001all right good evening I'd like to call this meeting to order Miss Richards roll call president Schultz let the record show that all five board members are present this evening thank you please join us in a moment of silence and Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States no I'd like to make a motion to approve the agenda seconded all those in favor I those opposed motion carries five to one [Music] I mean five to zero sorry uh superintendent's report Mrs Richards president Schultz members of the board is we start this new school year we celebrate all the great things that are happening in Higley some of these happen this summer and we wanted to share these with you and clickers again there it is all right this summer at
002Arizona's thespian leadership camp we had teachers work with students their April French who's a high school teacher along with John Percival who's one of our uh uh theater teachers and also Devin Adams went to Camp it was a great leadership experience in Heber Arizona while there we had Raya McCormick Higley High School 12th grader and teslan Curtis A Williams Field High School 12th grader named officers so we are celebrating we are celebrating that this evening and the leaders we have within the school district Dr Lindsay good evening president Schultz members of the board we also have had some wonderful back to school assemblies as Richards if you could Advance the slide I can't oh there we go um so we're staff at Centennial Elementary every year they do this annually they do a performance for
003the kids and this year with the Mario Brothers movie that was their theme so they had a whole Mario theme and the kids loved it they ended up with um the flash mob at the end where all the staff joined on stage and did a dance routine and the whole place was rocking so it was super fun and then the next slide we have a picture from Cortina Elementary if you could Advance one more time not sure where that went oh there it is um stripes the mascot was there and the teachers also performed skits for the students and they reviewed the character Matrix so just two quick examples of the many assemblies that our schools hosted to welcome kids back and get everybody excited for the new year whoops wrong direction all right many
004of you attended the Higley High School celebration of the opening of the new academic building the social studies teachers are thrilled moved in and bragging every day about what's going on over there this is I want to shout out to Mr Moore and his leadership and his team for leading the charge with this it was a beautiful facility and if you haven't been able to tour it we will take you on a tour Mr Lawson hazard president Schultz members of the board curriculum nights are important start of the school year and and for those of you who are still parents I'm sure that you had the opportunity to attend the curriculum nights where our families can go through the class schedule and walk around campus with their uh with their students and meet the teachers
005as well and so we just have some highlights and some pictures of our curriculum nights at Higley High all four of the secondary schools help their curriculum nights as well as well of our elementaries and that's just a great picture of Mr Fields they're holding a door open well done Mr fields again we assessment held their curriculum night as well lots of smiling faces as the parents and families went through the hallways to meet the teachers more of the same Elementary also held curriculum night this past Thursday and this is a picture from Centennial president Schultz members of the board who want to highlight our upcoming events can you guys open that up please excuse us we've got new controllers everywhere including us so the next board meeting is August 23rd here in this room
006we also have a visit a school visit which they've called superintendent visits in the past to Bridges Elementary School we hope that you can join us for that they're all geared up and ready to brag because they've already told us of course September 4th is Labor Day and no school and our business partners breakfast is on September 14th okay thank you very much Mrs Richards that flash mob looked really cute all right request to speak we value input from our constituents this time on our agenda has been set aside for anyone from the audience who wishes to address the board those that wish to speak have filled out speaker cards which were due to the prior to the start of the meeting members of the board may not discuss comment or take action on matters
007raised that are not specifically identified on the agenda therefore pursuant to ARS 38-431.0 H action taken as a result of public comment will be limited to directing staff to study the matter responding to any criticism or scheduling the matter for further consideration and decision at a later date also we ask the audience members practice proper public medium decorum refraining from either negative or positive responses including clapping or verbal outbursts to ensure fairness to all points of view those that refuse to follow those rules will be asked to leave speakers limit your remarks to three minutes thank you for your cooperation first I have Aubry Thompson and it's being read by Melanie Shea hey thank you um Aubry is a mom in the district she's a former teacher and she recently had open heart surgery to
008replace a valve so she's not here tonight but asked she cares a lot about what's happening in our district um this is from Aubry I watched the previous board meeting where dress code changes were discussed and am concerned about the direction this may be headed after some of the comments that were made a few board members expressed concern that certain aspects of the dress code such as the requirement to cover the midriff was sexualizing our children I do not agree quite the opposite in fact having basic standards including covering the midriff teaches kids who have lots of hormones and whose brains are still developing that there's a time and a place for certain types of clothing school isn't a fashion show a party or a dance club so there's no need for anyone to be
009showing their midriff boy or girl if we don't draw the line at covering your midriff and undergarment area what's to stop a boy from wearing some sort of crop top and sagging his pants to an uncomfortable level or what's to stop a girl from wearing a strapless bra and a tube top Technically she's covering her undergarment area by removing that Baseline expectation we are opening up the possibility that some pretty inappropriate clothing could be worn by the kids who want to push the envelope and no one could stop them not really the best thing for a learning environment we as the adults need to set the standard that kids should be able to follow for a school setting thank you thank you and now I have Melanie Shea speaking sorry I wasn't sure the order
010thank you for allowing me to share a few brief remarks today I'm a taxpayer supporting the district I'm a parent of students who graduated from husd schools in addition I have worked in education including working in this district office Shirley board members and District staff have done research on benefits dress codes have on student achievement and safety I will quote from just one study which is available on the U.S Department of Education res website quote reports from principals teachers and students indicate that the imposition of a dress code is related to higher morale reduced disciplinary referrals improved school safety and a learning focused School climate close quote we all dress appropriately for the occasion all employees of this District have a dress code and as you look around you're all dressed very nicely thank you
011most adults have addressed code for their work UPS drivers U.S postal workers medical professionals and all support staff Pilots attorneys elected officials fire and police officers athletes musicians chefs servers Hotel staff just to name a few almost every workplace requires employees to comply with a dress code when we're on the job we aren't free to do what we want these policies are are in place that we must comply or face losing our job why would we pattern for students an unrealistic environment where anything goes K-12 schooling is the work our children are doing to help them grow and develop and learn important Knowledge and Skills to set them on a trajectory for successful adult living when doing the work of learning dress for work take the work of school seriously if you allow students to
012dress like they're going to the beach don't expect them to act the part of a serious student when you play dress for play when you're at home or on your own Time dress as you please but when at school or at work dress for the occasion again that address code on the U.S Department of Education is related to higher morale reduce disciplinary referrals improved school safety and learning focused School climate I trust that the board would not consider changes to the dress code without strong research of academic Improvement to support the change you are in the business of Education all policies you approve should promote learning focused School climate serve students well by setting policies that help them prepare to live as successful adults thank you excuse me next speaker Mrs Barbara Summers hey good
013evening um I didn't prepare anything fancy but I wanted to say that I really appreciate the work that the district did on revising the dress code policy I know that I sent a very lengthy email and I feel that we have taken the time to make a fair unbiased and inclusive dress code nobody's asking that you take away a dress code we're asking that you just make it fair um to further go on our beginning of the year has been great our staff at williamsfield as always is amazing our teachers are Administration our coaches really appreciative of all the work that they do year round and especially at the beginning of the year to make parents feel like we are involved and included um and I wanted to make a comment that I think that
014the board should consider a student advisory Council many other districts have a student advisory Council whether it be with the superintendent or um just at this the district level and that allows the students to speak on these matters and to give their voice and their opinions because as you know our high school students are becoming adults and they need to make decisions for themselves and this is a great place to get them involved in government Beyond student council so I really think that the district should consider that because we are moving in such a great Direction and we are doing such good things within our community and I appreciate you all thank you so much I think this is just miss p I come to you today with two points that I'd like you to
015consider in a future meeting the first one has to do with why we meet at 5 pm as you can see not many parents teachers students or members of the community can make a five o'clock meeting as a teacher I'm cutting out trying to get here my students well my own children who are one of which is in high school is at activities until 6 30 at night how were their voices able to be heard how are Community Voices able to be heard if the meetings maintain being at 5 pm who therefore is our own School Board truly representing when the community cannot make it to the time how does the community get their voices heard this leads into my second thing I'd like the board to consider the last meeting which was the first
016one I was able to make it to by sheer chance of my husband being able to take our kids to all their events there was a lot of verbal bullying going on amongst board members you speak a point of view and acceptance that you want your students and faculty to have but there was no respect amongst a bunch of you and one particular member her point of view you kept changing her words and making it seem like she was against faculty just because she was asking very serious questions about a particular event sadly at one of the curriculum nights that I attended not Williams Field but it was at one of the middle schools I saw that same level of bullying going on amongst faculty against a new faculty member what you all do on
017this board and the way you treat each other that is viewed by the your fellow teachers as what's acceptable I was appalled when walking through that one particular middle school and the jokes and laughter I heard from other teachers and all I could think of is well how did they find that their behavior was acceptable and I kept coming back to the last board meeting where the same type of behavior was on display so I would like you to consider the fact that the way you speak to each other in front of the public even when there's very few here is how your fellow teachers treat their teachers also thank you next uh Jennifer Arnold good evening my name is Jennifer Arnold I am a teacher at Higley Traditional Academy proud member of the Higley
018Education Association tonight though I'm here to talk as a mom my daughter Kate graduated from Williams Field High School in May she began her academic career here in Higley the first year that Centennial opened she began at the kinder prep program that at that point was just one class which obviously has grown a lot she stayed at Centennial moved to HTA when I was hired there went to Cooley Middle School and onto Williams Field High School at the age of 12 Kate was diagnosed with autism so as you can imagine the path that we were on took a right turn and we had to navigate new Waters sorry public speaking not my favorite thing um so I just wanted to call to give a shout out to some of the teachers at williamsfield high school
