001Thank you. We're back uh at the Tuesday, May 13th, 2025 meeting of the Hop Unifi Free School District Board of Education. Kindly rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. Pledge allegiance. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Number four on the agenda is superintendent's update. Dr. Murphy. Thank you, Mr. Bar. Uh, yeah, I have a few updates to share with the community. Uh, first off, I just want to thank Mr. and Mrs. Augusta. Our bellies are full from exec session. Thank you so much for for dinner tonight. We all really appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. In student news, uh our junior girls uh junior girls basketball player Alexa Fortune was recently named
002all state honorable mention by the New York New York State sports writers. Congratulations to Alexa. Uh second unified basketball season is underway. Uh and the team had their home opener last week in front of a a loud and enthusiastic crowd at the high school. Also had the I was in attendance with many of the people who are up here and uh throughout the high school. Also at the middle school. I can't recall if we had a board meeting uh since the middle school unified team, but that was unbelievably exciting and uh tremendous to be in attendance for that. Uh so, thank you to all uh of uh my colleagues who make that happen. I know that the kids really enjoy it. Um and so we have some tremendous momentum there. This week, uh we will
003be meeting with News 12. This is pretty exciting to begin filming a piece on Michael Alto as a News12 scholar athlete. So, tremendous news there about Michael. Those of you who have seen him play know that he's just an unbelievable uh baseball player, but uh I've gotten to know him in my class visits with Mr. White Cross. Just a tremendous young man. So, congratulations to Michael. [Applause] Additionally, Michael will be receiving the Scope Nick Dillis Memorial Scholarship at the Section 11 athletic director's lunchon this Thursday for his outstanding work in the classroom, community, and on the baseball field. Next, the spring regular season will be concluding this week. Uh, and so the postseason's about to start, so please come out and support our teams uh in the playoffs. Uh, congratulations to students Megan Barry, Hannah
004Horton, Serena Nuran, and Jacob Wolitz. They have each earned the New York State Senate Youth Leadership Recognition Award. This statewide program recognizes and celebrates exceptional students who demonstrate uh potential as future leaders through their academic excellence and leadership in school activities. Uh, congratulations to those students. Also, just exciting news at the high school. Our vocational classroom in the high school recently received uh all brand new appliances. Uh the students in that class were so excited about this and it allows for a new and improved Eagle Brew coffee shop at the high school. Those students uh take uh coffee orders throughout the high school. It's part of the life skills curriculum. So, uh just thank you to Dr. Bilski, Mr. White Horse, Dr. Eastman, all who made that happen. And then just lastly, I'd like to
005um share that uh next week uh on the 21st, I'll be meeting in this room with members of the board, central office, administrators, teachers, parents. We have a group of about 50 or 60 who are coming together to talk about our strategic plan, which is our roadmap uh roadmap for the next five years. thinking about hop hawk 2030 as kind of our headline. Uh so thank you to the board for again giving up their time and and all of those who are volunteering to come that night uh to work together collaboratively to help to define our vision as uh represented through that strategic plan. Thank you. Number five on the agenda are our recognitions, awards, presentations and adoption of minutes. 5C on the agenda is adoption of minutes from the business meeting and budget adoption
006of the board of education on April 22nd, 2025. Mr. Screo makes a motion. I second. Any discussion? All those in favor? 70. 5A is recognitions and awards our 2024 2025 natural helper program. Uh the recognitions will be presented by Joe Whitehorst and uh area 12 director for New York State's NYSBA. I forget what he exactly right now. My apologies. Nisma. Uh our 12 area 12 director Kathy Romano. All right. Thank you, Mr. Bar and Dr. Murphy and the board and all central office for allowing me to come tonight to introduce simply to introduce Miss Kathy Romano. She's our NISBA area 12 director. Um and she comes up here. She's going to present an award to an organization uh that is so important to Hop High School and the whole the whole school district and will
007recognize one of the best people to ever walk the halls of Hop High School. Our natural helpers program is well established in the high school and it is made up of an amazing group of students who serve as peer leaders and discuss important issues in our high school. For decades, Mrs. Shannon Griffin has served our high school community and built this program to what it is today. Now, before Mrs. Romano comes up, I'd like to personally congratulate Mrs. Griffin on this amazing honor and to thank our learners and future leaders who took time out of their busy schedules to be here tonight as well. Uh, looking around, I did see uh Jacobs is here. Jacob Wman, um Corey Pillo, making sure I don't miss anyone that came in. I saw Jenna and Matt Avera, Jake
008Peret, Wyatt Zero, um and I know Avery Wilcox and Payton Klesa, I know you were planning to come. I'm not sure if you're watching live, but hopefully um there's many others that are part of the organization that couldn't make it. Um but it's such a big group and an important group in the high school. Um so now without further ado, I'm now going to stand here and hold up a banner. Um, I'm gonna introduce Mrs. Kathy Romano. So, good evening everyone. Um, NISBA, New York State School Boards Association has 12 areas and I happen to represent one of the 12. I represent the Suffach County uh group of schoolboard members. NISMA has an awards committee that we have a representative um actually the representative changed over Bernardet um McGee Smith who was in Patchog Medford
