001All right, our next item on the agenda is our work session topic. All right. And board members, I I do have just a few opening comments that I want to read to kind of help start some of the discussions and questions that I had after our last meeting. But I did want to ground the community on what a work session is. Work sessions are meetings in which the board spends time more time discussing a topic. In these meetings, the board generally doesn't take action which requires voting approval. Public comment will be heard after each work session topic. And so there have been a lot of conversations regarding the board's discussions around school closure. The board has been using work sessions to discuss to discuss the closure process, thoughts on the numbers of schools to close
002and which schools we might close and the criteria to which we will use to close schools. Although there are board members who have currently expressed an interest in the closure study to include five schools and some who have expressed an interest to include three schools as part of the study. There has not been a vote on the number of schools or which schools ultimately will be part of the closure study. As I stated at the beginning of the previous work session discussion, this is a work session. This is a time when the board spends more time just discussing a topic. However, there are some votes that the board has made regarding school facilities as Mr. Sheroki mentioned the board did vote for the 2024 bond plan the underpinninging to the bond itself which identified three
003schools for replacement for the $300 million bond funds and the $und00 million payo. Also the board has made has voted for our 10-year capital investment plan. Both of these votes included the construction of three new elementary schools. Carbbor, Estes Hills, and Frank Porter Graham. There were some comments made during the past board meeting that there would not be sufficient funds to to complete the construction of the third school under the bond plan. Under our current bond plan, that school is Frank Porter Graham. The school collaboration meeting is a meeting in which the board leadership from the school districts of Orange County, Chapel Hill, and the county commissioners along with our respective staffs meets quarterly. During this meeting, I asked the county staff and commissioners present whether any changes had been made by the county regarding
004the bond amount or if the county had made a final decision on the availability of PIGO funding. The county confirmed that there had been no county commissioner decision that would reduce the funding under the bond or the PIGO at this time. It is accurate that the county did not fund the PIGO for the first year's anticipated, but it is under the county purview to make changes on how much and the timing that the PIGO funds are available. Additionally, with respect to the bond fund, the county that I'm sorry, state law allows flexibility for the county to request an extension for bond funds. To the my fellow board members, I would urge the board that it's premature for us to make any decisions regarding whether funding for the third school under our bond, our current bond
005plan will be available until such time the county advises us otherwise. for the board. I also want us to consider the implications on the bond plan and the CIP by including schools that we have voted for and its implications. This was not addressed during our previous meeting. So, I wanted to make sure board members considered that imp those implications of introducing schools that we did previously vote on and also the impact on potentially voting on a school closure plan which may go contrary to our past board decision. I did want to pause here and I just wanted to ask we've got our board attorney up here and so one thing that I had a wondering about I had a couple of board members reach out to me about was if we were to include schools
006in our school closure plan that we already voted to include in our bond plan and our CIP. What do we need to think about from a legal standpoint? Absolutely. So the board has previously approved >> it's on because the board had approved the bond plan in the CIP. You do um revisit your CIP every year and reapprove it every year. Um but what the under county policy and under the the interlocal agreement that you have approved um any changes to that plan you know in order to receive funding for something different than what you have previously agreed on you would need approval of the county commissioners and so you know they would have to agree to the change in your plan. >> Thank you. So board members, I just want to pause here and just
007see if there are any comments based on just some of the stuff our attorneys share, but then also the update from the school collaboration meeting regarding the position of the county with respect to the bond and payo funding. >> I think it might be helpful in the community. Everyone may not be aware what the PIGO funding is. So it might be good to explain that. Good boy. I may need to tag in Mr. Sherroi to help me on this one. >> There we go. >> So, I used to wonder what PIGO funding was. So, PEGO funding in essence, it's cash. It's cash that the county is able to uh obtain through real estate assessment through through taxes. So, in the idea of the county when they uh said that they were going to be funding
008PGO to both of our school districts and providing uh 10 million a year for the next 10 years, it was by an increase in the tax rate. Uh and that's what the uh board of county commissioners uh toiled and deliberated over last June uh when they approved the current fiscal year budget of what they could be able to approve or not. But it it is cash but is directly tied to the real estate taxes that our residents and businesses pay who who rent or lease properties. >> So if I may interject the the understanding is as as Mr. Sichi said that the the commissioners have committed 300 million slightly less than that of which about 260 million was borrowed from the bank essentially and then the rest of it they are anticipating being able to
009fund as they go pay as you go through tax revenues. >> Thank you. >> That's correct. or members. Any other comments or questions or thoughts? >> Go ahead, Ronnie. >> Yeah, I have a clarifying question. I think in our last meeting we did vote on the number of schools. So, I'm I'm wondering sort of where where this new discussion is coming from. >> I think just as a reminder and I started off the work session, you know, we didn't take a vote. I think I did a temperature check in terms of where board members were thinking on five schools versus three. Um, so I think that's something to keep in mind. Can you help me with how that's different than like so I feel like we kind of keep going backwards and we've got to
010sort of we're trying to move fast and I think we've got to be transparent both with the board members and with the community and if we say one thing in a meeting and come back in a meeting again. It's confusing to me as a board member and I'm sure it's confusing to our community. And so I feel like we have to put some lines in the sands. I left that meeting. I think folks left the meeting uh with the understanding that we had agreed to go to the five schools. I don't know who has authority to make that change without the board voting again. So just to clarify, I think it it also when when there was seeming like a cons, you know, some majority of the board thinking they wanted to go back to
011five, it did open the question of what do we do with our bond plan and what do we do with our CIP plan? And so, you know, that that was a wondering and that's why I asked because that was a vote. There was a resolution. There were motions. It was noticed that there a vote was going to happen on that agenda. There was no notice to the community that we were going to be voting on whether schools actually we reiterated that we were not going to be voting. This was a work session and we were going be going to be working through the school closure discussion. >> So, how would you suggest we move forward given where we are? like I I I don't know how to think about this as a board member. We
012made it I thought we left with the decisions. >> So we will ultimately vote on the school closure plan itself which will need to include which schools, how many and things like that. So once we come up with the criteria, that's when all that will happen. I'm hoping it's our next meeting. Go ahead. Um >> if I could through the statutory process that we've talked about for school closure um the board before closing any school has to um cause a study to be made of that school and so the the decision point for the board would be what are we going to study and and I think there would need to be a motion and a vote. We would like the staff to bring back a study of this school, that school, consolidate whatever it
013is. And that would be the clear statement of what studies you and then from the studies then it is perfectly fine and normal and understood that you may cause four studies to be done and then choose one of them or choose none of like that's the study is to bring back the information to help you make a final decision. Okay, thank you board members. Any other comments or questions? Go ahead, George. >> So, it I just want to say that I I think I understand this. I've left the last two board meetings a little bit confused about where we are on things. And you know, I did some >> mic. >> Thank you. Sorry about that. You know, I I um knocking things over. Yeah, I started looking things up, too. And we did our
014CIP. We did our CIP in April of 2025. We approved the capital investment plan. Um we approved the bond plan August of 2024. And in both of those, we named the schools to be replaced and and why and made plans. And then on January 15th, a month ago, um you took a temperature check, which I respect. And that at that time, the plan was to proceed on ahead. And on February the fourth or fifth, the last board meeting, we had another temperature check and the plan was changed by one vote to do something different. And that's where I say I left confused. It's like what are we doing that every time we show up at a board meeting we we change a plan because somebody brought up something and we reverse what we all decided
015unanimously just 12 months earlier. And so I was very confused and I I appreciate you're pointing out just the realities of I I I think we need to stick to our decisions. I know it's tough. This is the only opportunity we as a board have to actually discuss this stuff. We have to do it by law in an open meeting. So, if we could the clapping and the snapping, if we could just hold off, let us let us go through this. Okay? Right? Like we have to do this open and in front of you in public to be transparent. Okay? That that's just my one ask. Okay. Thank you. Right. Thank you, George. I don't know if somebody else Go ahead, Ronnie. Yeah, I I want to come back to this question of what decision
016was made when we voted on the bond because as the board member who served on the working capital group and the bond committee, I I'm closest to that and and and what I would just like to remind us is when we made the decision on how we would prioritize bond funding, we made the decision in a scenario that we would have funding streams that would continue to uh rebuild the other schools. We did not contemplate closing schools at that point. So when we talk about making a different decision, we are right. Like I don't know that the voters of the three schools that were not prioritized would have voted in the same way if they had known that their vote would say say you might be closed because you didn't make that top three list.
017So just as you would not want to be considered unfairly, I think we should include all of the schools in the same fair way. And and like this is just a different scenario. Like we did not contemplate closing schools. We said you will have fther future funding that will rebuild your schools and that's what the voters voted on. Again, please please thank you board members. Any other comments? >> Go ahead, Barb. >> Um I had some question. Mr. Sherro, could you come back? Thank you. I have a bunch of stuff for him. Is that all right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Um, Mr. Shroi, uh, could you just tell us how much involvement did you have? Miss Dossi just mentioned the capital needs work group and so you've been involved with that as well,
018right? >> Yeah. Um, so the capital work group started before I was employed here uh, for about a year and a half, but I've been involved for the past since July of 2022. It started about a year before that, I believe. And we had board members that were representative of that. >> And and as a result of the work group, there was a study that was commissioned by the commissioners, right, which is now called the Walpert Report, right? Among other things. That was one. >> That's correct. It was a report that had a two-prong approach. They were asked to look at to give an just an overall assessment of our facilities to determine what type of long-term funding the county would need to come up with. It was not to go in and itemize every
019single thing in the school, but it was to look at the schools, look at its condition and its age and decide given whatever money the count the targets that were provided by the county, what would they recommend with that. At the same time, uh part of it was the fact that enrollment trends have been declining and they asked the uh Walpert as the consultant to look at the optimization of of the school district when it comes to space utilization. So it was a two-prong approach where you know for many many months and I've always said you know it always said we had a thousand more elementary seats and I always would say they say two I used to say one school at that time until our enrollment trends changed but it was a two-prong approach
020of what they asked. So it was about in the end the commissioners it was about building newer fewer schools was the the premise of that report as the principles of the walpert report is what the county uses now the premise of this is what they were asking but they're not asking us to go and I use the word nickel and dime every single thing they put in it. It's the premise of trying to put our kids into the newest schools and also maximizing our space if it's underutilized at whatever grade level for both school districts not just us. And then just a couple follow-up questions about the Walper report. How much did the county pay for that report? >> So my recollection is uh total it was about $958,000. Uh 50% of that was paid
021by our portion of school funding and then Orange County paid the remainder out of what would have normally been appropriated by the county for schools. >> And the title of it again is facilities assessment, facilities optimization. >> It was facilities optimization. Optimization is the word that they used. And does that report includes include discussions of consolidation or closure? It it talks about utilization where it's if it was over or underutilized and ultimately the original scenarios that they created for the commissioners did include uh school closure as a as scenarios uh which is what ultimately I initially presented >> in May where I I I said you know gave a premise of at the time which can't do but we talked about consolidation of dual language uh and utilizing in the medal campus were ultimately at
022that time FPG and because they would go into a new building FPG and then Estie's Hills would have been I use the word at the time taken offline at the end of the phasing of the bond program originally. >> Okay. And in your >> it didn't land there though in the end the board did not approve that and we approved the replacement of three schools. So I want to be correct in saying >> right in in your opinion is that report combined with the analysis that staff is going to do sufficient to inform our deliberations or do you think we need to go get more data >> from someplace else? >> As far as a if we're looking at the age and the condition of the buildings, I do not think that that report did
023its job and it identified six elementary schools and two middle schools were the ones that had the greatest need. And you know, our staff would attest to that left and right from work orders and investments that you've made in the CIP. Those schools are all high flyers when it comes to we're putting a lot of money into them and they're reaching an age where all all six elementary and the two middle schools could experience catastrophic failure uh with mechanical, electrical, plumbing type infrastructure. Inside they look fine when you walk in. They may look the same as they did in 1958, but they're functional from the outside perspective. It's what's behind the walls that it's just it's served. They've all served their lives. >> And it's my understanding that the reason we've gotten a lot of
024requests or questions about why aren't we just looking at all 11 elementary schools, pick some criteria and look at all 11. >> Yeah. >> And that isn't what we've been talking about. And can you just tell us why we have to start from scratch? >> Since we started the bond program, you know, that's a question that gets asked uh for people who they're just not following meetings and that's normal, right? So Wilpert did that work for us. They looked at our entire portfolio and they said, "Out of all of your buildings, you do have needs at these schools, like we showed, we've talked about East Chapel Hill, Carrboro High School, the McDougall campuses. They've got roofing, air conditioning, but they're not 50 plus years of age yet." So it basically boiled it down to where
025they said, "Here are the schools again, the six elementary and the two middles that you need to look at when it comes to either replacement or renovation." And that's all based upon the money you have. They would they would say and and I vividly remember asking this because the county gave them financial targets for the scenarios. So they were fixed if money was no object because it was a billion dollars worth of work for both districts. They were they would have said replace all six elementaryaries and ultimately the two middle and we debated with the middle schools not with Phillips but we debated with Colbert that we didn't believe that Colbert was necessary to replace immediately but it's coming. Uh and we debated that. So they narrowed it down. They did that work. We don't
026need to do that work. Uh because it's really about in my world in operations. The fiscal side is we've got limited capital funding for maintenance and we have high costs and we have buildings that potentially we're going to have to pour a lot of money into and then that money is not going to be able to go into other buildings within our school district portfolio that are 30 years or less in age. So they narrowed it down for us. I I so I don't I would not recommend spending any more money and looking at what are the schools that you should be talking about. At least we're there and I could show you lots of data about maintenance and talk to teachers and everybody who can tell you our maintenance teams are in our six
027elementary schools every day. They are. And we we know that. We've all talked about that for many many years since I've been here. That's nothing new. >> I'm sorry, Al. I hope you don't feel like you've been grilled. I feel like every single order here a bit. Um I wonder though as we think about the charge before us today to maximize or maybe minimize our financial impact, would there be any different decisions? So maybe we would say like the schools that cost the most to fix we would not do right because that would result in more savings for the district. So I'm just trying to make that nuance of like when we so when we told the public that we you are selecting these three schools as priorities because these other schools are following not
028because these other schools will be considered to be closed right like how do we think about today the the maximizing the or minimizing the financial impact to the district and I'm sorry I like I don't want to put you on the spot I think that's a general question for all of us like >> I have again I'm I want to be careful I do not want to give any opinion I want to give you facts, but I have been very clear that the three schools that we presented ultimately to be replaced, those are the three worst. And if you were to ask our facility folks today, they would tell you they are at those three schools the most. But the other three that we're talking about, we're there often as well. They're right behind them.
