001Good evening everyone. We're going to go ahead and call the meeting to order. Most of the board members seated and present. We will have determined a quorum. Um if everyone can take a look at the agenda and let me know your pleasure. Motion by Mr. Woff, second by Mr. Camp. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor indicate by saying I. I. Those opposed, nay. Eyes have it. The agenda is passed unanimously. We have superintendent updates with Dr. Swan. >> Good evening, board members. Madam Chair, good to see everyone. It feels like forever since we've seen each other other than talking on the phone. Um I know we've off to a great start with the school year. So I do have some great updates and some information for you to share. First off, as
002you recall back in the early I want to say work days, we had a uh before the work days, we had an individual um at Salem Elementary School in the vicinity um that was being chased by law enforcement. So what we're going to do on the 13th is recognize a couple staff members that kind of did what our safety protocols calls for. Um they they kept that individual in the vestibule, didn't let him into the main area. Uh law enforcement finally apprehended the individual. So kudos to our staff members. Um Dr. Sain will be recognizing those individuals on the 13th of October. Also, North Carolina Association of School uh Business Academy. something that we're going to begin doing um this year is recognizing individuals. This group of individuals um they received um certification from the
003business academy from North Carolina. Um we had several bookkeepers and some principles and assistant principles that will be recognized on the 13th. Uh our bookkeepers Elizabeth Walker, Karen Wheeler, Leslie Ratcliffe, and Michelle Pal. and our principal and assistant principles Tasha Haskins, Ashley Ay, Kellen P, Emily Parker, Jeannie Jandrew, and Terara Tucker that went through that training as well. So kudos to that group. Also, we had the uh privilege of congratulating our beginning teacher of the year, Mallerie Hartman. She is a drawn high school science teacher. So, we surprised her uh last week um and it was great. her students participated in that war and Mallerie was one of my students at Heritage Middle School many many moons ago. Um Dr. Uton had Mallerie I believe at at Drawn High School as well. So uh as
004we were talking to somebody the other day, a lot of our our beginning teachers were born and bredenburg county schools. So we're happy to see them coming back and serving our communities as well. So we'll recognize Mallalerie next in two weeks as well. Also, today we did principal of the year, Miss Caroline Johnson. Um, so Caroline is the longtime uh principal in the county, assistant principal. She was a teacher for us. Uh, has done a phenomenal job. She is currently at Pilgrim Elementary School. So, she'll go on and represent Burke County in the state competition. So, we'll help her through that process. I always joke um I I want our folks to get recognized at the state level, but if they do become state principles of the year, they have to take a year off
005of becoming a principal in Burke County and they travel the state. So, it's kind of a double-edged sword for us. I want them on to that next level for that accolade. So, um good luck to Miss Johnson on that. Also, um Dr. Aton and Dr. Abernathy dug into our small group data discussion. So for those individuals that haven't been able to make those data discussion meetings uh with our testing from last year, I encourage you to get with us and we'll definitely sit down with you guys and go over some more data points. Um but I do want to draw some attention to some highlights that we had. Um Burke County Public Schools exceeded growth in math 1, fifth grade science, eighth grade math. Nine schools increased in proficiency from 24 to 25. Five schools
006increased in growth in 25. Two schools went up a letter grade. One elementary school posted exceeded growth, George Hilderbrand. Congratulations to them. Once again, we will be recognizing these individuals at our October 13th meeting as well. One middle school posted exceeded growth, Walter Johnson Middle School. Two middle schools came out of low performing status. Burke Middle College continues to excel with an A rating. Allebertton went from maintaining to progressing in the alternative model of accountability. And in Burke County, our graduation rate rose from 88.2 in 22 23 to 89.2 in 2425 with four of five high schools increasing their cohort graduation rate. As as always, we know and recognize that we do have areas of improvement. Um so things that we're focusing on moving forward, reading grades four, five, and seven and both growth and
007proficiency, English two in both growth and proficiency, math grades four through seven in growth. So here again, these are these are some of our schools that we focus on. We've already met with the school principles, sat down with our our groups to identify areas of improvement. >> Yes. Mhm. So So absolutely some of the efforts would be what I'd consider lowhanging fruit if you had a a fifth grade teacher that taught all fifth graders last year that didn't perform where up to par. So we go in, we look at it, we try not to micromanage those principles and say, "Hey, that person probably doesn't need to be testing uh a science grade." So those individuals would be moved out of that area, put in another role, or what they would do is they'd spread the
008wealth out of those students. So that's just one area. Um, and we've had that happen on several occasions where district leaders would be looking at data as a whole and say, "Okay, or or math one, for example, another tested subject. Um, not body wants to teach math one. So our veteran teachers are the best at building relationship. So our expectation with those principles is to go in and say, "Okay, I know you may want not want to do this, but this is what's best for the students and best for the school right now." So areas like that, what I'd consider lowhanging fruit. Uh looking at their their lesson plans on a regular basis. Um we we we have access the principles have access to every lesson plan. Um in the in their school. Um so
009they can go in there and look and make comments. Um if they look in on Sunday night and there's no lessons, that's the expectation of the principal to look at that and say, "Okay, you have no plans for the upcoming week." I'm going to look again on Monday. But here again, we we've got to see that areas of improvement. We meet weekly, monthly with those schools, the schools that are under improvement. Uh Dr. Otman and her team, you want to add anything? um instructional needs like we've listed here, then we'll meet with them typically on a monthly basis to look at their data, to look at check-in data. Are we moving in the right direction? Um if there are certain areas like math, if we need to do a specific PLC with those teachers, take
