001August 26th, 2025 meeting to order. Uh, and we will entertain motions. >> I move to enter into executive session for the purpose of discussions regarding current litigation, collective negotiations pursuant to article 14 of the civil service law, employment history of a particular person or matters leading to the appointment, employment, promotion, demotion, discipline, suspension, dismissal or removal of particular person. >> I second. Moved by Adam, second by Karen. Uh question, debate, discussion. We will call the question. All in favor? The motion passes. Uh thank you all very much. Uh we anticipate being back at 7 p.m. for the public part of our meeting. We'll see you all shortly. Uh, first asking my colleagues, are there any modifications to the agenda? Hearing none, we'll continue on to agenda item 4.1. I do not believe anyone has signed
002up to speak. >> No. So, there is no public comment for this evening. and I always say it. That means I hope there's no board responses. Uh that'll bring us to the consent agenda and we will entertain motions. >> I move to approve all consent agenda items listed in the consent agenda. Considerations of accounts, personnel report, students, and minutes of previous meeting as presented. >> Second. >> Moved by Adam, second by Jacob. uh questions, conversations, debate, discussion. Uh says Dr. Bllelock, should I assume that the uh considerations of accounts were reviewed during the facilities and finance committee? That's correct. And everyone's good with the bids and everything else that are on here. Uh, it was an interesting I think this is the first time we had disposal of surplus equipment and we had photos. So,
003thank you for those. That was helpful rather than a list. That was good. And if there are no other questions or discussion, we'll call the question. All in favor? The motion passes. Fantastic. That will bring us on to agenda items uh 9.1, the superintendent report. Dr. Brown, >> thank you for the opportunity and and no long report tonight other than we've had new teachers in today. Uh we're in active preparation for the opening of school next week. Other educators are going to be coming back this week as well. So looking forward to welcoming young people back this next next week or so and excited and a special thank you to all the folks who have been in buildings already prepping. So looking forward to the the next superintendent report will be much longer as we
004share how the opening has gone. >> Yeah. >> Well, thank you to our uh crew of folks who helped get our schools in order. I've been visiting a couple schools. I know there's still some work that needs to be done between now and the start of school and appreciate all the time and energy they'll put into. Appreciate what our teachers have been doing, our food service folks. And I think I can speak on behalf of all caregivers and say Wednesday cannot come soon. >> Here we go. >> There we go. Uh, next agenda item would be our school district business and we are set to have a conversation and possible action steps on a capital project that we have been in some discussion for probably over a year now. Uh, but here we find ourselves
005and I am is uh Chris going to join us as well as Dr. Briman. Is that who's >> Yes. >> Thank you very much. >> Welcome. And Dr. Brown, um, because folks will start paying attention right around this time, didn't know if it is good for you or Dr. Blac or whoever to just provide a little bit of context for this conversation about how we got here or I don't know if that's going to be part of it to the >> why are we having a conversation about the capital project? >> Oh, yeah. Yes, of course. Of course. So, um, you know, as a district, we're obviously we're concerned about maintaining, uh, a healthy and productive environment for our our teachers, our staff, our students, and this is part of that. So, we need to
006make investments in our physical plant to ensure that we fulfill our educational mission in a healthy and safe way. And so, uh, Chris is going to guide us through that process. >> Thanks, Gary. >> Yeah. and thank you for the opportunity to speak to you this evening. Um, I'll frame this discussion. >> Oh, you needed the mics because you were going to give this presentation. Thanks. So this conversation is uh continuing on from various conversations that that uh we have had over uh as Sean alluded the the significant amount of months. Uh so hopefully there's nothing you know terribly new or surprising in this. Um we're seeking confirmation to move forward with this uh with this capital project. We'll go through the scope um but we've reviewed if not this identical scope very very similar
007scopes scopes of work at um the board of education meetings at facility committee meetings at monthly meetings that are held uh with ICSD tetrate architects and engineers and your construction manager campus construction management um where we you know get into into a lot of the details and discuss this. So, um, tonight we're seeking approval to move forward and I'll outline some of the next steps as we go through this. We'll review the scope of work and, um, happy to entertain questions, um, as we go. Uh, but I'll I'll just kind of go through it. Please, um, you know, wave at me or kick me or something if you want to uh, chime in or say something or ask questions. So, we'll start with schedule and the vertical red dashed line is showing us, you know,
008near the end of August. We're hoping to confirm the scope uh with the board tonight. Couple of the next steps would include a conversation to um just organize the logistics around the bond referendum uh language. And for that you have a a suite of professionals that helps you with that. You have bond counsel, you have your attorney, you have um your architect, construction manager and uh fiscal adviserss as well um that comes together as a group, reviews the scope of work um and determines those uh the referendum language. you will um hopefully approve those um those resolutions at the September 23rd meeting. There is a requirement that um those resolutions are adopted by the school board at least 45 days before the actual public vote. So this gives us, you know, plenty of time to
009do that within the required time frame. Um we also will begin the communications to the public. Okay. So that's a separate um piece of work that includes you know in the past it has included um public sessions. It has included digital outreach is it has included presence at you know certain events. So, we'll look at the schedule um and dive into that uh soon after, you know, after hopefully uh we have direction to move forward after this evening. Okay. Uh we're targeting a December 9th public vote date. So, any questions about that so far? So, here's an overview and we'll go into a little more detail um on on each of these items, but this is a scope of work that um we have been we've been reviewing and crafting over recent months that seem
010to have a lot of support. Um so, I'll dive into that. Uh one of the larger items on here is roofing. So, the roofs in uh that have been identified uh to have the highest need are at Boon, BJM, and at Caroline. And we have some square footages figured out and the vintages of the roofs um which are, you know, starting to exhibit leaks. Uh we'll say that for for a lot of these scope items, we look at several different factors to determine need. One of those is just age of the system or the component. one is demonstration of failure in some way. Um, another is warranty period as an indication of um exposure by the district to a system that that might fail without a lot of protection. And so, you know, the roofs
011in this case sort of check all those boxes. I'd like to go back for a moment and cover a point um that I didn't make earlier, which is to the public vote. Um I want to clarify that when you seek authorization from the public to um approve bonding capacity up to a certain amount, that is what the voters are giving you authorization to do. It's not that you suddenly, you know, go out and borrow all that money. It is not that, you know, you have that sitting in a bank account somewhere. Um, and as as Ben can share, certainly um part of the typical strategy is you only seek uh bonding capacity for the projects as you move through them, right? So, it's um you know, scheduled out um and you have advisers to do
012that in the most uh prudent way. So, I just wanted to make sure that that was clear in terms of, you know, some folks think of it as like a line of credit almost that, you know, you have a capacity. You don't necessarily need to to um borrow up to that capacity. Um, but we've identified certain scope items and arrived at a number um to to have some uh specificity with the number that uh we're proposing and um and what that what that would cover. So, thanks. Okay, back to roofing. Okay, science rooms. You want to chime in? >> Sure. Yeah. I'm Dan Brimman. I'm the assistant superintendent of operations. I just wanted to share about the science classrooms. U as you can see in the pictures, these are the existing cabinet. It's the existing
013cabinetry from over 50 years ago. Uh we would like to renovate um these cabinets and these science classrooms. uh it has deteriorate deteriorated um and I can say I was a student at Dit Middle School and it has not changed >> uh since it it's still the same uh vintage color as well. >> So um uh we'd also like to upgrade the gas to meet code requirements and have a safety shut off. This will help us participate in more uh curriculum work involving uh uh gas as well. Um, and we'd also like to support um the, you know, amazing STEM uh initiative that's happening over at the high school and have other science classrooms that feed into what we're doing at Itha High School. And uh so we're looking at six classrooms at DIT, three
014at Boon. Uh three at Boon had already been done uh had been renovated um approximately six years ago. Is that correct? >> Sounds about right. >> Okay, good. Thanks. Fire alarms. Right. So, we're talking about some real important infrastructure. Um, two buildings that we've identified again uh due to age of the system uh reported um interruptions to instruction uh are Ithaca High School and South Hill. These are two buildings where part of the system is an older analog system. part of the system especially after some of the renovations are a new um code compliant uh digital system. Um and so having those two systems uh in the same building are uh create some challenges. I should add that we have had commu the communication of these two systems has been difficult for us and with
015the old analog system if we have a firearm it's hard for us to identify where the location is and pinpoint that quickly and it c it can cause uh students to wait outside longer. It it can cause longer instructional interruptions. Um, we believe if we had an addressable system, now the addressable system will tell us exactly where um, you know, which fire alarm is going off, we can get to it quickly. We can shut it down and we can have less interruptions. We believe that this will uh, be better for Itha High School and for South Hill. >> So, under wellness, we're talking about nursing suites um, pretty much throughout the district. Um there was a significant renovation done at Ethica High School just a couple years ago. So that one's in in pretty good
016shape. Uh but the main uh issues to address there are ADA, that's Americans with Disabilities Act, so Handicap Accessibility uh for those. There's also um some storage and just efficiency improvements that can be made uh to allow the the um you know the your great staff to support wellness throughout the district with those with those facilities. Uh more specifically at BJM uh that's a relatively old building and there has been you know some settlement uh especially in in this part of town that you know used to be a swamp a couple hundred years ago. >> Um so that's not unusual. We see that you know in a lot of your buildings actually with some cracks forming um in the nursing suite there, you know, there is some uh some cracking of walls that we want
017to address. There have been some temporary measures done to stabilize some of the walls, but this is a longer term uh solution that would address uh address the movement that we're seeing there. We have discussed HVAC at Ithaca High School and Boon Middle School over a few recent meetings. Uh so thanks for your patience and going over that a few times to get to uh decision and providing us direction on a on a complicated issue. This is to provide so in in the slide tons is a term is a unit of mechanical engineering. So uh it speaks to the size and the amount of cooling that is um intended to be provided by the system that we're proposing to build in this project. What that system does is provide the cooling to a lot of
018the mechanical equipment that many of you may see being installed in Ithaca High School right now and over subsequent summers. So there are a couple pieces to this. Right now you're doing the unit ventilators that you know the individual uh pieces of equipment. this project, this piece of the project that we're talking about provides the cooling backup to that. The reason we're talking about and we've had this conversation now is that there was a plan to utilize the Cornell Lake Source cooling system to expand the capacity. You currently have about 400 tons of cooling that you've been using since uh the late 1990s uh through an agreement with Cornell. uh we were planning and were far along in discussions with Cornell uh to expand that system to cover the whole high school and then uh
