Zoning Board Meeting: September 11, 2025

001[Music] Good evening everyone. Welcome to the September 11th zoning board hearing. Um the first we've got some business to attend with first and that is the uh approval of the minutes from August 14th. Motion >> motion by John to approve as submitted. Is there a second? >> Second by Mark. All those in favoring all these people that have fallen today. God bless you. Okay. That being 605. Uh let's uh let's look at the application for Jan Auto Center. If someone would come up and I'll read it into the uh into the hearing. This is on the application of Jan Auto Center, 160 Main Street for a special permit uh relief pursuant to section 2.3 of the zoning bylaw in relation to two abuing parcels of land located on the northsoutheasterly intersection of Main Street and

002Green Street shown as assessor sheet 52 lot and lot 268. Special permit relief is sought in order to permit the premises consisting of two adjoining lots to be utilized for the sale slash repair and maintenance of construction tools, small construction machinery and equipment and automobiles and auto parts. So with that I'm just going through the application. Um uh the special permit is this particular aspects of says the special permit sought in harmony with the general purpose and and the intent of the zoning bylaw. The applicant states that the proposed use is allowed and is similar to the previous use of the premises which is harmony with the general purpose and intent of the zoning bylaw. No alterations to exterior or exterior inter exterior existing to the building. As far as the uh proposed use would

003not create undue traffic congestion and impaired pedestrian safety, the applicant states the reopening of a business at this location will not create any undue traffic uh or generate traffic that exceeds volumes expected in the area. Concerning does the proposed use fall in harmony in the neighborhood and create a nuisance or hazard affecting the health, safety and welfare of the general public. The applicant states the proposed use is in harmony with existing neighborhood and similar in nature and kind of to the businesses previously at this location. Opening this new similar business will create uh not create a nuisance affecting um the public. With that in the application, by the way, let me provide you. Do you have any other bigger plans or just this one? Uh, I unfort Yeah, I'll shoot this down to the board

004members and then if you guys can take a look at it and then send it back my way, that'd be great. [Applause] And while I do that, uh, this has this has gone to the planning board meeting held on August 12th and recommends the following. The planning board has made a favor recommendation subject to the parking lots being fully paid. Full site plan review is needed board. The town plan letter indicates that the vehicle will become a special permit to establish a used motor vehicle sales and repair use on the property. Such vehicle related uses require a special permit to the ZBA zone in the ZV district. Specifically, the applicant proposes the sale and repair of used cars, a maintenance and repair of small construction machinery and equipment is also being proposed. The existing garage

005repair area will be retained. The off- streetet parking requirements cannot be determined until a specific outdoor display area and number of used cars for seals are proposed. The existing parking areas are to be paved and restriped as noted on the plan. There are no additions proposed to the structure. However, no inferior floor plans have been submitted to this point. Therefore, they made a favorable recommendation to be forwarded to the zoning board submit to the applicant providing a floor plan specifying the outdoor display area and a number of use cars for sale on the property. An amended site plan will be required from the planning board subsequent to any special uh permit approval. So, with that, just a reminder of anybody that's in the um hearing that any questions that you have for the board or

006for an applicant, please bring them through the chair and we will try and obtain any answers for you that we can. Uh historically, what we do is the board members will ask the applicant questions and then we will open it up to the public. So, with that, please turn it over to the attorney for on record. Please state your name for the record. Thank you. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. My name is Susette Ferrer. I am an attorney here in Milford, and I'm here tonight with the applicant, Josie Mar Nielsen, and also with John Federico, who is an engineer with um Gary Ernland. Hi, John. >> Um Mr. Nielson has filed an application for a special permit to maint, small machinery and equipment as well as automobiles and automobile parts at the

007property located at 336 uh Main Street in Milford which is owned by the Man family and as if um many of you may recall it used to be uh the prior location of Carquest Auto Parts. Um Mr. Nielson is a long-standing uh business owner in Milford. He currently operates his Jan Tools business on Main Street, but his business has outgrown space and this new larger site at 336 Main Street provides the space and layout necessary for him to continue serving customers and expand his services. Um, with his proposal, um, he intends to minimize um, impacts by ensuring that all maintenance and repair is done indoors. Uh he proposes his business hours would be Mondays through Saturdays uh from 8 to 6:00 and closed on Sundays. Um and we expect that the traffic would be similar

008to how it is now. Uh with this new proposal and this property being located in the CB district, um the applicant is proposing some site improvements which Mr. Federico will review with the board um with the plan. >> Okay. Your eyes. All right, thank you. Um, so just for the record, John Federico with Grier and Helnon. Um, so this existing site, um, it has a, uh, gravel parking area. Um, no striping or anything is, um, denoted in that back portion. Um, and then in the front, um, there is existing striping within the pavement area. Um, some of that striping and where the cars park actually go out into the rightway. Um, so we are proposing to restripe that front area um, for seven total spaces, including a handicap spot. um that would be compliant um

009keeping all parking and drive aisles um outside of the rightaways. And then uh we are proposing uh to denote 18 spaces um in the back area um to facilitate the remaining parking requirements as well as the u display car spaces. Um the plan um that large plan that everybody was uh taking a look at tonight. Um that one there we did make a revision to today based on some of Larry's comments. Um, we did relocate the dumpster from this location uh to the end of the drive aisle here and was able to add in two more stalls to meet the minimum of the four U display car spaces. Um, so as of right now um everything shown on this plan and we will provide a um stamp copy uh to the board uh tomorrow um

010is going to be compliant for any of the parking regulations. So, as far as the um and I'm asking a question for a reason. As far as the retail sales original location, is that staying >> um >> Conquest is >> uh whatever the name of that, please. >> Uh yeah. So, so this building here, we're not doing any sort of modifications to the building itself. Um the retail portion will be located um in this portion of the building and then anything for repairs will be located in this larger portion in the back. We do have those areas with square footages denoted on the plan there. Um, I do apologize. My 11 by7s are a little hard to see there for that. The other question I have is when you're talking about construction equipment, are you

011talking about excavators and backhoes for repairs? >> No. No. Talking about um generators um >> Compressors. >> Okay. Construction equipment. Yeah. Not vehicles. >> Correct. Correct. Not vehicles. >> That was my question. Thank you. >> You say compressors, what size? I mean, they're the big boys that got to be towed all over the place. >> No, just small. >> Small pack. >> Yeah. >> Just mostly regular portable compressors and things like that. Frame. [Applause] >> Um, is there any fencing on this plan? >> Uh, yes. Uh so we do have fencing that's going to be proposed around the property with a gate located here and a gate located here. Our intention for that fencing unless the board or anybody had any comments for it would be um just using wood for it. Um there is

012an existing um budding structure that does encroach onto the property as well as their shed and their original fencing um that is proposed to be uh relocated um onto their property. Um unfortunately with the structure there's no changes that can be done for that. Um and uh the property owner has been in talks with the abuters on getting corrected for that. >> So the shed that belongs to the other people is being moved. >> Correct. >> Apparently that was there by put on that by accident. >> Uh from my understanding yes. >> Is that shed movable? >> Uh from my understanding it is movable. >> Okay. So now that shed's going to have to conform to the rear and side step setbacks for that side. Uh it would be for this property here, but uh

013we're not involved with that portion. >> So who's responsible for moving the shed? >> Uh it would be the abuters from my understanding. >> Okay. Well, I'm sure we have to put a time frame on that. What is happening in the area that's not striped? Is that just still dirt? >> Uh that is a grass area currently and it's uh intended to remain grass um at the moment. >> That's on Green Street, right? >> Uh yes. So that's So you're not storing anything on that? You're not parking cars on that? >> No. >> Cuz anything we don't want to see any vehicles on that grass? >> At least as of right now, there's no intentions for it. Um if we did have to for any reasons explain parking down the road. Um we do have

014this gate access here and we would come back in front of any boards. >> As soon as soon as we see vehicles on that grass, you're going to get a call. >> Okay. >> Um wise, the water runoff with the new pavement. Is it just going to go towards Green Street or >> Everything is uh flowing as it is and um at least as of right now, we weren't necessarily intending to have that paved. Um discussions um with the town engineer um she seemed pretty satisfied with the condition of the gravel parking out there. Um it's existing um state has been having cars and various things parking on it. Um so in theory, we're not trying to change anything. Um, we will only be making a slight expansion of that footprint just so that we

015can have the dumpster area and that would typically be going on a concrete pad. Um, and we'll direct all that towards the parking. So, no runoff is going to be um going into Godfrey Brook or anything in the back here. Um, in terms of rest of the grades for this area, we're not intending to regrade or anything along those lines. >> Uh, I got a question concerning the automotive repair. How many bays are you doing for the automotive repair? will be eight total bays. >> Eight total bays. How many doors in the back? >> Um would we installing a second door or we just using the one door here? >> Second door. >> So we will have one door here and then we will have another door that will be off of Green Street. >>

016Overhead door. >> Yes. Correct. >> To come into the garage. Yes. >> And then you'll have interior bays. Correct. >> Yes. >> Is there an oil separator or anything like that being proposed? >> Um since it's automotive repair. I do not have one shown on this particular plan, but if one needs to be added, we will be more than happy to have that reflected on our plan going to planning board. >> You got two garage doors, front and back, Green Street, Main Street, right? >> The plan makes >> it's going to be noise being made when you do all this work. I mean obviously um what are you going to do for any type of noise suppression regarding you're going to have the sal you're going to have these garage doors wide open during the

017summer months or >> because it's going to be noisy and you know metal on metal makes noise. >> You get direct residential people across the street. So >> and you got Franks across the street. >> As far as noise go um are you proposing anything for noise mitigation? Could we propose that they just do continue indoors? >> But absolutely that's going to happen >> in that area. >> You can't have the garage doors open. >> Yes. >> And and noisy especially Saturday morning at 8:00 or >> Okay. We have air conditioning, heating system all around. We can keep the doors closed regardless. We can work with the doors closed. The the side door that on Green Street will be closed. We keep the doors closed all the time. That's going to force you to have

018some form of exhaust system for the garage. >> We do have with exhaust systems forced air conditioning and heating. >> Okay. >> So that way we keep the doors closed because it's it's a lot cheaper if I keep opening it. Keep my doors open. >> Also, it's also being in consideration of your neighbors. >> Yeah. No, without a doubt. Of course, cuz there's a residential but the residential part is behind the building from behind the building on on >> residential. You got this. >> Yeah. on the front. On the right side is Frank's appliances, the laundry mat and Frank's appliances on the front. So on on the right side, >> the side garage door on Green Street, those are all houses right there. >> Yes. >> Not exactly from the as from right from the

019building on is the first house. From the corner of the building on is the first house. And we usually maintain our doors closed all the times. >> Okay. >> Because cuz we do have the offices out front and when they are conditioning and heating, force air conditioning and heating. So we do try to keep the doors closed as much as we can. Yeah. No, of even on the summer because we have the air conditioning going the whole time. >> But I mean a real nice day if you guys are doing any maintenance. You just sweep it up and all that crap. Of course we do. >> No, we even though we doing maintenance on machines, we keep the doors closed just because we do have neighbors even on on the left side of us. >>

020We will get the call. >> Yeah, without a doubt. Well, regardless. So, so you understand that there's absolutely no auto parts tires outside the building? >> No, we don't keep anything outside the building. We try to keep it organized as we clean outside the building just because it's a it's a professional status keeping. >> Some of these places end up being so overcrowded. >> Yeah, I got you. Yeah, >> it's against your permit. So, you know, we'll put something in there with a 24-hour notice to cure. You could have that that that thing, you know, revocated. So I'm just I just want to bring that up front. >> Yeah, we spoke to Mark about this already and Mark is like a part of this and we do want to maintain as much as clean as

021possible and that's one of the things we want to make is organized. That's what we want the fencing in also. So we keep it organized and and for any type of doubt, nobody coming in and out. If there's a car with a, you know, with a broken bumper, somebody hits to it, you bumps into it, gets hurt. So that's why we do need the fencing in as fast as we can so we can close that part in so there's less hazardous for anybody. You know what I mean? >> You say Mark's part of this. He's the owner of the propert. The owner and he has >> been in the family for 80 years. Similar >> concern. No. And he's really particular about his business. >> He's very particular about his propert without a doubt. The

022lease includes similar stipulations to keep the property. >> And he we spoke like two days ago and he he was wanted to know what was gonna, you know, >> and there'll be absolutely no auto body work. No, >> no spray painting. >> No, no, no, no, no, none of that. >> Okay. Any other board members have any comments or questions? >> I'm good. >> Good. >> Anybody out in the public would like to speak on this particular application? Okay. um comment. Um I'm not comfortable doing an open-ended situation with car sales. So um my recommendation is to provide up to five vehicles at this point in time until you can actually prove that you've got enough parking there >> for all mechanisms including customer park and employee parking. And that's just the safest way to

023go right now. If you feel that you've got plenty of parking, you're expanding into that grass area for more parking, you can come back and get an amendment on that site plan. >> That that's agreed. >> So from the perspective, there'll be um in part of the order of the the conditions will be no construction vehicles, of course. There'll be no auto parts or pots in the yard or around the property. I guarantee you the planning board is going to require you to put an oil separator in. So, I'll just put that in there anyways. Um, no parking or anything uh located on the grass areas. Um, seven spaces you're indicating for the front and there will be no heavy equipment, construction equipment repaired on the property whatsoever. And and the reason I'm saying that

024is one thing we do not want to do. These heavy pieces of construction equipment, whether they're bobcats or whether they're small John Deers, you back them up and it's beep beep beep beep beep all day long. So that's what we don't want to have that affected around the neighborhood. Okay. >> So I would take a motion under those conditions, >> including including uh uh car sales not allowed beyond five. >> Correct. Dave, this is going back to the planning board, correct? >> It's subject this this is all subject going back to the planning board for site plan approval >> and finalization. >> So with that, that's the motion. >> I make a motion on this. Dave >> Oh, Dave Dave, >> I made that I made that clear already. >> I didn't hear it. >>

025Okay, >> I know you didn't hear it. You need a hearing aid. >> That is true. So, I have a motion. Is there a second? >> A second. >> Second by Dave. All those in favor? Opposed? That's unanimous. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate your >> cooperation. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> You got that, Melissa? >> You can pull that off so I don't have to write it all down. [Applause] >> I don't Have a good one. Thank you. >> There we go. >> That's what I want. [Music] >> When you get that decision draft, if you need to send it over to me so I can do it. Thank you. >> Okay. The next application is K&M Auto Sales. We have the victims step forward. So, Mr. Chairman, this is something of an

026evolving and late evolving situation. Um, this was originally sort of submitted as two different applications for the same site with different applicants. uh one to use a portion of the property for auto repair, one to use a portion of the property for um used auto sales. Uh, one of the applicant, the the one that had applied for the use of auto repairs, is no longer uh going to be moving forward with that application. But I'm informed this evening that the remaining applicant would like to amend his application to include both uses and the entire space that had originally been contemplated by the two separate applications. >> So, we would >> Let's do this. Let's do this first. >> Sure. Why don't we um Jerry, do you got to modify the amendment now? >> I I

