001like to call a special board meeting to order. It is March 4th, a little after 6 o'clock. Uh first item on the agenda is roll call. >> Member Bellowos >> present. >> Member McGawan >> present. >> Member Smith >> here. Member Papis >> here. >> Member Horn >> here. >> Member Anderson >> here. >> Member Colbert >> here. >> Member Graassy >> here. >> Member White >> here. >> Member Oliver >> here. >> Member Campbell >> here. >> Member Battis. >> Member Gregoire >> here. >> We have a quum. >> Great. Um, please join me in the pledge of allegiance. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Is there anyone from
002the public wishing to address the board? I'm going to forgo reading the the comment just because I know that there's no one here, but there is a specific paragraph I'm supposed to read, but if it's okay with everybody to take time, we'll move on. >> Um, I'd like to make a motion we enter non-public under RSA 9183A. Second, >> motion discussion I don't remember. No discussion. Um, that is a roll call vote. So, >> member Battis, >> yes. >> Member Smith, >> yes. >> Member Gregoire, >> yes. >> Member Horn, >> yes. >> Member Bellowos, >> yes. >> Member Grassi, >> yes. >> Member Oliver, >> yes. >> Member Anderson, >> yes. >> Member Colbert, >> yes. >> Member White, >> yes. >> Member Papis, >> yes. >> Member Campell, >> yes. >> Member McGawan,
003>> yes. >> Thank you. Is everybody >> take two? >> Yep. Shall we start all over? >> So, it's going to be 913 to C L. >> Uh, I'd like to make a motion we enter re-enter non-public under 91A 3 Roman 2 paragraphs C, E, and L. >> Second, please. >> Okay. Um, we need to have a roll call. >> Second by Katie. Um, do we need a roll call for that? Oh, we do. Um, Katie, >> yes. >> Sue, >> yes. >> Shnie, >> yes. >> Jerry, >> yes. >> Sam, >> yes. >> Sam, >> yes. >> Matt, >> yes. >> Kelly, >> yes. >> Eric, >> yes. >> Lisa, >> yes. >> Ann, >> yes. >> Sam, >> yes. >> Nick, yes. >> Thank you guys. Sorry. >> Thanks for making sure we're
004doing it the right way. >> Thank you. public. I'd like to make a motion that we seal the minutes under 915. >> Second. >> Motion by me, second by Katie. Please uh I guess all those in favor discussion real quick. >> Sure. >> I just know that there's some new 91A guidance that's out. Um I went to a webinar about it and it's saying that now the public can review whether like the minutes remain sealed and just let everybody know that that can even if you go vote to see them that that could very well come up to like an argu >> they have to be reviewed every 10 >> 10 >> we're supposed to decide whether we want Would we seal it? Do we have to say for a time period? >> I don't
005think so. It's We're supposed to keep track of when they're sealed and after 10 years we look at them. So, all right. There's a motion on the table. Any other discussion? All those in favor? >> Opposed? >> Okay. >> Um other one. >> Yeah. Excuse me. >> Um, we mentioned that well, we moved our meeting from Tuesday night to Wednesday night next week. So, there's time to see finance. The mayor suggested that if you'd like to be on the agenda, you could call and get the school board. If you wanted to form a a statement to make >> as a group instead of individuals, we could. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's up to all of you guys. That's While I speak individually, you think >> you're going to be there. >> Yeah, >> it
006saves time if we speak as a group versus everybody going up for their >> speak volumes. If all of us are there for sure and we're all either seen or >> Oh, yeah. Tuesday. >> Yeah. >> Or at least as many of us as can make it. >> I will try. Tuesdays are very hard. Childare wise >> it would be Wednesday. Oh no, Tuesday. >> Our meeting got moved to Wednesday. >> Sorry. It's been >> a long week. >> I forgot was married. We should talk about the Oh, that's nice that you reach out for congratulations. Um, >> do you I don't think so because I think that's in the policy. But if I'm I'm open if anyone else wants to speak, they certainly can, but I'm happy to make a statement. >> Whatever you
007all prefer. >> I I would prefer it coming. I think it would be a lot stronger if it came from you with a detailed summary. If we could be on the agenda, that would be really great. And if as many people can stand behind you as possible, I think that would show in numbers. I don't think we need to repeat it over and over again. And I think in that way we can make a much more calculated statement of here's what's to come. Much more organized way of saying this is what we're looking at and the impact that it's having on our kids. That's really >> Jared. Do we have an issue with all of us being at a meeting and not having any notice as a meeting if all of us show up? >>
008So no. So, if you are going to attend the the city council, we will post it as a meeting because anytime you get a quorum of this together, it should be posted as a meeting. >> So, what night do you do grocery shopping? >> If we just bump into each other, that's okay. But if we all go as a group with the intention of going to school because you're discussing school board business. So, we'll post it. That's fine. We can post it as a a meeting. >> Okay. >> Is it a meeting or no meeting? Well, we you're you're in public discussing school board business, which is the budget, in with another public body. So, there's no harm in posting it just as a as a meeting. >> One agenda item and it will be
009discussion with city council regarding the school budget. >> What is So, we're going to go there. We're going to make whatever statement we're going to make, but do we have a plan of what exactly we're I mean, we made some very broad brushes last night, but we don't have specifics that we want to we don't have a dollar volume. >> We don't have exactly what we're we want to ask for over and above the, you know, PD stuff. We So, and then honestly, I've been talking about it. I know. And Mr. Grassi is not the only one that can talk to Mr. Mr. grassy every now and then, you know, some sort of plan like a three, you know, what are we trying to accomplish this year, next year, the year after, and all I
010think would be well received. So, I don't know where we are with that. Well, you can bring up two points that I um I figured I everyone seemed to agree with what Nick commented on. So, I was gonna refer to some of Nick's comments >> um and and work with him to sort of craft a statement. Um and the other kind of focused on um uh I think one of the things that I I have promised everybody but we haven't acted on is is setting board goals and I think that that's something else I haven't lost sight of. It's just this budget is like overwhelming everybody right now. >> I I know but it's kind of also all tied at the same time, >> right? I mean, even if we're having some broad strokes and
