Planning Board (November 13th, 2025)

001two one. >> Good evening everyone and welcome to the Ashlin Planning Board meeting of Thursday, November 13th. A reminder to everyone that the meeting is being broadcast and recorded. Um starting off I will call the meeting to order at 7:23 few minutes late. Um, and just a very short uh clerk's report, chair clerk's report this evening. Um, just acknowledging that we did receive uh three emails from since our meeting just one week ago. Um, two of those were from the same person. Um, so and I just wanted to also just make a few more comments. Next, uh, Wednesday is town meeting. I think that starts at 7. At 7. So, um, we will not have a planning board warrant article on there, but, uh, it's always a good time if you don't come to town

002meeting. I would make a plug for it. Um, that'll be next Wednesday. And also, I talked to um, Paul, what's Paul's last name? Technical >> Carpenter. Talked to Paul Carpenter today about emails. So, um I know you're having deep sounding problem with your email. >> Paul's still you're still having problems with your email. >> I got a conference call with them. >> Okay. And Angel, I assume you will be getting a new um an Ashland email address. So, it's helpful in keeping keeping your lives separate, [laughter] you know. So, um so there will be more about that. that we're also going to look at um just changing the um general Ashland email um the one for the planning board is actually like Ashlin planning board at blah blah blah where everyone else is is just

003select board at Ashlin. So I don't know why we have this extra Ashlin in ours but we're going to be simplifying it because it's been driving me a little nuts. Um okay. So those are like the very critical announcements there. Um a welcome to Angela or Angela Angel um sitting on the uh the board for the first time as our new associate member. So, we appreciate you you being here. And um the first thing on Well, I guess I will because it's on the agenda, I will open it up to public comment, though I assume everyone in the room is here for a specific project and not p not a very general public comment. And I don't see many people online. So, okay. So, if there is any public comment, you can come to the

004microphone or raise your hand online. And seeing none, we will move on to the next agenda item, which is the public hearings. Um the first one in there is the um what would be a bylaw amendment for in-law apartments. Um, we talked about this a little bit um last time. Um, but that uh amendment is going to be continued. Um, but we do need to read it in. Is that right? Because it is a public hearing that was advertised for this date. Um, let me read it in and then I'll explain what's going on there. In-law apartments zoning bylaw amendment. In accordance with the provisions of Mass General Law Chapter 4A section 5, the Ashlin Planning Board will hold a public hearing on Thursday, November 13, 2025 at 7:15 p.m. on proposed amendments to the

005Ashlin zoning bylaws. The changes proposed are to add section 7.8 in the Ashlin bylaws in-law apartments and amend section 3.0 0 use regulations 3.1.g table of use reg regulations accessory uses. So this is um the zoning amendment um that was suggested by Doug Scott when we changed our um bylaws in the spring to accommodate the new state ADU requirements. What we did is take out the section that was really about ADUs at the time, but that also accommodated in-law apartments. So immediately actually at that time Doug expressed a concern that um his hands would be tied a little bit um that the that the um possibility to have an in-law apartment which is not an a rentable ADU would not be possible under the bylaws anymore. So, this was something was basically putting back in

006this opportunity for an in-law apartment um as well as an ADU that these are two separate things. So, um we were going to discuss that tonight and open it up for a as as the public hearing um so that it would be on the town meeting warrant um next week. But there was an error in the in the posting of it. So, it cannot go to town meeting. Um, I think that I think the posting was that it needed to be um because it's a bylaw change, it needed to be sent to surrounding towns and that didn't happen. I didn't even realize that was a thing. Um, but that didn't happen. Um, so we're the warrant is being pulled for maybe next week, but we'll come back um in the spring. So, um, what we're

007going to do tonight is basically, um, continue it. We're looking at continuing it until January. And then what we will probably do, and this is something I wanted to discuss with the board, what we'll probably do is um take an opportunity because we actually didn't have this opportunity before to look at it as a board, read it, tweak it, see if there's anything in there that isn't clear that we want to change. So, we didn't have that that opportunity before because of the timing. Now, we will have that opportunity to look at it as a board before reissuing as as a warrant for Springtown meeting. So, this just just found out about this yesterday. Yesterday, right? >> Yeah. So, um I didn't we figured the easiest thing to do right now would be to continue

008it until we learn from town council about kind of the right way to handle it and then we will figure that out in January and we'd still have a we'll still have a plenty of time to get it on for town meeting because it's already it's already written basically and ready to go. Does that make sense? Okay. So the um so what we would look to do is um continue it to the first meeting in January which is >> January 8th um and then at that time we'll have some answers about what we about what our process will be. So we'll have that down by the time we get there. Any other questions on that? Does someone want to make a motion to continue to January 8th? >> Can attempt motion to Move inlaw apartments

009zoning bylaws amendments to January 8th. >> And is there a second? >> A second. >> All right. So, and we'll have a roll call vote, but um yes. So, it's just the it's just the three of us. So, >> day I and Trisha Kendall I and that is enough to continue it to um to January 8th. So, we'll deal with that then. I I sent her a text um and I was texting with her today, so I'm not sure what's going on. I apologize to our audience um for this uh for the next item on the agenda is 55 Tilton Avenue. We will have to just um uh we're going to I can just table it. >> I do I need to do I need to go in order? >> Um >> because it was

010it's a public hearing and it was posted for 7:15. We at least have to open it, read it in, and then table it. >> I mean, because I could I could could take care of Metro West or do I need to do them in order? >> You don't have to do them in order, but we at least you you have to at least open it before you can table it. >> Okay. Well, why don't we do that because I can at least read it in, >> right? >> I think that's fair. >> It's short enough um to read in. >> So, okay. So, yeah, I'm just not sure I should do that, actually. >> I know. Yeah, if you >> Okay, we're not going to do that. We're we're going to go to the next

011um for those watching at home, the next item on our agenda is 55 Tilton Avenue. And this is a project which I, the chair, need to recuse myself from that project. Um but we do not have our fourth member of the board here, which we need for a special permit application. Um she should be here soon. Um, but until she gets here, we don't have four members of the board and we needed four members for a special permit. So, I'm looking for other things to fill in the time until hopefully our fourth member um arrives. So, >> please, >> there is a uh I represent Mr. >> Can you use the mic? I'm so sorry you can't hear it. >> I represent um 55 Tilton Avenue LLC. There is a slight error on the application.

012Um, it is not a special permit that's required per pursuant to your zoning table of uses a mixeduse residential and commercial building in the add zone and it is I've copied the uh thing into the app um is an allowed use with a Y. So, we do not need a special permit >> for the use >> for the building for the use. Yes. >> Right. >> Site plan review. >> He's saying he's saying you could vote on it, but you're since you're accusing yourself. >> We still have to wait for >> We still need a a full board to vote on a site plan review. >> Oh, I understand that. >> We don't need a four out of five. We only need >> Right. But we can't even open it yet. No, I understand that.

013But you read the article. >> You read the um advertisement and I just wanted to have that corrected. >> I believe we still need a special permit because of the mansered roof. >> I'm not sure on that. >> Um that would be under um 5.8 something something. >> Well, we can table that for now. I can certainly review that. >> Yeah. So that's um that was my that was my understanding. >> Sure. >> So but we'll go on a little bit for that. Um so meanwhile, why don't we take care of I'm going to um go down to item D. Um this is 240 to 260 Pleasant Street, the Metro West Facilities LLC. These are the soccer fields on Pleasant Street. Um that we have has been kind of continued for a while as they

014kind of gather other information. Um it's been a rather a long time actually and we kind of keep waiting for them to come back to us. Um but they have been dealing with the zoning board of appeals and with concom I think with some other questions. Um so we have talked to them um or Jasmine has and they are happy to be continued until after the holidays because we after this after this meeting we only have one more meeting before the holidays and they were happy to be continued to our um again to that January um 8th meeting. Um, so we will look to continue Metro West LLC to January 8th. Does anyone have any questions on that? Okay. All right. Save people trouble. I will make a motion that we continue 240 to 260

015Pleasant Street Metro West Facilities LLC um to January 8th. Is there a second? >> Second that. And a roll call vote. >> Deepen I >> and Trisha Kendall I. So that is continued. >> Did you >> Madam Chair for the record it is um under the bylaw section 8.5.11.4 the following standards for roofs shall apply. The planning board may grant a special permit in accordance with section 9.3 for Mansard or other roof styles if the applicant can demonstrate that the proposed design will enhance the character of the neighborhood through inclusion of historically appropriate architecture details such as cornises moldings and the like. >> That was my that was where I thought that special permit was was originating from. So So we do need that fourth member And >> he's >> and obviously u obviously Scott

016is not here. So, okay. What else can we get through? >> You can do the minutes. Yeah, I forgot about that. Okay, so the next thing we can take care of and get it off our list are the meeting minutes from October 23rd. Um, so I was there, Deepo was there, Paul, you were there. This is the meeting where um it was mostly about comprehensive plan that um the comprehensive plan team gave a presentation. Um so most of the most of the comments on here um are about uh comprehensive plan and that experience and we did a at the beginning part of that meeting we had looked at our schedules and trying to put things in the right date in order to get us uh through to the new year. So, we can take a

017few minutes and look at those. I'm mostly summaries people had about their experiences. is on the comprehensive plan. And then we did have the little discussion about softening the verb the verbiage of the one phrase and >> 23. Is the spelling right of Miss Solomon? Is is that double? >> I'm not sure. >> Just maybe you can check that one. >> I think it is. >> Yeah, I'm not I'm not sure. But we can we can check. >> Looks good to me. >> Okay. >> You okay? All right. All right. I will make a motion accept uh to accept the planning board meeting minutes for October 23rd um as presented except for a possible correction of a spelling of um of one name um that we will double check. Um is there a second? >>

018Second that >> and a roll call vote >> I and Trisha Kendall I meeting minutes taken care of. I am going to say we're going to take just a couple minutes recess, five minute recess just so I can see if I can get a hold of Anna. All right. back. >> All right. Okay, we are back everybody. Um so we are ready for the um public hearing. Um B on here, 55 Tilton Avenue, special permit and site plan review. Um, Vice Chair Anna Tesmaniski is online. So, we do have our fourth member, um, uh, SC Scott Pellet, our fifth member of the board, uh, will be, um, uh, will be able to read the meeting minutes for this meeting and then continue on with the process. So, there'll be a full So, there will be

019a a full board, you know, for this project. So, um, with that, I am going to, um, pass it off to Anna and I will recuse myself from the room and, um, obviously you'll let you'll let me know when I'll be coming back in. All right. Thank you. I apologize for the inconvenience. Good evening, everybody. I apologize for being remote. Jasmine, would you like me to read the >> Jasmine, can you hear me? Okay, >> I can hear you. I'm just echoing. Okay, >> no problem. >> Did you read it? Are you all set? >> I'm not sure why uh you're echoing, but I can certainly jump right in. So, we're going to open the public hearing on 55 Tilton Avenue for the special permit and site plan review. Would you like to read the

020notice, Jasmine, or do you want me to read it? >> Oh, I can read it. Um, the town of Ashlin, the Ashlin Planning Board will hold a public hearing on Thursday, November 13, 2025 at 7:15 p.m. in the second floor select board hearing room, Ashlin Town Hall, 101 Main Street, Ashlin, Mass 01721. This public hearing can also be joined via Zoom video conference. Please see the planning board agenda for this link. The planning board will hear will hear the petition of Tilton Sunrise LLC 60 Pleasant Street Ashland MA01721 requesting special permit and site plan review per chapter 48 section 6 of the Massachusetts general law and chapter 282 sections 9.3 special permits and 9.4 site plan review of the Ashlin bylaws. The applicant seeks to construct a three-f flooror mixeduse building with 14 apartment units

