Boonton Township Board of Education Regular Meeting 02/25/2026

001All right. I would like to call this meeting to order 7:32 p.m. This is a regular session of the Boonton Township Board of Education held for the purpose of transacting appropriate board business. In compliance with chapter 231 laws of 1975, the notice of this meeting was advertised in the Morris County Daily Record. Copies of this agenda of this meeting were appropriately posted and made available to the public. Mr. Porter. Here. Mr. Brenner. Here. Mrs. Cavana. Here. Mr. Chen. Here. Mr. Hentzschel. >> Here. Mr. Thompson. Here. Mr. McGroarty. Here. Mr. Mills. Mr. Rosenberg. Also present Mr. Fortunato, Superintendent Principal. We have a quorum. Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with

002liberty and justice for all. So, we will be starting with this corner. My annual report on the Nacka Valley Commission to school safety data and student support overview. First we have Stacy. So, we're going to go over So, I'm going to do the SSDS report first cuz that's my least favorite part of my job. Um the by by law all New Jersey public school districts must use the student safety data system to report all incidents of violence, vandalism, weapons, substance abuse, and HIV incidents that occur in our schools. The information is collected to fulfill state federal reporting requirements. So, the following information covers September 2025 to December 2025. So, I'm happy to report that we had zero incidents of violence, vandalism, substance abuse, or weapons um here at RDS. We did have um six alleged

003HIVs and one confirmed HIV. We had a total of three in-school suspensions and two out-of-school suspensions. So, that's my least favorite part of my job. My favorite part of my job is this. I love supporting our students. So, um I wanted to take a minute and just go over um how we've changed the way our school supports students since um in the last like year and a half. So, my personal educational philosophy is that all students can and will learn when given the provided appropriate and meaningful supports. But, not all students learn in the same way or on the same day. So, I like to think of it as more of a exercise learning is more of an exercise in endurance than rather a race. So, what does that mean here? You know, everyone thinks,

004"Oh, I went to school. I know what happens in schools." No, school looks totally different than it did when we went to school um you know, just a few years ago. But, um when we were in school. So, the old way is the teacher stands in front, the teacher is the giver of information, and the student is the receiver of the information. Um so, our desks are in rows, the teacher is just really leading the class. Um but, the new way is a lot more collaboration, critical thinking, creativity. Um we have flexible learning environments, we have flexible seating, we have student-centered centered activities, and a lot of a lot more interactive um learning that's happening that I wish that we had Um so, the recent change is that we have moved to a more data-driven,

005progressive, and preventative approach. Um I know we've talked about the OG training in our kindergarten, first grade, working our way up to third grade. So, that's our proactive, preventative approach. Let's make sure we reach everybody so that way we don't have any gaps. Um but, in general, we provide supports through the lens of the MTSS, which is multi-tiered systems of support. New Jersey keeps changing this name just to add more acronyms and confusion. Um but, it's now NJTSS. It's the same thing. Um so, our previous system was we had like an EIS and IRS model. So, the EIS model is where teachers would push into classrooms and help other teachers out, which is wonderful. Everyone can always use an extra hand. I I love extra hands in my classroom. That's great. However, our new approach

006is that we're using our data, our benchmarking data, our classroom data, our observations, and we're targeting students in the weaknesses that we can identify. So, what does that mean? So, the old way, the new way. So, we're using data to predict and identify educational gaps in curriculum and achievements so we can take a proactive approach to students um prior to a student referral. So, the old way was that once a student started to show that they were having weakness or they were getting poor grades, they're then we would jump in and start doing some interventions. Now, we're doing that much, much quicker. The minute we see any kind of weakness, if we taught a skill, we see the weakness and we're like, "Oh, okay, let's pull some small groups so we can help." A lot

007of times can your your child might even get a tier two and your child doesn't know it. And they get some little extra help with that and then they're all right. So, RTI falls under the MTSS umbrella. So, RTI is response to intervention. There's a quiz on all the acronyms, but we're um it's part of the MTSS framework. So, if you look at MTSS as a big umbrella, RTI is under there. So, when we're looking at RTI, we're looking at interventions that can be behavioral, they could be academic, or they could be social-emotional. So, anytime we see a student who's starting to struggle, we call a meeting, we talk to the teachers, we talk to the parents, that kind of thing. Um So, we have this like to be to put it in short is

008that we have a framework in place that supports students at all levels at the first sign of academic weakness. So, when we have three tiers to RTI, which I'll talk about very briefly. If you have any questions, feel free to email me cuz I could talk about this all night, but I know we have a lot going on, so I'm going to be really quick. So, tier one is all students. It's universal supports. Those supports when I say all students, it's probably like 85% of our students might need something like that. Um then tier two would be some students. So, now we're looking at like 15, maybe 20. 20 is pretty high, but like 15 at most. Um those students are going to be identified through um our data collection, like I said, our classroom

009observations, our teacher con- conferences, when we talk to teachers and all that kind of thing, and they're pulled into smaller groups. Sometimes the um reading specialist or the SI teacher will push in. Um we're holding data meetings next week, data meetings where um we took our benchmarking that we just recently did cuz we did our second round of benchmarking. We do one in the fall, one in the winter, one in the spring. And we have data meetings right after benchmarking and we identify any kind of gaps that we see in our educational program. So, we're not looking at specific students, but we're looking at the grade level. We're looking and we're saying, "Where is the grade level that's like struggling the most? Where are their strengths? Where are their weaknesses? How can we capitalize on

010their strengths and improve their weaknesses?" So, that's tier two. That can be done by the classroom teacher or it can also be done by a push-in model. Um which also includes behavioral um Mr. Geritano pushes in, the counselors, the child study team pushes in, our BCBA, we utilize that kind of thing. Um tier three is small. So, tier three should be between 5 to 10% of our population who are getting pulled out of the classroom. So, they're getting pulled out of the classroom based on their, you know, identified weaknesses, and then we develop goals and objectives to really zero in on them. We progress monitor, we meet, we go through a whole intervention cycle, which is typically between 8 to 12 weeks depending on, you know, days, vacations, that kind of thing. Um and then

011we revisit. Are the interventions working? If they're working, great. Let's keep going. We want to make sure they're you want to make sure that they're sticking. If they're not working, what do we need to do to change it? Or if there's major red flags that we see zero growth, okay, we need to push through for a child study team evaluation. The supports that I'm talking about are all general education supports that are available to all students, even special ed students if they need it. Um So, RTI is really important because it gives an individual- individualized learning pace. So, if you have a child who's struggling a little bit, RTI allows you to slow down, take a minute, take a breath, go over it, whatever kind of weaknesses they're having, work with the child. Um it

012ensures enduring understanding. So, if you see I always say you think of it like you're building a house. We have to have a strong foundation. If you're building the foundation and the foundation's wobbly, the house will always be wobbly. So, we want to make sure that we have that really strong foundation. Our foundational skills here we've been working really hard with um and I'm So, I'm just excited because I know what we're going to talk about in the data meetings and we have good things to say. Um So, we're working on that foundation to make sure that all students have a nice, strong foundation. So, I talked a little bit about the classroom level support, the tier two support. Tier three is intense. And then, if the tier three support isn't working, we move for

013a child study team referral. We go through the child study team process to see if if special education is needed. So, our tier one supports, what does that look like? It does look a little bit different in every school, in every classroom, every teacher, every it all But, these are the these are what it's grounded It's grounded in its in explicit instruction. Making sure that students know these are the expectations, this is what we're looking for, this is what we're expecting of you. Um and we give them guided practice to help them get there. Differentiated instruction. So, you might walk into a classroom and kids are not working on the identical assignment. That's very common because we're differentiating the instruction to meet the needs of our students. Um active student engagement. We're using techniques like

014pair and share, um response cards, whiteboards. A lot of teachers, when you walk into their classrooms, you see that they'll be work like working a math problem and the students have a whiteboard and write the answer down on the whiteboard. Everybody hands it up. So, now I'm ensuring as a teacher everyone's holding up the answer, I have a quick temperature on if my students are following along with me. Um chunking content, breaking content into smaller pieces if needed, uh formative assessments. So, we're using ongoing checks for understanding. Like I said that um the whiteboard, that's a a quick assessment that we can do. Exit tickets, entry tickets. Just how how like feel the room. How's everybody doing? Thumbs up, thumbs down, in the middle. That just gives us teachers an idea of where we need

015to be. And then of course scaffolding, which is providing temporary supports. So, this is really important, um such as graphic organizers. A lot of these are just provided and we do that so eventually we can pull those supports away and they can stand on their own. Um so, that's what tier one That's like a brief overview of tier one cuz there's so many things that teachers are doing to help our students in our tier one supports. Um and that's just it's beautiful and it's wonderful and it's really a lot of it's a lot of tailored to the students and the the classrooms and the content. Tier two support. Tier two construct instruction varies. Like I said earlier, it could either be done by the teacher, it could be done by our reading specialist, our PSI

016teacher. All right, like I said, our BCBA. She works really closely with us, our um counselors and um child study team. So, when a student is identified at RVS as needing tier two support, we notify the parents and we invite them to an RTI meeting. This is something that's new this year. Um last year when we when I started we had a a very different system. So, it takes a little, you know, a little time to get everyone on board and so people all understand. So, now we're moving forward, [clears throat] we're at the point where we're able to invite parents to all the meetings. Everyone understands the process. We're It's a work in progress, so we're, you know, it's not perfect, nothing's perfect, but we are working really hard to make sure that um

017we're meeting the needs of all of our students. Um So, what what I think is important to to stress is just because a student a student is getting um tier two support or even tier three support doesn't mean that they need special education. So, the difference between RTI and even 504 is that if you have if you're getting special education, you're getting specially designed instruction. You're getting it by a certified special education teacher. That teacher is designing the instruction based on the goals and objectives in the IEP and making sure that our students are meeting their goals and objectives. Uh so, our tier three support is our most intensive support. I would think of tier three support and like I said, it doesn't mean just because your student is getting tier three support that they

018need special education, but if they're in tier three support and they're not making progress and we don't see any progress, then we make the move to refer to a special special ed. Um so, it's intensive data driven instruction. They're small groups, they're targeted. Um I think our small group No, no, I say three to five, but I don't think we have I mean there's only one group that's five students, but it's really small, it's targeted, it's progress monitored, similar to an IEP goal progress monitoring. Like we're keeping data to see where we're moving. Are we moving the student where they need to be? And then it's just continuous. We keep going. So, then if a student is doing really well in tier three, we're not just going to go great. Yeah, we're going to tell

019them how great they are, but then we're going to drop them down to tier two just to make sure that there's a slow progression back down to our tier one to make sure that everyone's getting the support that they need. So, I talked about like I said, intervention cycles can take anywhere between six to eight weeks. With the snow days and the vacations, we're working on 12 for this cycle. Um but what happens is we keep working with the students. If it's showing progression, we'll keep going. If it's not showing progression, we stop, we think, what do we need to do? How do we need to change it? And we move And then if we're not showing any progress or we're like there's red flags everywhere, we go right to a CST referral. Our support

020team. I'm the administrator who oversees it. Um our RTI team members are Elizabeth Boldino, Sam Ferratti, Olivia Savera, Kelly Vilas, uh Shera Giottano, and Justin Cordero. Um We meet regular regularly I can't talk today. Regularly. Close enough, you know what I mean. We're just >> [laughter] >> Um and we talk about our students. We are such data geeks. It's fantastic. If you're a data geek, I you would love this. Cuz we sit, we go through the data, we skim through it, we look for oh, wait. Well, we need more time on fractions cuz we only spent um four weeks on fractions and we need we really should be spending eight weeks on fractions. So, we make those changes. That's what our meetings are for. Um And then additional special expertise when necessary, we call in

021the director of special services, the school psychologist, the district BCBA, and any other, you know, OT or PT if we need it. So, that is a big change from I think what was happening before, so I wanted to just make sure that I covered that. Um so, what should you do if you're concerned about your child's progress? The first step is always to contact the teacher. The teacher knows your your child best. Um the teacher will then contact the RTI team. We'll collaborate, we'll talk about it, we'll hold a meeting, we'll invite you to the meeting, and then we'll evaluate to see what kind of supports that your child needs. And you're part of that process. So, other supports we have at at uh RVS that do not require MTSS or RTI, we have our

022homework club. We have our before and after school teacher support. The teachers have two days a week where they're available before after school to give extra help. And then we have WIN periods for grades five through eight where students can get during the school day time to work with teacher and if they're having any kind of difficulty or weakness, they can work that. Um I also wanted to talk about the difference between an IEP and a 504. It goes back to what I said earlier. Um So, they're both legal documents. A 504, a student must have a disability. Disability must adversely affect their education and their access to their education. So, a 504 will give you access, it gives you accommodations to access the the um curriculum. For example, a really common accommodation is extra

023time. Some students need a little extra time the processing speed to think about the question, they'll get the extra time. The difference with a five with an IEP is that that provides that special education teacher. So, there's three prongs to special education um eligibility. You must have a disability, it must adversely affect your education, and then that third prong is you need a teacher. You need specially designed instruction. Your instruction should be different than everybody else's and it's designed specifically for you and that's what we that's what we use our special education teachers for. So, I just I was trying to be as quick as I can. I'm going to breathe now. Um Are there any questions? I have a question. What's BCBA? Oh, our behaviorist. Okay. >> Dr. Angelee with the good heart. She's

024fantastic. Yes. Do you see AI helping you predict before you said you were looking instead of waiting for the child to fail? You're trying to predict before a child gets there. Can AI help with any of that? Yeah. Absolutely. Um AI can So, what I like to do with AI is when I So, we look at the benchmarking data, right? So, if we're like we and it tells you what specific um standards the child may be weak in. So, AI is great for you like, "Okay, help me develop a um RTI plan that addresses this standard. Give me um skills and practice that we could use and progress monitoring tools." So, it gives you all these ideas. We kind of keeps me on Yeah. We kind of piece meal it from there. So, the the

025AI program that we're currently using pieces of data, we they filter in the screeners or benchmark assessments and then I get data that's able to identify the common errors in possible assessments from one year to the next as well. So, it compiled all that information and spit it back out to the teachers like, "These are the specific standards that's consistently weak for the student." So, then we can design a differentiated plan for that student. And we can get those those pieces earlier with the AI tool as well. But I have to tell you, my team likes to dig into the data. So, we use AI, but we use it as more of like giving us some ideas to kind of develop a plan. I haven't seen them just throw information in and say, "Okay, this

026is it." So, I think that's important too because you know, knowing your students and knowing what they can do, where they're struggling, you know, AI doesn't Yes. Um, I don't [clears throat] know if we have enough time to tell this exactly. Do you think you're capturing more students in the three tiers of support than you were, you know, a few years ago or before all these changes happened? I think so. I think we're catching them before they get there. Okay. So, I think Do you have data about the number of students? I don't have data prior to me getting here on that. Um, I have data since I started, but I I don't have anything to compare to before you Yeah, we don't have those those comparisons, but what I I can tell you also

027is that we're seeing significant percentage increases. I think I mentioned this at the couple of board meetings about the number of students and percentage of students that have made progress compared to those students who have not had success since we've had training with OG. We're able to track that where we're able to have targeted instruction not only because of the OG training, but because of this approach. So, again, it's hard to compare before the now to the it's a different model. But but the in the increases and the identification early on is is pretty substantial or significant. There you go. I just wanted to say that I appreciate the presentation and I think the multi-tiered system of supports is like one of the best practices that you have in education, so It is. I mean,

028I I get so excited about it. Like I truly love it and I love that we can help kids that way and I'm so proud of our team and our teachers for what they're doing and, you know, we've we've made progress, significant progress, and we're kind of working our way up and we're going to continue to make progress and I just see our projection to be amazing. Okay, keep up that work. And for those that are not familiar with the MTSS, it's kind of like a standard of care in health care, so it's it's research-based, it's highly effective, and it's really good for students, so thank you. Does this necessitate you having more small group instruction rooms? No. This is called foreshadowing. >> [laughter] >> Great. I like the way you think. It's actually true.