019they their permit came under scrutiny from the DEC and so they they had to in turn uh let the team know that they weren't going to be able to expand the cooling offering. So uh so we're pivoting and this is the solution uh that we came up with that pivot. >> Okay, athletics. Um, so I've talked a few times about bleachers. Um, just going to add, as you can see some of the by some of the pictures, we have a section because the bleachers aren't manufactured anymore. We have a section right now that we're using for parts. Um, because that's the only place we can get the parts at this time. Um, unfortunately, what that does is it doesn't pro provide enough seating for a pep rally or for large athletic events. Um, you can
020also see we have uh failed handrails in multiple locations. Um, that has to that has to be excuse me that's a safety issue of course with people walking up and holding on to it. Um, as well um, as you can see on the picture on the right, the structure and the frame of the bleachers and the seats coming out is actually bent. So, we have a hard time getting it in and getting it out, which takes our um our staff a lot of extra time uh to do. And then also, there's numerous um hazards where people can get their clothes stuck in uh their pinch hazards where they get stuck, but there's also seats that have sunk down. Uh so, we would we we really do need to replace all the bleachers here. If you
021look in the middle of the slide, there's also the buoyant uh floor. We have had water intrusion coming from underneath the floor as well as um by the door as well. So, we will need to replace that as well and do some gradient work. Floor abatement, another exciting subject, but really important to providing safe and um high quality facilities for students. Um there are a number of areas in Ithaca High School that have um what we call vinyl asbestous tile, VAT. Um it's floor tile or the mastic, which is the the black in this picture glue that is adhering the tiles to the floor. Um, so there's a variety of combinations of whether it's the tile or the mastic, but you have um asbestous containing material in in a lot of buildings as many many
022buildings, school buildings across New York State have. So it's not necessarily a problem if it is contained. What we're seeing though in some areas is some of those materials are starting to degrade. So when you see, you know, pieces coming off, that's a clear sign that um you you want to address those items. uh your staff does a good job of trying to encapsulate that and keep that under under control. Um and we see a good amount of wax on this floor, keeping that stuff in place. Um but we're looking to to um to really get get in there and remove some of the flooring uh and that mastic. So that's at Ethica High School. We've also identified a number of areas um at Caroline, but there are many different buildings uh across the district
023that that are opportunities for this. Uh the map at the right just shows um an abatement survey of the flooring materials, right? So um there's been a lot of attention paid to assessing, you know, where the materials are, where they aren't, what areas uh would need to be addressed. Next up is Kauga Heights Paving. So if you've been out there, um you might see I'll give you a technical term that may I may have mentioned in one of the previous meetings. uh the bottom left hand photo exhibits a pattern that we call dead alligatoring. So you can use that term to to sound um you know very knowledgeable about this, but it's a it's a typical pattern of of of asphalt failure. And so when you see that, you know that that's breaking down at
024a level um that you know you start to see pieces, you know, coming out of it and it's just a good indication that that asphalt is ready for replacement. Um you can see some of the patching. Uh your facilities department has done a great job keeping it going as for as long as as it it has been going. Um but when again when you see patches like that, it's another indication that there's something happening that you know would be addressed um with a with a full replacement. The picture at the bottom is a is a uh drain that's you know just has some water intrusion. So you see that hole in the front of the picture. uh that's not what we like to see. We want to see the water going into the great, not,
025you know, bypassing the great. Um so that's that's some improvements there at Kuga Heights. Um playgrounds, we've talked a lot as well about playgrounds. Um some of the the um criteria that we use to assess what playground um to assess the needs of different playgrounds um include of course age of the facility, what um what damage you know is being happened or just normal wear and tear. I mean kids are out on the playground being physical and so this equipment sees a lot of um a lot of wear and tear as you would imagine from kids. So in you know in the middle you can see structures that just you know over time uh wear down and parts you know fall off. Uh so we look also at the density of use. Uh so we
026have a couple pictures here at at BJM. So that's a location that has um a lot of students but also a lot of community use as well. I would just add you can see in the picture that we're missing a number of parts as the uh age of the playground because of the age of the playground sometimes it's hard for us to find to replace these parts. So that's just a similar to like the bleachers basically we we we have a hard time finding replacement manufactured parts um as it ages if that makes sense. And in the Enfield picture, you can also see um that uh there there isn't a lot of playground equipment. So that could be that could be an opportunity to add a few um things that's maybe age appropriate. I believe
027that's for um pre for younger children. >> Okay. >> That's me. bathrooms, you know, the the hits keep coming. But you want to talk about start for for bathrooms, we've talked in OECM of a lot of short-term and long-term solutions right now. Uh short-term, we're looking at privacy strips. We're looking at combating the odor by using lots of different products, but also looking at epoxy. That has come out of a lot of our um conversations. Um, also if you look at BGM, we have a hundred-y old marble in the in the bathroom. Figuring out and that's very it's a very porous material. So figuring out what to do with that um because it's probably not going to help. But so we're looking at uh shortterm that we can do with facilities, but also long-term that
028we can do um through a capital project as well. Um, in terms of long-term privacy, we're looking at um uh dividers that provide more privacy for students um in the stalls because this was built obviously uh for older children and um um more age appropriate uh sinks and items like that. >> Yep. There is a piece of EV infrastructure um in this as well. This has been focused quite a bit to just providing some critical infrastructure. So this is the transformer, some conduits, switch gears, really just some like very basic electrical equipment and conduits to set you up for the long term to be able to add um chargers over time. This would include, you know, a budget for a certain number of level three chargers. Technolog is changing quite a bit. we you know
029estimate it every couple months and the the numbers are you know are very different. So we've just kind of established a budget. Uh this will um support the charging of the buses that you already have in a more efficient manner. Uh currently you're charging them with uh just less powerful chargers um because we're working with the existing electrical capacity of that bus garage which it was built I think in 1969. Um so upgrades there. Um as well uh another technical item the HVAC control systems. So these are the systems that tell all the individual units what to do and when and how much. And so those digital systems um are aging out in some buildings. In some cases they are uh pneumatic systems. So there's air being blown through tubes to tell valves when to
030open and close. Uh so installing modern digital systems um in those buildings has an impact on energy efficiency. Um if you taught in Buon or Dwit, you know, some years ago before we did that project, you would probably have experienced uh interesting temperatures at at times of years, we'll say. Um and so that's uh much more under control now and you have control over um energy usage as well more than you did. So, we're looking at Bell Sherman, BJM, Cuga Heights, um, and Caroline as the first, uh, crop of buildings that, uh, that that are most in need. >> The only thing I would add is we've been told of really long lead times for transformers. >> That's correct. >> So, getting ahead of that, um, would make a lot of sense. Uh, well, how
031long were the lead times we were hearing? Um, we've experienced a year and a half plus uh from when you order a transformer to when it shows up on your site. >> Yeah, we just purchased one. It was about a year to get it. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Okay. >> So, still procurement issues um that we've been experiencing since COVID. Y >> So, supply chain still um being affected by that. >> And again, this is just a repetition of the slide beforehand uh at the beginning. So, if there are any questions, um, happy to entertain them. Um, and just want to repeat that we're looking for approval if this, uh, this capital project meets with your approval to continue on to the next steps. >> I got to leave early, so I want to
032get this question in quickly. Um, the fire alarms, and that was on the fire alarm ADA slide. I just want some clarity. you know, the I don't want to call them clocks because it was such a blow up, but you know, the systems that we have had put into our schools that include the clocks, how do the fire alarms differ from that upgrade? >> They're different systems. Okay. >> Different. >> And can you just just for folks listening, can you just explain what's separate and different about them and why it's important to have both? >> This one. >> Um, so fire alarm systems include detection. So, it's the little I don't know if there's some around here. Um little um ceiling typically ceiling mounted um detection devices like you might have in your home. That's
033what senses the smoke. It also has notification devices. That's the thing that makes noise or flashes um in the in the case of school. um and the panels that control that and the panels that first responders would go to to figure out, you know, what is under alarm, where do I need to go to do that. So that is a system that um operates independently from other communication systems. There are code requirements for the the quality of that system and how it needs to operate and how it needs to be tested and all those pieces. So that's a system. Um the other other systems in the building include uh more and more a combination unit like a box you might see on the wall that includes various functions. It includes timekeeping function. It includes a
034PA function. It in can include emergency messages scrolling across the screen if you have that sort of model that supports that um that type of screen information. Um, so that's a different system than the fire alarm system. >> There's absolutely no connection between the two. >> And yet it bears repeating that the second one you were talking about is a safety communication network which happens to include the ability to tell time. >> That's correct. >> Yes. >> I had some follow-up questions on that. Those are my my questions. Is the fire alarm system um because it's 5.1 million to upgrade it. Was that the right number? I'll yeah while you look for I'll continue the I I heard the the one benefit maybe I missed it was that um we can get kids back into
035classes quicker >> and and what I'm trying to like quantify in my mind is how often do we have fire alarms? How much time are we talking is an extra like two minutes times you know x amount of so that's why I'm wondering like for $5.1 million what are we getting and could that money be better spent elsewhere like if it's talking about like life safety we're talking about saving lives I think that's different but if it's time in the classroom I I kind of want to understand how much time are we talking about saving for 5.1 >> I think it's a both end it's life safety we have had significant instructional interruptions where students have been out of class for 15, 20, even 30 minutes if we can't. Sometimes the fire department has come
036here and they cannot locate exactly where the fire smoke head rather, sorry, where the smoke head is. I think we've gone beyond 30 minutes. Um this past summer I think we've had um four or five times uh just in the summer where we haven't been we haven't been able students are we're not in the building but we haven't been able to find where the source is and it's taken us considerable time. I think that's not just an instructional interruption, but that's also um you know, we're losing valuable time. Um if it's if we're having a hard time with it communicating properly, if that makes sense. >> It it does. And what what I'm hearing, I just want to make sure I'm I'm following. >> You can jump. >> Sounds like faulty heads, you know, like
