001five. Okay. So that's good to realize that oh it's not just rampant but uh I am curious as to um well where it falls you know racial epitat religious overtones uh how they're addressed and uh then where do we see them or is it possible or is there a reason why they're not necessarily spelled out specifically uh as a uh person of color who serves a predominantly African-American congregation. Uh I hear from parents and students saying, "Well, this is what's going on." And and I'm surprised you're not saying or doing anything. Uh and not that I'm now broaching the subject so I can tell them, "See, I said something. I did something." but to sincerely just hear uh what the u administrative view is and the level of I don't want to say tolerance but
002the level of uh addressing uh these type of infractions are and then depending uh then on on your response I may have a secondh question to like to start. So, um, as far as your first part of the question where it would fall dependent upon within the investigation, it could be under harassment, um, could be under language, could be under bullying. And so, all any of those pieces with that investigation happens. Um, and the next part of your question is I I think was the next part was um, what actions taken. Okay, there have been circles. That's one of the pieces that that happen. Um quite often it's a suspension and I I can't say that every single time. I can't say nine out of 10. I feel like it's about nine out of 10
003times it's a suspension along with um with with maybe restorative piece within it. Um as far as it being spelled out in here, remember we use the dur pieces within that. we have to go back through and and look look at comments to figure out um what was the reason for it. Um but I would say um and I guess that more often more often of the language pieces in those are because of that word. I think the f word is the the other piece where a teacher would call that um or another student type of thing. But I would say this is feels like when when we get these calls that's what it is. Um, as as a building administrator, um, when this happens in your building, you look at it immediately. It's it's
004not not a thing you wait on until tomorrow. Um, it's one of those pieces you you look at now. Um, and you do your due diligence investigating and with the kids of what took place. And then there's a teachable moment within that. um whether it's teachable moment with with us or whether or not I have to bring in somebody else um to help with that that that part of it but it's there there's a piece that has to be in that it's teachable there's also going to be a consequence with it um it's not taken lightly does it happen absolutely unfortunately absolutely >> so then my I'm sorry >> oh I was going to say I think the same could be said for um not just racist language but uh transphobic and homophobic language also
005um and that also when we do restorative circles. At least in my experience at Kellogg and I think probably practice widely across the district, a circle may be appropriate if both parties are willing. But in many cases, a student on the receiving end of some sort of hateful speech u might not be interested in sitting down with another student. So um during my time at Kellogg, sometimes a student maybe would write a letter or they would try to find some other way to extend an apology, but we you know we don't force kids to sit down and talk with one another. um especially with consideration for the victim's perspective. >> We might bring in another group um that may have that conversation too on that we work with that's been actually very successful with some
006of our larger issues that come. So, Madam Chair, if I may, um, of the instances where uh, language is used, probably there are occasions when because of that language, fights ensue. >> Good point. Yes. and administrators from what I have heard have discretion uh and tend to assess evaluate the causal components of the fight what led up to and um I guess I would like to can you perhaps share an example uh of of how that is addressed or how a principal or administrator moves in those types of situations because often Often times if it results in a out of school suspension, parents will be, you mean my son, my daughter, they're being suspended because they got in a fight because somebody called them this or that and uh you know, so can you >>
007Okay, thank you. >> Certainly. Yeah. And that's actually a good point. I missed that one of one that could be could be a fight. So let's say that happens and it turns into a fight. They aren't going to label that as a harassment or language or bullying. They're label as a fight. Okay. Um, are there situations that the fight occurred because of that word being used? Absolutely. >> And in some of those situations, are both kids suspended? Absolutely not. And I say that every time. No. But there are that's part of that discretion piece that is brought in and part of that um conversation that the administrator has to do with with investigating. And that's where their team comes into play. That's where witnesses come into play. That's where past situations have come into play.
008um with the student or students that have come forward or our office um that we work with. But there are times and I'm not going to give it a specific example because it might out of school that way. But there are there are times in the last since April that I can say at least three to five that happened that were not suspended out because of this situation. >> Thank you, >> Ch. Um yeah, Dr. Barl, I thank you and I appreciate you sharing your uh uh personal experience, your family's experience, which is uh terrible. I I I just want to commit for us to come back to this. Um this is this is a huge issue. Um after we had the n-word appear on the bridge near Century, I had a lot of conversations
009with staff and kids about this. Um my experience which is much more remote than Chris's which is not directly in schools uh was that um in and I heard this from kids too when a white kid is using uh that term the consequences if an administrator hears it and can verify it are uh usually acted upon. Um we do have a phenomenon and I had many students of color uh talk to me about this saying that word to each other uh which is a complex phenomenon for some of our uh administrators. that's not what you were experiencing. It's something um and then I do want to not um shift the focus from what you're talking about, but I think it's incumbent upon me to say there have been a few instances in the four years
010since I've been in Rochester where staff used that word. They used that word in every instance quoting a song, a literate piece of literature or a student. And in every instance, I took disciplinary action and made very clear that that is not an acceptable term to use in Rochester public schools ever as a staff member and as an educator. And in multiple instances, those staff were shocked that it was inappropriate to use it, which shocked me. But I that's not the story you're saying, but it's related. And the kids take a lot from the adults. And so even though we're in the dead of summer and it's July, I don't want to let the subject go by without saying that term is never appropriate in Rochester public schools facility in any context. Even if you're
011quoting a work of great literature by black author in our district at this time, there are ways to teach that content without needing to have kids hear that term coming uh from a person in authority. church. >> All right, y'all ready? I had a couple things. Okay, so um I'd be remiss if I didn't say anything because my my passion is really in the disruption of the school to prison pipeline. So I looked at this data. I looked at it a couple times and there's some things that are bothering me just a little bit and I'm just and if nobody responds, that's fine. Just want to get off my own chest. So, when we look at these numbers and we look at the decrease of the infractions that have gone down, and I know we
012maybe glanced over this suspension rate chart, but there were some things that bothered me. One, if the amount of infractions are going down, how is the number of kids and that are black and Latino went up on that chart? And it I mean we're talking small numbers, so we're talking small percentages. But if the numbers declined, but yet the number of kids of color increased, this is a problem for me. And here's where I'm going. I'm struggling with disciplinary things with the schools because I, as a parent, um as a community advocate, I believe in rules. Rules are rules are necessary. They're needed. um discipline is necessary and is needed. Where I am struggling is with this discretion piece when we have such a gap of inequity with our disciplinary issues. My concern is is
