to us at, I believe, our last meeting, and it just makes infinite sense. I'm It's kind of weird that it hadn't already been pointed out and I kind of look at myself for that since I served in that seat for a few years. I I don't I don't recall if it was like if it was out of whack when I served, but >> Well, no, it was there was a reasoning for it back then. >> Yeah. And there was. >> Yes. and
004and and that probably should, you know, in in the report to to uh uh town meeting, uh the reasoning for that should probably be put in there that we've adjusted the >> we we've now got the what is rule of 21 or whatever >> rule >> 22 >> rule 22 that that we have added into our bylaw and the reasoning for this is is >> um you could say moot uh is not as critical as it was back back during that time when when it was originally put into the uh into the bylaw. >> I feel like I need more explanation. What's the rule of 22? The the whole reasoning for why we did this back in the day was was to try to >> When you say did this, you mean had the >>
005the way it was was to was to make sure that lots were that there weren't pork chop lots. It was it was the original mechanism to try to minimize the chance of pork chop lots. It didn't totally succeed, but it sort of got there when we went to the when we went to the rule of 22, which you know tries to square off all the sides and goes through a calculation. That whole intent was was the newer version of how you got rid of pork chop lots. So the the purposing was was for that. >> Again, what's the rule of thumb? >> So you take the uh perimeter and you divide it by the area squared or something like that. It has to equal >> or um it has to equal a no more than
00622 or a minimum of no more than 22. But then there's some other pieces to it. So if you have a a lot that's much larger, what it does is make it makes it so that you can't have too much perimeter. >> Yeah. >> If you have a lot you want 30 foot to go in and then also >> you're really manipulating the the the perimeter of the lot to >> to come up with some of the area. Exactly. >> That that's where it all >> too much again. The best word I can come up with is manipulation of the perimeter. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> It it works relatively well. Um it if if a lot is larger than the minimum lot size, it allows for you to kind of get around that a
007little bit. >> Um which I think makes sense >> because you've got excess excess land area. Um, so and this is this is something that I've seen in other towns, not maybe exactly this way, but similar. >> So, >> yeah, that >> with with that, which I think does a definitely a better job than this does >> of of because it takes into account the whole lot, >> right? So it does a that that rule of 22 does a better job of um >> avoiding the manipulation. >> Avoiding Yes. >> If manipulation is a reasonable word for what for what you're speaking of and but Matt you recommend this right? >> Yes. >> Thank you both of you for that expl those explanations and Joe. >> No not at all. Okay. >> Was the pleasure
008to vote on this? Do you declare the public hearing closed after asking the public for comment? >> Having nobody here from the public should be closed. >> Okay. >> Take a motion. >> Motion to send a favorable recommendation to town meeting. >> Second. >> Okay. We have a >> with the notes that you provided earlier >> on uh >> Yeah. In in the in the report, I mean as as part of our our report to town meeting, just make sure that those are in there. Okay. >> However you feel you want to write those up. But >> so I'm going to recommend only because election is today that Martha withholds her vote just because just in case you're not elected but you are. Just it's something town council told me to watch out for just
009cuz we're holding this on election. >> Wow. >> So that's I'm sorry. That's That's crazy cuz she's still um >> That's just just what he told me. >> until tomorrowified until it's certified. >> If anybody knows that, it's you, Chris. >> Wow. That's >> what certification we're talking to. The first the second. >> Having having said that, then we need to strike her vote for >> I seconded strike her second. So, it'll be Chris on the second. >> You still participate in discussion. >> I'm sorry. Town council brought that to your attention. I was asking >> I'm going to have a conversation with her. >> I didn't even I didn't even know we were holding this on election day. >> So I had to ask that question. I asked it last week, >> right? >>
010But there's no rule in our general bylaws against it. He just that's the only thing he cautioned me on. >> Oh my goodness. >> So So >> just need a roll call. >> Having a motion. Um do we have a second? >> Yes, I'll second that one. >> Okay. All right. Having a motion and a second. Any discussion? Okay. Uh, let's take a vote on that. >> I, >> babe, >> I >> Okay. I as well. >> I guess I'm abstaining. >> You're obained. >> Correct. >> With objections. >> Why am I even here? >> Oh, God. Your opinion is valued by the brother. >> Fellow members of the board. >> Our next agenda item, we have the um uh the amendment to section 2.4.8. >> Yes, sir. So, Tuesday, April 7th, room 3, Milford
011Town Hall, 52 Main Street, Milford Planning Board, will at time designated conduct public hearings regarding the following. 7:02 p.m. public hearing, application of the pling board to amend section 2.4.8 eight of the Milford zoning bylaws by removing it entirely and renumbering the bylaw in the absence of this section. Full article and language of the above items is available for public inspection at the office of planning and engineering town hall 52 Main Street Milford Mass 1757. The following times Monday, Tuesday, Thursday 8 to 4:30. Wednesday from 8 to 6:00 and Friday from 8 to 11:30. Interested parties may express their views here this evening. >> Okay. Well then, uh let's open up uh this meeting also to the public. last amendment. >> So, Mr. Chairman, uh, as we discussed previously before sponsoring this article, sending the
