001All right. Do notice that this meeting was posted on the district website on March 23rd, 2026 under legal notices. Let's do the flag. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Roll call. >> Mr. Cal is not here. Mr. Hulk >> here. >> Miss Gy >> here. >> Mr. Kendall here. >> Mr. L is absent. Mr. Richie's absent. Miss >> Miss Ser's asset. Miss Hel >> here. All right. Moving into section two, our presentation. This is our budget presentation for the evening. >> Okay. You know, not so much of a presentation, more of a discussion tonight. I put a uh staple, two pieces of paper on front of the board. We'll
002run through it off of have copies for the public comment first. >> No, a couple of comments after. >> Um I also have copies for the community and our guest tonight. I just want to talk to the board a little about what this is and I'm happy to just read the paper. We can discuss it. Right. So we have three columns on here. We travel three very different parallel paths and I think the goal of any budget is to minimize the tax increase for the community by also minimizing cuts the programs for kids right those two things have can work in opposition to one another which is very challenging at times if you look at the left hand column and the margins are cut off okay but in this is a snapshot of the last
003three years in 2023 24. This community has absorbed a large tax increase. In 2324, there's a 2% increase needed simply to maintain operations. In 2425, there's another 2% increase in the community. Then the board of education passed the bond referendum was approach caused approximately a $20 per month impact on an average assessment. Last year there was a significant increase of 15% which resulted in a $73 per year increase for the average assessed home. And tonight we're going to decide what to do with the 2026 2027 budget because we once again find ourselves in a very challenging position. Okay. In the middle column, you have a snapshot of all of the programs and professional staff that was reduced over the last three years. I'll read them to you. At least one elementary teacher, although I think
004there was two, okay? And I think two because when we do the solid lines and dotted lines, I think there was an additional savings to teacher. I only put one elementary teacher to start with. gifted, talented, business education, middle school social studies, middle school English, high school physics, middle school math, reading interventionist, high school English, high school chemistry, physical education, middle school counselor, high school administrator, elementary music teacher, high school SAT counselor, district auto mechanic, and at least three support staff that were reduced in term of clerical secretary work. Guidance secretary, a central office clerk and a middle school secretary. All were positions um that was reduced and all this work was redistributed to the existing staff that we need. In addition, we haven't had any textbook purchases significantly uh reduced the amount of professional
005development and reduced supplies across the district. We attempted to put the board office building for sale and we went out for an RFP for realer services and we didn't receive any any bids on that. Uh however, we are committed to doing that again to um consider selling the board of education office due to the list of staff and programs that are no longer in the district. I'm sure there are some empty spaces where we could distribute where we could we could go and and work out of schools. Um, some key factors that are driving this vicious cycle of challenging budget. There are 600 districts in the state of New Jersey. Only 28 districts over the last three years have lost state aid. Our aid loss over three years is 1.1 million29,000. Property values in Camden
006County are among the highest in the uh in the state for appreciation and township happens to have some of the highest property value increases in the last three years in Camden County specifically in the last year. Aggregate income is something that the state pointed to as something that was reducing our state aid eligibility which I think is a very flawed metric because You know, the best way to find the middle of a number is to use the medium, but the aggregate income could be influencing our reductions in state aid eligibility. I have not seen um hard evidence from the department of the treasury that a aggregate income has increased so much that it should have that result. But that is something that the state has pointed out to me. The geographic cost adjustment in Camden
007County is 0.97 which means we are deducted by about three.3%. Um from the baseline of how state aid is calculated. So if the state the department determines that a district should receive X amount of dollars districts in Camden County only receive 97 of X because according to the 2014 data the cost of doing business in Camden County is less compared to other counties in the state mostly in North Jersey that have above one geographic cost index up to about 1.1% above one >> and just on that point that geographic cost adjustment cost us just over a million dollars in our state aid this year. >> So they should have given us just over a million dollars more and because they applied the geographic cost adjustment they took that away. >> The health benefit the projected
008health benefits increase for our district is 25% which will put our total cost just on health benefits for full-time staff at $8 million. there is a chance that this uh health benefits uh increase is going to come in closer to 20%. We were fingers crossed. Um I think that our projection provided us with a ceiling. Seems like other districts are are are are predicting a number closer to 20%. So we could have some hope there for less pain when it comes to the amount of increase in the health benefit contributions. We'll know in a short amount of time. We don't know tonight. On the second page, we kind of pick up where we left off, so to speak, with choices before the board, which have choices to raise the local tax levy anywhere between 2%
009and 6%. Obviously 6% would have a higher increase on this community which would cause an additional cost per month to the number of $31 per month, $368 annually. Nobody wants to do that. But doing this would provide a deficit to the district to be cut of $100,000, which I'm comfortable we could easily absorb with a staff retirement and not have any further reductions. If we considered going to a 4.5% increase instead of a 6% increase, the additional cost per month impact would be $24 or $287 per year. The amount that we would have to cut out of this budget is $550,000. If we went to three and a half%, the deficit would be would require us to cut $850,000. And if we went to 2%, we would be required to cut $1.3 million. The good
010news about tonight is that this is only a preliminary submission. Okay? So, it's due to the county office tomorrow. We're going to have some discussion about the pros and cons and the range of decisions that need to be made. Whatever the board decides tonight, the administrative team will meet and we'll try to get the number with recommendations from the board for cost savings. We'll bring you that number April the 16th to determine the reductions and whatever whatever we decide to get to the number we need to get to for your approval, tenative approval on April 16th. and we'll align next year's budget to district goals and I'll present the district goals uh and the final budget on May 7th probably in this room um in front of our community and even on May 7th that
011evening the public will have an opportunity to ask questions so the board and we have an opportunity to change that budget and go higher or lower we cannot exceed 6% that number is maximizing the health benefits adjustment that the state is providing us with because of the significant amount that our health benefits increased. A little bit more bad news. There's a number and a phrase that the district uh that the state likes to use and that that phrase is adequacy. and our district is considered to be below adequacy. So, one of the ways that the uh you know when we email Trenton and I seek support number that keeps coming back to me is that your your district is below adequacy and and this was where the point of tension is. And what below adequacy
012means is that the state asserts that the taxpayer is not paying enough taxes and should be paying more for how they calculate the local fair share. It's a flawed formula. It's a flawed algorithm. They're using values like real estate appreciation. That's not real money to change to to indicate to change our adequacy number and essentially demand more from the board of education when it comes to a tax increase, more from the taxpayer in order for the district to bring up our local fair share. That's where we are. Um, regardless of the decision that we make tonight and on May 7th, this conversation is not over. Um, and our school funding formula and advocacy must continue. And we must continue to consider all ideas, all ideas for cost savings, minimizing tax increases, and also minimizing cuts
013to student program. No idea is a bad one. and uh we're getting to a place in very deep water along with surrounding districts and we have our work cut out for us not only in the next few months but in the next few years. Does anyone have any questions about what I said or does anything need to be uh clarified? Um when he's talking with a is that the cost we pay per student to educate them just what the town >> the total the total number that the town should contribute to the cost of an education we're $3.4 million below adequacy which to me being around as long as I have been working you know in Trenton for a decent amount of time to me signals that our state aid is going to continue to
014be cut. So, and and the only thing that saved us was it capped the reduction at 3% this year, but we only got hit by 0.5% because our enrollment has increased over the last six years, which is the only lever in this whole formula that is working in our favor. >> But it has nothing to do with the dollar amount per student that we should be like that has nothing to do >> it's not per student, it's total. It's the total the total adequacy number to >> but I think it is figured out. >> It is figured out based on the number of students. So that's what it's saying it should cost us to educate our students is $40 million. But our ad advocacy our local fair share can go to 35 million but we're
015only getting about 32 million. So we're that's what makes us under like the like there's that student number and the state like where that falls. That's I'm just >> So if we were allowed at this point and the state had its way and said you have to get to adequacy, we would actually be raising taxes if my math is correct around 12%. >> Another $3.4 million. >> Oh, another 3.4 on top of >> the adacy to to where we come to an advocacy number >> where but is that factoring in the 1.8 if we went to six if >> it would be 12, right? It basically be >> Oh, right, right, right. I see what you're saying. It would be 12%. be 12 factoring in it would be another 1.2 which obviously we're not doing.
