School Board Study Session - July 22, 2025

001[Music] This special session of the Independent School District 535 School Board is called to order at 5:30 p.m. on Tuesday, July 22nd, 2025 in room 137 of the Edison building. The board acknowledges this site and all RPS sites are situated on the ancestral land of the Dakota people and we honor the Dakota nations and the sacred land of all indigenous peoples. Present at this meeting are school board members, Superintendent Kent Pel, a non- voting exeicio member and assistant school board clerk, Miss Anne Kramer. Miss Kramer, will you please call the role? >> Treasurer Nathan >> here, >> director >> here. >> Vice >> here. >> At this time, we offer the opportunity to say the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for

002which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Item 2.1 is approval of the agenda. Are there any changes to the agenda? >> Second. >> It has been moved and seconded to approve the agenda. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed. The agenda has been approved. The agenda and documents for this meeting are available online at rochesterchools.org/simly. Our next agenda item is an action item, the approval of the long-term facilities maintenance plan. The board reviewed this item under prep for action at the July 15th meeting. I'll read the resolution, ask for a motion, and second, and if received, will open the floor for additional information and discussion. It resolved that the school board of Independent School District 535 does hereby approve the 10-year long-term facilities maintenance plan

003for the school year 20 26, 2027. It has been moved and seconded. Any discussion? >> Hearing none. All those in favor of the resolution say I. >> I. >> Opposed. The resolution has been approved. And hearing no other business, this special session is adjourned at 5:33 p.m. The study session of the Independent School District 535 School Board is called to order at 5:33 p.m. on Tuesday, July 22nd, 2025 in room 137 of the Edison building. The board acknowledges this site and all RPS sites are situated on the ancestral land of the Dakota people and we honor the Dakota nations and the sacred land of all indigenous peoples. Present at this meeting are school board members, Superintendent Kent Pel, a non- voting exeicio member, and assistant school board clerk, Miss Anne Kramer. Miss Kramer, will you

004please call the role? >> Here >> at this time, we offer the opportunity to say the pledge allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Item 2.1 is approval of the agenda. Are there any changes to the agenda? Move approval. >> Second. >> It has been moved and seconded to approve the agenda. All those in favor say I. >> I. Any opposed? The agenda has been approved. The agenda and documents for this meeting are available at rochesterchools.org/asssembly. >> Our first item tonight is a focus topic facilities strategy. Superintendent. >> Thank you, Chair Nathan. I want to start out by welcoming Mike Stock who is our new director of facilities uh working in

005the office of administration. Mike uh many of you may previously know uh was our health and safety guru and as somebody who has uh uh known our physical infrastructure well. Um we had some wonderful applicants for his position which we created as part of the reorganization that you approved this summer. So uh it's great to see you Mike and uh looking forward to your leadership. Um I'm going to turn it over to John to give the board uh an overview. Um, but just briefly to frame the difference between the action that you just took in special session and the discussion we're having now in study session. The long-term facilities maintenance plan of course uh as you well know is required uh for all school districts uh and that has to be updated by the end

006of this month. And there are significant constraints as John described at our your last meeting with what those dollars can be spent for. those dollars do not cover all of the physical infrastructure needs of a school district like ours. And so in talking with the chair and vice chair, we decided to um closely schedule but separate the LTFM plan review and approval from a longer term strategy discussion of our facilities. The um overview that John is going to give you tonight is truly for discussion purposes starting with the school board and then certainly extending to other stakeholders in the early fall and then we will work with the chair and vice chair to put decisions on the board calendar over the year ahead as we begin to move forward. We're not of course asking for

007action at a study session, but we want your ideas and your input. We've been working on this as one of our key initiatives throughout the current school year. And um I think the final point that I would make and as you can expect I'll be jumping into John's presentation at some key moments as I want to do. Um this was a much more ambitious plan when we started um meaning larger reorganization of learning spaces um tied to both educational purposes and uh office space. As our enrollment projection and our financial realities have become clearer, even including the passage of the 2024 referendum, we have gotten uh more practical, pragmatic, and limited. And so we are going to give you an overview of what I see as a limited number of strategic decisions about facilities that

008I will recommend uh I believe that you take over the course of the remainder of the calendar year 2025 such that these decisions would be made by the end of the calendar year. But even though they're more limited than I was thinking about when we started this, they're not insignificant. There are some significant shifts in our physical infrastructure here. Um, some of which would move us out of a long-standing and well-known facility. Another of which would uh significantly upgrade a facility that serves arguably the highest need students in our district. So, with that, I'll turn it over to John. He's going to break it down by by building and then we will turn it uh over to your questions and re reactions tonight. >> Very good. Thank you, Superintendent Vel. Chair Nathan, it's my pleasure

009to be here with Mike uh as the director of facilities to give you uh some insight into some work we've been doing over the uh last school year and um some recommendations that ultimately the superintendent as you said will make to you more formally uh in a future session. So first off uh some goals that we are trying to address through the conversation that we're starting tonight. First, we want to make sure that our educational and our operational spaces uh fit the needs of our students first and then our staff second. We, as we've been talking about declining enrollment and our projections into the future, we do believe that uh our physical space should adjust to that uh reality as well, meaning we should have or could have less space and free up less um

010uh fixed cost. And that's really point number three, aligning to appropriate spaces, improving our financial uh efficiency, and looking out as best we can for future needs. So, I'm going to talk about the Fredell building first. I took that picture off of Google Maps a couple weeks ago. Uh it was kind of strategic the angle that I took because I wanted you to see um a couple points. And that first, you're at a major intersection here. You're at uh the most uh traveled intersection. all of Rochester, Broadway and Highway 14 where they intersect. Uh you've got the county which owns property right to the east of us there. That's signified by the uh corn tower in the picture. And then you've got other properties that are um next door to us that are in need

011of um upkeep and uh redevelopment as well. So the picture is trying to capture a couple different things there for you. Current uses of fidel. So, first off, uh the Rochester Academy for Independent Living. This is uh a special education facility. It's a setting four, I believe, and it is primarily for our learners who are 18 to 21 years old who are working on transitioning uh uh into uh adulthood, but they have not graduated officially from Rochester public schools yet. It is also the site of the middle school alternative learning center. We used to call that the middle school right fit fit program through the 23 24 school year and then upon your approval of the middle school ALC that became the home uh in the last school year. And then finally it is the

012gymnasium that we are using for our high school gymnastics program right now. Current uh estimate of number of students involved in gymnastics is approximately 25 students across um all three of our comprehensive high schools. Fredell has some strengths. Um, it is a facility that has a a relatively decent commercial kitchen, a relatively new gymnasium, and it's well located near public transportation. What's shifting over time in that area is the city of Rochester's plan to make that a much more walkable transit oriented destination. And so what that means in practicality is is the city foresees down the road that being a place of redevelopment where things are very walkable um and it looks different from what it does today. And then county as I mentioned has been acquiring property to both um either redevelop andor expand

013uh to the Graham Park area surrounding uh Fredell. There are challenges with Fredell though. Uh the most obvious one is if you've been to Fredell, you know that the older part of the building, so the 1960s uh portion of the building is in dire need of uh deferred maintenance. And that includes mechanical, plumbing, uh electrical, and surface upgrades. And so, um if we are to keep that building, we know that at current cost, it's about $14 million. Uh I call that the minimum. um because as we get into it, sometimes prices rise as we find more problems as we start pulling things apart. But $14 million of upgrades would be needed to just keep it maintained uh and get it back to um uh like new condition. One thing that we did not add after

014we passed the 2019 referendum was a secure entry. We kind of started to know at that time the future of Fredell was uncertain and so we did not take um uh time to put extra cost into the building and put that secure entrance on. Another issue is outdoor green space um has been an issue. So prior to when Fredell Middle School was operated there, we actually leased land at from the county uh nearby. So students had to walk to get to their green space down the road. Um, I think it's a common misunderstanding that the grass right at the corner of that busy intersection is is not Fidel property. That is actually state of Minnesota property. And so really, we've been uh granted an access easement to use that from the uh state of Minnesota,

015but that's not our actual lawn there, even though we are maintaining it as such. And then, as mentioned before, we have um neighbors nearby that are in various um stages of um redevelopment needed. And um so I think there is some good news and that the Denny's was on the market, off the market, on the market. I think it's off the market again, but potentially being redeveloped as another restaurant type of property there. One big thing, and this is the week of the of the fair, and so when there are big activities there, it is um difficult to access Fredell. And so that um Jackie could probably speak to that um that it's not a very convenient week to be over at Fidel or trying to get in and out of Fredell right now. pretty

016easy to convince the people that took your parking money that you're really not going to the fair, you're going to Fidel, but you do have to stop and explain that. >> Part of our work this last school year is we went out, we met with both of the principles or assistant principles that operate the two programs mentioned there and got their um feedback and there are positives uh from their perspective. rail values, the spacious bathrooms, uh the cooking facilities, the carpeted floors, and proximity to transit. Those are actually um in their um mind very um beneficial to the program that they're operating, transitioning, uh students to adulthood. The middle school ALC, they've been able to expand. They've really uh grown into that building. They have plenty of space to do their mental health support, science

017labs, community services, and as mentioned, some of that green space that isn't technically our green space, but they are using it um for some limited u movement activities outside. So, this is the recommendation that the superintendent will likely make to you. Um we feel it is best to move rail and the middle school ALC out of this property. and we feel it's best to list the property for sale. Um, when discussions with a local realtor who represents our district in transactions, he's estimating a list price of approximately 3.6 to $4.4 million. So, I think probably the question that would be on people's mind is where would you potentially move rail and middle school ALC? And so, that one I'm going to punt um or turn over to the superintendent if you'd like to comment on

018that. >> Thanks. Um, no, we we know that it's important. We we um it's not fair to even raise an issue like this without giving you a sense of what we think the best possibility is, but there is much more analysis to be done. um the rail program which is uh as John said uh older students with uh disabilities and uh our middle school ALC uh middle school kids who uh are really doing quite well in a very small structured setting distinct from our larger traditional middle schools work very well together. And so the starting point for the analysis that we would be conducting in the outreach early in the fall is keeping them together because it actually has been um without any negative incidents and with quite a few positive um interactions um and

019we've had leaders that have really uh embraced being colllocated. They haven't done uh programming that has been coordinated but it has gone well. And so our sense is that given as John said at the outset the urgent urgent need that we face to maximize space given declining enrollment um we'd be looking for a facility where they could be colloccated. The most likely possibility for that is in one of our two elementary school buildings that is actually significantly under subscribed in terms of enrollment and those two are Sunset Terrace and Gage right now. And so those are two schools that if we do nothing uh tied to enrollment patterns and attendance boundaries are likely to remain significantly underutilized. Um and so we would look at moving rail and middle school ALC together into one of those

020buildings appropriately located. as John mentioned, uh, bus access is a big part of the rail program for those young adults, uh, getting some of those life skills. So, we would consider that. And then, uh, replicating the strategy we've used successfully with Longfellow and Pinewood of housing two independent elementary schools in the same building. As we learned, uh, slightly more than two years ago, we need to do the math. We have done the initial math about uh, that prospect. We believe it could work in the right facility, but of course we know that that's something that requires input and would be significantly changed. Those two schools are also um relatively close to each other geographically, but if we took that step, it would require the redistribution of some students who attend those schools to other schools

021which actually may be closer to their homes. that when the attendance boundaries were drawn and this as you all know predates me uh but I was uh somewhat surprised to learn that in or just given the numbers of kids that were in some of our elementary buildings at that time we have some students traveling further from uh what might be uh Gibbs Elementary for instance to get to one of those schools than we actually might otherwise need to have and the you know I'm going to be a broken record in the next few months saying how do we make an opportunity of declining enrollment wherever we can even as we work to increase enrollment. Um and there are some opportunities. We are not bursting at the seams uh in most of our elementary schools like

022we were when those uh decisions were made. So there would be some limited reassignment of students. Um uh we uh did that successfully in this school year as we implemented our start times. I think we've learned that if we are very uh transparent and collaborative with families and we make sure they know that the school option they're being reassigned to is a great one um and has wonderful programming options. I think it's never easy but we've learned how to do that and it would be again a very limited number of students and you would need to do that because the kids have to fit in that combined building. So right now that would be the working theory. Collocation of two elementary schools and collocation of rail and middle school ALC in their um areas. So

023think I thought as as John and I were chatting it's important that I tell you that that is our best working theory and we would have um uh time and of course the commitment to do our homework on the degree to which that would be an effective strategy. I I I gave a lot of thought to keeping Fredell. I love the idea of this building geographically located it where it is. I was at a meeting today with community leaders sponsored by Destination Medical Center. As John alluded to, they have pretty exciting and grandiose plans for that part of the city, but they're all far off. They're none of them are immediate. Let let me get out the checkbook and take Fidel. And when you look at a building that is maybe $3.6 6 million that

024needs a basement bottom $14 million upgrade that has got very limited parking options for us to expand it. Um there's a real issue there. The second issue that I wanted to highlight before I turn it back to John to finish our walk through these buildings is the gym at uh Ryell has been our only option for gymnastics and our gymnastics program um I I I cannot say is is thriving in terms of numbers but it has seen an uptick in the last couple of years and of course we love providing extracurricular opportunities to all students. We do not have currently another viable space for gymnastics. One of the hard realities, and I know board members have gotten emails about this, is that when we have had gymnastics in the gym at Fredell, that's not equipment

025that you can just roll up every day after practice. And so we have for months at a time had uh our students um in two programs where the kids need a lot of support without access to a gym. And many families and others and staff at Rail and Middle School LLC have described this as a deep equity issue. We also have had nowhere else to do gymnastics. We've looked at community settings. Um we've looked at other space elsewhere. So that's another issue that we will have to grapple with while we move forward with this. Um we know that a neighboring district had to end uh gymnastics be based on enrollment and challenges with finding gym space. That obviously is not my preferred option. I I think it's important for board members to know that were

026we to do that we would still be in compliance with federal title n requirements in terms of the number of girls sports that we offer. So we would be able to do that. um should we so choose. Um and and we really have done our due diligence looking for gym space of the kind that you could allocate um either permanently or for months at a time for gymnastics. And we thus far have come up short. And so there is a point where um we have to accept that most of our decisions in the next years ahead are going to be uh trade-offs uh and hard calls. And so that gymnastics piece is something that does also loom in this conversation. But I wanted to add that context or subtext maybe um and then I think

027I'll turn it back to John. You can walk us through the rest and then we can return to this subject or anything else that you're um thinking about. >> Great. Thank you. Um Educational Services Center located on 16th Street Southeast. That's a picture. Um the cones were not from this year, but it kind of describes what Rochester feels like driving around right now. Cones everywhere. Uh the the facade of that building is a a material I believe is called EFS and I'm forgetting exactly what that acronym stands for, but that is in disrepair and also needs uh work. And so we actually do have work at this building scheduled on our long-term facility maintenance plan that you just approved um to deal with that, deal with roofs, deal with windows, those types of normal long-term

