3/6/26 Board Meeting: Authorizing School Closure Study and Defining Scope of Study Recommendations

001Right. Good evening everyone. Thank you for your patience. All right. Our next item on the agenda is public comment. Um, I'd like to read a few housekeeping remarks related to public comment. The board appreciates and and encourages public comment. Board members will listen to the comments and may ask or make clarifying questions or comments, but there will be no general discussion related to the public comments. Since there's no work session items on the agenda, we will only have this public comment period for this board meeting. Public comments will be limited to 2 minutes with one point of adjustment that I will I will discuss momentarily. Additionally tonight, we welcome our families and guests who prefer to speak Spanish or Mandarin. We are pleased to offer Spanish and Mandarin interpretation services. Interpretation will be provided consecutively,

002meaning we will hear a sentence in one language and then the interpreters will will repeat it in English. As a result, we will double the time limit for those speakers to 4 minutes. We kindly request that all speakers please speak clearly and at a moderate pace to allow the interpreters to accurately convey all information to the board and to our guests in the audience. When you are recognized, please come forward and state your name and if you are speaking for an organization, please identify the name of the organization. All right. With that, we will start we will recognize any teacher organizations, SIT, or student groups followed by anyone who has signed up in advance and finally any other persons wishing to make a comment. Do we have any teacher organizations, SIT, or student groups who

003would like to speak? >> You ready? Yeah. Okay. Well, Okay. Since I see multiple speakers, are you each going to take 2 minutes back-to-back or is one person going to speak? >> we'll need that amount of time. Um I I I expect that we can keep it to 2 minutes. >> Okay. All right. >> It's a collective PTA statement. >> Wonderful. Thank you so much. Great. So, 2 minutes. All right. Thank you. Uh my name's Emily Kreutzer. I am president of Glenwood PTA. I'm proud that I remembered to introduce myself first tonight. I'm Meredith Neese. I'm representing Mary Huser and myself as a president of the Estes Hills PTA. I'm Mary Beth Prior. I am not the president of the PTA, but I'm standing in for her tonight for Tana um Byrow. And I'm Tiffany

004Engler and I'm the president of the Estes PTA. Um we all love our school communities and of course do not want to them to close. We are speaking together tonight to show that we are also a larger community. We want our individual and school voices heard and we also want strong leadership and decision-making from our board through this difficult process. To us, this means a few things. Please stay on the schedule recommended by the district. A careful but expeditious process will provide the stability our staff and teachers are asking for. Will allow our communities to grieve and do the work to come together for the future and will avoid deeper staffing cuts that could affect the quality of education district-wide. Delaying this decision further divides our communities, impacts staff morale, and threatens the core educational

005standards of our district. We know this is a financial decision. None of our schools are failing and each is so special for its own reasons. Please use financially grounded data and criteria that align with the financial strain on the district. As a large community, this will help us to support the decision and move forward together in good faith. We trust Dr. Trice, and we are thankful for his leadership. We are trusting the future of our children's education with you. And we're thankful that you're taking that trust seriously. On our end, we are promising to build new welcoming communities for our children, staff, teachers, and families as our schools are reshaped through this process. No single school community will be the same. But with strong leadership from our board and our district, our children will all

006receive an excellent education in wonderful school communities with well-supported teachers and staff. Thank you. >> [applause] [applause] >> Thank you. I see Mr. Link is coming forward. Good evening. My name is Brian Link, and I'm the president of the Chapel Hill-Carrboro Association of Educators. Um as it is now March, I would like to start by celebrating Women's History Month, and I hope this board will come forth with their usual proclamations, right, to honor all the amazing women, right, in our community, in our country, and around the world, um who do so much for us in so many professions, especially education. I want to thank uh this board and the many female leaders on it, um and other local officials, many of whom who took a big step Tuesday towards serving us again or serving us

007for the first time. Um and thank you to our administration um and the powerful women leaders there, my fellow educators whom about 80% are women um in this profession, and to our PTAs who, right, we would not be able to run without the power of women and the organizations that are led by them. And I want to say um as usual, women should lead the way because they made it very easy for me tonight. The speakers ahead and in front of us, ditto. This is what we've been saying, unity. There is engagement, there is collective advocacy, there is social justice action, and ultimately with the healing there will be wellness. And so um with my limited time left, I would just say the alternative is literally on slide eight of the budget presentation which we

008will hear at the very end of this evening, which is if you do not take this action, we are facing, right, immediate cuts. And you can see what that would look like. There are over 30 teachers who are going to have to be reduced um just for reallocations from the reduction in population. And if we don't act now on the school choice with bold leadership, um that number is going to be far greater and it's going to happen far sooner rather than with the planning and runway that our administration headed by Dr. Trice will allow for, right, proper consideration um to be heard. So, with that, thank you to all the women and future women, strong girls in this audience, and I feel very confident um that we are going to come to a collective

009decision that will bring joy ultimately to our community. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Do we have any other teacher organizations, SIT, or student groups? All right. Moving on, um we'll go to our speakers who have signed up in advance. Caroline Porter. Thank you. Good evening. Ni hao. Buenas noches. My name is Carolyn Carter and I've been a district employee for 15 years, all of which I have spent teaching in the dual language program at Glenwood. Hello. My name is Yishan. This is my fifth year working in the Glenwood Dual Language Program. Before I share more about our program, I want to acknowledge that the most difficult part of hearing about the upcoming closer has been our concern for students across the district who are now experiencing uncertainty about their own elementary schools. So, we want

010you to know that we're in this together. So, from us Gators to you Roadrunners and Eagles and Lions and Seahawks, we support you guys. For those of you who might not know, Glenwood is a STEAM Squared school, where the squared M stands not only for math, but also for Mandarin. At Glenwood, families can choose between two program tracks, the world language track and the dual language track. Regardless of the track, all students at our school participate in the Mandarin program. In the dual language track, students receive instruction throughout the day in both Mandarin and English. In the world language track, students receive Mandarin instruction during their foreign language block. Like the district, social justice action is one of my core values. It's why I choose to teach at Glenwood and why [snorts] I send my

011own children there. Glenwood doesn't just offer textbook Mandarin or surface level cultural lessons. There's a critical mass of Chinese American and Chinese immigrant families that allows the entire school community to experience Chinese culture in a real, lived, immersive way. During my time at Glenwood, I've watched Asian children patiently work with non-native children to teach them how to correctly pronounce certain tones. I've listened to a student that speaks fluent Russian and Spanish at home speak beautiful Chinese at school. Sofia Gonzalez When you walk into the Glenwood cafeteria, there's no Asian side. Children of all racia- races and backgrounds sit together at tables that they choose. A lived example of integration, belonging, and cross-cultural friendship. And I have witnessed children from all walks of life learn, sing, and perform Gong Xi Gong Xi more times than I

012can imagine. These moments are not just snapshots in the day-to-day of a child's life. They're the foundational pieces that help to erode the ongoing negative impact of racism that still permeates our schools today and can help to close an ever-widening achievement gap in this district. That's what makes this program so unique and valuable and is another reason why it's important for us to stay together. We expect that this program, which includes our entire school community of students and staff, will remain intact and continue as a whole program rather than being dismantled. >> Thank you FOR YOUR TIME. >> [applause] [applause] >> FOLLOWED BY TIGER SONG. HELLO, MY name is Anna Della Torre. I'm a parent at Glenwood, part of our PTA, and a parent of three children in the district. I wanted to just briefly

013say how much our program means to me and to our family, and I think it's an amazing way for children to learn languages. My husband was born in the Philippines. He moved to the United States when he was 11. He was thrust into a school where he didn't speak English. All the other kids spoke English, and he just had to figure it out. The way that our students get to learn, where the Mandarin-speaking students get to learn English right along with their friends as their friends learn Mandarin, they can speak both languages together as they play on the playground at lunch. It's just such an amazing program. When I speak to friends in other states, they've never even heard of programs like this. It's just very special, and it's amazing that our world language and

014dual language programs get to be together. I just wanted to speak for our school. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Shire For the Mandarin immersion students. This is Shrey. He's a second grader at FPG. Um I think uh FPG should remain together in one school because we are the only fully bilingual school in the district. Also, FPG keeps a special Spanish-speaking community with people who want to be in community with them. We talk to each other in both languages, so everyone is included. Your skin can be any color, and every culture is welcome at our school. Ms. Yelli, our culture teacher, teaches us about all of the cultures. Please keep our school together because it makes me happy to be there with my friends. >> [applause] [applause] >> Hola, mi nombre es Isaiah >> Oh, hold

015on. Hold on. You can lift the microphone up. >> [laughter] >> There you go. So, um I'm just going to do Spanish, and he's going to do English. Hola, mi nombre es Coupland Gracias por esto esta noche y espero los puede convencer la decisión correcta y no cerrar FPG B. La primera la primera razón por la que FPG B debería permanecer abierto es porque aprendemos a ser aliados. Aprendí esta palabra en segundo grado para defender a las personas que son diferentes a mí. Nosotros nos preocupamos um por los y celebramos que nosotros es único. La segunda razón por la que FPG B In conclusion, it's called a family for a reason. >> [applause] [applause] >> Hello, my name is Gabriel Benavente. Gabe, thank you for letting me read this tonight and I hope it persuades

016you to make the right decision and not close FPG. One reason FPG should stay open is because we learn to be an ally. I learned this word in second grade to stand up for people who are different than me. We care about others and celebrate their uniqueness. We second The second reason FPG should stay open is because bullying does not exist here. People from all cultures learn to appreciate one another. A friend moved here from Mexico last year and had a lot of friends on his first day. The The third reason we must keep FPG open is because it feels like home and and a safe place for everyone. Families that speak Spanish at home can be a close part of the school community, and we can learn the language that our family speak. My

017friend Manuel couldn't be here tonight, but here is a Here is a quote from him. I wouldn't be able to read and write at such a high level in in the language my family speaks without Oh, I wouldn't be able to read and write at a such a high level in the language my family speaks without FPG. The final reason or our final reason we must keep this beautiful community at FPG open is because we learn to start with hello and not be afraid to share our voice and kindness with others. In conclusion, it is called la familia for a reason. We may not be related by blood, but we are related by our hearts. >> [applause] >> My name is Lucila Perez, and I'm currently a sixth grader at McDougal Middle School in the

018dual language program. Until last year I attended at FPG. That school is really special to me because it helped me build a strong foundation to grow from. It really helped that the whole school was bilingual and had a such a strong sense of community. It felt like everyone understood each other. For example, you could ask any student what their class was doing for Hispanic Heritage Month and they would know. Because it was something the whole school celebrated together. At FPG it felt like my culture was not only seen but truly celebrated. Now at my new school inside and outside of the dual language program classes, sometimes people ask, "What is Hispanic Heritage Month?" Or say things like, "Who cares?" But it does matter. Other cultures matter and learning about them is something FPG does really

019well. At FPG al- also helped me build my confidence because the teachers and principals always encouraged our ideas. I had opportunities to perform at the stage at UNC and speak at our fifth grade stepping up ceremony. These Those experiences helped helped me become a leader and gave me the confidence to speak up when I see see something isn't right. At FPG FPG is a special school because of its strong community they create together. I truly hope my younger sisters get the chance and experience of it, too. Thank you for your time. >> [applause] [applause] >> Buenas noches. My name is Rosa Maria Castillo Shoulder and my daughter is in kindergarten at FPG. When we moved here 2 years ago, we hired an educational consultant. We chose Chapel Hill. We chose higher taxes. We chose FPG.

