November 13, 2025 School Board Work Session

001this session, but we do have discussion and we do have an agenda. So, the primary thing on our agenda today is a budget discussion and I'm going to turn this over to Superintendent Grant um for the few items we have listed under that discussion. >> Okay, first of all, um we do have results back from the um survey we did with community residents. Can we talk about that? >> Yeah, that's what we're going to do. >> No, let's talk about the survey. >> Yeah. >> So, it's not scientific. >> No, I don't think we should probably scientific. >> Well, we probably shouldn't be releasing the results cuz you could take it 150 times if you wanted. Talked to Ryan yesterday about it. We can't control it unless we were to pay. So, we could do

002another one if it makes you happy. But that one there is like you can I can just keep filling it out over and over and over and over and over and over and over. >> What What difference does that make? What do you mean? >> Well, that's just a a pulse of what we get from the community. It's not scientific or anything. >> Well, and maybe we go back to So, the purpose of [clears throat] the actual survey was not a decision making mechanism. It was to take to take the temperature of the community to understand um what's important to them, what's on their mind, what they're thinking about so that we know going forward where we're going to have to provide clarity, where we're going to run into difficulties, those kinds of things to

003just understand what we're getting into when those decisions are made. >> Did you take it? >> I did. I only took it once, though. >> Me, too. I didn't take it again. But then people started calling me asking me [laughter] about it and then the letter started flying and it's like I couldn't find I don't know how do you put those things in order. Do you want re re uh reliable transportation? Oh yeah. Do you want safe buildings? Yep. You want high quality teachers? Yep. I mean who do you put what do you put first? That's silly. >> It's they're all first. I know >> Peter Leman would not be proud of us. I don't think >> but I know we just borrowed it >> from some other school district. So whatever. >> So I

004mean take it with a grain of salt. Take it for what it's worth. It's not scientific, but it does provide us some insight to how the community is feeling about the topics we put in front of them, >> which I think is more than what we had coming in. >> Did you copies >> Okay. Can we go? You want to go through it or not? >> I don't. But if you want to go ahead. Well, I think you're just going to confuse people. We're not If we're not going to use it and we don't think it's quality data, then I don't know what the purposes. But we can do it. It's fine with me. We're here, so we got to do something. >> I think it'd be great to know the the highlights. Anything that

005concerns you, anything that >> um gives you pause, or anything that validates >> thinking, those sorts of things. >> Fair. I well I think it's uh important to uh to give the results to hear the results. You know all of us board members I'm assuming receive some comments some emails some letters or calls or whatever saying that there were flaws with the survey and um you know they they pointed them out and they're and they're I think they're right on with the flaws. For example, it pits different areas of academics or non-academics or whatever against each other. um transportation against uh uh academics just like DJ had mentioned. But I think I think it's important to there are some flaws but I think it's important to go ahead and you and at least review the

006survey. Any other comments before I get started then? Um we should have probably had a slide for that. I don't know if do you want to see the slides or can I just read it to you? >> Just read it. >> Okay, that for me anyways. >> All right. >> Um, so the first question is, do you live within the Brandon public school boundaries? 91% are yes, 9% or no. The second question is, do you have children currently enrolled in the school district? And this one is probably really critical because we have a tendency to forget [clears throat] who is and who isn't really connected to the school district. So we have um if you have children in the school district that would be 57.8%. And those who do not is 42.2% with 1340 responses

007which is >> pretty good. pretty I mean usually I mean if it had probably been scientific it would have been one that Peter did that was about 7525 actually for those with out kids and those with um we have a question about which best describes your relationship to the school to the Brandon public schools 1340 responses um 45.4% 4% were parent guardian which was a number of 608. Student responses was 284 for 21.2. Staff member responses 175 for 13.1. Staff member and parent/guardian was 142 at 10.6%. Then community member with no children currently in the district 144 responses for 10.7%. Then we have [clears throat] which areas of the school district which areas of the school district's work do you value most and you rank it from most to least. So the high number one

008was a high quality classroom instruction 706 >> responses extracurricular activities 182 well-maintained and safe facilities 139 effective district administration and building leadership 126 reliable transportation services 124 and access to modern technology for students and staff 63. So, so did so those numbers mean a six is adds up to 700 and the last one was just ones, right? Is that what you're saying basically? >> Yeah. Gotcha. [clears throat] >> In your opinion, which of the following should the district prioritize for funding purposes? And you rank from most important to least important. Academic programs and classroom instruction was 746. Arts and the music programs was 134. Student support services 118 athletic programs and extracurricular activities 102 bus routes and transportation services 86 career and technical education program 65 technical and digital tools investment 50 and facilities and

009infrastructure 40. So again, it kind of re um supports the idea that it's all about what goes on in the classroom. >> Oh, Peter, [clears throat] does that mean that 40 picked um the kind of the the buildings and grounds as their number one? >> No, the least important. >> The least important. Okay. >> you know, you could go like 6 5 4 3 2 1 >> and they just total them all up. >> Got it. So, so the one that got 700 at the most sixes obviously. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> So, and you know >> tell us how many people [clears throat] did what. But >> you may say how come facilities and infrastructure is so low. Well, >> we have fairly new stuff. >> We just spend a bunch of that only

010makes sense that it would be that way. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, that was the, you know, to get a pulse of where the community is at. Um, is it scientific? No. Does it help us? I think a little bit does only for the fact that [clears throat] we know that the emphasis is how are we going to be able to protect the classroom from and it's not something we don't know, but at least we know that it um ranks very high with the survey that we took for those who answered the survey. >> That's why we exist. That's why we exist [clears throat] is to teach >> and that should be the most important thing. [clears throat] >> So I don't know any other comments or questions on that. [clears throat] >> So

011the 1,340 responses is the total responses of the survey so far. >> Correct. >> Is the survey done now? >> 21st. So this is just a snapshot of where we are on the 13th. >> Any other comments? So we could so so uh can we as board members get copies of those result hard copies of those results or email to us the results or should it or should we wait until uh the deadline of the 21st? >> I think you should >> I would recommend you wait just I mean you got another week of responses to come. >> Okay. [clears throat] Eventually we will see the we will see the results though the uh hard copy email. >> Yep. >> Okay. Okay. The next one is egg um testing. Carrie, do you want to speak

012to this for the board? Why does it feel like a longer walk when session? [laughter] >> Um, uh, members of the board, Superintendent Grant, I, uh, just wanted to give you an update. We have uh I'll combine this with our admin updates in terms of um the work that we've been doing on the budget items that we talked about at the last meeting where you voted on um your yes, no, and your maybe stances. Our team has been working on uh digging deeper into timelines and processes and data for all of those items. And one of the items that is very very timely is talking about kindergarten testing in AGOT. If we are going to um talk more about potentially pausing first grade EGOT for next year, we need to get some um input and

013direction from you sooner rather than later because testing starts in kindergarten uh in just a few weeks. The recommendation that we are bringing forward is to pause kindergarten testing for this year so that we have time to do an adequate study of what we can uh feasibly do to align our AGOT programming to best practices and to provide the outcomes that we desire for students. We have not looked at our AGOT programming since 2017. So, it is time for us to be doing that. But in order to save staff time and to save money and to give us some latitude for uh investigating that program and making it a high quality program going forward, um we wanted to bring forward this idea of pausing kindergarten testing. We do kindergarten testing in September or excuse me

014December, January and March in kindergarten to place students in first grade AGOT. So we're we're kind of uh have a sense of urgency about this particular item. We can come back and talk more about other [clears throat] items that we've been working on, but we pulled this one out for specific conversation and guidance. This is districtwide testing. >> Correct. >> Well, I do see on the uh sheet that we've been given by from Marcy um to uh redesign the AGOT program and we've talked about this as a board. We redesign it uh so that uh each building would have some AGOT programming going on. Uh it looked like there was about a $312,000 savings on that. Does that is that still correct? >> Uh that is a ballpark figure at this point. Director Ward, we

015have not investigated redesigning anything beyond first grade at this point or or what would be the value added or programmatic determinations um of keeping students in their home school for egg programming. At this point, we would recommend continuing AGOT programming in second, third, and fourth grade at Lowel for next year. Just pausing on first grade. >> Okay. Thank you. >> What kind of money are we talking? >> About 70,000. >> That' be the one teacher then, right? >> Um the teacher and the testing. >> Okay. >> Yep. And then we would actually move that testing to fourth grade and do screening for all fourth grade students in in addition to current AGOT students. Um and um preparing for any changes in identification for students going into Forest View and how we identify students for accelerated