012selectman, um, this is the the the wetland bylaw that was in the zoning bylaws, and since the conservation commission has recently updated its own wetland bylaws, there's no need to have this in our zoning bylaws. So, this is a matter of really housekeeping just to remove this from the bylaw. And that would move our shape factor up to 2.4.8 instead of 2.4.9. 4.9. >> Okay. Right. >> So, I thought that when Larry used to do this, he would, and not that that's makes it right or wrong, but he would leave the section as reserved rather than renumbering. Um, >> I know we did it for the ADUs because they had stuff that they were waiting on for the AG to get back to them on. So, those sections were left intentionally blank. We don't have
013anything else in our bylaws that's intentionally left blank. So, I thought we should just clean this up. >> Okay. I I don't know if what the reason was. I just knew that that was something that he had. >> Yeah. >> So, >> I know he did it for the ADUs cuz he left four of them blank. >> Yeah. There's no there's no other references >> no >> to it. >> I don't >> in the bylaw. >> Nope. I don't see any other sections intentionally left blank. >> Section >> I mean the following. So the shape like the shape factor, you're just going to have to go through and make sure that you if the shape factor one is changing. >> Mhm. >> Just going to have to check for the references. >> Yeah. >> To
014make sure that >> that's the only one that has to change because it's the end of the section. >> Mhm. So >> Right. But if that's but if that's referenced in another section >> Mhm. by the section number. >> You have to change that part of the zoning bylaw as well. >> I see. If it's referenced, that's probably why Larry didn't change it because just of the just in case it's it's missed for a reference print point of view. >> Do that. I mean, now if you go back to when this was originally done, when some of them were originally done and stuff, it was >> you could easily miss it. Now, you can do an an easy search of the word document and see if there's any any references to section 2.8 or whatever
015it is and >> and then we can see if it needs to be changed or not but >> otherwise I would say to make it there's no real reason to reserve them and I hate to leave it open if we don't have to. >> Agreed. >> Okay. Any more comments? >> None. >> Okay. Um any comments from the public? Okay. We're going to close this meeting. >> Okay. >> Motion. Yeah. Motion to close the public hearing. Is a favorable recommendation of town meeting. >> Okay. >> And I'll second that. >> Okay. Any discussion? >> Okay. Have a vote on that. >> I >> Okay. I as well. >> I don't think you need to pass. I I don't think I do. I don't I'm going to have to talk with Brian. >> He said to
016have or abstain. >> Yeah. >> For some reason, we'd have to >> I mean for what he's saying. >> So this excuse me for Mr. Chair. Sure. >> Um Matt, this is only with regard to the public hearings. >> Yes. >> Okay. I can vote on other items and talk about them and engage in debate. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. Well, you could always engage in debate. You could you could debate even more. >> I know. I'm just being a pain in the neck. >> Okay. So, item number five. Um, looks like there was a request to continue that to uh the next meeting. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. We don't need to vote on that, do we? Motion. Okay. Pleasure to vote on that. Move that. >> Move to continue the site plan application
017at 225 West Street to April 21st, 2, 2026. I >> second. >> I'll second. Oh, >> I thought we were already at a discussion. >> Take a vote. >> I >> Babe, >> he's abstaining. >> Yeah, he wasn't at the first one. >> Okay. I as well. >> Okay. >> There you go. >> I don't think he can actually, but >> Okay. Then we have uh we have a site plan waiver application for 161 East Main Street, Olympus Gym. Yes, sir. So, usually we get a waiver application and we consider it an amendment to the plan. However, in my opinion, this one fit the true definition of the waiver and I'll explain. Uh this proposal last year was changed to a oh, sorry, this this property at 161 East Maine. Last year we had an
018application for a church to go into this site. Okay. The church never ended up going in. So this proposal is for a fitness center. The building commissioner said the same way we're going to calculate this for parking is the same way we did it for the church. So it's just given that that plan was one year old. Submitted that with this waiver application from the applicant. So this one has a shared parking agreement with the park with the property next door, 7 Midway Road. There's a ton of parking over there. Uh the former Dollar General retail used required 63 spaces compared to the previous church sanctuary that required 62. The fitness center calculations for place of assembly would would probably require more than 62 spaces given wherever the largest area assembly is. Uh adequate parking
019is provided via the shared parking agreement with planes realy on the adjacent plaza parcel. So I recommend this waiver is approved because most of the heavy lifting was done by the previous applicant who abandoned the proposal. >> I don't I I guess I I don't remember there being a huge amount of I mean I know physically there's a huge amount of parking in the next parcel. >> I don't remember there being a huge amount over what they're required to have though. >> Right. So, I mean, even though we approved the church for 62 spaces, do we anticipate the gym's going to need 62 spaces? >> Um, the calc I I would agree that the place of assembly makes sense for the gym. >> Mhm. However, um as we did with the other, uh church, you
020you also has to do with the largest assembly space. And I'm pretty certain that that was applicable to this one that that they had to propose uh an interior wall in order to meet that 60 something spaces. I mean, I know where you're I know where you're coming from in terms of do I think there's a problem or there would be a problem down there? No. >> Do I think we need to have in the files exactly what was approved or not approved? So, the request for waiver I have no problem with. But that would be that would be saying this is what it was based on. Here's the calculation and here's where we are today. cuz when when we're gone and you're gone and someone else changes it, I want to know what that
