001I'm not sure that folks it is uh 5:00 pm. We only have an hour for the see policy committee. So we're going to begin. We're going to call the meeting to order. Uh we'll begin with public comments. We have two people who have signed up and one is a su >> good evening. Hello. As I said, my name is Ace Fr. I am a senior at IHS and I'm hoping to provide some insight on the exopicio student member policy. First of all, I'm very excited to see that students will be regularly attending committee working sessions as well as board voting meetings and will be allowed to speak throughout the meetings as I understand that. I'm hopeful that this will allow for more student input on the details of certain policies and give students the context
002they need to engage in board discussions. Secondly, I would like to express support for the idea that student members should maintain active communication with other student groups, in particular the village at Ithaca board. Historically, student representatives have rarely been truly representative of the student body and an emphasis on collaboration and listening is therefore particularly crucial. That being said, I have a few concerns. First of all, I would like to push back against the suggestion that labor negotiations are not student matters and that student representatives shall not engage in advocacy. I am a firm believer that teachers working conditions are student learning conditions and student perspectives on labor matters should not be disregarded simply because they are students. There exists no matter concerning ICS which does not concern students and it is not the role of
003the board to tell students what does and does not impact them. Secondly, there needs to be some accountability for student reps who wish to return for a second trip. If a student misses over a third of the meetings they are expected to attend, whether that's because they stay only a portion of time at all meetings or skip entire meetings, they should be disqualified from serving in this position. Again, put simply, if someone cannot fulfill their responsibility, someone else should be given the chance. Thank you. >> Next is David. >> One second here. I'm just gathering my paper first. All right. >> Um, now I want to just be clear because there's lots of shifts happening between yesterday and today. And so I am speaking Well, let's just go for it. Hi, I'm David Eisley. I
004am first vice president of the Ithaca Teachers Association. And I am speaking to what I believe is the most recent version of the draft policy on student exeicial members. This with the purple and the green. I'm here to raise my voice and concerns over the draft policy on student exeicial members that's on the agenda to be discussed today. There are two elements of the draft policy that are particularly noteworthy. The first concern I raised about this draft proposal is that despite the veneer, it seems to limit the ability for students to have a seat at the table and to speak truth to their concerns and experiences. Though it states at least one official student member must come from IHS and LACS, it then limits the number of student members able to speak at a public
005voting meeting to only one per school. This seems like a reduction from the current practices I have observed. Moreover, despite an assurance that the student members would be able to freely and without judgment to express student perspectives even when those perspectives may differ from administration or the board and that any board mentorship would not restrict or influence the content of the student perspectives shared publicly, the policy does not hesitate to define what students may not talk about. Which brings me to my second point. As written, this policy appears openly hostile to organized labor both within the ICSD and the community. The policy would specifically bar student members from engaging in advocacy related to collective bargaining with regard to both stu with both staff and community members. It also aims to ensure that students are not
006placed in adult governance, labor or political dynamics beyond their role or responsibility while also inongruously stating that the student members responsibility would be to bring a student perspective on issues that directly impact students experiences. It was not all that long ago that we heard students repeatedly state that the working conditions of adults in the ICSD do impact their experience. It is is it truly the opinion of this committee that the experience of students are completely divorced from the lived experience of adults that interact with them every day. I would also note that among the other responsibilities for student members would be to actively seek opportunities to gain experience with local governance and leadership. Does this committee believe that there are no valuable learning opportunities that students could have in partnership with local labor organizations and
007local labor leadership? Given the charge of the policy that students represent all student groups in their role, learning from some of the most talented organizers and labor leaders on how to build democratic processes, how to engage a membership, and how to solicit the voices of all would be exactly the skills this committee would want to see developed. We have those leaders in this city. We have those leaders in this district. I know I'm not allowed to mention names, but I don't think she needs to be mentioned by name. We have um the policy as written seems to prohibit such a partnership from taking place, even if it would be in the best interest of students. So, to end my time with I want to end my time with a moment of curiosity. You've heard from
008me and it's no secret that I'm an active union member, but how do the students feel about the policy you've drafted? Have you asked them? We'll get there. Board responses. >> Are there any board responses? >> Uh, we'll get there. Apologies. >> Um, I'm I'm happy to jump in. Ace, thank you for coming again. Um, it's always good to see you here. I agree with everything that you said. I appreciate you coming, sharing your perspective. Um, David, I uh there's a few there's so many pieces in there. Um, I agree with a lot of the things that you said. Um, this is also um as kind of this is a little bit different in the way that we've uh um worked on this policy and the policy that was actually submitted um as we didn't
009as a whole committee come together and agreed on something that we wanted to put forth. Um, so it's not necessarily all representative of all three of us. Um, I would I would not push back, but I I would welcome I'm I'm curious just the same from you about any like constructive ideas about ways in which we can hear from lots of different students while also being mindful of the very limited time that we have in board meetings on a regular basis. Um I think that one of the reasons that we have been brainstorming um inviting folks and encouraging them to be more engaged in committees is because it does allow for more dialogue and opportunity for the board to be able to hear from individual students and get their ideas. Um I disagree that here
010that uh kind of empowering two uh students to really engage in the communication full board is a reduction in current practices. I would argue that we really don't have any of that engagement much at all right now. We give students a very brief period of time to uh report out and we can respond and then they don't even usually have an opportunity to respond back and then are not engaged in the rest of the conversations which I realize is not directly in line with even the current policy but that's that's what has resulted especially because we have so many people. So, just to clarify that it's it's one idea that that I certainly have. I'm just going to kind of limit that to allow for having more of a spokesperson that's speaking on behalf of
011the group or helping the group elevate issues so that we can do something at all because otherwise I worry that having, you know, seven students at the table makes it so that we can't we don't have the time to allow everybody to really speak. So I certainly um continue to encourage people to bring ideas and ways that we can do that more effectively. Um you know I think that the question about union engagement and encouraging students to be engaged with unions is a is a whole another topic. I guess the first thing that came to my mind which I'll say right now is that like there are a ton of groups within this city that I would love for students to become engaged with and to be able to learn from. In fact, I've been
012really pushing for students to have more opportunities to also learn from those of us on the board. They have very little opportunity to be able to really learn and understand the behind-the-scenes work of governance and other things. So, um I don't see anything particularly in the policy or I certainly don't recall anything that's suing students from engaging with human leadership or any other kind of leadership in the um in the city. kind of thing, but it's more that that's just like a that's not like the the central uh tenant of this policy. That's um if if there is language in there, I'm welcome for you to share it afterwards. Um but thank you for bringing it to our attention for both of you. >> Thank you um both David and Ace for sharing your thoughts.
