001[music] Hello Ashlanders. There's a new podcast in town, The Bad Girls Guide to Town Government. It's of the people, by the people, and for the people. An opportunity for citizens to express themselves on their own terms. And it takes place right here at Wacka TV in the information parlor. And one of the reasons we are uh calling it that is because we feel that we kind of have one-sided information in town and you really need all the different sides of the information. Okay. So today's conversation will be co-hosted by Kate Jerzik and Julian Ardone. And before we uh launch into today's topic, we always start out with the upbeat corner. And uh would you like to uh >> Yeah, I'd like to. And I also want to remind that we still um honor Jim Hannah
002as a co-host. And again, thank you for the opportunity for co-hosting with you on uh conversation three. >> Yes. >> So, Upbe Corner, the um village burial ground. I think people may have heard about the project is coming along with um a lot of uh community it started as community effort and a lot of town support. I was on the um I think we called it just working group >> um as as a citizen. And the the particular thing I wanted to just mention was that um through various connections we were able to get um Bridgewater State to come and do ground penetrating radar survey of the project which we believe there's probably unmarked graves and the whole story about graves got moved to the new cemetery. So that's an ongoing project. Uh it will
003continue in the spring. The particular thing though upbeat corners is it was so fun when there was um the cemetery just it it um came alive with a lot of younger people. Students came from various classes, three different professors I think combined and they were excited about our community. They were asking about our community. It was really fun to see them. And I I think just an interesting byproduct I realized is that they also were supporting town in other ways. They all went we took a lunch break. They went to lunch and ate at local establishments. And that will be ongoing. So if you hear about it, you're welcome to come down and participate. You get to actually use the ground penetrating radar yourself. >> Correct. >> Oh, that's cool. >> So I think it's
004uh that will I'm assuming it'll kind of be not happening again till the spring, but that will be ongoing. So >> yeah, I I just think the cemetery project act is just it's a draw off for downtown. I mean it you go there and it's like peaceful back there and quiet. It's a place you can really go to get away from the noise. Um okay. So and then I'm going to do today's inspirational quote which is I would rather be accused of breaking presidents than breaking promises. And that was John F. Kennedy. All right. So today's riveting topics are we're going to talk about town branding, briefly free crash, the tribe board meeting with the slash override, and uh broke broken promises. And I don't think we'll have time for the last topic uh which
005would be information and government. We'll do that next time. All right. So Kate, why don't you tell us about your experience on the road? >> So I think the the branding comes from I've been telling everyone I since I got back the trip on the way back from a road trip ended up in Senica Falls and turned off the road because they had a women's history museum. So that that is a a neat I'm a history nerd. That's a neat anchor. But when we got there there everybody was just excited like literally I mean a lot of people were park rangers or volunteers who came across people that their town of Senica Falls believes they were the model for um it's a wonderful life movie. So the entire weekend every year they have a celebration
006right so they they pretend on that weekend they're Bedford Falls >> and this is um >> we are family in Senica Falls. No one is a stranger kind of their motto. So they they actually value history. And I think what I saw is it was a community glue. And I also imagine um if you look through the pamphlet that it was also bringing bringing people in. I I actually saw a news clip of it and a woman said, "I'm not from here. I discovered it and I'm going to come back." You know, hours away driving. So I think it also brings people to the community. >> Yeah. Um, I would like to go there. Uh, since you mentioned it, I did a a quick Google. They have a It's a Wonderful Life museum. It seems
007like they have a museum trail of maybe like I want to say seven museums. And they've got I I found a picture of course of a mill building by a waterway. Um, which kind of uh segus nicely into our own uh inability to brand oursel even though we have an incredible branding story with Henry Warren and all the buildings he touched. He was in the mail buildings that are partially coming down which is just it's it's totally tragic and unfortunately self >> I think there's I mean I I wonder um you know I can't say in Sica Falls I think they probably capitalized when the national park came there because I I talked to him and that that building that they restored >> uh was like a laundromat and something like so they they had
