001All right. Good evening. I have 5:30. Uh so let's call our meeting to order and let's rise for the pledge. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and [clears throat] to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right, I'll ask board members to review the consent agenda items. If there are no requests to uh pull an item for discussion, uh we'll move along to the meeting agenda. I approve or I move to approve the agenda as presented. >> Second. >> Okay. Uh there we have a motion and second on the agenda. Any further discussion of the agenda? Hearing none. Uh show of hands. All in favor of approval of the agenda. Oppose. Same sign. All right. Motion carries.
002We have an agenda. All right. That brings us to reports and presentations. Ella White, good news. >> Do I Summer Do I need to click something to get up on the monitor? Come up. >> Is it up there? There we go. All right. Um, I wanted to first of all, um, say thank you for the board for having us here tonight. We are excited to share some of the great things going on at Ella White. Um, I wanted to thank the community for being here tonight and our families. Thank you so much for bringing our amazing students um to be a part of this tonight. So um I thought a lot about what we wanted to share with you tonight. Um and what we decided was to share with you some nuggets of creativity that
003are happening at Elite that support the whole child. So as you all are very aware part of the strategic plan or one of the pillars is whole child development. That has a lot to do with those um posit behavioral supports that are in place um and making sure that we're focusing on not just the academics but all things that um lead into development of great students. So I think it was last year Claire shared with me that she had this idea for a fifth grade choir. um she thought not only would it be beneficial for our kiddos because it develops leadership, it develops um their musical ability and it gives them something that they're really passionate and excited about, but it also helps the um greater APS choir program because hopefully they get a little
004bit excited about it and then want to take it further um at the junior high and high school. So, we got a little creative and that little seed of an idea turned into our sore singers. They are a passionate group of kiddos who bring joy to not only themselves um but our entire school community and it's something that our kids um are really really proud of. Like, you know, an adult can get up in front of the entire school and there's still a whisper here and there, but when the sore singers get up in front of the entire school, it's silent because they tr they truly treasure them. So, what we did, so where do they sing? So, they first of all, they um practiced [clears throat] were practiced last year during fun Friday. Um,
005and then they did things like sing at our PBIS assemblies, sing at the Christmas choir or the Christmas concert. Um, that fast forward to this year changed a little bit because we couldn't get choir and fun Friday matched [clears throat] up. So instead, the fifth grade teachers um decided to once again get creative. And while the sore singers are practicing, our the rest of our fifth grade um students are doing community service. So you can see a couple of examples up on the screen. They're outside making sure that our um our community is clean. They're handing out thank yous to staff members, to students, um putting up signs around the school, encouraging um um all of the sore um things that we're looking for. Right. Yeah. Um and encouraging staff and students alike. So, it's
006a really cool. So, we've got this awesome choir going on, then we've got this awesome community service going on. And um it really has made a huge difference. So, I like this year's model the best. And so, here [snorts and clears throat] um this year's source singers sang um uh um to at the Veterans Day assembly. Um and that was a really really special moment I think for them and for the the veterans. Okay, before I go to the last slide, I'm going to let you guys take the spotlight um and share with us. Do you want them to turn this way so that you can see them, too? >> Okay. >> Well, we'll be singing the national anthem. So, if you could stand Say by the dawn early [singing] light so proud we held
007at the twilight [singing] last stripes and [singing] bright stars through the spy. The weed [singing] were so gallent and the rockare [singing] bursting gave proof through the night [singing] that our flag was still there. Oh, say [singing] does that star spangle for [singing] the land of the home of the brave. [applause] So, um, not only are we highlighting the kiddos and the work they're doing, um, but, um, I I feel so fortunate to work with such amazing staff. Um, Claire, you do a beautiful job with the choir. That is a very hard song as most of you know. [applause] um and the songs she does with them are so awesome and so engaging and I appreciate you um coming to me to get this started and the fifth miss to our fifth grade teachers for
008thinking outside the box so that we could make it happen. Um so one other little thing I wanted to note um it's not just our classroom teachers it's not just our choir teacher but now Mr. King our um and you can't tell anybody this yet. Okay. Uh Mr. King came to me and said, "Hey, I know sometimes recess can, you know, day after day be a thing. Uh you know, that's where sometimes we have some little behavior start." And so he said, "What if I ran a basketball tournament?" >> Yeah. >> What if I ran an organized basketball tournament during recess? Um so he's going to start with fifth grade because they are an awesome group. Um and he'll have some assistance that'll be organized. They'll do a basketball tournament. So just trying to think
009of not just the academics but um the whole child. >> Oh, he told you already. What do you guys think? >> So obviously you can embed a whole lot of teaching into both of these things. Um and that's why I think our staff is absolutely amazing. So thank you for letting us share with you tonight. Thank you guys for being here tonight. I know you all have other places to be. So, [applause] [applause] >> thank you all so much for coming. Wonderful presentation. Thank you. Maybe there's that future national anthem hockey, you know, like there's always an APS student that sings all the hockey games. Maybe [clears throat] >> they could do it. I know. I Yeah. Yep. >> Yep. >> All right. Thank you guys. All All right. Okay. [cough] [clears throat] So, I
010was just going to do a little uh debrief summary conversation about our uh reimagine our future uh together which we um had two meetings last week. Um so, just looking back uh because there were some questions around timeline. Uh I think people felt like we sprung this on the community. Uh so I just wanted to take a minute to to remind everyone uh on the 6th which is next Saturday I think not this coming Saturday but the following Saturday uh it was two years ago that uh Anna and I met with Dan Wakeakeman to first talk about uh how we might approach the strategic plan. So since that time we've been meeting with Dan regularly. Uh the board met regularly to discuss strategic planning. In February of 24, uh a year and a half ago,