019that made her academic career um enjoyable I first wanted to recognize her case manager Nikki Fife Nikki forged a bond with Kate and a relationship with her and Kate came to trust her and knew that if she needed anything that Nikki would help her and two of the teachers I'm sorry three of the teachers that Kate just adored were Muriel Inman who she took for French one and two her English teacher Brittany O'Neal and her ceramics teacher Elizabeth Habib all of these teachers took the time to make my daughter feel seen and make her feel special which when you are a child especially a girl on the autism spectrum sometimes making friends is hard to do so knowing that you had a teacher there to support you meant a lot to our family and to
020Kate so I just wanted to really highlight a great success for our um for our district and specifically for Williams Field high school I'm grateful to be a part of this district and I'm grateful that my daughter attended our schools thank you next we have Mindy brocker thank you very much for the opportunity to speak I hate public speaking so please be patient with me but you know meeting after meeting there does seem to be a concerted effort from a small very small segment of our community but they're loud and it seems like they wish to tear down public education push parents towards Esa vouchers and in fact shut down the Board of Education they often question not only the professionalism and conduct of our husd Educators but they're very morality so I wanted to
021just take a minute today to tell you why I love my public school and the people that hold it up because I think they should hear it so I just want to say thank you to every teacher who smiled through the chaos and craziness that is the first day parent and kid Jitters alike thank you so much for standing in this horrible heat endlessly waiting car lines forward um and trying to repair car line issues that are endless I want to say thank you to the bus drivers who always hit me with a smile and a wave and they take my kids to and from school safely every day thank you to the virtual teachers who make it so that my children can take classes that they want to take even with a teacher shortage
022and the chaos of staffing issues thank you to the health staff who are always kind and patient and help my kids when they don't feel well we've already had that thank you to the teachers who spend hours in IEP meetings who keep us up to date on their classes and how they're educating my children so that parents have a right to know what's going on they also deal with endless emails from my children and from their mother thank you to the administrators who always help every time we ask with a smile and finally thank you to those teachers the ones who make my children think who teach them that they're valued who partner with the parents to help us to create that next generation of leaders thank you next we have Adam brocker good evening
023I'm a parent of three wonderful kids in our district our family has been here about 10 years now and it's been a wonderful experience for us overall um unfortunately the reason I'm here this evening is that the conversation has gotten utterly toxic I would like the board to discuss a code of conduct for social media for specifically board members the reason I'm asking for this this evening is one of the mem one of the board members is specifically using their social media presence to identify specific teachers in our state and leading others to harass them they are putting up all kinds of poisonous language and specifically linking to those teachers uh District staff page this is not a not appropriate um it is not okay to direct this kind of harassment towards our teachers there
024should be some sort of punishment for those kinds of actions uh I don't care about what your politics are and how you choose to express them but harassing teachers online is not and will never be okay this person is a bully and should be ashamed of themselves thank you thank you I believe it's Ira Latham was that right yeah okay thank you uh president Schultz members of the board and I don't know how to address you all but all y'all thank you for this opportunity to speak um I'm coming today as a father uh of four kids in the district um and as also a business owner I'm going to speak specifically on the um the new dress attire uh recommendations um first I want to thank everyone that's been involved in updating policy it's
025a challenging thing to do especially when you want to represent a whole community so I understand that that's very difficult um specifically I wanted to address the vagueness of the new policy as opposed to the the old policy and my recommendation would be to re-look at that and how we can integrate some of the older policies into the new policy vagueness I'm speaking of is uh the actual the the recommended recommended new policy does not give enough specifications on what should be covered it specifically talks about just the uh underwear areas and private areas whereas the old policy specifically called out mid-drifts modest chest covering and the reason why I think this is a specifically important for a for a father of kids is I was once a teenage boy I I remember how school
026was and uh and I understand how dress codes are important with regards to the classroom setting I've had nothing but respect for higher education and education in general and I think that creating a good safe classroom environment is important I understand the need to express yourself but that's not the right place to do it in the classroom uh with with regards to dress and attire we need to kind of set a Level Playing Field um as as a business owner I think that we're disserviceing the children by not properly getting them the right expectations on what they're expected to once they leave the schooling system I've never seen a business that I've ever been either been in or been a part of or even organization that doesn't have stricter dress requirements than the one that's
027outlined in the current policy so so as a business owner I'm a little confused of the purpose of the dress code if it's not setting children up or students up for Success after school um it would be my recommendation to uh or my request for recommendation to be able to review the policy as as regards to Old policy and see where we can kind of combine and make make it a little bit better policy for the students for the teachers and as well for the community as large thank you next we have Monica Latham members of the board um I want to say thank you like I know that this takes a lot of time and effort you guys you could say don't get paid for this this is something that you know takes a
028lot of time for out of your family so I do want to say thank you for doing that um especially since we're all so busy and so it just puts an extra thing on you so um but I did want to address what happened last board meeting I was very concerning to me to see a board member demean and talk down to another board member it went on for about a minute or or over a minute we were supposed to be above that we were supposed to to help make roles that prevent prevent that from happening in our classes and in our schools and it was happening right here in this Council how can we help kids teens be kind to one another when we can't do it ourselves we are all humans and should
029be treated as such I hope that we can stop this from reoccurring um just because it was done with educated words does not mean it was the right thing to do or should be allowed to continue everyone on this board earned their right to be here and represents different thoughts and ideas from all different people and all different families a lot of families that I that I am part of also and so um I'm the spouse to Ira and so we do have four kids here and I have three kids at Chaparral Elementary go sharks um a good Mantra that they have they have the ACB 7 learning habits now it's eight learning eight habits um to be a leader and one of them is first seek to understand than to be understood and we
030should definitely be taking that into account and should not be doing what happened last last meeting um anyways I I also really wanted to quickly touch base with also the the dress code um it's very vague if my husband and I have talked about it a lot and when I was in high school yes it was over 10 years ago but are under 10 years what but I had my best friend who developed early she got pregnant at 16. and boys pursued her very quickly and I can't imagine what's going on now with more even more clothing I meant more skin that's being shown so I would hope that we can re-evaluate this dress attire because I don't feel like it's covering up enough especially it's way too broad it is not um helping our
031kids learn in in or excel in the classroom and so I just don't understand what changing this how it's going to help our kids study and learn and to do to do well in school thank you John Mason I'd like to take this from a personal approach we frequently look at this in terms of an abstraction address code is important and and I was thinking about my father who died some six or seven years ago and he did everything that he possibly could for our family he was a humble blue-collar worker he had a hot dirty sweaty job and seeing him come home was often very difficult because because he had the kind of job where he got injured frequently he had dirt under his fingernails he had calluses his hands would come home bleeding
032and it was difficult to see and and when he came home he frequently he looked horrible the appearance was horrible he didn't spend money on his self he spent money on the family he spent money so that way when I get went to school I could look presentable he made that sacrifice for the family and a dress code does matter the other day I saw a state employee and she did not look professional and we can call it discrimination we can call it whatever but I had an unfortunate encounter with a state employee she didn't look unprofessional and yeah we could say that I discriminated against you or my attitude was prejudicial on but you know how you dress matters I'd like to talk a little bit more about my father on he didn't make
033a lot of money he made far less than a teacher and he did everything possible so that way I could get a good education he sacrificed he was on a very liberal Democrat and he always wanted more money for the schools he always wanted better pay for the teachers and finally I was a teacher I said you know what Dad I make more than enough I make far more than what you do and quite frankly dad you deserve to earn more money than I um we have to be careful when teachers take the high road and say I deserve more I work too hard I work whatever we got to think about the blue collar workers who sacrifice who work hard who give everything so that way their kids can have the best we have
034to think about are we spending our money efficiently because this is the part that kind of got me when I was a teacher is I'd see all this waste in the district and yet we're always asking for more and more and more and more more and more money but let's look at how we're spending the money now let's show some respect for these hard-working blue collar workers who give and sacrifice so that way we can have good schools so let's think about how we're spending our money let's think about our dress code let's think about the future thank you very much for listening to me here today next we have [Music] school board members and administration um I'm here to talk about the dress code also I decided to go out and ask several people
035I've asked several people throughout the community how they feel about it and they definitely feel like we need to if anything make it more modest I talked to several of the young men in our community that are going to your schools and they definitely feel the very same way they feel like the school code is too loose that the girls are showing way too much skin and it's very hard for them sometimes to concentrate because they like to look at skin and so I decided to go that route instead of um so that you as school board members would understand that it's not just a few of us that are here it's a whole Community out there that really want to have a better dress code and by making it more loose is not an
036answer if anything we should make it more modest and I hope that you'll consider that and vote for us to not change it and maybe make it better going the other way to where it's more modest thank you yeah next Heather balk good evening board members um I have some additional comments that I'm just going to add here to you I want to say thank you to the board members who have teacher experience and they speak from a perspective of The Possession profession that you guys represent a lot of times I'm in the audience and there's so much I want to say but I can't so I appreciate it when board members do the next thing I want to say is that no matter what a person has on their body is wearing is not
037wearing skin is showing is not showing does not justify the inappropriate feelings or actions of others period okay off my soapbox and now um I wanted to read to you something that Steve Irvin he is a former ABC news anchor he wrote this back in 2018 it was near the start of school so these are all of his words not mine thank you for teaching I said in this case it was someone I met randomly a full-time educator working one day a week on the weekends just to make ends meet it's a phrase I've used dozens of time particularly in the last few months I think it should become a custom in our community just like many of us habitually extend a hand to a veteran or police officer or a first responder we should
