001okay i' like to call to order after I turn my mic on um the Charter Township of Oxford Planning Commission regular meeting Thursday February 27th 2025 we could start by raising uh standing and paying respects to the flag to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you uh number three we could note the role noted there is a quorum all right number four approval of tonight's agenda get a motion to approve tonight's agenda motion to approve tonight's agenda second okay we have a motion we have a second any discussion seeing none all in favor any opposed motion carries uh number five conflict of interest exp partake contact does anybody have anything they need to discuss
002or report tonight see none number six uh approval of the minutes planning commission regular meeting February 13 2025 motion for approval of minutes Planning Commission regular meeting February 13 2025 second okay we have a motion we have a second any discussion seeing none all in favor I any opposed motion carries number seven public comment on items not scheduled for public hearing or on this agenda seeing no public we'll move to number eight commissioner comments if anybody has anything they would like to address or discuss okay see nothing uh move to number nine unfinished business Master Plan update good evening planning Commissioners my name is Megan Masson Min I'm our principal with Carla Wartman Associates um and a colleague of Mato Pasa um I I I've been involved with the master plan from its beginning um
003and had helped with the steering committee that had done the public engagement um and then um tonight UMO had some personal business that um I thought like I could handle this meeting on my own um and then um we could go from there um you have you received a electronic copy of it last week um ideally we' have gotten that to you a week earlier there were some hiccups you can getting you there so what um we would offer is that this is the first of three work sessions on this draft if you want um so I know that you all got hard copies tonight and may want to spend some time with those and mark them up um Mato is here every Tuesday and Thursday if you could give us a commitment that within
004the next week you would get us any handwritten edits um that would be that would be helpful and then we could turn those back around um to have the that as part of something to you for your last meeting in March our only commitment at this point is to get something to the Township board by April um we had sent you a memo also in your packet asking a couple of questions what we've done over the process of this master plan and I know we have four new planning Commissioners who haven't been with um been on the Planning Commission during that whole time is there were a number of things that the Planning Commission hadn't seen before but what we've done over the over the course of the last year is brought different sections um
005for Planning Commission to look at got bless and then we put them all in this final draft um that's before you tonight um so we had some very specific questions about the future land use chapter because that chapter um and that's on page 52 has some guiding factors um that are from the current master plan and then we updated the text on the urban service areas and the roadway capacity um the Reclamation of extractive sites before we got it into the future land use descriptions and we wanted to make sure that that provided clear guidance on future land use decisions so I wanted to start there with discussions of this this is the only agenda item for tonight we can do what works best and is most effective for you um so but that was
006the leading question and I will not be offended if you start off and go someplace else you want to just start and go down a line or um well she had a leading question right what was your my leading question was that future land use chapter Pages 52 to 76 do those provide clear guidance on future land use decisions okay and then are there any changes needed I think they do yeah as I read through it it seem to make sense to me it spell out pretty clearly somebody's only had this in front of them for a few weeks right yeah it's been mhm so I think read descriptive yeah on page 52 you talk about guiding factors but we don't me we talk about proximity to the Village of Oxford but we don't talk
007about proximity to a mixed land use areas because you could have high density housing we because it talks about having the high density Housing close to the village and then then it's supposed to taper off everywhere else except for the Mixed ju areas except for those mixed jued areas so that might be a bullet or or an addition at least call that out this part of one of the guid factors so that the high density is close to the Village yeah basically it's the proximity to the to the mixed use okay so we would maybe add something on page 52 to that guiding factor and then on page 55 add a bit more to that paragraph under the proximity okay all right so I'm generally seeing nods from folks that as decision makers reading this
008chapter it gave you a good concept of what your decision making parameters would be in good guidance I think so what about what about the elite frogging thing um it just this the transition I just I don't I really don't understand that so if you could help me understand that a little bit more um Le frogging in terms of utilities yeah it says in order to maintain uh coordinance development Township decision making should only span um it's on 53 at the last paragraph it basically you know it just it's it just abruptly ends I don't know if they like I didn't understand it so like I guess guess I I had to look it up okay so be more descriptive about lead pring so basically it's that the city do the township doesn't want to
