Boonton Township Board of Education Special Meeting 03/25/2026

001Shall I call this meeting to order 6:09 p.m.? This is a special meeting of the Township Board of Education held for a board training workshop followed by a discussion of Rockaway Valley School's facilities and educational needs, including consideration of a potential referendum and any other business that may come before the board. In compliance with chapter 231 laws of 1975, the notice of this meeting was advertised in the Morris County Daily Record. Copies of the agenda of this meeting were appropriately posted and made available to the public. Sparta Here. Mr. Brandon here. Mr. Cavana Mr. Chen Here. Mr. Hetinger >> Here. Mr. Johnson here. Mr. McBride Here. Mr. Mills Here. Mr. Rosenberg Here. Also present are Mr. Chini, superintendent principal. We have a quorum. Please stand for the flag salute. I pledge allegiance to the flag

002of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, we're going to start with the presentation from Dr. Paul Pinero, our field rep. Okay, so um the people a little bit better. Um I'd like to thank Lauren and Barry for inviting me to come here. I'd like to thank the whole board for uh for having me ready to go after your snacks and start learning about uh effective board communication. Also, it's a pleasure uh sitting next Yeah. And um and also John Burgess to see you again. So uh I'll just tell you a little bit about how I like to approach it. Since we have a little bit of time, so I'm going to approach it a little

003bit more like a workshop advice teacher. So I I thought my students never like just sitting there for, you know, 60 to 90 minutes. So we'll have some moments for some discussion. Uh but at the same time, I'd like you to keep an eye on the box right there cuz I know you started 7:30, 7:20, whenever you want a break. And feel free to wave at me. But so it's built in so that we can continue discussions like this if we want and pull back or we'll still keep an eye on the clock. So it's technically two presentations, but they're both very related. Basically, together we can finish one presentation. So there will be a moment where we all catch our breath and just talk a little bit about anything you have. And then you

004have a new presentation coming up. The first one is more general about effective communication on the board. It might reference committees, but it won't do a deep dive into it. Um the second presentation is a deeper dive into what effective committees look like. And we'll chat a little bit about that. You know, how you whether or not you feel your committees are running on 10 out of 10 or you know, there's room for improvement. There's always room to do something. So talk about the characteristics of an effective committee um and uh you know, reflect on that a little bit. Okay. So let's jump in. Okay, so tonight we're going to learn to foster a culture of trust within the board team. We'll learn that communication is sort of like the fulcrum of trust and effectiveness.

005And also um identify some strategies for enhancing relationships among board members. I feel like you're a very tight knit board, but I it can't hurt to talk about the bar, right? And talk about ideal and what's the best practices and all. Um but certainly, you know, take it with a grain of salt if you're functioning at a very high level. We're putting it into context that works for you, I guess I could say. So uh we like this guy with the bullhorn. I think his eyes have been enhanced. I sure hope so because that'd be a tough one to keep up with while you're off doing something living like that. Oh, wait, this is Uh so the point of this slide though is every interaction matters, uh whether it's public comment, a meeting exchange, uh

006community facing message. Um but they're all opportunities to reinforce professionalism, uh highlight accomplishments, and keep the focus on students. Uh I like what it says in the bottom there, the consistent thoughtful communication supports collaboration and leads to stronger, more effective uh board action. Okay, here's the fishbowl one. Boards are in a fishbowl. So um everything that uh you know everything that you do and you Actually, that's the next slide. Everything that you participate in is public uh for the most part. The law requires that. So that's one aspect of being on the board, and that's a challenge. Talk a little bit about that. But also that there are opportunities uh to communicate, to learn, to grow together. And that the more effective and efficient boards are, the more they can take advantage of the time

007they have together. So maximize the moments together. Okay. So this is the whole fishbowl thing that um everything can be seen and heard, even what you write uh on the dais. I think I've heard that at one point, that especially if you're texting, that's normal too because that's all recordable. So all communication is important. Uh planning how to communicate is crucial. And then there's the whole line uh people like to talk about today about telling your own story rather than letting someone else talk about it. Okay. So um Yeah, what are some behaviors that you think the public would rather not witness? And then I'll share with you um what I've identified as as some of those things. But maybe uh just just to get started a little bit, maybe talk about that. So what

008behaviors do you think the public would not want to see like right now or ever going on during a board meeting at the table? Yeah. Unprofessional conduct. Unprofessional conduct. Right. Uh what does that look like? Not here, but in general, what might that look like? Yelling at each other. Yelling at each other. Never seen that before. What else? Inappropriate language. Not having Shooting down other people's ideas, not allowing open communication. Very good. Shooting down ideas. Um not Yeah, not keeping communication open so that you can one another and get on the same page. Absolutely. Yes, personal attacks. Personal attacks. Unfortunately, we see a rise in that over the years. Again, I I want to talk in general. Uh I I did mention at the onset, but I I was uh in education for 31 years

009and I'm retired. So 18 of those years I was a an assistant superintendent to the district. So I've sat in a lot of board meetings and I've seen a lot of dynamics. I can say that for the most part over those years, cuz I retired right before things got a little bit crazy. Uh but over those years, I was always um you know, so pleased with the people I had to work with. They went through some growing pains every time the board would go over a little bit. Um but everybody's heart seemed to always be in the right place. But I was fortunate because it's like that I don't know if I would like that. Okay, so those are some of the behaviors that you think the public might not uh like want to witness.

010So here are some of the ones that I've put on the slide. Getting bogged down in minutia, showing little engagement with agenda items, behaving discourteously to one another and public, not student focused, and not fulfilling office obligations. So that's something that we can discuss. All right, this is a little bit back to that story idea of how to improve your story. Or uh another way to look at it is just um you know, to to communicate in a way that continues the trust that the people have put in you and the confidence they have in you. And again, that's professionalism, that kind of behavior. Um So here are some concrete ways to shift or maintain the desired paradigm. And none of them require new policies, just a mindfulness. So reading agendas in advance of uh

011and asking questions, summarizing information publicly on certain agenda items, understanding committee role, sharing committee agenda before meeting with the team, and sharing committee reports with the community. So later later on we'll talk about why that's so important, but um we function in a committee system. So you know that some of those nuances really come into play as far as people feeling informed. Because when it comes up at a board meeting that there's some kind of questions, you know, maybe people are a little defensive. It's much better to have some of those questions answered beforehand. It's a part of uh the story that you're telling to your community when you're conveying what's going on in the Um Oh, I read the wrong one. Yeah, reading agendas in advance, summarize information publicly, all that. And then there

012was yeah, how to improve your story. Attend board meetings, uh committee meetings, trust committee members and the superintendent and the BA. Uh be a team, not an individual mindset. Both members in the room. There's a very key Oh, no, I see. Uh So uh how to improve the story. Be engaged versus disinterested. Um I noticed Yeah, so you can have you have laptops. It's important for apple saving money, of course. It's just an efficient way to have your information. Uh but I do mention to board members at times, it's a good idea to be engaged as you all are. Um even if you are engaged and listening, I've seen board members who are you know, listening, but they still might be looking at their their laptops. The public who are the public looking at each

013other? That can seem like you're disengaged. So um that's part of this what I was mentioning. Also, responding to each other in a timely manner. Not to don't operate like doctors in a situation. Uh it doesn't work for anybody whether it's um Um, you know, it's members of the board or, you know, when it comes to attending any board. Um, cheer yours for the positive things in the district. Understand that you are not privy to all information, so so don't let them know that. This is where I forgot where I Okay, so we often say, well, a lot of I've seen FSRs, I'm a field service rep, and say, you know, mention this, you don't all have to like each other. Um, I don't even like to highlight that you don't have to like each

014other. I think another way to say it is that the board you you might not know each other that well. Maybe you don't necessarily trust each other all that well when you're new, or if there's some dynamic going on, but ultimately if you are treating one another professionally, and working well, and doing your best on behalf of students instead of, you know, whatever else, you know, might be on your radar, uh, then then the rest comes. So, to me, trust is as good as liking one another. Frankly, I like most of the people that I trust, and trust me, so I feel like that can still go hand in hand. Okay. Uh, so what causes conflict? Going in the other direction, and is it always bad? So, there could be philosophical conflict when there are

015differences among, uh, members about what they believe. There may be competition about who gets what resources, especially if times and resources are scarce. Uh, there could be good old fashioned interpersonal conflicts. Uh, territory, who's responsible for what? Controls what information? Or just seeing things differently. Um, but good news is conflict isn't always a bad thing. It depends how it's handled. So, um, it's not necessarily the conflict that's the problem, it's unmanaged conflict that can anybody. Uh, you don't want to be afraid of conflict per se, but avoiding it can let issues simmer and boil over. So, if there's a constructive way to manage the conflict, that's you know, that's the way to go. So, what happens when we manage conflict and focus on productive interactions? Uh, we develop positive working relationships. Uh, we see increased

016collaboration and teamwork. Uh, we're more effective decision making, uh, enhanced community trust and stakeholder engagement, greater satisfaction among the board members. I do always like to underline the idea about how the community trusts the board, uh, when they when they see the board functioning well, it it makes so much difference on how they feel about every day of their you know, their children's lives. So, it's really important that they feel that, uh, you understand how important your role is, and how uh, how much you can impact positively on the students. When they see that, they feel really great about every day of their kids' lives. Okay. So, strong communication really comes down to three things: listening, clarity, and respect. We listen to understand, not just to respond. We're open and honest about our thinking and

017decisions. And even when we disagree, we keep it professional and respectful. So, I think respect respectful. So, when I asked earlier about, you know, what people would want to see, I think you touched on just about, um, all of those. Okay. So, um, let's break this down. What means being an active listener? Uh, how about we we we offer a couple of suggestions. What does active listening look like? What what does it, um, mean to you? To be an active listener. Looking at whoever's speaking. What does it mean to be communicating Yeah. Yeah. What do you do with people uh, when there's people That's active Acknowledging somebody's points. You may not agree with it, but you say, I'm hearing you say this. Yeah. That's That's almost literally word for word what someone said. For the

018most of I don't know if anybody else got active listening. Jumping over over the top of the person or waiting for the person to And I can see how that might happen more in board meetings than anywhere, because you're trying to cover a lot of ground. Um, some of the information, uh, you know, shouldn't be new to people, but they will let the conversation go. So, it's challenging, absolutely. But let's see what we have. Um, fully focused, understand, respond, and remember. That's what active listening looks like. So, that's sort of the eye contact, and then being able to, um, restate that. And then say something about that. There's the eye contact, nonverbal cues, uh, avoid interruptions, right? Allow others to finish speaking, and summarize to ensure understanding. All right. So, our next one I'm not

019sure why the dog is there. I didn't put that in. But, um, so now we're going to talk about clarity and open expressions. How do we maintain clarity in our communication? That that one's a little bit more vague, I think, or more esoteric. But, uh, let's take a shot at it. Let's get one who hasn't done that. Esoteric, I I think clarity in communication is one of the hardest things to communicate. And like people to be polite and kind to and get, you know, connected with the group. I think it just requires clarity about the person. Clarity about the and understanding what what you are conveying before you face it. Okay. I think that's exactly what I said. I I'm sorry if you you're done with it again, it's just mirroring what someone else has

020said, but at the end say, am I correct in thinking this way? I'm hearing you say and say your interpretation of what it is or what you you received from them, and say, is this correct? And if they say yes, then you're you're on the right track. Right. I do There's another presentation where zeroed in on that quite a bit more on the idea of asking the question, but also at the same time first stating what you think you heard them say, and then asking the question is a good way for someone not to feel like you're coming at them. So, let's say a committee a committee report is being provided, and um, a board member asks a question. By stating what they're hearing first, as you say, and then asking the question, it sort

021of keeps the defensive. So, it's pretty valuable. Uh, let's see what we have. Use straightforward language, avoid jargon. Okay. Uh, be precise, but thorough when presenting thoughts. I think that can be very helpful. That would be good for you. And then encourage questions for clarity. Okay. One more of these. What do you think of that I'll share? Respectful dialogue. I think that one's a little less, you know, meatier. So, what is respectful communication? What do you think? Talk I'm going to agree with you on that, but I think that's Communicating and giving everyone an opportunity to speak. Summarizing the thoughts of others. Calm dialogue. Under understanding that you you may have different viewpoints that you're that all coming together for the benefit of the school or the students. You're not putting down somebody else's, uh,

022thoughts. You And even just socially in the world these days, it seems like people are quick to pull out of something, to beat someone, uh, at at the the point they might be trying to make, or to, you know, pull the rug out from under, or or they just turn it into a, you know, opposite thing. You think this, I think that. So, um, these are some things that These are ways that respectful dialogue uh, conflict, acknowledging different perspectives. I statements, um, I think that's sort of what I was alluding to before when I was saying how it could be restated. So, and it's about I I feel this or I still have questions about that. And I think, um, I think that's a better way to approach dialogue. Um, attacking issues, not people. So,

023that's something that we have already touched on. And then agreeing to disagree respectfully, which ultimately you might have to vote, and often it's to vote, you know, um, together, you know, but it's still important that uh, you know, minority minority opinions are still expressed, but if it's respectful, uh, I think the community appreciates that. They don't necessarily want to see all of us shaking our heads all the time in agreement. It's It's perfectly fine once in a while, you know, but It's perfectly fine when every you feel you need to disagree, uh, and it's just an argument, I suppose. Okay. So, trust grows when we're willing to be open with one another. See the best intentions to start. That's one way you can do that. Support transparency and and about how decisions are made. Uh,

024share perspectives when it's helpful. And acknowledging mistakes, being willing to say, I believe got this wrong. That's the case. Own errors, focus on the solutions. All right. So, what can, uh, what can the board do? Certainly it's that, but what can the board do to, uh, develop themselves as a team? And, uh, some of the suggestions we have here. Regular informal gatherings, coffee chats, retreats. I mentioned earlier that could be challenging because your time together is is regulated, so Um, workshops on communicating skills, team building. That's kind of what tonight is, so good for us. Uh, kick off meetings for project for this projects and initiatives. Uh, that builds the board and then understanding and our reports, committee agendas, and the minutes. Um So communication protocol. So some boards will I do have like a

