June 16, 2026 Board of Education Work Session

001Oh, you need >> to order. So, um, notice of this meeting was given in accordance with the previous, uh, provisions of bylaw 0164B of the Riverside Local School Board of Education, which was adopted in accordance with section 1.450 of the OC and the Ohio Administrative Procedures Act. Can you call roll, please? >> Mrs. Mrs. Kinski, >> here. >> Mrs. Grassi, >> here. >> Mr. Odino, >> here. Miss Bster >> here. >> Mr. Buyers >> here. Can >> we stand for the pledge of >> allegiance? To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. So, that brings us to our work session. Um, a discuss discussion of financial planning and levy options and a presentation

002on tips. I just want to kick off. I know um >> Dr. Tino and Dr. Thompson received a few a handful of questions, maybe half dozen, maybe a little more. Yes. >> So, I know they've taken some time. and they've revisited the plans by taking a look at again the facilities plan that we just passed as a board of education as a district um and also their plan to ask some more questions. I know there's been a lot of collaboration on this work just to make sure that we are ironing out all the eyes or dotting all the eyes and crossing all the tears trying as we go through. Um before we get to that I did want to I did run this by uh Mr. McIntyre want to provide a special update on our

003stadium lighting situation as we have a uh driveway closed right now. Um we did have a light pole fall on Sunday. Thank goodness no one was around and the campus was closed. Um it fell across the road falling onto um two of our brand new vans. Um but they are van that can be replaced. Um, basically at this point we have a claim filed with insurance. We do have a company coming tomorrow uh to move the pull off the road with a crane to pick it up and turn it. Uh we are going we have one van that is new that is still functioning. We're going to move that van out of the way first, but there is glass in it. So we're our bus mechanics, we're we're making sure that all the intakes and

004we're vacuuming out all that so we can safely make sure that we move it and then get the other two bands to file those with insurance. Move the pole, get the pole removed um as well as to where we are. We have closed the stadium until further notice. We have an inspector coming tomorrow as well to look at the other three poles to make sure that they are sound and we're not going to have this again. if we do, we have a um plan to get those down and then go from there after that. So, we are working closely to that and working closely with insurance to where it is. So, on Sunday, just to kind of show you where we are. Um I don't Oh, wait. That's the second one. So, we'll show quickly.

005This is the actual view of the pole falling. Oh my goodness. >> Um I cried at that one. And here's to show you kind of the view from the field as well. You can see the pole in the upper right. >> It's swaying. Um it was windy, but there it goes. It's sheared off from the base. So we look kind of how it >> um they were they were installed in 2002. Um so they're not that old. They're um but we do have some questions as to where they are. Um, and that is really kind of where we're at with this as we work. We do know that we're about 10 weeks out. Um, if we were to get new lights and what those look like, they do not make the metal halite lights that

006are like that anymore. We do have to replace at least one pole with uh LEDs. Um, so we will have a mismatched pair if we're able to save the other three. If we're not, uh, we will replace them all with, um, LED lighting and I will update as we move forward. Will there be any recommendations if we can save the other three lights about anchoring them somehow or preventing >> the way that the anchoring wouldn't have changed anything sheared off at the well they're actually they the base is still >> anchored in tightly >> um into it. So if you look I think >> clean it looks like if you look right here it actually shows like this looks like it was just cut off. There's a >> there's a little piece of metal here

007where it broke off, but it it it's it's at the weld that just went all the way through. So, we are >> we are trying to get our field at least available because we have all kinds of camps and everything else on it. The community using it. We've also obviously the fence is damaged as well. We have a fence company coming as well to fix that. >> So, you said 2002 >> along the way. 2002 they were installed. >> Okay. So, that's still 24 years. >> Yes. So the new technology, what's >> they're supposed to last about 50 to 70 is what we've been told. >> Oh, I see. >> Uh the new technology, a LED light will be actually significantly less in energy consumption. Um the light poles will not need to be as

008tall. So they'll be it'll be shorter as well. So that will prevent some of that that comes from it. Um we looked at replacing these at one point two years ago with an LED retrofit for it. It was about a $200,000 difference to put the retrofit in. We think it's going to be we're estimating of somewhere between, you know, 400 around there is 400,000 if we had to do all four poles. Um, obviously part of that is an insurance coverage. We will try to submit the rest with insurance as well because we if we can get an inspector to say yes, they're all bad. And it's it's not if, but when. Um, that's a concern that we have. What was the I know that I understand the company that manufactured these is out or out

009of business. >> Did it come with some kind of warranty of some sort? >> We are looking for all that documentation. So, when it was put in and when we've had some of that, we are going back and searching the archives trying to find that was three or four maintenance directors ago. I did call Dr. Kis today. Uh that man's memory is amazing. He told me all about it. Um so, he did have a lot of the details, but again, not the files on it. So looking for the files. He told me kind of where to look for some of the files. Um so we are looking through some of the files that we're looking for some documentation and what the next steps are. So >> so one of the vans is really crushed. You

010could tell is one salvageable. >> We think so. We have to see um when we look at it if you look at it from that we do think so. We are concerned about the way that it hit in the corner and whether that's a support team or not. And what they will fix and what they just say is a toll. >> So that is more of an insurance company decision than ours. Um the one in the middle is Yeah, there's that's no bueno. So that one's um >> unless we make it a converter. >> Yeah. I don't even know if we can do that. I mean it bounced off of it. So and when you look at the pole when it hit it, there's a dent in the pole where it hit the band the

011first time and then it bounced again. So it was yeah again glad it was a Sunday nobody was on campus there were no events all of that of of the times this could happen this was probably the best worst time >> so how did you discover this hoop >> I got a call on Sunday from Mr. oric who I'm not sure how he got a call but when I get a call on Sunday from Mr. Allesic it is not a good thing I welcome his text but when he calls something happens so he called me on Sundays and I just said this isn't good he goes no sir it's not and I came up and looked at it and you know I think people who saw it there were a lot of people up to

012see it I think they thought it was AI at one point saw the picture something >> thank you >> all right um next up >> uh I have David seed here to kind of reinfor and reintroduce um We're going to introduce some of our new board members to the casement tiff and the agreement for that and kind of what we have expected down the road. What's coming with the casement property uh as requested? I will Yeah, I have some more. >> That's a big one. >> Yes. He has plenty sit here. Is that okay? >> All right. Let me first explain first of all say hello. Hope everyone's doing well. Um, thank you for the opportunity to work with all of you. Um, tax income and financing abatements. There's a couple ways. Abatements mean you

013don't pay property taxes. So, you have a tax abatement on your home. Let's say it's 50% or at business. They just don't pay taxes on the that portion of the property. This reduces the property tax bill. Steve was an acronym of Cleveland to build a new home or apartment building to get a 15-year 100% tax. No taxes or tax increment financing is similar but different. It's technically an exemption on real property, but there is the taxpayer continues to pay full property taxes on the property. I I look at as a case for the devotion. Um unlike an abatement where no taxes are paid, the tax improvement financing, full taxes are paid. But the taxes, as I will explain, are preserved for two purposes. One, to pay compensation to the board of education, and two for

014use by the local government, in this case the township, or return back to the developer. So with every property, you know, it could be an abatement or t There's what we call the base value. What's currently at site, the current land, the current D. Schools, all taxing entities continue to receive 100% revenue on what's the site that's being developed. So, the school district was receiving $20,000 a year. They'll continue to receive around $20,000 a year subject to changes in evaluation and um millions. It's what's constructed on the site and the value of what's constructed and any change additional value of the land that's captured as incremental value by tax increment financing. Think of the 40. It's the premium. So I'll use this example. If a if a commercial property has a value of $100,000 base

015value and something's built on it, it has a value of $900,000 and the total value is a million. And let's just say for sake of argument, the taxes are $20,000 a year. The taxpayer is going to write a check to the county treasurer for $20,000. My example, onetenth of the property is the base value. So 2,000 of that $20,000 will be distributed to all the tax earnings that you see on your tax bill. So schools will continue at full revenue. It's the other $18,000 that's the incremental value. The taxes on incremental value that by legislation of a township, municipality or village can be diverted to the city or village. In this case, a township for use to pay one school compensation or to township complete it or return it to developer. So, it's a great

016tool for economic development. Think of your own house. If you could put an addition on your house and it added $100,000 of value to your house and you paid an extra $2,000 a year to Lake County on your house and Lake County could send that $2,000 to Key Bank to help pay for the amount for your addition to your house. Would that be great? you can largely pay for your addition to your house by diverting property taxes for use for in this case your development in the case of economic development. So we come to a project like casement and this project required when it was presented to the board and and the township a couple years ago I that's why I turned over the page here. It's a fivephase unit housing development and you'll see

017from two years ago the average sale prices for 1300 this is what was known two years ago what they would sell and they're going to be built in phases what I understand is phase one started talking to the developer Larredo um days ago phase one is started. Why it's in phases is that the developer is using the proceeds for one phase as they sell homes to pay for the construction and development of later phases and the market can absorb 1358 homes at one time. We'll go through this in a second. Okay. So, you want to put up 1358 homes on a large piece of land. It's about 200 acres of land. There's an incredible amount of what we call public infrastructure costs. You have the water, sewer, all sorts of utilities to the property. Um,

018that's why the township came to the schools two years ago asking for assistance. Essentially, the bargain they're asking for is the schools give up a portion of their revenue. In this case, you're going to be held harmless. That's our explain. that you temporarily give up some of your revenue in the short term to gain significant revenue in the long term. I'm working on Cleveland Brown Stadium right now and that project that school district is have to give up a lot of revenue for the long term to get a large short term get a large long-term gain. A lot of projects, schools are not held harmless, but there's a potential still a potential large gain of revenue that they would not receive in the absence of the project. So, every school district that's faced with a

019tiff would ideally like to have what's called a school friendly tiff where the schools are held harmless, where schools receive full compensation. That's not always possible. Now, townships have various authorities with tax income and financing. What they can do, one is they can impose on you a 10year 75% where you would only receive 25% of the revenue for 10 years. They could do that without a vote at the school. So going into this negotiation, we were aware that without if we completely fault, they could just go ahead with 10 years 75% 25% for 10 years. That outcome would would not be advantageous to the developer because the developer is looking to take advantage of a 30-year tax increment financing which is the maximum time period allowed and to have 100% of the property exempt from

020taxation. All the taxes diverted except the taxes except the revenue that goes to you and the state. M they're compromising the taxes that are distributed to the county portion of their township smaller taxes. Whether it's right or wrong, this is what goes on throughout the state of Ohio. Okay? The county is bread and butter is the sales tax. So while they're losing out on property taxes, they primarily rely on the sale on the sales tax. So, and I think this flowchart is I'm going to go through it to explain it. Um, so remember we have multiple phases and the 30-year clock will start as the homes as each phase is essentially being completed. So, you'll see in the materials providing some of the phases don't start for another 10 years. Okay. But in general, what

021this sheet is showing you the flowchart of revenue. Um, under the tip that was negotiated two years ago, during the first 10 years, the school board receives 50% of what we normally would receive. Then in the next 10 years, receive 75% of what we would receive. And in the final 10 years of the 30-year period, you receive 100% 43 million. And what we negotiated because that was largely unacceptable was that the project was going a concern of I think three of you here and other administrators was that the project was going to generate excess tiff revenue and we wanted to negotiate terms that as soon as it generated excess tiff revenue that the amount that any tiff that any revenue that we had foregone there was extra money available it could paid to the school

