001Welcome everyone to this April 184 School District work session on June 9th at 6:00 p.m. and we are getting started here. I'm going to do a roll call starting with my left and going around. >> Bill Holmgren >> Kim Baker >> Michael Bowman >> Matt Swanson >> Carly Anderson >> Brenda Albrecht >> Michelle Humphrey >> Brian Thompson >> Emily McDonald >> Paul Carbone >> Tracy Vold >> Joe Berquist guest >> Thanks and Amber Cameron With that we'll get started. Thank you Joe for being here tonight to discuss the arenas annual report and budget. I'll turn over to you. Is that okay? >> Okay. It's been another really good year. I don't know if you have your slideshow up with you or and I'll just kind of walk through some of the highlights of the year.
002We had a record year in ice sales. We hit we actually doubled our revenue since I started in 2020 since our high in 2019. We hit our double this year going into this year. So excited about that. First thing I like to just point out for anybody that's new is we are a joint powers agreement between the school district and the city. So we are a separate entity and I report to Michael and a few other board members and Carly. Um but we are we do not use any public funds to operate. It's all paid for through what we revenue that we generate. So we are very proud that we have never dipped into any public funds to operate in the 16-17 year existence of Lakeville Arenas and I think that's a attributed to the
003past managers and both the school board and and city. So Um We we had our first full year of the pavilion the new pavilion rink outside and with some improvements I'll talk about on that. We had another record year of ice hours sold. We had over 6,600 sold. We had Maggie Flaherty, a Lakeville resident, that won the uh, Walter Cup two years in a running with the, uh, women's hockey team. Uh, we launched it inaugural hockey camp mini mini mite hockey camps in 2005 as we started into our programming. We hosted our first figure skating competition event, which was brand new. Um, and our learn to skate again became a record record attendance. So, our ice hours I mentioned are up 549, which is in new programs and tournaments and off-season programs since we expanded
004the ice arenas to 24/7 three all 12 months a year. Uh, we used to operate much less. Um, LHA bought quite a bit more ice because of the pavilion rink. Adult hockey hours are up 132 hours last year. And our pick up ice sales are up 45 hours. So, again, we're growing in every aspect. Um, our mite leagues, our skills competition, and I'm excited about some of the new things we're launching this year, which I'll talk about a little bit later. Highlights again, Lakeville Hockey Day is always a very strong event. We hosted a Pee Wee tournament, a regional tournament in 2025, and a state tournament in 2026. So, that's in the world of hockey, that's a pretty big deal to land one of them. Um, we did host at the beginning of 2025, which
005I mentioned last year, we hosted the US Hockey Hall of Fame game with the Minnesota Women's Gophers and the Miji State. Our, uh, Heritage Figure Skating Club continues to host an annual event, which seems to get more popular every year. Um, so from that standpoint, an up- an update on the pavilion rink, which year two upgrades, we learned a lot our first year, especially with the wind and the sun. Uh, we had trouble making and keeping ice in the beginning. Uh, so there's a picture you can see the new sun screens installed. They'll be stretched this year, so it'll actually almost look like walls. Um, but that's >> melt ice? >> Sun melts ice, more so than I thought. Our ice plant didn't quite cover it. >> paying attention to chemistry. >> [laughter] >> I
006was going to say, when that was first open, I had my one of my kids was practicing on there and I put my snow pants [snorts] on and my jacket and just walked around the rink cuz there was so much cold wind. >> It's cold. >> But this year we finally, you know, we got all the locker rooms completed, the heaters in. We'll have the heaters over the benches and so forth. And all this is upgrades that we're doing ourselves in order to stretch our dollars. Um, so it'll be almost enclosed this year. Outside of some areas, but everybody did comment that it was much warmer, or you know, much better this year than the opening year where it was completely wide open and it was difficult, which I knew the novelty of it was
007going to wear off after a couple years, but it wore off right after the first year. So, and it's got footings in for permanent walls, so the sooner we get to that world, the better. But it's been actually, I'm very excited about it cuz I think the off season, once we get the summer events going in there, it's going to be a community asset, not just a hockey asset. And with quinceanera, we already had a quinceanera in and we a lot of community type events. So, I'm excited about that end of it. >> call those 15-year-old What is that mean? >> [laughter] >> I'm sorry, I didn't see. I'm going deaf, actually. >> [laughter] >> I I assumed you were speaking Spanish, but I don't do that. >> You said quinceanera. >> [laughter] >> Yeah,
008quinceanera, that's all I know. >> 15-year-old birthday. >> Yeah. So, from a financial standpoint, we had another very good year. Like I mentioned, we were almost pretty much doubled going into this year. We We were double. >> [snorts] >> Um we did hit We do um hit some roadblocks with electric is very obviously we have amended the budget as is in the packet. I know a lot of notes on what we did to adjust the budget. We're in good shape to meet, but um electric and some of the utilities are way up and some other things, but we're in in good standing, good position to adjust that. Um but as far as growing goes, I want to point out a couple things on our revenue. We started diversifying revenue when I started 6 years ago
009or 5 years It's going to be 6 years already. Um and ice rental revenue right now is um one of our biggest growth, but our programming has taken off this year. Um this is our second year of camps and we saw an increase of 100 and over $100,000 just in our ice ca- Mike camp. We're launching a whole bunch of new That's what we hired a full-time programming person, so we will see our revenues the diversified revenues, which is our learn to skate program, our programming, which went up 26,000 last year or this year it's going up or 67,000. Um it's going up on our probably be up $200,000 this year. So, uh and the reason I bring some of this up is it used to be seven probably 90% of our revenue came from
010just ice rentals. Um and that was we sold ice and we skimmed by, but we ice rentals are now only 72% um of our total revenue base. So, concessions, we had a record Well, we had a equal year in concessions. This is to the $1,000 a year. So, now we're revamping that and going to go after the half million mark. Um and I said we're Next year, we are launching all our new programs. Um so, we're excited about that. What I'm really excited about is we launched a new um community ice programs. So, I've kind of grown weary of We kind of got hit hard by the kids-for-profit groups that come in and make a lot of money off the kids in the summer time. Um and a lot We had a lot of cancellations
011this year. Um which kind of hurt us. So, we are launching even more of our own. So, just for an example, for $750 a year, hockey players are going to get our breakfast club training. We're taking over that, somebody that left. We're to you know, so that's all year to before school, before classes. That's a popular training program. We have our might leagues. Um We're going to be launching a fall training program. Our open stick and puck, but that's all included in these new memberships. So, right and it's a value of probably about 3,000 $3,600. If they were paying from the for-profit people. So, we're really excited about launching this for the community, especially with the way we think the economy's going right now as far as those of us down below that we're feeling
012the crunch. So, um and we launched one for ice club memberships, which is for the figure skaters and so forth and people that just want to use the public ice. Um so, I think that's the most exciting thing about coming up next year. We're anticipating some very large revenues from that in addition to that. So, I'm sorry I go off on the financials. That's my favorite part of this job. So, I apologize. I'm droning [clears throat] on and I know I've been told in the past, you need to back off on that. Just hit the highlights. So, with that, I'm going to close and there's any questions or comments you'd like to share this the budget is included what we're required to submit this to the school board and the and the school district simply
013for comment. You don't have to vote or approve anything. It's just any comments. If you don't have them now, you can provide them to me at another time and I take that back to our board before we adopt the budget. So >> Yeah, Matt, random question. What was the construction between Hasse and the pavilion? >> So we're putting in the dirt that's there piled up. We are in we're taking containers. We're going to put two of them together on one side and one on the other. So there's going to be a concession stand there with a container roof that we purchased that is just four containers. So we're going to have a concession stand there and that's really geared at the summer events. And on the other side we're going to have a catering kitchen
014like much like a park pavilion. So when it's rented for graduations and family reunions, people can bring in their food and have a commercially licensed kitchen for that. So and then we're doing the same off the back of it for a temporary Zamboni shed and storage area. So >> Awesome. Brian? >> Yeah, so uh great that it's being utilized more and more. Um I'm curious with the expansion. Has there has the backlog of customers who are wanting to use it declined or has the backlog have has grown because now you've got this recognition, you've got two facilities, you have multiple facilities XYZ. That's my first question. The second one is that uh with expenditures going up uh it does look like you guys are increasing rates and and so I I guess I'm curious to
015know that are the rates going up because the utilities and all the and that's the factor that's going up or are we looking at other ways to cut costs so that the rates stay stagnant while other costs go up so that parents are well, we We these nice facilities is like every year they they're going to pay more, but again it's a community facility. So like what can we do to lower the cost and and again staffing wise every year there's a raise they get a raise they get a raise, but eventually we get we'll get to a point where there are economies of scale because we've got these multiple facilities where you can purchase more with a lower rate or a lower cost and then how do those savings get passed to you know
016participants. So again you've got a backlog I'm sorry is there a backlog and then two uh 3.75% rate, but like what do we what do you do what do you guys do about that for next year because again as as a Lakeville community member every year I I I might complain I don't have a hockey player, but like I might complain rates are going up again rates are going up again. I thought this was supposed to be you know less expensive. >> Yeah. Um so to address well hockey is never expensive. [laughter] But um to address the first one pardon? >> Did you say never expensive? >> Never [laughter] >> I said it's not less expensive. >> Okay so um the first one as far as a backlog there is as far as demand goes
017during the winter season the demand is for instance it's getting stronger. LHA is adding I believe five teams at the squirt level this year which is a huge jump which also means the might levels are going to follow that and probably increase as well so demand during the summer or winter they're actually purchasing more hours this year. Um that's going to continue to grow I think for the foreseeable future depending on how the economy goes. I think it's some of the extra spending like I mentioned that will maybe decrease which is my off season which is another reason for us getting in the program to backfill that preparing for a decline in them customers. Um because in summer time it's very competitive out there and they're out pricing everybody trying to lowball the arenas against
018each other for tournaments and so forth so by running our own we actually we gained some profit on top of profit we would have had. And that's really what's funding the majority of our expansion is our summer time ice time. Um From a cost standpoint, interestingly enough, we had been holding and my goal had been to hold our rates um at a >> [cough and clears throat] >> much lower rate than we had been holding them until last year when um LHA asked us to actually raise them >> [cough] >> and [clears throat] instead of providing a large contribution to help us finish the pavilion rink. Um the tarps and so forth and the warming houses and all the amenities that were [clears throat] not part of the original budget. So, they actually requested that
019we just increase the rates by $30 an hour to pay for all that to help with that. Um but the board at the time we decided only to go 20 and then wait till this year to do another 10. So, right now that 10% I believe is a 3.5% increase in the rates. Um expenses you know, we're obviously in a growth mode right now with the pro We have a lot more potential out there. So, in the near future, the next few years I don't see that us hitting that wall for quite some time. Unless everything totally bottoms out. >> I mean, hockey cannot be even people might like oh, hockey's not cool. Let's go play baseball instead. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um maybe not. I'm just kidding. >> [laughter] >> So, I know
020for for for our school district we have different tiers in our facility fees. And so it does Do you Do you guys offer something Do you do something com- com- >> We We >> We have just a a standard price um standard winter rate with an after 10:00 p.m. rate. Um so, there's that's the tier that we go to. Um or during school days in the morning. So, it's a cheaper rate there like that's where a lot of groups >> When I say tier, we if you are >> a resident >> resident you get a lower discount and then if you're like a a for profit it's a >> It's classification. >> classification >> Yeah. >> [cough] >> We do not do that. Um that's pretty There are a few generally you see that in
021the public arenas when there's some funding being provided. Um but ultimately we rely on just as heavy you know our agreement with Lakeville is >> [cough] >> charge anyone more than you. Um and one of the things I did a few years ago was I instituted a fee schedule which never used to exist. >> Yeah. >> Um cuz there used to be a lot of bargaining and negotiating that I just wasn't comfortable with. I think everybody needs to pay an approved rate and uh so there's there's a summer rate and there's a winter rate and they're prime and everybody pays the same. >> Yeah and and I'm not on the board but I would assume or I would I would ask that um if I'm a Lakeville community member ideally I would like to be
022able to pay a discount or a rate lower than someone from Apple Valley coming into my place. And if I've got another association or hockey association wanting to use Lakeville facilities uh I wouldn't want them to be able to take my spot and and pay the exact same rate that I would pay at a different you know cuz cuz I'm I live here you know and my taxpayer [clears throat] dollars contribute to this and the people in our community fund the revenue and the expenditures. So similar to what we do at our district, if you are an association or organization not in our community, you pay a a higher fee. Now I don't know what the percentage is maybe it's like 10% or like a 15% bill tax I don't know but >> What we
023what we tend to do is we have we pro we give priority to residents in Lakeville. >> Yeah but but no cost savings to the residents. >> No there's no cost savings. I mean really realistically arenas are based on it's prime season 24/7. >> Yep. >> Um and they buy 90% of the ice or have access to 90%. So that's really what pays our bills year round. My goal has been to lower the rates to the summer rentals and maximizing >> Yep. >> off the for-profit and we were definitely on that path. >> Mhm. >> but you know, it comes down to paying them bills year round and so >> And and and our residents are the ones that generally cover all all of that. >> I mean >> Uh like like LHA right now
024which is your basically residents are down. It used to be they were probably funding about 80-90% um I have that down now to they're probably I think the last time I ran the numbers on it was down in the 60%. >> Okay. >> Um so we're making headway on non-resident paying their paying [clears throat] their share fair share. >> question because we're the the school district, right? And so I love LHA. I know you're members. Um but that's not under our purview, right? That's more of a So to help me understand, obviously our high school teams are using the ice, correct? How does that work? Are we paying a fee to use the ice? >> same ice rental fee. >> Okay. And that's our primary relationship. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> I don't have to
025pay that fee. >> I mean, let me phrase it >> for-profit model. >> I understand, but I think I mean, if we're going to be a part of this, I mean, I I think that our our district, our students should be able to get a discount or should have a lesser fee than someone else from another community from another district. That that's all I'm saying. Like that that's my point of view on that one. >> But George, what I'm hearing you say is they're not There's really no other users during the winter now and we rewrote the policy for LHA because it used to be LHA got this many hours. Then they would jump High school always gets their hours first. Then we jump to LHA. Then we would go through because of the Rosemount
026or neighboring communities are some of them are part of, so it's based on their student base. Our part of Lakeville are residents. So then we give some to Farmington, some to Apple Valley, you know, so we'd have to go through a whole step. Which we we cut that out. We rewrote the policy so that LHA gets everything they want first and the school district. So and it's been a little bit of grumbling in the other communities who well we have residents too. Um but the majority are well taken care of and are put on top of that. >> So the increase then also impacts I'm assuming our budget because or the school district's budget. If you increase those rates then our hockey team and anyone else who uses the ice, I mean we're we're getting
027hit too. >> But the alternative would be having to build our own ice rink, right? So >> Well the alternative is ask the board at the arenas to say hey, make sure our Lakeville residents [clears throat] are taken care of first and then you know, jack up 5% for those that are not Lakeville residents. Very much to our classification model for our facility use. I mean we've got you know, Bill can you do a quick half an hour minute half an hour like a paragraph overview like if you're a class two or a class can you define what a class one, two, and three is and because class three is paying way much more, right? Or >> Yeah, a class three is for profit. Okay, so they have a heart lot higher rate than our
028non-profit people. And then then we have our booster clubs and our real local people. That's tier one and they have the lowest rate. And we have three tiers. >> Matt >> Isn't the increase didn't you just say it was like 3.5% for this year? >> Pardon? >> The increase is only like 3.5% on these user fees. >> And we budgeted 5% increases in all of our expenses, higher in >> [clears throat] >> electric and some of the ones we're concerned about. But because we're in that growth mode, you know, we're able to fund it. But, some The day will come when we'll hit a wall and >> Yeah. >> Um >> Mhm. >> And I assume the Cuz I [clears throat] just have kid a kid in mites, but as you get older, uh those
029parents are probably paying higher fees to participate hockey. Even at the high school level? >> It's at 3.5. >> Not at the high >> Number stays at increase, yeah. >> Not at the high school level? >> It's when you're in the sports. >> Yeah. Cuz what is [clears throat] the percentage of time used ice time used by the high school teams? >> I offhand I >> They're not necessarily affiliated with the school. >> I mean >> They're just the city. >> for like, for example, LHA, I like it. I don't think we could we should increase your rates. But, I'm just I'm just suggesting that if there are other avenues where we can distribute some of I mean, if the rate increase for our our community is, let's say, 1% and then it's 4 and
0301/2% for everybody else. Like, hey, cool. That that's fine. I mean, I I'm not I I guess what I'm trying to get to is that if I'm a community member here, I should be able to say, "Hey, this is my community. This is my This is my ice time. This is our school district. Uh we're paying taxpayer dollars are going to you anyway, so it's like, well, then let's just, you know, consider an alternative model." >> of that could be that the district and the city don't overlap boundaries, right? So, I'm paying [clears throat] actually taxes to the Burnsville Ice Arena and to Hass or to the Lakeville arenas. So, I'm paying double. I should I could Right? So, I mean, I think this is just an easy arrangement to say, "We get first To
031have first dibs is really amazing." And that is a nominal increase. >> Well, but why can't we have it all? I mean, candidly, like, why not? I mean, if if we >> Well, I mean, the obvious thing is that if you have it all, the improvement I mean, it's a very difficult business to keep afloat without tax dollars. >> Yeah. >> And if everybody's I mean, I I There are not too many So, ice arenas that I'm aware of that give a special rate just because of the way the arena operates. You're so reliant on everybody and the minute you start the non, whether it's a non-resident, whether it's an outside group, we're so reliant on them. They price us against every other arena. >> And so and that goes back to my first question.
