001Does anybody need another map? I have a couple. >> Oh, they're the same. They're too different. >> Oh, sorry about that. [clears throat and cough] >> It's 7 o'clock. I'll go ahead and call the meeting to order. Special meeting of the boards. Everybody would stand for the pledge of >> allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty and all. >> There is an open meeting statement on the south wall of the boardroom. Um, all board members are in attendance. I have not received any public forum sheets. So, we have no public comment forward this evening. >> That correct? >> Any either. >> So, we're going to move right on to our discussion and action items. Uh 3.1
002discuss take action to grant Dr. Danker the authority to work with Clark Anderson to develop architectural and mechanical drawings for possible additions to both the Navy City Elementary and the David City High School and to replace the HVAC and lighting. Then before we get started, I gave you guys a second copy of the Excel spreadsheet that shows our current uh financial situation when it comes to our QC pup bond and then showing that we paid off our lease purchase and then some other pertinent information in terms of a possible 20 or 25 year new lease purchase. In the meantime, I also got a hold of Tim Rip, uh, who works for Clark Anderson and been our lead architect longer than I've been here and told him at our last meeting. I also threw out the
003idea of a four classroom addition at the elementary. And so, um, that's what you have in front of you is, uh, two different [clears throat] possible scenarios or options if we would decide or if you would decide to build four classrooms at the elementary. Uh, one possibility would be to put all four of them uh, directly north of the elementary gym. And the other option would be to put two on the north side and two on the east side. um may or may not have to move some playground equipment with that option. And until we get into much greater detail of size and everything of those classrooms, we wouldn't know that. But wanted to at least give you conceptually an idea of what that might look like and where if the Ford would decide to
004go that route. you know, we'd already talked about where the FCS room would go and competition gym and those [clears throat] types of things, but really hadn't visualized where those uh four classrooms could potentially go. So, how long to at least take the liberty of doing that so you could at least visualize that. Um, the other action item tonight is also talking about whether or not we use a construction manager at risk company or not. And so I had emailed Tim just to ask him kind of what that process might look like and Clay being in the construction business probably has some ideas too of what that looks like. And so when we get to the next action item, we can talk through that or it makes sense to talk about both of them at
005the same time. That's really up to the board credit to decide. wanted to at least give you that information too as we start processing, you know, what the board would like to do. And and uh the other thing I guess I would mention is that the facilities committee did meet last Thursday. um and talked a little bit about obviously these facility projects and then also uh possibility of where stall garage and so um I have contacted an owner in nearby area um and at least tried to see if we could come to a reasonable price on some properties close to where we can move that fourstar garage. I don't have any real numbers from the board at this time. Um, and I don't want to disclose to at this point. That would be unfair to
006the owners of those properties as well right now. But want to at least let you know the behind thescenes facilities committed and working on that piece is obviously it'd be hard to do much in terms of a gym if that's the way the board would go until you move that four cell garage. So, uh, I think we're going to have that handled, but need to obviously negotiate a price and timeline. Hopefully by the July board meeting, we'll have something to bring to the entire board. With that, I guess turn over you guys to conversation and thoughts and finish. [snorts and clears throat] No, it's been a couple weeks since we had a big, you know, a lot of thoughts at our regular board meeting in June. So, I don't know, um, if anybody has been,
007um, heard anything. Has anybody reached out to you? Have you had any other thoughts on, you know, that thing that we've that we talked about in our last meeting? >> Where's everybody thinking? I've had stand working where I have a lot of people that come in and like to give their thoughts and stuff and I appreciate it. I also had um someone call and they're in favor of the things that we need but just to be considerate of the high taxes that are being and I explained to them and I mean they were open to hear everything and they were cordial and very um I mean middle ground but just also it's just a big project and a big stuff to consider and they um appreciated that Justin asked for a bond and they felt
008like that would be something that we should consider. So, I just want to put that out there because they asked me or talk to me about it. So, I will. But then I did have several in the last couple weeks come and say, "We need it. We want it. Do it." Because if we don't do it now, it won't get done. So, and that's kind of been the majority, but I do want to put that out there that people in favor, one not so much. So, just in the last Well, since our last meeting, >> right? Sure. Yeah. >> My conversations have been pretty much a little bit tilted towards the the the you know, the naysayers that, you know, we probably don't meet a gymnasium. Um uh a lot of farmers opinions, you know,
009their their their balance sheets are are [clears throat] struggling now. Um you know, now's not a good time. I know we're not increasing taxes, but it it's it's just not a good look whenever, you know, when property taxes are a big portion of the budget. Um that being said though, you know, more of my conversations, a lot of them were, you know, 50/50. you know, uh, a lot of them ended like the conversation with, "I'm glad it's your decision, not my decision." I'm Michael Gerson. It really gives me a good direction. >> I heard that, too. >> Um, [cough] and I am a little bit concerned. Um, there's an opinion that there's a lot of people don't know about this yet, >> which I find it hard to believe in the state and agents, social