022district as soon as possible and called catchups. So essentially by I think it's like 2038 all that any revenue the school district did not receive on account of the tip will be fully paid back to the school district in another spreadsheet. But essentially, we're taking a short-term loss of potential revenue and with ketchup payments will be made whole. This is as opposed to other tips where schools are never made whole. They they agree to give up a portion of revenue to gain a portion of. So what's going to happen here? Okay, so property tax gross tip revenues. Remember I explained to you the $18,000. This is everything but what's all everything but the taxes paid on the land. So this the county is going to collect the gross tax revenue on the incremental value the

023appreciation of the land and the buildings part of the tax bill that's from new construction and appreciation. They're they're also they're they're also creating what's called I don't really want to go into further to generate new revenue. Um the developer created what's called the new community authority. Um it allows in this project site for the levy of four additional mills that's being used to generate funds for um permanent improvements to help develop the site. The taxpayers of this property are voluntarily agreeing when you buy a home to pay four additional mills of property taxes to essentially help to pay for all of the improvements at the site to volunteer. You buy a home, you voluntarily are committing to pay four more mills than someone else and that money goes to a project. What they're looking

024to do is with each phase is what the projected property taxes from based on the overall millillage and this MCA charge is go to a bank and borrow against that just as a school district would borrow again using future proceeds to borrow against those future future flow of revenue they get money today for the total conversions. So you'll see what's called one is the debt service. That's the first obligation. We'll go through this in the spreadsheets in a moment. Um that's and that was a set amount that was agreed to the maximum. And then second would be the schoolboard payment. You'll see right it says use use of funds after debt service. First it's the schoolboard compensation. That's the 50% for the first 10 years, 75% for the next 10 years, and then 100% for

025the final 10 years. And then and you'll see in number one, two, and three. You'll see I I detailed for you the the breakdown by the three uh trimesters. And then the township is also going to receive additional revenue being negotiated. And then we have excess revenue and that excess revenue will start to accumulate after a few years. And what and what the parties agreed to was is that if there's and that gets to what we call accumulated tip revenue once what the developer anticipates is think of water flowing from one cup to another to another to another to five cups is the developer wants to have a million dollars of excess revenue. Once they have more than a million dollars of excess revenue in a fund, that excess revenue can be distributed 50/50 between

026the township and the school board. That's how we'll be made whole sooner rather than later. The initial proposals that we received from the township was immediately get paid off uh in 20 58 or something like that or well out years 28, 29 or 30 and that was unacceptable to the school board to be paid to wait to get to be paid off 30 years from. Does anyone have any questions up to this point? So I wanted to go through this. I'm going to go through the compensation in a second. I wanted to go through this table here. It's in the compensation and it's last spreadsheet, but I wanted to provide to you in color. It's easier to understand. In this compensation, we attach the spreadsheets for all five phases, right? They're summarized on this one

027document here. These are estimates, but it's a summation of all the phases. Okay. So, we have years 1 to 46 because of the different phases. That's the um left column. Tax year, collection year. Remember taxes are collected one year after the levy. And then we have collection year. So you see 2026 and obviously nothing that's getting collected this year and likely next year for 2027 because these were there might be depending on what's done this year there could be a little more coming in 2027 collection the data remember with money to be collected for for 2027 and 2028 that means we're measuring the improvements that existed as of January 1 of 2027 you build a home today, this summer, it's not going to be on the 26 tax bill paid in 27. It's going to

028be on the 27 tax bill paid in 28 because it was constructed after January 1 of 26. There's always a lag because you're measuring as of the date of value of January 1 of the tax year and then you collect the next year. So the estimate was that you look see the column marked SE full compensation. This is what we should be getting every year. If we were fully compensated, no tick. There was no tax increment financing and the developer went ahead with the project. We would be receiving the amount in SD full compensation. Just give you a second. column and look at the bottom. $180 million over the 46 years. This is based on the millage rates and the projected sale values of these homes exceeding the nominal base value. This is additional revenue

029in addition to the nominal revenue you're going to get spread across all of 1400. So, you could see if we were no tip, if they went ahead with it, it starts at $335,000 and ends up um going up to $7 million by the year 2057. Now, why does it drop off after 207? It's because some of the tips being staggered in over five phases. So as properties fall off, no longer subject to the tip, they become taxable. You will receive the revenue in the normal tax collection process. So keep that in mind that you it's not that you're losing revenue, but that um you are um just receiving it outside of the tip. Okay? So when you're treasurer in 2055, we'll talk I should still >> Okay. Um I and I know that so think

030because in property once it hits year 30 it goes off the exempt list and becomes taxable. So it's not in this calculation. Okay. So their problem is again hold you harmless. Okay. They couldn't do that. Remember we're doing 1 to 10 50% 75 100. So, under the terms of the compensation agreement, in year one, you're going to get $161,750 in 2028. And that creates, let's see the second column to the right. That creates the shortfall. And the accumulated running shortfall is $173,378. Everyone with me there? So, I go to the next rule. We should have gotten $521,648. We're only getting $269,872. We're short 251777. Add that to the deficit. Okay. And then you go to the collection year 2030. So we got 9 697. We only get 360. We're up to 761,000 in the in

031the net. 2030. I'm not going to go through each of these, but we got get to um um 2035, we should have received 2,150. Well, let me start out with 2031. What's going on there? In 2031, we should receive 976. We only receive 505, but there's a surplus. Remember I mentioned that oh once there's over a million dollars of excess revenue the township and the schools share that 50/50. So if you add $31,515 to the 505 um and then take that and that's a you know and then offset by the 97697 we should have received. We're still down $439,000. add that to the deficit. In the next year, we should have gotten 142. We only get 889,000. But for what that catchup payment is, it's getting bigger. So the so the deficit that year is

032only $79,000 to be added to the ducting deficit. And on and on. And you can see by year um you can see that by year 2037, is it 2036? Um, we're eating away at that deficit and by year 2039 it's completely gone and it essentially at that point becomes a school friendly tip where we're held harmless. The village will be paying us what we should normally receive. They can't pay us more under Ohio law for this type of traffic that they did. They saw the section of the law that say you lost. So the column with the ketchup payments is the the fourth fifth column from the left is a is a mechanism that provides for additional revenue to make up the loss that are not going to help harmless. Now David, can I ask

033a quick question? >> During this time period where this before the tiff expires, 30 years, >> the district passes a new property tax. How does that impact us? >> Good question. We negotiate the agreement that we get 100% of your revenue from a property tax only. So Dr. Thompson has done a fantastic job about sharing the informing us about House Bill 920 and its impact on the collective of property taxes outside of inside Millers because the taxes tiff and is technically abaded. These taxes until 30 years do not reduce anyone else's taxes, but after 30 years other property taxes will go down because of the overall burden at House Bill 920. Okay, do a very good question. Um, technically all this additional value, hundreds of millions of dollars is profit. It's the same as this

034building we're in right now. So, it's not treated as taxable value for funding purposes at least right now. They don't report to Columbus as taxable value. is not on that reporting and it's not part of your property tax based on calculation of 20. Technically additions to property are not the 920 is not part does not impact new construction. It's the changes in the value once you add the new construction to the duplicate. If you add um a million dollar house in Riverside in Psy Town Street, that million dollars does not impact the 920 application. It's the million dollar value going to a million1, a million3 that's what impacts the 920. So the one of the benefits of TIFFs is is that this added value is not it doesn't you add this value doesn't mean that

035your military goes down. That's a key found. >> So let me ask you about 20 55. I'll also probably be dead and ask anyway at at which at that time that's when the first that the first phase starts to come off this rule and goes onto the regular property tax rules which is why these numbers start to decrease in year 2930 whatever and then >> that money is not going away because we're still going to get it because it's increment financing. It's not it's not current value financing. So, so you're going to continue to be collecting 7 million regardless of whether or not it's here or it's over. >> That's a I mean, >> we're going out so far to project. >> I I get it, but it's estimated inflation. >> If they move uh

036a million, let's say a year comes up and you were getting um $500,000 from this and they move it over to the tax taxable property, you're get the $500,000. >> It's not like it's going away. I mean, it's still going to still going to hit our revenue streams at that same dollar amount. So eventually by the time we're at year 46 47 we're still collecting seven plus million every single year just in a different way. >> Correct. Question two is with the potential constitutional amendment to eliminate property taxes in technicality. These properties are exempt from property taxes. and go. What happens? >> We don't get revenue from these properties because there'll be no property taxes. Remember, >> the the taxpayers continue to pay property taxes, >> okay? on the properties. The homeowner here, the 1358

037homeowners are unless they're really curious. Okay, the unless they're really curious, the tax code is not going to indicate there's a they go on the auditor's website, it may indicate that um but there's no property taxes then there's no tax code to pay. So, >> so what happens to >> the developer goes into default? >> Yeah. The developer and that's okay. >> Basically, >> yeah, >> just like we do if we don't collect property. >> I mean, you've heard you've heard it, you know, in the testimony. Yes. >> All the bonds, everything is tied. It's the safest source of revenue for government funding is property taxes. So, that's why >> it's easier to borrow against property taxes than sale, you know, think of nine think of the great recession where in unemployment went up, it's

038hard to borrow against incomes. It's harder. So that's why that I guess that's that was part of my line of questioning is that if we go with property tax for any future or current or future facility improvements, the chances the chances of the state allowing districts and people who have debt that are that's being borrowed against property taxes and allowing them to go into default is is is slim. I'm not going to say it wouldn't happen, but it's going to be slim because they're not going to let every every school, college, university, hospital, everything that is being funded by bond financing to go into default. That would be my in a perfect world. >> You're talking about Armageddon. >> Yes. >> Well, I'm just saying like that to me that's like a slim. >> That's

039why that's why the efforts have been undertaken with the legislation in Columbus and why many states have considered the abolition and um have never done it and that's why you saw last week the general assembly is increasing the homestead exemption which a lot of people are have discussed the biggest issue with property taxes is with seniors and those on fixed incomes um addressing that issue is one of the largest the issue is always how can the general assembly pay for those >> well and I guess my my piggyback to that is and I'm jumping ahead a little bit maybe but you go if you are a bond if you are paying off construction with property taxes that are outside of a bond levy you're putting yourself at risk I'm not not an expert at this,

040but it's in terms of the document that um if you're signing that document and your security as a property taxes, then what you know, of course, you know, you you're taking that into account. Um >> it's different than a bond issue. That's all I'm saying. So, >> and I think we'll get more into that with >> So, right, you can continue. I just wanted to make sure we're going to continue to collect this $7 million. >> I mean, what we negotiated was in the event you do pass a property tax levy because their modeling doesn't assume additional mill. So if you pass one likely over the next 46 years or so that I mean I mean but again that you should be if we didn't ask for it the township if we didn't put that

