Planning Board & Joint Meeting with Select Board (November 6th, 2025)

001Are you sure? Yes. Welcome everyone to Ashlin Planning Board meeting of Thursday, November 6, 2025. Just a reminder to everyone that the meeting is being broadcast and recorded. Um, I am calling the meeting to order at 7:18. Um, we have uh one public hearing and three other um public meetings issues that we'll be dealing with tonight. We're going to hold all that off just a little bit until 7:30 where we um we're having a joint a short joint meeting with the select board at 7:30 um to discuss and uh vote on a new candidate for our associate position. So um that needs to wait until we have the select board on board which would be at 7:30. So, in the meantime, next on our item, um, next on the list, um, is the chair clerk's

002report. I did want to use that to talk a little bit about, um, process. I'm going to skip that for a minute and just see if there's any public comment in the room or online. Public comment is a time that it can be on every any topic, but if you are here, whether online or in the room to talk about the it an item that is actually on our official agenda, you probably want to wait until we're talking about that item on the agenda. But for general issues, if anyone has a public comment, you can raise your hand and we will take those now. see Joe. Okay. All right. Seeing none, we will move on. Um, and so what I wanted to just talk about a little bit for the next uh 10 minutes until

003we get to 7:30 is process. And this is a little bit for the board. We're trying to clarify, you know, as we go along the best way for um the best way for the board to get the documentation you need, timing things have been a little um unstructured, I guess, for a while and and and I think this is a good time just to for me and Jasmine to try to understand the best way to get information to the board. We have done it. um that we send out a a kind of a big email on the Friday before um a meeting and that way it gives board members a chance to look at those items over the weekend and then we discuss those on the following Thursday. But what we found, I think we

004found already even with the new members, is that we get some of those items, but other items come trickling in through the week and um you end up getting quite a few emails in your inbox and it becomes a little bit hard to sort through. So, I'm just wanting to get some feedback about how we might do this a little bit more efficient efficiently um so that you guys are can get the documents you need and um aren't uh kind of having to fish through your email for important information. >> What's the timing that Sorry. What's the timing that is required for if somebody's to present something on a planning meeting at Thursday? When do they have to get it in to us? >> Is there an official one or is there no official timing?

005>> There isn't. It's kind of up to us, right? We request all information from applicants the Thursday before so that we can get it out on Friday. Now that said, when um something comes in from the fire department with an email, you know, with more information or the traffic report comes in a few days before our meeting, I would assume that we don't want to just put those aside and not look at them. Sometimes it's just an email. It's all information that should go to the board. Um, but that no matter what we do, things are going to trickle in unless we want to completely ignore those, which I assume we don't. Now, we're dealing with a traffic report tonight that came in late and frankly I had not it's not time to even glance

006at it, right? So, there's no way the board can be unless it's in the Thursday before the board cannot be held responsible for looking at it before the Thursday meeting because it just didn't get here in time for us to consider it. So that said, if you did have time, you would be able to look at it and and and absorb that information before the meeting. So what I'm wondering if it would be easier to have a um and I think this is possible. We'll have to check with open meeting law and things like that. is to have something like a Google Drive where information >> and so that would be something that you would put things in and we would have read only I think right >> we can we can set it up

007so that way it's you know viewer only so you can't edit any of the documents just to make it you know safe that way nothing is being altered but you can certainly have access to view everything >> so that way at whatever point during the week like over the weekend you might check that Google Drive you might check it two days before the meeting to see if there's anything new in there would that be and then you just get there's >> is the concern the number of emails we're getting or the fact that we're not getting it timely for our correct review >> more I think the number of emails and then does that hinder your ability to keep track of everything I'm sending you if I'm sending you >> I mean it does not

008the one thing I'll say is Google Docs will then record every single time everybody logs on that becomes p part of public record. I have no issue with that as long as the members are fully aware >> that at that point you have um there's a public knowledge if you will as to when you're reviewing the materials, how prepared you are, etc. That does become part of the public record. >> Yeah, the not that I mind about the public record because mine will just show that Scott doesn't look at it very often. Um, but to me, like I'm I'm not great at going to find things. I'm not I just don't have the I don't know capacity or time to remember. I mean, maybe if I set an alarm to like go look. >> Yeah.

009Um, but to me, I'd rather it come to us, but I also I I totally understand how people don't want to get a million emails over something, but like if there was something like maybe something, hey, check out, you know, it's Tuesday. We've added four new topics to the drive. Check it out or something >> or like even like a maybe a line of like what the four things were. So, >> absolutely. >> Can we be notified when there's an upload onto the drive? So you don't have to off but we just get the flag that >> does that happen automatically with like something has been added flag these people. >> It does not when I add it. Um I would have to share it with you for you to be notified but >> I

010I don't use Google Drives much. >> I can look to see if there's a way to do that but I don't not that I know of. >> Dropbox has but I don't think Google Drive has. It's not going to give you a notification. >> No. >> Or or is it or is it not an issue? You know, I've >> I I've never seen it as an issue. Um personally, but I'm concerned that we're not getting materials on time, which is a completely different more substantive conversation that we need to have. Um but, you know, personally, I don't really mind if we have a gold bill doc or not. >> Okay. >> Um I don't see why it's suddenly necessary. We're all capable of opening up email. I read hundreds of emails a day through my

011job. I think I can handle 10. Okay. >> From the planning board. >> Yeah. It's not the number of emails. It's just that the agenda, for example, changes, has been changing for the last few months. And I personally do look at that Friday email, but then I know that that probably is not the one which I'm going to prepare for for Thursday. >> And I definitely am not a person who has time before the meeting five o'clock to look at materials. I definitely need it ahead of time. um Tuesday night the latest is great. That gives you two nights at least to look at but materials coming in on Thursdays, Thursday mornings is just not helpful at all. >> Um it just makes us be inefficient in these three hours we sitting here. So I'm

012not sure >> if that means we don't take that topic because it can't be that every time there's a problem that it comes an end hour. last few meetings every me every document has come in literally a day before agenda has changed multiple times I have lost I don't look at things emails coming from planning board on Monday nights because it's like I'm sure something is going to change on Tuesday >> yeah that's and that's what I guess what I'm trying to straighten out if that you know um a draft agenda say goes out on uh Friday like when when we send the materials and then we don't send you an updated one until after the deadline on Tuesday. After the deadline on Tuesday, we can't change it. So that has to be the agenda.

013>> So um so maybe and that would just have it be one change at most, right? It's either the original or it's it's the one with on Tuesday. Scott, did you have something? >> Yeah, I just wouldn't want to like push something off completely for three weeks or whatever if you know, depending on like when we meet, you know, at the end of the month, sometimes there's an extra week in there just because >> it didn't come in, you know, because it could be important and then it's pushing a lot of stuff. Like I don't know how important the traffic report is. Like I don't think it's going to like break tonight, but like if that was something that was going to, you know, really affect stuff, I wouldn't want us to just ignore it.

014But I mean, maybe there has to be some like, hey, we need some review time or something. >> Yeah. for, like I said, for things that come in that don't come in on time, the board can say, "We didn't have a chance to review it. We're going to review this. We'll talk about this again in two weeks. You just didn't give us enough time to do it." On the other hand, I hate to not give the board the things that come in. Um, and obviously we have no control over when things come in, you know. Um, so we don't like to keep those from you guys, but we're under no obligation to discuss them if they come in at the last minute. >> But that also means the applicant also hasn't had time to review

015it, right? If it comes, like for example, a traffic report if they have not done their >> Yeah. >> homework coming here. >> That's right. So, >> so to be clear, this potential vision of a Google Drive, is this internal to the planning board only or is this something where um applicants will utilize? And the reason I say that is I would not be comfortable if it's open to applicants because I personally would want to see the full email traffic back and forth. So I don't want it to just be dumped whatever the document is. I actually want to see when it was created, when it was forwarded to the planning board, when it came to the development office and then to us. I want to see the whole string. >> We will >> I

016don't really want to see isolated documents just pop up. We will check that out and look and also uh look at it in relationship to open meeting law and things like that. But I did want to just get some feedback from the board and we'll use that and and talk about it next time. >> I mean, me personally have zero concern with reading 10 emails last minute if we need to because sometimes there's things completely outside of our control and totally outside of the control of the applicant. So to me, it's all about kind of who's in charge here. Um, if it's us, if we made a mistake and something comes to us late, we just need to be flexible. If the applicant had zero control, we need to be flexible. If one of us

017had control and we just dropped the ball, then we discuss it. Like, to me, I'm not really seeing a problem personally. >> Well, that's good to that's good to hear. Maybe it's just my own wondering if everyone is getting the the information efficiently. So, so thank you for that. We are now at 7:30 and I do see our select board uh on board. So I will turn it over to Joe who needs to open the select board meeting. >> Uh good evening. Thank you madam chair for uh allowing me and uh other board members to be here this evening. Uh so officially at 7:30 I open the uh select board joint meeting with the planning board. >> Thanks Joe. So, for those of you out there, this uh what I assume will be a short

018joint meeting with the planning board and the select board that is online and that is for us to review and vote on um a new associate member candidate. The planning board has five seats and we have one associate member seat. that associate member has an important job of stepping in uh as a voting member of the planning board when one of the five of us needs to recuse oursel for a particular project. Um that it doesn't happen too often. It has to be for a special permit according to Ashlin bylaws, but it is happening at our next meeting on the 13th. And so we have really been looking um for actually several months um for an associate member for um for the planning board and I am really very happy to say that we do

019have a candidate um Angel Kazadian. Okay, I wanted to make sure I got that pronunciation correctly. and um and so the select board in order for her to be appointed um we need a a joint vote by both the uh planning board and the select board. So that's why the select board is joining us here tonight. Now the the typical position um for the associate member is a three-year position, but it's not um it it's on a a regular schedule. So the position that's open right now is just completing the last part of the three-year term. So that three-year term will be ending in June, at which time the associate member can decide that they would like to continue and and be reappointed for three years or their term is is has just ended. So

020um so Angel, if you don't mind, um if you don't mind, uh coming up to the microphone if is it on? Okay. And just um introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about your experience. I do thank you for being here in person. Hi, I'm Angel. Um, I am an architect. I have been doing this for 30 years almost. I do mostly public works, so primarily K through 12 um, schools throughout Massachusetts and Connecticut. Um, I've sat on this side of the table many, many, many, many times, many, many, many meetings. Never on that side. Um, but I'm happy to help out and use what I know. And uh how long have you lived in Ashland? >> Um oh 23 24 years. 23 years. 23 years. I moved in O2. Math is hard sometimes.

021Um is there any questions? All all the select board and the planning board I I believe got your resume information and your talent bank form, but I did want to open it up if anyone has any questions for Angel. >> Sure. I'll I'll jump in. so thrilled that you're interested. It's awesome. Um, looking at some of your background, you know, there's quite a bit of planning experience obviously, um, especially in your role at is it the disco design partnership, it looks like you worked with quite a few towns and attended town meetings and things like that. Can you just share some of that experience with us for context of >> what kind of projects you were involved in relative to town projects? Um, and in general kind of how you worked with the public. >>

022Okay. So, um, just for background, I worked at Daniscoco for about 20 years and then I've moved in the last six years to another firm, competitor firm, still the same work. Um, I worked in a lot of the same towns with both firms. Um, so for instance, I worked in with the town of Lexington for years. Um, I did several schools there, a couple middle schools, um, couple elementary schools, plans. Um, I had to interact with all of the boards. So they have you know planning board um somewhat less I work with only because generally when it's a public school it's already you know there's no special permit required generally um but I have to work with the selectmen I have to work with presentations for towns so I do a lot of town meetings

023um meeting with um just stakeholders because of course everything I do ultimately has to get a public vote um for for either override side or just for funding. Um, so a lot of a lot of town meetings where I present what we're doing and keep people in the loop. Um, also working with a lot of the uh public safety handinhand in public safety for what we're doing. Um and then DPW also in most towns we work with um occasionally we have to work with con well actually I shouldn't say occasionally in schools almost always I have to work with concom um and so I have all of those meetings that I have gone to um putting presentations together describing the work um review you know having drawings for people to review not just necessarily reviewing

024them myself but um all of that sort of scope. Uh I have worked on projects um you know small renovations like replacing windows to um very large um you know fivetory vocational high schools. >> Thank you. Uh any other questions from from the select board as well? >> I don't have any. Uh Trish, I just I just want to thank Angel for for stepping up and uh coming forward to uh be part of the process and working with the town and the planning board. Uh quite the uh extensive uh resume. Uh it's too bad you weren't on the planning board uh when we were doing the uh mind school building. >> I interviewed for it. >> You did. Okay, then I'll leave it at that. You tried. Okay. Um, I I'll open it up to

025uh Brandy and or Claudia if you have any questions or comments. >> I was just going to say I've I've known Angel for many many years. Um, and I just I just wanted to say thank you to her for for stepping up and for doing this. And uh I think she'll be a great addition to the planning board. >> Thank you, Brandy. Great, >> Claudia. >> No, I'm all set. Thank you. >> Okay. Well, good, Madam Chair. >> All right. I see Yolanda on there, too, so I'll give her a a chance as well. >> I'm sorry. I didn't see your name. Sorry. >> No, I'm good. No questions. >> All right, then. If there are no further questions from my board, um I will entertain a motion. Appoint >> motion to appoint. >> Yes.