032What's the back back bar like? Is there a high demand for [clears throat] ice time? And and if they if you raise your rates as an example, are they going to go somewhere else? And if they go somewhere else, then they've got to go find availability at that somewhere else, which they may not >> And in the nine months of the year, the availability is out there everywhere. So, most arenas, what they're doing is they're discounting the ice steeply to get that business in the off season and they're discounting it below what the residents are paying. >> Has the Carly has the board or Michael you go to ever discussed like the arrangement or people feel good about the financial >> I am very proud of where the in terms of the journey of ours.
033I think something we talked about in the meeting this past week when we were looking at this is the fact that this is a successful partnership with the city and we're above the bar here is something I mean, Joe I only heard you compliment previous managers, but you've done an amazing job in terms [clears throat] of growing um, this organization and being able to like you said, diversify and recruit my children to buy all your sessions. Um, so it's been a it's been a situation of positivity. So, while I think we I mean, I'm not opposed to necessarily at our next board meeting exploring what that might look like because it's not just us too, it's the city that would have an opinion about it. We could certainly talk about it, but it hasn't been
034something that we I I Joe's made a good point is we're not in a situation where we can um really get like we're taxing other people more um because then they just won't come. They'll find another arena to go to. >> Which will cause me to raise rates on the revenues. Fair. >> [laughter] >> So it yeah. >> It It's a balancing act. It really is. It's It's no great solution other than in my world, I try to diversify as much as I can and make sure I take advantage of the opportunities to hit the for-profits as best I can. So, you know, ultimately I don't want to raise rates and you know, outside of being able to finish the facilities, um that was a joint, you know, agreement that LHA approved and you know,
035they recommended that that be done in order to meet the shortfalls. And then we actually did increase the summer ice residents more than I think we had a $30 increase to them versus a $20 increase to the school. >> LHA Isn't I mean, I feel like correct me if I'm wrong, Joe, but LHA is also trying to balance things in terms of fees for hockey with regard to like the gambling stuff the the money that they're getting from that stuff pull tabs, sorry. Um to offset some of the costs because we know that hockey is a very expensive sport trying to make it more affordable. Um so if there's some of those offsets that families in different arenas have. >> And one of the issues like when I came on board, I know the facilities
036were in pretty rough shape. And you know, there's a lot of expense in that we are trying to reinvest. So I mean, while we haven't been trimming rates as much as I would like, we have been investing heavily into repair maintenance and adding all you know, giving paint jobs to facilities so north and south feel like it's a home instead of the grays. And we're in the We're really investing a lot of money right now, just reinvesting it into the the facilities. You know, so that's another part of the balance is we don't have any tax funding for our operating, so we It's not as, you know, >> But it seems like an increase that's pretty parallel to inflation. Shouldn't be a huge surprise to anyone, right? If we're increasing by 10% or something really
037high, this is kind of just your average >> And in the fee schedule, I always provide the local We [clears throat] are in that average and we jumped up. I was trying to get us down at the bottom, but we do I definitely try to keep, you know, our fees as low as we can. >> Yeah. Brian, did you have a question? >> Yeah, of the 2.1 million dollars that that was earned, how much did the school district pay for that last year? >> I believe, well, how many hours school district buys about 200 hours Um at 280 dollars an hour, so whatever the math is on that quickly. So they got that. >> 200 hours >> 56,000. >> How much? >> Approximately 56,000. >> What do you mean >> Oh, wait. 400 Wait, you
038said 200 hours? >> 200 hours >> at 280 an hour? >> 280 an hour. >> So 56,000. >> That's what I got. 56, right? So we're good? >> All right. >> I said So that's not >> Maybe I'm Maybe it's 200 per school then. >> It's 200 per school. >> Yeah, that could be it. >> 100,000. >> Budget's about 200. >> So we So we spend about 10%. So 10% of the revenue comes from us. >> 10 to 20, I would say in that way. Yeah. I I Sorry, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but >> LHA is the big >> LHA is the majority. >> Okay. >> I mean, they're they're really the reason the facility exists, so. >> Yeah. So we're looking at like a 7,000 range, which is fine.
039I mean, I'm not going to say which is fine, but it's Yeah. We're spending I mean, we're contributing 10%, um but more importantly, uh the school district gets first dibs, and then >> Yeah, I mean, that's >> Polytech gets second dibs, and then everybody else gets the rest. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Any other questions? All right, thanks for coming. >> I just want to say great job, Joe. The board was universally thrilled. This is >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming. >> Thanks, Joe. >> Yep. >> All right, with that, I'm going to turn over to Mr. Holmgren to discuss uh the intent to sell bonds. >> I wanted to take just a few minutes to talk about this resolution that'll come to you at the next uh board meeting. Um I also have um
040Shelby here sitting back from Ehlers in case you have any other questions. But, as you know, a few weeks ago, we passed a new bond referendum to do the additions to the uh middle schools. Um so, now this will be our first borrowing, as we talked about, instead of just going out there and borrowing the whole 100 139.6 million at once, and then paying interest and all that, we will we'll tier it up. We'll borrow multiple times to save some interest costs. So, this will be our first borrowing here in September. Okay. So, this is what this is It's It's uh putting in place to say uh It's starting everything the wheels in motion to have the sale on the bonds. You look on page two at the at the top, you see we have
041here um setting up to sell $70 million. There's just There's a second piece to this um resolution, which helps us It's number seven on page three, and you'll see there it says reimbursement from bond proceeds. So, if we get any type of billings from the architect or from the CM here in the next couple months that we need to pay, we can go ahead and pay that and then we reimburse the the general fund when we sell these bonds. Uh so that's that's also what this resolution is doing for us. I want you to be aware of it so when it comes when it comes to you in 2 weeks, we [snorts] need you to pass this and put it in motion uh so we get a sale ready for September. >> So I I
042don't want to be like too gambly, but like could we could we get the full amount and then invest it for the next 2 and 1/2 years? >> Well, there's a thing called arbitrage. Okay. So if we make more money in interest than we pay, we get to give it to the IRS, 100%. >> So the answer is we don't want to do that. Right. But but if we make more, does that mean we can do better improvements? >> No, if if we if we make more, we give it to the IRS. It's it's it's that simple. >> Okay. The answer is no. Thank you for that. >> [laughter] >> I'm like the >> hockey rink. We can't make a profit. >> Go ahead, Matt. >> So um what are the the transaction costs on
043each each time we go to do a bond sale? Cuz it's what, 50 50 39? Is kind of we're thinking three sales? >> I I actually will defer to to Shelby. She got those numbers. Is there a flat fee for each time we sell bonds? So if we do multiple sales, we'd have more cost? >> Uh yes, that is true. >> Shelby, you're going to need to come up to >> Yeah, do you want to come up to the table? Good to have you as a guest. I was just going to pull up the facilities maintenance bond that we did most recently for an example, even though that's different. So there is um sort of tiered pricing that goes along with each um uh issue. So you have the rating fee, you have our fee,
044you have the bond fee, and then you have some um general uh county fees. And so if If think of the $20 bond that we um issued uh uh recently, I guess my data on that. Um that total fee was um 133,000. So, there is some additional costs associated with it, but when you talk about sort of a 5% interest rate on 139 million, you're more than making up for that in terms of how much additional you can um save in terms of levy dollars. >> Yeah, and I guess cuz [clears throat] that was my next question um depending on the cost, um do we save more on those the interest costs by splitting it up into more than three? Cuz how how quickly are we going to need $50 million? And I guess even
045with a $139 million package that we're looking at, doesn't that provide us some leverage to work with our contractors and say, "Hey, you can wait on some of these things?" I mean, I understand materials will have to be purchased, but not right away, right? >> Well, most probably the contractors are not going to wait for the money, okay? We're going to pay as they do the project. So, as [clears throat] they incur costs, they bill us. I mean, they don't bill us for the whole thing, they just as they incur costs, we get we get billed. And as of right now, we're starting already, you know, the the architects in full steam ahead motion and our CM is in in motion, too. So, looking ahead starting about next month, we'll incur start incurring about $2
046million on a monthly basis just in those soft costs until we get ready to to actually do the bidding when it comes to, you know, late winter. >> Yeah, and I guess my con- my concern would be if we have $30 million sitting in the bank, right, for several months. >> We're going to be paying something. >> We're paying interest on that, and maybe there's a a negative side of doing six sales instead of three. >> Mhm. So, initially we had this set up as two bond sales. And so, since then we've gotten updated draft schedules from the construction firm, which makes it look like we could probably split it into three issues. And along with the you can't earn more than you um uh than you than it cost you in interest, if you
047hit certain spend downs according to what the IRS dictates, then you have some flexibility in in generating that additional interest. So, there is some flexibility in that you could earn a little bit more than you borrowed for if you follow certain spend downs. So, basically we've set this up so that we're attempting to sell a bond to coordinate with the spend down schedules associated Um [snorts] and then, you know, you have other things going on at the same time, right? So, you have facilities maintenance bonds that are being issued every other year. You have refundings that are on the radar. Um and so, the potential to overlap some of these um second and third and potentially a fourth bond, you know, if we just drag it out a little bit more and get you the
048last little bit um you know, closer to when you actually start to close up the project, then you generate the cost efficiencies on on a on an LTFM bond, for instance, that you wouldn't have before. Um so, I mean, there is a reason why you passed in May and we're not issuing today, right? Because you can cash flow some of this out of the construction fund and you're not sitting on monthly interest for 4 months before you, you know, we actually need the money. And, you know, summer may look a little different, right? You if if things look a little different, we're not going to say you have to have your money by, you know, October 15th. We have we have flexibility there, but part of what we do today um and setting this up
049for your authorization at the end of June is to identify to MDE what needs to get levied. So, that really I would say nothing but that levee is set in stone >> [laughter] >> um to start. We're going to you know as we're going to get updates from the construction schedule. You're going to earn interest. Maybe that allows us to sell a little bit differently, you know, wait another month um before we sell. We also authorized for 70 million, but um you know, I've we've Beth and I have run numbers at 60 at 65 just to but whatever we sell today or you know, right away dictates then how quickly you need the money on the second go-round. So, all of those things factor in. >> Then like but if we've got like how much
050do we have in the bank? 15? 12? How much do we have in our >> Oh, just in the bank by itself? >> For yeah, I mean for our unassigned fund balance or >> Our our our general fund's running close to 25 million dollars. >> Like can we use that in >> Yeah, that's what that's what that's that's all our purpose. So, we can use that money temporarily until we do the sale and then we'll reimburse the general fund um with those funds. >> Question >> need >> How far do you want to go? How far do you want to use it? Like 5 million or down to like >> I I think we're looking at 5 6 million by the time we get the cash, yeah. >> Okay. >> And then how soon do
051we get the money once we I mean cuz you have to get the approval and we do get Do we like say when we activate it, funds are in our account like the next day? >> about a month. >> A month? >> Yeah, we're going to do um if we kind of lay this out, it would be um we present pre-sale or give you pre-sale estimates at the August meeting. We'd sell and you'd award at the September meeting. You'd have funds available on October 15th. So, we're a little bit bound by you know, the schedule of your authorization to to stay at a on the cadence of your schedule, but you know, so if you don't get it on the 15th, we'd have to wait till like mid-November and maybe that's too long. So, we
052have we have that's a little I guess inflexibility there. >> As part of this, do you guys do like interest forecasting and thinking where the market's going to be or trying to figure that out. >> Yeah, um we we have sort of preliminary runs at this point. Again, we're really looking at setting the levy in coordination with your LTFM plan to ensure that we hit the tax impact that you presented to the voters. That's what we're doing right now. Um and then as we get closer to August when we're doing our sort of rate analysis, that's where we'll start running it based on not just a rate but overall market conditions. So, are you going to be generating another premium? To what extent is that? Where are the you know, where are the interest rates
053going to be? And in some cases, because we are planning to issue this multiple um over multiple issuances, we've done different strategies overall of you know, we think we really have a a big positive to make [clears throat] this 10 years or we have a big positive make this 22 years. So that you know, when we come back in a year and a half, we'll be only to you know, we can plug in an 8-year bond, right? So, we're going to be doing all of that as we go. As we get closer. >> Do you also factor in like other schools that are selling bonds as far as you know, competitive advantage and timing? >> Uh not >> [clears throat] >> hugely. There's 11 billion dollars of um in the markets each week of municipal
054[clears throat] debt. Um the way we have it set up right now, um that August and September schedule is the same day that Ossio would be selling their 62 million dollars of bonds. I don't think it's really going to I think there's enough demand out there. So, I mean, I guess I'll put that out for you since you asked that you know, maybe we want to move it, but 62 million and and 50 or 80 or 70 million, um we've certainly sold more. So, it has to do with the block sizes, where the, you know, where the demand is, but >> When is Wayzata selling there? >> [laughter] >> Um, Wayzata is also selling right around that time, but they're they're splitting up into multiple issuances as well. Um, well, I'll look it up. Let
055me see where we have that. Um, they they'll be selling ahead of you. They'll be selling a month ahead of you, I think. >> Is there value Is there value in paying things like ahead of time? Like at least the not the labor, but at least the materials. Cuz we if we get a bid back, they would probably know we're going to need XYZ of this and that and that. And and I'm just I'm imagining if you're going to buy it a year from now, there might be a 3.6% increase. And so it was like does it make sense? And but but again, if you take out the loan, you're paying interest on that for the duration of the by the time you need it or not. I don't know. >> It's kind of a
056trade-off, right? >> Yeah. You either pay more interest or you get a better deal on the >> I'm not asking for financial advice, but I think there's a new Fed chairman. And so does that play a part in like what do you think it's going to look like in November but you're just moving to a different house and like >> [laughter] >> I would defer to your lawyer. >> [laughter] >> I can tell you what the taxes are going to be. >> I have a a quick question. When will we we as the board start to see the contracts or the proposed contracts for the different, uh, subcontractors, contractors? >> Oh, you're going to you're going to see um, it it pretty much all come to you in one Well, we'll probably do it more
057than one package, but um, until we get the specifications written out, it it's going to be, you know, like January, February before you see any type of bids come to you. >> Of next year? >> Yeah. >> So, then I guess >> [clears throat] >> So, what's going to be done between >> 50 million dollars. >> Natural stuff. >> Um The architects don't work for free. Okay, yeah, our our I'm 50 million I think we're We might be running over. >> We we are looking at two to two and a half million dollars on a monthly basis for all our soft costs in through this fall. Then when we then when we do the the bidding Yeah, some of those some of those contractors are going to want money immediately to buy materials. Um so
058that money will go pretty quick as we get into the spring. >> [clears throat] >> I can say we don't know what those numbers are until we till we get there. >> So it seems like our calendar for this project is falling in line with other like projects for other school districts or like we're not out of the norm in how we're doing this in other words. >> We are in the norm, yeah. >> We're out of the norm? >> No, we are. >> We are in the norm. >> Yeah, I mean I I feel like I think I have to respect the expertise here in the room of like here's how you drive forward a project like this and I think the questions are good. Um I just don't think I know better. So
059I'm I'm looking I want to make sure that we're selecting you and the right firms to make these decisions with us. I really want to rely on your expertise. >> Yeah, and thank you I guess ahead of time for the flexibility because if we do, you know, have conversations in your fund balance I mean right about that time where you'll have preliminary audit numbers and you'll know what's in your fund balance and you were sitting on, you know, the 20 million from the LTFM so at some point, you know, you just you will just want the funds and and the regular accounting to go with the um the the exact um amount of money that you have to to allocate towards this. But if we can push back a month, I mean I don't I
060don't think it's going to hurt and I think it, you know, again, it'll save a month of interest cost on $70 million and if we can lower it to 65, you know, I think all of those things are worthwhile. >> [snorts] >> Um, but, you know, the other side of the coin is while we're trying to balance all of those things, you will be earning 5%, you know, on $70 million. So, we really want to maximize the the interplay between making sure you earn all of that cuz you can spend it right back on the project um, and and being able to keep it and not send it back to the IRS. >> What do you mean? I know it's really hard to tell maybe, but what do you think will be our rate on
061these bonds? At least initially. >> Four and a half, four I mean, they're continuing to go up. I don't think the Fed has um, give and you know, even with the change over, I don't think there's any indication that they're going to lower interest rates and so, um, you know, it sort of goes to the overall demand in the market at that time and you know, we'll we'll keep an eye on that. >> Mhm. >> Um, you know, we've It's nice to have the flexibility of the 70 million cuz we could we could just move, you know, that number up or down by a little bit at the time. Um, move the number not over the 70 million, but right, you know, if we're estimating 65 go to 70. My my biggest example was when
062rates were lower and we anticipated selling 20 200 million for White Bear Lake, we ended up selling 250 because you know, rates were low and they were paying no interest on that and and there was also So, it's you can't time the market, but you can situate the district in the best possible scenario. >> Um, can you provide maybe not some peace of mind, but just like what is the I joined when we were wrapping up Highview Elementary and the talk was like, "Oh, this was 45 million or 50 million." And and I and I don't know exactly where we ended at. Did we I don't know if it ended up being 55 million or something like Can you share with us what was that experience like? Was there cost overruns? Uh because this particular
