001thank you well welcome everybody to the work session yes this is actually going to be our third work session so um of the same topic but just having more discussion and I will turn it over and just let you know that we do have the drawings that we've had before here and we will be projecting all the information that we'll discussed so appreciate that why again and barking Co both of my being here and we'll let Dana begin thank you again thank you gentlemen um not a lot new obviously for you tonight what we have done is our best to make the tunisians and the support space and support the gymnasiums as identical as possible in all three options so just a refresher the decision's already been made sixth grade's moving to the High School
002Junior Senior High School where does that leave Sharp Creek and how do you deal with that we developed three options none of these options are probably what you'll end up doing in the end but hopefully it's a variation of one of them taught me and this is just a way to help you make a big high level decision and then begin to drill down as we work through that so beyond that as I said we've tried to make the Junes and the support spaces all as similar as possible if you look at option one that's renovating Sharp Creek obviously with that comes the issues that go along with trying to renovate a building that you're occupying thought being you might build a gym create temporary classroom Shuffle kids around because renovate spaces at the end
003of the day we'd gain a larger cafeteria than what you currently have a larger kitchen than what you currently have a new gym the new office two new classrooms and 17 renovated classrooms and I don't know if you want to jump back into the revised costs on each option or you want to go through three options first and then come back to the costs I would we just run through the auction okay we'll do that that way so option two is tearing down Shark Creek and renovating and expanding Metro North here the notion is generally to add two classrooms to each of the three pods a preschool Wing out to the north tear down the existing kitchen fill the gym out that way with its locker rooms build a new gym on the west side
004of the existing cafeteria use that existing wear wash dressing area that was originally built for the gym expand that and move the office into that so it comes front and center whether you bring people in it clear at the south end or you take them part way up through before you bring them into the space gives you some variation in how you address the whole secure entrance thing that way nice thing about this one in my mind is it gains you now but what else I have to here in this option we end up with 12 new classrooms new gym new kitchen so as you're kind of thinking about what goes into this and what you're saying along with a lot of sight and development yeah but you would still have left over in this
005option is your existing shop Wing at the high school that is in need of some physical attention so then option three is tear down Shark Creek and add on to Northfield Junior Senior High the approach here was to tear down the existing shop classes shop areas grab the classroom on the northwest corner turn that into the office in a new entrance right there at that Corridor exit bring people in into the North we're looking at 14 new classrooms there big gym and locker rooms and then because your CTE programs have a slightly different flavor now than they did when the current building was constructed we would come down to the southwest corner and add on Space there designed toward the way AG or whatever program you guys want to introduce would be taught currently I
006think we're showing about 11 1200 square foot spaces there okay if I forget exactly that was just a placeholder to put a number on it but we could put whatever you want there I think Chris and Tim both made the comment as long as we have access to the parking lot for overhead doors we can make it work wherever you put it so that was the approach to this one um I think initially we had sort of left with the locker rooms those pink ones on the right side we had left those tucked back a little bit or pulled them around so we didn't create a isolated Courtyard in the middle but if this has worked through now a couple of iterations we've stretched that out and connected the new gym to the existing Varsity
007gym entrance so that in theory you can connect all of your PE spaces together and use them more in units in this option obviously Metro North within turning into a pk2 probably wouldn't have quite so many PK rooms as you did in the last option but kindergarten first grade and second grade commutes moving the deposit with the spare room or special needs could get split apart or however that works best for that curriculum so it's pretty high level pretty quickly through but I think you guys have looked at these and I've probably had a pretty notion of what I'm talking about so um questions yeah it's questions you always have questions I guess uh before we get to the numbers Skip by chance David this northbuilt location become the K-12 campus should we look at
008more of a master type planned even add more spaces on here that are rather than can I use the term the other day tacking on tacky phone Circle I'm not saying that's going to happen I'm not saying that's the direction we're heading but if the money is going to be spent at Northfield then Sunday metro North might be moved there as that is a frequent statement I make towards in corporations that are declining in population not knowing when that's going to level out hopefully in Plateau but I always tell them what's the last building you would abandon and it's always the high school so we begin to talk about how does a build out occur if at the end of the day you become a K-12 building now saying that some of the things you