026>> I'm sorry. >> Angela >> to the um position of >> Associate member. See. >> All right. Is there a second? >> I'll second that. >> All right. So, I will take a roll call vote of the planning board and then I will allow uh Joe to take it of the select board. >> Deep eye. >> Anna Tesmanitzki. I >> Scott Pitier. I Montino I >> and Trisha Kendall I >> Joe. >> Thank you Madam Chair. Um I'll read the motion as well on on our behalf. Uh I nominate Angel Kazedian uh for the position of the new associate member to the planning board with the term to expire June 30th, 2026. Is there a second? >> Joe, it was seconded before. We're just take the vote now. So I just I thought we had

027to do it separately. >> No, same vote. Grieves. >> Okay. Bennett I >> kinsman I >> minani I that's 40 >> great thank you >> so >> thank you >> so Angel you are our new official u associate member you will need to get sworn in um before next Thursday's meeting where >> um oh uh town clerk's office here in the town hall okay just downstairs >> okay um I >> I move that we close the select board meeting >> second >> thank you all those in favor I >> I >> voice. Uh, okay. Name name roll call, please. >> Thank you. >> Bennett. >> I >> Re. >> Manyani. I That's 40. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Thank you, s >> um I know some of them are like coming are calling

028in from their cars, so uh yeah, they're in difficult positions, but um >> but Angel, really thank you for stepping up and for this very, very quick process this week to get you on board. I'm really excited that you're here and I look forward to uh using your expertise on the planning board. >> All right. Well, thank you. I'll see you all. >> Congratulations and welcome. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next on our agenda um is uh the one public hearing we have for this evening and that is 30 Memorial Drive, the YMCA. So >> um Okay. So, um medical um >> okay um I think we're turning it over to you and the presentation. >> Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the board. For the record, Matt Eckle, I'm attorney with Fletcher Tilton

029on behalf of the Y. I'm actually going to pass the baton early on over to Carrie. She's going to take the lead tonight. >> Thank you. Uh do I have uh the opportunity to share screen? Um, give me just a moment because I just given it to Matt, so now I've got to give it to you. Sorry. >> Okay, >> all set, Carrie. Thank you. >> Okay, thanks. Uh, Carrie Dio, School of Consulting. Um, I'm actually gonna just pull it over here. Um, you know, our goal tonight is to uh respond hopefully and and uh resolve some of the topics that have come up in in our previous meetings with this board. um as well as some of the other comments that we've received, you know, from other uh departments. Uh like was kind of

030chatted about earlier, we did get the traffic report um for the project. We will touch on that, but we will need um as expected a little bit of extra time for our formal response. Um let me see if I can get this to progress. There we go. Uh most of the members of our team are on. In fact, all of the members of our team are on tonight in case there are specific questions and I will pass the baton um for those to speak. But um I'm happy for our team I can continue to um progress the the presentation. Uh when we met with the planning department department on uh October 9th or the planning board, we heard uh these topics as items that needed specific uh confirmation. So, a number of, uh, conversations around

031community connection, specifically how the site connects at Dunkin Donuts. Um, we have, and I'm going to just give you a highlight of what we've done, and then we'll get into the plans. So, we did add that sidewalk back at the Dunkin Donuts side, uh, for that connectivity. There was some clarity around how folks would access the site. Um, both the the site itself and then also the backyard of the site from the Trolley Brook Trail. And then within our site, how would folks uh traverse from the street uh into the site both from both ends, but also from the front to the back of the site? You know, how do you get from the parking lot to the backyard and and back and forth, both um able-bodied and um accessible routes. So, we we've brought

032some graphics that are able to identify that a little bit more clearly. We talked last time about the need to do a little bit of a deeper dive on the landscape, talk about which areas uh where we will be removing trees. Uh as many of you know, this is a wooded site right now. So, we'll talk about um what it looks like now and what we are hoping, you know, some representative images of what we're hoping it looks like after after we do our improvements. Uh we have a closeup of that landscape buffer that uh is the request for a waiver. that's in that uh corner where the property line is a little bit funky. And then there was just a quick clarification around what will the retaining walls look like, you know, from the

033parking lot and and from the trail and and things like that. We're going to spend a few minutes talking about materiality of the building. Um confirming the massing and the materials that will be used on the buildings, uh what the buildings will look like from a massing perspective from the street. Um, we do have a little bit more, uh, you know, imagery that will show the the what we'll call the finish board. Um, we want to show you up close what the, uh, early learning center will look like. We're realizing that that, um, has always been on the far away renderings, but not up as up close as we have uh, with the membership building. And then we'll just show you where we are with the feedback we've received uh, from the traffic peer review.

034And again, that will be followed up with a formal response. So, I'm just going to jump in. Um, I'm going to turn it over. Uh, again, uh, Brendan Kerry from Bowler is on. Um, Brendan, I'm happy to run the slideshow if you want to, uh, just let me know when to progress. >> Sorry, everyone. Uh, on mute. Um, yeah, that works. Thank you, Curry. Um so first slide just kind of uh gets us uh excited um with the context of town. So um you know the project site is right between you know the Ashley Middle School uh route 135 and Dunkin Donuts and along Memorial Drive and you know right next to the the new uh dog park that's being put in and the Trolley Brook Trail. Um and um I think you can go

035next. I think everyone knows where it is. Um, so this is our current site plan and um, the black outline is our property line and um, you can kind of see we're kind of nestling it into the the uh, existing and surrounding wooded area. Um just quick uh this is our um site plan and our landscape requirements kind of what we're held to with zoning and you know really the requirement for uh landscape being put in is you know one tree for every 30 linear feet of frontage along Memorial Drive. So you know technically we would be required to put in 29 trees and we are um right now putting in 46 trees along the buffer. So clearly meeting that standard and you know throughout the site we have a plan you know over 200

036trees um deciduous and evergreen and um you know we're really trying to do a nice job with putting a landscape back that we can will grow in and replace the the woods that we are losing. Um this is a picture. Um so we're the black arrows are um kind of what this existing conditions view is. Um it's kind of helpful because they have that sign out there. So it's the exact view kind of really pinpoint where we where we are in the woods. Um so we are standing at the 243T elevation and looking down um into the triangle area that is kind of lower at 215. So, uh, about 30 ft below grade or where we're standing. Um, and really it's a substantial buffer. Um, there's you really can't see anything. It's it's a heavy

037wooded area and um, with the wetland, no one really can develop this. So, um, we're asking for the buffer because we clearly have a substantial landscape buffer. Um then just you know some existing condition pictures of you know the condition of the the wooded area. Um not very usable. There's you know falling logs and trees and you know just uh pretty standard uh wooded area pines and and maples and oaks. Um and then you know this is kind of our intention as we kind of develop the site. Um, you know, we're kind of leveling it off in two different terraces and using the building to kind of help us uh make up that grade change. And then, you know, open lawns, pastoral walks, and and open space that's usable for the the town. Um, you

038know, trees that will grow up and actually grow into a uh it, you know, correct form and and um just create a special place. Um then kind of we're getting into the accessibility kind of connections to Memorial Drive and Trolley Book and um 135 and uh the middle school. Um let me see. I'll start with on the left side uh to connect to the middle school. We have the existing crosswalk that kind of ties us um to the south side of Memorial Drive and the the wide asphalt sidewalk and then to the trolley trail. Um, so this diagram shows, you know, what would happen if we create an accessible connection that kind of goes the most direct route to the the fields from from Memorial Drive. So, we need a um a zigzag walkway to

039maintain a slope under 5%. Um, and with that um we lose a substantial amount of um trees along the buffer. Thanks, Harry. Um and then off, you know, we open up views to the parking lot and um the generator and and trash enclosure with this connection. >> Just Brendon, if I can just add, so this photo here, in order to get that accessible path to get in there, you know, this area of trees would be removed. And just as a reminder, the generator and trash area is right here. Um so we did study this and I think Brendan's going to show us another option. Um, you ready for me to go to the next? >> Yeah, let me go to the next. So, um, with this option, it's, um, we have, we still have a

040connection. It's instead of 5%, it's 7%. So, it's not accessible, but we still have a sidewalk connection to get us to the, um, the ELC and to the the back fields. But the true accessible connection would be a sidewalk along Memorial Drive that kind of runs to the east and then connects to the center of the site. and um the front doors of the um the membership building. Um so it's we still have an accessible connection. It's just a slightly further walk and we have uh we're protecting more of the the wooded buffer um along Memorial Memorial Drive. >> And just for clarity, the the blue are uh you know ADA accessible paths. the magenta are um nonaccessible but again not necessarily far out of compliance when you relate to this this one here. >>

041So but just a one question. So the accessible path uh going through the building. So, so you don't you don't ever to get through the back. You don't Do you need to You don't need >> No, you can go around this way if if you need accessibility or you can go between the buildings and there's a set of stairs right here. >> Uhhuh. >> Uh I think there's a blow up that might show too. >> Uh >> that's fine. Thank you. >> Yeah. But yeah, you don't have to go inside to go out back if that that's >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah. And so this kind of just shows just highlights the the two conditions where you it'd be nice to keep the to keep the the wooded buffer and kind of um hide

042some of the parking and the utilities um and not have this engineered path that um kind of snakes up this hill. Um oh this is the retaining wall. So on the the plan we kind of highlight where we have retaining walls. Um and you know the corner of the ELC and the opposite corner of the membership building. Um from your experience of you know entering the parking lot and and the buildings you wouldn't see these walls really there um the retaining wall would be kind of um hidden by the the existing woods and um you know we would need a guardrail fence. So it we were thinking um a black chain link 4 foot tall fence along the um the top of the wall would um blend into the surrounding uh woods. So the um

043the picture below is from the Ashlin High School um fields. I think the the baseball fields um where um is the exact same condition really as the retaining wall where you don't really see it. It you know holds up great and then we have um a 4ft tall chain like fence for protection. The other thing we did look at is we did an overlay of where the Trolley Brook uh trail goes and it kind of goes straight out and then curves around when you get back here and you're, you know, 140 150 ft away through thick um through thick forest there. So, you probably won't wouldn't even see it and certainly wouldn't have access to it. Um do you want us to go through the whole thing and then come back for questions? Is that

044the best? Yeah, I think so. To go through You mean go through the the points that you're >> Yeah, the whole Yeah, the whole presentation. Yeah. >> And then I think everyone can ask the >> Perfect. Okay, great. So, then um we're going to flip over to H say Kim from uh CBT who's going to cover the next bunch of slides for us. >> Thanks, Carrie. Um it's a pleasure to be here to be able to continue this dialogue with you guys. Uh last time my colleague Lonnie um took you guys through the narrative of the scheme um and a lot of the thoughts and the effort that went behind really trying to make this building a special uh for Ashland. Um in terms of the height, I think there were a lot of questions.

045Um for the membership building, we are just shy of 35 ft um from the zero level um which is sort of a little bit more of an uphill um from where Memorial Drive is. And then uh adjacent to it we have our ELC uh which is uh shown to 18'6 uh to top of parapit. Um so that is sort of um we're really trying to cascade down and limit the height of the building to the extent possible without sacrificing the functions of the the the program inside. Next slide. Um as noted uh in our last presentation um we are really trying to think about um a balance of a lot of these considerations. One that is more of the environment. So thinking about embodied carbon and what kind of you know whether there are any

046redless materials uh inside but also thinking about the durability as well as affordability. So when we really begin to think about the balance of a lot of these things, um we sort of came down to sort of this CMU as one type of a material pallet and then a metal panel as a as another one that can really um hit the ball in the head. Um hit the nail in the head and then I think there were a lot of questions around what material this what it really looks like other than the rendering. So these are material samples that we're looking at as for CMU. Um there are obviously hundreds and hundreds of different kind of a palette and pigments and aggregate. Um and the ones that we are considering are sort of in this

047lighter gray beigeish um sort of a tonish and you can see at the top left. Um those are the ones that we are considering um sort of that tonality and the color. And as for the metal panel, we're really trying to um c capture this sort of a sheen um and not so reflective to a point where it will look like a polished um stainless steel or polished finish, but more of this sheen just so that it can capture some of the color um um that is ever changing throughout the day and throughout the season. Next slide. So, some of these renderings you've seen um and this is sort of that view when you turn from Memorial Drive and when you come up and the first corner that you arrive as you come up the

048hill and then sort of this um arrival um is this is sort of that view from the south. And then the next slide and the view from the north um is that because you we are putting the ground floor at the midle of a three-story building and the from the northern side um we we see the building getting a little bit um taller uh just because we're sort of going down one floor. But this essentially take uh takes advantage of sort of that northern view, northern light um allowing the building also to be able to capture the daylight that it needs for a lot of these larger function programs to function. Next slide. And that's sort of the entry view um from the parking lot. Um so this is not exactly where everybody will be

049coming to, but a lot of people will be sort of um arrive experiencing this kind of elevation view from the south southern side. um entering the lobby. Next slide. And then as for the ELC, we are essentially taking a lot of the material pallet of the membership building, which is sort of this combination of the CMU and metal. But if the membership uh sort of puts a little bit more emphasis on sort of the tectonics of these metal um shingles that sort of come together um to create this really nice um facade, a north and the south facade. ELC is more of um it is really more grounded. Um we are really using the CMU as the primary material pallet. the same um pallet as we are showing in the membership but instead of the

050metal being dominant uh the the CMU is becoming the more of a dominant panel uh material with accent of sort of that um beautiful um metal panel um capturing uh some of the colors um of the surrounding. Next slide. Um this is these are a couple of the views uh from the parking lot looking north. So this is really where the entrance is. Um and the next view um is just an elevation a flat elevation view um of what that looks like. Uh and then the next view is the east facade. So this is sort of that pathway between the membership and ELC. So this is where a lot of people um how people will get from the the parking space um to sort of that open space to the north. So you can kind

051of begin to see the glimpse of the playground um of the ELC um and some of the fencing um for uh that playground area and the relationship between the program that happens inside and the views to the playground and the nature beyond. And then this is the north facade um elevation. Um very just simple, clean and elegant um and staying true to the material uh characteristics. Next slide. And then lastly uh this is the looking east from the parking lot on the west. Um and we have a gently sloping down parking lot that sort of leads to accessible trail uh trail um down to the north side of the membership. And this is sort of the view um where you'll see a lot of people park here and then get their kids out from the

052car seat and then basically bring it to the front. >> Great. Thank you. Say um as we mentioned we did receive the transportation or the traffic uh review. We had received some comments on traffic previously. So there were some that you know we've already addressed as part of the GCG review. Um th that part should be closed. Um we are still awaiting uh final responses back from GCG on all of the peerreview comments. I'm not sure if there's a status on that. Um but we can we can talk through how we closed those items. Um and then we were able to uh get our hands on the Vanesse traffic review. Uh that was um that was on Tuesday. um Tuesday evening. I believe we got that. Uh in general, they had um and these notes

053are from MDM. Uh I know Dan is on, but I I promised um that I would I would cover these for them. But in general, you know, Vanessa is in agreement with their methodology. They did request some uh clarifications on um some of the data sets that were used and that whether or not others should be used, background project uh background projects, sighteline clarifications, um understanding pickup and drop off management. Um, again, you know, this is a daycare, so it doesn't work like a like an elementary school or or or high school where everyone comes and goes at similar times, but we can certainly talk about what that what that uh pick up and drop off looks like. Um, and then uh there was some additional data that they had requested. Uh, so our next

054steps on that uh is we're going to prepare a formal response to the Vaness comments. uh MDM is going to meet specifically with Vanessa and make sure that they understand their comments so that they are uh responding correctly. And then uh hopefully between that conversation and the memo we have we can uh do a full um a full response to close out the transportation comments. I believe that is our full oh and then full next steps for our project as as we see it again are these two things. We we also still have conservation open. Um we're hoping to get the responses uh to our responses back from GCG so that we can um close the storm water comments. Um but we don't have those uh received as of yet. Um I think that those

055are expected this week, but we haven't seen them yet. >> Great. Thank you. >> And that that's everything we have. I will keep sharing just assuming that there's probably Yeah, I think if you can put up the just the overall site plan as a as kind of a starting point. >> Yep. >> Okay, great. So, um uh just a note of thanks for for all of this um kind of clarification on the issues that we brought up. I think there's a lot to a lot to talk about, a lot that has been made clear. Uh we also just want to say a hello to Brendan Kerry. For those on the board who don't know, Brendan Kerry is an Ashland resident and actually was on our design review committee until I don't know I don't know

056how long it's been. Um, but thus knows Ashland uh knows Ashland well. So, >> welcome. Welcome on the other side of the uh other side of the board there. So, um okay. Does anyone want to start with questions or comments? Um >> yeah. Um thank you. This is awesome. Adds a ton of clarity to some of the questions I had um coming into it. >> I have a few other questions. Uh thanks for putting the sidewalk back in going towards Dunkin Donuts. I I still can't visually understand how like what's the gap between where the sidewalk will end and the I mean I know it's the Dunkin Donuts property. >> So our property line if you can see my cursor is kind of right here. >> Okay. >> So we can get them pretty close.

