Board of Education Work Session: Thursday, July 17th, 2025 @ 6pm

001I'm calling to order the on board of education work session for Thursday July 17th 2025. If you could call the role please. >> Mrs. Henners >> Dr. Lefay >> Mr. Rger >> here. Mrs. Hartley >> here. >> Mrs. here. Everyone can stand please for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic which stands one nationice. >> Thank you. >> We need an approval of tonight's agenda for the work session. Mrs. Hers. >> Yes. >> Mr. Reagger, >> Dr. Lefay. >> Mrs. Hartley. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Mass. >> Yes. Thank you. >> All right. So, tonight we're here uh to talk about student safety. Uh and so uh that's kind of a big theme, but we're going to get to the work. So,

002uh Eric Johnson uh is our uh is the board's council uh from West Unheard, and so he's going to kind of kick it off and get conversation going. Great. Hi folks, thanks for having me. >> Thank you for coming. >> So, student safety and student welfare issues is kind of a broad topic. So, I've been asked to really focus on four subtopics, if you will, this evening. Those four sub subtopics being the code of conduct. And when I say the code of conduct in this context, that would be for um for personnel in your uh board policies. So that that'll be the first topic that I'll touch upon. The second topic will be the lure code of conduct. So you might hear me say code of conduct. Code of conduct. If there's any lack of

003clarity to say, Eric, which one are you talking about? The good news for you, spoiler alert, is that actually your code of conduct looks a lot like the lure code of conduct, the state's lure code of conduct, which I think is a really good thing. a lot of policies um do not expressly incorporate the lensure code of conduct, the state one. And so that's an advantage for you from a consistency standpoint. It also makes some things clear that might not otherwise be so clear. Um the third will be a brief overview of FURPA issues. And so the federal law that uh relates to student records, student information to a certain extent and that the fourth topic this evening will be good. >> So House Bill 8. So it's uh oftentimes referred to as the parental

004bill of rights. House Bill 8 passed um within the last year. It had two two main components. one of the main components we will not talk about this evening which is what's referred to as RTRI release time for religious instruction. That one's been put to the side for this discussion and we'll talk about what House Bill 8 provides in way of providing parental rights in uh student health services as well as uh with regard to the materials that you put into uh circulation for instruction purposes. So those are the four main topics. Uh my understanding coming in this evening is that uh we have a few goals that we want to achieve. One is to just give an overview of each of those four areas. Uh obviously open for discussion. I certainly don't want to

005be professorial lecturing up here and I'm going to hit them real overview so that then feel free to ask questions as we move through. So first goal would be to just have that discussion about each one of those four to raise awareness, educate, provide a baseline on those on those four topics. And then I think as we go through, you'll likely hear me provide suggestions on how to uh address these with your personnel, with your community overall. And again, you're probably going to hear me say train. Um, so if you have on your bingo card this evening training as a free space, you might as well just mark it now. Um, as we go through because, you know, I've been doing this for 25 years and I can tell you the past few years, the

006legislation has come quick. Um, it has oftentimes changed a lot of what you guys as boards do. Um, in fact, you'll see things that have been completely flipped in how you need to kind of conduct operations and so there's a lot um and training is one right now where in almost every area and I know it's lawyers get a bad rap for saying you got to train, you got to train, you got to do this, you got to do this. were, you know, kind of task masters on got to read the policy, you got to amend the policy, you got to do all these things and it's a lot. I understand that. Um, but in these areas, I think it's absolutely critical given the importance of the the topics that there's training really across the

007board. So, you you'll hear from me suggestions as to how to approach these issues. Make sure that your folks are educated. And when I say your folks, your personnel really from superintendent all the way down across the organization down to cafeteria down to bus drivers down to non-eing employees. It's important that they understand uh the regulations of the code of conduct. It's important they understand what they can and cannot do on social media. Those sorts of things. So and then number three I think from our goal perspective is coming out of this as a board what you want to see happen and working with administration to say okay this is we think this is important we should roll this out we you know think this is a priority item let's get that training on the

008books let's talk about what that looks like those sorts of uh those sorts of action steps any questions or discussion anything you know you want me to address or correcting what I've said so far. Goal setting from your perspective on these things. >> So if um if you think it might be helpful for us to just really quickly say like what we do because I think all of us currently or have worked for really large organizations. >> So I think some of these issues when it's a workplace issue like we have our own mandatory trainings that we take. So maybe understanding of just a context for where we're coming in because I think there's always that tension of we're locally, you know, in Ohio school boards are locally run. And so while it might be

009a law that then is pushed out to every district, but every district is going to have its own board has its own level of understanding. It has its two executives, but you know, there's the culture of the town and then there's you have people from the private sector stepping into these roles as board members um who sometimes are making the ultimate call. And so their context and understanding I think plays into it. Sometimes there's some tension there. >> Yeah, I'm happy to hear experience wise what what you got. >> Uh I'm an engineering director for a large automotive supplier in the area. So um like you said large organization has lots of trainings and things familiar with that. And I also was a scout leader for nine years. a lot of training and that they're

010required to do and changed many time you know a number of times over that many years now I own that >> um I work for the foundation for firelands which is part of firelands health which is our regional hospital here and I am um development officer so we do uh We have care source learning that we have to like we do every single year that goes over you know HIPPA and all kinds of things like we're going to be talking about public higher education for about 22 years at Ohio State and now fully green. the corporate issues and prevention violence prevention title N I inhouse cyber employment council for a Fortune 500 company uh so we do a lot of uh HR training and um securities compliance um I've also been a volunteer for Catholic

011church um long time so familiar with their um training and background checking professions. >> Great. So yes, a lot of what we'll be talking about, some of those things you'll have heard before and so I will try to do it at a real top level and if you want to drill down then we can absolutely drill down on those things but uh a lot of it will be kind of surface level and then as I said feel free to say wait a minute what about the exceptions to okay and we can get into the exceptions if you really want to do this um okay so I'll start with the code of conduct so as I said your particular code conduct is a little bit different than a number of boards codes of conduct that I

012see it's not necessarily the standard and I think that was done deliberately I think you recently enhanced it um and what I like about your code of conduct is that it specifically builds in the lure code parameters the Ohio lure code for professional educators um that's that code is what governs whether any educator will receive their license uh will maintain their license or if there's going to be discipline as to their license. Um and so a lot of this when we talk about it you'll hear me say okay the district has their code of conduct but then all of the personnel who have licenses through the state educator license would also be governed by the lure code of conduct. And so think of them as kind of two silos. Oftent times if you have something

013that you should not have done. You're playing in both spaces. Um, but this is, you know, from from the standpoint of what you have on the books. Um, and this was just revised recently, I believe in the spring of 2025, looks like last revised February 25th. So, GBC is that policy. I know uh some of you may have your computers up or you might want to refer to it later at some point. I'm not going to obviously read you the policy, but it does lay out um nine expectations standards that track specifically the lender code. Um some of the highlights of those in general fashion, I won't go through all nine, but um professional relationships with students at all times. And so, you know, whether you're in or out of the classroom, whether you are

014on the field, whether you are participating in extracurricular or whether you are completely away from any school connection whatsoever. And that can be on spring break, it can be summer while you're coaching T-ball. Um, these things through the lure code, the Ohio lure code, apply 247 365. And so making sure that folks understand that yes when you have a license just as I have a license sinners has a license has a license we have codes of conduct and you guys probably have licenses too. So you have a code of conduct. I know that at least three of us have a code of conduct that we have to abide by 247 365 whether we are acting in that capacity or not. And so, um, making sure that folks understand, hey, these are things that you need

015to abide by in your capacity because, as you guys know, you know, you go to the supermarket and it's, hey, I know you, you're the board member. And it's even more so for folks who deal with students on a daily basis where you're always that teacher, you're always that bus driver, you're always that coach. Um, and understanding that in each of those roles, what you what you might do outside of your standard hours can still be concern for your own profession as well as the reputation. So, that's the that's the general code of conduct. Um, just hitting a few of those. Obviously, can't engage in criminal activity. Uh, drugs, alcohol, you need to be very careful with obviously interact with drugs, alcohol, and students, those sorts of things. There's a discussion about the handling of

016funds. There is um the catchall. The catchall is the conduct that is unprofessional conduct in general, right? And so every code of conduct uh has that one catchall where we can't anticipate all of the issues that might arise that someone may decide might not be the best thing to do. And so we've got to have this catch. So you may hear just talk about the catch. So it tracks um very clearly and incorporates into your policy which is important the lure code of conduct parameters. Why is that important? It's important because now it is a district issue. It is not just a state issue. The district has said we want our folks to uh abide by all of these principles. We're laying them out. We're putting them on notice to you. We want you to

017know they're there and we want you to abide by them. Um, now it's covered in the district setting. It's covered in the license setting because we don't really have control over what happens at the ler stage. If the state decides that they're going to take somebody's license, then so be it. We don't we don't have a role in that aside from providing information if we are requested to provide information. And so on the district side, you have to deal with the employment perspective as opposed to the license perspective. There are other sections where you will of course run into uh you know for example GE is staff student relations. Um there's a number of things that are set out there that relate to student safety student welfare. the way that we interact with students. Just

018by way of example, staff members shall not make derogatory comments to students regarding the school staff or other students. There's a number of those statements in that staff student relationship as well that really puts a little more meat to the bone after the outline of the the code and there are a variety of others that would come into as far as codes. So that's the general code of conduct staff student relationship. Happy to answer any questions on that issue. So what's important about the having that is making sure that people know it's there and making sure that people are familiar with the contents. And that starts with obviously it starts with central office. It then moves down to your building level administrators, administrators who are responsible for particular areas as well. And then it should

019make its way all the all the way across the organization so that people are on fair notice as to what their expectations are in the room. Um, when you're looking at how you do that, yes, it's easy to say, "Okay, here's your, you know, here's your policy manual, and oh, by the way, here are 400 policies that you need to read through." And and you should. I'm not saying you should. Um, and you know, do you guys have public school works? Okay. And so, public school works is a good a good way to have that tracking. You absolutely should do that. uh folks then have the opportunity to familiarize themselves. Um I am aware that sometimes public school works is not taken as seriously as it perhaps should be and so there are times where