020And it has been the best experience for our family. In the 16 years as a physician in the US, this is the first time my family and I feel that we belong in a community that appreciates diversity, recognizes the importance of equity and inclusion. Let's remember, you're in the business of education and not in the business of building maintenance. How come are you considering closing a school without a plan to preserve the value of the program beyond the closure of the building? If the problem is funding driven by low enrollment, how's it possible that you're considering closing the school that is fully enrolled with a waiting list? Breaking the school apart will drive enrollment even lower because parents will take their kids somewhere else. Further, education will suffer because the value of this school is

021in the bilingual community as a whole. If the problem is funding driven by low enrollment, how's it possible that you're considering closing a school that brings guaranteed and secure revenue? Keeping this school together will reduce costs. You have to consider economies of scale where you can leverage common staff and resources like a full bilingual library, bilingual psychologist, teachers, all together in one place. You say programs will continue, but what does that even mean? Where are you going to put 500 kids? This school is so successful because the community of the community it is. If you divide this school, you will destroy the community and increase costs. For people that are religious, this is like closing a church and dividing up their parishioners in other churches. It will never be the same. With everything happening in

022our country, is this what you want your legacy to be? The headline will read, "People voted to rebuild the school. Instead, the board decides to close the most diverse and Spanish bilingual school affecting minorities and reducing enrollment even more in the district." Help us trust you again. Confirm your commitment to keep our school open and together. Gracias. >> [applause] [applause] >> Hello and thank you. I'm Amanda Brady from FPG. I'm speaking as a teacher and also a mother, um but I'm also speaking on behalf for many teachers and parents who are not up here. I carry the weight of their words also. Um we were encouraged last meeting to hear the overall public school support, um and we want every school to see the best outcome. For FPG Bilingue, we would like to ask plainly

023that you please not break apart our school and our program. We ask that our fully integrated cohesive full school dual language magnet program be be maintained. If our building is closed and we are not moved together into another one, the result will be a community purposefully dis- divided and dismantled. The decision was made over 13 years ago to form exactly what we have now, a full magnet dual language school, and I'm fortunate to have been a part of it from the beginning. It came to be for the very reasons that we see a successful program today. For a true immersive cultural and language experience elevating and honoring a culture. For the purposes of fully integrated curriculum, our BOOF units or biliteracy unit frameworks that center learning standards in reading, writing, science, and social studies around

024projects designed in both English and Spanish. And those require PLC collaboration with the entire grade level team daily and also cross grade level language bridging. Um also for the purpose of a bilingual staff at all levels. Teachers, TAs, cafeteria, specials, library, front office, clinic. Um for student support services offered in both languages, mental health support, behavior support, health services, social worker services, and ML staff. For the purpose of intervention and EC to be given in both languages. For school wide social emotional content in both languages. And for school wide programs and events to be culturally responsive in nature and authentic in execution. For cross grade level activities like our compañero um classes. Our full school dual language program that is well-established and thriving will qualitatively suffer if we are separated from each other. We cannot

025divide our students. Our school has well-established roots in this district and we are bringing people to the district. Breaking that up would be counterproductive to our program and also to the enrollment decline. Thank you. Ma'am, I'm Carrie Dixon. Let us unite in a spirit of goodwill towards one another. Let us lay aside our differences and unify ourselves as one district, seeking find the best possible solution. Change can be difficult and change can be joyful. And it is necessary in the situation in which we find ourselves. Isn't there enough unrest in this world presently? How can we be peacekeepers locally? Let us combine energy and intellect and logic to move in a forward motion. Let us leave behind strife and confusion. They are watching us, the same children we are expecting to be kind and generous.

026Who and what can we become together? Thank you. >> [applause] >> Hi. I'm Jennifer Allred and I'm standing on behalf of myself and all of pre-K teachers at Ephesus. As you contemplate new discussions regarding potential school closures, we respectfully ask you that you carefully take consideration of the approximately 60 pre-K students currently served at Ephesus. Ephesus is a neighborhood school and many of our students walk or bike to school daily. As a Head Start pre-K program, we serve families with low incomes and transportation is a significant concern for many of our parents. Having a school within walking distance that serves low-income families is critically important. Many of our parents are already making difficult decisions about how to keep utilities on and bills paid. Adding the burden of transportation to another school creates an additional challenge

027that is neither practical nor equitable. Parents need accessible schooling options that allow them to walk their children to school and still make it to work to support their families. While redistricting to another school may seem like an option, it raises serious concerns about accessibility. Currently, approximately 2/3 of Ephesus pre-K students live within the walking zone of Ephesus. Without guaranteed transportation, many families may not be able to attend another site consistently, if at all. Pre-K is the foundation of the K-12 educational journey, and our team is committed to continuing the progress we're making with our youngest learners. Part of that is bridging the gap between pre-K to kindergarten. These are early years, they're critical, and Ephesus serves a large population of children at this essential stage of development. Ephesus holds deep meaning for our community for

028many reasons, one of which is our strong pre-K program. If Ephesus were to close, many of our students would be placed at a significant disadvantage if they must attend a different school. We respectfully ask that you thoughtfully include the impact on the pre-K population in your decision-making process for school closure. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Hello members of the board. My name is Juno and this is my classmate Charlotte. We are fourth graders in the Mandarin dual language program at Glenwood Elementary. Charlotte's family moved to Chapel Hill because of this Chinese immersion program. Learning Chinese every day is very important to both of our families. It is one of the main reasons we chose this district. >> We want to respectfully correct a misunderstanding we have heard in the conversations about school closures. When people

029say they will preserve dual language programs, it sometimes sounds like they mean they will only preserve one small part of these programs. But Glenwood's Chinese program is bigger than the 250 kids in the immersion program. Half of our school has half-day Chinese immersion, but the entire school learns Chinese as a second language. And the whole school celebrates Chinese culture together, like Lunar New Year, Mid-Autumn Festival, and many other celebrations. Even though some students with Chinese heritage choose the non-immersion classrooms, they still benefit from Chinese teachers, community members, and celebrating their culture at school. That is what makes Glenwood special. It is not just a program, it is a whole school wide community. To preserve what has made our school successful, we ask that whatever this program continues, whether in its current building or housed in

030a new building, that it stays together as the full rich community is today. It brought families like ours to Chapel Hill and it can bring many more families to our district in the future. Thank you so much for listening. >> [applause] [applause] >> Hello again. My name is Steve Efird. I'm the PE teacher at Ephesus Elementary School. Um as educators, we are leaders in our buildings and as board members, you are the leaders of the leaders and I just want to remind you that your words have power and influence and your words have power uh to do great things and to inform but they also have the power to do harm. Um and Ms. Fiester Forner, um two meetings in a row you have addressed our neighborhood schools and you have said we also need

031to think about not only neighborhood schools but also those down the street and around the way. Uh and how you have said that has implied to me that you don't think we are willing to do that uh or that you think we want to push others further to the fringes and as an educator not building for the last 6 years, I can say that we would happily accept as many students as possible that could fit inside of our hallways. Um we have students that go to amazing spring break trips with their families. We also have students that are worried on a Friday afternoon because they don't know where they're going to sleep that weekend. We are a Title 1 school. Uh we have affordable housing within walking distance. Uh and every single student who comes

032through our door is known and loved. That is evident in the relationships that are built in our building and that is evident in the data which shows improvement from all student groups. Um these comments bother me and concern me because they're inaccurate and they also concern me because I feel like they represent a broader uh misrepresentation of some of our schools and communities and maybe a misunderstanding of what we are all about. And I urge you as an entire board, please get to know us as schools, as communities, as people. Uh I know that we are looking at numbers. This is dollars and cents, but please treat us as more than line items on a budget and more than data input into a rubric and truly with the time we have left, get to know

033us. In short order, a vote is coming up to eliminate two of us two of us off the playing field. And I ask that in the time you have left, you please seek to get to know us better. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Hi, I'm Mallory Turner Lowers. Um thank you for your work on the criteria. I appreciate that the list has become more comprehensive, but there's still one major omission, which is housing growth. Right now, it's not being explicitly considered and it needs to be. I know some people believe new housing won't come online fast enough or in large enough numbers to material if materially affect enrollment, but I don't think that's correct. Yes, Chapel Hill was anti-growth for years, but that's not the current reality. The pipeline has changed. New housing is expected

034to come online at a much faster pace over the next 3 years than we've seen in a long time. And this is not just about one or two projects. In the 2024 to 2025 annual report, Community Home Trust noted that they'll be adding more than 200 affordable for sale homes and rental apartments over the next 3 years, including homes in a number of new developments. Based on their past experience of selling and renting affordable housing in our community, they estimate that this new housing will bring 150 to 200 additional school age children to the district, as well as families of the district's teachers. That's significant on its own, but those units make up less than 10% of the total housing expected to come online. So, the other 90%? We're talking about thousands of homes across

035multiple projects, including a mix of housing types and more family-friendly options than we've seen in recent years. Even if only a modest share of those homes have children, that still means real enrollment impact. So, my request is simple, to please add the criterion that such as expected housing growth. The board should not make a decision as serious as school closure while using incomplete assumptions about future growth. If there's uncertainty about the numbers, ask the local experts. Ask the town planning department, the Community Home Trust, or at the very least, ask Carolina Demography for updated projections that were supposed to include housing because the figures currently being used do not. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. We don't need a perfect prediction of exactly which homes will have exactly how many children, but

036we do need to acknowledge the reality. Ignoring expected housing growth entirely will produce projections that are far off. Thank you so much. >> [applause] >> Good evening, and thank you for the work you're doing on these criteria. My name is Melissa Merz. One item on the list stood out to me as especially confusing. Building adjacency to middle or high schools. I urge the board to remove that criterion and replace it with something more meaningful such as programmatic and academic impact. The reason is simple. Adjacency is not inherently a benefit. For many families, having elementary students in close proximity to older students raises concerns, not advantages, especially around traffic, age-appropriate campus dynamics, and safety. So, if adjacency is being treated as a default positive, I think that is too simplistic. More importantly, I suspect adjacency is

037really being used as a proxy for something else. If the board's actual goal, as the notes for this item said, is to consider whether a school's location supports academic acceleration, shared programming, or other educational opportunities, then the criteria should say that directly. A criterion called programmatic and academic impact would be much clearer, much more honest, and much more useful. It would also address another concern I have heard repeatedly in this process. Some board members have said programs will be protected, but which programs? And protected in what way? Without explicit consideration of programmatic impact, there is a real risk that some programs will be included in that promise while others are not, or that programs may be harmed unintentionally, simply because no one was required to evaluate them. I want to make a specific plug for

038programs that serve our most vulnerable or under-resourced children. So, my request is this. Please remove building adjacency to middle or high schools and replace it with programmatic and academic impact, so the board is evaluating what actually matters instead of relying on a vague proxy. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Good evening. My name is Caitlin Saunders. I've spoken with several of you. Um nice to see you face-to-face. Uh I'm the mother of a kindergartner at Ephesus and a 4-year-old who will be hopefully joining Ephesus in the fall of 2027. Um I want to offer one specific example to follow up on Melissa's comments of why the criteria need to include programmatic and academic impact. The pre-K and Head Start program at Ephesus that you heard about earlier. Strong pre-K programs are a key part of the

