001um special workshop meeting of the Bangor School Committee scheduled for the 7:15 p.m. Tuesday, May 19th. Welcome to all those here in uh the library and also watching at home. If you please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. >> And to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. So, we're moving right into uh public comments. Do you have a statement I need to read before we start public comment? Members of the public may address the School Committee for up to 3 minutes on school and education matters. Public comments shall be directed to the School Committee and be brief and not repetitive. The School Committee's practice is not to respond
002or debate with speakers during the public comment period. We're here to listen. The superintendent or her staff will follow up on comments outside of the meeting as appropriate. The committee will not permit profanity or shouting and requests that speakers be civil. Discussion of specific personnel or student matters and complaints concerning specific employees or students will not be allowed, but will be addressed through established policies and procedures. Before speaking, we encourage speakers to review School Committee Policy AC, which provides that the committee does not and will not discriminate nor tolerate discrimination against students or employees on the basis of membership in a protected class. Speakers who share comments contrary to this policy will not be allowed to speak. Before starting, please state your name and place of residence. >> Would I come up first or would
003I come up now? >> Please. >> Good evening. I'm Dr. Michael Swaha. I have three children in Bangor schools, including a fourth grader in Fairmount. I'm going to speak against option number two, where Fairmount students are placed in Bangor High School. While keeping the Fairmount community together as a significant factor in this decision, the inevitable downsides of placing elementary and high school students in a single campus far outweigh the benefits. Malicious behavior aside, there are mundane circumstances that offer an even higher likelihood for problematic encounters. Think of the kinds of conversations you remember in when you were in high school. You know what kinds of topics are discussed and what language is used. These conversations may not be inappropriate for teenagers, but they can be highly traumatic and confusing for a 9-year-old. Putting these students
004in a high school and pledging to keep them isolated is like intentionally take taking elementary students into an R-rated movie and saying that it's okay because we gave them good books. Day after day, eventually some of that content will make its way through. While school officials will in good faith do everything in their power to keep students separate, encounters are inevitable, whether an elementary student overhears an age-inappropriate conversation, sees confusing graffiti on the bathroom wall, or inadvertently witnesses bullying, elicits emotion, or sexualized jokes. Yes, these they can be exposed to this content elsewhere, but this proposal represents a choice to put them in that context. And given that it's a choice, even one encounter is unacceptable. I'll leave you with four points to consider about this proposal. Given the condition of Fairmont, this relocation is
005realistically going to span multiple years, which increases the likelihood of encounters between these student populations. Number two, physical constraints, such as fire code regulation, or that some campus facilities will need to be shared, mean that complete isolation is impossible, even if attempts are made to control the timing of what students are in which spaces. Number three, it's a fact that sometimes students evade oversight. High high schoolers sometimes cut class, and as Fairmont parents know from the whole notifications we receive from time to time, fourth and fifth graders are not always where they're supposed to be. It's a given that total isolation cannot be 100% police, nor is it likely to be as rigorously policed for the more relaxed atmosphere of after school activities. And four, high schools inherently face many adult level challenges. A Vanguard
006high school teacher noted at the listening session just last night that students are regularly caught smoking and vaping in bathrooms, that syringes have been found on campus, and that more than one student has tragically overdosed on campus just this year. We can try to keep student populations apart, but things happen. >> That's right. >> Not everything goes to plan, and all it would take is one negative encounter for one of our Fairmont children to see or hear something that they can't un-remember. I urge you to not consider this option. Thank you. >> Thank you. Who would like to speak now? >> Hi. Um, I'm Megan Anderson, a mom of a current Fairmont student, and a will continue to be Fairmont next year, and also a rising Fairmont student. I want to assure this committee in
007my third appearance that I want to be here about as much as you want to keep seeing me, so. Um I am speaking from the perspective of someone situated on the west side, um and a family who will be squarely affected by this decision. I'm also representing the perspectives of several other west side families who weren't able to be here tonight cuz of scheduling conflicts. Um support appears to be coalescing around the school within a school at Bangor High, where we are tonight. I understand the appeal of this option. It keeps the magical Fairmont community together. It's probably the easiest to undo, and it disrupts the fewest students within our district. Uh I'm going to start with my second point of the benefits first. Um this committee should really aim to understand whether Fairmont will
008reopen and on what timeline before you render any decision about what to do with these kids for next year. I understand that there's been no full contract or assessment of the building or bids secured, which I do ask, why not? Um but truly, there are some immovable thresholds, financial or otherwise, that would control in determining the future sufficiency of this building. The committee, you're you must wrap your arms around these criteria in order to assess the future viability of Fairmont, and in order to reach a decision, um for next year. Uh and along the lines of viability, any temporary plan should come with a publicly available timeline for when bids will be produced, what the scope of the work is, when the contractor will be selected, how long that work will take, etc., etc. Um
009if the committee is considering the school within a school option, which it sounds like we could as a community everyone is really starting to coalesce behind, I'm here to remind you that although this decision displaces the fewest people, these displaced people are actually real humans, most of them under the age of 11, and they deserve the same high-quality education that the rest of the children within our district are receiving, even for one year. The following are things that must be considered in order to ensure our fourth and fifth graders' safety and security in an age-appropriate environment. First, what are the facilities going to be like? Where will they eat lunch and at what time? I know in my high school we eat at 10:15 in the morning because there were so many of us. Safety,
010it sounds like fire code may prevent a true separation. Bangor High students are surely wonderful, but by virtue of their relative time on this earth are much bigger than our fourth and fifth grade students. There's a reason why these groups of kids aren't usually in a school together. It has also been reported by staff and a number of last quarter. That is a terrible reality of not just our school system, but our nation, but it is not something that is generally happening in fourth and fifth grade schools, and it's not happening in Fairmont. Um and this is would be a true travesty for our kids to come upon. >> 10 seconds. >> Um I would also point out uh with the outdoor space that we already have a dearth of um outdoor safe equipment for
011our kids at Fairmont. And so in order for them to enjoy recess, they need to have snowsuits, etc. Thank you. >> Thank you again. >> Thank you very much. Who would like to come up next for a public comment? >> Um I'm Amy Zercher Smith and I have a third grader and a fourth grader, so soon-to-be fourth grader and a soon-to-be uh fifth grader. Um and when I I am also a teacher in the Bangor School Department. Um when I got the email this afternoon saying that my son was pulled um during his school day to participate in a listening session that he did not ask to be a part of and I did not approve for him to be in, um I knew that I had to speak up. He is 10 years old.
012We had only barely talked with our two children about the next coming years because they aren't set in stone. We really wanted to be more brief with them because plans keep changing, ideas keep getting tossed around. We wanted them to be finalized before we fill them in on what the next couple years are going to look like for them because there are a lot of worries and anxieties there for them. And of course, when he is asked by staff members which option he wants, he's obviously going to say that he wants to stay with his friends. And I appreciate the thought of making them feel like they want that they have a voice, but it made it really it's going to make it really hard for us as parents now, much more difficult for us
013when we have to let them know that if the school board decides that it is the Bangor High School option that we will not be allowing them to attend. If that is the choice that we that this community chooses because we do not believe that moving 8, 9, and 10-year-olds to the high school is an I we believe that is an irresponsible and risky option and I can't believe that we as a community are considering this. We have concerns about true separation as there are many entrances to the A-wing. Um we're not sure how you can actually guarantee that there will be no crossover between the ages. We have many questions with specials, lunch, the nurse, etc. And I don't believe that those can be left unanswered before this is voted on whether it is
014the eighth graders that move up or whether it is the fourth and fifth graders that are in A-wing. Um bathrooms are another huge concern as it's been mentioned tonight. If students are to use the bathroom by the gym or the cafeteria, um who's checking on them? Is a staff member going in before them? Um Bangor High School bathrooms are notorious for fights, drugs, and other inappropriate things. I attended Bangor High School and again, Bangor High School students are phenomenal, but they are also high schoolers. Things happen. High school Bangor High School students past and present that I know um have refused to use the bathroom throughout the school day um because they also just don't want to um expose themselves to those behaviors um their own same age peers um and can we honestly guarantee
015that we will be giving them the same opportunity um to the incredible programming that they are receiving at Fairmont right now um and are we going to be giving them an equitable experience to what um the fourth and fifth graders are getting at Mary Snow? Um and our students are already exposed to way more than they're emotionally and developmentally ready to ready for at this age in just this day and age world that we're living in. Um I just don't believe that there's been enough weight given to the worst case scenarios of the school within a school for fourth and fifth graders here at the Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else for public comment? Hello. I'm Amy Knight. Um I don't have anything uh formally prepared um and I'm probably going
016against the grain here a little bit which is why I felt like I needed to um speak my opinion. Um I have four children in the Bangor School Department. I have one at 14th Street School. I have one at Fairmont. I have a Sorry, two at 14th Street School, one at Fairmont and one at Dowdy Middle School. Um and my nine-year-old daughter will be going into fourth grade and my son will be going into eighth grade next year. So, I kind of have the perspective sides. Um well, I echo everybody's concerns about fourth and fifth graders staying in the high school. I have equal if not more concerns about my 8th grader being in the high school. Um clearly fourth and fifth graders are not high school students and I feel and I hope that
017the school would keep them as separate as it's possible. 8th graders are going to blend in with high schoolers and they are also going to be exposed to things that they are not ready for and I'm not ready for as a parent. I have one more year before he's going to be exposed to these things that we can't control anymore and not only that, but he will miss out on his 8th grade year in middle school which is so important to them at this age to finally be the big kids on campus and to completely miss that experience and go straight to high school is so sad for me and my son as well. He was also interviewed today to give his opinion and he of course wants to stay at Dowdy. I know there's
018so many factors to consider, but I personally would much rather have my fourth grader here in what can be as much as possible a separate Fairmont school than my 8th grader to be immersed in with high schoolers. I'm just not ready for that to happen yet. So, that's my opinion. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Please. Hi, my name's Justine Plame. I'm from Banning Board and then I have a student at uh Fairmont who will be in fifth grade next year and one who's currently at Dowdy in sixth grade and I don't really want any of these options, but I understand these are the options that we have um and I think containing the fourth and fifth graders as much as possible at the high school seems like the best option and the least disruptive