013I just want to start by clarifying that the draft was intended as a working document and to surface questions and generate discussions across perspectives including students. Um so it was meant to be shared with the students as well. Um I do not view this as a finalized version of the for adoption to the full board. Um and if certainly if words feels perspective or unclear that's helpful feedback so I appreciate that. And the purpose here on this meeting, I guess at least for me, is to start the conversation and help refine the language um so that the role is clearly defined within governance structure while preserving authentic student voice. Um I'm less attached to spec to specific phrasing and more focused on making sure expectations are clear and consistent so that students feel supported in
014the role. Um the intention is clarity and not restriction. And if I overshoots that then we can adjust that together. Thank you. >> Um what is this? My 16th year on the policy committee. When I began on the school board, a policy committee did not exist. It was actually an old school policy book. And as we would go through and read the policies, we were very much aware that there were a significant number of policies that were outdated. And by outdated, I mean more than 50 or 60 years old andor did not accurately capture what we do in practice uh or in uh policy. And so the policy committee was created for that very purpose. In that time, there's been 10, 15, maybe even 20 policies that have taken us more than six months to
015work through. Um, where there's been meeting after meeting. At one point in time, we were meeting twice a month to be able to work through language and to be able to find a way that sort of works. And I mentioned that background because in this situation in particular, we're trying to retrofit a policy, a new mandate to something that we've already had in practice for more than 25 years. And so we're taking what we already have in practice for 25 years and trying to retrofit it into a new mandate. I think one of the things that I'm going to ask Emily to do was to put up on the site the actual language for the mandate so folks can begin there and understand what is being asked or what is being required of the schools
016because what they're really asking for is for a student to be a board member which is a little bit different than the way in which this process has engaged which almost makes it seem like there are multiple sides as opposed to all trying to achieve the same goal. So David, in the most respectful language I could find, I would love to to see exact examples of the hostility that you mentioned. And at the same point in time, I'm aware that if there is an exofficial member, much like board members, they should not necessarily be engaged in collective bargaining. That is the role of the bargaining or negotiation team. And so just like board members for the most part do not sit at the table. We have been observers. That part I understand. I wouldn't expect
017that of a student ex official member either. That is not to say that there wouldn't be dialogue and conversation about what things look like, right? But there's a process and again I recommend folks do humbly again to read a little bit on the tailor law that helps to direct and dictate what our negotiation process looks like. Um I think there was one other thing as well. Uh I think there were some other things about their apologies. I thought I could see and I cannot um the idea of limiting one per school. I will also just echo what um my colleague uh Emily Workman said. I can't foresee a current situation in which 16 voices at the table um are the most productive and trying to find a way again to retrofit a student a student
018process of seven down to two may not be ideal. Um, and thus the reason why it's a working draft and thus the reason why there's continued conversation and even the draft that is presented has not gone to the full board. So, it's a working document to continue these conversations. Even when it goes to the full board, there's still a process. It goes to the full board for discussion and a first vote. If the board were to adopt a first vote, it comes back to the policy committee with any changes that the board may recommend. If the policy committee then feels it's ready for another vote, goes back to the board for a second bullet and adoption. So the process is ownorous on purpose to make sure that we come up with the best possible product.