020you see that someone may have just spent 27 seconds on a module as opposed to doing it very thoroughly. Um, and that's where I think training comes into place where you're actually having in-person, hey, just so we're all on the same page, here are the expectations, here's what you need to be aware of. That can be done at building level meetings, that can be done at a district-wide meeting. It depends on, you know, how you'd like to roll those things out. But the code of conduct particularly combined with the lensure code of conduct is one that I tell my clients is an absolute must from my perspective and Dr. has heard me say this. Uh he has sat through I think three, four or five of my it is one it it's kind of my

021personal passion and making sure that folks understand what is in the code of conduct because not all of it is self-explanatory. Um particularly if you are for example a coach, coaches are covered under whether you are also a teacher or not. Coaches are covered under the lure code. And if a coach comes in, and I'll use an example, a personal example. My son plays for an academy soccer team. He's not a high school related soccer team. He is a minor, but his coach is texting him all the time individually. He's the captain of the team, coordinates with the rest of the team. That's okay in the private setting, right? There's not a there's not a code that says, "Hey, you can't do that in private setting." A law that says you can't do that in

022private setting. In the public setting, the Ohio Lure Code and the tip sheets that come along with it very clearly state tip sheet number two if you need to. Do not text individual students. Period. That's how plainly stated it is. That's verbatim. There's not, hey, here are the exceptions for it. If that person's your babysitter, if that person is a niece, nephew. Now, those things will be considered when they make it to the to the state level to be reviewed, but folks, those are things that aren't necessarily Everybody says, "Oh, this stuff's all common sense." Not necessarily. Um, not with how things operate. And and social media is another one. So, I'm kind of moving into the lure code overall. Um, the lure code was initially adopted back in 2008. Uh the lure code came

023about because of situations where you would have an educator engage in misconduct, say on the east side of the state. Um I live in Giaga County, I'll say Giaga County, and you know, maybe something wasn't so good about what went down, so to speak. Maybe there was an issue and the decision was made. Well, I'll tell you what, you just resigned. Go away. Don't come back around here and go somewhere else, right? and we'll accept your resignation and we'll be done. Okay. and then something happens in Lucas County and it's like well wait a minute something happens similar over in so the state put into place a tracking system in essence the lener code is a tracking system that requires certain reports to be made on a mandatory basis on educators and then the other

024reports are discretionary reports and so there are certain mandatory reports that would have to be made the mandatory reports include resigned under threat of termination, resigned under threat of non-renewal, resigned in the course of an investigation related to conduct unbecoming under the lure code. Um there's a new mandatory uh they just added this one, a new mandatory report for removal of a substitute teacher from the available list if it related to conduct. So um so are there certain mandatory and these are serious I mean there are criminal consequences for u for a superintendent particularly who doesn't report those those situations to the state >> this isn't just for coaching you're talking across >> no this is for anyone who has an so the lure code applies to teachers administrators it can apply to pair of

025professionals who have educator licenses through the state um it applies to coaches the one the ones that people look and kind of do the you are old remember the RCA dog the RCA dog held head tilt is coaches like coaches are the ones where it seems that folks forget about and so um that's another one where again James has heard me say this at almost all of my presentations because I always fit in license code regardless of the topic I'm there for is you have to get across the entire organization on the license issues particularly fitting in the social media discussion. Um the social media was uh the ninth principle. So back in 2008, there were eight initial principles. The only one that's been added since 2008 is appropriate use of social media. And there

026are some scary things in there. Um it talks about negligence in the way that folks handle social media. It doesn't negligence is an oops. It's a it's a boo boo. It's a mistake. It's not, you know, there wasn't recklessness, there wasn't intent, there wasn't malice in it. It's, hey, I just made a mistake and I accidentally did this. Um, and that includes, you know, protecting your own personal electronic device. So, if you leave your personal electronic device, it opens it up. I don't know how many of you have iPhones, but if I camera function, I think I could probably get to most of your cameras and then take in appropriate pictures and then um so those sorts of things where it's just you didn't protect your personal device, you didn't protect your laptop computer, reporting

027of cyber bullying, even if you're off the clock, you're not it's not during school hours. And then there is the one about posting posting inappropriate material that may relate to uh sex, disability, race, ethnicity, origin which and also it includes sexual orientation um which as you guys know politics right now are laden with that. So talking to folks about hey you got to be really careful about what you post. You don't give up your rights as a citizen to first amendment speech but you got to be really careful about your That's something that really I think has to go across the entire organization in in that. So lure code again just recap 247 365 anyone who has a license issued by the state. Again bus driver license is not covered by that. It's an educator

028specific license including coaches. Those nine principles have actually tracked your GCP. That's where you've got your your nine principles from. So if you actually just read the GBC then you're pretty good from a lenture code perspective. Um there are again just to recap mandatory reports. The other reports are discretionary. Um it is often in everyone's best interest to make those discretionary reports. It's tough for me to advise not to make discretionary reports but there are some things that fall short of that as well. So it is situational. It is case by case. There are times but the mandatory reports are ones that absolutely >> I had a question on uh for the district level of that maybe um and probably for like James and handling issues. Uh what what's like the threshold that they would

029have to say start an investigation on I mean is it someone has to make a written claim, verbal claim? Is it gossip? Is it you know what I mean? like is there some threshold of >> when we he or us have to? >> So investigations are and I I always do this for investigations because an investigation could be a quick question to confirm that something happened and an investigation could be you know when you get into the more complicated or ones that are scripted by law. So for example Title N sort of investigation. Um, it's really it really depends on on the situation and so I you're going to it's a typical lawyer cop out answer, right? But, you know, if someone comes to you and says, "Here's what's happened to me. I'm making this

030report, you know, and it's a serious report. Uh, you know, I've been discriminated against because of the following, then it doesn't have to necessarily be in writing to trigger an obligation to start an investigation." Now the ones that you know oftentimes are difficult to deal with are the anonymous you know statements that come in you can't just necessarily just say well it's completely anonymous so the fact that it claims X Y and Z you can't just say it's anonymous and so it doesn't matter what's in the content it always comes down to a contentbased decision on what is in the content of the report and then you have to look to there might be some things that you have to do to make a decision as to whether it warrants an investigation. Right? So first

031step in an investigation is deciding whether there needs to be an investigation depending on what the content is and then where you go from there. >> So who ultimately makes the decision on whether there needs to be an investigation? Is that the superintendent? Is that the building principal? >> Yeah, I mean it it Like if it's a hey, he's he stole my pet. >> Right. >> Then that's probably not coming. >> Correct. >> If it falls within and remember you have policies that lay out specifically for sexual harassment, unlawful harassment, so it's, you know, race discrimination, disability discrimination, that's also unlawful harassment. Um, you have the, uh, you bullying investigations that have to occur and those are scripted by law. And this is when you get into this, these can be very dynamic processes, right?

032And so it may start as a bullying investigation, but then as the student says, well, here's what was said specifically, it may then move into also a race discrimination claim, a disability discrimination claim, or a title N. And so, you know, I told you I was going to say training a lot, right? That's something that administrators need to understand which is okay. Yeah. Because everybody gets and and same thing, right? It's human nature. I'm I'm in my Okay, this is a bullying investigation. Focused in bullying, bullying, bullying, bullying. I'm following policy, checking off what I need to do, being, you know, conscientious about following protocols. Well, wait a minute. Didn't the person also say that this was said to them? This happened to them. Okay, now I got to go over here um and think

033about how that plays into that. And so you need to understand that investigations and this is this is another one that you've sat through with me is investigations are dynamic investigations you have to there's a lot that goes into investigations and to so to say like again depending on the the level that depending on the specific allegations that are made and that's why it's so important at the outset to try to find out okay what are the specific allegations from the individual. That's why your policies tend to encourage that it's made in writing so that you have the story at the start so you can process it accordingly. You know where to put it into a policy perspective. You also know specifically what you need to follow up on. And then if do more along

034the way again you're going to hear me talk about too is absolutely critical. Can you do you mind going over again? I got some but not all. Which um like circumstances are mandatory for the district to report to OD? >> Yeah. So there's very few that are absolutely mandatory. >> Okay. >> So the mandatory ones are resign under threat of termination. basically any separation under a threat of investigation that relates to conduct unbecoming. Um, so if the person is threatened to be non-renewed and there's an investigation going on, that would be covered. If the person retires under threat of non-renewal, termination or in the course of an investigation into conduct of become. So basically, if the person is departing under a threat of a negative an adverse employment action which is termination or non-renewal or

035if they're in the course of the investigation into conduct of the company if it's I'm investigating you because you stole Jake's pet probably not hitting that but some of the bigger issues potentially even if someone is just under investigation and they choose to leave before invest and that's and I you know and I'm thinking of other things not just um public education and thinking of some other like public agencies versus private I think it's handled differently. So I just want to make sure I'm understanding aware only applies to public schools public schools. >> Okay. So, a person uh is it that they would need to have notice at the outset of the investigation that this is potential like this is potential conduct of the coming that's why we're investigating or is it >> not necessarily.

