001Hello Ashlanders. There's a new podcast in town. The Bad Girls Guide to Town Government. It's of the People, by the People, and for the people. It's an opportunity for citizens to express themselves on their own terms and it takes place right here at WACA TV in what we call the information parlor. Today's two hosts are Julian Ardone. >> I also want to give a nod though to our unofficial permanent host Jim Hannah. He was the original bad girl. Um the first conversation we had a name tag which I think we should bring back >> because he reminds us all that it's okay to stand up and have different opinions. >> I am sure Jim would love that. Um okay so before we talk about today's exciting topics uh we are going to start with what
002we call upbeat corner something good that's happened in town. Kate, would you like to talk? >> Um, I would love to because the comprehensive plan started um a little bit maybe even over two years ago. The comprehensive plan steering committee finished up their work with the consultant. The committee unanimously voted to accept the plan. It went on to another round of approvals, which I'm very happy about, several. So, nobody's asking you to not understand what you're voting for. went to a joint meeting of the planning board and select board which they did vote for. So the final approval is on to fall town meeting. >> Um there it's on the town website. I specifically on the upbe also want to shout out to Yolanda because the last chance of a draft before it was approved.
003Yolanda had a forum on every single topic invited the public. there were uh lots of questions and the the last final thing I could say about that is when the public's involved it always brings something new and makes it better and even in those final forums there were proposed edits by people asking questions or really I think it be better said a different way and all those edits were accepted by the consultant in the committee so kudos to the public for turning out we would have loved more but it was still not insignificant to have at at the very last chance. So, look for that at town meeting and I'm excited about it. It's a blueprint for the future. It can be changed if we decide to go different directions, but it's a good starting
004point. >> Okay, great. And uh something else we're going to do, well, actually, we did it last time. Inspirational quotes. So, I have two that are related. The government is us. We are the government, you and I. And that was Theodore Roosevelt who was our 26th president and who I did a book report on in I think it was second grade. He started the national park system and the antiquities act. And then uh in a democracy the highest office is the office of citizen. Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter. And I really love that quote because we have a a an org chart somewhere in town. I've got it somewhere I pile of stuff and on the very top above everyone is town bathing. And I think we forget how important or people want us to
005forget um how important the citizens actually are in a setup like ours. And I think it's also when if you want to complain about something but you're not doing something, it's a reminder to us as citizens that we have to do our part. >> Yeah. Um people I think sometimes feel a little nervous about speaking up when it I feel it's your civic duty to speak up >> and I think that needs to be promoted for more. All right. So for our topics today, we have we're just going to briefly review what we talked about last time were those questions asked at the ZB ZBA meeting about the what do you call it 10 to 60 >> Main Street uh 40B project and the questions were mainly unanswered. even though it was supposed to be
006a forum for answering questions and they posted some maybe you can talk about that. It it looks like it was a PDF from so the >> some kind of PDF >> we talked about in our first conversation how very disappointing that meeting was and since then I've talked to other members of the public who were just very very disappointed the way that was handled. um including people that lost children to Nyanza were in that room and it did I don't think that was the intent but given the way it was marketed and produced it did feel disrespectful in my opinion so I did go on because my not all my questions were asked that evening and I >> I do understand timing but I think it could have been managed much differently and I I
007one of my questions was if it was answered the answer does not agree with what is said on the state website. So, I did resubmit them. I would encourage everyone to go look at if they submitted questions, go look at the answer and see if it was answered >> something that makes sense to you. And if not, I would resubmit them. Um, I don't know that we're hopefully there's a another forum to kind of make right what happened >> and get answers to people, but I I don't know. But at least encourage people to go see if your question was answered. Now, I have a question about the questions. Um, were are were some of these questions that weren't answered at the original question session, were they then subsequently answered by the EPA, D people?