027I we spoke earlier and I think I don't want to speak for Dave, but I think he's going to suggest that uh this be continued and he'll file an amended application that covers everything. The notice will be the same because it's the same uh >> withdraw the be an amended application and that would make it that clear. >> All right. So, let's do this. So, on the application of United Motors LLC uh 822 Plymouth Road, Halifax, Mass for a special permit for the automotive repair, that is going to be withdrawn. >> Ask to withdraw that without prejudice. >> Is there a motion to withdraw? Motion by John. Do I have a second? Second by Chris. All those in favor on the withdrawal. >> That's unanimous. Now on the application of K&M auto sales, do you

028want to continue that >> for a continuence to next month and we will file in the meantime an amended application that sort of combines the relief sought by both of those but for one applicant. >> Okay. So on the this is on the application of K&M Auto Sales 83 Medway Street Northfork the special relief pursuant to sections of the uh 2.3 zoning bylaws is requesting um a continuence to the next hearing. Is that enough time? That should be enough time. >> Okay, with that, do I have a motion to continue K&M Auto Sales? >> Motion by Mark. Do I have a second? >> Second by Dave. All those in favor? Opposed? That's unanimous. You want to sign this, Mr. Burton? [Music] >> October 9th. >> Thursday, right? Yep. >> Wow. >> Applicant. >> Thank you,

029Mr. Burtoni. Okay, that was quick work. >> Is that lucky to >> So now you can do now you can modify now you can modify one plan. >> Correct. >> Because you had a lot of um comments that were misdirected in there that we need to clarify. >> Correct. Okay. >> Great. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. They're going to move off. See, that'll open up a couple. >> Okay. This is on the application of East Main Street Properties, Inc., 32 Hastings Street, Mendon. Um, this is pursuant to chapter 40B in relation to a 14.6 6acre parcel at more or less on 21 Beaver Street which parcel is shown on assessor's map 44 lot 25A. The petition proposed develop and construct 103 unit rental apartment development on the site with not less than 26 of

030the units being restricted as affordable for low to moderate income persons. Pursuant to the applicant laws of the finance agency, a project eligibility letter was mass was issued through Mass Housing in relation to this site uh in October of 2024. In addition to that, um right behind that will be on the application to Jay Lee Realy Corporation 32 Hast Street Mend for a comprehensive permit for chapter 40B in relation to a 7.8 80acre parcel more or less of land located at 310 Fortune Boulevard in Milford. The petitioner proposes to develop and construct a 52 unit apartment development on the site with not less than 13 of the units to be restricted as affordable for low to moderate income persons pursuant to the applicable laws of the requirements of the financing agency. Uh the project eligibility

031letter was issued with this through mass housing finance on October 24th as well. So, with that, um, we'll turn it over to you. Please state your name, sir. >> My name is Jonathan Silverstein. I'm council for the applicant. Um, uh, Mr. Chair, as you know, the board voted to close the public hearing several months ago after holding a number of public hearing sessions at which various reports by the applicants consultants were discussed. in addition to peer reviews by consultants chosen by the board and paid for by the applicant. At the conclusion of the hearing, uh the board voted to close the hearing within the time required under um chapter 40b. Since then, we've been trying to uh work out acceptable conditions regarding sewer for both projects. I'll get to that in a moment. But um

032as a preliminary matter, I understand that the board has received some additional correspondence from uh the owner of neighboring property. Um, and I would urge the board not to consider or hear any additional evidence because that would constitute reopening the public hearing outside of the time allowed under chapter 40B and there hasn't been a renotice or advertisement of reopening the public hearing and I would respectfully submit that no additional evidence may properly be considered at this time. I also want to just note that all of the issues raised and I don't want to get into the the merits of it, but none of it relates to issues that weren't thoroughly discussed and addressed by the applicants, consultants, and the board's peer reviewers. So, I guess that's my initial um point that I' I'd like to

033raise with respect to >> Yeah. I think Jerry may have some comments on that. >> Yeah, it's it is a it's a funny situation we're in where the the you've been through eight or nine hearings over the course of the last eight or nine months. Uh and you're reaching near the end point. Uh and you did close the public hearing back in May. Uh back in May, uh and all the absorters got noticed. There were no notice issues on this at all. uh some people showed up but again you close the public hearing you have a draft decision which is attorney Silverstein is correct was based in large measure and in in the special conditions on recommendations of your peerreview consultants CI and BSC group so that's all in there which uh although I didn't

034compare the two I I I think they address a lot of the concerns that have been addressed in a letter uh so it to actually reopen the public hearing now would potentially create issues on any appeal. What's gone on in the interim since your last hearing is we've had meetings with the sewer department. The sewer was the last remaining issue, how that can be resolved. And uh we had uh meetings about a month or so ago. Uh the big difference in terms of what the sewer department wanted and what the applicant was willing to do probably narrow the differences somewhat, but didn't close the differences. And what I have here tonight for you is a recommended additional condition that satisfies what the sewer department would like. And again, I the applicant uh at this point

035in time is not satisfied with it. So that itself could bring about an appeal in any event. But I've got that condition already for you folks to to vote if that's if that's your desire. And again, you've got the original decision. So the two together could constitute your decision, if you're ready to do it tonight. The time is running, aside from this question of of opening the public hearing, the time is running on it before we could get into a constructive grant, which you don't want to happen. They did give us an extension um which is is still valid right now but not the real >> we're still in the time frame. >> You're still in the time frame right now but it's it's closing fast and if you can make a decision um tonight

036or scheduling a special meeting perhaps next week whatever you want to do as soon as possible to make a decision one way or the other. Uh and again you've got that drafted decision and everything is in there. I think you folks have reviewed it and the last condition would be this one which again the applicant may not agree with but that's neither here nor there at this point in time. Uh but reopening the public hearing is problematic, potentially problematic. You've got the letter that um was sent or a couple of letters that were sent. We did distribute those to the members and we put them online. So they're uh they're on the town's website. Uh so I'm sure each of you have seen it. >> Yeah, I I have and a lot a lot of

037the letter we've has been addressed through all of the meetings that we've had. Yeah, those exact in most >> consultants and and all of that has been already >> Yeah, in most cases exactly what CI was charged with doing and they did a fine job and what BSC group did too. >> Uh so that's the best I can say to you really. I mean it's if you allow people to speak on it uh you know again potentially I can't tell you what the results would be potentially there's another issue on appeal at that point in time. So I'm not saying not to do it. I know it's difficult to tell citizens that, you know, they can't be heard, but it is a little bit late to put it mildly, long past the original notice, uh,

0388 months into the process, so it's a little problematic. >> Yeah. And just for people's general information, um, all of these 40Bs have regulated due to the last ones that the town had well over 25 years ago. So what happens in these apartment complexes when the state approves this, the developer can bypass a lot of the local zonings and if and if they get a mass housing letter, it forces the town to move forward because we're under a certain percentage of affordable. So, what happened back four or five years ago, just so that you're aware, when all of these apartment units that the town of Milford had, we were at 10%. That was the site down on Depot Street, the apartment complex on Depot Street, way up off of um >> Congress Street. So, after

03925 years, the state allows those to go back, not be affordable anymore, and then they become market. And that's when you see these things start to get rehabbed to current day standards for market rent. What that did when all of those went offline, and you'll notice it in every single community you drive through, you see these new buildings, they all had the same situation. We went from 10% affordable units down to six or 5.8. >> 5.8. It was >> 5.8. That's why all of these came in and these are all allowed as a matter of right. If this board denied them, they would appeal it. We lose our negotiation and they can build exactly what they submitted. So that's why we caution everybody. We try to negotiate the best deal we can under the terms

040of our constructions and our our our tight aspects of what we can deal with. And in doing that, that's why you're seeing what's going on now. The restaurant depot, Stone Ridge One was built, Stone Ridge 2 was built, Stone Ridge 3 was permitted. So when this all happened, these few that the last few we have coming in, we were at 9.6%. That's where we were and then three more came in. Mass Housing has allowed this under the guidelines because we were not at 10%. So the building permit has to be pulled in order for it to count. So at 9.6% we did not have Stone Ridge to pull a building permit at that point in time. And then the other three came in. So they have the right to do what they're trying to do.

041We try to correct the impact that it can possibly to the best of our ability under our control. So that's why where we are these two projects of Beaver Street and and Fortune Boulevard. I think this is our eighth hearing or seventh hearing. >> Eighth or ninth? Yeah. >> Yeah. We we've been going along on these public hearings and those abutters have been notified early on last >> November I think. >> November. Yeah. So, we've been we're so far along on this, we've already drafted decisions that are drafted and just waiting on one or two more things that the developers got to commit. Whether that be sewer, well, the water is fine, too, but it's really the sewer. >> That's it. The sewers are last >> the sewer. So I just kind of give you

042an understanding of why we end up where we are now and why every community ended up this way is because years ago it was only affordable for 25 years. Now it's in perpetuity. So they cannot go offline and then have others built afterwards. >> So now it's in perpetuity. This >> clearly and again if the population of Milford goes to 40,000 >> then it changes. That could change again, but we're not we're not even close to that. >> We should be way up and above now. >> But I I just wanted to have to give you that general knowledge because a lot of people don't understand why all of this happens and why you're seeing all of these in every town. That's what's happening. Every single town hit their 25 year mark and they all

043went from 10% down to six. The other aspect of that is most of them in the in the outlining communities, whether it's Oxbridge or Douglas, if they don't have sewer, they can't make it work. They can't. It's not affordable to do. And that's why right now they've been working with the sewer department to try and come up and make sure that both sides are happy. That's not part of our purview, but they get no permit unless they've satisfied those issues. So, I just wanted to give everybody that kind of background so you get a little bit of a little bit of >> let is a prime tiger. >> Yeah. Well, they're all prime tigers. Franklin, Bellingham, anybody. >> Everybody Everybody's got it. So, any other questions concerning that? >> Okay. But, Mr. Chairman, we I

044have here well, as I indicated, a draft condition which John Mini is here. So, John and I worked in this along with their consulting engineers and we worked with the developer, too. But again, didn't reach a final agreement. But this is what I'm going to recommend to you and John and I are recommending to you um on both of them. Actually, I'll give you both for now. Um as something that if you so inclined, you can adopt. >> So Bobb's not here on this particular one. >> Yeah. >> Right. He was Bobby was a part of these two, right? >> I don't think he was not on these. >> No, there's just four of you. >> Oh, that's right. There was four of us. Yeah. >> So here's So that's one. I think you're doing

045technically 21 Beaver Street right now. >> Yeah. >> So, but here's the other one, too, just so you have >> Oh, that's right. >> Yeah. >> Give me one more. Can I have one more? >> Oh, did I the same thing? I >> sent the next one. >> That's 21 be 21 beas. ID 21. >> No, I need 21. >> Just Mr. Chair, when the time's right, if I could be heard on this. >> Yeah, >> this is uh the this is it. >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. Do you want to do you want to go ahead? >> Sure. Thank you. >> Do you want me to read this in? >> Oh, why don't you read it in and then I'll speak to it? This is number 18 by the way on the uh drafted

046uh decision. Um number 18. No occupancy certificate shall be issued for this project until all permits and approvals required by the Milford Sewer Department and the department's rules and regulations which would authorize connection to the Milford sewer system have been obtained by the applicant and the applicant shall have undertaken and completed at its expense. The construction related to the impacts to the 495 pump station is outlined in the September 6th letter from GHD, a copy of which is attached here too. Want me to read this letter? Um you could short it's fairly short. >> Yeah. Um this basically is from the uh Richard Cadella chairman of the board and sewer commissions along with Mr. Mini. Based on a number of discussions over the past several months between the town and the developer for the above

047reference project, the following will need to be addressed to accommodate new wastewater flow from the above reference development. Beaver Street impacts to the 495 pump station. replacement of 1,000 ft of 8 8 inch force man and this work does not allow the pumps to achieve 400 gpms. Then an upgrade pumps to achieve 400 gpm of pumping capacity. Through our many meetings with the developer, the town has brought up a number of upgrades that would need to be completed at this pump station. However, if the work if the work outlined above is completed, the town could determine not to require the lining of the incoming 8-in gravity pipe. And if the replacement of the force man is adequate, then the town could determine not to require the placement of the pumps and any work related to

048the pump replacement. The town would work with the additional improvements into the future capital improvements of the program as the budget allows. And therefore, that was the letter that went along with it. Go ahead. You have the floor. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, so as Mr. Rudy indicated um we've really been trying in good faith. Um and I certainly feel the same on the part of uh Mr. Moody and the sewer department. I think everyone's been trying in good faith, but we're nowhere near agreement. Um the proposed condition uh requires at a minimum work that's upwards of a million dollars between the two projects for a combined total of 150 160 units. That's absolutely cost prohibitive. It's also quite frankly requiring us to a thousand feet of sewer line that serves a lot more

049than our property is not proportional to our impact on the system. And I want to just quickly read to you from the state regulations, the chapter 40 regulations in the and this is um 760 CMR um 56.06 06 uh 07 um and it says that in the case of either a denial or an approval with conditions, if the denial or the conditions are based upon the inadequacy of existing municipal services or infrastructure, the board shall have the burden of proving that installation of such services adequate to meet local needs is not technically or financially feasible. Financial feasibility may only be considered where there is evidence of unusual topographical, environmental or other physical circumstances which make the installation of the needed service prohibitively costly. So what the regulations adopted by the state clearly say is it

050is the obligation of the town to provide this municipal service. If the town, which has been aware of the condition and the stresses on this system for many years, hasn't done the work it should have been doing to upgrade the system to provide adequate service to land within the sewer service area. That's not something that can be shifted as a prohibitive cost onto an applicant. There's no doubt that forcing these costs onto the these projects would render them uneconomic and that's the standard that the um housing appeals committee would look at if we were forced to appeal. Now, even though the regulations make it clear that the burden's not on us to fix an existing problem, we've really tried and I would urge the board to accept as a compromise to avoid us having to

051go to the housing appeals committee one of the alternative proposed conditions that I'd sent to Mr. Moody. And I'll just read them to you one by one. And I want to make a couple other points about this condition. It's upwards of a million dollars upfront. And then it says, "But if that doesn't work, we might make you do more work." We don't know, but we might. So it could be a lot more money. We have no idea. We might end up basically replacing two entire pump stations to fix a problem that we didn't cause. that's not resulting in failure of the system now. And I haven't seen any evidence that adding 50 units in the case of Fortune Boulevard or 100 units in the case of Beaver Street, that's going to be the straw that

052breaks the back of a camel that's been walking through the desert for the past couple decades. It's not a problem of our making. All of that being said, if it helps us avoid an appeal, we've offered to make payments of $200,000 for each project. And that's again not an insignificant amount contribution to go towards fixing a pre-existing problem. In the alternative, we've offered a condition that would have us obligated to pay a proportional share of the cost if the department actually decides to holistically fix this pre-existing problem, which I think makes a lot more sense. It would seem to me that if there's this limitation based upon the inadequacy of this pump station, upgrade the pump station and we'll pay our proportionate cost based upon our contribution, the percentage of contribution of our flow into