010a deep dive into lesson plans. We'll do some classroom visits um just to support the the principal's plan. We want a lot to be guided through the school improvement plan and the principal, but then we kind of come behind and just kind of help to make sure that they're carrying out what that plan entails. But we try to do a frequent visit with those folks. >> Yes. >> So small group instruction. Some of our elementary schools with title one funding, they can hire a reading remediation instructor. Our middle school, we still have a title one reading instructor as well. um or I'm sorry, reading specialist at middle school as well. And that that showed growth with our our middle school as well. Um so just some of that those those tactics that we're using small
011group instruction, the the the learning that's guided more towards that learner than just okay, I'm going to throw out a bag of pennies. Whoever gets it first gets it. Uh we want to find out where your deficiency is. As you walk into our classrooms and that's as we start doing some school visits, you may see a classroom teacher working students where some of the other students are out reading independently on their own. So within 15 minutes that teacher is going to have a new group of students working with them independently as well. So a lot of those strategies that are that are already happening but we have to do a little more focused approach to that >> yes as Dr. said our checkins that we're doing um we're four weeks in we've already sent progress
012reports home right now so we kind of know okay who who needs that extra right now and not just our students but our teachers. We have I want to say roughly 135 um residency lensure teachers. Uh that means out of our staff of 900 we have 135 that are we hired that don't have a teaching degree right now. So those are brand new teachers that maybe have a biology degree, an English degree or a math degree but not in the field of teaching. So that's an added support where that classroom management comes in. instruction how to teach children to read >> exactly how to how to get that one-on-one attention with them. A lot of a lot of teaching and learning is coaching and classroom management content and teachers don't have those three things and
013makes it very difficult for them in the classroom. So our instructional coaches help, our principles help, we help in so a lot of our folks will go in and guide lessons for those new teachers as well. >> And I want to say one more thing. Um, I've been I sat with um Dr. Alton and um Dr. Abernathy and I I had already heard these plans and these strategies and what they were in place, but I feel like it's very very important for our our parents and our constituents to also hear those plans. And this is not criticism at all about anything, but I feel like sometimes we get so wrapped up in we all know it and we forget that sometimes we need to make sure that our community also knows how hard we work
014to correct things that we see that are that are problematic um or or you know sometimes they jump up and surprise us and that's unfortunate but when they do I feel like it's very important that people understand and know that We are always strategizing. We are always working and striving to improve that and to bring our students where we want them. And so I really appreciate you guys taking the time to just reiterate that here in this school. >> Thank you. >> And our our motto every mind focused every hand in working is is kind of the new that goes along with the all in promise this year. So also um student superintendent teacher advisory board meeting we met last week with group of folks. I'm sorry for the the mug shot on that. This
015was the best one Cheryl could find. Thanks, Cheryl. Um, so we met we meet with a group of folks um, as I said, some beginning teachers of the year, veteran teachers of the year, just a an eclectic group of individuals that will meet with us and we go over different things. So, this year we talked about attendance, teacher attendance, what it costs when a teacher's out. That's why we started the teacher incentive program this year. Um, and also we went over the uh the balance instruction with this group. Hey, what does it look like? And and they gave us some honest feedback. And what we try to get them to understand is whatever they say in that room. It's a confidential space. It's it's a good space where they can share items and they're not
016they're not afraid to talk to us during that meeting. Um, which is good. Um, so we we talk about the calendar. The calendar is always topic. So, we'll meet quarterly with this group. This is a picture from last year. So, we do have a few new faces on that group this year. Um, but just a great group of teachers that will come and share their perspectives on being in the front lines on what's going on. We don't pretend that we know every single thing um that's happening in on a dayto day. We we we know 99.9% of what's going on, but we're not in their classroom every single day. Um, so we want to hear from them on what's going on, areas of improvement that we can help them out. Also, good news with Gear
017Up. We received our notice of award, which is renewal. Uh, that'll kick in with our sixth graders, I believe, Miss Kurpatre this year. Yes. So, 6 through 12, it will continue to follow our sixth graders all the way through graduation. So, and that helps exposure to fouryear institutions doing something um within the workforce. Um so, Gear just does a lot with us. Um over the summer, they do programs, they do camps for our students. So, we're very happy that we received that. >> Quick question. >> Yes. >> Um is this a state funded program? >> Federal. Yes. It's through here again, we're we're the Appalachin uh partnership. So, there's several districts within the Appalachin Partnership. specifically. I couldn't name any of them. I want to say Waga's possibly one. Ginger missed it. Waga, McDow. So,
018several other western districts are part of that program as well. >> Also, last Friday, we had a special call board meeting. Uh, Miss Leslie Taylor will be a nominee for the North Carolina School Board Association. So, uh, we'll find out hopefully within the next couple weeks, um, about that nomination and hopefully get an appointment. Um, there's that. Also, new central office update. Next Tuesday, the bids will be in for central office on exactly what that um will entail. Um, we we very hopeful they've pretty much completely finished with the soft demo aspect of it. As you'll see to the left, that's just a a rendering of what the the entrance of the central office will look like. Um, we hope we just found out today that it's looking like end of September, early October before