009extend utilities yeah it just stops it just doesn't explain it like so somebody's going to ask a billion questions okay thanks I'm just looking through my MTH sorry no that's fine I'm I'm with awkward silences I don't want to be too picky so when it comes to stuff but stuff that I don't understand I will say so I just go back into a previous topic that discussed with M taale last time on page 49 um the water system it says the water district is currently in good condition what does that mean we have lots of capacity for new people we it's brand new it'll last another thousand years what does that mean it's just the platitude okay we'll go we'll go back to the township engineer and get more clarification on that something more quanitative
010opposed to just being you know the sky is blue looks nice okay thanks our other questions were our next question was specifically about the open space and green was plan on 70 to 72 um and to me after spending a lot of time with this document the maap on page 72 to me seemed to be the most helpful and guiding where future development should be since it's identifi it's basically the areas that are in white are areas where there would be availability for development if you're looking to protect agriculture protect natural features um and then it has the we kept as it had been before we kept that um safety path system and trail system over it but I know for the Planning Commission protection natural features in Woodlands has been a much more in-depth
011discussion and there's lots more concerns that have come from the public in this master plan round that there had been previously did you uh happen to meet with the safety path committee today um Matteo did and then we got updated um from supervisor Curtis we got an updated map um um that was done by Jim Sharp so um they identified I think 17 different segments um for the safety path of master plan and that way we put those as a low priority or high priority and then splitting them in half so we would update this map according to the according to that still going to do the low and high priorities on that um I thought we weren't um but okay we can we can figure that out they have them listed one through 17
012that's yeah those are the priorities within the safety path committee itself we weren't we weren't going to make those part of this docum right so we could just identify all of them we could identify them as high priority or low priority those are the two choices or you just have a picture of the proposed here's the overall what the master plan looks like yeah and just and just do that and no priorities and no priorities okay because yeah it doesn't make sense from a safety path standpoint we don't look at them that way from this group is low priority this group is high priority we try to prioritize the whole thing okay you know one through an well that was where I was headed here because two weeks ago when we approved the nursing center
013it had a safety path across the front M which was approved but there are two side streets and they said they did not want to put safety paths in that they would pay for those now are we still going to let that go on that means that we're going to have mixture of safety pass no safety pass and we talk about that a little bit here about things being sort of disjointed today with respect to safety PS yeah that's exactly what they're trying to do within that committee is to remove that disjointness and and not have these safety paths that go to nowhere okay all right so should we say something about that in this document that we're not going to accept payment in L of would not say that at this point we haven't
014figured out how we're going to handle how do you make it fair for developers who have to put in safety paths and and those that don't should everybody pay should just some folks pay and do it so that's something we need to we need to resolve in terms of the way we establish the ordinance right now the ordinance says everybody must do it either must pay or put in the state so we're going to we're going to revisit that and uh do what makes sense and I know the plan was or the way we thought a lot is to do away with or somewhat do away with the pay in L because we want the safety pad yeah but there will be Case by case situations like the senior over there because there's going to
015be two areas that are going to be developed down the road if we make them put the safety path in when that gets developed it's just going to get torn out during construction wouldn't it be better to take those funds that they pay off and put in a high interest or a high interest making uh fund and then use that money to either put new safety paths in for people or if that safety path needs to be done then they would actually do it so instead of having the the the people that own the property put it in no they should pay the township and then we put it in they do pay the T yeah what I'm saying is but they normally would put it in if they're doing a new development like if
016that if that Community right now wants to put those safety paths in they can do that but they choose to pay instead so what we should do is we should have the contractors the the homeowners pay the township and then have them do the safety Fest so that way we can actually make money on the stuff and then eventually use it as cash flow and then we can put safety pass in throughout all Boxford would argue that construction cost have g a lot faster yeah but you're taking well I mean that's the investment part and you lose money on that at Le you at it between now last well I mean everything's went up drastically so in fact there develop having to tear out a safety path that developer put in 20 years ago because
