001[Music] Good evening. Welcome to the Milford Planning Board of Tuesday, September 2nd. Welcome to Welcome September. Uh first uh thing is the minutes of the last meeting. >> Make a motion to accept the meeting >> As amended. Yes, >> we'll second that. moved and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? I >> opposed. >> I'm going to abstain. >> Uh four in favor, one abstension. >> Okay. We have a uh >> can't come. >> We're going to have a public hearing, but we're >> wait two minutes. >> Well, we're going to wait uh thing. Let's go on. Uh, you can doesn't do it cuz they're withdrawing it anyways. >> You can Yeah, you don't have to wait till 702 to withdraw it. >> That's true. >> True. We do >> that. I'd
002go with that, too. >> Okay. I hear a motion. Uh, >> well, there was a motion by the applicant to withdraw without prejudice. I I make a request for that. I would uh make a motion that we allow them to withdraw without prejudice. >> Second. been moved in a second and we allow him to draw the motion without prejudice. Any further discussion? >> Good thing is Martha, you all right to make a second even though you weren't part of the public hearing? >> True. >> Yes. Yes. Make sure it's a whole different thing. Yes. Good question though, Chris. >> Want to make sure. >> All those in favor? Unanimous of five. Okay. We got no 81 PS. Uh, we got a amended site plan for 189 193 East Main Street. Anybody here for? >> Yes.
003>> Right up there. This is a uh it's a waiver of sight plan for ancillary use at an existing car wash. >> Not a waiver. Well, >> if that's what Larry wrote, I'm sorry, but that's not what it is. It's an amended site plan. >> That's curious. >> Amended site plan. Go ahead, sir. >> Good evening. Uh the we're not uh proposing to make any changes to the structure in any way. Um the end of our tunnel car wash uh was being used for detailing services a few years ago. >> Pardon me, sir. I apologize. Can I have your name? And >> Mark Morganelli. >> Thank you. >> The owners at Easyway Car Wash. >> Thank you. >> So, we um we want to take the area that was being used for detailing services, which
004we no longer do. Uh and we want to create a dog wash. >> Oh. >> So, folks can pull in and wheel their dog up the ramp and wash and dry. And we'd like to do that. >> We we have the parking for it. What we want to do is put in one dog wash station initially. Um we have a waiting area already there which was being used for the detailing services. Anyway, um >> I thought they were I thought it was showing adding or moving parking spaces. >> The are current good point. There are parking spaces there right now which the which employees use who are working in the tunnel. Mhm. >> There's probably four of them there. They can be put elsewhere. We have other parking spaces around the property. So, we would
005have them move elsewhere to the other side of the office building there and uh we would use that dedicated for the dog wash. >> So, >> that being said, do we have sounds like there are parking spaces move moving? >> There's Yeah, if you look, >> but I can't you don't have the site plan. >> No site plan. That's what I was That's what I was just going to say cuz >> Let me go grab the >> It was our understanding that John Federico was going to be here for the meeting. >> It was our understanding that John Federico was going to be here for the meeting tonight. >> We met with Gary and Helen. >> He created a site plan. He he seemed to think everything would be >> amenable. And it may be
006I if I I my my question more was geared to at the end of the day I want to make sure that what the plan is that we have is is is going to show what you're going to have once you do this so that we have a plan on file. That's >> so Mr. Chair if I may. Um I'm confused because it almost does sound like a waiver of site plan review. Are they asking that we not conduct the review? >> Sure. because that actually seems to be an appropriate request. >> Not if they're not parking spaces. >> Oh, okay. Okay. I'm >> that was why I amendment to the site. >> That's why that's why I'm saying it was an amendment. If if they're not moving if they didn't need to move anything
007or show anything differently, then it would change of use. It could have just been a >> um >> they did fill out a waiver application. The waiver and the amended site plan are the same form. >> Correct. I understand. >> Which we should potentially you might want to fix, >> rethink that. >> Not you personally, but the office. >> You can help me understand because I'm new to the game. What does that mean? What does that mean? >> So um so there's um a waiver of site plan review would mean that you're not making any changes to the site itself. >> Okay. or the building like um or the changes are so insignificant that it doesn't warrant our review. >> Yeah. >> Which I can't think of a good example what that might be. >>
008They wouldn't come back to us if that were the case. Believe me, we wouldn't see. >> Um so it it would just um it would prevent you from having to pay for a site plan basically. Got it. Got it. Um, and an amended site plan is when you have a site plan that is is changing in a you know relatively small way, which is the case here. Um, and then um just a regular site plan review would be generally if you have a raw piece of land and you're developing it. >> Understand? Thank Thank you. So the fact the fact that you are putting in a crosswalk and changing those parking for us becomes an amended site plan. So that way we have the updated >> information in here >> which is a good point.
