001[Music] Hello Ashlanders. There's a new podcast in town. It's called The Bad Girls Guide to Town Government. It's of the people, by the people, and for the people. It's an opportunity for citizens to express themselves and their concerns on their own terms. So, for our first show, we have two co-hosts, me, Julie Ardone, and Kate Jersey. And uh we also have a place that we set for Jim Hannah. Uh Jim and I did a cable show called What's Really Going On for six years. Um Jim passed away in 2021, but we wanted to honor him by having a a seat for him. Who knows? >> So I I'm really happy about that. And I also want to thank you to be um one of the first co-hosts on on the show. What I wanted to
002say about Jim when I remember is that he stood up for things he believed in and he encouraged others. And I I think you'll talk a little bit more later about maybe why the podcast is titled Bad Girls Guide to Town Government, but I think we know there's a little bit sometimes if you're speaking up to say something that maybe is against what is being presented, it can be perceived that way. And and I Jim taught us that that was okay. And I remember that sometimes if I have to get up at a meeting and say something I think people aren't going to like, I kind of channel Jim and and and make it okay. And I and I really think it's great that you're honoring him that way. >> Oh, that's great. Um, and
003we're we're we're very uh real time here. And I'm fiddling with my um my little timer. My little timer is not working for some reason. Um, so, uh, we're just going to have to figure that out. It was working earlier. Okay. So, uh, we also want to start with something called upbeat corner. Something that one of us, uh, wants to share that was upbeat in town. Kate, do you want to >> I would because I think everybody knows we're we're we're uh, recording this right after Ashlin Day. And Ashlin Day is a spectacular event for our community that I believe this was year 39. And the original committee that I think many of those people have been since the very first Ashlin Day were going to have a pass on it this year for I
004think various reasons. And it it was um it's important for our community. And so some people rallied, se a couple people in the select board um offered to step up and with some help um school people and I think that really shows the strength of our community that we come together when things need to be done. So no disrespect to the original Ashlin Day committee at all. In fact, they get the honor that we care about it so much we make sure it happens. So it it's great for that group of people to step up. It's great for all the organizations and committees that had part of that day and it was spectacular. So, thank you Ashland. >> That's good to hear. All right. So, we're going to have three main topics today. Uh the
005first one is the reason for the podcast, the meaning of the name, and there is a painting. I'm an artist. I did a painting. we will put it on Facebook or wherever we're need to put it so people can see it. This is also being filmed as a cable show um so you'll be able to see it on the cable show. And our second topic will be the uh overcontrolled ZBA meeting on September 30th and how that ties into giving people a real voice. And then the third is we are going to talk about how people can be co-host because this is set up so that uh people can be a co-host for one, two weeks, three um and then other people can be co-host, people can talk about the issue, concern that keeps them
006up at night. I'm I'm really big on people talking about things that keep them up at night because they'll they'll be they'll be be energetic and they'll feel passionate about it. So, we are and we're just going to it's a conversation so we'll just go back and forth. All right. So, uh, the the reason for this podcast, um, we can both share. Um, I have observed in the p I I think it definitely got worse in co. We used to have a local paper with uh reporters and the reporters came to the meetings and they recorded and then they would interview people maybe people who work for the town uh residents who are in the audience maybe elected officials and that stopped and all we've been having for basically I would say four or five
007years is very onesided information. >> Yeah. I agree and I think it's lamenting you know the death of the fourth estate the newspapers and it's unfortunate to have one voice um the one-sided there's many sides right and you're you're a big proponent of that I've heard you say there's more than two sides and >> when we're only getting one-sided information I think that is a problem for democracy so I think I think this is a great venue to start having people feel like they can have issues discussed and maybe hear some other opinions. >> Yes. And uh another thing whenever people do speak up and I've actually been hearing this for I don't know 20 years um when citizens say things even if they have the actual documentation uh it can be referred to as
008misinformation and it's probably not misinformation if that even exists. Um, when people have different opinions, there's a tendency to label an opinion you don't like, misinformation, and try to discredit it. So, that's another reason we're doing this show, to get the citizens opinions and facts out there. I do a lot of research. I do public records requests and I rarely speak without documentation. Someone told me that a long time ago. Uh I actually have heard uh people who say where the people uh spreading misinformation actually saying things that I know um don't align with the documentation. I have more to say on that, but do you want to speak about misinformation? >> Well, so how does that tie into the bad girls? Because I think people need to know. We know, but we want that