041in the agreement let's say you pass a 3 mil le and there's three more mills you know we would get paid off sooner the township if we didn't ask for it they would have just three additional mills We didn't ask >> David, how does the roll back impact this or they're the piggyback of not only the owner occupied but then also the homestead if they obviously these homes Madrid they're owner occupied but that doubling right there of >> if there's less collected that just that it acts you the same way it acts you now with less collected >> it's see remember These are these are predicted based on the values of the home >> projected based on the value times the effective millage. Okay. >> So when the county has the the two um was

042it the piggyback and the homestead? >> Yeah. >> Um have they decided that yet? this year. >> They're telling us that at least for one more year they're going to maintain both exemptions, >> but that it just means less revenue coming in, which means these projections would all be over inflated. For example, if those stayed in place in perpetuity and it was senior housing and these numbers would all have to be reduced, >> assuming the average sale price. >> If the sale prices are higher, it means more revenue. It means you that means the catch-up payments will be larger. That means you'll be paid off soon. >> Okay. >> If the values are lower, it means they'll be pushed off into the future. >> And then I have one more question. And we are assuming

043that there's houses being built in 26 that'll be on the register for January 1st of 27. That's not going to h like I haven't seen anything. I heard they're moving dirt, right? They're moving dirt. That's all >> I would expect. I would expect 20. >> So probably everything in this schedule just moves down here, >> right? >> We have no control over that. >> I And I don't know if anyone recalls the um at what um stage did they um talk about the access from the development to Madison Avenue like there was going to be a road. >> Um how many were there? >> I can't remember. I think in stage >> four stages. Yeah. Okay. >> But that doesn't >> no. I'm just wanting that to be on the table that there was a

044plan for that. >> We do have to >> I think one of the >> So, it's going to cost us >> it will cost us. >> One thought is when you look when your administration you look at the you have some guidance here as to when you should start receiving revenue and it's really more or less pushed off or it's not within the immediate 3 to five year period >> and it's prediction right so like you said how many homes whether the what's the value of the home >> so it's not reflected in any in any forecast zero is reflected >> right we do not have reflected >> yeah no these prices they were saying these are now two three years old you said these here are two years old so they could You have

045no again like think of it this another thing while they're making you whole likely within 10 to 15 years. Okay, remember anyone could could propose any development has an article in the paper and you just treasur can't count on it until >> and money comes in >> and the a developer can you know at any point here developer cease pursuing this or sell off part of it um you know there's a huge demand but we don't have control so I I think the story here is there is potential for additional revenue right at some point in the future hoping sooner rather than later it's in our best interest as a district if they start to build on and putting up the homes, right? But again, we just cannot >> I would look at it like

046like think of it like an industrial park that's you know it's going to come on a large industrial campus but over time there'll be added revenue but it's going to take a period of time that you do not have full control over and it's a positive as opposed to you know you're in a increasingly blighted area where it's things are just turning solid but it's in your immediate 3 to 5 year forecast. It's not a huge impact. I hope that helps explain it. The agreement is here. Um let me just touch on one in response to a question. Um page seven is the page seven of this agreement is the school payments. Num B2 is additional school district millage payment and it says for any exemption year for each phase of the project the annual

047payment riverside and Auburn comprising the payment for additional school mill and the definition of additional school millage is um means any it's 100% of the taxes due to any new millillage approved by Riverside and Auburn after your data disagree. >> Did we determine who's tracking all this? >> I can even hear that there there's a administrator trustee that has to be engaged to do that. In any event, um I'll be there for the next 46 years. >> We haven't we haven't determined that yet. Is that correct? >> I believe I thought it was put into the agreement that we were going to have somebody who tracked it because There would be there would it's in the agreement but also the the fact of the matter is is that all of these >> okay all these

0481358 homes the county is going to have to so that the taxes paid on all of these beyond the taxes on the base they're going to remember the the village the township is going to be very interested that the county sends them the right amount of money the township is getting money from this project. More importantly, debt service has to be paid. So, this the township and and the developer, the debt service want to make sure that they they're receiving full revenue, not only just because of you all the school board, but it's the township's getting money from the project and and and the taxes, the so we call service payments are being used to pay off the debt service. There's huge motivation to make sure this is calculated properly. So I would anticipate that

049they would have a and we discussed it that they would have an administrator, a trustee that would oversee this. They would engage someone. >> And will they be engaging them? Will we be doing that jointly? >> They because we had the issue with the other tip that we had that it wasn't that nobody And I and we we wanted to make sure that that didn't happen. So I know we built it into here and we wrote that in here. I just want to know who's responsible for naming that individual firm company who's going to do that and how much how much oversight do we get over there? If I'm still here, I'll have questions. >> I know, right? Even if she's not here, you know, I might show up at a meeting just >> we

050have here section sections three and four address these questions. Sections three address how the township and the school will work together and communicate each other as to all the information for the tax rates and the collections. Reconciliation number section four page nine. Okay. The township and school districts shall annually meet to review, calculate, and reconcile payments to the school districts on report December 1 of this year. The township and school district may engage a consultant for assistance in the calculation for which the township and school board may request reimbursement through service payments prior to the section of the branch and any unreimbured expenses. So what we would have to do at a later time is work with the township as to who is engaged and how that person is compensated. Not until again the properties

051start to >> Okay. >> We right now if we were somewhere it would be a very easy job. >> I could do it. >> But but typically um I would flats in Cleveland but flats east downtown Huntington Bank has a third party administrator. you know, they're they're out there and Mike knows of his groups, others that prepare these reports and oversee that. >> You'll still be here in the 2072. >> I'm hoping to be here by the end of the meeting. >> That's not an insult to me. That's that's more comment on my well-being. That's been a long day. Turn out for Jimmy Lee and Jo. Do you have any questions or just so far? >> This is kind of my profession, so it should make sense. >> We didn't screw up too much. >>

052Well, I think it looks good. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> Is who's doing the update on Painville City? >> So, that is So, next up for Paysville City is um >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. David, you have Mike Purcella and I did not know that Austin Maguan of the Riverside Maguan um will be here uh are here to kind of present an update of >> Yes, that's correct. Um >> you'll love Austin just a high high bar for me. >> Um so he is here to provide an update on the Heisen Park tip update as well as potential cops associated with a income tax Good evening. Good to see everyone. If you can hear me from here, I'll just remain in this seat. Um David did a lot of the heav he

053heavy lifting in his presentation exactly on how these tiffs work. Um that particular tiff has the benefit of projections whereas the Heisley Park tiffs uh we have the burden of historical uh performance that needs to be addressed. So, I have been working diligently with the city of Payneesville, their council, uh, trying to dissect the information that was put forth in these original tiffs. So, right now, we're focusing on two specific areas, the Shamrock TIFF and the Encore TIFF, one of which seems to have a very convoluted payout structure. I was uh briefly uh talking to David about before the meeting started where you would think the way it is structured because it is within the realms of that 10year 7525. However, there was a secondary portion of that tiff compensation agreement that specifically targeted the

054catchup payments as David uh aptly describes them as 100% but over specific multiple zoned areas and it's extremely complicated and very convoluted. That's the one tiff. Now the encore tiff, we don't believe there have been any payments made yet. Though per the compensation agreement, we have reached the status of payments should be being made. The the duplicate has met the standard uh that's set forth in the compensation agreement. So these are the arars payments that we're currently trying to calculate with Payneesville's council. Ultimately, what I do suggest in as much that the district has obviously very uh capable council relative to the tit side and that I represent both the city and the schools which has been laid out in our engagement uh agreements that I have discussed this with the city that what we

055need to do is readress the compensation agreements originally drafted on those two tiffs and streamline them. They are going to require kind of a restructure and before that happens though we will go through and we are already in the midst. I have two acrruel reports in front of me as to what has been paid to the district and what should have been or what possibly may have been overpaid to the district because of this complex underlying zoning complications with the original tiff. The problem is that since the tiff wasn't stated, there is nothing that we're finding that kind of held the reszoning of these properties in check. And coming back to that very particular comment about an independent auditor overseeing these tiffs, these particular tiffs sorely needed that. That is not of uh anyone's blame

056on either side of the situation. Unfortunately, these tiffs, when not well represented, seem to fall through the cracks when there is not good oversight on the documents. Which bring me to the last point on these TIFFs. The documentation for these tiffs themselves are sparse and we're working off second, third generation uh scanned PDFs. So, we're having difficulty even reading some of these compensation agreements, let alone figuring out their underlying structures. So, the main rub lies with the zoning on some of these particular parcels. But, I have a parcel inventory in hand. I have been in contact with Lake County a otter specifically uh Barb Hoya who's been incredibly helpful with kind of outlining the uh parcel inventory for us. So I got council working on this. I think ultimately what I would like to do

057and I'll talk to David further uh upon conclusion of our discussions tonight that I would like to engage him on behalf of the city to kind of meet in the middle with or on behalf of the school district to meet with in the middle with the city renegotiate these structures come to an agreement which what is owed and realign these tits so they're much more stand uh straightforward uh in their interpretation and then apply an annual audit to Much in the same vein as was just discussed for the casement tips. >> How old are these? >> Uh they started I'm sorry this a lot of this just broke for me over the last 24 to 48 hours. So that's why I don't have any prepared material because nothing's really has been established. So I don't

058want to disseminate any material uh till we know it is proper. Give me one second. So I'm showing the first payment started in 2019 and we are showing on the one that's >> for Shamrock but I think they were >> Yeah. So we are showing uh no payment in 23 and 25 for one of the tips. >> When did those originate? >> 20. So they hit the duplicate I believe they started in 2018 hit the duplicate in 2019 per the compensation agreement. That's when the first pays were made. >> Mr. Thank you for all that and Mr. Se, thank you. When when you say that the city isn't meeting the agreement, what gives them the autonomy? Is it just simply because the documents are not legible? The city has unfortunately experienced a kind of a

059bump in the road with the turnover in some of their administration and they had a terrible situation with the conversion of software that was systemic throughout their entire administration where a lot of information was not compiled electronically as was promised per the vendor of that software. They have since severed that agreement. But as you can imagine here, what it takes to reconnect accounts with your depository banks and with your local chapters, it was a mess. So I think through the conversion process and through the lack of uh continued oversight there, this is something where unfortunately the auditor can only take it so far as to say, "Have you made this payment yet?" The auditor is simply a a a bookkeeper at that juncture. So, I'm not making excuses for them by any means, but none

060of this was done with any intent. I >> appreciate that. And you're saying this is what's new to you in the last couple days. This >> it's been we have been working on this for over a year >> and the documentation lack thereof was our biggest hurdle. Then unfortunately, you know, some I said I'm making no excuses, but I got a large list of them here. We had uh one lawyer who really uh on behalf of the city was doing the lying share of all the work very unexpectedly resigned and went to another firm. They were hoping that there could have been some reciprocity there to have shared the work that was done, but I don't know what happened there, nor can I comment, but somehow a lot of work was lost. Last question for

061you. And not to put the cart before the horse, but even though this is still relatively new, how complicated do you think this will be for them to untangle? >> It's not going to be that complicated as long as we have again capable minds to come together, realize the complexities and simply iron them out. I think there has to be a realization. We are not talking about I think what the schools has received versus what the tiff should have paid off. We're pretty close. I don't think we're talking about large sums of money that are in the ether here. nor are we talking that something that is irreparable because it definitely is reparable. Uh, so I just think we have to come to a a much more efficient approach to the compensation agreement, outlining the