025communication I don't know if I protocol but communication plan that human touches on and we do um it draws up a good dialogue and I don't know if you've ever come together and said how do you all communicate? So in other words, taking this presentation into something of a document. Um I don't know if you have anything like that but so that's that's um but yeah. We do not. I think it would piggyback nicely on the board norms document that we talked about in the retreat conference and creating that together as a group. So that sounds like a good retreat type of topic too. And then if you include everything including public communicating with one another, uh communicating about um committee meetings uh I I might be overstating how challenging it is for committee members

026to get the information they need from other committee members um and having that be smooth because you know, you have to avoid ex parte conversations of course uh in emails so that's tricky even in texts. So communication protocols important you know, planning defining those out and maybe uh in your board that could be but I think something you might want to do in the future um so the who, what, why, and when part of that. Um if everybody knows everybody's role and their why and all of that that can reduce confusion uh forgot to know means build trust uh support of these first I don't know if I approach Well, can I ask a question? >> Yes, please. Actually something like this um the one we're given again. Um What's an example of how we

027would do a public meeting for a project or initiative? Is that I don't know if I'm on the agenda. How would that Yeah. That happens. I you know, I also try to come up with examples you know, specific to you all but for referendum we are right? So I don't know if that would be an opportunity um for you to have a special meeting and talk about you know, you're doing reports on it on a regular basis that you need to speak on the board but if there was maybe some kind of a less kind of formal launch maybe there could even be like a celebration so then it's like a little bit more than the business of the board but more like a celebration and have the community excitement for something so maybe something

028like that. So like if you if they pass it let's say Oh, that especially. That especially so that would be a good opportunity there. As soon as we tell the public kick off kind of that's my role and then stuff like that would come. That'd be a good example. That's a better example than I did. So were we thinking to kick that off like that? When we kick it off let's say when we finally vote and we got this package should that be the kick off? Celebrate it. Start it. Okay, both. Yeah. Um I'm not saying we're not telling anybody to vote we're saying hey we're just talking. Yeah. Yeah. There are steps in there. We're all in some steps of that process so when you get to the point where you've actually approved to

029go to referendum that's the time where you can communicate this with people with more depth. We've worked hard to get here. Here it is. Here's the plan. I don't know if that's because then you're solid. Yeah, yeah. That's what I meant. It's not like you should all vote yes or no. I do It's a milestone celebration. It's a milestone. It's a milestone. Information. Yeah. So if I want to use that example that was provided uh that's all kosher, right? Cuz when I do this presentation I might say someone will ask that and I'll say here's a great example. I know a great team Just don't use my name. No. >> [laughter] >> I get specifically advised by council. Once the board votes to go to referendum cuz we're we're we're kind of in the process

030now. We haven't made that final step. Yeah. Now you're celebrating that information. Here's what happened. That'll be a good one there. I think that's Once you get all the letters back from the state and you know what your state aid is going to be then you that's where all the presentations come to the public and here's you know, here's what you're going to vote about a little bit. Uh so how do we leverage communication for continuous improvement? Uh conduct surveys of board members. So this would be almost internal. It's like a board self evaluation. I I to check do you do the typical I'm sorry. Do you do do you use the tool if it's self evaluation tool that we have at school boards? We have the last year or two, right? So um so

031let me know if you're going to be doing that again. Um we can even set up time to do the the reporting out on that. If you've done it a few times you might not need the support of an orientation on how to do it um but coming in and going over with you it is a great way to you can use you can do it to to create goals but at the same time you can just do it as a great reflection. So we can do that too. I like this part of it. That's one of my favorite. So we once once it's all laid out you can come back and give your [clears throat] results and hear that. Yeah and we have like metrics that are nice and I'm sorry. Um So yeah,

032it's cool and we have a metric that so there's a rubric and I'm sure but I'm the new Charlene is that the question? No, no. Do we get hours for training for that or do we not? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So not for the good question. Not necessarily for doing it but for me to come >> Yeah, for you to come in. Yeah, to help us facilitate the feedback. Yeah, that absolutely. Um and sometimes if you if you tacked on the goal setting with it that can be a longer retreat style type of thing so it would be like two hours or something. Uh so yeah, I mean reflecting that's what all that is. So it's how do you continuously improve? You reflect for the most part and then um from that reflection you come up

033with whether it's goals or just discussion about how you might approach things differently or enhance how you do things. Just the act of reflection I think builds more trust and you know, a sense of team. Okay, so um for this part of the presentation I'm listing the takeaways for now. So our goal tonight is to take away uh these three themes and understand that that was effective communications the foundation of a board team relationship. Active listening, clear expression, and respectful dialogue are vital so we broke those down. You guys shared some thoughts on that and building trust and relationships takes time and intention. Intentionality? I was an English major and English teacher but sometimes a word will get to me. Um yeah, so hoping that these things feel like you conceptualized it a little bit

034and then um I like to say that an outside observer can predict I guess the effectiveness, efficiency, productivity of a board based on what they see. I mean I I try not to do that but sometimes I just cuz I'm new to a lot of these all the districts, right? Charlene was here for many years working in Morris County and so I can't help but sit here and go oh this is going to be a good one you know, a board that is okay or sometimes it's like uh-oh I have to do I have to support them in getting on the same page. So one of the ways whether I like it or not cuz I don't want to be biased about anything especially if it's the first time I'm interacting with the board but

035you get a feel from it and it's typically the feel that like anybody would get from viewing one of your meetings coming to one of your meetings. So um hopefully you know, that's that's sort of the end game for all that we were discussing so far. Um so yeah, I I I have a note to ask you know, how does your um but it's good to ask yourselves periodically how does our public see us and how are we demonstrating meetings that we understand that we understood our mission and that we're focused on students and all of that good stuff. So what we can do from here is you know, reflect a little bit on on what we've discussed before going on to the next one. Next one has some discussion opportunities too and it's drilling

036a little bit deeper into committees. I think we're okay on time. I'm anticipating another 30 to 40 minutes for the second one depending on and there's a little bit more participation opportunities in it. Um but did anything jump out at you while we were chatting through this one that you might want to extend a little bit further if we extended some of the conversation? Anything else? I really like the looking at it through public size. I don't think we do that and it makes some time to be when we have discussions they can go round and round. Maybe we need to be more helpful to do it better in that listening piece and letting everybody have their piece. If we keep it concise and have I think we can have a more effective communication in

037the public setting because sometimes we don't do ourselves justice. That's my own opinion. I'll put myself in that too. But I think we we could be even more um thoughtful about how we communicate public session. So you're suggesting that all board members are not thoughtful? >> [laughter] >> I don't know. That's an inside joke. >> [laughter] >> I I concur like we need to be more thoughtful. You you actually triggered it for me, a really important point. I don't think it was baked into your point, but boards can become very efficient. And, you know, especially Robert's Rules, you know, parliamentary procedure, and they can get through an agenda, you know, smoothly and without any conflict. But sometimes it's robotic and like automatons. And so, when you said, "How does the um how do the public

038see us?" I thought to myself, "What an efficient I was thinking, "What an efficient board would look like." Like I always do. And um that's efficient. Efficient. But Yeah. So, I I think we we fall into both. I think we've had meetings where we're we're all in agreement, maybe a very straightforward agenda, and it's just running it out. There's almost no discussion. And then we've had ones that we've had a lot of discussion going round and almost too much where it's just kind of circling and scrolling the same concepts over and over. Yeah. Doesn't sound concise or um I don't know. I think that that the I I the word I'm looking for is escaping me, but I think we could train ourselves a little more concise. Yeah. You're still human, but yeah. Yeah. Yes.

039The one thing that's important in how the public perceives you also our board members come to the board meeting prepared. So, a lot of things are done in committee. >> [clears throat] >> You know, they they vet a lot of those things and those are they're supposedly post all of the committee meetings. And then there's a spot on the agenda for each committee to report out. So, at every meeting, if you had a committee meeting, you report out. So, they they kind of the public never sees that you do a lot of work behind the scenes in committees, and they think you're just rubber stamping some things. So, um there there is some discussion a lot of times out of board meeting. >> You're right. And since we started reading out the committee, uh you

040know, that not every detail in there, but what can be displayed publicly, personnel stuff like that, that's been much better. Yeah. I mean, I'm just being a little self-critical, but I think we're doing a very good job that I think there's That was a really good uh thought for me to kind of uh you know, just be more cautious of. Thoughts. Do you ever think of um So, if there's if someone on the board asks reach out to the the committee chair, uh but someone's not on the committee, they reach out to you, and they say they ask you a question. Um do chairs ever say, "You know, that's a great question. Ask it in public, too." So, that you know, cuz maybe the public would want to hear that. Um or it's just a

041a great question. I know that um when I do the ethics presentation, um so, the school ethics commission, when an when someone asks a question of the advisory asks for an advisory, um if the commission thinks it's a great question, they actually publish it out there. They push it out and say, "This this is a great advisory response to a great question. It's something that many board members would benefit from knowing." So, I mean, I'm stealing that sort of concept and applying it to when you're reporting out on committees, if you can almost highlight some questions that that the the public might be thinking about uh that that came to light or in conversation. And I Yeah. So, it doesn't Sometimes it can be a challenging question as always, but yeah, just um putting it

042out there. So, again, so I don't know I've done mentioned the rubber stamp kind of thing somebody did, but this idea that you you know, there's a lot of thought going into it. Because sometimes that smoothness uh I I attended meetings for three or so years that went like that all the time. And it wasn't really public there, and kind of get into that habit of just getting through it. And then they were like, "Wow." I remember We're okay, right? So, I remember one of our administrators used to do an over/under. Used to say, and look at the agenda we go through our agenda, um we'd be central staff, yeah. And um he'd go, "Okay, that agenda I'm going to say hour and 20." And then we would kind of joke about that. But then

043when things got around COVID time, you know how bad things got, we were like going till midnight. And so, we just didn't even bother doing that anymore. Um so, but yeah, and then the other thing I wanted to highlight before going ahead was that we talked about um you know, being really efficient, but also trying to be human, I guess. So, do you all like celebrate? You have students come in, and they'll like, you know, re- bring up a a poem that was written and they won an award for or, you know, I know this is a little group. It's not like you're going to have the high school come out and do jazz band type stuff. But um do you have opportunities to do that? Cuz that kind of breaks it up, too. We

044haven't much lately. I think we should, honestly. I I do sports and supreme But I think we could do more to bring in some of the arts. I like teacher of music. Uh yeah, performing arts. Yeah. I mean, Ken does a very good job with accommodations. But I I think we've been probably I think it would both apply. The second trust community he expressed what he wanted to do in the sports category. That was me. And we highlighted just a few things that you can get involved on that. Um Try [clears throat] We'd love to do something once a month of just like I said. That's hasn't been the culture here. Uh we've done STEM so far, sports, music. So, and the RTI thing as far as administrations concerned. But and we're also acknowledging teachers

045who are tenured. Uh having a little celebration for that, recognizing them. But having students here is is the best of that. To me, that's the the gold standard. Yeah. The challenge, of course, though, is you still have to get through an agenda. So, you know, you have to keep that in mind cuz those things take time and they're, you know, and oftentimes you might need an advisor or, you know, a school official to come with them, a teacher. But it you know, so then it's It's hard to do it all the time. Um but you know, when you can, it's good to. All right. So, I'll jump right through in a second. But I can get to that. I also have never perceived personally that way, honestly. I'm just joking. I I think it's very

046I think we've been we've been very we've been very good as I would say kind of I don't honestly I feel like Well, it is, but sometimes it won't be more productive. I just I think the more we we do with the public, the more the public sometimes we I think in having first things first. I I think that we need to be I don't think we're in danger But also the system is set up so that no not the whole board can't talk to each other except in public meeting. So, it's inevitable you have to deliberate. Right. Yeah. Sometimes you get into the weeds. Yeah, I didn't want to be seen like you shouldn't in any way. I think it's been very good, especially with referendum discussions we've had. It's just every so often

047we we spiral at the end. And I think that's where I think we just need to go, "Okay, nip it and move on." Bringing up the same topic. Yeah. That's Yeah. Try to reframe. Exactly. Need to. Typically it happens at the end of the board meeting. That's right. That's when I get start to get a little grumpy. >> [laughter] >> I would agree with that. I think that's when I start coming out. I've had a lot of custodians go up to me and say, "We're done. Can we leave?" >> Yeah. >> [clears throat] >> This is good stuff. This is really what I like to see. I mean, I'm just kind of hoping to to open things around with some slides so that you have that kind of conversation. So, it's not about me, but

048I already feel successful because you're interacting and and, you know, uh building some team unity and everything. So, thank you. Um awesome. So, we'll turn our attention a little bit more specifically to committees. Um and uh yeah, so there'll be some more opportunities to chat, which I think is the best part of of being able to have these kinds of workshops where, you know, you have the time and and you're not like worrying cuz there's people out there waiting to come in. We have an hour or so. So, uh I think we're in good shape though as far as All right. So, this is um yeah, this is about committee meetings. And then We start with Yeah, so No part of this document would make That would be a quorum. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> All

049right, I might have to tell all of the staff members then. From now on, I have to make a note of that. That's my It's like when I show this and say, "What's wrong with this picture?" >> [laughter] >> That's right. Unless there's a lot of administration. That that feels like nine. That's a perfect nine. I love it. See, that makes it more interactive. What's wrong with this picture? That's great. How many are there? Three, five, 10. Yeah. It's easy. [laughter] No more than seven on a committee. Okay. Um Let us start with a quote. "Effective committees unify, represent, motivate, coordinate, consolidate, communicate. They function best when the members are selected appropriately, and when a clearly defined mission exists. Strong leadership is key as well." Um I've run into I get phone calls sometimes from

050Anybody can call me. So, there are protocols in any district, but any of you can call me. So, um I I'll leave my cards cuz I have Um and every now and then, the one that seems to get to people the most, and maybe we can chat about this, but you know, not to air any kind of frustrations necessarily, but um I get board members calling me and saying, "I want to be on a committee, but I wasn't picked for one or something. Now, I've seen that first hand as I told you I was an administrator for a long time. Curriculum committee, right? I was assistant superintendent and a lot of people wanted to be on that committee. They tended to work it out. Um But that's why the one that they function best when