016We cannot do. Nobody wants to. >> I'm just That's the path that the state seems to be. >> It's interesting. So yesterday I was in Trenton. I was testifying in front of the assembly budget committee about our school funding formula and the challenges that we're facing and um the hits that have come and the need to reform the funding formula. Uh did tell them we need additional funds this year and we need to change the funding formula. I doubt anything will change as a result of that, though. There was some acknowledgement from the committee that the funding formula is flawed and no longer working. That doesn't necessarily mean they're willing to change it um anytime soon. So, we'll see where that goes, but we are working on uh time with majority leader Greenwald who asked
017for us and other districts to come to him with potential solutions so he can advocate on our behalf in Trenton um to make changes to the funding formula and the way funds get allocated outside of the formula as well. But I while I was there, I was doing some additional calculations as I waited for my turn. Um, and our what the state believes our residents should be paying, our local fair share has gone up 47% in the past 5 years. >> 47% in 5 years. I mean, we had like a 5 million jump last year. Um, and so that was a big part of that. But that is a ridiculous increase. It's like if if we were staying at adequacy then we would actually be raising our taxes at a similar rate. Um and we
018have we were above adequacy until 2024 and now we are pretty significantly substantially below um and they believe that our community is wealthy enough to pay more which we don't necessarily agree with in the way the formula is calculated. >> Can I ask another question? Mhm. When did the funding really go into effect? >> 2008. >> So it was designed for many years before that, but it officially went into effect in 2009. >> And then in 2010, >> correct? The cap used to be there was 4% with additional adjustments allowed and then it got changed to the 2% cap. >> So it kind of had two things simultaneously going on. couldn't go down the 2% and that now we are in this formula that doesn't match what we need. >> Let me let's talk about
019some positive things that are happening in the district. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Despite what we've been through, what we're going through, our staff and our students, our community has shown some really great resilience and and the board has shown commitment and resilience. There's areas of our student achievement that are significantly rising year after year. You've seen the data coming out of our middle school um this past year. You've seen the data coming out on math scores and the improvement that we're showing. And you know, despite less staff, our our you know, we're seeing a very nice trajectory when it comes to many areas in terms of student achievement, not just middle school high school AP scores, SAT scores, things like this. Student enrollment is the highest it's ever been. So, this fact that like
020the taxes are are are higher than ever and there's, you know, large rise in taxes. Our kindergarten class is the highest class in the district. The the highest populated class needed at high edition is our kindergarten students and our our new families. Our environment has improved. Okay, we're paying for it. Okay, there's pain in it. You hear the noise? Okay, we still have can't figure out what that noise is, but the students have state-of-the-art 21st century library with the the visual um performing arts have beautiful new practice rooms. Um, our athletic locker rooms have uh new uh new areas for students. We're building a 21st century technology lab to expand uh STEM and technology education and the arts. Um advanced sky to chop off and pick up this dramatically improved for student safety. You know,
021there's there's vast improvements in our environment. Yes, they're costly, but there's a product that our kids are getting. We did a robust comprehensive staff climate survey. You saw the results of that. Um the staff climate is excellent across the district except there was one question where they felt like they're overworked and doing more and not always able to complete the duties assigned for them. That's understandable considering the amount of staff that is being cut. The student climate survey, you'll see those results in April. We're pleased with those results, too. Our students have a voice. students are reporting being safe in school and liking school and there's some work to be done with helping students always see the relevancy in what they learn. Um but all in all we're pleased with the survey that we that
022we administer to our students grades three to eight and discipline referrals are fairly low. We have some things in the in the district. Yeah, we certainly have some things, but comparatively speaking to, you know, other areas of the country, other areas of the county, as a matter of fact, I I think we do pretty well in our conservative behavior. So, despite all this, um, you know, we're I'm very proud of the perseverance and the resilience of of everyone. >> Mr. Bo, any more questions about the handout? I said before I pass it out to the community. Okay, my original handout is better spacing, but there's a few typos on it. So, I'm going with the other handout, which has doesn't have as good a spacing, but it's it's fully accurate. So, excuse the left margin
023is cut off a little bit. If there's a question, I'll tell you what those words were. >> I think it's just the two. in front of my camera. >> I think the other thing we talked about last week, but as we explore every option for cost savings, we are working um with the township to see if there are any places where we could have some shared services where we could both the township and the district see some cost savings if we kind of combine some resources in order to share the expenses. So that's an ongoing conversation and it will continue until we approve our last thing on the second page um talks about considering all cost savings ideas and that's what's next. What's next is what's the plan, right? But what's now is we just
024have to figure out what the increase is going to be based on the or predict it to be a preliminary to be submitted for the county based on the information that you have and still the one that there's hope for is that this this health benefits uh premium may not may not actually go to 25. It sounds like that might be a ceiling from what we're hearing. and the 300,000 I think. Yeah. Yeah. >> Is that closer to 20 >> would not raise but that's what I So probably we're not in public comment yet. >> We will get close. >> Yeah. >> Any other thoughts or questions from the board before the open for public? We'll make sure we have enough time and space for absorption of this information too. I think um one thing
025that can feel a little bit different is the like public sector constraints around how like benefits are controlled and through union contracts and we just don't have a lot of control. We can't it's not like a private company where it can be like you now have to pay more into your benefits because they cost us more. We don't have that option. um it's just not possible through the union contract that we have and the way that public benefits are structured. So we are constrained in some of the ways we can offset some of these rising costs which is unfortunate but it's just kind of like the the structure that exists for us. >> Jen, can I ask a question? The teachers do contribute to their health benefits. I think that's a lot of miscommunication that
026people think they're getting it for free, >> but they are contributing a large amount to their hospital. Not much. >> They are contributing. It depends on what um what plan you choose. So there's two sectors. There's a chapter 78 which I know you understand this but and then there's a chapter 44. So there's two ways which that we collect money for um health benefits from the employees. Yes. And that's all for statute. So we can't change that. It's not like we can negotiate a higher cost. >> So you want to explain what chapter 78 what? >> So chapter 78 is that >> based on the based on your um sorry yes you pay a percentage of your health benefits. Chapter 44 is uh based on that's the new law and that's the lesser plan. you're
027getting a lesser plan, but you're paying less for the benefits because you're paying for the benefits based on a percentage of your salary rather than the percentage of the benefits. >> And uh correct me if I'm wrong, but years ago there was a push for all districts to enter the state the school employee health benefits plan. >> We did not enter that plan. >> No, >> that plan the costs have increased 31.9% >> this year. So, so our our choice not to go into that plan has helped us right now. Even it doesn't feel like that because all of the increases are tough, >> right? And the current plan we're now we're now in is trust. There's several districts that that work together to get their benefits through. >> So that saves us because we're
028in it with other districts like a shared cost. >> Yes. >> Yeah. answer. >> I I just think I think it a long long time ago it was not that way but to teachers as well. >> I believe that was 2010. All right. >> Well, I'd like to hear from the public and then then we can continue our conversation. >> Great. Happy to open it up. Okay. We're going to open up for public comments. Um, this is limited to the budget we are approving tonight. Um, and comments about that. Um, if you have a comment, please state your name, the street you live on, and um, limit to three minutes. >> My name is Christine Latro. I live in Holly Avenue. I've been working at Den for 25 years. Um, my taxes didn't go up
029700 and some. I went up $2,400 and I'm not in the bluebird section at all. And now with this, this is going to go up higher if we go to the 6%. and it's all about the teachers healthcare. If we sell the board of education building, which is nobody's barely ever there, like would they still go up as high is what I would like to know. >> Sure. Let's say that. Oh, first I think I glanced over something that's on the sheet. The township during this time did do a reassessment of the community where onethird of the township's homes went up in uh in taxes, one/3 stayed the same, and one third went down. So, it was rather neutral. It sounds like that you were on the side. >> Yeah. I got, you know, because
030I'm going to fight that, too. I'm in the process of doing that because everybody around me, nobody went up that high but my house. And it was ridiculous. >> Um, >> that was going to be like this is crazy. >> If we told the board office whatever we got in cash, we would put right into the general budget >> and that'll just keep >> Yeah, it was minimize minimize. >> And is there any reason cash in the future? >> All right. And is there any reason why like we can't do like fundraiser stuff and stuff like that? Like there's other ways to get money. It's not just you don't have to just take it from like the taxpayers to make our taxes go high. There's so many different ways. Like there's Does anybody ever look
031at that kind of stuff, you know what I mean? Cuz like there's so many things that we can do for fundraiser stuff that we do. We lean heavily on HD as a grant. They fund over $200,000 in materials and supplies and programs for our classrooms. Um we're trying to rent our facilities out. We have a new sign on board. We're going to try to sell ads on that sign to bring to bring in revenue. No ideas of bad tech service. >> Thank you. >> My name is Dippo. I live on East Park Avenue. Yes. where the horiz um I am so against this increase. You already get 54% of my profit. 54%. I'm senior citizen. I live on social security only. You give me another 6%. I'm I have no money for food. I have
032no money for gas in my car. I'll barely be able to keep my head above water. And you want to take more from me? She just got 15%. And yes, we did get an assessment, which I fought because how they assessed my house was utterly ridiculous. They compared my house to other homes that had more bedrooms, more bathrooms, more footage, and I won. And so I my house got lowered. Grant my taxes didn't get lowered that much, but this is unacceptable. There's other ways that you can make some cuts. Get rid of the school buses. My kids never got picked up from school. >> Nobody even takes the school bus. >> Nobody takes the buses. Get rid of the school buses. Why do you need them? Then you'll stay in your panic. Like this is
033ridiculous. There's other ways to do this. And hitting the taxpayer over and over and over again is unacceptable. I am taxed. I can't even afford to move out of the state because I have to pay an exit tax. So this is just utterly ridiculous. Every time you have a budget issue, we are the ones that have to pay the prices. We just paid for fields, football fields. What else do you want from us? >> I don't even have any children in school. I should not be paying the same amount of a percentage of school tax that a family that has two incomes and children in school. I should not I brought this up at the town hall meeting with Don Wars and Mr. vegan. You're sending them for training and they're looking all into this
034because senior citizens are literally getting the brunt of everything. You bring them less money but have to pay the same amount to say my neighbor across the street that has two incomes and children in school. How is that fair? How do you justify that? You can't. So this I am totally against this. I I pray it doesn't pass because and the people the five board members that is partially approved this shame on you all. Shame on you all. I don't know how you can look these residents in the face knowing that you're going to approve this. So do you really care that residents have really hitting our seniors really baden? >> I'm sorry. What? >> I'm sorry. >> We're best friends. So, so what we have to say tonight is it really going to matter?
