001e that just for a second we're ready to start good afternoon and welcome to the school board work session Workshop today is Tuesday February 13th 2024 and it is 12:35 p.m at this time I'm calling the meeting to an or to order we're going to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance followed by a moment of silence and reflection please join me I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all than can you may be seated at this time I want to welcome those of you that are here with us in the audience or at home listening or we'll be watching this at a later time I'll start by introducing the individuals that are
002here with me on my far left I have Mr Carl persus representing District 4 Mrs Jesse Thompson representing District 3 Mr Aaron wolf our Schoolboard attorney moving over to my far right I have Mrs sles Gilmore our agency clerk Mr Ruben cologne representing District 5 Mrs Anita Bernett our vice chair representing District 2 our superintendent Dr Carmen balaman and I am Jamie Haynes the chair of this year representing district one we have three items up for discussion today during the workshop I want to remind every everyone that a workshop is a time in which we as school board members can come together to discuss things that we have questions about or that possibly could be moving on to an item for voting and so our items today are 2.01 3.01 and 4.01 we're are going
003to get started with item 2.01 which is the internal audits for purchasing and procurement for the fiscal year 2020 3 and a follow-up piece so for those of you that are not aware in 2019 legislation was passed that the school board would oversee internal audits happening in our schools or in our district level positions and so we have a group of community members as well as myself that chairs that committee and we have been doing this since 2019 so this is just the next round of our audits so with us today we have Mrs Laura manlo who is the manager for risk Consulting and Miss Michelle is it Capa Capa okay who is the CPA and supervisor for risk Consulting they represent the internal audit firm that oversees our internal Audits and so if they'll
004go ahead and come to the front ladies please no right here have a seat and they're going to be sharing the latest internal Audits and I will go ahead and say this which I've said before when there is an audit done such as like our Network penetration testing those audits are secure for safety purposes and are not sh shared openly with the public but they are shared with each of the school board members individually and with the audit committee um but they are not available for public so today's big one they'll be talking about will be the purchasing so I defer to you thank you and welcome thank you so much um my name is Michelle copel I'm a manager with RSM and we actually had a last minute switch and uh Laura was not
005able to make um our meeting today but I have with us uh Jennifer Mera who's a partner with our firm and her name is Jennifer mertha okay welcome Jennifer I should have realized Laura was not sitting there okay okay um so uh thank you madam chair the board and Dr balaman for having us here today um we are um happy to present the fiscal year 2023 internal audits um so these took place during the district's fiscal year 2023 and um we'd like to thank um Tod seiz and his staff he's been an amazing Le on for us and we really appreciate everything that they do for us um to help us through this process and we'd also like to thank all of the District staff that have helped us um through all of these engagements
006they've been extremely helpful um they have a lot of time and attention that they devote to us to help us out and we just really appreciate all their all that time and the partnership that they um have with us in order to make the district a better place um we' also like to acknowledge the audit committee um the board has chosen some really great audit committee members um they're very engaged they're very passionate about um the district district and they've just been really great to work with and we feel like they're very high functioning we are going to be talking about four different um engagements that we had for the fiscal year 2023 time frame um purchasing and procurement FY 23 followup and we have two Information Systems audits uh one for net Network penetration
007testing and data protection assessment for each of these we have um listed on here a generic uh objectives and approach that we uh follow for pretty much all of our engagements where we um our objective is to assess our system of internal controls at the district and within that our approach we have uh three phases and so our first phase is just getting an understanding of the process um we do that through um reviewing documentation that's provided by the district um team members that we're working with whether that's um procedures that are um provided to us or if it's regulations or policies um at the uh state level or at the board level and then also performing interviews and walkthroughs with staff phase two is evaluation of dis design and operating effectiveness of the process
008controls and this is where we actually get into the nitty-gritty of kind of testing the the process that the district has in place and then on our phase three is our reporting so we go through a pretty lengthy reporting process we want to make sure that um nobody at the district has any surprises and so we will vet all of our observations and um and and just our understanding with management with the superintendant before we present that to the audit committee we have listed here our um risk rating definitions um we have low moderate and high so the concept here is if it's a low item it's less risky for the district so it's a lower importance um whereas our high items are higher higher importance it's maybe more um action taken immediately because it's
009a higher risk to the district then I'm going to briefly go over our purchasing and procurement audit um throughout each of these observations I will the district uh team members have as they're creating their management action plans they um basically agreed with our recommendations as we are going through this and they're putting together that plan um as we speak in order to to um remediate these items so for number one we had a manual contract management the districts got a Antiquated system and very um manual processes in place and so um throughout their contract monitoring their spend monitoring and their contract approvals is all extremely manual process it's basically all paper based or the modules don't talk to each other so um so it's it's just a very risky area because you have the opportunity
010for a human error when you have a very um manual process our second item is uh vendor file management and within this we identified um some key controls were lacking um is it related to vendor validation if there was any vendor changes if the vendor had information that changed um throughout their lifespan as working with the district there just was a really wasn't a good system of control in place to validate is this the correct vendor that we're updating the information for and within that we found about 60% of our samples were missing um the vendor application form within the system um so the district has a good process in place in order to um document these um vendor changes and the vendor information so our recommendation is just to enforce the process that they
011have in place and um and and make sure that that is working for them um we also suggested a checklist maybe be put in place to identify when there's missing information on number three we have legal review of non-standard contracts um so purchasing and legal had worked to create a standard contract and as long as the vendor vendors are agreeing to that standard contract then it's already been reviewed by legal um however whenever a vendor would propose a non standard contract or perhaps if there was like a piggyback on another type of contract that review was not taking place through the legal process um just to make sure that there wasn't um additional risks potentially that the district was agreeing to by not reviewing those contract language on number four we have standard operating procedures
012um we see this at pretty much every District that we work with maybe even every client that we work with so um you know the district has good um policies and procedures in place around procurement but we were just looking for areas of enhancement within that and so we identified um that there was no current process documented around how to create a selection committee when there is a competitive solicitation that is taking place and we also identified where the purchasing policy 702 was not in alignment with the State Board of Education rule 6A on um number five we have centralized internal accounts procurement so as we were talking with the um management about the their oversight of procurement we identified that there's very minimal oversight of the internal funds at the school level from the
013purchasing standpoint so they do review single purchase items over $10,000 but that is it and so we were recommending that they have a more comprehensive review of purchase orders um that were going through the internal funds process and also that they um combine the vendor in commodity spend between the district funds and the internal funds so that they can determine if there's a need to go to the board for an approval on number six um we identified ever since um covid 2019 that the procurement team had not performed annual training to their sites on procurement um so we recommend that they uh put in place a site training for throughout the district at least on an annual basis um and then on number seven we have direct payments of contracted Services uh there are several
014payments that we identified that were direct pay and they really had no um no oversight by procurement um because it was through the direct pay invoicing process it wasn't going through a purchase order so we REM recommended that um the items that we identified through our audit go through a blanket purchase order process that way they're being reviewed by purchasing if legal needs to be contacted they could be and there's also a system of budget control for those and then our final number eight is file retention and storage uh we did identify as we were discussing our our audit with um the procurement group that there was uh like a non-standard practice in the way they were organizing their files um whether that was paper or electronic and so our recommendation is to create a
015more standard file architecture so they can easily find the information for audit trails and things like that any questions no thank you for that piece um Dr bman if it's okay I'd like to add at this point that since we went through this process for purchasing and everything because we've as I said we've already already held a meeting with the audit committee and each of you um Dr ball to go ahead and rearrange some of the Departments so that this would flow better so that we have like individuals from purchasing here today and we have individuals from finance and purchasing and finance are now working more closely aligned so that we can make sure that we have those safe guards in place and um at this time you can continue on with the follow-up piece
016which is another piece that as a committee we requested because what's the purpose of doing an internal audit and finding out you know where we can do something better or streamline it and then not following up to make sure that that was accomplished so thank you yes so moving on to our fiscal year 2003 followup um for uh the 2023 year we did review um four previous engagement ments that we had um design and construction maintenance department operations White Fleet Management and year in tax reporting and dispersements this was our second round um going through follow-up for these items and we were able to close out 10 additional items um from our observations we had a total of 26 when when it started from the initial audit round our first round we had been able
017to close out four and then our second round we were able to close out an additional 10 so we have 12 open observations that are still in progress with um the Departments and while I say that they're open it's not that they're not started so we have a lot of recommendations for each of those observations and so the management will be has been working through a lot of those and while while they could close out a portion of it um we don't close it out until the entire observation is closed out so for many of these 12 that are still in progress they could have done 90% of it um but we're still going to keep it open until it's completely 100% uh remediated and closed so a lot of progress made um during this
018past year and as a part of our um fiscal year 2024 um which we've already started we have had a kickoff this morning in fact for follow-up 24 so we are uh already in process moving forward with our next round of followup um we'll be touching on those 12 items and in addition we'll be incorporating a new report um for timekeeping into that thank you Mr colone has a question so what's the fire that's closest to us right now um I I think that uh from a standpoint of the district's had a a lot of turnover over the past couple of years and that has kind of slowed down some of the remediation that has taken place but under the direction of Dr balabin um we've noticed a significant in uh cleanup of all of
019that and we feel like the turnover has been much lower and uh the district has been able to move forward with a lot of these and I I think that the Erp system is a big part of that um as we were discussing with our team um this morning with the kickoff um that year system we feel like is going to be cleaning through a lot of these open items thanks so from a policy standpoint it sounds like we have some opportunities I know you mentioned some of our policies were not in alignment with the state so I'm curious to see how soon we can get those back to us and as we um sop because in and we had a lot of uh institutional knowledge that went over many many years that was in
020folks head and so as we start to uh create policies or or edit our policies to support uh the purchasing procurement Etc um I think it's important that we do that sooner rather than later that's just my two cents thank you Mrs Bernette thank you um Dr b um would you be willing to have somebody explain to us the and all of us um the changes that that you guys have implemented in order to reduce these especially high-risk areas and and I agree with you Mr colone I mean if we have policies in place it's not a certain person who knows it but it's that position who knows what they need to do and um make sure that those steps are followed yeah um Miss Kapa can you ask the uh CH cabinet members to
