001Good evening. I'd like to call the >> Am we here? Yes, there we go. Sorry, we're dealing with some glitches. First time in the new location. So, good evening. And I'd like to call the January 21st Board of Education workshop ethics special action meeting um to order. I'm going to now um call on Dr. Schwarz who's going to say a few words and dedicate our uh moment of silence to um a community member. >> Thank you, Dr. Schwarz. >> Uh switch the switch. >> Good evening and thank you so much for inviting me to do this. Um, I did confirm with the family and they are very grateful they did not want to come this evening. But as we begin tonight's meeting, I would like to take a moment to honor and remember our actuous
002student Julian who recently passed away after a courageous and prolonged battle with cancer. Julian was a first grader in our district and though his time with us was far too brief, his impact on our school community will never be forgotten. The actual community is deeply grateful for all the support everyone has shown through this difficult time of grief and loss. At this time, I ask that we pause for a moment of reflection to hold Julian, his family, and all those who loved him in our hearts and thoughts. Thank you so much. Thank you, Dr. Schwarz. Um, sorry. So, the open public meeting acts in accordance with the provisions of the open public meeting. Oh, I'm sorry, the flag salute. After we found the flag, >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States
003of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, now to the open public meetings act. In accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings act, public notice of this meeting has been sent to board members, all district schools, the Herald news, the suburban trends, the record, the messenger, West Milford town hall, the county superintendent's office, the board attorney, cable vision of Wuham West Milford TV77, and posted in the administration building. Copies of the board meeting calendar resolution were provided to all local media, town hall, township, library, and all district schools. Roll call, please. Mr. Schultz. >> Mr. Stovich, >> here. >> Mrs. Dwire. >> Mrs. Jurgensson. >> Mr. Lippy. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Lockwin, >> here. >> Mrs. Markwart >> here.
004>> Mrs. Rico >> here. >> Mrs. Van Dyk >> here. >> Mr. Corino >> here. >> Thank you. Superintendent report. Dr. attention. >> Uh yes, just one quick reminder and then something exciting uh for this evening. So, first I want to remind everyone that kindergarten registration is now open. Opened earlier today. Um it has been advertised in the paper. It has been advertised um on our website and more information will continue to get pushed out to make sure that we are uh getting all of our kindergarteners registered. I know we've had this conversation before, but it is really really important not only that we open registration early, but that we're really pushing to um encourage people to register in that early time frame because that has a huge impact on our scheduling and our budgeting
005for understanding number of sections. Um you get a lot of late kindergarten registrations and when that happens all of a sudden you start to have numbers that may require additional sections and and it's nice to know that information in advance. So, um, that's where we're at with that. And, uh, then the next thing for my report, I'm going to be turning it over to our individual principles because we are going to be doing our recognition for our governor's educator of the year and our educational services professionals of the year for each of our schools. Um, this is something that the state does in each district. Uh, not all districts participate, but but many do. And this is something that for the past few years has uh kind of gone away in the district. We're really
006really excited to bring it back. Um, you know, it's been a great honor for me to go around and meet some of our our really dedicated educators in this district and uh Mr. Novak and I had the chance to kind of go around and congratulate everyone and um super excited to recognize all of them here because these are some of the best educators we have to offer. Uh so without further ado, I am going to bring our principles up. We're going to start uh with Mr. Kaine. He has a a family commitment following this. So, he was kind enough to make time for us this evening. We're going to let him come up first and honor his. [Applause] All right. Good. All right. So, it is my pleasure tonight um to recognize a couple of
007amazing educators. Uh start off with uh Mrs. Beth Schaefer, our Maple Road School teacher of the year. Um, this is the second time in the last decade that Mrs. Beth Schaefer, aka Miss Beth, has been selected as our Maple Road School teacher of the year. That consistent recognition from her peers and school community members reflects the consistent excellence that Beth brings to school each day. She approaches each school day with an un unwavering commitment to do all that she can to support her preschool students and help them grow. Beth teaches our developmental and inclusion preschool classes at Maple Road School. Over a decade ago, she helped launch our inclusion preschool program and has helped the program grow and thrive over the last several years. In her preschool classes, Beth develops a student- centered learning environment
008rooted in centers-based instruction that allows for high levels of differentiation and individualized student support and growth. Many of her preschool activities are hands-on, creating a climate of discovery, and wonder among her young learners. Her preschool classroom is filled with music, learning, and laughter, and often reminds me of the old television series, The Magic Garden. Beth is the consumate professional and approaches all aspects of her professional practice with grace and compassion. She is truly a teacher leader. Her teaching colleagues, especially the other members of our preschool team, often seek her for advice and guidance. She is also actively involved in our school's character education activities and our community's special Olympics programs. I could go on and on, but I will finish by saying that I am proud to work with Beth each day, and I'm honored
009to be presenting her tonight as the Maple Road School teacher of the year. [Applause] back. [Applause] >> All right, next up, Mrs. Gemma S. Mrs. S is a special class aid in our Klein Preschool program and as the Maple Road School Educational Services Professional of the Year. I often refer to our Klein Preschool staff as the hardest working people in show business because they help our youngest learners with some of the greatest needs. Gemma embodies the compassion, collaboration, and grit of our climb preschool staff. She works tirelessly with her fellow preschool aids and the lead teacher to support the individual needs of her students. In Gemma's preschool class, we have had quite a bit of aid staff turnover this year. And at times, Gemma has been the glue that has held the classroom together. Most
010importantly, Gemma does all of this with a smile and a cheerful glint in her eye. She has a friendly word for everyone she meets and gets along with staff members and parents throughout the Maple Road School community. She has played an active role in several staff morale activities this year in an effort to spread joy to her colleagues. Gemma is a shining light in the Maple Road School community and I am proud to present her this evening as the Maple Road School Educational Services Professional. [Applause] picture. >> Yes. [Music] [Applause] Up next, Dr. Schwarz for Asha School. [Applause] It is my honor to introduce to you this year's Governor Teacher of the Year for Asha School, Miss Blake Piscanti. [Applause] [Music] I'm quite fortunate because not only do I get to work with Blake now,
011I got to work with Blake up at UGL as a colleague as well. So, I I can vouch for every bit of her. That is wonderful. Miss Viscanti is an outstanding educator who exemplifies dedication, skill, and a true passion for her students. She teaches special education at Apua, where her commitment to fostering both academic and emotional growth in her students is truly unparalleled. In her resource room, Miss Viscanti creates a learning environment that is both nurturing and challenging. Her exceptional instructional practices are designed to meet the unique needs of each student, ensuring that every child can access the curriculum and thrive. Whether through differentiated instruction, individualized support, or hands-on activities, Miss Viscanti makes sure that all students are actively engaged and making progress. Her ability to adapt lessons, scaffold learning, and provide targeted interventions is
012a testament to her deep understanding of her students needs and her dedication to their success. What makes Miss Viscante particularly exceptional is her ability to work collaboratively with both students and staff. She partners seamlessly with her special class aid, ensuring each student receives the individualized support that they need. Her datadriven instruction tailors lessons to meet the unique needs of her students and she keeps parents well informed of children's progress. Miss Viscanti impacts her impacts extend beyond the classroom. She has taken on leadership roles in extracurricular activities such as facilitating our sores club and contributing to the district literacy committee. She consistently strives to improve her professional practices, incorporating new strategies and programs that benefit all students. Miss Viscanti is not only an outstanding teacher, but a true colleague and a true leader who enriches the
013lives of her students and our entire school community. Her dedication, creativity, and passion make her the perfect candidate for teacher of the year for the Ashawa community. Miss Vganti [Applause] Thank you. [Applause] down for Marshall. [Applause] >> All right. So, good evening everybody. Uh tonight I'll be recognizing uh both uh amazing educators and professionals in my building. Our uh educator of the year, Mrs. Chelsea Byus, and our service professional of the year, Mrs. Mory Kelly. Both of whom I'm very happy to see have their daughters in attendance today. You guys should be very proud of your moms because they really are incredible. So, uh we're going to start with Chelsea. As principal at Marshall, I've had the pleasure of supervising Miss Pyrus for the past six years. And during that time, she has consistently demonstrated
014why she deserves this prestigious recognition. Miss Pyrus is a dedicated and passionate teacher who consistently goes above and beyond to meet the diverse needs of her students. She's skilled at differentiating her lessons to accommodate various learning styles and abilities, and she assures that every student has the opportunity to showcase their individual talents. Her enthusiasm for teaching art is contagious and she finds creative ways to engage her students such as incorporating current trends like the viral ghost challenge into her lessons. Her bulletin board displays are always always add more life and highlight the artistic abilities of our student population. And sometimes I'll catch her when she's putting them up and when I ask her about them, she raves about her students and how hard they worked and how creative they were. You could just tell how
015proud she is of that. Beyond the classroom, Miss Pyrus has become a leader in the district's art department, working collaboratively on events like Pin Wheels for Peace, District Art Festival, Veterans Day activities, and you could go on and on. She has also developed an engaging Instagram page to showcase her students artistic achievements, highlighting the success of her students and the positive impact of her teaching. for me. Chelsea, you absolutely deserve this recognition and all the honors in the future that come your way. Congratulations. [Applause] All right. And now, Morin Kelly. So, I've had the good fortune of being her direct supervisor for the past four years. And before I even met her, I heard tales of how amazing she was. When she finally arrived, those tales had been proven true. I saw it firsthand with
016my own eyes. So, while I unfortunately cannot take any credit for her success and how amazing she is, she was great before she even got to me, I'll absolutely take it as a win for the students of our Encore program. Her colleagues view her as a true professional. She's extremely flexible, a trait that benefits her in the crazy juggling that is the Encore program. Despite constant schedule changes, she's able to provide structure and routine to her students. behaviors in her class are virtually non-existent, and she maintains such a calm, even, compassionate demeanor that she immediately wins over her students. She's constantly implementing new instructional strategies that she's picked up and is not afraid to try something new. She always has an eye on student achievement data and knows each of her students profiles so well.