062properties, making a much much more understandable overarching approach to the zoning of those said parcels, which that's really what's getting complicated because certain parcels have been reszoned where they're like no longer under the TIFF agreement, but now they fall under what there is a Jed out there as Well, >> you're able to calculate what the county sent to the city of painful. >> Yes. >> For every year. >> Yes. >> And then once that's known, like the spreadsheet we showed you, the other one, >> what was paid each year to Riverside, what the shortfall is or if there was an excess, >> and then >> discuss how that shortfall should be handled. >> Yeah. And remember this is remember that if there's a shortfall and it can't be paid back immediately at one time where

063your portion is only part of the total tax bill the I don't know what the rest of it's being pledged for. The rest of the non-school property taxes are being pledged for, but there may be money accumulating to the city beyond what's paid to the school district that could be available to reimburse you for barone revenue. But we would just need to know what's been sent to the city, what's been sent to you to make the next take the next steps. Right. >> That's it. And I think we have gotten a good amount of that information preliminarily acred. But the problem again being is it being acred properly according to the underlying parcels. That's where we're kind of at a stalemate with the county. Yes. >> So the original agreement um obviously it wasn't structured

064like the casement one. Um, was it a typical one that very small amount >> like 25? I don't know. I mean, >> some of them are 40, 50, >> and the majority of what we're talking about on one of these tiffs has nothing to do with owner occupied homes, which makes it all the more complicated. >> Okay, >> so that's the thing. When you're doing mostly uh retail property, owner occupied property, you have a much more delineated approach as to the calculations. you have a base value and then based upon the assessment by the auditor you have your incremental value starting to increase here each one of those scales has increased or decreased independently of one another and so that's where we have to simply say some of this the way it's written and I

065am not a lawyer but the way some of this is written I mean it is almost indecipherable as to how you could possibly calculate exact amounts of money. There is so much I guess I don't know what you could uh some of the language is so intense it becomes nebulous. It's like that makes no sense. So we've got the lawyers combing it over on behalf of the city. Therefore, because that is obviously going to be on their dock. So that's why they know their commitment. They know that they have to reach an agreement. they have been more than willing to uh get through this. We just talked we're we're working with the city currently for a note related to their EPA grant. So this has been an exercise in efficiency for us having just recently

066done this transaction. This has all been going on in the background. We've got a lot of progress made. So we are very close to coming to this agreement that David was kind enough to just summarize right there. Get through what's paid, what's owed, what may not be owed. streamline the underlying properties and we're well on our way to do that. I'll be reaching out to all the necessary individuals here in the next few weeks to start getting this on the phone to get this across the go line. >> So I get I guess just to recap possible revenue out there. >> Yes. Oh yes. >> Unknown what it looks like. We hope that we can get some clarity on it and have updates soon. >> Yes. >> Right. >> The district has received revenue from

067this. So there has been income from this tiff already. uh uh taken in by the school district sent from the city. We just need to make get it up to snuff. >> Yep. >> Perfect. >> It sounds like there's some level of negligence on the part of the city. >> Yeah. >> And then that leads me to question why why don't if if it's an indecipherable document, would a judge throw the whole tiff out and it's just tax there? there. If if that is the approach you wanted to take to this, um I would we would then have to kind of take an examination of what had been paid and making certain that whatever exit clauses are in there. But that is obviously something the district may very well want to consider. I do think

068this one though having provided tangible revenue, it is your best interest to negotiate kind of either catch-ups or streamlining it to make certain this revenue continues per the compensation agreement. >> We I'm not aware of we did not negotiate these agreements. >> But you have a copy of these agreements or >> I have I have individual pages. Honestly, the documents have been very difficult to come by. >> I'm not gonna ask. >> Well, we should hand the >> We should ask the Well, >> I mean they might even >> I am going to search it. >> Gary would have been. >> Yeah. >> Well, this would have been what you want to address. >> What was the term of the tiff? Was it a school friendly tip or was it a >> Yeah, there's definitely

069uh there are makehole payments on behalf of the school district. They did not. This was not a tip. It was approved by the school district and there are minimum service payments that have been made. As a matter of fact, the one tiff that is has just met uh their threshold beyond the service payments. That's the one we really want to pay attention to because for the last two years that has uh produced a surplus and there is money due to the district on those two years. >> Well, okay. So, between the school district and the city, we can obtain any documents. >> It would also be filed with the Ohio Department of Taxation. It would be included in application down there. So Mike and I can talk about how to get the documents, anything missing.

070Um, interpreting it. Um, if they've made payments already, then they should be >> should be it should be easy to interpret. >> Again, the the big problem was in the midst of the tiff, there has been a s significant reszoning of one of the areas. So, it really has kind of turned the tiff on its head. Do you think that it was a situation that you the district was not paid because they had a few different finance directors there? And >> I think definitely think this is something again there was no intentional neglect. There was an oversight but yeah through the course of uh changing specific administrators now they've definitely hit solid ground. They are very willing. They want to get this resolved as badly as you do. I have gotten no resistance from them

071whatsoever. uh just prior to uh Dr. Thompson coming on board. We were already making some progress with with Mr. Plat. >> So I I guess what I would ask Mr. Se if you don't mind working with and then maybe we can get an update on what possible direction again we want to maintain a good relationship with the city also. So I think that's >> Mike is the was the reasoning the one piece of property that was zoned to conservation. I believe that was part of it and then they didn't build on any of it >> where there still though was designated under the tiff agreement. >> This is the east side of Shamrock. >> Was this the I know I'm not super specific on the dip situation. Remember he was watching something I will work

072with. >> We will follow up with Chris and Steve. We will then follow up with you out there. It's interesting to me that the auditor's office of the county doesn't keep this documentation and calculate these things as it's under their purview of tax payments like you would think. >> There are two if under the law in one situation where the tip is school friendly where you're the legislation provides the school board to be held harmless. the county can the legislation can direct the county to pay the school district and it's its normal payment so the county makes the payment. This county does not like to do that and um I talked to the auditor about it. They prefer that all the funds, all the service payments, the incremental value I spoke about the taxes on

073the incremental value be sent to the local government to then distribute to the schools. >> Okay. hope so into a compensation, >> but they're still distributing the tax and they still have to collect the tax and they still have to assess the tax. You would think that they would have a vested interest to do it appropriately and track it. So that's just a dis >> they're simply directed by the legislation to send to send all the property taxes on the incremental value to the in this case the city of Angville. Well, one question I would have is how if you have an agreement, um, how can something be reszoned where it doesn't allow our agreement to go forward? I mean, is isn't that a litigated issue? >> I don't know so much if it was

074reszoned so it couldn't go forward, but it was reszoned in a way in a manner though that I don't think it got caught on the auditor side of things where then the original tiff had applied to a particular type of zoning. the auditor just didn't catch up. That is the issue. It wasn't so much that the zoning was in conflict with the agreement is that the zoning created a a glitch in those very collections. >> I can't imagine the zoning would impact the operation. It would where it would impact it is the amount of revenue that's generated. Right? So you had um if the let's say we just talked about casement, right? Developer plans casement, they come in front of you, you approve it, right? And then a a year later the township changes the

075zoning for the site, right? Creates a larger minimum lot size. They double the minimum lot size. Instead of it now being 1300 homes, it's now 600 homes. Well, that would just flow right into the anticipated revenue that you're going to receive. >> It wouldn't bar the payment to the district. We have to we have I've not seen this compensation agreement. >> Okay. >> So, we have to review it to see what it says. >> Yeah. >> Would the same be true if they went the opposite direction and made and resulted? >> Oh, I think so. >> If it made it more if it made it more valuable use, it it would increase the revenue potentially. Yes. wasn't good enough commercial industrial ships of the owner and ships of the compensation and we did the tip

076tip is not likely to go to what it's zoned it's simply about what the money does >> right >> so again it sounds like we have a lot of >> there there are a lot of complexities to all all of this had a lot of there was a lot of parties >> but we have we are I just I want to read it we are not starting from square one here we've got a lot of data a lot of input a lot of analysis. Now, we just have to come to an agreement, make certain we're acrewing these payments properly, find out what is owed, what is not, and then we're just going to reddraft, and then there will be new signatures on the new compensation agreement, >> and the the city is ready to to

077negotiate those those new terms. >> Let the city know we're happy to set up direct deposits. >> I'll go pay off. It's >> not that far, right? >> All right. So, if you're not confused enough, we'll move on. Um, and actually going to skip ahead to talk about um just some information that we received back as we did the resolution of necessity from the state taxing authority. We did receive back a formal letter that said the 13.8 uh million dollars annually would be would be equitable to a 1.0% earned income tax. So they do round it was actually a little bit more than that but they rounded it back to one. Um which would roughly equate to a 7.89 mil property tax levy. Um one thing that uh Mr. McIntyre and I have discussed going

078through this and we is the ballot language if we were to proceed with the uh resolution of this to proceed. Um thank you. Uh would be the recommended uh we're allowed to specify um one of three things. We can specify that the 1% is for >> this this is in the resolution not the ballot. >> Okay. So in the res Thank you. So in the resolution we can specify that it is for you know what and go. >> I'll turn it over to D. in the resolution um it could specify that the purposes this is for property tax levies too for current expenses or for permanent improvements. Now there's a provision in the law that allows in the resolution to specify for the purpose of the levy is for current expenses and permanent improvements. The

079district in the resolution would need to specify a portion. How much of the 1% will be portion to current expenses and how much would be a portion to permanent improvements. at your next meeting, should you elect to vote to um adopt the send the levy to the you know to the board of elections in that resolution there'll be an aortionment spelled out for you to consider of what percentage I guess of the what portion of the 1% will go to current expenses and what percentage will go to permanent improvements. Now, that's slightly different from the ballot language. Ballot language in Ohio is prescribed by Ohio law and cannot be deviated from. It's in 5748.03. And in that ballot language, did you have that up or I can go through that? >> Was it in perpetuity?