013the discretion ever going to be used appropriately. So, if we have granted discretion and I'm looking at this number go up, I'd be willing to bet a nickel that it'll go up again by another percent because that's the trend that we're seeing. We're seeing that the the discipline numbers went down, but we see that it went up 2% with black students and it went up 1% and then went up two another percent with Latino students. So, my concern, but it went down with white students, right? So we have less white students getting in trouble, but we still have more black and Latino students getting in trouble even in this small demographic. So my question or my concern is are we even able to truly say at this table that we are able to use discretion
014appropriately because we have these these gaps, these disparities and they're not moving. Um, and when they are moving, they're they're tending to move in the wrong direction. And the reason why I struggle with this is I feel like some discretion is necessary in all issues when we're dealing with children. And I don't want to see kids being having things placed on their records um unnecessarily on either side. But I feel that if we are in a city or we're in a school system where we are trying to lessen the gap, maybe in the short term, making it more clear what the disciplinary actions are and sticking to that for every student would be more effective than continuing to let people use discretion in a system that has not been fair disciplinary, right? Just based on
015the numbers. Um, and I don't know how other people feel about this and I don't know if that is a question per se, but it is just my thought when I look at these things. And um, what comes to mind, and don't quote me because I don't remember what administration it was. I was a baby when this administration was around, but one of our federal administrations at one point, we did not see a single increase in crime, but the number of incarcerated black and Hispanic men doubled. So I'm always concerned when I see these numbers increase, but I see incidents go down because we are widening the gap of the inequity and I'm concerned with it being fair for our students. So I don't know how to do this without being overbearing but still allow
016space for there to be a degree of fairness. Um, and I don't feel that this school district or many school districts are really in a place that our discretion is credible if we are in a space where we still have a disparity. >> Oh, I I think I need to >> and restorative justice circles I think are more effective when we involve the community because what that allows is the village aspect and it allows these kids to be accountable to more than just our educators. And I will say that I know several individuals that participate and when the when the grassroot organizations are involved, we tend not to see the students come back with the issues. >> Superintendent. >> Um uh thank you Dr. Whitehorn. I think it's really important especially since I uh the
017first slide injected the point about discretion. Discretion is in the level two infractions which are beyond the classroom uh but um not suspensions. We have very little discretion for suspension and I agree with you. We need less of it and so well I'm actually in agreement we've been heading there over the last several years and so I want there to be crystal clarity on the criteria for suspension and a very strong uh uh emphasis on creating spaces in which events do not happen that lead to suspension even being on the table. But when it happens, we we don't want discretion. Um, so I'm and and we were just meeting about this last week. We have some work to do there, but we have gotten a lot. So if my lack of clarity in discretion for
018an incident that is not something a teacher handles on their own in the classroom, but that does not add to suspension. But when suspension is at play, uh, uh, I agree with you. I think it's very helpful to have board members making that point. Um, we also are not saying to our administrators, and when I got to Rochester, I heard this frequently, can I suspend? I heard because I don't know if I can suspend. Can I suspend? And the district was coming out of a a period that was very different. And and this board obviously you are not yet on the board. We we talked about at the board level and talked about it. The answer was yes, but you need to be doing it with crystal clarity on clear criteria and we want our
019kids in school. Um, so this has been a journey. I I appreciate the urgency you attached to it and um I really want to be uh clear about that and as we were talking about this and planning this presentation, we do have some work to continue to tighten the criteria for suspension. Um there there are different types of suspension and different ways to bring a kid back in, but that level of uh discretion that removes kids from learning for very different reasons is highly problematic. I would I would agree with you on that point, >> Dr. Cook. >> Um, this this is this is not going to build off the um discussion that we've had so far, but I I did have some thoughts on the um on the presentation here. I whenever we uh
020get around to this time of year and we're talking about the level two referrals and and so forth, I I find this to be among the the most humbling aspects of running a school district. Certainly, um I I think the most sophisticated clinical aspect of managing a classroom is managing the behaviors in the classroom. I I can't even get my head around how to begin on that. Um, and the the part that I that I struggle with is what what should the board be I I understand that it's important that we review this data and that it is um certainly relevant, but what would a good number of referrals be? Because certainly we we we should have high expectations for our students. I think that's part of how we honor them and we want to
021provide them with a environment that is conducive to learning and that is safe for everyone. Um, and we also, I know this board certainly, um, puts students at the very center of every decision that we make. And we recognize that even the students that received a level two referral for whatever incident that occurred, they are this community's future as well. And we absolutely want them to um, you know, recover from that incident and thrive and and find their passions. But like there's a whole lot of and I I think this is to the extent I'm building off of anything. There is a whole lot of professional judgment and discretion in how to use these tools in order to bring about that productive learning environment that's safe for everyone. Is there such a thing as a
022best practice like this number of referrals per enrollment or and and obviously you know depending on the schools the what conditions create a level two referral at um the Phoenix Academy is I'm sure very different from Willow Creek and and so on but like what I don't know I guess that's my first question how should we be interpreting this data relative to a good environment for learning >> I can't say the should be zero because that's not going to happen. >> Um I think I'm a good person, but I got a speeding ticket this week. >> True confessions. >> I made a mistake. I got a speeding ticket. So people are going to make mistakes. Um what I do think we we need to look at is the chart you're looking at right now. Um
023your numbers should be similar to what your demographics are. I think that's what the best practice piece should be. There isn't a number that if you've got 17,000 students, you should have 10,000 referrals. No, but it's more about where your demographics are in comparison to how many referrals you have. That's the piece. And so there's not the gap within that. >> I think one thing I would add too is and I agree with what you said. I mean, we don't we don't ever expect a 100% of our kids to be on grade level. It it's a great um that's a great goal, but I don't know that that's realistic. I also don't think it's realistic that all of our kids will meet all of the behavior expectations all the time. I but I do think
024that the idea with the C um behavior specialists that we're bringing in is to look at what are the system level things that we need to be doing differently so that we're really clear about our expectations and we're putting in systems in classrooms and in buildings to help students um make better decisions or understand expectations more clearly um and also help teachers be equipped with how they might respond differently to correct behavior in the classroom so it doesn't lead to excluding kids from the classroom. So, I think the idea is um the n I think the seven and a half percent like if you asked me what the best practice is, I I actually don't know that um there's a really clear answer to that. I don't know that there's a target percentage. Actually, when