019we uh get access to the new central office next year. We had hoped over the summer, but just some delays in um planning and zoning have kind of slowed us down a little bit through the city. So, we're working through those steps as well. I had a conversation with Mr. Epley, so we're still good. uh New Eastern Elementary School. As you know, tomorrow night at 6 pm at Ikard Elementary gymnasium, we'll have our first community uh meeting. Dr. Aker, his team, and uh individual Hamilton Court will be on hand to go over the new plans for the elementary for any public feedback that we'll have. We did conclude two staff meetings. We went down, met with Iikert Elementary School and Hildebrand Elementary School. staff meetings and they were very much on board as far as
020they saw some of the safety deficiencies that those schools had uh some of the areas of improvement that they could do within the campuses. So um we're looking forward to these meetings coming up this week. Also policy committee um we talked um with Miss Beechler a couple weeks ago. We're going to um do a policy committee review group uh and basically look at some policies within Burke County public policy manual. Uh some of them have not been touched in years. Several of them the school board association updates those policies. So myself, Dr. Autton, Mr. Beck will be on that committee going through some of those older policies and reviewing and and just trying to update some of those policies moving forward. Also, we had the opportunity to host Burke Chamber Education Day. Um so that's
021always a highlight of our day when they start off the Steam Academy. They did a presentation. They got to see actually they they saw students from some of our elementary schools over at the Steam Academy. They were working on circuits that day on how to build a circuit and they were doing Morris code. So, it's amazing to go in there and see some of the brains of a 10-year-old, how they work and come up with the ideas that they do. Um, so they went to, excuse me, on the picture to the right group went to Freedom High School. Uh, two of the students I had um when I was at Freedom. Um, so here again, it's just great to see our community partners that are former students um within the community as well. Um, also
022highlight our assistant principal and new principal support program that we have. This is a picture. It after one of our meetings, we always encourage them to go out, break bread with one another. So, here's a picture of them. They just went out, sat down, and it's it's good. Sometimes they're in the meetings together. Um, and what we do, we offer that support to them, but we also want them to have that inner level of support and trust with each other so they can pick up the phone and say, "Hey, I'm going through this problem. What can you do to help me out rather than always calling somebody that um, we've been through there, but it's also good for them to build that network as well. Also want to invite you guys to our October 15th
023made competition. that is in partner with the city of Morgan and um our CTE program. So our project lead the way groups will be participating at the college street wreck from 8 to 5. So we'll go in drop in and out. It's just phenomenal. They get uh they get a box of materials in the morning and they have all afternoon to create whatever design they have. Typically it's a conveyor system where they have to make something. Uh, so it's it's a neat competition for our students to participate in. Also, October 22nd at Patton High School, State Superintendent Mo Green will be visiting. He will be at Mountain View Elementary School. At 1:45, we'll be doing some walkthroughs, uh, opening up car rider doors for our students at the end of the day. And then at
0245:30 or 5:00, we have dinner, I believe, is the schedule, um, planned. And then six o'clock is Mr. Green's um meeting at Patton High School. So, as you recall, he had his last one back in the spring in Caldwell County. Stop laughing. Um Caldwell County. So, um this one will be here. It's more of a listening session from Mr. Green. Um and and a lot of his pillars in the his strategic plan. Burke County Public School is already aligned um with with those pillars. So, we're we're happy about that. Um, oh, yep. I put November 10th on here, so I apologize. It's October 22nd, so disregard the 10th date on there. Well, the the 1:45 p.m. Mountain View tour is just it's it's him and a small team of people going to walk around and
025just visit some classrooms. And the 6 PM when at Patton High School, that's where he's going to get up and show what his pillars for improving education in North Carolina. So, I would say this, yeah, I would say the 6 PM. And there's a um Eventbrite registration link that they they've request all of us to fill out so they can have an idea on how many people are coming. So, I filled mine out. We'll have Pam send you guys that link tomorrow as well, >> October 22nd at 6 at Patton High School. >> Also, we have another November 10th, we have B County Spelling Bee coming up at Patton High School. Uh, that's that's another one where it's as you sit there and listen to the students, the the words that they spell. I I
026always touted myself as a good speller. until you get around some of these students and the words that they spell is amazing. So, if you guys can make it, we we love having you guys there with us. Once again, we we continue our superintendent safety council. Just a super important time to continue that. Dr. Sain, Dr. Aker met with our group a couple weeks ago um and just updated our small group on things that we've done to make Burke County Public Schools a safer place regarding cameras, entry ports, sally ports, fencing around campuses. So just a lot of different things grants applied for. We are one SRO short right now in Burke County. Um and we're just working with officer or sheriff heman on getting that um position filled. And also the sheriff's department has
027three positions for from a grant that they have as well. So we're just we're waiting for that balance to happen for our school so that we can have more officers on our campus. >> So would that be four total? >> Four additional. Well, three three additional one one filling a spot. Yes. >> No 10 at the moment. So we'll have 11 plus three. So we should have 14 in total. if we could ever we've got we've had a sergeant position years ago. We've always kept that position, but here again, it it's a balance of road positions or school resource officer positions within the county. So, we we know they're both very important and and Sheriff Heman knows that value as well. So, he's balancing that out. So, we're pleased with what we've got right now
028and they do a phenomenal job. >> Yes. >> And and Yeah, Drexel PD is right there. So, they're they're on call pretty much. They they have duty. They have 24-hour coverage in the city of Drexel. So, we're fortunate to have that. And then we have Bobby Bowman at Heritage Middle School that can come over as needed as well. Yep. >> All right. I do want to highlight see you at the poll. Last week, we had several schools participate. I would say this is probably one of the the largest years that I've noticed our students and our staff coming out to see you at the poll. So kudos to that group of individuals that that come out. Uh if you've never been there, I encourage you to come. We have groups that brought loudspeakers and really