011get, believe me, I'm as overwhelmed as anybody. I'm not belittling that for heaven's sakes. >> But we do have the um district uh mission >> statement that we can fall back on, which does say, you know, provide options for kids and and provide um a well-rounded education include music and theater and art and sports and this and that and what have you. So, um there we can fall back on that as well. Does that make sense? >> No. >> Yeah, it does. >> So, if we start cutting programs and teachers that it's going to affect our fiveyear strategic plan. I had Nick's hand up first and then >> I mean I could obviously I'm speaking for myself here but to me the ask is that we are able to fund our schools as if it
012were to this year so maintain status quo for a year. Uh this was sprung on the city. Uh this is not the state didn't just cut the funding for our schools. The state cut funding that comes to this city that is to support our schools. And so because of that, we're scrambling now. We're talking about closing a school building that we weren't closed planning on closing, which is also ends up likely ends a program that we weren't planning on ending. And also cutting dozens of staff and to the point that Mr. Pap made yesterday, that might have happened over the course of 8 to 10 years earlier during his time on the board, but not in one year, you know. So this is too much for a school district to to take all at once.
013And if if this is going to be our new reality that we're going to operate down a magnet school uh and down 30 staff members, we we need more than a year to figure out how we're going to do this. And that's not to short change the work that the administrators did to figure out how to do this, but they had to figure out this out really fast, too. You know, like I I I know that's a huge ask because we'd be asking the city for $4.5 million. And and I can only imagine where that comes from, you know? I don't know. But, uh, I'm not going to reiterate what I said yesterday. The squeeze has been going on for a long time and now, uh, you know, we're just there's nothing left to squeeze
014in. >> A couple things. So, the Magnus School, we got to be cautious of that as far as keeping the program because we already know that the DOE is putting us in a position where we can't keep that program. Um, as far as closing the school, was that on the agenda? No, absolutely not. But the program itself, that wasn't on the agenda. But we've got to be careful as as far as arguing to keep the program if the DOE is telling us we can't keep the program. Um, and then the other thing that I would say is whatever you put into your address, I would would it be appropriate based on the conversation that you had with the mayor as far as the money that he was willing to put forward if we your market
015specific towards was it >> PD? >> Yeah. Um would that be appropriate for him to bring up next? >> I I think I think so because I met with Katie Ambrose and with um M. They came over to my office and we were talking about health insurance budget things. So of course what you came up with and you know their advice was yeah go forward with what you you know what you what you think you should you know that's kind of so you know certainly you could look at doing the same thing as one time on using undesated funds and using $300,000 for that that doesn't really necessarily help the you know one time funds but it's a stop gap measure they said or you could ask for that amount over the tax cap the
016city council make that consideration So, I guess one question, should I be making a case to >> go over the tax cap by $4.5 million? Because that's a pretty hefty ask. >> For what it's worth, we wouldn't be making this ask if year after year after year after year they haven't been forcing the district to come in under the tax cap. >> Right. >> I think we should go in order. >> Sorry, can I just say >> No, I'm out of order. >> No, you're not out of order, Nick. I'm just saying I think we need to go on the order of questions and follow >> um I just wrote down Lisa, Jerry, Katie, Kelly. >> They were before me. >> Okay. I didn't see >> I don't know. It's been up for a little
017bit. My fingers are >> Go ahead. >> Um so, how often do we do the budgets? Is it every single year? >> Um how many millions do we give back to the city every single year? >> It varies. Um, >> either way, there's there's always money going back to the city from the school budget. >> There's always some. And this is the first year that we're asking for help. >> So, I would say it's the first year, but >> Okay. Well, >> then I don't know. >> Um, >> because if we're always but if we are always giving money back to the city, >> like, isn't there something there? Like, we need significant help. The money comes out of a fund. >> Yeah, I know. The pie. >> It comes out of a fund and
018when we have leftovers, it goes back in. It's like your dad, you know? It's like the money goes back to dad. >> My dad didn't give me money. >> Well, >> you can count on that. >> But it's there's a there's a there's a an operations, if you will, how we get money from the city. >> Yeah. >> And when it's left over, and we have no way of knowing what's left over because of several >> until after the budget and everything's done. Well, it's true. One year we had five kids move here from L Massachusetts, all special ed kids. In November, $100,000. The students were already in placement. That was our budget was done in July. >> We didn't have $100,000. We had to go to the city and ask for a supplemental. >>
019So, it may sound like we've handed thousands of millions of dollars back every year, but it's not always that much. Okay? >> Sometimes it's very close. I think last year was a very close year. It wasn't much. It was a million last year. This past year, we gave back a million, >> but still wasn't what we need. >> It was over a million. >> 1.3 or something >> then. I don't know. >> I think that's mainly because of >> But still, it's money that went back to the city, >> but we have to have it in the budget. you can spend some of it, but budgeting on vacancy savings is a bad idea. If positions continue to be unfilled year after year, that is a position control issue. >> Well, that I I would disagree