036>> So, it's something they're under investigation for something that's pretty you know falls somewhere in there in the conduct and they leave >> then that should be reported >> to state. So, I mean there's some easy ones, right? So, if there's an allegation that you had a relationship with a student, >> sexual relationship was maybe you haven't confirmed whether that has happened or not. Maybe the police are involved trying to figure out whether that's happened or not and the individual leaves, the educator who's covered under the license code departs, resigns, then that would be a mandatory. Now, if There is there's there's going to be some gray areas in things that are less than a clear vi alleged violation of the code. And so there's there's going to be some gray area. But typically, if

037the person is being investigated and it's so serious that it ends in the person parting, legal counsel is going to suggest that the report is made to the state. questions so far. I don't a lot information. Um, so just so I'm clear on code for lure, code for employees, it covers anybody who is employed by this district except bus except bus drivers. So does that include >> so >> SRO? Does that include >> not include technically the >> unless they have a separate contract? Does they have a separate supplemental contract or a contract with school >> or if anyone is a coach? >> They are going to be covered by the license regardless of what they do in their quote unquote day job. Okay. The what the reason I keep on saying bus drivers is

038because they have a license but it's not a you know they have a license to drive the bus is not an Ohio department of education educator license. >> So uh food service would not be covered bus drivers not covered. Now we go through the same code of conduct with them because especially with you guys you've adopted your district code of conduct to mirror the licensing code. So it's even more relevant for them. Even in districts where that hasn't happened, where it's just a general code of conduct, but you don't do the following things and it doesn't specifically dubtail to the Ohio Lure Code, I still suggest to those clients, go through this with everyone. Um because basically, if you line up with that and you don't want to follow those big picture things, you're going

039to be in goodstead whether you're a licensed or nonlicensed employee. But it would be those who have licenses that are educator licenses issued by the state. >> Speaking of people activity license, >> correct? >> Um, you had asked who kind of makes the decision for uh whether there's going to be an investigation or not and that that largely falls with the administration. So there may be times uh where the board typically what you'll see in your policy and your policy kind of tracks this as well when it talks about the uh the structure of the board to staff relationship as well as the board to the superintendent relationship is obviously superintendent is responsible for the management of the organization day-to-day operations that would include investigations. Um now that can be delegated within right and then

040there may be times kept apprised of those situations certainly communication is a good thing but typically would not be the board who says hey something's going down over there I'm telling you to conduct an investigation into that there may be some communication on certain issues discussion but ultimely it falls within the administration unless there is an allegation against an employee that works well this is supervised directly by so if there is an allegation against the superintendent allegation against the treasurer I don't think we have a business director that is separate parts directed to you some do then any of those allegations typically then the board president vice president the officers would then kind of coordinate it. But then there would be the opportunity to make sure through it obviously we have executive session to discuss

041personnel. You would bring the rest of the board up to speed on what's other questions? Again, I'm I'm hitting these at top level. We gonna save like talking about training and stuff till you go through all these, right? That's what you said you're gonna go through. >> I mean, I'm kind of Yeah. I mean, >> I I worry that I'm going to be duplicative in each one of these to say I mean, the two trainings that I always tell my clients, you absolutely need to do um the lender code of conduct and again that covers the district operation. And so when I say I guess this is cutting cutting ahead, but it's probably good to just say it now. Um the way that I suggest the best way to do it is administration because there

042are certain things specific to administrators in dealing with the code. They bear the brunt and the consequence of if you have failed to mandatorily report or if you failed to make a discretionary report that you really should. And so there are different things that they need to understand within the code. And then I I do think that anyone with a license should hear in some fashion and there's a spectrum of training that um as I I think I mentioned that there were tip sheets. Um those tip sheets are great. The Ohio Department of Education and they've had input from the unions in those. They've had input from the principles uh associations in developing those tip sheets. So the lure code itself is 18 pages of kind of legal mumbo jumbo, right? And so it's not

043exactly a terribly interesting read that would keep you engaged, but the tip sheets all hit upon main issues out of the lure code themselves and they're front and back and they basically are dos and don'ts. And so I, you know, the example that I used for you was specifically just says in very plain English, do not text individual students. Period. Right? Easy to easy to understand, easy process as opposed to the, you know, the again the license code. Lawyers got a hold of that one. Um, as opposed to just the boom boom boom, here's the practical use. So, one of the options is, you know, pushing out and and and I think this is one that you absolutely should do if you're not doing it yet. Pushing out those tip sheets in a regular fashion

044to employees to say here's, you know, tip sheet on and they're specific to there's one called extracurricular leaders. Okay, so this one relates to those of you who are engaging. Now, I think it's good for everybody to read like everybody should read them. Um, there's one that talks obviously there's a few that talk about social media. There are a few that talk about when when remote uh remote instruction arose. There was a tip sheet that came out. So, this this is where you get like the scenarios. Um they're a little cheesy sometimes on they're kind of like the lawyers when we were going through law school and it's like the illiterative names like Polly Pocket does the following and so it it can be a little cheesy but again it's an easy read. It's something

045that will keep folks interested and then on typically on the back there are very clear dos and don'ts with scenarios and there are a number of them that you look and you say the again these are not necessarily common sense. Um, when the one that I pull from the do not text individual students, the scenario on the back of a tip sheet is that a student reaches out to the French instructor on on an evening to ask and directly texts her and asks about a field trip. So, it's not even inappropriate contact. It's not personal contact. It's school related content. >> Why would the student have the French teacher? >> One of the things that we talk about and This is when we do the exact well and when we do the training it's there's

046not any use the district application remind use this district email like that's okay you can communicate individually with students on district um but in that scenario it's not even you know it is school related and Ohio department of education says do not do this again that's not necessarily and and it can be a well-intentioned people who falls into that trap, right? And so making sure that folks understand what's out there. So tip sheets definitely thing that I would work into the training repertoire uh training with administrators is something that I think is important and then I think we already have on the books actually a staff training on this new code code of content. That's one that I think is again a very important one for everybody page and usually that's it's very well received

047by they're appreciative of it. We do it in a way that um is still engaging um and interesting and so that's the the training on that. So I guess what I'm hearing is you you reviewed our staff conduct policy, lure policy, they coincide. So you feel like we have a good grasp on the policy as a district >> like we are saying the right things in our policy. Um, I think probably what what my concern is is we could have all these great policies and they're written down and but are we following them? Are are we following them? And how do we how do we change the the culture maybe of kind of not following them and get everybody on board? Um, you know, administrators, principal building principles. I mean, how do we how do

048we get buy in on this? >> So, you know, I'm I'm legal, right? And so I I maybe I'm going to focus kind of what I see with 25 years of experience of doing this and then recognize that every district is different, right? and and a lot of it, you know, the buy in thing buy in piece of that that that might be a different discussion than what I'm about to put out. Um, oftent times when I see when I see folks that they're not enforcing a policy, it's because they don't know how to, right? And so it's I don't know what to do with this and everybody's very busy so ah we're probably okay right and so understanding I think anytime that you want to put a focus on something you have to be

049deliberate right and so if you see that as a concern I think part of it is again back to the training and enforcing it kind of reinforcing with administrators Look, this is an important thing and we're going to give you the resources to know when you should be dealing with these sorts of issues and how to do it. And here are some tips and here are some and it it doesn't have to be, you know, oh, there are times where you will again title N is the one that does take a long period of time. scripted out by law, but it it doesn't if you do it right, it doesn't have to be always that or minor non title n infractions, right? Like these are things that we can take care of. And there's kind

050of a a broad spectrum of how you do that while still understanding the labor relationship and building a good labor relationship, but also and I frankly I'm one and most unions will tell you you build a good labor relationship by following objective, not being subjective. Objective policies tie back to that, stay consistent with your collective bargaining agreement and we're treating people fairly. And so I I think it does go back to making sure that people know how to deal with it. And then if you still see issues with them not dealing with it, then you've got to talk about how that how that >> kind of along those lines. Say you do have even a minor infraction or whatever. Is there like standards maybe in our collective bargaining or whatever of like discipline like or

051is it very subjective on every case because sometimes that can create if you know what the discipline like you know if there's a discipline and a culture of it like there's accountability accountability there you know like it might help that too I don't know where we stand on that I guess >> yeah so we do have uh the two collective bargain agreements and there's language in there about when a complaint comes in, how we have to respond to it. Um, and so we have to follow that while also following the law and the code of conducts and balancing that. And it's important that when we're um at the negotiation table reviewing language that we're Eric helps us that make sure we're not giving away either obligations that we have to do or benefits or rights

052that we can do. Um, we have to make sure we're not negotiating away. Yeah. And I think do we have progressive discipline? >> Yes. >> Yeah. And so I think that's what >> there is some language in there that >> Yeah. So there are within the within contracts u progressive discipline. Progressive discipline doesn't mean you know if somebody engages in serious misconduct you're just skipping steps. It doesn't mean that hey you you trying to avoid real serious issues but uh you know you've engaged with a relationship with a student. Okay well you're getting a written reprimand because that's the first step like that's not but but it does lay out and again it gives you an objective measure for the hey you're right and it doesn't necessarily mean that every time somebody goes you know

053you're late oh we're going right to this. No, it's it can start with a a counseling a non-disciplinary counseling and then if it recurs, you know, then you move it up. But again, I think having administration understand, you know, building level, those that are responsible, understand, okay, well, these are my options. This is how I can do this. This is these are some tools again for the investigation because you can uh you can make mistake in the procedure and regardless of how much you can prove substantively if you screw up the procedure it's a legal term it's not going to stick. So, uh, so making sure that folks understand how to how to go about their process. That's the that's usually the second one that I suggest to administration aside from like a general update

054on here's everything that's coming down from the state and federal, which there's a lot. Um, the one that kind of cuts across even for my private sector clients, how do you run an investigation? Like what do you need to do? What do you need to think about? How do you go the threshold issues that you have to approach? Am I the right one to be running this conflict of interest? Should I do X, Y, and Z? And then even getting into the investigation. Here are some tips on how to run appropriate investigation. Push out the tip. um to make sure our admin and relay the staff code of conduct. Did I hear you guys? >> Correct. >> So, for convocation day, uh Eric's going to come present and so he'll be talking about these items.