051members are selected appropriately. I I feel like someone could ask me, "What does that mean?" So, um Barry, you were president for a long time. Lauren, what do you think that means? Put me on the spot a little bit. I'm just letting you use my name for my book. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I I just tried to come up with a philosophy. I mean, there's different thoughts about how to put people on committees, but I tried desperately to put everyone on the committees they wanted to be on or whatever they thought their expertise would be where they could contribute the most rather than like even though you you wanted to be on this committee, you thought you know, your expertise is there, but I'm going to stick you over there because you know, just for

052some reason. I I always tried to put people where they wanted to be. I had a crazy spreadsheet where I asked people to rank committees from one to six or whatever. However many committees you got, rank them one to six and then I would just number like committees, board members and what their the numbers are there. And then I would try to get like all ones in one thing. For You know, and and the same with the twos and threes. I tried my best and then sometimes you know, you you you have a conflict and you have to resolve the conflict and um And that that was always the key problem. Yeah, you have to figure it out. All right, Jack. You know, do you do seniority, you know? I mean, you usually met with

053a phone call. Like if you know, you know, even if someone was on the board a long time like, "Hey, so-and-so, you I know you wanted to be on this. You were on the board longer. What do you think if I put that person on this?" So, I tried to communicate with the individuals on my decisions to see you know, to get buy-in and and to just you know, make it you know, you know, everything everyone to be happy where they ended up. So, I tried desperately. Hopefully I did okay, but I don't know. >> [laughter] >> I would imagine it's a challenge. >> Yes. And so far no one complained this year. So, thanks, guys. >> [laughter] >> I I did similarly, but I also have a mindset that we do need to rotate

054particularly like having been a new member three, four years ago, I felt it was important to be on as many as possible to get an understanding of areas maybe I'm not as competent or knowledgeable in and I think it's an important skill because all of these committees are interdependent on one another. So. Excellent. That's a pretty segue um because they are. You all depend on these committees for your how you vote, right? So, um and the transparency of it and that's a challenge, too, because if if some people and that's where trust is so important. So, if a board member starts thinking that the the committee is not being up front, they're not being transparent and that gets in someone's head, you know, that then then it's a problem. Even if it's maybe not even

055a problem, but um so, you know, >> just add something, too? Yeah, please. Um I think it's also important, too, for those committees that might not really have active work every year like negotiations. That and I think we've done a really good job of it here. Some of the newer board members who might not have had that experience before >> [clears throat] >> are on that committee, but some people who have stayed here longer think, "Okay, I've done that. This doesn't come up every year. It's important for I think a newer board member just to experience that if they want to. It doesn't mean they have to." Mhm. Which to the extent that they want to, I think it's important to have those committees. Yeah, that's what I found that people over the years just

056like you said, like if a board member was on there a while and they were on the committee they wanted to be on, they started ranking to accomplish that. They would rank you know, the ones and twos and they'll be a four, five, or six. And it would just be a natural progression like, "Okay, been there, done that. I want to experience another committee." They would rank it a little bit higher and the ones they were on lower. You know, and then that would be sometimes sometimes it you know, get to where Lauren wants to be like to you know, that rotation would happen that almost naturally because someone would say, "I want to try that other committee. I've never been on it before." And it was you know, it seemed to it seemed to

057work out. Yeah, we have that. And there is some natural rotation when we're up for when we have negotiations or referendum, right? Like those are new committees. There's ad hoc. So, I do feel like we get like some cross-pollination committees. [clears throat] Good stuff. I'm learning. Thank you. All right, let's see what else we can learn. Oh, lots of question marks. This this slide is so overwhelming. Are you ready? That's All right, so it's overwhelming to and to read that at you without having thought about it first. >> We have to guess what they are. Yeah. No, first we're going to I'm I'm looking for like one or two or maybe three, but what are things that effective committees have? What do they do? So, let's share a couple of those and then I'll show

058you the whole list and I'll probably read them at you because they're all pretty good. But in any rate, um before we get to those, what do effective committees have and what do they do? Jeff, this and Jeff, this Good. Enthusiasm. Enthusiasm. Engaged. Nothing great has ever been achieved without enthusiasm. Ralph Waldo Emerson. Attend the committee. Attend engage committee. >> Already engaged. Attend, engage. So, first you have to get them there and then they should be engaged, right? Absolutely. The secretary note taker. Great, that's so important um because that seems to be where I don't know if it's disputes is the right word, but accurately capturing what happened at the meeting and sharing it with transparency, that's a challenge. So, someone has to be responsible for all of that. There are different ways to do

059that. I don't want to get into the weeds on that now. I just heard someone recently talk to me about how they have a committee that uses a Google Sheet and while the committee is working, people will add the notes to it and then at the end they can all say, "Yeah, this captures it well." Um so, that would be another good thing to add to this slot in this workshop or maybe another one, but just how to do that communication specifically from the minutes capturing the meetings. Uh maybe one or two more? Moderation like mediation in a sense. Not just the leader, but a moderator. Mhm. What would uh so In the sense of just kind of taking everybody's feedback and and similarly when you're you're writing the notes, but just taking everyone's feedback

060and listening, recapping. That could actually, you know, sort of short-circuit any kinds of concerns or things where the the you know, you don't like the the committee [clears throat] chair is running too much or the committee chair So, I guess it makes it a little bit more uh where it's more like a I don't know, democracy or something, but also so it doesn't feel like you know, it's a one-person show, maybe. I just have a question as far as uh committees and note taking is concerned. Let's just say we we have our meeting and uh Jeff is the committee chair. And during the board meeting that report is shared out, is there um like what happens between the committee and the board meeting? Is it Is there a need to typically is there a need

061to send it to the other board members with the for the summary or is it just at the board meeting or both? Right. So, the answer is all boards can be different, but in my experience and uh somebody but a president for a very long time and added to some through different uh machinations or different approaches, but um so, the minutes are provided with enough time to the board before the meeting it's going to be reported out on so that if people have questions, they can ask them in advance so that any kind of concern someone might have, a board member, can happen doesn't have to happen at the table. They can have it resolved. That might be a good example of where someone has their concern resolved and then it's brought up at the

062meeting because they might be thinking, "Well, the public might have a similar response to that information." So, you know, that So, that's a good way to work at it together. Um I don't know. Did I Did that answer your question for the most part? >> Yeah, it did. Structure is in place though, right? When the when the meeting takes place, the committee chair is usually report and posted on board board folder that anybody can go and look at for a meeting, right? I think we could do better in having a board norm on that in terms of maybe creating like 48 hours after a committee meeting we post the notes and and or I think I learned in the workshop that you conducted as well like BCC everyone that I put the notes up so

063you can go and look for it. Yeah. So, that way it's just a little bit more efficient. Just food for thought. Things that I've been thinking about. And having a protocol, too, for So, you might have questions for uh the superintendent maybe even a question that uh Well, yeah, that that would be a a regular agenda item maybe, but superintendents are also They they're on every committee by ex officio. Ex officio. So, um anyway, there might be a scenario where you want to ask the superintendent a question that is connected to a the committee agenda. So, having those you know, having opportunities to do that in advance of the meeting is always great. Um I know some board members might feel uncomfortable. People who are super transparent and I respect them immensely. But um they

064might be concerned that anything you know, that the minutes must capture every thought and every and all of that. So, that's a little bit tricky, too. So, the norms that we've been talking about, I appreciate that. Yeah, that's a good idea. Just to make sure everybody gets it is on the same page. Half the time there's a conflict is because people are just living their lives and it's hard to get on the same page. So, all right. So, here they are. Um I think it's worth just reading through them quickly. Meet clearly defined needs are established in in manner. Effective committees operate under clearly defined bylaws. They lessen the total work of board members, so there's an efficiency of effective committees. Explore issues related to board goals and objectives in depth. Effective committees develop and

065investigate as requested by the full board either options or recommendations. So, some of this is getting pretty specific. So, that's why I do like to have them and I'll share this so that you can have this pre-school presentations um and refer to them. Effective committees meet in a timely fashion. They have an effective chairperson. They have a clearly defined reporting process and we'll talk about that. Maybe even be able to be clearer about that. Include appropriate administrators and staff as the liaisons like I was the guy in the curriculum committee. I was in the policy committee and those were tough years because those were long nights when people thought they had to wordsmith everything. Um but I can go on. Provide for minority opinions. That's important, too, because you really don't want to necessarily We

066we want all the opinions that people feel strongly about um you know, for them to be able to share those. So, committees have an opportunity to do that, to talk through things that way. And then lastly, make recommendations to the full board. So, that's tip often what committees are doing so that they can make recommendations to the full board. Okay, so we got through that. You can see that like that. Uh Okay, so do you have these Do you have these committees? Right, curriculum and instruction. Finance and business and government. Yeah, yeah, we they're called something different but they are basically Okay, great. And then ad hoc committees when you need them. Yeah. Um and policies are over. So, yeah, I mean, you can have I believe there was a policy a specific policy committee

067for a while and Mike is still on the committee. We still have a law board still have a separate Um we have a governance committee. Okay, those That's yeah, we always we seem to like uh present on these three. And that's what we'll do tonight, but those seem super important to me, too. Uh I don't know that I think a you have to have an oversight of policy like a policy committee for all policies that are farmed out where unnecessary to the other committees. So, I think that makes sense in governance. Of course, New Jersey is a full board and has a governance committee. Excellent. Okay. Um well, so this is how I'm just going to generalize it maybe read underlying parts. This is how committees actually operate. Who calls the meetings, how administration supports

068the work, how information flows to all board members, and how recommendations are brought back to the full board for action. Um so, they should be called by the chairperson. Meetings are called That's another tricky one. We don't have to get into that now, but I I did have people concerned about who get who gets to decide when the meeting happens because that might exclude someone from being able to attend that committee. I would know. That stuff's tricky. I remember doing scheduling when I was a principal. You couldn't make everybody happy. Yeah, it wasn't a conspiracy. Um advise of all committee meetings and receive agendas. So, that the president and the superintendent, the BA, and all members of the board are advised of committee meetings and they receive the agenda. Um again, knowing what everybody's up

069to. The president refers items uh to various committees for review and discussion. So, yeah, that kind of gets farmed out that way when board members have um >> [clears throat] >> When I've seen it work well I in my personal experience, a board member would have a question and that would be uh redirected or rather than jump to the person they think have the answer, I I uh have the superintendent say, "Well, that would be good for the blank committee." Right? So, let's send that to the the so-and-so committee. But also that the president typically is sort of the person who farms that stuff out. CSA selects administrative liaison for each committee. Um that's I think pretty standard and usually um CSA or administrative liaison reviews items for the agenda. Committee uh brings recommendations to

070the entire board for review and for action. All board members receive committee agenda and minutes. Committees report to the board with one month within one month following each committee meeting. Um that's to the full board as opposed as opposed to maybe having the minutes together shorter time than that. Uh Laura mentioned it you know, 30 to 48 hours or something. Um it's good to do it while it's fresh, I think. Committees recommend the A may or no opinion. Can I go back to Yeah, oh of course, sorry. Uh could you speak on the CSA selects administrative liaison for each committee? Mhm. Yeah, so I you know, in your case because we're K8 K8 um Well, curriculum I think I'm sure you don't have an assistant superintendent, I don't think. So, you're really the guy on

071all of those committees in a >> Okay, so now you have like who's the liaison for all of these? I'm selecting myself. You may have a curriculum director that is your liaison to a committee. Yeah, right. So, you're you're Here we go, right? You're the human resources liaison, Kevin. You're the curriculum liaison and uh yeah, you wrote all You did all of them. Each one of We wear many hats. The only one like terminology I had a board attorney many years ago because minutes the word minutes has a connotation that it's approved the word approved. Generally meeting notes. Oh. Yeah, but I didn't You may want to check with the legal people. >> we say You're right. I actually Some are approvable, some are like some are like Yeah, it's the norm but That was

072the norm in our prior district of mine and they got the school board but they tend to use the word minutes. Okay, I like that board notes. I mean, our committee notes too. Yeah, I don't know about you all, but we also had like a very like a template and we all use the exactly the same all that. It does help. Minutes? Does the school board send it to the company you guys use or is Yeah. I think it I think it has to be Yeah. Uh yeah, I I I kind of Just curious. Yeah. Well, I I didn't introduce myself in the sense of when I started school board, but it was only last fall. So, I'm still I feel like I've got a good grasp of it, but I'm still learning that there

073there are thousands of pages of resources that school boards have. So, as soon as I said, "I don't think so." I thought, "Probably, actually." Um so It falls in this area. Yeah, it it's overwhelming to me. Um Okay, so this is typical of the education committee. Um so, the administrative liaison, so that's Kenneth. He's generally the administrator who oversees curriculum. So, and then um so, those are the areas that typically the curriculum committee is involved with. So, if there are questions that bubble up whether it's in the context of oh, the committee's meeting, but sometimes it's just in general board members are questioning, um they talk to either Warren or Kenneth. It's into the picture if Warren says, "You know, that would be a good question for the blank committee." Whenever you can push something,

074you know, not push it out, but bring it to a committee that's got an expertise in that and is focused on that, that's a good idea. Yeah, that's just efficient. So, that's the education committee. Typically, the operations committee, some also call it F and F, I think, and it's also um Yeah, finance and physical plant, so Yeah, facility finance. So, that's what those look like. Um Can I ask a question on the composition? Yeah. >> like uh school board sets the So, we actually have a separate finance committee, right? But it sounds like there's a combination of the two all in this one and in some of the other ones. Question being should we think about consolidating And we we kind of have that discussion Maybe this is not the right time to discuss. It