021join you because we have it in the in the um in the notes section what they have agreed in in terms of what we're doing but if you can ask tot where is he hiding from the side to can you come up under the table please and we will just have to pull it up at in that section so we can go over what what's been safeguards have been put in place thank you Miss Bernett for that question you can you can address purchasing and finance you're need to pull the mic closer excuse me thank you for the opportunity on board and Dr balamin yeah we'll start with um procurement first I'm purchasing closer pull it closer thank you that better yes okay yeah um as as M chair Haynes shared with you um when
022these initial um procurement already came out um there was a realignment then um purchasing fell under operations and then I took this over um since then um there was some staffing changes too that we had at the director level as you know currently um the new director will start in March here but we um I hired to help us um um Cheryl Olsen's firm Civic initiatives Cheryl's Olsen's firm has um procurement A through Z covered worked with these Auditors in the past to help and assist at cleaning up some of these audit findings that uh we identified in the um procurement area so what we've actually done policy was the big one right away um Cheryl actually her that was the first thing we met on is this um audit and we um we identified
023some things are audit compliance with the policy we're currently working on that right now her and I to uh mitigate that and we'll be bringing that forward for uh legals review okay that's the first one on the on the manual contract track management yes there's a very there's many manual processes unfortunately and it's because um of um the current Erp but we're look we're we're looking forward to the new Erp um being put in place but we also identified some interesting um things as we're exploring how we're doing things here um and one of those is that we can actually leverage some other software that has been used by other schools school districts across the state um with we're already using it and the construction side we're just not fully implemented and using that on
024the procurement side that would be one of those programs called vendor vendorlink it actually manages your procurement RFP life cycle for you and allows you to store contracts and stuff out there so we feel by utilizing that functionality a little bit better or actually um um um actually save us some um eliminate some of these manual proc processes and have a record retainage place for us to store this information for all the public to go out and look at and pull up yes we have a lot of manual processes but we're working on that um we're and again we're hoping that the new Erp will actually mitigate that for file management um um we also looked at that to it was just really the coordination um who is in charge of um the the vendor
025management file so what was shared with you too is when you brought procurement back to finance it allows us to work closer together so how are we making sure that we have the separation of Duties um in place to make sure that we're fully accounting for so one um the procurement would be um vetting and setting up the vendors and finance then would be securing and making payments to those vendors so the file management piece I believe yes that um we we since have worked on that with the team and we met with the finance director and Cheryl's helping with with the team here um to redefine what the procedures are in the flow of information the the legal review we also of non-standard contracts we also realized too that every buyer was going directly
026illegal for them to look at their contracts I'm I'm not used to that um I'm used to having a standard contract in the district that we work under and that's already vetted by legal and if there's um and we would all use that that would be our template contract to use going forward and if there's any modification we need to make to that of course we would vet that against legal department department but right now for most of the stuff that we do we can just use a standard operating contract and it would it would save a little bit of um um time there as well standard operating procedures we also identified some issues with the um um as Cheryl's firm and I were looking through this with the operating procedures there was there was
027a you were in a line between our internal school account activity procedures in the departmental and general fund um side of it um procedures so that we needed to we're working on cleaning that up right now so we are making a lot of progress and really I really have to um thank Cheryl Olsen's firm and helping me through that the procurement training that was a f another thing we identified right away um we since have um identified a firm that's going to help us or an organization and we signed up the team to take some classes with them that we feel that would be beneficial and help with their professional development direct payments of contracted Services one of those things that we run into so for some of these services so for like legal legal
028would um come down and for we have to um hire the specific attorney we don't know ahead of time how much sometimes this stuff is going to cost so when we get the bill in we do a direct pay we don't actually issue a purchase order another another one of those things we don't issue a purchase order for like utilities for example we use the budgetary line to do that this was through this comment here they were just looking to say well we should really be using per more purchase orders more frequently so we are exploring and making sure that we identify those particular vendors where we must have a po po first in instead of doing a direct payment bile retention and storage so one of those things we also identify too is how
029we we're keeping and storing our data in the procurement area so we're Cheryl's actually helping me in going through our file structure and making sure that we realign our realign our file structure so all the buyers have a centralized repository where all the information's going to be stored and housed and then it would be able to be easy accessed and also updated as needed and that's it for the procurement any questions on that Mr persus thank you madam chair um thank you Mr CE uh could you explain a little bit about the item that was brought up the selection committee process the the selection Comm um would that be I think it's in the fiscal year 23 update correct let me let me get to that page just to and Dr can provide some additional
030insights on that as well Dr are you referring to the selection committee as is established through an RFP process or you talking about the selection process through for an Erp that we're implementing I'm not sure okay okay I'm trying to I to make sure I answer but all those acronyms sound really good so or procurement or both okay so let me talk through the procurement process first okay um yeah so what um there's there's a couple things that are going on right now and one of those things that was also identified that we have it's a decentralized procurement process and it and it and it does work to a degree we just need it more over site from the procurement director overseeing like facilities and how they do an RFP so we're actually I just
031met again with um um um the Chief Operating Officer um Patty core and also Ron young the director there to establish um a procedure that we're going to create now and then we'll be following on the on the purchasing side along with the procurement process on the facility side so we have we make sure that we have oversight of that process so a procurement life cycle for example would be if we go out for an RFP of course is this is a service that we would actually um utilize yes we would ask um to go out um to um forbid on this process and um we would actually going to after going out for the bid process then of course we would we would um issue that and and I'm probably being a little bit
032too more detailed than I should because I'm not really sure where where you're going with this question but I might want to make sure I answer it so a after we um go off a bid process then what it's what it does is the um people will this bid back you know solicitors will um um respond back to that solicitation and then what we do is we then meet we have a selection committee team of um experts that that area so for example if we're going out for I'll just use an Erp for example you had Dr you had um Mr West myself you had all the Chiefs sitting in that Erp um Review Committee that was form to oversee and and actually um listen to all the proposals that were coming in and we
033would actually rank who we thought would be the best product for the school district and then um after that process then of course the final negotiation with the vendor on the on the best price offer and then we' bring it back to the board for for their approval I I don't know if I left anything out there but did I answer your question I want to make sure I I understand and I wasn't uh I wasn't very clear with my question so when for instance the example that you just used uh um yeah was the audit comment that we don't have a formalized SE selection committee process like we should have it in there for for whatever the the item is that this committee is going to decide that there's a process that says that
034Dr will be be there and you'll be there and or in other words we just can't create a committee out of the blue corre say okay I think I need you you you and you Jennifer did you want to um um highlight that one for usich typically we like to have something written down in the policies and procedures about how it's established but all proposals and committees are different we like to see someone on finance we like to see the the expert and the buyer and it needs to be have some level of Independence so for example if I find myself on a committee for a selection and a proposal comes in and it's my brother-in-law right there should be processes policies and procedures that say I should excuse myself from being on that committee
035even if I am one of the folks that need to be in there so it creates a lot of clarity in the selection process and it also helps if there's appeals to say this is why this is the committee who made the selection because here's our policy and you know the district is not alone with the challenges that they're facing technology and turnover with people institutional knowledge is probably something that all of your peer districts are are facing and it's it's a it's a challenge throughout the state in throughout the country do we do we think Michelle that is it related to more of a procedural thing that you were identifying to the audit process that we weren't um identifying those key players that should be on the selection committee okay yeah we just want
036you need to speak into we really wanted to see the diversity of team members we didn't want necessarily like um all one Department to make the decision you know so like Jennifer had mentioned if you have somebody that maybe isn't appropriate or um if you have too many people that are um don't have like a an outside perspective to kind of be like oh well gee just because in this the same um vendor time over time you know are they really providing you the best um value okay so that's the that's the committee that decides which which vendor to to use then is there a committee that decides which vendors can pre-qualify and should be on our list who who determines that yeah we go through a pre-qualification checklist so they have to meet certain
037um criteria in order to be um um participate so for example um if it's a construction firm let's just do that um what we normally of course do they have the ability to perform the tasks that we're requesting do they have the financial means to actually perform that task that we're requesting and um yes they're vetted through a process of course they have to be um um um not debarred of course um organization um and um just long as they meet certain requirements to and we feel that they um meet those qualifications and um they have the financial means to do that and most of them put up a bond so that's what I really look for when I'm vetting these to so if they're putting up a bond then I I typically don't worry
038about it because the bond holder is actually vetting that company as well because if they don't perform then I know I'm going to get my money so um um um yes so yes there is a betting process do do you do you know offand what what's the threshold that it has to be over before we then need to go out on a bid and in other words when it's under a certain amount we can just choose a vendor from those that are pre-qualified actually um if you would allow me I'm going to actually bring our expert up here and I'm I'm I'm grateful to have her um Miss Cheryl Olen if you could help me out here I'd appreciate it afternoon good afternoon so your pre-qualification packets that are put together are for those contractors
039to be allowed to bid or quote on District business so our district threshold for competitive solicitations is $50,000 so anything over $50,000 is going to require a formal competitive solicitation approved by the school board so my question would be those bids that um that work that's going to come in under 50,000 how do you go about selecting from the vendors who have pre-qualified so for those vendors everything except for um construction management at risk anything less than 20,000 is fre written quotes anything less than 10,000 is one quote and everything 20,000 and less than 50 is three written quotes from the purchasing department the purchasing department would obtain the quotes and only from those people who have pre pre-qualified and then is at your practice that you would take the lowest bid or the best
040bid I mean I I know I know the lowest bid is not always the best so with your construction and Ron and Tom you're in the audience as well so we have continuing Services contracts in place for most of the trades The Architects and the construction managers and so if it's less a project less than four million we would pick Services contracts because those have already been through your selection committee and the board has already approved them and their fee schedules to utilize for guaranteed maximum price than thank you madam chair for letting me go on a little bit and the reason why I um I am is because I know I'm not the only one here that uh may have heard from a vendor let's say that says hey I'm pre-qualified I never get