019to the most number of people. If it truly is temporary, that gives us a year to figure out if Fairmount's not reopening, how are we restructuring? Um my sixth grader pointed out that they would be Fairmount in fifth grade, Doughty in sixth grade, Cohen in seventh Doughty, and then the high school, which is a lot for those students. Um she plays sports, and she's very concerned about what if the air quality or our coach? How will the team be decided? What about the sixth graders? Are they allowed to play in basketball? Things that are really important to those students. Um band, chorus, orchestra, sports like I said, are real concerns for our middle schoolers, and I agree with what the person before me said about sending eighth graders into the high school without any plan
020to continue. Um I would not want an eighth grader to be exposed to those things any more, and I think it's easier to contain fourth and fifth graders. And I also think it could be an opportunity for the high school students to mentor, to come into the fourth and fifth grade classrooms, maybe have some prospective teachers that could get some hands-on experience, being helpers, or even organizing or helping teachers with within our classrooms might be a good opportunity to see the positive aspects of high school. So, while I don't love any options, um that was the one that seemed the best to me. And I also participated in the listening session yesterday, and unfortunately, our table's thought thing did not record us. Um so, I went to Dr. Robinson at the end, and we had
02110 minutes to recap everything. So, I felt like I should speak up tonight because our very good interesting chat that had lots of information was not able to be recorded. But consensus of my group was that while we don't love anything, the option to place the fourth and fifth graders in the high school seemed like the most reasonable. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hello, I'm Gwyneth. I have two kids in the school system. I have a rising sixth grader who is super excited to finally be able to go to school again with his big sister who's a rising eighth grader. I am not envious of this decision. This is a huge decision. And you're right, there's not really a good choice. And all of us parents I think have been discussing amongst each other
022what's going on. But today as I was driving back from Track and Ellsworth, this thought hit me. Everybody has said everything. Who wants to put a 12-year-old in high school? That is what we're talking about. Think of it that way. My daughter will be 13 starting next year in the school and she'll turn 14. But she has friends that will still be 12 starting eighth grade. Not even a teenager. These aren't easy decisions, but that is huge. So please just I know y'all have a lot of things to think about. The sports, the everything y'all know about. But 12 years old possibly being with 18 or 19-year-olds? Yikes. And a lot of eighth grade girls, we I have one, they don't look like they're in eighth grade. So it's kind of scary. Just my two
023cents. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Mhm. >> Anyone else for public comment tonight? >> Christina Murphy, Bangor. And I really didn't want to speak tonight, but I feel like it needs to be said. I really want to know the status of Fairmount. I want evidence, and I want the contractor reports, not just to know who did it. Because I also think that as insane as it is for 12-year-olds in a high school, putting 9- and 10-year-olds in a high school is also crazy. They're all crazy options. They are not appropriate for the ages that are in their consideration. And there are options that I feel frustrated are never considered. We were not given a voice in the sense of let's all brainstorm. I'll be honest, I would be more comfortable with my pre-K or
024kindergartner coming here. Maybe bus them from where they are and pull back the fourth and fifth graders so that they're actually in an elementary school. Um, because there would be more of an option, and I think this is why you're seeing a shift down in age where people would prefer that overlap. There's more of a an option to kind of have it go over their head. But I don't think it's going to go over the head of the fourth and fifth graders. I also am frustrated because I had a student who was similarly pulled out without my knowledge until this afternoon, and who felt after the listening session right before I came here and like she needed to tell me um that she felt like the options were being presented so that she would give
025an answer that was the answer that the person administering the listening session wanted to hear. And that is not what I want to hear from my child. I want to hear that she feels like her voice matters, and that you are listening to her without guiding. I will leave that, but please consider that you may have more than three choices, and if you don't, how you got here needs to be explained very clearly to the audience. >> Thank you. Anyone else for public comment tonight? All right. Thank you all. At this point, we're going to move forward to the informational item for tonight, discussion of the Fairmount reorganization plan, and Dr. Robinson is going to give a presentation, and then we'll have time as a a school committee to listen to the superintendent and have
026discussion on these. Superintendent Robinson. Ready. >> The Fairmount School is I don't know. Actually, >> Thank you. Um again, I'll just echo what I've been hearing, that this is a really challenging situation. And I know that it's frustrating for everyone involved. Um we are I am going to go through the information we have at this point and open it up for for questions. So, I do want to um share the listening sessions follow-up. Um we were able to, and there there were a couple of glitches. Um again, this was a a trying our best to incorporate as much feedback as possible in a short time. So, uh the listening sessions went mostly okay. Um a lot of people shared that they appreciated the opportunity to have that discussion. And the um the app did provide
027a summary report. So, we'll go over that and then just review the goals of the proposal. Um look again at our April 1 enrollment. Review the current options. Uh we did get information, more uh solid estimates on our Fairmont facility updates. And then review the additional considerations and open that up open it up for questions from all of our committee members. You can click on that. Do you have access on one at a time? It's linked to a document. So, as you can see here, uh um we were able to capture a synthesis of the data. Um and it it it did capture uh what most people did believe uh at that within that session. And I will also say that we extended this to those that were viewing online. Um there was an opportunity
028and people were participating from home as well. So, this is a wide range of people involved in >> Dr. Armstrong, can I ask you a question right there? I just wanted to see if people in the audience can see this. I'm sure people on online can see it, but people in the audience can they see what you're I don't know if we can turn it just a little bit. I think most of the committee have either computers or where they're going to listen to us and don't need to look at the screen. Thank you. >> This is This is also going to be posted on our webpage. So, um the overall uh community is looking at the school within the school model at Bangor High School. Um and I will just echo what I've shared
029last night as well that none of these are ideal. And as the school department, we fully acknowledge that this is an unexpected situation that we are choosing what we feel is the best possible option given our current reality. Uh so, the primary goal is looking at uh that the best This plan affects the least amount of students. If you could just scroll. Thank you. Uh right there, sir. So, really looking at maintaining stability for children um by preserving their um their student body and their staff. I spoke to several students last night, and that is something that echoed really clearly for me is and also from from parents that the school is not necessarily the location, but it's the people. And that struck uh that struck me, you know, really deeply knowing that um it's
030a huge and I know, you know, everyone is talking about the day-to-day operations, and when we have a sudden change, don't we want to have people who are near and dear to us nearby and offering that support. So, I fully understand that, and And students echoed that as well. You can I'm saying you can scroll up. This continues to summarize uh what I'm talking about. I'm not going to read it to everyone. Uh everyone can read that. Uh there is and I'll just go on to the uh strong opposition opposition uh to option three. And many people said that it would be a logistical nightmare. Uh there there are challenges for each of the options. Um as I have shared previously, I will continue to explain that any one of these are possible. Any of
031the options, one, two, or three. It really is just taking a close look at the lens from which we are viewing these options. And I've really appreciated those that have participated very productively in our conversations. Knowing that in an emergency, things don't always go exactly as planned. And yes, we would love to have a longer period of time with even more collaboration. Um and unfortunately, this is where we are. So, the challenge to option three um disrupting the number of students and that's what came through to me loud and clear. Um students and staff in grades four through eight for option three would be moved around in a pretty significant way. So, then if we look at option one, and again, I spoke to some of the seventh graders that were in attendance last evening.
032And um talked about those uh um safety concerns. Some of the parents talked about that. But I think what's even more telling to me about the options is the concerns for eighth graders uh for up rising eighth graders missing out on their middle school eighth grade year. Um I hear that. I feel that. Had we had a longer period of time, things could have been put in place, right? Like knowing seventh graders were going to go be moving on, there could have been special ceremonies and things of that sort, which I know our staff and administrators would have put together. And unfortunately, we haven't had that time to do things like that. So, I do hear those concerns. Uh if we could scroll up a little bit more. Um there are serious reservations, and I
033think we are going to speak to those um in terms of option two with the school within a school. Uh Looking at how do we keep 10-year-olds safe? Uh the playground, the logistics, lunch, um all of those things we have had discussions on, and there will be further information that I'm able to share at this point because we've had a little bit of a deeper discussion around that. In terms of uh and then of course the disruption to the high school. I mean, that that can't be that can't go unnoticed. So, I know um many people are rallying around option two, and I understand that, but I don't want it to seem as though it's the {quote} "simplest" because you are displacing a whole wing of teachers that needs to be reconfigured uh and will
034ultimately lead uh if this is the option we choose uh to some staff, you know, sharing spaces and things of that sort. So, it requires us all coming together, um and I do want to say that many of our staff have reached out with and I've talked to many people today uh uh, uh, uh, just recognizing the challenge that we're all facing here and it's it's not an easy decision. Concerns about sports and music, uh, and that's a lot of it would be that would be for, uh, options one or three because you have a reconfiguration that requires those extracurriculars, uh, to be determined. So, then down below, uh, there is a lot of concern that this may not be a year and I understand that. With deferred maintenance in an old building, we do
035have some pretty significant decisions to make. And the choice to move forward and make those repairs in Fairmont, of course, we aim to get things done. I've overseen facilities projects in previous districts. And those timelines sometimes get extended unexpectedly. So, I don't think there's a 100% guarantee on anything. I mean, things are happening, right? We just experienced something that's very unexpected and, uh, back in December, no one could have predicted that that we'd be here today. So, members are still feeling it's missing and I I understand this frustration. Uh, and I mentioned this last evening and I'll mention it again. Um, we had an older engineering study done on Fairmont, uh, but that needs to be redone and that that's a large undertaking that needs to have a committee approval process. So, at this point,
036we need to be, uh, looking at that and I understand there's frustration, but those assessments of buildings don't happen very quickly. Um, and to do a full assessment, we need to have that building available and empty. And I think we heard that already. Decision that not only addresses next year, but also provides a transparent and thoughtful plan for the future of all Bangor students. That's exactly, I think, what we all want. And I'll just go back to thinking about the listening, I mean, the um we had the listening sessions for our strategic plan. The original plan before this occurred was to continue that process. We are set to have the draft analysis of our strategic plan, and from that, a facilities committee will be formed to determine the longer-term vision. So, this was really helpful,
037uh, to be able to summarize that and have that information. Could you go to the other? And we did ask students to participate in order to hear their voices. I've had many students email me directly wanting to have a say. So, this was an opportunity for them to share in something anonymously that offered their voices. I love that their first one is recess because recess is so important to students. So, when we think about, um, what students have shared, um, and again, this is a small sampling, it's something to consider. The school-within-the-school model was a strong preference. Being in an isolated wing, um and particularly students from from Doughty and Cohen agreed, um, that that this was a a good choice, but also our younger students, as well. And the cost, the kids mentioned that.
