001ing of the village of Leonard Zoho Board of Appeal is to order. Let's stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Would you like to be Mr. Mr. >> President Mr. here. >> Swack here. >> Here. Zel here. >> All present. >> Okay. Um, so we have the agenda before us. Would anybody like to make a motion to approve tonight's agenda? >> I'll approve. >> Okay. And a second. >> I'll second. >> All in favor? I >> I >> Okay, so before we get into the the nitty-gritty of the meeting, um we just have some procedural items that our secretary, Jennifer Swag, is going to
002read aloud. >> If you need to go over this again, we have to read for work through. Welcome to the Village of Leonard Zoning Board of Appeals meeting. Please listen to the rules and procedures for the public hearing. There are two rules that may affect our ability to proceed tonight. First, in the public, if a public notice was not posted 15 days prior to this meeting, we cannot hold the hearing tonight. We will confirm that was done. >> All right. >> Second, we must have four board members present to proceed. 1, two, three, and four. When your matter is called, please stand and give your name and address. The chairperson will then swear you in and read the record of information we have and read the record of information we have for your application. input
003from various authorities and any correspondence received on your application. The chairperson will then ask you to make your presentation to the board. After you have made your presentation, the board will ask questions they deem appropriate and then we'll ask for comments from the public. If you wish to speak for or against an application, we ask that you wait until you're acknowledged. Stand up. Give us your name and address. Tell us where your property is in relation to the property that is in question. And then please direct your comments to the board, not the applicant. We must keep keep a record and we cannot do that if people are talking over each other or cross conversations. If you have anything additional to say, please don't hesitate to do so. But keep in mind that you'll be
004given only one opportunity to speak. After the public has spoken, the board may ask the applicant to answer questions that may have come up as a result of the public comment or for the applicant to summarize. When the applicant is asked to answer any questions, if that happens, it does not start a second round of public comments. Once the matter has been heard, various things may occur. The board may decide on the application immediately or it may reserve decision. Reserving decision does not mean that the matter is approved or denied. It just means that the board needs to needs more time to decide. They may want to go out look at the site or may want to review the documents further before deciding. In either event, the applicant will receive the board's decision in writing
005in writing shortly after a decision is made. If the application is approved, that does not mean go ahead and start construction. A building permit would need to be obtained. Jerus will take it. >> Thank you. All right. So before us we have Jennifer Arendale. Um she has applied for dimensional variance for Rosie Drive. Jennifer, could you please stand? >> Hello everyone. >> Hi. Do you affirm to tell the truth? >> Yes. >> Go ahead. Um and just one more little thing is just just all for recordeping. Would you just state your name for us again and your address? >> Jenniferale address is 45715 uh Leonard Michigan which is in letter. >> Okay. What would you like to tell us about your application? >> So regarding my application, we'd like to put in a garage which
006would be the size of a threecar garage um a 30 by 40. By doing so, if you look at the information I sent, there's pictures and I have a row of pine trees. Those pine trees are about almost say 30 ft in front of the house, but hard to tell because of the way the elevation of the house is. So, my house is here, but then it I have my driveway and then it slopes down and then I have a row of trees. Right behind that row of trees, the previous owner put in like a pad like to park a car in. Um, and I'd like to put the garage right there, allowing me to be only 22 ft in front of my garage in my house. Right. So, here's my house. So, right here.
007So, you'd be it'd be very difficult to see the the difference from the road, but by doing this, it allows my property to continue the drainage to the back, which is all swamp land. So, it doesn't hurt the drainage there. Also, due the due to the aesthetics of Leonard Estates, um it allows me to turn the garage so my garage doors don't face the road. They actually face my house, which is the way that all but one house is like that in my sub is that all of the garages are turned so you don't see them from the road. So like you don't see the opening of the doors from the road to make it a clean um look throughout the neighborhood. So that's what I'm asking for is just that little bit of furniture
008so I can put in the garage there allowing a for my property to drain correctly and two to keep the aesthetic of my uh subdivision. I've already gone out to the subdivision to the people. I've posted it on our we have a letter estates Facebook page. I've posted it there. Nobody. Everyone has given me thumbs up hoping that we get it because again they don't want the garage doors facing the road. Even if I placed it somewhere else on the property, a there' be a there' be an issue in the back because again my garage doors have to face the road and nobody in my sub would want that because again you're looking for aesthetics um in the type of sub that Liverstates is. Um, so I've also gone to and made sure that all
009of my neighbors know within the 300 ft of my subdivision and none of them have an issue with the servants at all. They're all hoping that I get it. Um, and I just got a documentation pin on that as well. Um, again, we're trying to build it so it matches the aesthetic, the architecture style of our house. um there as well. So again, that it blends in architecturally and with the way that the neighborhood is. >> Okay. Um we have any questions? >> You know, at this point, what I need to do is see if any citizens >> um have any comment and then what we'll do is we'll kind of like move on from there to ask some questions after that. So this is kind of like our first round. So, um, is there
010anyone in the audience that would like to make comments or questions, um, for Jennifer or for ourselves on this zoning variance? Okay, I'll take that as a no. So, um, what we can do now is as, um, zoning boarded appeals members, um, we can direct our comments to Jennifer that we might have regarding, um, her presentation on zoning varants. Um, so I um are you the original owner? Did you build the home or was it already existing? >> No, it was already existing. >> It was existed. >> And was it just the home itself or was it and were there any outuildings or any accessory buildings? >> No, it was just the home. >> Okay. Is the the garage that you're looking to build, is anybody in any way going to live in that unit?
