Asheville City Board of Education Work Session - 1/23/23

001sorry I'd like to call this special called meeting National City School Board to order um we have all board members present so we do have a quorum and um I'd like to put forth a request uh approve tonight's agenda so move it's been moved seconded all in favor aye aye any opposed all right agenda is passed so we're here uh for a very special occasion um with the um oath of office for our newest board member Jesse Warren so we're going to start with that so Jesse if you'd like to come up we've got judge Thornburg here to present what's up yep things all right Mr Warren if you place your left hand on the Bible and raise your right hand do you Jesse Warren solemnly and sincerely swear that you will support the Constitution

002of the United States and will you be faithful and bear true allegiance to the state of North Carolina and to the Constitutional Powers and authorities which are or may be established for the government thereof and will you Endeavor to support maintain and defend the constitution of said State not inconsistent with the Constitution of the United States to the best of your knowledge and abilities so help you God I do do you Jesse Warren solemnly swear that you will and truly execute the duties of the office of member of the board of education for Asheville City according to the best of your skill and ability and according to law so help you God I do congratulations [Applause] [Music] good person go ahead Mr chair um I think it would Mr chair I think it would be

003appropriate for the board to thank judge Thornburg for his time in this matter thank you judge laurenburg for being here to do that let's thank you all right so here we are board of seven for the first time um welcome to this special called session where we're going to really be talking about the work that we've all kind of um had in the back of our minds and now his Forefront and that's this work as a board one of our one of the primary duties of a school board to appoint uh and evaluate the superintendent so this meeting as agenda shows we're going to be talking about how that search begins um as a board we're going to be discussing timelines announcements application and all that kind of thing um so on the we have

004some um links every board member should have these to timeline for the superintendent search the vacancy announcement the application and the RFQ the superintendent search firm the RFQ has already gone out so we are in the process of of accepting search form applications and as those come in we will more than likely be able to discuss those at the next work session it just depends on as they come in so those you know I'm going to go ahead and throw it out to the board if we want to discuss that RFQ any further or if we're we're good with that and moving on great okay um so I think the the next important step is the announcement the vacancy announcement uh so we're going to go there and one thing we're going to try today

005which which we haven't tried in a long time if in my recollection if we ever have we're going to do some sharing of the screen up on the big board it's actually already up there and so as a board working through this kind of talked about this announcement and what we see if there are any edits we want to make that kind of thing um so we all have access to this announcement so if you can go ahead and pull that up now and at the risk of um talking a whole lot I think I'll go ahead and read it if that's all right with everybody and then we can start with some some comments so the Board of Education superintendent announcement for Asheville City Schools the Asheville City School Board of Education is Seeking

006a superintendent who is excited to lead a small Nimble and Progressive school system in the vibrant city of Asheville North Carolina Asheville City Schools comprises two high schools two middle schools and five elementary schools with a total student body of four thousand Asheville City Schools enjoys a staff of gifted Educators an Engaged community of students and parents and some of the highest per people funding in the state we are looking for a superintendent who has the skills and experience to Marshal those resources wisely and creatively in the service of every educator and every student we seek a superintendent who enjoys learning who is excited to engage students and Educators alike and who brings joy and curiosity to their leadership and we seek a superintendent who shares with their team the conviction that every student is

007capable of success and a commitment to the success of Educators and students alike where you're looking for a bold servant leader and we look forward to meeting you so I'll stop there and just see if there's comments in that first first paragraph any edits or anything like that and we can be rework in real time as we do this that looks good yeah I want to also acknowledge Amy Ray who has put some time into this ahead of this um and and the language that you've brought to this Amy I really appreciate this so thank you um are we good with this paragraph yep okay good I don't know if it's appropriate but if we were sitting around the circle as we were in our last work session I think we would have asked staff

008if they were satisfied with that opening paragraph does any of the staff who are here want to comment or offer suggestions and you you know this obviously is going to be read in the context of the entire announcement but is there anything in there that you want to talk about or mention thank you thanks Amy for that in the spirit of a classroom would anyone else like to read the next paragraph okay great thanks Liza yeah absolutely candidates must meet the legal requirements to be licensed as a superintendent in North Carolina or be qualified to serve under the State Board of education's alternative guidelines central office and building level experience are preferred additionally we prefer a doctorate degree or progress toward a doctorate degree the successful candidate will be required to reside in Buncombe County

009and we encourage residents in the Asheville City School District salary is competitive and negotiable and will be commensurate with experience and a history of demonstrated leadership applications are due by February 10 2023. I have a question is does building level experience the people who are reading this would know what that means is that a term of Art that's a great question I mean Dr Cosby and when if if um building level experience to me I'm guessing it means you've been a teacher or administrator but is that a term of art that I think it normally refers to a principal ship so so it would be understood by by candidates reading that do you think I think most if they're practicing superintendents they would okay I mean you we could find look find that a little

010more clear if you want to and say building level leadership I'm happy with it as written it doesn't mean anything to me but I will not be applying for the job so it doesn't need to be as an educator it conveys to me that that this person had the candidate has served in a school building are we definitely on the the doctorate needing a doctor to write off uh I know that there have been some candidates not candidates but I know we've had uh in the past some individuals who have applied but also looking around the state and having a chance to meet a couple of different superintendents who did not have their doctorate yet um are we definite on that at this point and I don't know if Dr Cosby could speak a little

011bit more to the merits of having a doctorate over a master's or you know working you know I understand working towards a doctorate but James I'm just going to interrupt and say that I'm hearing that nobody can hear you they can't hear you very well so maybe pull that new microphone a little closer I guess I have to eat the mic then yeah uh yeah better yeah okay so are we wedded to the idea of needing a doctorate as opposed to possibly a Masters or Master you know first person working I know we have working towards a doctorate it says doctorate degree or progress towards a doctorate degree so should we also put in our masters just to make sure that people understand that that's that's something that would be accepted the doctor's degree is

012not required for the position and many times you'll find folks who do not have it who are well qualified or more qualified than others it's really a matter of experience and looking at what what folks are done and what their capacity and abilities are rather than what a degree should be but that's really your preference yeah I was I I think I understood had heard that but I was Iowa State's a preference and not a requirement but maybe we don't want to prefer that I don't know I think it it could possibly turn off some people if it's I mean I know you know if you've got your Masters and you if you got if you're working towards a doctorate then you ought to you should have a master's that you're working towards you know

013but just making sure that we have that uh differentiator in there because that was not in the last time we did a search um and I just want to make sure because uh you know there were some individuals who applied last time I had the experience of sitting on that that um did not have a doctorate right right um and we're not working towards their doctorate so at the time um and I don't think that we should knock out people because of that the post that we struck like contents I think that's fine yeah to to to strike I mean they're going to give us their Advanced degrees anyway if they have any so that's my suggestion yeah I mean how do we feel about that I'm in agreement okay it's fine with me I

014do believe that Miss Earl might have something she wants to say George so I wanted to mention that okay I don't know I don't know if this is the right time to say this I might should have said it at the first paragraph but the new superintendent that we're looking for that's coming in is he going to adopt a program that we already have that's working or we're going to start from ground up and try to build up we've been doing that for years and it's every superintendent to come in have their own little agenda and it we're getting that's just a question that I want to know Miss Earl thank you for bringing that up and I think that is an important thing that um I would I would say that that kind of

015deep questioning is something that's going to be really helpful for us as we move into interviewing and looking at candidates but I'll fill it out to the board if that's something we want to State explicitly in this announcement but I miss Earl thank you for bringing that up I think that's important you know one thing that I could imagine adding to the paragraph that is the next paragraph where we identify and we enumerate nine qualities that we're looking for we could think about adding one that says something along the lines of continuing our efforts toward Equity kind of speaking in language of I I don't know if that would address that or not but sort of continuing and expanding upon the districts strong um history of working toward Equity but you know we obviously haven't

016achieved it so Sarah's yeah I I cannot speak for Miss Earl and she can speak again for herself I heard her say more that we want to indicate we're not looking for someone to come in and take us back to ground zero and build us back up but rather I mean obviously we're committed to equity but that I don't know I think she was really just saying uh um making this job description acknowledge that we have some programs that are working well and we want folks to embrace those again I cannot speak from Israel but I think that was more what she was saying as opposed to somebody who's going to break down some of the progress we've made right which is why I thought I suggested continuing or building upon current programs right um

017so we could in those nine we could add a tenth um I'm just saying I think it's about more than Equity it's just about having an actual program like foundations or okay whatever again miss Earl May need the microphone back to clarify gotcha I heard you talk about actual programs that we have in place that's what I was hearing but foreign grade level you know I just don't think that we should have to because every time I've been in this situation many of times with a with different superintendents that comes in every time they come in they come in with their idea and there's been so many so many different superintendents to where we're just getting farther and farther apart there are might not be a lot of them but there are a few problems

018in here whose kids start early and they're on grade level now and we I think that you guys should look at that program of those programs and build from there and the superintendent should do the same we're going to superintendent that's going to work with us not against us and one who's not coming in to stay three or four years and he retires we can make this work with four thousand pupils we can make this work and we're going to make it work thank you Miss Earl Amy I like the wording that you use building upon programs that are proven successful like maybe let's hold that into the list that concept dude I think that um in the the next paragraph that we could perhaps shift the focus um to to emphasize the the strategic

019planning of of existing programming um and the things that are working um you know perhaps like a a commitment to existing programming um successful yeah the successful programming right so so yeah so so James just mentioned number four on the list so I've moved down to that next paragraph um by the way we will have to come back when we go to the timeline about this applications are due by but we'll we'll come back to that the mission of the National City School Board of Education is to create and learning environments that ensure excellent with equity for all students and to empower and engage every child to learn discover and thrive as the Board of Education reviews superintendent applications we will be looking specifically for um and I'm not I won't well actually I'll go

020ahead and read this out number one Visionary and collaborative educational leadership to strong communication skills three experience effectively leading and inspiring a team it looks like Amy you're going to add that in I'm typing yeah that's fine that's great isn't that four can we not I mean what if in number four it was this a leader who will build upon academic instructional curricular and administrative programs with proven success like that sort of taking number four and deepening it to miss Earl's point about building not create like clarifying what we want I feel like this one's kind of neutral we're saying specifically we don't want brand new programs we want you to build on what what is successive here yeah but I I'll just press back just ever so slightly that I think that that next

021one where it says leadership and academic instruction curriculum and administration is calling for someone who has shown that they are leaders in those specific kind of um areas whereas I think a leader who will collaborate with our Educators stakeholders Community Partners to build upon the programs we already have that I see a slight difference but if you all don't and you want to just I'm going to suggest that we might consider just making this a new number 10 that yes to trying to make it four which is what I thought I was actually adding it at four and then I was going to change five four to five and you know but yeah but I like what Rebecca said I I think what I want to add to the discussion is they want to build

022upon but what we're really also saying is they need to be able to listen right that instead of just coming in and telling us what to do that they're willing to listen to the community and to us about hey these things actually work so Amy is your word smithing over there I think I would add that verb I'm trying to decide where in the pecking order that should go I don't know that we want it right at 10 because I think Community leadership and involvement is nice to end with so um I'm gonna I'm gonna find a place for that play with the language and then let's come back to that if that's okay yeah based on what we've said thank you I do I do see this discussion and you know statement of what

023we're looking for as fitting in with item five I don't know if perhaps we could break five and four up and somehow combine them Amy is your typing number six I like it and it's making me curious if we still need number one why not put it into number one well I my own thought about that and I the difference between one and this is the word Visionary um because I think what we're actually asking for is not Visionary in that part of it kind of yeah um I think that the uh James what was your question because I had a thought about that what did you just say sorry you just answered it oh okay so um I mean that's just my thought is that Visionary adds something that's really different from um somebody