029Thank you both. Thank you. Thank you. Hi. We're just going to have a feasibility study presentation from Porzio, Bromberg and Newman Associates. He brought something for Frank as well. He's >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, that's the one that I have. Okay. One slide. That's it. That's just one slide. I heard it was I think they said just convinced it one slide. We are very efficient. Yeah. Three. Where's your thumb drive? If we can solve the problem Yeah, that's it. I don't have another thumb drive here. There's a clicker over there. Maybe the clicker? Clicker with the mouse. Is this the one? That's it. I put it in it was going to be the first Okay. I'll put it in here. I just put it on the thumb drive a minute Yeah, I was going to

030say can we do that? Yes, sure. You can put the thumb drive in this one of my computers and then it will work. Is this it here? Do you want to punch? Okay, where you punching? Sorry. I didn't know. Where's your thumb drive? You know, I had it and I put it I don't know. I thought it was a smart board. I never thought it was I didn't have these fancy community boards. I thought it was a smart board. I guess that one shot. Yeah, it would work. That's it. I'm good. >> [laughter] >> I'm good. I'm good. It's easier if you just stop No, it's not. Oh, that's all right. >> [cough] [clears throat] >> Start. Intro like an intro to our public I'm storing that while I try to get it up. All

031right. Hi everyone. While we're getting up the the PowerPoint, I'm just going to start with a little bit of an introduction. My name is Kerry Wright. I'm a partner at Porzio, Bromberg and Newman along with my colleague Vito Gagliardi. He's my partner at Porzio, Bromberg and Newman. We're a law firm. Until 2 weeks ago, we were located in Morristown. Now we're located in Parsippany. Um, we are the co-chairs of our education practice at the law firm and we have had the pleasure of working with a number of school districts across the state on a variety of issues, but in particular, one of our subspecialties is working with districts to identify alternatives to their educational programming. And that's what we were retained by the board here to do with regard to a feasibility study. So, we

032were retained to look at the educational options available to the township with respect to educating your high school students. We then put together a team of experts that are experts in their individual fields. So, we're good. Yeah, we're good. Oh, wonderful. Okay. Um, so Vito and myself are lawyers. We all facilitate the process of the feasibility study, um, but we do not write the feasibility study. So, we retain the gentlemen in the back who I'm going to introduce in just a minute. And they are responsible for actually putting together the analysis that we're going to hear from this evening. So, what I wanted to just before I introduce them is go over the Yeah, okay. Go over the scenarios that we looked at. So, as far as the educational options for the township or to

033educate high school students, we identified three scenarios. One of which is the status quo. We always look at the status quo, which is Mountain Lakes, right? It's where your high school kids go now. So, we look at the financial implications of where they go now, your enrollment projections, the demographic information, how your population is going to change, how Mountain Lakes' population might change. Um, and then we looked of course at the educational programming available at Mountain Lakes. The other two options that we identified as potential scenarios to study were, um, Boonton Township sending its students to Kinnelon High School and sending its students to Morris Hills Regional. Both of those school districts were studied by the experts. I'm going to introduce them as I said in a minute. Um, with regard to whether there is,

034um, whether it's feasible So, we call it a feasibility study for a reason because we're not advocating for anything and they're not advocating for anything. We are providing your elected officials with information so that they can make a decision on whether they want to pursue a change in your, um, educational configuration. So, the feasibility study is the first step in that process and it has to analyze a number of different things. You have to look at the enrollment projections as I said, the demographics, um, the racial makeup of your students and the students at the other >> [laughter] >> You have to look at the financial implications both where you are as well as where you might move your students. What is what do the finances look like? And of course, the education. Also part

035of that is looking at the capacity. If we look at Kinnelon High School, can Kinnelon High School fit your students? One of the things that you're going to hear as soon as I introduce our experts to you is what the standard is. And I want to go over that standard that the commissioner would look at if the board were to decide to try to make a change. And I think it's important for everyone here to understand what that standard is because you're going to hear it in a negative. So, when we write these reports, we look at the statute requires us to analyze whether there will be any substantial negative impact on any of these areas. Substantial negative educational impact, substantial negative financial impact, or substantial negative racial impact. We do that because that's what

036the law requires us to look at. But we wanted to let you know that up front so you don't wonder, "Why are you continuing to talk about how there's no negative impact?" Because that's That is what the standard is and what has to be included in a feasibility study. But we're certainly going to go over any of the positive and negatives that were reviewed as a result of the analysis that was done. >> [clears throat] >> When we're done going over the specific issues, my colleague Vito is going to go over the process so that everyone will know >> [clears throat] >> if the board decides to move forward, what does that process look like, how long does it take, and then we will entertain as many questions as the board has or the public

037has at their at their pleasure. So I'd like to introduce our experts who are going to go over the specific pieces of the study. First, the educational expert is Tom Fegley. Tom has more than 40 years of educational experience as a genius and a superintendent in various school districts in New Jersey. He's spent almost 30 years as a superintendent with his specific experience with sending-receiving relationships. So he analyzed the educational aspects of the study. I also have Robert Scardamalia. Robert has spent 40 years as a school demographer. He is one of the nation's most foremost school demographers. So he does the first step in this process, which is determining how many kids you have and where are they. Right? So he also will look at the racial backgrounds of your students because it's one of

038the things that the state wants to look at. The state makes it clear that if you're moving student populations, it can't impact substantially the racial aspects of composition of those schools. So that is something that Robert studied. And he also looked at the capacities, as I said, an important aspect of the feasibility study. And last but not least, Steve Zea does the finances because if the finances don't work, there's no real opportunity for making change. Steve Zea has spent about 25 years as a school business administrator in a variety of school districts in New Jersey, and he has significant experience with sending-receiving relationships and writing feasibility studies like that. We don't know if you have anything to go over before I turn it over to Bob. The only other thing I wanted to point out

039is when we talk about the other options you have. Obviously, we didn't negotiate any arrangements with those folks, but it wasn't like we picked them out of the sky to study. These are geographically proximate districts that theoretically are ready, willing, and able to educate your children. They willingly agreed to participate in the study, so they weren't evaluated passively. We hear from the experts that they interacted with officials in those both in those places. So we When we talk about options, these are not theoretical options. These are real-world options that if you wanted to proceed, you have obviously the status quo, but two other districts that have an interest in educating your high school children, and I'll talk at the end about what you would need to do in order to pursue that path a little

040further once you had a chance to absorb what the experts have to say, the written study, and any community input that you get. Certainly want to make it clear to you this is not an academic exercise. These are real-world, existing feasible opportunities that we are here to evaluate and present for your consideration. Okay. Bob? Come on. Bob, do you Do you need me to stand up here as a sad version of Al White? >> [laughter] >> It depends on whether you're going to let me know which button to push. I I can So far I did. I did You can't see all the buttons to push. It's all over you. You got the control. So >> [laughter] >> I'm going to push the other button. Yeah, pretty cool. Cool. Um as you've already gotten a

041little bit of information, I don't know if I'll dwell on that. I've been doing demographic analysis since graduate school in 1977. So census and demographic data is just my life's work. So My button pushing is good now. No, I'm I'm here, Tom. I'm here, Bob. You >> [laughter] >> You know like yourself should be pushing his own buttons. I need a copy of the report so I can follow along. Oh, okay. Okay. Next slide. You're all familiar with the geography. I don't need to dwell on this. Just as Vito said, the location of the high schools Whoop. It's good. Okay. Don't Don't touch the screen. Let's go back and then go I thought The location of the high schools are part of that mix in the decision process. And all of them geographically qualify. Morris

042Hills, the regional district, you know, includes Rockaway Township as well as Mountain Lakes. Oh, I thought that was But I'm not going to touch it. The Rockaway Township and Boonton as well as Denville and Wharton make up that regional district. So a lot of the data that is in the report you're going to see for Morris Hills is a combination of all of those component areas. One of the first questions in demographic analysis is how does an area change? You know, is it growing? Is it declining? The population in the report includes data mainly from the Census Bureau. That's the primary source of our demographic data in the report. And it provides a history back to 1940 of decennial census populations for each of the communities. And basically what you see is growth of all

043of all of the areas, but not consistent. Because there have been periods of decline throughout particularly in in New York. The The entire Northeast area has gone through cyclical changes. And that's what you see in there. There's a difference. Morris Regional is a combination of all of those communities. That's the largest community with around 56,000 compared to Denville, which is around 10,000. So in addition to just totals, the report contains a a pretty comprehensive community profile of a lot of economic, demographic, and social characteristics. That data comes from the decennial census and a thing called the American Community Survey, which is where I get all of the good socioeconomic data that comes out. And it So I mentioned to the characteristics that you see here. One of the most important one is age. Age distribution.

044Age distribution has a huge impact on family formation and movement, migration of population. So it's one of the keys. And what it shows is that median the median population age population of Boonton Township is pretty high. 48.2 years. Now, in relative terms, that's That's getting pretty old. That's like, you know, I'm I'm on the upper side of that, so I'm I'm pulling that up in Boonton. Compared to Mountain Lakes, which is 31.7% median. Kinnelon, 44.8% Not percent, years. So it's a relatively older population that has implications for a whole variety of issues related to school enrollment. There's more detailed information than what's listed in the report, including data on housing, housing median cost, value of owner-occupied housing, housing of different types, structures, single-family homes versus multi-family homes, and median incomes. Median incomes are relatively high

045and well over New Jersey state as a whole. Next slide. So one of the basics is looking at school enrollment trends. And we've looked at the enrollment from the fall [clears throat] Is it the fall beginning year enrollment 2018-19 through 2023-24 in each district. And in Boonton Township, as I'll tell you, uh you know, what what the individual changes are. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail. You can see them there. What you see here is the actual reported enrollment for each district and totals. But as this shows the total, the data data that we gathered and the data that was used for the analysis is more detailed because we need data by year, by individual grade level in order to look at changes in enrollment population as well as the the

046projections. [clears throat] In general, you see variability in each of those grades. You can see that there's increases and decreases. So there isn't there isn't just a consistent up and down rate in the enrollment trend. It's important to recognize in the period of time that we're looking at, COVID pandemic had a huge impact and so it it dramatically changed any uh procedure to strain of increasing enrollment to decline because just in that one year period of 2020, so many things impacted enrollment uh and and across you know but unique to Booton Township or any of the other communities, affected everyone. So that's an important thing for you to keep in mind. First data. Current births in five years become kindergarten students. So what's occurring in our fertility level and birth data is important particularly for

047looking at uh futures enrollment. Birth counts come out of the New Jersey Department of Public Health and and uh little sidelight, New Jersey is great at providing access to this data unlike New York where it's a real pain in the neck to try and get the same level of detail. Off the topic. What you see in this is these are cumulative across all of the communities but what you see is generally uh an increase although not a consistent increase in the number of births and there are a lot of things that impact that uh housing changes, migration changes and and such and the basic structure of the population. But basically you see uh an increase until that last year. And post that last year, you're going to see births decline. So as a demographer, I

048kind of have to put on more of my demographer rather than school hat and just to kind of go into a little bit of detail. >> [clears throat] >> You're probably all familiar with the with the national trends we hear about of declining fertility levels, declining numbers of births, slower national growth and it's important to understand what those future impacts are and certainly the projection understanding of what's going to happen in the future is um is important stuff. Except there's some really key things to keep in mind. The absolute number of births is generally looked by looking at fertility levels, the average number of children a woman will have over her lifetime. Some cultural fertility. Uh but that has to operate on a second thing and that's the number of women in childbearing age. Okay.

049So it's kind of hard to think at this time of increasing births when we hear about uh declining births nation wide and in our communities and lower fertility levels. But what you have is very low fertility in rates but you have in this period of time the millennial generation which is very large, larger than us baby boomers in terms of uh size entering into their childbearing years. So you have very low fertility but you've got a lot of women in childbearing age. Okay. And so it's generated has generated much that increase. Now for the future, what's going to happen? Are we already So these same women of childbearing age, millennials, they're going to be hitting their peak levels and then aging out of their childbearing years. So what's going to happen? Fewer women, low fertility

050rates, births are going to continue that. Other things that come into play here. Uh housing. Uh new housing in the communities is an important component. How are they changing? What types of housing is being built? Uh so each of the communities were contacted to get that data and wasn't necessarily always the easiest thing to do. Uh often times required an OPRA um Pardon, drying up. Uh OPRA request uh public records request to get that data. But even with that um the the town community officials may have uh some records of that but it really doesn't tell you all there is to uh link it. Uh really doesn't tell you all of it there is to know but that you need to know about individual developments. So often times it was getting back to an individual

051developer to get more information and part of that is well there are things we don't know. Just because there's a development plan or even approved doesn't mean that it actually gets constructed. If it does get constructed, when is it going to get constructed? And how uh what's the time period? How many units? What types of units? Are these uh studio or single bedroom apartments? Are they conversions of uh single family homes? Are they multi-bedroom homes? All of those uh come into play and that there's so many questions about that that it is frankly difficult. But within these communities, there there isn't a whole lot of development like happening except for Morris Hills. Morris Hills regional is where there's the highest level of expected development. And again, expected doesn't necessarily mean constructed and occupied. So it's

052so it's a an informative number but one that you don't unfortunately kind of have to see how it plays out in actuality from this game. Those 338 uh uh possible students are spread out because we don't know when that timing will be. We don't know anything about what their grade level would be uh and so it's it's an informative number but it goes into the analysis and into the projections. Uh there are assumptions made about how that timing would be made and distributed across uh grade levels. So the enrollment projections enrollment projections uh uses standard what's called cohort survival ratio method. Uh it's pretty standard way of getting uh that for short-term projections. And it's a relatively mechanical process. You're simply looking at uh how students age through the educational process. Uh how many what's

053the number of students in each grade in each year versus how many were there in previous grade in the previous year. So the ratio between how many fourth graders were there last year and how many fifth graders are there this year is is like I said a pretty mechanical thing. What that ratio over one means is that there's some external influence that is bringing in new students. Could be migration, uh could be changes in public versus private education, uh there's a whole variety of things that go in there. A ratio under one means again there is something else going on, out migration of families or other shifts in public private. So that ratio becomes a historical measure that gives us a look at short-term within a five year period. It's pretty accurate because we've got

054a long history of grade level students and we can look at that average over the that period and project into the future. And so in that process, that's where these scenarios come into play because we're doing projections for each of these individual components that we're talking about uh for Booton Township, Kinnelon, Morris, Morris Hills and over to evaluate uh the impacts of that analysis. I'm kind of getting ahead of myself in a minute here. So capacity is as as Carrie Ann Vito uh mentioned is an important piece of the analysis but it's also important to remember that this this computation is something of a static measure because what we know today is we know the capacity of an individual school and we know the number of students and we can you know calculate whether uh

055today there is excess capacity or not. And when we do the projections, we can do that same calculation but based on what? That static measure. So the projections can tell us that uh given the way students are um programmatically or physically assigned in those schools, will in the future a school have excess capacity or deficient capacity. Okay. And what do find out? >> [clears throat] >> Is that in in most of these cases there is there is both current capacity and future capacity. To varying degrees. The one area that stands out is Morris Knolls where there is currently excess capacity, but if you look at the projections that static measure would say there's not enough capacity in the building. You know, again, static measure. It ignores and and ignores the fact that districts have a

056lot of things in their toolbox to deal with space. Maybe it's physical changes, maybe it's programmatic changes. So, again, it's one of those things that is informative but not prescriptive. If it's not something that is functional And one of the big important pieces is thank you, David. Is the racial impact analysis. Now, this is a lot of data and the report goes into a lot more detail, but this gives you a look at the race and ethnic distribution for each of the >> [clears throat] >> different scenarios. Again, keep in mind that the distribution is based on 23-24 school enrollment data we have. Each of these districts have become more diverse over time and the report will give you the 2018-19 same data. And so you can look at each of the districts has become

057more diverse. Not necessarily in the same way. Maybe higher you know, in Hispanic changes or Asian changes, but each of the districts have become more diverse over time. And it's not >> [clears throat] >> any of the other communities in New Jersey, New York, or anywhere across the country. That is just a fact of where we are. In the 2018-19 school year Boonton Township student body was more than 85% white and 13% minority. Total minority. So if you look at this total minority is the sum of the Hispanic, black, Asian, and multi-race. Plus a little bit where folks have identified them selves as American Indian, Native Alaskan, uh very small categories. By 20 So, 18-19 85 86% white, 13% minority. By 23-24 that has shifted to 76% white and 24% minority. So each each school

058each district has experienced similar shifts, but not not the same. There's variation within each of them. Um To [clears throat] kind of summarize those changes with still the same racial categories, but what we do is look at what's the racial makeup of the Boonton Township students and what are in Mountain Lakes. And what would be the shift in Mountain Lakes without Boonton Township? What would be the shift in Kinnelon or Morris Hills or Morris Knolls with the introduction of Boonton Township [clears throat] students? And you can see that there's variation in those percentages in all of them because the composition is different in each of the district. And what you also see is that racial change is not that large. All of them are moving in direction of increased diversity and so the impact of

059the Boonton Township students in any of these districts is not going to be a large negative. Okay. Uh the Morris Hills high schools you see a little bit of a decline in minority uh percentage in both of those in Mountain and Kinnelon very small increase. Mountain Lakes without Boonton Township a very small increase. And even in the worst case I might even say it's the worst case. Even in the most extreme case in Morris Hills there was a 6.6% decline in the minority population. That represents about 80 85 students. 85 students spread over four high schools. So it is but it results in a minor way. Significant number. So, conclusions. As we see in communities across the country the population is becoming more diverse just as these Morris County communities are. You also see changes

060that are consistent across all areas and that's also the case in in this area. So yes, there are differences that are among the different test scenarios, but those differences represent no significant negative impact as a result of the potential changes in sending receiving agreements. The projections indicate that Mountain Lakes has limited capacity currently and in future under those static uh scenario. With the sending uh receiving agreement with Boonton Township. Kinnelon and Morris Morris Hills high schools are currently under capacity and even under the status quo projection have the greatest level of excess capacity. That's also the case should a new sending receiving agreement be um engaging with Boonton Township. There's currently excess capacity in Morris Knolls but that's only current capacity. And as I mentioned previously the future capacity and if Boonton Township students were

061to attend Morris Knolls there would on paper in this static measure be a deficiency capacity, but again that that's a static measure and there are multiple ways in which a district can deal with those type of capacity changes. So what we're going to do the other two sections and then thank you very much, Bob. So, the next component is the educational component and so I'll ask Eric come on up. Good evening. Um I as you can see I've been superintendent for 30 years and I happen to be right now doing an interim superintendency back in Mount Arlington which was my very first district where I was appointed in 1996 at the age of 12. I might have that year a little closer. So, um we examined the obviously the the same exam that we're doing

062and we're looking at the send-receive relationship between Boonton and Township and Mountain Lakes and and the alternative. So, we looked at several areas right across the board in terms of academics and educational programming. So, we look at the academic programs, we look at the athletic and extracurricular activities, and educational programming. Um the academic performance outcomes, the visual performing arts, STEM, transportation, um visited the facilities, and looked at the overall array of course work and after review of these areas it's our opinion that Boonton Township if they were to move from its current send-receive relationship with Mountain Lakes to either Kinnelon or Morris Knolls would not have any substantial change in its educational opportunity for vast majority of its students and there would be no negative substantial impact um as set forth in the governing law.