029spoke to the students. So it's very moving to see our students out there at the poll. Um so thank thank them, thank our community members and our faith-based community for helping out. And those are my updates, Madam Chair. >> Thank you, Dr. Sw. Does anyone have any questions? Next On the agenda is the new Eastern Ele School joint resolution with Mr. Keith Al. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm glad to be back here. It's great to live in Burke County and Vald. It's great to see the board of education. Uh if there are questions regarding finance, uh Mr. Lawson, uh Mike's had his challenges with uh spelling. I've had mine with math. So, uh ask Mr. Lawson those questions. Uh the first uh is the resolution and see if I can make sure I
030pull that up. That has been prepared by our office, John Henny, partner at our office. It's in a standard format. Glad to answer any questions, but it's it's fair short and to the point. What it basically does, it uh commits the county. It's good to uh fund the project. Uh there's a lease component where the property is transferred from the board of education to the county. This is necessary in order for there to be any sales tax refunds. County commissioners can obtain refunds on certain sales taxes, but boards of education are not entitled to do that. And so rather than throw money away, standard practice to transfer property to the county, then it reverts once those expenditures are done. That's the purpose of that. Sometimes there's transfers to the county because the county is borrowing
031funds it needs to mortgage. That's another reason why transfer property for these. This is I think the sales tax. U then the county uh gives back or sees its authority to run the school and to manage construction process to the board of education. That's in section three. That's also pursuant to North Carolina law that says that all contracts dealing with construction renovation of a school are to be approved by the board of education. And then uh I had that here. I don't have it in front of me, but I think section four authorized the county to take steps to uh make the funding and to receive those sales tax revenues. So any questions, glad to answer, but it's it's uh it's pretty straightforward and it's a template. It's not created out. Any questions? >> Are
032we okay to add to the October 13th agenda? >> Thank you. >> Next is the new Eastern Elementary School architecture contract. I do it. >> Uh this is a contract. I think it's marked draft. >> It's prepared by John Henning of our office. a standard form. It's based on AIA form contract from school boards and architects with revisions to uh accommodate the interests of the school board. The standard AIA contract is not bad, but it's written by architects to favor architects. So school boards always make some revisions to those to kind of equalize. Uh that has been provided to the architect and it's my understanding that architect's comments or suggestions have not been received yet. So we don't know if they'll accept it as it is or whether they'll have some modifications. There are also
033some blanks in the contract that need to be filled. Most significant Uh, one is uh the architect's compensation. Believe that's on page 22. It's blank. Mr. Lawson has had conversations with the architect his correspondence. I believe that number has been settled. That's based on construction costs only not acquisition land various other things which is estimated at this time to be 46,750,000. So the contraction the architectural fee equates to 3,155,625 and I anticipate between now and the 13th when we have meeting to take action that this should be final and not a draft and with those numbers. >> So at this time it is a draft. >> So is that part of that 46 million? >> Uh that's part or beyond the 46 but it's all inclusive of the total project of 55 doesn't get correct.
034Uh couple other key blanks in there are dates. When is the architecture commenced? When is substantial completion? When is final completion? Those need to be put in a final contract. And again, it's hoped probably anticipated that the architect architect's attorney if need be our office with review and approval by Dr. Swan, Mr. Boss can finalize that and have it prepared ready for the board for final approval next month. If there's something still outstanding, an option that we see frequently is for the board to approve it. Uh in the language is basically substantially terms presented with revisions acceptable to the superintendent and the board attorney. And then that allows in case there's a some modest change comes up after the board meeting, you don't have to have another board. You don't have to do that. You
035can wait or call a special meeting and have it approve. Ideally, you'd have everything lined up by your board. If there's tiny bit to go, this is an option again approve it by the board. Substantial presented authorizes to with revisions attorney that you don't need. So that's I think it's certainly ready to go to the board meeting next week whether to final >> two weeks I'm sorry next meeting instead of next week. Yeah. So hopefully in two weeks that that gets done but if it is you're ready to go. If it isn't, you can either defer it, call a special meeting or make this authorization with modest changes. I think right now it's ready to go on agend. >> So my understanding that this contract is going to go back and forth between drafts between
036us and the architect. could be wrong. I want to say and I don't think I'd be surprised if the architect register much objection to the language per they've seen this before they've dealt with our firm they dealt with county school I just can't say they've approved it yes okay So from now on I just you know deal with John probably get his okay ready. >> We're not trying to rush your decision making but you know we received $42 million from the state it'll be two years so 24 so February 14 would have been our deadline hurricane Dr. one year extension. So when you take into consideration the months that it takes and the timeline just to interview process talk with our construction manager at risk when that's selected and get shuttle in the ground which
037is required. We have really just not not much over a year left to accomplish that. >> Any outstanding questions? How do you think we should handle this? >> You're asking. >> I am. >> I I I don't anticipate any material changes to this draft is presented. If so, we can certainly highlight that 13th meeting. The only changes I really see are maybe some insertion of dates and the numbers that I cover with you. >> Awesome. So, me personally, I'm asking for those deviations or changes um that occur, can they just be highlighted on our draft? We just be made aware of what those are prior to us. >> And as you say, that should be prior so you have a chance to ask any questions in advance. So, are we good to add this to