053the station. Um, and I also want to note that all of this is in addition to another hundredome,000 that we're going to have to pay in connection fees and INI fees. So, we're really we'd like to work with the board's been great to work with throughout this process. We don't want to end up in a an appeal where >> that can be a very expensive battle. It's expensive and frankly we feel like we've reached a lot of, you know, good compromises that would be off the table if we end up having to appeal because we'd be going back to the initial proposal and we wouldn't I mean obviously if we have to spend $200,000 litigating, we're not going to voluntarily make a $200,000 contribution to the system. >> 200 or 300 said 300 each. >>

054I said 200 each. >> Yeah. Mr. Chair to interject one thing. Uh just want to correct something, John, that you said. Um you said the 200,000 would be in addition to the the normal fees. Well, the normal fees, if I'm not mistaken, for these two projects together would be about 113. >> Everybody pays attention fees. >> Well, I'm saying but but what they they said here for the 200,000 is in lie of those fees. So, it's not in addition. They said >> that's my mistake. Uh >> whichever it is, >> we we'll correct that. In addition, >> in addition to that. So now you okay but >> but again let me just address one thing and and I'm sure that the chairman will allow you to go back. Um you know the sewer department has

055been on top of the sewer system for a number of years. We've had administrative consent orders uh that they've dealt with and they've worked under for years. Uh they've had major backups in some of these areas and they've had to rebuild these pumping stations and they've done that at taxpayer expense over many many years. uh and the attitude of the sewer commissioners is that but for these projects they wouldn't be the the system is working now. The system has been upgraded under the administrative consent orders. So but for these projects we wouldn't be doing anything. So basically no disrespect to the applicant but they're asking that we take care of this and so that they can then benefit in a nutshell >> which is fine but >> if he doesn't build us we don't have

056to upgrade. >> Well it'll become an issue in litigation. No question about it. I'm not going to talk about litigation. talking about if he doesn't build this project, we don't have to upgrade >> right now today. >> Do we have to upgrade if he doesn't build the project? >> No. >> Thank you. >> We wouldn't we wouldn't be doing it. Um but that'll become an issue on appeal and that housing appeals committee will have to address how they address. Can they force the town to undertake? >> Why should the town put out a million dollars to upgrade something? >> I'm not arguing with you. I'm just explaining how it's going to work. >> I also want to say there's no evidence that the town has to upgrade it if we do come online because >>

057that was the question I was going to ask. They're over capacity now. So, it's like saying, "Oh, well, you know, we're we're too high now, so we can't fit you in." You know, >> there too many clowns in this car. We couldn't possibly fit another clown in. There's no evidence of that. >> So, let me find one until after you build it. >> Let me make the suggestion. >> Basically, >> if we continue this for for till the next meeting, you think we can bank something out? I don't think so. We We've been trying. I I as I said, I think both sides have been trying in good faith. I think we're at the point where, >> you know, so is it a fact that it's over capacity right now and that this is just

058adding to the problem. >> This you could ask John maybe John capacity. It's not over capacity. This will throw it over. >> So that study then we looked at it. We gave the information for it. They've even hired a private company to look at it and they agreed that the stuff that we're >> sites at it's at capacity. >> It's at capacity. >> So that'll become the issue before the housing appeals or one of the issues before the housing appeals committee is are we at capacity? Can and and what power do they have under these circumstances to force the city or town to undertake something they wouldn't have otherwise undertaken. So, >> I don't I don't see how this board can explain to the people of Milford that we allowed this that we allowed money

059coming out of their tax money to pay for a source system that does not need to be currently upgraded. >> That's my take on this. >> You're not arguing with me, are you? >> I'm not No, you're arguing with me. >> I got to look at you. You're a counselor. >> Okay, people. Did you hear what I said? I'm looking at you. >> Yes. >> All right, Jerry. Which what do you want? You know, again, if if if the applicant doesn't want to continue, and I I appreciate what you're suggesting, and we'd always be >> suggest something just out of Sure. What are what are the conditions of the pumps right now? In other words, are they going even if it's not at capacity, are they going to need >> those pumps are rebuilt when

060we put the sharpen center over? So, the pumps are at capacity right now. direct capacity and that's why we said the changing the force man it's a 6-in force man taking it to an 8 in we believe will take care of airflow but we don't want to be hung out to dry on ourselves if it doesn't so that's why we put it in there to >> stipulation that if it doesn't do it then they'd have to put >> but as far as the the million dollars uh we got different figures than than the million dollars so >> what's your figure we had like a half 300 to 500,000. >> If it's done privately, if the town doesn't then it becomes a probably >> just keep that aspect in mind. It is important uh you know

061and every project that's come into the town 40bs and all there's always been these sewer issues that have to be upgraded. Right now the construction is ongoing on the new wet wells down on Cedar Street to accommodate Stone Ridge. You got to replace them. And in each case, it what one of the the issues, if you will, or one of the benefits to the town is that if the town's going to undertake this work, and we'll say it's normally $500,000 is what's going to cost the private party to do, it's going to cost the town $750,000 because of all the additional costs from the bidding and then the uh the wage rates that we have to pay. So, inevitably, it costs town cities and towns more than it does for a private developer. Hopefully, working

062together >> because of the prevailing rate. >> The prevailing wages. Yes. Yeah. So, that's just a that's a factor in the background. So, it's going to cost the town more than it would cost the private application. >> So, so, and I'm just asking John and John, I'm not going I'm not trying to put you on the spot. So, getting at least 200,000 each, will that help? >> That won't solve. No. In fact, we said if we have to do it then the price will go way up >> because you have to pay per billion wage >> billion wage >> and they and as a private entity then they don't have the capacity to do that. >> Correct. >> I'll tell you Mr. Chair we got just for the sewer line alone we got a quote

063of 400,000 and that's just on the sewer line. >> Is that is that a sleeve? >> It's a thousand. >> Is that a lining? >> Is that lining? No, no, no. Replace it. They want us to replace it with a new >> from a very large contractor in Upton. >> Um he said that there's there's groundwater in the area. He knows the area very well. And he gave us a number of 400,000 just for that. And in that situation, we still don't know. We can't budget. You know, if if it's a new pump station, is it $400,000 plus another $1.5 million? Because we have to rebuild the whole pump station. So now we're $2 million for 100 units. It's completely cost prohibitive. We just we just can't do that. Well, a project can't go forward

064without sewer. That's for sure. >> No, but again, Mr. Chair, I mean, I I guess I would just urge the board to consider the cost the risk benefit analysis here where we have a regulation that clearly says it's the town's obligation to provide this service and yet you can't deny or condition us >> because of that. Nevertheless, we're putting $400,000 on the table or agreeing to pay our proportional share of any future upgrade that's necessary, which could maybe create capacity for, you know, so that you're not constantly living on the edge forever. Alternatively, if we have to go and spend that money on litigation then absolutely that there are many cases we just want a case for Oxford where against Oxford where a project was denied because of sewer issues and that was overturned and

065they were ordered. Yes, you have to allow the connection. If that puts the town in non-compliance, D is going to order the town to upgrade. So, it's not us ordering the town, it's D. And this is a cost that the board would be imposing on the town without any contribution from the applicant if that's the way we're forced to go. And we don't want to. And I hope you'll agree, we've really tried to be make this a collaborative process from day one. We've taken all the board's suggestions to heart. We've made a bunch of changes. We made a bunch of concessions, but we it it literally is cost prohibitive. This project cannot be built without sewer. It also can't be built if we have to spend 400 grand replacing a sewer line only then to

066be told, "Oh, that didn't do what we want." So now you have to spend a boatload more money. Who knows? We're just going to keep telling you what you have to do until we see the result we want. That's the proposed condition in front of you. And it's just >> there's no way the housing appeals committee would uphold it. So >> I I Jerry I think I think and this is my personal opinion and I don't >> whatever the board >> uh members feel that's that's up to them. I I want to get my arms around this and I I would prefer to work with the developer, the sewer department and and you >> sure >> to see if we can grind something out that's acceptable before we go down of a road of an

067appeal that the town of Milford may lose and it will be clearly I I just I want to wrap I I need time to wrap my arms around. I'd like to I'd like to have a copy of that um as well if you would cooperate to give us until the next meeting so that we can see what we can kind of wrap our arms around. >> Sure. >> And if you could get me a copy of that like I'd like >> When's the time regulations? >> Well, I I you gave us an extension for 45 days from whenever that last email. John, >> you had given us extension of 45 days from a certain earlier point. We're not there yet. >> We'll figure out whatever the date. Well, whatever it is, you're agreeing to continue.

068>> Let's look at a date. >> The next meeting is October 9th. October 9th is the next meeting. So, >> so why don't we >> We could do it sooner, too, if we if it happens sooner, but we'll be meeting sooner, but your next formal meeting is October 9th. >> 9th 30th. >> It may take that long to if we accomplish anything, it may take that long. >> And by the way, just to put background, I would not be recommending to you that you deny it based on sewer. You'd lose that. No. I understand. The question is the condition you put. What condition? >> I understand. I understand. >> Not denial. >> You lose a denial on appeal. Yes. >> Not necessarily a trial starting in Springfield on the 29th. >> We could push it

069to a >> not ideal, but I could do it. >> It's up to you. Do you want to do like >> Are you okay to wait? >> Yeah. >> October 1st. >> My trial's going to go through that next week. >> During the appeal, >> are you okay next regular meeting or do you want >> We have We have Bellingham. All right. >> They cut up a hold condition. If you put a condition on a hold >> um >> running at 6:00 >> 6:00 >> for the 9th meeting. >> Mr. Chair, could could we suggest a special meeting as your next meeting? We we're have a hearing in Bellingham. Sure. >> Um could we suggest Um, how about >> would um October 2nd work for you? Yeah. >> Would October 2nd work for the board?

070>> October second. Yeah, >> October 2nd. Yes, >> that's a um >> Tuesday. >> Thursday. >> Okay. Got something going on. >> We should be okay. Well, my question though is what's the other >> on the other project? >> Same thing. >> It's basically the same issue. >> We've been wanting same condition. >> They want us to dig a new >> almost new wet well. >> A new wet well. >> Okay. >> The same size as the existing one. >> I presume we'd be continuing both of them and talking about both of them. >> That's correct. >> Yeah. >> Um >> unless you have something else you want to >> No, that that's it. So, uh would that be six o'clock on >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we could do we can do 6:00 >> unless

071you've got some travel issues that you need to delay. >> Every town takes an hour to get in town. >> Our town. >> Oh, I made that mistake. Sorry. >> I travel I understand. >> We can't water. We can't do anything. >> We're on a different hearing right now. So, please be patient. Thank you. I appreciate you you're trying to work with us. Um, >> so >> could I make a suggestion? I don't want to overstep, but would it make sense for the board maybe to designate a member to participate in these? >> I am. >> You're going to be perfect. >> Excellent. >> I nominated myself. >> I love it. >> We seconded it. >> Appreciate your time. >> Now, when are we meeting with the private part of it? But well, we're going

072to meet that. That's going to have to be arranged. Yeah, we'll arrange that. John, we're going to have that before >> we're going to meet >> Oh, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Sooner the better, obviously. >> John, >> yeah, I can make sure the engineers, right? >> All right. What are you a couple You need a week notice, John. John, a week notice. All right. >> A week notice. Four or five days. What do you need? >> Well, I got to make sure the the engineers >> Okay, that's fine. All right. Okay. >> All right. So, um I have a motion. You got a motion for to continue this till October 2nd 6 p.m. >> Whatever extension we need, we'll just figure out. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that's fine. >> Yeah. So, it's I have

073a motion. I have a second. >> Seconded by Dave. So, this is continued till October 9th. >> Dave. Both of them. Right. >> 6 p.m. Both of them. >> The second. >> What did I say? >> You said the ninth. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> The second. Both of them. Yes. >> October 2nd. All right, gentlemen. Thank you so much. >> Been working for years on these things. I'm getting tired >> today. Second. >> Oh, you're not going. You're not going >> only one hearing. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, gentlemen. >> All right. See you later. >> John, you were on this panel, right? One, two. Who's the other one? Dave was on this. Was on this. Four of us. >> Four of us. [Music] >> Okay. >> Melissa, do you have the um go

074in the big >> seats. Yeah, you guys are next. >> Does anybody need to take a quick break before we start the next hearing? I've got to use the bathroom. >> Give us a two-minute break real quick. [Music] You're making my arm hurt. >> Oh, Jesus. Don't do that. >> The second time somebody's done that today. People think it's People think it's my uncle. >> They don't know that it's my >> I think we get the hangry mob from all those other [Music] >> um the board usually likes him. I wouldn't hand him out to the crowd. The law's been in place for 60 years and it's a long city. I don't know just like set the context of what's happened or no [Music] explain how there was an error in the notice and last

075time we came and came off and Yeah, I I would just start with that and then I'll jump over. >> It's crazy. I don't have any water. >> You're talking about something else. I don't think I'll get into the building the certificate and stuff unless No, I'm thinking like later on if they call themselves somebody says >> I wonder if they'll say that if he said something you can address. You're absolutely right and all those building permit situations shown up there 18 months if they don't close back off. I mean, I don't know what >> it's not a payoff. It's just >> these projects, you know, they'll get a year for these guys. So, that's 15 or something units, right? This is because may not be >> not get them under statewide statewide. >> But

076no one else got >> Oh, absolutely. >> No, that stage four. Everybody's at stage four. I don't I haven't done the math, but it is a risk. >> The drone is statewide. >> It's weird to sit and talk about a table. >> Usually I'm at like a table on the the next floor. standing at a podium the other way. >> Yeah. I was thinking like wall Pam you stand up for you don't just nobody here nobody stands they sit here talking >> you know we're not even allowed to consider >> I mean that's fine I'm just saying >> I legislature the governor's one >> I think I mean to the extent you can I don't use anything that people have said out of the block I mean, we're going to go through the comments that

077we have heard and what will be changed in response. Bring it back. >> I don't think anybody in the crowd's going to give a >> This is a replacement. I did a rotator cup earlier. >> Mine's reverse, too. Please, >> do you want to sit? >> Where's the plan? director. [Music] >> That's That's Write down please. >> Okay. Not there. [Applause] Okay. This is on the uh application page two. Sorry. It's on the application of the limited division LLC of WP's acquisitions LLC Hotwell Place third floor suite 300 Lexington for a comprehensive permit uh pursuant to general laws chapter 40B in relation to a 7.8 acre parcel more or less of land located on the north northerly side of East Main Street known and numbered as 190 East Main Street in Milford. The petitioner proposes

078to develop and construct a 200 residential unit, fourstory residential buildings related structures which buildings include a mix of one two bed of onebedroom, twobedroom and threebedroom units. The development will contain the requisite number of low to moderate incomes with their project eligibility letter that was issued by Mass Housing Finance Agency relation to a site uh on September 5th. with that. Um, again, um, I'm happy first of all that we finally got the abuters notified. Um, [Applause] clearly, it clearly was certainly a mistake and if you want error, that's all. >> Yeah, Jerry will explain what happened, but there was a notice given. It wasn't the proper notice. the notice was went out to 100 feet which was part of the conservation hearing process >> and they they just for some reason there was a screw