020because if if we have students with IEPs that say we need to have a case manager with certain number of case managers, we can't not budget for that. We have to have money in the budget. If we can hire a case manager, we're going to hire a case manager. It's a matter of whether or not they're available to be hired. And if we don't have them, unfortunately, the case managers that we have are going to have to kind of fill in the gaps and and take on more. >> We pay for contacted services >> or we pay extra for >> but we still have the money for the position in our budget because we intend on having that position. >> Right. But I'm saying that I has any analysis been done to see what positions
021were made unfilled year after year? Only certain amount are are budgeted for special education. Not all of those vacancies year after year are required positions. >> Note that it's hard to find math teachers. We find >> just started as position control manager in the middle of last school year, last fiscal year. So I don't I think they've been on the job for a year. >> Why? That's what I'm saying. Why Why does this just now? >> It just It's just mind-blowing to me. I'm sorry. >> Do you mean why are we just getting position control or why do we have a position? >> Why are we just now? I think that was why Andy brought it was like we don't know how much money we're gonna we have to work with until it's too late
022to spend it. So now we're tracking that a lot more effectively >> so that we can do anytime analysis on data >> right there on data. >> All right. So I have um Lisa did you want to speak? And then I have Jerry. >> Yes. Uh so about the DOE saying that the magnet can't continue. Um I just want to you know specify that they say that the lottery itself can't continue. Um there is still school choice available. I don't know if that option has been explored. Um you know where but I think admission in that case just has to be transparent. There has to be a process to making a transparent admissions process and Mr. Gone you can correct me if I'm wrong. Um because I believe school choice is still an option for
023that program. How would you choose students though for >> that that sounds >> you could keep the lottery open for special education students? >> It has to be or maybe not a lottery but as long as there's a choice. >> Yeah. When Nate Green called me he said it wasn't the program that had to close, it was the lottery. >> So I said, you know, could we keep the positions open, those spots open for special education? And he said yes. He said, "It's just you got to get rid of the lottery. The program can stay open. Just the lottery has to go away." >> So, let me ask you a question because I've struggled this with myself. When you when you folks say program, what are you talking about? >> Like a theme school. >>
024I know. But when you say the program, I I literally and Dr. Nichols and I No, I know. But Dr. Nichols and I go back and forth because we've heard many people stand at those podium and talk about this Maple Street program. And neither of us including Sarah can define what are you talking about. We used it's the same curriculum as all the other elementary schools. The teachers receive the same PD. The only thing that we can see that's different is they are a different calendar. >> They're measured by the same >> test of learning which they gather kids from every class. It's not just first grade. >> But they could do that anywhere. That's not a program, right? That's just an instructional strategy that could be applied in any elementary school >> and the
025French every day was part of the >> Yeah, maybe doing a foreign language thing like it's not. >> So to answer that question very simply, we the district not before you have referred to it as the program, right? >> Liam was part of that program. It's always been referred to by the district as the Maple Street program. So if that's the wrong terminology, it's on us. And the biggest difference is I I wrote a list down of things to try if this, you know, goes down. I'll be honest with you, there's like morning meeting, you know, that they do. There's the kids, you know, you had breakfast. You could come in as an adult and and have breakfast with the kids, which is kind of cool when they're in elementary, especially when they're not, you
026know, sure of themselves. There was the Christmas uh which is all Hold on. which is all stuff that very easily if we just figure it out, get out of the way and engage the P PTA could easily spread. But because it's and this is what I've never understood. The biggest thing was the 20 days which was everybody got hung up on and it's been argued about in that in my mind but there was the you know the be the boundless exploration and that was basically a club or well le said it's almost like a club you b like Mrs. Graassy said you get all the kids together for all the grades and the really cool thing is it does teach leadership. We had that one email but it's exactly how it works. you know, Jerry,
027you're in charge of, you know, teaching everybody chess and all of a sudden, you know, Jerry's in fourth grade and he's kind of doing so you develop certain skills you might not in the other one, but you could easily and that was very much why my question to Dr. Nichols was because I what? Yes, we could. Okay. So, even if that that school closes down, some of these things are easily transferable. And I'll be truthful with you and nobody's going to like this. I really have because it hasn't had the teeth to do it. I almost feel like there because there's no evidence. As long as it is there, it's always going to just be there where if it closes down, maybe we finally all care enough to put the effort into making sure it
028spreads. And ain't nobody going to like that. But we can all sit here and talk about all the different stuff too, but we still got that the building to discuss and trying to get money prevented maintenance and what we could put the money, you know, putting the money. There's a lot to it. And I get up and and you know, it's either way, but I that all the the pro it's called a program cuz we have is really the simple. I've been around it from nearly the beginning. And like I said, there's the the big factors just like she's talking about. It's that most of it could be us allowing like how do you for a larger school like Chamberlain, how do you get parents to be able to just roll in for breakfast, you
029know, without being a security issue, but that's workable. We as a board just got to get out of the way, have the admins buy into it and have the PTA work with them and get these programs going. In my mind, I've thought far too long about this. >> That was the >> the goal originally, but it it was always there. So everybody always hoped to get in and then nobody put in the extra effort. >> Well, we didn't have the money. No. >> Well, there's that, too. I I get it. But but again, this is where I say in that everybody was focused on the 20 days with the extra effort, but there are bits of the program that don't require 20 extra days to implement. I I feel in order to be good and