009um she was on the committee when we made this selection and now uh Eileen Felix of uh Bretwood is is on the committee and the committee changes over in January so the award kind of morphed you're actually getting recog nition for an article that was in the patch. So I I always say to myself, be careful be careful where what you do because somebody's watching somewhere. Um the ISAP the I guess copog patch on May 8th produced an article about the natural helpers program and New York State school boards has their own uh staff that combs the media to find out what's going on and then produces a daily summary of key articles to look at. Um and from that this uh award was actually selected. They watch the news across the state and in
010two or three uh times a year take all of the items that they think are of value. And what's of value is something that impacts students, provides a an excellent example of collaboration and really highlights the good work that a school district or schools will do. So um on behalf of Bob Schneider who is the executive director and Sandy Rufo who is our state president at the time and her motto is um educating the whole child. This program, the natural helper peer mentors program really is a great example of how we embed civics and uh community responsibility while we are educating our students to actually um look at and explore different kinds of of ways of being adults as they grow. So on behalf of New York State School Boards and Sandy Rufo um we
011are presenting this banner. The banner says Champions of Change which is the name of the kind of award that we have for the Hop Hog Union Free School District School Board Board of Education for the Natural Helpers Program. And um I am just graced to be here to award this to you, but I actually learned more about the program and how well long and how well it's embedded in your school district as I was standing here talking to your excellent leader of the program. So I want to say congratulations and thank you to you all. I do have two of Sandy's pins. You can all fight over them. Um and I am pleased actually to present this to you. On a personal note, I know somebody that's getting a new job here and I want
012to congratulate you on that, too. So, would would everyone who was participating in Natural Helpers please come forward? Would the board come forward so that you can have a photo to commemorate this moment? [Applause] [Music] I like playing. All right. Kids go on the front. They're the most important people. Excellent. How are you? I want to grow like I know you were grow. Cops are so hot. really good. Congratulations. Congratulations. Congratulations. Yes, I do. [Music] That would make sense. the box. I hope [Laughter] other numbers into Jesus. Thank you. Number two, uh 582 on our agenda is uh additional recognitions and awards. Uh the DECA International Conference Awards presented by Leslie Broofphy and Frankfel. Good evening and thank you for the opportunity to speak. As director of career and technical education, I'm proud to highlight
013DECA. DECA is a national organization that prepares students for careers in the business field. It provides meaningful opportunities for students to develop leadership, communication, and business skills through re real world application and competition. Our DECA program success is built upon strong leadership. I want to acknowledge Mr. Huff Nagel, our dedicated DECA adviser and business teacher. His continuous effort significantly contributes to students development and achievements in this program, making these valuable experiences possible. Thank you, Mrs. Burphie, and thank you, Board of Education and Administration, for allowing us to attend the International Career Development Conference, which was held in Orlando this year at the end of April. Uh, as Mr. Brophie said Becca is a an organization and as you can tell by the name international across the world. Uh at the international competition there were 10
014different countries and several different uh United States territories uh and over 25,000 uh students and adviserss. Thank you. All right. and we had the privilege of attending and being represented by two outstanding students, Ireina Bellisai and Allison Wars. So, please come [Applause] up. They are both sophomores at the high school. Uh this is actually Ireina's second year winning at the state career conference and uh then this year she got with Allison and they took on a different project. One of the competitions categories at Dhaka is project management in which they have to actually be project managers and organize this compet um this uh category whichever they want. They decided to do something near and dear to their hearts and they decided to go with the community awareness project which they did uh contacted Mr. Gagliardi.
015Mr. Dagliardi invited us to Brighton Woods and they presented to the fifth grade class uh presentation along with other students from DECA and our fine arts program and uh they talked about bullying and inclusion and they won at the state competition which then qualified them to go to the international competition. Unfortunately, that international competition is uh a little bit weird in that they don't tell you how you did it. Uh they could have came in third place or they could have came in 103rd place. But uh whatever it was, the experience and the fact that they had the initiative to attend and to do this job is a really a credit to them and their families because to have two sophomores with the uh with just the drive to do this is outstanding. The last
016time Hopog went to international competition was 2019. And so I was uh happy that they took this role on. I'm looking forward to the next couple years with them. Uh because they had a healthy dose of disappointment when they didn't win. But within the hour they were like, "What can we do next year to do better and and get back here next year?" So, uh hopefully next year I'll be telling you about our trip to Atlanta. So, uh so thank you ladies for your great outstanding job and once again thank you for everybody for making it possible. Let's get I am standing back. [Laughter] Congratulations. These guys are the stars. Yes, please. Thank Thank you. Congratulations. [Applause] By show of hands, how many here uh how many people are here for to hear the budget
017presentation? Two, three, four. All right. So, we'll take a three-minut break to allow those that want to escape to do so. Uh we will reconvene in exactly three minutes. Thank you. Number six on the agenda are questions and comments from the community concerning the agenda only. Number seven is the consent agenda. Do any members have um do any members have um items that they'd like to have removed? With that, I'll take a motion to approve the consent agenda. Thank you. I will second. Any discussion? All those in favor? 70. Thank you. Very quickly. Oh, died. [Music] I just want to uh acknowledge that uh thank the court for approving the consent agenda. Among the items on the consent agenda was the appointment of Dr. Smallley as the new principal at Brenttonwoods Elementary School for the