009need to keep in mind right now you're at three Section Elementary at the point you would actually become a K-12 you might be down to a two-section Elementary at that point so the build out to extend and bring a few more classes over might not be as big as you'd think but in this situation I think you'd have to give some consideration to the smaller the kids does that same big gym space still work for them probably does the cafeteria work for them that's probably more question of both and you want to think about how you feel like that yeah so definitely I think there's real value in saying if this is the option we're considering pursuing we should take a much deeper dive into what might it look like I guess that's where I'm
010going to take a step back and build flexibility into it or at least try and have that flexibility there some kind I don't know how that would be whether it be in consideration of roof lines and extending utilities and things like that or not nope all those things are perfect you mentioned the other day I think you did that you were involved with that at Central field house no we didn't do Adam Central School Bus you guys did you made it is there a value of the field house style over adding the third gen it was at the Northfield site what would that involve it would involve more square footage and a higher higher Peak interior like uh Raptor angle it's just all a matter of what you want to do with any space more
011to heat that I didn't know if it offered something for it let's say the counter seasonal sports like football or baseball being be able to do inclement weather and practice indoors okay all those are again they're pertinent questions they're going to reason I wouldn't fit in that space there probably more to the West though you move the jump to the site plan please otherwise there we go so yes okay um the last two the more we move north and west obviously we crunch up against the softball field at some point from the cost perspective they'll move in the softball field might be more responsible than limiting how you address your emissions well certainly a field house would be more expense station you wanted to maintain a gym high temperature which they usually don't but it
012offers also that it offers something for the community too I think going through sports with four kids and living in the gyms so if you're thinking about more of a communal aspect to that facility we definitely want to complicate that from about to go so it's easier to access segregate now rather than the integral Loop just thinking you know if if you once you begin to focus on one option or the other certainly begin to drill in those things more yeah but it does come into play though if you think you could do more here than it attracts you to make the decision well that's that's where the numbers come into play what are you getting for what you're paying for part of the discussion last time was the size of the Gene and making
013sure that there was an adequate representation of that and those are the Gin that you have what was about 13 8 13 which is just a tad bigger than what a current main genes will be which would at least give you a couple extra quotes you know obviously you could go bigger if you want to act like the lab I'm not sure you need a whole lot more square footage to literally get three quarters it becomes more matter of how we start succeeding that's the seating tool maybe across one of those chords so that you can watch two of them well I I don't want to get away from the academics just they would build a chance but but you also want to get the most bang for yourself if you do this you still
014need the gym you better get material that you're going at least one of those please right not necessarily one of each is the cafeteria sufficient so it's just okay I mean I'm in the kitchen the kitchen would be sufficient I would believe we'll just saying we're not changing Factory but not adding any grade levels it's a space because they have to take down the chairs and tables after and before every lunch because there's activities and then it doesn't really give them a space when they there's bad weather outside for indoor recess and so especially at lunchtime right so an additional space of sumps or would be beneficial for and I think some of the costs that will be discussed explaining to that too as far as which round will go which route we go I'm
015not going anywhere you can call me back up and I'll turn it over today well with regards to the numbers um basically what we did on all three of them is mentioned before here we made sure that the gymnasium sides and the locker room size was consistent among all three of them um the last testing we did prior to this one uh there were there were different gym sizes and then after our discussion at the last meeting and making sure we don't under build and the desire to have 600 seats and so forth we just made sure even though the drawings may not necessarily show a 13 800 square foot gym we where they had budgeted that knowing that um whatever option you may choose to move forward with the drawings of the problems eventually