080>> It was a good question. envelope. The the the term can be for a number of years or for a continuing period of time. In Ohio with property tax levies, the maximum amount, I believe, is 10 years for the general property tax levy. There may it could be longer for some other levies that no one prepares to put on the ballot because they never will get passed. Um but um for emergency levies it before they eliminated them it was 10 years and for current expense levies it was 5 years for property tax but we have a choice for a number of years or a continuing period of time noting that and you know at some point in the future you can always a board can cease >> I don't know if that was my my

081question is is the aortionment going to be in perpetuity board in the future elect to say I don't want to do that anymore. >> I think that's a that's a that is the question that we are getting to because there is language but we don't know what it means because it kind of contradicts itself. >> Yeah, David can talk more about this but there there's language that and I'm not sure if this is answer your question but there's language in the statute for school district income tax that allows the aortionment to vary by year. That's murky. >> But but if we do an 8020 split, which 20 is not enough to pay the debt issuance, right? >> So it is not enough for debt service, but we want the flexibility at the beginning when we're

082we have we haven't pulled the cops yet and we're staggering the cops, two cops issuances. And the purpose is so that we can dig ourselves out of the financial hole that we're in. Plus, it it's not until 29 that the income tax will hit full collections. But if we do, correct me if I'm wrong, David. Uh Dan Dan it if we go 8020 we know that we we can take general fund and transfer it to the PI at any point to in other words to extend it from 20% to 25% or 30% or whatever that number is that we need to pay that debt issuance. We what we what we have to make sure and what we've calculated is is the dollar amount from a 1% going to be enough to secure us financially for

083the foreseeable future at least at least seven or eight years minimally. I think longer than that but I'll be conservative and during that same time period make our debt payment. So I'm I'm going to ask the question again because I'm going to ask it differently. If you say, for example, we're going to aortion it 8020, 7030, however you decide to aortion the revenue, is it a requirement that the 30% for permanent improvement go into a separate fund in perpetuity and it's not going to change? And if you're going to say we're not going to do that, then you can change it and another board can decide that we're in fiscal dilemma right now. We're going to we need to pay teachers. Like I I'm default on you would default on your loan. >> I understand

084that. But I want to be real clear about like what >> what that proposal what is it? >> It would be just as in a property tax levy where you do a joint current expense improvement improvement property tax levy. >> It's would it have to go in? you'd have unless you were to come back and replace it essentially terminate it the 20 years from now terminate it and replace it with some new type of you know new terms. So if we said if if we said it's 7030 and 30% would have to go to a designated fund and you can't then would not be able to spend that on current expenses >> just like a bond just like a property tax just want to make sure I clear >> unless you terminated the entire >>

085right but okay >> can I ask a question on that what would be the the harm in doing it all for an expense of >> that that's a good question that provides the most flexibility except >> I don't like the language >> the language >> the what you're always what's the political issue is you're then you're saying all of it's going for current expenses and as opposed to some of it going to permanent improvements >> because you would look you would read on the ballot and it would say nothing about building facilities or anything else. So, wait a minute. I I thought I heard Dr. Ratino or or Mr. Patrice say this is going to be a building based out of this >> and but the language doesn't say doesn't speak to it. So, that

086would be incredibly confusing. >> Can we before our board meeting get some possible examples of the different types of language that would look like in the different scenarios? I'd be curious to see what those >> specifically to that question. Scenarios of the 8020 split. >> Well, to a split yet aortionment or or to no split like but you're still going to do it. I I want to know what those look like because that's a the public would not >> the resolution the resolution >> the resolution will specify the aortionment the ballot language because it's prescribed in Ohio law will simply indicate the purpose for the purpose of current expenses and permanent improvements. There's no provision in the law to spell out the aortionment on the ballot. >> But you're doing that by resolution, correct? That

087another future board can't go and change. >> Correct. >> Okay. I just want to be clear. >> Why? Why? Why could that not be changed? >> I don't know. That's what I >> resolution to proceed. >> No, I thought Miss Ky was saying that it's weird to go in with generic ballot language as suggested by Mr. See, in terms of there's no specificity aligned to the aortionment as it is stated on the ballot, it is going to be an earned income tax that is going to be applied toward capital and operating. The board then proceeds with a resolution to apply an aortionment to say 8020. Belinda, you are of the belief that once that change is made that it cannot be changed again. I don't that's what I'm asking because >> I I don't see

088why but again I definitely not a lawyer but I wouldn't see why >> the ballot l the ballot language is fixed so >> right the ballot language I don't have a >> resolution you would want to it's going to be specified the aortionment okay you're going into a completely gray area as to whether you can change it at a later date the argument against that would be that the board that put the issue on the ballot said it was going to be 20% for permanent improvements, 80% for current expenses. So, how can that really be? You know, you're going to a whole gray area and tax levy, you never want to go into a gray area where someone would come in and challenge it, right? Challenge the collection on the on the levy. The thought

089pattern I think your your treasur is getting at is It's the same thing with a combo property tax um current expense PI levy is that you're you're saying you're indicating what you anticipate going out into the future, you definitely want to set aside for permanent improvements, okay? Or PI fund. So, >> but because it's not going into a designated PI fund by law, like it's not going to be it's not designated for that because it's >> it doesn't have to be sent it doesn't have to be spent on that. Once it goes into a like you pass a property tax levy and you pass it for PI, it goes into a PI fund. You can't spend it on current expenses. This is your choice, but we're designating it up front. But who's to say another

090board 10 years from now, eight years from now, five years from now decides they don't want to do that anymore and they would like to designate it to be 9010. >> I think I think you are committing that that if you're saying that 20% of it is going into the PI fund that that that's where it will go. >> Yeah. Yeah. The statute's clear that you can vary the aortionment by year and the resolution to proceed has to contain the aortionment language. However, the respect so the respective portions of the PI and the current expenses can as I said change by year but they can't ever exceed the original amount. So if you say 1% income tax and it's 80 for current expenses and 20 for permanent improvements, then you are obligated, at least according

091to current Ohio authority, to make sure that 20% of that money goes into a permanent improvement fund. But you just said it can change every year >> unless you say in your resolution to proceed that you're going to do year 1 8020 year 2 7030 year three 6040 >> year three and all subsequent years you would land that 6040. Then if you do that in your resolution to proceed, then you're obligated to put those monies as aortioned into the correct funds. >> And then when that is paid by the state, because now it's not being paid by the auditor because the income tax is paid by the state, are they going to pay it into the permanent improvement fund? You know, like when we get when we get property tax money, they they separate it

092and they give it to you and you get it in two funds. They send you two documents, two payments. Sometimes it's two hands, but they send you two documents. >> I think this is going to be I don't know this this is conjecture and we will certainly try to assist with the demonstration. I was under the impression though that money comes in to general fund with a transfer to permanent improvement. >> So transfers are approved by the board. So again, like I'm >> but you're going to be bound to that. But e but even our $15 million cops that we just took out >> aboard 5 years from now >> could say we're not going to procreate the money to pay that. >> I understand that. I absolutely agree. Like I >> so it's really

093no different. And even in that regard, >> way bigger, >> the creditors know more >> that there is an underlying permanent improvement that funds that. But the board is not legally bound on based on the resolution to pay it from permanent improvement. It's why we generally refer to cops issues a lot in our industry as a general fund borrowing >> or pay it at all. >> Well, you could walk away from it. That's a whole other >> Yeah, let's not go there. I know that. We're not going there. That's a just a a terrible sound. >> I I do think that although we are struggling with this, I do know that we are not the only district even in LA County who is considering a levy like this with the split. >> Um and on

094November so it's not only it won't solely be us that has to sell this down. We are the one we are of that I know um are the ones who are putting a new building project. >> Right. We're a little bit different because >> but there are other districts who are considering an income tax earned income tax and specifying a percentage to operating and a percentage to permanent improvements. >> There are also some specific times when somebody does a bond levy for facility building that they have to put on operating dollars to be able to play. That's a requirement by law also. I get that. I'm >> I'm just trying to weigh through all the scenarios, folks. I I need to I need to understand >> I think what I think what the treasurer is

095mentioning is >> when you discussed the split >> because you're setting forth a certain amount for PI initially versus current expenses. It's you're calculating because current expenses can be used for PI. You're trying to anticip but PI can't be used for current expenses. You're trying to create debits. But I I would also agree that ballot language that can that can that ballot language now I know that we don't necessarily but ballot language that contains the actual intent of it for both current expenses and permanent improvements is beneficial because it does explain the purpose of it. It's not just for current expenses and I think that declaring some sort of split is essential to this. >> I think the 8020 split as it grows makes sense. um maybe 7030 as we look at but 8020 is

096definitely the safest as it goes. I think we have enough to go and how we how we explain this is is a very difficult concept as to what this explanation is but it does really benefit from some of the things that we've talked about a lot that that do hamstring us. It's not subject to House Bill 920. Um it's we are projecting growth in it and we are projecting very conservative growth. We are projecting growth. I think with the discussion of the tiff and the houses and all of those developments that come. Yes, we are going to see we talked about and discussed the the future revenue from that. But as they move in, assuming that they are working um to afford those houses and not necessarily retired and if they are they're not impacted.

097But if they're if they are working families with students, we will as soon as they move in, you know, give it I would assume the next school year, but we would we would collect income from them immediately and not based on the infrastructure of the tiff and tiff agreement and all of that. It's an immediate raise in income from right there where our concern with the tiff and yes we worked hard to make it school friendly but still if we have a number of families move in even though they're building ranch houses first we all know people can you know I grew up in a ranch home and families can live in ranches um >> I love a ranch house I hate >> we've all discussed that as well um but really in looking at

098what that is we don't see that revenue but we see the impact with with children and all that give us a way to address that both from an operation standpoint and a facility standpoint. I think that's the that is one of the ways in terms of where we look at potentially additional revenue and grow how property tax is there. It's also not bound to all the scrutiny that comes with property tax right now and and all that that's there. I know that it's and I I agree and I think we all agree it is not as safe um as as a property tax um issue. I think we've all come to say that, but I think it is still to to where this district is and the growth of it and what we are seeing.

099We are seeing more houses come in. We are seeing more developments come in. I think those developments are getting tiffed and jetted, if that's even a verb, but let's use it as a verb. Um, and and all of those others. I think we're seeing those things happen where we don't see the impact the full impact until 10 years down the road, but we're going to see this the the students come from it and we're going to need the the property if we were to be successful with this. And I think that there's a very good shot if we are successful with it. That gives us an opportunity to capitalize on on the residents as they're in now and not impact our seniors um as much. And it's not a although the levy B the hard

100part for us and we're really working to sell it is although the levy language speaks to continuous it's not continuous for the individual because the continuousness ends when you retire and start collecting the pension and or if you change employment or you're and and your salary is less it goes less with you. Whereas a property tax issue either continuous or for a 37year period of time that's I mean that's the rest of my lifetime as far as I would I would say and that over that time is much more of an of an investment than it would be for my and we're a two income family and it's more upfront but it's a shorter period of time we're paying more upfront and that and there is some of that so having people have that that's

101a tough calculation it's a whole lot easier sometimes to say mills is so much for every $100,000 or and that's also tough because you got to add up all that. But, you know, 1% the math on 1%'s easy. I know how much it's going to cost me. This is how much it's going to cost. But then it's this is how much it's going to cost you. How long do you think you're going to work? This is how much it's going to cost, you know, roughly um versus a 35 year how much your house is and reappraisals and all that. we are expecting significant appraisals, but then you can put in what the state's doing and property taxes are like that's advanced calculus and that's something >> one of the things I wanted to bring up

102was um and you probably have read some of this uh Concord is planning that town center project. I'm sure you've been >> part of those discussions and one of the things they mentioned which was a surprise to me is another school in that complex. They've not mentioned another school to leave the whole at all. I did. So, >> and I know that that plan when they kind of came together with all of that um was really a what would you like? >> Um, but I don't >> I think part of that plan was already >> part of that plan was they repurposed some repurposed. Now they're going to need another smaller fire station because of the the density that they're going to create in here and who they're trying to attract. Yes, seniors. Kind of

103what we heard with Casement. But then there'll be affordable housing starting at 300,000. This is what everybody always says um you know for families and to be able to afford. So I'm just saying populationwise we could see a lot of students in that portion. could and I think if we saw those if we saw that population again this is where that income tax would come in right away >> which would be the benefit of immediate revenue >> but again >> but that's that's down the road and and I think I've talked to and part of it and talking to court is >> the true infrastructure that's there >> and having the infrastructure to have the high density housing that they need and all and all of the things they need to have that infrastructure put