028facility maintenance things you need to do to keep a building operating into the future. But that visual I think helps describe and you would really see it if you went up close to the building some of the issues that we um need to deal with at that building. So how do we use uh ESC as we sometimes call it here today? We have Phoenix Academy over there that is again is another special education setting for program. We have our care and treatment program. So there are uh a couple residential facilities. Um, it's not called Vonwald anymore. I'm blanking on the name. I think it's like 180 or something like that. Uh, they drive the students that are staying there because that's within our district boundaries over to the ESC building. We have a couple classrooms

029there uh where we provide education uh for those students uh within our boundaries. And then we also have our district's curriculum warehouse uh in the middle of the building uh which stores materials um and supplies for um our teachers and other educators use. Strengths of the ESC facility. Um one, it does include a secure entrance. That is something that was done after the last referendum. It has a wood shop that the students use over there. That was an addition uh that we put on um a few years back once we moved the printing center out of there. And uh there are appropriate seclusion rooms that we've invested heavily in um at that facility. It does lack um a kitchen and a gym. It also is surrounded by railroad tracks and other industrial properties. So it

030is relatively boxed in and um sometimes the neighborhood um while I think they are very accepting of the students and the staff at uh Phoenix Academy um sometimes um we get comments about where uh Phoenix Academy is located just because of the surroundings around there. We believe um that the kitchen and gym are issues that we can deal with if we're looking at this as a bigger picture which we'll we'll talk about here in a moment. Uh again in our stakeholder feedback when we went and met with the principal at Phoenix Academy uh they uh expressed a desire to remain at this facility. Uh we looked at other options of where could we put this program that might be a different space for them might be um deemed as an upgrade to them and actually

031there was a strong preference to actually stay in this space that it has been developed u really nice for them on the inside minus the kitchen and gym issue that we need to address but they really want to actually stay in this facility. Um one thing we would have to deal with is the curriculum warehouse. So, if we were to deal with the gym and the uh kitchen issue, we believe we have to deal with the curriculum warehouse issue at the same time. So, our recommendation for ESC is to um no surprise since it's on the long-term facility maintenance plan you just approved, but to invest in the work that we already have planned, uh to do those infrastructure upgrades to the um exterior of the building and and maintain it soundly for the years

032ahead. uh repurpose the curriculum warehouse space into a gym or a movement area and install a commercial kitchen, permanently rename the building to Phoenix Academy. So instead of calling it the educational services center and then having Phoenix Academy at ESC, we just rename it ESC. And then we do know that we need to have some further evaluation of the care and treatment program and the spe and the students with unique needs program. It's kind of a subdivision of Phoenix Academy. Um, it may or may not be appropriate to keep the Sun program in that facility, but that's something that we need more engagement with the staff and leadership of that school uh before we can make that call. >> So, um, thanks John. Okay. Um, just to be sure all board members know, a setting

033for facility is a uh federally authorized uh designation for a facility for kids who uh cannot be well served in a traditional facility uh requiring much smaller class sizes and specific uh configurations of the rooms often involving bathrooms. sometimes seclusion rooms which we use in very authorized and controlled ways when kids are disregulated. Um we regularly have kids in the district who need to be in a setting for a facility who sometimes themselves but frequently their parents or caregivers don't want to go to what is really a very wonderful program because it looks terrible. Um I would not say that it's nice. I would say it's functional. um that that and they and they have said they've said it's functional. We've never spent money to actually make Phoenix Academy look good, which we've done. And

034so there would be cosmetic improvements that I think are very meaningful, especially as you're a parent considering sending your child to a facility that um up till now never had a kitchen, never had a gym, um and was not designed in the way that many of our other buildings have been to be aesthetically pleasing without breaking the bank. We're not going to actually try and make it look like a luxury resort, but um even the outside exterior that John was pointing out um it doesn't look good and people draw conclusions from that. Our neighbors there who, as John mentioned, have been very good neighbors. They do have barb wire around their uh their um businesses. That's their prerogative. I don't think it's about our kids. It's about, you know, security. Uh, one of the questions

035I've said is, are there some ways we can change the sight lines so that when you're walking into Phoenix or you're at least in the parking lot, you're not seeing the barbed wire that is uh on the neighboring properties? So, I do want to highlight I think there are some targeted aesthetic improvements that we should make there. Um, I want to thank Mona and her team for the positive response they gave when I said, "I want that warehouse out of there. I don't care if we have to put it under my desk because those kids urgently need a space to move and um they have had nothing um in that space and um I also think they need a kitchen. Now there the cost of the kitchen is something we're really going to have to

036work on because a full commercial kitchen there has got and of course I'm out of my depths here but there's major plumbing work that has to be done but if you talk to the kids as I've done and staff and our food service has done the best they can to bring the food in but it's cold hot dogs for some of our kids in the highest needs uh situation and and our nutrition services in the last year and a half or so has worked really hard to um enhance that but it's still not that space. So I personally consider it a moral imperative to improve that facility. Um and um I think you all know if you don't you should. Rob Scripture who is just an extraordinary leader. You know I've said to Rob Rob

037you've made do you've long enough uh we need to come in and John's right there are major improvements like um the shop uh and things like that that they've made great use of. I think um that that this is a targeted opportunity to invest in the equity agenda in the district for our kids that are the highest needs um in the system. Um so this is one that I want to and and board members will remember that you approved the withholding of a targeted $6 million fund for future facilities and technology technology upgrades when you approved the financial strategy. those dollars would pay for the nonLTFM aspects of this project. And so, uh, we know that in this budgetary environment, we don't take any investment lightly, but I really do believe that this is an

038imperative. Um, as John mentioned, we really looked for other facilities around the um, community where we could relocate this program. And somewhat to my surprise, I came away not only like okay with keeping it there, but actually pretty excited about it if we put in place some of these uh improvements uh to strengthen it. So, thanks for letting me, you know, jump in with this one. I know you know that it's one I feel pretty strongly about. >> Yep. >> All right. Mighty Oaks. So, Mighty Oaks is out on 50th Avenue Southeast. That's a current picture as of a couple weeks ago. um that as you know that school has officially had their last class go through there as of the end of the last school year and we are in process of picking them

039up and moving them to the former Pinewood Elementary School here in a few in a couple weeks so they can launch the new uh school year there. So we have this uh facility sitting there and um we have some uh commentary about that too. So uh as mentioned we're we're going to be out of there. We're going to schedule to do the move shortly after August 1st. It is a wonderfully built um early learning school. Um it has a great playground, age appropriate fixtures throughout the building. Our biggest challenge with this property has been convincing parents to put their kids there because of the remote location and it being actually closer to um other school districts rural beyond the Rochester public school lines than it actually is to our own school buildings within our boundaries.

040So um where it's located has definitely been an issue for um us to deal with. We recommend that we actually step out of this facility that we put it on the market. This isn't a surprise to a couple of the board members who were here 15ish years ago uh when it was put on the uh market back then, but then deemed it could be uh reutilized. Uh we think that the current value of that building is approximately 600 to 800,000. I think it would be a great um uh child care center or it even could be worked into Marian Township. So those are some of the conversations we want to have with people um if you were to act upon this recommendation. skyline. This picture also is as of a couple weeks ago. You cannot

041find a picture of this building on Google Maps. The uh Google cars don't go down this uh street or this driveway, I don't believe. Um this was a school that uh has been around, but it has been vacant since 1976. Um, in the mid 1970s, uh, the school district was also dealing with a declining enrollment situation. And in around 1976, I believe Horus man, Skyline, Bandelle, and Oronco schools were all closed around the same time period because of declining enrollment and consolidation uh, was happening at that time too. Since that time, this building has sat there for almost 50 years now. It's been primarily just used for storage. Um although there is not much in there at this point, um we believe that its value is in redevelopment that that would make a perfect site

042for adding on to the residential neighborhood that already exists in the area there. This building, if you would like to meet me out there sometime for a tour, you would find that there are no utilities. The windows are boarded up. There are structural structural deficiencies. the building likely cannot be um continued to be used. So that is just a way of saying I think it probably is going to end up being torn down um by whoever um has this property in the future. So our recommendation or the superintendent is going to recommend to you that we also put this one on on the market. This one has a kind of a wide price point because it really depends if it if it's sold to a residential developer, it's going to be on the low end.

043if there were a possibility to have it upzzoned and make it more of a commercial or industrial type of property, the value does increase. Um, so we're going to have to have some conversations about what is the type of listing that we want to portray there. Okay, where we sit right now, Edison. So, in the middle of the historic southwest neighborhood is where we sit in a school building uh that has been converted to a central office facility. Um, we know that we can squeeze up to about 120 people into this building by um stuffing uh multiple desks in in offices and we've made it work. It's not an ideal office location, but it does work and it is um has value for the district and that it is at least centrally located. Our issue

044with this building is that it was built in 1915, so it's 110 years old. It is um our oldest property that exists right now on our books and we also have $12 million of deferred maintenance here. Uh we don't have a secure entry. We also chose not to do that at the time of uh following the referendum as we were trying to decide what's the long-term future of this building. We do believe that visitor access here is somewhat confusing and that would be something that if we're going to keep it that we would try to improve and make a meaningful but limited investment into trying to um improve access to this building. We've done a lot of leg work on this one. We have looked at alternative office spaces in our community either for sale

045or for lease. So where could we put 120 employees elsewhere? Um there are options out there. Uh there are uh places for sale, there are places for lease. We're having we are struggling with finding where's that centrally located space where 120 uh people could have offices um and also not be so central that that now we have to start paying for parking. In other words, being right in the core of downtown. So there's just a lot of moving parts and a lot of issues with this. We've also spoken to the city of Rochester because you may not know, but this was a residential neighborhood. This is zoned residential. We're not even really supposed to have an office building here. You can have schools in residential zones, but you can't have offices. So, there's going to

046be some reckoning at some point if this building is going to be something different other than a Rochester public school building, uh, that it might not even meet the zoning um requirements at that point. So, we've we've engaged in discussions about what could be the future of this property. It is right on the line. That other side of the street right out there um is zoned um a little bit higher, meaning it can be denser than what this property is. So, there'd be have to be some discussion about could that zoning move over here because that would actually improve the value of this land if it were to be sold at some point for redevelopment into some sort of housing. So that's just a long way of saying that right now our recommendation is to

047continue using this building as is and try to defer as much maintenance as we can uh while we continue to explore options. We don't have the the smoking gun option, so to speak, for right now on what to do with this building other than a few limited but meaningful upgrades that we could make to improve visitor access, especially those families new to our district who are coming to register or enroll in our district. That's point number two that I had there. >> Would you like to make any commentary on this one, Superintendent? >> Uh, no. Just amplify that last point. I do think we need to invest in the space that families use to enroll their kids down the hall. If you've been in the building, you see little kids, there's there's two little chairs

048to sit. There's a window that people come to. Um we we can in a costeffective way improve that space for registration. Um we looked at other, you know, uh options to deal with the entrances and things like that. And I think we probably need to stay here for a while until another uh preferable option comes up, but the family registration space is I think a really urgent um urgent need. And so that would be something that we'd put on the list for the very near future. >> Y >> All right. A a property that most people have driven by many times but have probably never realized it's a Rochester Public School property. This is the what I call the former DNR property. So, this is at the corner of RCTC and um right across from

049the uh athletic complex. So, where the what would be the football stadium essentially. We own the lot right across the street from there. It's vacant land, 17 acres near RCTC. The biggest challenge we're going to have with this property and why probably we haven't done anything with it is access is limited and development is constrained by deed restrictions and traffic regulations. So what I mean by that is I think our biggest challenge is ever going to be actually getting a driveway into our property. It's too close to the major stoplight there. And so whenever you have properties by stop lightss, they're trying to make driveways and accesses f far far enough away from that so you don't create accidents trying to get in and out of the property in conflict with uh traffic signals. That

050means the workaround to that is probably going to be access through neighborhoods which aren't one of them is not even developed yet. So, we're trying to work with the land owner and the property owner there who has ideas for developing into apartments to the northeast of this property and going through a developed neighborhood um directly to the east of this property. Um again, I think that's going to be challenging to figure out what's the right type of RPS program or school site to put there in the future. At this point, this property costs us nothing. We don't do anything to maintain it. We're not in trouble with anybody for not maintaining it. It's sitting there. It's vacant land. Um I think the the right strategy is to hold it. Uh we really can't sell it.

051If we decide we never want to do anything with it, the deed restriction is we have to give it back to the state of Minnesota so that we take it back at that point and do something else with it. So it's not really land that we can speculate on and say we'll we'll sell that off for um luxury condos at some point. That's not going to happen. Oh, >> the other than the traffic restriction, is there anything else in the deed restrictions that that that makes it difficult to develop? It's mostly just an access issue. >> It has to be with a public purpose. So, um perhaps like Rochester public schools could work with RCTC or city of Rochester or county and jointly we could come up with some sort of public purpose for that

052property. That's kind of how the deed restriction reads. And then finally, um, we have the Shannon Oaks property. So, this is a picture taken, uh, off of Google Maps. Those trees, I think, unfortunately died in the last year and were removed this week. Um, so, uh, they were ash trees, but this is on 21st Street Northeast. Uh we sometimes call this the Century property or the C or the water tower property, but it's it's uh a nice parcel sitting there that was reserved when Shannon Oaks was developed and meant for a future RPS facility, TDD, on what that would be and when that would be. Um but it has been held for um 20 plus years at this point. So it's good vacant land. It's a 13 acres site. It it's near Century. It's a

053a desirable neighborhood. It's got a 7 acre park right next door to it that works very well for school and city that have parks side by side. Uh we do we handle that well at um Overland Gibbs other properties. So um where both parties uh agreed to do certain things and and mutually maintain the land. So the recommendation on this one is continue to hold it other than some maintenance. Mike's team goes up there and and had deal with those trees. We have to mow it a few times a year. Um, but I think it's a good hold for the future for a future elementary school should our enrollment uh picture uh change or um development patterns change or we need to replace a uh an old aging elementary school at some point. I think

054that's a good strategy to sit and hold on this property for a future use. two more items that we just wanted to mention that um and maybe superintendent, we didn't exactly talk about this one online or uh before the meeting here uh but we know that our leases on the RCTC campus for PEK and CEK programs are coming due on June 30th of the year ahead. And so we are beginning some exploratory conversations with leaders internally um about relocating the career and technical programs back to RPS sites. So that's with the express purpose of um one saving money on leases that we're paying to RCTC and two uh really encouraging those programs to grow within the high schools and um solving some of our operational and transportation issues of of pulling all of our kids

055to a centralized location for those types of classes. And then another issue with that is we would need to find a home office or a home location for our Minscync online school. Uh the current designated home office for Minsk is actually on the CEK uh for in the CEK building. So if we were to end that lease, we do need to think about where do we put the Minsc office staff and leadership team. I think that gets us to the end of the prepared and then it's open for discussion and conversation. Yeah, I'll just say a little bit on the PEC CEK piece because it for some in our community there may be a question, well, what does this mean when you have a strategy to prepare more kids to earn post-secary credentials and degrees?