021last calculation was. >> Sure. >> Um I mean that that's you know I think we're the gatekeeper going forward and stuff and I want to make sure that that a planning board signed a thing that says this is what's allowed out there now. So I don't see it being an issue and and to be to be perfectly honest with this type of use if it were an issue within the calculation this is one where the the the usage of of uh various usages >> as they have some amount of use in the in the the bigger plaza as well. >> You know they could easily make the calculation and not have to do anything but I just want to know what that number is and how we got there. >> Right. So the calculation for
022the gym as is would require 120 parking spaces given this place of the largest place of assembly and that's the entire space. That's 120 spaces for a gym is pretty outrageous in my opinion. But so the 63 that we previously approved was based on 100 square ft of floor space and the largest assembly area. I think they had 6,200 square ft of space that they were proposing to use for their largest assembly area. That's how they came up to the 62 spaces. And the gym is probably going to use a lot more than just the large congregate area of the church. So that calculation ends up being twice that. >> It's okay if I speak. >> It's not my tour yet. >> Sorry. I never done this before, so please forgive me. >> Um, just
023identify yourself. My name is Romeo Drizz. I'm the person with the gym. Um I already happen to own a gym in Freeman. Um we have two over 2,000 members in there. And our assembly when people come to the gym, they come in different times. They never come together at the same time with 2,000 members. We have never have over 40 cars parked outside. >> Wow. >> Because it's it's not a time that we're busy. It's busy throughout the day. And as far as the space even so we have a very large space there almost 65% of that space gets occupied by machines and equipment. So in reality I can never have that many people in there just I don't have the space for them. Uh I'm also general contractor so I understand what codes are
024and and we I will obey them and follow uh uh uh what the requirements are. So I just want to bring that out. My goal this is I'm building this for my kids. Uh myself and my two sons are the ones that gonna take care of the the gym and our we live in Axbridge and our goal is to bring a positive addition to the to the community, not not to create problems. >> I I I don't think this is an issue. I'm just I'm just I just want to make sure that we lack lack of a better word memorialize how we got there so that if things change downstream we know what was done as part of the calculation or not and again if we can get there somehow Matt to to to work
025it out I'm not asking anybody to put in more parking or not. I'm just asking let let's let's know how we approved it so when the next person comes in or trans recycling moves out we we know what we have to set aside and why and and we can redo the calculation for for other people and and I think that's important. I don't I don't think it necessarily has to be done as a place of assembly when you when you don't have something that's specifically listed, >> right? >> You know, there's >> Yeah, I would >> that's part of the issue we have. >> Yeah, that's the only thing we have. >> Yes, that's it. >> Yeah, but there's something in there that says that the the building commissioner or the planning board I don't
026remember. It says something about somebody being able to approve otherwise if it's not listed or something. Yeah, because we've done it. What What did we do with spaces? >> Yeah, it's right here on the planet. >> When we did uh >> Planet Fitness. >> Yeah, cuz that's what I was saying. >> And I don't remember. I mean, Planet Fitness is pretty big. I mean, if that were the case, >> I don't think they have enough down there. >> I wouldn't expect so. >> Not that not now with the car wash gone. >> With the car wash taken off. >> And he's right. There's, you know, there's I go there, so there's like 30, you know, 40 cards. >> I just think you I just think you need to have, like you said, to just have
027them work on the numbers so that they can be on the plan. >> I I would take a look at at at both the gym and and >> I don't know or the gym came back. >> So on the plan right here. >> Mhm. >> Autozone 55 spaces. contractor yard uh three and a half spaces per thousand square foot of office area. Trans redemption with their four employees 7 and a half spaces. Uh the concrete mortar packaging 9 and a half spaces and the religious obviously so 62. So, I guess yeah, you're looking for at least this plan to change from or or is it hold the 62 or does it need to change? >> If you hold the If you hold the 62, that's fine, but you just below it. You need to explain
028how do you how did you get to 62? >> Whether it was us approving that 62 was the right number or or whatever whatever makes that number work. I you know, I think there's plenty of parking down there. I just want to know how we >> And it's saying there's a total of 134 spaces. So obviously if it go by the square footage and they need 120 now now we're compromising >> the need but it doesn't sound like I don't want to back calculate >> correct right in and just memorialize it in the plans. I get that right but I guess yeah >> can't we memorialize it in a waiver decision >> instead of asking this applicant to change the plans? >> Yes. Oh well um >> no you're going to need Well, we can
029we've approved I think you might have a point. >> We've we've approved subject two where someone's given us a new plan >> and and approved the waiver of sight plan for that because it was a m what what we determined to be a minor change. I'm pretty sure we've we've done that along the way where we've had as a matter of fact I think this was the we've done that numerous times with change of use >> where the parking stayed the same but it was a change of use. They submitted a new plan, showed the new parking calculation, and we approved the waiver waiver of site plan as as part of that. >> So, I think that kind of contradicts the the the request for the waiver. That sounds like an amended site plan. You're