017She's very involved with the larger Marshall Hill community, stepping up to one to run one of our Eagle Scholars, that's our before and after school academic support program, as well as serve on various committees and be an adviser for traps. She's a critical part of our Marshall Hill community. I'm so thankful to work for her, and you are incredibly deserving of this honorable [Applause] Congratulations. >> See the picture first. [Applause] Next, Mrs. Miller for Paradise. [Applause] Hello. Good evening. It is my extreme pleasure to talk about PK's Governor Teacher of the Year, Mrs. Jessica Cohen. She's here tonight with her husband and her oldest son, who Benny, I've known your mom since you were in her belly, so a very long time now. It reminds me of how old I am when I see just
018how much Benny's grown over the years. Jess is a strong and talented first grade instructor who continuously improves her content knowledge across all subject areas, but particularly in her passion, phonics, as it relates to science of reading. Mrs. Cohen enthusiastically implements new strategies and techniques to her teaching all the time. as she's always learning and growing, learning more about improving her practice. Her professionalism and interactions with parents and her keen awareness of classroom dynamics allow her to effectively manage her students, providing them with the social and emotional support they need to be ready to learn. As a successful member of our district literacy committee, Mrs. Cohen played a crucial role in selecting the new district-wide reading program for this school year. Also during the third trimester last year, she piloted two new reading programs, all
019while ensuring there were no gaps in skills and concepts. Mrs. Cohen regularly presents to staff and her fellow teachers at professional development sessions. This year, she presented to her colleagues and to parents about our new ELA program, Wonders, with her district literacy committee colleagues. Mrs. Cohen is always looking to set professional goals for herself. She continues to aim to explore adjustments to her teaching and to learning for her students demonstrating weaknesses or struggles. Furthermore, she's implementing the chosen ELA program with fidelity across the district all while constantly supporting her colleagues with the implementation. Mrs. Cohen is a wellrespected member of the Paradise Null staff. She's a member of our building based character and ELA committees. She coordinates family math night, effectively managing almost the entire evening's activities. Additionally, she plays significant roles in planning and
020facilitating our family literacy nights. Mrs. Cohen attends PTA meetings. She collaborates with her colleagues, whether it's to perform in or host the PK talent show. You may have heard of her alter ego, DJ Krispy Cohen. She does this to support her young students in their performances, but also Mrs. Cohen directed PK's first ever elementary school play that included approximately 100 kindergarten through fifth grade students. Thank you to those of you who were able to enjoy the performance of Frozen Jr. She is an active participant in our district-wide literacy committee, attending numerous meetings as well as demonstrations and per and workshops and trainings. Mrs. Cohen has become a valuable resource for her colleagues, ready to support them at any moment. Jess is truly deserving of this honor as she is passionate, dedicated, and enthusiastic. She's always
021looking to provide more to her students, colleagues, Paradise Null, and the West Mulford community. It is no surprise that we are here to recognize her as PK's teacher of the year. Congratulations. [Applause] [Music] If I didn't want to talk about her [Applause] [Music] because we do also have um an ED services professional at PK. However, she's currently in the dental chair, I think, getting a root canal. I know she would much rather be here with us. Mrs. Zida, aka nurse Carol is in her third year as a school nurse at Paradise Null, and she is consistently excelling in this role. She actively engages in the health office, demonstrating her commitment to learning and growth. Nurse Car Nurse Carol asks insightful questions, seeks support as needed, and effectively collaborates with her nursing colleagues. Her nursing practices
022are safe, caring, and appropriate. Nurse Carol responds to communities to the community's needs. She follows up with parents and students to address any health concerns that affect education and attendance. She personalizes her space by displaying artwork created by students over the past two years, making her office very inviting and relatable. She's active in the paradise null community. She frequently consults with her direct supervisor and colleagues to enhance the educational environment of our school. She's always available for students and staff, demonstrating a wealth of knowledge and a warm bedside matter that's comforting to all of our children. Her strong communication skills foster p positive relationships with Paradise No parents. Nurse Carol's positive attitude radiates throughout our building and she goes above and beyond to care for those in need. Whether it's offering a break in her
023office or providing support when someone is unwell. She consistently checks in on staff members to ensure their well-being, demonstrating her commitment to the entire Paradise Null family. Her cheerful her cheerful personality, smile, and laughter uplift those around her. Nurse Carol deserves this recognition not only for her role as our school nurse, but also for her leadership, professionalism, and respect towards all individuals she interacts with. She's an invaluable addition to our Paradise Null community. Thank you, [Applause] >> Dr. Challenging. [Applause] I am extremely honored and proud to be here tonight to present UGL's teacher of the year as well as educational services professional of the year. Um, I'm going to start with our teacher of the year. And once again, I'm completely honored to introduce Mrs. Holly Miller as UGL's teacher of the year. With a
024calm and professional demeanor, Mrs. Miller sets high standards for her students and serves as a role model and unofficial team lead for fifth grade. She has welcomed new members to her grade level team over the past few years and has spent her own time planning and sharing lessons and professional materials. Everyone is given a fair and equal opportunity to provide input and be on a level playing field with her. She has been in West Milford for about seven years and she is a dedicated teacher and senior member of our fifth grade team. I am honored to call her a part of my staff and wish her luck as she applies for county teacher of the year. One last fun fact, she was my first secret Santa last year when I started at UGL. Again, congratulations
025UGL teacher of the year, Holly Miller. [Applause] And finally, our educational services professional of the year. I'm proud to announce that Mrs. Kim Walker is our educational services professional of the year. Mrs. Walker is our reading specialist and I can honestly say that in the two years that I've been with her, I have learned an immense amount about just reading in general, just how kids learn. And I learned this because she's part of our INRS and our 504 teams. And sitting in meetings with Mrs. Walker is like is like sitting in a college level class on on what it is to be a reading specialist. She's just amazing. Um, she's able to inspire both students and staff and is always willing to take time out of her own professional responsibilities to help both new and
026returning teachers. She goes the extra mile covering classes when needed. She is just a a wealth of knowledge and I again I'm I'm honored and and just I couldn't be happier for her. So congratulations, Mrs. Walker. [Applause] Yeah. Dr. Mados from ACT. [Applause] Good evening everyone. Kathy Kathy Easter of the year for Mwood School. Want to do something a little different. Actually want to read the nomination form you received uh before you were committed. Kathy is the most caring person I have ever met. Not only does she show her care to all our students, she always makes sure to check in with teachers on how they're feeling. And if they need anything at all during class, Kathy takes no breaks. During downtime, she asks students about their lives and interests. Everyone leaves Kathy's presence feeling
027her joy. Kathy helps an array of classes and she does her best to fully understand each lesson in order to help students. Math topics here are taught in very specific ways with manipulatives and Kathy always makes sure to help students in the way we do in class. Instead of teaching them those old school methods, she ensures consistency and always open to learning. Kathy, the consistent theme that Mack School has heard over and over from your colleagues, everybody from the main office, second floor, first floor, you name it, is your smile. When you walk down the hallway, you're happy. I actually don't know if you actually have a bad day. Seriously. But um I think it's that presence that we all talk about what makes you not just the ESP of the year, which is one
028hell of a good class A. Thank you so much for being with us. [Applause] Mcaban's teacher of the year. This is Jackie Seagel. Jackie, you I still hear you. And George Aie Seagull has blossomed to a very valuable and capable teacher. She is dedicated, involved, and caring, working as many after school events as possible in creating widely innovative and engaging lessons and units for her students. She goes above and beyond and out of her way to include everyone and to help her staff with everything. With a passion for teaching that rivals even the most dedicated Hogwarts professor, she has created an environment where learning is magical and students feel empowered to explore their potential. Miss Seagull has shown our students that they can be heroes in their own stories just like Harry, Hermione, and Ron.
029Thank you, Miss Seagull, for your hard work, creativity, and unwavering support of our students. We are so proud to have you as a part of our team. Thank you so much for allowing me to deliver things in your car to your class, especially chocolate frogs. I appreciate that. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you McAuven's teacher of the year, Miss Jackie Seagull. [Applause] Another one. >> Yes. [Applause] Last but not least, math science for our high school. [Applause] I'm proud to present West Milford High School's teacher of the year, Heather Burns, and our educational service professor, Nolan Lambert. Mrs. Burns is truly an exceptional educator and deserving of being named West Milford High School's teacher of the year. Her dedication to our students extends far beyond the typical classroom setting. As a theater educator, Heather has
030created a vibrant and inclusive arts program that serves as a safe haven for all students regardless of their background or academic path. Under Heather's leadership, our theater arts program has flourished. She has transformed it from an extracurricular activity into a comprehensive program that now serves multiple levels of students, garnering numerous awards and accolades across New Jersey. Heather's dedication to her profession is unwavering. She not only teaches acting and theater skills, but also equips students with valuable technical expertise by involving them in all aspects of production, including sound, lighting, stage craft, and stage management management. This hands-on expertise has even launched some of our students into successful acting careers. Heather's impact on our school community extends beyond the stage. She fosters a sense of belonging and safety for all students, creating a diverse and inclusive environment
031where students from all academic and social backgrounds feel valued and respected. The theater arts program has become a true beacon of inclusivity, successfully integrating students with special needs into our program. Thank you, Heather Bur. [Applause] Dana Lambert is an outstanding school counselor who whose dedication to students success is truly remarkable. Her in-depth knowledge of postsecary options is unparalleled. Cultivating cultivated through extensive professional development and tireless exploration of colleges, universities across the country, Dana constantly seeks out the most up-to-date information on college admission trends and best practices in school counseling. Beyond her expertise, Dana is a passionate advocate for all students, particularly those from under underrepresented groups. She's a founding member of Rainbow Key, a vital organization that provides crucial support and resources for LGBTQIA students in their postsecary planning. Dana's commitment to inclusivity and equity
032shines through in her work with all students, including those with special needs, first generation college students, and English language learners. Dana's impact on our students is immeasurable. Her tireless efforts to organize events like college fairs and the highly successful on-site decision day program provide invaluable opportunities for students to connect with colleges and build meaningful relationships with admission officers. Dana's dedication to ensuring that all students have the support and resources they need to achieve their post-secondary goals is truly inspiring. West Murphan High School is very proud of our educ educational ser professional, Miss Dana Lambert. Thank you. [Applause] What happened? Uh if we could do one last picture with all of our recipients this evening and the board and then following that we'll take a brief pause while we set up for uh our uh ethics
033and and HIV training with Mr. Nash. Mr. Nash, I apologize. I knew how great of educators they all were. I underestimated how long it would take us to talk about them. We also under estimated the number of chairs that we needed for all of you to come and support. So, uh our apologies, but one quick picture and then I'm sure most of you uh are here for this portion. And as much as I'm sure you'd love to hear Mr. Nash's presentation, we'll take a brief pause if you'd like to step out and enjoy the rest of your evening elsewhere. So, come on up. We'll do a picture all together. No, no. My mom's principal. It should be Three, two, one. [Applause] I'd like to call the meeting. >> Okay, now we're good. >> So, you
034know, Peter said, [Music] >> okay, thank you, Dr. Kitchen and everyone that left. Uh, special reports and correspondents, Mr. Schultz. I don't have anything for approval tonight, but uh for the next meeting, I'll have the December 17th workshop and regular meeting minutes, the executive session minutes, and the January 2nd uh 2025 reorgan minutes. I'll have that at next week's meeting. >> Thank you, Dr. Schultz. Uh president's report, I have uh nothing to report on today. Uh public comments, is there anyone So, public comment is on agenda items only. Is there anyone wishing to speak? >> I didn't think I have any pictures in my way. >> Okay, seeing no one, could I have a motion to close public comments? >> Motion to close public comments. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> Any opposed?