057>> Okay. >> But then there's like this last piece of wooded area and then the little path between um between uh there and and the drive. >> Got it. Okay. Would you have a estimate on the number of feet you think to that driveway? >> Uh, we did do an estimate on the number of feet, didn't we, Brendan? I feel like it was I want to say it was 150 ft or something. I don't know. It was >> closer to 45T. >> Okay. I was like it was Yeah, we did measure it just exactly to because we kind of figured it would come up. >> So, was it I'm sorry. What was the second number? >> 145 ft. >> or just 45 feet. >> 45. >> Okay. 45 feet. So, say 50 feet. >> I

058won't hold you to it. I was just wondering if it was a rough thing. Okay. Thank you. >> Um, you mind if I just keep asking? Okay. Um the driveways going in and out on the left and right hand side, are they both going to be both directions or there is there any conversation with those being one ways, especially now that they asked that question about the ELC drop off? Um I just wondering about traffic coming in on the left side as people might be trying to exit there. Yeah, I think that the roads are sized appropriately for 2A and I think what we expect is that most ELC traffic is going to come and go through this and then most membership will come and go through this side is is kind of we had

059those same conversations and we I think we all landed on if you're going to the ELC, you want to be able to get in and out without um without having to drive through the whole parking lot. And so we we just size those drives accordingly. But there's not going to be any like signage that says only for ELC or anything like that, right? You can go in either one. It's just But that's the theory is perfect. Thank you. >> I think just learn learn behavior. Yeah, exactly. >> Um, sorry. On this path here on the left hand side, the red line, um, that will be the nonaccessible path. Yep. Thank you. Is that just that's going to be like a sidewalk on the road right next to the driveway coming in? >> Yeah. So, you

060would cross over um you come out of Trolley Brook, there'll be a crossing here, and you could either continue um all the way down Memorial or you could come up um the sidewalk over here and get right in into the site. >> Right. And that just won't be um it won't hit the the degree level to be >> correct >> called assessible. Got it. >> But it's not super steep either. It's like 7% instead of five. Um, so you could certainly use it um if you needed an accessible path if you so desired. It wouldn't be too too out of compliance, but we cannot count it as our accessible way. >> Thank you. Um, oh, and I had one more. Um, you went, if you can go to the screen that had the uh the

061height of the building at the 38T. Mhm. >> It's 30 sorry 34 point whatever uh above the zero point. >> How high is the zero point above the road? >> Um >> ish. It's a good question. I don't know if we have anything going the wrong. >> Yeah, it depends on which part of the road. >> I was just thinking directly in front of where you wrote 0.0. zero like if I was at the road at that zero zero mark. >> Yeah, I can tell you that in two minutes. So, keep the questions coming. I'll I'll pull it up and tell you. >> So, is the is the number given there the is that from like the the level of where I would enter the building in the middle? Is that or is that where

062that's taken from? >> Yes, correct. >> Okay. And then it um so which may vary a little bit from the road. You're kind of wondering about the slope from the road to the main door. Yeah. >> Just kind of getting a general idea because I know the the thought is under 50, right? Is like kind of the but also sight lines and stuff like that. So just wondering >> and Carrie, this is Andy Platt also with Bowler. I can um help out with that that question. So the crest of the road is at elevation 255. The first floor elevation where you're walking into the building is 254. So it's essentially level. It's one one foot down really. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And and then the the road itself, this darker color kind of indicates what

063the road does, right? Like it it pulls off >> on either side. >> Yeah. >> Oh, uh sorry, last one. Is the ELC just one floor? >> Yeah. Yep. That's all my questions. >> Thanks, Scott. >> Well, for now, >> I guess I I'll jump in. So, I had kind of four four questions or clarification points on the tree issue. It's helpful to know how many are being added. Um, it sounds like buffer 46 overall 210. Are the 46 buffer ones included in the 210 or is that 46 plus 210? >> No, it's included. >> Okay, so it's 210 being added. Um, the last time, the reason this question came up is looking at the letter of March 7th from Arbor Way Tree Care, there was some ambiguity where they were clear that 423 oak,

064red oak coming down, 21 white pine, and then hundreds of trees under 14 diameter that are not usable for milling. So, the reason the question was asked, at least by me, was I didn't know the total number coming down based on that letter. It was ambiguous. >> It's tough to say, too, because I think they went to the property line and we're still keeping a decent amount um kind of within our limit of disturbance in the property line. Um so, it's not like they they it was like a true survey. I think they were just kind of walking through the woods and kind of saying big tree, big tree, but there's no official count. Yeah. And I can show you what we received from them. Again, that's we were looking at the at the time

065we were looking to see kind of what we were dealing with both on a, you know, quality of wood and and all of that. But I'll show you what the um I can pull up >> just to be clear. Just to be clear, I all I want to do is I want to be very very clear with the public. This is the number of trees coming down. As close as we can say it. this is the number of trees we're planting. The argument or sort of the positioning of quality I'm less concerned about because I'm not an arborist or an expert in the quality of trees. And >> I don't want to get into arguments of like, oh, these are ugly trees, these are nice trees, these are big trees, these are little trees. I'm

066more concerned about kind of data and facts because there was quite a bit of energy around this particular property relative to trees when there was discussion in town about the tree bylaw. And I think as a matter of course, we owe it to the public to just be straight with them. >> What I'm understanding is we've got 400 and 444 mature trees coming down >> and then we've got hundreds of little ones coming down that we have very little understanding of how many hundreds and all I want to know is are we talking 200 or close to a thousand roughly? >> I would say quite honestly I have no idea. Um, we did not survey the trees like like Brendan said, it was a visual survey. Um, and again, they were only looking at trees

067that were um sizable and and mature. Uh, they weren't I don't even think the arborists counted um the smaller trees. >> Exactly. Which is exactly why I had asked for more clarity. >> Yeah, I think that would >> So, I think what we're getting is a very clear sense of what you're adding, which is wonderful. You're telling us you're adding 210 total trees. Presumably those will be fairly capable of reaching maturity, right? >> Yes. >> Um >> but we are still kind of in the same am ambiguous u sense and all I will say is we're confident 444 mature ones are coming down replaced by less than half of that that we're confident about. and I don't know how the rest of the board feels, but I certainly in light of the mystery of how

068many little ones are coming down. I personally would love a few more big ones to get us maybe >> well I don't think we're taking >> a little bit above the 50 range, 50% range. >> I don't think we're taking 444 big trees down. I think we're you can clearly see we're keeping a lot of trees, especially in the back of the site and along the perimeter. So I don't think >> yeah like like Brendan was saying the arborist counted the entire property line and so all of these perimeter trees will remain and so it's really hard to know those 440 trees like how many of like they you know there may be a hundred of them back here that we're not touching, right? And so it's it's hard to know exactly you know without

069surveying every tree which would be a massive undertaking for 12 acres. Um it's really hard to be able to quantify uh exactly what's coming down versus what's staying. >> But isn't the when they're saying we found 423 red oaks with a diameter of 14 or greater that would be considered candidates for milling. I'm assuming that means those are coming down those 400. >> Not necessarily. No. When they did that arburous report it was before we even had the site plan locked in. So it was for the entire 12acre property. >> Gotcha. So in other words it's even more ambiguous. Yeah, I'll show you. I have it here. I just need to pull it over so I can show you. >> I'll take what I said back. We don't know how many mature trees are coming

070down at all. The arborist report, >> you know, that's the most. >> Sure, but it's totally we don't know which ones. So then I take what I said back. All we know is how many are going up. We know there's hundreds going down, but we do not know the match at all is what I'm hearing. >> Correct. So if you look here, this is the arburous report and this is where they, you know, came up with with those numbers. But this is this indicates, you know, was literally he walked the entire site and measured every tree that he could get to. Um, so for example, you know, some of these are like all of these in the back are fairly sizable trees. That's all in the area that we are not clearing, right? So again

071without you know I don't know I know what you're trying to get at but I don't know how to do that without surveying every every tree. But if you look at the area that we are clearing these trees are you know on average much smaller than the ones along this back area where we're >> this is what this this is the exact ambiguity we had last time. I I think what would be helpful and maybe it can be done on the spot right now is literally like a a visual drawing of how much of that arborous document is coming down versus up just so that we have an understanding of rough is it a is it twothirds of this that's going down of the picture that second page that you just showed I I mean

072I'd be hesitant to do that I mean we can do do that but that that second page is clearly not to scale in any way, shape, or form. So, I don't want to say, "Oh, this is what it is." And have it be completely off. You know, again, this was not done by a surveyor. This was done by an arborist. So, >> why don't for next time, why don't we um you know, take the um take the area, divide it by the number of trees surveyed. Now, we have a general trees per square foot or whatever the measurement is. And then we can and you can look at the area of your site and what is being cleared. And then we have that number in an in an approximate and I think appropriate way. >>

073That's what literally all I expected today. >> Yeah. So, it's not going to be super accurate, but it's not going to be it's not going to be >> way off either. >> And I mean, frankly, I personally am a visual person. I don't mind if you take that second page and you draw on it so that we have a visual of what we're dealing with. We can all use our brains and sort of understand are we looking at a third, 2/3, 1/4. >> We can do our math ourselves. I'm just hesitant to do it on the fly here when we have other things to take care of. So, put it on the list for next time >> and that'll give us a general idea of of what those mature trees are. I'm I'm really less

074not concerned about all the small trees because the small trees tend not to become big trees because there's no light to get there to become big trees. Um otherwise, the whole thing would already be filled with big trees. Um, >> can I just ask clarification of what the intent is of the planning board because you know by bylaw we are meeting the regulation of what is what is requested or what is required. So I'm just I want to make sure we're answering the right question. So are you are you looking to have >> we're looking to create a clear public record because the documentation we're given is completely ambiguous as to the number of mature trees coming down and we just >> So you're just looking for the data. >> That's right. It's literally a

075data question. Um, >> and I think it's a fair question because it's a very green site and there should just be no mystery or confusion about what we're doing so that when it happens, >> no one is confused and everyone knew and I frankly don't know anything right now. I thought it was 444 and I'm told could be anything. Um, so I think that would be really helpful, >> but it can't be more than the 444 >> plus hundreds of little ones, >> right? We we understand >> which which some of us are not worried about. But the point is I would like it to be a data point of clarity of this is how many mature ones are coming down and then we've got hundreds. >> I don't I mean they can give us

076a rough but like you don't want it to be like >> oh no I think we established we can't possibly count each one right and I think I specifically said I would be satisfied with this second page having a line drawn through it because I can use my brain and be like okay so that's like 2/3 of the 444 and I can do math >> I think we get that. I think we're going we don't we don't want to go around in circles. >> We don't want to go around in circles with this. So let's let's look at that for next time and then we'll have some hard numbers about the about the mature trees which we have categorized whatever it is on this >> and I really thought this is what we asked for

077last time or or whatever it was. >> Um there are three more points I wanted to make. >> Okay, let's go into those. Um, obviously the connectivity issue. If we are paying for a connection by seeing trash in a generator, I for one want to be really clear. We don't want that. Just to kind of throw that out there with some clarity. Hopefully the rest of the board agrees. Um, the I think last time we talked about speaking of connection, we talked about a potential bus stop or a shelter. Um, if we could come back to that point and then just a quick kind of I'm assuming this is solar ready and all that. Just a quick discussion of whether solar was discussed for this site. The planning board certainly cannot require solar. Um, we're

078just more again more of as a data point so that we understand whether it was discussed whether this site is even plausible for that. Um, just a curiosity. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Yes. the the building >> bus shelter. >> Yeah. So, easy easy answer first. The building is solar ready. It's required by code to be solar ready and we have initiated some conversations. Um I think that we're not ready to sign any agreements with the solar company at this point, but that is definitely not off the table at some point down the road. A lot of that will be impacted by what is available longer term for um incentives, etc. So, um, but yes, the building is designed to be solar ready. We have an idea of where, you know, where we could put

079panels on the roof and, uh, possibly panels in the parking lot if that was the choice. Um, bus shelter. Um, I think there's been some ambiguity for us in terms of who are we talking about for buses? Are we talking about um, an independent, you know, kind of Metro West bus route? And if so, does that want to be at the street or does it want to be at the front door? Or are we talking about students that may be coming off of a school bus for afterchool programs or um seniors who may be coming off of some type of um you know, public transportation uh bus. Um we have not proposed a shelter. We do have a designated pickup drop off area that is sized for busing. Um, but we did not get a

080clear answer when we asked that the last time. What we're trying to solve with the bus. And so what we've done in the meantime is have uh a pickup drop off area right at the front door, whether that's a bus, a delivery, um, or even a parent doing a drop off just so that it's convenient and it's um, accessible to the front door. Um, and I I thought we talked about this at the last time where the way this came up was the comprehensive plan committee as part of the comprehensive plan visualized a route, if you will, through Ashland um that in theory would go from downtown Ashland all the way in a almost like a clockwise um placement from one side of the train tracks through downtown all the way to 126 returning ing

081up to 135 and in theory returning to the MVTA side where the Cirrus apartments are. So to answer your question, there isn't a requirement that you put a shelter. It's more of a conversation if you have a drop off spot that could work. Um >> yeah, and that's in the site. We weren't sure if you know if if it's a public bus um should it be actually at Memorial Drive, you know, >> right? Yep. >> Yeah. Um, I would say, uh, probably not. Um, in light of the fact that, um, you already have, you're envisioning the YMCA being part of the community as far as connectivity. So, I would think any stop would be right at the Y. >> It sounds like you already have a drop off spot and that might be sufficient for

082this board. Um, we've seen other projects that build small shelters, if you will, for weather. I don't think we need to require it. It's just more of a something I'm throwing out there as a possibility. >> Uh for me, I think the idea of a bus coming in of whatever size, especially if it's already um sized to have a school bus pull up if if that's something the Y is trying to accommodate, which I think would be great. If it can accommodate a school bus, it can accommodate anything else that's going to come through our area. And I think it would be great for it to stop at the front door and not have kids or elderly or whoever going through the parking lot, you know, from the street. Um, that seems to me if

083if that's something the Y is already it's it's already part of the plan that buses would be welcome and allowed there for that kind of drop off, I think that would be ideal. >> Yeah, maybe just showing it to us. >> Can we just clarify that the applicant is okay with that? Because what I'm hearing is schools drop off's fine, but can we get confirmation that if it's a public, you know, whether it's a the regional public bus or an Ashlin related reg some sort of public bus that you're okay with that drop off as well. >> Is that something that needs to be clarified by the Y or >> Yeah, I think you know I I don't feel comfortable answering on behalf of the Y. Um but we can certainly get confirmation um if

084that's something I they may do that already um at their other facilities and have no issue with that but I don't want to speak on their behalf. >> Okay. So put that on the list for next time just because I there's a chance that there would be a you know a bus that is just accessible to the public that aren't on the school bus or whatever and would love to make it to the Y. I think that would would definitely be a great you know part of the route. >> What's that? >> Yeah that's the whole idea. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Can we do that here? >> That's fine. the drop off >> if yeah if we can confirm that as part of this project I think that would be fabulous connectivity we are trying

085as part of the comprehensive plan to be more connected community for public transportation this is a wonderful thing happening in Ashland let's make it possible for the bus to be dropped off you there okay so the visual of the generator trash I want to go back to that when we look at the accessible paths because that's what was those two things were connected but Scott looks like you have your hand your finger on the button no Okay. Okay. Then I would like to look at a couple things um and make some progress on the things that are actually part of the waiverss for this project. One of them was height, which we touched on. So, let's go back to that one. The um the thing we're looking at here is that the rail transit district