010media. Um, I don't know. I don't read the banner press. Has any of this been put print? That's that's only my concern. Biggest concern is that our our our new strategic plan uh came out in the banner press uh last September or October which included everything from parking to more practice space to an SCS to East. Now, the four classrooms, the preschool weren't included in that newspaper article, but that was last September. And we've had this conversation on the agenda since our January u board admin retreat. And so, we've had seven meetings which has been discussed, all of which have been publicly advertised. Um, and that's in addition to the community meeting they had as well. So, people have had at least eight opportunities at open public meetings to come and attend and hear the
011converation. They're all recording on YouTube. And so, at some point, I'm not sure what else you do because like you said, it's also on social media. I don't know. We had a really great turnout that meeting the first one. >> The first one the first one [clears throat] that we had it was a good turnout. I think a lot of them a lot of the people who attended were they were parents and and staff members you know and like obviously they have a vested interest in what's happening and I you know one of the things I I hear I've heard mostly from staff members and their want for us to do um they you know of course they're on board with all the other stuff but specifically for the gym the need for the gym
012and the ways that that's going to Um, and I have to remind even myself, you know, a majority of our staff are also our local taxpayers. Even though I don't want to discount that farmers are are pay the majority of those property taxes, but we also have, you know, people that um that that pay taxes even if it's not a lot, but their voice also matters too. But but I in in the last two weeks, I've I've heard from staff members who who um have said a lot of the same things that we've talked about in all of our other meetings and how the gym isn't just for athletics that it changes the scheduling and it changes a lot of the other things that we that we do for students. So, um, so yeah, it's
013been back and forth saying you guys, >> most of mine have been positive, um, for stuff. I did have one. I was probably a 50/50 one like that cuz I think when most people hear gym, they think, oh, this is just for basketball or just for volleyball. When you can talk to them and explain to them, no, it's not just about that. It's about locker rooms. It's about PE. It's about youth sports. It's about wrestling. It's about all kinds of different like stuff you wouldn't normally think of when when um you hear just a gym than they're like, "Okay, that makes way more sense than just building a big gym." So, probably convince them more to the positive side, but everybody else I've talked to said it's a need and that it's important to me.
014I've had and I'm not naive that there aren't plenty of people out there that probably are against it, but just the ones that I've heard from at least >> have been more positive than negative. [clears throat] I've had nobody honestly talk to the last two weeks, but yeah. Well, I mean, I just I'm sto majority of input that we receive pain was was from a positive state. I I mean I struggle with it internally a little bit because it's I mean if the I also formally I I'm sympathetic to that aspect of it but financial person and says you know if we've ident we went through the process and the strategic plan and this has latest been identified to me and we're going to do it then it seems like whether that's this year or
015or next two or five years down the road, it kind of just gets more expensive and it's not like we're going to be able to change change that part of it. And so so then so then I look at well what's the cheapest way we can do it if we could do it that way. I mean it seems like we got to do something I guess a little bit because in my mind don't do nothing. It's not like you know not like it's going to change the tax system a whole lot. >> Yeah. because we have we have these future needs. We either got to save for them, [clears throat] which that works. But if we save the the building fund levy for three years, that pretty much gets eaten up by increased cost of
016construction. That just didn't matter today. Like, you know, on the $20 million project, if 6% 6% cost of uh increase in cost of construction every year, it's about 1.5 million. Well, we're leving 1.4. So every year weight it gets eaten up by you know even if you it's just not possible to to to get ahead of that I guess >> my question is too because we and we've talked about this in several other meetings is that um we are going to continue so that whatever we're building whether it be the smallest thing in, you know, HVAC only or if we're going to do all of the things that have been put in front of us regardless of the size of the project, we are paying for the project out of the building fund. Is that
017true? >> Right. >> And through that building fund, we are maintaining the exact same dollars that we're taxing that we have been taxing for the last I don't know decade maybe. And so when I think about it that way, I'm thinking, okay, we're when we've said we're not increasing taxes. So if we don't do those things, if we don't do it's either we do a project and it's paid for in two years, we do a couple of things and it's paid for in seven years, we do a couple more things and it's paid for in 20 years. Regardless, we're only t we're only using the money that we're taxing in the building fund and we're not increasing that. And I would say that if we don't do anything, if we only do a couple things,
018we're not lowering our taxes because regardless, we still have to do the HVAC. So, we're taxing the same amount regardless of what projects we're doing. And when I think about that, then now it goes to what are what are our needs and and what are we trying to do and and where how are we moving the district forward. So then, you know, you're putting aside some of that the money of it because we're not going to be lowering our taxes because we still have these really really serious needs in the HVAC. Um, and so that's kind of been a little bit of my thought process, too, is that it's not that well, we do it and we maintain taxes or we don't do it and we lower taxes. That's not the conversation that we're having.