035Is it really going to make a difference? And be honest, will it? >> Yes or no? >> We do not do that. We do not do polls of public comment. >> So, I'll take that as an >> Sometimes the sometimes super sometimes the board has to speak up for the superintendent. Sometimes the superintendent has to speak up your board. Nobody in the board wants to raise anybody's taxes. They don't they don't. >> What are you doing? >> Hold on one second. We feel like we're being forced to do this. We had a meeting in this room and less than 3 weeks ago. We had assembly majority lead in the room. Many of the points that you made, your exact points was the same exact points that our board president Kelly Hink made. She made those
036points on your behalf to our assembly majority leader. He stood right there. And we don't over this Liz from the retrospect covered the story she was in the room. We understand we've been fighting the school funding formula for so for years for at least >> let the teachers pay for their increase in healthcare. My healthcare is going up 17%. Anybody >> sorry we are not legally allowed to do that. >> Well let me tell you something. A teacher that makes $40,000 and only pays 1.7%. A teacher that makes 70 to $80,000 pays 2.8%. A f um a per another teacher that makes over $100,000 pays up to 3.6%. Mine's going up 17%. So how do you justify this? How can I not pay for their own healthcare? I have to pay for mine. I have
037no >> We are We are restricted about the contract. Redo the contract. I am giving some additional leeway this evening in our public comment section because I know folks are upset uh and want to share some thoughts. Uh so I'm adding some like back and forth that we don't typically have. Public comment is really give us comments and we are listening to them. But there is some additional context that is helpful and we want to make sure that we're having a conversation where we're able to provide that. To the bus's point, we have looked at what it would look like if we got rid of our buses. We are required to bus some students. We have a non-ontiguous town. We have two sections of town that are not attached to the rest. We have kids
038who cannot walk to their school. >> Do they pay for the bus? >> We are required to provide busing for those students based on the distance they live from their schools. That is state law. Uh we have looked into and talked with other districts who have gotten rid of rid of their bus fleets. Every single one of those districts has told us they regret it because they are now tied to vendors who are not capped in the costs that they can charge for us to have or for districts to have use of those buses. The vendors that we partner with, particularly in special education, particularly in transportation, they can increase their costs at any time, at any rate they would like to. So we could even for example we could sign a contract in September
039for services and they have the ability to double the cost of that in October. There is no cap on what they charge us. We are legally required to provide these services and so we are stuck in those circumstances. So we are in a capped revenue system with what we can raise and what funds we have available to us with uncapped costs coming to us. That is part of the challenge we're facing. We see that again particularly when it comes to transportation costs outside of the district where we have to send students for special education services and for special education services in general which have increased exponentially especially since the formula was created. So, it seems like it's getting to the point where New Jersey is going to have to maybe start charging tuition. Not like
040a Catholic school, of course. It's completely unaffordable. Whether it be $50 a child, $100 a child per year, whatever it may be, you're going to be getting to that point. Or the school's going to have to close half the year and do it from home and then leave it at the other. So, then you'll save on gas and electric and heat and all of that. >> There are places who have dropped the number of days. They've gone to four days a week instead of 5 days a week of education. Our job is to protect what is best for students and for their learning and educational experience. And that's what we have to consider as board members and as the administrative team. That's what we're taking into account while trying to balance and think about the
041burden that is being put on our local taxpayers. We are also part of this community and taxpayers in this community. We feel that same burden. and we feel the increased costs that are coming from taxes and from everywhere else the grocery store uh at the pump like everything. So we completely understand we are in a challenging position that we are trying to navigate. Again we're going to approve a budget tonight and it's tentative and then we're going to work our butts off all of us but especially our administrative team to identify additional cost savings between now and when we finalize a budget. And so anything we approve tonight is just tentative and has the potential to change. Uh and so I want to make sure that folks know this is not set in stone. We're
042going to be doing everything that we can to identify cost savings. We know that this is really challenging. It's really hard. We're in a very less than ideal situation. We acknowledge that. We recogize that. >> No, I know. I know. I know. >> But yet we'll get stuck with it if he's approved. We'll have no say. My insurance actually just went up and I my husband passed a year and a half ago and I'm paying more now on my own than I did and if I have to do that as a widow of a year and a half I don't understand why I have to pay the teachers health benefits too. >> We are legally required in these in these places. I understand that it feels challenging. We are required by law in these circumstances.
043All right, we're going to move continue in our public comment saw your hand 23 Avenue. I think that like to your point, we're bearing the the brunt of the cost of the healthcare for the teachers, but our own healthcare, our premiums went up. We pay over 5% of our income to, you know, so we're paying sounds like maybe double. We're contributing twice as much and our premiums also went up and our our healthcare providers Etna which is millions of people have and Etna made huge changes into like the benefits that they offer um to accomp to account for you know the incredible you know I guess surge in healthcare costs across the country. So now on top of our $1,000 from the 15% increase and the, you know, $240 from the bond referendum and now
044another $350, we're paying $700 out of pocket every month for medications that were formerly covered by Etna and now are not covered. So then it this feels incredibly unfair and I get that it's a a you know the union and its contract to sort of like prop up another failing health care system when you know it's we have our own you know our own costs are just not just at comp not just at the grocery store but our healthcare costs are going up too and to move on from that what's the ending I feel like we broke the seal with the 15 you know the 15% tax um of you know the hype was the first time we went above that like 2% cap right and now it's like two years in a row what's
045going to happen next year it sounds like I what I hear you're saying and I appreciate your vowing efforts probably truly but you know it's like you're not optimistic that anything's going to change with the school funding formula so like when did you say what's the long-term And we can't do this until we get up to the states what their adequacy mark is because they can move that goal coast cuz they've already been moving the goal post. So like when do we say I don't know there's something major how sustainable is this? I know we're not the only bishop in this situation and all cherry health everybody's we're g number how many state how many >> you know what what's for for us as taxpayers we're at your mercy I was like what are we
046supposed to do we Jerry and I were talking about like we can't we got a plain loop you know because and we don't want to do that you you know, but my son's a junior and now I'm just like, "Okay, well, wait, you can tuck that out for another year and I'm find a cheaper place to live. I just want to know, can you please tell us what the long-term plan is for the fiscal health of the district so we don't have this conversation year after year?" >> Very well put, very well uh stated. Um, I'm going to be totally honest with you. I don't know what the endame is. It's just I don't know. Um I will say that when we had a meeting with some majority leader, he thought that there could be
047some financial incentives and some cost savings for districts that would engage in school district consolidation. Okay, that line of thinking leads us down the path to understand this problem as a small district problem. If you study the districts that have these types of financial goals, they're not only small districts. The day that assembly started agreement was here. Cherry Hills superintendent was here. So was Washington Township. So was Eastern Regional High School. Large districts in our state, Jersey City, Jackson, Toms River, all have huge deep holes. I'm not convinced that this is a small district problem. Look at districts that have holes in their budget. However, there's no idea. I think that's an okay one and we would consider any idea only that one um if it's going to all stabilize our party. >> I I
048know that I've said I'm not optimistic um and I'm not sure how much appetite there is. I will say the conversation that we had with Majority Leader Green was the first that truly gave me some hope because he asked for followup. He asked us to come together to bring together a delegation of districts to meet with him uh in April and to share ideas and suggestions that he can bring on our behalf to the rest of the legislature. And that is not something I've heard in the past. I've heard a lot of like listening and we understand this is challenging and and no kind of specific action steps. So that does give me more hope than I've had in the past. Even though I am still skeptical of course about it's just the bureaucracy of
049government and how long it takes to change things. >> Hi for breakfast 262 Strawbridgeidge AB. Um the way I see this is uh well I do think that the state's point of view and I agree with it is if you want a small town a private school experience and expect to pay for it. Consolidation should have happened 10 plus years ago, but politicians don't want to be in, you know, honest with towns people. Old-fashioned viewpoints would not allow it to happen. Having said that, we have a raidables problem. We have a lot of development going on in this town. Do you have a number from the mayor's office? Direct communication of the percentage of current pilots and pilots that are coming online and what that percentage what of that percentage is going to schools. How
050transparent is the communication if there's any at all? >> Yes, we we just met with the mayor. We have an excellent relationship with Mayor T. I think he's extremely honest and extremely transparent and extremely forthright. We met with him last week or the week before. We sat down for about 45 minutes. We discussed these pilots. We don't have the actual data yet unless you can see who did. Um but this exact conversation was had and led by President. >> We do not currently receive any funding from any pilots in town. And I think there's there's only one currently, but there are a couple that are coming. And that is because by law 5% goes to the county in pilots. Uh in these longer term pilots there are a few different types of pilots but in
051the longer term which is typically what we're talking about 5% goes to the county that is required. 95% goes to the municipality. Of that 95% the municipality has an option to decide how that money gets spent. Um and there are times in the pilots where very little money comes in. Sometimes there's an outlay on the front end before you're getting actually like money to cover that. um from the taxes you're receiving in the pilot process or the payments that you're receiving in the pilot process. So, right now it's zero dollars. Uh but again, because that is the state structure, there has been some legislation that's been um put out there, but it hasn't moved to change that and to require some of the pilot funding to go to school districts. And we have successfully seen
052that happen in a handful of municipalities across the state. It's becoming slightly more common. We are in active conversations. Our our mayor is open to this. We have not gotten to any numbers. We haven't gotten anything finalized. We are actively in a conversation um which is the first step and we are thankful to be in that conversation and that we have such a great relationship and openness mayor but we haven't landed anywhere. We don't have any uh active new pilots coming in. >> Okay. Yeah. That this is the front line. Okay. like if I if I'm going to support you because I love this school district. I love how my children have benefited, right? But I also understand that it is sustainable insustainable at this size and it's not just the borderline of the town.