030to be a spe, you know, and again, you know, you can get into a bunch of things, but that's in my opinion why it's called a program and what people mean. We gave it that name. We as a a community >> yeah their days are different than >> there isn't anything that couldn't that has to happen there that as Sam said could just these are just practices could be >> any any at a moment so it doesn't have to only be at that's what I think >> right >> part of the discussion's always been is why do we say no only this particular group gets that why isn't that stuff available to every student if it's that wonderful right it should be right >> but the fight was always at the board level every year
031at budget those 20 days $60,000 and we had board members who said if we can't do it for all we can't do it for some and we got to close it down and there it was always a major fight for at least five years it was a major fight at budget time and those of us on the board that were friends weren't speaking to each other for a while you know and >> but again it was it was that like I said I I I called it intestinal fortitude it was just a will the will in my mind >> it wasn't a big enough >> we going to get back on track Jerry Kelly and T >> um you know to Nick's point about you know the money where's going to you know we got
032to find the money you know the city that money is going to come from the taxpayers that's there is no fat of the bone in this town this city there's the police don't have it the fire doesn't have it public works doesn't have it if we want that money that's that's going to increase everybody's taxes again and so we better be if we're going to make that decision we better be damn well ready to make sure we're going to then defend that to our neighbor neighbors that their taxes are going up 4 and a.5 million. I think, you know, looking at at the touring maybe I I just can't imagine waiting for that bomb to go off in there. There's a lot of issues in that building. I don't see that building continuing. That's just
033my opinion. I said it last night. That building is waiting to come come undone in some capacity. Whether it's plumbing, heating, um electrical, whatever they ADA bathrooms, there's nothing there. I I don't see it. I'm concerned about the equity for the rest of those students in our in our uh schools that they're not getting those 20 extra days. And how do we afford the 20 extra days for all of our employees? I don't see that happening. I don't even see them wanting to do it. These teachers can't wait for, you know, July 14th to come around. My wife's one of them. So, you know, I get it. >> She's going to hate me if I said that. We are we are >> dude when I said July oh god July should you kill me. Yeah,
034no one wants to extend this out and and so I think we need to come up with a plan for a specific dollar amount and I don't think four and a half million is that number. >> I don't think they >> I don't think so. Why? But I don't even want to be asking for it. I don't want to sit there, you know, I I want to be transparent. I want to be responsible. Our primary responsibility is our students, but we also have to be concerned about our neighbors. >> All right. So, I have um Kelly Katie, I'm gonna make a statement and then make some >> um do we have a quorum going before you post it? So, we have a forum going >> Tuesday night. >> Yeah. >> Folks can tell me now.
035>> How many of you are planning to go? >> Yeah, we got four. >> Yep. >> Okay. I just wanted >> my turn. Um, so after going through the Maple School, um, I've only ever really been in the Reach and East Rochester and now Maple. I mean, I went and voted in Salmon Falls and I the the new school. Um, I when you're looking at it with just the goggles or glasses of the aesthetic of the school, I would love to bring some of that into the other buildings. Like, it's colorful, it's warm, it's inviting, it's it's not like I don't know. I was just I loved looking at that school and I feel like if I were a kid I would learn really well in not a beige classroom and there's affirmations everywhere. If
036there's a way to just even bring some of that into the other buildings would make a really good change and difference. But when you're looking at the cosmetics of that building >> I wouldn't. >> She went in the wall. I went I crawl I went through the crawl space. I looked under there. The sewer line and the water line are right next to each other and that's disgusting if either one of those bursts and that's not uh the get his name again. >> Rob. >> He was like that's not like they're supposed to be minimum like three feet apart and they are buddy buddy. that's there. >> And there there's there's wires and cords all clumped and draped on over everything. There's the corrosion of pipes. There's >> it's it's it's a it's a it's
037a mess down there. >> Went down there, too. Yes, he did. >> So, he saw it and it is >> um >> bad. I just have one quick thing to share, but I want to make sure that we're focused on Tuesday. >> Yes. Sorry. and budget and what what statement are we making um on Tuesday? Um, as far as city city's budget, when I was talking with the mayor over the last couple weeks, actually, um, this, as if any of you have driven on city streets in Rochester, you know that they're not exactly in the best of shape. And that's because the city has only put $1 million a year into paving into the paving budget when there should have been $3 million in every year. So we've only been paying for onethird of what
038was required for our pavings for 15 years. So we're 15 years times two because we're only paying for um onethird of of what we should be paying. So we're really like 30 years behind in our haven in the city of Rochester is what it adds up to. So I know that that's a priority for the for the mayor. I don't know where he intends to find money to increase it. We get to that part. Um but that's also a priority because everybody drives the streets in Rochester um as well. So we need to be cognizant of that. But at the same time, you know, we are the school board. We do we have aircraft control of our schools and that's that's our our goal and our goal. Um, so they're going to get inundated with