019So with that being said, I'm looking forward to the conversation. And the last thing that I will add, it's already 5:14. Again, we have an hour, we have other policies on the books. It will be my recommendation before the end of today that we find a dedicated meeting time strictly for this policy. We're not going to be able to solve all the issues. We're not going to be able to address all the concerns. And more importantly, we're not going to be able to find language that accepts the brilliant recommendations that come our way. And so trying to do all that in addition to the other things that the policy committee has to do, that's going to take a little bit of additional time. And we'll have to find ways in which to create a process
020that makes that happen. So before we leave, folks have your calendars ready and open. If you'd like to join that meeting and we'll sort of uh proceed from there. So I know you're you were trying to speak earlier. My apologies for stopping. Please do. >> Yeah. So I I want to respond to AC's comments first and I want to do so respectfully and clearly, but I I honestly disagree um with a lot of things that you said is first about attendance. Yes, student board representatives do sometimes miss meetings, but when that happens, it is always for legitimate reasons that are not always visible to the public. We are students first. We have academic obligations. We have health issues. We have family responsibilities and other commitments that occasionally will conflict with meetings. Bully elected adult board
021members also miss meetings for similar reasons. Expecting any member, especially students, to attend every single meeting without exception is unrealistic and unsustainable. I do understand your concerns about attendance and I do agree that students should not be meeting large or missing large portions of meetings consecutively, but I think I think some of the things that you were posing that we do like censuring someone from running again because they missed some meetings. I think that's a little extreme. Um on the concern about leaving meetings early, when that happens, it's often because the board has moved into topics where student representatives have little context, limited understanding, or no authority to influence outcomes like highly technical budget analysis or detailed performance data. Staying for hours of discussion where we have no meaningful role does not improve student representation
022and it does not make our participation more effective. Regarding representation of student groups, these concerns were brought up at the last policy meeting and we have taken them seriously. I have personally reached out to multiple student organizations and leaders across the school and in many cases I have received little to no response, no invitations to meet and no followup. That said, we have met with groups such as disability club and we survey students multiple times each quarter to gather broader input. And I can I can show you emails. I can show you survey data that show that we are reaching out to these groups and recognize that there are things we're doing wrong. We're not perfect and we want to fix our mistakes, but it's not productive when um complaints are brought up publicly before
023there's any attempt to reach out to us directly. Um often these complaints don't come with solutions and I I want to apologize to the board because I know that I have done this and I've tried to stop this because I know that and I I understand how it feels now. Um we want to fix these issues. we're on we're on the same side. But um you know our emails are open, our meetings are open. Um so if you have if you have solutions and if you have if you want to work through these things, please come through us and talk to us. But it's not realistic to expect busy students to attend a two to three hour meeting every other Tuesday for an entire school year without fail. Um so if you have any ideas
024for improving representation, please email them to us. >> So Judah, thank you for your response. Well, it is clear. This is just yet another example of the depth of detail and nuance that we have to work our way. And so, uh, again, I'll be looking to my board colleagues to see if we can't find a time where the three of us can meet on a Thursday or a Wednesday between now and uh, April's board meeting to be able to have um, sort of a a finalized draft. Historically speaking, and this should be on the agenda. Actually, I'm going to withhold my comments till we actually get to the agenda item if that works for folks. So, I'm going to continue on with our agenda to see how much further help we can possibly be. But
025thank you for folks. Thank you for the comments. I look forward to the engaged dialogue. Uh more to follow. I'm certain with that approval of the minutes of the February 3rd meeting and I will abstain. So, I was nine. And then our first discussion item is draft policy. We do not have a number for it. It is school visits by board members. Uh this policy arose for a number of reasons. There's been some conversation internally. Uh and then um looking and asking folks to explore various other sample policies that school districts do. And what you see here is sort of a blended version of what other districts do. And at the very bottom, it provides two different um examples. Uh not all or not, excuse me, not both are from New York State. Um but
026this is the current draft of some positive language. Again, it is a draft that is meant to be discussed, debated, dialogued about, pulled apart, changed, etc. So, my first response would be to open up to my board colleagues and see if you have thoughts or ideas or questions. and I went through and made the first draft so folks should know partial conversation with legal counsel and then using sample versions of what should take place. >> Um I have a few thoughts I just got lost out of them. So jump >> absolutely metal any thoughts or questions on your end? Um I was uh when I was looking at it earlier, I was wondering with the other uh existing policies we have, they already it seems like they already covered the majority of what's written in
027this uh policy as far as um the visiting and um wearing the name tag and and scheduling it. So I was just wondering like >> yeah I think it's different when a board member contacts a principal and says I want to come visit the school for a day that we don't have a process in place about how that should actually take place and there's questions from legal counsel about whether or not that is good and particular um what kind of situation that may put building leaders in if it's not gone through the superintendent and according to legal counsel if schoolboard members are visiting schools in their board capacity they should only be allowed to do so by full or majority vote of the board. That is not in here. What this says is they should
028notify the board, right? But the idea was our legal council believes that if you're acting in your board capacity, you should get approval from your board colleagues to be able to make that take place. So there's a difference between visiting a school as a parent, a caregiver, a community member, right, an interested party to go watch a athletic event or a music counselor versus I'm going as a board member to learn more about the school, to walk the halls, to maybe do curricular rounds, whatever. That that's the diff that's the difference if you're acting in your official board. Um, I I I actually had a I I was wondering how much we could truncate this down given what Meline just said about um a similar similar policies and so was thinking I can't find like
029the the one that I had open before but uh I think that we could say you in keeping with the policy of visitors at the school and then da da da adding a few others so that then we could take away the things that are repetitive from both of them. um because it did seem like there was a lot of overlap and it seemed like some of the other things that were in the school policy are all so relevant that I wouldn't put them I wouldn't go out of my way to put them in here but they're not like irrelevant to a board member attending like it didn't seem like it was um misaligned any of the things that were made out in that other policy. Um, so it would almost be like serve to
030be more encompassing if we just referenced the other policy that and then said like in addition to that because of working in your board capacity that board members should do x y and z. >> Sure. >> Um, >> are there examples of phrases that would be recommended for? We shouldn't. >> Uh, so you know, each board member shall register at the school office for a visit. That's duplicative. The next one shall receive a visitor pass. That's duplicative. Um the the next one means uh about it's not as specific. It says in the other policy that um it like that the visiting person is the responsibility of the principal basically. Um I don't know but I understand that this is a little bit different about because you want them to be kind of like regularly accompanied.