063Furthermore, the students from Boonton Township um if they uh stayed in their current send-receive relationship um you know, they would continue with the status quo. So, moving to either of the two high schools would not appreciably increase or decrease the educational opportunities for most of the students. Um regarding the program review of educational or general education, all the high school offer a robust uh selection of APs >> [clears throat] >> um and a robust selection of honors as we give you number in here and all the same. In all three schools the programs are highly regarded. They offer educational opportunities and academic academic growth alongside extensive visual and performing arts programs, ELL programs and co-curricular. This one. It's Oh, I give you the chance. Extra privilege? Really? I can do that. Okay. Bye. Here we

064go. First one. >> [clears throat] >> Okay. Um So, um if we look at the we look at AP, uh IB, SAT, and ACT scores, um then one finds a level of consistency of high performance um which which defies declaring one high school superior to another. Um uh if if you look at this the performance scores it's in detail and we tried to phrase it and read them all. It's in the report. There's sort of a pattern of flip-flopping of who comes in first, who comes in second. Uh a quick example of Mountain Lakes if they're best in algebra when you compare the three high schools, Mountain Lakes was number one. When you turn the page and go to geometry now Mountain Lakes is number three. And that kind of pattern of who's first, who's

065second, who's third continually changes hands by small margins and and most and most of the time uh you know, that's a normal fluctuation. So, all in all we're looking at uh three high schools um with uh uh this similar academic performance. So, I'll do the classy. Um This being uh staff, we look at staff and programming in all three high schools. So, um we look at uh the qualifications and and of general ed and the and the programming in general ed, AP, uh and IB program, visual and performing arts, ELA ELA co-curricular activities, special ed programs. They are all uh if you there's a full array, everything is described in the report. Uh there's nothing lacking in any one of those schools. There's a slight slight um edge for Morris Knolls in their size in

066offering special education but some special education classification. So, um they um what I'm referring to is students who may be sent out of district and we're talking about a very very small minority of students. They may have uh a more of an opportunity if a child falls into a particular class classification that they offer because of their size as compared to Mountain Lakes and generally that's dependent on the number of students that have the same classification that it's worth having a class for. Um but that's what's only small aspect. In terms of professional um um development they have um excellent programs and professional development, the teacher experience and education levels are all above par and their technological technology capacity is excellent again in all three schools. Say that. Um For the site visits, um I

067I visited all three schools, met with staff um all three um all of the schools were anxious to uh walk around or walk me around with huge numbers of staff because they all would like your business um so to speak. And um we looked at the educational space, you know, all above par quality. They all have um uh state of the art media centers, art, music, science, and technology labs, plenty of visual performing arts space and uh and athletic facilities are all up to par uh and beyond. Uh each of the high schools have taken appropriate measures for safety. Um I was um impressed that each one uh has security cameras all over. Um full-time uh resource booth officers or class three special officers basically do the same same uh same people with different titles.

068Um the former resource officers are retired and uh and they they are there for protection carrying appropriate weapons. Uh all three high schools um they are all within location and and uh it would not not one would be a problem for uh an unusual distance for your your kids to travel. Uh in in the athletics and um extra curricular activities again um it's all three schools are offering extensive array of team sports. Again, the only unique piece is Mountain Lakes and Boonton Township have a combined sports program and they have clubs. I don't know your community. I don't know how that's how important that is. Some places that's a hot button here. But um so, this tradition of combining recreational programs may act as an informal feeder uh program for your high school sports and

069may [clears throat] may be a significant uh community consideration. You would know that but I would not. Um so, again uh reiterate after reviewing these areas, you know, it's our opinion that if Boonton Township were to move from its current sending receiving relationship with Mountain Lakes to either Mountain Lakes High School or Morris Knolls High School, there would not be a substantial change in the educational opportunity for the vast majority of students. There would be no substantial negative impact as set forth in the governing law. And Boonton uh and students from Boonton Township would also likely continue to thrive in their current 9-12 sending receiving relationship with Mountain Excellent. The The one thing that I wanted to mention cuz I don't know that it was clear. If you you listened to the last two reports,

070you heard from the demographic standpoint that there's capacity at Morris Hills that there isn't at Morris Knolls and then we're listening to an educational analysis of Morris Knolls. It's because the superintendent of schools of the district said that if your students were to attend that district, they would be placed at the Morris Knolls High School and he would rather reconfigure that high school for a number of reasons. So, again, not something chosen by us. The superintendent said, "If the students from Boonton Township came to uh our district, that's the high school they'd attend." So, that's why despite what you heard demographically it may be counterintuitive, the educational analysis was done based upon Morris Knolls cuz that's the place where he said your children would be assigned. So, with that I'll turn things over to Steve

071Seaver, the financial analyst. I got that one. You need help with yourself? I can handle that, buddy. Come on. I'll stand by in case you have a problem. All right. So, the um in the financial analysis, we have um me and you you got my background um and my colleague Hugh Genevieve's uh prepared the financial uh section of the report. And we start by building a framework, a model, a financial model that includes number of different resources. Um primarily we use actual audited financial statements um two years. We uh budgets. Um we use the demographic uh enrollments that was outlined earlier. We use other information from state sources, from the districts. Um and we use these to project revenues and expenses over a five-year um time frame of the study. Um we also have some

072key assumptions and expectations. So, um the tax levy and tax rates are estimated for comparative purposes. So, we are developing a comparison so that we in the best order of our abilities compare apples to apples um between the different scenarios. Um it's what I like to say it's a projection, it's not a prediction. There's a lot of things that could happen that the individual boards can do over the next five years that might change the tax levies or the tax rates. But we have to try and um uh compare the different scenarios so we we factor that in uh for comparative purposes. State aid in the educational programs for the same reason are fixed for the '22-'23 school year. We assume full implementation in year one um to try and um show you the realistic

073view of what the financial impact would be. In reality, and we'll talk about this in a moment, um the students that are currently in uh Mountain Lakes, if you withdrew, would continue there and graduate through. So, there would be a phase-out approach. But, with a limited time frame, 5 years, if we phased out over 4 years, we'd only really see 1 year of full financial impact. So, we assume um uh that it takes place in year in year one. We use the regression analysis to project 5 years of equalized value. Um and each scenario identifies the savings and the various costs. The tables that I'm going to show on the next slide, they um the values are in thousands and the tax rates are in $100 of equalized property value. A savings is a positive

074number. Um a cost is a negative number. So, let's jump into the financial impact. So, for scenario one, we're looking at withdrawing from Mountain Lakes and sending to Morris Hills Regional. And what we see is the three communities impacted, the tax levy and the tax rate for the status quo, which remains stays the same, and a 5-year um average sending um students to the uh Morris Hills Regional uh School District. And it's important to realize that it's a 5-year average but annual number. So, each one of these numbers um takes the individual uh years and averages them. So, when we're looking at Township and um the new send-receive relationship, they're saving about $394,000 a year. So, that's an average number over the 5-year period, but each year over that 5-year period, on average, you'd expect

075to see a savings of about $394,000. For Morris Hills, the savings is is higher. It's one one or just a little bit above $1 million. And as you would expect, Mountain Lakes sees additional costs of about $1.5 million. So, in scenario two, where you're sending the students to Kinnelon, uh Boonton saves in this scenario Boonton Township saves in this scenario as well, $187,000. Kinnelon, $1.5 million. And Mountain Lakes, as you would expect, has the same amount of 1.46. >> [cough] >> Whether you go to Kinnelon or Morris Hills, it doesn't there's no impact on your choice to Mountain Lakes. So, it's the same uh additional cost regardless of what scenario it is. And so, you might have flying questions on on these tables now. >> I would imagine we're going to say the same thing.

076I'm curious what you think. Go ahead. Uh what's the assumed tuition rates in the in the savings here? Cuz I if it's all CBP versus what we're paying, I would imagine that We're not going to say the same thing. It implies that if the savings are probably significantly lower and depending on what if you were to agree to something that's way lower than CBP would say, Morris Knolls or or or Kinnelon. Yes, that's right. I'll I'll going to get into that in a moment. If I if I don't answer later on in the But the status quo for Mountain Lakes assumes basically what we're paying today. So, that's right. That's That's That's an actual number. The other scenarios are then modeled based off of just their cost and our student ratio. >> That's correct. I

077was going to I knew Steve was going to get to this, but I wanted to say it while the chart was in front of you so you could see the impact of it. This is a very conservative analysis. So, Steve's assumption, which is the only assumption you can make right now, is that they're charging you the maximum permitted by law, the certified cost of people, which is what you were referencing. So, naturally, if you were to find a new partner, you are free to engage in negotiation with them because their savings, looking at the Kinnelon number, right? $1.5 million a year, they could still do very well even if they charge you something less than the actual cost. But, since no such discussions have taken place, your proper thing to do is what Steve has

078done here, which is to assume that they charge you the maximum permitted by law. So, I know that's part of his analysis, so I want you to see what it looks like with those numbers there. Your savings compared to Kinnelon's, those numbers could be a lot closer depending on what those discussions uh turned out to result in if you were to talk to Kinnelon as a potential partner. Those actual savings may be larger. Um I can I can touch on that now. Um so, we assume, as I as I I indicated earlier, that the educational programs do not change. All right? Because we need to have a a a set um program in order to see what the funding is. If you have um students coming into a district or leaving the district, um we

079have to assume, because the programs need to be the same, that the um student-teacher ratio is maintained. So, you either have to hire new teachers or you have, depending on what school it is, for the Morris school, you don't have to let teachers go because we want to maintain the same educational program. It's not the same educational program if your class sizes go up or they go significantly down because you're adding students or you're taking them away. So, in order to maintain the same program, we have to keep that student-teacher ratio the same. That may or may not be the case in a particular community. So, if you're sending to Kinnelon, you they may not need um the number of teachers that we identified. They may increase their class sizes down. But, we can't assume

080that. We want to assume that the programs are the same because that's the level playing field that we need to compare one scenario to another. So, just one more clarification question. That assumes then that you built in the new districts, if potentially that we would go there, you would we would hire teachers and the reverse with Mountain Lakes, they would have to shed teachers [clears throat] in order to maintain the ratios. Absolutely, and that's the lead into what I was just going to I was I was going to go next. So, the $1.4 million, if you did the quick calculation, you could see that your 190 or 200 students um >> [clears throat] >> generate revenue in excess of that. But, it that number factors in the savings that the district can get because they

081no longer have to educate with those students. And that's teachers, it's you know, our staff, benefits, materials, things along those lines. >> It's the net effect of the revenue and then the operating cost together. >> [clears throat and cough] >> Absolutely. So, we we we talked a lot about negative impacts, substantial negative impact. Steve, that's an additional cost. That's a negative impact, isn't it? It It's a negative impact. My My goal here is to see or the the charge is to see whether it's a substantial negative impact. And we could say that it's not a substantial negative impact for a number of reasons. Um the first is there's a 4-year phase-out, right? So, that 1.4 is not 1.4 in any one year. It's about 370,000 each year over 3 years. So, it's negative, but we

082don't think it's substantial. And why not? First, um when we compare it to their current expenditures and tax revenue, it's not it's not substantial. In terms of the expenditures, it's less than 1% of their total expenditures. Tax revenue is less than cap, about 1.5%. Another reason is because we've seen reductions in uh Boonton students um going to um Mountain Lakes in the past. In 2018-19, you had about 256 students in um uh that you sent to uh Mountain Lakes. And then, in 2022-23, there were only 199. So, a loss of uh 57 students. So, we know that um Mountain Lakes can handle the reduction of students over time. And that's what the phase-out provides. It provides provides a balanced um to phase out over time. The The next thing is that over the years that

083we identified, there were there were significant surplus numbers at the end of the year in excess of $2 million. So, some tighter budgeting initially can help uh with that transition. And lastly, there's a um Mountain Lakes has about $7 million in reserves, and those could also be used to help with the transition. For all those reasons, we do not see that it's a a substantial financial negative impact. And that's part of our conclusion. You could see that um regardless of the scenario, Boonton and the sending district, they saved money. So, it is a it is a it's a positive move regardless of which scenario the board selects. Morris Hills Regional the benefit to Boonton Township is greater in the 5-year period that we identified Kinnelon over some long-term financial benefits. So, they don't rely as

084much on state aid. So, any fluctuations of state aid might impact Morris Hills Regional more than it would Kinnelon. Kinnelon's median teacher salary is lower than Morris Hills's. So, looking into the future on a long-term basis, there is some things that point to Kinnelon as being a very good [clears throat] option as well. One thing I will note is and it's a little bit more intangible, but Kinnelon has fewer students. They have about 500 students in their high school. Morris Hills, depending on the school, has over 1,000. So, your 200 students going into either one of those schools will will increase the denominator, right, to to make the cost per pupil go down. And if we're looking at 200 students over 500 student population all right, you're you're talking about 40% uh you know, coming

085in. And that 40% is a lot bigger than if it was off of 1,000 [clears throat] it would be 20%. So, what I'm saying there is you would have a greater impact on your cost per pupil on the cost per pupil in Kinnelon than you would at Morris Hills because your students would be a greater ratio than they would be in in Morris Hills Regional, which is which is something to consider. Um so, that's our our our final statement is that we >> [clears throat] >> we do not see any substantial negative financial impact for any of the districts in the study and they they they two scenarios that you best us to identify show a lot of positive promise for your consideration. Thanks, Steve. All right, so um the report is clear, all right,

086no substantial negative demographic, educational, financial impact in any of these scenarios, meaning that it is um the conclusion of these experts that they are viable options for your consideration. There are no um legal impediments. So, right now you have just received from really three uh extraordinary experts a whole lot of information to absorb. Uh but there may be a point time where you say to yourself, "Okay, well, what happens next if we're interested in moving forward with any of these options?" So, you have the feasibility study, which is required by statute. And by the way, when you look at it, you'll see a lot of information about your community that you already know. The content of the report is dictated by statute and code. So, there's a lot of verbiage in there that's not there

087as filler. It's there because it's required by the Department of Education as a matter of law. So, if you wanted to move forward, um you'd have to pick one of the two options because what would be presented in this petition to the Commissioner of Education is a request for authorization to sever the relationship with Mountain Lakes and to enter into a relationship with either of the other two districts. Um surely the other district and and they knew this from participating in the study they would have to be involved in this process, but the petition to the Commissioner requests authorization for the change. Mountain Lakes has an opportunity to oppose it. They can do their own expert report if they want. It is inconceivable to me, saying this publicly, inconceivable to me that they could come

088up with a better team of experts. We've done a lot of these for a long time. I really don't care who they hire. We have a great deal of comfort with what we have presented to you. In any event, once the petition is filed and any opposition is filed, the Department of Education forwards it to the Office of Administrative Law and a hearing is conducted that looks a lot like a trial. Administrative Law judges, of course, are not judges in the judicial sense because they're in the executive branch. They're hearing officers collecting information for the benefit of the Commissioner of Education. If you were to attend or to participate, it looks like a non-jury trial except the courtrooms are painfully small and unadorned. Um when the process is done, that is when the the hearing

089takes place, one or more of you will be allowed to bring up actual witnesses. It will be for the most part a battle of the experts. Um the attorneys submit written statements. They don't get deliver the fiery closings that you're used to from television. They bring to the benefit of the court dense, thick legal analysis of the facts, really focusing on the substantial negative impacts that we just laid out. The administrative law judge issues what looks like a decision except it's not a decision. It's recommended findings of fact and conclusions of law for the benefit of the Commissioner of Education. Each party has an opportunity to advocate that the Commissioner accept, reject, or modify what the administrative law judge has submitted and then the Commissioner of Education makes a decision where the Commissioner of Education

090should apply the test of whether or not there is a substantial negative educational, financial, or demographic impact. Any one of those, if there's a substantial negative impact, would prevent you from moving forward. The statute, however, is really written to be permissive. That is to say, it should move forward unless there are one of those things. The opportunity is to give folks a a chance to enter into a an arrangement that other community feels will be beneficial. And as you heard Steve describe, and this is as a matter of course, it certainly will be what we advocate. We would be foolish to do anything else. The Department of Education doesn't want to see students uprooted. So, if a student has started at Mountain Lakes High School and you bring this petition and you are successful, um

091those students will remain there. And so, your graduating eighth graders would move to the new high school, but um the graduating ninth, 10th, 11th graders would remain in Mountain Lakes as 10th, 11th, and 12th graders and that would be repeated [clears throat] until you had no more had no more students there. So, that transition is benefiting the students, of course, and not disrupting them, but it also, as Steve pointed out, eases in over a 4-year period pending financial implications as far as the Mountain Lakes Board of Education is concerned, giving them plenty of opportunity to deal with the implications of your departure. So, um naturally, as I said, there's a lot for you to absorb. So, while we will give you an opportunity to ask any questions you have now, I will say two things.