039a lot of requests because I know public works is asking for more, the police are asking for more, fire is asking for more, we're asking for more. So we're in a tough spot, but they're going to be in a tough spot too for the next three months. Um, so you know, at this point, I'd love to hear ideas of what exactly could we ask for and Lisa next. Oh, my question was um was pretty quick. What accounts besides the loss of advocacy? What's making up the other $10 million deficit? >> Uh increased costs. Um there's insurance, there's increased salaries because of contracts. Um >> can we get that line item please? >> We got it. We have the >> binder. It's in the >> I say the binder. I know I'm new. I see the
040binder. >> That might be Arabic or Latin to me. And I'm sorry I don't know those languages. Is there any way that we can get an easier version to really I mean I've thumb through that. Thumb through it. Thumb through it. Like I can't even tell from the binder how much out of district is. I'm looking for how much I'm spending combined in transportation. that kind of thing. >> So, transportation in is in special services if I'm not mistaken. And if you open it up um is it transportation >> um when we're looking at um say special ed for like how much are we spending out of district? >> Yeah. >> Um that is in special services. >> Well, you also have a you have a finance committee meeting tomorrow. I'm certainly glad to ask
041Adriana to just do a >> right. It seems like that may be a better use of time if I had more night to just do a quick little primmer that way because you might have questions with the rest of the board doesn't if we have five contracts, five unions and no one ever negotiates flat or down. So every year you know you're going to have that cost increase on every budget. that doesn't go, you know, it's for me it's the bananas. It's I said to someone today, you want me to put it really simply? When I was a young mother trying to feed five children on a very limited budget and the price of bananas went from 29 cents up to 49 cents, I just swore every time I went to the grocery store and
042I was not happy till bananas come back down to 29. They've never come back down to 29 cents at all. You know, it's the bananas. It's bananas. Everything goes up. If you in your life can manage a budget that stays level and doesn't increase, you're lucky. >> It's referred to as sticky inflation. >> Well, it's the bananas. >> Shnie, go ahead. I got >> So, to go off of your question to us. Um, I agree with Nick Sediments with the four and a half million, but I I get that we can't like we're not going to get it. We, you know, it doesn't make sense to to me at least to ask for four and a half million because I do think they're going to want to say like we need to see you are
043trying to to cut some costs and we know the expense of the Maple Street building. So, just thinking about it, if we close Maple, which we obviously haven't made a decision about that, um, you know, we're looking at 2.6 just based off the the rough numbers we we've given. Um, we could ask them for 2 million in hopes to get one. We could ask them for one in hopes to get 500,000. I think any extra that they're willing to give us would be beneficial because then we can put that toward um in the PD fund for our teachers that is getting depleted because of rearranging positions to not cut positions. But I we definitely need to be asking for more than the $300,000 um for sure. So, I think we should go a little higher
044than what we want because then they're going to go lower than what we tell them. I would I would say agree with you and say too and and where they'll save our staff. We don't we don't get rid of another building. We're saving the city from that. >> But we're public meeting or being Sam. I'm sorry I missed you. >> Uh Shnie pretty much took exactly what I was going to say. I mean I think that we should be um realistically looking at the amounts that we're going to um be asking for. And I think Shaunie's right. I think that if we try to go in for 2 million, anything that we can recoup from there is positions and PD and things like that that we could potentially recover. But I I think that those
045numbers keep down >> and 1 million would be about 10 staff people >> roughly. Yeah. >> Um Nick, I'm sorry Eric and then Jerry then. Um so just a question for superintendent. What would be an appropriate figure for us to be asking >> that would help with what you need for staff students? Can I can you back up your question? I just It's the same thing. I guess I would ask for a direction on what you think, not the doll figure in essence the doll figure. What are the priorities that we need to bring back? I think the PD is certainly one of them. Making sure we can say position. I'd like to go in there with a finite number and be able to say here's what we're asking for and here's what the dollar
046amount is. If it's 1.6 6,357,000 whatever. >> So, so the balance I think is and I think many of you touched on there is a balance that has to be struck between saying we want everything >> and being fiscally responsible and recognizing that the vast majority of people that are paying the bills to support schools don't have children in schools. These are people that I think you had said yesterday that these people are fixed income. These are your neighbors. These are folks. So, you know, we do have a responsibility to spend our dollars wisely. So many of the reductions that the principles made, they really made recognizing that this is something that we can do without that. It will have a minimal impact on the quality of the education. Um the thing that we couldn't
047get around was that professional development because many of those positions got pushed into the grants which means professional development get pushed out. So absolutely I would say money that supports professional development, money that supports um the path finders, you know, teachers coming in on Saturdays, the stipens for for teacher leaders, that money and I would say that the other thing which seemed to be a sentiment from not only the board but the community was um maintaining the best that we could with the elementary music program. So I would say if you were going to look at something I would say okay let's maintain our elementary music program the to the highest standard possible and maintain our professional development. There is a reality that and I think some of you said it you reduced the number