016classes in Forest View going forward as well. So it's kind of a multi-tered approach. um our window would not go to waste. We would just shift it to fourth grade. We don't currently have the practice of screening all fourth graders that go to Forest View. Um so we could still take advantage of the testing window. It just wouldn't be for first grade. >> Yeah. >> What's the big deal about the testing window? Does someone else do administer the test? >> Um it's paying an outside company to do the test or we buy the test. We buy the test, but the time that it takes to administer the test districtwide and analyze [clears throat] the results and communicate with parents that make decisions about where they want their students to go to school next fall is

017the sense of urgency. >> Oh, I get that part. I just was curious. >> Yep. >> Like we're not going to lose that testing. We're going to move it to fourth grade. So, I was like, >> well, >> figured we would >> and we could pause on fourth grade, too. But that if we wanted to >> take advantage of the opportunity to understand >> we we could go either way. >> Well, as I also look at the results that the board members turned in, there were, you know, to uh reduce the first date first grade a [clears throat] which we're talking about basically from the kindergarten testing. Um there were four yeses, one no and one maybe. >> Correct. Um so that to me that looked significant in um looking to at least redesign the

018AGOT and and uh and uh and holding testing on the kindergarten. Uh there four me four four four board members that uh said yes to that. >> So if you'd like to move forward, I would recommend somebody put it on the agenda for later this evening. Since this is a work session um and you're not um taking action at the work session, uh we're just proposing it here so you have time to um contemplate the possibilities and the implications and um as a consideration for followup for the votes that you did at our last meeting. >> So should we just hash it out right now? >> Well, that we should do. Sarah, >> now is the time? Yeah, we can discuss it right now. >> Well, I'm in No. I don't think it's enough money

019to get too excited about. I think it's a very important deal for 20 families, 20 families per grade. Um, I haven't seen what the other changes are going to be, so it's hard for me to make a decision on this one, but I understand you want to get one at a time, but if it was 700,000 be a little easier. I would just have to say this with this information that I have, I'd be a no, which is what it is at one vote. >> So, you were yes before. You're changing your vote. >> I wasn't yes on getting rid of K. >> Were you? Maybe. >> I don't know. No, he was a no. >> I never seen the lift. >> Was I a No. >> Where did you get that from? >> Where

020did they get this from? >> I know what it is. It's that Excel spreadsheet we filled out. >> Well, I didn't print it out when I was done with it. I just sent it back to you guys and I've never seen it come back again. >> You can click on that link and get back into it. >> Who sent it out? Did you send it out, Kelly? >> I think I sent it out. >> Oh, okay. Yep. I found it. Yep. No, as people as people filled it in, it just it just added to added them to the spreadsheet. >> Well, I'm glad you have it. It's kind of nice to have. >> It's a good little sheet. >> So, is that the >> So, I'm I'm kind of confused what >> Okay. >> Yeah.

021>> Um, so the testing that we're talking about >> is in kindergarten is to determine what children are eligible to go into the AGOT program. It is one of the criteria that we have. >> One of the criteria. Okay. And then >> the other testing I mean all all kids get tested >> correct in kindergarten >> for other things. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Um but if we I mean I'm not I'm in favor of keeping AGOT but I mean gosh if >> I'm 100% with you >> if we if we almost like we're cutting off >> we are >> theater programs. I >> I just want to be clear. We are not talking about getting rid of AGOT. >> No, I know you're talking about talking about the feeder program. How do we determine

022who's going to who's going to go into into egg then in second grade? >> That's what we're going to do for the next year. We're going to work with a um professor, his name is Dr. Scott J. Peters, who is an expert in this area um and the um gifted and talented expert from the Minnesota Department of Education. They will consult with us and help us redesign our program. We haven't looked at our program since 2017. >> What's that going to cost us? >> Doesn't cost us anything. >> I think we should look on redesigning it. I mean, it's eight years now since we're doing this. I'm not saying getting rid of it. I'm saying that's >> No, we're not we're not getting rid of it. >> I just wanted to understand the testing part.

023J Peters. >> Scott J. Peters. >> Look, Carrie, help help me understand. Okay. So one of our items was redesign AGOT program and we all weighed in on that but that is not for the next year. >> That would be for the year after. So we are not looking at really any >> savings by reducing a this year. >> Well it potentially could save Yeah, it could potentially save one FTE, >> right? >> But we haven't determined that yet until we have the opportunity to study it further. >> Okay. We don't have the opportunity to come with to you with a comprehensive redesign or a comprehensive proposal about first grade >> time that we have >> in the time that we have. So it either stays like it is or we pause for one year.

024>> Okay. >> Just only for next year >> just for first grade. Yep. >> I think this is >> Carrie. Is there a scenario where we do those things simultaneously while we keep the program running but we also study it at the same time and possibly but there would not be any budgetary savings at all to doing that if that's a consideration for for you and the board is um budget implications. There wouldn't be any savings to doing that. Um, and we would have then one more year before we see those results because we would have another year of students in the AGOT pipeline. >> Carrie, the research that I've done or that I've done myself shows that um we really shouldn't be testing kids for gifted programs until about second grade. Um, that that's

025the research that I've seen. Is that correct or not? uh that is more in the ballpark of current best practices uh director award um Dr. Wendy Barren would agree she's our expert at MDE this is Scott's area of expertise as well Dr. Peters uh and we have seen many of our school districts uh across the state go to a pro approach called talent development for early primary learners uh where students are not locked into a setting of an academic program early on. they have more opportunities for talent development in the areas of mathematics or science or art uh for the first couple years in elementary and then as they get into second grade and beyond, we provide more of that e academic acceleration um after we've had some time to give them time to develop

026and do um that ability testing. Kat testing is what we're talking about today. the ability testing in second grade. >> So, scientific research shows that um you know what we're talking about is absolutely the the the way we should be looking as as I interpret it or whatever. Um and it's no and to me it's no different than um you know trying to label a a kindergartener first grader um with some special ed needs which is is a difficult situation as well. Um so um you know based on that based on what you know um practice which what scientific research shows um I you know I think that we should take a pause here and and look at uh you know um testing out at kindergarten and first grade. >> I agree. I think if

027we reserve the right to get smarter and we've gotten smarter about this then we should act on it. Oh, at any rate, it to your point, it's definitely time for review. Eight years is a long time to not review program validity. So, it would give us time to do that. >> I do want to make it clear that I too, like the rest of my board colleagues, I support the the AGOT program. Um, it's just that uh we need to review it. >> Yeah, it's a great program. >> Yep. >> Agreed. Anything else you need from me? >> No. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thanks. Thanks. >> But we're going to continue with testing in kindergarten. >> I don't know what we're going to do. I don't know. Are we going to put it

028on the agenda for the meeting? >> Does it need to be on the agenda if >> Oh, yeah. We have to vote on it. >> But why do we have to vote on it? >> We're going to get rid of it. >> Oh, if we're going to get rid of it. >> But if we're just pausing on it. pause it. >> Does that require board action? >> Pausing it for a year. >> Yes. While we do this, >> do it. >> Just call it what you want. >> But it isn't it isn't cancelling? >> No, >> it's positive. >> We're not testing first graders is what we're saying. >> We're not going to have it in first grade. So then next year when we're broke, we're going to say we're going to add and bring

029it back. >> I don't I don't get it. What are we doing >> exactly? >> So in December they test the kindergarteners for >> Right. or first grade. So the proposal is to pause that for this year while we study um what best practices look like so that we can implement it next year. >> So we would not have first grade a get done next year. >> Yes. One year. >> Okay. >> No, I'm >> we're not getting rid of it. We're just going to review it. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> Do we need board action for that? Well, I think I think it would be valuable to have it on record. >> Okay. >> And that would be a save by pausing it. Are we saving 70,000? >> Okay. >> Right. >> Temporarily. >>