011um we met with the community members to uh talk about uh strengths and weaknesses in the district. And from that meeting back then, we identified the need for a long-term plan for facilities and maintenance. Uh we've met countless times since then as a board as administrative teams and um the parent advisory committees and different groups like that. Um all talking about um you know everything strategic plan but in specific uh long-term the need to long-term plan because so currently right now uh we have the reimagine uh the future project. We also have the nice to have list of projects that we've been working on. Um you and I toured Ellawite uh not too long ago to look at plans that we're partnering with AMA to bring improved services and possibly some facility updates um for
012our students at Ellaw White. Uh so there's an awful lot going on around our facilities. Um and so uh this reimagine the whole purpose is to not be in a position where we have to come to this board and make a decision in the next 2 3 months 6 months even a year a decision of making significant structural ch or um you know programmatic programmatic changes um closing buildings repurposing buildings um I feel that we've been clear from the beginning of this process. We are good financially. Um we're in a position where we do not have to make any decisions and so why not take that time to look at the future and prepare for different scenarios. Uh so I guess the the great news is we have the attention of the community which was
013always the intent uh to involve the community because after all it is the community school district. Um and you know uh looking forward to moving forward with that and continuing to partner with them. So uh last week we had two meetings where we rolled out two scenarios. Those scenarios have been in development since May Juneish. U and they are simply scenarios as we stated uh at that those sessions. This isn't a choose scenario A. It's not a choose scenario B. It might be I like this piece. I don't like this piece. One doesn't lead into the other. Really the primary purpose of the presentation was to get people thinking around what do we do in our context and our context is we have been declining enrollment for 50 years and while we have uh I
014just did some numbers I think Philheimroll will run a story uh sometime this week. While our numbers since 2020 are up slightly, the [clears throat] 10-year decline that we looked at continues. So again, since 2020, we are up slightly in enrollment, but when you look at 10 years ago, we are still heading down on that same uh downward trajectory. So again, why not now take time to say there's a pretty good chance that that trend is going to continue. If it if it doesn't, wonderful. But if it does, we would rather be prepared and have put some thought into um how we might uh operate the district differently. Um so no, we're we're not looking to close buildings. We're not looking to cancel busing busing, which is a rumor that's out there right now. Um
015we're simply looking at the reality um and trying trying to predict the future to the best of our ability. Uh so we have 172 people have responded uh so far to the survey. So for those of you that have done that, thank you very much. We need more feedback. Um and I will I I wasn't going to share it because sometimes when you share the results then if people don't see what they want then they'll go and vote to get it to the way they want. So I can share it with the board. Uh but I figure we want to definitely over this next three weeks get more input from the community. Uh we have great opportunity with so many events going on at schools and uh thank you. I think I saw Diane back
016there for the suggestion of putting the survey the QR code at all the the Christmas concerts that are coming up and just try to get as many people to weigh in on this uh survey as possible. Uh so I have a meeting scheduled with King Scott for next week to just kind of debrief and look at the feedback we have so far. U and then we're going to try in the next three weeks here uh leading up to I guess it's a little more than three but up till Christmas break um try to get as much feedback on a survey as possible. Um we can put it on the December board agenda as well. uh but it'll certainly be on the January board agenda of just looking at the feedback officially and saying this is
017what we've heard from the community thus far. We then go back to King Scott and they have you know a phase and a half left in their process to take that feedback uh and you know come up with new scenarios, modify the current scenarios, uh do something else along those lines. Again, the great news is we're not looking at a January deadline or a February deadline. We are looking three years down the road, three years or more. So, we have the the luxury of time. Uh I think there was one other thing I wanted to mention. Um but it escapes my mind right now. So, I'm just >> uh >> I Oh, go ahead. on the trajectory I guess what would be uh the trigger to so let's say we run for three years at
0183600 students I guess where do you start to pull that trigger on it's time to make a change? >> Yeah. Uh so before I answer that question and you reminded me too, we did do a um enrollment study. Um so back in 2019 I think a 5-year study was done uh by the previous administration. Um and what happens is you get three scenarios. Best case least le um least case worst case and then most likely scenario. U so I had that redone um last year. So that we now have five more year projections and the most likely scenario over those five years is a loss of another 300 students. So that's roughly you know 8% of our current population. We have not yet done projections to say you know if each year we lose 2%
019or something like that when would we have to make decisions? uh Mary is comfortable right now that this year and next we are in no need to make such decisions but once you get into three and four years then it becomes a little bit more difficult to to uh predict and and do the sorts of things but you know we'll take this time to look at the the scenarios and then kind of layer it over with our as we dive down and do some of those calculations and projections we can start to come up with some numbers of if we get to this point that's warning sign number one. If we get to this point it's warning sign number two. >> Okay. >> So it's not a [clears throat] we can make a gradual and
020keep keep an eye on it year by year. >> Yes. Yeah. And I guess I'll say that again just so everyone we we don't anticipate having to make a dramatic decision a drastic decision in at least three years. Um and if we can prepare and make adjustments uh you know as we move forward uh then that horizon moves further down the road. But there is no financial crisis right now or in the near future. And back to the uh subject of the uh information coming in. I just want to remind board members to do your survey if you haven't already. I did mine this morning. Yeah. I I was surprised that there were only two scenarios offered. >> Yeah, we went back and forth, but you know, and I guess we could have done it