086um by our bylaws um has in it that the maximum height shall be um three stories above grade, four stories at the rear of the building if there's a slope. Um 30 a maximum height of 30 feet. Um or it can go up to be increased to 50 ft um with a a waiver from the um from the planning board. So can we um so here we have 35 ft at the street. Um which is very close to the 30 and then what is it at the back? It can be it can be kind of say do you have a um a height on the back or or what the average is around 4 to four is around 14 and a half. So it's going to be 50 ft. >> So 49. >> Yeah, it's

087under 50, I think, on the back as well. And then the average, you know, obviously was over the 30 but well below the 50. >> Okay. So let me just get um thoughts from the planning board on this specific issue. Does anyone see the height from the street or from the back at the heights that it's showing an issue that they are allowed to be at 30 feet with a maximum at 50 feet um maximum height may be increased to 50 feet within the rail transit district upon the grant of a special permit in accordance with the state building code. So that's that's um with our approval. So, I mean, as long as there's that tree cover, can we see it with the tree cover from the view? I mean, if that's really what we're

088getting, I'm fine with that. >> If we're not getting that, if that's just a rendering that doesn't mean anything, then I'm going to have a problem with it. But if that's the actual view, I have zero. >> Yeah. I mean, I think the only thing to consider is, you know, day one, those trees will not be fully mature. Um, but they will in you know, and like Brendan said, there are going to be trees that are selected that will mature fairly quickly, >> right? Which brings us back. >> The trees will get to 60 feet tall like this. So >> and and I actually think a little different than that. I don't uh I want trees. I want them to soften the building and to be a part obviously of the natural landscape, but I

089feel no need that we need to design a building that we need to hide with trees, right? We should that the building should be nice to see as well. So um I think there's a a middle ground, you know, between that um between those things. But is there any again any comment? >> I mean to be clear, we see the building. It's there. >> Yeah. >> Um but if we're going to ex if we're going to go above and beyond as far as uh giving exception to height, I think it's a fair question. >> So um is there any other comments in regarded to building height again from the street that they're at 34 and a half? Um they're allowed to go to 30 by right and they're allowed to go up to 50 even

090from the street with an okay from the planning board. They're looking at 49 ft from the back, which we don't obviously we don't I'm sure at certain angles you can see it from the public way, but is there any other are there any other qualms about the 34 1/2 ft and for in the front and 49 ft in the back? >> I don't have an issue with it. >> No issues. >> It's not official vote. I just trying to get an idea of if this is an issue. Do we know what the height of the building across the street is proposed to be? >> I the one on 135. >> Yeah, >> it's a good question. >> I think you said it was actually taller than that. >> I think it's at least three stories.

091So, >> what's that? Yeah. Yeah. And it it and it should be noted that 35 ft is the normal code regulation for a single family house, right? So >> I mean it sounds like none of us have an issue with this. >> Yeah. So >> the housing proposed across the street is proposed at 52 feet. >> Okay. >> Which we haven't yet approved. >> It doesn't. Yeah. >> Um so ultimately it sounds like we don't have an issue with this. >> Okay. So that's height. The next thing I wanted to look at is that that little uh odd little that's the one um so um for the planning board. Okay. For the planning board's information um in the rail transit district, they're marking the 25- foot um and 30 foot um setbacks because that is

092what is required in the rail transit district. also in that district if a property borders a property that is not in the district. So in this case um that corner property is um part of uh commercial highway I believe along um along uh >> yeah along Memorial not Memorial Drive along um >> West Union East Union West Union. >> So that's part of another zoning district. So And then that's uh owned by the by the um the pet place. >> Yeah. >> Skipton, right? Um so their property they are not in the they are not in the rail transit district, but the two properties butt together and when two properties butt together in different zones by by the bylaws were supposed to have a 50 foot buffer area of vegetation. In this case, um, in

093this case, that area you can see is wetlands and then there's a 25 foot buffer and then there's more of a buffer. So, the area really can't be built on because you can't um go you can't come into the wetlands from that property to get to the corner. It can't be disturbed. So in other words, the corner becomes a great big buffer because it's inaccessible from the rest of the property. And that's why the waiver I I think is being it maybe may maybe be logical for this project. So >> Trisha, it's also almost a 30-foot drop. It's a very steep hill from our property down to that wetland in that corner. You can kind of see here the the contour lines are super tight together and they >> they so it is truly really

094not a usable piece of property and the the kennel I don't think can even access it in any way without going through the wetland. >> Right. >> So do we I mean I mean I have no issue with that assuming this the one I mean I'm I'm assuming Concom is going to have to look at this too, right? So you you got a field right there, flat field, runoff, smaller buffer, wetland. To me, that's outside of my scope of expertise. I would want the concom to clear that. I I I don't have a problem with it personally, but I feel like that's a concom jurisdiction, and it does make me nervous that it's a downward slope towards a wetland from a field that's going to have runoff. Um, so I would really like their, you

095know, assuming they're they clear it, I have no issue with it. >> I think, um, is this already before Kong? >> Yes, it is. >> It's been uh in front of Concom a couple times. Like I said, we're just hoping to close the storm water peerreview comments with GCG would be our last step with Concom. >> Got it. Okay. Any other um questions about this little corner? Not about this corner, but just in general like things are not always wetlands, right? And then we we go in and we mark them as wetlands because they created, you know, it turned into wetlands at some point. Is that ever gone the opposite way and then, you know, things dried up and all a sudden it's not wetlands anymore and then that space could be used? I don't

096like I and I don't want to talk about this one because I definitely don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but I just meant in general. Does those ever flip back? >> Occasionally, but it's much less common. Okay. Usually once it's maraded it usually unless there is some type of development that somehow changes the environment usually it does retain the >> I just meant environmentally wise. >> Yeah, >> I definitely think um Kong um I talked to Becca a little about this morning and she Kong obviously will be looking at this and looking at the drainage and everything that's in in their court very carefully. Um, so more I was looking for from our purview about giving a waiver for this type of situation if we're feeling comfortable with that, if Concom is or

097if if that's something we're not feeling good about. >> And just to be clear, this is a this request is for a waiver for the the >> landscape buffer, not the wetland buffer. So that is before concom for the wetland buffer. This is usually you're supposed to have over 200 feet of landscape buffer between properties. Are you okay waving just strictly not at all wetlands but just the landscape, >> right? Which is about a visual buffer, right? It's supposed to be a visual buffer between the two properties. It doesn't have to do with drainage or anything like that. From the planning bird perspective, that 50 feet is supposed to be a visual buffer between these two zoning areas. >> Filters, light, sound, >> right? So, I mean, look, it I want to be as flexible

098as possible. I don't want to keep talking about the freaking trees. However, the ambiguity on the trees is related to this for me. So, if I had clarity as to what we're really bringing down versus what we're building, I would say do whatever you want in this corner because why do we care to have a big enough buffer if we've got so many trees coming on board? But I can't say that today. So I was thinking about this truly from the wetland perspective because by making that buffer smaller I actually think we are threatening the wetland if there is runoff from that landscaping um field. So I for one would say this is related to concom. >> If someone tells me I'm wrong, we can have that conversation. But I would I I'm of the

099opinion that if we if we are being asked to make that buffer smaller, how can it not impact the wetland? >> It certainly does. >> This is one of the same issues. I I kind of refuse to separate them. >> Um and I would like concom to look at that and I literally want to ask them if the planning board allows this exception, what is the impact on the wetland? Is there enough of a buffer there for that? And I know that we're being asked two different things. We're being asked to look at purely zoning buffer. I get that. Except there happens to be a wetland right there. So, it's kind of a gray area where you've got two things happening on top of each other in a very small area. So, if we allow

100that buffer to be smaller, we're technically impacting the wetland that we have no jurisdiction over. So, I personally do not want to have an opinion until Cong says they have zero problem with that being smaller. And I'd like to understand better what the tree situation is because if Concom says no problem, wetland not impacted, then we have clean jurisdiction. >> Got it. Understood. We >> and we can talk about the trees. >> So I I think that's clear and um I think it's it's also good to note that the 100 foot setback is is lo is noted on there as well. Usually by the 100 foot setback you're completely clear of the wetlands, but it is a concom issue. So we're going to let that go to them. It seems like there's a general consensus

101that as far as it being used in the typical sense of the of of planning bylaws for a visual noise buffer, we don't seem to have a problem with that. We will let COMCOM tell us if it is a problem from their point of view. Okay. Is that fair to YMCA team? >> Yep. >> Sound okay? Okay. Um the next thing on the list, let's look at those. Um let's look again at the two um the two things you provided about e about uh accessibility. >> You want the zoomed in or the >> zoomed out? >> I think zoomed in right now. Right to >> Yep. >> kind of these two. Um, so I'm I'm a little confused about um the kind of all or nothing. Like if we put in this curved path, we

102we can't have a visual buffer at all to the other area. Like we can't plant trees around that path or um I guess we wouldn't be maintaining the trees around that. Yeah, it was more about how much clear cutting we're we're doing and Yeah. >> So, there would be little if if you planted trees, there would be the small trees. Again, >> um also in terms of the generator and trash, I >> is that the like what's important about that where it is that that is where those things need to be. Can you just explain that to me? >> Uh just because of all the other constraints on this side of the of the site, right? So, we have the retaining wall here. We're right up against the slope here. Um, it just it from

103a function perspective, it also allows from a circulation perspective for a truck to come and go, you know, be able to back in. Um, we tried it a number of places, but that seemed to make sense. Um, the generator probably could move, you know, a little bit one way or the other. Um the other piece I would say is from an engineering and execution perspective to do a a walk like this is is fairly ownorous um and costly. So, um, we kind of felt that if you if you go with this plan where you have accessibility in kind of really like a grid line, um, plus this path here that again is not not formally accessible, but is is most definitely would be used by folks pushing strollers and and things like that. Um, that

104that was kind of a a better approach. >> Yeah. I mean, I I'm I'm tending to agree. I I think that little swervy path um looks fun for kids, but it might be >> Yeah. Otherwise, >> I think go also our fear fear, honestly, is that if you give someone this, they're just going to go up the sidewalk anyway because this is too too much. >> Yeah. But I um I appreciate the careful look at this because I do think that is a critical issue of people being able to to have an accessible path even if it's a little longer. from the street to the the back side of the site. I think that is to me that I think was fairly critical that we have that make that happen. Other opinions from the board

105on those two options? >> Does there does there have to be I mean I just don't know. But it does there have to be some sort of sign that says we know well not a sign that says we know this doesn't qualify, but like um like we don't have to like dissuade somebody from using the red line path. Correct? like stop them or put >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I would envision, you know, again, that that if we put in this curvy path that was fully accessible, that regardless of your of your abilities, you may still use the regular sidewalk because it's easier, faster, and straighter. >> When I'm hearing accessibility, this about handicapped accessibility. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Or strollers. >> And I'm hearing about tree plantings. Is is it a requirement?

106Are we asking for trees or can it be some other vegetation >> um >> like tall grasses for example >> some something some things some things are required and I assume that there there'll be other lower plantings as well for visual impact >> I thought we're going to try to avoid a path that requires those trees coming down I misunderstand >> no that's what they're suggesting >> and that's what I think sounds like we all kind of agree with >> okay so I'm not sure I I guess I'm confused why you thought trees are coming down if we're leaning that way. >> No, I think I was just trying to better understand >> the accessibility part >> if we're asking for planting some sort. >> Okay. So, um so it seems like we're in general

107agreement not to do the the swervy path, but to but but there is accessible routes. they can be clearly marked so that people maybe if you don't quite understand that grade um that seems like a um lowhanging fruit. >> Do you know what kind of material is is there on that accessible path? Is that a porous pavement or is it what kind of material is on that accessible route? just um it would just be I I forget what the proposed if it's asphalt or or concrete, but just typical um sidewalks, not gravel, not porous pavement, nothing fancy, just whatever the whatever that I think we have um I think we've proposed asphalt walks. Is that right, Brendan? Except at the building at the building aprons, everything is concrete and I >> Yeah, around the building

108is definitely concrete and then um it's it would be asphalt kind of on drive and that's the same condition as the south side. So >> yeah, exactly. I think that would match what's on the other side of the street. Yeah. >> So I don't think we need a sign for that. I think people can see that. >> Yeah. And I don't think that that's typical that you would have a accessible path sign, but um >> there's no >> Yeah, >> I think people will notice it. >> Okay, so um it's nearing 8:45. Um I think we're got through a lot of things today and I think hopefully we're giving the YMCA some some clarity about some of the issues that have been coming up. Um I think there's a short list for next time. We'll

109um be looking at the traffic again next time. We haven't had a chance to review it. GCG may have been gotten back hopefully by that time um for whatever remaining questions there are. Um are there any other questions from the board that we want to give to the Y for when we meet next time? >> I mean, I'm of the opinion we can probably start drafting some kind of decision. I I think we're getting extremely close. We're I'm not hearing any kind of concerns about the project. I'm just hearing a working out of a couple of points. So, >> I for one think we can start drafting something. I'm not saying we're going to have it ready to wrap up, but I'd like to start looking at a draft. Personally, >> I think that's a

110good idea. Is that something we can put on your >> Absolutely. >> on your empty plate. >> Yeah, sure. Okay. and hopefully a draft that kind of touches upon some of these points um >> that we've discussed today so that we can start thinking about conditions and actually have a conversation with the applicant about those whether it's >> whatever it is whatever has come up today so that we can >> start be to be on the same page and look at language together with the applicant. >> Okay. Um >> do you want that for the 13th? When when when are we >> Well, the 13th's next week. >> Yeah. So, I don't think we're gonna I don't think we're going to get there for then, but um >> till December. >> Yeah. So, um I

111guess at this point, and like I said, I our next meeting is next week and then uh it's Thanksgiving. So, we we kind of changed our meetings um to so we could get two meetings in this month, even though we'd typically meeting on Thanksgiving. So, I think that would put us in the first meeting in December. And right now I would just ask to say first meeting in December because one of the things the board has to do is to figure out what we want to do in December because otherwise we're meeting on Christmas Day as well which I don't think anyone's going to want to show up to. >> And the traffic report looks like there are a lot of things that may need responses and I'm guessing the applicant is going to need

112time to respond to these. There's lot of related to pedestrian traffic, sightelines, truck fire truck movements. So I think >> sometime are we visualizing something in writing from the applicant on that? What's our vision here as far as >> just >> yeah m to the chair? Yeah, we we're already working on a response and then we plan to meet with the NAS and hopefully get a response back from them. So there there should be not to say ignore what's out there now because it's a thoughtful review, but given us a couple weeks here to get to December, there'll probably be a few okay updates from both sides and a much clearer hopefully cleaner report that that the board can review prior to that meeting. >> Great. Does that sound good to everybody? >> Okay. So,

113um, unless there's any questions from the Y, we will look to continue this to the first meeting in December whenever we determine that we be and we'll let you know. >> Yes. Can I just get a quick clarification just in terms of what we would be, you know, again, I think we're hoping we can do responses to the GCG comments to our responses in writing, presuming that we get those um, soon. And we're hoping we can do the traffic comments in writing to Vaness. So the only things that we would actually come back to present on is the tree conversation. >> Maybe the corner if you've got an update from Hong Kong. >> Yeah. So again that to for us if if the town can put some pressure on GCG. I know they've been authorized.