031So give or take on that one. Um, and then the next piece about avoid I really like this paragraph about to avoid interrupting and distracting blah blah blah blah blah. Um, and was actually thinking that that would be nice to put in the visitor policy. Um it's it's far less um it says something like vaguely like that but not not nearly as fear and really like showing overall like preference in in reference to like teaching and baring and making sure that that's prioritized and I was on a recent call with a PTA where parents were asking um there there seemed to be some misunderstanding about whether parent it's appropriate for parents to just like walk in and like just hang out in the classroom for the day and see what's going on and things that
032could become disruptive. So, it made me think that it might be a good thing to be able to or to shift over so that um school principles have that to kind of fall back on uh with other visitors to the schools as well. Um, >> and if we ask you to move down real quick to the second page, the other policies that are being referenced a little further, the cross reference are visitors to the school, classroom, observations and visits and public conduct on school property. And so parents and caregivers are encouraged to visit their classroom and there's a policy about how that happens. Uh, if you're a visitor of the school, there's a policy about what sort of how that should happen. And then just a general public conduct on school property is one that
033we revised not so long ago. But um and so if I'm hearing correctly at least uh deleting the first the second and third sentence paragraph under the procedure for the visit, I'm fine with the deletion of those. Um and I um also support taking a look at the other policies to see if any language here should be added to those as well. Um, I wrote in my comments at the very last paragraph, it talks about board members should not be permitted to photograph or video or and that that seemed sort of self-explanatory to me and so I didn't feel like we needed to write it in policy. Maybe we do, maybe we don't. And that's why I think I wrote could do, you know, we could easily delete this and any thoughts that folks may
034may have on it. I should also note it's interesting one of the other policies that it demands that board members receive a background check. Right? that that was a very common thing that I saw throughout, right? You can't coach a team in our district without a back and I mean even the youth sports without a background check, right? You can't volunteer without a background check. And so it was interesting. Again, not in the policy. It was just something that um was interesting to read that other districts require for background checks. So if we want to move forward with deleting those two, that we can do right now. Yeah. And then do we want to raise um the reference to well we can think about which policies but I guess it references the visitors to school
035policy like a little bit lower but we could like at the front at the top say you know visits by board members should be um uh in alignment with one to two different policies and we can name those policies and then say like in addition board members are expected or rather that makes sense. >> No, it makes sense. I'm wondering about the flow of the policy if that should be at the beginning or the end. >> Yeah. >> Um I'd be more inclined to put it at the end with language similar to what you're talking about. >> Um including referencing the other policies, but >> yeah. >> Uh that's the beauty of a committee. That's I find >> uh the last paragraph it says could delete this section about taking photographs or uh do we
036feel like we can delete that? >> Is that written anywhere else? Any other policy? >> That is an excellent question. I probably do not believe so. Most of those policies were probably written before the advent of pocket cameras and video recorders. And I'm I'm both joking and not joking. I think one was 2006, right? I don't know when the first iPhone came out. 2005 someone like one of those. >> But so, but I think the the general answer is no. I do not believe and I don't recall seeing that particular paragraph or something similar to that paragraph in other policies. So, we can hold on to it now if need be and then check to see if that's we want to include >> if it's not anywhere else. I think we should keep it so
037we can have it. I I do think that we um I mean if we were going to keep anything, I would advocate for like no visor being able to just come in and take pictures of not getting permission from this person or that person. If we did keep this particular paragraph, I think that it would require that >> individual teachers were going to give the permission a principal to be able to give permission to take pictures in a classroom. But I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable with that either way because they they don't they're not signed and then they don't they don't know anything about students or videos. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's also connected to another policy on our agenda about protection of privacy of student records and the ability to opt in or opt out
038of I know that's our time. I appreciate that Emily keeping us on track. um our people ability to opt in and opt out of um use of image for a host of reasons. So then um next steps uh >> can I bring up one other thing? by all means. Absolutely. >> Um I don't have I don't even really want to weigh in on this right now, but I think like when we speak to the full board about it, I think there's a right now it's board members just need to let the superintendent and the boards know and I want to make sure that we are that that's really the case that anybody can that as long as a board member is like letting the superintendent know that that it can happen. And like I want
039to make sure that there's no like parameters which the superintendent would like to suggest setting about when it would or wouldn't be appropriate. Like I I just I actually just have no idea the superintendent's perspective on this. So I guess I would like to get his perspective on that before um certainly before we voted on anything with the full board. Um yeah. And if we just want to say anything specifically and again I'm not advocating for this. It just made me wonder. >> Right now we don't have a policy or process in place. That's why I have no idea and I haven't honestly I don't even know how I feel about it that made me realize that right now it's written in the way that board members would be led to believe that they could