009to be sort of it it's sort of um it's sort of making a joke of that and claiming that, right? That's how I see it, but I might be a little bit off on that interpretation that we we have been labeled bad people for speaking up, right? And I think the the bad girls is claiming that we're okay with that. Jim Jim would honor that, right? >> Yeah. >> Bad girls. >> If bad means speaking up >> and speaking your truth, then we are happy to be bad girls. >> Um and this is bad girls, bad boys, bad everybody, whatever. Um >> so, and I can I just read um in honor of Jane Goodall because I I came across this quote. It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why
010there are so many of us. And I think that fits perfectly like with someone also that would speak truth. >> Yeah. I majored in anthropology and Jane Goodall was one of the uh people that we studied a lot and so it it's just really cool to be reconnected with her. Um so I also want to talk too about um our town hall is very uh pro self-promotional out group promotional I don't know what you want to call it um and they're always seen to be posting things and this and that and people get even the local paper the little paper people get a heavy dose of what our town hall thinks >> which is okay. So we can say I think there are some positive sides of that. Okay. >> In that people like to
011be hearing what's going on. So I I will say I think there are some positive aspects to that instead of being silent. And where I think I do think things are missing is that it often is simply one-sided and maybe a citizen's perspective needs to be part of the conversation, which is why I'm excited about this podcast. >> Yeah. I mean, we we really hate it. Um, and I want to talk about too, you know, a lot of times, uh, we're, you know, labeled as misinforming, but trying to get information in this town, even with public records requests, is is very difficult. I mean, you've got to you've got to be an extremely patient, persistent person. Sometimes you've got to ask for it multiple times. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to go to the state and
012>> so why why do why do you think that is like that's interesting and are we the only town like that which which doesn't make it right. I just I I think we do need to get to the bottom of that. >> Yeah. Um well I I can't say for sure. I imagine it happens in different towns. the degree to which it happens. Um, I do sometimes, this is really almost pathetic, but I sometimes go to another town to get information from this town because I know it's easier. >> Interesting. Um, I I did a public records request recently and I was told, well, I was given information, but you can't download it. I mean, this happens. I think it happened the last time. You You can't download it. It's an Excel spreadsheet. So you've
013got to go back and then ask again for the real live document to be um put up there. So I I don't understand >> and and some of that may be so that particular thing I say could be technology and everything changes and like okay now your computer isn't compatible or you know those could be streamlined though and saying this is the proper format and protocol to ask for things right so we >> we could ask citizens saying what's the best way to facilitate these requests >> um >> making that so That's an interesting thing. And th those maybe are issues to be discussed. >> Yeah. I mean, and it does feed into you need to be persistent. >> You need to be persistent. I found that. And I I I think it almost I
014kind of joke around, but I maybe that is sort of that's our training for citizens, be persistent. And maybe the training is for >> um town hall employees sort of like if they're not serious, they go away. And maybe maybe in some way that's an okay way to be. I I find that a little hard to believe, but >> if we get the word out, be persistent, that's okay. We just know that and we train people. That's part of Bad Girls Guide to Town Government. Yeah. >> Be persistent would be rule number one. >> You know what? We need you to start a list of bad girls. Y So, I'm going to say bad girls are persistent. And I'm going to reiterate, Julie, like I love that it's bad girls, but we are absolutely all
015genders here. >> Yes, we are all genders. >> You do. If you're male, you do have to be a bad girl, just like women often have to go under men, but we absolutely want >> Yeah. >> all genders included, >> right? Um I I have my own quote. Um I think you read it. I I wrote an essay called You Can Quote Me and it was about my own quotes being valid. And as I've gone through life, one of my favorite self quotes is life is an endurance test. >> And I know that. So I take that little quote with me wherever I go. Because if you give up, you lose. And if you just stay the course, even if it takes three, four, five times longer than you thought it would, you will eventually
016get where you need to go. Um, okay. So, our next topic is All right. Um, it was the the ZBA meeting on September 30th. >> So, Board of Appeals. >> Yeah. Zoning Board of Appeals. Um, and that was about getting information from DP and uh EPA staffers uh for the mill site on in the downtown. And from the beginning um I maybe okay I thought it was very bizarre setup where the people were not allowed like in a normal meeting every other meeting I've been to in 28 years where you get up to the mic and you ask your question. It was you had to presubmit your questions and that was very strange. So, and then we sent them to the town planner and then we're supposed to CC the town manager and assistant or