048of classrooms and you did not reduce the number of personnel. There is some right sizing that's occurring in this in this budget and in this process that is not horrible that we do have some people that you kept the positions and then we're kind of finding things for some people to do because they we don't have the number of classes that they need to cover for you know the specials wonderful but you and I both know they cover preps >> when you have more specialists than you have needs for preps what are those people that doing what are they teaching? So we do have a number of times where we're finding things. So there is some right sizing that's occurring when the principles are making these reductions. That's okay. That is okay. Our our enrollment
049has dropped significantly over the number of years. So there is some that that's a natural downsizing that's that occurs. But if we were going to say, here's what I would recommend that we do to really maintain the momentum of the school district, that professional development, the work that the that Dr. Nichols and her team is doing is really valuable work. And the way we get that done is to continue to support that through professional development, support the instructional coaches. Um, and then I would say that, you know, maintaining the the elementary music program. So, you know, if we said, "Okay, let's say we want, you know, $500,000 for professional development." Dr. Nichols did put together a budget that that was $300,000 that said, "This is what I need to continue that." Um, would you say
050no if we threw, you know, 200 more on it? No. Right. But, and then you look and say, "Okay, the real is we we budget, right? We we figure with salary and benefits and the benefits aren't just health insurance but you can figure in fight retirement all those other things we're covered in that so $100,000 and if you want to maintain the music program I would say that's two two teachers two music teachers a band an elementary band and an elementary music teacher that will get you that you know that's $700,000 just get a list of those prioritized items you know whether it's staffing program, >> whatever it might be. And then >> we start to make cuts based on those they give us a finite amount of money and we can decide how we
051want to spend it. >> But but you know, but I'll be honest, I'm also not going to ask the taxpayers to fund things that we don't need, >> right? >> You know, and if we are we are downsizing again, our enrollment has decreased. And I give Justin Roy a lot of credit, but he was looking and saying, well, okay, you know, I've only got nine kids in this English class and the schedule's done. not only at nine is you know what like yeah they're they're they're sophomores you can have 18 in one room with a teacher and so you know he's come back but that's a function of the reality that enrollment at Spalding is down almost and could probably say almost 600 kids over over a number of years >> so 600 fewer students
052just spalding alone you are down significant down over a thousand students in this we have we need fewer people for that so I'm not going to ask the taxpayers to fund something we got that I can't stand in front of it and say this. But if you ask me what are the ads backs, that's what the principles will tell you. Let's get into the let's maintain those new things and let's add back the the professional development. >> So with all due respect though and I I wasn't again prepared to bring data. So this data is a couple years old. 76% of our students are below proficient in math. 63% of our students are below proficient in reading. 80% of our students are below proficient in science. The kids with IEPs, 96 below proficient in math,
05391 below proficient in reading, 97 below proficient in science. And we're going to say we don't need the staff. That's crazy. >> Well, I don't know that I don't know what the individual person told them how to do. >> 7% below the state average in elementary school funding for K12 districts. 18% below the state average in middle school funding for K12 districts. 5% lower than the state average for high school funding per pupil. We're going to tell the city we need less. That's crazy. We're not Talk to a teacher. Talk to them. Ask them what they're dealing with every day. We got kids running around crazy in the class uh in the hallways because we don't have enough people to come to that classroom and deal with those kids' needs. This is this is not
054okay. I understand that t that our neighbors will pay the tax bill. We've been kicking the can down the road on our kids' back for way too long. The city can say no, but we got to ask for every penny that we can get. We already are not asking for enough. We already don't have enough. I think when we go to them and we say this is what we actually really need to provide our kids the education they deserve that they need to thrive and then the city says we can't afford that they say yeah I agree with you now we get it we we we got to be putting more pressure on the state but in the meantime what are we going to do next year so I again if we if we want
055to talk about closing a building and that gets us down to a more reasonable number then sure but to to to perhaps we have staff that are in positions that we don't need. But to say that our school is staffed sufficiently, that's that's that's a lie. That is not reality. We can't hire Paris because their contract sucks. We can't fill teaching positions because why would you want to work here when you can't get enough Paris to do to support the work that you're trying to do as a teacher? And then to say that we can do with less is just that is like that's a disservice to our kids. We have to take care of our kids first. That's everyone on this school board agrees with that statement. I've talked to you all about this,
056so I don't doubt any of you feel that way. We have to take care of our kids first. I drive down Whiteall Road. I'm sure it's not the worst road in town, but it's pretty bad right now. I get that. But again, like that's the $10 million that we saved and came in under the tax cap over the last six years. That's why our roads are crap. But it's also why our schools struggle. And I I don't think it's our job to cut our own budget. Like we're not in a position to do that. I I I just disagree with that sentiment and a rent. >> Um thank you uh thank you Nick for your sentiment. I fully agree and Mr. Foni actually I did an enrollment analysis and most of the drops in enrollment