021and two flexbased contractor bays. The property in question is located at 55 Tilton Avenue, assessor's map 14, lot 62 in the Ashlin downtown C zone, downtown district C zone. Parties wishing to be heard on this matter should submit comments to the planning board ahead of time and or appear at the time place of the indicated above. Materials may be viewed by the appointed by appointment at town hall during normal business hours or at the following link. >> I want to move the arrow around here. >> Thank you, Jasmine. And as I understand, we have a presentation for the planning board. from the applicant. >> Yes, we do. And they're preparing it on the >> screen right now. I'm just going to see if they need >> to. >> What do I click? >> You good

022now? >> Yeah, I think so. >> Okay. >> Good evening. My name is George Connor. I'm representing Mr. Dudley of Tilton LLC. Tonight we have our architect with us, um, Rich Branken and, um, Mr. Dudley and his wife, along with, um, Julia, his, uh, administrative assistant. I'm also an engineer with the PL Cornerstone who prepared the plan. Mr. Dudley has acquired a halfacre lot at 55 Tilton Street, as you can is it on the >> It's not showing. Do you want me to? Yeah. >> I have no idea. >> You're quite all right. Got the red dot. Where's my red dot? >> It should be the center. You can use the keypad or the center mouse. I don't see the red dot. >> Oh, I got the arrow. All right. >> Yeah, if you can

023Okay. So, we have this. It's a halfacre lot and existing house on it. And then all the area uh the existing house right there. All the area from that point down uh to the south of the site is basically an open grass field. We have the railroad track behind it along front along Tilton Avenue. We have two sections of frontage. Uh and it goes up here too. And that particular amount is about 107 feet. It's a 1 half acre lot. It sits next to a vacant uh lot that is owned by the town and is probably scheduled for some sort of a parking area. The site to the east of to the west of it is 60 Pleasant, which Mr. um Dudley owns as well. And then there is residential to the north of it.

024Uh there's a house there. I think it's a duplex. and a barn in back that is used used to be used for a cabinet shop. So the general area uh in immediately surrounding it has a little bit of a commercial component but then further north on Tilton you can find houses and things of that nature. Um, so this is a halfacre site and we are proposing uh about a 20,000 I'm sorry a 16,000 square foot total building all floors but about 5,400 square ft as the uh footprint. It will have some commercial space in the front of the building facing the railroad and uh un underground parking uh at first grade at floor grade for these two vehicles here. And we have approximately 24 parking spaces throughout this site. We are incorporating a through uh

025access from Tilton Avenue onto 60 Pleasant Street. And the major uh thrust of that is because as Mr. Dudley knows by renting out uh various um offices in 60 Pleasant, people coming from the south will go down Tilton Avenue and take a left onto Pleasant and then another immediate left into the parking lot for that. So our connection, our through connection here, we think is um a worthy uh component of the design. The site, as I said, all to the south of the building existing on the site is all grass. It's fenced in. Um, and it has uh a drain line that runs through along here. The drain line drains from the Nyanza site and picks up what's known as chemical brook. And there's contaminants in that. There's also uh contaminants in the groundwater that

026runs under the building. And for that we have discussed this with um our LSP and we can build this building with vapor barriers for [snorts] occupancy in it. We will have a uh plan for excavating soil for dealing with groundwater during construction and um uh safety values uh for the workers. The drain line that runs through here is severely damaged from whatever corrosion may have occurred in it. I have met with the DPW on site and we've evaluated that and we will replace that with a plastic pipe that should be able to uh uh withstand the uh whatever is in the water in that particular area. Uh there is no easement for that. It's just a pipe that exists there. by uh whatever they did to install it. The site cannot allow under the AUL

027activities use limitation that EPA and the D has to uh have any infiltration of groundwater of surface water into the ground from the increases in imperous surfaces from the site. As I indicated, a lot of the site is all grass. So, there'd be a small runoff component with that. But with the introduction of the paving and the building, that will increase not marketkedly. Um, we've given uh various storm water calculations in the application package, which I'm sure your uh peer review people will um evaluate. Uh we have asked for and will ask for under the stormwater bylaw a waiver that allows for that waiver to be given because of the federal uh requirement of no infiltration into the ground. As I said, the DPW is um in favor of this pipe replacement and it is

028our intention to grant an easement uh for it and memorialize it in perpetuity. The site has very minimal grading. It will come in uh basically as a very short slope coming in and through the site again. We are capturing all the water in a southerntherly direction and it will go into a catch basin here and here and then ultimately into the drain system. We will have a storm septer to do uh total suspended solids removal uh to 88%. The criteria is 80%. There's a small wetland on the other side of the railroad track and the 100 foot buffer basically uh just touches the corners of our lot. We are going to file with conservation uh because of the storm water. So, we'll um be following that process. Uh in terms of the site itself, we

029are going to realign some parking over in this location here and we're also going to have a little bit of a speed bump. so that we don't get uh traffic coming through at a rapid clip. Uh it's going to be basically dedicated to um the uses on lot uh on 60 Pleasant Street because um of the ability to get extra parking on that site. Uh that's basically the the site conditions. I'd be happy to respond to any questions and comments now uh or simply turn it over to Mr. rank and the architect to go through the building at your pleasure. >> Before we we start with the building, could you in looking at the narrative document that you submitted with your application, you went through the various zoning variances in a way that you are

030seeking with our board being fairly new. Would you mind walking through specifically what you are seeking relative to the special permit application and the site alteration special permit? What are you seeking outside of the normal zoning requirements for this project? >> Uh first of all, the waiver is uh strict compliance with the storm water regulations. As I indicated, there is a uh public policy that is not inconsistent with the bylaw. Um basically because of the AUL with NANZA, the conditions is it's allowed by federal, state or local statutes, which in this case both federal and state statute um and regulation relative to the plume. Uh it is in the overriding public interest. Um certainly impacting that plume and changing any of the groundwater characteristics of a contaminated plume is not in anybody's interest and it's

031not inconsistent with the purposes and intent of the bylaw and I think we can certainly understand that the bylaw is designed for public health safety and welfare and the uh health of the groundwater plume and um impacting that so that it doesn't follow the model of the EPA and D um would be appropriate to uh make that finding. In terms of um the site, uh we are asking for a mixed residential and commercial business use in the ADDC which is an allowed use. So this building has some commercial in the first floor as required and then some residential on those on that floor and above in terms of the ADD performance standards uh the suitability of the site um in terms of that we are providing I think what we would consider is a vast

032improvement on traffic going to 60 Pleasant Street. I don't think we have any impacts whatsoever on traffic in the area and there's plenty of parking not only on this site but on the adjacent adjacent 60 Pleasant Street. Uh your town is proposing or has talked about a parking lot beside this at the corner of Cherry and Pleasant which is our butter. Um and I think that covers the impact on traffic and pedestrian flow. Although pedestrian flow would be simply across um Tilton Avenue and then you are in the uh downtown proper with one uh going through one block. So it has um a lot of benefits to the downtown uh proper with respect to uh the services that are available at that location and um uh the pedestrian access I think is uh being provided

033for along on this. There's a sidewalk that goes up Tilton Avenue. Our sidewalk coming out of the building adjacent to Tilton Avenue will connect into that. Um there is sidewalk that will be continued down Cherry Street from other projects that have been approved. So we will be able to uh extend that particular um uh sidewalk uh complex. That sidewalk complex continues across Mungo Road and will uh connect to that is a kind of a walking trail across the uh swamp all the way out to I think it's Memorial Drive that was installed um not too long ago and the project on Mungo Road provided an easement for a sidewalk to connect to that. So this would um complete a uh connection right straight through from that. Um in terms of the design principles, I think

034most of those are with respect to the um building itself. Is there anything you think I've missed or you expansion? >> So I think you answered my question partly and we can certainly move on to the architect and the design elements. I just wanted to clear up looking at your narrative the my question was what led to the special permit filing just so that we're clear for this board and correct me if I'm wrong George it looks like you are filing for a special permit not only because of the storm water waiver that you're seeking which will also involve the conservation committee but you do have some um you have a requirement to file that for the downtown EDDD zoning district requirements and that's why you have a special permit with us. Is that right?

035>> I'm not sure that's correct. Um the downtown district allows uh as a Y in the table of uses a U mixeduse building residential commercial which this is there was >> and you're following all the height requirements and setbacks pursuant to that. You're not seeking any changes to that particular zoning. uh the architect will answer that but it's my understanding no. However, there was one issue that we talked about um with your planner and uh it appears that there is a diagram in 8.511 that shows a mansard roof with a notation that that's requiring a special permit. However, 8511 in the text and the four pictures that follow that show the exact building uh top that we are proposing and it's my understanding that town council will be contract uh contacted on that but that's

036not a big issue at this stage. Um, I think it's a site plan review, but if the special permit is required for the mo for this type of roof, I don't think that's a big issue either. >> Okay. So, Jasmine, just to ground the planning board and the proper um zoning elements here. Do before we start the design element part of the presentation, do you want to clarify for the planning board? It sounds like the applicant is saying the only special permit here is relative to the storm water. or is that currently accurate? >> We currently believe that there is a special permit required for Mansard roofs as specifically listed in the bylaw where it says the planning board may grant a special permit in accordance with 9.3 for Mansard roofs. The discussion is that

037a Mansard roof is somehow shown earlier in the bylaw under an allowed use but is not expressly allowed. Verbally it is very explicitly stated that a special permit is required for a mansard roof. The question is, since there happens to be an image of it in an incorrect section, does that negate this part of the bylaw? I'm going to confirm with town council that that's not the case, but I suspect it's not going to be. I suspect they will need a special permit for the Mansard roof as we have a definition for Mansard, and it states it explicitly in section 8.51.4. >> Understood. Um, I appreciate that explanation so that we as a planning board have the proper mechanism to go on in the presentation and understand the nature of what the applicant is asking

038us. Before we start with the design elements, do other members of the planning board have questions for George Connor at this phase. >> We're good, Anna. >> Okay. And George, you can go ahead and continue with your presentation. >> Uh, this is Richard Ranken, Ranken Associates, and we're providing uh the architectural design services for the project. I think George has completed his presentation. So, if uh please the board, I would go through the uh floor plans, elevations, and some views uh at this point if that's okay. >> Yes. Thank you. Um, so with regard to the floor plans, uh, and maybe take a step back as far as the meeting the zoning requirements, we we believe we meet the the requirements of the zoning with regard to setbacks, height, parking, uh, and the like. So,

039um, just just to put that on the table, uh, we feel we're meeting the requirements of the zoning bylaw, uh, in that regard. Um, so going on to the floor plans, this is the first floor plan. Um, and as George mentioned, we have some some commercial space. We have two contractor bays on the lower level. We have access to those uh from the south elevation. We've have an office, some toilet facilities, uh, overhead doors and so on. That those units are recessed in a bit as George mentioned. Um we do have a secondary entrance over here into bay 1. Um and we have um our lobby, some utility space, some vertical circulation and and also two accessible units uh on the first floor. And those are adjacent over here to our accessible spaces uh and