030asking someone to submit an amended site plan, and this is a waiver application with the applicant submitting a previously approved plan as part of his waiver application. >> I would think that it's reasonable to put that calculation in a memo. Yeah, I agree. >> And then not change the plan. But that's my >> Yeah, but I I I I think we've you know, we've done it that way. I mean, I understand what you're saying, Matt, but I believe that's the way we've done it in the past to be totally honest. >> That way, >> I'm sorry. Which way is the way we've done it? >> If there's been a change of use, >> parking stays the same, same number of parking spaces, but the calculation is is different. Yep. >> We we've granted the waiver
031of sight plan, but they've submitted a new they effectively have submitted a new plan with that calculation. I I I what the uses added up parking requirements for each use added up versus the number of spaces in the lot. >> Yes. The only thing with that is, um, this was my objection to it back when we were doing it then, was technically you need to pay an engineer to change the parking calculation and restamp the plan. >> Mhm. >> And they're not going to do that for free. >> Right. >> It's about $10,000 and takes about four months now. >> Yeah. >> It should not be that much. Yeah, it should it should >> it shouldn't take that much. It could take that much time. >> I spoke with two two engineers. Like I said,
032I'm a general contractor, >> so I haven't spoken. >> I would fully expect it to cost at least $2,000. >> Right. I was thinking 2 to 3500. >> Yeah. You know, if >> if it were my if it were my stamp, that's probably what I would say. Right. But alas, it's not. >> And this is Dale McKinnon stamp on G&H. >> The gym itself, are you planning on having any breakout space for like classes or anything like that? >> So, we're going to have a very large locker room. >> Yeah. >> Um, and if I if I get, which the engineers say it's okay, we're going to be able to create uh rooms on the side where I'm going to have office um uh a podcast room. Um, I want to start podcast with my
033kids. See that? >> And on the other side, we're going to have a fitness room that's very large, sauna, and plunge room. So, with the entire floor, we're going to end up having about 6,500 to 7,000 uh of clear floor to put equipment. >> But these machines, they they occupy they occupy a lot of space. >> So, that's how I I don't believe that. So any any other breakout rooms where you'd have a class run by an instructor with with with multiple individuals anywhere from five to 50 people. >> So the class will be able to support 12 to 15 people. >> 12 to 15. >> Yes. The calculation has a there's a calculation for so that's the most we can do. >> You said 6,000 square ft >> of the floor when where we're
034going to put that's going to get you almost exactly back to what you're supposed to be at. >> Yeah. So we were at 12,000 with 120 6,000 cut it in half to 60. Is that >> Yeah. So submit a floor plan that shows that the largest room is meets the 6200. >> I might be off, but I have the plans with me though. >> And if you have to move a wall a few inches, >> uh, it's very large, but I I can't tell exactly what it is. >> Oh, okay. Then give me just one second, please. At the at the end of the day, I'm not going to change what up my opinion it because as we get continue to go through this, it doesn't come down to us saying, "Yeah, I think it's
035okay or not." I I it needs to be memorialized at the end of the day. No person that doesn't. No, I'm I'm saying in in terms of going through it, I I mean, if we have to get >> if we have to get a a a stamp or whatever, we need we need somehow to memorialize what the decision was >> and how it was based because someone else is going to come in and change the square footage and say, "I'm leaving it as a gym, but they're going to open the whole thing up and and then we're going to be sitting here saying, "Oh, what the hell do we do now? And what do we do?" And I don't want that sitting out there. >> Mhm. >> Great. I think it's reasonable to request. When
036we got it for the religious, we had to have a site plan that showed what the largest area was. I think it's completely reasonable to ask the same >> of this applicant and have that in the file. But if the number comes out to be the same for the site plan, there's really >> I got 5,500 for the main floor and that's before the equipment sits there. So that's even less than the place of assembly. >> So I think that would be my recommend I I think I think that >> can you send that to me? >> Yes, of course. I'll send >> if he has if he has the plan and I don't and this is just my opinion and my opinion doesn't mean much in this particular >> but I think as long
037as the calculation is written down and approved by the board it doesn't necessarily have to be on the plan. I understand that I prefer it on the plan. Well, the this question for the board and they need to make a decision on um again this particular one, this particular use, where it is. >> Yeah. I don't really I I'm not worried about it. What I'm worried about is the next guy that comes in setting a precedent and says, "Oh, I'm doing this >> and you you agreed to this and you didn't have to get a new plan and I didn't have, you know, so I want to do this and and it it becomes that slippery slope that do we think we can stop it at this." >> Yeah. >> And if we don't, then
038we can't we can't let it go. We need a stamp plan. I mean, that that's just to me that's the bottom line. I'm not trying to I'm not not trying to screw anybody or anything. I'm and and like I said, it's it's not that I'm worried about this one, but I am worried about the next one cuz I never know what it is. And it's amazing how they all know when you do something like this that they can throw that out in front of you and and and I don't know where it goes from here. And that's that's what bothers me. >> I just thought this was kind of a unique case where we had a church approved previously and then the same calculation for the fitness center goes handinhand with the request that happened