038I I'm I've really been amazed, um, at the essays that I've received from students and the real critical thinking that they've put through and really their wide perspective that they're not just looking at it from their own viewpoint, but they're thinking of their friends. They're thinking of the students that are in the other buildings and they're thinking of the staff members and how this change is going to affect them. So that was that was wonderful to be able to say. The students did raise those major logistical hurdles. It was all the but nearly every proposal transportation, which is something I'll talk a little bit more about. Students with options one, two, or three, there's going to be changes with transportation and they picked up on that. Beyond logistics, they talked about the proposed changes and
039they worried about negative influences just as many people have spoken and that was across the that was across the board. The also the concern that's been shared already is eighth graders missing out on their final year in middle school. It's full. Fourth and fifth graders talked about recess being a significant significant intangible concern. I would argue that myself. We need to make sure that students have physical activity. It's extremely important. And eighth grade definitely uh confirmed that they were not not in favor of being at the high school. And they really like the idea of uh a transparent direct role in the decision-making process. Uh sometimes we think that even 9 and 10-year-olds may not have a certain capacity, but they do. Um and it's wonderful to be able to include them um in some
040of this decision-making. Go back to the Thank you. So just to review the goals of the proposal um again, safety is our number one priority. And of course, the continuity of our curriculum and programming. Um looking at minimizing the number of students and staff needing to relocate and maintaining that fiscal responsibility to our community. Um so this uh over the past few days, I've been able to get some more solid numbers. Um again, there's been calls out to people and uh it takes time to put these things together um in such a short notice. And then when options shift, those things need to be done again. So that's where we are with um a lot of the challenges on the specifics. Again, our current enrollment um and this breaks down each of our schools. There's
041a little over a thousand students in school. And then ranging from 170 to close to 400 in the or 150 to 400 in each of the other schools with a total of 3419 in the whole school department. So just to review current option one, uh we were able to get some additional costs. Looking at uh the So just to review, option one is the citywide students grade four at Mary Snow. The middle schools would shift to grades 5 through 7, which would be separated east-west as they are, and BHS would have grades 8 through 12. I've also linked a document. We'll just go over the costs first. Looking at playgrounds at both of the middle schools, and again, these are approximate because in this short notice, we can't get very, very specific. Um moving class
042materials, um another concern that has a potential cost, um because these details would have to be worked out is that uh teacher certifications are sometimes K8, sometimes 7-12, but the majority of teachers teach 7th and 8th grade. So, if we were just separating 8th grade, that would be that would present a significant challenge to the staffing. ensure that 8th grade had all the programming that they need. Uh so, I've included the maps. I don't know if we need to look at any of those, if you want to see them each right now. If the map is really mostly for the school-within-a-school model. But looking at benefits and challenges, if you could click on that, I opened this up to all staff today and captured thoughts from their perspectives. So, I want to thank everyone who
043did participate in that. That was uh very helpful for us to take a look at. And you'll note that some of the options have asterisks next to them. And that is when more than one person agreed with that. So, as I reviewed this information, it really echoed some of the same challenges um that have already been discussed. And if you could um go back to the top. >> I just got a question. >> Yes. >> You said there was a map of the Fairmount at BHS. >> Yes, that was the >> I think that'd be all >> Yeah, for for the the next option. Yes, cuz we weren't able to map that out. >> And just to pause on top of that, if it's not too crazy of an idea, since we're in Bangor High,
044after this, I would be interested to walk around and see what we're talking about once you're once you're finished, but since you brought it up. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> after the meeting. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Um so, that is for option one. Um thinking about sports, um thinking about the teachers, and that's mentioned there, uh teaching 7th and 8th grade, um the east-west divide, uh space for internal uh um people like I IT. It requires a lot of shifting. Just I'll just put it that way. Requires a lot of it. Um so, we can go to the next option. So, option two is the school within a school, and that is Fairmount students and staff relocate to lower A wing at the high school. Looking at the cost, um again, all of these
045have costs, but we've we're in a situation that has to be addressed. So, if we can go to um the benefits and challenges. And some again echoed a lot of what has been discussed. Um the teachers staying together uh impacts only two schools instead of more than two, uh class size, the high school has space, other options, uh particularly option three, would impact the enrollment at the middle schools. Some of the questions, um lunch, PE, the age span, not a long-term solution, for sure. Uh thinking about bathrooms, let's scroll that down. Again, I I don't want to read every to you, but I'm happy to uh answer any particular questions. Less transitions, uh we're pretty golden. Uh and then thinking about I know extracurricular activities were a question. So, uh 21st Century Club would follow
046the students. I know that's been We did just get that information today, uh that we did get the funding. So, we have 21st Century for our schools. >> May I ask for every school that applied, or >> All of the schools that applied. >> Beasley, Mary Snow, and Carolina. Okay, thank you. >> And and the Boys and Girls Club applied for um the grant to enhance what's happening at James Madison and they got it. The four schools are being impacted by 21st century learning. >> And that's an increase. So, it's a lot of opportunities. >> And continued again the same challenges uh that have been shared. You can go back. So, if we want to take a look if you go back to option two for a minute and click on the A wing at
047BHS. And again, I just want to thank our staff who've been really flexible and pivoting with these options and putting their due diligence in again while maintaining the day-to-day operations of the school. So, we were able to put this together. Uh so, what you can see here I can I can also share the map of the high school. Look at the whole This shows just lower A wing. So, if you scroll up a little bit if we go up down and up and down and up and down. But, if you go scroll all the way up So, that's the main entrance. So, as you're coming around the the loop that goes in front of the building that's the entrance. We are proposing for this option that we would add those secure doors right inside. So,
048there would still be access to the stairwell the high school, but there would be secure doors where the Fairmont students and staff would be housed. And then there is space for offices in that first section there on the left. And then if you scroll a little bit, you see the existing doors are labeled there, and those are able to be closed and locked. There are open areas. Um currently, I believe they have lockers. Talk about they have lockers right now in that area. That was already a summer project to be um to remove those lockers, which is which would open up a significant amount of space that could be utilized for a variety of needs. And then as you see, there's all of the classrooms um going all the way down. Keep going. The bathrooms
049are there. And then that yellow line, we would be adding bidirectional doors as well. Um so there would be the two egresses, which are legally required. Um and I think that Are there any specific questions on that? Yes. >> Would this be the configuration for eighth graders if they were in the high school, or would they be in a different >> Eighth grade would be different. Um we don't have a specific map for that. Um because of the nature of eighth grade, where they switch classes, it would be much more um difficult, I'd say, to keep them completely segregated because things like um the cafeteria, the special you know, art, PE, music, um they would need to use those facilities. So they would be intermixed a little bit more. I don't think there could be
050as strong a guarantee as there could be for um Fairmount for four and five to be there to keep them completely separate. >> So I was at at this point sense for for people to start asking questions. >> I'm happy for questions anytime. >> Would you like me to Would you like me to call on individuals? >> Sure. Sure. >> Let's Let's open it up. Thank you First of all, thank you very much for the presentation and we have anybody that would like to Oh. Member Sprick. >> Thank you. Thank you for the work that's gone into the presentation. I do have a whole series of questions, but I will defer to the group so I'm not hogging the discussion here. One of my main questions is just a little bit of a walk-through about
051Fairmont still. There's still a number of people, maybe myself included a little bit, that wonder is there any path to eke out one more year at Fairmont? What does that look like? How was that decision made? What contractors have we talked with? Have we got second opinions? Things like that. Knowing it takes time. But I have to say that the very first I've heard about these student listening sessions is today. I'm very concerned about that because this is a very sensitive topic that parents want to be able to discuss with their children on their own terms in their own way. So, I'm interested in hearing more about how the student listening sessions where that idea came from and I consider it a breach of trust with the parents to have whole students in to discuss
052these significant topics without informing the parents that they were going to be discuss discussing it. And I am very concerned about who is leading those sessions, how were the students chosen? There's equity issues at play with that. And I just find the student listening session thing to be very, very concerning. >> Yes, I can speak to that. Having spoken to students last evening and having many of them emailed me emailed me. Um that was my idea to include them, those that had participated already in discussions. Um it was Director Finney who oversaw those listening sessions. Um and it was completely voluntary for students to participate. So, um I apologize for not getting that parent permission. Um it was I know it has been a student um assignment that teachers gave. It's been a topic in
053classrooms. So, um that thought um of kids are involved and I really felt like this is a huge decision that they should also have a role in. Um so, that that was faith that was my doing. In terms of Fairmont, I can finish the presentation because there are some further details >> that are directly related to Fairmont. >> They're directly related. Yeah. >> Okay. How does that work in that work? >> Yeah, I do want to hear more about Fairmont. Uh I'm just aware that and I'm sure you are too, there's a big difference between high school kids discussing this, older middle school kids. Although I did say as I said the last meeting, older middle school kids are still children in many ways and I I'm upset to be honest about fourth and fifth
054graders getting pulled in to the discussion. >> I can understand that. >> Please. Please. >> Can you put the presentation back on? So, if we go on to option three, there are some additional details there in terms of cost, the playgrounds, uh the science labs being needing to be renovated. Uh and the benefits and challenges. I think I mean, I will say I don't want to waste people's time because I feel like at this point, uh it's been made abundantly clear, I feel like that uh the community, the students, the staff are interested in the least disruptive option. So, I would just go to uh the next slide there. So, the facility update which I received uh this morning and it is a little small. I don't know if you can click on that link.
055Should be a larger. Or we can uh zoom into it. So, these are the preliminary costs. And looking at the items again, just to recap the way this all transpired is we have a map in all of the schools that identifies where asbestos is in the school so that we're aware there's a structured plan to address that as needed and that way people know in advance before doing any work what to expect. So, that was unexpected asbestos that was alerted to our director of physical plant back in February. Those roof leaks were that particular one was addressed through the proper procedures and additional leaks continued. So, because of this continuation, knowing that there is asbestos in specific areas It became a concern because we don't know what to expect when we start addressing these things.
056So, looking at what's needed as we dug deeper and these concerns have been raised across the board from various people within the school department. Looking at the roof is a 3-4 month process. So, and then it's a sequence of events. So, the roof needs to be done first and then the paint throughout the building needs to be addressed. And that takes time. The roof of the annex is a separate section from the main building and that has a timeline as well. We have the foundation uh the water infiltration that's coming in through the foundation. That would be something that would need to be addressed before for example, the carpets would be put back in. So, this is a significant lengthy process. You can scroll up. The kitchen um that came through uh with a assess-
057an assessment that was done recently. >> They have inspections. >> But is that annual? >> Yes. >> So, through an annual inspection this information came. >> Remember Brian has a a question specific to what you're discussing. >> Yeah, thank you very much. Um so I think you know, the elephant in the room is is this really going to be a year or it's more long term? And so, are we to look at these months if this is what needs to be done and add up all of the months and then that would determine how long we're actually looking for this project to be complete. Is that accurate? >> an additional. So, do you want me to say answer that >> That's fine. >> But that leads to my So that you could please thank you.