019We're maintaining the taxes regardless if we do anything or not. And that might not be something that people thought about too. you know, what do you think about financial part today? >> CL, what have you for I'm I haven't drew much in the last two weeks prior to that. It's pretty much all positive. Um, didn't especially I mean I heard from several teachers too that pretty exciting and I know that's not everyone. Um, it's it's the most positive that I've heard. I I did talk to Tim Rip and you know just asked a ballpark figure if a guy does move forward with drawings and mechanical and architectural drawings and most companies are in that 7% range give or take. And so depending upon how big of a project we do or the board decides to
020do that could be an $850,000 to a million dollar investment that you're making. depending upon what you decide. Just keep that in mind also. You know there is an investment if you decide to move forward. Yeah. Some of my my on the flip side [clears throat] some of my concerns odd uh I have never been on this board where I have felt hamstrung by a decision that a previous board have made. I know that I've been on the board for 16 years. So that would probably be a decision that I made. So of course I wouldn't feel like I was bound by anything. But I don't I also don't want any future board to feel like they can't make a decision or they can't meet the needs of the school at a future time because
021we have basically tied their hands on the building project for the next 20 or however many years. And that part really that gives me buzz because that's you know it's one thing and we you've said this before it's one thing to talk about a five to sevenyear lease um but when you're talking 20 years you're talking potentially you know turnover of multiple board members in that situation and and I know we can't all know what could be potential needs even even now when we talk about are our roofs will be taken care of are the HVAC will be taken care of what are those big needs that might come out of the building fund. Uh, and so maybe that isn't as big of a concern as it should be, but 20 years is a long
022time to hamstring um, you know, six people sitting around trying to make decisions for our district. So >> I totally agree with that part of it. But I mean that's what gives me the biggest reservation is tying Cint Yong because nobody knows what the future holds. And like that's my I've said it before a previous meeting. You know 10 years from now our town's blown out as far as population and me. I mean I ask the question I mean how much can we absorb you know but before we have to add classrooms add teachers things like that but at the same time you know I think if that's the case and that means a positive growth in the community tax base and spreading some of those things out is that nobody has a crystal ball
023to be able to tell if those increase in increase growth actually increase in ber My other my other concern is I don't want to get a ball going [snorts] and then we find out we don't have no place. We have no place for the garage like we don't have any place for the garage and that changes the conversation. I mean, worst worst case scenario with the four stall garage, we put it on the corner lot, but we turned it into park key temporarily. I mean, I think that's your worst case scenario. Best case is we're able to come to an agreement with property owners here in the next couple weeks and then we have a permanent site for that garage. I agree. I think regardless something, I'm not going to let that go to waste.
024seems like a minor thing to talk about the rest of it, but not not to discredit. [clears throat] I think that the HVAC part is aer. Yeah, >> we have to update the HVAC in the next couple of years and whether we do it all next summer or over two summers working make that decision. But I think everybody in this room and and it would take anybody who had talked to in town would agree the HVAC piece is the the no-brainer part, but it's everything after that. I guess me personally, I could be comfortable leaving here tonight voting for everything on the timeline. HVAC, elementary, preK, FCS up until the competition gym. I feel maybe more discussion on that could do us good for as a community to to to keep, you know, everybody informed
025and they know a little bit what we're doing. Now, is that smart to do construction wise, you know, or or, you know, moneywise? I don't know. I mean, does anybody else feel that maybe that's the route we go? I guess I'll answer your construction question. I mean, it's I think you can do that up to a certain point. Once drawings and then in with certision of that, you've kind of lost some opportunity or ethic. If that makes sense. >> Yeah. Oh, I get >> What do you suggest communitywise? >> I just I mean I [clears throat] like I said it it just I it >> I don't >> I just feel uneasy with the comments that people were unaware of what we're doing and you know >> I don't think that's our >> I know.