038show appreciation to teachers whenever we get the chance some might argue that teachers don't put their lives on the line like the people who protect our community fair enough on the other hand there's a growing list of teachers who have given their lives to protect their students and more will do so it's not as if we've really addressed the problem of school shootings teachers serve the greater good we trust them to protect our kids to keep them safe we ask them to guide our most most precious citizens and help them find a path to a prosperous future that service is worth a handshake a cup of coffee it's worth a simple Act of gratitude First Responders don't hear it enough and I suspect teachers don't either now is the perfect time to do it it's
039the first day of school for many kids some districts have already been open for a couple of weeks say it to a teacher who watches your kids or your grandkids say it even if you don't have children drop a card or a note in the mail to your local school and ask them to share your sentiments with staff and just in case I haven't said it enough to Any teacher reading this thank you for teaching yours is one of the most important jobs in our community you are vital to our future and nothing I can say or do can equal your selfless effort to make our community a better place thank you that concludes our request to speak now we'll move on to I think address something please um I'd like to address Mr Adam
040brocker for your comment to state that there should be a code of conduct because I post inappropriate things on social media I'd like to let you know that's an absolute lie I barely ever post anything on social media when I do it's my kids or my dog other than that I don't post anything on my personal social media page so I just want to let you know that that's an absolute lie thank you I have to remain um thank you that's a warning and moving on to the consent agenda 5.1 through 5.13 I make a motion that we approve the consent agenda seconded all those in favor aye aye all those opposed motion carries five zero moving on to information items 6.1 policy g b e b b staff conduct with students this is the
041first read in Miss Richards we have a guest for this so uh president Schultz members of The Board District administration is proposing changes to policy GBE and this is the staff conduct with students to ensure that we provide the best information possible we've asked Jennifer McClellan to join us she's a member of our legal counsel she is here as a resource and I did want to say that a couple of comments and questions came back and I have shared those with Jennifer Madam president members of the governing board and District cabinet thank you for letting me be here tonight um I want to give you a little bit of history about how this policy was developed if that would be all right um so Higley unified has been applied and is not currently transitioning to
042the trusts model policies the Arizona risk retention trust model policies but this policy comes from that body of work and it was created by two attorneys who have represented your District in the past their names are Chris Walker and Dave Pioli and they work with the Primary Law Firm that defends school districts when school districts are sued as a part of sexual abuse and molestation cases so this policy was very specifically developed to try to outline behaviors that in their experience when litigating those horrific cases are signs or warning lights regarding a potential inappropriate behavior I have listened to the governing board meetings at which you had considered and reviewed this concern and I do share I do share the notion that some of these things taken in isolation might not be a terrible thing
043so for instance it says that they may not confide in a student on a personal and Private Matter while there may be an occasion where a teacher would say you know I'm sorry your parents are getting divorced my parents also got divorced and that would be sharing personal information however that's not going to subject objectively that is not going to subject a teacher to discipline or reporting or any of those things because it's inappropriate however in my career we've had to discipline and terminate teachers and move them before the state board when they were sharing personal information about themselves such as their own sex lives or the things like things of that nature where they were group chatting with children and were listening to the students share about their inappropriate relations with other peers and
044were then sharing about what happened to them when they were younger things like that so I do think that the policy itself is a good risk prevention procedure for you all to consider one of the board members had raised two specific points and I did reach out to the right Walker and Pioli firm to ask them about those items the first item was the one I mentioned inviting a student to confide in a staff member on a staff member on a personal or Private Matter unless it was a counselor um I do think that what Mr Paoli had said was that he didn't think it precluded a teacher from making General inquiries about how a student is doing nor does it mean that a teacher has to turn away from a student if the student
045volunteers personal information so the specific language is meant to prohibit a teacher from trying to elicit that information from the students so that's the first question and the the second uh Point raised prior to the board meeting was the phrase peer-like language and behavior and again I think this is similar to us teacher sharing a student a story with a child that might be personal in nature you're going to have to look at the totality of the circumstances when determining if that teacher should or shouldn't be subject to discipline and I should be saying staff member I'm saying teacher but I do mean any employee um so for instance um you know if in the lunchroom a teacher calls a student bra and says stop flexing you know this is the limit of my knowledge
046of current speech right thank you um but you know it that's not gonna they're not going to be called out for doing that specifically um however that trying to fit in with the peers um is a concern from the from the defense posture so that's what I would like to say about this matter um I know this is up for a first read so you all are welcome to give input and I'm happy to answer any questions thank you presidentials I just wanted to say thank you because those were my two questions specifically um the reason I guess for me that it was the biggest concern was because I've had students who had changed in Behavior social emotional Behavior I.E I suspected they were depressed um and then having those conversations because we see them
047more than the counselors do we see those changes they often won't say things to the counselor and because of my taking the time to be like hey things look different I've had kids who have had plans I've had things in place and we as teachers and staff we have policies that we have to follow once these things are established so that was my biggest concern so hearing that obviously makes me feel more comfortable in terms of the ability for teachers to still engage with their students still make their students feel safe and welcome while obviously making sure that we we create parameters to make sure that they are not essentially grooming which is what all of those lead to so thank you president Schultz [Music] Mrs McLennan um did I say that properly yes you
048did thank you perfect um what about when let's say a student sends an inappropriate selfie to a teacher that's unsolicited what happens in that case how is the teacher protected that's a good question so this policy is meant to control the conduct of staff not students so that would be addressed through your student discipline policies your student code of conduct but certainly if a staff member receives an inappropriate communication from a student they should report that to their building Administration so that that building Administration can take action and that is the way in which the staff member would be protected by telling their administration of the concern and is that verbiage that we could add to the policy to to allow teachers to to know what steps to take when situations like that occur so
049that they're not in trouble so so they have clear guidelines as to what to do in those situations certainly I do think that might be a better point to raise with the next policy that you're going to talk about which is jbef that's also on your agenda maybe the third policy yeah so item 7.2 might more appropriate be there because that's the area where it talks about social media and cell phone use um this is Reese thank you is there something and maybe Mr Walker can answer part of this too is there training that we have our staff go through regarding grooming um behaviors and things like that sure I'm president Schultz board members the staff does receive boundary expectation training as well as things like Title IX and inappropriate conduct based on the governing
050board guidelines okay is there is that's a required training yes it is okay I was just wondering if there was anything regarding that type of training that would be best also listed in the policy or if it's required training maybe that's just not necessary um so I just wanted to double check on that Mrs Anderson Jim question yes thank you presidentials um I was I'm glad this came forward I brought this forward I think about a year ago you may have been in the room um there were some additions I I would like to recommend um for the sentence at the top or in the middle it says all Personnel employed by the district are expected to relate to students of the district in a manner that maintains social and moral patterns of behavior consistent
051with Community standards and acceptable professional conduct and I didn't know if we could or I'd like to request that we add state and federal laws to make it to me it sounds more serious and crystal clear about the behavior and then you could also the next paragraph down again it talks about ethical or Professional Standards you know expectations of the district governance but if we could again ad based off of state and federal laws Madam president miss Anderson certainly those those changes are legally acceptable so um also um is it in the third paragraph We have relationships between staff members and students that include dating courtship or romantic involvement can we not add grooming as I would like to add grooming because you'd like to have I'm sorry I couldn't quite hear you oh I'm
052sorry what you couldn't hear me yes is it possible to add in the third paragraph in addition to dating courtship and romantic involvement to add the term grooming as another Behavior or pattern that would be unacceptable relationship no we don't have a state law right now regarding grooming I understand that I've looked it up and I'm hoping one day we will but um but we when when people behave in such a way they call it grooming it is and I do understand based on definition I mean you can go through and look up according to the Cambridge Dictionary the criminal activity of becoming friends with a child in order to try to persuade the child to have a sexual relationship another definition an act or an instance of engaging in behaviors or practices intended to
053gradually condition or emotionally manipulate a victim over time as through friendship gifts flattery Etc in order to entrap the person in a sexually abusive or predatory relationship and then I I'm for sure I would assume this this policy would would want to cover that behavior in those interactions is that the same as courtship does that fall under courtship or right not previously yeah yeah so I'm Madam president miss Anderson I'm looking through quickly just what state law says about this and it says specifically that grooming behavior is not a criminal conduct until you know but could you reference it within here um yes you could I think perhaps the way to do it would be to state that maybe towards the end of the policy that these behave engaging in behaviors such as those listed
054above constitutes grooming and would be cause for discipline would that language along those lines okay so I think it should go below um the list of the one through twenty thank you I appreciate that and thank you for helping me understand um my question with the list of behaviors that we shot teacher shown out engage in I struggled with number five social socializing with the student outside of school or a school activity um games um or dances when we're chaperoning like we're we're engaging and they're so happy to ask me to talk to at times so I don't know if you can this might be like you explained with the other examples it's obviously based on the situation so um I would read that and be like okay well I guess I'm not going to
055talk to kids at the game um so I didn't know if there's a better way to State it or or if you can help us understand if that's how it went off with Madam president members of the government board and Miss Anderson what you might consider doing is saying socializing with a student out of school or a school activity when such an activity is directed at the individual student with that so in other words socialize in a group situation is something that you might be comfortable with but if it's directed towards an individual student similar to paragraph six that says giving or receiving a personal gift that singles out individual students we could we could add that if you'd like so you're saying it would be more of a personal intent to go to something
056for that student it's part of my understanding you okay again I do I do think it's fine how it is um in terms of the totality of the same the circumstances determining I mean if you know if for instance if you have uh teachers who are family friends with other teachers and they get together at their home they're certainly socializing no one's going to be disciplined over that so um but we can make it more specific if you want it to be yeah because I I'm concerned with that as well because um I mean what if they run into each other at a grocery store they might attend the same church um there's you know we all live in in the same town I mean not every teacher but there's a lot of teachers that