056Um, the PEK and CEK facilities are on the RCTC campus, but no kids in either program work with RCTC faculty through that program. They're all with RPS staff. And uh with I met with Brandon McCraic who oversees both programs as well as our online school today. Um there is no facility that they use that doesn't or couldn't exist in one of our traditional high schools. They are not gaining access to lab space or other space that uh is uniquely situated in higher ed institution. Um, so we're busing kids across town and in addition to the impact that it has on kids not being able to walk by, you know, the facility in their high school and decide to take the class, um, plus the transportation cost, plus the rent. We build the schedules of our

057comprehensive high schools around moving several hundred kids across the city and back every day. And it has a huge impact on what we can do with scheduling in our schools. Um, I've shared with Dr. Jeff Boyd, the president at RCTC, that we need to take a look at this. He and I went over and looked at the space. They actually are looking for good space for some of their uh, educational priorities. So, this is something that will have to be handled with real um, skill because it's not uh, should we choose to uh, recommend this to you, it would not be backing off of our desire to have more kids in post-secary credit earning classes and career and technical fields especially. It would be bringing those back into the high schools and it would not

058be backing off on our partnership with RCTC on PSO and other functions. PSO classes are separate from PEK and CEK. PEK kids take PSO once they finish the courses taught by RPS teachers, but they would continue to do that. Um, and so that's actually once they're doing that, they're an RCTC student in the RCTC program. So that's a a real issue. Um the the origins of our being in the Hind Center on the RCTC campus were you know a public investment in creating that space. We're also confident that we have met that uh test of time and that the facility has been paid for and that RCTC would continue to be using that for a similar very positive public community interested purpose. But once again that is going to be uh like many of the

059issues we've talked about tonight uh complex. we have more homework to do. And we want to be really clear that um nobody who either is watching or hears about this confuses that possibility with us backing off on our commitment to have more kids earning college credit while they're in high school and uh entering fields that are often uh called what we used to call votech or career and technical fields. So with that, Madam Chair, that concludes our our overview of this uh set of issues that we're going to be eager to hear your questions and thoughts about. >> Um yeah, this is all uh all really helpful and it's uh um useful framing. I I was wondering just as we're talking about the the rail program, the middle school ALC program and the Phoenix Academy,

060um was there any one of the things that my mind went to, especially as we're talking about the open lots? Um was there any thought given to the possibility of building a facility for those three programs in particular? I don't know that they would necessarily work well colllocated, but um is that something that was analyzed and ruled out for one reason or another? I not sure. Just curious if there was any thought given to that. >> Yes, we've we talked about that. Um I think some challenges are how do you fund that? We know that we can use our lease levy authority in dealing and talking with our financial adviserss and talking about like what's the potential cost to get the square footage we roughly would need. We don't know that we have enough authority

061presently in Minnesota state statute to do that without possibly having to do something creative either through legislation which could be done or through some sort of voter approved referendum again. And so um at this point we didn't bring that forward as a as the main recommendation but it was considered >> recommendations program and I love the idea of having labs at high schools for kids to be able to My question is commercial labs in all the high schools. So that maybe it is possible space exists. Um but would that limit kids options? You know if you're a John Marshall kid and you want to class, but it's at Mayo. >> Yeah. Thank you, Dr. Marvin. It It's interesting because actually the welding space our kids are using is not ours, it's RCTC's. And they actually

062are kicking us out of it because their program is growing so fast in the future. And so that's the one area in which we might have and we do have, you know, welding bays in our high schools. That's one area in which we might have some physical infrastructure. Interestingly, in the commercial kitchen that is at CEK, we own all of that equipment. So, it's RPS owned and so there would potentially be the possibility of relocating it. Now, we have homework to do to actually see if that actually is viable, but that would be there's nothing special about that room that has it. I as as board members I know are aware I've been uh pulling together key issues that are going to be a subject of the board's discussion at its retreat on the next

063strategic plan in August. And very prominent in that list is a major investment in curricular pathways that lead to post-secary education and careers in our middle schools and especially high schools. Um, should we embrace that strategy through our strategic plan, I think we would have a very exciting and ambitious comprehensive effort to strengthen those kinds of pathways uh within our comprehensive high schools and the ALC. And so we would have a bigger initiative on our hands to bring that programming back into the high schools. As part of that strategy, we would need to ask which programs should exist in every school and which programs should be open to kids to travel across schools. Um there's travel that is supported and provided by the district, which we certainly do in some instances. We also uh have

064a real issue with quite a few of our buses going empty with high school kids who are getting to our buildings themselves. And so I think there's a possibility of saying if we can't afford to have for instance uh the kind of welding facility that really prepares kids to enter the field at all of our schools, can we transport students from our high schools to the high school that can maintain that facility or can students self-transport for the purposes of that class? And so that's the kind of thing we we would have to answer if we want to have it be a really durable system. We have to answer that as part of a multi-year strategic plan because it takes, as you well know from being a high school teacher, it takes building the curriculum,

065even more importantly than building the facility. And then we'd have to have the infrastructure. Um, but I'm quite sure that that's something I'm going to recommend to you would be a major focus of the next strategic plan. And then we would um we would do our homework to look at uh how we could uh make those things happen. But you're absolutely right. It would not be a small uh effort uh to do that. But if any of you have not been and we are not going to build a new high school for sure. Um but if anybody has been to Owatana High School and what they've done there with the whole building is built around career pathways, it's really quite extraordinary. Um and and it's really welldesigned so that you go into the nursing space

066and you go into welding and automotive tech and it's just almost makes you want to enter that field even if you're not interested, you know, in it because it's so uh uh nicely done. Um we maybe should take a field trip. Not that we can fully replicate it, but I think we can more than replicate the quality of the programming they have. And then there are some space issues that we may have to work through if we really want to ramp that up because as we all know those are the jobs that are going to be in this community. And so if we want to be preparing kids for that, we we need to make that a priority. >> Okay. So I I have some thoughts and they're they're my thoughts and we can do

067them in what we will. So, and I could I could I could be totally over in the weeds somewhere because I usually am and I'm okay with that tonight. Um, so I'm listening. I'm hearing everything. Um, familiar with almost all the sites we discussed. So, I'm looking through the Phoenix Academy and I'm going to say it. I don't see I don't I don't quite understand why they're so in love with that facility. Um, even when I'm reading through like their positives, um, the wood shop in a seclusion room to me. So, here here's my bright idea or my thought, and I don't know if you may have probably thought of this, but um, if we consider moving the rail and the uh, middle school ALC into another building would leave Fryale open, why can not

068Phoenix go over there? And the reason why I say this is because you said there's development, a time off, there will be an offer made, I believe, on that property at some point. They're going to want to buy that up for whatever developmental idea they have, which could potentially outweigh what we can purchase or sell the property for right now. But how do we hold on to a property with just having another property sit? Um, to me, having a facility that has a working commercial kitchen, so the kids are not eating cold hot dogs, far outweighs them having a pretty seclusion room. Um, I feel that a seclusion room in a workshop is much easier replicated in another building. Um, than tearing up a space to make a commercial kitchen. for I mean I'm sure

069if anybody's done any even home remodeling a commercial kitchen is a big um undertaking and and and it could become a really big headache. You know it's it's not it's one of the more complicated remodels to have to do. I mean putting in the gym would be easier. So I'm I'm just not clear on why um they have to stay in that space. I know that they have created, you know, made that space home. But if we have a facility that can potentially be there and then that gives us time to think of that gymnastic situation as well, you know, because even though they wouldn't have a gym for part of the year, it's still better than they they currently have no gym and no kitchen. So, have we considered any movement around holding that

070property? because I feel like out of all the properties that could probably potentially have the biggest increase for sale for holding it than some of the other properties. Um, and like I said, I could be off base there. Um, and then the my other question was about the Sun program and what that what does that program need and could it be facilitated if we said okay we'll use that a different school space or is there an objection completely to them moving into that space or am I somewhere else? >> Uh, thank you Dire Wright Warren and I was see John and Mike to jump in. We did look uh quite extensively at Fidell for um Phoenix Academy. Um there are two primary issues that were the reason that that was not the recommendation and that

071the recommendation that I'm anticipating I'll make though I haven't made it. That's what we're getting feedback from you on is to upgrade Phoenix. First was the uh the very significant cost of the core infrastructure work that needs to happen at Fredell which would then on top of that need to be replicating the facilities that are needed for a setting for facility. So it's a core issue of cost. It's a very I mean the 14 million is the bare basement. They're going to Alabama to get replacement parts for the you know HVAC that's in that building. So it was the cost piece. The second um was the the I think it's correct to say and now you could sort of hear me. I suggest I might have phrased it a little differently than than John did.

072um they feel that the that the location geographically of Phoenix works very well for the students they serve in terms of its location um in a place that's relatively easily accessible but not right in the middle of the city in that highest trafficked space in Rochester. There was significant concern some of they I want to be really careful here because I hate using deficit language about students but that for some of their students who are often trying to get focused on learning being in that very very not just public but uh distractionfilled part of the city might be less ideal that was the primary educational uh rationale but I absolutely take your point we looked at that I'm also not going to name all the facilities, but um we looked at other facilities. Um and

073once again, the geographic location was something that the team there uh felt was really important that where you go. Um and so the idea was well if if the where you go works pretty well, how do we upgrade the building so that the building is uh more effective? But we absolutely could take a look at other options. Again, that's the purpose of a study session like this. Absolutely. Um I don't know the degree to which Mona wants to, you know, add, but you know, our students in the sun program is relatively small number of kids. Um uh we have recently, as as you know, put in place, uh some some shifts in our special education um team and strategy, great great people, all still doing great work. Um, I have uh asked that Mona and

074that team take a deep look at all of our programming for those students that have our highest needs, not just limited the sun program. uh and kids who are often uh dealing with uh autism that creates particular challenges to self-regulation and focus, but that we really take a deep look at how all of our programs for students with disabilities, significant disabilities who are not often mainstreamed, as we try to do as much as we can, are located in the city. and that frankly we balance the educational impact of those programs and and and and many of them are wonderful with the cost because we have some very very high cost programming. So I think I'm glad John included the sun program so that it doesn't fall off. Um, I would agree with leadership at Phoenix

075that if we can find a location for those students um that meets their educational needs, they could be better served out of that facility. I don't know how much you had >> everyone in Phoenix. >> The son program. >> Oh, just the sun. Yeah, there are students with their the most severe profound disabilities with with significant behaviors. So you're um pretty aggressive behaviors in setting four. So yeah, it's >> but I we would be glad to come back to you with that issue as part of a larger discussion of our services for students with disabilities for sure. >> I would comment too on one reason we rolled out moving Phoenix Academy to the Fredell site is parking. Um, we know that we need about 80 parking spots to run Phoenix Academy and we have 68

076at Fredell. And so we looked at different ways of could we expand our property, our footprint. Could we buy the hotel? Could we buy the old Denny's and really putting pen to paper with our arch or our realtor and our construction manager? They strongly advised not to do that. They said the cost per parking space developed there would be beyond anything a normal, you know, reasonable business would do. It's just too costly to keep expanding there. Then there's the issue of we know it's a prime redevelopment site, but if we dump 14 million into it, say we only get five years out of it, the cost per year of that $14 million investment, it might not look kindly upon the school district in the future um for spending that amount of money and then potentially

077not even sell it for 14 million. Maybe we'd get 10 million, but we'd still get less out of it than what we just put into it. >> So, just to be clear, we need to do the 14 million to even keep it up and running. There's no way to to cut that. >> That's to kind of just put it back together and make sure that all the mechanical stuff works the way it's intended to work. >> Okay. you know, I Okay, first I was just saying that if there was a way to kind of sit on the property and keep using it, you know, for the cheapest way, I do understand that we got to do some maintenance and I, of course, I'm not saying to cut corners, but do what's absolutely necessary to keep

078it running for the students, you know, with with knowing that we would be, you know, offloading the property, you know, fairly soon so that we're not in that position where we put money into something, you know, we want to sell. I'd also say that one other nuance that education building codes are different from other building codes. And so if we were to sell it to say a nonprofit or somebody else wants to buy that property and redevelop it, they might not have to spend 14 million on it to get the HVAC upgraded because they don't have to do the same standards that we do with the um air quality and and circulation and all the things that we have to comply with for educational building codes. >> Of course not. Those are really good questions.

079I mean, they're We didn't we circled around about that building many many many times because it's for everything that you mentioned and I mean so yeah >> we we looked at just to give an example of one of the options I was personally really excited about and reluctantly had to give up on when I came to accept the cost of staying in Fidell. I wanted to move the central office to Fredell and I wanted to bring rail over here into this building because it would have wonderful bus access. It's a really it could work really really well for them. We would have to grow rail, but I'd like to grow rail anyway. I hear of people from surrounding communities that say, "You have this amazing program for these older adults." Um, and so I that

080was a hard one for me to give up and it just came down to the the the cost of staying in Fidel right now as we see it at present. The parking is a huge issue. I'm glad you actually mentioned that, John, because um we've learned the hard way that if we don't think clearly about that, we will have very frustrated, you know, staff and families who can't park at their their building if we don't have adequate space. >> And my I'm sorry, one last question. I'm and I'm shut up. Um, have we did we look at any options? So, I know buying it outright is profitable, but did we look at any leasing options like leasing it to another facility? Because leasing, we make more money long term if we own it outright. Um,

081even the the old Skyline property, even if it was redeveloped, instead of selling the property, have we considered leasing the land? Because then we still own the rights to it. Property go value goes up, we still, you know, can do what we wish, but we can still get some upfront money from it that way. in a continuous stream of income because we would be leasing out the property for whatever amount we determine and it would wouldn't be that upfront, you know, bulk cash, but long term we'd make more money. >> Yeah, I would say at this point in our investigations, we have not run the mathematics on on that specific question. >> Yeah, we'd be glad to do that. Thank you. That's a great idea. >> Um, related, can can you remind us what would

082happen with the proceeds from a sale of any of these properties? It reduces the debt, right? >> Yes. So, when you go to sell a school property, you have to look back and say, "Do you have any debt on this property?" And we know that, like, if we wouldn't do this, but a new school that we just constructed, we know we have debt on that. So, if that were the case, you have to put the money in the debt service fund. That's a way to kind of pay back the taxpayers. What ultimately happens is there's a lower property tax a year ahead after you make that deposit. If the building is free and clear, then you put it back and you restrict it into your operating capital account and you have to use it towards

083another building project in the future. Um, and so we've done that at least three times since I've been here. We we sold off Gage East, we sold off Golden Hill, we sold off the maintenance service building, and we've put all those proceeds back into other buildings. In fact, we're just spending the last of the maintenance service building proceeds on the adjustments we need to make at Old Pinewood to move Mighty Oaks into that facility. So, Yes. >> So those are proceeds that could be used for example to make some changes at future Phoenix Academy. >> Absolutely correct. >> Same question about leasing is there what we hear given what we hear about the lack of child care in Rochester. Is there a potential um business that might be interested in leasing mighty oaks from us?