092Number one, to the extent you have questions, many of them will come not now, but after you've had an opportunity to let this sit with you, study the report, and maybe even talk to people in the community. The second thing I will say, as far as questions are concerned, to the extent you ask a question that would be answered truthfully only if I were to discuss something involving litigation strategy, I will dodge your question and not answer it because it's not my client's best interest to answer that question publicly. Doesn't mean I'll never answer it. I'm just not going to answer it publicly. Uh but again, um I'll I'll invite, as I did the the sort of the Grammy's view where we all come up here in case you have any questions, but this is

093certainly not your last chance to answer uh to have us answer questions. It's just the first. So, is there anything you want us to um to address by way of questions here up On the demographic study, on that graph where it had the different um sort of the population because then it showed it sort of declining. It It was hard to see the colors. Is there any one district that might be slightly growing more than another in there? It was just kind of hard to see. Uh Sorry. I couldn't tell which one was which. They all look the same. What's that? Your birth rates? Regarding I'm sorry. It was the my bad. It was the birth rates. Thank you. I don't think Boonton was in that graph. Okay. The question was about the birth rates

094in any one I didn't know if anyone was growing or falling more than another. It's kind of hard to see. I I can appreciate the the stack bars, but the colors Can you point out which one was which district? Boonton, I should say. Yeah, here. Yeah. Yeah, we have Boonton Boonton. Oh. Boonton. Boonton Township's on the bottom. It's on the bottom. Okay, Boonton. Are you Yeah, that's that's right. >> [laughter] >> Uh Kinnelon in the middle. >> Middle. Mountain Lakes on top. Okay. And it's cumulative. So, is there anyone that uh you know, Mountain Lakes certainly has uh I think Boonton Boonton Mountain Lakes and Boonton >> Township seem to be growing more over time. Well, they kind of all have a positive trend line with a lot of variation. What what I think is

095the most important thing to take out of it is what you can't see which is the fertility rate is declining. Looking at fertility analysis for lots of different areas, we see the same thing happening over millennial women aging out of their childbearing ages and births continuing When do you think when do you think that leveled off? Like where compared to the the previous years does it level off sometimes you know around like a 10th and 11th and 19th levels or does it continue to fall further? I think you're going to continue to see a fall at least through 2030. Okay. Because that's as the youngest millennial women move towards aging out. If you look at those fertility curve, it starts in late teen years very very low. 20 to 24 still low. 25 29 a

096little higher. 30 to 34 35 to 39 40 to 44 still high and then it drops off. And so when you have that large cohort of women moving into those higher fertility rates, that's where these most higher numbers are coming from. And as they age out If you Google millennial generation, you'll find lots of different definitions. I go from about 1980 through the change of century 20 years. So the oldest women are now 45 aging out. Youngest of women are 25. They're just coming into that peak. So another 5 10 years they'll be taking on Got you. Thank you. >> [clears throat] >> There's one other thing that you said too is >> [cough and laughter] >> This community is a seasoned pocket of population, right? There's a probably older community members that children have

097already gone through the system so Oh, yeah. Is that what I heard you say that? You didn't That's it. The median The average I might be in the season. The median age is what? 48? He's 48 40 something? What? I'm sorry. The median age of Boonton Township 48. 48 something. Yeah. So the population is older. Children out of the school so maybe replaced by That's that's the unknown how that replacement is going to to be effective. Um Again, I'll go with my personal experience in upstate New York. You've got lots of beautiful wonderful communities that have an aging population and the question is what's attracting younger population >> [clears throat] >> That [snorts] that's an unknown and that's where without getting too negative communities need to focus on how they can do that rejuvenation if

098they want to have a competitive economy. Wait, it's just We actually talked about this just before the meeting. It's a statistical fact that New Jersey has a slow population growth to the extent it has any growth at all it's been through immigration not because of the in the birth rate. So it's the the birth rate's continuing to decline and immigration declining the future population of New Jersey may have um for the first time in probably a lifetime see decline. So it's it's it's very difficult to predict given the state of the world right now other than it is easy to predict this as Bob said in the declining birth rate. I can get into I can get into too much so stop me if you want to. No, thank you. Okay, thank you. That was

099one of my questions is whether there was some methodology to predict what kind of community attracts family with children so I hear that you're saying there's not really a method for that. for predicting that. >> [clears throat] >> Well Go ahead. Without purporting to have a crystal ball, yeah, I mean population changes by births, deaths, migration. And you can look at historical trends in each of those and make some assumptions about the future. So I do a lot of that I'll give you regional projections. So yes, you can get a pretty good sense because unlike very short-term cyclical economic factors, demographic factors are structural. The age structures baby boomers, millennials, you know, they aren't going to disappear in in a year. So you can get a better idea. The second question I had was just

100about the potential phase out. Would that tuition rate just be the default the last degree of online tuition rate for each of those five years or four years of phase out? Yes. That's almost always the case but it certainly is the case in the analysis you saw. We're we're not expecting anything different. There could be something different but we would not expect it. Any other questions? I I'm thinking I know the answer but it's based the the enrollment data itself if the high school is hosting a Morris County School of Technology Academy I think Morris Knolls does, Mountain Lakes used to. So like I think Morris Knolls has the Performing Arts Academy and Morris and Mountain Lakes used to have a Biotech Academy. Those students are included in the enrollment numbers that we see. But

101is that is that how it works in New Jersey school enrollment numbers and Did you Did the school in a school scenario is that included in the demographic analysis or just the capacity analysis? It's part of the enrollment I guess the enrollment numbers mainly the enrollment numbers. So that's the projections Yes, because the projections are done by individual school and then you each of the scenarios you back out Township students out to see the impact. And that's how the racial changes are are done too. So it did include the academy students. That was your Yeah, because that's unique I don't know if it's in all of our districts because these academies are in Morris County but but I know at Morris Knolls you have all these different academies at at different high schools. So Morris

102Knolls or I know has the Performing Arts Academy. Students come in there. So those when we see the enrollment numbers that you used Yeah, I'm banking on that. Yeah, are they are those students in those numbers I guess is the biggest question or is that how it works in the enrollment numbers that are reported? I'm getting I'm getting the enrollment numbers from the district the student ID files and frankly I don't I don't know 100% I I do know we get it by grade level so to the extent that those academy students are included in those grade statistics, I would say yes but I I don't see individual enrollment for academy. Yeah. But I can go back and Just curious I thought I would assume so because I would assume they have Where would they

103be? I believe that's the case. That's right. I mean is that a question for Tom like if you ask the superintendent would you report your students? Yeah, if you had a a Vo-Tech school in your school you would report those students in your own school. Yeah. So for again for for the demographic analysis and the capacity analysis as it relates to your question. And I guess a piggyback question is is the Mountain Lakes today special education program for the hearing impaired? Those students are also included or are those students also included in the enrollment numbers that you have for Mountain Lakes The special ed on grade level are included. Yes. And is there a year old special hearing impaired school that they have? Well, that's set So if they're at the Lake Drive School that's

104the school. No, if they're educated at the high school, yes. So cuz I know some of those students are at Share, That's correct. So if so to go back to Bob's point if they if if they spend enough time at the high school that Mountain Lakes counts them as part of the enrollment then the answer is yes. If they are both there let's say only for specials and they're otherwise educated Lake Drive, the answer would be no. Anything else? Okay. Well, thank you for your kind attention. I hope you enjoyed the evening and we look forward to having you again. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good night. Thank you. Great night. Thank you. Yeah. I have a few What we could What you could do is bring him in now and is there anything

105new? You want to discuss or that was just the agenda? We We can do We can read you the order and start with the news out of course and then I don't know I'm sorry the um uh facilities report. Yeah. And then we can have an open discussion. Anybody care to answer any questions? Okay. So we are going to go into agenda item number 12, the facilities committee report, please. Yes. Um, the committee most recently met on Monday evening. And we talked about the motions on tonight's agenda. I think the motions are a lot of discussion back and forth. Questions on those motions and just potential work around and questions in general. Um, and then we talked a bit about some of the educational priorities and needs for the district. I think we had a

106really good robust conversation with the committee around those priorities. And I thought it might be a good opportunity now just to kind of have an open discussion with our architect in the hearing place tonight about what we feel as a as a board is important for our students in the district. We had a really great conversation our last meeting and we've had some meetings since then. Mr. Patino, I'll ask you to add any information that you would like to I know um, discuss before we can vote. Okay. First and foremost, thank you very much for joining us. And I'd like to open up the floor since we are talking about the facilities meeting and the main conversation was infrastructure. I think we should open it up and talk about infrastructure in and of itself. If

107there's any questions, as like we've had some questions in committees uh, well, subcommittees and things of that nature where others don't have the benefit of those hearing those answers and maybe getting some guidance from our architect, now is the time to do it. So, I'd like to open up the floor to everybody to have some conversations or bring up some questions about some infrastructure items. And then right at that point, we'll have a discussion about what our collective vision is in terms of the building educational needs and how can that be brought to light by our architect so he has some specific guidance. Sorry, I have a question. We talked about this in in one of our meetings, but do you have a walk from the last? Uh, the last referendum to what what infrastructure

108to infrastructure, you know, what that looks like from cost expense standpoint. So, we've been working on that and we're close to finalizing it. So, we will send that to you. And what we tried to do is to take the original referendum, remove things that are not being considered as part of this referendum, identify the proposed referendum that's been discussed and give you a comparison of the delta. Some things went down, some things went up. The reason they were not being include additional scope because after revisiting this years later, we've taken a slightly different approach. Changes in the market, some were pretty significant as it relates to, for example, the cost of a unit ventilator has gone up, but it's flattened out now, but that did impact us. So, we do have that. We're wrapping it

109up. We're trying to make sure it's as easily understandable and that the numbers match up as best they can. Going back 3 years to find some information on how we got to that point is not the easiest thing to do, but the direct answer is we have that almost done. We will send it to through John and Ken to distribute to you so that you can see. And then obviously, we can answer any questions associated with that and there are things that within that project list, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. And then there are some other things that we've had active dialogue in individual committee meetings that you'll have to decide. And the decision is they're eligible for 34 cents on the dollar, but is it something that you

110want to include in this package because of the financial ramifications to the projects and the community. Does that answer your question? It does. But may Is it okay if I ask a follow-up or am I going to monopolize the time? Um, so then I I we talked about this and I I kind of get lost along the way. We want to submit the infrastructure application to get started and and that's what we want to discuss tonight. Can we change that and modify that after you send those on? If we decide we want to pull something from a project from that list, can we then do that? Because that's what I wanted discuss here. Yeah, so so the answer is you can, but we would prefer not to wait a month to get that guidance because

111at the end of the day, there are two pieces to this decision, right? At least in my opinion. One is is the scope something you support in including and accomplishing or is it not something I support because of a financial component and we're just trying to manage the financial component. So, I think if we can agree on a timeline, the goal of getting that approval tonight to start the process is we have to apply to the DOE for a project number. That takes a little time. And we just want to get this ball rolling while you analyze the educational pieces that we've been talking about for months as well. So, the answer is yes. Um, and one of the things we talked about in one of the committee meetings is that if you want to

112break this out into more than two applications, cuz right now the proposal is the educational piece part and nurse so that you don't pay an additional review fee which is substantial and the other stuff, we can break some of those other stuff out. I'm going to suggest that based on my involvement in the various meetings, I know the two or three that I think are actively being discussed. So, we can put those towards the end of incorporating them into the application while we work on the other pieces. We're going to revisit these numbers again because we want we understand that this is not a small decision. So, we want to revisit the numbers again to make sure we're being as accurate as possible while leveraging the 34% and trying to communicate to the community that

113this is a budget. It doesn't mean this is what it's going to cost you. And historically, when we develop a budget, our goal and and the the results are typically that our budget falls within the middle of the bids. We get bids lower, we get some bids higher, but in the aggregate of all the projects, we'll be able to deliver it. So, people look at the numbers say, "How can it cost that much?" And that's not necessarily what it's going to cost. It's what we have to budget to be conservative because once approved, you can't spend more than what you have. Once we get a preliminary eligible cost letter from the state, that's what they're going to give you in the way of aid or the bid, whichever is lower. So, we're trying to balance

114these things without making it look as though it can't be supported, but to be able to create a budget. So, that was a long winded answer to yes, but we should put a timeline on it because I know that part of the discussion in public is that you get to hear each other where in the committees, there are clearly differences of opinion and we kind of keep going in full circle whether we should or whether we should. Well, the reason why I asked that is not so much yes, there are new things on the infrastructure side, but there are old items that were on the original referendum that are on here, but they've been modified. So, we're seeing costs go up and that's why the walk is so important is I I want to see

115what if we added in scope versus what is just an increase in the market for unit ventilators. But one of the things we're talking about is if we're going to be unit ventilators in the hallway, we didn't originally have that. Yeah, I want to know what's the difference is. Do we do we need that? So, I'm asking that question like as for to be cost conscious, you know, amongst the board. That was the scope change. So, I'm trying to figure that out as we look apples to apples. I'll do a follow-up. I think very tactically it's I I want I want the walk cuz I don't know I don't know what I don't know yet. So, that's one. Two, I think it's helpful like you said not a month. So, do you need a timeline

116from us? Like so, we'll give you assuming we pass the finance motion to get started, you need hey, I need a final project list from you guys 2 weeks from Yeah, I would say that I'm going to jump ahead because I know that there was discussion about some follow-up meetings with the goal of focusing the conversation or pivoting to the educational piece in at the the March meeting. So, I would say that if we get this information to you by the end of the week, is it possible to have what we need from you by that next meeting that we collectively have so that we can bring closure to the infrastructure discussions and then focus on the educational piece. When the next meeting is at the our next board meeting? Well, I think there might

117be another meeting that we're going to try. I don't know if that's been discussed first. No, no, I mean another special meeting to talk about another special meeting, another special meeting to potentially walk through the educational When the next board meeting is March 18th. 18th. We have 3 weeks. Yeah, a special board meeting or special just other meeting ad hoc in the meantime. Special board meeting. Special board meeting. Yeah, I missed the I didn't hear that this morning. So, so I would say if we get this to you by the end of the week and within 2 weeks, Okay. we could get that guidance. Maybe it aligns with the potential for a special meeting to talk about the other stuff so we can start that meeting with hey Greg, you know, we we had a

118chance to talk about it in committee. We'll talk about it collectively and here are the tweaks we want to make to the application, or we're still not fully decided, so can we just break these projects out into a separate application, cuz that'll buy you another 3 to 6 months until we hear back from the state, right? So, you could submit that application separately, so that if you decide to move it forward, we already have the PEC. If you want to pull those projects, it's just as easy as not adding them to what you present to the board. >> more though to apply them separately? Look, every application has a tremendous amount of paperwork associated with it, so it's a nominal amount. I think it's maybe five-ish thousand dollars. Um so, it's not the end of

119the world if you want that flexibility to determine, okay, we need more time to digest this because even though we've been talking about it for months, we're trying to be as cost-conscious as we can. So, it's basically 2 weeks to finalize, or we pay $5,000 for 3 to 6 months of optionality, like flexibility. Is that how what I'm hearing? Yeah, basically. Okay. I mean, that's I don't I don't know the answer is, but at least that we know like we got to figure it out. If they give us the walk by this Friday, if as a board we can figure out within 2 weeks, or we're looking at separating it and paying maybe 5 or 6 thousand dollars for a different application to then say we have another 6 months to figure out. So, when

120would the board meet as a board to discuss >> That's the inventory report. That would be the big question. Unless it unless it comes back clear enough that we can figure it out. Probably not. Yeah, that's what you get the time, right? So, That's I think that's where the the conversation came in with the special meeting. So, we could So, yes. So, we could do that, or we could just do the three. What do you mean, three? The three applications to buy. >> We just We just assume we're going to do it separately. We're going to eat the five thou, but then it gives us time to >> and then we don't feel so rushed. And I don't think that works. Honestly, I would rather take the requisite time as a board to figure it

121out. Yeah, for sure. I I don't want to add a level of complication, >> [laughter] >> but we would need direction on this is the definite list, and this is the maybe list, because we want to make sure they're in their own applications. So, what So, Parker, Let's just talk about So, for example, the abatement outside of the individual projects that require abatement. That was something that was brought on board very late last time because it was felt that, listen, we're almost there. The building is almost empty with um the the environmental pieces, and there are reasons to do that. You get 34 cents on the dollar, but it is an expense, right? Because that went up, and we didn't create that budget. Your environmental consultant created the budget. So, if that's one project that

122we want to break out, no problem. But, if we want to break that one out, and maybe one or two others, so now we have the two non-educational applications, but if you decide that one of these three you want to throw back in here, that's difficult to do because the numbers in the application to the DOE get melded together. You have the benefit of seeing our individual budgets by project, but when we submit a DOE application, everything gets merged together. So, anything and everything associated with that project, general conditions, all those projects get merged into a general conditions number. All the electric, whether it's for a project A, B, or C, get merged together in the application. So, it is difficult to pull and push from an individual application for flexibility, but if you're reasonably

123confident that it's going to be all or nothing, then breaking out a third application is easy to do, but we would keep that decision. Yeah. Yeah. Can I ask something? I'm sorry. I'm now I feel like I'm not I'll be very specific cuz we're talking specific projects, all right? Abatement might be one. I I'm cuz I want to know about the walk by the unit ventilators. Like, and if you were to put in 55 versus I don't know how many are in the whole versus 40, what is that difference? And if we were like if you were just to submit to the DOE, I want to do unit ventilators. I just don't know how many I want to do right now. So, >> And I don't know how much that is. Yeah, so look, I

124can give you a general sense that the unit ventilators, just to use the proper terminology so that we're all aligned. There are two basic systems, three. Three basic systems that we're talking about in the school. The boiler is the common plant that feeds everything. There haven't been really too much discussion. The boiler is identified as a need, and look, and there is something that we recommended as a best practice and to give you um backup and some redundancy is you have two very large boilers. We originally expected to replace them with two, but if one goes down, you're relying on one to to provide 50%. So, we recommended a third modular boiler, so that if one ever went down, you have 66% redundancy to keep feeding the school. By way of example, that extra boiler

125is somewhere in the range of $400,000. Putting things in perspective. The unit ventilators alone, the existing unit ventilators, which are each each space, those from a budgeting perspective, we were budgeting those 3 4 years ago at 70 75,000. The market has moved that needle to 110 115,000. That's significant. >> Yeah. Right? And that's awful hot, right? It We have to have hot hallways, but cool classrooms. I'm just using it as an example. Maybe that's the So, so, but let me just get back to that. So, that's not something that we controlled in a change of scope. That was what we're seeing in the market, and it's a budget. The the the the third part of that mechanical system is rooftop units. We are replacing as part of this the rooftop units, the gyms, etc. We

126recommended based on what we've seen over years is to put a rooftop unit into the hallway, so that the building is climate controlled more regularly. It was never designed that way, nor any school in New Jersey, because it was felt like it was an interior hallway, but what we were experiencing through climate change, through walls that are insulated back to the 40s, 50s, and 60s is that moisture was building up, condensation from that change of classroom being now temperature controlled because before it wasn't, and the hallways not, condensation. And I think, John, correct me if I'm wrong, you've experienced that, too, where hallways that are travertine get slippery. We've had district employees comp claims. Do you need to do it? No. Could you do it later? Yes. As a professional, we feel obligated to make

127that recommendation to you to provide the best solution. What was that? Hallway RTU. I don't think that's necessary. Yeah, so, you know, Yeah. but But, I think that walk will help us. Yeah, and and that's what you'll see in there. We'll try to We'll show you the delta, Yeah. and then we'll We're going to round off numbers. Like, we're not The math won't work exactly. So, you'll have something where we went up a million dollars, it'll be plus or minus $980,000, and you know, somewhere in the contingencies. I'd also like to point out that part of this, because some of these costs have gone up, proportionally the contingencies have gone up. So, these are monies that you're not yet using, but there's a best practice for us. The DOE requires them, and you're getting 34

128cents on the dollar for them. So, there are a lot of these pieces that are not market-driven, per se, but just proportionally changed. Yeah. We'll get that to you by the end of the week. You'll be able to make those decisions, and I think within 2 weeks, if you could give us direction either to break out more applications, or eliminate some of the pieces, we can get a jump start on pulling those things together, and then you can finalize that decision. You know, ideally, I think there was talks about a special meeting just so that we could have a conversation about the educational pieces that we're talking about, so that at the following board meeting, more action can be taken. So, I have a question for the the board. What are the question mark projects?

