001the increase foundation. We don't know what they're doing with that. We don't really know what they're doing with 31A and some of those big grant numbers. They're going to talk about 31A being increased again. Someone talk about decreasing it. Someone talk about getting rid of 31A all together and rolling it into a just totally different section. So, with all of those unknowns, it seems like doing a lot more cuts until we know where we are might not be when we might not need to make those cuts. >> So, hindsight, you think that backfired on you? >> I wouldn't do that. >> Cuz they know >> Again, that was I I believe that was a mistake on my part not to remember that in your amount. >> I think not informing the board in between there.
002So, are you saying you didn't touch that again until Saturday night cuz we now have 2 days to cut 400 I mean, we had 2 days to look at the budget and cut we have $400,000 now that So, from May 27th until Saturday, you didn't know >> I did know that. I just explained that if we are building a budget on so many assumptions, we don't have any idea really what's going to come out of Lansing. We're hopeful that it's going to be 250 or more and we have a new superintendent coming on. >> But, regardless of that, we knew all of those variables at on May 27th. The one variable that would have been helpful to know was the one that you didn't share with us and I feel like we already all knew
003the assumptions we were making. We were making assumptions and I remember very specifically walking away from that table feeling very unsettled at 147 and I remember saying, "Am I the only one that feels really not good about the 147?" And I remember Margaret I think specifically saying, "No, they're going to leave and they're going to they and Tammy are going to go work on this and they're going to come back with some suggestions." And then the last meeting June 8th, we got nothing. And then I had to contact Billy the 9th and she said, "I haven't even looked at it. To be honest, Tammy's running the numbers. I haven't even looked at it since the meeting." And I said, "When are we going to get this?" And she said, "Hopefully Thursday before the meeting." And
004I said, "How is that enough time for us to be So even still then did Billy know at that point when I talked to her on the 9th that we this 277,000 was a thing?" >> Not specifically. I would not say till >> How can you not specifically know it? I I don't understand. >> Because what >> The two people whose job it is to put this budget together for us, how can one say they forgot about it, realized it after May 27th, it's June 26th, and the person who's running the district says they didn't know about it. I'm flabbergasted by this. That that's a response. >> Well, I guess it's the the ambiguity of it. You're saying not specifically. Did Tammy tell you about it or is it >> Not the 277,000 number. She
005did not specifically tell me that. I think it might have been till we saw the final numbers. >> As I said, this was my mistake and I'm sorry I made that mistake and blame me for that again. No. I and I'm sorry. This is a very tough budget and to make a mistake like that in difficult times is >> And the hard thing is it's it's probably going to cause people their jobs with very little notice. And I feel sick about that. Um >> I would hope that we can still move forward knowing that we don't have a safe budget, knowing that we have a new superintendent coming in. And I don't know that I want to make decisions for him that are going to impact his We him without consulting >> You you won't
006be making that >> No, I disagree. >> voting on a budget that's $400,000. >> But here here's the thing is, Timmy, you won't be making that decision. And but the fact that between May 27th and June 22nd >> I didn't tell you that. >> Yes, and that is that is a huge thing. We have worked very hard in this district and you've been part of the working hard all these years of the the good budget that we have, the strong stuff, and to not have answers and to get something Saturday at whatever time it was with no explanation. It was There wasn't even anything in there that said, "Here's the error." Whatever. Someone like me that is looking and I ask a zillion questions and you know that to be true that there's just there's
007no rationale. And Sarah's right. We walked out with that 147. She was jacked up about it and I looked at it and I said to her 147's not bad on May 27th. There There's some things we asked you if you had everything um reconciled through like a March 1st date. You said yes. So, in my mind I'm thinking all you had was March till June, all of that. And then I see a 700 some figure and then a 398. It's It's just mind-boggling. >> Okay. So, we can't change that. And I'm hearing what we're saying here. We need to move on. I mean, it's made. She admitted she made an error. I think we need to just move on from that piece. We can't change it now. I know We you know >> Well, we
008at some point we'll have to discuss >> We're going to have to. Yeah, we will. But I don't believe it's that right now. >> And that's And then going back to again, where you know, catching me up into the conversation, like I said, that that Thursday of last week, when Tim and I were sitting down and and much like you, you know, thinking, "Okay, when we get through, when we balance everything for this year." I did expect that we would find some, you know, little extra pieces where we underspend on something, overspend on something, but that balance, I was expecting to see something improved. But then, like I said, we had to address that 277 that I was not realizing was going to need to address now. I thought that was already incorporated in. Um
009but again, coming back to tonight and kind of to Deb's point, as far as that moving ahead, um one of the things that um Sarah asked for, you know, in the our conversation yesterday, after she she received those documents, was, "Okay, what are some of those additional staff members that we touched on, mentioned at some point during the workshop, but we weren't at a point where we needed to really deeply discuss those, right?" And so, I was able to send that information. Tammy pulled it for us this afternoon. A- Again, I I don't disagree. It has to be addressed. But to a to make those decisions before you have that new superintendent in place seems very concerning to me. >> I would agree with you. >> And that's And it did But it did wasn't
010concerning to you in this whole process to work closer with your business manager? >> That wasn't That kind of a >> I have a reason. I I can say that. But that's not going to help us right now. We need We got it. You've explained how you feel. I don't believe criticizing or whatever at this point is going to help us, okay? We need to move on from that piece. >> Well, I would argue >> I don't know if we are moving on from it, but okay, Deb. We can We can do that, cuz God forbid we criticize and ask questions of the people who are responsible for this process. >> It might. >> Well, it's going to It may It's going to in the future, but right now, what we're doing is not. >>
011When I'm thinking about cuts that I'm going to be making to drop down this 400, I am going to be thinking about people in the agency, and I do if I have some criticisms about certain individuals, that may come into play in my mind. >> Well, when we talk that piece, yes. I don't believe right now is the time. >> I will hold it till then. >> Thank you. >> So, when is the time? When we we go to approve this? Am I Or do you want to do it now? >> I think it's when we go to approve it. When we have that discussion piece, you can put out at that point, this is the reason I'm not voting for this. >> No, that's that's not how it works, Deb. >> I disagree. >>