041any work you know the works always going into ABC company and not my XYZ company or or we get the the email from I try to prequalify I don't know why I'm not on the list you know what's going on so right the pre-qualification process is is governed by Statute and srf and some of our governing policies that we have to follow so it mainly is just that phase one to make sure that they are capable and they have the financial resources and they that our first checklist then when we go into deciding who is qualified through that RFQ process um they can't bid against each other so pricing is not a factor at that point you have to negotiate with your top ranked firm so even when we have our continuing Services contractors that
042are in place other so company and negoti price within budget they will need to go to Goa and unless we do a hard bid and then we would do all the specs and the plans would all be there and of responsible bidder in that case yeah you have been very educational I appreciate it more than you ever want to know about purchasing right and do you create a a a new list every year is it an annual to get on the uh so I'm gonna let's see right now your request for qualifications are within the last year so we have yeah some renewals and some ads because we can add throughout the year and they have to be pre-qualified in over in order to submit a proposal gotcha or the for the projects that are
043four million and over and they're all on their last year so next year thank you thank you madam chair I'd like to add to that um only because of my background with Federal programs and the federal and state laws there that you can't you can't break up a proposal into parts to keep it from coming forward to have approval um so that's another thing that they're watching so you can't say okay well if I you know I really want to spend $200,000 with this company say on instructional materials but I don't want to have to jump through all of these these hoops to get it approved I'll make it smaller right so people in the p and the one point I wanted to make was even when you look up at the look at the
044follow-up slide you realize during this last round they closed 10 of those items okay so they had only closed four items prior to that so that was part of why the community members that you guys have you know either selected or said you want them to continue on this internal audit committee it was a unan animous vote um that we bring this followup piece in so that we can as I said the internal you know what they present us with the internal audit is only as good as do we take it and change what we're doing and make it better or correct areas that they find and so I would just encourage all of you at any point in time not to ever drop that piece okay like that follow-up piece needs to stay in
045there each year so that going and circling back to what's been done until all of those items are closed and we are now you know moving forward in a way that our areas are green no longer yellow and red but Mrs Bernett thank you I have three questions statements um first the um when we do ask for bids we seek we frequently and and actually not like we used to but we'll see change orders and so when we see change orders that are for increased payment and I know we've gone through some you know environmental changes with what's available and finances that out in the the real world but do is there a process that we look and say okay company XYZ is always giving us change orders for increase do we have something in
046that to to measure that QA kind of measurement we have Ron yeah typically Ron would be able to answer that question for us um or Tom but can we answer from what our experience is has been you got it I just don't want to overstep my bounds sorry okay so with change orders I believe that your project managers in your leadership with planning and construction is very well aware of change orders and they're trying to keep them at a minimum and when you have a construction management at risk contract and all of those line items are Bid out to all all the subs and that's how you end up with your guaranteed maximum price you're going to pretty much stay within that guaranteed maximum price unless you have unforeseen circumstances if you're building something new
047or you're adding on to something you're going to have unforeseen circumstances which of course you can't see everything when you're first doing that site visit so I think that the board has good policies in place regarding change orders and the fact that you do see them or you are notified of them after at the next meeting meeting depending on the dollar amount so I think at this point you have good procedures in place to catch that and I'm sure that planning and construction are doing performance reviews and Lessons Learned at the end of each of their contracts and I I think that's more what I'm talking about is the performance review piece of that so where you know that same company is not always coming in if we are going to go for the lower
048bid and then they're constantly giving us increases because that's kind of a game that could be being played um so then my next question you had mentioned anything under um 10,000 doesn't require just it only requires the one bid so what is the reassurance that it's not always going to the same company who's picking that how how are we making sure that that you know our friend isn't getting that job all the time part of the purchasing procedures manual is that when the requisition comes through for district funds right now because we're not seeing internal account less than 10,000 but for anything that's less than 10 the buyer that is assigned those Commodities or Services is looking at the venders and they're ensuring that it's a reasonable price if not we have the responsibility to
049reach out to our other vendors to make sure that we're getting the best price for the district and so I get that but how are we assuring that we're not giving this the the business to one person all the time so we run spend analysis on a regular basis so if one company is getting so much business they're going to start approaching the competitive bid threshold and that's when we would put a districtwide bid in place okay all right thank you um and then um let's see my last question would be for more direct uh more in the line of the direct payment and I understand there's a process in place now about the direct payment but who who oversees so if we were to purchase something and the invoice came in who actually goes
050in overseas that the work was really done and we do owe this amount on the invoice like where's the accountability for actually the work coming to us before we pay it it's it's the um whoever's um it would be the issuer of okay it's the issue of the purchase order so that department and what it is is normally the bookkeeper keys in the requisition which turns into a purchase order and what they do is if there's a product coming in for example a supply they have there's a receiving function that they have to do that said yes we received this and um but for those larger things like has the service actually been performed it's up to the individual that secured those services to verify that their service has been done either through I'll use
051a good example here is like a a time sheet of all the time that they've actually worked for the district um in fact I'm going through that right now with um miss miss olssen here so when because we know I know every time that she's come in here and assist the school district so she keeps a time sheet of that so that's how we I vet whether or not and I I bounce that against hourly rate that we agreed upon and then then and then that's how I verify it so I guess um we're just verifying that accounting doesn't automatically pay the invoice or somebody does overse no we have you need you need a receiver in order to do that first correct thank you and I'd like to piggy back off a part of
052what you said at the beginning part about the change orders so I do know that um between 2014 and 2018 and Mr persus was on the board at that time uh we changed a lot of the policies about change orders because change orders weren't coming before the board and they were very large amounts that were just being approved you know by a department person and so part of why we see so many change orders Now versus then is so that the board is aware and we there are strong policies about those change orders and what because because I'm with Mrs Bernette you know just because you take the person that has the lowest bid you know they come in at a 100,000 but then when it's all said and done they cost us 300,000 well
053we could have taken you know maybe even the top bid person who said we'll do it for two and they would have done it for two and so that is a way of catching what's happening out there we do have policies in place for that and I do appreciate the group of board members at that were seated during that 2014 to 2018 time for tackling that because they saw that it was an issue because the the change orders are coming to us so that we understand and can see what's happening and approve the change order and so there's a lot more clarity and um a lot more transparency with what's happening now so any other questions about this section okay then I know we have just a little part to continue on for the information
054technology internal audit pieces thank you thank you so our our last section here has to do with the information technology internal audits um you know we performed internal external penetration testing um to determine you know what kind of vulnerabilities there might be for the district as far as um cyber attacks we have ethical ha hackers that perform that um and then we have a data protection um in engagement in which we assess the uh processes and the controls around your data security both of these are um covered as a confidential um information that should not be disclosed publicly so um so we're not going to go into any more detail as far as um any results of these audits but all of our observations and recommendations have been shared with your District management and Dr
055has been working to um create action plans for those items and you are doing follow-ups on those also right we do regular testing um it's it's more of a full scope kind of followup so generally about every three years we'll come in and do that type of testing again any questions for Dr Dr the fishing emails have been working hard this week I I'd like to encourage everyone that if you get an email and it appears it's coming from a board member or even a District staff member look at what the email address is before you think about because I've been hit I mean I've got people getting emails saying they're from Jamie Haynes with some weird you know whatever email address attached to them uh we love the fact that right around paytime these
056um we get a lot more of them trying to say that you know Jamie Haynes is asking to have her bank account information changed so we we got to watch that okay so but we appreciate all of this are there any further questions at all for in yes um I just wanted to express my appreciation for the RSM audit results it it was a number of months ago was at the end of last school year but we're just about to move into an AG audit from the state in a couple of months and so we've been using these results as well as our last AG audit results to become prepared for that audit that is pending so uh we're feeling very good about those preparations and uh RSM is a big part of that we
057like hearing that we like hearing that this is helping so thank you and and you and your entire ire team do a fabulous job and we appreciate how you take the time and you bring in the experts to for each of the areas that we do so that it's someone that actually understands that area and um get great information from you and Dr baman we appreciate how the dist you and the District staff are taking all of this information and working towards you know streamlining it or putting things in place so that we will We we'll be in the green one day and then somebody will come up with another thing that we'll have to uh figure out but thank you for being here today all right at this time we're going to move on
058to item 3.01 which is a social studies textbook adoption and training update and so for this oh they're already coming we have Dr just go ahead Dr B will you please ince uce them Dr Desiree rabinsky she's our coordinator for instruction materials and Media Services and Mr Robert milal milholland he's our coordinator for advanced programs and social studies as you know next year we will have new standards for civics and social studies so Robert and um Des re has been working really hard obtaining input of our community and part of that selection process and they're here to detail for you some of the uh um the format but also where we are in the adoption process in terms of recommendations good afternoon chairman chairwoman Haynes superintendent Babin and board members um as you know we
059are going through the process for the Social Studies textbook adoption we started earlier this year and everything is governed basically by Florida statute and and board policy um and in terms of of approving and procuring those textbooks uh we do we do utilize the approved textbook list from from doe um and and those are aligned to current courses and current course standards the revised uh K through 12 Civics and government standards that Dr balabin mentioned earlier uh they are implemented and and those textbooks do reflect those those revisions by Doe um here in bla County as we have talked about this whole process um really since the beginning of the year uh we do we do here in vucha County form committees and those are teacher committees with parent input and that is part of
060part of Statute um and each committee they reach a consensus on on the textbook that that committee wants to um wants to recommend for us to bring to the board so where are we in the process right now we're in stage four which uh which is the school board approval we have several different Publishers at different grade levels for K through five um we have one publisher galip that we are bringing to the board uh this evening for for your approval so we can move forward with that and then the other public will be at the the uh February 27 board meeting and then the following board meeting um is another possibility for that and then oh sorry and then after your approval um there is another 30-day waiting period for the for additional public
061objection before we can actually make the purchase um and during that 30 days the public is invited to to to review the materials and make any any final objections before the purchase is actually made and then after that 30 days uh then we can move into the actual purchase with the contract with with the publisher so what are we bringing to you this evening uh during the board meeting for approval is the K5 social studies which that publisher has gallopade and also the Middle School Civics which uh that publisher is galloped as well um that that uh all of the the documentation for that purchase is already prepared so those those uh purchases and approvals are coming coming before you today uh later this evening and then um the rest of them are are spaced