114We really need to get their stuff so that we can get back in front of we've had to continue our consom over and over because we're waiting on those. So that's really really important for us. >> Yes. So then I think it was just yeah just a a um an answer about um a public bus stop, you know, if the if the public bus goes in there, how um wise response to that. >> Um I think >> I think that covers it. >> That's all the notes that I have. >> Okay. >> So >> thank you so much. >> Great. We'll look forward to seeing >> and I guess we're aiming for a draft or start to have a draft to work with as well. >> Yes. And we will be um we'll we >>

115for the first meeting in December. >> Yes. Have have Jasmine work work on a draft um a draft decision document um that we can start reviewing the first um the first uh meeting in December. >> And when are you all determining your December? Um >> at the end of this meeting. We'll >> Oh, okay. Very good. Okay. >> We need to look at our schedules and just uh get a couple things on the calendar. >> Okay. Perfect. >> So, do you need a motion to continue? What are we doing? >> Actually, um Madam Chair, if I may, just for the record to for the for the public record and in terms of, you know, keeping the meeting open to the public. >> Yep. >> Should this at this time be continued to next week just

116to have a date certain? I just want to make sure there's no issues with continuing at this point to a date uncertain in terms of, you know, public notice and whatnot. >> Um, I'm okay. I'm okay with if we do that and then if we'll just have to continue it out again. >> Um, and that'll allow us to get our dates in in line as well. Um because I was just thinking that but there may be things that Yeah, I think we'll know the dates that we're meeting after this meeting, but let's do that. Let's continue it to the 13th, but we're likely not really meeting on the 13th. We're just kicking it kicking it forward from there. >> I'll reach out to Mike Carter and see. >> Okay. So, um >> you need a

117motion to continue until next week. Are we taking any public comment on this today? Sure. I'll take public comments on it today. Is there any comment from the from people in the room or people online on the YMCA? >> Seeing none, >> I'll make a motion to continue. 30 Memorial Drive, YMCA, U special permit, site plan review, design plan review, site alteration, special permit, all of that >> to next Thursday, which I believe is the >> 13th, the 13th of November. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Roll call vote. >> Anna Tesmaniti I. >> Scottier. I >> and Trisha Kendall. Okay, we will probably not see you on the 13th, but at least we'll have information when we will see you. >> Very good. >> Thanksgiving, everyone. >> Thank you, too. >> Thanks.

118Bye bye. >> Okay, next on our agenda. Oh, if I can find it. >> Here we go. Yes, is 117 Oregon Road. special permit modification. Um is uh Dominica >> No, I don't have her. >> Okay. Um so, uh this obviously is the same tower that we we just did. Um if you looked at the drawings, um I think they sit a little lower on the tower um than T-Mobile. Um the uh uh Dominica who we've who has typically presented the project before did raise a concern that in our agenda um in our agenda we have accidentally listed T-Mobile instead of Verizon and six antennas instead of three um because it was obviously copied and pasted from the last one which is almost the same. I am going to call this a scribner's error that

119it's in the exact same poll. Um if if town council or if there's a problem with that, we'll put on put it on our agenda for next time. If there's a problem, I I think it's just it's obviously just a small error. Does anyone have any trouble if we just discuss it um and we can go from there if we need to? Do you see what I mean? Like this this is supposed to be Verizon and this is supposed to be three >> I think it's pretty clear that it's a boo boo. Um >> so >> it's hard to respond to that. Guess we'll we can go with that and hope town council is okay with that. As the chair, I have no problem calling it a scribner's error. And if if that is a

120problem, >> we will simply have we will simply have to do it again. >> I didn't see I went through and looked for the things that we um noted last time that that one little text that says >> things are in a danger area. It >> it's not on this. I looked for the is there any details that where they're putting something new in the ground there. There weren't. Um I looked at the pictures. Does the tower look like the tower we're talking about? It does. So So I think I think they picked up on the things and didn't allow um they didn't make the same mistakes as they did before. Um So here's a the report. Um the structural analysis said that it had sufficient capacity um and that is for Verizon. The um

121radio frequency said it's on a different form. Oh yeah, the radio frequency said um based on the analysis performed, there are no general generally accessible areas that exceed the FCC's general public and/or occupational limits at this at this site. Um other carrier antennas were also included in the modeling analysis. Um, so I didn't see any different anything different from um than what we had done last time. >> I don't have anything to discuss about. >> Okay. You're not just sitting there moodily. Okay. Does Does anyone else have any um >> That's just how I look. >> That's okay. >> Your general look. >> Wait, what was the word you used? >> Moody. >> Resting moodle face. >> Getting punchy already. >> All right. So, >> getting moodly. >> Moodly. >> All right. So, what do

122we need? We need a motion to >> just one quick question. on page two of this document. >> Which one? >> The application. >> The permit application. It's not actually page two, but >> it is >> but page two of the application. >> It's the site lease with option. I don't understand what that document is. So easier one is if you catch that highlight the next page the section three I don't know what that is referring to about replacing four with 11 thereby adding seven additional and fiveyear renewal terms not sure what that is referencing to with reference to this package don't know if we know about it. >> I think this document is out of this. >> I think they're I don't um I think they're they're providing the original lease agreement >> or

123I guess the the first amendment to their site lease which um the terms of the lease commenced on 2000 in 2007 >> which is essentially just proof that they have they they're allowed to do work on that. But this is T-Mobile's document. It's not >> the lease is T-Mobile, not Verizon. >> Yeah. >> Where is that? >> It's right below the next page. >> Okay. >> I mean, I don't know why this is part of this documentation. I'm just curious because It's they include it to show that they have they're allowed to do the work there because they don't own that property. They're only leasing that tower from >> But Verizon is not >> T-Mobile or Verizon. >> Well, that's we'd have to I'd have to check into that to see if there's there should

124be a separate lease for each carrier. >> Okay. So, so that's a fair point that even though um Yeah. So, we're just not sure why the the document is in there. Um, what's our uh date on this one? It's that we have to >> Oh, let me see. >> Oh, that was on my original sheet right here. Let's see. Um, cannot continue past November 13th. >> Okay. So, um, no, no, sorry, that's 501. Um uh we have to issue all permits. We need to hear and issue a decision on this by November 27th. So that would be doing it on the 13th. I don't think there's a I don't think there's a problem with that if we understand what the this question is. >> It seems like there is another one right after which is

125Verizon. I'm guessing that somebody just put the whole package together and sent it, but it may be a minor clarification. So you think there's there's two lease agreements in there is what you're saying? >> No, there's uh there's a permit Verizon application right after. So maybe just a clarification to understand why this was tucked in here. >> Yeah, they may have meant to include the one for Verizon defile check. >> Yep. Okay. So other than that, we have a clarification on what may be the wrong lease agreement in this package. Um, we don't have any other further questions or concerns on this tower. >> Nope. Sounds like we need to draft a decision for that as well. >> Draft a decision next week. We should be able to we should >> correct documentation or confirmation.

126>> Correct documentation. We should be able to uh >> get it signed. >> Yeah. >> You're just like finishing my sentences tonight. That's okay. saving me some uh energy. So, we can Yeah. So, we can uh vote and sign the decision when we just see that clarification, right? >> And that should be it. >> You can do it with just four in case I'm not able to make it. >> We can we would just need all four. We'd have to approve it. But >> yeah. So, so we we need u we need the rest of this. Okay. Is everyone else going to be here next week? Okay. All right. >> I'm gonna try to make it. I'm just >> just in case. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. So, um, and we don't even need

127a motion to continue that because it's not a public hearing. >> Right. Okay. So, we're just moving on to the next item on our agenda. >> I think the next one I'm disqualified, so I'll step out. >> Do we have just uh >> Okay. Yes. Just text me when you need me back. >> All right, sounds good. >> Do you want um my fob to get in the office? >> Do you want my fob so you can sit in the office? >> Sure. >> Yeah. You want to come get me or? >> Yeah. >> Let's see. I do have a PowerPoint. I emailed Jasmine. >> Oh, sure. Give me just a moment. >> Okay. So, >> I can pull it up if you don't mind. I can >> That's fine. Yeah, perfect. Thank you. >>

128Meanwhile, the next item on our agenda is the 501 Pond Street extension. And this is not an extension, >> right? >> We are asking for an additional extension >> to beyond the current special permit and site plan uh extension uh expiration date of December 2026. >> We're asking for a one-year extension to December 2027. >> Oh, okay. I'll explain why it it's uh it is critically important to the project. Um I know that I saw the note earlier uh this evening about uh possibly pushing that to October. Um but I'd love the opportunity to explain why it's important to uh complete that today. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um why don't we >> That's great. >> Understand that then. I thought it was an error frankly. >> Oh no. I'm sorry. Yes. And I'm happy to

129provide an update too. Uh I know that we last spoke in uh May or I last presented to the board in May and I think there's some new members. So uh this is 501 Pawn Street in Ashland. Uh my name is Chris Grant. I'm with Wind Development. Uh we are the uh proposed developer. The site is currently owned by Tras Development. Uh Wind Development has not closed on the land yet. We are required under the purchase and sale to close in the land by next month. Um so part of the reason It's a factor in the reason why we're asking for the extension today. Uh so in May of last year of of this year, we uh presented in front of the board uh when uh became interested. We think it's an amazing project and

130uh originally uh anticipated developing this site under the momentum funding um which became available through the state to help stalled market rate projects get off the ground. Uh after learning that this site would likely not meet uh funding through the state with that round, we pivoted to uh make the project viable for low-income housing tax credit funding. So, back in I'm sorry, back in uh May of this year, we came before the board to ask for a modification to the special permit to increase the uh amount of affordability at the project to make an application to the state for LITC funding possible. Um so, with that complete, we have been full speed ahead on the design plan. We have 70% drawings and this is one of two projects that WIN is submitting for an application

131in the upcoming uh LITC round to uh HLC and Mass Housing uh this upcoming uh winter. So the NOA for that round was released uh last week. The preop is due December 2nd and the full application is due March 19th of 2026 which is a month behind what's uh we've seen in the past. It's usually um February. So it adds even more of a crunch to close and complete and start the project uh before year end of of 2026. Uh to give an example, the two projects that we had awarded last year, there's one on track to close before year end, and if it does, it'll happen in December. So, you know, with that that month lag on when the application is due, it just it it creates even more of a uh crunch in

1322026 to start the project. Um just we have a few other updates here uh we wanted to just highlight. I think um you know there's a couple of uh design changes that we have implemented nothing on the outside the exter >> I wanted to go through the if there's anything on there we should know >> yeah they're they're uh this they're similar so um just some of the uh highle uh uh so we talked through the uh the schedule no change to the overall unit mix or number of departments in the project. Um over the past several months, we've been advancing the drawings to 70% construction. And with that, we've made some tweaks to the ground floor, the amenities, uh the way that the building entrance flows to make it suitable for a wind project.

133We have, you know, the way that we prefer offices to be set up, back of house to be set up. Um so those changes have been made. Uh the finish and design package has been advanced. Uh, and it looks beautiful. Um, we've we've tweaked some of the amenities to add some things that we think will be attractive to future residents. Um, and to give an example, there's some uh a few additional work from home spaces. There's uh a what we call a uh public living room, essentially a larger work from home space, but has a couch and a TV. Some people like to hang out there on their laptop and work from there during the day. uh others will use it as a place to watch, you know, uh the big game or whatever, gather

134to to watch something on on television. Uh we also created a a maker room, which is something that is is relatively uh unique and we've seen in some properties recently. Uh but it's essentially a place where you can go and and build things. If you live in an apartment building, that's kind of hard to come by. Um you know, people have projects, they need to, you know, roll up their sleeves and build a piece of furniture or fix something. So, it's a place that you can go and and work on stuff. Um, or another place to have gatherings. Um, it's a good place to have a, you know, painting night or pottery, whatever. Um, we also tweaked the lounge to make it suitable for for gatherings. So, there's a clear split between uh a room

135that will be uh public for all residents to continue to use and a separate side that is really suitable for events and parties, which is, you know, very popular and buildings that we manage. So, uh, it's a nice room that has a, uh, an opening onto the courtyard that can be reserved by residents for birthday parties, um, you know, whatever type of gathering they they would like. So, on on that side, um, those are kind of the the changes to the project. Uh, from a design perspective, the big change is that we've made, uh, some uh, tweaks to satisfy passive house certification. Uh so we are pushing to meet the specialized opt-in code. Um we were aiming to meet the stretch code previously. So the the changes are kind of uh you know that's it's

136a rigorous uh energy code. So the changes aren't aren't too much but I can walk through uh what it means to this project. Um and uh and what was you know changed in the design to meet that passive house standard. Uh but we're excited about it. I think it will create you know a great product. Um development is is very dedicated to sustainability. Um and I think it's important to note because the second request that we're making uh ties into that. So um we can go to the next slide if you don't mind. >> Yeah. And can I just ask two questions? Um one has the commercial component changed in this. >> So so it's just the back of house stuff for the amenities that have changed that you've tweaked. The commercial component is has

137stayed the same. >> Commercial has stayed the same. Werf has remained the same. Um, and the facade has remained the same. U, we know that, you know, you all worked tirelessly on on that design and we're all very proud of it. So, we're, you know, we're happy to keep that as is. >> So, and the process that you are in now is the the deeper discount afford the deeper affordability numbers that you gave us in the spring. That's what your what your application is for in that um in that process. >> Exactly. So this coming uh next month and uh there's a a pre-application which is more essentially a high level overview of the project. We submit that to the state. They review and respond back saying project looks great. You're invited to apply to

138the full round which is in uh March of 2026. And the full application is more uh intensive. There's it requires to have the 70% drawing set complete as well as you know a number of other thirdparty reports. Um so essentially you you build out the full development plan. And uh so that's part of the reason why we've been advancing the drawing set to where it is today. Uh so that we're ready to make a successful application. And we've previewed this application with the state. Uh they're excited about it. I think it checks a lot of boxes. Um, you know, it's new construction, passive house. Um, there's uh I think a limited number of new affordable uh projects in in Ashland. So, it's something uh that uh at least on their initial pass, they seem very

139excited about and it's one of top priority prior priorities. We have two applications going in which is typical uh for us. So it is something that we're fully committed to and if we uh you know apply in this upcoming round we're we're very confident that we'll see this project through uh to a funding award next year >> for the benefit of our new members. Can you remind us what is that mix of affordable component where we were before when Tras had and what really changed after you took over plus the square footage of the uh commercial space that was locked in? >> Yeah, exactly. So the original plan with TRA uh which uh was uh documented in the initial special permit approval was for 25% affordable 75% market rate uh essentially mirroring a typical 40B

140deal. The change that we requested in May was to modify that income distribution to 15% market rate, 25% workforce at 110% AMI, which if you look at the rents are uh comparable to market rate, and then 60% at 60% AMI. >> Thank you. And then the afford uh the commercial square footage is uh in that uh 6,000 range. Yeah, we haven't touched it. It's it's um it's in the uh if you look at the rendering, it's it's that corner of the building on the top picture uh that you're looking at. >> So it's directly adjacent to the wounder in the front. Um, so we can probably go to the next slide. The next slide is essentially an overview of passive house construction which uh I'm happy to kind of breeze by if everyone's familiar. Uh