079up and the the re the reg the regulations are that a butter iss within 300 ft need to be notified by certified mail. I myself actually when I got a letter when I got the first letter I actually went and visited that home on Prairie Street. I went there twice knocked but nobody was home. So that's when things kind of we started to realize that maybe some of these people were not notified and then we dived into it and realized that this particular situation happened. So again it was not my fault or the zoning board's fault developer instead of doing 100 300 ft he did 100 ft which was for the conservation hearing and not actually for the site >> to reduce it to a simplest. Somebody checked the wrong box on a form. They

080checked the box for conservation as opposed to for zoning. So the wrong the wrong addresses came in and then the mistake just happened that way. Check the wrong box and I'm glad someone called corrected now. >> And what you should do now is give the applicant an opportunity to make a presentation as if you hadn't heard anything before. Make a presentation as to what it is. Of course you have all the documents are available. You have them. They're online and they've been online since the uh the beginning of the process and as other ones come in they go up online. But to start the process over again in theory, this is the first night to have the applicant make a brief presentation as to what the project entails would be the way to approach it

081right now. >> Can I can I just say something to the audience if I may, David? Sure. >> Everybody's got to understand that these 40Bs don't come to us and then we make a decision. Yes or no. The state of Massachusetts approves them and they tell us we have to approve them with certain regulations, restrictions within reason. Not true. >> Mass Massachusetts and the federal government cannot force you on 40 beats. I got that. A matter of fact, I'm going to quote you some law. >> Okay. >> Jerry, you want to jump in on that? >> Well, you know this this this is an application under general laws, chapter 40. It's been in place for for uh for 60 plus years. >> Okay. >> And you have to process that application. You have to hear

082that. You have no choice but to go for it. Nothing says that you have to grant it. Nothing says that you got to make your decision. You got to make a decision based upon the evidence. And I would if I were in your position, I'd listen to the evidence and then after all the evidence is in, make a decision. >> That's all. It really is that simple. Uh no, you can be forced to grant it. You can be a lot of things can happen on appeal if there's ever an appeal and they can get what they want. >> Right now, your board should just >> We haven't been in a position to win one of these yet. just just listen and >> so what we're going to do I'm asking I'm going to ask the

083develop to go through the whole presentation once that's complete >> the zoning board members will ask additional questions and then we're going to turn it over to anybody who would like to make public comments always remember one thing we're not going to beat a dead horse in the mouth with the same question being repeated and repeated >> two minutes >> it's we'll give you what we have we have a ton reports here. It's also online, but we'll go through it step by step. We want you you're supposed to be involved in this because you're a buddies and you have the right to voice your opinion and we're going to respect that whether it's good or bad, but we don't need repetitive the same question. And as far as water is concerned, just get me that

084get that out front. The Milford Water Company is the one that provided documentation that we have the water. Yes, we do have seasonal droughts. We've had them for 20, 30 years. Housing is the same thing. We all have the right to develop our property and live in our homes. Some of you have new homes back there because you had the right to develop them. Some of you may have been there for 50 years. That person had the right to develop the property. These gentlemen come in with this concept. We are going to listen to it. And then at that point, whether the decision is yay or nay or whether things change, we don't know. But we want to go through the process and provide that as a matter of right that they have to do.

085So we're going to let them start from scratch because we want you to be informed of what they're trying to do and then we'll take questions after that. Okay. And again everything that you do just come through me. We'll make sure that we get the answers. All right. Great. Thank you. Please introduce yourself so that everybody knows who you are whether you're attorney, engineer, project developer, consultant. >> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, good evening. Appreciate your time and and uh seeing you again. So, this as you mentioned, you know, this is a little bit of a different scenario. We we are going to start from the beginning and and present the entire project, but we are going to present it how it was originally presented and show changes that have been

086made since we've heard comment from the board and from others in the departments in the town. So, we're going to start from scratch, but we're going to kind of weave in the revisions that have been made to the project over the last several months. Um, so with that in mind, starting from the beginning, introduce ourselves. I'm Jim Lambert. I'm a managing director for Wood Partners. Wood Partners is the development entity behind WP East Acquisitions, the applicant in this case. Um, I run the office. We are a uh multif family development company specializing in class A groundup development. We have been developing in Massachusetts since about 2008. We've built over 5,000 units of housing in that period of time in the state, all across the state. Um, and again, I want to stress that we're building

087class A housing. So, this is very high-end uh housing. Um, if you could, Kellen, you could flip to the next page. Just quickly for everybody, a couple of examples of projects that we've built throughout the state. Going from top left, uh, Alta Union House in Framingham, which was in the downtown, Alta Easterly in Walpole, Alt to Clare at the Fels in Stonem, and the Westerly in Franklin. Just a sampling of what we've built uh over the past eight plus. >> We built the Framingham in about 2020, 2019, 2020. >> Seven or eight years. >> Yeah, about five years before my just give me some years. They're all these all these projects are all kind of in the late, you know, 19 uh 2018 to 2022 range, put it that way. And then we have a

088host of projects that are in construction around the state right now. We're currently building in Abington uh and Bolton. And then we have other projects uh on in Marboro that is completed and lease up and one in Worcester that's completed and we lease up as well. So, I I think just suffice to say, we show these examples that show the quality that we build. Um that that often comes up in 40B hearings of what do you you know, what kind of product are you building? We build high-end product, class A housing. Slide. Uh just to quickly introduce the team that we have here tonight. We have everybody with us so that we can both present and also answer questions all the way through the process. So obviously we we've already introduced ourselves at Wood Partners,

089but I have with me um Kellen Ara, my development team who's working the computer and Mike Tulani from our pre-development team who's going to speak to architecture a little bit later on. Uh we have Paul Moss from Allen and Major, our civil engineer. We have um Bart Leinsky from Grady Consulting. Some Bart's in the back who's the landscape architect. We have Dan uh I was lasciva from Vaness and Associates, our traffic engineer who I know you want to talk to and Jim Ward from Nutterard Legal Council. So all these folks will get a chance to speak and answer questions tonight. Um so we we showed this slide the first time around. I just want to touch on this one quickly. I know we're not in the downtown, but the town has recently published um some

090reporting that there's a focus on development of the downtown in Milford. We're we're just about a mile outside of what you might consider the core of the downtown, probably a little closer to the edges certainly, but I want to make the point that people within that range will uh utilize the services and amenities and restaurants and shops that are in the downtown. And so we're not far-flung uh away up up somewhere up 495. We believe that folks living here want these services. They want to be within walking distance of these shops and restaurants and other offerings. And that one of the things that make this site a really good site for multif family housing is the fact that it's located near all this retail both existing on East Main Street but also further down in

091the downtown in in the main street area as well. All right, quick project overview. So, this first page is going to show where we stand today and then the next page we're going to show some of the revisions in summary and then we'll go through the plans in detail. So, location, as you noted, 190 East Main Street. Um, it is now 8.47 acres. So, we've actually added about a half acre of land since the original application to get the parking count up from where we started to where it is today. We have one three-story building, which originally was a four and three four-story buildings, a separate clubhouse building, surface parking, and other amenities on the site. The residential buildings will include a mix of one, two, and threebedroom units. 180 units, but that's where we

092are today, >> right? You didn't say that, though. Get there. Um, the clubhouse amenity area will be located in the middle of the site with an outdoor pool, fire pit, and and barbecue grills. We have 342 parking spaces, which is over a 1.9 parking ratio, up significantly since where we started at a 145. There will be EV stations included, and bike parking as well. And as we saw in some of the pictures earlier, we've got a state-of-the-art uh amenity uh offering typically u housing on-site property management. I think most importantly, resident lounges, business centers, and fitness. And then, of course, because it's part of the 40B program, 25% of the units uh will be designated affordable up to 80% of AMI, but all the units would count towards your SHI count for the town of

093Milford. So, here this is this is important. So, when we first made this application and putting aside, you know, the the fact that some folks here tonight haven't, you know, actually seen the presentation, >> no one >> were here. >> No one else. >> Where we started was 200 units in that project at 200 units was peer-reviewed. We've responded to those peer reviews. The board has seen a 200 unit plan. We've received comments. We've we've come back. We've cut that down significantly to 180 units. And I think most importantly, we've increased the parking ratio significantly from under a 1.5, I think we were at 1.45 originally to 1.9, almost a full two 2.0. So, a significant boost in parking ratio. As I mentioned before, we to ac uh accomplish that, we actually are acquiring another

094half acre or so of land. So, we started at 7.89 acres. We're now at 8.47 acres. Um, that's how we really, you know, solve the parking issue. And then we've reduced the scale of the buildings. There was a four-story building fronting East Main Street in the original plan. That's now been revised down to a three-story building. Um, since our last hearing, we've met with the fire department. The plan that you'll see tonight is actually encompasses some changes that came out of the conversations with the fire department and how they wanted to see the site operate. And then also what you'll see in the plan is the addition of significant portion of the site being bounded by fencing u and landscaping that was not also originally part of the plan. So with that uh Paul I'm

095going to turn over to you to to go through the site um and uh so Paul Moss from from Allen a major civil engineer is going to walk you through the site. We'll go through the site then we'll go through some architecture. So again, this presentation here was the original presentation that was presented to the board. I showed the 200 units. So if you go to the next, >> can you do me a favor? Um, can you take that microphone, bring it up so people can hear you at home? >> Yeah, maybe on that side maybe better so people can see. >> All right. So this plan right now in front of you, mic on. Yeah, I guess. So this plan here is the current plan that we have presented with you with 180 parking

096spaces. Uh to access the site, we was that >> 180 units. So to access the site, we've provided our driveway access on the westerly side of the property, which is the highest point on Main Street. So that helped us with elevation wise. Uh the first 110 ft of this drive aisle is sloped at a 4 and a half% which is still ADA compliant. And then after that, the entire site uh parking lot and access sidewalks and stuff are all graded at about 1 to 2% to allow for accessibility and to drain waters onto the low points. Uh as you can see from the site plan here, we have continuous uh pedestrian routes and vehicle roots roots around the site where there's really no dead ends. And then we have the parking parking lot here on

097the west side that again provides a continuous loop for cars to get in and out. Uh the next slide please. Uh next slide. And the next one. Next one. Oh, this one here is our grading and drainage plan. As you can see from the the contours and >> can you do me a favor just so because some people if they're not familiar with development if you could actually point to the buildings and how many units are in each building approximately so they got a kind of a idea of >> Okay. if that because some people may not be they're looking at lines and boxes. >> Yep. >> And some people and I know they don't understand the elevations, too, any of that stuff. >> Okay. So, so basically this building here, building A, which is

098the one at front on East Main Street, is a three-story building with uh 36 units. Uh then we come up here and we got three buildings that are run parallel with each other. Each one of these are four stories each with 48 units each. And then in the middle here, we have our clubhouse. That's about 5200 square feet of of space with a pool and and a pool uh amenity shed area to accommodate the equipments associated with the pool. So, go over the um if you would go over the back the back of the site and the left side of the site so that any people that have houses back there can see where the property line borders versus where they are, let's say. So that green area on the top >> that here is

099all the existing wetlands. We have wetlands that surround the property. So basically the wetland line comes from this corner here comes down all the way out to East Main Street and inside that wetland system there's an existing drainage share that directs water towards the municipal drainage system out on East Main Street. Uh the property line is shown here in the red shadows line and it goes out to Prairie Street and then it kind of continues up through here. Again, as previously mentioned, drive access is on the west side and it provides a continuous loop around all the buildings with sidewalks. And then uh as previously mentioned on the grading, we started on the high side being at the Wesley side of of uh East Main Street and we come up at a 4 and a

100half% grade uh to get the elevation and then after that the grades pretty much are relatively flat at 1 to 2%. Uh we have a storm water management system here which consists of deep sump hooded catch basins located throughout the parking lot and low points and each of those catch basins are interconnected to manholes and then those manholes eventually flow into a water quality structure to provide 80% TSS removal prior to being discharged into an infiltration basin underneath subsurface system. One here we have one at the south uh east corner and then we have one on the westerly side of the property. All those outlets, drainage systems have been designed with outlet control structures to meet pre-development uh conditions for flow rates. Uh the system has been designed in accordance with the Massachusetts storm water

101handbook and in accordance with the MS4 general permits for Massachusetts. On next page, please. And the next one, this plan here is basically showing the utilities for the property. Uh basically we're showing uh each building will have a separate sewer connection into an internal uh network of sewer pipes and manholes that are going to flow with gravity down to uh East Main Street and tie into the existing 8 in line on East Main Street. Uh once they get into the existing uh sewer system on East Main Street, it's going to flow westerly towards the sewer pump station at East Maid and Medway. Uh we are working with the sewer department to potentially upgrade that pump station out at the intersection of uh East Main and and Medway. For the water system, we're proposing to tie

102into the existing 12-in main on the norly side of uh East Main Street. The water line is going to continue through our property and it's going to loop around all the interior drive aisles and each building will have its own separate connections for uh domestic and fire service. Uh as we discussed this uh water connections with the water department, they requested that we provide uh a true loop out to Prairie Street. So we're showing the line connecting out to the existing main out on Prairie Street. All utilities Oh, all underground util uh all electrical and telecommunication lines will be underground. Uh they will be coordinated with National Grid. We have a bunch of transformers located at opposite each building. where they would be provide a secondary conduit runs into the building. That's the basics for

103grading drainage and uh utilities. If anybody has any questions on that >> one entrance, the one that you said, >> there's only one answer. It's correct. >> Just one. >> Y [Music] >> can you uh can you point out the property that you're acquiring to make it larger just so that people are aware? >> Yeah. So, the original property line came straight across through here. Well, here's the original property line. It's here. And if we go to the next one, we acquired this piece of property here down to Main Street, which is about a half an acre or more. >> And there's no exit on that street. >> There's no exit on that street. We do have a a fingertip projection that does go out to Prairie Street. It's only about 20 ft wide, but

104we do not have uh a legal connection to this to have vehicles go that way. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> So, just remind me to do that. >> My name is Mike Tulipani. I'm with Wood Partners. I'm just going to walk you quickly through the architecture of the buildings and the floor plans. >> Um, >> excuse me. We can't we can't hear you. >> The people are talking, so please pay attention here. Thank you. So, as as Paul mentioned, there's two residential building types. There's a three-story building at the front of the bottom of the site on the bottom of the plan here, and then there's three of the same buildings in the back. The three-story floor plan is right here. Um, there are some subtle differences between the buildings, which I'm going to

105show you. So, the three-story building has three separate entrances. You can see here right in the middle where there's stairs. As you enter each cluster, there's four apartments on each floor. So, there's 12 units that serve this stair. 12 and 12 that makes up the 36. Um, and then there's there's units surrounding those on all three floors. On the fourstory building, which is shown down here, the entrances to the buildings on the exterior sides uh with the stairs on either side as well. So, this building has a central corer and the apartments are similar to a hotel like if you think of a Marriott hotel, there's a central corer with uh doors on both sides of the carter. So, the buildings are set up slightly different. Um, the three-story building has 36 units, 10 onebedrooms,