063project was what? 3 years? Is that >> I believe Highview came in under budget. >> Did it come in under budget or over budget? >> Well, we we we had to make changes, right? That was right in that incredible growth of of inflation costs for construction. >> Lumber was super expensive. >> So, the first first estimates that came forward were over the amount of money that we had available to do the building. So, we had to go back and uh um re-engineer the building a little bit to get the cost down to fit within the funds we had. Once we did that, we did we did come within budget, but we did have to make have to make some changes to the building to make sure we were under budget. >> It came in ahead
064of schedule. I think that's something came in that was really quick. It came in ahead of schedule. >> Anyway, we got that all Yeah, yeah, yeah, cuz the building was actually done >> Yeah. >> early summer, right? We didn't need it till September. So, it was great cuz we had time to move in and get the furniture in and everything turned out really great. So, we did have to make some adjustments on the front end to make sure we made it through. >> Cuz the cuz the levy amount is the levy amount. We can't ask for more. >> Right. >> And so, like what's lumber going to be like in 3 years from now or 2 and 1/2 years from now? No no one's going to know. But but I'm just saying it's a it's
065a long project and so, I think it's good to have some flexibility of how much cash you you pull out, but also there there's cost savings now. I think in the airline industry, don't they buy gas They buy oil like 9 months in advance or or year and a half in advance and and that sort of rate. So, I don't know. It's it's a big project. So, >> We sort of leave that I mean we leave that to the construction firms. I think they build in a lot of that. There was a um a period of time where we were doing a lot of HVAC projects and they they were [snorts] wanting to buy all of that immediately before like the tariffs went into effect. >> And so they are monitoring that for purchases ahead
066of time and when they provide a draft schedule to the district >> we all know it's >> It's included >> It's going to be wrong, right? It's going to be >> It's usually the contractor that's buying the materials and then billing you for it cuz otherwise if we're trying to order it they don't they don't get their markup on it and then they're >> And there's So if you bought it, you don't pay taxes. If they buy it, they do pay taxes and but they can buy a quantity and so there's a whole strategy there. >> So Shelby, did you say October 15th is when you would come back and that what you're thinking of right now? >> In the current schedule, we would provide pre-sale estimates at the August meeting um and award we'd
067ask you to award at the September meeting and then it takes a little bit of time to close and you'd have funds in your bank account on October 15th. >> And so if you felt like something was shifting would that necessitate an emergency meeting or anything like that or is it not something that >> I don't think we could move that fast in terms of shifting. We would either um what we want to do is make sure we're not sort of aligned exactly with when the FOMC meets or you know other big big points like that but or um if there was a presidential election, right? We don't want to be right on that date. So um by August we'll we'll know if we want to push back a month or >> Well, >> [clears
068throat] >> we're not doing any construction during >> the school season or during when school is in session, right? >> That's where they're making a lot of their purchases but >> so we'll we'll we'll be doing things that we can do that don't affect actual classroom. >> Yeah, but like >> So they'll be additions that the additions will we'll try working on those before school's out. Yes. >> Yeah, right. >> Otherwise we'll never be done. And we'll work right through the winter. >> Okay. Any other questions? Okay, thanks so much, Shelby. What? >> I was I was saying we should start >> I mean, if you're going to work through the winter, you might as well but never mind. That's you guys' own schedule. >> I'm good. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um
069moving on to the preliminary fiscal 2017 budget. All right. >> Make this thing up. >> Okay, um well, we're going to go back to the fiscal fiscal year 2017 budget. We talked about it a month ago with a kind of a first um wash across it. I do want to thank um some of my staff are here tonight. Um Jill Downey, she's been with us for a long time. She's now our director of finance. And uh Jackie Dulac, she's our our manager of our our finance manager. I want to thank thank both of them. Um incredible amount of hours of work has gone into putting this budget together. When we when we look when we look at putting our budget together, it actually starts about September. If you remember back talking about our levy back
070in September, you know, that's for the next school year, so 9 months out um before we do that. But our main work happens happens during the winter right after we get back from from break. Um we'll we'll give you our 5-year um projection, what we really think's going to happen to that budget over the next few years, and then we'll start going through detail um of our budget. And that process is we go meet with every single department, every single principal in in the school district, and look at what their needs are. Do Do we have a big changes? We have some real pressures somewhere? And we'll talk about that here in a little bit, but you'll see like in teaching and learning area, we did make some changes there going into next year and
071get some increases for things they really needed. Um so, we feel good pretty good about that. I feel good about the the budget. It's a conservative budget, but at the same time, if you um turn to page 12 out of the book I um passed out. And there you can see that our projected unassigned fund balance percentage to be at 8 and 1/2% for June 30th of 2027. Um you see it's a little bit lower than we talked about a month ago as we really started fine-tuning what what's happening in this budget, but we feel very good and very I mean I this I don't think we'd ever come in below this. As I say, it was a conservative budget, so I feel good good about what we're looking at when we look at our
072unassigned continuing to increase even though it has slowed uh quite a bit. Now, if you want to move back to page five just real briefly talk about our enrollment. Our enrollment, as we talked about the last couple years, has has slowed quite a bit. Well, not very long ago we saw 3% increase, which was just unbelievable, and we were really um looking at some pressures on our buildings, but it has slowed. Now, the pressures that were that were going to see at our middle schools are still there. Those kids are already in the elementaries and moving forward. Okay, so even though our our enrollment slowed, it's not going to slow in our middle schools. So, for next year for for uh 26-20 27, we're looking at a number of uh 12 12,130 students. Um so,
073we've updated this number since we talked, you know, last fall. So, we watch this on a monthly basis. Uh I actually watch it more than that, but um really looking at what's what's happening with it because I I don't want to bring you a budget that's going to be way off at the end of the year. Okay. >> So, you're only projecting we're going to have 26 markets next year. >> We're going to Yes. And what we're watching it right now we're not seeing that big growth happening at our at our elementary schools at all. >> But that's good because we don't want to over >> Right. >> over predict like how many students we're going to have because Minnesota's a reimbursement state so we'll pay for all those kids regardless of whether they're here
074or not and then we have to be reimbursed so it's it's better to be >> Okay. Well, and and that's where we had that little bit of a you know, issue a couple of years ago when we were seeing those 3% increases. Well, that's what we built into the levy and by time we got the money from the levy well, then we didn't get 3% we got quite a bit less so that's why we had that $2 million kind of give back really what it was we give back to the taxpayer because we we weren't eligible to take it. Okay. Okay, now let's so talking about levy let's skip to >> Hey Bill, can I mean the numbers again just cuz when you say we're looking to add like 26 kids total but but again
075for for those that might be listening we had a lot of high school students graduate I think it was about what 1,100 or something like that. >> No, plus or minus. >> 900? >> Yeah, about 900 a little over 900. >> Smaller classes here, right? >> Yeah, it was a smaller class. >> Yeah, smaller classes here. All right, and then the incoming first graders or kindergarten kids is about is it the same 900 or is it lower? >> They're smaller. >> So that's where we're seeing some shrinkage because the graduating class is larger than our kindergarten class coming in. That's why we're seeing the very small increase in the total >> Okay. >> going forward. >> Got it, got it. >> Are we finding there's some districts that talk about that especially with more expensive
076homes that families don't move in till later elementary. So are we are we finding that or are kids enrolling in Like do we have children starting in kindergarten and staying all the way through or are we finding there's like these times where oh no, now we have a surge of fourth or fifth graders or Do you know what I mean? >> Well, I guess I can't speak to that directly. >> Yeah. >> Um, but if you look back just a couple years, we had our kindergarten classes were 850 and higher. >> Yeah. >> This past year was less than like 800. >> Yeah. >> But we are projecting 801 801 for uh for this fall. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> It just seems odd. >> [clears throat and cough] >> When you have, you know,
077600 new units going into the city. >> You you >> You see the houses going up. >> Here's Here's what >> It it will it will balance out the the your your K in and your seniors graduating is the first check number that you need to do. >> Yeah. >> But I will relentlessly push the uh the number at what the cohorts cohort survival tells us. And if we are under, that's okay as Director Baker said. If you if you overestimate that and you're wrong, >> Mhm. >> that's the gamble you don't want to take because you will pay it back and it stays in your system for two fiscal cycles. >> Yes. >> And you don't want that ever. So, we could come out higher than 12 130, but if we're building our budget
078and we're reporting to MDE, we need to be as uh conservative without super understating that, of course. But that's why I use a cohort survival assessment and um I'll just remind everybody we we triangulated that number this year by going to three different sources. Um and I'm very confident we're we're pretty close. We're not going to I we won't be under. We are more likely to get more kids, but the money will follow. >> I I just want to acknowledge one last thing. On page 12 the total general fund balance is about 27 million, but the unassigned balance is about I'm sorry, 27 million, but the unassigned balance is projected to be about 19.2. And so that would be put us that would be putting us at about 8 and 1/2%, which is what I
079think our fund balance policy is is targeting. Um the overall expenditures for our school district uh just for the general fund and then there's then there's there's six others uh is about 226 million. And ideally we want roughly 10% in there. So we want about 22.6 million dollars in our savings account. And and we're targeting to be about 19.2 uh at the end of next year. And so I just wanted like you know, when you look at graph at the graph on page 12, uh fiscal year 23, we were at 0.7% and then we're and now we're we're almost going to be targeting at about 8.5. And then hopefully maybe the following year we'll be we'll be at 10. Now again, 10% which sounds like a great number and it's about 22 million dollars and
080people folks might say, "Oh, that's that's a lot of money." Well, that's literally only 3 months worth of of cost uh of runway for us. So that if we don't get any money from the state, we don't get any money any money for whatever reason, um you that that money will only last us literally 90 days and that's it. And so the 10% number is still probably on the on the lower end. You probably would want it a little bit higher still, but at least the general rule of thumb is, you know, 10% or greater and we're definitely marching in that direction. So good job. I'm super excited and uh peace of mind from 0.7% to 8 and 1/2% which is fantastic. I I I hear other news about other school districts cutting I think
081Prior Lake had they I think they've got a levy that they're going out to the market for in this coming November but it's good to be able to say hey, we're much more financially well off. We're not 100% we're not we're not there yet but we're getting close very very close. So good job. >> I think moving our policy from a five to a 10% reserve was a strategic thing in line with peers. So that's a big change too I think in the last year. >> But that but just because we have that much money in the bank and obviously we're collecting interest and that interest helps fund other operations of of what we're at and we've got that um uh that balance in in the scenario where if we needed to use it to
082start the the construction projects early we've got that flexibility. We wouldn't have had that three years ago. There's no way. And so it definitely comes in handy. Um but that doesn't mean that we are at the optimal level of tax collection to ensure that our education delivery is where it needs to be. And so uh when we when we get to that that time and whether it be the summer or sometime we should we should really discuss because we have some additional tax authority if we need to consider that for future opportunities. So Whatever teaching and learning wants we can we should have a conversation about that. >> Wait, in special education? >> [laughter] >> Okay. Oh Matt has a question. >> Yeah. I might be getting ahead of ourselves. Are we are we up
083to page 12? I'm looking at separate here. >> I was going to jump to page 40 just for a minute just so you can see the levy. >> Okay, you can see the change in the levy. It I mean it is a rerun. We talked about this last September and we okayed it in December, right? But you see there on the front on the top side the unassigned components, you see that our increase is $1.3 million from our levy for fiscal '27. So I just see that's a positive positive sign that puts us in good shape. Now, we will jump back now to page 11. >> Well, I'm sorry. Can you Can you explain that? The 1.3 that was for the levy that was passed in November. I'm sorry, help me understand. Not not the
084bond. >> No, this This is our the regular school levy that we do every single year. >> Yep. >> Okay, this page 40 is all the components that go into that levy. >> Yeah. >> I think there is some confusion sometimes with the public of we know we're going out for a levy for a vote and then there's the annual levy and kind of how those things are related of course. >> Well, if if you look at the top portion, the very top portion, it says unassigned. That is voter approved. Okay? So all of our all of our the referendum piece are our operating referendum. >> Yeah. >> That's that top third of the page. The The next pieces, those are not voter approved. Those are pieces that the state of Minnesota allows us to
085levy for to cover these expenses. So you see the the A&I grant. You see the safe schools money. Okay? Vocational reemployment Q comp. You know, those things are things that we can do where we don't have to go ask every single year for this for the community to give us authority to do that. >> And for clarity, it's item number four, referendum. Or is that >> That's the operating referendum. >> So 24.9 million is what our community members have voted to say we will pay more to fund our education system. And then of that 24.9 million, it is part of 58.6 million. So roughly about less than 50% uh you know, comes from property taxes uh to fund our school. But our community members have voted to approve uh roughly 25 million. Now, if they
086voted no, then we'd have $25 million less to work with. We still get 25 million cuz that's a state mandate uh to to levy our community. >> pieces, yeah. >> And so, all the 58 million that comes from property taxes, 226 million is what it costs to run our operations. And so, we get the other half or the the other 3/4 generally from the state of from the state of Minnesota. >> Correct. >> And that's all >> all depicted in those pie charts. >> pie charts, yep. Yep. >> Okay. I guess the only other thing maybe just to to when we talk about whether voter approved or not, if you look at the debt service piece, that's where the money comes out for like what we just passed. It's money for the buildings, and that
087is voter approved. So, that very bottom piece, the debt service, that's all voter approved. Okay. Now, let's jump to page 11. And here, we get a snapshot of what's going on with our revenue. Again, you'll see that our our state sources, and that's going to be money that comes from the state of Minnesota, not through their tax levy. Okay. That's So, we got 148 149 million from the state of Minnesota. Again, again, our property taxes are at 59 million. Our federal sources, they're at 3.2. >> Can I make a recommendation just for the future? And maybe you guys don't need that, but like it says property taxes, which is the third item under under revenue on page 11. And it says 50 59.1 million. I'd love to be able to like break that out and
088say 50 like property taxes mandated, property taxes referendum. >> That's That's page 40. >> Yeah, well, no one's going to get to page 40. That's the issue. I mean, I would because we're we're spending 226 million dollars, and uh and while $59 million is coming from taxes. Only $25 million is approved by our community. And so, while that's a I I think that's a a reasonable number to make sure people understand that yes, we are paying if you know, your property taxes do pay for schooling and uh uh almost roughly 10% is approved by referendums. And if you and so I I don't know. It's not a high It's It's a high number, but it's not a high number, 10%. So, I don't know. That's an observation. >> Have you been hearing a lot of
089like questions about that? >> I have not. >> Oh, okay. I'm just curious like >> No one probably is asking questions about it, but I I'm just wondering if anyone makes it to page 11, they're like, "Huh, property taxes. We pay $59 million. Well, is it $59 million referendum or $59 million or what? How do I How do I vote no for this?" And the answer is you don't really don't. You get to vote no for only for only $25 million of it. If you want to If you want to vote no, the other $25 million is demanded, right? >> Or you can vote yes. >> I mean or you or yes, or you can vote yes, but I it's Yeah. It could be It could be misleading is what I'm saying. >> So, you're
090saying people think that they're paying $59 million but the community is paying $59 million. >> board has approved $59 million of Yeah. >> But they are paying $59 >> Yeah, they are paying $59 >> They are They are paying $59 but they're choosing to pay 25 of >> mandated versus optional. >> Yes. Yeah. They're choosing to pay They voted to pay half of the 59. And the other half, it's they don't have a choice. According to the state. >> That's correct. >> Okay, let's move on to the expenditure portion of this same page. You see here um we broke it all by object so you can see that our salaries and wages now are up to 111 million. Our benefits there are at almost 55 million. Um Purchase services really no no change. Um we
091if you look at the uh the uh PowerPoint that I sent out, you'll you'll see the changes and the percent change. So, when we look at the um expenditures, uh our wages and salaries are up 2.4% almost 2.5. Our employee benefits are up 9 and 1/2%. Of course, that's because of our insurance situation. Um purchase services up only 1.8. Our supplies and materials are up 12. Again, a big change in our teaching learning and the uh some of the materials that we're buying. That's why you see an increase there. Our capital expenditures, you see an increase there of uh $29 million. That is because we next year we're buying new devices for the students. Uh so, that's a big big jump. >> million. You said 29. >> 29 >> Oh, 28%. >> 29%. 4.5 million.
092Okay. Okay, if we move the page, >> Yeah. >> I >> That's fine. >> I mean, depending on how far you're going to go. Um Down on on page 11, proceeds from sale of assets, there's finance purchase proceeds, $5 million. Um refinancing devices for $5 million. >> Yeah, the the [snorts] devices um we've had um the way we've financed those in the past is a is a lease purchase. >> I'm looking at the left column. >> So, that's why you're seeing a $5 million increase on the capital piece on top. >> Mhm. >> And then we're we're we're borrowing that money, so to speak, the $5 million below. >> So, you're counting that kind of as as revenue to some extent. >> Well, it's other financing sources. That's why it's not in the revenue line.