053It is the ratables. So I am actually shocked the number is zero. I didn't think you were going to come back at me with that. This is becoming a mayor issue. this is becoming we have to start showing up to those meetings, okay? Not so much these meetings. >> Um I don't necessarily agree with that. Again, I we're in active. The last pilot is like almost expiring, I believe. I'm not fully >> Well, then those ratables will be coming online. If they're expiring, how much are those ratables? >> I that I'm not I'm not sure. See, I just >> We can't have a conversation about anything because this is what we get. >> I I just don't Those are township. I don't I don't know those numbers. >> Those are not under those are not
054under our purview. And >> that's fine. Then we'll take care of it. You see, you're telling me not to go to the mayor. Oh, I wouldn't suggest that. But, you know, I'm not saying not to go to the mayor. I'm I'm >> town council. I'm just saying we're in active conversations with the mayor to address this and fix this moving forward. So, I don't think I don't think this is a this is a current problem. I actually think we're in an active problem solving and solutioning with the township, which is great. And most other towns can't say the same thing. We have such a great relationship with our mayor that he's actively working on this with us. But you've had zero pilot money and we've had budget problems for years. But you're telling me tonight
055that you've got zero pilot money, but you've got a great relationship with the mayor. Make it make sense. That makes no sense to me. There's a lot of people making a lot of money in this town. >> I would I would also say if we want to fix this holistically, the legislature is who actually changes that decision and changes the requirements and does that not just for us but for everybody. And that's where the like I think there's significant opportunity because when we approach things in a siloed process or like just for one town when we know other towns are struggling. It doesn't solve for all the kids. It's also just for our kids which is great. We want to solve things for our kids. But when there's an opportunity to solve more broadly, we
056actually want that to happen as well because all kids deserve quality education. Um, and so the legislation that's been introduced around pilots and sharing funding with school districts is what we'd like to really see advance and put pressure on our legislators to actually make that happen. Um, and to change the structure so that by law it's not just 5% to the county and 95% to the municipality, but there's a share that goes to the school district that is clear for every district and is known on the front end rather than negotiated individually with. Right now, the mayor controls that purse. He has control of that money. So, I agree with you on the macro, that would be great. Okay? But as soon as things go to Trenton, it's, you know, red versus blue. Okay? We're
057here right now. The mayor is being talked to, that's great. I think more pressure needs to be I think we need to show up. We need to show up. By the way, pilot is payment in lie of taxes. In case anyone doesn't know, it means that they get 30-year pilots that are substantially lower in the actual ratables that they would have to pay if they did not get that deal. >> Several I certainly understand. >> Last thing on funding, getting some money. Beer garden. Beer garden. >> There you go. Always packed. Where's our money? >> My my neighborhood is obnoxious for beer garden, but let's beer garden. We we will explore if there are there are options there. We know that there can be an increase in just an individual municipality in taxes related to
058like alcohol sales, but there could potentially I'm not sure what you can explore if there's a way to charge for like event attendance when there are especially private events, not nonprofit events or school events happening at the square. It's it I think that's a good question. I don't know what is and is not possible, but we should expect that. >> Uh, I saw a hand over here. >> Okay. >> Jerry McCarthy, 806 West, Mount Vernon. First, let me just pause. Thank you, Kelly. I know you have a thankless job. I played on saying this before I saw what you did yesterday, but I really do appreciate all the hard work you're putting in. I think you add a lot of value to the board and to this town and please don't stop. It's easy for
059us to sit here and beat you guys up. I've done it many times before, but sincerely thank you. I'm not getting soft. So relax. Now we're getting out of business. So I'm in the mood. Let's strip it down before we can build it back up. You don't know. You don't have the answers. Strip it down. Calls. It's the way it goes. That's life. All right. Yes. on your side. You have to do what's best for the kids. We are also taxpayers. You want the kids to succeed as well. But sometimes you got to strip it down, build it back up, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Part two is what you don't know is is chapter 44 expired at the end of 207. >> December 27th. Yep. >> So, are you going to come
060back at us next year and say, "Guys, medical benefits are up again. Teachers can only pay a percentage of their salary. I'm sorry, guys." That's where I say we got to you. You have to strip it down because otherwise next year you're coming back at us because you can't do anything when the medical benefits go up. They're not going now. And then I don't even know what your contract states. If it expires 20 December 31st, 2027, did it is a contract in place. So I guess that maybe you're like, "No, Jerry, in 2028 we can do what we want, possibly save some money." But my thing is when you say I don't know, and it is a mathematical state funding problem. That's the first problem. We got that. But you're just putting a band-aid on
061this leak, right? Just all right. You say I'm going to raise it 6%. Well, next year medical benefits are going up. And you're in the same boat with this chapter 44. So, how I see it is you can't do anything. You can't get freedom back with these medical benefits until chapter 44 expires, which with what you're doing now that you have connections, you know, people, maybe that's another layer that you back. And nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to go against the teachers. It's not going against the teachers. It's just the way the world is working out because of the state's mathematical formula. So my question is what are we doing next year? And I know what you're going to say, Jerry. We take it year by year. I get. But I think you
062owe it to us to acknowledge that if it's a majority medical benefit problem, we have the same issue next year. Thank you. Um on the benefits piece, we >> when I testified before the state senate committee in Trenton, um one of the things that we were advocating for was a multi-year budget cycle where they would let us know what our state aid was going to be over m multiple years at a time. So we weren't waiting, you know, holding our breath every year to do these one-year plans. Um so far that's not perition, but that's something that we have requested. >> And there was, I believe, performance legislation that did include that. It didn't it did not move forward. Um, we did push on that, but it didn't. Can >> I have a quick question
063with that mathematical form you mentioned earlier? Did you mention they're going back using something from 2014? >> Yes. Geographic cost. Geographic cost adjustment, >> which would help though. >> That would if we were if we were one instead of 0.97. Yeah. How much more? >> Just over if they use 2026, are we one? >> You see what I'm saying? It might benefit I'm just asking. It might benefit us to use that 2014. I'm like, I don't know that answer. >> No, I doubt the the way that Cam County has changed in the last 12 years. I, you know, speculation is that we would be >> better off, right? >> Or if they just got rid of it entirely, >> right? no longer. I got >> uh for that geographic cost adjustment just for some context
064on that one. Um so it's done by county, right? So Camden County is at 0.97. There are no counties in South Jersey that are above one. There are five counties in central New Jersey that are above one and there are four in North Jersey that are above one. And so nobody every every district in South Jersey is taking a cut as a result of that. Um, on the health benefits piece, one of the things that did come up because we're in conversations with multiple districts about what are we proposing for long-term solutions and some of that is like how do we not just identify changes to the funding formula, but what are potential new revenue options that we can propose to the state because people like when you try and bring solutions to them. Uh,
065as well as like what are other areas we can focus on outside of education. So, we're not just limited to the funds that already exist for education, but we can identify more across the state and health benefits have come up of like is there a way um to push on insurers because we're all feeling it. We are the most densely populated state. Insurance companies want our people. There are lots of our people. There are lots of people in the state of New Jersey. And are there ways that we can limit rate increases so that they're still allowed to offer insurance in the state? I don't know. I'm not an insurance expert in any way, but are there ways we can put pressure on them to minimize the costs and the ways that they're raising benefits
066and the rates that they're raising? And so that is something we're going to be proposing again to majority leader Greenwald. He has done a lot of this with the auto insurance industry and the rates that we've had to pay in New Jersey. And so he does have a track record of pushing back on insurance corporations. And so maybe we can translate that to something on the health benefit side. But again, we haven't even had that conversation with him. We're going to be pushing on that as multiple districts, a consortium kind of coming together. >> I think something else that came up while we were having discussions, we've also been having discussions among multiple districts that are in the same boat as us. Um, also there's some places that haven't like we just were reassessed last
067year. There's some places that haven't been reassessed even though they're legally required to do so, but in New Jersey in like decades and potentially are their home values that are listed are way less than they actually are and thus are getting a much higher bucket of state aid than they potentially should be getting based on their actual home value. So I think that's something else we can >> push on the legisle. >> Yeah, there are some some municipalities. It's been more than 40 years since they've done their revaluation. >> I'm sorry. Mike Morurly 11 South Avenue. Listen, I'm I am owner operator. I understand union. I'm 40 years in the union. I have to pay my mints like insurance and all that, healthcare. That's $20,000 a year for 52 weeks a year. Okay. So, is
068there any way other towns can join together and as a bigger number to get a different rate? >> We already are we already are in in a trust. Okay. >> For our health insurance and our property liability. >> Yeah. So, we are joined with multiple towns. I guess the question is if we if we joined with additional towns, if they got bigger, more >> towns joined in more district. >> Forgive me, I'm just getting into all this. >> Yeah, that's fine. And I know that my taxes went up >> $2,500 in last year. All right. I I have a big house. Yes, it's only two of us. But you're you're this is killing the It is killing the And they're not going to be able to afford this. and pushing the elevator right out of
069our town. Even our young kids came in for these sacks of town. >> So back. >> We all know that. My daughter played ball with all. You know what I mean? But uh >> all our kids grew up. >> I know it's we have to get it involved. I know that. >> But I do think it is a good question. If there was a way to add additional districts, >> yes, >> make the group bigger. >> Bigger the better. Could the premiums be reduced and go down because more folks are in and there's a greater value to the insurance broker to have more of us together? >> Oh yeah. Uh so senior freeze hopefully folks are aware of senior freeze as an option when you're 65 and if you're under certain income thresholds you can
070apply. >> Yeah, you can apply for senior freeze. everyone um who hits the eligibility requirements is able to take advantage of that benefit. The um the way it's structured is less than ideal and perhaps that's an area of additional advocacy we can think about because you do get reimbursed. You pay your taxes and then you get reimbursed the amount that is above where your taxes got frozen. And so it is kind of a cash payout with some money back later. So, it's a less than ideal. It's It's better than not having the reimbursement at all. Right. >> I agree at three. The freeze, the anchor, and >> the anchor. Yeah. And then state New Jersey, which they just made some changes in the new governor's budget to reduce the u maximum income for state New
071Jersey. But yes, you can benefit from all of those simultaneously depending on your like eligibility requirements and if you meet those. So, so, so we're working with Randy about this because there there's got to be some kind of cut scene if you got teachers, something in town. I was took my thunder when it come to I live right next to the square, believe me. So, I I see that chit shop, forgive me. And if if we could charge people a lot more because the township employees are up there 5 days before the event, couple days afterwards cleaning up union rate, I get it. overtime. I get it. But we're only charging them $500 for a damn that thing like there on the corner. So >> all the beers that are being sold all along the
072avenue, we should need to we need a search charge of some kind of charge. >> That is not that is unfortunately not allowed. >> That's the a commissioner's name. >> Yeah. The uh an additional tax on alcohol sales is not allowed. An individual town is not allowed to levy those taxes. It's a gift to that that one particular business, right? Who, you know, who owns all the other businesses that survive. >> Yes. There are some constraints, but I do think there's potential there is potential opportunity there and I do think some of that is worth exploring and an additional conversation with the township. >> Are we talking about cutting teachers? Are we now? >> We I mean we are talking about the potential cuts that um Oh, Bob went through as we first started. I'm
073not sure if you were in the room at that point. And >> yeah, so we've already lost 14 teachers and some additional um positions as well throughout the district. Um >> yeah, I'm sorry. >> That's okay. We we have more copies of this, too, so everyone can if you need to. >> Listen, I don't want to see anybody lose their job. Believe me, I'm a union man. 40 years. My daughter taught in the school system. I get it. But um >> we we did something with dotted lines and solid lines to redistribute the number of kids to have even class sizes. Um we may be able to look at that again and reduce one elementary teacher. We school that has three elementary teachers. And I think that we're going to be able to bring that