084I think that's a great idea. I'm applaud you for bringing forward that suggestion. I think that's definitely something I would like to explore with our realtor. Like, you know, when you put something up for sale, you could say for sale or for lease. You know, we're we're interested in generating offers and then examining them to decide is it a good recommendation path A or path >> B. >> I had some >> Oh, go ahead. Um, I just had a little bit of data points that I'm hoping people can fill in for me like the number of students that we serve at Rail and Middle School ALC. I think we learned that recently, but I didn't have that at the top of my head. >> And I guess the same question for >> second, >> uh,

085Phoenix Academy and particularly the Sun program. >> Stand by. I'm pulling up a a membership report. >> I have it too if you don't. So I I'll let you >> Yeah. Um I'll use last October. Okay. Remind me which facilities you just asked about the >> um rail the middle school ALC. >> Yep. So rail we had 83 students and we projected to be about that the same going into this fall. Uh middle school ALC we had 32 on our official count you know last October. I think we're working on expanding that up to remind me is it 90. >> Yeah. And then how about um Phoenix Academy? And is that all ages? That was one of the things that I didn't know. >> Um Phoenix Academy is uh last year we had as young

086as first grade listed here up through 12th grade and there were 65 students. >> Um I did have a couple other question. Oh, the um some of the slides had current values for sale and that kind of thing. Do you have a current value for that Shannon Oaks property? >> We have not had that appraised. No, I do not. >> I think that would be helpful to know just that when we're comparing different things that, you know, if we're thinking about keeping or selling, knowing what we're keeping would be helpful. Um and then Dr. Kell, I think you kind of touched on this, but I didn't quite know the details that the idea of moving PEK and CEK back to the high schools. Are you still thinking about how that would look, whether it be

087one school, all schools for some of the curriculum? Is that still all under investigation? >> Yes, we have our first meeting on that with the high school principles next week. the Brandon McCraic who's our um principal for student centered learning. So he has PEC, CEK and um Minsk. He has been doing an audit of uh courses, enrollment and facilities. And so next week we're bringing the high school principles into that discussion. Um and obviously we'll come back to you with the conclusions that we have. Somewhat surprisingly because my mental model was a little bit to Dr. Marvin's point of kids in welding facilities um initially I thought working with RCTC faculty um and in fact by and large the actions that are happening are things that could happen in any room in one of our

088high schools taught by RPS staff >> but we're busing them across town um to do it >> and that kind of relates to one of the questions I had earlier in my head that is that identical for PEK and CEK or is that a little are there differences in those to it all. >> Um the PEK experience is for our kids is a traditional classroom with academic processes happening. Now it's not very traditional because they have great teachers doing really exciting innovative things, but it's like teaching and learning in a classroom. CEK has that. Um if you go to some of their um design learning issues, it's kids on computers like you'd see in a thing. But then you do have the space with beds and nursing where they do the practical nursing. You have

089a science lab that has um you know some stations where there's some interactive work happening. You know the agriculture class is taught in a space but it is really not heavy physical infrastructure that is very unique um in those spaces. the the welding space. Uh, and I'm, you know, I I the history predates me, but I we've had some struggles with the um upkeep of what was our welding space and then kids were using the RCTC space. And what I understand from Brandon is that RCTC who have been great partners, they've said, "Look, our enrollment is swelling here. we can't keep having uh fewer course offerings for RCTC students because RPS kids are uh using the so welding is one of the ones where we may find some uh need to to make some choices

090or be creative but we really uh don't know that just yet >> and that kind of relates to one of my questions about PEK is that if I understand what that program is designed for high school students but they end up with a combined degree with a post-secary degree But it's all within our PS then it's they're not getting postsecary like our PSO students are getting. >> They do. And what happens what one of the reasons I like the model so much is that they start out in 9th and 10th grades fully taught by RPS teachers currently on the campus. Interesting to note there are more than 200 PES across the country. We're the only one on a college campus. In most cases it's in high school. but they're taught by our teachers and they're

091taught by our teachers in a sequence of courses that prepare them for the PSO courses. And so by 11th and 12th grade, in a few cases 10th grade, as our students have started to get a bit ahead, they are taking PSO courses at RCTC that are in a vertical pathway in IT on one hand and practical nursing on the other. So they do get to PSO. There's a point at which a PEK student is still an RPS student, but they're fully taking PSO classes in the model that we're hoping more and more kids are successful in. The challenge initially and and and I think uh it'd be a good time uh in the future board calendar to schedule an update on PE for the board. Um uh the entering knowledge and skills in particular in

092math of some of our students when we started uh created a big challenge for them to get ready for those PSO classes. we're finding uh that is less and less of a hindrance and so kids are getting to the credit varying PSO classes um frankly sooner than they were in the first few quarts of the program um which is intended in 11th grade and so we're starting to get kids basically on the schedule to be taking those PCO classes in starting 11th grade. >> So I want to make sure I understand what you said earlier then that it's the CEK that's all within RPS. Well, the PEK classes that we have that we rent space for are also only RPS because once a student is taking the PSDO classes, a PEK student is taking the

093PCO classes, they're physically in the PSO classroom, lab or space. Okay. And they're no longer, it's funny because they actually come back to visit the RPS teachers in the PEK corner, but they're not taking classes there anymore. they're taking the classes in the rest of the >> So if I hear what you're saying then it's like an intentional pathway to that PSO from ninth and tth grade they're more within but then transition to that PSO in a structured way that's perfectly said Dr. Mclofflin and it's one so I love it because there's that foundation especially for kids who need additional support then what also is different is it's not just random acts of PSO it's a clearly articulated pathway that they take at RCTC so it's not what am I going to take it's I'm

094taking these PSO classes to get my associates in information technology or my uh credential in practical nursing >> so for your vision then of bringing them back to high school CEK would be like implementing certain curriculum back in the high school. PEK would be keeping that same model but within a identified group of students that are going to go that intensive path. If we did this, very important to say that because we there's lots of things we can't talk with our governing board unless we share ideas with you, but it doesn't mean anything's decided. um they would probably take the ninth and tth grade classes at the high school and then once they are ready for PSO they would take PSO like hundreds of RPS students do either traveling to RCTC or taking it virtually

095online. The courses for uh PEK are physical. They're not asynchronous. They're there but you know that might change over time. RCTC changes their curriculum. So they would finish the PEK program in their high school, the the ninth and tth grade, the part that's taught by our PS teachers, and then they would uh take the PSO classes um probably physically at RCTC, which you know we have many kids who get to the campus for that purpose. >> How would that then maintain PEK as a function of RPS? we would look more like other PEKs around the country where the kids take the uh classes taught by the high school in their high school and then they take the PSO classes on the college campus whether many are virtual around the country now but like in our

096case it it's it's physically there >> what I hear you saying then is kind of like the curriculum paths like you want to develop for other things it would be keeping that path for certain things already >> it would the thing about PS the thing about PEK that is different than traditional PSO is would be a transportation issue because we've worked very hard to have students in PEK who are from uh low-income kids, first generation in the family to a college. They often we know are less likely to have transportation to get to RCTC. So, we bust them now as part of PEK because they're all going together. So were we to do this, we would have to look at how the students would gain access to their RCTC coursework because they might not be

097able to transport themselves as many of our other students uh from very diverse backgrounds do to get over to RCTC for those classes. That's one of the issues we'd have to take a look at because right now we take the transportation barrier off the table for them. >> Got it. Um and then I did have one question you talked about earlier getting the stakeholder feedback. It sounds like summertime maybe just principles. How much has the staff been involved in that? Do the principles have input already from the staff or is that >> not extensively? That's a next step. >> We felt that it was important to do a um viability check with our school leaders and then schedule this discussion with you so that you've kind of heard it here first and then absolutely there

098will need to be broader stakeholder engagement starting in the fall. Um, you know, sometimes people uh say, "Why'd you talk about that at the school board before you asked us?" And I I actually think this is how it ought to work. You're you're our governing board. We ought to tell you this is something we're looking at, but it doesn't mean it's a done deal. It doesn't mean But it also doesn't mean we've been out there interviewing people and doing focus groups when you haven't given us the green light to explore this. So, um, that would be, uh, something that would be happening early in the fall in the affected programs. I appreciate the answers and I also really appreciate finally knowing um something more about Fredell that that's been a kind of a thorn in

099my side since I ran for school board. So, thank you. >> I seem to remember that we had had some conversations about having a hard time meeting the demand for the CE courses. Would moving it back into the high schools allow more kids to take courses? >> What I hear from our educators is yes. And what I hear from this limited number of students I've asked is yes that there's two kind of there's two kind of obstacles to going over to CEK which many of our kids do and which is a wonderful experience. So once again we're not talking about undermining that kind of programming. Number one, you have to actually find out about it because you it's not you don't walk by it in your high school, you know. So there's a there's a

100out of sight out of mind problem. And then even if you know about it, you have to be willing to leave your high school. You're you're you're you're taking fewer classes to travel across the city. So there again, there's a barrier. Kids who are in extracurriculars um uh often will self- select out of it as well. And so we, you know, it's anecdotal, but the idea being we might be able to grow this programming if it was physically in our high schools, which again, glass half full, declining enrollment opens us some possibilities. It would have been farcical for me to talk about this two or three years ago when our high schools were bursting at the seams. But as as you know uh in Rochester and nationally the biggest high the biggest class for the

101next uh 20 years foreseeably is depending on how you measure it last year's or this year's that's there and from that point the there's no room at the end problem is not going to be the problem of our most of our you know schools and we would have to manage enrollment across them. So, it opens some opportunities to think about programming in a way that we couldn't think about because we just had so many kids. >> Okay. I have I have a number of questions. Um, first of all, it's my understanding we don't have any more classes in the white buildings. They will all move to CEK, the nursing program. I mean, we're not leasing that space anymore. >> Definitely not leasing it. And I don't think we're using it. >> Okay. And then the

102second thing is, does Mayo High School still have their auto mechanics I think maybe small engines class and do the majority of students who are do they self transport to that >> or do we actually bus from >> oh oh does Mayo offer it to Century and JM >> um I don't know what the yeah I don't know what those enrollment numbers look like right now I I JM meets a lot of those needs physically there I know Century has very limited option I've heard that heard about that century kids. >> I mean, I know at one point Mayo had a really, really good auto mechanics. >> I'm not aware of dedicated bus routes that are taking kids for that class down to Mayo High School. So, I'm thinking if they are, they're self transporting

103themselves over to Mayo. >> Okay. I think there's just a handful of kids that go either to JM or Mayo from Century. Century doesn't have the shop. >> Okay. But JM does JM has a shop. I will also say as part of our Mayo renovation is we we've been thinking about this ahead is trying to make sure that we're we're welding lab ready at at a minimum as we work on that project. So just in case there's a shift in in something in the future. >> No director. >> Um yeah, I wanted the other thing I wanted to follow up on is the office space for needs, you know, in the building we're in right now. Um, I don't have any like great ideas necessarily, but just wanted to surface that I think it makes

104a lot of sense to lease actual office space and not have a um sort of converted former school. Um, and I'm not sure really what the the needs are, if it's operational or otherwise to be in the center of the city or how broad the center of the city is really defined. Um, but uh along the the northwest part of town and definitely the the former IBM site, the technology campus, there has a whole lot of empty space. I don't know if any of it would make sense for the needs of our district. Um, but it just it seems like something we ought to be really considering. The um the other thought I had about that is it's probably worth pressing a little bit on whether there really needs to be 120 space for 120

105employees altogether. Um I don't know if that's really the case, but it might be worth just thinking that through a little bit if it could be 50 here and 70 there. um and you know whether whether it really does need to be that large of a like 20,000 square foot area because that narrows the search pretty considerably. So >> you're right on there. Um and and and the other the other thought I had is I I I was remembering I think three years ago, probably my first year on the board, um one version, one iteration of a long-term facility study, identified some pretty significant needs at at this building, HVAC and so forth. Um and if it's a hundred some years old, that makes an awful lot of sense. And um so yeah, just underscores

106to me the the long-term cost of being in a really old building that's not particularly well suited um to office work. Anyhow, so um I would just underscore that that is a something that really ought to be looked at carefully. >> Thank you, Director. >> I'm sure Director Cook that Mr. Carlson is quite happy that you just said that because he shares every single uh thought that you just uh that you just shared very passionately and worked very hard. Um and actually to director Whitehorn's we point, we also looked at keeping Fidel and moving office space there too and it ran into the same cost piece. Um, I think that because we're not proposing to put major money into this besides enhancing the area for the families who enroll in person, we should keep looking

107for that. Our initial investigation, you did go out and look at IBM, the space there. I didn't find a near-term option, but uh I think your point about um splitting up some folks is an option. In fact, John has moved his office um out of this building and he didn't disappear from the earth. he still comes back here and Amy has been operating outside this building for a long time. So, it's not true that central office all has to be here for us to work together. >> And I don't know if this is the right time to do this estimate if you're considering leasing, but um is there a way to figure out a cost of a different location for the boardroom? Because if we got rid of Edison, the boardroom would go with it.