039enrollment pipeline into our K-12 schools. At Ephesus, this issue is especially important because Ephesus has the district's largest pre-K program and the only EC pre-K teachers. My understanding is also that Ephesus was selected in part because other facilities were not adequate for Head Start compliance. That means this is not a program that can simply be moved around without serious practical consequences. So when I hear statements that quote programs will be protected, I think a very important question remains unanswered. Does that promise explicitly include pre-K and Head Start? Because if the answer is yes, then that needs to be clearly evaluated and protected in the criteria. And if the answer is no, then the public deserves to know that, too. This is why the board should make should adopt a criterion focused on programmatic and academic

040impact. Without that, essential programs can be overlooked. Not because anyone intended harm, but because no one asked the right questions. So my request is that you explicitly consider the impact on pre-K and Head Start and that you add programmatic and academic impact as a criterion before moving forward. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Good evening. I am Miriam Wieber and I am a parent of Ephesus. I want to speak tonight about something that remains absent from the criteria list and that is walkability and walk zones. School closures conversations often get framed around spreadsheets. Facilities utilization, maintenance costs, they matter. But walk zones matter, too. Because they're not just a convenience, they are an asset. Walk zones support student well-being, neighborhood cohesion, and family connection to schools. They reduce traffic at arrival and dismissal, something we all

041can appreciate. And they >> [clears throat] >> even when not every child in a walk zone walks every day, walk zones still reduce the number of students the district is required to transport, lowering both financial costs and operational strain. Put simply, a large walk zone is good for the district's bottom line. That is why I find it surprising that walkability has been left out of the criteria. Especially consider considering it was discussed frequently and explicitly in the 2014 round of disclosure discussions. Round of closure discussions, excuse me. Families in the district care deeply about the community and connections created through a neighborhood school. For many of us, it's not secondary. It's a defining feature of a strong public school system. I would like to gently push back on the idea that walkability is incompatible with

042equity. Athletics is already a naturally diverse community. Its walk zones include town [clears throat] homes, apartments, and single family. So, this is not a question of choosing between walkability and diversity. We have already proven right here that they are indeed compatible. If walk zones are eliminated or reduced, there's real impact. It affects transportations, family routines, neighborhood life, and the overall appeal of the district. So, my request tonight is that the board add walk zone impact to its criterion. Or at minimum, expand the transportation criteria to explicitly include walkability, such as transportation cost and walk zone impact. Because it matters to families, changes the daily experience of our students, and affects the district's bottom line, then it simply belongs in the criteria. Thank you. >> [applause] >> All right. Hello, good evening. My name is Chris

043Fresquezito. I'm the father of two current and one future student at F. S. S. Elementary. Thank you to the board, Dr. Trice, and especially to CHCCS staff for all of the effort that it's taken to get us to this point. I'm [snorts] coming here to make two points, which I hope that I can make succinctly. First, regardless of the specific criteria that you land on this evening, I encourage you to apply them evenly to all 11, I did say 11 elementary schools, and do so transparently. I think that making your choice in this way is the only way to run a process that does not favor anyone school. Some of those schools might fall out immediately, and that's fine, but going through the motions are a really important part of applying a standard transparent process.

044So, everyone in this room supports schools. I would wager that somewhere around 100% of this room voted yes on the school bond in 2024. We believe that voting for the bond meant we would not close any schools. We were told that these funds would be used to either improve our facilities or to build entirely new schools. You're saying now that there are too few elementary school students coming into the district, and the board cannot honor these commitments as they were stated. That may well be true, but we're in a new decision now, and this is a new conversation than the one from two years ago. So, in this case, the most defensible process, the one that maximizes transparency, minimizes the opportunities for confusion or for tension between school communities, is one where you do apply

045all of the selected criteria to all of the schools simply to facilitate a clear conversation. I encourage you to do so. The second point is following up on some of the points about housing that people have made a moment ago. Uh in the last 15 years were a period during which an enormous influx of families came to the triangle, but not specifically to Chapel Hill. All right, not specifically to Chapel Hill. A lot of that has to do with housing. Chapel Hill had very few homes to attract those people, but as you can see just walking and driving around the town, that is completely different now. Uh in a recent article that I helped contribute to, we tallied somewhere around 2,200 school homes to come online in the next 3 years. That's more than the

046total number of units in Southern Village and Meadowmont combined. Overall, that ends up translating to somewhere around 500 students, which is many millions of dollars for the school. That needs to be tallied in really explicitly. Thank you. >> [applause] [applause] >> All right. Um good evening. What you all do is is really really hard, but also really important, so I thank you for doing it. Um my oldest is a first-grader at Seawell, and I love our school, but I'm I'm here tonight because I believe in public education, and I want a thoughtful path forward for all students. Uh Dr. Trices and others have discussed have described this moment as a crossroads, and so my question for you is where are we going? Uh closures may help the current budget, but we need a long-term vision

047for a functioning school district. Will it improve the education quality? Will it make it a better place to work? Um will it draw in more families? We're in real danger of doing the exact opposite. Closures should be part of a comprehensive plan, but not the strategy. And it's troubling to close schools, disrupt communities, and lay off staff first, and then build a vision. I hate the analogy, but if my business is not doing well, um and I cut staff, and I close locations, that's not a long-term solution. It's a stopgap. And so to remain viable, we have to evolve and rethink our value proposition. We have more than 30 local charter and private schools that are attracting families for Montessori, nature-based, project-based learning, etc. We should be working to meet this demand with the incredible

048assets and teachers that we have in this district. For context, we came from Durham where each school has a local base and a magnet program that draws more widely. So, a school like Seawell that offers pre-K and is surrounded by protected forest could use its outdoor classrooms, gardens, critter corner, and offer something unique. Programs like these benefit current students and attract families that are currently choosing to go elsewhere. We've seen the successes and benefits that are provided by our language programs. That's just one example of what we could offer. And so, this is our chance to reshape the future of our schools. Excuse me. I urge the board to make closure decisions within a broader plan and to consider the future we want to build for our learners beyond just buildings. Thank you. >> [applause]

049[applause] >> Good evening, board members. Thank you for the opportunity to share. My name is Carrie Draper and I'm a teacher at Seawell Elementary. I'm here tonight to represent my school community and the students that I teach. I asked my first graders this week what they love about Seawell and here are some of the answers that I got. I love every part of the day. I love it because you get to make friends when you don't have them. I like that we have a critter corner. I love feeding the goats. At the end of the day, all of the schools up for closure have things that we love about them and make them unique. This is a financial decision that so many people have said and anecdotes we know won't determine who stays open and

050who closes. Having to close schools is not unique to just Chapel Hill. This is a reality that many districts face around the country. I ask that you look at how other states and districts have handled school closures successfully and use that as guidance in this process. I ask that you objectively use the criteria that you've selected here tonight. Let that be your driving force to make this decision and be aware of the voices that may not be the most vocal. While this is a financial decision to make, it is deeply emotional and personal. Change is necessary, but it is also difficult. Our schools are places where we spend a large portion of our time for both adults and children. It's where we form memories and relationships. Uncertainty is difficult. I ask that you give us

051plenty of time and are honest about the processes that will happen when schools close. Be up front about redistricting, staff jobs and transfers, and all of the things in between. At the end of the day, as schools are consolidated, we will have to go to school and work with other school communities, some of whom are fighting for their school to stay open and are experiencing the same uncertainties. I ask that as a board, you set an example of integrity and unity that our families and staff can follow. I stand in support of Seoul and I thank you for your consideration. >> [applause] [applause] >> Excuse me. Hi y'all. Um, I'm a parent of a first grader at Seoul and I really appreciate the opportunity for public comment, but it is important to recognize that being

052here, speaking in front of you all, requires folks to arrange child care, miss bedtime, miss work, and some who come from immigrant backgrounds at this time fear speaking in public. So tonight, I'm here speaking for one member of the Seoul community who has voiced this concern. So here is their comment. My children have been attending Seoul for the past 4 years. The environment where they can interact with nature and animals is truly special. It is also wonderful that the school is located next to the middle and high schools. The teachers and staff warmly welcome students from Asian countries like ours, and that inclusive environment means so much to us. Everything about Seawell has been wonderful. Our children have grown into kind and hard-working students. They love their school, their teachers, and their friends very much.

053We sincerely hope that this wonderful Seawell Elementary School will continue to be an irreplaceable place for many diverse children in the future. We believe that Seawell is also one of the important reasons why people from all over the world choose to come to Chapel Hill. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Good evening, members of the board. My name is Tiffany Angler, and I'm a Roadrunner for life. I first want to thank you and the district staff for the adjustments made to the criteria since the previous version. One of the biggest concerns we continue to hear from families, based on board comments in the past meetings, is are schools named as candidates for closure to be exempt because of bond promises, program considerations, or recent sunk costs? If that perception is inaccurate, additional clarity around how these

054schools would truly be evaluated alongside those that don't have those intricacies within the criteria would be very helpful. It brings me back to the value of showing how all 11 elementary schools measure to achieve a full analysis. Additional comments on the criteria are show how hardship and equity impacts will be evaluated for students receiving Title 1 services. Show how adjacency to middle or high schools align with our strategic plan. And show the actual outcome of staff positions eliminated after two closures and possible program movement, should they be identified as part of a closure plan. Because if dismantling two communities through school closures are being presented as an alternative to immediate staffing reductions, this should be in the criteria. Thank you for your time and for your continued work on this issue. >> [applause] >> Good

055evening. Uh my name is Darsh Kathari and I'm a parent of a second grader at Soul Elementary. I appreciate the sensitivity the board and district have have had around school closure. I recognize that this decision for closing schools is a difficult one, that is rooted around financial health of the school district. I ask that the board reflect on the following comments as we move through this process to limit the amount of irreparable damage the decision will have a have on the district at large. Number one, uniqueness. We've heard from many schools about how what makes each school very unique. We're all unique in our own way and I think that it go it goes to show you how tight our community is. Second, what is the vision of the What is the vision of the

056district? If we close schools, what's next? What is what's next on the docket? Show us what the next steps will be. Third, transparency. I think it's really important that we hear about all of the changes prior to public comment going forward. Having public comment before hearing about the criteria at the end of this meeting goes against what transparency might be. And last is unity. You can tell by the by the number of people here that they are all fighting for their school. There's already irreparable damage happening to this district because of the schools that have already been identified. I ask the board to start working on unity now, not after the schools are are are closed because that's going to be important to building this community and keeping this community together. Thank you. >> [applause]

057>> Good evening. Thank you board members and Dr. Troy. Um, I've been to several of these meetings now and I really appreciate all the time that you guys have put in. I think I'll echo a lot of the things that people have said here. We want this decision to not be reactive, but as productive as possible. Um, and I think a lot of us would like to avoid having to do this anytime in the near future, so it has to be financially impactful. And I think um, I know there's hard decisions you guys have to make, but we have to make it count. And um, I I really appreciate all your time and I know we've talked about our schools, but I do love to hear more of the community building here and I think