009So where the parking spots are right now AC they're in front of Route 16. >> So we would presume to use those same what we want to do is put a little crosswalk where the tunnel traffic goes into the tunnel. We put a we put a dedicated walkway over the sign up that says we're dog dog walk. So >> does one of those have to be handicap accessible? >> That's the plan. >> I'm sorry. Say again. >> Handicap accessible. >> Um >> the dog bays. >> Yeah. The parking that's being used for the dog. I would think that >> it should have the >> I would think you should >> there probably should be one that's handicapped accessible. >> We have the room for that. Believe it's one per 10 spaces per ADA compliance. >>
010Yeah, yeah, and that I think they're only talking about four spaces. It's just whether we put one there. I mean, I don't I I think there should be one there. I think that would be the the thing to do. [Applause] Maybe I can see it or not. >> Is John coming in or >> John? No. >> Okay. >> Better recup. Oh, from Genie. >> Yeah, he should he should be able to fit. He should be able to fit the handicap space there. >> Yeah. >> Fool around with him a little bit and get it in. I think shouldn't be an issue. I I would put on there >> would not have to come back to us. We're saying >> I mean we can just No, we can we can just do it as >> staff
011confirm it before granting before >> our signature. >> Question for the how many dog wash stations will be on the inside? >> We're going to put in one initially. >> Just one initially >> room for two. Be more than two, but we're starting with one. And then the reason for that question is how to, you know, matching how many customers you expect to be able to utilize. If you said you having 10 dog wash stations and you only had three spots, >> we have room for >> I might take issue to that. So yeah, >> we have room for two dog wash stations putting in one initially. >> One initially with the >> Yeah. >> See how it does. Yeah. Okay. Which would coordinate with >> the need for that that one and that a
012spottle back there just to make sure. Um, I guess in I know I with the town plan I went over what the parking requirements were for that area and you're exceeding it right now, which is good. >> Um, I was just curious. Yeah. Like how many workers do you typically have and where do the workers typically park in that? >> There's usually two at a time in there and they park in those spots right there. Okay. >> But we have easy way dedicated spots on the other side of the building and in front of the building of the office building. >> Yep. >> Okay. which is 193. Exactly. >> So they may have to walk across the parking lot, but they'll have to tough it out. >> Exactly. And that Yeah. And knowing that you
013you are have uh in a sense excess parking than what you're required. I wasn't even sure if you um feel that you need those two out front. Um, and if they're, you know, if you were to remove those two up front as as shown in the in the proposal, you would still meet the parking requirements for your site. >> Yeah, we thank you for that. Uh, we thought we would use them just cuz it was close, you know. Okay. >> Um, and we have the employees go park another spot. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and the reason too for that question is, would you expect customers to park there because obviously it's a long walk from the front of the building along that pathway to your tunnel as the cars queue up? I would not
014expect that we would want to make room for them to park along Route 16. That's where we would have room for them. >> Okay. >> You they drive they drive through the tunnel. >> I realize that. I'm saying if customers were to park in those two spots out front. >> Oh, for the dog. Just got to make sure. That's why. >> No, we could allocate for employees. >> That's what I'm saying. >> We would allocate those for employees. We just got to be careful of those two spots that are up front if someone were to park there and then they don't really in a sense have an egress way to go to the back of the building for the dog wash station. So that's why I'm careful with approving it with those two spots out
015front unless they were designated for employees. >> We would make sure of that. >> Make sure of it, sir. So, so a motion that specifies that those three spaces three correct manage. >> No, the these he's he's more concerned about those two >> those are being added on those two out front. >> I see proposal. >> Just put two signs up for employees employ. >> Right now it says easy way. We'll change it to employees >> for that. >> Okay. >> Um and then just uh >> Well, I was going to go through >> Okay, you're going to go through those. Perfect. >> Uh Matt, you want to go through your letter? >> Sure. I'll just kind of read it. >> Sure. >> Applicant requests waiver site plan approval for adding an ancillary use with
016an existing car wash facility on the subject property. Specifically, the proposal is to add dog wash station ancillary use the existing use. There are no proposed additions to the building as change will be accomplished within the interior alterations only. However, they are proposing to restripe four parking spaces into three spaces and add two spaces to the front of the building and an additional space on the side of the building at 193 East Main. Additionally, they're adding a pedestrian crossing across the drive-thru queue for the car wash with appropriate signage. Planning department defers to public safety officials with regards to pedestrian crossing. We did get letters from the fire department. I'm okay with that. The applicant the applicable zoning requirements appear to be met. As these are amendments to the existing site plan that are proposed,