017something like that. Um, so I felt the meeting was what I call an epic fail. >> So I now the first part I hear you, but I might I think I was not quite as the same mindset. I was like, they're experts. They want these questions to come well prepared. I I could sort of get my head around that. the epic fail. I 100% agree because that is not how that meeting rolled. Um the all the questions weren't asked, all the questions weren't answered. The experts that were there said they didn't really have enough time to see the questions. I do not know >> I do not know how that happened. And I um in fact, I brought the piece of paper that was on on the uh chairs at the meeting. If you're I'm
018not sure if you were probably you didn't get this if you're watching it remote, but um >> yeah, you had to be sitting there. >> As part of our effort to ensure that today's discussion is thorough, productive, and focused, we previously invited residents to submit their questions and comments in advance. This gave our agency representatives the necessary time to provide thoughtful, informed responses. We appreciate everyone who took the time to submit their feedback and questions ahead of time and we believe this approach will help ensure a more comprehensive and accurate discussion of the environmental and considerations at hand. So I do not believe that happened. I know I had questions that were not answered. They were um a sort of curated version that maybe were covered. And I think there's ways that that could have
019been handled that I I in fact asked that every resident question be available as a handout. And if they were going to bucket and say I think resident submitted questions 1, seven, and eight are covered by the way I'm phrasing this, I think that would have potentially been appropriate to manage the meeting. Um, and so you and I have had a conversation. We're left like, "Are our questions getting answered when? How? How are we going to know they're answered?" And I mean, >> I know this is going to sound funny, but like I was sitting at that meeting and I I thought we were maybe being pranked, but I knew that couldn't be true at a town government meeting. >> Oh, Alan F. wasn't that his name, Alan Font. >> I honestly sat there and
020I was like, "Are are we being pranked?" like there's this room full of people and all these people online and nothing that was supposed to happen was happening and how are we just sitting here? It was if you well if you were online or or you were in the audience it was it was almost surreal to be sitting there uh basically for all intents and purposes we the people were musled like no one could say anything. I couldn't hear anything. I actually had to stand up and say, "Can you can people please speak?" Because I I couldn't not only was I muzzled, but I I couldn't even hear what was being said. Um, and it just it it just felt so utterly undemocratic because we were invited down under the the pretense of it would
021be transparent, engaging, informative, and I would say it didn't hit any of those things. It was absolutely not engaging. And I I don't This is one of those why with a giant question card after it. >> Uh why would anyone want to run a meeting like that? I mean the I I kept hearing oh we have to be respectful of people's time. What about our time? I mean, we came down there and I was just and then that document that you just read from I've got my own and you know I I since my questions weren't even remotely uh broached. So I guess I'm going to take the two questions I submitted and then resubmit them. And it was it was a little distressful for me because I wanted an email that was mentioned at
022a previous ZBA meeting to ask my question. Again, getting the documentation so I'm not misinforming and what I had to go through. Life is an endurance test part 17. What I had to go through to get that email. So then I do get the email and it was not easy and then I formulate this question and then it doesn't even get asked and it almost felt like a slap like a slap in the face and I I I don't know if this sort of meeting attempted again. Well, am I being ridiculously hopefully optimistic that we will get answers and this will be corrected? I mean, I I I do want to hope that the public will get what was promised. And I think possibly the other thing going on is that I I remember there
023was a meeting starting out the ZBA preba but about the 40B and >> I know from coming here as a resident because we've met a lot of townies that I said this is Nyanza is a wound on our community and if you forget that this is what happens >> you it's not going to go away and you need to hear from people you need to hear from people they need their questions answered. It doesn't matter if you don't think they're important. Not you, Julie Ardone. You, anyone, >> right? >> The people need to be heard and they need to have answers, right? On this issue, probably utmost of anything, right, in our town. >> Yeah. >> So, I I think that wound is really going to continue a wound anyway. Um, but ignoring it doesn't
024make it go away. So, I I was really really disappointed. I was really really frustrated. I think anyone we've talked to felt the same. >> So I but I I think I guess I'm so naive that I think it will be corrected. >> Well, um I don't know. I haven't heard that it's going to be corrected. I maybe it it'll be announced or maybe it has been announced that will be corrected. I feel the only way to really correct it is to hold a real meeting that is transparent, engaging, and informative. >> And what really concerns me is people talk about engagement all the time. >> Yet the things that one would do if they wanted to engage people are like not being done. They're like doing the opposite. Um, and it's I don't know.