062out to the SE to the February 27 board meeting and all of the contracts and the Agreements are generated um with those recommended Publishers so they go through that process as as you might recall part of that that documentation includes the the new requirement by by Statute and by Doe for the student data privacy agreement and and that's to to ensure that student data is is held by the publisher it's not sold or anything like that those Agreements are in place or they are in the process of being in place and that's why we have the the remainder of the publisher Set for February 27th and then we go through um a April through June of 24 um that's when we actually complete the purchase after that 30-day waiting period for public objection and and
063then the delivery of those materials to the schools prior to the school year beginning and we also have developed professional learning plans generated along with the publishers and and my staff um to ensure that that all of our teachers are well prepared with the with the textbooks and the online availability of those textbooks so spring of 2024 this year um we are also revising our Curriculum maps for K through 12 social studies because we have to not only realign them with with the newly revised Civics and government standards but we also have to to align them with the new textbooks once once that purchase agreement has has been completed um and we also developed the resources in alignment with with the standards and benchmarks and with the new with the new textbooks and then um
064in May in may we are anticipating that our teachers will have online access to the those instructional materials for those textbooks so that they can get a look at them before they go away for before they go away for the summer and and also um they'll we have agree we'll have agreements with those Publishers to provide professional learning with within valua learns um also we have our curriculum kickoff at the beginning of the year during pre-planning in which um will those Publishers will be returning to work with those teachers that were not able to get to valua learns and then uh and then and my staff and I will be available for for other professional learning as as we go throughout the school year next year does anybody have any questions so far thank you
065I just had a question looking at this and I know that we're going through all the different subjects over the next next couple of years do we have a guesstimate on how long we'll be keeping these specific books because what I hear from teachers is that repeatedly they get this turnover and they find system they like or don't like and then they turn around they have to learn something new and it's just exhausting and I get that so do we have a time frame for how long we'll keep these once they're approved if they're approved so the state adoption cycle for any any given textbook is five years so we are currently actually in an extension or a gap year for social studies so this it is already expired the like the state contract for
066that and so we are actually beyond the five but the the state calls for bids every five years for instructional materials and we have three years after that um call for bids to purchase adopt and purchase as a district so every five years is when that comes up so that we have new and current materials and then we have a little bit of a wiggle room um for us to to be able to review those materials and get them out to schools thank you so much and I just wanted to point out I know Mr milholland said it but tonight um the new uh Florida statute indicates that the purchase of new instructional materials um at the initial adoption has to be an action item so every contract every publisher um for for this so
067we have five different Publishers tonight there will only be one but they have to be an action item um although consent agenda allows for public input we are required and it specifically says in the statute it may not be on the consent agenda so just so everyone is aware and this is really the first cycle where that has happened so it it's different but just so everyone knows that that's the reason why Mr persus thank you madam chair uh I feel like I've said this a few times so bear with me Mr milholland uh you know I'm passionate about our local history what resources can we provide so that teachers can teach our children about our local history so in terms of of local history there there really is nothing with in the with any
068of the course benchmarks and standards that designate specifically local history but we do include that within within our Curriculum maps so as we go through and revise our Curriculum maps we look at at other organizations that are local like the Halifax um um historical society and things like that Jackie Robinson stadium and and and whatnot so that we can incorporate those within within those those benchmarks and within the curriculum map itself yeah and it it is uh is it targeted towards a certain grade or you just kind of Branch out not tell me how you typically in in Elementary School fourth grade is considered Florida history so it would definitely be an in part of that um and at the high school level uh for US history for example there is a a recurring Benchmark
069that indicates you know whatever whatever the the content is um nationally how does that also apply to Florida so we can we can incorporate it at the high school level within us history as well and then um other other subject areas we can we take a look at at the benchmarks and standards and see where we can where we can Implement those kind of that kind of instruction just one U final question there about uh what was the company gallopade is that how you pronounce it um what and not just galapa but all of them what have you seen U new and exciting in regard to the the technology that will be available for the students and the teachers can yeah when one of the things that that we've learned in social studies because I
070think we were one of the earliest ones to implement the online access um years ago when we went through Tech our textbook adoption about seven years ago was was how quickly the Publishers can update the information online and make that available to students and a lot of the Publishers especially like galip that we we've discovered have been very responsive to to teacher requests you know about things that they can include for engagement and and and instructional strategies as well yeah I I think it's one of the most exciting things you know how we were always in um bored out of our minds generally in school when it was history time because you just read out of a book and you just read and you read read and then then one time in your life you
071whether in college or some some teacher made history come alive and it was like that teacher that you'd swear that she knew um Thomas Jefferson personally you know or they just they just make it so exciting that you just want to learn more and more and more so but now now U when you're reading let's say there's a link and and that teacher just clicks on that link and Kaboom on the screen you start seeing an enactment of that particular scene and it's just it just makes all the difference in the world and I just hope uh that our teachers are using that resource I just wanted to add that as part of our committee process we also in um involveed the instructional technology team so Dr Coon's team does a thorough technology vetting prior
072to us even meeting with the committee to make sure that it meets first of all our our basic District um guidelines because there are State guidelines in order for them to be on the state list they have to meet those but our district also has additional requirements um that make it accessible in our system and they ask all kinds of technical questions and I do sit in on all of those but you know list but they really we I've heard feedback from the Publishers and vendors that we have one of um the most stringent technology conversations with them that they have across um Florida so we have high expectations um which makes for better quality um materials and also for better implementation because they they know what we need um and as part of that
073um we have our Fiddler's partner who reviews all the student materials for um univ Universal Design for Learning so making sure that there is accessibility for those resources um and Braille and audio and that all of the things that need to be accessible everything that's up up toate and the latest that's available that these products aren't aren't aren't depending on external tools that we have to buy or that our district has but that are within the digital platform so that really makes a big difference for our students all of our students not just students with disabilities or elll students but for all students to have access to those tools to use for um accessing their instructional materials that's great that's awesome thank you okay so moving on to advanced placement textbooks for social studies this
074is a separate adoption um because because programs like advanced placement Cambridge Ace and the and the IB or International Balor these are specific programs that do not fall under uh under the the Doe's approval process in terms of textbooks the courses are approved but the the textbooks are under the offices of those organizations themselves and we are going through the advanced placement um social St textbook adoption so we are we've already made the call out to the Publishers and we are convening the the teacher and parent committees this week um on Thursday and they're going to be coming in taking a look at a variety of different textbooks for AP social studies textbooks everything from AP World History and Human Geography to AP macro and microeconomics um anything that's related to social s the really
075good thing about this is the textbooks that we have for advanced placement uh in social sites many of them are 12 years old or older um because you know it's it's just the nature the nature of of how AP works and also with the funding as well uh so those committees were just starting that process for for the AP social studies courses and then we'll be go following basically the same process that we did with the regular with the regular textbooks as well Mr clone so with the AP not being approved by the state and having its own body of approval H how do we ensure that we don't go buy these books and tomorrow they decide they want to get rid of AP in the State of Florida and we're now stuck with a
076bunch of books that are no good well we don't have control over the courses that um the state is going to take off the list but currently there's not any conversation um we know that can change at any time but um I know Mr milhollen you know specifically for social studies what is on top of those things you know when we hear Rumblings we try to take action or or hold back on action you know to make sure that those types of things um don't happen but we are taking the lists that are provided um and AP does they call them just a list it's not recommended it's not approved it's just ones that are being used by other AP courses and that meet the content so they're on the College Board website and so
077we have a call for Publishers and so we'll take that list and we'll compare those two lists together and then the committee will review those for alignment to the course content um and all and those pieces that that go along with the the AP syllabus for each course so the course is approved by FLD dooe however the materials are sort of a free-for-all because I I will share with you I'm still waiting for a response from Chancellor Oliva after all the drama with all the books saying what are we going to do with Cambridge Ace and those courses and I'm still waiting for that response mind you he's in Arkansas now uh but there is no response and I think um it's important for folks to realize that is that these folks dance to the
078beat of Their Own Drum and they could truly uh care less what Florida thinks and we are not provided guidance and so we're going to make the best decision that we can based on our standards and our coursework to ensure that the materials that we purchase align with that however it is not regulated decided other than they approve the course and you know again I know the state is very well aware of this I'm still waiting for an answer because they never came and our our responsibility to that is to make sure that we are choosing the materials that align so that's that is why we're convening the Committees and that will be the process moving forward with all so right now we're doing social studies because that's the current adoption cycle so we'll continue
079to move that forward so next year we'll do the same cycle with science so we will do the same process for the AP science courses so that we are taking a deep look right now there's not consistency across schools about the materials that are being used and so the purpose of this is to help um maintain some consistency create some consistency um and know that those materials have been reviewed um and vetted by the teachers and parents on that committee as well as um Mr mil Holland's team so the teachers and parents who are on this committee are they specifically directly connected to IB these are so for AP so we're just AP we haven't IP and IP and Ace are different um and we can address that as well but for AP these are
080the teachers so we recruited they're the ones that are using just like we do for the other textbooks we have solicited them to join the committee to give feedback because they're the ones who know the standards and the content the best and then um we solicited for parents who have high schoolers um or are going to have high schoolers next year to be a part of that committee to provide input so they are not in any way that we know of um connected to that other than having a child in the course which is part of the state requirement so basically these are parents of AP students who directly impact very good that's a good thing thank you so and I just you brought up IB and we can leave that one okay good all
081right Miss Thompson yes so following up on what Mr cologne said since I'm assuming there is no such thing as textbook insurance which would be nice in this case do we have the opportunity to read through the books or if they narrow it down to a handful can we have the opportunity to read through them before we vote on that absolutely because it's going to follow the same process so we will the committee will make a recommendation um we will share that recommendation with you all at another presentation and then we'll have public um input for that as well just for them to review and then we will bring it for um forward for approval as well all right thank you thank you yeah absolutely I want to thank both of you but I also