012When it comes time Deb, when it comes time when you're voting for whatever the budget to say I'm not voting for it, that's not what this is. This is we have a presentation of this with this dollar figure. And the And the truth in budgeting, that's that's what we have to do. >> But let me finish talking, please. But when it comes time for it making it's not a vote of I'm not voting for the budget. It's a vote of within that vote, these things must happen, and the budget we are voting for will be down to this dollar amount. So, if you don't want to have the conversation now, and we'll just keep running through and finish this, that's fine. But that's the conversation It's not someone votes against the budget. That's not That's
013not the vote, Deb. The vote is to have a budget and then we're going to change votes. >> and then we're going to vote on it. Is that what you're saying? >> We're going to have I would say we need to have discussion about amendments to what's being presented, unless over majority of the board wants to vote yes on what's presented. Then we're going to have to have discussions about amendments to make into the motion. >> No, there's there's there's a motion There can be a motion There's a motion on the table for the fiscal year >> action item >> blah blah blah Either someone makes that motion to approve it. >> Correct. >> Supports it and then in the conversation it becomes no, we have to bring it down to this amount. We're not
014approving a budget that is spending $400,000 of our fund balance. So it's either the conversations has that or some you ask for a motion. No one wants to make that motion and someone makes a different motion. But it's not a motion of I vote no against the budget. That's not how it works. You have to vote for a budget. And if people are saying I'm not voting for that one, it it means they want we want something else. So that's the point that you want to do it. >> But couldn't we make some discussions here and >> Deb doesn't want to do that. >> Excuse me, I am listening to you. >> Deb, you said you didn't want to do it. >> Well, I'm trying to figure out where's the best place to do it,
015okay? >> Okay. >> Do you want to do it now? >> I would like to just get a a tenure of the board to see who is actually comfortable as is with this budget or if there are a majority that feel like there are there's still some place to make cuts. And if that if those cuts are necessary cuz I am not interested in approving >> Right. >> a budget with $400,000 coming out of our fund balance and reevaluating in a couple of months and making an amendment. I think if we're going to lay staff off, they need to be given the most amount of time possible to find another job. And September is not a good time, I don't think, to be hunting for a job in a school district. Now is the time
016and I really don't want to set anyone up for failure. I shared that with Billy yesterday. If we're laying people off, it makes me sick to my stomach that we would have to, but I want to set them up for success to find another job. So, I think we need to cut people. I did ask for the non-essential positions and we all got a a list of it and I think we need to make some cuts from that list. >> And and I'm just going to finish with this. The argument to say that you don't want to do anything before the new superintendent comes is laughable to me because if that was a concern, we wouldn't be sitting here with this 398 right now. If the the the people that were supposed to be doing
017their jobs, letting the boards know board know, we we wouldn't We would still have that number. >> We're we're worrying about >> Well, we may have worked on get How how much lower could we get? We could we may have worked on other things. Number one and number two, I'm not in favor of setting a new superintendent up with that kind of budget, quite frankly. Um in the hole, all right. Like I'm just not. You know, I think that, you know, I don't know. I was under the impression after we left our budget workshop that we were going to be under the 143 or 46 or whatever mark it was, not not not double it. Like or more. And I think it's unfair to bring in a new superintendent with those problems. >> And then
018we're making him the bad guy. Because now he's got to decide who he's cutting and he's got to be the bad guy when we are the ones We can take that brunt for him and we can be the bad guy and give him a balanced budget or at least as close as possible. But to say, "Hey, by the way, we're $400,000 into our fund balance and um >> But fingers crossed. >> But we're going to cross our fingers and oh yeah, you've got to make some recommendations on who you're going to cut. I just don't think that's fair to him. >> I do. So, I'd like you guys have all had your point now. I'd like to do mine. >> [laughter] >> First off, this is a preliminary budget. We all know that. Second, like
019Tammy has said, there's a lot of assumptions made. We don't know what's going to come out. We don't know what's going to happen. Now, have we always hoped? Absolutely, guys. I'm up on this board for 6 years now and we are we have been under if you look at what Tammy provided, we've had This is that would be our third year we've had to pull money. Okay? I I don't feel it is our responsibility to decide who we cut personally. And I say that because I am not you are not none of us are working in those offices daily and know what those needs are and what they want. And I feel that the superintendent and his administrative team should be the one making those decisions. They know what we need, they know what we
020want. And yes, maybe we should have done this earlier if we had known that and and that conversation could have happened, but it didn't happen. And I would I don't believe that makes him the bad guy. I think it makes him have to take a look at and make what's right and best for our and again, we may not need to make any cuts, we may need to make cuts. The flip side to making cuts right now is then we might have to hire people back and that's going to be just as hard as letting them go if we have to. >> Why Why would that be hard? >> Cuz it's hard to hire people in August. And we all know it. If we lay let's say we lay somebody off right now because that's
021what this board decides to do. >> Mhm. >> And we get into August and our numbers are up or we need to rehire some of these people we laid off, they may have already gone somewhere else, gotten another job, and then we're searching. So, it can go both ways. Um I Excuse me, I'm not done. >> Okay. >> I've tried not to interrupt you guys. I've been trying to really be good here. So, I would like you to please let me finish. Um I am okay with this budget because I believe that I I don't want to be the one to decide who we cut people-wise. I don't have the knowledge of what does Tammy do all day? What does uh uh Billy do as far as curriculum director all day? I don't have all
022that knowledge. I don't know what all those jobs pertain. I don't know what we're going to lose on that piece. I truly believe that should be left to our our new superintendent and the administrative team to make those. And again, I would have liked to have done that earlier. But, we're not there. We're now in a different place. It's there. We know it. We got it. I That's I just feel that's what we should do. And And that's where I stand. And I I've been listening, so I'm going to try to keep listening. >> Wait. Wait. I I just want to do a quick You would have liked to do it have done it before, but don't want to do it now. That doesn't make sense to me. >> It does because I don't believe
023then, if we had done it back in May when we had our meeting, Billy would have been present. Our administrators were all present. We could have gotten their input on okay, do we need Let's just take the list that that Sarah asked for. Do we need an an extra secretary? Okay, well, what does that secretary do? We would have input from those people who are working with them on a daily basis. >> Yeah, and that's why it would have been nice >> I agree, Margaret. I agree. >> have been nice if we had started talking about the budget before May 27th. >> I I with that. >> but I can't change that and you can't change it either. My >> What I'm going to say though, it is our job. We are the fiscally responsible.