025we were talking about the number earlier, I got to thinking like what are all the other schools in um in the Big Nine? Like what percentage do they look at and how does this compare to other districts because we don't often compare our behavior data to other districts because it's not apples to apples. But I think that there's always room for improvement. And I think that the way that we need I think that we're happy that we've seen the decreases that we have, but I think we still have work to do at our system level um from the building level and from the classroom level. And that's just to put the support in place to help continuing to support the adults that are working with our students. >> Superintendent. >> Um I'll try to be
026brief, but I realize that a number of times this cease acronym has come up and I saw a couple board members said, "What is cease?" This actually is I'm not just going to take a second to explain the alphabet soup of it, but this is an important shift in how we're coming at this issue. Coordinated early intervention services is a funding stream that many school districts have access to. It involves federal and state funding for special education services. And the basic idea is to avoid having kids identify as a disability. And you have to uh write a plan and get approved. Rochester public schools used to pay for our entire middle school right fit with our cease dollars. We paid for one whole program with those dollars. When we created this board created our middle
027school ALC, we completely changed that which I believe filled a huge gap in our district for an alternative programming for middle school. We were also taking a relatively small but not insignificant amount of money and serving it essentially to run one program for a very limited number of kids. If your goal is to have the kind of systematic change that I think underlies Director Whitehorn's question, that is not going to change the whole system. We were spending all of these dollars on one small program. We now have hired three very I was thrilled at the people we've gotten for this job and you'll meet them. uh when they start in August um at some point we've hired three people with professional and personal expertise in behavior systems. How do you teach in ways that lessen
028behavior uh problematic behaviors in the classroom? How do you create positive systems within schools? And how do you deal with the mental health challenges? Those are the three uh experts that we're bringing in. they will be working with our school teams to put in place systems that address these issues. So, it really is taking that that those dollars in a way that if we do it right, which we're committed to do, is going to leverage these big issues, whereas we were previously focusing them all on a program that really served um I think middle school right fit was about 40 kids um that when I got here. So that's the kind of shift from system thinking to like a targeted like intervention for a limited number of kids and it was a wonderful program and
029of course many of those people are now bringing our middle school ALC to life but it's a very different uh different approach to how we're trying to come at these issues at the system level. >> I'll let Director Cook finish. >> Um thank you. So the and thank you for that superintendent. The the other uh question I had actually is about the cease thing um the new initiative because uh last year when we talked about this uh we talked a little bit about what the next steps or what's like the next level to get this work to in furtherance of creating um positive and productive learning environments and we talked a lot about the emphasis on student belonging and on deeper learning and how you know the theory of action it seemed to me um
030my armchair role here um literally in an armchair. Um was that by better identifying or better relating to students identities and helping them to uh see themselves reflected in their curriculum and um and you know be more involved, more engaged with their classroom studies that that would have a tendency to lead to less disruptive behaviors. I is that is that part of what has driven some of the changes? Is that still regarded as sort of the next steps or is this a little bit of a pivot to um but yeah >> well I would say going back to um my example that I shared about Dakota I feel like their um investment in restorative practice um and not just with students but their uh circle functionality within their staff I think has made a huge
031difference. I think the staff feel more connected and that they belong more and in turn they're more invested in what's happening in their classroom and kids feel more connected. So I think that that doesn't that doesn't go away. I mean that continues to be a significant component of the work that we have to do. And I think that's true K12 across the district across the nation that the more kids feel like they um belong and that they feel reflected in what's happening in their school uh the more they would align with uh expectations for behavior and expectations for academics and be more connected to the adults that can support them >> and that every school is different. Willow Creek took a very different approach but also saw dramatic improvements. Um and Dakota has seen some
032very exciting improvements too. So that's where you are going to have to meet the needs differently in those two schools and that's been measured across these indicators. We chose this year not to highlight individual schools as much. We did that last year. I think I got some feedback for reasons I reflected on a lot and I understood that in a board presentation to highlight one individual school where we can't have a dialogue with them here uh didn't tell a full story. Um, so that's part of why we're not like digging deep. We certainly could schedule a discussion with the leaders, staff, and maybe students from some of these schools if the board would like to dig in, for instance, to what's happening at Dakota or some of those other um sites. It was a little
033too comparative to do it like as we did, which was my idea. And I I thought, well, let's let's pivot a little bit more to look at the system because it's not uh they can't be here to tell that story and we can't dig deep enough into each school to really do it justice. >> And I would say I I'm using Dakota as an example, but there I mean we have buildings across the district that are doing great things in terms of how they create um more a greater sense of belonging and more safety for their students. And I think they do it through a variety of our different uh uh key initiatives. Um and some of that's restorative practice, some of that is deeper learning um creating that relevancy for kids. But Dakota was
034just the example, but we've got principles leading the charge on a lot of these things in their buildings and doing really great work to u make kids feel more connected. >> Dr. Workman, did you have >> No, I'm good. >> Dr. White, >> just um just I want to continue on with the cease conversation at the of that you did mention something about us being cited but not um >> not cited but uh a warning basically saying that there were some discrepancies in data. So they wanted to put it on our radar basically for us to be able to um consider possible solutions before we got to a point where it was a kind of a red flag for the state. And so >> here >> Yeah. Yes. And it is those were specifically the
035things um over referral uh for students for special education evaluation um at the middle school level and then exclusionary discipline for students of color specifically. So exactly to the point that you um that you highlighted for us. >> So So, I guess my my big question is if we are cited, what what does put you at a red flag? I guess my I guess when you give me numbers, I want to know like are we at a yellow light? Are is are we at the yellow light? It's about to turn red. Like, do we have the opportunity to run this light or >> I think that's I think that's part of the reason that they approved. >> I'm sorry. Um I think the idea is I would consider it maybe a yellow light like saying
036hey let's pay attention to what's happening right here. Um and I think that that was the reason that they were so um uh appreciative of the cease plan that uh that Jill Don and Connie Grims put together um to say here's a way for us to be able to address both of these components. Um, and it shows the state that we are serious about focusing on what those resolutions might be and how we might do better for our students of color specifically about exclusionary discipline and making sure that we're only referring kids that actually have disabilities and not that it's behavioral things happening within a building. >> So, did they give us a matrix on when it becomes red or is it just if it doesn't change or >> No. Uh, no. just that they