104in place that's a long ways out including, you know, sewers. Casement's biggest struggle right now is getting the sewers to Casement from um Eerie Shores and running it shores has issues with sewers and the sewers backing up and to make sure that that doesn't happen in a 1300 home development like casement which are already on the grid and and ready for on the grid. Concord to develop which can still go to that same station that's or they'd have to develop a a new treatment station which is that's that's an incredible amount of infrastructure money that they have to put up. I don't think they have that and that was a group there was a great group it was a great group to be a part of talking about the visioning of and what they think

105and how they want to change the development and all that and then the company that came in kind of said hey this is the plan this is how we see Concord Township changing a little bit. I still think that a lot of the residents who are there come out and say to the part of Concord is we appreciate the green space. We like the bigger lots. Um yes, affordable homes to an extent um an affordable at 300,000 is a starter home. I mean that's you if you're buying a $300,000 starter home, you're probably at 400,000 by the time you get a home with actual doors and closets and everything that you need into it and you build. Um as anyone who's been a part of that, that starting point is always significantly lower than where

106you get into but I do think I mean they did talk there were developers who sat at the table who said if you want local developers you need to look at density because that's how local developers particular project is to work on higher density housing and I think that's a that that's a solution that's down the road I'm not even sure that they're going to approve that that's still under some of that where they're >> they did another roll out the other day and it sounds like it's ready to go so it would I would appreciate if you'd follow up with and or whoever. >> Yeah. I mean again that we that casement was coming quicker than it is and it's still >> I know we you're correct but um I think >> I just

107had one question uh I I think from a meeting prior maybe finance committee meeting uh PI fund can only be gets capped. Is that correct? >> Can what? >> Can only go up so so so high for a portion of general fund or something like that. No >> no no it can only used for certain fun. >> Yeah. Okay. So I was just wondering if uh if that was the case. So my memory is not as good as it once was. So that there's no issue if we start collecting too much PI. >> That's all I'm like. >> It may have been about the debt. >> No. >> As part of the percentage general fund you can have on the books. >> Say that again. >> The amount of debt you can have as a

108district. >> That's 9%. you can although your debt can only be 9% of your total property valuation >> I I think with this as well when you look at some of if we do have to and as we look at how we're portioning up and all that yes we we talked about two distinct phases two distinct borrowings we can kind of bring the bring guys we talk about that a little bit more as what that structure looks like but truly while we are looking at the construction part of the new of the new wing which is phase one. We know there are projects that are of substantial amounts of money that we need to do and we need to do along the way and that will bring down the total cost of construction in need.

109So if we start while we're doing the phasing of the new building and design and all that if we looked at okay the roof project here or the boilers or things like that that we could do over the summer and and working utilizing those summers as well before we get into the guts of revamping the whole the the high school. Those big mechanical projects which can be done in schools over time and off times of schools will be beneficial not only to the overall cost of the project but then also in the funding mechanism that we're using because we will say and we can put this is what we're doing. This is your tax dollars at work and here's where we're moving towards it. Here's our vision. We're getting our vision ready. As long as

110we are working all towards that plan of the master plan of the document, we we know that we would do that. So, those are things that we can definitely address sooner rather than later, which we may have to do that. Um, I don't think anyone sat here thought we would have open the meeting with a conversation about a light pole that fell. Um, but we did and that's a newer item that's there. So, looking at kind of where we are, um, having money in a permanent improvement fund will never not go unused. And I think that's something to say, but yet making sure we have enough to capture our operating expenses and pull us out of the hole that we are going into by choosing this funding mechanism with deficit spending is also it's not

111that we're going to get this and be flushed with cash. We're still we have still counted on being lean and and continuing to be leaning to operate fiscally responsible. This is the one that answers all of them. >> Okay. So, as far as the current permit improvement, Larry, we're generating just shy of what? 3 million a year. >> About 2.7. >> 2.7. All right. And then when the bonds sold, they came in favorably. So, the amount of money that's coming out for debt >> just a little over a million like a million 20,000 I think it is. >> Yep. Remember, >> a million two. >> Yeah. >> So, not a million million. 20,000. >> Oh, 20,000. >> Not that. >> Okay. So say a million. So that leaves 1.7 million or so for other things

112as it stands right now. >> I just want to have that figure in my head. >> And there's there's there's no question it's tightens things up uh for sure when those debt payments for that 15 million begin. Um but that, you know, I feel a lot less stressed about that PI fund if we're renovating this high school and building a new addition. I feel a lot less comfortable about our PI funds if we're still patching this building together for the next 10 years. I'll say I'll tell you that that scares me. >> I just want to give a chance. I know you had some other things that you wanted to bring. >> So I was asked about the ELP program and what that is. So just to provide everyone kind of where that is. That's

113part of the OFCC program um and the schools facilities program. It stands for expedited local partnership program. We've built our two new elementary schools as a part of that EL program. It allows school districts that are not yet eligible for state funding. Um under the CFAP or the classroom facility assistance program to move forward on a plan um we can construct um a specific discrete portion of the master plan using local resource which are the two elementary schools. We had to have a plan approved. We did that. We do have to build to the design level standards. Um, and once we become eligible, the money is applied as a credit towards the local sheriff of any further programming. They just changed some of that language specifically to say it is now a credit towards what

114is allowable in the design manual and that is it. So, it will be less than the total cost. So, if we built a total cost that was a was a $100 million project, I'm just using math because it's getting late. So, it was a $100 million project and we were eligible for 15%, we would say, hey, we'd get $15 million. However, if of that we had some local initiatives or things that weren't built into a design project, we'd have to take those out and so we may only be getting $10 million because say, now I made the math hurry again, but say it was only 90 million was actually part of the plan. So part of those come out of what's in the design manual and they have tightened that up. They also as part

115of this put a accelerated aging facilities plan and I was really excited about that because I was like, "Oh, let me look at this one." Well, they it's 100 years. So we are in 24 years we can apply for that. Um but that is one where they would fund 40% of a renovation project for a district. So we're not so again we sit in perpetuity. The other part of where we're at in the L program is your name has to come up on a list. We were 10 years out 10 years ago. Um and we're still about 10 years out now. Um so we are five and it's a it's the 5-year average right now. We're 518 out of 609 districts. So, the number of districts has shrunk, which is always a good. So, we're

116getting closer on that end. Um, in fiscal year 26, we were actually 509 uh based on the cup report. So, that estimates an 86% local share in any OFCC project. When you're looking at high school projects and the design manual and an EL project, you're looking at it to get to the design manual plus the locally funded initiatives that our community wants, you're looking at a 15 to 20% raise over what the what a project initiative would come through. So is at some point in building a high school their question is is the juice worth a squeeze? And sometimes and in high schools especially as you look at auditoriums don't count. They build caftoriiums. Uh second gymnasiums they don't build um which we would need a second. >> They only build small gymnasiums as well

117>> and it's small and they and so those local funds that you raise become a little bit more challenging to what you can and again if they're not going to rebate us for any of those other things. Yes, they'll give us money back, but is the money that we are spending into it more than what what comes back? >> The the other piece is the OF LFCC based on their own evaluation of the facility would not >> they wouldn't fund a renovation of that building. So, >> so it would be interesting though like how much do does you know OSBA, OASBO, school districts in general advocate to our legislators who are out there to ask them to change the laws regarding payback and asking them, hey, you owe me $4 million on a project I

118did in 2017. How about you Annie up because you're giving away all this money and you've got all this excess revenue in your rainy day fund now because you're collecting extra revenue and it annoys me because we don't do that. Nobody advocates for these things and we got money sitting out there. We have money sitting out there from our last project. >> We do. >> And nobody says, "Hey legislator, why don't you propose some bill?" Well, >> you're too busy writing the success seat. Well, here we go. But I I think the other part in really looking at kind of the capital bill and we had some conversations that's in part of a partnership tour um about how we can get into this capital bill for some other opportunities. So, we've we've talked about what

119that looks like and what those people like and that's that's a partnership program that's not a part of rebuilding this, but when we do this project, can we bring other partners involved? And we had a really really productive meeting with like your college about what that looks like. Um, and who else to bring to the table? So, like your like your college needs space. Um, they're they're landlocked. We've got space. Let's talk. Um, and let's let's have some of those conversations. And we started a great productive. We'll have some followup. Um, and when we bring more people to the table to really start to look at at the next capital bill, do we put a significant ask on for a one-time that's for a project that is really outside the box? We've got some we're

120spinning around some great ideas. And I think that that continuous spirit of um of of us combined with Lake Erie combined with Auburn and even bringing in some other local townships to all come together for something that the whole community wants. That's the goal of of some of these, but that's for a later date. >> I I think went back to what Belinda was saying, like I get your frustration like right like we decided to invest in our district. We got our community to invest in our district. There is a guarantee of funds back. I can't help that these other schools aren't doing that. So, give us our money back. Like, I get it. >> I I would almost argue we were forced to. >> And I think I think we were forced to. And

121I think we're at the same point now where we're forced to again. Like we did everything that they said. We followed the rules. We did it all. Like we jumped through all the silly hoops and whatever. And I know what like >> that the EL program in general is starting to lose its novelty and popularity because of the very circumstance about which you're speaking. Promises made and then it's simply kicking the can down the road. >> They have money. >> So So again, I think it's something as a district. I don't know that that >> part. But I agree with you. like is there more that we even as a district can do or >> you know what and not just you I'm not saying the superintendent treasure only you the board members too >>

122all you need is a like a few legislators to propose a piece of legislation it's not that complicated so >> so I I think getting them to listen to us at all is always a good thing and I think we've had some of those conversations as we continue on and getting to the table with the people are something we've really made an effort to and will continue Um so looking at where we are with timelines because timeline is a question. Um you know November 26th the issue passes in January 27th we start to assess the tax. Um fiscal year 27 we would see approximately an estimated 800,000. Um again whatever that split would be that would be split amongst the two um funds. In 28 we're looking at 9.6 million. Again split that's starting to

123dig us out of our deficit spending. And then in 29 employee collect we're thinking about 14.5 and that's adjusting with um some of that inflation and all of that. I think that's where we would see it. Again they would split again if we went with the 8020 or that would not 20% of 14 million would not cover the note on the cops. Uh it would be two borrowings but we would have to put more from a general fund but it would be definitely one that would secure to say we are invested in these projects. >> What is what's what is the percentage? It's >> about 40%. by the time >> I I think it needs to be a 6040 >> 6040 >> once we're at full collection and I would put it 60/40 right now

124except because of the slowness and the >> buildup of the collection we can't do it otherwise I'd lock it in at 6040 and feel comfortable with it but it's those first three years that first two years >> you're not going to you're going to have a debt >> well it depends on when we >> you're not going to have a debt payment until after you sell and you're not going to sell until closer to >> but but what true but if we pass in November and then we start engaging our architects the the fees begin >> not huge fees at initially >> if you would also bank it >> yeah just because it's in there doesn't mean it has to >> we'll put we'll invest it all just like we're doing with the 15 million

125Mike did a great job Mike set up a um Star Ohio account for us and we'll earn as much interest as we and it's not subject to arbitrage. So, we'll we're going to make money off our $15 million insurance. We'll do the same with the additional cops. >> I I would be inclined to have us do the allocation as close as as close as we need to have it. What it makes sense to do since it's only on the resolution and not on the ballot language, which makes it a little easier. It would make sense to have a resolution that spells out year one, year two, and year three. >> I think I think for me anyway, I would want to see like how does that how does that pan out with your payment structures?