024who's going to listen to and collaborate and build upon the programs we already have a Visionary and collaborative educational leadership um and then to use collaborate right again and again and again I mean I know that we're emphasizing collaboration very strongly which is great which is what we've been lacking but I just want to make sure that we're not almost being redundant right in what what we're doing here I guess I'm curious too like the starting place of this was building upon success and so we've got collaborate a collaborative approach in here I wonder if we could distill it down to one that's more focused on building on success um because I think we're sharing that collaboration is of value already and would that help us get okay to wear each one because I hear

025James and I agree the sort of that each one really stands on its own um so that there's this real clarity the word dynamic comes to mind for me um implying you know both both Visionary and collaborative qualities you want to try Visionary and dynamic educational educational leadership um number one yeah so I changed as you can probably see so now six where where in the heck am I oh sorry um six the the new six a leader who will listen to our Educators and Community Partners and build upon and nurture the programs of Asheville City Schools I guess it's also the programs of Our Community Partners I'll just say and nurture the programs that have proven to be successful how does that sound sounds great and then I will renumber the rest of these

026awesome sauce thank you Amy yeah sure thank you Amy when you finish will you read it one more time for me but I'll let the which one the one I just the one that we just wrote yes and I am gonna I got a little lost the one you rewrote was that to address what we talked about or did we can you read it for me one more time absolutely so I'll my maybe I should just read all ten real quick it's pretty great okay so uh let's go back the paragraph is as the Board of Education reviews superintendent applications we will be looking specifically for one Visionary and dynamic educational leadership strong communication skills experience effectively leadering and inspiring a team leadership and academic instruction curriculum and administration ability to engage collaboratively in strategic

027planning decision making delegation and follow-through that emphasizes coherence of vision and implementation throughout the district I think that's what we were gonna right that's where we are on that one okay a leader who will listen to our Educators and Community Partners and build upon and nurture the programs that have proven to be successful experience effectively managing a budget personnel and Facilities success in identifying and procuring additional funding oh yeah demonstrated leadership in maintaining safe orderly and nurturing School environments that uplift students who experience multiple challenges and a history of community leadership and involvement okay one we got successful uh successful according to who who I mean great question I mean it's going we're going to pick someone that's going to have much of these traits and Leadership skills already so do we really need this

028many for a person to look at and to just I mean are we going to pick the right one and to have a list of them as men a lot of these are duplicate I mean I'm reading the same word in more than one sentence I mean do we really need I mean can we narrow it down a little bit more I mean it's so that if a person look at this I'd be scared to be a superintendent if I had to read all of this all right because I might not make one of these here uh it's best when it's successful according to who according to you according to me according to them all right I I you know I think Jesse that this I feel like this describes an ideal of what we're

029looking for it's not a litmus test on any particular point but in terms of successful we're not saying you know that we're going to Define that in this particular job description it's just a job description that says these are the things that we are that we hope to find this is what we're looking for um so I'm I'm not as worried about but maybe we should be maybe other folks would agree that we need to like pair this back somehow um for my purposes I think it does a pretty good job of our aspirations of what we are looking for and and we're gonna hope and and it's kind of gives us to me it gives us like the those things are when we interview I'm going to be asking like hey does this person

030meet how many of these you know right qualities are you know do they satisfy compared to another candidate that's how I see these working but what do you all think I appreciate you bringing that up just because I think that especially when a group writes the propensity to just go long needs to be checked um and I think it's a it's a worthwhile Endeavor to take a step back and consider can we consolidate can we clarify can we be pithy and clear um and I think it's worth taking a few minutes to look at because already I'm I'm like wondering could we combine one and four and have a Visionary Dynamic leader in academic instruction curriculum Administration can I say something of course um I agree with all of you guys taking a step back

031but when looking at over a 10 12 year period of time of all the leadership that we've had I feel like the more clearer we can be and the more detail that we can be the better off we're going to be in the long run because every one of these um points here we've had issues with so all of them are important and I think for us to move forward we need to be clear on what we're expecting out of them and I don't want to be General I I want to be extraordinary I I want that top-notch superintendent and so if we don't find it out of this detail then maybe that's not the person that needs to be our superintendent um so taking a step back yes see what we can you know

032condense down to but all of these areas we have had significant issues with that have been detrimental to Student Learning I do I do it would be combined and perhaps paired down um a little bit but I I agree that you know it this does enumerate the the challenges that we've faced over the past decade Plus one suggestion that I would have in terms of looking at one and four and how I see the difference what if we were simply to say a Visionary and dynamic leader and the education part being then addressed in a leadership in academic instruction curriculum and administration um I don't know see what you mean that it's it's the leadership quality that's number one right and then the experience is number four I see that difference yeah so I don't

033know foreign we could say Visionary and dynamic educational leader with strong communication skills all of the leaders that we've had all of the leaders that we've had put on favor their Dynamic and you know my thing is this and I don't know where you're going to put it but I don't know what you guys are when you say successful I don't know what you're talking about what I want is this like she said we've heard these words before what I want to know and what I want is this I don't know how you're gonna put down on the paper or what a child that's in school will make some growth each semester a year or whatever I don't know what you're going to do we have a program that can work toward that I don't

034know what you're going to do but I don't want anybody I wouldn't want anybody in here I don't care if they had all those 10 points and the kids are still where they are now I want to see if you are in okay I'm just going to use this as example if you're in my program and you come in and you have a one first marching period go to the teacher and say this child has the one how can he make a two a three or four that's what I want to see I don't want to see where this superintendent was successful because he changed our colors he changed out this he changed out I don't care about any of that I'm just whatever you do I want to see that the children have made

035a growth after first marking period and if they haven't made a growth after after the first Market period what are we going to do about it superintendent that is thank you Miss Earl peppy in the back [Music] Miss Earl I appreciate everything you just said and everything you've been saying um on the the success and identifying and procuring additional funding Amy are you thinking in terms of a track record of success working with County Commissioners working with governmental bodies working with state legislators um in that sort of way and it's just something to to with the funding we've got and the resources we've got we really need every level of government to step up to make this District successful great thank you puppy and thank you Miss Earl um I think one thing that I'm

036excited about with this conversation is it's it's helping me think about when we get to that interview process what what are the questions we're asking to really get to the heart of what the superintendent is going to look like so so as a board I hope we can also think about that as you know we're putting out this announcement that goes out you know across the state or across the whatever we you know however we choose um to get these applications coming in and then we're thinking like what are the questions that we need to ask to really dig into um the growth that missiles talk about or how we're funding the district and all those kinds of things so so I appreciate those two comments um to help us kind of think about that

037Amy I wonder if in number six instead of proven to be successful we would want to say proven to support student growth lot works for me I also to um Mr sibo's point I'm curious about if there's space here or if it's in another space for us to we we've named that a priority we'd like to work on is building a legislative agenda and thinking about what options we have what's available to us to Advocate at the state level for increased Educational Funding and I don't know if that's um just typical that just needs to stay in a governance role with us and that it's not appropriate in our search for a superintendent someone who would partner with us in that endeavor but if if it is then I think maybe around number eight we

038could be clear and offer up to somebody that that's something we're interested in doing we could we could to that point we could put that into 10. under a history of community leadership you can put you could put that there with your involvement especially on the governmental side um normally well I was going to say normally superintendents not as recent but some of our superintendents in the past have been very involved on the chamber level every superintendent as Asheville City Schools is actually a member of the Chamber of Commerce board automatically they've also been involved on the governmental relations side of things so it's only been in the last couple of years when that went away so for me that would be I like where you're going with that but putting it maybe in number

03910 because we need someone who's not afraid to get out in front of people and that's where that Community leadership and involvement comes into play and we could we could stick something there but also to go back to what George was saying these are also some of these are questions that we could be more specific about in a actual interview process as opposed to what we're trying to do here so can I offer some thoughts that just processing listening to everything I'm going to skip the first paragraph for a second the second paragraph is pretty basic stuff the third we've heard is a chance to say this is what we need with some specificity knowing that in an interview process we can go deeper and ask questions um I know we haven't gotten to the

040next question yet but that's a way to sort of talk about Asheville and then we end with this last paragraph and I think one of the things I'm hearing from a few folks is that maybe we haven't been honest enough in the first paragraph about what it is we really want I mean we we do we use this word successful like it's something that we have a checklist for and again I think that long paragraph says these are the things that we know we need but I guess I'm reopening up paragraph one and is that a place to say somewhere in there we have some successful programs we have some obstacles is there just a little bit of time a place in there to say I'm going to stop here because I don't know what

041it is but to be a little more honest in that first paragraph about what we want is there a way to do that I'm struggling with your word honest okay and that's probably not a good one um I guess the question is what's paragraph one designed to do so for me paragraph one was about trying to find somebody who has Joy creativity excitement and actually the idea was to try to find somebody who wants to stay here who wants to invest in a small Progressive school system and is excited about that opportunity rather than trying to get into the brass tax of exactly the kind of leader we're looking for so that doesn't mean that we can't add a sentence that says I'm trying to think of where you because to me when we go

042through those 10 points that's a lot and there's so much in there that my question would be which part of that do you want to then pull into paragraph one um if what you're saying is we want to pull in a statement that says you know Asheville City schools has a history of investing in its students and has numerous successful programs we seek uh a superintendent who will continue to nurture those programs and bring their own ideas I I mean I just don't know um I'm just like playing around with that but it the first paragraph to me was intentionally Broad and more about getting somebody because the way the first paragraph originally was was totally just like not um yeah I was just trying to bring some excitement to it but that I can

043we can add whatever you want it's a solid first paragraph and we all agreed to it so yeah I'm good I think just as we listen to more and more comments I really was only thinking did we reorganize a bit to bring some of the we need somebody who's willing to come and do the hard work that needs to be done okay and so is there a place in the first paragraph to just acknowledge that we have sure I'm I'm open to input here I'm only telling you I'm just processing what I'm hearing that maybe we haven't LED with what we want to lead with but if nobody else really feels that way and they like the first paragraph we can keep on I'm I'm playing I don't know does anybody else have could I

044respectfully ask where do we name the reality that we we need a leader that can serve and Center black and brown students that's what we don't do that I that's not where we've been successful and where do we name that that is someone we need a leader who has experience and devotion to centering and serving black and brown students is my question and that we have many successful programs and those aren't our our students of color not centered in those programs it's a question that I think to me when we look at this it's a clear omission but um I don't want to say the wrong thing but I do want to say this is that we need somebody here and you need to put it out there we need somebody to close the gap

045the Gap is getting wider we need somebody to close the gap if they can come in here we can all sit down and decide because of the programs that have showed that the children are making progress we need for that person to come in and say okay give that program a chance for the ones that's just starting into school the ones that's gotten to feel sixth and seventh grade you know we have it all I don't understand why we're here I guess I do too but we have it all we're just not taking advantage of it if we do go out in the community if you guys go out into the community and look at the different programs that's into the program it's right here up under your nose is right here all we need

046is some money to fund is not that much to fund these programs to start these kids with Jump Start programs into different developments so nobody can't say we don't have a book we don't have money to fund a bus or a bus driver you can just go down the street and say uh Eleanor come on it's nine o'clock it's time for you to come up is here is here all we do we need a we need a superintendent that we can tell kind of what to do right right I mean I think that if I may I think that's about holding a superintendent accountable I don't see where it's up there so I will say in response to you and I'll just say this in response to Copeland's comment and also for me the language

047about every student and centering the needs of every student each and every student was that language if we want to be more explicit and use black and brown or you know I didn't do that and we certainly can but when I the the language and I this is just a proposal so that's why we're here sorry Miss Earl what do you want to say because I feel like I'm I I interrupted you I just want to say okay you saying that um you don't want to put this out to the superintendent that black and brown students but that's where we are when you put it out that we the Gap we the one that's widening the Gap yeah the black and brown students so I don't know how you're going to do it or how