018next school year. Congratulations to Dr. Small. [Applause] family attended tonight, Chris, Chris, Lauren, and Juliet. Congratulations to the whole Smolley crew. So, like to do a quick photo over here with your family, Chris. Hi. It's a big deal for all of us once a year. Yeah. Yeah. Can you can you do the honors? I don't see Nicole. throw away. [Applause] [Music] All right, guys. Congratulations. [Applause] [Music] Okay, returning to 5B on the agenda, presentations, uh the 2025 2026 school budget hearing by Bridget Scanner, our assistant superintendent for business and operations. Okay. So, tonight is the budget hearing, which is the last time you'll hear me for this season. Um, tomorrow night and Thursday night are PTA meetings. Tomorrow night is uh Brett Woods and High School. Thursday is Bar. So, let's see this go. The
0192526 budget maintains present class sizes and programs. It expands course offerings over at the middle school and high school be at uh essentials of Long Island, History of Long Island and and Eagles. Um continue student mental health programs with effective school solutions at the high school and Northwell Health investment in classroom and technology services. Um and then transfer to capital replacing the kindergarten playground over at Farsbrook including site work to be able to get that into the ground and then curb work over at the middle school. Funding snapshot on the revenue side. So uh tax levy is the largest source of revenue for hop. The change from the current year 2425 to 2526 is a change of 3.25%. That is the tax levy limit for 2526. State aid is the next largest source of revenue
020for HOA. From their payments in le of taxes, we have a large industrial park here in Hop uh which helps to offset the burden to the taxpayer. And then other is uh interest uh and other means and mechanisms including building rentals and then reserves and fund balance are two uh historical ways that we have also offset the burden to the taxpayer as well. The grant total budget for 252.6 is 138 390 328 which is a change of 3.88%. That number is different from the tax levy change of 3.25. The next slide [Music] uh is a snapshot of all the expenditures for the expenditure budget. The top three are for people and their benefits. The there are five bargaining units here at Hop. And then everything else be utilities, transportation or other is to make our
021five buildings run efficiently and effectively. Uh so the last slide and this slide total and equal to each other again the 2526 budget 138 390 328. So uh one addition for when you go to the poll on Tuesday May 20th on the back side of that ballot will be proposition two. Proposition two is regarding an energy performance contract. We are looking to uh have an audit done later this summer from an energy systems group. They will be presenting their find findings to the board of education. But specifically on May 20th, the voters are being asked if we can increase the uh state aid that we would receive from 45% to 55% which is an additional 10% which would help to offset um uh the way that it works is that it has to be neutral
022so there is an impact to the taxpayer. So overall, energy performance contracts don't require voter approval to to be had, but we're just asking for an additional 10% up on that ballot. So why would Hopog benefit? We would save approximately 1.14 a year on energy and then the savings are used to uh fund the improvements to infrastructure again and uh stressing that there's no impact to the taxpayer. This slide is just an overall uh glimpse at what improvements will be included in the energy performance contract. So anything that we can do to offset and decrease our uh utility costs. So be heating and cooling, lighting and power, uh energy management. And then one cool aspect here is student engagement which is looking to incorporate students be at high school or middle school uh for them
023to learn about energy efficiency and sustainability. So from here, the next thing is May 20th, which is the annual school budget vote and election from 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. in this building here at Whipper. And the information that you would like to see on the 2526 budget is on the website on the main page looking at the 5M keys on the right. It is the second or third from the bottom over there. And that is the 256 budget. Thank you. Since this is technically a hearing, uh, I'll be in the hearing open. Uh, do any board members have questions concerning tonight's, uh, hearing? Do any community members have any questions concerning tonight's hearing? Yes. If you don't mind, please uh, approach the podium. Question. It says on the slide and also says in this
024thing we wing them here the pamphlet. It says it maintains the current class size but in Farbrook you're eliminating a fourth grade class next year. How does that maintain the current class size? Hi Chen. Hi. So um across the district the average class size is a half a point within 20 over the last 3 years. So it fluctuates from class to class or section to section, but overall the class size average next year is 20.1. This year it's 19.5. Last year was 20.1. So it's it's been within that range for quite some time. So I mean it's technically not maintaining what we are we currently have. It's maintaining an average amongst all of the buildings and all of the classes. Yes. Do you know why it doesn't say that? Well, the budget brochure and the
025presentations are meant to serve as a synthesis of the budget, right? So, we wouldn't itemize every single grade level K to2 uh in a in a synthesized document. It's meant to be a summary. Oh, no. I agree. I don't I don't think you were, you know, it shouldn't have been that. What I'm saying is maintains current class size makes it seem as if everything will stay the same from this year to next year. Okay. I told you our intention is to reflect what's been a a trend now gosh for over a decade uh certainly since this board has been in place where we used to have class sizes on average that were north of 24 25 26 27 and now they're hovering around 20 or lower each year. Forest Brook is, I think, 18.5 next