024Our we have a duty to approve a healthy budget and choose a superintendent. It is our job. And it is our job to be financially smart and to do the best we can in the least disturbance to students in the classroom. >> I agree with you. I do agree with you on that, but I think that those decisions, cuz we're going to have to start cutting people. We all know that's where we're at. We have to start cutting people and I don't I don't because I don't know enough about the jobs that we're talking of cutting to say. And what if our superintendent would have What if our new superintendent is great in personnel and he's willing to take that on or curriculum or whatever cuz he's comfortable doing that. I don't know that enough
025about him to say that, to know, okay, well, let's cut this or let's cut that. Um I just I don't know. I agree with you Margaret that it is our responsibility, but I am comfortable with that amount knowing that I can we can amend this. We can watch closely through through July and August our student numbers our if we have teachers that leave, we always sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. That could happen. Our state numbers, we don't know. Our grant numbers, we don't know. I know that if comes August and we're like, okay, things are still not, we can amend this budget. And we can continue to amend that budget as many times as we need to to make sure that we need our financial needs. Absolutely. And if we financially do our jobs,
026that amendment in in August can look completely different than what it would look if we crossed our fingers with a $400,000 digging. Ray, your turn. Sorry. I said I would only say one thing. >> Sure. Uh and yeah, we already covered about what we could have or should have had had it, right? And then and and I just I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I do want to have a go just from that's also what I'm saying, right? Okay. A place to to improve. And and we did have the administrators here at that time, which I thought was awesome because we had the direct feedback. And I did think that's very key that we had all those those players there and and had the feedback. And yes, we walked away. I felt
027comfortable at that time with the 141, whatever it was at the time. I felt comfortable up and everybody was going to go home, right? There's going to be some adjustments made. Now, again, echoing everybody else's not everybody, but some sentiment here on the board that yeah, I'm coming into this meeting and I'm looking at my email and I'm looking at all the information. I'm like, "Whoa." Whoa. This is This is impactful, right? And here we are. We're we're at the, you know, 4th and 9th. We're, you know, we're right at the the line here. We got to we got to submit something. And and I have got a lot of questions. And and I'm uneasy now. You know, as a new board member, you know, you're um you know, this time you're you're saying this
028is a temporary. Like, this isn't the final final. So, I guess if this if it's temporary >> approval. >> Yeah, they're all temporary. They're all temporary. Ray, it's not temporary. It's not temporary. You are It's a temporary. You are approving a final budget to start 2026-2027. Amendment can happen. There's nothing temporary. It's not pretend, Ray. It's not It's not temporary. >> can always be They can always be amended. >> Sure, they can. >> past, we had usually tried to in June here, make it as close >> as we could. >> Yeah. >> But [clears throat] if we wait, we're paying this individual or two or three, however many individuals we're talking about, all through the summer, right? And if I believe they have to be given a 30-day notice, right? So then we have to
029pay them for an additional month even after we have the amendment. So if we choose to wait until August, now we're still paying them the rest of June, all of July, August, and then the 30 days. And then they're what? They're starting the year with us? Right, yes. And that's who we're talking about, right? We're talking about non-essential central office staff. That's who we are talking about. Instructional coaches, all that. People that don't work directly. But then that might >> Instructional coaches would fall under school year. >> They would bump people, whatever. So we got to give people notice. I mean, do we want to tell a teacher in August or September that they don't have a job anymore? I don't know. I feel like >> We've done it. >> And then two things But
030we don't have to. And then two >> But we don't have to. I know that. We have done it, guys. Because we had to. Well, and maybe we have to hire. We don't know where we're going to be >> We don't know. All we know is right now we're $400,000 over. >> That's right. >> Can I ask >> Okay, go on. Cuz I have got one more question for Tammy. >> So I know you mentioned you don't know what everybody does. We were given these beautiful descriptions of at the May 27th meeting. These are great descriptions for what every position does. So this should give you an idea of what everyone does. And then second, I know you're saying we have approved budgets with deficits and then it works out. What I will say is
031we have never, and I spent four just over four years on the board prior and then this term, we and correct me if I'm wrong, Margaret, we have never assumed an increase in the FTE. We've always assumed not. >> Pretty much flatlined. >> it helps our bottom line because we're assuming flat and it ends up being something. This is the only year we've already factored that in and we're still 400,000. So that help is not coming. >> That's correct. >> The help that we've always gotten to help weigh us out is done. We've already allocated it and we're still $400,000 in the red. >> Okay, hold on. I hold on. It is the illegal to approve a deficit budget. So we never done that. >> We don't have a deficit budget. >> So just so
032that we >> a good point. >> in front of every that is that is not what it is. We we have overextended, if that's a right word, and we have to borrow from our fund balance. >> That's correct. >> That's what we don't want to have to do because you have no idea what next year's going to bring you and what the the government, the legis- all of that stuff that we're that we're tied to. So no, we can never approve a deficit budget and we never have and never will. But we also have never approved a budget where we had to take this $400,000 out of our save savings, general fund, whatever words you want to call it. >> So and there's no need to start now. >> I remember what we did last
033year and then the year before. >> Last year we approved about a 233,000 >> It was on I know one of our reports and then the year before was about Okay, so we've been at about 230, 240 just to give you an idea. >> If we want to stay with that, then I'd say we take that increase in FTE and put it at zero and then see what we're at because that's what we did last time. We did a zero increase and then we were still only at 200. >> We'll be taking out $120,000. >> Exactly. So then now if we assume basically like we did in years past, we are now $520,000 in the red. >> I'm I'm just extremely disappointed that we went from the 147 to where we are and then even
034with there's been some unexpected since that round table talk of boosts, retirement things and we're still at that space. I'm still confused how we got that much cuz we would have been even more had we not had some other things on here that are new since what we picked. There were a few things that we didn't talk about when we were doing our line item that that are in here. It was two two two back when you were talking. >> But also [clears throat] just because the last two years we've taken some money doesn't mean we had to keep doing it and now >> I agree with you because there is a point. Let's just keep doing it because then it's going to be we've got nothing. >> I agree. There is there is going
035to become a time here where one of the easiest way to do it >> And it's awful because it we're dealing with people, but one of the easiest ways to do it is the not direct impact in the classroom. God's sake, it's as simple as that. >> I don't think we're arguing that, Margaret. >> I think we are. >> I don't I think you're arguing that point. You're >> I'm not. No, I'm not arguing the point in the classroom. I'm not. >> Are you sure you're not? >> I'm sure I'm not. >> I would not, Margaret, argue getting rid of teachers. >> I think she's just saying to let it roll. >> That's what I'm saying. >> Yeah, she's saying let it roll. >> Let it roll. >> Pass the budget. >> Okay. My apologies.