048you're going to see it but uh we want to work with everybody all the children it's right but specifically when you say when when they start talking about closing the Gap it's our kids that they say this right and if that's if if anybody in this room or you know if enough of us are reading this and not seeing that then we need to add it okay I got a question so um but I will say that that's fine I I'm certainly I don't think anyone is here saying we don't want to add that language we're happy to add that language it's just a question of of identifying where and how we say it um would you be happy if there'll be a question to that superintendent uh to that person how they can close

049that Gap according to black and brown students instead of putting it out there could it be that question for that superintendent and then we can use that answer for that superintendent to make sure they are the right one to come on board we'll hold him accountable we'll ask that question I would definitely ask it myself if I need to okay so Jesse I 100 agree with that and I think we should ask the question what seems clear to me and I am focused on the first paragraph is this is a chance to say really clearly what we want and I've now decided I want to articulate it this way we do have a problem we have a large opportunity Gap and we might as well say that in the first paragraph so that nobody can

050come here and be surprised by that well the whole nation has that problem the whole nation everybody every state has that issue but in order to not put it out there so people be afraid if they don't close it they're going to get fired right we can ask that question to that individual but but we can ask it to that individual once they once they are been interviewed because that is a question that is happening in every state you know we're not the only state to have that issue you know and but don't you think it might just delay or we might not get that right person because they feel that if they don't close that Gap that people would think different from them but if we ask that question why he's there Martha okay

051yes thank you thank you thank you thank you so much um so just to follow up with what Copeland and Miss Earl was saying I would like to propose that when we have spots that say hard challenge successful that we take a moment and think about what are we really trying to say when we're saying those words because it seems like we keep dancing around it a little bit and so that's the piece that I think it's a little tricky that if we dance around the words then we don't know specifically what it is that we are looking for and so wherever we put black and brown that's the barrier that's the challenge that's the obstacle that's the things that we are dancing around and so we want every student at Asheville City Schools to

052grow and Thrive centering black and brown students because that's the issue if we were in a different District it would be centering economically disadvantaged centering ESL centering LGBT whatever the the barrier is that's what we would be centering and I just want to invite all of us and especially our leadership to just every time we hear the word challenge obstacle hard whatever to think what exactly is it that we're trying to say and then let's get to it because that's that's where the that's where the dancing gets us in trouble and we've we dance a lot just to to go off of what you were saying Martha was I I wonder if where the the word success appears throughout this might might be a great opportunity for us to address that explicitly [Music] women's Earl

053saying for every student to grow right and we say Miss Earl what color of student are you talking about right we're not going to do that directly and we will so which of the students are thriving and growing in which are the students that are not let's just be really crispy with that because that that will give us that intentionality to really be intentional about what it is that we're asking for and I think it's really important okay if that's the case let's put it in the first sentence it put in the first sentence if that's what we have to do so and then add whatever necessarily because if if somebody if somebody's going to do something and they want to be here they're going to look at that first sentence that is what they're

054going to read first so if we add that to their first sentence of black and brown students it's our challenge in this District then they will understand what we are trying to go up against what they are going up against does that make sense in um I hear you I I would not I mean personally I I want to attract as many candidates as we can and then we also describe honestly what we are going to ask them to do and what our challenges are so I don't know that I want to open with that but I agree that if this description or job announcement is not communicating that you know like I said for me the the language for example that we need we seek a superintendent who shares with their team the conviction

055that every student is capable of success that is the key right to to but but if we want to use different language to make it explicit then we can I think I like what Rebecca just added um so I've opened to suggestions and I think um I guess I guess what I'd like to do is suggest that give us ideas give us specific language that you think needs to be added to this to help us and understanding this is only a job announcement it is not the time when we're holding somebody accountable this is hopefully a document that will entice a really strong leader to this District who is committed to our kind of District specifically a small school district that has an opportunity Gap challenge that we need to address so it sounds to

056me like we've got we've got this sentence we're looking for a superintendent who has the skills and experience to Marshall resources wisely and creatively in the service of every educator and every student and as copen has said as as Mr Ellis said as Marta said that's where we as a district for a long time have kind of danced around what are we trying to say so is there something that we can and Jesse not to um discount your desire to put that in the first sentence but if it's in the first paragraph I think that's that's critical so is it something where we change every edgy every educator and every student or do we say still say every educator and every student comma specifically or deliberately or whatever that word is uh Martez has modeled

057for us before that when we say that this is a place to clarify what and what we mean is to Center and uplift our black and brown students it's not that we don't uplift all students but that in our context so it could be not to replace but to clarify I I would like to suggest that in the last sentence of the first paragraph where it currently reads we are looking for a bold servant leader that we add at that point who is dedicated to anti-bias anti-racist education and is comfortable in the framework of equity specifically for black and brown students in our district I like that a lot Liza especially and I quietly added that conversely after we name our resources conversely the district has a significant race-based opportunity Gap to address so that

058it's it's groundwork it's creating cohesion in our message when we say what we're looking for so I didn't want that to go I wasn't trying to slide that in but I like then the directness of what you just said as a closing nice why is it you mind saying it again I know Amy's typing it in just make sure we get it I'm not sure I'm going to say it exactly I just did um just look at what I typed tell me if that's what you said or not or framework and is dedicated to equity for black and brown students specific Ally and I like to add so that we're consistent because every lens is different and we're on a walk together where we in this community are directly impacted and we know what we

059mean and so I think we need to I'm agreeing with you uh Liza right there but I think we need to say equity for all centering our black and brown kids because that has been our mission um at the district Equity level saying we're not trying to leave anyone out but we are going to Center this group of kids because they're directly impacted so I'd like to have that added to it are you doing all the edits or I got Rebecca's permission on her sentence to make it consistent and not the passive voice so but you tell me when you're ready to go there oh yeah go ahead Converse lead the district I don't know if the word is struggles but the district struggles with a significant race-based opportunity Gap somehow we need a verb

060in there that's not has gotcha thank you um I struggles I don't know let's let's not do start struggles um but at faces I think Rebecca you might have put that or is there another verb that we can choose this or a must um seeks to address okay seeks to address a significant race-based opportunity Gap now the only issue with that last sentence I'm going to say that now two things one I added and you can tell me if this is okay or not um we are looking for a superintendent who has the skills and experience to Marshall resources wisely and creatively in the service of every educator and every student centering our black and brown students and then I said who have not adequately been served but maybe we want to change take that

061out okay and then the last sentence though that if it's going to be for I don't I'm not loving the word framework because I don't know what that means in that context I could do um I'm trying I'm thinking about here if the word values could come in who values values or education it's gonna have to be there needs to be an A or something anyway for a bold student leader committed to anti-racist anti-bias what I said leadership but I don't know if that's the right word and framework I get framework but it would have to be a and anti-vias anti-racist anti-bias framework practices okay good servant leader committed to anti-racist anti-bias practices and then I'm going to put a period and I'm just a goober and say we like look forward to meeting you

062if you guys don't like that we can take that out you mean her exclamation point I know yeah just take take that part out please okay anti-bias anti-racist practices yes what was my other piece and Eliza you after that you had um other language about Equity um do we want I mean Tanya per se reminds me often that the word Equity is thrown around thrown around and used as a buzzword um and so we can talk the word Equity all the time but not actually practice it so but I also recognize that we as a district are focused on how we operate in a more Equitable way for our black around students so do we want the word equity in that first paragraph because it is that first paragraph or are we worried that it's

063just a buzzword and and what we've said is is monsterably Equitable versus using the word itself and that's that's why I wanted to include anti-biased anti-racist specifically because I acknowledge that Equity is a buzzword and you know anybody can walk into an interview and say Equity all day long and they're not actually addressing what the specific issue is in our district as Marta said it is black and brown students who have been underserved and we need wait we need to state that I have a question yes ma'am is it legal I'm sorry is what part legal is it legal to go back and and look at the um superintendent of previous superintendent and what we asked them and what we said to them and that job description is available from what we had before that's

064extremely different from this one I will say that it doesn't look much like this job description it's completely different which one I I mean are you talking about I'm I'm talking about going back let me see we okay Gene Denise Pam Baldwin how far back do you want to go Allen Johnson right we we've been we've been stretching [Applause] I started stretching what everybody put down on the job description of what they you know what did you ask for is it legal so who gonna do the research so there's no I don't believe there would be any legal issue with looking at what was um put in those superintendent announcements or in the applications for that I don't think there would be any legal issue there um I mean you know it would be different

065if we were actually wanting to go back and look at the applications received but just looking at what we put out I don't think would be an issue I know our firm I believe has some of these but I don't think we have them going back as far as other than us yeah I think it's um it's just a feasibility but miss Earl is your question that they weren't done particularly well because of the candidates they attracted I think I'm my question is that um I just want to know what the job description was and then Did they perform the job description like they said they was because all the time we've been trying to close the achievement Gap and is it one word in there or two words in there that we might have

066in there that while we can't uh having close achievement Gap you understand I think you understand do you understand right I guess I'm I'm acknowledging that I just want to say that there's a bit of if we're going to get this out in the near future it would take a while to go back and look at all those applications and right I mean not the applications the announcements you don't need to do all of them I I mean I'm just confused and I'm sorry it sounds like we've had applications not applications announcements in the past like this they were different Amy was saying she wrote this one new this is not what we've used before and I'm hearing you say in the past we've maybe gotten the wrong candidate because they didn't do what they

067were supposed to do well I'm saying that I hope that we're basically not using the same words in these in this paragraph for these that we used backed and I don't think we are right entirely different it's entirely different this is a different and very differently focused announcement that doesn't mean that I mean it just is very different I can only tell you what it was the last time because that's the one I looked at and it's completely different this first paragraph didn't exist and we the the detailed ones were much shorter and different okay just let me add one question and then yeah sure how did you approach the last one of how we're gonna how we were going to achieve closing the uh Gap at the first paragraph or was it in there

068that we're going to achieve we close the gap by doing so and so and so and so is that I mean it wasn't anything in there about closing the achievement the only thing that I recall that was in there miss Earl was some language about the we want to to serve the mission of Excellence with equity that was in there but there was none of the very specific language that we've included in this one clothes okay thank you thank you thank you so I'm going to add this piece to Liza's Point um I think it's really important that we all have the same understanding right of what Equity means Equity refers to fair and just practices and policies that ensure all campus community members can oops thrive don't lose it Equity is different from equality

069in that equality implies treating everyone as if their experiences are exactly the same being Equitable means acknowledging and addressing structural inequalities I say inequities historic and current that Advantage some and disadvantage others equal treatment results in equity only all in caps if everyone starts with equal access to the opportunity that way we can't say that it's this it's for everyone and again centering here because of what is pressing thank you Martha um I'd like to just also appreciate what you brought up and I remembered we did receive the 2019 you shared it with us and I've scanned it and the only reference to the word Equity is in quotations that we ensure Excellence with equity for all students as a tagline and otherwise references to anti-racism or Equity are missing entirely from the last superintendent

070announcement foreign so how are we feeling about this first paragraph the workshop that we're doing one sentence that starts with an and not start with an and thank you I disagree I I also too as a writer sometimes however if you feel if you feel strongly about it I I change it you could say in addition um I can say additionally but I think and is punchier and and uh perfectly grammatically appropriate but I will say additionally because I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable thank you I would like to I need to you change some things in the conversely the district seeks to address a significant race-based opportunity Gap I feel like it the sentence that was there that Rebecca put in originally was actually stronger um it just it it reads funny to

071me I have an idea what if we did because I think the concern was the passive voice what if we say said um a significant conversely a significant race-based opportunity Gap exists within Asheville City Schools that's better that's returning to the passive voice technically it is the best of voice if we're going to be all in all right unless you're here but I I think it actually works but it does exist I mean that's not passive that's yeah I think it's I go ahead the the language to say it exists the implication is who knows how it got here you know like that's what writing in the passive voice opens you up to I like the action yeah but you say the district seeks to address a significant race-based opportunity Gap that doesn't tell you