026year. Of the three buildings, it's the lowest. It's the lowest, but we're increasing the fourth grade class size by about 10. This is actually one of the fourth grade classes right here on the cover. And we're adding probably about 10 kids to this class next year. I think that our um 20 is it 28 or 29 is our uh the cap cap? Yeah. So I mean in all classes in all buildings were well below our policy as far as uh maximum kids in a class. I think fourth grade is 28 kids in a class. I think we're um 24 24 there which I think is the smallest out of all of the uh uh elementary schools. I believe that both Pines and uh Brent Woods are projected to have larger fourth grades than uh Forest
027Brook is. But either way, we're well below our uh policies. But you don't think that number is too high? I understand it's below the policy, but you don't think the policy number is too high? No, I don't. Compared to what it was, compared to where we are now, uh you know, when we first um this board started working together about 10 years ago, I think we're down probably close to eight kids per class. um to where we were back then. Uh so we're very comfortable with our limits. Um it's worked well across the board in all schools since we've been here. Um so no, I don't think that those class sizes are big person. So you think increasing this class size by 10 kids is what's best for the kids? I I think that as
028long as we're under our limits that we've set 10 years ago that have worked so well, I personally I have no concern about that. And I have my kids are from the Pines and the classes are bigger than Pines uh than any of the other schools. So I don't have any concern with anything below our cap personally. Does anyone I know I see some cars for parenting up here. I uh my youngest son and Brian's oldest son uh were the last class to have only two sections and it worked very well. There's very competent teachers. I have to say I don't think anything fell through the cracks especially because one of the classes always has a team of teachers. So I think my son's what was it 24 25 for each section. Um and it
029it worked well. It did. It's it's kind of not I feel like you guys had an extra year with a very small class that grade level. It could have you know it could have synthesized last year but you really had extra time with it. and 16 17 kids is really below expectation of a class size I would think. And you don't think that's what's better for the children though? Oh, listen I I I think that a very small class size is good in a lot of ways but not good in a lot of ways. We were talking about and I think what also has to be said and thought about is how much thought how much how much time goes into discussing this stuff. It's not like we just said, "Oh, you know what? we're
030gonna make it two classes and that's it. Let's not even talk about it. That's just the way it is. We're just looking at numbers. That's not how it is. It's talked about. It's thought about. It's people put presentations together. Time is taken and it's worked in the past and it'll it's going to work now. We have very competent staff at Forestbrook and it's worked for us personally. We have personal experience with it and 22 23 kids in classes. So we we received some emails uh as you may know from uh some of the parents in Forest Brook. We've asked Dr. Murphy to do a deep dive on some of the data. Uh and he has I want to call it a presentation but he has some some slides I guess of some data to uh
031share which I hope uh will make you feel a little bit better about um what you perceive as too many kids in the class. If you could uh bear with us and let him show you what we've uh dug into. Thanks. [Music] Okay. All together. We're going to tilt this. So, in in the interest of time, I'm going to skip through a few slides. We really talked and and Jen and I had a great conversation. we didn't necessarily uh end it on at the same space but I respect your advocacy and um appreciate you coming to advocate further. So um policy 4420 is what dictates um how I have to operate in my role as superintendent. Class size is a factor. Yes, there's a distinction between grades K to three and four to five. That's
032sound. That's based upon research. In K to three, they're still focusing on early literacy and numeracy. In grades four and five, they have more stamina, more independence. They're doing more group work. So, that makes a lot of sense. This policy predates me. Um, Miss Collins spoke about this um larger factors. And again, I'm I'm not going to get into the weeds about, you know, of course I'm not talking about a class size of 32, right? But we're talking about class sizes that are in the 20s and the high teens here. They're all uh they're all uh in the range of what research would say is suggested class sizes. It's about the quality of instruction, teacher development, support systems, instructional practices. So um I don't have this in this presentation but what I can share with
033the group thank you is that in addition to class size in these buildings over the last 5 years again supported by this board we've added a lot of supports there. So that means math specialists social workers guidance counselors and we've had a very generous approach with that. Some districts would take this total student enrollment and then do a proportional FTE in those buildings, but we've been adding staff to kind of complement what again has been a board goal from before my arrival in this role, but certainly as assistant superintendent. Um, bigger picture, I I have the obligation to look at this as part of, you know, bigger mosaic FTEES staffing. So although we're talking about class sizes tonight at the elementary level, there are plenty of uh administrators. I see Mr. White who each budget
034season is advocating for staffing uh in his building which affects class sizes at the high school. Mrs. Okconor do the same thing. Of course, our directors uh I look at equity at the other buildings, right? So are we uh treating everybody fairly, right? And what are the staffing needs? biggest picture it's a budget driver right when I'm when we're hiring people it's um it's a financial impact and so uh the fiscal responsibility that accompanies that effort so our practice right so Mr. Marsh alluded to the board policy, but for years we've been well below that. Well below. You'll see that in the coming slides. I always say the the math is what is is the guiding force that the board policy the board have puts into place. So that takes the place of a role