029Uh but we are we are taking the oldest buildings offline that are costing us the greatest amount of money. Uh and that's objectively just sharing. Um, if that answers your question. I mean, it's >> it does. Thank you. >> Were there any other factors why we picked those three schools? I'm asking I know I know the answer and that's why I just want to make sure we're thinking about long term about if we we we make any changes to our bond plan. We also think about as a board, are we going to find ourselves right back at the these same schools? there there were multiple factors that were used when I presented back in May of 24 July. Um the two that prevailed out of all of the criteria that you as a board you
030had asked that community members were asking just like they are now similar things. Uh but the two were um could you replace a school on site to minimize student disruption because land is is a premium in our district. It's not as if we can just go find a site. The only site we had was adjacent to Morris Grove Elementary and we had the green track uh which is not ready to be developed yet. Uh but and that was determined that that was it's on the western northwestern extreme of our district. It was just determined not to be conducive, but ultimately that could be a site for a secondary school down the road because the county has earmarked that. So building um replacing buildings that could be occupied at the same time was paramount. The other
031was adjacencies to existing schools and um you know Estes Hills was adjacent to Phillips. We talked about the McDougalls and why McDougall Elementary at the time would not be a school to put as part of a consolidation for dual language because its adjacency and efficiencies at the middle school level and ultimately where we landed with FPG knowing that that was a school you couldn't build on site that there was sufficient land at Colorth Middle which kept that school in the community where it came out that 50% of roughly 50% of the uh students that attend FPG lived within a very short distance of that school just coincidentally today. Uh so it was decided that if we that you know our language schools and again I don't want people to misunderstand what I'm going to say
032they're language schools today but maybe they they may not be language schools in 25 years. So geographically we knew that that section knowing that there's a high number of children that are coming out of the southwestern portion of our district that we felt that geographically having the synergy of having FPG next to Colbreth allowed for those efficiencies for parents for transportation but at the same time the dual language program it allowed that to metriculate because Colulth is the logical and there's a huge number of students from FPG that metriculate into the middle school program at Colorth. did ultimately Carro High School. Um so those were the two factors that prevailed. We looked at other factors. We looked at um trails, public transit. Um we looked at numbers of students in non-transportation zone. We looked at
033the actual number of students that walk because the number of students, if you'll remember, the number of students that are eligible to walk versus actually walk, it's night and day. Uh because we had safe routes to schools counts. So you were able to at least talk about that. Uh and then we talked about trails and accessibility. Uh we did not get into master planning with the towns because we use that already with our demographers and they project the the yield. So that was a factor that was not really discussed in depth but that we did um we did talk about you as a board talked about and we just provided as much information as we could. But the first two things that I talked about, those were the prevailing ones that I believe that you
034as a board ultimately waited if you want to say as being important aside from just the fiscal part that was necessary. >> Thank you, George. >> Go ahead, George. And then Merida, >> um I don't want to put words in your mouth. You said minimize student disruption, geographic location, a number of things. I I don't think I heard you say tonight, but I have before additional costs and expenses of moving students temporarily out of buildings and all that. Is that a factor or am I putting words in my mouth? >> Not when not putting words in my mouth, but swing. We talked about swing schools and there are cases where swing schools could be advantageous for any school district where children might go and I'm just going to use a hypothetical. If a school was
035to be closed, but we knew it had maybe about three or four more years of life, we might use that as a swing school to allow movement. Or if there was an air conditioning failure at a school, you'd have a building that you could put the kids in temporarily while you're waiting for the new air system to be designed, manufactured, and transit. I would say from Canada because that's where most of them come from um to be able to install and we that's a risk we have in our district because we have so many buildings that are greater than 15 years of age. The county has readily admitted that they have not been able to fund the capital improvements that are necessary until recently that we obviously can benefit from a swing school because that's
036the concern that our facility departments have about our buildings. if there was a failure and we had to relocate students uh if it was a small building on a campus we could accommodate such as we did at SU uh recently but if it's the whole campus if it's like like scrogs which is one building and the heating and cooling went in that building and it was down we would have to do something with those kids and we would not have anywhere to put them uh there's just no space in our schools aside from having to at this point with underutilization have to sparse them out across many schools right and uh you know that's part of the reason why we want to look at the redistricting as well to balance our schools out if that
037helps. >> Thank you, Meredith. >> Thanks. I just wanted to take a second to explain my thinking a little bit because I've shifted a little bit over time. And you know, I think that the reason why you see seven people up here with seven different perspectives and that actually is a good thing, I think, for our district because we tend to debate these issues and then hopefully arrive at the best decision. And you know, I don't love the idea of considering three schools. I don't love the idea of considering five schools. It's not that one of those two ideas is a good one. It's that it's a necessary one. And so, you know, I I felt like in in an effort to increase our flexibility as we plan for the future, I wanted to have
038all five schools compared for a couple of reasons. One, for flexibility. two, because we're hearing from schools that were saying things like, you know, I wouldn't have voted for the bond if id known that our school was potentially going to be closed, which that's a hard thing to hear anyway because the problem is you vote the bond down, you still have to close two schools, and you don't have new schools on top of that. And so that's really a lose-lose for everyone, not only in our school district, but also Orange County schools, which are also recipients of the same bond money. Um, and so I really that hearing that just makes me feel like it makes me fret a lot. Um, you know, I understand that these issues are fraud and I I don't love
039the idea of like these competing school communities. It's very upsetting and I know it's upsetting for all of you, but I just I I guess I just wanted to say from my perspective is that we're trying to really think this through and decide what is the best decision for our district going forward. And that's the reason why like I pushed for the way that I did last time. And you know there's definitely some disagreement amongst us. But you know I hope that the public understands that we are taking this job very seriously and that we are are really trying to look out for the long-term viability and health of our district. So thank you Merida. Anyone else? Okay. Well, I just want to say I wanted to bring this up just mainly for the board
040members to consider like ultimately whatever we do with school closure, it may have a rippling effect on our bond plan. So, let's keep that in mind as well that you know hopefully board members will have time to chew on that and think about that over the next couple of weeks and what that might what those scenarios might look like. Um, so that that's where I'll leave it unless board members have any other questions or comments. Okay. All right. So, board members, after our last meeting, after we all shared a variety of ideas for criteria, I did ask the staff to help compile the list for us. Um, and since that list was extensive, I did also ask the staff for some input on the criteria because it was a lot. I think we ended up
041with like 50 or so, I'm sorry, um criteria. And so I did ask the staff if they could just give their input because they're going to be the ones tasked at least on the the first level of doing this work and I asked them to provide some input on the criteria and any considerations about the information being requested because we asked for things about like the cost of this and cost of that. I wanted to make sure that if whether the information was readily accessible and if they had any comments on gathering it. Um, also, um, I did ask that since time is a key driving factor for for our decision, I wanted to make sure that board members had, um, information on some of the impacts of the criteria that we were asking for
042and also the cost consideration too because even though Mr. Shoki and our team, they have a lot of information and we've gathered a lot of information as part of the bond process and and our general facility maintenance. There were some data points that when I looked at it, I did ask them, do we have to go out outside and get consultants for this? And so I did ask them to weigh in on that, too, because I think that's an important part of it because we're trying to save money, but if we go out and we're spending money as well just to get that information, I think board members need to know that too as well. Um, let's see. I did want to try to give us a little bit of framing how we think about
043it since our decision to close schools is a financial one. I know for community members it may feel like other, you know, there's other things that we we should look at, but it is it we're closing schools because it's a financial decision, plain and simple. It's not because we don't like a school or we don't think highly of a program. It's not about programs. It's not about anything with the in within the school. It is simply a financial decision that we have to make. So board members, I'd like for us to consider criteria that are objective and measurable measurable and that are based on information accessible now by Chapel Hill Carver City Schools staff. I don't want us to I would like for us to not consider external information that we can't analyze for school
044closure. I know there have been some anecdotal look at this thing out in the universe and that, but again, I just want us to make sure that it's something that's internal that our team can gather for us. Also, I al want to make sure we're grounding our decision as a facilities decision. As I said before, I want to remind us that we're not making decisions around programs. I repeat, we're not making decisions about programs. Okay? So, please don't worry about your programs. as a part of school closure. Programs that are in place will continue to operate and students will be able to continue on those pathways of those programs. We are not discussing programs at this time. We are only talking about physically closing buildings. Again, today we are still not voting on any of
045the final criteria. We're narrowing down the list or even which schools we're going to have as the school closure as part of the school closure study. We'll do all that at the next board meeting. we'll we'll kind of move towards crafting what all that looks like. It'll be on and my hope is we can if we can get to a criteria list. It'll be as discussion and action again. It'll be another time for the board to discuss and if we need to finesse it one more time and I urge the board that we vote as quickly as possible so we can start this start this work and um for the staff. Um, and with that, I'm going to stop if any other board members have any comments before we start working. George, go ahead. >>
046Yeah, I wanted to um, you know, offer I guess offer a suggestion and if y'all just say no, just forget it. Um, I we only have one deadline date right now and that is we need to have our budget ready in the spring for next year. Our request to the county commissioners. So that in terms of our time forces and everything, I don't think we need to be constrained by any date that we put in place to do anything. And I would suggest that we take a big deep pause for a minute here and slow things down a little bit with this in mind. Uh, and this came from talking to some parents today, and I've heard this over and over. There's a lot of confusion about how much money do we save by closing
047a school and how many staff are going to get laid off. And could we lay out for the public a list of how many teachers or staff, not by name and by school necessarily, but where are we going to find our savings versus closing a school? And so voters could have time to look at the stuff we're having to deal with. Let's say we need to find $8 million and we need to find it in the next X months for next year's budget. We could say we'll lay off 40 staff, we'll close one school and this is how we'll get to 40 million. Or we close two schools and we lay off 20 staff. But these are our realities and that we develop them in general categories, put them out in the community, have a
048public hearing or two next month and let people you give us some ideas. Okay, here's our problem. We want to hear from you so that when we get down the road, we can say, look, we're doing everything we can to protect staff, so we have to close these schools. Or we make a decision to go a different way. I think you're getting my drift here. rather than start doing criteria tonight for how we judge closing a school. I just think that might be a more productive because we're not under any constraint to meet a deadline for that. So, I off just offer that. >> Thank you, George. Barb, >> um George, I don't know if you're suggesting moving away from the timeline that we put out last time. Is that what you're >> I I
049think we would have to back up a little bit on that. So, I was just going to ask Dr. Trice if you could just explain to us what are the financial and human costs of having this timeline drag out. >> So, certainly the timeline we um shared with the board at I think it was your February 5th board meeting um was in response to you know the numbers that we see regarding declining student enrollment. We were a bit um taken uh a back when we had about 350 um less students enrolled in our district this year. It translates into $2.6 million as I've shared with our uh community um through various community sessions. Um but in addition to that, we've also received word that the board of county commissioners are considering um other uh funding
050models for local schools as well. So I think Mr. Scott has modeled for the board that we're looking at anywhere from 3.6 to $8 million potentially giving given the scenario that we would be presented with. So um in my mind as superintendent um the timeline is important because I have to present the board with a balanced budget. Uh our approach initially was to focus on uh school closure uh as was um shared with the board at your December retreat because that provided us a longer runway to work with our staff and during many of my community sessions in the fall staff was there and they wanted that longer uh runway. Many parents wanted the longer runway. We obviously have to deal with our facilities issue which is one reason we present it to the board
051to first focus on uh facilities. Um I would say um Dr. Griffin is not too far off. Um, if we have to focus on personnel first, um, and let's say at the lowest tier, um, we're probably looking at 50 to 80 positions, um, that we would have to to reduce if we focus on that first. Um, and we still haven't dealt with the facilities issue on the back end where we will also have to, you know, reassign, rearrange our staffing as well. Um and so that's why the timeline is important for us. Um uh the idea that we also have to go through a redistricting uh is very important to the timeline. Uh we were seeking uh a decision by before the close of the school year because that would give families and staff and
052employees a year um to kind of go through the process of being resign reassigned. Um letting staff know where they may be working. um for staff who are often called singletons in our district. Uh that would give us more time to uh do placements as people retire or leave our district for whatever reason. Um and so hope I'm not talking too much, but that that's the logic that we were using as an administration to um suggest the timeline. If we were to kind of back off of that, you know, I don't know that we've done great analysis, but we want as much time as we can give to the redistricting process. Now, if we have to push that off another year, that has a whole another um whole other ramifications for staffing that we have
053not done the analysis for. >> And aren't we also trying to do this differently than we did the last reduction in force? I mean, I I just having been at community meetings with you, I have heard from staff like that that was very painful and hard and part of it was that there was so little notice to staff letting them know about the reduction in force. And my sense from the way you presented this to us is that you want to avoid that and give folks as much time as possible to to figure stuff out. And and I guess I would just add for I think uncertainty and instability in this process, us changing our minds and going back on votes that we took a year ago is really not good for families either. Like
054I think people need to see that we can be decisive and data driven, but decisive. And so I think I just want people to acknowledge that there is a cost to saying we need to add more criteria or add more schools or take more time and get in an expert. that is not a cost-free proposition. There there are human and financial costs with respect to staff and families. >> Yeah. And and I I want to acknowledge that, you know, I don't feel great, you know, backing the board up in terms of a timeline that we feel is appropriate because it does kind of force the issue a little bit. But, uh, when I saw that the enrollment decline was as precipitous as it was, the calculus changed for us in terms of how we manage
055the future of our budget and the future of our district. Since that time, you know, we've heard from Dr. dollar, you know, at our most recent board retreat. Um, it looks like our trends um will continue to follow that path. Um, and so in my mind, I think what we need to do is make decisions that um will allow us, you know, windows of time, perhaps two or three years, where we make a big decision, we stabilize for two or three years, and then come back and analyze where we are as a district before we have to make another big decision. Outside of that, we're kind of making year-to-year decisions about cutting staff. And I think that's something that um is destabilizing to to our to our staff, our district. Uh it's confusing. It has
056a significant impact on morale. Um and I'm and I have to say that if if we're not going to focus on facilities first, it will accelerate, you know, the staffing aspect of balancing the budget. Um, and there's just no other way to look at it. >> Thank you. There other questions or comments? Melinda, go ahead. >> Yeah, I'm going to Dr. T. I'm going to ask a question that I know the answer, but I want everyone to hear it. So, if we do not close a school or two, we will likely have to cut programs. >> I don't want to I don't think we will have to cut programs. I think we've been we've tried to be clear that our programs uh we're able to find a place for programs. I mean, if you look
057at our capacity, we certainly have the room for them. So, we're, you know, we don't need to to cut programs. Um, as was shared in our in the uh February 5th board meeting, I think it was 83 or 85% of our budget is staff. um if we can't uh close a school or two u which would generate you know $3.4 million which would give us a longer runway to kind of manage our budget issue um then we'll have to turn to uh the biggest lever that we have and that is our our staff and and I'm not just talking about school staff talking about central office staff as well. Uh, and I know some people say, "Yeah, we can cut all the central office staff." You know, that that's a popular opinion. Um, but what
058you also have to realize is that um, some of the work that is done at central office will roll down to schools, which won't feel great to those who are in our schools. >> Thank you, Dr. Trice. Any other comments or questions? Okay. So, I think we've got the criteria list that was available for members. Um, again, as you can see, it has the comments of the staff that I asked. I just wanted to get their input, right, to help us a little bit. Um, I guess we could go criteria by criteria if there's any thoughts. Go ahead, Vicki. >> So, I just want to um say a few things to try to help bring us into the the climate of what's going on here. Yes, we know it's a physical situation and yes, we
059know it feels like a very physical situation, right? So, I just want to help everybody understand as we're saying that this is monetary and it is physical. It is. But we also have to realize how some of the pro some of the ways that we got here, it was not new. It was not overnight. And I know a lot of us are saying, we hear this, we hear this over and over again. But let's let's look at it and put it in very real clear plain language because that is what I like to do. And before I even do that, I want to give you a kind of a simple analogy because there are a lot of educators, a lot of parents in here, and we have to do a lot of work with our
060kids when it comes to like math, right? So, if a teacher gave your child a problem and said a + b plus c equals 20, that could be a lot of different things, right? And you don't know all the possibilities. But if that teacher then said to your student a + b plus c= 20, but I'm going to tell you now c equals 4, that changes that. So, I just want to leave you with that to think about that analogy. Life changes from day to day. And we have to think as such. But I want you to go back and think of look at some other things. Glennwood was built in 1952. It is 74 years old. 74 years. I want you to think about what a dwelling that needs to do what it needs
061to do in 2026 that was built 74 years ago. What the implications would be to keep that doing what it's supposed to be doing for the number of people it needs to do it for. That's not the same as when someone says, "Oh, but my house might be passed down generation to generation and that does it." That's for a single family home or duplex. It might be having 15 people over all of that time going in it, not hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. So, that's very different as well. So, we're looking at Carro. It's now 69 years old. FPG is 63 years old. SU is 57 years old. Ephesus is 54. Essis Hills is 68, SU is 57. Those buildings are older than the majority of the people in this space. And I'm
062saying that to say that if we're truly trying to do what's right by our children and we're not talking about what they're how they're being educated in spaces, we're talking about being responsible for the spaces in which we send them to be educated. 74 years old. And now let me go ahead and say this because this is also something that means something to me that's not just physical. I'm going to say this publicly and I'm going to mean it when I say it. Glennwood is the only building left in the Chapel Hill Carbell City Schools that was built to only educate white people. That needs to be said and it needs to be heard. I know when the first black child went to that building and we had other schools that weren't integrated at the
063time they came online, but they were after Brown and the intention was for them to be integrated. That is not the case with Glenwood. So, as we're talking about diversity, as we're sitting to talk about what we're wanting to do, let's think about our history and let's think about the space that we're sending all of our different children that was never intended for them to be in that space. So, I know I needed our community here and know that. >> Thank you, Vicki. Okay. All right, board members. So, we've got our list of 64 criteria. Um, why don't we start with the first I mean, well, why don't we look at the first four because that's where the staff has recommended. Um, So, previous five-year capital maintenance cost, project projected 10-year capital maintenance costs, feasibility
064of building on site while students remain enrolled, and building adjacency to middle or high schools. I don't know if any board members have any comments or thoughts about any of those four being included as part of the our criteria. George and then Ronnie. >> Uh, Madame Chair, are just a point of I guess clarification. Are are you about to take us >> Thank you. >> through this. >> Take us through all three all 60 plus of these one by one. >> I mean, that's what we're going to need to do. We've got to whittle down the list, George. Unless you think unless there's a different way we'd like to approach it. I I I'm not going to keep interrupting and saying it, but that that that was my point was we're getting ahead of ourselves
065here >> because this presupposes that we're closing schools and I would suggest that we we we take a little pause here on this and put that put out the dollar figures that Dr. Trice was mentioning to say, "Look, here's the deal and let people see it and digest it and talk about it a little bit before we just we'll be here till 3 in the morning and we still won't have answered the big questions and that is the schools to be closed." Um, we're just gonna >> Go ahead, Barb. >> It just seems like an exercise. >> All right, Mr. Scott. Um, can you could you comment, please? and then I'll come to you. >> Uh, can you So, how school closure is a really big deal, which I think is what George is getting
066at and no one wants to do it. Nobody ran for the school board to close schools, but so how can we be sure that we've tried everything else and that this is a thing that we need to do. >> Yeah. So, let me be clear first like I I didn't apply for the job and get the job to close schools either, right? This bothers me just as much as everybody else. Um so again just to reiterate uh what Dr. T said we we know that we have a tremendous amount of uncertainty that we're facing right from we know that we're going to have a need from 3.1 to 7 million going into next year. Don't know what that's going to be precisely yet and we won't for a couple months. Um but we also know
067that 82% of our staff is personnel. Um, going back to the dollar, chapel dollar that we spent so much time on, we knew 82% is personnel. The rest is non-personnel. Of that, at least 10% or 10 cents of the remainder is fixed costs that cannot be changed. Electric bills, uh, insurance bills, transfers to charter schools. Um it's simply not possible to find the order of magnitude of cuts that the board is going to need to find over the course of the next two or three years in non-personnel costs. Right? So I pretty confident that we can turn over every rock. We may be able to find a small portion of that. Um again if we do that curriculum is going to suffer. Uh maintenance needs at the schools are going to suffer. Um ultimately to
068balance the budget as we continue down this road um with uncertainty uh with the declining enrollment and then the possibility of a change in funding formulas, it's going to require the administration to reook at how we allocate positions across the district and the only way to make up that savings year every year is going to be sustained cuts to staff. Um there's really no other calculus that will work to keep us with a balanced budget. Now, how soon that happens, I'm unsure. You know, it all depends on many variables. U you know, we don't even really know what our enrollment will be next year. So, it could go faster or slower than we anticipate. Uh but again part of the calculus with the closure of the schools out two years would be to provide a
069uh you know a first first look first stop gap to try and prevent some of these uh I don't want to say mass layoffs because I don't think there'll be mass reductions in force but they will be reductions in force. Um, if we continue to run 10 elementary schools at lower than 80% capacity, you know, the DNA of what our schools what our elementary schools are are going to change significantly just because we're going to have to reduce the amount of resources that has made Chapel Hill what it is in each of those schools. The schools will be unrecognizable over a period of time. >> Could you just flesh that out like what what makes what kinds of positions are going to get cut because it's not going to be the ones funded by the
070state, right? Because those follow the enrollment. >> Yeah. So that's I mean an in elementary school like obviously you have uh your K3 teachers are funded directly by student enrollment. Um but beyond that we have um teacher assistance in every K3 classroom. Uh we're funded about 100% over what the state funds and teacher assistance. Um so I'm not saying that that's where we would go to the cut, but that would be a potential cut. Uh world language programs um you know those positions are not funded by the state. We have 10 world language teachers across elementary schools. So that would be a potential place to go. Uh supporting services, school psychologist, school counselors. We have one of those in each elementary school. Again, not funded by the state per school. It's funded by ADM. So
071we'd have to reook at how we model our supporting services. Um it's really the whole gamut of instruction. Um, you know, you've as a board have seen where we've put up um, you know, our state positions versus our local positions and it would really just be going down that list of, you know, local positions and, you know, how we can slowly begin to remove some of that, you know, from each school to to maintain them. >> Thank you, George. That I think our followed up is a follow-up question to that. I don't think people understand because you haven't put dollar figures to positions yet, but to save a million dollars, you're talking about it 11 or 12 teacher positions. >> That's right. It'd be 11 or 12 teacher positions. >> We need $5 million. Do
072the math. >> I'm talking 60 teachers. >> We're not talking six. And it's got to be done by April. Am I incorrect? >> Depending on where everything falls. I can't >> I know I'm not you down. >> I mean, this is this is the real cost here. And when we do 50 teacher positions or 40, we raise class sizes by x%. We pull out support staff. This is all out of our local budget that comes from the county commissioners and they have to have these numbers by the spring for next year and we still haven't guaranteed anything for the year after or the year after. This situation is dire. It is not a a something we can just oh it'll be five people or something. It's not that. It's huge. >> Am I am I
073being dramatic? Not overly, but no, not overly. >> Okay. Board members, I don't know if you have any thoughts or comments about that. So, so George, I don't I guess for me, and I'm just going to let you know, for me, I don't I don't want to pull the lever of personnel first. >> I don't either. I'd rather close two schools. I've said it for two years. >> Okay. So, I I think for me, that's where I am. And that's why, not to not hear you, but I understand you wanted to see if we needed to entertain that. >> Understand the need for doing this is real. It's not just a little bit of money here or there. And it's it's a real force choice. >> No, I know. And and I think one thing
074that we want to make sure there's going to be personnel loss, right? And there's going to be ongoing personnel loss because I think Mr. Scott on a number of occasions, we've talked about the enotments. And so as enrollment drops, the a lotment of staff is going to change. And so we're going to have to continue to do this. This isn't new. This is just new to Chapel Carver City Schools. This happens across the country in every other district. We just haven't done it. We've maintained and held harmless our schools and our district operating at 50 and 60% capacity, having nice small small class sizes, and that's come at a fiscal cost to us. That means we can't raise staff pay. We can only raise it a little bit, right? we can't be responsive to our
075student data. So, I appreciate what you're saying, George, is like it's either close schools, which also will have some staff reductions or we immediately go back down that road of now we're going to go and cut 50 to 60 staff across the district. That means we won't have the nice of like a nurse in every school or, you know, the full complement of the mental health supports that we value in our community at every school. That means all the things like a TA to help support our teachers because they do a lot. So I think that's just I appreciate you wanting to help ground and balance it. It's not a fight of don't close my school. It's like we have to close two schools full stop and we need we need the community to understand
076we have to do this. This is really hard and it's really sad. >> Go ahead Vicki. And just to add that in terms of what we don't have and what we do have in terms of um all of our schools, we do often hear that we have a nurse in all of our buildings and all of our schools. We our Phoenix Academy right next door, they do not have a nurse all the time. They do not have transportation all the time. They have an evening program that many of you probably do not know that they have. It is a spire program where our most marginalized and vulnerable high school students who want to go to school who are trying to figure out a way to get to and from school because we need to figure
077that out. That's real dollars and cents because if our elementary kids and our middle school kids and our other high school kids have an opportunity to get to and from school in a safe manner and they have those nurses in those buildings, we need to be figuring out how to do that also. So, I need to lift that up because so often we will say all of our buildings, but as the liaison to that school, I need to make sure that I uplift and let us know that they don't have that and they deserve it just as much as all of our other children and all of these other buildings. So, we have to be fiscally responsible to them, too. This is our responsibility to be collectively responsible for all of Chapel Hill Carver City
078Schools, not just this school versus that school. This is no this school versus that school. We need to think about the fact that until we're doing better, where every single one of the schools that's online is considered the best of what we have here, we're not doing our best. And when you have enough space in schools with about eight elementary schools and then you still end up with 11 elementary schools, then that's not the best we can be doing right now because it's not like we have two that are just empty that we could just shut the doors. They're spread out in spaces that a lot of people have never had the luxury of having it so spread out. So when we have what what you asked for as time went on in the population
079in our district, we want a neighborhood school. We want a neighborhood school. That meant different things. So now the neighborhood may need to spread, may need to get a little bit further, but Chapel Hill is not 25 square miles. No one's going to be going to school 45 minutes away. That is just not the reality of what we have. And I would go to say that any educator that's in in any of those buildings that is ready and prepared to educate all of our students can educate all of them in any one of our buildings and that is the task at hand and that is what we need to do. So closing a building may very well be difficult but at the end of the day that means we will be consolidating people. We will
080be combining communities, bringing us hopefully more together to build a better community. We need to stop thinking about what's right next door to us and think about how much better we'll be what's down the street and around the corner. >> Thank you, Vicki. >> Ronnie, I know you were next, so >> that's okay. No, we've got to have the discussion. And so I was going to go back to the um criteria um and as uh reason you asked us to look at the top four. Uh I have a wondering I think the first one is um previous cost. I think that's a sunk cost that's captured in number two. So I would not >> I would recommend that one probably not be included >> or com or do you want to combine? >> No, I
081think it doesn't matter, right? Like that money is gone. It shouldn't influence our future decisions. >> Okay. And so if there if as it relates to future potential needs, it's already captured in number two. >> Okay. >> And then I think we should consider if this is a financial exercise, the cost of building the various schools. If we are trying to save, we want to be um avoiding the maximum amount of cost, right? Um I think just I have a couple more. I'm sorry. Which number was that? >> Um, it's kind of an eight. Like, it's a cost avoid. It's actually nine. >> Okay. Yeah. And then 35 is my computer's freezing. And let me back up. The reason why I said the first four is because when I looked down what the staff said,
082they had a number of them were like, "This is available." Like if we look at item number four, number two. Yeah. Just so you guys are just that's why I said let's just try to look at the first four because there were a number of them. >> I don't see how 30 I mean I don't see how these are included in the >> No, no, I just I just wanted to say that just in case somebody else Yeah. >> was looking. >> 35 is about campus openness and safety. Like I would not I would want to understand what that would look like across the site selection site adequacy. Why would we shut down a school if another site is not adequate space to re rebuild a school? And then uh 37 is alignment with town.