072when it happened either but it shows the it just says it's there it doesn't say anything else I think saying that we seek to address it shows the action that we value versus saying it exists indicates it's here what if we said something as bold as conversely our district has not has I had an idea it just left me but essentially conversely Asheville City schools has not served all of its students well we seek no okay that's too much all right I mean we was dancing around the issue yeah I I think that I was going to go to the next by saying that we do have a race-based opportunity Gap that is that is that is free that's that's bold that's what it is it's not hiding anything I was gonna I was gonna

073follow with that language but I just I mean I think that and if you're wanting to get more if you wanted to throw more of a punch in it conversely the district seeks a superintendent who is going to address our significant race-based opportunity Gap and that could be combined with the the next sentence you could take out the we are looking for a superintendent or whatever you could you could word it that way but I mean if you're gonna if we're gonna throw some punches let's throw a punch all right we're looking for a superintendent to miss Earl's point that is going to address our race-based opportunity Gap we're not trying to beat around the bush on this one um I I think that then we should take out the sentence well so George I

074think that sentence if it's going to come should come after centering our black and brown students we seek a superintendent who uh who has the skills and experience and dedication to it I don't know what the heck but anyway I I think that all right you want to go ahead and oh you want me to write it yeah fewer minutes I think beginning it with seeking to address a significant race-based opportunity Gap and then going on to say they need the skills and they need the experience to martial resources wisely and creatively centering our black and brown students I think that that it gives an overview and then it it explicitly names the things some of the things that need to be done does that does that make sense I think I'd miss the first

075part of what you said so what would your do you Eliza before you before you do it again because I don't want to miss it either I realized to James's point that the conversely was sensical when it was compared to the list of assets right exactly now it's action oriented so it's no longer a list like I think when I wrote it conversely came to mind because we just listed these assets conversely while we have these assets we have a challenge we have it it's ours and so maybe there is something if we want to hold that like hey here's all these things we have and we have this challenge to face or we just restructure and do away with conversely and drop it and move on to this next element of what we're looking

076for I really like naming it the way you did I like naming conversely and it has to be that it's ours and we have it right that it's you know conversely uh we say we enjoy the assets the district is hindered by I don't I mean again that's not it'd be we face I mean we the the district faces conversely the conversely the district faces a cons uh we enjoy one and we're I mean that's the word we use that let's try it conversely the district faces a significant race-based opportunity Gap we are looking for a superintendent who has a skills and experience to martial resources wisely and creatively in the service of every educator and every student centering our black and brown students oh yeah happy I don't think that um the school system

077as a whole should be thrown under well I think they're kind of like being thrown on under the bus they worked with what they had to work with everybody knew what the problem was but nobody was bold enough to step out there and see it everybody know that early learning is the key basically all we need like I keep saying is to get these kids of color in these early Jump Start programs in the community once you get behind you know these kids that are a grade or level above our kids they went to the little churches or to the little um private three and five-year-olds so and their mothers and things taught them ABC's and one two threes stepped in she went to church to the little churches from eight o'clock to two o'clock

078so she learned what a was so when we went in school the teachers teaching ABCs the first six weeks she knew hers I didn't know mine once you get behind you are behind you got to start early and everybody knows that you see what Hendersonville doing they gave them all that money for Pre-K we know what the problem is you got to start earning like you for hand the snow you smiling but it keeps you going because you go to the schools like I say Miss wasn't that I forgotten Miss Kane and I we worked together and brought up a lot of kids did we not and miss we worked together and we brought up a lot of kids and I'm working with her to bring up Miss yeah to bring them up if you

079got a good after school program not an after-school program that's so concerned about are we going to take a field trip or they'll do this it's not about that it's all about academics bringing these kids up to where they need to be thank you sir Pappy can you hear me okay is it still working okay thank you very much for this opportunity um if we're going to name what's going on what's been going on absolutely everything that Mr Earl said as far as closing the Pre-K Gap in order to close our testing achievement and opportunity gaps is absolutely key we did the prior board the prior superintendent hire the board sought out somebody with experience and data for closing the achievement Gap and that uh successful candidate for the position had a proven track record

080of closing the testing gaps achievement gaps opportunity gaps had a track record in a district with 20 percent free and reduced lunch on average in our district we're north of 40 percent free and reduced lunch numbers for the district and that makes a significant District difference three years ago at the board retreat Ian Nelson who was director of testing and accountability pointed out to the board the success story of the fourth grade cohort from the previous year at Isaac Dixon Elementary and said there was no racial achievement gap for that grade that grade just out of luck was 20 percent free and reduced lunch my kids grade one year old or same school and this is four classrooms was 50 percent free and reduced lunch we need to be able to say or you folks

081need to and to analyze when you're looking at the data on the track record are we hiring somebody who has experience closing the gap in a district that has 40 percent or more free and reduced lunch because the that poverty piece along with racial uh gaps and gaps in early childhood education all of that is is part of the same piece we know how to eliminate the testing gaps in our classrooms and our grades if we've got 20 percent free and reduced lunch where we struggle is when we've got classrooms and grades that are higher than 50 percent for in reduced lunch thank you Pepe um yeah again I appreciate both comments and I think that does Focus this as we get into the interview process making sure we're asking their questions and as we

082talked about in our board retreat making sure they're also asking questions of the district where the superintendent will be coming from so these are these are great things as we've moved forward um regarding this announcement that first paragraph we're feeling confident with kind of um James you're feeling good about yeah um second paragraph We you know again we're going to have to discuss that date but other than that we felt we feel good about that second paragraph okay I did want to point out one thing at the beginning of the third paragraph the mission of Asheville City school was City Board of Education it actually is the bishop of the district correct so do we want to say Board of Education or just say the bishop of Asheville City Schools is to create it should

083say Asheville City Schools that's what I thought okay thank you um I also want to be conscious of um of this need to like push through and recognizing that we have a tight timeline to get this out I also want to give space for these comments that are coming in so I just want to throw it out to the board like like how much more time do we want to spend on these 10 items and then that final paragraph or keep in mind that we also want to discuss the application that's going to have some questions and um I mean you know we take the time that we need but it takes the time we take but also want to throw that out I personally I would I would just and I I appreciate what

084you were saying Jesse earlier way earlier when we were talking about the 10. um I I like this because again having then did the last search um not having these on there was actually might have heard of some um so we've already we've laid out what we're looking for we've been very intentional about it I agree that a person who you know success is going to be determined by that you know that individual or you know whatever we find out about them from their past but I like the 10 and the way they are uh that last paragraph about where Asheville is located um I I've got some issues with some of the things in there because it's James do you mind before we leave because I did make an addition while we were talking

085and I feel the need to no you're good point it out to everybody um and I want to just offer up that a number nine you know this to March's point the word challenges was there so I added including racism and I'm curious about poverty like if these are the multi-layered factors that are need to be addressed or at a minimum though we've teed ourselves up to say what challenge are we talking about in our district we're talking about race and how it impacts the opportunities that children have in their lives but I did add that would it not also include economics than if you're going to get that if you're going to get like that with it yeah would it not include you said so it says demonstrated leadership in maintaining safe orderly and

086nurturing School environments that uplift students who experience multiple challenges including racism um uh yeah I mean we could put poverty there um are you wanting to name more than one challenge what about economic inequities so instead of experience multiple challenges including racism and economic inequity that works because that's uh yeah as your scribe and go ahead Rebecca I appreciate you asking about the is it poverty is it whatever I have the stats and I'll be happy to share them with you and our Gap is about race and it is not about economically disadvantaged students or I would have that data to show you so I'm not saying that we don't have students that are experiencing poverty it's not our Gap they're still proficient and the second is students with disabilities and if we break it

087down it's still about race so is it about race or is it about students with that disabilities as well it is that's the second one and if you look at our numbers many are students of color gotcha thank you for the question so are you going to put that yeah I mean I think I I was I was thinking at one point saying that I've left students who experience racism comma you know and putting the law the quote-unquote laundry list of um of what our students face I mean we can include homophobia we can include lots of things but I but um and I think those things are important extremely important so I so I feel like saying experience multiple challenges comma including racism doesn't preclude any of the other things that our students face

088like transphobia like homophobia like sexism you know those kinds of things so um so I'm yeah I like I like this comma including racism thank you any other thoughts about the the list of 10. okay so then we move down to the final I'll say the final two paragraphs and I'm going to go ahead and just space them into a separate page so we can look at them together um so we've got this description of Asheville um and James you want to speak to your concerns about it sorry I just was looking over it um you know there's uh so it says located in the scenic Blue Ridge Mountains of West North Carolina the Asheville the city of Asheville is widely known as one of the most vibrant cities in America home to more than

08990 000 residents Asheville continues to grow as it attracts new residents with this thriving local economy and high quality of life uh Asheville regularly receives National accolades as one of the best cities to live in work in and visit um I don't think we need to be the Chamber of Commerce in this and if we're going to be honest about other parts of this job description we need to be obvious honest in this part as well um yes you know I I uh I like the bottom part of that you put in about the reparations commit uh commission um I just think that we don't need to sell Asheville um we can if if you want to honestly I think leaving the first city the first sentence is is fine um maybe add in their

090home to more than 90 000 residents but if you don't know where Asheville is and you don't know anything about Asheville then you're not going to come here you this is one of the best marketed cities in the country and probably in the world to be honest with you there there's not I don't I don't think we need to sell it because right now we're not the best city to live in in North Carolina all right we're the most expensive city to live in in North Carolina right now this is I don't want to sugarcoat it and you know not that I have anything against our convention and visitors bureau or chamber but um I don't think we need to sell this town for itself I mean we can be very basic in that description

091again I like what you added that Asheville is a national leader in efforts to redress institutional racism with the groundbreaking work of the reparations commission I think that's that's awesome uh I also like the other one that you put at the bottom where while Asheville is a highly desirable place to live and offers much to us residents its popularity is Christina created significant economic and cultural challenges I that's so I'd I would like to just you know take out a bunch of the fluff at the beginning and um maybe put that last paragraph in there at the top so sorry did you say the top no not the very very top but I'm talking about at that you know located paragraph yeah yeah that could all be in that one just again there's there's a

092lot of fluff in there and James yes I'm found along but not wanting to be the scripter but I'm hearing you say and I agree we could take out the second sentence that starts with home to more right well we could the third and the fourth is already crossed off we can throw in the universities yes I only want to say I like the sentence about the reparations commissions I just think it then feels awkward to end with and we have cultural like that last sentence I'm not don't have a problem with it but it's awkward to me where it is no gotcha I'm only saying move it or delete it and then I don't mind combining those two paragraphs either yeah I was thinking just combining those two paragraphs in there so you almost

093feel like we can go sentence by sentence and just move them around um located in the scenic Blue Ridge Mountains of Western North Carolina the city of Asheville is widely known as one of the most vibrant cities in America while Asheville is a highly desirable place to live and offers much to his residents its popularity has created significant economic and cultural challenges in this environment of increasing wealth for some and greater economic struggle for others Asheville City Schools must work harder to educate all of our students who know let's see so and honestly I don't think we need to worry about again Asheville is home to the University of North Carolina Asheville a B Tech we don't have to do that again you you know enough about this city to know that there are several

094The Higher Learning institutions within a half hour drive um or you can Google it or you can Google it or you can Google it yes there are you what or you can Google it right the Google's is there so do you want to or the part the last sentence Asheville also offers many opportunities for cultural and recreational enrichment um do you want to move that up do you want to keep that I mean I I'm fine with this I don't agree exactly but I'm if if uh I mean I don't know that everybody knows what Asheville is like across the country yes it's well marketed but there may be education leaders who don't that's okay do you but do you want to keep that sentence and just move it up or do we want to