093Um so, the one thing not to concern about, you see that our revenue is $220 million, but our expenditures are $226. Well, except that we have this money down here that we're bringing in that balances all that out. >> So then I guess what's the What are the hard costs for the $5 million? The essentially the finance purchase price of the $5 million for the year. Cuz it kind of cancels it out, right? But we're paying interest on the $5 million. >> lease is at this point approximately $5 million. We don't have the exact numbers cuz we haven't bought the We haven't gone through that process of actually getting the quotes yet. Um but that's approximately what we paid last time. >> Okay. Yes. >> So I have two things I want to point out
094here because we obviously just had a levy, so there was a lot of financial questions that were asked about our budget and making sure that we're being um frugal with with how we spend things, but I I guess I was kind of drawn to that we had salaries at 111.2 million and then benefits at 54.7, and I was doing the math, which is approximately 73% of our general fund goes to salaries and benefits. Is that correct? >> Oh, yeah. If you look at it on your on your sheet um on the PowerPoint, >> Yeah. >> I have the percentages broke down. >> Oh, you did that. Well, wonderful. See, I was trying to like do the math over on the side, but I just think that's important to point out that the majority of our
095budget is people. >> Mhm. Oh, absolutely. >> 73% of our general fund expenditures are salaries and benefits. And then the other thing that I noticed because you have this so broken down from 4 years previous, we can look at like the employee benefits started at 42.9, and they've grown to 54.7. So that's like about 30% close to um how much things have grown just on the benefits side, but then I think that brings out that um legislation that was passed with the um Family Medical Leave >> Oh, that's in here. Yeah. >> Correct, right? Yeah, I'm just I'm just wanting to point those things out because these are things that we have inherited as far as like expenses for the district and these are things that are obviously impacting our budget. So. >> Mhm. >>
096Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, I mean to that point you're looking at nine a $9 million increase year over year just for employee related costs. >> Right. >> And we're only getting 2%. No, we're only getting 25 new kids, you know, so it's not like we're getting a ton of I mean what is that? Quarter of a million dollars? 250? 280,000 dollars for the new kids? And so >> Yeah, but it's not a big number. You're correct. >> So so what I'm trying to say is like we're not really overspending. It's labor cost. You know, like >> But we negotiated the labor costs. >> Right, but we can't just not get the raise. Like right, when the majority of your budget is people and then some of these things are told to us what
097we're going to provide and how that we need to have some of these, you know, the Family Medical Leave Act, different paid leaves. Um it impacts what we can offer because that's already taken out of our budget. >> Yes. I guess I mean my concern overall, I mean going to page 12, you're looking at a total expenditures are going up $14 million, you know, 6 and 1/2% increase year over year on our total expenditures and our income is not going up you know, tracking with that at all. >> Yeah, and that's and then we've talked about that in the past. That's one reason why that increase in our fund balance has has decelerating >> Mhm. >> because our costs are going up faster than our expenditure than our revenue. >> Mhm. Well, I mean at
098this rate you're lucky to have any increase. >> Yeah, it's >> And you're on a signed >> Our our our budgets become pretty tight and it's a little more than we anticipated this last year because of our insurance costs and the added um cost from the state for the leave. >> Yes. That's where all these things become important to monitor in terms of some of the unexpected insurance costs and things like that that we don't know if it's going to be a year over year thing or just that was an anomaly and so >> Yeah, and hope it >> We're on a close watch. >> We watch it very closely. >> Yeah. Okay, um I want to briefly talk about the other funds. So, I move to page 14. You see here the student nutrition,
099very healthy balance has been for quite a while. Again, it's it's behaving in a way that's very positive, so they're very healthy. Move on on to page 16, you see um community edge >> about that? Back you up. Um I see in the fund overview, just information about the increases. One is due to um probably the collective bargaining agreement, the 2% hourly wage increase. But then, also the planned 5% increase due to the current war going on. Are we expected to see, because of the war What page 13? >> Page 13. >> So, they're estimating that food will cost 5% more because of what's happening in >> Yeah, and that's that's that's mainly well, it's mainly due to fuel cost and delivery cost. >> So, are we expecting that like with the construction that we're
100going to have? I mean, really every good that we purchase potentially could have that. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> So, then do you wait and see if prices go down, or if you buy now and see prices go up? It's like >> Well, just always remember too, if you're starting if you're talking about supply chain, which is what you're talking about, then you're also talking about hardware goods. Um if that's not properly timed, you have a storage cost fees. >> Yeah. >> Um so, the the idea to purchase them early to get we'll call it optimal pricing, will get eaten up in your storage side of things. So, it's just-in-time and pay-as-you-go typically is what professional supply chain people are trying to accomplish on the regular uh so that you have
101what you need when you need it and you're not paying storage costs and you're not paying too early too soon cuz that that market shifts, too. And I I know we don't want to gamble too much, but I think that's another element of this that we have to consider. And fuel costs right now because of the the uh straights, uh that's that's a barn burner. And it's going to affect our project as it's affecting our transportation costs. >> Yeah, it stood out here when you wrote about it, but I know the food service fund typically can absorb it based on the healthy balance it's carried, right? But not so much in the other categories. >> the other ones. >> Yeah. >> Are we Are we still looking at where we need to spend down more
102in the food service >> Well, the state of Minnesota hasn't put that hard deadline in yet. They keep talking about bringing it back, but they haven't. But we know that it used to be 3 months of expenditures and we're about a half million over that. So, we're very close. Um I'm not concerned about it at this point. >> can't move that money. >> Yeah, I can't I can't use it somewhere else. >> You know, my my my daughter has asked if if if they can get two helpings of Italian donuts during lunch time and if I can >> and not have to pay for the second >> have to pay for the second. Just saying. >> I I'd be all about that one. >> But 4.3 million is is is very healthy. So, yeah. But
103we can't spend it on anything else. >> on the food >> No, furniture. >> and furniture >> I'd make my own furniture >> food service >> That's over now. >> item >> So, we can't do it any longer. >> Right. The furniture thing is out. >> But we did optimize that. >> And we bought a lot of new lunch containers. >> Okay. >> Let's move to page 16. Just briefly, um community service, again there um fund balance had fallen down to zero and a little below uh right after the pandemic. Uh they've been going along kind of flat Um looking at a small increase in their fund balance again for next year. >> I'm looking at bullet three and on page 15 where there is a total expenditure projected to increase by roughly $427,000 but
104that's also because we have been included the staff of the small wonders preschool to the teachers contract and so that was expected. I'm glad that was called out here because again there's value in having them in in the agreement that they're in now but it does impact the financials. >> That's a good point. >> I didn't realize it would be yeah. >> And they're not on the salary schedule. They have a different schedule. >> They have a different schedule. >> But the benefits I think is the main change. Is that right Brenda? What do you say? Sorry I know you're >> I'm sorry. >> With no with the small wonders. >> That's correct. >> They're not on the salary they're not on the matrix like regular but the benefits is where they increase really hit
105for that group. >> And it's uh >> Benefits weren't much different. >> Yeah the benefits would have been the >> minor >> They were close to the same but it was the there was a significant increase in the salary. >> Oh okay. Yeah. >> It was like almost like 15 $20,000 Well maybe it it it varies based on the the step so. >> Okay. >> But it it was an increase and uh and they were added onto the EML contract so. >> Good. >> 8000 >> Okay, move on to page 17. This is our building construction fund. Here you can see we're expect excuse me expecting [clears throat] about $30 million in expenditure cost. About 10 of that is our LTFN so 20 is the start up of our new project on the middle schools.
106Page 18 is our debt service. Again this this fund is very healthy. It puts us in a good place when we borrow these uh these funds. We'll be able to use some of this fund balance on our first payments of our new debt. It will help our tax payers. Okay, >> [sighs] >> 21. Of course, this is our internal service fund, which is our health insurance, dental insurance. Um you know, we're projecting um a small a small change in this year, and and looking about the same for next year. When we're watching the expenditures go through as of now, um we're we're we're not expecting a big um change or a big improvement. Um so, the change now that we put in place um on the premium side is going to help us so we
107don't fall any longer. So, if they continue to watch this and start building that fund balance back up. Okay, um pages 22 to 37. This is more detail we put in here. Um you can read it at your leisure, but it's broke down by every single building. You can see what's happening with the enrollment. You can see what's happening with with the costs over the last 5 years. I get an idea of where we're spending the money in those buildings. Um we jump to 40 41. This is where we've broke down the costs more. So, they're broke down by each program area. You can see the changes both last year and this year in the amounts. When you look at total regular instruction, I see an increase there of $2.7 million. That's about 3% increase
108in our general instruction. Special education, we're looking at a 8.3% increase. Um instructional support, there we got some like we talked earlier, some bigger numbers. We have 16.6%. Um um really when we look at our curriculum costs and increases there. Um, after that we break it down one more one more level. You can see that inside each of the program then we're broke down by object. So, um, you can read that as you're at your leisure. So, you can see the changes on a very detailed basis. If we if we jump >> Maybe I'll come I'm sorry. I'm still stuck on 21. That's FY21. Can I just quickly, uh, get clarity on on fiscal year 26 budget? You're So, this is a health insurance fund. >> Yes. >> And last year we spent $37 million
109and that fiscal year ended was it end of June? Is it June 30th? >> Well, we actually lots lots of our claims run into the summer months. Okay? >> So, if you were had service with your doctor in June, but we didn't pay for it till July or August, that's included in the previous year. >> So, so then my question then is in the fiscal year 26 budget, this this current cycle which ends in June in in in a few weeks, um, are we really targeting $36.7 million in spend? >> Yes, we are. >> Okay. And and so that's with estimating what we've spent today plus whatever we think is coming in June plus whatever that might trickle in in July and August? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, so 25 wasn't an outlier then. If
110that's what I mean. >> Well, I Again, I'm going to bring you a conservative budget. I'm not going to assume that it's going to be a lot less, even though I wish it was, right? And it certainly can be, but we do not we do not know. >> Right. But but based on what you know as of last month, so at the end of May, you've got X dollars of spend that you have already had and then whatever you're forecasting in June compared to I mean, I'm assuming you I'm assuming whatever we did last year is probably what is forecasted in June plus three or five or 10%. And then whatever you're adding in July and August as those claims trickle in and into the summer months. And then when you add it all that
111together, you're looking at 36.7 million. >> Correct. >> Now, with the hope that maybe whatever happens in July and August don't trickle in cuz that was the outlier, right? So, we don't really know when the outlier we don't know if it if last year was an outlier until >> We're not going to know until we get to August. >> Until we get to August. >> Where are we at right now? I mean, do you have a >> We're >> a May 30th number? >> Yeah, when when we when we look when we look at right now, it's behaving exactly it did the year before. >> So, we're right on line. >> We're like 30 million? >> Yeah. >> And and and so so if you look at not last year, but the year before that,
112where we at this is at the same. So, roughly 30 million as well. So, so whatever >> 24 >> Yeah. I'm just curious if if the pattern is still the same that we had previously previous years. >> Yeah. You know what I mean? >> Our pattern right now is the same as previous years. What we saw different last year was the summer months. >> July and August. >> They were really large. >> Got you. >> Okay. >> So, we'll I said we'll keep we'll we'll keep you abreast of what's going on there, but we really won't know till we get to August really what's happening. >> Okay. >> Until we see until we see the claims that come in. >> So, the claims that we've already received the the revenue that we've already received this
113year cuz we didn't make any adjustments for for this year is >> Well, there was there was a there was an increase of 5%. >> 5% yeah. Yeah. But that was but that was enough to cover what we've historically have always had. And so, if there isn't a an outlier in in July and August, then we should be then it would cover all the expenditures and we're fine. But that doesn't increase the fund balance for >> No, it just keeps flat. >> No. >> Yeah, 5% was still factoring us losing 2 and 1/2 million dollars. So. >> Got it. Got it. >> Or no, 2.16. I'm sorry. >> And and again health care is health care. If you need it, go get it. It's hard to forecast, so we just don't know if July and
114August is going to be an outlier year. >> 41 Yeah, we're back. Yeah, 41. Yep. >> And there's nothing we can do the right now because we've already set the rate changes. It's already going into effect in July 1st. And uh uh and if if there is any uh expenditures that go above and beyond what we have in the fund balance for the health insurance fund balance, then the overages is covered by the general fund balance, which is the the uh the 19 that we have in in our pocket. So. >> Correct. >> So, we pay for it. Not we, but the school district pays for it out of our general fund balance. But, we do get that reimbursed when >> Correct. >> the health insurance fund balance gets back up. Okay? >> It would
115it would be like a temporary loan for the fund sick fund money, I mean. >> Okay. I mean, it'd come from another part of our budget. So, we'd still be paying for it. >> Well, no. It would It'd be in fund 20, so it'd still would come from future premium to pay for it. >> Future premiums, but then we're just we're giving them a loan. >> We should collect We should collect interest. >> We probably will. >> Can I ask a random question that Can I ask a random question? I'm just looking at um the north and south high school populations because I know we part of this in terms of future planning is really kind of thinking about high school in terms of our big class coming there eventually. Uh page 22 and 23.
116So, what I'm seeing is a very steady increase in population at north and a very steady decrease in population at south. So, I'm curious about that. And also, too, I'm just curious about the budgets for both schools given the differences of That's a big difference in population. >> Yes, north north is growing. >> North is growing. >> South is shrinking when it comes to enrollment. It's been For many years, it's practically the same number. It was unbelievable how close they were. But, last the year we're in and into next year, there's less at South. >> Do we need to re- Do we Do we need to redistrict high school? >> I didn't want to put that out there, so but Uh >> [laughter] >> but from a budgeting standpoint, we're spending $2,000 more per every
117South student. So, why wouldn't we just have more staffing at North to accommodate? >> It's It's It's It's the experience factor on your staff. Okay, we got more experienced people at South than we do at North, and they cost more. >> Yeah. >> So, then this goes back to like from a from a business or corporate lens, every department has a set budget, and then if you need however many resources, that's that's the budget you work with. >> Well, but this this I mean so right now >> Like you would give both >> what I hear what I hear you saying, like right now we're looking at 23, for instance. Many less students at North than South, but South had a bigger budget, which is not what we're seeing. But, you're saying that essentially we
118have >> We have more senior staff at South. >> Which you can't I mean, you can't move people exactly. >> Right, right. I mean, I I I think that's that's where um staffing allocation and budget allocations is I would assume have to be monitored and have some governance in place for that, because if you hire I mean, if you're a football team and you hire like the most expensive offensive lineman, and then you hire all five of them, like maybe you can't get a good quarterback, cuz all your money's spent. So. >> I just I'm trying to be thoughtful of this, because I think um we do have to start looking ahead, like not I'm not I'm not just concerned about the budget, but also these numbers and what they mean for potential bonds down
119the road for our high schools. Um and we've kind of talked about high schools, and so this is considering this development that's growing or happening by Walmart that is supposed to be really large, right? So that all of that is included in here, right? >> Well, these are actual numbers, right? There's no projection. These are These are kids that we've counted. >> Oh, so it's not counting the potential. >> There's We didn't speculate on new on new enrollment in the high schools. >> So that could look pretty >> These are actual >> depending on how that >> next year at North 5:30. >> It's a big class. >> Yeah. Yeah. These are kids that we actually counted their heads. >> Except the schools. >> Okay. >> Well, to member's point earlier about that that I
120feel like I know that's a mixed development down there, but there's going to be a lot of bigger houses that probably might pull bigger or older students potentially if but I don't know. >> Oh, that's speculation. I just I'm I was wanting to understand those changes. >> I think it's a reasonable logical If it's a $700,000 home, I mean you may you may not have a kindergarten. I don't know. So uh but you know currently I think you're right. I mean it's it is it is interesting to see the numbers where you're roughly spending the same dollar amount 21.5 million at both high schools, but Lakeville North does have 200 more students. And so while the revenue is I don't know if you need more staff. I'm assuming you would need more staff there, right?