057live within the district too so if they run into a student I don't want them to get in trouble for talking to a student at a church or at a grocery store so I'd like to be able to make that more clear so I had brought this up in our initial meeting with Mrs Richards about that and then also you know the personal gifts um to students and started such as praise you know um giving a kid something for achieving a high score those type of things um and this is a policy and it's not you know you can't do these things anymore so I don't want our teachers to think that they can't give kids gifts and and I mean 99.9 of everybody knows what's appropriate not appropriate but this is a policy that
058we have in place to protect us and their and the children and everything but we don't want teachers to feel they can't talk to kids and they can't our staff I should say excuse me can't talk to kids correct listen and and that you know they can give teach give kids gifts or if they have a star student who has a musical performance an administrator could go to that certainly and support the student in a group setting correct Madam president I do think that's correct yes thank you so presidential Mrs Reese I think too I think in my opinion I think we're trying to read into the words a little too much because Mrs Anderson everything you brought up there is a school activity so I think people would want you as a teacher to
059socialize with the student section at a football game things like that because it is a school activity now where I would become concerned is if a group of kids went out to IHOP after that football game and you went with them or met them there then to me that that's where I would read into that like you certainly have business at the football game at the dance and interacting with the kids there kind of the afterwards then any staff member really wouldn't have any business being there obviously unless you're with your own child that's with a group of people and things like that and I think that's what we just have to take into consideration like the context of that of what are the circumstances same with Mrs Van Hook with um Church well I
060would hope their parents are going to church with them and they all know you that the staff members at the church and they they should know each other as well and it it goes beyond talking you know like oh hey how are you in the grocery store we're not expecting our staff to turn around and run the other way because there's a student and they should be afraid of getting in trouble um this is saying that there's intent like there's intent to go hang out with students at something other than a school activity so I think it's the intent of it not an accidental encounter and your families at the IHOP and their families that you're the students are there hey how's it going and then you just kind of tend to your own things
061you know instead of pulling up a chair sitting with them having conversation and and kind of involving yourself with them that's when things could get concerning and this is to protect our teachers our staff and and the students it's protection all the way around if we have set guidelines and Mrs Schultz with gifts I would hope that there would be the expectation I I look at it from that whole K-12 that if someone did something really well that the teacher is rewarding them because of a certain expectation instead of again kind of reading into it going well it's their birthday I'm giving them a birthday gift and they're only giving a certain student a birthday gift like that's that's things we should stay away from but educational academic art theater all those types of achievements
062I wouldn't recommend necessarily a gift but some type of recognition some type of like you said award things like that I think is perfectly acceptable and and you're not doing it in a private setting versus giving something someone very personal so it's hard because like Miss McClellan said any of these individually might not necessarily be concerning but when there's the intent I think is when then we have to take that situational and look at it thank you for clarifying I I just wanted the language to be a little bit more clear because I can be misread and misinterpreted and that was my only but thank you for making helping me understand it better because I read that completely different and if I did it surely I'm not the only one well that's right and I
063think that's the other thing we want to you know tell our teachers and staff and kids you know that it's okay or that you know please yes yeah go to these things support your kids you know talk to them at football games incentivize if you know you have a kid that is struggling and you want them to pass a certain test then it's okay to to give an incentive or award for those kids it's the intent where we'd have an issue and the policy is overall to protect everyone and not micromanage the board so the language I added there for item five would be socializing with a student outside of school or a school activity that's so as to single out an individual student thank you president Schultz oh gosh I'm sorry I'm messing up
064your name again um being an attorney is you know like words matter when it comes to laws so if if it's intent then we want to be sure to say that in in the verbiage to make it as clear as possible um and I mean even with the gifts if it's you know maybe adding you know for educational purposes or um some sort of verbiage to just specifies versus having it so vague um another uh concern I had was for number one um about flirtatious communication and commenting on students dress so I know you know a lot of kids come to school with cute outfits on or whatever and um you know teachers can say like hey your your outfit's cute so does that mean that won't be allowed um Madam president Ms Van Hook
065I do think that's an important point to be raising because again if you take any of these individually um you know that you're going to have to look at the context in which the statement is made so telling a kindergarten boy who comes to school that you look you love this you know ball cap and he looks great today is certainly not going to be inadvisable but telling a male high school student that the outfit that he has on um you know is uh very you know something that the teacher really appreciates it's not that's going to be strange right to the high school boy so I do think it's going to be the context of in which the statement's made that would be actionable or not actionable the word flirtatious before the communication I
066think is important so telling a student that they look look great today isn't flirtatious any other questions or comments thank you Mrs McClellan of course moving on to action items 7.1 I move that we approve policy jica student attire second read seconded questions comments concerns president Schultz Mrs Van Hook I I do have a lot of concerns about um the updated policy um the fact that we did remove um midriff I I think is is a problem and that would apply to both um males and females having kids come to school in a tube top or um you know boys wearing you know their football jerseys that are cut to where their midriff is showing I think those are things that um that we need to consider um it's it is a distraction um and
067it's it's not only a distraction to other students but it is a distraction to staff as well I believe that it also puts staff in a situation where um they don't feel comfortable dress coding um we when we have a policy we want the policy in force but a lot of cases staff is hesitant on enforcing those policies because of the fear of being accused of sexual harassment or you know for a teacher to say I'm sorry your shirt isn't appropriate especially a female teacher to a male student or a male teacher to a female student and that puts our staff in a really bad situation um I'd like to read a statement that I wrote um some people believe that a dress code sexualizes children when in fact it is the opposite asking kids
068to wear proper clothing doesn't make them feel bad about their bodies it teaches them to have self-respect that there's a place for different types of clothing and school is a place where they have to dress appropriately I'm not saying let them wear uniforms or we follow a fingertip rule when evaluating the length of a skirt a top or shorts but there needs to be standard which apply to both girls and boys kids shouldn't be allowed to wear tops that reveal their stomachs all the way to their chest their butt cheeks hanging out and their chest bras or their underwear being exposed this should apply to both sexes yes we all have the same body parts but that doesn't mean we should all walk around naked whatever policy we decide to go with we need to
069ensure that it is strictly enforced we know that there are students who leave the house one way and change at school when our schools enforce the policy it also helps parents to be able to tell their kids that they can't wear something to school so it makes it easier for parents to be able to enforce it at home too that's all Mrs recent um I think we've made some progress we had a lot of good conversation we talked about the difficulty in buying clothes that everyone would agree on things like that what's the trends and everything I can't support this policy at this time because it is too vague I don't want um it's too hard to say we're significantly interferes with districts ability to maintain orders such as disrupting school work um when we
070had more specifics it also depended on the teacher and let's be real when we're talking dress codes we're talking middle through High School most of the these issues aren't with our k6 so these are kids who change classes and have multiple teachers and what one teacher may find acceptable another one wouldn't so a student could literally go through five class periods in a day and in their sixth period they could be dress coded and they're going what I've worn this all day the same way I didn't have a coat on I didn't have anything and to me that sends the wrong message to our students that because it it was their last hour teacher that may have decided it was something that was disruptive to that class and maybe that's the only class that was
071disruptive too that's very possible however I agree I think it's too vague um I want an appropriate dress code that meets the needs of our student the needs of our community where students can express themselves where they can be comfortable where um but where they know the expectations and that the expectations are clear and for me the most important is that we have consistent enforcement and to me like I said it is it is too big and so I have a difficult time supporting the um this particular policy in that fashion as Miss Van Hook referred to then you can have a student who if it's a female student who was addressed by a male student or a male student addressed by a female staff they're picking on me they no one else said anything
072only this teacher said something and maybe it is a staff member that a student might have a little conflict with we that we're all human it happens and maybe that's the staff member that addresses it um and you talk to the other staff members or teachers that the other that student had and they're like well I didn't see anything wrong with it I didn't see anything wrong with it I think it just sets us up for having too inconsistent enforcement Mrs Reese what would you like to see added to it I mean that's a great question I think we just I think we were way too specific to begin with don't get me wrong and I I don't want teachers to have to two-finger rule is that thick enough is it put your fingertips is
073it long enough we staff has enough to do other than do regulation in that fashion um and I I don't have an answer for that I I honestly don't have an answer specifically I just read it as it is and how do you enforce that consistently well when I look at exposes where the undergarments or undergarments area that's all very specific um I don't know like you said you don't know what to add so if we don't know what to add then where do we go from here Madam president sure but I was having a conversation yes yeah may I offer a suggestion yes please so your prior language that when again this language comes from uh the work of the four law firms that developed the Arizona risk retention trusts student attire policy um
074the prior language States interfere forbid interferes with or disrupts the educational environment environment or educational objectives so if Miss Reese is comfortable with that prior language which is a little bit less specific you could sub out that paragraph I'm still trying to think how I mean I I mean here we have previous teachers how do you enforce that based on this language what would you guys and and again can Mrs McClellan give her professional legal opinion on that for us sure you know again there exists that in your existing policy that you forbid students from wearing something that interferes with or disrupts the educational environment or educational objectives that the language that's proposed says it has to significantly interfere with their ability to maintain order I I do think that Ms Reese's point is that