038the October 13th agenda? >> Sweet. >> Thank you. I think we have budget amendments with you now as well. >> Yes. Amendment number two formalized in the joint budget resolution. I officially request your consideration for the approval of $13 million uh to complete the construction of a elementary school in Eastern B County. Uh, and I would like to say, and I know you all are well aware of this, but I like to get it out, communicate it out as much as possible so people can understand. Although one side of the operations, we're reducing deficit cutting, slashing, and and then on this side of the table, we have $13 million to allocate to build new elementary school. Again, as you're well aware, this is operational expenses and statute. Carolina statutes as well as federal laws regulate
039how that money is spent. It's spent accordingly and then this 13 million capital funds can only be used. >> Any questions? is required by the state. Excuse me. Well, our actual match is 5% which is 2.1 million but it's taking 2018. Thank you. Thank you. Budget revision number three. I won't go through by line item. I'll certainly be happy to entertain any questions. Any questions? I think we're good. >> Thank you. >> Next, we have the personnel board action report with Mr. Keith Record. I have a question that I probably should know the answer to and what you tell me to but while I was looking at this I did not have the answer to it. Um um the second section line items six through nine are titled certified personnel elections temporary fulltime >> correct
040>> can I can you just give me the definition of that >> so these are individuals that were I'm looking through that list they were previously employed with us so now they're coming back to us I see one name in particular number seven that was a retiree So temporary fulltime. So they don't get benefits in a nutshell. They do not get benefits from us because they're temporary full-time. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> They can't work more than 30 33 and a half hours a week. Yes. >> Thank you. I thought it was probably something like that based on the assignment but I just >> Yes. They are teachers. They are teachers. Yes, sir. >> Dr. Swan. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Number 34. You may want to check with admin on that. That
041one's not there. >> Okay. And there is a note for me to read saying that we will enter close session with the board attorney and Mr. Recker on October 13th before the vote on the personal action report. >> Yes. >> All right. So, are we good to add that to the October 13th? >> Next, we have the Chartwell supper meal. Supper. Still getting used to that word. supper mail contract with Mr. Daniel. All right, any questions? All right, we good to add it to October 13th. >> Yep. Thank you. >> Next, we have appointing voting delegates for NCSBA 2025 delegates assembly. >> Yes. So, Burke County, we're eligible to have four voting delegates uh for the North Carolina Schoolboard Association in November and those dates are November 12th through the 14th. Um it's a great
042conference to go to. Miss Pam will be sending information so that we can get uh a block of rooms reserved for anybody that would like to go. Two full days. We got it in there. Very good. So, if you're interested in going to that, please reach out to Pam um so that she can get some information for you. So, it's a good very good conference to go to. A lot of lot of great sessions on uh working within the schools, school board um information um and some really good fellowship. get to meet a lot of new people across the state as well. I I attend with you guys, so it's a good opportunity for us to um enjoy each other's company as well. >> Any questions? >> We're good to add it to the October
04313th meeting. Very well. Thank you. Uh, next we have um the open session minutes from August 4th, 2025 and September 19th, 2025 special call meetings as well as the close session minutes from October 4th. Um, are we good to add those minutes to the October 13th agenda or are there things that need to be edited? >> We're good. So we'll go ahead and add that to the October 13th agenda. And we have first reading of policies in CSBA updates. Dr. is that you? >> Okay. So all of those So I've got maybe just an addition to that discrimination harassment by federal law. A2 >> which policy >> 1710 >> so I'm not sure just kind of wanted to bring this up to the board you know there's been a lot of you know social media
044blast and different things like that you know where people been bullying we specifically have internet, email, text message, video calls. I'm sorry, that's A2 under harassment. A2 under harassment. And u So we've got internet, email, text message or video calls. Would we want to add maybe social media to that specifically? >> Or would that open more than being able to to help It says internet. Yeah, it says internet but specifically >> examples of behavior. >> I like it. I mean they do it all in such an probably But yes, that's what I started saying there social media and they know that's included. I think it's included but not nothing wrong to highlight it right and some people may if you say social media that might have stronger impact internet >> right >> that'd be perfectly
045fine now I would just say and and you know this but uh students do have a lot of free speech rights especially when it's off campus on social media it's not It's not that they can say anything, but they have a lot of rights. The Supreme Court case fairly recently said schools have to be careful. So certainly anytime you're going to hold a student accountable for harassment or bullying involving social media, make sure get the attorney involved and we don't jump the gun on something that's, you know, offensive but protected. I like it. >> That's a good addition. >> Yeah, that >> you put that in. Okay, good. >> So, I'm going to bring up the dreaded 4318 policy. I think Leslie's point was a great segway into talking about wireless communication devices. while I
046understand that we live in a scary world and cell phones are a means for parents to remain in contact with their children. I do hear rumblings. I am in the schools, have kids in them. Um, still seeing them out. And I'm not saying that this is a lack of teacher adherence to the policy, principal adherence. Um, if I can be quite frank, I do see a lot of communication on social media where um, parents are supporting their kids being able to be on their phones doing whatever it is that they're doing, which is kind of counterproductive to what we're trying to do to have them focused during instructional time. I'm not really saying for there to be a change now, but I say this be a probationary year potentially to if we continue to see