121>> Yeah, we Yeah, we allocate We allocate staff numbers by number of students. >> Yeah, so if you have more staff at at North High School then if you just if you did the math, I would assume that the average cost of an FTE for Lakeville North would be slightly lower than Lakeville South just because there's more staff there, but the numbers are still the same. The dollar value is still the same. So then you actually have more experienced teachers at at Lakeville South. >> Do you anticipate Brenda whoever that kind of being cyclical with South though because everyone was hired at the same time when it opened, right? And aren't we kind of at the older end of that group now where they're just starting to retire? >> We had We had the majority
122of the staff came from when we were Lakeville High School. >> Yeah. >> There was a process by which teachers could apply to go to South when it opened. >> Okay. >> Um and and so there was quite a number of staff that that filled that building. And of course you want to have a balance of of newer teachers and more veteran teachers, but I think from the onset, I if I recall correctly, we had a higher percentage of the staff that was more veteran at that time. And they're still in the system, which is why you have uh why you have a a more veteran staff in that building is that they're all they're still there from when they came over. >> Yeah. >> Some of them are starting to retire now because obviously,
123you know, South has been open for a couple of two decades now. So um so you'll see that change over, but I think that's a result of So what happened is when all the teachers left Lakeville High School and went to South, then when North was established, all of those positions were filled then with less senior, less veteran staff. >> So would it would it be helpful for if there was uh an an another line item cuz on page 22 and 33 you got spending per student, which is 12,600 at at South and 10,700 at North. Do would you want to see that the average cost of an FTE and then you can kind of see the breakdown of what that looks like? >> I mean I hear Bill. I hear Bill saying that there's
124more senior staff. >> Yeah. >> I >> Okay. >> I Sorry, it was a random question partly because I'm also trying to think ahead. >> Um >> with these numbers. >> Thank you. >> Okay, then just briefly to uh finish up, if you move to page 51 and 52, that's all our all our capital um budgeting uh mainly our our LTFM. You see that there. Which we talked about last time. Page 53 and 54, these are mainly stat pages. Um these haven't been updated by MDE yet, so these are the same pages that were in the regular budget. They haven't changed yet. So, overall, when we bring this budget back to you um in a couple weeks Let me find my page here. Um overall, all funds, you see there our budget um our budget
125will be at $335 million uh with uh with an overall fund balance of all funds of 80 million. Um just at a 30,000-ft look at it. So, any other questions? >> I might be a question for Bowman, more out of curiosity. When on page 53 when you look at this rank of schools and St. Paul and Minneapolis are obviously big districts and they're also top one and two for revenue and expenditures. Expenditures make sense to me. And revenue, too, but in comparison to like Anoka or 196 is it just cuz the state is funding those districts more? Or how are they so high? >> they're city What What is that term uh city of the first class of first class legislation that governs them? >> Oh, yeah, they're special. Um and from a funding perspective,
126um the legislature has They're cities of the first class. So, there's that mechanism uh and I'd love to explain it to you, but >> Burnsville here, then, being third. Way down on the list. >> Yeah, they Well, the other thing, too, that I feel like doesn't get enough airplay is the the demographic breakdown of your student body is going to generate federal dollars at a rate that um uh is you know, something Lakeville can't if you want to call it compete, doesn't doesn't function under. I mean, our federal dollars was 2%. What is it What is it, Bill? I can't think of it. I know it's on one of the pie charts there. I want to say it's >> It's two or two and a half. >> Yeah, something like that. Um And then the
127other thing um Okay, 1.47, not even 2%. >> There you go. >> Thank you, Jill. And And the other thing is um City of the first class, you get a lot of federal support. I had the other one in my head and it's uh Yeah, it slipped away. You might remember it, but um If you see I think Anoka on a per ADM is lower than St. Paul and Minneapolis. um >> Yeah, it is. >> So, that I mean, there's some there's some interesting points there. >> Well, I feel like what I like about this chart is that it helps me think about from a funding perspective and size really why is that a Lakeville and Mounds View are kind of a trio in the sense of if we're going to compare money, how much
128is Mounds View or Waconia's money, we should be kind of in on par given the revenue that we receive. Like it it doesn't help us to compare to you know, I don't know. Or or Prior Lake or like cuz they're just getting different, very different amounts. >> Yeah, that's true. And I think we've tried to make that point before, but here's what the other thing is geography, right? Where do you sit on the map? >> Yeah. >> Or, where do you sit on the ground? Well, Farmington, Burnsville, Prior Lake, they're all around us, so uh then you got 196, which is a behemoth over there. >> Uh-huh. >> Um so, I mean, the a lot of times the comparison start becoming a little bit if you're comparing relational things versus financial things, you know, there's
129differences. >> That that kind of get into play there, so. >> Yeah, okay. >> Yeah, I like 53 cuz I think it's a good visualization and and I do appreciate that you highlighted and highlighting it in red, so that we know we we are the ninth largest school district in the state. And we uh generate >> Based on student enrollment, yes. Thank you. Yeah, based on student enrollment, almost, you know, 12,000. But, we are also the uh 18th uh in in revenue collection or tax collection. And so, while other schools are much higher, uh but, you know, it's we're we're not we're not in the top 10 in regards to revenue and we're not in the top 10 in expenditures. So, we're doing uh we are trying to be as optimal as we can with
130the revenue that we that we are receiving. Uh and ideally you'd be you'd want to be close to maybe to your enrollment count. Um I would love to see, and maybe this is just for another meeting in in the future for maybe a page 55 or something like that. Um it would be good to see in this kind of budget packet uh our referendum opportunities or our our our referendum schedule. Schedule, yeah. Uh and then what and what our capacity is because I believe >> That that's an easy That's an easy one to add to the budget book. Um I did remember what it was. Uh, free and reduced. Okay, so the populations and I can't speak for Minneapolis cuz uh well, I I do kind of know, but with St. Paul uh, and it's
131been a long time ago that I was there as a CFO, but we were 75, 76% free and reduced. Um, and we don't Lakeville doesn't play in that in that uh, circle very uh, not at those numbers. So, those are other things that that the in- the intentional design of finance, whether you're talking about Minnesota school finance or federal support to states uh, through um, finance mechanisms. Uh, all you know, that's changing and it always does. Um, but the supports are are intentionally designed and we're not so much benefiting from those. But, you know, that's not a value judgment. It's just that's that's why you see the numbers the way you do. >> Yeah. >> I also have some some questions and I think the board has been doing a lot of work around teaching
132and learning because I know when you look at these numbers, you automatically think, "How can we increase our financing?" Um, but I also feel like there's some deeper questions and reflection on some of these numbers about what are we doing within our district with like processes and procedures. Um, I love data. I keep data. I've got it back to like 2014 and and sooner. I told Bill I was so excited I could add another book to my collection. Um, so I have all my charts and I'm looking at all my data and I I was specifically looking at our enrollment growth from 2015 to 2024. And we grew by 1,072 students. But, our special education population grew by 502. So, we all know that special education is important. Um, and when I think about those
133numbers, how over half of our enrollment growth was connected to special ed. That doesn't mean that all of these students moved in that had disabilities. It just means that our special education growth was much moving more quicker than our overall enrollment. So, when I think about that, I go back to teaching and learning. Right? Because why are these students qualifying for special education? I don't think we're over qualifying students. I think that that's a direct correlation to what our students need, which is more intervention so that they're not qualifying for special education. Because we don't want this super expensive model. We want people We want students in the core. We want students accessing core education. And if we make our intervention system more robust across elementary and secondary, then we should see those special education
134numbers decline. Therefore, our special education money that we're spending would also decline because it's cheaper to have students within general education. Um, it's just it's just an expensive model. We don't want to pull kids out. You know, and and honestly, when your special ed numbers get that much where they're growing in that capacity, then it's not small small group instruction anymore. So, then you have to pull out because you can't serve kids in four different third grade classrooms with one teacher. They can't push in. They have to pull out. And then they're pulling them out of core. And then we're making them further behind by doing that. So, when I think of like philosophically, like looking at this data, I see things where I'm like, these are things that we can target. And I'm sure
135your mind's already going there cuz I see your wheels turning there, too. Of like things that we could do instructionally and procedurally and and build our programs up, which it which in turn, long term, is going to impact our budget in a positive way. But, anyway. >> So, you're saying like more up front? >> I know, I was going to say like I was curious to learn like and I know this is a little off the numbers, but to that point, like what is the relationship between the departments, teaching and learning, and student services to try to get at what Kim is addressing. I don't know if Michelle or Tracy you have perspective on that. It seems like you should be highly highly coordinated. >> For sure. Um our teams do work together. Um we
136have uh been working together around interventions, which I believe is what you're referring to. We are adding um three intervention specialists, one at each one of our um elementary not elementary, middle schools um for literacy for this school year. Um uh and we've been working with our uh student services department on what that model um actually looks like. So we've been engaged together for that. >> Thanks. >> And I'm glad we're adding three, but like there's five 600 kids. No, I'm sorry, there's a thousand kids in each middle school. And so one person in a thousand kids and not not everyone's going to need, but if you do 20% and you get that's 200 and then that you see 20% of the 20% of that 20% and then you're looking at 20 of them. I
137think that's the math. 40. >> But technically, there's tiers to that system, right? So you have tier one, which is our core, tier two, which would be like an intervention, and special ed would be tier three. Now, if they're coordinating together, then you would hope that from tier two to tier three, there's an intensification or maybe a different intervention because if we're using the same interventions in tier two and tier three, we're not going to see any difference when a kid moves into tier through tier three really. So I appreciate that, but then you also have to think like we should have that many people at each tier and so that we can >> And that costs money. And that costs money. And so this goes back to the the page that I'm requesting, which
138is page 55, which isn't here yet. But like maybe on the next round, how much are we like what's what are we collecting in tax revenue for referendums uh to offset that? Cuz then when I look at Edina, uh yes, they are 17th in the largest in in regards to enrollment, but they are the sixth in revenue tax collection at 19 19 at 19,700 and we're collecting 17500. That's a $2,000 delta. And so, if you if if we are if the community chooses and if we at the board agrees that hey, we should let the community decide, do you want additional taxes to go into education to pay for not just one but maybe five in our in each middle school. >> We did go out for that. Sorry. It's a feeder. We did go
139out for that and it did not pass in our community. >> there's new opportunity. Right. >> But what I also hear and I would be curious to know is or if you guys feel the same way that if we put money into interventionists at the primary level, so not secondary too, both but probably ideally primary level, do we see that come back? So it like what kind of investment are we talking about? Do we take a risk on that to um recoup that money in on the back end. Um and what kind of timeline that would take. >> Good question. >> Yeah, Matt. >> Well, in into that point, um and if you're going to ask for more money, I mean, are there studies? Is there any evidence that shows hey, if we have X
140amount of time at at tier one with an interventionist, we can get that kid so he has no services after one year or with a tier two where we can reduce them down to tier one which then requires less intervention time. You know, so we can cut down staffing costs. It might take I don't know, two years but there should be I would imagine somebody's probably studied this to figure out >> of data. Yes. >> Yeah, if they have this amount more time and then if we do the calculation to figure out, I mean, you still have to play it through the system but to Brian's point, if you're diluting them down and and I would argue that maybe it's more important at the elementary school level um because then they might not even get
141to >> They won't They won't need it. So, you're you're watering the flower early and making sure that it has a chance to grow and >> But otherwise, if are we really going to make it a dent in the system if it's just one interventionist? >> needed at secondary level because you'll have students that move in from other districts that haven't had access to the same level of curriculum that we have here or you have students that are moving in from other countries. >> because there's ideally there'll be less from the elementary going into the middle school. And so, ideally yeah. >> Possibly. >> The impact would be different, I think. >> That's I'm curious. >> It's a bigger investment given we're talking about nine elementary buildings versus three. >> We have interventionists at the
142elementary level. >> Should we say that first? >> I'm more at more adding in terms of need. >> But there's a reason you're proposing this model and I'm curious what that is. >> Yes. >> [laughter] >> Yes. So, adding the three at the um uh middle schools are tier three interventionists. Um we have had to give the CAPT test um to all of our the assessment to all of our students. And so, we're identifying the students that need different aspects of um uh literacy intervention along the way. And so, we want to start um small with this um because we want to make sure we can do it well. And so, we want to get to a place in implementation where we have it standardized that we're able to catch the students that we need
143to and provide the most um accurate supports for them. Our middle school principals have also committed to tier two interventions so that those students don't go from tier three back into the classroom, that they're supported to the next level down to tier two, and then they go back into the classroom. But we really want to focus on this model and see it through to implementation so that we know we can really do this well. And then we'll take the next step as to what more do we need in our system to be able to support the rest of our students. So this is a first phase or a first step into providing the right supports. We don't We want to go slow to go fast. We want to make sure that we can implement to
144a high level as we're adding people into our system. >> I would say I would also add to that it's not necessarily always about adding more people, although it's helpful, but a strengthening processes that we have in place. So in partnership too with continuous improvement department, really looking at our intervention process and who's around that table on a weekly or bi-weekly basis to be identifying which students need support, whether it's academically, socially, or behaviorally. So really coming back and strengthening that intervention process, too. >> Well, and then tying the intervention to the right the student to the right intervention because that CAPT data is very detailed. So then you know, like where the deficit is and how what you can use to help that student succeed. So that's great. >> Yeah, I would also add
145to that what Michelle said around tier one, how important that is. And we've taken the right steps this year to really focus on tier one, focus on standards, and making sure that we're teaching to those standards so that we know what teachers need to reteach. The teachers know what they have to reteach, what their students didn't get when they were in that lesson, so they can circle back around and reteach so that they don't have to be pushed onto interventions, but that's happening right in the tier one classroom. >> So are are all are are our special education teachers getting the same instruction on how to implement the core with their student population because if they have to be able to implement the core within their classroom and have that like is special education getting
146some of those same supports cuz I know some of the things that I hear in the buildings I don't have access to the curriculum or the book that I have as a teacher's manual that's 5 years old or something like that like that doesn't help them get students back on track or help students, you know, close the gap. Or do they have some of the similar supports as Janet? >> Um they do and that was one thing that we recognized this year as Sandy and I were diving into the work and as we uncovered that we began working with Michelle's team um Alexia Pappas Finley um to recognize where we needed that extra support for our staff members. So that's been a big um push to >> Mhm. Push that. >> Yeah. >> Okay, Matt,
147yeah. >> Yeah. I can't remember if we we talked about this at the board table or not. Um have you guys looked at what they're doing down in like Louisiana with the third grade gate? I think it's called the third grade gate. Where and maybe we talked about this just internally where if a student isn't proficient in like literacy or meeting literacy goals they don't progress to the next grade. Uh and this goes back to the, you know, early interventions because at some point you're learning to read and then it switches where you're reading to learn. And if you're not proficient, you're just going to keep falling further and further behind every year in literacy. I mean, if you can't read and keep up with everyone, you're not going to process. And I know, I
148mean, cuz I'd read articles cuz Louisiana's now like seventh in the nation. Like they've leapfrogged leapfrogged us, you know, for sure. Um and that was one of the things early interventions, you know, to hit those issues early. >> I was just reading about Louisiana, too, cuz I think that one of the reports came out today. And Mississippi, too, is >> Yeah. >> But what they're finding is that yes, they're holding them back in third, so they don't take the fourth grade test then until they're in theory ready, but they only hold them back for 3 years and then they can go back with their class. So, their eighth grade reading scores are like abysmal. So, like the the fourth grade tests are inflated in a way cuz you're not allowing the low performers to test.
149It was kind of an interesting I hadn't I had not read about that, but I found a study that I was looking at. One of the reasons why they're seeing these great gains is if you hold back if you don't test the kids who aren't doing well, then your numbers are going to be great. >> And essentially, you can't hold a child back with a disability because >> Well, yeah. Well, they're not doing that. >> No. >> Yeah. >> Well, I mean I mean I just see is it the I wonder if it's the same thing where Minnesota's now 20th. I think academically. >> fourth grade, not in eighth grade, but >> Yeah. >> Well, do you need more money? I mean do you think >> [laughter] >> I mean at the at the end
150of the day, do you need more money? And if the answer is yes, then then let's have a proposal come to the board and say, "Hey, this is what we think. This is the gap. This is how much it is. This is what your capacity is available to tax the community." And then decide, "Is this something we want to move forward with?" Like it's like >> But I mean I think you you have to have some sort of data behind it if you're going to be asking for some more money. Otherwise, you're going to run into 2023 again. >> but if we have nothing to react to that at the moment, it sounds to me like things are fine. And and when I hear we're just going to deploy one interventionist in the middle school,
151it's like is that fine? >> Can I just say that I am not as your superintendent stating that things are fine. Um and to your your request for information regarding um the the schedule on levies and and what the levy limit sits at and when that changes uh I'll I'll I believe I've shared that, but I will share it some more, uh and we will put it into the budget book, but this budget book till the next iteration of update. I'll get it to you sooner, uh another schedule like that, but I think the bigger work is what you've what you've identified, and that is what what are our needs with regard to teaching and learning, and and then we need to articulate what the research and evidence-based data might say about cause and effect
152with regard to what we're proposing. Uh and we are on that trail. Uh I think this kind of came out a while ago, so um we are we are trying to do a deliberate process to set a condition, um and I don't want to speak too fast out of turn here, but one of the things I we just went through a bond levy for our middle schools, and I think we need to take the upcoming school year to shape exactly what you're talking about, to bring you a proposal so you can react to that, and obviously sooner than later. Um so I've been doing some work on trying to plan that out timing-wise, uh so we can do some deep work on that as well. So, uh I'm not saying everything is fine. We do
153have needs, uh but I also want to be very careful about when we ask, and I know you do, too. Um what are we asking for, and what's the proof in the pudding, so to speak? >> I think one other question, Michelle, I might not for tonight, but leave you with is just I think it's really interesting that on the last page before page 55, is Minnetonka and Wayzata, who are the two two close to us in this other chart, they only have a 14% special ed rate, which is not like the other schools. Like we're we're 5% higher. And I just think it's interesting to know why. Like that doesn't make sense to me. I feel like you should all be more or less the same. And so, are they What are they doing
154in that school district in tier one or tier two to help bring down costs before you get to tier three? I think I mean, I'm curious to learn about that, so not for tonight, but It's an expensive category. All right, anything else? Okay. Um moving on to advisory committee assignments. So, in our packet um is the current list of all of our um councils and committees that the board is in is either mandated or invited to participate on. I just wanted to have a um preliminary discussion about where people would want to be for next year. Maybe you want to be on the same thing. Maybe you're interested in a new area. Um so, maybe I'll just go over them really briefly and um we don't have to walk away here tonight with a final,
155but what I ask is um if you're interested in moving to a different area, either let me or Superintendent Bowman know, and um if if there's someone in that role and we can only have one, we can figure out how to negotiate that um as a group. But, um this is more to just go over where we're at and then decide um for you to decide personally what you would be interested in participating in. So, the American Indian parent advisory, um we do not have a representative and none is requested and none is mandated, so that one is fine. Um currently community ed, I sit on. Early childhood, I sit on. Um finance, Tony and Brian. Is that crack brain? That's right, right? >> You're on the finance >> You and you and Tony. Oh.