008to go back in time and sort of restore some things. It wasn't always honored that same way, but but we could be the innovation community, right? And capitalize. It doesn't even have to be simply Henry Warren. Like that's a big deal. But >> um and then Old Connecticut Path >> comes right through our town and we sort of forget about that. And then >> I mean maybe the witches caves, maybe that's a fallacy, maybe that's a myth, but it might be like >> the Bedford Falls myth. >> It's okay. Um I I think there's lots of opportunity for branding and I think branding is just something to coalesce around. >> Yeah. >> And and I think we should do that. And of course for me history would be a great way to do that. >>
009And I loved history too. I think it was called social studies >> when I was in school, but I really loved it. I'm going to briefly talk about another town that has done a good job with branding. It's Point Pleasant, West Virginia. It's on the where Ohio and I think it was the Karuga or the Kuga >> rivers came together and it's famous because uh there was a movie called The Moth Man Prophecies. I love to talk about movies. >> Um and it was this weird winged creature with red eyes that was showing up and it all kind of built up to the Silver Bridge collapsed. I think it was December 15th, so around this time of year in 1967, >> the um stoplight had backed up all the traffic and it the bridge couldn't
010hold up. >> Um but they they just capitalized on it. They've got a map museum, festivals, everything about the bridge and they've got 4,000 people. I also looked up Sica Falls. We've got 9,000 people in all these cool buildings and I just I don't know. I'm just not sure what we're doing. And we never have an opportunity to even examine what we're doing. Like no one's allowed to just say where are we going with this? Which is one of the reasons we've got the show so that people can have a voice about, you know, it's not like shut up and sit down. It's come on. It's like stand up and talk and >> you know >> so historic preservation really is I mean it's right if you go to the Senica Falls website right and
011I just wrote down a couple of the things that they believe contributes to community pride adds to the character >> of town and then in tracks investment because sometimes these older buildings are >> are not kept up but once you get somebody to make an investment you can start seeing the potential. So >> yeah, >> among the many many reasons of historic preservation make sense for a town, >> you know, would that that is an angle that we should look at. >> Yeah, I mean the main streets program by the national >> what is it? The National Preservation of History National. >> Yeah. Pres um and I think Hudson was one of their number one main streets. And again, I we did vote well, I didn't um vote down the uh historic district, which honestly
012every other town does it. And they just it really brings the town together. It brings the it alive. It helps you do your branding. Again, we do things that just kind of don't make any sense. Um but all right. So the next thing uh the next movie no the next thing we're gonna uh briefly talk about free cash. Um we were you were at the town meeting right? Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. So we were both at the town meeting and they always start with I think it's it's like article two and I think it was about three million and I just want people to understand that free cash is a surplus. um what you decide to do with the surplus or if you think we need a surplus or we don't have a surplus. >>
013I mean, that's all things to talk about, but um when we're told we have a deficit, and they often do that at the beginning of the year, um we so far have never had a deficit um because we had we had the free cash. So, anyways, um what are what are what are your thoughts? Uh, you know, >> I'm pretty conservative financially, so I like the idea that we are. I think that um the policies they made that it's sort of preddered of if there's free cash where they go had some thought. So, I like that. And I think um you probably don't need to run that high of a deficit. I mean, of of a surplus, right? And I think we heard a little bit of that in the tribore meeting that they're they're
014going to try to ratchet that down a little bit. And it is I mean it's hard to make these projections exact, right? There's people move into town, out of town. How much your car is valued affects how much money the town gets. So it's a moving target. I I agree with all of that. Um but I think it's really important like you said to to remind people that free cash is it's still our tax dollars and to be used wisely. >> Yeah. I mean one uh issue I do have with it is again the people are not invited to have a say in where the money goes. They have this polic. It's funny. They've got a policy and then I think it was either this town meet this special town meeting or the one before
015where it was like, "Oh, well, we'll just change it." And it's like, "Well, you change it for yourself, but you don't let the people ever change it for themselves." And you know, there's different things that people need that people want or this fixed or that. and we're just really excluded from most conversations. There are the comprehensive plan, you know, people were absolutely invited to talk into that, but in general, you know, anything that gets near the budget, even though we're paying for it, uh, we don't we don't have much of a say. And I really would like to see that change. >> I think absolutely. I think that and I what I imagine is from a position of leadership, you know, these they are complicated, right? And so it takes time to have people informed