129>> I I was just going to make a suggestion. Can we do a It's only 12 of them on my sheet. If we do a page turn and go one by one, and then see if anybody has questions. I think before you do that, I attempt you know, in advance of getting the the mapping would would help with that discussion, too, but in advance of getting the mapping, in case it's not there, um is there like the abatement cost that's in the current proposal, was that allocated to specific projects the last time instead of broken out like Yeah, so, that's exactly right. So, what happened was in the original project that we planned for, we didn't know we were going to do abatement unrelated to construction projects. So, when we looked at the art room,

130for example, we knew there had to be abatement there. So, that was included in that budget. Then, and I can't remember how we got it. I think John was an advocate to say, "Look, we're so close. We're going to get 34 cents on the dollar, so we got the environmental consultant, and we looked at everything else with a number." This time, what we did was the environmental consultant got involved earlier because it was a carryover, and he didn't break them out by project for us. So, what we did was that number went up partially because we took it out from some of the other projects. That's why the art room cost went down a little bit. That's why the nurse's office went down a little bit. So, there's a little bit of a push and

131pull here. That's why that number went up partially, but it also went up because his new numbers were higher, which I'm guessing abatement went up. But, that's an absolute you're seeing. Yeah, that that would help understand it then. And then the question, too, um the last time something was labeled HVAC replacement, and this time we have unit ventilator replacement and RTU replacement. Would Is Is it If I was trying to map that in in case I don't understand it when you give us that report, is HVAC replacement adding the RTU replacement and unit ventilator replacements together? >> HVAC speaks to heating, ventilation, and air conditioning. Yep. The unit ventilator and the RTUs, we tried to get a little more granular because you were asking these questions. Unit ventilator is a heating, ventilation, and air conditioning

132component. A rooftop unit is a heating, ventilation, and air conditioning component. So, we just used slightly different terminology to get to the same goal because we're we can look at those numbers now a little bit more granularly for your Q&A. >> So, they were broken out before they were under each. >> So, if I add the two together, you know, that RTU and unit ventilators together, I compare I would be comparing that to the one HVAC number in the past. >> That is correct. Okay. That's what I was That is correct. That's correct. And then our walk where we need central air in your vinyl center and window unit. Yeah, I just want to make sure I'm looking at, you know, getting my ducks in a row. Yeah. So, the [clears throat] breakout we're going

133to give you merge them together so you can We tried to get the lines coming across even though they don't exactly line up like the abatement for example. And you'll see some references that this budget was carried over from here up to here for an apples to apples comparison. Yeah. Well, thank you. That that helps greatly. In case in case the other one wasn't clear when we get it, that'll help greatly. Thanks. Can we go through a walk through of the list? >> Yeah. Cuz again, I I I honestly don't know if the helps without the wall. But, Well, but yeah, >> Yeah, I think it does cuz as an example when we get to I I mean, we can jump to this at 11:00 right now. I've already got unit ventilator replacements. >> Yeah.

134I know we should start at one, but he said, "I don't know how much it Jeff's question would it helps out with the wall." I think it does cuz I have a question about the unit ventilator replacement. So, I put that on the question for this because I think we changed scope and I'd like to clarify about that scope. So, for me as a board member, that's not a slam dunk that we just want to do that. So, that's a question mark for me. So, I would put that over there until I understand what changed and then we should discuss. Just 11? No, I want to go through all of them, but my point to Jeff was Yeah, I think there's value in saying this is the questionable pile. This is the we want to

135do it pile. And then I think we had art and nurse in its own category if I'm not mistaken, right? So, for art and nurse, why don't we skip those and say Yeah, they're one and one and 12 on the list, but I think they're They're they're not large costs and right now I'm being I'm trying to be cost conscious while balancing school needs. All right. So, let's just go down the list from there and we'll we'll say yes or abatement. >> I have a question. I don't know if we need to do all of the abatement. Three. I do have a question about the nurse's office. I'm sorry. Just I'll go ahead. It says ADA renovation. Isn't that Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990? That's not an option, right? Well, we don't have it

136now. It's one of those where you It's grandfathered. Okay. It's grandfathered. Um But, so I mean, well, I I yeah, I didn't mean to just pass over. I think as we look at applications, I think nurse and art room were going to be on their own application. >> So, if we go through this list and we put the questionable ones in their own bucket and of course the yeses, that'll help then with your Yeah, cuz we'll be able to move on to And then when we come back in two weeks or a week with our questions. Might I suggest if we're going quickly through them, you know, when we're putting yeses or questions, if we get through them and we have questions, we ask questions like abatement, we can ask ask some questions now that

137while you're here. Yeah, let's do it. All right. No, yes, we have to know what it all means. I'm including what you Exactly. I I want to know if like if you were to not do it cuz you're going to have to touch certain things no matter what. If you were going to save $100,000, then I like we should do it. Like that's Yeah, that's Say no abatement, we're still going to have to go to If Yeah, if you say no abatement, then other costs are going to be more expensive than the other ones, right? That's right. 100% right. Do we know and that's where the wall comes in where if you come back and you tell me, "Hey, you guys are saving 50 $50 by taking it out cuz you're going to touch everything

138that's in there." It's not insignificant. It's hundreds of thousands. Yeah. But, it's going to be a little more difficult for us to break out because the environmental consultant that gave us that gave it to us in a lump number. We had a drawing which you've have seen the scope document. It highlights all the different areas. And so, we can do it. Don't get me wrong. We'll have to kind of reverse engineer it, but But, I think this is like horseshoes and grenades. If you tell me it's like like between 4 600,000, I think I don't know. That's my opinion. Like Well, my understanding of the abatement was yes, it's embedded it was embedded in other projects and it has moved. There's also a standalone abatement. That's what I'm questioning. I mean, I'm being very clear

139on that. And it's not insignificant is my understanding. So, I I am definitely questioning the abatement. By way of example, the storage room that is off of Ken's office has asbestos floor tile. We're not doing any construction in there. And that was something actually that this asbestos consultant, I think, had missed that. So, we found it. We added it back in. That would be an example of something being removed if you want to do it. There are then the things that get put back in because they're part of the construction project. Then there are other things that John has made a point to bring to everyone's attention that I just want to be conscious about. If we're doing lighting and the new ceiling in the hall is for example, there are areas of asbestos up

140there that if we're taking out unless we deem those construction related, they're not really being touched by the construction, but they could be negatively impacted by a worker who's not paying attention. And so, you know, from a conservative perspective, that's been John's position which I support because the last thing you need, which I've had happen once in 38 years, is OSHA comes walking on a job site, there's dust everywhere, and even though our drawings were very clear and the environmental consultant said, you know, you're talking about laborers who maybe aren't paying attention to things, and [snorts] it turned out that they shut the school down. Now, this is in the summer, so kids weren't in school, but it delayed the construction schedule. John, you want to I was just going to jump in because, you

141know, basically you have floor tiles and ceiling tiles that are in those projects. Getting rid of the And it's a it's a small scope that's in the hallways, but again, what I brought up was when you have people pulling wires for fire alarms or HVAC, all that, you disrupt an elbow that's up there, you're shutting the building down. And the environmental people So, so and that it's also costed out over 20-year period. I mean, you're you're taking a loan for 20 years, so the cost gets spread. But, that's important is that the scope of the work is small, but the damage that could happen if it has to be abated in emergencies. Understood. So, that's just this other abatement that won't be touched at all. That I Look, in a perfect world, I would love

142to do it all. And I would love to do all this. And I want to start this off with I am well aware we get 34 cents on the dollar and we spread it over 20 years on every single one of them. But, I think the taxpayer has questions into these. So, I'm trying to play devil's advocate and push and see what can we do to make this as cost cost conscious as possible. But, the point is we don't even know right now what you say >> Yes. Well, we had a rough idea I think from last time, but it was a few hundred thousand, but it's worth the discussion, I think. >> Yeah, on that line, I will do our best to back out of the environmental consultant's number to give you order of

143magnitude, but it's it's it's not $50. Like it's it's Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, Jeff, but you know, it's going to be a couple hundred thousand dollars more. Yeah. So, so the question is yes, you're going to save it, but you're also going to get your 34 cents on the dollar. I don't need to tell you all that. You guys know that. We'll break it out for you. You'll have it by the end of the week. Hopefully, it'll make some sense and then, you know, we can take it back. And I'll I'll go ahead. Is it is it possible or doable or helpful if if it was if the report was able to identify certain areas that would be touched as opposed to these are included in the project. So, for example, you just mentioned the

144storage space in my office, what, 10 square feet? You know, like if we if we're able to demonstrate that this is just another 100 square feet out of a project of a thousand or 10,000 square feet of of asbestos that could possibly be disrupted, then it would be like, "Oh, well, if it's only this little amount would this cost, then we can compare not only the cost of the project or the abatement, but how much it is." Ceiling tiles, piping, floor tiles. Is that not possible? This is a little outside my area of expertise because we relied on the environmental consultant. He lumped things together. What I can tell you is that there is an economy of scale that's going to be realized as well because if we do all the abatement, there's going to

145be a window of time, let's just say the first summer after the successful referendum, where they're potentially going to come in here and abate everything. Guys are on site. They're setting up their decontamination areas. They're doing whatever they need to do. As opposed to okay, if we're bidding the art room and the nurse's together, but the electric is separate, which would make sense because you don't want a general contractor involved in electrical upgrade because he'll put on his 10% or 5% or whatever the number is. Now, you have each contractor responsible for their own abatement work. It it it's a little bit more challenging to manage and the unit costs will also vary a little bit because if the GC for the art room and the nurse's office has to bring in his abatement guy,

146they're going to be there for two days. Then you have the electrical contractor that has to bring it in for the hallway abatement, he's going to be there. Are they here together? Are they do There are logistics that have to be managed. So, I don't know that we can get that granular to give you accurate information if we Well, what if we talk 10 square feet here or 20 square foot there, you know, it what's that savings look like? I think we can give you an order of magnitude that says these are project related. We'll have to go back into some other budget. And these are the areas that are technically not in our construction zone. And you leave them >> Then Oh, then I misunderstood your question and then yes, that that I can

147do. Okay. And that I think we can do. Does anyone know what the potential cost is over 30 years for leaving asbestos unabated? I have a question about the abatement. I know that prior scope documents had abatement broken out like we were saying. Um if we were to take all of those numbers together from the you know the abatement numbers from each of those projects specific projects from the last time, add them all up. Um are there any other abatement numbers added to this the well the environmental consultant did he add any additional areas beyond those abatement areas that were considered last time, I guess? If I understand your question correctly Got it. Great. Great. Does this include abatement that he didn't contemplate the first time? Yeah. The answer is yes. The one example we

148gave you which we discovered cuz he didn't have it highlighted on his plan was the flooring in that little storage room. So that's that's an example. And what is there cuz might give an I I might give a hint for some something. It may give us some magnitude if we look at you know took those numbers from the last time. Yeah. But we're going to give you two numbers out of the abatement. Yeah. Based on the list you move forward with this is the abatement we have to carry and this is the abatement that you'll be left with for future consideration cuz we're not doing any construction now. What is breaching abatement? So breaching is the ventilation from the boiler into the chimney and all the associated components. >> But is but is soon as

149best as that what that is? Because the That's built into the boiler not in the abatement. >> Because he again I can't speak to his logic. He We know the boiler a project being considered and those older boilers inside and some of the breaching we believe have asbestos. For some reason he didn't include them in the budget so So my point is there's abatement outside of So I think this is my point on that. I I hear you. I understand that now. My point is I think there's more stand-alone abatement than there is project related cuz in some of the projects it's included in the project. So So I'm I'm not saying that there isn't still some in the abatement. I get it but I still think there's more than we think that is stand-alone

150would be my assumption. Can I phrase it a different way? Sure. The amount of abatement outside of the construction project is not insignificant. >> Yes. It it it's a significant dollar amount when any person [clears throat] would say hundreds of thousands of dollars is Yeah. is a significant expense. That's a house Yeah. for many people. The only uh exception in the breakout is that boiler. So I don't want to mislead. There are no more numbers embedded into the individual projects. Those are rolled into the abatement number. What we did was anything that we caught and I don't want to say caught. Anything that he didn't identify for whatever reason but we knew about we put it separately because we didn't know how else to to present it. >> saw breaching abatement and boiler and Yeah.

151And and in our report to you it says separate from the reference above because of that reason. So But we'll get you the number. Abatement's question. >> [laughter] >> I still think that's my point. And chances are the boiler replacement numbers are pulling out a whole boiler and all that stuff anyway. Is is it likely that that would be covered anyway if you >> For this one we had a separate line item. And and the answer is these are budgets. Better to go to the state with a budget, get your 34 cents on the dollar and then not need it and give it back because you can't use it for anything else than to be short. Right? And so our goal is always for our budget to be in the middle of bids. And for

152the most part you should see that when we start getting bids. In some cases you'll see based on a lack of interest or whatever else that the numbers will be higher but other projects that are very interest will be lower and in the aggregate will we're going to meet our goals. But again these are not costs. These are budgets and and it's difficult for some people in the community to understand that. And I think like my point is I'm not saying we wouldn't do it. I think it just warrants a discussion. I want to walk I want to know the number. Boiler sorry I have a question on the boiler. You said three earlier there's only two in this assessment. That quantity is wrong. The dollar amount is right. Okay. Okay. Right. So we originally

153had an in-kind two for two. So we ended up when we did the budgeting to give you that redundancy. There's an example where if we're if you're okay going back with two for two it'll work. The system will work without a problem. There is a savings to be realized. No I get it. We Sorry we need to have a discussion. I appreciate that. My Here's Sorry I see that question. Shut up. So do we So you're saying we don't need three? Do we need three? My question is why this I didn't have any questions on that until you mentioned today there was three. Now I have questions. Do we need three? Like today if one goes down do we deal with 50%? Has that ever happened and is that a big deal to add a

154$700,000 third boiler to our current system? It's brand new. Yeah. We will want to answer how we how we operate them. Yes. We do it on week lines. We'll run one for a week and give it a rest and then we'll run the other for a week. So it doesn't really happen that often. No I'm saying you run one boiler only you never run two boilers at any time. You always have a backup in the school with one boiler. You do. It's 100% but if you if a boiler goes down and the second one goes down so we always have a backup. Yeah. But if you have a redundant system I I think it's I I think it's a fair point. But the newer ones are more efficient. Yeah they're more they're more efficient. You're

155going to have parts for it. Like right now one goes down we're in trouble. We got it. It's hard to get it repaired all days. You're going to have a brand new two brand new ones. You'll run them in lag because you don't want to run both. One goes down and I'm pretty sure we'll get somebody in here like within two days to fix it. And it's a new system. Right. And it should run 30 years for the next referendum. Yeah. So So I appreciate the three. That's a good point. What people say we would never use the third one. So what I'm hearing is you guys want three boilers. Is that a question of quality? We can What did you mean when you said the cost was right but the quantity was wrong? It

156should say three. Yeah in the If you look at the we have quantities there. Great. I Yeah I'm with you. What did you mean? What did I mean? So we did two it's 800,000. Three Oh I see. 1.2. So we did the math correctly that for some reason that column didn't get updated into the system. It's a system but then I'm assuming there's ancillary costs around. But whether I do two boilers or three boilers the breaching all the ancillary stuff has to be done. So it's a $400,000 savings. Correct. I think you said seven earlier. Is it four? Sorry my No 700 was the art to use in the hallway. Oh okay my bad. Okay fine. Let's step back for a second and John you might not have the answer for this this second. But

157in terms of the abatement now of the asbestos I'm sorry the asbestos now what does it cost us annually? I know you have to go kind of through analysis of it every year. Correct? Yeah. No but basically think every school if you have an asbestos in a building every district is required to have an asbestos point management point which we do. And in that are inspections so you have six months you have three months you have six months you have three year inspections. So we spend several thousand a year. But you know again you always run the risk anytime somebody's pulling wires. I have to sit and have to talk to them about that. If they do breach it or if I use the term breach but if they do damage it then now we

158have to get an environmental consultant to do it. So you're dealing with the what ifs a lot of times. You know a piece of furniture is moved and a and a floor tile breaks. Certain things that we can remove as a district but when you have more tiles breaking then you have to get them abated because you're not authorized without a asbestos. When's the last time you had >> [laughter] >> asbestos abatement issue? Have you ever? So if they if they I have had another district but here we've had we've had inspections. We we have all the labels up there. We never had a outside We never had damage. Yeah like the example of the damage. Yeah. I mean a lot of unknowns. So I did a locker project years ago in another district. We

159pulled out the locker. We had no asbestos. We had no asbestos plan. They pulled the lockers out. What did they find? They found pipes. So we shut the whole school down. So there there are chances of that but again this project I'm saying or with the project they're going to be in those ceilings. They're going to be in every in the ceiling above the tiles in the hallway is only that much and it's loaded with pipes with Oh yeah I'm not saying this number is going to go to zero. It's going to be something. Yeah it's going to So in those numbers I think are were included in that's what that's what was added. There's 500,000 that's from other stuff. I don't know the numbers but I'm saying Yeah but I think that's where the

160numbers would help. Yeah I think it's a question. Can we survive without it? Yeah we'll we'll have a plan but again they're going to be I know that I think the the biggest piece to the puzzle and I'm not going to get the room numbers right. But the kindergarten pre-K and the three classrooms across the way all have a ceiling tile. We're not in those classrooms doing any renovation work. But that's part of the abatement all that is being proposed to be abated. So I would argue that um that's one example of something completely outside the scope of the construction. That's being a million dollars. And and then and then we'll ask the they'll ask the asbestos the environmental consultant look give us an idea what the value of that work is because if John

161has to replace a light there or for example if we're going to do the LED that I know we're not up to that on the list yet but now you've got contractors working and now it is in the construction area. So we'll get you the number. Another thing I was thinking is every classroom is going to have a lighting issue. Correct. And they're going to pull a fixture down from a ceiling and they're going to put up a new fixture. They're going to drill into pull the tile and so that was sort of the issue. They're inspecting everything every classroom. So don't do lights and don't do Yeah. Let's get it scanned. It's all all here with boilers, right? We all agree we need upgrade boilers. That's not an issue. It's two or three. All