058>> So if we scroll down to the letter, do you want to talk about that first Marine and then I can >> What? >> Sorry. >> It's actually >> Yeah, you can go ahead. >> Okay, so on the third page of this document it is a letter from a contractor that the director Maguire and I have gotten to look at the estimates that we've been working on for since this is all being and he has in the bottom paragraph again people can read through this. This all will be available on the website so to look at in full detail but I can read this last paragraph and that'll kind of summarize everything for you if that's a little bit helpful and he he kind of echoes what we have said and have researched and so
059it says without specific details commodities scope of work or on site inspections it is impossible to quantify um cost for the reference construction in rough order of magnitude terms the 32,000 square foot building requiring the above reference work could run 175 dollars square foot or 5.6 million dollars as for time frame this project could run as long as 12 to 18 months to complete under no circumstances could anyone part of the above mentioned work activities be completed within the 2026 summer vacation period. There simply isn't enough time for both pre-construction activities and construction so to realistically be completed. And so this is an opinion from the contractor. We have there there is absolutely no way that he can come up with we've we've just been working on this with him recently. We are going to
060get an engineer. They are going to get quotes. We're going to do top to bottom assessment of the entire building. And what we had discussed with him this was just Friday. He was he was able to get this um this together for us so we could you know, provide you guys more information but um we we've kind of picked apart even just one item on the list and that's what he's talking about even doing one item. So the painting in the classrooms the painting is is chipping. We can't fix that which would take like 6 months without fixing the roof. And then if you fix the roof, you're going to have to fix the painted the the chipping paint. And then if you're fixing any of those things, there may be asbestos but you're going
061to have to abate the asbestos. Um and which which is a common thing when you're doing any kind of construction that you may find asbestos in a building of this age. So it's kind of like a snowball effect when you look at this as a whole and you look at that second page that one kind of breaks it down a little bit a little bit more for you on all of the separate things. But then he talks about you know, where you would have to kind of start. Um then there's also the aspects of the planning the um you know, having the engineers do their work. You have to bid out all these projects because as a school department we have to bid everything out over $10,000. And then if this is something that we
062want to pursue as a school department, um there's a bonding process potentially because $5.6 million dollars quite a lot of money and then that could take a few months to pursue that. So, um I'm happy to answer any questions. >> I think member Bryant has the floor. Do you have a >> quick follow? Thank you very much for that. Thank you, Heather. Um I have a question about Scott Dunbar. Like I where like I think the questions are, you know, we all understand that this is, you know, we have to use preferred vendors. We have to go through this process, you know, uh diligently and with all of the state laws, but can you explain the process of like why Scott? Why these numbers? How many other bids have been put out? Like how do
063we It's hard to make a decision when we don't have So this So this is very >> This process we have explained, you know, that it's going to be it's going to take a while. So, um Josh and I have uh worked at trying to get that second page, right you know, this has been an ongoing process, but we knew that we needed to get a second opinion. Um we Josh has uh reached out to a trusted contractor. You can come up too. And um and you know, just trying to secure somebody who is well known and all of that and this person is actually doing this out of retirement and things like that to do um they are going to We haven't done any bids yet because this is just a scope of work
064estimates. We're not going to do any bids until we get a decision on what we want to move forward with because it's um it wouldn't be very productive to work on any of these projects until we have a a like a broad overview of what we're actually looking at and where to begin, where to end any of that stuff. So, it's going to be a a little bit before we can get these concrete numbers, you know, it it's going to take some engineering and they have to look at structural all of Josh can speak more to that. >> I guess to keep in mind is >> I'm sorry. >> Sorry. I was just sorry. >> Um big thing to keep in mind here is throughout the process of all of this >> I'm sorry. Can
065you introduce yourself and say >> I did. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. >> Josh Maguire, director of physical plant. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you. I I think people in the audience can I can see they were like nothing right here. >> Um So, the important thing to really keep in mind is that the estimates and timelines that we're coming up with are um we're looking to try and give you guys some information to help better improve this decision-making process. Um but realistically, when we get down to it in order to get firm details where we can go out to bid and get um you know, hard numbers on this, we have to involve engineering companies. We have to have the building empty so that we can go through the
066entire building and see what the actual scope is. do that without having you know, a company you know, a company of men of those people and the engineers and contractors that can really support this. Any information that we can bring to you isn't going to be complete and accurate. Um and that's kind of a disservice to you guys making those decisions. So, in order to do that properly, this is why we called Scott. He is a retired major contractor from the area. He's well-known. Um And as they said, I'm the He's doing us a pretty big favor here to try and help us through this and help you guys. So. >> Thank you. >> Can I speak? Sure. >> Uh yeah, I just wanted to um wrap my head around the the conversations that you
067had with um Mr. Dunbar. I understand this is a scope of work. This is not a bid. We're going to get bids if we move forward with this. Um what would be helpful is in in I mean, in your conversations, did talk to him about the scope of work going beyond one year? Did he give an I I I see the estimate that it's it's not going to be able to get It's going to have to go through the fall. But was there ever any conversation about scope of work in his professional estimation that it would go beyond a year? >> Uh we did provide him with a copy of the capital improvement plan that is going out 5 years so that he could see some of the items on there. We didn't really take
068that into account into what we're looking at for the immediate needs at Fairmont because those aren't really what's driving his decision to close the building temporarily and be able to assess these problems. >> And in his in his opinion letter, it does say 12 to 18 months at least. If you take into account all of the prep work, the engineering, all those things as well as the work. So, on our the second page, that one is just projects only. Like that would be if we went in tomorrow, started the contractor started the work, and that's if you could find a contractor to come in tomorrow and do the work and things like that aside from all that pre work that you have to do in order to do you know, facility work like that. So.
069>> I'm just right. >> Thank you. Uh I know this is stressful and these questions just add to the stress. So, I appreciate you guys being willing to bear and talk it through truly. Uh I actually I don't know Scott Dunbar directly, but I recognize the name and believe him to be entirely reputable. So, I just want to make clear that I appreciate his communications with us and I find him to be certainly completely above board here. I would say a couple things. One, if I went to a doctor and got such a poor diagnosis, I would immediately try to find another opinion. I would try to find another contractor just to have two things to compare against. And maybe with the lens of is there a one-year reprieve route here somewhere? Like like Superintendent
070Robinson has talked about the the dreaded January 2027 scenario where we've got an emergency cuz we tried to eke out one more year in Fairmount. Well, is there something we could do on a more minimal scale? I don't expect you to have the answer tonight, but this is a long This is just expressing the way I'm thinking about this. Is there like just roof work we could do in 3 months to patch it up enough to get another year to buy ourselves all time to have the more substantive long-term conversations. Has Has like the one-year reprieve patch-up option been part of the discussion at all? >> So, we we we did ask him those questions. We said, you know, that was the first question. Can we open up the school? Is there any possible way
071we can do this looking at the the projects that we had listed um by September? Can we Can this happen? Um the problem with you know, we did have half of the roof planned as a project to do this summer. But, if you only fix half of that roof, um you're still got another half of that roof that's leaking. You still have the the paint that's chipping in the the uh the rest of the school. You still have all of these problems we've talked about. So, it's kind of at a point where do we keep putting those Band-Aids on the school? Um and then like Dr. Robinson had mentioned, you know, if there's something that comes up from one of these things that we didn't attend to by September, we only did the roof, then
072are we going to be evacuating these kids in January because we have to attend to something within a 2-3 week period, you know? So, that's that's our concern there. And And as far as getting a second opinion and all that stuff, um this is a very preliminary uh conversation. He this contractor is going to be uh it's going to take some time. He's going to have to do a lot of work. He's going to be working with engineers. He's going to be working with other contractors. He's going to be working with um other vendors, and they're going to be getting quotes. They're going to be everybody a lot of people are going to be looking at this as a scope of work. It's not going to be just his opinion. >> I appreciate the answer,
073and I would not I'm not handy myself. I wouldn't be able to find the roof of the building if I had a map. Uh I just feel like this is such a significant decision, and we have known about it for a little while. >> Mhm. >> And it goes back into the late winter, I think, uh that I'm just like feeling a little bit uncertain and maybe frustrated that we got a lot of eggs in this one person's professional opinion. And again, fully believe he's entirely reputable, but we have to make such massive decisions. I want to have as much information from as broad a group of perspectives as I possibly can. >> We also have the um you know, we're doing the energy audit. We have those engineers and that company working with us
074as well aside from this. Um they're they're willing to help consult here and there um whenever they can and on whatever they can as well as the the engineering firm that we've been working not engineering, but uh the one that does our capital improvement plan. They'll be working along with them, and they've been working with not only the school, but the city for years and years. So, >> They're engineers. >> They are our engineers. They've been with these buildings. They've been working on these buildings for years. So, uh I mean, at any point, like we're going to share these details with you on an ongoing basis. And um if at any point you want to switch it up or figure something out, then we can do that. >> I think another thing that's good to
075note, too, is that any projects we do within the school department, we start planning them back in November, December. That's when we start engineering them, going out and really looking at the buildings, assessing structures, you know, finishes that need to be done, plumbing, electrical, mechanical, HVAC for indoor air quality purposes. All these things have to be addressed and looked at when we do projects. So, it's a very considerable timeline to get these things done. Once the engineers get their plans together, then we have to deal with permitting for all these projects through the city, finding contractors, putting them out to public bid. Um and that's starting back in November, December just to have someone available for a summertime project. So, with the timeline we're currently on, that's another reason why we're looking at there's just
076no way that we can accomplish this in the summertime period. >> Like, we wouldn't even if we wanted to do just the roof at this point, even to go through to get the bid together, to go through the bidding process, find a contractor that would be available to do the work, have the workers available to get it done in time after the kids are out of school, um it would be I wouldn't say impossible cuz, you know, oh, anything's possible, but it would be tight. >> Member Ryder, >> Thank you. And again, I I want to echo to everyone's gratitude for being here and answering these questions. And I want to acknowledge my own crankiness in this situation. I um I know, and it's so hot. My what I keep coming back to is I
077I absolutely understand the process of having to get on this timeline so we can start this process and get these bids. Um I don't know Mr. Dunbar and I'm grateful for his professional opinion, but is there any other individual we could ask a professional opinion of to determine if this is in line with his professional opinion. So that when we're looking at this gentleman says you know, it it can't be done. We've got to move forward. How can we I know we can't have bids out and we can't have all the numbers ready, but surely we can find somebody else that could give >> So So he's >> He's not going to be able to do a lot of That's why we need the engineers part like he himself will not be able to look
078at these this whole thing and say, "Okay, this is what it's going to take." He needs the engineers' opinions. So that's going to be kind of like a second third opinion as well. >> But what I guess my question is like is there any way to find other individuals to give them all the information we have and say, "Are we sure we've got to evacuate now? At the at the end of school year, we cannot go back into this school for 18 months." And again, I'm asking about it ignorance and thankfulness and I'm I really appreciate by being here and having all this information. It's just from my perspective if there's anyone that could look at this and we could say, "Yep, Mr. Dunbar looked at this and he said this and also Mr. Johnson
079looked at this and he said the same thing. Um this is a different timeline maybe or these are different things that he thought of." I just think the more information we have and I know that I And I if this were going to stop the timeline and delay the vote, then I don't think that's the right option because we need to move in order to get these processes going. I just out of sheer unknowingness of how the construction um works, is there any other individual that we could ask to get this information from? >> Um I I say that I have had uh I don't have any official documentation and I'm sure we could provide it but I have had conversations with the engineering company that we do use on a regular basis to design
080all of these projects. Um and they are in the person I spoke to there is in agreement with the estimated cost and timelines. Um I'm sure that we can talk to them and get something in writing from them if you would like to see that but um I do think that if we go down the road of trying to find another company to come in and really do any sort of assessment or anything, we're just delaying this even further. And of course the further we delay this, the harder it is for us to try and actually accomplish anything to get us back into the building or >> Yeah, thank you very much for that. I appreciate it. That was very helpful. Thank you. Any other questions for these two individuals? >> We'll be a little
081calmer back there. >> We know you're not done yet. >> Oh yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, it's specific to this city that we're in right now. >> Yes. >> Thank you very >> Thank you. >> Before we get into the slides up, I just want to say thank you for the information. It was really helpful for the perspective of uh member uh member writing to say like is there another Dunbar who's looked at this? Not someone who's dumbed down me but just someone else who's had that opinion. So it's really helpful to say well yes, we have had people who've looked at people and they're agreeing. Nothing written down but they're like yeah, this looks right and that makes me feel a little bit better about >> I think having that in writing might be helpful.