075was on the various committees. I'm not saying it's what we do. Actually, that's a great clarification. So, um I'm just saying that I get involved Yeah. So, the implication is implied here that there are three committees and that's what you should have, but it really always comes back down to it whatever works for certain board. So, having the conversation is great. I don't want to suggest though that um school boards thinks three is is the max that you should have uh because so many do have five because they cover the other two that you're saying because there's a lot of work involved there. Um so, maybe going to John's point, that those can be you know, that the indicators for each of those can be divided up differently than what you see here. That would

076make sense. Uh and then of course, there's HR and um Kenneth is the liaison for that uh in at least here. So, um yeah, and those are the responsibilities of that committee. Somebody's been doing that work. And again, you can take um they can take they can take any form based on what works best for your board and your communities. All right, so I'm going to um just try a couple at a time so we can make sure and save some time at the end for general discussion, but um anybody want to toss out a benefit or two from the committee system? Question. I probably already brought some. Uh catch some. You can get a lot of work done in a committee without having to do a public meeting with all the advertising and all

077the things that go along with it. And you can vet a lot of things as a committee then bring it back to the board. And you probably don't have any of them when boards are not functioning. When there's a lot of distrust, the whole comes up to make a committee of the whole. It never works because districts that do that eventually go back to the committee structure. So, a lot of things you can't do is do in public. I I don't know if I'm supposed Sorry. Thank you. That's That's great. That's the legal part of it you don't have to I actually Well, because I knew you didn't have a committee of the whole, there are like five slides here uh on the committee of the whole, but I took them out. So, I took

078them out for a couple of different reasons. One, you know, just our time, but also because it's a whole different world and you know, I I tend to agree. I don't know if we're supposed to put one in front of the other, but um yeah. Committees of the whole are really complicated. It's like you you'd almost have to go to school and get a master's degree in it before you could actually make it fly really well. I think my point is that when when board functions well, and a high-performing board, committee structure works very well. Mhm. Agreed. All right. So, these are some These are the benefits uh that I've included on the slide. Uh I just want to read the meeting minutes. Oh, but you guys don't get to read them now. Okay. Oh,

079actually sure. Yeah. All right. So, you were here. I didn't mean to be leading the witness at all. >> [clears throat] >> Paul? Yes. Um one of the things that I found in this that I find beneficial space having the uh people on the field, like for instance, finance. We have some parents who are in that field, and obviously that's not my field. So, their expertise in that area has really helped me. And conversely, if I'm if I'm in education for a long time, and some parents are on the board, and we're talking about curriculum or programs, I find that they're benefiting from my assistant principal's expertise or my expertise. And so, it's kind of like a give and take. It makes us better as a whole. So, do they get So, you're saying like

080someone in the public can be invited to a meeting? No, I'm saying in our committees. On your committees? >> Yeah. So, the our our board members who are involved in finance or government, they're contributing a great deal in our committee. And I'm learning a lot from them because of their expertise in their profession. And they're also learning a lot from me and my vice principal in regards to curriculum and programs, so. Great. So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you're not suggesting necessarily that you would put a public person on a committee. What you're saying is inviting other board members with an expertise to a committee that they might not be on. Well, the way that Barry and Lauren have set up the committees, they kind of like choose you know, allow the board members to

081choose their first, second, third picks. And if they have an expertise in finance, for example, and they choose to be in finance, that's a win for us because they have that expertise. They have a lot of experience, and that's a benefit to me learning Oh, sure. In that field. Um and also, if if if I'm running the program and curriculum committee with my vice principal, who is our curriculum director, then those parents are asking questions, and they're learning a lot and getting a better view of what's happening inside the school from a curriculum perspective. So, I think the expertise of the board members and of the educational professionals on those committees having that dialogue helps make each other better. Absolutely. Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate it. So, the committee chairs, they coordinate the work of

082the committee. What work is coordinated by the committee chair? Let me just toss out a couple of those. What is the work? It's Setting meetings. Setting meetings, yeah. Agendas. Yes. Work flow. What do you mean by that? Prioritization of uh of um things that need to happen in the in the order that it needs to Yeah. Someone's got to keep it moving, right? Do you have uh do your committees have target that like it's a 60-minute meeting kind of thing and all that? Yes. Each one. They typically are an hour. Yeah. They can exceed. Okay. So, the board committee chair uh coordinates the work. And we set agendas, right? We set the work flow. Um Anything else before I put it up? Communicate the results back to the board. Right. Okay. So, some things that

083we've touched on. Works closely with the administrative liaison assigned to the committee, develops the agenda and calendar. >> Yeah. Like we said. Things for discussion, work flow. Yeah. Works with You guys are good. Works with liaison to arrange the meeting dates, times. Keeps committee and board fully informed of the actual meetings, but yeah. Uh organizes the work of the group. And work flow. And uh facilitates the process, chairs the meetings. All right. Then there's the role uh committee chairs in regard to communication. What needs to be communicated by the committee chair? Um see if I I'm going to check my notes so that I can restate that in a way that helps you. Yeah, that's what I thought. Right. So, what happens in the committee has to be communicated. So, how does the committee chair

084do that? I mean, start by communicating what is appropriate. Uh there are certain items that can't be communicated about. Um So, it's filtering. Making sure the right message gets out. Yeah. I do primarily notes, and then we'll give the committee report out to the board. Yeah. Kind of like we've been talking about quite a bit. Let's see if there are any other items down here that we haven't touched on yet. Arranges [clears throat] for committee report. >> Yeah. Form. See, that suggests there's a committee report. >> Okay. And see, that doesn't seem to me to be so good. I'm just going to start purging meeting minutes. Ensures Right. This is a You need to Committee report, committee chair. Yeah. Committee notes. Uh ensures distribution of meeting notices and committee report. Communicates anticipated uh problems or

085concerns with president and CSA. Very good. Work flow. Um Any Anything on that? Arranges uh through the CSA for other administrators to work with the committee. So, yeah. There might be a time when in fact, so Kenneth talked before about his curriculum. My vice principal does curriculum. There might be a time when maybe you're in finance, and you're talking about the budget with regard to curriculum, and you might invite that person to that meeting. Does that sound like something you would All right. Sets the target dates for completing committee tasks and reports. Um Out going another best practice from the superintendent that I feel is super highly effective. But um when he said to me when he was first starting our district, and he asked me, "I want you to make up your committee meetings

086agendas for the year." It was August. I used to do it month to month. And I was like, "Yeah, but I can't question my brand new superintendent." So, I said, "Okay." And then I paced in my office for quite a while and figured I don't know how to do that. And then I gave it a lot of thought. Um And the bones of it can be done, and it keeps you on task, especially like in curriculum. Well, what curriculum has to be revised this year? Well, now you've just made sure that you're bringing you're going to get them all through, just like the policy, let's say. And then that also opened up the door for me to think about who could be a guest speaker or guest expert to come to a meeting. Um so,

087there would be regularly the month where I had the special ed the assistant super special ed come in and just talk about instruction. Okay. So, um yeah. That was a really great practice, and we weren't doing anything like that. Um So, kind of goes along with that. Sets target dates for completing tasks. Uh What are some things committee members can do to assist in having effective meetings? I'm keeping an eye on the clock now, so I think I'm just going to jump with that one. Um cuz I want to leave some discussion at the end. That is great. But I just let you loose. Um So, committee members can assist in making committee meetings more effective by doing these things. Reviewing the agenda prior to the meeting. Yeah, we've covered a lot of these. Arrive

088on time and prepared. That's important. Uh contact the committee chairperson prior to the meeting with any questions uh after reviewing the agenda. So, yeah. I guess you get the agenda in advance of the meeting. That That's a bit ambitious. Um sometimes the meeting uh you know, the agenda for a committee meeting might be there that day. Do you all Are you able to pull that off? Do you all share the committee meeting agenda ahead of schedule? Yeah, it's They're They're on Google They're They're on Google Drive. Okay. And as things come up, I throw them on there, and everybody has access to them all the time. So. Great. They can just log in at any time they want to see it. Great. Am I right? Am I Am I dreaming this? Is that That's correct,

089right? Facilitating getting all the agenda. Yeah, they do. What are you talking about? Uh no, that's the working group one. And then the rest, there you go. And of course, it's sometimes it's good just to refresh on it. Sticking to the agenda, of course. You already all brought that up. Refraining from sidebar conversations. I don't know if that came up explicitly, but that's Two, ask me questions at the proper time. Yeah. Okay. I was wondering if you know, who who dictates to somebody when their question is appropriately timed. But if it's on the agenda, you might wait for that, right? Uh making comments that are on point, assisting to do it. Engaging in active listening. We talked about that in the last communication. Requesting additional information needed. That comes over and over again because uh

090that that's what makes the meetings be productive. Your your board meetings your regular board meetings productive and also courteous and um you know, no no gotchas, no surprises. We like to avoid those. Okay. So, um Yeah. The recur So, I I see it sort of as a recursive process. Um meaning, so when an idea might surface, I think this is more along the lines of when something comes up as opposed to setting you know, in August setting your agenda for the year. But when things come up, and someone says, "Well, you know, whether it's Kenneth or it's Lauren, um somebody might say, well, that'd be a great conversation or agenda item for that committee. So, an idea surfaces, um it's circulated to the appropriate committee, it's discussed by that committee, and then the next next

091page, uh um where it makes sense, it can be brought by the committee to the full board for discussion and action. Board either approves the committee recommendation or denies it, maybe asks for uh more information, committee maybe discuss it again. So, it's it's that's like the life cycle, I guess, of um something that might come up that can be handled through committee rather than just be one of those kinds of questions that lingers and and is kicked around by different people. Formed out to be uh Oh, okay. So, this is the part that I think is a good wind down. Yeah, let's try it. I like this. I want to see what you think of it. Um To what extent do our committees have a clearly defined purpose, charge, and scope that are understood by

092members and the full board? So, picture like a Likert scale. I'm not going to say give me a number one to five, five being the most in this, but do you do you think So, I have like three three or four of these. Um so, it's going to be clear purpose, effective, quality. So, to what extent do you clearly define purpose, charge, and scope? So, that might mean saying, well, I think we do it well, and then and then a few people might say, where we might be able to do a little better kind of thing. I guess I would say um we probably all understand what the committees do, but it would but I think you you many years ago we also thought it would be a good idea to put it in writing

093as well. Um but, you know, when we look at some other districts, I know Killian has like a list of committees on their website, and they have what their committees do. So, I think we all understand what they do, but it it's probably it would be a good idea to put it in writing. Yeah, I think our I think even some of your prior slides have you know, other high-level descriptions of what those committees did. All right, good. Thanks. School board has been having some Um kind of a growing committee structure. In your research Do I guess same thing I said before? Um Yeah. You know, that's You know, Lauren, let me make a quick note of that. Um Uh do you have a hard start at 7:30? I want to give you a chance

094if you have to take a break, take a breath, and use the restroom or something. High attendance isn't going to kill the meeting. He's coming for the next one. He's He's not here. Oh, actually he Oh, he is. Okay. Oh, he can just hop in maybe. Yeah, I think he's looking better. And while you're here and everybody's here, could we coordinate another training date so it's easier than me blasting email? So, that's let's have this indication. I'm going to say you have you have homework. The homework is when I send this to you, I want you all to reflect on the idea, to what extent do our committee chairs effectively coordinate work? So, you know, um to what extent do our committees communicate timely, clear, and all that? So, I want you to reflect on

095that as homework. >> [clears throat] >> Um to what extent does our committee system improve the efficiency and quality? So, reflect on that as well. And then, what's one thing our committees can do tomorrow to become even more efficient to develop ongoing trust and clear communication? We've We've said a few, so why don't we pick one and that'll be like our exit ticket for today. Um what's something that you liked that came up that you want to make sure becomes standard practice for our So, that if I can, I would actually suggest that we spend a couple minutes actually doing this. I think this is almost the most important part of the training. Oh, sure. Uh but just to rattle off, I think I want to go over there and say I think um clear

096roles and responsibilities for what the committees do, just so that's clear for the board. And I would just say this as a new board member four years ago, I had no idea what committees were. This was so helpful when I had to figure it out on my own. I think kind of kind of a rate. It took me a while to figure it out. But when you first come on the board, you're not sure what committees are, what they do, and then specific to us, we don't know exactly what the committees are responsible for. So, to your point, Barry, I think it's good to say facilities does this. Like for me, like cuz I share finance finances across all of them, and I'm like, oh shoot. Like it took me a little bit to to

097realize, and that's why some of my question was a little bit, you know, like should it be combined with some because it is so reliant on facilities, but there's a personal aspect personnel aspect to it, but a lot of the finance like this related to facilities, right? Uh so, there's a there's one about roles of like how the committees are, and I think it's helpful for the new board members or whoever comes in with the board to say, ah, I know what that committee does, what it reviews, what it's responsible for, and then I want to be on that committee or don't want to be on that committee. Um rather than new board members having to basically kind of figure it out over time like what what they do. Uh I I will also agree

098with some of the comments about I think we can be better about communicating out what's happening across committees. And again, I will say this again as a new board member, nobody kind of explained the clear roles of committees saying, how much do committees, whether their chairs or else, how how we should be communicating. It sounds like it should be much more than I think was done historically. I think we've done better, yes, but I think for new board members as well, it's like I've been putting that into action saying, hey, committee's not just doing work there, it's a lot of the communicating across, and it's like that wasn't made clear to me either. Um So, there's kind of a a dual around it of us just taking an action to be more communicative amongst the

099committees, but then also getting the people on the board saying that is how the committee structure and governance actually works. Uh And I think that leads into the action of what what we do there. Yeah, with the new descriptions and then how do we communicate across That would help me greatly, Chad, because as new superintendent, that's one of the things I was like, all right, what are we doing here? And I've never run a committee. I was not on a board of education. I wasn't in central office. I was in principal role. I was doing district level stuff, but I was never running a committee, never on a committee, you know, a board committee. So, having kind of like the quasi job description for it would be would have been beneficial for me. I guess

