001[music] >> Hello Ashland there's a new podcast in town the Bad Girls Guide to Town Government it's of the people by the people and for the people it's an opportunity for citizens to express themselves on their own terms and it takes place right here at WACATV and we call the information parlor. Today's two hosts are Julianne Ardell and Kate Churchill. Okay. I also want to give a nod though to our unofficial permanent host Jim Hannah. He was the original bad girl on the first conversation we had a name tag which I think we should bring back because he reminds us all that it's okay to stand up and have different opinions. I am sure Jim would have had okay so before we talk about today's exciting topics we're going to start with what we call
002up beat corner something good that's happened in town Kate would you like to talk about that? >> I would love to cuz the comprehensive plan started a little bit maybe even over two years ago a comprehensive plan steering committee finished up their work with the consultant the committee unanimously voted to accept the plan it went on to another round of approvals which I'm very happy about and several so nobody's asking you to not understand what you're voting for went to a joint meeting of the planning board and select board which they did vote for so the final approval is on to fall town meeting there it's on the town website I specifically on the up beat corner also want to shout to Yolanda cuz the last chance of a draft before it was approved, Yolanda
003had a forum on every single topic, invited the public. There were lots of questions and the the last final thing I can say about that is when the public's involved, it always brings something new and makes it better. And even in those final forums, there were proposed edits by people asking questions or really I think it'd be better said a different way and all those edits were accepted by the consultant and the committee. So, kudos to the public for turning out. We would have loved more, but it was still not insignificant to have at the very last chance. So, look for that at town meeting and I'm excited about it. It's a blueprint for the future. It can be changed if we decide to go different directions, but it's a good starting point. Okay, great.
004And something else we're going to tell Well, actually we did it last time. Inspirational quotes. So, I have two that are related. The government is a us. We are the government, you and I. And that was Theodore Roosevelt, who was our our 26th president and who I did a book report on in I think it was second grade. He started the National Park System and Antiquities Act. And then uh in a democracy, the highest office is the office of citizen. Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter. And I really love that quote because we have a an org chart somewhere in town. I've got it somewhere I pile of stuff. And on the very top above everyone is town meeting. And I think we forget how important or people want us to forget, um how important the
005citizens actually are in a setup ours. And I think it's also when if you want to complain about something, but you're not doing something, it's a reminder to us as citizens that we have to do our part. Yeah. Um people I think sometimes feel a little nervous about speaking up when it I feel it's your civic duty to speak up. And I think that needs to be promoted more more. All right. So, for our topics today, we have We're just going to briefly review what we talked about last time with those questions asked at the ZBA ZBA meeting about the What do you call it? 1060 Main Main Street uh 40B project. And the questions were mainly unanswered even though it was supposed to be a forum for answering questions. And they posted some. Maybe
006you can talk about that. It It looks like it was a PDF from So, the some kind of PDF We talked about our first conversation how very disappointing that meeting was, and since then I've talked to other members of the public who were just very very disappointed the way that was handled, um including people that lost children to Nyanza who were in that room. And it did I don't think that was the intent, but given the way it was marketed and produced, it did feel disrespectful in my opinion. So, I did go on cuz my Not all my questions were asked that evening, and I I do understand timing, but I think it could have been managed much differently. And uh I One of my questions was if it was answered, the answer does not
007agree with what is said on the state website. So, I did resubmit them. I would encourage everyone to go look at if they submitted questions, go look at the answer and see if it was answered something that makes sense to you. And if not, I would resubmit them. Um I don't know that we're hopefully there's a another forum to kind of make right what happened >> Mhm. and get answers to people, but I don't know. But at least encourage people to go see if your question's answered. Now, I have a question about the questions. Um were are were some of these questions that weren't answered at the original question session, were they then subsequently answered by the EPA DEP people? Is that obvious from what's up there? >> know. In fact, that was one of
008my follow-up questions, who answered it? Because it wouldn't make sense that a state body would answer in something in conflict with with something on the state website. Mhm. >> So, I did ask also who answered this because it it was not clear. Okay. >> Yeah, and I think I think just you would want to know that as asking a question, getting a clear answer. Well, um briefly back to the quite bizarre our set up meeting. I mean, instead of just letting people get up and ask their questions and getting them answered live, now it's this whole convoluted posting them, trying to get the people that were actually sitting here, who came here to answer the questions, after about 20 minutes of question and answering, even though they had hardly touched on any of the questions,