074section down to two and stay under class size caps which is 25 kids in a class which is you know pretty high amount you know up to third grade. In grade four, five and six cap size goes to 28 and a few cases where pushing 30 were above cap. So the problem with going, you know, too far above cap is that the first quality of education goes down, but the classrooms aren't physically large enough to fit more than this amount of students in the in the classroom. So >> no, I'm sure >> even if the methodology works with the dotted solid line, I still have to be able to get that number of students and guests in the room. Are there salary freezes? No raises. >> Salary on that. >> There is not. We have
075a union contract that we abide by that includes uh what the increases are. >> So we're going to be getting another increase. >> They are. Yep. Contracts like >> So I guess you need that money to pay for that too, right? That is our our costs go up every year. Even with the 2% cap, our costs go up beyond that 2% cap. >> Can I ask who who our insurance who their the insurance person is for like the insurance company or whatever we use? >> Our broker is Brown and Brown. >> Brown. >> Mhm. >> And the insurance is provided by >> Yes. Mar insurance. >> They're located in LA, I believe. Okay, my son-in-law is a very very big up there insurance who does multi-million dollar deals and he's very big up there. Like
076if we ever need any kind of advice, he would be the one to talk to serious. I'm 100% serious in town. >> Dina, you know my Dina her husband anything that million dollar >> again any ideas anything any conversation we should be having >> find a solution >> yeah he takes care of the doctors he takes care of all the baseball team he does everything like he could really help us out he's somebody with insurance and I'm not even kidding you wouldn't have problem with that he's got four sons >> I'm serious about that >> okay uh well I saw Jo. >> Um, >> again, typically we only allow one public comment per person, but we make sure this feels like more of a conversation that we're listening to. I mean so much, you know,
077I know it's not something we do every single time, but like to ask and get questions answered is to me so much more like a positive sort of like relationship building thing, you know, to to understand, you know, like it's very awkward to just like make a proclamation and just have blank face and staring although I know that's part of like, you know, how the board operates stuff. So we appreciate your time. But so I work for a nonprofit too. It's also you pay your debt. Ours is $300 million. So this is Jefferson Health. Um and they are an insurer as well as healthcare provider. So and part of their our deficit is coming from the health insurance end. And again, that's why the costs are being passed on, you know, to all of our
078employees who are also most of the people that they insure. But so costs pass on in that way, but costs pass on in terms of layoffs and costs pass on in terms of uh hiring freezes and costs pass on in terms of uh you know limitations in uh car reasons as well. So that said, like what kind of creative thinking are we doing? I know I've pitched some wild ideas on the side of the river about like let's get rid of the phys department. It's not, you know, it's a glorified recess at this point, which I wholly endorse. My kid loves recess. I mean, sorry, my kid loves Jim. um you know and mostly loves the freedom of it to like engage with his peers and be active and play you know so that play
079part of it is so critical but I don't find that in the so I have had a kid in high school for seven years running that they're learning anything in gym other than playing you know and I did a sort of shallow dive into like seeing like if that is possible because I knew there are mandates about physical education and it didn't seem like there were workers around that if the board were to like sort of like make a provision for it. I forget all the details, but it did seem like there was maybe not like, you know, a well-worn path, but there was potentially a path to eliminate, you know, that that that class, make it be a supervised recess, and then give the kid allow the kids to use their um physical education
080requirement. Yeah, we have explored that in the past. >> Yeah, that there is that's part it's called option two. Option two, right? And we've looked at that few times. It's apply to students that are playing varsity sport in season. Um our market period lineup was seasoned. Um it might be worth another look. >> And we have >> no no idea >> and but we still have the health requirement that state required. So we still have that for the other um portion of the year >> um in addition to meet all the state mandated requirements. >> Only the physical education teacher is offering that >> um Javi I just want to recognize your point about the like dialogue and conversation back and forth. I have I have taken a lot of privilege in this. I'm actually
081not governing this meeting appropriately. Um well well >> in this in the structure of how they're supposed to be governed uh this meeting as a special meeting is slightly different which allows for some of that flexibility that we don't typically see in kind of a regular meeting when we go to planning board meetings all we get told this is not a Q&A this is not what's the purpose >> I know it's tough and this question then they give you more information and you're already answer question. I do I do want to recognize you want to say >> well I just wanted to say yes in a in a special meeting like a special budget meeting last year we had a community forum in auditorium it was the same thing it was two hours it was
082I think I was the last person to leave the room we answered all the questions yeah we're willing to do this as as much as we need to talk to parents >> in the formal meeting that's monthly that's pre-established the year where the board has to take action on items we have to stick to the the rules of public comment it feels very important personal, but that's the rules that we have to play by. >> I do I do want to recognize um that Mrs. Solder wanted to make a comment. I also want to recognize the time we have because our musical is kicking off tonight in 10 minutes. >> And so the the hope is that we can get folks out for folks who are trying to attend that musical. Um but I don't
083want to cut any any other conversation off. So I'm going to turn it over to Mrs. Ser first. >> Okay. So I'll try to be quiet. I just wanted to say that, you know, I recognize, you know, all the difficulties with the property taxes as well. I mean, our home has also gone up by about $2,000 in property taxes. I mean, my husband grumbles at me whenever the tax bill comes in the mail, but, you know, he also recognizes, you know, the situation that we're in. And you know, three of I believe three of the board members who are here tonight don't currently have students in school either. And and also are absorbing these increases. So, you know, we do understand, I mean, you know, it's just a tough balance and, you know, the state
084puts a lot of what you call unfunded mandates on us, which is basically they can say, well, you have to do this, you have to provide this, you have to do this, but that doesn't mean they need to give us more money to be able to do it. So, that puts us in a difficult position. >> Uh, just a note that Dr. Caroline to just say a few words to introduce the musical as he typically does until he will be back. We won't be taking any official action circumstances. >> Can I can I say something >> please? Sure. >> Um I do think it's important to remember that the the fundamental way in which state aid which in fairness, let's be realistic, state aid is still taxes, right? it's coming out of business taxes and
085the the income taxes that we pay here in New Jersey as well. Um, but the way that's divied up with districts, how we figure out what our share of that is going to be is based off of two numbers and it's based off of the income of everybody in town and the property value of everybody in town. Now, the problem with calculating it that way is that as a school district, we have no ability to tap into anybody's income. We can only levy property taxes. And this is the important one, and and a point you've already all made tonight. Property values aren't real money. Mhm. >> Your house goes up in value by $100,000 over a decade. That doesn't mean that you have $100,000. >> Do you know what I mean? And yet that's how
086we calculate the taxes. So it's it is incredibly unfair. And the and the only path out of that is through traffic. I I we can talk about pilots. We can partner with the town. We can we we will continue as we do because as Kelly has already said like the last thing any of us want to do is increase taxes. We really don't. Um but the box that we're put in by the state is the box that we're put in and we don't have as many levers as we would like. So, it's it's talking to your representatives in Trenton in the Senate and in the Assembly and the governor's office and trying to get them to fix this problem because the problem is affecting everybody. It's not just a Haden Township issue. >> And and
087if you need help in the advocacy, I would be happy to help you like formulate what you want to say and like figure out who to reach out to. I'm I'm happy to be part of any of that because I spend a lot of time in that realm. So I become I live in Grand Avenue. And so just for perspective, I mostly grew up in Maryland. I lived in Tucson for a while. I have tons of friends in Texas and California, right? I I crush the numbers on Maryland cuz my dad's always like, "Oh, your property taxes are terribly high, but then like he paid 100 bucks a month for trash pickup >> that I don't pay." He goes, "Well, I pay my taxes." Things like that. And when you look at the Maryland income
088tax brackets and rates, people pay more than we do in New Jersey. I know people say, "Oh, the income taxes are terrible in New Jersey." But really, there everywhere says income taxes are terrible. Maryland, you pay more based on more than they do. So, they send that money back to the school districts. So, I feel your you should talk to Trenton because really it's because it's a Trenton problem. You tax income. because we all make so much more money than techn right uh in Tucson Arizona taxes are very low but the uh sales tax was 8%. or it was five and two and a half and a half depending on like all the the states and towns all through the state the county and town and there Tucson Unified School District in 1997 property taxes
089in Tucson were outrageous in the city of Tucson because they got no money from the state. So like I I feel like I feel your your the pain of this is really a trend problem because like they're the only people who have the capacity to tap into the money that they think that we have and to allocate it fairly to the people who have no money. Uh so I I don't have anything really to say about the budget except that it was complicated and this year is basically a loss. I mean it's going to be what it's going to be in looking at it. There is some question about like I am interested in negotiating with the insurers because my employer we have the same plan we pay about the same up a little bit
090but they kept a ton of things out of the prescriptions that that they so I'll probably the FDA or somebody I don't know who does that negotiation and how we back that >> thank you and this belt is all over the negotiations with our insurance broker and how we can >> make adjustments and what adjustments >> exist as options for us right now versus in the future. So it's been on that. Uh, we'll do stuff and then >> I mean, none of us want our taxes to go up and and to say you you by voted for something or chose something, but we also have to put into perspective, we're talking about the children of our town, too. And we don't want to decimate everything that they receive at the same time. We want to
091find that balance. you know, we can't say, well, we're going to get rid of 15 teachers and have 45 kids in a classroom that don't fit in the classroom. So, we have to kind of find that balance. And that's what we've been talking about when Bob and Jen and Shorter present to us and the other administrators of each school like this is as small as we can go with with this, you know, thing. this is how much we can take away from those kids because all of your kids did benefit from a program at this school. And I want you to think about that, too, because someone paid for your kids at some time that they they were senior citizens who paid for your kids. We don't want to tax you to the top. We
092definitely don't want to do that. But we also need to think about the education of the kids in this town. >> But you are taxing up to the top. I mean the top that you can this year, right? % >> we didn't make a decision about anything. >> We haven't voted any voted any >> anything we approved tonight again is tentative and can be changed. >> So if I pay 54% and you're going to add another six there's 60%. 60% of my property tax not technically how it worked out. >> What's left? You get $3,780 from me. From me. I don't even bring that home in social security. I don't even bring $2,000 in. And my insurance is going up 17%. It It just You just can't keep You're trying to get blood from a
093stone and you just don't I don't have it. I'm taxed out. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm taxed. And And can someone from Trenton be at the next May 7th meeting? >> We are. >> That is unlikely. >> We can we can ask we can certainly invite >> and we will we will invite. >> Absolutely. But from the residents exactly how we feel not just you know I'm sure they assume we're all not happy but what the facts and figures that we have to put out and we have to pay >> that's we have to >> yeah that meeting will be >> if you guys sorry I saw your hand >> well uh you know I know Trenton is the same as Washington DC but um here's a picture of Melania Trump standing
094next to a humanoid AI powered robot and um she says more children should be educated by humanoid educators. So maybe that's the solution that's better by the federal government. >> I don't have to have a lot of you know I don't >> I think to to Barb's point about the pilots you know that the we we don't I don't want to raise uh sales taxes. I don't want to raise income taxes. I want, you know, business interest to pay their fair share, you know, and the businesses that we support in our town especially that or or that take advantage of our town resources and don't, you know, contribute, you know, to we're asking that you stop pretending that the money isn't already here. The money is here. Well, I mean, >> the money is here.