036Thank you. Okay, well, if this is where we're at, folks. Okay. We've had our discussion here. Do we Tammy, are you done? Do we need to move on? Do we need to do we want to at this point? Okay, I'm hearing from the board we need to make some cuts. >> Did you have anything else that you went back to the drawing board to present to take to change this deficit? >> No, there really was nothing else in >> There was nothing else that that wasn't again those bigger ticket items for lack of a better word those people those high paying salaries. I mean there really isn't something else. >> So both of you would like us to approve the $400,000 barrel. Take from whatever you want to call it. Both of you both of
037you want to do that. >> So that the new superintendent can be part of the discussion >> superintendent can be part of it. Got it. >> from central office he would feel the most I would assume he'd have a better vision of what his central office would be made up of. And how much do we have >> Unfortunately that vision has gone out the door because of our lack of doing what we needed to do. >> Given that >> That's unfortunate. I still think we would be we were going to be in the same boat. I'm sorry I interrupted. >> Right. I mean How much is in the >> May 27th Ed, if we were in the same boat we'd have a whole different conversation and the $147,000 amount would have been different cuz we'd
038have a whole different conversation. I agree. >> I agree. I mean conversation is that combined with this. I mean it just would have been this added layer on that day. So I don't think that it would be a whole different conversation. >> We would still be where we are if I if I had known that was going to be $400,000 that night when we were talking then these these these positions that we're talking about then. Then May 27th yes, absolutely. But okay, so that's what I'm saying. So because we didn't we forgot about it whatever we did and now now we're rolling along and so now we want to say, "Well, we you know, the new superintendent thinks he's going to have this." Well, unfortunately, the new superintendent is is coming in. We screwed up
039in our interim superintendent office and our business manager office, and we're the ones that have to fix it. That's it. >> I'm going to throw out a suggestion. I looked at obviously what Billy sent out with the non-essential staff. I consider some of these luxuries to have, and right now we don't have the luxury of having all these staff. The biggest piece of the pie, the biggest bang for our buck, is the curriculum director position. That saves us 230 and thousand dollars. That's a lot of money. I think if we use our instructional coaches, if we keep the other instructional coach that we Cuz if we cut the other instructional coach, it's only you know, 55,000, right, Billy? >> Correct. So, one Well, I mean 153 if we cut the second one total, because part
040of her is part She is partly covered by grant funding, but I I would include her full salary because you could move other things into that if that person didn't >> So, if we cut >> But can I just ask just Billy on that that that literacy coach, when we when we talked about we were going to take it down to two, one was going to be free, one was costing us. And I looked through my notes, and I'm sorry I didn't write down, but Miss Dable was here and talked about being able to take something from CTE money. So, this it's a $55,000 hit to the general fund. Does the CTE money Where does that come in? >> When Miss Dable was suggested that CTE could cover it, that was under a suggestion that
041the administrative team had to have to keep three coaches. So, keep >> Okay, but but we're not doing three. No. >> Yeah. So, if So, that CTE funding would have to have been split so thinly because it has to account it's based on a percentage of teachers. So, if that coach was only servicing high school, it would be a reasonable amount that that person would be working with I think 10 11 CTE teachers out of the whole high school staff. That's a good chunk of that person's salary. But, if that person is now the 6-12 instructional [clears throat] coach, that CTE funding has to be split that much further. And so, that amount for her her what she suggested or discussed was that now that person is spread so thin, it doesn't it they're not
042really servicing the CTE like that. They're they're servicing so many people it wouldn't be appropriate to say they're CTE funded person. >> Okay, so then my question is, and I think I asked you this before, and I don't remember what you said to me. So, I'm sorry. I'm going to ask it again. >> Yeah. >> We we're just doing we're just doing two. Okay. So, one is K5 1 6-12. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, is there So, 6-12 is the qualification I don't I'm not saying it right, but the qualification >> The 3-5 per or excuse me, the K5 person because that's the one that's funded through the ISD, that person has to have an elementary certification. >> Okay. >> Preferred to have literacy experience. They have to be certified as a K5 teacher essentially
043that has that reading background. Our secondary person can be whatever we decide as our own district what we want them to be qualified in. And any any person with a teaching degree could fill that role if appropriate. >> Okay, so there so there's no no mix it in order to do the CTE part. If the CTE was the 9-12, the 6-7-8, that that's like out there floating. It can't be done by the K5 because that's free from the ISD. Okay. Okay. Okay, sorry. Go ahead, sir. >> I mean, I I don't know. Let's just talk about that one. That's $230,000. We were in a a study year, right, of that. Pasquale might be coming in with some knowledge or might be able to reach out in the new superintendent support mentor program thing that whatever.