037that happens in our buildings, too. Like something goes off. there's not an actual fire or an issue, but you know, you're trying to determine like where is this thing so we can shut it off. Is that what we're talking about? Or there's been like situations where there's been a fire and we can't determine where the fire is because that's where the life safety comes in versus like a technical issue because this almost sounds like it's solving a technical issue which is then getting the kids in the class more. And I'm just trying to like fully understand what the problem is that we're solving for 5.1 million. >> I think it's both. Yeah, >> we've had times where students have set it off and we've had to find where that is um in bathrooms. That's typically
038in bathrooms. >> Um and there has been um some reason for it going off. Um, so um I think there's there well I don't think I know there's life safety issues and there's um a lot of time trying to figure out where it is which um in and we don't know whether it's an emergency sometimes or not. We don't know if it's a dirty smoke head or if it's somebody in the bathroom. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense? I don't need to Yeah. Go ahead. If I can add I mean this is we're going from an analog to a digital system and a system that's nearing the end of life. Yes. So at some point we need to replace this system and that number is only going up. I think I saw this number
03910 years ago and it was not that much and I knew uh we can push this down the road another 5 years or so. But so this is a big number. It's only going to go up and it's something we need to replace at some point very soon. >> So the systems also to the point of of failure because it's it's so that that's a different I didn't hear that part. I want to yeah maybe maybe I didn't say that clearly but in my six I think six years with facilities we've had times where we've had to uh replace communication wires from one building to the next uh spec we had to replace a very long communication from the from the gym uh all the way to the counselor suite um and we um as
040to doc to Dr. Brown's point as it ages th that communication is certainly breaking down and when um the JCI technician comes out he you know well I'm you know he he says it's time for us to to come into the digital age. >> Yeah. >> To can I just also add to Todd's point though? Let's also have a conversation about the reality of what we're asking for. >> Yeah. We're not asking if we go to the slide with the total number on it. Uh this would not be projects that would all be undertaken in a single year, >> right? >> This would be in phases. >> Yeah. >> And so this one sounds like it has a little bit more emergency if we're talking about the possibility of fire and locating where it may
041be identified. And with that being said, there still may be times if this is in phase two for us to explore more of what Todd's question may be about. Is this the most financially expedient approach to take at this point in time? I hear end of life. I hear significant safety concerns. I hear better communication. The fact that we have this problem before with other systems of both analog and digital does not make much sense. >> Yeah. >> And the board would have an opportunity to have a conversation about prioritizing which if any which of these would take priority in a first phase to be able to finance. And so I just want to make sure that the community knows that as well that there is an opportunity to continue to vet some of the
042projects to decide if this is what we're going to be spending our money on um before we have to put any plans in the sED before we have to commit to the costs that may be incurred and more importantly the benefits that we may get on the flip side around student safety and sustainability. Is that I hope that's fair. Yeah, >> said Sam. >> I I would also say this is not just Ithaca High School, it's also South Hill. I don't know if you wanted to add the South Hill Fire alarm. >> Uh yeah, so this represents over 300,000 square feet. So it's approaching a third of your district, right? So it is a lot of work. So there there's a high number to that. Um to put a finer point on safety concerns, you're
043a first responder and you show up to an alarm and you have a zone system, which is the old analog system. You know somewhere in this zone something is sensitive, right? if you if you show up and you have a modern digital system, you know exactly which head is going up and so you can get to that location um more quickly. And so that's I think part of the reason that these systems have been improving over time. So it does actually it adds that measure of safety. >> I appreciate the question. >> Once we once we find the analog, it's not bad. It actually takes us some time to put it back up too. Um, it can take us considerable time to to to get it back online. >> We're good on Good. >> Okay.
044Any other question? >> No, I mean, I said quick math. So, 300,000 square feet, it's $20 a square foot. That seems like a lot. >> These are numbers that we work with campus construction management that are supported by bids that they're monitoring uh >> throughout the market. So, it's a market twice. That's that's what we use. >> I mean, just just for context, I know it's different. Like we we just wire we're wiring up a building right now. We're like $28 a square foot and that's all the rough that's all electrical including like fixtures and stuff and that's also like all of our low voltage security fire alarm system and then you know lights, switches, all the wires and I know it's different because I know it's cool but um yeah I just just point
045throwing that out there. >> I think you we should underscore your point. um building in a school environment with state ed approvals and all the different clothes I've had to learn is significantly different from building a home in your line of work and others and our community needs to understand that because these numbers are bigger >> by design >> and and one one good thing to um realize is that we had Travis report at the facilities and finance committee last week and we went out to vote in 2019 and had a referendum and there is some excess because maybe bids shifted here and there, the dollar amount was less that we will be able to utilize to other areas, not necessarily these. So, um, in going to these monthly OACM meetings, what I've realized is
046that there's always room for shifts and we accommodate that and we know that we're um that our staff is doing their due diligence and funding everything and making sure everything is appropriately funded. And just for information for the community, especially as we welcome new families to this community and they might not be aware of this process of us going on and talking about a capital project and and in prior years we've had it around the budget vote in May, but we've decided this year we wanted to separate it and have it at a later time. Other school districts do that. We're not the only ones to take this on. So, we are looking if we vote on this as a board that we will go to the community to vote in December, December 9th. >>
047To underscore Karen's point, if folks want to take a look at last December, a number of our regional neighbors uh had a December capital project. Uh I want to say eight or nine of them at the very least within the southern tier in central New York uh that I'm aware of. We can definitely pull a list for new board members to get an idea of the ways in which other boards have been going out for capital projects as well. Dr. Blac, you were going to please. >> Well, I I mean, I think it's mostly been said, but I it bears repeating. I mean, these are investments in um health and wellness. These are investments in productive instructional spaces. Uh and these are investments that as stewards of the public's assets that we need to make
048to maintain the value of this property. you know, you let roofs go and buildings get worse. So, you know, these are the kind of maintenance things that a good homeowner would do to their home. And, you know, we're the homeowners here and these are the things I think that the public is asking us to do. So, uh for all three of those reasons, I think this is a reasonable uh ask. I think this is what the community would expect of us to do, you know, as responsible managers of these assets. Now, I think there's some good questions, Todd. I think the questions you're asking about when you get into the details of, you know, one of the projects on here, you know, are there adjustments or better ways? And the answer may in many cases
049be yes. But I just remind the public what we're asking for here is authorization to get a line of credit to pursue these projects. And then as each of these projects comes before us, we'll then dive into, you know, some of the details and there may be adjustments or alterations or ways to do a little bit better. What we're asking for here, I think though, is is a line of credit to do what is responsible for again, you know, health and wellness, uh, effective learning spaces and what we need to do to preserve the taxpayers's value. >> Are we going to have a conversation about financing? >> Yes, we have someone be invited to talk. >> I want to start into that if that's coming as well. >> That was a no. Yeah. >> Well,
050before you Well, before you run away, no, I just messed up. other questions about the >> facilities aspect of it and we'll get to the finance aspect of it in a minute. >> Yeah, I mean I I had a couple more questions. Um the the nine science classrooms um the it was 6.9 million for those. Um and again like I see that number and I'm like I I'm trying to figure out like what does that come out to a cost per square foot because that's like how I can like rationalize it in my brain because that's what I'm used to. And if it's like to me it's like you can I'm pricing it at maybe like $1,900 a square foot. And I just I I so I'm not understanding like what what what is included
051in that 6.9 million? Like are we building a new science building or are we just like renovating the interior? If it's renovating the interior, I mean I would think it's $150 a square foot. And again like I don't know I maybe I'm missing things but I just want to get a better understanding because it's a really big number for only nine classrooms. >> So like Dr. Brown said earlier, um the quality of construction, the longevity of construction is to um have materials that last with thousands of well hundreds and hundreds of middle schoolers. Um the costs that you see include a number of other factors. That's not a construction cost. That's a total project cost. So what's in that? Estimates that the market has determined are the costs based on experience. We escalate those costs
052into the future because we're not doing the work now. We're doing it in a couple years. So, we make conservative assumptions about construction cost escalation because we want you to be in a position of getting bids and it's less than these numbers. That's the position we want you to be in. So, when you see a number here, it's intentionally conservative. It also includes other project costs, fees, the other things that you need to do as a district to actually bring a constru uh construction project um to design it to get approvals to bring it to bid to pay prevailing wage for the workers that work on this project. Right? So there are a lot of factors that contribute to the number. Um so if you just are doing the math, um is that the construction
053number per square foot? No, it's not. >> Yeah. I mean, it's $766,000 per classroom. >> And I mean, we're not talking about foundations or roofs or walls. It's like, and again, I'm just struggling with that because it's and I know there's a lot of factors that go into it, but I mean, you can build a, you know, a 60s story skyscraper in New York City for that price per square foot. Like, legit I'm not >> a 60s story skyscraper on a per square foot basis. >> Not when I will go in, but okay. I hear you know better than me. Um, >> I'm not I'm not talking about soft cost and stuff like that. I'm talking about like just hard cost. So I'm like that's how I'm using to relate, but again like to me
054there's no there's no foundation. There's no, you know, piles or deep foundation. There's no walls. There's no dry. Well, maybe there's dry, but it's like it it it's cosmetic. So I'm just I don't know. I I'm having a hard time. >> I think it'd be completely gutted down to the quote stud. >> Doesn't matter. Drywall is $5 a square foot. >> I'm not I'm talking about running new gas lines. I'm talking about whether or not we have to run new >> for 750,000. No, no way. I can't write my mind. >> And and Todd, and my point is not to challenge the number, the math, right? You're better than me. The question I'm wondering about this conversation >> is whether or not this is the actual number. This is what we go with. Is that