106four one-bedrooms plus dens, and then 14 two beds. The four-story building has 24 one beds, 22 beds, and four three bed units. >> Four four three beds per building. >> How many? >> Four. >> So, that building total units on the four story is how many? >> 48. Uh you can go to the next side. So these are the um straight-on elevations of the three-story building which is again is in the front of the front of the site. Um all of the buildings have pitched roofs that as you can see in these renderings here at these angles of the roofs. They're asphalt shingles. The rest of the building is broken down into bays which you can see here which have again separate roofs. Front and back front and back elevations are fairly similar. Um the

107materials are are fiber cement panel uh with board and batten and you can see these verticals and I have some renderings I'm going to show you that shows it a little better than this but I'm just going to walk through it and then lap siding at the upper floors and then there's some board and bat mixed in to give it a different flavors. These bays here are bumped out 2 feet to get some dimension and some shadow lines. Um yeah, we can go to the next slide. This is the same elevations of the four-story building. Uh very similar, but again these are the end elevations. So the end here instead of in the middle there's multiple buildings. This is the amenity clubhouse building. And again we have renderings of this. Uh it's a one-story structure

108with a pitch roof. This is the main entry right here which goes all the way through the building. If you look at the building from the side right here is this elevation. So this piece here, you can see this roof continues through the building. So when you walk into this double, this is a double height space that goes within the roof. You get a view of courtyard in the distance and then the amenity spaces are off of that courtyard and the hallway that leads to the middle. So this is a rendering of a very similar project uh that we have under construction. Now, same building types, uh, same design. In the background here is a fourstory building. So, this gives you a little better flavor of the depth, um, in the in the breaking up

109of the massing. This is the amenity clubhouse building here. Um, that has this is the outdoor space. There's a a small dining area, grill area, uh, some green space. The pool in our project would be right here on this side. Ken, you can go to the next slide. This is another view a little further out. I'm showing you the um this is the back side because it faces the the uh the amenity space, but the front of the building on the other side where you will that you'll see when you come into the site has a very similar facade. Big windows, lots of lots of natural light. Uh you can go to the next one. This is the pool. Uh this is a a rendering of again another project, but we have you know concrete

110patio, lots of seating, a pool fence that we have to provide per code. Um, and then it has access and it's locked off. You need a fob to get in here, so no children can sneak in. Nobody can sneak in or out of it. Uh, it's all secure. Um, but the residents really like the the pools. This is a closeup of the amenity building that that entry I showed you is right here. So, you come out here and there's some seating areas, uh, some grill stations, etc. This is a rendering of the threetory building. uh had it has similar features, but it's a full story lower. And again, this shows the front entry instead of the side entry that the previous building showed. We have a base with the board and batten siding um as

111well as the lap siding up above. This is a photo of uh one of our other projects that has the same four-story building. So, this is an actual photo of a project that's just completed. So you can see the detail the the base the roof the board and batten siding etc. And then this is uh on the same project this is the amenity building. Um you can see the glass this is the central central entrance piece that goes all the way through. And that's essentially it. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Do you have any questions? Um actually I'll probably start off with just a couple of comments. So it's really for the benefit of of >> I just want to interrupt. When I said that's it, that's the the architecture portion. >> All right,

112keep going. >> There there is more. >> Okay, >> I'm just not >> I will not interrupt you. I don't want to spoil your mojo because I may spoil it later. >> Good evening. My name is Bart Leinsky. We are the landscape architects. This will be quick. Um but just to kind of go over the plantings that we would be proposing. Obviously street trees where we can get street trees. We try to get as many uh street trees in parking areas, corners, um open spaces to kind of bring the landscape down uh and scale down with the buildings. Um as Mike described, the the central part of the site is the clubhouse, separate pool with patios. You have a small pool house for some pool equipment. We also have a small uh patio that's outside

113the pool fence which will have an outdoor kitchen, so grills. Um, and the the rear portion of portion of the clubhouse is going to have a little lounge area with fire pits, seating um kind of got a good idea of that in the last couple pictures. And then for the most part the buildings we tried to get a a biggest foundation planting we can get um on on on parking sides um so that we have an evergreen planting all year. And then at the same time we have AC units that we're going to work on uh trying to hide as well. So whether you're driving in or walking in, we have plants um all around to help scare scale down the project. And then as Paul mentioned too, we do have the whole left side

114of the site is privacy fence. Um, >> what are you what what are you proposing for privacy fence? >> I think we just have it as a wood private uh >> doing we're not doing wood. I'll tell you that right now. We're not doing wood. That's my that's a no. But >> well a p a sixoot privacy fence. >> Um >> just chain if you said chain link I probably would have went out of my mind. No, no privacy as much as we could do. Um, as Mike said, that's it for the landscape portion. So, we'll be answer any questions that >> Yeah. What I'd like to do is the engineer on site. Where's our engineer? Um, and I'm I'm bringing this up for the benefit of of the abutters and the neighbors. There's wetlands

115back there. Um, I heard a comment, this will be the second time I heard a comment concerning I don't know if someone indicated there's blockage back there or that the there's um there's some type of situation going back over there that wasn't maintained. I'm not sure. Can you give me an indication of how you're handling just show them on the plan the actual groundwater from the site and you you explained it but you did it on the other plan. Just show how you're handling the groundwater from the site where it's heading and where it's going. >> All right. So again, the way we're handling storm water is that we're designing three subsurface infiltration systems. One is going to be located at this lower corner here. One at this back corner, back upper corner here. And

116then we have another one here. All three of them have outlet control structures. They're going to discharge. >> Say that slowly so they know what that means. >> You have outlet control structures are going to be designed to meet pre-development conditions. So if you have uh 10 gallons of water going to the wetlands today, you're going to have 10 gallons of water going into the wetlands tomorrow. So again, I'm just throwing out 10 gallons. That's just a not a realistic number, but that's what just trying to >> One for one. Yes. So, basically, the water is going to drain out into the wetland system. And again, there's an existing ditch that runs along the property line, comes through this uh concrete head wall here and continues down out to East Main Street where it ties

117into the municipal drainage system and continues on uh through the Mass DOT system and into the uh municipal Milford system. And is that drainage system on your property? >> Which drainage system? >> The the natural one or the one you just pointed out? >> It's right on the property line. It's a the property line is is in the center of that ditch. How >> about the head wall? >> The head wall. Part of it's on my property. Part of it's on the property associated with the quarry. So So who maintains that >> to make sure that water is flowing or hasn't been maintained? >> Well, right now it probably hasn't been. >> So that's the problem we have. We've contacted the town. Talent says it's not theirs. It's run off from Baffford. Baff Baffford's not

118going to do nothing with it. So, nobody is maintaining. >> So, we That's why I asked the question. >> Yeah, we'll maintain it. >> We will maintain. >> All right. Can you continue? I I don't know the shape of that uh head wall, but that's the reason why I I wanted to have this discussion. >> Okay. >> With the uh with the drainage. So again, like I said, there's an existing ditch that runs along the property line and it continues to flow out into the East Main Street municipal system. >> Where you going to put snow? >> Uh we have some designated areas on the plan. Again, it's not we don't really have realistic a lot of uh real estate on the property, but we'll try to maneuver them to the outside perimeter edges, interior

119landscape islands, and then once when it gets to a certain point, it has to be trucked off site. And that's something that the developer >> Yeah. We'll have some type of >> we propose the condition to remove this now within a certain period of time. >> Yeah. Because I think if you start to push the load to that side, you know, all the going to start to melt on other people yards. >> I mean, that's a big concern. >> We're not going to That's not going to happen. >> Well, I I saw a bunch of other places. I'm I'm doing under construction and I saw other places, you know, that what's >> Oh, I understand. I understand. They they've already agreed that >> they've already talked about this, >> right? They've already agreed to take

120off the property. >> One thing I did say, you know, they have a high elevation. >> I have a water in my house. You know, >> that should be >> water table. Water table up there is high. >> The water table's up there high. >> So, what let's let him go through and then we'll start addressing some of those. Go ahead. >> So, you're good. >> I'm good. Yeah. Please do the traffic because that's going to be a that's going to be a bone of content. [Music] >> You don't think it's going to be nice and quick, Mr. Chair? >> Can I can I interrupt real quick? Let him get through this presentation. You guys will have plenty of times for questions. I promise, but the constant going back and forth and bantering amongst yourselves

121doesn't help anybody here. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Uh for the record, my name is Daniel Lasciva. I'm a traffic engineer with Manassin Associates. We are the traffic consultants for the project and we completed the traffic study, the transportation impact assessment for the project. Uh you can jump forward two slides. Just kidding. Sorry, it was only one. So back one. Uh so just kind of give you an idea of where we started and where we have uh ended as of this point as it relates to traffic. uh you've heard mentioned a couple times a peer review. Uh the traffic study that we prepared was one of those things that has been peer- reviewviewed. And what peer-reviewed just essentially means is another professional traffic engineer hired um on behalf of the town

122of Milford has reviewed our traffic study, reviewed the methodology that we've uh completed the study with, reviewed the uh outcomes that we proposed as well as the uh recommendations relating to the uh transportation infrastructure. So it started in January of this year where we published the uh the traffic study uh where we essentially assessed the impact of the project. Uh then the first peerreview letter from the town's peer reviewer BSC came in in uh early April uh which pretty much just provided minor comments um as they related to the uh traffic study in general. uh they they indicated that the uh study was performed in general accordance with uh industry standards um and they generally agreed with the methodology outcomes and recommendations. There were just a few minor essentially requests for more uh information which

123we then followed up with a uh June 2nd response letter. we took no exceptions to many of their comments and provided full and detailed responses. Uh that a couple days later we received essentially a clean peerreview letter um from the peer reviewer stating that they had no additional comments uh that we hadn't answered as of that time. So that's kind of where we have ended um at this point uh as it relates to transportation. Uh you can go to the next slide. Uh this is just shows the location of the project. Um one thing I will note is that just for the record uh this does not show the additional parcel of land. This is from the original traffic study we had prepared. Similarly to that we have not gone back and not uh updated

124the numbers as a part of the traffic study uh with the reduction in trips. The original study we did was for 200 uh units and we have essentially taken the stance that the uh recommendations as they relate to 200 units any of our analysis that we completed um remains the same for uh 180 units despite the uh 10% um reduction in total number of uh units. Next slide please. So the study area that we assessed for the uh project consisted of a um number of major intersections along East Main along Route 16 uh which is a mass DOT owned road uh by the vicinity of the project site. Uh starting from we'll go west to east. Um the uh farthest west being the signal lines intersection with Cedar Street uh which as I'm sure all

125of you know also uh goes up and connects to another um interchange along 495 up there. Then coming to the east, we looked at Hamilton Avenue uh which is a one-way road at uh this intersection uh that provides the fastest way. Say you were coming from the project site or coming from the uh interchange over here provides the fastest way to get to uh Cedar Street going into that uh um part of Milford. Uh then the major signalized intersection with 109 as well as uh Prairie Street. then going past the uh project site which is about here um going over to Fortune Boulevard and Beaver Street. So that was the study area that we assessed. Uh we went out and we conducted traffic counts at uh all of these intersections as well as on uh

126Route 16 right by the vicinity of the project site just to assess uh baseline existing conditions. And I'm sure that none of you here um need to be told this. Um Route 16 carries a little uh under 12,000 vehicle trips over the course of an average day uh with anywhere between 700 to 900 vehicles during the uh peak hours, the rush hours, uh when most people are commuting to or from uh work. Um what I'm sure you also don't uh need me to tell you is that uh based on these traffic counts and based on our um existing conditions analysis, we did note that there was some um existing operational deficiencies is a kind of fancy way we um like to say there are some delays and some queuing at a lot of these intersections.

127Um a lot of you may have seen them here today. I myself also drove through them today. Um so you do not need me to uh tell you that in addition to that and uh these are things that are noted by both the town and uh Mass DOT. Um a couple of these intersections are uh what's called high crash locations. Essentially they have an above average crash rate for the mass DOT uh district that Milford is in which I believe is three. So all of this to say um that these are known issues. They're known by the town and they're known by Mass DOT. To that point, DOT has, I believe, two projects and the town of Milford has one project um within this area either along Route 16 or on Route 109 that already

128have funding for the design and construction and uh implementation of roadway uh improvements with a overall effort to uh fix um uh some of the capacity restraints as well as uh more importantly uh to um enhance safety for all users of the roadway for motorists, for pedestrians and for bicyclists. Um so kind of as uh we were providing recommendations as they relate to site access things like that, we just wanted to make sure that our project is designed to be able to come in and connect to those um plan improvements. And because uh Route 16 where the project site is is mass DUT owned uh the project will need a mass DOT access permit. So as a part of that DOT is going to come in and uh provide their comments and essentially make sure

129that uh our project is able to come in and connect to those planned improvements. >> Just so people are aware, Route 16 is state, not town of Milford. So they control Route 16. >> Correct. Yes. So, um ultimately they uh they uh have the ability to uh grant a driveway permit essentially um which can include a a couple of uh different things, but here it's an access permit. We're coming out directly um on to the state highway. Um additionally, kind of as we're looking at uh safety, um we uh reviewed sight lines at the proposed location of the driveway. Um and the driveway is actually situated at one of the best points um along Route 16 uh where it can be within this stretch uh to provide uh safe sight lines. Uh where it is

130is essentially on the apex of a curve. So a driver that would be pulling up uh to east main to leave the uh project site rather than having to look directly uh 90 degrees, they can essentially uh not turn their head as much and see further down both sides of the road. Um so the uh proposed location of the driveway meets and well exceeds uh the recommended minimums based on the speeds that we measured. Uh that was also something that was uh looked at as part of the uh peerreview process. Um and as of their most uh recent letter, the uh peer reviewer has essentially agreed with those findings. They've gone out and they've uh measured them in the field as well. So all of that is uh all existing conditions. Then as part of

131the study to assess the uh impact of the project, we essentially generated two conditions, a no build and a build condition with the no build obviously not building the project and the build building the project um to essentially um make sure that uh the project can be accommodated under existing conditions but as well as future conditions. So what we essentially did >> you say Milville? No, >> no, no. >> No. >> Get your hearing aids. >> Sorry, I'm trying to be as loud as I can. >> No, no. What did you associate with the first the first comment? It was what? >> No build. Sorry. >> Build. >> Anybody have a hearing aid? >> Maybe you got a hearing aid. >> No build. I was a little confused as well. I was like milville. >>

132Talking you talking fast. I says bill. >> A no build and a build condition. >> General. You got to go easy. Go >> ahead. I'm going to catch a crap about this later on, but go ahead. >> Yeah, >> I figured that was coming. >> Yeah. >> Um, so, so as a part of the no build condition, uh, we did, uh, two things just to essentially bump up traffic numbers, uh, from the accounts that we had additionally done. Um, so we included traffic associated with I think six or seven um, additional developments uh, that are proposed or approved within the uh, area. uh a couple of them I believe you heard um discussed earlier tonight. Um as well as just applied a general growth rate to all of the traffic that uh we um had

133counted just to essentially account for any uh unseen development as well. So that generated our no build condition. Then for our build condition, next slide please. We on that one for a while. um we estimated the vehicle trips that we expect to be generated by the project site. So once again this is for 200 units. We did not adjust down uh uh even though the product is now down to uh 80 units. So this is using the industry standard institute of transportation engineers or uh it they are the nationwide standard. they go out and collect many many especially for uh multif family residential um studies about uh trip uh trip generation and parking demands things like that. So based on uh these standards for the 200 unit uh project, we expected on an average weekday