083>> So do I. Oh, >> sorry. It's just 935 36 37. >> Okay. Okay, >> Meredith, go ahead. Sorry, I was typing. >> Oh, that's okay. Um, I just wanted to point out a couple of things. one is that in this long list, I think some of these criteria are definitely valid, but I think they're better suited for consideration um in talking about redistricting versus >> um school closure because I think that, you know, it's kind of hard to talk about one without the other because it's it's really all interconnected. Um, but I do think like I'm trying to find one for example, but but I do think a lot of these will have to be part of the larger study that we do in concert with a demographer when we decide how we're going
084to redistrict. Thinking about um, you know, hardship and, you know, making sure that folks don't have undue burdens and looking at, you know, equity and things like that are certainly going to be super important when we talk about the redistricting. Um, that's not to say that they're not important at all when talking about closures, but I think they're I would I would align them more with the redistricting. >> Okay. >> Um, and then I think that >> that like if we're trying to focus mostly on cost, like we we need to look and see at least take a an overview look at costs of transportation. I was a little surprised that that wasn't included in the initial criteria. Um, >> can you expand how so? Because I know when I was going through the list
085and talking with the staff and that was the feedback, it's going to be hard for them to kind of estimate transportation costs until we actually decide because that's a redistricting question, right? like we can close the school, but then until we move the children >> Mhm. >> or start talking about moving the children around to different schools, that transportation number of like school closure may not be complete. So, >> I wonder if you could look at it more as like a binary thing than a um than looking at like actual cost, but like like a campus um yeah, like a campus that has like a much higher number of walkers than another campus. like that could be quantified in kind of like a zero or one binary choice rather than you're looking at the actual
086like okay we're going to pay this much more in bus transportation and we're going to have to you know make this alteration to deal with carline issues that might result from more cars or whatever it is that's probably too nebulous but maybe we can distill it a little bit more um so that it's a factor but it's not I'm I'm looking at staff on some of that because I'm I don't I don't know how clean that'll be, but okay. With respect to one through four, did you want to pull any? Do those seem fine? And then also, were there some other ones? I'm just trying to follow a little bit. >> Yeah, I I I like the the first four for sure. And I think three and four are pretty easy, right? Because those are
087also binary. Like those are either are or they aren't. >> Um the first two I kind of agree with Ronnie. think you could consider those kind of redundant, but I guess I I would only caution you to completely remove the what she called a sunk cost because if somebody like if a building just got a new roof and a new wing or something, then it seems like that should be considered. >> Um, but I but I hear you >> that so you would not see that cost in the projected 10 years. So you would it would be captured there. That was the only Okay. >> Okay. But any but any others on the other 60 >> um >> criteria? Any ones that you'd like to keep? >> Yeah. I mean, you know, >> I I
088got you on transportation. If you when you get a minute, if you could just kind of identify which one. >> Yeah. I mean the only other ones that I would like specifically point to and like this one again is like a nebulous one and it would create it's subjective. Um >> but I do think like looking at impacts on specific groups like that cause undue burdens. I think there needs to be a way to to look at that. Um but it has to be a way that is quantifiable and objective and it's that's going to be challenging. Could we think about just doing the and I know we're calling it something different just the general REIA racial equity impact assessment just doing it generally speaking and I'm looking at Dr. Tric at that one that
089maybe we just apply it generally versus making it a criteria is I mean that sounds reasonable to me but feasibility wise I don't know. >> Yeah. Yes. I think the first question is who experiences benefit or burden? I mean, it's not um specific to race, right? >> Um so that might be something that we could look at, especially in in terms of programming. Um so we'd have to dig into that a little bit more. >> Okay. And that one was I'll find the number on that one unless you have it, Meredith. >> The number >> the equity. >> Yeah, >> I guess it's that 45 through 48 cluster. >> Correct. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. I don't know, George. I'm sure this isn't going to be too helpful to the process, but when we
090redistrict students, it's 25% to 35% of kids at any typical school are going to get moved to another school. Our vacancy rate is 75% fill rate, 25% vacancy, and going up. The vacancy rate is today. So, when you get moved in redistricting, you basically had your school closed. It's the same thing for you as a family. You're no longer in your home school and that's going to impact a huge number of students. Yeah. >> And I think we need to have criteria that match and we're not there yet. But with that aside, I want to point out how arbitrary this gets >> with the yellow ones that are here. We have a recommendation and I and I respect the school district for the recommendation to have adjacent to a middle school. Well, that's fine except
091we've just eliminated with that recommendation two two schools from the discussion. And so I might want to put out another one which is and I actually do feel this makes sense is we should have our nine elementary schools geographically spread around the district. And if we close two particular schools in the northeast quadrant, we leave basically a school desert east of Franklin Street and north of Colombia. I'm talking Ephesus and and Glennwood. So all of a sudden we have left the future of the district with three or four quadrants of our district have lots of schools and one doesn't. Now does that criteria become more important than adjacent to middle school? That's where you this gets arbitrary. >> You can't weigh this is more important or that's more important if you don't have hard numbers
092to look at. So I would say take any criteria off the list, >> okay, >> that just don't have raw data and even then make sure the list is guidance and not binding on anybody. This is just guidance for the board. Otherwise, I think we're in real dangerous territory. >> Okay. Thank you, George. Melinda, go ahead. >> I'm looking at number 33 about flood zones. I think we all still remember Shantel and they mentioned it in terms of new building but I think we need to think about I don't know if any of the three or five schools are currently in a flood zone that we need to think about that because we may have another Shantel Vicki and Barbick or Barb, I don't know if you're ready. >> Okay, if you're ready, Barb. I
093I like the four the four that have been identified and it's mostly because I'm not smarter than I mean I think we have some people who really know about this topic and this is what they think and it makes sense to me and I don't I don't know what expertise I have that overrides theirs and and I think these meet the criteria we had laid out like the criteria about the criteria they're objective they're measurable they're grounded in facilities and their their information we have and they're based on the present and not projections. So, I'm fine with those. >> Okay. Are you ready, Vicki? Okay. >> Um I'm not hellbent on number four based on the the information and the explanation. Um the um I like when it's nice to have elementary schools next to
094a middle school or a high school. I think that's nice. Um I don't feel that that should be a criteria because some of our elementary schools are really close to a middle school and a high school that may not be right next to it. We can give an example of Su and Morris Grove. They are all very close. U Morris Grove is not that far from Smith and Chapel High. But I say that to say that in terms of the reasoning in terms of academic acceleration, I'm I'm I don't know that I feel too comfortable with that being a specific reason for a facility to be next to another facility because we have to think about all of our students and all of our students are not going to be needing to be right next
095to another facility because of advanced academic acceleration. So I'm I just I just don't know how I feel about that. So, I'm for those reasons, I'm not pressed about that criteria being a part of the the conversation for me. >> Okay. Any any other ones? I know you're still looking. I know it's a long list. I'd like a little more explanation as to the shuttered building. >> Which number is that? >> 26. Use of shuttered buildings as swing space. >> I don't know who put that on the list. >> I don't know. Dr. Tric, do you remember from our discussion >> who put it on the list? Is that the question? >> I guess what? I don't Yeah, let me or why. Does somebody remember why? >> Yeah, I I I don't think I put
096on the list, but I think the conversation was like um it may be more relevant as we close a school that we could use that facility as swing space for a second school. >> Okay. >> For constructing the second >> for constructing. Go ahead, Barb. I guess um I know that Mr. Shroy has done some research on best practices and school closures and so I'm just wondering if you can share like is there an ideal number of criteria that people recommend? Like it doesn't seem like we should have a ton. Like I feel like that's going to be really unwieldy, but is is four like what most people Yeah, >> I will say this as objectively as possible. Um, so a lot of the research and I'm hoping I don't go down a lot of
097rabbit holes here, but the research it basically says you need to have measurable items >> and that school closure it can be separate from boundary process. Mostly all school districts there is school closure because of financial reasons. That's what draws it unless the state is mandating that they have to close schools for the most part. Uh so what what I've learned uh in in looking at this is you want to you can have paralysis by analysis and I've used that phrase for quite a while but that's what the research is saying. You got to you want to make sure that you have objective information and that you if you have subjective information that's qualitative that it'sformational. It helps just inform you as a board but it's not weighted. It's not part of it, but it
098does help you inform just like ancillary information, which I imagine some of the stuff you guys have talked about tonight. It's important to talk about, it's important to be aware of so that you're informed. Uh, but the other the other re thing the research says, which is not answering what you're saying, is all of the research when you look at the feedback from school districts who have undergone this and they're like, hm, let's do a post-mortem on this and say how how the well this worked or it didn't work. What they will say is giving staff and parents runway. We've talked a little bit about that, but that's what people who've been through this painful process will say. The more runway you give parents, so that when people enroll, they know that this school, just
099like when you redistrict, in two years, you will be going to this school at this address. And people understand that and they can prepare for it as well as teachers can prepare, staff can prepare. Uh because what they do is there's a lot of studies out there where people have had to rip that band-aid really fast because fiscally they couldn't pay the bills. And that's where they would say if they had just been proactive and been ahead of the game, it would have been much smoother because people have to process it and pe and mistakes are made is what research says when you rush into something and don't give people time to be able to process and figure out how it's going to impact them and then how do they actually make it happen. And
100that that's really about making it happen. It's about the staffs and the adjustments because they're being moved to different schools as well. It's not just the students. It's everybody that's involved. So if that helps. >> Matt, Madam Chair, may I just >> Sure. Go ahead. as well. Just from the the school closure statute, in my understanding of the consideration of criteria is in part that what the board is doing is identifying what data you want included in the study that you would review. >> That's correct. >> And so just as a reminder, there are certain topics that will automatically be covered because they're required in the study. Now they are general but um geographic conditions, anticipated increase or decrease in enrollment, the inconvenience or hardship that might result to pupils affected, the cost of providing
101additional facilities are which in this case you wouldn't need additional facilities, but those are required by the statute to be included. So all of those will automatically be in there. Okay. >> Thank you. part. Did you have a >> Okay, Meredith, go ahead. I have a question about that because like 56 and 57 are anticipated increase in enrollment and anticipated decrease in enrollment. Both of those were not recommended by staff, but if that has to be included. So what the um what the the statute just says anticipated increase or decrease in school enrollment. It doesn't necessarily mean just in that school, right? I think the fact of anticipated increase or decrease in your district is relevant. Um and the if the answer is you know that the anticipated increase or decrease in a certain school
102based on um location is not, you know, is is sort of irrelevant because we're going to redistrict. That's okay. But it just has to be addressed. >> Okay. Any other board members thoughts? >> Go ahead, Melinda. >> I I've been struggling with number three for a while because to me that criteria is as much about deciding which schools are going to rebuild as deciding which schools to close. So, I'm just I'm kind of struggling with that one. Hold on a second. Let me get there. Feasibility of building. All right. So, and George, you want us to consider any C any We only consider criteria that give us data. You didn't recommend any. >> I'm just recommending. >> Okay. Um, you know, I'm a Well, I haven't spoken, so let me take a stop. You know,
103I'm open to I was open to seeing what staff wanted. Um, and and I was just listening to board members as they talked about like why one not the other. I think for me maybe it's the wording of one, but if we've already made significant um for number one significant investments in maintenance and I guess you could get that with one and two. So, I would probably combine it like if we've already made significant investments in a school, I want us to make sure we kind of understand that holistically before we say, well, let's take a school that we just spent $3 million on offline for a new roof, right? I'd want to make sure we kind of balance that in our thinking because that means that school doesn't need a roof, but then another
104school might need a roof and I want to make sure I I'm looking at it that I'm not picking the school that needs a roof, >> right? So you should we'd see that reflected in number two in a lower future cost of maintenance. >> There you go. Yeah. >> So that's why I think two already captures it. >> Yeah. But I for the staff, I wouldn't want them to not not make sure they they flush that out. So I'd probably want to make sure we're clear on that. That for me would then probably make that like a higher criteria for me in terms of things that I would consider. money. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. Like the overall capital cost. So, looking at both like the fact that we've already spent a lot
105of money means we don't have to spend a lot of money to maintain a site. And so, that would be a how I would balance it. the feasibility of building on site. I know Melinda said that's something for um you know building but I think I want to make sure that we don't lose sight like if we choose to close a school like what are we going to do? So I don't I don't know how that how we fold that into a criteria because let's say we close a school but you can't build it on site like what are you going to do? Um, >> but wouldn't that closed school give you swing space, >> right? That closed school would give you swing space. But then if you choose a school that you can build
106on site, the converse and you choose to close that school and you choose to leave the other one open and it flips into the bond. Like where are you going to build the new school? Well, you going to build it where you just close the old school, right? was the idea that if you don't close a school then you would have to rebuild it because these are your oldest schools and so the question was which ones could in the future be rebuilt and where we and where we would rebuild them to right like if we chose to close the school right and leave one open and then it would roll into the bond it would be part of the bond we probably need to balance It's like, well, where are we going to rebuild that
107school? So, let's say there's a school and you can build on site. I think you need to balance that, right? Somehow, I don't know how to capture. That's why I think I suggested this one. It's like that needs to be b for me that needs to be balanced, too, because let's say we choose to close a school where you can build on site and we choose to leave one open where you can't rebuild on site. That's going to be potentially part of the bond. And so in three years, where are we going to rebuild that school? Do you understand? >> Yeah. I I think for me that was part of the calculus in picking the schools that we picked initially. >> And so to me, when you're if you're looking at the expanded list of
108schools, that would be a point in favor of continuing on with the same plan that we had before. >> Yeah. >> So I agree with that, but I just wanted to explain that. But I know there were some board members who didn't weren't in favor of three, but that that's why I think we can't I feel like we can't take that off the table, >> right? I mean, that's why I thought it was important because it was it was an important criteria when we were deciding like making the initial decision and so because we took that into account that is a reason why we would rebuild those schools instead of a school that we cannot do that. >> That's right. >> So, >> no, I agree with you. So, and then number four, I think