016and make good decisions. Um, but that's the work that's the work of leadership to bring the public along >> to to be able to make good decisions. >> I mean, I I I guess I don't understand this. I I don't even know what to call it. Fear of the public, contempt for the public. I I don't know what it is, but it's like Well, we have a personal example uh later on, but I I don't understand it. Damn. I do not. What I would surmise is it's easier to do your try to do your job to the best of your ability well without a distraction because the public is a distraction. What needs to be forefront is you are public servants and public service and so is your job easier without a bunch of people
017asking questions and wanting to know things. Yep. Right. And I so I think it's sort of that um and I would like to see a reset of how do we be more public facing forefront and have that in our mind. >> Oh, I love that. public facing because I mean one can make the argument that oh we could do our jobs better but your whole job is serving us. >> Exactly. Yes. >> So I mean when you want to cut out the people that you're serving because if you look at any other business they're always doing market research. They're always trying to find out what their customers want. >> Um so I wrote bad girls push for their voices to be heard. >> Yeah. >> Okay. because I don't know if we're going to put
018a booklet together or t-shirts. Wait, I'm definitely going to make a t-shirt of this Bad Girls Guide to Town just on the podcast podcast. Um, you might uh not see it. All right. So, the next thing we're talking about is very exciting. [clears throat] And uh there were two tribe board meetings, one on October 22nd and one on December 10th. And I first want to applaud whoever did it um that they were actually filmed because I've been asking since like 20 I don't know 18 17 that these tribe board meetings. >> Now, are the finance committee meetings filmed? >> No. And that is like, you know, when you just have pet peeves. >> Um >> the our finance committee meetings are not filmed and we are the only town that doesn't film our finance committee
019meetings. And you know, if you want to keep the public in the dark, you know, don't film them. But if you want to bring us into the light and let us know what's going on and let us ask questions, then film them. And I think that's a great point because I was out of town when that uh the December 10th tribore, but I came back and watched it. When I started logging on, it had 234 views. Now, that might not be 200 >> 234 people. It might have been me. I got in and out right a couple times, but it's still it's still significant. And I noticed that there were >> I didn't count. I couldn't see. But people people spent three hours listening >> just the same way that group sat in the room.
020It's a lot, right? It is public service is a lot. Even if it's a volunteer, three hours is a lot, right? But >> but if that is a way that you you have to be available to the public and having them filmed where people can go back and watch them and Wacka does a great job of >> of getting things available >> and all they have to do is ask them to come and film. Um so I want to briefly for the October 22nd one um I believe Yolanda um had a wonderful suggestion to have a listening tour because they were being pressured to vote um by the staff members that started out as we're going to have a stra >> um that didn't end up happening. But what do you think if you >>
021Well, I I that's a good point. I remember that I did again I did not attend the 22nd but I watched the tape and I thought that was a great idea and it does not appear that between the 22nd of October [clears throat] and December 10th that that happened. So our point about having public input um didn't happen beforehand. It doesn't mean it can't and won't happen afterwards. And I I know there were several um select board members that seemed to continuously raise that point and perhaps other committee members that also supported that. Um but that that starts being that uphill battle to have the public understand, >> right? Um, I watched the meeting and I think, um, as a member, now I admit they had some papers. The the people at the meeting might
022have had a lot more backup than the public would have by watching it and listening, but for me to make decisions on there, I would say absolutely not adequate information. >> Yeah. Um, I watched one and then I I watched live the uh the December 10th one and the the whole point of a listening tour is to find out what the public's thinking. Now, when you have what I call a retroactive listening tour, >> when they've already decided that they're and I don't even I don't even know what they actually voted on. Did they actually vote to look into the override or to just put the override on? because I know at in the December 10th meeting um they were kind of all over the place and some of them wanted one and three and