009um they left. And now there's this perhaps weird scrambling. And this is the kind of thing that uh it's it just comes across as extraordinarily inefficient, wasted of time, and uh we had pleaded before the meeting to please just do it regular. So, I I again, I don't know I don't know how these things happen. So, anyways, my question my first question wasn't answered at all. In In fact, none of my questions were really answered. There was some sort of something at the end, but uh it it it it's almost as if it is answering a completely different question. So, I'm going to In fact, I'm going to right now I live re-submit it. questions. Okay. All right. So, our next topic is we're going to talk about town meeting. Not so much what's on
010the warrant, but the overall structure of it. How does it look? How does it feel? Are people happy when they leave? Are they upset? Annoyed? Um So, uh there there's so many things we could talk about. So, is there something you would like Oh, oh, we also want to make sure we talk about the framing amp holders. So, the town meeting I mean I grew up in New England, so I have that history. It's been it really was the start of democracy, and we cannot say that town meeting I think is perfect democracy. We know the ways people can be left out. Our town is doing a great job of dealing with one of them by having child care. Mhm. Um there there's I believe it's Wayland is lobbying the state about having a remote
011participation, which means if you're away for work, you might be able to call in. But, in the meantime, we could do more. And I And I'll leave it open to you to say more, but I I I guess along that lines, so we could I think allow remote questions, which isn't the same as remote voting. Our town could move forward with some things to make it uh more available to people, cuz that's one of the big complaints we hear from people just in general. Right. Uh I think I would I to talk about um Well, I I can grade it. I think I would I would grade the town. Okay. I think the organization by the town clerk's office is good. There's occasional some backups. I always get there early, so I have never personally
012experienced backup. So, I think I would give that a B plus. The delivery of the town meeting, I think I would give a D plus. Uh it is not welcoming. It it is And in in fact, because uh the we there is a citizen's petition on there, a group of us I think I don't know what it was. Must have been. No, it was during COVID. I think it was 2024 or 2023, um we created a warrant article, and it was in the spring, so you only need 10 people to sign it, but you want to get more like 15. We can talk about the specifics more. And because when I first moved to town, it was such a joy to go to town meeting. You could get up and talk as long as you
013needed to, and nobody ever abused it. And there were always people in line, and they were happy and laughing. And then that changed. I think it was 2017. Not sure the exact date. But they decided that we could only speak for 60 seconds. That was version one. Well, by the time you got up and you said your name and your town, you could barely say anything before you were cut off by this timer that seemed to get bigger and then it became giant. And then I think the next town meeting they made it 90 seconds, but honestly, you cannot say anything substantive in 90 seconds. It's It's really hard. And then So, we changed it that it would be 3 minutes. And we didn't say anything about the second minute. Without We didn't say anything
014about people not being able to come up a second time. So, for some reason, you can now get up for your 3 minutes, but now you can't get up a second time, which I don't know about you, but >> Well, so I I don't understand this because town meeting is the legislative body of the town and it's very important in New England town government and unless we change our form of government, it should be taken seriously and I feel like the time limit So, I I did read a bunch of people um the League of Women Voters in like Stowe area, they studied um all those area towns and a lot of them do have a limit and they they were trying things to encourage more participation. They did They didn't promise that. The participation
015didn't really change. So, participation in government in general, that's one of the reasons we're doing this podcast, is a problem. So, I I think especially with the citizen petition increased to 12 3 and unless we hear people saying I really want 4 or 5 or 10, I'm I'm kind of okay with that to try that as if people have a perception that it's smoother. Um but I think the unwelcoming I think there's so many ideas that we could try. Um, sometimes there are complicated articles, and the way I feel like it's often presented is like Oz, like or this is Oz, the great Oz is telling you what it should be. Exactly. >> And I I'm not even saying that's wrong, but it I feel like that perception isn't great. And I I was reading
016some other things we could do is if you had a like a third-party document, like a knowledgeable resident that was speaking about it. It takes it away from a power structure of like town government, um, separated from the people, cuz I I know that people work hard in town not to make, uh, like a separation that it's enemies, which it's not, but it still is a power structure. Let's be real, right? There's a power structure of town government. And so, if town government doesn't offer the same kind of venues for people to have their voices heard, that's where there's the problem. So, I I know we hear a lot that us them. No, this is not about us them, but it is acknowledging a power thing, and some things that you might be able to