047these issues um because I'm at the point quite frankly where I I want to take it a step further and that looks like school cell phones not available during the school day not just during instructional time. Um we have phones in every classroom we have phones in the office if there is an emergency. We have a public information officer that's getting information out. We have dojo, all of those things. Um, if kids need to call parents, parents need to relay messages to their kids. We have many, many, many modes of doing that. But, and I know Leslie, you worked really hard on the cell phone policy. I know you did, but I just don't think there's adherence. And so, I I really want us to consider this being a probationary year. And if we can't
048as a community get our act together, then us as a board revisit cell phones being allowed while students are at school, period. I mean, we we just and I'm going to go off on a tangent. I'm sorry. Preemptively, we just finished talking about school data. And as a community, we like to say teacher teacher teacher school school. I can't teach a kid who's not paying attention because he's here. You know what I'm saying? how how much can we do? How much can we grow if they're not engaged? And to be honest, yeah, half the time they are talking to their parents. Parents know that they're at school. You know what I'm saying? So, it is within our responsibility as a board to ensure that we are providing a basic and sound education. And if that
049means that cell phones are prohibited for students on school campuses during the school day, I'm willing to take that hit. So, I just want us to be ratt rattling that around in our brain. Um, I don't know how y'all feel about it, but we have a cell phone policy and I don't feel that it's being followed. And so, at this point, it's just a piece of paper. I'm not saying to be a forever thing, but I need I need the community's attention that this isn't a joke. >> Very mixed feelings about it. I can I could post up on either side of that that conversation. Um I think the problem is staff adherence as you're saying. Um I don't I don't personally even in high school get away with it. You're gonna get away with
050it. I mean that's just the nature of a kid, you know. right or wrong but I know from experience I know from seeing hearing talking to various teachers parents students I hear I hear more I don't even worry about it I don't even bother it's too much trouble to collect those too much trouble to where they go or I don't know. Our teacher says if she doesn't see him, she doesn't care, you know. Um, well, I want my my son or daughter that I need him. Number one thing that is said to me after that statement is, and I bet it's with all of you here, what if there's a school shooting, I want my kid to call me. What if there's an emergency in the school? I do think that adherence to the policy
051is what we need. And my only thought on it would be before we take the step you're asking that we we come down maybe a little harder on enforcing that polic with staff, whether you're a PE teacher or whether you are a whatever um adherence to the policies that we put in place, it's it's not a suggestion. It is it is what we require. Um although as another step or as the next step I noticed >> and I agree with that and where I because I hear the same thing. Well I tell them to put it away and then they don't. Where how far can a teacher or a principal push it when you have the kid I mean I'm g be honest not all kids are angels. You have a kid saying I'm not
052going to do it and then you try to follow up with that parent and you better not I pay the phone bill for my kid. you better not take where do they go from there. Now you just have complete complete um disregard and abandon for it. So during the probationary period yes stricter adherence but we also have a policy that was on this list um 3225 4312 7320. Now, I'm going tell you, I've done been in these schools quite a bit and I love my cell phone. But when I go into the schools and I try to get on the internet or Facebook and doom scroll, I have hardly no signal. So, I have to get on the school Wi-Fi. Well, according to this policy, the only reason we should be accessing the school Wi-Fi
053is for instructional purposes. So, that's a double-edged sword because just as I'm getting on the Wi-Fi, I know kids are getting on the Wi-Fi and I'm wondering if they do have because I think we have student and staff login. >> If we shut down that Wi-Fi, I don't think a lot of phones are going to work. So, that's another >> I don't that's more of a a technology question whether we because I know our computers, the student computers have to be logged on to a Wi-Fi for it to work. I don't know if there could be separate pre-logged loginins for Wi-Fi that are just preset that kids don't know. Um, yes, but I I think we continue to harp on following the policy that exists because I don't I don't want to have to take
054it there. I want some responsibility, accountability in it. But if I may, I I would say Dr. Wilson, Miss Kurpatre are already devising how they're going to send this message out to our principal tomorrow. Um, they can probably, >> if you could put a smiley face on it, >> so without me even looking back at them, I I knew what they were doing. So, we'll vet that message with our principles. We'll send that out. Uh, and also we have our principal meeting on Monday, uh, the 7th, I'm sorry, next Tuesday. Um, so we'll readress that as well with them. As far as super or the the supervision of the cell phones, the enforcement, we get text messages probably on a regular basis. Mom or dad's mad because principal X confiscated a phone. We had one
055just Friday. Um, because we know parents are going to be very upset about that. Um, so we we anticipate that. So it is getting enforced in in a lot of areas, but I do think some adherence could definitely use some beefing up. Um, and I'm not talking about kids with the IEPs and this built into their programs, but I believe when Leslie was working on the cell phone policy so many years ago, um, one of the things that we paid attention to was the consequences, making sure that the consequences served as a real deterrent. And I believe that the NCSBA's additions um, kind of undid a little bit of that. Um, I know one of the things that we talked about was the having to be one of the ones to come and retrieve the
056phone if it was confiscated. I'm looking right now. There it is. Um page 203 uh section D consequences. Um we had absent compelling unusual circumstances confiscated wireless communication devices will be returned only to the student's parents. That's what we added. it is now in general the confiscated device will be returned to the student at the end of the school day. So it kind of pulled it pulled it back >> and that's something as a board you can change that you can you can revert back to >> the strikeout. We didn't this was just a general right. >> Yeah. So if you guys would like that I I'm fine with >> Yeah. Because in the next sentence it says however administrator may require to recover. They can say >> you know get rid of that part