109I don't know. I mean, for that one, I'm okay with that. The staff, there weren't a lot beyond this for me that I was I mean, a lot of them I appreciate the staff saying, well, you kind of get to those numbers like projected m capital maintenance cost is going to get to a lot of this forecasting failures and in inevitability of capital needs and things like that. So, I'm fine. Not a lot of those cost measures are are fine with me. For me, I would I'm open to combining one and two in some way to make sure we get the holistic picture of long-term maintenance costs for a school building and its impact. Um, and I'd weigh that pretty pretty heavy. That would probably be for me the most more than 50% of the
110consideration that I would think about. But I know I didn't talk ask you guys about waiting, but I just want to say that that that would be the overwhelming I if if I were doing the math on what the staff suggested, I would even say higher. I would dare say that for me it would be even more significant. I don't know if board members have any other thoughts on criteria. So, I wonder if we uh call this down to a final list and then come back and put weights uh suggested weights to them. Sure. As best we can. Obviously, we have some where some board members have said some yes, some no to that. So, we'll we'll we'll sort that out. So it looks like generally keeping all 1 through 4 and then criteria 9
11133 35 36 37 I missed 18 sorry 18 45 and 48 but I think 45 and 48 Meredith I think that that was the cluster that we were open to figuring out a way to factor that in. Yeah, I would really look to the staff to um make some suggestions on how we could look at that in a um objective way. >> And I think to Vickiy's point like about number four, I agree. I think it is it's a very nice thing and and actually for more reasons than just >> acceleration. Um, but if we decided that we wanted to consider it, but we thought it was a nice thing as opposed to a necessary thing, then we could reduce the weight or, you know, we could play around with with the weight to make
112it not as as key of a criteria. >> And then transportation, the comment I had from you was figuring out a way to make it more binary versus dollars, just because that's a little bit harder to to calculate, right? Yeah, I'd be open to some suggestions on that. >> Okay, I think my notes are accurate at this time. Um, board members, any other thoughts, questions? And then comments on I think next steps. I mean, again, you know, my goal is to keep us moving, but obviously we also need to get us moving where we can get um the board to make a decision and and charge the staff with um doing the study. So, >> go ahead, Meredith. >> One more thing. I just I just wanted to say publicly like I have no appetite
113for leading with staff. Um >> Okay. So, thank you. Any other thoughts or comments? I want to make sure we we at least give staff a a next step. So, what are we thinking for the next board meeting is working on waiting of this. I think it would be good to get it down to like 15. I I don't know if we're there or not. I I feel like what I've heard people say they want to add to the four. It feels like like maybe we could just hammer this out for now. Like are there things that people agree just we can take off? Um it seems like I I gle I'm guess I'm inferring from what how people are talking about this that the ones that they're mentioning they want to be considered. So
114maybe just as for process suggestion, we add the statutory stuff that Eva said we have to have. I mean not Eva didn't say that >> the legislature >> the law said it. >> Um and then the other just for now just to keep us going have a more expansive list and just include everything everybody has said. >> Okay. >> But not what we haven't said. >> That's my suggestion. >> Okay. No, that like Thank you. Go ahead, Vicki. Can we get it so that the what's already in statute for us, we can put here? So if it's in statute, we can go ahead and take the recommendation off because this already in statute. We have no choice but to follow the law as you said. I'm just saying so on our document, can we have
115that there? Sh. >> Sure. Yes. I mean, I don't know that any of these are worded exactly like the statute, but a lot of them would fall under that umbrella. That way that that way that could help us reduce some items already. Would that help us, Madam Chair? You think reducing? Let me make sure I'm clear. So, we've got the five statutory requirements. One of them is kind of randomly broad. Such other factors as the board shall consider and Germaine. So, I'm going to take that one off. >> That's right. I want to make sure. So, we're talking about four items and then also the other ones that we've come up with. Vicki, let me >> No, I was just saying that if we're you if we're looking at the statute if that will help
116us to maybe tweak some of the other ones we had some because some of them may fall within those statutory guidelines. >> Okay. >> So, where we don't need to necessarily restate it. That's what I'm saying. >> Okay. But if it's harder to do it than not, I don't want to undo us. Second. You guys have a lot. And then this transportation one. How many do we have? Barb, I'm going to need your help. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. We are. So, we've got 15 >> of our own plus the four under statute. You got that? >> Are you counting all four of the equity ones as four separate? Because I mean, I think that could clearly be >> Okay. >> Well, then we'll we'll shorten
117that and I'll just say 45 through 48. And I'm going to need help with that one. >> 13. >> One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11. I have 12. You got 13 running. I I was just saying if you were 15 and taken off to you've got the number. >> One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, 10, 11, 12. >> Let me make sure I'm not missing one that somebody said. >> Yeah, the >> What is it? >> Melinda said keep 33. That was the flood one, right? That was the flood one, right? Melinda 33. >> So that would go under >> conditions. >> Yeah. So Melinda, could we assume that under geographic conditions that's flood? Okay. So we can take off 33 as its own standalone, but it'll be
118rolled up in there. >> And which one? >> Um 33 would go under geographic conditions. What? It would be part of the discussion for geographic conditions. Okay. >> What numbers? >> 33. >> Um, geographic conditions under the statutory. >> Oh, okay. >> Is that helpful? Okay. Any others that could fall under the statutory? with 44 through 48, all of the equity ones, could they not be um highlighted under the effect on students? If we're requiring ourselves to use that guideline, >> then that means we commit to requiring ourselves to use that guideline. I'm sorry, which one? >> 44 through 48. We have under the statutory requirements to look at the effect on students. >> Yeah, the >> so >> 45 through 48 could go under the inconvenience or hardships that might result to the pupils
119to be effective. >> But I'm saying any of those 44 through 48 that Meredith was speaking of, wouldn't they have to be looked at? >> Yeah. So, we move that to that one. I mean, I think that would help. >> Yeah, >> Meredith, if you fine with that. >> Yeah, that's fine. >> Okay. And how about the remaining ones? We've got 918 35 36 37 and then tra the kind of how we're looking at transportation. I mean we could Okay. I don't know. I'm trying to figure out how to three would go under would would we say like three would go under the cost of providing additional school facilities or is that something different? I wonder if we um just put together the combined list for the next meeting and then as we wait them
120some of these might naturally kind of you know get the the scope of what how we want to consider them. >> Okay. >> And obviously let's think about waiting. I mean we don't have to. I wonder if a narrative concept around these topics might be helpful because I I wonder about how we would weight them to make sense so it won't feel arbitrary. Just something for us to think about, right? Like we aren't deciding that tonight. So think about it like how would you weight it or would you just want the study to include all the information and then we kind of look at everything holistically for each school. Okay. All right. So, our next meeting we're going to look at now this shortened list and then hopefully finalize the list and what we're going
121to do with it after it in terms of charging the staff with the school closure study. Okay. Is that yes? No. What we're thinking about next steps. Okay. So, are we okay? Ending this work session. >> Go ahead, Meredith. I'm giving you guys speak now. >> I have one tiny point. >> Okay. >> So, on number three, the feasibility of building on site while students remain enrolled. I just want to point out and note that we need to reflect the fact that FPG cannot be rebuilt on site, but our plan as currently articulated is to rebuild it on a site nearby. So, I don't want to ding them for not being able to rebuild on their site because we already have a plan to rebuild on a different site. >> So, do you want to
122>> Does that Does that make sense? >> No, no, no. It does make sense, right? cuz that was never. But >> we have three schools in this. >> We don't have we don't we don't know how many schools we have in it. George, >> well, how can we do criteria if we don't know how many schools are been involved? >> I thought we were back to three schools. We had voted on the bond. We've settled that. Unfortunately, that's not where the board >> we're doing criteria on something we didn't agree to look at. >> That doesn't make any sense to me. >> I think number three is in there only because of the suggestion that we include the bond schools. If the bond if the if the list were the original three, number three wouldn't
123be in. >> I thought we made clear. >> And I think because >> No, we didn't. We're not voting. >> We're not voting. We didn't vote last time either. We did a pulse check. >> I know that. >> So, so right now we have three schools being replaced. >> Isn't that where we left it? >> Right now, we have three schools that are in our bond plan. We have no we we don't know how we we are un we have not settled until we task the staff on whether it's going to be three schools or five schools or which schools or whatever. That's part of our task under the statute. And so obviously board members will continue to think on this and then once we develop the criteria then we will discuss what that's going
124to look like and then what we're going to task the staff with in terms of the school closure plan. So are we okay ending our work session today? Um, I don't know. Do you guys >> I would suggest we end Let's hear from our public. >> Yeah. >> Do do board members just want to do a quick stretch break? I know. I know some of you might use the bathroom really quick. >> You want to Okay, I know you guys are waiting. They want to be able to sit through every comment. Can we just I just want them to go use the bathroom and come back. >> I'm going to sit here. Okay. Okay, thank you everyone. All right, so at this point in our agenda, we're going to have public comments for the work
125session item. Speakers will have up to two minutes for their comments as displayed on the clock in front of Miss Feders. Um, when you're recognized, please come forward, state your name, and if you are speaking for organization, please identify the name of the organization. We'll start with recognizing any teacher organization, school improvement teams, or student groups, followed by anyone who has signed up in advance. And finally, any other persons wishing to make a comment. And I'm going to read the statement again. Additionally, tonight we're welcoming our families and guests who prefer to speak Spanish or Mandarin. We're pleased to offer Spanish and Mandarin interpretation services. Interpretation will be provided consecutively, meaning we will hear a s hear a sentence in one language and the interpreters will repeat it in English. As a result, we will
126double the time limit for those speakers to four minutes. We kindly request that all speakers speak clearly and in a moderate pace to allow the interpreters to accurately convey all information to the board and to our guests in the audience. So starting with any teacher organization, school improvement team or student groups and I see Mr. Link is standing at the podium. Thank you >> Madam Chair. Again, um given the late hour and the number of people here, I would like to once again request that we allow the public to speak first. Um I will be here to the bitter end. Um and I'm happy to provide our organization's thoughts at that time. Thank you. >> Thank you so much, Mr. Link. Um, and I don't see any other organizations stepping forward. So, we will start
127and Miss Holloway will help me with this. I'd appreciate it. So, we've got your names are going to appear up there. Um, and she's going to call maybe one or two names as well. Okay. And so, Calvin, I'm I'm not going to I'm so sorry. I'm not going to get your last name. I'm so sorry. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, wait. Um, thank you. My name is Calvin. Uh, my kid is a kindergarter in the Mandarin dual language program at Glenwood. Um, love the educators, the staff, and the school leadership there. Um, the Mandarin dual language program is a profoundly important one. uh not just because it allows my kid to communicate with his family, but also because it allows him to be proud of who he is in a time when we have
128politicians and other national figures saying that Asians don't belong in the United States. Um and of course we all remember um what happened during COVID and the surge in anti-Asian uh violence during that period. Um but the dual language program isn't just about um heritage speakers. It's a program for everyone. Um, and it cultivates the value of learning about other people's cultures. That's why I think it's also so important that it goes together with the world language program. Uh, having the two programs together extends that ethos to the whole community. Um, and it's really greater than the sum of its parts. Um, I know uh, Madame Chair, you said that all the programs are going to continue, but those of those of us that are in the Glenwood community really want the programs to continue.
129uh together to not be split up um because uh we feel like we belong together. Thank you. >> Thank you, Benjamin. >> Wow. >> Benjamin's still here. >> H Sarah Cedarberg. Members of the board, thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. Uh, after 25 years away, I moved my family back to Chapel Hill last summer. Largely, we felt confident doing that because of the strength and reputation of Chapel Hill Carro Public Schools. We were thrilled when our daughter was accepted to Glenwood's Mandarin dual language program. In other cities where we've lived, we couldn't access dual language programs because demand exceeded supply. A public school Mandarin dual language program is rare. A Mandarin program paired with a steam magnet is exceptionally rare and strategically important to the district. Programs like this are typically found in
130much larger districts. Having one here reflects Chapel Hill's academic ambition and makes our commitment to global learning tangible. When I attended Glenwood back in 1991, uh it was still a traditional neighborhood school. The dual language steam magnet was added deliberately to attract families and strengthen enrollment. And it's working. Glenwood is operating at over 95% capacity. families are choosing it. I understand the budget pressure and I understand that enrollment matters. During the work session, I heard that the point repeatedly that buildings are long-term decisions while programming can change. I understand that perspective, but programs like the dual mandarin the Mandarin dual language program take years to build, years to staff well, and years to earn community trust. Once disrupted, they are not easily reassembled. Strong programs become just as structural to a district's long-term health as
131the buildings that house them. What I have not seen is a clear plan showing how the Mandarin dual language and steam programs would remain intact if if Glenwood closes. Programming and capital planning must be considered together so that we can understand the trade-offs. I don't want to mispronounce the next name. Hi, Mark Shen, a father of a kindergartener and a fourth grader and a 25-y year educator. Thanks for the time to speak. Uh, so we understand the problems, right? We have declining enrollment uh therefore declining revenue and uh you you know the solution is to cut costs. But I think that at a time of declining enrollment, the last thing we want to cut are the schools and the programs that are actually driving enrollment and driving revenue. We've all seen the data that FPG
132and Glenwood are at 96% capacity and utilization. That's not a coincidence that the dual language programs and in Glenwood's case, the Steam program are the highest enrollment. People move here for those reasons. And I think that if we basically eliminate some of the schools that is driving the enrollment, it's just going to exacerbate the problem that we have now because people will just leave the district because it's not possible to relocate all 500 students who get Spanish every single day or every all 400 kids who at Glenwood who get Mandarin every day spread across the district unless you want to hire Spanish speaking uh teachers and Mandarin speaking teachers at every school in the district. The other thing that I just want to point out and I just want to ask the school board and
133leave you with this question. If we close schools today and look how many people came out to show for their community, I worry what's going to happen is that more people are going to leave the district. And then a few years from now, after we've closed these schools, you're going to be stuck with the same problem of having to cut costs and close more schools and just kicking the can down the road. I think what we should be talking about is how do we drive revenue and value to our school district and go maybe go to Woods charter and go to the friend school and figure out what are they doing that we could be doing here so that our families don't leave and exacerbate the problem that we have today. So, thank you very
134MUCH >> after Audrey Maria Palmer. >> Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. I'm the mother of two in Chapel Hill School District at Glenwood. I'm from North Carolina and attended public schools in Winston Salem and Wataga. Even in these strong districts, Chapel Hill Car is recognized as the best. It's been a leader since I can remember, decades at least. And at this time, our district is facing very difficult decisions. Decisions that call for leadership grounded in clarity, compassion, and innovation. Closing two schools may be unavoidable. This isn't about two schools. It isn't even about five. It's about the nine that our children will fill. Even with declining birth rates, we can attract families from surrounding areas and compete with private and charter through strong schools and innovative programs, a key to stabilizing enrollment.