058if we follow the criteria that you guys have set and the criteria speaks for itself, that in and of itself will start the healing. So, I appreciate your time. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Michael Fisher still here? Thank you. Good evening. Ni hao. Muy buenas noches. I think you can tell from my accent that I didn't benefit from a world language program as a child, but I want to talk about my daughter who's a kindergartner at Glenwood and my four-year-old who asks every week when she can start at Glenwood. Um, and I just wanted to just tell you that, you know, my daughter Ellie is thriving at Glenwood in the world language program. So, she's not dual language, but she gets uh, uh, Mandarin every day. She gets specials every day and she's thriving. She's

059getting incredible support with math, um, you know, that I wish I got when I was her age. Um, and this is a kid who never wanted to put her shoes on. Uh, and all I have to do is tell her that she's going to be late for Glenwood Gators and she can't wait to go get her shoes on and get in the car. And this opportunity is unique in the district. I don't know of any other places that have both a dual language and a world language program combined with steam for all students. Um I feel incredibly blessed to have this opportunity and I definitely support any initiative to retain and enhance this kind of exceptional education that we have with our uh dual language and our world language and our multilingual magnet programs um

060here in the district. And I don't have an answer for you. I just know that I don't want to tell my daughter that we can't go to Glenwood Gators anymore. I don't want to tell her that she can't learn Chinese with Mr. Ma, that she can't do steam in her specials anymore. So, I'm just urging us to find a way to maintain all the aspects of the program, the inclusivity of what we have. Uh do what we have to do to change buildings, systems, funding mechanisms, district maps, uh get those uh new families into affordable housing, and get those additional voters voters for a future bond issue. Um do what we got to do to fix the shortfall while retaining all these great services and programs at these institutions, not parceling them out, not piecemealing

061them, and not doing anything to disrupt the inclusivity and the wonderful opportunities that we have here. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Good evening. My name is Ben Miller. I'm the parent of a Gullett Elementary kindergartner, but I'm going to share the comment of another parent at our school who uh like my friend Scott shared um was concerned about speaking in a public uh forum like this because of their family's status in this country. So, this is their statement. Um I understand the difficult situation CHCCS is facing due to declining enrollment. If school closures ultimately become necessary, I believe it is essential to clearly demonstrate how the district will guarantee the continued quality of education. One major reason many PTAs oppose the proposed changes is that CHCCS has not yet clearly explained how educational standards will

062be maintained. In the materials previously shared, the focus was on available capacity to absorb students from closed schools, but there was limited discussion of how instructional quality would be preserved or enhanced. Many families with school-age children choose to live in Chapel Hill specifically because of the district's reputation for academic excellence. If CHCCS can no longer guarantee a high standard of education, some families, particularly those with greater financial means, may choose to relocate or enroll their children in private schools. This could further accelerate enrollment decline and create a negative cycle that threatens the district's long-term stability. I sincerely appreciate the difficult decisions you are facing and thank you for your consideration. >> [applause] >> Um Good evening, members of the board. My name is Tondo Wu, uh and I'm the parent of What? Um a student

063at Glenwood Elementary. Um speaking from my own experience, uh my son, Xavier, um it's a very very personal and a specific experience. So, um he can now crack jokes jokes and express himself confidently and easily in both English and Chinese. Something that still amazes me um because as a first-generation immigrant, I often fumble, as you can see right now, uh with my words uh when speaking speaking publicly. Um our family has become deeply integrate as part of Glenwood community. The teachers, staff, um the students and the family support one another and create a environment where children um feel confident, safe, and encouraged to grow. I respectfully ask the board that any decisions about the school closure be made with transparency and um and and clear tangible criteria that the community can understand. Um if the

064changes must happen, um please also consider ways to minimize disturbance to the entire school community, including teachers, staff, students, um and families who rely on the stability that schools provide. Uh thank you for your time and for listening. >> [applause] >> Hi, thank you so much for listening to all of our comments. I actually think we're taking a five to seven-year view, you might need to build an elementary school. And let me explain what I mean by that. So, I moved from the Rust Belt here to Chapel Hill because of the growth of the larger metro area, but there was no new housing. The only reason we got to live in Chapel Hill because we could afford it. And the uh sort of anti-development town council that was in place we moved here lost or

065changed their minds. And we're seeing one of the other parents mentioned 2,200 new housing units, that's lowballing it. Just in the next 2 and 1/2 years from 2010 to 2021, we looked at net new housing, it was only 200 units. And the demographic study that was done did not take into effect at all the impacts of new housing. And just the other day, an Estes Hills a 700 home uh Weaver Dairy complex got approved 8 to 1. Uh that there's never been more momentum in this community for housing to make it more equitable and fair for all and not just wealthier people that can afford to live here. So, I just think that before you close any schools, the new development impacts of a pro-housing uh town council and just talking to that council about,

066"Hey, we need to get X number of new students. Let's look at that new housing projects that we could do to bring all kids here that deserve a great education and not have to close any schools." But, if one does have to close, just listening to the people in this room, if all of the programs can be preserved, because I hear from everyone wanting to preserve the programs, if you did close one school, uh one of the board members mentioned the harmful past history of of Glenwood being associated with segregation. Uh and I think also the lack of a walk zone for Glenwood would make that one the logical school to close if you kept all the programs. I think you could keep all of the programs and close that one school. And then financially

067in 5 to 7 years with all of the massive new housing coming on board, I think that you might need to add it back. Just because of all kinds of things like Carolina North that it's going in, that's right next to Sea Well. So, I don't think anybody's school really should be closed from a 5 to 7-year window. I understand the short-term uh you know, funding constraints that are you know, you have to deal with. Uh but, one school might help with that. Thank you. Good evening, board members. Uh thank you. There you go. Yeah. I'm really appreciate that here talk about the education. I'm a single mom. I've been to New Zealand and Canada and Europe and also Japan. I'm I'm from Guangdong. I'm a mother. What I really care about is education. And

068I really care about is the communicate with China. Just like we do not cannot speak English just a little bit. I'm sorry. I'm Uh yeah. A little bit excited, but what what I want to say is uh when the child they are young, they learn um Chinese. When I do the Tik Tok in China, I do the video that is a most popular one because everybody in China they saw the video. They really really love that. And they said, "Oh, America is learning from us the culture." They said, "Oh, why we do not celebrate for the Christmas?" You know, in China our culture is sometimes closed. For for example, Tik Tok is separate. China and America is separate. We cannot see all over the culture in in China's Tik Tok. We can only say speak

069can can see the culture from all over the world but except China. So, what we know is we have a lot of misunderstood between each other. So, we should have the really good consider about the education because education means develop. So, we will have a lot of difficult things. That means we needed to close it? I don't think so. We need to face the problem and developed and to feel to deal with the difficult, and we will get more developed. And that is why America is so famous all over the world, because America learn all over the world's culture. And so in the future when I see the, you know, first of being program, I feel really uh happy. Because I saw so many American children they can um sing the song of the program

070in Chinese. Yeah, that's really make me feel happy, because in the future Thank you. >> [applause] >> Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Lei. I'm a district parent. I have one question. Has the board considered the study criteria and scope tonight? When the district says academic programs will be preserved, what does that mean in practice? Will the study look at whether the program can really continue for students in a stable way? Will students able to continue year to year in as a cohort? The right teachers in place? Enough enrollment to sustain the program? And a clear understanding of how long recovery would take if the program is disrupted? I ask because keeping the the name of the program is not the same as preserving the program for students. Thank

071you. What's it What's your >> Thank you. >> [applause] >> I'm Iris Vance and I'm a mom at Glenwood. I want to share with the board that in our current political climate, this is the absolute wrong time to close Glenwood. As you've heard, Glenwood is home to a dual language Mandarin immersion program and serve the high number of children who were born outside the US or who come from immigrant families. My own children's friends have spoken about how meaningful it is to them to have teachers who can pronounce their names correctly and understand their cultural heritage. Taking that away, especially now when our federal government is abusing its power and sending masked thugs to tear immigrant children from their families, sends a devastating message about whose belonging we value. As a community, we should be

072linking arms to protect these children, not dismantling one of the places where they feel most safe and seen. The case for keeping Glenwood open is not only moral, it is academic. Educational research consistently shows that dual language programs shrink rather than widen gaps in educational attainment across socioeconomic lines. Glenwood is helping to level an increasingly lopsided playing field and that is a broader social good we should be investing in, not eliminating. It is also important to look at the data before us. Glenwood has lower cost to make needed school improvements, is at full enrollment, and continues to draw families like my own to live in Chapel Hill specifically attend to attend there, helping to correct the declining enrollment that prompted the school closure considerations in the first place, and it has great test scores. That

073success reflects the extraordinary work of our teachers, the leadership of our principal, and the vibrant educational culture they have built together. I urge you to keep Glenwood open not only as a beacon of academic excellence and but as a beacon of community and welcoming at a time when those values matter more than ever. I think the same considerations apply for FPG, and I would encourage you to strike both schools from consideration for closure on moral grounds. >> [applause] >> Hi, good evening. Uh my name is Molly Chen. I'm a parent from Glenwood. Um So, this week I was actually talking to an old friend. I'm from San Jose, California, and she mentioned to me that um our elementary school was closing along with five or six actually in our district in San Jose. And I

074was like, "Oh, we're we're kind of experiencing something like that here in Chapel Hill." She's like, "Well, you know, declining enrollment, old buildings, like a lot of the same factors." And I know across the US we're dealing with a lot of the same things. But, what really struck me about um my conversation with my childhood friends was we were I was like, "What happened to the Safeway next to you know, what shopping centers and different local businesses?" And And sadly, um I think what is happening is that a lot of local businesses and a lot of local communities, playgrounds also closed because naturally that's a consequence of closing a place like an elementary school. I know these are really hard decisions, so that's not really what I'm up here arguing, but um I do wonder

075since there's been a lot of conversation about what's, you know, what's happening with the bond that we voted for, you know, why aren't we possibly considering putting a bond for um to vote and avoiding the closures for now because I do wonder if, you know, I'm driving by Glenwood Elementary and I not only see that Glenwood has closed, but I see the businesses around there closed and the gas station's closed and you know, it just becomes an empty space. I will say one of the elementaries that closed, what took place in its substitute, a golf course. And that's a very different feel from an elementary school. So, um thank you for all of your work and thank you for all your time. >> [applause] [clears throat] >> Uh good evening. My name is Taylor Raffield.