082want to thank all of the teachers and parents that served on the Committees to select the part that we're going forward with right now uh for the social studies um from elementary through High School minus the special classes um I want to encourage once again though you know each year when a subject area is brought up for adoption it's a long lengthy process and the part that kind of is disheartening is that when we get to the section where it says school and public input we get the school input piece because teachers take time to look at the materials and fill out a form and give you their opinion on what they think would work best or you know the one they find to align the best with the standards but the public input is
083poor each year and so you know what I find interesting is we give them an entire opportunity to provide public input before it even be comes to the school board for approval but then we have to wait another 30 days after we make the approval where you've already done months months of meetings and people pouring through the curriculum and being able to you know ask questions or say I you know I don't like this one because of this or I feel this one is strong we still have to wait another 30 days for an objection period um if in the event somebody wants to object to what you know after all this work you've come up with so for anyone you know that will watch this later or is listening at home come out and
084give your public input prior to it getting to the point before it becomes for board approval like take the time but what I know in past history is it's just a handful of people I mean it you know if you get 10 people and we have we have over a half a million people that live in Valia County and so if you can't I really don't want to hear from you after they've done all the work and we've done the board approval you need to be a part of the process upfront and we are trying to make sure in that beginning process that we have both iners and the materials are online to view they're online now they've been online since the recommendation has Ma has been made so all of those materials are available
085for public viewing still so after tonight galip will be on its 30-day um objection period And then after the other other ones are on then we'll start those 30 days as well but thank you for encouraging the public to give their input thank you and thank you for all the work that you and all of the teachers and staff and and the parents that have stepped up to do this I want to thank all of them because it it it's not it's one more job do you know what I'm saying that people choose to take take on um to ensure that this process runs smoothly so thank you all right at this time we're going have something I'm sorry I'm sorry that's all right thank you I I snuck in but um when you brought
086up the topic of making sure the public was involved I just want to say that at the last meeting for resoning at ter T there was some um input on that resoning and we could take that information and use it here and so miss core probably has um some of that documentation and there was some um talk about you know reaching out to the church the local churches um there was some other there was some local um radio stations so not that I want us to start doing that but if we're going to say we've reached every corner of every person could we do that in this next 30 days to get that information out to the public so that we can say we have done 150% to get involvement and and you can't make
087people come drink the water but you can always bring the bottle to them and give it to them right so I just want to make sure that we've given as much opportunity for anyone to have a comment and if they don't make it then then we can't do much more correct I don't know that's correct all right thank you any other questions all right then at this time we're going to take a short recess and we'll be back in here for the final item 3.01 I mean 4.01 which will be school board policy 320 we will come back in at 2:15 e welcome back back at this time it is 2:15 p.m. and we are moving on to the third item on our school Workshop which is Schoolboard policy 320 IM media selection of print
088and non-print materials Dr balabin thank you madam chair and board members I would like to ask at this time that Mr Kevin pendley our general counsel along with Dr Rachel Hazel our Deputy superintendent for um operations along with Desiree rabinsky our coordinator for instruction materials and Media Services they will share with you a short presentation and be open for a discussion on Schoolboard policy 320 which is Media selection and print and non-print materials welcome thank you good afternoon chairwoman Haynes and board members we have prepared for you a short presentation that is simply gives information regarding our current policy and um a little legislation and then Mr penley is prepared with State Statute as well all right good afternoon so I just put together a few highlights um I know the question has come up
089about whether or not our current policy um 320 is in alignment with statute so I just pulled a few pieces of that out to um elaborate on that and then Mr penley will proceed with the rest of the statute so this is the main section of Florida statute 1000 6.28 um that requires the school board to adopt a policy um regarding an objection by a parent or resident so I'm just going to break this specific piece down and talk about how we are currently in compliance with that based on what we're doing procedurally and in policy this is the second portion or uh the continuation of one 6.28 and this specifically outlines the four reasons or for ways that a um specific material could violate the Florida statute so those being just in summary um
090they have pornographic content or are prohibited under 847.011 they have sexual conduct they're not suited to the needs of students or they're inappropriate for the grade level so in policy 320 there are five sections and the section that we're I'm just going to highlight is the challenged materials section for your information so this is the next couple of slides just lay out how the what does it say in the Florida statute those few previous slides that I just showed you and how are we complying with that according to what's in policy and the procedures that we currently have in place so that first section that we are required by um policy or by um statute to have Schoolboard policy that that indicates how those procedures for challenge materials will be handled and that is outlined
091in section five of policy 320 also part of that statute is that we are required to post on our web page on the homepage the Florida um it came from out of uh stateboard rule the specific objection to material and this is just a snapshot of our District page web page and at the bottom of that page there is a link to that material also as a part of that form were required to indicate who the district contact is for um any objections or of to materials and so that information is provided as well on that form in regards to challenge procedures this is an area um this is somewhat of a gray area that we've had a lot of questions about so I wanted to make make sure that it's clear um how we're
092proceeding with this procedurally as a district so when someone makes a complaint um or an objection to a material that can be through email through phone call through the objection form but once that objection is made if it's not made directly to the principal if it's made through um District staff or another way then we route that to the principal but that objection um starts the process if that objection is for pornography those first two sections on the slide the pornography or for sexual conduct we are required by State Statute to remove that within 5 days um and then from there determine whether or not it violates the statute but even if it's not on the objection form it's an informal objection and we are required to act on that objection um until we have
093resolved it that's right can you pause for is there a reason why the presentation's not being I don't know shown okay I have a question do you need me to go back or I can go back no yes would you please go back because it disappeared and that part was not being shown sure which part did sorry I'm it's on mine and so I wasn't looking over there this this section here yes so this is just to highlight that piece of that an objection can be made in in more than one way we do have the state objection form which is posted but it is not required to make an objection um that comes into play and is required if um there's not a resolution with the principal and it would be um taken to
094a school committee okay Mr colone has a question so the state approved the form or the objection process yet they can call or send an email so that starts the official objection process yes so but there are also informal objections that we're required to act on so that is why we direct the complainant directly to the principal in hopes that that um objection will be resolved at that level Would we not encourage or direct them to that form or someone who can help them fill out that form and the reason I say that is someone can say well I let the principal know and the principal can say well you mentioned it but I didn't understand what you were trying to say about the book and so that leaves Room For Gray versus if we
095direct like for example variances yes we get emails on variances but what do we do we send them to that variance form in the parent portal to get so I I'm a little concerned with something as simple as a phone call or even an email that can get lost in translation versus having a standard process of directing them to that form or someone who can help them fill out that form and I believe both things are important you may have someone who's elderly who wants to but is not can't get into focus and so maybe we help them with that but you know the thought like I said of somebody talking to a principal and saying well I told the principal now we're going to be out outside of our process and we can't even
096validate that an objection was actually made so just something to think about just the there is so there is required documentation for the conference with the principal there is a form um that principles have for that conference but in currently in the policy um there is not a requirement for the objection form until that until it goes to a school level committee which would mean that the complaintant disagrees with the decision that was made during the conference with the principal gotcha thank you it's similar to where we are with public records right now I I never thought someone could request public records anonymously they can but they can and until such time that if it's required that they have to pay um they don't have to identify who they are to get those public public
097records and this is just a a summary or a visual of what we currently have in policy so there's an objection made that objection is routed to the school because the the um both statute and policy dictate that it is the first step is for the principal to have a discussion or conference with the complainant about whatever the spec the specific material is that's being objected to it's at that point that if there is not an agreement or an understanding of what's going to happen next if the complaintant still um they may appeal that by requesting with that specific objection form for um a school committee to review that and those all of those um guidelines are outlined in the policy if at that time the school committee convenes and the the um result of
098that committee recommendation is not um to the liking of the complainant then that complainant may make an appeal to the superintendent and it as is at the superintendent's discretion whether or not to appoint a district committee to um review those materials as well after that committee makes a decision and reports that information if there is still um if the complainant is still not satisfied with the result then that would come to the school board for review and then at that time that is where the policy currently ends for the local decision making on um a specific material objection however in statute the magistrate is the last step so anything that would go beyond the Schoolboard review would be sent to the magistrate and if I think Mr penley is going to share some more information
099thank you madam chair board members um I think what Dr rinsky is related is the appropriate statute to reference section 106 28a of the Florida Statutes we have been through it several times in terms of what the legislature changed with House Bill 1069 in the last legislative session um but um the only thing I would add there is the change in language to allow for a uh an appeal of the board's decision to a special magistrate appointed by the commissioner of education and referral to the State Board of Education in subsection A6 of 10628 um so our current policy 320 includes language there in uh paragraph section five paragraph e that says that the school board's decision is final and not subject to further petition or review that language is currently in the statute but
100it relates to uh specific instructional material adoption so I think for the purpose of clarity uh our policy could stand some Amendment there uh to clarify that for Local District appeals your decision uh may be subject to further review at the state level we could clarify that but other than that I find that the policy currently meets State Statute all right I'll go ahead and start since no one else has put in there so um Mr penley I do agree with you on that piece um that what we had where it ended at the school board is no longer applicable it can go on to um a magistrate and be heard at the state level so I do agree with you that we have to add that piece because our decision is no longer final
101um for that part but looking at I I'll be honest with you um we've received I mean this has been ongoing thing for over a year we have board members I don't know if you've read everything that we've received especially when it comes at the ninth hour but I'm going to say this again when in the footnotes it was put the actual language I have no I have no understanding how if you're a law-abiding citizen you have an issue with parts of the law being placed in our policy to ensure that if you're not going to go look up the law LA but you're going to look at the policy you know what the law is that you have to follow I mean there are laws for a reason there are federal laws that we