055Uh and then the plan for me is uh at building or department meetings have those department leaders, the building principles or the department leaders um make sure that each month they're touching on elements of that code of conduct. Um the tip sheet. So, hey, you got the tip sheet in your email. Did you review it? Were the questions? You know, this scenario was a funny one like because they made it funny or they tried to. Um, but you know, just to keep the conversation alive and going because if general staff sees that the leaders of the district continue to have focus and talk about it, then they'll know that it's important as a culture of the district. >> After listening to, you know, the what we've been talking about, I I kind of wonder if

056we might have a little gap on on the coaches part of that. how you brought that up because um while many of our coaches are teachers or under this, we do have a lot that are not or just on supplement supplemental contracts. Um we might need to think of some way to have a seminar for them or uh they might not give them a convocation or those types that you already have set up, but we might need to find some way to close that gap with coaches. When we're talking about administration, >> when we're talking about administration, you guys knowing what's going on is Matthew, >> he's involved. Yeah, he's >> Well, we used to back when my kids were in high school, we had a spring and a winter athletic mandatory meeting with all

057athletes in the spring and then was it fall and spring? So, the Ohio High School, >> yeah, the Ohio High School Athletic Association requires coaches to have a preseason. >> We had everybody together, like if you were in the fall, all sports came together. The athletic director ran the program. You had to go through the athletic code of conduct. There were scenarios that were given and you know cell phone use, social media use and yeah it it took up what an hour of your evening or something but it let parents and kids know this is what we expect of you and coaches were there and I I thought it was beneficial. Um, and you had to sign in. So, you know, your coaches and your building principal knew if you attended or didn't attend. Um,

058and I don't think we do that anymore. >> No, I would say that I I've heard that we used to do that and then in the last 13 years somewhere uh it it faded away. It went down to like the program uh specific level. Um, and again to your point, Chris, like some of the program leaders are um, you know, they have a they have a a job outside and they come in and coach for us and that's really their only contact with the district. So, I know that uh, in the spring the uh, director of activities and athletics uh, held a head coaches meeting. He reviewed uh, the revision of the uh, coaching handbook. Uh, he got some input on the student handbook. Um and he talked about other like calendars, fundraisers, like other

059pinch points. Um and so but that only had head coaches. So bringing back to all coaches uh each season having that and then making sure uh the parent meeting, preseason parent meeting um is touched on those points too uh is something that we got to do. >> Yep. >> Different coaches relay these this information differently. It it depends on the coach and if you want it the same across the board, you've got to have everybody on the same page and getting the same message. And I don't think that that's happening for us unfortunately. >> Yeah. Coaches and extracurriculars are the ones where because you're dealing with Saturdays, you're dealing with times outside of the school that you're interacting with students, right? So inherently there's a little bit of difference with that compared to Okay, I

060know that I'm in a school building. I know that I'm dealing with in a classroom. There's just a particularly for those that we have that are we call coaches, right? Coming in licensed as educators, teachers, administrators, etc. And again, particularly if they're private coaches or they're involved in travel ormies or what, that's a completely different way that they communicate with students and there are all sorts of issues with well, you know, my uh an athlete has a recruiting instant page. Can I interact with that person? I can tell you that the lure code says no. Not directly individually like DMing. But wait, I'm trying to support. Well, so how do you deal with those things? Right? There are there are definitely coach specific issues and it it has been an issue for a lot of

061districts and that's one where especially To be fair to the coach, you got to put those folks on things, right? Because they're not thinking. They're thinking, "I'm coming in. I want to help the district. I want to coach kids. This is how I kind of coach in my my private silo." Okay. Yeah. But the way that Ohio Department of Education looks at this is sports exist only because of the curricular purpose. applies directly and in no difference to what happens on the field, what happens in uh chess club, what happens in any of these extracurriculars. And so there are specific provisions in the code. It says do not motivate by disparaging a student's academic or athletic performance specifically include. So if you have a coach who goes out and I'll save choice language but is

062using and you look and say would you do that in a classroom? That's how OD looks at this and that's how folks have to understand when you're coming in. OD will say would you have said that to that kid in a classroom? Would you have done that? Would you have gotten his or her face? you grabbed him by the shoulder pads and dragged him to the and said those things in front of 500 of your favorite fans. So those are things that not necessarily again back to this wow it's all common sense it's not um build off of what you were talking about though I mean to me training there's like several um you talked Eric about administrators um kind of our certified employees or like full-time employees Um, you know, we talked about like

063the the volunteers are kind of the non full-time employee coaches um or advisors, but to me the the kind of the other pieces to like close this gap are the students themselves um and secondarily or peopleing the parents and and community because I think if we can hit all it's not necessarily the same training right for all of those those audiences So if we can get all of those audiences or certainly make the training available to people at least in the event that they feel like they need it. So be it like on the website or or whatever. Um then I think it's difficult to know what to report when you don't know you know where the lines are. So you know um or there's not an easy way to report it. There's several different

064ways to report it so that if I'm uncomfortable picking up the phone and talking to the principal because maybe it's small town and maybe I feel like there's too many connections, what's the other option for me to report? That sort of thing. Um I I think that's really like maybe our our challenge is to try to to go to the best practices to not just like push out maybe do some like inerson training and also training a kind of a perpetual basis. So go ahead as a parent maybe I'm having a good day. I don't I see the training it doesn't really mean anything to me at the time but come February there's an issue I see texting somebody like what's that about and now I can go and consult with that you know the

065training that's out there like write some responsibilities of of training. So >> yeah I think it would be great. Um I you know I try not to overwhelm with my preferred action steps. I try to recognize practical but it would be great to have something go out to parents and students that tracks the lensure code and helps us help them and vice versa on these issues. So, for example, just as an example, you know, don't have your kid text the student, text the parent or text the coach, right? Um, if there needs to be a communication directly like adult parent or guardian to coach if there has to be a direct like talking to coaches about not giving out their cell phone, but also not using it if you have in a different context, right?

066those sorts of here are some expectations that we have of you as parents and students that would because I can tell you I've had multiple situations where you know as we say in the training you are always the adult well the kid kept on texting me the kid kept on I don't know how he got my kept on texting me and then yeah I started texting back because it just became what I didn't start it I didn't write well help us help you by here are the guidelines you we're going to use only and I'm just using as an example the remind or final forms or whatever >> bill 29 compant >> thank you for not making >> no but Eric you can see in a different setting and I think I'll just go to

067coaching or advisors you know a lot of times like the best practice is like well if the player is having a the coach, the coach wants that player to push them directly about it, right? Well, we know kids today, some of them have difficulty having conversations. So, they like uh to initiate communication via text, via some other platform, right? And so, you can see where like if we're not aligning these messages and expectations on both sides, like while that coach that sounds pretty innocuous to say, I want your kid talking to me first, like that might be deemed or like interpreted as an you know invitation that like hey reach out to me give me a call whatever I want this student you know it's like yeah they're not unable right the coach or the

068adult and the so um I think trying to find that balance where they have good relationships functional relationships but also that safety within certain whether it's office hours whether it's you know that look that practice in front of other people, right? Um versus, you know, private conversations. I'll give you a ride home and we can talk about it. That sort of thing. You're right. No cars. Well, and I think it's difficult because I I do think that the state lure was ahead of state law in terms of grooming because I know that grooming has been in the in the lensure conduct for years. Um, and they even spell out specifically because of course I'm the dork. Can I have it printed out? But, um, not only grooming the student or minor, but also with their

069family because how often we see that like, oh, how wonderful this coach, this teacher is giving my kids special attention and they're talking to me and they're so nice to me and they're helping them and they and I just want to be like, nobody should be taking that level of interest in your kid, right? And just like that would be my PSA for parents is like nobody. I don't care how well-intentioned. I don't care how admirable. I don't care what visit like nobody should be taking that level of interest in your kid. Um but you know that is spelled out. So it's important for families to know that um flag radar but also for other people to know that right. So if a student isn't catching it because they it's it's grooming like it happens

070slowly. It happens over time. They push boundaries. They it builds. It can be a long time building. If another student is aware of what this looks like and what's not okay and they hear the friend, maybe that student will anonymously report, maybe they'll say something to their parent or somebody else be like, I don't I don't think that's okay. I'm worried about my friend because they don't see the danger here, but I do and how can I? And then the question of what do I do about it? >> Yeah. And one of the points that I drive home training on that particularly is consent is not a defense. >> Mom and dad say it's all right. taxes my daughter, my son individually, like we've known him forever. It's not an event. Um, and in fact,

071it would fall within. So, that was amended recently um to include the 12 month window and to also talk about reducing the inhibitions through connections with the family. And so, it is a very interesting provision of life code. The main point there is well again it's okay that he gives my kid a ride home. I we're family friends. No not okay even with consent. It's okay that he texts or she texts my student. No consent. I think that is the point that we drive home there on that particular >> and that change on the 12 month that he referenced is that they cannot begin a relationship if that student was a student 12 months 12 months prior. So once somebody graduates sometimes people think well it's it's they're 18 they're an adult like still not

072okay it's still a problem. So then I I don't >> like either >> you can be 20 and be a student and still engage in a relationship. >> Yeah. criminal stat >> there's an issue of um how not saying like this is an issue here but like how then um kind of in the same way that I mentioned if if students are aware of this so then somebody's like hey I'm worried about this friend like I don't think they're supposed to be talking to this person or spending time with this person other educators so educators reporting right because they're in the building all day they're seeing this and oftentimes it's like a lot students going in and out of that office and spending time in there like it it I'm not sure what's going on

073in there. Um what's the obligation of other educators even without tangible proof, right? I think people don't want to believe something um inappropriate or unprofessional is happening. Um and so kind of is that included in your training to kind of what is their obligation there? >> So yes to an extent. Um there are some black and white guidelines, right? So, if there's any suspicion that there's child abuse occurring or neglect, then that's an absolute mandatory report. Um, if you observe something, then you're going to be in an obligation to report situation. It depends on what you're So, I I mean, I know where you're going. There's like this I have a a creeper, right? This is my creeper. So where on the creep meter am I reporting? And that's a tough call, right? So am

074I just seems weird that they're talking. This is one of those those of us who survive law school like you know it when you see it, but is there an obligation? There absolutely should be in your mind a professional obligation to deal with something even if there isn't specific like if you really feel something's going on right something inappropriate is going on that's that should be an educator should go to the building administrator to say look I've got a feeling here something or again that's a tough call right because to make an allegation like that and have it not be accurate can be damaging obviously to the individual. Um, and so I understand it's a tough it's a precarious situation, but if there's any indication observation that you've seen something inappropriate, there's except surprised that

075there was a case a couple years ago I think over in the Cleveland area where there were a number of educators. There was one maybe took a picture of a student and it wasn't even you know but and the way that that one educator was talking about student there were like four or five other educators who were part of those conversations and failed to report and there was action taken by OD against those other for failing to report that this person was making those comments and had this photo of a student and so that was a little surprising to me of you know having to understand and get our colleagues to understand what this is. >> I think in your training though too and I think this will be the you know the art when