040access through this corridor presently here also with some utility space. Um on the second floor we have um total of six units consisting of uh a studio, two onebedrooms and uh three two-bedroom units. We've got a central circulation corridor, vertical circulation via these stairs. Um we do have some bumpouts if you will um on this on this particular floor um in the on the north side also on the south side and at the stair tower and we can talk about the reason for those once we take a look at the elevations. Um the third floor is uh similar to the second layout or second floor layout um except that the units are slightly smaller due to the fact that the mansard roof is sloping and we we lose a little space um in that in

041that configuration but again same same unit count um six units total so total 14 units uh two contractor bays and uh I think that's that's that's the long and short a little bit on the floor plans, the elevations. Um, this is this the south and the west elevation. Uh, the facade materials really consist of a masonry base throughout on all four elevations, collaborate siding, architectural trims, brackets, moldings, and a mansard roof with dormerred windows. Uh, that that occurs on the third floor. Um, as I mentioned, the south elevation has recess recesses at the uh at the contractor bays. Uh, and uh, again at the at where the overhead doors are and the access there on the south side. Um, the west elevation shows the stairwell accented a bit. Um, and the first and first floor

042residential units and the second floor residential units above uh, that that entrance to that stairwell. The entrance elevation is is faces um Tilton. Uh we have the entrance to the lobby. On the left we have the stair tower which is accented a bit bit of a protrusion. We're trying to break up the facade as best we can uh to cut down on the the massing of the building. Uh we have an entrance portico that's open but uh has columns that uh provide cover. [snorts] And this is that separate entrance to that that flex space on the first floor. And then the north elevation is is similar to to the most same materials. We have this bump out in the center area here again to break up that facade. And got the contractor bays here and

043the residential units here. This is a view pretty much from the entrance from the street showing kind of this the size massing the portions of the building. Um as mentioned a little bit of an overhang here. We tried to accentuate this tower and we've got a a bit of a accentuated corner here with the residential units on the first floor and and residential units above. Uh we show some signage uh off of Tilton. We've got our entrance portico here and you know we've got these brackets, some uh some shutters. I think it's it's a bit of a work in progress, but I think right now this is uh this is where we're at and certainly open to discussion. I don't know if we want to get into the landscape plan at this point, but basically

044we've we've got access from the the sidewalk on Tilton to the contractor bay, the main entrance to the front, kind of a secondary walkway here, and then access to the parking here. Uh the perimeter of the building is is is landscaped pretty extensively. We've got a seating area over here and you know the requisite amount of parking. Signage location is here and we've got a a view of that uh preliminary view of what the signage could look like. We've got the apartments and then two spaces for the tenants. And then we've just got a series of photos that show in context what's existing from various angles. You can see the existing home that is going to get removed. And then we just had some precedent images of some of the residences in the neighborhood on

045Tilton U and on Cherry, I believe, that show a kind of a consistent vernacular of of what we're proposing. and hoping that uh our architectural design is uh complimementaryary to these these residences that exist. >> So with that I I'll conclude the design piece. I'd be glad to answer any questions. >> Are there questions from the planning board? >> Angel, >> I have a couple questions. When you're referring to clapboard, are you going like hardy plank or are you were you thinking vinyl clapboard? >> I think it's a little bit early to to pin that down, but I think it'd probably be a composite panel. >> Okay. And then next sort of question I have on the east elevation, which is the front of the building, there's a lot of doors in including utility which

046kind of I don't know, reduces the obviousness of what the front is. And I'm wondering um you have that secondary office entrance with minor changes, it could go under the main entrance and those utility doors could move to the north and then that would I think simplify and clean up sort of this is the front of the building on that road. So potentially moving the office in the in the >> Yeah, if you like mirror that whole section almost and rotate. >> I mean that's a small small change, but just when I looked at that front elevation, it kind of loses front elevation. >> Mhm. >> Um entrance power. >> Yeah, I think we would consider that. But I wonder if you need that door location because of the diagonal between the one entry to

047the other because it's pretty deep. I wonder if you need that. >> Um from an egress standpoint. Yeah. I think you'll be okay, but you'll obviously have to run that. >> I believe we would be okay. Yeah. Yeah. >> So those are my comments. >> Any other questions? I do. Um, >> you said the two units on level one are accessible units, >> Correct. And is that sitting on slab on grade? >> Yes, it is. >> So, when you walk out of those accessible units, you are there. When you get out of the building, you are on there's no sidewalk there to get to a parking lot. >> Yeah. The the the sidewalk is here. We've got the drop off area and a and a handicap spot there. >> I think >> there are two

048units. So, how does somebody from one unit get to their car park? Because the other car park, the accessible parking is away from the building. >> Yeah, I think you you've picked up on it. I think the intent really was to extend this out a bit, have a centrallylo drop off zone, and have a space each side. >> Okay. So, >> I think we we would make that change. I I guess I thought that's what it was, but as I look at at the plan, we've this may be an earlier version of that. >> Okay. >> But yes, two spaces required. >> I'm assuming the rest of the building does not have accessible units, but you're showing all your turning radius all across the board to just kind of design, but accessible units are only

049on level one. >> Correct. >> Okay. And it is literally the level one is sitting on slab on grade. There is no elevation change to get into the building. >> Correct. Yeah. As George mentioned, the site is pretty flat. Um so we we can grade so that uh there's no ramp required to get from the uh stairwell corridor to the accessible spaces. >> Okay. You may want to make sure that the walkway from the building out to the car parks and the two accessible units are there because there's no walkway on the east west side of the building. Or is that north? Uh where is your >> Yeah, I think north is up in this plan. >> Okay, so the west of the building. Oh, >> okay. Any additional questions from you? >> No, I'm

050good. Thank you. >> Anyone else on the planning board? I do have a few questions myself, but I mean, >> is it only accessible by stairs or levels two and three? >> Correct. >> Any other questions in the room from the planning board? >> Just one more question. When I was reading through there was mention of a basement. Is there no plan for a basement based on the >> No plan for a basement. >> So I'll jump in with a few questions. I I specifically wanted I understand there's some controversy with the applicant relative to the special permit for the roof. Um, I do think it'll be helpful if we spend a little a bit of time focusing on that so that this the planning board can begin to understand what you have in mind

051in the event we we do get confirmation from town council that a special permit is needed for that. So, if you could walk us through those elements and then in addition, if you could comment on um the traffic flow on the site and the impact on traffic overall. in in terms of the special permit whether it's required or not we don't see that that's a big issue. We have designed the architects designed the building so that um it would mimic the areas uh around as you could see from the photographs. In addition, in the bylaw 8511, there's language that you um require or you want us to design it uh contemporaneous with the buildings in the area. And then there are four little diagrams below that that show this particular roof type. Uh I think

052it's the lower right of the four. And then further on in that bylaw, it has some uh language with another diagram with the mansard. It's it's not a big issue to us either way. We would rather not have to get a special permit if we don't need one simply because it's an easier process, but that's not the issue. Um, in terms of traffic flow, um, the, uh, way around from Tilton Avenue into Pleasant Street into the 60 Pleasant Street property has the proper radiuses for emergency apparatus to make it through. We think that's an enhancement. Uh, the, uh, overall aspect of the connection through, which uh, is one of the driving forces for Mr. Dudley to acquire this property as the owner of the adjacent property is that he has noted that a lot of

053traffic that comes to 60 Pleasant Street uh has to queue up at the end of Tilton uh onto Pleasant and then uh take a lefthand turn uh once they're on Pleasant in and that's a pretty difficult turning movement in the morning. So if he can eliminate a fair amount of that, this really is a add addition to the uh traffic enhancement in the area. So I think that um overall the is a minimum impact from this particular building's additional traffic. Um but the that is mitigated by the efforts that uh will take some of it away from the intersection. And as you know in traffic, it's all about uh queuing at intersections and levels of service. So we think that's what it would enhance it. We don't think that there's a need for a uh

054extensive traffic study on it. We certainly can generate the uh amount of traffic at peak hours based on it standards if that's something that's required, but that's entirely up to you. So Jasmine, I'd like to ask you as as the planner to clarify two things. As I understand, the narrative of the applicant for this particular application does not have written analysis of 8511. So I assume once town council opines on that particular need for a special permit, if that's necessary, we would reconvene on that particular issue, giving the applicant the ability to have a written response. Am I right on that? >> Yes, that's correct. >> Okay. So any elements pertaining to that as far as design we would come back to. And then the other question I had is is are do we have

055the jurisdiction in this context to require a traffic study and if so um at what juncture would we do that? >> You absolutely and any any site that is a traffic generating site that's non-residential um you have the right within the bylaw to request peerreview services. And in fact, we have reached out for peerreview services for storm water um and traffic for this particular site. We just haven't received anything back at this time. Um so it is something that we we would always ask for any type of commercial project or um multif family project. >> And then my last question also for the planner and the applicant is appropriate is on the noanza issue. I understand there's a there's documentation now with Concom. However, for the ADD application component, it does appear that we have

056jurisdiction on the storm water piece ourselves. Can you speak to that? Um, as far as the Nuanza issue, Jasmine, for us, so that we better understand our role for that particular element outside of Kong's role. So the board the way that we review our storm water is actually not tied to the Nyanza. Nothing that the board does reviews the Nyanza plume that's overseen by state agencies D and the EPA and regulated through them. The waiver request through this storm water um bylaw is a very typical one. Um and it has more to do with the calculations and we can get further um more professional interpretation of that from our peerreview engineer once we receive those comments. But this is a standard waiver request and it's not specifically tied to the Nyanza in any way. It's

057just more to do with the infiltration on the site. Um but we won't be reviewing this. The planning board will not be reviewing this site as in regard to Nyanza in any way. I think it's um information that was given to the board for you to be aware of, but it's not something that's within our purview to review or or condition uh or any way. We have no professionals on our team that review that type of work. That's all state state level review. >> And the reason I ask for clarification is the applicant's narrative does say storm water management is impacted by the new plume. So infiltration of increased runoff will not be provided or allowed by the EPA or D. So So you're saying Jasmine that particular sentence is really about concom jurisdiction, not

058us, >> right? We can't I mean we do technically oversee the storm water bylaw, but we can't put something in place that D or the EPA would regulate because it's not within our purview. There's nothing within our bylaw that gives us the authority to regulate anything under Nyenza because it's well outside of our purview. Um we don't have regulations. >> We essentially have storm water jurisdiction but we have to be consistent with state and federal law. >> Right. Exactly. >> Thank you for the clarification. I don't have any further questions. Does anyone else on the planning board have questions before we wrap up the presentation further? And >> I just public comment. I just had a quick one. Can you walk me through again the parking spots? So, the parking spots on the left hand

059side of the page is for Pleasant Street. It's not for this project, correct? It >> It's for both. >> So, >> we have excess parking. the if somebody's in a wheelchair using that accessible spot next to the building, how do they kind of loop around and get out to the street? There's no turning radius or anywhere to kind of back up the car because you have parking spots right till the end on the left hand side. >> The one that's on the property line. >> Yeah. >> There's a um the the the dashed area there. Can you move your mouse so that can you as you're explaining that >> this little dashed area here? >> Correct. So if somebody's in that car spot that next to it, >> how do they >> Well, that's the

060handicap spot there. >> Correct. Do they back up towards the property line on the left hand side? How do they get out of that spot? >> How do they get out of that spot? >> Yeah, >> they drive. They back up like this >> and then >> and leave whatever way they want. >> Go onto the tilt now or they go onto >> they could go like that back up and go out. >> There's a [snorts] >> I think there's an overlay issue. So there's some spaces that are getting restriped. So it's really showing both. I think the intent was that the ones that are going north south, if you will, are dotted and going to be. So, how many parking spots do we have for this project? >> 24 are require 24 are provided.