021a couple of ways. We could have held community forums with no ideas in mind. And we just felt that if we did that, we would come away, if we had 150 people, we'd come away with 150 scenarios. And so again, they did their research. [snorts] Sorry, cut myself off here. They did their research, studied our buildings, came up with scenarios as talking points, something for us to work off of. So, I got two things I want to bring up about this. And before I do, I want to say that I I completely support the planning ahead for um potential enrollment declines. I think it's responsible. It's necessary. I'm glad we're doing it. So, I want to say that first. But I have to say I was really disappointed how this was shared and brought out
022to the community quite honestly. Um throwing out extreme or very bold scenarios to just I think it was exactly what was it a trigger response caused a lot of unnecessary worry. Um I don't know how they do it downstate but I don't think our rural community deserve that quite honestly. And you could see in the meeting it was nice how we were set up as board members. We could actually see the faces of the parents that were there and you could see see they were frustrated. They were confused. There was some that even left the room early in that presentation and most of the questions weren't answered that they had questions to. Um, and the second thing that I wanted to bring up is this weekend I thought to myself, I'm like, I'm going to
023do a little looking into these numbers and everything. And I know back in April when we voted for King Scott, um, board member Costain brought up doing AI. Um, so I actually got on AI and took some of the slides with the numbers and punched everything in and said, "Bring up a scenario if our enrollment continues to decline at this rate." Verbatim scenario one. I put in there, I want to keep Hanks. Can you bring up another scenario verbatim with Hanks turning into the middle school or STEM program? Um, I just thought that we could have probably done this ourselves, honestly. And I'm just I'm really disappointed. It took me 5 minutes to do that and actually it was really interesting getting on AI and putting in a bunch of different scenarios and I I
024have some really good ideas actually from it. So all in all, like I said, I support 100% what we're doing, but I think it was shared wrong and I think that we could have done a lot of this ourselves. >> Okay. I would have liked to have seen a little more uh depth I guess on the what I think it was scenario one where moving the seventh and eighth graders over to the high school. So they dropped that and they say we'll have to figure something out. I guess I would have liked to have seen a little more info on that. What are we figuring out? What do we What are the problems with that? >> So I think that's what this time period is to do. >> They they but the King Scott is
025going to give us that >> if we provide the feedback and the direction they can go back and dig deeper with that with us. >> That is potentially coming. >> Okay. That was not relayed. I thought this is it. Sign the check. Thank you very much. >> Not at all. >> Okay. I did not know there was another whole set of figures going into this. >> Yeah. And I I did that at the Wednesday. Um kind of went through the process. So >> Okay. >> So the process is now they get the feedback to the scenarios and then we integrate that feedback to what level we can. >> I was making roping for Hanks. [laughter] you know and it's easy um sure you know now we could look at it and say we should have
026done it this way that way and all those sorts of things I feel it's been very valuable u we've started a conversation and uh I think that's valuable because if you look at the feedback we've gotten so far Uh essentially if it involves how do you feel about change? Overwhelmingly um they're against it. How do you feel about keeping things the same? Overwhelmingly in support of that and we can we can go off of that feedback and at some point we will have no choice but to make those changes. So, I'm hoping um you know now that the initial shock, the initial whatever has has moved on because you can actually see it in the responses after this initial wave of don't do anything. Um you started to get more people that say, well, I
027can see where this might work, but we want to think about that. So, we started to get, you know, some more um you know, uh [clears throat] I don't want but there was more to the feedback other than don't do anything. This is the process. Uh again, we don't have to do anything and that's the great news. Um but at some point, uh I'm guessing we will have to do something. And so better to have ideas, um and have the community input when we have to make those decisions. >> And to Monica's point, um I think that maybe now this hopefully they will they will follow through. Uh, I think King Scott had discussed coming back to those questions that were not answered in the session. Uh, and I think we should hold them to
028that. Um, say, "Hey, look, you know, these questions were asked. What about those?" Uh, I'm hoping they'll watch the recording and, you know, >> pull those questions off, you know, off of that recording and and make sure that they've got answers, uh, you know, when they come present again. Um, and, um, yeah, I hope that'll get done. >> Yep. >> Oh, actually, I did have one other thought. I I was I I found this to be kind of an interesting process. And and one thing that sort of fascinated me was this question of the the plan of leaving the sixth grade out in the country elementarymentaries and dividing up the uh the grades in the city. And I thought, well, that seems to me in a sense like maybe an an urban solution to an
029urban problem. Um not that we're entirely urban, but you know, you get the idea. But then I thought well maybe that's maybe that's appropriate in that you have one kind of solution and approach for the country elementarymentaries which are clearly something different. Uh and then you have uh I mean it's a very interesting question. Uh so I enjoyed that part of it. Uh I like the fact that we don't have to do anything that we can just sort of cogitate on this. Um and and again that all important feedback from the public. I'm really happy we have what you said 172 responses. >> Yeah it was 172 just before I came in here. >> That's a good start. I would encourage the public to keep those coming. Um and we'll just go from there again
030without worrying about doing anything immediately. >> If I can just highlight one other uh response. Wrong password. But one of the questions is it's fiscally responsible to reduce the square footage of the school district. Um strongly disagree uh so far in our results. So, and then the other response so far is you know um it is important to maintain rural schools regardless of enrollment. I don't disagree, but when it comes down to it, at some point we have to make decisions uh in any building, let alone rural. If there's 10 students in the building, u is it fiscally responsible to keep that build building open? We just went through this with ACES about 3 years ago. Building built for 368 students was housing 50 students at most. It just didn't make financial sense to keep