030Right. >> Got it. >> Permanently. >> That's what you're afraid of. Yeah. I guess >> you whatever you want. New car. >> I will. >> What if What if I lose? [laughter] Don't be scared. >> You're going to have to give me a car. Sometimes somebody gave me it. [laughter] >> Okay. >> So, I think we're all in agreement of pausing it. >> Yes. >> No, I'm not for sure. >> Okay. >> Well, there you go. That's all right. That's why we got elected. I don't want to all think the same. >> N All right. Thanks. >> I didn't I I just >> We could vote. >> I just didn't realize >> in these meetings if you want. Someone has to make a motion and second. >> Well, we're changing precedent then. >> Yeah. >>

031We're going to change it for every workshop. that you mean. >> I don't love that. >> You want to do it just for this? I don't think >> that's wise. Just my opinion. >> Okay. >> That's >> It's okay. It's okay. [laughter] >> All right. We've got >> Is that clear what we're going to do? >> We're going to, >> Madam Chair. >> Yes. >> So, um, we just do it with through an amended agenda. I mean that that would be the way to do it through amended agenda, not not take any official business here obviously or whatever, but um I'm assuming that I I didn't realize that we were uh um going to uh take this to a vote tonight. That's that's that's that's one of my concerns is that uh you know, we're

032moving from uh discussion purpose now to action purpose. But uh you know if if we want to do an action if we wanted to take the action I I I would agree with uh uh director heman that we do it through an amended agenda. >> Yeah. >> Just amend the agenda for the regular school board meeting tonight. >> Someone will make a motion on that when we get to the real meeting. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Good. >> Y >> Okay. Um demographic study. So, um, our executive team, we've been talking for a little bit about some concerns that happened in 2018 with a demographic study that was precoid and the um results of that was that it looked like we were going to get a significant number of students. That never happened. So, it's

033>> seven years later and we were thinking that as we make some decisions down the road of what we're going to do with taking care of our budget deficit problems, maybe it's time that we do another demographic study to look and see um is there definitely a continuation of a downward slide of school age population students in our district and maybe we can instead of having it sometimes, you know, they do a 10-year study so forth. we could just do a snapshot for five years because if indeed somewhere down the road whether it happens this year in a budget decision making plan or maybe a year from now or whatever if there's going to be the closure of a school an elementary school because of population we should really think about doing that with knowledge

034and not just a gut feeling and um Hazel Reinhardt is um state renowned demographer. I've called her twice and left her messages. But I think it would be good if we could get a snapshot of what the next five years are going to look like because really over the next five years as we make incremental decisions about the budget. It would be really critical to know how many students are we talking about because once once the smallest class comes in, whatever that's going to be, [clears throat] kindergarten, whatever year it's going to be, that's a 13-year process of them going through the entire system, which has a long ripple effect for the future of this district as far as what does revenue look like, what do expenditures look like, and how do we write size

035buildings in the district for a potential of a shrinking student enrollment. And if you want to make sound decisions based on what is hopefully factual or is close to being factual, this would be the time to do it to get a good picture of where things are going as opposed to where we think they are. And as we, you know, like this year alone, we're down 125 130 students. Is that going to be replicated next year in the following year? We don't know for sure. >> I just want to make sure that we everyone understands when you say we're down. We're talking about birth rate. >> We're talking about kindergarten. >> We're talking about birth rate. >> Kindergarten. >> No, we're talking about enrollment >> at >> which equates okay enrollment. But but we're not

036talking about is where people have entered the district and left and gone somewhere else. were talking about the fact that there's incoming which is somewhat based upon birth rate a little bit >> except that I understand what you're saying Peter but I just wanted to clarify that I wanted to make sure I understood what >> the critical point to all of that though is Randy the birth count that comes out of Coral Wing County doesn't necessarily mean they're coring county people >> understand >> because if you look at the area now >> where are the places that birthing is can be done >> right >> you know we're the only hospital around right now. So, >> well, and you've got Crosby and Peak Water and Crowing >> Staples, >> but we don't know if they're

037going to, but we need to know what county that they're in first of all, but more importantly, is that our district or is it >> right >> other districts that are using >> bottom line is we're 125 or 134, whatever it is, kindergarteners this year and that's going to be the ripple effect you're talking about, >> right? Correct. >> You know, for a long time. So if you wanted I think if the decision is to start making right-sized decisions for budgeting and so forth um instead of just looking at dollars and cents we should be looking at how many bodies are actually going to come into the future of this district and a fiveyear study would be I think adequate for now. Um, we're still on the, you know, we're still on the back side

038of CO, but it's not helping us and we we really, I think, need to know [clears throat] how much longer would this continue? >> Can the county not give us numbers, Peter, or would you rather use a recommend >> That doesn't mean that they're ours. >> Okay. Okay. >> And, um, Hazel Reinhardt, the the state uses her for everything. Should we come out of the county? Huh? >> I'm sure she's going to the county. >> Yeah, >> but she'll also do a digger deep about >> if they're born in Croing, that doesn't mean they're coming here though, >> right? >> Which we need to know. >> And it, you know, and then she'll use some census data and so forth. My recommendation is that we would see if she would do this for us and

039get it done so we have some good data to >> project what the future's going to look like at least for five years. Does she work for the state or is she have on her own? >> This is her business. >> So, it'd [clears throat] be interesting to know how much more it would cost for 10 years >> or if it's going to take twice as long, >> which is a cost at all. >> I don't know. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. >> She hasn't called it back yet. So, I don't suppose you know either. But, but you know, if it's oh, I can get five years down in three weeks and 10 years would take me three months. Well, then that makes an easy decision. But if it's like a little bit more

040money to get 10 years, [clears throat] we get when they do it, Peter, do they give you like here's my fiveyear projection and here's my 10 year projection or >> if we ask her, she'll do whatever we ask of her. >> It just takes like you just said though the longer the >> Yeah, we don't have that much time. >> Yeah, I'm with you. So I love >> and I am concerned about um you know we this is no secret about the size of some of our smaller elementarymentaries. Are those neighborhoods continuing to shrink? >> Or maybe not shrink. Maybe it's just people that are retirement age are moving into those neighborhoods >> and there aren't the kids running around. You know, it doesn't have to just be shrink >> because some of those homes

041um you know are not very big. >> Two bedroom maybe one bath. >> Maybe they've graduated kids have graduated too and they people have just stayed there. Yeah. >> You know, I mean, one thing for sure is that we we know what the we [clears throat] know what the size of the buildings are, right? Mhm. >> I wonder if in conjunction with that we do some sort of building study through an architecture firm or um I know other districts have done that where they've they've had someone come in and look at the buildings and see how we're serving students and see how we can better do that based on enrollment and not just okay this building you know enrollment's going down there and not just making decisions based on enrollment, but how those buildings are

042serving students and learning [snorts] now and into the future as enrollment goes down because I think we know what we know and it's probably not the best approach just to make decisions based on enrollment within that school. um because we could in fact redraw lines when when and wherever we want, >> but it's probably better to base that on how those buildings actually function and how they're working for students. >> Well, don't our staff know that now? >> Well, to some extent, but they're I would say they're probably not experts in buildings either. I know there are firms that do this on the regular and um make these recommendations of how you can use spaces or shift spaces um to be used differently and >> Okay. >> So, what I can do is continue to

043contact Hazel and get some information from her and then I can bring that to you and say here's what she's she will or will not do. >> Yeah, I think it's great. I mean, there are other places we could go if we wanted to do this and I don't know, maybe she's really busy, but um I would trust her before I trust anybody else. I guess >> you don't you know a lot more about it than we do because he person this was done a demographic study was in 2018 and it and it sounds like it was pretty flawed. Um um what makes the difference now between it not being flawed now? >> Well, my my >> and let me and let me also just say let me also just say I think the more

044data that we can get um whether it be architectural buildings or bodies or whatever uh the better we are going to be able to decide um and make some tough decisions because we got tough decisions. So I think the more information we can get is very important. I just want to make sure that we are um that we f you know that we do it correctly this time rather than have it flawed like it was in 18. I guess >> well I guess my response to that John would be um in [snorts] 2018 there was not a significant change in the number of births per household. >> Okay. >> And CO changed all of that. And the other thing that CO did though [clears throat] along with impacting the number of births per household um

045it encouraged parents to look at other considerations for education. Um homeschooling since then has exploded and um private schools have really exploded. Maybe not so much here but around the state in the metro area specifically. But then that 18-month two-year period of of uh interruption to a normal life, it did more than what people I think understand as far as impacted household incomes, impacted jobs. Um it impacted decisions of family of having children or not for right away or waiting. So um no one could have predicted that impact because everything would have been based on what we knew before. There was a there's a steady um average of births per household really for the previous 10 years or so. You know it fluctuated a little bit. Might have depended on the economy or might have