035superintendent is like, "Oh, I'm going to give pines the best class size numbers." No, the class size uh regulation dictates what I have to do. And yes, sometimes principal perspective comes into play. Mr. Tasman will talk to a principal and say, "Here's total number of sections." A principal may say, "Oh, this year this grade level, I have a lot of different things going on and here's my voice on that." Which could change a second grade class from being 20 to a third grade class being 22 or vice versa. So, those little nuances do exist. Um, and then last point on this is, and you'll see this in the map, when your building has the smallest population, which obviously spreads through the the grade levels, the impact of one more section or one less section is
036more pronounced. So big picture, this is the the last 16 years inclusive of the year to come, right? So next year and the last 15 including this one. And you can see the trends. They're highlighted in yellow simply to illuminate that uh the numbers start to greatly decrease when this board uh you know got together. And there's five of seven who have been around together for quite some time. And you can see how 24s and 25s went to 22s, 20s, 19s, 18s, and so forth. The year I talked about um to Jen who asked a question next year Brentton Woods projected 21.2 2 18.5 for Carsbrook 20.5 for Pines together uh based upon number of students that's the 20.1 number that I shared this is simply uh representing what you just saw on the slide
037again the trend lines going in the right direction busy slide so next two slides are busy so I don't need you to like you know zero in on anything in particular They're meant to represent the changes over time in class sizes from 2010 11 school year all the way through to today. These are eight years from 1011 to 1718. I just want you to notice the red. The red means we were either close to the cap size or above it. Yellow was below the cap size by a few. So for the 25 cap size, you're in between 21 and 24. And for brains four and five, 22 and 26 and then the brain is ready to get even lower. So again, this is 9 years ago and older. This is the most recent eight years,
038right? So again, just visually you can see that things have trended in a tremendous direction. And if you kind of just summarize with your eyes about greens and yellows, you can see the trends even within the buildings, right? And that's represented in that chart which showed the summaries of Forest Brook, Ponds, and BW. And again, it's not because of any superintendent preference on on Forest Brook. You'll see it's it's much more about just math breaks. When you have less students, sometimes the math rings are much more in your favor or not in your favor, which I'll point out. So this is prior two slides just in one again just to see the trends over time. Okay, next school year there's not a single section, right? Single class in the district talking K5 that even comes
039close to the cap to the max, right? So if we were to kind of rank these in terms of all right who would be the closest to the cap it's it's Brettton Woods grade four which is 8.33% again below the cap so we're not at the caps and then you can see that trend increase all the way up to top two forest Brook second and third and 33% respectively below the cap again that creates a different challenge which I'm offering as part of the conversation tonight and is part of my own reflection as superintendent. Here's the math, right? And again, I'm I'm sharing two slides that that attempt to show this uh in two different directions. So, imagine we had eight sections in a building and then we decided to split and we went to
040nine. You go 200 kids, you have 25 that goes to 22. You can see the percentage reduction. do that same thing with 100 students, four sections at 25, now we're going to five. We've lowered that by by five students. That's actually a 20% reduction. And this is the actual case here in Forest Brook roughly. We've had 47, we're at 48. Two sections at 24. If you make that three sections, it's 16. Right? So 33% reduction. Why I think I'm hearing from Jen and the feeling that you have in your in your belly is is when it's in reverse. It feels like you're going from a lot, a little to a lot. And that's again not because of some puditive measure. It's it's again it's reflective of what often happens in this district when third graders
041go to fourth because of board policy. That's naturally where we try to uh consolidate if we can assuming again that we're not coming near the caps because the board has made it clear over the time that we don't want to even come close to. So I do recognize that it feels like a bigger deal when you're going from 16 to 24. But let's take a closer look at that for a minute. To me, it's about perception and this is honoring the feelings that you have. So, here is real data. Here's greens and yellows from one of the buildings, right? It's really not important, but you kind of understand that greens mean they're even lower compared to the yellows. I'm just bringing your eyes to the blue here. Now, by show of hands, if if you
042are willing, are you third grade parents this year in the audience? Is anyone not a third grade parent? Okay. So, these are parents from a different grade and they're at 23.7 this year. If you're not hearing from them, 22.3 next year, I'm not hearing from them. I think it's just the natural human experience where the the differences, the deltas from year to year have not been so significant where it feels like, okay, we're at 20, next year at 21.3, not really feeling that as a big difference. 21.3 again, 23. I went up by two, but I'm still within the range. So that is not I'm not hearing from those parents. If I do that same exercise here with third grade parents going into fourth, this feels different, right? So that that I think is what
043we're hearing is that okay, we're at 15.7 one year, we're at 20.3, 17.7. We've been in this tremendous range and now we're popping up again, right? And that just feels different. If these were all in the 20s, I'm not sure that we'd be having the conversation because it would have been the norm. It would have been what you've been feeling all along, right? So, I do recognize that that feeling um I'm not dismissing it. When Jen and I met, feelings are feelings. They're not wrong. That's the way you feel. But I do think that that mass is impactful. to contextualize this further to to try to put that 24 in context with other um class sizes over the years. This means prior eight years. 24 is roughly 14.29% below the cap. 14.3 let's call it.