135Instead of centering the conversation on closing two schools, we need a broader forward-looking strategy that secures the district's long-term financial health, attracts and retains families, and results in nine excellent schools that our children will go to. Our community would respond positively to a comprehensive plan that preserves and strengthens what works. We've all heard we tried to get in the dual language, 15th on the weight list. These families often leave for charter or private. Which of our schools have EC programs where students thrive in neuroaffirming environments and foster their value and belonging? Let's keep that and grow it. As concerns rise about meeting the needs of boys in classrooms, imagine expanding the Steam program to offer project-based learning, prioritizing hand-on experiences, movement, and curiosity with minimum screen time. Families would flock. This moment calls on the
136whole community. It isn't about two schools. It's about the entire district and the path to nine excellent elementary schools. And this will affect us all. hard decisions. Okay, >> before you go, Maria, who's after Maria? So, they can go ahead and come up, please. >> Okay, Ann's next. Thank you. Ready? >> I'm Maria Palmer. I'm running for county commissioner for district 1 and I'm here to pledge my support to the school system. If elected, I will help you keep all our schools open. I helped write the grants that brought dual language to Chapel Hill Carbborough and I think we need to expand those programs. I also know that we can offer a universal preschool and those parents are paying a an average of $15,000 a year. If that money came into our schools and we
137can refurbish, if we have enrollment um 25% capacity, what parent here would not want to have the same preschool in the same elementary that their kids attend? And that would bring revenue. The money is there. The Chamber of Commerce has a goal of hundreds of new daycare spaces. We can provide them in our schools and bring revenue. Carolina is adding 5,000 students in the next 10 years. The faculty and staff serving those students will bring families. If we get them when they are little, they will stay in our schools rather than go to Montesauri and go to a charter school or private school. Our schools are jewels. If we sell them, yes, it's $10 million. Where are we going to find for $10 million land to bring new schools when our density increases, which our
138towns have pledged to do, both Carver and Chapel Hill? Where are we going to find the land to bring to build new schools? We won't. So please, please, I know you have gone down the road a ways and that you guys have done a lot of work, but we need leadership that doesn't look at just look at the numbers and what is, but looks ahead at what can be. Thank you. Dr. Ann is going to be Becky Zornick. >> Hi. Uh my name is Anne Pitzello. I'm the parent of a CHCCS student. Um and I'm also a volunteer with our local public schools strong. Um and I'm speaking on on behalf of them tonight. Um, I agree that given our current district enrollment and financial situation, we do need to reduce the number of elementary
139schools and act on that plan quickly. I strongly encourage the board to use a short list of quantifiable evaluation criteria and a datadriven process in order to make the decision that will be the best for the whole school district, the district as a whole. And I think that's something that all of us in the in the um room here should be able to get behind is something that's the best for the whole district. The evaluation criteria should be chosen to determine the most financially strategic uh solution for the entire school district. Fortunately, we do have quantitative data that the school district staff have collected and also from the Walpert report that can be used in the decision making process to make that decision quickly. We should not make this decision based on the desires of
140particular neighborhoods or the loudest voices in the room. There are many parents who cannot be here today for many reasons. That's why a rigorous data-driven process is so important. The data speaks for the families who aren't represented here today. It helps us to decide what will be best for the district as a whole and for all the families within it, especially for those who often have the least voice in the decision-making process. I also want to thank um Superintendent Trice um for educating the CHCCS school community on um the issues at play and why the school closing is necessary. Um I found it very um helpful and informative during this process. Ultimately, I do believe we're going to come out of these changes with a stronger school district that provides the absolute best education we
141can for all students with the resources that we have. And I think that includes some of our special programs that we have that make our school district um so good. Thank you. >> Kylie Johnson is next. >> Good evening board members. I am Becky Zornick and I am a parent of two Estas Hills Elementary uh students and over the next several minutes you'll be hearing from many Estes Hills parents and we're united by two things. One, we are proud of Chapel Hill Carrboro City Schools and we are concerned about its future. We respect how difficult this these decisions are. We know school closures are painful and we know you are balancing real financial pressures and we are grateful for the time and care you put into this work. Two years ago, the district completed a
142rigorous consultant supported data-driven facilities plan with clear criteria, board approval, and voter support. and the community move forward in good faith. Our request tonight is simple. Adhere to the plan you made and establish similarly datadriven fiscally sound criteria in your decisions on the school closure. We also want to acknowledge something Dr. Trice raised that in if the district does not focus solely on facilities, there may be ways to buy time by examining singletons. These are positions such as school nurses, social workers, and certain specialized teachers. In many districts across North Carolina, those roles are shared across three or four schools. These are our nurses, our counselors, our resource officers, they are our friends, they are neighbors, and there are children's trusted adults. If staffing configurations are part of the financial conversation, then that analysis again
143should be transparent, datadriven, and applied consistently across all schools, just as facilities criteria should be. We are not asking for special considerations or treatment. We are asking for consistency, stability, and responsible governance. We urge the board to honor your process and protect our community's trust in you. >> Daniel head will be after Kylie. >> Good evening. I'm Kylie Johnson. I'm the parent of a first grader at Estie's Hills Elementary. I'm also alumni of Frank Porter Graham, Colulrath and Chapel Hill High School. And I'm so proud to stand in this room with all of you who stay up till 10 o'clock at night and fight for the kids that we all care about and who are near and dear to our heart. So I mean that as a broad community. I'm so proud to be here
144with each of you. So simply put, we do not think it's good for the district or for the board to start over on the discussion from a few summers ago around the future of SDS Hills Elementary. But if we must, we understand this to be a fiscal and operational challenge and one that requires us to disconnect the heartbreaking idea of closing a beloved elementary school from the business decision that has to be made. But in this case, we believe that the facts are aligned with our hearts. The district has already completed the data gathering, the modeling, the comparative analysis. The work led to a clear conclusion that investing in a new facility at Estie's Hills Elementary site is financially and operationally sound and has a positive impact on the district as a whole, all of
145us together. Reopening that analysis now introduces new costs, wastes large investments in previous analyses and delays progress that impacts all of our kids. These are material impacts in addition to the deep emotional strain that we can all hear in my voice um on a community that just underwent this process. I urge the board to discontinue considering Estie's Hills as a part of the closures. >> Daniel is last name I cannot pronounce. >> Hi, good evening. Uh my name is Daniel Head. I'm a parent at Est Hills Elementary and I'm also a substitute teacher for both CHCCS and Orange County schools. Um I'm here to talk about the real cost of the delays that we are discussing by reopening and examining more and more criteria. Closing two elementary schools can save about $4 million each year
146and avoid up to $15 million in major repairs. Continued delays increase the risk. And as we talked more tonight about another reduction in force with nurses and student support staff among the first to go. And Dr. you mentioned tonight if we don't focus on facilities. The only way to buy time is focusing on a reduction in force. They're not abstract numbers. Those are the people our children depend on. Time is money and time is also uncertainty. The board has said it wants to move quickly with decisions this spring closing schools by 2027. And with that timeline, it is critical to follow the professional guidance already provided by your district staff. Staff has done the work. Expanding the analysis now risks higher costs, longer timelines, and more instability. Delay costs money. Confusion costs our trust and
147rushed mistakes will cost both. We feel the responsible path is to follow the plan that you already approved and move forward. We urge the board to honor that plan to avoid unnecessary harm to our community. Thank you. >> Good evening. Um thank you to the board for your service. My name is Elizabeth Pisaka. Uh I have a kindergartener at Estess Hills. Um, as a former teacher and district administrator, I know how important stable aligned leadership is, especially now. This board made the wise, unanimous decision to hire Dr. Trice, providing continuity and avoiding an expensive search. Dr. Trice's thoughtful approach to community engagement gave me confidence in his process for closing schools, a process that was grounded in the board's approved bond plan. Dr. Tric's closure timeline is essential to retain as many of our district's
148amazing staff and teachers as possible. In fact, we heard tonight that 50 to 80 positions are at risk. These are the people that make our district great. Should the board reopen the debate about rebuilding and require the county to reapprove the bond plan, it will inevitably extend the timeline and puts our district's future sustainability at serious risk. We all want to see Dr. Trice and his administration succeed, and he and his team need your continued support. Alignment between the board and the administration protects staff morale, strengthens enrollment, and signals stability to the community. I urge the board to not reopen the bond approval plan so that they can adhere to Dr. Trice's thoughtful timeline in order to retain as many of our teachers and staff as possible. Thank you. Hi, I'm uh Justin Klene. Uh
149I have a daughter who will be entering the district uh next year. Uh first I just wanted to thank um the board for your public service. I'm sure there's other more exciting things we could be doing at this time, but um I really appreciate it. Um board members, please stand behind the datadriven long-term facilities planning commission from Walpert that has been trusted up until this point. This report drove the planned key projects announced ahead of the 2024 bond that named Carbaro SDS and FPG for rebuild. It was de developed in the context of declining enrollment, which is not new information and has been well documented since 2019. Operating budget pressure is real, but it's not a reason to blow up capital commitments voters approved to build safe, modern schools. I'm asking the board tonight to
150continue with the plan that you made that we the public have supported and that the district administration has already begun to act on. Please trust the rigorous process that brought us to this point and move forward with plans to rebuild Carbo, FPG and STS. Thank you. Good evening board. My name is Feliz Ready and I am a district parent. Estus Hills sits directly adjacent to Phillips Middle School. This is not just geography. It is strategic infrastructure. Collocation allows for shared systems, coordinated traffic flow, aligned safety planning, and long-term efficiencies in maintenance and utilities. These advantages were studied during the bond process as part of long range facilities planning. If this is a fiscal and operational decision, then strategic assets like this should matter. Returning to the drawing board risks disregarding efficiencies already analyzed and incorporated
151into the adopted plan. The work has been done. The criteria were set. I urge you to honor the plan and move forward with rebuilding Estus Hills in its optimal central location adjacent to Phillips Middle School. Thank you, >> John Wallace. >> Thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening. My name is John Wallace and my two daughters are Estus are students at Estess Hills. We're all here tonight because we care. We care about our schools, this district, and our community. This district is a major reason people chose to live here. We understand the budget shortfalls, the declining enrollment, and recognize the consequences of stagnant growth in our district over the years. But our community has elected town officials that adopted the complete community strategy, focused on more connected communities, affordable housing, and strategic growth.
152We see the infrastructure improvements and growth along Estus Drive and in the MLK and 15501 corridors and much more is laid out in the transportation and future land use plans at the university level. The Carolina North development will include workforce housing and university staff for sorry will include workforce housing for university staff and their families. Like our town officials, we elected you because you represent the values of our community. This district must align with improvements with these major investments by the town and the university. It's a fiscally responsible decision now and for our future. We ask the board to engage in more intergovernmental collaboration and we urge the board not to close Estus Hills Elementary, which sits centrally located within those plans. Such closure would signal siloed governance, lack of coordination, and misalignment with public
153priorities. Thank you. >> Good evening. Uh, thank you for the opportunity to be here. I'm Brian Drisco, a proud parent to two current and hopefully one future Estus Hills students. Our district has amazing schools thanks to the exceptional teachers and staff who foster communities in which our kids learn and grow. Closing even one of these schools, much less two, is agonizing. As you make these excruciating decisions, please minimize disruption to students, teachers, and staff. The prior bond analysis highlighted the ability to rebuild on the Estus Hill site without relocating students into a swing space. The fact that Estus is underenrolled would also mean the ability to welcome additional students and teachers from the district now as a new stu state-of-the-art school is designed and built. Avoiding relocation reduces transition costs and shortens timelines for modernizing
154facilities as well as minimizing the significant loss of staff across the district that has been discussed tonight as a consequence of delaying these difficult decisions. It saves the district money by allowing other buildings to be taken offline faster. I urge the board to make decisions that help build new, bigger, stronger school communities while mitigating disruption as much as possible. Rebuilding Estus Hills will help the district achieve the goal of minimizing disruptions while addressing our financial shortfalls. Thank you. >> Hello. Uh my name is Harsha Ganga and we're recent transplants here from Boulder, Colorado. Uh we do miss Boulder, but seeing the passion in this room, I'm heartened that we made the right choice moving to North Carolina and Chapel Hill. Uh when we moved here, we did a lot of research on schools and looking
155at a number of schools and for all the reasons mentioned here, we settled on Esther and Phillips as the schools for our two daughters uh who go to the Esther Silent and Phillips schools. Now um and um I'm going to go off a little off script here. I want to thank you all for doing this. So I don't know how you sit there and do this in public. This is amazing work. I mean I'd rather be watching Bridget in second season now than sitting here but so thank you for that. This may be an unpopular opinion but I have to say tough decisions have to be made. You can't run out of the clock here. You have to rip the band-aid off and get the decision done and move us help us move forward. And
156that's why I put on this unity t-shirt because I want us to thrive as a community. And the longer you delay, you're ripping the community apart and it's not helping us. And I drive around the town, I see all these signs about we're all in this together, you know, leave your leaves on the floor. And is that just branding? Do you guys mean that? We need to do this. We need to do this to keep the community going. So I I would say and school closures are hard. It's not I mean, I'm making fun of this. It's it's a tough decision to make and it's not an easy decision, but let's keep grounded on on financial principles, make some tough choices and keep the ball moving. I think thank you for your work. God bless
157America. And I know this is a tough time to say this, but a lot going on in the world, but I still think this is the greatest country in the world. That's a tough act to follow. Uh, hi, my name is Asha. I'm a parent at Estes Hills. So, over the past, you know, 10, 15 minutes, you've heard from several of us. We're all parents with different stories, uh, different perspective, different priorities, but I think our message has been pretty consistent. Um, we're proud of this district. We believe in its teachers. We believe in its staff, and we want this district to remain strong for the next generation of students. I think we can all agree many families in this community, not just at Estes Hills, uh went through a difficult emotional process to understand
158and accept the facilities plan that was adopted. I want to underscore that it really was emotional and this has been emotional tonight, too. Um but you know, we did that because we trusted this board and this district. We placed our trust in you. Reopening those decisions now risks reopening that uncertainty, weakening stability, uh and undermining that trust that's already been built. You know, this is not about, I think, one school versus another. I hate it when it sort of takes on that kind of character. Um, every school is in in this district is filled with dedicated educators and remarkable children. And this is about, I think, honoring the process that we went through using public resources wisely um and leading with consistency. You know, we respectfully ask you to stand behind your prior commitments. Uh,
159follow the plan you approved and move forward with rebuilding Est's Hills. And we urge the board to honor that process. And I I mean, if I may, I I'm hoping this anecdote or sort of analogy will land because it often seems like 50% of the people in this district work in healthcare. But, you know, if you have a patient, they're sick, they come in, um the diagnosis is unclear, what do you do? You get data. You order tests, you order labs. I think over time that data coaleses, you draw conclusions. But there does reach a point where more data actually doesn't help. One more scan, one more lab essay, maybe we'll send it out to the Mayo Clinic. There actually reaches a point where it starts to hurt you because that patient all that while
160has been getting sicker. And what I would hate to see with this district, which is a crown jewel in North Carolina, is for it to go from serious condition, where I think we are now, to critical condition. Good evening. My name is Steve Ephford. I'm the PE teacher at Ephesus Elementary. I sent you all a letter about three or four weeks ago. I hope you had a chance to read it. Just how much I love Ephesus, how much I love that community. So, I hope you had a chance to read that. Um, a comment's been made several times in the board meetings the past several times about um we're closing buildings, but we're not closing schools. And from a 10,000 foot perspective, I do agree with that somewhat because great educators are going to be
161great educators wherever they go. So I do agree with that. Uh where I would push back against that and give them more of a boots on the ground or shoes in the hallway approach. Um is that there's absolutely an impact when you break apart a family, when you break apart a community and and splinter them out and send them other places. Uh you absolutely do have an impact and any one of us in our building would be happy to teach any single student from any single area. But if you send us out other places, there's absolutely uh a breaking apart of a family and breaking apart of systems that have been put into place to support all students. Uh to take it a step further, singletons have been mentioned here. I'm a singleton in my
162building. There's one PE teacher in every single elementary school in our district. So if our school closes, honestly have no idea what would happen to my position. Honestly, I don't know what would happen if my school stays open. Nothing is assured for me at this point. Uh, so I stand here with with a lot of insecurity and not knowing what's going to happen to me and a lot of uncertainty for other folks in our building and all the other buildings of all these other schools. So I ask that you please consider that when you say something um so general as we're not closing schools, we're merely closing buildings. Um, as a board, you hold us as staff to incredibly high standards, as you absolutely should, and we appreciate that. Um, but as a community, we
163need to hold you all to high standards as well. And thank you for the discussion tonight. Um, I ask I plead with you to please, please put any any preconceived notions you had aside and consider the information that's in front of you tonight and all the information that's been sent to you from our school, from our PTA. Um, and thoroughly consider that with integrity, with honesty, with transparency because this is this is our livelihoods. It's also our life. Thank you. Good evening the um board. I will read my message in Spanish and then I will read it in English. Foreign City School. Gracias. Thank you for allowing us time to share. We hope you were able to experience a little of the sabor of La Familia as our student welcome to this evening board meeting.
164This joy is what our full dual language school embodies as we develop all students in our school to be bilingual by leader and critical conscious. As the speakers come up to address the board this evening, please know that we have been intentional intentionally with what they are presenting as we understand that a difficult decision will require the board times and energy and do not want to slow down your process. We are here because it's not clear what we are not talking about problems means. So our main request is that the board confirm their commitment to keeping the full school Spanish and English dual language program intact at this provide unique and valuable opportunities and draws families to Chapo Hill Carbotto City Schools. Indeed, if you see fit, we will be honored to serve as a
165model magnet school program from the district. Thank you. Hi, I'm Mary Beth Prior. I'm a mom of two children in the district and I will be interpreting some for my um child. >> Good evening members of the school board community and Dr. in Frankf Will Prier and this is my mom. I'm in second grade at Frank Porter Graham Belingu FBGB. for English. reasons. I learn two languages, play with friends who speak different languages, and can help people who don't speak English. At FBGB, the teachers, kids, and parents are truly una familia. Will and I are here to strongly support maintaining the FBGB lingua program. Fully bilingual schools don't just teach language. They shape how children think and connect. Students build cognitive skills as well as empathy, confidence, and the ability to navigate a diverse world.