076you talk about like especially to our employees and coaches is I mean part of like hearing about your colleague is saying like hey I think I'm not saying you crossed any line but I think you might be getting a little close to it. So like like help me help you before we're at a point of no return right? So like, hey, your boundaries with the students seem a little fuzzy, you know, and so I think there's probably ways short of being like, you know, you're you're fully like I now have to report you to ODB or my own licenses at risk to I care about you and I'm I'm worried about, you know, that that some of this might be construed as not great judgment, right? It's not necessarily like a a violation. And this,

077you know, how do we create a culture where folks feel comfortable having those conversations well before both for the educator or volunteer coaches and the students site to be like, hey, let me let me like kind of yank it with that before you do cross a line. >> Well, that's your ultimate goal, right? Your ultimate goal is self-regulation. >> Yeah. and and early so whenever I do frontline supervisor training those that are directly dealing with whether regardless of industry the point is always you know and it's a cliche right you got a snowball you don't want it to right it's that boundary like you want to hit those as soon as possible and to have a colleague tell you hey probably shouldn't do that that's then you've done something completely right where you have really

078made it go across the entire organization that folks a are comfortable with others saying I know what's right and what's wrong that probably like you're dancing a line and you're catching it so early before it starts to become an issue and you're hearing it from someone who you know you know has your best interest they're a cop it's not the you know here comes big bad board or bad administration. Here comes legal counsel. >> That's that's an ideal situation from a labor relations perspective. >> And and this is this is you know this is this is to help you. This is to make sure you keep your license. This is to make sure you stay this and again with the license you lose your license. You're not teaching people in Ohio for a public school

079district. Does Ohio participate? I know there's like what the National Association of State Directors of Teacher Education. It's a national network where those kinds of things get reported because I know that's a question that comes up like that's fine for state of Ohio. You move over to statewide Pennsylvania or Michigan. >> I think there is a recip I don't know if it's that one specifically, but I believe there is reciprocal reporting with certain states. >> Don't I'm I'm not positive. So in like talking about culture like in Christ you know a lot of like companies especially if you're manufacturing like safety really important right and like to the point that like every meeting starts off with like a safety share or like if you hit on the topic of safety every time you um and

080I wonder if that's an opportunity for us Um, and I think it could be broader than just like, you know, um, like warnings on how not to lose your license. It could be, you know, mental health like, but you know, could be have that like tool kit of just super quick hits. Um, and you know, whether it's administrative meeting, whether it's a PD, whether it's we're sitting down like kickoff uh before dinner, but we're talk about safety. If safety is the most important thing to us as a district, we're going to talk about it at least for a minute or two before we talk about anything. Just do you guys do that? >> Oh, yeah. >> Every every meeting, you know, safety and >> it could be like wear sunscreen. It could be >> Yeah.

081It was like, you know, someone did that or like you know, in the winter like make sure you take break. >> Yes. No, it's exactly it. But it's that mindset of you know first >> well you certainly would have I mean you're not gonna run out of material right because I mean even with house bill 8 there's the safety component of student welfare the student services student health services which is broadly defined those sorts of counseling issues that you get into making sure that folks understand the differences now how we have to secure parental consent for certain services to be provided. But that you you certainly would have an ability to build in to any a significant portion to safety or you could do it as quick hitters, right? >> And I'm not even talking

082like an either or, right? Like you know you're level seven training at the beginning of the year, whatever grade, but I'm talking about in addition to you know what Is that something to speak to everybody in that moment? >> Um, for sure. We're going to um have a new focus on as we move into new school year. >> I just I you know I'm hearing the talk of the tip sheets and it it just kind of made me think of a meeting I was at last night for our organization. It was something as simple as, you know, we're trying to think of a way to thank our donors. And someone came up with a 3x5 or maybe 8 by5 on a card that just had a thank you note. Maybe it was four sentences, real

083short. And the question was asked, you know, if you are the donor and you got this card, would you read it? Half of the room, half of our committee said, no, I'm not going to take time to read that. I'm gonna either throw it in my purse and it's going to get put somewhere else or I'm going to leave it on my table. And I guess I I feel the same way with tip sheets. Um they're not going to need them. They're they're not going to take time to um you know, it just it's not going to happen. And I I just think how what you're talking about talking about it, the more we talk about it, the more people think it's important. And I and I just think we need to be really proactive

084in talking about it. I don't think people want more often. >> Um I don't know off the top of my head. I would say uh like building meetings, they they have staff meetings monthly. Uh and then at the departments uh like uh bus drive the transportation they have their uh monthly trip selection meeting uh custodials meet only like three times a year kind of idea. Food service meets quarterly. So um >> announcements every day and you could pick a day or week you know what I mean like again they're not all >> I would say but Yeah, I hear I hear the high school announcements now that we're in the high school and they uh through the sources of strength programming, they do have uh like tips and advice and uh you know facts about

085like mental health and and those types of elements. So that's obviously just one theme of what we're talking about. Um but yeah, so they could expand that and um talk about other areas of safety that you know creates awareness for students and I know a lot of parents read those announcements or go to the website to access them. We do have mandatory first what Senate Bill 288 and the Save Act, House Bill 123, where we are required to educate students once a year, Erin's law on sexual abuse prevention for K6, sexual violence prevention 712. Um, and then the SAVE act is instruction on suicide awareness, violence prevention, social inclusion, and that's 6 through 12. So you there's opportunities there, right? think about we want to get this in front of students, but some of this

086prevention. >> Yeah. And I mean those mandatory trainings we're doing with students um and so we could review the time of year that we're doing it and then um you know we do it here then some other point of year maybe we do a refresher or a touch base or review just so it continues to be you know in their parental court. >> Yeah. And I so I'm completely with you on sending people more emails. Like that's a minimum in my mind. That's sheer minimum to do. I'm a huge fan of person uh trainings to do that. And and it takes all sorts of different forum. I mean it I did one last year where it was the entire conference brought all of their coaches in for pizza and guess what? We just knocked out

08712 schools in an hour and they all heard the code. Um there's all sorts of different I have schools where every year I do their new teacher new employee training so that we don't miss anybody right and so there are all sorts of options on that but yes I mean with the tip sheets completely agree with you that's a that's like a bare minimum in my mind as far as at least sending those out folks have the opportunity and you've said hey look here they are you should read them but inerson training in my mind is certainly more memorable lounges or something where it's like printed out. It's there. Somebody happens to pick it up and look. I mean, they're catchy, right? They're attractive graphics. I think you sent some out that we saw sheets.

088>> Yeah, they're well done. >> Yeah. And I would say um like from an educational perspective like we differentiate our instruction for students and different learning styles. So our staff also have different learning styles, retention styles. So um yeah multiodal is key. I wondered that there's like things where we have and I'll throw out one it's come up already like coaches giving students right but so we know it's a no no parents may not know it's a no no so like in meetings are coaches up front saying listen I buy like the license that I hold am noted to transport the students in my car under any so I want to be clear. Then the flip side is if I'm a coach I need to stick with the schedule I said for practice or whatever

089because when I decide I'm practice a half hour early and I've got kids that don't drive that all the seven that creates drama right and risk. So I mean all of those how do we tie up like those kind of scenarios that we know maybe are higher risk versus we know you know somebody the texting is another great example if you set that expectation on both sides like hey I can't text your kids I don't want your kid texting me if they do text me I'm not going to respond not because I'm a jerk I don't like your kids but because I'm not permitted to respond you know what I mean and and here's the solution for that you know how do we kind of those two things together on like the let's call it

090just start with like the five most common kind of higher risk scenarios and then you can start to like tackle things from there. I don't know if that's a conversation you can have with your adins or whoever you might as well just trying to do it all white and >> yeah I like the idea right top five top 10 >> bottom bottom five >> bottom five however you want I think a good idea. You know, quick easy hitters that make the point bullet point one cheater that folks see like the idea of going back. As much as we roll our eyes a little bit, we know that a lot of times they're not hitting on any of that kind of stuff. very much like right here schedule. Here's the fundraisers. >> Oh, by the way,

091students, here's what you can't do or don't get, >> which is good. I mean, that should be covered. There's nothing wrong with that. orientation kind of thing separate athletic. >> So we have one uh that's active. It's old and outdated. The director of activities athletics was working to create a new one uh gaining student input. things like that, but it wasn't recommended to the board >> on the social media on the no rides hall. >> Yes. That could be another place to to build just to continue with consistency throughout to your point. At some point, you're going to see these things, right? Whether it's through tipsy, whether it's in person, whether it's in the top five things to avoid, build it into the athletic handbook, just another spot. >> So that's one topic. >> Well,

092that's kind of two. >> Two more to go. >> Okay. So for um I'll high level Furba. So what does FURPA do? FURPA prohibits the disclosure of personal personally identifiable information. So you'll see the PII reference personally identifiable information of students. So this is only related to student records. This does not apply to employee records. and play records are completely separate from this and there are not specific there are a few specific laws but not in this broad spectrum regulated student educational records is the federal law there is a state corollary as well I think 321 those who are keeping track at home I want to read that one so um in general and you do have again uh you actually have a lengthy policy on furpa is J-R that talks about in general what

093student records fall within personally identifiable information talks about directory information so boards of education can designate what information is called directory information and then that directory information shared in a broader fashion than your personally identifiable information. In general, the PI is prohibited from disclosure to third parties and really should be only limited in access to those who have you'll hear this legitimate educational need to know the information that is in those records. So that's the top level overview. There are exceptions to FUPA. Um if there's there's a health and safety situation so disclosure of records if there is and this has to be kind of in a real time situation. So where you're seeing this happen frequently is access to video records or to student records or law enforcement if they are currently in something's

094going down current. This is not, hey, I think something happened three days ago. I need the education records that they would have to go through. And so it does relate to law enforcement as well as far as how you regulate the student records that go uh to third parties um in general. So kind of cutting right to the chase for board members processing personally identifiable information there will be times that you'll have access to that. I can think of the main one is point for studentul that might come to you that directly relate. So disciplinary records are education records. They are protected under FEA but because of the state law how words can their hearings on expulsion hearings, those records will be accessible to you. There may be a few other instances where you might