134to generate a little under a thousand vehicle trips over the course of a 24-hour period, acknowledging that most of those are really going to be between 18 to 16 hours, right? There's not going to be a ton of people leaving or coming back at uh 2 in the morning. uh with about 75 to 80 vehicle trips during those uh peak hours, those um peak commuter periods, rush hour, if you will. So, a couple things to note about these numbers is a vehicle trip is a one-way trip. So, when we're looking at the daily number or even the uh uh peak hour numbers, a motorist that leaves in the morning and comes back uh from work counts as two trips. So 900ish vehicles, sorry, 900ish trips is 450 vehicles uh leaving or um entering. Same thing

135with the peak periods, although obviously there's more leaving in the morning and um coming back during the uh evening just to kind of give a um because uh the uh units were reduced by about uh 10%, I went through and I just uh double checked the numbers for um 180 uh units and it's about a 10% reduction in uh total overall units. So similarly we expect about a 10% reduction in trips as well. Now it goes down to a little over 800 vehicle trips over the course of an average day with about 70 during the uh peak hours. And this is one of the most common questions that I get is how can you say that the project is only going to generate this many trips during the peak hour? And what we essentially do

136is we look at the worst case scenario during the weekday morning and during the weekday uh evening. So we have hours and hours of counts at all of these intersections and we go through and we pick the worst peak hour where there's the most vehicles on the road. Similarly here we look at the uh hours that the project is generating traffic and select the uh peak uh hour for the project where the project generates the most vehicle trips. We then put those two combined on top of each other which sometimes it works out where they aren't actually generating at the same time. Sometimes maybe the roadway is by a school or something like that. that it peaks from 2 to 3, but the project generates the most traffic from 4 to 5 when when people

137are getting home, 5 to 6. But for the purposes of the study and to be conservative, we take the worst of the worst and combine those, analyze those such that we can then make the argument that this is how the intersections operate at the worst of the worst. So when there's less traffic, things are going to operate better with less delay and less vehicle queuing. >> Can I can you I just ask you, can you go back to the previous slide real quick? I have one question. >> Yes. >> On your site, would you anticipate whatever amount of units end up there, whether it's now or later, coming out of that site, they'll be taking a left to go on Route 16 to head to 495. >> So, if you majority would be doing that.

138>> So, if you can actually jump forward too. >> This all right. >> Is the proposed uh distribution that we assigned uh the vehicle trips to. This is based on census data for people living within the uh town of Milford. Um looking at where they work as well as also looking at existing travel patterns just to kind of see where are residents of Milford people going through the study area travel now. So to answer that question um how we essentially broke it down was and I'm going to get in your way here. Um we assigned essentially 15% of traffic going up towards uh Cedar Street and going up towards the uh 495 um interchange up there and further up towards uh Diller Street. >> Is that Hamilton Street you're referencing right now? >> So yes.

139So both of these because Hamilton is one way going north. We essentially assigned all the traffic coming back. They can't go down the wrong oneway street. Uh so 15% of it comes down to Cedar Street and 50% of it goes um up Hamilton A. Uh similarly uh 20 30% uh going up towards Fortune going up towards the uh interchange over there. Um with then a significant amount also going down Route 9 35% and some going towards the center of Milford. So to answer your exact question about where uh we expect people to go from the site, uh based on these numbers, it's about a 7030 split with 70% we expect to leave and um enter coming from the west and then subsequently 30% coming from the >> I I don't see coming out of that

140site once someone's in there. I don't see anybody going going down to the the light and then taking a left going to Medway Road. I see him jumping down Route 16 and either going Fortune Boulevard or the other way. >> When they see the traffic, it's going to be in traffic. >> So, this is also something as well that this was something that was uh looked at by the uh peer review as well. This wasn't something they had uh comments on as methodology, etc. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Totally. >> Totally understand. I did just want to get that as well. So, thank you. Um we then took the uh project related traffic overlaid that on top of the uh milville or no build condition uh to generate the the build condition then ran our um capacity

141uh analysis at each of these uh different intersections. And essentially what the outcome of that was the impact of the project with the addition of the trips the uh trips associated with 200 units. Um the relative material impact of the project at any of these intersections was found to be a increase in delay of 5 seconds or less and an increase in vehicle queuing of up to two vehicles. >> So once again this is acknowledging that there are existing uh uh capacity um problems out there. Now, we did not take into account any proposed improvements that uh DOT is doing, although there are two projects in the work that once again have funding. Uh the impact of the project while still a uh a uh impact for sure, it's additional uh vehicle trips on the

142road uh that that um aren't there now, it was found to be relatively minimal. So, because of that, next slide, please. Before you go, >> we we provided a >> No, just just wait. >> We provided a series of uh recommendations. Oh, actually, sorry. Next one. Uh we provided a series of um recommendations as they related to things like uh site access and circulation. Some of the things I've I've talked about, making sure we have um adequate sight lines at the driveway, which we well exceed. um as well as circulation within the site uh that have kind of helped to um define the site plan as we go forward. As Paul mentioned, the uh the uh fire department also came in and made um uh comments which we have addressed. Um and I think I

143will leave it there for now. >> Thank you. >> Understanding that. >> Yep. Well, there's going to of course there's going to be questions. I'm sure we'll come back to it. >> Mr. Chairman, just last comment before we do the presentation, turn it back. Um, so Dan did mention that the traffic study had been peer-reviewed by the town's peer reviewer, but also that the civil engineering and site plan has also been peer-reviewed. I don't know if we mentioned that u by the town's peer reviewer as well. >> Yeah, we Yeah, all the peer reviews have of course been been brought in. So, I'm going to I'm going to make a a quick comment here cuz I I actually So, on August 7th, I just had to do this because I see you people and I'm

144like, that traffic is a nightmare. And you're absolutely right. >> It is. >> So, on August on August 7th, I was sitting 10 cars back at the intersection near the site. 10 cars back. Seven light changes. >> Seven. >> It took me probably 5:25. I was sitting at that light. By the time I got through it, it was 5:32 cuz I marked it when I was driving. So, just getting past Sacred Heart Church, it was 5 It was The time was 5:41. So, I sat at that light at 5:25 and by the time I got to the church, it was 5:41. We get it. We we we get the nightmare of of the traffic. >> The blinking light, that's where the officer was waving traffic on because we have the bridge closed >> over here

145and that won't open up until October. So, we're getting slammed in that area with traffic as well. So the end result is, is it true to go from that light to get to the center of town a half an hour? >> No question. >> Day before the bridge. Yes. >> No question. No question. But this that's a state highway. >> Mass DOT controls it. We don't control that. >> When 495 came into this town, everything went boomed. And you know what's happening now? because ground is not available anymore. It's go west, my friend. Go west, my friend. So Milford, so now you got Douglas showing a population like Milford. They're getting the same growth that we had all those years. So to understand that every single one of you contribute to the traffic just like

146I do cuz I moved into this home. I built in this home. I developed in this home because they're allowed to develop their property just like every single one of you living here are here because of that development. >> You don't live in it. >> Again, whether it's a commercial development or not, they have the right to develop their property under the bylaws of the town. So saying that whether it's this site or another building, they can put a commercial building in the front, whether that be 10,000 square ft, and they'll still be able to do residential in the back. So the end result still becomes that a developer has the right to develop their property. So does a homeowner if he's got land. >> They bought this property knowing it was single, it's only

147single family. >> Again, it's commercial in the front, residential in the back. Deer Street. Deer Street. Please listen to Please understand. I'm trying to give some small education so we can answer your questions properly. Deer Street is zoned o office park. >> What's up there? Residential. And you know why? >> 40B. >> Cuz the 40B development process can skate those zones >> because of the mass housing letter that they provide. Just because if it's an apartment, it doesn't mean it has to go on residential. They can go on industrial, they can go on commercial, they can go on office park. So, so saying that, I just wanted to give you as much information as we have. Now, again, traffic is a nightmare. There's no question. Does mass do need to improve this? Yeah, I know

148that stuff is working on it. I sit at that light and it takes me forever to get back to my office. Sometimes it's 40 minutes sitting at that light getting to Main Street. >> So I So go ahead if you have a question. Go ahead. >> Yes, because we because we brought up the DOT a couple of times. I only see one project being done that's detailed now and it's to be completed by 2026. I think it's been referenced that there's two more projects, but I don't see on the website that the two projects. >> So it just to give you an idea. So where Restaurant Depot is Stone Ridge one over there is built. Stone Ridge 2 is under construction. And at the end of that is 100 units which is Stone Ridge 3.

149>> Oh, I thought he was talking about three projects with here. No, >> no. This project, the two that from previous one's on Fortune Boulevard next to the Toyota dealership which is 52 uh units and then the one next to McDonald's on 109 is 105. >> Well, Mr. Mr. Chairman, I think she's talking about the traffic project. >> Yeah. Do you mind if I just jump in here, Mr. Chairman? >> Oh, do mass DOT. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Hearing aid, Dave. >> You can use Mark. Get Mark. I'll give him yours. All right. Give him yours. >> Hold on. Let him let him answer the questions. >> I thought you referenced three DOT projects. >> Uh so there are three, Mr. Chair. Uh there are uh two

150proposed DOT projects. Um, I can read the project numbers if you'd like. >> Uh, 68045, which is rehabilitation on Route 16 from Route 109 to Beaver Street, >> right? That's design. It's going to be completed according to this in 2026. >> Correct. Yes. That's already in the tipped transportation improvement plan. Uh then there's also uh 661 which is improvement on Route 16 East Main Street at the intersection of Route 85 Cedar Street. So the westmost intersection that we had looked at >> that is in design >> that currently as of I can tell you as of January of uh this year it was in design. Uh, one thing I will say, I assume I know the website that you're on the Mass Dot projects list among DOT's many I don't want to call them failings

151per se, is keeping that uh list up to date with um everything that they're uh going on with. I would also highly recommend that if you do want to look into it more, there's the transportation uh improvement program list or the tip list >> that that uh also has a bunch of information on that. So, >> right. Well, they have two >> listed here. >> Another question. >> Please, could you tell me your name? Just tell me your name. >> Six Prairie Street. Um, I called DOT3 twice and they didn't even call me back. I called Representative Murray also. I wrote him a letter, nothing. And it was about the intersection. Okay. If this project is to be, it's to be. But we have a major problem. >> Totally agree. >> 109 and 16. And

152Scott Christopher told me twice now that DOT has diverted money that was supposed to be into that project elsewhere. How can we be assured that they're going to come and help us with what's happening >> down in that area? I mean, we get blocked in as you know you if you sit at that and Prairie Street, God bless St. Mary's Cemetery. >> Oh, yeah. because if they're going to close that gate as soon as these people come in that's sometimes the only way we can get out and I won't blame them to close the gate and I can't get anywhere. >> I mean I'm you know I'm sitting there waiting >> to get across the street and then I have to take my life in my hands because they don't yield going >> I think

153they need to redo really do a recynchronation. >> I'm not criticizing these people. I want you to know that I'm more concerned that if you're going to bring these things into town, we've got to have the state get these roads safe and easier for us to transport ourselves back and forth. >> Well, look at where stop and shop was. All those trips th those aren't even happening. And look at the traffic. >> But I must say, if I may, Daniel, >> they're going to cut through Prairie Street. They're going to cut across that shopping, the small shopping mall, and go down Prairie Street until St. Mary's closes the gate. But they're going to go through the shopping center and the five speed bumps and go up that way. >> I'm I do it >> and

154I'm sure they'll learn to do it because it's really just very difficult to keep >> you done. Thank you. >> I was essentially done. I will just say one thing as it relates to this just because it just got brought up. Um let us also reach out to DOT see if we can get any additional information on any of their proposed projects. Maybe they'll give a traffic engineer a little more hint as to maybe something's coming for the Route 16, Route 109 intersection, something like that. So, let's let us do that for the next meeting and then I can come back and I can report on. >> Yeah, that way there may the more information we can we can provide the better I think we will be. >> You raise your hand, please. Ma'am, stand

155up your name, please. >> Uh, it's Jan Foster from Hamilton A. I've lived there for 39 years and I'm the next to the last house at the end. These folks live across >> before the cemetery. >> The cemetery is like Yeah. The last house which is the cab >> on the house before it. Okay. We moved in. It was a two-lane street. It was a slow street. >> It became the oneway street with the two stop signs. Come sit in my yard and watch the number of people now that go the wrong way straight through the stop signs all the way to the other end. There's no sidewalks on any of those. go the opposite way. >> They go the wrong way all the time. >> All the time. Including the house next to us

156when they have meetings. They go the wrong way when they leave. The Uber drivers go the wrong way. There's no sidewalks. There's families with children that are walking their dogs, riding the streets, none of it. So, you want to put 15% of this traffic going down a residential neighborhood with no sidewalks. I've come home, I work at Cornerstone. I've come home and go to turn a right onto Hamilton and had to pull out of the way because somebody was coming the wrong way. >> Have you Have you mentioned the Milton people? >> Oh, we've called the Mil police. Have >> you called the police on Maple Street, but they can't be there all the time and they go completely the wrong way all the way up the street. >> That's enforcement. >> And you've got

157the car dealership disloading cars with big trucks parked in there. How are you going to have them go up and down that street >> with them? Yeah. >> And we have a state trooper that lives there. >> Yeah. >> Hire in the front and they still go up the street. >> It's horrible. >> Have you Have you called the police department to try and get enforcement done? >> We've and maybe maybe even those maybe even those road bumps, you know, the road stand. >> That's what I said. >> They don't see the stop sign. I mean, there's plenty of signage coming in from Ceda >> um >> signs, but they >> Let me let me follow up with that. Um, >> I'll talk to the highway to keep you. >> Yeah. Huh. You didn't know

158I had it. We did. >> Wow. >> Your name, please. Do >> you mind if I >> um, so I live on Prairie Street. I'm just confused where the utilities are supposed to go. There was brief mention about they're supposed >> Well, the utilities are all coming in >> from Route 16 with the exception of the water being connected. This the the water department likes to loop the water on sites. So, it's just they're going to the Prairie Street for the to tie in the water >> where >> because they have to loop it. >> Where's the X? Oh, okay. So, they're not going to actually cut through onto Prairie Street. >> There's no exit coming into Prairie Street. Okay. >> It's the water. >> They have to loop the water on the site. The

159water company likes everything looped. >> And another concern is lighting. So that's out behind me is where this big >> complex is going to be. All the lighting at night. What am I? It's going to look like an airport. >> Yeah, there there's going there's a there's a lighting bylaw first of all that they have to conform to part of their proposal is with lighting. We need to get a better identification for you on how that lighting is handled within the site that it's not impeding over to your area. Correct. >> And sometimes we we and again they may not like my comment. Sometimes you can do what's called those elevated shrub beds where you plant trees >> 4 feet in an elevated and you have evites so it kind of blocks the abuters all