039one year ago. Well, we need if if that's the way we're going, we need to document it that way and make sure that it's >> it it's perfectly clear as to why we did this or not because >> I I don't want to go down the path because I don't know what the next, you know, somebody's going to come in and say, "Well, this is a minor change, >> right?" >> But you're not making any changes to the exterior of the building whatsoever, >> right? No, I know that >> that to me that says you shouldn't have to if there's already a site plan. >> Why would you even if there wasn't already a site plan? I'm not sure why you would need a site plan if you're not required to make any changes outside
040>> because because depending on the use making no changes to the outside of the building could have a significant effect on what you have to do or not do. I mean part of the calculation is based on what's in there or not. >> Right. We're saying that we're saying that that >> the church use and the gym use come out to the same number. Someone's going to say, "Well, these are almost the same >> when they come through the next time." And and we're going to have to >> I'm I'm still think it needs to be documented and I think that needs to be part of whatever you're approving is there's a letter from somebody that says this is the calculation, >> right? um that the board can look at the calculation just like we're
041looking at the plan and say, "Yep, that calculation is in agreement with our regulations and there's no and we agree there's no requirement to make a change. So, we are granting a waiver of site." >> Is it the town that's certifying that number? Then there's >> no there's no PE that that stamped it. number coming from the slippery slope from the concept plan or the the architectural rendering that we're about to get. We >> we're always agreeing with a calculation. We're not doing a calculation. It sounds to me like this time we're going to be doing a calculation. >> I that's not what I said. I said there needs to be a letter from somebody that's doing the calculation and you're approving it. It's not a PE. Does it have to be a PE >>
042that or does it have to be an architect? That's a again that's a decision >> figure out the required parking for a particular use. No, >> it's it's really almost more it's more um appropriate for an architect to be doing and >> and then if that's what you he So if he's if he's making changes to the inside of the building, he's very likely going to have an architect of some sort. So maybe the architect is willing to write the letter that says this is the parking calculation. >> No, they said that's a civil engineer. They won't touch it. >> They won't touch it. All right. Well, then I guess you need a new site plan. >> Well, I if you had that letter from a from somebody that's I mean, it at the end
043of the day to me, >> it's it comes down to does somebody have insurance to back this up? I mean, that's that's what it comes down to in today's world. And and so whether it be an architect, whether it be a a registered engineer or whatever, there there's somebody that says they they professionally have enough level to be able to do that. >> So, okay. So, he submits me the architectural rendering and it shows 5,500 ft. Presuming that happens, I'm going to write you guys a memo that calculates the parking. I'm going to do that. That's going to come from me. >> Yeah. So if you guys want >> this case, but that we've never done that before. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Never done that. >> That's always come on this sheet where there's a
044where there's a stamp of somebody saying I'm certifying that that's what's on there. Not you, not anybody else. >> Okay. >> That's, you know, every every every drawing that you have in there, that's that's the way all of them are and that's what we've always done, >> right? Okay. So, there's somebody not not not that I think that anybody who knows if anybody would ever go back and sue anybody over it or not, but there always is a a a professional stamp on all of them. >> Okay. >> Department's the department's responsibilities have always been to review it to see if it made reasonable sense, let me say. >> Yeah. >> Per se. But >> but it's department the department's responsibility also to determine or or can be can be coming from both the applicant
045and and the department head the town planner or or town engineer whichever um then to calculate the number of required spaces and compare them to the number of spaces available. I mean I used to do that. >> Well you used to check somebody's >> there were times when yes but it required me doing it independently right. Yes. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I've been known to go out the parking lot, what's now Kohl's. I once counted those spaces one by one to make sure that the numbers matched. >> Well, we've had if we really want to get it, we've had we've had issues where people have given us plans that showed number of parking spaces supposedly surveyed and it was wrong. >> Yeah. I did I did it in the field to make sure it
046was right. >> It took a while. That may Yeah. And and that may be, you know, that that certainly may be, but we've always had the the backup of there has been an engineer engineer stamp outside of this department that has said this is what's out there. >> Yeah. I I don't have any problem with with staff, you know, field check well, yeah, fielding that information and without an engineered or architectural stamp. So what we had previously, we had this calculation that showed 62 spaces for 6200 square f feet. We had a letter from Larry that we got last year that memorialized that in a letter. Now, if he's given me a plan that's less than 6,200 ft, >> I don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that that's less. And I
047get what you're saying, like you want that to come from an engineer, but that that's something we can figure out on our own. >> Yeah. I I'm I'm I'm It's just something that you guys the board the board members need to decide if they want to see the plan updated or if having something at least this is the way I see it at this point. Um the board members need to decide if they want the plan the site plan revised and updated to reflect the numbers for the architectural of the gym or If you can grant the site plan waiver and approve it's I guess subject to a letter and that architectural >> that letter could be from the property owner >> and I guess yeah that letter and should state that the gathering area