095need to know personally identifiable information, but in general, board members don't typically need that information down to a specific student. Typically, when you're looking at situations that deal with discipline, there's aggregate data or building data. Those things are not ne those things are not student records. Um those are your district records. is when you drill down into I want to know the specific student disciplinary consequence that occur unless there's an expulsion that proper question I think you kind of touched on a little bit say of video so that line between like something happens in a school um and say somebody at school personnel has access to video, they're looking at it, they bring law enforcement in and share it with law enforcement. Uh I'm hearing that that is potentially a fura issue because if it

096would need to go through a legal process to asssure that the student record is being protected student privacy. >> Anytime we have a video recording first question is what's on >> and so the content is going to drive what may be protected or not. So oftent times um let's start with let's start with the one that uh I just had one last week. Law enforcement was asking for the video of the parking lot because somebody backed into somebody else. We're not in the education record zone, right? That record might be a public record. It might not even be a public record because it's not something that we're maintaining to document the functions of the district necessarily. Now, if it was one of our vehicles, now we're probably into a public situation. Um, when you get

097into video that has students on it where, and this has gone back and forth over my two decades, um, so if you've heard differently, you probably heard differently 15 years ago, they there is there is it's called FPCO. There's an office at the federal government used to be. I'm not sure there will still be um that interprets per and they're responsible for enforcing pera and we have had situations over my years where folks have made complaints to the FTCO and it's a slow process but they eventually address. So with regard to videos if there is for example a fight and there are two students in the video and they are fighting on the video. So this is one this is a common scenario right if they are disciplined that video becomes an education record for

098either student or both student each of them is disciplined it is an education record for them. So now you're into this video from three days ago and you want us to see that video then protects that video. We would suggest to them and we obviously always want to cooperate with >> we would suggest to them that they provide us two different types of subpoenas. There's a subpoena that is a criminal subpoena that often says do not disclose the existence of this subpoena in which case then they get the video and we don't have to notify parents. If it's a subpoena that doesn't have that as magic language. Then there's a process you have to go through to say, "Hey parent, the law enforcement has this. You have you, the parent, have the opportunity to file

099a motion flush if you don't want the records to go out. Otherwise, it's going out on there is now if no student is disciplined, it could be different also injuries. So under FURPA, if there's a video that documents an injury to a student, it can be protected under the law as well. So that's the it's disciplinary, but also if there's that's kind of the off forgot, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be a discipline situation or that might cause the injury. It could be that this was just that could be protected by Now, if there's video and in live time we have a serious safety threat, your legal counsel is going to tell you that you're on providing that record as soon as possible. So, it would fall under the health situation. So, any

100active threat of any would be one Does any of that apply to extracurricular? I mean, >> I'm guessing not they tell football games and whatever all the time, but >> I just thought I'd ask because how some of the other things apply to >> Yeah. Like we were just talking about coaches get >> short answer >> for a variety of reasons but yeah I mean if you're out participating in public >> you will have and I'm sure forums have sign offs on certain things. There will be times though um what you need to be careful of you can opt out of directory information and I've had a situation where there was a student who it was not a good domestic situation had moved a cow two pounds over had opted out of fura and unfortunately

101it was kindergarten first day of kindergarten day and guess who ended up on and so Fura is a real you have to pay attention to Furpa. Um I know there can you know it's the most engaging of trainings. Um but there are situations that create liability and there are situations that create problems that um perpet with other other students. There are certain practices that some, you know, teachers have about putting up grades or having names associated with crates, those sorts of things. And I I'm sure there's I'm sure it's certainly something that wouldn't hurt for >> teachers among themselves, right? teachers talk and figure >> we can talk about this issue like no you actually shouldn't be talking about an issue >> and I mean I don't I don't mean to make this more complicated

102but you know what you have available now online through book infinite campus you know do we we need to pay attention to who has access to what within those systems as Is there a legitimate need to bill eight or any other questions so far? Okay. House Bill 8. So, House Bill 8 again uh incorporated the religious release time for religious instruction. You might hear me say RTR. Um that's kind of in its own silo. I'm not going to talk a lot about that. That's the one that that required the boards to provide time. Um there are two other main components to House Bill 8. And so just again surface level you have already, this is good news, you've already incorporated the requirements for policy into your policy and that policy specifically is IGBLA. >> Okay.

103>> Yeah. Um IGBLA and it's called promoting parental involvement. So that's the piece that incorporates u the two other of the three main components of House Bill 8. And so cutting right to it. So within this and I'll speak in generally if you need me to go back to specific definitions.com. So within this there's basically a prohibition on providing sexual content in instructional materials to those that are K through three and then providing making sure that you're providing age appropriate developmentally appropriate content on that's the general gist. Uh it does build in a process of disclosure to parents as far as opt outs. It also builds in the ability for a parent to challenge if there is a material in the instruction that they believe would meet the definition of sexual content. Sexual content does

104uh by definition and I'll work from policy that way it's staying consistent. Um just reading a little bit of this for you. Ensure the district ensures any sexuality content is age appropriate, developmentally appropriate. Student receiving the instruction regardless of age or grade level. Provides parents the opportunity to review the instructional materials. And then sexuality content. So the definition is included in your policy. any oral or written instruction, presentation, image or description of sexual concepts or gender ideology provided in the classroom setting. So that's the definition that was built into the law that you've now been required to put into your policy. So um it is something that principles are going to need to be aware of because the challenge materials by by law and by policy goes into the principal initially and then can make

105its way to the superintendent and then potentially makes its way to the board. And your policy does include um that if a parent appeals to the appeals the superintendent's decision, the board must review the superintendent's decision and if the board determines it necessary, hold a hearing on the superintendent. So you're not required to hold a hearing. That would be a board decision that you would make. And again, this is basically some districts already have it. You may have it as well. didn't check a book challenge process or an instructional material challenge process. This is very similar to that except it is specifically outlined. These are the steps in the law and now >> I think is the law that it excludes what were mandated for the sexual abuse prevention training and the sexual violence and

106dating violence. >> And so there are you are absent. So as part of the curriculum if it's state required curriculum is excluded. There is not to go too far into the weeds on this. This is something that may get clarified by the state in legislation. Uh the question is what is instruction? Is that classroom libraries? Is that curriculum? And there's there's some great really. >> So that's the first component. The second component and again this is built into the same policy too even though it's kind of two very different concepts but it is in the same policy because they both come out of house. So, um, this goes to student health and well-being, and this is the, again, I I'll try to paraphrase it without getting into all of the legal language, but this relates

107to student health services and providing counseling to students, particularly, and this was the main focus of the legislation for those students who may indicate that they are having issues related to gender ideology, trans transition, And so there is as you will see in your policy a process that needs to now apply and parents from the perspective of providing consent on those particular issues we have developed and I've already shared with Dr. T. There are proposed checklists to go through these situations as well as graph notifications. There are certain notices that have to go out when you encounter situations and we've provided those to the district privilege or how to address as these situations >> situation where a student they mention you know an issue of gender ideology but in the same discussion he's talking about

108like what could potentially And how does how does a counselor or a teacher like how do they balance that? Because we do know there are scenarios where the kid may be talking to someone at school because they don't feel safe or they're not safe at home given this issue or some other issue. We know that there's kids who aren't safe at home for a number of reasons. >> Yeah. So I think we're going to be in one of those situations. what specifically was said. >> Right. I will tell you if there is a student comes in and says again I'm taking the kind of the easier scenario. Right. My mom dad guardian hit me. Right now the fact is your guardian parent. If that's a child abuse situation, we are reporting the sentence may end

109because I am considering transitioning. In my mind, there's the abuse and then you may have to then decide from the policy application and the House Bill 8 application if counseling can continue to be provided to that student. But we are always always going to report suspected challenges. >> You're talking about whether or not counseling can continue that student in the district. >> Correct. outside of the district is not an issue. It's whether the district continues. >> It is not our issue outside. >> Oh, I don't know. I I just >> I know that we're young from a humanistic perspective. Unfortunately, our hands will be tied that if parent says I don't want you to provide the following services to my we are not providing the following talked before like you know our personal override what

110our legal obligations we have. So to that extent you know I have personal opinions but there's not really a point in might not be at the end of the day we're still a nation bound by law certainly it's bound by law >> you know so they go but I point that >> our obligation are we try to set our fresh kids so I think an an opportunity for us to figure out I'm sure you know they'll probably brainstorm solutions but what is that in those situations and what other resources that may exist that aren't handcuffed for lack of a better word by this type of legislation and I ideally nonprofit child So I don't know if there's an opportunity to identify what those are in our community because we may not be able to directly

111provide those support services that >> yeah and I would say when house bill 8 passed and then the policy came in uh the counseling department was looking at that reaching out to professional organizations peers uh for guidance, direction, legal updates for guidance. Um they don't necessarily have all the answers today. U but they continue to work on that because they they their core is doing what's best for kids and supporting kids for success. Um they also won't violate the law though, so they want to make sure that they're um staying within the parameters. Um so yeah, it's something that is evolving as we get ready to school for sure. So we're required to posly notify the parent when there's a change in student services. Student services include counseling services also students mental emotional physical health

112and wellbeing for the school's ability to provide a safe supportive learning environment for the student. Then the definition of students mental, emotional, physical health is defined at a minimum. Sickness, physical injury, psychological trauma, harassment, intimidation, bullying, any request by a student to identify as a gender that does not align with the student's biological sex and then exhibition of suicidal. There are also >> request is requester. >> Oh you call me by >> and within your policy in this copyright law. Well, district personnel are prohibited from directly or indirectly encouraging student concerning the students mental, emotional, physical health as I just all of those components or any of those components. Um, district personnel are prohibited from discouraging or prohibiting parental notification of involving affect students mental or like where does that create an eminent risk of

113crime to that student? >> But again from our perspective, from a legal perspective, we still have child abuse report that we are all mandatory reports. You guys aren't mandatory reports, but anybody works for the district. Now, some of us may be in different context, but as a board member, >> they should. >> That's House Bill In a nutshell, there's a lot to House Bill 8 that's going to be in practice very difficult to manage to lay out policy. Are there any legal challenges in this impact like viability? >> Actually had challenges 68 which was the athletics participation the denial of gender from care. Um there have been obviously legal challenges to the executive orders that we've seen develop. This is one I have not seen. I don't know if that a group might special interest