017F to disrepair and it's going to cost 20 times 10 times more than what it originally good thing you know somebody that does catway y and Mr Turner to answer your question the mechanism on whether people can pay and L for safety path or whatnot that doesn't need to be specified in the master plan because the master plan is such a big picture doent um you can you don't have to have that specificity of policy choices here that was going to be kind of my comment because the master plan is a guide for this commission to use when when approving plans right and right now I mean it's sort of a question that I have but it's also a comment we voted on that last week one of the things to vote on was that
018very thing so if we don't like the IDE of them not putting a safety bath in would not vote for the pay lo I agree and I think the option the flexibility there is probably more optimal but as far as this document goes we can spell out what we prefer and then that way is a guiding thing for the next five years we're all on the same page as to what the original intent of the master plan was us right so so in term satisfies everybody yeah just from what I'm hearing in terms of changes to the safety path portion so on page 66 that table will be updated with the 13 priority paths that are identified by the safety path plan um that was agreed upon today we'll take out the priority column on
019table seven and then we'll update the map on page 67 so it just shows the pr priority segments and it does not differentiate by color between low and high priority so all those segments and and folks will be able to infer by the number of those segments which are the high and which are the low priority ones because they W they are numbered one through 17 and then number one is the high priority yeah well and I 17 is the low priority I think what we do in in this document okay instead of putting one two one one through 13 we'll just put them in that order in the table and it's fine it yeah okay just so onar why why are we why is there no priority on it they're all you saying they're
020all prioritized they're prioritized at the committee level we don't prioritize them as high and low at for this document okay I check because there may be instances that come up such as the priority path by the High School where when you originally looked at this circumstances changed and also a funding funding changed where instead of doing Priority One it was it was expedient at the time to do what was maybe marked as priority five um and so don't want to necessarily shackle yourself in a plan to say we have to do somebody might say oh you can't do five because you have one two three and four ahead of it okay so so is that the clarification then we don't want to spell it out here in priority in a priority list because it would
021be viewed as skipping priorities to to move things around yeah when in reality it's just how things play out yeah okay understood thank you okay and then also when we're in this area of the plan I think before the meeting a number of people had said that m 14 the potential natural areas map that could be crisper we'll definitely take that note um yeah I think to add on to that I all the maps should probably be looked at because some of them are really crisp and some of them are not right so we're going to update one we can then maybe we can do all of them yeah just to make them all match yep um I think they look good digitally it's just when you print them yeah that's why I said it
022might just be the format yeah and then we open then we update map 15 as well with that safety path with with the safety path priorities 1 through um anything else on the open space Greenways before we go to concept plans all right um on pages 73 through 76 these are concept plans and we had the Planning Commission had spent I want to say about four meetings on these yeah um and really when we we looking at them we're looking at we've got input from the property owner what they were looking to do um these are sites that would likely be developed in the next 5 10 years um also looked at some other sites when we went through this process um and these two were the two were decided that a concept plan made
023sense um and so but what the Planning Commission had seen before always were drafts of the maps that are on page 74 and 76 then we also added text that call out the priorities for these areas that are Illustrated on the but went into a little more detail um about road paving when those should be if and specifically for some that the paving needs to happen before you could implement this concept plan or certain utilities need to happen before you implement those we wanted to make sure that these number one for the planning Commissioners who were part of those conversations that this reflects what your discussions and your understanding were and then for folks who weren't part of those discussions but now are reading it um is it clear what the Township's envisioning for these
024properties and if someone brought a development proposal in front of you do you think that you have good guidance I personally like these a lot I I think as a new member it it really does help to understand visually where the developments and what they will be and what what the plan or the vision is for the area what would help me though is if they label if the in the map the the roads were labeled okay so it gives you a better sense of where I am in the township and the magnitude of the project the concept yeah would it help also to have like a inset map where it showed where it is in the overall oh yeah that would be beneficial as well okay all right and it's just Mr Bailey and