075address codes in any way that they're written could be applied um with uh without fairness let's say and that's going to be an issue no matter how tight we make the language that's an issue of how you enforce the policy not how it's written so I do think the language in that first bullet is more specific than what you have but if what you have you're happy with you can go back to that I guess I'm referring to in our previous policy there was a little more specific items as to what what was considered okay and what was not and I would just offer all also to the board that the the dress code policy that you are considering here is not the final say as to how the how the administration is going to
076enforce that so they're going to take the policy that the board creates and they're going to write it up into your student handbook and potentially create a regulation that you all would review so for instance I've been just checking we have 10 districts that have adopted this and a few of them have created very specific regulations that you know get very detailed about what types of things are and are not prohibited so for instance in one District I guess if I saw a regulation that would matter and so for instance in one District um they say that clothing fabric must cover all private body parts and Under Armor can't the same language that you have and that exposes about the Wares underground it's very specific students May wear clothing and jewelry that display religious messages
077Footwear such as shoes sandals or boots may be worn in the school building Footwear must be safe and non-destructive to school property clothing may not cover a student's face so it gets more specific in the regulation the all of your policies are designed to do that to have this this sort of broad goals that you all adopt as a board to lead your district and then the administration can work on some of these more nuanced calls so to your point Ms Reese you know we don't want to have teachers be measuring two fingers to determine if the strap or we don't want someone walking around with a yardstick to determine if somebody's skirt's too short but um but the regulation could address some of these in interpretation concerns that you're having um president Schultz sorry
078Mrs Anderson was asking to speak next and then and then we'll get to Miss Universe sorry I just didn't want decision without input um thank you okay I um I decided to write my position on this policy um in an attempt to keep my points focused and to manage my speaking time better um these public meetings are the only time the five of us can speak to each other without breaking the law so we often have to put together sophisticated Clairvoyant thoughts but many times we get wordy choppy or off topic so please bear with me as I read first I want to address some misinformation being shared regarding statements I made about this policy at the May 10th board meeting there may be individuals here tonight or listening online who are concerned about what
079they were incorrectly told about what I said in an email that was sent the writer said quote I suggested that male teachers struggle to maintain appropriate behaviors with female students due to the attire of said students end quote and that I have been quote the topic of discussion amongst our community of parents and students since it happened end quote so here's the transcript of what I said you can go listen to it it is you can click transcript on YouTube and it'll put it out there right there for you I said professional attire is how do we ex how do we expect teachers to dress so no teachers aren't walking around with midriff showing and they're definitely not walking around with their back and hanging out of their shorts but I will agree that it's
080terribly difficult to find clothes that cover my body which I have been left to dressing like back in my days when I was a tomboy everything I wear is sport shorts and a t-shirt because the only thing that I can find that fits well this is going to be a difficult conversation because there are going to be disagreement agreements on how we raise our children and how we find what is appropriate for our children and we are trying to make decisions for other people's children what I want to point out are the statements I've heard from teachers where I teach and how the adults feel uncomfortable with the clothes and the body parts they are seeing on these children so we need to make sure we take that into account when we make these decisions
081whenever males and females are seeing girls with very short short uh shirts and very short shorts and their busts are busting out I'll stop there but that's the point to understand teacher professional attire so when we talk about what is professional Tire let's go look at businesses and let's see outside the schools what's going on in businesses and what is their attire if we're going to dress in professional Tire also how do the teachers feel and what are their thoughts about some of the dress they are seeing around the school especially when we have had instances with behavior between teachers and a teacher and a student as an issue before not once did I state or suggest that male teachers struggle to maintain inappropriate appropriate behaviors in fact my entire approach is to is addressing
082the distraction of certain student attired towards females and males I use the terms adults teachers females and males and we have a policy on the agenda tonight addressing staff conduct with students students and teachers will seek I'm sorry students and teachers will seek to distract and gain attention not only through behavior and verbal cues but also with their attire in fact there is language in that policy addressing teacher comments on student attire so moving on I am not in support of the revised language of policy jica I do not support the removal of the terms exposes midriffs exposes the chest and exposes the buttocks I'm going to State my reasoning not based on my feelings and beliefs but rather focus on what the purpose of our school district is from our website from our mission
083statement we Empower students to be responsible citizens with the knowledge skills and work ethic required for success in their future endeavors we are an Innovative District that prepares learners for Limitless opportunities our core values are Integrity connections learning centered and accountability no matter where you look on our strategic plan the vision is teaching and learning Student Success I would assume that most parents Guardian students attending the Higley schools want students State mandated time in school to not be wasted and to be utilized for preparing students to be more knowledgeable critical thinkers confident and prepared for college and or whatever the next steps are After High School but not just those attributes most want students to be competitive capable and comparable for colleges and careers they want scholarship money in which much of that funding is
084based on Merit to achieve and acquire such things takes commitment dedication quality staff focus and removal of distractions students have to want to succeed and want to be at school there is much prodding and cheering as they progress because for a lot of students school is not fun it's not interesting or it's not even a priority there are strategies parents and Educators use to motivate students and help them learn without knowing they are learning to find Value and content and find Value in themselves one strategy and this is not only utilized in schools it is also in most workplaces is dressed for success there are studies and articles on this even Scientific American quoted in States the quote the old advice to dress for your job you want not the job you have may have
085roots and more than simply how others perceive you many studies show that the clothes you wear can affect your mental and physical performance thank you when we uh but we don't need to hear other people tell us this because all of us have experienced it when we go to interviews or job events or formal outings we dress in a particular way when we want to relax be disconnected from responsibility and feel free of Demands redress in a different way there is a time and place for Styles and specific attire our original policy does not mandate that students dress in suits and slacks and body length skirts long sleeve shirts or turtlenecks it's 100 100 allows for current Styles comfortable clothes and comfortable shoes to be worn I went to the website for male and female
086Junior and adult clothing on Walmart Target Tilly's Dillards Macy's h m and Old Navy and the majority of clothing offered is well within our current dress code policy and yes school is a professional setting it is a job life prep training students can earn money for meeting and exceeding bench benchmarks in the form of scholarships and I was given the data for scholarships um of course it's buried in all my paperwork but we tends of millions of dollars this is what students are striving for in our district sorry I'm passionate if I'm yelling I'm not yelling I apologize all right also our current dress code is appropriate for our learning of our current dress code is appropriate for a learning environment with reduced distractions and not just attraction distractions but also the destruction of feeling
087pressure to dress provocatively of being judged of being pressured to fit in pressure to meet popularity trends that could instill shame and it reduces academic distractions for teachers the current policy is clear on expectations and reduces subjective assessments and strives for consistency across classrooms and sites like Mrs Reese was bringing up our current dress code enables students to exercise self-respect self-control and discipline as a parent and teacher I would be okay if my child left High School not knowing what a chemistry mole is but I but learned in practice attributes of self-respect self-control and discipline in addition to being knowledgeable and a critical thinker these attributes set people apart from others and make them more reliable confident and valuable I'm almost done I think it would be safe to assume that if our district was
088listed as one of the top 100 schools in the nation we would be Beyond proud of everyone involved and will not only Embrace that Accolade but we would shout it from the rooftops so what I did is I used the U.S news best high school rankings and since this is a source widely used across our nation I use it to identify their top 100 Schools and then I kid you not I looked up every single one of their dress code policies this is taking me taking me weeks and I have 60 pages of information from every single dress code from every single of the top 100 schools in the nation and um of The 100 there were only three that had a very like dress appropriately foot and left it up to whatever that whatever
089that was very very beyond this vague all of the others and there were uh several others I believe three no more than three there were 14 that actually use um uniforms um and many of them the dress codes far exceed what we have for expectations of how students stress and some of them I was like good Lord what are they going to wear ours I feel is Extremely Loud compared to the others those are schools at the top 100 only three had dress codes that were not straight up do please don't wear this and don't do that and then then their little intro statements were fantastic of explaining why professionalism self-control discipline you're representing our district look professional where a lot of the statements Additionally the language in the amended policy is counterproductive and will
090not work and let me show you what I mean under Section A the fourth bullet down the last sentence it states towards the end however undergarments may not be worn as clothing thank goodness right well that will not work because there are popular clothing items that are available as both shirts tops they're also in the undergarments all right per the same websites that I mentioned earlier the following items are identified in both shirts and tops and they're also under undergarments I don't even know this word I don't even heard a Brando a tube top undergarment and undershirts a camisole a brownie crop tank halter top seamless tiny tank and a cropped candy and I just stopped there because I was tired of looking at underwear Angie your own little kids honestly and I did this
091and I looked under again male and female course males aren't going to have a lot of these items but I looked under both how are the teachers going to be able to determine whether that's an undergarment or an article of clothing that you would buy under regular attire so if we allow the exposure midriffs which a lot of these are these undergarments slash maybe tops then we are creating an enormous amount of distraction for teachers from teaching as they have to try to police whether the tops are undergarments or not which should absolutely they should not have to do and then the likelihood of consistency across classrooms and sites is slim to none even without trying to determine what type of clothes are being worn as Mrs restated in May how much midriff will be
092allowed teachers should absolutely not have to determine that and again the likelihood of consistency across classrooms and sites will be slim to them and same with exposure of Chess and buttocks it's the same per my stated reasonings again I am not in support of the revised language of policy jica I do not support the removal of the terms exposes midriffs exposes chest and exposes buttocks the language and the whole agenda applies to and is inclusive to males and females and should be enforced consistently and equitably for males and females males need a dress under the same expectations and not show their midriff buttocks and expose their exposed chests this is valid for transitioning students as well after speaking to multiple school principals which I went out and talked to them statistically as they stated across