008Is that obvious from what's up there? >> I don't know. In fact, that was one of my followup questions. Who answered it? because it wouldn't make sense that a state body would answer something in conflict with with something on the state website. >> So I did ask also who answered this because it it was not clear. >> Yeah. And I think I think just you would want to know that as asking a question getting a clear answer. >> Well um briefly back to the quite bizarre setup of the meeting. I mean, instead of just letting people get up and ask their questions and getting them answered live, now it's this whole convoluted posting them trying to get the people that were actually sitting here who came here to answer the questions. After about 20 minutes
009of question answering, even though they had hardly touched, don't ask me the questions. Um, they left. And now there's this perhaps weird scrambling. And this is the kind of thing that >> uh it's it just comes across as extraordinarily inefficient waste of time and I we had pleaded before the meeting to please just do it >> regular. So I again I don't know I don't know how these things happen. So anyways my question my first question wasn't answered at all. In fact, none of my questions were really answered. There's some sort of something at the end, but it it it's almost as if it is answering a completely different question. So, I'm going to in fact I'm going to right now live reubmit questions. Okay. All right. So, our next topic is we're going to
010talk about town meeting. Not so much what's on the warrant, but the overall structure of it. How does it look? How does it feel? Are people happy when they leave? Are they upset? Annoyed? Um, so, uh, there there's so many things we could talk about. So, is there something you would like? Oh. Oh, we also want to make sure we talk about the Framingham voters. >> So, the town meeting, I mean, I grew up in New England, so I have that history. It's been, it really was the start of democracy. And we cannot say that town meeting, I think, is perfect democracy. We know the ways people can be left out. Our town is doing a great job of dealing with one of them by having child care. Um there there's I believe it's Wayland
011is lobbying the state about having a remote participation which means if you're away for work you might be able to call in but in the meantime >> we could do more and and and I'll leave it open to you to say more. But I I I guess along that lines we could >> I think allow remote questions which isn't the same as remote voting. our town could move forward with some things to make it uh more available to people because that's one of the big complaints we hear from people just in general, >> right? >> Uh I think I would like to talk about um well I I can grade it. I think I I will grade the town meeting. I think the organization by the town clerk's office is good. There's occasional some backups.
012I always get there early, so I have never personally experienced backup. So, I think I would give that a B+. The delivery of the town meeting, I think I would give a D+. uh it is not welcoming and it is and and in fact because uh that we there is a citizens petition on there a group of us I think I don't know when it was must have been no it was during co I think it was 2024 or 2023 um we created a warrant article and it was in the spring so you only need 10 people to sign it, but you want to get more like 15 and we can talk about the specifics more. And because when I first moved to town, it was such a joy to go to town meeting. You
013could get up and talk as long as you needed to and nobody ever abused it. And there were always people in line and they were happy and laughing. And then that changed. I think it was 2017. I'm not sure the exact date, but they decided that we could only speak for 60 seconds. That was version one. >> Well, by the time you got up and you said your name and your town, you could barely see anything before you were cut off by this timer that seemed to get bigger and then it became giant. And then I think the next town meeting they made it u 90 seconds. But honestly, you cannot say anything substant of in 90 seconds. It's It's really hard. And then so we changed it that it would be three minutes and
014we didn't say anything about the second minute without we didn't say anything about people not being able to come up a second time. So for some reason you can now get up for your three minutes but now you can't get up a second time which I don't know about you but >> well so I I don't understand this because town meeting it's the legislative body of the town and it's very important in New England town government and unless we change our form of government it should be taken seriously and I feel like the time limit so I I I did read a bunch people um the League of Women Voters in like Stow area, they studied um all those area towns >> and a lot of them do have a limit and they they were
015trying things to encourage more participation. They they didn't promise that >> the participation didn't really change. So participation in government in general, that's one of the reasons we're doing this podcast is a problem. So I I think especially with the citizen petition increased till three and unless we hear people saying I really want four or five or 10. I'm I'm kind of okay with that to try that as if people have a perception that it's smoother. >> Um but I think the unwelcoming I think there's so many ideas that we could try. Um, sometimes there are complicated articles and the way I feel like it's often presented is like Oz, like this is Oz, the great Oz is telling you what it should be. >> Exactly. >> And I I'm not even saying that's wrong,
016but it's I feel like that perception isn't great. And I I was reading some other things we could do is if you had a like a third party come in like a knowledgeable resident that was speaking about it. It takes it away from a power structure of like town government um separated from the people because I I know that people work hard in town not to make uh like a separation that it's enemies which it's not but it still is a power structure. Let's be real, right? there's a power structure >> of town government and so if town government doesn't offer the same kind of venues for people to have their voices heard that's where there's the problem. So I I know we hear a lot that us them. No, this is not about us