044And he might be able to offer some support on that, but that is obviously the biggest thing for us. >> So, who's going to take over that You saw that list. You just had that list. Who's going to take over all those responsibilities? >> Well, we could say that with any position >> I'm asking you, you're going to cut it. Who's going to take it? >> We'd have to figure that out. >> Well, no, we aren't going to be the ones to figure it out. What's going to happen is our new superintendent's going to have to figure it out. And we have we have curriculum leaders, part of the administrator's contract. It is in there. It talks about curriculum being their responsibilities. >> Okay, but you lose. >> And I'm just telling you this because
045I've been there. You lose any kind of consistency. We may, for a year, be able to go without a curriculum director. But when you don't have one that's looking at our K-12 program, and I can tell you, been there, done that. I, as an administrator in the building, if I'm stuck doing curriculum for my building, I'm telling you it's on the bottom of my list of duties because there are so many other things that are more important to do. And there And we've talked about this. You guys know how I feel about this because I've been there. I I worry that if we get rid of our curriculum person, that means our I believe my experience, test scores are going to go down because we are not going to have that consistency across our board
046of what we're doing, what we're, you know, making sure that there's no gaps in between third grade and fourth grade and where those gaps are. That's a lot of the work that our curriculum director does. And I just worry we're going to lose that piece. And I I I understand, Sarah, it is the biggest one. I have concerns with it. I don't I don't know that I would agree with what you've said, but I just I have concerns. >> I don't want to cut any of them. And don't get me wrong, every position in here is valuable. And I can see value in every single one. So, I would never say that it's not going to be difficult or a hit or an adjustment period without one. I'm just saying >> We're looking at it
047because it's the most money. >> Yeah. And it's the least >> It's least impactful. >> Well, I don't know about that, but okay. >> That's what [laughter] we cut, the instructional [snorts] coach, which every administrator said that they wanted to keep. And that's 150 >> I bet you if you asked all your administrators about the curriculum position >> were here so we could >> I know. I know. What do you think their answer would be, Deb? That we need to keep the curriculum director. You do You do think that? You've spoken to all of them and >> I didn't say that. You just asked me what did I think. Oh, what Okay. >> But here's the reality. If we would have had this discussion with them at the table, we could have asked them. We
048are stuck in a position that we've already identified was an error, but we are stuck making decisions on their behalf in that area. That is unfortunate, but I think it's our job. >> We are making decisions on behalf of the health of the district, financial health. I'm just going to say And if you got And here And And I I'll throw out you have a HR director, which is a $170,000 hit. You could move that down to part-time. We've gone a very long time in this district of not having a HR director we have. Putting it down to half time that's $85,000 savings. So eliminating a curricular curriculum director putting HR down to a part-time position is a $315,000 savings. Then then when you look at the the secretarial positions and Billy tell me the
049the the curriculum and ad services that's the bargaining >> Correct. >> job correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> That's probably big that's the >> Right. So if there's if there's if the curriculum director gets eliminated the HR part could go into HR and education services and then you don't need the an HR secretary and you're saving $74,500. >> Okay, give that to me again Margaret. What are you putting together? >> I'm listening I'm trying to figure it out. >> If you eliminate the curriculum director position >> got it. >> If you take the HR position >> Cut it in half. >> and cut it in half >> Okay. >> that's a $315,000 savings. >> I don't need the money part I need what you're putting together. >> we had in Billy's list there were the
050secretarial positions. One was HR secretary one was curriculum and educational services secretary. >> Got it. >> The curriculum and educational services secretary is the bargaining group secretary. And that's the the one that the person is retiring. >> Okay. >> Right. So if you eliminate your curriculum director you move that HR secretary position into HR secretary and educational services and then you've eliminated the HR secretary position which is a $74,000 savings. That those three things right there is a $385,647.50 savings. Okay, so if we So, we know Margie's leaving. She's currently the secretary to what? >> Curriculum and Educational Services. >> Curriculum and such special ed. >> But, it's called education. Yeah, but it is special ed. You're right. Yes. Yeah. Right. >> The only issue with combining a non-union secretary position, which is the HR
051secretary, and a union secretary position it just I don't know how it would work out. >> Well, it would have Yes, it gets yucky but that would change. When it's financial reasons, the yucky part's not as yucky. >> [laughter] >> And you can do that. Inside Maybe. Full-time. Maybe. So, that's that's just where I'm coming from. Sorry if I didn't overstep whatever. I don't know what what you were saying. >> I hadn't thought about it, but I like it. I like the say I don't like it. >> I don't like it, either. But >> I don't like it, but I like that it makes up that gap that we have. >> So, how much if we do that? I'm sorry. >> 385,647.50 >> I'm sorry, Margaret. One more time, please. >> 385,647.50 >> And what
052are we currently? >> 398, something. >> 398. So, we're still we're You guys are good with about let's just figure 10,000 15,000. >> All we need is 10 new kids, 20 new kids to bring that I I I'm sorry. It It's you bring That That's about 14,000. That's That's a kid and a half. And if we're at 106, and Billy, you said you didn't know for sure totally registered, partly registered. >> Only at 52. So, we've really been basing it off of But, I mean, Ms. Thornburg's schedule is Yeah, I mean, she I think >> Absolutely. And And those people started that process that night and all all of that. >> I mean, I think that 106 number is is true. Yeah, but they are >> You think it's what? >> It's a valid number.
053Yeah, absolutely. >> That's it. >> It's going to be zero though, right? >> Correct. I mean, and I mean, in my quick look, I mean, I'm not seeing changes across the others. I mean, again, people are leaving out office for that for the last minute, but I mean, nothing is There's no big change. But, that one's Yeah. >> Okay, are you guys good with that? >> Secretary to director 72. >> Yeah, I'm just I'm just going back to you know, the the curriculum director position. Of course, that's 230. That's That's a a big chunk a big bite out of this. Um and every you were saying that, you know, from past experience, you know, um that's a key point. Um you know, I'm relatively new to the system here. Um but, I would think having
054the consistency of of one person setting the standard across the district would be key. I I think that would be important to kind of set the the standard for that. Um and whether it it's in the the description for some of these other positions to do and and and and and I'm hearing that. Um but, I I personally I think having one person set the standard across the board and and monitor that directly, I think is important. I think it is key. Um >> And Ray, just so I can tell you, um that one person who's responsible for it across board, if you don't have a curriculum director, is your superintendent who comes to us with a whole bunch of curriculum background. So, just keep keep that in your head. >> Right. Right. Right. You