093principles it is females who violate the dress code with overexposure more often and it's the males that violate the dress code with inappropriate content on their clothes more often and as language States you can't have sexually suggestive content on clothes but we're going to allow girls to dress provocatively and you better believe it I Googled specific terms what is provocative dress what is immodest dress and crop tops and tight clothes every time and you Google professional tire and go to images it's not turtlenecks and long sleeve shirts shirts and skirts to the ground it's as we are sitting in this room I recommend we add the language back in and maintain an academic and professional environment with fidelity inconsistency thank you for ladies thank you I have a question Mr Anderson when you said you
094researched districts did you look at the other schools around districts around us and what they've adopted because I know for a fact that Gilbert has adopted the same policy that this is this policy and the other districts around us including Queen Creek Mrs McClung you also said that I'm sorry I said they're not looking okay um they said you said other districts have adopted this and legally speaking this is a policy that then would have regulations after that so we're not asking teachers to like with two fingers or say how what an undergarment is there'd be regulations that Mrs Mr Walker and our our cabinet would put in place this is a policy that we're adopting that is a broader policy correct Madam president that's correct you're creating the policy statement for the district and
095then the District staff would create the implementation which could include a procedure or regulation and speaking with Mr Walker last week he mentioned that we would do this across the board everybody would be on the same page correct and all the policies would all the policy would reflect across the entire District president Schultz members of the board that's always the goal with policy that we created District policy not an individual site policy there would be some site-based nuances for example HTA with uniforms that would be a different function within the policy but the policy would apply to the whole school district so I realize we all have different beliefs and passions and what is this it's a policy that we're creating that then would we would entrust our cabinet to regulate and not our teachers
096or individuals or anything like that or inappropriate behavior um and I trust our cabinet would do that and regulate that across the district what would it matter if the languages in the policy or in the regulation and if I understand the board members do not have to approve a regulation so we have to be in trust that that regulation is written as as a majority of the board would hope that it would be to to take the burden not the teachers and to be crystal clear and bring back coverage to the student body so Madam president members of the governing board if it's your desire to add back into the policy that midriffs are covered that's an easy fix to this you could either add the language in that you had previously or just put
097the word exposes the where's midriff comma undergarments that's one fix I do have another District that defined midriff a little more specifically let me try to find it it's kyrene's so they defined the fabric clothing fabric must cover all body part let's see clothing must cover the entire midriff with material that covers the front back and sides so that's in their regulation you could put that language in your policy if that's what you wanted to be in terms of policy making to be more specific can you repeat that again for me sure so this language would say clothing must have covered the entire midriff with material that covers the front back and sides you already have suggested clothing must cover all private body parts which I think covers you know that's what I'm confused about
098where it's very specific in here so I'm I'm having trouble realizing how we're not specific because it's entirely that entire paragraph is very specific president Schultz I do like the wording that says to cover front sides and back um that provides a little more um coverage there and more specificity but I also want to piggyback on what Michelle said our strategic plan says to make kids career career and college ready and we can't do that by allowing kids to whatever wear whatever their they want they need to be able to um fit within our strategic plan if we are going to keep pushing the Strategic plan and and working on it and ensuring that you know it's district-wide and being enforced then we need to ensure that that that our dress code matches what we
099are trying to do for our district I have a question what profession are we trying to fit them into with the dress So I hear you say dress professional well but if I own a comic book store I'm going to wear a comic book shirt if I'm a model I'm going to wear the latest fashions if I own my own business or I own a boutique I'm going to wear that as well so I don't understand what profession we're molding them into that they can't wear the style that is right now I mean like I said I'm not asking for them to or for us to say you know go naked wear your undergarments I don't understand why we're regulating so strictly for profession and how that matters uh no matter what career field it
100is if you show up not dressed appropriately there's a pretty good chance that you're not going to be considered for that position um we have standards for our teachers if our teachers showed up to interview dress like some of our children in the district I can guarantee you they wouldn't be hired so if we are prepping our children to be College and Career ready then they need to learn to be able to have self-respect and that doesn't include showing off their body parts and you know what sometimes adults have to be adults and I know it was mentioned to have a student council so they can put their input but as I've said about other things before if we allow children to make these decisions we end up with what we have and and adults
101have to be adults and as as parents it makes our job at home easier when we know the school's going to enforce the policies and it makes our job easier to say no you can't wear that to school but when we when when our schools aren't it's not clear and we don't have a proper policy then it makes it harder for us at home to go no you're not leaving the house like that because oh all the other kids are wearing it so we are in the education business and that is the purpose for us and we need to ensure that we are providing and an environment where kids come to learn and concentrate on academics and not a popularity contest or who dresses what or who wears what Madam president I'm sorry I'm sorry
102I just one one last thing um even even in my my oldest went to Charter even there obviously Charter has a uniform and they have a strict dress code but my daughter left the house one day in a black shirt while black shirts aren't allowed I had to drive all the way to school to take her a red shirt or a gray shirt you know because black shirts weren't allowed um so that what did that teach my daughter mom had to leave work to come and and you know bring me something that I you know that so I can change um and it didn't happen again um so we need to ensure that we're doing what is best for the kids and as a parent as as an adult if kids like us all the
103time we're not doing our jobs so that's all Madam president so I think um obviously this policy as it stands we're going to have to keep doing those types of things because clearly we have differing opinions um I think what is important for us here on the board considering we are five different individuals who have five different perspectives on things and we are representing a community of individuals who have different perspectives um there are a couple things that I would at least like to dress or pose as questions to those of you who are uncomfortable with the policy that's in front of us a lot of you talk about there's inconsistency currently um and so if we keep the current policy I don't really understand how that gets rid of what clearly is an inconsistent
104problem right your argument is this isn't consistent and the policy we have in place is inconsistent I think part of that nature or part of the reason it's inconsistent is because we have a differing group of of moral standards and so when we're trying to create a set of quote-unquote moral standards we have to be we have to be reflective and look within ourselves to remove where we're standing from and look at what the intent of the policy is and so ultimately at the end of the day our intent is to ensure the educational environment right and so currently as as Ms Van Hook expressed what we currently have in Place Learning seems to be going on just fine right um I recognize that there are differing opinions or differing moral standards what I would
105choose to wear I'm not personally comfortable wearing certain things and the individuals around me may also have varying levels of of what is comfortable or what is quote moral we have to be very careful when we represent a community of differing morals to set quote-unquote moral standards because who gets to decide when it comes to some of these moral standards our Focus needs to be the impact it has on education so I recognize the difficulty with that and we are in a difficult position to try to create some of these things I think there are potential problems when we get overly specific because at the end of the day we can't think of certain types of scenarios until they happen um I I also think it's important to recognize that the kids the school our
106kids attend is very different than the school each of us attended as adults because things are very much have changed and that's part of social norms we constantly change as a society um and if you look around and I recognize that there are still individuals who have problems and ultimately within your home you get to decide what these things are I don't think it's fair for us to say that we as schools need to help you parent because you're having a hard time creating established boundaries within your home in all of these types of things and I say that again as a parent um and that's a hard sanding but I don't think it's fair to put education in that position because again your moral standards May differ than somebody else's moral standards and we're
107constantly setting people up for failure essentially and I I struggle with that ultimately what I look around at is I look at how are our schools currently doing and I look at the policy that's in place and in my opinion I feel like this policy is reflective of what we have kind of settled on as a community in terms of functioning day in and day out because the policy we have in place is not strictly adhered to because it was written in 2001 and so we have over the course of of 20 years kind of changed and morphed as we as a society have changed and morphed and I think that aspect is important because again we're representing a community of individuals and learning is still done it it still happens on a frequent basis
108and we are doing remarkably well here in Higley and so I I guess my question to those who are are not necessarily here yet that when it comes to what decisions it is that you're trying to make I guess my hope for you is to keep in mind that you have your own set of things and that may differ but all of us have the same goal of keeping the educational environment as successful as it can be and right now that seems to be going on just fine all of us have received a number of emails we've had several people speak here today with respect to the dress code and a lot of them have talked about these are the things that they're seeing and why that makes them uncomfortable and I understand and I
109respect everybody's stance and what they deem to be moral or appropriate Etc but yet learning is still happening just fine right um and that's important I also wish to challenge some of the adults as an individual who spent their entire career teaching high school students and we all you know to get to this age had to be a teenager teenagers like people in general are really good at being able to recognize in this scenario this is appropriate in that scenario it's not um you can have kids who would dress what you deem as morally appropriate are straight A students always do their homework and everything else and when they leave here they're still not prepared to do things you have some kids who barely got by with that D average and honestly the conversations we
110had I was like I don't know how you are even here sometimes with some of the things that they're doing and they go on to be overwhelmingly successful I I think we tend to miss the mark when we try to focus on what is important to us rather than looking at what is the goal and the intent of the policy I struggle to see how in an environment in which and I recognize why for example the focus tends to be on tube tops which again disproportionately impacts women I don't see how you can create appropriate language that a would be consistent because as we've already discussed that's not happening and part of that reason again is varying moral so that's a struggle with respect to the cabinet members and how they create some of these
111regulations on these types of things I think it's important to be reflective of what our kids are capable of how they are doing these types of things and with respect to distractions and the like um as a parent especially I demand more of my children in that I don't expect that they're going to exist in a world in which they will not be distracted by things and I don't expect that they are going to be able to function if we create as safe as a bubble as I think is appropriate in what we have in our household because the second they leave here and they go to other parts of the Community College job Etc all of these things that's going to happen and so if our goal is to prepare them for things Beyond