166What you just heard from Will is not theory. It's lived experience. At my school, you don't just learn science and math. You learn other languages and about different cultures and that brings people together. FBG is a place where culture is celebrated across the entire school. It's a joyful place where children sing along to Super Bowl lyrics. The only thing more powerful than hate is love dance and Zumba classa and enthusiastically compete in football or soccer games at Copa Mundial. >> Fully bilingual schools like FPGB prepare students to be thoughtful, compassionate, and culturally aware citizens. FPGB is a model of equity and inclusion for our Chapel Burough community. Preserving FPGB's fully bilingual program doesn't just protect a program. It protects the values this district and our community stand for, cherish, and have committed to. >> Thank
167you everyone. >> You want to say it again? >> Yeah. >> All right. Say it again. Brianos, together we shine. Thank you. >> All right. Gracias, ail. My name is Heather Lindenman. I am an FPG parent. Um, and thank you to um the board this evening. Thank you also to um all of my neighbors and community members who are out. Um when our district kids and families walk into FPG um we walk into an alternative world. The social hierarchies of America um are no longer the social structure. In its place you have friendships that might begin in Spanish, turn to soccer and lead to sharing books and family stories. No one can question that FPG as a program is thriving. But to be what it is, FPG cannot be a program attached to another school,
168split up, or part of a different school community. To maintain its unique dual language reality, it needs its own building and school community. said differently. I understand the board and district um support the dual language program and the other um very important Mandarin dual language program, but without a designated building and campus of its own, FPG's dual language education as we know it would not exist. FPG is a place where the default is comfort in the discomfort of trying something new. For really learning a new language, whether it's English, Spanish, to work, you need to know it's safe everywhere and that everyone in the building understands you. This is possible at FPG. FPG is a vibrant and thriving community because people are drawn to the hope that we can all learn from each other in
169the deepest way made possible by sharing two common languages. Thank you. Oh, hi everyone. My name is Anna Rosario. I'm an FPGB parent and a former educator in the district. I've been listening closely to this process and tonight I want to share a small moment that helped me understand why this conversation matters beyond buildings and numbers. A few days ago, I was working with a group of children. I noticed several of them ch uh se several of the children speaking Spanish to their families. So I approached them in Spanish. One child who attends a Spanish immersion program responded immediately and excitedly in Spanish. There was pride in his voice. No hesitation. Then I spoke in Spanish to the another child. I knew she was a native Spanish speaker as well. She looked at me and
170said, "I speak English." That moment stayed with me. While while one child felt felt comfortable and affirmed responding in his heritage language, the other one seemed more distant and disconnected from hers. I've seen this at home, too. For a long time, my own son didn't feel connected to his Dominican heritage. After three years at FPG, something changed. His pride showed up quietly and naturally. I believe that happened because he was in an environment where his background and culture are part of everyday life and genuinely celebrated. So as you think about the future of this district, I ask the pride and belonging be treated as essential outcomes, not side effects. We need to protect the integrity of what creates that sense of connection. A schools where children feel seen and connected don't just feel good. They
171keep families engaged and they build a district where pe where people want to be part of. So instead of as starting with which school should we close, I believe we should be asking what district are we envisioning for our kids' future. Thank you very much. Good evening board. My name is Roberto Blanco and I'm a parent of two children at Frank Porter Graham Elementary School. I've also worked with first and second generation Latino immigrants, both adults and children, for many years in the field of mental health, including at UNC Eluturo and with developmental disabilities as a child and adolescent psychiatrist. I want to thank you for listening to all of the schools in our district and for your role in envisioning a dynamic, academically rigorous and equitable school system in Chapel Hill and Carbro. These
172are not easy conversations or decisions and we appreciate you working through this process to make a better school system in Dr. Trice's vision. I believe that we can. As a son of a Mexican immigrant who came to this country for educational opportunity, I am asking in this moment of vulnerability for many Spanish-sp speakaking families that you keep the FPG schoolwide program intact. In addition, I ask that you prioritize maintaining the community connection of some of the most marginalized families throughout the district by maintaining the dual language program at FPG. I am proud to have children at FPG. As a multicultural family, my children have been given a huge gift. The ability to communicate with their grandfather, aunts, uncles, and cousins in their native language. They also have been able to explore cultural and aspects of
173their own identity and that of others in a safe and nurturing fa place. This is something that has made them confident students and leaders in their spheres. And I know that has also made a huge difference in the lives of the other Latino students who are going through or have gone through the program. Dual language education is not just beneficial, however, for those native Spanish speakers. The focus on social emotional learning helps children build empathy for others and for themselves. Lessons on different countries and subcultures allow them to understand that people can be different and that everyone in this world has value. FPG molds its students into kind and conscientious American and global citizens at a time when kindness is sorely needed. Thank you. Hi there, my name is Mark Hoopand. Uh I have two
174kids enrolled in CHCCS uh specifically because of FPG. Uh I had a concern and question about the implementation of the 2024 bond referendum. Um on August uh August 15, 2024, prior to the election and after a lot of research, the Walpert report and community feedback, the school board approved the administration's recommendation for the bond project, uh which included building a new site for the FPG dual language program. I personally met with uh three of you on the board, attended community meetings, and participated in many conversations with voters all over the town about the bond measure heading into election day. And and as an aside, I have a a newsletter that I provide over a couple hundred residents of Chapel Hill. Um because the bond is a significant amount of money, voters relied heavily on the
175board's commitment. Voters relied heavily on the board's commitment when casting their ballots for that bond. And there was an awareness at the time of declining enrollment as well, right? Maybe not as extreme as it is now, but there was an awareness of declining enrollment. Despite that, we voted for the bond as voters. In your last meeting, there was doubt cast on the future of that bond, uh whether there was enough money, uh what facility you might close, etc., etc. I would ask the board to reiterate its commitment to the voters that you will work to deliver on the promises made as part of this bond that we voted for and approved. I understand this isn't exact science. There are a lot of moving parts, but we as voters are relying on you to work toward
176making the board's commitments to the voters a reality. Uh, that being said, I realize some community members here have concerns about whether closing FPG's facility now makes sense if you're going to meet that commitment and rebuild that facility 5 years down the road. But, um, I think others are going to speak on that topic. Thank you. Hi, thank you again for letting us speak. My name is Kiana and like Roberto, my colleague, I'm a child adolescent psychiatrist. But that's not my important job. My real job is that I'm a mom, a mom of four kids, one that's currently at FPG and three that are alumni. And I want to tell you how important it is for me to look around and see the diversity in the hallways and in the school community. for an African-American
177female and a parent in Chapel Hill schools where sometimes we are under reppresented. It means a lot to me and I purposely picked this school in this part of the district so that my little brown children when they go to school they see diversity. Not only when it's around them and the color of their skin, but it's the languages, it's the culture, it's the richness, it's knowing that diversity isn't a checklist. It's something that happens with our programs for Hispanic Heritage Month, for Black History Month. you name it, every month has a month and our school celebrates that equally because it's important. So, I also thought I would tell you having three alumni children who have continued to be bilingual and biiterate because of FPG. I want you to hear from an alumni tonight about
178what that course has meant and he's waited all night long. So, I'm going to let Katon talk now. Uh, good evening. My name is Katon and I'm a former student of Frank Porter Graham Elementary. I'm here today because FPG is the only school in our district that is truly bilingual. It's not just a school that has a language program. Being bilingual is a whole identity. It's a mission for every student every day. There's a huge difference between take just taking a language class and actually living in that language. On other programs, you might just practice vocabulary. But FPG, we use Spanish to solve math problems, run science experiments, and learn about history. This immersion model is what it makes FPG so special and unique. It helped me become better, better thinker, and gave me a
179level of fluency that you just can't get anywhere else. FPG is the only place where every single craft room is built on connecting different cultures. As a former student, I can tell you the FPG changed my life more than any other school I've been to. It taught me how to connect with people from all different backgrounds. It gave me a way to see the world that I wouldn't have found anywhere else. Thank you, Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Okay. Um, good evening everybody. Thank you for allowing me the space to talk. Um, I have students also at FP and I also work at FPG and I appreciate an opportunity to do both things there. Um, I was very also surprised when my students when they visit Mexico from side of my family and then they also went
180to Guatemala to visit that that side of the family. Uh what the family uh found out when they were in those countries is that their Spanish was uh perfect and they did not had any any problems communicating with their fam with their families in those countries. My oldest son moved back to Mexico and he's able to be to work uh being bilingual in Mexico. And this is all because of the opportunity that he learned a second language at FBG. And as far as being employed in the cafeteria, we serve around 395 students every day. And it feels really good when they walk through the line and they said, "Hello, how are you?" you or thank you when they're grabbing their food. They know that I don't speak English, but they are able to communicate to
181me in Spanish. I really would like to take you into consideration and not closing F and not closing FPG. I feel very comfortable at that school and I can see that my daughter who still attends FPE will be will have a better future just like her siblings. >> Thank you so much for listening. Good evening everybody. Um I really I feel like you've heard uh so much that I you know I don't want to repeat but I really want to reiterate um before I before I start uh thank you. I recognize after sitting through this meeting that this is not easy. This is difficult. These are difficult decisions and um you know I I we appreciate the work that that you're all doing to to make these important decisions. Um I came uh I'm I'm
182a parent of a third grader who you might have seen out there singing and dancing as as you were coming in. Uh she's been at FPG since uh prek. Uh we were actually she started prek at a at another school. She was weight listed and the second day was her first day at uh FPG. and we've been there. You know, again, it's it's just been an amazing experience. Um, and you know, when we we heard people talking about uh diminishing um enrollment, I should just say, you know, I feel like my family is that story. We um I work mainly remotely and travel. Uh my daughter's mom uh works in Durham. We've many times thought about, you know, living somewhere cheaper, frankly, and and saving some money, but we've committed to staying here um for
183FPG for this school district. And I know there I know we're not the only ones, and so I I hope people take that into account. Um this full FPG bilingual program is so important. I mean, just you you've heard about it, but I just don't think you can have this program where it's just a Spanish class or where it's just a subset of one school. it really needs to be uh uh a program that's in in the building. And so I I hear you talking about buildings and not programs. Um and I guess it's a maybe it's a question. I don't I don't see how we can keep this program without it having a building. Um and hope that um we also add uh to the criteria that that that we were talking about, you
184know, the current enrollment. I think we have, you know, full or near full. I'm sure there's people that want to want to get in. And so, you know, closing FPG and then splitting people up to go to multiple dual language programs would would be very difficult. So, thank you. >> Good evening. I'm Guoseda, parent of a fourth grader at FPG. So, let me give you I'm hoping that I'm going to give you some facts with my story. I'm going to open my heart and and let you know a little bit of my story. Um, uh, before COVID, my son was diagnosed with a severe and rare speech disorder. We were living in Mexico City then. And when COVID hit, uh, my wife and I, uh, decided that none of the schools, private or public, in
185Mexico, uh, was going to be able to take care of my kid and, um, take care of my kid academically wise. So, we decided to, uh, find the best bilingual school, private or public, in the world, uh, to bring our kid to have him educated. So um I'm a head hunter, an executive research consultant and I dedicated one year doing a research on which one which was the school in the whole world. I looked at Australia, England, Spain, um Argentina, uh like it was like 15 countries and uh we arrived at the conclusion that FPG was the right school for my kid. Um we did background checks. I even spoke with Jill Lasera that used to take one of those seats some years ago. um uh with an an an ex SLP that used to
186work at the school um and um even an a family from uh Chile that had a kid in in in school. So what I'm trying to say is FPG has a reputation global globally and I'm train trained to find rare gems hidden. So it is just a matter of promoting more the school and not killing what brings you the enrollment, right? Thank you. Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the board. I'm Alan Ferry. I'm the parent of a former FPG student. My son Jaden went there from kindergarten to fifth grade. He's in seventh grade now. I had the opportunity to serve on the school improvement team there for six years. Uh my wife's an educator here in the district. I'm the child of two public school educators. So public education is deeply personal and valuable
187to our family. So thank you to all of you and the educators in this room for all that you do. Uh I certainly don't want to minimize the pressures that you are facing with declining enrollment, aging budgets or aging buildings, budget constraints. They're real problems and I certainly don't want to minimize that. But I'd ask you to consider that not all of our elementary schools are interchangeable. Specifically, FPG is a case where that distinction truly matters. Now, my family had options when we were looking at schools for Jaden to start both inside outside the district, but we chose FPG deliberately. We didn't do a worldwide head hunter search, but we did our research in the area because of that full school dual language model and the school's reputation. Uh we know many other families made
188a similar choice. You've heard from some today. So those students and their associated funding dollars made their way to CHCCS and FPGB FPG specifically. We're also considering it for our younger son who's about to turn three for the same reasons and after six years of firsthand experience with this amazing school and community. Uh finally just want to share a personal story. Our son's in seventh grade now doing great academically but even more he's a great person. and he's become great friends with a classmate that's got some physical challenges and he doesn't see that as strange because he learned that at FPG from 6 years in a culture where looking out for other people is normal and expected. So in closing I just ask you to see what f see FPG for what it is. It's
189not a building, not a budget line. It's a unique asset to this district that attracts families and helps shapes the kind of citizens that our community needs. It's too valuable to lose. Thank you. >> Hi. First, I want to thank you for your time and your thoughtfulness. Um, I'm Amanda Brady Lingua. Um, I started at FPGB Lingua in 2013, my first year as a teacher in the first year that it was a schoolwide dual language program. I've grown with this school and watched the program strengthen into what it is today. We are the biggest fullest school bursting with pride in students and we acknowledge that we need a new building and we desire to keep our full school program intact. We are actually creating bilingual, biliterate and culturally competent students. Because these pillars are infused
190into our everyday interactions, lessons, and curriculum, our students are able to foster double the relationships, read double the texts, participate in double the conversations, see double the perspectives, and demonstrate double the empathy. Our native Spanish speakers receive reading and writing in their native language, elevating their language and culture, propelling them into literacy quicker because there isn't a language barrier and equipping them with academic vocabulary and literacy in their native language. Then when they begin learning English, they are able to transfer the foundational reading skills from their first language into their second. This process is so incredible, it almost feels magical to watch, but it's real and it works. I know this to be true because I'm an interventionist teaching small groups of Spanish reading skills, phonics, decoding, and fluency and math as well. Two are
191native Spanish speakers. I just watched three of my own second grade native Spanish-sp speakaking students, two of which are newcomers um reach grade level benchmark scores in Spanish reading. I can't imagine our newcomer students in another school or program. They flourish here where their culture is preserved and honored and their language is spoken and taught. I see native English speakers also gain confidence in learning a second language starting in kindergarten and growing from there. Our program is unique. It is essential to the dynamic education that this district offers. I have my own children in the school as well with one who will hopefully join when he's of age. Thank you so much. >> Good evening mad chair and members of the board. My name is Enri Ariza and I'm a parent at the Chapel Hill
192Carbbor City School District. I'm here tonight because one of the schools listed for possible closures far from program Belingu is not a building to our family. It's a bridge. When my family chose to move to this district, we were looking for more than test scores or proximity. Like many multicultural families here, we were looking for a place where our children could grow bilingual, bicultural, confident, and connected. FPG offers something truly unique. A schoolwide dual language program that spans the entire elementary school experience. Not just a partial dual immersion program. There's no other school in this districts in this district that offers that continuity, depth, and commitment. And that really matters because programs like this don't just teach language. They teach listening, empathy, and belonging. They bring families together across cultures in ways that can be
193measured by enrollment numbers alone. Although the numbers tell an important story too, schools with dual language programs like FPG and other bilingual schools are among the most populars in the district with full enrollment enrollment year over year. Families are choosing these schools or private over private or charter options and they are staying. We want to increase enrollment in the district. Right. So when FP appears on a list of schools that may close, it feels like we are risking the loss of something rare and deeply impactful, not just for one community, but for the future of the district. That's why my That's what Thank you. >> Good evening, members of the board and Dr. Trice. Uh my name is Jeff Glick. I'm the father of two students at FPG. Um, I heard the board chair say
194tonight very clearly that the discussion was not about closing programs or ending programs, it was up buildings, but I haven't clearly heard the entire board commit to doing that. And I really think that this is important and it matters. Um, I want to bring up a a reason that it really matters uh that hasn't been talked about by some of the other FPG parents and that's because school the school immersion program at FPG drives enrollment and enrollment drives revenue and we really need to focus on revenue in addition to cost reduction. Um, I I recognize that a lot of the factors driving elementary school enrollment in the district are outside of the board's control, but not all of them. And one of them is to look and see where is the demand. We should be
195looking to invest there and grow there, not disrupt it or fragment it. Um so please uh as you're approaching uh this difficult decision-making process, I really ask that you consider committing as soon as possible to preserving whole school Spanish immersion that exists in its current form at FPG. Thank you for your time and thank you for your service. >> Good evening. My name is Camila Morales and I am a first grade teacher at FPGB. As you know, FPGB is a school whose majority population is Hispanic. When I first came to this country, I was lucky enough to have landed in this district. I was 12 at the time and I am forever grateful for each member of the staff that saw my potential in me and provided me with the education I needed to come
196this far. My experience as a student in this district was good, but my experience as a staff member gave me something back that I never thought I would get to experience again. The feeling of belonging. I want to restate CHCCS did everything right. I received all the support I needed to navigate the difficulties when you immigrate to a place where your language and customs are impressent in every direction you turn. Every time I walk into FPG, it brings back those memories and feelings that I once had 18 years ago. Feelings I honestly thought I would never get back because that was my reality and that reality of many others. I see myself in my FPG family and I know they understand all of me. I also know this is my this is what my colleagues
197feel because they share the same story as me. This is my family now and together we have built a school culture where each student feels seen, understood and where students that come from another country like me get the feeling of being home again. Seeing all my students of all demographics being empowered by the Spanish language, building relationship with students from all backgrounds, fostering those relationships and caring about each other with compassions are my greatest joys. This could have only been possible because of our staff and all the parents that have supported us year after year. We're not just a dual language curriculum. We are their culture as well. All of us, students, parents, and staff are an example of a strong, culturally responsible responsive community. All I ask today is to please keep our familiar
198FPGB together because we bring much more than a program to our community. We bring a unique cultural experience and a feeling of being home to everyone that is part of this familia. Gracias. Baby still here. Good evening. Thank you everyone. And I know it's late, but I actually really love hearing why everyone loves their public school. So it gives me so much hope. Um, so my name is Katie Wal and I'm a parent of two kids in the Glenwood Mandarin immersion program. I'm here first to advocate for the unique school environment at Glenwood. I've heard assurances that programs will not be affected by school closures, but it's simply not possible to close the Glenwood building without affecting the district's only dual language Mandarin program. Glenwood's model is distinctive. Not only is it the oldest school
199in the district where our incredible teachers do educate our kids about the painful history of our school's segregation so that they can learn from this history. But also today half of the students participate in Mandarin immersion while the other half receive Chinese language instruction throughout the week. And this program extends beyond classroom time. Cultural practices are woven throughout the school community. We just celebrated Lunar New Year together and teachers collaborate across immersion and world language classrooms. This is not a small program that can simply be tucked into the corner of another building where students are learning a different language. Glenwood is essentially at full enrollment and I have not seen a clear thoughtful plan for how this program would be retained at the same level of integrity, enrollment, and excellence that currently attracts families to
200the district. Glenwood students currently can continue Mandarin at Philips Middle School, which is the only middle school in the district offering Mandarin. Families choose this program because it provides sustained long-term language learning. And that's because my kids are nowhere near as um fluent as Will was in Spanish. They need a little more time. Um if Glennwood closes, what is the concrete plan to ensure those students continue to have access to a coherent K through8 Mandarin pathway and beyond? Now, for the second half of my comments, hopefully I'm not too far past a minute. I want to zoom out to ensure I have time to advocate for all nine schools that will be affected by any closures and redistricting. Since the last meeting, I've spoken with parents, teachers, the daily tarheel, and students across multiple schools.