017I recommend approval of the amendment of site plan subject to relevant agency comments. >> Thank you. Okay. The water department's uh has reviewed the plan and no change in their infrastructure whatsoever. Uh the fire department uh the dumpster enclo uh enclosure details are shown on the plan and the existing dumpster do not have an enclosure. If a permanent enclosure is planned, a mass comprehensive fire safety code has requirements for dumpsters and containers with individual capacity of 1.5 cubic yards or more that shall not be stored in buildings or placed within 10 ft of a combustible walls, openings or combustible roof. So >> So help me with that one. >> Do you do you do you have an existing um dumpster? It's on the other on the other side of the office building, >> right? But
018what they're saying on your plan, it's it's proposed to be enclosed, which is supposed to be. >> I I didn't see that. >> It's not on the plan. It is >> not on the plan. They're not doing anything. >> Oh, no. Well, that's what it said here. >> Oh, they are. Well, they don't have label there. That makes >> They just have the detail. So my isn't isn't the 10 ft uh applicable whether it's enclosed or not. I know that's it sounded like it was. >> Yes. It should not be stored in buildings or placed within 10 ft of combustible walls. Actually he doesn't have a combust. Well the overhang probably is. >> Is that an all metal overhang or >> I don't think so. Isn't that wood above? It's a brick building or block
019building, but >> it's a cement. >> Yeah, the building itself is not combustible, but the overhang I thought was on. >> It might I can't say. I'm sorry. I don't remember what was constructed. >> There's metal roofing all over the tunnel, of course. Was that's all held up with wood. >> Yeah. I'm not sure that >> I have a question. What does enclosed mean? >> Um, >> you got a fence around it. It it needs to be fenced in so that you can't see the dumpster. >> Oh, >> it's a chain link fence enclosure with the >> slats with the the green slats that run through them. Yeah. >> Yeah. Or blockade fence with >> you could use a different type. Most of the people use the just because it's easier to put up the
020chain link. But yeah, anything that blocks the view of the dumpster is effectively what what we're trying to accomplish. >> Okay. So, you're asking that that be constructed. >> It it does actually show that here. The qu the question becomes how far out that dumpster has to be from the edge of that building in order to meet the 10-ft requirement with a block building. If the if the whole building was blocked and there was nothing that could catch fire above it, you could put the dumpster where it shows here. The fact is that what the chief was saying is that if there is any anything that could catch fire, you have to push it away from the building. >> Where's the proposed dumpster? >> I'm just not seeing it on my plan. >> There isn't.
021>> It's an existing dumpster, I believe. And they're just they're just doing this >> the detail. >> So it's over 93. >> It's on a lot. There's none on there's not 93. >> It's on. Sorry. I was Thank you. >> I was over the >> I was kind of getting confused. >> Well, that was that that in a certain sense that that leads me to my other again somewhat technical thing. um is lot three and lot four are effectively if you look at all the calculations here are taken as one >> right >> one development site I I and I'm not saying that that you have any plans on doing this or not but I think I I would like to see a note on this that that says that you know lot three and
022lot four can't be separated uh without uh without coming back to us just because again everything is we're going to there's hardly any parking on here if somebody wants to do something here, then they can't do it and all this. So, it's always been considered one for site plan approval. It's been considered one property. It needs to stay that way unless somebody comes back to us and tells them what we're doing. >> In other words, if you're going to sell the property for some to somebody else, >> you couldn't Yeah, you could >> separate. You're going to come back. >> You couldn't sell one and not the other. >> Oh, sure. >> Without coming back. >> Yeah, we can put that in writing, I guess. I don't see why we >> It can go as
023a note on this plan. >> Exactly. If that were to happen, they were to be separated, would we just remove a service to make that possible and put it back the way it is now or just >> Well, if you're going to if you're going to Yeah. If you're going to remove it, what there's a whole bunch of of things that you went through that said this site meets the requirements of the town of Milford. If you separate them and you're no longer the owner of those, then effectively you've got two separate sites. We'd need we'd need one of these for each site and you'd have to meet the parking requirement on this side would have to be enough for this parking and in the setbacks things like that. >> Yeah. The site only complies
024with zoning as with both lots combined. Each lot individually does not >> understood. Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I'm okay with that. >> Yeah. It's more of a technicality that we've had we have had instances where people have >> the best thing to do with this with the dumpster is call the fire chief. He'll come down, talk to you, and go through with it. >> Yeah, I think it's a great idea. >> He's very good about getting to you. So, >> So, how did that comment get in there? Did the chief put it in already? >> Well, the chief saw the drawings. >> So, we send the drawings out to all of the different departments and then they send us letters letting us know if there's >> highway department, they satisfactory there and we got
025nothing. There's no sewer changes or anything. So there's no problem with the sewer. What's the uh pleasure of the board? >> Just a question. Do we want to There were a couple notes we contemplated. Do you want Do you want a note on the plan? And so I'm I'm I'm about to make a motion, but I don't want to overstep. Do you want a note on the plan that specifies that the two lots must remain that the site plan applies to both lots and each lot individually does not comply with zoning or something to that effect. >> The lot line is not to be removed in order to maintain zoning compliance. >> Couldn't have done it better. >> Works for us guys. >> So I recommend approval subject to adding that note to the plan.