100that part might be for the liaisons, too, cuz you know, right now you get appointed or or voted on as a liaison, you don't know what it does. Same thing there. Yeah. Um let me tie this all all back up into, you know, board norms. Could we consider something [clears throat] I had suggested a few weeks ago, which is having the committee chairs meet every four to six weeks as well, or whatever duration, not necessarily time stamping it, but just so that way information is disseminated more amongst the leaders, too, because of that, to your point, finance is dependent on facility, which is dependent on personnel. Um so, some more work happens behind the scenes collaboratively with like with chairs, and then it gets disseminated to other members. Well, also to Jeff's point, there was

101a discussion. I don't think it was last year with that wait and see that I've had it both ways. I've had finance, I've had facilities, I've had finance and facilities. A lot of times they are interactive because you bring something to the facilities, you know, let me talk about it in finance, but you might want to think about next time they come around that combined because they do work so closely together, and it's not another meeting now. Yeah, it's one nice thing cuz honestly, the finance committee but singularly, we might have agenda items to review, and then we do the budget, which is probably the big one for the year, but the rest of it is really connected to facilities, right? Personnel, we a lot of it is confidential anyways, so we have a big

102review of personnel items anyways from a finance perspective. They're really not independent finance. This stuff outside maybe the the budget, but the whole board gets set almost every meeting as a whole. Pseudo by cuz cuz I name approve it as a board member. And the board has been very good, you know, if there's ever a question on the agenda, finance item, or or anything related to the superintendent, they either email or call, so it's nice that our board we can get an answer if there was a question before board meeting and not getting put on the spot. And this board isn't hasn't done that since I've been here, so which is certainly appreciated, but you know, the goal is communicate with either of us on [snorts] an agenda item. I would agree with Jeff like

103finance and facilities for the most part would make sense. Like, you know, for many many years, you know, not much happened in facilities, so they would be absolutely great together. I have to say during a referendum like 20 years, it's actually been good to have it separate. Yeah, I agree with that. You have different experience you have different people on each committee, and and you get you know, you get different a lot of different perspective by running through a poll. So, in this particular instance, it's good that they're separate, but if we're not doing a referendum for 20 years, we can have it together. So, I think the the takeaways that I heard were >> [clears throat] >> you know, uh the clear goals What's the the means of the Yeah, roles and responsibilities of

104committee, which were I think Barry's point was great about putting it in writing. Yeah. I think we've come a long way. Like we've never had ever we've never had committee notes. We've never had reporting We even over the years have had the take an idea a long way from today. None of it to the board. And then, Lauren's suggestion about having the committee chairs meet a month or every other month. That would be a good idea. Lauren, was it just having an explicit three to six months I said every other month. That's You quite agree. So, you agree with like a 48-hour policy for notes? He said 30 days for presentation. No, he didn't. No. All right, 30 days to get to the board for the meeting, really, but you can have a conversation about

105Um I like the idea of before the next meeting Most of them already do this when we arrive. Right and those Google Docs, right? It's like if you go to the meeting before the next meeting, you have to hand it in. We tried the weekend before that. It's convenient to find out what this presentation is. I think we should leave notes out there. Find a way to answer the need to work out the undiagnosed meeting. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> That's all I'm saying. Could have been there. Uh so can we just look at the column before you But I do But I do I just do want to acknowledge the following matters. Thank you so much. All right, let's see. So if you want me to look at my calendar as well. I know this

106chair is busy. It's pretty full. I look at That's okay. I think it's So you got to >> If it's a month out, we should get it on the calendar, right? Yeah. Why don't we do the uh Uh with that And then for feedback the the board um self self self self self self self It's going to be in June anyways, right? Like when is that? It's on the superintendent's evaluation. And I'm getting to that shortly. I know it's coming. I can't remember when the Yeah. And the board's self-evaluation. When do we We do that like That's June. That's right. Yeah. So I don't have your meetings open at the moment. I Do you have a Uh such a great I hear that a lot of folks have me signed up for those. In June?

107>> Well, it's in the city. Yeah. Unless you Ultimately, did you uh Our June meeting is the 17th. You're looking at June or you're looking at May as the 21st. Oh, wait a minute. I have on the 17th Boo Boo Booth Booth Booth Retreat. So We talked about that. Booth Retreat from Townsend or Us. It was us, yeah. Us? Oh, okay. Because I I I The Booth in my system the difference between Townsend and and and Townsend is that's where the town is. The town is the P. >> [clears throat] >> So for a while I've been going to the wrong place. That's the only thing. So in my big database Well, the state the state took it. State for real. Yeah. I've got your debt service. Yeah, you were saying. All right. So you're

108actually in the book if you want to do that. Okay. That'll work. So June 17th. June 18th. June 18th is June 17th. >> Wait, when is that? I'm sorry. June 17th is on a That's the wrong That's the wrong year. Yeah. of what? June? June. June 17th. Page 28. I could listen to >> [clears throat] >> And that's for the self-evaluation. Yeah. Okay. That's brilliant. All right. You guys are doing a great job of maximizing your PD opportunities if I can say that. So we have our architects here to do a presentation on the potential referendum. So I'm going to turn it over to Brighton and Dan. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. My name is Greg Somjen and we've been here now several times and this is the culmination of many many months of work

109that the board has been doing. Um we have presented on the infrastructure projects over the past several months. We've explored a variety of educational options that have been narrowed down to what we are now calling concept B1 and B2, which is what we will present this evening and as agreed we're just going to recap how we got here very quickly for anyone who is seeing this presentation for the first time or anyone at home trying to catch up. Um The [clears throat] building itself um was originally built in the 1950s and has had additions over the course of decades. It is split up into three basic sections, the pre-K kindergarten wing, the elementary school section and then the middle school grades on the far right. The referendum in 2024 covered a variety of infrastructure projects

110that ranged from asbestos abatement to the boiler and to some roofs and also took into consideration an art room renovation and at the time an addition to accommodate much needed storage. That referendum totaled just over $15 million. It was receiving debt service aid from the state about $4.7 million leaving the local share to the local taxpayer at about $10.3 million and ultimately as we know that referendum failed. After the failed referendum the board was focused on a superintendent search. Ken Frattini was brought on board and had a chance to evaluate the needs both infrastructure and educationally firsthand and then since coming on board he has had discussions with the Board of Education, met with administrators, teachers and student reps with us and also had community connection meetings from August through today and ultimately identified some

111needs that was presented to the board. Those needs fell into two basic buckets. The first one was infrastructure, which we've talked about several times and we'll just touch on the total dollar amount, but again they are very similar to what was contemplated in 2024 with some exceptions like the storage room has been eliminated and some of the other things that are more smaller in nature. And then the one we're going to focus on this evening is the educational bucket. Just as a point of information the district does have a strategic plan with three goals and those goals vary, but many of those pieces align with the planning that has gone on for the educational portion and the infrastructure portion of this referendum that is being considered. So the educational needs that were identified were to

112eliminate shared spaces. Many of the spaces in the building are currently being used by two and three teachers simultaneously. There are many spaces that were formally storage that over the decades became converted to actual educational use and so they are windowless and not ideal and also long-term enrollment increases that may ultimately occur. There are some specialized instructional spaces that similar to the storage rooms here were converted. So the area across from the gym was formally storage and is now a music space. The art room is uh old and has issues relating to not being properly sized for the youngest kids, not being properly sized for the older kids, so falling somewhere in between. And then ultimately there is a classroom space that was converted to science STEM, but it's really just a general classroom. >>

113[clears throat] >> So the considerations that uh that we used for going into the design was to address all of those things that were lacking educationally. The existing site uh is has some limitations environmentally. The aerial is not something that people are accustomed to seeing, but this is what the property looks like. There are wetlands on the property and there are what are called riparian zones having to do with the stream and the water courses. The red dotted lines represent setbacks that need to be maintained from those areas and so one of the things that we looked at very early on was how can we accommodate these needs because the existing school does not have the square footage to accommodate some of the things that are being explored based on the shared spaces. So the

114concept that falls into the B category, which is the middle of the road category. We looked at something bigger, 10,000 square foot and maximizing what we could build and then a smaller version, which was about 5,000 square foot, which was the minimal amount of components that could be addressed and ultimately in the last several meetings the board felt like the middle of the road was a reasonable approach. So the first concept that was presented on this um in this middle section was a 7,200 square foot addition. It consists of classrooms being extended down towards the softball field on the seventh and eighth grade wing as well as one music space off of the upper gym. Uh those spaces are ideal because music is a louder acoustical issue. So putting it next to a gym is

115very appropriate and obviously the classrooms and extending the seventh and eighth grade wing is also appropriate and then you can see the shaded blue areas, which are interior renovations. Ultimately, this project this proposal addresses many if not all of the educational program elements that were identified. Everyone has their own space. We are removing people from former storage spaces that are windowless and ultimately allowing uh the general classrooms to act as general classrooms rather than being used for other types of spaces. This proposal is approximately $10.1 million. We are not expecting any debt service aid on the additions, but we do believe we might be able to get some debt service aid for the interior renovations. So ultimately what the next steps are is after approval and after submission to the Department of Education we will

116get what's called a preliminary eligible cost letter and that will tell us exactly what the state subsidy will be. And then after our last meeting we were asked to develop a second concept within this mid-range. And so we're calling that concept B2. It increases the square footage to 9,100 square feet by adding a second music space. So currently the music spaces are one for band and one for choral, but they're undersized, they're inappropriate from a learning perspective because they are former storage rooms, the ceilings are lower, the acoustics are not great. And so while we did have one music room in concept B1, the discussion about adding a second one to see what it did to the budget was contemplated and it is being shown here so that now we have a properly sized choral

117room and a properly sized band room. The other proposals are similar if not the same to B1 in so much as we have general classrooms and small group instructional spaces that are being accommodated so that people are out of windowless spaces and appropriate educational spaces are being proposed. And this one comes in a little bit higher at 11.9. Um the debt service aid discussion is the same. We don't expect any for the addition, but we do expect some for the interior renovations and we will only know that once we get those preliminary eligible cost letters. So uh I believe this evening the board will have a discussion and decide on one of these two concepts. And what that will ultimately do is there will be applications submitted to the state if option one is chosen,

118meaning the infrastructure projects which are totaling just over $16 million with 5.7 in debt service aid. Uh if concept B1 is uh chosen, then we will have a total referendum presented community of $26.7 million. Um how many questions that will be represented has not yet been decided. And then option two, if selected, would be the same 16.6 million infrastructure and 11.9 for the educational, bringing the total presented to the community of 28.57. Just to recap some of the frequently asked questions. How does this impact my taxes? Once we get the preliminary eligible cost letter of the debt service aid from the state, the financial advisor will be able to more accurately calculate what uh the average home will be impacted and then that will be presented well before any voter goes into the voting booth.

119Why do these projects cost so much? Um the prevailing wage requirements in New Jersey and the other state mandates are what drive the cost of public sector work. We have gone through a benchmarking exercise with everyone to show that the current market conditions do reflect our budgets. Why do I have to vote? In order for a board of education to borrow money long-term, the community has to vote on it. Uh borrowing money long-term for something like this is very appropriate. Not only are you getting to finance something with a life expectancy of 20 or 30 years over that 20-25 years, but it also allows future uh residents that are moving into the community to participate in the paying off of that debt because they too are benefiting from the improvements. And then why don't we

120just keep using capital reserve to fund these things? And the answer is that capital reserve is limited. It's like a savings account, only so much can be put away based on the annual expenditures. Debt service aid is not available if you use capital reserve, and capital reserve is paid in one year rather than over the life expectancy of materials, which is 20 years. I tried to do it quickly because I know we've seen this many, many times. So if I went too fast, please pull me back to wherever you'd like to ask a question. Are we supposed to have been sitting like that? Yeah. I just want to say one thing so to add on to that. So the previous presentation we record our meetings, so somebody from the public can refer back to that

121if they need to see the last one. They'll be able to see this one will be posted tomorrow. And also the presentations are going to be on website under the referendum page. So anybody who has missed the meeting, once they come up to speed, they can look at both of those areas and then try to get up to speed. And just to note on the presentations, we do have the referendum tab that has previous presentation already posted on there. Uh and once we get this presentation, that will be posted on the referendum page as well. Now's the time for board discussion. Yeah. I just uh just to clarify for the people the steps that we're going through now, like the two the next steps would be for the board to decide on what it thinks

122is best for the district based on all the inputs we've got for the infrastructure and and then one of the educational concepts, B1 or B2. So the next step would be first to submit an application if the board to decide to submit an application from the state of New Jersey with those concepts and get it back with the numbers that they will absolutely provide to them. At that point the board would decide, are we going to referendum like when that comes back from the state? That is correct. Just one question between the concept one concept two, the the band and the choral, um how much is that taking over of the current playground? So you can see over So you can see on Oops. You can see on the aerial you can see on the

123aerial it's taking over What are we calling it? The project >> fit area. The project fit area, which based on the conversations we've had, seems to be more of a hangout area than a project fit area. So I think there if there are discussions about how we can accommodate a place for the kids to socialize and congregate, whether that's maybe at the end where the baseball or softball field is or but but it takes up most of that project fit area where we have the two classrooms because each classroom uh has a footprint [clears throat] of about 1,200 square feet. So that's 2,400 square feet plus the storage in between and plus an extension of the hallway a little bit to get us access. Thank you. Okay. Uh I just want to point out that

124where it says music right there, that's currently where our three containers are. They're for storage. So That's not taking up much >> That's Yeah, it won't be taking away any space from the kids area. Yeah, and those those containers have things stored inside of them, but again the beauty of this is that we gain back those closets. I know that John mentioned maybe making one of them a conference room just to have a little bit of flexibility, but it also takes the old music space, which was storage, and could recover that back to storage. So there are options. The storage need, just to be clear, did not go away. This is a different approach to accommodating educational needs while also addressing some of the storage needs. So the difference between B1 and B2 is it

125is the only difference the addition of the choral room in B2? Okay. So that follow-up question, um noticing that B there's a difference of 1.8 million between the two proposals, what goes into the construction of the choral room that makes it 1.8 million? So the 1,200 square feet Yeah. times the cost per construction and then proportionally everything else goes up. The contingency, because it's a contingency on the hard cost, goes up. The market escalation goes up. So the beauty is that the And remember there's also a hallway extension which has a little bit of square footage to get to that end as well. But basically most of that is the hard costs and then a lot of the contingencies that relate to it because those are tied in as percentages and the goal here is