162right, it's two or three is the question. They're they're old. Oh, other I don't know. The system's old, but they Let me ask. We can keep we can conversation quick. Does anybody have a question on burglar? I For me, too, materiality matters. Yeah, like to me, I'm looking at the I'm looking at the big numbers. Like I'm looking at unit ventilators. Roof leak repair stuff has to happen, so I don't even want to talk about that one. So, like the electric >> But look, can I just on the roof there was a talk about doing one of these numbers. That's going to reduce this by 600,000-ish? Yeah, roof. For roof. Regardless, the roof has to I don't care what you like. I want you to call service upgrade. You got to do it. I I

163don't have Yeah. It's all lighting lighting stuff. But I think that's part of also the the old HVAC, everything is tied to the electric electrical. We're going to do it. I think you don't I think you Again, just to put your minds at ease, we have a $175,000 allowance because what we've been experiencing lately is that the utility companies are coming and charging us to do certain work rather than being appreciative that the electric bill's going to go up because you have all this more power, you have more computers, all that stuff. So, again, we're trying to cover our bases because we've had a couple of circumstances where they charge us anything. So, there is still contingency planning in there that we hopefully get back. Fire alarm replacement, I I think we all agree. It's

164health and safety. I wouldn't 100%. We need that and the cost is de minimis compared to everything else. Lower gym windows. Why were those brought into the project this time? Is there any failure to them or Well, there's cracked ones. They're they're just not efficient. There's a lot of light coming in there that you know, even the the theater part, you can't darken that room. But but they're really there's single point single pane glass. But they're not efficient and it was a small part of the project, right? Compared to $250,000. How much? 219. It wouldn't bring it to compliance. Minus 34%. But if it comes in the bid, you know, might come in lower, but you're going to actually get money for it. Whatever. I think we'll be all right. Let's just say yes for

165now and when we see the breakdown if we have additional questions. There's no breakdown on that one cuz it was new to the scope. Okay. There was nothing to compare it to. So, the next one's a big one. We had a really good conversation about this, right? On lighting and Greg, you help us understand what another option to putting it into the referendum would be. Sure. So, um the lighting is one of the things that has a return on investment pretty quickly when you upgrade from your existing light systems to LEDs. Many districts are doing it. LED better light and more energy efficient. There is something called an ESIP, an energy savings improvement program. And what that does is if you um if you were to draw a draw a pie chart and in that

166pie chart you had two or three sections that were your utility costs. John carries a line item for the utility expenditures. Water, gas, electric. Electric probably makes up a pretty significant amount. What the ESIP does, it's a Board of Public Utilities program. It allows the district to go through a different process whereby you identify the replacement of the lights, what that savings will be, and then pay for the improvements through the savings. What that means is you are authorized to borrow money without voter approval through an ESIP. You can You have to follow the Board of Public Utilities processes. We design it the same way, you low bid it the same way, but the funding source allows you to borrow the money for up to the life expectancy of equipment, so 20 20 years or

167so, maybe even 25. And what John needs to do is John cannot reduce his utility budget because this isn't free money. It's just reallocating where you're spending the money. So, instead of paying it to the utility company, you're going to send it back or excuse me, pay the debt down for the lights or the the money that you borrowed for it and ultimately, after you pay them off, you have the benefit of the additional savings. But the So, the advantage is what I just explained. The downside is that you don't get 34 cents on the dollar. So, arguably, if you do it through a referendum, which I would recommend to be the first choice, not only are you getting 34 cents on the dollar, but you're still getting those same energy savings without jumping through

168all the BPU hoops that you'll see on the electric bill side. And you're right. I But I kind of look at it a different way. This is more to the board than we could ask the taxpayer for it. Yes, we get 34 cents on the dollar and we can pay for it, but here at no additional cost to the taxpayer. John's shooting me daggers as he should. There is As the budget guy, no additional cost to the taxpayer, we could do all the lights over. So, saving money cuz it's just going into We're not asking the taxpayer for any money. The other thing it does, it it ties your hands as far as it freezes funds in and they'll say say your projections come in you know, they're a little bit higher, you don't use

169as much energy for whatever reason. Especially with the The unknown is now with the savings on electricity with air conditioning. You don't know, you can't project. I mean, they could do it by the book, but if your energy costs are are different, you're locking those funds up. You just can't move them. And you're paying off your project, that's all you're basically using that for. Yeah, it's and It's a little more complicated. Look, it's a little more complicated, but Chris's [clears throat] point is very valid, right? You're you're you're making an argument on how to accomplish this without going to the taxpayer. Please keep in mind that when you look at the benchmarking that will be done cuz there has to be a model created to present to the BPU, their calculations are financial advisers, they

170they don't want to take this lightly. That's based on a benchmark that you create today. And what I tell people is once you add air conditioning into a building, it's going to be used more than people who didn't want to use the space in the summer because they were sweltering. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, all the groups are going to say, "Oh, this is great." So, what it's going to do is it's going to keep your electric bill behind where it would have been, but it still may go up beyond what's being paid for, but that would be the case no matter what. You still have to allocate more money in that budget to accommodate you know, increased usage. It's no different than if the cleaning people leave the lights on when they clean the entire

171hallway rather than turning them off, that electric bill's on unnecessarily for a couple of hours. But But it's So, is it is it a yes question, maybe? Sorry. I don't I'm not understanding the concept. I mean, it's $1.6 million cost. There's no way you use that much power. Well, it's the difference in what you save with the new electric bill, you pay to the who who would be the state to get to this. For 20 years, you are. Yeah. What do you I mean, that's like like a hundred grand a year. We're seeing $100,000 a year in power costs. Maybe it's a little lower. John, what is what is your electric bill today? A year? Do you know? I don't know. I have to look. We're probably budgeting $70,000 a year or something like that.

172I don't know. I'm just pulling a number out of I don't have it in front of me. The lighting is the most The lighting is always part of an ESIP. It has to be because it's always what makes the math work. There are circumstances where you have a bigger district with a million dollars a year electric bill where they get to do some additional projects, small motors here, and there are other stuff that you can do, but lighting generally drives this, no question. At the end of the day, you may not be able to do all the lighting because the math has to work. We can try to look at that, you know, quickly just to see where we end up. Um but, you know, certainly the math has to work, otherwise the Board of

173Public Utilities won't let you do it. So, like if if everybody thinks I'm just throwing out another option. If we don't think it's a good option, we don't have to do it, but I was just >> Let's put it on the question bucket for now. I I'd rather just get it done, to be honest. Well, and the prices only went up significantly since the last referendum, like crazy. I'm sorry, say that again. Based on I don't know, some numbers. I did look up the prices on that one up like Yeah, so so, um on the lighting piece, so one of the things that John asked us for last year when we were doing the lighting in the hallways and stuff was to replace the ceiling. That didn't get into our budget last year. I don't

174know why that was on us. Um so, we have that now. That's about $250,000. And I think what we did this year was we went around and counted every light fixture to make sure that we had it covered. And so, I think that's part of what you'll see is the delta as well because we ended up with a lot more light fixtures than we actually thought. But also one of the concepts with changing to LEDs everywhere, like for example, as Lenny brought up you brought up the classrooms. Right now, every light is on in every hallway and in the classrooms, but with the new system, it's more Not only is it more energy efficient, all those lights would be off. As soon as you walk in the hallway, they go on. And it it will

175The new code requirement You know, I don't I can't calculate that. There's a sensor now that is built into the design because the code requires code changes require that energy efficiency to be brought in. So, now there are sensors that will be in each classroom. They're not motion sensors because, you know, a kid's taking a test or if you've ever been into a bathroom where there's a motion sensor and you're in the stall and all of a sudden the lights go out on you and you have to kind of dance. These are occupancy sensors which use different things than motion so that it realizes when someone's in it, but if someone leaves, the light will automatically go out. So, that's part of this program as well because it's now a code requirement. And that's a

176culture you have to change but you can often do it if you or stand and we'll walk out of an office for 10 15 minutes, get caught up in a conversation, the lights are I mean that that's all part of the replacement. So, questions. Okay. I'll be on the question list at least until we get a little bit more information. Uh nine I think is a yes but it might go down. Yeah, I agree. And again, I know you haven't discussed or voted on this yet, but should we right now reduce that by $600,000 and take that scope out if if if there's general support because John Strong believes you can't even if this is a successful referendum, he doesn't think it's going to last another summer. I I I agree. I think that makes

177sense that we all agree. Sorry guys, we're we're having side conversations. You get a point. The question was Should we reduce the budget by $600,000? doesn't cuz we're almost regardless of referendum, we still got the ball rolling. I think the answer is assuming we're going to do the roof. Well, I'm going to come back to you in March. I was just telling you up front come back to you in March so that's going to be part of the 2016 budget. How much roughly? 600? 600,000. Yeah, we we talked about it. 600,000. The number the number for the hallway to do the plans and everything so do that. That's a yes. We all agree we have to get >> It's a yes and less. And then and then you're left with Somebody asked me the question

178today, but you're left with very small piece. >> Correct. Plus over planning is a little piece up by the kindergarten wing that the roofs at this point are not concerning me. Yep. But eventually you're going to The next two years 2010 and 2011 are the big ones. These are the ones that are like It's like almost 50% of the These two alone are the 50% of the cost or whatever it is. So, that's That's where I And we've already asked our questions. Are there any additional questions? So, you'll see this I'll submit it to you and you'll see them. But I'll I'll tell you anything What is just the unit The rooftop units are How many and what was the And I think there's no question that the rooftop units we're going to replace. The

179question is that there is a plus or minus a $700,000 commitment for the to conditioning the hallway. It requires rooftop units and ductwork. You can always do it later, but again, our we feel obligated to based on our experiences as of late and all these other things, we're going to put it out there. You guys can make that decision. And then the biggest thing which you cannot control but what we've seen is that the unit price of a unit ventilator has gone up 50 to 60%. It's leveling out now, but what we were budgeting in the way of 70 to 75,000 per unit ventilator, we're budgeting at 115 now. And we shared the benchmarking with you so we know where the bids are coming in. That's out of our control, right? That's 34 units. We

180did find seven additional unit ventilators. Some of the classrooms had two. So, there's a couple hundred thousand dollars that got added as a result to make sure all unit ventilators are replaced, but the big ticket item that is within our control is about $700,000 which is that hallway. You can always do it later, but again, we offered it because there's 34 cents on the dollar. That tells me a lot right there, right? If there's 41 units and it's $40,000 more, that's 1.6 million in inflation. Which to me like if you go to the and part of this is narrating it to the public is that look, the scope didn't change, the price literally has changed by 1.6. So, you're moving from here to here just on price. >> Yeah, and and I don't recall and

181it is leveling out a little bit because there was a point where, you know, you had to wait for an electrical system or unit ventilator for 12 months, right? So, those things have leveled off a little bit, but some of the some of the manufacturers and companies are now no reason to reduce our price. Everyone's grown accustomed to this and that's what we're going to do. I'd be curious if if any of those The roofers have done it to prioritize Well, no, I'm actually I am actually interested if some of those manufacturers are subject to tariffs cuz I know there was just a Supreme For sure some are. Yeah. I'm I'm wondering if we should look and see if that the tariff issue could be re-quoted because I know there was just a Supreme Court

182ruling on that. You're not going to know until the bids come out. You're not going to know until your bids are in. >> I think someone there had suggested it and I thought it was a great solution. We're actually going to incorporate it into every one of our presentations moving forward, but to show you the benchmarking of our projects so that people can say square foot like versus Yeah, yeah, like okay, you know, we did 40 unit ventilators here, they were 106,000 each. We're budgeting 115. That was the average. Did we get some better price? Yeah, you got a competitive contractor, there's no rhyme or reason to their bids, but you'll have it in the list, but to Jeff's point, that's just a that's what we're seeing in 1.6 million dollars. But but there's still,

183you know, there's still a a $700,000 number that you could do later or or two months I got a question. Why do you some rooms have two? And do they still but do they still need two? So, probably and again, we haven't heard any complaints about the system is old and difficult to maintain. But for example, um I think it was the kindergarten Yeah, they both they the size of the room they have both have two, but I I I tell you we kept those things banded in for years. >> Because they are two because of the size. Yeah, the the two are the size and I think yes, so So, if you were to go into the kindergarten room, what you'll notice is they used to be two separate classrooms. Right, that's why they

184Right. So, there used to be one in each So, when we counted the classroom originally, okay, there's one per classroom. When we went back to double check all our numbers this time cuz it was three years later, we said, "Oh, even though it's one classroom." Is that the only one? No, so there's one, two, the three kindergartens all on that side have three. There are The media center has two. Oh, the media center has two. >> [clears throat] >> That side and this side. And they're outside the wall. One, two, three, four, five. So, the total number five. No, there are two more somewhere. Yeah, there's one in the corridor in the newer wing. Yeah, there are two more. There were seven more that we found. You have a total of 41. 34 and then

185we found seven more based on not just number of classrooms but miscellaneous. So, so now we're very comfortable that every unit ventilator is accounted for and replaced. So, The scope is it from last time the scope is possible scope has increased to include the hallway. No, that's the RTU unit, not the unit ventilator. Correct. RTU So, then compared to the last referendum, the only change besides the cost of the unit is there's seven seven more unit ventilators we have to replace. How many is There are there are two changes. The seven more that we found and the um the increase in the unit price cost. Okay. So, the seven. >> [clears throat] >> So, that's like a 2.1 million dollar difference. That's about right. So, just from the from the from Seven more for $700,000

186plus the difference like 1.6 or like 2.1 2.2 difference just on unit ventilators. But then I don't know if you're I'm going to jump here, but I'm just summarizing like the couple projects that we have that we have questions on like and I'm just doing rough I'm just just adding them up. That's my point. I was just about to make. $390. There's $3 million of possible questions there and I'll I'll list them. And they're controversial but I'll list them. Lights, I I the 1.6, abatement I just put point three. 300,000. Hallway the hallways And then the boiler at 400,000. And you add that up. What about the roof? Did you add that in? That would be in the 600,000. I I did it cuz that's just going to come out and roll the base. I

187think you're right. You're right that would be it. So, that'd be 3.6 million dollars we could reduce. We're getting down to 15 or 16. in theory. I know the lights is a little controversial. I get it. It's not the Okay, so here's what I think would happen now. She will get us this by the week. Yes, it's almost done. I just want to make sure we don't check the room. Our next facilities meeting is on March 9th. What if we met for a special meeting on the 11th? Still a week before that cut off of March 18th to do a final yes or no on these Well, we'll we'll talk about educational [clears throat] portion of this. You're giving me a weird look. No, I'm not weirded out. I was just going to have my

188special meeting. I I don't know if I did I emailed the finance committee so it was going to be in my report. So, we got a regular meeting on the 18th. And then if another special meeting and then possible because of what was going to be in my report, they changed the budget submission date to the county. So, I was saying to the committee that we can either, you know, keep the 18th meeting or we might have [clears throat] to have a special one just to approve the budget. Or I don't know. We I have to look at how it's going to fall because they they pushed back the uh budget submission from the 19th which was the day after our board meeting which it had to be at the county office to now the

18927th because the state aid is going to be released released later. >> If our if our meeting got pushed back a little bit, Greg, from the 18th to later in March, would that mess you up? We will make it work. Okay. So, keep So, if we keep the 18th, you know, and again, I have to see how it's going to work with approving the budget. But he said if we go a little later, you make it work. >> Yeah, so we do like the next week. I have a general sense of where you are. >> Yeah. We'll make it work for you. And then we could still have the special one on the 11th. Yeah, cuz otherwise you have you'd have three main at the same time. >> [clears throat] >> I think we should

190go with that and get somebody else that we think about it cuz there's some of these I have questions that some of them I want to think of. So that gives us it gives everybody a week and a half to really look at it and the committee will meet in Okay. I just want to make a comment. I support the asbestos abatement. It's a known carcinogen. We have our children in the building. I don't think it's a prudent thing to kick the can down the road for 25 years of risk. The whole The word abatement literally suggests removing risk and I just want to say that I think that that's important and it's not something that I would try to save money on. That's absolutely a fair assessment and I'm not trying to I look

191like the villain on camera and I get it as the guy that wants to >> It's just questions. What my What my my point was if I using Ken's office or the right outside Ken's office as an example, not in not in the construction not in harm's way of children, asbestos if untouched is not a problem. I don't know anybody even knew that it was there until we did this assessment, right? And now all of a sudden it needs to be removed. The question is do we need to do that as opposed to the other areas? That's my only question. Okay, we'll talk more on the 11th. >> [laughter] >> No trouble there, no. Okay, so committee I agree I kind of agree also that I I would support you know getting rid of it

192all while you can. I I I fully I fully understand that opinion. My idea There's there's there's one tier that for me like I already feel the RTU and the boiler Yeah. lights and the little bit like if we can figure out I'm not completely sure like I don't know if the math works out. >> What it says like the way and honestly I feel like it's like the light scope from our last one and um I feel like it's the 34 cents on the dollar for the magnitude of the project and then also [clears throat] it's tied with the abatement. The second we start doing the lights I think that number gets much bigger which I think Then the then the number comes down to just leave everything in cuz you're just dealing with

193nominal numbers at that point. The big The big ticket items to be honest would be the lights and the the hallway and the boilers at that point. >> Yeah, well the hallway and boiler is actually two one for one. Yeah. And that because some of it look you can't run like that. I know we're trying to match it to our last one three years ago. Inflation is up 20%. So like I don't I I care but even like as a like a resident I have to be objective and say it can't be the same cost. It just can't. If it was 15 then three years now it's not 15. It just It cannot be. It's just not possible. >> Can I just I just want to remind everyone this is a budget. We have to

194be somewhat conservative. I don't have a crystal ball. Our goal is to get it to be less. Right? But if I if I if I go too tight on our budget and we get one unforeseen condition you know it's an issue. So that might be just to my point that might be something you say you know what Greg, let's make the $5,000 investment, take the lighting and debate and put it in a separate application. Let us digest that a little bit more because if you're going to do the lighting we're going to do the ceiling and if you're going to do the ceiling John's point is a valid one. You're going to have laborers pulling wires in there. Let's just knock the rest of it out cuz at that point there's not much left. And