026I get it. I get it. We've we've done everything that that we could possibly to >> put it out there. And I think maybe that's a copout excuse to somebody not going >> and especially after you've heard that now would be the night to come. >> I know. I know >> that this is actually frustrating to me especially with you know the phone call that I'm still getting today. >> I guess I you know I just I guess I know that opinion's out there. So I'm trying to >> I haven't heard that but >> yes I know I know this is like second item but one advantage to if it is deciding being decide to get forward and use construction manager I mean they could work alongside and done some estimates as like an option
027to prolong that decision a little bit if that makes sense rather than having hire Clark and N to design the entire thing either with or without and then you're kind of stuck with another decision to make. You know what I mean? >> So Justin, when you say no competition gym, that's still include or like the locker room. Would you still >> No, I mean anything? Yeah, that's the competition gym. I think I I guess I consider that to be the locker project. >> All everything on Yeah. Yeah. >> But I I mean I I think we're all just I mean I completely understand how this but you know the whole everything is is a need. I just and it was make the open up the rest of the school where everybody's tight and and time
028schedules. I mean I I'm fully on board knowing that that's probably the best for the school. I just I just don't think it's I just I just don't think we got we got a lot of you know it's a 50-50 backing in in the public. >> Yeah. And then when I come down to you know we we've talked about the bond election and so the fact that [snorts] we don't think it has you know even though bond elections have been pretty much 50/50 here in the in the state lately you know some communities are obviously getting them done. our our community is unique in that way. Um with having the the two schools here right in town um knowing a bond election probably wouldn't pass. You know that that might be our answer right there.
029I don't know. >> But I also wonder if any of this was up for bond if that would pass. >> I thought about that driving up here. Yeah, >> school blew down tonight in a storm. I don't think we'd get anybody, you know, I don't think we could pass a bond election, >> right? >> I don't think you put in preschool and HVAC. I mean I mean and and there's been other communities over the last year who had those exact same things in their bond and they fail. >> So I don't know that you know >> I know I know >> and and there and those are one school communities too. They're not the two school communities. So I'm not saying anything about >> so back to you know why [clears throat] are we you
030know why why are we here you know to best serve the community and and the future students of our district. Um so we said that the decision that we make tonight is to give you authority to go and get uh basically about drawings of project and they would obviously need to know what army job >> correct >> and that amount of money is basically you're you're you're committed you're going >> yeah I mean the funding you know what you have them draw. Um >> you attach the the gin to it and because the gin is being majority of the project then that's going to tack on the majority of the cost of the >> right. Yeah. >> Yeah. also four four clings and the FC sh and HVAC >> the elementary and the high school
031H track you is that thinking that part of this whole project or like to what I mean by that is like silly advocates route that will be developed is that not the route we would go for here you know what I'm saying like not be going to facility the advocates to to do? Probably not. If we were going to do everything, he'd probably just turn everything over to one >> because he's a construction manager here on site. Could the other they take lump to pack into >> track? Can I just see it? I'm I'm sitting here trying to think what other questions do I have? What are the things that do I feel need to be discussed or you know or asked in order to help me make [clears throat] a decision. So I don't
032want you to >> it's never going to be easy decision. We can have a thousand questions and it's still going to be this is this is probably going to be one of the parting decisions we make. Can you run >> It's a lot of money and it's a lot of time. Can you run down again um like where and I you know obviously whatever folds to it but um you know when we're looking at large projects that come out of our building fund like um where do we sit on on a lot of things that could potentially be drawn out of that that we wouldn't have ordered to pay for because we're paying on that instrument. search it. >> Why could we >> like we have our we have our roofs and we have our
033HVAC. Is there anything else that you know >> I I I don't know. I'm not on buildings and grounds. I don't know. >> I mean there could be a tornado. >> Yeah. Then you have you have insurance and stuff. >> Yeah. But and it's always extra expensive. There's always going to be something. I'm just wanting to make sure that there's what's on the schedule. What are we, you know, I think everything should be in tiptop shape. >> Yeah. I mean, we replaced all of our roofs at some point in 10 or 15 years and you're going to have to look at roofs, but I mean, we we did put 30-year roofs on all of our buildings, so should feel fairly comfortable there. But you never know. I mean, sometimes it's harsh winters and summers can