108And um we have a lot of infrastructure of audio video access for the public a central location for people to attend our meetings in person. So I don't know if there's a way to put together a package of where are we to not have the boardroom in Edison? What would our options look like and are those do those options exist? >> Dr. Um, so my my thought uh in some conversation was what are the cost of the maintenance on the properties we're not using? And then I was passing notes over here. So I'm telling on myself. So what I asked him was had we looked at agricultural dollars. So I got on my my small business hat here which says anything I own has to make me money. If I'm if I own it and

109it's sitting it's a problem. So, have we looked at, you know, green space grants or, you know, throwing a couple solar panels on a property? I mean, anything that can generate revenue instead of just having a spot sit there empty, you know what I mean? Even we put one wind thing on there. I don't know. But, I mean, there are there I know I know the Department of Agriculture, don't quote me because things are changing, does normally have some hefty funding for green spaces. um if you if we have land that's not being fertilized. I mean, there are there if you look on there, there's a ton ton of things um that they have grants and funding for. So, I just don't know how creatively we've looked at some of these spaces that are costing

110us money and not, you know, generating us some revenue. Um because money is an issue. Uh, and we know that things, you know, we're looking at declining rates, but I I guess I'm not a fan of just holding on to a property that's not making us any money, but we're spending money to maintain it. Like, my thoughts is that we need to be doing something with it um to generate dollars back into our school system. That's my thought. >> So, I can answer definitively on the DNR property, we pay zero for that. There's been no ongoing or any costs. At one time in my files, I do believe it was leased or rented for um some crop production. That has obviously not been happening in my 15 years here because there's no income coming in

111and as I assessed or went out to the property, trees have started growing up. So clearly, it's been a while since crop production has happened there. Mike could answer about how much we have to maintain the Shannon Oaks property because there is a little bit of expense off of that. It's it's very minimal as far as what you know mowing. We don't do any plowing. There is some um cost to mothball some of our buildings. I think some people just think we turn the key and walk away. But we usually have to keep the systems on so we don't grow mold or freeze pipes in the winter. So holding on to properties with buildings on them does end up being a little bit of an extra cost. But that particular property and I don't know

112what since it's in the city limits what our options would even be as far as something on that property. I thought of it when you were talking about having a corn crop or something on letting a farmer use it. But I don't know what the the city bylaws would be too as well. >> And I and like I said, I've just I've done very minimal look, but I know they even give grants, if you will, not put pesticides on ground just so they can test it. So they have a lot of opportunity for just green spaces. I mean, it's you got to do a little digging, but I mean, it generates >> I mean, if it'll generate one extra dollar, it's I mean, I just don't I just wanted to see the benefit of us

113not just sitting on a property like we've had an empty school that surprised me since 1976. I don't know what it costs, but I'm sure if we add up even the minuscule amount that we've spent maintaining that over the years, it it's probably a slightly embarrassing number that we you know what I mean that had that we haven't gotten back from that property. So, I just don't want to continue a pattern of us just holding land to hoard it. I mean, it should at least be creating revenue for our students in in some way or being useful in some way. Just my fault. >> Thank Thank you. Uh, director, we will take a look at that. I if any of you really do want a walk back through time and part like the most awesome

114space for the worst haunted house, our best haunted house ever. You should take John up on his offer to go out to the Skyline facility. I'm serious. I did a couple weeks ago. I don't know why we've kept it. It is decrepit. But it also is oddly fascinating to walk through this old school back from the days when, for instance, there was no lunchroom because everyone went home for lunch and the the principal could see like every single, you know, kid because it's one little hallway and a teeny little office and you feel like you're walking back into a different era. But it really is. Um I mean there's tires in there. There's an air conditioning unit in there. I mean Mike and the team have done a good job of you know keeping it

115bridled. I have to say if I was one of the neighbors I would be thrilled at the prospect that something's going to happen because it's right near very neat homes where people look at this and I thought, "Oh, don't let them know who I am. I don't want them to blame me for like not, you know, doing it cuz the lawns are like, you know, nicely kept up and there's little playsets and I assume the parents say, "Don't ever go over to that evil building there because it really is." >> So, you're saying we can make some money as a haunted house. >> I thought that I said that actually. >> Does that sound like a check coming? >> I did say that. ask >> I one other thought not about the haunted house thing

116but I I I forgot to ask the the uh uh curriculum warehouse that's currently in the education service center where would that be relocated to what are the needs of that does it need like environmental controls or what >> oh yeah >> it could be Mona may want to add I think first of all there is some purging that can go on um we have I think been uh retained some materials uh uh to the point where we we're not CDs are not going to make a comeback and so we can make some decisions on that and I think that we uh again with declining enrollment we will find space and so that's the >> we've talked about a couple different things like we've talked about if there's room um in a building um like

117I went out and was looking at I was trying to guess like how many classrooms could this be consolidated down to like if we so could it go into four classrooms if there was a building that had like four open classrooms then John I think you had a different idea about >> some place else >> um but we're we're we're talking about like just different things but the first >> loading ramp or something >> so we have to think about like do like the dock and how to get stuff in and because even getting if we use a classroom, you can't bring the pallets and the doors, the classroom doors aren't big enough. So, you're going to have to have the the staff to be able to unload prior to getting in. Like, so we

118have to look at all of that stuff. But the be before we even do that, um, Dr. Pel's right, like there's a lot of purging that needs to happen. We got so excited because the like way too excited. John had to tell me we're not doing it this summer. And I was like, "Oh, we're not?" Because I thought we were. We all went out. We decided what like, okay, we're we're moving. We put out an email with like if you want to come out and pick up some materials like for teachers. It was like they told me it was like Black Friday out there. Like teachers came out at the very end of the school year and got what they needed for their or wanted for their classroom, things that they could take and which

119was fantastic and there's still more work that needs to be done. And then I think once we see what we're down to, we'll be able to make better decisions. It's it's hard right now to say is there really space somewhere like next to paper tiger I think you were saying >> maybe not I don't know anyway um >> not overcommitting to that space yet but >> um we just need to see how much we really how much space we really really need and we have to look at do we need to keep it all centralized or is there a way to to do it is there at the buildings can buildings store their own extras does and if a classroom closes, they're responsible for holding on to the material because if it opens up that

120grade level opens up the next year, they have the material there and then they as a principal, that's what I had to do. Um, but then if if another building if it opens up somewhere else, we have to have some sort of process to get them the material. So, we're looking at all of that, but we definitely can shrink it and find a place for it to go so that the kids can have a gym. That's for sure. >> Last call. >> Great. Thank you very much. If I might, Madam Chair, just add, as you know, I have told members of the cabinet who are not um uh necessarily um going to participate in the discussion of board goals or my evaluation that they can take off and enjoy the evening should they so choose.

121And so, thank you all very much. >> A you're going to miss all the fun. >> Please go outside. >> It's too hot. While other transitioning board members, we have two agenda items before we break for a close session. Would you like to take a break now? >> Yes. >> All right. >> And we are in recess for 10 minutes at 7:08 p.m. >> And my device is about to die. >> Where you going? Oh. Yeah. Where is Skyline? I'm really curious. All right, you guys ready? >> Yeah. >> No. >> The board is back in session at 7:18 p.m. Our next item is a monitoring item, the school board self-evaluation for 202425. So in order to inform development of our goals, we discussed the results of our schoolboard self-evaluation. For the seventh time, the

122Rochester School Board has used the Minnesota Schoolboard Association framework for governance survey as the tool for our self-evaluation and the results are available in this agenda item in Simly. The schoolboard self-evaluation results reflect the collective responses of the board team which includes the superintendent. These results build a profile of the board's work in five standards of board practice proven to support student achievement. These standards are conduct and ethics, vision, structure, accountability, and advocacy and communication. Each board member answered 71 questions with a rating of always, most of the time, some of the time, never, or don't know. um the across all standards if you look at the results 81 to 97% of the answers said we were meeting the standards either always or most of the time and I think we'll next review the results

123for each section um and after we review the results I'd like members if you would um to think about when you were filling out the survey for that section were there any specific questions in this section section that led to your ranking. And there is a document that you were provided a copy of and it's al also in symbol uh called the MSBA questions with information source. So that shows the questions that you answered that rolled up to the um score for that standard. So for example in standard one conduct and ethics provide responsible school district guidance are always percentage increased by 10% to 62%. And so when you were filling out the survey, if you're looking at the questions under framework um under the MSBA questions with information source, were there any of those

124questions under standard one that you thought particularly led um to you ranking it always or for those people who may have ranked it another level? Is there any of those questions that stood out to you? >> Maybe number 21 a little bit. Okay. Still Yeah. Um, so we have our two newest board members, Stephanie and Jess, do you feel like you were adequately oriented to form a new inclusive team? I mean, what I think we had the school board handbook that was just hot off the press when you came on the board, but do you feel like there was anything more that could have Um, no. Well, the the the manual is uh is very helpful. I mean, definitely for incoming board members, but I I think also uh really helpful to the community in

125general and people who might be considering running for school board. Um, I also think the retreat we did two plus years ago with the Clifton Strengthsfinder tool, um, uh, I I felt like I got a lot out of that, especially as kind of the the newest member of the group at that point or, um, yeah, I >> um, director, >> I would say that it's it's a lot of information. I appreciate the thorowness of the information. I would say as being like the the fresh meat here, the newest of the new. Um it's a lot of information for somebody who doesn't have um who does hasn't previously been on a board or, you know, did that type of thing. Um, I I would say that I I feel blessed in the fact that um because

126I'm very open and I'm I'm very it's very easy for me to speak up and say I don't understand what's going on. Um made it easy for me to feel included. But if I had to base it on just the way it was presented without the me part of it, I could see how it could be intimidating for someone else. Um because it is a lot of information. There's a lot of um I think right now we have and I will say out loud we have a wonderful bo board. I feel that everybody has been very welcoming and accommodating and you know answering questions. Um but I know because we are elected that that doesn't always necessarily mean that that will be who's always on the board. Um I would say I wish there was

127a better practice for onboarding um um everyone. I feel that upfront it's just so it's a lot of it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a it's a lot upfront. Um so I know there are things that I still haven't completed, but I don't think I've really even had the opportunity to fully digest um everything that we are are given um up front. So I don't knock the process. Um I I appreciate having the information and knowing where to go to get the information. Um, but looking at it from like a learning standpoint, I it's a it's a lot. I think the example they even say at MSBs is like taking a sip of water from a fire hydrant. And I guess those things concern me because that means that they're aware that they're throwing

128a lot at you at one time, but no one has ever considered how do we streamline this in a better way so that people um so that you do get new blood in, you know, um because it's it's a lot uh being a new new elect coming off a campaign and then having all of this information thrown at you at at one time. So, I don't think that there's enough time to digest uh all of the information, but I do appreciate knowing where to get the information. So, I I I guess I'm kind of fair to midlin on it that it's it's a lot of information. I'm glad the information is given. Um but it's hard to digest. So, it's kind of like trying to to jump on a train that's that's moving, right? Because

129you're trying to learn why things are >> are moving along. there's really not a break. So, I don't know how how you remedy that. >> Give yourself some grace on that because there is a lot. And I mean, I think it's I I think it could take up to your entire first term to really get a handle on everything. So, the fact that you didn't weren't able to grasp it all during the first week. >> Say what? >> Yeah. >> Oh, well, praise the Lord. Any other comments on standard one? Move on to standard two which is vision. Set and communicate high expectation for student learning with clear goals and plans for meeting these are always rating increased 5% to 69%. Were there any questions or items under standard 2, which is questions 22 31

130that you might want to highlight or led to your ranking in this area? Do you have one? >> Great. Director Mark. >> Well, no, I'll just I for this one. I I think um I know that this board really expects um our entire district to do the best we can for students both in terms of what they're learning, how they're learning, and the kind of a sense of belonging that they that they feel. Um I know we can't control how every student learns. And the fact that we have the high expectations, I wish that meant that every single student would succeed. And so every time there's a a student who doesn't do well for whatever reason, I think we all feel responsible. Um, and I'm one thing I think that we're doing better is um

131involving reaching out to the community and trying to involve more people in supporting all of our kids knowing that one superintendent, one board, one staff can't meet all the needs of every student. But, um, I think that we consistently have high expectations. >> And I look at question uh 29 continually monitor progress towards the goals and outcomes of the strategic plan. And I look at where this standard um was when um Superintendent Pel joined us and our always for standard 2 in 2021 was 11%. And now it's 69. And I um I think that the development of the strategic plan, the implementation that's happened over the past few years, I think the conversation that has been continuous between the board and the superintendent regarding the kind of information we want to see when we're hearing

132updates on the strategic plan or making decisions on them has that that's why our ability to rate ourselves on that has increased because I think we've invested in um that process of developing the strategic plan, monitoring progress, and it just again, I keep saying it, but it's the first time since I've been in the district for 25 years that we are rolling over from one strategic plan to a new one, having been able to measure our progress and mark our our successes. So, um that's one of the reasons why I think my ratings over time have changed um in this standard. I just wanted to uh so I think we're doing good with the community. I think we do need to still continue to look at ways to um overshadow some of the bad information.

133I think unfortunately there's still a lot of bad information that is overshadowing some of the good work that we're doing. I don't have uh I hate having an issue without having a suggestion for a solution, but I do think that is a there's a barrier. I'm not I feel we're doing better. We're trying to get better. I know COVID created some big gaps. Um and I'm just saying this as a parent who has a son that's what 36 years old to now having a kid that's 18. I've um I've been in the school system for quite some time and I have seen a change in um and not a great change in my opinion on the community and parent involvement. You know, there's been a little bit of a decline. I don't know how we

134increase that back up, how we reinterest the parents and the community back into the school. Um and and again this is just a personal observation like I said from parenting through through a couple decades here that you know those we you know my older kids will tell you we had a parents were heavily involved in a lot of things. Now I feel like we're we're grasping at parents a little bit. So I don't know how do we re-engage um the school and the parents again. Sometimes I feel like there's a little bit of a of a barrier um there. That's that is the only area in that section that gave me pause about what we can do as a board um to encourage and and could it be language? Could it be that you know

135we need to um I don't know which president it is. I'm not good at history um historian, but there was one president that I remember learning of that said had had that ability to speak to people where they were and everybody felt that they talked very very good very good at that. So I don't know if it's the language that we use that kind of goes over people if we're not quite meeting our community where they are so they understand because when I read through it from a community member lens sometimes um even sitting on the board I don't fully understand what is happening right you know I'm learning what is happening so I can just imagine that we do have parents and um people that are getting information or trying to understand what is

136happening but they're not getting good information. So that and and again in my business had bad information spreads a lot faster than good information. So I don't know what we can do as a board um to promote the good information to make sure that the information is being appropriately given if that makes sense. Uh so that we can try to start to close up that barrier between our parents and our educators. Anything else for standard two? All right, we'll move on to standard three. Structure create conditions districtwide for student and staff success. Always increased by 6% to 55% but 2% of the answers submitted were never. And it's one of the few categories that actually had some never responses. So does anybody have anything to share about standard three structure which are questions 32 through

13750? Yeah, I'll just say um having written a lot of surveys like this um this is there's a lot of items in here where the language suggests a standard that somebody could understandably say is impossible to achieve because it's written in what we would call a very maximalist way like districtwide. And so if you have visited any one of our schools and you're like, "Yeah, things are going well, but they're struggling," you might mark it down. And so just the way these are written, I think I wouldn't I don't know, it might have been me who said the the 2%. Um because if you if you really mean districtwide, you mean all schools. >> I think that the trend is still in a positive direction. >> Yes. Um we have gone from 29% always in

1382021 to 55% this year. I would also if I say if I can share Nathan an alternative way to sort of look for the favorables in something like this is actually to combine the top two >> because the top two is it allows for someone like me who's going to split pairs and say not all the time but most of the time then you get the people who are feeling good or you know you also have to pay attention to the bottom two like oftentimes. So if you look at our top two on most of these that's frankly pretty out of the park when you Yep. >> And in this case, it's uh 90% always or most of the time and only 11% some of the time or never. >> And I just want to

139mention to that uh and this is probably a mute point, but I have a hard time with always and never. So, I probably didn't put always or never on anything cuz it's it's too definitive to me. How how can I say that this is always happening? Like it it I don't know. and and like you said, we talking about all of the school district. I could say it's happening the majority of the time, but so I might be one of the not so alwaysers, but not in a negative way. I just have an issue with definitively saying that something is always happening or it's never happening. I just >> never say always. I mean, I say it, but I'm but I mean, when you're reading, like he was saying, I don't I don't like to

140read things that I try to read it quick because otherwise my brain starts telling me, "Yeah, but for what and where?" So, I I had to be quick with this. I had to read it first thought and go because otherwise I get stuck in that loop of, "Well, what about this school and what about this spot?" So, >> I think always and most of the time is a good way to look at it. >> Yeah, I like that. >> Dr. ML. >> Um, I looked at my answers to this whole section kind of as a indication of the time that I've been on the board and I think, you know, realistically tribute to the chair of the current board that we have so much more structure than when I started. Um the example even being