195and then that's a separate application. The RTU and the boiler, there's a million one plus the 600,000 for the roof. That brings it down to million six. We can look at some of these numbers and maybe try to tighten them up a little bit while still protecting your interest and and get that you know $2 million number with all the arguments you're making. And that's why I put the whole thing together because I I like know we're trying to match it but it's just we can't like So I I I understand all those numbers and all that as a finance person but and I'm speaking I really hope every I hope we get like a thousand views on this video and I I I don't think we will and I hope people see it. I

196I agree with you and if costs have to go up over time and they have gone up and this even like for like it is going to go up. However, the voter is going to see a number. They don't necessarily understand it's a budget. They think it's the cost and I want to make sure people understand yeah it is budget. We are doing what we can to bring it down but I think they see the number and I I want them to know that they're going to get it to that to be as lean as possible. I'm sure we do. To tell you the truth like I mean the the last one was also a budget to be fair. Like it's The methodology is is apples to apples. So the 15 versus the it's apples

197to apples. I'm saying like there's a there's going to be a 15 20% increase even if we kept the scope exact the same. Like exactly the same. And so like I think I know people can go up but it's just it's just as a That's a lot. Yeah. Actually compare your own construction costs. Like at home if you did something three years ago it's 20% more now. I guarantee you. I just have one thing to say about infrastructure projects cuz I've gone through some big ones. So as as a as taxpayers and as you know projects when when either taxes change because of a project so they don't care about the boilers, they don't care about all these things they can't see. The roof they just know that it's not leaking anymore. The lighting there's

198nothing else in there other than lighting that you walk in the building and say wow this is where my money went. As if you were renovating an art room you know in there for an art room with a package you see things that are tangible. They don't see the electrical. >> exciting project. They don't see the lighting that you upgraded this year. Well we'll talk about the other exciting So I just wanted to throw that Is that Not being hot in this building is exciting. Well the other thing I've having having dealt with like home home and school associations PTOs like they're looking for money to to donate. You're not going to donate on copy paper cuz you don't see that. But if you see a water fountain or something donated there there's where your

199efforts to your fundraising went to. It's tangible. Yeah. So just you know just keep it in the back of your mind that when you walk in a building that you just spent money on what changed? My goal isn't to just cut this for the sake of cutting it. It's to do whatever possible to get it passed. I think that's really what I'm looking at and I hope the the the public sees that these things are necessary. Things are end of life and I'm doing whatever we can to bring that cost down and make it more palatable for the voters so that they vote on these really necessary things. That's why I want to say that out loud. And it's it's also important that they see you doing that here yes in a room. Yep. As

200nine people. And that's why I'm questioning abatement. Do I want to do abatement? Yes, I want to get rid of everything in here but I want to make sure the cost is as low as possible for the taxpayers so they agree A few points I want to touch on some of my notes. Um I want to ask uh answer Jeff's question before about where where have I seen I didn't get a chance to answer you as far as asbestos is concerned. And uh from the educational standpoint anytime that I've seen any problems with asbestos it's been non-existent cuz there's already been a plan in place to remove it because of the potential cost financially and otherwise. So they take a proactive approach to it. So I haven't had any problems with disturbance and I also

201know people on the abatement side and that's been the same philosophy. That's the pattern that I've been seeing. So I agree that you know if it's not disturbed there's no problem but the potential is there. So when you're doing projects it could be disturbed. Uh the next thing is I know that we're in agreement so far as and that's also for public consumption so people know my position on that. Uh I know we're on agreement as far as the fire and burglar alarm again for public consumption that it's necessary because I've been situations and positions where they tried to marry or overlay old systems with new systems and it causes problems. So in my conversations of over over a decade with the specialists who have come in trying to help us up with our alarm

202systems and burglar systems uh smoke alarms and things of that nature they always come back and say they should have just ripped all the other old stuff out and put new stuff because when you overlay that this is a big problem. Wires everywhere and it becomes a mess. So I appreciate the board's you know position in identifying the need as far as safety and security uh that that is a priority. Uh and the next part of this uh we decided that Greg will send over the items uh by Friday, correct? Correct. And you said John or me, let's make that John and then we'll have a single source Okay. from John so we know that we're all on the same page. And so we share it out then everyone be also committee but everyone else?

203I will. Okay. Just don't start the discussion but I it'll go out to everybody. Yeah. John will share it. Okay. And then we said within two weeks uh we'll reconvene. What's that date? So we're going to have we're committee meeting on the 9th at 5:00. March 9th and then the 11th for a special meeting. Okay. John 7:30 I guess. That's the special meeting. When is the um That's the 11th. If I could just ask a question, when are we being trained? What day was that? The 18th at 6:00 p.m. 6:00 p.m. That's the 18th. If you want to move that we have to see if it's still available. Yeah, if we move it Well Well you're going to have the 18th and then I'm sure that because of the lateness of the state aid release

204we're going to have to have a meeting after that as well to approve the budget. So there'll be three meetings in March. Technically had two anyway. No well you That's why I always scheduled it on the 18th so that we can do it cuz it's it was due the next day in the mechanical office. Now they kicked it. It looks like that's going to be when we're going to approve the budget. Yeah, if you want I can get in touch with Paul and see if he can move the training. I think that's not as paramount as this. We don't really have like a preferred date to do it. What? For the budget approval. No, I just I have to I have to see the dates of the budget address. I know they kicked that down.

205We'll have to see that exact date. Usually the governor will have 2 days after that budget meeting to release state aid. And then if something dramatic happens and I have to rework everything, then I can do it in time to do that before submission. So, but by the 18th, I would have had all that information. And then presented a budget that would be approved to go down the following day. >> estimate would be delayed? It's like a I think it's a week delay. So, like the 25th? I'll have more definitive I ask some questions to the appropriate people tomorrow. I'll probably have a better answer of when those when those dates will be. And I can get back to you and let you know what And then what Yeah, hold off on doing that until

206Uh, based on the discussing the educational part and additional stuff that we have to discuss, um, do you think you know, if we I need to go and re-evaluate those things? >> [clears throat] >> The educational Yeah, you were you were going to have to talk about the >> Yeah. So, I assume there's more board discussion that has to happen probably sometime in the future, so if we have enough time if you can connect those keep that ball rolling is a good word for Right, the same he was going to work with us community council the 318. Um, we're just talking about we need to discuss the educational component. Okay. Still. Beginning that tonight, but No, we were just saying you were flexible. If the 18th got canceled and we did it the next week,

207the 25th, that could have been the meeting to discuss the education Is that what you're saying the education So, so just to be clear, my understanding was you have information as a follow-up to our last public meeting for the board to look at. We were going to have a special meeting so that it could be discussed publicly with the intent that whatever that next meeting is, whether it's the 18th or the 25th, that you'll have a second round of conversations about it and some guidance on which way we want to go on the educational side of things. Is that my understanding correct? How's everybody with that timeline? I The meeting, I'm sorry. What would be one or two minutes late? >> on 311. Right? Is that We're still having So, we're all here right now.

208I felt it was most appropriate for us to at least discuss what is common. For example, if we discuss the minimum of what what I was thinking about in terms of the educational programming. Mhm. Um, and then some people start bringing up certain things about, you know, let's say the music room. I think we all need to have a discussion about what we're all going to be thinking about in terms of what what's going to drive his goal to create something for us to review. So, what is it that I value all the things obviously and beyond. I gave you my minimum standard, but I think we also need to have that conversation right now in front of Greg about what your priorities are. The arts, STEM, both, large instructional space, something that's a useful

209for an auditorium. That may be too big. I think we need to have a a conversation about that so that gives Greg a common language and a common vision that he can put on paper. I think we were over here for the educational project. Yeah, I think or or whatever it was. Well, you had brought up I think last time what the minimum and what that cost would be. Yeah, or Uh, is it still considered I'm able to talk about that in open? Public or no? The documents that Ken sent earlier? I mean, basically if you change the footprint of the school, that's where we jump. see that that big increase in in price cuz it affects the parking, it affects everything else. And if we try to do something a little bit more uh,

210working within the constraints of the school, finding some spaces, and that's where we see a different plan, but there's a trade-off of what goes in it. Yep. Are we are we having that conversation now? Are we We can wait We can have the conversation about any particular drawing, but I think our conversation right now is going to identify the things that we discussed at our meeting with Greg about the space that could be used, the maximum numbers maximums number of square feet. What that could look like, what could that entail. We all know that that could be way [clears throat] too expensive, but what what direction do we want to go? Do you want to take part of that? Do you want to take an area in the back that will meet the minimum requirements

211because that that doesn't seem like it's satisfying to many people here. So, I think we could start having the discussion about what it could possibly look like without referencing [clears throat] any specific So, basically what are our like like we just went down that list, what would our goals be from an educational educational needs So, can I understand it from Ken's perspective? I know we're not talking about the though why that was identified the way it was cuz it was mostly SGI and one classroom. Okay. And that was from one regular for SGI and a multi-purpose >> and a multi-purpose. What was the rationale for that? To give something to compare. This is what I recollection that was his minimum. That's what I want to I want to go to That's what was explained to

212me. The minimum goal was to get rid of shared spaces and to get the one small group instruction where kids are in there all the time into a windowed space. That was the minimum educational program. >> That that was the question that was posed to me last time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, so that drawing was representative of that. >> Correct. Okay. Which doesn't infringe on the footprint of the school. Yeah. So, the cost would be Well, Yeah, the this the footprint increases a little bit, but it doesn't trigger parking and all that other stuff. Yeah, significant. But does that satisfy Ken? And your that was your main impetus was getting kids out of shared classrooms, out of windowless areas. That would serve that purpose. Yeah, that's good. Question that I have that that scenario, if

213we were to add four SGI classrooms, a larger classroom, does that take people out of the closet offices? No. Uh, okay, so you would still have like a Mrs. Hayes in her Correct. >> Would she be doing her instruction in the SGI room or in what? They would still be in the same >> They would be occupied by this Okay, correct. Again, the minimum standard would be those classroom spaces, not office spaces, and the as I listed as a priority. The students that were in the a windowless space all day long, that was my top priority. So, extract that, put it somewhere else. That goes back to storage. Um, and then uh, teacher on a cart, two general teachers are sharing one space. We needed a one gen ed classroom for that. These two classrooms

214down here, extract one teacher from there, another teacher from there, now we need two instructional small group instructional spaces. So, I took that, you know, with the other space and that's how I got that. Yeah. But if we really want to move forward with something that And that's again, that's minimum. You don't even have to disturb the parking lot area for that. That can be managed. But then according to the conversations that were happening in this in our committees and and some of the board members, it would just seem like it was not meeting an educational goal in their mind in terms of bringing our education program to the next level. I would agree with that, Ken. And I just want to say like I I am totally understand that many board members have a

215self-consciousness about about talking about taxes or the cost of this. And I just want to say that I feel responsibility as a board member to say publicly that I'm looking for the best interests of families that are in the community now that could be here from pre-K all the way through eighth grade, and also for people that may be here 10 years from now, people that are on that 20 to 30-year time frame. And I think the meet the need right now is the status quo is that the minimum proposal for the three small group instruction spaces multi-purpose room does not meet the need of taking a music band room out of a literal storage closet. So, you know, we we talk about career education, scientific education, arts education. So, STEM is actually what we're

216living in now, robotics, AI, alternative energies, um, all these frontiers of science. And I I think it's not a serious conversation in my mind to think about not having appropriate instructional space where we actually [clears throat] have the space for special education teachers to be doing small group instruction, where we have space for our science teachers, our music teachers, our performing arts teachers to do that. I think that the 10,000 square foot proposal is actually completely necessary and it's not a ridiculous ask. So, I'm willing to say that. I think that I'm not afraid of saying that that's money well spent. That's an investment in our community and our school for the future. So, that's something that I fully do support and I think that that I would support that option and if people disagree

217with that, that's fine, but I just want to put that out there. And And one other thing, we can we can go to um, to to extremes. So, we can have no addition and maybe remain status quo, which I think is unacceptable to everybody. Then we have our minimum standard. If I look on that continuum all the way to this end where I can say not only do we need all these things, we need another gymnasium and we need another auditorium and we need a true working cafeteria, which is so far out of reach and so unnecessary. We won't even have the space to build that stuff, right? So, we have to come somewhere around here where we all are in in agreement that we are going to satisfy the minimal numbers of spaces that

218we need, but we also want to move forward in a direction where we get something like a true band or music room and or STEM room, for example. Something that we all can say, "This is acceptable for moving our educational program. It's right by the community. It's right by the teachers. And it's right by the students. And it's something that we feel all feel comfortable with for the entire community moving forward. And that's something that can Greg can sink his teeth into and say, "I want to do that." And I will I will say I also back that because I would be afraid if we did the minimal that non-negotiables list that you know, we'll have regret in like 2 years. Like, okay, they have some classrooms, but like, what's it moving or what is

219it helping us with? Yes, it's getting some people out of shared classroom spaces. But long-term, we would be like outgrowing that a couple of years down the road. Mhm. So, I agree with everything everybody said and I second what Francis just said. But what I would say is that that's why I was being such a pain on the infra side. To your point, John, those are the use the term the non-sexy projects, the non-exciting projects. To the extent we can get that cost down, I'd rather spend more money on what is helping your children. So, yeah, I I agree. That's why I'm trying to push on that side to free up more money, I guess. I know the concern I had and also we have not made any decisions on a one question or two

220questions or which way we're going to if we're going to divide it out or not. But with the infrastructure, if we kept that as one and moved with the um kind of the needs uh with that second question, I wasn't sure if there was enough there as if we were going to break it apart into a second question. I wasn't sure if that with the SGIs and the classroom, if that was enough. I I I just felt like if we were going to put it out to public and let them decide, maybe we needed to have more to offer. Uh and and maybe maybe you know, maybe moving music out of the closet. Which gets tricky and and once we start changing it that way, it affects the parking lot the parking lot and all

221that. Yeah. It triggers. It's like your house, right? Yep. That's what I think. One thing triggers the next. And I think you know, it's it's very Yeah, I mean, it's pretty real as what you said about the music for the children. Um music and stem needs to be part of the school. But I you know, I think we'd all really regret it if we didn't if we had nothing, you know? And I think um Mhm. I know we probably We really need to you know, we just need to get the balance right. And I don't I don't know if it's one going to outweigh the other, but Well, I think that's that I think you're exactly right. You hit the nail on the head. We want to make sure we find a good balance where

222we all feel very comfortable. We don't we we don't want to propose something uh too big or too small. Too big, we want to have the balance just right. And and have a good rationale for it. And I think that this conversation in public as a whole, I think demonstrates our our not only our willingness, but our need to do that. So, is there anything innovative that you can do as a number four? No pressure. The minimum that was identified, we presented some concepts so that the board can look at and then have a discussion publicly about it. And it focuses on um not disrupting the parking lot and avoiding the cost to replace parking spaces. If you were almost any other school district, you would have more property, but you just have a very

223unique circumstance, which results in limitations because of your wetlands, your riparian zones, these environmental considerations. So, I would go so far as to say the solution we came up with is pretty innovative that we presented publicly to maximize 10,000 square foot without any environmental negative impact, without impacting the recreational softball um um Yeah. the rec um softball field. No, but Project fits Senior moment. the magnet What do they do during the day when they have Recess. Recess. Winner. Winner. Gym class. Gym Gym class. You have a nice large grass area that's not disrupted. So, we tried to find these minimum and the maximum. Once you go beyond the minimum, there's there's limited room back there. We have a major soil line uh soil line that comes underneath there that we'd have to go and investigate

224because the further we push out, the more it may disrupt that. Anything beyond that, expanding the footprint, you're limited. There used to be a trailer over here, not really a an ideal location. The garden's there now. Anything we do on the extension of the of the one end of the building, 7th and 8th grade wing, which would be a conducive way just to double load a corridor, would have a negative impact on the softball field. That's something you'd have to deal with um and talk to the the, you know, or make a decision whether that softball field will get relocated. Because we're parking over here, we are able to leverage the DEP's general rules and permit by rules and things like that. Once we start going beyond 6,000 square feet into the grass area, other

225triggers are made. So, I would offer to you that we've come up with some innovative solutions. The minimum, the development of the 10,000 square foot space and all that encompasses it that, you know, you guys need to vet. Clearly, there are differences of opinion, which is fine. Once we go beyond the minimum, there's no other place to put it. You automatically trigger coming forward. And then the question is, well, if you're going to do 1,000 square feet, do you do three? If you're going to do three, do you do five? If you're going to do five and have to affect the parking, which is not an insignificant amount that we presented last time in the master plan, you know, the parking is not an insignificant dollar amount. And so, I wish I had a better

226answer for you. I wish I had the magic bullet, but I think there are good solutions under the limitations. And it's it's really, in my opinion, looking at it from the outside, it's a function of do you present the ideal educational vision and let the voters decide on the finances, or do you reel it back in before you present, you know, that to the voters and make the decision yourselves that we don't even want to present, you know, the the best the best, but I think the exercise you did looking at the minimum was a great exercise because I think what it's showing us is by no fault of anyone in this room, we just don't have a lot of options. So, then do we make a trade-off because of that? And that's where I

227think we're hit. I know how I feel, but We're almost at a half point of rebuilding a whole school when we're at that 10,000 square foot. If you look around at comps, you can build a school for $80 million. Mhm. Yeah, just to be clear, this is not costing you $80 million. This is I know. Look, the square the square foot pricing is the square foot pricing. We showed benchmarking benchmarking. So, at the end of the day, you know, you can look at if you build a 50,000 square foot elementary school or a 10,000 square foot addition, generally speaking, and and the unit pricing will come down a little bit when you have a 50,000 square foot new building. There are a little bit of economies of scale there, but it's not coming down to,

228you know, decade or two decade ago pricing of two or 300,000 square foot. That's just not happening. Does it Given the limitations of the space, the the the scenario of an addition of 10,000 square feet does just in concept alone, does that address educational needs? I mean, again, it's limited. There's not much more you can do past that. Does it accomplish the educational goal? Yeah, it it accomplished the goals that were identified. Get kids out of windowless spaces, get rid of the shared spaces, and address the spaces that were converted over time as a necessity. And music room has been talked about a lot. The my understanding from looking at the records and from talking to those that had some knowledge of the building, the current music room used to be the storage room for

229the gym. Correct. So, if that's correct, that's another example of converting a storage room into an educational space. And so, we're reversing all of those things by taking advantage of the 10,000 square foot and bringing it back to a an appropriate standard by the by the Department of Education's definitions. Can I ask one question about ADA? What triggers that you have to bring other things up to compliance? Like, we're talking about the the nurse's office and making the laboratory for the toilet room ADA compliant. But what triggers when you have they have to do it? Yeah. So, in New Jersey, we are bound by the uniform construction code, which is an administrative code that has a barrier-free section. And because our buildings are so old, it was created decades ago so that people wouldn't have

230to comply with a new building code. Meaning, the International Building Code, if you were building a new school today, you comply with the International Building Code. But because these are grandfathered many times, they're no no less safe than they were yesterday. So, the answer to your question is it's um there is a menu under the rehabilitation code. A repair, a renovation, an alteration, these all have different definitions, an addition, and they all have different requirements that kick you back and forth between the codes and from the uniform construction codes perspective, part of it is triggered by a financial investment. So, when you're investing X dollars, they want X percent towards barrier towards improving barrier free compliance. They don't necessarily tell you where you have to spend it, but it's a function of how much you're

231spending. Once your facility is completely up to code, then there's no more allocation because you're up to code. But, every time you make an improvement, the expectations from the code is that a percentage of that investment goes towards compliance. Now, by way of example, if we did an addition and we were going to do a new door with lever hardware like you have there, that counts towards ADA compliance. Or we could go in and change knobs to levers to make that compliant. So, we pick and choose what we want. It seems reasonable that in the nurse's office where you have sick children. So, it's it's I mean, most people think about barrier free compliance with someone in a wheelchair, but there are people that are hard of hearing, there are people that have visual needs

232and in the case of a nurse's office, it's not unlikely that the nurse or someone has to accompany a sick child into the bathroom and you need that room for a second person. So, even though we meet the right criteria for the radius, you know, there's an example where it's very likely the child is ill, not feeling well or an adult is ill and someone has to be in there with them. So, to answer your question, it triggers by investment and then a certain percentage has to be allocated until you're completely in compliance. And as a place of public assembly, I will say to you that it's not a code issue, it is a federal law. So that you won't know you're not in compliance until someone sues you. Do you ever renovate music rooms?