035Okay. And next would be Mr. Nash with our ethics presentation. Welcome, Mr. Nash. Sorry for the wait. That's all right. Um, I might not need a microphone since uh talking to you. I was very excited for a moment when I saw so many people. I thought they wanted to know about school ethics. But uh thank thank you for having me in. It's wonderful to be here with you. Uh wonderful to have a chance to talk together. Um quick introduction. Uh, I am director of legal education and national outreach for the Foundation for Educational Administration. Um, that's the sister organization to the New Jersey Principles and Supervisors Association. So, it was wonderful seeing all of your your great school principles. Um, just hear some of the amazing things that that are happening. Um, I spent many
036years working as legal counsel uh for the principal association and represented school administrators when legal issues came up with their their employment. Um, as I did that work, it occurred to me it's nice to help people before they're in trouble. So, uh, I moved into the legal education realm to to work with school districts across the city. So, it's wonderful to be here with you. Um, I'm going to walk through both school ethics um, issues that, uh, we should all think about and harassment, intimidation, and bullying issues. Um, here's my standard disclaimer. I have to do this. I'm not technically giving you legal advice. I'm giving you information. Um, of course, you rely on your board attorney for for legal advice. Um, but please jump in, ask questions as we go. Um, if you have
037something on your mind, I'm sure it will help others as well. Um, and all of you have access to this PowerPoint. Uh, so very happy for you to use any of this and turn key any way you think might be helpful. So, um, as we're talking about school ethics, I think it's just important to to begin with sort of the basics. uh the role of the board of education and it's it was probably an eternity ago but I did spend six years as a school board member so I've been in your shoes um hate to admit that was 30 years ago um so not exactly your shoes our world has changed in the last 30 years um but it is an incredibly important role I think we would all agree that community engagement and helping
038to promote that um is a huge part of that role U communicating vision um and goals for the district is very important. Um doing what we have to do to promote a safe supportive environment for everyone is huge. Um but then you get into the nitty-gritty of specific functions that you have as board members. Um developing policy is a huge part of the job. Of course, the budget and struggling with um state aid or the lack thereof is a huge part of what we need to do. Curriculum, staffing, um oversight. Um those really are core functions of being a school board. Um and it's important as we think about the ethics piece to always remember you really want to think of all of you as a collective body. Uh sometimes uh when folks are first
039elected to a school board, there's this sense of what is my individual role and all of you have an incredibly important role uh to discuss these huge issues. Uh but the authority is when you all come together and that's always important to to remember. The authority is as you full forward. Uh the community might not always know that. Um and it's important to sometimes educate those in the community about uh what you can do as individual board members versus uh collectively as a board. So just to sort of get us started on the um school ethics conversation, a quick hypothetical. Uh what if um a board member or president takes it upon himself or herself to stop someone from uh presenting at a board meeting because of their extreme political views? Any thoughts on um
040whether that would be appropriate for a board member? >> Will the board member would say it? >> I don't think it would be up to if that's not the board member. >> Good. So, one one point is that um you know, at a board meeting, if there was going to be someone saying perhaps you've crossed the line, board president, superintendent, board attorney, um it makes much more sense for those individuals to to make those statements, but sort of getting to the heart of this question. >> I don't think we can stop. >> Okay. Right. I mean, um >> freedom of speech, uh first amendment is a core foundational principle of our nation. um we're really not going to be able to say no unless of course even freedom of speech has its limits, right? If
041you say something that sounds like you're threatening to others um or inciting others to riot or or just create a dangerous situation, that's different. What about responding uh on the spot uh to somebody who you think has just given a lot of misinformation and attempting to set the record straight? >> Don't think so. >> Yeah, that's not the time and place, right? Um so certainly it might make sense depending on what the issue is if there is some basic misunderstanding for superintendent um to address an issue. uh oftentimes it makes sense to address the issue um after the fact to listen to what the community is saying to understand what the perceptions are um not necessarily to be drawn into debate on those issues. Um, and as we talk about school ethics, um, avoiding that
042sort of, um, impromptu back and forth helps avoid ethics issues that that we'll talk about. Um, commenting on what a speaker is saying in a manner that's critical of the superintendent or other employees. So, somebody gets up and they're saying things that are critical of superintendent or district um, administrators or others. Uh, what about the idea of a board member uh, agreeing with that? Sounds fine with superintendent say guys superintendent. That's the most honest answer I've ever had on this training. Um, not the time and place. >> Right. Can I actually circle back to the one before that? I have a question about it. So, uh, in terms of setting a record straight or responding on the spot, is it appropriate for, um, superintendent, president, possibly attorney kind of sitting at that table to sort
043of confirm and decide, should we respond to this now? Yes. >> Um, because that's typically how we've handled it here. It's been my experience in the past as well where we kind of decide like, is this something we want to address? We may decide, thank you for your comment and move on. we'll we you know reach out to us and we can clarify or we may choose to respond but it's just want to make sure it's appropriate for us to be able to have that sidebar to say should we respond to this now >> perfectly appropriate it makes sense right um some things are easy to correct um you know and just an honest misunderstanding um others could be much more complicated right u and the last thing you want to do is uh start
044getting into sort of heated angry exchang changes back and forth. But yes, sometimes it makes a lot of sense to do that. Um, so what about a board member who directs that specific action to be taken? Somebody has said there is an unsafe condition on uh one of our athletic fields and a board member uh turns to superintendent and says, "Um, you need to be out there tomorrow morning making sure that is correct and fixed." What about that? No, I think that's a no >> because >> that sounds like administering, >> Right. >> Yes. So, you know, perfectly understandable um to have that concern. Now, of course, when you have those concerns as board members, you're going to hear things from the community. It's inevitable in your world. um to bring those to the superintendent
045and say, "I'm hearing this concern. Can you please address this issue?" is perfectly appropriate and that's sort of um you know an important part of being a board member to be that connection and to convey concern from the community. >> Yeah. But it wouldn't be in the public eye. >> That's right. >> That's exactly right. um because in the public eye now you u it looks like you're being critical of the employee and engaging in evaluation that we should um argue with the presenter. Um not a great strategy. It's not illegal, but it's easy to be drawn into a conversation that could cross every lines. Um arguing with other board members, not illegal. Um but it's easy to perhaps say something that you can't take back. So it's just important to to take a moment
046um and think through whether it's the right time and place. Uh good case to to learn from. This was 2010. This was a case um West Windsor Plainsboro School District. There was a parent who was furious who felt that a particular coach had not been uh very fair to his daughter when as an athlete. And this parent uh made it his business to come to meeting after meeting to convince the district they should fire this particular coach. Uh after this person had come to their sixth or seventh meeting uh the board president was a little bit exhausted and decided that we've heard this over and over again um and decides after a minute or so to cut that person off or less than 30 seconds to cut that person off. We've heard this a million
047times before. you have anything else you want to talk about besides this one issue and stops the person. That same board president had allowed others to speak between seven and 12 minutes on various topics. Uh that parent was furious, sue the district and said, "You violated my first amendment rights and was successful." And you know, one of the things that the um board tried to say was that you can't sue us. if anyone can get sued, you can sue that board president who was a rogue board president, but you can't sue us as a district. We're not responsible for what the board president said. And the court disagreed. Uh when the board president acts and does something inappropriate and it's allowed to stand at a meeting, the district is answerable for what has happened. Uh
048so again, taking the time to think through uh what would be a better strategy. So there are other things that you probably do. Um you might say at the start of a meeting uh please comment on agenda items only and other topics you can raise at the end of a meeting. Um again obviously if somebody again is saying something threatening or harassing you know those are going to be said uh but you really can't decide I don't want to listen to this person at yet another meeting uh because they've said the same thing. We do have a we have a regulation that's printed on our agenda that kind of covers a lot of these things and kind of gives the public an idea of why we might not respond because what was happening for years
049is that people would just not respond and it looked like we were ignoring what they had to say. >> That's so important, right? You need that um trust from your community. You need understanding from the community. So, taking the time to let folks understand why you might not be responding. And frankly, um you have rules that other elected officials don't have. So, people might be used to how a council operates or how other governing bodies operate and you have other considerations that they don't have. It's important to educate folks. So um these are just some of the things that you certainly can appropriately do have bylaws to govern um you know how long individuals speak for limited time of speakers. You also uh you might have a particular amount of time that you give speakers
050and then you have 150 people show up who all want to speak. Normally you give everybody three minutes. That's not going to work when you have 150 people in the room. So, as long as you're evenhanded, it's you can set reasonable limits that might be differing from your typical limits depending on how many people there. So, uh school official uh ethics um a few things that are are pretty straightforward. Um you shouldn't uh be acting in any way uh that is in conflict with the board of education. Um, you know, one way that has sometimes happened, um, individual board members who often are parents in the community, um, might have a dispute about an issue in how their child has been handled in a particular matter. Um, if that board member decides to sue the
051district as a parent, there's a conflict of interest and we've seen that. Um, so that can be a little bit frustrating. Um at that point our state has said you need to make a choice. You can certainly do that and still but you can't do that and be able even in the area of special education. If you decide to uh pursue due process claims at that point there would be a conflict. Um so certainly we want to recognize those potential conflicts that could exist. Uh New Jersey has very strong nepotism regulations that are in effect um that uh prohibit uh the hiring of relatives. It's a very broad term relatives of board members or chief school administrator, superintendent. Um of course, if uh when you were elected, there were already relatives in the district, they
052don't have to resign. That's perfectly appropriate. Um but any new hiring would not be permissible at that point. Um and if there were existing relatives under the ethics rules um at that point you would need to recuse yourself from any discussion about those individuals or any potential promotions for those individuals. Um so you want to be careful about um the nepotism rules. You can see how broadly we define relative for that purpose. So, we've got nieces, nephews, grandparents, grandkids, in-laws, stepparents, uh half brothers, half sisters, uh or the uh the spouse um of a relative. So, it was very broad term for the nepotism regulations. >> Can I ask a question on that one, please? >> So, um as I'm sure you're aware, the applicant pool for many positions in many districts has been shrinking
053over the past few years. So, let's say for example, there was a position where we only had one applicant and they happened to be a relative of a board member um and you're not choosing that person over somebody else, but would that be it's not a situation we're in, but I could but I could see that being, you know, a situation that could exist. Are there circumstances where you could hire a relative of a board member if that was clearly the best option for the district or perhaps the only option for the district? Um, and how would you go about it? the rules have been very unforgiving on that issue. Um I have not seen that allowed. The the way you would attempt to go about it would be to uh petition the school ethics
054commission in advance. Um and they can issue what are called advisory opinions. >> Okay. >> Um so before you go ahead and do the thing >> that becomes an ethics violation laying it out to the ethics commission and say could we do this? Yeah. >> That's the approach you'd want to take. But I have not seen that particular scenario permitted yet. >> Let's hope we don't find ourselves in that situation. >> The board member resigns though. >> Well, that's that's I mean that's the other option. That's the option >> like with the parents in the school district. That's also the board. >> Yes. Which is which is unfortunate, but that is sort of the option that we know is permissible in that situation. Uh so um of course uh the ethics rules say we shouldn't