048should not exceed need probably 6,000 square ft because that's where anything above 6,000 square ft starts to exceed the uh the uh parking usage for that. >> The plan needs to show that though the architectural plan of the interior 100% needs to be needs to be part of the package and >> show that it needs to dimension out that area to show that what if we had at least to have some tiein. And I would think an architect, if you have architectural plans, would be able to submit to us a letter stating that that no assembly area within this within this uh rental space or or within within the within the confines of of the gym unit is larger than X, right? >> And then if that if we have that letter, we can attach
049that. Then I would at least have something, you know, that limits us going forward where where Matt can then say based on no no larger X would give you less than 63 parking spaces, there's no change, right? I I think that gets gets me at least some level of of comfort that we have some backup. >> I can get that letter. >> Yeah. And my question would be too then if you do get that letter, how does that letter get memorialized with the plans itself? >> It's just going to get filed with it at that point. So if someone again in in however many years pulls this file, that letter would be somehow attached to it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> That's a Yeah, I'm on board with that solution. >> Not not a tremendous
050burden, >> but I appreciate it. This is doable and I can I can I can work. >> I appreciate you guys very much. >> Good idea. Good work, sir. So, having not received that architectural rendering in advance of this meeting, are we suggesting a continuence for two weeks so we can >> No, I'm I'm fine with I would I would say that >> that we approve the request for uh >> w of site plan subject to the submitt of a letter from an architect showing the maximum >> uh maximum area >> of assembly largest area of assembly >> not to exceed 6160 ft. That's what the church had. >> But that they Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would that would make sense showing it not to be that way the number would be less. >> Is
051that a motion? >> Yes, that's a motion. >> Okay. Having a a motion and second it. Uh any discussion? >> Good. >> Okay. >> I as well. Okay. >> So much for your help. Thank you guys. God bless you. I'll be in touch tomorrow. >> Thanks. >> Sounds good. All right. >> Okay. Um the next item of business, we've got the um we've got zoning bylaw amendments. Any ongoing discussion? >> Others? >> I've got a new one. I think we need a gym use listed in our bylaw. >> Oh my. Yeah, >> we don't have one. That is shocking. >> There's a lot there. It's really hard to um it's really hard to try to capture all of the types of uses and they can vary pretty easily. I >> I don't think I don't
052think we've had very many issues with some you know stuff outside of um I mean retail and um and restaurant are probably the two most often used. And then beyond that, I mean, >> well, I think I I think if we're looking at that that way and there probably needs to be something like that for a gym. >> Yeah. >> Just only because it it it and again, it may it may encompass more areas than just a gym, per se. If if the usage has to be, you know, the same thing that we did for a church >> or something else, then we probably should try to get something in there that would that would give us another opportunity to say, "No, why don't why don't we use this for this particular usage type thing?"
053>> Yeah. >> Like a fitness center use with a parking description. >> Yeah. >> Its own separate definition or >> I'd like to see what Yeah. It would be interesting to do, you know, spend some time and see what other towns do with that. Gym gyms can be so varied, you know, some can be all rooms that are that have equipment where there's not that much space, floor space for people, you know what I mean? As opposed to gyms that prioritize classes, >> correct? >> You know, that that's I mean, they're light years different in terms of the parking demand. >> I'll do some research. >> Oh, that'd be good. I've got one update on zoning. Well, I mean, we could I if if we had one where you had usage with equipment and had
054a certain amount of people, you could you could have another one, you know, for you general assembly or something that that's that's somewhat different. >> But yeah, it'll be interesting to see what other people do with it. I I >> I can't think of another use where the parking demand could vary that much depending on how the interior space is divided up. Like other uses are seem and the ones I can think of anyway are all more straightforward. >> Chris, do you have anything? >> Yes. So food trucks u couple weeks back uh Joe joined us on the food truck discussion. Um, so basically based on timing and and through the conversation, we it won't make it on to the uh warrant artic warrant for the spring. The hope is to uh start looking at
055the fall town warrant and realistically probably less from this board um and more from probably the select board and the board of health um really after long discussions and and working through it becomes more of a permitting and less about us from a bylaw standpoint. Right now, the way that the bylaw's written written is that we restrict them. So, and we restrict them from a permanent standpoint, uh, we're we're looking to hopefully try to allow them, but that that to allow them is more from a permitting process and we're not a permitting board. So, so therefore that's why the discussion is going to have to go towards uh some discussions with the select board and and and bringing in the building commissioner and again the board of health. So again, you know, us being a