082>> Carpenter and Associates have been the long time partner uh with the Bangor School Department and that's who puts together our capital maintenance plan which is also linked um right here in the document. Thank you. Go to the next one. So again, just to review the additional considerations that will be addressed as we determine which plan we will have moving forward. Open house opportunities, student supports, ensuring comfort for our staff in their current jobs. Sports and extracurricular opportunities, we plan on ensuring that continues for any of the options and working closely. We have been able to coordinate and talk with John T. Cyr and Sons bus contractor. And the confirmation, while they have to work on specific routes, the confirmation is that the school start and end times would not shift regardless of the option.
083One thing that I will note in terms of transportation, I don't know if we've publicized this yet, but there is bridge construction that's happening this coming school year. So that is going to impact our transportation. Um There will be some delays. Bridge construction in the city. I don't know if we have We don't have any concerns, right? >> The city has put that out. >> Like the The city has put that out. >> Yeah, they've had they've had that through listening sessions and stuff on it. >> Are we talking about like that Hogan Road >> It's the Conestoga bridge. >> Conestoga, Stillwater, and Hogan Road bridges are all being constructed, so Right, for the next 2 and 1/2 years. >> So I just wanted to as we're talking about transportation. >> I have a clarifying
084question on Cyr. Um so just to be clear, the start and end times would remain the same. Does that mean that if fifth grade and sixth grade, if fifth moved up to Goudy for instance, they would still start Can you clarify what >> start and end time would remain the same like based on the building you're in or based on what you're doing what you go through them? >> So, um we've worked with the director of Searbus and she has actually scoped out this entire route for a couple of months plans and as of right now the the start and end times would stay the same. >> Did she produce Did she specifically say though like if fifth and sixth grader at Dowdy that it would start at the Dowdy time? Or because that would
085be a split. I think that's what >> Yeah, thank you. I I really need >> I think they talked about maintaining the earlier school time. >> We >> Yeah, we presented it to to her. She She was able to accommodate that. >> The school times? >> Yeah. >> So, the high school the school within the school would the would the fifth grader have started at the high school time or >> No, they would not they would take >> Yeah. >> It is very confusing with all these options. Option the option that has that would be option three that has fifth and sixth at Dowdy that would be the Dowdy the current Dowdy start time. The school within the school the schools would maintain their current start times. So, Fair Mount would still start at the
086same time the high school would start at their own separate time. Even if they're Fair Mount is housed in ninth. >> Thank you. Thank you for that. Let me ask another Sear question and I I don't know again um again I I know that until we have a plan all of these details have not been worked out but did Sear and their team uh rather the teams that works with the Bangor School Department for Sear give any indication as to how any of these options how their routes would be impacted. Have Have Do they say one way or other like, "Oh my word, if you chose option one, we'd never be able to get >> No. No, they were very very willing and they worked with us very easily. >> Did you come up and
087speak to >> Yeah. >> But I feel like that's much louder over there, but >> Thank you, Everett. >> Thank you. So, um No, they every every time we went to the uh to her to with a plan, she was willing She's like, "Let me work on that." and um seemed to have it all figured out. And and of course, up until July 1st, uh their bus routes for any school at any time in any years can are subject to change, so it would be same with this. >> I thank you. >> Member Speed has a question. >> Yes. >> Yeah, just wanted to clarify that the the high school schedule is from 8:00 to 2:00 and Fairmount is from 9:00 to 3:00. Is that correct? >> So, 9:00 to 3:00 for Fairmount, 8:00 to
0882:00 for the high school. >> Any other questions for Director Hale at this point? >> If you want to sit there. >> Yeah, maybe you can >> You should. >> Thank you so >> That's everything that I have. So, there are other options and I'm I'm happy to answer any other questions. I'm sorry. I'm going to let >> Member Lucia. >> So, I'm just going to do a it to the best of my ability of recap from what I think maybe happened. My um processing is sometimes a little disjointed, so let's see how that goes. Um, it seems like, based on the feedback, the comments, all of the things we're hearing, that we should essentially possibly just eliminate option three for this year for now. But, knowing too that we're looking at possibly 18 to
08924 months down the line, possibly um, from the 18, excuse me. I'm just throwing the buffer time in my head that I would do with everything in the kitchen. Um, I'm curious if that makes that third option more viable, but that's neither here nor there, so that's was sort of just one of my recap moments, but truly, the bus thing isn't an issue, we've got that. No matter what we do, bus thing's good. Correct. And we're not planning to eliminate specials or after school sports or anything like that, no matter what we pick. >> Correct. >> Okay. And those are my major concerns were the specials, the bus thing, and making sure that those wouldn't be impacted regardless of what path we're moving. Thank you. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Remember here? Please. >> I have a
090question that's not related to the lines, different direction. Um, so with the listening sessions I heard in the summary, but also just um, in the groups that I participated in, and just from the community members, about a curiosity about how these options were developed. Like, how were they narrowed down? And just so I know they have I thank you to Ray and to others who really helped develop the the the website that has like the timelines and the, you know, detailed information about um, and how things were developed, but just for uh, for the committee and those listening at home and those in the audience, can you just talk briefly about how these options were narrowed down, who was involved in the decision-making process, and what was just considered and rejected? I I a lot
091about the UMaine and guess that's an option. I know that is. You can learn about Why was it considered and rejected and other options that were perhaps considered but staff didn't follow up? >> Initially, we had had the options of portables. Many of the options in the initial proposal required portables. We got the information and once we had the information specific to those in terms of cost and again availability of a November November or December timeline, those were deemed not reasonable. In terms of leasing space, I did between myself and Dr. Harrismedberg reached out to all of the local colleges. I know there was some question around UMA. I spoke to the Dean of the college myself about a week ago or so who explained of course and and everyone has been so helpful saying
092I wish I could help. UMA recently has sold one of their buildings and he said we have only seven classrooms that could be used. So, that were those were similar responses at the other colleges. The space just isn't there to utilize. In terms of leasing space that was taken off just because of the again um the cost and then the retrofitting. So, when space is leased, it would have to have construction to prepare it depending on which space that was. There were a couple. The military training facility that was brought to me. UTC had explored that. So I did reach out to Director Peterson at UTC and had a great conversation. She gave me the contact information. I wasn't able to I have still haven't heard back unfortunately from them. But they did indicate initially
093that there's lots of uh, for lack of a better word, red tape for using a a military facility. So, that was ruled out. Um, and again, would potentially need to have work done to it. Uh, and then the other one was the Penquis building uh, that I've recently been in contact. That was another um, suggestion that came up later and I spoke to the director there who put me in touch with her team. I spoke um, to them about the space. Uh, Director Maguire went over to the building. He walked through and while there is a lot of space, it would also require retrofitting that area. I'm sure everyone's familiar pretty much with that building. Um, it doesn't lend itself to much outdoor space. Uh, kitchen-wise, gymnasium, things of that sort. So, uh, we did
094explore those options. Um, in term and have not found anything that would be suitable or available. In terms of the teams, that that has varied. Um, it's been our directors, assistant superintendent, various administrators. Um, I've tried to keep basically a rotation of who was involved in whichever option after we initially brainstormed with administrators and district team members. Uh, because they are the experts. As I mentioned, um, I haven't been in Bangor that long. So, I'm relying on the team to really um, come up with that they know their buildings and they know what's possible and feasible. Um, and they are long-term uh, employees here, many of them. But also bring a wealth of knowledge and expertise about students. And they know the staff, they know the students, and I completely trust their input on this
095and have relied heavily on them. And I again just it's been a rotation because every day they are doing their jobs of leading the schools and it's been taxing. It's been taxing on them as well as the staff, families, and students. It's taxing on everyone. So, I just can't extend enough thanks to everyone who has helped to contribute to this process. >> Question I want to ask. It's more of a comment, but I'd like to expand on a little bit. One of the things that I think is most positive about the school within a school, so Fairmount at Bangor High School, is this idea of keeping the school community together. That really is it's a real thing. When I taught at the James F. Doughty School years ago, I was there for 5 years, there's
096a culture, there's a community, there's your colleagues, there's just a sense of place. Um and it's it's not the bricks and mortar, it's it's the people. So, I'm interested in what it's something you mentioned several times and I've heard from folks is that educators at the Fairmount School are also um concerned about this this idea of of keeping that school community together. Can you >> Absolutely. I attended a staff meeting with the Fairmount staff, um and that was abundantly clear to me directly in that conversation. Um there were lots of different questions that were brought up, um but the main thing that has been shared to me is we just want to stay together. Um that was from staff, um and I agree with you, there is a unique culture in every single one of
097the buildings. So, to again, you know, long term is one thing, but in a short turnaround from June to September is a much shorter timeline to not only physically prepare, but emotionally and mentally. And I think that's the piece that really needs to be considered given the very strong feedback that we have received. Yes, change is difficult. This is a rapid change that was unexpected. So people aren't prepared for it and we need to allow them more time before there are further changes. And again, going back to our strategic planning process, that's the aim. That's that's the goal of that is to continue that collaborative process up with a long-term plan. >> Thank you. Um Number nine. >> No, I know. I know. I know. Um I know. I'm sorry. Thank you very much. I
098I thought it would be helpful. Could we I I do agree that that the general consensus, right? We all look at the data. We all We're part of the listening sessions. Is the fairmont students at um in in uh Bangor High School. I think there are some valid questions and so about what that would look like. So I think going back to the map I think like all of these things that we heard like fire code makes it so the door can't shut and you have to use a different bathroom. And the gym, could we look at that map again and talk through some of those questions that we heard? >> Sure. >> To maybe us help answer some of that feedback that people are like genuinely concerned about if that's going to be the
099decision. I I would never want to be like, "Okay, well this is what everybody else decided, so let's go with it." Like those are real concerns that I want to be able to look at. Thank you. I get it. But I I don't want to trivialize the construction. A lot of people have questions, too. So um on this there I guess I'll I'll begin with there are bathrooms, right? Those are the bathrooms that are available to the students that they will have access to. They won't have to leave their wing for bathroom. Correct. No one's going to be coming and going for bathroom. >> Correct. >> Okay. Had the What is the thought about lunches? >> The lunches the The initial thought on lunches is to utilize the large space in those open areas where
100the lockers are. >> Okay. So, they wouldn't be necessarily in there. >> They wouldn't necessarily be in the cafeteria and lunch could be brought to them. >> And I just want to say Mary Snow is always got a warming cart and I don't think my kids ever even noticed. Just so like I'm not worried about that. What I was worried about was having the already very overworked staff that is running lunch at the cafeteria having to manage that additionally. Is it safe to assume that the Fairmont lunch staff or food services staff rather would obviously move with their school and be responsible for that process. Like the the food at Fairmont. >> The food service director has has been has been made aware and is looking at making sure that everyone would get fed regardless
101of whichever option. >> Right. Right. I I obviously have no doubt that people know that. I just You know, you hear like, "Well, my kid has to eat at 9:30 in the morning." Like that's not fair or a 10-year-old and I think it's really important to say those things out loud and say like, "Is that going to happen?" No. Like we have the staff. We have the space. They're not going to be confined to their classroom. There's going to be space out here. Um in this open area here, that's where folks That's the courtyard. Is that what that is? >> If we can go to the high school map, there is a courtyard, but um I think when you look at the whole high school map, it's easier to see the space if you're talking
102about recess. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> So, I can't really If you scrolled, uh Yeah, see it come back. So, there is the space, uh right the And correct me if I'm wrong, but um the space between Eeks, which is the circle, right? Uh to the right there there uh there's an open space there where the cursor is, but if you go to the next open space, no, to the right. Yeah. Yeah, Josh. Thank you. >> Thank you, Josh. Thank you. >> Yeah, so that is a large Yeah, that's a large open space. There is also a courtyard that is The courtyard is the back. Did you want to go to that on the map? >> Can you just point out where lower A is, too? >> Yeah, lower A. >> Right there. Thank you.