095Omit that sentence because I don't have a strong feeling really I vote for omitting it can you take out that the so you want to take that out completely can you take that part out yes yeah the crossed out part I can take that out or can you I just want to see what it does I know what it does but so could we take the that the second paragraph put it start that as a as the second sentence really right just deciding where to put this it may be worthwhile the the originally the paragraph Was a list of assets for better or worse they did sound like the chambers version of the assets and if we don't need to list the assets I'm fine with removing the asset of the reparations commission people can

096Google that too but I I didn't I wanted that to be the asset we were listing not the James Beard award-winning restaurants and so but James is just going further and I'm I mean we could just have work this is where we're located and we're known as a vibrant City that's true and here's what we really want you to know while it's a highly desirable place to live and it offers much to its residents I mean I think that might be it's one paragraph if you delete the what's in yellow and just move it up I have to say though that I mean then you have a paragraph that focuses more on our detriments than our assets which I am concerned about I mean you now have a paragraph that has one sentence of good

097stuff and and you know well so we say it's a good place to live and then we're like oh but and I think if you're gonna have the butt you need to give them a little more reason to want to be here well there will be a but yeah because people would not be able to people gonna do their homework when they think about coming here to work for Asheville City Schools they are probably already Googling it they probably already figuring out if they can't afford it they're probably figuring out how much they can afford which neighborhood they living in and everything else just to be in Asheville City Schools that's what they're doing right now so a lot of this you're right we can omit because it's just like are they really going to

098read it and I mean does it really make a difference because they are going to do their homework before they come here and our job is to let them know what we need in Asheville City school you know all of these other stuff is probably not necessarily because their biggest our biggest concern to them is can you come here with your leadership skills put out brown and black kids at the educational level that we are asking for you to do other than that do we really care about all this other stuff I think you want to I think personally having written and read a lot of job descriptions it's it's one you want to entice them to do the Google part and maybe the fact is that we don't have to do that because we're

099Asheville and then if that's you know that's that's fine but what I would not want is a paragraph that focuses more on what is wrong with Asheville than what is right with Asheville right what about well we got bears and I I I see what you're saying Amy I I get it um so instead of while Asheville is a highly desirable place to live and blah blah blah and so you asking economic cultural challenges we don't necessarily need to have that part I mean we can just say um why don't we just omit all of it and end with the successful candidate we'll be able to provide decisive leadership in an environment it's what I'm hearing is nobody really wants to talk about the city of Asheville one thing that I'm sorry I mean it's

100not nothing against us I'm good with that I really you know I don't before before we do that the one piece that I would like to hold for a second and I'm was it Jesse close your ears I'm wondering if it's number 11. is in this environment of increasing wealth for some and greater economic struggle for others ACS must work harder to educate all of our students equally well the naming of that is that something we're okay just that this isn't a condition of our community we're losing middle class families to the cost of living here right but Rebecca this person that's coming in is not going to be a middle-class person to be quite Frank this statement has to do about educating students not about their ability to live in a neighborhood this that's

101part of it is about students and if it's already represented in the rest of the document that's fine I guess but that piece wasn't about the livability of Asheville it was about students yeah I take that I take that yeah I hear that Rebecca and you're right about that I do think though that if we're really trying to say it's not poverty that's our issue it's race then I'm not sure that that sentence serves as any particular purpose and I might just omit all of this and end with that last sentence and that's kind of a nice way to end the job description I would agree with that Amy do you mind can you take all that out and just like cut it make sure that we don't lose it but just see what it

102looks like docs thing controls control x x I'm sorry I'm I'm a word oh man I'm not proficient in this yet I'm gonna get there though a bunch of stuff on the way yeah so I'm gonna move this back up hey guys um just for clarification so this announcement is going out to like everybody going out to the people who are right applying right it goes out to search firms it goes out to job boards it goes out to yeah yeah to places where superintendents look for job openings gotcha yes so I'm in agreement that that flood stuff needs to come out just looking at as a business owner like my light bulb has just like been going off um I guess like you guys have like in your mind like who you want to

103Target who is your as a you know small business who's my customer and so they can Google all that stuff that you guys wanted to x out like and then like the key points um a lot of the stuff that we were talking about I feel like that's more as like the interview process a lot of those intimate questions about the gaps and all that stuff if I'm looking for if I'm looking for a superintendent position like what do you want what do you need like all that plus stuff like I can do that on my own we just need to be clear make a plan execute it and in the process be accountable of what we're looking for that's it thank you what's that Amy I think you took out too much in your

104control X I think I have no idea I I thought that I thought that we I thought that you were saying that we had you were going to keep the located in blah blah blah okay so we were taking all of that okay I just wanted to make sure I thought I heard that differently all right okay so I'm going back to control X thank you or you can hit undo okay I can do that yes all right I I just I wonder about number nine um you know I think about like the the number of free and reduced lunch students as Pepe brought up earlier and I think about our mckinney-vento students and I think that that's that is an important part of naming and acknowledging the systemic racism [Music] that we are intending

105to confront and I just I wonder if that should be named at some point McKinney vento or systemic racism McKinney vento and free and reduced lunch as as a part of systemic racism just naming some of the specific issues in addition to the opportunity Gap yeah that was just the one that I was looking at but just you know thinking about our overall discussion about I'm struggling to figure out and to me at least Eliza I feel like that's um as a job description I'm trying to I feel like that's getting really granular yeah if it's encompassed within racism and we know that and and we have identified racism as the core of the opportunity Gap and not poverty specifically though we know that within institutional racism systemic racism poverty is part of it because

106racism creates poverty and anyway but I don't know that's kind of my thinking about that yeah I hear that too um and you know maybe it is a conversation that comes up as part of an interview but I do I it feels important to me to name those and I appreciate you naming them and and that they've spoken into the room you know I think it's um I would agree with Amy that you know we can we can get really granular on this and and I don't know if we need to with just an announcement but I also appreciate you speaking into the room because I think it means that we you know as a board we're trying to work with this idea of like what do we put in the parking lot what do

107we make sure shows up in work sessions down the road that we're not just glossing over and moving past um and so I'm I'm making that note right now to make sure that it is part of what we're talking about moving forward yeah so are we good how we doing yeah I think we're there okay I think we're there what's that Jesse yeah great so thank you y'all I mean I think this is this is different than usually than other boards might do it um but I think it's important that we were all in this together to create this I think it's really valuable so thank you do we have a date for the replacement is February 10th did you mention there was a comment on the February 10th date on the application I made

108that up oh it's made I totally made that date up it's got nothing to do with anything it was it's a placeholder yeah the placeholder right yeah it's a place to order and it's it's something we we will start to discuss in terms of just the the time frame um which we can do now because it's a little less in the weeds um although we also importantly have to get the application ready so you want to go to application I would propose that we go to the application next I know that we've just spent a lot of time workshopping this and that's a we've put our brains to the test and thank you for um the community out there providing your input and for the work here um the application that I think is you

109know equally vital so um so if we're ready to move to that let's go ahead and pull up that application questions that I would add somewhere I had a thought about where um thinking about our particular school system and one would be giving the applic it can be a very open-ended question but giving the applicant an opportunity to talk about their experience with um opportunity Gap or centering black and brown students I'm open to how we talk about that but making that a question and the second thing that I thought we should add because I think it would be useful is if anybody had experience with the community school model those were the two things that as I read this I thought I'd like to know that Sarah would you repeat the second one and

110and if and I had trouble I'm sometimes having trouble hearing you George and I know because we're mumblers yes thank you that's much yeah if you could repeat that second one um the if they have if the candidate has any experience with the community school model so I think you know that this application we've got a lot of different items um to fill out there's a section I believe it's on page three or four additional information that's just yes or no and so Sarah I think we can add to those yes or no questions um have you I mean some of them are pretty hard-hitting have you ever been convicted or pleaded no contest to a criminal offense but somewhere over there we can put do you have George you have to you have two

111sections there you've got your additional information yes or no then you have the additional information again true that has the three where they can be more concise in those responses why not put those there or add add what you were saying Community School can totally be yes or no I just think okay interview people we would know yes or no but for your first one that you were saying I was going to say that is not yes make that number four maybe well it's um if you look at two right is it I mean what we need to do is get a little bit more explicit I think about what we mean when we say equity in schools and so instead of having two with that kind of broader language that's not helpful we need

112to come up with a question that is talking about centering black and brown students and opportunity gaps okay I think you know so thank you James for mentioning that yeah we have two sections both called additional information which we'll need to Ward Smith that um I think as we look at these three questions as are now written um remembering that we are going to have an opportunity to ask really deep questions in an interview and so what are the what are the broad I don't that's not quite the word I'm looking for but what are those first questions we want answers to right away from an applicant so those that's the thing I'd like us to consider as we're looking at these questions can I ask where this application came from yes I'm sorry chairman

113I had some difficulty getting the technology to cooperate where exactly are you so I can page three uh we're actually on page four thank you I'm sorry about that um I'm fairly certain this was developed by our office and it looks I'm I'm not certain it's the exact same application but it does look substantially similar to application used in a previous search I I was just curious yes that's it is I mean we've made small small adjustments okay it is basically last the last search application so April if you'll keep scrolling down sir I'm trying we're having I'm having a little bit of issues we took get back down let me try again something I think the document is tired and trying my best I don't know why and I'm not able to I'm having

114trouble typing on this one so I guess I don't know if I'm I have permission to do that okay okay um it says request edit ah there we go thank you Liza so do we want to craft a question right now or um this does this go out with the announcement does it go out at the same time yes okay so we need to get this done and just to for purposes of focusing us I I feel like the first however many pages I don't think any of us have any trouble with I mean they're basic employment things and so it really does seem like all we're talking about is revising one of those three I mean just to say I think that's all we're really saying right yeah I agree I think we just

115need some language for the question that you suggested which I think yes or no question well no I think this the first one I think the second question that we have on the current application should be substituted with a question that's more specific and because I can't write on this thing right now I'm having trouble like in my brain doing anything because that's how I communicate but yeah I'm working on it would an effective question might be um in in what ways could you could you address the the inequities in play in our district can Eliza I I'm as an application question because it may be it may be that it's two questions I'd be curious to know what their experience in other places was and then if I mean this question that we have

116right now is what would you do to further our mission I guess I'm just wondering do we care about that or do we want to know what they've done in the like are we looking backward at what they've actually done or do we care about how they're going to help us and maybe that again it's a different question I think it could be a two-part question you know in in what ways are you have you been prepared right um oh go ahead so no no go ahead um I have I'm do you have experience addressing a race-based opportunity guest if so specifically what measures did you take or advocate for they successful why or why not okay I'm gonna just play devil's advocate here it's an application I just feel like you could have the

117most open-ended question please describe your experience with however you phrase that and then end it let them say whatever they want then when we interview them like does that make sense Amy I don't it does but if they don't have experience with that maybe that means they don't get to have an answer and maybe that means they're not a candidate but I would leave open the possibility that they don't have experience but they have ideas yeah and so I think maybe it would be you know describe your experience addressing um race-based opportunity gaps in your prior positions educational positions um and I think we should say besides just describe what was you know how what what it was your how it you know were they successful or give us something about I don't want just

118a description I want an assessment does that make sense Amy can I interject on number three I'm just realizing it says briefly describe your experience or opinion concerning the following and I feel like I just heard you say that we're looking for this person to describe their experience and if they don't have it maybe their opinion so could it be a bullet under this about addressing race-based opportunity gaps and it's that'd be super concise but it would give them the opportunity to describe experience and if they don't have it say whatever they feel could be compelling that works for me yeah and just take out the second question yeah yeah that works for me I I'm just I'm thinking about like the some of the questionnaires that we received as school board candidates and how