061>> How many are required? >> Let me find that. >> It's less than that because it's only one per Um, it's less than 20. I I don't have that actual number there, but you have one per studio and one and a half per twos and commercial. Um, I just don't have that number. So I can get you that for the next hearing. >> And can we somebody look at relook at that site plan to make sure the parking spots are correctly noted there? And has the fire chief looked at this plan at all? >> We have not sent No, we send it to you. >> We have, but we haven't received any comment yet. >> But you you did send it, John. >> We we do. The town does. We've sent it to the fire.

062>> Okay. So, it sounds like we need a for next time we need a better um a better replica better show of where the parking spots are and a confirmation that it's been cleared by fire >> and the path from the building to the accessible spots. Kind of just a deeper dive into the site plan is would be helpful. Okay. >> Any other questions or comments from the planning board at this time? >> We're good here. >> And Jasmine, I believe we can uh take public comment at this at this phase. Is this the >> um And do we have any public comment in the room or online at this time? >> I have no one in the room. No one's raised their hand online. >> Okay. Um, with no with no public comment, is

063there anything else the applicant wants to add before we uh open it up for discussion of the planning word? >> No. >> Okay. >> John, do you want to do a summary? >> If you'd like to summarize uh your presentation, you could certainly do that. Uh, good evening. John Dudley, I'm the owner of the property, resident in town, and I think we came we came in front and kind of showed you this a little while back, but I think we had different team. >> Yeah, >> the I think you picked up most of what we're talking about. There is an overlay issue with this. I thought we had a clean site plan in front of you, though, even if it didn't make the slides, but if not, we'll get back to you on the parking.

064The parking, by the way, it says on the plans it's required for 23 spaces and it's provided 23 spaces. Oh, >> it says it in the bottom right hand corner. >> Let's double check the numbers because um the Ashlin downtown district has when you follow the bylaw, you got a formula. So, it ends up being about 56.25% of what you would normally need based on the zoning. It's 75% of 75%. So, if we'll go back, we'll we'll confirm all that for you. But the obviously we're trying to make a decent investment in this property. We did buy it for that access. And I'll fast forward. Some people might say, "Oh, trucks not all going to go. We really don't want any major truck traffic going through there. It's mostly employee parking." And if you have

065ever been down Tilton, a lot of people, their GPS just takes them there. So, they have to take this really hard left. You know what I'm talking about? Left and a quick left. And so, it just creates this weird little traffic pattern. And I and I think it'd be very helpful for us to be able to go through there, mitigate that. Um, but obviously we want a good harmonious use right there between the mill, the red building we've got there that we reconditioned and we I like that the uses are a little different yet and and people that are working during the day, most of the people that live there will be gone during the day and then vice versa. So even with those two contractor bays, that might be end up being one decent

066retail user, but it's kind of tucked away so it's not quite a retail use, but hopefully we can find a tenant for that. Um, but in the end, we're trying to make this project work. If it becomes too cumbersome and difficult to do, it's not a big winner for us. So, I know sometimes people look at projects like this and if it gets too difficult, this won't this won't exist like this is going to happen. So, I'm trying to be I' obviously got some investment into it already. I would like to have this. It's quite a project. Construction costs are extremely expensive as you probably are well aware. Um, and building now is extremely expensive even with some of the codes and things we're talking about just trying to put this together. And I would

067love to make this viable and I would love to make this investment. It is substantial even at a pretty small building like this. You'd be shocked at the overall cost of it. Sounds like some of you guys are in this business. You know what I'm talking about. So again, trying to put something beautiful in here, increase the tax basis, a little bit of housing, a little bit of commercial, but if this gets too cumbersome, um, I won't do it. So I'm trying to um that putting it out there. Hopefully we can work together and find something a good way to do something nice for town. I think a lot of the neighbors would like this and what it'll add to the the town is kind of beat up now. I think this whole area is

068a part the parking's in the front. You probably it's a dangerous even entrance and exit for the the tenant that we're renting to right now. Um and I and I'd love for the town to sell me the lot right next to it and we can could tie in the beautiful parking, but I realize that makes a challenge for uh who gets to stay overnight and all that. So, but I am open to that um too. So, thank you. >> Does this more accurately show this how you have this? >> Yeah, if you kind >> these hatching are grayed out. So, I think these are spaces here. >> We have to Yeah, the ones that are going horizontal won't exist. You got it kind of it. It's pinned up. We basically turned it >> and then

069one of the handicaps. We have to confirm >> as strong as it's corrected. >> Unless it's correct. >> 280 units. I thought it was one. >> Yeah, that still needs accessible from the building out. >> Yeah, we got to move it, right? But Walkways need to be still >> between units that we need to at least >> that in turn will change the parking spots because you need an accessible pathway from the building out to your parking spots. >> So that car spots will not be the same. >> Yeah. >> And we only by by our numbers we only need one ADA unit accessible. >> One. >> Yeah. Just one. And I think we just left one down below in case somebody needed it for the front, but we could of course put that right

070next to it if we even want need to do two spaces. We'll confirm that. >> Okay. Um, we don't need an elevator obviously that that's also cost prohibitive and two of the spaces for the commercial are inside and therefore the floor drains for that. So for the contractor base so good is that answer >> you don't need the parking spots but you still need a walkway because there are residents who would be using that egress stair or the stair on the right hand left hand side of the building to come out of the building. So right now this drawing does not show any walkway >> until you get onto a parking spot and walk out. So it still needs walkway on the left hand side of the building. You have it on the right hand

071side but >> the two ends are not connected. So that's something that you need to still work on and that in turn will affect your parking spots. >> I think we have the space there against the building but we can >> Yeah, it's a minor tweak but >> good good. Anything else? >> I'm I'm still curious about the nons and how much asphalt can be put on this side. So something to definitely get Con to look into it. >> They can comment on it. Um the obviously on the building next door and we had to do it we did everything over there since 2014. So and um on the board of my church which owns the chunk of the property on the street so I'm very familiar with it. Um the you just have to

072follow certain procedures of how you do it and everybody else gets scared being around it and we we're in compliance. We work with the DP on a regular basis. We got monitoring walls all over the place and they've been a good partner with us on the property. They still check this property regularly. But there's certain there's a certain way they want us to do this with an LSP uh available and monitoring the whole site. He's got to put his license on it. So I think mostly >> that's a continuous monitoring. >> Yeah. Yep. And do you have remediation to do before you start construction? >> He'll he'll literally lay out a plan that we have to follow and he's got to be part of the construction crew periodically. So, but I think you'll the response

073is you're going to get a lot of uh blank stairs in the from the town level because it's not something they want to be responsible for. >> Sure. >> But um >> do do you have an LSP chosen already? >> Yeah, Tom Williamson. Yeah. Yep. He does the building next door too. >> Okay. >> And uh Pleasant Street as well. 240, 260, uh, 280, 330, 350. So, uh, we're familiar with it. And, and again, you gotta, you don't want to have these properties not get developed, not get improved. You just want to do it right. You don't want to make things worse. And, uh, it's worth on on the planning board, you definitely want to research what all that was with Nansit over the years and how everybody has to be careful with the underground

074water that's down deep because you obviously don't want to affect anything that >> goes from west to east. Yeah. Downtown. So >> good. >> Could I ask U John Dudley one question? I certainly I understand that it's Concom that has full-scale jurisdiction over that issue. Would it be cumbersome for you once you you after you're in front of them to come back to us and summarize not only their findings for us which we can review um but also give us that kind of overall arching introduction [clears throat] as to how you will manage that component on the site. We certainly believe as a planning board, I I can't speak for all of us, that um while we may not have direct jurisdiction over over this like Hong Kong does, we do need to be consistent

075with various regulations. And I think it'll be important for us to get maybe a small written document from you that just sort of summarizes your um commitment to that to those elements, whatever they may be, so that things like oversight, etc., we have documentation um and we can close the record on this at the right time in a way that Noanza is fully addressed. Is that something that you would find doable? >> Yeah, I mean we're planning on doing that anyways. You'll see on the first page in the bottom of this I think we attached Tom's letter about the project initially uh the LSP. So George, is there anything from a concom standpoint that we would >> normally even storm water? >> Okay. Storm water related. Okay. So they'll have that available to them, right?

076They'll have that available to them. >> Yeah, we will file with the conservation. >> Yeah. Storm water permit storm water analysis and design system. >> Great. >> Yeah. This was the first step. >> Okay. Did you catch that? We're planning on filing with them and then I mean if there's any additional information it's pretty normal in terms of a site plan. >> Yeah, I feel like it's been a while. I don't know. >> Does that make sense? >> It does. Uh any other questions from the planning board? >> My one quick I've never caught the angles of Mounts Roof in Ashland. Is there anywhere that we define because this is pretty vertical. We do define we have a loose definition. So in definitions we have mansard roof definition which I will pull up and read

077so I don't botch it with my memory. >> Is this angle of this top floor looks >> we don't give any specific angles. It says a roof having two slopes on all four sides with the lower slope almost vertical and the upper slope almost horizontal. I don't know where that definition came from. I don't that doesn't sound like a building code definition to me. Um so we can get clarity on that from council when we ask. >> Yeah. Um this looks pretty what almost vertical does not look like as much angles there. So something to check into >> is I mean to from like a legal perspective that's one thing you're saying you don't like how it looks or the because we can I mean >> that's pretty open to interpretation. I mean the slope

078is almost vertical. that's very open to perception and interpretation, what I think is almost vertical. You may disagree. >> Yeah. Exactly. [laughter] So, I mean, in terms of looking back and forth, it's kind of a >> uh I hate to run you around. No, that we we could represent something like this as a flat roof. >> Yeah. >> I'm trying to make something nicer looking that that maintains a floor plan that's leasable. Um if we start to shrink, that was a downside. I was kind of disappointed to see that. I mean, I know why they did the >> mansion the way they did. I realized that project went sideways, >> but the uh it shrinks the unit so much to the point we have no more leasable space and then >> we can't get higher.