126if we submit to the state we get 34 cents on the dollar for whatever we submit on the interior renovations. For the exterior, we're not going to get money, but if we have the money there and something changes in the market, which is always changing, we can still execute on the project. If we don't need that money, contingency specifically, then we don't use it and it can go back to the community members. So our numbers are based on what we're seeing in the market and based on benchmarking. And if the primary driver is the hard costs and then the associated soft costs that go into a permit fees because educational projects have educational reviews that you have to pay for. So most of it is just the hard cost of the construction and then the

127related contingencies that are associated with it. Okay. Mr. Fortunato, question. Um if we don't do the choral music, the music room double as a choral room? Maybe that's a question for you as well. I don't That's why this was I don't want to I'll let Ken answer the question The the music room Yeah. and the band room, let's call it instrument musical instrument room, is being utilized all day long for both Yeah, by both Okay. instructors. So there's never an opportunity for one to use the other's room. Yeah. That's why we were considering adding on the Well, yeah, cuz just to put things in perspective, if you look in the middle of the building, you're familiar with where the existing music room is. So arguably, either this is the choral or instrumental Choral. and then

128this one is acting as the music space. So you can see it's it's woefully underdesigned and with the Yes. sound of instruments in there, I I can only imagine what it sounds like. So the goal was to accommodate both those spaces and then be able to accommodate them cuz otherwise one of them might have to stay in there. But but yeah, so I guess that's my follow-up question. From a scheduling perspective, then I would assume that the the chorus would stay in the the old storage room, what is now the music room. That is what happens. Correct. And there's no other place that's feasible in the renovations choral room could move to, correct? Not that we saw. Most of the spaces are general classrooms that are 800 square feet or less. The The current music

129room is probably the biggest footprint, but all of them have ceiling heights that were designed for a general classroom, which is typically 9 feet, plus or minus. That's today's code. You're going to see in the choral and music spaces, you're going to see a 12 or a 15-foot ceiling height with acoustical panels and things like that because that helps for the space to be more educationally sound. This is surely a stupid question. What What if you did an interior renovation of this storage space to to make it into a So, that's a possibility. I believe it's a roof that we just replaced. So, you know, we are actually working on a music room where you can raise the ceiling to accommodate that, but that requires a lot of structural work. So, the reality is that

130it'll be so disruptive. I I Will it be a little less expensive? Probably. But in the grand scheme of things, if you're already building on the end there, in my professional opinion, you know, you're going to build two boxes instead of one and and get a much more suitable space. Yeah. Plus, you're picking up a space for storage, which is also much needed. John has shared many stories about, you know, these storage containers. They're not weather tight. There are a whole host of issues there. So, bringing all that stuff inside that They were getting to They were getting to the pool or you're getting storage for purposes there. Well, that was my question, too. My understanding was the music room now is the old gym. It's the old gym. >> It's storage off the wall.

131And if you remember from the presentation last meeting, when they put the risers in there, the taller students are up at the ceiling. So, it's not It's not really conducive to choral music. You can't No, you can't do anything. But my my point is that if you if you did the other option with both music and choral, you now get the gym storage cuz I think we're using part of a bathroom Somewhere somewhere >> Like the boys bathroom is being used as storage, right? Or this closet the office we're using for storage. There's the locker rooms. Locker rooms and laboratories. And so, I guess I'll the follow-on question is that cuz one is the cost question that we can debate. I'm more for now concerned about maybe the programmatic uh needs of the school not

132the first to to Mr. Tini board. I assume this addresses the original list of what we were doing more than the other. More than right. Yeah, and I just want to say I mean, B2 versus B1. Yes. That B2 is a better educational uh result for the the kids than B1. I have precisely. Yeah. Okay. So, I Does anybody else have a question? I was going to give my thoughts. Can you explain the uh the What's So, what's the current current utilization of the music room? of the music room. So, it sounds like the entire day there's either instrumental music or or choral music happening in those two spaces. But Three spaces. Three spaces. They're in the gym as well. They shuffle. They move They move music around just to make it happen between gym

133classes. I guess if we go with the option B2, is it correct that throughout the entire day both of them can be utilized all the three split times Yes. Did you Did you say being utilized all day long? Yeah. I believe So, in other words, if we do project B2, both those band and choral can be utilized at the same time all day long. Yes. Now, mind you, teachers have preps and lunches and things like that. There may be a period or two where they're not being utilized. But there's not large gaps like Yeah, the The classrooms, too. This happens in the classroom when there's a prep or a lunch period. I think we're being obsessive. I think a simple question I was asking was can you swap? Can you shuffle? Cuz it sounds like

134you need both spaces. At best, one would be able to use the classroom one period. That's it. Yeah, and then you'd still have to shuffle and find. That That was my point. And my music also has the zero period, so it's used before school, too. And when when they have to do whole band practices, they go into the small gym or the large gym. So, you're you're actually shortening the the amount of time that they can actually practice in because they're hauling all the equipment from one room over to the gym and then back. They do the setup and the breakdown themselves. We We've made it work with a lot of juggling, but especially when like they have playoff going on, there are times where they can't even get in there moving things around. >>

135[snorts] >> Here you would typical instrumental music room is set up. You're not dragging the kettle drums out. You're not bringing them back. You're not bringing them back. Educationally, you're also >> [clears throat] >> So, I just want to say I believe Mrs. Cole were presented about that last week in her presentation how it's not a truly instructional area because of the moving around. My my thought was I was originally leaning towards B1. I'm trying to be cost conscious, but I realized the the headache, not even headache, the disruption creates, right? Not having that dedicated space. I feel very strongly about music, the arts. We need to have that. Again, it's not all just about math and ELA. Those are incredibly important. And I I think having the dedicated spaces is needed for the for

136the children. The cost relative to the overall cost is not that much more, and I think we've done a really good job on the infrastructure side of squeezing, pushing, making sure we've got that as small as possible to devote as much to the the children and students as possible, which I think is what we want. So, I mean, I I This is just me. I'm just throwing my I I'm, you know, leaning towards B2. I would agree with you. Yeah. Well, I'll I'll maybe agree with that. I'm going to build on B2. Like what I think the most of cost of 1A bonded over 20 years Like Yeah. What are we talking What are we talking about? $90,000 a year over disruption over 20 years? The last thing I want to happen is 5 years

137from now we we or whoever the board is sitting here saying, "Geez, I really wish we bonded an extra 90,000 a year for 20 years so that we could have separate band and choral." It just seems Yeah. It seems penny wise, pound foolish to not. Right. If If you were telling me it was $5 million to do it, I'd say, "Okay, let's let's talk about that." But to bond it over 20 years and have the people in the community share that expense for what's going to be a better student experience, I think it's like we should do it. It sounds like there's a consensus for B2. I I don't know. That's That's I'm just I'm just opening up my my head. Yeah. After we discuss. I'm in line with B2 as well. Same. I don't

138know. I I I I too. I I was thinking like for a situation like this We have such a good music program here. That's a strength of our district. I think I want to make sure that you just a strong message to the hospital community that we see costs rising all over the place very rapidly. I think it's important. That's what also has drawn me to B2 is to get what we need now. It's only going to get much more expensive. It's going to be I think it's going to grow exponentially, especially over the next 2 to 3 years. I really do think we need to go with what we need for the strong support. I thought you said it cuz I I will say to all the public too who's listening whatever, the fact

139that we are sitting and I have to compliment work cuz there's a lot of work that went into this into committees and the public. The fact that we're sitting here 3 years later with inflation being 20 or 30% higher, the fact that the infrastructure projects are nearly the same cuz we took line item by line item to try to keep that almost the same. Yeah. It's almost I I I have to compliment work. It's remarkable that we're going to be able to try to get the infrastructure with 3 years of inflation uh almost the same. So, just so the public knows too that this board has really taken like the financial part very seriously in considerations to to the line items um to get here. But you're also going to see in my budget presentation

140later on that the board has always been conscious and they are conscious in this budget of of looking at the costs. So, you know, it's played out in this scenario, but it also has been played out in the budget year after year. I may just one more point. Okay. So, I know that there's talk about investing in the arts and we believe in things of that nature. And these are great wants, but there's really a need because as far as space is concerned, if we have chorus here and we're using instrumental instruction going on in this small space, the music instructional the music instrumental instruction has to go in here, and we have students that are on the stage here, and during their practice, they we had kids fall off the stage. It's not an

141appropriate space for them to be practicing. And since this storage area was taken over, and again, I've been here for a year and a half. These are things I'm seeing every every day for the past year. This hallway here has chairs and tables and risers and things like that. So, it's from a safety perspective, like this needs to be done. If we have six classrooms here, and the middle school typically is sixth, seventh, and eighth grade, and we have on average three sections per grade, that's nine classes. There's only six classes here. That's not truly our middle school. So, you have kids going back and forth over here smaller hallways. This hallway is actually a little bit wider because of the bigger kids, and it's new construction. So, we have a lot of traffic going

142over here. We have eighth graders going all the way down here for STEM class or computers. So, there's a lot of traffic, and from a safety perspective again, that traffic causes problems. So, [clears throat] having this design is better overall, not only for the school from a programmatic standpoint, but from a safety standpoint. And again, Sorry to interrupt you, but just having volunteered here so much, and from a socio-emotional standpoint, too, because there's a social piece of kids all in one school that are older being together. The intermixing, they start around 7th and 8th grade complaining about being with the younger kids. They're they're want that autonomy in making that transition to high school. And that that transition from elementary to middle. You see it in in the interactions, as well. Agreed. And I also

143like to again point out, this area right here, this storage area here, this is already taken over by containers for storage. So, why build storage space over here to just put that stuff in there? Why not make instructional space, capture some of that closet space and storage space, take that and put it back in. Just makes sense. Thank you. Any other questions Yeah. I'm in total agreement. I I will Initially, I was leaning towards B1 just from a cost-effective perspective, but listening to everyone and hearing Mr. Fortini speak about the safe about safety. Um I like what what you were talking about, Chris. I I I'm on board with with incorporating B2. If you heard me from the infrastructure from the last person speaking, I would say the taxpayers' dollar. Um but I think that

144this is the right use of it. I hear you, but And that I mean, I I You have to go back a moment. I mean, it seems um sort of that's pretty simple. Anyway, it's comfortable to try to, you know, slim down the the number of people in the property like the old construction and the entire segment of And I I'm I really I'm agreeing. I I do think can hear from the I assume you hear about this before we take any official action, but I don't know the line >> [clears throat] >> Anyone from the public have any questions or feedback? Um I'll just say it kind of blows my mind that I moved here in the year 2000 when the last piece of money was spent here. Since then, I've raised two boys,

145they've gone on to college or in grad school. It's a quarter of a century. That's a long time not to invest. I mean, I'm I'm 100% behind this. And um I I'm but I am thinking of the questions you guys are going to get from people that might not be like, well, how come we didn't think about the the education piece last time? It was all focused on infrastructure. People are going to say, "Oh, it's twice as much as it was." Well, it's not really. It's kind of what it was plus this other need that we really need. So, but again, I'm on board. But some of your your numbers, Greg, the um I think the last time we were here, you flashed a number that said [clears throat] for the uh the infrastructure was

146whatever, 15, 16 million, but because we're getting a 34% we're only financing 11 million, which for the average house I'm this is top of head memory. So, the average $600,000 house might be a $500 increase, roughly. So, so when you present this, you're going to be presenting, if it's both, but this tax taxpayer saying, "You're going to get a $1,000 increase." Yeah, so the the information I'm not complaining. I'm just saying I'm thinking of the sales but I'm trying to help you sell. I think that the the we received some very high-level information from the financial advisor last time that we wanted to at least share preliminarily, and I think it was phrased something along the lines of for every $5 million of borrowed money would be X dollar on the average home. The decision

147was made, let's wait for the real numbers from the state because that will reduce the burden on the local taxpayer. The local taxpayer will know that information before they go into the booth. It'll just be a couple of months after we submit the application. Right now, if everything goes based on the schedule we've discussed, the board should be providing us some direction on this these concepts this evening. We've already gotten the go-ahead on the infrastructure application, so those are already started. So, we'll be targeting May 1 as the application submission, which means in a couple of months after that, two or three months, we'll get the actual numbers from the state. The financial advisor can run their numbers, and then we'll have real numbers to share with everyone. We don't want someone to look at

148a number and then be concerned. artificially low. So, that's the plan. But but you're right, those were those were talked about in a very high level earlier on. So, that's the plan. Yeah, the directional it's a big it's a big number. Yep. But if we had done something, you know, if if every 10 years we did something, then it would be a smaller number every 10 years. But you wait a quarter century and you got to pay for it just like you don't replace your roof on your own house. All true. Um something else, and this is just not that you're going to do this or you could do this, but after the last meeting and I I left and you were talking about the lack of space, uh this was also before the sending-receiving

149um um analysis came out. So, I left that meeting saying, "Oh, wouldn't an idea be that they kind of overbuilt in Mountain Lakes, from what I hear? Could we send our eighth 7th and 8th graders there? And, you know, make that part of the sending-receiving relationship, and then that frees up the space here." And that's a big idea that you can't decide right now, but it's probably too late for that. But that was that was one thing I walked away from, and then I guess with the sending-receiving receiving relationship analysis, that probably won't it won't hold up, but but I I'm I'm I'm with it. I I might not be living here in another 5 or 10 years, but I want this to be a great community for Jenny, so I'm And I'm happy to

150help with my sales ability in a non non-partisan way, but I don't know if that's possible. But everyone else knows what I'm doing, so. As someone who is planning to live here for the next few decades, >> [laughter] >> I would say I I was in the B1 camp at first, as well, until you guys asked all the same questions I was thinking. The answers convinced me that B2 makes sense. Um so, I I get it. I think it's worth it. Nicole Kober deserves to be nice to her person. She's awesome. Yeah, and he's practical. Uh I have several questions. I don't know if they're appropriate for this meeting. Uh this is the first time I've ever come to a uh a planning uh board of education meeting. Um if if you would allow me