076I'm a parent of a third grader at Estes Hills and a rising kindergartner. Um so, I just wanted to talk a little bit uh in my allotted time about um uncertainty. And the uncertainty that having these decisions made and then unmade and then made again and then discussed again over and over again. Um The impact that has to not just parents, then all the parents in here, but also to staff. And not just parents and staff, but also to potential parents. Um >> [clears throat] >> If with all this uh uncertainty of your school might be closed, never mind your school is now safe. Oh, never mind your school might be closed again. It could lead staff to just leave because they don't know if they're going to have a job. It could lead parents

077to move districts where they will feel more stable. And I know it's making some families who might have students that they were planning to go to Chapel Hill schools, Carrboro schools uh to not. So, I know this is a very hard decision um but a decision needs to be made and stuck to. That is really what I would like to get across. Um and it feels like we've made decisions in the past and have walked away from them. So, thank you. >> [applause] >> Hi, this is ooh This is Chonan. [clears throat] She asked me to speak um or read her letter. Um so, I'll do that. Um good evening members of the board. My family came to Chapel Hill from overseas last April and my daughter began third grade at Glenwood Elementary shortly after

078we arrived. My family to East Carolina, so my daughter will not continue studying here. Even though my daughter will leave next year, I came tonight because this program matters for other children. During this past year, I have been deeply moved by the kindness and generosity I have experienced in this community. My daughter's teacher, Mr. Rogers, has always stays after school to play with her when I arrive late to pick her up. Yesterday, my daughter told me something that touched me deeply. She says, "Mr. Rogers must have wonderful parents because they raised him to be such a perfect teacher." This experience changed me. It changed how I understand community and American values. I began to realize that the influence of culture in the world does not come from power or force. It comes from kindness, generosity,

079responsibility, and caring for others. I believe education is one of the most powerful ways these values travel across cultures. Programs like Glenwood's Mandarin dual language and world language programs are helping raise a generation of bilingual young people who can understand different cultures and connect communities. Programs like this build bridges between cultures. Children who grow up understanding different cultures are more likely to connect people, reduce misunderstandings, and help make the world better. Children are the bridges of the future. So, please do not remove the soil that allows these seeds to grow. Please keep dual language and world language together at Glenwood and continue supporting this program so it can grow even stronger because programs like this do more than teach language. They teach understanding. They teach respect. And they teach children how to care about people

080who are from different from themselves. And this is how communities grow stronger and how the world becomes a better place. So, I again respectfully ask the board to keep dual language and world language together at Glenwood so these children can continue to grow into bridges between cultures. Thank you for listening. >> [applause] >> Ashley? Hey, good evening, y'all. It's good to see you guys again, and thank you so much um for the opportunity to speak tonight. So, I'm Ash Sherman. I'm the elementary level lead for the Chapel Hill Carrboro Association of Educators, and I am just here tonight to reiterate the comment that I made at the last board meeting with several of my colleagues from um other elementary schools. We recognize the financial realities uh of our district's enrollment trends and the need to

081close elementary schools, and we want to echo the comments of some other folks tonight by encouraging the board to make a transparent and timely decision, and one that also protects as many staff positions as possible. We know that every success in our district can be credited to the amazing certified and classified staff members that serve our students every day. Closure will not just impact staff at the schools that close. Every single elementary school will be impacted through redistricting, enrollment shifts, and position adjustments. Our CHCAE elementary team has been gathering some staff feedback over these last weeks, um as well as some questions to share with district leadership, and the preliminary data is indicating a lot of widespread confusion and worry about what closure means for people's jobs. Um we're really grateful to Dr. Trice for

082your commitment to giving staff as long of a runway as possible to share that information quickly, and we also want to encourage leadership to incorporate building level voice in planning for these staffing adjustments. Uh we believe that with continued transparency and stakeholder involvement, um you can continue to um communicate care and support to all of the staff members in our district. So, we really appreciate you. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Good evening. My name is Liz Barber. I'm the mom of two kids at FPG. And I have three things. I'll try to keep it pretty quick. Um, one is I'd like to thank you all for your willingness to make what's a hard decision. Nobody wants to be elected to then have to close a school, as you all said last time. But I appreciate

083your willingness to do it. I know it's going to be unpopular, but it's also necessary. It's necessary because we need to maintain the quality of our schools over the quantity of our schools. And while I've heard comments both here tonight and online leading up to this meeting about the growth that we've seen in the area, we have seen growth and it has not changed our trends. I understand that the growth is going to increase, but when we're talking about filling 1,500 seats, that's a whole lot of growth. So, it means not only rooftops, but filling those rooftops with a different demographic than historically, at least recently, in recent years have been moving into district. We can't keep our schools open on a hope and a promise. That does not pay the bills, and we can't

084hold on to some sort of wishful thinking and let our schools suffer and bleed out in the meantime. Um, second, I hope that you all don't discount the really good, hard work that you and your predecessors did around the bond. I recognize the bond decision and this decision are not one in the same, but when we're thinking about closing schools, it would be wild not to start with the list of schools that we've already recognized have to be the buildings have to be closed. So, please don't take a step back. Please honor that work and stick to the schools that we recognized that the buildings no longer serve the students. Um, last, I want to talk to FPG B, which, as I said, I have two kids there. FPG, you all have said that you're

085not going to close programs. Um, that makes sense, right? The The FPG B is a program. It is full. It is popular. It keeps kids in district and actually brings families to the district. But something that's unique about FPGB is it is a school and a program. So I don't understand how you can at the same time say we're going to keep the program open, but consider closing the school cuz they're one in the same. Thank you so much. >> [applause] >> Here? This one? Hello. Uh my name is Tracy and I don't know why um when I log in it doesn't ask me ask me for my uh first name. So my name is Tracy Yan. I'm uh speaking for uh Glenwood. I have a fifth grader um so she is graduating um we

086have been in the CHCCS district for over uh 10 years. Um so I really appreciate the Mandarin dual language program in Glenwood so that my kids they can learn Mandarin and English both. Um Um the kids they in the Mandarin Mandarin dual language program they not only learn the the language they learn culture they learn how to become global citizen. So it is very unique resource for those kids. Um if I'm not heavily involved in the MDL program but at least I have witnessed the fate of the program in the last 10 years. By average uh as a parent of the MDL students every 3 to 4 years the program has been threatened to be taken away. And as a MDL parent I have to stand out and shout loudly for for the kids like

087my kids and other children, similar children. So that way can preserve this unique learning resources for the kids. Okay. I'm not I don't know the the reasons behind it but I'm only saying the facts. I understand there are students enrollment declining in our school district and some school buildings they're very old and Glenwood is one of those buildings. But the MDL is always having a very long waiting list. And many parents that really want to send their children to this program. Um include in the MDL program. Um let's see if the Glenwood and the MDL is going to get closed. Uh how about those students if they're in kindergarten, first grade, second grade, uh third grade or fourth grade? Are they going to quit learning? Is this a a first is this a good learning

088experience for those kids? Is are we going to teach our kids like this? A first learning lesson like this for the for those kids? Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> [applause] >> All right, I've written I don't know how many different things but I've landed on one. First I want to say thank you all for being here, seriously. Um I couldn't do I Thank you. I couldn't do your job, your being your position um to be sitting here and listening to story after story and people sharing their hearts and their minds. Um that's got to be hard. So thank you for hearing us and listening. Um we appreciate that. Um thank you to you all for being here. Um I see different colors here but like we're all in the same boat and

089there's not there's not going to be a win. Like, any one that closes, like that's going to be really hard. Um yeah. So, sorry for anyone whose school does close. Um so, imagine this. You are a teacher that has one elementary that has pre-elementary school-age children. The cost of housing is so high in Chapel Hill that the um that like many other teacher and staff, you choose to buy a home uh buy a more affordable home in another nearby or not-so-nearby town. You do so knowing that you have a great job in a Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School elementary school, so your kids will be able to go with you to the gold star standard of public schools in the state. After a few years or heck, while under contract and at home, you learn that

090one to two elementary schools will be chosen to close out of three, then five, then three to five. Will there be a spot for you? Can't see if you're There's um will there be a uh Why am I losing my Will there be a good spot for you at one of the other elementary schools if yours closes? If you are a specialist teacher, is there even just one potential opening within even the next few years for you in the system? Did you make the wrong decision to move? Is your school going to close? Is it going to close in '27-'28 school year, '28-'29? Should you bail now and find another job or start a new career? Should you just quit and go to grad school? How is your family going to make it if you

091lose your job? If your school closes and you can't get a position in another school, where What does that mean for your kids? And on and on and on. Tears, sleepless nights, anxiety, silent screams inside your head. I ask you all just to think of this teacher that the hundreds of teacher and staff that are going through this right now. Um and I'm crying cuz I know their stories. And just ask you to think of that. Thank you again for being here. I know it's hard to Thank you, Alex. >> [applause] >> Good evening. Buenas noches. Dàjiā hǎo. It's nice to see everybody. Um, thank you to the board for your attention, for your stamina. I've been really impressed by how many comments you've sat through, and thank you for listening to mine. Um, I'm

092the parent of a third-grade student at FPG, also a seventh-grade and 11th-grade alums. The added information I want to offer from my family is that we are one of the families that moved to this district where we could have lived in any other county for the dual language programs. We moved here not knowing if it would be a Mandarin or Spanish. We just wanted that opportunity for our children. It aligned with our values as a family. We loved that this district had that value. And what I ask is that while you're considering your decisions, you also publicly declare that you're going to maintain or even strengthen our dual language programs. We made our decision to move here when we had a 4-year-old and a 1-year-old. And so there's families out there with 4-year-olds and 1-year-olds

093that are probably trying to look at what's happening here and decide if they should make that bet to move to this district. We made a pretty big family sacrifice to move here. It was more expensive. We had to go for a period of time between homes to make it work. And so I ask that you all declare this as soon as possible so that families seeing headlines now aren't hesitating about whether they would move here and that leads to an enrollment problem that's even worse. I could spend a lot of time reinforcing the amazing comments I've heard about the culture, the language, the beauty of being part of these schools. I feel so lucky to have had this experience. And I'm so thankful also to the teachers of our entire district. You are what has

094made this a thriving place for our families and our students across all these schools. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Hi, I'm Molly Beek. I'm a second grade teacher at Northside. Um I know that Northside's not on the list to be closed, but this is about all of our students. Um I want to thank y'all and recognize you doing the hard work. Um and I just want to say like like I feel like being here tonight, the good news is that district-wide we clearly value inclusion. We clearly are valuing multiple language learners. We're clearly valuing cultures. We're clearly valuing just equity. So I think that's the really good news here tonight. Um I know that we're concerned about closing schools, loss of jobs, and disrupting our communities. But I just feel like we need to be

095careful about letting our fears move us away from keeping students at the center of our choices. It is so tempting to back into our corners and defend each of our little piece of turf. We all naturally want to preserve our programs and our school cultures. But I would ask all of us to resist the comfort of the status quo and step into the discomfort of change because we have students who need it. Now is the time for student-centered decisions. And I understand that all of our stakeholders have the very best of intentions, but that does not mean that they know what is best for all of our students' learning outcomes, particularly our economically disadvantaged, our language-learning students who do not benefit from dual language programs, and our black and brown students. All of our students

096need us to be their champions, not to keep them in class with their friends, but to include but to improve their chances in this world by giving them more targeted education that will improve learning outcomes. If we can open our minds to new ideas, new practices, and new programs, this could be a real opportunity. We should be thinking about how we can create better schools and programs based on our current student data. We have a chance as Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools to say, "Yes, we are in the dead last state in student spending in a district that's going to lose employees and close schools, and yet we are going to use this moment to improve student outcomes by looking critically at our system and making student-centered decisions based on the data that we have." And

097I apologize, but I'm going to go over my time. >> Molly. Sorry. We got to keep going. Thank you so much. You can email it to us if you'd like. Thank you. Um we got Chris coming up next. Thank you. Is William still here? Yes. William here? >> [applause] >> Is William still here? William Ray? First, I want to say thank you for all you you do. It's really appreciated. it. know it's got to be really difficult. Um so my name is Chris Caldarola. Uh my child goes is uh is a kindergartner at Seelye Elementary. And um the education my child would receive here was a big deciding factor for my family moving here. So where I live there are a lot of new developments and new townhomes, perfect for young families that like me