044And so what are other class sizes over the years that fall within 14.3 to 0% of the cap? So as you can see there's plenty of examples of that. So this is not a silo situation. This does happen and again it happens because of math. It doesn't happen because of uh of any agenda. Math meaning math of class size breaks with number of kids but also the math of the budget and fairness and equity. Right? So you can kind of see the numbers here. Um and I I make this not at note at the bottom. I'm not saying yellow's bad. I'm just simply somewhat taking this arbitrarily because it is a topic. So, we're focused on this particular section next year. Um, I'm not suggesting 14.3% the cap below the cap is is bad. I'm
045just now using that as an instrument to compare the other data. So, you could see again the numbers here. They're they're pretty um uh eye opening in terms of that context. And then just going back to big picture, here's enrollment summary. Brentonwoods, Forest Brook, Pines. These are pretty much up to date. You can see Pines is actually catching BW. That difference was much greater in prior years. And here's the last three years in terms of average building class size. And then this is again, I'm acknowledge looking in the mirror. I I want to always have like the answers that make you feel best. I I don't like disappointed parents. So the mirror I'm looking in is, you know, is that feeling something that we should solve for earlier? In other words, would would that change
046from 16 to 24 feel so significant where if we make these changes along the way, which would not necessarily be well received, but if we started it earlier on, the impact perhaps wouldn't be felt as much, but we've been abiding by the philosophy and our practice and trying to solve for this from year to year. I give Mr. Tasman a lot of credit. It's it's not always easy. This is not gospel just to say we're in May. Things do change between May. The board policy gives me the power up until I believe the last week of August to make changes. I said this to Jen that that's not me hinting that I'm going to make the change in this case. The truth is we have other sections across the district with higher numbers. Um, and
047proportionally the highest number is actually as we looked at a first or second grade class or section um, grade, excuse me, in uh, Bretton Woods. Um, so hopefully that helps to provide some some context. I'm happy to take your questions. I don't know if that's helpful in terms of seeing the bigger picture, but I'm I'm here to answer your questions and I'll be at Forest Brook on Thursday night to do this again if helpful. over the past 10 years. Do you think that policy is outdated at this point in time, especially being that they're mandating New York City schools to actually have lower caps where fourth grade is only 23. So, from the board's perspective, and and Dr. Murphy, you can um correct me if I'm wrong, but the research and the data on this
048supports the numbers that we've been using. uh unless there's something that's changed that I'm not aware of. Um yeah, so uh I am aware of New York City is is looking at their their numbers. I will tell you that one thing that I will do is is see where we land. Um I'm wondering Dr. McCarthy if um uh what's the website we use to pull the data. Um school Yeah, I wonder if school man has that data. I I'm happy to pull data to see where we stand in relation to others nearby. Uh I rarely compare us to New York City for 100 reasons, but um I promise I'll look into that. But clearly there was a reason that you know they decided and that they thought it was absolutely a fair point. We we
049made this Yep. We made this change 10 years ago. That's a long time ago. One thing we could we could do is bring it to the policy committee if we wanted to have a discussion about it. So we can talk about that. And and in the past when we've come close to hitting the uh cap, these are hard caps as far as the board's concerned. And if we've come close to hitting it, we've broken uh sections and hired teachers as late as right before school started. Yeah. You know, the only thing I'd add is um so your points are valid once you look at those numbers, but as you can see by the data, even though we've had the higher caps, we we've never even come close to them, right? So 24 uh is in
050relation to 28 and so we can look here along along this column right cap is 25 25 28 28 and so forth. So on average um again our numbers are around 20.1 next year across the district. Not to say to your point J doesn't mean we have outliers in any data set that that's true. Just like again at some point in the past if we looked at at the 24 this year right you guys were at 15.7 um maybe the first grade parents weren't so happy right that they were four higher than kindergarten not because I was like best friends with Jen and I'm like doing that artificially it's because just the numbers and each year we we are at the mercy of those and I will say when we have 48 if it's a
051K to3 class or or grade level. We've been airing on the side of I I'll go back to slide one just for one moment just to show you in some ways I've been not adhering to the cap minimums. Right? So there's actual minimum guidelines in there, but Mr. Tasler knows 48 in K to2 make that a a three and now we're at 16. Two students move out now we're at 15 and a half. I mean, kids are sick all the time. Now, the teacher's got 13 kids in the class. It brings up different issues about um that aren't always obvious uh in a class that's a little higher. But, but again, these outliers aside, they're not really outliers. So, I'm not we're not talking about a a 29. We're not breaking any capes. Um on
052average, we're where the board has been for a long time. But your your point is a fair one. And Mr. Tasman if we could add that to the policy committee's top of the agenda for us to look at in our next I had a pine chair and ask about that too. So the pines um the policy committee can discuss I'm sorry you a lot could change. What grade is she in? She's in first class on my concern too. We have such a transient increase and decrease of our school population and what's going to happen October if the threshold 27 would break. We've never come close. And and just to be clear, we have kids who come in and out um from all different places. Sometimes coming in brings a first grade class that's that um