079So, we would just go additional floor and then it makes a project like this viable, >> but because they put that in there, it kind of hurts the ability to do the downtown infill, which I think we were originally trying to do when we put the ADD in in place in the first place, right? >> We're trying to incentivize this exact type of project. >> So, >> you may have the advantage if you haven't defined it anywhere. you have the advantage of what you have here, but it just feels >> that's the only definition we have, which is pretty >> but and it looks like it's contradicting on two different sections already. So, I I was just curious because it's literally vertical. >> So, if we don't have angles and the slope's not defined anywhere,

080>> right, >> guess it's okay because it's also a special permit. So, something to look into, >> right? So just from an architectural perspective, I mean a mansard roof traditionally was so it was originally >> we're going to put roofing where we would normally put siding so we don't have to pay taxes on that third floor. That was like the historic >> beginning of a mansard roof. So >> um I think traditionally they are pretty much close to vertical. >> Yeah. And Ashlin has couple of them and each one looks so different. So I was curious if there was >> the trouble you get into mansards is when they're not detailed. >> Sure. >> So if it's just a box and you've literally roofed it. Um but if you have the proper cornice detail and

081face detail. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Mansard and not just tax evasion. >> It feels like you've used every inch to get to that 38 feet on that floor. >> So it be interesting to see how you detail that. Sounds like we we'll come back to the roof once we have legal counsel opinion as well. Um, thank you Deepa for that. Any additional questions from the planning board? And it sounds like we we've completed the presentation from the applicant. Is that right? >> Yeah, it's complete. Yep. All set. Thank you. >> And I don't see any anybody raising hands for public comment. So, I think we're good on that. and we can have a discussion as the planning board um on this project. I I started making a list of items that seem outstanding um

082such as obviously concom opinion, legal council opinion. We would need to come back with both of those for discussion. The fire department is being asked to look at this. traffic studies happening and Jasmine did you say there is a storm water third party peer review? >> Absolutely. >> Um have I missed any any other uh additional items as far as peer review is concerned? Fire traffic, storm water. Um I think that covers all the third party evaluations. Jasmine, is that right? >> For everything that we're waiting to hear back on. Yes, it does. And then Deepa had requested a better um drawing relative to parking in a walkway. So those are my only um only items as far as where what we need to do next. And I wanted to make sure the planning board

083agreed with that list. And if if the planning board wanted to discuss any of those items or anything else, we could do that now. >> Very good. Thank you. >> Okay. Um, so then, so Jasmine, what would be the next step for this? Do we need do we have a return date for the applicant in mind that discussed with >> Would probably like to come back for our next meeting on December 11th. At that time, we should hopefully have peer review by Mike Carter. And um, traffic has been taking very long, but I'm hoping we'll at least have the initial review, but I think at that point, they may even have time to respond to storm water as well. So I think if you'd be open to continuation till December 11th. Is that the next

084date you >> when do you expect the reviews to come in? >> They've been taking longer than usual. Um so I'm hoping within the next two weeks. >> We need a week or so to respond and then to review the response. >> We're only meeting once in December on the 11th and then we meet again on January 8th. >> I think January. >> January. Okay. Any issue with that continuation to December 11th planning board >> or January 8th, excuse me. >> Um, and Jasmine, do we need to formally close the public hearing tonight or >> No, no, keep it open so that you can still uh receive information. >> Understood. And so with that in mind, can I have a motion to continue? Motion to continue 55 Tilton app to January 8th. >> And is

085there a second? >> Second the motion. >> And a roll call vote. >> Deep banket. I >> test the I. >> Angel cazadian I. >> And it passes. Um, thank you 55 Tilton A applicant for that. And um let me see if I can I can text Trisha to return. Okay. So, um, seeing what we need to do. We got done with meeting minutes already. Um, okay. Further down on our agenda, we have a few things we need to review and sign off on. >> Yes. But um while we're on the special permits, maybe I can we don't we don't have anyone here from um >> from the Y do we? So it's just our own kind of conversation, right? Oh, and thank you Anna for uh for taking over there. Kind of just jumped

086right back into business, but um I appreciate you taking over. Um so yeah, so we have this these little things that we need to take care of. um that are not public hearings. I'm just kind of wrapping up a few things. We had put the YMCA on there so that we could start to discuss findings if we have time in this meeting. If we don't, we don't. So, is this something we can do we need to can we just I think we can take anything out of order, right? So, I think we can go down, take care of these items, and then if we still have energy and want to start going through some of the YMCA findings, we can. Um, but there's no one here from the Y that we're holding up in >>

087Okay. >> Yes. Okay. All right, then. Let's do that first. Um, let's go down to But we we will need to come back to that. So, don't let me forget that we need to come back to the Y because we at least we'll at least need to continue it. Um, so why don't we take care of um 117 Oregon Road? That's the cell tower. Um, cell tower. Sorry, is that just my copy? Everyone else, >> but everyone has one. >> Everybody has one. >> Okay. Um, so we were gonna This is from basically we recently did T-Mobile at this cell tower. is the cell tower right at um the Oregon Club. It It's right in the backyard of the Oregon Club. I didn't even know it was there, you know, but it's there. Um and

088we just did one for T-Mobile. This is on the same pole. Um um we went through like it's it's swapping out three uh taking off three, putting on three antennas, except it's for Verizon, >> right? Um, but otherwise it's it's all the same. We kind of went through the documents last time and I think the only question was a question Deepa had about the lease agreement. Oh, and I see Dominica there. Dominica, can you just um explain to us um how the lease document works and why we would look at the lease document and see uh T-Mobile on there instead of Verizon? Can you explain to us how that works? That that's because madame chair the original tower was part of the T-Mobile portfolio and that is actually the still the existing legal entity for

089it and when Crown purchased it, it left the name intact. So Crown owns numerous portfolios. We have AT&T portfolios and the leases reference that. That's why we have the attorney and fact language also in the lease that references crown subsidiaries which I provided with you. So, um it's the legal entity of the of the tower, the name. >> Okay. Not it's it's really not my wheelhouse, the uh the business end of things. So, >> but that's a very I could add that and say the subsidiary of Crown Castle's lease agreement and the decision if you'd like. >> Yeah. something that just if somebody's looking at these packages one year from now on and we all don't remember >> why we did what we did, it'd be helpful to have a >> Okay. So, so we'll

090just add into >> this um >> the decision. So, now we're looking at the decision um for >> Oh, and I haven't there's another extra copy here. >> Oh, yeah. Do you have one, Angel, to >> Oh, maybe I took hers. >> Okay. Yeah, we have some extra ones around. It's It's very interesting reading. [laughter] >> So, on page two on the bottom where it says lease agreement between Katherine B, I would just add right there. Um, the subsidiary of Selco. >> So, that would be at the bottom of page two. >> Yes. Beneath that. Okay. So, that way that would be >> Yeah. So, >> that would clarify. >> Right. I think >> right. Sad is just suggesting that um that on the bottom of page two when it talks about the lease agreement

091that we just add in a little bit of the language so that it's in there that we understand that even though this says T-Mobile that it's the right >> Yeah, >> it's the right document. >> Yeah, it's just referencing like that that is the legal entity uh name of the tower when um Crown purchased it. >> Exactly. That's perfect. I can make that change right now and if the rest of it looks okay, I can print it. >> Okay. Yep. That that's that looks good. Um otherwise I think um otherwise all the facts and findings besides changing the six to a three um besides that it's Verizon versus um T-Mobile, everything else is identical to the one we just did. Is that is that correct? Right. But it's I the >> I mean there wasn't

092there wasn't much to the first one anyway. There's not a lot um >> right? But the plan the plan numbers and everything of obviously the sheet set plans everything all of those details have been updated but essentially >> right because it looks like >> the same authorization three >> um taking down three replacing three. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, and I think right, we voted on this last time. So, we're just making that change. That's right. We voted on it last time. So, we're just making the change in the in the documents that we can so that we can sign it. >> I don't think we didn't vote last time because we weren't sure on the lease agreement. >> Oh, that's right. >> I thought we did conditional, did we? >> Did you vote? Let

093me double check it. >> Because it felt like it was a very small thing. And since she was not there, I thought we voted >> that we voted based on that condition to find out about that. >> Yeah, >> that's what I recall. >> That is what you recall as well. Okay. >> Yeah, we voted with that condition. We could doesn't hurt to vote again if we so choose right now. If >> that's very true. >> We have four We have four of us. So, why don't we just do that? Well, we'll count the first one, but just just to make just to make sure so we don't have to um Well, it'll be a safety vote. So, um >> I can make that motion. >> Oh, that'd be great. Thank you. >> In case

094>> Yep. And so we're talking about This is for 111 Oregon Road. Correct. >> That's right. >> 117. >> Oh, sorry. 117. Sorry. 117. My apologies. So, I will make a motion to approve for 117 Oregon Road special permit modification. So, we are approving the special permanent special permit modification per chapter 282 section 6.4 wireless communication facilities and 9.3 of the Ashlin bylaws. >> All right. Is there a second? >> Second that. >> And a roll call vote. Anna Tesnitzki. >> Oh, >> that's okay. Anna Tesnitzky. I >> Okay, >> then you should finish, right? Paul Montino. >> Yeah. And Trisha Kendall. So, like I said, I think we did it last time, but just to make sure. Uh things have been a little crazy lately. So, um >> are we signing this tonight? Um

095>> I do have it available to sign, but Anna, if you need me to, I can drop it off. >> And I was curious last time I think Scott voted in. So, um, now since we did not have him in the vote, did does he sign this or not sign this? >> I'll check with if the last meeting if we already voted, I'll have Scott sign it. If we didn't, then he doesn't need to. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I think he I think we did. And so then we would have him Yeah. have him sign it when he comes back. >> Is there a statutory requirement, Jasmine, where it has to be signed like a certain date, so we have to file it by a certain time? No, there actually isn't, which is wild. But

096it's it's also a strange thing that um that just the chair can sign things. >> You don't need, you know, >> go for it. >> I for a modification, if it's an act, if it was the beginning of a site plan, you would need all >> Is that what we did for the others as well? If it's a site plan, you need four, but if it's a modification, an extension, um, an ANR, >> yeah, >> you only need the >> I would have no problem, Trisha being the only one to sign. >> Do we have to have Do we have to make a note of that anywhere or is it just good if I sign? >> It's just good if you sign on the registry. That's how it's >> okay. If everyone's good with that,

097I'll just >> I have no problem with that. >> Take care of it and we'll be done. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Thank you. Good evening. You too. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, that's taken care of. The next thing we have is the 501 Pond Street um extension. Um and that is was that this? >> Yes, that is. Let me So, I don't think we've had a chance to read this yet. So, basically, there were two issues that we discussed on 501 Pond Street. one was um the extension and then the other one was a um um a modification related to the gas for domestic hot water. This is only those are two separate documents. This is only about the extension which is the one they um needed uh really

098um more quickly. Um the other one uh as a modification um JZmine is working on but we also want town council to take a look at that first and the verbiage. Um so I don't think we have that one ready. >> No, town council has not reviewed that yet. >> So um >> it hasn't gotten back to me with their review. >> Right. So the the extension obviously is just a little simpler. Um so we can take a minute to read that. Oh, Anna, I'm so sorry. >> And I'm so sorry. It's the memo on 501 Pond that you're all reviewing. >> I'm so sorry, Anna. I don't think that did not go out in meeting materials. Let me put this on the screen. So I should probably step out only because well I think

099the best way for me I don't think I need to actually leave the room but I can just >> not participate. Right. >> Right. That's >> Do you need me to leave the room Jasmine? I think usually I do that when there's an [clears throat] applicant but in this context I can just be present but not participate. Right. >> Exactly. Just know don'tate. >> Okay. I'm trying to remember. So, we approved this project December 8th, 2022. What is the April 24th, 2025 date? >> That was their first amendment. So, there's already been an amendment to the decision and that was when that was made. >> Oh, that was the All right. That was the >> This will be their second amendment. So the original decision was December 8th, 2022 and then it was amended in

100April 24th, 2025. So this will be the second amendment, >> right? But this isn't the >> it was also extended. So that amendment also was an extension as well. No, the um we must have extended in de around December in 2024 >> because the amendment otherwise it would have expired because we get right it was 2022 >> if you granted an extension in 25 until 26 it would >> we didn't that I don't think that 2025 was an extension that was a that was about change of ownership and um and um the the deep afford affordability. >> So this would have been um we so we approved it on 2022. >> So maybe just take that second but we extended it from >> right and it was good for two years right? >> Yeah. >>