026And there was one other, wasn't there? the fire chief with the dumpster and that that we ensure that the dumpster is a sufficient distance from the building as warranted by the fire chief or as as outlined by the fire chief >> and the inclusion of one handicap parking spot >> and the inclusion of one handicap parking spot. I shouldn't have been the one to make the motion the signs for the two parking employee parking. >> Oh, and the employee parking must be labeled as such >> at the south end. Yeah. >> Did a great job. >> Is that okay, ma'am? It was I had a little help from my friends. I >> think so. I'm done with the motion, I believe, unless you all want to correct me some more. I >> think he captured
027it. >> Very thorough. Very good. >> Yeah, Matt can uh >> Yeah, he'll he'll >> Matt can approve. Well, Matt, I mean, we don't need to see this again. We can >> once once those changes are made to the plan. Matt can >> It's approved. We just need to submit that completed plan back to >> engineer. Now, let's get back to Gary and Hen. What does he have to do at this point? here is >> yeah G&H will have to put the notes on >> they'll have to go through >> put the notes on plan and send it to us and then it'll be approved you don't have to come back >> okay so if we wanted to get started on this >> see how the vote to do it do we think >> uh
028technically as soon as they get us the plan >> okay so we need that >> I hear a second I'll second that >> I wouldn't worry about it >> it's been moved and seconded we approve the amended site plan with the changes. >> Uh any further discussion hearing? None. All those in favor? >> I >> oppose. Unanimous of five. Good evening. >> Thank you very very can I just review those conditions one more time, please? >> Um add a note to the plan. The lot line is not to be removed in order to maintain zoning compliance. Uh designate the two spaces for employee parking, one ADA compliant space, and that the dumpster enclosure is to adhere to the fire department recommendation. >> Perfect. the Yeah, I think the only thing I'm worried about the way
029you worded the first one. >> Yeah, >> maybe we want to indicate that uh site plan was approved, you know, based on lot three and four. Uh no separate sale of of or removal of lot line shall be uh >> permitted or something like that. >> Okay. >> The removal of lot line that that isn't my my worry. What I'm worried about is the sale of of one lot or the other. >> Yeah. separately, which is possible the way it is right now. >> You know, it's not going to happen. >> Okay. >> No, I I I'm not saying it's gonna happen. >> No, I know that >> it's it's downstream from this. >> No, but that's exactly what happened up at Hills Plaza. >> Those are two separate those are two separate >> I'm
030a Milformian. We got to do >> No. And you never know what you know what happens in the future and we we end up with born in his mother's bed in South B Street. >> Y. >> Okay. Thank you very much, buddy. >> Pleasure. Thank you so much. Next, we have a zoning uh ZBA referral for 40 Cape Road. We got two of them. This one's the first one from Marcelo. Yes, sir. So, these are both very similar. Both of these involve the same property. Both are one is for auto sales and one is for auto repair. There's the plan. Didn't make it into the What's going on? There it is. Did they give up on the campus? >> No, no, no. That's different. >> This is across the street. This is the old >>
031Oh, the Braza one. Okay. >> Yep. >> So, okay. I'll go through the first one anyway. >> Special permits to establish used motor vehicle repair use on the subject property. Such vehicle rated uses require special perm from the ZBA in the CC zoning district. Hold on, I'm reading the wrong one. >> Okay. Specifically, the applicant Marcelo Arojo, if I got that right, propos >> Aruio, thank you. Proposes the sale of used cars in new office space and 10 display spaces shown on the plan. To be in zoning compliance of the property, you need 16 off streetet spaces which are provided per the submitted plan as follows. Automotive sales and service facilities. This is straight out of the bylaw. One space per 400t of gross floor area interior sales and office space plus two spaces per