053that is wouldn't be broken and we end up breaking it because we have additional students who enter that grade. So sometimes additional kids actually the math works in their favor. That's happened a number of times. Um so yes uh student Each week we look at the class sizes and provide the board report. So we monitor this truly weekly um throughout the year and and over the summer too. Over the summer we're constantly monitoring like but you can see that here here's here's the trend, right? The trend is is pretty consistent. If I and and I I think I gave you the numbers the last three years I know but the average understands I get it 24ernizes and now here we are where he's going to be a class of She should probably What grade is
054she in? First grade. Yes. So next year you're in second grade. Yes. Right. So that's 15.7. Yeah. So so where we look at things with you know every year is a new budget right? So a new conversation but the policy talks about the difference between K to three and four to five. So that is where we may see a number that's higher. But again, if we look at Brett and Wood's grade one next year, they're at 22 where their fifth grade is at 22. So that's simply because of the of the math, right? That's probably 88 students, four sections if I can guess. So if we went to five sections, right, now we're looking at 17, right? And and so each one of those decisions is a big decision because then like fact well if
055we made Brett Wood 17 there why are we not looking and this that never ends. That's why we have a parameters that we have to uh live by and and again it's kind of amazing looking at at the data that uh we've been keeping these so low for some time and and the trends hopefully you see are pretty good. There's no there's no real difference other than the fact that yes, each year you may see a yellow pop up and simply that indicates below the cap but not as much and that's the group uh that is is here too. So my my other question I know it has nothing to do with this but if classes aren't maxed out take away one of their wonder because I know they're 18 spotted now and if they
056don't fill those two classes they'll have nice class sizes or will you consolidate them again? Not not it has nothing to do with fourth grade whatever but just to have a room back in our building that's so so complicated conversation so it's completely fair right so the UPK kids are the younger brothers and sisters of siblings in the building we try uh again the board has supported this with real dollars because the way the state provides the money we don't get to capitalize on all those dollars. What we're sign we're trying to stay true to, but it's getting harder is to keep students who live in that area in that building. Could it be that we have to combine sections because the numbers are are are too crazy or it doesn't work out? Yes, that
057could actually happen this year going into next where we have to not stick to the whole building rule. Um it's too early to say, although we'll know soon because we had the lottery. Every parent was told yes that you have a spot if you want. But then there's a second step where they actually have to say yes, I want that ticket. And we normally see about 10% who say no to that. So uh that will then dictate how the numbers look for next year. We could have we can have 18 with a UPK teacher. We could have up to 20 with a TA. That costs us money. We've been doing that here. Support from the board rather than take those two kids and say you're going to go from Forest Brook over to Brent Woods.
058But next year could be different because there's a lot of factors that play. We'll we'll communicate that as soon as we know. Sure. Where will we put the fact that space? I I don't have We'll figure it out with Mr. Cole. They'll get They have to have a class. No, I I agree and I understand, but our building is Yeah. available potential available space, right? Losing that absorbing other benefit. We We'll have to solve for that and I promise you that we will. Yeah, that that's a that's a challenge we may have. The other bill is that's part of the the challenge of again over the last five years, we've added in each of the three buildings five or six additional support people. So, for instance, some districts don't have a a STEM lab uh
059a digital a digital space. Some some districts don't have a math center. Some districts don't have an art room. We have all of it. So, so we're faced with potentially a good problem which is we have uh you know early intervention with our newest kids through UPK. We have all of these other electives and supports for our kids. We have low class sizes. So now what are you going to do Murphy? Because the building's bursting at the scenes I have to figure that out and we will do so. But it just feels that far specifically right because that's what we know. Yep. it feels full and where I'm not saying the other buildings may not you know are probably full but you hear that the other buildings have other opportunities that our building doesn't have
060like the P has sent them for the kids to go who are you know who could benefit from that we don't have that yeah so the question Daniel answer any of the parents here have a UPK student next year would you like you know if if we if your child was going to Brent Woods would that be something you would be happy about. Oh, Frank, right? What is that? Of course. Right. So, we're trying to we're trying to make everybody happy as best we can and that's that's the challenge, right? So, um I don't know what that will look like, but we always try to strike the right balance. Um yeah, I know how you feel. I So, you're you're not ambiguous with me on your feelings and and I respect that. Um, I I
061will tell you, we put so much thought into this that we want to solve for it all. And I think that there's a lot to be proud of here and happy about. And I promise you, it's going to be a great year. Miss Collins, I think, said it best. 24 seems like a lot in a vacuum or in comparison to 16, but 24 is a very reasonable number. And we have the best teachers. We truly budget supports developing our teachers. They are the best. The culture in the buildings are great. Mr. Coin is incredible. Um, they're going to have a great year. And let's be clear, we agree. I don't I mean, even in terms of buildings, I think our building is the best. I mean, obviously, I don't have anything to compare to, but
062I hope you would think that. I think our principal is the best. I think our teacher is the best. I think we're very lucky. I just think they're advantage by increasing your class size by 10. I and I understand I I understand where you're at. Okay. Um yes. So two kind of separate but questions. Um one is when you review the policy, do you consider uh predictive modeling? So yes, you're showing trends that are going down. However, there are a lot of co babies. Mine is one of them. Um I do expect to see it maybe even a little blip but of an increase in children. Um and again I just would not want a policy to especially with a cap that high um to be detrimental to our children. So um I have a