017them, but it is acknowledging a power thing and some things that you might be able to do at town meeting to make that not feel that way. Yeah, I definitely people should be able to get up twice and I don't care if it takes two nights and honestly when we could speak as long as we wanted instead of this weird militant setup with this gigantic clock ticking in your face. Um, we almost never went to a second night. I almost feel like all these maneuvers to keep us from speaking are actually making it more cumbersome. It it it actually reminds me of a ZBA meeting, you know, this weird muffling of everybody's voices. Um I It's like they're trying to keep us from saying something. And I'd like to know what is it and why
018be involved in town government? If you want to muffle people's voices, I think you need to think about is this really the right fit for me? because it's it's it's the people's night. Town meeting is the people's night and if the people are wearing basically a a muzzle. Uh I I don't see how they can be all that effective. >> Well, and I think that that that's a good point. We talked about efficiency and democracy is not efficient. It it just isn't. And yet that's what we believe in that in the United States certainly in our town and certainly >> people when they are involved can probably start seeing how that's really really important right citizens being participating and so right if you want to try to manage the public to such a way that
019you think it's efficient it's really becomes uh I mean a turnoff anyway if not undemocratic >> you know It's like, are we a bunch of cattle that need to be managed? I mean, it's it's just quite strange. And so, I actually took the time and I watched Hollist's most recent town meeting because they have a new moderator. It's someone I'm acquainted with. And I really encourage people to watch our town meeting and watch any other town. And it was it just started out with welcome, glad you're here. And they had a pretty good crowd. If you listen to ours, it's don't do this and don't do that and if you do that and we can't do this and do and there's comments about bullying and it was sometime before co I felt like I had
020been bullied at town meeting. They people up front were actually like I I felt like I was the brunt of somebody's joke. So I did and this is something important for town eating because I think part part of this show podcast show um for me anyways is about people taking their own power back instead of just giving it away and then you know just obediently going along with these really bizarre tactics. So there's something you can say called point of order. I don't know that a lot of people know that, but if there's something going on with the structure of the town meeting or you feel like you're being bullied or some crazy thing you don't feel is right, you stand up in your seat and you got to yell pretty loud. Point of order
021and then the moderator will say, "Come on down." And then you go to the mic. And I've probably used it, I don't know, four times. and I've seen a couple other people use it, but I think a lot of people just don't know that it's a tool that you can use. So, and I think that's one of the thing on the on the podcast like how how can people prepare, right? So, we do have um typically town government has a forum about the warrant articles. Sometimes it's really tight to the meeting. So, I'm not sure you'd have a chance to really study the issue, which is why I like the idea of having um a presentation at town meeting about them. I also think we need to somehow get to the point of having a
022pro and con. You get that when there's ballot questions. Um, okay. All right. So, my mother lives in another town and the town I grew up in, and they get this really thick warrant. It's mailed to their house. It's beautiful. And what's awesome about it is it has everything in it that you need. It also has arguments in favor, arguments opposed. >> They actually take >> a lot of time to do this. And we used to have a little bit more in our warrant and then I it was sometime I want to say >> they decided to take things out of the warrant. This is actually comical. They took things out of the warrant and they put them in this so-called budget book. So the first meeting everybody including the finance committee was looking for
023the budget book. They were looking for the information and it was like quite frankly an Abbott and Castella routine. It's like who's on first? Where's the budget? And then it was announced oh we didn't make any copies. So this information that was supposed to help us was nowhere to be found. And now we've got the uh continued stripped down version. Uh the last one was a little bit longer than normal, but most of them are about 45 pages. This one is uhund pages. Um and again, it's all part of a how much do you care about town meeting? It's supposed to be our legislative body. We can't speak. the warrant is stripped down and then sometimes I'm sorry maybe it's because I'm a writer but there's just so many typos that you're just reading it
024and last time I think I I sent the moderator a whole bunch of typos that I found and it's like it's not even long do you know spellch check some of these would have been caught by spell check >> so and I guess bring up now as I recall I think we're a little bit getting away from printing anything. So, that's a reminder to people going to town meeting. I think you have to bring a device, right, to to um read it, which I I'm all for saving paper, although I'm old school and like the paper, but that probably has to be make sure you're prepared with a device to read the warrant articles. >> Um, and while I'm talking about it, I'd like to mention again because my mother lives there, she gives me
025all this stuff. uh I think it was a year or two ago whan started this paper called the white Post and uh they they fundraised for it so it's not coming out of anybody's budget that I know of and they got an editorial board advertising and it's really fantastic because it's like a a mini version of what all the papers used to be when they were actually what's that word the fourth estate yeah when they were actually acting like the fourth estate and >> they were they were called uh there was some I I think it's one of the big papers is democracy dies in the dark >> Washington Post >> yeah but you know but the papers were a way for us to even talk about warrant articles or ballot initiatives by writing letters
026to the editor and everybody read it and now so anyways It's just fantastic. And they give you all kinds of information. I think it comes out every other week. It might be every week, but it's every other week. And it is I just kudos to them >> because it's fantastic. I I don't know what their budget is. >> Um Oh, do you want to mention this Framingham thing before we forget? because they they don't have town meeting anymore, but they have >> so on the ballot to a city government with counselors, but >> I definitely applaud them because there's a ballot question coming from the counselors, >> which would be like our citizens petition to have u more citizen involvement in the budget. And what they don't want to happen, which is typically what we