032service bay plus one space per 5,000 ft of external display. However, there should be a minimum of four spaces. So, the the pre-existing office that's maintain that's staying there, it's four spaces for for per 1,000 ft of gross floor area. That's still there, stays as is. Uh, unit one, this is the one that's part of our first application, is 192 ft of 400 ft. So, that's one space plus four service base spaces. That's two per bay. 1,690 ft of 5,000. is one space equals six spaces. That's for the auto sales. If you want to combine both of these, the separate the second application is for auto repair. That's uh unit two is for one space for the square foot of the office. Four service base spaces. That's two per bay and five spaces total. Unit
033three, the pre-existing office has the four spaces per thousand square ft of gross floor area. It's 1153. So they have five spaces. Total parking six spaces per unit 1, five for unit 2 and five for unit 3 to 16 spaces. They meet the absolute minimum required here. >> So I recommend favorable report for the zoning board of appeals for both applications subject that the applicant updates their company name as part of their application because all they put on was their personal name. They didn't put their company name. >> And uh they provide an updated floor plan to us and amended site plan would be acquired from the planning board. The first one is sales. The second one is repair. The bays are pretty deep. Each bay can fit two, maybe even three vehicles. >> Yeah.
034But they're only asking for two. So, >> any comments from the board? if it fits. I guess >> I'm not I mean >> they had a construction company there before. So, >> well, I I can I can guarantee you we're going to see cars lined up on 140 and there's no real view there. But that that's I guess a problem for somebody else. But I just know that that's what's going to be there sooner or later cuz you're not going to sell a damn car that that doesn't show out on the street at all. I mean, somebody isn't going to drive in to look at four cars, but there's no way we can control that. What do you worry about, Joe? Like having them up on the >> Well, for used car sales, there is
035no there is no viewing of a used car at that lot. You can't see a used car that's parked there. As a matter of fact, most of them are behind Correct. >> behind landscaping. And so I can tell you that sooner or later the cars are going to be sitting out on 140 for sale >> if they they would have to take down some of that landscaping is what >> Yeah. or or pocking them in the driveway or whatever because we've seen >> anything and everything happen. Yep. >> But again, that's >> that's for an enforcement officer. >> Uh so understand >> I mean for what's shown here, I I make a >> I make a motion we send a favorable recommendation to ZBA for uh uh for both. >> You're doing both at once?
036>> Yeah. >> Unless someone >> second for both. >> Moved and second. We uh send a favorable recommendation for both uh applicants. Uh any uh further discussion? Can I make one suggestion? Um including or asking the ZBA to include in their decision that the that the um cars for sale have to be within the approved >> site. the approved um display locations >> As indicated on the site plan, >> if they include that in the special in the um in the decision, then it has a little more weight than if it's just on the >> site plan. >> That's fine with me. >> Me, too. >> Matt, you had one other concern just as far as the application. Yeah, they need to update their company names as part of the application. >> Well, that's for
037the site plan, right? >> Yeah. They need to update it as with their special >> not really affects us. >> Yeah. >> Well, will it come from the site plan? >> Site plan. Yes. >> Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. All those in favor? Opposed? unanimous of five >> counselor update. >> What's the uh pleasure of the board? >> We skipped number four. >> We did. So, oh, excuse me. So, I don't have any updates for this meeting, but I do I do want to keep like an open dialogue here, at least on our agenda at some point, so we can discuss on any ongoing projects, any concerns that the board has, properties, or anything that's going on. Um, I took a handful of calls today about existing subdivisions. I didn't know anything about them.