103I'm I'm I'm happy to keep going. >> My questions have nothing to do with the map. >> Oh, I have more questions. >> Yeah, I can keep going with the map. >> I just have one more quick question about Lewis. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> I have a lot but I'm >> Please. yeah. >> Um, so principal's office, social What about our um resource room, self-contained, gifted and talented? Are they reserved Are they included in the classroom? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, thank you. Um >> I'm going to speak. >> Yeah, I just I just wanted to um run back to what you had said and I would write in the class. They all turn in the room. Is this truly temporary or is this long-term? But this whole process has been difficult for me
104to decouple the two, right? So we we and that's actually um been an aid, I think, in the decision-making as far as which three options for me is is um after the feedback and listening sessions with the board's fund. Um, as I mentioned, if we have a truly temporary one-year plan and it sounds like it may be extended beyond one-year plan from what we've learned from this tonight. Um, then it makes sense to be the most the least disruptive as possible. Um, to keep kids together um when possible. Um, if we're looking for a long-term plan then option three looks to me like a long-term plan. But I'm not sure if it's the best long-term plan. I think we need more time and discussion from families to really truly flesh a long-term plan. I don't
105know if I think that's what's starting to happen, right? We're starting to turn that corner. So I think that that alone, the fact that we don't know and don't have three estimates uh three proposals, also reinforces the fact that we need a truly temporary plan. Um, so I recognize there are some folks in the city that are drawn to option three. Um, and perhaps some that have gone to option one. But I'm going to zero in on the what I see as the least disruptive plan, which is option two, um and ask specific questions about that. I think we've heard about transportation, uh extracurricular, class sizes is something I'm I'm interested in hearing about, phys ed, lunch. We've talked about recess a bit. Also, the physical books, right? Right now, there are books there that
106teachers are using. There are high school teachers that uh would have to move all of those books, and they would have to go somewhere. And uh the library at Fairmont, what happens to the library at Fairmont? So, I think that's a lot of questions. So, to recap, library, books, teachers uh under option two, phys ed and lunch. People speak. >> We're exploring various options for the library. Uh again, certainly those students at Fairmont deserve to have books of their age range. Um so, we're looking again at uh different possibilities. Uh potentially that open space, adding some shelves. Um in terms of PE, there um students are walked to and fro for uh various things in Fairmont school. So, uh fortunately, there is an opportunity to utilize the third gym three, I think is what they
107call it. And then, may I ask Dr. Butler to come up and speak a little bit more about the moving of the high school teachers. He's been working really closely um about that. So, yeah, so the use of the gym would work. Um and we are looking at uh specifically staggering those schedules to again mitigate some of the concerns. Uh but I do also feel that it would be appropriate for Dr. Butler to speak about the high school itself. I know there are lots of grave concerns. I myself have been in the high school during the switching of classes um at various times. Um and I know there's always a concern that something could happen. Um but these are great kids and I know everyone has acknowledged that. Um and I did also want to
108add that there are multiple schools across the state that have not only um you know, this this wide of an age range. Some buildings are pre-K to 12. East Middle and High School specifically is pre-K to 4 and high school in one building. Um so this does happen successfully in other places around the state. Um Dr. Butler, did you want to speak to uh >> Yeah, I think that's tough. I think that's tough. >> I think that's tough. >> And I I it's it's his realm. It's his realm. I'm doing my best. Um yeah, I guess I can all grow up. I wouldn't be a very good principal. I work for the kids. I work for you. I work for the kids. I wouldn't be a very good principal if I didn't get up here
109and defend the kids. I'm being funny, but kids are as good as they've ever been. Uh you know, I'm not here to advocate one way or another. I work with the system. I was asked to look logistically at fitment. And I looked at Lorac and about back to my logic point. Kids are as good as they've ever been. Think again, not to advocate. There are opportunities for kids to step up, be leaders, be part of um you know, I get a little goose as principal of Fairmont for years and I went there as a kid. So I probably have as much claim to emotional attachment K to 7 Fairmont than being principal as anybody. So I feel up and down the line how people are feeling about it. I'll speak to what I was asked
110to do, which was to look physically at the high school. I had really good communication with Dr. Quirk. Uh mission is could you transplant that building, the people, all the instructional spaces, and necessarily offices in a manner that kept it as isolated as possible because you want them to have their own space, but also to annex and access the spaces appropriately. So, my job was to look at to give Dr. Quirk uh understand the number of spaces that were needed, understand the office spaces that would be needed, understand egress, access, leave sort of the programming up to Dr. Quirk and others as they consumed a first draft, which you've seen some version of. It places every uh person who needs an instructional or office space in an instructional or office space that's in Lower A
111Bangor High School that would have its separate egress. Um My artist My digital media skills are decent. Uh you know, if I asked I shared with Mr. Young a little better version that sort of illustrates things a little bit better. What we're talking about is the back part of the building, A wing, upper and lower. Talking lower A wing. That dumps right out into a neat entrance. I'm imagining buses coming up, dropping students at a time of day when this campus is really quiet. You know, it's very busy from 7:45 until 8:00. And then you would think that um you know, the hurricane siren had gone off and everybody gone to cover because it's that quiet. Uh there is the opportunity for drop literal bus drive up with very little impediment or impediment from anyone
112on campus at that time. Uh they could start their day at their normal time with their normal spaces with greetings up front and a uh Um, you know, what is currently a three, two or three story building if you count the basement, and an annex into one long 330 ft space. I just played it's primarily English. Our English instruction happens in lower A, uh, and some portion of world languages uh, depending on, you know, I I threw out the first draft and conversations with Dr. Quirk. When I walked spaces, I didn't go kicking around and nose around Fairmount. I didn't want any speculation of fire. I know the building. I gave a good best informed guess of where the programs that I knew, the classrooms that I knew would best fit lower A. If you
113take a walk through, some classrooms are bigger than others. Uh, the real estate that you can't appreciate until you go and and see the results of move removing a bank of lockers, but the the footprint that results from removing those banks of lockers will surprise you. It feels, I'm not much of a dancer, but it feels like a dance hall. And if you were inclined to dance, you could have a very good dance in there. So, the idea is in lower A, uh, the process goes if if if ultimately if Fairmount's going to occupy lower A, we blast out those lockers and create a huge space. It's bigger of a space than you probably envision. I believe there would be room if there was a modified makeshift not to cheapen the experience, create a library.
114There's plenty of room to have a cafeteria. I can literally see the food services carts rolling down to the ramp, open the doors, and the kids are ready to eat. Um, I appreciate the concerns about mixing of students, but the nature of you know, the building if you were, uh, 2000 it was a renovation that connect for the purposes all uh, elements of the building. The catwalk is one way to take people down to lower right. That's a road very lightly traveled by kids. Um I don't think it would be a difficult thing to norm them out of being in that area. Just as I think it wouldn't be a difficult thing to re-cite kids to be part of a positive experience for students in various ways. Uh right now, so I I with my
115own institutional memory, my knowledge of the the building, things are in place. There are some refinements possible. We've been Right now, the draft, we're able to maintain some high school instructional space for languages. Right now, the net sum in terms of the question in terms of impact on on teachers, I'm not minimizing that. That's the as I think about how this unfolds, if this is the choice, I've got some very specific actions to put in place that are all theoretical at this point. The net result right now is there would be Right now, this is the first time I don't have the longest institutional memory at Bangor High School. It belongs to Tim Reed. And Tim Reed has said this is the the ironic thing here, and that that isn't meant to denigrate or to
116to downplay one option over the other. But Tim said the irony is this is the first year that Bangor High School teachers, in his knowledge, have had their own classroom. Like there's always been sharing of some type over the years. We do have some open classrooms. We don't have 19. Uh we'll probably end up with five people right now by my count, unless we do something uh creative, like truly creative, like create spaces that would be suitable for other instruction to take the the the uh you know, to take up the slack for what we're missing right now in terms of the one-to-one match between those displaced and you know, where they'll be teaching for a year. Uh I think it's possible, but we've stopped things at the point of knowing that first question's answered.