095The pilot has been signed. >> More developments happening. if they were if they were to get you know and I think that's my fear too is like once once the taxes are raised the taxes are raised then that's the new normal and we're never going to go back we're never going to get a tax increase right so even if money comes from pilots or we're able to like like this is this is the new baseline and that was the sort of like motivation to keeping it right it's just saying that like there's got to be at least a place where your expectations you know where we feedback is something that you can rely on something that's relatively in sync with what you know the rate of inflation is for us, right? So, can't the taxpayers
096can't we vote on a new cap if this like you're like 2% isn't realistic? That's never going to cut it anymore. >> Yeah. But the legislature deter determines that. >> Is that was that a local law or is that a state lawyer? Yeah, it's a state law. >> Jerry, I saw your hand. >> If you guys are voting and the these guys aren't here, >> are their votes taken into account? How's this working? >> No. Uh, we just need a quorum. So, we need five board members in order to know how this is going to go. >> All right. Thank you. I'll see you the retrospect. You should really go with Kelly and do an article cuz she's really helping out here. But guys, I already you know how this book's going to go if
097you watch last. See you. Um, Mrs. G. Yes, I know we're not going to take action on voting on the budget until Dr. Pero is back and introducing the musical, but for what you have prepared this evening, can you remind us what you have prepared for the county? >> So, I have a couple different scenarios I have. We can do 2%. >> I didn't know what >> you you are. You are ready to submit >> ready. I'll be submitting the budget tomorrow. >> I have everything prepared. I can go in and change it. I have 2% 3.5 4.5 and six. >> Okay. >> I wanted to ask since the represent did an article previously on our last meeting that talked about all the potential reductions like are we allowed to discuss that? Yes. Yeah, we
098can discuss the team. We just we just can't discuss like individual specific positions. >> I think agree. I think it would be helpful to let the public know what we will lose given the various tiers of reduction. Yeah, I don't I don't have my sheet for >> So tier one was um not replacing or retiring math position and >> Okay, thank you. Tier one was a non-replacement of um retire a retirement >> um included in that uh sorry and that that non-replacement that then as the baseline with the deficit would be if we did nothing else that is a 6% tax increase. >> That's the yes that's where it balances out. Then we have a balanced budget 6% and we do not replace that retiring educator but but not >> well there is more in
099tier one. >> So and these are all potential and we could do a variety of different things. These were just thoughts um you know brainstorming uh there could be a reduction in force um with an elementary teacher as Dr. Carol mentioned earlier with Saladin um down line >> that was in the tier one. That was the second tier one. That was tier tier two potential reduction that we discussed last week. Um there could be a potential reduction in force um with an additional elementary teacher. Um with the little asteris there, anything could change over the summer as we get more kindergarten enrollments um and things like that as we get a very hefty um enrollment push in the summer. every summer. Uh reduction in force um support staff care professionals, non-contracted after school or supplemental
100stipens along with um substitute teachers at high school and middle school levels. So that's tier one that I spoke of earlier. And then in addition, we could do all those things that I just mentioned. >> And in tier two, some some of those we don't know because enrollment can change. make that decision. But then those combined >> would bring the tax levy increase down to 4.5%. >> Mhm. >> If all those reductions were in place. >> Mhm. >> And in addition to that, tier three um we could look at high school electives um and potentially we could also look at elementary substitute teachers. So, so that then adding those in could get us somewhere between 3.5% and 4%. >> I think I think I remember the four. >> So then if we wanted to go
101deeper than that, it would be even more cuts than those named to get below like a 3 and a half or a 4% tax increase. >> So those are some of the the things we're weighing and it doesn't have to be those things. Um and obviously we don't talk about um individuals in this session in public. Um it could be these things or it could be you know another approach with another you know department or program or something like that. So in order to get to the number so we have some additional we could make additional cuts. We could also see some potential cost savings through changes in the health insurance increase, uh the shared services with the town, >> other conversations with um financial sharing with the town. >> Um >> the selling of
102the board office, we can do that. Uh the timeline will be unknown, right? We again we have to raise an RFP that's required by law, right? >> Uh in order to get a commercial real estate broker to then do the work for us. So those are options on the table. We're exploring all of those. Again, trying to find as many cost reductions as we can, prioritizing first the ones that have minimal impact on students education. >> So of these possibilities, is people sitting here have any suggestions? >> The board office. >> So we will explore. >> For sure. It's going to be it's got to be worth it, right? You can only get >> Well, right now everything's so high that that could go for a lot of money. >> It could. It could. There
103is the potential there. >> Excuse me. Uh, forgive me. Everybody's doing this throughout the whole nation. Is there any way I And forgive me. I don't know this. Is there any way to make the teacher pay a certain amount? >> Prescription. Prescription. >> They already do. >> They do. They don't lie. >> I mean, it's it's it's the way it is today. >> I know. They do. And we are like we are bound by what we can allowed to charge them. >> Yeah. I don't know. >> Yep. But they do our and our teachers do contribute. >> I mean our teachers fantastic in this district. But yes, we we are trying to find every possible solution. >> Yep. >> So again, we appreciate all of the suggestions and like have we thought through them fully
104even if we've like explored them previously like the physical education and health that was brought up. We have looked at that previously. We haven't looked at it yet in this cycle and so it is a good reminder that we should explore that again. So we appreciate the ideas. >> I think they can increase the percentages of the contributions. >> I mean when that contract's up >> when the contract's up which is when when the chapter 44 sunsets that >> that is the first >> December 202 >> when is that up? >> December 2027. Oh, so that is the first opportunity >> to the pensions. >> Yes. >> It has it has been >> but I mean the teachers are paying more taxes and they're they're doing the same thing we're all doing too, right? >>
105You know, we need to try to get more funding from somewhere else. >> Yeah. I mean really it is like the cost cutting can all we can find very small solutions in cost cutting and in just locally what we have at our disposal and available to us as like potential options. Uh we can't find anything like really large for any long-term change that is where it's like we got to do that's trend trend is the answer for that. There is also like yes are there ways to generate revenue. It's like and we're all we're all hurting every single taxpayer, every single person, every single industry in this well there are probably some industries that are doing pretty great. Health insurance is doing pretty great, but a lot of businesses and industries, higher education, nonprofits are
106struggling. I again I was at the Assembly Budget Committee yesterday and it was just story after story after story of programs that are being cut, services that are being cut. um folks who are like really trying to continue providing great excellent services and education and other things. And so a lot of people are hurting, a lot of industries are hurting. If we can't identify new revenue opportunities or redistribution of revenue that the state would get on board with, we're going to be in trouble. One of the things I just did, I I just did as a member of the Southern New Jersey Central Labor Council, I made up a resolution to be presented to our legislators to floating the idea of possibly putting a sur tax on all these deliveries from all these delivery trucks.
107Uber, Uber, Uber, all of them >> because they're the ones that are helping to destroy our streets and give us all these potholes. >> And my feeling was, you know, I submitted a resolution to put a search on all these deliveries, Amazon, FedEx, whatever it is. You all see them on your streets constantly. Delivery, delivery, delivery. Mayor Parker in Philadelphia just did that to fund the schools. >> She put a dollar sir tax on each delivery for or Uber and Uber and Lift but and a quarter on all of the other delivery. >> Well, you'll get speaking to your legislators mention it. Say, "Hey, this guy, Mr. Kendall, you know, suggested this this guy from Haden Township." So, >> everybody knows you, John. >> Well, okay, good. Well, I I I I put that in.