055be trying to secure any sort of unwarranted uh benefits for others whether they're family members or not. So the ethics rules also uh would apply if we were to pressure um the district to hire your best friend who is not qualified for a position. Right? It's not just for relatives. securing unwarranted advantages. So that part is broad. Uh school officials um include schoolboard members um and school administrators as well. So uh you want to understand that the ethics law does cover all school administrators not just board members. Um So, if you're not sure, again, advisory opinions, if you're not sure whether something might violate the rules, the um the option of asking for an advisory opinion, I think, is is a good thing to do. Uh we do have a school ethics commission that, you
056know, is quite active. There are a large number of ethics complaints and issues that are raised each year. Um and it does make sure that all of those are addressed. Um and you know the various sanctions that are available range from a reprimand uh through removal of a board member which is exceedingly rare but it's happened a few times. Um even um in some cases fines if somebody is in bad faith bringing an ethics complaint where there's clearly no legitimate basis for that issue. So, you know, we've seen sort of the gamut uh of potential uh responses. So, the ethics rules uh for board members, common sense things, you know, the idea is to not surrender your judgment to special interest or or partisan groups, not use the schools for personal gain, maintain confidentiality. This
057one is incredibly challenging. you by the nature of your role um get a lot of very confidential information about students. You know there is an HIV issue uh that is being addressed and you have to vote to affirm, reject or modify the result. You might have questions and in close session you get some pretty detailed information about that issue. Um there's federal law in addition to the ethics rules that say you can't share that information with others and that can be frustrating sometimes for the community. So educating community members that you know this is confidential information. I only know it because I'm a board member and that's a good way to think about that issue. Do I know this because I'm a board? and the minute we say yes and it is something uh confidential
058about that individual student, we can't share that information. Uh same thing is true um if you're talking about a particular staff member, maybe there's a concern about a staff member's performance, there's potential litigation, potential tenure charges, you're discussing that in closed session, community members might be interested about that conversation and what was said. Uh, and that's not something you're allowed to discuss with the community. Um, I think the last one here, um, is so important. You know, as we said, you're going to get complaints, of course, um, and concerns from the community, um, directing those to the superintendent. And the ethics rules do say if you ever had a superintendent who completely ignored you and just looked the other way and didn't respond, well, now the board can be more proactive on that issue. But
059we almost never see that where there's a response. >> I have a question when you were talking about the hits. Is there a is there a program or something that we could do in educating our parents because I think we don't that's where we lose some of the um >> it's a great question. We we do this quite often. Um we have what we call a parent university. Um, so you know, I'm doing for several other districts a series of evening uh webinars for parents, virtual webinars. Um, and I think that's really valuable. Um, >> we have found that uh Zoom or other virtual sessions are much more effective. you get much larger response than asking folks to come out and they also can be recorded and be put out there for the community >>
060because that's what where you get into the for tap kind of thing and I'm wondering if that's because you know it it is good to educate our our our parents about what's going because what we need the education on the head itself but it's important that parents understand that even though it may be unsubstantiated we're not saying that something didn't happen. >> That's exactly right. Um, so letting parents know that you're taking the issue very seriously. New Jersey has a very technical definition of both. It's probably not the definition that any of us would have thought of, but there it is. We we've got a law that says this is how we define harassment, condition, bullying. So helping parents understand that. Um, understanding the difference between bullying and conflict, >> huge issue, right? Um, so
061that's uh something that we can definitely help with. So a few examples of ethics rules that have uh uh or issues that have come up over the years. Um, hiring uh personnel without any recommendation from the superintendent is a no no. We see this in a few cases. calling that administrator in the evening and demanding reports because you're not sure you're getting straight information from the superintendent um is also not the way to address a concern. If there is a legitimate concern about the information you're getting, working through the full board um talking with the superintendent, documenting the concern is what you should do. um meeting privately with a police chief um because you don't think that a senior prank incident was handled well is going beyond the role of a school board member. That
062same board member uh sent out letter letters to fellow board members criticizing the principal um for how she had handled a senior prank incident um and trying to convince the other board members to not give this particular principal tenure. that is a violation of the ethics act and it also is something that violates the open public meetings act. Those emails back and forth um which are perfectly understandable. You know, I think that's how we all communicate these days. Um you can accidentally have a board meeting even if it's not a single email to a majority of the board. If you were to email one board member, that board member emails another board member, he emails another board member and effectively you make a decision on an issue, that would be a violation of the working
063public meetings act. Um, even though it was a rolling set of emails that we saw. So, you want to be careful um about, you know, those sorts of things. uh using the district email to seek political contributions. Uh it clearly violates the ethics uh act. Um developing and make and and mandating the use of specific interview questions because you don't think the district's doing a very good job of how they conduct interviews is trying to administer the district. um sending an email demanding explanation for the handling of the refusal of students to stand for the national anthem and trying to personally investigate that issue. Again, not the role of board members. trying to intimidate union members um in addition to being an ethics violation was found to be an unfair labor practice where we saw
064that in case that was a little bit surprising because um some folks thought that since it wasn't also an ethics issue that perk wouldn't have any um standing but it was both. So you want to recognize that Sorry. Um tricky issue. Uh board member at a board meeting um during the period where folks were wearing masks um decided to wear a mask with a a rainbow flag on it. Um, another board member thought that was an inappropriate political message and did file an ethics complaint against the board member who wore that mask. Uh, the ethics commission did uh, rule that that was not an ethics violation because it was basically anchored um, in human rights and trying to signal that uh, the school district is a safe affirming environment for all students. It wasn't against
065anyone. It was signaling affirmation and support. And we've seen that in um a number of cases where there were complaints against staff members as well. So if what you're doing is signaling a classroom or at a board meeting that this is a safe affirming environment, um that has been found to be perfectly acceptable. >> What if it was a more direct political statement like a mask with a candidate's name on it or a shirt with a candidate? >> Clearly inappropriate, >> right? And we've seen those two. So, lots of creative um use of masking when we were when we were dealing with that advisory page. Um again, this is a tool that not many districts use, but I would suggest doing it. This was um um a case where uh the board asked, "Do we
066would we violate the ethics rules if we refuse to implement New Jerseyy's uh health and physical education standards because we don't really like those standards and we don't think we should implement those standards as written." Um so an advisory opinion was issued. It wasn't written quite as clearly as I wish it had been, but it basically said you you could be setting the district up um and the district would very likely be violating the law by refusing to implement the standards and the individual board members may be violating the rules. So they they weren't definitive on the individual board members, but they were definitive on the school district um being a violation of state law. And we have seen that um in a few uh cases where people were concerned about particular New Jersey standards
067and um in some cases refusal to adopt them or sort of changing the rules of those standards. So, for example, with the health standards we have in place, um, parents can opt out if they have a concern. Um, this particular district wanted to change the rule so that you didn't get the health standards unless a parent opted in. that would rewire things. Not something social media. I used to do training that said just don't go on social media, but nobody listened to that training. So, I've sort of given up on that message. People aren't going to go on social media. So, I understand that. So, a few examples. Uh, we had a board member make an anti-Muslim comment. You can see a particular comment that a board member made. The board member said, "I wasn't
068talking about anyone in the school district. I wasn't targeting, you know, any other staff members or students. I was just expressing a political view." school ethics commission said those kinds of comments um could undermine the faith of the community in the school district. Um so that's where you want to keep in mind that as a citizen there are lots of things that you could say on social media but are you undermining public confidence in a school district by making those comments? um emails um an email to a parent that was critical of an employee under investigation um not appropriate just like a public comment critical that employee also wouldn't be appropriate. Um email to the legislature against a mask mandate um if it's written in a way that leaves the impression that you're speaking for
069the district when you're not. That's what we saw in this case. uh from their district email. >> Yes, from the district email suggesting that this was how the district felt on the issue and it was a individual board members view of that issue. So you want to be really clear on disclaimers if you are speaking as an individual and not as a board member and the US Supreme Court has said that's very important too to protect your first amendment rights because a lot of people know your board members. So making clear when you're you're speaking as an individual citizen. Uh another uh board member used their board member email to set up a meeting at his private tutoring company. You can't make these things up. Uh not okay. US Supreme Court uh did lay out
070um a test. Now, this um test really dealt with whether your comments as an individual board member could lead to a civil rights uh lawsuit against the school district. So, the ethics rules are broader than this. Um but I think it's still an important case. Um, if you are saying things uh publicly on social media and you have actual authority to speak on the district's behalf, it's the state's behalf, but on the district's behalf. Um, so you're the board president where in some cases you do have authority to speak. Um, and it looks like you're exercising that authority. uh now you have a an issue where you could make the district liable if you're saying things that undermine civil rights. Um so the actual authority um you know could be something that's established through statute
071ordinance regulation. Um and again there's a few areas where board presidents conferring with the superintendent have some specific authority to deal with emergency situations. Um the US Supreme Court did talk about some other language where perhaps you're so persistently creating the perception in the community that you have authority that that might be enough for the district to be viable. Um so you just want to again think carefully about what you put out there on social media. Um so um one piece I'll mention I I'll do it through this scenario. Uh, this is a nice transition from ethics into the harassment, intimidation, and bullying piece. So, uh, there's a non-tenured middle school principal, Mr. No Waves. Uh, he's informed that Jason, a seventh grader and son of the board president, is accused of bullying another student.
072He directs the anti-bullying specialist to start an investigation, contacts the parents, including the board president, Mr. Protective. Uh the next morning, the board president comes to visit the school at 8:00 a.m. and asks to immediately meet with Mr. Noves to discuss the incident. He says he has critical information the principal needs to hear right away. Any concerns yet with this scenario? >> I would be concerned that he didn't make an appointment and go through the proper channels, >> okay, >> as a parent, not as a board president and that he didn't say he was the board president and that he should be seen. Okay. So, um going through the proper channels. Now, do other parents sometimes say I need to speak to the principal immediately? >> Yes. >> Sure. >> So, there is some triage
073>> that we do have to go through. Um I haven't given you the rest of the scenario yet, but it's possible that there is >> is that the essence scenario? >> It ultimately you'll see it's not if it was that would >> more gray area. >> Yes. But as a board president, should shouldn't you know >> the channels more than the average parent? >> You should. Yes, you should. >> Um, >> we we hear about him all the time. >> Of course. Of course. >> So, >> remember you have your parental rights. >> You don't you never surrender. >> No, I I I I wouldn't say that you give up your rights, but I think you should follow the rule that you should be better at following those rules. Sometimes I know in the heat
074of whatever's going on it's easy to understand that but also to understand why you might be spo you know like the superintendent might say well you know we have to follow the chain of command and do what needs to be done. >> Absolutely right. >> So I'll give you a little more information in this scenario. >> Principal says he'd be happy to schedule a time to meet later that day. Um the board member responds this can't wait. You know me. I understand better than anyone how busy you are. I wouldn't ask to meet right away if you could wait. Uh principal reluctantly agrees to the meeting. Uh they go behind closed doors. Board president explains that he's running for reelection and his opponent has been looking for dirt on him. >> Well, here it is.