037continue to monitor it and they just want us to be aware that this was something that >> that we should have on our radar. >> And back to your earlier question, you know, we can celebrate that we had our data is going down, but there's a pit in all of our stomachs that we've talked about this slide right here. Yeah. >> So, I hope you didn't feel like we glossed over it because it's not something we're looking at because it hasn't changed. >> Um, and so we're still having to do that. we have to come up some ideas of do we have to look at at building specific um with how those numbers look and go that deep in that direction within that for for some of that pieces. So this is a very important
038piece to us as far as um yes things are going down but here we are still >> and I just want to say I'm aware that it's just out of school suspension but my thought is that the other ones probably are not too far off. I would assume that we're probably tracking similarly in other >> similar distributed. >> Okay. I just want >> Go ahead. >> I think too um the reason this conversation is so important is that you know we were focused on that the issue that the state cited we have been for the last several years. Our current strategic plan focused on level twos. The lesson here is that it's suspensions both in school which is the skip the the performance measures that this board approved last spring are in school suspension and
039out of school suspension. That is going to be one of the top six indicators for every school in the district. And we learned that the focus on level twos. The theory was kind of like what some people used to call the broken windows school of policing. If you are arresting people for broken windows, it will stop the murder rate. And in the criminal justice world, there's been a lot of analysis that said that was not solid science anyway. But the idea of level twos was if we focus on these level twos, suspensions will get better. We learned that's not necessarily the case. And that's why this learn sanctions that remove kids from learning will be right up there with our reading scores, our grad rates, our post-secary enrollment rates in this new system. And so
040we have a lot of work to do over the next year to build out the supports for that. But but we weren't focused on this goal the last really three years like we will be going forward thanks to the decision you made last spring to focus us and you're absolutely right it their inschool suspensions and out of school suspensions are co-equal in our new system. We we focused on out of school today but the inschool will be part of every presentation going forward. It was because of OCR. Go back way back when I had dark hair. It was OCR that we had with with that part and that's why we we focused on that was part of that goal. It just continued because the board wanted to compare apples to apples and if we changed
041it, it wasn't going to be that way. >> Director Mccclofflin, >> I just want to be clear for anyone who's looking at this that um Dr. Dr. Ruck, you mentioned when you were presenting that you really wanted slide 27 and 28 to be combined and I completely missed what you were talking about when you said that, but now I understand it. Um, that what we're talking about here is 27 is the data and 28 is the distribution of racial um and ethnicity across the district as a current state. >> That's correct. If we can work on how to get that onto one slide for next year, that would be great because I think that that's if you just look at 27, you don't understand the concept. >> Yeah, you have to use these slides side
042by side for sure. >> Right. And I'm worried that people are >> bars on there. It became so small, nobody's going to be able to read it. Okay, we can work on that. >> If we can work on that, that would be helpful. Um, the other question I have is that um I love the idea of the behavioral specialists and working on the behavioral systems and I'm excited to meet them. Can you tell us a little bit about their backgrounds? Are they educators? Are they something else? Are they a combination? >> I haven't met two of the three, so maybe I'll give one of whom I know well, but I looked at all of their um VA and I was thrilled at at at who we got. So, >> right. So, uh the person who
043will be focusing on um the engagement is a stu a person who has been working at Mayo Clinic as a behavior analyst working specifically in adolescent medicine and she has a she's a board certified behavior analyst. Um the person who's working on the mental health piece of this is somebody who's been working for over 20 years as a social worker um in an area district and has been working with um observations in classrooms and helping teachers and intervention teams try to identify like what are themes that they're seeing and how they help teachers enhance their practice um when they're seeing a theme of mental health concerns. um and then also worked at the building level um on a building leadership team doing the same type of thing but specifically at the middle school level. And
044then the last person is somebody in district who's been a great instructional leader um who has a reputation for outstanding uh relationships with kids along with excellent instructional practice. So I think the three of them together will be really dynamic and we're really excited to have get them on board. We actually set the criteria for what we wanted for these candidates and uh Connie Crimsroo and Jill Dunn and I met with Mona and Jackie and we were like well this is I mean this is a high ask these are high bars and we found candidates that uh exceeded our expectations for each of the three positions. So um it's really exciting to see the expertise that we'll have on this team >> and so just understand they're going to have a little bit different roles
045because of their different backgrounds but they'll be all working together on the same Got it. and we're going to locate them in a middle school so that they are um embedded in a school, but they will be able to start their work with all of our middle schools and then expand from there if we see hotspots or if we're feeling like they have the capacity. We just felt like saying here's the district uh was maybe too big to start and so we'll start focusing at the middle school level based on the warnings that we received about our middle school referral rate. >> Wonderful. Thank you. So um in all the years that we've been talking about this discipline data, I think we've talked multiple times about what data should we be looking at and what
046formats. And when I look at the out of school suspensions and every time we break the data down by race and ethnicity, that's all we know about these kids. All we know is is what their race and ethnicity. So, I wonder if going forward as we think about the implementation of these new strategies, if there's a way to present information that tells us more about these kids that isn't just about their race and ethnicity. I think about the perspectives project and how it really had conversations with the kids who were affected by this kind of discipline and we heard about the kids but then we also heard about the interventions that were being applied. Um, and I think that might help us to understand going forward if these are the right interventions to change the
047numbers because even if the numbers change, I'd want to know what did you what did you do that worked and if the numbers don't change, why didn't what we tried didn't work. Um, so that's just a along the lines of director McLaclin's get it all on one page. What else what else can we know about these kids so that we understand how we're addressing their issues >> in terms of their uh is logged within the student information system. It can tell you anything about graphics or program participation status as and I almost answered one of the earlier questions with this and then I held back um but any of the students that are on those bar graphs are uh generally going to be have more than one category that might be associated with a risk
048of a behavior. Um whether it's special educ status we've already talked about or whether it's anything else we reduce lunch rate status students tend to get suspended at higher rates than students who are not looked at it but um so the the multitude of things that could be happening in a student's life that even just quantitatively we can tell is a story to be told like you said um like with the perspectives project there's individual each one as well. >> Anything else, board members? >> I do have one question. I'm thinking about different ways to look at this information, too. That >> I'm looking at slide 27. Um, is there a lot of variety of that based on the elementary, middle, and high school? Or is it pretty much looking like that across the board?