016incorporate that size of the gym so that was the main difference between um this estimate and the one we had the four um where there was a change because of a scaling issue on the drawings was the Northfield Elementary budget that number actually dropped uh because the scale on the drawings that I was originally using was smaller and I was taking off too much square footage and when I got the correct scale from Bartaco I did a complete takeoff on that school again and the square footage that was shown in the drawings actual uh numbers actually went down in terms of square footage and that's why you saw a pretty decent drop in the projected cost for the Northfield site so that's you know not to read everything I said at the last meeting those
017are the primary changes took place between the last meeting we had and what we are today it's more about 3.3 difference between option two and three so that discussion about Metro North spot but just to add space to Metro North to take care of that gym cafeteria situation you throw a figure or a square foot you could use them just to give it a little rough estimate what what are you doing there another gym uh honestly I guess I would suggest we put on another cafeteria you will use the existence space for Jim you don't need the volume it's a little cafeteria so can you just how would you you would yeah I'm just trying to think how would you add that on or you can even go to the I'm going to go to
018the South or there's room and you go to the not to the West the go to the South that's just to the South Carolina well look at this yeah 2000 feet 2000 square feet so we need yeah all right we take inside the cafeteria we take the total number of lunches served divide it by 3 can count three periods that over an hour and a half two hours to serve all the kids so that's about a hundred kids at a time to file out 15 square feet per student that's 1500 square feet Plus 500 square feet of hallway circulations you know aisle space we're around 2000 2500 square feet I was just wondering if there's a because obviously looking at where what we were going to do there if we went that option I had
019been thinking about this but I you know we're an existing locker rooms are a storage space if there would be a way because you got your or you ought to get here or when they clean all the you know the trades and all that it's right there right there's a way that you could come off to the east of there and be able to put a cafeteria in the in maybe enlarge that space is what I was getting there we could probably extend that space South to about flush with the South Wall of the existing cafeteria and get pretty close to the square footage you've learned that way we don't mess up your roof line today well that's right yeah I just didn't want something you don't want to get in the weeds too much
020but just to give that's one thing that we wanted to try to help to set up that situation so whatever right 350 square foot two thousand square feet so that's 700 000. well I mean you have to add on um contingencies design fees to soft costs which is about 50 Factor so if you're 750 000 with 1.5 all in costs about one one one two that sounds better right because you're about two classrooms and anymore I think your classrooms right around a half million dollars there's a 3.3 million dollar difference between option two and three so I was trying to listen on Facebook but probably so you asked that question about Field House what was the answer not a lot of the difference right I don't know there'd be a whole lot of square footage
021difference we've done it two or three really three-quart field houses where we squeezed 500 600 seats in they pull across maybe the end court but the middle court then becomes the one that you use for a competition or program or whatever and what size try to remember that I gotta pull off lockerings and the things that Quake wrestling rooms and stuff that got stuck onto the end of them but 100 70. it's just one of those things I always thinking about thank you do this and then oh I wish well that's obviously probably cheaper now to put another 40 feet on than the kind of six years down the road and put 40 feet on it so it's which was my point you at this point you're trying to get to where are we are
022we going to renovate Sharp Creek are we going to expand Metro North or are we going to expand Northfield it's not going to look like what I showed you I can promise you that because you'll think of a lot of other things as you're working through this that might tend to tweak the way things get put together or it actually gets included I think last time we talked about 14 classrooms in the Northfield option it's really possible that somehow apart music for the elementary become an adjunct to existing art music and Junior High in high school well now I don't necessarily need rooms in the elementary for that but you might have some other use in the elementary you might want to develop it their own Media Center rather than use the existing one we'll
023have a lot of conversations like that and those will all be different depending on which option so there's a number of growth as far as this I know some of this last paper has a cost forward which that was just an option that was added mostly because about the town where you would put the program well that's what I was just been an option so a new playground as we get into that yeah 200 000 allowance do they use the playground studies yeah probably is more of a black top area [Music] is yeah monkey bars [Music] foreign [Music] probably from the beginning I've always thought about what we look like in 20 years so that's why I my head just keeps pushing towards the north of allows you because I like you said usually the