114group might wait until it's applied in practice from a standing perspective on the face of it from a constitutional. So, that's one. Um, again, takeaways for that one. That one is definitely going to be a recurring how to work with counselors, how to work with because this is one where well-intentioned folks put things just whether intentional or inadvertent. to train students or providing students with information. That makes it clear that if they share certain information that teachers or counselors will then have to take certain actions so that they know kind of the cause and effect up front and can make decisions about with whom to seek um counseling or share information with maybe at the front end of the equation. >> I think the only as a district be careful of is that section that

115I read you about district personnel are prohibited from discouraging or prohibiting parental notification of an involvement in the city >> that's a very broad >> yeah I don't disagree but is there a way to mutually just provide the facts without providing any sort of opinion or direction one way or the other just so that it's no going in if you do this will happen if they don't like what will happen that's not really that's not letting right so you know I go back to say act bill 123 which is instruction suicide awareness violence prevention social inclusion a lot of times I do mental health first aid training um we always provide a list of resources that are available to anybody at any time because you know people are all over the place. They may not

116have accessibility to counselors. So we do you know texting lines, phone lines, you know. So I think that that's an important piece that I would assume or hope is part of that education that's provided there. So I think it comes in other ways that this legislation is is you know strictly trying to go after one particular you know set of circumstances within the student and wanting and requiring parent notification like that's fine I think as far as you know assuring students are okay um and can access resources if thinking of self harm if in other circumstances um I Maybe state law then is is already requiring us to provide resources to students. um they may not realize that their I think at the beginning of most comfort treatments in general it's pretty common practice I'm

117telling my teacher more like oh yeah now I have and again I'm not saying I think we're happy to follow but it's very provide information to students so that again or at least they understand if this then this happens and whether they draw an opinion as to whether it disperses them or not is really not within our control. Was it something like a title nine almost where right a title n somebody starts disclosing something to you as a mandatory reporter but I have to say I'm I just I need you to know that I am a mandatory reporter so I'm going to need to share this. I'm going to need to report this. Let's do it because I do think it's going to be a little bit in the meime because But I do believe

118it should have the disclosure up front so that they can see the resources that I think decide what was the district and what will not always I guess that I particular issue but to me you know been told for the longest time that just by legislation they're no longer safe spaces and I think it's made to know that I thought that was the whole thing talk to someone and you be okay but now this is saying but now they have to tell dad or guardian that you accept this so then there are no safe spaces kids just like brainstorming. Maybe that's not even like a decision they want to make, but like if they certain words to mom and dad, you know what I'm saying? Like again, I education is very very very difficult right

119now across the entire spectrum. There are so many things that seem like natural. Like we want students to feel that they fit in. We want students to find their place. We want students to thrive. And we want to be able to tailor to each student and what they need. And there are all these things by federal and state laws that we can no longer do that we did at higher that we did as of two weeks ago that we can no longer do. Offices don't exist anymore. >> Positions don't exist anymore. Resources don't exist anymore. >> But I'm not I'm literally my question. Like I I hear everything you're saying and I'm not collect. And that is like what are we able to without coming, you know, and again, I guess to me if the

120legislature or folks who prosecute these things would say, well, I think by accurately describing the cost effect that you are discouraging kids, then that seems because um what it suggests is like no, we want to catch kids doing this so that we can notify their parents rather than again get I would I would think the other way to look at it is we're going to take school counselors and teachers out of the business of u receiving this information without notifying. All we're saying is it's illegal to notify kids that that is the state of the law so that they can make an informed choice about to whom uh they want to share information fully informed of what happens next to me that seems I do it in my job all the time you can join

121the women fine to write but here's what will happen if you do I'm not telling you whether you you shouldn't. I'm just giving you factual neutral information. Yeah. And if you don't like it, that's cool. Then maybe that will inform your decision, but I'm not I'm not tipping the scale one way or the other. So I I I guess I mean I don't it would be helpful to know more about that risk assessment and I think the board and we I think collectively try to set our um but Is there a student handbook like does this policy somehow end up I don't know off hand what our student handbook say about you know availability of counseling services and things like that and is there a place because I know all the students pour over student

122handbook cover to cover um but at least you know one place that is accessible to all online accessible to students that they sign that they received it didn't quite >> a very neutral letter that goes out to school to the point of what they've done about Shine a light so that everybody understand awareness. I don't know. I don't I wouldn't say it's ever been, but I think that there are there are instances where students feel comfortable sharing things with a a teacher. Um whether it be ship issues, gender issues. Um maybe they've suffered some kind of um you know, sexual abuse on a on a date or something and they share that with a teacher. They may have never shared it with a parent, but for some reason they feel an affinity towards this teacher

123and this teacher is receptive to that. And so um Now we're saying don't share anything that you know essentially >> I think too like um we're working through it as far as with the counseling staff and then with all staff really and you know maybe some of our behaviors are going to change in that if a student says hey I'd like to be called a nickname right I I don't think we necessarily need to judge the nickname as far as a gender identity to that nickname. There's a lot of names that are gender neutral. Uh, and then there's nicknames that don't have a gender at all to them. I can think of some students that have nicknames that are just >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Right. >> Yeah. >> So, um, so I think on the

124staff side, training is like if a kid says, "Can you call me this nickname?" Just call him the nickname. You don't need to ask the details of why. Because if you don't know the details of why, then I don't think the law would force you to have to go tell mom and dad. Maybe you need to tell the student, hey, I'm going to call you that nickname because you asked me to. When I have parent teacher conference, I'm going to use that name when in front of your parents. So then maybe the student will self-reflect and say, no, then don't call me that. Right? But um but again there um and I think too like working with students there's going to have to be understanding of that line of like hey if we continue this

125conversation like there is some mandatory reporting I'm going to have to do. Don't say it that way. Say it in a caring and supporting way. Um and I would think that line is somewhere the law probably has not yet defined it through court cases. Uh, but I would say the law is probably somewhere um I haven't advanced their initiative. I haven't helped them with something that they're doing that their parents might disagree with. They told me something and I said, "Hey, if we continue to talk this way, I'm going to have to report." And this conversation stopped, then I would think there wasn't there's nothing to report, right? Um, the kid didn't overshare with me. the kid tested the waters and then you know realized it was too hot and so we moved on to

126something else that I'm not an attorney but he's not giving me death stairs as I >> think you have to get out of it that would be my fear because I think even by the minute that tells you I don't I don't know that there's be like a safe harbor where you can turn gently for them I think up front they need to know yes >> if we if if we hit on this at all >> this is what's going to And I think like with Eric's example of like I'm I'm getting abused at home and for this reason like we're we're calling child services because of a reported abuse >> and you're arguably one >> happen potentially but let's just say like I you know turn around time and how fast. >> Right. Like

127we're actually we've now been made aware of risk. Sure. We'll check the box. But this law potentially requiring that they know already. So, do you have to call and tell me that like to technically comply with this law that you would have to overcommunicate not keep coming back to, you know, would be nice up front, hey, here's what will happen here are notated. to which this law does not apply and you decide how to go from there. >> I like that approach. I think the difficulty is when a kid's coming in your office like a counselor's office, you don't always know exactly what they're going to share, right? So, and to put that on the front end for every kid you meet with, some of these kids might look at you like, "What the hell

128are you? Sorry, what are you talking about? Sorry, but they might be like So, I Yeah, we're gonna have to the counseling staff. We're gonna have to support them figuring out a can statement that those who know know and those who are naive just keep coming in to talk to their counselor about schedule or their interactions with peers or whatever they're coming to for Moving on then from House Bill eight see as a board occur oftent times what I see on these is discussion and that the administration doesn't have clear so I am a processed these are things that we definitely see. So I've heard some of those things particularly as we were talking about code of conduct code obviously keep coming back to training top how that goes but if there are others so

129that we know how the administration board wants doesn't us involved on that. Again, I think the House Bill 8 resources that we've provided will help manage with a number of those things that talked about at the service level, but there is going to be ongoing work. But in general, just from the student perspective, I know that we have already, this is not something about specifically, but in process of updating the anti-bullying reports that occur. So that's another take some relates overall to student safety. ball on that and then if there were other specific issues or tasks that you saw to >> I think just one other law was Collins law because I I know it applies to K12 even though it's not there's not a required training um like there is for higher ed I

130think we have policy so it's hazing um I think we have policy that maybe it falls under bullying too but I think things I year sports teams where it seems goodnatured but seniors are given special privileges that they get to make other player do like I think maybe if we kind of have some attention on that and kind of include that I think that'll be a little bit of a culture shift again not hearing of anything like horrible that you think oh my gosh this is really rising to that level but just maybe some little things that I think you think that might fall under that policy so if there's some type of inclusion in I think that comes then to more like coaching stuff or you know activities >> right there definitely are a

131policies I believe the one is associated directly with the harassment bullying intimidation there may be a separate as well under the OSB policies but I know that we definitely have the anti-hazing policies It's just enforcement, you know, it's like creating a culture where there's accountability, which means enforcing these, making sure everybody is very clear on what all these are and how it impacts them and their job um or their roles even as students and coaches. but then enforcing it, making sure we're following up on it. That's the consistency is the biggest thing that I'd like to see. We're consistent. We're not just sometimes policy, but we are always what our policy is. like the overarching issue, but like you know are there situations where we talk about and I'll put it in a manufacturing sense

132down there's been an accident You're going to convene like every plant that has a piece of machinery. You're going to let them know that this happened. We're not going to say we didn't lose. Maybe there was a serious injury or there's we're going to put enough information out there so that and then it's hey this is the bill forward either we're taking all these machines behind so we can have an engineer take a look at this. This is new gardening that's going up whatever it is. But it's that transparency and not being afraid to say like hey we have a talk about it so that we don't have a I think sometimes that can be a do that oh um you know we're so worried about getting sued that we're going to let that prioritize

133prevention or transparency. So I think probably some guidance as to when there are situations um where and it could even just be locally too that where you see over in another school district something that um but like talking about those things in an open enough way and not from a right take the people out of it more like what's the issue what's the process of improvement so that this doesn't happen again or that everybody's aware of this so that we don't find ourselves in the same position. So I think you know as a as a district how do we find that right balance so that we can have open communication at the right time rather than like mode which I don't even as an attorney I don't tend to be to find that useful situation