031that building open. Um, so I understand I don't want to see change. Nobody wants to see change, but this is about preventing those whatif scenarios or at least approaching them as agreeably as possible. I know, you know, all this is like kind of out [cough] in the distance, [clears throat] but is there any discussion about some things happening sooner just to kind of, you know, maybe a little bit of a a band-aid, right? Like for example, you this building impacting staff, you know, is it easier to change something about moving administration somewhere? um or is it too challenging to do little things without knowing the big picture? >> So, the easy move is central office administration that we can find a a nook and cranny somewhere. Um, but you're sitting on a very large piece
032of property and a building um that you know we want to make as few of those temporary moves as possible uh may not be avoidable. But if you know we move central office to the high school for a temporary period and then we decide that we're going to do something more longer term. um you know, wasn't necessary to make those those changes. And that's all I'm trying to do is central office could pack up tomorrow and go somewhere else in the district and then we could sell this building or we could uh just shutter it for a while. And uh but I don't know if that's in the best interest of the long-term health of the district. Could you put all the offices and stoages that are here in F house? That's what King Clark
033or King Scott said, wasn't it? >> That was one of their scenarios. So, I would say it based on their calculations, it would make sense, >> but there's there's many things that have to go into place before you do that cuz you'd be displacing students and teachers into different parts of the building. But >> in theory, yes. >> In theory. >> Yep. >> Okay. And I guess I'll take this opportunity too because when we sold ACES and now with Emanuel uh having purchased that building and then they're going to do a high school, everyone said that was short-sighted thinking. We cannot restrict the use of a building uh when we sell it. So we couldn't have put into the deed, you know, that this could no longer be used as a school building. It's not
034allowable uh by state law. So if we sold uh this one as well, that would then make two buildings that are potentially available for someone else to come in and run schools. Um but even at that, you know, it's still the right decision. And when the numbers make it the right decision, um it it does. But you just need to know that at some point if we sell buildings then they can be used for um by other uh entities to become schools. And I did speak to the family of Hinks uh that donated it. Had a nice conversation with one of the family members who had heard we were selling it and I said, "Well, no, we aren't selling it. We're just looking at the future." So, any other thoughts on this topic that the
035board would like to share or discuss? All right. Well, thank you for the presentation and the discussion and uh thank you board members. Um let's uh let's move along then. Uh if there's nothing further there, we have uh our time now for citiz citizens or delegations to address the board. As I said last time, I think our uh guidelines for public comment are well disseminated throughout the community, even potentially the entire state. So I think everybody knows uh you know uh everybody gets three minutes. Uh you know, keep it civil and um uh yeah, that's basically the important stuff. Uh do Oh yeah and do just state your uh you know your community affiliation or your area of residence not your specific address but just about where you live. Thank you very much. Let's begin.
036>> Good evening. Uh thank you for uh the opportunity to speak. My name is Nathan Skiibby. I'm a Hank uh parent and a Hank F or husband. Hopefully a Hank parent a couple more times. um uh observations from uh the the meeting I missed unfortunately on Monday the 17th and then the the following meeting on the 19th in regards to the King Scott presentation and scenarios one and two. I appreciate some of the board members comments as to um the uniqueness of scenarios one and two being the only scenarios pushed. Um bold is one thing but bold with a common denominator that has more or less a similar function towards and it is a bias um towards a school of choice for myself and obviously employment for my wife. Um things start to sway there.
037Um I I noticed the things I noticed through that um presentation were basically the framework that started the conversation square footage cost gross square footage cost uh the transportation conundrum and the declining student body all of which are very valid uh concerns transportation conundrum is you can't make 604 square miles a smaller space um but one thing that did come up in the first meeting that I heard uh Dr. Rabbit say is that in comparison to the seven other largest districts within the state, we only receive 75% of the funding that those districts receive. That I would implore that would be one of the the first steps that I think that would be a valid one is to explore why that 25% isn't on the table for us. Um, that being said, you could also
038then look at [clears throat] some other options as to, you know, I thought that the sixth grade conversation was a very valid one. Um, when I went through elementary school, sixth grade, it was K through six. Um, was just fine. If we look at the history of APS, uh, sixth grade was probably cut out because they needed the justification for the square footage of the current junior high. Um, so now we've kind of done an about face on that topic. Um, but I think that has some validity. Um, obviously here we are at Gordon Road. Um, I I also agreed there are gems in that uh scenarios even as much as I disagree with both of them on their merit. Get out of this building. Save that 15,000 square foot whether it's upstairs unfortunately with
039the the unusable uh space for education at uh Lincoln or at F house that was previously mentioned. Uh Hinks is a wonderful place. Placebased education has merit. I've been working on placebased education through Nemi Gleason as my time as supervisor for a lot of years. We have opportunities throughout our community. All the schools in our district could go to Hanks. It doesn't mean that it has to be a magnet school just for that singular purpose. Um and also looking at the ease for parents. Besser is popular because it houses busing and gives affordability and opportunities for parents within the urban setting. Um, but you have M32 bus garage, sell it, get it on the market, get this on the market, fix things. The tax base is what you need. So, there's my three minutes. Thank