040be they could they always can they just need to let people know and I just want to make sure that that's what everybody wants with that as building leaders and the superintendent teachers. So, we'll do a quick revamp of this, put it back on the uh April agenda and proceed from there. Is that the is that the goal with asking a couple of questions to the superintendent in IPDA? I was going to say just do that um between the meeting between and then just have it >> Y >> we can work on it and then have it u all right in my notes. Um and I just want to speak to that real quick. Uh I have had conversations with principles in the past about this and often times it depends on the principal and
041it depends on the principal's tenure status. Uh tenure principles are much more likely to say come on into my building. Uh non-tenure principles oftentimes have a little bit more concern because they want to know what if there's a reason behind it as well. So part of the idea is provide a little bit of uh to provide a process that everyone knows to follow. That's that's the idea behind it. not to stop board members from actually to encourage board members to visit schools, but to have a process in place for making that take place. >> Um, and again, this runs a little bit counter to what our legal advice was and what other school districts doing. I don't think we need to vote as a board that folks should have that opportunity as long as everyone
042is aware and superintendent aware as well. So, we'll we'll follow up. All right, next timer. Emily, let's see where this gets us. Uh it is 5:33. Um if uh folks would grant us uh a little bit of grace, um I think we can do three other quick policies and I do mean very quick within five minutes and then spend the rest of our time on the student exeicio member. Um and that is policy 5500, protection of privacy of student records. I believe we are all set with that policy, Katie. as we talked about it and we talked with BSNK, there was nothing that we were doing that was out of line. We were factchecking the dates. The dates seem to work that we're if I'm if my memory is correct that we're all set with
043that policy. Is that >> is that correct? So, we're we're not going to touch the policy. A question was raised, we looked into it, we researched it, we got the answers, and the policy is is good to go. So, no change there. Thank you very much. And then policy 5405 and 5405 uh they both have the same number. Uh Emily had a great suggestion in reading the policies that one looks to be much more of a procedure and that we could simply probably solve this issue by putting the earlier policy as 5405 and the more recent policy as 5405-P which is what we normally do for pol or for procedures or regulations and so I think we had a brief conversation about that as well uh thoughts reactions comments Does that seem to work? >>
044Does that need to be >> That does. That would need to go the name change for the second policy or for the most the more recent policy would have to go to the board for first reading and we could possibly first reading and adoption with a super majority vote. That's more just trying to clean up the policy book. Thank you for that as well. Uh Dan, we'll probably come back to you or Dr. Brandon will probably come back to you about the naming of facilities policy. >> That's fine. >> Uh and so we'll work on that as well. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> that's uh I do want to make mention that that policy is also a little bit of a time constraint that every year and I know we've repeated this over again that we
045get asked about naming spaces, classrooms, libraries, basketball courts, uh playgrounds and so we have had people come this year and ask us about naming spaces as well. So we do want to address that policy and try to find the best path forward. Again, draft version is out there. We recommend thoughts, reactions, but folks, please reach out to us and go from there as well. >> You think that draft version was restricted and that wasn't able to be accessed to review. >> I will fix that right now. >> Thank you so much. >> And again, draft will we'll watermark it as well. >> Totally understood. >> Yep. >> All right. Uh policy 2245 student exeicio member. Uh we have again about 25 minutes to engage in this dialogue and conversation. Um does it make sense for
046us to set a date first rather than run out of time and then try to scramble for a date given that that actually may be the best use of our time forwards. >> Emily that um the facilities the naming of the facility um policy has tons of notes inside. >> Yeah. So, we'll make it we'll make it available in the next day or so. We're going to clean it up a little bit. Um, some of the comments, the questions, but thank you. >> So, I already have the the clean version is what's on board docs. The messy is the one that Dan owns. Got >> that's what I've been working on. So, that sounds good. >> It's not on brand, Dan. >> No, I know it's not on >> uh dates uh between our next
047meeting um is April 7th for a policy. So, if we could find um I would ask for uh well, hold on, my apologies. Uh if we could find a date uh a Wednesday, well, Monday, Wednesday, or Friday will work for me except for one week in mid March. So, I don't know if anyone wants to put a date out there. >> Tuesday. So, so to that point, Emily, I'm looking right now and I have backto back. So, the 31st currently there's not a board meeting scheduled >> because it's spring break. >> ICSD spring break. >> I will be on spring break >> on the 16th >> because I think college and Cornell love having different spring breaks than ICSD. My in-laws are in town on the 23rd, so I would be happy to somewhere. >>
048We're not reporting that. >> Um, I believe I could do that Monday the 23rd >> or Mondays are the best. So, >> would that be at 5? >> Uh, we could decide what time it is. We're not bound by We could do earlier as well if it is more conducive to student participation. We can meet like 4:30. >> If I could do later, I have track practice. >> Oh, just my apologies. You're looking in the other direction. >> Yeah. So, I have practice until 6. So, anytime after that is fine. >> That starts to get a little difficult. >> Five is probably going to be the best. >> Yeah. On what day of the week? >> That's Monday. Right now, we're looking at Monday the 23rd. >> How about How about this then? Right. Rather
049than us trying to fact it right now, how about board members send um Emily a couple of dates and then we can send it out to a couple of student groups and see what is the most available for folks as well. Um one to coordinate our schedules, but we'll know which dates work and then we'll send it out from there and try to get as much as many people as we as we can participate. Um, but I'm making mention that saying that we're not going to be able to get through everything tonight with an expectation that that meeting will solely be dedicated to the student exeicio policy. We'll try to give ourselves 75 to 90 minutes to be able to provide a draft to the board so we can at least start the process of