233You know what I'm saying? All the time. Is that an option for us? It is. Yeah, I mean, [snorts] so the option just off the top of my head would be we can't change the footprint per se, but to raise the ceiling in that area to give you the acoustical volume that you would need. I don't Do you recall the square footage of the music room today? Uh today, no, I don't. So, we'd have to double check. I think your footprint is smaller than the uh the facility efficiency standards for a music room, but but to answer your question, yes, you know, we are looking at another district right now where they have the tiered flooring that we want to get rid of because the music teacher hates it and it's just not conducive as

234it used to be and there's an example where we are raising the roof because they too have no ability to expand the footprint, they're not doing any other additions, so we're literally raising the roof in that section to assist with the acoustics, to get rid of the direct natural light that has a negative impact on stored instruments and stuff like that and putting clear stories in so they have more wall surfaces for acoustics and things like that. So, the answer is yes, that is certainly an option as well. You'd be impacting a brand new roof. Yeah. I mean, I'm curious. I know it's not nothing. I'm just being curious. That's so not I was saying I I In a renovation [clears throat] you get 30% of it all for With our our scheme, I guess

235it's arcs. It's I mean, if we can The music room is seems to be a big problem. Just too much volume. It's not Yeah. It's not adequate, I think the equipment and things like that. Could you do uh and maybe this is where like we still go back to Ken's question, fundamentally what do we want in the thing? Like is there a way to to like if you did that, added a multi >> [clears throat] >> functional room that could be a STEM room and then you got the SGI and the small instructional stuff back there like We're getting We're getting kind of twi But then but then we don't have to move the parking lot cuz that's not cuz you're you're just adding one more room for like a multi functional STEM room, maybe

236raising the ceiling on music and then putting in these other SGIs, it's kind of a middle But I think moving the parking lot is what >> Yeah, the parking really The parking that's like [clears throat] like the price goes up because you're just >> Well, let me ask you a question. How often is your parking lot full? Not that full. Well, pretty much every But but for events it's always going to be and we don't design. So, if you want to expand the 10,000 square feet, lose a few parking spaces and not replace them, people can still park along in the curve there. Right? We were just replacing the parking in kind because no one loves to lose parking spaces. If you have an event, people can park on the grass in good weather. So,

237if if you want to expand the 10,000 square feet to make the best use of the educational program and just not replace the parking, there's no code requirement that says you have to do that. We were doing it again to give you the option that most people say, "Oh my god, we can't lose parking spaces." They have the net same same amount. >> Yeah, because we ended up with a net result of formalized parking that is accommodated. I mean, that's certainly I mean, look, we could brainstorm dozens and dozens of options. Yeah. The best solution in my experience is tell me what you want. Tell me the program elements and we'll make it work. Once we get past the minimum, the footprint has to kind of come forward or towards the softball field because you're

238just out of room. Unless you're willing to take out the the playground in the back and some other stuff, we're just physically out of room. And so, if that's the concern, don't do the parking lot now. There's nothing that prevents you from coming and doing it later. That's a good option. And then you can still get all your program needs to an ideal educational program and save significantly. Well, we don't have to decide that now. We when you present the educational component of this, can we itemize that? Yeah. And that could be a great decision and a debate. I'm not saying I'm for or against it, but if it's between windowed classrooms, small instructional space, proper music rooms and several parking spaces, parking's going to I'm going to ask that question. >> For a couple

239of times a year we're [clears throat] always going to have a problem. Yeah. You're never going to solve that problem. There's no school district in this state that solves Better than two or three times >> parking all over the place. Yeah, it's just it's impossible because then you end up with a parking lot that's half empty 90% of the time. Well, it would be half empty, but we we make it Well, even right now it's like at most two-thirds full on a day like I don't think I've ever seen it It's not full as you mentioned. So, to your point, yeah, that's a valid option to look at it if it's itemized and take a look at it. Have a good discussion. The question you mentioned about like, you know, there's the the only places

240to go is the parking lot or the softball field. Just a what if what if you park Can you go towards the softball field because I noticed the wetlands line is kind of right at the building. Are is that Up up to about 6,000 square feet is what we calculated. You can go that way. >> Before we trigger storm water and some other stuff. But then we lose the grass area that Correct. We're in We're in the riparian zone over there. If you remember the drawing, you have these two overlapping arches, one is the wetlands buffer, one is the riparian zone. So, we can still work within those to some degree based on our conversation with the DEP, but there are certain triggers. The beauty of working over here is we're on the pavement. Right.

241It's already disturbed, not a big deal. The grass is partially disturbed because it's being cut all the time, but you know, I think we did a very quick measurement, the a typical softball field has an outfield of 185 feet. If you've got a middle schooler that can hit that far, God bless you, they're going to go far. But, once we do a classroom or whatever, it drops it significantly and it's not even if a kid can hit that far, but someone who has to follow a rolling ball, you don't want them to have this abrupt, you know, piece to it. So, I think you have some concepts from our last meeting to look at, to talk about publicly at the next meeting after you've digested it and we can break out the parking lot for

242you from those estimates and I think that's a very viable solution if if that's what's been perhaps, you know, holding If it doesn't represent 50% of the number, but it's still a significant amount that can be done. Can we Can I suggest we maybe table the discussion till March 11th when we do the in front there's just a lot of discussion to be had at 10:47 or something. Sure, there's a full meeting We have an entire other agenda that actually we don't have to do. I'm kind of about to lose steam, but I I I think we're agreeing that we want what we the addition forward and maybe we ask the parking and that gives us all the educational needs that we think we need. And that's Yeah, and does that give you enough, Greg,

243and then next week I'll I think we go to March 11th I think it gives me enough to understand what I'll be prepared to talk about at the special meeting and then, you know, to get some direction. And again, all you're doing is committing to submitting to the state to get approvals and then what you do ultimately after that is up to you. Okay, good. Thank you. I think you're excused tonight. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, Greg. Thank you very much. Thanks, Greg. It was very helpful. Thank you. Now, so basically you're based on the time when I just had a conversation over here. Guys guys, you know you you would forgo any reports Yeah. on there. Yeah. You can move the Unless you have an objection to maybe pulling something

244out separately, you can move finance, personnel, whatever all together as one one motion. We can do all on a roll call. Okay. Because the only thing is you need to vote on those personnel. Yeah. We'll just roll call it all. Yeah, I'm okay with that and then cuz we have to go to close, too. All right, we'll start with board business one and two though, right? Yeah. Okay. So, um may I have a motion to approve board business motions one and two? Second. I I didn't even I missed that part. Any questions, comments or discussion? If not, the question is on the adoption of board business motions one and two. All those in favor say I. I. All those opposed say no. Any abstentions? I abstain on both. Okay, thank you. And then so the

245question will be on the adoption of finance motions one to nine and personnel motions one to four. And this will be a roll call. Right, John? Yes, let me get to it. Good. The motion. Finance May I have a motion to approve finance motions one to nine and personnel motions one to four, please? Um are there any questions, comments, or discussion? Okay, if not, the question is on the adoption of finance motions one to nine and personnel motions one to four. This is uh Board Doc. Uh yes, except I'm going to abstain from the finance motion which includes me number four. Abstain on finance number four. Yes. Leave it at that. Okay. Abstention. Okay, so that's the only one? Yeah. Okay. Uh Mr. Brandon? Yes. Mrs. Cavana? [clears throat] Yes. Mr. Chin? Yes. Mr. Heninger?

246Yes. Mr. Johnson? Yes. Mrs. McBride? Yes. Mr. Mill? Yes. Motion carried. Well done. Okay. So, are we not going to do commendations [clears throat] or any of that you did? I can briefly do it now. Yep, I can Yeah, I think so, too. So, Mr. Frattini. Over to you. Presently, the only thing I had on my board report was that all Chromebooks will be collected grades four through eight on Thursday, April 20th. April 2nd. Over the break, our tech team can update them and check each Chromebook to ensure they're ready for state standardized testing in May. And now the commendations. Uh Falcons of the month for February. Congratulations to the following students for soaring high with their strong character and academic effort. Fifth grade, Ezra Havens. Sixth grade, Jane Kratiger. Seventh grade, Olivia McAndrew. And

247eighth grade, Jacob Brown. Flying high in fourth grade for January. This certificate is awarded each month to recognize students who display variety of outstanding character and or achievements within the classroom. Congratulations to Essa Essa Quadri, Quadri, Connor Andeen, Shreyan Mondal, Zoe Jane Zaleski, Daniel Zuniga, Adeline Newby, Stella Seminario, Julia Ramp. And congratulations to our our our RVS Falcons that were caught soaring for the month of January. >> [clears throat] >> Charlie Benitez, Teagan Benitez, Angelina Brandt, Catherine Cachebev, Giovanni Chieffori, Jackie O'Driscoll, Victoria Gibson, Jacob Gonzales, Robert Human, Rosalie Iacone, Cameron Casper, Ellie Kennedy, Leilani Lung, Kaffrey Luciano, Shreyan Mondal, Matthew O'Leary, Naomi Padala, Yari Polito, Julian Sportelli, and Lillian Tucker. A spotlight on the student work for January is exemplary works by students in preschool to third grade displayed in the lobby on a monthly

248basis. Anthony Gilbert, Carter Winters, Elliot Azzinari, Madeline Webber, Tyler Larson, Ali Lang, George Connolly, Zoltan Zajos, Adriana Metz, Madison Byrne, Audrey Olsen, Daniel Vinick, Jayce Sutches, and Naomi Padala. And let's thank our student council and Mrs. Olsen for all of our dedicated volunteers who have made this year's winter dance such a wonderful success. We'd also like to congratulate the following teachers on completing the OG training. Your dedication and professional growth and commitment to supporting our students' literacy development is truly appreciated. We're proud of your accomplishment. Marina Nasiola, Matthew Spender, Carly Caston, Marley Goldberg Goldring, >> [clears throat] >> Cindy Snyder, and Alyssa Baldino. Our seventh graders had an amazing time at Broadway seeing The Outsiders. It was a great opportunity to experience a live performance based on a book they read this year. Thank you

249to the seventh grade teachers for sharing this experience and a special thank you to the Ed Foundation for organizing this trip for the second year in a row. We'd like to extend our sincere thanks to the HSA for hosting such a wonderful talent show. Your time, effort, and dedication provide our students with fantastic opportunities to showcase their talents and creativity. Truly a special evening and we're grateful for all you do to support our community. We'd like to congratulate Reya Ennis, seventh grade student, who was nominated by Ms. Bartel and selected as an outstanding vocalist by the Mayo Performing Arts Center for the month of February. Reya was acknowledged for this honor on February 14th. This recognition reflects her exceptional vocal talent, dedication, and commitment to the performing arts. And we would like to congratulate Caitlin

250Holvik on being nominated and named the 2026 Unsung Hero Award recipient. The Morris County School Board Association in partnership with the New Jersey School uh I'm sorry. Uh the Morris County uh School Board Association in partnership with the New Jersey School Board Association recognizes students whose quiet contributions make a powerful difference throughout through the Unsung Hero Award. An Unsung Hero is a student who has made a significant impact on their school and community through unique and often overlooked efforts. These students exemplify outstanding character by overcoming adversity with quiet strength, demonstrating exemplary exemplary citizenship through service and compassion, and consistently making meaningful contributions behind the scenes without seeking recognition. Caitlin's resilience, selflessness, and dedication make her truly deserving of this honor. We're incredibly proud of her and grateful for the positive example she sets forth for

251our entire school. And finally, Mrs. Amy Padala is synonymous with RVS. After 31 years at RVS, she will be retiring this Friday. RVS will miss her dearly, but she will not be forgotten. Her memory lives on and we are we and we wish her all the best in her retirement years. And that concludes my commendations. Thank you. Thank you. John, where do you want me to go now? Now, there were just no that there were no members of public here, so neither of the open sessions were and I think the last piece is you have the policies for first reading and I actually have a question about the policies. I'm having a hard time seeing if there's an indication what changed in each policy. I know we can do it now, but is there a

252way to I highlighted them in the board update that I just sent out. A couple weeks ago. Any old business? I just have one comment and I'm not trying to be a disciplinary, but a lot of people are not doing their notes. It would be really helpful if we could all be doing our fifth com you know committee notes with regularity. I'll be better. I mean I I own it, too, but Yeah. Finance committee. Any new business? Can we just make sure speaking of notes cuz I know I did some last night. Um and Ken, I don't know if this is you, but can we just make sure that the new board members have access to those files? The Google Drive? Yeah. Has anyone gone through there and looked? I think I might have looked,

253but I I think it wouldn't bear double checking. It was a few years ago, if you remember, I didn't have access right away. I had access to everything but some of the folders, so it was an issue. Yeah, so I think it's just double check and I didn't have access to a board agenda in this folder. No. >> That's it. Yeah. Can you click on shared drive? I don't know why I don't I don't know why I don't see Okay, then click on uh It should be the governance committee which is the Okay, 2026. Yeah, I guess he has. Okay, so great. Perfect. Thanks. Other than that, she was just on Morris School Board Association business. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Thank you. That's great. Any new

254business? I just wanted to note I was thinking about we've all been very busy, but the governance committee is not done this year after we kind of resolved some of the questions that are from that we should I don't find time for us at all. Any Any thoughts on governance? Good, I'm ready. Clean up the drive. Clean up the drive. Make the drive workable. And speaking of committees, not to add to anyone more to add any more anyone's plate. I'm losing my verbiage. But I was thinking that it would be beneficial with the referendum planning if we had committee chairs meet with regularity given the intensity of everything the next two months. So, that being finance, program, facilities, and myself with Ken. Just wanted to throw that out there and see how you guys felt

255about that. Good. Great, say yes. Just it just depends when. At night, virtual. Half hour here and there because we are spending hours behind the scenes on our personal lives talking. I know. And it's just not acceptable. Not for you, it's not sustainable. Not for you, it's not sustainable. And I'm going to be blunt on that. It's not sustainable. It's a way to >> So, it would be better just come together like we did with stacking facilities last week, which I think worked out so much nicer. Minus Francis who did who has the update now. but you're able to get everybody from those committees and then as chairs we can be liaisons to disseminating information. And this would be a temporary thing just until we kind of get through the harshest months of the demand.

256As long as it's not more than four. Yeah, yeah. No, no. Just the chairs. Just the four. Well, we're four. Program, facilities, finance. And personnel. And you. Oh, and me. I mean, I I was [clears throat] just program, Finance. Finance, cuz I think they all correlate together. >> That's four. Correct. Which ones would they be? Program, [clears throat] Sorry, it's program, finance, facilities. Yeah. I'm doing a color chart. Program, personnel, [laughter] Make them pink. Program, Uh-huh. Per- not personnel. Yeah. All right. Finance, and facilities. Cuz those Uh-huh. work connected. Yeah, exactly. And myself or Barry is one of us is now available. >> who's program? Uh Chris. I'm finance. Finance. Okay. And then And then Barry and I are the rotating Monday and Friday are regular president. I'm one of the prezies. One of the

257prezies. We're getting punchy. It's yellow. I think stop thinking about Okay, is it these three? Yeah. [clears throat] We have to work with closely. All right, closely. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, any other new business to come up? Great. May I have a motion to enter into an executive session to discuss issues that warrant confidentiality as permitted in the open public meetings act, chapter 231 of the laws of 1975. These matters may or may not be made public when the board reconvenes. They will be made public when the confidentiality of the subject is no longer warranted and the discussion will be based on student matters. Move. Second. It doesn't matter. Go ahead. I I I Okay. Uh we've just returned from closed session. May I have a motion to adjourn the Second. All those in favor.

258Aye. Aye. Aye. Meeting is adjourned.