046depended on what um war we might have been fighting at the time and so forth. Um, but right now, um, we're just starting to figure out what did really happen over that 2-year period of time that is still impactful. >> Thank you. >> Who did the last survey? >> I was just wondering that. [clears throat] >> I think it was Hazel. >> Well, >> if I'm not mistaken. >> Yeah, >> it was Hazel. And I just want to make a correction. It was done in June of 2015. >> Okay. [snorts] And so that data was already three or four years old when we did blueprint 181. And so if you look, I can give you guys data. If you compare our enrollment, it actually was pretty close to what she was projecting. And then COVID

047hit. >> Okay. >> It and to your point of 10 years, DJ, I mean, it was done in 15 and the end was 2425. We haven't looked at that data for so I I think it changes so quickly. Five years maybe. would in my opinion be the best. But >> I could live with five years. I just thought if it wasn't much more money and didn't take much longer, >> why not get the 10? >> 10 years is a long time and a lot changes. >> Her data in 2015 was solid data. >> Well, it's so clo Yes. >> Um >> it was good data, but CO screwed everything up. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, she >> we just wanted to make sure because um we want to make sure we're using a reputable individual

048and if her data was good data. >> Yeah. So, in her report she has four trend lines. So, high kindergarten, [clears throat] high transition, um high kindergarten, low transition between grades, low kindergarten, low transition, and that. So, she has four trend lines and then it's up to the district to decide which one are we going to go with. So, it's it's very interesting data. >> So, when they did blueprint 181, they were using her data. >> They were using Yes. parts of her data. >> Parts of her data. >> Okay. The last time I worked with Hazel was in 2012 and um that was for Oatana and she was spot on. for seven years. It did exactly what she said. We, as Marcy alluded to, the different trend lines you can pick. We picked the

049moderate conservative because we didn't want to hope too much. She would she nailed it. >> What um trend mind did brainer pick? >> It [clears throat] was it was kind of right in the middle of all of them, I would say. >> Thank goodness they didn't pick the top one. >> Yeah. And that's water over D. But uh >> it's done. >> Well, good. I'm glad that uh you gave us that perspective. >> Yeah, because I it's come up before in previous boards of you know, can we how can we trust the data? >> Yeah, >> it it was it was old at that point. I mean, it was already three years old. So, >> yeah. Cool. >> Thanks, Marcy. Thank you. >> So, you think will call you back here pretty soon? I hope

050[laughter] so. I'll keep calling her. Maybe because I said my name, she doesn't want to talk to me. [laughter] >> Oh, damn Peter. >> I mean, if she's watching now, she's going to [laughter] We just spent a half hour talking about her. >> Cool. >> Um, okay. Uh, and I I am intrigued by the idea of having somebody study the buildings. I don't know that it's as urgent, but I think it would be good information for administration and for us. >> I'm assuming that that there'll be a a fee or a cost for that. Get an architectural firm involved. >> Yeah. And the the group that did did maybe um blueprint 181. I don't they may do it too. I don't know. But they would already know our buildings. So that >> and I know

051the the architect really well. >> Yeah. and he's retired. So maybe he'll give us a good deal. [laughter] >> I don't know. >> Who are you talking about? >> Huh? >> Who's the architect? >> Kevin Dy. >> Oh. >> Well, the deal is is um I'm quite certain we have CAD drawings of these buildings. So you can send it to somebody in California >> and they put it in their box and >> they don't even need to come. >> Let AI take care of it. >> I don't think they need a AI would help them, I bet. >> Yeah. But they all figure it out just by those drawings. They >> okay? >> They, you know, it's just like building a football stadium. You know, how to get the most seats in on the smallest

052space. They know what they're doing. >> I would think >> they'll figure it out. Got to put people in the seat. >> All right. [snorts] So, next up, we have administrative updates. >> So, I'm going to ask if um from the executive team, does anybody want to join in on this discussion? [laughter] like a loaded question. >> They all jump up for Charlie. [laughter] >> So, I do want you to know we've been working um often once we got the response sheet about yes, no, maybe. Um it's helped us understand some things that we should focus on more or not focus on at all. But we also have a couple things we want to provide for you that gives us a little bit more clarity because as we start to narrow down exactly what are

053we going to recommend to you? Um it really comes down to we don't want to waste time on something that's not going to be important and um we've got some things that we've talked about off that sheet that had the columns and the numbers and so forth and some suggestions from you thought well what about this what about that? So we have dug into those a little bit and we want to provide some information for you to think about and you know what our recommendation would be on those particular items. So is there a sheet of paper? Is there a >> So we were just going to give >> spreadsheet or >> we were just going to give a verbal update because we're still working on some of the numbers but um you guys have

054seen the spreadsheet before. So I'll just go over mine and I'll leave all the your stuff for later. Thank you. Boring. Um, so for example, selling the red house. Um, Jeff has reached out to uh, Close Converse to see if we can, excuse me, selling the school farm. Reached out to Close Converse to see what would it be that we could get potentially for that property. Um, we've taken our first steps on that. I reached out to Brad at Adina Realy about selling the red house and he's going to bring in a mover to see if we can even do that. like you know the lines. Can we even >> can it even be moved out of there? Is that even a possibility? >> Legal description you're talking about. >> So um those are kind

055of just ones that we've started, you know, no updates there. >> So do you want input? >> Sure. >> I think that that's just you got better things to worry about. That's that's we're we're knee-jerking. There's no reason to get panicky over this situation. We're not broke. We're fine. That's what do you we bought the school farm for $160,000. So if you got $160,000, what would that do for you? Not a lot. >> I don't want to share yet, but um so the previous administrator thought, you know, that that farm was of value. Um the current director doesn't think necessarily we need it. So we could sell the whole farm and the number that we got is substantially more as an estimate than what we paid for it. Well, you know the person that bought

056the other 40. >> Mhm. >> Or they paid >> 172, >> but it doesn't have a building on it. >> So, but it it's a as of right now, it could be a a nice chunk of money. [snorts] >> Well, just remember once you sell it's gone. >> Correct. And that's >> it's not making us any money right now. >> Nope. [clears throat] >> Is it costing us anything? >> Pardon? >> What does it cost us? Just taxes. Uh, >> nope. No, we we use it. They use it to work on like the snow plows and and lawnmowers and all that stuff. >> So, where would we move that maintenance? >> Has a spot. >> Yeah. >> Huh. >> They can do maintenance at Forest View. >> Jeff wants to have a place to put

057all that stuff. >> Here's a graveyard of old cars out there >> at Forest. >> So, both are on the table. Like, do we sell just 20 acres or do we sell the whole farm? So, I'm just throwing that [clears throat] out there that both are on the table. >> Okay. I just wouldn't get too spun out about that because it's not >> We need long-term things that are going to save money this year, next year, year after. Our problems aren't going away. >> That That'd be true, DJ. But the thing would be, [clears throat] let's say we could get it for 350. >> That's 350,000 we don't have to cut >> This year, >> we have to do it next year. >> Well, that's another story. What we're trying to figure out is what

058are some what are some creative things we could do that could give us some unexpected revenue to help us to get through next year. >> Just for me, Marcy, does if we were to sell the red house, are we still within the square footage that we need to be within to >> Okay. [clears throat] >> To me, the red house has value >> as a potential like use at some point. >> Office space. Um, >> welcome center. >> It's I agree with Director Doner. I wouldn't I mean I could see the farm go. Yeah. I mean, if we can get Yeah. Somebody wants to give us 350 for us. Yeah. You know, let's get her done. But the red house I would wouldn't lose any sleep over that right now. But >> we have >>

059we're thinking about it. >> We have had some issues with um homeless people in both those houses. So, it is >> there another one? There's two houses. >> The other one we're gonna demo that one is >> Where's that at? >> Right next to us. >> Okay. >> I didn't know that. >> Neither. >> I know the one red house where administration was during construction here at Wesby. A pretty nice. >> Y >> not bad little hill. >> Yeah. Which is why we think we could maybe sell it if if it could be moved. >> We could start a bed and breakfast. Make make some money that way. >> Why would it need to be moved? >> Is it on school district property? That's what Okay. Yeah. [clears throat] >> Okay. >> Yeah, you can