038So, even you picking your brain on some of those things might be helpful. But, um, just just trying to get to learn the ropes. I did take a call from what was the name of the street? >> Field Pond. >> No, it was a culde-sac >> Ariana Little one. Combmes. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Where uh, the fire department wanted to relocate a fire hydrant. Right. and fire fire departments kind of the ones who determine where those things go. Now I told him it was okay and Larry said you should come to the planning board with those things and moving forward. I was like okay why but that's a good question for you guys. So when he moved a fire hydrant as part of his subdivision I told him to put it on an asill
039plan and reflect that when they do it. Is that something that this board would like to be discussing? Moving of fire hydrants or anything that involving our specialists and fire department. >> Um, personally, as long as the fire department's okay with the revised location. >> That's what I thought. >> Yeah. >> I just it >> I mean technically it should come here. >> For for for what it takes somebody to come here, it probably just for consistency, >> but then they've got to get the engineered drawing and all of that. >> Well, they're going to have to do that anyways. We should do that. That was part of what he said. >> Not for a proposed, just for >> Well, sooner or later you're going to have to even build. >> You seriously want somebody
040in here for every time they going to move? How often does it happen? >> Yes, >> it's it. >> Yeah. Let's be consistent. >> I'm I I agree. We should be consistent, but I would say consistently don't have them come here >> for for something >> for something that minor. If that's the case, >> provided again the critical thing being the fire department approved. So >> if that's the case, then there's a lot then there's a lot of things that I need to come and ask you guys about because >> let's do it. >> There are a lot >> just >> yeah I I >> you you make you know if you're going to do that and and and have us build drawings everywhere >> and you know and just make these changes on the
041fly. I I >> I'm not suggesting that they should make things on the fly. I'm suggesting that I that they call our office and I make a judgment call sometimes and how and and this differs depending on which board or commission I'm reporting to because they have different um >> perspectives. >> Yeah. For they have different um Yeah. perspectives, I guess. And so I try to make sure I'm not overloading you with things that aren't um that don't need to wait 2 weeks for me to come and ask you if they can move a fire hydrant. Right. I that's something I feel like I'm capable of discerning on my own. Um so I'm not saying they should be able to just move stuff without asking anybody. I just feel like there's things that um you
042know even handicap parking spaces, ADA parking spaces, I got to stop saying handicap. Um if they if they want to move one from on a site plan from what was approved I don't I mean it I can have them come back to you. It just seems unnecessary. I I completely understand where Joe is coming from because you just used the word judgment and that's the correct word to use. But one person's judgment could be different than anothers. And but but nonetheless, I do think some changes really don't warrant preparation of an engineered drawing waiting two weeks to come on an agenda for us to vote it in about 30 seconds. >> I agree. So, the fire hydrant being a public safety thing, I thought the fire official was the right person to talk about. But
043when we're changing a sidewalk location or something that's on the subdivision plan that needs an amendment, that should come here. >> Or something like a new curb cut, getting rid of granite curbs so that a driveway can go in, that's a big change. That's something that should come here. So, >> but Liz's judgment or Matt's judgment and Joe's judgment or or Bab's judgment, you know, they might be different. And I think is that the slippery slope you're kind of >> You didn't use the phrase slippery slope, but I Right. >> I think that's kind of what you mean is what I consider minor you might consider not so minor. >> I've been at quality insurance for 45 years. So I I' I've lived it >> and uh it's who's whoever's making a judgment. I mean
044if we had a >> completely agree >> you know if we had a a procedure or a process that we can uh you know give you some guidance on what to do then that would be fine. But I don't know if we have one right now. >> We don't. What was just just to ask you what was >> what was the move of the fire hydrant? What was requested or what happened? >> It was from the back of the culde-sac up to the front and one of the corners. It was still within the right of way, but it was I don't know was more >> in a certain sense, you know, and chances are we're not going to say no or not if the but I'd like to know >> why >> and and and
045so I don't mind that coming back to us just for an explanation. So, not that there's going to be any, not there's going to be a whole bunch more coming in Milford because there isn't any, but >> but just to know what, you know, what the parameters are that that they're looking at in my own right. If someone's moving it 5T, >> you know, 500, I I couldn't tell on the scale where it was to begin with. I could care less if they wanted to move it that way. But moving it from one side to the other, I'd at least like an explanation as to why that's where he wants to put it now. >> Noted. >> I think I have a suggestion. The reason, not to interrupt, the reason they have, he probably moved