049>> Is 27, the one with the free graphs? Okay. >> No, there's not much difference between level. Uh, okay. It's all within pretty close to each other. >> It's one of the reasons I didn't break it out that way. >> Okay. That would be that would be good to note for us too, just so that we're not thinking that, you know, it's significantly different in any of those levels. >> Yeah, they're all pretty comparable in terms of the demographic. >> Director Cook, >> actually. Um, so one other thought for whatever this is worth, I guess we'll find out. I um we've talked a little bit about the the disparities in these um in this data relative to the district's population and and how that might relate to the discretion of people who are deciding on
050what is a level two, what is an out of school suspension and so forth. I I think that is absolutely an important area for the district to focus on. I'm also concerned to the extent that these consequences are symptoms of some unmet need of some of our students. And I think in most cases that is probably a fair way to characterize uh these consequences. What does that say about our ability to meet the needs of our students um across the racial identities uh racial and ethnic identities of our student population? And so I I I don't know if I have a question or a or a comment or whatever, but I just I I I from my perspective, the mission is to meet the needs of these students and to to help them to uh
051um participate in our school communities and help them to be, you know, productive learning environments. Um, and the the goal, I hope, is to meet their needs in a way where they're not exhibiting the behaviors that result in the consequence, right? Like getting one level ahead. And maybe that's part of where the cease work takes us. Maybe that's part of what the focus on belonging and identity and so forth eventually gets us to. But I just Yeah, this is this is tough. I I don't I don't know that I I have a conclusion. So anyway, that's that's my perspective. >> Thank you. >> Thanks very much. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Our next item is a prep for action item, the girls hockey cooperative, and we're scheduled to take action on this at the
052August 5th meeting. Superintendent Pette. >> Thank you very much. I want to recognize Dan Christopher, our activities director at Mayo High School, who's going to come up and Dan is going to give board members an overview of a proposal. Um, we know that we really, really value extracurricular activities in Rochester public schools. And sometimes, uh, the number of students who choose to participate in an activity creates a challenge for us in fielding a team. And in those instances, Minnesota State High School League uh rules do give us the opportunity to form cooperative agreements that combine schools uh onto teams. Um we are at that moment with girls hockey. And so we're bringing you a proposal to create a co-op. Um I just want to say before I turn it over to Dan that I have
053met over the last several years with uh parents and members of the girls hockey um community as Dan will describe. We did and I did investigate a co-op that stretches across all three of our high schools, Century, John, Marshall, and Mayo for reasons I also understand. The conference of which we are apart said that does not meet the criteria for co-op. But I want the parents for whom that was the preferred solution to know we really did pursue that. We also cannot be an athletic conference unto ourselves. And so, uh, for reasons I understand, uh, our fellow members of the Big Nine, uh, athletic conference concluded that a co-op of our three high schools would not meet the criteria for co-op could be essentially anti-competitive. Um, but we did investigate that authentically. Um, and it's
054important for those uh, folks and they're uh, passionate about girls and hockey in our community. It's important for them to know that we really did explore that possibility. So now we're gonna bring you a different recommendation. So Dan, thank you. >> Yeah. All right. Okay. Uh just starting with um uh the numbers from last year. Last year we had uh 16 players. Three of them were uh goalies. Uh we graduated uh six seniors. Uh anticipated numbers for this year. We'll have 13 players. Uh two of them uh being goalies. Uh minimally we would need about 11 or 12 skaters. So we're at that low numbers. Uh so we're at that kind of bare bones uh so to speak uh numbers to to be able to participate. And when you get injuries, illnesses, unfortunately sometimes violations
055uh etc. you get to that point where you have to postpone a game and and obviously we don't want to uh to to go down to that route. Uh and we were at that point last year and unfortunat fortunately last year uh we got to the point where we did not have to postpone any games. We we had a successful season. Uh we do have a brighter future coming forward with participation numbers. Eighth grade uh got five players coming up. Seventh grade 8 to nine. Sixth grade six players. Fifth grade seven eight players. So we've got numbers uh coming through the the pipeline. One of the I I guess fun parts of of my position is um evaluating our teams and our programs and uh with our girls hockey program. Um we have a new
056coach uh Marcel Black that uh took over this last year and I think really did a wonderful job. Um the culture has really changed with things and really um inspired. uh they're really getting into the youth uh system and I really think um within this program um it's it's it's moving upward. Um this team uh overachieved last year. Uh as um uh superintendent uh uh alluded to, we did propose to the Big Nine uh conference and our region as well a potential co-op between all three schools. There's currently a JM and a Century co-op. It was unanimously denied uh with with us abstaining from that vote. Uh the recommendation was for Mayo High School to co-op with the surrounding communities and uh continue to provide two programs um in the city of Rochester. Uh the
057co-op proposal for for Mayo High School girls hockey uh we'd like to uh form a co-op partnership with the following schools, Dover Yoda and Lurard High School. Um the addition of these two high schools would would provide stability and part participation numbers uh with projected three to five players annually. Um so this would be with with both those two schools. So we'd get probably three to five kids from both those schools uh each year which would give us um a healthy number of players um to be able to play with um and hopefully not be able to obviously be able to postpone those games and have a good varsity team. Uh this was verbally accepted by both of of those two ads. Um they are excited for this potential partnership. Um obviously they would need
058schoolboard approval as well yet and then this would need obviously if this was approved to go to um the big nine and the region uh approvals as well. Uh, one thing that is um being um a lot more apparent uh across uh co-ops now is um sharing the cost with co-op uh other co-ops. Uh so kind of a cost broken down per student that I I like to share is the coach's salary uh plus transportation plus the officials, the casual workers minus that revenue. So that revenue would be the gate plus that sports fee divide that by the number of of participating. So in this case I kind of took like approximately 18 players. Okay. So in this case it would come out to uh this would be an approximation but this would be uh
059roughly about $1,000 um plus that 295 which is the the two the sport fee for for girls hockey. Okay. So the proposed financials for this, the co-op students would share the cost of running the sport. Um the fee would be assessed to to do Yoda and Lurus. Um and it would be their decision whether to pass these costs, you know, down to that that individual families and um they're aware of of these proposed financials as well. >> All right. Uh thanks for your your time and consideration. Um questions. >> You'd be splitting the 12295 a student. Is that the number you guys may give us that number? That's what split between the three schools. >> No. So this would go toward this would go back to the the district. Yep. >> Yep. >> And that