017do at town meeting to make that not feel that way. Yeah, I definitely people should be able to get up twice. And I don't care if it takes two nights. And honestly, when we could speak as long as we wanted, instead of this weird militant set up with this gigantic clock ticking in your face, um, we almost never went to a second night. I almost feel like all these maneuvers to keep us from speaking are actually making it more cumbersome. It it it actually reminds me of the ZBA meeting. You know, this weird muffling of everybody's voices. Um, I It's like they're trying to keep us from saying something. And I'd like to know, what is it and why be involved in town government if you want to muffle people's voices? I think you need
018to think about is this really the right fit for me? Because it's it's it's the people's night. Town meeting is the people's night. And if the people are wearing basically a a muzzle, >> [snorts] >> I I don't see how they can be all that effective. Well, and I think that that's that's a good point. We talked about efficiency and democracy is not efficient. It it just isn't. And yet that's what we believe in that in the United States, certainly in our town. And certainly people when they are involved can probably start seeing how that's really really important, right? Citizens being participating. And so right, if you want to try to manage the public to such a way that you think it's efficient, it's really becomes I mean a turn-off anyway, if not undemocratic. You
019know, it's like are we bunch of cattle that need to be managed? I mean, it's it's just quite strange. And so I actually took the time and I watched Holliston's most recent because they have a new moderator, someone I'm acquainted with. And I really encourage people to watch our town meeting and watch any other town. And it was it just started out with welcome, glad you're here. And they had a pretty good crowd. If you listen to ours, it's don't do this and don't do that and if you do that and we can't do this and do and there's comments about bullying and it was sometime before COVID. I felt like I had been bullied at town meeting. They They people up front were actually like I felt like I was the brunt of somebody's
020joke. So, I did and this is something important for town meeting because I think part part of this show podcast show um for me anyways is about people taking their own power back instead of just giving it away and then, you know, just obediently going along with these really bizarre tactics. So, there's something you can say called point of order. I don't know that a lot of people know that, but if there's something going on with the structure of the town meeting or you feel like you're being bullied or some crazy thing you don't feel is right, you stand up in your seat and you got to yell pretty loud, "Point of order." And then the moderator will say, "Come on down." And then you go to the mic and I've probably used it I
021don't know, four times. And I've seen a couple other people use it, but I think a lot of people just don't know that it's a tool that you can use. So, and I think that's one of the thing on the on the podcast. Like how how can people prepare, right? So, we do have um typically town government has a forum about the warrant articles. Sometimes it's really tight to the meeting, so I'm not sure you'd have a chance to really study the issue, which is why I like the idea of having um a presentation at town meeting about them. I also think we need to somehow get to the point of having a pro and con. You get that when there's ballot questions. Um Okay. All right, so my mother lives in another town and
022the town I grew up in and they get this really thick warrant. It's mailed to their house. It's beautiful. And what's awesome about it is it has everything in it that you need. It also has arguments in favor, arguments opposed. They actually take a lot of time to do this. And we used to have a little bit more in our warrant and then I it was sometime I want to say 2015 they decided to take things out of the warrant. This is actually called article. They took things out of the warrant and they put them in this so-called budget book. So, the first meeting everybody, including the finance committee was looking for the budget book. They were looking for the information and it was like quite frankly an Abbott and Costello routine. It's like who's
023on first? Where's the budget? And then it was announced, "Oh, well we didn't make any copies." So, this information that was supposed to help us was nowhere to be found. And now we've got the uh continued stripped down version. Uh the last one was a little bit longer than normal, but most of them are about 45 pages. This one is uh pages. Um And again, it's all part of a how much do you care about town meeting? It's supposed to be our legislative body. We can't speak. The warrant is stripped down and then sometimes I'm sorry, maybe it's cuz I'm a writer, but there's just so many typos that you're just reading it and last time I think I I sent the moderator a whole bunch of typos that I found and it's like it's
024not even long, dude. You know, spell check. Some of these would have been caught by spell check. So, and I guess bring up now I as I recall, I think we're a little bit getting away from printing anything. So, that's a reminder to people going to a town meeting that you have to bring a device, right, to to um read it, which I I'm all for saving paper, although I'm old school and like the paper, but that probably has to be make sure you're prepared with a device to read the word articles. Mhm. And while I'm talking about it, I'd like to mention again, cuz my my mother lives there, she gives me all this stuff. Uh I think it was a year or two ago Wayland started this paper called the Wayland Packet List.