126I I want I want to match. which I want us to be whole when it comes time to doing bond paint. >> My my concern with that and this is this is a legitimate concern is yes it's 6040 as of today but as we that cops payment is going to stay steady. So that 40% true is going to be it's going to be less of the 40 by the time we're done as it grows. So >> because the cops payment is a consistent >> well and so is an income tax pretty much. the income tax is going to grow 2% a year. >> So, or 1% 1 to two or even more. But >> we we've we've layered in moderate aggressively to this show. >> Yep. >> This is what he's talking about. >> I

127mean, well, then over time, if it's, you know, 65 45, what whatever it is, >> I agree. I get what you're saying. I agree with you. One of my concerns and I asked Dan about it one time was how do we make sure that another board doesn't come in after we promised the community something. So I'm glad I I don't know that you and I were talking that same language. So I'm glad we're having more discussion and I understand about that a while back. Um I think they found a solution and now you're saying let's just get it as close as possible. We just make that even more solid. >> So if we're looking at a at a minimum like so on average so so it's a $6 million payment. It does raise a little

128bit here. But I think if we look to structure this so we're looking at for can I guess that's back to the the gurus of syllables. Can we structure this so that it fits so we can do like a 6040 where we're paying the cops and as the cops rises and that payment rises so it rises with our projected >> or if it just comes out to be less. I don't I don't care if it's 7030. If I'm going to collect and do 30% now and bank it, I'm going to eat some of that up later. I just want to make sure that we are not selling ourselves short. >> I get it. Just just rem, you know, the other thing at least that's weighing on my mind is if we're going to air, I'm

129going to heir on not enough money in the PI account. Why? because we can always transfer >> versus ering on putting too much money in the PI account and PI's building and we can't pay our teachers >> scenario in 5 years there's a refinance opportunity and it reduces our debt service drastically then we just got a bunch of money in PI. >> Yeah. So, so I guess a question I have Dan and you may not be able to answer this off the top of your head would to I understand exactly what Belinda is saying. Could a board pass a resolution that would say for for the for you know for X number of years 40% 35% what whatever number makes sense that's what goes into the PI as a resolution would that be binding to

130the board as they receive those dollars. So separate from >> separate from this transaction >> just a separate >> resolution >> board answer is yes but I'd like to confirm that >> or even policy creative policy >> but then I also have I have a I have an issue with I can't see those years sorry >> which one 58 and 59 >> yeah again I will see yeah I will be dead however ever in those years then I have a I I like philosophically have an issue with the fact that we are now collecting money that I don't need for a facility >> in 20859 Riverview and Parkside will be 40 years old. >> Oh, but they're built differently and there'll be >> they'll be need well and that's the other part. I mean, so

131having money we have still building problem. >> I get it. But again, when I go back and I say this is why I believe that that splitting the issues is is I'm only collecting what I need for that facility for the years that I need it and then when it's done that portion is done and it's it's done. It's gone. It's over and I'm just collecting the income tax. >> We'll create an scholarship. I I think to set a to set a term of 30 years with a 30-year expert expert. >> I mean, that's >> I don't know whether we're going to get the >> Well, I get again, I'm not saying I don't want I would not want to have have an income tax for operations expire. >> Again, I think there's opportunity to

132go back. Our attorneys have told us that there is an opportunity if we if something changes, you know, the state of Ohio begins to fund public schools. >> 30 years from we start collecting back the EL program. >> If you if you decide to you don't have the opportunity to change the original term, you're going to collect 1% income tax. >> So you can't say, "Well, now I really only need 75 because the building's done. So now I only need No, you're going to have to >> you're going to have to pass a new one at Right. >> I think Mr. C has something to contribute. I'm sorry. I just want to make sure everybody here is Dan and I did research. There may not be any income tax levy that's okay. Um the law

133is we're talking about two sentences of revised. It says if the tax is to be levied for current expenses and permanent improvements, the resolution shall portion the annual rate of the tax. That seems good. Okay, we can aortion an initial resolution. Then it says the aortionment may be the same or different for each year the tax is levied but the respective portions of the rate actually levied each year for current expenses and for permanent improvement shall be limited by the aortionment which >> so I got to say in other words if you're tied up with a certain payment for the improvements you have to kind of meet that you Well, isn't that saying if hearing it for like the fourth time now, isn't that saying >> you can set it at just for sake of

134exam, you can set it at 8020 or you could change it year by year, but whatever you do, you have to aortion it and abide by that aortionment. That's what it's saying. Yes. For obligate you to meet your so make your I just want to make sure. Go ahead and finish what you're saying. >> No, I think I think that I think that's what it's saying. >> I understand what you're saying. So if you say it's 7030 or 8020, it's 8020. I can't go higher than 20. I know. >> No, you can go higher than 20 because you can always transfer money into the PI. >> We would we would want to have to >> talk about this a little bit because it's a new area, but that that may be that's what it may

135indicate that each year you could change it potentially. However, this, you know, the spirit would be that you would try to have a percentage that you're not changing it because someone might come back and look at what the board initially passed and say, well, you intended it to be for um, you know, sure, 80% for, let's just say for 80% for PI, and then you come back after the levy is approved, they move it to 85% % for current expenses. And someone might say, well, that's not what we >> sure >> voted on. True. >> It's true. >> You want to You always want to respect the intentions >> that you all set out. Well, that's why I feel like you don't want to reduce the 20 to 15, but the 20 to 30 makes

136seems fun, but you know, I mean, because >> You can always add more more, but you don't want to take away from the guy. So, we're going to what the treasur is mentioning is if you're picking a number for the PI um that's lower, you can always move money from current expenses to the PI. The idea being that you're creating an amount for the PI that like you just said with the issue that came up this past week, there's always PI issues. You're never going to run out of money, but you can't move it from PI to current expenses. >> And then in 30 years, whatever year That was >> Yeah, in 2050 we'll we will have >> an excess of revenue in >> excess of revenue in PI which we will have I'm sure

137>> somebody will have to figure out >> there will still be projects to do. There will be buses to purchase. >> Well, that's also assuming that along the way >> Nothing else happens and our expenses don't escalate at a speed at which we are not currently predicting etc etc etc. a lot of >> so many chunk of land. >> Well, we're guessing 30 years down the road. You know, that's those are all those are all factors that are all part of it. I think this is one that we are >> we are being conservative and we are definitely making we are addressing the numbers the two highest needs on our >> our surveys and all of that. about. >> So, um >> into the timelines of the project to really look >> so November 26,

138we are successful in the ballot. In January 27th, we start to assess the taxes. Again, we start we don't fully collect until fiscal year 29. um as a part of this that gives us some time which is this is a little bit different of a project than a true bond issue where we are still working and developing with ourus and getting our partnerships together as we start to have this we are there's a lot of excitement to it but there's a lot of whatifs as well um and so really in having those discussions and what this looks like um it gives us time to also look for alternate alternate funding sources to to to try to get some partnerships here on the capital project um budget to try to make sure that we work with

139others to utilize what we have um to get a part of theirs. The other ones that are there that aren't um that we've talked about a lot and the questions come up is a bus garage. Um and we're having conversations as to where we're going in terms of shared services and all that. That that garage that's out there, where what does it look like and what does it do? The the other part that's needed, um, obviously we've talked about the EL money. If that EL money were ever to be delivered, that would go directly to um funding the bus garage portion of it. The additional turf field, that estimate right now is about a million two um to to put that in. That's part of the conversations that we are having um with our partners

140in the area to talk about what that could look like, who could use it. Obviously, our we allow our community groups to use it, but we have other we have other um organizations that have a need for this um and have some revenue. It can be a revenue source as well behind it. So, what that can look like uh the maintenance facility um we know we need one. We don't have the answer for that and the cost to that at this point. Um but that is something that we know is not something we want to ignore by any means at all and it's something that as we you know, in 2059, we'll have plenty of money for it, but I think we're going to need it before then. So, really looking at what that looks

141like and how that purpose is and where we are. I think we still continue to have those explorations that even includes leveraging some of the facilities we have and as you said, there's a master plan out there. We have a building that's sitting in contour that has a pretty high value to it. So, that that could probably be a portion of something that we're doing and having the discussion. I know it is. That's all that um one of the questions came about repurposing Melidge. So Buckeye Buckeye is complete. We have Melidge. This is to repurpose Melidge into a into a school for students um you know for for special needs kind of a magnet school for that. That's not a lot of an investment up front from our standpoint really and truly we have we

142have the people who come there. Um but in truly in terms of what that is the electrical in Melidge is upgraded. Um and on that first floor we would have success just to put HBAC in. We've had really great success putting these mini splits in. Um they are they are feasible. They are economically on the electric and we can run through that and have that work for those individual individual rooms along the way from that first floor. As the program builds we continue building has the great gym which is does have an air conditioning facility. It also has the um library as well which is air conditioning. From a kitchen standpoint, a school like that is very small. So, we wouldn't need a kitchen. We would probably do a service, a food service at Buck

143Iron and Shove it, >> um, which would be a satellite type kitchen. So, just be warming and that would be that would be very sufficient for for that. And then, um, central administrative office space. We have money built into this project to address um the central office whether it's building on to the house that's over there or whether it's re revvisioning and actually remodeling a little bit the current media center into the central office with and that that is full disclosure that's my preferred because that takes the John R space that the actual John R cafeteria and turns that into a professional development center um and a large space for um large group meetings professional development anything else that is separate from everything else. It still keeps us rather close to the district to the

144high school, but yet we are not middle. We're at our own end. Those spaces are new enough and it's it's a pretty um doable convert. So, we are looking. >> What's that? >> We forgot the Lamouth parking. >> We did forget Lamouth parking. I did forget that. That's >> and then and then I forgot one in my in my list. So, Mammouth, I think we estimated it over a million for the new parking lot to do all that, but that's that's our last. >> Yeah, that was so there was that that probably should go on that list. And then the last thing, like I was just thinking, we're talking about Limouth. I'm looking at Lilmouth and >> there was a cost to get that facility where it needed to be to repurpose it as a

145as an elementary building. And there was a pretty >> big cost to that when we in the facilities plan is in the current facilities plan is approved is a 56 building. Um, so it does, >> okay, so >> it does shift it. It's not the elementary as much. So there's still cost to put a chiller in to make sure that it's their window roof. There there will be some costs to that. >> And I I think I think from a facilities committee perspective, we need to get some costs around this. So like, you know what it looks like? I mean, we're going to do all these if we if the plan is to do all of all of what is proposed, what is all how is all that going to fit in there? or what

146would the timelines be for these things and how would that fit in or would we just be saying don't know some year we can't do that because these things I think need to get done >> but I think we can because we don't know when money is going to come in from the tips or if it is right but that could be additional money that then we could pick the project so to your point what's the price right so we could pick the project that we could complete then right or >> um >> so I I think that's to the >> but I don't know if we definitely really just want to say, well, we'll just put off a bus garage until perhaps there's funding or a maintenance facility. Our maintenance facility is >> I