027see, is at the end we vote. Do we accept the budget or not? Yeah. But we don't have input going into the budget. Uh the departments do, town government does, but citizens don't. So that is the actual ballot question to have early on. Citizens participate in budget before it gets voted on. And I think Ashlin could easily improve our process migrate to something like that as well. Um um it's we could bring it to the select board if and and I think they're pretty open-minded if they don't want to do it. Somebody could do a citizens petition, but it's it's so vital for the citizens to have a say in the budget when it starts. What happens with us is a bunch very small group of people um decide where everything's going to go and
028then by the time you get to town meeting and of course our we'll be talking about finance at the next the next podcast conversation um because without a film finance committee and we are like the only town that doesn't film because I can watch them in every town but this fun and I've asked for years and I don't know why they want to keep us in the dark. Again, democracy dies in the dark. Uh so the budget by the time you get to town meeting it's too late. I can get up and say what does this mean or I don't like that or whatever. But is there even a mechanism to change the budget? >> No. I think we'd have to just vote down typically the whole thing. >> The whole thing it's It it's
029really a cry and shame that the people who are paying for it and the people who are supposedly at the top of this structure again once again are sitting there powerless because of the way this thing is designed. And again, people have great ideas. And I'm actually going to segue into that uh before I forget. Um because we call this the information parlor because the people citizens have a right to share information. It's again I think it's your civic duty to spend some time finding information whether it's a town meeting or a select board meeting or a ZBA meeting or the town meeting and I write the selectman when I think there's something that needs to be said and one thing I noticed again it I believe it was in this whining paper my mother
030gave it to me um we had one one Ashland municipal aggregation rate and it got so high that it was actually higher than ever and so I wrote them and I gave them the link. I explained that I think Whan has four different choices. I think it was four and that why don't we have four different choices especially when it's getting expensive. So I was very happy to read um that we have now moved to three choices um there's standard optional and optional grading. Standard, optional, basic and optional grading. So you can go as low as3 which is going to help people because you know it's it's a little crazy out there with all everything from your homeowners insurance to your car insurance to your food to everything >> which is why I think that
031program is great because there there was one that you're specifically paying more to get more renewables and people in an economic position to do that may choose to do that but if they're not they have a chance to get a over. Okay. Uh if people saw our first conversation, heard our first conversation, um because this is fun, too. We started a list of bad girl rules and uh eventually uh we'll probably publish them, but I'm just going to write down one. Uh bad girls share information. um sometimes. >> So along with that sharing information, I I think we probably have time. So the town I grew up in um I'm not sure if there's something specific going on, but someone published um on uh social media, something I think is pretty you could substitute um
032Ashland here. Our town's future is being shaped right now and we cannot afford to sit on the sidelines. And that's right now. It's always the decisions made by our elected officials affect our schools, our neighbors, our safety, our quality of life. If we want real change, we must demand it. >> This is a critical moment. Too often, leaders make choices that don't reflect the will of people simply because they are ignoring us. That ends today. I call on every resident to step up and take action. I'd like to read these because I think they're very simple and easy. Speak out. Attend select board meetings. Write letters. Make calls. Let your voice be heard. Organize. Talk to your neighbors. Is sharing information. Build a collective presence that cannot be ignored. Hold officials accountable. Remind them who
033they work for. This is one of my favorite parts. And that silence is not consent. Because we often hear that, well, we don't hear from people, so they think it's on the right track. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. Hold officials accountable. Vote. Your vote is your power. Use it at every local election. Attend every annual meeting, including the special town meeting. Change doesn't come from the top down. It starts with us. Together we can make sure our leaders listen, respond, and lead any way that reflects the true will of the community. Let us rise, speak, and act. Our town needs us now more than ever. So, I would argue, I don't know that there's a particular issue. I would argue that's certainly in these economic times and things that are going on. We've also
034heard about possibly an override would be making sure that people's voices get heard. >> Yeah, we're going to talk about that. Um, so I just want to end this conversation, conversation number two, by just again letting citizens out there know that if you want to be a co-host on the show, uh, you can contact us at badg girls.com or find me on Facebook or Kate, thank you and you know it's a good opportunity for you to come and talk about some issue might be the schools might be trash I don't know I don't know what it is but I think the more we get our voices heard in an arena where we are making the rules uh is is really a plus because in fact we really need to again keep taking back our power
035meeting it's our town it's our it's our this or that or whatever it is. So, >> well, thank you for uh again allowing me to be a co-host on conversation too. And I I would again encourage anyone to join and talk about issues you care about in town. >> And it's fun. >> It's fun, folks. >> This is really, really fun. >> Wacka TV. >> Yeah. Yes. Thank you, Wacka TV. And we will see you in a couple weeks for conversation number three.