055the conversation that we have now or is that a conversation at OACM? Is that a conversation at facilities? Like can we have we get down to the granular details about >> That's fair. Yeah. >> What and and I'm I don't know. Right. But the idea is again just because it's on this list doesn't mean this is the money we're going to spend. It means we're asking for the possible authorization up to 43.5 million. We may spend 34. >> Has that ever happened? >> Absolutely. >> That's what I said. 2019 we do have funds left over that Travis from campus construction >> brought to our attention at meeting. Um so we during pre-construction and construction we call contingencies uh there are owner requested changes there are discovered conditions there are you know a variety of things
056as you know in construction that come up and so we want to put you in the position >> to have money left over at the end of the day. Well, that's why that's Well, that's why you put contingencies. >> Todd, I I'll say it differently. Not the 2019. I want to say the 2015. At one point in time, we were about $7 million. I think it was a $98 million capital project. We were about $91 million and the board made a decision to then do some additional deferred maintenance projects that we would have had to do the next capital project anyway. So, the issue would be even though it may have said it was 6.1, that project came at 4.2. Yeah. And then we decided either we decided not to spend any more money, right,
057which is a smart thing to do in this current economy. Or we decided that there are some other projects that we hadn't planned for that may be worth our while financially speaking long term if we did them at that point in time. So we we have definitely come under the capital project budget that was allocated by the voters. >> I I have a question about that. I think which would be good for the board and the public. If we take out a $40 million bond, are we paying interest on that $40 million bond or are we only paying interest as we draw down on it? >> The latter. >> So, only as you draw down on it. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> So, we're going to have a presentation on the the details of the
058finance just momentarily, I believe. Okay. Well, with the rest of those those good questions. >> Okay. >> And I Right. I keep want to find No, I I'll reserve the rest of my questions. I feel like >> I would also encourage you I know we both were at the last OACM meeting where we saw this. So to bring out all of these questions, continue to bring out all these questions. >> I just thought it would be good for the whole board to hear some of the >> I'm happy to just do it in the committee meeting. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. >> For clarification and also for there were some things at the OACM meeting that I suggested to Chris, let us bring it to the board, too. Yeah. Just like
059we had some items discussed at last week's facilities and finance committee and I said, bring it to the board, too. Y. >> So, it's to just go out there because we ne we also never know when the communities listen. So, we would want to repeat it as many times possible. >> That makes sense. >> Yep. Keep asking. And just for folks to know, I know we use a lot of acronyms. Some folks may be aware. OACM, if I'm not mistaken, stands for owner, architect, construction, and management, right? And so it's where various numbers of folks who work on our projects together come to have a week a meet meeting every other week if I'm not mistaken or is it once a month >> to have conversations about our capital projects to bring everybody together see
060how things are going and go that route. So that's what OACM stands for and any board member is welcome to attend. Chris sends out the agenda for all board members. Karen has been attending. Todd has been attending. Yeah, I I was I was on the phone last time and I was driving and I lost reception a couple times so I kept like dropping in and out so I didn't get to participate as much as I normally do in the last one. But Gotcha. >> Um but these are also questions just so that our community knows these are not the only place in which we'll ask these questions. We'll definitely be asking these questions at OACN. We'll definitely be asking these questions at a facilities meeting. We'll definitely be asking them at finance. We start trying
061to talk about how we're going to finance these projects. What projects are financially viable long term? Um and then we'll get to the some of the finances in a minute. I my request Todd is to keep asking the questions. >> Okay. Okay. >> I'll add also when we when we get to the point where we're bidding projects um along with your construction managers, we look at different procurement options that you have in order to get the best pricing. So when we're looking at roofing and you have $10 million worth of roofing, that's a very attractive package. So we look for opportunities to bid them separately and bid them together and pair numbers. So there's scrutiny as well um to try to get the most competitive um numbers that the market will provide you. >> And
062just because I was doing some of this from memory, please do not quote me directly about the 2015 capital project. I will find folks exact numbers uh when I have time to actually look at my computer. I wanted to be sure, but but it was somewhere in that range. I want to make sure folks are aware of that. >> And and maybe we need to specify like with um the science renovate cabinets. It's not drywall cabinets. These are um that material is some heavyduty material in the I don't know if it's marble or what exactly that's not my forte. So >> yeah, so for science rooms um they're resistant to chemicals because you're using chemicals in middle school curriculum. Um it's also case work. It's gas systems, right? So you have buns and burners and
063things. So there's safety shut offs. There's, you know, that's a whole system. This assumes renovation of the floor and of the ceiling so that when you go in, you have a new science room. Yep. And then lastly, I just want feel like to add again for the community sake. Well, this is a full list and I said that we've always done our capital projects in phases. Whatever projects we decide in phase, whatever phase that would be would be gone through again in significant detail, much more down to the granular. So, it doesn't just say cabinets, right? It'd be much more specific about that in terms of what we're actually doing. So, this is an ongoing conversation should our community decide to give approval for this project. this is not the only nowhere near the only
064conversation that we'd be have >> and we will come back to the board with the specific packages um to seek your approval and to so there are various points of connection um where we'll have these conversations and and seek your approval to move forward. >> So let's talk about the finances. I'm sure that's what other people have some interested as well. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Announce want to call me back start company? >> Yes, you do. about business. You went wrong. >> Sure. Thank you and good evening. Uh Todd, those are great questions. Awesome segue to the financial aspect of this. I can tell you that. Um Chris mentioned that uh we have a team that kind of helps us with the referendum for the capital project and part of that team is the
065obviously the financial aspect. So, I've invited uh Ben Masloona from Fiscal Advisors. Fiscal Adviserss is the entity that assists us through this uh through this process, particularly from the financial end. So, I'll turn it over to Ben. >> All right. It's good to see everyone again. And I feel like we could just have a conversation back and forth, but I do have some slides prepared, so we'll go through that and but we'll keep it casual, so please fire your questions away uh as you see fit. So looking at a future capital project, um obviously Chris did a good job of describing the infrastructure improvements. One of the guiding principles the district has u stuck by over the years is to make sure that your total debt service is not more than 7% of your budget.
066So keeping that within region reason has been a guiding principle and I'll show you a little bit later on the numbers behind that. we're still able to meet that criteria and layer in an existing $43.9 million project and keep that as well. You also want to stabilize what's called the local share. So you have two pieces of the equation, right? You have your debt service, which is your borrowed money and what you pay principal and interest on. And you have the building a coming back to you, which is 58.1% is your building a ratio. So you get that revenue back. The difference between those two numbers is what the tax levy has to raise to support the capital project. We want to try to stabilize that figure. Again, this is something that the $120 million
067referendum has progressively as phases have come on has increased gradually, but it will stabilize and we'll be able to layer a new project and stabilize that number and not increase taxes to pay for an existing project. uh phase approach. This is something that we've done on the 2019 project that I'll just kind of touch on a little bit. Um you mentioned that if you approve a project, you don't just go out and borrow the money, right? You would do it in phases. We have an a detailed approach where we look at the construction cash flow. How much money are you going to need? What's reasonable to spend within one cycle or one 12-month period? And if we were average out the 2019 project, we would be about $15 million per year. I would anticipate something
068very similar to that. So 43 million $43.9 million project estimate about $15 million per year, three-year project, three-phase project. You borrow 15 million in year 1, 30 million in year two, 43.9 in year three. So you're not going to borrow it all at once. Also, you would never want to permanently finance a capital project initially as well. So, one of the things that we want to avoid is a situation where you would permanently finance the entire authorization being paying debt service on $43.9 million, but only spent 40. Now, you're paying debt on $3.9 million. You did not need to borrow. So, we permanently finance projects at the end of their life when the costs are known. And again, we do it in phases to avoid that situation. Um, we also don't want to put you
069in an arbitrage situation where the federal government doesn't like it if you borrow money and make money on it. They're kind of opposed to that and school districts can borrow money at a tax exempt rate and invest it at a higher rate than you can borrow in most instances. So, we want to avoid that situation as well. >> Uh, maximizing estate building is another thing that we're going to help assist with. Uh, something we've been doing and keeping a very close eye on. Now, your building aid ratio, as I alluded to, is 58.1%. So if you do unatable work, you're basically giving a 58 58 cents on every dollar. We don't want to do that. Again, the key financial considerations, um the building a ratio, which I mentioned, maximum cost allowance. So this is something
070um that Chris's slide that detailed what the scope items were going to be budget-wise is important to me, but I want to see that broken down by individual building. So, every building within your district has a cost allowance, two numbers. The first one is a construction number and the bottom one, the second one is incidental. I put two buildings up on the screen here just to kind of give you an idea um of those numbers. So, the high school is to your left. The state has a maximum dollar amount you can spend on a capital improvement project at the high school within a 5year period and you get your 58.1% backup. The maximum you can spend for construction work at the high school over five years is $45.7 million and you get your 58 cents
071back on every dollar. You could spend 70 million but the additional is not. So we want to avoid that situation. Then you look at any project that's been done within the last five years that reduces what's available as of today. So what I did here is I highlighted a top number in yellow. If we did a project today that was going to the state, $26.2 million could be spent at the high school and you get full aid on that and that's within the current footprint of the building. So there's two numbers because the state doesn't like to make anything easy. That's a construction number. The bottom number is what we call an incidental number. So the bottom number represents all of your soft costs. So all of your fees, design, uh bonding, etc. Also site
072work. So at the high school, your starting point is 11.4 million. We've taken on two projects from the last five years that subtract that number out. And as I sit here today, you could spend 6.9 million on site and soft cost at the high school. So I put on here the high school and you can see the elementary school which is to the right how drastically smaller those numbers are which is something that our firm will make sure we adhere to. So, one of my roles will be to take Chris's scope by building and then look at it and say, do we fit within those numbers at every single instructional building of which you have met in uh to make sure that we maximize that aid? And if we're going to exceed those allowances at