075>> Surprise. >> That if he finds out about the bullying allegation against his son, that'll become public fodder in order to embarrass him. He says, "It won't be good for me, but I'm really worried about how it will impact my son. we shouldn't pay a price just because I'm a board member. As he's getting up to leave, Mr. Protective tells the principal how impressed he is with um Mr. No Way's political acumen and ability to quietly handle issues that could be explosive. You know, that's the kind of skill set that a good principal needs. Has our has our board president violated the >> pretty clear. So, not this is a not so subtle example. Um, keep in mind right that uh you don't have lesser rights as a parent and there could be those urgent
076situations just like any parent where you really need to speak to that principal right away. You always want to ask yourself that question. Is this one of those urgent situations or should I go through the normal course just like any other parent would? Um, and sometimes it's not so easy to be objective because if the issue involves your child, it always feels, >> right? Probably this isn't something that had to happen that second and it shouldn't happen at all. This particular meeting. >> So, oops. >> I kind of think it's your gut reaction to do that as apparent first. >> Yes. And then >> Well, this particular case wasn't a gut reaction. >> No, no, no. And I understand that, but I'm saying like you're you're in many cases states are telling you you got
077to protect. You know, I'm the mama bear. I want to protect. >> Of course. Um so, um quick review of New Jersey's definition of bullying. This is obviously not word for word, but the key points could happen anywhere. You know, keep that in mind. Um could be a single incident. We think of bullying as a pattern of behavior. It doesn't have to be. Um, New Jersey says we have to figure out the motive and that can sometimes frustrate people, right? One student hits another on the playground. Um, if we can't figure out why, then it can't be labeled as harassment, intimidation, or bullying. Doesn't mean that you ignore it. Getting that message across to parents is important, too. Um, but in order for it to be HIV, you need to know the characteristic. You are
078looking through the eyes of the alleged victim. What is that student perceiving? Why do they think they were targeted? And then asking, was that a reasonable perception? I think there's a good reason that our state has said to do it that way because if you did it the other way and tried to get into the mind of the aggressor, what do students often say when they're accused of doing something? I was just kidding. >> I didn't mean it. >> Um, if that defense worked, an awful lot of things um could happen that students wouldn't be able to count. Right? So you're looking through the eyes of a victim and what they're perceiving. Um it does have to be something that causes substantial disruption or interference with with rights of a student. So sometimes there's an
079issue that happens between two students. Um five minutes later they're laughing, they're playing together, they're just fine. Um but the parents are furious and the parents might not let it go for the rest of the school year, but the students have moved on. So, the test is, is there a major change from the students baseline? That's what you're looking for for bullying. Um, and the same behavior that could be incredibly upsetting for one student might roll off another student's back and that student might not think twice about it. Doesn't mean the behavior is okay, but in order for it to be bullying, you need impact that is beyond just that moment. So it could be the same type of incident and one could be a hip and one could help. >> Yes. I'll give you
080an example. Um there was a case involving a school spirit day. Um students were asked to wear school colors. Uh one of the school colors happened to be yellow. Student comes into school um who didn't wear yellow. The student was Asian. Another student says to him something very hurtful. I can't believe you're not wearing yellow. You're Asian. You're always yellow. Wildly inappropriate. The parent finds out that comment was made, files a bullying complaint, district investigates, determines it did happen, concludes it's not bullying because for that student, the parent was furious, but the student didn't think twice. I'm fine. Um, there was no evidence of any change in demeanor. The student wasn't afraid to come to school. They were doing great academically. They were just as outgoing as they had been uh before the incident. Um,
081so it was a code of conduct violation, but it was not bullying because it didn't cause substantial disruption for that student. For lots of other kids, that would have been devastating, >> understandably so, right? And it would have been bullying. So that is not an easy part of the law to explain. Again, behavior is never okay, but to be bullied, you have to have impact on the student. Not to step on the toes of the presentation, but to give an example, and correct me if if this is inaccurate, but what I have seen before is also a situation where there's multiple alleged aggressors. And while their actions may have been nearly identical in what they were doing, the alleged victim only perceived it to be a problem with this one individual and not the two
082others. So even though they were doing the same thing, um you know, you can have one uh bullying instance filed against three people and only one of them is founded even if they're doing the exact same thing. >> Yeah, >> that's hard to explain to parents as well. >> Really hard to explain, >> but you have to have the direct um impact on the victim because of the aggressor. And now the one time where the adults have to um use their judgment uh is if a student because of developmental delays because of a student's disability is unable to understand what is happening and the harm that's being done. Um but there is harm being done. So that would be the one time where the student might truthfully say no I'm not upset but you're seeing
083that the student is now ostracized. you're seeing the impact as the adults and that's where you could still find but typically it has to be the student who was impacted. Um and you have to be able to identify exactly what the harm is. Could be physical, could be emotional, could be fear, could be that it was something demeaning to that student or something that the student, you know, now has a hostile environment in school. They really can't perform. They're failing where they were great student. Uh so you always want to have a clear harm to have bullying. Um often what we find is conflict and not bullying, right? Um the incident that was reported is something that happens on a playground. The district investigates and finds out it's part of an ongoing conflict that's been
084going on for weeks. The in isolation, the one-time incident looks like bullying, but what you really have going on many times is mutual engagement. And if you have mutual engagement, it's almost always conflict and not bullying. I say almost always because it's not just the number of comments, it's also the nature of the comments. So there was one example recently where you had two students sort of mocking each other because of their athletic ability. It was a conflict until one of the students decided to make all sorts of anti-semitic comments. And what the commissioner said was it's not just the number of comments, it's the nature of the comments as well. And that elevated it to an HIV issue. So um important to to always look at context. Your role just like in other areas
085of course starts with policy. Um making sure that you have personnel who have the necessary resources and training. Um most folks when they uh completed their graduate programs um whether you're a school counselor or an administrator or a teacher, you didn't get much training on how to do an investigation, right? Uh that's really not in much of what we see in our graduate work. Um but it's training that people need. So making sure that folks have that training. Um conducting hearings if requested. One thing I would say about a hearing, if a parent asks for one, um, you obviously want to give that parent every opportunity to tell you, you know, why they disagree with the outcome of the investigation. So, I would not create a a stringent time limit on a parent. Well, you
086have five minutes in close session and whatever you can say in five minutes. That's a mistake. But I also think it's a mistake um for the parent to be allowed to start cross-examining staff members. Some districts actually have allowed that. Uh what you have every right to do if a parent is raising a lot of issues that you want more information on, you have a right in closed session after that parent leaves that closed session to still gather more information and have your questions answered because there is the potential for litigation. So it's perfectly appropriate for you to do that. I'm not sure you want all of that to play out in front of the parent. So, that's your judgment, but um probably a more efficient process for you to take in the concerns and
087then have the ability to ask whatever followup you need. But if a parent comes to us after we have voted to substantiate or unsubstantiate and they want to appeal it to us then can we take the information in as you know do you know like they've had we we >> you already voted. >> Yeah. And we dealt with the HI on this on the validity of what was put before us. So now we're taking it back. So, what's interesting in New Jersey law doesn't make as much sense as it should. Um, I'll say that. So, don't shoot the messenger, but parents have um 60 days to ask for a hearing, which means there's a chance they wait and ask for the hearing after you have voted, right? oftentimes they'll ask for the hearing before you
088vote, uh, which is the better process so that you can hear whatever the concerns are, but it might come afterwards and then you still have to give them that hearing. Um, and if some new information comes out when you're when you have that close session hearing, it's possible the district might have to reopen the investigation if there was something new that hadn't been heard before. >> Does it go down a wormhole then with the other parent? You know, that's what >> there's always the potential that now if you do overturn a decision, the other parent has rights, too, and the other parent uh could then challenge that new decision that's been reached. So, both parents have rights. >> How long can that go on? >> That's a good question. Um >> like where does where
089does the line get drawn? Because we keep pushing 60 days. >> The way it go stops once you are no longer getting new information. It has to there has to be some new piece of information that wasn't already um reviewed. >> That's the key >> with the original HIB or or the original potential HI or new information on new things that may may have occurred >> since the original either. Right. So um certainly it could be a new witness who comes forward on the original hit and that would be something that would force you to reconsider do we need to reach a different conclusion based on this new witness. Of course if there is a new incident >> that starts a new investigation and you know the process starts all over that new incident. >>
090Now that's where the so if there's an appeal to the appeal and then there's no new information being presented that's when the next level appeal goes to commissioner. >> Yes. And that's where um if there's no new information, you can appropriately say there's no need for another hearing. >> You're just disagreeing with the result. Yeah. >> There's not some new piece of information you're asking us to look at. Um so, you know, just like we talked about in the ethics rules, somebody brings a complaint about a bullying incident, um if it comes to you, you refer it back to the superintendent. Superintendent makes sure it comes through the channels. So, oops. trying to get this to cooperate. >> I I have a question actually on the information gathering piece during the appeal. >> Yes. Um,
091so if if more information is needed following the appeal because there's questions that are raised and we discuss those in close session, I would assume that that administration should be sort of the filter for or the uh should be tasked with gathering that information. Um, would it be appropriate to uh to rice an employee and bring them in to to speak to the board collectively or is that something that should be more handled by administration than brought back and presented? Typically, um, what you want to do is gather as much information as you can as an administrative team. >> Yeah. >> Um, and if there is, if there are new witnesses, uh, new social media post, new video you didn't know about before, assessing that and then, um, bringing that back to the board once
092you've kind of done that. I think that's the best process to to follow there. Um, most efficient process. >> That's been our process. I just want to make sure that we're done. >> There's one question on that. not that you would ever do this. Um the the fil the filter of information there's new information down. How how much control of the filtering information does the administration have in presenting it to the board? >> Well, you have a right to know um you know is what's the new information? Is there a new witness? >> Well, if they don't bring it to us, we don't know the information. >> Well, but I'm saying they should bring it to you efficiently. do do the um additional investigation as administrative team. Um and then if there is new information,
093it has to be brought to you. Right? So that's the key. If there is new information that you didn't have before, that does require the district to look again at the result that was reached and reopen the investigation. >> So raw and unfiltered. >> Well, you Yes. But I wouldn't say just raw and unfiltered. That's not so helpful to you, right? Because part of what you're relying on is the administrative team to assess the credibility of that information to see if it can be corroborated. So, um, that's not something that you can do to start doing the investigation. You have the right to know what the raw information was, but it's much more helpful for you to know whether it is credible information and why or why not. And I think to to speak to
094Mr. Lupy's point, if um if there was a concern in them holding holding me accountable or holding us accountable collectively would um so let's say let's say that separately from the board someone a member of the community goes to a board member and you know presents them with information they feel like they should have had from me. um what would how would they handle that? >> So I think the way that would be handled is for that board member to go back to you and say this is what I was told from a community member and either it is new information or it's perhaps something that wasn't explained as clearly as it could have been. >> Yeah. >> Um so it's one of those two things, right? and then the board has a right to
095know um the new information or the clarification on the information we are looking at. Remember what you're getting by necessity is a summary, right? Um there could be 20 witnesses. They all could have had elaborate statements. Um and it's not possible to hear everything said by every person. So, uh, it's possible that it didn't make the summary, but, um, asking the question helps you figure that out, right? So, you do want to make sure you meet your timelines. Um, one thing I always say to a district is even if you have a huge issue, you know, with social media, you could have an incident where there are 50 students who made comments they shouldn't have made on social media, they all might engage in cyber bullying. you probably won't be finished with that investigation in
09610 school days. So, the district is not violating state law. If it takes longer to do an investigation, but what you really want to do is always um submit a report. So, 10 days to investigate, two more days to write a report. The report might say, "We're not done yet, and here's the reason why. There are 100 people to interview or a key witness has been out sick for the last two weeks." Um but you know you should be apprised um that there is an investigation. This is the reason it's not yet finished at that point in time. Um once the investigation is uh finished um it's reported to you at the next board meeting. Uh so of course there's a two meeting process for you at a minimum. One meeting where you learn about
097the outcome and then a subsequent meeting where you go right. Uh, in the meantime, the parent might ask for a hearing or they might wait until after you vote and still be within their 60 days to ask for a hearing. Um, parents ask for a hearing. You have that hearing and then if it is before your next board meeting, you go to the next board meeting. Um, parents of course can appeal. They can go to the commissioner. They have 90 days to appeal your decision. >> Is there responsibility on the administration's report to explain to parents? they have 60 to 90 days or is that something that they should >> It's a good practice. Um I it's not there's no specific mandate that I recall that about the 60-day piece. Um >> I believe we
098may have it in policy. It is part of our practice for sure. It's in the letter, but I think >> that that's policy driven. We have we have a pretty extensive policy on this. So I believe the Strauss estimate policy, so it's probably not unique to us, >> does dictate that we communicate that. I I I'm not 100% certain of that, but I but I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is our practice. >> So it certainly I always urge districts be transparent and make sure parents have their rights, right? >> Um it builds trust when folks just like we do in special education, explaining to parents their rights, I think is really important. Um, all right. I'll jump into this one. Um, summer conduct. Something happens over the summer and school district
099finds out about it in September. Um, it's still something that could be. It's less likely, right? Something happened in July. Um time helps with these issues u but it still could be causing substantial disruption in September. So um it's important to understand those are still issues um if somebody is alleging bullying that would have to be investigated. Now technically you have more time. The students are not in summer school. The alleged incident happened over the summer. the district would have the first 10 days of the next school year to finish the investigation. But I do urge districts always try to do it sooner, right? Um it's harder because maybe nobody cooperates, they don't come in, but I would attempt to do the investigation soon if possible. Um substantial disruption. Um it's not a simple question.