057and revert back to parents must come in whatever is your pleasure. >> So you like parent having to pick up the phone. You like having to pick up the phone. >> So maybe putting that back in The bottom line is this policy every teacher every class for every teacher and each one eventually their class is going to deal with it'll deal with it. My question really teachers send out a survey survey maybe just a randomized I would agree with you if the principal doesn't know about a cell phone They're not going to know how to handle that. She said teacher says, "Well, I'm not I'm tired of dealing with it." Principal doesn't know that >> and we can't blame the principal because they're sending out what our expectations are is to follow the policy to
058a team, but it's hard for us to >> I'm almost done. And to bring this back around, you were talking about the harassment and being set off campus. A lot of the videos that I see sometimes that circulate that specific Facebook group that we all love >> are on campus during school hours of them harassing students there. And so it's a problem. I mean, would I like to believe that kids are just using the phone to say, "Hey, mom, I love you. have a great day at work. I would I want to. That's not what they're doing. And it could one kid being able to have access to this phone could be serving as an impediment for another students being able to be able to be successful. You know, when I was in school, we
059used to write notes about each other. You know, you could throw it away. Now, you take a picture, you send it out and put it on Instagram, and it's out there for not only your school, but the entire county, neighboring counties to see. Um, I have middle schoolers sick of it. No big steps maybe this year. Just really hammer hammer hammer hammer hammer. But when we're looking at next year, if we haven't seen any improvements, I I think we we can get some midyear discipline data for you really easily to pull that from educators handbook infinite campus on in January meeting, February meeting. What we've been encountering I know we've already confiscated several suspended several kids from it, but we don't have a lot of data for this year right now on that. >> I
060say this, but is there ever a point and it's just there? I'm not saying all day every day. class changes, lunch periods. Again, if I were on school staff, I would hate me right now. >> It it's expectation during class change in high school and middle school when I was working there. You you need to be outside of your hallway. Post it up somewhere outside of your classroom. Post it up somewhere. If you had that classroom near the bathroom, you were near the bathroom, not necessarily in the bathroom. You could hear because if we're in the bathroom, I know where that's going to go. I mean, we had somebody reported us a couple weeks ago that there were somebody on our favorite site there were cameras, right? So, it's going to get to that. Why
061is that adult in there? But I think we all know if >> because there's cameras in there because they're in the hands of your kids. >> If somebody's posted up outside the bathroom and they start hearing some chaos, that can easily get taken care of. A lot of the things that happen aren't necessarily during class. my experience it's during it's when when things are running quietly on a school day and that somebody the mischievous child is out and about looking for something to get into. >> Um that's that's kind of what happens. >> What was it a couple years ago we had the breaking of the toilet >> the sinks everyone sinks everyone trying to go what is it >> viral we can we that's another area we can address this rocket is is the
062supervision aspect of it. I'm done with that. So, we will change that portion back to what it was. >> Um, and then we'll work on beefing up >> this school year and we'll revisit next year. >> Is there any other policies that >> Yes. >> Um, I was going to see if we kind of do a little reverse to 3620 extracurricular activities and student organizations. um specifically under B students to transfer schools within the school system. And so it kind of mentions, you know, that is this would be the addition to the new policy of the board that student transfers from one school in the school system to another school in the school system will be immediately eligible to participate in athletics at the new school. Otherwise, I think that open door >> current. >>
063Yes. >> If I was one that didn't know Yeah, it's not very clearly well and then down to B1. page. And so it mentions the student must participate in class at the assigned school that is at least half instruction. must pass all classes at that school. However, >> there was one counteract they have to be on campus face to face for 180 minutes. So if you keep going going down I'm sorry special circumstances that's marked out where it says at least one class both. Yeah. >> Sorry. I'm sorry. >> Yes. So that they match. That means it has to be Yes, we're back to B1 D1 And then later on days we need to bother saying calendar days. I would say >> I think 365 implies, >> but why but why not say it? >>
064Paragraph six. school high school. Is there concern about that last surprises? >> Students can appeal a decision from my understanding Mr. Rogers. make an appeal of decision. So they they did away with the appeal process. Okay. It's under It's in soap box we have to deal with this Um consent down there about just over halfway. A person cannot consent. Minors under the age of 16 are incapable of giving consent to sexual activity person. saying on the other side of that is that 16 year olds are capable of having sex with 20 years old or really a policy person. >> Yeah. What would that be? Would that be a safety measure for us. >> I mean, >> yeah, is is your problem with including that sentence or the implication that >> I think this is a
065legal We can double check on that kind of call you let you know that's that is the law of land and that's why they put it in there as well and find out I would say for the school board association added it probably came And I I think it's more of a definition and possibly help with prosecution of individuals violated that law. I can see that aspect of it. I'm with you as far as why do we have to say it? >> Well, and there's another odd implication from right. What about a minor 14? Are they capable of giving consent to who's less than four years old. So, can a minor 12 give consent to a 15y old? They don't again don't fit this definition. So, we should probably check that to see what's required.