101So um So somewhere on there that it was ex it was expiring. I think it must have been expiring. >> Oh, November November 26 of 2024. I'm so sorry. >> Where that was expiring >> where it was extend. There's a signed vote here to extend. I'm sorry. I'll >> So there's an extension. Okay. So, the extension was from So, we approved it in December 2022, it had a two-year time period on it. >> Yes. >> And then before it expired in 2024, we gave them a two-year extension with six-month check-ins. >> Yes. >> But the amendment doesn't even have to be a part of that. >> No, the amendment and the extension are two separate >> Okay. >> documents. >> Um, >> yes. So, November 26, 2024, the planning board's approval of site plan and

102special permit extension. Okay. So, then we would be extending one more year to 2027. And that's what they had asked for because the December 2026 date was just too close to the fall of 2025 or the summer of fall of 2025 when they >> need to have all of their >> right when they would Right. Okay. So, we're giving them another year um from 2026 to 2027. >> So, it all sounds familiar. I just I'll reprint it right now. >> For some reason, your logo is >> Yeah. >> The logo is getting chopped off. >> And I'm not sure on the other table. I'm not sure. >> I usually have it as Trisha actually. >> Do you? >> I think so. Yeah. >> Mine has Oh, is your mic on? on the very top. >>

103Oh, at the top. >> Yeah, at the top. Okay. >> Yeah, at the top. You're talking right up here. Right. Yeah. I think I think this thing is like the header's too small. The header space. >> I'll just reprint it. >> Not that it's a big deal, but >> Okay. So, um >> Okay. So, that's reprinted with those two amendments. It says Trisha. It's updated to November 6, 2024. And the header is >> jumped off, but >> and the verbiage change changed. >> The verbiage changed too, right? Because we don't need Okay. Okay. >> All right. So, we'll take a look at that when it gets in. Like I said, the modification, we're going to wait. Um, and then the Caroline Estates Preliminary Subdivision review. >> Do you have to close this out? um >>

104501 pond. We voted on that last Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it was just to review the um >> the decision. >> Yeah. Review the decision to we make so that we could look at the >> and that kind of went away because he started talking about it. >> So, I don't need to issues. >> I'm back. If if you guys are finished with that, >> I think we're finished with it. You just need to print it and >> um and we can we can sign that afterwards. Um >> Anna doesn't need Anna can't sign it. So, uh that works out well. >> Um okay. So then the next thing on there is and we don't need to it's not a public hearing so there's nothing to close on that one. Okay. >> So the

105last thing is the Carolina Estates Preliminary Subdivision. Do we have that? Uh, >> I'm sorry. I do not have I do not have that memo for the board to review. But if I could email it and you guys respond to just me, don't respond at all to avoid open meeting law violation. Um, because it's not anything that's signed by the board. It's just a a memo that goes out um from the department from the director stating what happened. So, if I can just send it out to each of you and you give me your feedback, I would appreciate it. And we'll um we are waiting to get the fees back before we issue anything. There was an issue with their fees. So, >> this one is for >> This is the Carolina States that we

106didn't >> Is he for that year? >> Oh, it was Yeah, it was heard at the last hearing and it was denied >> at November 6th. And I'm sorry you are. >> Who would have who would have been my contact there? >> I mean there's nothing I mean you can't do anything about it tonight. You can't hear it again. Um but also the fees have not been received they we received them and they were bounced back. Um so even if >> so the checks bounced >> the checks bounced and we were told that we would get new checks this morning that we didn't receive. >> Yeah. No, I was notified. >> Yeah. Whoever I'll ask my assistant planner who we spoke to this morning um and yesterday, but they >> I would have I would

107have to check who the contact is. um to see but they they were aware and they're aware that the fees weren't processed either. >> I mean I can call him tomorrow, >> Right. >> Yeah. I I guess we'll have to double check who >> um >> Yeah. Yeah. Who was check? >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. who was in who was in contact because we did uh >> the owner's name is >> yes because this was on the agenda for last time and we did discuss and vote on it. We um >> I know that I know that Jasmine has been in touch with them about several different issues on it. So we weren't >> we weren't completely surprised that no one was here. We figured it was kind of being pulled, I guess. Um, and

108so we continued on with the public hearing. >> So, um, I don't know if >> the discussion that was held was that the driveways weren't sufficient for the fire department and a wetlands delineation is being recommended in order to determine the accurate uplands of the sites. So, that was the determination. So they recommended if you were to return with another preliminary to come back with the anrad completed so we can see the actual definitive uplines and all that >> right >> we wanted to demonstrate Right. >> Right. >> It's a dead end. They have to back up. Yeah. So I think at this point I mean you can and working um so you're the engineer on the project right. So obviously working with the owner >> in the owner >> you know can submit another

109another preliminary subdivision you know to do to go through the >> based on the feedback. based on the feedback, right? Both from us and from Concom, which is also going to be important, right? >> Um because there was that second issue there >> and so to submit a a second preliminary subdivision that's more in line with with the concerns that were addressed at the meeting. >> So, but it's it's it's a little strange that they weren't in no one was in contact with you. >> I mean, I know I know we delivered the plans, we delivered the checks. Right. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. I thought you were with the last group. I assume >> I know I were as well. I'm so sorry. [laughter] >> Oh jeez. >> I'm sure you didn't miss anything.

110>> So that was the purpose for the preliminary was feeling. I've never done one in this town. I didn't know what your feelings were with wative of course. >> Yeah. Well, we don't >> I just want to see >> um if you're going to have the conversation either we get we really shouldn't though because it's not on the agenda. >> Yeah. So, >> yeah, >> that's what I was going to do. >> Right. >> Yeah. So like I said, we can't we can't do any of that now. >> But so the course but the course is and I I given the discussion we had I think it would have been our course anyway that the preliminary subdivision has to have those more of those issues addressed. Um and like I said not just with the

111driveways but with concom issue here that needs to be addressed. >> Right. Right. So >> one of the comments was Yes. >> Yeah. So, why don't the you and the owner can work with Jasmine about and that information will be in the in the decision so that you can take that as feedback and then do another preliminary subdivision when you have that. >> We'll file tomorrow. >> Not to the public. No. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> It's not a problem. >> Okay. Okay, that's not a problem. >> We will have to make sure that they clear before we put them on another agenda for concom. So, >> yeah. So, please coordinate with Jasmine and and we'll likely see you um sometime in >> December 11th is our next meeting and then after that is January

1128th. December 11th is >> we have YMCA. >> Oh, don't worry. Becca is fantastic. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Good. >> Perfect. That would be great. Well, I'm sorry we had you sit all night. [laughter] >> Thank you for your time to any of us. We're all here. >> Yeah. put you in a >> strange position. So, >> I wonder if it has anything to do with the check. >> It may be. I don't know. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You as well. Thank you so much. All right. Sorry folks at home. That was a little impromptu discussion about a a discuss that something that we did last week. So, um >> I can run and grab those from the print. >> Anyway, so yeah. So, you are grabbing um

113basically just uh sorry, cell tower and >> and the front sheet of this >> and the um >> 501 pond. >> Yeah. And then I think all we have left is if you wanted to go through >> Oh, right. Thank you. I would have forgotten >> also met uh the YMCA if we're going to discuss or continue. >> Yeah. And I'm not sure we'll we'll have the energy for that, but why don't we first just Are there any um are there any reports here? Uh CPC Scott's not here. Metro West, you it was last time, right? So, there's probably nothing there. Comprehensive plan is just um on uh on for town meeting. So, mark your calendars for town meeting next week. um vote through comprehensive plan. Um and I don't think there's really oh um

114housing production plan. Um I think people have been getting maybe emails about that. Um that uh um gosh um is working. >> Thank you. Goldstein uh Jen Goldstein um will be reaching out to people um for potential small interviews about the housing about housing in Ashland related to the housing production plan. So um so you may may get an email or a phone call about that. Um otherwise I think otherwise we're meeting um on December 11th and that's that's the only other thing on agenda. Does anyone have any announcements and then we'll discuss or anything else they need to report and then we'll discuss if we want to do YMCA? >> No. >> Okay. No other announcements. Are it is 9:14. Do we want to do anything on YMCA or do we want to push

115that out or do we want to spend 15 minutes and say it's 15 minutes and then we go? any feedback >> or do you want to see at least what we were going how we were going to break it down and then you can decide to see how much time you think >> you know I was debating on this it's like let's see what they come back on the traffic reports and this one before we start to draft this because if you're drafting this we are saying that we're good to go and I don't know if we are good to go at this point so I don't know if we are sending a wrong message at this point by get taking the next step ahead of time. So that it just crossed my mind but

116I don't know how >> I mean yeah this is draft but um >> does it make sense to do a framework design? Well, let's let's >> Scott's not around. You can be here. >> Why don't we Why don't we do this? Um, >> we could at least go through the criteria that we'd be reviewing for a decision. Maybe like this is the criteria that you would be basing the conditions on. >> Yeah, let's at least let's go through the special permit only has six criteria. Let's just go through those because there may be some blank things in there that we need to fill in and we need more information on. >> Right. >> All right. I think the first So, sorry. >> So, that would be 9.3.2 is the criteria for special permit. >> So,

117one community needs served by the proposal. I think we're >> like, yeah. Um uh I don't think there's any question that lots of community needs would be served by the proposal with the facilities and community gathering and um place for teams to gather uh um members of our senior comm community early education center. All things that are going to be that people in Ashton have been wanting. So um I think you're you're good to fill that one in. >> Right. >> Okay. So, we're going with that one. Number two is traffic flow and safety. Don't have that data yet. Right. Um the parking and loading I think we had talked about that seems seems sufficient but we maybe haven't finished that discussion but we certainly have to wait on the traffic. So that will wait.

118And as far as parking, um, you know, maybe we should just talk a little bit with them about, you know, how many parking spaces are there, how many are we required, like some basic information. That's probably right on the sheet. Um, but we should make sure that's really clear as we um, look at that point. Um, adequacy of utilities and other public services. Do we have anything from DTPW about water about you know that usually we're getting >> they haven't expressed any concerns with this site. Everything on that road is relatively new. They do have concerns with the site across the street but they have no concerns with this one as far as sheeting um or access >> storage. >> Snow storage isn't part of utilities though. That's more storm water. >> But DPW reuse

119them, right? No, they would get their own plowing services to do snow removal. We don't do snow removal for any businesses or >> private properties. We only do roads. >> Can we um just reach out to DPW? And this is what I mean like taking care of the new loose ends. Um can we can you ask DPW to send an email about anything regarding that? You can quote that item from their perspective. any concern that they have for utilities and public services. I think sometimes I think sometimes public services we also include uh police and fire services but I don't they've already [clears throat] been involved with this >> they've reviewed this and given their >> and sometimes the police is more it's more about hey there's so many units like housing units versus something

120like this >> right >> so um and they have already been involved in in that part of things >> okay so number four is neighborhood character and social structures Um, >> and do we have to check off all the boxes? We don't have to, right? >> We have to have a response to all of the >> the six criteria, but >> it doesn't have to check all the boxes for the project, though. If not, you should have an extremely good reason why not. >> Okay. >> That it wasn't it this requirement wasn't met because >> XYZ. >> Yes. So I I think what Paul what you're referring to is that there's really there's no there's not really a neighborhood character there in a way, right? Like >> it's a total >> it's a commercial building.