060talk about whatever you want. >> Okay. So, >> me when it's my turn. >> So, um, one of the things we crossed off the list was moving fifth grade to a school site because that was a no across the board for your guys's responses. Um, another item that we crossed off was offer sixth grade at Niswah. And I'm going to let Carrie speak to that one. >> Yeah. Um, we dug into that a little bit further. Um, and we actually we found out that it would actually cost us a significant amount of money um to be able to provide sixth grade programming either at NISMA. For example, music the way music um is delivered in sixth grade students choose like choir or orchestra or band. So offering that in this law >> um would cost

061us money for travel for staff to be able to do that. Plus it's pretty hard to have a fourpiece band uh in a small school setting. So it's not a necessarily a qual quality experience for a student. Unless you ask Jason, he says that's a Wisconsin band is just four pieces. So um the other option would be to have students go to Forest View for first hour band, choir or orchestra and then bus students back to Niswah for the remainder of their school day. Um that takes time out of their instructional day and that also costs us more than $60,000 a year to provide just that transportation for that group of students. So at this time we're not recommending going forward with sixth grade at NYSA. Instead, we're recommending offering a second section of fifth

062grade. Uh there is space available. There is already programming available. It would be really nice to have two sections of fifth grade at NISWA um in order to be able to have students have opportunities to collaborate together outside of their own classroom um and do some more innovative programming. Um, uh, Principal Rasi has already developed a parent interest survey that we're getting ready to put out so we can make some decisions earlier than we did last year, um, and provide some, uh, guidance and support to staff to be able to do that. Um, so, uh, the recommendation that we're bringing forward is not sixth grade because it's cost prohibitive, but, um, it could actually be a revenue generator to add another fifth grade section at >> Would that be um open to the entire district?

063>> Well, that's a that's a question for the superintendent. >> Okay. >> Um, if we wanted to entertain the idea of giving families basically three options for fifth grade, NISWA or going outside of our public school domain. Uh that would be a consideration. We haven't talked about doing that beyond the NISA attendance zone at this point. >> Um again, we'd have to talk about things like transportation, things like that. >> Certainly possible. We just haven't gotten that far in the planning yet. Are there enough um fourth graders that they there's two is there two sections of fourth? >> Yeah, there are 60 fourth graders in this year. >> Okay. >> I'm assuming that principal Molly was involved with looking at that sixth grade stuff. >> She sure is. >> Okay. Just wanted to make sure.

064>> She You can ask her. >> No, I mean I I didn't I'm assuming she was. >> Yeah, we >> we really really tried to make it work. We know that that um was something that we had um discussed the possibility of last year. Um but the more we realized the impact it would have on kids, the more it would have the impact on the budget. Um we just wanted to bring the recommendation forward to put the time and energy into expanding fifth grade instead of moving on to sixth. >> Cool. >> One of the things we would do for that is survey the fourth grade parents right now to see if we could get like we did last year. We got a commitment. >> Late though. >> Yeah. This is early. >> This would

065be early. >> It's [clears throat] ready to go now. We would get we would hear back from families in early December and we could start planning. >> Cool. Okay. >> Yeah. That point. >> Is that a good plan? >> Madam Chair. >> Yes. So, um, to Michelle Breen's to Breen's point, if, uh, and I and Marcy, I think you said that everybody was a no on moving all fifth grade to elementary school. There was a couple yeses, but, um, most of them were no. Most of them were no. You're right. Um, but if we had if we put out um um that we could uh possibly move some of the fifth graders back to their home school or back to their previous elementary school and but also keep force few. Wouldn't that cost more? Wouldn't

066that how how cost effective is that? >> It is not cost effective to run dual fifth grade programs at this point. Um, director Ward, we only have four elementary schools that would have potential for one or two sections of uh, fifth grade, which means we would need up to 10 sections of fifth grade still to remain at Forest View. So, we would have to have increased staffing to provide that itinerant support for a fifth grade programming. Uh we would also have to spend some time training our uh fifth grade teachers who would be going to elementary schools to reacquaint them with an elementary model or to teach them an elementary model if they have not had the opportunity to previously teach in an elementary school. Um, so it would be um I wouldn't necessarily say

067cost prohibitive, but it's certainly not budget friendly. Um, and it is not likely to increase revenue given the fact that we've looked at our data and we don't lose a whole lot of students from fourth grade to fifth grade. Um, so if we were going to entertain that idea, it would maybe behoove us to talk about what are we going to do with registration for NISWA before um we retrofit four elementary schools and still need a substantial space [clears throat] at four. >> Well, I think the thought of >> I thought the the [laughter] >> Go ahead, John. You're remote. Go ahead, >> Marcy. Um, when I look at the sheet that you handed out, the colored sheet that has all the savings on it, there's no savings for us with e with with both

068of those fifth grade concepts. >> So, we didn't add up have a number because we needed to explore it. And with the the one that we crossed off was moving fifth grade to an elementary school site. the one that says move it to elementaryaries that have space, we still have on there because like Carrie said, we're gonna see how that misqu survey comes back. So, that one is not crossed off yet. [clears throat] >> Okay. Thank you. >> And that was the whole idea I thought behind moving uh some of the fifth grade back to elementaryaries is because there was a lot of empty space. >> Well, there's not a lot. There is, but there's not [clears throat] enough to absorb all of the fifth graders back in elementary. >> So, we would still need

069space at Forest View, >> which would not make that space available for anything else. We would still have to have a okay >> fifth grade hallway. Um, and one of the things that are on our [clears throat] list to explore is increasing early childhood options. So Marcy and I met with Martha and Emry earlier this week to talk about what is the return on investment of adding um um early childhood programming in those available spaces rather than fifth [clears throat] grade because fifth grade isn't going to generate us revenue but early childhood potentially could. >> Help me understand this. What's the difference of teaching fifth grade at Harrison than take teaching fifth grade at Forest View? So right now the >> they're fifth graders, >> correct? >> Are they going to learn the same stuff?

070>> The teaching model is different. Right now at fifth grade, one teacher teaches language arts or math or social studies all day long. They don't teach all four subject areas. >> In an elementary school where there's only two sections, they would have to teach all of those content areas. >> So teachers would need support and training to be able to do that. Everybody's good. And uh Carrie, let me let me make sure that I understand what you just said because uh we the board members all received and I think administration received some feedback um from um the folks that did some uh AI and CAP uh GPT for us that and and Terry, you mentioned last last uh board meeting that um a revenue generator for us could be extend expand uh extending um our

071ECF program. So, um, if we use some of those classrooms in the in the elementary schools to expand ECF, uh, that would be revenue generating. However, if we if we put fifth graders back in there, that would that would not generate anything. Am I correct on that thinking? >> That is what we're saying at this point given how far we've done into it at this point >> because we don't have because we would still have multiple locations of fifth grade. Thank you. >> Carrie, can you answer this? What is the difference between ECF and preschool? >> It it's just funding. >> Okay. Oh, it's just funding. So, when you're talking >> ages or what? >> Um, well, school readiness would be students. >> Okay. >> Kids, children that are two years away from kindergarten. >>

072Okay. >> Voluntary prek or things like that are for students that are children that are one year away. ECF is like the broad terms for whether parent education programming or >> um preschool or whatever the case. We use those terms two >> interchange. Okay. But what you're talking about is any or all. >> We're we that was the conversation we had this week about how do we braid funding and how do we provide those wraparound services for child care >> in order to meet the needs of our community. but also then expand the opportunities to offer those spaces in our elementary schools. Um, other Minnesota school districts that have done this have found that they often retain those four-year-olds into their fifth grade in elementary programs. >> Um, so it's kind of like a funnel.