060would be the cost for each student participating in the co-op whether they were from Rochester or from Ryota. >> Yep. So what what would happen is is that $295 would be no matter what that would be the the sport fee that every student pays right that $1,000 would be build to say let's do the over so let's say dota has three players I would send a bill to doota for $3,000 okay that $3,000 comes back and it goes to Rochester public schools and that cost or that that money goes into our our general fund that help helps helps pay for like our transportation, our officials and everything that we pay for >> and then do or Lord can decide if they want to then charge their players for that $1,000. >> Correct. >> Dr. Moffr,
061um I'm curious, where are these students playing now? The Doy Yota and the Lords, do they have teams or >> they do not have a home? >> So, but they have players. Is that what you're saying? do have players that have come up through the youth system and they do not they do not currently have a home. >> So would they be incoming freshman then or how how do they get integrated? >> Um some of them just do not play right now or some of them would be incoming freshman or they play just wreck league stuff. But yes, >> and that kind of relates to my question is that how what's the confidence level that they're they would join the team? >> Pretty high. >> How how did you assess that? Um well, how would
062I assess that? So, I would assess that by their uh their ad has as um reached out to some of their community and said how many players would would potentially um play and those players said yes, we would we would participate. >> So, thank you. >> All right, this will be back for action at our next meeting. Thank you very much. Did you have >> Yeah, I I'm I'm struggling with the math here. So, on the second bullet point under cost structure per student, it's $1,23 per student, >> but you're charging $1,000 per student. >> That was that was the estimation. Yep. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> So, I mean, will there be an exact amount once the number of >> parents? Yep. That was that that's just kind of an estimation on kind of
063where where it would lie. So, in the in the agreement with um the other two schools, um is that number set ahead of time, that fee? >> No. >> And then >> No. So, what what it would be is I would what what it would end up being is is I would put the the coach's salary transportation. Once we find out what the actual uh numbers are or number of players are, >> then I would give them okay, this is what the the the actual feed number is. >> So that that number could be more than could be lower. Yep. Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> That helps. >> Yep. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thanks. Our next prep for action item is the approval of the long-term facilities maintenance plan and we are
064scheduled to take action on this item at a special session prior to our study session on July 22nd. Superintendent. >> Thank you uh Chair Nathan uh in in part of my effort to find an obscure research study that I can connect to any subject. Uh before I turn over to John, I want to briefly highlight the findings of a working paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research that looked at the connections between investments in facilities paid for by bonding, of course, done by a bunch of economists and home prices and test scores. So my my eyes went way up. This is by someone at Yale, the Public Policy Institute of California, and the Institute for International Economic Studies in Stockholm. So, what they found was spending on basic infrastructure such as HVAC, which we're
065going to hear about tonight, spending on your heating and air, or on the removal of pollutants raises test scores, but not housing prices. Conversely, spending on athletics facilities raises house prices, but not test scores. Socioeconomically disadvantaged districts benefit more from capital outlays, even conditioning on project type and existing capital stock, how your buildings are. Our estimates suggest that closing the spending gap between high and low soioeconomic districts and targeting spending towards high impact projects may close as much as 25% of the observed achievement gap between high and low poverty school districts. >> There you go. >> A provocative paper that only I probably read, but um it shows that what we do with our buildings really matters. Um, and the the Winston Churchill quote that I used at every one of our opening new schools
066my first year was we shape our buildings and then our buildings shape us. So, John and the team do a great job with keeping our facilities up to date and the board needs to approve this plan before the end of the month. So, I'll turn it over to John. >> All right. Thank you, Superintendent Pel and Chair Nathan. So, at our very last schoolboard meeting, you approved the 2526 school year budget, and we are here kicking off the start of the 2627 school year budget with the long-term facility maintenance plan because your approval of this plan then sets into motion the property tax levy for payable 2026, which of course feeds into our next year budget. So, uh yeah, here we are. We're talking about uh the long-term facility maintenance plan. It's a 10-year plan
067that we update annually. Uh, I wanted to just briefly remind you that the LTFM or long-term facility maintenance means these funds are not for new construction. They're not just for general remodeling. They're not for leasing space or doing energy efficiency project. They're really to take care of the um eroding assets that we already have and to restore them to like new conditions. So, that's a phrase we use quite often. Is this a like for-like project? For example, if we were working in this room, at the end of the day, this still needs to be a schoolboard meeting room. When we go to work at Mayo High School, we are working on projects um that are going to uh replace plumbing, heating, cooling, floors, uh do painting, ceilings, all that kind of the roof, parking lots,
068all that kind of stuff. But at the very end of the day, it's going to be the same. Mayo High School, it's going to be shaped the same. Classroom layouts are going to be the same. This is not for uh changing the footprint of May High School. It's for restoring it back to a like new condition. If that were not the case, we would not have authority for to use the funds. We would need to go to voter approved uh referendum uh to do that to um construct a new school or to change uh it significantly. Um funding for LTFM comes >> Are you thinking the slides? >> Nope. I have nothing to present on a slide today. >> Thanks. Just want to be sure. >> Yep. Uh LTFM comes from three funding sources. So,
069we have the annual pay as you go property tax levy. So, those are uh we we generally reserve that for our smaller projects are under $175,000. That's about um $6.5 million annually. We have some state aid just under a million that goes into the debt service fund to help pay u property or uh principal and interest costs that our property tax payers would otherwise pay. And then recently you just approved a bond sale of around $33 million and that's funding uh this the majority of the the big projects that are happening in the summers of 25 and 26. One thing that we try very hard one thing we try very hard to balance is uh the property tax rate along with keeping our buildings in good condition. So we have designed this plan to on
070different years go up and down based on the projects that are needed to be done as well as trying to keep those property taxes as flat um as possible. I just wanted to highlight I put this in the background information some of the big projects that are upcoming not necessarily this summer or next summer but they're within the 10-year plan and they are projects of significance. It's just kind of um interesting to share them with you and so that we can be looking towards the future. But Centry High School, for example, needs a new roof. That is going to be about a $7 million project. Uh John Adams Middle School needs additional parking lot replacement. John Marshall, even though we spent a lot of money there over the last few years, now it's time to
071address the roof there as well. Uh Phoenix Academy, we're going to be talking to you about that next week in a different uh uh study session about some updates that need to happen there. And then of course Mayo High School's been on the project plan for a number of years and that is just about fully designed and ready to be bid. And then Washington Elementary School needs windows, lockers, air conditioning, parking lot, roofs as well. So um don't need you to act on this tonight because we have this slotted for next week. In the uh uh board item, we have the attachments kind of laying out the projects and the estimated costs and the estimated summaries that they'll get worked on. Board members, any questions? Okay, I'll ask one. Um, playgrounds, where do they fit