024last thing we eliminate is the high school it's not like we're increasing the population even if we don't if we stay stagnant then we're still safe I feel like the other way to push all those classrooms there and then you did go down and you're like you still have to keep up those those activities it's not a choice at that point the apartment with facilities I wish I'd be part of the academic explained in the dirty gauges and the community feeling towards these are student ages of buildings that's why I have thought about with the north there was if we did go that option we have to figure out almost a way to make sure that's its own building you know treated as its own building you know we enter in a different you know
025its own way obviously a cafeteria issue that thing is going to have to be through you know obviously they're going to walk through the hallways of Garfield but we're gonna have teachers with them at that point how they're scheduling would fit for that cafeteria period because that's the only time I ever see it being anything crossed out there not very many times but obviously the auditoring when they that's the advantage of that too having um that's event it's already Advantage there if this would be a model that would be South also that obviously would help them a lot too but have the auditorium even though like we discussed so much when I'm still the size of it still doesn't take care of everything but it's still a lot better than what we have on a
026smaller Elementary gyms does it help Staffing anyway Mr great compelling Elementary teachers you know approximity to a junior high classroom you'll share it you'll be able to share more specials or your electives those teachers go into the studio and you guys have talked behind before having the older kids with the little kids in our in our community is always it's fun center people typically get nervous and think about all of the bad things but so many of our kids volunteered in the read they become interns they spend time with the little kids instead of and then with the sharing of custodial staff and sharing with other administrative staff it's hard to predict what that looks like and so there's more details carved out but it certainly wouldn't hurt it certainly would put us there we've
027heard on the parent side too that the convenience of that too our students at a location that's not why we do it but yeah that's just another positive I mean for us how many students are like the Juniors and seniors how many of them are like student teachers or you know Casey neiston has a pretty good selection I want to say she has five out of the ten maybe they go down there and I'm sure that fluctuates but right now it's a bit of a interesting it's a bit of a car driven much more often use that so if it was something they could do for one period rather than the student you want to pick up some more and you might have other teachers English teachers social studies teachers that might incorporate more of
028that if it's so can a student teacher or a student classified basically what we usually hire as players professionals well I just I don't know I it would be the same option well I'm just but I know we have to hire them all the time we're usually it seems like we're always looking for it certainly provides support services where they where they go now so I just didn't know that can substitute if we ever were in lag if there's students can kill that Gap it's on the timing of their classes of the classes they have and the gay issues that you be covered and evident a would give you all that coverage insurance my personal I know it costs more I like the idea of the separate book with the kids I don't know you
029know you have parents say well it's nice to have them all in the same building you still got k-32 down here anyway [Music] that's going to change as the kick grows no matter where you're at if you have two or three chisels they'll teachers apart that's they're going to be different buildings so I don't base a lot on that I just like the idea of the younger kids being a group more so it also leaves you an option to Northville to to put on a field house or simply growing through population all of a sudden you've done that you've looked at yourself you're still going to have two buildings how are you gonna that's just those are things I think have there's needs of both places you know cafeteria gym area when you ever see
030that's been kind of discussed a little bit would they ever see the bill having just one campus though nothing nothing that's cool I don't know I don't know well old school it's old school for us but knowledgeable for other schools like the raw spills and the castings and the prayer and all those schools that have a they basically just have one campus but to do that you're going to have to add on a lot more there you're gonna have to add on another Metro North there right yeah no I'm just saying down all right and again I don't want the spirit of math on that for that scenario like my brain just keeps going 20 years that's where I always have to be collaborate them but that is a big decision because if you go
031one way or the other that will possibly limit that future 20 year third year um so have you guys heard anything I mean ever has anybody said anything anybody personally you're doing it in front of my family no yeah yeah actually anybody that's part of our School District Individual that was concerned about keeping the kids separate at those ages as long as they were separate they're good and that's the same thing we talked about last year when we talked about how we were going to do the configuration of our pre-k through eighth grade that discussion actually changed a lot when we said there are positives out there too positives of having those students closer but they would definitely be on their own schedule they would be in their own rooms like California earlier like it's