050moving forward. >> I got to tell you just looking though I think like the 23rd for >> I feel >> it's like pretty much of the of Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I'm never available on Wednesdays. So, >> uh I'm not supposed to. Just hold on to that for the time being. So, >> okay. >> Uh, yep. Let's go ahead and try to move forward. >> 5 p.m. >> We don't know if this room will be available yet, though, right? Great. >> Um, I also want to make sure that folks know Monday, March 23rd is uh National Chip and Dip Day. So maybe we can make that a thing and work that into our meeting as well. So we'll proceed from there. Is >> that like on your calendar? >> It is absolutely on my calendar. >>
051We should get, you know, how Wegman's has that like deconstructed moy disc. >> Yes. Thank you for offering to bring that. Oh, >> we'll contact Wegman. We'll figure something out. But >> that's a dessert tip. We still need a main course tip. >> So, all right. So, let's let's see where we're at here. I know a couple people have some thoughts. Uh I know for me as a board member, it's going to be best to hear feedback. I have my own ideas about what this policy can or should not look like. Um and with that being said, um it's best to probably get feedback and information. Um, I know this is the multiple time we've gone around, but I also again I want to remind folks this is not the only policy that's taken us
052months to be able to come up with a piece of draft. So I I guess my only um or I guess my biggest concern was um in the under the subheading title position of expio student member of the board right under it uh when it's talking about the number of student boards seems like a reduction. So correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that there are four standing committees of the board right now, right? >> Uh typically there are five me typically there are five to six standing committees. >> Okay. So so then given that these change and given that that's less than the the seven representatives that we currently have is could we change that to say three from LAS and four from IHS as we've had for a few years? I
053think that um the four the four at IHS and three at LCS system has worked. Obviously we still have just the two expio um from or one from each school at voting meetings but total um I think that what we had talked about before was having still three from LAS and four from IHS. Um it's the one just saying equal to the number of standing committees. It seems like that would change from year to year and then that's complicated on who gets more uh reps and who doesn't and changes. >> So Judah would I then should I infer from that is that the basic general concept of having student exofficial members participate in the committee process with one student exeicial member at the table during board meetings. is something for right now that you are
054okay that you as one individual are okay. >> Yeah, I I I think I I mean in general I think so. Um my only concern and this is something that u Lionol brought up earlier was that um there might be just just the fact that we're having as my as I understand it having one representative assigned to one committee that wouldn't change throughout the year. Um it seems, you know, Lionel made this point that even if we are communicating between LACS and IHS, um that that committee that we're assigned to is still not necessarily getting the full picture. Um just because if I'm if I'm on the policy committee, uh I can hear from the other LACS reps what is going on at their school, but I can't experience it and I can't see for
055myself. So all of that is going through a filter. And I think that's my only concern with it. Y >> um I I do agree that we should have and I I talked to the other board rep from IHS at least. I think we do agree that it's fine to have just one expio each at the meeting on a rotating basis. Um we you know we understand obviously we're not going to add seven um people that can talk in the meetings um to the voting meetings. But that would be my only concern is the bias in committees. So what you're suggesting, if I'm hearing you correctly, also wouldn't allow for a representative from each school at each committee though, right? With what you're asking for with the four and 30. >> Well, so it would
056be extra. There would be more. Um, and I'm I'm not really trying to I I think that having the four and three um at the schools has worked because of the behind thescenes work that we do where we can all you know at IHS we all have our own separate um communities that we talk to. So it's really helpful for us to have four people to go back and gather feedback. Uh and I would assume that LACS has has a similar experience. Um, but regarding bringing that to the board, um, I do having seven reps and four to five committees, it's guys complicated. So, I'm not really sure how how we get around that. You know, maybe we do a rotating thing in the committees like we're doing board, but it seems complicated. I'm just
057not sure. Um, I'm just not sure about that one. >> I'm going to be totally honest. I think that my struggle is Sorry, were you going to say something? >> No, no, I'm coming. My apologies. >> Um, >> doing math over here in my head. >> Um, I want to make sure that like the the idea of how many students that there is like a a concrete reason that is directly tied to the overall to a shared vision of what the student what what a role like a student rep is supposed to um the impact that it's supposed to have and what it's supposed to do. And so the second while it might not be the right one thinking about okay making sure that we have student at every committee to make sure that there's
058a student voice like feels like a concrete we don't want to be missing the student voice saying well we've been doing that and I'm not saying that you're saying that but like well we've been doing it kind of foreign worked you know we should then I I'm like you know even thinking about like what Ace was saying like there there is some truth to the fact that like not every single rap is as engaged as the next student prep is and we certainly see some who are here far far less than than others certainly recognizing that nobody's always going to be here and even just like who chooses to engage in the conversations and not and so I want I thinking about the number is just one way of kind of thinking about and making
059sure that those decisions are being made with the goal of making it the most meaningful role then to make it so that as many people have the opportunity or whatever it is. So, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just kind of raising the like the why. >> I don't Yeah. So, I'm thinking maybe if we could change the language to um rather than equal to the number, we could have at least uh the number of board standing committees. Um that way it would allow it allow us still think I do agree with you. I think that we should be aiming to have a meaningful role. Um, and so I think it is valuable to have uh at least one rep at each committee. Um, but I think that on our side when we're