057um over the last three years are at the elementary level. Um so it's heavily heavily skewed at elementary level. Um from February to March we lost 20 plus students. There's something deeper going on here and and to simplify it to that point. I and I understand it's frustration because that's oversimplifying it. You know we can't say we're over staff when we're losing elementary kids. That's if those kids are not going to come back. >> I don't think anyone said overstaffed. I never heard anyone say overstaffed. Didn't I never use that word. I did not use say overstaffed. You said you had teachers that weren't doing anything. >> No, I said that we have >> special order. A point of order. That is not what was said. So why we're going on an attack on the
058superintendent now, I'm not real sure, but that is not what was said. >> So to to correct my point is that enrollment issues are heavily skewed at the elementary level and I think that there is a deeper issue here and agree with Mr. Bellow was saying we need to put more pressure on the city. I say ask for the full 4.5. we've been returning surplus every every year. They can say no. They can say no. We ask for 300,000. I think they owe it to our kids. >> I have um Sam and then Samantha. >> So, I'm going to start with the 4.5 just because it was just brought up. I'll be honest with you. My concern with going full boore on that is you turn everybody off plain and simple and then you don't
059get there. You don't they don't take you I understand the sentiment the feeling. I'm not even going to do it go against it but at some level I cautioned this yesterday and I said we've got to you know if we this can't be adversarial. We need to be we're trying to work here. We're in trouble. We're trying to take care of things which is all true. We do have the ground. I'm listening to some stuff Mr. Bellow said. I'll be honest with you. I'm I'm sitting here struggling because there's a bunch I want to say and I almost feel like it falls under negotiation tactics to be honest with you folks cuz we got stuff coming up and we're sitting here on camera and I don't want to hide things from the public but I
060also don't want to say too much that are going to affect future conversations. So, I guess as the new board member, as I put, do we, you know, should we have a non-public when we talk some of this stuff through a little bit more because I know the path I would like to discuss one of my asks or do we just throw it out here? >> It's negotiations. I wouldn't not if it's not if it's going to revolve around negotiations. So I'll put I'll see if I can avoid some of that as far as that goes. The positions we have were there some interventionists or some are there some things that are affecting the special because that's the other part that I'm kind of looking at. And then obviously you know to Mr. Bellow's point
061we have some things coming up and you know whatever. So do we are we appropriately covered there and if not how do we address that? I guess is what all I'll say. And does that equate to where we're going because we're talking, you know, we had 300,000 and 700,000 and maybe we have, you know, 500 sort 1.2 and I in my mind based on what I'm thinking could probably justify more than that quite frankly. And we're getting back to M. McGawan's you know more like two and you know two I could see those figures pretty readily and I think I could come up with a justification like I said but I just can't spout off too much at this point you know hopefully everybody can try and figure out what I'm saying but I'm kind
062of I don't want to leave this you know I don't want to leave the special ed behind as well I do feel I've talked a couple times about you know it that. But I guess I just want to know are there is there some dollar volume in there or are are all these cuts not going to affect that? I thought I saw interventionists. I couldn't I don't remember that were cut. I don't know what a big deal that is. >> The problem is and I think Mr. Pap mentioned it isn't sometimes that we're not budgeting things because you said we can't fill them. And I know Mr. Bell is in his passion right talk about Paris. you're not you're not cutting pairs out significant. What the problem is we can't we can't find them. Now
063whether that's a salary benefits are just the reality of the job market but it isn't that we're unable that we're not funding these positions or we're not able but sometimes these whether it's parents or things they're posted they're posted today we have plenty of positions posted we're just unable to fill them. The market isn't allowing us to fill them. So that isn't necessarily a budgetary issue much as it is just a labor market. Of course, if we could pay them, you know, that's a budget issue $100,000 $100,000 a year. But that's also be realistic, right? >> What I'm not saying $100,000, but I'm literally and this is where I'm trying not to get to. >> That's where you have to be careful. >> This is but literally I'm trying to do a better root cause
064analysis. And does that equate to some kind of different dollar volume is as best I can replace you could say it without really going out here. You guys are really dragging this out. I wish you kind of make it up a little bit. >> Well, I think maybe the fairest thing to say is that there is money in the budget in a contingency because you do have you are negotiating collective bargaining agreements with two different groups currently and there is money in contingent budget to negotiate fair contracts. This board has negotiated fair contracts. You negotiated a fair teachers contract. And I say fair because it was ratified by both groups. Now, I imagine anyone would wouldn't have turned out more money, but the reality is it was a fairly negotiated contract and ratified and signed
065by both groups, which means I'm going to interpret that as being fairly negotiated. You negotiated a contract with the with the administrators, which was again fairly negotiated by this board and by that group. we put money in contingency to negotiate fair contracts with your with your labor groups. I do believe that the board again will negotiate fair contracts and so that will certainly address maybe some of the issues you're talking about, but there are some negotiations and I do believe it will be fairly negotiated. >> It's probably all we can say. >> Yeah. I'm not on that, right? >> Yeah. No, I'm going to let it draw because it's just it's like I said, it's skirting that. So, >> before I call in Samantha, I just want to just point out it's 8:20. We could
066go around in circles and circles and circles all night long if we want to, but I think what we need to do is focus what do we need to do for Tuesday? Um, and and then call it a night. >> I think we need to add the data that Mr. brought up to Tuesday night because I think when anybody hears that data, it's polarizing and I think we can let the council and the public too when they hear our data what our students where they're at because I know like when we heard that middle school data that was pretty polarizing for me to hear especially as a new board member I feel like those figures speak for themselves so they need to be included. So, they know the gravity and the weight of it. And