100So, but these are some of the common sense things uh that I always urge districts to think about if you're trying to figure out was there substantial disruption? Is the student missing school? Are they missing class? Are they not doing well academically? Did they stop participating in sports? Are they no longer hanging out with their friends? Um, are they behaving differently and getting in trouble themselves where they never did before? Are they changing their routine? On the other hand, are they just getting along just fine with the other student? And there's no evidence that there's any fear, there's any disruption. Um, so those are sort sort of the common sense things you want to look for to figure out was there substantial disruption. There's a few more, but you sort of get the idea. You're
101trying to get a sense of is there a major change from baseline AI complicates things of course artificial intelligence. Um, we have seen wonderful uses of artificial intelligence and some horrific uses of artificial intelligence. So, there was another New Jersey school district that got national attention because um a group of high school boys took the u photographs of female students from I think it was from the yearbook um used those photographs and created fake um sexually explicit images of those female students and disseminated them throughout the school. um horrific um potential crimes involved there although I wish our criminal laws were clearer on that issue um but also sexual harassment which is a form of harassment intimation of bullying. So some people across the country have tried to say, well, you can't punish somebody if
102the image isn't real. The harm is real >> and the impression that the image is real is enough because of the harm you're causing for students. So we are seeing unfortunately some of those examples. Um and um uh the US Department of Justice has said they are looking at that the same as if the images were real as far as analyzing it for potential crimes. Um I think New Jersey is doing the same. Um we'll see how our courts treat it, but I think that is the correct legal interpretation. Um New Jersey is putting out more guidance. This um the department put out a guidance memo last June. Since then they they have a website that has a lot of good resources. Um I think it's really useful. Have you adopted a policy yet on
103AI? >> We uh have the policy from the policy alert through Strauss ESM. >> Um we are waiting until so the the policy is basically dictating that you as a district have a an AI plan. So we are in the process of developing our plan before we adopt policy so that we know that they appropriately align. But it's been a discussion at our committee level including last week and our hope is to uh um make sure that we're you know kind of ready to go roll it out all at once but we we will have something in place within the next month or two before the year is over. >> I think it's wonderful um very complicated you know I hate to say it but um AI deep thinks are getting better and better so
104that does make investigations more difficult. you might have something that looks like a very credible video or audio um that is not actually authentic. So, it becomes more important than ever to corroborate evidence, to try to look for multiple sources. Uh there was a case recently where a student used AI um to create a fake audio of a principal saying horrific things and it took the principal a while to prove that it was AI and the principal hadn't actually sent these things. Um very very scary. Oops. The law was changed in 2021. Um there is heightened scrutiny if the district allows for preliminary determinations. Do you have that in your policy? The option for preliminary determinations? >> We do. Um I think our principles use it relatively sparingly just because um it would need to
105be something relatively obvious um in order for them to be willing to say that we don't need to be investigating. >> So it it is um it's a good option. I think it's a good common sense thing. It's not mandated, but um sometimes you'll have a uh an allegation of bullying, but there is no alleged characteristic. By definition, without a characteristic, it can't be bullied. Um sometimes the there's an allegation of bullying, but both students have already said they were mutually engaging in conflict back and forth. And if you read what they have both already admitted to and said, by definition, they've just described a conflict. and not voting. So, I think it's a good common sense option, but it has to be used appropriately. Um, now New Jersey does say if you use that
106option, um, has to get to the superintendent same day. So, you know, it right away. Um, twice a year, you need to know how many times that option is used. Twice a year it's reported to the state of New Jersey. And parents of course have a right to know that the option was used as opposed to an investigation. And of course parents if they disagree they can come to you with that issue too. Well I think there should be an investigation. Uh so parents always have those rights. Um if you have a student who has a third confirmed bullying case, the district does have to have an intervention plan for that student. So >> with with the same victim? No, >> no, it doesn't have to be the same victim, but it's if it's the
107same aggressor three times, even if it's three different victims, the district now needs an intervention plan for that aggressor. Um, it's the only limitation is did the three incidents happen in your district or if there were one or two in a prior district, that doesn't count for this mandate. >> It's cumulative over the years. >> Cumulative over the years. Now, this is interesting. This is um the one time today where I will point out our analysis differs from the New Jersey Department of Ed. So take it for what it's worth. But if you read the statute itself, it says whenever you get to three confirmed incidents, for some reason the Department of Ed guidance says it has to be three incidents in one year. The law doesn't say that anywhere. It just says once you
108get to three confirmed incidents, there has to be a plan. So, you know, we urge districts to have a plan. Um it never hurts to have one. One of the primary reasons and I I know we've discussed this as a board because we just since I in the past few months we've updated the revised um preliminary decision but the main reason that we did that was um because if an investigation is done even if it is unfounded you uh you're still attaching ing a student ID number to your report related to that. So, um I think the idea was to protect against if something was completely fabricated, um we would want to rule out even investigating that so that you're not attaching something to a student ID number in the state reporting system. Um but
109if there's any question in the gray, like if it's in the gray area at all, you know, we encourage the principles to investigate just to be certain that uh there's not more to it. >> That makes a lot of sense, right? Right. I mean, when in doubt, investigate. Um, but I I think if you have something that clearly doesn't meet that definition, it wouldn't make a lot of sense. Um, so a few examples from case law that we can learn from. Um, here was a case where you had a lunch aid who allegedly bullied a student. Remember, the aggressor could be a staff member, too. Uh it turns out this was found not to be bullying um because it was just a mean lunch aid and they couldn't figure out any reason that the lunch
110aid was targeting that particular student. And that's frustrating. You but you need a characteristic. You you need some motivating factor. So again, I don't know, but I assume the district took other action against the lunch aid. You shouldn't be need to kids even if it's not bullying. um but it didn't meet the HIV definition. Um this was an interesting case where you had a um non-tender teacher who felt like um he was being treated unfairly because he filed too many bullying complaints. So um he thought that the district decided to let him go because he was driving them crazy with bullying allegations. and a court um said, "All right, you have a right to try to make your case." Um I don't know what the real facts are, but I can tell you that if
111you look at uh what was reported uh by the court, it certainly seems like we have a teacher who's having a hard time with classroom management. Non-tenure teacher submitted over 40 bullying complaints in less than two months. I would suggest to me somebody who's having a hard time managing their classroom. Okay. >> Um but uh the person also was upset um that a student had said, "Well, I'm going to get my uncle's gun." That was reported to the district. Um the teacher was upset that that student was not expelled or was not suspended for months on end and allowed to come back. So the teacher concluded the district hadn't done anything. Um that same two weeks later um that same teacher observed another incident involving that uh students um teacher breaks up um an altercation
112between that student and another student but the district gathered evidence that he used excessive force. So this non-tenure teacher who was struggling with classroom management using excessive force was let go and sued and said I think I'm being let go because I'm complaining too much about bullying. The court said he has a right to make his case. So obviously we can't retaliate against staff members who are in good faith reporting what they think is bullying. I suspect um that there's a good chance that this is a teacher struggling with classroom management without without knowing for sure. Some other case a lot to learn from kids can be endlessly creative. Um so I guess that's glass half full, right? So there was a case where a student um knew that another student had a peanut allergy.
113So, um ate a bunch of peanuts while at lunch and then started grabbing the student's belongings um and touching the student. Uh the student obviously became very upset, could have become very ill, didn't get seriously ill. Um that was found to be bullying. What was the characteristic? Nut allergy. The student was targeted because he had an allergy. The other student thought it would be fun. Uh there was a case years ago when the law first came out. fourth grader had come into school who had lice. Um, another student says to the class, you know, she has lice. It's her fault that we all were all getting lice. Um, bullying complaint was filed. The parent says, "This can't be bullying. I raised my child to tell the truth." And how can she be in trouble for
114bullying when she is just telling the truth? commissioner said by fourth grade you should know that it's going to be really embarrassing when you app the student um who has lice and sort of make fun of for having lies. So truth is not always a defense. Not every truth has to be spoken and that is still boundary. Um we did have a case involving gender identity. A couple of cases we've had involving gender identity. This one um struck me because it was very young student, second grade. So you had a um student who had transitioned uh had previously been known to classmates as a boy, had transitioned uh was now um communicating to everyone as a girl. That can be really confusing. Um so the second graders were counseledled on this issue. The parent allowed
115them to be educated and the students were all fine except for one student who kept saying, you know, stop pretending you're a girl and was saying really hurtful things. The district tried to counsel that student individually multiple times. The behavior continued. They ultimately concluded it was bullying. I think they did it the right way because they didn't jump to bully. They counseledled. They counseledled again. They counseledled again. But ultimately the commissioner said even at second grade you should eventually understand what you're saying is causing harm. Right? So um you do consider the age of a student when you're considering whether they should have known what they're saying is causing harm. Um and I think the district ultimately did that here. Some additional case law. Um there was a case where a parent was upset um
116that her child was sitting alone. They were um on a flight to this national cheerleading competition and this one student was all by herself and the rest of the team wasn't sitting with her and she got really upset and she told her mother um about this. Mother files a bullying complaint. My child is being bullied. Um she's being ostracized and isolated. commissioner looked at it and said basically um we can't force kids to be friends, right? That's not so certainly it still is something the district should help with. You want to help students make connections, but just because students aren't actively socializing doesn't mean that they're um another case involving AI. Um, we had a case where a student tried to be clever um and was able to get artificial intelligence to use the nword.