025Mr Turner um did these reflect what you think the conversations were yeah M okay no I think it was a good job well those are our very specific questions about things that were new but we also wanted to know what changes would be needed overall in terms of content or formatting if you have small picity things on formatting I think we can take those offline um but there are some big Concepts like I I wasn't clear on this term and and so those need to be clarified or I felt like this other layer of information could be added things that you feel like would be beneficial to discuss with your colleagues I would invite you to share those now so one overall thing I was looking for is is we have this master plan if
026it were completely executed what would be the the overall ratio of residential to business langers what is our goal for this Township yeah and I think that's Illustrated on the future land use map but I don't know that we have done that in terms of breaking it out by acreage that me I mean it's kind of the vision right we want to have so much business use and we want to have so much res itial use as we develop this community what does that look like you kind of have it in pictures what is that yeah and the is it 9010 is it 8020 you know 7030 yeah maybe like there's some other stuff in there too like mixed use and Industrial and right so if we could see all those blended into one map
027I think it would be so visual visually beneficial I mean the future land use map on page 62 that's what that intent is is that when it's all built out this is what it would look like so yeah it's it's a picture and and it's hard to interpret Right add some quantitative information to that what does that mean so like so a table that for each of those that says it's this much acreage it's this much percentage of the area yeah something like that okay either percentage or acreage you know we we we're got we've got 10 million AC for business use and one acre for hous probably the but okay yes but you see what I'm saying yes I see what you're saying maybe something could be added to this stable on page 87
028it talks about BR use categories the associated zoning districts and how much is the associated zoning District yeah so that's a state law that's a requirement by state law that table um we could I I think what we could do is do a table as um Mr Wagner was talking about with those I I guess it's just a stylistic thing whether that goes in the future land use chapter or whether that would go in the implementation chapter I think impl ation chapter seems to be to make more sense okay and maybe because because that represents complete vision and and not so much just the Future Okay and then with some sort of mechanism to track yeah so where we at where we at this is what we have this is what we want to have
029this is where we're short going to be 5 years 10 what okay yep we can do that any other questions those were my questions is just um would just be interested is there anything else that you felt that was missing just do update page three the acknowledgements or no oh you ask just knowledgement not and it doesn't represent the current state okay well all right so former all right that's fair I get it now yeah there were a lot you're fine you're fine well I don't have anything else I'm sure I'll have more questions as I read through it a little more thoroughly um but yeah you said Mato is up here Tuesdays Thursdays yeah if you could get things to him by next if you written pages and things you could get to him
030by next Thursday which is the 6th of March MH um then that gives us more than enough that that would give us a week to put things in and then we could give you a newp be printed out at your table when you have your next Planning Commission meeting and that Planning Commission meeting is going to be pretty you you've got a number of public hearings that night so it might be best to just we give you a revised hard copy you all can look at it and then look to have some sort of action item at your second meeting in March well you know I do have a question sure we go back to page 12 objective seven we talk to using opportunities to improve the road system within the township does the township
031actually have the ability to improve the road system you can influence the changes to the road system so with new development you can definitely look to improve the road system for instance if that Levy proper to the railroad concept plan um you could look to have that you know you're requiring you're saying that we want this road installed because that's going to improve our street Network um otherwise you are in some ways at the mercy of exactly the road commission and M do because there are other instances within the document where you talk about widening roads and connecting roads that need to be connected I'm thinking I don't think we do that no you don't do that but you do meet with rcoc every year yeah um they have more weight when they go to
032the federal government when they go to the state when they can point to a master plan that the communi that input on and say these are needed that helps you to get it on their tip or well or on the schedule all right so then my point is this document reads like we do that but we really can't do that we we try to influence government agencies to you know to do what we would like to do to support our growth but we can't actually go off and do some of the stuff this we can do some of the things in fact we did things this year on some of the gravel roads Yeah we actually spent somewhere around $300,000 and had roads graveled with new gravel put on yeah and we we had the