046it to the front of the thing is what they do is they sit there, they pull up, pull the hose off, then run it out where if you're going to go the other way with a house in the middle, then you got to bring go up and bring it back. And that's how they do it. The only problem, and I got no problem with moving, but I still want to have the fire hydrant at the end of the culde-sac anyway because the water department right now is putting these >> hydrants at the back of the the culde-sac so they can flush the lines out and they don't have any dead end lines that aren't flushed out. These are conversations that are easy for me to have between the fire department and the water department and
047and my perspective that you're >> you're going to bog everything down if you try to >> and we're going to approve anything that the fire department or the water department want. >> Yeah. >> One water department's going to do it for for health reasons and the fire department is doing it for safety reasons. >> Yeah. And if they're both in agreement, it's we're basically rubber stamping because we don't have a better judgment than either of those. >> I'm not going to question. >> May May I try something? Did you want to, Chris? >> Oh, I want to see if yours matches mine. I wrote it down first. >> Okay. I didn't write it down, so I'm going to wing it. Um, I'm I'm thinking of something where in in the case of what we believe
048to be an an extraordinarily minor change that we allow them to come in marking up a the previously approved site plan and stip and so say we see the new location that's in it's an X on the on the on a copy of the actual plan that's already been approved and if said relocation of the hydrant or whatever is is voted by us Um, so I'm still having them come to us, but without doing a revised engineered drawing, but that that new location has to be reflected on the asbuilt. >> Does that make any sense? >> I have more I have more questions. So, >> well, I wasn't sure. And kind of to add on to that, would it without putting more workload on you every other every meeting have a quick engineers report to
049go over these measures, right? like, hey, for Gome's way, I I approve the moving of a of a fire hydrant per the order of the fire department. So that way we have an idea of what's going on. Okay. >> If we feel that there are situations where oh I think planning board should have been a part of that process. At least we can we can let you know for the next one. >> Well, exact that was going to see at a minimum at least that gives me some >> I some idea of what you guys want. So an engineer report >> because >> cuz I so yeah I'm I'm perfectly fine with that. I would say have them submit it as a field change, which you know, I've had them do and I sign off
050on it and I put it in the file so that >> but I do I don't that's it's easy enough for me to say yes, this is a field change that I have approved. And I yeah, I I trust your judgment on those. And I think, you know, to Joe's point, it's more of making us aware of those changes maybe just so we can have an understanding of some of the items that are coming to your desk and to the town planners desk that may not necessarily need our made our >> our approval, but we understand what's going on. >> Because that'll also help me. My other question was going to be when I'm reviewing and not that we have a lot of subdivisions, but when we when I do review site plans, um when
051I do review a site that has been constructed, there there are obviously changes that are made during construction just because and you know how if if I'm if if I'm reviewing a subdivision vision to make sure all the fire hydrants are within 10 ft of their initial design location. Like that's kind of crazy. So I that that process of reporting back to you what field changes and you know that way I can >> um make adjustments to my judgment calls based on >> and to go back to Joe's thing of the of doing Matt brought it up about the sidewalks >> and when you wanted the sidewalks changed on SIA circle. >> Yeah. Field pond. Yeah. >> You feel a thing. Yeah, >> you you came before us and we >> I was on the
052other side and yes, I came >> like a movement I was at >> sidewalk or something. It's done. >> It's done. Now I I've just noticed that >> there's a lot of things that we build and and uh and fix in town. Uh and there's little accountability, little oversight over when a project gets finished. I mean, so inspecting to the plan, I think it's a good idea. Inspect it to the juror, make sure that the work was done properly. >> And and for subdivisions, that absolutely happens. >> Um, and I review them >> I review them quite >> extensively. Yes. Um, but I don't, like I, like I was, if they put a fire hydrant on the other side of a driveway, it's not something that I even look at. Um but you know there's
053yes I I look at those um pretty detailed um as far as site plans are concerned when the building department or zoning department whichever way you want to call it when they ask when they they receive a request for zoning compliance. Sometimes they reach out to me sometimes they don't. Sometimes it's probably too simple for them to bother reaching out to me. Um, I know on like Walgreens and the gas station are the two biggest ones that I can on East Main Street. Um, those are the two biggest ones that I can recall recently having gone out and inspected and in fact had them make changes on both um before they issued the certificate of zoning compliance. So, it it is something that's happening. I don't know if it's happening as much as >> it
054should happen on everyone according to what we do. >> He's not supposed to issue a occasy permit until he has an asbuilt that says it was built to the way it was supposed to. >> Again, this has happened. I mean, this has been going on for >> 20some years. We never can seem to get over the the hump on on this of of people getting, you know, people come in and ask for occupancies. And >> you know, we we we've tried to set up as much control as we can to make sure we got what what was put on the plan and we still seem like we're losing. >> So, is that not something I I don't know. I there's I know there's towns where they were you have to go back to the >>