073any point in time in any one of those buildings, I will probably recommend that you phase that project out so that it fits within that. And then again, that just minimizes what the impact may be in the district. So a very important thing um that we always look at >> is that maximal cost allowance based on square footage. >> So it's actually based on building capacity >> and it's not based on current capacity. So the state has very dated information in regards to this information they looked at at some point in time and it's usually 30 to 40 years old. U the high school was built to accommodate x amount of children. Yeah. >> Um, they're probably still using that number. If you don't poke them, they typically will leave those numbers alone. And if
074you poke them and you say, "Hey, we would like to build a 10 room addition to the building. Will you give us eight on that?" They're going to say, "Oh, what are you using the building for now? Are you using it to its current capacity or not?" Yeah. >> Um, so usually those numbers, if you're reconstruction, they will stay as is. The only time they'll adjust them is if you ask them for more aid or if you're going to do large scale addition. >> Helpful. Thank you very much. >> So, you said it's outdated. How far back? >> It's hard to say to be quite honest. Um, I've run into districts where it's 40, 50, 60 years old and there's the biggest I think discrepancy you see is in rural school districts where they might
075have had at some point 1,200 kids at the high school and the state still calculated building aid based on 1,200 students and they currently have like five or 600. >> Yeah, that's what I was going to ask because we do have some schools with enrollment is lower. So in those situations we benefit from that, right? >> Absolutely. And I think to your point, >> stop talking about it. >> A lot of schools um with shrinking enrollments throughout New York State do benefit. >> Yeah. >> And what what's the the uh the payback on a percentage basis for new construction like ground up? I think we've talked about before. I can't remember, but because that ties into some of the things you were talking about. >> I kind of I'll I'll put it this way. I'll
076answer your question hopefully a little bit different, but hopefully I'll answer it. Let's say you wanted to build a brand new high school building. They will give you 45 million for construction and 11.4 and probably a new high school is going to cost >> okay >> at least. >> So I would say 50% payback. >> Okay. >> Not to my busy >> school >> charts. Um just this is just you all have seen this before and I apologize it is so busy but this is just that analysis of debt service to budget really column five represents the co total debt service and what's going to be layered in as well in regards to all of your old debt which would essentially be the $98 million referendum you alluded to along with $120 million referendum. Um
077that's in column five is total debt service. Your budget is in column six and this is total gross expenditures on your budget. 7% of those gross expenditures is represented in column 7. And really the difference what I'm looking for is between columns five and seven to see if we've stayed within that 7%. Um you can see the first two years we were slightly over uh our target but I think as as we talked about before we purposely did that because we took advantage of low interest rates in order to accomplish that goal analysis of local share. So I mentioned earlier there's two kind of numbers at play. You have your debt service number and your building aid number. One of the things to kind of uh take a look at in this in this sheet
078especially is column five which is your actual and estimated building aid. So as you could see it starts to grow right it's increasing year-over-year and that's relative to the fact that projects related to the $120 million project are now receiving building aid and that continues to grow. Uh the difference between your total debt service and your total building aid is what's represented on column 7. And that peaks out estimated at about $8.2 million in 202930. That would be when the rest of the $120 million is permanently financed. Uh we've done three bond issues for that so far. I anticipate two more. Um as I sit here today, we have $19 million which we've not borrowed for yet for that project. So it remains authorized and unissued. We would authorize and issue that. Well, it's already
079been authorized. We would issue it at the time if needed. I I showed in the green highlight where there's a drop. So when you peek out at your tax levy, what that is supporting capital projects. When that number drops, that signifies an opportunity to layer in new projects without increasing taxes, right? We don't want to go above that $ 8.2 million figure. just a little more I guess detail on the potential 43.9 million project. We did talk a little bit about phasing and the fact that I I could foresee if if the board does want to move forward. What I would do is probably do a more drilled down approach at a three-phase $15 million per phase and then come back with a less busy prior schedule. just the 42.9 billion would be uh layered
080in there. Uh we would be looking at projects which are reconstruction projects. So building aid would be paid over a 15-year period. >> Um we would also stay within that 7% parameter of the budget. Um you know overall I think that the district is looking at a project at this time with where we're at. um debt service and local sharewise, you're in in a good position to undertake new projects without increasing that um tax effort for capital projects. Looking at the potential local share layering in a new project. Now, this is very similar to last time I was here. I did 30, 40, and $50 million. So, what I'd really like you to do is since we're talking more in the 439, hone in on that column four, which if we do a capital project,
081uh layering in a $40 million project, we should be able to keep your local share at 8.2 million or below. Um, and that's for the foreseeable future. So, once we peak out at 2930, we would not have to raise additional levy in order to undertake this project. And I know a lot of your neighbors who are more highly aided than the district go out with no tax increase projects all the time. You probably see it everywhere, but they're more highly aated. They get 90 95% building aid, but because of where we're going to max out and then we're going to have drops. You could actually do the same with an upcoming project. Um the other thing I and this came up in the conversation I I think it bodess mentioning the timing of the vote
082I think is very uh prudent. Um I would say 90% of school districts I work with vote in the fall. Uh and the real rationale between between voting in the fall versus voting in May is it typically takes one year from the date of vote to uh when you can probably put your first shovel in the ground or sorry when you can go to bid. So, if you were to vote in May of 26, you would look at May of 27. If Chris will tell you it's a terrible time to go to bid, all contractors have their work lined up. You're not going to get any work done. >> If you vote in December and you go one year out, yeah, you'd be bidding in December of 26, which is the most opportune time to
083get the lowest bids possible. And it sets you up perfectly for a summer construction in 26. >> Yeah. >> So, that's just a little commentary on that. Yeah, absolutely. It makes a huge difference. I mean, when people are busy, they'll throw numbers out there and they'll be like, "Well, we don't need the work, so here's what it's going to cost you." Um, so it makes a huge difference and people are usually willing to give discounts because they need to get their books lined up. Um, so, um, I I think it's a great strategy. >> This in my numbers currently too, just um, I know we've talked about these before, I've typically estimated bond rates for 15 years at around 475. Uh currently we are in the 38 to 410 range. So significantly building in conservative
084cushion there. Um and uh one of the things that I I'll also mention is that the district is rated a double A minus right now. So two notches below AAA. It's a very highly rated um level where you're at. And I did do an analysis um it's probably about six months ago or so where I looked at if if you had financed $120 million project at one rating notch lower, you would have paid an extra 2.3 million in interest expense. Two notches lower was around three million. Three notches lower was four and a half million. So by keeping that high high rating uh by keeping your reserves at a high level u you're able to access the capital markets and borrow money at a lower interest rate which obviously impacts your tax. >> Yep. >>
085So before we ask uh questions and see for some of questions I think one thing that we have not said and we've said it in other spaces but it bears repeating here today. um a capital project would have no impact on the uh annual budget. Um there are two separate lines of resources. One cannot be used to fund the other. Um and so just want to make sure everyone is aware of that we're not asking for an additional increase in the annual budget. This would be a special budget line to just do capital projects. And I always feel like that bears repeating for folks to know. Um because just because you approve 43 million doesn't mean we have that money to go do other things, right? Like it doesn't it doesn't work that way. >>
086The only caveat I would add to that is that part of our budget is the debt service. >> That's correct. >> So we do need to factor that in. So like the more we borrow, the higher our debt service. And to your point, you know, like with the IT negotiations talking about like, hey, let's just, you know, burn down our reserves, but because we have high reserves, we're able to borrow and save millions and millions of dollars by getting a lower interest rate. So, like I just wanted to kind of add all that in there, but it is it is part of the budget. >> It's a complicated equation. Thank you. Yeah. No, appreciate that. That's a it's a great point. um other we have questions about the finances or what this could look like
087or just general questions as well the opportunity to ask them >> I just want to say thanks for the explanations thank you for the questions I'm taking in a lot and it's very >> yeah I just want to get into the weeds of some of the stuff I actually don't know if this is the right time I think that we can address some of these things then we come back to the full board and kind of go from there So, >> so you said you don't know if it is the right time. >> Yeah. Well, well, I mean like because I I want to question like the parking lot costs and things like that and like square footage and there's there's this thing because I think before we like 500,000 then it jumped to a
088million. So, I'm trying to understand like what what additional are we adding on and I want to understand the playgrounds better but like I don't think we need to get into the weeds that here and yeah. So, >> so there, so later on if we're like, oh, the science classrooms would only cost three million, like we that happens. We we we talk about that. >> And let me remind the board, um, we have a couple hundred million worth of deferred maintenance. So, if we save $2 million in classroom renovations, then that 2 million from my perspective could go to a paving of a parking lot or a roof someplace else. >> Yeah. So this what we're talking the line of credit is an interesting term to use but what I'm seeing right now is we
089need that line of credit in order to generate revenue to maintain to maintain some stability in our tax cap and to keep taking care of our assets. Um not doing a project not getting approval to spend money disallows us from getting money and from keeping yeah keeping up with some deferred maintenance cost that is pretty significant. >> Yeah. And for clarity I'm not saying like let's not spend the money. I'm saying like let's spend the money wisely and like let's make sure that you know it it's going to the places that need it the most and that that's kind of like where I I try to get into the details of it just to to make sure that >> maybe there's a way that we can do things more efficiently or maybe like just because
090it's deferred doesn't mean it needs to happen now like maybe we can get another 10 years of life out of something and then we can take that money and reallocate it towards buying a a gener or you know generator or buy you know putting on a new roof like something that is needed. So um yeah I just want to make sure we're we're doing things efficiently. So, >> which I have to credit our administration team because I I feel that they have done their due diligence. We have our facilities evaluation that we're reviewing and they've connected with principles at schools. When we saw Boon Middle School floor, it's because earlier this year we had a meeting with the principles to just go over what are your top concerns and that was one. it was brought
091to our attention about the um bleachers and not able to utilize the gym to capacity um because we can't seat people in the bleachers. So, um I don't think it's our our board work that we need to narrow into the details because we've heard from the players on the floor of what they're doing and what needs to be done in their respective buildings and speaking with um other staff that the principles are um connecting with. And we've been talking about this capital project for over six months because Benjamin, you were here last year, fall around November time doing this um presentation. So, and we know that we had agreed and had discussion about putting it off to this fall. And now hearing, it's interesting that you said 90% of school districts usually do it in