023they had like two but then they ended up picking three and because they the staff member running the show um said that was the one he wanted and I was like well I I I think if you're going to give people three choices I don't think you should try to push them into one direction. >> I don't know. >> Um but but if you have a leader that has thought about it and recommends, I think that's fair to recommend. But I mean, I can say um let me give you some of the details it said. So we know Proposition 2 and a half in Massachusetts, you can't raise property tax more than 2 and a half%. We know often inflation is more than that, particularly healthcare. However, um assessments go up. So we don't I
024do not know the number what that with the assessments and the two and a half how much our budget went up. It it's presented as it's not covering healthcare was one. So I think again as a member of the public I'd want to know >> is there anything we can do about that. Is Ashlin paying the same as asking employees to pay the same contribution right and I would love to give free healthcare to everyone. Okay but that we all know that's not practical. So maybe we have to look at that and maybe I'm always cautious about why compare with other towns. What I want from my leadership is to make the numbers work, right? So if it if it takes an extra contribution, [clears throat] um it was mentioned that pensions don't aren't keeping
025up, but how do the pensions not like is that because we're creating positions and there's more pension obligation because that wasn't explained. And again, I admit that um someone sitting in the room may have had all kinds of backup of that, but as a member of the public um listening, I I would not be able to understand that. >> I I'm not sure because again, they don't really give you much information. I think that backup was the stuff they were presenting. Mhm. >> Um because I don't I just don't feel like there was there were any really strong questions asked about well what's the culpit or what what >> so explain how those things aren't keeping up would be my first >> explain it and again we we are not if you watch the one
026on the what is it the 10th uh the 22nd um we don't have a freeze we're still hiring here. We're doing business as usual and then saying to the public, "Oh, we have uh I don't I don't use the word deficit." I think the word deficit is really overspending. Um because let's face it, it's a choice. If you wanna overspend your budget even before you even have your I mean this is this conversation is basically we want to overspend before we even start and we want you to subsidize it. Um >> and I think that's a good point. Another thing is if if um under when COVID started surrounding towns were having hiring freezes and we did not. We said everything was good. Right. Yeah. >> And the conversation now is saying, you know, this
027isn't new. And I imagine it's not, right? Money is always an issue. Could schools use more money and do more? Yes, they could. Could town use more money and do more? Yes. But what it is is making making the budget work, right? Which is I believe the job of town leadership, make the budget work, right? >> So I think to to understand that is why are we adding um why are we adding these positions, right? if there is and then I look back at some of the finance committee me minutes I don't recall that being strongly stated that we were over we're for the past three years or more >> um have you seen >> um I find those meetings basically the same two staff come to every single meeting so I I I went
028and I looked it up because I'm like h and it's like they're never unsupervised I the finance committee used to meet every two weeks year round. Even in the summer they might miss a few here and there. I know Hollist meets every two weeks. I've actually gone to a Hollist finance company because I just want to see what it was like. Um I just I think if you want to talk deficit, I think the real deficit is that in our financial uh oversight. I I don't think um people are asking good questions. you if you just have, you know, two staff members coming to every meeting sharing their side of a story and nobody else and then it's not uh filmed. Uh I I just think you're you're starting off on the wrong foot. So
029I really think we need to take the finance committee seriously, which we aren't. Like the other towns, film it. Um they meet all the time. they meet without the same two staff members coming to every single meeting which I don't know makes me really uncomfortable um and you know again it's not filmed >> so here's one Julie that I think we can agree there actually is a deficit um is the OPED >> okay yeah OPED there is a deficit although they keep saying because the they've built ahead of time new people are paying uh their OPED sort of upfront That's been [clears throat] uh and one other thing before I forget. We're not gonna actually there's things that I think we're gonna have to talk about >> at the next >> Yeah. >> Um I
030I I I feel like I'm constantly losing the plot the plot of this town because we've been told it's been pounded into our heads with that line graph uh that we need more development. We need more development even though we have tons of development the line graph. So it's funny once I mentioned the line graph suddenly nobody they got rid of the line graph. Uh but um we have absolutely tons of development and they kept saying we need this development for the budget. So you've got the development for the budget and now they're they were literally um downplaying the new development. Yeah. >> It was so weird. I I think being cautious is good as No, they mentioned developments might not happen, but I think that also has to be a discussion. If there's an