160the way around. So you don't really it's just better protection along with fencing. But wooden fence I never agree with. But but those are the comments we want us to hear and how we're going to do that. So that is a good question. And also Hamilton Street, I am going to make a couple of calls on that. Maybe we need to add some road slow down BMS there. >> Usually there's a cop on Naples >> and a lot of times they'll sit there. But again, like Jam says, they can't be there all day. >> No, I I got it. So let me kind of work on that in the meantime. You have another question? >> I do. So I know that we beat it to death, but still the traffic being a concern. Absolutely. >>

161There's not going to be any emergency vehicle access. So, what if there's a fire back there? >> There's no >> Oh, there's this. Yeah, there's there's vehicles part of their site plan approval is fire fire apparatus, all of that stuff. We have a we have it from the fire chief already. He's already reviewed everything >> and he's we made some made modifications to make him happy as well. >> So, there's got to be no separate entrance for emergency vehicles going back to whatsoever. No, they they have to that's why it's wide enough to get through there that all the apparatus can move around through the site and get to every site. >> Okay. >> Especially the new ladder truck because that's got a long that's got a long um width. So, we have to make

162he has to make sure that he can make all his moves. We had we did that on every single one of them to make sure that those trucks can get in and moize. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Hi. Um my name is Sandy McCormack. My husband and I live on four Pats Lane. >> We are very close to this proposed building. >> Can you bring the site the >> We're probably the closest property. So I have a lot of concern going. >> I need the GIS model, please. The GIS overview. >> Okay. Can you show me where you are? >> Um I can figure out this. So, um, this is me right here. >> Okay. >> Right here. >> What number is that? >> Number four. >> Four. >> Okay. So, we're very close. And I

163I understand you're putting a fence up. A six foot fence doesn't seem very high to me. >> Well, what what my comment was to him was we need to take a look at having some elevated uh beds back there, maybe 4t high, and then have a vites on top of them. >> Okay. So I that's why we're having these discussions to see what we can do to improve certain situations. >> I also I also have a concern I haven't heard the mention of trash pick up how you >> they're all contained on site. They have dumpsters on site. That's all. >> So dumpsters. So where are the dumpsters right near you? >> Compactor right here. >> And and compactors. >> Okay. Right next >> that's all and that'll all that's all fenced in by the

164way. They have to fence those in. >> Yeah. in an enclosure. >> So, how how far is the distance from my property to where your property where your building is? I see the small >> That's just parking. >> That's parking. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> It's not the building's further up. >> Okay. So, I have the same concerns as my neighbor about the lights, the lighting. Yeah. >> But I'm just wondering how how far is this area to my property line, >> your property to my property? >> It'll be scaled. Actually, that's probably >> the red line. >> There's the building. >> What is the scale? This is 1 in is 40 ft. >> 1 in is 40 ft. or 40 to 90. >> You're about I I just did it rough. Will these guys

165can give you an engineer? What is it? 120 ft. >> I think she's asking from the >> the corner of the building. >> No, she property line to the parking >> to the parking. >> Well, I thought you said to the corner of the building. I no I didn't realize that was parking right there. So I'm guessing to the parking to their property to my property their property line to >> Yeah, there's no parking. It's actually circular. Is there like is there parking space there and parking corner there? Then there's a retaining wall that goes through here and some >> Okay. >> I want to say it's probably around 10 ft or so, but I got a reduced copy here. So it's kind of hard for me to >> So we're showing a retaining wall

166and then we're showing the fence to the left of the retaining wall in the red outline. >> We'll get in touch with you. Yes, please do. Please do because again I found out about this from a neighbor. >> Mr. Chairman, if I if you could if this if you have this electronically, which I know you do, if you could send that to me tomorrow electronically, it make it easier to put it up in the town's website where it'll be available to everybody. >> Also, I have just one other question there in I've walked into that property because it's right on my line. There's a lot of huge boulders in there that >> I don't even call them boulders. They're enorm how ledge and so that all have to be Milford is Rock City. So, >>

167right, >> what what they do is if there's any form of they can split >> with a hammer or if there's any form of blasting that they have to do, they have to do sites assessments to your property. >> They hammer it and then they and they do a seismograph as well. So, that's done pre >> and post. >> Okay. >> Before and after. What happens if >> Yeah, there's also all types of notice given. >> Yeah. I mean, >> my sister lived by a property that was blasted and she had major damage. I mean, I I know. >> Yeah. How long ago? >> I'd like to know about that. >> I'd like you to come talk to me. >> Yeah. Techn technology today. You You're going to get notified. You'll have plenty of time.

168Um if you before you leave, if you give Melissa your contact information, email, and phone number so we can coordinate that. Okay. >> Yeah. Anybody that wants to talk to us, just >> Yeah. Go to Melissa because they'll they'll make themselves available. I had a question over here first. Hold on. >> Yes. >> I'm Tammy Davis. I live on the corner of Gillan in East Charles and I'm very concerned regarding the flooding. The the water in that area is so high in the wind. >> Yeah, the water table's high over there. That's why you're seeing a lot of split entry homes. >> Homes are flooded. The the this is all so well again you're in a high water table, >> right? >> It's not because of this. >> Yes. into my own. They're self-containing everything

169on their own site and draining it on from their site >> to where to where >> we just went through this >> into the drain that it >> comes right it comes right down through it's away from you >> saturated and bubbling like a >> well again this is the existing wetlands that are on the site I am sure some of the houses that were built over there probably were built on wetlands at one point >> why' you build them >> but Still, nobody's maintaining the catch basins where the water runs through. Nobody owns the property. >> They they agreed earlier that they will >> they're going to maintain all of this control. St. Mary cemetery. >> This is part of St. Mary's Cemetery is not part of their site, >> right? They're going to

170>> But that's where that Brookall comes through. And then it also comes from all the runoff from the >> But St. Mary's is not part of their site >> or that runoff. They're going to control and take care of everything on their site that may actually help you if it's if some of that water is going on their site. >> It is. >> Yes, ma'am. >> I'd love to get up because I'd love to point out where my house is. >> I'm Anna. So, I'm the one that probably started all >> your last name. >> Ours. And I live right here. >> Yeah. I I went to visit you a couple of times. >> You weren't on the camera. I didn't see you. probably got lost with the letter over here with the woodchucks and

171the sal. >> Um, so beautiful parking lot. Love it. So, how far away would this be and how high would be the wall? >> You have some big pines over there. >> I do. Can you remind me? I think in shallow roots west city they still do the replacement DBH right when you remove trees you have to replace brush height and caliper >> well every every town's different so we we have all the >> 2in caliber you're going to cut it and I don't think the six foot arm so I do this too >> so if I have a ledge you know a little wall and a sixoot dinky fence and this little burm I'm still going to see >> Mhm. >> this from my nice kitchen. >> Me, too. >> Okay. >> Same way.

172>> You're going to see you're going to see any development that's going to be in there. So, >> Oh, yeah. >> Just like the where you live was developed and that's why you're there because someone built on that site. You will see you will see something there that's being developed. >> Single family. >> Key is it's all single family. >> Again, this is a 40B application that we're dealing with. So, we're trying to deal with that. >> They can and they can go in any zone. They can go in any zone. >> We do need to hear this. >> We have to hear the hearing. >> We have to hear it. >> I'm not seeing right now one. >> You have to worry about one discussion, please. And they get everything they want. >> Been

173here. to address your comment. This retaining wall is going to average anywhere from 3 to 5 ft grade. >> Okay. >> And then the parking lot here, this corner is about 12 to 13 ft and that one there is about 5 to six. Again, I'm just using reduced plan. So, it's kind of hard to to scale it, but I can get those numbers for the next meeting and stuff like that. >> Is there going to be any utilities coming through my driveway? >> Yes, just a water line connection per the water department's request. We're tying in a water line to tie it to the line. So 3:15 with a hammer is going to be in my driveway. So just let me know if >> Wait a minute. Now what about the driveway? The our driveway

174gets messed up. Who buys us a new driveway? >> I'll make a pot of coffee for the border. >> It's on their property. >> Yeah, we're not doing any work on anybody's driveway. >> They're not doing any work on someone's driveway. >> I have a utility agent that's the right of my driveway. >> The water line. >> You don't again. They're on their own property. So, this green strip is my next to my driveway. >> Okay. >> So, but it's not on your property. >> This is my garage. >> This is a GI. By the way, this is an aerial overlay. So, it's >> Well, come down. >> Approximate. Come down. >> I I was there. >> Come on down. >> I I I was there. I was there. I went and tried to see

175it twice >> after seven six months. This has been on the board. >> This hasn't hasn't been six months. >> So, regardless, you're going to make this building. You're going to put a machine here. You're going to hammer all this out. So, you're going to have a machine, an excavator between Marty's kitchen, the fence, and my driveway. >> It's going to be on their property. >> Absolutely. >> How wide is that? >> 20 ft, they said. >> Okay. So, let's just do this real quick. Let's pull it up for everyone who looks up nine prairie street. >> This is my house. >> Yeah, >> that's my driveway. >> Yeah, >> there's the strip that they're talking about. >> Okay, >> it's their strip. So they're allowed to just >> do whatever they It's a utility.

176It's their land. Do what you want. >> You could do the same thing if you owned it. >> It's It's a It's >> okay. >> On a 20 foot wide strip >> when they hit the roo. >> It's just to bring a water line and a 20 foot. >> Oh, just a water line. Just a tree. It's just my driveway. >> It's a water line. It's not your >> Come to your house and we'll hammer next to your house. Is that okay? >> I've been hammering next to my house for 6 months. >> No, I have. >> Yeah, you have. Okay, let's go. >> Next question. Yes, ma'am. >> My name is Jana Marshall and I live over here. Excuse me. >> This is me. All this. >> Mhm. >> My question is, you're saying

177that the retaining wall over here is going to be 5 ft. How much is the retaining wall over here in the back of the lady that lives on Psy's lane? And over here, how high is that retaining wall? Tell me it's going to be at least 60 ft. >> 6t. >> We're going to y'all land from Route 16. If you're going to go straight, you have to fill from where you have >> here is 10 ft tall. >> Well, you going downhill. You're not going straight across >> from 16. >> Yeah. >> Build up, right? >> Yeah, I know. >> So, we're 10 feet high back now. >> From the ground in the woods, you're going up 10 ft. >> Yes. Bottom of the wall will be 275. Top of the wall is 284. So,

178that's 9.7. >> I don't believe it. >> I just don't believe it. >> I don't believe it. your land. Now you have this land that's even Route 16. A lot was filled in. Here's a lady at Paty's Lane. Here's the other lady next to her. Now you have to build up all this and then put up a wall. You're not going to make that land even. It's more than 10 ft. More than 10 ft. You want to come and walk it with me? >> No, you don't have to. >> Why? Because you plate. Then why do you have to have the trash over here next to the neighbors? Why don't you put the trash over here next to uh Fafford's land next to >> and then explain to me please again please I'm I'm trying

179to understand you have these containers that are supposed to gather the runoff water and and it's going to seep into the ground and then the excess you said 10 gallons but you know it's going to be a lot more than that going right here into the swamp. Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And then this swamp now has to build up higher to get over. You called it a something head, but I call it a dyke. >> Okay. >> What's it called? >> I call it a concrete head wall. That's why I said >> concrete head wall. So the now the water has to build up in here higher than the head wall to get over and go under Route 16 and go wherever it goes. So you're not saying that this is not going

180to build up higher. We are not going to have more water. You know, we're all septic system down here. We don't have town storage. What's going to happen to us? >> The the again the the engineering aspect is designed and the town planner is actually reviews and approves all this to make sure >> that everything that's on that site stays on that site and is drained properly. But I have a problem. That's not my job. I'm calling you. >> That's not my job. >> Who am I calling? >> You contact the town engineer. >> Who's the town engineer? They're here now. >> Elizabeth by Nini. >> Yes. >> My nini. That guy that was down there. >> No, that was John. >> Elizabeth by Nini. >> Elizabeth. >> He's an engineer in the town engineer.

181>> Well, we'll have to follow her then. >> No. And and I I would I would definitely if you need to do that, that's fine. These people are happy to meet with you as well. >> Thank you. And anybody else? >> Yes, sir. >> Guy smiling because he thought he was going to be more. >> I'm happy to I guess pay for the pure viewers to come in and answer questions. >> Yeah. Again, if they need more additional meeting, we can certainly have >> to meet with anybody. >> Absolutely. And they'll meet they'll make arrangements to meet you at your site to just to kind of walk through that for you. They're happy to do that. >> Next question. Yes, Michael. >> Mr. Chairman, uh, is there any reason, so since the buildings, one building's

182been cut down to three levels rather than four, we saw that actual picture of one of the buildings, it's pretty imposing. Is there any reason why that threestory building couldn't be the one on the far left and leave the fourstory out towards the street? >> Anything's possible. minimize the impact uh from the people on Prairie Street having to look at that building or from Paty's Lane having to see that building versus versus makes keeping that a four-story building. That's the one closest to to the neighbors. >> We actually asked you >> was there a strategic reason why that was done that way? >> So h happy to take a look at that. I mean so the change was done when we went from the 200 unit plan to the 180 unit plan and no I

183mean look it could be revised on which building went down in height. We felt like given that building was up on a retaining wall over East Main Street, that made sense. But yeah, happy to take another look at that. >> And and now that we have some some questions, >> we have some some people that are involved here and and there's a couple of things that that it's bringing some things to light for me, too, because I'm listening to what they're saying, but I also want you guys to take a look at it. Um, I'd like to take a look at that dumpster location and see if that can be rearranged and maybe avoid um that corner uh close to the residence. I'd like this woman's answer concerning the elevations and to making sure everybody's

184worried about getting additional water. Listen, the groundwater in that area is high. That's why you see a lot of flood entry houses because it's the ground water is high and I've lived with that as well. uh myself. So I I get it and I clearly don't want more water being added to an area that's already got a high water table. In addition to that, that was my comment that Mr. Sver just made concerning that that resident side of those buildings, maybe getting a floor off of that, not four, but three. Um, I don't know if you have an awful lot of room moving that dumpster location in that parking area, >> but we're happy to >> it may be better off to do four stories in the front and do a couple of three stories

185in the back over there. It's closer. Again, I don't know what's going to happen here, but I'm just >> another recommendation too. Something for kids, shelter for the kids waiting waiting for the bus. >> There we go. Yeah, I I know there's there's and by the past ones that we've done um if we can get a cross-section specifically for this woman's um comfort. If we can get a cross-section of the neighbors area on that whole corner and in the back to give us a cross-section of their base lawn and then high that high high any walls are over there. So they've got a visual effect of what what that's going to be next to them >> if that's would be possible. And I'm talking from all the way down to um Mrs. P's property. Is

186there any elevation change there >> from Prairie Street? >> Yeah. >> Oh, that was the retaining wall. That was >> 3 to five. Yeah. I'd like to see anybody on that side if you can get a cross-section just as so they when they're standing in the yard, I want to see what they're going to see. Y >> because I think it's visual. It's important for them. I I want to see that. I don't want any surprises and all of a sudden and that's why I'm glad she brought that up. question right there. No, right behind you. >> Yes, sir. Yeah. >> Behind you. Okay. >> Sorry. I'm Sean McC. >> All right. Go ahead. All right. Stand up. >> All right. just my my concern is um sorry I'm I'm on for Paty's Lane also