025I think too I think bad girls would either set up their own meeting with the EPA, DEB. I did write to the select board after the meeting and one of my ideas was, you know, to have an actual meeting. Uh, and not only that, the the people from the state, they came out, they drove all the way out here, and then it was 30 minutes, but the first 10, they were talking about stuff we knew about. And then the consultant of the developer was up there. And I think maybe they answered, well, tried to answer questions for not even 15 minutes. So, they drove all the way out here. We drove down there. people were online and it's like I don't know I think if you have a I think our town hall has to
026care about us care about what we think they seem to be cared about care about a lot of people but not the people that actually live here so um maybe maybe the podcast people will listen to the podcast and say hey let's get a meeting or we figure out >> so I I like that I Bad girls have their own community meetings. And >> oh my god, I love that. >> And bad girls have their own community meetings. >> And and I I've heard that from lots of people and and that has had things have worked, right? I was um part of the group that helped start the community garden. >> Y >> town hall did not want that community garden. We know that, right? And that's amazing. And it's lasted more than 10 years
027now and it's awesome, right? So that's an example. Bad girls have their own community meetings. >> Awesome. Yeah. Um, bad girls just bad girls are active. They just step up and do what they need to do to get the Bad girls get things done. >> Yes. >> Oh my god. This might turn into a book. >> Yes. >> Bad girls get things done. Uh, I think uh, well, if you're listening to the podcast, you can't see the painting, but I think it would make an awesome t-shirt. Um, cards like it was suggested. >> Calling cards, >> little calling cards, and it's I don't know. It's fun. So, again, I apologize. My little timer doesn't work. >> So, I think we should move on to number three. Mhm. >> So, number three is more information on
028being a co-host, our contact information. Um, so, as we said earlier, it it's called Bad Girls, but it's for everybody. Um, whatever your gender is. Um, we would like you to think about if you want to join us as a co-host in the future. We may even have I think you you suggested even having three people. >> Uh what maybe a format is like a co-host for a couple shows, but you could come back. So, it's sort of that rotating. And I I think that's a great um a great idea for co-hosts that um you have a way to get a message out if you want contact Julie to uh have your ideas get a voice. I think that's perfect. and say something else about that. No, >> one thing I was thinking too when
029we were putting this together is that these are opportunities to get up and say what you need to say. I think there's some fear, a lot of people have some fear around that kind of stuff. And I think this would be a good opportunity, which is why I get up at every town meeting primarily because I can. And it's it just helps you stay comfortable talking in front of groups of people. I could talk in front of a million people. I mean, it wouldn't bother me. Um, I've done karaoke in front of probably thousands of people. And so you can be a co-host with something that you want to discuss. You know, maybe we can make it happen, maybe not, but at least it'll be out there in the ether. Um, and you can come
030back. Uh, it doesn't have to be thing. In fact, I think it would be awesome to have people they could have two meetings or come back later. Um, so and I love that you we had talked that it's it's a conversation. So I'm proud and honored to be conversation one and and when you're a co-host there would be conversation you'll continue a numbering >> as podcasts do I think. So, um, I would highly recommend that you get in touch with the bad girls at Bad Girls Ashlin atgmail.com and I think that will be showing up if it's on wacka. >> Yes. >> To be a co-host. I strongly encourage it. >> Yeah. Um, and I I love the idea of just having a conversation like you might have in your kitchen or on the telephone.
031And I'm a real advocate of inperson somehow, even if it's if it's the phone, to me, that's still semianerson. Um, you know, the internet's great, but I I I feel people need to be talking together and conversing and just expressing themselves >> at the information parlor, >> right? Oh, did we? You did mention that, but >> I just want to reiterate that this is an information parlor. Yes. >> Where we're going to share what we find >> and share it with each other. So, uh, I want to thank everybody for listening to the first conversation of the bad girls guide to town government and we will see you probably in another two or >> before town meeting. We're gonna have another conversation. And uh thank you. >> Thank you WACA TV. [Music]