073>> For sure. Okay. >> That would be a huge win for families. >> I think so. For sure. >> Yeah. >> So, we are we're digging into that. But >> okay, >> as with all things with funding, it's very complicated. So, I'm just learning as we go. >> Yeah, it is. >> Okay. [snorts and laughter] >> Yeah, it's it's pretty tough, isn't it? I mean, it crazy. >> It is a lot, especially in early childhood. It's very complicated. >> Yes. >> Um and then the next items we had on the list that we crossed off were closing the buildings. So, you know, on the feedback there was um I believe a maybe with Wesby. It wasn't very clear on >> two maybe, two no. Um I'm looking right now. It wasn't really identified, but it's

074two may and a yes and a no. >> We crossed those off. They're off the table. Um and then I don't know if you want to give an update on high school. >> Yeah. So we are uh Christina Lenrren and myself have been meeting with the high school admin. We meet with them every week to talk about uh where are we currently at with making a plan for either keeping a seventh period day schedule or moving to a six period day schedule. This week we looked at data um and we found out that only about 19% of the students that we have in the high school right now actually have classes seven periods a day. >> What percent? >> 19%. So 80% of the students are um selecting to have a study period or an

075online class period or something >> that would give us some latitude with looking at changing scheduling. >> So um we don't have to change graduation requirements in order to do a six period day. Um but we do need to dig in further about how are we going to stagger electives and how are we going to adjust class sizes. Um we have some latitude with some class sizes uh which will [clears throat] also help us um determine what those spaces are going to look like. Um we're running some mock schedules right now with the high school registar to look at plan A, plan B, plan C. Um, and then just looking at how many students would be impacted if they have two musics, how many students would be impacted [snorts] by not having a study center,

076things like that. So, that's our current work in progress. >> What's the SA cost savings >> to go to a sixth period day? >> Is this still 539? >> It's that's what the estimate is. Yeah. >> Okay. And graduation requirements, uh, we're going to keep the same. We're going to keep the same, but we're going to try to roll some of that savings into that six period day by realigning some of the electives. >> Why wouldn't we save the other 240 or 230? >> Say that again. >> Well, you've got How much is it? >> 230. >> 231. >> Why wouldn't we save the other 231 on a graduation standard? What would that make? >> We're not going to change the graduation requirements >> because it's not conducive in a sixth period day. We didn't

077change the >> graduation requirements when we went to a seven period day. So basically the credit requirements are still aligned with the sixth period day. >> So you're talking Greek to me. So Marcy >> stuck money. >> Where are you coming up with the savings by changing the graduation standards? >> So what she's saying is we're not going to change the standards, but we're going to try to find it going from seven to six. We're still going to try to find that. >> What did you think it was? >> We did FTE. We did number of guess on number of FTE. Now that they're actually getting into the schedule. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Well, that's an easy way to say it. >> Sorry. I'll try better. [laughter] >> It's difficult. >> Yes, it's not easy.

078>> I speak educator. I can't help it. >> What I'm just curious what this What is your sense of the high school admin team taking a look at this? >> They have been super collaborative, have they? Okay. >> And they bring really good questions and they bring real they bring data to the table. >> Okay. Um we've been talking about minimum class sizes and maximum class sizes. Um and even at our last meeting, one of the admin brought the um idea of if [clears throat] we could even think of a way, for example, in a pottery class, instead of having a pottery one and a pottery 2 class, if they could be the same hour and then the teacher could just differentiate and have a larger class size. >> Um none of this has been

079decided. These are just things that we are looking at to make sure we're looking in every nook and cranny. >> But you're not feeling like there's a lot of resistance. There's just >> I do not real thinking out of the box. >> Yeah. And there there are a lot of um complexities. >> Yeah. >> So, I think they're being very thoughtful and intentional about how they're bringing their questions to the conversation. They've been really open to meeting with us weekly, which is a big ask. for them to spend that much time with us. >> Okay. >> So, we're moving forward. I mean, you're continuing with this. >> We will come back to you with a recommendation on that. Um the timeline we've decided is we need a decision by the end of um the first

080semester, which is the end of January. >> So, you'll hear more from us at least by the January board meeting. >> Yeah. I mean, >> because the reduction of graduation requirements is off the off the >> It does. It's not impact do that, but it doesn't mean it's gonna be budget neutral either. >> Okay. >> But the 231 is >> she's gonna try to incorporate that with the other change. >> Okay. >> So then we're looking at a $700 and some,000 potential savings. >> Cool. 780. >> 539 or 230. >> Okay. Good. I I believe you totally. >> Then the next one is the middle school activities. So, we did meet with um Josh and uh Jack and they had some proposed reductions in both high school and middle school. So, it may not that

081line item is not um it's changed, right? So, we're going to keep meeting with them and uh figure out what we can save. It's not going to be what was originally proposed. So, >> and which means that we are going to continue to offer middle school sports to our middle school students. >> It just might be modified or >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Will any of them move to community ed? >> Um, in their proposal, they had a couple. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Good. >> Um, >> so that was a four that was a $420,000 savings. So, it it's going to be less than that. Is that what you're saying? >> Correct. That's a great deal. By the way, all this all or nothing stuff is ridiculous. It's like we can let's go modify the

082car. Maybe we can save half, you know, like don't tell me that we have to just pick >> either can it or keep it. That's like >> Yep. >> It's not really not really done. >> We'll lose more than 425. >> It doesn't make any difference. deal is that can we get it done for could we save half of it or could we save 150,000 by modifying it without >> restructure >> and that being said we really appreciate >> yes that the [clears throat] administration has gone out to the principles and to activities team and kind of asked them how do we do this and give us a proposal because they're the feet on the ground they understand how that's going to work and where it's going to hit so it's really smart work thank

083you for doing Yeah. >> Um and then we took off red uh increasing the class size targets for two through grades 2 through 4 and 5 through eight based on the feedback you guys gave us. Those are off the table. >> Um and then that reductions and increasing grades 9 through 12, it's still on there just because of what's happening with all the schedules. So, >> and and I think to me, I'm [clears throat] just personally speaking here, these kids go on to college, they walk into a freshman econ class, they're going to be 150, 200 kids sitting in that. So, I mean, to increase them a little bit, I think at the high school would maybe give them the opportunity to say, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I can deal with this in high school. I

084can deal with it in college." I mean, seriously. I mean it's [clears throat] >> and then as discussed on the previous agenda item redesigning agitate is crossed off just because that's we're going to look at that this next year. Um reducing first [clears throat] grade AGOT is still on the table. That's what you guys will then have at the next at the board meeting. Uh reducing elementary and fed that one we crossed off and then you can explain that one. >> Sure. um we cross that off um because it doesn't have a budgetary impact in a positive way or a negative way. What I don't know doesn't doesn't change the budget allocation to um elementary because fied teachers um provide prep support for classroom teachers. So if we didn't have ed five times a day

085or five times a day, five days a week, um we would have to substitute that with another teacher that provides that prep. >> So it's costneutral. Um and we got feedback from staff and from teachers uh and from principles that it's really important to have five times a week in elementary. >> So we're asking take that one off the table. >> Yep. >> They need to burn they need to burn energy off. Correct. >> You need to go outside. >> Yep. >> And then we also took off the table eliminate busing out of the district. It was only 21,000 and it was I mean those those are kids we're bringing in. So it's kind of >> is it really worth it? Um so that one is off the table as well. >> And then we

086had we actually got um a better number for reducing utilities. So for every degree we change uh said it would be about $20,000. So if we drop four degrees or five um it'd be around 100 grand. So we're Peter asked the question, what can we do now and for the upcoming year? And that's one of the things we're going to >> Oh, that issue. Um and we don't need board action. We just want you to know that um we don't need to have our buildings heated at 72. We don't need them heated at 70. I think we can go to 68. Now, here's the problem. I want to clarify because there's people listening right now. Every building, even though you set it at 68, doesn't mean every room is at 68. So, we just have

087to be careful about that. But if we're going to do this, um, we're going to notify the parents that, let's say, starting December 1st, buildings are going to be cooler in the winter and they're going to be warmer in the summer because we if we can save a 100,000 on utilities, that's longlasting. That's not just a oneshot deal. And um, talking to Jeff, um, it's just we can do it. So, um, that's going to be our plan right now is on December 1st. Everybody be notified as employees and as parents and so forth. We're lowering the temperatures for our buildings. The other thing though that is going to be tricky [clears throat] and probably is not a surprise, but there's a lot of individual refrigerators and stuff like that that suck a lot of juice.