121It's a commercial building with a very different design element. >> So you think about how the and you're not really looking about how it physically looks and it's more about elementally what does it tie the neighborhood together like is there adequate access from Dunkin Donuts to the site? Is there adequate access through trolley Brook Trail through the back of the site? How does it does it fit in >> the neighborhood is that question. Yeah, I think that's actually a good point because one of one of the things is about does the building fit, but we have been pushing hard about connecting it in and I think that does have a lot to do with the social structures. So, >> so we could both in that point both talk about that there's no there's no architectural

122language or fabric to tie into there. Like like you said, it's a commercial building. Um but the importance of the importance to the board of the the connections about getting there or >> and how the back field plays into other things that you have right >> going on. So it's really more does it does it contribute and does it flow well you know how do you how you think like does it does it not I mean >> property is pretty well isolated from the main part of time because it is memorial time and it's taken up so it's >> from a visual point of view it's >> separated >> it is >> so the the obviously the the emotional side of it is it connected visually >> yeah I mean I'm not going to say

123how architectural But it's it's away from >> but >> you could say you could also lean on the social structures part of it like it's going to enhance community engagement, provide social spaces, right? >> True. >> You know, >> and I can also pull up old other previous decisions that you've written for examples on these conditions. >> I think I think >> you know I don't think we had too many commercial buildings in town. No, >> a lot of them have been residential. So, >> I doubt you're going to find something from history. >> And this one was a little tricky, too, because we >> probably 501 be the only one >> because well, and that was just on the bottom. But what we but the other thing we talked about here was that um

124that in this design in particular as opposed to other projects that we've talked about that they're fully saying that you know the design may change because we're entirely dependent on donations. and we started to have that discussion about well how do we mediate that a little bit you know how do we in that process and we haven't gotten to that conclusion yet but that might tie into this as well um >> I guess to u Jasmine's point of connecting to that Dunkin Donuts and and the other side the Charlie Brook trail I think that's a good >> particular essence of that >> section so yeah >> we could leave it at that and um worry about >> at least at the present time. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Okay. So then so the next one

125again this is just stuff to just start putting to start populating it. Right. It doesn't >> it also doesn't >> bind us to anything. >> Right. >> Not until you sign it. >> That's right. [laughter] Um number five is impacts on the national on the national on the natural environment. Anna, do you want to take that one because this is something you have been you were talking about with the tree count impacts on the natural environment. How would we address that in special permit because it has a big effect on the national the natural environment? So I think the way I would frame that is we do need to give the applicants some credit for the very thoughtful I thought a thought some thoughtful design elements where they are working hard to make sure the

126site reflects the natural environment as far as allowing it to be um honored in the design. I I definitely believe the way the project is cited or structured on the site and some of the ways that they're opening it up to the outside, whether it's through elements of windows, etc. Um, and just the general feel of it, you know, with the fields and and the ability for people to picnic outside and things like that. I think we need to honor that that's happening. And then at the same time, we also need to simply very openly be clear that there is a balance, if you will, of both opening up the site, making it more open to the public, using it for a positive community use, and at the same time recognizing that this is currently

127a natural undeveloped site, and that, you know, x amount of trees are removed. However, the applicant is replacing certain trees and kind of include that as well. But I I view that section as having both the element of recognition and honoring the efforts of the applicant, but but then also being very factual about the fact that it's a green undeveloped wild site that we are developing thoughtfully and with a sense of balance. >> Yeah, I I agree. I think it's good to have both of those things in um to know both of those things that we're that there are significant changes to the site >> but it's at it's been done respectfully and it's there's a um ultimate benefit to the community. >> Exactly. Jasmine, do you want me to send a couple sentences on

128that just to kind of develop it in the decision? >> That would be great. Please. Thank you. >> Okay. Yeah, I can do that. >> Thank you. >> Does that help, Trisha? >> Yeah. Yeah, that would be great. >> Okay. Okay. And the the last one of those six is the potential fiscal impact including impact on town services, tax base, and employment. Now, this is >> Yeah. And it's very different like as Deepo was saying from the the typical housing >> uh projects that we're typically looking at. So these projects obviously have much less impact financially on public services, police, fire, DPW, things of that nature. Um >> is that in our purview? Number six, tax impact. >> Number six, >> town services. Yes, I can. >> Yes, that's what it means by including impact

129on town services. So it doesn't heavily impact your police, fire, um EMS. These uses tend to be much less impactful than um any type of living facility or senior living facility or assisted living facility. Anytime you see um homes in multif family, that's always a much higher impact on those public services than any commercial building or use. >> Yeah. It's basically looking that that before issuing a special permit that we have to believe that the project is a net gain for the town like in in all basically well not in all ways because we're clearing land and we're losing trees, you know, >> but but it >> it's a higher tax base than some other uses. >> It's it provides employment opportunity potential employment opportunities for residents. Um, but if you have questions about this,

130feel free to email me or email Trisha. Just don't email everybody so we're not violating open meeting law. Then we can give clarity on any of these um specific topics about >> I think there's definitely a lot of um I mean I'm not sure how big of a fiscal impacts they are, but it it seems like like I know the Y out in Hopkington, you know, hires a lot of teenagers, you know. Um so is that a big fiscal impact to Ashlin? No. But it it is a real benefit to to people that live here, right? And the and to [clears throat] teenagers that are here or whatever. So, it's a plus. >> And we do collect taxes from them even though they're >> as far as I'm aware, they're not tax exempt. I don't

131believe they are. I'll double check, but I don't believe. >> Yeah. Can you double check that? It would be good to know. >> I thought they were tax exempt. >> Maybe they are. Maybe I'm mistaken. >> Because of the kind of facility. I'm curious about the infrastructure because definitely there's lot more water usage and um so I wonder how that is accounted for when we talk about multif family you know that you have so many families and then you have that sewage [music] that Kate would always bring up but I wonder how that is compared for a commercial project in town because I don't know if we've had a such a large commercial project in town before this. I mean, I guess all the grocery stores. Yeah. But >> yeah, >> I mean, we could

132ask they must have the data for the gallons per day that they anticipate and per square footage. I'm sure we could figure out what the average gallons per day for a multif family of the same size could be. So, you could figure out is this >> similar stress or less >> retail stores in town, that's your large box stores. So I wonder if that's your apples to apples comparison versus >> multif family >> are much more water >> efficient >> res balance out pretty quick. >> Yeah. >> Generally these buildings are less use but I don't want to I can't say for fact this one is but >> this was not following any lead certification. They wouldn't I I don't think I don't think you get a building the size to meet a lead certification.

133You could Yeah, they're not they're definitely not going for that. >> Yeah, so yeah, I don't know if there were sustainable goals that we ever talked about for this project. >> Such a large commercial >> cost sign. >> Yeah, >> but it's such a large project we should use that where you talk about low efficiency fixtures. But uh I'm just curious, how does infrastructure work for this project? >> Infrastructure really only applies to what's going underground. So water, um drainage, electric, those types of utilities. So we're really not looking at anything inside of the building when we're talking about utilities. So we're not looking at the types of water heaters they're using. We're not looking at the types of >> but I think what what it does bring into fact that we did mention to

134them and I don't think they've well they they have we have talked a little bit about sustainability but we have a best practices list a best practices for sustainability and that does have on it about water usage and things and so it would be good to hear from them about their take on that not just the energy efficiency which is all built into the building code at this point but on the water use and things as well which I question which we are minimum standards >> not under the planning board. So if it's not in your regulation or a bylaw you can't enforce it. You might have a list of standards but you can ask nicely but you cannot deny a or condition >> right >> if that's something that's not us someone else. So,

135we have um we have and this should be something that's in our that we put in our binders. >> We have what we call a best practices sustainability best practices list. And this was this was something that was created by the planning board in collaboration with the design review committee and the sustainability committee. And we this was several years ago. We um that we made this list that we we give to basically all projects. We should make sure that they have it. >> I don't think I've never actually this is the first time hearing about it. So I can tell you firsthand no project has received since I've been here. >> I know that hasn't been in any of the previous. >> So we had we wanted to make sure that town planner when they're

136talking to new applicants really shares this. Again, like you said, we can't enforce it because it's not a law, but I think we are one of those communities where >> we are a little behind on all these green initiatives and it's like these are commercial projects and there's no it's different for multif family projects, right? But >> this is commercial projects. We should use the opportunity. >> Um like I this is probably got a swimming pool in there. There's like water usage there. It's going to be there's absolutely possibility of using PV panels here for electric and not pass it on to the grid versus >> um but we've never talked to the Y about this. >> They did talk about solar panels. They talked about that um they want to do it but again

137it would probably be a something that's after with the funding right that the you know >> and they had also mentioned that the credits >> the tax credits are ending so that's part of the >> that is part of [clears throat] the issue. Yeah >> so let's definitely look at getting them that breast practices list. In fact we'll send out to all the board. >> That would be great. It probably it's probably slightly outdated because the new energy codes happened since since we made it. >> Actually, may need you to help me find it because it's not >> I'm sure Peter had it there somewhere, but I'll I know I have it and can send it can send it out. >> Oh, I'll ask Sam for it. >> What? >> I'll ask Samantha. She must

138have it. She's the sustainability. >> Yeah, but on >> I'm not sure when we did it if she was there. But but yeah, ask her. But I but if not I I know I have it. >> Yeah, it's been a while. Um so >> okay. So that those six then are the um that's the special permit list. Um, so now it's 9:33. The um site plan review list is 12 items long. Um, but in a way they're in a way they're a little simpler. We do not have to address those today. But for instance, a a lot of the information and it might be something that um we can kind of take a crack at Jasmine and I based on things that were already said because for instance, minimize use of wetlands, steep slopes, flood

139plains, and hilltops. That's criteria number one. And it kind of goes back to what we've already talked about about yes, we know we're changing this natural site, but you know, kind of thing. Minimize OB. Number two, minimize obstruction of scenic views. There's there's woods there, but I I wouldn't call it a scenic view. Okay. I guess we'll record a few of these things here. Preserve unique natural or historical features. I don't think there's I don't know what those stairs are about at the >> No one No one can tell me. I've asked everybody. >> Trisha, can I make just kind of one comment? I think that the concept of um >> scenic is a bit subjective in theory. I don't think we have a def clear definition. I I think the way to think about

140it is it's a wild site right now, right? It's an undeveloped wild site. Um I do think we should just refer to it that way and make it very clear that the applicant is honoring the outdoor nature of it and attempting to create a sustainable, thoughtful project. Yep. That's >> that reflects the great outdoors. But I I would say, you know, something super wild can be considered scenic and the applicant is doing its best to honor that. Something like that. >> Yeah, that's fine. I think like you said, it's kind of the definition and we've come across this before the definition of scenic. Is it, you know, how do you define that? Just, you know, general general natural environment or is there actually something pointed that uh that creates a scene, you know, say? But

141yeah, I think that's fine. >> I mean, the outdoor amphitheaters and things like that could be, but I wonder if Anna know what you're talking about really goes into the open um part of the open space part of the project versus the scenic view category. >> Scenic >> Well, it could also go under number four. Minimize tree vegetation and soil removal and grade changes. Right. So it kind of touches two, four, five. >> Yeah. Like like all of these are, you know, it's it's kind of that, you know, has it been minimized? Yeah, it probably has been. Um, but are you are we moving around a lot of soil anyway? Yeah, we are, you know, or they are, you know. So >> I think a lot of this stuff it's almost like they're doing it