119we were invited to to share our positions on you know something open-ended like you know what challenges need to be addressed and I'm thinking to to kind of allow a candidate to to do their homework and you know not name it as you know systemic racism or an opportunity Gap but like what what do you what have you heard are the challenges and how would you address them I'm totally just thinking out loud and that's not a fully no and I hear that because I mean we've they're looking at an announcement as well where we've named it very explicitly if they can't make that connection exactly right and I also feel like we have to trust ourselves as a board that we can spot BS yeah right and so if we're just saying describe and

120they're going off on some crazy tangent I mean if we've got to be able to recognize wait a minute they this person doesn't know what we're asking and what they're talking about I mean is that is that kind of what you're saying yeah bullet could be an invitation to describe the challenges and the opportunities of addressing a race-based opportunity Gap sorry that stinks but like the you know to say like reflect on there are assets to be built upon in doing this work and that is an invitation to think of it that way too but that wasn't ultimately where you were going but so so one word that Dr Cosby used to put in my ears you know share your experience and results just throwing it out there Preamble The briefly describe your experience comma

121results or opinion is that what you mean like on all these yep bullet chair we struggle too as a staff to ask some of those Equity questions because some people don't um have um a professional experience they may have a personal and like uh Amy Ray said they may have a solution that we don't want to miss that hasn't that has not been tried and so I lie I just asked Dr Dickerson to share some of those Equity questions that you can ask follow up if they answer or don't give you this light bulb response that you can follow back up so I've asked him to share that with you because that's some of the work that Marta myself and others and Dr deckett have have done and those those can be challenging to ask

122so I've asked him to share that with you um so you can pull out some of those Equity uh questions and opinions and experiences great thank you Amy do you have you should have can you make edits in there now oh can I okay you'll have to go into your email and pull up the pull up the new one no problem I was just looking to see when we intend to okay so we're planning to post this no later than mid-February so we do have I was trying to figure out how much time we have um okay go back yeah I would I would argue that the sooner we get it out the you know yes the ones we're comfortable with because this is the time right yeah I was gonna say I think that

123um our office was under the impression that the announcement and the application were to go out this week if possible okay um just with the March 1st deadline for applications that's you know mid-February would be very late okay so are we in agreement that will strike the second question bye-bye okay and then um you have just a very very slight edit um to the font on the heading I agree just if we can be consistent with the font I I can't edit it um but at the very top of the application where it reads application superintendent of schools it can just be consistent yeah it's Comic Sans right now we don't really know yeah yeah that was before my time we're a school district the Times New Roman right yeah what if we uh what

124if we said briefly describe your experience ideas and opinions does that give like more of an invitation to give ideas we do ideas or opinions but not both and I like Dr Cosby brought up do you think experience encapsulates results I kind of think it does to be honest okay I do myself I think it implies that we want to know the results and hopefully you know along with having a a BS detector that we can also you know read read it from the response all right so we want to add a third bullet point right does this work that doesn't work somebody's gonna have to add that bullet point um and so I heard Tanya say that Dr Dickerson you've got some language for us but we're gonna we're trying to wrap this up

125tonight so I don't Dr Dickerson was the implication that you can support us with questions to use in the interview process oh okay was that word for the interview process as opposed to the application okay yes that's what that's what I was hearing too you can do either or and it goes back to I think what Sarah and Rebecca was talking about it it opens the conversation for you to move to the next phase of the interview process and do a follow-up right um just in case they don't fall under those two and this this is gonna sound weird I I'm not I'm not resting real good on opinion in a professional application I would like for it to say suggestions um and that's just me you make a good point about the uh I

126was I was reading the two bullets to see do I want your opinion on leadership style or I would like to I would like to know a candidate's experience with their leadership style particularly maintaining staff morale I don't necessarily need an opinion on that from them I don't know maybe I'm looking at opinion In a Different Light it just didn't it didn't I was because you know you're asking your you know if I have an opinion on the role of parents and Civic leaders yeah yeah but I don't know if I necessarily would have an opinion on my leadership style speak to the following oh that's good um um I'm sorry what was the word that you suggested besides opinion suggestions and since we're talking about leadership style if we don't agree with that superintendents

127uh leadership opinion um it it just sounds um I don't know but subjective yes I mean personally I think it should be subjective like I do want to know what they think about personally like what is a good leadership style what leadership style do you employ and why um and maybe that's a better way of putting that question um I like what you just said but not the opinion gotcha so I think I'm gonna we don't have to do this in a bulleted list we can also just make separate questions for these instead of trying to make experience and ideas or opinion fit all three we think that does experience fit the role of the parents but maybe not leadership I think you just said it you just say experience and leadership style because those

128are two separate things in their experience they may have experienced you know that how they started out wasn't working and they switch leadership style so I see it as two separate things to Tanya's point so in my understanding that you're offering that we could say briefly describe your experience and leadership style concern the following the role of parents maintaining staff morale like just cut off leadership style particularly in and then we're asking them to describe because I was going to offer up the word Vision right experience and vision but maybe if bullet 2 doesn't start with leadership style we actually want you to tell us about your leadership style as it relates to these topics oh I don't see I would I I would respectfully I don't want to hear about their leadership style with

129respect to each one I want to hear about their leadership style period like it as it relates to how they lead a group of people um what about their demons but I don't know leadership concerning the following I think that's what Amy's saying she's not well leadership if you guys like that I'm I'm totally open to it I'm thinking in other words for example describe your leadership style concerning the role of parents that's a odd you know that first bullet point I don't think marries very well with the word leaders or the phrase leadership style and which is why I'm kind of thinking let's take these out of bullet points and make them separate so that we can tailor what we're asking to each thing can I can I go back to something that Liza

130said a few moments ago where in keeping with just with the bullets as opposed to saying briefly describe what if you just said speak to the following and then you've got your bullet points and that gives them the chance to you've got those three bullets it does give each person it does give a person though a chance I like that I'd like to speak to when you said that it sounded really it resonated because it did it does give the individual that opportunity to expand on all of that and share their opinions if they want to can we say address [Music] I think they were almost getting where we're getting to is to Amy's point that these are these are their own questions yeah but possibly I don't know that they are and I actually

131don't mind the concept of briefly describe your experience and or Vision concerning the following and then have them as because we're we're right us right this is brief please be brief you know like write us a brief answer um about these areas I I'm not thinking we have to go so whole cloth with changing this yeah um but I I I'm with Tanya that the word opinion felt a little wonky here but I I'm offering up the word Vision I like and then wondering if we could try on the bullets from there so would you change would you take out what you said earlier Rebecca take out leadership style particularly in and just put um briefly describe your experience and vision concerning the following maintaining staff morale while meeting the challenges of continuous Improvement I

132would ask Amy to tell me more because I think I want to know what is on her mind about that particular one as it relates to leadership style I think we're looking at leadership style different because you can have five people there from different grade level and I'm going to have a different leadership style for each and every one of them this is style is is you're going to get different answers what we are looking for is how would they manage that particular individual or that particular learning style of that student uh there's just I mean we all got different leaderships down here that's reason why we are probably here because we are different every one of us are different we can have about 10 different questions we can all answer them 10 different ways

133because that is our leadership style and solutions now so if you really want to know a person's leadership style throw a particular question out there and are two questions out there and see which which which a person can choose two different ways of handling that particular style of leadership that's what we want uh when this uh Earl was here she wants someone that can grow someone from kindergarten use that program that she had a preschool that that program that preschool and develop those kids and if one of those kids are falling behind how is he going to use his leadership style to get that person are to fix that program to get that kid up to where everybody else is with that the other thing here is if a kid is in these seventh or

134eighth grade and they are feeling how are we going to get his education up to that level of ninth grade before he reached that ninth grade level so he got two different ways of doing something but you got you're going to have about two different styles of how a person is going to handle this Elementary and how he's going to handle this high school kid I mean because it's stause is different we all get them and if you look it up there's a list of different ways that people can have leadership styles and Leadership traits I Jesse can I jump in yes go ahead in this context we're asking them to limit what they're saying about leadership style to maintaining staff morale while meeting the challenge of they can write anything on a piece of

135paper but when they are sitting here I want to see that person I want to see how you're going to react to that particular question that shows what type of leadership that person is right and what's so what if we I hear what you're saying Jesse and like I think it's less about the leadership style and like how how did this candidate respond to this specific issue and it's like it's it's asking them to I think that what maybe Amy is after is like asking for them to like demonstrate how they maintain staff morale yeah I was actually going to say why don't we just take out leadership style so and just say maintaining so instead of briefly describe your experience and vision and we're concerning the following maintaining staff morale while meeting the challenges

136of continuous Improvement and even when they show up we can ask them and Jessica I'm so sorry do you see a benefit to adding question two or at question three that simply says describe your leadership style or are you thinking more in the applic in the interview itself we that's something we'll be doing uh like Miss Arrow was trying to tell us earlier that everybody is going to write down what they think they want us to know or what they want us to see or what they want us to read I want to look that person right there and ask him particular questions about leadership all right not what he's written we can all can write a paragraph that is that's awesome but I want to see that person I want to see how he's

137going to speak to us as we ask that question about his leadership right okay okay can I check in about now whether it's maintaining staff morale while meeting the challenges of continuous Improvement and there's an implication there about one makes the other difficult but I'm not sure I connect with or understand yeah I agree we appreciate you bringing that up morale maintaining Seth morale I mean because one thing that we that isn't in these bullets but I was hearing a lot of us and Tanya talk about is student growth and teaching and learning and those sorts of things is there to follow up you are reading my mind I think these questions can be asked in the interview the additional information that you're asking for is quantitative and qualitative to support how did you close

138the opportunity Gap how were you successful in building up morale they should have either qualitative or quantitative data to support you having those open-ended discussions during that interview process I think all these other questions will come you need to support and documentation to be able to question them on that that's what I would want to see um going into this because if you don't have qualitative or quantitative then what else can you tell me or show me for some of those 10 or 11 bullet points so would you so what I'm hearing maybe would be instead of just briefly describe your experience and vision it would be briefly describe your experience and vision and provide data or supporting qualitative or quantitative data they all know what that is and attach it so you guys can

139look firsthand to see the artifacts to support what they've done and if it's the opportunity Gap if it's successful for all kids it just needs to be one question a good question and they provide those artifacts for you to be able to go through and see Amy just to notice up at the top it says additional information please provide a concise response with specific examples maybe that's a place to put the data can you say that again Sarah there's a parenthetical that says please provide a concise response is that where we want to say Rebecca's doing it yeah that sounds good Rebecca's doing it awesome I think your question down here as far as the parent Civic leader community and you can add staff there that's a really good question because that hones in on

140all stakeholders in this community and they should be able to provide us with the quantitative order qualitative uh data to support that question I think that's a very good question um and it leaves a lot of room for them to provide artifacts for it should we what if we just took out instead of why don't we just say um maintaining should we do we want to have anything in here about staff morale is my first question and if we do what why don't we just say maintaining staff morale I was going to suggest that um we changed that bullet point to read attracting and retaining high quality Educators and maintaining staff morale okay great that I'm writing it you'll see it I think come up attracting and require highly qualified Educators I almost feel like

141attracting and retaining highly qualified Educators addresses staff morale doesn't it because how do you retain them if there's no morale Educators and staff um yeah I mean I think of so when I use the term Educators I mean I'm including staff including custodial staff and cafeteria Gap but what central office staff as well so so do I need to say more than should I should I be more specific than just Educators I think that we should include morale um because we show up day after day even when morale is low because we're dedicated to kids I I see where you're coming from Amy but I think it not everyone may look at it that way some people may see Educators as teachers and staff as everyone else so I think it would be good to