040you very much for your time. >> Thank you very much. My name is Bruce Heath and I'm a resident of Oeneique. And uh couple topics I'd like to talk about today. Um the Michigan State School Board approved sex education to be moved into health education. That's a disaster in my humble opinion. And um I don't think this conservative community is going to enjoy having the transgender LGBTQ plus made mandatory to be taught to every student. And I think that the board should look very carefully about not employing that curriculum and standing up to the Michigan State School Board and say, "No, we're not going to do this. It's not for our community." Um I was listening to the um retreat that you had and [clears throat] several nuggets came out to me that were very
041interesting. One was um I think 48% of the teachers had five or less percent five or years or less time at the school district. That means we got a problem retaining teachers at the school district. And I've also seen that in this administration's uh tenure, the scores have fallen rapidly and nothing's really being done. We don't have a um summer school remediation program for students that need help. And we got a lot of students in this school district that need help. And um I think that we need to look at who the coach is in this administration. You can't fire everybody on the school board. I think we need to look at the coach and see what kind of job he's doing because I think the results don't warrant his continual contract. I think we
042need to have some emergency changes in curriculum, teaching phonics, and get after these kids because 1 to 2% each year isn't going to cut it for this school district. We're losing badly. Thank you. I'm going to touch on as many of these topics as I can with the three minutes that I've got. Okay. Should any one person >> Sir, would you state your would you state your name? >> Yep. My name is Adam Minton and I live in Alpena City Limits. So, should any one group of of people or a single person be allowed to come into our school districts and and change or teach their personal beliefs? I think we can all agree that answer should be no. Okay. School should be fact-based. Okay. So, over this past week, I watched the interim state
043superintendent, Dr. Sue Carnell, be questioned uh by oversight chair Rep. Doro. Okay. He asked her, "How many how many genders are there?" And at first she refused to answer. So he asked her again and her response was different people have different beliefs on that. So since when is our schools in any state in this nation teaching beliefs, right? We should be teaching facts, fact-based. Okay? And even the US Supreme Court recently ruled that even transgender individuals have to have their sex that they were assigned at birth on their passports. Okay? So now I understand those people may be confused. They may feel that this is what they need. Okay? And that's that's their prerogative, what they do in their home. I don't seek to make decisions for anybody else and I don't seek to control
044what they do. Okay? But that doesn't give them the right to force it on the rest of us who don't believe in that. Okay. Um maybe the answer is uh restrooms, an additional set of restrooms for those individuals, additional set of locker rooms, whatever the case may be. Um but there's definitely some some privacy policy that needs to be passed for sure. Um, so and I think we can all agree there's not a baby that's been born, okay, that can say, "Hey, I born in the wrong body." Okay? No baby even knows what a body is when they're born. So that just goes to show that that's that's something that's taught. That's something that's cultivated and believed. So I think we need to keep that out of our school system. We need to be a
045fact-based so these kids when they get into regular society know what facts are, know what beliefs are. And um so I'm going to leave it at that. But anyway, um if it were me and I had the choice, I think truly we need a new superintendent. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh Ryan French, Alpena County, uh two children in the Alpena public schools. At the last board meeting, the president suggested uh that people might consider quote seeking outside con counsel before making a speech. So I did just that. I reached out to an outofstate lawyer that specializes in constitutional law. He sent the following quote. In New York Times versus Sullivan, the United States Supreme Court held that public officials may not silence criticism by threatening defamation lawsuits. When citizens speak about the conduct of
046public officials, including schoolboard members, the First Amendment gives that speech the highest level of protection. To prove defamation, a public official must show not only that a statement was false, but that was made with actual malice. meaning the speaker knew it was false or seriously doubted its truth. That's an extremely high bar intentionally because our democracy depends on parents and community members being able to question, criticize, and hold those officials accountable without being intimidated or threatened. It would be difficult for someone any under any standard, let alone Sullivan to defame one of them. Close quote. Nothing that been has been said at this podium by any speaker from either side has come even remotely close to defamation. And as far as I know, not a single speaker has been asked to stop speaking by this
047board except when someone simply ran out of their three minutes. So, while I understand the president's point that the second public form can sometimes get bogged down with infighting, I struggle with the idea that he has quote unwavering commitment to the first amendment when he suggests that people need outside counsel for something that clearly does not require it. Those words, in my opinion, were meant to intimidate people and discourage them from speaking at this meeting. So, to everyone here and everyone listening at home, do not let these words prevent you from using your voice. Do not let them keep you from speaking your mind, no matter what side you're on. In closing, I want to recognize the student who spoke at the October meeting. Her speech was smart, well-crafted, and delivered with more composure than
048many of the adults who stand at this podium. She deser deserved to be acknowledged. Instead, not one board member mentioned her speech during open your open discussion. Even one thanked the speaker that came before her while ignoring the student who followed. That moment says a lot about what these meetings have drifted away from or what some up here have forgotten entirely. The kids. The mission of our school is to build future leaders. That student showed she's already becoming one and this board failed to say so. I know not everyone up there will hear this, but I'm asking you sincerely to remember the students you're here to serve. Thank you very much. [applause] Who's next? My name is Chris Sanders from Leasheen and I want to say thank you to to you and I hope that