011>> No. >> Okay. So, it won't be habitable. And are there any commercial activities that would be happening in there? >> Um, are there other alternatives? I noticed on your diagram that you do have option two. >> Yes, option two. If I put it all the way back there, that means I also have to put in another driveway um on my property. By doing that, that's that's not going to, if you want to say, more of a hardship due to the fact that now it's another driveway that has to go onto the property. And again, you're looking at the aesthetics of the neighborhood. Um, and they're probably not going to want me to run a driveway straight all the way back on one side. It would also I'd have to be careful because I do
012have a well there. Um, which would cause me issues as well trying to get around that. >> Yeah, I know. I noticed that uh on your your diagram you did get us a well, right? You didn't show us where your well is located. >> Actually, is it is it up front? It's not way up front, is it? No, on the front is my septic field is the front of the house is a septic field and then on the side of the house to the south side is my well. So then I I planted an orchard um on the side which you can't really see with the diagram but there's an orchard there. And so I would have to remove those and try and get around to get into the back. So, currently in Leonard Estates,
013um, I know that there's, for lack of a better word, I don't want to use the word defunct because I I can't think of what how to say it, but the HOA guidelines that you currently have, they're not enforceable, right? >> Correct. They are not. >> Okay. So, cuz I know that there's a white house in there. There's somebody else whose garage is facing another direction. >> That's the White House, >> right? Right. Okay. >> Yeah. All All >> It all comes down to that white house. So, I guess what I'm trying to I'm trying to do is not be that white house because I'm trying to appease a lot of neighbors by making sure I can get that garage doors turned. Um, so again, it's going with the flow and the aesthetics of everything
014in Leonard estates because even if I put it towards the back in that B location, the only way I can do that is with those doors facing the road. >> Right. Right. >> So, um, and then I still have to put in another driveway. Mhm. >> Um, so that's why when they built the house, they put it in that pad already there. So it was like that they were going to like like that was their idea is to build there anyways. Um, the nice thing is is that this would be behind my my pine trees. So you really you're not really going to see it much. Do you know what I mean? You're not going to see the variance. You're not going to see the different depths. Um, it's going to be very, per se
015from the road, it's going to be very difficult to tell. >> Pine trees are how tall? >> How tall are they pine trees? >> 40 ft. >> They've been like they're the original pine trees of the property. So, they're huge. Any other planning commissioners have any other questions that they might want you to ask at this time? >> Um, why did you go with the dimensions of 30x40? That's a unusually large garage for two cars. >> I would need a threecar garage. I have, if you come to my house, which you're more than welcome, I have a lot of four-wheelers and a lot of motorcycles, dirt bikes. >> Okay. >> So, my kids race. >> Yeah. >> So, I need a place, what I'm trying to do is give them a place that they can
016work on everything and keep it there versus having a trailer or something else trying to work out of. That's just not feasible. And there's no way of moving it back to the 20 foot so that you're at the same level uh off of >> because if my driveway like when you come out my driveway at my house here's my driveway it drops like it's like a sledding hill so it drops and then it drains out to the back. >> Yeah. So, by doing that, I've got to start bringing in a ton of dirt, which now I'm starting to change the drainage of the property. And I'm worried about that because the pond, which is not mine, in the back of the property, right? Everything drains out. >> Yep. I can see there's quite a quite
017a drop off that goes from the front to the back. >> It is. So, when I've I've had three different like builders come out and talk to me and they're like, "Well, if you do this and move it forward and put it here, it'll cause less of the drainage issues." And I'm like, "Okay, so that is why I'm here now." >> Okay. So if um I just want to give and the other zoning board members an opportunity to ask any more questions. Okay. So um Jennifer, what I'm going to do at this time just because this is not like a regular thing that we do, I don't want to share with you in the audience what our criteria is for making decisions. Um so we as a zoning board are kind of held to a
018criteria of three standards. And um as far as the the law goes, what we need to do is either in your presentation that you made to us is you need to prove that all three of those standards are something um that you meet our criteria and we could say yes. If you don't meet one of those criterias, then we're kind of guided as a board to uh decide not to approve the variance. So, um the variances are, you know, um they run with the property and with all future owners. So, what we're going to looking at is Oh, I just made a couple little notes. So, I just want to Item number two that the practical difficulties or both which will result from failure to grant the variance include substantially more than one inconvenience inability
019to attain higher financial return or both. So basically what they're saying is is there another way that it can be done because is it just is it a mandatory thing like if if your house let's say didn't have running water and you said this is not an inconvenience this is something that we need to live and then that's something that we could adjust and change but when it's something that's just a matter of inconvenience because you have more toys, for lack of a better word, then it creates um a situation where we're as a board not supposed to just say, well, as much as what you say makes sense, you know, and it's logical, but we have to follow these standards and we have to meet them in order to make a judgment on this.