141black and white in front of us that we have a document that talks about structure but then also references the specific policies that when I first started on the board I didn't have anything to tie those concepts together in an easy way and I think that this does but I think our agendas and our ABCD calendar and all the things we've done to improve not only for the board and our internal communications but also and so that the community can access this information and learn from it um I think is uh saying a lot about our structure and how we've improved over time. Just one one quick comment too is and and this is I think what precipitated several years ago for you to put all the policy references in here which is you know

142are we answering this as an individual individual or as a board and if I don't know what everybody else's thoughts are on before I answer the question of course which we don't um it makes it a little bit more challenging I'm done. I mean, and I I remember in the past um never for the board, but I believe for superintendent evaluation um for every one of the standards there used to be a binder where like for example, if the goal or the the standard is related to the long-term facilities plan, the superintendent would have had a copy of the approved long-term facilities plan to show. And I think if we look at this chart, maybe for future years, there's um either links to agenda dates or agenda items that we could fill in to show

143that we've actually completed that piece. Like I like I said, I just looked at the long-term facilities plan. we could fill it in the date that the board approved it so that we would almost have a ongoing measure of how we're accomplishing some of the work in these standards as we're going on. So we don't have to think about it at the end of the year. Right. When did we do that? Did we do that? I remember doing that. >> Um but wouldn't have to search for it. Yeah, I I think the the the most challenging um item in in standard three is is number 46, keeping the community informed about the district's financial status. I don't think there's any question that we formally do that um through our our board meetings where detailed information

144about the district's finances are on the agenda every single month. Um but if the and so the the information is technically available and then and there's also um uh a um dashboard um that displays a lot of that information that's linked straight through the assembly um agenda item. But if that results in the community being informed, which is kind of what is suggested by that standard, I I just think that is work that is never done. and um and it's a and it's a complicated story and um and hard for for people to grasp. So, it's just continuous ongoing work. Nothing else on standard three. Standard four, accountability, hold school district accountable for meeting student learning expectations. um always increased by 10 to 66% and a combination of always and most of the time in

145standard 4 was 96%. Um and uh never increased from 0 to 1% but total some of the time and never was only 4%. So any thoughts on accountability? I think when you look at the individual questions of 51 through 61, um if we were to go and you know write something in each box about when we had done this, we would have concrete meeting dates, probably multiple where we had um taken these actions, which is probably one of the reasons why this is so such a high ranking. I I would just say 56 because uh the superintendent here has often said that he wish he had a more robust um evaluation um done. He's mentioned that a few times. So that was something that I also thought of when we were going through this seeing

146that I have not gone through the superintendent's evaluation previously, but he has mentioned several times that he would like a more robust evaluation done on on his performance. though. >> I I would I Yeah, I appreciate that. I think the term robust is not wrong, but I think I think the board's evaluations have been pretty robust. I would frankly like one that is more actionable for me to improve, which I think is what you mean. So it's been very robust but using the framework that we've used from MSBA with 140 different uh priorities and the way some of them are written it hasn't always given me clear understanding of like okay this can get better. So I think it's in that sense robust but I think there has been a ton of effort put into

147put into it. Um and it's going to be fun to talk about where we go in the future. And I wasn't knocking it. Like I said, I haven't gone through the pro. I just know that he had mentioned that he he would want more from it. So, >> excuse my language. >> All right. Hearing no nothing else on standard four. Standard five, advocacy and communications. Um, engage local community and represents the values of expectations they hold for their schools. Now, this increased by 10% to 38% but this is the only standard where always is below 50%. And the total of all mo always and most of the time is 81% which is our lowest ranking. Um some of the time increased by 9% and never increased by 1%. So um I think we've heard even

148interspersed with some of the other standards that communication and engagement um are concerns that we have for our own um performance. Is there anything specific in the questions of 32 through 71 that anybody wants to comment on that might be useful in our goal setting in our next item? >> Chair Nathan. >> Yes. >> I think maybe part of it is is because we have been trying to take a deeper dive into our communication processes that I mean me I have a better understanding of what's possible and what's not possible which might have influenced some of the um responses for how we're doing because if you don't know what it is you're supposed to be doing then everything must be okay but once you start really looking at it it's like oh we did this

149but we could have done x y and z or more um so I don't think it's necessarily a failing but maybe just that we have more information and experience with our communications with the public. >> Dr. Marvin, >> well, I think this is going to lead right into our our goal setting too, but for instance, um, under standard five, it's number 66, ensure the public is well informed of the board's roles and responsibilities. Um, I know we try to make sure that people know what boards do and what they can't do. Um, and I don't mean this in any way demeaning, but I think there are a lot of people that don't care. They're really involved with the school district. They're really involved with their kids, with their kids schools. Um, but I think that

150they I'm not sure that they know exactly what school boards do and what our responsibilities are. And it that continues to be one of those things. do we we need to do a better job of listening for sure to the community. Um and then part of our role too is to educate them, but I'm not sure if it's critically important that every person in the community understands exactly what school boards do. That should be a a goal of ours. or if it's to um en ensure that we're doing the best job we can in sharing with them what the district is about and what the initiatives are that are going to affect their lives and their kids. So it's kind of a balance. >> Dr. >> So um so like question 63 modeling cultural, racial,

151ethnic understanding and sensitivity. Um some of these things I think we have a desire to do and I mean some some of it is not even from our own you know not necessarily in our control if this makes sense what I'm saying. um you know like representation is important and we want to hire you know more staff and see our see our leadership team look more like what our population looks like right those types of things um but I think that there's just work to be done but I don't know I guess I struggled with how much work of of that is of the board and how much work of that is you know just work that just needs to be done if I'm making sense I may you make us. >> Um, but I

152will also say that there, you know, I and from my earlier comment is, you know, we we do truly need to find some some better ways of of getting in getting the the communication with the community involved. And and I don't know uh what that looks like. Uh but I did struggle with this part because I don't feel that we're not trying. Um I think we are trying a ton of things but we're not seeing the response. So I don't know how do we shift that. You know I think we we constantly have ideas but if we're very honest they're not really producing the feedback we're looking for. So my concern is even as a board have we gotten too far away from the community? You know, I feel like as us being elected, we

153we need to maybe re-engage with our bases and really be listening to what what there's there's I feel like there's a piece missing that we're just we're just missing. if that it was a tough section for me because I feel like we are trying I feel like we are doing many things to engage and to to want people to come but there's something that's not connecting because we're trying to reach out but we're not getting that that flowing um relationship back from the community if this makes sense. I don't I don't know how to, you know, I'd like to see a better flow of communication between the community and the board. Um, I would also like to see the board and, you know, my personal feeling is anything that happens in the community involves the

154school because if they're not a student here, they could be a student here, you know, or they could have a loved one who is a student here. And I I feel that there's a little bit of a clear divide that, you know, we're creating between the board and the community, but I don't know how we how we do this, but I feel like there needs to be a little bit more synchronization with what's happening in the community and what's happening in the board. >> Anything else on standard five? Because Director Marvin is right. It does flow very nicely into our next agenda item, which are our school board goals for 202526. Um, a reminder of the board that this is a prep for action item. So, we'll discuss some rough outlines for the goals and

155um draft something in the interim and then bring it back for the August 5th meeting where we'll allow some time for us to work um on the goal language there before we take action. And we're not ready to take action on the 5th, we can always delay that. We're flexible with this because this is this is a definition of our work. Um so let's first review our goals from 202425. Um this also gives you a sense of the structure of how we've written the goals in the past few years using the smart um goal framework of simple, measurable, achievable, realistic and time bound. So keep that in mind as you think about our goals going forward. Um we did this document is in symbol as well for people who are watching the the meeting. Um

156goal one, the board will participate in four listening sessions in the 202425 school year. We did not complete this goal. Um and we have had some difficulties in the past two years um mostly due to finding the right dates, the board member availability and low attendance of the sessions we have held. However, I think we should give recognition to all of the board members participation in the referendum um outreach um from the beginning of the school year last year through November which was you know about half of the school year where we all participated in outreach had conversations that would be very similar the kinds of conversations we would have at listening sessions or other kinds of outreach um and and I think personally not speaking for other board members Um, that kind of outreach

157was great because and I think we might be able to remember it and perhaps use it as we think about our goals going forward with community engagement, especially in listening sessions because it started with a topic. We were trying to inform them about something very specific that we wanted to talk to them about and then while their questions could could have just focused on that, it didn't. it sort of led to either a conversation about just the referendum information or some of the broader conversations about the district. Um, and that got me to thinking about how we might be able to think about our community engagement, especially our listening sessions in the future. Is it helpful to start with a common piece of information that we're sharing with the community? And then if they want

158to ask questions about that, great. And if they want to ask questions about something broader, great, too. But at least we're we're doing half of the work of trying to provide information and giving them an opportunity to comment on something specific as well as you know broader issues. That was what the experience of the um at least the referendum um gave me. Anybody else have any comments on goal one um from last year? I I think the idea of more structure in those listening sessions like to a particular topic or two or something that's coming up we know is coming up on a future agenda that we specifically really want community input on before we have a meeting or a study session would be good. Um otherwise it's like well here we are. What do

159you want to talk about? And I think that that's not particularly um helpful because um we hear the loudest voices, but that might not be representative of the majority of the community. Um and sometimes people don't come because well, they think everything's going okay. Director Marvin, >> you know, again, I think that there are two parts of this is what do we think the community needs to know about and we could have sessions and say here's some information you need to know. Um, but the other thing that we really really have to do and I think that informally we have a whole lot of board members who doing who've been doing this you know throughout is what do we need to know? What do you want to tell the board? What are you happy about?

160What do you think needs changing? Um, what questions do you have? Those are pretty easy because either here's the answer or here's the person will have the answer or I don't know, we better find out. Um, but how are we making ourselves available to the public so they can tell us what they think the district needs to know? And you know, we have email, we have comments to the board. Um, and I think we need to get better at that and make sure we're at gatherings in places where people can come and let us know what they're thinking. Um, when we had the listening sessions, which I thought were wonderful except that most of the people who came um had an issue and they were important issues, but they were ones the board didn't deal

161with. So, what we could do is help walk them through these are the people you need to talk with or here's who you can work with or I can connect you with someone. Um, but they weren't district issues. They were almost always about a specific student a specific issue and they were important. Um, but I think we can do that without having the listening sessions just being in the community so people know there's a schoolboard member. um I can talk with them. Um I think we need to do a better job too of making trying to make sure that people know what the chain of communication is. Um Miss Nathan, I thought you had a a really good idea when you suggested that, you know, our video recaps apparently did not win Emmys. Um and

162the viewership was low, which I think tells us something. maybe a once a month, and Kathy, this was your idea, a once a month newsletter from the board. Here are some of the big things that were happening at board meetings. Here's some of the big issues, and then people can read it, not read it, whatever. Um, I think we do a pretty good job of informing people about big issues for the district. I think we don't do as well in terms of getting community feedback um to the board and even when we have committees that are supposed to be getting feedback, I think those tend to be more here's some stuff that you should know about this initiative. And I think if we have advisory committees, we really need to listen to advice. We may

163not take the advice, but I think we need to do a better job of understanding how people what people's experiences been. >> I was multitasking. >> So, I I agree. I agree, director. I think that we need to do a little bit of a combination of it though, right? cuz I think there are some parents that benefit from a newsletter. I think there are, you know, some parents that, you know, even though, like you said, we didn't win an Emmy, but some people do like the little video recaps. I think we need to do uh some So, just from previous community work that I've done, where we've had the best opportunities is where we go to where the people are. So whether it's to the apartment complexes they're in because we've all discussed child care

164issues, transportation issues, um, and to director Workman's response that just because it's the loudest voice doesn't mean that it's even the majority of a voice. Um, and unfortunately coming from a community advocacy lens, yes, we see the same 12 people all the time with the same problem all the time. Um, but you know, maybe we need to think a little. If we really are thinking about the community, we're going to have to think of where the community is. Um, think about where our children are, you know, where they are concentrated, right? Um, think of uh when we're talking about equity, are we thinking about those poverty pocket spaces? So, um, just like some of the things that we've done that work well in the past is like when we do the movie nights and those

165things at the apartment complexes with other organizations I've partnered with. What's nice about that is you're going to where your kids are. You know, people are not having to go far. So, you're getting a ton of information, a ton of organic information. Um, and I think part of our communication strategy improves when people begin to trust your board members, right? So, they see you in places like you said, they need to be organic. It doesn't always have to be a formal listening session. Um, even though I think there is value to those as well. Um, but I think some of it does need to be more organic, but it doesn't mean so when I say organic, it doesn't mean that we don't have a plan, right? So, just like we know what what our agenda

166is, there are community activities that are planned throughout the year and we have our schedule planned throughout the year. So, it doesn't hurt to know that there's this community event that is happening near the time that we'll be talking about budgeting. This is a great time for board members to go out and, you know, say, "Hey, we're we're going to be talking about the budget. Do you have questions about the budget?" We're not creating a new event. We're just informing people at a event they're already at, right? I mean, these are what I am saying when I say organic. I'm not saying that board that as a board we don't have a plan and we're just, oh, hey, I'm Stephanie. No, we are sitting here, we have a schedule. Do we bring little pamphlets that

167say this is what's upcoming, this is what you may need to know. You know, are we greeting um parents at the do they still do the transportation fair? you know, th things like this where people are already gathering with their kids and not necessarily a booth, but we know this is the date of this event and we know what's on our calendar in that quarter. So maybe we focus and talk about these upcoming issues at these events. And I know that's a little bit more internal, but it's not more work. So this is not us adding anything to our schedule. This is us being strategic about uh the board being consistent in the information that we are putting out to the parents, right? So, am I making sense here? So, we're all talking about the

168same topic. So, they're like, "Oh, yeah. I spoke to director Marvin and she said that, you know, you guys have budgeting coming up and this is da da da da." And I spoke to director, you know, Karen. But it gives us consistency, which in turn gives us trust, right? Because they know that we're on one accord. They know that we're all discussing this. They're not going here getting one answer, going here getting another answer. And I think that helps bring people in because trust is a big thing. And if they think that there's disorder or chaos or confusion, people don't come. But if we as internal group come up with a plan to engage the community, we may have success. But with a plan, I don't I think whenever I say plan, people think I'm

169trying to tell them to plan new listening sessions. And no, I'm talking about utilizing what's already happening in the community so that we can engage with I said a lot of words. Thank you. Um to build on that, I think um there's all part of the planning, you know, I like to plan um is also to coordinate with the superintendent in the community engagement and feedback process that he does with his team in bringing us a recommendation that there that the community engagement is happening at the recommendation development level and there can be additional community engagement prior to us making the decision. But I like the idea of I mean we have the ABCD for a reason, right? We know what our big decisions are for a year. And the superintendent, you know, we we

170got an email this week where the superintendent was talking about how they can make information available to board members about the district events on the district calendar more clearly so that we know when there are things like Director Marvin said, you know, go to a building, be at an event, be present, be there to, you know, answer questions. But I think, you know, in the as the superintendent and the exec committee, especially around the referendum, we learned about a lot of these events that were happening in the community, but we also learned how hard it is to manage that calendar and we don't really have somebody in the district right now in in that role. Um, so that would be some work is, you know, putting putting together those events and then matching it to