156>> No, it's just Well, you're not anymore. Just Tony. Okay. Um the GAC gifted committee, I'm on that. We currently have no one sitting on the multi-district collaborative, which is required, so someone um we will need to get someone on that for this next school year. Special education, Kim. Teaching and learning, we currently have three. So Carly, Matt, and Paul. Wellness, we have Carly. Uh District 917, Kim, the high school league Kim, Association of Metro School Districts Amber, and Lakeville Arenas Carly. Um and so I think we could do some breakup here to make it a little more even amongst board members. Um Does anybody have any thoughts right out of the gate of ones that you're you're like, I really want to stay in this one or I'm really interested in moving to a
157different different area or >> Yeah, Kim, but I I'd like to stay in teaching and learning. >> Okay. >> Oh, I'm flexible to move if someone else has interest in teaching and learning. Um I've served on GAC and MBCC in the past. Um I've never done community ed or early education or so. >> Okay. >> Yeah, flexible. >> I'd I'd jump on the MDCC one, Multi-District Collaborative Advisory Council. >> I'd be more than willing to give up money. So, um >> Which which one is your >> Which one what? >> Which one do you most want to give up? >> Well, I think it's I mean I think they're all important, but I think I mean the community ed one I think is very They're all important, I shouldn't say. Community ed brings in a
158lot of people who are not connected to our schools in other ways. So the committee is a lot of older adults in our community, which I think is they're really big ally for our district. So, I think it's important that people are going to these things regularly. Not not so much I mean, I learn a lot. I think everyone learns a lot when you go, but it's more out of appreciation for the people who are on the committee. So, I think whatever people are able to commit to, I think is what's what's the best. Um and those two mean a lot. Community ed and early childhood mean >> How often? >> Almost monthly. >> And >> you shouldn't be on both of those. >> Yeah, and I was told like if you're on one, you're
159on both, but I don't think it has to be that way. Cuz they're they're the same budget line, right? But >> Split that up. >> Like Community Ed oversees um Early Childhood. But I think it could be split up. >> in Early Childhood. >> Oh, I mean if we're talking about 2027 uh activities, I think it may be wise to pause for >> Well, we're talking about >> Well, so technically how the board has done it is >> I want to do the high I'll do that Minnesota High School League liaison one. Wait, is that for the fall? >> have to do anything for that. >> Yeah, that one's really easy. You don't have to do anything. >> [laughter] >> Sign me UP FOR THAT. I CAN SIGN ON THAT. >> SHOULD WE go to
160the meeting? >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Like her many meetings, right? >> I'm sure the Lakeville Arenas board would be interested. >> Just like the first sign up. >> I'm sure the Lakeville Arenas board would may want like me on there. >> I'm happy to Well, the state has I don't need to stay on that. I'm I'm flexible to rotate off of anything you want to add me to. >> Okay, that'd be cool. >> Put me wherever. >> Maybe percolate. And if you're interested or willing to join another one or a different one, let me know. I mean, there's >> Can we just create maybe clear expectations? Like Like if we are trying to more evenly divide, what is the expectation? That everybody try to be on two committees? >> Yes. I mean, that would
161be fair. And some meet way less than others, you know? >> Yeah. Well, and I think it's also like an expectation if I can't come to one of the meetings that I were they're scheduled, I try to find another board member to fill in for me cuz I think it's important that we have that if we're going to commit to be a presence on the boards that we need to have a board member there. >> Yeah, every committee has a spot for, as you probably know, um school board update. And so we're asked to come and present about what's going on um at the board. So, okay, think about what two you're interested in being on. And typically, Brian, what I might understand is our the Lakeville board has assigned these in the summer so
162that it you stay for the school year knowing that some board members are rotating potentially rotating off mid-year. So, it follows a >> They were done in January. >> We We have historically assigned in January. I don't really >> But we didn't last year. >> think that >> We did. >> It was close. >> didn't switch anything last year. >> We didn't switch. Yeah. >> I've been told over and over it always happens in the summer and has for like decades. >> Since I've been on the board I feel like I feel like since I've been on the board we've been talking about this in January. >> January. >> Okay, well we can just do it in January then. >> But I don't actually think >> board members come generally in January. >> I think
163the reason >> has to do with the election cycle. >> The reason people I think the district suggested fall is that the first meeting is kind of a welcome meeting for everyone on the committee and then you get to know each other rather than like hopping in mid-year. >> I I personally feel like if we assign for fall then it it creates a more like collaborative year and then if we have new board members rotating on we can just fill in for that 6 months. >> They would like assume the role of the person leaving. >> But what do others think? >> I like the I like the school board meetings. I'll go to that one. >> All right. >> I was on community ed and I liked it. Like I've served on that. >>
164Oh yeah, it's a good committee. >> Yeah. >> But you're saying fall assignment. >> Fall assignment. >> Are you saying What are you saying? >> I I've been told fall assignment is what the committees are asking for and what the district wants. >> Okay. >> Is the gifted advisory one where they learn about like how to use AI and incorporate that into their stuff or is this Is >> No, it's about gifted and gifted and gifted advisory council. So, students who are taking an ignite and discover and AP and >> Got it. >> those types of experiences. >> has come to the teaching and learning. >> It has. >> Mhm. And I mean it's it has and it's probably a continued discussion given. >> Yeah. >> My god, I was just told that we normally
165do this in January and I I feel like I was under the assumption we did it at the beginning of the school year, so but we're going to do it now. >> it's ideal that we do it in January. >> Okay. >> So everybody should send you a couple that they're interested in. >> Yeah. Yep. >> And then yeah. >> Did you ask Do you want to ask? >> No, I'll just be in touch. >> Okay, sounds good. Okay. >> All right. Um >> Was there also the um district leadership one? Or is that not have a board? >> think that's happening anymore, I think. >> be on that one. >> Or no, is there a district leadership one? >> Yeah. >> That's a university >> Dick is um is a contractually required professional issues
166committee. Um I think you may be talking about uh whether we're having um >> Under the union contract. Okay, sorry. Superintendent. >> Yeah, we we've had requests from EML to meet with board members. Um so we were doing that I think roughly on a quarterly basis. Um >> You mean meet and confer? >> No, meet and confer, yeah. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> But the >> I think you're talking about something different. >> The other one was like building leads that came together and like I remember one of the meetings we kind of looked at some of the data across schools and talked about the kind of like what was happening. Just It was a shared or a district >> The district shared leadership >> yes. So um early on when we initiated that committee,
167um, we did have some board participation. It's not an advisory. And so, what we were trying to do when we revamped all the advisories and we put together this handout is to make sure that we were being clear about what is an advisory, what's an internal work group. Um, and I think for the internal work A lot of that stuff comes to the board through other mechanisms anyway. Um, and so because it wasn't required, we were really sticking to the required list. So, we made a shift on that a couple of years ago. Um, I think Yeah. So, I think that's really what when we We just wanted to have more clarity around where is it that we we are required to have board participation and make sure that we have that. So, Yes. >>
168Thank you. >> Yes, that did exist. >> You helped my brain tonight. >> But when you say advisory, like I want to make sure I understand the definition. Like are we Are we as a board member to attend and just observe or are they to engage and participate and provide direction and and provide input and insights and here's what I want, here's what we should do. They're not creating the agenda, but they're just sharing their point of view or are they supposed to share the board's point of view? And and And are these advisories like just like do you guys actually control them and we're like board members are there just to like oh, we're here if you have questions. Cuz it's eventually it's going to come to us anyways. You know what I mean?
169So, I'm just >> Well, it's helpful I won't say that I don't participate. I don't I definitely don't direct things as a board member, especially since I'm one member, but um, I think what's helpful is just to see what's going on in those councils or committees and then you're able to share [clears throat] that out with the board at the next meeting. So, I attended this is something, you know, with GAAP for instance, they've made some changes or some of the things that we've talked about. So then you're sharing out to the board what when we have our board reports, that's an opportunity to say, "This was talked about at this meeting." So, you can participate, but we're not operating in a >> So, so then I think I'd like to ask is which ones
170are the ones that are required required by the state. I think that they're listed here. And the ones that are not required by the state, we should probably just recalibrate. Is there a value of us attending those or are there others that we ought to be attending that we're not? Um and and again, the list that we have is the list that we have. I'm not saying there's there ought to be more, but are there more that we're not thinking of? Because we're just going in as an advisory, like just to listen, then are these ones that we want to go see? You know what I mean? >> These are all of them. >> These are all the ones that >> are no other groups. >> There are no other groups, okay. >> Right. >>
171No, I know. >> Okay. >> you can make up >> No, no, no, no. We don't need more. >> But I'll just say advisory uh typically, and I can only speak to past board uh interaction was those were very relational opportunities for board members to um interact with different public constituents. >> It's good to show our face, interact with people who are who are serving our district. >> Well, we just fair, and I'm not saying that we shouldn't, but if we but let's tackle the ones that are required first. And then, those who want to attend the non-required ones can. Or because not every board member may want to go attend advisory meetings. They because if the intent is to learn more about it, they can choose to go learn about it on their own
172way or their own pathway or or whatever it may be. I just I I just want to make sure that uh we're not doing something just because it's always been before. We just let's just make sure that we understand the ROI in the in the the value that's associated with it. >> Well, and we are being requested, whether it's I mean, the mandatory ones, yes, but the other ones except for the American Indian Parent Advisory, we are being requested to attend by the district staff and um often the the community members who are chairing the committee. >> But but then but why? Why are they requesting? Like what is it that they're needing from a board member to share with them that uh that that an admin person could not? >> So, we are elected
173by the community. Like we're community elected representatives. And so, when we go to an advisory council that's made up of community members, we're their voice on this part. We're supposed to share in our board report, this is what was discussed by the the council and the people on that council and we're supposed to share it with the rest of the board. >> But does that mean that you're going to share that? >> Well, >> They But they serve a different purpose. They're district administrators. They work for the district. We're elected by the public. >> Yes. And as >> way I understand it. >> Which is which is fair and and and that point of view is is your right to have, but as an elected official, my point of view could be different. And so,
174if I want if I as an elected official, I you know, if I choose not to go to those advisory non-required events, and if I want to be on the board uh and and share my point of view and vote on things like that, that that's that's the role that I choose to play. So, um >> Yeah, we can't force board members to be on any of them, right? We do have to fill some of them. So, I think some people Some people will just step up and fill, right? Um I think I think it's an opportunity for board members to be more educated about what we're doing, right? >> Yeah. >> And to interact with people that we often don't in our like most of the committees I'm on, it's not people I would
175normally talk to. Young families, like our early elementary, older adults. Um and so, this is my opportunity to >> your preference. >> It's also our constituents that they're asking us to >> And that's one pathway for you to talk to your constituents. That doesn't mean that I can't talk to constituents in my other in my own other pathway. So, I just want to be mindful that like, "Hey, while these advisory councils are fine and and we have no authority there, we're there to listen and hear what's going on in in that respective area, but we should ought to be getting those recaps and updates anyways from our superintendent." And and so >> But I hear you hear you saying you do not want to you do not want to do this. >> No, I'm not
176saying I don't want to do this. I am saying I I understand that, but I want to say that we this is one of those where as a school board elected official the elected official should have the autonomy to decide how they want to engage with the community. And advisory committees are one pathway. The and and non-advisory committees are another. That's all. >> How about that? How about this, Brian? We can't I'm not going to We're not going to be like, "You have to go to those." >> I have to finance. >> But if you sign up for one, the expectation is you attend. >> I agree. >> So, if you're not able if you're not able to do that, then let someone else go because I think there's there are there are gaps here,
177right? Where where people are listed at times and there's no no one showing up. And so that's just not a good look for the board. So, I think if you can't do it or can't commit to it, that's fine. We're not going to force you, but please only sign up if you actually want to be part of it. >> And and my question is then what are they needing from a board member that they can't get from an email to the chair, an email to the board, a conversation with the superintendent, and a recap to be presented to to be provided to the superintendent and shared to the rest of the board? And so where's the gap? >> I feel like we're on a repeat. So, I want to serve >> No, we don't need
178to go through and raise hands right now. >> But but it's important for us to know going into assignments, like perhaps just set a date by which >> Yeah, if I don't hear from people, I'll just assume you're not you don't want to sign up, and that's fine. Right? And the people who do will. >> cover these so that we don't have some committees or councils that are not covered in some that are. >> Right. Yep. >> So. >> Yeah, that's it. Okay. All right, moving into goal setting. Um so I'll turn over to you in a minute, Michael, but um in conversation with um Oh, thank you for being here, cabinet members. I didn't realize everyone was going to leave. >> You're welcome. >> [laughter] >> But um >> I'm here about expectations. >>
179I know the board has discussed wanting to set goals um for this upcoming school year. And as well as um Michael's been interested in that. So what I asked asked Michael to do was to prepare a draft set of goals uh for him, which translate then to the school district goals uh for us to react to um in discussion. And so I think that's what Michael's going to hand out here in a moment. Um I think what this is really based on is the continued work of this board. So um the strategic plan that we are we're working off of um from the the data and metrics that we've asked and the goals that we've set um accordingly with those um with those metrics um and other priorities that the board has identified. And so
180I think it's important like we don't just completely shift gears to a whole new set of things cuz we're working on building right over time strength in these key areas. So I think that's what Michael you've developed. Um and can I just let you go through it and then people can react based on that? >> Yes, thank you for >> Okay. >> Sure. So I printed cuz I didn't know who would have a digital device and who would not. >> Thanks. >> Is this an open session or closed session? >> This is an open session. We're not evaluating. >> Yeah, it's just old. >> Yeah. >> Did everybody get a copy? Amber, did you >> I can open mine on my email. >> Okay. So, just as the board chair said, my thinking on this
181task was um build on where we are uh as a school system and what the board is looking to do. So, you know, I tried to write a purpose statement so that we could stay focused on that uh which, you know, I feel is we should not go off on some other tangent. We should stay and build on what we've been working on together. So, um we have the QDR or QBR. We've used those terms interchangeably. I think we've landed on QDR cuz it's data-focused. Um we have our op plan, we have our strategic plan, and all those are nested together. Uh we we do not like try to go down different tracks with that. Um so, that's what I tried to do here and I think the overall objective is four or five goals
182that are strategic level and we can talk to what the data sets are. Um and that's what I wrote in here. So, if you just start with the first goal, student achievement, readiness, and system performance, I think that is first and should be first. Um and what I'm trying to articulate here is um is work on our instructional systems with a focus on student achievement, student growth. I think graduation outcomes and readiness for post-secondary success. Those are all the things that I have noted in the conversations that we've had. And then um to talk about metrics um MCAs and MCAs both for uh um reading proficiency, math proficiency, growth trends. And then we use FAST Bridge as a local assessment growth indicator. So all those things are already built and it's saying, "Okay, are these
183the right um growth metrics to focus on?" I think we've already kind of settled on that. And then um The second goal is student experience and engagement. And that's more tied to um the strategic plan and the desired daily experiences. But with some metrics, if you go down and look at what I'm recommending as metrics is chronic absenteeism rates, average daily attendance rates. These are all things we've already kind of talked about, I think. Um any major behavior incidents, which the implied task there is to how do you data collect on that and report, and out-of-school suspension rates is all indicators. >> Can I can I pause that just for a second? Um I I like these metrics, uh but I'm not so sure on the attendance one where some of these metrics aren't within
184your control to to like like this. >> Well, I'm responsible for everything the school district does or fails to do. Well, that's the approach I take. >> I understand, but is it but if if a parent or a student chooses chooses not to attend school and the standard protocols is their phone calls and whatever may be, an unfavorable chronic absenteeism rate isn't one that that >> say if it's on scale in your district you got a problem and your leadership superintendent probably should be shown the door. >> I think the question what you're getting to is like well what do you do to address it? >> you do what do you yeah. >> And I think that's where you can have systems. >> Well it's corrective action are the systems in place? If all those
185things are working from my level down then those numbers should be they're they're not going to be zero. >> Right. >> They if there's like a growth trend there >> Right. >> then you ought to be saying >> What are you doing? >> superintendent why are why is that happening and if it's like 50% I mean >> Yeah. Well that's what in Mississippi they're focusing on absenteeism as being a serious issue and addressing that by contacts between the district staff and the parents. >> Yeah. >> That's the kids that are absent. >> I mean >> So you can put additional steps in place. >> And I think like being married to someone that does this kind of work I think when school districts are doing this well which I think we're in that camp they're
186monitoring these things in in its relation to student performance and they're catching students before it becomes chronic. And so it's a lot of if you have the systems in place from the top up it it really works. Sorry Paul I didn't mean to cut >> Yeah no and and I just wanted to say Michael I think you just nailed it with the comment you made. As the leader of the whole shebang your your responsibility is to find ways to take chaos and turn it into results and if absenteeism is chaos then it's your job to turn it into some kind of positive result whatever that >> As long as you don't ask me to turn water into wine I'll keep going. >> Well that makes I guess that makes sense. I mean if you're the