088and we're going to address that as well because if we're going to get into this um we have to all go in on it together because we can't have a loophole where all of a sudden um one building's really doing a good job and the next building h maybe maybe not. So um if we could save 100,000 that's at least one FTE >> space shaders too. >> Yes. So, we um we're going to get a little more information from Jeff, but this is this is going to [clears throat] be a goal. >> Nice work. >> Good job. >> Yeah. >> Um and then I don't really have any other updates on any of the other lines we're still [clears throat] working on. >> I have one more. >> Yeah. Uh, Director Lungren and I met

089with uh, Director Schultz this week to talk about techn shared technology for >> parts and reduced uh, support. Um, running an analysis of how our tech team spends their time it and >> usage of the devices in our elementary schools. We are confident that we can make a reduction in kindergarten through second grade on uh, shared devices. So, um, we can repurpose some of those carts in other areas, um, and not, um, support those in the same way that we are now. We're still looking at staffing, um, because the, uh, elementary, uh, tech support spends 99% of their time with staff and not with students. So, how are we going to accommodate the staff needs if we reduce that staff alignment? Um, just because of the way that tickets are routed. They get to spend

090a lot of time with um staff. Um there aren't as many student needs in elementary as there are in secondary schools. So, that's a work in progress, but we're confident that we can come forward with recommendations for kindergarten through 2 grade access to devices shortly. >> So, that was about a $76,000 savings. And what is there was there any kind of a cost figure that we would be at with with uh you know with changing that? >> Well, we haven't gotten quite that far yet, Director Ward. Um but we do know that we're moving in the right direction for what you've asked us to investigate. >> Thank you. [clears throat] >> What about Chromebooks in general? Where where are we moving on that? um where kids, you know, they have them, they take them home,

091uh stuff like that. I mean, is that necessary? >> Well, it is necessary if we're going to assign homework um because um the majority of our curriculum, especially in secondary, uh is accessed through online resources. So, if we want students to be able to do their homework at home, we have to provide them with a device in order to do so. And that's because of decisions that were made in the past in the district. >> Correct. And that is just current practice with how curriculum is available. If we going >> the whole world or for just the >> whole world. Yep. >> Well, I saw that Sweden took them completely out of their schools. >> Um then >> the whole country without them. So they must get some curriculum someplace. >> Um well, I don't

092know a lot about Swedish curriculum. I just know that um if they're a trends setter, we should certainly look at them. If we were going to retrofit and get rid of devices and get rid of access to online curriculum and go to paper and hard copies, it would cost us millions of dollars. So, it would have to be a phased approach. >> Well, I'm curious, you know, I mean, Randy, I kind of with I kind of agree with you on this deal. You know, it's like, oh, we got Fastbridge assessments, we got Saber assessments, we have all these assessments, right? Well, you couldn't even do them if they didn't all have their little computers or maybe you had to roll them in for the for them to take their test. Um, but it's like >>

093Parent Square, Skybound, all this software isn't free. Am I right, Marcy? That's >> true. >> We're paying for all this software. So, yeah, it cost us a ton of money to kind of, especially for the little kids to maybe get back to pencil and paper. Um, but how much are we going to save on the other side of it? You know, I mean, >> to be clear, for the for the primary age students, they spend maybe an hour a day on their on their devices right now. They do have a lot of paper and pencil. If we were going to expand that request for paper and pencil beyond those primary grades, that's where it is cost prohibitive to do that. We can deliver uh curriculum a lot more effectively and efficiently for teachers and for

094students by using technology applications. Um, an example would be social studies curriculum. Um, in the past when I was a classroom teacher many, many years ago, we would get a new social studies book and it would be outdated the minute it was printed. So, if we want to be able to use primary sources and we want to be able to use uh things that are aligned with our academic standards, we'd have to be really thoughtful if it wasn't going to be using technology devices. and we'd have to question, are we really preparing kids for the world beyond school if we're not giving them access to different platforms and different tools? Um, that's a that's third grade and beyond. We're specifically talking about K2. We're confident we can make some changes. >> Do we teach kids

095how to be responsible with >> we do a digital citizenship >> every year? >> Yep. Digital citizenship is part of our curriculum. >> How about staff citizenship? Do we do that every year? There are some requirements for mandated reporting for staff and there are some guide books or um guidelines and handbooks about um staff [clears throat] behavior. You talked about at the last meeting about social media policies. >> Yeah. >> So those are all connected. Yep. >> So you're saying K through two they're only on their Chromebooks for one hour >> an average. >> What about um third and fourth grade? I I didn't pull that data because we were only talking about K2. >> But we'd be happy to get back to you. >> Yeah. Like just because the more studies I have been

096reading is we need to get the kids off the Chromebooks. They know how to use you go. Okay. Let's just say you go out for dinner. You'll see a 2-year-old just sitting on their parents' phone. They probably are better on their phone than I am. I don't think, like you said, they need to be able to do it once they get out in the real world. I think they've already gotten it by the time they're five. And I'd like to try to keep it out of their hands until that's sixth grade. So I'd like to know for third and fourth grade. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Flip phones are making a comeback. >> Yep. >> Text and um voice. >> That's it. >> No internet. It's coming back. [laughter] >> It is. It is

097>> talking about cell phone stuff now. Technology. That's all we're talking technology. >> Okay. You do. I believe you. I'm just saying I think I [laughter] think that I think that we've been talking about this I know I have for three years and and and it's always like Yep. Oh, nothing changes. [snorts] >> So, it's like we're actually talking about it and let's just >> rip the band-aid off. >> Yep. >> It's not that big a deal. Those little kids, you know, giving us >> Yeah. [cough] When I write something out, it's a lot better than when I type it on my computer. I'll write it out and it's like, okay, did I write that wrong? If you do it on your computer, it will correct you and then you won't know how to spell

098the word. So, >> I will tell you this though, >> how that feels. >> I I'll [laughter] tell you this, DJ. When when your little granddaughter Harper starts getting uh fussy and angry and you give her the phone and put Baby Sharks on there, you'll be happy >> about technology. [laughter] >> Oh, God. My neph my my little grandson He's on that looking at that stuff and it just drives me that song just >> I don't I don't know I can't get it out of [laughter] my head. >> We're going to get >> Keep it going. Keep it going. >> I think you're done. >> I think we [laughter] [clears throat] >> Thank you for this. >> Madam Chair, wait a minute. Carrie, Carrie and Marcy. Marcy and Carrie. [laughter] >> Darn it. >> Didn't

099get away cooking. cutting out. >> I would have gra I would have hooked I would have grabbed the hook if I was there. Um so um I just I just want to well first of all thank you for all the administrative team for all that you have brought forward to us and because I think that you've made some did done you have done some hard work and you've made some uh great choices for us uh that um you know doesn't hurt the kids and the staff as much um as much. They're all going to be we're all going to be hurt. But uh I I I appreciate all the work that you've done. I do want to bring up uh one of the elephants in the room though and that is administrative cuts. Well, I

100have you know and all of us or a number of board members have presented um um different scenarios and things like that. Um I saw a new position advertised um something in the payroll mars and I know that that's important. Um I and I also saw that on our regular agenda tonight. There are a couple different a number of different positions in the elementary schools. I I don't have that in front of me right now. I will have it in front of me. Um but um and I know that uh Director Heidman um talked about a hiring freeze last time. Um, so when ha have has have the administrative team talked at all about administrative cuts or administrative realignment or administrative savings? Um, I'd like to know I'd like to know that. >> No, John

101Director Ward, we are talking about e everything. Um, and especially as we're thinking about the conversations related to enrollment and staffing for next year, um, we have talked about admin. We have talked about, um, um, all kinds of support staff to go along with it. Um, we'd be happy to come back with more specifics. At this point, it's just been executive level conversations, but it is definitely being talked about. Sound >> I appreciate hearing that. >> And one thing I should have probably said is obviously with taking some of those things off the table that we will be dipping into fund balance, right? I mean, and it's ever changing. That number is going to keep evolving, but that is not if we take those items off. I just want to make sure you are all

102aware that that is using fund balance then. So, >> thank you. All right, we are at the end. >> A couple more. >> Oh, yeah. Go ahead. >> So, um, thank you, Carrie and, uh, Marcy. There's a couple things I do want to bring up. Um, it's not monetary, it's not budget, but it is, I think, considering uh, that term was administrative updates. Um the executive committee had cabinet had a fairly serious discussion the other day and [clears throat] we're going to be a little bit blunt with you because I think that's the only way to deal with this. We we're really questioning whether or not the format of how we have presenters come in front of the board is effective or not. Um, we have our principles come forward, we have directors come forward,