102have to follow we may not agree with all of them but if we don't follow the law we're opening ourselves up for a lawsuit with further action there are state laws that we have to follow we may not agree with all the state laws but we are in a position that we don't get to pick and choose which laws we do or do not follow so I personally am going to say this footnotes stay because we've had to update this policy and by the way it's only been updated once since I've been on this board because we can have many meetings about it we can hash out how to write it or what to say but there is only one meeting in which we voted to advertise it and I'm on year five and one
103meeting after it was advertised for 30 days that we voted to accept the way it was written so today is whatever comes out of this meeting this is not you know a tenth revision of it because even if we change something today it'll have to be brought back as an action item before the board to be voted on to advertise then it will have to be advertised for the legal number of days were required then it will be brought back to the board where we will then have to vote on it and the other thing that I want to say I think probably we all got these emails where individuals wanted us to have a public input time during this Workshop the purpose of a Schoolboard Workshop is so that we can sit here along
104with District staff or whoever we need to hear from to get the information we need because we outside of here we don't meet we can't talk about this because ultimately whether it ends up being voted on or not it could be and we can't do that so I am not going to open up public input during a school board Workshop because we are one of the districts that offer the most public input time under every one of our Schoolboard meetings and so anyone that's listening to this whether you're here or you're at home you can speak about it tonight there's two general times in which you can speak about it you can speak about it at the next board meeting if we don't even make any changes here today you can speak at every board
105meeting or if we do make changes you can continue to come and speak when we are making the changes and we're voting on it and um I will I I want to add this also the law stays there because the law wasn't followed and that's what put us in this position we would not be here today once again having to talk we wouldn't have our state legislators continuing to try to close loopholes or loopholes people thought existed to keep out pornographic or sexually explicit books from minors if we had followed what the law because these part part s about pornographic and sexually explicit are nothing new and I also want to add this you know and if you want a public record request it be my guest because my emails are public requested every week
106all the time I don't have a problem with it I asked you Dr rinsky yesterday if you had heard from A specific group of people and then they sent an email last night I'm not even going to say who they are at this point in time because I have no desire to embarrass them but I will say this board members I hope you opened it and at least read they basically took the whole policy and they rewrote the whole policy everything in red is what they think it should say versus what it says and by the way they start off with remove the footnotes they don't want the law in the policy a polic our policy never trumps the law we could write a policy that goes entirely against the law but guess what when
107it comes to the State of Florida they don't care what our policy is we have to follow the law you could say I'm going to drive down the road and I don't care that the speed limit posted is 45 I'll drive 80 because I'm allowed to do that well do it and see what's going to happen to you but this is the piece that got me that I think our I think Community needs to know this piece under General requirements we have for the purpose of this policy residents shall have that meaning provided in the section 1,628 of the Florida statute they want resident to mean a resident of the county who has maintained his or her residence in Florida for at least the preceding year has purchased a home that is occupied by him
108or her as his or her residence in the county or has established a domicile in the county we have parents that are homeless we have parents that are living in motel we have parents unfortunately living in the woods we have parents living with other family members we have a large number of people that rent okay not everyone owns a home nor if a parent arrives here next week and they feel a month from now that there is something that is inappropriate that goes against the law they have the right to ask or make an objection on that I don't know why we think there should be rules on who can participate and who can't participate even today I guarantee you we have children that registered brand new somewhere in a Valia County school so as
109far as I'm concerned I absolutely agree agree the part we don't have in there is about there can be an appeal to the state level and that piece needs to be in there because that's under the Florida statute and I'm opening it up at this time to hear from anyone else but that's where I stand on this policy Mrs Bernette thank you um Dr Hazel can you tell me because I know you and I have had this conversation before when a book is challenged um and it is removed is it removed from all like if it was elementary if is it removed from all Elementary is it removed from all middles is it removed from all high schools if a book is determined to have violated State Statute is removed from all media collections okay
110so the challenge process at that point doesn't apply because it needs to be removed because it's not meeting State Statute correct if a if a book violates State Statute it's reviewed from all of our media's collections so if there's a challenge put in for a book and it's not found by thect District that it is for one of the four levels that is automatically removed Would we not follow the same process that if it is decided that it's not removed that it should be removed at all elementaries and all middles and all high schools are you following my question sorry I see your can I restate it to see if I have it so if there was a book that was challenged and it didn't fall under one of the four where it was automatically
111removed everywhere but it was had to go through the challenge process would it not equal being REM if if it was found at the school we'll just say Mainland because I know Mainland um would it not be removed from all high schools at that point I mean to me if it didn't pass the challenge it should be removed at all high schools it depends on why it did not pass the challenge if it did not pass the challenge because it was determined so like let's say that Dr rinsky please jump in if I'm if a if a book is reviewed at the district level which we have had some reviewed at the district level it was determined by um the district that it violated State Statute those books are removed from all collections because they
112violate State Statute so just as Miss Hayne said regardless of what our the policy we we have to abide by policy and we have to abide by Statute so those were removed so then if a book is determined we see no violation of State Statute here at the district level but they can still be challenged and if it goes through the challenge process and if at some point in that challenge process it's determined yes this is a violation of State Statute then yes it would be removed from all all of that level schools like I mean there might be some school you know a book may be removed from elementary but it's okay for middle school so so the statute specifically address us is violating the statute so when we're talking about removal of materials
113for violation of the statute you know a person can object to or have a complaint about any material that we use but that doesn't necessarily mean that it violates the statute so that would be another place where the committee would come into play where they would if it doesn't violate statute they they follow that process um outlined in the policy it would be per that school because it doesn't violate the statute but there are different um Community standards there are different um aspects that would be specific to a school that would fall in into play but the main determination for that challenge procedure is if it if it violates the statute yes it would come out of all schools um if it for and specifically when we're looking at does it violate for um pornography
114or for sexual conduct there's a lot of of more discussion around age appropriate or comprehensible to a certain grade level or or baned so if it's not for one of those four reasons there still can be an objection to a person doesn't like it it could still it it wouldn't be removed from all schools if the decision is for that school that would be specific to that school but not necessarily apply to another school I think that's very confusing to be honest with you it it to me if it's removed from a school it should be removed from all schools at that level I I'm just trying to make things easier is all I'm trying to do because it it it's very confusing it that is very confusing could you go back to this I'm
115sorry chair could you go back to the slide and pull up that that one page the one slide that we have of the four um criterias that that are utilized for remov moving books from the CH okay so I think what they're and speak here if you feel so what we're saying is if it is determined to violate any of these four it is removed from all Medias if it is not determined to violate these four but an objection is made for any other reason then and that goes through the challenge process then a particular Media Center can just say we're going to remove this book but it's not required districtwide that they remove it it seems like it's subjective instead of objective I guess is my point um because if it's if it should
116be removed at that school why would it not be removed at another school I don't know it's this could be a debate we had all day long I don't know I'm just that for me that's my perspective I don't understand why we wouldn't make it across the board well and that that is where Community standards come into play as well and when we're specifically thinking about violation of the statute it's in regard to these four items displayed here and other reasons um for objections that might fall out of those bounds are are for discussion between the complainant and the principal the complain and then that would be moved forward to a committee if it's still not resolved there are some parents who who might not want their child to re read a specific author a
117specific title um and they they want for for none for a reasons that we all may agree or disagree with but that doesn't mean that that book necessarily or that material needs removed from all schools um so that's where this statute thinking very specifically about violation of the statute you know are is the material pornographic have sexual conduct that's explicit it's not suited for student needs or inappropriate for a grade level those are the ones that we're specifically addressing with that but how the policy you know how you all decide that would look in policy would be your determination thank you Mr clone so in my conversation with these folks last week one of the things I pointed out is that we don't have time parameters set to this so on December 15th we get
118an email from a complaintant of a book saying my available date to meet with the principal is next year may think about that the person who's making the complaint is saying in December I can't meet with the principal until May okay first of all that's games second of all so I would like to see where in our policy we do uh they have 30 days so which means the staff would also have to make the availability to meet with that complaintant 60 days for it to go to a committee uh of whatever the next steps are 90 days for it to go to the superintendent for a decision and potentially come to the board because the amount of staff time that's being wasted you know arguably that book is off the shelf that entire time
119so even if the decision is made that the book doesn't violate it okay so I think we need to you know it's it's two sides of this number one if it doesn't belong there I've been very open on how I feel about it there's no question about that but the games of I can't meet or I want to do it via teams or I want to do it and don't get me wrong I mean I believe in this day and age to say we're not going to do it in teams is kind of dumb because we did everything via teams in the in the pandemic so if if if the if the thought process is just to make it more difficult then we're just hurting ourselves personally um but I would rather see that you
120know after 90 days of that you know after 30 days if they are not able to come up with a time with the principal they get a 10-day notice and then that objection is considered abandoned because they have not taken the time to meet and that way it will then go away and then if they want to object it again then I don't even know what the state thinks about that because many times but at least we will have some sort of a Time certain before it hits the superintendent and comes to the board so at the very least within 120 days it'll come to the board for decision if not sooner and I don't know what these timelines I know if we say 30 days as Mr penley pointed out um then you run
121into you know Christmas break so half of it's gone just because two weeks and Christmas break are g i I don't know how we can best do this but the premise that the policy states that you know there it's open-ended is is a problem because it's being taken advantage of and so I think that that's the only thing I see on here that is concerning to me um I trust the councel of our attorney uh Mr Wolf I know uh Miss Haynes uh had asked for your opinion and as our Schoolboard attorney so I'd be curious to hear what you've uh learned on this topic but that that's the only thing I really you know there's got to be a time frame we can't continue to waste all this time with books that have been
122objected since October and you know basically being kept off the shelf that entire time just because we don't I I don't want to meet with you until May which by the way it's like the week of graduation so nobody's going to be able to meet so Mr colone before we go to Mr Wolf I'd like to go to Mr penley because Mr penley I have I've asked him this question also and um about can there be a time frame because I asked him to take the laws and the rules and lay it down next to our policy and tell me where there was anything that our policy didn't match the laws the rules or did we have something in our policy that wasn't in the laws and rules and so I'd like for him to