141if not I can give >> I am most familiar. >> Okay. >> I'm probably second most familiar. >> So maybe give us a give us an overview bit. You don't need to go into all the details. >> Yeah. Okay. So here it is. Okay. So uh essentially what it is is um so passive house design standards are uh an ultraefficient energy use uh design. So uh passive house usees very little energy for heating and cooling, reduces the energy bills for the residents. Um there's uh the design is airtight and well insulated. So we're layering on a lot of additional insulation. Um the building envelope, walls, roof, windows are super insulated and airtight to keep indoor temperatures sta stable and drafts out. So further reducing the need to uh to use heating and cooling. Um fresh

142air. So there's uh increased ventilation uh system with heat recovery that brings fresh air and removes stale air uh without using and wasting heat. Uh very minimal cold spots or overheating um and tested and verified. So the process is uh is pretty intense. You have to get certified. We submit energy models up front uh to get preapproved that the systems being designed meet passive outstand passive house standards and then the building has to meet strict performance standards and uh and ongoing uh inspections throughout construction. So someone's there every step of the way to make sure that the building is being uh constructed according to uh the passive house standards. you know, I can give you, you know, some some the next slide kind of takes that at the high level points and shows like, you

143know, what we're actually doing to the design at 501 Pond Street to to meet those standards. So, um, we've improved air tightness at the balcony doors. Instead of having sliding doors, um, we've, uh, designed in swing and outswing. So, we add that compression seal, uh, continuous insulation on the exterior of the sheathing. uh increased roof insulation from R35 to R50, continuous slab insulation, the double pane windows will likely be replaced with uh triple pane windows depending on the vendor that we go with. Um I think double pane is possible, but uh there's only a couple vendors that um you know we could go with. Then all electric ready provisions for future uh domestic hot water electrification. That ties into the second request uh that we're making. Uh solar ready, convert the in-unit ventilation to central

144to reduce the exterior wall penetrations and louvers and then the whole building will undergo blower door testing to uh ensure that the um the building is airtight. Um a lot of that is, you know, is is required under the new stretch code. So um it was it wasn't a heavy lift to go what we were planning on doing previously to passive house. But I think it goes a long way um especially uh to folks who are you know uh appreciate and you know want to live in uh the most sustainable uh building possible and I think it'll go a long way with the state and our application for for funding as well. In the new energy codes that were just passed in the last few years, the passive house standard has become if you do

145passive house, you're in that that's good with the state because it's at a high level at the most most strict level of of sustainability. Um, go to the next slide here. So, just a quick overview of the timeline. Um the initial special permit approval was in December of uh 2022 with an expiration in December of 2024. The previous owner or current owner uh applied for the special permit extension in December of 24 which uh was approved and extended the project the deadline to December of 26. uh when entered and and got involved around uh the beginning of this year in January. Um we came before the planning board in April and May of this year to seek the modification to the special permit and site plan to increase the affordability and then uh here today

146to request uh a few more tweaks uh to help uh solidify our plan and funding package to the state. the future um deadlines. I don't think it's here, but uh we under our PSA purchase and sale agreement, we are required to buy the land by next month uh December of 25. The pre-application was released last week, which is the the first funding application to the state for LITC financing and and the bond uh as well as other HLC uh subsidies that help uh fund these projects. Uh so that is due December 2nd of 2025. The full application is due uh March 19th of 26. Then funding awards are um we don't know you know there's typically in the past they've uh come out around June July. Given that the full application is a full month

147behind uh you know previous years it could be the same. It could be July, August. Um, so likely sometime in summer, either earlier or late summer, funding awards would be released at which point we would know if 501 Pawn Street was awarded. Um, or it is possible that it gets kicked to what's called the mini round. So there there's two application rounds per year. The first is the one that we're outlining uh here. The second is a mini round, which is essentially, you know, you reapply at some point in the summer, which would, if we ended up getting bumped to that mini round, we're further, we're pushing ourselves further into um, you know, closing in 2027. Construction start, we would make every effort. Um, this is, you know, we enter once we apply for a

148project, we're committed. Um, and we're making every effort to close as soon as possible. special permit expires in December. Um, we think it's it's very unrealistic that were awarded and starting construction, closing and starting construction uh before that deadline Q4 26. We would make every effort, but um I think that the realistic timeline is some point in in early 2026, assuming we're awarded in that first round and not kicked to the mini round. Um and then completion, you know, we're thinking uh as of today, it's roughly a 24month project, so a 2028 completion. Going back to construction start, I think the the range of outcomes um if we're awarded in that first round or in the mini round is a construction start somewhere between January February of 2026 or mini round is uh you know

149spring of I'm sorry 2027 and then uh spring of 2027. Um we can uh go to the next slide please. So, that brings us to our first request of a one-year extension on the site plan and special permit approvals from December 2026 to December 2027. Again, we want to reiterate that if we're applying, we are committed uh when we'll be extending uh expending millions of dollars to bring a project to closing. Um and we have every intention of closing as soon as possible. We do think that the December 2026 date is unrealistic in either scenarios. Uh and it's extremely difficult to close on the land next month without the assurance that we have we're submitting an application for a project that is viable under the existing special permit. So there's uh there's hesitation within the

150organization to close on the land without the assurance that uh an extension is available through 2027. And and I to repeat myself but to reiterate uh we're even with the extension for a year, we would be making every effort to close and start construction as soon as possible. It's in our interest and everyone's interest to uh to close. Um, so we wanted to talk that through. I know it seems like it's it's far out and uh but we're not just, you know, looking coming here to buy, you know, insurance. Uh, it's real and I think it would provide um the assurance we need to close on the land next month and push forward to submit the application and and make a push. >> I'm curious the rest of the wish list. Okay. Yeah, that's that's

151request one. There's uh a second request. So, we as the the uh special permit and site plan approval as uh currently approved uh request electric for domestic hot water. Right now, across our portfolio, we're feeling a lot of pain with uh electric costs. Um and uh for domestic hot water specifically, the difference between electric and gas is is roughly 5x. Uh it's not just a problem on the operating side. You know, obviously it's, you know, it's a it's a greater expense, which um, you know, means that there's less money available for other uh important operating expenses, but it's it's creating a problem on the underwriting side as well because these uh these projects are difficult to finance and every uh every dollar on the operating expense side counts. Um, anyone familiar with with these proformers,

152you know, you'd know that the operating cost for a new development such as this, it typically ranges a net 9,000 to 11,000 per unit. So, if you look at the difference between what we're seeing currently in our portfolio on electric for domestic hot water and gas for domestic hot water, uh, is is roughly, uh, 580 per unit verse 145. Um so 5x uh today uh we expect that in the future electric costs will come down. Um and we're we're building in the functionality to switch over to electric. What we're not asking for today is that we're you know committing we're asking to to design and install gas domestic hot water and that's it. Um you know there's no going back. We're designing in a hybrid system that would allow for a switch over to electric

153when the climate stabilizes, costs come down, and we can uh we can make that switch, which we'd be happy to make. Again, we're committed to sustainability. Um, and uh we'd be excited to to switch over to electric when uh when those costs stabilize. Um so yeah we're building in a hybrid system which is a uh you know essentially a a heat pump for domestic cut water that could run on electric or gas where we designed a larger uh electric uh meter uh system to uh add on the uh for the you know to allow for the increased usage of the electric uh heat pumps when we make that switch. So everything would be ready to go um you know designed for true uh ability to switch over. There's no additional work needed in the future.

154But it would help us on on two fronts today. You know, a getting the project underwritten, which is getting more and more difficult every day. There's, you know, cost going up across the board, construction cost, tariffs. Um it's a big number right now that we're not used to seeing. Uh and it it helps us underwrite gas. you know, to get the 145 per unit uh versus 580, which just helps things uh you know, get financed and closed. Um and then obviously on the operation side, if this persisted, it uh you know, it helps the project remain viable and above water. Again, you know, these this is a primarily affordable uh project with with fixed uh fixed income and revenue. there's a small market rate component, but um the the revenue side is is mostly fixed

155and the expense side is, you know, can can grow uh at any rate. So, it's um it's a little bit of relief that we're asking for to help make the project viable and uh and help make our application to the state successful. The um and the gas does not um the gas does not affect the p the passive house stat the designation or status. >> It doesn't. I should have mentioned that. So it is uh allowed under passive house. >> Right. >> The gas is only for domestic hot water. >> Only for domestic hot water. So the solar panels that's proposed is for all other electrical requirements in the building. >> Well, we'd have solar, but we also have electric HVAC. We have electric um uh Yeah. electric HVAC and then the ability to electric

156uh cooking. >> Exactly. Yeah. Electric uh cooking um and appliances. Exactly. Do you need both requests approved today? >> That would be um extremely helpful. Again, we're we're uh submitting or aiming to submit an application in one month um December 2nd and closing hoping to close on the land uh next month as well. So I think I think the first request is is the more uh vital the extension um that would create without it I think there's extreme hesitation to move forward. Um but both are are very helpful being able to underwrite this difference in our pre-application to the state would go a long way. Um so and I know I think next month looks busy from what I heard. Um >> and when is the design team looking to complete their construction documents? >>

157So we have 70% right now. Um I think that from from that perspective the push to go from 70 to CD starts at award. So uh summer of 2026 we're awarded. We're doing a lot of diligence between then, but the push to go from 70 to 100% CDs kind of happens in that time frame of uh you know summer to early fall of of that year before construction start. >> So this particular ask would be helpful for your application now in December but from the drawings perspective they don't need it till next year because this has got engineering impact. >> Absolutely. Yeah, this should have we have some engineering impact here. Uh but we have time to get this incorporated into the plans. I think having the uh the uh approval here is enough for

158the state to underwrite this. It doesn't have to be incorporated in the design set. >> Chris, question for you. Is that site ready to handle the gas talking about because we just got a whole new 126 finished paved? >> Yeah, it's a good question. Um I there's something that we should talk about last four years. >> Yeah. >> They're not going to dig it out till 2027. >> Yeah. It's a conversation that we'd love to have. Um so we'll we'll uh I I can't answer that right now, but we'll uh yeah, we should revisit that soon. Is the is the town being kept in the loop or you know about your progress through the system of the state system of the you know the affordability process the the lending is that something that we're kind

159of aware of >> I'm I'm happy to provide updates as we go along uh especially once the application's ready you know send a note to everyone here saying application's in this is a summary of the package and then when the invitation to apply for the full application comes in happy to you know email email the group here to keep everybody up to speed. >> Yeah. I mean on the one hand I think um yeah I'm understanding the date now given the you know given given the calendar that that you're looking at and >> I don't want there be any any doubts in that. So I don't have a I don't have a problem extending that calendar. Um the gas I get I I personally I get too. We put in a heat pump and the

160thing's expensive. you know, let me tell you. Um, so, uh, on the other hand, we did get through a comprehensive plan process and we have a document about that and about sustainability. So, I want to be sensitive to to that, you know, and the different parts of that document. Um, so, but >> this is hybrid. He's not just so >> Yeah, >> it's got that hybrid component and it's only for hot water. >> It's not for 90% of the building, you said. So, >> I understand. >> Doesn't seem like a red flag to me. >> Okay. >> Hot water is for the heat as well or just hot water? >> Uh, it for the heat. Yeah. >> No. Uh, >> it's for the heat. >> No, hot water. >> Sorry. Domestic hot water. >> It's

161for showering and dishes and yeah, exactly. It's not electric hot water baseboards. >> No, no, no. Absolutely not. >> Electric heat. >> Yep. Sorry. Apologies. Yeah. >> For washing and bathing hot water. >> Scott, you're good with the gas? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Hybrid. >> Well, I mean it's not it's hybrid. You mean the the capability is hybrid? >> We can switch over. Yeah, you can switch over, but it will be just gas at this point. If nothing changed from right now, >> if nothing changed as we probably switch on the gas. >> Yeah, that's right. Okay. >> All right. Um, well, are we ready to do this today or is anyone just >> Yeah, I think we can. Right. Just >> He had a very compelling presentation. So, I don't see any reason

162why we should not >> once you on timeline wise. So once you guys get approved for your you you you buy the land, you put in your proposal, you get funded, you will then come back to us for kind of final touches on >> the design of everything or is this are we done now? Like >> I'm asking because I don't know the >> we have an approved special permit and site plan. Uh but we we're more than happy to keep you informed throughout the process and provide updates. >> Yeah. I wasn't here for the other >> Yeah. times you guys came. So, I was just asking >> you missed the one-year fun. >> Yeah, I'm sure extensive and awesome. So, >> I heard there was a lot of fun. >> The 11:00 nights. Sure.

163But >> I do want to um before we do anything, I want to open it up to public comment. We don't have too many people in the room, but we have some people online if anyone wants to make a public comment about this project, this agenda item. Please raise your hand. Anyone going to raise their hand out there? Okay. ask question. This is for the property that's the property and the senior >> that's the it's a housing project. >> Yeah. >> I didn't see I came in late on the pictures like I seem to remember years ago I used the speedway for example the speedway was designed like speedway supposed to be aesthetically pleasing to they were modeling 126. >> Could you step to the mic? >> Sorry. >> They were modeling 126 to um

164it was either Salem or um somewhere else. I can't remember. But that whole quarter, everything is supposed to look aesthetically frontwise. So they they were wanting um the route 126 development to look a certain way at the time. I mean we're talking 30 years ago. So I don't know if the town is still leaning towards that way or I >> because I don't think we want another situation of where we just had next to Federated Church. You know I I I think you know we want still that small town Ashland feel. >> Yeah. Um obviously it's a if I mean one of the original uh images showed that it's four stories I think >> four stories >> but um but it is a project that we worked really hard on for a year. The planning

165board did with the applicant. So it's not a small building but it's next to a build big building as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's also set back further. It's set back further like toward the >> what's that? Uh the u those condos behind behind Shaws. Don't they run that whole length like >> Yeah. The parking lot's kind of in front of it and stuff, right? Like there's a >> they border that. >> Yeah. Yeah. But that's but it's in between that. >> It's in between that. >> Yeah. So, um it is a project that we Yeah, we were we're very careful with the design of it. Um so, uh but I understand Yeah, definitely understand your concern. I'm not sure what the the design was for the 30 use of >> I mean, if

166you look at the the what's now the speedway, >> the front of that They wanted everything kind of looking like that where it had the white post, the tan >> and, you know, having that, you know, not looking like Framingham, but looking like a small, you know, back roads country town, you know. >> Yeah. Probably with the Pond Street Overlay district that went in, I think after that. I don't know what year that was. That probably changed a little bit in the in the nature of that town and that kind of resulted in getting the money to redo that that road. Um I'm not sure what the I'm not sure what the timing um of that was when it was adopted, but yeah, it wasn't here 30 years ago. So in Ashland anyway, um yes,

167I'm not wrong section, but I'm not sure what year that was was coming on. But I understand your concern. It is it is it is a larger building um but with it definitely has a different design aesthetic than >> don't want no like gody looking. >> Yeah, this is the rendering right here. Yeah, there's a there's a public area out in front of it planted and um where actually the public can go and have events there. Um it's a little hard to see in these images, but it is on in the the whole front of the building. >> Yeah. Is this whole uh wounderf, which is a a word that I learned on this project. >> We did too. Yeah. >> Yeah. is a beautiful space that separates the building from the street with uh