034deteriorate the light quicker than you think. And so, um, so you're you're going to want to levy 200,000 out of number additional funds every year to be able to set aside on top of whatever your lease purchase being. That is just so that the what if scenarios from uh you know when we looked at the numbers last month for example, you know, you did any fiveyear $16 million project to 1.2 million, you'd still want to levy to 1.4, >> right? >> You got that couple hundred,000 wiggle room. >> Mhm. Um, you know, depending upon what you guys decide to do, some things can be paid for out of the depreciation fund as well. You know, or we've had a good fiscal year right now, two months to go. Could we transfer potentially a million dollars
035from the general fund into the depreciation fund and pay for the elementary age back cash next? Yes. you know, and take two million out of the this project. We could so I mean that's an option. We can do tax anticipation notes. We can do I guess seven-year lease purchases, but we, you know, if you're want to do everything on the limbs, then the 20 probably the 25 year thing lease purchase is the way to go. Just to give you some wiggle room knowing that in 5 years if interest rates go down you get refinance it may cut 5 years off 25 years to 20 but initially while it's being built and not knowing with anything else that would come up I think you'd want to give yourself a little bit of breathing room the 25
036year route in a few years the bond payment will be off the books too for four years for four years and And that would open up some of that to correct. Uh you wouldn't necessarily need to levy into the QC pump anymore, you know, levying right at a4 million dollars a year. That would free up a4 million dollar year to levy into your building fund and say your QC, which would be my recommendation because your building fund has a lot less restrictions on how you do this stuff versus QCA. And so I think it'd be foolish to not do that. So it does give me support options and that could be used for either stuff that comes up or to pay it down to cory. Exactly. So yeah. So in four year you free up
037a4 million dollars a year tax. Hang [clears throat] on. I mean, I just I guess my thinking about the fact of, you know, the what Justin says, you know, as far as, you know, doing everything but the gym, I guess my only point to that would be is, okay, let's say we do a six-year lease purchase and do all the other stuff except for the gym. Wait, get that paid off. you know that but my my only problem with that I like that from the aspect of that it prevents us from having to take out such a model lease purchase but at the same time that $12 million gym in seven years is $17 million gym and then we're right back to the same question of Do we want to do a $16 million lease
038purchase for $1.2 million every year for 20 years? You know what I mean? It's like, so while I understand that reasoning because I've thought about it myself, God, it'd be nice to chew off a couple of these things that they could chew them off in a year or two. in a year or two. I mean, makes a difficult difference to you talking 13 14 instead of 17 like um I don't know. I guess I don't know what the right answer is. I I do have a little reservation about, like you said, tying up future boards for those things, but at the same time, I feel like there will also probably be change in circumstances if we have major things come up that is going to force us to grow that show from that. >> Yeah.
039And I'm all I'm always very acutely aware of the fact that we really have very little control over it's what the [clears throat] no control over what the legislature does or how our schools are actually funded and how we can continue to you know if this this funding mechanism could ever you is going to be available to us in the future. Um, I know that the push would be for every decision probably to go to a bond code and um, you know, and with our situation, I just don't think that that's that's helpful to our our our students and staff and everybody. But, um, I keep thinking this is what we have in front of us now and we can't control how we're going to be funded in five years or two years or how
040whatever. and so take advantage of um the position we're in right now to be able to do this. But um but yeah, I would say after all of my thinking over the course of the last, you know, 6 months that um it's all kind of come down to 20 25 years is a long time. [clears throat] And I don't think that there is a right decision. I think there's just the decision. I think that regardless of what decision we make, there's going to be people that are for and against it. So, it's just this is the decision that the board is going to make and we move forward from there. I think it's a right or wrong. >> And I really think it's it's pretty even for people that don't want us to do it
041and there's people that do, you know, Yeah. >> You damn if you do, you damn if you don't. One thing that really I guess resonates with me is that I've been with a lot of other school districts. It's the same the same exact conversation of every everyone I've been to. But one thing I think that is incredibly advantageous is the opportunity to address all those needs but not adding the tax. >> That's I think that's an outlier here. Right. Wish you had sold in a good spot. >> And I want to reiterate again that doing it through the building fund that taxpayers have a 30% credit on all that that taxable revenue school district. So >> it's not available in a >> and it's not available in a bond fund. Right. >> And I think
042that I think you're right. I think that we are in a very unique position and that most school districts who are talking about these types of projects are discussing them in the conversation of doing a bond which you know adds a lot of >> with the tax >> with a tax increase or you know you're increasing your levy and the fact that Dr. Danker has put us in a position where we have not increased our building fund in the last in the last decade [clears throat] and we've been able to add so many different things for our students and community use too is pretty incredible. So I think that you know this is just kind of another piece to that. I'm going to go ahead and um Is there anything else I would like to