020um because there is an alternate location that you can use to build your accessory building without variance, we wouldn't really be able to go ahead as a board and vote on that. Now, all the all the members, you know, get a vote, but just as far as basic standards that were held to to make a ruling, that's kind of how we have to go. So, um, >> can I ask a question? What about like the other houses? I'll use Porter Lane. They have their garage in front of their house. >> Mhm. >> So, that was built or the house down the street was their house. Their garage is built in front of their house instead in the back of their house. It's the green house. Um, I'm just questioning those. >> Sure. >> And now
021I understand times can change. But again, I'm sure that there's alternate locations that those could go. >> What happened in the past with prior administrations or however long ago that was, you know, I can't speak to, you know, they're ordinance violations. They shouldn't have happened, but they did. But I think what we're trying to do is to set a standard and say, you know, these are what's set forth for a reason for the basic overall overall well-being of the community. And that's kind of what we need to look to and it is upsetting when you see things like that. Um, and know that you're trying to do all the things the right way and you know it becomes difficult. So I definitely empathize with it for sure. Okay. >> But it's just that one of
022the reasons I did this too was a again because of the drainage of the property. So I don't like hurt that but also due the fact that because of our homes and and lates on how they wanted a certain look per se in our south which we bring in a lot of tax revenue for the village. >> Sure. So, I'm trying to keep that aesthetics going so that way it doesn't diminish anything within the neighborhood. And again, all of Winter Estates knows that we're trying to build this and they've all been very very positive with it. >> Right. Right. and and once again us as a board um you know it's it's difficult to make these decisions because you know you do have support of your neighbors but we're not supposed to look at when
023we make these decisions things like that we're supposed to look at does this meet these standards if it doesn't we can't grant the variance and so that's kind of the position that we're So, okay. So, right now you're telling me you can't grant me this variance. >> Correct. >> I would need a motion. Obviously, >> I I have a question. Well, then why would you go out to my neighbors and ask them if they had issues? >> Because it's the law. I had to. >> Okay. They've all approved it and said yes. They would rather have that versus my graduates facing the road, which I totally get. No one wants to see that, >> right? in the neighborhood. >> Right. Right. I realize it's a it's a difficulty, you know. I do. >> Okay. So,
024at this point, um, where we're at is I'm wondering if we have any board members that would like to make a motion. If no one does, I can make a motion. and you can decide to vote to or for or against. Um I'll make a motion to deny the request for the front yard variance. Um excuse me. Yes, it's not the front yard. It's actually the side yard, >> right? But >> you just said front yard. >> Well, the line of where your home started your house is set back. is actually 22 ft in front of the sideyard varants from my house. So you're talking like me to you like and it's not much but again it's due to like the drainage of the property. It's still called the front yard only because the line
025that runs from your front like your front door across straight across anything from there to the road is considered front yard. So, your variance actually the way it's listed is asking for a front yard, not a sideyard. So, um, does that track? >> Okay. Okay. >> So, um, I make a motion to deny the request for the front yard variance section 4.1 4.17A by Mrs. for the catch site building on 4571 Rosie Drive because it does not meet standard 2 in section 24.06A. Further, this denial is due to these findings of the fact that there is an alternate location where the homeowner can build the accessory building without a variance. Um, I would like to ask a second on that motion. I'll second the motion. >> Um, can I do a roll call vote on
026that? >> Alani or call on that because I'm stepping back into my old pardon me. >> Uh, no. >> I'm sorry. >> No. Is did you say no to agree with the denial or to not agree with the denial? >> Uh I did two >> to to agree with the right. Agree with >> agree with the the denial. and swag. I am going to ask you to disagree with the denial. Lori, >> agree with the we have one, two, three, four agrees and one disagree for the record. Okay, so the motion passes. Thank you. If there is no further business to come before the Yes. >> plan information. >> Um yeah, we had a zoning board of appeals meeting today for a variance request. >> So when planning commission >> um next month, I think,
027right? >> Yes. >> well, possibly next month. >> Yes. If if there's business in front of the planning commission, then I would be >> if we have business, we'll meet in October. If not, we will push forward. >> Do you have another date? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Do you um would you like to make a request to be put on the agenda for the next meeting, the next time the planning commission meets? >> Okay. So, you're going to be also you I know that you came to a village council meeting and you asked to be put on the agenda for the village council. Do you want to stay on that one, too? >> Um, yeah, I've got two different things going. So, yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> I I think I think the regular meeting