151to just ask them, and if you want to come back at a different time if you think they're appropriate, but um has the architecture firm ever uh developed projects for other schools? Oh, certainly. Yeah, so we've been doing this for 38 years, and this kind of project is something we've been doing for decades. Okay. Um and did the school district um I'm assuming do an analysis of future class size for the students for the next 5 to 10 years? So, typically, a demographic study is only valid for 5 years because that's the life expectancy of it. And I know that there are demographic studies, and they're actually considering another demographic study, but I think and I don't want to misspeak, so Ken, correct me if I'm wrong. I think this is in response to the

152current circumstances, and while we're trying to accommodate some growth, this is not a function of because we have a huge population coming. We already have spaces that are shared. The room behind us is shared by three teachers. Closets have been converted. So, Ken, do you want to elaborate on that? I can jump in. So, our our last demographic study, Greg is right, they they last about 5 years. We did one in 2022. The board approved a firm to do an update. So, they're in the process now. They'll be a lot of feedback going back and forth. That'll go out another 5 years, but the current one is showing that there's growth, too, within the next few years. So, um you know, this project will accommodate some growth that we're expecting cuz it it did dip,

153and [clears throat] now it's starting to come back up again. That presentation is available. I forget what board meeting, but it was in '22, but Yeah, there is a presentation up on our website. That has the the the the report from like the line. If you go to the Board of Education page with a demographic study, it'll show you the trends, but [clears throat] again, it's older data cuz it's only a couple of years old. So, then just as a follow-up to that question, uh do you um somehow liaison with the the township committee as far as developmental plans in Roxbury Township? I mean, are you taking into consideration perhaps more development in the township? Is that how that study is done or or not? Uh the the we do work with the with the

154township, but the study does look at it looks at birth [clears throat] rates, it looks at housing starts, it looks at future building projects, and they've already reported out that there isn't a lot of building unless somebody gives up farmland that's not preserved. There hasn't been there haven't been plans. You know, you see the one that's stalled up by King. That's the only one that has been in the works, and we still don't know when that's going to uh when that's going to commence again. But again, yes, to answer your question, we do look at the town, and we do uh include that in the demographic study. If you don't mind me asking, are you asking if we do get a influx of students, will this need to be expanded even more? Is that correct?

155Is this going to be a common That that's not what that was not, but that that's a good thing, you know, it's just something to think about, also, is if there was if there was any Yes, how how would it affect Like if there's 100 students that somehow appeared like uh you know, from a townhouse today. He's talking know. Those are the crystal ball. Yeah, I'm just wondering how the affordable housing component in Boonton Township is taking how that's if if they've settled with the state yet and if that would bring in more children because they have to build X amount of affordable housing units. And I don't I don't know that part of it. So, that's why I'm asking. This if we hypothetically receive the 100 new students right now they won't all be

156in second grade for example. They'll be just distributed in somewhat even fashion across all the grade levels. So, we have pre-K or whatever you use, kindergarten all the way up to eighth grade. That's nine grade levels, three on average three per um three sections per grade level. So, that's 29 classrooms. So, we take 100 and we divide that by the 20 by the 27, we can easily accept 100 students. So, there's no concern as far as the population is concerned. If I might want to add on so that that that older demographic study took into consider two scenarios. One was with that building and one without. So, there there was still a growth in enrollment if they didn't do the building and there was one if it you know when opens up and it's all

157speculation. But we have a liaison to the Township Committee that's on the board member and I think they just appointed one that's a liaison to our board. So, there is communication between both both parties. Okay. And then did I get did I hear this right for plan the so the difference between B1 and B2 financially is 1.8 million, correct? That's right. And did I hear that choral room was 1,200 square feet? Yes. So, is it correct that if I divided 1,200 into 1.8 million that the cost for that building would be 15 um 1,500 dollars per square foot to build? So, your math is correct. However, the way that the project is budgeted the 1,200 square foot is for the net square foot. So, there is the increase in gross square footage for the exterior

158wall and there's a slight hallway increase as well to get the net square footage. So, the square footage is a little bit bigger. Public sector work is currently at 600 to 700 dollars per square foot for hard costs. I would yeah, just connect that's I was I just opened up my phone very quickly while everyone was talking and asked AI and in high cost areas they said it can be over 700 square feet. No, dollars per foot. Yeah, per square foot. Thank you. But this is almost double that. So >> But what It is double that actually. Yeah, so so what AI is not telling you is that the 700 dollars per square foot is hard cost. That's the actual cost of construction. And what I mentioned when everyone asked was there are other line

159items that are part of that. We carry a contingency because there are going to be unforeseen conditions that we have to cover and if we don't use them it goes back. We have a market escalation because this vote doesn't go to the voters till the end of the year, then we have six to nine months of drawings. So, we're not going to be out to bid for another year year and a half. So, we have to anticipate what is construction going to go up in another year or two and then there are permit fees and there's a whole list of other things that tie into that which brings it to the total. We don't know that we're going to need all of those contingencies, but the State Department of Education requires we carry them and

160as a best practice it's important to carry them and then there's also a little bit more site work. So, the AI answer that you received is an accurate one, but that only speaks to what we call hard costs and the other pieces that bring it up that total amount is all these contingencies and other costs that are not directly related to the hard cost. Um I >> [clears throat] >> I have about three more questions. What is um what does anyone know at present what the rate interest rate is for bonding? Um I want to say for these kinds of projects it's in the 4% [clears throat] range. For this type of work it's still somewhat competitive. It's not like the residential market that is in six six and a half seven range. Um but

161we can certainly get that and certainly the financial advisor will will get that. And just so you understand post referendum just like the bids that are open through sealed envelopes, the board will go out for competitive numbers from banks and financial institutions and they will open sealed envelopes to get the best rate. I understand. Um And I think it was just discussed while I was here tonight that is this cuz my question is this is really the right time to bond considering the atmosphere that we are in right now um both economically and politically on the federal level. I do understand you said that years down the line it you you assume that the prices will go up >> [clears throat] >> everything always does go up. They say the stock market always goes up

162when it's going down. But I am concerned um of the exact timing of this and I hate to say it under the current administration that we have in the federal government. I'm hoping that maybe 2028 things may be a little bit different. But right now with the war in Iraq and Iran etc. I know this is above your guys' pay grade, but I am concerned about bonding about around this time. Um my one of my second to last question is I wasn't here every day to hear the discussions. Was there consideration of building a second story onto this building um if it was possible and would have that have been more cost effective? Yes, the answer is it was briefly discussed. It is not more cost effective because A, you can't build over students while

163they're in the building and to do any kind of second floor addition you'd have to potentially reinforce the structure. We don't know if the foundation can support a second floor and when you add a second floor you immediately add plus or minus a million dollars worth of construction for an elevator and two means of egress. So, if you said we were going to build a second floor over the whole building and shut it down for a year and move the students elsewhere, that could be an economical uh consideration because then the elevator and the staircases for a large square footage increase would make sense. But if we were just going to build 5 to 10,000 square foot over one of the wings and have to accommodate the code requirements, it it doesn't make economical sense

164and it's not really um easy to do while the building is occupied and we're already at the building limits. So, what you do with the students And this last question I don't mean to take it the wrong way. It's just >> a good setup to the question. >> [laughter] >> It's a pay-for-play question which is has your company ever given donations to any political entity? No. Okay, thank you. We are anti-politics. But to answer one of your questions about is this the right time, I would say yes and no. The right time was probably five years ago, but and we're here now. Anecdotally, you know, I do work around my house. I would work and a sheet of plywood before COVID was maybe depending on what kind of plywood I got like 50 bucks. It's

165now almost 80. It has not gone down. Things are going up. I waiting I think is a worse idea than going down. That's my personal opinion. Yeah, and I mean everyone agrees with me and they're all the same. You don't have a crystal ball. No, right. But I mean everyone has concerns about Yeah, inflation and construction environment. >> [clears throat] >> Waiting that also has growth costs too. Students and our Yeah, totally different rate for their education. So, to wait for the right time >> I mean 10 years for the right position and you know it is you can't sort of continue to wait for the golden So, people are trying to bring our community down. There's something to have like private equity. Yeah. They're two different they're two different thoughts that are both extremely

166important in our world as I think. That's how I I think. Thank you. I appreciate the questions though because I think noted that they you're asking them cuz they're good questions and I think that the public also I think that's a I think that's what we're reflecting on the board. I think that's partly why we have these Qs. I'm doing this. Your questions are super valid. We need to be more forthright with you. A lot of those questions that certain people have gives the exact same questions. Right. Thank you. Thank you. And Terry, knowing how you think I'd encourage you to go to the whatever the the meeting was when Craig first presented. He got a lot of detail about where they came up with the numbers. He's he's Craig AI Craig AI is better

167than your phone AI. So, I'm stealing that not giving you royalties just I do it all the time. I'm the generous guy. Bad phone. Bad phone. Okay. >> [laughter] >> Just having spent most of my career in band rooms and chorus rooms and and concert halls and opera houses, you're making the absolutely right decision by building both rooms to a ceiling height that's acceptable to play music in the same music in and also not having to schlepp that stuff in and out and in and out every day. On the wear and tear on the instruments, on time that's wasted doing it, etc. etc. You have my You have totally have my vote for the double room version. I didn't know you thought of that. We've had pinched fingers along the way, too, when they hit

168the door. Oh, yeah. And I'm sure kids fall on instruments and break French horns and all sorts of stuff like that, so. Thank you all for your feedback. Any other questions? Thank you, Brad. Thank you. Thank you. So, you know now going through this that it's going to be You have your answer here. And yeah, well, what I'm going to do is jump to the rest of the motion which we have to include in the application. And what we'll do is we'll send these designs to Kevin and John just to sign off to make sure we're all on the same page on what we're preparing for the application. He has already been started. That's going to be done very soon. We're going to get that into Van Buren system. Talk about it. And everything has

169been moving smoothly, so we're Real last quick question. How many questions is something we can decide later, right? Yeah, so you can wait until So, we're submitting three applications. One for the infrastructure because we know we're getting debt service aid. The second for the Art and Music office because of educational and you will be incurring a educational fee from the state for the post referendum second submission. But those two can be lumped together. Yeah. And then the third application will be the second question one. So, you can I would not recommend creating a question within one application because if one question passes and the other one fails, dissecting the application apart is more difficult. But the fact that we have three applications, you could arguably do three questions. But that doesn't need to be decided

170now. So, you can decide that after the PEC letter and before we have to notify the county clerk on which I think is 60 days >> Yeah, there are a few more. Okay. All right. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, we have the a budget presentation after the recess. You ready, John? Yeah, we're good. Yeah, we're ready to go. All right, here we go. Everybody's here? Okay. So, uh I We uh as you recall, we finance committee met, we discussed the budget, and um we also had a presentation in December kind of preliminarily. So, you've seen a lot of the same slides. So, I'll just kind of go through the timelines. You know, basically the board is going to approve uh the submission tonight, and then it's due at the county office by

171the 27th. They have some time to review it and ask any questions to me, and then public hearing will be on April 29th. That's the last opportunity for any changes. Hopefully the county doesn't have anything that they might present. Again, the budgets are built on all the goals you see in every meeting. They're on the uh the board agenda, district goals, budgetary goals. So, that's what we use and we follow to build our budget. Makes sense. There we go. Okay, so revenue sources. If you look at the the limited sources that we do have, I list them up on top here. 92% of the budget is either state aid or tax levy. Mostly, as you can see, 86% of our budget is funded through local tax levy. Then we have some smaller ones, tuition that

172we get for our pre-K program, budget and fund balance, and I'll get into a little more detail later. And then a withdrawal from capital reserve to do our roof project for this summer. So, on the expenses side, we've I kind of briefed you on this. We uh affiliated uh and non-affiliated um salaries and Mountain Lakes tuitions and out-of-district placements, that's about [clears throat] 89% of the budget. Transportation costs are about 6.2, and then I'll and then the the balance of the budget is around 11%. So, the budget assumptions, we have an anticipated increase in RBS enrollment. You'll see that a little bit later. Um it's in concert with the demographic study. Um tuition is a little bit more for Mountain Lakes because we have We're budgeting a fewer fewer students going up there. We have

173a small class that's rising up to the ninth grade. We've got a little bit of funding in state aid, another 57,000. And we're at the 2% cap, which is new money from the current year to next year is about $300,000. So, with those increases in in revenue, we have to make the budget fit. So, as you see a little bit later, we've had a lot of expenses that we're anticipating. Salary, transportation, and health benefits 23.5%. Now, those districts that are in the state plan are going up 30% plus, so we're fortunate in that, but again, it's still a large increase. Cost containment measures, you know, I'll just briefly go through here. This is what we've done over the years, what we continue to do to try to save money to leave more money uh you

174know, on the table for educational purposes when we can. I'm sure it's quicker. So, enrollments, again, slight increase on the enrollment, so projecting 423, you can see how the sections play out um with those grades moving up. Out-of-district placements current, and I'll show you know, without going through it all, we have anticipated for our out-of-district placements Here's a trend over the last 10 years for enrollments. You can see 423, we're expecting at the RBS level, and we're going from currently at 183 to 185. Staffing um in the new budget 2026-2027, we're not anticipating any increase staffing. >> John, just curious, real quick on the uh back I don't know if you have this one. On the votech students, how are you projecting that? Is it just the Like Basically, what we we get a notification

175that we have uh students who are actually apply and accepted, but they don't always go there. So, the current students are in the lower grades. There's We only had one or two that are grad that graduated. So, I'm using those same numbers. And then um again, we have maybe four or five that have enrolled and have accepted, but again, we don't know if they'll actually go, right? if they'll actually go here. So, so again, that's the number that we Yeah. It's close, but uh Yeah, we we know the ones who are already there. We assume they'll continue if they're not going there. If they're ninth, 10th, 11th They're continuing to go there next year, and then you're adding maybe 50 or 75% of the kids who are currently enrolled that they'll actually end up going