168trees, public walkways, and uh places to sit and and >> do we have to have like the blue and the white and the black maybe like all one color so it's not like more aesthetically pleasing. >> I'm afraid that >> yeah that the that that all has been approved so it's just this extension that we're that we're looking at. And the the great thing about this project um is that that the affordability level is much much more serious than in other projects we have. >> Yeah. So anyway, but >> nothing else. >> But thank you. I appreciate your comment. >> So you just need a motion to accept >> I think we need a motion to accept both of the each of the items. The extension and the modification. >> The extension and the modification,

169I guess, is the words you can use. I >> move that we approve the extension and modification of 117. Oh, sorry, one 501 Pond Street. >> Yeah, that's it. >> Y >> second that will >> I. >> And Trisha Kendall I. So, >> thank you very much. >> Good and good luck and if you would keep the town in >> we'll keep you updated. >> Okay. All right. Appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Chris. >> All right. Oh, we can get Anna. >> Yeah, text her. >> Yeah, I think she's just sitting right there. What's that? >> I'm going to I'll be right back. >> Okay. >> I know they're waiting, so I want to be I'll be super fast. >> Yeah. Nope. No worries. Um Okay. Now, gentlemen, you're on. Um who uh

170who is speaking on this one? But um do we have someone here representing the subdivision? >> Who that would be there? >> There we know at the very beginning that before we got there. >> There's no public comment. No public comment for actually any land use whether it's >> we still have it. >> You may still think there might be people online too. >> Yeah. But just keeping like this is very prol Yeah. >> Okay. So, we're just Scott will be right back. So, um Just waiting for waiting for our other board member uh before we start. But um a question, Jasmine, did you they they knew they were on the agenda for tonight? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> They did. Yeah. >> And have they been getting some updates about the other discussions we've

171been having about this? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. So, they may have decided not to come. >> Okay. That would be unique, but they may have. >> And we haven't received any email or any. >> No. >> And um and these aren't about continuing. We don't continue these necessarily because >> it's not a public hearing. >> It's just feedback on the preliminary design. >> Okay. >> Um >> All right. Interesting. >> Okay, Scott, to review the few questions I was asking Jasmine um on this our last official agenda item for the evening, the Caroline Drive Preliminary Subdivision. There apparently is no one here representing the the applicant. It's not you three, right? >> There's no one here representing the applicant >> unless there's someone online. I don't know who L. Kennedy is. >> If there's someone

172online representing >> No, it's not >> this applicant, they should let us know. >> Um but otherwise, it doesn't seem we like we have someone here representing uh the applicant. So, um that said, however, I we don't need someone here to look at and understand what this subdivision is and the action that would we would take on it. You're going to correct me if I'm we're on here. Okay. Um so, and you have the drawings, right? So, um Jasmine, can you just explain preliminary subdivision? >> Absolutely. So, the role the way preliminary subdivision works is that they're literally coming in and saying, "We have a draft subdivision plan. We're going to show you all the ways that we think this subdivision works. And we'd like for your feedback to look at this and tell us

173is this a plan you would be willing to approve under the conditions we've proposed. And at which case we give our feedback for them to come back with a definitive subdivision plan. And at that point, that's the plan that if we vote on this plan, a preliminary plan, nothing happens. They still have to come back with a definitive subdivision plan for us to actually approve and record at the registry of deeds. and it gets recorded at the with our assessors downstairs and then we update our assessor's maps and our online GIS maps. A pre a preliminary plan they we could approve this and they may never come back with a definitive subdivision and it it holds no weight. It's just saying we've reviewed this and we say if you would like to apply for the

174definitive subdivision with what you've shown us, here's the feedback. We think we could approve it based on these conditions or we think we couldn't based on these. And it's really just them getting the feedback before they spend that much money in engineering to get 70 to 100% drawings done. >> And then if we do approve this preliminary one, they could come back and we could not approve the secondary one. >> Absolutely. There's no there's no um you could approve a preliminary and there's nothing that says if you've approved the preliminary that you absolutely have to approve the definitive. There's no legal binding in anything you do with the preliminary plan. And what if you do not approve a preliminary? What what happens then? What >> they would come forward hopefully with substantive changes with hopefully

175another preliminary unless they agree and we set forward clear standards that this is why and they felt comfortable coming forward with a definitive subdivision plan based on the feedback. Usually they come back with another preliminary to make sure that >> so even if even if we would vote down this preliminary they could choose to come back with another preliminary or they could choose to come back with a definitive which would be a big leap but they could >> absolutely >> um and and voting this down does not mean that they have to wait a year before they do it again or anything like that. >> Right. Unlike a special permit. So, a special permit if you denied they would have to have substantive change or wait two years to reapply. That doesn't apply to land

176use. >> Okay. I think then even though we don't have anyone here, it's it's in it's in front of us and we may be able to make a decision on it anyway if we >> and and we definitely have some feedback from conservation and from fire which were the two you most important DPW has looked at it as well. They just concurred with conservation. And um >> when you say concurred, you mean with Becca's email of November 3rd? >> Becca and and the fire department's email of >> because I read Becca's November 3rd email, which seems to indicate delineation should happen before we make this decision today. >> That's where I see the fire one. >> Oh, there. >> What time did that one come through? >> Um that was from Chief Roby. I did

177not see that one in email at all. >> I did. >> So, did he agree with her that the delineation was necessary? >> Chief Roby gave different feedback. He didn't say about the delination. His was about the uh I was concerned with the driveway length and he said obviously the driveway length is a big issue here. He refers to NFPA1 fire code access requirements saying it is a fire road a fire access road up until it divides into the two driveways and they need to follow access requirements. This would require a turnaround area the proposed culde-sac um under 18.2.3.4.4. Both access points need turnarounds due to distance and it also states a width of 20 feet and it's only proposed to be 18 on the plans. So they they're concerned with the driveway width to

178get the fire trucks through. Lastly, the concerns distance to the hydrant. So the nearest hydrant on these plans is pretty substantially far away. It's down here. This is the closest hydrant here. So to get to the houses on this end of Caroline Road, they would like to either see another hydrant be brought in or to have these two houses sprinklered. >> So it's four houses, >> four houses. Each of the red squares is a house and a garage. So they've got they're proposing two culde-sacs as paper roads. They don't want to build these culde-sacs. They want to use these culde-sacs on the plan to create frontage for the lots, but not construct them. and they want to construct these as driveways as it's shown in the red here. Um, fire is saying they would like

179these culde-sacs built because of the turnaround. There's no way that fire can come in here. If they pull down here, they have to back all the way out this driveway. Same thing with this driveway up here. To pull in up to this left, you'd have to back all the way down this driveway. This only provides an 18 feet width. They need a minimum of 20 ft width to get the fire trucks through safely. Um, in addition, what conservation had mentioned, each subdivision requires each lot has to have a certain number of square footage of uplands. This requires a minimum um of I believe 25,000 square feet of uplands, but I'll get you that specific number. But conservation is concerned that these wetlands may actually be more restrictive than it shows and that these upland numbers

180would change if they did an abbreviated notice of resource area delineation, which they recommend before we approve any definitive plans that we make sure that this upland number is in fact what it is. Because if you if you approve the definitive subdivision and then they go and apply for an ANRAD after the fact, you can't resend. >> Well, I think technically Becca is saying before we make the preliminary decision. >> I mean, I think you should know, but certainly before a definitive again, you could take you could take this preliminary and say we approve this with >> Well, we could also listen to Becca and say >> absolutely. No, we'd like another preliminary until we have an >> There is no requirement we approve the preliminary. No, no, not at all. Not at all. >>

181And I feel the same because there's fire chief's also input that has not been taken into consideration at this point. So, um, not sure what the pressure is to approve it before those comments are addressed. And I can see, I mean, just from >> Yeah. safety point of view, you can actually see that even though the turnarounds look massive, >> but when you take into account the length of the truck, the width of the truck, even just to make this turn, now they have to back out of that driveway >> during a snowstorm during the winter time. But even if they put a culde-sac there, they're still going to have to >> this this particular driveway, regardless of the culde-sac or not, is too long. And they would either have to reduce the driveway length

182or sprinkle the house, even if they built the culde-sac with the culde-sacs. The other three houses are not an issue. But this one is a concern with both both designs. >> But we also just need the basics. To me, Becca's email was pretty much I'm done with that meeting. If there's commentary from Concom that there's no delineation, we don't even know what we have a plan versus wetlands. >> I don't really I'm not going to be approving the preliminary. >> That's my position on this. >> Yeah, apparently they're showing wetlands on there, but they're not verified wetlands. So, it's um um the calculations that they could do on the buildable lots. We don't we can't really do those calculations because the lines they're giving us aren't verified. nor can we comment on the on this

183as well because there's no delineation. >> So, >> which is extremely premature. >> I want to though um make sure we I want to make sure I offer public comment on this. We have >> I just have some like logistic questions because it's just listed as zero, right? But there's two different entrances and >> so is this the real zero? >> Okay. can if somebody can. >> Um, >> so technically right now this is all one lot. So their proposal is to divide this into the four lots and we would assign the addresses after. So it would be right now this is one single lot listed as zero. Um I believe it's Caroline, >> but this is like a this is a I'm trying to speak loud. I'm sorry. This is a dead end. >>

184Yeah. >> What's this? >> That's a dead end as well. Oh, there is a >> So if you wait just a lot. >> So um >> this is just a lot right now that they own. So this is just >> No, they don't they don't own that. That's an easement. >> Easement. >> An ement. Sorry. But there's nothing constructed there right now. This is >> it's grass. >> So uh so to follow our to follow a procedure, you need to state your name and address and then you must can proceed with your comment. Uh, I'm Brian James, 29 Adams Road, Ashley, Mass. Born and raised here 44 years. >> All right. >> So, if you if you come down Elliot Street and you take a left on to Caroline Road, you go down Caroline Road,

185Caroline Road is a dead end. >> Mhm. >> But it veers left onto Adams and that's when Adams starts and then Adams goes all the way to the end and it's a dead end. My house is the last house on the right side after the Eastman. >> So you're you're this corner right here. >> On that last corner house. Yes. Right there. That's that's my house. There's a there's that's all woods and there's tons and tons of 80 to 100 year old trees. specifically right on the corner right where that the fire hydrant on the there's another house across the street from my that fire hydrant right is at the end of their driveway and as you take that turn onto the eastment it's a very rough corner and there's a hundred-y old oak right

186there so to get that turn to get a fire truck in it wouldn't even be able to make that turn unless that tree was cut down and several other trees were cut down. The other fire hydrant at the end of the street is at the at the ver where where you know Caroline turns into Adams. >> So there is a there is a fire hydrant already down somewhere. >> Okay. >> There's two, but they're on the um the the other side of the street. Okay. Not on my side. >> Got it. Okay. They're on the uh even number side of the street, not the odd side. >> So, it's maybe not marked on the other. It seems to be marked here, but it's not marked on that down. >> Yeah. Okay. Great. Thank you. Any

187other comments? >> Use the microphone. >> Yeah, hold on. We're just going to move the microphone down. >> Thank you. is uh I've been there 53 years. I maintain that show between my house next door where the easement is. There's a line of trees there that goes down and then it goes into his property. And I'm I'm kind of a I'm just trying to figure out why it's a zero Caroline, but yet we got to come down to Adams to get into to down there. It just doesn't make sense to me. I I I might be wrong, but it's >> What's the easement for? Like, is it like a property between the two houses? Is >> Yeah. In the 1950s, the developer that built all the houses on Adam's Road owned this piece of property

188or was turned over to the the developer because he ran out of money. So, for all these years since 1955, it's been uh Trombi is is the owner of the land. I don't know if he passed away or whatever. I knew Jimmy pretty well. And I think now that he's gone, the family is trying to get rid of this piece of property that really nobody's been able to build on. But with the new methods of building and stuff, there might be a way to do it, but it just >> So the easement was to give access to the back of that piece. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. I have like easements all over my property and some are for like defunct gas companies and stuff. So, >> right. And the Eastman also runs into the

189sewer. And the sewer line is behind all those houses. >> Yeah. Runs from Sheffield. >> The sewer that was down >> Oh, to my house and up out up to Tri >> goes to Tri Street. >> That's what the SNH is. >> I assume that's what the dashed line with the >> Yeah, that's that's >> Yeah, that's the sewer line >> and that was put in 25 years ago as a part of that. 126 redevelopment project. >> Okay. >> Um any any other comments? >> There's just a it's it's mostly woods. There's not any field out there to speak of. So I I you know I question if you start tearing down all of the trees how that's going to affect the existing wetland that they've got drawn here. And of course this was all

190done during a drought. I I'm not conservation, so I don't know how they can tell what is what, but it's it looks dry right now, but it's not. That's all I >> Thank you. >> I I'd also like to make a comment. Uh >> Tyler James, 29 Adams Road. Uh, also for both of the different properties, the especially the one on the right is in a it's very kind of hilly and steep there. So, I don't even know if they'd be able to build those roads because that picture doesn't do the terrain justice and it doesn't do the wetland justice either because it does get a lot wetter there like he said and they've both said and even for for one on the left side too. it. The terrain's also difficult because of that easement

191that both us and our neighbors to the right of that easement on the left have both kind of like used it over the years almost except for that middle part where there's trees. >> Okay. >> Because >> Yeah. Great. Thank you. I mean I think some of the issues obviously will be um um concom looks at this um as well. >> So concom does not look at a subdivision. So what happens is if they go to if we if you approve the preliminary plan they come back with a definitive subdivision which you would approve and they would record at the point they go to start to construction. And that's the point they would apply to conservation when they go to construct the single family homes. At that point, they would review um the wetlands surrounding

192the property. At no point in a subdivision do we It's not a site plan. It's not a special permit. So, we don't look at things like grading, clearing. The only thing we can look at is access, lot size, uplands, buildable area, things of that nature. >> But isn't isn't part of the uplands though especially if we think it's not necessarily could be accurate. Isn't that part of Concom? >> I think >> it is, but you have to you have to remove that. So you cannot look at a plan and deny it because you think it might have wetlands. They're allowed to go to Concom and apply under that. We have to make sure that it has adequate uplands to create the subdivision. But if they do the ANRAD and it comes back and yes, they

193have appropriate uplands for subdivision requirements, you technically have to approve it by law and then allow it to go to conservation then for them to >> You're talking about the final one? Yes. I'm talking about definitive. Definitive. Yes. Preliminary. You're not >> There's no We have to approve it. >> Right. Right. There's no >> no requirements for preliminary. That's just if it was definitive. If you approved it, you you have to make sure it has the adequate amount of uplands, but then you have to release it to conservation to review the seex. So, so we're saying we there's no in um in a way there's no way we can verify the amount of uplands because the ANRAD hasn't verified where that wetlands line is. Right. >> And so we can't measure the land properly. Exactly.