043say? >> I don't want to sit here and talk in circles, but I don't No, >> I don't want to limit [clears throat] anybody saying, you know, or asking a question either. >> There will be another vote later on. I mean, if we vote for the the approved to go forward the drawings, we it there will be another process of approving the actual projects. I just want I just wanted to make that clear. >> Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. This is just giving Dr. Danker the authority to go and give their renderings of all of the different things that we would like to do. Um and I don't know how exactly we need to word it just as it's listed here agenda. >> It doesn't it doesn't say anything specific on buildings or anything. It's just
044>> it does have to replace the HVAC which we will be going to do regardless. So, okay. Then I'm going to go ahead and I will move to grant Dr. Danker authority to work with Clark Anderson to develop architectural and mechanical drawings for possible additions at both the Davis City Elementary and David City High School and to replace the HVAC and lighting. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Moved by seconding. Seconded by Donnie M. >> So does that not include gym then? >> That's just any and anything that >> Yes. It includes anything that would be happening at the high school. >> Okay. >> And elementary. So it's this is to do the renderings for any project available. >> Gotcha. But we're not making a decision. This is not voting on actually breaking
045ground. This is definitely what we're doing. This is just let's hit the plans. >> Yes. >> Um Casey, >> yes. >> I vote yes. Dustin, >> yes. >> Don, yes. >> All right, that passes 6. We'll move on. Discuss consider take action to a grant Dr. daker authority to contact potential construction manager at risk companies to interview with possible facility projects. >> You know, we haven't done a CM at risk before. So, I'd reached out to Tim and I'm going to lean on Clay a little bit. You guys see his response here. Um, you know, and so his recommendation would be that, you know, we reach out to Perry Law Firm because that's our law firm that represents us. Uh this helps send out an RFP uh request for proposals to different construction companies and
046then just obviously we'd have a pre pre-proposal meeting and then it does take three or four weeks to get responses review them narrow it down interview three or four and then select one. So you know my guess is that probably means you're making a decision at the August board meeting. Clay, what is that? >> That'd probably be pretty late. We guess >> late August. >> Yeah, probably late August >> because we usually have two board meetings in August anyway. So, usually the last once the third or fourth week of August is that >> that is that about the timeline? Yeah, you could squeeze it in the first, but it'd be you'd have to be pretty much. >> You do. Can you can you get like a cliffnotes version of this versus what we've done in
047the past benefits and disadvantages just one more time? So, >> yeah, >> the idiot account can hear. So what you guys have what's been done in the past traditional design bid build pretty much what everybody thinks about when they think about this process architect designs everything to every nut and bolt and blast out to everybody you get a number on bit day and that's that's your guy that's what you're rolling with. um it's much more black and white, more than stringent. The CMI risk process is basically procuring proposals based on qualifications similar like you would with an architect and usually there's a fee structure that they including with proposals. So there's some dollar component to it as well. Um, [clears throat] but that's usually done early when you throw on an architect and they work
048with the design team and the school district on estimates and similar to if you're looking at adding the gym and not they can evaluate it both ways on the spot uh for for real-time budgets. And then as you move into actual bid documents, it's an basically an open book policy. every subcontractor bid that comes in is shared with the entire school. So it's it's with it's very transparent and openly the other traditional you see one number one day and that's all you ever see. So you're kind of stuck with with who you got. Could be good, could be bad, just do the standards. Um those are the the big items. um >> because they're a um kind of a kind of a cycle of how districts use or the way that they go to design
049the you know >> one way or the other. Is there a cycle of what's good, what's bad depending on you know >> usually larger projects are construction manager risk because of um just the added level of uh difficulty that it can bring. Um, and then also other owners appreciate being able to have more of a decision in who they're working with. Um, and also have full full visual to all bits and everything that comes in. It's it's more of a collider effort. the design been built lately has been more of a smaller uh drill kind of cookie cutter type project. Um like if for example if we were just contemplating just like just the preschool alone that that would more traditionally fall in or like a design build. I' I'd say probably the big things
050that come to me uh with what we're talking about that lean towards CM would be want to be with you leaving at some point or after the project has started. the HVAC renovation being part of it just has some higher level of complexity and could be phasing and different things that just need to be collaboratively worked through and and some of the other things in evaluating different components of the project of allowing everybody to get real time feedback on truly what what you'd save if you don't do it this way versus that. I was going to so CM probably involve board hands-on being involved in more decisions with that beat. Was that going to be like in board decisions or is that going to be Dr. Dayham decisions when it comes to subcontractors with and