055know, I >> But, at the same time, he's learning a whole new district. He's not learning curriculum. >> What? >> He's not learning curriculum. >> that, but to have him add those curriculum pieces on to him, I think it's going to be tough. That's all I'm going to say. >> Well, and and you know, I >> But, it can also be really tough if you got to lay off teachers and stuff because numbers go haywire because we we didn't do some things here. It's a lot tougher when it comes >> that curriculum director in August. >> Say it again? >> He could lay off the curriculum director in office in August if we see that our numbers aren't there or our money's are different or whatever. That could happen. >> Right. Just saying. >> Or,
056two, because it's a human being we're talking about, that that person has the ability to go find themself a job now before school starts as well. >> So, >> I just don't think, Ray, it's going to be as doomsday as Dad. Dad and I have a very different opinion on the outlook, okay? So, I just >> I just think it's going to be a lot harder. It's almost like >> creative ways that >> What? >> won't be won't cost $230,000. I I just do, and I very much think that Pasquale can bring that to the table. I think our curriculum leader administrators can do that. We have two instructional coaches. I think I think there is a way that it can work. >> There is a way, but it's not going to be to the
057level that we have right now. >> You don't know that, Dad. You don't You cannot say that for sure. >> say that because you don't have the time. I'm sorry. An administrator in a building does not have the time to put 100% towards curriculum. They're just not going to, Margaret. There's too many other things going on. >> Okay, Deb. >> So, I'm just going to add this. So, the research that I've done in the past is if we don't have a curriculum director, most districts have a second super assistant to the superintendent. Most districts have one or the other. >> Yep. >> Most districts are bigger. >> Not not our size. That's that's not correct. >> Yeah. >> Well, >> But are they in good financial >> Yeah. I mean, I Okay, but here's the
058thing. There are there there are just there are creative ways of doing it. And look, if if it's either I I just I just don't understand how we we want to approve something that's $400,000 digging and it's just >> I guess I would say, obviously Deb is vying for passing the budget as it is. And so, I understand that. There's no one else. So, >> [laughter] >> But I mean, I So, I understand Deb's point in saying, you know, the the advocating to keep the positions cuz Deb, you have made it clear you want to keep all of the positions and and vote as is. For anybody that is concerned about the curriculum director position. So, I know Ray and Candace, you guys have talked so far. >> And me. >> Well, but you're in
059another category right now. I still don't know where Ray and Candace fall with approving a $400,000 in the red budget. If you are concerned about curriculum director, but you don't want to pass this budget, >> What else are we going to do? >> Yeah, cuz I think it's fair to have your idea and say, I don't know about that position, but do you have any other ideas? Or maybe you're just comfortable passing it as like Deb. I just I'm trying to figure out where everyone's at. >> Well, I'm very upset because I feel looking back, there's a couple decisions that we've made that I wouldn't have chose that looking back. Um >> You can't look back though. That's the problem. >> So I'm a little I do feel like there needs to be a repercussion
060to staff that's not doing their job correctly. Um whether that means laying off, I mean we can't do that, but I mean I don't know. I I wish there was something more you guys could have brought here tonight. Other than on interest financial. >> There there isn't. That's the problem. >> So the bottom line is we have over over three million our our our fund balance. And we're asking to you're asking us to take 400 some thousand out of it this year. >> Okay, but we're also Tammy, are we not putting in How much in? >> Putting a half a million dollars almost into transferring that into our set aside in the >> Got it. Our set aside fund. So what's in the set aside and where is that in the whole budget? Is that's
061not our >> It's not Where is that in >> Yeah. >> I can bring this >> No, don't worry. Just in general. >> But yeah, we we have plenty of money for a lot of the things in there. >> We talked about But we're building on that. >> We have enough to replace the carpet. So >> Right. Right. >> We just bought a lot of computers. We still have funds for future replacement of computers. And we we need to keep replacing the >> No, we do. Absolutely. Right. >> If we're taking a year out of purchasing buses, we've taken that into account. >> Right. >> But in next year's budget, there's still 300,000 of that or 398, there's still 284,000 of set aside in that 398. >> I think we need to keep it. >>
062I do too. >> We absolutely >> We we did. We have that I agree. That I I agree with. >> I just want to I just want you to realize that the actual money that the general fund is using is not >> Not that. Yeah. >> It's 284 or whatever it is less than that is what our But because we choose to make the transfer, yes, it gives us the 398. And I'm not saying don't make the transfer. We need to have funds available for those next three years in the future. >> Cuz that's part of that figure. >> Yes. >> Is that transfer? >> Oh, okay. So then now we're just right, we're going to I guess to answer Sarah's question. >> Well, I guess I never really answered his either cuz I know
063you're saying you're upset about it, but what what do you Where's your head at with it? >> Well, like I said, a lot of this for me is just we walked out the door back in May at about 141 147 and now >> 147. >> Yeah, and and and now we're we're looking at 398. That's that's a sticker shock for me. Um and then how much time do we have to get this resolved before the deadline, which is what 30 May? >> June 30th. >> 30 June. >> Yeah, by June 30th we have to have our final amendment done for 25.6 and a budget reflection for 26 27. So we can start to work on 2014. >> And again, in going through, there's not going to be some other, you know, we >> miracle spot.
064There's not going to be. Between now and June 30th. There's not going to be. >> It's going to be a reduction somewhere. >> And I mean and these are the places where you're going to be able to again do that without seeing it impact the students. I don't know. I mean I really don't see where else that would possibly be. Um I think kind of a compromise to something, you know, kind of going back and forth between Margaret and Doug is that if you do make those reductions now and then if the new superintendent comes in and says, "Oh man, you guys cut a curriculum director, you cut whatever it [clears throat] is." And his concern is is that's that's not what I expected. Then he could obviously weigh in. I mean, what's something I
065have seen are districts that have like curriculum specialist. I mean, you hire someone that has that certification to be able to do both, right? So, I mean >> We've had that here. >> disagree with your thought to like, okay, let's kind of get the curriculum and special ed together. >> Yeah, we did. >> But it does happen. I'm just saying >> on. Guess who did. Guess who did. Don't worry about it. We did. >> [laughter] >> But it's a thing, right? It is >> Yeah, but it is a thing. You're right. >> write that position and post it that way to save that money and then he maybe could still get that support. Again, like you said, maybe it is HR that goes as well and he says, "Well, that's great. We can have an
066HR assistant and that person can do what's needed to to be done." So, I don't I don't think that you're wrong to do what you need to do to balance it, but I also to your point that I don't think that it puts him in a position where, "Oh, no, I'm never going to be able to get this team together the way I wanted to get it." Because you can re- Things could look very different at a different price point than it is on our our sheet that we're looking at right now. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. The district can handle it. >> And I can make the changes. I can't print them, but I can give you correct numbers with that if you want to make those changes before you approve it. >> Tonight?