108We discussed it at our meeting and so our president has a legislative contact to present this to the legislators because in my view there's millions of dollars in revenue >> in putting the sir tax on all these deliveries. >> Yeah. So please support that if you get speaking or write to your legislators >> and we'll include that in the options that we provide as like potential revenue to offset some of the the costs and the needs that we have to assembly. >> Yeah, those are great. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And I think something else that we're kind of struggling with is so technically there is the 2% cap. I know it doesn't seem like it, but last year was like a special thing that the state did because basically they see that the formula isn't
109working and and schools were running out of money. So they gave like this one time chance for people to increase their taxes up to adequacy which for us they said well your district can increase taxes 30%. Obviously we didn't want to increase 30% so it ended up being like 15%. Um this year our cap is still technically 2%. But there is something written into the formula that which is called a healthcare adjustment which means if your health care goes up health care costs go up significantly then you can go above the 2% cap of it to try and recoup some of that cost. There's also one for transportation costs and but it's basically a one-year thing that you can do. And so we don't know what's going to happen next year. like Bob said, um
110yeah, like Bob said, you know, given that the state is like, well, you're, you know, $3 million of flow adequacy, which I know doesn't isn't realistic to the community we have in town, but, you know, if nothing changes with the formula, we can probably expect our state aid might get cut again. I mean, but then, you know, we might only be able to raise taxes 2%. So, something, you know, we're struggling with, I'm struggling with, is so let's say, you know, we only increased taxes 2% this year, but and we cut like a million dollars worth made a million dollars worth of cuts. Now, next year, the state could come back and married again, and we can't use the healthc care adjustment next year. It's only a one-year adjustment based on your increase in costs
111over that one year. And so then we just made a million dollars in cuts and then we'll have a bigger deficit next year and we might only be able to increase another 2%. And we won't have any other options. and then we need to make another million dollars in cuts. So that's kind of something we're struggling with too is not just this year, but how do we ensure that we're not in a bigger mess next year where we're like Collingswood where they're shutting down one of their elementary schools because they can't afford to keep it open anymore. >> I mean, you know, we've had discussions about things like that, too. I mean, you know, we don't know. And and they're still increasing their taxes 6% this year and shutting down to other districts. >> I'm
112sorry. >> I was just >> Yeah, but who says that it won't be 6% next year, too? >> Well, we don't know. We don't know. >> Also true. Yeah. >> And do we know like that number seems high 25% like based on what the average increases in healthcare are like it's more like 15% wise are we going with 25 to kind of maximize that that no >> that's what we were told by >> he said that was the projection but I mean we are thinking that's going to could come in below that because other litigates that are similar that group have gotten >> right >> more information >> the the potential Well, to be Debbie Downer, but a lot of what I heard yesterday was the projections that are coming out for next year's increases
113are like a 60% increase. >> 6. >> That's some reports that have been coming out project 6% >> I know I know some health insurance reform more broadly seems like it needs to be an area. So, and again, there are objections. I don't know where these reports are coming from. State mandates. >> It's ridiculous. >> Yeah, it's it's a little bit absurd. So, we you know, that information has been put out there. I heard that from a few folks yesterday, though I haven't seen those reports. >> All right. I do want to move us to uh a vote on the budget. So, as Mrs. Gald said, she's prepared multiple options. a 2% tax increase budget, three and a half% I think everything on this chart >> and 6%. So >> we are ready to submit
114any of those options to the county. Again, any decision we make, any vote we take tonight is tentative. We will continue to work on the budget regardless of where we land. I am happy to share where I would like to land first if that's helpful to the rest of the board, but I'm also happy to listen first. You you let me know what feels best for you. >> I'm happy to go either way. I'll just reiterate my position from last week, which is if were were me, I would go for it. I have to just mention what Chris was discussing. I've been on the board for 34 years. I've seen budgets go up and down, state aid. You know, when I first started, Governor Florio was governor and it had the QEA, the Quality Education
115Act, where a sister, a nun, sued the state. Okay, then you had the Abbott versus Burke decision. Okay, where certain districts they said weren't getting enough money. Okay, I lived through all this stuff over the years. Okay. One of the things that I always have thought of is the fact that somebody's child is going to be shortch changed. No matter what's no matter what we decide, somebody's little girl or little boy is going to be short changed. Okay? Uh, that's the way it goes cuz I don't think there's anything right now that's being wasted. I think all of our teachers are teaching to their fullest capacity. Uh, you know, it's it it's like what? Well, what do you cut? Because you're going to hurt some child. Some child isn't going to get what they need
116fully. So back when we used to vote on budgets in the town when the whole town used to vote on budgets this town except for once and I'm talking maybe in I don't know 15 20 years till we started not voting on budgets the people of Haden Township always pass the budget always. Okay. And that meant to me that they support the schools and they support education. And that's one of the reasons why the property values are high because people want to live here. I've lived here for 68 years my whole life. Okay? You know, I had a house built here. I paid I paid these taxes. My grandparents have my greatgrandparents over the years. And the people of Haden Township by and large have always supported education. They've always supported the schools. Okay? And
117so I have over the years as a board member looked at, you know, I don't want to hurt anybody's little girl or little boy, you know, and and uh Okay. So, so what's the difference between >> an increase of 6% or the two? >> Okay. And what you'll pay per year is $18 a month. >> That's $450 something. Exactly. So, it's $18 a month. So, you know, I mean, you can look at it like, well, you know, some people say, well, that's not that much money, $18 a month, and we should fund the schools and take care of the kids. And then other people say, "Oh, man, I'm at my limit. It's hard." I've heard it all. For 34 years, I've heard everything. So, it's a very it's a very difficult thing to do and
118we rely on our staff to tell us, well, you know, I can get by on this much money. We can get by. We can open the schools in September. Okay. But what are the kids going to lose? You know, that's the whole thing. What are the kids going to lose? What's this little girl going to lose and this little boy going to lose? You know, your kids went through the school district. My kids went through the school district. They all did very well. So it becomes almost for me like a moral decision, you know, it's like well you know it and going by the fact that they always pass the budget. >> So So John, where are you? >> So >> what are your taxes you pay right now? >> What what are my taxes?
119>> John, where are you? Where are you? >> They're all I'm sorry. Sorry, I want to move us to where are you leaning in budget you would like? >> Well, I I have always leaned not to short change the children%. >> So, is that 6%? >> I'm leaning the 6%. >> Because it's somebody's little boy and somebody's little girl. Well, I guess first, how confident are we that healthcare is going to come in lower than we? >> We don't know. >> We know it's not going to come in higher because this person's job is to give us the seal. >> Yes, that's correct. And he's currently working to get that number down. That's good from today. >> So if we voted for 6% tonight, would the healthc care came in at let's say 20%. Would
120we be able to reconsider at a later meeting? >> Absolutely. >> Any We're not making a final decision tonight. Everything is tentative. We can change anything that we approve tonight. We can cut more things out. We can add things back in. >> Correct. Not until we adopt budget on May. >> So we have we have opportunity whether we approve 6% or whether we approve lower to change it either way up or down. >> So my vote would probably be for 6% with the caveat that if the healthcare comes in lower that we look at it again and see if there's any opportunity to lower the percent. They're not scared. >> Yeah. Do you want to share? >> As a teacher, I know where I lie. I mean, my taxes stay. They really do. I I
121pay a lot in taxes. We made a lot of improvements during co and that hit us very hard. Um my husband was unemployed for a long time and hit me very hard that because I was a sole bread winner as a teacher who does not make much money and who does pay a huge amount for my healthcare. Um I choose a very high health care premium because my I had a child. my high health care premium saved me last year um major health issues that I had and covered my hospital bills that were upwards of almost $500,000. So as a teacher I I can't in my mind hurt these kids. I mean I watched what my children got. I watched that in 2010 we cut 40 teachers. We've never made that up and we keep
122cutting more teachers. We lost a principal at the high school. We've lost so much that these kids that your children got and you know what they got and you know what they got compared to what these kids are getting today. >> What are they going to lose? Give us a list. We we already covered that. >> We did cover that. We >> teachers the programs that we've lost. We have Magma Math to help kids. It's a computer program because we don't have the teachers to teach them what they need. We are talking education 25 years ago is not what it is today. A classroom with 30 kindergarteners is not manageable to when it was 30 when my oldest son went because there are so many more needs from these kids since co. There are so
123many different anxieties and and health issues and issues with social emotional things and we need to make sure that we give these kids the best that we can in the world that we're living in today which is much different than 20 years ago. And I know you can crucify me all you want that I'm saying that as a teacher at 6% it's going to kill me in my taxes too. I am over 60 years old and yes it hurts. It hurts big time. >> And you're in a two inome household though, right? >> My husband makes 40,000 a year. >> There you go. >> I make 80,000 but at 25 live on it >> in this day and age live on it. I have a kid still in college. So >> I'm paying three tuition.
124Can we can we please keep down the comments as >> I mean like so for me to express my opinion other people have a chance to do that but you're telling me I don't have the opportunity to express >> you do but you keep pointing the fingers to me over here I know all of our kids grow up >> I know but I'm saying the education your children got is much different than what these kids are getting >> all right all right change of we are going to end this back and forth this is not enough rightfully say that that you judge me, which is not fair. We have been elected. >> You're sitting there pointing a finger and that my child >> You're going to vote for 6% and then the next We're going
125to have to take a recess. We're taking a recess. We are stopping this conver we are stopping this conversation. We are stopping this conversation. Recess. >> We'll be back in 10 minutes. ridiculous. >> All right, we are going to bring ourselves back into session from our brief recess. So, thank you all. Uh we're going to continue the conversation because we do need to uh vote. We are required to submit a budget to the county tomorrow. Uh I have not yet had a chance to say where Oh, Marie, I'm so sorry. >> That's okay. Um I just want to finish quick. If I had had the opportunity to finish, I was going to say I agreed with Kristen that if the numbers come down lower with insurance, that was where I would fall back into 5%.
