001I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. Oops. Can we have a roll call, please? >> Mark Smith, >> here. >> Yeller here. >> Derek Musker >> here. Cliff Cameron >> here. >> Secretary Lundy >> here. Vice Chair Benz >> here. >> Chair Kane absent. >> Okay. Any announcements or correspondence? >> Okay. And before we get going, let's have an approval of the agenda. >> Motion. Anybody? >> Second that motion. >> All in favor? All right. >> Okay. And be I'm going to read what the public hearing is about and then I'm going to introduce um Mr. Davis. The public hearing is a resoning request. Applicant application 26-1. Applicant
002Robert Troder. Property address 3560 Lakeville Road, Oxford, Michigan 48370. The parcel ID is 05.19.376.006. The parcel size is 8.42 or as surveyed 7.40 acres. Requesting zone change from a agriculture to suburban farms. Okay. At this point, Mr. Davis. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I'll be brief. Um, I'm not sure that as a body as a whole we've done a resoning hearing or resoning request. So, we'll just go over a few procedural things. I'm not here to offer you substantive comments about the nature or the substance of the request, just an overview of procedure. Um, this is a traditional zoning reszoning request. So, um, this is a this is a request by an applicant. Every property owner has a right to seek the resing of their property. They're asking to go from one category of egg
003over to suburban farms, 10 acres down to 2 acres uh in in zoning. And um it it is not a conditional or contract resumping which came into the law several years ago where applicants could say if you reszone us to this category, we will only do this and they pledge a development and then you're left to either accept or reject that proposal. That is not before you this evening. So when there's discussions about what they plan to do, what they might do, what they think they're going to do, it's rather irrelevant at this point because the only issue before you is the reasonzoning from A to SF. And the reason I say that is because, you know, if if they were successful in getting a resoning, they could sell the property and never do what
004they told you they were going to do, and somebody else could come along and buy it and do whatever is allowed in that set. So in your mind procedurally you have to be thinking about what are all the possible uses in SF when you go from 10 acre down to 2 acre what are the all the possible uses in SF not necessarily what they're proposing or discussing if they do I would encourage the applicant that this is really not the time to talk about their development this is the time to establish before this board the basis for reszoning. So in the process, the legislative body is the township board and you'll be making a recommendation on the resoning to the township board because only the township board has legislative authority to reszone lands in the
005township. So you'll be putting together we'll help you put together a resolution of support or or denial after you've had a chance to deliberate and come up with your factors as to how you feel as a body. Um, so here you are. Um, the process requires that you hold a public hearing. Um, this is a time you think about the two words, public hearing. Here's the public. You're the ones doing the hearing. And, and the reason I say that is because this is a one-way communication. This is like me at my house. I'm just listening. Someone else is talking. Um, this is what's going to happen this evening. When you open the public hearing, you listen to what the public is saying. You don't respond, you don't question it, you don't ask questions of the
006of the public. You are here to receive the information, right? And to write down your notes and perhaps when it's time for you to have a direct access to the applicant, you can follow up on some of the things raised by the public when it's your chance to talk to the applicant. So the way the process normally goes is you've introduced very correctly uh madam chair that that the agenda item that's before us this evening the applicant will um give a brief introduction and some arguments and presentations as to why the resoning is appropriate and then um at that point you will open the public hearing by motion. So, Cliff, you will say, I move that we open the public hearing at and then you look down at your cell phone and you know the
007time and then we do the public hearing. Madam Chair, I would ask that you exhaust the public hearing. Give everybody who's here an opportunity to speak twice if they want. Take all the comments you can receive from the public because you want to hear what they have to say. Um, and then um Somebody somebody will say when it feels like the public is done, I move that we close the public hearing at a certain time. And then you will have time at at at at that point to maybe follow up with the applicant and say things, you know, well, you heard in public hearing they raised this issue. What what's your response to that? That's the time to do it. During public hearing, you manager, don't allow anyone from the public to talk directly to
008the applicant. They talk through you and through you to the board as a whole. You're the focal point of all the conversation. So that's what we're going to do. We we we we've already announced the reszoning request. You've assigned an administrative number. You have the the applicant is here. You have the partial ID, the partial size. The nature of the application is a down to SF, right? Um, and you're going to have the applicant stand up when I'm done getting paid by the word. Um, you'll have the applicant um, give a presentation on their thoughts about the reasoning. When the applicant is done with that part, we'll call for the public hearing. This is a two meeting process. When you're done with the applicant questions and you think you've heard enough for tonight and you