056board that doesn't submit or take applications for permits and and and approve permits, it's really not on this board to go down that road. >> So may may I Mr. to. So, put another way, it's not advised that we create it create food trucks as a permitted use in the zoning bylaw if the other important boards are not prepared with the for the licensing process. Yes, they have to be done hand in hand, >> but the majority of more or less we'll just be taking it out of this we'll just be taking it out of the zoning >> really >> I think >> but we wouldn't do that until >> we won't touch it at all but >> until what the attempt will be I think is for us it's going to stay in the
057zoning as it's currently worded is not allowed except as permitted under general town bylaws. And then in the general town bylaw, it will say how they're going to be allowed. >> Trust me, it's going to be a longer discussion. Um it it it it's kind of circled around. I've got a lot of notes and I've got to start reaching out to the other boards to try to uh kind of paint the whole picture. >> I would just be curious on how that you could legally say something's not allowed unless it's is not allowed under zoning. Unless it's allowed by something else. I don't >> No, it is. it. >> Well, >> I just that I It sounds It sounds to me like legally that wouldn't fly, >> but I'm not a lawyer. >> There in
058lies the muddiness of it all. And it is trying to prevent certain aspects of it, but still allow usage, very specific usage, right? So, that's that's where we're trying to find out how to best word it. So it does allow for food trucks to operate but under strict rules >> that they became a yeah it's probably not worth the conversation till we get further in. I mean part of it becomes would you do you eliminate a food truck that is part of a say a restaurant wanted to bring in a food truck for a different type of food and they actually did their site plan to allow for the food truck to be parked there. Do you want to say no, you can't do that because it's a food truck or would you allow it
059if it came as part of a site plan where there was parking based on something for that food truck and it was a use. So it that's why it sort of stayed that we were talking about maybe it stays in but we have to make sure the wording and stuff as opposed to just say so there's a bunch of interactions and then the first idea was that food trucks wouldn't be allowed except if we were for a u >> special event. Uh there was there was ones, you know, we talked about it being you wouldn't allow them unless they had a had an existing a special event or common victual license already in hand and and there was all sorts of stuff. So as to how it works out, it's it's going to >> but
060it shouldn't be here. It's not a permanent structure. I mean, we got to get and that's I it's it's imp it seems impossible to have the zoning enforcement officer enforcing a food truck that is literally could be moving, >> you know, like that's just >> Well, that's why I said to John, I said, ridiculous. I said you as a >> as a zoning enforcement officer, you should want to get this out anyways because it shouldn't be yours unless the unless the selectman tell you they want you to do it for whatever other reason as part of their thing. It shouldn't be a zoning issue. >> And I mean, right, the only part of it that belongs in zoning is well, you can't have a permanent >> correct >> connection, permanent utility connections and blah blah
061blah like that. But other than that, >> I agree. Does this have sufficient momentum with the other boards? I just I'd hate for this to be a dropped ball. >> Um I have not presented it to the other boards. >> Okay. >> But I mean >> this like working group if we could call it that there's been a lot of working there's been a lot of different people from different >> different departments >> collaborating on this. >> Yeah. I just I don't want it to kind of fade out of >> Yeah. It's going to it's going to come down to the board select to be told. >> Yeah, it's faded out over the last couple weeks from my standpoint just because >> other other things going on. Yeah. Um for the paid jobs. Um but
062uh important. >> Yeah, exactly. It's kind of important. So, but it has >> it just needs to be presented basically to the select board um at this point and we'll see where the momentum goes from there and what they have for an appetite for the >> health board health already issues permits for them. >> Yeah. >> Which is bizarre in its own right. It's kind of bizarre. It's really the select board like you said. >> So, but they they issue them only when >> the zoning enforcement officer True >> uh CL agrees that it meets the exemption of the definition. >> Yeah. Which is I mean to me that's another thing why it has to be dealt with somehow or some way when we have various people in the town reading the thing and coming
063up with a difference of opinion as to what it means or doesn't mean. So that's at a minimum. I guess if it stays the way it is and nobody jumps on board, we as a board, not that I wanted to do this, but we as a board should should do something so that the the wording as to what people actually want is more clear because there is a difference of opinion as to what that means or doesn't mean. And that shouldn't be the case. >> I just don't want to see it drop the ball dropped. >> I I think based on what you just heard here, there's there's a lot of Yeah. A lot of interest. >> There really is. Yeah. Okay. >> Truly there is. Yeah. So, >> y feel feel free to ask
064in the next few meetings where we're at. So, I'll give you updates. >> I will probably do that. >> I've got one additional bylaw amendment update. Um the planners forum that I'm a part of. Uh they started throwing around the ideas of phase construction bylaws. So, I'm going to start getting in some examples and then I'll put something into our language something for hopefully the fall. >> Great. >> Just want to give you an update on that. cuz I can't believe the the car washes, >> man. I thought I thought there were other projects that was slow. That thing just >> Yeah. Amazes me. >> Setting the precedent. >> It's a beautiful building. >> Yeah, it is. >> All right. >> I mean, I've had I've been to the facilities. There's one down in Falmouth.