171what we think might be the topics that might come up there. I love the idea of having a handout because you also know how I feel about handouts. Um, but I but I also want us to keep in mind the coordination with some of these big decisions that are coming up and that there's engagement planned on the part of the superintendent and staff before they bring us the recommendation as well. So, we don't want to be doing two things at once. We don't want to be out getting feedback before we've even seen, you know, the recommendation from the superintendent that he's asking us to consider. >> Director Moffus, as you talk about that, I think that there's room that we can grow in maybe things like talking points or pivot topics. So, if we're talking

172to somebody about something that they're interested in, how do we pivot to then potentially get input from them on things that we're working on? >> We start with their interest and then we try to direct them to >> or at least probe them like we have them there. >> We're giving them information. You know, can we turn that and pivot that to getting potentially some information from them as well? director. >> Yeah. So, to put the two things together with what we were just discussing on our on our self evaluation is getting information out to the public. And often times the public doesn't know they need the information until they actually need to know the information. So, we could provide okay here's here's a communication structure. You know, if you have a problem with your

173child at school, this is what you follow. You don't immediately jump to the school board, but they don't need to they don't maybe not they might not know that until they're actually in that situation where they immediately jump to the school board because they've had no reason to have to know it earlier. Did that make sense? >> And so I I see that as a tension for how do we get them How do we get the information out that we think would be helpful for them when they communicate with us? And maybe one thing we could do would be to say, what information do you need that would be helpful for you when you communicate with us? And just um I thought that time you mentioned like scheduling and calendar. So um Allan has that

174beam I just looked it's still up it's still active and it has been but it's called DMC beam where he puts all of the community activities that that he's made aware of into one calendar and if it's educational if it's you know whatever he's got it all highlighted. So, he may be someone grassroots organization that we could partner with to have that information in one space and not just for us as a board, but also, you know, for the community. It's it's nice to have a nice little central hub to go. So, I think that I know he does put RPS um events on here as well. I've seen those overtime, so it's just a matter of notification. But, I think it's one of those things where we don't have to reinvent a wheel. If

175someone already has a system that's up and running, you know, maybe we just help promote that amongst the community and add, you know, whatever notable events to that. That could be a solution. So, the calendar, >> let's hold our um getting a little bit more into specifics. Let's work through the other two goals and then we can talk about how some of the conversation structures and goals. Our second goal from last year was to establish a plan for board members to visit all school buildings, programs, and departments by the end of the 2024 25 school year. We modified that a little bit after we um developed our skip visits, our monthly visits to um the schools um to talk about the skip visits and see skips in action. We did do um one visit every

176month um from October through May and we covered elementary, middle and high school. Um I think um pretty uniformly uh we heard great feedback from the people we were visiting. Um I think it proved uh director Marvin's statement how thrilled the teachers and the staff were to see us. I mean, we see the principles maybe most often because some of them might come and present, but to be able to walk into a classroom and spend some time interacting with the teachers and seeing the students, um, a lot of people commented they hadn't seen that for a while from board members. So, I think I think that was um, um, an advantage. Um, and there's, as I understand it, as we think forward to perhaps a goal for next year, uh, I am hearing that it's

177something we might want to need to do. Um and um any other comments about the skip visits or what we should keep in mind for developing a goal for that for next year? Dr. Martin, >> I absolutely agree uh that that would be a really important goal to continue because not only I think does it validate the students and the staff that we see you, we know you're doing a great job and um and we're spend we want to spend time here but also when we're talking to community members especially those who don't have kids in school you know when we talk to them about the things that are happening in in our schools it's not just well I heard it you've seen it no that firsthand visit I think is huge because you can

178see the faces of the kids you can hear them you can watch how our expert staff is interacting and I think it gives real credibility um to us when we're talking to the broader community again, especially people who may not have kids in schools that this good stuff really is happening. Well, I think one of the things that I've said a few times is that I wanted a drone hovering over my shoulder to take a drone's eye view of our visits because there were the small moments of just watching a table of three um doing an activity that the teacher had just presented. We really got to see the wit and wisdom implementation happening. um we learn new words about um literacy some board members like more than others. Um but and I think the

179skip process um we talk about it here at the table. It's it is very um strate it's very strategic >> and even it takes a few times to sort of understand how all the components work together. But the principles that we visited did a great job of showing us their skip goals and then saying and watch watch how we're doing it. And for me it really helped then when I came back to the next time we talked about a skip strategy or a component or what a goal was versus a strategy. Really understanding what it means and that our buildings are getting right. They're they're they're not just saying, "Oh, it's another, you know, binder on a table." They're actually buying into it and implementing it. So, yes, I would love to continue this next

180year. Anything else, Senator Skip Visit? >> I have a quick question. So, yeah, I think it's a great goal. I'm glad that we met it. Um, but since we've met it, I guess when I think goals, I think it's something new. So, is this something that could be moved over to a best practice, something that we continue to measure um so that we can create new goals to accomplish or is this or do we want goals that we've already accomplished? Does that make sense what I'm saying? >> I personally would like to see it as a goal because I don't think if we have it as a priority, especially as the skip uh process is changing >> and um that we may have to modify it depending on what we find out about open meeting

181laws. Um we may have to do it differently. So I personally like it as one of our priorities because I think it shows the community um we have a structured way of visiting our schools. Now I don't mean to say that there aren't other goals that might be similar >> in terms of reaching out to the community that we can't add. >> Okay. >> Um but I personally like to keep it as a goal. I think for for myself as a school board member, it was it was really um gratifying to see the words on the strategic plan actually being implemented and the results that we saw in student achievement. Um I think that's I mean I think that's really important because otherwise it's just this highlevel thing up here >> that we don't really

182know what's the result been. So I would certainly second uh this on on having this to be a continuing goal. We may decide to do a little bit differently or you know it's one of those I think it's one of those goals that you never meet. >> Okay, >> because it's constantly a work >> continue to grow. >> All right. Anything else on goal two? And goal three, the board will research and consider options for updates to comments to the board policy and procedure. And that is in progress because the board will be getting uh detailed information related to policy 206 and procedure 206A um before or at before the August 5th meeting for discussion at the August 5th meeting and then subsequent meetings because you know it takes three meetings to look at our

183policies and procedures. But um we've done some research. We presented that research to the policy committee who came up with some recommendations um as to how to enhance or improve uh comments to the board that we'll be bringing for discussion. So hopefully that will be a goal director we can check off and not have to do it again next year. All right. So given those three things um I sent out to the board ahead of time and I believe it's also in symbol um the uh structure of public participation um the chart I'm looking for right now public participation spectrum this struck me because I don't want to say that I could have predicted a lot of the things that we brought up. But um I think we've talked about them before and I think

184um we struggled with them in completing the listening sessions. We've seen how difficult it is to pull together uh events and um places to attend when we were doing the referendum and even just scheduling our time. Um, we tried the recap written, we tried the recap on video and we didn't see very much um, uh, uptake and like director Whitehart said, we're putting things out there and maybe we're not getting the kind of feedback we want and we don't really know how we're even measuring it. So, I was thinking that not tonight, but perhaps we could consider as a goal related to this communication and engagement that we um set aside some time maybe at a future study session or maybe it begins with a subgroup of the community engagement committee to um think about

185what a plan might be. um perhaps using this structure of inform, consult, involve, and collaborate because when I look at that example tools at the last row, it represents a lot of the things that we're talking about doing or that we already have in place like fact sheets could be a newsletter, but we already have a website. Well, how effective is our website? is there uh we've talked a little bit in the past about the possibility of using a page on our website to uh be a hub of our agenda items. So if there's a section on the website and there's a button you can push and you can access every all the meetings where we talked about the budget. So you don't have to go to assembly and do a comp complicated search, but

186all of our budget discussions for the year are linked um through, you know, one button on our website. That's how can we use our website better? Um open houses um and public meetings and focus groups, public comment, we already have a lot of that. We're talking about how to make it better. Um that's under the consult piece. Involve uh workshops, deliberative polling and study group. That for me is that piece of coordinating with the superintendent on upcoming recommendations. Um when is it right for the superintendent to do a focus group or a study group on an item that's coming to the board and when is it right for us to to do that kind of outreach. And then finally collaborate. You know the citizen advisory committees. We're going to be talking about those when we

187bring the um policies to the board at the next meeting. there's some changes in some of the structures of those, but internally having conversations about how to make CCIC better and some of our other advisory committees. Um, and then of course the big one, the strategic planning and that we're about to undertake. Um, you know, how can we make sure that we're using all of these best practices? Um, so this is just a structure that helped me to think about all of the pieces. Um, and I think for each one, um, we need to think about how we're going to measure how effective it is. Um, because I don't think we've done it. And I don't know if someone would say that our YouTube videos weren't successful because, you know, we only had so many

188views. Well, if we had YouTube videos and and a newsletter, we combined those totals, is that is that an adequate amount of feedback we're getting or views that we're getting? Um, that is what we're trying to accomplish. So, I sent it to you. I had a time to think about and said that we would offer some thoughts tonight. So, anybody have any thoughts? >> Superintendent. Well, you know, obviously I I leave the uh board's development of the board's goals to the board and I really admire the fact that you um have taken the community engagement piece so seriously and I think we would be glad to support the board in all of the steps you just shared. As I'm listening to the conversation though, one thought occurs to me and I took a just like

189off the top of my head moment to write it down. In the years I've been here, very often the board's goals have been about board process, which is what you're talking about, and it makes sense. And I'm not suggesting that shouldn't be, but the goals for changing the system or schools have often been the board's goals for me. Like, we've expressed that in my goals, which is certainly important. But we haven't integrated them into the board's goals in most years. They've been work process goals for the board. And that's one way to do it. But I was thinking, well, what would an alternative approach, not alternative, an additional approach be? So, if it wasn't just here's our goals for how we work together as board members, but here's what the board is going to seek

190to achieve. And this won't surprise either of you. The two big ones that came to my mind are the the skip process at the school level and the strategic plan process at the build at the system level. And I just said, well, how would I write that? A goal for the board could be guide the development of school continuous improvement plans for the 2026 2027 school year that include evidence-based goals and strategies for improving outcomes on the performance measures approved by the RPS school board in spring 2025. So if you get to the end of the year, you're saying, "Do we have plans in our school improvement plans that are evidence ba evidence-based plans that are going to point our schools toward the performance measures you'd approved last spring?" Um, and then on the strategic

191plan, I thought guide the development of a new strategic plan that utilizes stakeholder feedback, evidence, and research to enable Rochester public schools to make transformative progress toward achieving the new mission, vision, and values that the board will approve in the fall of 2025. Um, we you'd have to think about that and and and do it. And maybe that's not what we want by board goals because maybe the board goals are really truly your work together and the goals for the work of the system are the goals you approved for me or that are in the strategic plan. But it just occurred to me then that it would be a very different endeavor if at the end of the year you all were saying did we achieve goals like this? It would actually not be so

192much superintendent did you achieve those goals. Now, obviously, my goals would need to be aligned with your goals. Like, if I had different goals, we're not going to get anywhere. But you'd be at the end of the year and instead of reviewing goals like what we're looking at from last year, which were about like the skip visits and things like that, good goals for board process, you'd be saying as a go as a as a board, did we achieve this goal for the work that like we set as a goal for our board? Um it would be a very different way of of thinking about how we've done it in some past years and and and maybe just duplicative because we're already doing that through the goals that you're you know setting for me putting

193in the strategic plan or improving but it' be like board taking ownership of some kind of a goal like >> I looked at it and I I'm listening I again I guess I I struggle, right? Because I don't feel like it's not that we don't do these things. Again, um the only new thing that I saw on this that I guess I hadn't considered was the citizen advis advisory committee. And I've been giving some thought into what that looks like, right? like how do we how would we enact that or how could we utilize that um when we're looking at just involving and and then like to uh to the superintendent like how do we measure that? How will we be able to really successfully measure because I think if we measure it based on

194did we do it? Did we send out fact sheets? Sure. Did we put a new link in the website for parent um you know information? Sure. But how do we How how will we know that this is effective? As we've all said, it's not that we haven't done these things, but we're obviously not seeing I mean, very visibly not seeing the the particip participation levels go up or um at the one skip visit we were at, again, I'm bad with names, I'm bad with places, I'm I am not a history teacher. um where they said they had almost all of their parents at their one event. Like how >> I think it was >> Yeah, I might have. >> Um but how do we duplicate that? Like how do we get a little bit of

195that secret sauce? Like how do we get that that participation up? I think there are some places that do it very successfully. I don't think this is a reinvent the wheel thing. I just think we need to maybe step back and say this is not a space that we're great at and we we need some better consult because we've tried all of what seems obvious if that makes >> well and I think in setting the goals for me it's very easy for me to want to jump into that conversation about engagement across the district but I I think about we have a family engagement team each school is doing that work. It's part of our strategic plan defining what we want the community to be engaged with relative rel relative to the board. >> And

196I think it's different for me thinking about a cafeteria full of Elton Elton Hills people having food, playing games, and learning about um other cultures, right? That I don't I don't know that that's the kind of engagement >> we're looking for with our board work. So that's why I like having the goals that are process because I think we have to think carefully about what parts of the process we have the resources for as the board because we have resources that we can work with from the superintendent, but we can't, you know, turn the whole ship of the of the district to meeting our board goals as well. I just think about that trade-off. Director, sorry. Um >> well so I I think the uh the goals around community engagement and better um communication with

197the community um are things that we've uh we've we've uh we've tried a few different things. The the videos, the summaries, the um listening sessions. And I guess I um I I think we're not that there isn't an interest in the community in better understanding what the school board is doing and what it's up to and the nature of the decisions, but I I just think we're we're mostly um creating a solution in one of a problem. It's it's I like the idea of having goals for the board that are centered on what we're doing at the board table. I guess I especially with the listening sessions um and you know we've certainly done a few of them not as many in the past year but I just always think you know this is all

198the type of conversations that we're all individually having continuously because we were all elected. We know plenty of people and we're all very accessible. And what we're really charged with is maintaining those connections with the community, attending, you know, the back to school parade among a hundred other things and being on the sidelines at the soccer game and having conversations in the stand and being at the band concerts and all the all the rest. and then letting that inform our judgment at the board table and and not always being like the vector for the most recent conversation that we had with whichever group. And I I like the idea of a goal that is focused on really sound judgment at the board table. And and so the the couple that the superintendent recommended I think

199make a lot of sense to me. Um, I wouldn't say that we need to get rid of the skip visits or the other things, but I I think the primary purpose of all those things has always been how does that make me inform my judgment at the board table to make those decisions as opposed to like a way to signal community engagement or recognition to staff or something. I mean, those are all kind of nice to haves, but the the real purpose is giving me information that allows me to make a better decision on something coming up. >> Have any thoughts that might bring us closer to some language? He just said, >> I like what he said and I agree and I don't I don't think I agree exactly with what Director Cook said.