117The student didn't directly use the nword, but by the prompting that the student did got AI to use that word. And the student tried to say, well, I didn't do it. It was AI. Um, school district said, you were trying to have this result. Um, you had the result. you did it, right? So, we we'll see more and more cases like this where students try to say, "Was it me? It was artificial intelligence that did this." Um, I mentioned this third one. This was one that sort of started as a typical conflict between two students about athletic ability, but then one student significantly changed the scenario by um making anti-semitic comments. So, at that point, what had been a typical conflict turned into bullying. Um, another case involved inappropriate touching of a student. This was
118an interesting case, the U. Jefferson Township one. You had a student who had a disability who didn't understand boundaries and the district did conclude that it was part of the disability and the student they were working on it, but the student still sometimes had inappropriate touching. Um, even though it was a manifestation of a disability, it was still bullying. And that's an important case to recognize. What the state of New Jersey has said is that um if the behavior meets the definition, you're looking through the eyes of the victim and what they're perceiving. The victim perceived that she was being touched inappropriately because that she's female. And that was a reasonable perception even though the reality was it was because of the student's disability and the student not understanding appropriate versus inappropriate touching. So still
119hit of course it changes the way you respond. Um a suspension probably wouldn't do much to change behavior, right? So you think about different responses so that students can understand why that's not appropriate. >> When you talk about perception of the victim because this is something that comes up. Um, you know, sometimes you'll have a difference between the perception of the parent of the alleged victim and the perception of the victim that you're speaking with or the alleged victim that you're speaking with. And I think where it gets tricky, you know, if it's middle school, high school, where you can reasonably um make the determination that that the alleged victim is speaking with an understanding of the situation and um that you can take their viewpoint into perspective, it's a lot easier to say, "Well,
120I I understand that mom feels this way, but clearly that's not what we're seeing with the student." The younger you go, the harder that is to do. If it's a kindergartener and you know you have a parent saying, "Well, based on what they're saying at the dinner table when they come home, this is what's going on with my child, even though your um your investigation or your interviews are not showing that." Um how do you how do you >> Great questioning, right? Um so what a student tells you who is an alleged victim, you know, we take very seriously, but it's not the entire picture. uh the student might say, "I'm fine. I'm fine. This didn't bother me." But you talk to the teacher, you talk to the parent, the student is crying, their demeanor
121has changed. So, what you're looking for is a change from baseline behavior. One way to find that out is to talk to the student directly, but you also can get that from other sources. And that's true for any student. It could be an older student, too. Typically, if it's an older student, it's a student who just doesn't want to tell you that they've been bullied. Younger student might not have the language, might not be able to express it quite as clearly >> or understand as much what >> or understand what's happening, but you are looking for actual impact. So, what you described is different from the parent who's furious and the student who's not impacted. We see that too. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> So, trying to tell the difference between those two is really
122important. Um so we saw um case involving weight. Um we've seen a number of those. This was a student who created a sheet meme on social media targeting other student because of weight and appearance. That was bullying. Um this last one surprised me. There was a student who had come to school and had a a Nerf gun. Not okay, right? So the student was disciplined for that. Other students found out that the student had brought this fake gun to school and they started calling the student shooter. District um parents filed a bullying complaint. Commissioner said it was not bullying. Um I will confess I'm having a hard time understanding the commissioner's thought process on this one particular case. Seems to me it's a characteristic or a perceived characteristic. Um the commissioner I think was saying
123that um everybody understood that they didn't really think the student was a shooter. >> That's the best >> I can understand the commissioner's thinking on that one. But uh don't ask me to fully explain that thinking. I'll confess it's the one case I've had a hard time understanding. Uh the commissioner did say that um there was no real characteristic involved and if the students had made fun of the other student for a mental disability that would have been different. If the students had truly believed the student was a shooter, uh that would have been different. Um hard time I had that one, but >> skip it. >> Yeah, I figured I have to give you one case I can't explain. Um last case I'll or last thing I'll point out if I go back one
124slide it might not let me go back but I gave you a few cases where there was no intent but there was still both. So keep that in mind right it's not about the intent of the aggressor it's about the impact on the victim and the perception of the victim as long as it's reasonable. >> The perception is the key right? >> Perception is the key. Yeah. that of course some students um might be hyper sensitive and could perceive that they are being targets when it's not a reasonable perception. >> That is the other piece to that puzzle. >> Questions that um >> I have a question going back to the ethics portion of um the presentation. a lot of us on the board are parents or grandparents within the district and I'm just wondering
125where that line is because I feel like it sometimes gets blurred and I know you you touched on um the discipline as aspect of it but what about like volunteerism being in the schools you know being part of the book fair or um even like giving um my kids teachers holiday gifts like how does that um play in? >> So um you always want to go back to are you doing something that um is not okay for other parents to do, >> right? Um so if it's a you know common practice that um you might have parents give a small token uh to a staff member, some sort of a gift um and you're not doing something out of the ordinary. I wouldn't see an ethics issue there. um you're giving the teacher gave your
126child an a gold watch it starts to look more >> so it's like a dimminimous sort of a >> I think I think that's right yes dimminimous and consistent >> okay >> in previous ethics uh uh presentations we were told that if you are participating as a volunteer at an event don't handle money >> because that could cause so certainly a good practice. Um, if you start handling funds, you know, the last thing you want is anything that puts you in a position where somebody could say you did something inappropriate. >> What about um like joining the PTA or we have a newly formed ED foundation, right? Joining these um organizations where we then may have to vote on something regarding them. >> So, you need to be careful, right? because you could put yourself
127in a position where you have to recuse yourself from any votes or any real discussion of that issue because it could it could at least create the perception of some sort of an unwarranted advantage to the organization that you're sympathetic to and part of. So it doesn't mean you can't do it, but you need to be really diligent. So like like if all nine of us joined our newly formed education foundation then we literally couldn't vote on any donation they gave us. >> Well there is a separate stat there is a separate legal principle called the doctrine of necessity >> which you would probably invoke at that point. Um right you have to have a you have to be able to act as a district. But is it in those cases where these are um
128different groups that help the the board of ed itself is it better to have like liaison like we do with like what parks and rec rather than being because like I I'm on the municipal alliance as a liaison but I have no voting right there. >> The liaison role is a is a much >> right that's she's there as a board member member not >> as opposed to a member of municipal alliance. But wouldn't it be better to have like a liaison to that group rather than >> even though you want to be a member or you you support their their cause? >> It it kind of takes the the questionability out of when you vote on something because >> yes, >> they're giving money to the schools, you know. >> So, it's a much
129cleaner approach to the issue. Um and it you know goes sort of with your mission of promoting community engagement um and being you know liaison to various community uh groups like that is a better approach than being a member of that group which you can do but then you have to be really diligent about recusal. >> So I think I think that that example is can be relatively straightforward. I think a PTA might be a little different because now you're like your willingness and desire to be involved in some of the things going on at the school becomes uh challenged because it's hard to be a an active parent in that capacity if you can't vote on the things that they're doing here. I guess what what I would what I would be curious to
130hear is if you're not involved if you're if you're a member of the organization and you're volunteering at events and you're doing things in in in that realm but you're not involved in the active decision making of those separate organizations does that in any way impact your ability to vote on those things? Um, interesting question, right? I mean, to the extent that you're just volunteering and not involved in decision making, uh, probably you have more leeway >> as a board member, uh, to still be able to vote. Um, you know, if there's a close call, I would try to be proactive >> and and things like advisory opinions, >> right? Just to be on the safe side with something like that. Um so you know certainly you have the right to volunteer but um part
131of the issue you want to think about is perception. Is there even a perception that this group is being treated differently >> Because you're part of it. >> Yeah. >> Right. That's that's that's where the allegation comes of an unwarranted advantage. >> So if one grammar school gets more attention from the board because a member is on that PTA versus one across town. >> Yes. That's where it becomes an issue. You always want to think unwarranted advantages. that's what we want to avoid >> or the perception of unwarranted advantages which you then have to try to explain away >> which is also probably a more common issue for us to face right because I think that that's >> that's um people can have those concerns even if there's nothing to them at all and even
132if every member of this board is is behaving uh as appropriately as they can as as transparently as they can doesn't mean that it's going to be perceived that way by everybody. >> That's right. That's right. and that, you know, there's no easy way to fix that, but just um being transparent and letting the public understand, you know, we are treating all of our schools equally and fairly and, you know, giving examples of that and getting folks to to see the reality of the situation goes a long way. >> Other questions? >> I hope this was helpful. >> Very much so. You know, I appreciate uh I don't know that everyone in the community always understands how much time you put in as board members. Even though it was 30 years ago, I remember the
133meetings that ended at midnight or 1 in the morning. So, I appreciate how hard >> forget them. >> Yes. [Laughter] >> Thank you so much. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Thank you. That's just really good. I like the way [Music] All right. Thank you, Mr. Nash. And next on the agenda is any amendments to the agenda on Dr. kitchen. >> Uh so there there is uh one change which you'll see under uh number 11 amendments. So um with our shift to board docs, what you can expect is the agenda as presented to you will always be accurate because any changes will be in there live before your voting. But just in case you viewed the agenda Friday when it went live and didn't follow up uh after that until we're sitting here tonight,
134you want to know what changes might be there because it might be harder to spot especially in a large agenda. So um the way we've built it out is we have um put in uh that number 11 section amendments to the agenda so you can view exactly what those amendments are um and you'll know what the changes are. The other thing that you'll see is there is also going to be um a section in there for hand carries. And that way it's sort of clearly uh showing you if something has been added after the fact. Um that will live there all the time whether it's got something in it or not. So that something could be added. You'll know that there are no hand carries if that section is empty when we get to it.