126But I also want to reiterate that I am a teacher who is in the schools daytoday and I see the impact of cuts and things that hurt children and John had said it very eloquently and you listened to John say it >> you listen keep it focused >> Kristen say it and I was not given the opportunity and that's that's why I got upset. Okay. I don't like being judged that I am hurting the public because it hurts me as well. Either way, hurting the kids or hurting our taxes, it's it's hurtful. There's no good option. It's Solomon in the baby who gets it. And I will say I want to go with 6% tonight, but if things change and we get funding in other ways or money comes back through healthcare or we find
127these great options that people bring up that we can look at, then I would go with a lower tax rate. We have an opportunity in 207. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um so where I am leaning uh tonight is a little bit different than last week and from the time in Trenton the conversation tonight the continued conversations we've been having as a board and with the admin team I actually am in a different spot from the rest of the board. I would recommend again it's tentative everything could change uh and likely wherever we land tonight will change to some degree when we approve a budget May 7th. Um, but I would personally recommend that we submit at 3.5 and sprint on cost savings and continue to exhaust every option on cost savings. Again, knowing that
128if we can't find them, we can adjust that. But partly, I think it puts the pressure on for like every every every effort. Again, I feel confident we are trying to do that now, but it keeps that pressure on until we approve the final budget. So, that's why I land there. I will support whatever decision the board uh and the majority of the board tonight wants to make uh in order to move this vote forward, but that's where I currently am. Any additional thoughts, comments? I know we had some time to pause in our recess. Anything else folks want to share? I know this is hard. We are, as a board, we are clearly struggling. We're not entirely sure exactly where to go. Uh, and we're weighing kind of all of the different components and
129the challenges that are faced on all sides in this decision. Uh this is the hardest part of our job is making these choices and knowing that no matter where we land, someone is going to hurt as a result of where we land. Uh so it is certainly a less than ideal situation that we are facing and I recognize that and I know this is emotionally charged um for all of us because we feel deeply and very strongly. Um but we do have to move forward again a tentative budget tonight to submit to the county to just meet our timeline requirements. Uh so we need to approve item 4.1 which is the budget. We are currently right now not fully in agreement on the number to include and so Mrs. called. I believe we should just
130>> What are you going to suggest? Suggestion. Who are you going to suggest? >> I I was going to suggest we go around one more time to land on a number. >> I think I think in tough times we have to stick together. When I say we include tough times, let's let's try this have something unanimous, right? 25 members here, right? Let's try to get five vote, please. Right. If let's talk it out. It's not superintendent's job to say what the tax level should be. We do the best we can on the district, whatever you guys decide. I really much like a 50. It's only budget. I don't want this to be divided in paper in the community that we need to be together. We advance cards here. We didn't feel the cost. All right,
131let's talk this out a little bit more. I wanted to see the school play, too. It's playing for three more nights. All right, we can we can talk this out for 10 minutes and we'll get there for you. Right. >> Well, I think uh like I said, morally speaking, I have to live with myself. Sure, I love lower taxes. Like I said, my family's been paying taxes in this town since 1923. Okay. So, when you want to talk about taxes paid, you know, my family is one of the ones that has supported this town all these years. And of course, I don't want my taxes to go up or anybody else's, of course. But when you look at what children are going to lose, what kind of school district are we running here? You know,
132this is the great Haden Township, the wonderful Haden Township, the terrific Haden Township. And it's the place people flock to because of the schools. They come here because of the schools. And I can't short change the little the little kids, high school kids, little kids. I I can't do it because there's something children aren't going to get. and and we've already relied on you to give us the scenario, okay, which is like the basic smallest amount of money, you know, you can deal with and still run the run the school. But does but but it's how we run the schools that's important, you know, because as Kristen pointed out, then what about next year? We cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut
133cut cut cut, you're already cutting into the bone and the kids aren't getting what they need. Okay, and and and at 6% you're probably still cutting a math teacher. That's so you're going into the bone. So, you know, I'm with 6% because I can't morally look at myself in the mirror and say, you know, I'm doing everything I can for the children of this town. Okay. Unless I go for the least possible hurt of the children. That's how >> Yeah, I was out of the room introducing the school plan when we talked about the possible scenarios that presented to the court. or maybe more, but preliminarily with my administrative team, that's what we came up with as various tiers. >> There's a it's a math teacher that's retiring. This is retiring. And I'm not convinced
134there's going to be a math candidate. That's that's why that's the low hanging fruit, so to speak. Um is that we were at a meeting a couple weeks ago with the teachers, the dean of the largest teachers college in South Jersey, and she reported that there's 500 candidates graduating from this university. And primarily all of them are early childhood elementary visit. I don't think there's any more than three or four total for all subject areas high school content certified teachers. So I'm just not convinced we're going to be able to be able to replace Mr. McDorman, which is why that's the obvious one. Uh it's not that I want to come to that. >> Uh I do just want to be careful um on the moral argument. I understand like that's your moral leaning. That
135does not mean that somebody leans a different way does not have morals is immoral. We have we place value in different areas and different priorities and I want to make sure that that's known. We're not linking as a board's moral judgments about the decisions. >> I'm talking about myself. >> I know. >> I'm talking about looking at myself in the >> I understand that. I just wanted to make sure that was clear broadly. >> Uh so so Mr. Kendall you are saying does that it sounds like even with this tentative budget you are not open to considering a lower number to submit to the county. >> Not at this juncture but we're going to talk about it more like you said there's other meetings where we can adjust things >> but tonight to vote >>
136right now tonight I'm at 6% You already know. >> I mean, like I said, if we get that break of the healthcare, >> the four and a half would be okay. Yeah, I said the same thing >> if we get the break. But we got to decide tonight what's going to be. >> So it's either six or four or two or whatever. >> I believe based on the meeting we had last week 4 and 12% no impact on educational program. We're losing >> at at four at four and a half% those from last week >> at 4 and 12% >> tier one. I'm very confident now as long as more kids don't move in for that section that not that solid zone that we can produce one elementary teaching staff. Um the IEPs right now
137don't dictate the same amount of pay needs. So that looks okay. the after school non-contracted stipens, non-contracted stipens, that's a loss for extracurricular activities, but that's there. Um, and then eliminating substitute teachers. You know, are we in an era of education where kids don't be a substitute teacher at the high school level because they can come into spaces like this and next door in an auditorium and just have a study hall instead of a substitute teacher. you know, pair that with some likelihood that, you know, we're going to come in a little bit south of 25%. I see your rationale. I will say I see your rationale. There's a couple asterisks next to those because kids move in, I change >> and and and in the vein of this is just a preliminary budget. >>
138That's where my head is. That's my that's my argument. or the extracurriculars. Could we consider implementing an activities fee for some other districts? >> Yeah, sure. We could definitely consider that. The conversations we've had in the past is that we bring in very little money. >> So, it doesn't really offset any like significant costs for us. So, it's an additional uh cost to families without significant cost savings to the district, which is why we haven't pursued it in the past. So it could it could be higher to be more significant. >> Yeah. And I remember on the tier sheet it didn't seem like that reducing his would be a huge money saving. But you know looking at 4% if you were to go that way that's fine but the two other asteris brought to she
139uh tonight is I think or brought it >> everybody wants to hear this but I think we more supported elementary music and counseling. We cut those two positions a few years ago and the schedules are are bandated together with just enough time. If we're not we're really worried about therapeutic supports and the music program is hanging together staff-wise by we've been running with a consultant for two years and a very overextended elementary music teacher who's got a pretty demanding schedule that I understand why I don't think it's totally fair. So I'm trying to do something there to help help those kids use >> and multi lingual >> and yell out yellow. So it's >> so there's a couple but I but I think we're okay like these balls are there. This is normal. We don't
140have to decide tonight. >> What we just need to decide tonight is a number that can change, right? And that's where some of this we have to continue the work through April all the way up through May, you know, 7th to make a final determination. It's hard to get into what ifs, you know, sitting on March 26th. I I would certainly tonight feel more comfortable with four and a half. Um I I can get behind six to again because the tentative budget if I have to. >> Well, we also are missing four board members, >> right? But they're not voting on this budget tonight. >> Exactly. But what I just want to bring up that we could choose four and a half, two, whatever it is. And then when we have the full board next
141meeting, this whole thing can change. >> Correct. >> And we'll also have more, >> right? I mean, we're only two weeks out from when we were given our budget numbers. So, we've been scrambling to get something turned back around on the timeline uh that we're required to, which is by tomorrow. We haven't we haven't had a lot of time to work through all the particulars yet. So, we will be taking advantage of that over the next five weeks or so. >> Pick a number and call for question just to see if we can It's not 5 hours. to see if we can get number >> I would prefer if we could all get behind 4 and 12% for tonight as a budget. >> All right. Uh can I get a motion to approve item 4.1?
142>> So >> at 4 and a half%. Yeah. >> Move. >> Sorry. >> Um, Mr. Co. >> Yes. >> Miss Desi. >> Yes. >> Mr. Pel. >> No. >> Yes. with the Yeah, we can increase >> that. Miss Hinkle. >> Yes. >> So, we only have four votes. >> Did I? >> So, by majority, >> so you have no you have no majority. So, you don't vote again. >> Yeah, let's check the policy. I think it's a majority of the members present to vote. >> Okay. I'm pretty sure that >> but let's double check the policy. >> This is how the sausage is made. >> It's it's it's not easy. This is not easy. >> You vote this party because every year it's our third consecutive year without about us our ability to show the
143community what the future future holds. >> Yes. First year when they took all that money. >> This is why we get paid so >> yeah took everything. Well, you had a majority. >> Wait, we just are double checking the policy. I want to make sure, >> right? Just to make sure we're following our policy properly. >> Are you looking? >> Yeah. Thanks. was once you had a forum the majority >> we're just making sure we're just making sure >> because some some things are not just the yes >> majority of the people there probably the majority of the board. So that's why I just want to be want to be short or unless you all go home and drink. >> It's not the end of this. >> Uhhuh. Okay, go ahead. It's the majority of
144the present. So, the budget passes at 4 and a half%. All right. Uh, let me just double check our agenda. Make sure anything That's the democratic way to vote. >> It is. Uh, all right. Um, we've had a lot of conversation and dialogue this evening, which I appreciate. Thank you all for being so open and transparent. >> We appreciate everything. Thank you everybody. >> And again, we know this is hard. We're going to be continuing uh we will continue to find every possible cost savings avenue to continue pursuing advocacy efforts. Again, if folks are interested in being more involved in advocacy with our legislators and you want some guidance, direction, language, please feel free to reach out to me um directly and uh we're going to continue this conversation again over the next 5 weeks
145and advocacy will continue far longer than that as well because you know this is a longer issue, not just a short-term budget challenge. >> Uh Dr. Carol, any last >> I'd like to thank the community for coming out and for hanging with us tonight. Uh these games aren't always easy. Um we have to make sure that uh you know that we mindful volunteers here just people have thought about gut feelings and finances bring out the strongest of emotions and we do the best we can to make it work. Have my word on that. If you have ideas I'm welcome to hear them. Thank you for a tough night but important night oversh adjustment number. We'll have the health candidates uh increase in our payment. We'll have that number on. Um we may not have the
146list of the you know the total you remember action plus something plus something but the final night that we'll have the whole thing is May 7th >> and you'll have the whole thing souped and nuts and again be able to ask any questions and on May 7th we'll be able to change again. >> Uh April 16th will be a structured formal meeting of this board. May 7th is when we will approve the budget. That will be a special meeting. >> April 16th will be here. May 7th, if we anticipate a larger crowd, we'll move to the auditorium or the cafeteria. >> Hopefully, it won't be the >> I get a motion to adjourn. >> Motion to adjourn. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you all. Right.