123First share his take because I asked about this timeline piece also thank you madam chair I I I believe if I'm hearing understanding that there is not a timeline required by Statute the statute sets a minimum requirement for what you must do that is that you have a policy that is clear it is posted it is the form um we do the those things uh if you wanted to adopt a time frame we could certainly work around that I need to look at it um what would be the effect of not having a challenge completed within a certain amount of time the other aspect I would point out to your comments Mr cologne was that you uh the use of teams the statute does specifically say as to committee decisions those must be conducted pursuant
124to 286 in in in public so we could not have a team that would not be uh closed in other words but other than that we could certainly work with it Madam chair um we had open meetings on teams and zoom we did it through the pandemic so the question is it has to be an open meeting a as to committee decisions I think that that we distinguish between the informal and the formal because the principal meeting is an informal meeting that could certainly be done by teams or a telephone call or other other means as long as that occurs um but then any committee level when we go into section uh five as to I was referring to that first meeting because this these were emails sent to the principles basically saying meet you
125in May I was just a little confused because we talked about the 60 days for uh completion and then 90 days to the superintendent so 30 60 90 I mean that's just again I'm just you you guys will figure out what numbers best work with the principles to give them enough time to be able to schedule that meeting have that meeting and you know whatever the next steps are in other words it'll be a finite timeline but by the time it reaches the superintendent and even the board you know again we've got x amount of books that are all sitting off the shelf right now because I'll meet you in May and we've said that's okay and I'm not saying these books are good or bad or I don't even know what they are to
126be honest with you it's just that the process seems infinite versus infinite and I don't know many things in the world that are open to I'm infinity and to infinity and beyond so that's what I'm asking that we that the district consider looking at what what are those finite timelines that are attainable uh that are that make it easy for both the principal and the complaintant I'm not saying we need to make it more difficult for them at all no and I agree with you but also in that I think if I remember right that email came to be that way because it was said that the informal meeting could not be via phone or um teams no um the particular email that you're talking about teams was offered teams was or was not offered
127was okay um last school year um when we had had a number of objections we did ask for in-person meetings this this school year um the first informal was offered be a team so so when the objections first made if I'm clear on this the first informal meeting which is with the principal can be via teams correct or in person correct okay I understand under the state statute because when we were during if you remember when we were during the pandemic we had a special I mean they came out with a special ruling that allowed us to meet virtually no no I'm good with that I'm just I just again that's what I wanted to hear in other words we're not making it because the way the statute reads is it requires them to do
128this at every school uh because every Community is different and ironically you know I didn't write that the legislature did right legislature said a book may be good in key we but not be good in maluia County so that was their intent and so you know a book that is in one school and that's not our intent we didn't write that the legislature did so you know to make it more difficult for somebody just because we can I I don't think we should and then like I said having that infinite timeline because trust me I don't want those books coming to us either but you know just the thought that they just sit there forever it's crazy all right do you want Mr Wolf to Yes um I've reviewed policy 320 in the statute and
129I do agree that the last paragraph of uh policy 320 should be uh amended to make it clear that the school board's decision is final um agency action but maybe appeal to a special magistrate I do think that would be important to add um aside from that though so I do feel policy 320 does meet all the requirements of the Florida statute um as as presented thank you Mr persus um if I could just follow up Mr Wolf so so where does the piece that that Mr cologne was addressing how does that fit into policy 320 as far as the timelines well I think there would need to be a timeline for each level of appeal starting from this the the uh a challenge from the school level to the district level to the board
130level and so time periods could be inserted in the policy um uh along those lines okay so is that something that that you would that you would be doing I'm like you would be doing U and then we would have to Madam chair um if that's what the board wants to do then re read vertise all these changes is right now we know there's going to have to be one change because that final statement about the magistrate yeah we don't have that piece in there and that is a new piece okay so we're going to have to read advertise it anyway right go ahead Madam chair we're not advertising this isn't a request to advertise anything we have this is just the workshop so once we get all the language we will share it we
131can come back we'll have our first reading that will authorize correct but we are we're already going to have to go down that process because we had it that we were the final piece but we're no longer the final piece it can go to the state magistrate right that's correct M so that piece has to be added so that's part of why we're here today is because that piece has to be added because that's a piece that we're missing that is in the law like because we basically stopped it but we can't stop it at that level right well I I uh was going to bring up that same issue of just holding off holding out and then you keep a book off the shelf and you know that's just that's just not right so
132we have to take action to prevent um anyone from from doing doing that um yeah I you know as you all know I was I've been in this business forever and uh as principal I just just never had book challenges never had Parents complain about anything that were on the shelves at any level and if the media specialist did hear from a parent they resolv that issue with that particular parent but it wasn't like the book was pulled from the shelf so that no other child could ever have access to it and I it's not our doing you know this is this is uh as I said before I think this is flawed legislation that will probably continue to get amended and amended as each group comes in and they hear from school districts about
133this isn't working the way you thought it might and it's becoming very cumbersome and it's taking a lot of time uh for for people to react to it for board members and uh staff to keep crafting language to to meet the in to meet the intent of the legislation it's it's uh just so hard for me I wish we spent the time we do on this about teaching children how to read and what books to read rather than crafting legislation that takes books off the shelves we should be talking about books to put on the shelves books that children should have available um making it easier for teachers to create a library in their classroom so students can be en enriched by the by stories and tals and and and books and and and just
134great language and illustrations which they many do not have in their homes and now we're creating environments where where teachers are scared about put having something in their room that they think they may be sued or or taken to court or get criticized and uh uh it's to me it's just it's just shameful that we have created not we as a board but that U that that that the whole um State legislation has created this this this fear uh that now exists uh out there and so it puts us in a very difficult Place uh because we want to meet the letter of the law um even if we don't agree with every element in the law we have to abide by the law and I'm not saying that we shouldn't uh but at the
135same time uh getting back to Mr cologne's Point um uh we have to tighten it up too so that people cannot take ad advantage and uh uh deny students from having access to books uh just because a particular parent doesn't want that book and being able to take that book off a shelf to prevent 2,000 other students in that particular school from having access to it I mean something about that just just isn't isn't right I'll stop there U uh M Madam chair and uh uh but I think we're we're making some needed Corrections here Miss Thompson thank you madam chair a real quick question how many books do we currently have waiting in limbo so we have um 16 books that were objected to and I'll get out my um numbers here for you
136we have um several that were in violation of the statute and have been removed we also have some that were um removed by the school prior to um any further discussion so we have two we have four that do not violate the statute um but they have not been um discussed with the principal so there is not a conversation yet about that that conference has not occurred so those are still off the shelves um because that is what the state statute says um we have three that have been removed by school Personnel for for a variety of reasons there were seven books that violate the statute and we have two that are still currently under review that have not been designated as violating or not violating as of yet okay and then I agree with
137the part I think we all are in agreement with that part adding it at the end and then in section five paragraph B um if we could if you know we're adding stuff put in there that can be in person that first initial meeting in person or Zoom or phone call because as long as the timeline doesn't violate State Statute any way um and Mr penley can you confirm that that having a timeline would not because I don't want to keep coming back to this over and over again because we've discovered we did something that we shouldn't have done yeah it's it's interesting the way that this statute is written uh 106 includes paragraphs not only for adoption of media selection materials but also for specific instructional materials the instructional material is is like uh
138was presented earlier today in the workshop when we're talking about a social studies curriculum so there is precedence in the statute for having a timeline as to adoption of instructional materials uh if a a parent files a challenge it has to be done within a specific timeline after the adoption so we talked about that earlier today too that's a 30-day window you have to file the The Challenge and then that 30-day period is is a finite number to to Mr cologne's point so that's in uh paragraph three of 10628 so the legislature certainly can set minimum requirements for timeline it just doesn't have anything specific as to selection of mediate materials for the school library or the classroom Library my interpretation of that means that you can by policy have your own timeline and so
139T once again it says 30 days so I'm going back to Mr cologne's Point wait but the 30 days is only for curriculum adoption yes um if we were going to adopt a timeline I see what you say about like spring break and Christmas break if we could do it just throwing this idea out there like 30 school work days that's what I was thinking to calendar days yeah exact not even calendar working I would even do working that would maximize it huh working days but you have to do working days because if it was submitted it was submitted on December 15th no that's I think I I think what we were saying is the same thing it just came out different okay Bia County School's working days you work in a hospital that's why
140you yeah that's working days 247 Monday through yeah I don't I do kind of work Monday through Friday that's exactly if I may Madam chair apologize for the interruption um school days is the preferred Department of Education rule designation school days carries a different connotation than work days so right school days school days okay yeah and if we had that Zoom or phone available that should make it a lot easier because I get in person because some parents work all day and if school hours so as long as we have those options in there I think that would be nice to have that's all Madam chair I have more sorry I miss anything else no ma'am I'm done for thank you um so I had noted to to to do the same change maybe put
141in there the virtual meeting permitted during that first informal meeting that that gives everybody a better chance I mean I'll be honest with you the zoom teams meetings whatever have been a godson to me because especially when you're driving all over the place at times so it's really nice to have that option um and if it's legal I think that that would be great for us to to be able to follow through with that um and then my only other thing is is there other timelines that aren't on and by all means I think our policy is way long enough I don't really want to add more to it to be honest with you I just want to make sure we put the pertinent laws that we must follow in place if there's ever a
142question is there any other timelines like how how quickly the the books must be removed um so so should we put that in here is is it five days now I believe so should we put that in there the statute speaks to removal of an objection based on pornography or obscenity or sexual conduct within five days of the challenge but so that means removal but it's it also then goes on to say until the objection is resolved so that open-ended language there means it could be through appeals process the the different committee review process could be as Mr cologne has said infinite right and what I'm hearing that the consensus of the board at least is that we will work with put providing a timeline around when those reviews are to take place and a
143resolution will come into place I do think we owe that to everybody um and then um Mr persus you said something and it really it hits home with me because I try to be a positive cupful kind of person person and um I would love to see people send us a book a list of books can we add these instead of can we remove these I mean there's got to be there's got to be why are you laughing at me no but I'm serious is there is there I would love to see us have a list of books that are good for everybody that are not harmful to anyone that meet all of the laws and can we can we add these books and then we can kind of change the Dynamics and the culture