049since I can only address you that you you would hand that to the um to the other board members. Um, it's encouraging to me to see that we [clears throat] have a school district that is not in financial distress and from with my extensive background in business, I'm also encouraged to see that we're not waiting for an emergency to plan. Now, I may not be a personal fan of either of the two options that were put out last week, but I'm at least encouraged that we're thinking about it, that we're trying to plan, that we're we're we're not waiting until we have to have a fire sale to save the district. So, I want to say thank you to you and ask that you pass that on to the other board members that even though
050we may not like the two options, it's priming the pump and we're thinking about it and I'd like to have that that plan in place before we need it so that we don't have to make a bad decision out of haste. >> Thank you for your comment. Anybody [clears throat] else? Yes, come on up. >> Darlene Alexander from Hoverard Lake, but I live in Alpena County. Um, I just want to come here and thank you all for what you're doing and that I support you 100%. I also want to tell you to have a blessed Thanksgiving and we do truly have a lot to be thankful for. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Anybody else? Going once, going qui twice. Further public comment? Seeing none, uh we'll proceed with our meeting. Thank you all
051very much again for your engagement and for for coming. This brings us to our uh action items. Uh the approval of consent agenda items and u the recommendation would be to move to approve the consent agenda items as presented. >> I would offer that motion. >> Second. >> All right. We typically don't discuss our consent agenda by its very nature. So, uh, all in favor of approval of the consent agenda, raise your hand. Opposed, same sign. Motion carried. Very good. Thank you. We have, uh, approved consent agenda items. That brings us to new business and our human resources staff update. Thank you, Michelle. >> Yes, we have several new hires. We have professional staff Shannon O'Neal or I'm sorry, O'Donnell, a special education teacher at Besser. We have Miranda Kinsland, a special ed teacher, Ella
052White. Rachel Weatherhalt, a first grade teacher at Besser, and Marquay, a temporary CCT teacher at um the high school. For support staff, we have Brandy Suite, instructional assistant at Besser, Amanda Henwood, instructional assistant at Besser, Eli Irving, and a custodial Hson Lincoln, and Albert Falling, a relief bus driver. We have a couple of resignations, Alan Weinoff, Lynn Tang Tins Tingler, and Jessica Harmon. And then we also have retirement. I'd like to say congratulations to her 27 years of service to be to Deborah Balor at Lee Cook at Alpena High School. And then we just need a recommendation for the four professional staff. [snorts] I'll make a motion to approve the hiring of the new professional staff after completion of proper certification, testing, and other HR requirements. >> Second. >> Very good. We have a motion
053and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor of the motion raise your hand. Any oppose? Same sign. Motion carried. Thank you very much. All right. Uh that brings us to our charitable gifts. Sarah, take it away. >> All right. We have hungry howies generously donated 120 personal pizza gift personal pan no pan personal pan pizza gift certificates for student achievement valued at $840 to support the students of ACES. Tons of suds generous generous gen generously donated laundry coupons valued at $80 to support the students of ACES. Domino's generously donated pizzas for the CLA class prizes valued at 8230 to support the students of Lincoln Elementary. Ella White Elementary received the following generous donations to support the LY Christmas bazaar fundraiser. Walmart gave a monetary donation to be included in a gift basket
054valued at $100. Meyer gave a monetary donation to be included in a gift basket valued at $200. F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B F B Fir Patrick donated a cooler to be included in a gift basket valued at $200. St. Paul Lutheran's Church of Alpena donated clothing items valued at $100. Lincoln Elementary received the following generous donations to support the pancake and raffle graphics fundra basket fundraiser. Alpena Embroidery and Trophies donated a gift basket valued at $80. Jimmy John's gave a monetary donation of $200. Kentucky Fried Chicken donated three gift cards valued at $30. My recommendation is to motion to accept the gifts
055listed above with gratitude and a thank you to the donors in writing for their generous gifts. >> Second. >> Very good. We have a motion and a second. U [clears throat] any discussion? Sarah. >> Yeah. Very good. Uh hearing uh no discussion. Uh all in favor of the motion raise your hand. [clears throat] Very good. Any opposed? Same sign. Motion carried. Thank you. All right. Uh that brings us then to uh information and proposals. And I believe we do have one letter to read. Is that right, Summer? This letter is from Keley Rosnowski to the board. Okay. Uh, dear board members, let's discuss the pressing matter facing our school district. It is crucial that you shift your focus on to the ongoing busing issue. While community engagement and positive interactions are important, they pale in
056comparison to the real challenges our parents face regarding transportation. Busing is not just a logistical concern. It is a significant aspect of the daily family life, daily life for families, particularly for working parents who pay school taxes and rely on the system to meet their schedules. When parents work commitments do not align with the school drop off and pickup times, it creates unnecessary stress and can hinder their ability to support their children's education effectively. You must prioritize addressing these issues by evaluating our current busing schedules, routes, and capacity. Engaging directly with parents to understand their needs and expectations will provide valuable insight into how you can improve the system. Additionally, exploring partnerships with local transportation services could offer more flexible solutions that cater to our community's diverse schedules. It is time to focus on tangible
057solutions rather than getting distracted by less pressing concerns like clapping or non-existent issues with bathrooms. Your commitment to serving our students and their families should guide the discussion and actions moving forward. Let's resolve to tackle the busing issue head on and create a system that supports all parents effectively. >> Thank you, Summer. All right. Uh that brings us to the superintendent update. >> All right. Um so, as we heard tonight, uh some concerns in the community about uh what took place at the state of Michigan's uh board of education with the sex education standards. Um, just to remind everyone, the board in I think early spring last year or of this year um reactivated our sex advisory um committee. Uh that committee is made up of by law 50% uh parents, but I think we're