060not at the meetings, it's useful to have the numbers that we've had. Um, and we found that those numbers really work well for us. Um, so if we could have at least uh equal to the amount of standing committees, I think that give us some room to to decide as schools how many reps we have. And just by way of information, this year is somewhat unique, right? In the number of committees that we have, we have the curriculum committee, we have the policy committee, we have the HR committee, and we have the finance and facilities committee. If the board or if the voters were to pass a capital project that is planned for May, it is most likely that the finance facilities committee would split again because the amount of work that they do is
061is going to be significant and it's different. And so that would leave us with five standing committees and the audit committee though I don't know how many folks want to spend time at the audit committee. Uh though I recommend it highly right but so just in terms of what structure would look like most likely the board would approve five standing committees next year is what I would anticipate um would you know unless something else changes dramatically but I would assume that would be the structure that we would have. I have a I'm sorry, just a quick idea. Um because it makes me just because of the same reason and just being mindful of the other activities and curriculum that you guys have going on. if it's beneficial for us to separate the ex official with
062the and and put it as a working uh with the student reps, the um superintendent um advisory council as a and the you know like other groups and then together y can organize >> and make sure that like you said it's not just three here or you're trying to figure out who can attend, but instead of um the ex official will work with all the groups and making sure that you know what I mean like it's more a unanimous >> um group effort between students and and just working together. >> Yeah. Um so just I what I want to say and this relates to like the things the things I told Judah at the beginning of the meeting but like the the language about uh the number of exeicials being equal to the Netherlands committees
063is a different picture in terms of what the exicial role is than we've talked about previously. It seems to me like this is a kind of new rule in which students at IHS and LAS elect um individuals who will basically represent the entire school community in the whole district collectively. And I think that like I think that the the problems with this policy come with like reckoning the way that we've already had board reps and the way that exeicials are taking on a much broader role here. And I just want to say like first of all I don't think IHS and LAS are a model together. Like as a student of IHS, what I've always considered to be the role of boards is to advocate specifically for IHS interests. And I know we've had the
064broadway cooperation between IHS and LCS boards this year. I don't see any reason to codify something that will kind of rely on their interest being aligned in the future because if it is true that we're sending maybe the LAS is the one LAS is a school that has representative to the quintum and IHS policy committee then there's a disagreement between schools over policy then there's no way that that could work out. Um, so I guess I I I just want to make it clear like I think that a lot of the value of the board rep system is this kind of dynamic representation of like we are tied to our school to advocate for the students of our school. And when we make it a broader role that is kind of elected only by one
065school but then has to represent all these other schools, I'm worried about how the representation is going to work. Um, also I'd like to point out that I like the the idea of board reps as advocates for their schools uh for the reason that they actually compensate for one of the biggest uh weaknesses or limitations of the superintendent advisory council and that we're a big group. We represent the we try and represent a more district-wide perspective. We deliberate on a lot of these issues so we can get this very this bird's eye view of questions. But there's also a lot that can easily slip through the cracks that wouldn't slip through the cracks if you have proactive board reps who are going around in your school and talking to people. Yeah. Uh so that's like
066my first point and this relates to anytime basically it says like provide all students with an opportunity or the elected by the student body. I think that a final draft needs a lot more clarification of which bodies that's referring to, who's getting represented, who gets to vote on these representatives and how are they interacting. And the second thing, this is just a little clarification from the public comment stuff at the beginning of the meeting. I think there's like I think you guys have expressed like not really understanding where this idea of the hostility towards collective bargaining and labor is coming from. I just want to say that it's um under responsibilities the second paragraph that miss the draft the second paragraph that Miss Kona has recommended adding um is what we have kind of been
067confused over. I'm sure like I definitely don't want students like engaging in legally like critical matters. I don't think that makes sense at all. But I think that the current language of kind of like shall not engage in advocacy related to is very broad and it's kind of unclear like how this is enforced and like whether that like what what level of advocacy from the scale of like saying something in a meeting to like organize in a group such where is the line drawn on that and I don't think this current language is really what that is. Yeah. And I want to touch on that >> before before we back up. So here's the tension point that we have to sort of resolve. The idea of this policy is that the student would be a
068board member. >> Yeah. >> Board members do not engage in those things. And so we're trying to find a a policy that does not silence students but also provides a larger voice at the table as an as an exofficial board member. It's much like the work that I do with our student board of trustee members, right? that they're there to serve as a student trustee at Ithaca College, but they're a trustee member and so their role changes. It's different. And so there is a I just want to make sure we acknowledge the tension point. So I I can see how that paragraph read that way or that line read that way would create difficulty or I'm I'm I hear what you're saying. I reading it differently now. So I appreciate that. I still have some