025And uh they they fundraise for it. So, it's not coming out of anybody's budget that I know of. And they got an editorial board, advertising, and it's really fantastic because it's like a a mini version of what all the papers used to be when they were actually What's that word? The fourth estate? Yeah. When they were actually acting with the fourth estate and they were they were called uh they were some I I think it's one of the big papers is democracy dies in the dark. >> Washington Post. Yeah, but you know, but the papers were a way for us to even talk about war and articles or a ballot initiatives by writing letters to the editor and everybody read it. And now So, anyways, it's just fantastic. And they give you all kinds of
026information. I think it comes out every other week. It might be every week, but it's every other week. And it is I just kudos to them. Cuz it's fantastic. I I don't know what their budget is. Um oh, do you want to mention this Framingham thing before you forget? Cuz they they don't have town meeting anymore, but they have So they went to a city government with counselors, but I definitely applaud them because there's a ballot question coming from the counselors, which would be like our citizens petition to have more citizen involvement in the budget. And what they don't want to happen, which is typically what we see is at the end we vote. Do we accept the budget or not? But we don't have input going into the budget. Uh the departments do, town
027government does, but citizens don't. So that is the actual ballot question to have early on citizens participate in budget before it gets voted on. And I think Ashland could easily improve our process, migrate to something like that as well. Um it's we could bring it to the select board if and I think they're pretty open-minded. If they don't want to do it, somebody could do a citizen's petition. But it's it's so vital for the citizens to have a say in the budget when it starts. What happens with us is a bunch very small group of people um decide where everything's going to go. And then by the time you get to town meeting, and of course our we'll be talking about finance at the next the next public cast conversation. Um because without a film
028finance committee, we are like the only town that doesn't have one. Cuz I can watch them in every town but this one. And I've asked for years, and I don't know why they want to keep us in the dark. Again, democracy dies in the dark. Uh so the budget by the time you get to town meeting, it's too late. I can get up and say, "What does this mean?" or "I don't like that." or whatever, but is there even a mechanism to change the budget? No, I think we'd have to just vote down typically the whole thing. >> thing. It's it it's really a crying shame that the people who are paying for it, and the people who are supposedly at the top of this structure, again, once again, are sitting there powerless because of
029the way this thing's designed. And again, people have great ideas and I'm actually going to segue into that uh before I forget. Um because we call this the information parlor because the people, citizens, have a right to share information. It's again, I think it's your civic duty to spend some time finding information, whether it's for town meeting or select board meeting or ZBA meeting or the town meeting. And I write the selectmen when I think there's something that needs to be said. And one thing I noticed, again, it I believe it was in the Wayland paper that my mother gave to me. Um we had one one Ashland municipal aggregation rate. And it got so high that it was actually higher than Eversource. And so I wrote them and I gave them a link. I
030explained that I think Wayland has four different choices. I think it was four. And that why don't we have four different choices, especially when it's getting expensive? So I was very happy to read um that we have now moved to three choices. Um there's standard, optional, and optional grain. Standard, optional basic, and optional grain. So, you can go as low as 0.13, which is going to help people because, you know, it's it's a little crazy out there with all everything from your homeowner's insurance to your car insurance to your food to everything. Which is why I think that program's great because there there was one that you're specifically paying more to get more renewables. And people in an economic position to do that may choose to do that. But if they're not, they have a
031chance to get a lower rate. Okay. Uh if people saw our first conversation, heard our first conversation, um because this is something too. We started a list of bad girl rules and uh eventually uh we'll probably publish them. But I'm just going to write down one. Uh Bad girls share information. Um it sometimes So, along with that sharing information, I I think we probably have time. So, the town I grew up in um I'm I'm not sure if there's something specific going on, but someone published um on a social media something I think is pretty would you could substitute um Ashland here. Our town's future is being shaped right now, and we cannot afford to sit on the sidelines. And that's right now, it's always. Decisions made by our elected officials affect our schools, our
032neighbors, our safety, our quality of life. If we want real change, we must demand it. This is a critical moment. Too often leaders make choices that don't reflect the will of people simply cuz they are ignoring us. That ends today. I call on every resident to step up and take action. I'd like to read this cuz I think they're very simple and easy. Speak out, attend select board meetings, write letters, make calls, let your voice be heard. Organize, talk to your neighbors, this sharing information. Build a collective presence that cannot be ignored. Hold officials accountable, remind them who they work for. This is one of my favorite parts and that silent is not consent because we often hear that well, we don't hear from people so they think it's on the right track. Maybe it
033is, maybe it's not. Hold officials accountable. Vote. Your vote is your power, use it every local election, attend every annual meeting including the special town meeting. Change doesn't come from the top down, it starts with us. Together we can make sure our leaders listen, respond, and lead in a way that reflects the true will of the community. Let us rise, speak, and act. Our town needs us now more than ever. So, I would argue I don't know if there's a particular issue, I would argue that's certainly in these economic times and things that are going on. We've also heard about possibly an override would be making sure that people's voices get heard. >> Yeah, we're going to talk about um So, I just want to end this conversation, conversation number two, by just again letting
034citizens out there know that if you want to be a co-host on the show, uh you can contact us at [email protected] or find me on Facebook or Kate, thank you for having you. And you know, it's a good opportunity for you to come and talk about some issue. Might be the schools, might be trash, I don't know. I don't know what it is, but I think the more we get our voices heard in an arena where we are making the rules uh is is really a plus because in fact, we really need to again keep taking back our power. It's our town meeting, it's our town, it's our it's our this or that or whatever it is. So. Well, thank you for again allowing me to be a co-host on conversation two and I I
035would again encourage anyone to join and talk about issues you care about in town. And it's fun. It's fun. It's fun, folks. This is really, really fun. >> TV. Yeah. Yes, thank you Rock on TV. And we will see you in a couple weeks for conversation number three.