031override, do you wait and see how that works out? My my timer has something. Um yeah, I mean it was then they were at least what I thought I heard and I've watched it one and a half times. um something like, "Oh, we're going to be conservative." Okay, so you're going to be conservative with the new development so the override looks better instead of, you know, you know what I really like? I just want I want like >> the facts. >> I want the facts. I just want people to be honest and just, you know, tell us the truth because I don't feel we're even remotely tell the truth. I don't know what you call it, but it just feels very weird to me. And >> well, I I don't know if it's um I
032can't say I would think it's untruthful, but I think it's more information. So So people were concerned about how are people going to swallow this? Well, they have to swallow it by starting with information, >> right? Like true information and facts, right? So what did you use for new growth and why, >> right? And it's like, >> and what's that basis? >> Yeah. Right. >> Give us air on the side of more information than almost no information. >> I would agree. >> I know how I feel when I watch these meetings and it's >> it's really not a good feeling. Um because I the public's left out. I there finally I again I have to applaud Yolanda again for saying we we seem to have people on the line here. Um can we include the
033public? And this is before they took the vote. >> And she said that and then they just kept talking. And then uh another select board member said the same thing. They just kept talking. Then a third finance committee person said that and they just kept talking and they took the vote. So they took the vote and then they opened it up to the public. Um and what I said is important, but we're going to talk about it next time. Are you free in January? >> Yeah. >> All right. We're gonna talk about it next time because then we can give it more. >> Well, and we can also hope that the town does start releasing more like specific background information about >> are they watching this podcast? >> Budgetary numbers. >> They used to watch
034the show. Jim and I did. So, I'm I'm maybe they're watching it. I don't know. Um, yeah, because I I I was talking and then uh one of the select board members asked me a question that triggered something else I wanted to say and I well hadn't even been talking that long and then I was told that I was off topic and then they quickly ended the meeting and I I kept saying I'm I'm not off topic. I mean, none of it was off topic. And there's no such thing as being off topic because if you ask someone for their comment and they're talking about what they just heard to to then tell them they're off topic is again, it was very off-putting and not not pro people, not pro- community, not pro- listening, just
035you move along. there's nothing to see here type stuff, which I don't know. I I I I really have a problem with it cuz why would you not include >> Yeah. I think that's another another deficit, right? A deficit of public input. >> Yes. I'm going to write that down. I love this. I love see what we're getting at here is when we just uh what we're getting at here which I'm really excited about is we're getting we need to make a list of the actual deficits. >> Yeah. >> I mean there's these alleged money deficits, but then there's the the what do you even call these? not moral. I what's the right word? When you have a deficit of listening and a deficit of letting people participate and a deficit of of >> truly
036understanding what public service is and what public service isn't. So there's this whole other layer of deficits. >> There is. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, I think that would be really an awesome topic too along with the other stuff we're going to talk about uh next time. Um, just, you know, one of the reasons that we're doing this program is to try and, you know, enhance things. I I don't know if I like the word improve, but what do you think? Um, I think this is going to continue to be especially if there's a final vote for the override. >> Yeah. Oops. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know because they they're coming back too to look at the money. I mean, again, it felt very premature. It felt premature like we're in a hurry. Let's rush rush
037rush. And I think when people rush rush rush, it's it usually turns into a mess. Um, all right. So, uh, we have I'm just looking for the, uh, I just want to remind anybody that wants to email us. We are at badg girls.com. And if you think you might like to be a co-host, uh, we welcome that. I have been talking to various people and you know things that keep you up at night that you're very interested in. Uh we do every program we do at least three topics maybe four. So is there anything you would like to say before we end? >> No, I would just again encourage people to be a co-host and um pay attention to things happening in town. >> All right. So, we want to wish everybody a happy holidays
038and we have a great uh 2026 and we will be back in January. So, thank you. >> Thank you to >> people. Thank you to Wacka. Thank you to the people of Ashland and I don't know who else should be thanked. Um, thanks Go.