032not like they're in the past hallways if they're doing very often at all and they're probably the teachers the world of war once in the teachers just because a 45-minute period for a high school kid that just doesn't Translate very different so they would be segregated or isolated or whatever you want to say a lot you chose that option sure precautions so they beat 0.5 8.4 it's more than the North Bill oh more than that it's just one door choices well that's 5.1 difference from the metrics probably recommendations from Architects or construction maintenance probably will be just like we said option one would not be considered considered at all right it's a lot of money on this one if you're if the Northfield option is one you want to seriously consider I might suggest you
033reach out to East Allen officials they've only they brought a six to their junior Highs at Woodland and their Heritage about five or six years ago so they've got a pretty fresh understanding of what that means and how their communities accepted it um I do know that at Heritage the elementary students eat in a in the gym they have their separate Little Gym and they eat there at Woodland the kids literally marched the length of the building to go to the cafeteria you said East Allen right so those are K to 12 campuses are K-12 we just moved up the k6 to make it then they moved the k6 to the junior senior senior cases he said about five or six years ago I think we would want to build to do that to accommodate
034both of them did yeah not unlike what you're looking at here several they might have some relevant what it meant for curriculum how they function throughout the day if they had it to do again how would they do it different versus the folks who have like a castle you've been kicked 12 since day one in Rossville Japan is the one that I talked to when we had this concerns last year and you know he was willing for us to put people on the bus and go take a little field trip if anybody wanted to so I'm sure we would offer that again today since that to take with their kids from Lafayette to Rossville so that was an indication that there's there's some strength that goes along with me he starts being Pre-K and you
035just walked in the building and you go out the other room yeah yeah I mean the main thing is they liked the school Episcopal District but it felt so positive they also you know thought it was positive that so um well I think we're in it I think either way we're in a win-win situation but choose enough to Overlander well I've I've been if we went the Northfield idea you know even what I thought was you know if we would would go with the new high school last year is Heartland careers Center always struggles or they they don't have space for short space and so I you know thinking about how we could help subsidize that space you know in our area there at Northfield you know either adding on because those two rooms that
036we were talking about um or we just use that space as you know for space for Heartland because they think they have at least the nursing program they don't know you were saying that they were planning on putting on two to three classrooms if we could but there again that runs into other school districts what they're what they want to spend that kind of money do that you know we got a eight million dollar upgrade to get the facilities just up up to snow and then that's without adding in classrooms you know a couple years ago that's all we were worried about was adding classrooms now we're looking at well let's get to heat the ventilation HVAC and all that stuff correct before we do this so I don't know how you're going to get
037other schools to add more money for that kind of work it's going to be pulling teeth to get the rest of them although I was I was getting that we paid for it right I guess like they were doing with the problems you can get enough credit money there's Flawless with the whole equipment because the building costs too much or that they have that whole building because I'd like to get the Ag Department from Portland out there I follow what you're saying that I would you know if we're not gonna we're taken away a little bit I'd like to get it so we can maybe strengthen some of that area is there any kind of support the support from that AG area can we run into any kind of restrictions on doing something like that
038building spaces releasing back or whatever I don't think so I mean I understand we would have to definitely we have to definitely investigate that right yeah how the money for the board have you guys heard of anything like that before as far as they do that right now a lot of schools they don't have necessarily they have you know their their programming is different high schools go for different things so I'm sure that there are there are setups like that I don't know how the monies are transferred and how that all works but um you know Huntington for example they have their own they come to us they pay you know those they pay it per diem and then also they go to other school districts for other programs and so there has to be