112I don't see how a policy that is reflective of what currently is happening creates anything less than the success that Higley is currently dealing with presidential race Mrs Wade and I I hear you I do um but the one thing that concerns me is and I'm not trying to put words in your mouth so just as I heard it is learning still happening so it doesn't matter that our current policy is not being followed so policy not being followed learning can still happen and that's okay so I mean that's what I heard so I'm not trying to say that was your intent I agree and I'm not trying to say anything I'm not trying to make a moral statement everyone has different morals everyone has different perspectives um I hear what everyone's saying regarding professional
113attire um and I'm not even asking for that I think that there needs to be set boundaries set expectations and with anything any parts of our lives there there are rules whether it's what we wear um what we say what we do their their rules we have to follow and um part of that educational journey is testing those boundaries as they should be because that's how we learn is testing the boundaries and understanding the boundaries um and I for me I there there is nothing specific in this policy um it is all very much so open to interpretation um I didn't go look on websites to see what's crossed into categories but it is all very open to interpretation and again policies made to protect the district to protect our students and to protect our
114our families and I also think about the conversation with a principal or a Dean an assistant principal of having a conversation with a parent where someone felt that what they were wearing was inappropriate and the parent says what's wrong with you it's fine how does that conversation go because it's so vague and saying I I just don't understand what my student was wearing how did it cause and I hear Miss McClellan say we can change some of the wording but what we have here how does it cause a significant disruption because I don't see that as a disruption as a parent and that's a difficult conversation for our principals and our Deans to be able to have because there is nothing concrete then we do get into morals and and what I may feel is
115okay and what you may feel is okay um and so the the policy I think needs to I'm not asking for lockdown specifics I I do think it needs to have more guidelines I do think it has to have more specifics I like the recommendation I am I do trust our um our Administration with a regulation um but and I know the board doesn't approve regulations but I would I would like to know where that stands and quite honestly if it can be a regulation why could it not be in the in the policy if we're going to say this is acceptable and this isn't um oh sorry I was just going to respond to correct what it was my intent was by that statement in that we already have a dress code in place
116but you see female students and male students with midriff exposed and I I find that to be a hard thing to consistently Express right to consistently enforce and what is in place currently in terms of how we informally enforce said dress code across the board in my opinion seems to be reflective of the policy that's in front of us in that the policy talks about essentially genitalia or areas that would be covered so the buttocks with which you were talking about as an individual who developed early there was very little shirts that I could wear in which I did not have cleavage exposed and the idea that you routinely had staff members who would comment on it made me feel all kinds of ways for things that I can literally cannot control um and so
117I I think the idea of other people being uh uncomfortable or distracted is not the responsibility of the individuals who are living in an existing in their lives in terms of I am not inviting you to do things I have not given consent to do things I'm not showing specific aspects that would get me arrested you know what I mean in terms of of private areas kind of deal I I struggle to uh see how we can create a policy that that does not have the potential to uh create inconsistency when we do certain types of things so I'm not saying I'm against it I'm not saying that I you know I would never support certain things I just from the things that I'm hearing don't hear what those changes would be that fix the
118problems that the three of you are expressing exist with respect to inconsistencies and how it's enforced I I just don't hear where the solution is [Music] um did you so when Mrs McClellan said uh the language that we previously had interferes with or disrupts the educational environment or educational objectives correct is that that we already have in place that's where I've not been happy with that one I mean and that's why we've talked about for several years bringing the dress code back what's currently in place is not great either that's what I'm saying so There's issues with both and how do we merge them and make it um make it right me personally I don't have an issue with spaghetti straps or tank tops that's that me personally I don't I don't have an issue
119with that I don't see that as any overexposure um and so I mean there's parts of both that I like and I don't like um and so I like I said I don't know what the answer was um to be quite honest I mean I'm just going to be honest based on some of our conversation previously I was not expecting a policy this vague to come before us one of the things that concerns me which I mentioned to Mrs Anderson is what other districts have done and the policies they put in place and and Higley being laughed at in a sense that we have such an archaic policy that does [Music] discriminate against women by adding something like a midriff back in this policy was done in 2001 it's 2023 the other surrounding districts around
120us have adopted this and presumably have not had I mean I haven't heard anything I feel like it would have been on go Gilbert or something like that that they have had issues um and I I think this brings us to where we are at and you know covers the private areas the undergarments waistbands all of those things that and letting our district um determine exactly the requirements for that it doesn't discriminate discriminate against women or females with the midriff because it applies to males as well they do not need to and we do not want to see them when I talk to female and male teachers I had conversations with them they don't want to see Exposed Skin in areas on either male or females and as it was stated there are males that
121will come out of sports or whatever and they'll have the half shirts on dress coded go ahead and put on a T-shirt and cover your midriff because it's policy and you fall under that exact same policy you are not special in any way where you can't wear a half shirt or you can wear a half shirt so I don't think it discriminates and if we have an issue with um following up with this policy it was stopped and that's a training that needs to happen and then that needs to be made crystal clear but it's not the policy's fault it's the implementation's fault and I think again like Miss restated it needs to be more clear it's easier to follow it's easier to mandate when we have clear expectations for our staff and for our
122students and for parents I think that's the fairest thing we can do and and I don't think any of us for sure want to hurt or discriminate against any person um in this in this district and and the question regarding um what specific job I don't we're not talking about a specific job we're just talking about a job in general any job whether whatever the dress may be where you have to practice self-control self-respect and discipline um it'll be different across well we're going to teach them because we don't know we don't pull the we don't know where every student's going to go and and not every job is as leaning as other just like every School dress code isn't as like I said we're very less conservative compared to many other school districts but
123we're preparing them to whatever job they go into whether it be very lenient or not either way they can practice self-control because they may though obviously a lot of kids will change jobs it'll go from one way to the other but they'll be prepared either way to say okay I've got self-discipline I have self-control and I can follow the policy of this job whereas the other job was more lenient and that's that's how I've seen if I see it differently I probably I'm coming from a place that there are many different views and morals and what you consider self-control and you know showing your stomach or others might not and I want to don't want to come up with a policy that is based on my moral beliefs my religious beliefs as much as I
124don't want to tell anyone to tell me what to wear and I don't I don't understand the point of self-control and what we're saying as far as as the adding a midriff midriff is just cheat study brush your teeth wash your body there's other things in which they need to eat healthy in which they need to practice self-control but I understand that this is to this policy so lots of things they have to but either way not every job's gonna be the same so they have to be able to be um oh I'm so sorry okay I'm sorry I have no idea where do you start president Schultz Miss McLennan if you have a an issue with not being able to hear please ask Mrs Zimmerman to address us and that and not yell out
125from the audience um did you work with anybody on this updated policy Madam president Ms Van Hook so I was a part of the team of lawyers that created the updated policy this was not a policy that I particularly wrote but I was a part of the team that reviewed them I remember discussion about the changes to the paragraph that Ms Reese is talking about uh so yes and did you work with any any board members or um uh Miss Richards uh so the the proposed language again comes from the model policies that trust created when those were created they were vetted before various board members um and um other administrators Ms Richards was not one of those administrators so I do I do think okay so so the the revised policy was not discussed
126with any board member prior to the meeting oh got it okay thank you I thought you meant generally no it's okay in general what she's saying is across the the state than Miss mclareness lawyers as I mentioned many districts have adopted this policy presidential um we were talking about disproportionately uh discriminating against women this I'm just throwing this question out because I see it all the time is males wearing they've got a t-shirt that have the sides cut out you can see their chest but a male chest isn't viewed as the same as a female test so would that be dress coded because private parts are showing it should be I mean that's that's that's where I'm going is that how that would be viewed because you could see through their shirt um through the
127cutouts um would that be viewed as showing private parts yeah and that that's kind of a thing it's in the policy that we have right now currently but is that going to be viewed as private parts of a mail is yes than a female and that I mean again these are that may be interpreted differently from some people I mean that's fair again so it is very I agree it is very hard when we talk about dress about disproportionately um holding females and males to the same standard um and so that is that's difficult and and I could see on a high school campus that that's not something that would be viewed as a male's private parts being shown and I could see that not being addressed and again in in a concern um chest
128back stump so we we list the body parts um so instead of you know being vague we say Trust Madam president may I again I think I'm looking at your existing student dress standards within the code of conduct that's higley's adopted and it mirrors the language that you have currently clothing must that modestly exposes the chest abdomen midriff genital area or buttocks is not permitted so you could keep that language within your existing policy or I think frankly comparing the apples to the oranges of the new discussion the only piece in the new proposed language that isn't covered is the midriff if you wanted to adopt a recommended change to the policy that is before the board to include clothing must cover the entire midriff with material that covers the front back and sides I
129do think that would get to Ms Reese's point about the male chest I don't think you have to put the word chest in there or the word buttocks or the word genital I think you know I think if you add that that addresses at least some the governing board members concerns it doesn't address all of the issues that you've raised that might evolve out of a dress code but I do think that would address some of your concerns and then you could see if that's amenable to the to the board or not so my suggestion would be for you to add to amend the motion to add the following language clothing must cover the entire midriff with material that covers the front back and sides and then to see if you want to move the
130policy forward or not okay so I don't remember all that you just said but can I just say I'd like to make a motion for all that verbiage to go in there because I can't repeat all that what you would do is say that you moved to amend the motion that's on the floor to add the language as proposed by Council yes I can't remember all that I still can't remember dear can you repeat everything she just said I can say it more slowly so clothing must cover the entire midriff with material that covers the front back and sides correct are you making the motion or who's making the motion okay emotion that we amend the policy to include must cover the entire midriff front back and sides I'm sorry excuse me must cover the