092the fall, which um I guess I I've never been in this area during this cycle to see see that. But I'm glad to hear that and knowing that as Chris had pointed out um at his earlier presentation that we need to vote and decide by September 23rd because that gives us 45 days or whatever time period in advance of the December 9th vote to be able to communicate to the community, >> which would also include a public hearing. public hearing. Today is August 26. Our next board meeting is September 9th. >> Again, we're not being asked to vote for this now. >> We are not being asked to vote for this today. This is the discussion. Make sure folks can consume all the information. I would ask both our community and fellow board members to
093take a look at our capital project website, which gives both updates of the current projects and photos sort of before and after. gives a really good idea of what's taking place. Um, I greatly and will continue to appreciate Todd's perspective. Um, and I'm also looking forward to our most our next building condition survey. Um, because I hear you not all things need to take place, but the last one I saw was a little scary at times. And so, I'd love to go through with your expertise and try to think about what this could look like. And I know I know they make it look scary. >> I get that, but it was it was it was a couple hundred million dollars at the current maintenance. >> Dr. Dr. Blair, do you have anything? You've been
094working on this. >> No, I mean, I just say, you know, I want to I want to credit our our, you know, CFO and finance team. We we had a lot of questions about reserve funds and fund balance and, you know, Ben reaffirmed this and you just reaffirmed it, Dr. Brown reaffirmed it, you know, meetings last year of the importance of doing that and you our cost to capital and our credit rating is really important and we're enjoying the benefit now. So, you know, I think thank our our CFO for doing that. And on finance committee, we'll continue to monitor those accounts and make sure that we retain that good status. >> Thank you. >> Fantastic. Thank you very much. We look Yes, Chris. Could I ask a refined request which is if the board
095feels comfortable with allowing the team to move forward to prepare their resolutions for your approval on the 23rd of September. We haven't moved forward because we're just seeking you know this review and you know full understanding >> and they happen in parallel. me as we continue to ask questions they're preparing like >> absolutely and I think even preparing those documents doesn't necessarily lock us into the projects right it's the resolutions that we're referring to uh I think sort of as a straw poll um that we >> sort of are anticipating going down that path but there are any objections to us having those documents ready on the 23rd and continued dialogue and conversation there'll be another facil or finance facilities meeting before then there'll be another OACM meeting before then as well >> um if
096that works Yeah, I'd like to >> Does that work? I give you what you need, Chris. >> Thank you. >> Fantastic. >> Dom and Ben, thank you both for >> very much. >> Uh, are we going to push through board members? We have two more agenda items. >> Do we have a choice? >> Well, the the choice would be to take a five minute break, but >> no. >> Oh, okay. There you go. >> So, then we will then move. We will then move to agenda item 11.2. Um, this is cell phones for administrators. Uh, just so the community knows, this is a agenda item that was tabled from our reorganization meeting. Um, in fact, it probably should have been on our previous agenda. Uh, it was we missed it. I missed it. Um, and
097it's back uh here for uh approval today. There has been some dialogue amongst board members about cell phones for administrators, including conversations with legal counsel, including conversations around the finances of it. And so, just so our community knows that this wasn't it wasn't just that we tabled it, it's we engaged some dialogue, conversation, and now here we find ourselves. So, with that being said, we'll entertain motions. Uh motion to approve recognition of select district employees who are required to create district own cell phones regarding the new facility. >> Second >> moved by Jacob, second by Adam. Discussion, debate, questions, conversation. Just following up on what Sean said, I feel like after getting an explanation from like legal counsel of what district provided cell phones allow like allow administrators to do and the lack of alternatives,
098the lack of feasible alternatives. Um I was one of you know I was one who was sort of like this doesn't make sense to me and now it makes sense to me. >> Are are you open to elaborating on that or >> so? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I think based on the fact that it was originally framed for me as like it's an $80,000 cost, but it's actually a $20,000 cost after reimbursement. And that without providing cell phones, we put ourselves in a position where like we can't where we cannot actually direct administrators or like folks who do have cell phones to respond to things after work hours. Um, and the legal council also advised against um pro against stipens. I need I I I would need someone to build >> the use of
099personal phone. The stipen would be to provide for a personal cell phone and our legal council are recommends that we not use we not conflate administrators personal lives and professional lives in that way that it may open up additional liability. >> So I I I just have a a question and I'm not against it. I just this actually came up today. >> Um Like we we use apps. Like we have an app on our phone. So everyone has like a second line and like when you call from your phone, it calls through the app. So it's a totally different number. So their number is hidden. It's the it's there's different work phone numbers. >> Um and it's super inexpensive and there's separate like you can put in settings there like you know you can't receive
100calls after a certain time or you know it has that been looked at as an option and I'm just curious. >> Yes. and um the liability that exists um if there's a foyer request for an administrator's um device. >> Yeah, >> that device will go with that app and all the data. >> And that that was going to be my question was like we you can with the apps like we can text people, you know, you can phone call and it's like you can you can export all that data. So I wasn't sure when it comes to foil requests if it would be like hey this this app's been the only thing that's ever been used for communication. here's the app data, but leave the person's personal cell phone out of it. But if if
101you don't if they they force you to, you know, give in your person cell phone, then that makes sense to me because I wouldn't feel comfortable having administrators to have their stuff look through. So that's that's kind of what I was trying to understand is when it comes to foil requests, is there a line between apps and phones or it's like everything? >> That's foyer request. And then there's just access. Um, that school district device is going to be on in the middle of the night at 3:00 a.m. when we may have a threat assessment or something else may be happening or a car runs into a school building >> and when we call, we want someone to pick up and your personal phone, you could say, "I'm not doing that." And the school one,
102we kind of expect you to. >> Yeah. And again, and I'm not trying to like belabor this, but you know, you you you can, you know, on our phone, like my personal phone, I can like shut it off and then the only notifications I would get are from the app. So if it rings, it rings, right? And I can also shut off the app notifications. Like I you can kind of control who's calling, who's not, when you receive messages. So I'm just throwing that out there like maybe now is not the time to do it because it is such small cost, but like I don't know if in the future if that makes more sense because it maybe is actually more efficient. Um, so I I >> I'm open to all of that and I
103I said early on I'm having been in the cell phone business for 20 years as a former CIO, I want to get out of it. Yeah. >> And I don't know how at this moment with all the liability and we're talking about administrators, we're talking about folks who are on as one person who's on 24/7. >> Yeah. >> And right now for the $20,000 for the kind of health and safety and the mental and just the support I need, right? Like this is well worth the cost and and open to some new approaches over time, but we don't have a better option right now. And just for clear like for me I think like the you know the executive staff like you have to have your phones but then I wonder if like the amount
104of other phones that are out there for principles or other people like do we really need to have that many out there or could they survive or they're not based on the amount of usage that it would get. >> So that's kind of I was thinking again I don't know if now is the time to hash that out but maybe it is a way to get out of cell phone business with the exception of you know a dozen people who I think need to have their own phone because the amount of time you're on your phone >> and we've purged that list quite a bit over the years. >> Yeah. was going to say is that something that would be revisited when contracts like >> Yes, we've been looking at it for a while and
105Zach Lyn has been leading that charge and we're talking about a fraction of what we used to provide and where we are right now in many cases are contractually obligated. >> Yep. Okay. >> Yeah. I I want to reiterate in my time with the board that that list has been purged significantly. It used to be a couple hundred if I'm not mistaken at one point in time. It was almost like we were giving phones away. uh and then uh a number of board members have been raising this question over the past 15 16 years. >> So tech communication has always has also changed as well. So something for us to continue to consider to explore and try to find um efficiencies without question. >> Yeah. The list was 140 last year and this list I
106think is around 70. >> So there you go. And that's down from what it was in like 2015. >> Yeah. >> So when it comes to revisiting in the future like contract negotiations, is that something that >> Yes. >> I guess how does that work? Like do we say hey like we'd like you to re I don't know when the next negotiations are with the impacted union but it's >> three years. >> Yeah. And that would be um something that we would talk about in an in a privilege session first with our attorneys and then maybe talk about with in as part of a collective bargaining uh session. >> I would just say please know it's it's a topic of >> conversation has been and will continue to be. >> That's all I got. >>
107Thank you. >> Yeah. Additional questions, comments, debate hearing none. Let's call the question. All in favor? All opposed? Got it. Any abstensions? Fantastic. The motion passes. Uh it seems ironic to begin with giving administrators cell phones and then turning to taking cell phones away from students. Uh but that's where we find ourselves. They get a free pouch though. >> Yes, they do get a free pouch. Um, and I actually want to contextualize that pouch uh as as I heard you say that. Uh, this is policy 5695, personal electronic devices for a second reading and adoption. Uh, we will have some conversation. I do want to address something that um I heard uh Todd say at the last meeting and I thought I was also picked up locally um which I thought was a really good
108comment that you made that it seems like an adult pro solution to a kid problem and that really got me thinking a little bit about it and it got me thinking about why we selected um the pouches that we that we have. Um, and the part that I want to just sort of open with and communicate as we continue to have some dialogue and some conversation. Um, and Maline and I were just talking about this on the way into the meeting about again just the sort of addictive nature of cell phones, which was part of the reason that the governor is passing this law, sort of acknowledging the extreme difficulty that takes place with young people and getting them off their devices. And so, one of the things that we were thinking about is ways
109in which to disrupt that in some ways. Um the irony is um some the most of the locking pouches don't stop the announcements, don't stop the dings or the chimes. And so you can get a yonder patch, but I still know that I got a text message. Um the pouches that we selected with the RFID blocking was an attempt to assist some students should they choose to use them. and we're going to figure we're going to find out. But the idea was to try to disrupt the constant Pavlovian response to I hear a ding. I know I just got a IM and Instagram. And so we can look at it in a host of different ways. There's no question about it. But the question becomes, are we trying what are we trying to disrupt? And