069other questions, David, which we'll get to. You can call me at any time, right? But I also want us to be able to understand that the current system we have now is vastly different than someone becoming, for lack of a better word, an exofficial board member. The role shifts and I'm not sure that we're all in agreement that that should happen, right? I think that's a big I I don't know that we all want that to happen. So I I think there is something that's something for us to talk about and agree upon. >> Being a student rep is different than being a board member. I appreciate your clarification on that because I was not I didn't know that you guys aren't allowed to um like I didn't know you guys weren't allowed to advocate
070for that stuff. So I mean that is interesting and I I do agree with you that if we're going to be expos board members. Um so I agree with you on that actually. I think the language can be clarified and so I don't want to say that this language is what board members are are beholden to but I do think there is a nuance there that there are some things that board members are not allowed to speak about. There are some things that board members are not allowed to advocate for. We cannot as a board we cannot tell people to vote for a school budget. We can say we support the budget. We can say please go out and vote but we're not allowed to say please do this. seems seems foolish, but that's some
071of the things that we're beholden to. So, trying to find out what that what that is. I can see you're you're on all kinds of uh reactions, Emily. Quick response >> that you have on my office. This is the first this is the first time that that has kind of been um verbalized in this way of really talking about the exeicio um student rep being a member of the board which is very different from which I I acknowledge that you're you're saying this but I just I want to like when we're thinking about it that way it is very different I think than most of the conversations we've had about drafting this policy. It's very different about the conversations we've had with students about their roles. Um I even uh had a conversation with the
072uh advisor of the at the school student reps recently and we definitely had a conversation that I felt was uh extremely helpful for me to think about but in like the opposite way about the the distinction between the board, the student reps and um and the community. So, and and how they're able to like their role and their advocacy advocacy even student body is like very complicated when we talk about them being actual members of the board which then does make me >> I don't know it just it really I so then like do we have do we have people who are in two very distinct roles? Do we allow for board reps to be involved and have like a completely separate definition of what like one or two exeicios are that will um increase
073their opportunities to engage in some ways and also kind of limit their opportunities to engage in others. um which is different than trying to kind of combine them all into one policy which I'm feeling is >> this is my point about beginning by saying we're trying to retrofit what we do into a new legal mandate >> and the new legal mandate is trying to get student voice at the table >> to be to be a participant with board members like again part of the board we're trying to provide space for student advocacy and for students to let us to continue to inform board members. And so that's my I think that's why we need longer conversations about is it does it actually limit student voice if we're trying to abide by this exhibition policy. And
074I should make note if I'm not mistaken, we do not need to change what we're doing. Right? We are grandparented in because we've already been doing it since 200 whatever the date was 2008. I want to see the date list, right? Maybe it's 2002, right? But so there's no there's not a need or requirement for us to change because we've had student reps for so long. We can do it in different ways. Um so we're not mandated as the mandate says. And I'm not trying to add more confusion. I'm trying to make sure we get to a place where everyone feels like students can advocate, students have voice, and we still abide by what the the mandate is asking us to do even if we have a chance to say, "Hey, we like our process.
075Leave us alone." Can I just say very quickly um I think that I you guys raised good points that um you know if we're going to be board members board members >> but I think that given the fact that exacio board members can't go into executive session I think that that raises a need because part of our role is to express student opinion um and so you know students do have opinions about um negotiations and I know that you guys usually talk about that executive session so I Um, you know, I'm interested in including the student rep role. I I don't think that they should be split. I don't think there should be separate elections because I think that confuse could could confuse students. Um, but one thing I'm thinking about is this something we
076had talked about months ago, but maybe we have um, you know, still have all the reps here, but then um, you know, two are designated as expio for each meeting. >> For a meeting. >> Yeah. And so then the reps could voice their opinions um in that meeting about, you know, whatever they wanted, but the ecacio board members would serve as board members would. >> Um mindful time over real quick. Are there questions that folks have that they need or they want to have answered so I can capture those? email. >> Quick thing I wanted to bring up is when I under additional provisions, it mentions violation may result in removal from the position as determined by the board. There's no mention of any kind of due process or like a notice or right to
077respond. So, >> so the one thing I want to do is I want to share the sample policy that was given to us by the New York State School Board Association so folks can see the language that we were recommended to approve um just to get an idea of the change that we've done so far. So, all that's a good question as well. I will ask Emily to reach out to as many folks as possible about this additional meeting date. We'll try to have some conversations amongst us as well and try to capture some of this and maybe send something out in advance. In the meantime, please do email us with questions, feedback, conversation, etc. Does that seem to work folks? >> Yes. >> Apologies about the short time. We'll work on that. >> Well,
078thank you so much for deciding to do this at all. Very helpful. >> We are We are learning. We are learning. Yep. Thank you for coming here alone. Appreciate it. Good folks. We will bring our meeting to a close and we'll be in touch. So we have tomorrow.