131entire midriff with material that covers the front back and sides a second questions comments concerns my question to the board is how do you expect if we've had this policy in place since 2001 for it to be enforced it never does it never does because we live in Arizona and it is hot and so when our football players do certain things and they come back inside it does not get enforced I understand and I hear where we are coming from I I think it's important for us to be reflective of what is possible to be enforced I have from the top of my shoulders to my hip bone is 22 inches it is a freak torso do you understand how frequently my midriff shows if I don't find shirts that are appropriate and so I'm
132going to be punished from my genetic makeup I find that to be difficult sides and back at what point backs of my shoulders because your tank tops would do the same thing so again I hear where our place is coming from and I don't think it's a misguided place to be coming from I don't I just don't understand how this language corrects the problems that you even expressed currently exist and like I just don't understand if all we do is go back to what was done before how do we change anything I just don't get it president Schultz how do all these other schools enforce their dress code policy how do Charter Schools enforce their strict dress code policy how do the hundred schools that she looked up enforced their dress code policy there's a
133policy we enforce it just like the hundreds how many policies we have over 300 policies in this District and staff is put in charge of enforcing those policies if we're making policies I've said it before if we're going to make policies we need to ensure that it's enforced so yeah I mean it's once a policy is made the the you know it will be communicated to the teachers and School staff and then the staff will then communicate it to the students and if those students come in they've been notified and the email will go out to the parents letting the parents know what the new dress code policy is which this should have been done prior to school starting but unfortunately it wasn't but we have a way to communicate policy down to the students
134to parents to ensure that everybody is aware and that and then the staff will be responsible for enforcing it um I mean this isn't anything new um it applies to every policy that we have so miss McLean can you just remind me how many districts across the state have adopted this policy including our surrounding districts a Madam president there are 10 districts that have adopted this policy thank you president Schultz um not that I want to spend more time on dress code I still think that we're kind of a little bit of ways away and um for me personally I would like to ask Miss McClellan I'd like to we need to do something we need and I'm not saying our current dress code like Miss Wade said it's not enforced now that besides the
135fact of why are we not enforcing a policy that's a whole separate question um but in the other instance why are we not enforcing it is it too difficult is it not appropriate is it what what are the issues there and I'm not asking for an answer tonight I'm I'm just saying because I know but I I think we're still a little bit of ways of where we should be in my opinion and I think Miss McClellan hearing some of this conversation um I would like the opportunity to still table this ask Miss McClellan to kind of go back based on some of our conversation see what we can combine I don't think we need to go as strict as we were I think we do um I still think we need a little bit
136of leeway and um and I know again it doesn't mean we're all going to be on the same page um at this point I'm not comfortable for me I'm not comfortable approving the original one as it's presented and I'm not necessarily comfortable approving the amendment so I I know at some point we have to make a decision I I get it but I we have to set a precedence we have to know it's going to be able to be enforced we have to know it's the right way for our district um our current dress code is working and not working and it we've asked that dress code be addressed for some time and so it's finally here but I think we need to get it right and I I think we need to get it
137right not just part of our board I get a three two vote can pass but I'm not comfortable with either one so I'm just saying I can tell where this vote is going to go and I would end up not voting and would be at a 2-2 and we're going to be where we're at so um that's just where I'm going so instead of going there I would like to see if maybe that's something that we can do and maybe kind of come a little bit closer together Mrs McLennan is that something that you could take based on our conversations as Miss Reese said we table it and we bring it back at the following meeting or possibly the meeting after that depending on your schedule of course um I agree with Mrs Reese I'd
138like to make a motion to and we seconded it but now we can make another motion to another amendment tables yes so I'd like to make a motion to table the current item 7.1 policy jica for more information from our legal expert and a new policy read seconded all those in favor aye all those opposed not for opposing I am favorite I okay okay five to zero we will table this and look for more direction for Mrs McClellan and hopefully come to a policy agreement that makes sense for our district I'm sorry so do we ignore the first motion that was seconded to make an amendment this the yes okay okay moving on to policy 7.2 I make a motion to approve policy gbef social media and cell phone use second read seconded thank you
139sweet second it questions comments concerns for social media use Mrs Anderson I'm sorry in the update it was stated that volunteers was not added to this because we have volunteers signing a code of conduct so you're just saying on this piece of paper you're agreeing to it doesn't apply to a policy you're just going to agree to it because you signed a piece of paper so I just don't understand why we can't add it we won't get volunteers if we could say we're going to control their social media it would be very difficult for us to get I hope they don't think that that's what it means that we're controlling social saying it'd be interested responsible well then we have again problem with language but if is that we're going to monitor social media for
140volunteers Miss McClellan is that is that what it was board Miss Anderson so the district doesn't have the ability to discipline volunteers or any control over them the only thing that you can do is if a volunteer accent appropriately you can not allow them back on your campus right so if you found that a volunteer is communicating inappropriately with students you certainly have the ability to control that by um not permitting them or by tightening your volunteer process but the um this particular policy is based upon the guidelines that were published by the State Board of Education pursuant to a state law that required them to publish those guidelines and all of that is only applicable to School District employees okay and perfect I just understanding of president Schultz Miss McLennan um what happens if
141a volunteer obviously if they're volunteering in a classroom or anywhere in the school and they uh overhear information about a personal information about a student and they share that information publicly is there anything in the code of ethics that would cover that or is there how is that handled Madam president Ms Van Hook so the only state law that applies to volunteers is ars-15514 which says that you have to fingerprint and background check individuals who are on your campus who are volunteering who are not immediate relative or the parent or legal guardian of a student um so that that's the only Statute in title 15 that really applies to volunteers if a volunteer in your campus or a visitor on your campus they don't necessarily need to be a volunteer they could be just somebody
142who's there visiting if they act or violate your current policy that's in section K or if they are violate your school rules then the remedy is to remove them from the campus and to not and to create parameters by which they couldn't do that again but a parent or volunteer who's on your campus does not have um the requirement to follow FERPA only School Employees do and is that verbiage anywhere in policy as to such violation it's in your visitor policy which is in section k thank you president Schultz Mrs Reese Ms McClellan um just a quick question how do we protect those students who don't have photo release from I'm sorry that don't have a photo release that we don't have authorizations for their photo to be used how do we protect that we
143have foster kids and if we have volunteers who can take pictures of students and post it on social media how do we protect them sure Madam president misery so again that's more to the implementation than the policy creation but if there are volunteers who are posting pictures inappropriately what your staff should do who are supervising them is discuss it with them we've sent warning letters home to parents or to staff members and explaining so that the remedy is really in the enforcement of your school rules Mrs Reese I know that when I volunteer it's in the paperwork and then also when we arrive that you can't take any pictures of other kids even if they're your friends kids um you know only your your student if you're a chaperone on a field trip let's say
144you're a volunteer so I know it's reiterated at least on when I volunteered I know well and Miss Richards is going to send us the what the volunteer agreement looks like so we have an idea of what that verbiage is but I know that booster's post and you know things like that so I just that's why I was asking I just want to make sure that those kids that need protection are protected any other questions comments or concerns all those in favor of I I of policy 7.2 bossy GB of social media and cell phone use yes hi hi okay all this post motion passes five to zero moving on to Futures and agenda items obviously the next agenda item will be or our future agenda item will be our dress code well Heidi can
145you forward this please um I was just curious how um I read that we have a new visitor management system Raptor just curious how that's going and how it's working out and Mr Walker would love to elaborate on that sure um sorry president Schultz vice president Anderson I don't have any statistics prepared tonight but we did launch the visitor management system at the first of the school year it is up and running across all campuses we are currently working to optimize it there's a process in place to review how it's working we're working with the vendor the customer service representative to learn how we can better support the sites there has been some Growing Pains just initially launching any technology but we're working through that with it we're working with our sites to be able
146to follow the process through the guidance from raptor Technologies but I'd say overwhelmingly I I've gotten very complimentary support of the process front office counters are glad this is in place and it's something that we're using across all campuses in the district office as well yeah and and if it can be if you want to give us a more detailed update later that was very pre like for other you know next agenda or even our superintendent report that I did sure I'm happy to update it um any specific information that you're seeking regarding I anything just your kinks the great things responses what it looks like I do need to get out and volunteer just anything like that that so our it helps to promote it and and we're in a public meeting and just
147can update us on that um also I asked a question in our questions um but I didn't have response is it possible to do substitute teacher recognitions are we or is that something I think I've asked this a lot but is that something that we can make so vice president Anderson members of the board we have drafted responses to those questions that will be in status for you um our substitutes are actually employees of ESI and um so it's not like whom we had rescue subs and they were on each campus all the time it changes really frequently I do I do know our administrators thank them and honestly try to bribe them to come back to their campus you know what I mean that that's not what you're asking but they're not technically our
148employees um the other part of yours yes when we recognize volunteers you know I mean so I was I was just trying to give them a nice shout out because I think it's education I think that our administrators would stand up and say they have certain people that come now you want me to call somebody out until they can somebody want to elaborate how you recognize substitutes no is that what you're asking not today at all okay I just if you feel like it wouldn't work with us looked at me like okay I got it lots of you want to recognize something I mean but but I I was just trying to think of a way to celebrate them yeah they're very very important yes I think this is we can't make it without them
149so yeah we could have people elaborate how they personally do that but in terms of points of Pride I believe you know we got a question too about are we recognizing Grounds Maintenance Warehouse yes so I think I think every employee of ours is an employee and they're all fantastic so all right Mr Potts you're off the hook I want to there are some great ones out there for sure yeah um all right anything else well otherwise I move that we had during this meeting second all those in favor aye aye good night thank you