058actually around 90%. I believe pretty much everyone with the exception of the student and a pastor. I think everyone else on that committee is a parent in the district. Um but that committee's process or responsibility is to review uh our curriculum on a two-year basis. Um we started meeting and then the state started to renew their uh curriculum or standards guidelines. Um so our next activity is to uh get together and go through that ultimately making a recommendation to the board um for the board to adopt. So, uh, just because the state of Michigan has done what they've done recently doesn't mean that we are currently doing that doesn't mean that the sex advisory committee will make that recommendation to the board. But that is the process. We should be, I would imagine, in December,
059January meeting and then um at some point after that having a recommendation um as to how to move forward. So uh so then it seems like it must have been October. This is November. Um we had a gentleman uh pray at the uh public comment and uh board members and members of the audience bowed their heads and um you know the board members were um called to the carpet I guess for bowing their heads. So we had some conversations about getting a legal opinion on whether a board member uh could bow their head during a prayer. And the answer from trun is absolutely. You don't give up your right to be a citizen or Christian or whatever else um during a board meeting. Um and so when a board member or my board member uh
060bows their head during a prayer, it is not an official endorsement of a religion. It is not u you know violating separation of church and state. Um it's everyone's right to do that. Um don't quote me on the details of this but essentially the only time you are truly acting as a board uh is when you vote. And so even in the discussion while you're a board member you still have that freedom. um they went as far as to say um and maybe this will uh incite people, but board members technically could, you know, pray during a meeting um as long as it's not during that voting part where the board then is officially endorsing. But I just wanted to clear that up because I had received some comments and I know that uh it
061was a big issue in the community. Um that was not an endorsement and you're within your rights to do that. So, uh, okay. Now, into the scary part. Um, I'm going to just address board calendar issues. We switched website companies some time ago and every now and then um issues pop up. Um, but uh yeah, please. Yeah, thank you. And so right now we are having an issue where uh the board calendar does not have the agenda listed. Is that correct? It's the event calendar that does. So on our website if I got it backwards. If you go to the events here. So if you go uh sorry from the homepage if you click on the district menu here select events and then you come down you can see the board events. If you click
062on these there's no agenda here. Um we're working on that. They were here in October I think and then they September and then they disappeared. Um we've been working to figure out what the issue is there. But if you go back to the homepage, sorry, going too fast. Go back to the homepage, select district menu, come down to the board of education, and go to the board of education calendar, and you click on the same events. The agendas are listed there, so you can access them there. So, we're working uh with the company to see why uh because on our calendar uh it is there uh it's just not transferring over to the public facing calendar. Uh where are those at? So, we got minutes, [snorts] the calendar, agendas, and uh the schedule all here
063on the page. And again, that's from the homepage going to the district menu and then coming down here to board of education. Did I get everything? Okay. >> Uh just a couple of things. Uh, I'm sorry that one of our speakers left. I just want everyone to be clear. We do not receive 25% less than the seven larger districts. Our the money that we spend on transportation is equal to 75% of those seven districts total combined budget. So, we are spending more than the seven districts that are larger than it. It's not we're getting 25% less. It is we have outsized spending compared to those districts. Uh and I just was doing some research this weekend. Um we are currently transporting a thousand fewer students than we did in 2015 and spending $400,000 more. And
064so things to be figuring out could be fuel prices, cost of you know labor and things like that. But it's again a data point that we need to better understand. And I'll just reiterate, we are not um looking at doing away with transportation. I know that's a rumor that's out there. Uh but no, we're not doing it. And sorry, I'm really going actually. I just wanted to to point out something that we've brought up before though that uh we don't get extra money for transportation given the size of our district. we get I think you've said the same amount that uh smaller districts you know that have a smaller square mile footprint um even though they just don't have they don't have the challenges that we have. >> Yeah. Historically uh you took it out
065of your p per pupil and my example was that I was in a two square mile district previously. They received the same amount of money as we did per student. So two square miles versus 604. About 3 years ago, the state did set aside money for transportation. So, we currently get uh 260 $70,000 to offset, but we still have $2 million $2.5 million in expenses. Um so, it does help, but it's uh you know, still disproportionate. >> Thank you for clearing that up. I appreciate that. >> Yep. >> If um we have students, they're outside the district lines, do we still transport them to that that snow? >> No. Yeah. on their slides it showed us going everywhere. >> So it's showing where they live. Not necessarily that we transport them. Okay. >> And same
066with the schools where some move you know they live in Wilson but they attend Besser. We don't transport those students. Um, and then uh had a bit of an almost an uh-oh moment when we were talking about the fire code um that does not allow uh kindergarten, first preschool, kindergarten, and first grade to be on the second floor. The next day, I went to do my fidelity visits at uh Lincoln and walked into the first grade classroom on the second floor and uh had a bit of a moment of a moment, let's just say. So this that and so this law went into effect seven years ago. Um so we are exempt from that and the reason being uh if the first grade classroom has a dedicated stairwell for itself um then you can do
067that. So uh right now there's an empty space next to that um first grade classroom. If a classroom were to go into that space then the first grade classroom would have to come down on the first floor. But because they are the only classroom that uses that stairway on um you know on the second floor uh that's where we're exempted in or exempted out of that restriction. So just in case anyone is still saying but wait a minute first grade is on the second floor. That is correct. However spoke to the fire uh department directly and they verified that we are okay in doing that. >> I think that's it for me. [clears throat] >> Very interesting. Thank you. All right. Um, then that would bring us to informations, uh, comments, questions from board members.