117We could put it down. I do think it could be cordoned off. It would be a dedicated entrance and exit. Things like the most recent thing that we talked through was and let's imagine ourselves in a day at Fairhaven School while being a high school counselor. They'll have IEP meetings. Oops, we didn't have a dedicated uh a dedicated conference space. Could probably create one. But, most of those meetings occur at a time when our primary meeting spaces are not used. So, most of the IEP meetings are after our first period bell rings. We have a clear protocol for welcoming families, ushering them down to those meetings, and conducting meetings in professional spaces that suit best. I would argue for that. Um other things is uh Kevin uh that space that if I do look at
118it, I'd walked it off today. It is uh it is uh 100 Paul Butler strides long and 28 strides the side. Do the math, ChatGPT tells me stride at 6'6" with 35-in inseam is about 39 in. You do the math. It's a decent space. It's equivalent to Fairhaven's and the space we found in 4D Street, not close. Good? Yes. But, nice while there there are all kinds of things. That's where I say not to sway opinion on this. I tend to take a we can do this approach to things. Maybe to a fault sometimes. But, this one feels like if that's the choice, then I'd be activating the positive thinking about what the possibilities are. Uh as for kids traveling through the building, I'll just give an example of that. I won't say the name
119of the person because it I went to a person who'd be critical in making this go, you know, it's for the sexual building. I just like, "Oh, I said, hey, let's say you had to fit in X number of classes over, you know, over a week, you 14 * 2, that'll give it away. 28 classes, could we do it? And they knew it was a serious conversation. They looked at me and they said, "Okay, if I say cool." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's okay. Just don't, you know, keep it hush-hush." Cuz I know the tension in this. There's a lot of tension. I have a lot of tension about this. What I said to the faculty last time when that was when, you know, we had gone through a process. Dr. Robinson contacted us and
120we said, "Whoa, that's really big stuff." A little time to sit with it. Um and then you start thinking about what what the possibilities are. You know, I we I think what we have right now is a good draft. Or both. It's not one or something like that. It's It's planned. We would be happy to host if that's the decision. We would do a good job to alleviate the fears if that's the decision and the concern. Uh we could have very little overlap between kids. But I think we should be hoping for a appropriate amount of really pro-social positive uh interactions between kids if that's the case. I spent most of my time uh because it's it's it may be I'm a little bit guilty of this. I spent most of my time thinking about
121what at the time I saw as the outlandish, "Whoa, fourth grade is up to the high school." When I started thinking about it, that to me that's the most fluid option. I didn't spend a lot of time with eighth graders cuz Dr. Robinson said it it's more difficult to imagine when you have fourth graders coming to the high school. They bring with for a great teacher who teaches primarily all their subjects. He's primarily one base. All right. It's more difficult to have 250 eighth graders and bringing the instruction. Bangor building's designed to maximize good instructional spaces suited for the content in different areas of the building. It's possible, yes, but >> I think I think member Sprague has a question. >> Well, my comments is to kind of bring it back to our own discussion,
122which is like I think one of the purposes of tonight was to kind of do a temperature check on where we're at, and I appreciate the commentary. If other people have questions directly for Principal Butler, I would let them go, but I do want to share some thoughts and see if we can kind of round it out a little bit. >> I really appreciate your intimate knowledge of Bangor High School. This is really helpful for >> Yeah. >> visualizing what this could look like. Are there specific questions about things that uh Principal Butler has mentioned? But member Speechesheck >> I do with Shelly and >> Member Perry, you want to go ahead? >> Yeah, I do. Um I heard mention about other models in the state that have similar schools in schools or just any
123through 12 or if a variation. Are you familiar with those models? >> I know of an active >> And you know their challenges and their >> I I haven't investigated. I can imagine some of them, but I'm not I wouldn't assume necessarily that we're I could have service here, but we would be happy if that's what we >> Yeah. Not to in depth actually cuz we have chosen this option. How we could overcome those challenges and how we're different in those other districts and you know how we can navigate those. >> Yeah, I mean certainly we're we're bigger school, bigger space. I don't think kids are much different. We're 90 miles up the road where whatever is happening, but we'd be happy to explore those things if you want to want me to. >> Member
124Speechesheck. >> Yeah, I I in looking at this plan, I think that there's obviously concern with parents' comfort of mixing the the age levels with um high school students and and 10 year olds. Um, you know, obviously the strength of this plan is you know, keeping the the school body together. It's you know, no disruption from the plans out there. Um, there is concerns of weakness of transportation of course from the other side of the city but we are um and to a direct follow up question that I have to to your comments is um specifically to physical education. I heard mention that kids would go to the gym from from the lower A wing and so walk me through that and I also want to give you the opportunity to talk about I mean
125everybody's been talking about keeping these kids separate. I I wonder if you could speak on your own your own thoughts of bringing them together the opportunities that >> Two birds one stone. >> kids would have actually >> Two birds one stone, dude. >> With the with Sprague efficiency. PE kids you got to go to PE. We've had a PE leadership class that's run off and on over the years so the kids are really motivated invested in the program, not necessarily athletes. PE leadership is part of the escorting of students from lower A up to B wing up to the gym. Maybe they go outside. Maybe PE can be some combination Mr. Wood who I was lucky enough to hire years ago, farewell perfect teacher. Uh, Mr. Wood accessing outdoor spaces. We have some of the
126most beautiful and our field hockey field is about as good a space as you can get. Um, accessing that during the school day for events, for PE things like that. I see opportunities for wheelchairs, those types of things. I see opportunity all kinds of opportunities along those lines. I think they're they're endless. >> Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. And Mr. Buck, you were >> Yeah, again, thank you. Appreciate it. I think I'm good. >> I have a question. >> Oh, you have a question first. >> Yeah, I permit sir or her Dr. Buckwright. Sorry then. I just you said that you would minimize overlap of the students in and amongst each other. I just want to address that because that is our number one concern. I mean, like how often would this happen outside
127of moving to PE? Do you anticipate there being other >> We have people who split all different ideas. Boy, you got a great library. Wouldn't it be nice to have the kids form? That would be one place if you want with it. Dr. Court from the teacher solar comes to good thing. We can facilitate it. There's literally ways to wind your way up from A-wing to this factor or any place that are more discreet and private that there's no synchronies, there are things like that um you know, uh could be minimized truly in my opinion and all the buildings laid out could be very instrumental. >> Thank you. And I just um I got it. Nothing. Oh, you just said five bathrooms. You think that five like uh like >> And I got to qualify
128this a little bit more. One of the strengths of Bangor High School in my opinion is the suites. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's uh people typically might not understand that. Uh suites are common spaces where desks are shared and all the things that go with close colleagues who work together in the same department. >> Yeah. >> Those are in jeopardy under this plan. >> Yeah. >> And you know, English gets displaced. Number one thing if that's the direction I would say English needs a suite because they need a place to call home. >> Yeah. >> about things like the library classroom, grading space in upper day. Maybe in January or Mr. Dr. Court comes through and says, boy, I can see this being I know you you marked it for. This would be better
129as >> Okay. >> My concern beyond the outside whatever decisions made, however Bangor High School is impacted, I get really concrete with the teachers. >> Yeah. >> And we start saying, here's how your department's impacted, which classrooms of the ones that are available uh would do you want to use so we can still maintain some of that uh department feeling >> Yeah, that's important. >> give people as much as possible their own instructional space, their own classroom. But, I will tell you, my opinion is, looking at it, it won't be possible for everybody to have a dedicated space. We'll go back to what's been a common practice here for many, many years and other schools, high schools, larger schools in particular, people have to share spaces. >> Thank you for that, Dr. Bailey. >> Thank
130you. I don't know if Shiana has a specific question and then uh member member Sprague and >> A quick question. If if looking at these timelines, we have to push out the 2 years, could we maintain that space for 2 years or would that >> Next question. Uh we'll do any of that. Whatever you tell us to do, we'll figure out how to do it. It's >> Thank you. >> I'll just say that this is not ideal. But, if we that's what you do when you you got needs. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Thompson. >> Thank you very much, Dr. Bailey. Appreciate it. >> Mr. Sprague, you've been patient. Okay, I appreciate it. I'm going to pick out on Principal Butler's dance hall thing and say when we were all younger and could go out,
131there's a time in the evening when you're so tired, but we got to rally for a second wind here to finish off this meeting. Uh I'm just going to comment a little bit about my own thought process in this and I want to thank people who spoken. It's brave to get up and stand in front of your neighbors and your friends and your teachers and your staff. And I really do still feel bad about the listening session that we did with the students at night. I guess I want to apologize on behalf of the school a little bit for that. Um separate conversation. But, my thought process all along this has been a do no harm philosophy. What option, we've all said it, will impact the fewest number of students in the least disruptive way
132for the shortest amount of time if we're talking temporary solutions. I think one point of confusion is that sometimes we are talking in the language of temporary, but the conversations do blend to these more permanent long-term ideas, which is part of the confusion here. I'll talk a little bit about options I don't really support. This is just me as one committee member. I don't support the eighth graders at the high school option. There's There's a big difference. I mean, they're closer in age, but there's a big developmental difference between 13 and 14-year-olds and 17 and 18-year-olds. I think it's too close and at the same time too different. I don't like that option for a variety of reasons. There's also a lot of logistics that go into getting the eighth graders back to the middle
133schools for activities, sports, and extracurriculars. I like aspects of the grade four at Mary Snow option three, grade five, six at Doughty, grade seven, eight at Cohen. I have an open mind about that because I think it's actually maybe a path to help produce some disparities between the two sides of the city and just build really good community pride across both sides of the city. Uh there's a lot to like there, but that does feel like a more permanent plan uh for sure. I I I I don't think the community is ready for that yet. We're seeing it in the listening sessions. We have not adequately explained why that is a viable plan. I don't think we've earned the trust to implement option three. The community is just not ready for such a tectonic shift
134in such a short period of time. Maybe September 2027. Who knows? So, where does that leave us now? It's back on this do no harm philosophy. I've already spoken tonight how I would love to exhaust every possible option to see if there's any way to eke out one more year at Fairmont. I mentioned I'm not handy, so it's far be it from me to judge the contractors. I feel like there's been pretty good explanation tonight. I would encourage us just to keep exhausting that until the very last minute if there's any way to save Fairmont. But, really on to the other options. I actually like the portables idea early on because I thought it was going to keep everybody together. We toured the portables at Fruit Street a couple years ago. They were very cozy.