067>> In a half an hour. >> Well, Danielle's sitting over there. Is anybody going to >> I want to >> I know. I was going to ask. She couldn't [laughter] She wanted to couldn't read that, so she said that. >> Oh, I was marked absent for for that meeting, so I don't know that I can just jump in the middle of that meeting. >> I don't know either. I think you can come in. You're still marked absent. >> You could and then it just get marked that you actually showed up. So, you showed up. Yes. It would mark >> So, you would be marked >> Jump in. >> You're only like 5 minutes late, but she got here, so you just write that she did show up. >> I know. I was thinking the same
068thing. I need the number person here. Sandy, did you want to share your thoughts or are you good? >> I mean, I think I already did. I think that, you know, I I I agree with Sarah. We have nothing that I want to do, but I am not in favor of approving a budget that is almost $400,000 taking from our general fund, nor nor would I want our new superintendent to walk into that, honestly. >> Danielle, what do you think? I know we're putting you on the spot, but you've been able to listen. >> No, I was listening. >> I know you were. >> I feel like it's just a double-edged sword. Um but >> I agree. >> Mhm. I agree with your point, Deb, of needing a curriculum director. Um but I also see
069the advantage, like Billy was mentioning, of maybe combining it for being a smaller district, is it really necessary to have both? Um but I could see how not having one completely will have a detriment in the end. I mean, we can't >> Yeah. >> Like, I think it was Ray who mentioned they need it just like any student, they need the consistency and like we didn't have a curriculum director and then we had Tony Someone called him Anthony. >> Yeah. >> Tony, you we had Tony for a while, but then Tony disappeared and then we didn't have anybody and then we had Renee and so like there's no consistency in there. So, I could see that it could be a temporary fix, but it's over time that >> Not a good thing. >> have a
070bigger impact on the students over time of just being wishy-washy with that. Like, it exists and then next year it doesn't, no, and then, you know, we'll have it while our budgets are good and then we'll just make it disappear, but I I like Billy's idea of having it combined as maybe because we are a smaller district that maybe it is capable to do a split position. >> And you know, that is that is valid, Danielle, when you're talking like that because you can for this year it is a double-edged sword and it I believe it's something that we have to do. But it doesn't mean through this next fiscal year with Pasquale and the board and administrators talking where it comes into [clears throat] doubling something up. Billy's suggesting something like that moving forward.
071But right now >> [snorts] >> this unfortunately is a decision that we have to make and for this year we're going to have to figure it out. >> No, and I I agree with you. I think that um I'm glad that you said that. I don't Oh, I don't think that it's a good idea to go to Ezra of the fact that like we're going to lay somebody off in August or September. >> I feel like that's as a I mean it's horrible. >> I mean you've been in the field of it I would not want to be like thinking all summer, "Oh, I have a job, no big deal." And then oh, guess what? Surprise, they don't have a job. Like that's insane. I would rather do it now and call somebody back than
072>> The problem is you may not be able to call them back cuz they may not be there. No, it's not then. You know how hard it is to find people to work in education? >> and we all have families and those people >> I get it. >> have families and so you're going to tell them, "Hey, guess what? In 30 days you don't have a job." Like that's >> I get it. I understand that. I get it. >> Basically leaving them high and dry and I've been in that position before, but I've also been in the position where I was told in January that in June I my position was going to be cut because of cuts and I would much rather been told in January than told >> Yeah. >> 30 days before
073I wasn't going to be getting a paycheck anymore. Like that's insane. Absolutely not. >> I mean so we already did cut the idea of changing a curriculum. That curriculum line um for the social history that we were going to change. I mean, we did already cut that. So, >> What are you talking about? >> We had this set aside for curriculum. Yes, we reduced it completely for Oh, the curriculum. >> Oh, the resources. The resources. Yes. >> We still need them. >> For the serials. Yes. But, the way that we've built it and how we're coming at it, we can take away that set aside. We were safe to do that this year. >> Got it. >> Yeah. So, we did take that away. That was like a little We did incorporate our in our
074schedule for next year the P Yes days for them to be in house on the Thursdays. I mean, they're so they've got they have that time to >> work on their own stuff about >> No one's leading it. >> I mean, it's a lot. >> [laughter] >> Well, well, so I guess in response to Margaret saying that the administrators, that's in their contract something about curriculum. I mean, would they be then the ones leading the >> No, they're they're they're the curriculum leaders. Whether you got a curriculum director or not, they're the curriculum leaders in their buildings. >> Instructional leader. >> Instructional. Thank you. They're they're you know, that's that's that's already their job. And Pasquale is coming in with a curriculum background. So, you've got a year in which this decision has to be
075made. But, within the year he has the ability with his own curriculum background, the curriculum leaders and our administrators, there are teachers who are curriculum leaders, the instructional coaches are curriculum leaders. There's a whole way to figure stuff out. >> do it because that's actually you better find extra money. They'll be the union will be Okay, Deb. I'm just telling you. >> [laughter] >> Okay. >> All I'm saying IS >> YOU I'VE BEEN THERE, tried it. >> In a year's time >> Mhm. >> sitting here next year could be a whole completely different ballgame in the sense of curriculum direction that he wants to go. We need a curriculum director back or we need a part-time curriculum director. Okay, so we look at what our finances are a year from now, how does that look?
076Right now it's it doesn't look good. This is a decision that I think we have to make, unfortunately. >> So so what what I'm what I think I'm hearing is is the the possibility of moving the HR director to a part-time 85k savings, removing curriculum director 230, and then the secretary for the curriculum and education services is retiring, so that'd be a savings of 72. >> Yeah, except that that's that position is in the bargaining unit. So it's different from the other secretary that is non-bargaining. So we're going to >> So you can figure it out. What I'm saying you can you can you can eliminate the the HR secretary with no problem. And then move in the HR part, take out the curriculum part cuz it's curriculum and special ed, move move the HR
077part into that job, and to Tammy's point, you know, there is conversations with union, but when it's financial reasons, it's a whole different ball game when you're talking with the union. And really, you aren't with within that bargaining group what you're doing, right? You're not eliminating anything. You're just kind of switching. Instead of doing curriculum, you're going to do HR, but you still have that full-time spot. >> Right. So, then and then what I mentioned before during the the meeting is let Shelly >> Yeah, you would you would you would take this one off the board cuz the the HR secretary is the 74,000. The bargaining secretary is 72,000. So, you eliminate I I just did 70,000, but you eliminate the 74,000, you're you're almost at 389,000 dollars savings. >> Right. And so, the the
078my understanding is then the amendment to the budget would be what we >> What we just said. Those three things, right? Those three >> It's not It's not an amendment cuz we haven't voted on it yet. Tammy just said she could do the paperwork to get the same numbers. >> When we vote on it, it reflects that. >> Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's yeah, that's what I mean. >> Okay. Yep. Okay. >> Yeah, I I just want to articulate it like that. >> Yep. >> And then and then ultimately, um once the new superintendent gets in position and then he can do his own assessment and and overview and then talk to all the people and he can reassess as needed that come to >> As as the year goes, yes. Yes. >> Okay. >>
079Yes. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> Is that what you want me to do? >> Is that what we're asking? That's what I want to do. >> Sarah? Candace? >> That's what I want to do. That's what we have to do. >> I want to do it, but I don't see anything else out. So, that's what I he's presented anything else. >> With reservation, but yes. I mean, it's like you said >> It's absolutely with reservation. >> I would agree. >> Okay, uh question to that. Who notifies these people? >> Well, I could tell the curriculum director. >> [laughter] >> And that I mean, it would be >> You'll be the >> Yes. >> to do. >> I Yeah, I mean >> Yeah, it would be it would be Billy's job to the curriculum director.