142to have staff in there I like that and then they'll learn when they get here that we include everyone in that should I say is I just added including staff and administrators does that sure suit yep I wonder if it could read highly qualified Educators administrators and staff sure well yeah I mean I was trying to I used including because I was trying to imply how we view this yeah I kind of want to let them think it gets cumbersome with the next phrase there's several Clauses in this right how about this uh foreign Amy are you an attorney Amy you could even put that parenthetically as opposed to separated by comments you want me to put it in parent what parenthesis parentheses I think that makes sense that's good less cumbersome yep um I

143also wanted to point out to everyone at the on the first page um we are asking for a a statement as to why they desire this position and expressing something of their educational philosophy long-range goals and outstanding accomplishments and so just kind of keeping that in mind as we discuss these this quote-unquote additional information which again we need to call something else but so we're not duplicating what we're asking for I just want to keep that in mind thank you George do we on this last one I think I'm in I was thinking of addressing race-based opportunity gaps as a third bullet is that right I I put it on I just threw a three in there oh that's fine I didn't know how I tried to do it I tried to do a bullet

144and it went all funky so um but I think honestly uh the way Sarah was mentioning it earlier it's it's its own question it I don't think it should be I think we should tool it as its own question personally um I I don't know if Sarah you want to keep going with that or not or yeah I think you had mentioned it as a third question as opposed to a third bullet I don't know that I feel strongly about it except I think it's actually important enough that it might Merit its own question as opposed to being the third bullet I mean so I could see the Merit of that I think if it stays in question two is a bullet point it's a more open-ended where they could describe their experience and their

145thoughts about it if we make it its own question which the importance of it merits I think we just need to come up with it what is it we want to know from them do they have experience do they how about that and maybe that's the question I mean I'm assuming we need somebody who has experience with this we've talked about the Nuance of that we thought we'd had it before and we don't always find it but um I'm open to suggestions y'all it's important enough to be its own question we just need what are we asking for can I interject something because George I heard you say that you lift it up in the first page there's an asking for a statement that could include things covered in number one this is a little

146redundant so they've given us this statement and then number one asks them to tell us about their strengths and their qualifications which they've already given us a statement that might encapsulate that and becoming curious if what we actually have is our three bullets are our questions and what we want is for them to follow one instruction which is to briefly describe their experience and vision concerning those three bullets they are all equally important and they stand there and that's really all we don't need number one and this is really one prompt we want you to give us a open-ended response to these three areas if what's on page one is sufficient applicants should include a statement as to why they desire this position and express something of their educational philosophy long-range goals and outstanding accomplishments

147I don't love that wording but that that that's there we've asked them to do that so I I put forward that number one is not necessary and what we have in that additional information section is three questions that we just want them to briefly address three statements we want them to briefly address or could we take out that and just utilize the last part as your as what they would do that would be the that would be them according to what you were just reading and what George has pointed out that would if we took that out of that section out of page one and just leave it down at the bottom because that's where I agree with that that's where the essay questions are otherwise it's kind of like a gotcha oh you forget

148all right so it is but it's a little different than a statement of Interest so I don't know also include here or add a you know why do you want to do this which I think brings us some information about how dedicated they might be and committed long term to a district like ours so I think um if we're going to take that out I would propose that we add it down here begin with provide a statement of Interest or do or just simply describe why you want to serve Asheville City Schools as its superintendent are you saying on the at the top no I'm saying down here as the first question at the bottom okay because I I think what in is that what do you think this applicant should include a statement as

149to why they desire to position so you're saying if we well if we you're saying leave something like that at the top no okay so take it and strike it from the top okay yeah and at the bottom begin with you know um we've said provide a precise response so we don't need to say briefly and I think we can just say describe why you want to serve Asheville City Schools as its superintendent so instead of what do you feel your administrative strengths are no I I would so cutting and pasting uh the one from the top and putting it down there basically with wordsmithing um I will also tell you while I'm trying to multitask and type and speak at the same time um that Liza and I worked on the um staff morale

150language and uh change that a little so take a look at that it now reads attracting and retaining highly qualified Educators defined to include all staff and administrators and building a culture of trust mutual respect and care okay and then I would where did we land on the third bullet or a separate question I personally would go with the third bullet because I think that the question of briefly describe your experience and vision is all we need and then addressing the race-based opportunity gaps but okay I agree yeah I'm okay with that I did I took out briefly yes thank you because we don't need briefly that's great yeah perfect okay can I just say one thing I don't mind it being a bullet point I don't love that it would be the very last

151thing that we said okay so either make questions three question one or rearrange the bullet points but can we just make that the first bullet point fine with me I feel like those are you know because what we're doing is we're saying why do you want the job what are you good at and third now we're going to ask questions about very specific needs that we're curious about that we want to hear you talk about so let's put addressing race-based opportunity gaps as the first bullet and whoever knows how to use this little program can help me with that laughs I have deficiencies lots of them happens to be one of them all right so how are we feeling is that up on page one we need to stretch did you do that I'll do

152that all right Amy you got it okay so Dr cos we have a question about that just in your experience um you know we we Wordsmith that thinking about like a a cover letter and just the traditional like when you're applying for a job with with having those questions down there at the bottom and not saying explicitly send a letter of interest or a cover letter are we going to get cover letters yes you don't get cover letter sorry okay all right timeline for just a second okay yeah go ahead okay this is has this been changed since the retreat this is the proposed that we talked about this is the proposed it has not been changed and the RFQ did go out the RFQ did go out so yes um and will you remind

153me what the date was on that for our views to come back is it the end of this week um I believe it was um February 2nd February 2nd okay great very second okay um so sorry April unemployment my timeline that's okay 5 p.m February great okay so yes now let's look at the timeline and April thank you for pulling it up also thank you staff for I mean this is or we thank you for being here this is you you sat through some work so appreciate that we did Thomas longer work sessions we did encourage staff that work directly with children to go on home though the reason they left they would have stayed the whole time no yeah no it's it's yeah I totally understand um yeah and I I think it's important

154to remember that I think other boards and in the past it's been like the chair and the vice chair just get it done and send it out I think it's important now that we have an elected board um and also just in the interest of us working together as a team that we've board Smith this together so I appreciate that I appreciate y'all being here um so looking at that timeline January coming to a close amazingly um review search firm proposal so of course that's going to be pushed off to February but with that date of February 2nd that gives us time during our work session February 6th to review those firms and then at that meeting I guess we'd have to make have that does that have to be a ction item or is

155it just consensus for us to choose if we choose a search firm um that should probably be an action so it would be okay so we would have to make that work session include action because I feel like we want to go ahead and get them hired on right away as opposed to pushing that off to the regular regular board meeting the following time okay um question about that I know that for me reading all of these proposals it's very hard for me to rank them or to decide which one I like better and I know I'm interested in getting references from other school districts wondering how we can do that and still meet our you know what I mean right so I don't know in other words if we want to say okay we've

156got eight proposals or six proposals you know Sarah you follow up on this one call those school districts and see what they thought you know Rebecca you do that one and then we can kind of come back and give the Impressions that we got does that make sense I want to make sure in other words that I'm not just deciding based on their lovely presentation but that we're also doing our due diligence with respect to the search firms themselves so if these are there you say they're due on February 2nd right that's a Thursday by five o'clock if we get these five you know six o'clock that would allow phone calls on Friday only Friday right well Friday and then Monday Monday before the meeting so um okay we could probably get them out too

157yes they come in that's yeah that would be better yeah yeah yes that would be better I hope some come in before right and then why don't we do this um would it be possible George just for you to just assign that as they come in send that one to me or Liza or you know James whoever and just say here would you mind calling the references for these and providing a report yeah that border you go with that or I mean because otherwise it's just the chair does it but I'm happy I would love to share the wealth so yeah great okay I can do that okay so um so yeah so that'll be February 2nd moving into February 6th for that board meeting um here in January approval of application advertisement I believe

158we have come to consensus on that so I'll work to make sure that you know that that these edits are good and and I know that our our attorneys have the have the skill set to get that looking good and looking nice and getting it out I I would have stopped y'all if anything looked bad as we were going but we will absolutely do a final check on it great thank you um so now no later than mid-February advertisements and applications posted but we were I mean it looks like we're as soon as we get these things we can get them posted now um I mean now being this week yeah so we'll get those posted out now um we have in those drafts we've said March 1st as the deadline for applications um which

159you know traditionally from what I've heard from Dr Cosby from our our attorneys that six weeks is a is a pretty good length of time that then gives us March um and April to review and start doing interviews in April is that right yes I think if it's March 1st that's not six weeks so I don't know if that matters but I think it might need to be one week later is we're at the 23rd right now and what day of the week are we Monday today's Monday right sorry Bill's five it's five weeks looking at the calendar it's it's five weeks so assuming it goes out say Wednesday do we want to just make the deadline six weeks from Wednesday so that would be March 8th instead I I I mean I think March

1601st if you're going to want this you're going to do it you're never going to get us the information and it's going to be out there five weeks is I I think that's unless you all think it's needs to be six weeks I would ask Dr Cosby I mean we were we were told four to six weeks and right now it seems reasonable to me yeah five seems reasonable if you say six I'll just wait another week to start it people know about this I mean there's folks have already been you know they've got their feelers are up already so I also like the idea of you know because we've got um our spring break starts right at the beginning of April right or even the end of March and so having that whole month

161so we can really be starting to look at this as opposed to feeling that compressed time um before spring break um so I think in terms of this um schedule for the most part we things are in place um the really the thing before I move on let me make sure you all agree with that like in terms of especially mid-march March April into May are we feeling good about that timeline okay so then the big question now and and I and I believe kind of the final question of the night unless something else comes up is the um the listening sessions that we've been proposing now we have um a staff did a great job right after our um Retreat of putting together a calendar for when we can do these listening sessions but

162there's going to have to be some modification there because of um because of where we are right now so if y'all can pull that up um if we Community input draft and Mr chair just as a note um we do recommend going ahead and um noticing all of these whether the full board or not will be present but going ahead and noticing all of these um input forums as a board meeting oh yes thank you and we when we will definitely plan to do that um no we we have these options as you look at for example the boardroom with the after school providers option one Wednesday the 21st I'm sorry the first of February that's coming up quickly so those you know we obviously can't notice this quick enough the other thing is um

163once we once we have a search firm assuming that we do choose to use the search firm I don't even want to make that assumption yet but assuming we choose to use our search firm do we want them as kind of do we want to have already started these listening sessions without them and then have them kind of come on later and so there might be an argument for pushing back some of these listening sessions into later February and into March so that we have their involvement in the in these listening sessions when are we looking to make a decision on the search firm at the next work session so we are going to make a decision at that point okay I mean that's our goal I you know I suppose I suppose if we

164meet on Monday and say we need more time then we need another week or whatever and we can make the decision at the formal meeting or whenever we need to but I would I would say our goal is to make it money yeah Sarah and I'm coming from me who said repeatedly in board meetings how I like to have time to you know consider these things as they come in front so I I recognize that I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth at that point but I mean is there something wrong with with looking at March I mean I I agree with you um I don't see anything wrong with Marge personally but uh to do the listening sessions uh unless you unless we think we can vote on someone because we're we're

165talking about going over the proposals that we get on the sixth and then voting on the 13th at the latest we were going to vote on voting on the sixth okay we're hoping to vote on the sixth I think March is a little late for the listening sessions so but I do think that we should wait until we have our search firm in place assuming we're going to hire them because they should help us conduct this can I I would like to interject on that I think we've spent three hours saying what we are really clear about I can't imagine that a search firm is gonna do something different change our Focus I guess I'm just saying with all due respect I don't I mean they may help us with process but I don't think