194It can't be measured properly. So it's a guess right now if there's enough land to do this on all the lots like >> Right. >> Some of them are if they need to be what 25,000 >> but the ANRAD would be very separate. So the ANRAD would tell us which is what we would want would tell us the amount of uplands but then they after that even after say that does satisfy all of the requirements if it does get approved they still have to go to conservation to file to build within that area regardless. So the ANRAD isn't like a blanket approval. It just tells you we now we know exactly. >> It's just a deliation. >> Exactly. Exactly. It's not an approval of any kind. It's just saying we're confirming the >> Wis. I'll

195take the public comment from online. >> Margie, can you state your name and record address for the record, please? >> Margie Gel, 8 Adams Road. I had some concerns about this project, but after hearing the what was said before about the concerns from the fire department and the fact that Becca said that delineation should come before approval and the fact that the applicant isn't here, I don't know why you would give a preliminary approval at this point. >> Yeah, I'm not sure if there was a miscommunication. I we don't know why the applicant isn't here, so I can't make a a a call on that. >> Well, regardless, I would urge you to wait before you make a decision. >> Right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um, yes. So, it seems like there's two

196issues. Obviously the unclear on the uplands, the amount of uplands buildable land and obviously the um the the issues from the fire department which need seems significant um and and that this plan does not address those issues. Um so is this does someone have a recommendation that they would like to make? >> I'll make I'll make a motion to deny the preliminary uh subdivision. as we've discussed >> for reasons discussed uh specifically the lack of upline calculations that we can trust. It's essentially a theoretical concept that's not I don't think we have the ability to just in good faith approve it. So, but to be clear, I'm going to make a motion to deny the preliminary subdivision for Carolina Estates. Second that >> and uh well I should off I should offer opportunity for discussion

197amongst the board. Do we give them any notes when we send this? You >> I'll write up a memo saying this was denied based on these criteria and it'll be the upland delineate lack of upland wetland delineation. And >> and to Margie's point, I wonder like the applicant is not here. wonder if the applicant was not here because they saw that email and >> it may be it depends on the firm and I don't know this firm but sometimes it is standard practice that they don't go to a preliminary hearing because it is preliminary but it depends on the firm but it's >> and you said the advantage of preliminary is for them to progress >> so that way they can more easily change this design because they haven't gone to things like grading or

198anything like yet it's very preliminary ary like this just on a flat piece of paper. So it's a lot easier for them to make changes based on your comments than if they had gone through and done 90% design and they had done the grading work and everything like that. >> So in theory we could have said yes with some conditions basically >> right and then they would come forward with a definitive plan with the NRA and you know response to fire's comments technically. So the reason for that I I first started off with seconding that but then I stopped to think like should we get back to the applicant share our conversations without saying denying the application at this point because it feels like that's >> well they can we can still deny this one

199they can bring another one next week right it doesn't >> the only thing is there is there's a fee there's an application fee each time but it's up to the board you have the ability to wave any application fee if they so request What does what is the fee used for? How much is it? Uh >> the fee I could tell you what it is if I look online, but the fee is essentially just administrative costs. It goes it covers the office and the time that we take to do it. >> Have they requested that? If they request it, we can revisit that at our next our next hearing. >> They have not. But >> I don't think we should be inviting that. I think we should just see what they do. >> Is it

200like 25 bucks or is it like >> No, it's a few hundred. No, it's it's less than a thousand. So, it's less than $1,000. I could tell you in just a minute. I'll look at the cost, but >> I don't think it's rocket science for them to check in with Kong prior to coming to us in light of how messy this property is. So, I for one would have no issue denying it based on Becca's email alone. >> The fire too, right? >> Because you'll give him the notes about the fire ones, right? So, he'll come both. >> Yes, they should have both. >> Yeah, I would forward both emails to the applicant. >> Kind of speaks for itself. or >> yeah I I don't know um I don't know what would be standard to

201forward emails or to recap what is in the memo >> whatever works for them to generate um >> okay >> whatever works for them to make it clear that perhaps paying a fee again is perfectly reasonable >> all right so we do have a motion uh a motion are you continuing to second okay we have a motion on the table then we'll be looking for a roll call vote Deep Wenit, >> Anna Tesmanit Ike. I >> and Trisha Kendall I. So the mot the um preliminary >> preliminary subdivision >> subdivision um is not approved is denied. So um that concludes all our major agenda items. We actually do not have there there were no meeting minutes. Is that >> correct? The meeting minutes weren't completed. Usually um Laura has another week. Usually we wouldn't have

202met until the 13th. That's right. So >> um the >> So um >> preliminary fee is $1,600. I'm sorry. So it is over a thousand. So $1,600 plus $150 per lot created. Um so it would be 150. So that's 600. So would be 22 2200 is the fee. >> So if the applicant seeks a waiver, we can revisit that. >> But just for general in general, if any applicant asks for you to wave the application fee, that's completely your purview. We can't ever wave the public hearing notice fee and the fee for Butters. But if any applicant ever came to you and said, "I would request for you to wave this application fee." It's entirely the purview of >> And in theory, we could also reduce it. >> You could absolutely. It's It's your fee.

203It's up to you. You've said it. It's in the bylaw. >> Like, is there a check that I haven't been receiving? I'm just kidding. >> You're going to get the board in trouble there, Scott. >> Um, okay. >> Why don't we see how the applicant reacts to our position and if the applicant seeks some sort of mitigation or reduction, we can revisit it. >> Okay. Surprised that $2,200 didn't show up. >> I mean, Unfortunately, not entirely uncommon. Sometime, especially if they think it's like a slam dunk. >> I can't imagine they would because you you asked those questions about Yeah. So, >> yeah, >> could be an experience. >> It could be. >> All right. So, we do have a Let's see. Uh where my copy of the agenda is that I've been writing on.

204It's a mess here at my desk. I think I might have it on my computer if you want it. >> I I think I think I have it mostly. I just wanted to like under reports. >> Yes. So under reports uh the the current one differs from the the one the binders that I kept comprehensive plan on there because I think >> soon we will need to do comprehensive plan um implementation committee perhaps. So we might as well just keep it there as a placeholder. Is there anything to report from CPC or Metro West Regional Collaborative? >> Um, no. CPC, we just got a couple things come into um the town meeting. The um it is confirmed that the uh YMCA is not going to be presenting theirs at the time for the fall. So

205maybe in the spring. >> Okay. >> But >> okay. >> Issues to do with easements and fundraising. Deepa, anything from Metro West Regional? >> I believe there's another meeting that's coming up that I just saw an email yesterday. Today, >> yesterday they just sent it out. >> Yeah. >> Um, it's >> like a breakfast meeting. Oh, >> something in person. >> Wealth at 8:30. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, more to come. >> Great. Um, as for planning updates, we will now take the associate member search off the agenda. Yay. I am very I am sorry for the last minute. I literally uh found out on Sunday >> that I got a yes and I've talked to a dozen people about this position and I think she's going to be great. So I um I

206apologize for all the >> the quickness of it, but I'm thrilled to have her on board. Um so for our meeting next week, um we have 55 Tilton Avenue. Um this is the one where I will be recusing myself um and I will be chairing that um that project um and um uh >> next time. >> Yes, it's the opening meeting for it and Angel will um >> step in as our as our fifth member. >> Um we will also be hearing the having the in-law bylaw public hearing. Um uh I assume Doug Scott will >> Doug Scott will be joining us via Zoom. Yes, >> we'll be here with that one. Um he is the building. >> He's the building commissioner. Yep. Um >> so and uh to to review that. Um and then

207um we do have we do have Metro West on because it was continued to the third >> only because it was continued, but they have nothing to present yet. So they're just going to they gave us an extension until January, but they'll probably be continuing at least until if not December, January as well. >> So does that mean that they will have to um >> they'll have to submit a continuence? >> Continuence, >> but they've so we'll be looking for that as to where they want to continue to >> um Okay. And so the other thing um and and then uh Oregon Road will have to come down to get signed. a few things might need to get signed. Um, YMCA we continued to the 13th because we don't know where else to continue it

208to. So, if people can look at their schedules again for December, this is kind of the last thing we have to do. I I put this on the 13th, but we might as well talk about it now. Um, we have >> December 11th is our regularly scheduled meeting. >> Yes. And um you know I I think I put this on the third this is on my little schedule that I sent you about what's going to happen on what date and I said at November 13th at this meeting we will also review December meeting dates. Um, and I think I did that because it's only November 13th and maybe then we will know which of these projects >> will be continued. >> It could only be one. It could only be the YMCA and Tilton >>

209that need to be talked about and so it could potentially be a one meeting December. I just don't think we know that yet. Could it if it of those dates, the 4th, the 11th, and the 18th, does anyone know of dates that they will not be able um to be here? Oh, and just to you're out the 13th, right, Scott? So, you will >> I'm gonna try, but >> so you you may very well miss the be that meeting, but that can be your one miss of Tilton. I think it's on the 11th. >> Okay. Just to clarify that. >> I mean, my my preference would be the 11th >> to keep it on the 11th that just do one. >> That's what I would recommend for December. >> I given what we're looking at

210now and and the things that we got done. The only thing I see is I think the YMCA in Tilton. You don't have anything that you know of that's popping up at the moment? >> Nothing that I know of at the moment. And next Thursday would be the deadline to get anything on for the 11th and I haven't heard of anything coming in. So >> Okay. >> So, uh, YMCA, we said we may be ready to start >> documenting conditions. So, is that one meeting and be done then? We don't meet till January of 2026. >> I doubt it's going to be one I don't think we'll be done in that meeting. >> So, then does that mean December has more than one meeting? Then should it be 4th and 18th versus 11th? >> You

211know, we it's not something um Thank you you guys for coming. >> Thank you. No problem. >> Um we >> we don't have to decide again November 13th is only halfway through November. So we can hold this discussion >> until after our next meeting and we get a better lay of the land that we can either keep the 11th or we can choose two dates in there. It could be piggyback just like we're doing now. We're doing two dates close together or it could be spreading them out. But maybe maybe it's better to wait to see up to the 13th and then we'll decide what we're going to do in December. >> Were all of our meeting days for the year public? >> And the >> right they were all listed on our website. >>

212Yes. >> And the 11th is our standard date. >> Right. >> I'm not clear why we would need to consider two. Is there some sort of sort of statutory requirement where we must have a decision in December on the Y? >> No, it's just more that sometimes, >> you know, like when we were looking at this is one of the reasons we had two meetings. It was just way too much to do in one meeting, >> right? Okay. >> So, I don't anticipate that happen. But why? Maybe. >> So, they don't need the decision by December. >> No. No. >> Okay. >> So, to me, I'm not seeing such great uh volume that we need to do that in December. I also think December is a really bad month for public participation and I personally

213would not want to vote for the Y in December. >> Sure. Okay. I would want that vote in January. So, >> so let's keep it at December 11th for now and and if other things pop up, we will revisit it on November 13th to see if we want to make a change. >> Good. >> I think that's reasonable. And I also think December is a tough month for everyone. So, it's not the best time to rush decisions. Yeah. Okay. >> As long as we're making good faith progress on the draft. >> Yeah. >> I'm also not against having a meeting with the Y at the next next week and starting to discuss a draft next week even if they're not prepared with the parking response and the GCG response. I I don't think it's a

214waste of a meeting with them next week. You know, it could be it could be valuable if we want to start as we've done before that as you two know >> that we actually start to go through all of the listed conditions. >> Exactly. >> And discuss them as a group and take notes and therefore we're creating material to give to Jasmine about what to put in that decision. So that might be a good idea whether the why is here or not. They don't need their team here because we can just start to >> Scott may have trouble accessing. >> Oh yeah, >> it's true. But it's just a draft. It's just it's just for it's just to gain ideas. It's it's it's going to be seen several more times likely. >> Okay. >> So,

215>> it won't be if he can get on log in it won't be considered as one meeting out, right? >> Because they've already missed the initial meetings for Y. >> Oh, I see what you mean. Like if we discuss that >> I didn't miss any other meetings with the Y. I didn't think you >> No, before you started, we we had presentations from by >> but that wasn't part of the public hearing process. So that's >> Is that informal? >> That was informal preliminary. Yeah. So it doesn't count. >> We didn't post that. >> If you may have posted it, it doesn't it doesn't apply to the public hearing process because it wasn't we hadn't received this application yet. That was even before I got here >> that they gave their informal presentation. >> Oh.

216Oh, >> I was in a walk through. >> You were? Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Then you haven't missed me. >> Yeah, I don't think you have. >> Wait, is that when we restarted this application? No, I don't think so. >> In June. >> Let's confirm. Let's confirm that that Scott hasn't missed any YMCA meetings >> and then we can see if we want to use that meeting >> just to start going through some conditions. >> The only one would be if it happened before the election. >> So, did you guys >> And they didn't apply before the election. They haven't applied until after I got here. So, >> double check. Are you sure? >> Yeah, this application didn't come in until after I began. >> No, YMC has come in before you. >> But not

217they didn't apply. So, it doesn't matter. The It does the timeline doesn't start until I stamp >> meeting with us without an application. >> They had a preliminary >> a preliminary review and the timeline doesn't start until I stamp in >> the application with the clerk and that's when the timeline starts and when we start checking the Mullins rule. >> Interesting. >> Didn't we didn't is that one of on we had to relist though because we lost Camo and >> like one sure one of the projects >> double check >> one of the projects we reposted it and >> that was your fields >> that was the fields was it just one >> book I mean >> didn't he miss more than one then sorry I didn't mean to do that >> he's coming next

218week you are the one who's coming next >> No but I meant like >> yeah he can't >> was there only was there only one that he >> he's not going to be able to vote in the one >> yeah because he missed there were too many me or he only missed the one Right. Uh >> you can participate in all. >> Yeah, they can discuss but they can't vote >> what >> and well Angel can't vote on the Y. >> It's not she's not No, she it's she's not a person in the five person board. You can vote on the why >> because it >> I am pretty sure because it we restart we republished it. I think we reposted it and you >> It was the field that was reposted, not >> Well,

219I I think I think Paul missed one meeting and then he watched it on the tape. >> It's one. You're fine. >> There's There's no way we would You're fine. >> Yeah, I'm I'm pretty sure that >> that we are all fine. I don't want to miss any more, but let's double check these two troublemakers to make sure we're >> I've been at every meeting since I've been elected. >> One more. >> I'm going to try next week really hard. You have to get your vacation. >> Darn it, Scott. >> My pin colada out of the >> So when we're drafting the response, >> you have one for me, too. >> New associate member ask questions. >> Of course. >> Absolutely. >> Or offer suggestions. >> Yes. They just can't vote. >> Participation. No vote.

220>> Associate member has been a very valuable team member once we started >> given her experience. I think she's >> not just not angel but also the ones we have before we had civil engineers who had like amazing input in all our projects. Now, now just so you know, um I I told Ael that we if she wins, we treat the associate member like any other member except obviously they can't vote and she understands that. But given the the time frame, like literally I talked to her Sunday, right? And now she's a member. Um or was it Monday? Might have been Monday. Um that I also said if you cannot be here at all these meetings with this short notice, the only thing she's obligated to do is to be there for the special permit

221application where I will be recusing myself. That's her one and only obligation. But I am hoping obviously that she stays and and um contributes her expertise. But I didn't I was just happy to get someone that could fill my seat. So, there were no other takers. >> Uh I'm just I'm just thrilled. I think I think she's going to be great and give us a a lot of insight and um yeah, and hopefully she will participate in some other things as well. >> All right. So, on that note, I believe we're at the end of our agenda. We're going to post the agenda because next week Veterans Day is a holiday. >> We have to post it bare minimum by Monday. >> Yes. >> No, we don't have minutes for the 13th. >> On the

222agenda. >> Yeah, we didn't receive Usually we received them like by Monday, but we just didn't this time. >> Motion to unless there's something else. >> Is it 10:21 already? No. Let's get out of here. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Roll call vote. Trisha Kendall. I Let's get out of here, man. All right. Thank you everybody.