051stuff like that? So uh typically it's direct working with the superintendent but it's often that facility is involved with maybe some of the larger parts of it maybe not every single map and bolt but >> so like the your buildings and d your buildings and grounds committee would be >> yep >> and as far as your question of the bids um how that typically works is um for example HVAC you get five biders. Everyone is laid out and we can uh it's recommended as the lowest responsible bidder. So there's still like the competitive matrix that you know what I mean? So it's not just randomly picking you got one that's like one that's a million dollars less than the other four because they were hurtable and they had a fab wrap sheet. That's also the
052for client you can have that opportunity to discuss like this that there's no way this should cost what it is. >> Right. >> So is it usually one person per company or is it multiple people when it's a construction manager like that? Like do you have just one face when you >> um there's you deal with one person? >> It's a team but I mean every company is different. Um, usually there's a there's a point of contact here the store like I mean there's there's a whole team. It takes a drive to put together. How early would you get them involved? I mean if we start working with Clark Anderson but we don't see him at rest till the end of August. I think the the first part where you see the value in that
053would be the first update in Clark and Henderson. So like moving forward with them, they're still going to have some time to start doing some investigative some just some design work. >> Correct. Um, and then that they what and I've worked with Clark and here's some they'll do like a schematic design which is like just call it 25% done and they do like a 60% done and 100%. Each one of those benchmarks is where you you'd want like a full budget update that checks what the market's doing and commodities workforce. So you get a couple different chances throughout to move a change. >> Yeah. >> So what they're what we just voted on and [clears throat] giving Dr. Authority work with them. They're basically just going to be doing that bare bones. They're not doing
054the full out. >> Well, they they wouldn't stop and but they wouldn't I mean there's benchmarks that they get to. >> Yeah. >> And they have the construction meeting >> that they meeting with them >> check, right? I did that. >> Whereas whereas the other way I'm assuming there's when it completion >> correct sending it out >> to that again. So it sounds to me like potentially for for a cost savings probably the manager at risk because you can evaluate those things throughout maybe lock things in earlier >> like that. Is that correct? >> Yes. Yep. And having exactly having a construction manager you had a like I think the example I brought up last meeting was steel had seen some recent long we times and changes and having someone really you could work with
055the design team to get enough information to just dip that out get your likes and mic. So is there a ballpark figure on what CN at rest chart? I mean is it a certain percentage of the project? >> It's usually a percentage and there has been uh you said Derek or period is through the school works. He's his typical proposals not only talk about just the feed, but he'll have the construction managers put together like the they call it effort, which is the amount of people that they would dedicate solely to your project. So you can we see what you're getting. So if you have one one company that says I'm only going to have a guy out here one day a week, another guy that has two out here every day of the week.
056Those those reverse differences, you know. >> Yeah, it's usually percentage and a lot of times that isn't too stems. >> I guess the the con Sam CM is it it's not the easiest for just to explain to someone off the street. It's foreign or something. It's not really and that sometimes just create squashings. That's probably the biggest con I guess sending her way to do but it's been around and draft for 20 years. Do you think being more involved in the process with the CM money they saved there is outset the cost of having the CM? uh that's project by project you know um that's the what I've seen is the value is when there are larger issues that come up the collaborative approaching this it's easier to find better solutions like and and then
057also you're getting the CML so he gets a longer time to plan for the whole thing a lot of time to design bid build Um it's it's bare bones. They they only have a number for what they were told to. Everything else is kind of tough. I mean this it is what it is. >> It's not like a direct answer to you. But >> so it kind of depends on the the flow the job you depending on what problems when they arise, >> right? >> They their value, >> right? I would say. So you kind of don't want them to be >> but we all know how >> how this last one went >> how things go >> right this would be a little bit more I think complicated with the different sites >> I
058would say that probably the the biggest savings that you'd see is usually in delays um just that pre-planning allows kind of contingencies to be put in place if if X doesn't come to fruition that when design It's this is our plan and he comes with a change that they have plan. So that's not the money >> because delays delays are moving. >> Yeah. >> Not that not that that's the way it always is or has to be but that is something that come. >> Yeah. Because we've had good luck with design been built. We've done three projects like year which had negligible change orders and so but they've also been the largest project with seven and a half or eight million of this is twice in size and so do you have any input or