033money we took it to the county and got there buying for them to do it sure okay but we paid for it from the township can we wide roads can we connect them where we want well I would add that I did read in here that it says that we can't do certain things with the roads but yeah he did spell out or was spelled out in here about what she just described was it and then this objective as I'm reading it is more or less kind of like what we were voting on last meeting where we were all very concerned about the road and traffic patterns that were going to be created by implementing that new development over there and so I think really what this is reading is is more or less as
034a guide for this commission to be able to you know take that into account or approving different developments so I think it's good to leave in in my in my well I don't have a problem leaving it in I just wondered if there should be some kind of a you say there's a clarification in there somewhere to it here but I do remember I was reading through it it was SP yeah I think it's more in the background chapter yeah it talks about traffic and who owns the roads and what their funding is and I just hate I would just hate to give folks the wrong impression that we can do something where we actually can't and where we can't do stuff with the roads if you look objective seven on page 12 12 you
035know says that we at a committee your Township we can minimize the traffic impact yes so approving you're not approving stuff to help mitigate stuff we can't control would help okay any other questions no no thank you but thank you all for putting some work the work into this um we look forward to your continued input um as I said I spent a lot of time with this document over the past two or three weeks pulling together this draft and we use we try to keep true to the 2019 structure and it really does set up protecting your Township and living growth to only certain areas and it does a fine job of walking through the details of why um and so that's something I think that you've had in your master plan since 2010
036um and so I I think when this would be done I'm surprised that it's never been nominated for an award and I think that might be worthwhile for the township to consider because you're looking to limit growth in a very strategic way based on um really unique aspects of your community now when I read this document it's a solid document I was very impressed overall so I mean really well done I agree and I would add that the this draft over the last one has hugely improved from a understanding perspective just the way that it's been formatted is really in the pictures and things that have been added helped so I think anybody reading it would probably concur with Mr wager I I agree I agree you know I mean when I when I read
037through it um obviously I was on the master plan so I was surprised really because I mean I I had a vision but it wasn't on paper yet so it's really awesome well thank you and thank CJ because he is The Talented photographer who took the majority of the pictures in here and was kind enough to share them with us um and then Mato has really helped to um write this along with all of you and along with all the planning commissions and Township boards that came before and another colleague of mine has done most of the formatting I'm I've only been the person helping to weave the spider web we appreciate well thank you and I'm sure I'll see you next month thank you okay moving on to number 11 communication committee reports um
038we don't have a Economic Development uh committee report um what about ordinance Review Committee uh we have not met since the 13th of February and we will meet the next time on the 13th of March at well no okay and just a point of order for Susan um is it appropriate now to appoint Patty to the ordinance review or how does that have to go about um Tech if you're still interested it's it's not on the agenda and so the only way you can amend your agenda at this point because you've already approved it is if you had a full board and it was unanimous okay well so you could um just send Cheryl an email well don't send it to Cheryl um send me an email okay because between Kelly and I and Mato
039will'll be doing your next agenda and just remind us to put that on there to a point Patty okay now that doesn't mean that she can't go to the Mee to the 13 right yeah she can still go to the meeting just make your official appointment that night okay did that work for you yes it works for me okay and when did we meet 13 13th no and I won't be in attendance to that because that would give four people so that's yeah so if Pat's going to be there then yeah then I'll step away okay small one over here through the door to the left okay okay and do you have a bad to let you in yet yes okay okay um number 12 planning and engineer reports um as I indicated before um
040the next meeting on March 13th you have uh resoning that's scheduled it's um the northwest corner of drainer um and leir Road The Proposal is to rezone it from office to um C2 also that night there'll be public hearings for animal definition for zoning or amendments dealing with animal definitions uh state license dayc carees and then also um gas stations in i1 and I2 and um whether they can have a Associated retail store um currently they cannot The Proposal is to allow them to do so in i1 and I2 it's currently they're allowed to have those I believe in C2 um and or has talked about it um Mato said that you guys had been brought up to date about it um but that this is a bit uh it's going through a different process
041um than usually with the orc recommending it um because it was brought by the Township Board to um for the Planning Commission to look at that did I sum that up correctly um and then there's been several pre-application meetings um in the past month so we anticipate that you will have developments before you at your Google meetings all right very nice well thank you very much welcome um I guess the only thing left is a motion for adjournment motion to adjourn second all in favor I we are adjourned