067I and I get it. I'm one of those tax people. I live on 12,000 a year. My taxes were 600. Now they're 2600. I have to figure out where they're coming from. But I'm reasonable. And I know that our children are our community. And if we don't have strong communities, then where are we? So, we need to put data heavy in there. And I think Mr. was leading in the right direction because that data is polarizing. It's it's it's polarizing. I mean, there's no other better word for that. The council has agreed to extra money in the past when they've had a plan when they know what it's for. You can't just go in and ask for $4 million even though we know it's needed and we know why it's needed. They don't. They don't
068deal with the data like we do. So we need to say in order to support our students, we know the music program is important in keeping kids and and they learn so much more through music. That's a really important program. This town always understands those issues. You say you're going in cup football, you'll have everybody in town meeting. So you know, they know they believe they believe in what we're doing. They believe in our schools. We don't have a problem with paying for education in this town. We we've passed budgets year after year after year. Taxes have gone up year after year after year. I mean, they are going to have to balance between our needs and how do you put up a you know, our housing costs have gone up 13%. That's not we're
069not doing inefficient work here. Our costs have gone up. You know, the cost, I don't want to mention this, but the cost of asphalt is ridiculous. >> So, >> especially with oil going out, >> and they they don't know how they're going to catch up on this 30-year roads. I mean, I get seasick in the morning driving down 12 Street. It's so bad. >> It's it's that kind of decision they have to make. I mean, but if we have a plan and say to not impact our kids at the elementary level anymore than we are going to because any cut is going to have an impact. The principles came up with things they thought would be the least injurious to the elementary schools. and even the middle school and high school teachers recognized the importance
070of the elementary school and what they said telling them that and that we would need $700,000 to support the teaching that's going on in our in our buildings. I think you you they have their ears open. So, I think you need the data where we are with state numbers even though this state doesn't give a where we are with numbers. It's a it's a property tax crisis right now. It's not held by Rochester. It's everywhere. Everybody is coming to the crisis where they can't pay a $6,000 tax bill. And there are some people and it's not very high income people that are paying $6,000 tax bills. So yes, the state needs to be slapped the head. I mean, the courts have tried to do it and that doesn't work either. So, we just go to
071the council and say, "Here's the data. Here's what we think wouldn't impact our students awfully much. Please, if you care, sir, a little bit more in the bowl. >> Um, I'm going to just point out that to piggy back on what you said, this the council need council believes this and we know this and and whatnot and providing them with data that um I'm going to hearken back to the days and some of you may have been on the board at that time when when TJ Gene joined the school board. um he came here from being mayor and kind of said, "You know what? I'm going to change gears and run for school board. Um and he was under the impression that there's a lot of need to carve right off that bone." And when
072he got the budget and we poured over it, he realized that we are literally bare bones and like we have been bare bones and it seems like we always will be bare bones. um and he came to the realization real fast that there's there's not a lot to cut um and whatnot. So, um TJ, if you're listening, I don't even know if the camera is still on at this point, but um you know, you know, he that was one of the things he told me later on that um that he learned a lot from his one term on the school board. >> Well, you know, we're two bigger than the rest of the city department. and the council has to look at, you know, inspired public works, all important, but it's no data compared to
073the school district. So, naturally, you think the big guy has got all the facts and there's lots of places to cut. The costs of everything we do, it's the back of the house costs that go up. Your food, your lights, your oil, your none of that goes down for the general public. It doesn't certainly go down in our schools. And one of the things that drives me nuts is when I hear, you know, um, you know, the average employee gets paid x amount of dollars and then so teachers should should be close to that. And it's like, well, first of all, average employees aren't necessarily college educated with a master's degree and so on so forth. And when you hire someone with a higher education, they cost more than the average employee. Um, so there's
074added us in in that situation where you hire an employee and whatnot. So, I have a lot of information. I mean, I can work with Nick. I see him every day. Um, and I don't know if you guys trust that we can work together to put something together. We went by the superintendent and some of you if you if we could talk about it even tomorrow night, finance. Um, >> and I think once you get your your board request put together and present that, Nick, you can stand up there at that podium and give the speech you just gave. >> Yeah, >> because they kind of need to hear that, too. >> Nick and I can work that out, too. That's everyone is okay with. I know it's it is 8:30 already. We've been here
075for three hours. >> Funny people are starting to peel off. >> I was so loud. >> Everyone >> good. >> I've had dinner for the last reason and I'm trying so hard to be good over. >> Just looking at the agenda. There is there a couple other things. Is there any other other? First of all, seeing none, there is public comment. Is there anyone from the public address? >> Although part of me wishes I moved into one of those seats >> back there. That looks comfortable. >> Now we're at a German. >> Okay. >> Make a motion to adjourn. I >> a motion by Jerry. >> I second. >> Second by Sam Oliver. All those in favor? I >> each