187superintendent and and and that is a metric you want I guess I was looking at it through the lens of you can't control if a child comes to school or not if the parent takes them on vacation. [clears throat] Like you don't have that choice and so you're tying it You're tying a metric where the kid uh to a metric that you don't have any control over. Whereas, I mean, I guess you could make a uh a rule that says, you know, every class that you attend, you get 10 points. And and And so, if you're going to miss class, you're going to you're going to We're going to dock you 10 points. And that that kind of it forces, uh you know, >> But there I mean, I think we're talking about There's two
188different things between chronic absenteeism leading to bad grades or a kid who just can can is still proficient and is still hitting all the benchmarks, but is doesn't have to go to class all the time. And I don't know that we have the data We haven't connected the two dots in our data yet to determine like, okay, what percent of our chronic absenteeism are relating to kids who are failing one or more classes. >> Where are Where are we going to get data from? >> about that, yeah. >> That major behavioral incident one? Um >> We'll get it from Infinite Campus. >> Yeah, there's a guy Who's the guy that came? >> Jamie. >> Yeah, he said they were going to do some sort of data assessment. >> Over the summer they are. >> Over
189the summer, okay. Sorry, go ahead. I thought that's the one that I that I just wanted to say, "Hey, okay, things in your control are >> Under goal three, we're talking about talent optimization and the um that's geared toward workforce and workforce stability, licensed staff retention, administrator retention. Um what's our vacancy fill rates, hard fill position fill rates, which is really all the staffing things that we do. And um I think those are in line with uh our operations plan and and how we are uh doing data collection on that. And to articulate that as a as a goal, you want What I'll do is I'll I'll I'll if if we're okay with this layout, is I would I would come back with a Okay, here's what I think the benchmark ought to be. Um
190and then you can say, "Well, you know, if chronic absenteeism is you know, if I say it's if it's anything over 3%, you know, that's that's a no-go." You might say, "No, it needs to be at 1%." Or, you know, we can have that discussion. So, I I what I wanted to do here is just establish that these metrics and these goals, and I think I have four of them. Um, you know, if we want to add goals, I guess we can have that conversation. The last one is operational stewardship, financial management, strategic execution. So, um, you know, we've talked a lot. Obviously, tonight we talked about the FY 27 budget. So, um, recommended metrics are progress toward a greater than or equal to 10% unassigned fund balance, structural deficit management trend to make sure
191that I'm dealing with that, forecasting accuracy. So, that's, you know, am I plus or minus budget to budget on, you know, is it 1%? Is it 2%? Uh, corrective action responses, am I timely and giving you the information you need so any decisions that have to be made don't aren't surprises. Um, and then operational effect- effectiveness, facilities utilization maintained within the district target of range 83 to 87%. We've talked a lot about that. Our goal is to be at 85%. So, I'm just using all the things that we've already um, articulated with that. With regard to strategic execution, strategic and operational plan execution greater than or equal to 90%. What does that mean on the QDR and our op plan? We have I I think I shared with you in the last uh, evaluation our
192op plan and how that's laid out. And so, there's a lot of tasks in there that are action uh, oriented on our strategic plan. What I'm saying is that we're we're executing at 90% or better in terms of closing those out. Um, that one might be a little difficult to assimilate. Annual operational plan milestone completions and board priority implementation progress. So, whatever your priorities are that I am on task to to do those uh and implement those. One of the things we've talked about, which I consider to be um maybe not a s- formally stated goal, but talking about academics and doing a deliberate planning process in order to make a decision around a needs assessment for financial wherewithal and any potential future levies. That would be an example of you've given me that task
193and I am um I am working toward that. And then I just summarize them again, recommended core metrics goal 1 2 3 4, and then our next steps would be to if you're good with this framework, you want refinements to it, I get the refinements and come back and present you with uh what I think maybe the baselines ought to be for each of those or what the goals ought to be by a metric uh on each of those. >> I think something I'd like to propose, Michael, just before we launch into conversation is some of them I think make sense to have a number, like 3%, whatever. >> Mhm. >> But I do appreciate on some of them where you've listed like proficiency trends or reduction I forget the wording, but I think it's
194hard to create a number at times, but if we we want to see either increasing or decreasing depending upon the item. And if that's the trend that we're seeing, that's what we want. >> Yeah. >> We're not I mean, not necessarily like even if things aren't moving in the direction that you would like them to go. Like I always appreciate the reflection on that and how are you adjusting like our district plan to to account to account for that, right? Like thought process behind it and then a plan in place to >> Well, I I think I should have to alibi uh any of these metrics, whether they're trend metrics or they're, you know, I I got to 9.9, I didn't make 10. >> Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> And I'll just be
195candid with where things land. Uh I'll I'll work my butt off to accomplish those, but you know, I think in the end I have to lead in a way that creates the conditions from the district office to the classroom that are positive and can move us, you know, as a as an organization toward those goals. Um I I feel like I can do that. I feel confident I can do that. Um and I you know, I worked with other people to shape these, but these have been two years of talking about what's going on in the district and I've tried to codify those here and capture those here and stay on plan with what we've been doing now for the past two years or at least since I came back. Um And and I think
196that this gives us our best opportunity at actually accomplishing that. >> Kim, and >> Um before we start discussion on this, I I'm just trying to um figure out what our expectations are with this. So, um do we take this, mull over it a little bit, process, and then send any like questions or adjustments to Michael? Like is that how you want us to to frame this? Cuz I mean we could we could talk about this for a long time. >> Yeah, I mean I think maybe it base depends on the reception tonight. If people feel excited and comfortable with it, we might not need that, but if people need that processing time, that's fine, too. So, but I think the goal is to take this and and set the benchmarks after we after we
197get to a comfortable place, which could happen after this meeting immediately or >> Okay. I just wasn't sure like what you were expecting, so. >> Matt. >> Um a couple questions. One, just from a you know, on the metrics and the student growth local assessment growth indicators. I know we have Fast Bridge and then obviously MCA the one time a year. We I would love to see something where we have our common assessments more widely implemented at the end of this next year. Cuz I feel that that's a more reliable local assessment than Fast Bridge because we don't teach to Fast Bridge. We don't teach to the MCAs well, we kind of teach the MCAs, but you know, cuz the the common assessments then would actually provide and something where the board can actually see
198it on our dashboard. So then we can see how our students are actually doing on the on the curriculum that we're teaching them, you know, and I know that that's in process. But I think that'd be a great goal to get that even further down the road in the next year. >> Are you thinking like then like let's say I forget the class that did the presentations with the scheduling? I forget what class that >> It's an English class. >> Yeah, 10th grade English. >> So that was a common assessment, right? Between North and South. So that's like the teacher giving a grade which will then influence their overall grade for that class. So are we interested in seeing like grades? You know what I mean? It's not like we're going to get like a
199test score in a lot of cases cuz it's project based. >> Well, you yeah, I mean there'd have to be some a consistent rubric and you know, set this is how we're analyzing this. For something like that for math and science you might get a test score, right? On a on a unit test or something like that. Like this is what we've been doing for the past month and we're getting a score on it, right? So then you can see okay, how are students actually learning what we want them to learn, right? Um cuz uh like the uh Yeah, I mean it's going to be very subjective obviously when you get to the 10th grade English thing about how you're doing your schedules. I mean you walked around the room and listened to different students
200present and some were very refined and some maybe not so much. Um Yeah. >> So, is there also a goal there around like creating more consistency in the system? >> Well, I think that's happening. Um but I think this is part of that process, too. >> that will come of that. >> Yeah, I mean that's part of the process. So, then you can assess it cuz I mean four-year graduation rate and grades is great, but I think we all saw at graduation, I mean, 160 of the 410 kids were at a 3.7 or higher, you know? >> Well, that's going to change. >> Well, that's what we need. >> That will change significantly. >> Well, I think Emily and I spoke about it, and it's not going to It's They're still going to be at
201like a 3.2, you know, even if you remove the weighted grades. It didn't It didn't It didn't change it as much as I thought it would. >> I also >> weighted side. >> If we're going to discuss graduation rates, like I If we're going to be equitable in how we look at graduation, I think we should look at four and six years, um just because the students that take a different pathway and take some longer to graduate doesn't mean they didn't attain the goal, they just did it in a different time frame. Um and we have several several students, lots of different student populations that that do that, so. >> Yeah, I'm just thinking on the common assessments, it's something that we have more control over. >> How would you like think I'm thinking about
202like the high school level or even like middle school, there's going to be hundreds of common assessments, right? per term. So, how How would the board like to receive that information? >> Well, you have >> Cuz I like to be more up here, I guess. So, I'm trying to think like How do you drill down to see every sixth grade test? >> right? Math, science, whatever. You know, they'd have a unit test. >> Right. >> And how many kids are >> There's probably like 10 units per term. >> So, for this term, how many kids are you meeting proficiency on the common assessments? Right? You know, per grade, per school. And then the district I mean, I don't know that we'd have access to per classroom, but the district should be analyzing that per classroom,
203right? So, we can find best practices that are achieving the best results and try to replicate it across the district. >> Like the teaching and learning should be. >> But the metric that you would But the metric that you would be targeting would be whatever that aggregate metric it is. How he gets there is at his discretion. >> Right. >> And so, >> Yeah. >> you're >> Correct. >> So, there there are two things we we we've got. We've got metrics that do we agree with? What I'm sorry. What what's the metric that we want to track or we want to see that we agree with? How he gets there is at his discretion. And then the second one is are there uh school district initiatives that we want him to focus on and try
204to accomplish within that school year. And so, cuz I think they're While they may be related, but one could be we want to be able to implement seventh hour in high school. I'm just making it up. Seventh hour in high school. That that's an initiative. It's not really a metric. And so, um this is very metric focused, which is fine. And and we give you the >> for you, sir. >> I appreciate that. [laughter] Uh but there but there are things where where I would like more I would like more career-oriented classes in high school that the kids can choose from, you know. And uh But that that's an initiative. And so so, I I just want to make sure that we're we're aligned on what what we're trying to solve here. Sure. Cuz what
205you're asking for, I think, is more of an initiative, which might roll up into a metric at one of these levels. >> Yeah. It seems like one of our like main concerns as a board has been student performance. And if and if we want that to be the goal, then we should let Bowman try to get We're not going to see that in a year, necessarily, right? So, maybe it's through common assessments, maybe it's through some other >> Well, well, in common assessments again, it's just the it's just an indicator, right? It's it's a more reliable assessment of where our students are at than MCs or FastBridge. Um You know, if done properly, right? Because it's assessing on what are what the teachers are actually teaching them in the classroom. Because right now it's hard
206to grade our students on the MCAs and say, I mean you hear the criticism only you know, 50% of the kids are proficient and it's like, well, you know, that's a test that they're not motivated to take because they don't get any grade for it and they don't study for the test. So, if we're actually having a consistent curriculum, consistent common assessment in each each category or class across the district, then we can see like, okay, how are the students doing in this certain >> So, what metric do you want to see at the end? >> I think that's going to be I think that's going to be hard to nail down because it's going to look different from like middle school and then high school where they take different classes and then we have
207kids that are doing PSEO. >> Let the superintendent figure that out. What metric What metric do you want to see for you to feel comfortable our school is moving in the right direction academically? >> Well, I mean, I want to know how our students are doing on the material we're testing them consistently across the district. >> I think it boils down to proficiency. I mean, you can have grade inflation and have high grade points. I'm being cynical now, Michael, so bear with me. You can have teachers who don't want to deal with students, so they pass them on and they should have kept them back. All of those things create high numbers for grade point and graduation rates, but that doesn't necessarily mean that somebody's proficient in math or or reading or you know, go
208down the list, whatever whatever you want to use. I I was reading and I don't know if anybody else caught this, but California in California, the professors at the state schools are saying they've got students coming in and they're having to teach them middle school math and what they're saying is is that the California schools are just pushing these students through and by the time they go to college and even if they don't go to college, let's say they want to be a plumber cuz they cuz I'm absolutely fine with that. You still have to calculate how long a pipe is, right? Um so so [clears throat] the point is is that college professors in California at state schools are starting to sound an alarm and saying your whole state school system, public school system
209is blowing up numbers and everybody thinks we're doing great and I'm getting these kids in school in in college and I've got to teach them middle school math. >> So are you saying these proficiency numbers are right on? >> I I'm saying the proficiency numbers are needed. >> Yeah. >> You Somebody just asked the question, what's important? [clears throat] >> Yeah, I think these are exactly what you're saying. >> Yes, I think proficiency is extremely important. >> the MCA reading and the MCA math proficiency score >> That's a different question, right? >> Does that meet your expectation? If the answer is no, then >> It's too much of a It's too much of a lagging indicator. >> Fast Bridge is for you? Three times a year? >> Yeah, I mean, by the time you find
210out, right? And and it's not >> level. At the We're asking him to drive numbers up at the system. >> But Michael >> And he can do that, in my opinion. >> But again, so >> At the At the test level. >> So they're changing curriculum, right? Aligning curriculum with the benchmarks, which aligns with the MCAs. >> Yeah. >> So if we're doing that, you know, across the system with consistency, we're already going to have the data, right? The common assessments are already being built in. >> Mhm. >> I just want I think the board should know that. Like, okay, how are we doing? So then MCAs is not a shock. >> So you're forecasting your your forecasting that your MCAs are going to be good. >> It's more I don't even know if it's
211a leading indicator, but >> I'll just say this about common assessments, if I may. Um the build process is not mature by any state of the imagination. Uh we are diligently working on that, but uh if if it's something as simple as I want 50% of the courses across the school system to have common assessments that are vetted, um okay. Um if it's I want data from the from from those um brought to the board, um that might be a little harder to do, might be on a smaller scale. I don't know, but um >> That's what I was trying to understand it. >> kind of where we are cuz I had to reconstruct the SBR process, um and and common assessment builds are part of that, but um it's a deliberate process. Um so
212I'll just throw that out there. I I'll do what you want me to do, uh but can't squeeze blood out of a turnip as we are right now. >> But that's I think that's what I was trying to understand earlier. It's like part of this there's sys- systems level work happening. And is part of our job as a board to understand what's fidelity at this point in terms of what is being rolled out and how is it actually shaping out in the schools as we want it to versus when the data may lag behind that in the coming couple of years. Um but I also think if you're I think your point is a good one that we often don't feel like MCAs are capturing how our students are actually doing. So perhaps an idea
213is just for a question for Tracy or um Superintendent Bowman, maybe you have an idea, but is there anything else that we can use as more of a an indicator? >> I would say FastBridge because I mean, I don't think it's my job as a board member to know like what Johnny got on his second quarter science exam. >> [laughter] >> That happened like >> I don't think we're he's asking >> I don't think we need that level of Well, those are common assessments. >> as a parent, you know, the the FastBridge just came out. We got the email a couple like last week. And I look at my kids' grades. I don't even know what they mean. M and we're in elementary. The FastBridge scores I am hyper looking at because it tells me
214how is my kid performing to other peers in Lakeville, but other kids across the country. And that tells me are we on track or not? And while I while I think common assessments are really important and those can drive towards good scores on these standardized tests, I just think we have to pick like we have to know that the common assessment work has to happen in order to drive up these numbers. >> Well, I mean we we did see, you know, Shawn Murphy came in here and spoke a month ago. >> And Kim Booty >> And was and Kim Booty, I mean, highly in favor of common assessments. We're not the only district that's pushing for it, either. Other districts have it. >> pushing against it at all. >> I just I mean, I think
215we're throwing darts as board members if we don't have more reliable data on the academic side. I mean, FastBridge, what do they call it? It's a it's a different kind of assessment. Uh I'm blanking on the name of it. >> It's a growth indicator. >> Yeah, I mean, but it's not like, "Hey, we're testing you on what you're learning, right?" Um cuz again, are we teaching to the FastBridge? You know, are we teaching that same material in our classrooms? And then, does FastBridge even even test beyond ninth grade in FastBridge? >> kind of suggesting then we don't have these tests? >> I mean, it's what we have right now. >> that's like what we've set as our main goals. >> Cuz that's all we have. And that's why I'm saying I'd like to see the
216common assessments move forward, you know? >> So, what what can't we common assessment. >> Correct. >> Which again I feel like is too too detailed and dialed down into like classroom level that's going to look so different at secondary levels when they're taking multiple classes. Like then you're only pulling data from like elementary because they're doing reading. >> Can I do this just to maybe I don't know what it's not expedited. It's there it's a great debate but I hear Matt saying get a metric in there on common assessment. Yes? >> Yeah, I mean I think you guys are already doing the work, right? >> So I will come back to you with a proposal on what that should look like and maybe we can debate that cuz you know, I want to make sure
217that I'm not putting my teaching and learning folks into a position they Yeah. >> But I think it's important. I think you're talking about you want to see I mean, what I'm hearing you say is you want to see a common assessment metric where we're tracking student performance. What I'm hearing you say is I think we should make a goal on getting 20% of our assessments to be common and then increase it. >> Yeah, but within that you could also you could also do similar alignment. You could do both actually. >> It won't be 100%, right? I mean and you know that in year one, right? Like that's what I I think I'm like we're not going to have common assessments for everything this academic year. So are you comfortable with like a small amount?