201There have been so many creative ideas. You've heard many tonight. I hope you really take them to heart. Thank you so much. Hello. Um, I'm Briana and just like the last meeting, you all have me all shook up. Um, so I definitely agree with other people. Um, if there is any stone unturned, that means we keep all of these schools open. Let's do that. These schools are amazing. I want to go to them. Uh, let's do more of that. But if a school must be closed, we want to ensure there's a clear cost benefit because otherwise what is the point of this? Um so I wonder and this just came to me during this meeting. Um Dr. Griffin, there was something you said about the criteria should be about what schools we close, what schools
202are going to save us the most money because that is why we are doing this. If we didn't have to, we wouldn't. Um, so I think we need to think about, okay, what schools save us money regardless of how we're going to rebuild. If we're going to renovate, that can come later after we've saved money because I think it's always going to be easy to spend more money. We can make that plan anytime like that. That's the easy part. The hard part's going to be closing. I think we need to save the money because otherwise it's just too heartbreaking to lose any of these programs. Thank you. Jennifer Jennifer is gonna be Kristen Brookshshire. Hi members of the board. I'm Jennifer Hawkberg. I am a parent of a first grader at Ephesus and hopefully a
203kindergartener at Ephesus. Um, I just want to thank you for the discussion on the criteria. I think that's what we've been looking for as a community. Um, all of these schools are great. I hate that we're pitting these schools against each other when really it's for the good of the district. But the one thing that I want to talk about with Ephesus is something that we call him coochie um said is that this is about breaking up families from 10,000 ft. It's a financial decision and I know that it has to happen but I appreciate the time that you guys are taking to look at these schools and really think about it because it is taking away what people their livelihoods because you can't say that there aren't going to be reductions in staff with
204closing some schools. You can't say that it's not going to affect transportation. It's not going to affect other things. So, I really appreciate the time that you guys are taking and the care that you take with this. And it is very hard as to look at five schools. I voted for the bond. Had I known that the bond could take away another school, whether it's Ephesus or any other school, I don't know what I would have done. I would have always wanted to support schools, but I just don't think that there was a lot of transparency with that. And I think that that could be something that should be really looked at. And I think that the last thing with Ephesus, the headline if you close Ephesus is that you are going to be closing
205the school with the highest academic student growth performance. That is a title one school. So you need to think about that and that we are performing well. And it exactly what coach E said, it's about the family. It's about the parts of the whole and taking the parts away to other schools is going to take away that student performance because that is the secret sauce. So, thank you for all your time and I appreciate that this is a very hard decision. >> Dr. Kristen is Adam. >> All right. Good evening board members, Superintendent Trice. I'm also an Ephesus parent. Um, and I have two brief topics to lift up tonight after reading the matrix of considerations as posted online as and as discussed tonight. Um, the matrix includes six different rows that talk about housing
206and town planning. Um, and each of the responses to each of those criteria cites the Carolina demography presentation from December of 2025. Um within the linked slide presentation, there is a slide called key assumptions that says this is an initial model. We will update the forecast with development impacts. I understand that the district enrollment is declining and but I also believe that it's not even across the district. So I really hope that you'll double check and make sure that you have a complete forecast that accounts for development patterns and student generation rates for future housing across the district. Um, I appreciated the board member comment earlier about thinking about the geographic dist distribution of our elementary schools across the whole um, school district and zooming out and having that lens. And then lastly, I hope
207that you will consider criteria that encompasses town plans and multimodal transportation impacts. These factors received attention and discussion during the various bond project scenario um meetings and conversations, some of which included recommendations for consolidation that would have addressed the utilization challenges we're still faced with today and why we're talking about this with such urgency now. It's hard to process how those considerations can be set aside when we're now talking about school closure when before we were talking about um the prioritization of capital projects. So, thank you for your time and your consideration tonight. >> Kayla is after Adam. >> Hello. First, thank you for your service to our community. Um, I hope that my comment on criteria one can help you as you rework this draft list. Uh, criteria one as it's written is sunk
208costs. It sounds like now though criteria one will be combined with criteria two. But I just wanted to remind you to be careful when giving any weight to sunk costs. Two Nobel Prize winners in economics have said sunk costs are irrelevant to rational decision-m and the other said that sunk costs the sunk cost fallacy keeps people doing things they shouldn't. So what they're saying is it's irresponsible to continue investing time, money, or effort in something simply because you've already invested in it. I'm not as smart as Milton Freriedman um and Richard Thaylor um unless I have a Nobel Prize waiting for me at home. But I trust that they are right when they say not to make decisions based on sunk costs. Criteria one is sunk cost. So please just keep that in mind when
209you're combining it with criteria 2. Thank you. >> Nora is after Kayla. Hi, good evening and thank you for allowing us this time. I'm Kayla Waldron and I am the mother of two children at FPGB. I remember the day we found out that our first child would be attending FPG because unfortunately many of my daughter's uh preschool classmates did not were not successful. But we had that opportunity and um and then we felt both fortunate and grateful um to be able to join the FPG family. And our experience at FPG has been nothing short of remarkable. We have watched our two children, a fourth grader and a second grader, become tremendous people. They have blossomed in their language skills. We have marveled at their growth in reading and math year overyear and we have been
210captivated by the stories that they tell us about cultures and customs ones we could never share with them. FPG is committed to developing children who are prepared to be global citizens. The experience, the thoughtful experiences that are offered to the students ensure that they see the world as bigger than Chapel Hill, bigger than North Carolina, and bigger than the United States. And our investment in this program could never be at a more important time. As a result of our children's experiences and and the events planned for the families, my husband and I have also expanded our community. I grew up in Iowa, a long way from here. And it wasn't until I got out of my hometown that I realized that the world was bigger than that that town, bigger than Iowa. And it took
211me a long time to to to sort of get outside of that. My children don't have to start at that place because of FPG. I urge you to think about this program and the experiences it offers as a whole. Thank you. >> Thank you. I think I'm convinced that we need nine dual language programs in our district. Um my my name is Nora Rosenberg. Um I'm a parent of a kindergartener and a second grader at Estes Hills Elementary School. Um, but I think I want to wear the hat today of a person in the district overall rather than a particular alliance to my school. I moved to Chapel Hill because of the school system. I was told that no matter what community that I lived in that I I would have a good educational experience
212and my children would. And my first years in this district have absolutely lived up to that. I've had incredible teachers, steady administrators, really devoted and caring staff, and I feel a deep concern about the 10 or more years that I have in this district and even whether this is a place that I'm going to want to stay. I was very grateful for Dr. Tric's presentation this fall very carefully and gracefully outlining the challenges that our district is facing. As a population scientist, I can attest that the demographic shifts that we are facing are real and that without swift action, this is quickly going to translate into declining educational programs across the district. This will in turn trigger a further downward spiral where people don't move here because of the highquality schools and where people who
213are in the district look elsewhere because we no longer have an excellent educational system. These challenges are not going to go away on their own. We can't deliberate our way out of them and delays are incredibly costly as was mentioned earlier. And so, however painful and unpopular, we need the board to move forward swiftly and decisively, we need time for the district to plan. We need time for families to plan. We need to minimize the staff layoffs. And we need the board to act now. We need to think that in 10 years from now, we're still going to be living in a district with an excellent school system. After Allison, Emily Elkins is next. Good evening. Good night everybody. Hang in there. Um, couple of things I just wanted to bring up real quick. Um
214the original proposed criteria we're first looking at today seems very useful for identifying which facilities need attention but not for what action needs to come next. So thank you for considering an expansion of the criteria. It was interesting to hear your conversation today is in that note I wanted to clarify something that's kind of getting lost in the process as I'm trying to track this process. Um, the two Walput reports made recommendations about buildings and it didn't really recommend which school should be rebuilt, which should be shuttered for good. And that distinction matters a lot because we're now we're now asking a different question than we were 2 years ago, 3 years ago. And those are very communitydefining decisions. So, I've also noticed in this process there's been some inconsistency around how we use that
215language. Sometimes the word closure has meant permanently closing a school and redistricting students. Sometimes it's meant building a brand new building, and that's great. Um, and then other times we've talked about disbanding a whole school community without calling that a closure. And those are all fundamentally different outcomes with profoundly different impacts on students, teachers, and families. So moving forward, I'm asking for more precision and clarity and consistency on which of those things we're talking about so we can all understand what's actually being proposed. A focus on facilities is fine to identify facilities, but deciding what to rebuild, what to close requires additional criteria and more specificity. Um, and thank you, Ronnie, for acknowledging the reality that circumstances have changed. I've been a little confused by comments suggesting like nothing's changed or implying that some schools
216were made promises that others weren't. Um because really the bond plans made a promise to the whole district that some schools would be rebuilt, others would be renovated and that no schools would close. So that was a promise to all of us and I appreciate you considering that as well. Thank you. >> Hi. Hello. But we heard tonight that communities fare better with more advanced knowledge of closures and the planning. So I do consider more um just more planning or more um thought goes into some of these um points. I guess I am curious to know a plan or what would happen with the Phillips Athletic Field. Um, and I also would like the concern about traffic around intersections. Um, with many schools being redone, um, and that I guess just as a chapel resident
217of 30 years, I actually care more about this town um, than the current school I'm affiliated with. though I really do value the discussion about the whole community because this is a lasting this will have a bigger impact on all of us and will affect everybody. Um thank you Hi, I'm Miriam Vberg. I brought my laptop because last time I screwed up my thought and lost my train of thought. So, I'm going to help myself not do that today. I'd like to add context to my comment about dollars versus dimes in the last meeting. We've heard that closing a school is necessary to avoid a reduction in force, but when we look closely at the deputy superintendent's analysis, about 1.4 4 million of the projected 1.7 comes from eliminating staff positions. The actual non-staffing savings
218tied specifically to closing a building appear to be closer to $200,000. So, I think it's fair to pause and ask, are we framing this primarily as a facilities issue or as a staffing decision? Because those are two different scenarios. Research from University of Chicago and research for action suggests closing closure savings are often fragile. School closures can lead to enrollment declines up to 10% as families move to charter and private or to Durham if there's no schools on the east side of this city. In a 400 person school at 7,500 per student in state funding, that represents 300,000 in loss revenue. That exceeds the projected building savings that you guys are talking about. When you factor in transportation, which I argue can and should be assessed now and not later, that net savings becomes much
219less clear. Additionally, there appeared to be a significant discrepancy in enrollment projections. Roughly 500 student demographies 2526 forecast and the district's power BI dashboard. Please look into that. That is not a minor difference. It's large enough to materially affect the financial modeling. My request is this. Before making an irreversible decision, can we ensure the community sees a transparent scenario by scenario analysis that accounts for staffing, enrollment ships, transportation, and long-term fiscal impact. We have not seen that so far. If you're going to make a decision about dollars, let's make sure we're not overlooking the dimes that quietly add up or the human costs that don't show up neatly on a spreadsheet. Thank you all for being here. >> Monica still here. Monica, what about Kaitlyn? And then Travis and Ed. Caitlyn couldn't be here tonight.
220She had to go home, so I'm speaking in her place. Um, my name is Jackie and I live in Chapel Hill and I want to make two discreet points tonight. First, bond plans change all the time and the bond was a promise to all of us and not just the few schools selected for the earliest improvements. When we voted for the bond plan, closures were not a part of it. Now closures are up for consideration and the budgetary issues are dire. We need to re-evaluate whether it makes sense to build three new schools. People talk about trust and ignoring the fact that the school closures were not mentioned in the bond plan is an ultimate destruction of community trust. Second, I have concerns about criteria. I'm not sure if it is appropriate to decide on
221criteria when it is unclear that schools are in the criteria will which schools the criteria will be applied to. But if we must decide, I urge you to take more holistic approach to costs. Why are we considering whether an elementary school is close to a middle school and not whether or not closures would create school desert east of Chapel Hill? Why would we consider consider maintenance costs from the last five years but not transport and busing costs related from school closures? Facility costs alone do not capture equity concerns like proximity to affordable housing. The Legion Road affordable housing development was given millions in federal grant money in part because it would be in a walk zone for a public school. I request that the board please consider families who do not have flexible choice in
222in school choice. and please make decisions based on what is best for the school district as a whole and based on what we know now, even if it is inconvenient or uncomfortable to readress. Thank you. >> Travis here. Uh thank you members of the board for your time. Uh I'm the father of four CHCCS students and all of them are alumni of SD's Hills. School closures are painful because every one of our schools is a community as clearly shown tonight, not just a building. But two years ago, the school board and the community already did the hard work. We studied the data, listened to expensive experts, and then voters approved a bond that specifically included rebuilding Estie's Hills. That plan recognized the value of SC's strategic central location, promising to rebuild it while minimizing the
223impact of the students due to its current colllocated site with Phillips Middle School. Changing the plan now sends a damaging message. It tells families that even when they are fully engaged and the voters say yes, their work can be undone. Even if circumstances fluctuate, honoring voter approved commitments is paramount to maintaining public trust. While budget shortfalls are real and deserve serious attention, discarding or informally revisiting prior adopted plans risk eroding public confidence and spending more money to evaluate a plan is reckless. Taxpayers deserve transparency and integrity in long-term planning decisions. Honor the plan and the bond and show the community that when they trust this board, the trust goes both ways. Thank you for your time tonight. still here. Then Tiffany after Lyn. Tiffany still here. But Lynn is first. >> Sorry about that. >>
224Good evening. My name is Lynn. I'm a parent of two at FPG. I want to add my voice to many others here tonight by stressing something that is as important as it is obvious. That is that there is a big difference between a building and a school. Obviously, a school is not a building or a collection of buildings. We are making a decision about closing schools. So why are we selecting criteria that apply only to buildings? I believe that any pursuit of purely objective criteria that will make this decision for us would be irresponsible. I believe that any attempt to base your decision on a purely financial analysis would be irresponsible. I hope that none of you will make your most important decisions behind a curtain of objectivity and financial analysis. Instead, I hope that
225each of you will take a principled stand based on your unique perspective and your empathetic rapport with the people you serve. Thank you. Good evening. Thank you for working to identify criteria within a reasonable timeline. I agree that clarity cannot be indefinitely delayed and that prolonged uncertainty affects both staff and families. At the same time, decisions of this magnitude should reflect evidence-based best practice. Practices rooted in evidence-based research is what you expect of your staff when they teach our children. when they teach our children when they demonstrate their learning and I expect that of you. National and state guidance on school closures consistently emphasizes multiffactor evaluations, framework, transparent meth methodology, and publicly demonstrated modeling. It absolutely does not solely consider facilities alone. Much of the past discussions referenced projected savings needed, but we are rapidly
226moving to final decisions while still being essentially napkin math. It would strengthen public trust and stabilize current and future enrollment and staff to see the full financial and staffing model, including attrition assumptions, transition costs, transportation adjustments, and the net staffing impact over multiple years. and show how every single school sits on the criteria for a fair process. Please stop naming schools prematurely. It is absolutely destroying our community. I am not minimizing the lift you have here and I believe you'll be proud if you take on the thorough process. However much work it takes, I believe it will more importantly stop the bleeding on enrollment and staff retention as well as eliminate interchool competition. Personnel comprise the majority of district operating expenditures and research consistently shows that staffing reductions are the top performing outcome of fiscal
227savings in closure scenarios. If closure timeline is being framed as a way to protect staff, the board should clearly demonstrate how staffing levels differ under closure and non-closure pathways. It seems that the fact that a reduction in staff will be unavoidable is getting minimized. Thank you for your time. Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Melissa Maris. I have three kids uh who are currently enrolled in elementary school in CHTCS kindergarten, third, and fifth grades. I spent most of my life in education. Um and I've had the privilege of volunteering at our school somewhat frequently, and I understand how hard our teachers and staff work every day to serve our community. And I wanted to come here tonight not as a representative of a school, but in a role that
228I think probably everyone in this room can relate to, which is as a parent who really believes in public education. I believe in showing up for it. I believe in funding it. I believe in sending my kids to it. I believe in donating my time and talent to it. Um, I even work at a private school and I would choose CHCCS for my children again and again. I implore you to include stakeholder voices in your decision-making process and not just as a cursory afterthought. I am begging you to be intentional about a process and a timeline that do not hit elementary schools friends and families against each other in a competition for survival. That's not fair to us and it's not productive. Please follow the example Dr. Trice set for us last fall and see
229us, your community, as willing partners in a process to do better for all our students. Do not treat us like antagonists or paint us to be villains by sharing information or support disproportionately. We are trusting you to engage in this process in a fair and impartial way. Please do it for our students. They deserve nothing less. Thank you. HI FRIENDS. THANK YOU again for the late night. I know um tomorrow we're all going to be really sleepy, but I am going to be in excellent company with everyone that is here tonight. Um so my name is Ash Sherman. I serve as the elementary level lead with the Chapel Hill Carver Association of Educators. Um and so this statement was written collaboratively by several of our members in different buildings as well as by all of
230our elementary school building leads. Uh so we are representing Ephesus, Estus Hills, FPG, Glenwood, McDougall, Morris Grove, Northside, and Scrogs and uh together we are advocating for clear and timely information on staffing impacts associated with school closures. I know that's been brought up a few times tonight. Um we recognize the financial realities that we are in. We recognize the need for school closure and the need to um have a timely decision made on that. We also encourage transparent communication about all of the cost-saving measures that our district has already implemented. We know that there have been a lot of them and I think that that will help our community understand the closure process better. Um we also know that closure is going to impact every stakeholder in our district. We uh want to just also
231recognize and honor the fear, the uncertainty, the sadness, the feelings that a lot of us are having. Um, I think that staff members in particular have unique questions about the impacts on our livelihood and on our positions. This process is not only going to impact staff members at the schools that close. We know that every elementary school is going to be impacted through redistricting, through enrollment shifts, and through position changes. Um, allocations will change and we don't want uncertainty to impact morale. So every single success in our district can be directly credited to our talented, passionate, and dedicated, classified, and certified staff members. So we are asking our district leadership to provide some clear guidance as early as possible to give us that long runway that you mentioned, Dr. Trice, um, and to consider some
232of the questions that our staff members have raised, such as what job guarantees there will be for permanent staff, how placement decisions may occur. Um, I'm going to turn it over to my colleague who's next. >> Hi, I'm Jenna Nielson. I'm also a CHCA member and here to represent all of those people who wrote this statement. Um, so like Asha said, our big concern is making a timely decision for closure so we can move on to another really hard conversation, which is how are we going to protect our people? So we want a timeline for when staff can expect placement decisions. We want to know how leadership is going to incorporate building level staff voice into the decision- making. and we want to know a little bit about ratios for these singleton positions that are
233going to be the most impacted um no matter which school closes. Um we're going to keep educating the same number of kids h just with fewer buildings and the students needs won't decrease because we're in fewer buildings. So um in fact school closure is going to cause stress and turmoil for these kids. So our jobs are going to be harder in this process. Um, our elementary currently staff singleton positions, one per school, regardless of enrollment size. There's the specialists teachers, world languages, coaches, social workers, librarians, counselors, nurses, custodians, bookkeepers, data managers, food service people, principles, assistant principles. We're talking about a big portion of our beloved staff members. Um, and these roles are already stretched thin. So, we're wondering rather than increasing the number of students each of these singleton positions serve, could we use
234close school closure as an opportunity to improve ratios in a thoughtful, meaningful way? Um, as you guys continue planning for future staffing changes, we request that building level staff have involvement in the process. Um, by including input from the stakeholders central to this process, a clear plan can be communicated in a way that minimizes harm to those staff members. Um, in conclusion, we have two asks. A quick closure decision and then energy towards clearly communicating what how this is going to affect SPA staff positions and uh what process could be used to humanely, kindly, thoughtfully reassign these impacted staff. With transparency, meaningful stakeholder input, leadership can communicate care and respect to the professionals who make our elementary schools extraordinary places. Thank you. Hi. Um, I'm Amanda Fox. I teach at Estas Hills Elementary, but I'm
235not here to advocate for one particular school. Um, I'm here to stand up with my colleagues that teach at the various schools throughout the district. And if I advocate for my school, I'd be actively advocating against theirs. Um, I know this is a tough decision. I don't envy you all having to make it. Um, I hope that you will commit to making the decision quickly. I feel like tonight we started to get farther away from the decision and farther away from the timeline and I know um I know how bad the riffs affected a lot of people and I know how badly it will affect people again. Um people are going to lose their positions anyway. We want to minimize that harm. Um and I really want to make sure that we stick to the
236timeline as much as possible. Also, I feel like the community needs to hear that we need to show up. We need to read our emails. We need to come to the Q&A sessions that get scheduled. Dr. Trace, I feel like, has gone above and beyond trying to make sure that there are a lot of opportunities for community engagement. Um, and some of those have been poorly attended, and I get it. It's a new thing. But I do think that we need to meet the board halfway. We need to make sure that we are hearing what they are telling us because they are trying to listen to us. But some of us are repeating the same things that have already been reject been addressed and I feel like that's just wasting even more time. Also, um
237we need to pressure the legislature to actually fund our public schools and we need to show up and rally the way that we show up here. Thank you. Hi, I'm a mom of four. Um, one at Phillips, two at um, Ephesus and one hopefully going to Ephesus. I would just like to say that um, it keeps being asked what has changed between the bond time and um, the now time and as Dr. Price Dr. Trice um so eloquently put the calculus which has changed everything the calculus has changed that's why he had 15 meetings to brief us about the dire numbers so everything has changed so again the school bond that we all voted for has changed so I do I do think that visiting all five schools would be the most transparent thing to
238do to gain our trust and with that I will say if you decide to close Ephesus if you can show us Why? If you can give us the reasons that are not all financial, it'll be so much easier to swallow. Um, second of all, I have a child going to Phillips. He can't get there 50% of the time by the bus. Can't get there. Tried to give him a Valentine for his bus driver. Mom, we have a different bus driver every day. How are you going to bus? Why are you going to take away a walk zone school? The bus kids, you got to look at the financials of the transportation. Um, third of all, how do we recruit people to our district? How do we change these desperate numbers? Reduce the tech. Look at
239Wake. Look at Wake. They're doing away with the one to one. We are paying these companies, these billionaires that are very corrupt, as we all know, millions of dollars. Stop it. Stop it. Then we won't have to close schools. And then I will just end with um end with words I did not write that I think are great. Transparency about financial net savings, staffing, and community impact will strengthen trust in whatever decision is made today and decisions needed tomorrow. Judging by the volume of people in this room, the general distress in the community, you do not have the trust yet, and you should want it. Um, I will also say on the middle school, elementary school thing, have y'all driven down those roads? It's awful. Um, and unsafe. Kathy still here. Elliot, Jennifer, Jen, after
240Jen. What about Jennifer T. Hi, thanks for the opportunity to speak. I'm Jen Castanza. I'm a parent of two students at Ephesus Elementary. And while you're considering criteria and before any school is closed, I have three requests. Number one, share a comprehensive plan for all schools under consideration, including closure, consolidation, rebuilding, or renovation. No matter how you do the math, how many schools you close, how many schools are considered, how many schools you can rebuild, there there will be at least one school that's older and needs something, and you need to tell us how the remainder of the bond funds or other funds ma will be spent to improve the schools that remain open. Our community deserves to see the full picture before irreversible decisions about closing schools are made. And number two, focus on
241outcomes and demonstrate how closures will improve not harm educational outcomes. Many of the proposed criteria focus on facilities and maintenance costs. Also in the emails, the stated goal of this whole process has been to put as many students as possible in state-of-the-art facilities. While modern buildings matter, research consistently shows that teacher quality and stable school environments are primary drivers of school success of student success, excuse me, not facilities or technology. If we rely on criteria that prioritize building maintenance costs and ease of rebuilding and do not consider impacts on proven educational environments, we are focusing on the means to an end and we risk losing what's actually working if we prioritize criteria that don't guarantee better outcomes. In short, you can make a financial and buildings decision based on criteria that are broader than finances
242and buildings. And I urge you to do that. Number three, show how you'll prioritize the schools, teachers, and communities that are succeeding in any plan. Show you show how you'll keep the school environments that serve underserved and marginalized communities. Keep the excellent teachers you we have. Preserve school environments that have the best academic and growth outcomes for all students. and the schools where teachers love to work. Thank you. >> Hi, I'm Jen Tang. I'm a mom of a kindergartener at Glenwood and I didn't know that I would be able to make it here. So, I haven't eaten. If I sound delirious, that's because I am. Um, dinner that is. And if it's um and I didn't prepare marks because again, I didn't know I'd be here. But here I am for 5 hours. So, but
243I I'm not here necessarily to advocate for any school. I do want to say though that, you know, I moved here in 2019 because I had heard about the wonderful Glenwood dual immersion program that a lot of my friends and colleagues had talked about. You know, I put my son in the inter national montasauri school so he could start his mandarin immersion continue, you know, because I very much want to support public schools and I've been recruiting actually other parents from IMS don't tell IMS to come and join us, you know, because they also live in Chapel Hill and we're considering but now I don't even know what to say to them because I have no vision for what's going to happen to Glenwood in the next, you know, five years. I don't even know
244like if I should encourage people to come. I don't know what's going to happen to my own son. But I mean clearly dual languages are so important and I will say one thing that's been really disturbing to me is you know we talk about like we want to stick to the referendum. I voted for that referendum. Of course I want to support all our public schools. But at that time I did not vote to close the school that I had planned for my son to go to before he was even conceived. And so I find it very unfair to use the referendum as something to hold us to. when I voted for it because I wanted to support all schools, not because I was voting to at the expense of my future son's school. Again,
245if Glenwood ends up having to move to another school, fine. But please keep all the dual language programs, the world programs, the steam together. There is a real community at Glenwood. Like even though I've only been there for six months, I can tell you I don't think can be easily replaced. I want to know how my these like hundreds of kids are suddenly going to just be moved into another school. If I have to go and I'm already going across, you know, town. I live in the Morris Grove, you know, district. I know about all the controversies most my Morris Grove neighbors brought to you all in the past when you all wanted to, you know, do some changes there. I'm willing to drive anywhere, but just keep our kids together and our programs together.