065They're always They're always very nice looking, but gez, nothing that been going on for a while. And they did quite a bit of work over the rental too. So, >> yes. >> Okay. Any any others? >> No, sir. >> Okay. Going to the next um line item. Uh we've got uh do we have any uh town planner updates? >> Um right above that, the rules and regulations. Town council still hasn't reviewed it yet, so I don't have any updates for us. >> But as far as town planner updates, I do have one item. Um this is kind of a separate handout. Um Joe and I were talking about this um about a week ago. So someone from Milton Cat sent us a proposal because they wanted to add a I don't know what this sort
066of tank is a 3000galon UL 2085 fire guard as tank whatever that is. Um and they wanted to they wanted to show it on this little sketch here now. So I asked them, "Is this taking up any parking spaces or going on pvious surface, changing from pvious to impervious?" Their answer was no. So, and there's already some barriers up there for the previous tank, and this one would go in a space that seems to be already protected. So, I went back and forth with some town officials, and um the fire chief said that they would be adequate vehicle protection and appropriate signage will be needed. I was like, "All right." So then I started asking Joe and I'm like, "Is this something that we need to see at the planning board or not?" So that
067was my general question. So um what does the what does the board think? >> Babe had his hand raised. Mr. Chair, Babe has his hand raised. Uh babe babe, you want to >> pause? >> Yeah. Tina's related to performance in town. >> Oh, you know, you have your hand raised on the on one of the I don't know why you're up there twice, but >> Oh, >> I hit my touch screen. I touched the wrong. >> All right. If you don't have anything to say, then moving on. We'll move on. >> Okay. Yeah. So, originally I looked at this as it's not taking up parking spaces, not it's not changing pvious to impervious. Perhaps they don't need to come in. So, then I asked Joe about it. He's like, "What about the safety of this?
068Need to make sure that there's safety aspects and ballards or whatever it's necessary." And so, I guess what I'm wondering is what's already out there. There's five, what are they? Jersey barriers or K rails, whatever those are, that block off this spot already, but I think I need to see them in person just to understand that they're safe enough. But I guess the question is, does something like this need to come to us as >> I think you need dimensions. >> Yeah. >> I >> So going back to >> Yeah, going back to what and that that's where we got into the conversation. I was pretty much to the point of saying it should come back to us, right? >> Okay. >> You know, to me, someone could say this is an amended site plan.
069Here's what we're going to do. Here's the changes. Here's the stamp plan that shows the difference. Yeah, amended. You know, we're not going to have a we're not going to have a a a meeting a public meeting on it. It's amended site plan. Just we'll approve it because it doesn't make any other changes, but at least we have that in the file and >> yeah, I was going to say, yeah, the submission of the site plan has all the other >> way in the file and the fire chief's going to say, "Yeah, meets the safety requirements or or here's what you got to do to meet the safety requirements." >> Exactly. um you know what what's he storing in it. Not that it matters to us. It's going to matter to him. I mean, they're
070just giving you that's an underground storage tank. It doesn't say what the what the materials are that's being stored. But, you know, as long as he's comfortable with this, he'll send a letter to us that says, "Yep, it's okay with me." >> Right. >> Mhm. >> And that way we can say, "Yeah, it was approved." And in >> as opposed to Well, planning board never actually really approved that because we thought this was going to happen. >> Okay. You're you're making a change to the out you're making a change to the exterior, >> right? >> that's that's why I was asking because it wasn't taking up parking space and it wasn't taking up impervious surface. So, I figured I'd ask the board. >> So, I'll tell them that they need an amended plan. >> All
071right. I also got a new application today for a propane storage on uh 31 Beaver Street. And I was like, amended plant? Cuz they didn't show where it was. They didn't show me like if it's going to be taken up pvious. It's definitely within the buffer zone. So, they need to go from order. So, >> I told them that they needed >> it was so >> it may be fine from the conservation. I But that's what I said. I'm like, I need to see it on a plan before I can >> tell you if you need to file an amendment with >> Well, we Yeah. in in those Yeah. >> conservation. Well, I mean for us that becomes critical >> 100%. That needs to be >> So when they put it in the wrong spot,
072we can say, "Hey, that isn't what you said it was going to happen." Right. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. So that one was an easy one. >> Okay. Oh, that is the only update I have. >> Okay. Town engineer updates. >> I have nothing. >> Chairman updates. Babe, you have anything? >> No, I don't either. >> No, I'm all set. Thank you. >> Good to see you, sir. Great to be here, Maria. >> Um, any member updates, Chris? >> I hope to be here at your at our next meeting. >> I exactly I will not be at the next meeting. Just as a >> Okay. >> Not impossible. I guess >> it's not impossible, but >> All right. >> That would be a kick in the pants, wouldn't it? >> Our next meeting will be uh
073April 21st. Uh what's the pleasure of the board? >> Move to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I as well. Thank you. See you on the 21st. See you then. Joe.