110I think the conversations that we were having uh as both the policy committee and with the great help of Mary Grover and Carrie Burke were trying to find some different ways to disrupt some of the cultural norms that are behind cell phones, not just always taking them away and being liable for them, especially given it's going to be a difficult transition. So, one, thank you Todd for making me think, right? And then for not explaining those pouches, as funny as they may be. And trust me, uh I just saw I don't want to say what district it was, but there are a number of districts who are using the exact same pouches as well that didn't go with locking pouches or didn't go with lockers. And we may find again that this is not the
111perfect solution, but this is where we find ourselves with a a statewide for the most part unfunded mandate and we're going to go down that path. And I'm sure you have a response, so please feel free. >> No, I I I appreciate that. And it makes me feel good that I made you think a little bit. That might be the first time that happened. >> No, it's not. It was not. >> Um, no. And I think for me it was less about like which pouch. It was more like I just don't think the kids are gonna use the pouch. And I think they're going to put the phone in their pocket or they're going to put it in their backpack. Um, and my whole my whole comment was like we're spending on money money on
112something I think less than 3% of kids are going to use genuinely. Um, and I mean Newfield is just telling their kids because they have to put in the lockers and they're not spending any money. And it's almost like, hey, we we have a solution to meet our legal obligations. And the state said, just put in the lockers. >> Yep. And you have other school districts are spending hundreds of dollar, hundreds of thousands of dollars to build lockers. >> And and and what I think my my personal opinion is we sit and wait. We see what the response is. Let that school district spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on lockers. Let's see what the feedback is at the end of the year. Let's see how Newfield does. You know, let's see how schools do
113with the fair day. Let's see how schools do with the whatever the one that we're getting. and don't spend any money and just just wait and see and then find a better solution because I just don't think it's I don't think it's a solution. So So again, like that's that's all I wanted to I don't think anyone's going to use. >> So we can't sit and wait. We have to get a policy in place to um >> ban the phones. Um what is it? Bellto bell. Yeah. >> So therefore it has to go somewhere especially if we don't have lockers for all students to access. What do we do if that's >> Do we not have lockers for all students? All schools. All schools still had lockers >> which so boon and middle like Boon
114and Dwit are there not enough lockers for students >> that and elementary buildings won't have lockers. >> The high school does. >> High school has I got to check to see if we have one for every student. I'm pretty sure we do. >> I think the high school >> but I don't you know every student using their locker is another conversation >> or where is the locker located relative to what part of the building and entrance and but but those are all great questions and we're going to we're going to find that out. I mean that's so I hear you. the money has been expended at this point in time. >> The state has given us money to expend to be in compliance with the law and it was a minimal amount of money. Um,
115and from my colleagues, if districts are choosing to go the locker route, they're we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars in infrastructure needs even when they thought they were prepared. For us, I think if I'm not mistaken, we spent $20,000 on these pouches so that we would be prepared to do something at the beginning of school, which is going to be in a few days. Um, so that's where we are right now. And I too agree that we're going to have shifts and changes with how we implement this policy. And if I want I want to be clear too, we're still we're talking about the implementation now. Will the policy outline what we're actually purchasing or not? Correct. It's not going to. So at some point it's up to my team and I and which
116has been informed to use the pouches at this point to make adjustments on what we use, but the policy is going to say they're going to be put someplace. >> Yeah. that's in compliance with the law. >> Yes. Our our process, our main goal for this evening is to adopt a policy. I imagine there'd be ongoing conversations about implementation. A good good portion of that is outside of the board's purview and yet simultaneously I'm sure many of us have thoughts and feedback that we're going to be sharing with Dr. Brown and his team. >> Please. >> So I think that's sort of where we find ourselves. So the real question for this evening is the policy itself with a conversation about the implementation ongoing with the recognition that we are very close to the beginning
117of the school year. And I also want to make mention with families repeatedly being informed that this policy was going into effect um even while they may be waiting for the exact details of what that looks like. Not at the elementary school level because that hasn't changed from last year to this year for the most part. Um, but at the secondary level, there may be some specifics that folks that folks have. Um, I want to make sure that folks have the correct policy and it I'm not sure that it's on here and for that I apologize. Um, uh, there were two changes from our first reading. Um, and I believe someone asked a question about Oh, they are on here. Uh the two changes from our first reading will both be found on page is
118it page three? Three. Yes. Thank you. On page three. Uh one, there was a question about exemptions. Uh item E, educators may authorize limited structured use of devices for instructional activities at their discretion subject to prior administrative approval. That is not part of the legal mandate. Um and yet it may be something that the district still wants to continue or the board may want to support as well. Um that may actually even be a conversation from our educators. I know when I had a conversation with some educators, they were quite upset about the policy talking about the ways in which they use devices and yet we have this mandate and so um it is allowable. It is permissible but it's not required. Um the other two changes are the other there's only two changes they
119are highlighted. Um, one is talking about the exemptions at the request of our uh, ITA union president, Katherine Sinera, had asked us to put a comment in about staff being notified. The language you see here is my language in conversation with legal as well. Uh, saying that not all exemptions should be due to privacy rules should not be reported in all cases. So just because a student receives an exemption doesn't mean that all staff faculty need to be aware of that exemption for a variety of reasons. How we communicate that, how we work through that, that's going to be part of the implementation and that's why the policy states when and where appropriate. Uh Jacob, I know you asked a question that's my language in talking with folks about what would be an appropriate way
120to phrase that. >> I understand the intention. Right. That's the idea behind it and trying to also adhere to um Katherine's suggestion about making sure staff would be notified uh in terms of who has an exemption. And then lastly um in terms of the change from the first reading to the second reading um there's a line that says interventions may include taking devices away from students, storing devices in the main office andor contacting caregivers prior to return. um that is much more about implementation but felt that some comment in the policy needed to be stated. One that students cannot be suspended simply for violating the cell phone policy and simultaneously letting caregivers know that it is possible that staff or administrators would take a phone away would possibly store it in the main office and
121would andor may require a caregiver conference or contacting the caregiver prior to its return. That's part of the implementation. But we thought that language should at least be in the policy to give folks some idea of where we find ourselves. So that's the changes to the policy based on the feedback that we got last time. Um let's entertain conversations before we try to move the policy and go from there. I um so I was curious about other districts and how they are thinking about um what's the language um interventions and responses or some districts call it enforces enforcement consequences and reporting whatever the language may be um I do worry that our language is when I think about it's interesting right if we were to have a consequence that was like if this then student
122gets suspended I view that as inequitable because there's no room for interpretation understanding but in this case I think the if a phone appears the phone goes to the office and there's communication I think that that's an appropriate thing that then prevents it prevents inequities in how it is followed through on Right? I like I was a teacher, you know, like you like some students get at you a little bit more than other students, right? I don't as a teacher, I don't want to be thinking in my head, is this an instance where I'm going to report this to the office or is this one where I'm going to smile and, you know, give a wink because I have that relationship with the student. I think the intention of the cell phone pan, which I
123really agree with because I think they are addictive devices. If we're talking about addiction, if there was any if a student had any other addictive thing like a like like a like a drug, I don't know, then right, we wouldn't say put it away. We would say we're taking that and we're following through on it. And I think that that will remove. So that in my mind, that would be my proposal for this policy. I'm uncomfortable with the language as is because I think it's insufficient um to actually lead to stu like I think it leads to unpredictability and stabil instability for students and teachers and caregivers. I think caregivers deserve to know like we encourage you not to send your kid to school with their phone. But if it does come out um please
124know you will be informed because we're in partnership with you. it will be removed because we are serious about having this uh learning environment and then it will be returned and then the it can escalate beyond that if it happens repeatedly but I don't think there's a compelling reason to not the first time no like if a phone comes out the phone shouldn't be there anymore >> thoughts reactions comments >> yeah I mean that makes sense to me I I think it's important to to be as clear as possible so that way it is equitable across the board and everybody understands and you don't leave room for like ambiguity and people be like well how come he only got a warrant in my phone got taken away. So I just I I I second that
125you know that the more clarity we have the better and I think more simple the better. I don't think having like five opportunities I think it should be like something simple and basic but you you're you guys are working on currently writing that up right? Have we seen the final version of that? >> I think we put something in your folders to look at. I didn't I apologize. I haven't read it. So, it's fine. >> Um I I I would recommend some changes to the implementation guide respectfully because it does put a lot on teachers. I think that should be shifted to administrators. But I just want to go back to something that um Jacob said and try to frame it in a way and I'm still gathering my thoughts. So, thank you. I understand
126I understand the desire. So, I have two sort of things that I'm thinking about. one, does that language belong in a policy which then locks us into that very response until we change the policy or then we're out of compliance with the policy which then opens up us to liability or is that >> you find liability in this? >> So if we write it in policy and we pass it and then we don't follow it or we change it but we still have the policy on the books then why couldn't a parent or caregiver say you didn't follow your policy even though our practice has changed. So I'm wondering if the policy not I'm wondering my practice has been to write policies that are a little more vague intentionally to ensure that there could be
127specificity in the practice or the procedure not necessarily in the policy. So that's one thing that that I think about on a regular basis. And then this is just because I have the opportunity and I apologize it's not to you at all. Um, this notion about inequality and equity is always interesting to me as if words in the page will mandate equality. As someone who lives in a country that says liberty and justice for all, yet I've never experienced that. Just putting it in a policy doesn't mandate that it would be equitable. I understand the desire and the need to have some clearly spelled out things. And I think I would be of the mindset to leave that to the administrators of each building to clearly communicate some of those things that you're talking about.