246Please. >> Is Meredith here? Alexander Holly here. >> Hi. Um, my name is Meredith Toer. I am the parent of a fifth grader at FPG, but honestly, this isn't going to affect us in the grand scheme of things. So, I'm here to talk for all of our children. We started this evening with well over a hundred people in this room. And though we've lost some maybe to Bridgetton, but probably because it's near midnight, um there are a lot of families still here. This is clearly something everyone is very passionate about and you don't see that unless this really matters. We've heard from many community members tonight about the importance of each of these schools to their families and it's clear that it really matters that we stay together. That has to be part of your
247criteria decision-making, not just the financial implications. There's obviously a shortfall we have to account for, but if you're not considering the community impact and the kind of reality of how our students are going to deal with this, it changes the foundation of our community as a whole and it makes it less likely for people to want to come here. It's been hard to actually sit and listen to everybody passionately talk and know that a lot of our very vulnerable community members from our dualingual pro dual language programs are the very people who are dealing with just a lot right now. So I think that needs to be another part of your criteria. I think we're all tired, maybe hungry and emotional. We appreciate you all taking the time to be here and think about these
248things. You need to consider more than just the buildings when you're making your decision. >> Emily Kirk is after Alexander. >> Um, thank you for your service and for being here so late um to the whole board. Uh, my name is Sasha Holly. I'm a parent of four students at FPG um kindergarten through fifth grade and I'm also a fourth grade teacher there. Uh when I was living temporarily in Chapel Hill in 2020, one of the reasons my wife and I decided to permanently relocate here was when our eldest got a spot at FPG. It's a very unique whole school bilingual program. Um, in terms of criteria, I don't know why enrollment is not being talked about more and more heavily considered. Dr. Griffin said schools are enrolled at 75%. FPG and Glenwood are at
24996%. We are not driving the fiscal crisis and everyone at our school chose our school over their zone schools. We increase enrollment. People move to the district to be students at our school to come to our school. Um, lastly, I just want to say I was really dismayed when FPG was just it seemed to be casually added to the list of possible closures in the last meeting. Um, it I'm saddened and ashamed the board is considering closing our bilingual Spanish school amidst discriminatory and racist ICE attacks in our state and all over our country. Our message to our students in November was that it's safe to come to school. I wasn't scared to bring my kids to school, but many of my students families were. Many staff members who don't look like me carried their
250passport to school and called a loved one when they arrived. To casually add FPG back to the list without thinking about the impact on our community and the current political reality was disrespectful. I urge you to stand up for our families that continue to be targeted by our deplorable federal admin administration and defend and increase bilingual education for the benefit of us all. Thank you. Is Jared here? >> Iris. Julie. Hello. Julie Wary. I am speaking tonight as a parent of a two CHCCS students. Um, I just want to start by acknowledging the difficult position we're in. And I want to acknowledge the elephant in the room. We're all very frustrated with each other, but really, we should be frustrated with our state legislature. That is why we're here right now. Um, we're in the
251position we're in debating school closures because of the extreme underfunding of our public school by the state of North Carolina. And if we if even half of the people in this room tonight could think about going to Raleigh and talking about this, we might actually be having a different conversation. in a year or three or five years from now. So, I don't want to lose sight of that. My my other two points are not advice or criteria or anything like that. It's just something I'd love for the B the board to consider as they enter or in the midst of this murky middle that we're in. The first is we have the right leader at the right time in Dr. Trice. I believe he has the trust and confidence of many stakeholders in our district,
252of you as schoolboard members, of parents, of educators, of his staff. Um, I hear time and again in carpool lines, outside at PTA meetings of how much trust he has built in this community. And I know and I trust that he's working to keep our district healthy. And he's also working to keep our community strong. And so I just urge you as board members to listen to him and listen to his staff because we trust him and I believe he's the leader we need right now. Um my last point is that I want to encourage you to be transparent, decisive, and effective in our plan. Um as one of my co-workers often says, and I love it, clear is kind. And I really believe that in this conversation. Thank you. Good evening. My name is
253Nicholas Penward and I'm a father of a first grader at um at FPG Belingu. I recognize the district is facing real enrollment and financial pressures. I appreciate the work you're doing to think long term. And as you consider consolidation, I ask that you ground this decision in principles that protect what families actively choose and what advances educational excellence. FPG's schoolwide dual language model is one of those programs. Its enrollment is stable, demand is strong. More than 500 students choose to attend and remain. In a period of district-wide decline, programs that attract and retain families are not liabilities. They're assets. Before any vote, I respectfully ask that you consider or that you apply these four principles. First, preserve proven high demand programs. Consolidation should protect models with demonstrated demand and strong reput strong retention, including FBG's
254schoolwide dual language program. Second, publish a clear net fiscal analysis. Facility savings must be weighed against potential enrollment loss and reduced funding if families shift to charter, private, or homeschool programs. A smaller building footprint does not help if it accelerates enrollment decline. Third, formally protect program integrity independent of facilities. If buildings change, commit publicly that FPG's schoolwide dual language model will remain intact. Fourth, ensure this decision supports a long-term enrollment strategy, not just short-term cost reduction. This is not only about buildings. It is about whether the district will protect and strengthen programs that families actively choose. FPG is a district asset. I urge you to preserve it as part of a sustainable, excellent future for our public schools. Thank you so much to the school board. I'm Adrianne Lona. It's a wildly late hour, so
255let me try and wrap this up. Our story is not too dissimilar from um those that have talked already, but I'm also a child adolescence psychiatrist uh with a strong commitment to social and emotional learning. So, we left the San Francisco Bay area in 2017 really looking for a progressive home focused on racial equity for our bilingual by multi-racial family. We chose Chapel Hill as that community specifically to send our two kids to chap to uh Frank Porter Belingu. So, FPG is a foundation of our progressive community here in Chapel Hill. So, its loss would leave a permanent hole in our community and roll back decades of progress. The school board and the district leadership has a very difficult decision ahead of them and I respect and understand that objective data is powerful. I am
256also aware that monetary and objective data could have never been the driving force behind some of the most important decisions in this nation like desegregation. I respectfully urge you to consider the dramatic blow to our progressive culture and community that closing FPG would cause and to do all you can to prevent it. Thank you so much for your work and thank you so much for Hi. Thank you so much. I know it's really late so I'm gonna be fast because a few of the things I was going to say other people's have said it have said it much better than me but I was going to ask you know one thing I haven't heard tonight is the cost of for example if we move or close FPG or Glenwood you've said you're committ the programs
257remain intact hopefully right the decision is about buildings it's not about programs but what I haven't heard in the cost discussion is if those programs remain intact and you close for example FPG or Glenwood where do those kids go what's the cost to that If FPG is still on the list of schools to rebuild to be rebuilt, if you move those kids for three to five years while you rebuild that school, what's that cost? You have 500 kids at FPG, think 400 to 500 at Glenwood. There's there's a huge cost. So, I would just ask the board to consider that if you're going to close one of the dual language schools, but you're committed to the program, please consider the cost in doing so. Thank you. Hi all. Um, I'm a fill your face. I
258was here two weeks ago. I'll keep coming until we have a set of criteria that we can get behind. And I don't mean we as a school. I'm so sorry. I forgot to introd myself again. I did this last time. Emily Croitz, our PTA president for Glenwood. My son is in fourth grade dual language. Um, I can talk about how amazing our program is, how amazing our school is. It's all great, but truly I want to urge you all to make a decision that's timely. Our staff, as you've heard from the staff groups, are very concerned about their jobs. And each time we draw things out, you've seen what it's done in the community. It's tearing people apart. And we can't come together until we have specific data that helps make those decisions. And if
259it's financial, then we have that data. I just want that I want the criteria to be established and developed and waited. And I appreciate y'all talking about it tonight, but I think there is a sense of urgency on the timeline because the community can't begin to heal and truly come together as a district until we feel like we're not being pitted against each other. And the five PTAs of all the schools have been getting together over the past week. We have been having conversations and hard conversations and I just ask that you that you all make a decision as soon as possible and do your due diligence. um but allow us also that opportunity to then work together to heal. Thank you. So Emily was our last person who signed up. So at this point
260in time, I know Mr. Link, you can wait. There seems to be more people who want to speak. So if you want to add anything and comment add please line up. I'm sorry. Okay. So it sounds like these are our last three. Okay. Remember for public comment you can always email us which many of you have. You can keep emailing us. It's okay. But let's let's get started. Is it just one or two? I'm looking to see. It's three. Okay. Thank you. My name is Dennis Kiff and I'm a parent of a second grader at Ephesus Elementary. And I came here today to hear a reasonable discussion about very uh specific criteria which will be applied to choosing the fate of the elementary schools in our school district. And I'm standing here deeply disappointed because
261today's discussion as well as from two weeks ago keeps bouncing back to some implicit agreements from two years ago instead of hearing a very specific criteria on what your decisions will be based. And in my opinion there is a very simple thing that you forget to consider. This is financial savings because your final goal as I understand as as you can state time and again is to reach financial solveny of the district and to do so to decide which schools will be closed which will be renovated all you need to consider are two factors. The cost of upkeep of a school for one year before it's closed period. The cost of this upkeeping the same school for five years until it's been rebuilt. The difference between these two values will give you the financial savings
262in the course of your decision. Why it hasn't been discussed is mindboggling to me. take seriously. This board in my opinion will not be able to navigate our school district to financial solveny until you are ready to actually stem your decisions from solid reasonable financial factors. >> Hi, my name is Mallerie Turner. Um, and my ask for the board tonight is to collaborate or at least coordinate with the town council and county commissioners. We pay an exorbitant amount of tax money and the fact that our elected officials are working in different directions is deeply disappointing. For example, the millions of dollars planned for the Legion Road affordable housing project, which that decision was predicated on being walkable to Ephesus. To be frank, at this point, I'm pretty sure that you all have decided to close
263Ephesus. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's the impression I'm getting. And it feels like our tax dollars are being wasted. I am more than happy to pay high taxes if I believe that they are being spent responsibly. And right now, I do not believe that that is the case. I've spent the last week calling town council members and the mayor asking them to coordinate with the board on this issue. When I speak to them, they tell me they want to, but then I get a response later that there's no appetite to work together because you're separ separate elected bodies. I respect each of you all's decision-m, but there there is alignment here that should be discussed comprehensively, not one-on-one, comprehensively, the entire board with all of the commissioners, all of the
264town council. So, that's my ask of you tonight. Thank you very much. GOOD EVENING. UM, MY NAME IS LAUREN PAVAS. I have met a lot of you before. I'm a parent in the district. Um, my kids are both soon to be high schoolers, so I do not have a horse in this race. I am really here because I'm a clinical psychologist working with children and families and the lens I bring to everything as kids and their basic developmental needs. Like many people in this room, I've been really dismayed by the lack of process and the lack of big picture strategic thinking here. Um I think everyone in this room understands the financial pressure. We understand the need to close schools and we want the best decision to be made for the district as a whole.
265I'm going to articulate I know there's a lot of back and forth about the bond and I want to articulate clearly what I see as kind of the original sin here. If you followed the bond discussions, you know that the district originally proposed a programmatically driven plan for rebuilding schools. That was then modified because of loud community outcry and adult politics. Then they made plan two and the exact same thing happened again. And then the the board landed in a place really based on the adults in the community, not the kids and their needs. So, this is this is what I really hope. Parents and teachers want honesty. We want a comprehensive, forward-looking, long-term strategic plan that, as Dr. Trice challenged all of us at his enrollment meetings, really imagines what this district could be.
266So, please put students and their basic developmental and educational needs at the center of every decision. Give us a forward-looking long-term plan, not short-term panic-driven decisions. Ask your teachers what to do. Ask your parents what their priorities are. There are so many brilliant, smart, creative people in this district. We've got to think out of the box. And there are people who are here who want to help and can do that. Please ask us. Let us be involved in the process. We would like to help. Thank you. MADAME CHAIR, Madame Vice Chair, members of the board, Dr. Trice, members of the community still up and watching at the witching hour. Um, I've been doing this a long time and it's always nice to be able to mark something new on my my list, which is speaking
267after midnight. Um so I rise uh this evening to speak uh both on behalf of our organization and then um should I run over right to use my individual time there. But my message tonight is actually really simple and hopefully we can close on one of hope. I walked out of here tonight right seeing community members peacefully and civily and politely advocating for public schools. That's amazing. I walked out of here tonight um seeing individuals talk about revenue and not just cuts. Believe you me, I've been waiting my entire teaching career for this state legislature, right, to adequately fund public schools. I would love it if you can find me four county commissioners who are ready to raise the six plus cents that it would take to not only deal with our budget but their
268budget as well. Right. And so I I I see lots of positives that are here and most importantly and yes these are difficult and these are right um tensionfilled right um situations but I saw underlying unity and I saw underlying unity in a community that is willing to stand up and back its superintendent and Dr. Trice. I did not hear one statement to the contrary about the transparent open right and um supportive environment he's created for having this discussion. I also stood up and as a member, right, and as the president of an organization on behalf of educators, I did not hear one person sit here and say, "Yeah, let's cut those educators." You all acknowledge what we've been saying all along, right? It's our people what are going to make this district special and
269most importantly are going to make our future citizens and leaders, right? Our kids the ones who are going to be successful. What I want to leave you with is time. Even if you could find all of that, right? The county commission won't vote on its budget till June. And even if they raise money, as you heard from our superintendent, if we don't act now, riffs are coming. And what you also heard is this is not right. And I think our board member Meredith put it best. We don't want to end up in a lose-lose situation because if we don't act, it will be riffs for personnel and then it will be school closures which will cause additional personnel cuts. So the choice is clear. Do we cut now and yes there will be job losses
270but avoid right the 50 to 80 additional cuts that will come on top of the schools or do we cut right because we won't act. Do we cut 50 to 80 people right away with no runway and then still cut the same people that we're going to have to cut when schools close? To me, this is a very simple proposition and a very simple outcome to a very difficult and deeply complicated question. And I hope that people have listened to one another and will work to repair right the the community ties. But at the end of the day, I believe in public education. I believe in our kids. I believe in this board. I believe in the superintendent. And I believe we are going to get this job done and get it done now. Thank
271you. With that, that ends our work session public comments for members. Um I'm going to go ahead and adjourn the meeting. Thank you.