080And it's Billy's job, that secretary >> times is that? >> Y'all three of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately got to tell yourself, I guess. Yeah. >> Okay. Are we good now? Do we feel better? >> No, I don't either. I don't, but I mean, can we live with what we just decided? >> We have to. >> Okay. Okay. You need to move on or whatever we need to do, finish up here. >> Revenues are 23.2 million. Expenditures are going to change. >> Put it out there that when you did it out there, it like went >> Yes. >> No. Okay. >> just a breakdown of salaries, benefits, purchased services for the 2026, which will be coming down because I said earlier. Um Fund equity at the end of June 30, 2026, we're projecting 3.1 million,
0813 million 56,000, and June 30th of 2027, you'll have a new number shortly. And then our debt service, um our revenues are 4. or just over 4 million, reduced because of the change in the what mileage that we're levying. Um principal payments, interest payments, billing fees, and expenditures. Those are like we pay $500 to the bank for making our bond payments once each for the four that's 2,000 for the four bond issues. And then we have sometimes we have taxes that we have to pay. So that's that's for the 5,000. So our expenditures are estimated at 4.5 million. This was the plan when we reduced the taxable millage from 6.5 to 4.8 was to use our fund balance. So that's what this is doing. Uh food service, we have local revenues, state reimbursements estimated 20,000,
082federal reimbursements estimated 480,000. We get commodities around 59,000. Total budget revenues are 1,086,000. Now remember we're in a we're in a spend down plan for our fund balance here as well. So our expenditures food service are 1.2 million. We do a calculation based on direct cost to come up with an indirect cost of which is capped at 79,000 and total expenditures um will be about 1.3 million. In that is several hundred thousand dollars of and 300,000 just under uh >> [snorts] >> equipment for the >> The >> food service lines. So we I don't know that we have all of that delivered so this year so this year's budget reflects some in the next year for the amount we think might come next year and it's also in here. So it's in there it's in
083the final budget because we need there we put it in here because it might happen not this year but next year or so. >> So Tami real quick um the state wise have we heard anything? Are they still going to fund free and reduced lunch yet or or we don't know? >> Yeah the new the news that I've been hearing was they're probably not there's no real plans to change it. >> Okay just curious. Right okay just curious if we heard anything. Thank you. >> it's going to continue. >> Okay. >> And we've um submitted our food service application which we have to do every year to the state assuming we're going to run that program. If that goes away we will have to change um the program that we have written set a different
084one to the state. But now we're set to go for next year the same as we were this year. With the machines wellness program this >> Thank you. So, the food service when it comes time to vote for that budget, what you talked about, that includes the secretarial piece that is coming out of there. >> Yes. >> The resolution that we do. Okay. >> Correct. Food service has a point three secretary. >> Okay. >> Right. >> And then we The last one we have was a student school activity fund that basically we have to put in. So, we have all of our accounts for like the class of 20 2027, like the National Honor Society, the different athletic teams that have internal accounts where they fund raise. We hold on to that money and then
085they have the discretion. We have some discretion to tell them how they, you know, make sure they're using it the way the fund was set up to be used. So, that's our discretion. It's just Does it make sense for this group to be buying this type of thing? So, we do that. We have to total that up and put it into a separate fund and that's where you come up with Um that's where they come up with 267,000 and that's where you have expenditures of 262,000. And that just fluctuates depending on how much fund raising they do versus spending. Um but we're This is always It's always in that ballpark of 250, 270 as far as revenues and expenditures. So, that's all I have. >> Okay. Any questions for Tammy on the last couple of
086budgets here? The the food service, the school activity. >> So, I have to I'll throw it out there. >> [laughter] >> Sorry. It just It weighs on me a lot. >> [clears throat] >> So, for me I don't I don't like making on the spot last minute decisions when it comes to when you're cutting people. I know nobody got cut here. Absolutely. I'm not saying that. I just Would anybody be open to And and I don't know if we could even get the other administrators back at the table like we had before from the from all the schools to maybe do another let's one last look dig deep and see what we can get out of this. versus >> Right, they've already gone line item by line item these two people. You know what I
087mean? This unfortunately right this is where we're at. >> I thought we had a different outcome I would be very happy. >> Right, I know >> I would be on board with that except for Tammy and Billy already did say that they >> Right. >> This is it. >> This is where we're at. >> All right. Thanks. >> Okay, now there comments? Anything? Okay, next item on our agenda is public comments. Since at this time any member of the public will have 3 minutes to address the board. Please sign in and state your name if you wish to follow, please provide contact information on the sign-up sheet. Are there any public comments? >> I'm Dana McSwain. First of all, I just want to say congratulations for meeting with the governor and his I thought it
088was very very very nice to save our country. And Billy, I don't know how to pronounce your last name so I'm not going to try. But I just want to thank you for stepping in and being the agent for the school. And I thought you did a very good job. Um and I know it's hard and you knew it was going to be a battle in front of You were very professional and I just want to thank you for stopping by. Okay? Thank you. Everybody have a good night. >> Are there any other public comments? Okay, being no other public comments our special meeting will adjourn at 8:07.