039some agreement that's worked out I just don't know what that is but we haven't been involved because it did not hurt on the rent the space from Wabash so there hadn't been something there was some sort of agreement there I don't know but that was kind of connected with like yeah so we were kind of used to Ivy Tech's canvas which was that but that's no longer there so correct me but if we if we fund car on building space it's around 38 because MSD based off the current Formula now yes so it's all based off the cessified widgets or it could be more could be less it's around 38 right now to a lower Rift yeah because it's God's point you know if you're building space and you want to build aggressively that's the
040wrong term if you want to build huh yeah it's been a little bit above appropriately okay you're already paying for 40 of it if it's built someplace else why not build it on your farm it makes sense the difficulty you would have who's in charge of those kids is it a separate is it going to come through our principles who's going to talk those kids off what what are they going to come in so okay how does kids get ancestors so they get dropped off at Heartland and Heartland takes about that so it would be this because they don't so does Heartland pay Manchester or do you know no that's just part of Heartland Portland but one thing I do know is though for the Honeywell uh that equals that is a program we have
041and Heartland does pay for that so there is and I'm not going to say that I think I know what it is but I don't know I don't know I just know that's why they're they're going over there there's an agreement that's made between there's a him I think they only go up there once a week once a week yeah but you'll see it or though they go there you go a day like this and there is they do there's a rent for that yes that's that's my only ideas I think number one we're we're kind of trash in the Ag Department out there if we do that correct but I so I like the facility part of it but well but I'm just saying I'd like to see if we can strengthen it somehow
042yeah in a different area because certainly I think does a great job with that stuff but I like to support it somehow maybe giving them an additional space it's an idea that that's if that's what we if that's what's Chosen and read upon to investigative one because really after we start talking about that yeah there has to be something because it happens everywhere so um and just like we said Eagles Theater there is a payment there's a payment probably right off that same formula right see what that is but they get a lot of bang for their Buck because they get all the state of the yard of everything yeah at least the technology now but yeah questions Dave do you see prices escalating as much as they think do we see any plateauing do
043we see any kind of levels the first part of the year um on a monthly basis it's been about 0.15 but the last two months it's been 0.5 of 1 so we've actually seen a little bit of a spike the last two months we're waiting to get August's indexes um but there is still uh you know that probably that three to six percent escalation every year that we're that we're anticipating now so yeah we don't necessarily see things leveling level or declining we still see a little bit of a tick going on are we still at the very highest level or are we down a little bit from where it spiked earlier well we we've tracked cost indexes all the way back to 1990. okay and there's one year where it actually went negative it
044was 2008 and it went down like 0.9 percent every year since then it's either leveled off or it's gone off so we have still Peak yeah I don't see your I don't think you're gonna ever see a big deal the cost it's a matter of how much is it going to go up purchase of the money is more of my concern Ed it's we're still historically low but yet we're higher right at least we were last on interest rates yes I don't know those are we had the graduates last year it's kept moderated well I'm saying historical like 100 years ago yeah not for five but for more trades right no well what do you mean from us they have a decision of some kind of Rights rather than keep going around in a circle
045like we always do we'll wait for what do you want to learn next we're going to think about this and have questions we'd love to do this we could wait three or four months before we get started on it so we'll get back yeah is there still a timing issue on when you want to sell bonds and all that kind of good stuff so we're going to be selling bonds for our current projects that we don't come up here within the next month or so but we would like to sell once again in [Music] for a bigger project but part of now when we start depends on when you want to take the bonds out in 2024 and get us but I won't speak for Dana but if that's something you want to do why
046they do their next year we probably need to get a role in there well and we need to do it too though we have Steve and Tony here too and you know we do have things that we need to decide because we're Sharp Creek and some things that need to be done and so yeah that's fair yeah right well to prepare and just to make sure that we can keep continuing the HVAC going and things like that right Christine that's right okay yeah did a great job with all that though but cannot continue or maybe a lot larger advantages so yes you would like um encourage the board too but all of us to make the decision found out in early spring installer in late summer early fall both so from the time we did
047ask those questions earlier yeah this is 2024 yes we'll get some shovels out and we'll listen yeah so we'll make a decision here shortly and that can happen Play Somewhere That's 12 of us no pressure we've been talking about a long time all right well we have another meeting coming up here thank you okay thank you again we'll stay in touch shutting her down