142to the best of their ability. They're doing it within within reasonable maybe say something like >> reasonable efforts are being made to reasonable efforts were made to meet this requirement >> in light of the balance required for this project between development and retention of open space something like that >> design responds to the topography of the site I guess so right covers pretty much lot of those points out there >> yeah I mean the reality the reality is they are improving the views because right now it's just a bundle trees and it is and it isn't appealing depending on people's perspective. >> They are doing a great job to really bring the environment bring the ecosystem into play with the building dependable. >> Yeah. And and that's but that number two is a little a

143little odd because it says minimize the obstruction of a scenic view. It's not that the woods are the scenic view itself. >> Yeah. >> It's it's you're supposed to minimize the obstruction of some scenic view. Um, so it's a Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. Um, number six is screened objectionable features from neighboring properties and roadways. Usually we consider those to be the where the garbage is, where the generator is, you know, type of thing. And and they've already talked about how they're leaving that group of trees there to try to >> I think you should consider requesting other type of screening though around the garbage. Usually they tax will request some kind of >> we have that in our bylaw in in the bylaws already but we need to we should look at it more

144carefully >> to ensure that they've because I didn't see it specified on the plans >> and I would just hate to assume >> you're saying around the garbage only >> around the garbage. >> Yeah. Got to wonder what plowing operations are going to get but it's garbage. So >> you really just want it screened so that way, you know, and also it helps prevent rodents from getting in it and things like that. >> Yeah. Like I said, I think it's actually called out in our bylaws somewhere about that, but we haven't actually looked at it. >> I've seen that spec on there. So >> So um consideration shall be given to the impacts of the project on town services and infrastructure. Kind of that's >> some of these double dip. >> They do double dip.

145um electric, telephone, cable, television, uh gas, water, sewage drainage, and other such utilities be underground except in cases of extreme physical and environmental constraints. That would be a good thing to ask, right? >> It's it's on the list. I don't think we've ever I assumed it's all underground, but >> they have it looked that way, but I'll make sure we confirm that it certainly is. >> Well, these are things when we talk to them that we can we can, you know, go over to um or they can be given this list, >> right? Um, number nine, exposed areas, machinery, service areas, truckloading areas, utility buildings and structures and other unsightly uses shall be set back or screened to protect the neighbors and those using the public ways from objectionable features. Um, such areas shall not

146impede the flow of traffic on public ways. Um, I don't think any of those items exist um in the project. Are there rooftop units on the top of the building that are screened? You wouldn't see it anyway. It's so tall, right? I >> don't think we've get got into that level of detail in any of their views and things like that. So, >> remember seeing any call outs on the drawings? >> I don't either. >> Yes, that's another question related to these. Okay. >> 10. When applicable, the site plan shall show measures to reduce and abate noise generated from the site that will impact surrounding properties. Um, >> is this during construction or during normal operation? >> Normal operation. >> Come back to screens. >> Yeah. >> The noise generator. >> I'm sorry. The the

147noise generator is typically the >> like however they're servicing that building, their mechanical system. So, if it's on the roof, that's actually a pretty substantial noise. The screening. >> Okay. Some noise could be from. All right. And then number 11, the site plan shall comply with all zoning requirements for parking, loading, signage, dimensions, and environmental performance standards and all other provisions of this bylaw. That's usually GCG that is looking at those um things for us except perhaps well they they even look at signage actually they look at everything. >> We haven't seen anything on signage have we? >> I don't know >> because this very specifically talks about signage dimensions and environmental performance. We've never we have >> but I don't know that there is other than stop signs coming out of the site. Would

148there be any signage >> is Yeah, they're not proposing. >> Is this building signage and wayfinding in the property or is it >> I'm guessing this is a lot more than stop signs probably also. >> Oh yeah. Building signs, >> way finding going into the other Yeah. So we haven't seen that level of drawings or elevations that talk about that. All right. So, really we have a >> a good list of things to get into more detail with them about >> Yeah. I mean, something to share with them ahead of time before we start to drill them in person. So, I think >> Yeah. So, maybe >> giving them a heads up. That's what we >> maybe we can share these um two lists with them >> about the things that we Yeah. the things

149that we've been talking about and that they should >> be prepared to address on the 11th. >> Yeah. Yeah. That that you know that these are kind of questions we're going to ask and to get into more detail, we can also send this sustainability checklist >> which I did find on the website. >> Oh, you did? Okay. >> I don't I it was I was hidden I think I have to reshare it because I don't think you can find it easily. >> Yeah, I think it it does get a bit buried but and like I said, we probably have to update it. And then the last one is just having that well it actually makes more sense now that the site plan shall be consistent with the objectives of the comprehensive plan. >> Now we

150have one >> now we that we well almost have one right. Uh >> so so close right. [laughter] Um uh >> could this derail >> the agenda here by adding the comprehensive plan now? >> No. >> Dail what? >> Oh no. I mean, I think >> when applying the comprehensive plan to this project, >> given that it's not approved, >> would the comprehensive plan say that you wouldn't want this kind of project under any circumstances? >> I don't think so. >> Do we have a point that we would connect pull out of the comprehensive plan and really connect this? >> I think you can't because it's not been approved before this was submitted. So, it only this it would only apply if it was already approved before this application was submitted. >> So, you do

151you know what I mean? It's like the same way if a bylaw wasn't in effect, we couldn't approve a bylaw after they applied and then hold them to that bylaw. >> Their grandfather did. >> Well, in any case, I bet there's multiple points that we could pull out of the comprehensive plan. >> But they probably do meet, but I wouldn't use you can't use the new draft. You have to use what's existing and approved. You can't use the new one. >> Oh, hold on. Are we talking about interconnectivity specifically for this project? We were just wondering about this last point number 12 which which mentions the comprehensive plan and Jasmine saying that since the YMCA application was already active and the comprehensive plan is not approved we can't really you know legal I guess is

152you know you know say that it has to meet the comprehensive plan because this came first. So I mean we can't we can't require it as a legal item but they were very open to the applicant was perfectly willing to work with us on certain planning uh excuse me comprehensive plan related items. So there is a cooperation that we should absolutely mention in our decision. We're not nobody's requiring them to do this. They were willing and open for example to have the bus stop. um and interconnectivity in general was in our prior comprehensive plan as well. So I I don't think it would be a reach for us to refer to the comprehensive plan as as long as these are points of collaboration with the applicant and we frame it that way. I think it

153could be, you know, a statement about though the the applicant is not required to to meet elements of the new comprehensive plan, they do, you know, that I mean I I can't, you know, >> yeah, >> I can't, like I said, I can't imagine that there's anything in the comprehensive plan that says no, we don't want a YMCA, right? or implies said, >> "But if the comprehensive plan doesn't pass at town meeting and you reference this in a decision, >> well, we're going to know that very quickly." >> Yeah. >> And the decision will be much will be way after >> next Wednesday. >> Yeah. So, >> and to Anna's point, if it already interconnectivity already existed in the previous one, >> you would just have to >> you just reference the previous >> and

154there's nothing too different >> in terms of features that you'd have seen in the new comprehensive plan versus >> Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure >> I also don't think this is a controversial point with applicant. They they clearly want to create a community project, >> right, >> that reflects the diversity and needs of Ashlin. They seem to be working really hard and the beautiful thing is it happens to coincide and be consistent with the comprehensive plan. So I think it's a win-win for everyone. I don't see them objecting to kind of a general statement. >> No, I don't either. >> That that we're honoring their efforts in creating a community project that we're super excited is consistent with the comprehensive plan. >> Yeah, we just have to make sure it passes first, I guess. And

155and to your point, Jasmine, I think if we had add if we add a condition that would add strain to them to the project, that's when >> you would worry about legalities. It's we are not there yet, >> right? So we'll, you know, obviously like Trisha said, we'll know if it's approved, if the comprehensive plan is approved next Wednesday, we go forward with that. And if not, we just have to reference the previous one, not the one that didn't pass. But definitely I think worth sharing with them so that they don't get surprised when they come December 11th and we ask questions on signage for example. >> Yeah. Or in the trash enclosure >> they're going to be our RTUs and because we've never gone to that level of details. >> Yeah. So it can

156be this list of small things that now we want to address after going through our list. Um which I think they were aware of because they were here when we when we talked that we would be going through this list and >> Yes. >> So um so yeah. So they that'll be a great little list for them to kind of gather those things >> and I would not emphasize RTUs in your message to them because they would get down to the level that they haven't gone to that engineering level. So it is absolutely site plan related noise in the site. So >> right >> keep it very general and don't get into the details of >> right >> highlighting the subtopics that we just >> that makes sense. All right. So, so and there is

157a site alteration special permit as well, but I'm not sure what the criteria are for that one if they even >> um or that we need to I think we talked so much already about the site that I don't think we need to deal with that right now. It's probably repetitive information. >> It is very >> um and it is 9:49 and we try to get out of here by 10. So, um, so but we do need to continue this to somewhere. Um, do you know where was was this something we were going to send to December 11th? >> December 11th was what we had told them last time, >> but I didn't want to cut anyone off. Does anyone have anything else they want to add to kind of just the general discussion of

158the why right now? So, okay. But I thought that that was actually good. I'm glad we did that to kind of start getting some of those issues on the table. All right. So then we are looking to continue this to December 11th um which is yay almost almost a month away. So we give a break. Question I have pending the final decision does that mean that they start going to site work or does that still further down the road? That's considering what they've expressed with their funding that once we approve this decision is when they can apply for the remainder of their funding. So, they haven't even been granted all of their funding yet. So, we're probably looking like two years before a year to two years minimum before they start breaking ground. >> Okay.

159>> Assuming it's an approved, you know, no appeals. >> I thought they were hoping for a little earlier. I mean earlier rather than later breaking ground but because I think they need to be at like 70% funding before they can before they feel comfortable you know starting. >> So hopefully hopefully I I don't I don't I don't think they're looking at two years. I think they're looking >> I'm hoping it [clears throat] will be within the year but I can't with the funding I >> Yeah. No one knows could be Yeah. Um, so, okay. So, um, I will make a motion that we, uh, continue 30 Memorial Drive, YMCA, special permit, and site plan review to our meeting in December, December 11th. Is there a second? >> I'll second that. >> All right. And a

160roll call vote. >> Deep. Anna, >> Anna Tesman, I >> and Trisha Kendall I. So, that is continued. And I think then >> I think that was everything. >> We've taken care of everything except that we need to sign a few things here in the room. >> Oh, >> you were about to say something. >> Oh, >> yeah. And it's only >> Jasmine, is is there anything in the room I need to sign? I don't think there is. >> No, Anna, there's not. >> Okay. >> Nope. you are off the hook, I think. So, in that case, um I will adjourn the meeting at 9:52. Is there a second? We have to officially close our meeting and a roll call vote. >> Anna, [laughter] >> I keep cutting you. I'm giving you >> a point.

161And should I see that's why we sit in a nice row and we can look at each other when we do our >> That's why we >> Angel apologize for not being there to officially greet you on your first meeting, >> but welcome. You did a great job. >> Thank you, Anna, for sharing tonight. That was helpful. >> All right, >> no worries. >> Great. [laughter] >> We only hazed some of you. >> Yeah, we only Yeah. Were you guys hazing her?