063bug. Um yes we have done a Boseies uh enrollment summary. We do that every few years. We just did that. So, we have some predictive analysis, some trends. Our numbers, I think we're at 3,74 somewhere around there. Um, we've leveled off. Our population has changed a bit though. So, um, but our our overall numbers have kind of flatlined a little bit, but still trending a little lower. But we we do keep on top of that. We have to because it plays such an important role in in budgetary decisions on ret you know are we filling retirements are we hiring new um sometimes we're hiring new areas and we're not uh filling other spots because of different needs and changes over the years. So the second question which is tangentially tied to that um is why
064do we have to wait an entire year and an entire budget cycle to get the little playground of course the broken fruits we have now an influx of EP kids um that playground you know I have a kindergartener as well and she's a peanut so sending her over to the big playground whereas you know she's feisty she's still too little to use most of it. Um, you know, I understand that maybe repairs could be made, but you know, our kids, our little kids are losing out on important recreational opportunity. And so, we have an entire year where our younger have minimal opportunity to play in an area that's really designed for them. Again, it's kind of an impact to our children. And I really hope that there is a way to accelerate that. I you
065want to talk about project management. You had the presentation about the deck of students. What's your critical path item? Crashing. So you know that basic project management fair scrutiny. I'm going to ask Miss talk about this for a moment. It's in the budget. We're at the mercy of some things outside our control that if opportunities at the state present themselves, the board is always supported. Get into that. Unlike uh beating is the point. So it's it's two things and it's twofold. First, we're always mindful of safety of our students, of your children who are also ours during the school day. Uh, so we're working with the company to see if there's a short-term plan that we can put into place to fix it, but that comes at a cost. So, we need to understand what
066that will look like. The company has said that they have the parts. They're working with the vendor to determine how that whole thing would transpire and how much it would be. The plan in place now is for something that would take place more than likely next summer. But the way that we have to do that is that we work with the architects. We develop a plan. It goes up to the state education department. It takes a whole bunch of months for them to review it. Finally, send and stamp off on it. Send us the building permit. And then at that point in time, we can issue a purchase order. We can get to line for the replacement of that that playground equipment. So, it's not something that is easily done in a day. It does
067take time to develop, but the first initial part was saying it would be a part of this coming year's budget, but we are mindful of exactly that. I think the other problem though is that the kindergarten playground over at Farsbrook is very far from the the newer playground that was built in in 2022. So, I I have worked with Mr. Colin. I have worked with, you know, any any staff member with Mr. calling to determine what it would look like going forward in a short-term plan and a longer term plan, but the distance between the two is is kind of difficult as well. So, it's not as simple as we can utilize these swings and everyone is supervised. You know, you also want to keep your your students and your kids together, but we are
068trying to develop and see things from from all lenses from, you know, kids perspectives, parents perspect uh perspective and and safety as well. and and there was a mechanism right at the state level which doesn't exist to expedite. Yes. Right. Yes. So if there's a way at the state we're in line when it comes to projects like every other district and it's very frustrating waiting on that process to play out. They've had in the past you can pay to correct anything I'm saying that's wrong um to kind of go to the front of the line or the first few few spots of line. They've taken that uh mechanism away. If they bring it back, then I would ask the board for support. Miss Sienna will make sure we can do that and then uh um
069it's something they've approved in the past. So we would look into that. No, I understand. I understand that process. I think there are opportunities to shorten high. Architects are still for hire. Architects work as fast. So, and I'm not trying to sound aggressive for lack of a better word, but um you know, again, I just it's a it's a detriment to our children. And because we're this small school, it feels, and I use that word very heavily, it does feel like our kids are taking the brunt of some of the the challenges throughout Fisher. I've been asking around for like since my oldest was in kindergarten, I've been asking about that play around and I got pushed off several times, not by anyone in particular, but I'm looking now and she's she won't even be
070able to use it. So, it's kind of this is disappointing because it's going to take so long. It's happening. I'm sorry that it can't happen tomorrow, but we're we are getting funding for it. Am I correct? So, Miss S was able to secure a grant to get funding to make that happen. So, um, so it's happening, but I know that it's it's never feels good to to wait for something like that. Um, Mr. Cole's been great with figuring out how to best, uh, manage things in the meantime, and we're trying to get the repairs done as soon as possible so that it's serviceable. Any further questions from anyone in the community concerning the budget here? Okay. Any questions from the board? So with that, I'll deem the hearing closed. We'll move on to our next
071item on the agenda, which is new business. Do any board members have new business? Administration have new business? Number 12 on the agenda, questions and comments from the community concerning anything related to the district whatsoever. Any questions from anyone? Number 13 on the agenda is is a motion for an adjournment. Our budget vote and board of education member election is Tuesday, May 20th, 2025 from 6:00 a.m. to 900 p.m. at Whipperwill. We encourage everyone to go out and vote. And then our next meeting after that is the business community meeting of Tuesday, June 3rd, 2025 at the high school. Uh I'll make a motion for the adjournment. Mr. Scrio seconds. Any discussion? All those in favor? 70. We are adjourned. God bless United States. God bless Hong Kong. Thank you.