135They were nice, but several million dollars and not available till November, not a viable option. The extra time here has provided opportunities for some further ideas. So again, I'm looking at it with this two-pronged thing. Temporary and the least disruption for the smallest number of students. I like the Bangor High School option for fourth and fifth graders. I can understand the concerns. I have some of them myself, too. But I really like the idea. I and not just a reluctant last-ditch thing, but I think it can be a truly special and uplifting experience for these kids for 1 year to bring them together in the A wing of Bangor High School. It keeps the Fairmount community together. Option three has fourth grade at Mary Snow and fifth grade at Downe. So you got a split
136right there of fourth and fifth grade staff and students. But this plan keeps everybody together for the year. It also avoids disrupting the other schools. I referenced my own middle school son. I don't want to be biased, but I sense he's going to be a seventh grader at Downe. We've heard from incoming eighth graders at Downe. Mostly, they don't want to go over to the other side, and I don't think the sixth graders from Cohen want to come over this side. We can have a community conversation about what that will look like over the long term. But these eighth graders, the one about the high school, but they deserve to have their last year at Cohen and Downe. And I respect people saying their concerns about the safety. They might look at other options. Well,
137we've also heard from eighth grade parents that they're going to look for other options if they have to switch sides or if they go to high school. Um so, I think this actually certainly disproportionately affects Fairmont, but it keeps the other schools intact to allow us some time to figure this out over the long term. Otherwise, you're going to have teachers from four different schools trying to move this summer when they should be on summer vacation. By the way, amplifying comment from last week, if we hear that student teachers are using their summer vacations to move and not getting paid and not getting boxes, you know, I'll flip this table over. Not tolerable to have that happen. >> That that's already been discussed. Boxes and compensation is going to be provided. I spoke with the
138PTA. >> Thank you. Excellent. I actually think this high school option could be one of the most special experiences of this these kids' lives where they I hope and believe they will look back and say, "Remember that year we were at the high school? Wasn't that so cool? We got that opportunity." I'm sensitive to the concerns about safety and intermixing. I think there's some ways you can mitigate that. Staggered start times is one of them. 8:00 versus 9:00. Separate exit. I went to Bangor High School here. Went to Fairmont, too. I believe the A wing can be separated off as this school within the school language we're always using. Uh and I I really believe, not to put it on the teachers to figure this out, but the staff and the teachers from Fairmont and
139from the high school and the parents and the volunteers and the community as a whole can rally behind these kids and make it a really special thing and not a reluctant last option, but a really affirming, exciting, and educationally rewarding experience. And I'm going to reframe this question about the high school kids because what my daughter is most excited about, my fourth grade daughter, next year fifth grade, is she wants to see if she can have Coach Moscat as her gym teacher. If she knows him from summer track. And she knows or recognizes 15 or 20 of these high school kids that help with the summer track program. She's done these youth theater shows some of the high school kids. And you know who is really awesome with 9, 10, and 11-year-olds? It's 15, 16,
140and 17-year-olds. It can be a beautiful thing. We can have mentorship opportunities. We have mentorship now between Doughty and Vine Street. It's really special. Everyone on both sides of that exchange loves it. Why not some of these high school students and the fourth and fifth graders? What if the high school students went out of their way to make these young kids feel welcomed and supported and wanted at high school next year? Can we have our music students in grade five get to do a rehearsal with the high school music kids? Or observe. Can we have the drama club at Fairmont get a chance to be on the stage at Peach Auditorium? Do we Could we have our Fairmont art students get a chance to see some of the high school art facilities? I think we
141just moved the Fairmont art teacher to the high school in our last meeting. So, I'm not blaming everything on her, but uh the kids the kids will have familiar faces there. And these after-school clubs, can we have the Key Club and the Environmental Club? I saw posters for young beekeepers on the ramp. My daughter would love to be a young beekeeper. Can we have the chess team at the high school? We've never had a chess club at Fairmont as long as I've known. In this room 2 years ago, we recognized the Mary Snow chess team for winning something, state championship. We've never had it at Fairmont, but there's a chess team at the high school. Could they help get something off the ground? I think so. So, I want to talk aspirationally about this. If
142this is the option, I think we have to role model optimism and stability to our kids. That is one reason I'm upset about the listening sessions cuz parents should be able to do that on their own accord. But everybody should also hold ourselves accountable to make sure every one of these concerns, which are justifiable, are completely mitigated to the extent possible. We have a plan and a backup plan and a backup plan to that. And on our website, before our next meeting, we have FAQs of the 40 questions that people are going to have with clear, full, thoughtful answers to every single concern that can come up. And I I want to have these parents that are reluctant about the high school be a part of any committee that we have. So their voices can
143be a part of this. And then we can talk together about September 2027. And it gives us time, a fair amount, to see if it can be and do we want it to be saved. We got a lot to talk about. And I'm going to finish up. Thank you for listening this far, if you're still listening. And I want to say to the teachers at Bangor High School that are disrupted by this, I've heard the number five classrooms. I heard there may be like 14, 15, 16 teachers in English and world languages that could be impacted by this. I recognize they're they would have concerns, too. And I have gratitude and like real affection for these teachers in my heart because it's my daughter that they're moving for. And it's 250 other sons and daughters
144that they would be moving for. And it's what we need right now. It's what the department needs right now because there's no other clean solution. And that's what it's going to have to be, I think. It's an imperfect solution, but it's the best solution, and it's going to be okay. And I appreciate that those teachers are going to be the ones to be make the sacrifice cuz I bet when the Fairmont news broke, they weren't expecting the ripple effects with this place Bangor School Department at Bangor High School. So, I recognize that, and I want to say thank you to them. So, my point of view from where we are tonight is to take the next week to completely exhaust every possible route on Fairmont. And if we can't, we go to BHS or our
145fourth and fifth graders at Fairmont. We keep every other school intact, every other staff group intact. And we're going to do it in a righteous, affirming, and uplifting way these kids next year. >> Um I hate to follow up with that. Um and there has been a lot of airtime given to um Fairmont and BHS, which I do fully support for all of the reasons that I mentioned mentioned here tonight. But I do have some I do have some remarks that I want to make about option three though because I think and and members correct me if I'm wrong, you mentioned this and member Spearing, you mentioned this as a long-term plan, and I absolutely agree. And I know that it's late and I but I I do want to I want to put this
146out there about option three as a long-term goal uh of the system uh discussions and conversations for for years to come um because I think it's really important and I look forward to engaging in those types of discussions as a a parent and a community member. I like option three, but only as a starting point for discussions around long-term plans for consolidation of schools and integration of students across the entire city. These are discussions I look forward to being a part of as a parent and a member of the school community in the years to come. I want to talk a bit about the benefits of integrating students earlier across the city of Bangor. The three most significant external determinants of a student's academic success, their academic trajectory, are their parents, caregivers level of educational
147attainment, the level of economic advantage or disadvantage in that family, and teacher quality. There's some really good news here. No matter what school or on which side of the city, all Bangor students have access to some of the highest quality teachers in the state of Maine, and I truly mean that. No matter where students end up in the fall, they're going to be welcomed and they're going to be cared for by our our trusted educators. We don't have much data on differences in educational attainment level of parents and caregivers on one side of the city versus the other, but we do have rock-solid data on differences in socioeconomic status among families. According to various state and national-level sources, year after year at the William S. Cohen School on the east side of Bangor, the percentage
148of students who qualify as economically disadvantaged is typically between 30% and 40%, whereas year after year between 60% and 70% of students at the James F. Doughty School on the west side of the city qualify as economically disadvantaged and qualify for free or reduced lunch, nearly double the rate at the Cohen School. Just to give you some context, a family of four would need to have a total household income of $41,795 or less to qualify for free lunch, and a total household income of between $41,796 and $59,478 qualify for reduced lunch. I believe, and evidence supports, that integrating students from across the city earlier in their pre-K-12 grade experience will diminish a culture in Bangor of concentrating students in schools based on their economic class, and would contribute to a rising tide lifting all boats
149phenomenon in which academic standards and expectations, access to expanded school-provided academic and social enrichment opportunities, and social and peer pressure around academic excellence would rise, and this would benefit and lift all students, particularly those students from economically disadvantaged families. My hope is that these types of conversations will continue at the school and school community level in the years ahead. Thank you. >> Yes. >> And And we are we are getting late. It's an almost 9:00 clearly, and I'm hoping I'm getting equal time. I'm getting equal time here. >> Yeah, I don't have a solidarity vote. >> I have a model. >> But I do think it's fair to say that I I fully agree with both points shared, and I do think that this is from my personal perspective an incredible opportunity for the fourth
150and fifth graders at Paramount. I'm happy to support it. I just can't And I just want to be be mindful of the fact that the optics of this are you guys have to figure it out. You can't come here. And there are other options on the table that provide so many other opportunities to integrate at a larger level. I do not think we are ready for that. I do not think we can do that. I want to be clear on that. I do not think that, you know, it's going to we should rush it so that we're all in this together, which was my original thought. When this first came up, I thought, what a great opportunity for us to combine at the city and have that, you know, shared work and and really collectively
151experience this together. I didn't want it to be, oh my gosh, Paramount, that really is a bummer. You good luck. It should be something that our entire city feels. I also have heard from Paramount that this is their community. This is important for them to stay together. I would never want to just for an optics performative reason say that that's not going to work for me. I think that there's plenty of data, plenty of evidence, plenty of feedback. So I'm grateful that we have the opportunity to collect that that the Fairmont community wants to stay together. I just think that we have to be really mindful of the fact that this does have to reconfigure families on one side of the district from one school that have right now quite a bit of um scheduling
152options available to them that are no longer on the table and that's a real hardship. And so, while I'm 100% on board with positive thinking, I'm 100% on board with recognizing disparities, I just think we have to say it out loud and really make that a part of the narrative, too. Thank you, Bangor High School, you know, um English for being so welcoming and thank you, Dr. Butler, for helping us figure this out. And also, thank you, Fairmont, for being flexible and recognizing that's a huge disruption to your school and your school alone and those families and those families alone and it would be preposterous for us to be up here and say, "That's great." when we're not personally impacted by it. And that is hard for me cuz I was like, "Oh, I'm going
153to get on board with this. I've got three kids in the system. We're all going to be in this together." and it feels a little bit Yeah, performative to be like, "This is great." cuz it doesn't impact us and I just I want to acknowledge that and say that it's I I feel very positive about it, but it is important to recognize the disruption and the gratitude for whatever comes out of this um that, you know, we we still want to be a community in this and supporting everyone with this these hard decisions. >> All right, I I feel like we're at that point where we've we've exhausted a lot of the the questions and comments. >> Nice job. >> We have a motion. Mr. Stack, to speak? >> Yeah, I think it's worth um
154pointing out also we got I mean, students are not the only ones who are human, which is um not really I'm important to understand, but staff impacts, I think are important as well. And so I I just want to thank the teachers involved and and all the schools that would be impacted by these options. But I wanted to to also get a little bit more information about what that impact might look like um for for staff. Or would we need to you know, we've got a a breakdown a rough breakdown of costs, but how would teachers uh by contract be impacted uh per se by option number two? Would we have to renegotiate contracts? Would that seniority come into play? What what would that look like? And and how would if this is a beyond
155one year, how do we ensure stability for staff in their assignments? And is it a reassignment that would happen? What would what would that look like? >> There's uh no need to re- you don't need to renegotiate the contract at this point. Um the provisions that would be put into place in terms of boxes and compensation uh would be a memorandum of understanding. Um this was done precedent um set back with the Mary Snow that was happening when I first arrived a couple of years ago. Um so teachers at that point when the Mary Snow work was done, they were compensated that way. Uh if it gets into a longer term piece, that would be something to consider uh you know, beyond that time. Uh what does that look like? Uh but in terms of
156the staff themselves, uh they would be allocated an amount of time and then paid for that time. >> All right, it's it's very late. We have administrators that I I know need to get up very early tomorrow morning. Um I want to thank everybody for their their excellent comments, their excellent questions from um Superintendent Robinson and uh the administrative team. Uh so much information and so many gaps were filled in for me and I know for others and I I hope this was beneficial uh to all of those here and and those of you watching from home. Uh could I get a motion to adjourn? >> So moved. >> I'll second. >> Second. >> All those in favor? Can I have a discussion? We get to discuss. I'm I'm wondering if you could share some
157of that and perhaps Superintendent Robinson lay out next steps between now and 9 days from now and please let's all tell the assembled like um so that others would be aware what to be on the lookout for uh because last opportunity to get to thank uh the staff and administrators, Superintendent Robinson, and the direct for the information that has been provided and communication that has been been provided. That's small the team, but um it's important that we get it right and it may take time and we're seeing that work come through and uh Zabel number studies point about having those ID keys on the page of the accessibility but you could speak to for the public and and the folks in the audience, what does the next 9 days look like? >> Sure. Um we'll
158be updating the webpage with the items that have been discussed this evening, um connecting with Carpenters and Associates to get um further information around facilities. Um and then at this point um potentially solidifying some plans, but again, we need a decision before we can dig in. So, um I know that the staff and the administrators are anxiously awaiting a decision so that they can take that and run with it, which I know they'll do. Uh so yeah, updating the website with information and connecting with Carpenters at this point. >> Thank you Superintendent Robinson. All those in favor of adjournment? >> Seven up. >> We are adjourned. Thank you. Six up. Six up. Six up.