059advice for or where you might not be or will not be around to see >> well I don't know you not having been through the CM risk I mean some of it makes sense obviously with a new person that that Clay said, I don't know how you evaluate whether or not you get your minds or not. I I don't know. I don't know how you gauge that necessarily, you know, because in terms of delays and there's nothing we're doing here that has to be done by a certain time, you know, like we don't have to have the gym by >> start school >> June of 29. that for some reason it took until we're in August or September of 29. But on the, you know, flip side, it's nice to have somebody overseeing everything on
060your team. So, it's >> But yet the superintendent will constantly be working with the >> Yeah. I mean, I was >> I just feel like you I mean, you were definitely the CM on a lost project and there were a lot of times that, you know, we had to get things fixed or you would catch something and >> I just as long as they're able to >> Yeah. And I and I agree with Clay that this is a little more complicated project than the last >> Do the majority of your schools get a CM or like they >> not not every but >> do you see things running smoother with the school that do or do you not see the difference much because you're kind of not in that >> um or you know what
061I'm saying I >> want to give you a good answer. Um >> I I see them as running smoother just based off of the ability to plan and talk through >> more experience >> the need well the needs and wants of the school. >> Okay. But the I mean probably to the point you made past projects I mean some of the maybe the heartburn that comes up in a design bid build I would say probably doesn't always come to your board or this level either. >> Personally I feel like >> we need one with the transition of them moving out with somebody else moving in. I feel like Yeah, I would hate to put all of that on to a new person when they're >> like, yeah, trying to now transition into a new job,
062a new district, and you know, and then also, hey, I mean, they'll still be obviously involved in it, but be take a lot of their time, but it's not something that they >> Yeah. micromanage. Yeah. So talk to me about pricing a little bit like you do the structure manager risk, you know, evaluating as you go, locking things up, but when you get to the end, I mean like the design bill, it's 15 million, it's 16 million like that. I mean, how soon do you So you get to the end of the project, we think it's going to be this much. I mean, can we still can we still go over that amount based on things that change or is it kind of lock in a cap or >> I would say it's it's locked
063in at a similar per similar way that a design big will that there is a guaranteed maximum price that comes in from the CM that that doesn't mean the price can't change. For example, like if you want to add a change, right? add another bay of glaciers or >> I thought you were gonna say it could get lower. Well, you can too because >> uh the CMRS how that works with the GMP there's usually a contingency whereas it's contingency local number and all savings goes back where design build if things go great and quick and that's that's 100% my retention back >> but so design bill says it's done in actually only cost him 14. You're still paying 15. >> Yeah. >> This scenario goes great. >> But I also think like and you correct
064me if I'm wrong like design build. you get companies that will apt, you know, they'll be higher in their price because of things they got going on or they I mean they could potentially pad that design bill a little bit probably more so than the construction manager at risk or knowledge. >> Um I mean the design design bid build that you're going to get the number that that the market is going to give you. Uh it's there's there's definitely instances where that could happens. Um I would probably doubt it. I mean not, but where we're located, I think you'll get a lot of um competition either way you go. >> Um it won't surprise me if you get upwards of 10 10 companies at best with visit proximity. I think there'll be a lot of
065competition either way. Um, usually where the the risk comes in is a lot of times that number is set before the final design is done. >> So, it does require to that construction manager to project some aspect. I mean, you don't have to do it that way, but that's usually where a lot of the risk comes in. So if Clark Anderson is 80% done with the drawings and said here's what it's going to be at the end of the day then the school says set yeah you set your set your number now but that's principal number eight there be contingency still hit anytime but hope I explained that wrong. Yeah, I believe the questions. >> I will make the motion to grant Dr. Danker the authority to contact potential construction managers at risk companies to
066interview for the fost facility project. >> Second by Casey, seconded by Marcus. >> Yes. >> Donnie, >> yes. I vote. Yes. Justin, >> yes. >> Jason, >> yes. >> Um, a quick quick question that those interviews are done by Dr. Dinker. They're done by the buildings and grounds. They're done by the board. >> There's a state statute. I think it needs to be >> solve the state. >> There's a community member. Usually it's a somebody in the industry in the community board superintendent and >> it's all standard. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Look, Perry Law Firm helped us again make sure we do it by the book. >> But if we get through this process and decide doesn't >> feel the right way to go, we can still go back and >> sign it. >>
067Correct. because we have not approved the CM credit. >> Okay. All right. That concludes our business for behind. We'll be back same time, same place in two weeks. >> I'll make the motion to >> do minus Donnie. Donnie wants uh yep. Casey made a motion to adjurnn the meetings. >> Second by second. All those in favor? >> I. All those opposed. >> 801. Yep. >> Stop on Bridge