144of this conversation because we do want to have our kids reading we do need to improve them and I don't know that's just my opinion I I just want to comment on that because media Specialists are regularly selecting books and adding them to their collections based on State Statute so they are all trained annually and that is part of the state statute so they are curating lists to share with their media advisory committees to add to their collection so I just want want you to know we are purchasing books there are some districts who stopped purchasing books we are not one of them um but the media advisory committee at each school is reviewing books that that are recommended by the schools each school has a different way of collecting student interests teacher interest to
145add to their collection so they are that is part of the selection of materials um as well could could we highlight that I mean seriously can we highlight that highlight it as how would you like it is in the policy selection of materials is in the policy highl can we highlight the books we're looking to buy I mean because I think both ex you know both both parties would like to know that I mean I think that it would be nice for us to say look look what we are doing it's positive you guys laugh at me but I'm positive and so I just think that's something fun to do it would help improve culture and that's my take so laugh all you want I love it one more mrone Mr iisy how many books
146do we have in our district in our cart catalog right now um that is a trick question um I probably there's a few schools I could tell you exactly how many because we've done a lot of work with their collection um most schools have between and again it varies between the size of the school the the goal is to have about um no less than 15 books per student um for checkout so I would say we probably have close to 300 what's what was 350 if you 945 we don't have quite that many but I'm just trying to think about per school um we have anywhere between 700 and 10,000 Plus so times 70 schools so what's the math on that Mr pinley we have say a million books about 500,000 books I can give
147you I'll go back and I'll have a number exactly for you in about 10 minutes whatever you say is true and so how many books are currently being challenged right now we have 16 that are currently under objection so 16 out of half a million books and how many hours and hours and hours have we spent on 16 books and don't get me wrong I'm not saying they all belong there they don't I didn't read them I can't tell you what they're I couldn't tell you the T the name of one of them yeah it's just going back to Anita's point I think it's time we transform the rhetoric and the culture war and start talking about what are the books of the month maybe we get books of the month for each level and
148get them at the school and drop 10 copies off for who Wants wants to read them because we're spending all I mean I I laugh with my colleagues here because I tell them book you it's become that kind of a word and so it's it's it's time we and Anita I'm agreeing with you it's time we turn around this riter because we're spending hours on 16 books and we have a million so keep moving thank you so I'm guessing you need direction from us I have been taking notes and listening intently so so then can we review some of the notes before we end just to make sure we've captured all can I can I add something else sure so then next so let's say the it comes to the board and the board then
149decides you know this book or this goes to the superintendent superintendent decides this book is okay for that grade level decision make the book goes back when the parent rechallenges that book is it the same process all over again can they rechallenge that book every week and so what does it look like if a book is challenged goes through the process does it go automatically then to the superintendent instead of back to the principle because the way we because a book can be challenged every day of the week and so every time we say no right now they can come back every every week and say well I want that book off the shelf and so so I I'd be curious to see what we can do to establish a process that makes that clear
150because if after the second time the superintendent says this book does not violate then it comes to the board the board makes the decision then it goes to a magistrate I don't imagine starting that process all over again every single time no I I Dr re will you pull up this simplistic chart that you put in the PowerPoint the one the challenge process yes so the objections made we've learned today that the objection has as she shared with us could be by a phone call an email or the form it starts with the principal at the school it could actually end there if it doesn't end there it goes to the school committee we have directions on what's the makeup of the school committee then if it it could end there if it doesn't it
151goes as an appeal to the superintendent it could end with the superintendent if it doesn't it comes to the district committee it could end there if it doesn't it comes to us if it it could end with us if it's if it doesn't end with us it goes to the magistrate at that point in time it's over over so never does it start back over but the magistrate doesn't have the ultimate ruling on the book it's a recommendation to the board correct I thought it was an ultimate ruling well then actually State Board of Education reviews the special Magistrate's determination so maybe we need to add that in the chart that if it leaves the ma it goes from the magistrate to the State Board of Education and if it goes the State Board of
152Education the statute reads the State Board of Education must approve or reject the recommended decision at its next regularly scheduled meeting that is more than seven calendar days and no more than 30 days after the date the recommended decision is transmitted they have a timeline do does it mention if the book If the book is not able to be rechallenged again or where what the time frame is beyond that if it my thought is if you're keeping a chart and it's already fallen through that and the state board it reaches a state board of vet and they say yay or nay it's I'm finished with it don't don't challenge it again at least for a year I'm sure there are bright young attorneys out there that would be willing to take a state board determination
153that's they can but so so then I have one last question are there and and this is like Groundhog Day is there any current legislation that's going to make us revisit this policy potentially between now and July 1 not this legislative session so there is currently [Music] no we never say never this is Groundhog Day we never say never but at this point in the legislative season all of the Committees on the house side have adjourned except for rules and Appropriations to do budget conferral uh my understanding uh and the Senate has one or two uh other substantive committees that are are still meeting but there there just isn't a window right now that we're seeing in the legislative session to amend this this section got it very good thank you we're good for at
154least six months I can promise you that well and if you look at our original policy this policy was originally written in 1974 yeah but we amended that I know we've amended it but I mean it was originally written it gives the whole history here I was right there with the longdistance calling it was and you had to pay for it well hopefully we get to a point where first off any books at D meeting what shouldn't have been ever brought in aren't here anymore and this is you know we get through all this and that ends so right because I'm with Mr persus I mean he taught I taught I had book cases of books in my classroom but what I can honestly tell you it didn't matter which level I was teaching at
155nothing I had broke any of those four rules I mean I don't understand why anyone needs to be fearful because I think those four rules are very clear and if you are in doubt about a book and whether it may go against one of those four rules don't put it on your shelf like why put yourself in that situation I mean when this topic came up I had to apologize because I laughed when somebody said there were materials that were describing explicit sexual experiences I seriously had to laugh because I said there's no way I haven't spent my entire career the bulk of it in classrooms were seriously had bookshelves full of books for children to take home with them and I never had a book that ever would have broken any of these four
156criteria and I didn't need somebody to spell them out to me to even not to know not to break those pieces and then I had to apologize when they put books in front of me that broke the criteria I I mean you've already out of the 16 you've already removed seven that violate the criteria even less like 0.00001% I know but we we just shouldn't be here and no one should be fearful unless you're choosing to break the rules I I mean it's that simple I mean here's the thing I'll go back to the driving if you're driving 80 miles per hour in a 40 mile per hour Zone you need to be fearful that you're probably going to get pulled over and get a ticket but how do you correct that you don't drive
15780 in a 45 m per hour zone so if you're in fear or in doubt of a book on your shelf take it home it's that simple don't put it on your shelf that's that I mean it's that easy is where I'm at so could we please review what changes are going to take place so we have been we are taking our direction that we are to go back and do a revision of the policy to present to the board to be advertised um it will not be advertised until it is presented to the board for a first reading and those change suggested changes are under 4B to add an electronic means for that first informal meeting which was offered and has we've been doing that in practice this school year for section five oh
158I'm sorry section five and then add a 30 6090 day timeline good with whatever you guys decide is doable I'm not stuck on the time frame you all know from a district from a school persp consult with principles and and stff I would think 60 is going to be more practical than well 30 it's 30 30 to meet school days if it is school school days to meet and then 60 for it to go through and then at 90 days remember school's a busy principl of busy people we'll work through timelines that are reasonable and get some get some input for that can you somehow take this chart and use it kind of insert it into the policy yes or or or put it in there in those like just make it clear that chart
159is the clearest thing I've seen be able to show anyone to go this is the order in which this will happen we will write this out in policy but we'll have a visual aid at the presentation if that if that is helpful and we'll include the timelines um we'll do some we'll get some input as far as timeline goes and share that with you all as well and then under five each include the language that Mr penley read about the magistrate yes and then I did make a note about book of the month but that's not exactly policy and after and can you put with the magistrate piece exactly what it says it says it'll go before the um State Board of Education like just put that whole little PE in there you're looking at
160me that's the end well it's a matter of state law so whether it's in our policy or not it has to be have to follow it okay whatever it takes the five day the Fay challenge rule were we going to put that in there too that you have five days to remove the books we already have that oh is it in there okay oh the five days is not in the policy it's in statute if if policy can just match the statute as much as possible I'm not asking you to put the I know how many pages of the policy is Kevin okay but I I'm just looking for C I'm that's why I said lay both parts because really I mean if you go off and write some policy that doesn't match this your
161policy is not worth a thing because the state law is what we have to follow prob have 12 emails right now telling us that it's not oh not yet I I just I didn't I don't understand you don't have to follow the rules good may I ask something yes go ahead can can we can you guys email us the ver I you usually do email it and then ask us individually so we're not emailing each other but if we have any additional email it to you the minute it's emailed there will be a public record request asking for every body else to see it before you we'll follow our superintendent's Direction on on sharing okay that's fine we can talk about it on our one-on-one thank you because I would prefer that it not be
162posted on social media before we even have a chance to see it to review you disagree with me no Madam chair I don't disagree I'm just looking as I'm reviewing more carefully the the language that's currently in our policy section 5D includes a 15 working days uh for referral to the principal section 5e refers to the committee's recommendation shall be submitted to the superintendent within 15 working days we already have a little bit of a timeline going here um I just don't want to uh conflict with that with any revisions so if you'll permit us to work through we understand the direction that together and if you need Mr Wolf can all work on this um we would greatly appreciate it and the other thing I would say is that we do reference on multiple
163occasions in the policy that we were are following section 106 282a Florida Statutes so all of that is subsumed in your policy so writing in statutory Provisions in your policy is not the best practice we're happy to do it it's your policy we'll do it however you want want but just in terms of you making it clear because the statute does require that the board's policy be clearly stated and easy to understand that that language is in the statute if we go complicating it too much with this that's why I like that chart I understand I understand the chart and we will work with that but um let me do some massaging we will circulate it among Council and have a recommendation for you to consider and then then we're happy to address in any
164uh individual meetings how we uh make changes to that and what I currently like to ask is on page two the heading for section three did it move up to the next page if like some things like that there are some formatting issues I agree there are some formatting issues that need normally we don't have two pages of footnotes so maybe maybe we move to endnotes that might solve some of the formatting issues but I I am fine as long as they stay there understood okay because good with that notes we had to put we had to put them we had to put them in there because we had people that we good with that consensus I'm good with end notes everybody good with that all right so Dr bwin you're good yeah we're good
165all right then at this time it is 3:24 and we are adjourned and we will be back here at 4:30 for the school board meeting