098probably have a hope of giving a child a good education. And Seelye Elementary is next to Seelye Middle School, which is next to Seelye High School. And there are many great programs. For instance, there's one program where the kids from the high school come and get teaching experience with the kindergarten class, you know, at a real school. So while you can try to preserve programs, in many cases, it may only be a name. So closing Seelye Elementary eliminates this program, no matter how hard you try to recreate it if cuz there's like a bond there between those students and I mean, you you can't recreate proximity. It's cuz all those schools are right next to each other. Um and I think this applies to closing any of the wonderful elementary schools that we are lucky

099to have here. >> [applause] >> Good evening, members of the board, Dr. Trice, district staff. My name is Will Ray. I'm a district parent of a second grader and a soon-to-be kindergartner at Estes Hills. I'm here because I believe in the strength of this district, but I'm also concerned about its long-term health. For that reason, I respectfully request this body to consider the following four short points as we move forward. First, to honor the completed process, evaluation, and main maintain trust with this wider community. In 2024, the board discussed closures as a part of the bond process and made unanimous decisions under formal agenda items with a thorough evaluation and public engagement. The backdrop now is the same as it was then, budget challenges and critical facility needs. Process matters and good governance matters. The

100board made specific representations to voters about what the bond would fund. Those commitments should guide your next steps. Second, to move forward meeting the requests of the district leadership and staff. Delays have real costs, staff time, consultant fees, board time, inflation, lost construction windows. Every day spent revisiting decisions is a day not spent on moving forward with construction planning. District leadership has made clear that if we do not address facilities first, we accelerate staff cuts. Financial instability harms the entire district, not just elementary schools. Continued instability risks enrollment decline, which further worsens our financial picture. Third, to give district leadership the runway to succeed. The district needs stability after significant transition. We have the right leadership in Dr. Trice and staff, and continued reversals or uncertainty undermine his leadership credibility. He and the team deserve

101clear and consistent direction from this board to support early and long-term success. Supporting our district administrators and listening to their advice matters. Fourth, to prioritize sites that maximize flexibility and alignment with future growth and development. Alignment with town and county growth plans is essential. Anticipated residential development, UNC expansion, affordable housing expansion, and infrastructure investments should inform where the district anchors its elementary schools. Thank you. All right. Uh dear member of boards and Dr. Trice, uh thank you so much for this opportunity to share our thoughts. Uh I've been here for multiple times. I know this job is so difficult. I'm a parent of two students at Glenwood and I also a professor at UNC Chapel Hill. Since I'm in education for so many years, I'd like to share a concern I have about how schools

102are being selected for potential closure. It appears that the primary criterion is about facility, the facility's age, its operational cost, distance to middle or high schools. While that is clearly a important consideration, I also worry that this approach risks overlooking something that even more critical. The academic quality, reputation, and the unique culture of those buildings are hosting right now. Because of this criterion, our oldest and best schools are on the list to be closed. According to US News and World Report, Glenwood ranks about uh 98 in North Carolina and Seawell ranked 55 in North Carolina. They're not struggling or underperforming schools. They're among top tier elementary schools in the entire state. Uh this makes them uh the most valuable asset for the school district. Uh in particular, Glenwood Elementary offers something truly special and difficult

103to replicate. Glenwood's STEM program integrates science, technology, engineering, arts, mathematics, and mentoring through hands-on projects-based learning. Students develop uh creative and analytical skills while uh gaining exposure to mentoring, uh a character-based language that supports brand development and prepare students for global connected world. Um this program it takes many years of careful leadership, teacher development, and community trust to build. While constructing a new building is expensive, rebuilding this high-quality culture is even harder and sometimes impossible. Give you an analogy. This is like a closing Harvard or MIT for, you know, saving some money. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. >> [applause] >> Okay. That was the last comment for everyone who signed up. I'm going to ask this question >> [laughter] >> cuz it is on my computer screen. Is there anyone else who did

104not sign up who would like to make a public comment? I would ask that you all please line up over there. This is the last call for that, okay? Thank you all. All right. Please make sure you state your name names. Um thank you. So, this is Um David from the Glenwood Elementary School, fifth grade, and I will tell my perspective on the case. First, I don't want the Glenwood Elementary School to be closed cuz I have a lot of friends there. And the another reason of mine so that I don't happy for it to be closed is that the That's where the little brother and sister are being there, too. Thank you, David. So, David didn't know basically nothing in English and he was accepted to the avid gifted kids. And I think this

105is because of the excellence. This is the word that I haven't heard till now, but I think this excellent school there is a quiet leadership of Mr. Bennett and all the staff. And I think what we see here, we see here how cohesive we are. They are different communities. All of us came here to speak on behalf of our schools. I think this is a rarity. And I think that thing that the previous speakers, kids, and parents that have just spoken they spoke about this culture. And this culture is almost impossible to rebuild. I've been a CEO of a hospital, and my wife is here at Duke Hospital doing some cancer research in the radiation oncology department. And we chose Chapel Hill. We could live closer to the hospital. But we chose Chapel Hill because

106we wanted our kids to be successful to have a well-being. I hear a lot about the well-being of the teachers. I see that many of the principals are not here. They're all hurt because this situation is very painful for them. They are creating something good and they are in part being almost laid over. So, I think this should be respected, and we really appreciate you listening from the heart because this is not an objective thing. It is a subjective matter. Thank you. I appreciate your time. David, David's dad, can you please tell us your name? We have to What's your name, sir? Um >> my family name, too? >> [laughter] >> Well, what's your dad's name, David? >> I'm Yeshayahu Falik. >> Thank you. I love you. >> [applause] >> Hey, my name is Eric

107Johnston. Uh I'm a teacher assistant at Frank Porter Graham and I work the after school program at Frank Porter Graham. Uh my school day my day starts at 7:20 and I get off work at 6:00. And I'm here now to talk to you. Um mainly the last meeting and this meeting um I noticed um that especially the later it got um that peop uh some members of the board might have been maybe looking at phones or maybe even taking notes on their computers and I want to stress how important it is for you to have your eyes on someone when they're talking. Um especially um because a lot of the people are coming out of their way to give you their time. And I'm not trying to call anybody out well, specifically I suppose. Um

108but I just want to I just want to uh reiterate that it is noticed and uh I I would appreciate it. Thank you. >> [applause] >> All right. Thank you, everyone. Um seeing no other public comments, thank you. Also, you may send written comments to the board. The email is available on the agenda and additional information regarding written comments is available on our website. Board members, the next item on our agenda is our consent agenda. Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? So moved. I have a motion from Meredith. May have a second? Second. A second from Barb. All those in favor, say I. I. >> I. Any opposed? All right, consent agenda is approved. All right. The next item on our agenda is discussion and action. It's recommendation for authorization of school

109closure study and defining the scope of the study. Um board members, before we get started, I just wanted to say a few words to center our discussion. The topic of school closure has been challenging for the board, staff, community, and our students. And there is something that I've noticed through this process. We have a community that is committed to public education and to the Chapel Hill Carrboro City Schools community. Our schools are full of phenomenal staff, talented students who are learning and doing great things, whether they are in a traditional school setting or participating in one of our many programs across the district. This decision to close schools is to address the reality of public education funding and the pressures that impact our financial decision. Knowing these things, we must maximize the district's financial position

110to enable us to achieve our long-term vision. To quote quote Dr. Trice on what this vision is, we are moving to position Chapel Hill Carrboro City Schools to become a smaller, more innovative, and high-quality district. One that continues to reflect a community that deeply values and invests in public education. It is my hope that we, Chapel Hill Carrboro City Schools, can come out of this stronger and focused on how we can continue to deliver on this promise of high-quality education for all students while supporting our staff. All right. So, board members and community, we've been discussing the school closure topic over a few board meetings. There is not a presentation with this this agenda item. However, included in the abstract are two actions if the board is so inclined to take. The first one is

111to direct the administration to prepare a study regarding possible school closure and identify those schools. And second is to provide criteria or information topics that the board would like to would like included in the study. Since we've got these two decision decision points tonight, I'm thinking the process for our discussion will start with the first decision item regarding the school closure study and see if board members have any questions or comments, after which I'll entertain a motion from board members regarding the school closure item. If we reach a decision regarding the school closure item, then we can move on to discussing the criteria and vote regarding a final list. So, board members, does any does anyone have any questions or comments regarding the school closure study? All right, then board members, do I have any

112motions regarding the still school closure study? Barb, go ahead. Um this is my motion is addresses the first resolution that on the closure. And so, what I move is that the board direct the staff to prepare study regarding the possible closure of one or more of the following schools, School, Glenwood, and Ephesus, and to return the completed study to the board for review and consideration. And at the appropriate time, Madam Chair, I'd like to speak in support of that motion. I second that. Okay, we have a motion from Barb and a second from George. Um is there any discussion on the motion? Barb, do you want to go ahead? Go ahead. Well, first I wanted to just take this opportunity to thank everybody who's come to these meetings and written to us and called me

113and called us and um if if anybody hasn't gotten back to you, I'm I'm sorry. We have tried. Um So, this is super no fun. Um but I'm I made the resolution that I made for the following reasons. So, clearly closing one or more schools is necessary component of right-sizing our school portfolio, the elementary schools of which have been operating significantly under capacity for some time. Um, as several speakers have noted, we previously made capital commitments to rebuild Frank Porter Graham and Estes Hills pursuant to a proper publicly noticed 7-0 vote on August 15th, 2024, indicating that those two schools should be included in the bond. That vote occurred after multiple board meetings and work sessions, community listening sessions, endless hours of staff time, and a million-dollar county-funded 2023 long-range facilities optimization plan known as

114the Wolpert report. It was voted on and presented to the county as part of the capital improvement plan. And a critical and to me dispositive reason that we opted to build those two schools along with Carrboro Elementary is that as Mr. Sheroki explained us multiple times, the anticipated site of rebuilding for each meant that students could stay in their base elementary schools during the pendency of construction, which minimizes disruption and also cost. And so, that for that reason, those two schools should not be included in the closure study. To include them now in the consideration of closure, along with complicating the rebuild logistics, introduces instability and uncertainty insofar as it would require retroactive reconsideration of the bond vote and capital plan. I think we as a board need to be data-driven, but we also need

115to be decisive. Thank you. Any other discussion on the motion? Meredith and then Ronnie. Um, I just prepared a short statement as well. Um, just wanted to kind of speak from my heart, but I don't want to leave anything else, so I apologize in advance if this sounds a a stilted. Um, this has been the most difficult month of my board service so far. Um, I ran for the Board of Education because I believe deeply in public schools and in this community. I wanted to serve and help strengthen our schools. In thinking through policy decisions, I've always tried to center students who are too often marginalized in our system, including students with disabilities, multilingual learners, and students from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. Over the past several weeks, I've spoken with families, staff, community members all across

116the district. I have listened to my colleagues. I've reviewed the many emails and public comments that we've received, and I've relied on the guidance of our district leadership. It is clear that this process has been very painful for many in our community. After weighing many factors and listening carefully to the concerns raised by multiple school communities, I believe that the most responsible next step is to focus our analysis in a narrower and more consistent way. For that reason, I plan to vote to direct school leadership to study the possible closure of three schools: Ephesus, Glenwood, and Sewell. Equity has been central in my thinking. Declining enrollment and financial strain are real challenges, but their impacts are not evenly distributed. Closure decisions will affect some communities more than others. We must examine those impacts carefully and