218>> I mean, this is what we have right now. We have FastBridge and MCAs, right? And that's why we set our goals on those numbers last year cuz that's all we had, right? >> CAPT too. >> But you know, we heard the >> Which is second >> come in again and they're saying, well, yeah, we're moving that way. We're we're getting alignment in the curriculum and working on these >> But I think it might take like 5 years to fully get there. So, are you comfortable with like a metric that would say X percent? >> Yeah, I would love to know why it's going to take 5 years, but >> I That's I made that number up. >> Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I would love to know why it's going to take 2
219years or 3 years. >> It's a complex thing to get things vetted. >> Yeah, but I'm I'm curious cuz I think Shawn Murphy may have been a little bit more optimistic and maybe it's just on the secondary level with getting their common assessments in place. >> It's different at secondary than it is in elementary. >> Yeah. >> I think it's but when you're looking at the nuance of the data, like I understand like how many different things are captured with the CAPT testing, phonics, um, you know, all the different components of what they're missing for the the phonemes. And so then it's not only like getting them to take the test, then seeing the data that we get, and then providing an intervention that's going to help the students make progress on that. So, there
220are several steps in this process, and just because we start CAPT testing and we know where students are at, we have to know what to do with that data, and then we have to have the intervention in place to be able to accommodate for that. And we don't even have all the interventions built yet. So, yeah, I'd say it's probably a five-step process or five-year process because we've got to do all these other things first, and then we've got to have the money to have the interventions in place and teachers. >> just get the data first. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, Michael, I think Michael said he can come to us with something. I mean, my I appreciated this document. >> I've not seen it until today. I feel like if all of these
221things were either improved or reduced based on the thing, we would be in a really great We would be making great movement. And so I think while I think we can cherry-pick and add things and we should if there's critical things, I'm not um, I also want to be cognizant of like we have to we can't have everything beyond this document cuz otherwise nothing will get accomplished. Brian to do once we >> have have >> Yeah, but you like it personal, yeah. >> Um, >> I would have to sing than much of >> So, I'm going to throw an idea out here cuz I And the reason for that is cuz we're going through some uh calibration exercises at at at my work. Um as a leader of an of a respective business unit or
222department, uh I'd love to be able to I want to put some sort of incentive tied to something like this. And so, with the executive team and the superintendent, I want to add some sort of uh incentive bonus structure uh in in something like that. So, that's that's my I don't have a I don't have a specific dollar amount or a percentage, but while it is a job, it is your salary, but these are metric-driven initiatives. And so, if there's appetite within the board, I don't know when is an appropriate time to to discuss can an incentive bonus structure be tied to annual goals and the executive team to ensure that there's alignment and a uh you know, a a drive towards these metrics. >> Not if the metrics are questionable. I mean, we we
223were just debating MCAP >> So, we we have to align on whatever the goals are and and figure out how we get there, but uh I know and I don't know financially how that would how that would work, but that is a direction that I'd like to go. >> I think my only challenge with that, and I'd like to learn if other districts do that, and I mean, I like >> And they may not. I don't think they are. >> And not that we have to do what they do. >> Yeah. >> At least in higher ed, that would be very uncommon. Either you do do it or you're not here anymore is the incentive. Um because there isn't just like extra money to And and then in a system like this, a lot of
224the yes, we need the superintendent working at a higher level, but we need the kindergarten teacher, too. And to to the two from um one getting incentivized through money and the other not I think is very >> contracts. They're different >> I realize that. I realize that. >> in public business where >> Right. >> our private businesses we've got folks that don't get bonuses. They don't get incentives. But when you've got senior leaders that are responsible for operating, managing, and delivering on the results of a $250 million $300 million operation what that this this isn't a very it's not something that would be an outlier. So, but maybe in public education >> I think we might be a long way from evaluating if if Correct me if I'm wrong, Michael, where we could effectively evaluate
225that for every staff member at the cabinet level. >> I mean, it'd have to be it be contractual, too. You know, that'd be the challenge. So, you'd have to do it at the time that you're renewing contracts or updating contracts. Um Yeah. I mean, it's it's interesting. >> why can't we just say, "Hey, we're going to add a cuz we're not changing their existing contract. We're just saying if you're going to meet these metrics, guess what? We're going to provide an incentive structure." >> Because then you could you could account for it in your budget, though. Like we're going to have to have X amount of dollars to hit bonuses available for bonuses if they >> Like I'll be you know, other districts that do anything like this? >> Um I'm not aware of a
226contract that's structured like that. I think part of it has to do I don't know if a superintendent would want to take that. I would just um >> Yeah. I don't know. >> Well, I >> I I understand what you're saying because >> The problem the problem becomes here here's one of the things and and I think it's a it's a legitimate uh it would be in my view and I'll just make it my view a legitimate concern of a superintendent um to in in pay structure, not outpacing what the rest of the organization is operating at. Um I understand the the uh value of incentive. Um but I think in an organization like public education that is got a lot of uh labor unions, I I would not as a superintendent want to do
227that. Um but I'm maybe an anomaly because I also don't take any any pay increases. Um I didn't do that in my contract. Um but that's that's a value judgment that I take because I've watched news reports about superintendents getting percentage raises higher than, say, the teachers' union. And I think that's bad optics. Um the other challenge is uh I think just what Matt said that, you know, during the contract negotiation process is when you have to set that. Um and people might balk at it at the next echelon below, like at at an executive level they might say, "Well, that doesn't work in the system. I don't want to be advantaged in any particular way with that." But um others might have a different opinion on that. And and I would respect that. I
228just think um an incentive structure like that would be very difficult in in this environment to from an optics perspective. And that's just my candid response to that. >> So, Michael, if if we take an incentive and move it aside, >> Yeah. >> and Brian, I know it's done in private business all the time, and it's very motivating, by the way. Very motivating in private business. Um you there's still an you still have an economic lever with merit increases because it correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know I don't know if there's a grid for the executive staff not not union but the executive staff but I'm I'm assuming you have the ability to say you get a 2% raise you get a 5% raise um because you're you know >> I think it's
229baked in your contract isn't it? >> Well, there's there's contracts that have that and then there's um uh I I've worked in two different systems. One system when I was in St. Paul it was a three-year contract for and I'm talking about the executive staff level and it was a a set percentage year over year and you signed it out line and that's that. Um >> Couple of >> I've been in other districts where what the your pay setting collective bargaining agreement becomes the percentage change that you have for your non-affiliates and your and and whatever other structures you have and they stay they stay on pace there. Um that's you know again a fairness thing um because you then you get into the conversation around well they're getting more percent increase uh than the
230majority of your of your team. >> you see it in in in private enterprises. I mean I think Travis Kelsey gets like 10 touchdowns he gets like a million dollars or something like that. >> I'm not saying you get a million but it's like there's when you've got individuals in leadership capacity >> Mhm. >> generally there's an incentive structure that's tied to it. >> So you're saying what the >> in the public sector Brian. >> That's not true and >> In the public sector it's not true. I will tell you too in the military it's it's very I don't care if you got four stars or or 10 stars there's a a and there's a it's there's a structure to it and um you know, I would tell you that the commander of CENTCOM is
231probably doing more than a lot of Fortune 500 company CEOs ain't getting paid anywhere near that. Um and that's because it's it's paid through government and tax dollars and I think you have to take that into account too where private enterprise can generate all kinds of revenue for a vast uh set of differences and the limiting factor I think um for public entities is it's we're tax driven and public education in particular is 100% tax driven. We got no other revenue source we can go to so I think you have to be very careful about um that kind of structure. While I understand from a principal perspective, I fully understand it um but I I think that the fact that the dollars come from tax revenue, we have to just have a different perspective on
232that. >> And then also I appreciate that some people are motivated by bonuses or whatever they're called in private sector and there's no value judgment on this but I think we also have to appreciate people who go into professions like this operate with a different different mentality at times. So, it's very mission driven. You know, you hear like the phrase like no one goes into teaching to get rich, right? Um they're not doing they're not like horrible off, right? But But if your goal is to make money and to to make as much money as you can, you're probably not going to join public education. You're not going to join the University of Minnesota. And I am driven diff I I don't get incentives. That's not why I do good work. It's about some It's
233about this other kind of I don't know what it is, but I think people are just different and I think we have to figure out what incentivizes people and it's amazing to hear you give and I'm not trying to I think contracts are important and we need strong contracts, but you hear about teachers, you know, getting a potluck catered by the PTO and that is like one of the most biggest morale and incentive boosters for them and not to say that should shouldn't get more money, but I I think >> I I get that. >> we're oversimplifying humans desire to to want to do good work. >> potluck day. >> I I I get that. I understand that. Uh if you if you want to be comparable to compensation to other districts, you know, I
234think Wayzata >> We are comparable. >> I know, but Wayzata superintendent is getting paid 280, 285 or I think 295. I'll I'll have to double check, but it's >> The new contract probably. >> yes, 280, 295. That's 295,000. That's what they're getting paid. That individual is getting paid. Uh for a comparable district like like you just shared earlier when we went through the budget. I'm not saying that uh the base salary is that plus they get incentive. There might be things in the future where what if the salary is lower? Maybe it is 250 and then you add the incentive on top of that. But again, that's if the board has alignment on does incentives drive behavior? Is there added kind of bonus for meeting the metrics? And in in part of being the leader
235{slash} CEO {slash} you know, the what that just that's part of the structure and So, I'm throwing it out there. >> Yeah. >> Sounds like there is >> Well >> lots of appetite towards this endeavor. >> I'll only add that this year was the first year at the at the VA. >> Yeah. >> We we have had like you get 1% of your salary if you meet certain metrics, but everybody has been in that this is the first year that there was different percentages based on your supervisory level and I think that fell very flat with the staff That like it's already based on your salary and now people who make more get higher percentages. And >> Well, that's that's like standard in corporate America. >> But that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
236That's a different to Amber's point, Brian. Like I did not go and work in the VA because I want to make the most money I possibly can. >> And it's not it's not designed to make >> It's a different entity. >> But it's not designed for you to make the most money. >> Sometimes you cannot take your business experience and exactly apply it to public education. It's not apples and >> I mean in in Brian's defense, I mean we do [laughter] we do have at the at the director level. I mean if you don't perform you might not get renewed on your contract, right? >> And that's very that's very real. >> space >> Yeah, so it's there's a downside to it, but then he's talking about adding an upside. You know, to a point
237where it's not a bad idea if you're you've got a district that's that's stagnant or decreasing maybe need somebody says, "Hey, I'm willing to take the risk." And if it doesn't succeed, I'm going to lose my job, you know, but if it does succeed, these changes I'm going to make maybe I'll get a bonus. So, again, I think that's something contract time you can discuss. I don't know that we can >> I know our superintendent is not in favor of >> He's not, but I wanted to share I just wanted to share one >> I'm not I I just want to say from a value proposition, I get it and I'd be in favor of it. I don't think it works in public education or any government entity where taxation is the revenue source because
238there has to be I how you going to control that? Now, you did say something uh Director Thompson I I I think would be an approach that if you wanted to rally around it would be to lower that base salary and create incentives in there so that you're staying within that market rate and that might incentivize, but you know, if I'm a superintendent I can and I'm looking for a job and I could go here where I don't have to deal with that and I go there, you know, I go it goes back to what Matt was saying is you know, hey, do I want to take those kinds of risks? Um And everybody's situation's different, so >> Let's Let's Let's make sure we're on the same page. Channel 5 News KSTP had an article
239out on October 15th, 2025. Uh they had superintendent compensations and Dr. David Law, Minnetonka Public Schools, makes $298,000 as a salary. Plus, he has the ability to earn up to 59,000 a year in performance pay if he meets certain goals. So, he's getting paid 350. >> Well, it's like a salary. >> our current contract, I think the superintendent is what? Two-ish, 250-ish or something like that. And below, you know, Minnetonka. And Osseo's 280, Anoka's 280. And so, again, it's not unheard of, but it's it's one of those where if we're going to create metrics and goals, uh is there something that we want to consider? And while what if there's back backlash? There might be, but you know what? Then what if they're backlash because they want an incentive? Well, yeah, then let's make sure
240that if they're if they hit their metrics, cool. Then let's give everybody incentives. Like I'm okay with that if if we can show progress, proficiency in reading and math, but >> But maybe for another day in an alternate universe. >> I'm going to say that I feel like we have a better superintendent. >> [laughter] >> No, David Law's pretty good. >> So, >> I'm I'm just I'm reading what what it says. I'm not saying that we need to do it, but >> maybe we can look at Minnetonka's contract and if and when we need to recruit a new superintendent, that should be part of that contract. But What Does anyone have any suggestions on Is this document close to where you would hope it would be? Are you wanting something substantially different? Paul. >> Yeah,
241if I Michael you said something earlier that I think was spot on and that you took great notes last year. Because if you remember the conversations we all had up at the DS about metrics about common you know you you were all sitting in the same seats I were. So you a lot of that is in here. So bravo to that. So to answer your question Amber, I'd say well 85 90% of this I'm personally I'm satisfied with. Now we do have to come to agreement on metrics and what that number should be. Um and I do think that we should run parallel uh run two parallel rabbit trails even though we may not have common assessment and current alignment because I am aligned with Matt on this. Um we can't say let's just not
242do it or let's forget it because it'll never happen. And if we use what we have but we're running a parallel with the with the common assessment and the and the current alignment I'm not sure how we ever find out who's proficient and who's not if nobody's motivated to take the MCAs and all those other tests. They are motivated when they're in the classroom. And they've got to take a test or they >> Yeah, I'm not suggest I'm suggesting that I add something in here. And I know you said so it doesn't have to be parallel. It'll be I'll put it in here but obviously we got to get agreement around what that is and I need to do a little more homework to to get it there and I'll come back with Um, with
243that as well as some numbers here that we can maybe kick the can around on those. >> Okay, I think that sounds good. >> like in our next work session, cuz >> Mhm. >> you can kind of come back with that some of that. >> When is that? So >> July. Or do you want things to be done by then? >> it it is I'll probably be in Tahiti. >> Oh, good. Really? >> I don't know. >> [laughter] >> My wife is My wife's like, "You got to take a vacation." >> Definitely too, yes. >> So, I always look at July because >> So, it has been mentioned that sometimes the board takes a break in July. >> Yeah, we used to do that every year. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. July was uh >>
244If you >> Maybe I'll run into you, Brian, on the golf course or something. >> Most school boards do. >> Yeah, many other school boards do not meet in July. So >> But, I'm not suggesting that. Please do not That's a different conversation. I just want to make sure that >> Mhm. >> I'm physically here to do that and >> wouldn't take July. We have too many policy discussions to take a break. >> Yeah, exactly. And >> I think it's a bad idea. >> I mean, I can also I can also make sure that you get a read-ahead opportunity so that, you know, we we don't have so much homework to do right here. >> you putting this thing out there and thinking through this. Thank you. >> This is good. >> Good. >> Yeah,
245Brian. >> So, my last comment is I do like the framework. I like the four goals. I think it's good. Again, what are we doing for metrics and then what are we doing for initiatives? But, I also want to be mindful that ideally we should be having these conversations in October, November in Q4 so that whatever we want to plan for the next school year is part of the budget budgetary budgetary discussions in January so that he's he has the additional staffing and resources >> Mhm. >> and then and then training over the summer so that whatever plan >> Mhm. >> we align in in October can have the opportunity to be implemented in September. And so you don't have this opportunity. You don't have You don't You don't have January to to find the
246resources um uh do the training materials, get the team aligned. So you would be going really fast. So I just want to be mindful of like short-term goals, things that are probably achievable in this window, and then revisit this back in October. >> Yeah. >> Setting the stage for next year. >> Mhm. >> That's all. >> And I think the good thing is a lot of this builds on what you've already been focused on. >> Yes. >> So this is not new things. >> That was the goal. >> Yeah. So not it's not really new new initiatives necessarily. It's already in progress. >> Right. It's reinforcing. Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Good to see it in the structure and all summarized in the way it is. >> Like the dashboard. I loved it. I'm glad that
247the campus that the uh the dashboard is built up because when we were at the Lakeville City Council meeting, like I I had that popped up and the lady to the right of me, I forgot her name. She was um >> Mhm. >> She I think she did the zoning or the the boundary or something like that. And and we were looking at, you know, um uh stats, enrollments, and like that like I love that. Like that was great to be able to have. Yeah. So. >> Great. Okay, anything else for tonight, anybody? >> No. >> I just want to thank each of you for at least giving me the feedback I need. So thank you for that. >> Yeah. Great. All right, we're adjourned. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> Wait. >> All right. >>
248There's [laughter] more. >> What? >> Congratulation was super fun. So good job for putting it together. Uh all the kids they went through the process. It was awesome. So I don't I I know a lot of work behind the scenes went into it. I don't I didn't see it other than we were there, we were present, we did handshakes, and um >> So I got your your uh critique feedback. I got Kim's. And I'm I I am just doing an all call for if if there are others because we're we're doing a AAR uh on the 23rd internally to do the you know the review of that so >> What is the AAR Samfire? >> Oh I'm sorry after action review. >> Okay, thank you. >> Um So I want to capture all that and
249then I think there's also a conversation about and this is something I will will bring back to the board um what are options for for next year um and you know cuz I I I don't think we have unanimity that we want to stay here but I think the after action needs to happen first so that I can talk uh in detail about you know what are the trade-offs um It does it does cost us more to do it here than Maryucci was charging us just so you know. Oh yeah. Yeah. So um that you know I know everybody's financially conscious around here uh and I want to be >> fund? A little bit. >> Well it's all general fund anyway. I mean Maryucci was general fund. >> but it was it was more than
250Maryucci. >> It was it's more than Maryucci but um you know the other I I don't want to do the AAR now but I just want to make sure you know that I'm not like okay this is the only option uh and we probably as as a school board and myself as a superintendent need to have the conversation with you about what are some other options and do we want to consider them and my driving issue well I I'll honestly say I have two one is financial >> [clears throat] >> the second one is nobody wants to make the weather call. You do not want that in your life. Um but I think having a contingency is is important. I think we did have a contingency. I don't know we didn't have to to it.
251Thank the good Lord. Um Um But, that's just not a fun thing either, so just Well, it Here's how it goes. You guys will say stuff to me, and then the rest of the staff will be, you know, like everybody's ringing their hands, "Oh, what's the superintendent going to do? What's the superintendent >> [laughter] >> Cuz nobody wants to make that decision. I'm not afraid to make the decision. There's a lot of anxiety associated with it, cuz you want the kids and the families and the community to have a wonderful experience. Um You know, we didn't have to go inside, but if we have to go inside, I think you guys are going to have a little different experience. Not be Not at the ceremony itself, the aftermath. >> I didn't even ask you. I'm
252like, "I don't need to put more pressure on you to feel like you have to make one way or another a decision." >> I know. I talked to Jason. I talked to Jason, and it's like, you know, no superintendent wants that in their world, but, you know, >> call when there's a snow day. I mean, it's >> so much easier. Yeah, I'll tell you the secret to that. I'll tell [laughter] you the secret to that if you want to talk. >> Thank Thank you. >> All right. Bye, everybody. >> I Yeah, I miss seeing both of them, and also the awkwardness of the stage situation.