134I would much rather administrative level administrators are responsible for carrying that out to administrators and staff or or is that or >> and I think I think it is like the management level on down but with the board understanding that you know our priority isn't perfect our priority is you can be a good leader and that happens a long time it's what you do next time you're a good leader >> a little bit to that um James and I an exchange about psychological safety in the book um with Amy Edmonson's work and how critical the psychological safety is with knowing and precisely that we're a learning organization and not saying like oh because we're a school we're learning but every organization should be a learning organization we acknowledge like people make mistakes people are messy

135you don't know what necessarily somebody's going to do day in day out but we acknowledge it it's how we handle it and do better to go forward and you know you look at case. I think one big case is you know Volkswagen and trying so hard to meet these standards of um emission standards and uh they had a culture where it was everybody needs to perform everybody need to hit this nobody can violate we can't have any step me missteps and it it was a huge blow up they were falsifying because the people who were down below knew that things were going wrong but there was not a culture where they were any way shape or form free to raise those concerns and issues. Um, and it just really imploded for Volkswagen. Uh, when it

136was West Virginia University of all places, I think that did an emission study and they're like, "This is completely false. They falsified all of this data." Um, and so it's that that culture where people can just talk and openly because they want to support one another in being the best that everybody can do. It's installed safety. Um, your nervous system gets triggered. It's off to that defense mode. So, our our hazing and bullying policies, we have two. Neither one has been updated. Advance 2020. You guys are doing pretty well on policy team in the 2020s on your policies and you're doing really well other places that I interact with >> action plan and training by four audiences that we talked about Right. Administrators, our coaches and volunteers get lic and then students and they're going

137to be like parents. So that ideally everybody So the equal train there's at least general dies and look so that everybody's on the same page and I guess for the community and parents maybe it's I I get we have syllabus I get we have handbooks but at the beginning of the year there's like stuff that and so I get that to check the check the box and I get supposed to read it all. But in reality, like you know, we probably want to make some more easy to access when you need it for the source as opposed to being like, well, I gave you this. We're cool, right? Like the training number one. Um and then I I would like to to ask for the rest of the board to consider on this pos are

138we comfortable with or you know can Dr. Tap and team look into a little bit more on what are we able to tell students and where in the communication cycle can we tell them so that we can understand the cost that interest Yeah. So, middle school, it's one of the elective offerings. Uh well, the forced elective offerings. So, sixth, seventh, eighth grade, they have a quarter uh nineweek course of it. Then when they come to the high school, they have a semester of it. It's usually freshman or >> sophomores. Today, >> but I'm thinking at the start of the year the counselors do class. Well, all throughout the year, the counselors do classroom lessons. And so maybe at the start of the year and at the start of the semester, um, in that classroom lesson

139they're doing, they're incorporating some of this information for the kids as far as, you know, if you tell us something that's in this theme, you know, this is what we have to do, which is like mandatory reporting obligations, but then now also this house obligations that they have. So, um, so yeah, we can incorporate that. thinking on the the training. I mean, not just these topics, all the other all of our other policies. I mean, it's a pretty big task, right? In tall order. I don't know if Eric's the right person or your firm. Like, are there school best practices or consultants that have prepackaged? I mean, I don't know how much we want to spend, but it's a tall order to ask them to make all the content, all the I gota send it

140out to this all the constituents we just said. Is there something turnkey? I think we talked about that a few months ago. >> Even if it's just the materials are turnkey or just >> Yeah. They don't have to >> Let's go back and say there are turnkey like learning and education or development things you can buy including down to the the daily flash card on your safety share that you can buy. There are um it varies by for example reasonable suspicion training is a really important one that's a safety related issue as well and it's not just for bus drivers anymore reasonable suspicion training is something that your building principal should have to identify somebody's under the influence to do in response to that obviously safety issue for a variety of reasons but there are

141well canned suspicion training opportunities. I I think that's how schoolworks tries to do like the here's our training but it's not in person and so you get into the mix of all right well here we go again I'm doing another check in the box or is it something you feel like we got to put people in front of somebody >> do both right it doesn't have to be an either or >> absolutely agree and ideally that's what you're back to learn differently too. There are some people like I had somebody come up to me like I read every single tip sheet might be the only person in Ohio but congratulations right >> so unfortunately there's not one outfit that is like hey here's what we do >> and there are certain things that people can

142train on and there are things where I would be the first one to tell you that nor should you have talk about that issue >> and maybe it's something for you know discussion later with with you two if you know a particular um entities that especially when you talk about including the parents and the students and these other constituents because that's where I think okay we sent an email out that we changed board policy whatever letters PCB >> and um it was you know and if you read it I mean there's some Yeah, >> there were some real >> changes in there to the texting and all these things we've talked about tonight. And >> if people didn't read it, I mean, you don't really know. And then how do you engage those people without

143>> James and Mike and Tim and all the others in our our staff trying to like make content? If there's people that can help, I'm open to like considering something for that. So, >> it's tough. It is because you have limited time, right? And I mean teachers have a contractual work. There's contractual time that we're allowed to be with them. There's contractual time that we have for professional development. Um same thing with parents. You know parents victim of this. There are a lot of things that our school system puts on. Sounds like should make that one but um so it's tough. It's tough to roll it out. And then also maybe have a couple opportunities or community activities. I think I'd be curious to know how much of our student population like between those two

144umbrellas. It's a lot of kids. >> A lot of kids. Not everybody, but it's a lot of kids. Um there were some really good examples and it kind of goes to your point earlier which is okay, we have student handbook. what are the top 10 things we need to know and they've done it as a presentation to students as well right like we're pulling out the five 10 things like here's what we're doing I don't know when you capture them from a time perspective to be an assembly might know time for that but you could do something similar do something similar with staff where it's yeah we know that we have x y and z but here's at least five 10 things on the recurring ing here's the really important. It's not to say that

145everything else isn't important and that, you know, run a foul on others, but here's the critical mass kind of thing. >> And safety cultures, you still have the things that can get you killed in >> you have the things like they're not great, but like they're not going to namely so if I'm trying to build a safety culture like where am I going to pick first, right? And then likece we've mastered that or we built that culture and we felt good. Now we can drill it down into but if I if I present everything it's all of equal priority and importance then chances are nothing is going to stand out right and so I'm sure because you guys probably have like cardinal rules for certain things like if you do the only thing that we

146ask is like did you you know whatever did you fail to wear fall protection when you were out yes thank you you don't work here anymore right like I mean that's because we're not here to give it any context it's that important that that's how that goes. So I I I don't know what those cardinal rules are for us. I imagine that's an area of opportunity, James, to work with your team. Um and you know, but I I would love to know what their version of what are the things that really put students at the most risk particularly maybe that our our staff or volunteers might play a hand in. And then whether it's you know five to seven things now once we feel like we have a solid start on that we'll get the

147next year right but again it's difficult to do anything again things if they haven't just imagine that uh the handbook that's what it doesn't >> so much and it's like it's too much >> and because it's legislatively a lot of it legislatively prescribed I mean there's times where I'm like we don't have conversations at all about the policy like it needs like basically the Ohio general assembly is telling you this must appear in your book in these words okay next discussion because like you know whatever I think about way doesn't matter I think at the OSBA conference annually there's different you can go to some of these really dry topics. Um I think there's been some I know there was at least one on title nine and then I think there was another one on

148like public records and open meetings act and they acted it's a skit right and so it's and they they keep it safe enough that it's you know not because those things can be really really serious but they do it enough and in a way where it's it's funny but it gets the point across you know and there's maybe even you know something happens like pause and show hands or a plaque or something to like is there an issue here? What's the issue? So, it's really engaging. Sorry to bring things back, but maybe you have like a lot of joint management employee, right? So that we're making sure that we get um appropriate feedback, right, and perspective on something that's really important. Maybe there is like a a safety committee that that students and ideally I

149say that it's like we have some some really great students who appear in everything like you know how do we engage which is great but like how do we engage you know a couple kids who may not be the kid that shows up at every NHS sources of strength you know like how do we engage those other kids so that we get a complete perspective not just the perspective of one or two >> I had it for a while. >> Uh it didn't. So two years ago I ran it and then this last year it didn't run but um I have a topic here that we can we can run with. So uh yeah, we'll restore that. And then do we still do um we used to do freshman and parent orientation in the gym?

150Parents came, freshman came and it was kind of an overview of what to expect and that could be you have a captive audience that could be a place where you could highlight the top five things in your student handbook, >> right? Yep. So at the high school they have freshman orientation as like the kickoff for open house and then the rest of the night it's like a traditional open house. Um so yeah that these are components are going to be incorporated in there for sure. >> I think it's just good to think of what is the relevant way of communication for our kids today. How are they going to absorb this information? You know, they absorb information differently than we do. Yeah, there you go. [Laughter] Okay. So for me action steps are uh start

151to work with the administrative team to develop uh training plan for code of conduct and furpa. Um include in that specific elements related to the different uh groups that we've identified admin staff admin staff coaches volunteers students and then parents community. um review our reporting processes for different uh semianual and annual uh reports that have to go making sure that they're done timely and accurately. Um so there's that and then um continues to research or study the um obligations under House Bill 8 and ways to approach it in a meaningful way for students so they continue to feel supported while having our staff compliant with the expectations of House Bill 8. So I have those three sort of action but so that we can have resolution on that as close to being the school year

152as we can. I know maybe not day one but >> and I'm thinking for me the training like an overview of these training plans I'll be ready to present at the August 18th board meeting. Uh and I I will have an update on that. Um and uh so yeah, we'll get it done. I will >> I think the other two things just to consider um would be that idea of you know the safety culture can be can be talked to the various populations be it your building admins maybe the teacher union all that incorporate the safety share safety whatever we want to call it. bringing safety to top of mind for the every time we >> I think that would be after like once the school year's resumed and staff are back um they're not

153too responsive while they're enjoying the summer. >> I got it. >> But yeah, that's definitely something that can be developed. Motion to >> We have a motion to adjourn. So >> Mr. Raer, >> yes. >> Mrs. Hers, Dr. Lefay, Mrs. Hartley. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Mass. >> Yes. >> Thank you, Eric, for coming in preparation. Thank you.