055Yeah. >> planning board. Is that not something you can >> But we could I it would be a change in wording because I believe >> it does say something about >> this build plan has to be submitted. It has to be certified. >> The thing is with the the building code is the building code official has the right to give the occupancy >> whenever he wants. >> Yeah. But that's different than the zoning compliance. They're two different things. >> Occupancy is occupancy. >> I understand. But the certificate of zoning compliance. >> Yes, I understand there's a difference. I'm just saying he >> Yeah, I know it. I know it is. But you would hope that somebody has the >> And and we do. I mean, because he you he calls you in to go look
056at the at at the site plan. So >> on some of them >> some of them. Yes. >> Excuse me. >> They put um they put >> Go ahead. No, that's I mean we can we can take a look at the wording and see if there's a way to differentiate that wording again to see if we can make it a little more >> tighter or however you want. >> If that's something I I just if that's something you guys want then then that's something I I guess I can Matt and I can talk to um Brian about to see if there's a wording that would I don't know. I'm I'm sure there are other towns that have it too that you know if you take a look at the zoning what their wording is in
057terms of of that there might be a better way of doing it than what we have in in the bylaw right now. It may be something to spend some time with. I mean we've had to a certain extent continuing issues with it, you know, with various sites. >> Do we typically add conditions to say that a built must be submitted prior to the close of permit? >> So there's a bunch of standard conditions. I I believe that that that's part of the wording that we have in here that they're supposed to submit an asbuilder for my >> In the bylaw, it is there. >> It shouldn't have to be stated. It's there. That that's the only way they can do it. Whether that happens or not and how can we make sure that it happens.
058In fact, >> I mean, >> I know at least >> going back well going back to the biggest killer of all, Walden Woods. I mean, we had somebody certify that it was that it was correct to the plan and they missed the sidewalk the whole length of the whole length of the uh thing. >> Wow. >> You know, and none of us remembered it and none of us picked it up and we ended up with no sidewalk and and them coming back and saying, "Oh, it was too expensive to put it in after the fact." >> And we had already certified. So, they had already there wasn't much we could do at the time. >> So, so, so let me ask you this. um asbuilt drawings. I mean to me in my world they were
059always uh uh you know exceptions or deviations. How how do those get back to the original drawings? Did they get updated? as of as of right now and there's no asbuilt com require there's no point in the process where somebody is saying I need an asbuilt of your site >> site plans do not require an >> uh >> site plans >> subdivisions yes I'm sorry yes subdivisions require an an asbuilt and that's part of the process that I that That's entirely within your purview. It doesn't so it doesn't have anything to do with zoning. So that's why that h it happens because it's part of >> subdivision rules and regulations. >> We don't accept we won't accept a a um a street unless they've given us an asville plan that accurately reflects and and doesn't
060deviate any you know significantly from the the design plan. Uh but for site plans, uh the very very rarely do um asbuilts get completed um except for drainage. The drainage on a site um typically does get >> we have we have no we can we can try stuff. We have no mechanism to stop it because we issue we approve a site plan that means you can go get a building permit. After that, there's nothing that there's so so we don't we don't give him any there's nothing for us to give him after we approve a site plan. >> The only thing that he needs at that point in time is an occupancy permit. >> We don't we don't hold the keys to that. So, we have no way of of forcing somebody. I mean, the
061only thing that we could do, I think, that we may be able to do is is to require um require him to put up a bond for the site for a survey of the site at the end of the thing that we wouldn't release until he either submits that to us or not. So, at least we're holding some money. I think we could do that. Not positive, but I think we could. We need bonding in the bylaw in order to request it. I know it's in the subdivision control region control. >> It's not in the zoning bylaw. >> So, we may want I mean that's maybe where we have to go. I mean that that probably would be the thing to do, but that's all we're going to be able to do is to try
062to hold up some level of money for them to do it because we don't hold the keys once we once we say the site plan is is acceptable. It's not our thing. So maybe that's something that we want to look into because we we we really should have as built of of all the uh especially electronically. So as we move forward, it it it allows you the opportunity to to use those for people that come in and want to make changes and stuff like that and the owner is now changed and and all that stuff becomes difficult and we're dealing with people that >> and we can put it into honestly into GIS. >> GIS. Yeah. >> Is the would be the end goal. >> Yeah. So I mean that may be that may be
063worthwhile. >> All right. >> Okay. What's the pleasure of the board? >> So motion to adjurnn. Unless anyone has anything else. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. We adjourn. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? Opposed? Unanimous of five. Good evening. Thank you. >> Thank you, Matt. You do.