117ensure that students who already face systemic barriers, such as our newcomer populations, are not disproportionately harmed. At the same time, equity requires clear and consistent criteria. During our bond discussions, we engaged in a robust process that considered facility condition, long-range capital planning, and fiscal sustainability. I believe that those factors remain relevant here. If we move away from those principles without clear justification, we risk undermining both public trust and long-term stability. We also have to be honest about our current reality. None of us want to reduce staff positions. Our educators and school staff are the heart of our district. But we can no longer staff or maintain facilities as though we are still a district of 12,000 students. Enrollment has declined significantly and continuing to operate at that scale is not sustainable. If we do not

118right-size our facilities and operations, we limit our ability to innovate, invest strategically, and efficiently support the students we do have. I know that this process has been deeply hurtful. These schools are not just buildings. They are all communities with long histories and deep relationships. My hope is that once decisions are made, we can begin rebuilding trust and strengthening connections across our district so that we can emerge, as Dr. Trice has so aptly put, as a smaller, stronger, and more cohesive school system. And I hope that reassigned students, families, and staff will be welcomed wholeheartedly into new school communities with care, intention, and strong support. Thank you. Uh thank you, Barb and Meredith, for your comments. Um I I just had a few thoughts. Um one is the capital improvement plan also made commitments to Ephesus,

119Glenwood, and Seawell. And if our objective is to maximize financial benefits, why would we as a board limit the options that we can even consider that are available to us? I think we also have to be thoughtful about reversing our commitments to these schools. We talk about confusion, but I don't know why these schools are considered differently than other schools. So, my recommendation would be to consider the five schools that were included uh that were part of the bond discussion as the schools that were most in need of facility renovation. Thank you, Ronnie. Any other discussions on the motion, Melinda? Um I'm going to echo a lot of what Ronnie said. Of course, as a lot of y'all know, I was actually not here for the original vote. Um but to me, the most equitable

120solution is to look at all five because I think we're in a very different place now than we were in 2024, unfortunately. I recognize how painful this is um for everyone, but I've read a lot of comments. I've been listening to what people have been saying, and I still strongly believe we need to be looking at all five. Thank you. Any other discussions on the motion at hand? So, we have a motion, and it's been seconded to direct the staff to do a school closure study, which includes Ephesus School and Glenwood, and bring that those studies back to the board. All those in favor of the motion, say I. I. I. >> I. And those opposed? Nay. >> Nay. The motion carries 4-3. Thank you. Um now we'll move on to the next item, which

121is the criteria or information on each school, which will be included as a part of the study. Um so, board members, for this one, I'll open it up if anyone has any questions or comments regarding the list of criteria that we have in front of us, and it's attached in the abstract. Go ahead, George. Um I've got I've got a question on the on the first one, geographic conditions. Sure, go ahead. >> Um I've been suggesting that we uh take a geographic location into account, and is that subsumed in this, or does it need to be a separate How so? Like the the composition of the schools? >> as I see our my role as our role as board members as the greater good of the whole district. >> Okay. And not particularly any neighborhood

122or school or anything. Um and so as we're looking at schools in the map of Chapel Hill-Carrboro it seems like we would want to have schools dispersed throughout the community to leave future boards as maximum flexibility Mhm. in planning. So I didn't know if that's part of number one or >> We can I mean that's something we can add that's included. So So I guess I guess what you're saying is for cuz it's going to be a study for each school and so I guess it would be for each school just identify like if that school is closed then what would the makeup of the >> on that part of the district? Yeah. Yeah cuz I mean if you just draw the line >> To the staff. Okay. Yeah. We have seven of our schools

123west of Martin Luther King and four east right now. >> Right. Yeah. So I'm looking at staff. They're going to make a note of it and I guess it'll be under number one geographic that you want make sure there's information on that. >> Thank you. Board members any other? I have a couple questions but I want you guys to go first. Barb. Well, number seven is not applicable. So I would just move to strike that one. Okay. So remove number seven. Number seven So sorry. I will get to my agenda. Feasibility of students remaining enrolled on site during a rebuild. Maybe we should explain more. So what we have and Mr. Sheroke can answer this but what we've heard now that we've identified these three schools what we're what we understand and it was part

124of the bond process that you can't not rebuild you cannot rebuild with the students on site these schools. If you were to to do anything with them you'd have to remove the students and then then do a rebuild. So this is not applicable for these goals, so. Board members, are you guys okay with Okay. Marisa. Yes. Where, George? I thought just didn't you go down there? >> Oh, Meredith then. Thanks. I just had a comment about number six. >> Okay. Uh the building adjacency to middle or high schools, um we kind of talked about this last meeting and I think it was Vicki that pointed out like it was a nice to have, not a mandatory to have. I just wanted to point out that like I I think there actually are good reasons to

125try to prioritize that, maybe not as a um a primary consideration, but as a secondary one. But I the the reason in the notes that's there, I don't think it that that doesn't speak to why I think Okay. that should be considered. I mean, I I think academic acceleration is certainly a nice to have, but I don't see that as a primary reason for um prioritizing building adjacency to middle or high schools. I think it's more about whole picture like big picture collaboration opportunities and if the district continues on in this trajectory to be able to consider innovative solutions like a K-8 campus, um you know, or just different types of of situations that I don't think is really covered by this academic acceleration comment. So So, what you're saying is either you'd like that

126removed or just generally talk about building adjacency to Yeah, and I I I mean I think generally I think that's what I'm suggesting, but I think also this brings about a larger point, which is more like what are we considering to be a primary consideration versus a secondary consideration. You know, I I think that we understand that this is primarily a financial consideration, so we do have to look at hard numbers, um but we also have to consider other impacts as well and then this, you know, this would fall under that category to me for me. Correct. So, are board members okay with it being more general discussion of building adjacency and I guess any advantages or not of that, but also I guess including some academic information, I guess whatever this previous comment was.

127Is that fine? Ronnie, go ahead. I think there's another step to this, which is how do we evaluate these criteria relative to each other. So, I wouldn't take it off or make any changes until we get to that point. >> Okay. So, well then we'll add more general and also leave the academic acceleration piece on there as well. Okay? George. Okay. I just I just wanted to get some clarification on points 9, 10, and 11. I I wanted to understand a little bit more about what each of those meant. Um campus openness and safety considerations. Um and also alignment with town planning and then more specifically site adequacy cuz that's a little general. I don't know I know we have board members suggesting it, but I don't know if anyone wants to comment. I can

128speak to site adequacy. I think I was I asked for that one and that one was about understanding the space requirements for school buildings and what the various campus facility options were. So, are there some that are more limited than others that might make more natural considerations? Okay. Thank you. All right. Board members, any other comments specifically about the list? Go ahead. Well, I don't want to put you on the spot, Al, but I wanted to ask if you could speak a little bit about number 10, the alignment with town planning. Um, you know, I've I've heard a lot of comments amongst the public talking about development, but I've also talked to a number of people who are pretty convinced that much of the development is not going to be homes that will accommodate families

129of young children, and so I just wanted to see if you had any information on that that you could share. Yeah, um, when the administration has talked with town planning staffs and previous years and even this past year, uh, but also as the county has worked with them demographers, uh, those demographers in their final reports, uh, work with the towns to look at proposed projects, to look at student yield generation, uh, calculations to be able to determine that. And what's been approved thus far, uh, it is yielding some children, but it's not enough to change the fact that we have a a need to close two schools at this time. Um, back in December at your board retreat when Carolina Demography presented, they they gave you kind of a primer of what the trend was

130continuing to look like, but told us that in the final report in April, uh, for the county commissioners, that it would include those projects. So, staff's recommendation would be for alignment with town planning, the section, uh, that you have for anticipated increase or decrease in enrollment, uh, my suggestion would be uh, my thought would already be that in discussing the trending and using basically it's going to be Carolina Demography's data. I'm going to copy and paste it into the report. I, you know, I'm not a demographer. But at the same time, I would there would be sections where they spoke with the planning departments for Carrboro and Chapel Hill, and I would do my best to include the projects that have been approved, uh, over the past if it's 10 years, 5 years, 1 year,

131and to be able to show what Carolina Demography put into their calculations for the student yield, so that it is informative. Um you know, I've always said as as a whole uh for the developments, be it the the trend has changed here in the with the towns in in recent years of very recent. Uh you know, it takes you time for that to pivot or obviously, and that's what they say, you know, as we did our community meetings back in the fall, that was even evident. Uh but it is one where we do need to monitor that. Uh but we do know that whatever trends there are, we're not going to foresee it in the next probably 3 to 5 years, and that's what the and the demographers have always said, "We're going to project

13210 years, you really only trust us about 3 to 4." And then that's why they do this annually, and then we continue to be updated. But the trend is showing that even with any growth that we would have uh that there would not be a need to add a school or to not close a school at this point. There's nothing to indicate that at this point. But again, I will reserve that for the study and what the data shows when I present it to you for any final deliberation. So is it okay then if we consider that number 10 to be sort of folded in to the number two? That would be my recommendation because that's what we're going to include. The demographer is working directly with the towns, the town's going to provide them

133with information. They're going to create the student generation, and that will be in comprised in that report as the previous reports over the past years have included. Uh so that would be my intention. If we find that that's not the case, uh I would then say come back to you to say we may need to modify this or for me to be authorized to add for you to consider adding a section because I do think it's germane and important to be able to show. Okay, thank you. So that's not necessarily a change, just folding number number 10 and two together, but it's not a change. Go ahead, Vicky. Um I wanted to jump back to number six for a second. Um I know that everyone was saying or you were saying that we need to

134keep the comments um about academic in there and and I agree with that, but I would say that I I think to speak to what what one of the teachers said when they presented and spoke to us and or when they spoke in public comment that it may be a little bit more um transparent to use it as programmatic and academic impact so that it's not picturing that as if it's only about academic acceleration. That we're looking at all students and what the academic impact of programmatic outcomes could be cuz we need to make sure that we are listening to what the needs are for our whole student population. Okay. So, we're adding programmatic and academic outcomes. Impact. >> Impact, sorry. Thank you. How do you How do you measure that? Are Are you Are

135you asking >> guess I'm just putting that to the board, yeah. I I was I I when when when I heard it, I wanted to ask the question of like they may have had some thinking around that, but Well, I mean, actually the comment itself is proximity can make academic acceleration. So, that that that statement in and of itself is subjective because it's it's can and it can and it may not. So, is either we look at something that's going to have some subjectivity to it or we look at it in a more factual structured state and say that that particular comment in and of itself needs to come out because it too is subjective, which >> Yeah. I think that makes it I was I was thinking about this criteria more as uh shared

136maintenance costs, right? Like uh and there could be some elements of of shared learning across buildings, too, but yeah, I I I I think it would be real important to have real tight like what these mean, so that there may be some more thinking to do about that one. Yeah, if I could also add, you know, in my mind, uh when you've looked at other districts that have used this, you know, a lot of a lot of districts build schools where they have an elementary, a middle, and a high school, many of which are small one, you know, three school counties if you want to call it that. Uh but there are it is from a maintenance of efficiency, but the other thought is that uh as we've talked about programs within our schools where

137there's matriculation from elementary to middle, you know, we did with FPG, we prioritized in relocating to Culbreth that there is the dual language program at the elementary, but then it matriculates right into Culbreth middle, which then in turn uh goes to Carrboro High School. So, it was the idea of acknowledging The idea was not to determine if there's academic success because I think we have to be careful with school The question of school closure with the district-wide boundary changes because in the end, once the decisions are made uh to close which schools to close or not, uh when that decision is made, then you're going to have to look at all of the programs that our district has, and we're going to have That's where we're going to hire a demographer to know this program