072into this? >> Thank you for mentioning that. I was going to, uh, put those in my prepared remarks and I forgot. Playgrounds, uh, just a very small portion of that actually fits within the long-term facilities maintenance plan and that's actually the health and safety portion, which is the fall protection. So, what goes on the base, the rest of it, as you know, we successfully passed the 2024 operating referendum, and we um have carved out about $200,000 a year to do the other parts of the playground that don't fit within the health and safety budget. And so, this summer, uh Elton Hills was the first school that was up for that. I believe uh Washington comes next and we just we have a plan that we'll just keep going from there. And I remember a few
073years ago there was a comprehensive study of all of our facilities that really kind of established a new baseline for where they were. And I assume that's the study that you're updating each year. >> Yeah. So that's really uh that was a a point in time study. And so that does drive the kind of the timing of the projects although we have to move them around based on things that are failing more imminently than what might have been planned in that study. um it is about time to redo that and to reassess our capital planning and to uh maybe modernize to the the the program that we use to do the planning. So, we look forward to uh probably making that a key initiative. >> And I I think what you said about keeping um
074not just well reorganizing the projects and timing the projects so that the tax levy on our community stays the same. And I if anybody wants to be directed to it, there is a great chart that appears every time you present this to us um as one of the attachments and and it it does show um that it stays under a 15% um tax rate uh over third 30 years. >> Yeah. In 2049 and then 2050. There's a lot of wiggle room left there. Who knows what we'll be faced with at that point, but there would be a lowering of taxes if we don't have uh other needs at that point. >> I have one question. Uh and it's just a question that is put out there for um consideration as we are faced with um
075uh lower student a lower birth rate uh which will affect how many students we uh are able to serve. Um, I ran across the term enrollment and resource optimization as it relates to ideally being able to uh consider uh the realities of your enrollment as well as uh the investments in your facilities. Well, not yours but our facilities. And so I'm just curious uh is that part of anything that's being currently considered? I know these are with LTFM. Um, we have to plan based on need and I'm not asking you to suggest well what buildings we currently have that's part of our inventory or asset inventory may not at some point in the future due to whatever reason may not uh uh still remain there. But uh are we beginning a any discussion regarding that
076or and how might that or should that be a separate consideration from uh LTFM >> superintendent? >> Yeah, Dr. Barer, thank you. That is a about the best leadin to next week we could ever have had because that's precisely the discussion at the study session for next week. things that on the whole uh with a couple exceptions are not eligible to be funded through LTFM, but that are based significantly on our projected enrollment decline coupled with some aging buildings that we've decided it's not worth upgrading given that declining enrollment. I think we can see next week uh it's certainly a really important discussion next week. Um, I think it's likely to be the beginning rather than the end of a journey as we are going to need to continually think about the use of space
077tied to the number of students we're privileged to serve, tied to our uh bottom line financially. So, yeah, you'll hear a lot about enrollment and and program needs next week. >> Perfect. And just jumping ahead to the next item that will be on your action agenda. One of the things in there we're asking you to to commit to is setting aside $6 million for un um planned uh strategic uses that we need to maybe make some renovations to facilities that don't qualify for LTFM. And so we're asking in that item to set some money aside for those initiatives and those things that come up to so we can optimize the facilities with our enrollment. Thank you. >> All right, board members, we will revisit this at our special session at the July 22nd meeting. Our
078next item is an action item, the five-year budget reduction strategy. Uh the board had reviewed this item under prep for action at the June 17th meeting. And Superintendent Fuel, I believe you have something you want to share with us first. You know, I think uh Chair Nathan, I've already hit the point I was going to make and so in the effort not to be uh redundant, I will defer to you and we'll move forward. >> All right. Then I'll read the resolution and ask for a motion and second and if we need any discussion or questions, we can open the floor for that. Be it resolved that the school board of Independent School District 535 does hereby approve transferring 6.0 0 million from the unassigned general fund balance into a committed general fund balance for
079future facilities or technology upgrades for which no other dedicated funding source exists. And be it further resolved that the school board of independent school district 535 does hereby approve the use of up to three million of the district's unassigned general fund balance per year until the district's unassigned general fund balance is approximately 8% of total general fund expenditures. And be it further resolved that the school board of independent school district 535 directs the superintendent and administration to develop and present to the RPS school board budget proposals for the fiscal years 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029, and 2030 that implement reductions required to keep the school district budget in balance. >> Move approval. >> Second. >> It has been moved and seconded. Do we have any questions or discussion? Director. >> Yeah, I would like to discuss.
080I um I I think this is a decision that um either this board or a future board could easily be looking back on five years from now and wondering um was that the right call? Because there there's big implications here for what decisions are going to be available for a deliberative body in 2030 um or 2029. Um, and I've I'm of I'm I'm of two minds on this. And I I've really struggled with the second part of the resolution, the uh direction to spend $3 million a year from the unassigned fund balance in order to over the next five years bring the unassigned fund balance down to the policymandated minimum. And on the one hand, the the benefit is we're using um the resources we have available um to their fullest extent for the students
081that are in the district for the next five years and um sheltering them from any reductions that would result from only spending the amount of revenue that we have for the next, you know, each year. Um and so for the students in the district the next five years um that is probably the best thing for them. But the the cliff that that creates and the decisions that are available five years from now um it's almost like we're we're setting up that future board um that future administration for um almost certainly needing to run another referendum perhaps looking at a tech uh capital projects levy or or something else. um and barring that, the level of reductions that would be required um would be even more severe. Um so that that part really concerns me in
082terms of our our long-term planning. The other aspect that um I mean that's enough I guess but the the other the other part is we're in an environment where revenue for public education is as uncertain. It's always uncertain. That's sort of part of the game. But it is, you know, at the federal level, it's anybody's guess right now. Um I think given the forecast at the state level, um it would be prudent to assume that there would be delays in reimbursements from the state um and having some cushion, some working capital to work with in our district above and beyond the 8% um is I think prudent. I'm not really suggesting that we should change our policy. I know that's even been discussed in the past to have a a larger cushion than the 8%.