028I got to deal with this building over here. There's so much screwed up in the past. I don't even know how to fix it. It just it's overwhelming. >> Okay. >> Um >> things went on that shouldn't have it was our home village. It's our home village. Um >> I understand >> it sits there. >> Yeah. They were the ones that created the situation. We We lost an enormous amount of property that I could use for a septic. The fire department could use it. This building could use it and that building could use it. from 18 sub 189 on uh someplace in that time frame of maybe 1950 something went on where all of a sudden that property went away and and I'm I'm gathering that and we're going way back there was a sawmill
029over here correct over there in the 1800s and they had to bring the logs in from the west. So they decided to cut through where the alley is. Pretty soon it ended up being village property and 40 ft on the north of the alley disappeared into what is now Janet's property. I think we need to get that property back where it goes so we can have a septic field in these four buildings or we should just tear them down. That's that's the way I feel. >> Okay. >> It's going to involve lawyers because it is a touchy situation. I've got somebody you can talk to about this. It's it's our health department rep for this area. He could tell you the whole story on this. I don't even know if he knows the stuff in
030the 1800s, but he he he discovered things here that shouldn't have been in the attic, but they are. And there happened to be on my particular property. They put a catch basin in right behind the firewall that never caught any water. The water could never get to it. And it turned out it wasn't for catching water. It was for getting rid of sewage. I don't even want to say it, but that's what they just got. >> Okay. So, >> we need to fix this. >> Okay. So, you are going to bring are you going to bring a proposal to the next planning commission meeting? like something I just want to be certain if we ask the planning commissioners to meet because sometimes we'll only meet four times a year if we don't have something on
031there. If you are coming to spitball or are you kind we could probably just sit down outside of this and and maybe have a one-on-one, you know, where a couple people could just sit down and meet with you where we wouldn't need to bring the whole planning commission together. So, or are you planning on bringing like a proposal I don't even know what to say about it because it's it's really weird. >> Okay. All right. It sounds >> we need to brainstorm and figure out how to solve this. We can't use this building cuz it doesn't have a septic field. Septic field never has. Fireball never had one. This one never had one. My building does have one, but it could be much much bigger. I think I could have set 3700 more feet of
032footage for a septic field if I got property back that originally was there. >> Okay. >> I I don't know how it even disappeared. >> Okay. It sounds to me like maybe since you don't have anything like fared out, maybe I could ask some of the planning commissioners that are here right now if they would just want to sit down with you and me more on a one-on-one than in a structured meeting where we could you could just tell us what you've got and we could just kind of >> digest that information. >> That would be wonderful. >> Okay, why don't we do that? just spend an hour and a half register these wherever it is here. >> All right, let's do that. I know where to find you. So, um I after I speak
033with some of the other planning commissioners um about some availability. Maybe we could just sit down for an hour with you one day and go over it. Okay. That it doesn't have to be an official meeting. >> We should uh we should include the health department for this area. He's he's he doesn't know what to do. >> Okay. Well, you can we it's just a start for now, you know, if you want to just however you want to do it. We'll come up with a date. So, um that being the case, right before we adjourn, um being that this might be just kind of a private one-on-one meeting, I think might just be easier. Um for us, I don't think it requires a meeting. Um, is there any items that would be on October's agenda
034that would cause us to need to meet? >> Okay. >> All right. So, we could probably get a motion to not um not meet >> um in October. Yeah. And then you can pass that on to the council at the next meeting. >> I'll just let the council Is there anybody who would like to make a motion to cancel October's planning commission meeting? >> Okay, I'll make a motion. Um, I'll make a motion to cancel October's planning commission meeting. I have a second. >> Second. Can I have an all in favor? I >> I >> Okay. Um, we are adjourned. >> Oh, I'm sorry. We need a motion to >> I'm going to get the hang of this yet. So, this is my This is my first one, right? >> I think that's actually the
035only thing that you don't need a motion for. >> Oh, I don't. Oh, you should do it. >> That's why you don't have it on there. >> I'll make a motion first. >> Okay. Anybody? >> Second. We are all in favor. I >> I done