176there. That's how you do it. And then if anything changes, so we the way the way we pay tuition to Mountain Lakes is we settle on both districts settle on the amount of students and they and we know what the tuition rate is. We pay them 1/10 every month. Yeah. So, we and then we recon we reconcile at the end. Yeah. So, if more children decide to go to, you know, one school or another, then we still pay Mountain Lakes and then we reconcile. Cuz we agree on the amount of students when we submit the budget. Correct. Correct. So, that number is firm, so whatever hap So, say votech goes up to 17 and then on we'll just keep it there. We just know we're going to be We've agreed. I've already We've already spoken

177to Mountain Lakes. We've agreed on the number. That's the number that we're both comfortable putting on the budget, and then we just know we're going to get reconciled later. I know it's happening. I'm banging my knuckle on the touch touch pad. Okay, so again, the personnel, we're not anticipating any reductions or any increases. Um in the budget, we have uh some Chromebook replacements, and that's a scheduled replacement we call the tech plan. Textbooks each year, we try to replace and renew some of the uh subscriptions. And again, partial roof replacement. So, if you remember, we've done [clears throat] over the last few years 2022-2023, 2025, we've done roofs in the amount of $2.4 million. We didn't do one in 2024 cuz it was included [clears throat] in the referendum that failed. So, again, look how

178much time has passed. We've got leaky roofs now in the continuing in the gym. Again, rather than putting in the referendum, as I said with the board earlier, we've got to do it now. We'll use the capital reserve. You'll see that a little later. So, these are the areas of the roofs that are remaining as of today. Those are the roofs in white that have been done over the past few years. So, you can see the square footage. We have about 28% remaining. So, in this summer's project, estimated cost is about 601,000. The board approved that at the last meeting, so you can see the areas. You have the upper gym, which is important. And then you have some of these lower gyms. So, it didn't make sense to do a small square footage. Add

179a little bit more in there. So, the remaining roofs are really minimal, and those are in the referendum. Okay, but they're not critical right now. We can continue with our maintenance plan. But as you I should have shown you the pictures with the the 23 or 30 cans in the upper gym, but not only is it a safety thing, it's you want to make sure that, you know, your infrastructure is in good shape. And this is so the blue shade is critical to be done this summer itself, right? Most critical, yes. Most critical right now is here. We're doing some more to increase the square footage. So, it's about 9,300 square feet. Anything in the red is what's left. So, that's why that number reduced in the referendum because those roofs came out. >> Yeah.

180So, currently we're proposing, you know, again, I'm showing you that we're at the 2% cap. That's the 303,000 that I showed you earlier. Now, each year, districts have can have an advantage of going above the 2%. So, because of our health care costs from year to year, and you saw that is, you know, 23.5%, the state is giving us $390,000 in an adjustment that we could use. We've chosen, you'll see in the next slide, over the last few years we've always had those available to us, mainly for health benefits. So, that totals 491,000 that we're not taking. If we did take that, we could decrease the 303,000 by those adjustments, and instead of a 2% cap, we'd be at 5.23. So, there's where you're looking at, you know, the the board has been prudent over

181the years to live within that 2% cap and not go past it, even though we had the ability to. Some districts are really in a bad financial situation where they have to use those adjustments. That's a one-year That's a one-year budget. Well, this is a one-year levy. If we didn't use that, it goes into what's called bank cap. So, they're allowed to use it within the next couple of years. Again, if if we had a we're in a situation where we needed to do it, and that was the only out, You have to do a one-year levy, and then it would go revert back to 2% cuz then you have to start rebasing essentially, right? Right. So, each each year so, the the increase in the in the 303 becomes your new norm, your new

182base. So, next year it's 2% on top of that. But, if we were to go if we were to use all 5%, that's our new base. Right? 491 plus the 303. >> And then it would be 2% on top of that. >> That is 2% on top of that. So, I thought it would be back like adjusted. Oh, okay. That becomes your That becomes your new base. >> So, it's almost compounding. Got it. Yeah. Okay, I got it. All right? So, what's happening is if you're in a district that has huge increases and you can't manage it any other way, you're taking that one-year, you know, You're almost rebasing You're getting a big levy, you're rebasing, and then you're going to Right. So, we we haven't been in the practice of chasing chasing that year

183to year. The bank cap, can it be used for anything, or is it They give it to you for certain reasons. They have several different ones. The only ones we've been eligible for health benefits. They have them for pension. >> If you bank If you don't use it in the bank, You can use it to balance your budget. >> The bank cap increase in the is really general General General fund. General fund. Okay. And you said it would be available to us for a few years. >> Yeah, so Yeah, so it's 3 years. One one drops off. So, we have We're retiring some of it. It's It's probably $50,000 that we didn't take. And it drops off, but we just generated the 3 290,000 this year. That goes into our bank cap. Okay. So, so

184that number that I just showed you before is is the number that goes into our bank cap. We could use next year or or in two other subsequent years. But again, if health benefits or other things keep climbing, then uh you know, again, you you have the ability to use it. This just shows you that even though we had that ability, we have not chosen to do that. Yeah. We can live within. So, there are other mechanisms I'll show you that to balance it. So, just to show you just a trend of our state aid, you can see over the last few years. Now, both the charts we were much higher, then it dipped, now it's coming back up again. So, you know, again, that that 57,000 [snorts] I think we got was, you know,

185an additional amount, which is great. It helped a little bit. Helped mitigate some of the So, really, you know, in pie chart you know, format, 86% is tax levy, it's funded through taxpayers. Then you have some smaller ones that are state aid, 5.7, and the rest. Well, your expenditures, again, regular education, tuition Tuition at 31%, benefits at 12, special education. So, the other areas are really much smaller piece of the budget. They're really the biggest part, you know, we focus on um regular instruction, and then you you have your out-of-district placements, then you have your Mountain Lakes tuition, and you have employee benefits. So, really on the revenue side, these are This is the year-to-year change. You see your 303, which is the increase in the tax levy, a little bit of a reduction, and

186that's our pre-K tuition. So, we're anticipating a couple of uh uh students less. Miscellaneous revenues are really our pay-to-play fees for athletics and whatever, you know, minimal interest we get. State aid, um basically, we received a little bit of state aid this year. That's why there's a decrease in one, but an increase in the other. Um we had some um state projects that are no longer available. It was only a one-shot deal. So, they gave us additional money for that project. Project is over, and then we're back down to $1 million for state aid. So, you see the budget and fund balance, we took a little more of that rainy day fund to balance it out. Uh what that prevented is any reductions in staff or some of the other areas, but I did Before

187I did that, I went through some of the areas that we could cut back on, and I did. Um non-educational areas first. And I I can tell you that I did not have to make any cuts in the educational area this year. So, we're good for another year. Uh in the capital reserve that you see, last year we did uh a project through project using uh capital reserve, and the anticipated budget gives us 781,000 from capital reserve. If we have any money left over in at the end of this year, you know, that's that's not access. We can put it back into capital reserve or try to try to refund some of that. So, overall, the budget is proposing to go to 18 million. So, it's a slight increase, $145,000 from year to year. On

188the expense side, again, the same 0.81%, but you can see the general fund and it's only increased by about 100%. Can I ask a question? Sure. Uh And I'll go through the through this as well. The proposed roof is 601. 601, right? And the capital reserve withdrawal is 781. Right. Other things included in there, we have the capital reserve. We also have some anticipated uh expenditures for the referendum. We have attorney fees, other things, and also the soft costs are also in that for the architect for the roof and everything. Okay. So, that that's what we needed to fund all those other projects. But again, in there, we have some pre- referendum costs. And again, if we don't use them, then they revert back to capital reserve. The 781 is an all-in for a capital

189reserve. 601, I believe. 601 is just for the roof. Just just for the actual construction costs. Now, if that comes in less and I and you know, use the 601 with money left over, that goes back to capital reserve. >> Okay. Got it. So, those are some mechanisms in place to to keep, you know, keep the rainy day fund still still intact. Um and again, the expenditures are are kind of mod- uh you know, minimal over the years. You can see where the asterisks show those in the years that we did a roof where we actually withdrew withdrew from capital reserve to raise up the expenditures. But again, no no cost to the taxpayer to do that. So, you you hear a lot about administrative spending. Um this year, you have to be below two

190things. What we're proposing in this budget is 2,536 per pupil spending. You have to be below the regional limit, which is 2,900, or the adjusted current year of 2,672. So, we're well below that. There have been years where I've spent within a dollar, within $2. But because they changed the regional limits, they raised that, we it actually helped us out because as enrollment gets down, there's fewer students to divide among the administrative costs, which drives your the cost up. Um and the last piece really is, you know, if you look at we're on a fiscal year. Our fiscal year is July through June, and municipal uh fiscal year is January through December. So, when we put our tax levy and we give it to the township, it's split half year half year in your 26

191taxes and half year in your 27 taxes. So, all in, you know, the budget that we're presenting, um yeah, the amount of town with 530, that went up a little bit. I think some of the assess- assessments in the town went up a little bit, so that [snorts] helped. Um so, overall, the estimated is 171 for this budget, which accomplishes all your educational goals. Uh it accomplishes your So, you're keeping up with your maintenance, your textbooks, your technology, all those things that are still in this budget. So, average would be about 171 for the That's it. So, you have your I have your binders there. Um we went through with the finance committee. If you want to go through, we can go through. Basically, it's broken into a couple of parts, and one of which

192is our barriers. You have the enrollment, which you've seen on the slides. The the presentation is in there as well. Enrollment just shows what I showed you on the screen, going to 423 for RBS, and then you see some of the other ones there. You'll see also breakdown where they currently are for uh by each grade level and by each teacher. And then, when you go to the personnel section, that shows you the same slide uh that we're not changing the full-time equivalents. And then it gives you a breakdown. This is the chart that I would submit to the state with the budget [clears throat] county office with the budget, which basically shows throughout the budget where all the salaries are. And the last piece, which is in there on the statements, so, that's personnel.

193Other information, if you have some things you want to put in there, I always leave that open. And then the last piece is really the line by line budget in two ways. There's There's actually two stapled pieces here. One is the sequence of accounts that that is submitted each month to you, as well as to the county office. And the last piece, just for you know, your own edification, they're broken down by the third and fourth set of digits. So, all the salaries will be lumped together. So, if you want to see how much all the salaries, you go through, you can add them up, you can see that that uh and I showed you on the one slide, and a lot of our expenditures are going towards uh tuition and in benefits and salaries.

194So, that's pretty much it. But again, you know, we're at cap, which is important. Um I still have a lot of work to do on all the the background of paperwork before it can get submitted. So, I hope to have that all done by tomorrow, so I can uh which is a good thing. Now, they're allowing us to email. before you had to print out stacks of paper and run it down to the county office. Friday is the deadline. So again, you're submitting it on Friday? Um well, I'm actually no, it's um I'm hopefully I get it all done by tomorrow and then email tomorrow. If not, I have it till Friday cuz it's 27th it's due. >> Yeah. So you'll approve it tonight? All you're approving is the submission of it? Yeah. And once

195it comes back approved, then it becomes a proposed budget and then we have your public hearing and then you're fine. Uh the one thing that they did change in the legislation and there's a lot of debate about it is we used to have to pay to put in the paper. If you every district had to put their big budget [clears throat] in the paper, plus it's about $250. They changed it so that our our publication requirements now are on our website. We have to send the county office the link so they can check it and make sure the budget's there. So uh this is one state mandate I guess that actually saved us some money. Typically, they don't. It's usually cost us when they have a mandate, but it's a good thing. We're good? Thank

196you. See, that wasn't painful. It wasn't the budget. It wasn't the budget. It was the business. It wasn't the budget. It was the fact that I was late. If it wasn't that, it would be that. Thank you. All right. So we're on to board business one and two. May I have a motion to approve I'll second. Okay. Any comments or discussion? Questions on the adoption of board business motions one and two and It's a roll call. Mr. Borda? Yes. Mr. Brandon? Yes. Mr. Chen? Yes. Mr. Hitchener? Yes. >> Mr. Johnson? Yes. Mrs. McBride? Yes. >> Mr. Mills? Mr. Rosenberg? Abstain. Okay. Motion carried. And we're on to open session. The public comment period will be limited to agenda items only. Please be mindful that public comment periods are available to enable the public to give

197comments and feedback to the board. Personal matters and day-to-day operations are not appropriate subjects for board meetings. These can always be most effectively resolved with the appropriate staff members or administrators according to the chain of command concept. Questions may be directed to the appropriate school personnel or board through email. Please state your name and address for the record. All comments are limited to 5 minutes. No All righty. >> [clears throat] >> I just wanted to add that this uh this presentation will be on the website tomorrow. Great. Thank you. So we're on to facilities number one. May I have a motion for facilities motion number one? I'll move. Is there a second? Second. Any comments, questions, or discussion? Mr. Speaker, this would be motion which Mr. Grant submitted. I wanted to speak to If not,

198the question is on the adoption of facilities motion number one. It's a roll call. Mr. Borda? Yes. Mr. Brandon? Yes. Mr. Chen? Yes. Mr. Hitchener? Yes. Mr. Johnson? Yes. Mrs. McBride? Yes. Mr. Mills? Yes. Mr. Rosenberg? Yes. Motion carried. All right. Finance. May I have a motion to approve finance motions one through three? I'll move. Is there a second? I'll move to amend it. What was that? I I forgot. >> Second. Got a second over here. Oh, yeah. I'll second. Any questions, comments, or discussion? If not, the question is the adoption of finance motions one through three. This is also a roll call. Mr. Borda? Yes. Mr. Brandon? Yes. Mr. Chen? Yes. Mr. Hitchener? Yes. Mr. Johnson? Yes. Mrs. McBride? Yes. Mr. Mills? Mr. Rosenberg? Yes. Motion carried. >> [clears throat] >> May I ask

199that All right. Cuz that was all on the agenda items which was Please ask one person I'll second the second public comment Mr. You can ask a second. Do you have any other general questions? Or you know, I don't. >> [laughter] >> And then we're all done with the agenda, right? Okay. I'd like to make a motion to adjourn. I'll move. I'll second. All those in favor say aye. >> Aye. 8:56. Wow.