083And I I don't pretend that an extra $3 million is something that wouldn't have any ramifications, but I'm just I'm I'm having a really hard time supporting the idea that we're going to intentionally spend down the fund balance to the the policy minimum over the next five years. So, um, I'm I'm ready to support the first and third parts of the resolution. I just I'm I'm just not ready on the second one. Um, and I don't know that there's any additional information I need. I'm just I'm just really uncomfortable with making this decision and setting up a future board for what feels like uh tough circumstance. >> Yeah, sure. Um, I I really appreciate that point, Director Korea, and I don't mean to suggest, and I know you don't take it, that this resolution uh
084would not be a very substantive decision. However, the board's formal approval would happen each of those five years in approving the budget. So, these are these would be my marching orders uh for the next five years in terms of our broad financial strategy, which is also in the interest of transparency with our community letting us see this. Certainly, as we learn what is happening with, as you note, the very fluid state and federal funding picture for education enrollment in RPS, the board would, and certainly I would be in my recommendations to you, be making a decision each year. So, I don't mean to minimize this, but you would have the flexibility each year of this process to say, "Thank you for the budget that meets our charge. I think this uses too much fund balance,
085and I need you to bring me another one, two, or three million in cuts." because that's would be the alternative. It would be deeper cuts. Um these cuts are daunting already and so I know you know why I'm recommending that we go down to the minimum with fund balance. Um but um you would have as a board the opportunity each year in this process to direct me to do something different. But this gives me that longer term strategy that I do think will be helpful uh as we navigate the months ahead, years ahead. But I take your point for sure, >> Dr. Marvin. >> No, and you know the res director Cook, I I think you have a really valid concern that I think all of us share and the second part of the resolution
086does say approve the use of up to 3.0 um million. So, you know, as Dr. Pel said, um we can still decide each year. >> Dr. Um I would agree and I think the thing that I add to it where I looked at the slides is that where it sold it for me is that on slide four talking about the differences starting in fiscal year 27. Um if we if we don't do this it's even more ownorous. And I think if we're balancing those two things together, the short term and the long term, I think that the the up to three million gives us a good balance of how to um meet both of the needs for all of those populations. And for me, when I look at the magnitude of the budget reductions that
087would be needed um simply to meet the numbers um at the level that they're being projected at now, it's the largest ones I can remember in the 25 years that I've been a part of this district. So to not give the superintendent the flexibility to take some of that from the fund balance I think um I think would restrict the options we have and make it even more ownorous. And there were a number of years where we we were able to operate well under an 8% balance. We haven't always had this um level of fund balance above our policy. Um it's been prudent financial management and I think seriously looking at our expenditures every year that has been able to have us manage this cushion. So I appreciate highlighting the use of up to and
088your approach of knowing that we have that longer term issue in mind when you bring us the budgets every year. Anything else board members? If there is no further discussion, all in favor of the resolution say I. I. >> Opposed? >> Nay. >> The resolution has been approved. Our next action item is our math curriculum purchase. The board reviewed this item under prep for action at the June 17th meeting. Be it resolved that the school board of independent school district 535 does hereby approve the purchase of the everyday mathematics materials for grades kindergarten through 5 in the total amount of $489,811.90 in a multi-year order for the 2025 2026 and 2026 2027 school years. >> Move approval. >> Second. >> Thank you. There has been a motion and a second. Any questions or discussion hearing?
089None. And all those in favor of the resolution say I. >> I. Opposed. >> Resolution has been approved. >> 9.1. Other business. Our updated ABCD is in the agenda um that you can reference for future agenda meetings for our school board meetings. Um, and the upcoming agenda items are being displayed on the slide and include at the July 22nd meeting, as I mentioned, we have a special section, a special session at 5:30 where we will take action on the long-term facilities maintenance plan and then our study session will begin where we will hear about the facility strategy. We will have a monitoring item on our schoolboard self-evaluation for this past year and our goal development for next year. And then we'll have a closed session for the superintendent evaluation on the superintendent's leadership component. Then
090at our August 5th meeting, we'll have a graduation rate analysis and overview of the nth grade on track initiative, staff development plan and budget review. We'll have a report on our uh close session on the superintendent evaluation for the leadership component. Then we'll have action on the girls hockey co-op approval of the 2025 2026 student handbook. And then we'll have an additional close session on the superintendent evaluation part two of his leadership component. Any items board members would like to raise for consideration for our future meeting agenda? Hearing none, you heard about our July 22nd meeting at 5:30. Our August 5th meeting actually starts at 4:00 and will only run to six o'clock because of National Night Out. Then on August 12th, we have a retreat and that start time is at 6 PM. And
091on August 19th, we have a regular meeting at 5:30 p.m. And hearing no additional business, this meeting is adjourned. Oh, no. I am sorry. We are not adjourned. Have a close session. Um, our next item on the agenda is a close session. The next item uh is a close session pursuant to Minnesota statute section 1305, subdivision 3B, which allows the board to go into close session pursuant to labor negotiation strategy. The close session will be convened immediately following passage of the motion in the Edison building main floor conference room. Pursuant to the law I have cited, will someone make a motion to go into close session? So move >> second. >> It has been moved and seconded to go into close session. All those in favor say I. >> I. Any opposed? The board moves
092into close session at 7:26 p.m. Hold that one. The board has returned to the regular meeting at 8:20 p.m. Clerk. Marvin, will you please read the list of people present in the closed session? Those present were board members Kathy Nathan, Julie Workman, Stephanie Whitehorn, Karen Mclofflin, Don Barlo, Justin Cook, and Jane Marvin, HR Director Carl Bachan, Chief Administrative Officer John Carlson, and Superintendent Kent Pel. >> And hearing no other business, this meeting is adjourned at 8:21 p.m.