135So uh just so you're aware that's how that's being built out. The other thing that you uh will notice I and it may not actually be on the agenda for this evening, but you'll notice in our regular session is um when we're when we're bringing uh certain things forward, well, we have some conflicted board members on certain routine items where we know that they're conflicted. And so, in the past, our agendas, paper agendas have had individual motions broken out. So, Mr. Lippy, you're regularly carrying six different times you're you're making motions to to pass things through. uh for those routine items. Um what you're going to see is um is recommended abstensions based on >> conflicts that we know exist. Those will not be the only items that you may need to abstain from, but
136they're ones that we know you routinely would abstain from. The purpose for of that is it allows us to vote with carrying them as a large block. um and you'd be voting with the recommended abstensions. However, if there's additional items that you would individually choose to abstain from, you know, we're not it won't be built into the agenda that everything you would want to abstain from would be on there. It would still be your responsibility to make sure you're you're appropriately taking action based on the items, but the routine ones are there. Um so, I think that is hopefully helpful in in efficiently getting through the agenda. So when you're asking for our vote, we would just say yes. >> You could say yes with abstensions. Although I believe in all likelihood when we get
137to sections like that that I and I don't want to speak for you, but I think the question might be posed to you with those abstensions. But uh but I think that if for whatever reason it we're not we'll get used to this obviously with a new procedure, but I think you could easily say yes with abstensions. Um, and I think that will just clean things up and it still everything kind of carries at once and it's obvious. Um, so we're looking to to make it as efficient as we can already. >> So, I thank you for bringing us out of the 1900s collective effort. >> All right. Thank you, Dr. Kitchen. Okay. So, can I have a motion to adopt the agenda? Um, I move to adopt the agenda as presented. >> Second. All
138those in favor? I. >> Any opposed? >> Okay. >> I won't draw our attention to all those things every time. I'm doing it here this time, so we're speaking on it, but then going forward, you kind of just know. >> And so 13, special action, there are no hand carries, so we can skip that one. Um 13.1 and 13.2. And also 14. Um special action. We do have that. So, Mrs. Rakano, um, can you move 14.1? >> Is that how we do it? 14 >> through 14.11. >> I move under um under personnel um items 141 through 1411. Second. Any more? >> Um, >> any discussion? >> Yes, Mrs. Roano. >> Um, under um 14.5, I just want to commend the administration for um finding these candidates. I know it's been a long go and
139um to find a a qualified teacher midy year, I think it's really pulling a a needle out of a hay stack. So, um, great job. >> Any other discussion? >> Move to close. >> No, second. >> Oh, yeah. I don't think do that. >> You just have to call the wrong. >> Yeah. So, no, I thought you were reaching for your mic, Mrs. Vanag. That's >> I'm sorry. >> No, that's okay. I was >> looking at the light. Okay, roll call. >> Look on, >> Mr. Schulz. >> Okay, >> Mr. Satovich, >> yes. >> Mr. Lippy, >> yes. >> Mrs. Lockwood, >> yes. >> Mrs. Markwart, >> yes. >> Mrs. Rakano, >> yes. >> Mrs. Van Djk, >> yes. >> Mr. Gorino, >> yes. >> Okay. Uh, Miss Deppipe, uh, can you move 15.1 through
14015.3? >> Like to move 15.1 through 15.3 is second. >> Any discussion? >> Oh, sorry. 15.4. >> That's roll. >> Yeah. Uhif. Yeah. Question. >> Oh, I see. >> 15.3 >> the increased expense in the board docks. This is the expansion for the staff administrators. >> So, in the Yeah. So, in in Friday's um update to that was that was what I was discussing there where it it's there's a couple of features that it will expand for us that I think are going to be really really useful for the way that we use it until we got kind of into board docs. We didn't fully realize that. Um but it allows us to separate governing bodies. So for example, we can like the same way we're logging into view our routine agenda, we can set
141up our committees in a way that adjusts access. So if you remember during committee, we were talking about, you know, what we can put forward for you to view. So when we're creating a a public agenda, there's a lot more hands in the pot for something like that than there would be at the individual committee level. So we can change um how we assign sort of different governing bodies within those individual committees. I think that would be is really helpful. And then one of the big pieces is it we think it really cleans up our way that we can use it for um the executive uh for the confidential updates. Um instead of it existing in that sort of library piece, we can create a a entity within board docs that allows us to do
142the updates that way. And it protects those rights. I think it protects us uh more appropriately for um any OPRA violations or anything like any uh any OPAR issues. Um so it's we believe it's going to be a better way for us to function just because of the the functionality that it gives us. We can sort of create any body that we want to within there and give assign the appropriate rights. Whereas if we only operate with the current setup, the rights are assigned one time and then anybody who has access can view it uh can can view anything on that level. So for example, people who have editable access to our primary agenda to put motions forward to the board office would then theoretically be able to view things that are in that, you
143know, executive summary to all of you as board members. So we'd like to protect some of those things. I think without it, it would require us to take certain elements out of board docs and and handle them differently. This allows us to keep everything in one place. >> The heat seat option is nice. >> It it is it's it's something it's something that we weren't really aware of until we were using it. Um if if we were aware, we would have brought it forward right out of the gate. The reality is I know we discussed this when we first put everything forward. We were surprised at the initial price being as low as it was and and then we're like, "Oh, well, there's more options that we may have we have may have not realized
144we didn't have." So, it kind of puts us right where we expected to be in the first place, but um but not until we actually saw it did we know that. >> Gotcha. Thank you. >> Any other discussion? >> See nonco please. Mr. Schultz. >> Mr. Stovich? >> Yes. >> Mr. Lippy? >> Yes. >> Mrs. Lockwood? Yes, >> Mrs. Markart. >> Yes, >> Mrs. Ricardo. >> Yes, >> Mrs. Van Djk. >> Yes, >> Mr. Aguino. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh 16 and 17 both are hang carries for personnel and operations and finance. We don't have any hang carries for those so we can skip to 18. Um education, Mr. Sitovich. >> The following items are for discussion. Any discussion? >> 18. >> Yeah. 18.1 through 18.9. >> Any discussion? Yes, Mrs. Fano. I'm really excited
145to see um the grant opportunity to build out um the esports industry career exploration. I think a lot of um we we saw this at school boards and I'm really excited to bring this program to a population of kids who I think are sometimes under reppresented in our schools. So >> yeah, agree with that. Hey, I don't know if you had anything to do with this, but we talked about this over six years ago, right? >> Proving my ability to fill it out. >> Mr. Novak deserves a ton of credit for for bringing all this forward um and putting in the leg work to to bringing people out. We've done a couple of walkthroughs now, so he's put a lot of effort into this. So, um you know, it's obviously there's more work to be
146done, but tons of credit to Mr. to Novak, uh, but also to our board members that were down at school boards to to, uh, begin this discussion because I think we we were kind of down there together when we when we first saw this and got a little bit of a greater understanding of what it was. And I think calling it esports, uh, honestly doesn't do it justice. It's so much more than that. Um, and that's what we got to see. And I don't think any of us fully appreciated that until we had those conversations and then obviously until Mr. Novc uh brought the individuals here to kind of walk through and and we learned a lot just during the walkthroughs in listening to dialogue between some of these individuals and and um and some
147of our staff members. Some of the conversation was going over our head, but it was really uh enlightening. So, credit to everybody for for the efforts into it and thank you all. And uh similar to the computer science grant, we've just the process of all these investigations and looking at the things that we have, the things that we can add, we see opportunity to add esports in a capacity with or without winning this grant. Similar to the cyber security and the and the computer science grant, we created a plan that we could do even if we didn't win the grant, but we ended up winning the computer science grant. that's really um boosted our our ability to take it to the next level and and I I see um opportunity here. There's a great this
148this particular grant is for uh middle school. So, it's it's written for uh fifth through 8th grade students and that's the target audience for um you know for this this grant recipient. So, uh we're excited about it. great team at Makipin uh you know working with admin and teachers to you know kind of brainstorm out all the things that we could do with it. We have a plan that um we're going to move on in the short term to get it going with or without winning this grant. Winning this grant would just be able to take our you know five-year plan and and make it a one-year plan. >> Okay. Again, I know you've been talking about this for five years. out this this is really good because I don't think that right us on
149the we realize how huge the quote unquote esports is. I mean they fill arenas with these things. >> I I want to thank Dan because when we were down in at workshop I I I it's not something I even understood until we went and I got the idea. When we sat there, we were so excited about what we were seeing. And we did, you saw that we had so much in place that we could be able to move with this even without the grant. But I commend you for getting the grant because this is I think we're going to see a lot of a lot of students that are going to be excited once they see what we're going to do. So, I thank you and I I did I think we all enjoyed the
150presentation and showed us something new that we can maybe light a fire for and keep our kids wanting to be here. >> There's a lot of lot of exciting things in development right now. And uh I'll just tease it there. We're going to do a presentation in February for some really exciting things for our middle school and high school. So, um this is just one more one more piece for that. >> Any other discussion? Okay, seeing none, Mrs. Ricano, uh, personnel vote. >> Nope, we don't vote. It's just a workshop. >> Sorry. >> Um, >> so this is >> 19. Yeah, you're just moving. >> Open it up for discussion. >> Yep. Anticipated action for the budget meeting um, next week. >> Yep. So I move items under 19 through 1919 up for discussion. >>
151Any discussion >> here? >> Yes, Mr. Delic. >> Um seeing Karen McCort retiring um one of my kids first teachers at Asha and she made such a difference in her life. I just want to thank her for that. That's all. >> Yeah, I was uh so we're not voting on this obviously tonight. So, I was going to speak to it next week, but combined those two retirees have um Mrs. McCort and um Mrs. Neba have about 75 years in this district together. >> Wow. >> Combined. So, quite a lot. >> This was their first day when you retire. >> It's crazy. >> Any other discussion? Okay, seeing none, so we can go on to operations and finance. Mr. Lipe, >> we're again discussion, correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. For 20 through 20.7. >> Yep. >>
152Any discussion? No. Okay, seeing none, um we can go on to Mrs. Mcquard uh for policy. >> Yeah. Items 21.1 through 21.4 for discussion. Any discussion for just I have a question just about um policy and board docs. So are we going to um review policy in board docs now? Yes, >> looks like it >> right. >> Yeah. >> I I'm don't know that I understand the question. So like you know how we would get like the yellow papers that had like the old policy and like things crossed out. It's in like when you go. >> Okay. I just wanted to confirm. >> So yeah. So we um yes we will be doing it that way um in our in our committee meeting last week. It was a little clunkier as we were trying to
153figure out how we wanted to do it. Um but we had a discussion about what we wanted to look like going forward. So it will be going through there. And then again, back to the conversation about the change in in uh in Bordox's price and some of the added features that will tweak a little bit what those committees look like, but it'll actually make it much easier for us to put all that information in there. Um and and including the information that helps to drive the discussion from my side of things will be able to be in there as well. >> Great. >> So, okay. If it's on there, the policy that we're reviewing, are is there going to be like that highlighted how we will it be like highlighted? What we're >> the the
154edits? Yeah. So, that'll all be So, that'll be in um that will be in the committee agendas and then shared out in the committee notes so that we can view exactly what it is that we are um that we're changing and then um you know, obviously the notes on on the discussion as well. So, uh, we want to make sure that that you can see exactly what it is that you're voting on, not just the policy as it is presented, but what did change. Um, >> and then again, like I I I get information shared with me that I can use to drive the conversation about the rationale for some of those things. Um, which will be brought to the committee. >> Okay. Any other discussion? Yes, Mr. Lipic. >> Um, under the where are
155we? discussion policy the new I guess this is second reading I think policy um spectator code >> uh for his class in between school events um pull on my wife okay tangled up here um are we going to have this posted and I know it's not a policy yet it's here but is the procedure in other districts I've seen where they have posted fields in this >> yes so >> and is it part of the package for all sports fair >> it will be so so just to to sort of make sure everybody's uh on the same page as far as how we got to where we got if you remember a few months back I was at a a seminar that was put on by Strauss Esme where they discussed the fact that during
156this school year, uh, there would be a requirement to adopt a policy. Um, so I brought that back. We discussed it. We were like, "Okay, that's great. We want we want to get this the ball rolling on this. We think this is something that's really important." And if you remember a couple of months ago, there was a policy that had been adopted through school boards, but Strauss Esme had not yet put their recommendation forward. So we made the decision collectively to adopt the policy immediately knowing that we would replace it with the Strauss Esme version and then coincidentally right after we uh finished our second reading was when the Strauss estate version came out. Um if you looked at the two you probably saw they're very similar. Um there's almost no no changes to but
157from one to the other. Um and a couple of the options in in obviously in in our policy committee uh policy committee tasked me with making sure that it sort of aligned with what we had adopted previously so that we could just in a single reading um adopt the new policy not go through two readings and then abolish the other one at the same time. So it's really a replacement of a policy that is nearly identical to it. It's just the Strauss Esme version because we didn't have the Strauss Esme version when we decided to push one forward. So uh but yes as per our discussion we want to make sure this is posted. We want to make sure the information is available. So um so it will be shared out. Um we are after
158our site assessments that we were doing. There was some signage needs that we're looking to um to address. So as we're purchasing signage for a variety of reasons um that will be one of the things that's looked at as well. Making sure things are appropriately posted at our sporting events and facilities. Um and we go from there. >> Any other discussion? >> Okay, seeing none. So we can go to old business. Any old business? >> Move to close old business. Second. >> All those in favor? >> Any opposed? New business. Any new business? >> Move to close new business. Second. >> All those in favor? >> Any opposed? >> Okay. Public comment. Is there anyone in the um public wanting to speak? Uh public comment. This could be about agenda or non-aggenda items. >> Move
159to close public comments. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> Yes. >> Any opposed? Um and we have no need for an executive session. So um >> do we have a motion to adjurnn? >> Move to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All those in favor. >> Any opposed? >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Okay. That wasn't so bad.