138has this many students on average, this program has this many, and if there's 23 programs, we're going to want to try to Where do we want to put those programs that best meets the needs of the district? So, we would look at that, and that's where an adjacency might come into play if it's a program where there's a relation between the elementary and the middle. Uh you know, we have that relation with three of our campuses. There's only one where we have elementary, middle, and high. Uh but it's really the elementary, middle. That was the thought behind it, and um but as far as the academic piece, I don't know if that's going to be easy to measure for a closure decision, but I think we get into the boundary process, something to that effect

139I think would be a value that you as a board would want to look at as you're trying to make the best decision. Since we do have an opportunity at the elementary level to really hit a reset that hasn't been done in over 12 years as far as balancing and ensuring where the needs are within our district because we know they have changed from when they were originally created 12 years ago. Thank you. Any Any other comments? Melinda? Um I've been hearing a lot about our pre-K programs and it's not really reflected in any of our criteria. Wonder if we could add it into as part of number three. Okay. We're fine. Okay. So number three we're going to add information on pre-K programming and maybe impacts on it. So again just for clarification I

140feel that that would be something that would be part of the boundary process where we look at all of our elementary schools, but would it be just to state the facts of the schools that are under the study? These are the number of children that are enrolled. I mean just basic demographic information is what you would want versus because getting into scenarios that's going to be the next phase, but if it's informational I think that's very appropriate for you to make the best decision if that's what you're looking for. That Demographic information, yeah. Just information about programming and students and classrooms and all that at the schools. Go ahead um Meredith and then Ronnie. Along those same lines um and don't get mad at me for adding additional work, but on number one with the

141geographic conditions would it be possible like I don't necessarily support like an extensive look at walking versus car riding versus bus riding, but could we incorporate that into one to the extent that we could see like how many people take the bus for any individual school, how many people walk, how many people actually walk, how many people you know, it how how challenging would that be to get? >> Well, not at all. I think the number eight criteria, transportation costs, you know, when you're looking at the cost the state cost per pupil, which is about just over $950 on average here in our district, we would look at the number of students that um currently ride or sign up to ride a bus, how many actually ride a bus, how many are in a walk

142zone a non-transportation zone, how many from safe routes to schools that the town has counted, meaning there might be 150 kids that are eligible but maybe only 50 walk on average every day, we would use that to be able to then come up with a cost analysis to say, here's the here's the swag if you want to call it. Here's the lowest, but then here's the highest if everybody who is in a walk zone decided to put their child on the bus because of that, we would want to show that. So, we would incorporate that as much of that information that we could so that you could again make that decision because there is a difference between how many are in the non-transportation zone versus how many actually walk from the from the safe routes

143to schools counts, but at the same time transportation will increase anytime you if you have two schools and you close one, it whoever's in the walk zone for the school that is closed, they will be transported or their parents will be bringing them, but they will not be walking, right? So, we know that we will have that information to share with you to show that impact. And I I think it could fit in number eight. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. I wasn't sure if we were trying to condense or if the all of these were That's right. For transportation, it would be all modes of transportation that we would show you, not just yellow buses. Ronnie. I was going back to the pre-K adequacy conversation and and I I I was thinking more about

144um fit for space, right? Like if we have a pre-K somewhere and we need and we decide to close that school and we move those students to another school, we need to make sure that there's appropriate space that's adequate for those students. So, that's how I was thinking about the pre-K question. Yeah, I mean realistically I know that bathrooms were not added at one of our oldest schools for title one programming or pre-K. But we can look at some of our obviously our newer schools are going to be more adequate when it comes to that. But if we needed to just look at that to say, these are the programs that we have these schools are the ones that are part of the study. Are there other schools where if it's I'll make this up

145if there's only one school that a program could go to, then we would know that we would have to hard program pre-K into that school. So, so I agree with we could look at that from a facility perspective to ensure that there are alternative locations Mhm. if the school in question was the one to be selected to be closed. Okay, thanks. Yep. Go ahead, Vicki. Um I just want to make sure that I'm clear. Pre-K is not being transported on buses or are? No, they're not being transported >> Okay, I just Unless I think maybe if they're in the some of the um system level classes, those are the only ones [snorts] that are guaranteed transportation. That's correct. Students that are enrolled in as EC students are the ones that are transported by law. But

146no other But no other. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. Any EC student that's enrolled plus their sibling cuz obviously the bus is coming to the house. Board members, any other thoughts on some of the criteria? I would just like a little more clarification on number nine. I've been looking at it and still not sure. Campus open openness and the safety consideration. I think that was yours, Ronnie. I think that it was coming back to me now. Um uh so the the idea is um as we assess cost to it. May- maybe rolls up into the cost to rebuild. Okay. Do we want to like pull that in? I don't know. Let me think about it. Or geography. I think I think it's more just um What is Maybe it is cuz it's probably like what is

147the cost to make sure we've got the right safety components in the in the facility. I I give caution to that. >> Yeah, and so I I think I'm I'm comfortable that that should be well I'm looking up at the cost criteria, the 10-year outlook. Might not capture, but sorry. My comment was going to just be we have schools that vary in campus style that are not part of the study. So I I wouldn't want to make a judgment about one school uh that is different than other schools that are not part of the study is used as a criteria. We obviously look at each of our schools individually and we address the innate if there are safety concerns or how students or parents approach the buildings from a SEPTED environmental by design standpoint. We

148do our best to manage that because our campuses do vary. Um With respect to just what is the replacement cost, um you know, we have not I can give an estimate based upon what's the what's the cost today for say a 90,000 square foot elementary school, but I think when you get into cost it's going to be okay, we're going to use today's dollars are we going to use when the next referendum comes around or >> have those in the WOOPER report, right? Like that those So I I think like I'm okay with just taking that number nine off. >> Okay. Yeah. And you're all fine removing nine? Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, right now we're removing seven and nine. We've done some clarification on number one, six, 11, three and eight, and did a

149combining of two and 10. Bingo. Go ahead, George. Uh my question might be to Dr. Treacy or Mr. Shiroki or chair. Um and if it's uh for later, just say so. Um obviously, there are three schools that I'm sure are uh disappointed in some of the aspects of what they've heard tonight. And um you know, I think we one, I think we all would recognize that, but two, are there some things that like deadlines and dates that you all could go over as to what will happen next? When are we going to look at this report? And how how are these schools going to be interacted with immediately and in the next few days or weeks so that they know who to talk to and what what the topic is and and where do we

150go? And may if it's if I'm jumping ahead of where you were going to get to, then just tell me. >> bit, but I mean, we can address it. >> [laughter] >> I don't know, Dr. Treacy, do you want to take that? I know we've talked about it. Yeah, sure. So, I think on on most of our calendars now, we have three or four community-wide sessions planned. Um uh we didn't want to get in front of the board, but um you know, we've identified three schools, and I think we owe it to those schools to be uh in community with them. So, in my mind is that we would um you know, schedule sessions specifically with and for those schools where questions can be asked. We can provide as much information as we can. I

151don't have a timeline on that yet, but most immediately that's what comes to mind. Yeah, and I think with the the ones that we already have scheduled, I don't want it to get lost, obviously. We're We're talking about a study for three schools, but obviously the rippling effect of this in the redistricting is going to impact the entire district. Um it'll have potentially impacts at the middle and high school when we think about feeder patterns and things like that. So, I think that's important um for just all community members to come out to those meetings and be engaged and just kind of understand kind of the big picture of redistricting as well. So, thank you, George. All right, let me get us back on track a little bit. So, um it sounds like are we

152okay where we are with this the list right now, board members? So, are you guys ready for the question? All right. Um right. Okay. Is there a motion to adopt the this list of criteria as amended? So moved. Got a um um motion from Melinda. Can I get a second? Second. And a second from um Meredith, sorry. All those in favor? I. I. I. Any opposed? All right. So, we have the criteria. Um I know there was some discussion. Ronnie, you asked the question of Somebody asked a question about how we're going to look at this these these criteria now. I don't know if you had any thoughts. Yeah, I mean, if you have some thoughts, I think the way we generally understand it, we're just Right now, the study is going to be a

153report with information in it. And so, I think I don't know, Ronnie, if you want to share some thoughts or Yeah, so I was imagining a next step would be with we we would think about how we would weight the criteria that gives us a a filter to apply and help us make the decision about how we get to the final school or schools. I don't know how we would do that with just a narrative. Board members? Reesa. Go ahead, George. >> I just, you know, to to me weight is arbitrary. Um and I don't think it's going to add any more information than what we've got in front of us. So, how do you compare the schools? I holistically. When all is said and done, the criteria are unless that you were closing schools

154cuz of finances. So, but we've just said there other criteria that matter. Right, and [snorts] I use it as guidance. But I don't think saying one's 30 and one's 20 changes anything. So, you're saying kind of the finance is the the baseline and then you'd inform it with the other criteria. I would use the criteria, so yeah, that's that's an important point and as I think about it, but >> Yeah, I think that feels arbitrary cuz then it's everybody's criteria. We could get to board alignment if we said like finance is 75% since that's our goal and then we can assign some other weighting according to how um relatively important these other measures feel. Well, I'm not, you know, I'm not wedded to it enough to say it's got to be this or that, but

155I don't see how that adds any relevance or useful new information. >> Mhm. Anyone else? Melinda? My fear is we would spend a whole lot of time coming up with with the weighted part and it would distract from making the final decision. Okay. Thank you, Melinda. Anyone else? Go ahead, Vicky. I I think if if we go ahead and get all of the narrative information, that gives us a big picture, and then as we as the collective start looking at all of it, then it will help us to narrow the scope in maybe not so in arbitrary way, because we'll then start to see the intent would be that we would start to see a picture as it comes together, but I think we need all of the information just laid out factually, so that

156it's not Well, this is not as important, it's not as weighted as much, so we don't need as much information on this particular criteria. I would like them to bring back as much due diligence as put as much due diligence in each of the criteria, and bring us all the information, and then as a collective we sit and go through it, and see where we're going as as we've done tonight, we discussed the criteria, and we came to some to some some consensus as to what now feels a lot better for us that we started from a very large place and narrowed it. I would hope we would be able to do that and come to the decision as to what we're going to be doing that's the best case scenario for the community at

157large. That's I think that would be the easiest way for me to wrap my head around it. I just wonder how we bring the I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Lisa. You didn't like it that I uh >> [laughter] >> Yeah, go ahead, Ronnie. I was just wondering how we bring the community along if we don't tell them how we're going to use the criteria. And so, like I'm as a finance person very much support the financial basis of it, but we just said there are 10 other eight other, whatever, criteria. Like, how are we going to think about those when we have information in front of us? And I think it's too late by then, cuz then it feels really um uh random to say like, "Oh, this one looks really interesting. I think we should

158say like here are how we're going to think about these things relative to each other and when we have the data it's just easy to have that conversation. Anyone [clears throat] else? Doesn't seem like the board is wants to apply weights. I think it looks sounds like we're just going to get the three studies and review them and then we'll have a board discussion unless Yes. Okay. Yep. Okay. All right. Well, that is um it for our discussion and action item. Um thank you Mr. Sheroky. Thank you board.