009want to go home and ponder this until the next meeting, um, that that is what we will do. So there would be a motion to table this matter until the next meeting at which time you would deliberate amongst yourselves and with the applicant and try to come up um to to a decision. So um I have a handout that is is right out of the um it's right out of your ordinance but I thought it would be semi handy. Um it's just the standards for consideration of land. Pretty on point, right? So, your ordinance has taken time to lay out the criteria that you should be looking at um as you're listening um to the resoning. Um as a planning commission, you're very aware that uh this community has a master plan. So, you've worked
010on that master plan. Some of you may have, some of you may have not, but there's a master plan in place, which is the township's vision of how lands in certain areas should be zoned and not zoned. I would ask that, you know, during the the time in between these two meetings, you'll you'll take a look at that. Uh in between the two meetings, I will work with your clerk and I will be sending a package to you of factual information about the property, the master plan, uh the the elements of resoning for you to look at during um your time period before you come back next meeting and and you deliberate on on the issues. So, are there any procedural questions? >> No, I think I have it all. terrible. That's great. Um >>
011um so as as you said, so now I think you allow the applicant to make their presentation and then we'll get ready for the public hearing. >> Okay. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Troder. >> Thank you, Mr. Davis. My name is Patrick Mc Williams of Kee Engineering. We have engineering surveying company. We're assisting Mr. Robert Triier with this request for reszoning. Uh I know you've looked at all the paperwork and the main reason we want to reszone it is as you know the piece uh that we're talking about is 8.42 or 7.4 surveyed acres. So right off the get-go, you know, it's not what it's zoned agricultural 10 acre. It's already under. I know that happens at times. And then in addition, Mr. TR owns three other parcels on the north side of the polyan
012trail behind which I tried to show in this uh I know it's in your package. One of them is around 43 acres. Let me make sure I'm saying this right. Uh to the north, the largest parcel is 43.41 acres. That's parcel 02. Another parcel is 6.7 acres for 403 and a third parcel is another 03 a different uh number but it's 4.07 acres. Why do I bring those up is because they're presently they're landmark. There's no way that you can you know drive into them. I mean he owns the front parts right now but we're trying to make it so they won't be landlocked. uh while at the same time uh when we ask for the request of agriculture the suburban farms in the front to do so would require an ingress egress easement off
013of Lakeville Road and I know some of the documentation we gave you survey wise shows how we proposed to do that the 66 foot wide egress ingress ement would take up to the north from Lakeville road up north of the Palan Trail and then it would also run in a uh east direction over to the third parcel north. So, we're trying to solve a couple problems. We know that right off the bat we're the present parcel that we're look seeking to be reszoned is already under 10 acres and to get any kind of ingress egress ement it would make it even further out of compliance. So we are asking for the reszoning to the SF because we need to get to these landmark parcels one and when we do so we would still have enough
014acreage left over to more than amply provide two uh up to two farms two parcels. In addition, uh if you were to look at the what's how it's zoned right now, the parcels along Lakeville to the west of us, there's about four or five of them that are already zoned SS suburban farms. And so we're not, you know, we'll be matching right along with what's been happening along the roadway and uh and and so we don't feel like it's way out of whack with what's what's already there. In fact, even the parcel directly to our east is zoned agricultural, but it's two acres. So, it's >> it's what? >> It's it's only two acres. I'm sorry. >> Did you say >> two acres? Yeah. Yeah. Uh didn't point out to you. >> This is us
015in the blue. These are some of the suburban farms that are to our west. And this small one here right next to us is a twoacre zone agricultural. So in effect it's it's doing it's acting like these other spur farms just a twoacre parcel. So we're fit my point is that we're fitting in with what's already going on along Lakeville Road. It would it wouldn't be out of you know uh character with what's already there. And it would also allow us to gain access to the three partials on the north side of the poly trail. That's the main our main exploration. >> Okay. >> There's any questions that stay a minute. >> Thank you. I didn't you finished, right? >> Yeah. Well, I mean there's all the questions that were given and went through each
016one. I'm sure you probably already read them, so I don't want to bore you with rereading them. But if you want to ask further about that, I'll just sit down for a minute. >> Yeah. I'd like to make a motion that we start the public hearing, >> Miss Yes. >> at 6:14. >> Yes. >> At We are going to open the public hearing, but first I want to go over some rules. Let's get a second on the motion. >> And then let's do a voice vote. >> Just in. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Any objections? >> Okay. >> Good job. >> When we start this public hearing, which we have opened it, there are a couple rules that you need to follow that we are here just to listen and not respond to
017a question from you. anything directed towards me, but we are just to listen and it's not going to be a decision tonight. That will be tabled at the end of the public hearing and will be discussed and so forth next meeting. And each person has the right to speak and if there's time and you have thought of something else, you may go ahead and come speak. Everybody go up to the podium, say your name clearly, and then speak whatever it is that you wish to do. And u once again, this is a public hearing on the property and there were no letters, so I don't have anything to go on by that. So we may start with pros here. You're asking Does anybody want to speak at public hearing? >> Yeah, anybody? >> I speak.