200Um but I do think there are some things we could do to just engage the community in some ways like we've added uh you know the recognition of students you know we can add you know I mean I just I would like to see I know that is what we are as public servants doing daily but it would be nice to see the community more involved with the school. I think it lessens some of the burden like all the work we had to do all the work that that everyone did for the referend referendum. I applaud you but I think that if we have better community engagement when those things happen the all the burden isn't going to be on the board because we have a better relationship with the community if if that makes

201I don't know maybe I'm going somewhere else. I I'm not sure what it was exactly that you just said, but somehow it prompted a thought that doesn't seem like it's connected. Um >> that's what I do. Well, that's my art. >> One one um one thought that just occurred that we that would be measurable and is related to our our work at the board table in the context of decisions. I I think our relationship with the community and really our decision-m generally benefits a great deal when the rationale for decisions is very clearly articulated. Um because it it just helps with transparency generally, but I think it also helps to ensure anyone who might be wondering about it whether this board is a rubber stamp for every single recommendation that comes before it. I don't

202think we are. Um, but I I think taking the time to very clearly explain um, you know, and maybe we could define it. Um, I don't know that we want to make this a goal, but some I'm kind of workshopping here. um in instances of disagreement with the the um the district's recommend or the superintendent's recommendation to clearly explain that in a in a board meeting or um >> or instances of agreement. >> Yeah. Or and I I mean, you know, we could take it to an extreme. We don't want to do that for every item on the consent agenda, but um >> well, and I I think about the what you're talking about happens at board meetings, and I continue to struggle with how many people our decisions affect that will never watch a

203board meeting. It's just not their thing. Totally get it. Um yet we continue to hear about people not knowing about the decisions until later and and they're usually hearing from it from a source that isn't us. They're hearing from it from the media where we benefit from having people who do come to our meetings and follow decisions over time. But not all of those stories are available to the general public and sometimes people just read a headline and you know don't get into the to the detailed nuance of the the conversation that we all had and I still struggle about you know it has somebody found that secret sauce of telling the community either beforehand what's coming up which is what we tried to do with the ABCD but I think what director said some

204you read the ABCD sometimes a language you don't you don't know what what it is we're really talking about or that you know this decision might mean combining schools right unless you actually paid attention to our conversation um so I I want to give people the chance to provide input before we make decisions and then I want people to understand the decisions that we've made and where to find out about what the implications are you know for their employment, their families, etc. So, I I still struggle with bringing what we do here out of this room and what's the right way to do that >> that that is the question. And again also so that we're not having these conversations that don't relate because this this is why I say with the community sometimes they're

205behind so or they don't understand as she said as uh chair Nathan said that you know that this decision will impact these following things right uh it says transportation but what what parts of transportation are we talking about? Um, and when we do meet with the public, we can tell there's a disconnect because of exactly what everyone just said, that they're ranting about something else that we maybe even have already addressed. But that just goes to show that there's this disconnect in the, you know, in the in the in the chain of communication. Um, even when I speak with people, they're two or three um meetings behind of, you know, things that we've already maybe even voted on and decided. um but they're still there because they never got the opportunity to express whatever it

206was that they wanted to express or what they're expressing, you know, would have been better if they had told, you know, told us when we were discussing it two months ago. I just, as Chair Nathan said, how do we how do we fill that in so that we can be more effective as well when we're talking with the community? >> Well, we're we're not going to solve all this tonight. Our goal is to try to identify at least some areas for our goals. Um, is that is anybody uh interested in setting a goal to de to do some research and develop a communication and engagement plan? maybe research what some other districts are doing or pick may maybe it dovtales with what the superintendent suggested about focusing our goals around some of the big out

207uh performance outcomes. Um maybe we can target our communication plan around just like two big decisions that we're making in the upcoming year. um as opposed to every little piece of information or decision that we make and piloting it that way just to see you know how our communication works. I mean, our communication we can say is available, right? We have Simly, we have the ABCD, we're on TV, YouTube, uh, every meeting. So, it's not that the information isn't available, but it's that it's that poke like the poking we did during the referendum. There's we still haven't quite figured out that extra um, megaphone that we need for some of the the information we're doing. And maybe it's more important for some of our upcoming decisions than others, right? Maybe we identified some of these

208upcoming decisions that we want to make sure happen and happen right um and we want to make sure that we're communicating and engaging the community on those decisions as opposed to every single thing we do. Director I would be happy to work on something like that and I think you know she said maybe uh what we need to do is to determine what are going to be some and Dr. because you were saying some of the key issues that this district will be dealing with and then um see what the plan is to get that information in connection with the administration out to the public knowing there are a whole lot of people who are going to hear it and not care or hear it and not remember. I was a teacher for 40 years.

209I know how this works. It's not because that's just the nature. You know, if it doesn't matter to me right now, I'm maybe not going to be paying attention. Right now, I'm worried about my kids math grade. That's where my focus is. Um, but if we can tie it to some key issues like the strategic plan and then um go from there. Here's some information and I want your feedback. Not just I need you to know that this there's going to be a test, but here's some information. Here's some different ways we can get it out. do the best we can and then make sure we listen and whether people get it the first time or have questions the second time. I think that's part of our job is to listen and then provide that

210feedback to administration. But I would be happy to work on that draft. >> I'm thinking about things like that too, things like newsletters, you know, if they're sent out by email, that kind of thing. I think it'd be helpful also to have any data that we can access related to clicks or that kind of thing. You know, who's opening them, who's not, anything related to that I think would inform us as to who we're reaching and about what >> and I think you mentioned the citizen advisory committees. I think we already have those in our policy and it's part of the conversation that the polic committ have at our August meeting I think um to talk about how they might be able to be made um more robust as director Marvin said not just information

211out but feedback in and where they fit into some of the decisions we already make as a board >> and I do agree that this is a larger issue and I do I I do agree with us picking a topic or two topics and kind of using those as our lab to see how how we get the best feedback back and you know maybe focusing and seeing how you know what as um um as director Mclofflin said if we you know our newsletter is getting us good responses or what what is getting us those clicks or those responses. So maybe we can start to target our for lack of better words marketing in the direction spend those dollars in a way that is actually effective. Um, even though we have all these different options, maybe

212we're spending money in spaces that are not, you know, that we're not getting any anything back. >> We're hoping to do this. >> Well, praise the Lord. I like that even better. Free is the best practice. >> Okay. So, one goal that I feel like we're coalesing around is to have a committee, and it could be the community engagement committee or a subcommittee. um work on a targeted communication and engagement around some of our big issues that we are going to be making decisions on in the next school year. Sound like a draft that I can work with. Okay. Um a second one is to continue the skip visits. I think I've heard that's something we want to keep doing. Um Director Marvin spoke about us attending other school and district and community events. um

213which I think we talk about doing that, but I know personally there have been a lot of things that I've seen in the paper and I don't know that they're happening, but I know that director Marvin knew about it because I saw her talk about it and the superintendent has already offered to um help us get access to the district events. Um but as I said, you know, internally we've talked about it. We just don't have the superintendent will help us if he for example gets invited to a community event or know or or knows about it. Um but if we're really talking about these other community events, I think we're going to have to do some concentrated effort to really find that so that all board members know about it ahead of time. We

214may also have to have a conversation about um our budget because some of those events are there there's a registration fee required or you know it might be a dinner or something. So we may have to talk about how how to budget that. Um >> I'd be willing to help with that. >> Okay. >> I get a lot of lot of stuff filled through. >> Stephanie willing to help with that. It covers my other thing is that I wanted to identify people. We'll just identify leads and then as we work through these goals, we can talk about ways for other people to get involved. How's that? Then the last thing, which we haven't talked about, but I did send it out ahead of time because we talked about it last year was discussing options for

215our primary election in 2026. We had talked about this in the past and uh we have to if we if we are to choose to not have a primary election in an election year, we have to decide by April of 2026. And the last time we talked about it, we decided to just put it on hold because we didn't have an election coming up. So, we thought, you know, let's just wait. Um but there was some conversation about do we want to get community engagement on this topic? um what kind of other information does the board need? Um another factor that sort of entered into this is the leg the the legislature passed a law pushing the um candidate application date up two weeks. So instead of it being um what is it end of

216May, >> it's moved up. If we were to have a primary election, it would be moved up earlier in May through that first week of June. And then of course for the um if we were to just do a general election, it would be mid mid July through August. Um so I don't know how is this something that board members even want to explore. Um it would at this point we're not committing to anything. We're just committing to putting in the time to do some research about what the options are and what it would mean. >> Okay. Can you give me more info? I'm totally >> So, right now we have a primary and a general election, but we're one of very few school districts in the state that actually have a primary election. >>

217So, if we weren't to have a primary election, it would be however many people sign up for each seat. >> So, you instead of having two, you could have three or four or five. We have not had that many candidates in a schoolboard election recently >> in as long as I can remember. Um, and then it would just be the largest vote total on election day >> in November. >> Okay. >> Um, and we had talked in the past about the pros of that are it's during primary. A lot of the work is during the summer. Our primary audience for some of our votes, our parents, our families, our staff are not engaged with school issues. um it may be harder to get candidates, especially if they have kids to commit to, you know, summer.

218Whereas, if if all you had was one election, you could devote all your time, you know, you could start in the summer if you wanted to, but the actual candidate um application would happen in the fall for a November election. >> So, no one would fall out. So, it would >> Right. It would just be for one seat. It wouldn't matter. Okay. All right. highest total per se, right? >> Dr. Murph, >> well, I still don't understand our seat thing that we have. Um, and I'm not sure that anybody does in particular. But it seems to me that if we're going to change the way people um are going to vote that we should I would feel a lot better if we survey our community and just say pros and cons of having a primary.

219We don't have a primary. We save money. Yeah. It's just pros and cons and tell us what you think. >> Okay. >> I think one of the things that was confusing in not this most recent election but when The 2022 election was when three seats had primaries and the other seat did not have a primary, which was my seat because there was only one opponent. And people would come up to me and say, "Why aren't you on this list? Why aren't you running? Why don't I see your name when I vote for you?" And it's part of that whole confusion about the seats and you file for a seat and you vote for, you know, >> if you only have two people register for the primary, it automatically goes to the general election. >> Correct.

220And that's state law. >> And any change in our seat structure. So primary seat would require action by the legis. So, >> Dr. McL, >> I have one more thing to add to the mix that I haven't really thought all the way through, but it has occurred to me at times that in some ways in my mind the answer to this question might be different if it's a presidential election or not. That it seems like the local landscape of the election process appears different >> when it's a presidential year versus a non-presidential year. So I think that in my mind complicates it a little bit. >> Well, and not necessarily saying we would want to do this, but it is a decision we can make for every election. >> Oh. >> By April of that

221year. >> Wow. Okay. >> So if we tried it and you know our turnout, for example, went down or something, you know, we can always make that decision for every election. We have the option. I mean, and I and I think that's the other thing with the primary um happening when it does or having to file and then having the primary in August is that as you said mentioned, Chair Nathan, that a lot of people their radar isn't even on it yet because kids aren't back in school, you know, for parents particularly. Um, and the other thing is is I think primaries can be very lopsided because people who feel very intensely passionate about one side or the other make it a point to come out for the primary and other people are just not

222paying attention. I mean, that's not our problem to solve. But I think um it might provide more people might feel that they have more options if there aren't if there isn't a primary because then they can focus just on the general election and not have to be concerned about a primary. >> And thank you for that Dr. Workman because I was thinking about something similar is that because we are a nonpartisan race, we don't designate ourselves as parties. We're not a ated with a a larger movement. Um, narrowing it down to two candidates for a general election makes it look like a binary choice, but I think a lot of the issues that we face in our district don't always lend themselves to binary solutions. So to me, I agree with you, Director Workman, the

223more people in the mix of the conversation longer, >> the more ideas I think might be drawn through to election day in November as opposed to either or. And I and I I think we've seen either or >> in in a number of the recent elections. So without solving it tonight, is this a goal that we would like to put on to explore and we can come back to the board with the plan? >> I have one last question about it though. So how would that doesn't impact the other it would just be the school board backing out, right? So whatever other primaries are there are, right? It just wouldn't be school board members. That's what we're telling. Okay. Just double check. >> Yes. >> Both. Yeah, I think so. I think so. Okay. >>

224All right. I'll probably watch this video five times and try to come up with some draft language and share it around and then we'll have a conversation along. Thank you. And uh share it around on August 5th. >> Sorry, Chair Nathan. I'm looking back at the the notes that you had sent around to uh help motivate this discussion. >> Oh, no. But uh one of the things on the on the first point or the first goal on community engagement and recognizing that the community engagement committee is going to uh study that a little bit and and maybe look at some recommendations for us. But one of the one of the bullet points you highlighted was um improving or changing responsibilities of the community curriculum instruction and advisory committee and perhaps other community engagement. um committees.

225That's something that from a policy perspective, the board certainly could do. Evaluate whether there's additional ways to empower some of our um advisory committees. And kind of to your point earlier, um Director Marvin, that we really do need to take their advice in some meaningful way when we gather these people together to provide their input. And um I don't have a clear sense on what form that might take, but um but maybe there's something that we could do around um the the various community engagement and advisory committees that we have from a policy perspective that the board could really take action on. Um >> and I think that's on our policy committee agenda for August. So hopefully we'll have something to look forward. >> All right. Anything else on our goals? No. All right. Um

226I think Ann is gonna put a slide up. Our next item is other business. Um speaking of ABCD, it's available in the agenda item. We have our next regular meeting is August 5th where we'll have our focus topic, graduation rate analysis and overview of the 9th grade on track initiative. a monitoring item on staff development plan and budget review and the superintendent evaluation for 2024-25 leadership component report tonight's um close session action on the girls hockey co-op and the approval of the 202526 student handbook and then we will have another close session to further discuss the leadership component um part two of the information then on August 12th we have a retreat on our new strategic plan any other items board members would like to Um, madam man, I'd like to respectfully request that we

227table my evaluation for tonight. We've been at this for more than three hours. Um, and I've had a date that started at 7. We've been dealing with uh issues of uh very specific uh concern. This is a high stakes opportunity for me and I think to conduct uh CEO evaluation at quarter to nine after a meeting that's gone more than three hours. Um, so I'm going to I'd be glad to work with the executive committee to reshape the timeline. I don't feel it's appropriate time for you to conduct my evaluation um at this time. >> Okay. Here. Here. Um >> so do we have a motion to amend the agenda? >> So move second. >> Has been moved and uh seconded to amend the agenda to remove this to uh table it to table it

228to a later date. All those in favor say I. >> I opposed. >> Thank you, Superintendent. Um, so let's finish up with our upcoming dates. Um, our next meeting is August 5th from 4 to 6 PM. Notice the time is different. Our retreat starts at 6 o'clock p.m. on August 12th. And then we have a regular meeting on August 19th and September 9th at 5:30 and both of those are regular meetings. And hearing no other business, this meeting is adjourned at 8:50 p.m. What you mean you don't want to do your evaluation in the middle of the night?