066Yes, last Friday. Sure. Well, there's a convoluted history in North Carolina of remote participation board meetings, but there's never been anything that's specifically authorized. And in fact, the school of government has a professor that tended to take the conserve view. It's not authorized. So, any participation even if there's a forum present that may cause a problem. I think most of our schoolboard attorneys thought that was overly cautious didn't pose a problem and the great bulk of the school boards I've represented over the years had people participate remotely and uh I don't think it's ever given rise to a problem. You have to make sure of course that that person can be understood by the public. Public knows what that person is saying. Uh then we had the state of emergency and that specifically allowed remote
067meetings and remote meetings not defined as everybody remote. It's any one person remote which is kind of strange. Uh that specifically allowed that and then that again The question is there a ne a negative implication that outside of an emergency can't have one could take that argu both sides but I I still thought that yeah you could have remote meetings just hadn't been decided then there's this strange case out of county that's was referred that was decided in 2024 that was basis of this new policy from the school board association and it was a strange case where there is a sheriff I just mentioned not to drag this out but the facts are kind of interesting a sheriff died a month or so before the election his successor was appointed for a month then it
068was too late to get him off the election so he he won the election Okay. So then there's another vacancy and as county commissioners and uh there was a statute that seemed to imply that vacancies are appointed by the party political party which that person stands if it's a partisan election and the Democrat one person was appointed interim for the month and then the Democratic party told the that that period going to expire that the day before a board meeting you're going to have a vacancy you have to appoint somebody you appoint our candidate so they called a special meeting less than 48 hours notice fill that vacancy and then they thought about it later and the next day they had another meeting with new board members because this is right after the election the
069new board members went for a different candidate That's why it became important. Was it person going to be appointed by the old board or by the new board? It's unusual fact. Anyway, court of appeal said it was not an emergency meeting. There really is no basis for an emergency. Could have waited and the person who interpreting the North Carolina county commissioners forum statute said a person has to be physically present in order to count as a quum. In that case, they had two members present out of seven. Okay, so it's very unusual fact clearly not a quorum where it said that's not a quorum and that first election is invalid. So then the questions then become well is that going to apply to school boards as well? Probably the statute is their own statute but
070there's no reason to have a different rule. So the schoolboard association came out with guidance. They really can't have these. A person who's remote cannot count toward a quorum that and that was the case in fall 2024 updates and in in the spring pls updates. Then in June, I think it's June might have been May. North Carolina Supreme Court affirmed upheld that decision in county but it said specifically without presidential value which is an odd group. We're going to uphold the result person who is the first election is going to be invalid. The second election is valid but we're not upholding the reason but we're not disavowing the reason either. So now everybody Where are we? And I think that the North Supreme Court was unwilling to go so far as to say you can't
071have remote meetings in person forum. It's just those are unusual fact patterns. Otherwise, why make that statement? Bottom line, we don't know what the answer is still. But we do not have the court of appeals decision as a president that was the underlying basis for these policy changes. Uh so my advice has been I think you can still have remote meetings. I think you can have a remote person be a quorum and vote, but it's uncertain. So, I would never have a really controversial significant decision rest on a situation where you don't have a quorum present. And if you do, then at your next board meeting, ratify what you did. the next meeting. Of course, they could not ratify because they had two different boards. It was it was just an unusual factual pattern. So,
072uh I've not I I've seen a lot of value to people participating. I've not seen it abused. I've not not heard anybody claim that it's undoing democracy. And so uh you if you want to be an abundance of caution or the cautious side, you go with the policy as it's provisions as it's drafted. If you want to be more expansive, you could remove the portions that say you can't have a quorum. You know, a person who's remote cannot be a form. You could delete that provision and it's just up up to the board. >> Well, complicated >> that professor like to air on the side of caution saying that if it wasn't stated as permissive then it was prohibited. I like to say if it wasn't prohibited then it's permissive. Um we have a fairly
073young board with lots of things going on all the time and if I think this is Tiana speaking we're able to join via phone call whatever that looks like. We have sick kids. We're sick because we have kids that bring stuff home. We should be able to I mean from since I've been on the board we I don't recall have had more than one person calling. So as far as the issue of there only being a few here and most be the opponent I haven't seen that in practicality I mean we could theorize all day long but normally it's just one person very rare. Um I don't think it's that critical two of us. >> Um but we would have still had a without us. >> Correct. >> So we can go we change the
074wording back to new policy. >> I think we've always been able our text set up to where the person who called in remotely was able to be heard on the live stream and Pleasure of the board. Any other policies? All right, hearing none. Um, with those additions, I guess we are good on policy updates. Do we have need for close session? >> We do not. >> Awesome. All right. Uh, with that, do we have a motion to adjurnn? >> Motion by Mrs. Rocket. >> Second by Mrs. Taylor. All those in favor indicate by saying I. I. Those opposed, nay. Eyes have it. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you, everyone. Consider