018>> Okay. >> Good evening. I'm Good evening. My name is Sage Hefel. I'm with the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, and I'm not here to offer um an opinion on any of the zoning, but um I just wanted to mention that the DNR does own the Polyan Trail that bisects this property. And so, uh, we have been in contact with Mr. Trier, but it would require, um, an easement for him to build anything that would cross the trail right away. So, that's about a 50 foot, um, rideway that we have there. So, uh, we would probably need to work in combination everybody if that were going to be the case. So, I just wanted everyone to be aware that um the DNR has been in communication with Mr. Trier and that that is something that
019would need to be resolved if that land on the north side, excuse me, for it to be accessed. >> Okay. >> Could we have a card? Do you have a card? >> I have one in my car. >> Okay. >> Is there anybody else that wish to speak? Gentlemen, we have a motion. >> I have a motion to >> close 617 >> support. Vote on it. >> Voice vote of all in favor? >> I. >> All in favor? >> I. >> No objections. So it is closed at 6:17. Anybody want to move to the table? >> I have questions for the developer after hearing which I think is appropriate. Is it not? >> Now's the time. Now's the time. Very good. So, Mr. Mc Williams, in your work for your client, did you investigate the
020possibility to request the zoning change to rural residential estates, which would align with the master plan for that area? >> We did look into that. We did look at the master plan and again that says the rule of residential is like in the five acre range and you can see what's already next to us to the west they're not 5 acres not there's some that are then they're varying sizes but so yeah although that's the future master plan that's not what's already going on there to our west and again we're trying to solve a problem uh to try to provide access to three landlap parcels. So we got 7.4 acres, you know, to get the ingress egress is just a math thing. To get an ingress egress back there, it needs to be reszoned so
021we're not in further non-compliance. >> So yeah, >> as a commissioner, I can't concern myself with how those other parcels were zoned suburban farms. I don't know what took place in the past. I can only look at what we are supposed to be looking at in the future which is the master plan rural residential. Now what does rural residential not allow you to do that's suburban farms did so that you made that decision? It's the sizing. It's to put a ingress egress in there with a rural residential you wouldn't have enough acreage to satisfy residential whereas we do for the suburban farms. That's why I mean we're not against rural residential. We're just trying to I I realize you're looking at the one parcel, but it does seem like there should be incentive to solve
022the problem. That's how it got on the books. I don't know it before me, but how few free parcels are landlocked, I don't understand either. But there is a way to solve it. That's what they hire us to do. So try to solve it. So >> thank you. Any other questions? Now, could we >> make a motion to table second? >> Okay. So, the motion to table the information until next meeting has been placed. >> Yeah, this one should be a roll call vote, please. >> Okay. Second. >> Nice support. >> Thank you. >> Mark Smith. >> Yes. >> Jenny Miller. >> Yes. >> Derek Westbury. >> Yes. >> Cliff Cameron. >> Yes. >> Secretary Lundy. >> Yes. Vice Chair Benz. >> Yes. >> So it is tabled is passed until next meeting. So now
023we uh can approve amendments from November 12th. >> Motion approved those previous minutes support. >> Anybody else approval minutes? Anybody have any find anything the motion to approve it then >> I can't hear my >> it's been okay >> any discussion >> then all in >> favor in favor >> I All right. >> Any objections? >> All right. So, there we go. Fiscal dates, which is on the last page. >> I'm glad it didn't see anything jump out wrong. >> Motion to approve. Just annoy. >> I second. >> Second a motion. Okay. >> Voicemail. All right. >> Everybody I All right. >> Public form. >> I think we're done with that. >> Commissioner reporting. >> We have nothing on the voting board of appeals agenda for meeting this month. >> Motion to adjourn. Y second.
024>> Anybody second it? >> See why hearing shots tonight? >> Okay. All in favor? >> I I