187with my wife Sandy but you know we can see all our neighbors on Prairie Street that high water table exists as is we understand right beside us is a pond that gathers water um all in the summertime it's it dries out but all year long it gathers water so a pond >> like it's just a little groove you know a little surface water >> surface water just goes into >> because it goes into a low area Yes. That need to be filled. >> Well, you know, I don't know what it it was what it was when when we bought the property. So, >> we're 5 years. >> Yeah. So, we're 5 years. >> Standing considered legal wetland. >> Um I would imagine it is. Yeah. I would imagine it's wetlands. Yeah. But what what the

188concern is I I understand um Prairie Street all along. I understand the high water table, etc. Obviously the concerns of of of all those neighbors is that no matter what guarantees you might give is there are you going to make sure water doesn't run down and you know intensify a problem that's already there. So you know all the way around it's it's just some kind of guarantee that you need to give them. >> I don't think they can give you any guarantee. >> Yeah. So there in there in there would be an objection itself. And again, the town engineer, the town engineer is also involved in this cuz she's she's the one that has to dissect everything. >> There'll be conditions in the decision that address that very very specifically, very as we have in

189all these decisions, very specific conditions that just about guarantee it. >> Yeah. >> So, will the town stand behind it if if they do? >> I'd rather be the town will be there to enforce the conditions if there's a problem. Of course. >> Okay. >> All right. Get up >> quick. >> Sorry about that. All right, >> that's okay. I'm Linda Katanzeriti. I actually live on Treddle Drive, but a lot of the traffic with these developments that are happening is going to affect the the 495 um area. We got the slide park. We got this development. We have >> When was when was Turtle Drive built? When you were there? When was >> you're part of a development in Turtle Drive, right? >> Yeah. >> So, you benefited. So, someone developed your land for you

190to be there. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I just wanted to let you know because, you know, unless you live down that area or travel it frequently, you might not know this. And I know it's a state road, but I just want you to know that what happens is when, and I might have my direction wrong, but going east on 109, like towards Treddle, when you're going 495 north, >> there's only a little section that the cars can go to go on. So, it end up at the street >> to the left lane. And it's getting Yeah. And it's getting worse. And so when you're on like you have to go to the right and then go to the left and believe it or not people beep at you when you're turning into

191trouble and to Victor to drive. They get mad because they have to stop and they beep at you. But I just wanted you to know and be aware that that's an issue. Now I don't know if there's anything >> that's all mass dot. >> I know it is. And I didn't know if there's anything in the queue for that area to be reworked because this is going to affect it. All these things down here are going to affect us down on 109. I just wanted you to be aware of that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Go ahead. >> Um Mariano O' Sullivan. I'm also in a butter. I live at 11 page shape and I'm also a school teacher. I've been teaching in Milford public schools. This is my 20th year. Um I'm curious to

192know the studies that have been done. Have there been you're talking two and threebedroom apartments? Now we're talking families. Has there been a study done on the amount of children that are now going to inhibit our over already overcrowded? We have teachers going from >> classroom to classroom if there was a study done and what that looks like for our schools. >> Thank you. >> So we we when stone stone ridge was done there was 20 was it 62 >> stone one? Yeah. >> 261. I think the total >> all grades I think there was like between 19 and 22 >> and that was 260 units. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> I can vouch for that. >> Wow. >> I think frankly I'm seeing all seeing all the for rent signs out here. I I

193think populations went down. >> I can vouch for you on that one because I've been working the job site. I work for the town um on Stone Ridge and I've been I can see the kids getting on and off the bus when I'm so Yeah. >> And I don't like the buses need to get in there. >> Yeah. So the parents are down on that button. I I can vouch for you. >> Oh, we have a we have a plan for that when the last phase gets completed. A lot of >> ideas for the kids that stand right there at that intersection. >> Yeah, we're trying to get get everybody to do the huts. Yeah, there there is a >> but you know what it is. But but it doesn't matter if you put the

194huts there because the parents are going to be in the cars next to them anyway. >> And that's what today's society gives us. >> Yep. >> They stand I'm a grandfather. I I ain't making them sit in the lot. They'll stand on the car and wait till the bus comes. >> The buses used to come down the streets and then when the kids got older, we were standing at that intersection. >> Really? >> Yes. >> They still do. >> The bus doesn't go down there. >> No. No. You have to go down the end of 10916 and you have to stand there. >> So if you let your kids go alone and some trucker's going down 495, he's >> I I don't like that. >> Been that way for years. >> And yes, we've talked

195to the police and yes, we've talked to community use about it through the years and there was never any resolution about it. >> Excuse because they can't turn around. >> I'm the community use director and we do not do transportation. That's separate through Milford Public Schools. Community use is not affiliated with >> so you're going to have all those kids at the time. It wasn't used. >> Correct. >> That was a dual role at that point in time and it's not anymore. Milford public schools now. >> Yes. I'm just saying there was never any resolution with AP. >> So they have they crossed in three lanes down there. >> No, they're standing at where Enterprise is way over the bus. >> And it's been that way since my kids who are now the oldest is

19634. Oh boy. >> Been that way for 30 something years. >> And the other kids, the older kids, they have to go down a free street, right? Yeah. >> Well, that's the bus transportation. Who's the director and all that? Milford. >> Lauren Smith. That's the one you're going to contact. >> But that >> not to go off. >> She does the roots though, right? >> No, the roots are designed by the bus company that built the public school uses, which is >> Okay. Go. >> They changed that. >> Yes. >> Um, I have another question. Has there been any studies into the environment? >> The animals. >> Oh yeah. They have to check for vertal pools. They have to check for spotted turtles. All the wetlands have been flagged. >> Just today I saw the

197most beautiful falcons in there. I saw hawks. I saw I hear turtles every night. >> Yeah, they have. >> We have coyotes. We have turkeys. What does anybody think of? >> No be no bears. No bears. >> Probably. I haven't seen them yet. haven't seen any bears, but so there has been studies to >> Yeah, they have to they have to go through all of that. The state actually even has to finish this up and continue it, but go ahead. >> My name is Joe. I live on Congress. So, I want to go back to our favorite traffic guide. Uh the the traffic study that you did uh one slide you have like percentage, right? And my understanding if something has to add add up to 100% but yours is like 115. I don't know

198what's up with that slide. And then my second question is how accurate are you guys the numbers like I have to go through that you know road that traffic light every single day 5 days a week. You guys going to come up with some numbers and you guys want to okay byebye 5 seconds and then I'm going to live with this right? You guys want to be gone? So I want to know how accurate are you guys? Do you guys want to go back like have you guys have done any project that you did that prediction and then you got >> forward three. >> I want to know the accuracy of your numbers. >> Thank you. >> So I'll answer the first question here. If you just sum all of these up, they do add

199up to 115. But these are two-way arrows, so it's both entering and exiting traffic along that road. these two because this is a one-way street going this way despite how we've heard some people use it. Um this is 15% of exiting traffic and then 15% of entering traffic over here. So that's why if you sum everything it adds up to 115 but the total exiting and uh entering traffic >> and the town's traffic consultant has also verified this information because we have an independent traffic consultant >> and all those reports are up online on the town's website. By the way the everything's been submitted including the peerreview consultants are all on the town's website easy to access the town's website the zoning board of appeals and they're right there. Michael, >> that is one thing

200I find hard to believe on that traffic study is that the estimate is coming out, as you talked about earlier, taking a right onto 16 and then a left onto 109 and that's where the majority of traffic's going to go. There's no way that's going to happen. They're going to take the left out and they're going to go >> once once they learn. Yeah. >> They'll take the I don't know how many traffic studies study, peer reviewed or not, could come up with that data. That just seems so valuable. >> I was at >> that's it's just ridiculous. Anybody that's been in Milford would know that they would never go that way. >> I was actually going to I'm sorry to jump back. There was a a second uh part of that question as well,

201and it's how accurate kind of are the traffic counts within the traffic studies. So, we did go out and we counted over the course of either a 48 hour period or during the peak periods as well. We actually went out and we set up cameras and we counted all of the cars. So the basis of what the traffic study is essentially based on is uh actual counts that were conducted in the field. So >> actual counts not necessarily. >> My my question is you did that okay before this is like a pre-built right do you do post build analysis and to come back to see oh okay so we are off by 10% 50% like do you did any of that in previous project? So sometimes we do do it's uh called uh post occupancy

202traffic monitoring essentially uh that is something that we have done in the past for uh projects generally it's for >> we've done that on stain stone ridge we've done a uh once they hit that 80% I think they have to do they did a post study as well >> so how accurate on that particular one like before and after right >> well we're going on year two we don't know yet >> okay >> that I can't speak to we didn't do that one You never know, right? >> We didn't do that specific the stone bridge or what was being talked about. We >> But in your experience, how accurate your number >> uh generally so you heard me probably say it a couple times within the uh presentation is conservative. Really the point of the

203traffic study and the kind of general consensus of the methodology is to be conservative. I don't want to say to a fault, but where possible air on the conservative side. So that kind of accounts for everything as well. That accounts for when we adjust numbers up to account for future traffic growth. That also applies to trip generation statistics as well. So the data sites that uh uh the IT goes out and actually um collects those are all kind of then compiled in. Um then as we go through and we do all of this analysis we try to be conservative where possible. So that generally results in and it does kind of change depending on the use. Um we and most traffic engineers as well it's not just us um do generally do a good job

204of being conservative of either uh overestimating the amount of traffic that's expected to be on the road in the future or that's being generated by any given project. You're pretty confident of course. >> Sounds like >> May I ask a follow-up question then if you don't mind because my question is related please. >> Um Joe the same uh household on Congress. One one slide down please. Actually I want you to uh go to the uh the the table where you show it's only going to be 58 people right there. Right there. Um how many people can your complex house? Please answer my question. You have 1080 unit and now how many of um people are going to be living there? >> That I don't know. I'm a traffic engineer. I'm not a housing. >> So

205I say three * 180 to a house or four times 180. >> It's a mix of it's a mix of one twos and threes. So it's certainly lower number than three. >> Right. So, are you saying that every weekday morning at peak hour there is only going to be 58 cars leaving your unit out of 180 units? That's my question because I don't really uh you saying that there are so many unemployed people are going to be living there. It doesn't make sense to me. Um so please uh you know ensure ensure the uh integrity of this data and then coming back also only uh 48 cars entering the contacts uh at the peak hour and you have 180 units when four three times or four times. So it doesn't make sense if they are

206employed. >> So uh this is something that I tried to address as a part of the presentation. I apologize if I didn't do a great job on it. I will try to do that now. So going back to what I was talking about where we look at the worst case scenario. So these are the peak hours. >> So these so this is the one 60inut period where the project generates the most vehicle traffic. So just for the purposes of this we'll say that during the morning we'll call it 7 to 8 uh a.m. where on an average weekday we expect a total of and once again these are the 200 uh unit trips. It's like 70 total vehicle trips for 180 units um during that peak uh hour. Now, what that means is that from

2076 to 7 or from 8 to 9, there could be as many as 75 vehicle trips that either enter or exit the project site. This is not the total number of vehicles that enter or exit on any given morning. This is just the 160 minute period where the most do. Can I just say one thing? I'm a visiting nurse for the town of Hopedale, Upton, and Hopington. And can I just tell you that those new developments in Hopkin are multigenerational family? They may be one or two bedrooms, but they've got multigenerations living in those those buildings. So, how do we make sure that we don't have the same circumstances? >> OC, we have the occupancy bylaw. How are they getting >> there's an occupancy bylaw and then and that has to go into our lease.

208You so when we provide a lease to a resident, it has the by, you know, has the the maximum. >> Have they tried with these other units maybe jamming in four or five people? Yeah. And they got thrown out. >> I don't think they anticipated the amount of people that were going to actually live in those two and threebedroom apartments and now they're having to build all new schools and everything else. >> We're we're aware of all that. >> Yes, sir. Phillips East Charles Street and Milford. I'm wondering if they have done any type of a study. I'm assuming this complex is in and out from Route 16. Is that correct? >> Have they done any type of study of traffic in Milford and knowing where that entrance is and exit? How many minutes in

209the course of daylight hours that there's straight traffic right in front of that intersection where either they're coming out or the traffic's going and somebody's got a gift. >> I told you how long it took me on it. >> But I'm just saying have you done any study on it daylight hours on the amount of traffic that would be backed up in front of your entrance to your property? So, what we did as a part of the traffic study, if you can pick one of the slides that shows the roads, um what we did as part of the traffic study was we analyzed a couple different factors at these study area uh intersections. One of them being vehicle queuing. So, it's essentially what you're asking about there where say that our project site is here.

210We looked at the queueing we expect along the westbound approach to this intersection. Um, so that was done as a part of the traffic study. >> Now, these studies, is this just numbers you put together? But you have somebody there or a machine there that's monitoring actual action, not just numbers that you put together. >> So, >> I mean, it's just like when they put the strip in the road, they know how many cars go by. I mean, >> I mean, these studies, they just numbers that come out of wherever. >> So, this is actual knowledge. So the basis of all of this was done on actual counts that were conducted in the field. So generally they use cameras now rather than the tubes. Um but we went out and we set up cameras and

211then counted the actual cars that were observed either over the course of a 48 hour period on Route 16 or during the peak periods at the intersection >> that are stationary standing still in front of that driveway. So >> that's what that's what I'm wondering if you have how many minutes do you have that in the course of daylight hours that that would happen >> all day >> that was not necessarily something that we looked at as a part of the study but vehicles would theoretically be queuing on that approach >> it's going to happen just so you know and I think >> just so I know what sorry >> it's going to happen just so you know >> it happens now and it will continue to happen with the addition of the project there

212are things that happen along these roads that are independent of the project and will continue to happen >> after the construction of the project. >> Less than a half a mile down the road, two main intersections merge into one. And usually it's a fight, not a merge. >> All right. Thank you for your >> Yeah. I think what we're going to do, we're going to continue this hearing till the October >> we nth. >> Huh? >> The nth. Yeah. >> Yeah. The nth. Yeah, we want to do that. >> All right, so there's not going to be a public reminder, so please write it down. It will be October 9th. >> Want to continue this? Please come back. In the meantime, if anybody wants to have discussions or go on site with some of these,

213please make sure Melissa has your contact information and email so we can answer any of those further questions for you. >> I same time 4. >> Same time. Yeah, 6:00. Well, it'll be after the hearing >> published online. >> And please go to our website because everything that's here is on there as well. >> Before you adjourn, Dave, this is very important. There's six of you here. You're starting over again. So, five of you are going to sit on this. Now, uh we sort of need to obviously the four regular members. So, you got the two alternates. Uh so, you got to choose one of the alternates or they have to self- select. So there's a five member panel that'll start now going forward. >> I'm more I'm more concerned about >> going to be

214able [Music] 's already on the other one. >> Well, we're talking about this one now. You started You started fresh tonight. You started all over again. >> We didn't. >> It wasn't a brand new. >> Yes, it was. Legally, it was in every respect. That's why we're here. >> The same. I don't know. >> We need a motion to adjourn. motion said that you were going to have >> all those in favor >> an emergency. >> Thank you everyone. >> Department on Prairie Street if they if they couldn't get through the main entrance. Is that