166that they're going to change what we want to ask about so I had two things to say I was very persuaded at our last board meeting by the good superintendents will be gone by May so I just am reminding people I really feel like we should stay on track and this if we want to start having listening sessions it may be that the first one is a miss and then people can come back again like I guess I just want to say that but the last thing I want to say is I do think that if we are actually going to have a listening session on February 6th like that's really not fair to parents that we're I mean I feel like we might need to start the second week of February for reasons unrelated

167to a search firm but to give people plenty of time to attend so that's just a lot of on that topic Amy when the staff put us together it was just an initial effort we've discussed since then we know it's got to be moved and we can make those whatever adjustments you want to it yeah I oh go ahead James no go ahead my thinking about the importance of the search firm is not to to to necessarily inform our Focus because I do think we know that but I'm curious to have their assistance in how they happen what's the best way to elicit the information from our folks and maybe maybe we can do it ourselves very well and we don't need their input I would just be curious to know what their experience is

168in terms of what's the best way when you have this many people to get the information that you need in a way that's helpful um and I would say I also want to listen to them in terms of how many we should have we can come up with a schedule a tentative idea but I would if they say Hey you really ought to have two more that are virtual I think we should listen to that um so yeah second week of February or third but I I don't think that means we can't get to our may you know yeah I I you know I think um I mean I hear that I also recognize that the last search um we have the with this District basically did themselves notwithstanding who might have been at those

169those meetings those listening sessions I thought that the the format of them I've personally thought they were pretty well done I mean the District of random had this mentimeter thing you know and so we do have the capacity to conduct them I think in terms of my wanting a search from there is so that they're part of them so they can hear what we're hearing so then when we get into interviewing when we get into analyzing they you know they might hear something that we or might be able to bring something to the front that we that was said that we might not have heard so that's um I I totally trust that we can do them but having them there to just be a part of it as we move through so I I

170would in agreement with you and I think James you're saying the same thing like if we're pushing this these to start maybe after the 15th so half in February then moving into the beginning of March I feel like that still gives us that time to get community input as these applications are coming in well I was looking what I was going to suggest was uh kind of to Sarah's Point as well was um maybe we start them that week of the 13th um there's still the way this schedule is laid out there is still a possibility of getting all of them done that we have here listed here getting them done within the month of February there are different options and things like that and I know that you have yeah I just want to

171add that we we did ask and work with principals and it is really important to them that we get this out to their families especially since it's their space and there are some dates that do work that are later that has you suggested like for example Hall Fletcher could be the Friday the 24th at 10 A.M that was a good time for Miss Buchanan and her staff Isaac Dixon on the 21st during the school day they've already have a format a principal Hughes has already done that with her with her families and it's a welcoming spot Miss Dockery I'm so sorry can you start over because I didn't find that highlighter um just for example Hall Fletcher that very first one listed on February the 24th at 10 A.M that's the 20s we're not seeing

172this yeah I think we have different dates you are looking at a different one sorry the 22nd I'm sorry that very option one for Hall Fletcher right option two for um Isaac Dixon at 8 15 that's a Tom I'm sorry principal Hughes has already met with her families at that time so we know that works for her Jones we have a couple of options the the 16th later in the evening um that's after her after school has left and it's a good time just to give you those examples and then of course the Eddington Center is a community partner so we reached out to them to find good times and they suggested after their dance classes they have a dance team that meets and that's about the same time parents are picking up family picking

173up their children so it's a good opportunity to have an informal you could just literally stand there and talk to them at six o'clock so that's why I was saying thank you for pointing that out that's why I was looking at the dates and now that we are on the same page with the date um that we could potentially have if we start on the 13th with the boardroom after school providers at lunch 11 30 to 1 on the 13th we could potentially have them all done because these are all times that have already been verified by the different locations so uh why don't we my my suggestion would be to just go ahead and say the boardroom 1-13 for after school providers uh Jones on the 16th Dixon has three different dates that are

174all the week after that uh Paul Fletcher the 22nd or the 27th just and we know that dance on the third on Eddington Center on the 23rd I mean I I think they're laid out let's we can go ahead and just say just go ahead and grab them I agree with everything you said I have a question like you're looking at Isaac Dixon 6 p.m to me seems totally different than 8 15 a.m oh oh God no no no 15. so if we're looking at Isaac Dixon with the would the thought be that evening's better than daytime I don't I'm asking I believe that the board asks that we have like a variety of Toms for parents and families to consider we even try to do Saturdays um we looked at some dates there we

175thought that would be more appropriate since that building's already open I was wondering the same thing except I was and maybe this is just too much for us and for the process but you know I was wondering about um kind of a midday or morning and an evening at the different locations the different schools that's just too much okay I think it's a little difficult for lunch it gets a little too squirrely well I don't really mean lunch I just meant sort of like because the the reason being for example that if if Isaac Dixon is the location where we're trying to draw families from Hillcrest for example or Klondike then if we only have it at 8 15 when misuse suggests and with all due respect I don't see those families likely showing up

176at 8 15 necessarily having been to the 815 meeting I don't disagree with you it was just we were just trying to think around broad ideas right and the the her space yeah totally get it I just I'm just wondering but I also think if we like if on Monday the 20th it's at 6 pm at Isaac Dixon two days later it's at Hall Fletcher at 10 30. just for example the families either going to pick the time that works for them or the location that works for them but we don't I mean they may have to go to a different geographical place to get a time April that's I was going to ask if you could reflect some on or have we had success with communication strategies of getting people to go to locations

177that aren't necessarily where they typically go we were not doing this at every school if your kid goes to Lucy Herring we're not offering that so some people have to go to a school their kid doesn't go so being able to articulate that you you can go to any of them at the time that works best for you yes we would we would be invite making sure that we were inviting families with intent making sure we've got it out ahead of time as fast as possible so families could plan accordingly you know we did suggest larger spaces but we moved away from that if I remember correctly during the retreat we talked about tapping into homework diners existing Tom at the middle school and at the high school campus but we felt like that was

178too much but that is an example homework donors when we have the Mana food drive or the when we were open which we don't do that right now we could bring that back Dan has left but we can remind him um or any kind of where there's food being set up and served that isn't something we could tap into and that has been Rebecca very successful in the past attracting families from other schools to school that's not where their child attends so in April and sorry to interrupt you but I can tell you that that Dan has reached out and said that that Community Schools would love to host sure I think that would be interesting sessions at their homework diners so in the Asheville middle school I know that I went to the Asheville

179Middle School one and it was a huge turnout and and it's in the cafeteria and it was a great space to do it so and you could go into the media center there's appropriate space if we needed to but I mean I remember we were in the cafeteria because we had such a turnout of people I I was because I thought we had kept AMS and you know I've slept since the retreat so um I think that that one would be a really good one I know we didn't do one at the high school at the time we didn't have homework diners at the high school but we do now and that they also have a relatively good turnout is that right Miss up so I didn't you know I'm sure I defer completely to

180those of you who remember that I don't remember saying pulling those off the table I would like to do one at Asheville middle and Asheville high if we can during the homework diners I think that's a good idea yeah yes I would like that too and I know we're putting a lot of these on there and I know you know there's there's that risk of kind of saturating it and saturating our own time but I I do think I mean we we've seen the success of Omar diners and and who comes and so I would very much be in favor of us being a part of those the only thing I'll add to that though is I do think that raises an issue in terms of process when you have that many people in that

181space where you're you know people are focused on eating or whatever then that's where we're not going to be able to necessarily employ the same we processed that we did last time the process we used last time was mentimeter and it was let's say that again mentimeter yeah so everyone logs in on your phones it gave us a feedback from people who would never get up in front of people and speak and I thought and George can speak to it as someone who participated as well and you did as well it and pepe uh it it really captured a lot of feedback that we and I remember asking this that we had not gotten before yeah I would encourage the board to do I'm sorry Rebecca I was just going to ask at homework Diner

182is back in the day there was often a theme you know so I was imagining that Dan's group might say let's make this and then and then either go to the media center to participate in that or if it can be done but that's that's part of homework Diner right that we would break into we could you could also I would encourage you to consider having a hybrid having some um as some of the locations do James what you had just said but you could also do small group discussions we had very successful conversations I believe you're a part of that too I know that Dr deckett was part of that and Marta where we broke up and used the space to really kind of articulate and dictate what was happening and we walked away

183with some concrete things we also were able to have some prickly conversations that way um that people were a little bit more it was a little bit more intimate and people would lean into it in a different kind of way so I would I would just consider a hybrid since you're going to different places and advertise it as such so people know what they feel comfortable with and where to go I I also wonder um if just just thinking about the the virtual listening session that we've that we're planning here if there is also a way for people to submit their ideas ahead of time um you know whether it's either written in survey form or pre-recorded video sure we can figure something out work together on that thanks and then April one more thing

184to put on your to-do list um you know last time we did have a session that was dedicated to our latinx community and it was conducted in Spanish are we able to do whether I I would prefer if we if we could have translation at every single one but I just don't know the capacity that the district has and we can we can try to do that but we can definitely provide translation services we will do that for example on Thursday night at Magnet night we will have that and we can also do a tailored one just to try to be very inclusive to make sure those families feel welcome okay thank you we can work on that great thank you so I so I'm seeing you know the same spaces plus two at two

185homework diners is that what we're going to okay tell me which ones you want I was gonna say could we just sort of delegate to staff to make the decisions at this point we've kind of let them come up with the best times and dates for those schools that'd be great with you I just don't I just don't know that we need to dictate that at this point I feel like let's just let them decide okay get it to you as soon as possible great thank you thank you we will get it to you it was a team effort great so we're looking to start the week of the 13th yes I would start whenever staff wants to with the understand with the understanding that it should be sometime around the 13th or in that

186okay you know the first one is the first could be the very first that can't be next no no no no no no no but if they wanted to wait until the 20th because that week works better that's fine too I think the objective would be to complete them what within the first week of March or something like that that works does that make sense yes so so not before the 13th but whatever works yeah great um well everyone thank you those of you still in the room those of you still online those of us here uh um I mean this is what our work session is right so thank you for for digging deep and and comments from everyone um thank you staff especially for putting this stuff together um for getting these things

187scheduled I really appreciate that um anything else from the board before we move into just the closing of this meeting all right um just some quick future meetings and announcements I do want to remind everyone that tomorrow Tuesday is an early release day um end of the semester which means Wednesday is a work day it's a no school for students and then the second semester starts on Thursday if you have questions about why that's so as opposed to right around the holidays then we can talk about that another time I also want to remind everyone that we have rescheduled the um open house community meeting at Asheville middle school and yeah Asheville middle school for this coming Thursday that's when every elementary school will be there to present and we start the Open Enrollment process

188and then on the calendar I don't have that in front of me but I believe it's the second and third of February when open houses will happen at the specific schools good glad I got that um on the board side we do have that work closed session on Monday February 6th and we've already discussed that we'll have some things on that agenda item most um pertinent to this conversation we'll be looking at are the submissions and for the rfqs for search firms we have another early dismissal this is for preschool at noon on Wednesday February 8th late start for elementary and secondary students on Wednesday February 8th Elementary School start at 10 A.M secondary schools start at 10 30 and then we'll have our next regular meeting and our first regular meeting with all seven

189of us present or sworn in on Monday February 13th 5 pm here in the boardroom again just want to I've already said it a few times but just the gratitude for y'all being here and doing this um I also wanted to just acknowledge what people bring into the room you know we're coming from our work we're coming from families um and just that that's what that's what this is like we're a board but we're also like a part of this district and everything that we bring in here so thank you for bringing your whole selves to this work it really means a lot to me and I think I can speak for the board as well but it means a lot for all of us so thank you um if there are no other things

190then I'll ask for we do have a reception that's right across in the training room to honor our nearest board member yes and we have a lot of food we need somebody to hang around and help us do something with it yes thank you Dr Dr Cosby um and with that can I have a motion to adjourn no move uh seconded it has been moved and seconded uh all in favor any opposed