103and one of the one of the things I think that I'm very concerned about, and I talked to Sarah about this, is that um, when people come forward to do a presentation, I think there's a concern in the back of their mind of how well is this going to go over? one, two, what questions am I going to get asked that are um a little bit aggressive and that the um outcome is I wish I hadn't come up and talked and I'll be quite honest with you. Um I had I have reservations about this work session which surprisingly I thought went really well. >> It's not done yet. I know [laughter] I'm not done yet. >> We're still assigning Stewart up, Peter. >> But I I I'm we have got to be able to handle

104ourselves in a fashion that when a principal or a director comes forward and addresses the board, whatever it's going to be of a report, whether you like what you heard or you liked what you did or whatever, we have got to treat these people better. Um, as a principal, anytime that I was in front of the board, I wanted to be confident in what I was delivering and I wanted to be confident what it was going to be asked of me. And I wanted to be confident that I'm not going to um worry about can I say what I need to say or do I have to be careful. And um we're get we're getting better, but we got a ways to go. And um I don't want our employees to feel they cannot come

105forward without worrying about a sideswipe or I'm going to keep this as short as possible so that I don't have to answer any questions. Open dialogue is healthy but it has to be done in a manner that is supportive and it has to be done in a manner that if you have questions they should be asking you should be asking for what you don't know and what you want to know. And going back to the format, [clears throat] we talked about maybe when we you get the package from Kelly, um maybe is it better to have you ask questions prior to the presentation or ask questions after online to that individual just to >> absolutely be better. I don't know why we don't have our agenda a week before the meeting. Well, that's something Randy

106We can work on or Randy DJ. But I I just want us to be in a a situation where there is no fear of coming forward and talking to the board. And I I don't like the fact [clears throat] that too many board meetings have come in and they're the number one rated Neielson show in the district because people are waiting to see what's going to happen. And we have got to break that habit. We have got to be uh we have got to be more professional. And I say this for another really important reason. There is somebody out there watching this board meeting tonight. That person could be a potential candidate that wants to come here and be interviewed. I don't know how many people are going to watch it and go, "Uh, I

107think I'll pass." We can't afford that. I hope you get 25 applicants and you have to really fight hard to figure out who's going to be your next superintendent. But we have to we have to conduct ourselves a little bit better and we have to be um more cognizant of the people that come to talk to you are professionals. They're doing the very best they can and we just have to be more respectful. I talked to Sarah about this. Um, we got ways to go. We're I think we can get I know we can get better, but we have a ways to go. And the people who are going to come and speak to you, they have to have that support from you. They have it from me. But we we just we got to

108be really careful about what we're doing because it sets a precedent and I think it to some degree [clears throat] it really sets a negative vibe throughout the district. The employees are wondering what's going on. they don't feel they're valued or they don't feel trusted or, you know, they're just going, "Well, this is never going to change." And I want us to be better than that. And I want our I want the people who sit in the audience, the people who watch it, the people who present um feel very good about what they're doing as they sit before you and make their presentation. As opposed to walking away and going, "Boy, am I glad that's over." >> Do all school boards have these presentations? This what school boards do? Pardon? >> I haven't watched a

109lot of other school schoolboard meetings. Yeah, >> this is what schoolboard meetings everybody's schoolboard meetings. This is how they all go >> pretty much. You mean what presentations are >> who picks what the presentations are? >> Well, usually it's on a rotation basis. For example, you know, you look at what's going to happen tonight. We're going to have what, four CIP reports. That's that's normal. And all different kinds of programs and districts usually come forward at some point during the year and make a report, an update, whether it's early childhood, it's food service. Um, most of the time it happens to be the district level people because of budgeting and curriculum and things like that. But yeah, everybody I mean um I've always had it as a superintendent at least once a year if not

110twice the athletic director comes forward and says how things are going in the athletic department extracurriculars co-curriculars because it's it's information to share so that you if you get asked a question in the public about something and you go I don't even know what they're talking about at least we're trying to provide you information so you can have a a response. Uh but yeah, DJ, it it is pretty much what it is [clears throat] >> and we we have to do better. >> Let's start by let's start by let's let's just try >> Yeah. >> giving us the agenda a week before the meeting. >> Okay. We can >> we can get through this stuff. >> Y >> I mean, a lot of them come out on, you know, Friday afternoon >> and >> Kelly

111and I will take care of that. >> Okay, that'd be good. I know that some people that are on some other deals, the government things, they have them a week ahead and so that'd be great. It' make a huge difference. I mean, if something comes up, it's just the way it goes. >> Yeah, >> that's no big deal. But these these uh things you're talking about, they're planned out. You probably already know what's going to be on the December one. >> Pretty close. >> Yeah. So, it's like there's no reason to hold off. >> Give us the dope. We can work it out in a different environment. >> Okay. I like that idea. Yeah, I do too [clears throat] >> because we we do we don't meet on the agenda till Thursday and that's why

112the agenda doesn't come out but we can change that. >> That's good. >> And we should make sense. [clears throat] Good recommendation. >> All right, >> Madam Chair. >> Yes, Director Ward. >> Um, Superintendent Grant, thank you for that. And um I know that we all heard that loud and clear and I think as a I think in my from my perspective and I feel um as a board we are we are getting better but yes we have a ways to go and we're you know I I know I I know my fellow colleagues um and I um are working to to to be better and get better. I do want to I do want to address so that um you know asking questions um um before their presentation or after the presentation or whatever.

113A lot of times I'll take notes during a presentation and something they say will come up and I and it and it um it it spurs me on to make a comment or ask a question. So I don't want to be um I I want to I want to have open discussion. I want to have I want to be openminded. I want to be respectful and responsible, but I want to have that open dialogue um you know rather than rather than either waiting or or pre asking or whatever because a lot of times the presentation um um inspires some questions. >> Yep. And John, I don't disagree with you. Um you should have that as the presentation's being given. Oh, I never thought of this. I'd like clarification. is the matter in the tone and

114the intent. >> Agreed. >> Thank you, Director Word. >> All right. >> Can I make a comment? >> Yeah, I think >> as long as this is just a >> work session. Um, I've sent [clears throat] out various emails to uh board members and I've sent some emails to some of the staff regarding a small community in Ohio called Stubenville, Ohio. It's about the same size town Brainard has a river running through it. It has a poverty rate exceeding 80%. Lot of poverty etc. and they are one of the best schools in the entire country where I first heard about this and if if you haven't this is board members people in the audience whatever go to Emily Hanford uh go through sold the story and this is where this came from as far as

115Stubenville and the data is out for 2025 they've got three elementary schools and on STEM Academy. All 78 third grade students who sat for the state's English language arts exam scored proficient or higher 100%. every kid, 78 of them at Wells Academy, which is a elementary school, 47 third grade students who sat for the state's English language arts exam scored proficient or higher 100%. At the STEM Academy, there was only 23rd grade students who sat for that same exam, and they all scored 100%. and a Garfield Elementary 53 out of 55 scored above proficiency. [snorts] The reason I'm bringing this up is they've had the same [clears throat] they've had the same literacy curriculum for 25 years and they are just blasting it right out of the world. And we were talking earlier about spending

116money for some of these studies and whatnot. I'm just going to throw this out because this is a workshop. Peter, we got money in the budget to send a couple people out to Stubenville and find out what the heck they're doing. I mean, I'm just throwing it out. I mean, we talk about different stuff and we talk about what MDE can do for us. Why don't we Why don't we look at what Stubenville is doing? >> [laughter] >> I mean, you can't argue with the numbers. And this has been going on for 25 years, folks. 25 years. >> Yeah, it's a good assessment. >> They've had the same same curriculum. It's called success for all. And I'm just, you know, hey, do what you want, but man, uh I encourage you to read, uh and

117take a look at that. Uh it's episode 11 of Sold the Story. It's all about Stupenville, Ohio, and what they've done. It's absolutely incredible. >> Thanks very much. >> And the teachers have all bought in. 100% of the teachers bought into the success for all in order for that curriculum to be put in that school district. And they did a private vote. 100%. All the all were in favor of it. So, it's Hey, something to look at. I mean, uh, >> we can do it, too. >> Mhm. >> I know we can do it. >> Yeah. But >> but we're doing that, >> you know, >> um why not why not look at what someone else is doing very successful. I mean, we talk about doing this study and doing this study and doing that

118study. Well, you know, couple airplane tickets and a couple hotel rooms and I don't know, just throwing it out for what it's worth. >> All right. Thanks, Randy. Um, we are going to adjourn our work [snorts] session and we will be back in session here at 6 o'clock.