147I so >> we have some needs >> in both cases. I I I'm not disagreeing to either one of those. I think the bus garage and the issue with the bus garage is solved in the revisioning of the high school and the drawings of the high school because the real >> now obviously there is a facility of the bus garage concerned with the lift and the bus wash and all of that. Yes, that but the but the other problem with the bus garage was the physical location and the buses and the student traffic and all of that in the morning kind of being coincided together that can be solved in this part of it because of the way you put in the drives and all that going around the school utilizing the front of the

148school for drop off separating that at at the high school. I think that does solve part of that issue. The other part of that issue and the longer term part of that issue is what do we do for a bus garage and is it fitting on the campus? Do we start looking at other places? And I think we start looking at out of the box facilities. Is there a large warehouse that we can get our muscles inside and all that? And we start to have those conversations and look at those and what those look like as well down the road as as a part of all of this. I I know we can't count on the tiff money. We just said that we can't count on all that. But when we start to put some

149of these plans together, the immediate need and the immediate feedback from the community and everything is you have to address the high school. That is what we hear and yes, we have all these other things as that tiff money comes in and that development is going to happen to some level and I don't know if we're going to get to all of it but if we ever did as that tiff money comes in that's not calculated in a private forecast. It's not calculating out that does help offset part of that. It doesn't offset it all and then we can look at putting part of it there. We also have the ultimate coming all of those that that are a part of it. >> When I when I look at this list, we've discussed wants versus

150needs. There's things that are wants that are things that are needs and then there are things that are pressing needs. And I think what I'm hearing you say is, and I think we all agree, the high school is a pressing need. In my opinion, these five items and the addition of Mel's parking lot is in need, but maybe we put a future date on some of these and not included in the initial project of the high school and junior high. You know, in my view, based on 1% income tax, again, I don't disagree that these additional projects are valid and real and needed, but we can't go above 120 million. Well, and I guess that's my >> my question is that if we are not including these things in estimates of what we're going to

151have to pay for in the future and 1% because we can't go higher than that isn't going to be enough. Where is I'm I'm just concerned where are you going to get the funding and are we going to have to go back and ask for additional dollars later until 2059 when I have extra money? >> Do you know what I'm saying? I think the I think the real true honest answer is we can do the best we can with some funds that we're not confident enough to even build in our 5-year forecast and hope they come in and begin to list what is our next level of priority. But the reality is we just simply cannot get everything we want. >> Yeah, I think and I think this list is ever growing. So even even

152if we were able to fulfill all five of these six if you include Mil's parking lot eventually the fieldhouse is going to be on here. >> Sure house >> okay great it's already included but my point is there's always going to be a short list of of other projects and I I don't I just don't see the reality of it being included in one >> we can try to pinpoint when we're going to do them but how many things from 10 years ago that we tried to pinpoint never got done. I I also would say to that point when you look at where we're at, if we solely dedicating a trunch of money to the PI from the start and from the initiation of it where we had plan to do other things that does

153kind of start to build up a PI. It slowly keeps us in our deficit. We need to be careful that we're not, you know, over deficit spending, but we still have a million dollar payment that is going up. we're currently taking out of PI 30% kind of reflect that it's going to capital expenses where that money comes from. That's the return. So, we have some some leverage there to build up to earn to gain interest um to invest and then to reinvest that money back out into other projects that are there as we start to build. And if we've done a respectable job at being creative with money, moving money, making our money work for us as much as we can, um, and then moving forward to the next step. I think we need I

154think nothing in this is going to change with that. That is still the point of all of this is we are still going to do all but having that that large cash reserve is really nice because that earns money for us and that works for us as well. And I think that's the other part that you know having all of it that's there and being prudent with it as we always are does does help us. And I think also we see you know and we can't predict all of this but we have a we have a veteran staff um in you know three to five years. >> You stumbled over that. I'd like to know what other words you were a lot but >> surely three to five year we're going to see a large

155turnover in staff and assuming we can we can bring in some some younger teachers um that saves us um in in that as well and there's some savings that are there. >> What does the is is it still 30% cash reserve? >> Yeah. On what you can carry? >> Yes. So, what does what does collecting all of this income tax do to our property tax collections when we have all this dollars sitting there? >> You can pull it out of the general and put it into other >> Well, the the the reality is we're not going to you'll see in the five-year forecast. you're going to be disappointed that the 1% doesn't it's not the panacea that >> well not for the not for the foreseeable future but once it starts to collect in full

156>> well even when it collects in full >> is that why you're leaning 80% >> because I'm worried and plus we're digging out of a $4 million hole >> okay and then and then my last question is so what happens when it's not enough to fund that building that we decided to fund that may come in at over what you're thinking because costs are going to rise by the time you go to put up phase two. we built in a 5% annual contingency for for inflation. Um that is there and as that phase two goes I think the other part is and as I said from the beginning a lot if we can address a lot of the high dollar items early and get that while school is in session to some extent we can

157avoid some of that projected inflation. So, if we can get a plan that's going to address the HVAC or or the structure to that, the roof, the windows, um, that we know we're going to need to replace, we can get those as much earlier rather than later and lock in that pricing and get that bonding, get that money to met, that also impacts and that will keep our cost level down. So, it is a it isn't a one we're going to do A and then we're going to do B. We need to do both at the same time and work through it. But it's it's really true how those funds work together and working with the design professionals and the team to make sure that we are doing we're not neglecting one as we do

158the other. Um well one two of the things that I think are high priority and I'm basing this off of what um Mr. Alles has said in the past that he has serious concerns about the roof on Riverside um in the leaks. I I don't know how that's fair. We haven't I I haven't had an update, but uh you might have talked about it in um you know business or building in crimes. Uh the other thing is the bus garage, three small stalls, no lift. It it's so antiquated. I I thought you were you talking to Pinsville City or something? >> We have had conversations with Pinsville City about using their garage for significant fixes that required required a lift. They're open to some sort of >> they're using our gas pump. >> Um >>

159so we're we're partnering. >> We're we're having some conversations. I think a long-term fix for now. Um you know I that is not right now what we see in the future. I think I would say the safe thing is to make sure that we keep our bus drives where it is to this point and our our mechanics do understand they they work wonders but it's also to look at alternate options and to watch what's happening with with the state and with all our districts. There hasn't been a day when I'm with another superintendent and we're not talking about how can we combine, how can we share, how can we look at services. >> Well, that's another thing. So, so go to the capital budget and ask them to help part of it. >> The commissioners

160had talked about >> lake train running >> and lake train running transportation. We looked at lake train to do a single route. It it was significantly more expensive than it was for us to do. such a how about a county bus facility. So we have So that's Lake Train and Lake Tran talk about Lake Train is a school but but so things like that are things that we have kind of had some of those conversations about but it's it's been really as fruitful as >> Pel City has a bucket truck. We sometimes run a lift now. We just call Penguin City and say hey we borrow your bucket truck. We'll fill it with gas. So we borrow their bucket truck and we fill what we need to do and then we can bring it back

161to them. And so having those kind of conversation are really been beneficial. And this is, >> you know, we can't go out and blast that out and say, "Oh, we borrowed a bucket truck on so many ways." And, you know, like those savings are very they're limited to some extent, but they're there are significant. And I think that's a they add up, but they add up. >> Now, the um it was it just transportation or was it transportation slash maintenance facility for Shardan? >> I believe Chardan just did transportation, but I check. The only reason I ask is that's a fresh price. We, you know, also had that uh structure behind um you know the Memorial Junior High in Menor um that looked like it was not difficult to like not super expensive to build

162um the way they constructed it. Um and it had a bus wash and everything. I just wondered uh what the um possibility of combining the bus garage and maintenance facility, >> you know, in the way it was would be designed in location. >> Interestingly, I just passed that facility this morning >> in Shardan and I think it's combined because it's the title was not just transportation, >> it operations. >> It was operations as well. And >> yeah, >> it was just interesting to me. I was like, I've never seen those. So again, something really great that we can look into. I think the idea though is that those are other projects not built into the immediate um project that is up. So if I hear correctly, I think one of the things we really would

163need is uh what's what's a split and how that how does that work? What's it look like in the resolution? So we have that commitment to the public that we are guaranteeing funds for facilities, right? Um I think modeled out kind of what that looks like over the next few years. You might be doing something like that anyways with the fund, but um we'll >> find out what we can do and then go from there. But we'll have it by Tuesday. >> So we'll have a hold on the agenda for the resolution and probably have a document >> closer. >> Yeah, it might be. >> Yeah. >> Might get it a little later. Depends on how fast. Superman works over here. >> Would would it be okay or inappropriate for us to have at least

164visibility to the language of what would be on the ballot in advance of the meeting, not to discuss it, but to at least >> on the ballot, >> what ballot language would look like. >> Yes. Yes. >> We will share every as soon as we get whatever we have done, we will share it immediately. It just may not be the agenda goes out of mission because Friday is a holiday. Um, we will not necessarily have it for 48 hours. >> We'll have to make a motion to add. Yeah, >> we'll put a hold. >> Okay. >> Isn't that part of the resolution? Is the ballot language? >> No. No, it's prescribed in the 57. >> Is that separate or we don't even have to do that? >> We don't write the ballot language. I mean,

165>> I mean, we may provide it won't be in the resolution. Um, we will probably have a draft um that we'll provide to you. I'm just going to copy Dan and I are going to copy and paste it in the revised code and so you can see what it looks like. You just what you have is you fill in the percentage the 1% you fill in the your name the name of the school district and you fill in the it continuing or for a period of years and the purpose you know it's current expenses and current improvements. You can't specify anything else beyond that. >> Like it's like going to a ice cream parlor with four choices. >> That's not fun. our only public left, but we will call for it. That brings us to

166public participation. Anyone wishing to Right. No. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right. >> Anyone wishing to address the board of education will be recognized by the board president. Speakers are requested to speak from the podium. Identify themselves in their topic. Comments are limited to three minutes. >> Do we have any >> I I just full view of it. It was I don't know that anyone else can see that there's not >> no public comment. All right. Thank you. >> Hey, everybody in this room could be considered public if somebody wanted to speak. >> Mike in the back. >> I like to speak. >> I'LL TAKE THIS WHOLE. >> So that brings us to our next meeting announcements. We have curriculum and programming committee meeting June 17th at 7 tomorrow morning >> 7:30 a.m. Finance and

167Personnel Committee meeting June 18th at 7 a.m. Buildings and Grounds Committee meeting June 23rd at 7:30 a.m. Board of Education work session June 23rd at 5:00 p.m. And the Board of Education regular meeting June 23rd at 6:00 p.m. >> And all will be held in this room. Correct. >> Yes. >> All right. That makes a motion to adjourn at 8:22 p.m. >> Thank you. And can we call the role, please, >> Mrs. Mr. Demenski >> I >> Mrs. Grassy >> I >> Mr. Odino >> hi >> Miss Brewster >> I >> Mr. Buyers I >> motion carries 50. >> Thank you. >> Our records been 10 10:30 lately. Oh, yeah. >> Okay. I got lots of tea right