128I do think there needs to be a tiered system, right? I think that part is clear. I think we may not personally we may not completely agree on what that tiered system looks like, right? Or we may as well, right? Um >> we never know. >> But well, we we can we will know because we're going to find out and it's going to be a topic of conversation. But the difference for me is this notion of I'm I'm in agreement with what you're saying about a tiered response. For me, that's part of the implementation. The policy should indicate what is possible and what can happen so we know and let parents know what is there and the way in which we chose to write it and I know that Emily is not here today and
129also supports some stronger language. Um I have been a little concerned about some of the policies that I've read and in fact let me back up. Sometimes it's difficult to find the actual policy that the board wrote compared to what is on a website about what the implementation is and so we're not always reading the same thing. And I would respectfully say I think if that's not mistaken of you sinceense pipsy and I'm not sure that was their policy that was their communication to parents about what their tiered system would look like. Now I I may get have that wrong. >> It's it's the board policy. I'll have to go back and take a look because I thought it was on their communication to parents website, but we'll we'll go from there. >> I don't
130believe so. It's it's written like our policy. I'll name like for for a number of the ones that I saw, Pikipsy being one example. Um I generally share I understand it's like a it's a there's a fine line, a balance or something between policy and implementation. I guess in this case, I mean, like as as in a couple of weeks ago, like what I saw for the responses for the implementation had me concerned that we're not actually going to fulfill the per the intention and purpose of the ban. And I cannot and I always regret saying this because then I can imagine, but like I I can't I I think it is important for us to put into the policy that if a phone is out, that phone will be removed. um because I think
131it's reasonable and within the spirit of the ban and therefore in the spirit of the >> uh it is not required by the ban. The it's not required that if a phone is out that it's removed. What the ban requires is that it's a distraction-free environment and how you achieve that are variety of ways. So the law the mandate does not require us to take phones. That is one of the opportunities and one of the responses that are available to school boards. What it is saying is that their phone should not be out. So it is possible to say to a student, put put your phone away. Now does that place an undue burden on teachers, right? In terms of equity, those are real questions. But I just want to be very clear that the
132the mandate does not require us to take phones away. It does require us to have phones to not have phones visible >> and what and what that looks like. >> Dr. Brown are is it going to be like a school by school basis or is it going to be like high schools like one type of thing, middle schools are going to be kind of the same type of implementation and then elementaryaries are different or is each school going to be allowed to implement it their own way? >> Yeah, I would say I mean if you look into a default we again we've been having a lot of conversations about this and it is different by level and it will be done the way the policy is written. It does allow for folks to make professional
133judgments on a case-bycase basis. I do also I hear all of the again as a person who have not been in favor of what's going to now happen to administrators and the ambiguity and the amount of time we spent on hypotheticals. I know this is going to be a tough implementation and I also know as a person who's written policies to put very specific language about what would happen in the first instance or second is unlike what we've done in any other policies particularly our code of conduct which I also now hold up as what we use to build relationships and to support a safe and environment in our schools and what I've warned folks in Albany about is that this particular issue will get us to do things that we have not built over
134decades in this state when it comes to building relationships and managing student behaviors. So, I struggle with being more prescriptive than we have been because I think that's going to create you use the word liabilities. Um, if not taking that phone, then what happens? Um, and there will be instances whether we want to admit it or not where I'm not taking that phone again. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to have this conversation differently at another time. I see it out, but I'm going to choose to do something different to reserve the relationship, to reserve this instructional. the distraction is going to be if I'm going to get into a power struggle about this phone. And then when I say Professor Bradwell just pass a policy that requires me to take it. Y'all know what kind
135of issue that's going to create for us. >> It's fair. >> Whereas when we have some leeway to engage in what we're describing as a distraction-free environment that will support teaching and learning and relationships, which this policy was intended to do, was to build relationships, then that's so there's I think that's helpful. And I would dare say we're inviting you to come back at the end of September to have a conversation and there may be a time where like no actually some the change is necessary and we'll bring that up. >> One last thing Todd as I understand the mandate it does provide for differences between elementary and secondary. Elementary students are requested to not bring their phone to school. though they can bring their phones as long as they are silenced and in their
136backpack or in their cubby that is vastly different than what the mandate says at the secondary level. Right. So even the state is not really you know there's a little bit of difference and discrepancy there as well >> and ju just for clarity sake you say case by case based basically like each teacher is kind of going to have some discretion on like how to handle different situations which is I I support everything else we have. >> Yeah. No I'm Yeah. I just I just wanted to be clear. So, thank you. >> Hopefully in keeping with the mandate. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> I think Yeah. I think a couple things. Um I guess first of all, I think having discretion um you know can be can be a good thing. Um I I
137wouldn't want there to be a policy where there's absolutely no discretion. I think the second thing is, you know, what what's the intention, you know, behind the cell phone ban anyway? And and like what what are we really looking for? meaning like if cell phone use decreases by 85% this year because of the cell phone ban. I mean that that would be very good, you know, like so so I'm also thinking a little bit about that like even if if it's not a completely airtight policy and you know there's some cell phone use in the classroom but it's it's extraordinarily reduced um you know maybe to a point where it's really not a problem or causing any negative impacts at all then that might be sufficient. Yeah. Um, that would be my second thing. And
138then the third thing would just be I I really like the idea of revisiting the policy in the sense of I think we we do want to put something in place. People have worked hard on the policy. It's it's a pretty good policy. Um, you know, maybe just promising that we're going to come back and look at it in a month or two and then saying like h how is it how is the implementation going? >> Yeah. >> Is it problematic? Like is it is it too loose of a policy so that it isn't working? Okay, we have to tighten up the policy. obviously not working versus actually it's it's a a less restrictive policy but it is working. >> So I guess those are those are just some of my thoughts. >> Yes. Yep.
139That makes sense. A wondering I have regarding that is as I try as I ga get an understanding of what we do as a board and like our like our role how like let's say we came back to the policy in a month or two thinking about like how would we outside of anecdotal evidence how are we how would we be tracking the effectiveness of this policy and and part of that is just a question around It gets back to this idea of discretion, right? A teach like I can say we don't have a cell phone problem and I might go to a school and everyone's on their phone at lunch, right? And the intention of this is belltobell, right? Because we know that lunchtime is a time where it would be wonderful if kids
140were talking to each other. I have a feeling that there's a lot more active engagement with screens. And so part of like again my thought behind removing some of the discretion when it comes to removal of the phone might be less about removal of the phone because I definitely hear and I understand and I also want to I don't want to prescribe power struggles. I think that's bad for everyone. I also though don't want an instance where we have maybe hundreds of instances of cell phones being used and we actually don't know because it's not being tracked monitored and so I want to better understand how we do that. That's going to be the challenge for us all. And I I the best I can offer right now, we will bring back to you stories
141and anecdotal evidence because we have a law that's been informed by from my perspective, no causal research or any metric that can indicate the removal or the inclusion of a cell phone is contributing to student achievement or not. And if anybody has that research that can that's peer-reviewed, I would like to see it. So >> yeah, there's tons of it, right? Like >> like it's something I've been reading about for the last two years. Again, I I've been reading a lot of it, too. And that's the understanding and talking about the different types of research that's causal with regards to this particular device in schools. I just want to have that discussion about and so to ask I I don't want to put forth a metric that's not informed by research and that I could
142say is connected to student achievement at this point other than stories and anecdotes and we can bring that back. Um, and our folks would have those stories. I would have my stories about if I see decreased usage or if things are going better but um if you're asking about a specific metric I don't know if we would have that in September imagine >> but I but I think like what Jacob is saying I mean I'm thinking about different things like we have let's talk for example so we can get some anecdotal evidence we can ask people to do that we we could survey teachers we could survey parents we could sort of say like how how is it going you know like um with a very simple two two or three questionnaire I guess I
143guess not the question of whether whether it's good or bad or hurt harmful or whatever, but just kind of like how will we know that the policy is effective enough that it's not causing problems, >> you know, >> like with every other policy. I I think what we're all looking for is try to find the spirit of the ban whether we agree with it or not which is the removal of cell phones particularly in instructional spaces and I'm also in agreement that lunch is probably one of the bigger things we're going to do or between the hallways or in restrooms or you know the the the whole thing we're going to find all this out and so I'm of the mindset for the most part and not because I helped write the policy or the
144other folks help write the policy but to pass the policy as it is I We made a mistake with Chris Glavitz and I'll apologize. We do not have a board meeting on September 23rd. Our board meeting is on September 30th. >> We made a mistake with >> uh we told Chris to prepare documents for us by September 23rd. Uh but our next our board meeting is the second board meeting in September isn't until September 30th. And so just so board members know, it is already on the September 30th agenda to get an update on cell phone ban. So we've already started that agenda planning. And so we don't have to worry about if it's going to be on the agenda. It's it's already there and we're expecting that conversation. And at that point in time
145that maybe you know we find ways in which we make some tweaks. We ask for some different implementation. We talk to our colleagues and friends and teachers and you know principles and cafeteria folks and see how things are are going is sort of my thing. I think this is such uncharted territory. I do happen to agree with Jacob that there is some research I disagree with Dr. Brown. There is some research and maybe not causal but that they are they are a distraction in educational spaces and there's a reason why I ban them in my classroom as well. >> That's why I was clear. Let me underscore causal. >> Yep. I hear you. >> I'm looking >> few things are causal. Yeah. >> I'm looking forward to that conversation as well. >> This is the
146law. >> We'll have that. >> I just want to say that this is a policy. A policy is just going to be a guidance overview, not detail of how to implement it. we have the implementation chart and so forth. And in this policy, we have reporting requirements at the end number six, which states that we're going to look at this annually and because according to New York State Law point whatever that we have to publish an annual report. So there will be some sort of reporting and who knows the state may turn around and say let's abolish this whole thing. What to think about that? >> Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. >> We have the um district though, I think it was in one of your communication where an email of the distractionfree and
147schools who already have imple implemented their policies as well as we last year we had the high school and the two middle schools Boon and Dwit had some sort of cell phone guidance and usage. So, and we have a frequently asked question page that families can always go to. My my thing is we the adults give the children the thought. >> So, with that being said, how about we move the p Oh, let me rephrase that. Entertain motions for a second reading and adoption and then see if there's additional dialogue and discussion and debate. >> Oh, we we haven't done that yet. We have not done that yet. >> I I move to approve policy 5695, personal and electronic devices for second reading and adoption. >> Second. >> I just I know I knew you
148wanted that one. >> Whatever, Todd. >> Additional conversation and debate about the policy. There will be plenty of time for us to engage in conversation with our building leaders and our administrators about implementation. >> I do have a question. Um Jacob, I know that we have a student rep from the board. How how do how does that work? Like like do you want us like >> do you want to look at that policy? >> Well, no. I'm just I'm it feel I had this moment of disconnect where I'm like we're talking about a policy that's directly two things. One, our student reps, which is part of a new state mandate where you're required to have at least one exofficial member of the student body to join us. We will have six or seven fill that
149role. Four from Ithaca High School, is that correct? who will be joining us at the table in future meetings. >> Okay, got it. >> Second, it is rare, almost against Robert's rules, to go to the floor to ask folks to speak even though we don't always abide by Robert's rules. And so, we will make a quick exception and say, do you have anything that you'd like to share with us as No. Right. And please do not feel compelled to to speak either. [Laughter] No pressure. You're representing the entire student body. >> That is fantastic. And we will be asking when everyone joins us, right? We will be asking for feedback how things are going. Hopefully you I'm sure you'll be providing it for us as well as our student reps do. So we look forward
150to that. So thank you for that. But I just wanted to make sure um that folks also aware that we try to follow that. We don't normally go to the floor. Uh it's the board bill the board meetings are a very poor way to engage in dialogue and discussion because the purpose of the board meeting is to do the business of the school board. That's why we ask folks to come to committees and engage in a little bit more dialogue in that regard. So with that being said if there are any other questions debates >> yet we do welcome let's talk. So >> oh yes yes please members email phone calls >> continue to stop me at Wegman's I love it. Sean only. >> Yep. >> Then we'll call the question if there's no more.
151All in favor? That is unanimous. Thank you all. We know there's a lot of work to be done. Thank you all. We know there's a lot of work to be done. We'll proceed from there. Um our next agenda item is uh to return to executive session should the board want that to take place. So we'll entertain motion. Well, there's >> I move to enter into executive session for matters leading to the appointment, employment, promotion, demotion, discipline, suspension, dismissal, or removal of particular person. >> Moved by Adam, second by Jacob. All in favor? >> All opposed? >> I'm going to go any. >> Yep. Understood. Uh, I also want to be clear this will conclude um the business aspect of the board meeting. No additional agenda items will be discussed and no other voting items will
152happen this evening as well. We will close the meeting out by talking to our board clerk upon exiting from executive session. Thank you all very much. I'm taking a sub.