068>> The one night Mary isn't here. >> Uh, what is our transportation budget? I' I know I've seen the number and somebody asked me in the community. I can't speak. Yeah. >> So, I'll just say it was in my update, [clears throat] but uh [laughter] >> your update wasn't there this morning, was it? >> It was. >> Was it? >> Yeah. I think I got it out last night, didn't I? >> Oh, okay. >> Anyway, it it's annually it's about 2.5 million. I think it was 2.6 at one point, but generally it's right around 2.5 each year. >> Okay. And if I could go back to one other point, I didn't write it down, but um one of the perks of this job, of course, is being singled out as the person to fire. So,
069I appreciate those comments, but I would ask that we do it based on uh facts. And um I guess I'll plug in again. I just wanted to it. One of the things that came up during the um the community forum was what are we doing to increase enrollment in our district and we are in a unique situation where we are taking students from you know four counties and those schools the number of students that are there there's not much of a a a pool of potential students in the area but I think you know having accurate information and if we can all be, you know, reasonable cheerleaders for the district would be helpful uh because we do have a number of people that are choosing to not attend our schools that live in the county
070or live in the adjacent counties. So, it was said that once I took over uh schools have plummeted um rapidly so I think was the comment. uh we went over this data and if you remember on October or September 15th it was about a three-hour 4 hour meeting and so there was nobody in the audience when we as a board went over this information four >> no five >> five hours so maybe everyone missed this and I I'm not not in any way suggesting that anything below you know 50% is is something to hang your head on but when we say that you know scores have plummeted recently ly that bar is approximately when I came in and I came in during COVID the year that there was no assessment uh given at the state
071of Michigan. But you can see uh the the trends here. There is one that has been heading down. Then it gets pretty sloppy. But to say that since 2020, take me out of this case, take to say that scores have been plummeting is an absolute false statement. And that then rings true with anyone who wants it to ring true. And it's not an attack on me. It's an attack on the teachers. It's an attack on the students. And it doesn't encourage anyone to enroll in our district. So, I would ask if you're going to call for my termination, that's fine, but do it factually. And let's turn this around and say we've got a lot of work to do. I don't think I've ever said to this board or the community now we're in good
072place academically. We're not. But let's be factual about it. Our scores, there are some that are going down and have been, and then there are some that are going up significantly. But even at that, you see we're below 50% proficiency in most areas. That's not acceptable. I don't want to hang my hat on that. But to say that it's just plummeting is unfair and is absolutely disrespectful to our teachers that are giving every ounce they have in the classroom. And with that, >> thank you for that background. you know, it's one of the things I'm I'm very interested in this question of, you know, the elementary, you know, plans in one of the scenarios because I I keep wondering, you know, is that is that a uh an experiment that would yield better results for
073the cityaries? Um, and, you know, I think that as we uh as we think about that, and I'm hoping King Scott will say more about this in future meetings, but uh I would love to hear more of that attention to detail on the uh on the academic side. Uh and you know, what can we what can we do about that? Will that will that yield some results? Um, so interesting questions, but uh anyway, thank you for that. Um, all right. Uh, any other board members uh information, questions, comments from board members? >> Along the same lines, Eric, as you just said, um, I I think it's fantastic that we started discussion. You know, there's bits and pieces that people like, bits and pieces that people hate, and um, at this point, we're just learning. I
074I've had the opportunity to talk to several members in several different people in the community and some say I like this little bit. I hate that. Um and that's cool. We have the opportunity to really have this discussion without you know doubling down on anything. Um but I do think it would be interesting uh like you mentioned Eric to see some of the data on for instance the cohorts. You know if you were to do an upper L lower L that's not a new concept. Other schools have done that. that. So, be really interested to see what the data looks like on that and how that does affect um scores, especially if you know we're considering moving forward with it. So, um there there is no one scenario that we're we're looking at. It's bits
075and pieces of all it, but to have some of that information as we move forward would certainly be helpful and the community is asking for it. So, I I would appreciate that. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. I I was kind of would like to see I guess where that um idea that aggregating the elementarymentaries came [snorts] in because it doesn't play out in our data because is there three at Besser and Lloy is it a three section school each one of those? Yeah. you know, they they don't have they don't beat Sanborn, Hinks, or Wilson. >> So, I that kind of throws a red flag to me. >> Yeah. >> And we can, you know, we can certainly dedicate time at a board meeting to talk about this further. So, uh, stop me
076anytime is my [laughter] point. But I think yeah uh uh you will hear our staff say it would be great to be able to collaborate with other first, second, third grade teachers when they don't have those partners. So from that aspect that's a positive but does that necessarily translate to better performance? That's the question we're asking. >> How do you ask that question without >> Well, it I mean Go ahead. I >> guess how do you pull that data point out of without actually doing moving all the schools around? >> Yeah. And uh you know I was currently Schwarz Creek um just this week or it must have been last week. It's Monday, right? Yeah. Um they're actually going away from they had K235. uh they ended up selling a building and then voting to
077go back to K5. So, and the quote in the article uh whenever it was this week was uh the results didn't pan out the way they had expected it when they did that. So, um but King Scott said they can get, you know, data to show um that it does. But it it really comes down to um It's difficult to point and say this was the reason it improved or this was the reason it didn't improve because we heard too the potential hardships of having to drop off at three four uh potential schools. Um and does the community how does the community weigh that over you know possible uh academic improvement? There's a lot that goes into it is my point. Mark said there's three types of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. [snorts] >>
078Yep. Anything else from board members? We're going to really leave it there, huh? All right. Um then uh if there is no [laughter] if there are no further comments from uh board members uh then it's time uh to uh move to close session uh for a personnel u matter but under the uh exemption uh clause of that's 8H of the open meetings act uh section 8H. Um so a motion to do that would be in order. I would offer that motion. >> Second. >> Okay. Uh we have a motion in a second to go into close session. Um and uh it doesn't well I don't know. There's a there could be action afterwards. Yes, I think >> yeah there will be. But >> okay. So we're going to we're going to stay in here and
079u if uh you would like to return after close session, please feel free to do so. Um all right. So, any further discussion on uh going into close session? Uh hearing none. Um all in favor of the close session, raise your hand. Any opposed? Same sign. Okay, we have our two/3s necessary to go into close session. Uh thank you very much. And uh yes, again to the public, thank you. And uh feel free to come back after we're done. You can go. There we go. >> Hello. >> Okay, we got the doors. Is there anybody else out there? [clears throat] >> But they can they can get in. Yes. Okay. Great. All right. Well, then we are back in uh in open session. Um we have uh >> I will make a motion to approve
080the two leaves of absence request as presented under the Michigan statute. Personnel MCL15.268H. >> Second. >> Perfect. Uh we have a motion in a second. Um any uh further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor of the motion. Show hands. Any oppose? Same sign. Motion carried. Thank you very much. All right. Well, that uh concludes our agenda. Um then uh that would bring us to our advanced planning uh workshop and regular meeting on December 8th and 15th respectively. And then I'll look forward to January. And having exhausted our agenda, I will adjourn the meeting. Thank you all very much.